Mr. Speaker, I ask your leave to make a personal explanation.

In the debate on the Vote of the hon. the Prime Minister I mentioned the matter of the $10 million that went to Switzerland in 1974 and came back a few months later. When the hon. the Prime Minister replied to his Vote on 20 April he quoted from the letter he had written to the hon. member for Durban North, as follows (Hansard, col. 4620)—

When I returned to the subject on 23 April I said, inter alia, the following (Hansard, col. 4677)—

It was late at night, as the hon. the Prime Minister said, and the members were tired. It would therefore be quite understandable if one somewhat misunderstood what an hon. member said. However, at the point when the hon. the Prime Minister said: “That is an outright lie!” nothing of that kind had been said at all by the hon. member for Durban North. It is true that a few minutes later he said (Hansard, 8 December 1978, col. 421)—

A few days, ago someone pointed out to me that the above statement I made was not correct. I then went back and once again read the Hansard of the short session and found (Friday, 8 December, col. 420) that the word “shuttling” had in fact been used by the hon. member for Durban North shortly before the hon. the Prime Minister interjected.

The argument I advanced in the above quotation, from columns 4677 and 4678, was therefore based on an error and is unfair towards the hon. the Prime Minister. I have apologized in writing to the hon. the Prime Minister, and I am making this statement in order to rectify the matter in this House as well.

Mr. Chairman, in the very limited time at my disposal I should like to put a number of questions to the hon. the Minister. The first question concerns the whole situation about the co-operation in water matters with our neighbouring State Lesotho. I understand that South Africa and Lesotho are exploring a major water supply agreement which, it is said, could double the present capacity of the Vaal River system. That system is, of course, the main source of water supply for the most important industrial centre in South Africa, namely the Vaal Triangle.

I understand that a joint technical committee has been investigating a projected plan to direct between 750 million and 1 000 million cubic metres of water a year from the Orange River tributaries in the Lesotho mountains to the Vaal River, at an estimated cost of between R80 million and R100 million. The benefit to Lesotho of this scheme will evidently be a hydro-electric power scheme plus earnings from the sale of water. I have taken this information from Press reports and do not know what the truth of the matter is. So I hope that the hon. the Minister will comment on it.

This scheme is obviously of tremendous interest to us all, in particular to the Vaal Triangle itself. This area is threatened right now with water restrictions after the particularly severe drought conditions which existed this year. The Vaal Triangle is probably the area contributing most to South Africa’s economic prosperity and threats of water restrictions to this area—after only one year of drought—are therefore particularly alarming.

According to the Vote and the documents themselves, the aim of the Department of Water Affairs is the adequate supply of water and its beneficial utilization. These aims are very praiseworthy indeed. We have spent, and are spending, a tremendous amount of money on the Tugela-Vaal scheme in the hopes of improving the Vaal River supply to ensure that supplies are regular. The Sterkfontein Dam, the Drakensberg pump storage scheme and the pipelines are all far advanced, and yet we are still in trouble after only one year of drought From experience we know that drought years tend to come one after another rather than in isolation and that it is better to be safe in anticipation of further hard years than sorry. However, the fact remains that after all the steps that have been taken to better the supply position, we again find ourselves threatened this year.

I accept that the drought in the Vaal catchment area has been the worst for over 50 years, in some areas the worst for as long as records have been kept. However, obviously we cannot allow our most important industrial area to be subject to this sort of threat. Everything possible must be done to rectify the situation. This is why a possible agreement with the Government of Lesotho is so interesting to all of us. It is vital to the well-being of South Africa’s most developed industrial area.

I also think that it is important that the hon. the Minister tells us what he regards as the priority list when it comes to the use of available water from the Vaal River. This should be based on maximum return from each cubic metre of water, expressed in economic terms. Much of the water used for irrigation schemes further down the river, has relatively small economic returns, and I believe that if necessary priority should be given to projects more vital to the economy of a country. Those who are dependent on the irrigation schemes further down the river, must, if necessary, be compensated by the Government. The water must be used in the most beneficial way economically that it can possible be used.

Regrettably, the home gardener in the Vaal Triangle is always last in line when he attempts to improve his quality of life by growing a flower garden or a vegetable garden. Millions of rands are invested by city dwellers each year in beautifying their surroundings or growing vegetables for the family table. Water restrictions are hard on these people, and one can only hope that the time will come when that will no longer be necessary.

I must say that it is extremely disappointing that, after all the money spent so far, restrictions are still almost inevitable. I wonder whether in view of the economic importance of the area, greater priority should not have been given in the past to schemes to improve the Vaal supply. I should like to hear the hon. the Minister’s comments on the Lesotho scheme. I should be most interested to know, if he could tell us, of any progress which have been made. Perhaps he could give us a time scale for what appears to me to be a very exciting development. It might yet be early days, but it is of such tremendous importance that we would appreciate anything that he may have to say about it.

When it comes to negotiations with neighbouring States, I return to the hardy annual in this debate. In reply to a question that I put to the hon. the Minister earlier in this session, he said that the Pongolapoort Dam was still only 12% full and that protracted negotiations with the Government of Swaziland were still continuing. I paid a visit to the dam towards the end of last year, and I must say that it was a most depressing experience. That beautiful dam was virtually empty, serving no purpose, with minor canal works below it from disuse overgrown with grass. It was heart-breaking to see it. We are therefore asking the hon. the Minister to give us, what has now become his annual report on it. I can only urge him to try to bring these years and years of negotiations to an end and start the business of bringing water to the Makatini Flats. And not only the Makatini Flats, but many other homeland areas are in urgent need of water supplies. According to the annual report of the department the interdepartmental committee, of which the Secretary for Water Affairs is the chairman, dealing with the division of water between the Black States and the remainder of the Republic, has completed most of the necessary processing and it is expected that it will report to the hon. the Minister during the next year. On page 60 of the annual report the comment is made that considerable attention was paid to the problem of the division of the water resources of the international rivers between South Africa and its neighbouring States. Anybody who is in his right mind must accept that with regard to water resources the area comprising South Africa should be considered as one. It should be regarded as such when planning a water policy. All Black States, whether independent or not, are part and parcel of that area. It must be seen as a whole when considering our water resources. For example, over-grazing and the resultant soil erosion in one area can severely affect another area. Whatever the patchwork quilt of the political map of South Africa, water usage in any one area affects the remaining areas.

I have examined with interest the excellent White Papers on schemes such as the South Ndebele Government regional water distribution scheme and the Lesaka Government water distribution scheme. Both schemes propose to supply domestic or industrial water to homeland areas, which are much needed. But there is no doubt at all in my mind that even if this is a social service and may not economically be as attractive as other schemes, a degree of priority must be given to the supply of water for agricultural use to many homeland areas that are at present in a desperate situation.

I have questioned the hon. the Minister on schemes for water for agricultural developments in the Ciskei to enable the inhabitants to farm more intensively in order to supply food for an area that is depressed and hungry at the moment I should appreciate it if the hon. the Minister would explain his policy in respect of the homelands. He once told us that water from the Orange River scheme going down the Fish River was, in effect, water for White South Africa and that the Ciskei had its own resources. I found this somewhat strange, in view of the fact that the origins of the water that come down the Orange River system is located in Lesotho. I would say that water developments in the homelands appear to be low on the priority list, but I will listen to the hon. the Minister’s comments on this with great interest.

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Orange Grove mentioned a number of very topical matters to which I, too, want to refer briefly. The hon. member mentioned the development of the water resources of the Lesotho plateau, and I want to associate myself with his standpoint if the hon. the Minister and his department can succeed in making such a scheme a reality. This is a possible water resource which could be utilized very advantageously by South Africa as well as Lesotho.

The hon. member referred to the growing need for water on the Witwatersrand. I am of the opinion that it is precisely in view of the need for water for this industrial complex that we have to emphasize that the supply of water to the Witwatersrand cannot carry on indefinitely and that in the development of that area we have to take into account that the conveyance of water to the Witwatersrand is a costly exercize. I think the time has arrived for us to give more attention than in the past to the decentralization of our industries in South Africa, especially of the type of industry that is export-orientated. A new harbour has been constructed at Richards Bay and there is a need for greater development in the East London corridor. Consequently I think that the time has arrived for not only the Government, but also our industrialists, to reflect and plan very earnestly with a view to the necessity of locating industries in areas where water is more readily, easily and cheaply available.

The hon. member also referred to the problem of the Pongolapoort dam. The hon. the Minister can reply to this himself, but I think this underlines the thought that there is a very great need for co-operation between the States of Southern Africa as far as water planning is concerned. I want to express the hope that the hon. the Minister will also be very successful in his negotiations with Swaziland and Lesotho in this regard.

I should also like to use this opportunity to convey my appreciation to the Secretary of the department, and the department as a whole, for making available the latest report of the Department of Water Affairs. It is a very comprehensive piece of work and contains a lot of interesting and essential information. The Department of Water Affairs, of course, is in the midst of the “storm and stress” of a developing South Africa. In fact, I am sometimes amazed that the Department of Water Affairs is able to succeed at all in keeping up with all the calls—if one can word it in such a way—on it for water supplies. When we develop a new harbour area such as Richards Bay, the Department of Water Affairs has to make haste to arrange the necessary water supplies. When we develop a new harbour at Saldanha Bay, the Department of Water Affairs has to make haste to be there in time with the necessary water supplies. If we develop large coalfields in the Lowveld, the Department of Water Affairs has to be there to make the necessary water available for that development. This is also the case if, for example, we build a new Sasol, or whatever it may be. I want to convey my appreciation for the remarkable way in which the Department of Water Affairs has met these demands over the past years. If one looks at this report, if one hears about all the planning investigations, of all the foundation investigations for works that have to be built, if one looks at the White Papers that have been tabled, at all the draft projects and at the construction of water schemes, one can realize why I say that the Secretary and officials of this department have very definitely made a remarkable contribution to the development of South Africa.

However, if I look at the allocation of funds for this department, I am worried to a certain degree because the allocated funds are so limited and because the increase in funds is not keeping pace with the increasing costs. This year there was an increase of less than 10% in the budget of the Department of Water Affairs, while we know that the cost increases for construction and engineering projects are between 14% and 18% per annum. To us this underlines the fact that this department will of necessity build up an enormous backlog over a number of years. Moreover we have to bear in mind that the tasks of the Department of Water Affairs are becoming more and more difficult because the easy schemes in South Africa have already been built and it will therefore have to initiate the more difficult and more expensive schemes. If we look at the item collection of information and research, we see that there is indeed a reduction in the allocation this year, because this year the amount is R4 603 000 compared to the amount of R5 242 000 of last year. We can only hope that this state of affairs will change in due course so that the Government will once again be able to give sufficient priority to the activities of water affairs and will make the necessary funds available to enable the necessary planning and active construction work to be done. Not only does the Department of Water Affairs find itself in the position that there is a great demand for its services, but also that there is a great demand for its staff. Many of the staff members of the Department of Water Affairs are trained engineers and these are people for whom there is a demand not only in South Africa, but abroad as well. I want to convey my sympathy to the hon. the Minister and the department since they have the task of staffing the department at a time when engineers are constantly being lured away from the department in all kinds of ways and especially by offering them far higher salaries than the salaries for which the Public Service makes provision. We do not have any advice to offer, but we do want to say that it is regrettable that so many of our engineers leave the service of the department, especially after the great trouble the hon. the Minister, his predecessor and the department took to obtain engineers. They actually went out of their way to make provision for the training of more engineers. I hear that during the past year approximately 40 engineers left the service of the department. This is a tremendous loss. Then one feels sorry for the Secretary for Water Affairs and other senior officials who have to keep things going and provide the necessary and key services while they lose some of their best staff members and especially their young engineers who still had a long term of office before them.

When this happens, the concern I feel is this: What is to become of the essential new developments that still have to be planned and provided in future? There are parts of our country that are in fact still undeveloped and of which even the water resources have not yet been developed. In my constituency there is a very important water resource such as the Doring River that still flows quite freely to the sea. I hear that not only in the Aspoort area, but also in the Van Rhynsdorp area there are still several hundred thousand hectares of land available which could be developed if water were made available there. In the Lower Orange relatively little has been done. Even among the Coloured community there are responsible people who are asking when a water supply and agricultural development scheme is going to be made available to them. I see in the report that the possibility of a water supply in the Koeboes area in the Richtersveld has been investigated. I am merely pointing out these facts to indicate that there are still areas in South Africa that are undeveloped and that have possibilities. The question is: How can the department get round to them when its engineers are constantly being lured away? [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I want to agree whole-heartedly with, and associate myself with the hon. member for Piketberg who indicated how important this department is. I even want to say that it is a pity that one only has ten minutes at one’s disposal to speak about this fine department and its activities. It is true that the arteries of the department are situated throughout our country. When one travels through our country, one sees new towns being established, as well as new industrial developments and new farming and irrigation projects. Then one realizes that once again it is file Department of Water Affairs with its life-giving water that is involved. The hon. member for Piketberg also referred to the fine annual report with all the data it contains. I have here in my hand an annual report of the department when it was still the Department of Irrigation. This is the annual report for the year 1934-’35. It is therefore 45 years old. I now want to confine myself to a very important project in my own constituency. In that year a start was made with the building of the Vaal Dam. The annual report of that year reads as follows (p. 33)—

The report is referring to the Vaal Dam here—

It is interesting to note that planning is at present being carried out—it is set out in the White Paper—to raise the wall of the Vaal Dam. It is interesting to note that the original cost of the Vaal Dam was £900 000, less than R2 million. In contrast to this improvements to an amount of R24 600 000 are now being planned. This is an astonishing fact, if one notes how it all began and what is now being envisaged. In the meantime, the dam was also raised in the ’fifties at a cost of a few million rand. This indicates how the department has rendered essential services from the very beginning. I quote once again from the annual report of 1935—

Hon. members know that this report was published during the depression years when employment was scarce—

I quoted this to indicate—it is not known to many people—that this department has even done welfare work among our people. That is my part of the country, I grew up there. In those years I was a little boy of five or six years. I know that during those depression years some of the highly qualified people in our country were among those hundreds of labourers, even advocates and attorneys, who did manual labour because employment was unavailable. This department then started this fine project. Further on in the report it is stated how the department made provision for entertainment and welfare services. I quote—

We can understand this, because these people did manual work They worked with pickaxes and spades and wheelbarrows and therefore they were just too physically tired to attend evening classes as well.

I want to come to what I regard as a possible future project to which the department will have to start giving attention. I want to regard as a new industry, an industry which could mean a great deal for the future of South Africa. I have discussed this in the past and I think it is becoming more and more essential for the hon. the Minister and his department to give attention to this possibility. The total surface area of the Republic of South Africa is 122 million hectare. Dams occupy 980 000 ha. That is the figure for 1974. I think we could safely say that more than a million ha is at present under water in the Republic. In 1974 the 60 biggest Government dams consisted of 177 000 ha water. I think we could safely say that with the new dams that have been added, such as the P. K. le Roux Dam and with the increased capacity of other existing dams, for example the Sterkfontein Dam, the Tzaneen Dam and the Boskop Dam, these 60 Government dams will now have a surface area of at least between 80 000 and 190 000 ha.

Experts say that 3 000 kg fish per ha of water can be produced annually. I think it is necessary for the department to examine this possible by-product for the future. The potential of the Government dams is, therefore, 570 million kg fish annually. Furthermore I have been informed that one can rely on a minimum price of 50 cents per kilogramme. I am now speaking of the distant future, because it will take many years to establish and develop this project. If this existing water can be fully utilized in future, for the fish industry, even if it is only in 10, 15 or 20 years’ time, it means, at the present area under water and at the present price of fish, an additional income of R285 million annually for the State. This is also a good future possibility for our farmers. A farmer with a 4 ha dam could, according to this calculation and these figures, produce 12 000 kg fish annually, and at the present price this would give him an annual income of R6 000.

I therefore want to ask in all earnest whether the hon. the Minister and his department cannot consider allocating in their future estimates an amount of say R2 million for the necessary research into and planning of this possible subsidiary industry of the department for the future. All of us read and hear from time to time how the world population is increasing at a tremendous rate and at the same time we read of famines in various parts of the world that are spreading further. Bearing in mind the possibility of this essential protein food, I think South Africa will in future provide the necessary food, not only to our country, but also to our neighbouring States.

Mr. Chairman, I want to congratulate the hon. member for Meyerton on his very stimulating speech and I am sure that the hon. the Minister and his department will give attention to the suggestions he made in connection with fish breeding in our dams.

Everyone knows that fuel is scarce today and that it has to be used sparingly, but another fluid which is of as great strategic value for our future economic development, is water. A shortage of water can impede our economy just as much as a shortage of fuel.

That is why I want to draw the attention of the committee to the Vaal River, the vital artery of South Africa. The Vaal River rises 30 km from my beautiful town, Ermelo, and runs into the Orange River near Prieska. On the way to Prieska the river and its tributaries supply a vast area with vital water, inter alia, the whole Pretoria/Witwatersrand/Vereeniging area, the Free State Goldfields, Kimberley and up to the other side of Postmasburg.

But the demands on the Vaal River’s water are steadily increasing. Since the late ’forties, industrial development in its catchment area has increased so phenomenally that it has become the giant axis around which the economy of our country revolves. 60% of the Republic’s industries and 30% of its total White population are based in the Pretoria/Witwatersrand/Vereeniging area alone. The result has been that industries and the urban population have become the biggest consumers of the Vaal River’s water, instead of irrigation for agricultural purposes. As the needs of these two categories of water consumers increased, it very soon became clear that the Vaal River could no longer meet the demands. Consequently other water resources had to be harnessed to supplement the quantity of water in the Vaal River. We know that the Tugela River had to provide additional water and the Usutu River in my constituency, too, had to assist.

At first glance, the anticipated water requirements in the catchment area of the Vaal River are cause for grave concern, because it is estimated that the total water requirements in the area served by the river from the Grootdraai Dam in Standerton up to its confluence with the Orange River, will double by the year 2000. It is also an interesting fact that 77% of all the water in the Vaal River will have to be used for urban and industrial consumption in the year 2000. On the other hand, one has to determine the total, real capacity of the water resources of the Vaal River. In the report of the Secretary for Water Affairs and in other publications of the department one finds that after the completion of the already approved waterworks, and when the whole system is functioning and has come into operation, the total net constant supply from the river between the years 1985 and 1990 will be insufficient to meet the demand for water. Of course the seriousness of such a situation cannot be over-emphasized. The obvious solution is to develop further water resources and link them up with the Vaal River system. The department is already giving serious attention to this.

I just want to point out that my part of the world is blessed with many water resources. The water from the rivers of the south-eastern Transvaal is not only helping to provide the Vaal River with additional water, but is also supplying Escom’s eight power stations on the Eastern Highveld. However, there is still a great deal of water available, for example in the Mpuluzi, the Nqwempisi, the Hlelo and the Assegai rivers in my part of the world.

Another solution for the water requirements of the Vaal River catchment area is to suppress further growth in the PWV area and rather to stimulate industrial development in areas situated nearer the water resources. In this regard I should like to associate myself with the hon. member for Orange Grove, as well as with the ideas expressed here by the hon. member for Piketberg. I believe that decentralization will not only give new life to many rural areas, but will also save the Department of Water Affairs and the country millions of rands, because then it will be unnecessary to convey water over long distances to the present industrial complexes. I am convinced that our planners should become more aware that the maximum potential of the Vaal River as a water resource will be reached at some stage. Consequently we should always take into account uncertain rainfall and the possibility of long droughts, factors which could make further demands on the water resources of the Vaal River.

The additional establishment of industries which use a great deal of water, as well as of large populations, in areas that would be dependent on the Vaal River’s water, must consequently, in my opinion, be very thoroughly reconsidered. After all, water is going to become increasingly scarce.

Finally, I should like to mention with great appreciation the outstanding work being done, mostly behind the scenes, by the Association for the Vaal River Catchment Area. I believe that body receives too little publicity; less than it deserves. Although this association enjoys very strong support from the Department of Water Affairs, as well as from other Government departments and institutions such as the Water Research Commission, I believe that it is necessary for many more municipalities, agricultural associations, chambers of commerce, industrialists and also private individuals interested in this beautiful area with its fine river, to join this association, so that it can do even better work in the interests of the entire population of the catchment area of this fine river.

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Ermelo spoke about the Vaal River and asked whether the optimum utilization potential of that river had not already been reached. It seems to me that he raised a very valid argument. It is precisely for that reason that water is now being conveyed to the catchment area of the Vaal River. This is a very central issue at the moment, this matter of the conveying of water to densely populated areas that are dependent on the water of a single large river or a few smaller rivers. Future planning, therefore, will have to take place with full consideration of these important factors.

†I should like to raise with the hon. the Minister the question of the Umgeni River. There we are facing the same problem which is facing the Vaal River area. The Umgeni River—I have said this before in this House —is the most important river in Natal. There is no doubt about that. The cities of Pietermaritzburg, Durban, Pinetown, their industrial areas, and the entire Valley of a Thousand Hills with its vast Black population, are all dependent upon that river. Moreover, it is not a big river at all. That river is becoming exploited to the point of almost complete exhaustion. There are certain storage sites. The annual report of the department mentions that a storage site at Inanda is envisaged. There is one more such site which, I think, is called the Gorge site, a site which might be below the Inanda site, if I remember correctly.

If we are going to supplement the sources of the Umgeni River, I believe a great deal of thoughtful planning will have to be put into the whole undertaking. The report also mentions the question of the building of a dam on the Umkomaas River. This will be a very convenient scheme and will supply precious water to the Umgeni River.

The question of building new dams in the Valley of a Thousand Hills will cause the hon. the Minister to face the same situation he faces at the Woodstock Dam. There are areas there of intensive Black settlement. That also involves the problem of moving populations out of the catchment areas of the dams. Now, the Valley of a Thousand Hills, the hon. the Minister should note, includes certain areas where there are fairly steep gorges, and where the question of moving a population, of course, does not apply. However, if we want to make use of that reasonably extensive catchment area, a considerable number of Black families will be involved. I think it is reasonable for us, therefore, to attempt to rationalize the supplies of water in the Umgeni valley, and also the importation of water into that valley, before we start to consider removing families, something which, I believe, development within the Valley of a Thousand Hills is going to require.

For that reason I wish to raise with the hon. the Minister the question of the Umgeni Water Board. I mentioned earlier, in another debate, that I intended to raise the matter here today. I believe the Umgeni Water Board is the key to the planning, not only of the Umgeni River catchment area, but to any peripheral areas which might be exploited in order to bring water into the supply area which now falls under the Umgeni Water Board. The board came into existence more than four years ago, and we remember the debates when the system was introduced. The purpose of the board was to acquire the purification works in all the areas under the control of the board and to supply purified water to municipalities which would then in the normal course of events reticulate that water. That would come under their own administrations and any payments for water would fall to their own account.

In four years the Umgeni Water Board has made really remarkably little progress. I have been in correspondence with the Secretary of the department, and with the hon. the Minister, to ask whether things cannot be hurried up. The intention is that the board should acquire the purification works. I am referring to the municipality of Howick, where I live, the municipality of Femcliff, the new purification works at Pietermaritzburg and the purification works in Durban. However, there are the vested interests of the municipalities concerned, and these the board quite obviously is going to have to buy out I think the problem arises when negotiations take place between a board, which is established in terms of the legislation, and some considerably more powerful organizations like the municipalities of Durban and Pietermaritzburg. To me the problem appears to be that the negotiations have to take place on the basis of whether the board is entitled to acquire the assets of the municipalities at their historic value, in other words at their written-down value. In the case of the Shongweni Dam this cannot really be a considerable amount of money today. It also involves the question of whether replacement costs should be considered, or what, in fact, the value is of the interest of the municipalities concerned, how one is to quantify this and on what basis the department negotiates with the municipalities to take over these schemes.

The problem quite obviously is that in some of the cases the schemes were built a considerable number of years ago and are quite profitable to the municipalities. The money has, in certain cases, been used for reducing rates. Therefore it is not merely a matter of going along to the municipalities, telling them that one want to take over their water supplies and handing the money to them. There are the vested interests of the municipalities involved as well.

However, I think that the problem goes further than that I can mention the instance of the Greater Durban area. The Inanda Dam, as mentioned in the department’s report, is something, as I understand the situation—I may be wrong, and if so I hope that the hon. the Minister will put me right—which has been asked for and planned by the Durban Municipal Department of Water Affairs or whatever it is. It will come under their control and will then be part of the system of water supply for the municipality of Durban. There is also the question of the introduction of water into the northern areas of Durban from the Hazelmere Dam. This dam is situated a little to the north of Durban. It might be necessary to introduce water from the Inanda Dam in order to augment the supplies of Durban so that the Indian areas to the north of Durban can be supplied with purified water. Today the Hazelmere Dam has purification works which supply water considerably in excess of the requirements we foresee as necessary for that area for a considerable number of years. The question that arises is therefore whether it is not more reasonable and sensible to allow that water to be taken into the area of the Umgeni Water Board’s supply to supply the Indian areas such as Phoenix and the other growing areas—and they are going to grow very rapidly—to the north of Durban. What one does not want is a rationalization of the planning in that area. A dam the size of the Inanda Dam might be something one could build in a number of years’ time or some other time in the future. The immediate augmentation of the area to the north of Durban can be achieved, however, by allowing the water board to take over the water supplied by the Hazelmere Dam, which is obviously, as I have said, in excess of what that area is going to require. I think that the water board should be encouraged, allowed, in fact spurred on to take over all the facilities which are available for supplying purified water in the Durban/Pietermaritzburg area and the area of the Umgeni River. I understand there may well be some very tricky negotiations involved. The board, as far as I know, has been pressing to be allowed to go ahead with this scheme. I do not think there is any real objection on the part of the municipalities concerned. There is no reason why there should be because they will simply be reticulating the water and the supply of purified water will be something which is taken off their shoulders. There is, however, a problem where they have vested interests and where the more profitable elements in their water system are now in danger of being taken over. I should be interested to know from the hon. the Minister what stage has been reached.

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Mooi River confined himself for the most part to local matters in Natal in connection with the Umgeni Water Board and the slow progress in the negotiations with the municipality. Consequently I shall not follow him in his argument.

I should like to avail myself of this opportunity to congratulate the hon. the Minister, Dr. Kriel, the Secretary for Water Affairs and his officials on the sound annual report they have again published. It is significant and encouraging that great care has been taken to ensure accuracy in the department’s reports. I want to congratulate the department on this, and I also want to thank them for the very clear definitions and explanatory notes in the White Papers we have received.

Water means life. There is hardly an industry in present-day civilization that could function without adequate water. In our modem households the increase in the consumption of water is virtually synonymous with an increase in the standard of living. Water is indispensable to the mining industry. Water is essential for many processes in industry. In agriculture, water has to meet vital primary needs: Water for men and for animals. An increasing amount of water is being consumed by cultivation practices in agriculture aimed at producing better harvests. Many crops in parts of South Africa can only be cultivated by means of irrigation. During the past few years increasing use has been made of supplementary irrigation to increase harvest yield.

It is essential for South Africa to become self-sufficient under all circumstances in respect of food production. Since it is of strategic importance to South Africa to be self-sufficient, production costs in the field of self-sufficiency should be kept as low as possible. In this regard the cost of available irrigation water will play an increasing role in future.

In the past the situation of our country’s major industrial areas have for the most part been determined on the basis of considerations other than easy access to water supplies. With the rapid growth of the industrial and mining areas, water had to be conveyed over long distances. As far as the future is concerned, greater and greater quantities of water will have to be conveyed over greater and greater distances for the development of those industries. The demand for water for industrial development is going to increase, and I believe that in a short space of time the stage will be reached when the demand for water for industrial development will exceed that for agricultural purposes.

At the present rate of increase in water consumption, South Africa will consume all its available water within 21 years. This situation can be overcome if we can succeed in utilizing water more effectively, if we can revise the erroneous ideas relating to our available resources, realize at once the gravity of the situation and ensure that the necessary funds are appropriated in time for the necessary, urgent research and development of our water resources. The necessary skills in the department must be increased and the available skilled staff at present in the department must be retained, because without thorough research and planning the progress of our country can be seriously impeded by water shortages. With the present rate of increase in water consumption it can be expected that expenditure on water supplies will continue to increase. In many cases the best and most economic projects have already been completed. Moreover, some water resources have already been fully developed. Consequently additional water will have to be conveyed over increasing distances. The future consumption of water will be influenced by the increase in the numbers and the rise in the standard of living of the Black and Brown peoples in particular, and by the increase in irrigation requirements, industrial development, mining activities and the urbanization of our population.

Large schemes cannot be built at short notice. The construction of large schemes usually takes between five and ten years, or even longer. Consequently they cannot simply be provided all at once when the need for water arises. Owing to rising costs, and the need for water projects to be of increasing scope to meet the steady increase in demand, the unit costs to develop new resources are becoming increasingly expensive. There is not much one can do about this, but a contributing factor is that the period required for the completion of new schemes has to be extended unnecessarily at times owing to the curtailing of funds. In the next budget more generous provision ought to be made for this important, nay, essential department. The budget for last year was R169 639 000. This year the budget is R184 199 000, an increase of 8,7%. But in real terms this means no increase. In other words, as far as available funds are concerned there is therefore a situation of stagnation. With regard to the allocation of funds, the department remains just where it was. In actual fact there is no growth in the allocation of funds. We must ensure that a lack of funds is not the cause of so great a backlog in the supply of water to South Africa that the backlog may perhaps never be overtaken. Research must be carried out timeously, and for that more money is necessary.

Oil has become scarce and expensive, and we shall have to rely increasingly for the generation of electrical power on hydroelectric power in future. The Koeberg station may cost R1 000 million in order to generate 1 800 MW. However, it will meet a great need. It has now become important for Escom to co-operate more closely with the Department of Water Affairs, because in the rivers of South Africa there is a tremendous potential which can be developed. Consequently I do not think that Escom should overlook these lesser possibilities. I do not have time at my disposal to go into this matter in depth. However, I just want to refer briefly to a few of the smaller schemes. There is the Aughrabies Scheme which can supply at least 20 MW. In the Orange-Fish tunnel more than 9 MW can already be supplied, and a further 8 MW can be supplied. The Pongolapoort Scheme can supply 18 MW and the Vaal Dam Scheme, 15 MW. At the Paul Sauer Dam approximately 2 MW is supplied. If one adds the supply from the Verwoerd Dam and the P. K. le Roux Dam, as well as those dams which can still be added, the Orange River, from the Verwoerd Dam up to the Aughrabies alone, can supply 874 MW. We must remember that the generation of power will only comprise a part of the project. The same structure is used by the Department of Water Affairs for irrigation purposes. Consequently it is most essential, for Escom to co-operate more than in the past, with the Department of Water Affairs so that we can utilize all the smaller power stations or places where power stations can be developed, throughout the country. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, it has been rightly said that the available water of a country is the basis on which the economy of the country is built Unfortunately South Africa is one of those countries which does not have inexhaustible water supplies. On the contrary, with our periodic droughts and an exceptionally high percentage of evaporation in the hot dry months, South Africa is exceptionally vulnerable and we shall have to do everything in our power to control unnecessary wastage of water. According to the annual report of the Water Research Commission, South Africa has at present 330 Government and other irrigation schemes. It is estimated that approximately 30% of the products required for the country’s food and clothing requirements is being grown under irrigation by these schemes as well as other smaller schemes. This emphasizes the importance of water for food supply.

I should like to dwell for a moment on a local matter in my constituency, which I want to bring to the hon. the Minister’s attention. It was announced recently that the water supply to the OFS Goldfields Government Water Distribution Scheme is going to be extended. In addition, a White Paper in this regard has been tabled. I am aware that the goldfields periodically experience a shortage of water and that provision has to be made for more water. According to the White Paper, the demand for water in this area will peak in 1985, after which it will gradually drop, depending on the price of gold. Now, it is a fact that new mines are continually being developed and that water has to be supplied to them as well. It is thought that new mines will be developed to the south of the present goldfields. I refer to the Beisa mine being developed 20 km north of Theunissen. Incidentally, this mine is a uranium mine which will produce gold as a byproduct At present this mine gets its water from a balancing dam on the farm Palmietfontein. I note in the White Paper that provision is being made to supply this mine with 4 000 m3 of water per day. All the water for this scheme is drawn from the Allemanskraal Dam. Below this dam there are 5 046 ha of scheduled land forming part of the Sand/Vet Settlement. These irrigation farmers are totally dependent on irrigation water. These are fine, hard-working farmers, but now they are worried. They are concerned that so much water will be allocated to the mines and the industries in future that there will not be enough for irrigation. In addition there is the danger that the present canal conveying water from the Allemanskraal Dam, is not large enough to convey the extra water allocated to the goldfields. I would be pleased if the hon. the Minister could give these farmers the assurance today that their future is not being threatened and that adequate provision will be made in the allocation of the water for their continued existence. After all it is true that when development takes place, a demand for water arises. If water has to be supplied to the industries while at the same time water consumption has to be curbed, there is a danger that it may be irrigation water and not the industrial consumption of water that will be curbed.

It is actually pleasant to be able to discuss water here in a peaceful atmosphere. I do not think there is ever so much unanimity in the committee as when the Water Affairs Vote is being discussed. This is probably the case because the importance of water can never be over-emphasized. Our future resources are limited. Previous speakers have also emphasized this. For that reason we shall have to utilize our water very judiciously in future. Consequently we must educate our people to save water. I am of the opinion that we should begin with our schoolchildren, White as well as non-White. They should be taught that water does not simply come out of a tap which one opens, but that water is caught, stored and distributed at great expense. I think that if we could emphasize the importance of water to the school-going child, we would to a certain extent have achieved something as regards water conservation in the future.

I want to thank the hon. the Minister of Water Affairs and his officials for the thorough work they are doing. With such a team at the head of Water Affairs, I believe that we shall be able to meet South Africa’s water problems in the future. I thank everyone, from the hon. the Minister at the highest level to his officials in the department—there a few thousand of them—down to the man who occupies the humblest office. All of those people are inspired by the work they are doing. I feel that we should pay tribute to them for that spirit which prevails in the Department of Water Affairs.

Mr. Chairman, if one were to relate the by-election in Swellendam to water, one would necessarily call to mind the “dam” of Swellendam. At the same time one thinks of the difference between a soda water bottle and a Prog. On a soda water bottle one gets one’s deposit back! It is interesting to note that the great civilizations of the past developed around rivers. The Tigris and the Euphrates of Mesopotamia, the Nile of Egypt, the Rhine of Europe and others, and in more recent times the Mississippi of North America and the Amazon of Brazil confirm the statement that water is the vital artery of prosperity. South Africa has a meagre and variable rainfall and that is why irrigation is essential for the cultivation of the vast majority of agricultural crops. The run-off of our rivers is relatively slight, also as a result of the meagre rainfall, and as a result of this meagre rainfall we have no subsurface water to speak of in South Africa. It is interesting to note that the average annual run-off of South African rivers is 20 million morgen-feet A portion of this is caused by exceptional flood rains, something which happens relatively seldom and which consequently cannot be economically stored. The origin of another portion is so near to the coast that there are few or no dam areas where this rain could be stored. If we also take into account that the high incidence of sunshine and hot weather causes in South Africa the evaporation of, on average, 22% of all stored water in South Africa, it is estimated that South Africa’s total storable water potential from river runoff is approximately 10 million morgen-feet. It is estimated that South Africa’s subsurface water resources can provide approximately ½ million morgen-feet per annum. This gives us a total of 10½ million morgen-feet per annum.

It is also interesting to note that the total water consumption in 1965, with a population of 18 million, was 3% million morgen-feet. 83% of this was used for irrigation, 1% for stock watering and 16% for industrial and municipal use. Therefore, approximately 33% of South Africa’s total water resources were utilized in 1965. If we project the figures and look at the year 2000, South Africa’s total water consumption, with an estimated population of between 42 million and 45 million, will be approximately 11,17 million morgen-feet Of this, approximately 4,8 million morgen-feet will be utilized for agricultural purposes and 6,3 morgen-feet will be for industrial and municipal use. This indicates that by the year 2000 there will already be a shortage of 2 611 million cubic metres of water.

The vital artery of prosperity in South Africa will gradually become smaller, as the population grows, and more serious consideration will have to be given to ways and means of utilizing water more sparingly and efficiently. This is a repetition of what previous speakers said, but it is so vital for the continued existence of South Africa and all its people. It is against this background that one considers anxiously the loss of water owing to obsolete and sometimes primitive water reticulation systems. In my constituency there are cases of water losses of up to 70% as a result of a lack of proper canal systems to convey irrigation water to farms. One wonders whether the time has not come for an in-depth investigation into the distribution systems of our many existing irrigation dams in an effort to utilize our scarce and often expensive water more sparingly and effectively.

It is also against the background of effective and efficient water utilization that the Rûens area in my constituency is looking forward with gratification to the completion of the Rûensveld rural water supply scheme. This scheme, which will provide household and stock-watering water to altogether 983 farms over a surface area of 677 400 ha, will entail approximately 250 000 km of pipelines. This will end years of struggle for Rûens farmers with water shortages. It will considerably improve the agricultural potential of the region and make a major contribution to the stabilizing of staple food production. The hon. the Minister has my assurance that the people involved are sincerely grateful to him, the department and the Government. In fact, they are looking forward to this so enthusiastically that progress on the scheme could not be rapid enough for their liking. A very big “thank you” and a very sincere “please” to the hon. the Minister for the speedy completion of the scheme.

At present there is concern about the expensive inputs into the agricultural industry, as this contributes largely to the fact that the agriculturalist is having difficulty making his undertaking profitable. The overall cost escalation has caused the building costs of irrigation dams and systems to rise, too, and consequently the price of irrigation water has skyrocketed to such an extent that it is a source of serious concern to the irrigation farmer today. The increased costs mean that improved methods of irrigation have to be applied to increase the yield per morgen in order to counteract the greater expense.

It is true that the agriculturalist is becoming more and more concerned about the possibility of obtaining water, and particularly the use of expensive water. One wonders whether there are not ways and means to reconcile expensive water provision and agricultural costs in some way. Therefore, the question is whether one should not have a much closer relationship in future between escalating agricultural costs and the provision of expensive water.

I want to associate myself with the previous speaker in thanking the hon. the Minister and his department most sincerely for what the Department of Water Affairs and its function have meant for the Swellendam constituency.

Mr. Chairman, it is a great pleasure for me to be able to react at this juncture to the many valuable and informative contributions made by hon. members. In particular I want to thank them very sincerely for their reference to the very good work which the department is doing under difficult circumstances. Firstly I shall refer to certain problems by way of a general survey and I hope subsequently to find the necessary time to be able to reply to the individual pleas which hon. members put forward.

One does not want to become dramatic about water now, but it is necessary for us to pause for a moment to ascertain what water really means to us. Too frequently we accept water as we accept air: It must simply be there, and it must be clean. We know it is of vital importance, but too frequently we think it should be very cheap or should even be available free of charge. The hon. member for Winburg pointed out that when it comes to water there are people who simply want to turn open the taps. If one looks at this Council Chamber, one finds that water is available at whichever entrance one uses. Frequently, when hon. members are making speeches which are rather on the long side, they cannot continue without first having a drink of water. I think it is necessary for us to become aware of the importance of water. When we go on to consider the electricity which keeps the lights here in this House burning, we must also realize that that power is derived from steam turbines, which in their turn need water to keep functioning. Tremendous quantities of water are used for cooling purposes at those turbines.

In our parks, our gardens, on all our plots—everywhere—we are dependent on water. We need water to beautify our gardens and keep our plants growing. We receive purified water for drinking and washing purposes. We turn open our taps, and water is immediately available. We do not always realize that the water which is available here in Cape Town and elsewhere is supplied by the Department of Water Affairs from sources which are becoming remoter as the needs increase. The hon. member for De Aar also referred to this aspect. As water has to be brought from more distant sources, it becomes more expensive. The planning required, the subsequent building of structures, is something which always has to be done in time, otherwise development and growth is curtailed. Some hon. members referred to this, and I want to associate myself with what those hon. members said. Personally I think that the Department of Water Affairs, in spite of staff shortages in almost all of its branches, and in spite of a drastic retrenchment in funds, is performing an excellent task.

Consequently I feel a need to congratulate the Secretary of Water Affairs and his staff on a wonderful achievement in the interests of our country and of its people. Furthermore I should also like to thank Dr. Stander, the chairman, and members of the Water Research Commission. I am delighted that Dr. Stander is present here today. I shall refer again later to some of these people and communicate certain information. All these people are doing important work and are making important contributions to supply us with the water essential for our existence and development.

In spite of everything that has been done, the volume of water in our dams at present is only 64%, as against 90% at the same period last year. This is a matter which causes concern. Early in the next century we shall have to supplement our water resources in order to avert crises. Consequently research has been directed at specific goals. I want to draw the attention of hon. members to the fact that we simply cannot rely only on our natural rainfall and think that after the year 2000 we can simply proceed with development and still be able to meet the needs of our people. The first area in which research is necessary is that of the purification or reclamation of water for re-utilization. In the second place research ought to be carried out into the combating of pollution. In this connection I just want to add that in general hon. members and the public do not always realize that water that has been polluted immediately becomes expensive water. We are able to re-use water, but as pollution increases it is becoming more expensive to purify it again. Many of us do not realize that we can make a contribution and keep water cheap by not contributing unnecessarily to pollution.

Another direction in which research is being carried out is the question of irrigation practices. By far the most water in this country is used for irrigation. It is essential that this should be done. Hon. members indicated that we should arrange our priorities in the correct sequence. However it is difficult, as was pointed out, to take cognizance only of what is the most profitable per cubic metre of water. Agriculture and food provision must be accorded its rightful place. Consequently we shall have to strike a balance in this respect. That is why research is necessary, research on how we can augment our water resources, rather than simply to say that this or that industry should curtail its water consumption. Of course it is very important that every industry should utilize its water as sparingly as possible.

One direction to which we are at present turning our attention is the desalination of sea water. This will be important in future.

Another aspect is rainfall stimulation. In this connection I want to emphasize in general that South Africa is a country poor in water, and thoroughgoing studies of the available water resources and of the demand for water in future have revealed that between the year 2000 and 2020, depending on our general growth rate, the limits of the available conventional water resources will have been reached. In fact, in certain areas development will be restricted far sooner by the lack of sufficient water.

In the case of the Vaal River basin no expansion of irrigation development could be allowed since 1970 because the available water is already being fully utilized. By pumping supplementary water from the Tugela River to the catchment area of the Vaal Dam the position was improved somewhat, but it required heavy expenditure, and that water is too expensive to use for irrigation. The contribution of the Department of Water Affairs to the first two phases of the Tugela/Vaal project will amount to approximately R108 million.

With reference to the question of decentralization—with which I am in full agreement—I just want to mention that we should also realize that the part which water comprises of the cost of a factory product is in general very low. Factories and mines, therefore, can always afford toe far more expensive water than the agricultural sector. So when we say that we cannot pump water from the Tugela River into the Vaal River because the cost factor is too great, we must bear in mind that for an industry, in fact, it is not a large percentage of its total costs. But I agree with the principle, particularly as far as the position in Natal is concerned. Labour and water is available there, and it is not always meaningful to take the labour and water to the Witwatersrand. Hon. members will realize that the economic factors that have to be taken into consideration are very complex. Once economic development takes place and begins to accelerate, it is not easy to counteract.

Build a factory there.

The Government cannot simply establish factories either. The cooperation of the private sector is necessary for that purpose, and the hon. member is aware of that.

The serious drought over large parts of the country in recent times has emphasized once again how important optimum utilization of the available water resources is. It has already been necessary for me to impose water restrictions in respect of water supplies from the Loskop Dam, while water restrictions in respect of the Vaal River and the Rand Water Board supply area have already been announced. In this connection I just want to add that in a detailed statement, which I do not want to repeat here, I have already indicated that from the beginning of June we will impose a 5% restriction. Someone said that this was very tentative. However, I can tell him that it is just as important as it is tentative. If we do not begin to impose water restrictions in time, we are subsequently going to experience major problems, as I explained in the statement. But I want to point out that the 5% restriction was imposed on the consumption of water during the previous year. Normally there is a growth in water consumption—not by the agricultural sector, for along the Vaal River agricultural sector no longer receives any water—but as a result of industrial and human consumption. This growth is also approximately 5% or 6% per annum. Consequently if we impose a 5% restriction in respect of last year, it means in fact that one is not allowing any growth either and that in effect it is therefore a restriction of approximately 10%. I just want to emphasize this, so that we do not refer to this lightly as being very small and not all that important. Each one of us must make our contribution to prevent our incurring greater risks in future. In view of what I have just said, it is not only of the utmost importance that the available water resources be efficiently developed and utilized, but also that the possibilities of augmenting the existing water resources should be examined in depth.

The first aspect which should be examined is weather modification projects. There are indications, based on research carried out in other countries, that under favourable meteorological conditions it ought to be possible to increase rainfall in certain parts of the country by between 10% and 30% and to reduce hail in certain types of thunder storms by up to 60%. However, it will not be possible to achieve these goals without purposeful and intensive research into meteorological conditions and effective cloud-seeding methods. Research should also be carried out to determine the effect of changes in the rainfall on river run-off. It is also obvious that if rainfall can be increased, it will be directly to the benefit of agriculture and forestry.

Next I want to refer to the Bethlehem project. The Weather Bureau launched a research project in the Bethlehem area to investigate the possibility of increasing rainfall by seeding clouds with certain chemicals. The Water Research Commission contributed to the cost of the project. The participation of the Department of Water Affairs in the project consists of research into the determination of an accurate relationship between rainfall and river run-off, thus enabling it to determine the effect of a possible increase in the rainfall on river runoff in the Vaal Dam catchment area. Hon. members will understand how important that is. A number of gauging weirs were built specifically for research purposes in rivers in the area, and detailed maps of soil types, etc., have already been prepared. As a result of the complexity of the meteorological processes and the inconstancy of the rainfall, the project will extend over a number of years, and meaningful results will not be available until five or more years have elapsed.

Apart from this very important project, which we hope will produce favourable results, a hail control project was launched in Nelspruit—in my constituency. Perhaps it is a good thing that such a project should commence in the constituency of a Minister of Water Affairs. If the research project for the seeding of clouds at Bethlehem produces results, the farmers are going to study every cloud that passes every day. Consequently if an aircraft flies past a cloud and it does not rain, the farmers are probably going to say that the aircraft and researchers are meddling with the weather again, and messing up the whole business.

We are experiencing this already.

The hon. member says he is experiencing that already. In my constituency a private organization, the Lowveld Tobacco Co-operative has begun to carry out hail control. I want to dwell on this because it is important to the country. In terms of certain provisions of the Water Act 1956 the department has certain responsibilities in respect of weather modification. In terms of the provisions of Chapter IIIA of the Act, no person may, except on the authority of a permit, deliberately cause any alteration in the precipitation. The permits which are issued may be subject to conditions in respect of the method, equipment and material which may be utilized, as well as in respect of the furnishing of information during and upon completion of the said activities. Until now permits have only been issued to one private firm which is carrying out a hail control project in the Nelspruit area for the Lowveld Tobacco Co-operative Ltd. The permits issued are subject to strict conditions which have to be complied with. As a result of objections to the project which were raised from time, both the Weather Bureau and the Department of Water Affairs made detailed analyses of rainfall records prior and subsequent to the commencement of the hail control project. As in the case of other areas in the Transvaal, for example the catchment areas of the Loskop Dam and the Vaal Dam, the Nelspruit area has also experienced a serious drought during the past season. The analyses showed, however, that there were no indications that the drought in the Nelspruit area had resulted from the hail control activities. I am mentioning this specifically, because if we undertake further research, there is going to be the same reaction. It is perhaps a good thing that an agricultural cooperative is engaged in such activities in my area, the constituency of the Minister himself. This might serve as a lightning conductor and prepare people for the fact that we shall have to do more research of this kind in future, and that people should not be too sceptical of this research and think that these limited activities are responsible for driving away the rain and changing the rain patterns and weather systems.

One matter to which objections are being made is the silver iodide content of rain water. I think I must explain that silver iodide is used for cloud-seeding, and the fear has arisen that it may constitute a health hazard. However, the solubility of this substance is extremely low, and analyses of rain and river water samples carried out by the department have proved that the silver iodide content is far below the permissible content for drinking water and that it definitely presents no danger to human, animal or plant life.

I am also referring specifically to the Nelspruit project because emotional opposition is being experienced there, particularly in periods of drought such as those we are now experiencing and to which I have already referred. In years of heavy rainfall, however, we also had complaints that this activity was responsible for the excessive rainfall which sometimes occurred. I just want to say that personal attacks were made on me as Minister because I had allowed the projects to be carried out and supported the Water Research Commission. I asked the commission whether it could not spend some money and make analyses while a private project was in progress, in order to obtain valuable scientific information. I think it is necessary for State and private organizations to co-operate in this respect; otherwise the State has to duplicate everything, or do work, that has already been done, over again at great expense. I want to content myself with making a very earnest appeal to the public of the Lowveld—it is not only in my constituency that emotions are running high—and to our communities throughout the country to have confidence in our scientists, as I am obliged to do in the interests of the country. I think hon. members will agree with me that we have to have confidence in our scientists because they have to furnish us with guidance and advice. I also want to say that I can only allow myself to be guided by the recommendations of the advisory committee, which has to advise me in accordance with statutory provisions, on the issuing of permits pertaining to this kind of activity.

I think I should also inform hon. members of the organizations that are represented on this committee. They are the Department of Water Affairs, the Weather Bureau, the Department of Agricultural Technical Services, the CSIR, organized agriculture and the Rand Water Board. All these bodies take an intense interest in water. Anyone opposed to the issuing of a permit has to make motivated representations to this committee. I want to point out that the Department of Water Affairs insisted, even before 1970, that research should be carried out into rainfall stimulation. In our country we commenced with research in this direction at a relatively late stage. That is why I welcome the support received from scientists in this connection. To the Department of Water Affairs it is of the utmost importance that this research be continued. In addition I want to point out that if rainfall in the catchment area of the Vaal River can be increased by 20%—this is a figure which has already been achieved in Israel—the annual supply from dams in this area can be increased by 600 million cubic metres. If rain stimulation can be so success fill, schemes such as the raising of the Sterkfontein Dam, the possible Lesotho Highland project and extensions to the Usutu/Vaal scheme at a total estimated cost of R550 million can be postponed for a number of years, with the resultant saving in interest At an interest rate of 10% this would mean a saving of approximately R50 million per annum, and surely it is quite clear that we shall not spend such an amount on research and, after the research has been carried out on active rain stimulation. Fifty million rand is a large amount Yet that is the amount which it will be possible to save in interest alone.

†I want to read to the House extracts from remarks made by an imminent agriculturist, and hon. members must now listen very carefully—

I want to ask hon. members to what country they think the speaker refers. Would any hon. member like to take a guess?

The USA.

It is indeed the USA. However, it could just as well have been South Africa. That is why I quoted this extract to hon. members. It could just as well have been Israel, Australia or any of several African countries. It could also have been one of several South American countries. These remarks were made by Mr. Bergland, Secretary for Agriculture in the USA, during March of this year. Throughout the world these problems are very much the same. We can also learn from other countries. What aggravates the position of South Africa, however, is that we probably have less water to begin with and also have less money available, particularly in comparison with the USA.

I also want to refer to a few other related matters—other hon. members also referred to them— inter alia, the shortage of manpower, especially engineers and technicians. This is a bottleneck in my department. Secondly, there was the retrenchment in funds during recent years which caused a backlog to build up in the Department of Water Affairs as far as future water supplies are concerned. I think the hon. member for De Aar referred to this. I can tell hon. members that this is a matter I have already discussed with the hon. the Minister of Finance. Now that a bit of an upsurge has set in, we hope to be afforded some relief in future. It is essential that this be done. As far as manpower is concerned, I can say that the situation is giving rise to concern and that my department and I, in cooperation with the Public Service Commission, are doing everything possible to improve the position in this respect. Mr. Chairman, when you participated in the discussion, you singled out this matter very specifically.

I want to make a serious appeal to hon. members and to the news media to assist us in drawing the attention of our young people to the waterworks—monuments to confidence, skill and the spirit of enterprise— which we need so badly for the future. I think it is a wonderful challenge and we should motivate people to qualify themselves in the engineering profession. The other day the hon. member for Humansdorp sent me a note in which he had written that his son was employed in some branch or other of the Department of Water Affairs in Pretoria. I am pleased to see that we, from among our small numbers here, are also making a contribution.

I think we should try to add stimulus to the efforts which the department and I are making in co-operation with the Public Service Commission, because we are faced with major problems.

There is a matter which is a little less pleasant, but I wish to dwell on it nevertheless. In the first place the department is experiencing the problem that some of its best people are leaving the service, not only as a result of greener pastures, but also as a result of their having reached the age limit. Two of our people who played an exceptional part in the water economy of our country will retire in the coming year, before this Vote is discussed again. I should like to dwell on this for a moment.

The first person I want to mention with great appreciation is Dr. J. P. Kriel, due Secretary to the department for the past 11 years. When he retires at the end of April 1980, he will have served his country for 43 years. From 1937 to 1980, with a break of two years, he was attached to the department. I should like to wish him a happy and successful last year with the department I trust that we shall still be able to make use of his services after his retirement. It is hoped that his successor will be appointed during the year. In the meantime I should like to pay tribute to Dr. Kriel. He leaves behind numerous monuments and high-water marks after what has been achieved in his time as secretary. His work in the department dealt with research, hydrology, planning, design, construction, the operation of irrigation schemes, water purification works, dams, canals, pipelines and related works. As I have said, he was appointed Secretary for Water Affairs in 1968. He served on a large number of interdepartmental committees and was a member of various commissions of inquiry. He was the author and co-author of two-score or more dissertations and was a member of various professional associations. In 1962 he was president of the S.A. Institute of Civil Engineers. From 1973 to 1976 he was Vice-President of the International Commission on Large Dams, a commission on which representatives from 74 countries served. He was also the chairman of the South African National Committee on Large Dams, and ex officio vice-chairman of the Water Research Commission. I am enumerating these things to emphasize what an excellent scientific and dedicated official the department has had at its disposal over the years. I should also like to convey my appreciation to his wife, who is sitting in the gallery today and who stood by him so loyally. I wish them every success. It is a pity that we have to take leave of a man who has become almost indispensable to us. However, I do not think we should dramatize this kind of thing. We shall simply have to regard it as the normal course of events. We hope we shall be able to find a person who will be able to follow in the footsteps of Dr. Kriel. I am taking a little time about this, because these people do very important work. If there is criticism, people can make long tirades on the mistakes that were made. I think it is also a good thing to pay people compliments while they can still be appreciated, rather than to place a hasty floral tribute on their graves.

The second person I wish to mention here, is Dr. G. J. Stander. He was chairman and chief executive officer of the Water Research Commission from its inception, and retired at the end of July this year. In the same way I convey my thanks and pay tribute to Dr. Stander for his excellent services over many years. I should also like to furnish a thumbnail sketch of Dr. Stander’s life. It will interest hon. members to know that Dr. Stander was born in 1911 in Philipolis—in your constituency, Mr. Chairman.

We have good people there.

I hope you are going to find us another person like that from that part of the world. Dr. Stander studied at the University of Cape Town and developed the Institute for Water Research of the CSIR into a full-fledged institute. He was director of this institute until in 1971 when he was appointed Chief Executive Officer of the Water Research Commission. Consequently he was from the beginning a person who had to take the lead there when this important body, the Water Research Commission, was established. He is the author of more than 90 scientific and research publications. He is considered to be a world authority in the sphere of water reclamation, and his advice in this sphere is regularly sought on an international level. In 1962 he was appointed by the World Health Organization to its panel for environmental health for a five-year period, and in 1973 was reappointed for a further five years. In 1962 he was appointed a member of the International Steering Committee for the International Conference on Water Pollution Research. And so I can continue. Just as in the case of Dr. Kriel, one can also spend much time enumerating the excellent qualities of Dr. Stander and the exceptional service which he rendered.

I want to conclude by saying that in 1978 the gold medal of the S.A. Chemical Institute was awarded to Dr. Stander. In addition he has been awarded honorary doctorates from three universities. I shall let that suffice. I just want to say thank you very much to Dr. Stander for the exceptional work which he has performed in the regard to the Water Research Commission.

I now wish to announce that Dr. Henzen is to succeed Dr. Stander. Dr. Henzen is attached to the Water Research Commission and will become the new chairman and executive officer for the unexpired period after Dr. Stander’s retirement. Consequently I wish to express the hope and confidence that Dr. Henzen, who is also present here today, will have a very successful period of service there.

I should now like to deal with matters raised by individual hon. members. The hon. member for Orange Grove referred to cooperation with neighbouring countries.

†He spoke about co-operation between neighbours, e.g. Lesotho, and about the Joint Technical Committee. In this regard we are busy with investigations. We do have this committee, but I do not think it is advisable to say anything more about the matter now. We are waiting for the report, and as soon as we get it and after we have had discussions at higher level about it, we can make public what we have achieved. In the meantime, however, there is still a lot to be done regarding investigations and discussions.

When do you expect the report?

I am afraid I cannot reply to that now. It is a big undertaking and a lot of work has to be done. The Secretary could perhaps give me some more information about this, but I think it would be wise not to say when I expect this report.

The hon. member has once again referred to Pongolapoort. This is a hardy annual.

*The position there is that we held discussions last year and I thought we achieved a reasonable measure of finality on the matter. In the meantime, however, no progress has been shown. Certain matters have been referred to a committee of officials, and perhaps I should just mention in passing that the discussion which the hon. the Minister of Foreign Affairs and I had with these people, was unfortunate in this sense that the specific Minister with whom we had the discussion lost his post 14 days after our discussions owing to political changes in Swaziland. Naturally this is causing a delay.

†I want to tell the hon. member, however, that I have been pressing this all along. At first I thought we only had a few technical problems. Last week there was the proposal that we should meet again early in June. I can say nothing more, but I hope we will be able to get together to thrash out this prolonged and difficult situation.

*I had hoped that the hon. member would sympathize with me, but it seems to me he is enjoying the situation. I suppose I shall simply have to accept that.

It is a tragedy.

The hon. member also referred to the supply of water to the Ciskei from the Orange River. In this regard I should like to mention that the water of the Lower Fish River is very saline. We are investigating this matter. But I do not think it is a proposition at all, because the further one goes down the Fish River, the more saline the water becomes. As I told the hon. member last year the Ciskei has its own water resources. This new development came to my notice only recently. It is very improbable that this water of the Lower Fish River can be used for irrigation purposes in the Ciskei.

*Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Piketberg, as usual, made a very interesting and informative speech. He referred, inter alia, to the supply of water to the Witwatersrand and also advocated the decentralization of industries. I have already referred to that in my general survey and I just want to emphasize again that the cost of water for industries amounts to only approximately 1%. Consequently the cost factor is not such a major problem there. From the point of view of an even distribution of industries in our country, this is perhaps a matter which should receive our attention. We shall have to see whether we cannot take the development to the water rather than to bring the water to the development. The hon. member congratulated my department and I want to thank him for doing so. He also referred to funds, staff losses and other problems we are experiencing. He also indicated where further developments would have to take place. In this connection he mentioned, inter alia, the Doring River and the Lower Orange. Indeed, there is a great deal that still has to be done and that can be done in such cases as the Aspoort Scheme and others. I want to assure the hon. members that we shall in due course turn our attention to all these matters again. I am particularly interested in the Doring River Scheme. But there is one thing which worries me, i.e. the fact that if we were to move faster, we would perhaps produce so efficiently on this highly productive land that over-production could result One does not want to produce so rapidly that marketing problems arise in regard to products in respect of which there is an oversupply on the South African market. But I can give the hon. member the assurance that the department is attending to these matters as ably as it can and that we shall, with an increased allocation, be able to devote even more attention to these matters.

The hon. member for Meyerton referred in a very interesting way to the building of the Vaal Dam in the ’thirties when our people went to work there for two shillings a day. Of course that was not the only way in which the Department of Water Affairs rendered welfare services. The irrigation schemes in certain areas were also undertaken as welfare schemes. The hon. member made a very interesting contribution. He also referred to fish farming and furnished figures in that connection, impressive figures. But I want to point out to the hon. member that this is not the task of the Department of Water Affairs. The department cannot undertake research of that kind. The department is responsible for its own dams as far as the supply of water is concerned, and when the dams have been completed, they are transferred for recreational purposes to the provincial authorities. The provincial authorities themselves are engaged in research into fish production, and so is the Water Research Commission. Actually I am of the opinion— and the department agrees with me—that this is a task which the Department of Agricultural Technical Services ought to undertake. It is after all a farming matter, a primary production initiative.

Another aspect which the hon. member mentioned was the fact that the Vaal Dam was originally built at a cost of £900 000 and that just the improvements which we are now proposing in the White Paper will already cost R24 million. This is an indication of how money has depreciated in value over all these years. I thank the hon. member very sincerely for his excellent contribution.

Furthermore, I also want to thank the hon. member for Ermelo for his contribution. He also referred to the Vaal River, as well as to his own beautiful water-abundant area, an area in which quite a number of dams have been constructed by the department, and where electricity is being generated by Escom’s major power stations. The hon. member specifically asked us to damp growth in the PWV area. I think that one should be able to turn on the brakes a little by means of Government action, although attempts which have been made up to now have not succeeded in that purpose. It is a very difficult situation. The hon. member also asked for support for the association for the Vaal River catchment area. I hope that towns that are able to make a contribution will in fact do so.

†The hon. member for Mooi River spoke about the Umgeni River and made special reference to the Umgeni Water Board. I want to inform the hon. member that a delegation of the Umgeni Water Board came to see me some two weeks ago. We held fruitful discussions, in which Dr. Kriel, the Secretary of Water Affairs, also took part I gave them all possible encouragement and I will write to them again. I agree with the hon. member that the Umgeni Water Board should be put in a position where it will be able to rationalize the supply of water to the area it serves. Certainly the department will assist them. I intend to visit that area personally later this year. That I promise the hon. member. I hope it will be possible for me to give them some encouragement and support, because I know that they do experience difficulties. However, I do not want to say too much about that now.

*The impression could possibly be created that I am trying to exert pressure on municipalities, etc. However, I requested the Umgeni Water Board to act with circumspection when they negotiate with the municipalities on the take-over of works. In addition there is prestige attached to the entire matter. It is therefore a rather difficult matter. But I want to give the hon. member the assurance that we are aware of the problems. We might have been able to render more assistance in the past, but we shall exert more pressure in future and render more assistance because we realize how important the task of rationalization is, on which the Umgeni Water Board is engaged. I hope that we will be able to tell the hon. member next year that we have made progress and that things are progressing more successfully than they did at Pongolapoort. After all, one is dealing here with one’s own people. I should like to thank the hon. member for his contribution.

Mr. Chairman, may I ask the hon. the Minister whether that means that the Hazelmere Dam will be built within the area of that board?

I do not wish to express an opinion on that now, but I promise to bear it in mind when the matter is discussed.

I also want to thank the hon. member for De Aar for a very interesting contribution. He also pointed out the basic importance of water and industrial development as compared with agricultural development He also discussed planning and stated certain needs. In particular he pointed out that there was no growth in the budget I have already said that we shall give this matter our attention. The hon. member requested that Escom should make more use of hydro-electric power even if only to a small extent. Of course this is a matter which rests with Escom itself. It is not always profitable for them, but I think the matter which the hon. member touched upon is very interesting and definitely warrants attention.

The hon. member for Winburg also referred to the limited amount of water available. He furnished very interesting information on the development of the Free State gold-fields. Many of us are perhaps unaware that we have a mine which produces gold as a by-product and uranium as the primary product in that vicinity. Owing to the mining development in that area, we had to submit a White Paper on the supplying of water. I just want to tell the hon. member that as far as I understand, the Bersa Mine, according to Dr. Kriel, will have a water consumption of 730 000 cubic m per annum. The supply of water by the Allemanskraal Dam and the Erfenis Dam is 121 million cubic metres on a permanent basis. A total of 110 million cubic metres per annum have been reserved for irrigation. This can be supplied on a permanent basis. Consequently I can tell the hon. member that there is sufficient water for irrigators and enough to supply the mines as planned.

I realize that if one gives such assurances, one has to take the weather into account. There is a saying among the farmers that one should keep quiet about the weather. I realize of course that one is incurring risks. However these figures were worked out by the department, taking into consideration the available statistics over many years. I think I can give the farmers in the constituency of the hon. member the assurance that that risk, in view of the available statistics, is very small and that we are doing everything possible to eliminate their problems.

The hon. member for Swellendam pointed out the need for irrigation and the attendant problems, as well as subterranean resources and old schemes which are perhaps no longer so efficient and where wastage could perhaps take place. He asked that attention should be given to the Rûens area as far as the water supply is concerned. I want to give the hon. member the assurance that nominal provision has already been made for this in the estimates. Consequently they are already starting to queue up. I want to give the assurance, therefore, that attention will be given to this entire area. There are three water schemes: Duivenhoks River, which was only commenced this year and for which larger amounts have been provided; the eastern Rûens and, thirdly, the western Rûens. These are very expensive schemes. The total expenditure on these three schemes for rural water supply is going to be approximately R30 million. However it will constitute a great advantage to a large area. Now they frequently have to resort to sowing, or do something else because the stock factor is not productive enough as a result of the water shortage. I think that is the basic problem of the people there. But I want to assure the hon. member that everything possible is going to be done to do justice to that area and that I have great sympathy for the people in that area.

Business suspended at 12h45 and resumed at 14h15.

Afternoon Sitting

Mr. Chairman, to me the most disturbing remark made by the hon. the Minister earlier on in this debate was the statement that it would not be advisable for us to plan at this stage for surpluses of agricultural produce, as we would not have the markets for them. I would have been pleased if both the hon. the Minister of Agriculture and the hon. the Deputy Minister of Agriculture had been present here this morning to listen to that statement, because one of the major problems in agriculture— and I am referring to this since agriculture and water affairs are very closely linked—is the fact that we have not developed marketing methods for the agricultural produce we are producing at present For that reason I am very pleased that the hon. the Minister of Water Affairs is siding with the farmer who faces the problem today that what he produces cannot be marketed in a proper maimed inside as well as outside South Africa. It might have been a good thing if the hon. the Minister of Agriculture could have attended this debate, even if it was only to listen to the statement to which I have just referred.

†I want to talk about the water project which is close to us here in the Western Cape, viz. the Simonsberg canal. I should like to address my remarks to the hon. the Minister on behalf of the farmers who are affected and who will benefit by this scheme. Firstly, I want to express my appreciation to the officials of the department for attending and addressing a meeting of farmers from the Klapmuts, Muldersvlei and Elsenburg areas, because this meeting which was held a few weeks ago was both significant as far as it highlighted a number of problems of which we in that area were not aware and which I would like to bring to the attention of the hon. the Minister here today.

In the first instance the canal is not being built through virgin territory. It is being built through an area which is highly developed and an area in which extensive development has already taken place. It is being built through an area in which the value of land is very, very high today. It would appear that when the cost of the land which is to be expropriated was calculated, the true value of the land was not fully realized by the department.

We have been told that the cost of building the canal is going to amount to something like R30 million. I have also been given to understand that the average price of the land in the area through which the canal will be running has been set at approximately R250 to R300 per hectare. The point I am trying to make is that authorities have indicated that the land could have a value as high as R10 000 per hectare. I understand that is the figure that a spokesman for the KWV has set on the value of land in that area. If that is so—and I am not saying that that figure applies to all the land through which the canal will be running—that the value of the land is in fact very much higher than it has been considered to be by the department, obviously the cost of the canal is going to be considerably more than has been calculated at this stage. I should like to hear the hon. the Minister’s comments on this and perhaps he could indicate to the House whether the department has recalculated the value and what he expects the average price of land in that area to be.

The second point I should like to make is that although we understand that the canal will only be completed in about eight to 10 years, the farmers still need time to plan their farming operations. The kind of agriculture in this area takes many years to develop. For instance, vineyards and orchards are not planned and planted overnight. People need to plan many years in advance. If the water is going to be made available in eight or 10 years’ time, my contention is that the farmers should have been given far more details about this scheme than they have, in fact, been given. We found at the meeting—for which we were very grateful—that to a great number of farmers the possibility of the canal was, in fact, news. Many of them did not even know approximately where the canal would be running and many had not planned for the availability of water in any manner whatsoever. I therefore think that when water schemes are planned in future, in areas such as this one which are already developed areas, the people concerned should be given more adequate notice, at least far more adequate notice than they have been given in this particular instance.

A further point is that the department is going to build the canal and make the water available to farmers in the area at the points where the water leaves the canal. What we do not know at this stage, however, is where those points are going to be. Even if it were not possible to have indicated exactly where the points of exit would be, surely it would have been possible to have indicated to farmers in the area more or less where those points are going to be. I say this because the farmers already have to start grouping themselves into water board areas because the farmers are going to be responsible for setting up their own distribution network. What I should therefore like the hon. the Minister to do—if he cannot do so today perhaps he could do so at a later stage—is to try to indicate to the people in that area where the exit points of the canal are going to be.

Finally I come to the major problem we are going to have in the area. I am speaking about the cost of the water itself. It has been made clear that the water is going to be made available to people who have already developed their own water resources either to the maximum degree or close to the maximum degree and that the water that will be made available should be seen as water in addition to that which the farmers have already either dammed up for themselves or obtained from boreholes. The problem of the farmers in the area is that they really cannot afford to pay between 16 cents and 18 cents per cubic metre—I think that is the figure—for irrigation water. I think this is going to be the most expensive agricultural irrigation water yet made available in South Africa.

That brings me back to the very first point I made today. The hon. the Minister has indicated that difficulty is experienced with marketing the products that will be produced. Already it is difficult to market the products being produced in that area. I think that the cost the farmers will be expected to pay for water is just beyond their means. We know that the costs of production in agriculture has shot up and that farmers are having great difficulty with making ends meet I wonder whether it is the correct principle to charge farmers a relatively high price for water by today’s standards and to keep that price fairly constant, if not absolutely constant, over a number of years. In other words, if a charge of 18 cents is expensive today, the argument is advanced that perhaps in 15 to 20 years’ time that will no longer be expensive. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I did not want to refer to the hon. member who has just resumed his seat, but I do want to give him the advice that, although no one prevents one from going around with stupid ideas in one’s head, one does owe it to oneself to hide them as far as possible. He criticized the hon. the Minister and said that one should not impose restrictions of any nature on products of which there is already over-production. I think that was his deathknell as regards his spokesmanship for the vegetable farmers in the Western Cape.

As the first speaker on this side after the hon. the Minister who spoke before lunch, I should like to express my thanks on behalf of this side of the House to Dr. Kriel and Dr. Stander, who are soon to retire. We want to convey to them our best wishes for the future and add to that that we are proud that people of their calibre and talent were able to put their qualities at the disposal of their own people for so many years.

When I came to this House more than two decades ago, I thought that it was rather obsequious to thank Ministers all day long, but I have also learnt something in this time. Tomorrow, in the principal town of the constituency I have the honour of representing, the first sod is to be turned for the construction of an undertaking unique of its kind and which is going to cost R12 million. I am referring to the malting plant which is going to be constructed and in which the farmers own 45% of the shares.

It is thanks to the Department of Water Affairs that this possibility could be realized. The contributions of the private sector in co-operation with the primary producer are a great source of pride to me. Private initiative, the producers and the processors really reacted swiftly. It was not only a deed of faith, it was also due to the special attention and assistance which the hon. the Minister and the department have given to the water supply of that town.

As far back as the early ’sixties, in fact, just after the census of 1960, it became clear that, owing to the depopulation of Whites and the growth of the Coloured population, as well as the saturation point which agriculture had reached at the horizontal level and the geographic situation of this area, this part of the country would continue to experience a growing backlog in comparison with the rest of the country. We predicted that the water supply had to be the salvation of this part of the country. In the Hottentots-Holland and Franschhoek mountains the rainfall is among the highest in the country, but the rainy season is brief and the water disappears very quickly. Only by means of an improved infrastructure and the provision of other services could the tourist industry and fishing industry in this area show the necessary growth. The shortage of water has been a bottleneck for those industries too.

I want to bring to the attention of the hon. the Minister the fact that some of our coastal towns which are dependent on tourism, have to accommodate a great many visitors from other parts of our own country and overseas for two to three months of the year—a number equivalent to 10 to 15 times the population of those towns. Over the years, many of these communities have had to undertake schemes without Government assistance which appeared to be more than their ratepayers could afford. Consumer resistance set in because White people comprised only 26% of the combined White and Coloured population. The Coloured taxpayer is not yet able to make his contribution to the coffers of the local authority. In the Coloured townships and beach resorts, too, there is a tremendous influx over weekends and during holidays, because as a result of the Coloureds’ increased standard of living they, too, have greater mobility.

I want to tell the hon. the Minister that I look forward to the day when we shall perhaps learn what to do from the Browne Committee’s findings, but I want to ask for very sympathetic consideration to be given even now to a new formula for Government departments such as the Department of Water Affairs and the Department of Community Development, so that they do not lag behind. I also want to ask that new methods be found to give support to the peri-urban and rural local authorities so that permanent inhabitants who have to pay property rates—this is a tax that is getting higher—do not have to carry the burden being caused by people in a different position in the economy.

The export fruit farmers in this area have done a very fine thing. Partly at their own expense and partly with the aid of a subsidy on distribution systems, they have completed a scheme whereby more than 100 farmers receive irrigation water. I want to say—we have already said this in the past—that there should surely be a quid pro quo, too, and that one should not simply expect the Government to do everything.

The Theewaterskloof Dam is nearing completion. This brings us new hope. The department has treated the Caledon municipality in a friendly way by offering assistance in advance with regard to this undertaking to which I have referred. The proposed Rûensveld West rural water supply scheme is now also on the cards. After so many years as a shareholder, I now also have to say, in the words of the poet—

This scheme we are looking forward to so much—the hon. member for Swellendam also spoke about this—will supply almost 400 farms in my area with filtered water for human and animal consumption and will comprise approximately 190 000 ha. This will enable us almost to double the livestock in this area. The area has the people, the farms, the farmsteads, the camps, the roads and the schools—everything necessary to encourage people to settle there. Perhaps there are also unknown people there, too, whose “performance” one does not as yet know. Then, too, there are all the factors necessary to keep the people already there on the land and to allow them to continue with their farming, not to provide products of uncertain price, but to be export-orientated farmers and to free the region from the restriction placed on it by the distance from the northern areas. It is becoming an ever-increasing problem to convey our livestock from the northern provinces and to send our products there. We must be in a position to be more export-oriented in our farming.

Mr. Chairman, in his speech, the hon. member for Caledon referred to a very beautiful part of our country, the Western Cape, and I assume you will allow me to refer to the most beautiful part, viz. the Southern Cape, in the course of my speech. I am a little careful in this respect. I shall not cross the mountain from Oudtshoorn, but I shall confine myself to the Little Karoo.

You may cross the mountain if you like.

I thank the hon. the Prime Minister. I shall cross it.

I want to come back in my speech on the statement made by the hon. the Minister of Water Affairs with reference to the water brought to the Vaal River from the Tugela. He said that this water was too expensive to be used for irrigation. The total expenditure on water schemes and irrigation works from 1882 to 31 March of last year, amounts to R1 325 million. This amount represents the work which has been done in South Africa over a period of nearly a century to develop the available water resources and to utilize the water supply effectively. Through its planning the former Department of Irrigation and the present Department of Water Affairs have succeeded, I believe, in keeping abreast of the tremendous development which has taken place in South Africa, so that it is possible at present to meet the demands for water for domestic consumption, for the industrial sector as well as for the agricultural sector. Without this supply, the progress and the development of South Africa would have been badly retarded. It is very clear that we have not yet reached the end of the road as far as the development of this country is concerned and that there will continue to be a large demand for water. The supply of water has to take place, in spite of the fact that the resources which can be developed, have become very limited.

Consequently one cannot find any fault with the department’s plea and policy to have the water supplies of South Africa exploited and utilized correctly. As in the case of many other commodities, South Africans will have to realize that in respect of water, too, excessive and wasteful consumption is a thing of the past Discipline will have to be exercised in every household, but similarly every industrialist and every farmer will have to adopt the correct attitude in respect of the use of water.

I believe that planning and research will remain the principal tasks of the Department of Water Affairs. If I confine myself to planning, it is obvious that in its planning the Department of Water Affairs will have due regard to the general, physical planning of South Africa, and that there will have to be a larger degree of correlation between this department and the Department of Environmental Planning. A watchful eye will have to be kept on the development of metropolitan areas.

At the same time I believe the department will also be unable to escape planning in respect of the rural areas, and particularly in respect of those areas of the Republic in which agriculture forms the basis of the economy. However wise we may be and however clever we may be, we shall have to accept one thing, and that is that there are parts of our country in which industrial development and mining cannot take place. Nature has simply arranged it that way, and it will be to no avail for local authorities to kick against the pricks and to have factories established. That can obviously not be done.

Now I want to confine myself specifically to irrigation areas. Let me say at once that I support and welcome the policy of the department, viz. to develop existing irrigation schemes rather than to tackle major new schemes. I support this policy for a number of reasons. The first is that the effective development of existing schemes may render it possible to develop agriculture as growth point for the area concerned. The second reason is that once we have developed agriculture as growth point, employment opportunities will be created in agriculture, and then the processing of agricultural products can serve as a further stimulus for development. The third reason is, in view of the fact that rural towns are becoming depopulated and are falling into decline, that this policy may check the urbanization process to a large extent. Consequently I advocate this afternoon that proper regard be had to the socio-economic aspect of irrigation areas.

I appreciate the department’s attitude, viz. that all waterworks which are undertaken, must be justifiable economically and an asset to the country. I am aware of the fact that public funds are used and that that money should be recoverable in the form of tax which will have to be paid by the irrigator.

On this Vote this afternoon, I should like to ask that the State take a penetrating look at the irrigation farmer and at the irrigation areas. I want to ask whether this cannot be done by a commission of inquiry on which the Department of Water Affairs, the Department of Agricultural Technical Services, the Treasury as well as the irrigation farmer can be represented. I believe it should be the task of such a commission to investigate irrigation scheme bottlenecks, to establish where canals have to be constructed to counteract loss of water, to determine whether rivers can be linked to establish whether it may be possible to take water from one area to another in order to inject new life into that area. It should be their task to find a fair formula for financing irrigation schemes.

The hon. the Minister said that the water taken from the Tugela to the Vaal, was too expensive to be used for irrigation purposes. In virtually every irrigation area in which surveys are carried out and in which the possibility of establishing an irrigation scheme is examined, we find that it is uneconomical and that the water will be too expensive. The result is that we have old irrigation areas which are falling into decline. We have a platteland which is becoming depopulated, and I believe that if we want to arrest the process of the urbanization by keeping our people in the rural areas, we shall have to inject new life into those areas in which agriculture forms the basis of the economy.

It should also be the task of such a commission to investigate the agricultural potential of every area in full. In other words, what I am advocating this afternoon, is that we obtain a report which will have as its objective the development of the South African platteland through irrigation, where this is possible.

All of us cannot live on the Rand, nor can all of us live in Cape Town, no matter how beautiful this city is. All of us cannot find a livelihood in the other cities in our country. All of us cannot be accommodated in mining or industry. I want to ask that we turn parts of the South African platteland into a happy dwelling-place tor many people, by means of thorough planning and by being realistic and accommodating.

Mr. Chairman, I want to make a few remarks this afternoon on the policy of the department of transferring Government dams to the provincial administrations for the development of recreational facilities as well as the conservation of fauna and flora. I want to link that more specifically to the question of the provision of outdoor recreational facilities for our non-White population groups, especially the Coloured people of the Western Cape.

The Government dams with their related works which are built by the department for the storing and distributing of water, all form a very important part of the infrastructure of our country. In this regard I am thinking for example of additional constructions such as roads to the dams, the network of canals, tunnels, purification works, hydro-electric power stations, pump stations, etc. It is also a very important factor in the development and strengthening of our country’s economy. Of course, the value and the significance of these dams and the water which is stored in them lie primarily in the beneficial exploitation of that water for agricultural irrigation, for use by industries, as well as for meeting general human needs, such as water supplies for urban areas. The storage of water in big dams also yields a very important by-product, virtually in the form of a bonus on the Government’s investment Every large expanse of water has a particular charm for man, be it the ocean, inland lakes, lagoons, rivers or dams; it still has a major attraction for man, particularly in a country where water is relatively scarce, as is the case here in South Africa. The bonus or by-product which is brought about by building a dam, is the recreational possibilities which arise.

During the Water Year we often heard that water is life. We often heard, too, how the water in dams provided man, animal and plant with life and refreshment. We can see the dam as such as a magnet, a magnet which has a romantic attraction for man. Apart from the water which is stored there, water which can be used beneficially and therefore is an economic factor, the landscape is also changed by the construction of a dam. A new dam may, as it were, be regarded as a new geographical phenomenon, a geographical fact. Not only is it a stimulus to the eye, but it also creates great possibilities for popular outdoor recreation.

The Department of Water Affairs has been demonstrating for a long time that it is aware of this great and important potential. Hence the policy to which I referred, the policy of exploiting this potential by means of agreements with the provincial authorities. I think it is a very sensible and laudable policy which is being adopted in this respect After the dam has been completed, the area of water, as well as the land area of the dam are transferred to the provincial authority by way of agreement so that it may be used for the purpose of outdoor recreation, as well as for the conservation of fauna and flora.

In the Cape Province, I believe, this system could develop a rather special significance. It has great possibilities in a certain sense, and a salutary object can be achieved with it I have in mind the allocation and the making available of outdoor recreational facilities to our non-White population groups and more specifically to our Coloured people. It is a fact and no one with a sense of responsibility, I believe, will today deny that there is as yet a considerable discrepancy between the facilities which have been made available in this respect to Whites and non-Whites, respectively. When we look at beaches and beach facilities, as well as inland recreational facilities, we have to admit that an unfortunate discrepancy still exists. That is why we are grateful to note that the present administrator of the Cape Province is fortunately very much aware of this fact Not only is he aware of it, but he and the Provincial Administration are also actively doing something about the matter.

The thought I want to bring home here today in this regard is that the transfer of control over dam surface areas to the Administration, and the development of amenities there, should be exploited as an opportunity to bring about an improvement in respect of the prevailing discrepancy. It will mean that—it will require that—with regard to all allocations which are made and all amenities which are created, the needs and the backlog of non-Whites, particularly those of the Coloured people in the Cape Province, will particularly and specially have to be borne in mind. It will not be inappropriate, in fact I think it is fully justifiable, even to give a degree of priority to the needs of this population group in this regard.

I believe the White community can afford it, and I believe that we can expect them, also as far as these amenities are concerned, not to stake prior claims and to demand the best for themselves again. I believe that we can afford to grant that degree of priority to the other population groups in this respect. The creation of such amenities for non-Whites at quite a few of our big Government dams in the Cape Province will bring this privilege within reach of thousands to whom it is now unattainable as a result of the distances involved. Here I want to say at once that we could, for example, think of such a development at Voëlvlei Dam, which will also in due course be transferred to the Province. I believe that plans are already being formulated by the Department to transfer Voëlvlei, and the negotiations will probably begin soon. I think that an imaginative project could be developed here in particular. In my opinion it has exiting possibilities. We have to bear in mind that there are a number of large concentrations of our non-White groups near Voëlvlei. They will then be within reach of it in order to make use of it.

I think we should also keep in mind the fact that they need it far more than the White community. The pattern of recreation is different among Whites. They usually go to the sea where there are more amenities and where many of them also have beach cottages. It could be an important factor if something like that were developed for the non-Whites, and they could make proper use of it.

I realize that this is really a matter for the provincial administration. I think, however, that it should also be raised here, because I know what the position of the provincial administration is. The need and the will is there, but there are other factors which make matters difficult. Finances always remain the restricting factor. Consequently I think it would be a good thing if we could create a beneficial climate here, too, for a larger allocation of funds to the provincial administration. Only if a more liberal allocation of funds is made will it be possible for the provincial administration to create such amenities.

I have an imaginative project in mind, where an opportunity will be created for people to make use of the dam for recreational purposes. Nowadays these people are also keen on all these forms of outdoor recreation and therefore they are able to make proper use of them.

There is another reason as well why I think we should make such amenities available to them. The amenities which are made available to this group reach saturation point far sooner than is the case with the amenities for Whites. Not only are they often limited and inadequate from the outset, but the need also grows far more rapidly than among the Whites. There are so many more non-Whites every year, who are not only desirous of enjoying such privileges, but who have also attained the financial means to do so. Another factor which I think we should take into account, is the fuel crisis. If the amenities can be placed within reasonable reach of these people, they can also make a contribution in this connection to fuel conservation. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Oudtshoorn dealt with irrigation and the cost of building dams for the supply of water. He also dealt with the development of the rural areas for the purposes of irrigation. However, one wants to pose the question whether there is a level at which one can calculate the price of water when it is no longer profitable to use it for agricultural purposes. I think one might be able to make out a case for that. Consequently I hope to come back to this within a matter of minutes.

†I should like to associate myself with the hon. the Minister in the tribute that he has paid to Dr. Kriel and to Dr. Stander. These two gentlemen would be luminaries in any field in any country. Even in an enormous country like the USA they would have stood up by the excellence of their performance and by their intellectual capacity. It is therefore really a tremendous pleasure for us in South Africa to have people like them in the service of our country.

During our visit to Iran, I remember very well meeting Dr. Kriel in that beautiful Hilton Hotel, in Teheran. Of course, we now have the sad memories of so many of our friends we met there, who have since been executed by the revolutionary Government. Concerning Dr. Stander I have a memory of a moment which I will never forget in all my life. A group of hon. members of this House visited Pretoria to see the water reclamation works there. On the reclamation site we saw the raw sewage from the city of Pretoria flowing in at the one end. After flowing through a series of pipes, filters, etc., it came out at the other end pure and crystal clear. I remember seeing a glass jar with something in it, obviously water. One of the people working on the project took a glass, filled it and gave it to Dr. Stander. We all stood back and thought we would watch him drink it and if he dropped dead we would know it was no good. Dr. Stander, however, gave the glass to me! I can tell hon. members that it was an ugly moment in my life, but I drank the contents and I am still here.

The quality of the work that is being done by Dr. Kriel and the department on the large dams, and by Dr. Stander on reclamation, is an absolute tribute to South Africa, and I should therefore like to associate myself with the words of the hon. the Minister in this regard.

I want to raise several other matters. One of these affects virtually the whole coastal area of Natal where settled communities are hosts to influxes of tourists. There are now three or four tourist seasons on the Natal coast where water is supplied to local authorities by the water boards. The local communities have to bear a lot of extra cost, which they would not normally have to bear, because of increased facilities such as caravan parks, holiday hotels, holiday flats and that sort of thing, all of which put a burden on the ratepayers of those communities. Representations have been made to us to try and get a system introduced whereby there could be a dual rate system so that extra rates could be levied for what are essentially holiday facilities. This would relieve the local inhabitants of the considerable burden which has been placed upon them. I am not quite convinced in my mind that the hon. the Minister is the right person to approach in this matter because I think this may well be the province of the provincial administration in Natal, but representations have been made to us to raise the matter, and I should therefore like to leave this with the hon. the Minister.

I also want to talk about cost escalations, and in this regard I should like to return to the question of the development of the platteland through irrigation. When one considers the immense amounts of money invested every year by the department in the construction of dams, I think one must agree with the attitude which has been adopted by the hon. the Minister here today, and by the department previously, that it is becoming increasingly difficult, in this country, to supply water for irrigation. I honestly think we are getting to a stage where the construction of a dam merely for irrigation purposes is something we can no longer seriously consider. If this can be associated with the provision of water for urban areas or factories, or something in that line, and the community who relies on the irrigation can draw benefit from it, I think it could perhaps be economically justified.

And if there are no factories?

There was a 13% recovery of the total capital cost in the case of the Duivenhoks Dam which we discussed here last year. Yesterday, when we were discussing another Vote, the hon. the Minister mentioned the Goedertrouw Dam. I just want to say a few words about this dam. A White Paper was laid before the House in which justification was given for the spending of R12½ million on a dam which would supply water for Richards Bay. It said that there was a system of fresh water lakes, that the dam would guarantee a certain amount of water on a sustained yield basis and so forth. The first supplementary report on the Goedertrouw Dam, which has now been issued, states that due to a general increase in construction costs, an extended construction period and site conditions which differed from those originally expected, the estimated cost of the dam rose by R22½ million. From the initial estimate of R12½ million it has risen by R22½ million to a total of R35 million. Even as I stand here now, I am quite certain that by the time the dam is actually finished, the figure of R35 million will have been increased, even though the department has built in a considerable amount for expected inflation.

I want to ask the hon. the Minister whether, in fact, the form in which White Papers are submitted to Parliament should not be altered. I know that they are required to be submitted in terms of the Water Act and that they set up an elaborate system of justification for the project costs involved. One gets a cost benefit ratio, estimates of what the water is going to cost, and the department is very careful to say that the Minister is obviously not committed to the figures because cost escalations give him the right to set up another tariff later on. I really question seriously, however, whether it would not serve the purposes of this Parliament just as well to have a far simpler document which would not load the department with all the detail it has to go into in all these White Papers, which are really a justification, to us as members of Parliament, of the expenditure of the money. I do not want to go into what the details ought to be, but I think the documents could be considerably simplified whilst still serving the purposes of this Parliament just as well, because we know that every White Paper that comes before the House will have a built-in inflation factor. Whatever the stated present costs are, we know that in the future the projects will cost a great deal more than the amounts stated in the White Papers.

I now want to ask the hon. the Minister a question about his report. I was poring over this report the other day and reading about the Albert Falls Dam which is in my constituency, and since the dam is in my constituency, anything to do with it I am very concerned about I quote from page 80 of the report—

That is right.

You see, Mr. Chairman, I got it right first time! What I should like to know from the hon. the Minister, however, is what on earth a “piezometer” is. I know that we should be very happy, in my constituency, to know that the Albert Falls Dam is now actually going to have an additional one, but could the hon. the Minister not please tell us what it is we are going to have an extra one of!

What does the hon. member for Amanzimtoti say it is?

He did not say what it means. He just said that I had pronounced it correctly.

How does he know?

Well, he is an engineer.

I should like to come back to the question of irrigation because earlier on the hon. member for Ermelo mentioned the irrigation in the Vaal River system. On page 10 of the Supplementary Report on the Proposed Vaal Dam Betterments and Additional Storage the hon. the Minister has adopted the attitude that it is possible to include the Grootdraai Dam in the rest of the Vaal River System for the i purpose of calculating unit costs and tariffs. He then gives the reasons, one being that this would increase the net dependable yield of the Vaal River system as a whole. In principle I support that wholeheartedly. I think this is the right attitude to take even though the hon. the Minister is not collecting more in tariffs from the irrigators lower down the river. That is something, by the way, that I should like to query with the hon. the Minister. I am not trying to put up the tariffs of the irrigation farmers. However, since the hon. the Minister has guaranteed them a “stabilized”—that is the word that is used in the report—supply of water, is it not reasonable that the costs should, sometime or other, be increased? Should there not be a sliding scale, or something like that, in terms of which the costs to be recovered from irrigators could be increased?

This brings me to the calculation of the unit cost of water, as reflected on page 13 of the White Paper. What is being done here is that virtually the entire original Vaal Dam— this was mentioned by the hon. member for Meyerton—is being written off. It has been in existence now for 38 years, yet the Vaal Dam as such is virtually being written off in terms of the White Paper. What is happening now, however, is that the Vaal Dam betterments, described in this report, are regarded as replacing the original Vaal Dam, and the useful life of the improved Vaal Dam is now extended over a further 45 years. So the entire cost of the replacement works, etc., will now be taken into account and recovered over a period of 45 years. I am puzzled that one can write off what is virtually the substructure of the system, which is the Vaal Dam, and then by making improvements or betterments to it, virtually re-instate the whole thing and extend its life over a further 45 years, this being the period on which one is going to calculate the unit costs. Perhaps the hon. the Minister will be able to explain that to me in somewhat greater detail.

Then there is the question of the consideration being given to recovering the cost of the work. It is the aim to reduce the flood danger along the Vaal River and for this reason a levy is being collected from riparian owners. If the hon. the Minister wants to collect a levy in order to be able to protect people against flood damage, he is going to have to guarantee to those people that there will not be any flood damage in the future. I would welcome the assurance from the hon. the Minister that these works are in fact going to achieve that. In paragraph 8.5.2 on page 11 of the White Paper it is stated with reference to the levy that—

[Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I am not going to reply to the points which the hon. member for Mooi River raised here. I just want to say that when the hon. member rose and began talking about bubbles, with reference to Dr. Stander, I thought that he was going to talk about little spheres again.

But there are little spheres on the front page of the annual report of the Water Research Commission.

Mr. Chairman, I am glad that the hon. the Minister spoke about weather modification and the possibility of the promotion of rainfall today, because that is the subject which I should like to mention today. South Africa is a big and thirsty country. It is estimated that all the water we can possibly store, will have been stored and will be in use by the end of this century. Our consumption is going to increase from 10 000 million cubic metres to 30 000 million cubic metres from now until the end of this century. It is going to be trebled. Industrial consumption of water is increasing by 6% per annum. We should also remember that our population will soon be increasing by one million people per annum. At present we are spending approximately R120 million per annum on capital works. The hon. the Minister recently said that we shall need approximately R18 000 million to develop all our water resources. This is probably the figure for the present time. It is still going to escalate. That is the amount which has to be spent over a period of 20 years. A simple calculation shows us that, if we want to reach that target, we shall have to spend at least R1 000 million per annum. We are not doing that now. Consequently these plans are not going to be sufficient in any case. We shall have to obtain water in other ways as well. We shall have to re-use it Even then we shall find by the year 2000 that we shall have to turn to new resources, for example the ocean. At present, desalination is a very expensive process. It costs approximately R4,70 per cubic metre, which is, of course, far too expensive for agricultural purposes. We shall therefore have to strive for optimum utilization.

However, this is not the aspect which I want to discuss today. I want to speak about the possible increase of the run-off of water, as the hon. the Minister envisaged it this morning. I want to ask the hon. the Minister whether we are at present doing sufficient research in regard to weather modification. In the annual report of the Water Research Commission I read that it is a long-term project Reference is made to the support which is being given to the Department of Transport for the project at Bethlehem and for the project in which the Lowveld Tobacco Co-operative is involved. The hon. the Minister told us about that this morning. With reference to the project at Bethlehem, one further reads in the report (p. 59)—

As far as the Lowveld project is concerned, it is stated (p. 60)—

However, they are not very sure about that. We therefore conclude from the report that there is still much uncertainty in this field. The question is whether we realize the seriousness of the situation and whether we are providing adequate financial support. In a report of the Department of Transport one reads, with reference to the project at Bethlehem—

I am pleased to see that the hon. the Minister of Transport is present.

I am always present.

I quote from the next page—

I therefore want to ask again whether we are really in earnest in our attempt to obtain rapid results. I also want to sound a positive note, though, and congratulate the Weather Bureau in Bethlehem on the automatic weather station they have developed. It is being built locally and they can now export and sell it abroad at a profit I agree with the hon. the Minister of Water Affairs that any small increase in the rainfall which we can cause will pay us great dividends.

I should like to point out that the work with regard to weather modification is being subsidized to a large extent by the Water Research Commission. The contribution to the Bethlehem project amounted to R168 000, and to the Nelspruit project, R13 800. For the rest it was financed by farmers and co-operatives. The Government did not spend a cent on it. It is also important to know where the Water Research Commission gets its money from. It does not get it from the Government, but from the consumers. Irrigators pay R104 000 to the Water Research Commission in the form of a levy, and other consumers pay R3,5 million. It is a large amount which is paid by the urban consumer. However, they need not take fright. If one studies the list of projects of the Water Research Commission, one finds that the urban consumer derives a direct benefit from more than half of the approximately 50 projects in which the commission is involved. The industries make full use of the Water Research Commission as well for solving problems such as the treatment of effluent. Other projects which are undertaken by the Water Research Commission, for instance the desalination of sea water, flood prevention, hydrological studies and studies on subterranean storage, inter alia, here on the Cape Flats, are to the benefit of all, and not only to the benefit of the rural areas.

I want to say that rainfall stimulation is one of the most important projects for the future and that all consumers will probably be prepared to pay a little more. The present tariff which is paid by consumers to the Water Research Commission, is not a large amount at all. It costs a farmer only 40c per hectare, and other consumers only 0,2c per kilolitre. I want to express the hope, therefore, that the hon. the Minister, if it is necessary, will go so far as to increase the levy if fie does not succeed in finding sufficient money for the Water Research Commission. He should even consider making provision in the estimates for more money for this very important purpose.

Mr. Chairman, it so happens that I am going to refer in my speech to what the hon. member for Humansdorp said, for it so happens that we are talking about the same subject. The hon. the Minister himself also referred this morning to weather modification and rain stimulation. The importance of this subject in the present South African situation is becoming more and more important. The fly which was riding on the elephant’s back, said to the elephant when it walked across the bridge: We are making it creak, aren’t we! It is the same with me. After the hon. the Minister has also discussed this matter, we are making him creak.

I want to make a plea today for the making available of funds, facilities and apparatus for thorough and continuous scientific research in South Africa, into weather modification, and with special reference to rain stimulation and the possible reduction of hailstorms. Before I say something on this subject, I should like to refer to something else in my own constituency. I want to express gratitude for what was provided for in the estimates with regard to the Renoster River Government Water Scheme, particularly for the repair and construction of canals, work which was started a few years ago, but which then had to be stopped because of financial conditions, but which we hope will now be resumed. I am sure that the necessary work will soon be done, with the co-operation of the Administration and the local committees, and that the control will be satisfactory.

To come back to weather modification and rain stimulation: Various hon. members as well as the hon. the Minister referred this morning to the importance of water. Water has become a magic word in a country like South Africa. Water has become the source of life to us. There is one thing all of us should realize. All water which is available in South Africa, for whatever purpose, comes from above. The farmer who has to operate under dry land conditions, depends on the rainfall. The farmer who is able to irrigate, irrigates from sources which originated in the form of rain water. The industrial and urban consumption is simply rain water run-off which has been stored in dams and has been distributed from there. There is a very strong correlation between the rainfall and the direct return on capital in agriculture; in other words, the quality and the size of the farmer’s harvest depends to a large extent on the regularity and the amount of rain he received throughout his growing season. I have tried to make a calculation for myself, and I state it for what it is worth, because it is probably not totally correct I tried to establish how much of the total amount of crop failures in our Highveld area occurred because of droughts. I came to the conclusion that droughts were responsible for between 70% and 80% of the crop failures. Hail, flood damage and insect plagues were principally responsible for the rest.

In the times in which we are living, we are aware of rising production costs and of the struggle of the farmer to counteract risk factors. We also know that if we can do something about one of these major problems which cause crop failures, viz. droughts, it is probably our responsibility to do so with everything we have.

Reference was also made this morning to the consumption by our industries and by our urban consumers. Reference was also made to the Vaal basin, and it was said that since 1970 it has not been possible to make any additional irrigation water available from that area, because all that water is already needed for the industries and for urban consumption. It was also said, with the new projects which have already been planned, such as the Tugela project and others, that we might be able to make provision for the consumption, but that that water would be too expensive for irrigation purposes. It was, however, also stated very clearly that by the year 2020— even if we have exploited all existing resources—we shall no longer be able to make provision for our industries, at the rate at which they are developing. The Secretary for Water Affairs said, inter alia, that a total amount of approximately R550 million would be spent, from the present time until a start is made with these projects to make provision for the needs of the Vaal basin. If we take all these things into account, and if we take cognizance of all these things, we must begin to realize that we shall have to do something to improve the situation for ourselves.

According to a survey which was carried out by Sentraoes at Bethlehem—this is also in line with overseas statistics—only 5% of the total amount of moisture which is contained in the clouds that drift over South Africa is eventually precipitated onto the surface. Countries such as America, Chili, Kenya, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden and Australia have certain data on weather modification and rain stimulation. Israel stated that it estimated that it could improve its rainfall by 20%. I think the hon. the Minister referred to the fact this morning that, if one could increase the rainfall in an area such as the Vaal basin, for example, by 20%, one could increase the runoff by a percentage of between 40% to 60%. Therefore one will probably be able to save a great deal on interest which has to be paid on these capital investments in the near future. What is more, we can imagine what it will mean to the South African farmer, to the foreign exchange earnings of South Africa, and to the general economic situation in South Africa, if we can succeed in bringing about a 5% or a 10% increase in the rainfall in drought years, such as this one. Therefore it is essential, in my opinion, for us to look into this matter. I take my information from data which I obtained from the manager of Sentraoes, the co-operative which carried out these experiments at Bethlehem in cooperation with the Department of Transport and the Department of Water Affairs. Mr. Schutte informed me that they began with this project on 23 December 1971. I want to add immediately that these figures are by no means decisive, because there are not enough, and the tests were carried out over too short a period of time. They can, however, indicate a trend. On 23 December 1971 they began, therefore, to seed clouds for the incidence of hail. During the 10 years preceding 1971, in other words from 1961 to 1971, the average ratio of claims to premiums—the amount of hail determines that relation—was 42%. During the year 1971, that ratio of claims instituted to premiums paid, was 8,3%. In the same area, where the clouds were not seeded, however, the average percentage ratio of claims instituted to premiums paid was 23% for that same year. The lowest ratio during the 10 preceding years was 13% and the highest 120%.

It could, of course, be quite fortuitous that matters worked out in that way, but it could also be an indication of what we may expect. The hon. the Minister said this morning that other problems are also being experienced, because farmers from that same area lodged complaints, complaints which feel mainly into four categories. Their diversity already indicates how unreliable those complaints and allegations were. In the first place, they said that the clouds had disappeared because of the aircraft meddling with the clouds. The hon. the Minister correctly pointed out this morning that when the aircraft flew past there, the cloud disappeared. Another man alleged that when the aircraft flew past the cloud, hail began to fall, and there was more hail and larger hailstones than was normally the case. Still another alleged that it had absolutely no effect to the good or to the bad. A fourth one said—hon. members should remember that in the Free State we harvest in December—that it rained so much every day that he was not able to harvest. Those are the problems which this weather modification apparently caused there. My plea in this regard is the same as that of the hon. member for Humansdorp. In view of this uncertainty, but also in view of the indications and evidence we have obtained from other countries, I believe that this matter is almost as important to South Africa as our search for oil. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I gained the impression today that this debate also affords hon. members the opportunity to make all kinds of claims. One of those claims was made particularly by our Cape colleagues here in this House. They claim that the part of the country they hail from, is the most beautiful part of the country. [Interjections.] I have no fault to find with that. After all, every man believes that his wife is the most beautiful woman in the country. [Interjections.] Moreover, every hon. member is married to his own constituency as well. [Interjections.] I make the statement, however, that the part of the country I hail from, is the most important part of the country. [Interjections.] It is the north-western Transvaal border area. That area is important for specific reasons. I shall come back to that later on.

I should like to ask the hon. the Minister for two things for that area this afternoon. In the first place I want to ask him to help us to save water. In the second place I want to request him to help us to combat the increasing infiltration of terrorists into that area.

Must I drown them?

Pour water over them! [Interjections.]

One can save water by preventing water from being wasted as well as by preventing water from being used injudiciously; that is, from being used incorrectly. The injudicious use of water often gives rise to the excessive diminishing of water supplies. In my part of the world, this constitutes a threat to the subterranean water supplies. One of the most important steps which the hon. the Minister can take to protect our subterranean water resources, is by making use of the machinery created in terms of section 28 of the Water Act. In terms of that particular section the State President may from time to time by proclamation in the Government Gazette declare a certain area a subterranean water control area. If the Minister is of the opinion that the abstraction of water naturally existing underground in the area concerned may result in undue depletion of its underground water resources, he may request the State President to issue such a proclamation.

Now I should like to know from the hon. the Minister this afternoon whether his department does take steps from time to time to prevent people from depleting our underground water resources, or depleting them unduly. I ask this question as I am particularly interested in the hon. the Minister’s reply, and as I should like to refer to practices which are quite often encountered in those very arrid bushveld areas.

Farmers in those areas are continually searching for subterranean water, and the boring-machines are continually droning in that part of the world. Most farmers in those areas are cattle farmers, who are dependent on bore-holes for their water supplies to a very large extent One need not be a prophet to be able to predict at present that with worsening drought conditions we shall soon be hearing many complaints from farmers with regard to bore-holes which are drying up. Now, it is the accepted practice in that area for some farmers to sink bore-holes which yield between 30 000 and 50 000 gallons of water per hour. In that way large parts of the bushveld is being deforested, because of the fact that those farmers then launch an irrigation scheme. Those farmers usually lay out beautiful wheatfields. When the drought conditions begin, however, it has been the experience that the bore-holes of farmers in and around that same area begin to dry up. To us this really is a big problem in that area.

I refer to this matter as I should like to ask the Minister to address a timely warning in this regard to people who are guilty of this kind of practice, people who utilize the subterranean water in that area in a really injudicious way. The second request which I should like to make to the hon. the Minister this afternoon, is that he should assist us to establish irrigation schemes in the northwestern part of the Bushveld. It is very important to us to effect the resettlement of the White farming community in that very important border area. I am referring to investigations which have been undertaken in regard to the Marico River. Our plea is that further investigations be instituted into the establishment of irrigation schemes at and the construction of dams on the Marico, Crocodile, Limpopo and Matlabas Rivers. These are in fact necessary so that it may be ascertained whether it is not possible to establish further irrigation schemes there. I believe that this is the most effective way of resettling a farming community in those areas.

The situation of those irrigation schemes if they are established will in fact be such that they will also be very beneficial to Black farmers in the region concerned. If we can offer those people a viable existence as a result of those irrigation schemes, we shall have satisfied neighbours on whom we shall be able to depend in times of future problems. Therefore I plead with the hon. the Minister to have an investigation instituted here which will truly be in the interests of the country, so that we may swell the numbers of farmers in those areas.

Mr. Chairman, I hope the hon. member for Marico will excuse me if I do not react to his speech. Firstly, I should like to associate myself with the remarks made by the hon. the Minister and the hon. member for Mooi Rivier who wished the Secretary for Water Affairs and the chairman of the Water Research Commission well in their forthcoming retirement I must say that I was unaware of the fact that their retirement was in the offing. I do think, however, that both these gentlemen will be very sorely missed in the department Both are men of outstanding calibre, and we can only wish them well in their retirement.

I want to come back to part of the hon. the Minister’s reply to my earlier speech. I asked him very specifically about the policy in regard to water development in homeland areas. He did reply about the Fish River, but there are many others like the possible Swart Kei supply for the Queenstown area. I just feel that we must undertake schemes which are not necessarily of great economic value. The social uplift that is needed in those areas should, I think, be decisive in the building of schemes of this nature.

One can look at the scheme spoken about by the hon. member for Caledon and the hon. member for Oudtshoorn. It is not economically a very sound scheme, but it is nevertheless necessary for the people in that area. I envisage a similar sort of thing in homeland areas which I believe are, to a certain extent, being short-changed, although there are good schemes going ahead there.

I should also like to add my voice to that of the hon. member for Mooi River who talked about the Goedertrouw scheme and the phenominal cost escalation in regard to that scheme. We have been told that cost escalations in schemes of this nature tend to be approximately between 14% and 18% per annum, which is of course ahead of the inflation rate at the moment However, this seems to go beyond that, and so I am looking forward to hearing the hon. the Minister’s reply.

I should like to raise two further matters with the hon. the Minister. The first matter concerns something which has been the subject of considerable correspondence between the hon. the Minister and myself. There is tremendous disquiet about the site for the planned new dam in the Umfolozi River. The original 39 sites have been narrowed down to approximately 13, which are at present being investigated in more detail. I must admit that I am getting more and more nervous about this, because it appears to me that the threat to the Umfolozi game reserve is not only still with us, but is, in fact, probably worse. I want to ask the hon. the Minister about the proceedings on the committee of inquiry into the ecological implications of the dam in the Umfolozi River. This is an official committee undertaking the inquiry. I should like to know whether this committee has met and, if so, how often. Has the committee come to any conclusions and, if so, what are the ecological implications? There are many thousands of people throughout South Africa who are extremely upset at the fact that a dam in the Umfolozi Game Reserve should even by considered, and I must say that I agree with them. It might just be that the best site is in the reserve, but I believe that even if the best site is there, the dam should not be built there. There are alternative sites.

Yesterday the hon. the Minister was in the House when we discussed an amendment to the National Parks Act If the Umfolozi Game Reserve was a national park, the hon. the Minister’s department would not even have been allowed to go into the area to examine potential dam sites. No one will argue about the need for water, but surely investigations inside any proclaimed game reserve should be the very last to be made.

I asked the question about the committee of inquiry into the ecological implications of a dam in the Umfolozi Game Reserve because I suggest that before anything else was done, ecological suitability should have been examined. If certain sites, as a result of environmental investigations, were found to be unsuitable for ecological reasons, there would have been no point in even starting drilling operations to examine geological suitability. The area concerned is a sanctuary, and as any ecologist would agree, the size of any sanctuary is basic to its effectiveness as a sanctuary. Depending on how much land area would be inundated by any potential dam, an assessment could be made as to whether the effectiveness of the reserve as a sanctuary would be destroyed if water covered a particular area. In other words, what portion of the areas of the several preserved habitats would be destroyed by a potential dam?

If such habitats were going to be destroyed, and the effectiveness of the reserve as a sanctuary was damaged, it should be regarded as ecologically unsuitable and no further consideration should be given to it as a dam site. Sites under consideration, such as the one at Matshemalope, should immediately have been eliminated from further consideration because it covers such a huge area that it would have damaged the reserve very badly indeed. Unfortunately—and I regret to have to say this—I believe that the opinions of conservationists are often treated, with impatience, as being of secondary importance. I wish I could make the department understand that the sort of conservation that I am talking about is as important to the quality of life of human beings as any other consideration, including water supplies, when alternative sources or dam sites are available.

I want to go further in this matter and say that I believe that the department has been guilty of a flagrant disregard of powers which have been delegated to the province in that the department has overridden the Natal Parks Board’s viewpoint, though that area is the responsibility of the Parks Board and, above them, the responsibility of the provincial administration of Natal. The department appears to have ignored the studied conclusions of the Natal Town and Regional Planning Commission concerning the optimum use of the water in the Umfolozi catchment area. I am not even actually aware of definite plans for this water, except for a need in the Richards Bay-St. Lucia area, and I should like an absolute assurance from the hon. the Minister that only as a very last resort will a dam site in that reserve be considered. I have asked him for this assurance before and have not received it, but one lives and hopes in matters like this. The people of Natal do not want it—and the hon. member for Mooi River will confirm this I know he feels strongly on the matter and knows they do not want it—and I believe that all South Africans who have any feeling for conservation would support this viewpoint. Government should be with the consent of the people, and in this instance the people of Natal have made it clear, through their body charged with the responsibility for this area as well as by a huge public outcry, that they do not want a dam in the Umfolozi Game Reserve. I wish the hon. the Minister would drop the idea completely. I am absolutely certain that he will find alternatives. He has already damaged the area by driving roads through the reserve in order to carry out geological drilling. The whole affair is most unfortunate.

I want to deal with another matter which has already been discussed by the hon. the Minister and the hon. members for Humansdorp and Heilbron. This matter has to do with weather modification. I do not think any hon. member would question the need for experiments in weather modification to try to improve the rainfall in many areas. I have no quarrel with that I think everyone approves of that in principle. I have received representations, and I know the hon. the Minister and other hon. members have also received representations, from a body known as the Action Committee on Weather Modification, a body based in the hon. the Minister’s own constituency. They present a case, and although I am not able to judge whether they are correct or not, I want to fault the hon. the Minister and the department because I believe that what they have done has been a bad public relations exercise. I believe that by consultation with the people concerned, by talking to them, one could have obtained the co-operation of the people in the area. In one document I have from them it is stated that in a petition 298 people signed in favour of cloud-seeding while 6 759 were against it. Let me just remind the hon. the Minister that all those people are in his constituency. Does he not believe that he should do something about those voters, even if it is only in terms of a public relations exercise? I think he made out a case, in his pronouncement earlier today, in favour of the project, but I believe that consultation, and specific answers to the charges levelled by those people, are a crying necessity. They have produced facts and figures. As I have said, I cannot judge their correctness, but they certainly do seem to have some substance. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Orange Grove has so many problems that only the hon. the Minister will be able to solve them. However, I also have representations to make to the hon. the Minister. I want to ask him whether the commission of inquiry into the dam concerned cannot also investigate the possibility of a park for the PFP, only not in Natal, because I do not think the hon. member for Mooi River would like that.

I think you are being unnecessarily rude.

I should like to associate myself with hon. members on this side of the House and with the hon. the Minister in saying that the availability of water is so much taken for granted that too few of us realize that water and the supply of water are prerequisites for the economic development and growth of the Republic of South Africa. We have reason to be deeply concerned about the fact that our economic progress and growth will be forced to a standstill by the lack of oil, but too few of us ever consider what the consequences for our economy would be if water were not available. We can search for oil and we can also plan for alternative sources of energy, but for water there is no alternative. I want to allege, without fear of contradiction, that water is of strategic importance as a production factor in our industries, in our mining industry, in our agricultural industry, indeed, in all facets of our national economy. To me, this is self-evident Hon. members will therefore realize why there is great concern about the alarming staff position in the Department of Water Affairs. I should like to quote a few figures in connection with the resignation of staff. I shall begin with engineers. In 1976, 24 engineers left the service of the department in 1977, the number was 28, and in 1978, it was 49. This year, between 1 January and the end of April, 29 engineers have already left the service of the department At the present rate of resignation, the department will lose more than 90 engineers this year, while it gained only 39 from the appointments made at the end of the 1978 study year. Between October and December 1978, 43 administrative officials and technicians left the service. In the Civil Drawing Services Division, 23 technicians resigned during 1978, and only 10 new appointments could be made. The Department of Water Affairs has 186 bursaries available for 1979, for undergraduate study in all the relevant disciplines. However, only 77 bursaries had been awarded to suitable candidates at the beginning of the year. Approximately 80 students with bursaries from the department had been expected to graduate during 1978 and to enter the service of the department, but in actual fact, only 39 of that number had entered the service of the department by the end of February. This is indeed a sombre picture. One must bear in mind that engineers and technicians are the key men in the process of water supply. Therefore it is appropriate to pay tribute on this occasion to those officials who faithfully continue to serve in spite of their depleted numbers, and who in many cases perform almost supernatural feats, through the supply of water, in keeping the wheels of our economic life turning, in the interests of our survival.

If we have to look for the seasons for this staff problem, arising from resignations and retirements, I want to state very emphatically that it must not be attributed to poor treatment or poor conditions of service in the department I know what I am talking about, because my own son is an engineer in the service of the Department of Water Affairs. Sir, the reason lies in the high salaries offered by the private sector in order to attract technicians and engineers in particular. In some cases, they offer more than twice the amount which the Public Service can offer. Therefore I want to put a few questions to members of the private sector on this occasion. The first is: If those who offer the officials, engineers, and technicians of the Department of Water Affairs such attractive salaries have so much money available to them, why do they not institute their own bursary schemes in order to train their own engineers and technicians? The second question I want to put to these members of the private sector is: When they entice away these people, do they consider the fact that this will cause them to discover one fine day that there is no water supply for their industries and the industries of many others, because there is no key staff left at the Department of Water Affairs? To the staff of the Department of Water Affairs who want to leave its service, I want to say: They must remember that they find themselves in a key industry for the economic growth and welfare of their fatherland and that they are just as important as the man who defends our country’s borders with his gun in his hand.

We want to address a friendly and courteous but also a very urgent request to the Public Service Commission to allow the Department of Water Affairs to do its recruiting independently. This department is doing work of strategic importance, i.e. the supply of water. I want to take this opportunity of asking our young men to take their places in the front-line of our national economy and to qualify themselves as engineers or technicians for service in the Department of Water Affairs, in order to help supply our country with water.

Mr. Chairman, several hon. members have today sung the praises of their native regions. I suppose every man considers his own area the most beautiful. However, this is a statement which is difficult to prove. The statement I want to make now is that the area I come from is the one in our country which has the most abundant supply of water.

Our fatherland has a wealth of natural resources and there are few things which we lack. However, we have a shortage of two things which can have serious consequences for us, or may even be fatal for us. These are, firstly, the shortage of water and, secondly, the shortage of energy. We are not yet experiencing a water crisis, but we are already talking about an energy crisis, which may have serious consequences for us.

South Africa has 330 irrigations schemes at the moment. It is estimated that approximately 30% of the country’s food and raw materials for the manufacture of clothes are cultivated under irrigation. Therefore we can see how important irrigation is in agriculture.

Studies of the water requirements of plants and of irrigation methods have revealed that a great deal of water can be saved by applying other methods of irrigation than those of flood irrigation. In order to save water, we must look at the other methods; not only methods of irrigation, but also methods of combating the problems of water-logged soil and mineralization. We have adopted the modem method of sprinkle irrigation. However, sprinkle irrigation requires electric power, which is also in short supply.

Generally speaking, South Africa is an arid country, and for that reason, the presence of water resources is of very great importance. In 1970, a commission of inquiry found that 40% of the water in the Republic of South Africa which could be used was already being used in 1975. The commission warned even at that time that we would have to be very careful in allocating our available supplies.

I want to discuss the position in Natal. Natal, which lies to the east of the Drakensberg, has abundant supplies of water. It has been found that the rivers of Natal contain 25% of the total amount of run-off water in the Republic. Because of the low evaporation of stored water in Natal, the rivers of Natal contain more than 40% of all the water in South Africa, while the province covers only 7% of the surface area. It is a well-known fact that only 14% of South Africa has a rainfall of more than 760 mm a year, while 90% of Natal lies in the high rainfall area.

I now wish to refer to the most important consumer of water. I have already referred to irrigation. Cities and industries are also important consumers of water. Provincial Administrations allow people to use the dams for recreation. A very important matter raised by the hon. member for De Aar is the generation of hydro-electric power.

I just want to take a look at our available supplies in this connection, and whether we can in fact utilize this resource. The only hydro-electric power we have in South Africa at the moment is the Cabora Bassa Scheme, which is very shaky. We buy the power there. Just as in the case of oil, however, this is a source of energy which could be cut off at any moment However, there are great possibilities in Northern Natal with regard to the generation of hydro-electricity. I am talking about a scientific survey that was recently made—I am not sucking the figures out of my thumb—and we may take the Pongolapoort Dam as an example. It is estimated that if a dam were built in the high-lying regions, in the upper reaches of the Pongola River—the area in the mountains where the river flows faster and down a steeper slope; in other words, higher up than the present dam— approximately 10 km to the north of the small town of Louwsburg, it would need only a short wall to push up the water approximately 7 km. The most important consideration, however, is that 500 Mw electricity could be generated at that point.

If a wall with a height of 43 metres were built in the Mkuzi River, it would create a hydro-electric potential of 430 Mw. A dam wall with a height of 49 metres in the Black Umfolozi River—and I just want to point out that because of the depth of the rivers in Natal, the dam walls are usually not very wide—would create a hydro-electric potential of 600 Mw. A wall in the White Umfolozi which is 32 metres high and 305 metres long would be able to generate 120 Mw of electricity. It is also calculated that a dam wall in the Tugela River, the biggest river in Natal, would be able to generate 5 200 Mw. Therefore, when we add up the hydro-electric potential in Northern Natal—only that of the five rivers to which I have referred—we arrive at 6 850 Mw, as against the 320 Mw which is now generated at the Hendrik Verwoerd Dam.

In the USA, there is the TVA plant, for example, which generates 3 500 Mw, and in the Snowey Mountains, in Australia, there is a plant which generates 3 800 Mw. Then there is the Cabora Bassa scheme, where 4 000 Mw is generated. Therefore the Tugela scheme could be bigger than the Cabora Bassa scheme. For this reason I want to ask the hon. the Minister whether we should not give serious attention to further storage of water in Natal. Water is abundant there and it is in the interests of the whole country to conserve it in order to counter the shortage of water and energy. My request is that when future dams are built, this aspect of the hydro-electric power should also be borne in mind, because it is in the national interest.

Before I conclude, I want to ask the hon. the Minister how much progress has been made with the planning of the dam in the Umfolozi River. Finally, I want to join the other hon. members in thanking the hon. the Minister and the department, with their 300 engineers—as I saw somewhere—who work as a team and who are doing very important work in our country.

Mr. Chairman, we appreciate the interesting speech made by the hon. member for Vryheid, and I agree with him that there is a very fine region in northern Natal, with its good water supply, waiting for development Further to the speech made by the hon. member for Ermelo earlier today about the Usutu/Vaal scheme, the source of Secunda and the industries to be established in that area, I should like to address a few words to the hon. the Minister and the department I want to point out that the Grootdraai Dam and the irrigation systems had to be built at short notice and that in spite of this, a great deal has been achieved. The first important point of departure was the cooperation of the community. This dam was built in a developed area and the canal and pipelines traverse an agricultural area where agriculture is practised fairly intensively. The canals run along the contour slopes of that area and wind across the farms. Hon. members may therefore expect that these people have been disrupted, because such activities have a disruptive effect on the industry of a small farming unit I can assure the hon. the Minister today that because of the attitude shown by the Secretary and the officials and engineers of the department, the most cordial co-operation was obtained from that community. This facilitated the work there, and we want to express our heartfelt thanks to those people for the attitude they fostered there.

A further point I should like to raise is that the work programme is going according to the proposed schedule, in spite of problems which could not have been foreseen. 6 March this year was a red-letter day for us, because on that early date, water was supplied to Secunda from that source in the Vaal River by means of a temporary pipeline. In my opinion, this was a great achievement. We trust that permanent water will be supplied to Secunda on 5 October this year, according to plan. This achievement is a source of pride to our department. But this is not the only source of pride and the only achievement of these people, because they are also doing a very great deal to economize. As the work is completed within the estimated programme, inflation does not have an opportunity to push up costs.

Another aspect which is very illuminating in this connection is the accident rate at that great project. Those of us who often visit such sites know that the sites are uneven and that explosives are used. Surely the engineers and officials who are responsible there cannot constantly supervise the way a vehicle, a piece of equipment or an implement is driven or handled. In April this year, there were only seven accidents, as against a figure of 321 085 working hours. Percentagewise, this is 0,34%, and this is indeed a very low accident rate. It hardly interferes with the work at all. This is a special achievement when one considers the possibility of accidents at that site because of situations which cannot always be controlled. I thought it my duty to mention the matter in this House on behalf of those people and to convey our thanks to the department, the secretariat, the engineers and all others responsible for that project.

There is just one more remark I want to make about South Africa’s water requirements, an aspect which has already been raised in this debate. We have very great expectations of the programme of weather modification. We know that large-scale experiments are being conducted in the lowveld. However, history is still with us. In November 1972, the lowveld was struck by a hail storm. The hon. the Minister should remember it At eleven that morning, the weather bureau had stated that there was only a 0,5% possibility of hail that day. That same afternoon, many crops were totally destroyed.

There is a further problem which I foresee. If we were to “milk” the clouds when they come over the Drakensberg, and this old cow were to dry up even more, what would become of the regions further away?

We shall leave one teat for them. [Interjections.]

We do not have enough control to leave one teat of that cow full of milk. This is a question which I put to the hon. the Minister. Our major source of water is the sea. The ocean is our major source. In that respect, we want to express our appreciation for the great work done by the Water Research Commission in co-operation with other bodies. We are concerned here with an extensive field in which much can be achieved. We have oil pipelines today running from Durban to the Witwatersrand. In the same way, we ought to have pipelines conducting sea water from the coast to the interior, when developments have to take place. Our technology and development in that field of research simply have to be such that we are able to exploit that resource. By means of the ion exchange process, the Department of Chemical Engineering of the University of Cape Town is already doing brilliant work in this field. I am thinking, for example, of the work done at Swakopmund in co-operation with the CSIR, where interesting research is being conducted by means of the reverse osmosis process. At the moment, this may be regarded as uneconomic. However, it may just be that this resource will be our major resource in the future.

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Standerton is now stealing all our water from Natal, from the Tugela River. And he even wants to “milk” the clouds before they cross the mountains.

Soon he will take the sea as well. [Interjections.]

I should prefer to speak about the solutions to problems, and not about the problems themselves. However, I do have a small problem which I shall put to the hon. the Minister later on. It is not, however, of his creation, but that of the provincial regime of the NRP in Natal. [Interjections.]

If one takes cognizance of the fact that our water resources are dwindling, we cannot but look across the mountains. The hon. member for Vryheid spoke very well about the rivers in Northern Natal. I think, however, that I can boast. I have reason to boast. I should like to refer to an article in Tegniek of February 1979. There we read the following—

It is stated further—

A map accompanies this article—this is my part of the world—and underneath it in bold type is stated that the area between Port Edward in the south and Durban in the north may be regarded as the largest unutilized water area in South Africa. [Interjections.] I just want to refer to an investigation carried out by the Town and Regional Planning Commission in Natal. Their report is entitled “Water Resources of the Natal South Coast”. In the conclusions they arrive at they say, inter alia—

It is these South Coast rivers that we must consider for a while. They have beautiful names, and I think that I might as well mention the names so that we can listen to them. I believe that they will still become household names in South Africa. They are going to solve the problem as well. I can mention names such as the Umkomaas, Umtwalume, Umzimkulu, Umzumbi, Imbezana, Umzinto, Umtanvuna, Uvongo, Ifafa, Zotsha, Umpambanyoni, Umlaas and the Umbogintwini. [Interjections.] These are beautiful names. Each one has a beautiful meaning. If one knows what the names mean, one realizes that they mean rivers containing clean water. It is pure, sweet and wonderful water.

In view of this study one can examine these areas more closely. Provisionally, 16 dam sites have been identified. The flow of water into these dams is almost two milliard gallons per day. The average annual run-off of water at average sites and dams is 617 000 morgen feet at the Umzimkulu River. At the Umkomaas River it is 411 000 morgen feet, and at the Umtamvuna River 96 000 morgen feet. [Interjections.]

The storage capacity of these dams is, inter alia, 620 000 morgen feet at the Umzimkulu River. In this manner I can continue to refer to other dams, which vary from 100 000 to 400 000 morgen feet.

The hon. member for De Aar referred to the number of megawatts that can be generated by way of hydro-electricity in the Vaal Triangle. This, however, is chicken feed compared to the amount of megawatts these rivers can generate. I think it is very necessary to examine the possibilities of these rivers.

So much, then, for the solution to the problems of the hon. the Minister. I give it to him for what it is worth.

I think I should mention a problem we have in Natal. On the South Coast of Natal there is a creation of the NRP provincial council. It is known as the Lower South Coast Region Water Corporation. This is a very long name. [Interjections.] A few years ago, when I was involved in township development, it cost me R50 per plot before I could get the approval for the subdivision of the plots. At present, however, it is R300 per plot, or 5% of the selling price, whichever is the highest. Therefore, if one sells one’s plot at R100 000, one has to pay these people R5 000 before they give their approval. However, it does not end there.

Last week a friend of mine had a small block of six small flats built. He had to pay a connection fee of more than R4 000. A little while ago a man wanted to build a hotel in Margate. He came to see me about it. The connection fee he would have had to pay for the hotel would have been more than R50 000. [Interjections.] This is what this creation of the NRP in Natal entails.

The worst was when they came forward with certain proposed ordinances last week. One really cannot believe it. Their preconceived plan—and the hon. member for Mooi River referred to it in passing; unfortunately I was only able to hear the tailend of it—is now to assess people according to the maximum consumption tariff. This means, briefly, that a caravan camp that is completely full in December is assessed for the whole year according to the water consumption in the month in which it was full. Although the caravan camp is almost empty in January and there are hardly any people, it is assessed according to the tariff when the camp was full. This procedure effectively kills all development in the Lower South Coast area. Eighty per cent of the people living there are elderly, poor pensioners. They are now being saddled with high rates. [Interjections.]

I should like to put a few questions to the hon. the Minister. In the first place can he tell me whether he can intervene in terms of existing legislation to end this exploitation of the pensioners and, in the second place, if not, whether he can introduce legislation to place these water resources under the control of the Central Government? The Government has experienced and able staff who can see to it that the pensioners are not exploited in the process or that the development there is not stopped. The hon. the Minister referred to the fact that we have the water as well as the labour in Natal. I believe that the only thing needed is an NP provincial government, and this will come and inundate Natal in the same way as the floodwaters do.

Mr. Chairman, we have come to the end of a very intensive discussion in which a large number of members participated. They made fine contributions. It is difficult for me to reply in detail to everyone’s representations, but I shall nevertheless try to give attention to every hon. member. I had intended to say more about matters of general interest affecting my department and about the wide range of services it renders, but I think it would be better if I first gave attention to the representations made to me by the hon. members.

Firstly, I want to reply to the hon. member for Wynberg. This hon. member referred to surpluses of agricultural products. I am not going to argue with him about that All I want to tell him is that when there is competition for the available funds and expertise to keep schemes going and to build new ones, we naturally cannot build schemes which will produce a product of which there is already an over-supply or which is already giving rise to problems. The hon. member also asked for information concerning the Simonsberg canal and referred to the high cost of land which the canal will traverse and said that the department’s calculation of R30 million might be too low. He also wanted to know what the value of the land was.

†He mentioned a figure of up to R10 000 per hectare and said that in eight to ten years’ time, when the scheme may be completed, this figure could be even higher. He also asked that people should be given adequate notice. Firstly, I think the people concerned did receive adequate notice. A lot of information was made available to agricultural unions and the Press. Meetings were also held in connection with this scheme.

*However, the position is that we need more time to work out the finer details and that we cannot make all the particulars available now. As far as the land value is concerned, I want to tell him that I shall not venture to say what that land is going to cost. According to my department, approximately 300 ha will be required for the canal work. Even if it costs R3 000, it is only a small percentage of the total cost However, we do not determine the land value, so it would be very risky for me to guess or to predict what the cost is going to be. Even if it is rather high, it will not greatly affect the total cost of the scheme. He said that we should give further particulars concerning the outlets for the water and that the cost of the water should be investigated. However, this scheme has not yet been worked out in all its particulars. With the shortage of staff in the department, I cannot promise that we can make available all the details years in advance, but progress is being made with the planning. So the hon. member will just have to ask questions about this from time to time. In any event, the department furnishes particulars as they become available. Usually, the department makes them available to the agricultural union concerned.

The question of the cost of water is a delicate matter, of course, and one on which I should very much like to elaborate, especially in connection with agriculture. One of the things that I want to bring home to hon. members is that water is expensive. In practice, the scarcity of a product is reflected by its price. If we kept down the price of water artificially—and I do not know how I could do this, because I simply do not have the money for it; the State does not have so much money at its disposal that we can make cheap water available everywhere—it would cause water to be wasted. People would say that it is cheap and readily available. Then they would leave the taps and the sluice-gates open, because they would not be paying for the extra water they used, after all. Everywhere, in our urban areas as well, we must take cognizance of the fact that there is no scale according to which a consumer pays less per unit if he uses more water. He should rather pay more per unit if he uses more water. This may not be applicable in all cases, but I think we should nevertheless take cognizance of it. My department holds the same view of the matter as far as irrigation is concerned. Indeed, in the future, when a farmer uses more than a specific amount of water for a basic area, we shall have to consider making him pay more per unit for the extra water. I think that would make our people more aware of the fact that water is a scarce commodity. The hon. member holds out the prospect of 18 cents per cubic metre. I do not think we should argue about that. It will be a long time before that scheme is finished. It may be that water will not be so expensive then. However, I just want to point out that that water is a supplementary supply, and that is the way we should see it A farmer who wants to begin irrigation farming at a cost of 18 cents per cubic metre—it does not matter what he is producing—must realize that this is very expensive water for agricultural production. However, if it is only a supplementary supply—accounting for 5%, 10% or 20%, perhaps—and if, because of special circumstances, it can considerably increase production, it could be profitable. Therefore every farmer will have to take a good look at his own circumstances. I want to assure the hon. member, however, that we shall make details available to the farmers as soon as possible.

The hon. member for Caledon expressed his appreciation for our co-operation in helping Caledon to establish a new industry. I am glad that my department was able to be of assistance there. The hon. member also has the problem, a problem shared by other hon. members, that with the influx of people to our coastal areas during holidays, there is a large demand for water, as a result of which the coastal towns have to establish schemes which must be paid for in part by the permanent inhabitants of those towns. This is a matter which should be investigated. I have submitted the question of water supply to the Browne Committee which the hon. the Minister of Finance has appointed. My department can make a specific contribution according to existing formulae. Further than that we cannot go.

The hon. member also referred to the large number of non-Whites who use water in that area. This is a matter which falls under the Department of Coloured Relations. We have also brought it to their attention. No water meters have been installed in the Coloured houses. One does not begrudge them their water, but this may cause them to waste their water because they do not really pay for it. It is mainly the White community that pays for that water.

The hon. member also referred to the proposed rural water supply scheme for the Western Rûensveld, through which 400 farms with a total area of 190 000 ha will be supplied with water. As I said this morning with reference to the speech of the hon. member for Swellendam, this looks like a promising scheme to me. I hope and trust that we shall receive the necessary money to embark upon this scheme within the foreseeable future. More I cannot promise him. In fact, I want to tell all hon. members that I cannot promise anything, except that my department and I will do our very best to solve the problems we are faced with.

The hon. member for Oudtshoorn referred to the large amounts of money that had been spent on waterworks from the outset. He made it clear that South Africans would have to realize that water cannot be wasted. He also referred to the approach of the department and myself, i.e. that we should to some extent give preference to the existing water schemes or, to put it differently, that if we have a shortage of funds, we try rather to keep going the people who are already settled than to embark upon new schemes and allow existing ones to deteriorate. This is in fact my approach. The hon. member also said that socio-economic circumstances should be taken into consideration. In this connection he suggested that a commission of inquiry be appointed on which other departments would also serve. In my opinion, this is a very interesting approach. He referred, inter alia, to old and deteriorating irrigation areas. I do not think my department can be blamed for the development of such conditions. We do our best A great deal of money has been spent at Oudtshoorn, for example. There are areas where irrigation has been laid on with an absolute minimum of water. As regards the hon. member’s request that we should appoint a commission, I want to assure him that we are already making use of permanent committees in this connection. Also, there is close co-operation between the Ministry of Agriculture and myself. There is a ministerial committee on agricultural affairs. On Tuesday, the hon. the Minister of Agriculture referred again to the fact that there is cordial co-operation on the ministerial level as well. When one of us has problems, we meet to discuss them. We visit areas together. In addition, there is an interdepartmental committee on irrigation and one on drainage. There is also a co-ordinating committee for irrigation research. So there are four or five committees, from the Minister down, to co-ordinate irrigation matters with Agriculture. For investigations of new irrigation areas and of soil quality, we depend on the Department of Agricultural Technical Services. The Department of Water Affairs cannot simply embark upon a scheme just because we would like to irrigate an area. We must make sure, and say so in the White Paper, that there is sufficient land available for irrigation. I thank the hon. member for his stimulating remarks, but in the light of what I have just said, I do not know whether we need any more committees or commissions. The investigative work for which he wanted a commission to be appointed is already being done by the existing committees on an on-going basis. However, as I have said, I think it was a very stimulating proposal which he made.

The hon. member for Algoa referred to the question of recreation. The building and operation of dams are the responsibility of the Department of Water Affairs, but it is the policy of the department not to control recreational activities on or around the dams itself. This is a task which is entrusted to the various provincial administrations. I appreciate his reference to it. He emphasized the fact that recreation is an important by-product of dams. He also said that apart from using the dam itself for recreation, its environs can also be made more attractive. He pleaded that we should create recreational facilities for our non-White communities, especially those in the Cape Province, and that we should then encourage them to make use of them. He pointed out that the provincial administrations did not have money for this and that the Department of Water Affairs might be of assistance. If he had been here this morning, he would have heard me and other hon. members complain about our shortage of funds, so I do not think we can make any contribution in that connection. On the other hand, however, I want to point out that the provincial administrations are doing excellent work as far as this aspect is concerned.

I want to refer briefly to dams which have already been transferred to the various provincial administrations. I think hon. members would be interested in this. The following dams have been transferred to the Cape Provincial Administration: The Buffelsjagt Dam on 4 October 1973; the Rooikrans Dam on 6 December 1973; the part of the Hendrik Verwoerd Dam on the Cape side— control over the rest has been transferred to the Orange Free State and I shall refer to this later; the Stompdrif Dam in 1975; the Clanwilliam Dam in 1975; the Kommandodrif Dam; the Loerie Dam; the Poortjeskloof Dam; and the P. K. Le Roux Dam. Control over the P. K. Le Roux Dam is also shared. The one side is controlled by the provincial administration of the Orange Free State and the other by the provincial administration of the Cape. They have agreed about how the dam is going to be operated.

The following dams have been transferred to the provincial administration of Natal: the Wagendrift Dam on 8 January 1973; the Chelmsford Dam on 9 January 1973; the Midmar Dam on 12 March 1973; the Albert Falls Dam in 1973; the Spioenkop Dam in 1974; the Craigie Bum Dam in 1977; and the Hazelmere Dam in 1977.

The following dams have been handed over to the provincial administration of the Orange Free State: the Rustfontein Dam; the Krugersdrift Dam in 1973; the part of the Hendrik Verwoerd Dam on the Free State side; the Welbedacht Dam; the Allemanskraal Dam; the Koppies Dam; the Kalkfontein Dam; the Bloemhof Dam; and the Erfenis Dam. Considerable development has been undertaken at these dams by the provincial administration of the Free State.

I could also refer to the facilities created for the non-White population by the various provincial administrations, but I do not think we have time to go into this in detail. The department has prepared a bulky report for me. I can only assure the hon. member for Algoa that the matter to which he referred is one to which all provincial administrations are giving attention. The other day I saw a newspaper report in which the impression was created that Natal had done much more for the non-White population than the other provinces. I do not think we should conduct a political debate about this. I just want to say, however, that in my opinion, every province has made splendid progress in its own right in trying to make facilities available to the various population groups. However, there is still room for improvement. There is also the fact that the various population groups are not all so keen to make use of facilities provided at great cost I think one should deal with these matters as the need arises.

As far as the Transvaal is concerned, the Loskop Dam, the Roodeplaat Dam, the Doringdraai Dam, the Fanie Botha Dam, the Boskop Dam, the Hartebeespoort Dam, the Rustdewinter Dam, the Bronkhorstspruit Dam, the Jericho Dam, the Bloemhof Dam and the Blyde River Dam have all been transferred to the Transvaal, and the Jan Wassenaar Dam and the Pongola Poort Dam are still in the process of being transferred. We shall have to wait until the Pongola Poort Dam is full before we transfer it, but the province concerned can start planning. Each province has to submit a plan of its proposed development. Therefore the hon. member for Algoa may feel satisfied that great progress has in fact been made in connection with these facilities, and if he thinks that matters should be speeded up even more, he will have to appeal to the provinces.

May I ask the hon. the Minister whether it is a confidential document and whether we may have a copy of it?

No, there is nothing confidential about it. I can make a copy available to the hon. member.

May I also have a copy?

Yes, I shall make two copies available. These two hon. members should just remind my private secretary of this.

The hon. member for Mooi River also mentioned the question of the problems of holidaymakers, a matter which was raised by the hon. member for Caledon as well. The only solution we have for this is that the Browne Committee has to say what should be done in this connection. I am approached by representatives of holiday resorts who allege that they have to establish these expensive schemes for holidaymakers and then the permanent inhabitants are left with the obligations. This is also the problem of the hon. member for South Coast, but there is nothing the department can do about it. The Department of Water Affairs cannot do anything about this problem, apart from the ordinary assistance which they are allowed to render under the present legislation. However, this matter has been brought to the attention of the Browne Committee, which has to consider the cost of water as well. There are certain areas where it is very expensive to supply water, such as the rural areas around Bloemfontein, where a very large number of stands have been subdivided and the people are now having problems. They have established water schemes, but the water is very expensive. The Department of Water Affairs can only contribute a certain percentage. People are also complaining about sewerage schemes. The Department of Health sets certain requirements, but we must admit that a sewerage scheme is a water scheme. The hon. member for Meyerton is aware of the problems in his town. These are all matters about which we expect the Browne Committee to give a decisive answer, so that we may receive new formulas in terms of which we may render further assistance to the communities.

†The hon. member for Mooi River wants to know whether it is a piezometer or a piezometer. He wants to know which pronunciation is correct. Well, it is an instrument to measure water pressures and is required to monitor the development of water pressures inside the dams in order to check the safety of the dams.

I feel doubly safe now.

It is doubly safe having this instrument in the dam wall. The hon. member also referred to the fact that the Vaal Dam originally cost R1,8 million and to the fact that we are now spending R25 million on it After all these years of depreciation, what was spent originally has very little effect on the present cost. I do not know exactly what amount of the original capital investment is left, but I think it would really have very little influence compared to the total costs of R25 million that is now being spent I can ask the department to give the hon. member an indication. Maybe there is still some capital not redeemed, but I can assure him that it will be an insignificant amount.

Can I write them a letter to find out?

Yes. I think the hon. member can do that if that will satisfy him.

The hon. member experiences difficulty with what he called a levy against flooding &

I find that I cannot give any guarantee.

I am not going to guarantee anything when it comes to the weather, and I have already told the hon. member that. The weather forecasters can try to give guarantees, but I will not do it, not even for 24 hours ahead. I know the weather. This is a very difficult matter. I do not know whether the hon. member’s assumption that they pay a levy against floods is correct. The Secretary says it is so. With this new planning we shall be in a position to manipulate the situation up to a certain point, but I shall go into that again, because I do not like the idea at all. However, there may be a motivation for this that I was not aware of. I think I have now dealt with all the hon. member’s arguments, and if I have skipped anything, he can bring it directly to the notice of the department.

*The hon. member for Humansdorp gave us an interesting talk about weather modification. He also referred, inter alia, to the increase in water consumption, the cost of desalination of sea water, and he wanted to know whether enough research was being done in this connection. I do not think we can ever do enough research in this connection. If we could do ten times as much research, I suppose it would still be in order. To answer the hon. member’s question in practical and realistic terms, I can only tell him that I should like us to do even more research. But even if we made more money available for this, the problem lies in recruiting enough skilled people, people who can be dedicated researchers and who can carry out useful research. We cannot afford to make money available for research while the people do not have the necessary skills. As a trained scientist, the hon. member should know that not all people are researchers. Our problem, here, therefore, is that we do not have enough trained people to do this research. Making available more money will not necessarily lead to more research, therefore. The Water Research Commission is recruiting people overseas for its various research projects. Even this is creating problems, because it remains difficult to get the right people. However, I can assure the hon. member that we are doing everything in our power to improve the position.

The hon. member for Heilbron referred, inter alia, to money made available for the Renoster River Scheme at Koppies. I shall be grateful when the Koppies Scheme is completed, because I was there a few years ago and I realize that it is a very old scheme by now. I find it regrettable that the scheme has not yet been completed, but we must remember that it is a very difficult scheme because the water runs on the same level as the fields. One therefore needs a special construction to raise the water level so that it can be led to the fields. I want to express the hope that we shall be able to solve all the problems there within two or three years. The hon. member also made a very interesting reference to the direct correlation between the available water and crops. He also said that only 5% of the moisture in clouds eventually found its way to the soil. This is a figure which was worked out in general to ascertain the potential value of rain stimulation. The hon. member quoted some very interesting data in this connection which he had received from Sentraoes. He also alleged that these projects were just as important as the search for oil. I want to agree with the hon. member about this and to express the hope once again that we shall have the co-operation of our communities. One can search for oil without disturbing other people, but it is not easy to do research on rain stimulation without disturbing people or making them feel that they are being prejudiced. Therefore it is a delicate matter, and our people will just have to learn to live with it.

The hon. member for Marico referred to the underground water, especially in the Bushveld, where people establish irrigation schemes and use water injudiciously. By using bore-hole water injudiciously, for example, they land themselves in trouble. The hon. member wanted to know whether there was any legal provision to prevent such practices and whether the department was taking action to prevent them. He also mentioned the possibilities of irrigation from the Marico, Krokodil and Matlabas Rivers. The possibility of irrigation schemes from those rivers has already been investigated. Unfortunately, water is not so readily available that large irrigation schemes can be established there. However, the department will furnish the necessary particulars in due course—I am thinking in particular of Derdepoort—and see whether it cannot make a contribution there. The department believes that irrigation and more intensive farming in that area may help to combat the problem with terrorists.

With regard to the protection of underground sources of water I just want to point out that steps are in fact being taken to proclaim underground water areas controlled by the State. In several such areas, there is now a restriction on the use of water from boreholes. However, it is not the idea to impose such restrictions all over the country. An area must first be proclaimed an underground state water control area before such a step can be taken. The artesian basin of Uitenhage and the water control area of the Molopo, as well as the Baden area at Montagu, are areas which have been proclaimed as such. However, the hon. member will agree with me that it will not be practicable for the department to try to exercise control over underground water all over the country. Therefore, if the hon. member believes that there are problems in his constituency or in adjoining areas where the department should in fact exercise effective control, he had better bring it to our attention.

The hon. member for Orange Grove also conveyed his good wishes to Dr. Kriel and Dr. Stander. I greatly appreciate this. He referred again to water schemes in Black areas. I can assure him that my department is available to render assistance with these schemes wherever possible. Indeed, I believe that this is a matter which we can fruitfully discuss again, perhaps with the co-operation of the Department of Co-operation and Development, because my department has the necessary skills. We are in fact doing construction work at the moment in the Gazankulu territory.

Furthermore, the hon. member referred to the sharp rise in the cost of the Goedertrouw Dam. It has already been mentioned that in the sphere of construction work, costs have escalated more than in other spheres. However, I want to tell hon. members frankly that when this figure was brought to my attention, my hair stood on end. I discussed it with the Secretary to my department Unfortunately, quite a number of factors contribute to this. It is a matter to which the hon. member for Standerton also referred. If we can begin building as soon as we have completed the planning and made the cost calculation and as soon as a White Paper has been submitted to Parliament, it would be in order. Now a White Paper is sometimes made available and then the budget is curtailed, and we have to wait years before construction can commence. If we could begin at once, it would be possible to complete the work more cheaply and more effectively. Now it sometimes happens, too, that costs are curtailed when construction has already commenced. This means that the work proceeds more slowly, which causes the cost to increase.

Other factors also play a part. In my opinion, something went wrong in the planning with regard to the amount of earth that was available and would be suitable for building a dam wall. I believe that errors may have been committed. One drills holes and one does tests, only to find out in the end—when one really goes to work on the site—that earth is not available in the quantities in which it initially seemed to be. That is all I want to say. I just want to add that there has not been any negligence and the planning is being done as carefully as possible. However, there are several factors which have caused these problems.

Mr. Chairman, may T suggest to the hon. the Minister that the White Papers that are submitted are in fact not serving the purpose for which they were intended and that a better system could be launched to advise Parliament of what is being intended by the department, without going into all that detail, which is not always true?

I did not refer to the request of the hon. member concerning the White Papers. I shall still come to that. However, the intention of a White Paper is to give a detailed report in connection with the construction of the scheme.

To persuade Parliament to vote the money.

Well, if we make it too simple and give less information, we are in for criticism again. Therefore, I think this is something …

[Inaudible.]

In this case the first White Paper was tabled in 1973. The hon. member cannot compare the costs of seven years ago with the costs of today. In the meantime we did get more information. Therefore I do not think that by submitting a simpler White Paper—this is what the hon. member asked for—we can really solve the problem. I think we have to accept that we have a problem regarding this matter. I do not yet have a solution, but I do not in any event think that a simpler White Paper would serve any purpose. These White Papers are used by other people too and they contain a fair amount of information.

*The hon. member for Orange Grove was very excited about the Umfolozi River. I just want to assure him that I am just as concerned as he is about nature conservation. However, we must be careful not to lose our balance, as people do about weather modification. We must not all start chanting in unison. I have met the Executive Committee of Natal about this matter and I shall have talks with them again.

†The hon. member also asked whether the committee of inquiry into ecological effects had reported yet. The reply is that we have not had a report yet. Somebody from the Natal Parks Board is still investigating. It is a very difficult study. However, we cannot say beforehand what the ecological effect will be, until we know where the dam will be situated. He said that we must first find out what the ecological effect will be and then decide where the dam will be situated. If we argue that way we shall argue in circles. We usually have a vague idea where a dam should be built.

The hon. member asked that I must give him the assurance that the dam could not be built in the Umfolozi River, I cannot give that assurance. I am sorry, but Parliament will have to decide on that. However, what I can tell him is that I shall go back to these people and discuss the matter with them. Once we have all the information, we shall make a decision. The question of the ecology in certain areas will have to be weighed up against certain costs.

Mr. Chairman, it is not clear to me, and to other people as well, what that water is exactly going to be used for. Could the hon. the Minister perhaps enlighten us about that?

After all the hysteria about the matter, I explained the position in detail to the Executive Committee of Natal. The department has to plan far in advance. This goes for Natal as well. We cannot wait until we find ourselves in crisis situations. The department is ascertaining all over the country where development is going to take place, where there are water resources and where a dam can be built. It is clear that there is going to be tremendous development in Natal. The potential is there. One must make sure that when development comes, one will not have to run around looking for a place where a dam can be built. All these rivers are investigated as a part of the ordinary investigative programme, and I want to tell the hon. member that the small amount of damage which is being done there by making a small road here or there is of minor importance.

Is there any immediate necessity for the water?

There is no immediate necessity for the water and I told people that. We have to make these investigations to plan properly. That is all that is being done. Once we have the information we will come to Parliament. Parliament will have to take the final decision. In the meantime I will go to the provincial authorities in Natal, as I have already done, to explain the position.

*I do not think people should get too excited about matters which do not call for such excitement. I ask the hon. member to stay calm about the matter and to be confident that my department, the committee that has been appointed and I will consider this matter very carefully, together with the Natal Parks Board.

The hon. member for Kimberley North referred to the problems of the department and the loss of staff. The figure he mentioned is correct. He also said that the private sector should make more bursaries available for training and should not entice away the department’s staff. I fully agree with him and I hope that his words will make an impression.

The hon. member for Vryheid concentrated on the possibilities of power generation and spoke of the melodious Zulu names for rivers in Natal, such as the Black Umfolozi, the White Umfolozi, the Umkuzi and others. I want to tell him that it is not the task of my department to generate power. That is a matter for Escom. I know the Tugela has great potential, but the more or less 6 000 Mw to which he referred can only be generated for a short time, according to the experts in my department. I am told that the full-time power generation will be closer to 1 000 Mw. But as I have said, that is a matter for Escom rather than for my department. When dams are built, however, my department takes these matters into consideration.

The hon. member for Standerton referred to the co-operation there had been with the supply of water to Secunda. When I became aware of the fact that there would have to be expropriation, I enlisted the hon. member’s aid. I wish to thank him for the assistance he gave me in places where we had to obtain the co-operation of farmers. I also want to thank him for his kind words to the department and his contribution about the small number of accidents which occur. Furthermore, he referred to weather modification and also said that it might be better to desalinate sea water. He is thinking of the danger that if one farmer “milks” a cloud, his neighbour may end up with a dry cow. In this connection I want to refer him to the figures mentioned here, i.e. that only 5% of the moisture in the air normally precipitates in the form of rain. If we can increase this by 20%, it would still not harm the neighbour.

I also want to thank the hon. member for South Coast for his contribution. He has a problem with water resources from Durban to Port Edward. He said that the Lower South Coast Regional Water Corporation set certain requirements. I do not want to express any opinion on this, but as I have already said, a part of his problem is being investigated by the Browne Committee appointed by the hon. the Minister of Finance. My department is aware of the fact that in certain cases, water boards should be established which should perhaps look after those areas instead of a regional water corporation. However, I cannot do anything about the cost. I do not think my department or I have the power to interfere with that.

With that I think I have replied as fully as possible to all the matters that were raised. Once again I want to express my great appreciation for the positive contributions made by hon. members in a very constructive and pleasant debate.

Vote agreed to.

Vote No. 31.—“Forestry”:

Mr. Chairman, I know it is late on this Friday afternoon, but there is a matter of considerable importance that I should like the hon. the Minister to exercise his mind on. I think that it has become more and more apparent that there is a vital necessity to get a single growers’ organization operating in South Africa. There seems to be a great inability on the part of the S.A. Timber Growers’ Association, largely representing smaller growers, on the one side and the Forest Owners’ Association on the other side, to get together to form a single growers’ organization. I believe that this is to the detriment of the industry as a whole. I know the hon. the Minister has tried his best to get them together, and so did his predecessor and probably his predecessor before him, but as yet they have not been successful in getting this sort of organization going. The problem is that the Forest Owners’ Association represents probably the larger percentage of the industry as such—not merely growers-—being growers and processors at the same time, while the S.A. Timber Growers’ Association represents largely growers only, although they also have co-operative interests as far as marketing is concerned.

I do not believe that the interests of these two organizations are necessarily divergent. I know file one has to negotiate with the other when it comes to the purchasing of timber for processing. The situation is, of course, further complicated by the fact that the Department of Forestry itself competes with private enterprise in that it is a big grower in its own right. It is therefore absolutely vital that it too participates in getting together in an umbrella organization to represent all growers. I believe this is necessary because the timber industry is not in a particularly happy situation at the moment. We are facing considerable surpluses, though I think that the situation has improved during the last year.

I believe, however, that the timber industry as a whole must get down to the job of finding more markets for the industry. I do not believe that an adequate job is being done in that connection right now. As I have said, there is a serious surplus of round timber, there is a particularly large surplus of soft wood saw logs and, to a lesser extent, there is also a surplus of pulp wood. Let us look at projections for the timber industry. One such projection—I think it appears in the annual report of this year—indicates a surplus until 1981, but then we shall be moving into a period of shortage. Predictions for the period up to the year 2000 indicate that there is going to be a severe shortage of timber over the next 20 years. I hope I am correct in saying this, but I believe that unless the industry as whole tackles its problems as one industry, we might find ourselves continuing in the present unfortunate circumstances in which surpluses exist. I believe that the industry has to pursue a policy of more aggressive marketing, for example. The use of timber in the building of houses is a case in point All over the world timber houses are accepted by local authorities, by building societies or other loan organizations, but we lag behind in this respect. It seems ridiculous that when we do have a surplus, we are not using that surplus to assist us, for example, in the provision of housing.

Let me therefore tell the hon. the Minister that he should make a very definite approach to the Department of Community Development and talk to its officials about the use of timber.

I have done so already.

I am glad that the hon. the Minister indicates that he has already done so. I should like to see the results of this. When I travelled to the Ciskei the other day I saw temporary housing made of timber, and I was very pleased to see it because there is no doubt at all in my mind that that sort of timber house is far superior to the sort of temporary housing we used to see in the past, housing largely made of galvanized iron. Timber in itself is a much more suitable material to ward off extremes of heat and cold. It gives much greater protection against the sun. Its insulation properties are far better. I therefore believe that there is a great deal of scope in South Africa for the use of timber as a building material. I know that the S.A. Lumber Millers’ Association has already been actively promoting this idea, and so have other organizations. However, I believe that if the industry could stand together and market more aggressively, both on the local market and on the export markets, we could do far better. Therefore my plea to the hon. the Minister, at this stage of the debate, is to do whatever he can to ensure that the industry does stand together and that some sort of umbrella organization is created which can work. There is one at the moment, but it is not working. I should like to hear the reactions of the hon. the Minister to this. I believe that the aggressive marketing which could result would be of immense benefit to the industry.

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Orange Grove devoted his attention particularly to the organizations within the forestry industry and said that they were not working well. It might be true that there are problems, but I believe that the establishment of the Forestry Council by the Department of Forestry went a long way towards solving these problems.

Today I should like to refer specifically to the intensive marketing effort of recent times. We are experiencing a time of over-production in the forestry industry, which is mainly the result of economic factors completely beyond its control. This creates problems, not only for the producers, but also for the marketers of timber. Inflation is forcing up costs and consequently lowering the profit margin. That discourages people from cultivating plantations and from investing in the forestry industry. Consequently the question I put today is: How is the industry reacting to the challenge facing it and how is it going to succeed in restoring confidence in the industry? In the first place I want to make the statement that a well organized industry, in which there is co-operation in seeking for the best solution, is in everybody’s interest, and as far as this is concerned I want to agree with the hon. member for Orange Grove. I want to make the statement that the State has done its duty in these difficult times, firstly by encouraging exports, by reducing the price of timber and, in recent times, by means of the concessions of the Department of Commerce and Consumer Affairs as well as income tax concessions from the Department of Inland Revenue, something which is greatly appreciated by the timber growers, and by creating a climate for co-operation by the passing of the Forestry Act the other day. I believe that the Forestry Council has become a body to which the forestry industry can put its problem and by which such problems can be examined to find solutions to them. I should like to congratulate the Forestry Council on what it has done up to now. It has presented an excellent report on its activities. The legislation we passed the other day will also be instrumental in solving the problems. The hon. the Minister will intervene only when a dispute arises. The mere fact that there is legislation will virtually force producers’ organizations to get together and to form a united front.

The most encouraging sign of recent times with regard to forestry is the excellent progress which has been made with the export effort—in contrast to what the hon. member for Orange Grove said. I should like to congratulate private undertakings on the initiative showed by them in this regard.

In comparison to the previous year exports increased in 1978 by 18,5% to R154 million. This is mainly due to the excellent increase of R8¼ million with regard to sawn hardwood. A large part of the R154 million is in respect of pulp and paper, viz. R126 million. From 1975 to 1978 it increased by R40 million, that is, an increase of 70% within a matter of three years.

Since I have now been thanking the hon. the Minister for the concessions for promoting timber exports, I also want to request him to keep a watchful eye on this aspect at all times in future and to lend a helping hand with the export effort wherever it is possible for him to do so. I should also like to ask the hon. the Minister whether we should not take another look at export replacement. It is interesting to note that while there was an increase in timber exports, there was also an increase in imports, an increase of 15% to R180 million. In other words, we are still importing more timber products than we are exporting. The question I ask myself is whether it is really necessary for us to continue in this manner.

It is a good thing that we have made progress with the export of sawn timber. This increased by an amount of R12 million. I want to ask, however, whether this is really the best way in which to export our products. We should think of upgrading export products. We have the means to export a better processed product. Why should we export the unprocessed timber so that it may then be processed abroad? Why do we have to import so much paper and why cannot we get additional pulping capacity? I realize that large amounts of capital will be required for this, that it is an expensive industry and that it cannot be established on chance surpluses. I want to ask, however, that the Minister have this investigated in order to establish whether there is a viable proposition for the further processing of wood into paper and whether it is not possible for the IDC to make loans available, possibly at low rates of interest, to the organizations that want to establish an industry of this kind. I believe it is in the national interest for us to become self-sufficient. If we do this, we shall be making an important contribution to stimulating the timber industry.

In contrast to gold and other minerals, timber is a self-replacing product. By stimulating our timber production, we are encouraging an industry that does creative work. In addition we are utilizing our natural resources in a way which provide employment opportunities to our own people and supply our own needs. As a bonus we also receive additional foreign exchange.

Consequently I want to say that we may be optimistic about the timber industry in the long term. All that is necessary is that we give the private producers the necessary encouragement to establish more plantations. I want to point out that afforestation is not so attractive at the moment because it is a very long term project. The high rates of interest, too, tend to discourage the people. For that reason I want to ask that we continue with afforestation loans at low rates of interest. During the year 1977-’78 covered in the annual report there were 38 applications for loans amounting R650 000. This is a good start I think we should continue granting loans. In this way we shall be encouraging the people, even if they have to wait a little longer before they can saw their timber, to run their plantations correctly and to establish more plantations. Especially in the difficult times in which we are living now, in which farmers are struggling to sell timber, it is important that their profitability will not be reduced by high rates of interest.

Mr. Chairman, it was God’s will in creating the world that man should be close to nature. This has always been so through the centuries. It is still true today. The South African people, too, are not essentially different, the more so because the South African nation was originally a rural community. Because they were bound to the soil and to nature, we find that South Africans have a constant longing for nature. This is very clearly revealed when over weekends, particularly long weekends, we see the exodus of people from the cities to the platteland, to the forests and to nature, and cars in their hundreds of thousands on our roads, driven by people seeking a quiet place in nature. They want to get away from the hustle and bustle of the city so that they can have an opportunity to find themselves and refresh their souls in natural surroundings where they can make fresh acquaintance with the wonder of the creation and with the Creator himself. This is necessary if one wants to be and remain human.

About a generation ago, the majority of South Africans, as a rural population, still had the opportunity to have contact with nature, but due to the rapid urbanization of the population these opportunities have rapidly dwindled and the need for the creation of such opportunities has become acute.

About 15 years ago, mindful of the greater need for recreation facilities, the Department of Forestry realized that the public should be given more access to State forests for activities in nature such as camping, picnicking, walking and mountain climbing, specifically because the State forests of our country include the finest mountain areas and areas of natural beauty.

In a policy statement of 23 points issued in 1969, definite provision was made for the establishment of recreation facilities and tourist attractions. However, the share of the Department of Forestry in the development was restricted to basic camping and caravan park facilities. Where more permanent facilities are required, an effort is made to conclude agreements with local authorities and provincial administrations.

During 1973, in the “Green Heritage Year”, the Fanie Botha hiking trail was introduced as an experiment. Initially, only one overnight hut was provided—in fact it was a stable for mules that had been converted into a hut. There was an easy walking route that could be completed within two days. Since then the hiking trails which, as immediately became evident, are a great attraction, have expanded tremendously under the aegis of the National Hiking Way Board. At present, after six years, they comprise a total of 716 km and provision is being made for 31 overnight huts of various types.

The introduction of the hiking trails and the construction of camping and overnight facilities is obviously an expensive undertaking and in the nature of file matter must be maintained and kept neat. The funds made available for this purpose—by way of Government grants and donations—is controlled by the National Hiking Trail Board. Very fine donations have been made by well-disposed donors, but I want to make an appeal to the public to make more donations for this purpose in order by so doing to make a further contribution to future healthy recreation.

It is envisaged to add further paths to the national hiking trail network with a total length of 2 400 km, and to build 140 additional huts, a project which will cost approximately R1½ million. We are grateful that provision is being made for R88 000 in the present financial year. At the same time, revenue of R93 000 is expected from overnight fees. If one compares these amounts to the amount in fact required for the establishment of the total network, one realizes that private initiative could contribute a great deal to its establishment.

I am convinced that if there is co-operation from the public this would serve as a stimulus for interest in and use of those hiking ways. The popularity of the existing facilities is proved by the statistics relating to occupation of overnight facilities. Over the past year the figure was 66 628, an increase of 8 317 over the previous year. The demand for these facilities will continue to grow.

As far as the further development of the hiking trail network is concerned I should like to take this opportunity to bring to the attention of the committee the latest addition to the hiking trail network. I refer to the planned Middelburg/Loskop Dam Hiking Trail, the development of which will begin in the present year. This development will be financed by the local community. The route to be followed runs for 25 km along the Klein Olifants River up to its confluence with the Groot Olifants River, and then carries on for another 35 km until it reaches the Wilge River. 80 km further, the route ends at the Loskop Dam.

Scenes of great natural beauty unfold in this river catchment area and every now and again the surroundings are transformed into natural wonders by the fine, dense and unspoilt vegetation. The route winds through breadfruit forests extending over many hectares. Giant breadfruit trees of up to five metres high are found there.

When are we going to hear about Satan?

The hon. member will hear about Satan in a moment, because the route also passes through the mountains and dense forests and passes a place known as “Die Hel”. This place can get very hot, particularly in summer. I do not know whether hon. members are aware of the great scenic beauty of the region where the Highveld and the Lowveld meet. The aim is to keep the hiking trail as unspoilt as possible so as to prevent unnecessary disturbance of nature.

Another important characteristic of the scheme is that the overnight points—at least ten of them—will be constructed as cheaply as possible. They will comprise, inter alia, a round wooden “lapa” with a diameter of six metres, and a ceiling of three metres by five metres. Then, too, at every overnight point a “hold-your-breath” toilet must of course be constructed. The cost of constructing such an overnight facility—including the “lapa” and the toilet facilities—would be approximately R800. Therefore this means a total cost of R8 000 for the ten huts.

Apart from the beauties of nature there is also the historical Botshabelo mission station—Mr. Sontag of the department is well acquainted with this mission station because his family has emotional ties with it—which is also worth visiting.

In these times of fuel scarcity this hiking trail ought to be a very popular attraction, particularly if one bears in mind that it is only 195 km from Johannesburg. It is probably the only one of its kind which one could reach from Johannesburg or Pretoria with a full tank of petrol, and then still find, having spent the weekend there, that one has enough fuel to return home. In view of the tremendous demand for holiday and weekend recreation facilities, I can very strongly recommend this particular hiking trail.

Chairman directed to report progress and ask leave to sit again.

House Resumed:

Progress reported and leave granted to sit again.

Mr. Speaker, I move—

Agreed to.