Mr Speaker, I would be pleased to reply to the hon member for Ermelo’s question.

Yes, members of the Reserve Police Force— better known as police reservists—who stood as candidates during the municipal elections of October 1988, were placed on the “inactive” list of reservists and were exempted from active service. It is a pity that we had to take this step, but I am firmly convinced that it was in the best interests of the SA Police and the community. We were forced to take these steps because political parties had now entered into the field of municipal affairs as well.

After the municipal elections it was decided, after careful thought and consideration, to maintain the status quo in respect of these members, whether they had been elected or not. At the same time it was decided that they would not be permitted to do active service again. This policy is strictly implemented, irrespective of whether the person stood as a candidate for a political party or as a so-called independent candidate.

Today I want to express my thanks and appreciation to these reservists for the excellent service they rendered to the SA Police and the community. However, it is very important for the SA Police to ensure, as far as possible, that the Force and the Reserve Police Force are not political in character.

For this reason specific provisions in this regard are laid down in the Police Act—Act No 7 of 1958—the Regulations of the SA Police Force and in the Standing Orders. In the definition of a “member of the Force” it is stated that a member of the Reserve Police Force—ie a police reservist—is also a member of the Force while he or she is serving in the Force.

Standing Order 85 further provides that as members of the Force have to serve all groups in the community impartially, members are prohibited from being involved in political discussions or from giving vent to political feelings.

For the same reason Regulation 58(33) and Regulation 72 provide that members of the Force are not permitted to stand as candidates or in any way actively promote the candidature of a candidate for Parliament, a city council, a municipal council, a village management board, a health committee, a local authority or a school board.

This is our well-considered opinion, and hon members will appreciate the fact that once a person has entered the political arena, there can no longer be any question of impartiality. Even when the person concerned has stood as an independent candidate, without “official” party connections, political alliances are unavoidable.

If such a person subsequently takes up active service in the SA Police Force, it is possible that a perception of bias might arise among individuals or in a portion of the community. Such a perception is in no way beneficial to the vitally important relations and co-operation between the Police and the community—an element without which effective policing is simply not possible. Under the circumstances it is therefore in the best interests of the Force and of South Africa for this policy to be maintained and implemented.

Mr Speaker, the hon member for Ermelo addressed me very sharply on this matter. I want to tell the hon member that it is very clear to me from his arguments that they would like to bring party politics into the Police Force. [Interjections.] We must not tell one another little stories about these things. I want to give the same reply to the hon member for Green Point. We must be very careful of one thing, and that is that we should never allow party politics to play a role in the security forces of this country. [Interjections.] Never.

The rules provide—I quoted this—that a Police Reservist, someone in uniform who is on duty in the charge office, is considered to be a member of the Force. Do the hon members now want it to be said that the person who was involved in an election campaign until recently, and who tomorrow stands behind a counter in the charge office, or who goes to investigate a reported complaint, is now a policeman again?

We will never reach the end of the agony surrounding this situation, because do hon members know what will happen next? The accusations will pour in, because it will be said that because this man stood as an NP candidate or CP candidate, he did not investigate the matter properly. For that reason we can never allow that.

The CP is very angry with me today in this regard, but I did not devise the standpoint which we are adopting here today. It comes from the Police themselves. They took this decision. [Interjections.] The SAP themselves tell me that they want to be safeguarded against all politics within the SAP. [Interjections.]

Hon members now want to draw the Police in. It will be a bad day for South Africa if we allow the SAP, or if we expect them to participate in party politics, and tomorrow the Police must once again try to act impartially. [Time expired.]

Mr Speaker, I want to admit that the reservists were not always treated the way they are treated now … [Interjections.] … because it was not always necessary. [Interjections.] What happened then? The CP wanted to politicise all these matters. [Interjections.] They climbed in here and even wanted to politicise the municipal elections. Surely the CP said that they were going to fight the municipal elections nationwide as well. Surely that is what they said. We did not say that. They made a great fuss in that regard.

In the same way that they tried to force their narrow-minded bigoted and outdated policy on people in other spheres, they also tried to implement it with regard to the municipal election. [Interjections.] They did this in regard to the churches and are still doing so in cultural organisations and in all spheres.

Let me tell hon members what the situation is with regard to the hon member for Bezuidenhout. It is not only the hon member for Bezuidenhout who was a police reservist. The hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning was also one. I was also one. That is more than we can say for those sitting on that side of the House. [Interjections.] However, the point is that when the CP attempted to bring politics into the Police, we refused and wanted to put a stop to it. Today, all three of us have been placed on the inactive reserve B list. That is the answer. The CP makes a great fuss about that, but we stand by this principle because we know what is right. We keep party politics out of the Police and out of the Security Force. That is the answer. Hon members must not run around making an issue of this sort of thing. We shall, therefore, continue to act impartially within the South African Police, because we serve all the communities. [Time expired.]

Mr Speaker, I want to say at once that it is not so interesting to move from the previous topic to the subject of cycads. However, I want to tell the hon member for Lichtenburg that in the days when I was still active as a police reservist, I looked after people like him. [Interjections.]

I want to say at once that the plants of the Cape Province, with which the question deals, are protected according to the classification of the specific plant in terms of provincial legislation.

†In this particular regard it is classified in terms of the Nature and Environmental Conservation Ordinance, 1974, namely, endangered flora, protected flora and unprotected indigenous flora.

While the legal sale or purchase of protected flora requires either a licence or permit, a landowner may remove protected flora from the natural state and donate such flora to another person without any permit. Such flora may also be in the possession of the recipient without such a permit.

In the case of a species classified as endangered flora, no one can remove it from the natural state without a permit even if it is their own property. The donation, receipt as a donation, possession, as well as the sale, purchase, transport, export and import thereof are subject to a permit.

Cycads in the Cape Province were previously classified as protected flora with the exception of four species which were classified as endangered flora. As a result of the provisions of the Nature and Environmental Conservation Ordinance with regard to protected flora, many protected cycads were legally donated to collectors of cycads, and such persons were able to build up large collections of cycads.

As it is impossible, according to the experts, to identify the species when their leaves are removed, this provision led to the illegal sale and purchase of cycads under the pretext that such cycads were donated and to illegal trade in the case of the endangered species.

In the light of the concern for the survival of the species and in order to simplify identification, the Administrator of the Cape Province classified all cycads as endangered flora in May 1985. This extended protection to these species.

At the same time it is not policy to allow the removal of cycads from their natural state at all. [Time expired.]

Mr Speaker, it is quite clear that the hon member who asked the question on the Question Paper was not very worried about the protection of succulents. He was more interested in the person responsible for the exportation of the specific plants. [Interjections.] If he had asked me that, I would have replied to him accordingly.

In terms of the legislation to which I have referred, it is a fact that the greatest conservationists, of these plants too, are private cultivators and collectors. In terms of existing legislation which requires the registration of people in possession of the specific plants, more than 4 000 applicants have already applied for permits or registration. These applications range from people with only one plant to people with thousands of plants.

In terms of the legislation we have therefore succeeded not only in protecting the plants about which the hon member is talking, but also in getting the private sector to participate in the conservation programme. I submit that if we were not prepared to accept that people who participate in the conservation programme must also be entitled to sell their plants, we would never have achieved the conservation success in this country which we have achieved in many spheres. [Interjections.]

Of course it is true that South Africa is a member of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora. Yet according to the exporters not only the provisions but also the spirit of the convention were complied with. What are the provisions which must apply when an export permit or consent are considered? [[Time expired.]

Mr Speaker, the hon member’s concluding remarks actually prove my allegation. He is not concerned about the protection of endangered species, but, interestingly enough, about corruption. [Interjections.]

If the hon member wants to hear the reply I will give it to him with pleasure. I assume that he put the question on the Question Paper to get it somewhere in the reply. All I want to say is that under our obligations in terms of the convention the specific plants were handled in accordance with the schedule to the convention.

What is more we in the province complied with all the conditions. They consist of four parts and I should like to read them out to hon members. It is stated:

Nothing which the hon member said gave any indication that there was such a threat. I am continuing to quote:

Nothing which the hon member has said, is jeopardising this. I am continuing to quote:

According to all the information I have this was complied with. However, if the hon member has evidence that laws were contravened, it is his duty to make a statement to the authorities. [Time expired.]

This matter vests in the Administrator of the Cape Province and he has furnished the following information:

1. (1)
   1. (a) None.
   2. (b) Falls away.
2. (2) No — still busy with planning.
   1. (a) and (b) Fall away.
3. (3) (a) and (b) Ikapa Town Council.
4. (4) No. The Black local authority consider the tenders and decides on the allocation of contracts in terms of the applicable financial regulations.

1. (1) Yes.
   1. (a) May 1989.
   2. (b) R4,5 million.
2. (2) Yes.
   1. (a) May 1988.
   2. (b)
      1. (i) The delay was caused due to additions and changes to the original design.
      2. (ii) Passengers are inconvenienced for a longer period of time.
3. (3) Yes, constant pressure is being exercised by the architect on the contractor to expedite the building work.

This matter vests in the Administrator of the Cape Province and he has furnished the following information:

1. (1) Yes — a Black township, then named Tyolorha, was proclaimed during 1986 with a total area of 227 hectares. During 1988 the name of the township was changed to Thembalethu while 246 hectares of land was added to the existing development area on 15 July 1988, the total area of the township now being 473 hectares. Now after development, areas have been declared in the George district during the past 5 years.
2. (2) (a) and (b) Yes.
   1. (i) In terms of Sections 1 and 41 of the Black Communities Development Act, 1984 (Act 4 of 1984).
   2. (ii) In all Black townships.

1. (1)
   1. (a) The National Transport Commission (NTC). The function of the NTC in the relevant regard is to consider applications submitted by the Department of Transport and on the strength thereof to make recommendations to the Minister of Transport Affairs.
   2. (b) The following criteria are taken into account when the subsidisation of commuters is considered —
      whether the need exists for workers to be transported from their place of residence to their place of employment;
      the unemployment situation prevailing in the area where employment opportunities exist;
      whether the place where workers are to be transported from is a resettlement area, township or squatter camp;
      whether rail facilities exist for commuting purposes and, if not what the possibilities are for the provision of such facilities in the near future;
      the financial position of the bus company which intends providing the service; and
      whether the bus company is capable of providing and maintaining a reliable and efficient servicing and repair facilities and infrastructure.
      After determining what portion of the economic fare the commuter can afford to pay from his wages, the subsidy, being the difference between the economic fare and the portion thereof which is affordable by the commuter, is calculated.
2. (2) No.
   1. (a) Please refer to my reply at (1) (b) above.
   2. (b) All towns in respect of which subsidies are paid are listed in the Annual Reports of the Department of Transport and of the National Transport Commission which was tabled in Parliament. No subsidies are paid in respect of those towns which do not appear on the list.

1. (1) R415 557 164,63. R391 149 800,00 was paid from moneys voted by Parliament and R24 407 364,63 from transport levies paid by employers.
2. (2) No.
   1. (a) and (b). The bus fares of passengers are subsidised and not bus companies. The subsidies on bus fares of the passengers vary from area to area on account of circumstances with regard to road conditions, topography, weather, etc. Since transport costs differ from bus company to bus company, subsidies paid to passengers also differ. Furthermore the average wages paid to workers in different areas differ. This aspect is also taken into consideration when determining subsidies.
3. (3) Please refer to my reply to question 212 at (1) (b).

(a) (i) and (ii) and (b) (ii).

(b) (i) The economic fare is determined according to the operating needs of a company and expressed in cents per passenger per kilometre whilst subsidies are negotiated within those parameters having regard for the criteria mentioned in the reply to 212 (1) (b).

1. (1) No.
   1. (a) and (b) falls away.
2. (2) Yes.
3. (3) Yes
   1. (a) Mammosa (Pty) Ltd Berghaus Beleggings CC Reskom Eiendomsdienste Urbans Industries (Pty) Ltd Murray and Roberts Properties (Cape) (Pty) Ltd
   2. (b)
      1. (i) R12 per square metre per month
      2. (ii) R25,58 per square metre per month
   3. (c) Falls away.

This matters vests in the Administrator of Transvaal and he has furnished the following information:

1. (1) To date 385 private resorts applications were approved in the Transvaal. There are 32 resorts (reserves) which are under the jurisdiction of the Transvaal Provincial Government.
   As far as (a), (b), (c) and (d) are concerned permits were issued in terms of the Group Areas Act in respect of two resorts to be opened to Indians and to one to be opened to all race groups. This Administration is not in possession of any further information with regard to private resorts.
   Of the resorts which are under the jurisdiction of the Transvaal Privncial Government Pilgrims Rest is open to all race groups and the resorts at the Roodeplaatdam is open to Coloureds and Indians.
   The Ramosa Riekert Resort in the Western Transvaal is open to Blacks.
2. (2) It is the Transvaal Provincial Government’s policy to open all the resorts under its jurisdiction to all race groups. The one and only resort in the Vaal River area, i.e. the Vaaldam, which is under the jurisdiction of the Administration is open to all race groups.
   Individual private resort owners may decide for themselves, if they wish to do so, to apply for a permit in terms of the Group Areas Act to open their resorts to all race groups.
3. (3) No.

1. (1) No.
2. (2) Lapses.

1. (1)
   1. (a)
      1. (i) 22 873 — December 1988
      2. (ii) 10 524 — December 1988
   2. (b)
      1. (i) Increase of 546
      2. (ii) Increase of 721

Statistics are unfortunately not available for each province respectively.

1. (a) 43
2. (b) R2 350 289.

Statistics in this regard are not readily available. Where redundant posts are identified, a teacher is normally transferred to a suitable post with his permission.

1. (a) 364
2. (b) 287
   As at 6 July 1988.

1. (a) R1 507,55
2. (b) R1 286,15

Statistics in respect of individual provinces are not readily available because per capita expenditure is not calculated on a provincial basis.

1. (1)
   1. (a) Yes.
   2. (b)
      1. (i) On a site situated between Tulip and Dromedaris Streets.
      2. (ii) The school will consist of an academic block and a technical centre with workshops for electrical work, welding and metalwork and for standard 6 basic orientation; 2 drawing rooms, 2 theory rooms, 1 office and 1 storeroom.
      3. (iii) and (iv) Particulars in this regard are not readily available.
2. (2) Yes.
3. (3) Yes. The Department has already supplied 13 mobile classrooms and 1 mobile toilet unit to East Rand Secondary School as a temporary relief measure. The proposed erection of Reigerpark Secondary School No 2 should completely solve the accommodation problem presently experienced at Reigerpark and everything possible is being done to expedite the service.
4. (4) No.

1. (1)
   1. (a) Yes. 22 schools have not applied.
   2. (b) Yes. 4 schools have been refused subsidy.
2. (2) (a) and (b) This information is not readily available at this stage. The closing date is 31 July 1989.

This examination is not being conducted by this Department.

All State and State-aided primary and secondary schools under the jurisdiction of the Department are open to all pupils provided that accommodation is available.

The statistics as supplied by the City Engineer, Durban for the period 1 December 1987 to 30 November 1988 are as follows —

1. (a) 632; and
2. (b) 25.

The statistics as supplied by the Natal Provincial Administration for the period 1 June 1987 to 31 May 1988 are as follows —

1. (a) 320; and
2. (b) 66.

1. (1) Yes, by the Local Road Transportation Board (LRTB), Durban, during the period 1 March 1988 to 28 February 1989.
   1. (a) 92 Permits, the details of which are—
      3 Permits, Durban to Chatsworth (Unit 3)
      1 Permit, Silverglen to Durban;
      80 Permits, Chatsworth (Unit 11) to Durban and Pinetown; and
      8 Permits, Chatsworth (Units 6 and 7) to Durban.
   2. (b) None.
2. (2) Yes.
   1. (a) and (b)

1. A. 30 August 1988 — Mr C Moodley
2. B. 14 September 1988 — Mr A Naidoo on behalf of Springfield
3. C. 20 October 1988 — Mr G Kasool
4. D. 8 November 1988 — Natal Commuters Assocation
5. E. 20 January 1989 — Mr K Chetty, M.P.
6. F. 1 February 1989 — Mr L Nayager
7. G. 8 February 1989 — F Khan
8. H. 13 February — A Nakood
9. I. 20 February 1989 — Mr K Chetty, M.P.
10. J. 21 February 1989 — B V Naidoo
11. (c) (i) and (ii):

A. Complaints regarding bus fares and timetables of bus service rendered by Marinepine Transport from Unit 6/9 and Kharwastan.

Investigation revealed complaint to be unfounded.

B. Adults were being conveyed on bus services to the University, alleged to be bus services for students only.

Investigation revealed that the bus service was in fact being rendered in accordance with conditions of permit.

C. Alleged unauthorised increase in bus fares en route from units 6 and 7 to Durban.

Investigation indicated that the increased fares had been approved by the LRTB, Durban.

D. Music in buses is loud and disturbing.

The matter was investigated and discussed with the parties concerned which led to the solving of the problem.

E. Inadequate bus service in the Inner Circle.

Investigation indicated that the reported inadequacy was attributable to the fact that Royal Passenger Service had experienced financial embarrassment and was obliged to sell its service to various operators. Discussions with the relevant bus owners led to the improvement of the service.

F. Bus operator does not issue tickets to passengers on service in unit 6 and 7.

Investigation indicated the complaint to be unfounded.

G. Inadequate bus service between Chatsworth and Durban.

After an investigation prosecutions were instituted for failure to comply with the conditions of the permits. Discussions were held with the relevant bus operators who undertook to improve the services.

H. Alleged unauthorised increase in bus fares by bus operators in Chatsworth.

Investigation indicated that the increase in fares was indeed authorised. The LRTB explained to the complainant what procedure had to be followed in objecting to an application for increase in bus fares.

I. Inadequate bus service between Chatsworth and Durban.

After an investigation prosecutions were instituted for failure to comply with the conditions of the permits. Discussions were held with the relevant bus operators which led to the rectification of the inadequacies.

J. Inadequate bus services on Sundays and Public Holidays.

After an investigation prosecutions were instituted in cases where operators failed to comply with the conditions of the permits.

1. (1) Yes, by the Local Road Transportation Board, Durban, during the period 1 March 1988 to 28 February 1989.
   1. (a) 321 Permits, the details of which are:
      166 Permits, Phoenix to Durban;
      10 Permits, Units 15 and 21 to Point (Durban);
      65 Permits, all units in Phoenix to Point Road;
      15 Permits, Phoenix and Jacobs to Mobeni; and
      65 Permits, Phoenix to Durban.
   2. (b) None.
2. (2) Yes.
   1. (a) and (b)
      1. A. 30 March 1988 — Mr H Ramlall
      2. B. 20 April 1988 — Mr H Ramlall
      3. C. 5 May 1988 — Mr G Govindsamy
      4. D. 16 May 1988 — M B S Mehwood
      5. E. 20 May 1988 — Westham Ratepayers and Civic Association
      6. F. 2 August 1988 — Mr H Ramlall
      7. G. 31 August 1988 — Natal Commuters Association
      8. H. 14 September 1988 — A Naidoo on behalf of Springfield Bus Operators Association
      9. I. 14 November 1988 — Viljoen, Du Toit and Krog J. November-December 1988 — R Brijlall
      10. K. 7 February 1989 — Phoenix Indian Ratepayers and Tenants Association
      11. L. 7 February 1989 — Phoenix Indian Ratepayers and Tenants Association.
   2. (c) (i) and (ii):
      1. A. Alleged overloading of buses.
         Investigation indicated that standing passengers created the impression that buses were overloaded. Although no legal action was taken, the matter was discussed with the Phoenix Bus Owners Assocation.
      2. B. Alleged inadequate bus service as a result of an insufficient number of buses on the route between Phoenix and the Jacobs and Mobeni industrial areas.
         Investigations revealed that buses were in actual fact not overloaded along the route, which indicated that the 10 buses used on this route were adequate.
      3. C. Alleged reckless driving, overloading and unauthorised stopping along the bus route between Phoenix and Durban.
         After an investigation prosecutions were instituted. The ensuing discussions with the bus operators resulted in an improved situation.
      4. D. Alleged overloading of buses on the route between Phoenix and Durban.
         Investigation indicated that the standing passengers created the impression that buses were overloaded. It was also found that the number of buses was adequate for the route.
      5. E. Behaviour of conductors and overloading of buses.
         The behaviour of conductors was discussed with bus operators who undertook to phase out the presence of conductors on buses. The complaints relating to overloading were unfounded.
      6. F. Alleged failure of a bus operator to render a service on Sundays.
         An investigation revealed that the complaint was unfounded.
      7. G. Unauthorised increase in fares from Phoenix bus operators.
         After an investigation prosecutions were instituted against two operators.
      8. H. Alleged unauthorised conveyance of adults on bus services along routes to the University.
         Investigation indicated that the bus operator was complying with permit conditions.
      9. I. Differences between the two main operators in Phoenix regarding the loading of passengers at the Durban Bus Rank.
         A meeting with the parties concerned was called and the differences allayed.
      10. J. Alleged irregularities in respect of Phoenix bus operators.
          The matter was thoroughly investigated by senior officials of the Department of Transport and no proof of any irregularities could be found.
      11. K. Discontinuation of certain bus services in the Redfern Crescent area.
          After discussions with the bus operators the relevant services were reinstated.
      12. L. Problems regarding bus fare increases.
          The matter was discussed with the Phoenix Indian Ratepayers and Tenants Association and the procedure relating to applications (and objection thereto) was explained to the satisfaction of the Association.