Mr Chairman, I had anticipated speaking immediately after the Administrator this morning but I was informed a minute ago that he was not going to address us at this stage. Nevertheless, I want to say that the Administrator of this province is a person whom I have always respected and admired. He is a man who I believe has dedicated his considerable talents and energies to the affairs of this province for the past almost ten years. I believe he has, given the constraints of the system within which the province has to operate, performed his duties with considerable skill and dedication. Given the limitations and restrictions of the policies within which he has to operate, the NP policies which to this day continue to give priority to the interests of one section of our population, I believe that this administration has probably done almost as well as can be expected in promoting a variety of services to the people of the Cape Province.

The pity is that the province could have been so much better off and its services could have been extended to so many more people in so much greater a measure if only we had been blessed with a democratic and non-racial system of government.

I have expressed so much admiration for the qualities which our Administrator possesses that my speech almost sounds like an obituary! It is perhaps not out of place because our Administrator and his MECs are part of a dying system. The era of race discrimination, White privilege and ultimately White power is passing fast. [Interjections.] Apartheid, although still visible in many facets of our daily lives, and although still clung to by some, like the hon members on my right, is indeed dead. [Interjections.] Yes, it is a dead system. [Interjections.]

Order!

I would like to think that as rigor mortis sets in our Administrator will have the foresight and the courage to rid the Cape Province of the last traces of apartheid. The thing is dead, why not eliminate it completely?

Hon members would have noticed how, when questions are asked in regard to parity at staff level and equality of the services provided to the various race groups in this province, the hon the Administrator and his MECs are at pains to point out just how far they have progressed along this road. They are relieved, and even show a measure of pride, in being able to answer questions in regard to areas where apartheid has been eliminated or parity has been achieved. [Interjections.] Yes, they are proud of these achievements. Why do they then continue to blot their copy book by allowing really petty and unimportant aspects of race discrimination to linger on? [Interjections.] I do not mean that it is unimportant to the people who are affected by it but it is unimportant in terms of the NP’s own objectives. There is still so much discrimination of a petty nature which just does not belong in the Cape Province at the moment. Why do they not eliminate these discriminatory measures?

It was amusing, and yet sad, to see the hon MEC Mr Schoeman trying to separate the Provincial Administration from its own child, namely beach apartheid, and trying to pass the baby onto Gordon’s Bay and other local authorities. Yet, after much jumping around, he had to admit that local authorities have to enforce beach apartheid which the hon the Administrator still chooses to impose. Because the Provincial Administration is supposed to be non-racial, we have to play all sorts of games aimed at hiding apartheid. Racially segregated holiday resorts—like Keurbooms and Cenester—are transferred to the own affairs administrations of the House of Assembly and the House of Representatives but they continue to be administered by the province just as before. This is nothing more than a book entry which fools nobody.

The agency system whereby the province continues to administer provincial matters on behalf of the own affairs of the House of Assembly and the House of Representatives, is in the first instance simply an apartheid mechanism that protects the selfish interests of the White population group or, to be more accurate, that section of the White group who find contact across the racial line unpalatable. What else is the object of transferring Keurbooms to the Administration: House of Assembly and Cenester to the Administration: House of Representatives, if it is not to perpetuate apartheid? Despite the claims of the death of apartheid—it is a dead thing—the Government continues to implement this farce. [Interjections.]

Only last week the William Slater Hospital, the Volks Hospital, the Port Elizabeth Provincial Hospital and the Walvis Bay Hospital were transferred from the province to the Administration: House of Assembly. Yet they will continue to be administered by the province. I find it hard to believe that a major hospital such as the Port Elizabeth Provincial Hospital is, or can be, reserved solely for Whites. Are there in fact no more patients of colour in this hospital? I would like the MEC to answer me in this regard. Does the trauma unit of this hospital turn away persons of colour who are brought in for treatment, who must very often be in a critical condition, in order to save a life?

Is there a separate hospital in Walvis Bay for members of the coloured population group, another one for members of the Indian group and another one for Blacks? If so, do these hospitals have the same specialised facilities for treatment which the hospital at Walvis Bay for so-called Whites offers to its elite group of patients? If there are not separate hospitals for each population group, and if other races are all bundled together as a non-White group, where is the logic of own affairs? Are we not simply seeing another manifestation of the perpetuation of White privilege, White intolerance and—I may add—White stupidity seeking justification in a constitutional mirage of own affairs?

During the question session I asked for details in regard to centres for the treatment of drug dependence. I was disturbed to note that our provincial hospital services do not have a single unit which specialises in the treatment of patients who suffer from drug addiction. There are a number where alcohol and drug abuse are treated. However, there is not one where drug dependence—which is a very specialised problem—is treated at a provincial hospital according to the answers which were given to me. I do know that Groote Schuur Hospital treats a limited number of cases in their psychiatric unit and I also know that there is a unit at Lentegeur in Mitchell’s Plain which specialises in counselling and rehabilitating selected cases of drug dependence. Am I to assume that the Lentegeur Hospital is not a provincial affair? I believe it would fit very well into the provincial non-racial concept because the unit is staffed by practitioners of all races and the patients are likewise admitted on the basis of their illness and not because they match a particular chart.

The answer which I was given on the question of centres for the treatment of drug dependence was interesting in that all the centres for treatment of alcohol and drug abuse which were listed as admitting patients to wards as in-patients are racially segregated in the sense that some are reserved for Whites and others for a mixture of other racial groups. I assume that this is because Whites prefer not to share wards, toilets, etc with people across the racial line. Yet with one exception all the out-patient drug counselling centres—I think there are about six altogether—are non-racial and open to all races presumably because Government believes that Whites can take a limited amount of non-racial contact.

I have no doubt that there are still many Whites who are racially sensitive, not surprising after 40 years of NP indoctrination and the destabilising of natural attitudes of tolerance. [Interjections.] They can mumble as much as they like. We have had 40 years of destabilising of the South African mind where we were told that our natural tendencies, namely to be tolerant and to love one’s neighbour, were wrong. We have been told that we must distance ourselves from our neighbours. We have to be separate. For 40 years this has been going on. Therefore it is not surprising that there are still people who find difficulty in accepting that all South Africans can mix, enter hospital wards together and do the like. However, I do believe that the vast majority of Whites, particularly in the Cape Province, are more than ready to associate with their fellow-South Africans at all levels including the sharing of hospital wards.

This is borne out by the situation at Groote Schuur Hospital at present. I know that officially Groote Schuur Hospital is supposed to be segregated in the sense that there are supposed to be separate wards and Whites going there may be led to believe that they are going to be treated separately and kept apart from other races. However, I am told that Groote Schuur is for all practical purposes entirely integrated and if people do not like the word “integration” then let me say that there is no racial segregation at Groote Schuur Hospital. I am told that the races mix freely, that they actually enjoy each other’s company and that many a patient has emerged from this hospital heartened at having discovered just how normal and likeable other South Africans are from whom—in the ordinary course of events—they are separated by the laws of this country. There are a few exceptions to this rule and I have no doubt that the MEC in charge of hospital services will point to the fact that not all the White patients are entirely happy.

Some are possibly very unhappy at being so rudely shaken out of their protective cocoon. Race sensitivity is however a universal phenomenon and we are living in times of transition where we cannot please all the people all the time, particularly not minorities with personal selfish hang-ups and certainly not at the expense of all the normal decent people who want to live in harmony.

The Group Areas Act—I am going to refer to it briefly—continues to be one of the most hated pieces of legislation on our Statute Book. It is also to my mind, like so much else of the lingering apartheid, one of the most unnecessary pieces of legislation, even in terms of NP objectives. This legislation is simply not necessary in this country in order to achieve even NP objectives.

The permit system under this Act is equally objectionable. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure for me to partake in this debate. It is unfortunate for a number of reasons that we have this type of debate only once a year.

Firstly, I want to deal with the topic of beach apartheid which is so close to my heart. We talk about beach apartheid year after year. I want to talk specifically about Port Elizabeth. I have repeatedly said that, where the council has said beaches are open, the Provincial Administration has said they are not and they appeal against that type of thing. We are wasting a lot of money and I think that if the individuals concerned had to pay for the appeal themselves, the would not go to these lengths.

There are questions we have to address. Unfortunately, when we talk about apartheid and discrimination, we are told to look at the CP. They are the people who implement these things if we look at Boksburg, Carletonville etc. We must deal with the causes since this is a law of the Nationalist Government that they are implementing. The CP does not make laws. The NP makes them, the CP implements them and that is all they are doing. One has to address this problem.

*We shall have to take unpopular decisions in order to set South Africa straight. Every time there is a problem we want to lay it at the door of the CP. Today I want to advocate that we should get back on our feet and display a little courage.

†We must stand up and be counted because discrimination is being practised against us.

Are you pleading for the CP?

I am not pleading for the CP but I am trying to set the NP straight before they elect a new State President. [Interjections.]

†Be that as it may, it is unfortunate that Whites have to determine the policy for Black people. It can be a laughable matter but it is unfortunate. I have always thought that these people do not have to go through the humiliations that we go through. All beaches reserved for White people are fully developed. I want to state specifically that our people are prosecuted when they go to so-called White beaches.

Let us look at what happens in Eerste River, Oubosrand and those areas. There are Black people living right next to the beach but they cannot go there.

It is a private beach.

It makes no difference whether it is private or not.

†People must not just chime in but must put their name down and come and talk about it because it is an embarrassing situation for anybody who belongs to the Nationalist Government when these items are discussed.

I want to ask this morning how much it is going to cost the Administration for that appeal. I also want to know the date set down for the hearing. We have to finalise this case and stop playing around.

We were told the referendum was held in Port Elizabeth. A referendum was not held for all the people of PE, but for people who are classified as White. That is what was done. Therefore it is a misleading statement, because if the people of PE had any say they would have voted for open beaches.

What I find strange, moreover, is that people living in Cape Town want to make policy for the people living in PE. We are talking of the devolution of power, of people taking their own decisions. Recently swimming-pools were opened in PE, and not a single person who dived into the pool turned black. So I do not know where we are heading; it is sheer madness, and a waste of people’s money.

The other thing I want to address is the question of hospital apartheid. I always ask myself this question: When a person is ill, does he mind who serves him, makes up his bed, brings him his tea on the trolley? Black people are serving Whites in the so-called separate wards. Let us look at the situation in PE at the Livingstone Hospital. How much money is being spent there? It is overcrowded, while other provincial hospitals are empty. However, we carry on with this type of separateness. Does it do the hon the Administrator or anybody any good to see this situation? How would the hon the Administrator feel if he were in that position? I just do not know how people reason, because this reasoning is illogical.

As we have been saying for the past 40 years, we have been through apartheid and we think it is now time to put an end to it. Local authorities have the right to say they want open beaches. If they want open hospitals, then we must leave it to the people in that local area to decide. One minute we say the local people must decide, but when they do take a decision that is contrary to Nat policy the hon the Administrator takes control. So I do not think his role is really to look after the interests of the NP, but to look after the residents in South Africa.

Not so long ago I read an article about Tygerberg Hospital. I wonder why it is necessary to have apartheid at this hospital. Why is it necessary to have separate entrances and separate facilities at that hospital? Why are separate instruments necessary? It is such an expensive commodity. Why must we have separate instruments when we can use them to our own advantage?

*The other matter I am concerned about—we also mentioned it last year—is the optimum utilisation of existing nurses’ homes by nursing personnel of all population groups at the provincial hospitals in the Cape. The reply I received read that the matter was receiving attention and had been submitted to the Cabinet for a decision. “A reply in this connection is being awaited. A more comprehensive reply will be furnished on 3 April.”

However, I have an even greater problem. There is a hospital in Kareedouw as well, but there is no accommodation available for the nurses receiving their training there. I am making an appeal to the hon the Administrator to go into this situation, because a nurse is a nurse, regardless of the colour of her skin. She is there to render a service.

†I would like to ask how one comprehends this type of thing, where one has a nurse or a nursing sister who is not White. There is a residence at the hospital but she cannot stay there. What norms are we applying? [Interjections.]

*If the situation is a reasonable one can understand it, but the whole thing is so unreasonable.

†How does one justify this type of thing? It is becoming increasingly difficult for the province and the Government to respond.

*I have another little problem. I want to refer to the regulations of municipalities and management committees.

†I would like to draw hon members’ attention to the regulation referring to “extraordinary vacancy”. It says if any rates payable by a member of the committee are not paid that member automatically forfeits his seat. In the regulations governing management committees it is stated that where rates are being paid by instalments and a member fails to pay any instalment or any instalment and interest which may be due and payable by him, he is disqualified. However, in the municipal regulation it says … [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I do not particularly want to follow on the hon member for Haarlem, as he has spoken about vestiges of apartheid that are still evident in our society which he finds hurtful to himself and his people. I just want to state as far as this Government is concerned the movement in South Africa is away from apartheid. [Interjections.] The hon member might laugh but I think the movement is definitely away from apartheid and it will continue to move away from apartheid. [Interjections.] It might not happen as fast as certain hon members would like but I think that the thrust is definitely in a certain direction.

I would like to start off by congratulating the hon the Administrator on his annual report and I would like to express a word of appreciation to him and his executive committee on the way they have conducted the affairs of the Cape Province over the past year.

I would also like to convey thanks to his officials and staff for the service that they have rendered.

*It is clear that the administration is geared largely towards the provision of services to all communities within the Cape Province. It requires particular experience, knowledge and dedication from the personnel to provide such a large variety of services to a growing population in such a large area. Particular thanks and appreciation must therefore be conveyed to all staff members for the manner in which they disposed of their business. We are grateful for their dedication and loyalty.

†If we look at the form that this debate took last year, I think the first thing that was of note was the fact that the CP decided to boycott this committee.

On legal grounds. [Interjections.]

The reasons they gave were that they objected to the fact that this was a mixed committee. They objected to the fact that it was to be seen as part of the constitutional reform, meaning sharing of power. Secondly, they objected to the costs involved and, thirdly, they objected to the time that had been allocated them in this debate.

It will be very interesting to see what their approach is going to be this year because, as far as I am concerned, very little has changed since last year. They tell us fairly regularly that they are an honourable party, and if what was right last year is right this year, they should have to follow the same course. If anything has changed, however, we shall be interested in their explanation as to why they have changed their minds.

That is constitutional development.

They are developing rather slowly.

If we look at this appropriation, the administration must be congratulated on the fact that the appropriation shows a decrease of 0,5% against the revised figures of the previous year. A total of R2,935 billion has been budgeted for the 1989-90 financial year, as opposed to the R2,936 billion for 1988-89. In real terms this means a decrease of approximately 15%. We know that tremendous pressure is being placed on the authorities to spend less. The present hon the Minister of Finance is serious about decreasing expenditure. He is also serious about decreasing State expenditure as a percentage of the GDP from the present level of 38%. The fact that this appropriation shows a decrease in real terms, can therefore be regarded as an achievement. It is true that certain functions have been delegated to the Provincial Administration during the past year, while other functions were transferred to other departments at the same time, and we must therefore not be tempted to compare apples to pears. We must also remember that certain non-recurrent expenditure for specific projects is not repeated, and here we are referring to funds for the development of beach resorts and funds to cover the cost of damage as a result of disasters.

Certain corrections with regard to the accounting between the Provincial Administration and other State departments were also made. An example of this is that the SATS now pay for their motor vehicle licences in full, while the discount of 15% on the transportation of goods which the Provincial Administration enjoyed in the past, has now fallen away.

†While we are busy congratulating the Provincial Administration on the fact that its budget has been reduced in real terms, we must face up to the world-wide dilemma of all governments, namely the universal demand for the expansion of services rendered, while at the same time being faced with a substantial lobby for a reduction in taxes. This means the more efficient use of existing funds, and to achieve this we must look at, among other things, the efficiency of our financial accountability.

The Auditor-General has already warned that government in South Africa is threatened by a growing shortage of financial staff and the Provincial Administration is no exception. Deep appreciation is necessary for the monumental task that has been undertaken by the finance officials in the past, but we must be wary not to overload these willing horses.

As further functions and services are transferred to the provincial administration we find that staff are transferred as well, but due thought is not always given to the mechanics of financial control. This is especially true in regard to senior financial staff with the result that a greater burden is placed upon and further responsibility is given to those whose capacities are already strained. This is a serious matter. Without sufficient financial control we lay ourselves open, put temptation in the way and corruption is the result. If we are committed to clean government adequate financial control is essential. To fail in this regard is to place us on the road to becoming a banana republic.

Consideration must further be given to the present workload placed on financial staff. Budget changes at present have to be approved by four different bodies, namely, the Treasury, the Ministry of Finance, the Executive Committee and the Department of Constitutional Development and Planning. This means that what was once a single operation has now been quadrupled. Further problems are encountered with the provision of computer services by the Commission for Administration which further adds to the frustrations of financial officials. I would like to make a special plea that the status of financial officials be reconsidered and that they be given the recognition that they deserve.

As I have said, the Provincial Administration provides a wide variety of services to a growing population over a large territory. Hospitals and health services take up over 50% of the budget, while roads and traffic administration account for more or less 13%. Libraries, museums, nature conservation, agricultural societies, marine control, the performing arts and the provision of housing are all part of these services.

All of us have our own pet projects for which we would like to see extra funds provided. If I might be so bold I wish to mention my own particular hobbyhorse, which is the provision of adequate libraries. Especially in our poorer communities there are not always facilities at home where scholars and students can study. Much of the studying that they manage to do is done in the local libraries. I would therefore like to make an appeal, if priorities can be rearranged, that a higher priority be given to the provision of libraries.

It has been said that our road system, especially in the Cape Province, is underfunded. We often ask ourselves: Is it not true that the moneys that we spend on our road system is a matter of overcapitalisation? If we look at the problems of other underdeveloped countries we must realise that South Africa is privileged to have the road system that it indeed has. It is sometimes with amusement that some of us laugh at the hon member for Beaufort West when he makes his annual speech on the condition of roads in his constituency. I think we must have sympathy for the hon member. If we look at the situation in Soviet Russia we find that one third of the food that is produced in Russia, one third of their agricultural production, rots before it gets to market because of the inadequacy of the road system. I believe therefore that as it is an essential part of our infrastructure we must maintain an adequate system of roads.

The development of provincial government stems from the time when Union was formed in 1910, when a compromise was reached at the National Convention between the protagonists of federation and the supporters of centralism. Provinces were thus given the right to be responsible for particular areas of government where local sentiment was considered to be so overriding that surrender could not be given to any central authority. It must be remembered that in 1910 the main emotional issue was that of mother-tongue education. It is ironic to find that today education is no longer under the aegis of the provincial administration and has been transferred to the administrations of the Houses of Assembly, Representatives and Delegates. None of us sitting here today believes that we have reached the final solution in our constitutional development, or that the present form of Provincial Administration is here to stay. At present we have a body responsible for disbursing public funds under the authority of the central Government. We know that the Provincial Administration does have the right to collect own revenue and we see the potential to develop these sources of revenue will always be totally inadequate to fund the costs of services that are presently provided. It is for this reason that about 80% of the Administration’s revenue is funded by the Department of Constitutional Development and Planning.

A large proportion of present funds is disbursed by the Provincial Administration on behalf of the Black community. I believe that as Black local authorities develop many of these functions will be transferred from the Administration to those communities. As this happens we can well ask ourselves what the future role of provincial administrations will be. It would seem that the logical conclusion is that they will end up as a middle tier of government situated between RSCs and central Government. They will then be responsible for activities which are of communal importance and communal interest to RSCs and will take over or retain functions which are unsuited to local government. We will thus have a separate tier of government which will be multiracial and responsible to the bodies that elected it.

However, there will always be problems with funding in the future, as we have at present. We are still trying to find a formula whereby the central fisc makes an allocation according to factors like land area, population etc. In future, I believe, some means will have to be found whereby funds are passed from lower level to higher level in the same way that authority will be passed from below upwards. I believe that if we are to take democracy to the people, this is the course we will have to follow. This means a radical rethink of our tax philosophy and it will be essential if our constitutional future is going to be in the direction of devolution of power and not in the direction of concentration of power. It is my privilege to support the tabling of this budget.

Mr Chairman, if I am correct this is the second time we are having a debate on provincial affairs. At the last debate attention was drawn to the various inadequacies and the historical imbalances which prevail in our provinces with regard to the various provincial services rendered to people of colour. Facts were presented at the last debate. Many called it emotional talk. Many called it political rhetoric. Be that as it may, hon members pointed out facts because it was the first time they were given an opportunity on a provincial basis to bring the historical imbalances to the attention of the provincial authorities.

This is the second time we are here and, once again, we are, as we have discovered, facing a dilemma because we have a central government—most of us sitting here are members of Parliament—and the hon the Administrator and his executive are here to administer the laws which are passed by Parliament. During our discussions with the hon the Administrator and his executive in the Joint Committee on Provincial Affairs: Cape Province we only received answers to those questions about financial matters. It was a different story when it came to answering those questions about matters which affect the community. All hon members know what matters affect the community to a large extent and that the talk of the day is racial segregation. We must be candid about that issue.

We know some people ask why we always have to make such an issue of the whole matter. We have to answer that members in Parliament will keep talking about it, members in local authorities will continue talking about it and people throughout South Africa will keep complaining about it as long as apartheid remains the lifestyle of our country and our province. We will raise the issue as long as there are laws on the Statute Book which prescribe to people where they must live, where they must swim and which amenities they must use. We will raise the issue at every given opportunity!

I am trying to point out that we find ourselves in a difficult situation when we raise the matter with the hon the Administrator and his executive because they carry out the laws which are passed by Parliament. If they had to give us a clear and articulate answer they would tell us to have the laws removed by Parliament. We are members of Parliament and part of the legislative body. We are the people who make the laws. How can we go to the hon the Administrator and his executive and blame them for administering these laws? I find myself in a difficult situation. [Interjections.] I am not trying to defend the hon the Administrator. I am not trying to defend the executive. I am trying to point out that Parliament has to make up its mind and that the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act has to be repealed forthwith. That is what I am trying to point out.

It is useless to ask the hon the Administrator and the executive about these laws. They cannot do anything. Yesterday we were told indirectly that certain discriminatory laws exist and that we should therefore not address them on the matter. These Acts were not mentioned specifically but we all know about the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act which is an Act of Parliament. A provincial executive cannot pass ordinances which are in conflict with the laws of Parliament. Since we entered Parliament we have repeatedly stated very clearly that we have come here to dismantle apartheid and that we have come here to articulate the reasons for our opposition to every form of apartheid.

We also take this opportunity at this second provincial debate to state that we are against whatever laws obtain in this province which discriminate against people of colour. If the provincial executive have it in their power to remove these laws they should do so. I use the words “if they have it in their power.” One can look at the incidents at the Strand, at Mossel Bay and at Port Elizabeth. I am not a legal expert but we read in the newspapers that certain persons in the Port Elizabeth municipality took legal action. I am given to understand that the hon the Administrator had to defend it together with other hon Ministers concerned. How on earth can a government based on Western democracy and Christian principles defend a law like that in 1989?

The time has come for reconcihation in our land. We have stated before that we need reconcihation and declared principles of intent. We have declared that we are on the road of reform. However, the days of declarations are over. What we need now is action. Why should we not just remove these laws? There is one group in this country who say that they want complete separation. We know that will never work in this country in 1989. It has been tried for 300 years. As a result our rand has fallen to gutter levels. They and some financial experts may turn around and say that the currencies of other countries in the world which have no apartheid have also fallen to gutter levels but let us not talk about other currencies. Let us talk about our own. Let us talk about our own South African problems.

Furthermore, we claim to be a 100% religious country. The largest number of South Africans belong to the Christian faith, the second largest to the Hindu faith, the third largest to the Muslim faith and the fourth largest to the Jewish faith. In other words we are a 100% religious country. I cannot understand how we as a 100% religious community who all believe in the almightiness of God and in the common brotherhood of men can behave like this. Some of us go to church on Fridays, some on Sundays and some have church every day. Some worship in synagogues, others in temples and still others in mosques. However, what is the use of all this religious rhetoric when we cannot understand that we are all human beings created in the image of God? Are we fooling one another? Yet we have the audacity to criticise the communists. We say that they are the biggest troublemakers in the world but in this country of only about 25 million people we have not yet learnt to live like brothers, and yet we call ourselves religious people. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, as this is the first opportunity since the SWAPO incursion into SWA, we of the CP should like to make use of it to express our sympathy toward the relatives of those who have lost their lives on the northern border of South West Africa. I also want to take this opportunity to say that, whereas the CP seriously warned the Government in this Parliament a few weeks ago about the implementation of Security Council Resolution 435 and the content of the treaties entered into, this is exactly what we expected to happen and that in their planning the Government did nothing to avoid something of this nature. [Interjections.]

Order!

I want to revert to the debate of the day.

That is utterly deplorable.

Mr Chairman, it is not deplorable. It is the truth and I am prepared to defend it wherever it may be fitting. My party will raise the Government’s negligence regarding SWA in Parliament too.

You are turning it into a party-political issue.

No, we are not turning it into a party-political issue. [Interjections.] It shows what sore corns I have just trodden on. [Interjections.]

I should like to thank the hon the Administrator, the MECs and officials for the reception they gave us over the past few days during the sittings of the joint committee. I also want to thank them for the frank and direct manner in which they replied to our questions. We did not always agree but greatly appreciate the way in which they answered our questions.

In the first place I should like to spend some time on a few general comments as regards this budget. Capital works comprise an expenditure of 2,75% of the total budget; 16,77% of the total budget is spent on community services and social care, and approximately 33% is spent on the total salary package. I should like to emphasise that any province which wants to maintain its finances in a sound condition—I also want to assume immediately that the Cape Provincial Administration would like to keep its finances on a sound footing too—will see a red light when fixed investment comprises only 2,75% of the budget while social care and community services form 16,77% of it.

We in South Africa are so fond of saying that we are not a socialist state. If we were to conduct a survey today, however, on what is spent in South Africa on social care and community services as regards all three Houses and as regards Black people, we would arrive at an astounding figure. I therefore want to draw the conclusion that in this connection red lights must flash for the economy of a country in some stage or other.

Mr Chairman, may I put a question to the hon member?

Mr Chairman, unfortunately I do not have time to reply to questions.

At some stage or other we shall have to investigate the percentage amounts which we spend on social service. South Africa cannot continue in this way. We shall have to start teaching people to help themselves rather than always merely helping them in the way in which it is now being done. [Interjections.]

In the second place, as a further enlargement of this theme, I want to pause at Black social pensions. I want to quote two figures in this connection. In the first case an amount of R125 million was budgeted for Black social pensions in the previous financial year. This year the estimated amount is R190 million. This indicates an ascending line and, with respect to the hon the Administrator, I want to ask him what his standpoint is regarding this ascending line in social pensions.

Mention was made in the past of what the CP would do in this regard. Our standpoint is clear. We say that every population group should provide for its own social care. [Interjections.] Where development aid is concerned, such assistance is not granted on the basis of an obligation on the part of the White taxpayer. Hon members should bear in mind that the White taxpayer pays more than 90% of total personal tax in South Africa. [Interjections.] These are proven figures. [Interjections.] They are not figures which I am quoting from the Patriot. They are figures which come from Finansies en Tegniek. Hon members can make a commotion about this if they like—as they are doing now—but they cannot deny facts.

Order! We are at the start of this debate; a very long list remains of speakers from all parties who are to participate. They will have ample opportunity to refute any arguments which are put forward by specific hon members.

In this regard if we only look at page 10 of the Additional Appropriation, we see an increase of R11,776 million in Black social pensions as from 1 January 1989.

I should like to reach what is probably the most important part of my speech, that is the enforcement of the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act in connection with seaside areas which fall within the jurisdiction of the Cape Provincial Administration. We discussed this at some length yesterday in the joint committee and the sum total of the questions which we put amounts to the following.

From 1977 to 1987 local government bodies exercised delegated powers as regards the character of a specific seaside area. As from 1987 that delegation has been withdrawn and it now falls squarely within the powers of the hon the Administrator in terms of the Act to designate the character of a seaside area. Putting this into practice, in other words the question of control and the way in which it takes place, is the responsibility of the local authority. It comes down to the fact that the hon the Administrator may designate a specific seaside area like Kleinmond for instance as a seaside area for the White population group. Implementing this and the erection of notices or whatever way it is carried out is the responsibility of local government.

The situation has existed over the past few months that the CP has been attacked by the NP Press, radio and television concerning what occurs in Boksburg and Carletonville. My learned colleague the hon member for Parow is laughing now but I want to get to him later. He is the one who swims at Kleinmond with an apartheid signboard. In the light of a further example I want to ask what morality, integrity and credibility remain to this once mighty NP to which I also belonged. In Boksburg the CP is doing exactly the same—let me spell it out to hon members if they do not know it—as the NP town councils are doing under the guidance of an NP supporter like the hon the Administrator in places like the Strand. I have referred to this before. There is a red apartheid signboard with black lettering and arrows pointing in all directions where not only the beach is reserved for the White population group by the local authority but even the sea as well. That is the morality that comes from this NP and then Die Burger will not write about this “selective morality” one day, as it is so beautifully expressed in English. [Interjections.] Die Burger does not concern me as much as it sometimes worries other people who do not want to support some candidates in the NP caucus.

Let us look at the situation at Mossel Bay. We have a situation that Mossel Bay—would the hon the Administrator, with respect, put me right if I am wrong—has been designated by the hon the Administrator as a seaside area for the White population group.

During the Dias festival—I suppose we now have to infer that it had acquired an international character—to which people came from overseas, the NP, to ensure that they did not see these boards, went I almost want to say quietly to the hon the Administrator by night and he requested the Mayor of Mossel Bay to have the apartheid signboards in Mossel Bay removed. Because the NP controls the powerful media, not a word was written about this.

The question arises whether this request from the hon the Administrator is a reservation in terms of the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act. One could argue that it was only a request which they could accede to or not. Yesterday in the joint committee the hon the Administrator stated emphatically that it was a request that the signboards should be removed permanently.

Now the CP has taken fright at this.

The CP has not taken fright at this.

If I understood the hon the Administrator correctly yesterday—I took down his words verbatim in which he said that he had requested Mossel Bay to remove the boards permanently—I want to say that it is more in the nature of exercising authority in the direction of a reservation in terms of the Act.

What did the NP local governing body of Mossel Bay do? After the Dias festival was over, they replaced these apartheid boards. Look at what the hon the Deputy Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning said a few evenings ago on television. He said the NP was a party in favour of reform. The hon member for Wynberg also said this today. We reform, we remove boards, we do not replace them, they say. That is the sum total of NP statements. What did the NP town council of Mossel Bay do, the members of which belonged predominantly to the NP at that stage? [Interjections.] At that stage, after the Dias festival, when the boards were replaced, hon members can check the dates because I have done my homework—they were replaced by members of the NP local governing body or the municipality of Mossel Bay. Such is the morality, integrity and credibility of a party which in the Cape Province, in Mossel Bay and the Strand … [Interjections.] They hold all the seats in the Cape Province because they keep the beaches White. [Interjections.] That is the party which is attacking the CP in Boksburg, Carletonville and wherever. There can be no question of honour and integrity in this regard.

Let us look at squatter control now. We see on page 79 of the Estimate that R1 million is set aside—I see this under item B-9—for squatter control. Let us examine the credibility of the NP again. If these are not problems of credibility, then they are speaking with a double tongue. The hon the Deputy Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning says according to Hansard, 20 February 1989, col 1045 that R34 million has been set aside for squatter control. As regards the Cape Province—I am not referring to the other provinces now—it is divided up as follows: The Northern Cape R1,3 million, the Eastern Cape R3,9 million—he says almost R4 million—and nearly R5 million for the Western Cape. The hon the Deputy Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning said in Parliament that R10,2 million had been set aside as regards squatter control. Here we find—there may be an explanation for this but then I should like to hear it—that R1 million has been set aside for squatter control. We also asked for the figures concerning the numbers of squatters in the entire Cape Province and the figure which we were given was 103 150 squatters. We were to read this subject to section 33 of the Black Local Authorities Act. That is the explanation which we were given. We want to know, however—we ask that we should speak frankly to one another, that we should speak to one another in accordance with the definition of a squatter in terms of the Prevention of Illegal Squatting Act—how many squatters are resident in the Western Cape alone. Surely there can be no doubt that the deplorable squatter conditions currently prevalent in the Western Cape, not to mention the Eastern Cape, are not attributable to orderly urbanisation, which has become a new NP policy measure, but to disorderly urbanisation. The uncontrolled influx of people cannot be permitted in any Third World state.

I visited Malawi and even there, in comparison with what the NP is doing in South Africa at present, there is greater control than is currently the case in South Africa. As regards squatting, we are becoming a state like Nigeria. This is attributable to a Third World situation in which uncontrolled influx to the cities is permitted. The NP Government simply does not care a brass farthing about the influx which is taking place in this connection.

The situation is far worse than this, however. As if squatter control has become too great a problem to the central Government, it transfers it to the functions of the provincial administration. I want to tell the Administrator very seriously that I feel the greatest sympathy toward him for the way in which those functions are simply loaded onto his shoulders by the central Government. He then has to control and administer them with limited funds while he does not have the infrastructure or a police force for this.

The answer has become very clear to us that the Cape Provincial Administration has no statistics regarding contraventions of the Group Areas Act.

Leave those things alone!

I am not leaving them alone on purpose because it is important to a significant portion of the South African population structure, namely Afrikaners, to have a community life of their own. We shall never relinquish this. [Interjections.]

I want to discuss bridging finance as well. We asked what bridging finance actually was. We did receive an answer but again it was such a woolly one, with respect. It was a woolly answer which was neither here nor there. I asked whether this bridging finance represented loans which were granted to local governing bodies. The reply was that it did represent loans. I then asked what the interest rate on the loans was and under what conditions the loans had to be repaid. Then the reply was that it was not actually a loan, it ultimately became a donation. Now I ask how our country can continue distributing donations of this nature to local governing bodies. Hon members should bear in mind that regional services councils were created specifically to provide money to less-developed areas as well as municipal areas which needed it. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I almost got the fright of my life to think that South Africa should go back to influx control and the pass laws and that we should make the hon Mr Nyati, MEC, feel once again today that he would be sent packing with the question “upi lo pass?” Has this country not suffered enough because of that very thing? [Interjections.] We are experiencing a situation which existed previously, and people have confessed here and said that they have made mistakes. The dear hon members of the CP were part of these ugly things in the past.

†They were all members of the NP. [Interjections.] It is no use pointing fingers here. It is no use trying to put on a show here, saying: “Where is your morality?” Since the very start those hon members were part of this. They can never escape it. [Interjections.]

Now we find ourselves in a situation where we even go so far as to start questioning our taxes. If one is in a privileged position, being able to earn that amount of money, surely one must be taxed on what one earns. One must be taxed on what one has. [Interjections.]

*On the other hand it is said that each group should make provision for its own services. This other group that has to make provision has been impoverished. By whom?

†By an abnormal and imbalanced situation that has existed for the past 40 years. Now those hon members expect us—because of the situation that has arisen due to 40 years of rule of which those hon members were part—to say: “Elke groep moet vir homself voorsiening maak.”

*The guilt is still there, however; we have outgrown that situation and today we have a second tier government which was known as the old “boereparlement” in the past. The province was used here to do upliftment work among its people. That is why those hon members can no longer talk about “bywoners”, about poor farmers, etc. Hon members used those things while we stood outside in the cold, waiting for the crumbs from the rich man’s table. Let us say now that what is past, is past. There is no point in saying what an earlier speaker, the hon member for Rylands, said.

†We are in Parliament and we have promised the electorate that we shall come here and dismantle apartheid. We have gone over this exercise before.

I would also like to devote some time to a very important aspect, namely transport in our areas, as second tier government to my mind also has to play an important role as far as that is concerned. According to Vote 4 provision has been made for urban transport and we see development taking place. One can drive on the N2 and one will see what is taking place there. There are flyovers and a lot has been done. With regard to mass transport, hon members will find that money has been budgeted for bus interchanges. Large amounts of money have been budgeted for these bus interchanges because it is important to have this mass mode of transport. However, in spite of all this, there is one type of transport which has been left out completely, and that is our kombi taxi transport. There is no policy as far as kombi taxi transport is concerned. That particular issue has been pushed aside and the local authorities must find ways and means to settle it. During the session we have been speaking endlessly and pleasantly about privatisation.

*I am now going to suggest a very stupid thing. We are experiencing a situation which cannot be wished away. If I could, I would want to show everyone present here what is going on everywhere, especially in the cities. Look at what is happening in Cape Town. Go a little further and look at what is happening in Parow and Goodwood. One has this problem everywhere, and one can do what one likes; even if we wait for that new legislation, this method of transport cannot be wished away.

I should like to ask the hon the Administrator something. Since this is the era of privatisation, is it not possible to consider privatised taxi ranks? The hon the Administrator is looking at me very attentively. I thank him very much for that.

It works. Large chain stores are setting aside sections of their parking areas for this purpose. Everyone is doing this, but it must be done in such a way that they can sort it out among themselves.

What I want to ask the hon the Administrator, however, concerns something else. We have a problem with the ordinance and with the regulation of the ordinance. Since we are in the era of privatisation, is it not possible for someone with large premises to make areas available to accommodate these kombi taxis?

I invite the hon the Administrator to Elsies River Station.

†I want to meet him there one morning. I simply want him to come to have a look at what is taking place there. The road is completely blocked off. The situation is chaotic. The kombi taxis cannot make use of the bus interchange, and what does one find? A disorderly situation. Irrespective of what the police and the traffic controllers are trying to do, it is impossible to find a solution to the problem. What I wish to propose, therefore, is instead of purchasing property, to consider the possibility of asking such people whether they are prepared to deregularise and to privatise a section of their property. If it is necessary to introduce a bus interchange in Elsies River, for example, it will cost no less than R4 million and more just to purchase a certain portion of land to enlarge such an area. There is enough space in the area where one could apply to have a certain section of such parking areas set aside for use as a taxi rank. In turn it may be made the responsibility …

[Inaudible.]

When the hon the Administrator replies, he should say that very loudly so that everybody can hear what he says.

Instead of people standing around waiting, provision should be made so that such taxi ranks may be hired from such an owner who will have to see to security, ablution facilities and everything else in that connection, because the rank is being hired from him. That is actually the problem, namely that it should be hired from an individual, but at the moment such a situation does not exist. I want to know whether it is not possible …

[Inaudible.]

It will be considered reasonably. I am glad the hon the Administrator says so. We know the process of rezoning. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Bishop Lavis must please excuse me if I do not react directly to his speech; I should like to confine myself more specifically to my own constituency.

Please grant me an opportunity, at the very outset, to express my condolences, and those of my constituency, to the next of kin of those who died and those who were wounded in Ovambo.

I just want to make one remark, and that is that when we speak of whose tax is used for what purpose, and about whether we are making slow or rapid progress with reform, we must always remember that at the moment Whites, Blacks and Coloureds are fighting there side by side and that Whites, Blacks and Coloureds are dying there side by side. We honour their memory. They are also taking up the cudgels for South Africa there. I also want to express my appreciation for, and give my approval to, the conduct of the hon the Minister of Foreign Affairs and the hon the Minister of Defence during the past few days. I think it does South Africa credit.

Also grant me the privilege of congratulating the hon the Administrator and hon members of the Executive Committee, together with the department heads and the departments, on an excellent budget, and of thanking them for the way in which they administer the affairs of this vast Cape Province. This is a vast country with a diversity of people, regions and needs, and I think the result does credit to them and to the province.

My constituency Walvis Bay, approximately 2 000 km from here, also falls under the jurisdiction of the Cape Province. It is just a pity that Walvis Bay is not reflected anywhere in this budget. We know it is because Walvis Bay is under the direct control of the Department of Constitutional Development and Planning, but I wonder whether the hon the Administrator could not perhaps discuss with that department the possibility of our somehow moving a little closer to each other. It is true that the relationship between the second and third tiers of government is much more congenial and much more cohesive than that between the first and third tiers of government. I therefore think it would be in everyone’s interests, as far as that is concerned, if our budget were to be reflected a bit more prominently in the budget of the Cape Province where we proudly find ourselves today.

In referring to Walvis Bay, I must just remind hon members briefly that from 1922 to 1977 Walvis Bay was subject to the decrees of South West Africa. However good its intentions may have been, in the knowledge that Walvis Bay was not part of the territory of South West Africa, the South West African Government saw Walvis Bay as a harbour and industrial town and reserved all development in regard to tourism, etc, for our neighbouring town, Swakopmund. With the help of the Cape Provincial Administration and the Walvis Bay Development Committee, Walvis Bay is rapidly eliminating that backlog. We shall nevertheless always have to look to the CPA for help and assistance, advice and action.

With two full-fledged municipalities, a management committee and regional services council, Walvis Bay is well-equipped to give a good account of itself, and it is only too glad to do so.

At the very beginning, when the Cape Province had to begin administering Walvis Bay, the then Administrator of the Cape, Dr Lapa Munnik, was immediately faced with the first problem, and that was the absence of a divisional council. There was no divisional council to look after the roads outside the municipal area. That is why the then Administrator thought fit to issue a proclamation enlarging the municipal boundaries of Walvis Bay to include the whole area of Walvis Bay. Then Walvis Bay could use its equipment to maintain those roads, because normally no municipality may operate outside its own territorial sphere. That arrangement is working very well. With the assistance of the chief road engineer funds are being allocated to Walvis Bay annually. The town engineer of Walvis Bay must report on his activities and is not permitted to exceed that budget.

There are also other obstacles in regard to functions controlled by the province there, but as a result of the long distances, things are not always done as they should be done. I am not referring to the functions that are being dealt with very efficiently, for example those relating to schools, hospitals, etc. I am referring more specifically to the other functions which lie outside the municipal area.

I had the privilege of leading a deputation of all the municipalities of Walvis Bay and the regional services council. We conducted very fruitful discussions with the CPA under the chairmanship of the executive director, Mr Retief, and 13 or 14 of the senior officials, a meeting at which these problems were addressed.

I am very grateful to be able to mention that those discussions were very fruitful and productive. At that meeting the following main points were put to the department. The beaches outside the control of the Walvis Bay enclave are subject to pollution as a result of fishing boats and foreign vessels which dump anything under the sun into the sea; substandard access roads along the beach; no nature conservation being implemented in the enclave and a lack of any consistent supervision over the lagoon and the birdlife. In contrast to what is happening within the municipal area, the cleanliness of the rest of the enclave leaves much to be desired. Facilities are lacking for the increasing numbers of tourists from South West Africa and the RSA, particularly during holiday seasons. I could go further by also including Works and Nature Conservation, but these discussions went very well. The meeting also came to a decision, and I merely want to present hon members with one paragraph:

I again extend my sincere thanks for the wonderful attitude adopted, and I hope that when the officials get to the Executive Committee and the Administrator with their submission, this will promptly be put into effect because we believe that it is in the interests of the Cape Province. Walvis Bay has the necessary equipment and manpower, and by acting as an agent of the CPA, Walvis Bay can effect a cost saving for the province. This does not mean that we are not grateful for the CPA’s assistance, but we want to help in increasing productivity there and in utilising funds to better advantage.

I also want to focus the attention of the hon the MEC entrusted with Works on another problem—if I may identify it as a problem—and that is the synchronised ship-hoist in Walvis Bay. At present that ship-hoist falls under Works, but I do not believe it is actually a function that should fall under Works. In a submission made to the Walvis Bay Development Advisory Committee last week, Mr Mackie a member of the department, proposed that a management committee be appointed for the control of the ship-hoist. Personally I feel that by appointing a further committee we shall only be making things more cumbersome. The port director, Captain Sewell, offered to operate the ship-hoist for the province. I subsequently held in-depth discussions with him, and I really want to recommend to the hon the Administrator very strongly that he consider placing this ship-hoist under the control of the port director. It would be more functional under his control, because he has the equipment and manpower to maintain it, etc.

A second factor which should not be lost sight of is that in Walvis Bay we are repeatedly engaged in making exhaustive representations to the central government to have Walvis Bay declared a free port. By doing so, and by incorporating that facility into the harbour, a great burden would be taken from the hon the Administrator’s shoulders. We trust that he will really give this his sympathetic consideration.

I also want to focus attention on the regional services councils, of which one of the three in the Cape Province, since its establishment in Walvis Bay, has been performing its task very successfully. By the way, the regional services council in Walvis Bay is engaged in a very beautiful beach development which will be open to everyone. Many of these functions I have referred to could also successfully be devolved to the regional services council level. Our hon Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning recently referred to the problem of funds as far as the regional services councils were concerned. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, when we decided four years ago to participate in the tricameral Parliament, we cherished hopes that all forms of discrimination would be removed to make our lovely land a more beautiful and happier place for all population groups. Unfortunately that is not the case.

Undoubtedly remarkable political changes have taken place which have promoted sound racial relations to some degree. These changes can unfortunately not easily be discerned by strangers such as foreign visitors. As far as they are concerned, there is therefore little or no change. Foreign visitors to our province and country who swim at beaches near their hotel accommodation notice the boards which indicate that the beaches are demarcated for certain population groups or for Whites only. I am referring in this connection to beach facilities at Port Elizabeth, the Strand and Mossel Bay, about which so much has already been said this morning. The same applies to caravan parks and similar amenities with or without such notice boards. A very poor impression is created in general.

Americans and the governments of some European countries have left us in the lurch by applying trade and sport boycotts. At present our country is developing and promoting tourism. As a result of this, increasing numbers of tourists visit our country. A considerable number of these visitors are greatly interested in the development of our country and want to see the changes which have taken place for themselves as regards the abolition of apartheid about which they hear and read so much. These visitors are aware of the incidents in Boksburg, Carletonville and Kraaifontein and of open or segregated beaches and want to investigate this personally. During holiday periods, however, unpleasant incidents sometimes occur between various racial groups and at times even scuffles with the police are involved.

All notice boards must be removed and all beaches in our beautiful province be opened to all population groups. The same applies to amenities in the interior which are situated along rivers. I am thinking for instance of Riverton that has been reserved for Whites, and Langley, on the banks of the Vaal River near Kimberley, that has been reserved for non-Whites. In addition to the enormous difference in the standard of facilities—good at Riverton and extremely poor at Langley—provision must be made for the Coloured population, the Black community and the Asian population at the latter resort. That resort is much too small for this.

Facilities at all resorts in the interior must be extended and opened to all South Africans regardless of colour or race. If this is brought about, race relations will improve remarkably. Tension will be reduced and bonds of friendship will be established with all countries.

At present provincial hospitals fall under general affairs and conditions in the non-White sections of certain hospitals leave much to be desired. The MEC concerned is earnestly requested to do everything in his power to improve conditions in this regard. The age-old excuse that no funds are available should be set aside somewhat because diseases, especially those which are easily communicable like Aids, are not to be played with. Efforts by MPs and members of management committees to pay visits to hospitals did not receive the co-operation of some superintendents of hospitals. They were either too busy or needed at least a week’s notice so that a guide could be provided—as they claimed. In my opinion they merely want a chance to do a bit of window-dressing so that we get the impression when we arrive there that matters are not going too badly. They then put their best foot forward.

We are pleased that at present members of the Coloured and Asian communities are serving on hospital boards. They will therefore be asked to strive and to struggle to bring about changes.

In conclusion I should like to support this budget—except for the problems that I have just mentioned. I am convinced that these funds will be used to surmount some of the problems which I have mentioned here.

Mr Chairman, there is an old English saying which is taught to young schoolboys and which to my mind is particularly appropriate vis-á-vis the provincial administration and the affairs of this province. It is the saying: “Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practise to deceive.”

When the NP decided some years ago that they were going to reform apartheid but not really change, to reform but to remain in control, they set out on a path that has lead to this tangled web that we have today. Basically it is a path of deception to pretend that apartheid has to go, that rights are to be extended to the rest of the people of South Africa and at the same time not to let go of the control. That is a path of deception. The NP is caught in that tangled web today and the rest of us are paying the price for it. We have had an example quoted by the hon member for Groote Schuur of apartheid living on in our resorts which used to fall under the Cape Province. These resorts have been allocated to the different Houses as own affairs but in actual fact are still administered by the province. So what has changed? All we have is a tangled web.

Another example is what has happened to provincial government as a whole. Yesterday was a very sad experience for me. I walked into that old provincial chamber for the first time in just over eight years—the last time I sat there I was a member of the provincial council. I walked into what was a debating chamber, a chamber of people elected by constituencies to represent the interests of the Province and to sit together to debate the affairs of the Cape Province for some eight weeks of the year. What did we have there yesterday? On the one side we had some MPs allowed to sit there and speak and others to listen and on the other side we had a solid bank of appointees from the hon the Administrator right down to various officials facing the members of Parliament. Where was the Cape Province represented in that little scenario? It was not, because the MPs sitting there were proportional to the representation in this Parliament. The PFP was represented by one MP although we have six seats in the Cape Province. The CP was represented by two MPs although they have no seats in the Cape Province. So one can analyse the position vis-á-vis the strength of the parties sitting and discussing the affairs of the Cape Province.

It is a farcical situation. It was gratifying to see that people of colour were sitting there too. However, the biggest percentage of the population of the Cape Province was represented by an appointee, Mr Nyati, who, as sole representative of all his people, had to carry the load. He has my sympathy. Obviously one does not want to go backwards to pure White domination when it comes to the affairs of the province but we have to get an awful lot further than where we are today. We are now in the middle of a tangled web and this provincial dispensation is pathetic. What my party wants to see is the election of a non-racial democratic representative government for the affairs of the Cape Province.

It is bizarre, but in this respect the policy the NP has adopted in regard to devolution is a mirror image of that of the ANC. The new constitutional guidelines of the ANC call for a single central representative government and devolution takes place by way of appointees with delegated powers. That is what the NP has put in place today. We have government of a province by appointees. What the PFP says—and what the DP will say from next week on—and, as I understand it, what the LP says; in fact, what the majority of the people sitting in this Chamber say today—is that we should have a non-racial geographic federal government in South Africa. The NP is sitting here, tangled in its tricameral web because it has set out on a path of deception.

I should also like to touch on the question of beaches. Let us consider beaches. If ever there was a tangled web, then this is one. It is a fact that the province has the right to demarcate beaches. This right was granted to them in terms of the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act, Act No 49 of 1953. The power was delegated to the local authorities and it was withdrawn again. There is a fair amount of legal debating on the issue in regard to the blurring that took place with the delegation of such powers and their consequent withdrawal. However, it is a fact that today they have the legal power to demarcate the beaches. It is also a fact that the province has resisted the Municipality of Port Elizabeth’s decision to the effect that they do not want their beaches demarcated, and the province has done nothing with regard to the appeal from the East London Municipality to do the same thing.

It is also a fact that many beaches in the Cape Province are still being demarcated and that the signs still stand there for everybody to see. I am not aware of any beach in the Cape Province that has been undemarcated. If there is an example, I should like to hear about it. Where are we going? When the hon member for Wynberg gets up here and says we are moving away from apartheid, I ask him where the movement is. Where is the movement away from apartheid in respect of beach apartheid? [Interjections.] That hon member actually knows better than that.

Mr Chairman, there have been no changes in regard to the removal of demarcation on our beaches. We heard that the hon the Administrator, although he has the power to demarcate or undemarcate, requested that the signs should be removed in the case of Mossel Bay. He did not ask that the beach should be declared open completely but he only requested that the signs should be removed because Mossel Bay was going to be the focus of international attention for a while. We hear that the signs are back—and what has the province done in that regard? [Interjections.] They did not exercise their power in respect of Mossel Bay to declare open an amenity or to move away from apartheid. It was merely a public relations exercise for a temporary period.

Finally, yesterday in the discussions in the joint committee the hon MEC Mr Schoeman said that the province demarcates but they do not monitor. They do not actually know if the signs are up on the various beaches. They do not go there to ensure that the local authorities are upholding the demarcation regulations.

That is really—words fail me!—the policy of the NP—to demarcate and then not to uphold the demarcation!

Let us have some honesty. If they want to demarcate and be racist they must say so and do it and then follow through by putting up a sign. They know what we and most of this House believe in. For over 300 years there was no demarcation. We do not need it. It is immoral and must go. They must just go ahead and open the beaches. However, if they have racially demarcated them then they must have the honesty to let it be seen that they have demarcated them. They must not leave the municipalities hanging in the air not knowing what to do.

Let us take the example of Gordon’s Bay. In Gordon’s Bay, which is the constituency of the hon the leader of the NP in the Cape Province, Mr Heunis, there are signs. In the Strand there are also signs. If one goes round the corner there are signs in Kogel Bay, Betty’s Bay and Kleinmond. There are signs wherever one goes. I challenged the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning on this issue at the time of the Boksburg affair asking what could be a greater anomaly than that the NP should attack the CP for putting up signs in Boksburg when in terms of NP law and in the heartland of a NP constituency of a NP province in a NP controlled municipality they have these signs. When the hon the Minister was challenged he said we should refer to the town council. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I think that one thing that must be exceptionally difficult to do at this time is to speak, as this hon member has to do, as a member of the PFP, on the eve of his party’s funeral. He only has a few days left, and I want to wish him all the best for Saturday.

The hon member mentioned that yesterday was the first time in eight years that he had set foot in the provincial council and that they had only one representative on the joint committee. However, he does not give all the facts. In the first place it was a standing committee. He has his turn to speak today in this House. What are the facts?

The facts are that the PFP has been allocated 65 minutes for this debate as against the CP’s 50 minutes, and then the hon member for Claremont also has a further 10 minutes—that is a total of 75 minutes. The ratio is not completely out of proportion, as he wants to make out here.

What is more, he mentions only the fact that MECs and the hon the Administrator are not represented by a constituency, but does not mention the step forward that has been taken by virtue of the fact that he could also be present in that provincial council yesterday, the council which in contrast with eight years ago, is now multiracial. Surely this is a step in the right direction? Surely this is a step on the road to reform? Why does he not, for once, give credit for what the Government is doing in this regard?

Referring to the hon member for Groot Schuur who made a great fuss about discriminatory measures in hospital and health services, I did not hear a single suggestion on his part as to how something constructive might be done to improve the situation. All they can do is to be negative and destructive.

Referring to the hon member for Walvis Bay I should like to congratulate him most sincerely on his birthday. If we on this side of the House had one beneficent birthday wish for the arid South West Africa it would be that the peace we are all hoping for would descend on South West Africa during this year in which he is celebrating his birthday.

I take the strongest exception to the statement made here by the hon member for Losberg. He tried to make political capital of the tragic events that have been taking place since Saturday in SWA-Namibia. This is reprehensible, and the nation should be ashamed of people who make this kind of remark in this House.

Before I exchange a few ideas about the hospital department, I want to refer in passing to the so-called Jocelyn Kane-Berman issue since it will no doubt be brought up in this debate. I am personally quite happy and satisfied that the whole matter has at last been cleared up to the obvious satisfaction of everyone.

Without going into all the facts, this morning I want to put a question to the hon members who tried to carry out character assassinations on the hon the Administrator and the hon MEC. I want to refer specifically to the hon member for Claremont. I have here a stack of newspaper cuttings, and specifically one dated 6 December 1988, in which the hon member for Claremont is quoted. I think he should be ashamed of himself.

What would the position have been in the private enterprise firm of the hon the leader of the PFP—without mentioning the firm’s name—if middle management in that undertaking had suggested that Dr Zac de Beer should be replaced by a man such as Eugéne Terre’Blanche, while the hon member was the managing director? What would have happened to that man in middle management? In lighter vein I could even ask what would happen if that person in middle management were to propose that the deputy chairman of that board of directors should be replaced by Jani Allen. [Interjections.] I think that such a person would have been out of that particular firm on his ear. [Interjections.]

It is true that today there is tremendous additional pressure on our health services, as I see it because of two reasons in particular. The one is the population growth owing to migratory trends, and then there is also the financial capability of the provinces. I need only refer … [Interjections.] No, there are also other reasons.

I need only refer to the newspaper report of 7 March in which the hon MEC gave a comprehensive report on the financial position in the hospital department. My question is just this: If we want to give effect to every request and if we want to complete Groote Schuur Hospital tomorrow, as everybody would wish us to do, where must we scale things down? Must we scale down on our security force expenditure, on education or on housing? [Interjections.] Where must we scale things down?

It is true that in any developing society there is a period of population growth, for two reasons in particular. The one is better medical services and then there is also the normal process of aging in such a milieu. The result is that we get additional pressure on our health services.

Having studied all the documents, I am satisfied today that this department has done enough forward planning for the pressure which has developed in our metropolitan areas as a result of factors such as I have just mentioned. I am now referring specifically to the development of day hospitals, clinics, etc.

If we look at Khayelitsha we find that there are three health centres there today. We find a modern centre at Crossroads. I was told that recently, during the visit of the American Medical Association, they heaped praise on the health services of the Cape Provincial Administration. I want to congratulate the hon the Administrator, the hon MEC and Dr Watermeyer on the standard they have set. We must constantly examine new methods.

Today I also want to thank the private sector for its contribution. I need only refer to my home town with its modern private hospital. The former MEC for hospital services will agree with me that it has brought great relief to the provincial hospitals.

I am, however, worried about the depletion of medical services in the rural areas. What is the present-day trend? The doctors go to the towns to practise their profession. My question is: What can the authorities do to bring about a better and more proportionate distribution of medical services for the rural areas? My answer this morning would be that we should ask a statutory body to set a standard and submit proposals in this regard.

A further question is whether there is currently an imbalance between general practitioners and specialists. Should there not be greater emphasis in South Africa on the training of general practitioners? It is true that doctors at training hospitals are overloaded. To make it possible to scale this down, we should in my opinion, devote more attention to obtaining better equipment for regional hospitals, for example those in George, Hottentots Holland, Vredenburg, Worcester, etc.

If we look at the Budget we find that this year the two large training hospitals are receiving an amount of R347 million, as against the overall budget of R1,5 billion for health services, which includes all services. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I want to thank you for this opportunity to ask the Administrator a question. Has he decided about the beaches in Port Elizabeth? What was the decision and when will a statement on these beaches, as well as other beaches, be issued? I shall appreciate it if he could give me a reply to this.

I want to dwell for a moment on local authorities. In October last year an election for all three population groups took place. Great expectations were aroused by such preceding advertisements as this: “Now you are going to govern yourselves”, “It is really going to be heaven on earth”. After the election, however, things did not work out according to expectations. People of stature declared themselves eligible for election because it created the opportunity for them to achieve something for their communities and their people. To their disillusionment no one realized that it was the same garb, only with other cloth. Our people became frustrated and difficult, because they were still in that advisory position.

We must remember that one cannot tread on a person’s toes every day. The day will come when he will retaliate. Our community is retaliating. We are being used only for evictions. We are being used to do the dirty work.

We are being used to stir up further trouble, because the community points a finger at the management committee because it is the only “power” which the management committee has at the moment. It is the attitude of the town clerks which is so frustrating. There are good town clerks in our country, but there are also those who are not so good. [Interjections.] There are town clerks who confuse a community. [Interjections.]

Order! The hon member for Britstown may proceed.

There are also town clerks who do not confuse the community. [Interjections.] They are few and far between and are a credit to that town council. [Interjections.]

In a certain town in my constituency representations were made to the council and they were asked to install a few street lamps. However, they were told that vandals would destroy it. [Interjections.] During the Christmas period a request was made to them for night-soil to be removed three times a week. The reply was that it had been removed twice a week for years, and that the request that it be removed three times a week was unreasonable. [Interjections.] Frustration built up and the people became difficult. They resigned and their resignation did a great deal of harm to the town, something which we cannot afford in South Africa. Relations were impaired simply because a few basic requests had been made.

The system of management committees is not the policy of my party. We believe in joint sittings, as we are doing here this afternoon. Is it not possible for provinces to address a constant stream of letters to town clerks, especially those who are not so good, to ask them to improve relations? If they do not know how to improve them, the province can send its officials to these town clerks and their officials to inform the people on how to create sound relations. We in South Africa are capable of doing anything successfully. The other day I read that the Rugby Board was making arrangements for us to go and play rugby in Moscow. Hon members can believe it if they will! South Africa will succeed. In this way we can also repair these relations which are impaired at present. This one resignation is only the start of a series of resignations. It is the only way in which our people can show their dissatisfaction.

We consulted the council about leaking roofs. The reply was that we had to tell the people to buy the houses and that they would then be given a discount. Most of those people are pensioners. When people resigned, the public relations officer also had to go. The sullying of relationships does not come from the management and our people. Why did the official of the management committee have to go there, after the harm had been done? Can the official not go there before these things happen and in this way save the whole situation? This is the problem we are confronted with. It is concerned with relations. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure for me to speak after the hon member for Britstown. I am not going to react now to all the objections he raised, particularly in respect of town clerks, because I trust that the MEC concerned will provide him with an adequate reply.

Today, in this debate, I should like to express a few thoughts on the increasing pressure which is being placed on hospital and health services in this province as a result of the trend towards increasing urbanisation. The hon member for George has already referred to this, and today I should like to deal with this subject in greater detail.

In the present budget before this committee an amount of R1 576 758 000 is being appropriated for our hospital and health services for the ensuing financial year. Upon further analysis we find that an amount of R1 432 417 000 of this total budget is being appropriated for hospital and health services in the areas of Cape Town, Port Elizabeth, East London and Kimberley. It is significant that the major part of the budget is being appropriated for hospital and health services in urban complexes. For reasons I shall mention later in my speech, and as a result of the facts I shall then mention, the statement can be made at this early stage that this figure in respect of expenditure in the urban complexes, particularly in the Cape Province, will escalate in future.

At present the South African population is becoming urbanised, and demographs have brought to our attention that by the year 2000 more than 80% of the total population of South Africa will be living in cities. At present approximately 10,5 million Black people are living in cities, and in 1987 this represented 40% of the total Black population. It is expected that by the year 2000 75% of the total Black population of South Africa will be living in cities.

As regards the Coloured population it is calculated at present that in 1987 2,2 million people were living in cities, which represented 70% of the total population, and it is estimated that by the year 2000 86% of the Coloured population will be living in our cities.

As regards the Indian population 850 000 are at present living in cities, which represents 93%, and it is estimated that by the year 2000 this figure will have remained more or less constant.

Approximately 4,4 million members of the White population are at present living in cities, which represents 90% of the total population, and it is estimated that by the year 2000 approximately 93% of the total White population will be living in our cities.

These figures and the urbanisation trends confirm what is inevitably going to happen in the South African context. The question may with justification be asked what benefits urbanisation constitutes for people’s general state of health and what additional demands are going to be made on the authorities concerned.

It may justifiably be said that urbanisation in itself constitutes many advantages. In an article in the South African Medical Journal, volume 74, of 19 November 1988, the editor writes the following in an article on urbanisation:

It is therefore clear that urbanisation has advantages in that the general standard of living of people is enhanced. Subsequently in the same article the author continues:

Research has indicated that controlled rapid urbanisation definitely leads to a general improvement in all facets of the state of health of people. Although urbanisation could possibly have certain other disadvantages, it does have positive aspects in as far as people’s health is concerned, but one must continue to give constant attention to the negative aspects of urbanisation and the accommodation of the positive aspects.

Consequently it was gratifying that the Department of National Health and Population Development has at present placed funds at the disposal of the South African Medical Research Council to enable it to undertake a 10-year study of urbanisation, in co-operation with community departments and certain other health services.

From what I have said above, and given that urbanisation in South Africa is an established fact, one may justifiably state that as urbanisation takes place there will be ever increasing pressure on hospital and health services in South Africa, particularly in our case in the Cape Province. In future there is going to be a greater degree of pressure on this Vote in order to provide more people with health services, and future allocation of funds will continue to comprise the greatest part of the budget.

In 1980 the Cape Provincial Administration provided 16 939 in-patients with services, and in 1987 this figure had grown to 31 412. In 1980 the province provided 224 437 out-patients with medical services, and seven years later, in 1987, this figure had grown to 525 060. These figures convey only one message, which is that there is a tremendous demand for medical services on the part of a population which is becoming urbanised to a an increasing extent.

I should like to place on record today that the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee, as well as the Director of Hospital Services and her staff deserve great praise because they have constantly succeeded in providing world-class medical services, in spite of the tremendous pressure on facilities and funds. The future is going to make great demands on the authorities in respect of the rendering of hospital and health services, particularly in the urban areas of the Cape Province. However, it is going to be simply impossible without the expansion of facilities and without more funds to remunerate more medical personnel to meet the challenges of the future in this connection.

Alternative methods for rendering health care and health services must be sought and this must be done now. In this connection I once again wish to welcome the research that has already been done. The Cape has never flinched from challenges in the medical sphere. We shall never do so, but new thinking for new challenges, as well as new methods will have to be found for the future.

Mr Chairman, I want to start off by mentioning that a Frenchman once asked a Swiss why it was that the Swiss always fought for money while the French only fought for honour. The reply was: “I suppose that each fights for what he lacks most.” Mr Chairman, the people who are termed Coloureds mostly lack the ability to live life to its fullest and not merely to exist.

*One of the most important forestry regions in the Western Cape falls in my constituency. Part of it also belongs to the CPA. I request that proper conditions of service be prescribed for the forestry workers who came from the Department of Forestry to the CPA. They are working there without proper conditions of service and do not know where they stand. In the first place they are still temporary employees although many of them have seen more than 20 years’ service with the Department of Forestry. They were taken over by the CPA under the same conditions, that is as temporary employees. This means that they may be dismissed within 24 hours. Their pension benefits are so meagre that when they go on retirement they receive a reduced pension. I can also add that a temporary employee drawing a pension receives no gratuity. [Interjections.] I now ask whether White employees of the CPA forestry department are discriminated against in the same way.

I next want to look at the starting salary of workers, especially in the AA category. Their starting salary is R223,25 gross. [Interjections.] An R223,25 gross starting salary—category AA! [Interjections.] Is this meagre salary in accordance with the work which these people have to carry out. This salary cries to high heaven! Just think what this person’s net salary must be if one takes into account that a salary cheque nowadays is merely a receipt with small change. I mean by this that all deductions are made even before the cheque reaches the employee. If we look at the gross salary, what must the net salary look like?

In addition I want to mention that CPA forestry workers live in houses which are provided by the CPA at the forestry station. What becomes of those people, however, when they retire on pension or have to retire because some disability leaves them unsuitable for service? There is no provision in such a case. Many of these people have been brought from other places to work for the CPA and they left their home towns to come and work in a strange area. They live and work there for many years and obviously acquire a circle of friends there. The day they have to go on pension they therefore want to continue living in that area. I now ask why the CPA cannot grant those employees housing loans while they are in good health so that they can build houses for themselves in the town of their choice. Why can they not be granted subsidies so that on retirement they will actually own a house? They cannot build houses for themselves the day they go on pension! They do not need loans or subsidies then. They need these benefits while they are working. Please give them these loans and subsidies now while they are working so that they may make provision for their retirement. When they go on pension there will therefore be no problem as regards their accommodation.

Mr Chairman, I now get to another aspect of remuneration. Recently an increase was announced in the salary package for nature conservationists. This increase was cancelled again immediately. The private sector pays extremely competitive salaries which pose a threat to the Public Service. Our highly qualified conservationists are leaving the service of the CPA because their salary package creates too many problems for them. In other words, it is an insult to them to work for the CPA at that meagre salary. They therefore go to work in the private sector. These people must be retained by paying them good competitive salaries in comparison with what the private sector offers. We cannot afford to lose these people.

I also want to thank the CPA very much for the money which they have voted for holiday facilities, especially those at Kleinmond. I request them to ensure them that money is voted for the development of our beaches, especially at Romansbaai—this is near Gansbaai—and at Skulphoek—that is near Hermanus—and at Hawston too of course. We have chosen very beautiful places where holiday facilities can be erected for our people but we do not have the funds at our disposal to develop those places. I request the CPA to assist us with funds for the development of those holiday resorts.

Mr Chairman, I now get to a very sensitive point. That is the remuneration of the members of our management committees. [Interjections.] The members of our management committees receive remuneration which is much lower than that of White councillors. This matter must be put right now please. The members of our management committees must receive the same remuneration as White councillors. If a municipality feels it is so poor that it cannot afford that remuneration, the minimum remuneration must be paid to Whites and non-Whites. There must be no difference in payment. In cases in which White councillors do not receive remuneration, this is understandable. In cases where they do receive remuneration, however, their remuneration must be equal to that of the members of our management committees. The remuneration of the members of our management committees must be equal to and not 50% of the remuneration of Whites! In certain towns in my constituency members of our management committees receive 50% of what White councillors receive and that is quite wrong. This should not happen.

Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure to follow the hon member for Hawston. I think he put his case, particularly when he spoke about the allowance of the management committee members, with so much conviction that we should perhaps move that he should be made the chairman of the committee which must consider the remuneration of members of Parliament. This will probably be accepted by everyone and he may achieve a great deal there too.

Mr Theo Rudman, the director of the Employment Institute recently said the following, and I am quoting from Die Burger:

In conjunction with the high unemployment figure, urbanisation and other factors, problems are being experienced to an increasing extent in connection with the disintegration of families and alcohol and drug abuse. The high percentage of unemployment linked to a low level of education is causing concern and can also cause major social welfare problems. The rendering of social welfare services in the Northern Cape is setting challenges for which unique solutions must sometimes be found. The rural area in the Northern Cape is remote and vast and virtually no other organisations are rendering any services in the area.

At the moment there are only nine social workers in the service of the CPA community services in the Northern Cape. Vacancies still exist in 11 posts as well as two posts of chief social worker. Owing to the shortage of qualified social workers married female social workers are being appointed in the towns in which they live and they must then render services to the surrounding towns. That state of affairs is causing extra travelling costs and very unproductive hours which are spent in vehicles. Owing to the lack of guidance because of vacancies in senior posts in most cases the workers have to rely on their own abilities. I think it has become essential to hold discussions with the Commission for Administration with a view to possibly making more bursaries available for the training of social workers.

In the Northern Cape region seven posts have also been created for community developers. The purpose of these appointments is to assist Black communities to identify needs in the community and then prepare programmes to meet those needs. This therefore concerns expert guidance being given to communities to improve their quality of life; in other words to help people to help themselves. Interviews to fill the said seven posts will be held soon and I believe this service will eventually meet a very great need in that part of our province.

A very good example of this kind of service is where training is given to our women to learn handicrafts in order to supplement the family income and improve the quality of life in Black residential areas. An analysis of the age structure of the Black population group indicates that only approximately 5% fall in the age group above 65 years. For the aged emphasis is placed specifically on the development of small service centres in residential areas to ensure that elderly persons can remain in their communities as long as possible. A large number of these elderly persons also receive a pension.

In the Northern Cape region 19 posts have been established in the pensions division since January 1989 and from April of this year this division has taken over the payment of pensions and allowances from the Departments of Home Affairs and of Justice. From that date the pensions are also paid out every month instead of every second month as was the case in the past.

I cannot help disagreeing with the hon member for Losberg who feels that this pension should be collected from the Black community itself. The hon member says that 90% of the tax comes from the White community. Let us assume for a moment that he is correct. I believe, however, that one pays income tax only on the basis of one’s income. What is the hon member actually saying? He is saying that the Whites also have 90% of the country’s revenue and therefore his remark makes no sense to me.

Fifty percent of the total Black population in the Northern Cape is under the age of 20. A place of safety for youngsters in custody, ie youths under the age of 18 years awaiting trial in terms of the Criminal Procedure Act, will probably be completed at Galeshewe by 1 May. Provision is being made for 96 children. This is the first institution of its kind for Black children in the Northern Cape. The building is situated on a piece of land, 2,5 hectares in size, on which a soccer field can also be built. Youths will be supplied with school uniforms and with clothes. The well-known prison uniform will not be worn, and parents and relatives will also be encouraged to visit these children. The institute’s staff will consist of psychiatrists, social workers, nurses and teachers. Education will be given up to Std 5. This institution will be more than merely a place of safety. I believe that it will really be an educational institution.

In the Northern Cape there is also a great need for a place of safety for children who have to be placed in such an institution in terms of the Child Care Act. It is with extreme gratitude that we take cognisance of the fact that such a place of safety is being planned which will make provision for 100 children. Today I would like to ask that funds be found so that a State children’s home can be built in order to educate these unfortunate children in the atmosphere of a normal home. It would be ideal, for example, to plan ten small units or cottages in which ten children could be placed under the supervision of a housemother and father. This children’s home can be built and equipped in such a way that physically handicapped children can also be accommodated in it.

I realise only too well that the things hon members and I have been asking for here today are going to cost a lot of money and that the money is not available. However, I believe that we must stop simply begging for favours. I believe that the local communities of all the population groups must make a joint effort with the department to meet these needs.

In conclusion I want to express my thanks and appreciation to the hon the Administrator, the MECs and every official who is building—not with stones and bricks but to uplift people.

Mr Chairman, I was ashamed just now to hear that the hon member for Losberg begrudged the Black population an increase in pensions and social allowances. What a pity it was to hear that more was to be taken away from those people who are most in need of pensions and allowances!

In the same breath I want to make an urgent appeal to the hon the Administrator and the MECs to continue to increase the pensions and allowances of the Black population until general parity with the Whites has been reached.

I also want to take this opportunity to thank the Provincial Administration for the funds that were granted for the upgrading and the rebuilding of the Ceres-Wolseley Road through Mitchell’s Pass. This construction is being done by the administration itself and in this way significant savings are being effected. However, I want to express the hope that a toll-gate is not going to be introduced on this road. [Interjections.] I also want to thank him for the promotion of Messrs Pieterse and Page as head officials, these gentlemen having been transferred from the Administration: House of Representatives to the service of the Provincial Administration. I trust that this is the beginning of an era in which many more people from other population groups will be assimilated into the CPA as personnel.

I also want to compliment the Department of Traffic Control on having been able to keep the road accident rate during the past Easter weekend so low. I also want to thank the hon the Administrator for the reinstatement of Dr Kane-Berman to her original post at Groote Schuur Hospital.

I want to appeal to the Provincial Administration to look at the possibility of the upgrading, widening and construction of the following main roads in the Boland. Firstly, the Robertson-Worcester Road. This is a road which carries heavy traffic. From Port Elizabeth to Robertson, the road has a wide surface, but between Robertson and Worcester a bottle-neck is created for traffic. This narrow road can no longer carry the increasingly heavy traffic.

Secondly, I am referring to the Worcester-Du Toitskloof Pass Road. The Afrikaanse Handelsinstituut expressed its concern at its annual general meeting in Worcester on 28 March this year with regard to the slow rate at which the rebuilding of the single lane road into a dual carriageway between Worcester and the Huguenot Tunnel was taking place. As in the case of the Robertson-Worcester Road, the traffic density is also beginning to increase rapidly here. I want to request that funds be made available to speed up the upgrading of the road and that further upgrading up to the Huguenot Tunnel be approved.

I now come to the McGregor-Greyton Road. If the Provincial Administration is unable to acquire the necessary funds for this McGregor-Greyton Road, my colleague the hon member for Robertson has a solution to the problem of this bottle-neck. He suggests and also requests that the Provincial Administration build a main road over the mountain between McGregor and Greyton. Construction of this road was started and then stopped, but it would have the advantage of shortening the route between Robertson, McGregor and Cape Town considerably while at the same time easing the increasing flow of traffic on the roads which I have already mentioned. Here people will not even object to paying a toll. [Interjections.] We shall wait until the road has been built and then object to the toll road, as there will, in fact, be an alternative route to Cape Town. According to the inhabitants of McGregor, they can walk this route to Greyton and it will be quicker to travel by bicycle from McGregor to Greyton on the proposed road than it will be to travel to Greyton on the existing road by car.

I want to thank the province for the amount of approximately R875 000 which they made available for the upgrading of the Disselfontein-Tandfontein Road. However, I want to appeal to the provincial authorities to make further funds available for the same road so that the most important part of the road between the Kouebokkeveld and Citrusdal, namely the Middelberg Pass, which is perilous, can be upgraded. Export fruit is sold to overseas markets from this area and the farmers in this area make a large contribution towards obtaining that essential foreign exchange.

Furthermore, I also want to refer to a letter which appeared in the letters column of Die Burger of 23 March this year under the heading “Pad op Sir Lowrypas uiters gevaarlik”. In this letter a nature lover complains that the crossing where one turns right from the parking area at the footpath on top of Sir Lowry’s Pass onto the N2 towards Cape Town, is extremely dangerous. I want to request the province to make this turn-off on the N2 on Sir Lowry’s Pass a safe one.

With regard to traffic control, I just want to draw the attention of the traffic department to the fact that the Department of Transport is at present engaged in the construction of the Swartklip-Khayelitsha-Mitchell’s Plain interchange. Serious traffic jams and serious traffic offences take place at this junction because no traffic control is exercised here. It appears that the traffic department has forgotten about this part of the Cape.

I now want to come to my constituency. Here I want firstly to thank the hon Mr Deon Adams, MEC, for the many projects which he has initiated and completed in Ceres, Touws River and environs. Furthermore I also want to appeal to the Administrator and the members of his Executive Committee to give sympathetic consideration to the requests of Messrs Adams, Samuels and Nyati, all MECs, whenever they make such requests for the approval of projects for the communities of our other population groups, which imply the allocation of funds. Those MECs represent repressed and unfortunate communities which still reject our participation in the present constitutional system to a large degree. It is through the successful erection of projects within our residential areas that we will be able to justify our participation to our people.

With regard to the Ceres-Bella Vista Road, I want to appeal to the province to subsidise the divisional council in order to provide street lighting along this road. The community of Bella Vista also needs a swimming pool, and I want to ask the province to seriously consider providing funds for this purpose. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is pleasure for me to speak after the hon member for Bokkeveld. As I listened to the hon member, it appeared that the Administrator would have to fill the role of Santa Claus.

Furthermore, I just want to react to the hon member’s speech by saying that I want to oppose him to a degree, because he should remember that the Cape Province does not end at the Hex River Mountains.

My impression with regard to the upgrading of roads is that the Boland has far too many tarred roads. There are certain places which would have been able to make do with dirt roads, but they have tarred roads. My hon colleague from King William’s Town has just reminded me once again that there is a road in our area which is in urgent need of upgrading. I think the hon the Administrator has already heard about this road in a few speeches which were made in the old Provincial Council. I believe that this road was also mentioned last year in this extended committee. [Interjections.]

However, as a result of the fact that it is essential that the link road to Keimond be tarred, I want to ask once again that it be placed higher on the priority list.

I now want to turn my attention to the new road traffic legislation which was recently adopted by Parliament, as well as to the implications of this legislation, specifically the implications for the Administration of the Cape Province. In terms of this legislation, most of the functions have been delegated to the hon the Administrator, who will in turn delegate functions to local authorities.

The essence of this legislation lies in the fact that the existing road traffic ordinances of the four provinces are consolidated. The second leg, which is the most important leg of the legislation, is the implementation of the road traffic quality system. This implies purposeful and practical law enforcement. I do not want to go into detail, because the legislation has been thoroughly discussed.

However, I want to come to the role which the law enforcement officer plays. With regard to ordinary law enforcement by the members of the SAP, we are dealing with a person or a personality that enjoys a reasonable amount of respect from the public. However, this is not the case with the traffic officer. They are given all types of nasty names, from “speed cop” to “knights of the shady trees” and the “phantom in the Sierra”. There are also other names which I cannot mention in this honourable company. While this image exists in the minds of the travelling public of South Africa, the traffic officer will not be able to play his role as law enforcement officer properly.

There are aspects of his job which make it difficult for the traffic officer to rid himself of this image of the speed cop who sits behind the tree waiting to catch someone. Firstly, the problem lies with the specific authority where that person is employed. It is a pity that the hon member for Bishop Lavis is not here, because he has experience of this profession.

An old speed cop!

He is an old knight of the shady trees. [Interjections.] I cannot say whether or not he will return to this profession. If he were to return, as hon members are suggesting, one would like him to be able to play his role as a safety officer on our roads more effectively than is the case at present.

Today, the situation in a local authority is such that the productivity of a traffic officer, a law enforcement officer, is not measured in terms of the degree to which he promotes safety on the roads, but by how many tickets he writes out. If he reports to his chief on Friday afternoon and the latter considers that he has not written out enough tickets, he is in trouble. If, at the end of the financial year, the income from that source compared to the budget of the local authority, is not sufficient, the chief traffic officer is in trouble. I am making an appeal that fines which are received and paid be placed into a special fund so that this money can be used to promote road safety. At the moment, that income is being placed into a general income fund in the case of local authorities.

When last did you receive a fine?

Fortunately it was a long time ago.

Funds arising from fines for parking offences are placed into a special fund for the obtaining of more parking space and the upgrading of parking spaces within a local authority area.

If we look at the role of the law enforcement officer and we really want to make him a person who is going to make a positive contribution with regard to road safety, we will have to think seriously about striving to change his image so that people will be able to regard him as a friend of the travelling public and of the pedestrian. He must not be seen as someone who has to return with a little book full of tickets every Friday afternoon. We must destroy that image. I think Leon Schuster wrote a song about a traffic constable along the following lines …

Sing it to us. [Interjections.]

Unfortunately, the Chair will not grant me permission to sing the song, but it amounts to the fact that the traffic constable is ridiculed because he has only one aim in mind, and that is to fill his little book before Friday afternoon. I appeal to the hon the Administrator to look into this.

Furthermore, I want to know whether a survey has already been conducted in the Cape Province in terms of the facilities for which provision is made in this legislation in order to establish whether there are any private concerns which have test stations where motor vehicles can be tested for roadworthiness. I understand that there are a considerable number of private concerns in the Transvaal and in Natal which will be able to render assistance in this regard. I wonder whether this would be possible in the Cape Province. I should like to know whether such a facility does exist. The pressure on local authorities is going to increase tremendously because professional driving permits will have to be issued every two years and roadworthy certificates will have to be issued annually in terms of this legislation. Tremendous pressure will be brought to bear on the local authorities, and the only solution to this problem will be to ultimately consider privatisation, as is provided for in the legislation.

Furthermore, I want to talk about the training of the drivers of ordinary passenger cars, not only in our province but in the whole country. It is encouraging to see that the legislation makes provision for the standardisation of testing, specifically with regard to the theoretical testing of people applying for a driver’s licence. When a person has eventually obtained his driver’s licence, that person is not yet qualified to drive a motor vehicle. Quite unlike airline pilots, a person who has received his driver’s licence, is a danger on the road, because he has not been subjected to a test of competency. We will have to look into this. When it comes to the practical testing of a person, we shall have to ensure that arrangements are made in order to test that person’s competency. I am thinking, for example, of the possibility of making it compulsory in future for people in areas such as the Cape Peninsula to be forced to undergo a test on a skid-pan to see what such a person would do if a motor car began to skid on a wet road. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I should like to express my appreciation to those hon members who expressed their appreciation for the work that the province is doing. I also wish to express my appreciation for the criticism that has been expressed. We welcome criticism, particularly if we can make use of it and assimilate it, and translate it into action for the betterment of those services from which each and every one of us must benefit.

Not only do we wish on this occasion to listen to the suggestions that are being offered by hon members, but I also want to give the assurance that our door is open to them at all times throughout the year, from one sitting to the next, should they care to make any contributions. We should be pleased to consider them. In many instances, perhaps in most instances, we shall not be able to help them, but we shall be pleased to tell them why we cannot help them.

To begin with, I should like at this juncture to dwell just a little on the subject of finance. After all, this is why we are gathered here, namely to account for the expenditure of funds. I should also like to take this opportunity to dwell on the substantial problems that we are experiencing in this regard and which are having a serious and a detrimental effect on the performance of our work. During the course of the afternoon, and again tomorrow, the various hon members of the Executive Committee will devote the time at their disposal to replying to more specific aspects which were mentioned during the debate.

†I consider it necessary that hon members be aware of the challenges my administration will have to meet and the restraints under which we shall have to function during the financial year 1989-90, with specific references to certain aspects—I shall mention them—and also problems we have to cope with, all having an extremely detrimental effect on the execution of our work, our responsibilities and on our budget.

Firstly, there is the geographical factor, namely that the province constitutes 60% of the total area of the Republic of South Africa. This province is very sparsely populated. There are vastly different climatic conditions and the costs of services over the whole of the Cape Province are unfortunately sky high, in that we have 2 042 km of coastline, and we shall be faced with a continuous struggle to find a fine balance between the needs of the growing community and the need to preserve the natural heritage which we hold in trust for generations to come.

There is also a demographic factor, where the majority of the 5 million odd inhabitants of our province are economically disadvantaged and qualify for most of the social services provided by the CPA, such as free hospital services, pensions, grants etc. Our population growth is unmanageably high, with an ever-growing demand for services. Thousands of rural people—perhaps hundreds of thousands—are moving to urban areas in search of work and a better future, thus placing a tremendous financial burden on our shoulders with regard to infrastructure, housing, welfare and other matters.

Then there is the economic factor, and although committed to the Government’s policy to reduce public spending and ensure financial discipline this unfortunate and detrimental economic situation has arisen at a time when the province has had to take over all own affair functions, except education, in respect of Blacks, under the 1989-90 budget. In total this budget provides for an expenditure of some R2,935 billion, which unfortunately is less than the revised budget for the previous year. What I am trying to say is that we cannot even cope with the rate of inflation.

Restraints have been placed on the rendering of essential services as a result of the freezing of posts. In some cases the staff employed at present just cannot cope with their workloads. The administration will continue to provide adequate services under extremely difficult financial and economic conditions, but at the same time I must caution that this situation could lead to a scaling down or cessation of certain provincial services to which the public have become accustomed over the years.

There is also a political factor. In addition to the drastic increase in the responsibilities taken over from central Government, it must be borne in mind that the province is responsible for the execution of laws passed by Parliament and for the carrying out of the executive policy formulated at Government level. The provincial government is at all times subject to general policy laid down by Parliament and we are obliged to carry out such policy, which we do as humanely as possible. It would serve little purpose, therefore, to take political issue with provincial office-bearers regarding laws and policy formulated by Parliament and central Government. Such issues should be addressed to the responsible Minister. This also refers to the statement and speech by the hon member for Rylands.

*In so far as hospital and health services are concerned, I want to say in all honesty that I am concerned that because the financial cake which has to be divided among the State departments and the four provincial administrations is becoming smaller, less money may be spent on curative services in order to provide for the increasing health needs of the rapidly growing population of the Cape. I am not satisfied with the quality of health services in at least 36 Black residential areas, and these affect half a million people. The only reason for this is a serious lack of funds.

The financial burden is becoming heavier and it has not been made any lighter by the devolution of the following additional health functions from the central Government to the provincial government, which entailed the take-over of 7 300 personnel members. The functions include, inter alia, eight hospitals for chronically mentally ill patients, five hospitals for infectious diseases, nine contracted private hospitals, regional laboratory services, school health services to Black scholars, certain community health clinics, part-time district surgeons and nutrition services.

We shall have to give serious consideration during the current year to our hospital fees. Services which have until now been taken for granted by the public, may possibly have to be curtailed and scaled down. At the end of the day we shall be forced to make certain choices, such as whether the high technological requirements of a new Groote Schuur Hospital ought to enjoy higher priority than community health centres for Blacks, for example, or the replacement of old, worn-out ambulances which are uneconomical to keep in service.

With regard to roads and traffic administration, my concern is that with a growing economy and a tremendous increase in the use of inter-city and inter-state buses and minibus taxis, as well as the use of heavier and larger lorries and trucks instead of train transport, an intolerable burden is being placed on the four provinces with regard to the construction and maintenance of roads. The Cape road network consists of a record 17 700 km of tarred and 52 000 km of untarred trunk, main and divisional roads plus 84 000 km of untarred minor roads, a total of 153 700 km of road. In order to save our irreplaceable road infrastructure, we are spending virtually all our money on maintenance and we can scarcely discharge our important responsibility in respect of an adequate new road construction programme.

Likewise, an increasing number of appeals are being made for better roads in and around Black and Coloured residential areas. New political pressure groups are developing with regard to the provision of roads, and never before has there been a time when we were in more urgent need of funds for road construction, than now. I mention this because we are at present in an hour of crisis. I want to say that if we were to allow ourselves to slip back even further so that we were unable to attend to the maintenance of the roads, let alone the construction of new roads and the reconstruction of existing roads, it would be a sad day because then we would be sacrificing important assets and allowing them to disintegrate permanently. We would never be able to make up the backlog.

†In regard to libraries, despite the fact that the Cape Province has a network of a record 460 libraries issuing 27 million items of library material annually and despite the fact that the average figure of 22,5 books read by every library member in the Cape Province is the highest in the country, I am perturbed about the fact that there are still 183 communities which do not have easy or ready access to a library facility. There is an urgent need to extend services to these underdeveloped communities. It is disheartening that we have money to provide financial assistance to erect at the most two or three libraries during the ensuing year. We shall urgently have to investigate the use of temporary facilities initially in order to give us a chance to fight the rising costs of library material as a result of the declining value of the rand.

*I shall now refer to museums. Although we provide a wonderful museum service, our appropriation for current costs has remained reasonably static over the past two years. We shall have quite a battle in the year that lies ahead to render financial support to new museums. There are 43 museums ready to be incorporated into the provincial museum service, but for which the future appears bleak for them unless finance can be obtained elsewhere. A number of museums have already had to resort to closing their doors on certain days of the week. This is a drastic step.

Our nature and environmental conservation officers are among the most dedicated personnel in the provincial service and they work wonders with a minimum of money. It nevertheless troubles me that of the 70 veld types in the Cape, only six are adequately protected, 54 are partially protected and 10 veld types are not protected at all. In the same way a shortage of law enforcement officers has given rise to an increase in the theft of game, serious damage to marine life and illegal trade. The Cape is at present in the unfortunate position that even if it were to receive an environmental education centre as a gift, the province would simply not have the finance at its disposal to appoint sufficient personnel for such a centre.

As far as community services are concerned, the good news is that we have succeeded in establishing a record number of 96 Black local authorities during the past two to three years. This is a phenomenal step forwards after the large-scale collapse of Black local authorities after the unrest which took place a few years ago.

The bad news is that our province’s requirements in respect of housing and infrastructure in Black townships amounts to R325 million for the new financial year, whilst we shall apparently have only R49 million available and uncompleted contracts to hand at present amount to some R96 million. The problem is that 80% of the Black urban population cannot afford development without heavy subsidisation. Our greatest challenge in 1989-90 will be to avoid being faced with claims for damages and legal costs as a result of cancelled contracts.

With regard to the 1 305 development projects which are awaiting approval, the administration will have to devise a scientific method for the determination of priorities in order to evaluate the most urgent projects on merit. We shall have to urgently effect the closest co-ordination with regional services councils and mobilise private initiative and capital as far as possible for development projects, even if only a small portion of the total requirements can be satisfied by the private sector with its built-in profit motive.

I have dwelt very briefly on the province’s grave lack of funds with reference to the search for many answers to the formulated questions which hon members posed yesterday. The fact that the activities of the CPA are being severely restricted by the limited availability particularly of funds and staff, does not mean that we shall be in sackcloth and ashes. We must do justice, to the best of our ability with the very limited finances at our disposal, to the extremely vital needs of the Cape. We shall leave no stone unturned in performing our task as efficiently as possible by way of a redefinition of priorities, privatisation, the determination of standards and rationalisation of financing projects and the adjustment of functions.

We must understand, however, that the given situation with regard to the availability of money is very serious and cannot be rectified by way of the aforementioned measures. We shall have to choose between either a drastic reduction in services or further in-depth discussions with the central Government with regard to our serious shortage of financing and the political social consequences thereof. We shall have to hold urgent discussions with regard to any money which may possibly become available.

I have no doubt that the Government will help the Cape if it is at all able to do so. However, we cannot draw blood from a stone. However, as the responsible Administrator, it is my task to lay the problems honestly and openly on the table and to ask hon members to intercede for the province wherever they can.

The performance of our functions affects John Citizen. The days of plenty are long gone. Our task now is to satisfy the inhabitants of our province with limited funds. I ask for everyone’s help in this regard and for their understanding of the very invidious position in which the Cape is having to discharge considerably more numerous and politically extremely delicate additional responsibilities under a smaller appropriation in which it has not been possible to make provision for inflation. A smaller budget means fewer projects and less work, and that is not good for our province and for the welfare of our people.

Mr Chairman, I should like to dwell on one or two aspects with regard to certain matters that were mentioned here. I should particularly like to dwell on a few aspects that were mentioned by the hon member for Losberg. I just want to place them in perspective and perhaps also to make one or two minor corrections. The hon member referred to what I shall call my involvement in the removal of an apartheid signboard in Mossel Bay. I want to begin by saying that the apartheid signs were erected by the municipality itself in terms of the powers it possessed at the time of the function. I acted as chairman of the national Dias festival committee. Festivities of a national character were at issue. The festivities had been approved by the Cabinet as a matter of national interest. It was an open festival which was accessible to everyone.

Not only was it a national festival; it was a festival with strong international involvement. A large number of foreign visitors were present at the festival. Included in their number was the president of the National Commission of Portugal, who is responsible for the commemoration of their national nautical and exploratory achievements. He was appointed directly by the Prime Minister of that country and had to report directly to him.

Hon members must bear in mind that none other than the wife of the State President of Portugal launched the caravel which the Cape and Portugal had had built on contract. This alone is an indication of the strong involvement of two countries. I want to take this further and say that there has apparently not been an occasion in many years on which so much goodwill was created as was created during this festival by the Dias festival committee with regard to international ties, which resulted in certain important state visits.

At midnight on 2/3 February my attention was drawn to an apartheid signboard on the beach where Dias, in the person of captain De Sousa, and his “crew” were to arrive at the height of the festivities on the historic day of 3 February. The signboard was situated virtually on that very spot. It was situated where approximately 100 000 people were to gather. It was directly in line not only with South African television cameras which were erected that night, but also with foreign television cameras. Both the local and foreign media were present.

The question is quite simply how one can celebrate a festival of this nature in the shadow of apartheid signboards. [Interjections.] One can just imagine the situation into which this event of international importance would have been plunged.

Apart from that there was the strong involvement of the 600 000 Portuguese people of South Africa. I did not have the slightest doubt, with regard to the festival, that we …

How many of our people were there?

There were many people from all the population groups. I did not have the slightest doubt that we should afford the festival at which South Africa had the finest representation, at which dignitaries of various countries were present, at which ambassadors and foreign visitors were present and in which more than 100 000 people were involved, the dignity which it deserved. Between twelve o’clock and one o’clock on that particular night I telephoned the mayor and requested him kindly to remove the board in order to prevent any international incidents. [Interjections.]

Order! I am prepared to allow interjections, but not to allow the hon the Administrator to be shouted down. The hon the Administrator may proceed.

I did not request him to remove the board permanently or to replace it; that was not at issue. All that was at issue at that moment, was that a festival had to take place without apartheid signboards, and I take full responsibility for my request to the mayor. The mayor did so, and should I ever be placed in a similar position again, I would not have the slightest hesitation in taking precisely the same action again.

I said yesterday that I did not have the faintest idea whether the boards had ever been replaced, nor is it relevant. [Interjections.]

Mr Chairman, may I ask the hon the Administrator, if he is aware that the apartheid signs were replaced by the municipality of Mossel Bay, whether he is prepared to ask them to remove them once again?

We implement the laws that are passed by this Parliament in which all these hon members are involved. [Interjections.]

Mr Chairman, on a point of order: We are not responsible for that law.

Order! That is not a point of order. The hon member for Haarlem must resume his seat. The hon the Administrator may proceed.

We shall comply with the provisions of the law. We have no choice in that regard. We are aware of certain trends and we are attempting to investigate the circumstances of certain communities.

Mr Chairman, may I ask the hon the Administrator a question?

No, Sir, I am not prepared to answer any more questions.

In the remaining two or three minutes I wish to speak about a further statement which the hon member for Losberg made in which he referred to bridging funds and spoke about a woolly explanation. I wish to repeat what I said yesterday, namely that theoretically speaking, it is not only a loan, but also an interest-free loan. In practice we are doing our best to see whether we can recoup any part of the loan. It virtually always happens, however, that we have to write it off and it is actually nothing but a donation. However, this is justified.

The hon member also said that every community should accept responsibility for its own health care. These bridging facilities are being made available for the operation of essential services. There are, for example, large numbers of people who are living under inhuman conditions, literally in the water. It is our task to remove that water. If there is no sewerage, it is our task to install sewerage in the interests of general health and of the lives that are at stake. If there is no water, or if there is only one tap for 50 to 60 people, then it is our task to provide services on a humane basis. In all honesty, if a choice is to be made between writing off money in order to save people’s lives and to prevent unhygienic conditions, or not doing so, then we have no choice.

The hon member was concerned about the fact that only an alleged 2,76% of the budget was to be spent on capital works during the coming year, as opposed to the provision for social services and the percentage of staff that had been employed. I should just like to say that the 2,76% in respect of capital works to which the hon member referred, is not the only amount that is to be spent on capital works. There are also quite a number of capital works that do not appear in the budget. Quite a large amount of funds is to come from the National Housing Fund, viz R49 million. There is also money from the Local Authorities Loans Fund, as well as financing by the private sector.

The hon member referred to the jump in the provision for social pensions from R125 million to R190 million. I just want to draw his attention to the fact that this did not take place in one year, but over two years. The reason for this is the fact that the pensions of Black pensioners were increased by R60 in May 1988 and that they were increased by a further R33 as from 1 January this year.

Apart from that, we had to process 23 000 outstanding applications for pensions, and the budgeted amount of R190 million for the 1989-90 financial year therefore makes provision for pension payments for a full year at the increased rate to the list of pension applicants which is as up to date as humanly possible. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I am grateful for the privilege of speaking immediately after the hon the Administrator. I must, however, also say that now that the hon the Administrator has finished speaking, I am really “between the devil and the WC”. [Interjections.]

The hon the Administrator and hon members talked about roads, but I do not want to talk about roads today. I should, however, like to mention a certain matter. Last year on 23 May I spoke about minor roads in my constituency when we were discussing Vote No 4. A miracle occurred. I do not want to talk about roads today, but I merely want to mention in passing … [Interjections.] The hon member wants to know what the miracle was. As the roads in my constituency were eroded, and since not much maintenance work was done on them, deep ditches eventually formed across the roads. The hon the Minister of Local Government and Housing—who previously also held the portfolio of Agriculture—always complained to me, saying he could do nothing in my constituency because there were too many donkeys. What happened then? The donkeys sought shelter in the ditches. Recently we had a bit of rain and the Divisional Council of Namaqualand graded the road while it was still wet. All the donkeys were covered over, with the result that I am now rid of the donkeys, and I want to thank the hon the Administrator for this. [Interjections.]

In this debate I should like to talk about Item 1: General Provincial Services, about administration at local government level and, in particular, about deregulation. I believe that regulations are actually a problem. The provincial ordinances provide, by means of regulations, for local authorities to perform certain functions in certain areas under their jurisdiction. Broadly speaking this also includes the function in respect of the requirements for the issuing of business licences.

In Schedule 1 of the Consolidated Cape Provincial Ordinance, No 17 of 1981, it is defined very clearly and comprehensively in item 32 (a), (b) and (c) that … [Interjections.]

Order! The hon member may proceed.

One has cases of local authorities sometimes interpreting or implementing the regulations in different ways. Even the Cape Provincial Administration is responsible for functions of a general nature in its area of jurisdiction. With this in mind I should today like to place the emphasis on the potential small businessman. He is one who still has to find his feet in the world of big business and who, from the outset, becomes entangled in the requirements laid down by regulations.

On behalf of the Coloured community which also fall into this category, I should today like to make an earnest plea to our hon Administrator for a serious and urgent investigation to be undertaken into ways in which deregulation or the relaxation of some regulations can take place. The fact that there is greater participation leads to a greater accummulative and positive effect which could quite simply result in a lower level of unemployment and to the greater promotion of our national economy. Economic progress is of vital importance to the reform process. We are all very aware of this. However, most of these regulations were applicable in affluent times. With a poor economy, a high inflation rate, sanctions, boycotts, … [Interjections.]

Order! Hon members have a habit of conversing on the floor of the House. This cannot be permitted.

In the midst of such a high inflation rate and sanctions and boycotts, I nevertheless think for the sake of the small business man, whether he be a hawker, a tailor or whatever, we should have another look at these regulations which have perhaps become obsolete. One deals with the times when a particular wave breaks and one perseveres until things have settled down. A new wave is breaking and we cannot and will not always be riding the crest of the wave. We must not miss the tide though.

I should like to make a statement which must not be misinterpreted. It is true that most of us grew up in the rural areas, although at times there was not even purified drinking water available, but we most certainly went to school and university. Many of us are today highly distinguished people in our country. However, when we grew up in the rural areas it was in a deregulated environment; there were no regulations.

Deregulation of some of our local authority regulations must be encouraged. These regulations cripple the future of the small business man. The central Government has deregulated. Anyone can sell figs on street, but local authorities with their bunches of regulations prohibit the poor hawker from meeting the immediate needs of his community. This is a community which sometimes has to walk or drive three kilometres to the nearest town to do its shopping. There are goods the hawker may sell in terms of the ordinances, but the regulations prescribe how many shelves he must have in his mobile unit, how high these must be from the floor and the amount of space needed to move around in. There must be a toilet available for his clients at a specified distance from his vehicle, there must be signs posted etc. These are all unnecessary trifles.

In days gone by the hawker outspanned or stopped wherever there was a suitable place and everyone went to buy there. There was no talk of toilets. Everyone was satisfied and everyone survived. Our country’s economy thrived and everyone was happy. Now we are saddled with a bunch of antiquated regulations, a poor economy, tremendous foreign debt and, to crown it all, pressure from overseas as well.

I myself know of a person who wanted to take out a hawkers’ licence, something I mentioned earlier. However, the poor man eventually threw in the towel because he could simply not comply with such a mass of regulations, some of which had no bearing whatsoever on hawkers. Again it is my people who must suffer as a result, people who have to walk those three kilometres for provisions.

This hawker could, for example, have become a very successful businessman. Who knows? He might have been a person whose success could have contributed to our country’s economy, but his outlook, ambition and ability to do so were shattered by a simple regulation. And sometimes double standards are applied when implementing these regulations. If the person does get a hawker’s licence, the inspector frequently comes to fine him for the slightest transgression. What is so ironical is that this also happens in places where NP town councils are in control.

Our country’s economy can no longer afford this, particularly when it comes to the good relations all of us are so keen to achieve with reform. Nobody may live in an industrial area, but if a Coloured man wants to start a small upholstery factory there, irrespective of how many unemployed people he may be able to employ, he is again left reeling by the regulations imposed upon him. For example, the ceilings and walls have to be of a certain height. There must be a certain amount of ventilation. Noise must be subdued; why, I do not know, because nobody may live in an industrial area. Floors must be made of a certain material. Why all these regulations? By deregulating one gives a person capital. One gives him a cash-flow to continue with his work.

It would appear to me that some of our local authorities do not always realise the scope and possibilities for our country’s economy inherent in this. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, on hearing the hon the Administrator a few minutes ago, I could hardly believe my ears. I know the hon gentleman and I know him to be a man of some intelligence and I could hardly believe what I heard being said here today. In effect, what he was saying to this House and to the country is that it is in order and that it is all right to insult people of colour as long as the world is not looking. [Interjections.] If one cuts out all the bits and pieces, that is in essence what the hon the Administrator was saying. Because there were visitors from overseas and because international television was there, for all those reasons one could not have an apartheid board because it is clearly an insulting thing to have on a beach and one had to have it removed.

The hon the Administrator acknowledged all the negatives in explaining why that board needed to be removed. He acknowledged all or many of the negatives of those boards but then attempted to hide behind the law of the country for his actions at that time and his subsequent inaction. He pleaded that the province was simply in a position of needing to carry out the law. The hon the Administrator knows full well that the province demarcates beaches and that it is within his power to demarcate what beaches are going to be for which races and which beaches will not be demarcated and therefore be open beaches. He is therefore not entitled simply to hide behind the law.

Furthermore, if the law is something which prevents him even from taking a further interest—he said he did not know what had happened in Mossel Bay since that fateful day—if that is the law, did he in fact incite the mayor of Mossel Bay to break the law by removing the board?. If the law precludes him from opening that beach, what law gave him permission to open that beach for one day, or should we attempt to have Dias festivals all along our coast for 365 days of each year?

I believe that the hon the Administrator in this regard should hang his head in shame.

Do you want me to leave the boards up?

I want you to take all the boards away.

The Government and the province simply lack the political courage to do the decent thing and that is to scrap all beach apartheid.

The hon the Administrator—I appreciate his difficulties in this regard—talked of the economic problems of the province, namely the fact of the extremely restricted budgets that they are having to operate under. I believe that in times of economic stringency we must be very careful that it is not simply the least powerful people in our society who suffer most and that the principle of user-charging, which has become popular, does not become an excuse for not fulfilling the obligations of Government at any level, whether that be central, provincial or local government level. Economic stringency is not sufficient reason for making that happen; in other words, that the State reneges on its obligations, particularly to the least powerful and poorer sectors of the community.

I wish to refer to two aspects that are under the control of the province. The first is the question of pensions for black people. The plight of pensioners of all races in South Africa is a serious and often desperate one. Surviving in the face of spiralling food prices, increased rentals and rocketing medical costs is a battle that has to be fought from day to day.

However, it is even worse for Black pensioners. They receive the smallest pensions, they have the most stringent means test and they face frequent administrative delays and inefficiencies. Some pensioners wait months or even years before they receive the money to which they are entitled. I am pleased to hear from the hon the Administrator that there have been substantial improvements in this respect in the recent past. However, it certainly was the pattern over many years before the province took over, and has been since.

Other pensioners queue from early morning to ensure that they get their pension on pay-out day, and even then some have to return the next day because the pay-out office closes before all pensions have been paid.

Finally, it is estimated that only about one half of all the Black people eligible to apply for a pension actually receive one.

To be specific, let me first of all say—and I wish to compliment the hon the Administrator and his team on this—that from 1 April this year pensions for Black people will for the first time be paid on a monthly basis. However, I am concerned—I hope this will be looked at—that they know that they still have to collect their pensions in April, because the last pay-out took place in March. In the normal cycle they would only have been paid again in May. However, they are due to be paid in April, and I hope serious efforts are being made to ensure that they know what the situation is.

I would also like to give credit for the fact that a system has been introduced over the past two years so that the pensions can be paid directly into savings accounts, as applies to other races. I think both these steps are major steps forward.

I would also like to talk about the size of pensions. Black pensions are now a maximum of R150 per month as against White pensions of R261 per month. I do not accept that any difference is justified. In particular, I do not accept that there is anything related to people’s cost of living that would ever justify this discrepancy in the pensions, even at this stage. The progress being made in closing the gap, not in terms of rands but in terms of proportions, is far too slow. We have to work on a far shorter timespan to close the gap.

My next point is the means test. There is the question of whether or not it has been changed since 1 January. I have not seen any public announcement to that effect, although I have heard that the means test—this is the highest level of means before one loses any right to a pension—may have been increased from R83 per month to R116 per month. I do not know if that is correct or not.

However, it is illogical, because if, prior to January, a Black pensioner had an income of more than R83 per month from his own sources, such as a private pension or an income from savings, he lost all his rights to a social old age pension, which at that stage was R117 per month. If the figure has changed, it may now be R116 compared with R150, or it may still be R83 as compared with R150. If he has made some provision for himself he can end up getting nothing from the State. It is unjust. A person who has saved for his old age ends up R34 per month worse off than someone who has not saved at all. So it actually pays him to get rid of the money before he gets close to retirement age to make sure that he gets a bigger pension. This is a total illogicality and an injustice. In fact, I believe it is a positive incentive to poorer people not to make provision for their own retirement.

I have referred to the administrative delays and inefficiencies. I also hope the long queues on pay-out days are being addressed. On the question of many being eligible but not being paid I was given information by the hon the Minister at the time, in 1987, who estimated that there were over 600 000 Black people in South Africa over the age of 65, but that only 289 000 were receiving pensions. Obviously some will fall out with the means test, but I am quite sure we will accept that there must be hundreds of thousands who are eligible and who are not getting their pensions. I urge the administration in the Cape to undertake a campaign to inform people of their rights to social old age pensions.

Despite some improvements, the payment of pensions to Black persons, the whole system, and the amounts involved remain totally unsatisfactory. I call on the hon the Administrator to ensure that urgent action is taken.

Finally, I wish to refer briefly to transport to hospitals. People needing regular medical checkups or medication have been provided free transport, eg from Gardens to Groote Schuur Hospital. I believe that from 1 July no more transport at all will be provided and patients must hire the CPLA service. I would like to know if this is correct. It is certainly information that is being conveyed to patients. Many people who need wheelchairs or stretchers to get to hospital are going to have to pay for their own transport. I believe this is unacceptable. We cannot off-load our financial problems onto people who are crippled or bedridden. [Time expired.]

Business suspended at 12h45 and resumed at 14h15.

Afternoon Sitting

Mr Chairman, this afternoon we once again saw what the hon the Administrator meant when he said his people ate out. I happened to be in town and I saw a number of the hon MECs “eating out” at one of the stalls along the road. [Interjections.]

The hon member for Losberg made certain short-sighted statements in this Committee this afternoon, particularly in connection with Namibia. We just want to warn him that they must stop gambling with the lives and the future of not only the Namibians, but also of the children of South Africa. [Interjections.]

†The LP of South Africa condemns the violation of Resolution 435 over the past weekend. The realisation of a free and independent Namibia, we believe, is too important for too many people to be derailed by misdirected or ill-disposed people. We call on all parties involved not to do anything that will prevent the implementation of Resolution 435.

We extend our sincere sympathy to the families of those killed, be they Swapo or Swapol.

*I now come to the debate we are involved in in this Committee. Earlier today we listened to the hon the Administrator expanding on the Mossel Bay issue. We now face a dilemma. We note that when there is an SABC-TV camera in the vicinity, the signboards disappear. We have now thought of making plans to see whether we cannot install a camera at each of these beaches. In that way we can ensure that all those signboards disappear.

I want to remind the hon the Administrator that in reply to a question last year, he said:

He went on to say that nurses’ homes in the rural areas in particular were at present being underutilised, but that an investigation had been undertaken with a view to better utilisation of the facilities by all population groups.

†In this Chamber, in reply to the issues raised by my hon colleague Mr Lockey, in respect of the whole question of the accommodation of nurses, the hon the MEC in charge, Mr A van Wyk, said last year that as regards the question of nurses’ homes he did not have such a clear answer for hon members at that stage. It is now a year later, and we wish to ask again this afternoon what the answer is.

*We want the hon MEC concerned to state exactly what the policy is.

†My information is that the issue of accommodation for nurses in Vryburg, which was raised specifically by Mr Lockey, has not been addressed satisfactorily, at least not as far as the public is concerned. We want to know what the situation is.

Similarly I wish to suggest that the situation at the hospital at Kimberley is even worse. Let me remind this Committee that at this hospital in Kimberley, which is a training hospital for nursing personnel, we find that both White and non-White nurses are being trained, but White trainee nurses live in the nurses’ home on the premises of the hospital, while Coloured and Black trainee nurses have to board with the local communities in townships up to 15 km from the hospital. These trainee nurses are drawn from all over the Northern Cape area, and it is a crying shame that they should be discriminated against in this way. It is definitely a form of discrimination, and the sooner it is corrected, the better.

What makes matters worse is that I believe that within the immediate vicinity of this big hospital there are numerous blocks of flats which can be utilised to house these nurses. At present, if nurses try to move into these flats, and apply as individuals to do so, they are prevented from doing so by the constraints of the Group Areas Act. If, however, the Cape Provincial Administration were to obtain such premises, we would be looking at a different ball game altogether. My appeal to the hon the Administrator and to the hon the MEC involved is to see to it that this happens as soon as possible.

Secondly, the reduction in the number of trains which service the Northern Cape, a result of the policy of the SATS to curtail certain uneconomic services, has led to another serious situation at the Kimberley Hospital where at times one finds more than 100 people sleeping on benches in the hospital corridors. These are people who have been referred to that hospital for specialised clinics which take place on certain days. Because of the limited number of train services from the Northern Cape platteland we find that people who have appointments on a Wednesday already arrive at the hospital on the Monday and only leave on the Friday. It is left to the hospital authorities to feed these people as well as to provide blankets at night. To be honest, I must say that in spite of all these difficulties the local hospital authorities go out of their way to address this problem.

The provincial authorities at one time instructed the hospital authorities to cut the provision of food to these people as a cost saving matter. However, since then this decision has been reversed, I must say for the better. The overriding problem, however, still exists, and I wish to appeal to the hon the Administrator to appoint a committee to investigate how this matter can be addressed. Let us not forget that the platteland people have to travel to the larger towns if they wish to receive specialised medical treatment.

*In lighter vein I want to ask what would happen if an epidemic were to break out. One can imagine what would happen. Blankets are given to these people. That does not mean that these blankets are washed before they are used again in the wards.

Fourthly, the small village of Ritchie just outside Kimberley, is rather singular. It is singular due to the fact that it has a clinic for five days of the week which is manned by nurses in the employ of the CPA. During the weekends those nurses are not on duty and the ambulance stationed there cannot be used because that is only possible on instruction from the nurses. When the nurses are not there, that ambulance is stationary for the whole weekend; it does not matter. A plan will have to be made.

†May I say that I wish to express my satisfaction at the several million rand that have been provided to upgrade the Laing Lake pleasure resort near Kimberley. However, as much as we appreciate this funding we believe that instead of developing Laing Lake, the adjacent White resort of Riverton and a Black pleasure resort, much unnecessary duplication could be eliminated if a single resort for all people were developed.

*I want to ask with all due respect, if I am good enough to sit with the hon the Administrator in this Committee, am I not good enough to share a pleasure resort with him? Let us stop wasting money unnecessarily by creating separate facilities. I fully understand the whole issue of perceptions and people’s reservations, but in this country we should be big-hearted enough to overcome these things. We shall not manage that if we avoid realities. Let us create one facility.

†While on the question of separate amenities let me express my disgust at a recent incident in Kimberley. I must say that Kimberley was in many respects the forerunner of racial change in South Africa but, sadly, they seem to be lacking in this particular case. It was a case where swimmers were barred from making use of the Karen Muir swimming pool because of the colour of their skin. In the past I have attended many official functions at this pool and I wish to state in this Chamber today that I will not accept any invitation to attend a municipal function at this pool in future until it has been opened to all. I will not be used as window dressing. In this regard I also wish to call on my colleague from Kimberley, Mr Nyati, a member of the executive committee, to do the same because I have seen him at these functions in the past. As a Black man I am sure he shares the view that the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act must be scrapped. I would be very surprised if this was not so.

Lastly, the hon member for Kimberley North dealt earlier today in this Chamber with the development of the Black area of Galeshewe in Kimberley. While I share his sentiments I am concerned that the expansion of the Black area will be fraught with the same sort of soil problems which we have had in the Coloured area of Roodepan. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I listened to the speech of the hon member for Diamant, but I do not want to react to it. I think the hon MEC will provide clear answers and react to it properly. Nevertheless, I want to take this opportunity to associate myself with the hon member for Diamant’s expression of commiseration with the men who died in South West, as well as with his statement regarding Resolution 435.

I also want to take this opportunity to congratulate the hon the Administrator and his MECs and also to thank them for the manner in which they have administered the Cape during the past year, as well as for the wonderful, clear and responsible budget which we are discussing here at the moment. This budget bears witness to loyalty, conscientiousness and also competence. We want to thank the hon the Administrator and the MECs as well as the directors and all the heads of departments for this excellent work which they are doing in the Cape. We are very grateful to them and we are also proud that there are men of their calibre at the helm of this province.

If one takes into account the fact that the Cape spans a surface area of 721 000 square kilometres, which constitutes 60% of the surface area of the Republic of South Africa, and if one takes into account the fact that the other three provinces together span an area of 481 000 square kilometres, only then does one really realise what a large task it is to administer a province such as this.

Then there are also certain things about which one is concerned, especially with regard to the road network in the Cape. If one bears in mind that the road network in the Cape is valued at R12 billion and one notes that less money has been granted in the budget for the road network and for the maintenance of roads in the Cape, one is inclined to be concerned. However, I am also very glad to hear that the hon the Administrator is also concerned about this and that he and the Executive Committee will make every effort to ensure that the priorities with regard to roads are placed higher up on the priority list. We want to thank them for that.

Furthermore, I would like to refer to the sights of the Cape in the areas outside the metropolitan and more densely populated areas. In the remote rural areas in particular, there are sights which are actually very rare and to which one would like to attract visitors and tourists from all over the world to come to look at them. For example, there are the Dinosaur tracks in the district of Maclear, which are a heritage dating back more than 2 000 million years and which have now been fully unearthed and are being placed at the disposal of society and of humanity.

In this regard I want to appeal to the provincial authorities to help the local bodies and organisations which have to develop these sights, in order to preserve them for posterity and to bring them within reach of the tourist by at least proclaiming the roads and approaches to those sights divisional roads and then maintaining them on a subsidy basis. This must not all be left to the owner of the land or to the local body which probably is short of money and also does not have the knowledge and expertise to protect these sights.

Mr Chairman, we also have the largest panel of Bushman drawings in the region of Elliot and Barkly East, for example, which is unique to South Africa and which already attracts thousands of tourists not only from South Africa, but from all over the world. The access road to that tourist attraction is maintained by the owner of that farm because it is regarded as a minor road. The CPA must look into these shortcomings and protect these attractions so that they can be preserved for posterity, and at least proclaim the roads as divisional roads.

As we have now come to the end of the era of divisional councils, I want to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the divisional councils of the Cape. The divisional councils of the Cape have been in existence for 134 years. During these 134 years, the divisional councils of the Cape have provided an excellent and outstanding service to this province. We want to thank the councillors of all the divisional councils and their administrative officials and workers for this. Our thanks go to them for having provided an excellent service to the Cape and for helping to provide the Cape with a road network which is actually phenomenal if one considers the surface area of the Cape and the total distance which is covered by the road network.

Since we are now entering a new dispensation, I just want to express the hope that regional services councils will also be able to maintain the same standard with regard to the road network, especially in the rural areas, as the divisional councils were able to maintain, and that they will be able to provide roads of the same standard for the inhabitants of rural areas as the divisional councils have done until now. With this I pay tribute to the divisional councils and their personnel in the Cape. We say thank you very much to them for everything which they have done in this province.

With these few words I support the adoption of this wonderful and clear budget which is before the Committee.

Mr Chairman, I want to come back to where I left off with regard to the complex situation which we have reached in our country. As far as the provincial level is concerned, I want to dwell on the matter of discrimination based on colour which some of the speakers mentioned here today. It was pointed out, as the hon the Administrator and members of the executive mentioned yesterday, that the hon the Administrator was not responsible because he only administers laws which are passed by Parliament. The schedule here mentions the Public Resorts Ordinance, No 20 of 1971, and the Reservation of Separate Amenities by Local Authorities Ordinance, No 20 of 1955.

I spoke to a member of the executive, Mr Schoeman who told me that the joint committee could get rid of this. I am not sure whether that information given to me was correct. If what the MEC says is true, however I feel, like all my hon colleagues here, that we should get rid of it. I suggest that this ordinance that was passed long before we came here and long before it was anticipated that people of colour could sit here in this august Chamber—this Public Resorts Ordinance, No 20 of 1971—should be scrapped forthwith. I am not against public resorts but against its being stated that public resorts should practise racial discrimination. We must have public resorts but if they are segregated on a racial, religious, ethnic or cultural basis then the part of the ordinance stipulating that should be scrapped forthwith and replaced by the stipulation that they should be open to all.

As regards the Reservation of Separate Amenities by Local Authorities Ordinance, No 20 of 1955, I would again suggest that any separation on the basis of colour, race, religion, culture, ethnicity, group identity or whatever one may call it—in this country we seem to come up with new political terms every week—should also be abolished forthwith. Not to be misunderstood let me say again that I am not calling for the scrapping of amenities but of those provisions which have any racial connotation.

I see the Director of Local Government has a lot of functions in terms of the Declaration of Local Government Areas Ordinance, No 18 of 1986. There something is also worrying us. It seems that the 1983 Constitution Act had a flaw in it as regards what a local authority is. I am not a legal man but it is my humble submission that Parliament was by-passed and that it was brought in as an ordinance so that the Administrator has the power to declare the area where I come from, Rylands Estate, a local authority area, Cravenby Estate a local authority area and most of the smaller areas as Indian, Coloured, White or Black local authorities with the intention of making them own affairs local authorities. My question is whether they did this because they knew that they would not have got it through two Houses of Parliament, viz the House of Representatives and the House of Delegates and would have had to push it through the President’s Council. Perhaps they did not want people to think that they were going to use the President’s Council again to pass this law and so made it an ordinance of 1986. I cannot understand why they used the provincial executive. Perhaps the Administrator could explain to us why the Declaration of Local Government Areas Ordinance, No 18 of 1986, was an ordinance and not any Act of Parliament.

Furthermore, we find that the Director of Local Government is also charged with the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act, No 49 of 1953. Thereafter there was the Reservation of Separate Amenities by Local Authorities Ordinance, No 20 of 1955. Then there is also the Act of Parliament, No 49 of 1953 on which I need not address hon members because we all know it all too well.

There is a directive, I think from the Commissioner of Police, that one only needs to take the names of persons but not prosecute them. How can one explain that to the people any longer? In other words if all hon members who are sitting on this side of the Committee go to Melkbosstrand or to the Strand, their names will be taken down but they will not be arrested. [Interjections.] The names of hon members sitting on that side will not be taken however. The chairman of the joint committee should come along to the Strand. His name will not be taken yet our names have to be taken. You know, Mr Chairman, it is this type of thing that is causing conflict in our country. We need to get together to enable us to reason together.

This morning one of my colleagues—and I agree with him—condemned what is taking place in South West Africa. We condemn it that Swapo broke Resolution 435 but we are the last people who will speak with the voice of moderation. One cannot expect the younger generation to accept this any longer. I want to state it very clearly. This has no theological backing. No religion can back this. No person in his right mind can back laws of this nature any longer. I am making this appeal. We are sitting here smiling at one another. We are sitting together as colleagues. Stop this nonsense of thinking that we can continue with this type of law in South Africa any longer. Anyone who says we can do it, is going to take this country into a wasteland; he is going to reduce this country to ashes.

Are we happy that more than 200 people died over the weekend? [Interjections.] Why do we start talking about separate amenities? Why are we afraid of one another. We have so many laws and here we find a mixed provincial executive. Did they become Black, Coloured or White? No, we are all South Africans. There sit Mr Nyati, Mr Samuels and Mr Adams and they have been doing that for the past two years. The colour of their skins did not change. Here we are together. I am an Indian and I will die an Indian. I am not ashamed of that. It does, however, not mean to say I am a lesser person than my friend the hon member for Parow. We have known one another for years. Our identities are God-given. Why should we have laws saying that I am an Indian? Why should there be laws stating that that person is a Xhosa or that person is a Jew?

I also see that the Director of Local Government has a lot of work to do. He also has to apply sections 18 and 21 of the Group Areas Act, No 36 of 1966, with regard to the issuing of permits. I was shocked to learn that one of the members of the executive was also refused a permit to live in a certain area. How can he, as a member of the provincial executive, defend himself if people ask him those questions? [Interjections.]

I also want to refer to the Promotion of Local Government Affairs Act, No 91 of 1983. The hon the Administrator knows that local government has become an area of conflict. Management committees have reached 21 years; they have come of age. However, they are still being treated like little children who are sucking milk. Through the Chair I want to say to the hon the Administrator that he knows it. There has been one delegation after the other. [Interjections.] Do not tell us that we have to take autonomy. [Interjections.]

Order! I have to point out to hon members that we cannot have two debates running at the same time. The hon member for Rylands may continue.

Mr Chairman, I want to appeal to the hon the Administrator. He knows that we have been pleading for the past 20 years. It is no use telling us that we need to be trained. We were not trained to become MPs. [Interjections.] The hon member for Swartkops, the Rev Hendrickse, did not receive training so as to become a Minister of the Cabinet, but he became one as a theologian. We did not have any parliamentary training. No hon member here had parliamentary training when he became an MP. However, we are doing our work under difficult circumstances. Why then do management committee members have to be trained to become councillors? I find it amusing.

This means that the office of a management committee member is higher than that of an MP. I should like to tell the hon the Administrator that it is high time that he and his executive take up this matter very seriously. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I do not want to follow directly on what the hon member for Rylands said. I shall return to it later when I shall also have something to say about public facilities. I feel compelled to join the hon member for Cape Town Gardens in reacting to what the hon Administrator said earlier this morning about the removal of the so-called apartheid signs during the Dias Festival at Mossel Bay.

I understand the dilemma in which the hon Administrator finds himself. He is not responsible for the Government’s double talk about the enforcement of the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act. He is even not responsible for the fact that this specific Act is still on the Statute Book, but what he said this morning revealed the political dishonesty of the ruling party in this respect, because what he said here implied the following. It does not matter whether there are apartheid signs on the beaches of Mossel Bay or not, as long as they are not visible to the overseas television cameras and as long as they can be hidden from them. Whether or not they are subsequently re-erected on the beaches is not relevant.

For the CP it is an unacceptable point of departure. If we can defend a practice in South Africa, we can do the same abroad. If we cannot defend a practice abroad, we do not have the moral basis for defending it in South Africa. As long as the NP continues to fall between two stools and as long as they want to present two realities—one to the outside world and one to the White electorate in South Africa—our country will be detested by the world and the intentions of the Afrikaner and the Whites man will be questioned by the other population groups in this country.

What can be expected from our country is honesty, so that people from abroad or of other population groups in South Africa at least know exactly where they stand.

In the latest annual report of the Provincial Administration of the Cape reference is made to the new provincial dispensation. In this report reference is also made to the functions which have been transferred to the Provincial Administrations. I quote from the report:

I find it an alarming tendency that functions of the State are being transferred on an increasing scale to institutions which can rightly be described as governing institutions, but which do not have a political leader who must answer to the electorate.

The Provincial Administration is under control of the hon Administrator and the members of the Executive Committee as governing institution. None of these persons were elected in a democratic manner. I want to state clearly that I do not have anything personal against the members of the Executive Committee and the hon Administrator who is sitting here. To me the issue is the principle. They did not receive a mandate from the people to govern this province. They were appointed and they do not represent an electorate who can make them lose their seats and reject them if they do not comply with the requirements.

It is a fact that the Provincial Administration falls under the jurisdiction of the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning, but in reality he does not accept responsibility for their actions. Every question asked in Parliament which refers to provincial matters and which is answered by the hon the Minister, is introduced by a phrase which reads more or less as follows:

In that way the hon Minister, who is an elected member, evades all responsibility for the question he replies to and places it squarely on the shoulders of the hon Administrator and the members of the Executive Committee—all people who cannot be held responsible by the public at the next election.

Furthermore, I want to ask who is being held responsible for what has been done in the Cape Provincial Administration during the past year. Not the hon the Minister who was elected by the electorate, even though it was only by a majority of 39 votes, but the hon Administrator and the members of the Executive Committee who are only sitting here today owing to the grace of the hon the State President.

I want to object earnestly to this weakening of democracy. The Government prides itself on moving in a direction which broadens democracy, but if I take this development into consideration, I cannot but come to the conclusion that …

Order! The noise level in the committee is too high. We must have a little more silence. The hon member for Brits may proceed.

I cannot but come to the conclusion that there is no question here of an extension of the democracy, but a shameless violation thereof. It seems increasingly as if the Government is trying to smother the voice of the people by means of Provincial Administrations, that have no political leaders who have to stand trial before the people during an election. I can prove this statement and I want to illustrate it with an example.

According to the Regional Services Council Act—I refer to section 31(b) of that Act—the Administrator has the right to take away from town councils and transfer to regional services councils any of the 22 functions which are mentioned in Schedule 2 of the principal Act. Some of these functions are of cardinal importance to town councils if they want to ensure an own community life for their people. I shall mention only a few to the hon members: Passenger transport services, ambulance services, civil defence, libraries, museums and recreational facilities.

In the Regional Services Councils Act the Administrator is empowered inter alia to remove the powers of a town council to make decisions regarding its own recreational facilities and to transfer them to a multiracial RSC. It is therefore possible that if the Administrator is not satisfied with a decision of the town council of Kraaifontein, Parow or Mossel Bay to reserve certain recreational facilities solely for their own people, he may transfer the power to make a final decision to the specific RSC, which is constituted along multiracial lines.

The Administrator thus has the power to obstruct the choice of the residents of a city or town and to transfer the rights they had to a multiracial body which does not represent the specific town or city and cannot be held responsible by the residents of that town. I want to repeat that. The powers which are concentrated in the nonelected, appointed members of the provincial administrations, are to say the least, a weakening of democracy. [Interjections.]

I wish that the hon Administrator of the Cape would tell us on this occasion whether he is considering the removal of the 22 functions which are mentioned in Schedule 2 of the Regional Services Councils Act, from the legally appointed town councils and their transferral to the regional services councils. We suspect that the Government has come to an agreement with the House of Representatives in this regard. I say this because the hon member Mr Lockey said the following on 28 March last year … [Interjections.] … in the House of Representatives, and I quote:

A bit further on he says:

In reply to this statement the hon the Deputy Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning said the following:

[Interjections.] The hon member for Bellville says it is correct.

It was not me; I did not speak.

Someone on this side said that it was correct. [Interjections.]

He continued:

What we therefore want to find out from the hon Administrator today is whether the Government has discussed the transfer of these 22 functions of town councils to regional services councils with him. Is he, as the hon Deputy Minister promised, planning to remove those functions from the town councils and transfer them to the regional services councils? The residents of the Cape would like a reply to this. [Interjections.]

I also want to refer to Vote 10, which deals with community services. The hon members can stop making such a noise. They can make a noise outside if they feel it is necessary. [Interjections.]

In the explanatory memorandum regarding the budget it is stated inter alia that an ad hoc grant of R63 670 000 was provided for beach facilities the previous year. I should like to have clarity as to whether these funds were used for the duplicating of facilities for the various population groups or whether it was used to meet the growing need for beach facilities in general. It is important for the CP to get a reply to this question. [Interjections.]

Order! The hon member for Haarlem must control himself. The hon member for Brits may continue.

We are accused of being racists. The hon members of the Government are participating gleefully. In the meantime the members of the governing party are enjoying the protection of that legislation on the beaches where they spend their holidays. They remind me of the old man who refused to let his old party down in the last days of the United Party. When a NP canvasser came to him and asked whether, now at the end of his party, he did not want to vote for the NP, he replied: “I shall always support the UP, but luckily all my children are right. They vote for the NP.”

That is precisely what is happening to the hon members of the NP. They shout and complain because the CP applies the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act. In the meantime they enjoy it if this Act is still applied in the Strand, Gordons Bay, Kleinmond and Hartenbos. Then they are only too glad that there is still such an Act in the Statute Book. However, the CP wants to know whether the R63 million which was granted as a non-recurrent amount for the development of beach facilities, was used to provide separate facilities on separate beaches. The reply to this affects the political integrity of the Government.

Vote 10 also mentions that more than R17 million is allocated this year as “aid to local authorities for the provision of beach and other facilities for the various population groups”. I assume that it is the intention that the White municipalities utilise their allocation for the creation of facilities at White beaches and that the Coloured local authorities utilise their allocations at Coloured beaches. [Interjections.] The only conclusion I can come to in this regard is that the budget of the CPA stabilises the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act. The budget proves that the CPA supports the principle of separate beach facilities—it even budgets for it. If this is not so, we must be told on this occasion.

At the same time we must be told why the town council for Boksburg is crucified when it decides that its portion of Boksburg lake—it is only a portion of the lake—shall be reserved for Whites while the CPA subsidises local authorities to create separate beach facilities. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I must appeal to our hon Whips not to give me a turn to speak after an hon member who gets lost to such an extent. The hon member spoke about democracy.

†However, today he very blatantly told hon members to shut up when they interjected. What type of democracy is that?

*I want to to tell the hon member that he should regard this opportunity as an historic occasion because I suspect he will never return to Parliament after the election in September. [Interjections.] If that hon member wants to say something, he must speak up.

†Mr Chairman, I would like to make an earnest appeal to the hon the Administrator this afternoon … [Interjections.]

*Did the hon member tell me to “shut up”, Mr Chairman?

Order! I did not hear it; the hon member may continue. [Interjections.]

I would like to make an earnest appeal today to the hon the Administrator of the Cape Province to take the ambulance services out of the hands of the Cape Town City Council and transfer them to the regional services council. The basis of my appeal is that the perception outside is that there is discrimination against people of colour. By this I do not only mean discrimination against patients and other sick people but also the staff of this section. I will give hon members an example.

The vacancy of chief officer was advertised not so long ago and a certain Mr Pillay from Port Elizabeth was among the applicants. I would like to tell hon members what Mr Pillay’s qualifications are: Matriculation with university exemption. He also completed a BA degree, majoring in Public Administration and Psychology. Furthermore, this gentleman recently passed his BA Honours degree in Public Administration. His professional qualifications include an ambulance medical assistant diploma. He also obtained an ambulance medical assistant registration certificate; he has a light vehicle rescue certificate and an ambulance medical assistant re-registration certificate. His CV is outstanding. He has attended courses in principles of management, leadership and supervision. He has also attended advanced personnel training and development courses and counselling and management seminars. He is also a member of the Institute of Personnel Management. He is a member of the South African Institute of Public Relations and his CV includes a long list of this applicant’s responsibilities. He even lectured at the University of the Eastern Cape. This man received a letter to say that his application was not successful. It also said that he should reapply if this post was advertised again.

I will tell hon members who was appointed in this applicant’s place. As acting chief officer they have appointed a man with a Std 8 certificate. [Interjections.] He has done a nine week course in basic ambulance training, as well as an ambulance management course and the ambulance medical assistant course. [Interjections.]

If hon members go through this CV of Mr Pillay—I will hand it to hon members—they will see that the next step for this man is to become the chief officer because presently he is the deputy. However, because of the colour of his skin he is not allowed this job in the Cape Town City Council. [Interjections.] This is what I am saying. I want to challenge the Cape Town City Council to prove these perceptions wrong. In fact, they must tell me what member of the management team in the ambulance service is a non-White. The council is so based on discrimination that a Black ambulance driver is not allowed to drive in Fish Hoek or in Sea Point, and they must prove me wrong.

These are the facts, and this is why we are making an urgent appeal that the money allocated to the Cape Town City Council to run the ambulance service should be transferred to the regional services council and that they should run the entire operation. Not only is there not enough staff, but of the four separate stations where ambulances are kept not one is in the Athlone area where the majority of the Brown people live. Of the eight satellite stations not one is in Bonteheuwel, while most of the so-called Brown people live in Athlone. In fact, we have been told that there is a population of well over 80 000 people in Bonteheuwel alone, but we do not even have a satellite ambulance service there. As far as we are concerned, this is blatant discrimination, because we are of the wrong colour. The period we have to wait for an ambulance to arrive in Bonteheuwel, averages around 20 minutes.

That is quick!

Let me just reply to that hon member who knows nothing about what happens in my constituency but who also wants to speak on their behalf. In Sea Point … [Interjections.] That hon member is not allowed to say anything; he must listen to me.

Speak up!

I shall speak up if that hon member wants me to, but he has an earphone. He should stick it in his ear and listen to me.

We saw what happened in Sea Point.

†There they have a satellite ambulance station. I have seen it myself. There was an accident, and within three minutes there was an ambulance on the scene. I have never seen that kind of service rendered in our community.

Our community will no longer bear this. We can no longer bear this. I have all the co-operation of the hon the Administrator and his MECs, and I want to thank them for that. I have had first class service from those gentlemen, but we want this type of service stopped which we are at present receiving from the local authority here in Cape Town. This local authority is so against apartheid and everything else, but practises it nevertheless.

I ask the hon the Administrator to request that a satellite ambulance station be provided in Bonteheuwel. I wish to appeal to him today that this be treated as a matter of priority. I am thankful for the reply I received yesterday that a second ambulance depot is being planned. I wish to ask, however, that it be handled as a matter of priority.

As I mentioned yesterday, the depot is no longer located centrally in the Cape. When that depot was built some years ago, it was central because there was no Mitchell’s Plain, no Manenberg or Heideveld, or Khayelitsha at the time. That is why it was central at that stage. Now that there are more areas further afield from Pinelands and Ndabeni, the present ambulance station is no longer centrally placed. I therefore ask the hon the Administrator and his staff to address that problem.

Mr Chairman, I apologise to the hon member for Bonteheuwel for not reacting to him. I think the MEC responsible for this matter will provide him with a meaningful reply.

I should like to associate myself with previous speakers who expressed sympathy with the victims in South West Africa-Namibia.

I should like to support the hon member for Bokkeveld’s request that the road from Worcester to the Huguenot Tunnel be built. The fact of the matter is that a section of this road is already under construction, but I want to lend my strong support to his request, viz that serious consideration be given to the rebuilding and resurfacing of the last section from the Molenaars River to the Huguenot Tunnel.

When looking at Vote 4: Roads and Traffic Administration, one notices a considerable decrease in the funds for 1989-90. In the first instance the total allocation of R414 576 000 has been reduced in the revised 1988-89 budget to R407 736 000 for 1989-90. When inflation is taken into consideration, this is a disturbing decrease in real terms.

I forgot something. I listened to the hon member for Brits who denounced the incompetence of the Administration of the Cape Province. What right or authority does the hon member have to do this when his party does not represent a single seat in the Cape Province? I also believe that they will have to get along without the Cape Province for the next 10 years. [Interjections.]

Secondly, the Treasury and the Department of Transport made ample contributions in 1988-89 in order to relieve the financial difficulties experienced by local authorities. In this regard mention must be made of the allocations which were made possible by the vigorous and tireless efforts of the hon the Administrator, members of the Executive Committee and officials of the Roads Branch. I should like to convey my sincere thanks and appreciation to the hon the Administrator and in particular to the hon MEC concerned, who is not here at the moment, and his senior staff for their cordial co-operation.

I mentioned that an ample contribution had been obtained. An amount of R17 million from the Treasury has been included in the printed Estimate for 1988-89 for road repairs in the flood areas. Immediately after the flood people got down to assessing the damage and requesting the estimated amount from the Treasury. Repairs to the damage are progressing well.

There really is great appreciation for the speed with which funds were made available. There is also great appreciation for the way in which divisional council staff, especially staff members of the roads departments within the divisional councils, found time to repair the roads as soon as possible so as to cause as little inconvenience as possible to the people in the rural areas.

A further amount of R17 million was received from the Department of Transport. Due to the serious position of divisional council funds, a stage was reached when serious consideration had to be given to scaling down activities and retrenching workers with years of service which would have led to social consequences and further depopulation of the rural areas. We in the divisional councils of the Cape were very grateful for this gesture. We were able to prevent the scaling-down process to a certain extent.

A further R17,65 million was received from the Department of Transport for the provision of roads in irrigation areas. An increasing need for these roads has developed over the past five years and after continuous appeals over a very long period we eventually succeeded in getting this amount made available. This allocation is really a red-letter day for the divisional councils. Perhaps this is the last truly big contribution to the urgent need in these particular areas before the divisional councils start making an enormous contribution within the regional services councils.

When one looks at the provision made under Vote 4 for 1989-90 and bears in mind that the three abovementioned figures will no longer be available to keep the divisional councils afloat, their future does not seem too rosy. We can expect that most of them will shortly be experiencing financial difficulties once again. We can calculate and prove that the provision of funds has decreased by approximately 50% in real terms over say the past ten years.

Nevertheless, despite the growing traffic and particularly heavy vehicle traffic—one can debate this matter for a whole day—I want to congratulate everyone involved in the maintenance and building of roads on the good condition of the province’s road network in general. I think it is an example of efficiency and technological performance, and we must be grateful and proud that we can maintain such a good standard with the few resources available to us.

What does the road ahead look like, when divisional councils’ functions have been transferred to the regional services councils? There is a working group on the provision and maintenance of roads as a regional services council function under the chairmanship of Dr Theo Brand of the Department of Finance and on which the Association of Divisional Councils is represented. We are awaiting their report.

It is clear to me that funding by the province will continue as in the past with the necessary subsidies. Since there are expert staff in the divisional councils, I do not foresee any decline in our road network, on condition that the province’s contribution is not reduced. Over the years tertiary roads in the Cape, which are equivalent to minor roads, were funded by the province without the payment of property rates. We should like to see that the funds for these very important roads—namely minor roads—are also made available by the province in cooperation with the Department of Finance.

I should like to express my appreciation and thanks, as well as that of the Association of Divisional Councils, to the hon the Administrator and the MECs as well as the senior staff members for friendships which have developed over many years.

Mr Chairman, for a specific reason I should like to start by referring to the hon member Mr D P de K van Gend. This is “because” he referred to our Executive Director of Hospitals as her. The greybeard here behind me is not very happy about this. [Interjections.] To link up with this, for the hon member’s sake, I want to extend a warm welcome to the newly appointed Executive Director of Hospital and Health Services, Dr Watermeyer, and give hon members the assurance that we have really acquired an excellent official with a wide field of experience. He was in private practice, after which he specialized and he then entered the academic sphere. He came to the province from the Department of National Health. I also want to refer to another change in staff which took place, namely Mr Chris Schnetler who has taken over the administration and finances of the Department of Hospital and Health Services.

Seeing that I have started with the hon member Mr D P de K van Gend, I want to thank him for the extensive discussion on health problems as well as matters in connection with the process of urbanisation. I would like to point out to him that a very large percentage of the funds spent on the rendering of health services in the urban environment are indeed spent on rural patients who are referred to the cities for further treatment. This administration is also aware of the funds made available to the MRC to undertake research into the health impacts of urbanisation and it serves on the appropriate pilot committee to plan this matter properly.

†I now come to the hon member for Groote Schuur with whose speech we started the debate this morning. With reference to the provincial hospital of Port Elizabeth and his concern regarding the available facilities for individuals who are not the prime responsibility of the House of Assembly, which will be taking over those hospitals, we want to advise the hon member that services pertaining to members of other population groups, who have been cared for in those hospitals in the past, will in future continue on exactly the same basis as previously.

The hon the member’s reference to the non-availability of centres for the treatment of drug dependencies as a general affairs matter is incorrect. The hon member is reminded that facilities for detoxification as well as the initiation of treatment are available at all the teaching hospitals and major referral centres. Furthermore, Valkenberg and Stikland hospitals have established programmes for the treatment and rehabilitation of drug and alcohol dependency syndromes. In addition facilities exist in the community for the long-term follow-up, aftercare and maintenance of those individuals who have been treated in this regard.

The hon member for Haarlem spoke about the so-called long term effects of apartheid in hospital services. He referred to a reported underutilisation of Port Elizabeth Provincial Hospital whilst facilities for Black patients at Livingstone Hospital, inter alia, were totally overcrowded.

*The hon member is referred to the fact that the first phase of an upgrading facility for a further 600 beds—mainly for Black patients—will start in the near future in the Port Elizabeth metropolitan area. As regards the hon member’s reference to the so-called use of separate instruments for patients at Tygerberg hospital, I should like to inform him that this is not correct. The hon member is also referred to the fact that all intensive care facilities and facilities for high care are operated on a shared basis in this and other hospitals, for example.

Furthermore I gave the undertaking last year that this administration would give attention to the optimalisation of bed use in this province and that unutilised beds would be used more effectively. In this regard I should like to give hon members the following information.

Up to an including 31 March 1988 the following moves or changes took place in hospitals in respect of bed occupation. At Stellenbosch hospital six beds which were previously used in the White section have now been moved to the non-White section. At Somerset hospital 34 beds have been moved. This was brought about by moves which took place there. Underutilised beds in the White section were given to the non-White section. At Mowbray hospital seven beds were moved; at Kimberley hospital 20; at Tygerberg hospital 44; and at Karl Bremer hospital, 59. The total figure for that financial year is 170 beds.

In the 1988-89 financial year the following took place: At Tygerberg hospital—I am now talking about mixed intensive care facilities—an additional 131 beds were acquired and a further 126 beds were moved from the White section to the non-White section. The total figure is therefore 221 if one takes the 95 beds from the present year into account.

Up to an including 31 March 1989 a further six beds were also moved to the non-White section at Stellenbosch hospital; at Somerset hospital the figure was 34; at Malmesbury hospital 7; at Tygerberg hospital 250; at Karl Bremer hospital 59; at Mossel Bay hospital 14; and at Vryburg hospital 10 beds were moved to the non-White section. At the hospital in Kimberley the entire White maternity ward has at present been converted into a non-White facility and empty beds in Kimberley hospital are being used for a new White maternity ward. An additional 77 beds have been made available to the non-White population groups in this way. The total I have just mentioned to members is 499—one can say 500.

As regards the optimum utilisation of nurses’ homes by nursing staff of all population groups at provincial hospitals, with reference to the hon member for Haarlem’s question, I merely want to remind him of my remark yesterday that I will give feedback in this connection. The hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning has informed me that the Cape may continue with a programme which already exists. The necessary steps will now been taken to bring about the total utilisation of nurses’ homes in an efficient and sensitive way.

The hon member also made mention of a need for nurses’ facilities at Kareedouw. This matter already appears on the list of priorities, but owing to financial shortages, it can unfortunately not receive attention in the immediate future.

The hon member for North Western Cape commented on conditions in the non-White sections of provincial hospitals and said that there was a danger of contagious diseases like Aids breaking out. I should like to point out to the hon member that Aids will not be spread by random contact of this kind. As has already been said, our administration is giving attention to the matter of overcrowding in any case.

As regards the hon member’s request for free access to hospitals in general for members of Parliament, he is politely referred to the fact that hospital boards have visiting committees to look after the weal and woe of patients in provincial and other hospitals. It is however important for the good order in any clinic for all visits to be planned in advance and to be monitored by the medical superintendent with adequate knowledge and preparation. It would not be acceptable to give everyone free access to a place of care.

The hon member for George praised the standard of hospital services in this province. I should like to thank him for his interest and for his positive comments. We have taken cognisance of his recommendation that urgent attention be given to making more general practitioners available for service in areas where there are shortages. This matter is already been investigated by the appropriate statutory body. I am really grateful that the hon member understands under what pressure our hospital services are at the moment.

†With regard to the hon member for Cape Town Gardens’ comment on transport to hospitals I should like to point out that it is the policy of this administration not to deny transport facilities to those people in wheelchairs or on stretchers. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, the LP, which is the most important political party in South Africa, is striving to develop a political dispensation in the country in terms of which all citizens of the country will be treated fairly and equally. Apartheid is rejected by us as a cancer which threatens the continued existence of our society. That is why, in 1984, I was sent to Parliament by thousands of voters to dismantle apartheid and to heal our sick society. [Interjections.] If apartheid were abolished, all South Africans would have a better life.

With reference to page 7 of the annual report under the heading “Promotion of local government” I should like to quote the following:

The management committee system has become a source of frustration, and there is only one solution, namely direct representation. [Interjections.] In a country there is one government, and in a city or town there should only be one city or town council representing all the people. In Parliament, which is the highest authority, we can hold joint debates. Why can we not decide jointly about our town or city? Why do the powers vest in the White local authorities?

It is an established fact that management committees have no significant say over the control of affairs of a particular area and their people. In the Black residential area of Bhongulethu in Oudtshoorn the chairman of their management committee is employed by the local municipality, thus facilitating manipulation. Management committees are powerless. This is why I again want to make a plea for them to be abolished. [Interjections.]

The Bridgton Management Committee has been functioning without a secretary since last year. Although the post of secretary of the management committee has been vacant since the death of Mr Boesak in March last year, recommendations made by the management committee, which received many applications, were not accepted. A White official, Mr Anton Bekker, a former captain in the security police was seconded to the post without the management committee having been informed. [Interjections.]

Now they are unsafe.

In the meantime he has disappeared from Bridgton without a trace. [Interjections.] The management committee system causes conflict and tension owing to communication problems. As a result of the colour of their skin the management committee members in Bridgton in Oudtshoorn receive only R300 in comparison with the R600 paid to White town council members. [Interjections.] Today I want to make an earnest appeal to the Administrator of the Cape to ensure that a secretary for the Bridgton Management Committee is appointed. Furthermore there must be parity in the allowances for the management committee members of Bridgton.

Like an Elijah of old I want to say today: “For there is a sound of abundance of rain.” The LP, the party which will determine the future of this country, is adopting the course of reconciliation, and we have forgiven the mistakes of the past. However, we shall never forget the great injustice done to us. Therefore I want to make an urgent appeal for greater social, economic and political reform. [Interjections.]

According to the annual report the investigation into the establishment of regional services councils in the rest of the Cape Province where they have not yet been established, is already under way. Consequently I want to quote from the minutes of a meeting of the management committee which was held last night in Oudtshoorn. It reads:

A chairman of a regional services council must be acceptable to all the people. Therefore we in the Little Karoo are delighted that the verkrampte Mr Schultz, whom we as people created by God want to wish away, has withdrawn his candidature. Next I want to quote the following from Rapport Ekstra dated 19 February 1989.

In Dysselsdorp job opportunities for more than 15 000 residents are very limited, and consequently many people live in a subculture of poverty. We have a great need for a community health centre in Dysselsdorp since medical services are at present being provided approximately thirty kilometres away. It is an undeniable fact that many of our people in Dysselsdorp have actually died in the past because they could not afford the transport costs to go to Oudtshoorn for medical treatment.

A few years ago the Dysselsdorp Management Committee and I held discussions with the Provincial Administration about the need for a community health centre in Dysselsdorp. In spite of the fact that the hon Mr Deon Adams, MEC, gave us the assurance that that community centre would be built that same year, nothing ever came of this empty promise.

We cannot allow our people in Dysselsdorp and in the De Rust area to die unnecessarily. Therefore I again want to make an appeal to the hon the Administrator for the community health centre, which has already been approved, to be built this year. Our people in Dysselsdorp are chronically poor and at present can only use home remedies. I therefore want to quote to hon members the words of S V Petersen from his poem Bede:

Laat my dan maar my kruisweg gaan tot waar ek voor die donker staan.

The Provincial Administration does not have a very positive attitude towards the development of open beaches. If this allegation is not correct, positive steps should be taken immediately to open all God’s beaches in the Cape. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, the hon member for George this afternoon criticised the fact that I had criticised the MEC in charge of hospital services, Mr Van Wyk, about his decision to summarily dismiss Dr Kane-Berman from her post at Groote Schuur because she had made certain lighthearted predictions about the future.

In my opinion it is an untenable situation that a MEC who fills a very important post and who has acted so foolishly as to summarily discharge such a person because of such a trifle and is then forced to reappoint the person could be allowed to remain in his post.

It is clear that the Provincial Administration is involved in the application of large-scale racial discrimination—ie apartheid—on beaches and with regard to group areas permits, hospitals, public resorts etc.

I want to refer in particular to beach apartheid and the manner in which it is maintained by the Administration. In this regard I want to refer in particular to the speech of the hon the Administrator, especially with regard to Mossel Bay.

I want to make it very clear that over the years I have always had the highest regard for the hon the Administrator, also when he was a member of the Provincial Council. Although we differ politically, I still respect him as a person.

However, the manner in which he tried to justify the removal and replacement of that apartheid sign on the beach during the Dias Festival in Mossel Bay is a disgrace as far as I am concerned; it is shocking and it is an insult to every Coloured person in Mossel Bay and also in this House.

I shall deal with that in more detail. The argument of the hon the Administrator was that the city council of Mossel Bay had requested that the apartheid sign be removed for the duration of the festival because of the number of foreign visitors at the festival and because he did not want the sign to give rise to an incident of international magnitude. The sign was too prominent and all the television teams would record it on film for distribution overseas. That is true. It is already happening in the Strand.

His point of view is outrageous as far as I am concerned, because it was an attempt merely to disguise the ugly truth about South Africa; and secondly, because he immediately reacted positively in order to please foreigners, but did not pay any attention whatsoever to all the requests from the Coloured community of Mossel Bay that those signs be removed permanently and not only for that day. Nothing has been done about that and I find it disappointing. Because the hon the Administrator fills an important and powerful position in the province, I regard it as outrageous behaviour as well as an insult to those people who are not White.

†I want to refer to another point and that is the provincial administration’s involvement in community services and the townships. The provincial administration’s Department of Community Services and its officials manage the various local authorities established in the Black residential areas of the Cape. The way these authorities were brought about and the way in which they are being allowed to run, shows that this Government has no intention of negotiating an acceptable form of government for Black people but that it would rather impose its system and its own leaders on these communities. I will demonstrate what I mean.

It is still vivid in our minds how the State, with the help of security forces and officials of the department, actively assisted vigilante leader Mr Nxobongwana from Crossroads, in violently driving out more than 60 000 people from the greater Crossroads complex. We still suffer from the consequences of having to look for accommodation for those people.

At this very moment we face a similar situation and potentially a more dangerous one in Khayelitsha where tensions between the recently elected mayor, Mr Mali Hoza and a large cross-section of residents is reaching such a point that massive and large-scale violence can erupt at any time. I want to stress that point.

The system of making Khayelitsha one ward for the purposes of local elections last year, instead of dividing it into different wards, resulted in a situation where Mr Hoza and his group won all the seats while at least nine other well established leaders, who represent large areas of Khayelitsha—different areas to those of Mr Hoza—who did participate in the election, were all defeated. Because residents residing in these areas are still supportive of these nine leaders, Mr Hoza has resorted to a vicious and a violent campaign to force opposing residents in these areas to support him.

At the moment, marauding gangs of Mr Hoza’s bully boys, which comprise “kitskonstabels”, councillors and others—people armed with guns, swords and kieries—go from door to door in the Khayelitsha squatter camp intimidating people who do not swear loyalty to Mr Hoza, who is only the mayor.

Squatters who do not approach Mr Hoza for permission to erect a shack but who received permission from one of the other nine leaders before Mr Hoza was elected have been forced to reapply to Mr Hoza and pay R25. When they refused to do this, they were beaten with gun butts by the “kitskonstabels” and had their shacks demolished. Those who have refused to ask him for permission have been taken off to kangaroo courts which are presided over by Mr Hoza himself. I have evidence—there is no dispute about this.

At these kangaroo courts of Mr Hoza he unceremoniously shows them a photograph of himself on the wall. He asks them if they know the man, then tells them that he is the mayor, and asks them who gave them the right to erect their shack in that area of Khayelitsha. He then sentences people to fines totalling R400 and R500 a day—he makes money that way—or has them whipped. He even refuses those who want to buy their own house permission to do so. Some of the companies marketing houses are co-operating with him in this respect.

Increasing numbers of people are fleeing before these bands of Mr Hoza’s bully boys.

Will you say it outside?

I will say it outside any time.

Shootings have already occurred. There will be many more. There has even been an attack on Mr Hoza’s life, and many more will take place if nothing is done. A repetition of the Crossroads violence of 1986 is upon us unless this administration and this Government does something to stop it.

The administration knows what is happening. The Government, too, knows fully what is happening. Letters have been sent to the hon the State President, the hon the Minister of Law and Order, the hon the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the hon the Minister of Defence etc. Nothing has been done yet.

The Government must not blame those of us who draw the conclusion that it actively supports the installation of vigilante type warlords such as Mr Nxobongwana and Mr Hoza and of their open use of violence and intimidation against their opponents in order to take total control of the Black townships which they have been allocated to run. Something needs to be done to end the chaos and the corruption in these local authorities.

*I want to stress that there are thousands of people in those residential areas who have no protection. They cannot lodge a complaint with the police, because then they are told that they should complain to Mr Hoza. At this stage Mr Hoza has the full support of all the administrative powers of the CPA. Although the hon the Administrator may not agree with everything I have said, I want to make an urgent appeal to him not to allow this situation to continue. He will bring the whole system of democracy into disrepute. How can people be expected to support a democracy if this is the kind of democracy they have? Evidently the principle of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth as well as “the law of the jungle” is acceptable to the Government.

However, this is not the case only in Khayelitsha. It was the case in Crossroads, and now in Natal as well, where there is no doubt that institutions representing the State actively support those people who kill and intimidate others. I want to make it clear that I am opposed to all violence—I suppose hon members are as well—no matter from whence it comes. However, the Government must prove to us that if it comes from these vigilantes, these “bully boys”, it is not going to be tolerated. The mere questioning of the violence of so-called radical leftists and turning of a blind eye to those who wish to co-operate for their own obscure motives, proves that the Government is not acting fairly.

Mr Chairman, I hope that the hon member for Claremont will remain in his seat for a while because I want to put a few questions to him.

He said “the Government shows no intention of a negotiated settlement which is acceptable to most people of the area”. That hon member is a fine one to speak about “negotiated settlement which is acceptable to most people of the area”.

†That hon member himself interferes in the affairs of other constituencies where he was not elected, where he actually plays the role of a vigilante.

*That hon member will receive replies to the allegations which he made here from the hon MEC who is thoroughly informed. I want to ask him, however, whether he will be attending the formation of the new Democratic Party on Saturday, 8 April. Has he received an invitation? [Interjections.] I hear that he has not received an invitation. The reason is that the Democratic Party has entered into an agreement with Dr Worrall according to which the constituency of Claremont has been allocated to Dr Worrall. In other words, the hon member has been robbed of his seat in an undemocratic way.

I think that this is a good opportunity for us today, as an extended public committee, to bid farewell with courtesy and appreciation to that hon member here. The provincial budget debate being held today is probably the last which he will attend as a result of the agreement which has been entered into outside his jurisdiction and undemocratically within his constituency. I want to say goodbye to him and I wish him a pleasant rest after the next election. [Interjections.]

I should like to spend a short time discussing development in which the Provincial Administration is involved. I want to start by saying that, when developers launch new projects from time to time, the conflict between conservation and development frequently flares up.

In my constituency there have been a few cases of conflicting interests and standpoints in the recent past between the local authority, the developer and later the Administration too. I provided the hon MEC with examples as preparation. I am referring to the farm Franskraal where application was made for amendment to rezoning, the rezoning of the farm Hangklip and approval of 45 dwellings at Wortelgat to the south of the Klein River lagoon at Hermanus.

There are numerous examples in the interior and along our coast of development which is an ideal compromise between conservation and development on which one would like to compliment and congratulate local authorities and the Administration. There are undoubtedly splendid examples of an ideal compromise between development and conservation. In contrast there are unfortunately also examples of degradation, not in consequence of development as such, but as a result of insensitive development. It is unfortunately true that the public is concerned—with specific reference to Hermanus and vicinity—that developments along that mountain and the Klein River lagoon could lead to degradation of the environment taking place there, not as a result of development as such, but in consequence of possible insensitive development.

In this regard I should like to congratulate the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee on the overall coastal structure plan which has already been drawn up, according to information at my disposal. It is usually said: “Beware the Greeks bearing gifts” but that is not the case; I am on quite friendly terms with the hon MEC. On the adoption of this plan, the Cape Coast, just like that of Natal, will be subject to sensitivity planning according to which the entire coast is divided into zones which are accorded certain development priorities. I should like to ask the hon MEC when this coastal structure plan will finally be completed and approved by the Executive Committee as a policy document and how local authorities and developers will have access to this coastal development plan.

It is clear and it is evidence of our times that radical differences and uncertainty frequently exist on how the demands of development and conservation may be reconciled with each other and the question is how essential developments can take place without destroying the principle of conservation but by complementing it.

My own philosophy is that a contradiction does not necessarily exist between the ultimate goal of conservation and development because both are directed at the upgrading of social standards for today and for the future. The question is how one can accomplish this in practice.

The difference of opinion which arose between the Caledon Divisional Council and the Administration on the three examples which I mentioned to the hon MEC are proof that there is need for the urgent adoption of the Council for the Enviroment’s plan and proposals for an integrated environment management system. This means that the comprehensive implications of developments on the social and physical environment and the impact on natural resources should be evaluated effectively and adequately through all the stages of development, starting with the planning of basic principles; the Provincial Administration has already laid the foundation to this by having the coastal development structure plan drawn up.

Order! Hon members must converse more softly. The hon member for Caledon may proceed.

I accept with gratification that the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee are in agreement on a philosophic plane regarding a comprehensive management system for development along our coast and in sensitive natural areas in the interior through the drawing up of this coastal structure plan. Drawing up detailed structural plans is obviously a function of local authorities and frequently such structural plans do not yet exist in many areas. Consequently insensitive development takes place there, such as that along the Klein River lagoon at Hermanus.

I should like to appeal amicably to the hon MEC to encourage local authorities to complete structural plans for micro-areas where sensitive conditions exist. I should also like to ask—although I am hesitant to do so—whether the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee could possibly consider financial assistance to such local authorities.

In addition I want to request the hon MEC to consider this or rather to fault it by turning down appeals for developments if no thorough environmental impact evaluations have been carried out. I want to request in particular that the hon MEC hesitate to consider the approval of rezoning such as at Hangklip, for example, where there were comprehensive local objections to the unanimous decision of the local authority. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, with the limited time at my disposal I shall now confine myself to the discussion of nature conservation and museum services, and if possible I shall then answer one or two questions, replying tomorrow about libraries.

Again it is a singular privilege to address this Committee, and I should like to congratulate hon members on their perceptive reaction yesterday during the debate on matters relating to my Vote. They asked penetrating questions, and that is a sign of their singular interest in nature, in environmental conservation and also in libraries.

It is also gratifying to know that the interest in our natural heritage will be transferred to the communities that hon members represent. The way in which hon members reacted indicates that there is—if I may use the word—a new awakening with regard to the wonderful natural heritage in South Africa as a whole and in the Cape Province in particular.

If hon members were to ask me whether people in South Africa were conservation-conscious, I could only reply that they are, in fact, conservation-conscious, but that the harmful influence of development—here I should like to mention plastic pollution—places a heavy burden on programmes for conservation in the future. If one looked at the great degree of plastic pollution along our roads, and at the amount of money spent in getting rid of that plastic, if one saw the number of letters we received, particularly from coastal areas, where people complain about plastic pollution, one would not be surprised at the tremendous burden this plastic pollution places on our department. If one added to this the projected impact of urbanisation, which takes a heavy toll as far as conservation is concerned, and also bore the industrialisation of South Africa in mind, one would realise that this placed a very great burden on our department.

I want to refer briefly to the question raised by the hon member for Caledon in connection with conservation and development. That is an aspect we are dealing with very circumspectly. The department’s approach has always been one in which conservation did not necessarily exclude development, but rather one in which one of these aspects augmented the other. And we also deal with this aspect, in conjunction with the local authority and my hon colleague, Mr Schoeman, MEC, in such a way that these two aspects link up, the one not necessarily excluding the other. Here we are dealing with a problem in terms of which conservationists tell us that we are allowing development to take place everywhere, while the developers tell us we want to apply conservation to all areas. We must steer these two trends of thought in a direction in which the one can complement the other. One cannot have uncurtailed development, because there must at least be something left to conserve. I can nevertheless give the assurance—I specifically want to direct my attention to the hon member for Caledon—that we always try to satisfy all parties in this respect.

It is going to be my department’s job to arrange for more educational programmes, which reach everyone, in an effort to make them more conservation-conscious. My point of departure has always been that we have a wonderful heritage to conserve. Therefore, in spite of what has been done in regard to conservation—I appreciate that—after this session we are going to launch further programmes to progressively project the conservation aspect to all communities. I do not believe that the conservation aspect, and what conservation entails, is sufficiently projected to all levels and all population groups. If one were to make inquiries at our schools, one would notice the tendency that many children are not aware of what one is talking about when one talks about conservation.

In the Bokkeveld constituency, for example, one finds one of the rarest plants in the world, and I do not think that the people of the Bokkeveld know this. That is why I am saying that conservation programmes should progressively be projected.

As far as the appointment of nature conservationists is concerned, I should like to mention that all appointments are made on merit and that colour does not play a role. The only requirement is a good matriculation pass so that the candidate can be accepted by a technikon where a diploma course in nature conservation is offered. The matriculation subjects, of course, include biology and mathematics. Let me just mention that nine Coloureds and six Black nature conservationists are already on our establishment. There is, however, room for so many more.

I come back to the point that these matters really should be promoted by all my colleagues here to my left and, please, by all hon members in their constituencies. Encourage our people to apply for work as nature conservationists so that those posts can also be filled by people of colour.

What is more, I merely wish to state that as far as museum services are concerned, we do not speak in terms of colour either. It was a revelation for me, for example, when I took over this portfolio, to see that at not one of the museums …

… was there a CP member. [Interjections.]

Mr Chairman, I can tell the hon member for Swartland that there are, in fact, some of them. [Interjections.] At not one single museum, however, has a Coloured or Black curator or curatrix been appointed. Yet the posts are vacant. I therefore also want to ask hon members to promote this idea very forcefully amongst our people. The requirement is a Bachelor’s’ degree and a little experience in museum services. Then an application can be made for this particular post.

I should like to turn my attention to the hon member for Groote Schuur. I find the hon member’s criticism that the province, and in particular my department, contributes to apartheid by being responsible for Sonesta and Keurbooms, uncalled for. I regard it as unjust and misplaced, to say the least. [Interjections.] These resorts are administered for the relevant administrations, and the province acts as an agent. We do not implement policy there.

You have missed the point.

Let me tell the hon member that these specific resorts are being transferred. I want to quote to hon members from a letter I wrote to my colleague, Mr Samuels, MEC, on 14 March. I quote:

In other words, these resorts are going to be transferred to the Administration: House of Representatives. So much for Sonesta. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I listened with interest to the generally constructive and positive approach of the MEC to conservation matters in the Cape Province. I also listened carefully to the hon member for Caledon’s remarks about the question of development on the one hand and conservation on the other, which to my mind were well expressed. He pointed out that development and conservation were not necessarily irreconcilable but that one should always maintain a balance between the demands of one and those of the other. I do hope that the administration will maintain that balance.

I would also like to talk about conservation with particular reference to the beautiful valley of Hout Bay. That valley is so beautiful that they secede from time to time. This week was the third time in three years that they seceded to become the “Republic of Hout Bay”. As hon members know, if one has problems with passports and one would like to visit countries that do not recognise the ordinary green South African passport one can buy a passport of the Republic of Hout Bay for a couple of rands and travel all over the world. This is done as a fund-raising exercise for charity in that area.

†Mr Chairman, I do not think anybody will deny that, snuggling against the folds at the back of Table Mountain, the Hout Bay valley with its peaks, trees, fields, white sands and blue seas is not just one of the most beautiful valleys in South Africa; it is one of the most beautiful valleys in the world. I believe that the present generation in which Hout Bay’s care has been placed has a responsibility—a duty indeed—to see that the development which takes place in that area will not destroy, but rather protect, supplement and strengthen the incomparable natural heritage of that magnificent valley.

Fortunately, there are many caring people in Hout Bay. There is a vigorous and watchful ratepayers’ association, there is an active harbour area committee and there is an energetic band of resourceful conservationists led by the indefatigable Nan Rice.

There are nevertheless certain fields of concern for the environment in Hout Bay due to three major problems. The first is the problem of its proximity to and accessibility from the expanding metropolis of Cape Town which will inject a natural pressure of population and development. One finds this magnificent piece of natural heritage 15 minutes away from the city. This is a problem. It is a danger.

Secondly, because of its location and attraction, there is the danger of commercial and industrial exploitation dominating over environmental considerations. This is a risk.

Thirdly, there is the absence of a single, effective local authority with total responsibility for that area. This is already a problem and it does not look as though it is going to be resolved in the near future.

So today I seek some assurance and support from the hon the Administrator and his colleagues. I want to deal with the question—I use the phrase advised—of a single, effective local government for Hout Bay. Hout Bay has not yet acquired local government status. For years it functioned under the Cape Divisional Council. Since the demise of that council it has had to rely on an amorphous Regional Services Council in which it has no representation.

It is moving towards local council status, but even if that happens, Hout Bay will end up with a local government with local responsibility divided on apartheid lines under the present system of local government imposed on all of us by statute. That will be the reality. The Whites of the valley will have a local council and the so-called Coloureds of the harbour area will have a separate management committee. That is the reality. Ironically enough, the people of Llandudno, who live on the other side of Klein Leeukoppie, will be deemed to be part of Hout Bay but people who live in Hout Bay’s harbour area will not!

I believe that the people of Hout Bay, whoever they are, share the same valley, they share the same infrastructure and to an increasing extent they share the same amenities. Neither of them has a hinterland to which they can expand. Inevitably they will have to expand towards each other. They will have to grow towards each other. I want this administration to help the people of Hout Bay to grow towards each another as South Africans. To split the people of Hout Bay into two separate local authorities is illogical, inefficient and downright racist. It is nothing else.

I ask the hon the Administrator to use his influence. He holds a formal position but he is also a key informal advisor in constitutional development and planning matters. He is a member of various co-ordinating committees. I want him to do whatever he can to use his influence and to tell us that he will use his influence so that he people of Hout Bay can enjoy the benefit of a single, effective non-racial local authority. This is an important factor as far as conservation is concerned.

The second issue is the question of conservation in general. I would like a statement, stronger than we had this afternoon, that residential, commercial and industrial development will not be allowed to destroy or pollute the natural environment when it comes to Table Mountain or Disa River, the coastline or the harbour. I believe on this issue there should be no compromise and I would like the administration to say that there will be no compromise.

Plastic has now become a major threat to environmental control. It comes from building sites, from the shops, from the visitors and from the tourists. There are public awareness campaigns and I hope there will be more. Does the administration have the personnel to deal with this issue in terms of environmental control, especially in the harbour? Does the newly appointed Chief Fisheries Control Officer—who I believe is taking over round about today—have the authority, does he have the teeth to enforce anti-pollution regulations? Is there not a case for introducing spot fines for pollution whether it is on the part of individuals or commercial or industrial enterprises? Is the administration satisfied that it has the situation under control?

Finally, I want to say a few words about the Hout Bay harbour. The fact is that development is going to take place in the harbour area. Certain interest groups have been invited to make submissions but the public in general has no knowledge of what is taking place as far as the development of Hout Bay harbour is concerned. This is simply not good enough. I believe it is as essential as it was in Cape Town to get public participation in the planning, the structuring and the usage and possibly the control and administration of certain parts of the harbour. I believe the harbour area will be a much more successful area, a much more usable area and a much happier area if it is not separated by a fence belonging to another department but if it is an integral part of the community of Hout Bay. Hout Bay and the harbour must become reintegrated.

Although it is not analogous, a lesson should be learnt from the report of the Burggraaf Committee in respect of parts of Cape Town. It is not analogous, but a tremendous wave of public interest has been aroused by the simple fact that the SATS, the local authority and the private sector are now planning together. It is not good enough that planning decisions should be taken by bureaucrats on the advice of other people. Planning decisions should involve participation by the people—all the people who are going to be affected. I want to urge that all the people of Hout Bay should be taken into their confidence by the administration and that the authorities, such as there are, should be brought in—people like the Ratepayers’ Association and the representatives of the harbour area people. Let them be brought into a board, a committee or a commission or whatever to plan that whole area.

We are not talking just about nautical facilities. We are talking about factories, shops and restaurants, and some people are even talking about time-share residential schemes. It is not good enough that that should be outside the jurisdiction of the local community. Every local community living near a harbour should be a part of that harbour, its functioning and its planning because their lives and their environment depend on it.

Let me add this: Every decent republic with a coastline would like to have a harbour for itself in any case!

Mr Chairman, allow me to express my thanks and appreciation to the hon the Administrator and his MECs as well as the officials for the co-operation I received with regard to problems in my constituency, Genadendal. I also want to express my thanks for the funding of the library at Napier, the assistance in connection with the sports facilities in my constituency, the extension of a hospital and also the regional development resort at Buffeljags.

I also want to express thanks on behalf of the fisherman’s association at Struisbaai for the extension of the Struisbaai harbour. They thank the hon the Administrator for his support throughout the development and extension of the Struisbaai harbour. Furthermore I want to request that the hon the Administrator subject the licensing of ski boats to close scrutiny. They cause an enormous number of problems at the harbour. Normally ski boats do not need licences, but commercial fishing boats do.

The biggest problem in my constituency is access roads. Access roads that go through the White suburbs are tarred, but not those that go through the Coloured towns. I want this matter to be investigated. Mr Van Wyk, MEC, Mr Adams, MEC, and Mr Samuels, MEC, were there. I pointed out the problem to them and they agreed that the road that runs through the Coloured town should be tarred. Mr Van Wyk, MEC, said, however, that his problem was sufficient funds. I want to request that he try to find funds to tar the section of road that runs through the Coloured town.

A school with 500 pupils is on the right-hand side of the road. There is also a church, a school hall, a church hall and a community hall and the building of a library is in progress. The children have to cross this road every day. This road is access road to Gansbaai, Pearly Beach, Elim, De Dam and Buffeljags. The farmers use the road very often. Hon members can imagine how many vehicles make use of that road. People are covered in dust when vehicles drive past and the windows in the school building and school hall cannot even be opened. I want the matter to receive attention.

I also want to talk about an access road to the development resorts. At Struisbaai, Waenhuiskrans and Buffeljags one has to drive through the Coloured areas to reach the resorts. During the holiday season the houses are covered in dust as vehicles drive past. The province spends thousands of rands on development resorts. Why then can funds not be allocated so that the roads can be tarred?

I also want to talk about the road from Bredasdorp to Elim, and want to tell Mr Van Wyk, MEC, how much traffic that road carries. During the past financial year a flower farm, which was still in its infancy ten years ago, transported R2 million worth of flowers on this road. Ten tons of grain are transported on this road annually. Wool and livestock to the value of R4 million are transported on the road annually. The residents of Elim depend on that road for the transport of their supplies for shops and butcheries. These supplies include meat, chicken, bread, milk, newspapers, etc. The residents of Elim also depend on that road to get to work. There are numerous farmers, builders, doctors and workers who travel from Elim to Bredasdorp and elsewhere to get to their places of work daily. Three buses transport schoolchildren to and from the high school in Bredasdorp on this road every day. This is a great source of concern since there have been numerous accidents on that road.

According to information, 80% of all vehicles that have been towed in after being involved in accidents come from the Elim-Bredasdorp road. The hospital and medical services also make use of the road. Since Elim does not have a local doctor, the community, and especially the Elim Home, the hospital for the disabled and the clinic have to drive to Bredasdorp themselves with emergency cases that require medical treatment.

It is no pleasant experience for pregnant mothers and other casualties when they have to be transported to Bredasdorp, apart from the distance and time spent on the road, to be exposed to the discomfort of the coarse road surface and dust. On rainy days muddy conditions are a great risk to both the drivers and the passengers of vehicles.

In view of the high and steadily increasing replacement costs of windscreens and other spare parts, and the high risk that numerous owners of small and medium cars in Elim and the surrounding area hold for insurance companies, agents are becoming more and more hesitant to sell comprehensive insurance to car owners.

Last but not least it is common knowledge that the emphasis today is on tourism and on the discovery, rediscovery and appreciation of the country’s cultural heritage. How many people are not eager to visit Elim with its rich and interesting history, and to enjoy the beauty of the Strandveld? When they have to struggle to or from Bredasdorp amidst dust and stones, however, their desire and enthusiasm wane and consequently the road is avoided.

I also want to talk about Genadendal’s regional development resort. I also addressed a letter to the hon Mr Schoeman, MEC. I want to ask him please to take a look at the development resort at Genadendal. Hon members know that with regard to its detailed planning and its three posts, Genadendal was dealt with as early as 1987. I wish to ask whether this regional development resort cannot be considered now.

As the main seat of the Moravian Church and as a most popular tourist attraction, Genadendal receives many visitors throughout the year, but especially during Easter, Christmas and other Moravian festive days. Genadendal is also on the route taken through the Overberg by Captour, and tourists from all over the world—approximately 6 000 during the past year—are taken there daily to visit the many historic monuments, including the church, the museum and the old bridge over the Sonderend River.

There is a lack of facilities where these visitors can relax and enjoy the scenery, however. The development of the camping site will satisfy this need and lead to even more people from the surrounding towns wanting to visit Genadendal. The proposed site is situated next to the Sonderend River south of the Baviaans River in the West. The Caledon-Greyton road, which is also a good access route, forms the eastern boundary.

The physical position is such that there should not be any problem with regard to development. The site has a very gradual slope and at present it is overgrown by Port Jackson and pine trees which can be used for shade and windbreaks.

As can be seen, the 1:20 flood-line runs through the area, with the result that the more permanent structures will be placed beyond the flood area. Floods can also be restricted by ensuring that the river banks are kept clear. In addition the river serves as a further enhancement of the camping site. In view of the above, I hope and trust that the hon Mr Schoeman, MEC, will ensure that the development resort becomes a reality.

I have a problem with drinking water at Protem. I have with me an account from the divisional council. They have to pay an account of R4 000 per quarter for the water consumption of Protem’s 20 residents. I should like to ask how the administration can help us with regard to the problem of drinking water.

I want to refer to the ambulance service from Klipdale to Protem. The SATS has curtailed its bus service and the divisional council refuses to provide an ambulance service for the community. I should like to request that the establishment of an ambulance service be considered. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Genadendal will no doubt excuse me if I do not respond to his speech. However I want to refer briefly to what the hon member for Sea Point mentioned, namely the shortage of law enforcement officers and officials who are actually essential in order to give expression to what we all envisage and strive for.

†I think the hon member made a balanced and very interesting speech concerning Hout Bay and the dilemma—which is not unusual—that it faces, namely the conflict between developers and conservationists. In my considered opinion the most important aspect of this dilemma is public opinion. If we can properly harness public opinion then one can obviously come to a proper conclusion in matters where this conflict exists.

*I want to emphasise what I have already said in a previous debate in the House, namely that public opinion is beginning to play an increasingly greater role in decisions which affect the environment and nature. In a democratic community, it is essential that this should happen, because it means that if the Government were to pay attention to public opinion, it would remain in touch with the community. A healthy, balanced and enthusiastic public opinion also has an extremely healthy influence on decision-makers.

I want to begin by congratulating the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee on the way in which they have taken decisions and acted on matters of this nature in a sensitive and considerate way during the past year.

In my opinion, the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee set an excellent example by the way in which they dealt with the application with regard to the small-boat harbour at Plettenberg Bay. I am one of the people who oppose that development, but there is no doubt that this is a controversial issue and that it is an extremely sensitive matter.

The hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee nevertheless ensured that wide-ranging discussions with the public took place. Forums were created and the opportunity was presented for full participation in the whole process. It is time-consuming and often frustrating, but the most important and the best result which will ultimately flow from this, is that whatever decision is made—it will probably be announced one of these days—it will be generally accepted because justice will be seen to have prevailed.

Whatever decision is made, there will be opposition. The fact is that where such an input is allowed, the public is more prepared to concede that a decision has been made with regard to such matters with general approval or at least that the decision can be understood.

This procedure which was followed in Plettenberg Bay with regard to the small-boat harbour application can, in my opinion, also be followed in other areas, and I am thinking in particular of the Quota Board in terms of the new Sea Fisheries Act. It is a method which ought to be followed where public opinion is obtained. It is being applied very successfully in the USA and there is far more satisfaction amongst the public in this regard.

I want to touch on a few ideas with regard to the control measures applied by the province in order to protect their assignment with regard to marine, nature and environmental conservation campaigns and I want to indicate how effective or ineffective they are, because the Cape has a particular obligation in this regard. Not only do we have the longest coastline to protect but we also have the largest surface area, which creates unique control problems.

The control of the public on our public beaches is making the news to an increasing extent. This is controlled by the Sea-shore Act and there are many matters which must be improved with regard to this Act. However, the impression is being created that no control measures exist, or that is the perception. In reality, the authorities which are situated along the coast have regulations which simply need to be implemented. The problem lies with the enforcement and implementation of the regulations.

It goes without saying that the existing beaches have a great economic value for those particular communities. As such, those communities ought to have a direct interest in the economic utilisation of their beach and beach areas. I therefore want to maintain that the local authorities themselves should appoint people to take charge of the control of their beach area, along with the province. This will transfer a certain administrative cost burden from the province, to a degree. I think it will also lead to a better enforcement of the control over marine and other resources.

The problem of insufficient personnel is not only applicable to beach control and marine control, but also to general aspects of nature conservation, as I think the hon the Administrator as well as the hon MEC have conceded.

Effective control and protection of resources can only be achieved if an adequate body of personnel is available. To illustrate this, I want to refer to the fact that the Cape covers a surface area of 7 million square kilometres. There are 53 people to control it, of whom only 43 are actively in the veld. The fact of the matter is that each officer has to try to deal with a surface area of approximately 17 000 sq km. Such a situation requires urgent attention if we are in any way serious about the enforcement of protection measures.

In passing I just want to say to the MEC that it was with appreciation that I heard of the new points of departure which are contained in his hunting proclamations. The basic point of departure has changed, namely that the owner of the land on which the game occurs is now regarded as a responsible person, with a positive disposition with regard to game and nature conservation.

Furthermore, the standpoint is adopted that attention must be given to the protection of rarer species rather than placing restrictions on the plentiful species. I think we are in the process of implementing good management.

What is also interesting is the fact that it has finally been conceded that bush-buck rams and kudu bulls are not the only animals of that species which have to be shot. This is something which has been advocated for a long time, and I am very pleased to see that this is being implemented.

A far more important function has now been entrusted to the province, namely the management and control of marine assets. The province’s responsibility is basically divided into four components: (1) inspection services, (2) fishing harbours, (3) patrol boats and (4) the islands. This large and comprehensive task—an industry which brings in almost a billion rand—is dealt with by approximately 250 people, which includes the 13 fishing harbours. This task implies a 24-hour service, seven days a week. It is not only commercial interests that are involved here, but also non-commercial users of these marine resources, namely the general public. This service is provided by means of vehicles, foot patrols, patrol boats, ski boats, larger boats and also deep-sea vessels. Inspections of factory premises, etc are also conducted.

It is my opinion that an intolerable burden is being placed on the staff, especially if one bears in mind that aids such as aeroplanes and helicopters are not available to them. They therefore do not have sufficient aids. We will have to go into this, because it is an important industry, not only from the commercial point of view—which I have already indicated to be a gigantic industry—but also from the non-commercial point of view, namely that of the tourist industry as well as the utilisation of the recreational fleet. I think the hon member for Genadendal also referred to this. In my opinion this is a matter which should definitely be attended to.

With regard to the fishing industry, there is insufficient control over the white fish and also over the chokka industry. I am not satisfied that the control there is correct, and furthermore there is a certain amount of uncertainty as to what the situation is with regard to the inspection services when it comes to holders of foreign licence quotas. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure and a privilege on this peaceful afternoon to speak after the hon member for Uitenhage. It is always very interesting to hear what he has to say on the environment and the conservation of the environment. He is very interested in that subject.

Today, much has been said about apartheid, beaches, vigilantes and what have you. I am glad that part of the debate was dealt with earlier so that we can now discuss a few other aspects in a peaceful manner.

I would like to start by expressing our sincere thanks to the hon the Administrator of the Cape for his guidance, the part he is playing and the remarkable way in which he is doing it. I would like to inform him that we in the Cape are particularly proud of him and his charming wife and we are sure that the interests of this province are in the best possible hands. Furthermore I would like to say we trust that it will not be long before the hon the Administrator will be with us on this side of the Cape permanently, so that we too will be able to use his services here to a greater extent. I would also like to thank him sincerely for the delightful function he held the other evening. I think it was an excellent idea to bring together all the former members of the Provincial Council; please accept my thanks in that regard.

I would like to discuss Metro. This is one aspect of which we tend to lose sight, but which makes a tremendous contribution in the form of service to the public, something which is not always recognised. Metro is the Medical Emergency Transport and Rescue Organisation, a specialised unit which is operated by the local authorities within the framework of the ambulance service on behalf of the Cape Provincial Administration. The main elements of this organisation is firstly Metro Control—the emergency medical control centres in the three regions of the province. It provides co-ordinated ambulance services by means of an extensive radio network to ambulances, hospitals, rescue vehicles, vehicles for transport of patients and other emergency organisations such as the Mountaineering Club, the South African Police, the traffic police and several others.

The Metro Advanced Life Support Service is available in Cape Town and Port Elizabeth, and serves large areas in the province in co-operation with the flying ambulance service. A highly sophisticated service is being rendered to hospitals in the cities and at the same time it renders services over a large area for spine injuries and new-born babies, as well as for the inter-hospital transfers of patients who have to be kept under intensive care conditions.

†The third element is probably the most well-known, namely the Metro Rescue Squad, which was established ten years ago in Cape Town and recently extended to the Eastern Cape under the name of Metro Algoa. This squad specialises in medical rescue and all the personnel serving on it are skilled and, above all, experienced ambulance personnel who can provide an unequalled standard of patient care, while at the same time setting new standards in rescue so that today we really talk about rescue and Metro rescue.

They work very closely with numerous other organisations, providing a co-ordinated rescue service recognised for its excellence, not only in South Africa but also overseas. They were present in Laingsburg and at the Mossel Bay bus disaster and have participated in literally thousands of other rescue operations in the short time of their existence.

As stated, the Metro system—that is what it is—is part of the ambulance service run on behalf of the CPA by local authorities. It goes without saying that the ambulance service is the foundation on which everything rest and therefore must be basically sound. The ambulance service—which had some 480 emergency ambulances and approximately 150 units, such as patient transfer buses in the Cape Province—last year conveyed 771 000 patients over no less than 27 million kilometres.

Through rationalisation and excellent co-ordination by the province and with the total cooperation of local authorities the cost of carrying these patients rose by less than 2% per patient in the past year.

Order! Hon members are conversing too enthusiastically again. The hon member for Newton Park may proceed.

I will come to apartheid shortly, Sir.

†The expansion of services to meet a growth in demand of more than 12% per annum for the province as a whole is financially demanding, but perhaps more frustrating is the inability to provide even better quality services due to a lack of finance. Incrementally, however, over the years improvements have taken place. The radio system for the province as a whole is nearing completion, medical rescue facilities are available in 28 towns and cities in the Cape, covering large areas from these points.

*The condition of the ambulances is a source for grave concern, but thanks to additional funds which were made available this year, we hope to be able to make the necessary replacements within the foreseeable future. The training of staff is well under way, and a new facility is already available in Cape Town. Suitable facilities will soon be created in Port Elizabeth as well, and I would like to appeal to the administration to deal promptly with the matter in Port Elizabeth. They are welcome to contact me in connection with any assistance which the administration may need in this regard. [Interjections.] The more that hon member fights, the better.

†It remains a major problem, however, that once again financial problems preclude the service from particularly the rural areas. Unfortunately, unlike equipment, manpower is a major consumer of finance, year in and year out, but the question must be asked if one can afford to have one-man ambulances operating anywhere.

*I am honestly of the opinion that one-man ambulances is not a healthy practice. Consequently I would like to appeal to the administration to handle this affair with great caution in order to ensure that the quality of services rendered by the ambulance services in our province will not be lowered.

In the periodical, Suid-Afrikaanse Panorama, of June 1987, Helena Goosen writes the following article on Metro:

She proceeds to describe the activities of the team members as follows:

It is indeed a service of outstanding quality, and I am thankful for the opportunity I had today of saying a few words on this meritorious organisation. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, since yesterday I have owed the hon member for Losberg an answer. It relates to the loans against securities that were made by the old Western Cape Development Board for development in that area. The total amount of the securities is R25,046 million. I think we made it clear to the hon member yesterday why only a relatively small amount had been appropriated for the current year, namely because only one of those securities will be redeemed this year. The others will be redeemed over a period which varies from September 1990 to September 2003.

I have also been asked to make a correction with regard to a question asked by the hon member for Losberg. I think there was apparently some uncertainty in the answering of the question to which he referred, because the figure of 2,7% which was mentioned in the question, only referred to the capital requirements under Vote 8.

If one looks at page 18 of the printed Estimate in which an exposition of the current and capital expenditure is given, one will note that the total capital expenditure under all the Votes amounts to the sum of R692,144 million, or 23,58% of the appropriation. Naturally those amounts that have been obtained from the local authorities loan funds or from the National Housing Commission, the co-ordination and monitoring of which is supervised by the province, have not been included in this amount.

The hon member for Losberg also made an appeal to the effect that people should be helped to help themselves. I think this is precisely what this province is doing, particularly with regard to Blacks. The financial provisions and the restrictions which we have to live with, do not always make this easy, but I just want to mention one or two examples. Since May 1988 a start has been made by the province’s office for community services on the devolution to Black local authorities of all those local authority functions which were formerly undertaken by the development boards. Moreover, in the process certain staff have already been transferred to local authorities or appointed by them.

At present intensive training as town clerks, town treasurers and other staff is taking place. The province has also established a number of sub-regional offices which are geared to furnishing local authorities and their staff with in-service training and advice in the work situation. Selfhelp building projects to enable people to construct their own houses by way of material loans and utilising their own labour, are also being strongly encouraged by the province. Black local authorities are also being intensively involved in the entire campaign with regard to the sale of houses, which is regarded as very important by the province, in order by so doing to afford the owners and the local authorities every possible advantage.

Community development projects are continually being launched, such as the promotion of sport, the founding of women’s organisations, children’s homes, etc. However, I think one should understand the fact that this is a difficult training and educational task which cannot be accomplished overnight by waving a magic wand. The reality with which we have to contend is that one unfortunately does not always have unlimited funds and personnel.

The hon member for Losberg will excuse me if I deal with his remarks with regard to squatting tomorrow, since I am aware of the fact that other hon members also wish to speak on the same subject tomorrow. Permit me merely to make one or two remarks. Since last year the hon member and I have had problems in getting on to the same wavelength with regard to squatters. The figures with which the hon member was furnished do, indeed, as he remarked, relate to those persons living outside section 33 declared areas.

This morning the hon member asked me to give him the figure as defined by the “squatters Act”. I went to a great deal of trouble to accede to the hon member’s request and I went to look up the “squatters Act”. I found, to my dismay, that the word “squatter” did not even appear in the Act, let alone a definition of it. The Act refers to those people who occupy land with or without permission.

It makes sense to me that one should declare a section 33 area for occupation by Blacks. After all, the intention is apparently that they should live in it. We prefer to distinguish between those people living outside section 33 areas as illegal squatters and those people living within them in shacks. They are living in informal housing. One reality which we shall have to accept in this country, is that not every person in this country will be able to live in a brick house.

The hon member also referred to the R10,2 million, but the correct figure, to which the hon the Deputy Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning referred, is R10,533 million. I do not quite understand what the hon member’s problem is with regard to that amount and the amount of R1 million in the province’s budget.

The amount of R10,53 million is an amount which was provided under the appropriation for the Department of Development Planning and which was made available to the province during February this year for the purchase of land and the provision of infrastructure in certain focal areas which had previously been identified. The R1 million under the appropriation for the province was provided for other expenditure with regard to the monitoring of squatters.

The hon member for Kimberley North referred to social workers, and I am dealing with this specifically because personnel are my responsibility. It is unfortunately difficult to recruit the services of social workers, particularly among the ranks of the Black community. The remuneration of this occupational class was increased considerably at the end of 1988 in order to effect an improvement in the recruitment of personnel. The CPA also paid visits to schools and universities in order to stimulate interest in this line of work and to recruit final year students to fill the vacancies. Vacancies were also widely advertised and continuous attention is being paid to the matter. Furthermore, liaison is taking place with the Department of Development Planning with regard to the training and utilisation of personnel with diplomas in social work in order to remedy the shortage.

The hon member for Hawston referred to the salaries and conditions of service of forestry workers. The use of the term “temporary” worker is apparently an unfortunate choice of words because such workers sometimes work for the State for long periods. As in other cases, the province must work within the structures that have been established and unfortunately, a personnel structure has been laid down by the Commission for Administration in which provision has been made for temporary workers. This exists throughout the Public Service and is accordingly applied throughout the Public Service.

The salaries and conditions of service of this class of workers are also being determined on a job-specific basis in order to bring them into line with market trends. As a matter of fact, the starting salaries of general assistants were increased at the end of 1988 on the basis of market research conducted at the recommendation of the Commission for Administration.

In so far as the pension benefits of this class of personnel are concerned, it is true that they do not receive gratuities, but on the other hand it is one of the best schemes in existence. A very low percentage of the contribution is demanded from the worker, which assures him of a far higher percentage of pension at the end of the day. Percentage-wise, he receives a somewhat higher pension than the permanent official. I have already said that there is not, in fact, a gratuity, but the reason why it does not exist is precisely because the scheme has been designed to pay out a necessarily higher pension which will also enable the receiver to benefit by subsequent increases.

All temporary workers with dependants qualify for home loans and subsidies and employees need simply make inquiries in this regard at the offices concerned.

The hon member also referred to the salaries of nature conservation officers. It is not correct that approval was first given to singling out nature conservation officers and that this approval was subsequently withdrawn. The administration has, in fact, made representations to the Commission for Administration in this regard and is in the process of following them up. The CPA is very well disposed towards the matter and is attempting to have a job-specific investigation conducted by the Commission for Administration. However, it is unfortunately dependent on funds that were appropriated for this purpose by Parliament in the 1988-89 financial year. Meanwhile, we are not aware of any large-scale exodus of nature conservation officers to other professions.

The hon member for Kimberley North appealed for development in Galeshewe. I might just tell him that a project in Galeshewe has already been approved by the National Housing Commission for services and 7 140 houses at a value of R22,735 million. The first R100 000 was spent during the past financial year. I was also recently involved in discussions, together with the town council of Galeshewe, with the Development Bank of Southern Africa, and they, too, are rendering assistance there.

The hon member for Diamant expressed his concern at the conditions with regard to land at Galeshewe. I just want to tell him that we are aware of this and that we share his concern. The portion to the north of Galeshewe at present is a very small area and we are looking into the possibility of alternative extensions to the west.

My colleague Mr Nyati, MEC, will probably devote further attention to this, but I should just like to make one or two remarks with regard to the hon member for Claremont. He is unfortunately not here, but for fear that the hon member for Caledon may have been right, and that we will not see him again, he will simply have to read what I have to say in Hansard!

That hon member unfortunately has a reputation of purporting to be the mouthpiece of the people. I now simply wish to convey to him the message which the hon member for Caledon did not convey. The committee of Blacks in Grabouw has said that they would prefer not to speak to him again.

He launched a vicious attack on the mayor of Lingulethu West, Mr Mali Hoza. Let us consider the facts. During the election in October there were 67 850 registered voters in Lingulethu West. At the time of the general election 29 363, or 43,3% of them, cast their votes.

If I remember correctly, the hon member for Claremont was elected to the city council of Cape Town with a percentage vote of less than 15%. [Interjections.] I am amazed that he was able to find it in his democratic heart to take his seat there.

Of these 29 363 votes, 16 739 were cast in favour of Mali Hoza. This figure represents more votes than some hon members have voters.

It is more than you have!

Yes, I have only one.

The candidate from the opposition groups who fared best, received only 7 277 votes. It is certainly not the fault of the Provincial Administration if Mr Hoza’s organisation was better than that of the other groups.

Furthermore, he did not tell hon members how much trouble the Administration took beforehand to conduct a meeting with all the candidates—there were some 40 of them—and to provide them with information and training. He now nevertheless resents the Administration because we are negotiating and holding discussions with the mayor. We are not supposed to take any notice of what 29 363 people in Khayelitsha said; we must listen to what the hon member for Claremont says.

I just want to tell him that we know who his messenger is and that we also know that he was a candidate who lost in the election. You see, hon members, the moment those people to whom the hon member for Claremont usually speaks, talk to the Government or the provincial authorities, they are the troublemakers. I want to ask the hon member what he thinks he is doing. As matters stand, this newly-elected council in Lingulethu West in Khayelitsha has a difficult task. It is interesting that … [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, before continuing my speech this afternoon, I should like to make one comment. I always thought that the most enlightened White community was to be found in the Cape Province. This afternoon the hon the Administrator of the Cape Province proved me wrong. The hon the Administrator said things here which were hurtful. One of these concerned the issue of the beaches. He is insulting our Brown community by having apartheid signboards removed only when there are foreign television cameras on the beach.

[Inaudible.]

Hon members have the assurance of the hon the Administrator that he will not do so again.

[Inaudible.]

No, the signboards must be removed. [Interjections.] The hon the Administrator must not pretend that he is opening the beaches to our people whereas in reality that is not the case. I shall come back to the hon the Administrator later on, but now I want to proceed with my speech.

Firstly I want to speak about hospital and health services. On this occasion I should also like to thank the doctors, as well as the nursing, administrative and paramedic staff who often have to work under difficult conditions. I am deeply concerned by a report which appeared in the Cape Times on 21 March under the heading “Hospital fees triple in Cape” and I quote from it as follows:

In the same newspaper under the heading “Health cuts” it was reported that:

As the hon the Administrator has said, there is a great need in the province for hospital and health services. It is also a fact that the demand for such services is not created arbitrarily, but is determined by actual need.

In the rural areas we have to face the problem of a shortage of employment opportunities. Over and above unemployment, the per capita income is much less than that of people in urban areas which offer larger salaries and ample employment opportunities. Our people in the rural areas can barely afford the present hospital fees, not to mention the increased hospital fees. This will definitely make things very difficult for them. I should like to ask the hon the Administrator to ensure that consideration be given to ways in which special provision can be made for more affordable hospital services for our community. [Interjections.]

[Inaudible.]

I should now like to proceed with my speech. The hon MEC had his turn.

Another matter I want to mention, is the fact that separate services for the different population groups at hospitals entail an additional financial burden. It has been said that the funds that are allocated are not sufficient. Why then are separate facilities created if that is the case? The hon the Administrator is probably going to tell me that there are no separate facilities. The hon MEC has just said that the White maternity section in Kimberley is being converted into a Brown maternity section after which a new maternity section will be built for the Whites.

No, it already exists.

Yes, but they are still creating separate facilities.

They give birth differently!

Yes, that is the next question I want to put to the hon MEC. Do Whites give birth differently?

We can leave the situation in Kimberley as it is.

I now want to come to a sensitive matter. In my constituency an enormous nurses’ home is standing practically empty. Five or six White nurses live there, but the greater part of the home is empty. At the same time our nurses have to board privately. Why can they not be accommodated in that home, or are we once again dealing with the monster of racial prejudice? The hon the Administrator has stated that the administration does not discriminate in respect of facilities and that the underutilisation of nurses’ homes is being investigated. Has no progress been made with the investigation yet?

I also want to draw the attention of the hon the Administrator and his committee to the fact that the facilities at the Beaufort West Hospital are inadequate. I regret that my hon colleague from Beaufort West is not here to mention this. It has happened that patients have had to sleep on the floor due to a lack of space. At times patients who have not yet recovered fully, have to be discharged in order to make room for serious cases. The shortage of toilets and bathing facilities entails a further burden. In Beaufort West there is a hospital with approximately 40 wards and only one bathroom and one toilet. I am not referring to the section for Whites. People suffering from skin ailments and contagious diseases have to use the same facilities. Is that not unfair? In the White section of the hospital, however, quite a few toilet and bathing facilities are standing unutilised. I note that an amount of R826 000 has been allocated for the financial year ending March 1990 and I hope that some of this money will be used for extending and upgrading the existing facilities.

I now want to refer to Merweville, a small village in my constituency. There is no hospital in this village and patients have to be transported over a distance of 88 km from Merweville to Prins Albert in a light delivery vehicle. It is a gravel road which is not always in very good condition. Although there is appreciation for the available transport, it nevertheless is inconvenient in certain instances. The light delivery vehicle is also sent to the scenes of accidents since the nearest ambulance service is in Beaufort West. I also want to point out that the driver of this vehicle cannot give the necessary first aid. I also note an increase of R11,5 million in the subsidy for ambulance services allocated to local governments in the current budget. I hope that the village will now receive a well-equipped ambulance and a trained driver.

During the past few months I have received numerous enquiries from people in my constituency who want to become traffic officers. On enquiry I was told that the posts had been frozen, but it has come to my attention that White traffic officers are still being appointed. It seems that racism also plays a part here.

Hon members spoke about apartheid on the beaches and in hospitals, but I also want to speak about apartheid on the roads. The national road from Cape Town over the Gamka River to Beaufort West, separates the White and Coloured areas and is known as the N1. From there to the bridge at the northern exit of the town, it is called Donkin Street. It is the town’s main street. The greater majority of the town’s businesses are situated along this street and belong to White businessmen. The Brown and Black communities are dissatisfied with the situation. We are all South Africans and why are only we denied the right to trade where we want to? This obvious favouring of Whites is in part the reason that other countries are withdrawing their investments from South Africa. It has also caused an unemployment problem. I should like to know what possibilities there are for our people to trade along the N1 route? [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Newlands dealt mainly with medical services, and those in his constituency in particular. Some of those aspects were dealt with this morning by the MEC, and we will also get further answers to the remainder of the questions in due course.

I should like to talk about drama and music without becoming dramatic or lyrical about it. It was expected that the Chief Director of Capab, Mr Gé Korsten, would resign at the end of this year. The situation has changed, however, and Mr Korsten resigned officially at 31 March 1989. On behalf of this side of the committee I want to express our sincere thanks and appreciation for the strong guiding role he has played in the Cape Performing Arts Board. However, he appears in two Capab productions later this year, namely “South Pacific” in Port Elizabeth and “Die Vrolike Weduwee” in Cape Town. Hon members who would like to see him in those roles, should attend those performances.

He is succeeded by a very capable arts administrator, Mr George Loopuyt. We wish him the very best for a challenging future in the performing arts. Needless to say, at one stage Mr Loopuyt was Capab’s regional representative in Port Elizabeth, where he has made his mark, and under his competent guidance Capab will do well.

The famous prima ballerina Phyllis Spira performed for the last time for Capab last year during the 25th anniversary gala of Capab which was held from 9 to 11 November 1988. That was the end of an era in Cape ballet. It was a highlight in the career of this outstanding artist. I am convinced that the standard which she has achieved will in future be the norm to follow. However, her competent services have been retained for the ballet school.

This year, as usual, provision is again being made in the Budget for the subsidising of the performing arts. The revised amount of R15,9 million budgeted for this purpose last year, is being increased by approximately 15% to R18,3 million. This increase includes inflation. Although this is the maximum amount that could be made available, it is a pity, nevertheless, that Capab should receive a smaller amount than, for example, Napac.

As the performing arts reflect the level of refinement and civilisation of a community, we are nevertheless grateful, because the performing arts has been playing an important role since the earliest civilisations. It offers spiritual entertainment and raises the level of education of every community. I was also particularly pleased to hear about the remarkable increase with regard to attendance. Over the past year it rose from 341 000 to 460 000. Approximately 19 000 more people were exposed to the performing arts. Whilst one is pleased about this phenomenal growth, a large number of people have not yet been exposed to these arts. I trust that in due course a greater number of people from all communities will show an interest in and experience the performing arts.

During the festivities last year there were three gala ballet performances in the Nico Malan, two in the Victorian Opera House in Port Elizabeth and one in the Guild Theatre in East Londen, which could obviously be described as a particular highlight. Apart from this, three other departments, ie music, drama and opera, also had excellent programmes for the festival. No extra money was allocated for these festivities, and Capab deserves praise for the outstanding quality of these performances during their festival year.

Capab also has an important function in the education process of our youth. In this way 500 school and library programmes were presented by the theatrical company. These performances are an investment in the future of performing arts. Love for it is cultivated through exposure.

The Eastern Cape, especially Port Elizabeth, is also appreciative of Capab’s involvement in this area. Despite the fact that the opera house in Port Elizabeth was closed for approximately three months for alterations to the orchestra pit and the ticket office, Port Elizabeth had a particularly successful season. The Philharmonic Orchestra is growing from strength to strength under the able guidance of the violinist Doina Bruno who is a staff member of the University of Port Elizabeth. Although taking the symphony orchestra to Port Elizabeth is very costly, symphony concerts were held there, and the concert “Operatreffers”, with a mass choir of 400, was an excellent choice of programme. The two programmes presented in October, with Francois du Toit and the famous young artist Gerda Troskie of Port Elizabeth as soloist, were also broadcast on the radio. Another innovation which was very successful and which met with great approval was the glittering operatic ball in the foyer.

The coming financial year should produce even greater activity. An opera production for Port Elizabeth is planned for 1990, and I sincerely trust that this will be the beginning of an annual production of this kind in the Eastern Cape. We look forward to the production with great anticipation because this is still an area in Port Elizabeth where there is a need. In order to keep the performing arts alive in Port Elizabeth, Capab is involved in a large number of collaborated productions for which the community is very grateful.

In recent times it has also become clear that the old Post Office complex in Port Elizabeth could be made available in order to meet Capab’s chronic need for space. I understand that the necessary enquiries are being made into the possible use of these premises, and I trust that the outcome of the enquiries will be positive. In order to keep the performing arts within the budgeted income expenses will either have to be cut down, inter alia by closing certain sections, or funds will have to be obtained elsewhere.

In my opinion sponsorship appears to be the solution. Although there are a few sponsorships for cultural activities, these do not in any way meet the real needs. I sincerely trust that there will be a radical change of attitude as far as our businessmen are concerned in order that more money will be made available for this.

South Africa will become spiritually impoverished if we neglect or curtail the arts. We shall have to take a fresh look at how funds could be obtained.

Mr Chairman, I should like to take this opportunity, on behalf of my department, to give an account of the activities of the past year as well as the planning and prospects for the current year with reference to hon members’ speeches in this regard.

I listened very attentively to the speeches of hon members who participated in the debate. I want to say at once that I have great understanding for the fact that it is the responsibility and indeed the duty of hon members to put and promote the political viewpoints of the respective Houses and parties in every forum, from every platform and on every occasion. I fully understand that. Hon members are seeking to score political points. One wants to move to the right, another wants to move to the left and some simply want to bulldoze down the middle. Consequently I also took thorough cognisance of the fact that contradictory demands, aspirations and claims were expressed here. It is crystal-clear that the province cannot satisfy everyone, no matter what it does.

The legislative power which the province has has, however, been transferred to Parliament. The province does not make policy; we simply implement as it is embodied for us in legislation of this organisation of which hon members are all members. The province is therefore committed to exercising its powers, its increasing number of powers, within the ambit of the laws laid down by Parliament. I do not think it is realistic and fair of anyone to expect us to negate, circumvent or reject these laws because the province would then be guilty of insubordination. The members of this institution, which passes the laws, can certainly not insist that we ignore their own laws and prescriptions in exercising those powers which they have delegated to us. I acknowledge that the argument of the hon member for Rylands is correct.

There would seem to be a misapprehension regarding the province’s position in connection with beaches and resorts. By provincial notice the power to reserve beaches in terms of Act No 49 of 1953, the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act, has been delegated to local authorities. At the same time local authorities have the power to exercise supervision and control over beaches in terms of delegated powers. They therefore exercised the reservation, supervision and control over beaches in their own right. The province only took cognisance of the actions. In some cases details of the reservation were not even conveyed to the province.

The province’s inability to give this information on request consequently results in this of necessity having to be cleared up with the local authorities first. In 1987 the delegation in respect of the reservation of beaches in terms of Act No 49 of 1953 was repealed on the understanding that all steps taken in terms of the notice remained valid and in force. The position is therefore that since then the power to reserve beaches has vested in the Administrator in terms of the Act. For the sake of completeness I can merely mention that since 1987 the hon the Administrator has only exercised this power which he is vested in him on one occasion. That was when he changed the reservation of St George’s Beach in Port Elizabeth from White to Black.

As regards the rest of the province, the status quo as it was prior to 1987 applies. In other words the reservations remained the way the local authorities themselves had introduced and applied them. As a matter of fact the province did not prescribe at all. The local authorities therefore have no power now as regards the reservation of beaches. I suppose they can voice an opinion if they want to. However they have no legal force. This is not within the framework of their powers.

Local authorities have retained power over the supervision and control of beaches, but in the exercising of this power they are restricted to the reservations they themselves made up to and including 1987 and any amendment of this or addition to it, as determined by the hon the Administrator. There is nothing sinister, unusual or strange about this. It is a simple delegation practice which is valid throughout the administration and the public service. One is simply compelled to exercise one’s delegated powers within the restrictions of the relevant Act or any other applicable Act.

As regards the implementation of this delegation to local authorities the province does not prescribe how it must be exercised. Every local authority implements it and exercises it in a way, and depending on the circumstances, which in the opinion of every authority is essential and expedient.

Then why do you not recommend that the Act be scrapped?

The hon member for Addo has asked why we do not recommend that the Act be scrapped. I have never received a request from Parliament that people outside should prescribe to it what should be scrapped and what should be embodied in legislation. [Interjections.]

I also want to point out that there is no provision which states that when a beach is reserved this must be done by means of a signboard. In other words, the erection or non-erection of a signboard has nothing to do with the reservation of beaches. [Interjections.] The province does not police its local authorities in this case, or in respect of any other delegation, either. [Interjections.] The relationship between the province and its local authorities is of such a nature, at such a level of trust and on such a sound footing that such steps are not justified at all.

That is not true.

However, if the province becomes aware through repeated complaints that a local authority is acting beyond its power as regards this or any other delegation, the province will not hesitate to take appropriate steps. [Interjections.] Thus far the few complaints which have been received have been referred to those local authorities for urgent attention, and to the best of our knowledge the matters have been resolved satisfactorily. However, local authorities have their taxpayers as watch-dogs to monitor their behaviour. Taxpayers will soon make themselves heard or, even worse, they will soon oust a council which does not come up to expectations, and we have enough examples of that. I need not mention them.

I want to dwell briefly on the reason for the withdrawal of the relevant delegation. As hon members know every square metre of the territory of the Cape is under the control of a local authority and when the divisional councils were abolished in certain areas a decision had of necessity to be taken regarding the disposal of the functions of those divisional councils. Some functions were transferred to the own affairs departments; some were transferred to the province and others to the relevant regional services councils in terms of the provisions of the Constitution. Because we wanted to prevent a strongly politicised and emotional function from falling into the lap of the regional services councils, which from the outset, when the different population groups had to find common ground, would be a source of irritation and could bedevil the process of building good attitudes, it was decided to transfer this function to the province.

That is not true.

Because it was obviously undesirable to repeal the delegation in respect of certain local authorities only, it was consequently decided to repeal it in respect of all local authorities. The future will teach us how to deal with this matter further. Hon members will recall that I referred last year during this debate to the province’s philosophy that if we had sufficient funds to carry out our plan to establish adequate equal facilities where the population concentrations are, the Acts would lose their relevance. [Interjections.] Last year the committee agreed with point 9 (b), which read as follows:

The hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning considered these representations favourably, and succeeded in negotiating an ad hoc allocation of R63,67 million from the Treasury. This amount will enable the province to make phenomenal progress with its objectives. Obviously the development could not be tackled without further ado, because thorough advance planning and co-operation had to take place with local authorities. Consultants had to be appointed. Their planning and proposals had to be checked and in some cases scaled down, and tenders had to be awaited. In virtually all cases, as regards the particulars hon members have at their disposal, the planning is in various stages of development and we expect the provision position to be considerably better by the end of this year. I have waited in vain for a word of thanks in this debate for this remarkable achievement to negotiate this amount to create the facilities to make provision for our people.

To build more separate amenities?

We therefore want to emphasise that hon members must afford us an opportunity to complete the developments which have been started, because we have no doubt that this will rectify the imbalance which may exist. This will to a far greater extent meet the needs of all our people to be able to relax in true holiday spirit. If hon members check the information at their disposal they will know where the money is being spent. [Interjections.]

We requested our local authorities to monitor the position at our beaches and resorts during the past holiday season. The reports we received indicate that three trends were observed. Firstly there is an increasing and clearly perceptible increase in the number of visitors of all races to all our beaches and resorts. Secondly the facilities and amenities we have are hopelessly inadequate. As I have already explained, the impact of the ad hoc allocation was obviously minimal. Considerable and noticeable improvements have taken place since the guideline allocations of the past few years.

The third observation is that only a few incidents of any kind took place, and I am not referring to race at all. If this is the case—I ascribe it to an improvement in the provision of the necessary infrastructure—it proves to me that the province’s approach and deliberate efforts, supported by the Treasury’s financial allocations, is the correct, and as a matter of fact, the only way to address this thorny problem.

I want to refer to the hon member for Britstown. He asked whether a decision had yet been taken on the reservation of beaches in Port Elizabeth, and whether consideration was being given to beaches in the rest of the province. I do not want to express an opinion on the court case issue at this stage. The hon the Administrator dealt with this fully last year. Hon members can look it up in Hansard.

In 1988 the provincial administration appointed the Jacobs Committee of Inquiry to investigate the fair reservation of beaches for all population groups in Port Elizabeth. The said report has been completed and the executive committee has already implemented the priority recommendation of the Jacobs Committee. I am referring to the reservation … [Time expired.]

Business interrupted.

Mr Chairman, most people in our country probably know or would probably recognise the first verse of the Vrystaatse Volkslied:

For me the words of the second verse are even more stirring:

It might be true that our province is the smallest province, with the fewest inhabitants, and that it is probably also the province with the smallest financial capability, but it is equally true that our achievements in the service of South Africa and its people are remarkable. And here I include the uninterrupted stream of products and goods we supply to the rest of Southern Africa.

Besides food, energy is the most valuable commodity in the world. Coal from the Free State flows from Sasolburg, in the form of fuel, to distribution points throughout the country, or is fed into the national Eskom power network in the form of electric power. The hydro-electric power generated at the Hendrik Verwoerd and P K le Roux dams also comes indirectly from the Free State. The establishment of the Lesotho Highlands Water Project will also give further emphasis to the furnishing of this service. Then there is another alternative source of energy, namely uranium. The Free State is by far the largest producer of this product.

†Let us look at another strategic commodity in South Africa, namely water. On the Orange Free State’s northern border is the Vaal River, which supplies essential water to the industrial heartland of the Republic of South Africa, namely the PWV area. The main source of the Vaal Dam is the Wilge River, which rises in the Orange Free State highlands near Harrismith and which has an annual drainage of 780 million cubic metres of water. Further south the Renoster, Vals and Vet Rivers contribute their water which collects in the Bloemhof Dam and is utilised for irrigation lower down the river. The eastern and southern borders of the Orange Free State are largely formed by the Caledon and Orange Rivers which, through the Hendrik Verwoerd Dam, feed the thirsty Fish River Valley and stabilise the P K le Roux Dam so that a flourishing irrigation area has been established on soil which had previously scarcely been utilised.

Many road and rail links between different regions of the Republic of South Africa and other independent states run through the Orange Free State. These links are indispensible for the development of our region.

It is unnecessary to point out that gold, which is largely responsible for the relative prosperity of the Republic, is also mined in the Orange Free State. Eleven Free State mines provide one third of the Republic’s gold production.

Traditionally the Free State is the land of farmers: stock farmers, maize farmers, wheat farmers and many more. The Free State comprises approximately 13% of South Africa’s farming land with about 11 000 farming units. Most of the wheat grown in South Africa is produced here—according to the latest statistics almost 45%. On top of that we produce about 37% of the maize, 37% of the groundnuts, 46% of the sunflower seed, and 50% of the sorghum. Milk is transported daily from the Northern and Eastern Free State to the Witwatersrand. Creameries supply dairy products to the whole country. On Free State soil 25% of the country’s sheep are found and some of the best cattle studs are found in the Central Free State. Fruit and vegetables are supplied in large quantities to various markets from the Eastern Free State and the farms of the Sand, Vet and Riet River irrigation areas.

The secondary and tertiary sectors of the Free State economy are also well-developed. We certainly do not have the biggest factory production in the country, but with the chemical industry in the north and the industries processing agricultural products spread over the province, we make an important contribution towards the secondary sector of the economy. The services and commercial and financial sectors also play an important role in the smooth functioning of our economic activities.

A tourist would not be disappointed should he visit the Free State. The changing topography, the peaceful open spaces and the towns and cities with their different characteristics offer interesting variations to the tourist. For those who are interested in the history of our country the Free State offers much to be seen and visited.

We should, however, also pay attention to the non-measurable spiritual contribution of the Orange Free State. This is the sphere where materialism fades, spiritual matters are examined and evaluated, eternal truths are discovered and norms are set for improving the quality of life. It also concerns the inner strength of the Free State’s people to accept both adversity and prosperity, the willingness to put one’s hand to the plough and to perform the task entrusted to one cheerfully and well. It is not strange, therefore, that the Free State is in reality a major source of well-balanced and motivated citizens—people who are willing to be involved as community and national leaders.

*As I now go on to give hon members a brief synopsis of the most important aspects in my administration’s working programme for the past year, I hope hon members will share my pride in the achievements of the Free State and its people.

As far as Vote 1—General Provincial Services—is concerned, I shall only mention a few aspects. Firstly the Finance Directorate. Two days ago, on 1 April, the Free State was the first of the four provinces to change over to the horizontal financial management system, the so-called FMS system. The structuring of objectives, which has required various adjustments, in contrast to those of the central Government departments, and which differs completely from the previous item structure, was done mainly by the staff of the Finance Directorate and was approved by the Treasury as far back as 2 December 1988. With a view to converting to the FMS system, almost 750 officials have already been trained in this system. As a result of the early conversion to the FMS system, this province has also been chosen as a pilot department for the development and implementation of FMS 2.

The payment of salaries and housing payments, with effect from 1 April 1989, under the ACB and the BDB systems is a further step in the mechanisation that has already been implemented.

As early as January of this year task groups under the direction of the Management Advisory Services Directorate began to implement the function evaluation programme, the FEP, in the Free State, only 17 months after it had been approved by the Cabinet. This programme limits government functions to the barest essentials, so that the involvement of the private sector can be increased and the economy stimulated.

On 27 February 1989 a new electro-mechanical telephone exchange and telephone control system was put into operation in the head office buildings in Bloemfontein. This system monitors all incoming, outgoing and internal calls.

For control purposes there are now monthly statements on which appear the numbers dialled and the length and the cost of every call. A further advantage which this system provides is a conference facility for three people, one of whom can be outside the building complex. The new systems are expected to bring about a saving of 25% on current expenditure.

The Library and Museum Services Subdirectorate has, for the past few years, been particularly involved in providing comprehensive library facilities for those communities that have never, for historical and financial reasons, had such facilities. In addition to the two new library buildings which have been officially put into use at Bethlehem and Allanridge, 18 public library buildings for Black population groups are currently in various stages of planning and construction. During October 1988 a very successful national reading circle seminar was held in Welkom. Well-known writers, and literary and media personalities, took part, and approximately 400 interested parties from throughout the country attended this seminar. As a result of various requests, the Executive Committee has given its approval, in principle, for the reading circle seminar to be held annually.

The Free State library service again took the lead in South Africa during the past year by developing models in terms of which pro-active community information services can be provided by public libraries on a structured basis. Before such services are fully implemented later this year, extended analyses will be made in every Free State community with a view to ultimately compiling comprehensive community profiles.

In October 1988 the Public Resorts Subdirectorate officially opened the Philip Sanders holiday resort for Coloureds just outside Bloemfontein at Mockes Dam. The resort, which cost almost R6,5 million, includes holiday homes, group quarters, a caravan park, a recreation hall and a swimming pool.

Great strides have already been made with the building work on the first proper holiday resort for Blacks in the Free State, at the Allemanskraal Dam, and the project, which will cost approximately R6 million, is expected to be completed by the end of 1989.

The first phase in the modernisation of the Maselspoort holiday resort has been completed. This comprises a new caravan park with the necessary facilities for 153 caravans and 44 caravan sites, each with its own bath and toilet facilities, washing-up facilities and a parking area for day visitors.

The Environment and Nature Conservation Directorate is continuing with development work in provincial nature reserves, particularly with a view to better facilities for visitors. At the Tussen-die-Riviere game farm a rustic camp consisting of six chalets and a shared kitchenliving-room area, has been completed. At the Sterkfontein Dam Nature Reserve 10 chalets, offices and staff dwellings, a caravan park and docking facilities for boat-owners are being built. At the Rusfontein Dam Nature Reserve, offices and housing for staff are being erected, and at the Sandveld Nature Reserve camping facilities have been improved. At the Sterkfontein Dam five farms bordering on the land around the dam basin have been purchased in order to round off the area and develop a fully-fledged nature reserve.

More than 5 000 applications were received for the 150 hunting package-trips which are offered annually by the Administration. There is a great need for hunting opportunities, and the private game farmer should take note of this.

Nature conservation on private land is making exceptional progress with the establishment of various private conservation areas, the so-called “bewaries”. Fifteen “bewaries”, with a total surface area of more than 600 000 ha, already exist in the Free State. These conservationconscious landowners are already beginning to reap the fruits of their efforts, for example there is a decrease in livestock theft in these areas as a result of intensive patrolling by rangers.

The Training Subdirectorate, with a central training committee under the chairmanship of the Chief Director: Administration, has duly formulated the training policy during the past year. The implementation of this policy has already led to a considerable increase in the standard of the services furnished and in productivity.

†The second branch is the Hospital Services branch. An exceptional and noteworthy achievement is the establishment of the vascular unit at the Universitas Hospital. This unit, which undertakes research in the field of blood vessel diseases, operates under the guidance of Prof C J C Nel. He has already received such acknowledgments for his work that the activities of the unit are to a large extent financed by the private sector.

The establishment of facilities for preventative health care receives continuous attention. A recent development is the conversion of a section of the nurses’ home at the Parys Hospital into a community health centre. This centre on the hospital premises makes it possible to provide a comprehensive health service to the community. The centralisation of preventative and curative health services at Parys, and especially the provision of medicine to indigent patients from the hospital pharmacy result in a saving of about R60 000 per month and will serve as a model for the establishment of community health centres in other towns. The ideal is to establish a community health centre in every town in the province.

The considerable population increase in the Orange Free State goldfields which was brought about during the past year by the envisaged opening of five new mines, as well as the abolition of influx control, makes high demands on hospital staff. A serious shortage of funds further contributes to the difficult situation currently experienced in the provision of hospital services in the goldfields.

On the positive side it can be stated that in April this year a start will be made with the erection of a 620-bed hospital for Blacks in Welkom, which, when completed, will considerably relieve the overcrowding presently experienced. An ultramodern hospital information system is at present being implemented in the Bloemfontein complex of academic hospitals. Since 70% of the total expenditure on health care services is in respect of these four hospitals, a system to monitor expenditure on a daily basis is vitally important.

The results achieved by the reorganisation of the out-patient services at the Pelonomi Hospital are also worth mentioning. Approximately 650 outpatients are received here daily. In terms of the new procedure nursing staff first monitor the patients and then direct them, together with their personal files, to the correct clinics. Many patients who were previously in-patients are now treated as out-patients, which results in considerable savings.

The provision of medicine to district surgeon patients places a considerable burden on the health care budget. Methods to achieve savings are therefore continuously investigated. For example, by having arranged that district surgeon patients at Bloemfontein, Welkom and Bethlehem receive their medicine from hospital pharmacies instead of private pharmacies, considerable savings have been effected. Negotiations are currently being conducted with the pharmaceutical association and wholesalers with a view to finding a more efficient and cost saving basis for the provision of medicine to State patients and according to expectations, considerable savings can be achieved in this manner.

*I now come to the Roads Branch. As a result of the flood damage and the ensuing rains, the road building programme in the Free State has had to be considerably adapted. For the 1988-89 financial year the Government has made R19 million available for repair work in order to curtail the damage. After intensive investigations into the conditions of primary tarred roads, contracts amounting to R53 million were granted for the reconstruction and/or rehabilitation of existing roads. Further contracts will still be allocated during the 1989-90 financial year.

In spite of the abnormal weather conditions, approximately 64 kilometres of new tarred roads, 16 kilometres of special tarred secondary roads and 65 kilometres of existing primary tarred road rehabilitation were completed during the year. The implementation of the Lesotho Highlands Water Project has now become a reality, and feeder roads in the vicinity of Fouriesburg, Clarens and Ficksburg, which must be planned and constructed for the scheme by the province, require constant negotiation and consultation. Some are already approaching completion.

As far as privatisation is concerned, an investigation which was ordered by the Cabinet Committee has been completed, and the recommendations have been discussed with the four provinces by the committee and have been accepted. In terms of these recommendations, by 1994-95 75% of the work of the roads branch will be done by the private sector.

The budgeting for roads is already being done on a national basis. This implies that every province gets an allocation from an overall amount which is made available by the Treasury for roads, and that priorities for all projects are determined on a uniform, prescribed basis.

Funds for the Community Services Chief Directorate are provided under Vote 4. A matter which received the special attention of this chief directorate was the establishment of a further three regional services councils and the extension of the Bloemarea regional services council. On 24 January of this year the Executive Committee approved these delimitation proposals, and Ministerial approval is currently being awaited for their implementation. The whole of the Free State is involved in the proposed arrangement. The new regional services councils are expected to be functioning by the middle of 1989.

The establishment of civil defence campaigns in the 74 Black local authorities has received special attention during the past year, particularly during the flood disaster. When certain districts were declared disaster areas, civil defence showed its mettle and gave an indication of how important it was.

Emergency accommodation and supplies had to be provided over a wide area, and in September, when the Pope visited Lesotho, all relevant branches were on standby. In November 1988 the first so-called place of safety for Black children in need of care was opened in the Free State and officially put into operation in Mangaung. Modern facilities are also provided for 178 children in need of care, as well as for 182 juveniles awaiting trial. The project, which cost R6,5 million, should be completed by the end of this year.

The fortunes of the OFS are inextricably bound up with those of the RSA. Therefore we as Free Staters and our traditions are at the disposal of the central Government in order to gain stability and prosperity for our country and to entrench this. We in the Provincial Administration will try to perform the task assigned to us as dutifully and with as much creative vision as possible. We will continue to strive towards a stable, contented population, people who can live and work together in harmony and who find pleasure in a life devoted to performing a service.

Mr Chairman, I am very pleased to follow the hon the Administrator. It is true that the hon the Administrator is known as a very popular speaker, and it will be difficult to maintain the standard he has set. However, I wish to congratulate him on the content of his speech and we look forward to the further contribution that he will make when he delivers his reply later in the debate.

Permit me on this occasion to express our concern and disappointment at the current events in South West Africa. We wish to avail ourselves of the opportunity of expressing our sincere sympathy on behalf of the Free State to those who have had to lay down their lives in that struggle. We trust that there will, in fact, very shortly be lasting peace in that territory for all its people.

Of course, all of us are probably disappointed that this session is not taking place in Bloemfontein. In any event, I do not wish to elaborate on that, because I am satisfied that the hon the Administrator gave an explanation for this in the joint committee yesterday, and he will probably have more to say about it later in the debate. We really are pleased to see that the hon members of the Official Opposition are here this morning, and I hope that they will remain here and that they will not boycott the session as they did last year. I think that this time we have done the boycotting by not allowing the members to travel from here to Bloemfontein at the State’s expense in order to hold a boycott meeting there. It is also true that the recent municipal elections have shown very clearly that the CP is not really a factor in the Free State, because they control a few of the smaller towns. However, in the only large town over which they have obtained control, Welkom, they very quickly had to sound the retreat and the NP has simply had to return and take control of Welkom once again. They have put up equally courageous official candidates in my own constituency. Of the 36 candidates who were to be elected, three were elected. In Harrismith they had five official candidates. Three of them lost their deposits, one retained his deposit by two votes, and the other one did not make it either. That is why I say that the CP is not really a factor. However, I wish to confine myself to a discussion of the appropriation.

When we come to the appropriation for the Free State, it is probably necessary for us to dwell for a moment on the Main Budget which was recently submitted to Parliament by the hon the Minister of Finance. Since the major portion of the revenue of the provinces, including that of the Free State, is derived from the State Revenue Account, this must also be evaluated. It must be evaluated in accordance with the spirit and attitude of the policy objectives in terms of which the Main Budget was introduced.

The main objective of a budget is presumably to balance expenditure and revenue. Unfortunately, this is not so easy in the case of a State appropriation, because there are a great many factors to be taken into consideration when it comes to the determination of revenue, in the first instance, and how that revenue is to be applied in relation to expenditure, in the second instance.

The hon the Minister of Finance himself put it as follows:

Sanctions and disinvestment also leave their mark on the appropriations of the provinces, since they considerably restrict the ability of the Central Government to make funds available.

There are some other very important factors which must also be taken into account when compiling a budget. Firstly, there is the balance of payments and the foreign reserves, and secondly the combating of unemployment and the creation of job opportunities. This is a very important matter, particularly in the times in which we are living. Thirdly, there is the exchange rate, and fourthly, the state of the economy in general. In recent times there has been a substantial upturn in the economy. The growth in the real gross national product amounted to almost 4,5% in 1988.

It is an unfortunate fact that in these times, growth in South Africa has to be restricted and controlled to the extent to which it can be financed by our own sources. Fifthly, there is the position of agriculture. In recent years the State has had to make large contributions to agriculture. Hon members are all acquainted with the various schemes that had to be introduced by the hon the Minister of Agriculture from time to time to enable our farmers to survive in these difficult times of drought. Sixthly, there are the repayments and the servicing of foreign loans—interest on State debt. Hon members are acquainted with the enormous amounts that have had to be set aside. Seventhly, there is State expenditure, to which I shall refer again later, and eighthly there is the gold price. In recent times there has been a sharp drop in the gold price.

The aforementioned are only a few of the factors that can have a real influence on the budget of the country and of the provinces. What I am trying to say, therefore, is that the Budget of the Central Government is an economic and financial policy document which can have a tremendous influence on the country’s economic, political and social position.

This year’s Budget of the Central Government is generally regarded as a very stable, balanced and, if I may use the expression, middle-of-the-road budget. First of all, this Budget is not regarded as an election budget. Secondly, it is regarded as one within which there is very little room to manoeuvre, so that only adjustments within the system may be made. Someone put it like this: “A few ailments cured without a great deal of pain.” Thirdly, this Budget must also be regarded as one of extremely strict financial discipline. The demand for services remains high and the ultimate success of the Budget will depend on the extent to which the Government succeeds in keeping State expenditure within the limits that have been set. This naturally applies equally to the provinces.

To come back to the budget of the Free State, hon members will note that whilst there has been an increase of 15% in the Main Budget, there has only been an increase of 11,9% or R107 million in the Free State budget. The major portion of this, namely R52 million, has been earmarked for the already announced salary improvements, whilst R35 million has been earmarked for increased social pensions. This is therefore an amount of only R20 million, or 2,2% more than was provided last year. It is very difficult to draw comparisons, however, because not only is this the first target budget for the Free State, but the Free State is also the first province for which a target budget has been drawn up. Hon members will note that the Votes have accordingly been reduced from eight to five, and consequently there are no comparative figures available.

Insofar as the revenue account is concerned, the major portion, namely R877 million, or 88,7%, is derived from the State Revenue Fund, and only R113 million, or 11,2%, is being provided from own sources. Among these own sources there are only a few items to which adjustments may be made. There are patient fees, for example. Let me tell hon members at once that patient fees amounted to a total of R38,5 million, as opposed to an expenditure of R430 million on health services—in other words, only approximately 10%. If a 100% increase were to be effected in respect of patient fees, which is surely impossible, this would mean that the actual contribution made by patient fees to the expenditure of hospital fees could amount to 20% at most.

Board and lodging is a negligible item. Motor vehicle licences are a very sensitive matter, because whenever one has an increase in respect of motor vehicle licences in the Free State, one must explain the reasons for it. The increased amounts that had to be paid this year as a result of the levy that has been introduced by the hon the Minister of Finance, has already elicited a great deal of reaction. We are very grateful that insofar as agriculture is concerned, a most accommodating attitude has also been displayed towards our farmers.

These own sources can only be increased through the imposition of great and severe pain. In fact, the challenge to the province lies in maintaining and, where necessary, even expanding and improving the excellent existing services through greater efficiency and by means of the funds available within this target budget. The demand for services will also continue to rise in the Free State, but the province’s ability to remain within the limits of the target budget and still render the necessary services, may, in fact, also be viewed as the Free State’s contribution to the process of reform and renewal, because it is in this that the only hope for the future of our beautiful country and all its people lies.

We in the Free State have been particularly blessed with a wonderful year for agriculture. It is clear that a new spirit of idealism and expectation has taken root among our people. For this reason we can approach the future with confidence.

We also look forward expectantly to the establishment of the regional services councils, because I believe that these hold the promise of great advantages for the development of our province. The Provincial Administration may also be afforded some relief in that certain of the services, such as, inter alia, assistance to smaller municipalities and towns, the maintenance of tertiary roads, and many other services, may be transferred to the regional services councils. This is a new means of exploiting new resources and of effecting new development for our province. As hon members know, the national Road Traffic Act, in terms of which all traffic ordinances of the four provinces have now been brought together in one Act, was recently approved and passed by Parliament. Included in this is provision for a road transport quality system. Once the Act comes into operation, the implementation of this quality system will also become the responsibility of the province. The implementation of this quality system will presumably also entail a larger financial burden for the province, with the establishment of more and better equipped testing centres, as well as the provision of more and better trained inspectors.

I believe, however, that the necessary provision for the province’s needs will be made by the Treasury and that this system will make a large contribution towards considerably improving the quality of traffic on the Free State roads. The Free State is intent on ensuring that the actions of its traffic inspectors will lead to the Free State roads being made safer and more friendly for the road user.

In conclusion, I should like to express my sincere gratitude to the hon the Administrator and hon members of the Executive Committee for everything that has been done during the past year in my constituency as well. I want to extend a special word of thanks to them for the provision of the intensive care unit at the Bethlehem Hospital. I am convinced that this intensive care unit will make a great contribution to health care in that region.

Secondly, I want to say thank you very much for the library which was recently officially opened in Bethlehem, as well as for the extension to the library in Lynchfield. We are convinced that these libraries will make a great contribution to the prosperity and progress of our region.

Lastly, I wish to convey my sincere gratitude to the hon the Administrator, hon members of the Executive Committee, the Provincial Secretary and all his senior officials for their whole-hearted co-operation, as well as for the services which they render to our beloved province, the Orange Free State.

Mr Chairman, it is an exceptional pleasure and a privilege to rise to speak after the hon member for Bethlehem. He will pardon me for not elaborating on what he has already said. I believe that he covered a wide field, and we are very grateful to him for that.

Mr Chairman, allow me, at the beginning of my speech, to convey to you my deepest sympathy as well as that of my hon colleagues on the passing away of your sister-in-law. We wish you, your wife and your family strength and we hope that the Lord will also support you in these days. We request that you convey our token of sympathy to your family.

Secondly I wish to associate myself fully with what the hon member for Bethlehem said when he entered this debate. I want to give my full support to the idea which he expressed about what is happening in the northern part of Namibia. It is a pity that there are people who are behaving irresponsibly during a period when people are searching for peace in all earnestness and honesty, and such progress has already been made that the implementation of Resolution 435 has already started. We are sorry about what has happened, and we sympathise with those who have lost loved ones in the fight for survival in Namibia. Nevertheless we believe that justice will prevail and that the implementation of Resolution 435 will continue.

Furthermore, on behalf of our component, I wish to say this morning that we are sorry that it was not possible for us to sit in the Free State today. Mr Chairman, you know that we were very unhappy with the arrangement that we had to sit here, but we resign ourselves completely to the explanation given by the hon the Administrator. Although we are disappointed, we wish to request that arrangements are made well in advance for next year’s proceedings. We wish to state our case in our province and also settle it there.

In a question on Programme 2: Public Resorts, to which a written reply was given, I asked: (a) how many Blacks and (b) Asians visited the Philip Sanders Resort and (c) whether there was any racial friction during the past year and (d) why Blacks were then turned away from the resort. The reply to these questions was encouraging. The reply to (a) and (b) was that 7 000 Blacks and 2 000 Asians, respectively, visited the Philip Sanders Resort. However, what is tragic and what I want to refer to today, is that according to the reply to (c) there was racial friction between Blacks and Coloureds. In the reply reference was made to a fight which broke out between Coloureds and Blacks on 16 December 1988. To (d) the reply was that no one was turned away from the resort as a result of the colour of his skin. We are thankful for that.

The reply to the (c) part of the question is extremely upsetting. It is proof of the poor relations in our province which we are so proud of. I want to condemn and disapprove of these incidents, which have a negative effect on human relationships, in the strongest terms. It happened during a period when we in South Africa and especially in our province, were working hard to improve human relations positively and to break down the walls of separation and partition between individuals, groups and communities.

In our province the Administrator and his officials are breaking down the walls of suspicion, selfishness and racial discrimination. These walls were created by the ideology of apartheid which our people in South Africa were exposed to.

Is it still necessary for me to spell it out to the hon members of this committee this morning how much sorrow and isolation of people and communities apartheid, segregation, the division of people on the grounds of the colour of their skin, or call it what you will, has caused and how it unfortunately was the product of growing hatred between people, groups and communities which came to a head at the Philip Sanders Resort on 16 December 1988? We cannot condone these things. It is a slur on the name of our lovely province. It is not only a slur on the name of our lovely province, but also a slur on the name of this lovely country of ours in which we live.

In our residential areas I daily see the real walls, concrete walls which people construct around their plots. It is a typical symbol of the isolated existence which we lead in this lovely country of ours. This isolated existence is the result of the policy of racial discrimination and isolation which certain parties want to implement in our lovely country once again. At a time when people should come to one another, there are still organisations and parties which speak about dividing people and keeping people who belong together away from one another. At a time when there is a change in the direction of unity, there are people who still say such things. We are so glad that we do not have a Boksburg and a Carletonville in the Free State, but that we rather have the opposite there.

The unfortunate incident which took place on 16 December 1988 at the Philip Sanders Resort, must teach us the following lesson—and I hope that it is also a clear lesson to certain parties in this Committee: Peace is not brought about by keeping people away from each other. That kind of false peace can only be an armed peace, which is nothing but a dangerous time-bomb which can explode at any time with catastrophic results for the peaceful co-existence of people in this country.

I believe that real peace will be found to the extent to which people—with all their shortcomings—accept one another in South Africa, and display a genuine interest in one another. The alternative is a repetition of 16 December 1988. I believe that if our people come together and if we build bridges to bring people together, we shall be contributing to the building of bridges for peace and peaceful coexistence in South Africa.

We live in a country that is constituted in a unique way. I have said it so many times, and I want to repeat it today. It is a country with a rich variety in many respects: rich in plants, people and animals—you name it. God placed us on this subcontinent to find one another and to build a South African nation here—one nation which will be a symbol of true peace and prosperity to the world. We live in a country in which the various communities live and work together, and yet everyone lives in a world of his own. We live and work in one country, but in reality we are living at cross purposes. Allow me, once again, to bring it to the attention of the Committee and to spell it out. The ultimate battle to free the country from invasion by forces that want to oppress our country, is not an external battle. We shall not fight that battle on the borders of South Africa. We shall have to fight the battle for survival internally by communicating with one another to prevent a repetition of 16 December 1988 in the Free State.

I repeat: If there is no spontaneous communication among people, our fight for survival is lost. I do not want us to use this opportunity to indulge in petty politics. Let us rather use this opportunity to serve our beloved province by working together and reaching consensus in the interests of co-operation between the people and groups of this lovely province of ours.

That is why, in conclusion, I want to impress on hon members that a general and positive attitude will have to be revealed in our attitudes to one another. The Whites must, to a lesser degree, see the Coloureds and Blacks as potential enemies. We must get rid of this idea. In this way the Coloureds and Blacks will also accept the Whites as fellow South Africans, as fellow-builders of this lovely country, a country which we can develop together into the best in the subcontinent of Africa.

Today we are all working and striving for the era after apartheid, and we believe that, in that post-apartheid era, we wish to have a world in which racial harmony will prevail. Here in the Free State we have, I believe, the potential to be the founders of such an existence. With men such as the hon the Administrator and his officials I believe that we are on the right track.

Allow me to conclude by thanking the hon the Administrator and his MECs for what they have meant to our people during the damaging floods.

Our people are the people who suffered the most, and every time I looked for the hon MEC Mr Relly, I heard that he was busy in the Southern Free State. This was also the case with Mr Mokotjo. What the hon member did for and meant to us, speaks volumes. The foundation for racial harmony was also laid here. Aid was given to everyone and colour did not play a part. We want to thank the hon member for what he meant to us. We also want to thank him for the housing improvement projects which he launched. I shall say more about this later when I re-enter the debate.

Mr Chairman, allow me, as did the hon member for Southern Free State, to express my sympathy on the loss suffered by you and your family. On behalf of the CP I express the hope that your family will find consolation.

On behalf of the CP I also want to express sympathy to the next-of-kin and families in South Africa and South West Africa who have lost loved ones in the events of the past four days in the north of South West Africa. We also hope that these people will find consolation and that the hostilities will not last much longer.

I want to say that I listened very attentively to what the hon member for Southern Free State said. I realised that he was very serious when he said that he wanted peace in South Africa and harmony between the different peoples in South Africa, and that he was upset about what had happened in the Free State on 16 December 1988. I want to tell the hon member that with the same degree of seriousness with which he is pleading for peace in South Africa, the CP is also pleading for peace in South Africa.

If we study the history of mankind we find that for many years there were bloody battles between the different nations in Europe which were all joined together to form one large empire, and by means of bloodshed and war they sorted out the empire until each nation had its own country. That is what the CP stands for too—to achieve peace. The history of mankind teaches one that one does not achieve peace by incorporating people in the same structures, the same country and the same political systems.

In Cyprus there was conflict between the people. That conflict was not resolved as long as the people were in the same structures. It did not abate either; it intensified. Peace was only achieved when provision was made for the differences in culture which existed between people. [Interjections.]

South Africa’s people are no different to people in the rest of the world. I want to say that there is not a single example to be found in the world where up to today mankind has been able to share power fairly. There is no such example. Up to now man has not been able to share power fairly. This is the basis of the conflict between people, when they are forced to share power.

I am not trying to be funny, but I want to tell the hon member for Southern Free State in all seriousness that those events on 16 December did not take place in Boksburg. They took place where a different policy is being applied to the one applying in Boksburg. Serious consideration must be given to this. Peace is being sought, and I accept the hon member’s bona fides. However, we disagree on the way in which the problem is going to be solved in South Africa.

We are not going to achieve it by means of separation!

I want to say with the greatest seriousness that I believe that unquestionably the solution in South Africa will not be found by adopting political power-sharing or integration of any kind. It will only be found by adopting the policy of the CP.

I want to go further and tell hon members that if the present policy is continued with and if history takes the same course it has in the rest of the world, the situation will sort itself out but it will happen the hard way. It will happen in a way we all want to avoid. It will happen in the way it happened in Europe. The peoples of South Africa will sort the matter out the hard way. It is our task to prevent it happening in that way in South Africa.

The question is how you are going to succeed in doing that!

I should like to thank the hon the Administrator for the review he gave. I also want to ask and suggest that, in order to have a meaningful debate on these matters regarding the Free State, we should get the information earlier, if this is at all possible for the joint committee and the people responsible for it. If we could receive the information earlier, for example the replies to the questions which we only received yesterday afternoon, we could have a more meaningful debate on this than when we get the information so late.

I should like to link up with what the hon the Administrator said. He sang the praises of the Free State, which is the right thing to do. I want to tell him that there is of course tangible proof that the Free State is reaching great heights. Recently the Free State won a cricketing trophy, but what is more they also gained another major victory. Last Saturday the Free State inflicted a tremendous beating on Stellaland. It takes a man to do that. It seems to me the Free Staters are recovering. [Interjections.]

You got a bit hurt, didn’t you?

Yes, I did get a bit hurt, but I do not begrudge the Free State this. I would like the Free State to win the cup and not the Western Province. [Interjections.]

I want to come to the speech by the hon member for Bethlehem. The hon member for Bethlehem has again come along and, as is typical of the NP, made a number of statements and skirted delicately around the truth. He tried to promote his cause by resorting to propaganda. He said, for example, that the CP was not really a factor. I want to tell him that the CP is quite satisfied with the progress it has made in the Free State. [Interjections.] At the next election the CP will gain the majority in the Free State.

I want to refer to the glib statements the hon member made. He praised the Main Budget, whereas the Main Budget is an indictment. He is a witness to the deterioration in South Africa. Listen to what he said. He said the Main Budget attested to extremely strict financial discipline. A country which spends more and which has a current expenditure which exceeds its revenue has no financial discipline at all. This is the greatest indictment one can get, but the hon member boasted and said it attested to strict financial discipline. He said this although the current expenditure of the State exceeds its revenue. This attests to extravagance. [Interjections.]

Was it different in the past?

This has only been the case for the past four or five years. For five decades in South Africa the revenue of the State was far larger than the current expenditure. Even the capital works were financed from the revenue and only a part was borrowed. It is only now, since the NP has made such a mess of South Africa that our current expenditure is higher. I want to ask that hon member, seeing that he is a farmer, how long he would be able to continue farming if his expenditure on the farm was higher than his income every year. How long would he be able to carry on? [Interjections.]

A country is in precisely the same position as an individual. All that happens is that a country does not go bankrupt, but an individual does. A country does not go bankrupt, but this is reflected in its rate of exchange. That is why South Africa’s rate of exchange has declined so much and is still declining. It is because we are working with a deficit. [Interjections.] That is why the hon member came here with glib clichés and tried to skirt around this. Precisely the opposite is true.

The opposite is true, as regards the South West Africa issue too. We were told that an era of peace had begun, with spring flowers on the trees and a brighter sun dawning. But what happened within the first four days? The biggest attack in 23 years took place. That is what the peace looks like, but it is being presented as an achievement. All the NP’s failures and the critical situations it has caused in South Africa are presented by it as achievements, but in the meanwhile our fatherland is deteriorating.

For that reason I want to confine myself today to community services and Black local authorities, and I think it is appropriate to ask how matters stand with local authorities in the Black towns of the Free State, and with the administration of Black affairs in the Free State. The fact of the matter is that Black local authorities in the Free State, like in the rest of South Africa, are not functioning effectively, and I wonder whether there is a single one which is functioning effectively in the Free State. What is more there are many Black towns in the Free State in which the services are collapsing.

Probably the main reason for this is the political reform policy of the Government which is not keeping pace with realities. The Government implemented a political policy which was inappropriate for those communities. The political reform policy which the Government implemented had certain economic, social and other consequences which were never taken into account, but which are now coming to the fore.

When did this start?

I want to tell hon members that one of the big factors which had an effect on the local government and management of Black people in the Free State, was the abolition of influx control. The abolition of influx control resulted in the number of residents in towns in the Free State increasing tremendously. Hon members cannot get away from this. I deduce from the questions being answered that there are 15 000 squatters in the Free State. I think this is probably a very conservative estimate.

What must be taken into account is that large numbers of people have gone to the existing towns but that there are no employment opportunities for them. This is a burden on the services which must be provided because more services must then be provided. What is more, the community must support the people and must also pay the taxes. Because of all these factors this cannot happen and the situation is deteriorating dramatically.

Where did those people come from?

I am telling the hon member that it is since influx control was abolished. Those people earned a living and had a place to live where they were. The NP lured them here under all manner of pretexts and now there is no work here. The inadequate facilities must now bear the burden.

There is another phenomenon which has taken place. The community councils have been converted into local authorities without the norms of viability being applied. I want to ask whether property tax and improvement tax are being levied and whether the normal things are being done which a local authority does. The NP introduced local government but did not look at the foundation. It did not exist.

Next came the transfer of functions from the Central Government to the provincial government without the full implications of this being realised. The Central Government did something and suddenly it was transferred to the provincial government which had never been entrusted with these tasks, but was suddenly saddled with this thorny problem.

The abolition of the development bodies created vacuums. No provision was made for replacements for them. Legislation was passed in respect of various aspects of local government, which was not at all appropriate. In addition there is a lack of co-ordination in the provinces and also between the provinces, but there is also a shortage of staff because these matters were not thought out and planned, but were done precipitately.

There are now 74 local authorities in the Free State, as the hon the Administrator told us this morning. In 1987 there were 70. At that stage only 21% of them had a chief executive officer. There were 240 posts for heads of departments. Of these only 17 had been filled. Can hon members expect there to be any suggestion of efficient administration? This cannot work.

The effect of this is of essential importance to the financial position. I want to tell hon members at once that it is very difficult to ascertain from the information at our disposal what precisely the financial position is and how matters stand in the local authorities. For that reason I would be glad if the hon the Administrator or his MECs could give us greater clarity on this.

As I see the situation it has been said here in reply to a question that between 1986 and now bridging finance has totalled R164 million. When I correlate this with the budgets for the past few years it tallies. Approximately R164 million has been voted for bridging finance.

Now the question is what this bridging finance is. What function does it perform? What does it do? What does it finance? This is clearly set out in two places in the questions. If Black local authorities experience cash-flow problems—in other words problems with current expenditure—owing to arrears rentals and municipal services, which means that operating expenditure cannot be paid in full by these councils, applications can be made to the respective provinces, on the basis of prescribed procedures, for bridging finance. From this I deduce—I would like to be corrected if I am wrong—that bridging finance is there to finance current expenditure, deficits budgeted for, service levies, rentals and current expenditure which cannot be financed because the revenue is not being collected—that bridging finance is therefore used to finance current expenditure.

The fact of the matter is that, according to the replies which the hon the Administrator gave to the question, the deficit on this current expenditure is increasing. In 1986 the deficit was R1,9 million. On 30 June 1987 it was R6 million, and on 30 June 1988 it was R15 million. What I find upsetting is that when one studies these matters it would seem as if these deficits were estimated after the bridging finance had been taken into account. This was the deficit after bridging finance.

We asked here what the revenue and expenditure of the local authorities were on 30 June 1986, 30 June 1987 and 30 June 1988. The answer was that on 30 June 1986 the revenue was R26,9 million and the expenditure R28,8 million—a loss of R1,9 million. The following year the figures were R58 million and R64 million. The year after that they were R73 million and R89 million. The total revenue for those three years was R158 million, and the total expenditure was R182 million—a difference of R23,9 million. I submit it seems as if the bridging finance, the amount of R164 million, has already been taken into account here.

If I take another look at the figures it seems to me as if only about 20% of the current expenditure is being financed by the population. Capital works must also be provided for and budgeted for. Now the important question is where the capital comes from for the capital services and capital works provided in the towns. Does it come from the regional services council? Is it obtained by means of loans? It is not at all clear and not possible to ascertain where the funds for capital come from. That is why I say the situation is deteriorating dramatically and these matters will have to be investigated.

The cause of this is the Government’s policy. This is the obvious cause. There is no suggestion of real, true community development in the Free State—where the community itself makes a contribution by the sweat of its brow, and because of its dedication and love for its people and its community, for the purpose of saving and then developing things to great heights. There is no suggestion of that and that is why I want to tell hon members again that there will be a suggestion of that. It will only come into its own when hon members cease brushing aside the CP and trying to belittle it, and when the realities are faced and it is realised that peoples can only mature through their own endeavours—and not by means of hand-outs—and that we enable people to develop the resources entrusted to them to great heights through their own endeavours. Only when the policy of partition has been implemented in South Africa, when every people has its fatherland … [Interjections.]

What about the costs?

The costs are lower than now in South Africa. When the hon member talks about costs as a factor, I want to tell him that he is saying that the right thing cannot be done because it is too expensive. Let us do the wrong thing and go under. That is precisely what the hon member is saying. The costs are lower than the costs we have today in South Africa. The norms being applied by the Government are the wrong norms. A norm has been applied to these local authorities which is not applicable, whereas if the correct norm were applied … [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, we are privileged here this morning to have the Orange Free State provincial budget debated in the House of Delegates. I wish to take the opportunity of welcoming the hon the Administrator, members of the Executive Committee and other hon members who have come to listen to the budget debate. I also want to compliment the hon the Administrator on his opening speech, in which he welcomed people to the Free State to enjoy the benefits the Orange Free State has to offer. I only hope that this is a reality insofar as all population groups are concerned. The hon the Administrator will agree with me when I say that the Indian community in South Africa had for many years lost a birthright, that was the privilege to travel and domicile in the Orange Free State. Now that we are privileged to some extent we are very surprised that whilst the Provincial Council is a strong arm of the Central Government, with handpicked members serving in the council, progress in the sense of reform is taking place at a snail’s pace.

I make particular reference to the fact that in the area of Harrismith, set aside for Indian occupation in terms of the Group Areas Act, there are 52 sites that could very well be serviced and put into operation for Indian housing. Unfortunately there is a certain amount of red tape that is at the moment a matter for concern. I think the Provincial Council is not playing the game and expediting the progress of proclaiming these sites for Indian housing. The hon the Deputy Minister of Local Government, Housing and Agriculture in the House of Delegates made representations in this regard to the hon the Administrator some time ago. We are still awaiting the hon the Administrator’s reply in this respect. We call on the hon the Administrator to expedite this as a matter of urgency. There is a dire need for housing for Indians who are employed in Harrismith and a number of Indians who are employed in Qwaqwa.

I compliment the town council of Bethlehem on the hand of friendship they extended to the House of Delegates in offering us opportunities by opening central business districts to the Indian community as well as identifying pockets of land for Indian housing. Unfortunately it is not practical that offers of that nature are made when these pockets of land for Indian housing are without the other necessary facilities, particularly educational facilities. In this respect a call was also made to the hon the Administrator to share educational facilities, but as yet we have had no reply.

We are not responsible for education.

The hon the Deputy Minister of Local Government, Housing and Agriculture in the House of Delegates had discussions with the hon the Administrator and he indicated to me that he was still waiting to hear what he had to say in this respect.

I would like to touch very briefly on certain other issues regarding residential areas and the opening of central business districts in all of the larger towns in the OFS. It is the Government’s policy as well as the Provincial Council’s policy, because they are the strong arm of the Central Government. If it is the policy of the Central Government to offer opportunities on an equal basis to other groups, then the Provincial Council should have a very big hand in opening all other facilities, including recreational, educational, housing, industrial and other necessary facilities for the development of the communities of South Africa.

The Indians have a proven record in Natal as an industrious group of people who have provided job opportunities for all groups of people. At the moment they are providing job opportunities for the Blacks in Qwaqwa, which is a homeland created by the Government. It is also their privilege to assist the OFS in the development of industrial growth.

In this respect I wish to make this request to the hon the Administrator and his Executive members to offer incentives to Indian entrepreneurs from other parts of the province, such as special reduced rates for industrial land, so that they may be encouraged to develop industrial resources as they have done in the other provinces. This will provide job opportunities for people of colour as well as for the White community. There are also many Whites living in the OFS. Why should they be deprived of this privilege which can be offered by the Indian section of the business community?

At this moment we have been deprived of our birthright. We know very little of what is happening in the OFS, but the fact that we are now privileged to exercise our rights there leaves us with very much yet to achieve. There is not very much which I could present to the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee, but I would like to plead for the opening of all facilities and job opportunities, especially those which are under the control of the Provincial Administration.

Particularly in the field of employment for Indians—there are not many Indians in the OFS—we should look at opportunities available in hospitals. There are talented people in Natal and the Indians have played a very important role in all of the provincial hospitals in that area. I am sure that we will be able to utilise people of talent in the field of clerical employment as well. In the business sector we have skilled people such as technicians, computer programmers, electricians and highly qualified clerks who could help the OFS in its development.

We are looking forward to all red tape being set aside. I have great faith that the Provincial Council, whilst it is the strong arm of the Central Government, will be able to set the pace. The progress which has been made thus far is encouraging and we would not like to retard the progress which has been made. Opposing forces use this as an argument to further their own aims and objectives and I think that if the provincial councils were to lack essential provisions, they would certainly be a helping hand to the opposing forces in propagating their cause.

Finally I would like to call upon the hon the Administrator and other members of the Executive Committee to extend, as a matter of urgency, their hand of friendship and goodwill to the Indian community—especially business entrepreneurs—and to meet them personally to find out what their cause is and how best they can help in the provision of employment for the Black, Coloured and Indian communities in the Orange Free State. I am sure that there are many business people with enough financial resources to be able to play this vital and very important role.

I hope that the Administrator and the Executive Committee will not lose sight of the fact that there are other basic requirements in the way of recreational facilities and that these should be opened to all race groups so that they can be enjoyed on equal terms.

Mr Chairman, I want to begin by referring to the Chief Directorate: Works. The work given out to contractors and to firms of consulting architects, quantity surveyors and engineers made up 95% of the total, the highest percentage ever. Only 5% of the budget is spent by the directorate’s own staff on the planning, control and administration of projects. The extent of the activities of the Chief Directorate: Works appears from the fact that more than 1 000 different building projects, varying in value from R5 000 to R70 million, are being carried out at the same time, from the stage where the need for the project is being determined up to the final stage, when the project is handed over to the client department. In addition, approximately 5 000 services a year are being dealt with on an order basis.

The township of Hendrik Verwoerd Dam is administered by the Chief Directorate: Works. The Provincial Administration has been negotiating with the Department of Water Affairs for several years with a view to acquiring this land so that a proper local authority can be established for the township. I am in a position to state today that these negotiations have now reached the stage where the land has been bought by the administration. It will now be possible to establish a proper local authority.

We have bought 394 hectares as commonage for the village for an amount of R78 801. The commonage is very important, of course, because a cemetery has to be provided there for the Whites as well as the Coloured population and the Black community. We cannot have one out in the veld. There has to be a proper place for it.

†A new milestone was reached with the purchase of the land adjoining the Sterkfontein Dam. This implies that a new nature reserve has been created. As soon as a nature reserve is established, it must be fenced in. In the current financial year R435 000 is provided for this purpose. Depending on various factors, for instance topography, the current cost of a gameproof fence amounts to between R10 000 and R15 000 per kilometre. The fencing of the Sterkfontein Reserve will be put out on contract.

In the Willem Pretorius Game Reserve we provide for an amount of R120 000 for the construction of roads on the southern side of the dam. This will open up that beautiful nature environment for all visitors, including those to the resort for Blacks.

In the Verwoerd Dam Reserve we are going to improve the roads with an amount of approximately R75 000. This will also open up to a greater degree to the public this beautiful and scenic area with its large variety of game.

The number of game to be hunted during the coming year through our system of private hunting is 1 361. The number of game to be sold live amounts to 1 346. The total is thus 2 707. The expected income is in the order of R800 000.

*The hon the Administrator referred in his speech to the development of public resorts. I want to give this Committee a brief indication of the popularity of our public resorts. The inland resorts are definitely becoming more popular. In the 1988 calendar year, 360 377 persons visited the four White resorts in the Free State. During school holidays and over weekends, the demand for accommodation exceeds the supply, and about 800 families a month, on average, had to be turned away.

The Philip Sanders Resort for Coloured people is proving to be equally popular, although it has only been in use for a little longer than a year. During the past calendar year, 22 560 holidaymakers visited this attractive resort with its melodious name.

The amount that has been appropriated for resorts this year, is R211 000 less than the amount in the 1988-89 budget, in spite of inflation, cost increases, salary increases and new services such as the Philip Sanders Resort. From this it may be inferred that we have not been able to make any provision in the main budget for the resort for Blacks at Allemanskraal Dam to be put into operation during this financial year.

†At the outset I wish to draw the attention of hon members to the fact that the total amount requested for health services is R430 818 000. According to estimates the total income will amount to R 40 623 979. This implies that income will not even be 10% of expenditure. This is a very grave problem which should definitely be addressed by this Committee. Even if we should raise hospital fees—that is patient fees—by as much as 100% we would according to estimates collect only approximately R80 million. This is still only 20% of the expenditure.

We render health services to thousands and thousands of persons of all population groups who cannot or do not pay. A large percentage simply cannot afford expensive health care. My appeal is that health care should be depoliticised and that all of us should jointly deliberate to find a solution for this burning issue. I will gladly listen to suggestions or possible solutions from hon members in this respect.

*Unless the people of South Africa manage to lower the birth rate and reduce the population increase to acceptable levels very soon, South Africa is doomed. The country will sink into the depths of poverty, unemployment and low standards of living, even if we eventually manage to establish the best constitutional model in the world.

With the means available to us and under the excellent guidance of the hon the Minister of National Health and Population Development and his Ministry, we in the Free State are trying to do something in a modest way. It is certainly not enough, but at least we are trying to do something.

Our family planning campaign has two legs, namely counselling and the appropriate clinical services. In the first place, counselling is provided by 234 counsellors in Black residential areas, at businesses and factories and on farms. They speak English and Afrikaans as well as South Sotho, Tswana, Zulu and Xhosa. In the second place, counselling is provided at our bigger hospitals such as Pelonomi, Phekalong at Bethlehem, Boitumelo at Kroonstad, as well as the hospitals at Virginia, Welkom and Parys and the clinics in Botshabelo. During the 1988 calendar year, 96 883 people were involved in these counselling sessions. The counselling deals mainly with subjects such as family planning, sterilisation, immunisation, hygiene and sexually transmissible diseases, especially Aids.

The total number of staff employed by Health Services in the OFS at the moment is 14 816. Of these, 7 569 belong to the nursing component. We must appreciate our nurses and constantly strive to improve their conditions of service and the circumstances under which they work. Without these people, our doctors and the administrative staff we could not render a health service to the inhabitants of our province. I hope that in making this appeal, I have the unanimous support of hon members of the Extended Public Committee.

Mr Chairman, I am very sorry to hear of your personal adversity. We wish you everything of the best.

This is a very special day, as far as I am concerned, since we both represent the same constituency and I am able to speak here today under your auspices and your guidance. Apparently we are not the only people who represent the same constituency here today. A prospective representative of that constituency is also represented on this Committee. [Interjections.]

I initially came here under the supposition that when we came along here to speak, we would not speak about the macro-politics of South Africa, but about the problems and the employment of funds in the Free State. Unfortunately, when I took my seat here today, I was reminded of the strange phenomenon that manifests itself there in the North West, the heartland of the “homeland". In those irrigation lands, in the vineyards along the rivers, there is an enormous machine called a bird-cannon. Periodically, without any specific timing, and without being aimed in any specific direction, it simply goes “boom”—in no particular direction whatsoever.

This morning we witnessed a similar event here. Whilst we were sitting here these “booms” suddenly came at us from all directions. I am specifically referring to the fact that we got certain people to speak about the Free State … [Interjections.] Some of us are deficient in that regard, but let us rather leave it at that.

We have a problem, because we get people who have no idea of what is going on in the Free State to come and speak about the Free State. They then make political statements which are so far-fetched that not even those with doctorates in that party can overcome the factual obstacles for them.

They tell us that in Cyprus Greeks and Turks have been separated, and that since that separation took place, there has no longer been any fighting in Cyprus. Apparently the hon member did not give us the benefit of all his knowledge—which means he is a crook—or he is not in possession of the knowledge, which means …

Mr Chairman, on a point of order: May the hon member refer to the hon member for Lichtenburg as a crook?

Order! Yes, I heard the hon member saying that. I was on the point of calling him to order.

Mr Chairman, may I address you on this issue?

Order! No.

Mr Chairman, I must point out to you that if you were to read my Hansard, you would note that I did not say that he was one. I said that either he was a crook or …

Order! No, the hon member must withdraw that unconditionally.

Mr Chairman, I withdraw it, but then I must tell you that he has no knowledge of the matter; he lacks any knowledge of the matter. His problem is that he neglected to tell us that if Turkey withdrew its guarantee in regard to the Turkish Cypriots, those Greeks would stampede right over them in a day.

There is something else he neglected to do, however. He told us today that the people of Europe tore each other apart in a bloody struggle. He said that if we did not want to do that, we should rectify these matters constitutionally.

I am a Free Stater. The Free State produces more than 50% of this country’s grain. In the Free State the ratio between people of colour and Whites is the lowest in the country. In my specific constituency we have 7% Whites as against 93% people of colour. In that gargantuan effort at tearing asunder or tearing apart, who is going to be torn apart? Do hon members of the CP sitting here today want to tell me that we must give the Free State, and more specifically the Heilbron constituency, to the Black people because there is such a small percentage of Whites there?

You are going to be yanked out of Heilbron!

Oh, Mr Chairman, let me tell you that I challenge any of these CPs to come and say honestly that in the Free State they would implement partition and remove the group which is in the minority there, ie the Whites. Not only would they have to get me off my farm; the White South Africa that remains would lose half its grain. What would become of it?

To pursue matters further with the hon member, however, let me say that he comes along here today and says that the Budget—which the hon member for Bethlehem rightly said was an exceptional Budget under the circumstances—is an indictment of the NP’s method of governing this country. Last year, in connection with the R400 million scheme, the same hon member said the following: “Dis ’n gogga; dis ’n grap; dis niks werd nie.” In contrast he posed the so-called consortium of CPs, banks and universities.

Where did I do that?

In the House of Assembly.

That is not true! Bring me the proof!

Mr Chairman, the fact of the matter is that I make a special point of getting hold of that hon member’s speeches; I keep a record of them in my office.

What was the eventual outcome? The effect of the R400 million scheme was that this year the whole of the Western Transvaal could burgeon and was able to have record crops. Where is the consortium?

The analogy I want to draw is that at that stage we introduced the R400 million scheme, and also other aid schemes for farmers, when the farmers could not cover their running costs from their income. They were helped by the State to cover their costs. They sold their capital assets, destroyed their herds, in order to cover their costs.

Are we in South Africa not in precisely the same situation, a situation in which we must liquidate our capital assets in the drought conditions in which we find ourselves today?

What are these drought conditions in which we find ourselves? Hon members must remember that in the course of the five years between 1984 and this year’s budget, the 1989-90 financial year, South Africa had to repay a net amount of R20,2 billion in foreign loans. Take that amount of capital out of a country and see what happens to that country. One would be faced with an unedifying situation, and in spite of this I challenge hon members who are so clever when it comes to the economy, but apparently do not read the documents they should read, to look at South Africa’s public debt and the national debt. They compare favourably with those of any country in the world. I am not only speaking about the underdeveloped Third World countries, but also about developed countries. The public debt position of those countries can be compared with that of our country. On the merits of its payability in terms of its exports, its gross national product and all those figures, at this stage South Africa still proves to be one of the best countries, and all this in spite of the situation in which we find ourselves, ie that of having had to repay more than R20 billion over a period of five years, even though we have suffered foreign exchange losses of R10 billion, and in spite of the fact that political pressure had forced down our exchange rates. If we were to assess, in round figures, the losses we have suffered over the past five years as a result of political pressure from abroad, we would arrive at a figure of approximately R30 billion.

Now these clever gentlemen come along to our constituencies and say that pressure from abroad cannot influence us. We shall negate or ignore overseas countries in our decision-making process. I want to state today that hon members of the CP do not present the voters with the truth when they speak about the finances of this country, about the pressure that is being exerted and about the possibility of partition.

Likewise the hon member for Lichtenburg is deficient in his knowledge of Black affairs. I deduced that from his speech this morning in this Committee. I have great respect for him as an erstwhile Minister who did, in fact, deal with these matters. I do, however, want to ask the hon member the following question: How many times, during the past five years, has he visited his Black urban areas?

Many times!

How many?

More times than you did!

As in all other matters, the hon member for Lichtenburg’s word is again being called into question. I want to support my statement with the following contention. If he had done what I recommended, he would have seen two things. Firstly he would have seen that the squatters were not squatting in the town, but in new areas adjacent to the town. Secondly he would have seen that the poor conditions prevailing in the local towns were not conditions which had arisen today. The ruts in the streets in the Black towns originated before I came to this Parliament. The rubbish-dumps there have also been in existence for a long time now. They also originated before I came to this Parliament, and I have been here for eight years now. I want to tell the hon member that we should be honest with each other about the things we are discussing. We must not make use of fabrications. The only reason I am adopting this standpoint today is because my fellow-Nationalists and I cannot afford to have this nonsense propagated in the Free State without speaking about it.

Let me tell the hon member that he made a very singular statement. I want to mention this before my time has expired. He said that we could not give the Black people charity. We should enable them to use their own “sweat capital” to promote their own interests. I think his stock expression is “om hulself aan hul eie hare op te tel”.

In what way does one enable someone to become financially independent? In what way does one enable him to do so? One gives him a sum of money to start a business so that his business can be taxed. Then we cannot speak of White money, in spite of the fact that their own hon leader did, in any case, allow the whole question of White money to boomerang on them when he said that we would have to give people of colour money with which to establish their own facilities. The chairman of the Boksburg management committee ran to the Coloureds in Reigerpark and said: “Listen here, do not come to our swimming-baths. We shall give you money to build your own swimming-baths.” Those are the hon members who speak about White money, Black money and Coloured money. What I am trying to do here today is to illustrate that there is not a single public standpoint propounded by the CP which can hold water. From Cyprus to Black and White money, there is not a single point that holds water. [Interjections.]

I want to conclude by telling hon members something about the budget. Firstly I want to thank the hon the Administrator and the MECs for the written questions which were answered so promptly. On these questions one obtains answers more promptly than one does from the Government departments. I want to thank them for the exceptional answers they provide. In particular I want to thank Mr Roelf Dreyer for the prompt and excellent answers with which he furnished me in connection with expenditure on roads in the Free State.

Here I am dealing with a very serious matter. In the Free State at present we have roads that serve merely as routes traversing the Free State, without the users of these roads actually spending any money in the Free State. This means that the Free Staters must pay for facilities that are used by other people. Here two matters are of fundamental importance. The first is the development of the Black taxi industry which places tremendous pressure on the roads. Before the CP latches onto this issue again and says we are complaining because those taxis are damaging our roads, whilst they are the very taxis to which we have given our blessing and have presented as an outstanding example of privatisation and deregulation, let me tell them that today, as a result of those taxis, I do not need to make as much of a contribution towards Black people commuting to the residential areas where their families are living.

The other matter concerns the development of the Highlands Water Scheme which results in tremendously dense traffic from the urban industrial areas in Johannesburg to that scheme. Unfortunately the Heilbron constituency lies on the freeway to both those developments. This constituency’s roads are under greater pressure, as a result of these new developments, than any of the other constituencies in the Free State, with the exception of the Sasolburg constituency. The hon member for Sasolburg, however, has virtually only a town and virtually no constituency. He gets a great deal of the traffic, but I get it from two sides. I get it from Johannesburg, and I think the hon member for Bethlehem also gets the tail end on his side. I want to ask the hon the Administrator, and everyone who has the interests of the Free State at heart, to co-operate in an attempt to convince the Central Government to increase the funds it allocates for roads in the Free State. This is necessary because those who are not taxable, or are not included when the formula for Central Government funding is calculated, also make use of these roads in the Free State.

I would be glad if the hon MEC entrusted with hospital services would say something about the academic hospital. When I was looking at the budget, I saw that the amount for hospital services constituted approximately 85% of the total amount for the health services of the Free State, whilst the academic hospital accounted for approximately 65% of the total amount for hospital services.

From these two pieces of information it follows that the academic hospital in Bloemfontein is allocated 55% of the budget for the health services in the Free State. I accept that there must be special subsidies from the Central Government because it is an academic hospital. I accept the fact that this money must come from the Department of National Education. I would be glad if the hon the Administrator could give me some information about that. I could give the exact percentages.

Another disquieting aspect in this regard is that the percentage employed for salaries in the sphere of health services is tremendously high. It is a tremendously high percentage of the total figure for health services. It is likewise disquieting to see that salaries in the Free State constitute 38% of the overall budget, in contrast to the position in the Central Government, where the figure is approximately 30%. There is consequently also a discrepancy, to use Dr Viljoen’s expression, between these two Government sectors. One would appreciate it if a statement could be made so that one knew what was going on here.

Mr Chairman, my sincere thanks for the opportunity granted to me to say a few words here.

Mr Chairman, I want to congratulate the hon the Administrator on the compelling speech which he made and on the pride with which he spoke about the Free State. As the hon the Administrator quoted, I understand that the Free State is one of the smallest provinces, with the fewest inhabitants, but it is also rich in minerals. I am also pleased with the Philip Sanders holiday resort which has been created for our people, where they can relax if they are free during the day.

When I was driving through the Free State en route to Natal in December, I found it disappointing to see the wheat under water. I also wondered who was going to pay for the damage to that wheat. As a Coloured I even felt sympathetic towards the farmers of that province.

I would also like to talk about tourism. Much advertising of our country is being done overseas to bring people here and thereby to help build our country.

I was tired of driving and arrived in Bethlehem. That evening I went to two hotels to ask for accommodation for the night. At the one hotel there was a Coloured woman who told me that the hotel was empty, but that it was only for Whites. She also said that the other hotel was full and that there was no place there. I therefore had to travel further that evening to Harrismith to find accommodation there for my wife and children. It is disappointing to us as fellow South Africans to be turned away from hotels. I come from one of the smallest towns in the Little Karoo, Calitzdorp. That is where I was born. That little hotel was thrown open to all races. If one goes further to Boston, in Bellville, there is a one-star hotel which has been thrown open to all races. It was therefore disappointing to me as a Coloured to have to go to Harrismith that evening to look for accommodation.

Our new hon leader of the governing party said in his first speech that obstacles in the path of reform should be removed so that we can build a new South Africa.

I come from the Cape. I do not have much to say about the Free State, but nevertheless I want to conclude with these few words and thank you for the opportunity to speak here.

Mr Chairman, I should like to thank the hon member for Heideveld for the calm and peaceful way in which he expressed his few thoughts. I am very sorry about the one unpleasant experience he had in the Free State. I want to assure him that to an increasing degree the Free State is becoming a pleasant place for all the people of our country.

The hon member for Lichtenburg also began in a calm vein, which reminded me very much of his former NP days. Unfortunately the blood cells took over and he soon became less effective. Despite that he made a few statements worthy of attention. He, of all people, spoke disparagingly about Black own institutions on the third tier. I should like to ask him whether he wants to destroy or break down these institutions. Unfortunately he is not here at the moment.

He made another statement too, viz that it would be cheaper to implement partition. After all the recent difficulties with regard to partition, I begin to realise that he is correct, because it might be cheap to settle the 7% of the people of the Free State in the Kalahari, especially in the way that was proposed recently. In a paper presented at Sabra by a certain Mr Viljoen, he recommended how these people could be settled in such a homeland. Surely we all realise that all the land there is privately owned. He said it was easy, however. The Whites who no longer see their way clear to living in this multiracial South Africa must move out and go and settle on farms. They must start squatting because, he says, if Black and Coloured people can squat, why not Whites as well? After all, it would be discrimination if Whites were not allowed to squat.

When they start squatting on a farm, they must develop small industries so as to become self-supporting. Larger industries must grow out of this. Before you know where you are, a strong White Boerestaat will have been established in the Kalahari. I believe it can be done cheaply in that way, but I do not think the Whites of South Africa—sensible, reasonable people—see their way clear to doing that.

On behalf of my constituency, Smithfield, I should like to express my sincere and heartfelt thanks to the hon the Administrator, the MECs, the Provincial Administration and our officials for the exceptional services rendered, sometimes in difficult conditions, to my constituency which is experiencing problems as a result of depopulation and urbanisation. In this respect I should also like to express my sincere thanks to Mr Simes, Dr Kruger and Dr Gouws for their recent visits to the hospitals in Smithfield and Zastron and their assurance that these hospitals were not on the point of being closed.

With reference to the discussions we had with the communities there, I also think that these particular communities are ready for the idea that these hospitals will ultimately be converted into community health centres or day hospitals, with great emphasis on preventative medicine, which will lead to the better utilisation of the available funds, staff and all related aspects. I think one should work hard to this end.

With regard to roads, I want to express my thanks for the progress that is being made with the construction of the tarred road from Aliwal North through Rouxville to Smithfield. I want to make an appeal that in the meantime the necessary attention is given to the serious potholes that have formed in the other roads after last year’s floods, and that these roads will also be provided with new surfaces as soon as the economy permits.

I shall send hon members a memorandum that I received recently in which a serious appeal was made for the meaningful completion of the highlands route by means of the alignment and tarring of the Jammersdrif-Smithfield road, which will then take the highlands route over the new Knelpoort Dam, past the Welbedacht Dam, to the Verwoerd Dam. This road also passes through one of our newest and most vital conservation areas, with the enchanting scenic beauty we find in the south-eastern part of the Free State. I know that there is no money at the moment, but my appeal is that this road be built as soon as possible.

On this occasion I also appeal to the administration to purchase approximately 100 hectares of land for a future recreation resort at the recently completed Knelpoort Dam, because this beautiful dam with its clear water, the result of the fact that most of the water is pumped in, is going to lend itself eminently in future to a recreation resort and to water sport opportunities.

With all the seriousness at my disposal, I want to focus attention today on the Pelonomi Hospital, which is also in my constituency. In talking about this hospital, I also want to express my sincere thanks and appreciation for the work done by Mr Mokotjo and Mr Henney as MECs. I support them wholeheartedly in what they are doing for the different population groups of the Free State. We should like to co-operate and we look forward to the day when all the population groups in the country will have the same facilities and the same standards of living. I think they are making rapid strides in attaining that objective. I express my most sincere thanks for the work that is being done in the Free State by these two people.

The Pelonomi Hospital, with its 1 200 beds, is the most important training hospital of the medical faculty of the University of the Orange Free State. It is also the only tertiary referral centre in the country’s whole central area. When one visits the hospital, one is struck by the immense expansion that has taken place there during the past few years. It is really impressive, and something of which the Free State and the country can be very proud. I am referring in particular to the specialist block with its eight storeys, each of which accommodates its own discipline. What is important is that each of these disciplines played a part in the planning of 11 of their sections, under the leadership of their heads of department. I also want to appeal for this idea of having a say in the planning to be implemented over a wide spectrum with regard to health services. I am also referring to the linear unit and the beautiful, effective cancer ward, the physiotherapy section, the Mangaung Training College and the nurses’ home, which is also a showpiece, not to mention the large-scale extensions to the existing buildings. The MEC referred a moment ago to the better handling of out-patients, as it is being experienced at present.

Despite all these very positive things, I do want to point out certain problem areas. I am not doing this in a negative or destructive spirit, but rather to encourage those of us who are here this morning to think dynamically with regard to health services in the Free State. I am fully aware of the financial problems in the midst of which this has to take place. It is very clear to me, if one makes a study of the hospital and the set-up there, that the funding of the hospital is gradually beginning to lag behind the financial needs of such a hospital. Unless there is a radical improvement with regard to funding, all health workers are being faced with a deterioration in their conditions, to the extent that the continued existence of the medical faculty can be seriously affected in future. As I understand it, certain facilities cannot be opened because of a lack of finance. This is the case in the block with theatres and intensive care units in particular. When one approaches the hospital as a visitor, the huge building complex presents a depressing picture because of the lack of neat gardens and lawns. Unfortunately one also enters the hospital through the older section, which looks dirty here and there, and the passages are dark and noisy. In certain departments the facilities are clearly completely inadequate. In the case of admissions to the casualty ward, and particularly to the departments of obstetrics and paediatrics and the neonatal intensive care unit of the latter section, there are great limitations. I am thinking, for example, of the lack of monitors in these sections. In the section for burns, some of the unhygienic baths have in the past led to infections. This could cost the Government thousands of rands in antibiotics. The lack of a blood bank is also a big problem which sometimes causes precious time to be lost.

These few critical comments have been made to prove one point—-I said this a moment ago too—viz that we in the OFS will have to channel our thoughts in a dynamic and revolutionary direction when it comes to health services. I deduce that decentralisation in the Free State must be taken much further if the available funds permit this. Regional hospitals, no matter how commendable the work they do, are still not effective buffers to check patients in order to prevent a bottleneck developing at the Pelonomi Hospital. We shall have to make much more progress in this regard.

We shall have to prevent many of the patients who have normal illnesses from being sent to referral units. In this regard I am thinking of the delivery rooms, for example, where between 5 000 and 6 000 births take place annually. Most of them do not belong in tertiary referral units. We shall have to ensure, for example, that each little community has its own clinic with its preventative services so that, as I have said, this can prevent a bottleneck developing at the Pelonomi Hospital.

In the Free State we shall have to consider—I am a layman, but I mention this for what it is worth—more intensive and thorough planning on a regional level, where one can gain inputs from academics and technicians in addition to the administrative staff. There is a great deal of equipment in the Pelonomi and Universitas Hospitals which is no longer suitable for training purposes, but which can be utilised meaningfully in regional and smaller hospitals. On the other hand, there may be white elephants in smaller hospitals which can be used effectively in the Pelonomi Hospital.

By means of the necessary meaningful devolution of power to the level of head of department, these academics can also negotiate for the purchase of the correct equipment. Expensive equipment can be purchased for the training hospitals by means of the “lease” system for example, so as to iron out cash flow problems. Serious attention will also have to be given to the deficiencies in the present tender system, because sometimes the Government is exploited terribly within this system. Certain irritating red tape in the requisition of stocks could perhaps be restricted to a minimum, because this often causes certain medical care services not to be performed effectively.

One must also find a way in which money that is left over at the end of a financial year need not necessarily be spent or returned to the Treasury, but can be retained by such a department for meaningful utilisation in the next year’s budget in order to purchase the necessary equipment.

The time has come for a hospital such as Pelonomi to be placed under a directorate of management experts and academics so that people who work there at grass-roots level and who can make the necessary input can do the planning as functionally as possible. This directorate must be able to negotiate for funds more effectively and with more authority, also from the private sector. I even want to go so far as to say that this directorate should negotiate with the encouragement of people such as Margaret Thatcher and others, so that even foreign funds can be used effectively where deficiencies are experienced, such as at the Pelonomi Hospital.

It would also be a good thing for the various sections to be regularly subjected to projects, by the department of industrial psychology, for instance, so as to prevent all leakages and do everything in their power to make the available funds go as far as possible.

I am also very grateful to hear that the hon the Administrator has already agreed to meet a delegation from the medical faculty of the University of the Orange Free State to discuss these deficiencies in depth.

†We are all entangled in the hard school of politics, but at this moment I would like to borrow the words of the late Dr Albert Schweitzer, who stated:

*May we think together, plan together and stand together in developing these fine thoughts about humanity with the meagre funds at our disposal to the extent that they become a living monument for the Free State and its people.

Mr Chairman, once again I wish to express my thanks, on behalf of myself and the Indian community of the Free State, to the hon the Administrator and his department and to the people of the Free State in general for the courteous and friendly way in which the Indian community was accepted and made to feel welcome in the Free State. The Free State is in fact regarded by the Indian community as a new way to a new land. It was a land that was strange to them, but also a land in which they could start a new life. I am proud of the way in which they conduct their affairs and practise their trades—especially in Bloemfontein and the goldfields. I am also proud of the support they are receiving from the Free Staters.

I want to address a special word of thanks to the MEC, Mr Henney, who looked after their interests during the absence of an official representative for the community. He was always prepared to attend to their requests without any hesitation.

Now that the Indian community has arrived in the province and made their contribution in respect of business and so on and after having decided to make the Free State their home, with the hope of starting a business there, it is imperative that their needs be seen to. Housing is the greatest problem. At present the Indian community in the Free State does not have any housing. The Group Areas Board instituted an investigation and a hearing took place to proclaim one of the two proposed areas in Bloemfontein and one of the two proposed areas in the goldfields as Indian areas. The result of the board’s findings is expected soon, and I want to express the hope that the decision will be made as soon as possible so that the envisaged areas can be developed without any further delay. The homeless community is frustrated and that is why it is imperative to solve this urgent problem as soon as possible.

We have a major problem with the education and schooling of Indian children in the Free State. I realise that it will not be possible to build a school before an Indian area has been proclaimed, but in the meantime the children are without education, and we do not want to see these children becoming criminals. At present suitable premises are being sought in Bloemfontein for the building of classrooms. Perhaps the administration could be of assistance here. Perhaps there is an old empty school building or another building which we could fit up as a school and which could be made available to the House of Delegates on a lease basis. This would mean a great deal to the Indian community.

A certain White school in Bloemfontein, where the children of Black diplomats, among others, receive their education, is prepared to accept Indian children. The present number of schoolgoing Indian children is in the vicinity of 40. Eighty percent of the parents of the White children who attend the school in question have indicated that they would have no objection to Indian children being admitted to this school. To my surprise the Government is experiencing problems with this, and does not want to issue a permit for the admission of Indian children to that White school.

I want to know why this problem cannot be solved in a humane, easy way, which would be to the advantage of all the interested parties. I hope and pray that people’s hearts will be enlightened so that they can be humane towards one another.

There is a great and urgent need for a cemetery for the Indian community in the Free State. At the moment they are compelled to transport their dead to the Transvaal. This is not only inconvenient, but also irregular and unlawful, and offends against morality. With the identification of residential areas this problem could be very quickly solved.

Hospital services are the greatest need of the Indian community in the Free State. It would definitely be unreasonable to build a hospital for the sole use of a small number of Indians. The question which arises, however, is why they cannot utilise the facilities at White hospitals. Why must they travel to the Transvaal when all medical services are really on the same human level for all? Illness does not distinguish between colour or race, and its treatment does not require any distinction.

In my opinion, if we were to make an effort to tackle our problems in a positive manner, it would be very easy to solve them in a humane way. It would then be very easy to solve what we now consider to be insurmountable problems. I always say, if we can solve our own problems, we shall be able to do so very well.

In any marriage there comes a time when there is trouble between the husband and the wife. If they have quarreled how long does the bad feeling last? It only lasts until the next meal when they come together at the table, and then they are reconciled. However, if the neighbours interfere it could lead to divorce.

If the outside world would only leave us alone to sort out our problems in our own way, we would be able to do so quicker and better. But then we would have to open our hearts to one another and proceed in a humane way to solve these problems of ours. The outside world must not meddle in our affairs. We must handle our problems in our own way. I think the good Lord will be on our side in the solving of our problems and our endeavour to live together in a humane way.

I wish to express my heartfelt thanks to the hon the Administrator, who is a good friend of mine, his good wife and his department. I thank you very much.

Mr Chairman, I shall subsequently be given another opportunity to react to certain matters that were raised and which affected my directorate.

In his opening speech the Administrator referred to the fact that a further three RSCs were going to be established in the Orange Free State and that the area of the Bloemarea RSC would be enlarged. The proposals of the demarcation board in this connection have already been approved by the Executive Committee of the Free State and in all likelihood the Free State in its entirety will have been divided into RSCs midway through the present year. This will mean that all the levy payers in the Free State will have to pay the regional services levy, which is levied at a maximum rate level of 0,25% on the total wage amount paid by an employer, and the regional establishment levy calculated at a rate 0,10% of the gross turnover.

The subdirectorate of the community services branch involved in the establishment of RSCs is at present intensively engaged in preparatory work and as soon as the concurrence has been obtained from the various Ministers the Administrator will make the necessary announcement in connection with the seats of each of the new RSCs, appoint the chairmen and request the participating bodies to nominate their representatives, after which the first meeting will be convened.

As you and hon members know, Mr Chairman, a RSC is not a new level of government, but only a horizontal extension of the local government with specific objectives. The first of these objectives is to perform certain local government functions at regional level. In the second place the objective is to employ already existing expertise and infrastructure effectively, to an optimum degree and more economically on a regional basis, in other words to utilise scarce resources more cost-effectively and efficiently by means of economies of scale.

Thirdly the objective is to establish a new additional source of revenue for local government, by means of levies, which can contribute to expanding and reinforcing local government by inter alia training more officials as well as representatives for local government.

As hon members know, the Regional Services Councils Act provides that a RSC must pay one twentieth per cent of its total proceeds from levies to the training fund established in terms of the Local Authorities Training Act.

The fourth and final objective I want to mention is that through the establishment of RSCs, the Government’s reform objectives in respect of joint decision making on matters of common concern are being implemented.

It is the express policy of the Executive Committee of the Orange Free State to guard against the danger of empire building in the establishment and functioning of the RSCs. For this reason councils are encouraged to limit their personnel to the absolute minimum and to make use of existing expertise and infrastructure that is already available, particularly in local authorities, but which can also be bought or leased from local bodies. It is a basic principle that the levies collected in a specific RSC region must also be applied in that specific region.

I would make so bold as to say that one of the most successful institutions to develop out of the Government’s reform initiatives has in fact been the regional services councils. During its short period of existence the Bloemarea RSC has demonstrated that the additional sources of revenue, through planned efficient utilisation, have already produced results in the form of accelerated development and economic activities. In the long term, when all the RSCs in the Free State are in full operation, they will serve as a strong foundation for economic growth and also for the creation of job opportunities.

It is true that the services being rendered by the local authorities in most of the Black towns are inadequate. There are various reasons for this state of affairs. Black towns are growing very rapidly indeed as far as the numbers of inhabitants are concerned, but do not generate as much money as their White neighbours, because for years they have been unable to acquire rights of ownership and have therefore been deprived of the main source of revenue of the local authority, namely property tax.

Although the Black towns are of the same age as the adjoining White towns, all the economic activities have occurred in the White towns, and the Black towns were merely dormitory towns. The inhabitants earned their money in the White towns and spent it there without benefiting from their contribution to the economy.

Representatives of Black local authorities do not have experience of local government either, with the result that in many cases the deterioration and decay of services is attributable to negligence and erroneous decision-making, as well as to erroneous determination of priorities by the inexperienced councillors. In this respect the establishment of regional services councils, and their contributions to the training fund, are rendering assistance of inestimable value. Apart from the training which is at their disposal, councillors of all population groups also have the benefit of meeting and deliberating in the RSC context with experienced councillors of larger local authorities. What it virtually amounts to in fact is that in-service training is being provided.

The Regional Services Council Act provides that, and I quote:

This provision, together with the backlog to be found particularly among Black local authorities, causes people to make the statement, sometimes willfully, that regional services councils have been established simply to help the Blacks and that all the money will be spent on development and the upliftment of Black areas because these are the areas that have lagged behind. In my opinion such a statement is not altogether untrue, because surely Black townships were in many cases established with the convenience of the adjoining White town in mind, and not as a full-fledged town for the Black community. The fact that when one talks about areas that have lagged behind one thinks immediately of Black townships is a reprimand to the developers and the insufficient attention given to the creation of infrastructure and other facilities for the upliftment and development of the Black inhabitants. However it is not true to say, or correct to accept, that all or even most of the funds of regional services councils are always being appropriated in the interests of Black townships. One must bear in mind that reference is made in the Act to areas where the “greatest need therefor exists.” This need is identified by a participating local government itself and brought to the attention of the regional services council, which determines its own priorities.

Surely it is a fact that specific circumstances have over the years been conducive to the populations of the smaller White towns declining, and even to the number of White people in the districts levelling off drastically, with the result that these small towns found it increasingly difficult to make ends meet. The infrastructure and rendering of services have declined to such an extent, and even decayed, that the taxpayer, who has always discharged his obligations, no longer receives services of the standard to which he is accustomed.

If one considers the situation of a large group of the smaller local authorities in the Free State one finds that during the period of the past 30 years or so the populations have diminished by more than 50% in some cases. The result was that the number of school-going children diminished drastically. Businesses and other economic activities levelled off and the tax income in real terms dwindled considerably.

Together with inflation and cost escalation the result of this has been that expenditure in respect of services has risen steadily. Smaller local authorities are finding it increasingly more difficult to find funds for the essential maintenance of water and electricity reticulation, streets, pavements and so on. Many of these reticulation systems are by now becoming defective. To replace the water reticulation system in a certain town in the Southern Free State, which is already 50 years old and is by now effective, will cost more than R2 million, and the inhabitants cannot bear that burden. If another town is to reseal its main street at its own expense it will mean increasing rates by 30%. Some of the smaller places are not even able to afford a full time town clerk, because the total income is less than the R29 000 laid down by the Remuneration Board as remuneration for the town clerk of a group 1 town.

I am sketching these conditions in White municipalities to indicate that when RSCs determine priorities and give preference in areas where the greatest needs therefor exist, White towns will certainly be able to lay claim to assistance, and there are various ways in which the regional services councils can be of assistance, apart from merely making funds available. For example they can service loans or subsidise the repayment of loans. This could prevent rates having to be increased. The RSC could help by placing the necessary expertise at the disposal of smaller towns which will enable them to acquire professional services at a rate they can afford.

Having said all this, I must add that the inference should not be drawn that the mere establishment of regional services councils in the Free State will mean that all the problems of the local authorities are going to be solved. The revenue of regional services councils is also limited, with the result that the assistance available from this source also has its limits. However, while we are investigating the financial problems of the smaller local authorities and seeking solutions, regional services councils already offer part of the solution.

It would be a pity if this honest attempt to make a contribution to the upliftment of communities, one which has already during its short existence demonstrated a measure of limited success in its participation in a search for solutions to the problem of helping communities to help themselves, is allowed to miscarry for the sake of temporary political interest.

I therefore want to make a very serious appeal for this committee to do everything in its power to develop regional services councils in the Free State and to make a success of them.

Mr Chairman, it is really a great honour to react to the hon member of the Executive Committee, Mr Dreyer. I want to congratulate him on the content of his speech, as well as the informed way in which he told us about regional services councils.

I find it an uncommon but pleasant privilege to be able to participate in this exceptional debate in this Chamber which has so much character. I said an exceptional debate, because it certainly is that. The fact that the Free State is holding its meeting of the Extended Public Committee in the Cape certainly makes it exceptional. This also has an advantage, because as a result the most beautiful people in our country are joined together in the most beautiful part of our country today. [Interjections.] This has already had a beneficial effect, even on those members who are not Free Staters. It has even had an effect on the hon member for Lichtenburg, because he was not as vicious today as we have come to know him recently. [Interjections.] I want to tell the CP that in the Free State they are seen here and there, but not really heard. People do not really take them seriously. In Welkom the CP town council did not make even a weak attempt to implement the CP policy under their own steam, because even they realised it could never work in a beautiful city such as Welkom. The people who live in the goldfields are decent people. There is not even a full-blooded CP in the goldfields. [Interjections.] When the CP executive did crack the whip loudly, they were trying to do something contrary to their own better judgement in order to appease the leadership of the CP. In the process they moved themselves right out of the Government. Without firing a single shot they are now sitting in the opposition benches, because they say they can serve the Whites better and more meaningfully from there than from the Government benches. In other words, they can react much better than they can govern. In Welkom CP stands for capitulate, because that is what the CP town council did in Welkom. They capitulated. In the Free State CP actually stands for kaput.

I want to express a word of thanks to the provincial administration today. In the first place the new non-White hospital, which will have 620 beds and upon completion will have cost almost R80 million, has become a reality after many years. An amount of R17,071 million has been budgeted for this financial year, and the construction is under way. This hospital is going to mean a great deal to the Free State goldfields and will certainly meet the enormous need that has arisen over the years. We should like to thank the Administrator, the hon the MEC entrusted with hospital services and the Director of Health Services in the Free State for the enormous part they played in this. Naturally such a large hospital requires intensive advance planning even at this early stage of development with regard to the purchase and meaningful positioning of new equipment—according to estimates, equipment to the value of approximately R40 million—and the timeous and comprehensive training of nursing staff for this hospital. Continuity from the planning phase to the final inauguration of the new facility is absolutely essential.

I should like to know from the hon the MEC entrusted with hospital services how long after the construction of a regional hospital of this scope has been commenced, it is envisaged to fill the positions of secretary and other officials, medical superintendent and matron. I should also like to know how much progress has been made in the planning for the training of nursing staff for said hospital and whether sufficient facilities and funds are available. I should like to support the request received from the Free State Goldfields’ Chamber of Commerce that high priority be granted to this matter in order to prevent this fine project from ending in chaos. There is considerable gratitude in my constituency for the way in which the Director of Hospital Services and his deputies dealt with the issue of medical staff in the provincial hospitals at a period when there was really a crisis. The fact that the hon the Administrator was prepared, because of what they had done, to appoint private doctors on a sessional basis to fill the most important positions, and the willingness of the private doctors, who were already overworked, to co-operate, is deserving of praise. Therefore I should also like to pay tribute to all the doctors, pharmacists and nurses of the goldfields today, as well as to the two general practitioners of 1988, for the wonderful health service they render to the community. Dr Francois de Wet and Dr Johan van Aswegen had to go it alone in the hospital for the greater part of the year, and in the process they did excellent work. Two thirds of the positions are filled at present, and nine doctors do the work these two did alone, but after the “thank you” one so often has the “please”.

Sufficient provision is not being made for the needs of the community in the provincial hospital at Welkom. Despite the relief that was provided last year with regard to the provision of instruments and other equipment, there is still a critical shortage of certain equipment. I can mention only a few examples. There is a great need for an operating table for the urology theatre. According to the anaesthetists and other experts in anaesthetics who visited the hospital, the monitors and anaesthetic apparatus in certain operating theatres are already a forensic risk. In addition ear, nose and throat instruments and opthalmological instruments are borrowed from Kroonstad’s hospital, and will have to be returned and replaced at some or other stage.

The things I have mentioned are the basic requirements for the effective functioning of a hospital; we are not asking for luxuries. That is what I want to appeal for on behalf of the doctors and the community, who deserve only the best treatment. It is pleasing to see that an amount of R815 000 has been appropriated for the provincial hospital in Welkom for the new financial year in order to replace obsolete equipment and purchase new equipment.

There is great appreciation for the modern crèche for children of the staff, and the new orthopedic workshop, which will probably be one of the most modern workshops in the country, which will meet the needs of White and non-White patients and which is already under construction. Undoubtedly the crèche will eliminate problems experienced by staff as a result of irregular working hours to a great extent. It is promising that the White Ministers’ Council decided recently to investigate the attainability of a new concept, viz the establishment of multi-disciplinary health and welfare centres, where hospital services, school health and dental services, district surgeon services, mental health and social work services, as well as care for the infirm aged, can be rendered in one complex. A comprehensive service of this kind will streamline the rendering of health services, also in the Free State, and make this more effective. It will definitely mean a great deal to our White aged people in that it will make life more pleasant and comfortable for them. The possible establishment of such centres in hospitals which are identified as own affairs hospitals, and where there are unutilised beds and space, will be considered. As a result there will be greater emphasis on preventive than on curative services, and there will be better utilisation of existing facilities. All of this means that there will be great saving for the future. It will also relieve the demand for curative services, viz hospital services. It was also pleasing to hear from the hon the Administrator that this concept has got off to a good start in Parys in the Free State. I want to request urgently that this be extended to other towns as soon as possible.

I have already referred to the doctors and pharmacists in the Free State who render a health service of a very high standard to the community. These two professions have complemented one another very well in the past, and neither could really function effectively without the other. I believe that is still true today, despite the so-called feud that has been experienced between these two professions with regard to dispensing doctors. They still need one another just as much, and I do not think any further legislation in order to regulate these two professions is either necessary or desirable.

It is my contention that the Medical, Dental and Supplementary Health Service Professions Amendment Act, 1984, which was intended to protect the pharmaceutical profession, had the opposite effect. There are certain unwritten laws that determine and regulate the ethics of the professions, and I believe the time has come for the resumption of discussions between the Pharmacy Council and the SA Medical and Dental Council. Top level negotiations have always reaped benefits, and it is my opinion that that is where the disputes should be resolved.

Negotiations between pharmacists and their parliamentary representatives and the Director of Health Services have already reaped benefits in the Free State, and in my opinion the pharmacists in the Free State can attest to that.

I should like to conclude with a quotation. The hon the Deputy Minister of National Health recently said, when he opened the meeting of the Pharmacy Council:

Mr Chairman, in the first place I want to associate myself with the sentiments that were expressed to the hon the Chairman in the House of Representatives and his family. In addition, I want to congratulate the hon the Administrator, the MECs and all the provincial officials on the work that has been done in the Free State during the past year.

Furthermore I want to associate myself with my hon colleagues. The hon member for Lichtenburg, Dr Ferdi Hartzenberg, mentioned the incident at the Philip Sanders resort, for example. In my opinion this incident was wrested out of context somewhat. As far as the Free State is concerned, hon members know that we have very good relationships among our people. This incident was one of those things that made those of us in the LP decide to accommodate one another. Where no facility exists for a specific group, I feel we should tolerate one another a little in order to relieve the burden.

I listened, for example, to Dr Ferdi Hartzenberg as he tried to apply models from Europe to us here in South Africa. The CP has tried to do this in the past as well. I do not think it will ever work in South Africa. It is simply not workable.

We learned that we would find our solutions around the conference table. If we, as Dr Ferdi Hartzenberg mentioned here …

Order! I want to point out to the hon member that he must refer to hon members by their constituencies. He may not refer to the hon member for Lichtenburg as Dr Ferdi Hartzenberg.

As it pleases you, Mr Chairman. The hon member for Lichtenburg said, for example, that it was because the influx control measures had been abolished that Blacks were flocking to the rural towns.

I think that if the CP were in power, they would have applied the influx control measures to the Whites, because if the Whites had not left the rural areas, we would not have had problems and there would have been development in the rural areas. I come from the rural areas myself and know that many of the towns are ghost towns today, because the Whites have left the rural areas. It is interesting that the hon member for Lichtenburg also mentioned that power would not be shared in South Africa. Hon members know it is very important to watch and study things in Africa. We all know what is happening in Southern Africa. The people in SWA are now getting an opportunity to work out their future. I hope and trust that there will be peace and that they will be given an opportunity and that time will be on their side in order to enable them to make a peaceful attempt to work out their future.

It is very important for me to condemn the fighting at Mockes Dam in the strongest terms. It cannot be tolerated. What really happened here was a misunderstanding. These are things that happen at many holiday resorts. They also happen on the beaches. But these are things that can be sorted out.

I was also shocked on Sunday night to hear about the incident at Reitz. I do not want to make a political football of the incident, but I should like to mention a few things concerning it. I am very concerned about the incident involving 52 Black farm workers who were poisoned by drinking tea or coffee. In the first place I want to know whether the people were aware that the containers they were using had contained poison. According to my information, which I got from the radio and television, the farm owner explained more or less what could have happened. I request that an investigation be made into the preventive measures that were taken with regard to the incident, because I would be very sad if there were a repetition of this in the near future. I believe in the case of someone’s having been negligent, such as the foreman who keeps the keys, as I understood it, action will have to be taken. I mention that because the people are in hospital. I thank the hospital services for their excellent work, as well as the Defence Force, the staff members of the Universitas, Pelonomi and 3 Military Hospitals. There is another problem. A little girl died. As hon members know, the ambulancemen in the Free State, especially the Coloured and Black people, do not have paramedic training. In January a little boy was hit by a car in front of my house. The ambulance arrived there an hour later. The little boy was put in the ambulance and taken to hospital. He died on his arrival there. I do not expect this training to take place overnight. It is a protracted process and these men will have to receive more training and so on, but I want to appeal for attention to be given to paramedic training for everyone in future.

Let me tell hon members why I am requesting an investigation on our behalf. I should like to know from the hospital services what really happened, because these people were admitted to and examined and treated in our hospitals. We should like to have some background knowledge about this, because people are going to wrest this matter out of context later, and as the representative of people I merely want to have the correct facts at my disposal.

I also want to thank our traffic officers for the excellent work they did over the Easter weekend. They had to work long hours. I also made use of our roads, and I realised that our men are really among the most courteous in the country. Sometimes they have to work under difficult conditions, because there is a shortage of traffic officers, but one could not perceive that from their conduct. One could see that they were handling things comfortably.

When we returned, the roads were still very busy and I told my wife that I hoped things would not deteriorate. I also want to thank the good Lord, because we did not lose the number of lives we expected to lose this year. It is those small things that count. Everyone must put his shoulder to the wheel in order to make a success of everything. [Interjections.]

What is also important is that we in the Free State have the problem—the MEC entrusted with hospital services mentioned this—of a shortage of ambulances. I appreciate the new purchases, because this will really relieve matters. We lost a White teacher, for example—I mentioned this in our House—who taught a kilometre away from the hospital at the non-White Pelonomi Hospital, because she had to wait for a White hospital’s ambulance that had to drive hurriedly to fetch her and take her back again.

I find it very sad, because she was one of our best teachers. She was still one of the old school of teachers, not one of today’s teachers. Such people, who could have been an example to others, are lost. What I found particularly important, especially when it comes to the CP, is that a White woman was sacrificing her time to educate Coloureds. [Interjections.]

Furthermore it is very important for me to mention that I am pleased about the R19 million that was used to rebuild and improve existing roads. As the hon the Administrator mentioned, the Free State is so centrally situated that our road network is driven to pieces by the amount of traffic it carries.

I want to request that a signboard be affixed on the N1 this side of Winburg to indicate where people should turn off to Durban. Many people experience problems with this. I have friends in the Cape, for example, who drove past and ended up in Kroonstad. It is not very clear to people who do not know our province, and they usually drive past that turn-off.

I want to wish the Free State everything of the best. The hon the Administrator mentioned that 75% of our Roads Branch would be privatised. I want to wish the Free State everything of the best in that regard. A great deal of progress will have been made by 1994.

I also want to congratulate the hon the Administrator and his staff on the place of safety that was established for the Blacks. The Coloureds in the Free State have a similar problem. Some of our children are sent as far away as Kimberley. This means a great deal to the Free State and I hope that in due course the province will establish more places of safety in other centres in the Free State, for example, because this is very important to us. In my experience the children who are taken so far away from their families slip back instead of making progress. I find that alarming.

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Welkom referred here to the full-blooded Free Staters. It is actually ironic that I am far more of a full-blooded Free Stater than either of the two hon members—the hon member for Heilbron and the hon member for Welkom—who spoke here this morning. I was not only born in the district of Heilbron, but I also matriculated in Welkom. It is also ironic that both those constituencies are of course constituencies which are going to belong to the CP after the next election—which we hear is going to take place soon. [Interjections.] We also see that whereas there are many Nationalists here at the moment, they are going to be very thin on the ground next year and there are going to be only CPs as far as the eye can see. [Interjections.]

I was not only born in the Free State and matriculated there, but I also actually live in the Free State. I live on the other side of the Vaal River. That is the part of Standerton where they stole a bit of the Free State. Our border there is actually the Klip River. I actually also farm in that district. If hon members really want to see a full-blooded Free Stater, they are looking at one now. [Interjections.]

In the first place I want to express my sincere thanks to the officials. We in the CP do our homework very well and approximately three quarters of the questions asked, were asked by the CP. The replies to them were fairly comprehensive. We want to thank the officials most sincerely for the very fine work they did and for the good replies which were given in some cases. This helped us a great deal.

As the hon member for Lichtenburg said, we would simply have liked to have received these replies a little sooner. This may have enabled us to participate more meaningfully in the debate. I do not want to criticise, but I also want to ask that the annual report be made available early as was the case last year. I realise that we are meeting two months earlier this year than we did last year. I must compliment the hon the Administrator on last year’s annual report. It was a fine piece of work, and it gave our people very good insight into what is going on in the Free State.

Apart from that I feel it is my duty to refer briefly to the extended public committee which sat in the Free State last year. I myself did not have an opportunity to talk there because we only had a few minutes in which to talk.

Then you ran out!

The hon member for Bethlehem has a lot to say now, but it seems to me they listened to the CP, because when we think back to the extended public committee last year in Bloemfontein there were two matters in particular which bothered us. The one was the great deal of money which was being spent to hold the meeting of the extended public committee in the Free State. The other was the little time allocated to the CP. [Interjections.] What is happening this year? Is it not ironic? The Extended Public Committee on the Provincial Affairs of the Orange Free State is not sitting anywhere near the Free State this year. I think we had to commission a number of buses and trains to bring the people from the Free State here because if we listened to hon members’ introductory speeches on that occasion last year regarding the historic event which was taking place there, we will recall that it was said that democracy was being brought to the people and the people of the Free State could come and listen to what was going on.

Where is the public? [Interjections.] The only people who are here are the people the hon member for Heilbron is so afraid of. They are going to give him a lot of trouble in his constituency in the next election. There is no one else.

This is typical of the promises made by the NP. This year we are meeting in the Chamber of the House of Delegates. That is where we are meeting.

Were you not in the joint committee yesterday?

The hon member for Bethlehem has a lot to say this morning. Last year they only gave us 30 minutes. Strangely enough our protest would seem to have helped because this year they have given us 100 minutes. We are very grateful for this. [Interjections.] It seems to me the protests we made did help. We thank them very much for the extra time they have given us.

There is another aspect of the meeting which was held in Bloemfontein last year which bothered me and which I must refer to now. This concerns the participation of certain of the hon MECs in the discussion. I am not saying that they must not participate, and I am not saying that they should not be allowed to have their say. However, I do feel that an MEC should not participate in the political debates of these committees.

We did not even have a proper chance to talk in the joint committee, when one of the hon MECs, namely the hon MEC entrusted with hospital services, came along and launched an attack on the CP suggesting that our policy was one thing one day and another the next. I think it was absolutely uncalled for and it should not be like this. I am mentioning this here because yesterday the hon MEC …

He is a political Nationalist!

Yes, that is the trouble. Apparently he has been involved with the NP in the Free State for 25 years. If he wants to become involved in politics he must not use this opportunity to do so. The election will be taking place one of these days and then he can stand as a candidate. [Interjections.] He can come and stand in Standerton, where we will show him a thing or two. He can then enter the political debate.

I am not quarrelling with him; I merely want to ask this of him. Yesterday he asked us politely to keep politics out of hospital services. Today I am asking him and the other MECs very politely to keep politics out of matters and to be objective in respect of all the parties. Whether it concerns the House of Delegates, the House of Representatives or whoever, I am asking them to remain objective.

The hon member for Smithfield referred to the Pelonomi Hospital. I have here a cutting from Die Volksblad of 28 March 1989 with the caption “Alle eetstakers sal nou na Pelonomi”. I am quoting as follows from it:

If these people are going to be moved to the Pelonomi Hospital, as the hon MEC has indicated to us, this of course affects the funds. Yesterday the hon MEC told us that in actual fact R77 million less was being allocated for hospital services than was originally asked for. The relocations are a tremendous burden now being placed on the Free State. This is being placed on hospital services, and I feel the hon MEC should ask that more funds be made available so that, if the people are going to be moved there, the Free State will not have to bear this burden alone.

In our country’s present financial position with the increased public debt, increasing inflation, the weak rand and the necessity for the curtailing of Government expenditure, there is a great temptation to curtail expenditure on health services. In an effort to uplift people in the social and economic spheres—this is definitely also the endeavour of the CP—there is a great temptation to spend State money on housing, education and the creation of employment rather than on health services.

Whites, Coloureds and Blacks in the Free State all have an interest in the amount voted for health services being large enough to maintain a high standard of health services there. It would be foolish to argue that the standard of health services must be lowered because those funds should rather be used for education, housing and the creation of employment in order to increase the standard of living. Surely one can scarcely increase the standard of living by lowering the standard of health services. A government which argues like that is a stupid government.

The fact of the matter is that more money will constantly have to be voted to try to keep health services and specifically hospital services in the Free State at the same standard. We are then not even talking about keeping pace with new developments. The population growth is making greater demands on the budget and inflation is making higher demands on the budget. An important part of the expenditure in respect of equipment and medicine is dependent on the rand’s performance as against other currencies. This means that the replacement of outdated apparatus and repair and maintenance costs are making increasing demands on the budget. One would expect more to be voted every year for equipment to allow services to continue. What is however happening is that in the previous two budgets clearly insufficient money was made available for this. In the budget for the 1986-87 financial year R30,9 million was voted for furniture and equipment. The following year only R11,9 million was voted for this. Last year approximately R15 million was voted for this.

Cut-backs in funds resulted in a backlog building up in the replacement of outdated equipment. Unrealistic amounts are being spent on the repair of outdated equipment and certain equipment can no longer be repaired. No new equipment which keeps pace with the technological progress in the medical field can be purchased. Technological progress is taking place but no funds are available to purchase modern apparatus. The poor showing of the rand as against foreign currencies has resulted in the cost of imported equipment and parts sky-rocketing. We can therefore say that even an increased allocation in the budget will probably only make provision for the partial allaying of a backlog which has built up in recent years. Suggestions that the service can be improved or expanded in this way can only be accepted with reservations. Money voted for the purchase of specialised medical equipment can be used to replace outdated equipment or to make real new purchases to expand the service.

Other spheres in which greater demands are being made on the budget are in respect of preventative health services, such as primary health services, immunisation and school health services. The CP gladly supports higher expenditure on these services because in the long term it is cost-effective to prevent disease rather than to treat it. In the short term and for the present budget it does not, however, solve the problem of funding an increasingly expensive service.

There is also a backlog with regard to ambulance services and the maintenance services. This is also making greater demands on the budget and it must therefore be clear that all inhabitants of the Free State, whether they be White, Coloured or Black, have an interest in the Hospital Services branch receiving and allocation which, taking into account the 15% salary increase and occupational specific improvements in the wage ploy, is appreciably more than the inflation rate.

The salary increase of 15% and occupational specific improvements for certain groups total R33 million and the wage ploy totals R4,5 million.

I should also like to refer to certain questions which were asked, to which certain replies were given. The first of these questions concerned whether there was at present adequate specialised medical equipment available at hospitals to ensure effective care of patients. The alarming reply was an immediate no. Although R6,8 million was spent on specialised hospital equipment in the 1988-89 financial year, and R12,5 million has been voted for this equipment for the 1989-90 financial year, all the needs, set by the academic hospitals in particular, could still not be met.

I should like to refer to another question in connection with the collection of fees. The question asked was the following:

The figure here is actually ominous. The reply to question 1 reads as follows:

The reply to question 2 is:

In other words a total of more than R2 million had been written off. I feel that these figures and these write-offs can definitely receive attention and be reduced.

I also want to refer specifically to the shortage of White nurses. A question was also asked by us in connection with White nurses, and the reply was that the shortage of White nurses was continuing. The reply given was that it was unavoidable that an increasing number of Coloured nurses would be used to nurse Whites.

It cannot be disputed that nursing is a very personal service. Nor can it be disputed that the relationship between a nurse and a patient is a very intimate one. The Hospital Services branch itself admits that it is preferable to have Whites nursed within their own cultural context, in that they make a special arrangement for patients in Ward 5B at the Universitas Hospital. In this ward men with urological problems are nursed. Only White nurses are used here. This is surely a recognition of the cultural context.

The reply given does not indicate any effort to address the shortage of White nurses. Does the administration not consider it a problem that there are few entrants to the profession from the ranks of the Whites? Have they not done anything to encourage White school-leavers to enter the profession? Has no consideration been given to concessions in respect of subsistence expenses, salaries, bursaries and other incentives to recruit White nurses? It is clear that the correct answer to the question put is being evaded.

I also want to close on a positive note. I should like to express my thanks to the emergency rescue helicopter which is periodically used in a supportive role in conjunction with the ambulance services of the Free State—the so-called “tin angel”. It is in the constituency of the hon member for Bethlehem. He will probably mention it, but I shall mention it here on his behalf. In the period of just over two years in which this aircraft has been in use more than 140 people have been assisted. Of this number approximately 90% would not have survived if it had not been for the critical time saved by this service. By merely quoting the cold statistics, one cannot give enough recognition to the determination and perseverance of the highly-trained and motivated crew to save lives under difficult circumstances. Real professional dedication is discernible from the pilot down to the qualified paramedics.

The medical team comes from the ambulance colleges in Bloemfontein and Bethlehem. Dr Piet Human, the superintendent of the hospital at Bethlehem and the co-ordinator of the project, says that on average the aircraft is in the air within 12 minutes after an emergency call has been received. The pilot is available 24 hours a day. A first-aid assistant from Bethlehem’s fire brigade as well as a doctor from the provincial hospital at Bethlehem, fly with him. In addition to the aircraft—the only one of its kind in the country—Bethlehem has a specially designed motor vehicle containing the same equipment as the aircraft.

They work principally in an area approximately 200 km in circumference in the Eastern Free State. This is a very interesting development, where assistance is being given to the medical services in the Free State. Although the hon member for Bethlehem apparently wants to laugh this off, I think that these people are really rendering a service. If we all render such services we will actually be able to assist the hospital services in the Free State.

Mr Chairman, before I turn to the hon member for Standerton I would like to mention that we are making history today. We are indeed making history! More than a century ago a Bill was passed in the then Assembly of the Free State Republic in terms of which members of the Asian community were restricted from coming to the Free State. They could not reside in the Free State. They were not allowed to stay in the Free State for longer than a couple of hours. This particular Act was repealed a couple of years ago. This revocation was unanimously recommended by the NP Congress in the Free State just before it was repealed. Today—this is remarkable—the Free State is accommodated in the Chamber of the House of Delegates here in Cape Town. [Interjections.] This event is therefore of historical importance. I would like to have this on record. Today we have, in my opinion, overcome the last barrier between the communities of the Indian people and the inhabitants of the Free State. It is also remarkable that this particular obsolete Act is the Act that the CP would like to reinstitute if they should ever come to power. [Interjections.]

*Mr Chairman, I want to come back to the hon member for Standerton. He raised a few matters to which I must react. In the first place I want to thank him for his loyalty as a Free Stater. I am not a born Free Stater. I was born in the Northern Transvaal. [Interjections.] I immigrated to the Free State, where I became a full-blooded Free Stater! I became a better Free Stater than the hon member became, who was a born Free Stater. I am a member of the NP and I think that is where the difference comes in.

We do not begrudge the hon member his boast or two about the strength of the CP in the Free State, because we also need our political exercise. We thank the CP for the exercise they give us.

I also want to make use of this opportunity, as a legal man, to mete out a few reprimands. The hon member admonished the hon MEC entrusted with hospital services, who is present here, about something that happened last year. I cannot recall the incident in its entirety but I do not think it was quite fair. In the first place the hon member gagged the hon MEC by telling him that he was not allowed to talk politics, but then went on to do so himself. Surely he knows the expression audi alteram partem. I think he must give the hon MEC a chance to defend himself against those allegations.

Order! The hon speaker must help me now. I am not a legal man. Would he please explain that term to me in lay terms.

Sir, audi alteram partem means “hear the other side”.

I should also like to say a few words to the hon member for Lichtenburg. This morning he gave himself out to be an expert on history, and with limited correctness, which also applies to his political party, he mentioned the situation in Europe, namely that there had been wars and as a result of wars national states had come into existence. The CP is sadly lacking in historical perspective. What is happening at present in Europe? At present we have an economic unity in Europe. What is happening in respect of the planning of an eventual European parliament? [Interjections.] We shall see. We shall let history take its course. We shall simply wait and see what happens. That party displays the same limited historical perspective when it comes to the urbanisation of Whites. The hon member for Opkoms expressed an opinion on that issue.

I want to come back to the aspect of civil defence in the budget under discussion. In respect of civil defence I should like to divide my argument into three parts. In the first place I should like to give attention to the way in which civil defence operates. In the second place I should like to glance briefly at the problems experienced by civil defence during the flood disasters last year and in the third place I should like to advance an argument in favour of a new approach in regard to civil defence.

The concept of civil defence originated in the late seventies and assumed a specific pattern. This pattern was formulated on the basis of specific instructions and guides. The purpose of civil defence, to summarise it briefly, is to combat the consequences of a disaster. Consequently civil defence has a reactive and not so much a proactive role. Disasters are classified into natural disasters, as we experienced last year, industrial disasters, disasters as a result of hostile acts, man-made disasters, and so on. One could elaborate in this way on the various kinds of disasters with which a community could be confronted.

The executive arm of civil defence is the local authorities. This places a major administrative, financial and operational responsibility on local authorities. The emergency services of local authorities normally function independently or with a limited degree of co-ordination with other services. Civil defence has now resulted in a new concept of overall command and in terms of this the actions taken by each service are determined in accordance with a joint emergency plan. This emergency plan is becoming complicated in as far as other authorities, organisations and private persons are becoming involved.

This wider involvement introduces a foreign dimension into local authorities, which cannot, without implications, be incorporated into any of the existing divisions or departments. Consequently civil defence cuts across all the activities of the local authorities and brings with it activities not normally carried out by the local authorities. Some of these activities which are foreign to the local authorities are the recruiting of corps members, the administration and training of these members, and the provision of emergency accommodation, food and clothing.

For the sake of co-ordination it is desirable that the town clerk should be in charge of civil defence, because he is in the position of authority to issue instructions. In practice, however, the town clerk can at most co-ordinate. One can only co-ordinate when the foundation has already been laid. Consequently amended ordinances made provision for the appointment of other persons as heads of civil defence. The result is that one or more officials, under the control and the authority of the town clerk, will give attention to the practical aspects of civil defence.

In the second place I should like to give attention to a few problems experienced during the flood disasters last year. Profuse thanks were conveyed last year to civil defence and the province for what was done in respect of the floods, but I should just like to do so again.

However, there were also a few problems that were identified during this flood disaster and I should just like to discuss these with hon members.

The first problem was one of misunderstanding and conflict between organisations, persons and departments. Conflicts and misunderstandings also occurred as a result of failure to give recognition to civil defence as an organisation that has an interest in those kind of actions which are desirable during an emergency such as a flood disaster. The interests of civil defence and its actions were not always properly assessed. Some departments and bodies regarded civil defence merely as the name of an organisation without any authority.

In the same vein, in support of this allegation, there is the fact that the media and authorities were inclined to give recognition to more dramatic actions, such as the rescue of marooned persons rather than give recognition in all respect to civil defence.

A second problem experienced was one of communication. Communication in the management and operation of any organisation is very important. In this respect they experienced specific problems—problems with regard to radio and telephone communications which could definitely be eliminated by giving attention to the standard and utilisation of equipment and the training of the operators.

A third problem that was identified related to the question of emergency supplies and relief aid. Appeals to the public for clothing, food and so on were made injudiciously, and gave rise to problems. Comprehensive guidelines for all matters concerning stock control and the handling of stocks on a large scale do not exist. In addition donations were not always judiciously made. Luxury items and commodities that could not be used were received.

A very important aspect is the packaging of supplies. Tinned food, perishable goods and clothing were packed in the same containers together with other commodities, and this ultimately delayed the relief aid activities. Moreover the sorting, storing, issuing and transportation of supplies became a task which in my opinion was of far greater magnitude than has so far been accepted. It is also clear that the responsibility for emergency supplies and relief aid cannot summarily and suddenly be transferred from the civil defence organisation to another department or body.

A further problem was that leaders in the community, no matter how good their intentions, were not informed about the procedures in regard to requests for relief aid. Certain groups concentrated more on luxuries and on standard rather than on essentials. In addition other departments and organisations exerted pressure on civil defence with all kinds of prescriptions and inquiries. This single matter in itself almost precipitated a major crisis.

A further problem was rescue operations and evacuation, which were delayed and made more difficult in that clear place indicators or references, such as clear co-ordinates, were not available. Maps in the control rooms were not up to date in regard to the number of inhabitants on the farms or to their composition. And all these things delayed or at least impeded the activities of civil defence.

A very important aspect, and one in regard to which I think everyone will have to be addressed very clearly, regardless of their political ties or racial groups, is the question of attitudes and conduct, as well as possible mental states, which do not receive attention in the planning of civil defence activities.

People were dismayed and despondent. They were in need of spiritual care and it is my opinion that more attention will have to be given to these aspects. A few examples in this connection is that in some places Black people refused to off-load supplies unless they were paid. Some Coloureds did not want to stay in tents, and were not satisfied with the rations. Farm workers, and in certain cases municipal workers as well, did not report for work but went to stay in the tent towns so that they would be cared for free of charge. This went even further. It went as far as the farmers. It happened that unreasonable and selfish requests were received from some farmers and relatives outside the flood disaster area. Attention could definitely be given to these aspects if specific attention is given to the whole issue of human relations. I shall come back to this towards the end of my speech. There was no single emergency plan for the care of marooned travellers, and provision ought to be made among those persons who have been marooned for whiling away the time and entertaining themselves so as to counteract boredom and frustration. Of course it must not be so pleasant that one would rather be marooned than travel further. Further problems were that looting, theft and illegal trafficking occurred in affected areas. Dead animals also created a health hazard. Counteractive measures were extremely difficult to adopt and apply. Stock theft occurred. Illegal trafficking in the meat of drowned and dead game also occurred.

This brings me in the third place to a new approach to civil defence—a new approach which I think can eliminate some of these problems. Now hon members will of course ask what this new approach entails. It amounts to greater involvement—greater involvement on the part of the public. One must admit that uninvolvement on the part of the public is a fact. Why does the public not become involved? Is it owing to a lack of interest? I think the reply to that is very clearly no. I think the lack of involvement on the part of the public goes much deeper. It lies therein that there is a lack of meaningful activities on an ongoing basis in civil defence. This is the first problem that must be resolved.

This will entail an involvement on the part of the members of civil defence corps and welfare services, but at most in a supportive capacity because specific welfare services do exist. The supportive capacity in welfare involves elements such as addiction to liquor and drugs, child abuse and child molestation.

Further involvement can be achieved by involving neighbourhood watch members as civil defence corps members and vice versa, which will mean that civil defence corps members can also become members of neighbourhood watches. I understand that this co-ordination has already been established in some towns. In this way civil defence becomes a living and proactive organisation. Activities which serve as incentives make the incorporation of volunteers easier. In addition, as a result of its wide-spread activities, a great deal of attention will have to be given to the educational and upliftment task of civil defence. In this connection what I have in mind in particular is inter-group relations. Civil defence ought to be established as a managerial activity which can become involved in training in various disciplines. Civil defence activities must be used to establish the concept of civil defence as an essential activity on the part of local authorities, and here one thinks specifically of Blacks who are standing on the threshold of local government activities.

In this connection I think it is necessary for the employer to regard civil defence as an essential civil activity and recognise it as such. In this way it can also filter through and begin to take root in the Black population in general.

I should like to thank the province and the hon the Administrator who is already making provision, via his civil defence arm, for a civil defence component in Black local authorities in terms of section 24(2) of the Black Local Authorities Act. I want to express my gratitude and appreciation for that. On that ground I say that civil defence is a colour-blind organisation. When a person is in trouble colour is not a factor. The issue is quite simply a life that has to be saved. I therefore think that once one can establish this principle among local authorities one has gone a long way towards establishing goodwill between the respective population groups.

A matter which could well be considered is the possible change of the designation “civil defence”. The designation civil defence, as I understand it, apparently has a connotation of being a semi-military organisation among the other population groups. One should perhaps think up another name for it. I am not ingenious enough to think up another name. Something like community first aid or something similar could be used. There are enough people involved in this exercise. Secondly civil defence can also fulfil its reactive role. If it is able, in this capacity, to fulfil a proactive role through assimilation in the various population groups it will still be able to fulfil its reactive role in emergency situations, which in cases of disasters can positively promote the relations pattern.

I conclude by conveying my gratitude and appreciation to the hon the Administrator, his Executive Committee and officials for the very valuable work which is being done in all spheres, but particularly in respect of civil defence.

Business suspended at 12h45 and resumed at 14h15.

Afternoon Sitting

Mr Chairman, I would like to associate myself with the sentiments and condolences expressed by the previous speakers through the chairman for those members of our society who died in SWA.

As I did last year, I wish at the outset to place on record my own and my people’s gratitude to the three Houses of Parliament for the responsible manner in which they handled the legislation affecting my people. I refer in particular to the pass laws, influx control, freehold rights and many others. I wish to thank them for this magnificent gesture of goodwill.

It cannot be overemphasised that the policy of the Administration of the OFS is to try to establish the best way of life possible for all its inhabitants in the shortest period of time possible. Our Administration has also adopted a positive policy to play an active role and to be a directing partner in the establishment of local government in all its facets, as a firm and sound basis for the new constitutional dispensation in our country.

It is common knowledge that, as a result of historical factors, very few Black local authorities are in a position to provide in all the needs of their communities without additional financial assistance. The level of income of approximately 80% of Black families is below R250 per month, which means that they cannot afford sophisticated municipal services. In turn, this amounts to insufficient income for the local authority. In most cases the smaller local authorities, of which there are 58 in the province, cannot even afford the salaries of the essential key staff members whom they have to employ in order to maintain a skeleton administration.

It is felt that some kind of formula will have to be devised to assist these local authorities financially. It is however of the utmost importance that this proposed formula be applied to all local authorities in the country in a uniform manner so as to remove the existing impression that in some of the other provinces large amounts of bridging finance are being handed out to local authorities without proper control of estimates, expenditure and budgeting.

On the topic of housing, the shortage thereof is not peculiar to the OFS, but it is a country-wide problem.

*The main reason for this is that the majority of the country’s inhabitants cannot afford their own homes. Because of this, heavy demands are being made on the limited finances of local authorities to provide an acceptable form of housing to those who cannot afford to provide it for themselves. At the moment, only a small percentage of inhabitants can afford to obtain loans from the private sector for buying or building homes.

It should be mentioned that financial institutions do not wish to become actively involved in the smaller centres—the rural towns. Their defence is that the housing market in these areas is very weak and that houses are not easily resold in cases where the buyers of those houses have been unable to meet their financial obligations.

However, it is gratifying to see that organisations such as the South African Housing Trust, the Urban Foundation and private developers are increasingly helping to provide infrastructure and housing. The large percentage of loans obtained from the National Housing Commission for housing purposes indicates that we are moving in the right direction, namely the provision of housing for those who cannot provide their own. Thanks to the auxiliary self-help housing scheme, which makes it possible to obtain loans of up to R6 000 for materials and up to R1 000 for labour, houses can be provided for the low-cost housing category.

Housing sales are doing well in the Free State. Of the 21 000 houses available in the province, almost 7 000 have been sold.

As far as human relations in the Free State are concerned, good progress is being made. We believe that good human relations begin with the individual. When the individual has been properly educated and his heart is in the right place, human relations are not a problem.

†Since taking over the responsibility for providing social welfare services, the Province of the Orange Free State has brought itself into line with the central Government’s declared policy that the RSA is not a welfare State. The Province of the Orange Free State holds that it should not accept the sole responsibility for the provision and financing of welfare services. This must be seen as the joint venture of the Province of the Orange Free State, the private sector and the local authority.

*I just want to assure the hon member for Southern Free State that the incident at the Philip Sanders resort was just a storm in a teacup—nothing to write home about.

The 18 libraries under construction in Black townships, to which my Administrator referred, are as welcome as an oasis in a waterless desert. They will also complement and support the courageous project of the Department of Education and Training involving adult education centres. These are places where adults are given a second chance to study further.

†I would like to say that the Black communities in the Free State are overwhelmingly stable. However, I must hasten to add that the one single factor that seriously threatens this stability is the lack of classroom accommodation in Black schools in the Free State in general and in the Free State goldfields in particular.

I will refer to one or two examples. At Phiritona in Heilbron a primary school was burnt down in 1985 through a short circuit. It was not an unrest-related incident. That school has not been rebuilt up to this day. One can imagine what problems there are in Phiritona.

There is a school by the name of Kgauhelo in the Ventersburg district. Here one finds that the classroom to pupil density is 1:68,8. The school has 28 classrooms and an enrolment of 1 927 pupils with classes ranging from Sub A up to Standard 9. That was last year—I suppose it is up to Standard 10 this year.

Another example is the Bahale Secondary School at Hennenman where the ratio of classrooms to pupils is 1:74. This is a secondary school. This is unheard of. In the 37 years that I was connected with the schools in the Free State we never had this kind of situation.

*I have no wish to interfere with educational matters, but when a school is a destabilising factor in a community, then I am involved. These schools tend to destabilise Black communities. That is the reason for my involvement.

If one wants to make a parent unhappy, one has only to tell him that the school cannot accommodate his child. The teachers, too, are feeling very unhappy and frustrated. The classes are unmanageable, and the poor principal does not know what to do.

We have come to a stage where secondary schools are operating in shifts. Half the pupils attend school in the morning, and at 12 o’clock they have to go home. Then the rest of the children have their turn. The school has only one principal. I really feel the Cabinet should give distinct guidelines on this urgent and burning issue.

I do not wish to discuss the schools in Welkom. The Virginia Secondary School also has a system of shifts.

When one talks to the educational authorities, they say that all this will be rectified. When? We do not know. That is what worries me in our Black communities. I do not know what to do any more, but I think the hon members of the Committee could do something to determine exactly how many classrooms are needed in the Free State. This is an urgent need, and as I have said, it tends to destabilise the Black communities.

Mr Chairman, I am pleased to take part in the discussion on this Free State Budget. The hon member for Bloemfontein North mentioned that, thanks to the leader of the NP in the Free State, the hon the Minister of Justice, there had been discussions to permit our Indian brothers into the Free State. The hon the Minister met the Labour Party in the President Hotel to discuss these matters regarding our brothers. It was agreed on what my party’s policy was to be: Every person should be permitted to live without hindrance where he could afford to live or where he wanted to live in the land of his birth.

My brothers on the other side, from whom we actually descend, will ask me why I say this. Hon members know I have the surname of Grobbler. Where did this surname originate? Does it not come from my White brothers? The first bond between us is that we have inherited our fathers’ surnames. I therefore have Brown blood and I know that I have Black and White blood in me. The blood of all the nations flows in us.

I am pleased that our Indian brothers may be accommodated in the Free State and trade there. I now have many friends in the Free State. The Administrator knows that there are a few of them at the old market and at one of the large undertakings in the city. Indians run large businesses in Bloemfontein. I want to reassure them by saying that they are welcome in the Free State.

Many people quarrelled and said that there were no residential areas. I almost said that the hon member for Actonville was fighting about group areas when he said there was no room. Bloemfontein has many flats standing empty, of which some are up for rent. Just let them go and take a look and forget about group areas. There are flats in the Free State which our people can afford.

I want to revert to human relations. Mr Mokotjo spoke well on human relations. I am very pleased that there are excellent human relations in the Free State. One is able to ask the Administrator of the Free State anything and he is always available. The Bloemfontein City Council is the same. It is the most wonderful city council which one could find and I am speaking from experience today. With that city council and that Administrator we have made the Free State what it is today. We know one another, we know about one another, we think for one another, we like one another, we defend one another and we still pray together. Where do other hon members get the idea in saying that there will be problems if one brings people together? I cannot see how this can happen. God is too wise to make a mistake. I want to say to our CP brothers: Come back and repent, my White brothers—come back and obtain insight from the Lord who created you. He also created me in His image. We must not hurt or spurn one another; this does not work.

I want to revert to this Budget. As regards the small amount of money which we received in the Free State, I want to tell the hon the Administrator that I am aware that he is well versed in the administration of the Free State and that he handles money as it should be handled. He will share the money with every community and give them what they are entitled to.

We shall have to ensure that there is no duplication. I know that people become angry when I speak about duplication because everyone wants to be on his own. We must not have duplication, however, because it costs a great deal of money. Apartheid has cost us a great deal of money. It has almost brought South Africa to bankruptcy. I think that seen as a whole our expenditure and our revenue do not balance in this country. This is a consequence of these apartheid laws. I do not know where these things originated but I can say that these apartheid laws are evil in origin. One cannot argue this away; it is the truth.

When we dealt with Free State affairs in the Free State a year ago, my objection was that the point at issue was the haves and the have-nots. We of colour are the have-nots; that is why we appeal to our hon Administrator to ensure that the interests of those of colour are guarded. Their need is very great. I know that the hon the Administrator of the Free State will do his best to assist us in this.

We have a place in Bloemfontein called Bloemarea. This is a beautiful big place which is being developed at present and we appreciate the fact that the development is taking place in the Free State. This area, Bloemarea, will obviously provide many people with work but …

You must be referring to Bloemdustria.

Yes, that falls under Bloemfontein. Bloemdustria is a very good thing. It is situated near Bloemfontein. What worries me, however, is the allowance to these factories. They receive an allowance from the Government now. I hope that the same yardstick will be used as regards factories in Bloemdustria as those at Onverwacht—that place sprang up so unexpectedly and is so huge! Those factories are subsidised and assisted. I want to request that Bloemdustria be dealt with in the same way. Surely we are providing people with essential work in Bloemfontein. I have about 24 men from Botshabelo who work for me. Why do we not receive the same as those on the other side? This is unjust.

You have to apply.

No, Mr Chairman, we have applied. We merely want the same yardstick to be used. The hon member does not know what he is talking about. The same yardstick is not applied to us in Bloemfontein as to the people in Botshabelo. This is unjust. We request the hon the Administrator to investigate this matter.

I now get to resorts. As regards the Philip Sanders Resort, I want to thank the hon the Administrator for the beautiful pleasure resort which has been created there. I want to express my thanks that he asked for it for so many years and it is there now. We appreciate this. There are still many things lacking at this pleasure resort, however. I am pleased to see that staff housing is being constructed there as well as tennis courts, mini-golf and loudspeakers provided. Nevertheless I do not see a soccer field being laid out there and we are people who are very fond of playing soccer. Five hectares of land is being purchased to enlarge this place. This pleasure resort is so beautiful that all are willing to go swimming there and enjoy themselves. We are pleased about this but there are too few facilities at the pleasure resort. There is one swimming pool and, if everybody jumps into that pool, nobody will be able to swim. They will only be able to jump about. [Interjections.] I stood and watched! I am serious. Once people are in that pool, they cannot all swim. They just jump about here and there. I cannot accept this! The swimming pool should either be enlarged or another one built for us. One swimming pool is inadequate if we take the number of people who go there into account.

The hon member for Western Free State said that there were demonstrations among the people. They demonstrated because from the start … I wonder whether I dare be naughty … [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I should like to associate myself with the sympathy expressed with you on your loss by other speakers. I should also like to thank and congratulate the Administration, the hon the Administrator and the hon MECs here, as well as the staff, for the good work which we believe they are doing in the Free State.

Before continuing, I want to say that I should also like to associate myself with the previous speaker. I cannot be as humorous as he was, but he did draw attention to the shortage of employment and equal opportunities. The hon MEC Mr Mokotjo also referred to this matter. In this regard I want to point to the wonderful work that is being done in the Free State. While the PFP is not present today, the rest of us are doing our work.

In the Orange Free State people are constantly striving to render an efficient library service to all who live in the province. There are also signs of large contributions and positive breakthroughs in this regard. Public libraries are seen as important institutions and as instruments which can do much to promote community development.

I should like to quote from The Economic Development in the Third World, a book which was written by an expert. He refers to—

and then goes on to identify the following three important aspects:

In the preamble to the Republic’s Constitution the Government committed itself inter alia to improving the well-being of all its citizens, and in order to realise this ideal, we have to do many things. Development implies, inter alia, that people’s standards of living should be raised. Mention has already been made in this debate of the necessity for creating conditions which will improve people’s self-esteem and enhance their right to exercise choice by enlarging the range of choices. No development can take place without information.

Reference was made to deficient educational standards. A library and an information service are essential to improve matters in this regard. Modern society cannot function without information when providing goods and services.

All information must be available to all people. It must be provided in all formats, through all communication channels and on all levels of comprehension. This is a very broad definition which nearly overwhelmed me when I read it. However, that is how the library service of the Free State sees its role. One can hardly believe that over and above the existing educational activities—the library programmes for children, the recreational activities, the cultural activities such as exhibitions, the toy libraries, and even the available video material—there is time for additional activities in a modern library.

Nevertheless, in 1672 William Ramsay said: “A few good books is better than a library.” It is an astonishing fact, however, that to this day people still equate a library with a collection of books and do not understand that it is necessary to undertake a sifting process in order to select the quality of the books. Even as far back as 400 BC Aristhopus Max said that reading usefully, not reading widely would lead to excellence. The modern library bases its motto on this principle of usefulness.

The Saayman Report was accepted as a vision for the library institute during the meeting of the South African Institute for Libraries and Information which was held in Windhoek in 1986, and it was decided to try to implement this vision. The Free State Subdirectorate was appointed for this purpose in co-operation with the Vaal Triangle Library Cooperation Association. The aim of the report was to enable libraries to contribute efficiently as information centres to the social, economic and political needs of all the communities of the Republic of South Africa.

The necessity of the library as a nucleus for information was pointed out and a request was made for a clear focus on the task of the librarian and on a careful definition of the exact nature of development. Seen from a social angle, we find today, in the 20th century, parents who buy medicines and cannot even read the label on the bottle. Whereas television is gaining influence, we are becoming deficient readers. Our people cannot read and educational standards are deteriorating. It is also true that we are lacking in many services which the library could provide. I can mention health and emergency services, the economic services that are already rendered, press cutting services and the provision of information on small business development—in this respect I am thinking particularly of the informal sector.

Unfortunately no one can escape the political ideological struggle today and libraries will have to hold their own very objectively in these strong currents which are swirling around them. They will have to take regional differences into account. The Free State was described as an agricultural province. Why not then provide coping information to the people who live and work there? They need this information in order to survive. As early as 1986 the following was said:

The Free State recently made a wonderful breakthrough in this regard and has already made 18 libraries available.

When this service is made available, it is very important to know exactly what such a community looks like and exactly who the final consumer is. In order to do this, the Sub-directorate: Library Services undertook a market survey and on the basis of socio-economic and scientific facts, determined exactly what each community looked like and started drawing up its profile. It is interesting to note that this new approach has already led to the acceptance of new programmes and to an efficient utilisation of technological aids. A very scientific method was followed and a data base, which will have a much wider application than only for library services, has been made available.

The expertise of our personnel has been put to the best possible use and it is also a great honour for our small province to serve as a guide and an example for the other provinces. I should like to quote the Deputy Director of Library Services since he was the project leader for this undertaking. He said:

I should like to conclude with the following quotation from The Republic by Plato. Plato said: “Those who have a torch, should pass it on to others.” This is our instruction to the Subdirectorate: Library Services, to which we add our best wishes and our great appreciation for the work they have done. It is also heartening, and I think an honour and a privilege for the Free State, to mention, as an example of the renewing and reforming activities in South African politics, that we have already refurbished two libraries for Whites and made 18 available for Blacks. We look forward to further information from the hon MEC in this regard.

Mr Chairman, it is indeed a historic occasion today as the hon member for Bloemfontein North mentioned earlier before our lunch break.

Therefore, I would like to welcome the hon the Administrator and his executive here today in the House of Delegates.

I visited the Free State for the first time last year and I must say that the people I met were very friendly and very hospitable. I do not blame them for that because I think they take after the hon the Administrator who was very friendly and very helpful in the Free State last year. I also want to thank my colleagues in the House of Representatives for welcoming the Indian community into the Free State, and they promised the Indian community that they would give them all the assistance that they require.

I wish to compliment the hon the Administrator on the report that he has given us this morning but we would appreciate it if the report could be made available a day before the opening of our session in future.

Although we are very disappointed that this extended public committee could not meet in the provincial capital to discuss the provincial budgets and other provincial affairs where the public could have been present—because this would give us the opportunity to report in public on the activities of the province and to explain for which services the funds budgeted for in the current financial year will be utilised—this is part of the new constitutional dispensation and the hon the Administrator explained to us the difficulties in getting a suitable venue. We accepted his explanation and he has promised us that in future he will make the necessary arrangements.

The majority of the Indian community in South Africa are loyal South African citizens who are prepared to work hard, not only to support their families but also to make sure that it contributes to the development of this province. As far as housing for the Indian community is concerned, it will be greatly appreciated if the hon the Administrator and his team of dedicated men will assist the Administration: House of Delegates in expediting the establishment of areas for housing. Families who have moved to the Orange Free State are living in cramped conditions. Historically Indians have come to South Africa with a farming background. They have been of tremendous help in contributing to the economic boom in this country. Therefore, more land should be made available to encourage our people to do farming in the Orange Free State.

Hon members would agree that the agricultural industry is a highly developed industry which has to compete not only on the South African market but also abroad.

In regard to schooling for the Indian children in the Free State, I have written a letter to the hon the Minister of Education and Culture in the House of Delegates and I have asked him what progress has been made in the Free State as far as the education of Indian children is concerned. I would like to quote from a letter that was addressed to me. This letter comes from the hon the Minister of Education and Culture, Mr K Ramduth. He says that he had discussions about this matter with his colleague Mr P J Clase, the hon the Minister of Education and Culture in the House of Assembly, to seek assistance. He states:

He goes on to say:

Thirdly he says:

1. 1. An Indian group area has been proclaimed at Harrismith and a primary school site has been provided in the proposed township.
2. 2. The Group Areas Board has approved the establishment of an Indian group area at a place known as Whites in Hennenman which is near Virginia. This group area has not yet been proclaimed.
3. 3. The local authority of Bethlehem have indicated that they are keen to develop an Indian group area.
4. 4. My department will continue to monitor the establishment of Indian group areas in the Orange Free State, including residential and housing development, with a view to providing the necessary education facilities.

I make an earnest appeal to the Administrator that he should try to assist this department of the House of Delegates in getting the various townships proclaimed.

In conclusion I wish to take this opportunity to thank the hon the Administrator and his Executive for what they are doing for the Indian community of the Free State.

Mr Chairman, I should like to begin by identifying myself with the sentiments that have been expressed here this morning. I think I may speak on behalf of our hon Administrator, as well as my hon colleagues in the Executive Committee, in sympathising with you in the loss that you and other members of your family have suffered.

We also wish to sympathise with those who have had to lay down their lives, to make the supreme sacrifice, in the struggle for liberation there in Namibia.

Some very lighthearted references were made this morning to the recent municipal elections. Lighthearted remarks were made about who had won and who had lost and who had only just made it. I think this may be a very appropriate occasion for reflecting on the course of events during the municipal elections recently held among the Coloured communities of the Free State.

In the local government sphere, the most exciting event was undoubtedly the elections on 26 October 1988, when all population groups throughout the country went to the polls to elect new local authorities for their respective communities and towns. In the Free State, the elections took place among the Coloured population group against the background of a broadening of the electoral qualifications applicable to individual voters, aimed at enabling more people to qualify as voters and to participate in this way in the democratic election of their local authorities.

To illustrate the broadening of electoral qualifications, to which I have already referred, I should like to mention, for the information of hon members, that up to 26 October last year, the Local Government: Coloured Persons Ordinance, 1963—Ordinance No 12 of 1963—and the regulations relating to the management committees for Coloured group areas, as promulgated in terms of Administrator’s Notice No 1, provided that in order to qualify as a voter, a person had to be at least 18 years old and had to be the owner of immovable property or to have occupied a dwelling for at least six months. Although these qualifications still apply, an additional qualification has been added in terms of which parliamentary voters who have been inhabitants of a town for at least six months may also vote. In this way the number of people who qualify as voters has been considerably increased. To say that the elections in the eight Coloured towns in the Free State where management committee elections were held were a resounding success, is to put it mildly.

The following figures should give an indication of the degree of success and participation achieved. In Baken Park, near Bethlehem, the percentage poll was almost 60%. In Brent Park, near Kroonstad, 66% of the electorate cast their votes. Bronville, the Coloured township at Welkom, had the second highest percentage poll, namely 92%. In the process, no fewer than 20 candidates contested the five management committee positions. In Heidedal, near Bloemfontein, the seven vacancies were likewise contested by 20 candidates, and the percentage poll was almost 70%. In Sandersville, at Heilbron, five members were elected unopposed. In Sandershoogte, near Jacobsdal, 66% of the electorate cast their votes, and at Schonkenville, near Parys, 93% of the electorate went to the polls to elect their five committee members. Williamsville, near Springfontein, also achieved excellent results and elected its five members with a percentage poll of 82%. The average percentage poll in the Free State for the election of Coloured management committees comes to an incredible 79%, therefore, which is undoubtedly the highest in the country among any population group. I wish to state that in the results of the October elections, the Coloured population group in the Free State proved its bona fides beyond all doubt. By adopting this course, the Coloured group has accepted the challenge of helping to develop, with the necessary responsibility and recognition, not only its own community or towns, but the whole of the Free State and of South Africa. Perseverance, determination and a willingness to work hard are qualities that are typical of the people of the Free State, and with these attributes at our disposal we shall do our utmost to promote the well-being of our province and our country.

I want to make some more observations about local government as it affects the Coloured people in the Free State. Steps are already being taken, and in some cases an advanced stage has been reached, in order to establish Coloured management committees in towns such as Edenhoogte, near Edenburg, Trompsburg—that is Noordmanville—Bergmanshoogte, near Philippolis, Caledon Park, near Ficksburg, Cloete’s Park, near Bethulie, Rietpoort, near Smithfield, and Vredeshoop, near Vredefort.

Several group areas have also been proclaimed during the past year: Rietpoort, Caledon Park, Edenhoogte, Reddersburg and Noordmanville. Satisfactory progress is being made at Mosanthalville, near Jagersfontein, Zastron, Luckhoff and Mauersnek, near Ladybrand, and matters should be finalised soon.

During last year’s session in Bloemfontein, I examined the functions of the administration’s library services in detail. Our hon Administrator also referred in his opening address to some of the most important aspects of this service, and I shall leave the matter at that, except for drawing hon members’ attention once again to the following aspects. The provision of library facilities for Blacks—and everything related to that—is at present a clearly defined general affairs function. The services for Coloured people and Whites are destined to become own affairs functions of the House of Representatives and the House of Assembly respectively.

However, the transfer of the functions to the two own affairs administrations has not yet been finalised, and in some cases this is inhibiting the provision of this service to the two communities. In spite of all the uncertainty, the library services branch is trying to render a satisfactory-service to all communities in the Free State.

As far as museums are concerned, the Provincial Administration is at present responsible for a national museum, the Nasionale Afrikaanse Letterkundige Museum en Navorsingsentrum, or NALN for short, as well as four provincial and nine local museums—14 museums in all. The NALN and the provincial museums are fully financed by the administration as regards the provision of buildings and the equipment, staffing, maintenance and administration of the museums.

As far as local museums are concerned, the policy is for local authorities to make suitable buildings available which will be taken over, restored or renovated, and maintained by the administration. The administration is responsible for all aspects of the establishment and professional maintenance of these museums, but local authorities administer the museums and provide the curators who run the museums in consultation with and with the assistance of the administration. Local museums are being dealt with on more or less the same basis as public libraries, therefore.

The classification of museums as own and general affairs by a special Cabinet committee resulted in 10 Free State museums—four provincial and six local ones—being classified as own affairs. The Ministers’ Council of the House of Assembly subsequently decided that it wished to administer its own museums. The various aspects concerning the take-over of the 10 museums involved are at present being resolved by the Administration: House of Assembly in co-operation with the provincial administration.

On the face of it, the transfer of own affairs museums to the Administration: House of Assembly will have a fairly dramatic effect on the number of museums retained by the provincial administration. However, the following aspects must be borne in mind. The NALN is being retained as a general affairs museum. It has a unique and important function as far as museums in the Orange Free State are concerned. The museums destined to be transferred are well-established and require little maintenance or attention. Their transfer will not have major implications for museum activities in the Orange Free State. The establishment of museums with general affairs themes has not received a great deal of attention in the Orange Free State, and a lot of work remains to be done in this connection. Since the official classification of museums, a museum with mainly general affairs themes has been established in Welkom. Museum staff have always been involved in conservation in general in the Orange Free State, and co-operation and liaison with other interested parties in this connection will continue.

I now wish to deal with State motor transport, which is a relatively new function of the administration. On 25 May 1988, the Cabinet gave its approval for the devolution of mainly executive functions in respect of State motor transport from the Department of Transport to the provincial administrations as from 1 April 1988. In terms of this, the provincial administrations are responsible for the following: The acquisition and replacement of State and subsidised motor transport; the allocation of State motor vehicles; and subsidised motor vehicles to departments according to need; the maintenance of State motor vehicles; the administrative work in connection with accidents and losses; the efficient operation of Government garages; providing departments with technical advice; the receipt, storage and internal issuing of spare parts and specific consumable supplies; the arrangement of motor transport for official functions; the evaluation of the economic utilisation of vehicles and the operation of a vehicle management and information system in respect of State motor transport.

As against this, the Department of Transport, in consultation with the provincial administrations, is responsible for the following: The development of guidelines for the acquisition, allocation, utilisation and maintenance of subsidised and State motor vehicles; the establishment of norms and standards in respect of State motor transport; monitoring the suitability of the norms and standards laid down; research in connection with the economic acquisition, utilisation and maintenance of State motor vehicles; the determination of tariff structures for the various categories of transport; the development and maintenance of a uniform computerised vehicle management and information system; and the purchase and maintenance of official vehicles for Ministers and other political office-holders.

In order to ensure that the devolution of functions proceeded smoothly and to promote uniformity, the Co-ordinating Committee for State Motor Transport was established at the request of the Commission for Administration. The four provinces are represented on this committee and they meet regularly under the guidance of the Department of Transport. Treasury is also represented.

From the outset, the following aspects have been identified for investigation by the committee: Practical arrangements concerning the provision of motor vehicles and alternate drivers for dignitaries; ascertaining the needs that exist in respect of the provision of vehicles, equipment and the funds involved; dealing with vehicles that move across provincial boundaries; applying a uniform vehicle management and information system; preparing and publishing uniform users’ manuals and providing uniform log statements and related forms. In this connection, I just want to mention that when State motor transport was transferred to the province, it was not accompanied by the transfer of all the staff involved. The result is that provision has been made only for clerical staff in order to do justice to this function. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I would like to associate myself with the sympathy which has been expressed for you as Chairman and for the people and families who have died on the border.

At the same time I want to welcome the hon the Deputy Minister to the House. I think it would have been far better if the hon the Deputy Minister had come and stood in my place because he would have been able to make a better speech with regard to what is actually happening on the border. I think hon members will agree that instead of listening to my Lamentations of Jeremiah they would rather listen to the hon the Deputy Minister. The hon the Deputy Minister and I are colleagues in Kroonstad and we have a reasonably good understanding.

I would like to welcome him here. I would like to mention one little matter to the hon the Administrator on behalf of the hon Chairman. It relates to the provision of electricity to the Black township of Borwa in Tweespruit. According to what the hon Chairman has told me, there is a great deal of disturbance there. On his behalf I would like to ask the hon the Administrator for his assistance in looking into the needs of our people in Tweespruit. This is a delicate matter with which the hon Chairman has apparently been concerned for quite a while.

My constituency is Western Free State, and I regret to have to announce today that a serious disease has broken out in the maize fields of the North-Western Free State. Our maize in the Free State has large cobs and grows very tall. This disease has broken out in the areas of Welkom and Kroonstad. Actually I should not mention Kroonstad, because we do not have such diseases in Kroonstad. It is more towards the south.

The mealies with the disease have many leaves, much hair and large cobs, but no flesh. There are only a few kernels on a cob. I have heard that the scientific name for this disease which has afflicted the maize in Welkom is the AWB-CP alliance. [Interjections.] The hon members here apparently admitted just now that they were not all born in the Free State. I was not born in the Free State. I come from the area of Randfontein where the hon members of the Mulder family live. [Interjections.] However, I am very pleased that I have left that constituency and that I now live in the Free State, because it is really a lovely place. My parents have been in the Free State for the past 30 years, although I grew up in Randfontein. I have become so fond of the Free State that like the other hon members, I feel that I am a fully-fledged Free Stater today.

We do not really want any other political parties in the Free State. The Free State does not have many funds. The hon the Administrator may confirm this in his appropriation. I will return to this later. Nevertheless, it is true that those of us who are Free Staters, would like to stand together. I can assure hon members that the voters of Welkom themselves will decide about the disease which has broken out there, and get rid of it on their own. This is already happening. During the discussion of the part appropriation, the hon the Minister of Finance made it clear that the CP’s economic policy was bankrupt. Emanating from the questions which were asked yesterday, it is now once again clear that the CP’s policy with regard to hospitals and so on will also not succeed. There is definitely a shortage of doctors and nurses. I would like to know how the hon members of the CP are going to staff the hospital in Welkom with White nurses only in the years ahead. This will once again prove that the CP’s policy cannot succeed.

I would like to know what would happen to me in Kroonstad if the CP were to implement a homeland policy. I own property there and I would like to know how I would be removed. Would I be forced out at gunpoint or would my family and I simply be fetched one morning at 3 o’clock and moved? I would also like to know where my people and I would go then. We are few in number, but I would like to know from hon members of the CP who are going to speak after me where they would move me to. Would it be to the heartland, to Prof Boshofs new homeland, or where? These are things which the CP must spell out for us so that those of us on the other side of the town will also know what is going to happen to us.

The hon members must tell us what they are going to do with the millions of Blacks in the Transvaal and in the Free State. They must tell us how they are going to remove us and how they are going to incorporate us in the system. How are they going to implement an economic policy in an area with borders in the heart of South Africa? There is one airport, but where are they going to get the money for decent aeroplanes? Where are they going to get the money for a railway network to the nearest harbour? I think the hon members of the CP must spell that out to us.

It is very easy!

The hon member says it is very easy. I would like to listen to what they have to say, so that I can tell my voters what the policy of the CP is.

The hon member for Lichtenburg mentioned something with which I agree 100%. Many of my hon colleagues and many hon members of the NP will also agree with me in this regard. It relates to Black local towns. I believe that the whole argument of poor financial management and the whole development of Black towns rests on two principles. The historical background to this is already something of the past, but it has given rise to a terrific shortage of housing, of all basic amenities and in the creation of infrastructure. The NP’s policy has now changed to such a degree that permanent residence has very nearly been granted to Blacks. I cannot say that permanent residence has been granted to Blacks, because I still want to see the end of forced removals.

To return to the towns of the Free State, there are problems and we can only solve these problems by means of financial assistance. We can only solve these problems if we can determine the needs correctly through the Administrator.

I have a further problem with the financing afforded to the province out of the Budget. Just now I asked my colleague Mr Henney—incidentally, I have a great deal of respect for him and he does a lot for our people—what would happen if I were now to make an appeal for services. To my dismay, I then had to hear that after this Appropriation, the department would not be able to set aside a small sum for the development of a certain little town, Vredefort. I can tell hon members what the problem is in Vredefort. We need a few million rand to create an infrastructure.

In Vredefort the bucket system is still used. The Coloureds live just below the railway line, as usual. What happens is that the man with the night-cart has to pass there at night and if he is unable to finish his rounds, he has to do so during the day. He then goes past our township with what night-carts usually transport, and the smell which accompanies the cart, creates a great problem for our people. I know that this is a problem which really worries our people. [Interjections.] Hon members may perhaps laugh about the whole situation, but I am serious when I say that our people cannot live like that. When it rains, the water simply flows through our township.

We established gardens. Incidentally, Vredefort is one of the little places which developed into one of the most beautiful little towns in a period of 18 months. I want to tell the town clerk of Vredefort here in public that I am really impressed with what they achieved there, the gardens, the grass that was planted, the parks that were established. However, what happened when the rains came? The rains washed everything away. I asked Mr Mokotjo to look into this so that we could create an infrastructure in Vredefort. However, we are now faced with the problem that the province does not have the money to provide an instant solution to this. Speaking of solutions, I am at present looking for solutions for the management committees in my constituency—the problems are a shortfall in respect of appropriations and the fact that there is no money, not even to establish new services or to provide swimming pools or basic amenities. When I look at the appropriation of the province, I ask: If a library can be built for Whites and Black people, why must my Coloured residential area apply for a loan via the town council and the Administration: House of Representatives? Surely it is true that we have a capitalist system and that all loans have to be repaid. I can tell hon members that it is annoying that we are unable to obtain anything from the province. I do not see money being granted for Coloured residential areas anywhere.

I do not want to make a plea today for autonomous town councils in Coloured residential areas. However, what I would like to say is that we must find some way to channel money via the town councils to the local management committees. This is the way in which we can solve our problems. With regard to resorts, the province cannot provide us with a small local resort in a town, with day facilities. The province must provide us with regional pleasure resorts. However, this is where the problem arises because on a Saturday afternoon our people want to go to the river. There we need only a few rands. We thought that we would at least be able to obtain that from the province.

After all it is true that we have to obtain the money from somewhere, and if it is the case that the appropriation has been compiled in the interests of Whites and Black people, then I also want to make an appeal today for my people so that we can at least obtain money to do this in some way or other.

We now come to the regional services councils which the hon Mr Dreyer, MEC, mentioned. This is one of the ways in which money is going to be channelled to our people via the town council. We have been waiting for this since 1985/86. I approached Mr Dreyer in this regard then already and asked him: When is Kroonstad going to get its regional services council? The hon the Administrator explained this matter, but in the meantime, until this matter is completely resolved, we want help from the province. When we talk about this, I think immediately of my Black brothers and of the questions which were asked in this thick volume which I have before me, in connection with the care of handicapped children and the aged and a children’s home for the Black people in the North-Western Free State. In Kragbron, Sasolburg, there is a little place which has been placed on the market by the mine—by certain companies. I would like the hon the Administrator to look at the following places. In Hennenman, in Whites, there is a little place, unless of course it has already been sold to the House of Delegates, and in Kragbron near Sasolburg there is a place which can be used. The possibility of converting these places into a home for Black children, handicapped children or frail aged, must be looked into.

Mr Chairman, I take pleasure in reacting to the hon member for Western Free State who devoted a very large proportion of his speech to the CP policy of partition. I think he also put a number of difficult questions to those hon members. I do not intend expressing an opinion on this. I wish them every success in replying to them. In addition he also put a number of affairs concerning his constituency in particular to the hon the Administrator and the hon members of the Executive Committee and I believe that they will reply to them. I hope the hon member will therefore pardon me for not reacting any further.

It is a pleasure for me to participate in this debate today in which we are discussing the activities of the Provincial Administration of the Orange Free State in the light of the 1989-90 budget. This is certainly accompanied by a small measure of sorrow because we are unable to do it in the capital city of our province, but we believe that this will not be the case again and we shall leave the matter at that.

I take pleasure in associating myself with hon members who expressed thanks and appreciation toward the hon the Administrator and the members of his Executive Committee. We are very well aware that they do not work with unlimited funds and that the work is also carried out with limited staff. That is why we are very grateful for the great and good service rendered to the residents of our province and on an occasion such as this it is truly a privilege to thank the hon the Administrator and the members of the Executive Committee straight from the heart.

I particularly want to thank and congratulate the hon the Administrator and his wife for the dignity with which they carry out their official duties. The friendliness and sincerity that they have brought to this position over the years have lent it an exceptional content which commands respect everywhere in our province. I can assure them of the loyalty and support of the residents of our province.

I am proud to come from the Free State and I should also like to be involved in the work and development of our province in order that ultimately it may reach its full potential so that our residents may lead a happy and prosperous life. Ours is not a large province. Our province is not geographically or numerically large. The hon the Administrator referred to this in his introductory speech as well. We have only 14 elected representatives in the House of Assembly. Pretoria alone has nearly as many. Our province is therefore not large as regards our physical conditions, but in proportion I do not think we need take a back seat to any other province in our country.

This reminds me of the words of one of our Afrikaans writers, P J Schoeman, who wrote about this in one of his well-known stories for youths. He asked the question: When is a people great? He then answered this by saying that a people is not great when it has produced a few great men. He said a people was great when its young men and women were inspired to make an independent personal contribution. Applied to the Free State, I want to say that to my mind the greatness, power and potential of the Free State lies in the will of its people and in their dedication, young and old, each to contribute to the development of our province.

In the time at my disposal I should like to draw the Committee’s attention to the public resorts in the Free State and particularly to the role of those resorts in the promotion of recreation and tourism in our province. This is one of the spheres where I think the Administration of the Free State furnishes our community with an exceptional service and which holds great potential for the future in the provision of specific recreational facilities.

The Administration develops and administers the following public resorts at present: The Jim Fouché resort, Allemanskraal, Maselspoort and the Verwoerd Dam for Whites; the Philip Sanders resort at Mockes Dam to which various hon members referred today, that at the Verwoerd Dam and also at Allemanskraal for Brown people. We have also been informed that the resort for Black people at the Allemanskraal Dam will possibly have been completed by the end of the year although it will not be commissioned at that time. A resort for Black people is also being planned at the Rustfontein Dam.

The budget for public resorts for the 1989-90 financial year is R7,083 million. Hon members may be proud of these resorts and they should support the Executive Committee in its endeavour to provide adequate and comparable facilities in this regard for all the residents of our province. The hon MEC Mr Simes this morning referred to the popularity of these resorts, especially at weekends and during holidays. One is grateful to hear that the number of visitors to these resorts continues to grow.

One would obviously like to see that we have more and better resorts but then one should also bear in mind that resorts cost money and our Administration has limited funds. What is important is that the existing resorts are highly subsidised institutions. In other words, if there were no subsidies from the fund of the Administration or wherever, these resorts could not continue to exist. That is why we say thank you very much for the expenditure of these funds on the maintenance of public resorts.

There is a particular need among the inhabitants of Botshabelo where there is a great concentration of people. The planned resort at Rustfontein Dam will in my opinion be able to supply a particular need in this regard. I should like to wish the Administration every success in the planning and the later development of this resort.

I want to emphasise that the development of holiday resorts and recreational facilities in the Free State is also important for the promotion of tourism in this region. The Free State should ensure that it receives its share of the Republic’s growing tourism industry. I think the Free State should concentrate on its unique capabilities in this development. It has unique capabilities which are not available as readily elsewhere in the Republic. By developing and advertising our unique potential—I should like to emphasise this—we shall really exploit tourism to the benefit of our province as a whole.

I should like to point out one unique characteristic of the Free State in this connection, that is the Hendrik Verwoerd Dam. This dam to my mind is unique to South Africa. It is not only the largest dam and not only provides life-giving water to a large part of our country, but is also the most beautiful dam in our country. In addition to the water supply, one is also aware of the fact that this gigantic dam has enormous potential for both domestic and foreign tourism. I think, with respect, that we are not yet utilising this potential to the full.

We are obviously proud of the resort which the Administration has already set up at the dam for both the White and the Brown communities. I was recently privileged to be at these resorts on more than one occasion. One can do no other than describe them as beautiful and convenient resorts. There are luxury accommodation and recreational facilities and good service is provided—not to mention the natural beauty. After the plentiful rain which we have had over the past season and beyond, the Verwoerd Dam is truly a paradise.

I should like to appeal today for the further development of all the possibilities in and about the Hendrik Verwoerd Dam with a view to recreation and tourism. I should like to mention a few examples in this regard, in other words, development possibilities in and about the dam. I first want to refer to the development of the Hendrik Verwoerd Dam as a watersport mecca. Experienced yachtsmen have informed me that the waters of the Hendrik Verwoerd Dam are the best waters for sailing in and around South Africa. There are no rough maritime conditions. It is safe and has a safe harbour. There are long beaches for sailing through beautiful scenery. There are idyllic islands. Consequently there is great potential for practising this unique sport. It is also the only dam in the Free State where seaworthy boats can sail. This is also the reason for the increasing interest in yachting at the dam. The Hendrik Verwoerd Dam Yacht Club has a large number of members who have 35 yachts on the dam altogether. This represents an investment in excess of R2 million. The club plans further extensions and has already made representations in this regard to the Provincial Administration. I think these representations hold exceptional merit and I take pleasure in appealing today that the Executive Committee give sympathetic consideration to the following at a suitable time: A harbour for sailboards and rowing boats is a strong possibility for the further exploitation of the dam as a watersport mecca. Because of our repeated droughts the Free State is associated with anything but water sports. But by utilising the great watersport potential of the Hendrik Verwoerd Dam we can give the he to this impression once and for all.

The development of residential plots with boating facilities together with the development of certain islands in the dam should also be investigated in my opinion. I think there is a splendid possibility for the development of islands in the dam which could be very popular from a tourism point of view.

Last but not least there is the possibility of the development of residential plots for retirement and holiday residences. The price of seaside plots has become exorbitant. Because of distance and the cost of fuel, people from the interior can visit a beach plot once a year at the most. Holiday homes at resorts in the interior, for example at our beautiful dams, have become a workable alternative to my mind. In this regard I think the Hendrik Verwoerd Dam offers an excellent opportunity for this as has already been proved by the Hendrik Verwoerd Village at the dam. It can be accepted that plots with a view over the dam will be very, very popular.

One could continue in this vein and mention various other examples which could possibly be developed in and around the Hendrik Verwoerd Dam. I know it may be said that it is very easy to have ideals in this direction but that it is much more difficult to convert these ideals into practical action. I realise this. I also realise that capital is required and, as I said earlier, the Administration’s funds are limited. That is why I appeal for serious consideration to be given to putting this development out to private initiative and exploiting private initiative in this regard. I consider the yacht club as a good example of what private initiative has already accomplished at this dam.

I should like to conclude. The Hendrik Verwoerd Dam is an exceptional asset to South Africa and the Free State. I am looking forward to the day when it will be developed and utilised fully in its entirety, particularly because of its unique characteristics, with a view to recreation and tourism.

Mr Chairman, thank you for the opportunity I have been granted to take part in this debate on the Free State. I do not come from the Free State, but my ancestors and members of my family have indeed left their mark in the Free State. The Free Staters need only recall that there is a family with the surname Van Rhyn. They had the bakery in the Coloured area there, many years ago. Actually they are near relatives of mine. For that reason I do not feel like a man on an island today, but like a Free Stater.

Hon members must please pardon me if I speak rather haphazardly. Yesterday in the closed committee we heard and said a great deal about district surgeons and we made recommendations etc. It would appear that the services that are being rendered by the district surgeons are entirely satisfactory.

When I look at the Question Paper, I see that apparently social pensioners are automatically entitled to treatment by a district surgeon. Have these elderly people not made their contribution to the economy of the country and to society many times over? It is not good for us to treat our elderly people in this way, especially when they do not have White skins. We cannot hold them responsible for the increase in the price of medicine. We also cannot hold our elderly people responsible for the situation in which we find ourselves in this country. Sometimes it is necessary for us to search our own hearts.

It also pleased me to learn that the considerable population increase on the Free State goldfields, which arises from the expansion of mining activities, has been addressed, and that the construction of a hospital with 620 beds in Welkom commenced in January of this year. That is good progress, and I would really like to congratulate and thank this province.

Yesterday I was also surprised to learn that there is a shortage of ambulances. This is a matter of serious concern. I am pleased to learn that this handicap will be overcome as soon as possible. Since our Defence Force has now withdrawn from Namibia, I feel the time has come for the province to negotiate with the SADF to see whether there is not a possibility of making those ambulances which they have used in the operational area available for services in the Republic. I should like serious consideration to be given to this matter. [Interjections.]

I place a very high premium on health services. According to reports, services at the Botamela Hospital leave much to be desired. It is also said, and I repeat that it is an allegation, that there are no doctors available over weekends. I would like the director of health services to go into that matter in order to determine whether that is the case or not.

Here in the Cape Province there are quite a number of matriculants who want to join the nursing services. If there are problems with nurses in the Free State, I can assure hon members that our people can help them with hundreds of people if they would only give us the chance to bring our people to the Free State for training. After everything I have heard here today about the well-being of the Free State, I am convinced that they will just be able to make the best of a very bad situation.

I hope that day hospitals in the Free State will receive urgent attention, because according to my information, there are no day hospitals in the Free State. Perhaps there is something else which is used for other purposes, but day hospitals, as our people know them, play a very important part in society. The Government cannot possibly shrug off its responsibility for health services. I am pleased to learn that the Free State is adopting the same point of view. I am pleased that the budget, although not amply, nevertheless makes provision for funds for health services, even though we would have liked it to be much more.

The budget plays a very important part in the maintenance of the system as we know it today. An hon member has said that it is not an election budget. Maybe it is. One never knows. When I look at the budget, I wonder when we will have a budget without any aspects of colour in it.

We are so obsessed with colour that when we look at something, we first look at its colour, regardless of whether it is food or clothing or the skin. We always have to look at the colour. Therefore I feel that we in this country of ours, which is such a good country, where we can all say sincerely: “At thy will to live or perish, O South Africa, dear land”, should rather think of Langenhoven’s words. He has said that there is a nation to be led, a fight to be fought, and work to be done. Let us rather look at the work, let us rather see what we can give our people and how we can help our people also to get somewhere in life, and to have all the things that we have today.

This morning I also took cognisance of the hon member for Lichtenburg’s policy of partition. I would just like to tell the hon member that he, in all the years that he has served in Cabinet, has had enough experience with Blacks to know that what he advocates here will lead to tremendous problems for this country and its people. We cannot afford this kind of thing any longer. I would like to appeal to everybody for their co-operation and neighbourliness. Let us start with that in mind. Let us rather try to sit around a conference table and sort out our problems together, than to talk each out of his own little comer. This kind of thing does not work any more and it is no longer going to work. That is the reason why this country is saddled with the problems it has today. We are saddled with the problem that we have no stature abroad. We are saddled with the problem that our gold no longer has a price. When any of our non-White people goes abroad, the same accusing finger which points to White people, is pointed to us. I make my plea on behalf of the cause of South Africa, the South Africa which we all love, the flag which we all honour—it is not only the Whites who honour the South African flag. We have the same respect for the South African flag as any other hon members. For this reason I would like to tell hon members that they should sit still and think. They should not generalise. Consider a matter on its merits.

We have often been hurt. We know what it is like to look at a sign which says that one may not enter. We know what it is like to enter a place, and once one is inside, to be told you belong on the other side. We know what it is like, and therefore we speak only from experience. Not one of the hon members sitting here has been evicted from a place where he does not belong. However, we know what it is like. When we speak, we speak from experience. Therefore we can appeal to the province for good co-operation and neighbourliness so that we can try and forget these things. We are only hurting other people. What about the commandment in the Bible which tells us that it is His will that people should love one another? Where does that love fit in? How well do we listen to the minister, or to the padre or the pastor on a Sunday when he brings his message? I would like to invite the hon members of the CP—and there are several of them—to join us in prayer, then they will see what it is like to be human. They think they alone are human. We should like to tell them that there are other people who may perhaps not look like them—like the saying goes, there are other sheep who do not belong in the fold—and perhaps we are not of the fold, but we are also flowers in the garden of our Lord Jesus Christ. I should like that to be remembered—I am sorry that my time has expired, but I hope to continue my debate later when I get another opportunity—and I should like to appeal to the hon members of Parliament to treat people like human beings at all times.

Mr Chairman, it is an exceptional privilege for me to be able to speak here today on behalf of the CP, and to do so in the Committee that has to discuss the budget of the Free State. The CP has been easily dismissed here in various speeches and one can probably juggle with figures to either side, but I just want to remind hon members that during the general election on 6 May 1987 the CP received 43% of the votes polled in the Free State, compared with the 53% of the NP. With a view to the imminent elections hon members can now make a few calculations about a swing to this side or that to see where we are going to end up. In regard to the municipal elections we can once again abstract figures to favour either side. I could even refer a little more specifically to the recent by-election in Sasolburg. I want to quote the hon member for Sasolburg from Hansard 1989: House of Assembly, vol 1, col 386, where he told Parliament with a great flourish: “After 8 March, we shall note with great interest what the voters of Sasolburg think of the spineless radical rightwing party then.”

I am not on the level where one refers to “papbroek” parties and I do not debate on that level either—but I think it would be interesting to look at the result of the election. I am quoting from Die Volksblad of 8 March 1989:

The facts are, if I may also quote Dr Craven, that the scoreboard says the CP won again. If one pages through Die Volksblad of the next day it is interesting to see that one finds no headline dealing with the event, and even if one pages through the whole newspaper, not a word is printed about what happened there.

I now want to predict that the election is apparently imminent. Let us leave the debate and the discussions on who is going to win what and where at that now, and ultimately see what the facts tell us.

Reference was made to the hon member for Lichtenburg, who spoke this morning, and I should like to react to this. He referred to Europe and Cyprus, and I want to point out to hon members, and also to the hon member who spoke before me, that the hon member for Lichtenburg said that the CP was seeking peace and solutions to South Africa’s problems just as earnestly. [Interjections.] They were seeking just as earnestly to recognise all people as human beings, otherwise I would be wasting my time here, and I would be engaged in a futile exercise.

The discussion we should ultimately be having is: What is the best method of achieving this goal? Perhaps we are not debating enough about what we must ultimately do and about how we must reach that goal, and we are talking too much about the wonderful ideals with which we probably all agree. In that connection the hon member referred to Europe and Cyprus as places from which we could learn lessons about things which did in fact go wrong. In their search for solutions things went wrong, and it is only logical that one should take a lesson from those events in order not to repeat the same mistakes here in South Africa.

The hon member for Heilbron then reacted in a very facile way to what had been said about Cyprus, claiming that if Turkey had not supported the Turks in Cyprus, the Greeks would have wiped them off the island. I think that underlines our dilemma. Our dilemma is in fact two groups that had to coexist on one island and were ultimately unable to succeed.

They had a wonderful power-sharing constitution, of which hon members would do well to make a study. In that constitution provision was even made for a type of separate local government, but the facts were that it was 80% of the one and 20% of the other. When matters were ultimately brought to a head there was a conflict and the wonderful power-sharing constitution was unable, in the face of conflict and war, to achieve what the hon members to my left would so much like to achieve.

Now we have a kind of partition there, and at this stage one no longer hears anything about Cyprus. Hon members can go and have a look if they like, because nothing is being written in the newspapers anymore. They can also consider the case of India—I shall not elaborate on this for long—and the example of the conflict in 1947 with a power-sharing constitution; or the case of Ireland, where there have already been three different power-sharing constitutions. Hon members would do well to read up about each different and interesting attempt. Yet they all failed, and the people involved there, if one wants to look at it from this angle, are White Christians. The differences can be taken into account. Israel’s present dilemma in regard to the Arabs and the accompanying conflict is just as interesting.

What was the hon member for Lichtenburg saying? He was saying that nowhere in the world do we find fair power-sharing. If hon members want power-sharing they can continue on an unfair basis where large groups bully small groups with a President’s Council or whatever. Apparently it is easy and convenient, but one cannot circumvent the fact that the Black people, the figures for whom we had here, are actually in the majority in the long term.

When I reach that point I begin to think seriously about the future and I begin to seek earnestly for answers to comply precisely with what hon members on this side want, namely love of one’s neighbour and peaceful coexistence without friction.

The hon member for Bloemfontein North referred to Europe and in a very facile way advanced new ideas of one great Europe that has to amalgamate. History tells us that Europe was violently divided up into partitioned states or national states (yolkstate). This fact is true, and now they recognise economic and military interdependence and are co-operating in the European Common Market and in NATO, but not one of them has so far relinquished its political sovereignty or power base. I am convinced that they will not do so either, but we shall simply have to wait and see what happens in future.

Recently Mrs Thatcher had this to say about the matter: “I am British and proud to be British; let Germany be Germany; let Belgium be Belgium and let Britain be Britain.”

If that is not nationalism and each nation eventually for itself, in the CP way, then I do not know what it is—co-operation and recognition of interdependence, but that does not happen at the expense of separate political power and a separate political power base. That is Europe’s recipe.

I now want to quote to hon members from our Programme of Principles and Policy—Principle No 7:

That is the crux of the problem. If one tampers with the political power base one has a Cyprus and an Ireland and conflict, and then one achieves nothing of what one wants to achieve here. As far as I am concerned fair powersharing has not been implemented anywhere in the world. Hon members can go through the whole of Africa. There is no power-sharing in Africa. Africa does not know of such a concept. The major question we have to answer here is who is right—the NP or the CP. The future will tell us. At the present moment I can look up in the history books what happened in the past. I want to tell hon members that power-sharing ultimately leads to more unrest, struggles and conflicts than does partition.

As a responsible member of the opposition I should also like to make a meaningful contribution to the debate on the Free State. One would like to keep the criticism fair and ensure that one’s contribution ultimately contributes to better government in the Free State. Last year we had budget figures and an annual report. In March we even had the report of the Auditor-General. It is difficult for us, since this year we only have the budget figures and an explanatory memorandum, to be able to react meaningfully to them.

I should like to make an objection. It is extremely difficult for us to discuss and agree to millions of rands here without the comprehensive background on precisely how the money was spent last year and in the past. The report of the Auditor-General is not here either. I must say that the Auditor-General and the Advocate-General are at present so busy investigating corruption in other departments, and even in the Transvaal Provincial Administration, that they probably have not yet had time to get round to the Free State. Consequently we shall try to make a contribution with the budget figures only.

I want to begin with the officials. On behalf of the CP I want to thank them for their hard work. I think they find themselves at present in the same position into which all of us as politicians have been forced. In one week three NP members of Parliament left this House under a cloud, with various allegations having been made against them. I am referring here to Messrs De Beer of Hillbrow, De Pontes of East London and Du Plessis of Lydenburg. The effect of this—if I look at a recent opinion poll in a Sunday newspaper—is that the general public simply accepts that all politicians are corrupt and are ultimately serving here for the sole purpose of enriching themselves. Immediately they are all tarred with the same brush. The idealism of hon members who come here because they feel themselves called upon to make a contribution for their people, their nation and their country, is destroyed by this kind of conduct. I maintain that the officials of the Free State Provincial Administration unfortunately find themselves—as far as I am concerned—in the same position. Corruption by officials in various departments, a disregard for financial rules, and even self-enrichment, now reflect on all officials, also on those who out of idealism see their work as a calling and a contribution to a better future. [Interjections.] I am in the process of thanking the officials. I think the hon member over there should adjust his hearing aid.

Let me mention a few examples to hon members of how I want to thank the officials. I wanted to single out this point in regard to corruption, because it is not fair that the reflection that is presently being cast on all politicians should also be cast on all officials. That is the crux of the matter. There are any number of officials in regard to whom this kind of condemnation is not fair.

The effective way in which the floods in the Free State in February 1988 were dealt with by the officials of the province is one demonstration of the contribution made by those officials. In particular the emergency and civil defence services, such as ambulance and hospital services, should be mentioned here. The civil defence services especially proved themselves to be well prepared and efficient and are deserving of special mention.

With reference to the recent earthquake in Welkom, as a second example, special thanks must be conveyed to the town council and the civil defence service for—as far as I was able to observe—their exceptional service.

In the third place I think that the visit of the Pope was another example of how the departments of the province had to co-operate, and of how the officials had to consolidate and co-ordinate the available resources in the province.

There are a few things I want to say about the Pope. I was under the impression—as I followed and read about what the Government said—that the Government wanted to keep a low profile concerning the visit of the Pope. The impression I got was that if the Pope had come to this country for Christian reasons only, he would have visited all Roman Catholics in Southern Africa, regardless of where they lived.

However, he visited only certain states and tried to avoid South Africa. I maintain that this was for political reasons. He wanted to ignore us as the polecat of the world. For that reason it was my impression that the Government wanted to shift the visit into the background. By the Government, of course I mean everyone except the hon the Minister of Foreign Affairs, who in the end resolved the matter in his own way.

Against this background the Free State spent R364 840 on helping local authorities to recover additional expenses which they incurred in connection with the visit of the Pope. That is only the amount we know about. My question is this: What was the additional cost of all kinds of other expenses? We think here, for example, of matters such as traffic arrangements. I understand that prefabricated houses were transported to Ladybrand for this purpose. If I am correct an amount of R100 000 was spent by hospital services alone on approximately 26 emergency trolleys used in this connection. I want to know whether it is true that an ultra-modern emergency hospital was set up in Ladybrand at the request of Lesotho. Is Lesotho paying for that? Is there any assistance for that? Are they not paying for it at all? I should like to receive the answers to these questions.

If the money was spent to mobilise the civil defence services in the Free State for the specific purpose of protecting the inhabitants of the Free State against whatever could happen in such a situation, I could understand it. However these remain huge amounts spent on such a visit.

In the Northern Transvaal one has the annual rally of the Zionists, at which literally millions of people congregate in Pietersburg. This happened again recently. Hon members should take a look at how things are done there. The town councils concerned are all CP, and the province is virtually CP-controlled, and they deal with the situation easily, with the minimum of accidents and with nowhere near the same financial expenses as the provincial authorities of the Free State incurred here. [Interjections.]

These financial expenses are made up of taxpayers’ money that was spent, even though the Government did not want to make a fuss about the Pope’s visit. The point is that all indications were there from the beginning that it was a failure and ultimately it was a small gathering which could not be compared with the gathering in Pietersburg. [Interjections.]

I want to ask why so much money was spent in this way—I should like to have the total figures—on a visit which in my opinion was not really worth the money that was ultimately spent on it. One must remember that this is taxpayers’ money that was spent here on a visit which was in point of fact paid to another country. Nevertheless I want to congratulate the officials on the way in which they carried out the instructions of their policy-makers under these circumstances.

As a final congratulation I want to congratulate the policy-makers in the Free State, whom I have criticised up to now, on the establishment of a public relations service. A public relations officer has been functioning since 1 August 1986. As far as I was able to ascertain there are at present two women deeding with the public relations work.

The CP is in favour of State authorities communicating with the public in a professional way on all levels. As a result of the complexity of modern society with all its interrelated publics, as well as the specialisation of modern media, no single person can today deal with the communications of an organisation or State institution. To my mind what is required is the establishment of public relations sections on all levels and the acquisition of professional people to perform this task.

We already have public relations sections on a national level, since the Department of Information and the public relations sections of the Ministers’ departments perform this task. We also find this on a provincial level, for example this section, and also on a local level. To my mind this must continue to take place to a greater extent. It is a cause of concern to me that at this stage, on the local level, there is still so little State public relations work and so few public relations officers. It is in fact on this level where most contact is made between the citizen or State subject and the authorities.

As far as I was able to establish there are such public relations officers in the Free State in Bloemfontein, Sasolburg, Kroonstad, Bethlehem, Bultfontein, Hennenman and Welkom. I hope that this service will be greatly expanded.

Mrs Indira Gandhi said, and I am quoting her: “Public relations are the lubricants of democracy.” The CP endorses this sentiment. We also endorse the important role of professional communication by the State.

However, the condition of our support must also be clearly apparent today. The public relations officer must always be able to distinguish between State information and party propaganda. Policy-makers cannot use taxpayers’ money to establish public relations sections which ultimately disseminate NP party information.

We shall continue to keep a careful eye on the situation and we believe that the necessary discretion will be displayed in this case as well. This is something we are afraid we cannot always say of the present Department of Information.

From the previous annual reports it was in fact apparent that confusion still existed in the Free State about the precise functions of these public relations officers. It also became apparent, to my mind, that ultimately there was duplication of functions.

Besides the public relations section the administration, as far as I was able to ascertain from the previous reports—unfortunately I do not now have the new reports with me to look at—also had a subdirectorate for the promotion of relationships and liaison as part of community services. This division issued press statements, made publicity arrangements, arranged functions and dealt with media inquiries. As part of the general administration and auxiliary services there was also a language and liaison service which also dealt with liaison functions such as publicity and newspaper cuttings. This distribution and duplication of functions must have caused problems within the administration. I hope these problems have been resolved—unfortunately I do not know. I should like a reaction to this because we do not have the annual report and I am convinced that this must impede effective functioning.

As a last thought I want to come back to Black local government. We referred to that in the Free State, and the hon member for Lichtenburg pointed out to hon members the problems we foresaw in that connection. I listened attentively to the replies given by the MEC, but I am afraid that still does not solve the problem for me, particularly not in the long term. The crux of the problem, as I have experienced it and as I see it, is that the Government, in its application of and its ultimate theorising about solutions for South Africa, has forgotten the hard realities. Their point of departure is that of one undivided South Africa. They then inevitably apply the same norms which apply to all administrations, including White administrations, regardless of their financial situation. The problem the officials eventually have to cope with is that they have to carry out policy decisions which are frequently taken by policy-makers on a high level, such as the department of the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning here in the Cape, that sometimes has little experience of the practical problems encountered by the official in the Black residential area in Welkom, Bethlehem or wherever. As a result Black community councils have to my mind been converted into local authorities without applying the norms of viability.

Suddenly the Remuneration of Town Clerks Act, No 115 of 1984 is also applicable to Black local authorities. If I am correct a town clerk or executive officer of a grade 1 town receives R29 000 in terms of this legislation. The total income of many of these towns is nowhere near that amount, but we are forcing theories of this kind down their throats. There are no municipal valuations in respect of properties and therefore no valuation registers in Black residential areas. How does the Government ultimately want to build up a sound tax basis?

On the expenditure side the Government is insisting that certain matters be forced upon these Black local authorities without first looking at the revenue side to see whether there is a proper tax base for this. As far as I could establish rates are being levied in the various towns. However these are a minimal fixed amount of R2, R4, R5, which is ultimately levied on each plot. The effect is that those who can afford it ultimately have to carry the lower income groups, and this causes an inequitable distribution.

These authorities are declared to be local authorities, but the minimum number of these authorities have town clerks or executive officers—we mentioned the figures here earlier. What effect does this have? The effect is that we are applying the norms of Johannesburg and Bloemfontein in respect of local authorities for these towns. That immediately causes their expenditure to soar, while there is no way it is going to equal the revenue side. I am not even mentioning the additional problems of influx control and squatting, which are separate matters.

I shall furnish hon members with a few revenue and expenditure figures in respect of Black local authorities. [Interjections.] We are discussing the hard facts, because we have to agree to a budget of millions of rands and we must answer to the taxpayer regarding what happens to his money. That is what this debate is all about.

In 1986 the revenue of the administrations of Black local towns was R26 million. Their expenditure in that year was R28 million. The deficit was therefore R1,9 million. In 1987 the revenue was R85 million, the expenditure was R64 million and the deficit was therefore R6 million. In 1988 the revenue was R73 million, the expenditure remained at R89 million and the deficit was therefore R15 million. These deficits are now being financed by means of bridging loans granted interest-free over five years, which then have to be paid back.

At this stage the amount involved already totals R164 million since 1986. I want to ask whether it is possible and whether the provincial authorities ever expect to get those amounts back. Or do the provincial authorities already know that the loan burden is growing heavier by the year and that they will probably never succeed in doing so? What are we going to do then? Are we going to write off these amounts, as Soweto is now thinking of doing, or are we going to go ahead with another five years? Have we not created a bottomless pit for ourselves here? If an attempt is being made to write this off, hon members must tell me how one is going to explain this to the farmers in the Free State and the Western Transvaal who are already burdened by the interest on their debts—in any event there is no question here of interest—which are ultimately not going to be written off. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, thank you very much for this opportunity. At the outset, before my time runs out and I fail to do so, I wish to express my thanks to our hon Administrator and his Executive Committee, as well as to all the officials with whom we worked so well together in the Free State. I would like to say that now that we no longer have MPCs who can do this basic work in connection with matters pertaining to the provincial administration at grass-roots level, we as representatives find it a great pleasure to have such an Administrator and Executive Committee, who take such a sympathetic view of the problems we discuss with them.

I want to say that wherever we go, we receive the highest praise from other provinces for our hon Administrator and his Executive Committee. The senior MEC, the hon Mr Simes, is a voter of mine these days, and he is probably listening very attentively to what I am saying here. That is not why I am praising them, but I would like to thank the hon the Administrator and Mr Dreyer very much for the open doors. I also wish to thank Mr Mokotjo and Mr Henney in particular. There are various matters concerning our communities—not only White communities—that we have discussed with those hon members over the past year. If I look at this budget, I can already see the results of those discussions. I wish to thank them very much for their attitude.

I also cannot fail to refer briefly to what the previous speaker, the hon member for Schweizer-Reneke, said here. We know him; he is a respected member of the House of Assembly. He also arranged a lift for me from the airport the other day, and therefore I do not really want to cross swords with him now; next time I might have to sleep at the airport! However, I want to say I could make a whole speech this afternoon about the political aspects he raised here. That is not why we are here, but I would like to do so. I just want to touch on a few aspects. The hon member referred to the 43% support in the Free State. He or other CP speakers must tell me this afternoon or tomorrow: Are they counting individuals or are they counting seats? It is of the utmost importance for the future implementation of our policy to know whether they are counting individuals or seats. They must tell us, because the result is determined by how many representatives from the Free State the CP has in the House of Assembly. As regards the following aspect, namely the municipal by-election in Sasolburg, our figures indicate—we can prove it—that there has been a 5,5% swing away from the CP and back to the NP. Although we did not win this time, the writing is on the wall as far as the CP in the Free State is concerned, and those hon members must get that quite clear. They will always remain guests in this debate. We shall treat them in a friendly manner, but they will know that they will never really be able to take their place in this House as full and equal Free State representatives. [Interjections.]

Many things have been said here. The hon member for Lichtenburg, as well as the hon member for Schweizer-Reneke, had a lot to say this morning about the failure in the administration of Black townships. The hon member for Schweizer-Reneke also quoted figures. However, he is my neighbour, just across the Vaal River, and I want to extend an invitation to him this afternoon. When next I go to Hoopstad I shall ask him to accompany me on a visit to the Black township at Hoopstad or Bultfontein, which is situated nearby, so that he can see an example of efficient administration by a Black local authority. I invite him to join me. I visit all my Black local authorities once a year. I have discussions with the mayors and with those councils, and all I can say is that those discussions are always constructive for both parties. I can assure hon members that the examples mentioned here and the general statements made, namely that these people cannot govern their areas efficiently, are simply not true. I can prove it over and over in my own constituency. I would like to leave the matter at that. I can see that the hon member for Lichtenburg would love to talk politics—he is hunched forward in his bench—but unfortunately there are a few matters which I wish to bring to the attention of the hon the Administrator and the MECs.

I have three specific subjects. These subjects may not be all that important on a provincial level, but they are most important in my constituency. In view of the fact that we have no real opposition in the Free State, I do not think we must be afraid of talking about the things that bother our people, nor do I think we must discuss matters at such a high level that we ignore the problems of our people.

In the first place I have a game reserve and various nature reserves in my constituency. Without going into detail, my request is that we in the province, under which those nature reserves fall, must not stop pleading on behalf of those people for better salary scales and fringe benefits. I can give the assurance that representations have already been made to the Commission for Administration for the improvement of these people’s salary scales, because it is a fact that these people are really struggling financially. We are constantly losing competent people to the private sector and to other professions. These nature conservationists are people who render outstanding services to our province and to nature conservation in general. They are the people who maintain tourism in our province. They preserve and promote wildlife in our game reserves and nature reserves. They preserve a very valuable heritage for posterity. I therefore ask for these people to be helped as a professional group in that an attempt will be made to increase their salary scales and, if possible, also to improve their fringe benefits in the process.

The second aspect I want to raise concerns a question which I also put to our hon Administrator, namely about the alternative use of unutilised sections of hospitals in rural areas. I wanted to know whether it was possible for underutilised hospital facilities to be put to alternative use, for example for the care of the debilitated aged of the specific population group. I can only say if one looks today at the care of the aged and the building of old-age homes in the future, it is obvious that expenditure is being curtailed. We have to scrimp and save everywhere. These days we find it is the policy that the senior citizens are to remain in their communities for longer and that they are not to be taken out of those communities and put into old-age homes if they are still reasonably young at heart. We find these days that we in South Africa have proportionately more senior citizens in our old-age homes than in comparable countries. On the other hand we also know that it is the policy that not more than 6% of a town’s community should be accommodated in old-age homes. When I look at all the facts, bearing in mind our shortage of money, I come to the conclusion that we will not be able to build an unlimited number of old-age homes in future. To me it is logical that we should look for alternative measures to cope with this problem.

I would like to apply these measures to one of my towns, namely Winburg. Here we have no old-age home, but a housing scheme with a service centre which renders certain services to our senior citizens. Sixty per cent of the inhabitants of Winburg are over 60 years of age. These people will all need care in later life. The existing housing scheme is not very popular, the reason being that old people who have lived in Winburg all their lives and now have to go to that housing scheme cannot stay there indefinitely, because as soon as they become debilitated they have to be moved, taken from their environment and moved elsewhere.

It is common knowledge that we have a low hospital intake at Winburg, especially in our White section. We also have an underutilised nurses’ home, which could easily be used for another purpose. My request is therefore that we must investigate the possibility of using these underutilised facilities for another purpose. I am very pleased about the answer I received from our hon MEC, namely that they are giving this matter their urgent attention. I realise that it is very important and that many other departments and policy changes are involved, but it is something to which we must constantly give attention.

The other aspect I want to deal with is a local matter, namely the policy in respect of tertiary roads in the Free State. I know that the provincial administration has a very clear policy on this matter and I cannot find fault with that policy. However, I think we must try to identify a certain category of tertiary roads which should be dealt with in a different or special way, as problems occurred locally in those areas from time to time.

As it is late in the afternoon and everyone is struggling to stay awake, I have brought a sketch to demonstrate what the problem is. I shall not explain it in detail here now as if this were a classroom. I simply wish to say I have the details right here in order to explain the problem to hon members. The problem concerns tertiary road T1091 in the Winburg district.

A few things have happened in the Free State rural area which we cannot account for in terms of our policy. A certain Mr W J Strydom of the farm Junctionspruit—around whom the problem revolves—lives 31 km from Winburg. After the depopulation of the rural area by Whites he is the only White owner of a piece of land who is still living there permanently. For 31 km, from his farm to Winburg, there are no other Whites left. All that land is owned by part-time farmers and so on. He happens to live on the Waterval Road—S474—which has already been cut off four times since January this year as a result of the flooding of causeways on both sides. As soon as the Waterval Road is cut off by the flooding of these causeways, there is pressure on the commuter traffic, production transport and all other traffic of the part-time farmers making use of this tertiary road—T1091. As a result of the depopulation which has taken place, he is now the only person who is responsible for the maintenance of that road. The other users refuse to pay any more since they are part-time farmers. This creates an enormous problem in that area.

I know that the administration keeps a traffic count. This also applies to the road next to it. The problem does not occur in normal times, but only when there are rains. As soon as the road is cut off one finds an abnormal traffic load on this tertiary road. Within a few days its surface is damaged and it is then the sole responsibility of this individual to make a financial contribution towards having that road repaired. For that reason I ask whether, within the category of tertiary roads, we can classify a group and call them special tertiary roads.

We have classified special secondary roads in the past. The province can take more responsibility than it does at present in respect of these tertiary roads. If, as I have already explained, there is extra traffic on that road under certain circumstances which destroys it completely within a few days, the province will be responsible for repairing it.

I have paid a lot of attention to voters this afternoon, but I cannot fail to welcome one of my voters who has been sitting in the audience all day, namely the chief secretary of the CP, Mr Claassens, who lives in Bloemfontein in my constituency. I hope he has found the debate illuminating and goes home with new insights.

Mr Chairman, I am somewhat disappointed that I have to speak after the hon member for Winburg. I shall tell hon members why. Until now the debate was so peaceful that I hoped that someone who could arouse my fighting instinct would talk before me. The hon Whip told me that I would follow the hon member for Winburg and I listened attentively to his speech. I must say that I cannot criticise it in any way and that it is a pleasure to speak after the hon member for Winburg, and I associate myself completely with what he said here.

It is apparent that the hon member for Winburg is a person who knows his constituency, who loves his province and who impresses his voters. I was watching the faces of the two voters he referred to, and their expressions showed that they regard him as an MP of quality.

I would like to say a few words about museums in the Free State, but first I want to say something about politics.

Earlier today the hon member for Heidedal appealed to people in Bloemfontein, if I remember correctly, to ignore the Group Areas Act and to move into empty flats. I am now talking about people of colour. I do not want to discuss this in detail, but I want to tell him that to me it is irresponsible and uncalled for to appeal blatantly in this House to people to break a law in this country. We have diversity in this country.

Repeal the Act!

We have a diversity that we cannot ignore. We are dealing with the need of population groups and nations to maintain their identity, to keep their residential areas and schools to themselves, and we cannot ignore that.

You are going to have a lot of problems! Just remember that!

It is also a very important facet of NP policy.

Order! The hon member for Robertson must allow the hon member Mr Aucamp to make his speech. We are not having a dialogue. The hon member may continue.

Another interesting aspect of this debate until now was the absence of the PFP—if they are still called that. I think one should have it placed on record that it is a shame that they are totally absent here today, because what are they doing? They are trying to save three parties which are definitely falling apart. That is probably the explanation for their absence.

Die Volksblad has a column “Jan Brand” and sometimes this “Jan Brand” speaks the truth. On one occasion he spoke about certain groupings of the English community in South Africa which were traditionally without a leader and which were always looking for an Afrikaner without supporters to be their leader. I think that is what happening at present with the so-called troika which cannot get off the ground, because surely that could not be a winning combination considering the realities of South Africa.

I want to refer briefly to the CP. The hon member for Lichtenburg seems to be very disillusioned after last Saturday. He referred to the bloodbath at Lichtenburg when Free State gave Stellaland such a beating. It is the same as the situation between the NP and the CP. We want to tell the CP what the Free State told Stellaland. We are not in the same league, and that is why we have won every match so far, and will win every match in future. Hon members discussed European political and constitutional systems this morning and mentioned examples, but is it not true that we told one another long ago that we were living in South Africa, a unique country which demanded a unique solution? We cannot apply Europe’s solutions to this country. It has been said time and again that the CP policy has no solutions for South Africa and the electorate of the Free State is beginning to realise this.

It is no secret that sooner or later there will be an election. I want to tell the CP that the NP is looking forward to the next round. [Interjections.] The NP is enthusiastic. It is also determined to return all its members to Parliament. Many people were still confused during the previous election, obviously because of CP propaganda, and voted for the CP—people who actually belong with the NP. I want to tell those people very earnestly that they must return. They must return to the NP, as they are in fact doing. [Interjections.] They must return and in doing so broaden the power base of the NP to enable us to meet the future challenges of our country as a more united party.

Are you going to be a candidate in a constituency?

Mr Chairman, that hon member need not be afraid of that. I shall keep that as a surprise. [Interjections]

When one talks about museums people tend to think of places where only antiques are collected and displayed. That is a very elementary description, but often that is the perception of the general public—not only of the general public, but sometimes even of people one would expect to be better informed.

This perception is of course wrong. It is true that there are antiques in a museum. It is also true that a museum normally communicates from an historic perspective, of what exists at the moment and of what happened in the past. Nevertheless, this is not the whole picture. Moreover, that is only a very small part of the essence and function of a modern museum.

A museum can be compared to human thought. In contrast to an animal, which lives instinctively from one moment to the next, the human being is a cultural being motivated by reason and with a potential for development that is almost inexhaustible. His memory enables him to remember the total of his own and his predecessors’ accumulated knowledge and experience, and every person is a walking result of centuries of human development and acculturation.

With this field of reference he orientates himself daily in time and space and classifies new experiences and structures them into meaningful contexts. However, the fact that the human being is continually—consciously and unconsciously—concerned with the past in order to understand the present and prepare himself for the future, does not mean that he is a creature of the past. In the final instance a human being is a creature of the future. Similarly a museum keeps its eyes on the future, no matter how much it is concerned with the past in research, interpretation and representation.

A museum has various aims and functions but above all it is an educational institution, for the collecting and interpretation as well as communication of knowledge. One of the differences between a museum and other types of educational institutions is the broad spectrum of sources of knowledge and the ability to communicate dynamically and audiovisually with an unlimited public. Not only does this enable a museum to contribute efficiently to formal education, but also to informal education.

Therefore a museum which is run judiciously and utilised to its full extent has the potential to be a school or university to the nation. In the context of the broad South African community—a developing community—this potential can be invaluable and museums should enjoy a priority which is far from having been realised.

The high premium international educational organisations and several Third World countries put on the development and utilisation of museums of high standards should be an indication of the role that museums can and should play in developing communities. Museums should be of a high standard in order to fulfil such high expectations. In international terms the museum has developed to a highly specialised comprehensive and multi-disciplinary institution where a divergent number of applied disciplines are being practised.

Note should be taken of this development. This is a worldwide process that has taken place over a period of decades especially during this century, and also in this country, to the extent that experiences, insights and circumstances allowed. As the process developed, the museum broke the ties of historical guardianship and developed into an autonomous institution.

Where this autonomy has not yet been attained in the local context, it will have to be acknowledged as the ideal and priority. The provincial administration of the Free State can be proud of and grateful for what has been achieved over a relatively short period. At present the provincial museum service runs a national museum, four provincial museums and nine local community museums, and various other projects are in various stages of development. All this has been accomplished since the Nasionale Afrikaanse Letterkundige Museum en Navorsingssentrum was opened in 1973, followed by the first so-called subject museums in 1979. This is an achievement of which the Free State can be proud. At present the Provincial Museum Service functions as a division of the Subdirectorate: Library and Museum Services. This organisational dispensation recently came into being through the amalgamation of the previous Subdirectorate: Library Service and the Subdirectorate: Museum Service. The Free State Executive Committee has been giving attention at provincial level to the establishment of museums and the development of a museum infrastructure in this province since the early seventies. A committee of investigation was appointed and on 7 November 1972 the executive took a decision whereby the establishment of a separate museum service was approved in principle. A co-ordinating committee made further recommendations and, after investigation and a report by the former Public Service Commission, the Free State Museum Service started functioning at the end of 1978.

In the meantime, however, there was another development of the greatest importance for the Free State and the whole country and that was the establishment of the previously mentioned Nasionale Afrikaanse Letterkundige Museum en Navorsingsentrum, generally known as NALN, and its music and theatre sections, which were soon added. NALN was the result of two ideas that had gained momentum since the late 60s. On the one hand there was the idea in the Free State of a Free State authors’ library where manuscripts and data could be collected about all authors who had been born in or had lived in the province. On the other hand the well-known Prof P J Nienaber, who at the time was associated with the HSRC and was establishing language, literature and other documentation centres, unsuccessfully approached various other bodies with his ideal of a national literary museum. The provincial administration of the Free State heard about this and after negotiations it was decided to provide the infrastructure for a museum of this nature. The blending of these two ideas was the basis of the Letterkundige Museum as we know it today—an institution which is already indispensable to our country as an educational and cultural centre and which is generally appreciated.

By being responsible for this national institution which provides a service beyond the boundaries of the Free State, the Provincial Administration of the Free State established something unique and since then has provided, as the central province, a unique service to the whole country. The doors of the NALN were opened to the public in 1973 with Prof Nienaber as part-time director initially and later as full-time director. The museum developed rapidly and when the provincial museum service was established in 1978, NALN was incorporated. Under the enthusiastic leadership of Prof Nienaber various museums were established within a short period and the community of the Free State could make use of museum facilities which were not available earlier on. The following museums were established in chronological order: The Pellissier House Museum at Bethulie; the General Fick Museum at Ficksburg; the Sarel Cilliers Museum in Kroonstad; the Transgariep Museum at Philippolis; the Chris van Niekerk Museum at Boshof; the Caledon Rivier Museum at Smithfield; the Hertzog House Museum in Bloemfontein; the Ou Presidensie Museum in Bloemfontein; the Catharina Brand Museum in Ladybrand; the Free State Educational Museum in Bloemfontein and the Riemland Museum at Heilbron. The latest was the Welkom Museum in 1987.

My time is running out, but the hon MEC responsible for museum services referred this morning to the own affairs ideal which was taking root, in museum services in the Free State as well, whereby the Provincial Administration of the Free State would transfer certain museums to the Administration: House of Assembly. When the museum services component of the Administration: House of Assembly starts functioning, the provincial administration can be proud of the dowry which it will be transferring. These museums will include museums depicting the earliest organised White occupation in the Trans-Oranje and will pay tribute to the pioneers of this area, a museum which reflects the course, character, and momentum of the history of the Great Trek between the borders of the present Orange Free State, museums reflecting the development of the Orange Free State … [Time expired.]

Order! I am sorry, the hon member still had two minutes. I apologise.

Thank you, Mr Chairman. The hon Mr Aucamp, who has just spoken, may as well give me those two minutes.

Let me quickly set the hon member, who has just resumed his seat, straight. My party is not in favour of apartheid. If the hon member is pleading for apartheid, we shall never be able to cooperate with him in this House.

You say that people who do not have accommodation are not allowed to move into Bloemfontein’s flats. Here I am, standing before you. Are you going to say that I may not live next to you? I can afford it. Why then may I not live there?

Order! In this place we do not speak about “you” and “your”, but about “hon members”. The hon member may proceed.

Thank you, Sir. I handled the matter in just the right way. Apartheid will always bring confusion in this country. This country is going bankrupt as a result of it. The hon member Mr Aucamp must please not bring CP ideas into this House, and must not sit in the NP benches with CP ideas either. [Interjections.] I want to stop him now.

Apartheid has hurt our people. We in the Free State, together with the leader of the NP in that province, the hon the Minister of Justice, have allowed our Indian brothers into the Free State, but those people do not have a place to stay. We should appreciate it if those flats could be leased to these people. I, for example, have a large flat, but the other people are going bankrupt because the flats are empty.

Mr Chairman, may I ask the hon member a question?

Certainly, Sir.

Mr Chairman, the hon member has forced me to ask this question. After his present argument I want to know—after he referred to the discussions of the Labour Party with the hon leader of the NP in the Free State—what their attitude was at that stage towards accommodation for the Indians in the Free State?

Mr Chairman, it is still clear in my mind, because I furnished the reply. I pointed out to the hon leader what the policy of my party was, namely that everyone must live where he can afford to live. I want to tell the hon member Mr Aucamp that he cannot live there because of the colour of his skin. I want to read him a lesson from the Scriptures. He will appear before God—he and I next to one another in front of one door—and that same God who created me, will judge us both. Close that book. Leave those things alone. Let us allow our Indian brothers into the Free State.

In Bloemfontein there are firms which have gone bankrupt and the flats are empty, while there are people who can live there. Why must we waste time while the country is going bankrupt?

Opposite me someone has mentioned Angola. There people are destroying one another in their search for peace. The hon member Mr Aucamp can search for peace, but if the Prince of Peace is not in his heart, there is no peace. [Interjections.] I am speaking from experience today. I grew up under very difficult conditions.

Order! The hon members on this side of the House must please not egg the hon member on. He can deliver his speech by himself. The hon member may proceed.

I just want to ask the hon the Administrator not to allow us to be the cause of squatting in the Free State. They must get rid of those already there. It must be done away with. If I travel by air and I fly over the Cape, I see the squatters. [Interjections.] On whose land are those people squatting? Who allowed it? On whose land are those people going to squat in the Free State? We must not allow it. We must provide housing for those people in the Free State. We must set an example for the other people. We must be able to invite them to come and pay a visit to the Free State. We had phase 1 squatters at Rodenbeck and Staalsterk in Bloemfontein. We solved the problem in a satisfactory way. [Interjections.] We did not run to the newspapers. The problem is solved and there are no more squatters. We are going to build houses there for our community.

If we have houses for our Indian brothers in the Free State, we are going to lease the houses to them. [Interjections ] I plead with the Free Staters to throw open those flats so that those people can live there, and so that those firms do not go bankrupt. Money has been spent. It costs money to build blocks of flats. I do not accept the situation as it is. I shall never be able to accept it, because we are the product of apartheid.

Apartheid oppression has hurt people and we shall not allow it any longer. We just want to say that apartheid is the root of the evil and unrighteousness that is taking place here.

I now come to hospital services in the Free State. I want to ask the MEC entrusted with hospital services whether Pelonomi Hospital—we appreciate such a large and nice hospital—has enough beds. If there are enough beds, I shall be very pleased.

There are many complaints concerning this hospital. We are also human beings. If a doctor walks in—I went to listen to the oath they take—he looks at the people. It is so sad to see it. He looks at the people as if they were lepers. That is not nice. Do not make me aware of the fact that I am a Coloured. [Interjections.] I am a Coloured because of what my White brother did. Do not make me aware of it, I know what I am. I am what God made me. Why hurt other people and make them aware of what they are? We know what we are. The Black man knows what he is, and the White man knows what he is. We must find one another, help one another, carry one another, support one another and give one another everything we have. Do not do unto others what you would not want others to do unto you.

A great deal has been said about libraries and roads, as well as about the service to the roads, which the hon Administrator has explained to us to dispute the claims made by that man in that book. I am pleased to see that the roads in the Free State are being improved. There are a few roads which cross a railway line to the Coloured area in Bloemfontein which are very dangerous at present. There are people who lease a few houses from the Small Business Development Corporation. These people are being uprooted as a result of those roads. I ask the department that built that road—actually I think it was two or three departments—whether they first ensured that there was alternative accommodation for those people. That is really what you can call being uprooted. At the end of the month those poor people must pay for leasing the buildings.

Our CP friend said South Africa for South Africa, and Margaret Thatcher said England for England. That is correct. He did not say White for White. He said South Africa—that is South African for South African. We must help and support one another. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I just want to tell the hon member who spoke before me that the more he spoke, the more I was aware of the fact that the CP was on the right road. [Interjections.] I realise to an increasing extent that there is no other alternative for South Africa, and ultimately the struggle in South Africa is going to be between the CP, with its partition policy, and the NP with its policy of power-sharing. That will ultimately determine the course we take.

I want to thank the officials of the provincial administration of the Orange Free State for so specifically maintaining the prestige of the province. Every time I have dealings with any of the officials, I am struck by their friendliness and helpfulness. Their attitude is very praiseworthy, and I want to tell the hon the Administrator that he has good men and women who set an example that is worthy of emulation by certain other provinces. One is proud to have such men and women to help one and to serve one in one’s province.

I do just want to refer to the traffic officers too. They are not people who simply want to see what money they can get out of one. They are also people who are eager to assist. If one encounters a problematic situation, they are there to have given one the right answer and to tell one whether one is on the right track.

I have heard it said this afternoon that the PFP is not here, but I also see that hon members of the House of Delegates and the House of Representatives have withdrawn. They would have spoken, but ultimately did not. [Interjections.]

I should like to speak about the Pope’s visit to Lesotho last year. It is true that from my point of view, as an ex-clergyman, it was not very newsworthy, but unfortunately it was forced down our throats. Every television programme showed how the Pope was received and how he was given the red-carpet treatment. Was that in any way to our advantage? [Interjections.] In that visit I could see no positive advantage for South Africa. I also know that the Government would have liked to have given the visit low-profile status. If this visit had had only a religious objective, the Pope would not simply have visited a small group of people in Lesotho, but would definitely also have visited his people in South Africa. We can, however, clearly discern the political texture of this visit. Its aim was to show South Africa once again that it was, as it were, the polecat of the world—the country that should be reviled and relegated to the sidelines.

It appears that South Africa had to spend R364 000 to make the Pope’s visit a success. This money spend on enhancing the Pope’s visit came out of our pockets. For the most part it came out of the pockets of Protestants. [Interjections.]

Order! The hon member for Diamant must please give the hon member for Witbank a chance. It is his democratic right to put his case here.

Mr Chairman, I am accustomed to having little children cry when adults or a clergyman speak. Now we hear the children crying here too. [Interjections.]

As far as we know, the Pope’s visit cost us slightly in excess of R360 000. There are too many so-called spiritual leaders who propagate political aims under the cloak of spirituality.

I also want to speak about war veterans. I see that R830 000 per annum has been budgeted for war veterans. I see there are 243 Black war veterans. I want to ask the hon the Administrator please to tell us what wars are being taken into account in the budget. Where and for whom did these people fight? [Interjections.]

I should now like to tell the NP how matters stand as far as the CP is concerned. The hon member for Bethlehem walked through his so-called potato fields this morning, passed the damp spots (nat kolle) where the potatoes had formed fine tubers, and thought that that was what the whole country looked like. I want to tell him that there are many dry patches in his potato fields where the potatoes have long since wilted and where there are only minute little tubers.

You have never been in my potato fields!

The hon member will see what is going to happen. It reminds me of the farmer who only visited his well-irrigated lands. He is also a farmer—he knows what I am talking about.

A few months ago the HSRC published a report. The council conducted a scientific inquiry to ascertain, from the public, what party’s policy the average voter regarded as the best policy. As possibilities they contrasted the NP’s policy of power-sharing with the CP’s policy of partition. From the replies they received, 73% were in favour of the CP’s policy. Consequently some of the people voting for that party still have to cross over to the CP. Last year the HSRC also published a report in which it stated that only 24% of the NP voters said that power-sharing was the correct approach. 36% voted against power-sharing. They must still cross over to the CP. The CP is only 7 years old. It is still in its infancy and already has 43% of the support in the Free State. [Interjections.]

I want to assure hon members that many more CP members will be returned, after the next general election, than are now sitting here. [Interjections.] Hon NP members are now boasting about Sasolburg. What happened at Sasolburg? We know, do we not, that the NP and the bigwigs in the business world are in cahoots. On that day they arranged for a large number of CP voters to be working from morning to night so that they could not get to the polls. Surely hon members are aware of that! [Interjections.] Is that not what the NP does! What about the closure that lasted the whole day? [Interjections.] We shall see, however, that things will not always be that easy for the NP.

Last week there was a large municipal byelection in Carolina. Never before in its history had the NP been so active in Carolina. They paid three visits to every voter. There were so many placards that one would have thought it was the NP’s last-ditch stand. The CP did not even work very hard, but again the outcome was a resounding victory for the CP. They were even so certain that the NP would be victorious that the TV teams were transported there that evening. They were to record the scene and to show the world how the CP had been brought to its knees. What happened? One did not even hear about it, because the NP left with its tail between its legs.

In the recent town council election I thought that in every small town they were going to conduct the fight under the NP banner. What happened was that they conducted the fight under the NP banner in only 6 towns. The others were too ashamed. More than 20 CP councils that flew the CP banner were elected. [Interjections.] It is now boasted that Bloemfontein is an NP stronghold. No NP candidate stood in Bloemfontein, though there was, in fact, an action committee. Now suddenly they are emerging from their burrows like little foxes and saying what grand fellows they are.

Mr Chairman, is the hon member prepared to take a question?

No, I still have a long speech to make. [Interjections.]

The NP tries to dismiss the CP in the Free State as being something of little consequence, but after the next general election the NP in the Transvaal is going to dwindle to a very small entity.

I request that information be made available to us at an earlier stage. We only obtained the questions yesterday. It is difficult to go through such a thick working document so rapidly. There were very interesting questions, and the matters were dealt with quite thoroughly. We also thank those who worked on this for what they gave us. I do think, however, that we received this document far too late. It was only yesterday afternoon, too, that we received the budget for roads from the Department of Constitutional Development and Planning. This makes it very difficult to work through documents in time and to give the necessary information. [Interjections.]

I also want to say a few words about our appropriation for the Free State. In this appropriation the central government budgeted for an additional 15%, but only an additional 11,9% was budgeted for the Free State. What gives particular cause for concern is that an increasing amount of this province’s appropriation is being devoted to salaries and wages, whilst less and less is devoted to capital expenditures. As a result machinery and equipment are becoming obsolete, as is also evidenced in our hospitals, and this also applies to buildings. With what is the province going to continue carrying out his functions if everything becomes obsolete and eventually becomes completely dilapidated. More than 80% of the R107 million increase on last year’s appropriation has been spent on salary increases and the improvement of social pensions. The red light is flashing dangerously, however. There have been virtually no capital extensions. This indicates an imbalance, and I should like to ask the hon the Administrator and the officials to look into this, too, and to have provision made for this in the capital budget as well.

In connection with the road network in the Free State I asked a question about how many kilometres of roads in the province were toll roads. I actually want to emphasise the words “in the province”. The reply was that the Department of Transport was responsible for this and that we should therefore actually be asking the Department. Surely we know—it is common knowledge—that the Department of Transport deals with toll roads, but it is apparent from the reply to this question that the Free State has no knowledge whatsoever of how many kilometres of toll roads it has. Surely that cannot be the state of affairs! My specific question concerned the number of toll roads in the Free State, but the hon MEC could not even answer that question. It is a pity that he could not do so; I really do not believe that the Free State does not know how many kilometres of toll roads it has! I do not believe that the province is so uninformed. Surely the province must know how many roads it has to maintain as alternate routes. That was also the subject of my question, ie the cost of maintaining the alternate routes. It was not answered either. I think that quite a tidy sum was spent on maintaining these alternate routes, because I gather that in the Parys area, in particular, there is considerable traffic on the alternate routes in order to escape paying toll fees. The whole toll road set-up in our province is going to leave a bitter taste in the mouth. The province’s inhabitants must pay double. First they must help the Central Government construct the road, then they must enrich Tolcon, or someone else, by paying toll fees. A double levy is unacceptable to the inhabitants of the Free State.

We also realise that with last year’s floods a great deal of damage was done to the roads; that is true. I think that the hidden damage, which will only come to light in the long term, is greater than we suppose at this stage. I think that more funds should be budgeted for the Roads Department, particularly in the Free State—a vast area, sparsely populated in places.

I think there is an improvement as far as funds for roads are concerned. The maintenance could demand more than has been projected. It is also true that the inhabitants of other provinces travel on many of the Free State’s roads. And thinking about what the Free State’s roads looked like 20 to 25 years ago, in comparison with what they look like today, I want to give the department credit for the many improvements that have been made. It has done a good job. I gather that in the past the Provincial Administrations Roads Branch took decisions about the upgrading of roads on a rational basis. The planning was done on a rational basis. The decisive norms in deciding that specific roads would be given preference involved strictly judgmental processes and the determination of priorities on a rational basis. Economic and military reasons were the exceptions. What is tragic, however, is that there is suddenly another norm that has entered the picture. Since the advent of powersharing more than one dignitary in the Free State has adopted a philanthropic attitude. In more than one instance it is no longer determined what the rational answer is, but what the philanthropic answer is. Suddenly roads must be upgraded, roads which would not pass a test in which rational considerations prevailed. Roads in the vicinity of certain Black towns, in some of which there are only 10 cars, are suddenly being upgraded. The determination of priorities is suddenly no longer rational. They are being supplanted by philanthropic ideas. Fruitless expenditure of taxpayers’ money is the order of the day in some quarters. This results in the standards of roads again being lowered. With the great deal of rain last year, which caused the roads to crumble, and with the large maize and wheat crops—for which we are grateful, and which, in our view, will really help the Free State farmers this year—we should like to ask the Administration to take better care of the roads so that lives do not have to be sacrificed and so that the numbers of accidents do not increase. We ask them to assess their roads, not on a philanthropic basis, but on the basis of actual norms.

Then there is also Orangejag. I want to compliment the hon the Administrator on the area. Orangejag has done its best and has indicated to us what can be done. To spend R165 on every wild animal that is exterminated is really an achievement. A few times I myself have saddled up and accompanied these men, and I therefore realise what a sacrifice they have to make in getting up at night—even on cold winter nights—getting their dogs together and hitting the road. It is indeed an achievement!

I know that even in the Transvaal vermin cannot be exterminated as is being done in the Free State. The farmers are probably very grateful, and I think I can also speak on their behalf by saying we are grateful for the assistance that is offered in exterminating the vermin and therefore curtailing stock losses.

Squatting and local government funding give cause for concern. The squatting is unsightly when one is driving past a town such as Ventersburg, for example. One’s first impression, when driving from Winburg, is that of the large squatter town on one’s right. It sprang up there like a huge mushroom. I wonder whether the inhabitants of Ventersburg are satisfied with that state of affairs? It is merely another monument to the government, something the CP will have to rectify at a later stage.

It seems impossible to determine the funds received by local authorities from the province. According to the budget, R43 million is being set aside for bridging finance for this financial year. Apparently only R23 million has been spent. My question is: Why does one budget for such a large amount when so little has been requested in the previous year? Why the tremendous increase in the budget? To a question posed by the hon member for Standerton, the reply was that since 1986 an interest-free loan of R164 million has been made to local authorities in the form of bridging finance. By the way, I understand that another province has acknowledged that these funds can simply be written off because it would never be possible to recover them. Will that also be the case as far as the OFS is concerned? Will the loan of R164 million, which has already been granted, be recovered, or will it also merely be written off as if it had vanished into a bottomless pit? It appears that local authorities themselves have not generated any funds with which to continue with their functions. Are there then no funds forthcoming via the local authorities themselves? Is it merely a question of the province giving and then giving again? This is indeed, proverbially speaking, a question of putting the cart before the horse.

Apparently the local authorities had not even been given the proper guidance, but immediately had to take the lead. I feel very sorry for many for these individuals. They immediately had to take the lead, without knowing precisely what they were letting themselves in for. The government has created vacuums without making provision for the consequences. The NP has tried to achieve a political victory, but what about the tremendous pressure of the losses in regard to the creation of prosperity? The result is that we have a local authority, lawfully elected, but without any coordination of functions within the province, without financial viability and without the necessary expert staff. It is well-known that many of the staff members appointed there are not competent enough to do their work. Many of the applicants are completely unqualified to do the work. So there is apparently no single Black local authority in the Free State that is functioning effectively.

I am grateful for the opportunity given me to speak, and I hope that next year there will be a few Free Staters here who will themselves take the floor for the CP.

Mr Chairman, I do not want to say it is a great privilege to speak after the hon member for Witbank, but they do give one an advantage. One need not look at the speech one has been preparing; one can simply refer to everything they let fly at random when they stand at this podium.

Before I deal with that, I want to tell our hon Administrator, the members of the Free State’s Executive Committee and specifically the gentlemen with whom I had the privilege of serving in the interests of the Free State on a prior occasion, that it is a privilege to reflect, to plan and to serve the Free State together, also in these circumstances. I have great appreciation for these hon gentlemen who have dedicated a lifetime to the interests of the Free State and the conditions of its people. I do not want to be as hypocritical as the hon member for Witbank by praising the officials and immediately afterwards saying how terrible they are. I should like to thank the officials of the Free State, most of whom have spent a lot of time in the service of the inhabitants of the Free State, for the attitude in which they help us as members of Parliament to do our task in the interests of the voters and the people of the Free State.

Order! Can the hon member explain whether he was referring to the member in question or to his policy when he used the word “hypocritical”?

Mr Chairman, I was referring to what they advocate.

Order! In other words the hon member was referring to the policy, not the person.

No, not the person. [Interjections.] Unfortunately the hon member has left the House, but I do want to react to a few things he said here.

He began with the Pope’s visit. He said that we in the Ladybrand constituency had wasted money. CP members referred inter alia to how well they had organised things in the Transvaal. That church service is a historic meeting that takes place every year, a meeting for which the NP makes preparations so that they can have it in peace and tranquillity. The Pope’s visit was an event that takes place once in a lifetime, perhaps even in more than one lifetime. We are not obsessed with the Pope’s visit and the fact that he travelled through my constituency. We in Ladybrand were prepared for any unexpected happening, because there were certain expectations and expectations were created.

Mr Chairman, may I ask the hon member whether he is aware that the Pope also travelled through the Winburg constituency? [Interjections.]

I have good relations with my neighbouring MP. I am not so sure that the Pope travelled through his constituency too, but I do not begrudge him the expense if that is true. [Interjections.]

We should not regard the Pope’s visit in as negative a light as the CP regards all things. I know that money was spent, and afterwards it is easy to say the money was wasted. What point is there in that, however? It helps us to be prepared for every possible circumstance that can arise, not only in my constituency but also in the country. Even the Transvaal, where they have so many problems and the CP says they are governing, can come and learn from us how to deal with that kind of situation. [Interjections.]

When do you expect the Pope to visit again?

He wants to go and sell hotdogs! [Interjections.]

Order! Will the hon member for Ladybrand resume his seat for a moment? I wish to appeal to the people in the gallery not to laugh out loud or to make a noise. That is not permitted in Parliament or during a sitting of Parliament. I have permitted it up to now, but it may not happen again.

There is another aspect with regard to what the hon member for Witbank said here that disturbs me. He contends that we are wasting money on building roads in the Free State. He said something else. He also said our priorities had changed in determining which roads should be built. I do not want to come out in support of the hon members of the Executive Committee. They are quite capable of reacting to this matter themselves, but I can assure them that the Free State is governed by Nationalists. I shall come back to the eagerness with which the CP has said today that they would like to govern in the Free State, and I do not blame them. It is a privilege to govern in the Free State. It is a privilege to work with people in the Free State as we do. I want to say, however, that it is not our objective summarily to waste money, and we do not waste money on roads. The circumstances were abnormal. With reference to my constituency, it was said this morning that we had received only R19 million of a total R53 million from the central Government. We did not spend our time crying about that. We shall do our best to get more money, but even with that meagre amount we resolved the situation and created something reasonable for those who live in the Free State despite the fact that roads were breaking up—not because our officials had not done good work, but because of abnormal climatic conditions and too much moisture in my constituency. No one could have foreseen that.

The hon member for Witbank may as well know this. There is a road from Ladybrand to Clocolan. The hon member can come and take a look at it. Despite the fact that tar has disintegrated there, those holes are filled up every day, and one can use that road with confidence and without danger. It is not pleasant for us, but we in the Free State can be reasonable and show understanding when nature plunges us into abnormal circumstances.

I listened to the hon member for Standerton this morning. I am pleased that he is proud of having been born in the Free State and of having received his schooling there, and that, as he said, he is happy to stay in the Free State.

Stop praising me!

I do not blame him for being so keen to be a good Free Stater. I do not blame any CP member, because the Free State is such a lovely place that I know the hon member yearns for the atmosphere of the Free State that he is experiencing here with us as a guest. Not one of the hon CP members is an elected member for the Free State. The hon member has merely come here to see whether or not he can impress the Free State voters, because I know the CP would dearly love to have a constituency in the Free State. It will not be as easy as the hon member contended to take constituencies in the next election, however. Ostensibly the CP would also have taken Ladybrand during the last election. I want to tell the hon member that it is not the style of the Free State to have big mouths. We are not a big province, nor do we have big mouths. I want to tell the CP that they must not tell us how they are going to win the constituencies in the Free State. They must prove it first, and then I shall take off my hat to them, but not before then.

You are not boasting much now!

No, I am bringing the hon member back to earth to show him how we act and govern in the Free State.

I should like to refer to a few aspects that were also mentioned here this morning. We have many privileges, and we have those privileges because of the courage of the NP in South Africa. We have the privilege of serving with different population groups in the interests of the Free State and in the interests of South Africa. I had the privilege, when these joint debates began, of being able to participate. I listened to many speeches which were filled with emotion. I listened to many speeches in which people expressed acrimony. I accepted that, because I should like everyone to have an opportunity to express those things that bother them deep down. Last year we also had rather acrimonious comments in this extended committee.

I want to make an appeal today. If we want to serve the Free State in the spirit in which we have negotiated with one another so far, we must push these things aside. Reproachful and pointed remarks do not lead to better race relations. I was born in the Southern Free State. I also grew up in an area with little grass and many bitterberry bushes, but bitter-berry bushes do not make me bitter. I learnt to acclimatise to difficult circumstances, to droughts on the one hand and to the prosperous circumstances we are experiencing in the Free State at the moment on the other. I learnt one thing, however, and that is to work under all conditions and to try to improve my position. Then I do not keep on trying to blame someone else for the difficult position I find myself in.

The hon member for Southern Free State and I come from the same area, and I want to ask him, if something unfortunate happened at a beautiful resort that none of us begrudge our people of colour in the Free State, and which we obtained with the same enthusiasm, to stop blaming apartheid or any other aspect for the racial friction that arose. Let us accept that situation. Let us rectify it, but let us stop flinging reproaches by saying that it was caused by some or other bogy.

I do not know what the situation there was, but when racial friction arises, we must see whether there was not a lack of maturity in those specific circumstances. Then we need not reproach one another. I accept that from a Southern Free Stater, but then we must not blame apartheid and fling reproaches. I request that in the interests of the Free State, because the hon member for Southern Free State and we other Southern Free Staters are not used to differing from one another in a reproachful way. I want to make a serious appeal. Let us build race relations that must improve, and not do anything that can cause more racial friction.

Perhaps I can elaborate even more on this aspect. I should like to tell a good friend of mine who became very emotional today, the hon member for Heidedal, that we have a right to differ with one another. I differ with the hon member for Heidedal when it comes to separate residential areas, but if he has the right to request that everything be thrown open as far as he is concerned, surely I have the right to say I differ. I think it is in the interests of South Africa to have separate residential areas for separate groups. Surely we can differ on that point in an orderly fashion. We need not abuse one another because of it. We can differ with one another in a responsible way, but once we have indicated our differences, we can still serve the Free State and its interests for all its people.

I should like to refer briefly to the hon member for Lichtenburg. There has been considerable reference to this today. I merely want to ask one thing. The hon member must not try to impress voters by saying that in Europe the different peoples established different countries. We know that. We all took history. [Interjections.]

The hon member for Witbank had his turn. He had left when I reacted to him. [Interjections.]

I should like to say only one thing to the hon member for Lichtenburg: Our situation in South Africa is not at all comparable with the situation in Europe. Not at all. [Interjections.]

I experience this in my home town as well. We have established political churches and I find that certain people become dissatisfied there too, because they are becoming more and more confused. Then they come to some of my voters with all kinds of ideologies and little verses from the Bible. We must not take certain verses out of the Bible and then run away with them. We must take the whole period into consideration. That is why I request that we forget about one little leitmotif that there are different population groups in Europe too. That cannot be compared with South Africa. It cannot be compared with South Africa at all. I merely want to tell hon members: We in South Africa have our own circumstances, and the NP is not afraid of dealing with those unique circumstances. Nor are we afraid, like the CP, who want to herd us together in one small piece of Sahara in South Africa. We shall keep the whole of South Africa orderly. Hon members need not be afraid; they can stay in South Africa with confidence. We shall ensure that there is peace around us, also for the sake of these hon members. We shall work and spend money to that end, because it is in the interests of everyone who lives here. It is also in the interests of the voters who are represented by the hon members of the CP that there is order and development in Southern Africa, and not only in small units where Whites live.

I should like to say something about my own constituency. The Free State is blooming, the Free State is beautiful. Our hon Administrator referred to that this morning. He pointed out the contribution made by the Free State in the interests of South Africa’s food production. It is my privilege to live in a constituency that is involved in this enormous contribution that is made by agriculture in the Free State. We are also privileged in that the Free State’s garden route is in my constituency.

Are you bragging?

I am bragging, because I am bragging with good people in a good area in the Free State. I should like to appeal to the central Government to let us have larger amounts of money in these circumstances we are experiencing, where conditions are abnormal, in order to help that area which has serious problems with regard to road building. I also appeal for sufficient money to upgrade and repair the roads of that garden route in the interests of the whole of the Free State, but also in the interests of the whole country. I should like to refer to what I really came here to say today. The CP provokes one too much, however. [Time expired.]

Business interrupted.

Mr Chairman and hon members, as you are aware the lower gold price, sanctions, the unfavourable dollar-Rand exchange rate and many other factors have contributed towards the weakening in the balance of payments of South Africa, and this, together with the need for current expenditure to be financed as far as possible without using borrowed funds, has no doubt contributed towards the pursuance by the Government of a policy of monetary restriction whereby all Government departments are required to contain public sector spending to the lowest level possible without serious disruption of existing services. The province has prepared its estimates for 1989-90 accordingly.

On this basis, therefore, the assessed needs of the province have had to be pruned drastically against the original requirements as presented to the Treasury in March 1988. The Hospital, Medical and Health Services Vote was the area most severely affected by the reduction in the requirements of R98,7 million. The province was given the opportunity in November 1988 of presenting a case for additional funds, bearing in mind the need to contain public sector spending. I am pleased to report that this culminated in an additional allocation of R40 million being granted to the province for injection into the budget of hospitals.

At this point may I also say that the Cabinet lent a sympathetic ear to Natal’s financial problems in regard to the costs associated with the devastation caused by the 1987-88 floods in Natal and, through the Treasury, granted an additional R95 million for inclusion in the Additional Estimates of the province for 1988-89, and R77 million for the 1989-90 estimates.

As a consequence of the paucity of funds over the past few years and damage caused by floods to roads and bridges, the emphasis in Natal has shifted from the construction of new roads to the maintenance and reconstruction of the existing road infrastructure. In 1989-90, therefore, the provision for the construction of new roads has been decreased, whereas the provision for the maintenance, repair and improvement of roads in Natal reflects an increase.

*The 1988-89 financial year

I shall now refer briefly to the province’s financial position in view of the fact that the province’s books for the 1988-89 financial year are soon to be closed. After reviewing the province’s needs for 1988-89 and the available revenue, additional estimates for R166,835 million were drawn up for inclusion in the Additional Appropriation Bill of Parliament. This represents an increase of 12,7%. It was necessary to make provision for funds under the various Votes in order to cover the following: The cost of flood damage, R94,794 million; development of extramural facilities by local authorities, R14,75 million; the cost of capital roadworks in the Roads Department delayed as a result of the 1987-88 floods, R5,439 million; costs pertaining to the increased fuel price and surcharge on certain items, R3,911 million; the rapid increase in the number of Black pensioners, particularly old-age pensioners, which rose from 37 682 to 46 980, that is 24,7%, during the period of 19 months from 1 April 1987 when this function was transferred to the province, as well as the general increase which was granted in respect of social pensions with effect from 1 January 1989, R19,561 million; the deficit in respect of general salary adjustments of 15% and improved conditions of service for certain occupational groups, R27,987 million; and lastly the employer’s share in pension and provident funds and medical aid as a result of the devolution of the functions of 11 hospitals and institutions and Government motor transport, R16,156 million. If provision is made for the additional estimates, a final estimate of the budget for 1988-89 shows that the figures are expected to break even.

†The 1989-90 Financial Year

I shall now deal with the estimates of the province for 1989-90, commencing first of all with revenue.

Revenue 1989-90

Estimated revenue as reflected in the printed estimates amounts to R1577,531 million, which is R266,185 million or 20,3% higher than the estimated revenue in the original estimates for 1988-89. An increase of R51,787 million or 26,5% is anticipated in respect of provincial taxation and departmental receipts and can be attributed mainly to the following: Totalisator tax, betting tax and licence fees, R4,973 million, which is as a result of increased support of racing by the public; motor vehicle registration and licence fees which will yield an anticipated increase of R17 million which is due to an increase in fees as from November 1988; the introduction of a heavy vehicles levy, R32,654 million, which will be offset by a comparable reduction in the Treasury allocation; a substantial increase in hospital fees with effect from 1 April 1989, R11 million; and finally, revenue accruing from devolved hospitals which accounts for R2,2 million.

In regard to the head of revenue: Allocations, grants etc, the estimated revenue for 1989-90 totals R1330,382 million as against the original estimate for 1988-89 of R1115,984 million, which is an increase of R214,398 million or 19,2%.

This increase can be ascribed to an increase of R222,48 million in the allocation from the Treasury as a charge against the State Revenue Account, details of which are set out in the explanatory memorandum given to hon members.

On the other hand, certain funds allocated to the province for various services and catered for in the original estimates for 1988-89 no longer form part of the province’s budget because of the transfer of those functions requiring such services to be provided for in the budgets of other Government departments, the largest of such being in regard to municipal police, involving the sum of R9,218 million.

Expenditure 1989-90

I shall now deal with the estimates of expenditure, but before I proceed to deal with the various Votes of the province, I should like to provide the Committee with an overall picture of the province’s estimates of expenditure for 1989-90. As I mentioned earlier, an amount of R1577,531 million, which is R266,185 million or 20% greater than the provision for 1988-89, is available for distribution amongst the province’s Votes in 1989-90. Of this increased amount, R218,317 million represents services which devolved to the province against which have been set off services which were transferred from the province, as well as funds to finance specific services such as flood relief projects, improved service conditions and a general increase in social pensions which leaves a minimal amount of R47,868 million only, or 3,7% of the total budget for 1989-90 to cover inflation and areas of growth. This amounts to a negative growth rate and it is therefore obvious that the province was required to cut back certain of its services to be able to frame its estimates within the available funds.

An underlying reason for the increases in each Vote is of course the 15% general salary adjustment and approved occupational specific dispensations for a full year, and I shall therefore in what follows deal only with additional reasons for increases.

Vote 1—General Administration:

An amount of R71,392 million has been provided for Vote No 1 in 1989-90, which is R21,099 million or 42% greater than the origin provision for 1988-89. The main additional reasons for the increase can be ascribed to:

• — provision for charges to be levied by the Commission for Administration for computer services rendered to the province, and
• — provision to cover the employer’s share of pension and provident funds and medical aid fund contributions as a result of the devolution of functions in connection with 11 hospitals and institutions and Government motor transport.

Vote 2—Hospitals, Medical and Health Services:

The provision of R768,726 million represents more than 48% of the province’s total budget of R1 577,531 million. The provision for 1989-90 is R131,783 million or 20,7% greater than the original provision for 1988-89, and the additional reasons for the increase can be attributed mainly to:

• — provision made for the extension of salary adjustments to the personnel of mission hospitals and institutions which receive subsidies from the province,
• — provision for certain aspects of the functions of the 11 hospitals and institutions which devolved from the Department of National Health and Population Development,
• — provision for the implementation of a computerised hospitals information system, and
• — far greater provision to cover the acquisition of absolutely essential medical equipment, medical supplies and ambulances.

Vote 3—Roads and Bridges:

The increase of R67,72 million allowed on this Vote represents an increase of 25,6% which, subject to the proviso already stated, can be attributed mainly to:

• — a greater provision for the financing of flood relief projects,
• — a net increase of R12,285 million in respect of subheads K—Road Maintenance, Repairs and Betterment, and L—Construction of Roads and Bridges. As I mentioned earlier, the emphasis has shifted from the provision of new roads to the maintenance of existing road infrastructure and thus the provision for the construction of roads and bridges reflects a decrease, whereas it will be observed that there is a substantial increase in the provision for the maintenance of roads, and
• — a need to provide a greater provision for subsidies to local authorities to cover the cost of increased maintenance of main roads following the 1987-88 floods as well as the proportional allocation of motor vehicle tax to local authorities for roads.

*Vote 4—Works:

Provision for 1989-90 shows an increase of R3,685 million above the provision for 1988-89 which, subject to the proviso already stated, can be attributed mainly to:

• — a greater provision for the acquisition of land and buildings, which includes land for nature conservation.

Vote 5—Miscellaneous Services:

An amount of R114,560 million has been provided for this Vote for 1989-90, which is R30,114 million or 35,7% higher than the original provision for 1988-89. The increase can be attributed mainly to:

• — increased aid to statutory bodies subsidised by the province. The increased subsidy covers the rising costs as well as the result of a full year’s expenditure in respect of the general salary adjustment of 15% and further occupational specific dispensations granted to public servants. Such salary adjustments were granted to personnel of the Natal Parks Board, the Development and Services Board, the Natal Sharks Board and the Natal Council for the Performing Arts.

In respect of the Natal Parks Board additional funds totalling R3,750 billion were allocated to the board in view of the fact that the board accepted responsibility for environmental conservation functions in State forests which had devolved upon the province from the Department of Environment Affairs. An amount of R1 million was also allocated to the board for a very necessary injection of funds into its capital development programme.

The increase can also be attributed to:

• — a greater provision for the financing of flood relief projects undertaken by local authorities and water service corporations.

Vote 6—Community Services:

The provision for 1989-90 is R19,866 million or 9,9% higher than the original provision for 1988-89 and refers mainly to:

• — a considerably increased provision of approximately R30,073 million to cover the increased costs of civil pensions which can be attributed to the rapid increase in the number of Black pensioners, as well as the general increase which was granted for civil pensioners, against which decreased provisions for many of the subheads of the budget have been set off, the largest of which are grants-in-aid and subsidies, and the provision for municipal police which lapsed when this function was devolved upon the South African Police.

Vote 7—Improvement of Conditions of Service:

This Vote provides for the cost of the first year’s expenditure in connection with improved conditions of service for officials and employers of the Natal Provincial Administration and the personnel of the statutory bodies and mission hospitals to whom such salary adjustments have been granted—on condition that the statutory bodies and mission hospitals are subsidised by the province. Expenditure in this regard is charged against the various Votes of the province.

If a Vote is exceeded, the excess can only be supplemented out of this Vote to an amount not exceeding the expenditure with regard to improved conditions of service. The Commission for Administration, through the Treasury, has allocated an amount of R1,52 million for the 1989-1990 financial year, which represents a decrease of R8,082 million.

†Mr Chairman and hon members, I have now dealt with the main features of the 1989-1990 budget of the province which I trust will prove to be of benefit to hon members in the deliberations which are to follow.

Mr Chairman, it is both an honour and a privilege to follow the hon the Administrator. Natal is indeed fortunate to have the services of such an accomplished person as the hon the Administrator. He is well-known for his incisive approach and is a past master at the art of debate. We on this side of the House would like to record our sincere thanks to the hon the Administrator and his executive committee for their sterling and untiring endeavours on behalf of Natal.

Economically speaking there is unfortunately only one cake and only so many slices into which that cake can, or should, be cut. Whichever way one cuts the cake there is always the problem of reconciling the people’s unlimited wants on the one hand with the limited means on the other.

It is indeed interesting to note that the expenditure for the province of Natal in 1980-1981 was R436,587 million, while this year, 1989-1990, the expenditure has risen to R1,577 billion. That means it has more than trebled in 10 years or is, if hon members prefer, a 261% increase.

On this basis of escalation I think we should stand back and ask ourselves if we can continue to demand unjustifiably high standards in many spheres of our national life. In all seriousness I think the time has surely come for everybody—that is the public and the private sector as well as the individual—to reassess and review these high standards.

The point is, can we go on kidding ourselves that we are a First World country and go on demanding First World standards when in fact we are more a Third World country than anything else? We are going to have to get used to the user paying more and more to ensure cost recovery of services provided. We shall have to accept that the halcyon days are past when the State subsidised all manner of activities on a blanket basis without regard to the financial capabilities of the recipients.

When there is still a valid case for subsidies—and there are many such cases—assistance will increasingly have to be granted on a selective basis and be duly accounted for in the budget. In other words, the principle of affordability will have to be the order of the day.

I would like to quote the hon the Minister of Finance who says:

I would be failing in my duty if I did not use this opportunity to pay tribute to the hon member for Umlazi who was until recently the first chairman of the joint committee for this province. He set an extremely high standard as chairman. His knowledge of the ramifications of the committee work was undisputed and he was seen as a very competent and a fair presider. The example he set will be difficult to emulate. On behalf of his colleagues of the committee may I express our sincere thanks and appreciation to him for the outstanding service he rendered to this province and at the same time may we wish him well and every success with his new committee.

May I also express to the provincial secretary and his staff the joint committee’s thanks for once again showing their efficiency for providing the written answers to the committee members’ questions in such a very short space of time.

May we also express our sincere thanks to the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee, for his understanding, patience and the competent manner in which he handled the information session yesterday.

I would also like to record my thanks to the members of the joint committee for their kind co-operation and to say to them that I am looking forward to working together as a team on the road ahead of constitutional reform. Although we all differ politically, I like to think that each and every one of us in his own way has a common goal and that is what we think is best for Natal and our country in the changing and challenging times we find ourselves in.

We have but started on the long and arduous road of constitutional reform. Many of us have fears, others have doubts and yet others are outright sceptical as to the reform process, its pace and its ultimate end. What further compounds the situation are the intricacies of the politics of the day, erroneous perceptions and obduracy and, for that matter, so-called demands or confrontations.

In my opinion we have yet to find each other. In the true sense we have yet to really understand each other’s fears and hopes for the future. It is only on occasions such as these where we have joint debate and can express our opinions and views that we will ultimately find each other.

However, there is a proviso to that. We have to listen and take note of other points of view. Only then will that long road ahead be easier to navigate and further much-needed constitutional reform accelerated. We have in the next few days and in this debate that challenge before us, a challenge which in my opinion can be summed up in two words, empathy and tolerance.

I have the confidence that all of us will accept that challenge, thus maintaining the dignity and traditions not only of Parliament, but also of this Legislative Assembly which celebrates its 100th anniversary later this month. We in Natal are indeed fortunate and should be extremely grateful to our forefathers that we have such an assembly in which to meet and debate our future. None of the other provinces have thus far met in their old provincial legislatures because of being unable to accommodate the numbers involved.

I would like to look at the history of this fine building for a few minutes. On 21 June 1887 the foundation stone of the new legislative building was laid and the ceremony formed part of the local celebrations of Queen Victoria’s golden jubilee. The building was completed two years later and on 25 April 1889 the Governor of Natal, Sir Arthur Havelock, opened the first legislative council session in the new building. The governor’s guard of honour included British cavalry and infantry from the Sixth Dragoons and the 64th Regiment and a detachment of 40 school cadets from Maritzburg College who added a homely touch to the grand colonial occasion.

This chamber that we are sitting in is architecturally noteworthy in that all three forms of classical pillars are present, namely Ionic, Doric and Corinthian. There are not many buildings in the world that have these features present in one room. The grained and varnished ceiling is made of yellowwood and completed in the Victorian herringbone style with carved and fretted roses. There are massive beams on a semi-vaulted support.

The cast-iron railings and the pillars supporting the galleries were forged by W McFarlane & Co of Glasgow, famous Victorian manufacturers who supplied the decorative ironwork for many South African buildings.

Possibly the most impressive piece of furniture in the council is the carved wooden throne, the canopy and the dais which is occupied by the chairman when the council is in session. This was originally used by the Speaker of the Natal Legislative Assembly. On a canopy is the royal coat of arms of Great Britain, which is the shield supported by the lion and the unicorn. Below this is the Natal colonial coat of arms showing the two black wildebeests coursing from dexter to sinister. The Natal provincial coat of arms has a wildebeest coursing in the opposite direction. This change was made by the Royal College of Heralds in London as the original direction of the wildebeest implied retreat.

We should all feel privileged to be sitting in this historic Chamber and to be able to debate our political future and our future constitutional reform.

I would now like to touch on a few matters of a more parochial nature if time permits. A very controversial matter with which we have to deal at the moment is the discharge of sewage into the sea at the coast. This has unfortunately become a you-and-us situation, with some emotions running very high indeed. I am very concerned because I do not want to see history repeated with an emotive issue forced on a community because of, some say, purely financial considerations.

May I ask whether there is long-term plan for the disposal of sewage into the sea, or is this investigation being done on an ad hoc basis? I do know that there is a long-term plan for a regional land-based sewage disposal system in the area under question, which incidentally cost thousands of rand to investigate and plan. Has this plan been shelved?

Has any investigation or research been completed into the economic potential of processed sewage? I look at but one, namely the creation of fish farms. On that subject alone one could expand ad infinitum, not to mention the good effect which it could have on the environment. In my opinion land is not a problem for such consideration at this stage, but food is. When one looks at a million people who are underdeveloped, underutilised and unemployed in the area, then one has to look at the long-term benefits and not the short-term advantages.

Let us look at the “what if” questions. I want to name but a few. What if a pipeline is damaged or is broken during heavy seas, which are common? Is there a standby, or will the sewage be discharged into the surf? What if this happens during peak season? What if every local authority up and down the coast decides to discharge the sewage into the Indian Ocean? Has a survey of psychological reaction to a regional outpour system been taken, because the lower south coast is a prime tourist area with unbelievable potential? Tourism is one of its main means of economic survival and the competition to attract tourists is fierce indeed. Why, if there is an evaluation by consulting engineers that an outpour line is not a viable proposition, was a further investigation instigated by the same engineers?

There are questions and more questions. I certainly do not want to question the bona fides of the scientists—my motive is far from that—but do they know what the long-term effects of such an outpour pipe are going to be? We do, however, know that in a land-based sewage disposal system we can use the processed sew age. We can create artificial lakes and artificial marshland. If we can do that, then surely we can produce food. Is this not the direction in which we should be going, not to mention the conservation of the priceless commodity of water?

When the vast majority of local authorities and their residents are against an outpour line into the sea in a particular area, I feel that the higher authorities should stop and take note of such opposition. I am sure that the MEC in charge of local government has taken note of this and I look forward to his reaction thereto.

I would now like to look at another problem which is causing concern in our business community and that is the delay in obtaining a corporate or juristic vote at municipal level. At present, the qualifications for municipal voters in Natal are contained in the Local Authorities Ordinance, No 25 of 1974, which restricts the municipal franchise to natural persons. This is also the case in the Transvaal, although in the Cape and the Orange Free State juristic persons enjoy the municipal franchise.

The Local Government Bodies Franchise Act, No 117 of 1984, provides for a uniform municipal voting system throughout the Republic and extends the franchise to juristic persons owning rateable property in the area concerned. This Act has not yet been implemented because it depends for its implementation on further legislation prescribing the mechanics of elections and the redelimitation of wards in municipal areas.

In 1986 the Local Government Bodies Electoral Bill was introduced to deal with these matters, but was opposed by the Indian and Coloured Chambers in Parliament and has not yet been proceeded with. Consequently, the old franchise system has remained in force and the municipal elections which took place in October 1988 had to take place in terms of the old electoral system. The private sector believes that it is now urgently necessary to afford businesses a say in the conduct of municipal affairs throughout the country, particularly in view of the increased contributions to municipal rate income and their contributions through levies imposed by RSCs.

The extent to which political action taken at municipal level may affect the interests of commerce and industry provides a further compelling argument in favour of a juristic vote. They also believe that the matter can no longer be shelved, pending the resolution of the impasse created by the Local Government Bodies Electoral Bill. Separate and independent legislation must be enacted as soon as possible to extend a juristic franchise to Natal in order to bring them into line with the Cape and the Orange Free State. May I respectfully ask the hon MEC to comment in this regard?

Mr Chairman, I once again welcome the opportunity of being in this Chamber and participating in a joint debate of this nature.

Whilst we have a nominated Executive Committee, I am hopeful that in the not too distant future there may be an all-elected, non-racial provincial council in this Chamber. Even the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning hinted the other day that the provincial councils may be elected very soon and I am looking forward to that. We are the transitional group and are here to make way for the inevitable.

I would like to refer to the comments made by the hon the Administrator who in his speech clearly indicated—I agree with that—that international policy, sanctions and other factors have affected the availability of funds in South Africa, which consequently had an effect on services which may be provided by the public sector.

Whilst this may be so, let us not forget something even worse than that, namely the triplication, quadruplication and proliferation of Government structures which is even more costly. To my mind the effect of this is even worse. I believe that if we did not have this proliferation and this expansion of bureaucracies based on the idea of entrenching race identities in this country, then perhaps we would not have had the international problems with which we are confronted.

When I compare what Natal has done in the past two decades I feel very pleased to be a Natalian. In spite of the constraints placed on the province of Natal at the second tier of government, I believe that in this time it has endeavoured to make a positive contribution towards the reform processes at regional and local government level and I would like to deal with those aspects very briefly.

At the regional level the role of the previous hon MEC in jointly initiating the KwaZulu-Natal Indaba was indeed positive and meaningful. I would be failing here if I did not acknowledge the positive role of the late Mr Frank Martin, former MEC, as well as the positive attitude and role of Dr Oscar Dhlomo and the Chief Minister of the KwaZulu Cabinet. Natal made a positive contribution towards a solution at provincial level. The Kwa-Natal Indaba Proposals are a genuine attempt to accommodate all the people of Natal within a regional structure, agreed upon after negotiations and consensus. Furthermore, it is only the cynics and the racist opportunists who would undermine these proposals.

It is indeed significant that central Government and the KwaZulu Government have now at long last agreed upon and established a joint committee to examine the Natal Indaba Proposals. I am of the opinion that the nominated hon MECs who are supposed to represent the interests of all the people of Natal, must be seen to be actively involved in promoting the principles of the KwaZulu-Natal Indaba.

Only a negotiated settlement acceptable to the majority of the people of Natal can ensure relative stability and peace in this province of ours. It would be folly for the Executive Committee to continue acting as mere functionaries of the Government and to implement legislation which goes against the wishes of the majority of the people of Natal.

At this juncture let me quote an article in the Natal Mercury of 4 March 1989. This article deals with the comments of the Chief Minister of KwaZulu, Dr Mangosuthu Buthelezi. I acknowledged earlier that he is indeed making a positive contribution towards regional solutions; I think most sane people acknowledge that. This is what he says with reference to RSCs:

Here I must warn that it would be wrong to scuttle the positive factors that are emerging as a result of this committee that has been established between the South African Government and the KwaZulu Government. If the implementation of RSCs in Natal can scuttle this then I suggest we should delay it. Let the regional solution for the whole of Natal be resolved before considering the question of the implementation of RSCs in a form acceptable to the majority of the people. I have no difficulty with the concept of RSCs—I have said this in Parliament and I say it here again—but if the implementation of RSCs in Natal is going to scuttle and destroy the good will that has been built up we must be wary of this. I believe the Executive Committee cannot rationalise its argument by suggesting that RSCs will only apply to areas not controlled by KwaZulu. Because of the very fact that the hon MEC might want to do that—while saying it is very important because the central Government has asked him to do so—I suggest that the Executive Committee has a responsibility to all the people of Natal and a responsibility to let the Government know precisely what the feelings in this particular region are. The argument that RSCs are only going to apply to areas not controlled by KwaZulu is an argument which is absurd in the extreme. It is a potent factor that could destroy the proposals of the Natal-KwaZulu Indaba. That will set the clock back 50 years.

Let me remind hon members that when the Natal-KwaZulu Indaba Proposals were first revealed, the Natal leaders shot them down like bitter poison, much to the amazement of the people of Natal. It is gratifying, however, that good sense has subsequently prevailed. The hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning in his role as Acting State President acted correctly in meeting Dr Mangosuthu Buthelezi and Dr Oscar Dhlomo in retrieving the proposals of the Natal-KwaZulu Indaba. In my opinion this initiative appears to dovetail with the view of the newly elected leader of the NP, Minister F W De Klerk, when he proposed a great indaba of all South Africans. The Executive Committee of Natal must not wittingly or unwittingly damage the spirit of reform. The Executive Committee must be at the forefront of reform if it wishes to be relevant in the Natal of tomorrow.

I now want to get on to the next aspect which is the local government level. It is evident that Natal seems to have lost its thrust in local government. It is significant that the Executive Committee of Natal made proposals at local government level which were different from other provinces. Within the constraints of Government policy and within the constraints of other attitudes Natal made some significant proposals in the late 1970s. Here I refer to the Watterson Plan which attempted to amend the ordinance so that people of colour could be elected to existing local government structures, albeit by separate ethnic rules. The Government did not give its assent to these proposals. This led to frustration which was compounded when members of the Executive Committee, the Natal Municipal Association and local authorities in Natal blamed the central Government for not allowing the Watterson Plan to be implemented. I must also say that the Watterson Plan made an attempt to bring about change in this province at local government level after much discussion and negotiation between leaders within the community. These were leaders who might not have enjoyed total support, but a genuine attempt was made. When the Government turned it down in the late 1970s we were not happy.

Since then a lot of water has flowed under the bridge. The Government has now promulgated the Free Settlement Areas Act which is not perfect from the point of view of people of colour. However, it allows the Executive Committee, the Natal Municipal Association and local authorities in Natal, if they are really sincere, to use the provisions of this Act to establish non-racial areas. The acid test has now come, but there is a challenge. The challenge is to those who blamed the Government for not allowing the implementation of the Watterson Plan. The challenge is: What will the Natal Municipal Association say to its constituents now? The Natal Municipal Association has every right to use the provisions of the Free Settlement Areas Act to implement a non-racial local authority if it wishes. I can see the reactions there and I can understand those reactions.

You voted against it.

I voted against it because my perception is that it is not correct. I want the whole of South Africa to be non-racial. I want the hon member to understand that they have been hiding behind Government policy for a long time, but now the Cabinet has made this possible. The acid test to see if they really are interested and sincere has come.

What is the situation? I have a book in which a question as to how many areas have applied for free settlement area status is asked. The answer I have is none. That is what the Executive Committee has said.

What about Phoenix?

Phoenix is part of Durban and I believe the whole of Durban should be a free settlement area. That is my answer to the hon member. If the hon member wants to fragment dormitory areas and non-viable areas by putting further economic pressures on people of colour, I say to him here and now that it is not on. I suggest that the hon MEC in charge of local government should hold an indaba of all the local authorities in Natal and encourage them to opt for free settlement area status, and I urge him to do so. I invite the hon MEC to do that because it will be a positive contribution to the process of reform.

I would also like to tell the hon MEC that by talking to the Coloured and Indian local affairs committees—whoever has requested him to do so is immaterial—separately about delegated powers he is creating the impression that the Natal Local Affairs Committee, which is representative of both Coloureds and Indians, is being developed along ethnic lines. That type of exercise would be more profitable for the South Africa and the Natal of tomorrow if he spoke to White together with Indian and Coloured local authorities about the benefits that could flow from the implementation of the Free Settlement Areas Act within their areas of jurisdiction. That is the whole local authority area, not little group area pockets as some people suggest.

I want to warn all hon MECs here and now that the question of delegated powers and the assumption of self-delegated powers will eventually mean that these areas will be forced into becoming more non-viable, impoverished little local authorities.

Nonsense! [Interjections.]

I have more experience than the person who says nonsense. [Interjections.]

I now want to deal with another aspect. My appeal at local government level is that the inevitable must happen with good grace and that is a non-racial local authority.

I want to deal with the question of medical services. We learnt during our discussions yesterday that there are many areas that require medical practitioners to alleviate the problems at many provincial hospitals. What is alarming in regard to what I heard yesterday is that there are certain areas where doctors can practise in hospitals whilst they are not permitted to practise as medical practitioners in the Natal and other Natal provincial hospitals. I cite Dr Govender as an example who applied for a vacancy in Stanger. His application was not acceptable because the Medical and Dental Council would not confirm such an appointment. However, the same doctor can be employed on a full-time basis in Qwaqwa or by the KwaZulu Government and he has taken up a post in the Qwaqwa. I want to say to the Medical and Dental Council that this again shows double standards. We accuse the authority, the Government and other structures of indulging in double standards but a professional body like the Medical and Dental Council should desist from engaging in these types of double standards. I believe that there is a shortage of doctors to take up appointments in our hospitals run by the province and that the Medical and Dental Council ought to co-operate and make it possible for these doctors to practise at these hospitals.

I want to speak on something of a more parochial nature. I was rather disturbed when I received a letter from the chairman of the Stanger Hospital Board. For record purposes I will read this letter. It states:

I want to repeat that only ten medical posts are filled. It continues:

It is signed by Mr A Bozas who is the previous provincial councillor.

I had the opportunity of submitting this to the hon the Administrator. I am now making an appeal for his intervention in this particular regard and I trust that he will do something about this. I was rather disappointed yesterday, when we were deliberating, that a critical issue of this nature which was brought to the attention of the hon MEC was not dealt with effectively. With respect, I would like to say that I have an answer. Lest anybody be mistaken, this is Parliament. It is an extended public committee of Parliament and if anybody gives false information in Parliament, it is a very serious contravention of parliamentary procedures. In this particular regard I want to refer to a question which I raised. The question I raised was what the total number of medical posts still vacant was and which were the hospitals and institutions where such vacancies existed. A whole list of names was given, but Stanger is not mentioned anywhere. Is it any wonder that we have such a lack of essential services? It is apparent that information is not collected correctly. There is a breakdown somewhere along the line. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, at the outset I would like to extend the congratulations of my party to the hon member for South Coast on his assuming the chairmanship of the committee and for the way in which he ran it yesterday under fairly trying conditions. I would also like to extend to the hon member for Umlazi our hope that, in the committee chairmanship he has now taken up, he will have a quieter time than he did when he started the committee in Natal under fairly trying conditions several years ago.

In addition I am certain I express the feelings of the entire Chamber when I thank the hon the Administrator for his hospitality yesterday and for his promise to be hospitable to us today at lunch time.

I would finally like to extend a word of thanks to the officials. The comprehensive answers that they have given in a very short space of time match the comprehensive questions that we forwarded to them in an equally short space of time. I trust that something can be done about the system under which both sides have to work under extreme pressure.

I would like to take an initial look at the structure of government in Natal in picking up on one or two of the points the hon member for Stanger mentioned. We are in a position where at the moment, and quite correctly, we are in a transition stage. The provincial councils were scrapped. The Provincial Council of Natal which had a long and very good history was scrapped. The elected MPCs became, with the scrapping of the provincial councils, functus officio—that is, they lost their jobs, and in their place came a number of nominated members of the Executive Committee. I make the point that they are nominated and not elected.

We also noted at the time and continue to note that, unlike other provinces, there is no Black African member on the Executive Committee. We have on a number of occasions asked the reason why and were given a very poor reply. Last year’s reply was certainly so. It is a question that we must take up once again since the next matter I am going to raise is particularly concerned with the African community of Natal, which is the question of squatters. I think it is highly undesirable that there is an Executive Committee that is running the affairs of Black persons in this province when there is no Black person on the Executive Committee.

I also believe that the structure of that nonelected Executive Committee, together with the structure of the joint committee of Parliament which we represent here in extended form, are transitional structures. We have noted that the hon Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning said earlier last year that the provincial councils may well have to be recreated in an obviously different form to the form they had when they were scrapped, which was a pure White form. We are interested to know from the members of the NP serving on this committee what intentions that party has for the structure of government in Natal. We have taken note that over the past three years a number of changes have been made in both the form of the joint committee itself and the fact that we are sitting here today in expanded form.

We also take note that the members of the Executive Committee have established links with KwaZulu themselves through the creation of the Joint Executive Authority. In the answers given to us we also have a list of the functions and activities that the JEA carried out during the past year.

We certainly do not believe that this represents either the final form or even the most desirable form of government for Natal, both at executive and at legislative level. We therefore cordially invite the members of the NP to respond to this by at least expanding on how they see the structure of the government of Natal in the future.

Further, picking up the point of the hon member for Stanger on the question of the Indaba, a question was posed as to whether the Executive Committee had responded to the proposals of the Indaba. The reply that he received was interesting. The reply reads as follows:

Quite correct!

Quite correct! We have had that response and I am pleased that the hon member for Umhlanga now says that it is quite correct. That response by the Executive Committee was given in November 1987. It has only been approximately 18 months and the hon the Minister has not yet released that comment. It has only been in the past month that the hon the Minister has met with the chairman of the Indaba to discuss the Indaba. We would certainly be interested to know whether the response of the Executive Committee was unanimous, what that response was and who that response purports to represent.

I must, however, correct the hon member for Stanger with regard to one of the remarks that he made concerning the initiation of a committee between the government of KwaZulu and the representatives of the South African Government. The hon member for Stanger appeared to infer that this was to handle the Indaba proposals. That is clearly not so. It is in fact a committee to be appointed to handle the obstacles that appear to have arisen in the talks between the government of KwaZulu and the South African Government.

An obstacles committee!

Yes, it is truly an obstacles committee. I think that the overall point we come to is a great big question mark, both over this committee, over the MECs in their present form and over the structure of government in Natal. The hon member for Umhlanga says we must be patient. One must echo the cry of so many South Africans: “Oh, for how long must we be patient?”

Do not talk on their behalf!

I do not purport to! I talk on my own behalf and on behalf of those people I represent. [Interjections.]

Do you want to introduce it again in the election?

I move now to the point that was picked up in evidence yesterday in the answers given concerning the position of squatters and informal settlements in the area of Natal and KwaZulu. It is truly a massive problem. It is a problem, however, which I believe also represents an opportunity for this area. It is a situation in which funding is clearly inadequate. It is not inadequate because of the Executive Committee, but it is inadequate because there is a lack of appreciation, if I may say so, at central Government level of the enormity of the problem in the Natal area. I would like to quote from an article in a recent issue of the magazine Frontline, which dealt with the squatter problem. It concerns settlement and reads as follows:

That is the situation. [Interjections.]

Who said that?

The 1,7 million squatters in informal settlements in the Greater Durban area and their growth have been compared to the growth of Mexico City, and these areas have been called the two fastest growing municipal urban areas on the surface of this globe. If there are 1,7 million squatters in the Greater Durban area then certainly in Natal as a whole the figure must run to well over 2,5 million. It is probably closer to 3 million.

I believe it is important to view Natal as a whole. I believe it is very important that the various departments, of which this Administration is only one, that are responsible for aiding and assisting the informal settlements across the face of Natal meet regularly and continually. They should also be properly funded to resolve this situation. I am well aware that they do meet and that there is a committee to view these problems and on which these departments serve, but I believe that we now need to face the nub issue of funding.

What is the role of this provincial administration? Here I wish to quote from their annual report. Under the heading of “Black Urbanisation” they say:

I believe, admirable as these intentions may seem, they also highlight the nub of the problem, namely a lack of finance and manpower.

Yesterday we were informed that the responsibility of the Natal Provincial Administration for informal and squatter settlements excludes certain areas. It excludes, fairly obviously, KwaZulu; Trust lands, which are the responsibility of the Department of Development Aid; development land areas, the so-called declared development areas; and the three group areas such as White, Indian and Coloured group areas. In the remaining area over which the provincial administration does have control, the official figure that was given to us yesterday numbers some 232 000 people in 141 communities. The question was also posed as to how many of these people were on private land and were thus illegally squatting or illegally in informal settlements. Unfortunately, there is no possible answer to this at this stage as no survey has been undertaken. It is those communities that I now wish to address in particular, namely the communities that are settled on private land.

During the past year or two attention in Natal has been focused on the plight of these communities that for one reason or another find themselves displaced from the land on which they originally settled. The events surrounding the eviction of the squatters from Enzomusha and the present situation regarding the community living at Luganda in the Dassenhoek Valley near Pinetown are most unsatisfactory. The people of Enzomusha were living on private land in a so-called Coloured group area which is the responsibility of the House of Representatives. The Luganda community find themselves on private land in an Indian group area which is the responsibility of the House of Delegates. In both cases the Natal Provincial Administration had a role to play and I think they played a good role.

Let us, however, detail the situation. In the Luganda case we have a group which does not want to move, clashing with the effect of the Group Areas Act, the policy of orderly urbanisation and the legal rights of the private landowners. In Luganda part of the community has been living on the land for some time. Certainly 70 years is clear evidence of that.

Possibly their parents and grandparents were there in the 1850s. There is certainly oral evidence of that. In addition, they have been joined by persons fleeing from violence in the vicinity of the Shongweni Valley and so the community has expanded. However, by no means can they be labelled squatters in the conventional sense, or as people who have merely moved onto private land without constraint.

The most recent landowner, a Mr C N Soni who owns the Manvar Farms Company, commenced selling the land to a development utility company, Comhousing, in 1987. Almost immediately a negotiating agent was in contact with the Natal Provincial Administration in order to put the problem to them and to attempt to resettle the community. That was in February 1987. Apparently this was to little effect. Apparently there was no response. I wish to know whether the NPA received such contact and whether they responded in any way. In any event, why at that stage were negotiations not commenced for the acquisition of alternate land and its development? It raises here the entire question of the State’s responsibility, both at central and provincial level, for such communities on private land.

We have had a clear statement from the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning that forced removals by the State do not take place. I understand that such a policy has also been adopted by this Administration. That is good, but the problem arises when it is this Administration’s responsibility for planning and upgrading communities when they have little or no funds to do such work. We see in Vote 6, subsection Q, that they have a sum of just over R2 million, R2 098 000, for all the squatters and all the settlements in Natal. Last year the figure was about R1 000, a purely nominal sum. One is pleased that there has been an increase, but it will not and cannot go far—and the Administration admits this—to aid the more than 200 000 people who find themselves dependent on such funds, even when the spirit of the officials shows that they are quite clearly willing to upgrade communities.

I want to finish the story of Luganda. In November 1987 Manvar Farms obtained a court order for the eviction of the people from their land. In March 1988 the community drafted a comprehensive petition to the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning, appealing that they be allowed to settle in a part of Luganda. Nothing further was done. The petition was referred to the hon the Deputy Minister. In August 1988 the hon the Deputy Minister replied to the community leaders, informing them that this was a matter for the provincial administration and suggesting that they contact the named official in the NPA. At this stage the hon the Deputy Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning did not even mention the House of Delegates. Unfortunately, again nothing happened.

Shortly before Christmas 1988 the bulldozers went in and a number of structures—30 or 35—were demolished. People can call them structures, but they were homes to the people living in them. This, unfortunately, was accompanied by some confrontations and violence was shown by both sides. Firing took place by a private security company hired by the owners and stones were thrown by those threatened with the demolition of their homes. However, a court order was obtained just before Christmas to stop the demolition.

During January, February and March this year the NPA became involved in the whole matter with ongoing discussions between the community, the new landowners, Comhousing, and the NPA. Land was acquired with the co-operation of the Administration: House of Delegates. Unfortunately no development of that land has taken place. There is no water, no roads, no sewerage and no pegging of sites to any great extent. Unfortunately, once again time ran out for the community. Last Tuesday Comhousing sent in the bulldozers again. Fourteen homes were demolished, even though the land to which these people were supposed to move was not ready. No conclusion had been reached regarding a number of outstanding questions posed by the community.

Between Wednesday and Friday of last week several contacts were made between the NPA and Comhousing. The Administration made it quite clear that they wished to have nothing to do with the evictions and demolitions and that the land at Savannah Park was not ready. They made it clear publicly. At the same time Comhousing stated that they could delay no longer. However, by Friday Comhousing fortunately had changed their position and indicated that they were prepared to offer a month’s delay until 1 May this year on several conditions, amongst which were that the NPA would find and peg suitable land, provide appropriate roads and sewerage, and finally that they, the NPA, would relocate people. I understand that the latter condition was not acceptable to the NPA. That is where we rest today.

I believe this province deserves a clear explanation of the position of the NPA. I believe we need to be told whether emergency money, as it were, is available to do development of this nature. We need to be publicly informed about the extent of the problem. I understand that the Administration is contacted regularly by private landowners who say that they want people off their land. We need to know about that. This is the second such highly publicised instance to occur in six months.

I made a point about publicity. I certainly have not contacted the Press in connection with Luganda at all, but I want the Administration to understand that there is a very active community network linked to the media. Certainly by the time the demolitions commenced on Wednesday morning, there were overseas television crews present. There were media from both locally and overseas. By Thursday the SABC’s TV2 itself was present. In neither case … [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, like the hon member for Pinetown, I would also like to thank the Administrator and the Executive Committee on behalf of the LP of South Africa for their hospitality during our stay in Pietermaritzburg. We feel happy to be home for a change. Cape Town can never compare with Natal and certainly not with Pietermaritzburg. I also wish to congratulate the hon member for South Coast on his appointment as chairman of the joint committee. The vice-chairman—the hon member for Umlazi—is a person well known to many of us. We certainly hope, as the hon member for Pinetown said, that he will feel more comfortable in his chairmanship in the other committee.

The hon member for South Coast discussed the history and significance of the building in which the Natal debates are taking place. There is no denying the fact that this edifice is quite an overwhelming and a very significant one. We certainly do appreciate its architectural aspects. We also recognise the Doric, Ionian and Corinthian features in the architecture. We understand the uniqueness of the building, its significance and the fact that it has been available for almost 100 years. However, while it is certainly a privilege to debate in such an illustrious building, the only factor which detracts from its significance and our presence here today, is that our presence from the outset was effectively denied us, because it was reserved only for Whites. Hon members will therefore understand that we cannot feel as enthusiastic about the significance of the structure, the importance of the building and the uniqueness of its composition as did the hon member for South Coast. It is not that we would not like to—we would like to, but it does not come naturally to us. It would be jingoistic of me to wax enthusiastic about the importance and beauty of the structure when people of colour have only just arrived in this building. Of course, we expect and await the arrival of the rest of the people of colour in this very same building. Hopefully it will not take too long.

I want to come to a very, very important principle which is reflected in the following statement. I often hear from well-meaning people, usually White people with very good intentions, that only White people pay taxes and that White people should therefore have the benefits in this country.

This is quite often said, in different ways and in different statements. Of course, this very same principle reflected in the statement is carried by certain political parties to such an extreme that they burn their fingers. The problem that we have with such arguments is that it cannot be denied—we say this without anger, without bitterness; it is a statement of fact—that a sector of the South African population has enjoyed undue privilege for as long as we can recall. The significantly larger majority of the populace has had to fork out the price of the bill for that privilege which was enjoyed. In other words the privilege that has been enjoyed and still is being enjoyed by White people has been gained at the expense of the rest of the total South African population. We say it—I repeat this—without anger, without animosity, without hostility. I say it as a statement of fact in order that we may analyse the principle and see what is wrong with the whole reasoning of “Wit geld” and “Wit eiendom”. What are we to do about it? I say that the whole disposition of people must be changed and it cannot be changed from outside. I say that it will have to change from inside. I say that people themselves, besides all the constitutional changes taking place, besides all the new faces one sees arriving on the scene, have to change. Those things are transitory. What is inside people has to change. Their attitude towards one another has to change as South African towards South African. Let us stop lying to each other. Let us stop trying to delude each other that one wishes the other well. The selfishness in people has to be removed.

I said that South Africa is undergoing change, and I like to believe that. I hope I am not wrong. Some people believe that there is no change taking place anyway. We see these changes in constitutional structures and the very fact that we are here at the moment—multi-coloured—in the provincial council debate, is living proof that certain changes are taking place. Constitutional changes are taking place. I am not for a moment saying that these constitutional changes are adequate. I am not even prepared to comment on the speed of reform or change in this country. That is to me at the moment, for the purposes of my argument, a little irrelevant. Accept for the purposes of my argument that some sort of constitutional change is taking place.

In that case we are now confronted with the real problems of South Africa. Today, in 1989, there are people in this country who do not have the benefit of adequate shelter. There are people in this country, millions of people, who are thirsting for education, and who cannot be provided with the basic education required. I say this not in comparison with any other country. I do not care about education in another country. Education in South Africa is relevant to me at this moment for the purposes of my argument. The fact is that there are people who do not receive adequate education. There are people who need homes. What their colour is is another matter. How we go about solving the problem is another matter. The fact is that South Africa, and particularly Natal, both have housing problems. We have to address the problem.

The country has to feed its millions. Natal or Natal/KwaZulu—call it by any constitutional name we want to—has to feed its own millions. However, this region has millions of people who need to be fed. That is the kind of problem we need to address. We need adequate provision for the sick and the elderly. We need the sick and aged. We have to attend to those people.

Those are general problems that we have. Can we still afford the luxury of discriminating between people? Can we still afford the luxury of having various constitutional structures for various racial groups or ethnic groups? What is it with us in this country? Are we so suicidal that we cannot but adhere to the whole concept of group identity? Why cannot we recognise that people are individuals, individuals with their own qualities, their own capabilities and certainly their own limitations? However, they are individual people. Can we not move away from the whole preconceived idea that people cannot survive other than in a group? We are not sheep, we are human beings. We are not more inclined towards the herd instinct than animals. Surely this needs to be promoted in the country.

The hon the Administrator has indicated that there is a paucity of funds. This is no secret. We often hear comments about the Minister of Finance. Jokes are being made. One does not hear Mike Schutte jokes any more, it is all AVB, it is all Barend. Today Barend is a household name because everybody feels him in his back pocket, or what is left of the back pocket.

Besides the paucity of funds, there is the whole matter of manpower, which has been highlighted by so many people already. There is a lack of manpower. Training is required, regardless of colour. The country has potential. Let us unlock the potential of the country. Let us forget this obsession with the colour of the person, let us look at the colour of money. In this situation the rand is almost worthless. Gold has dropped in value and does not seem to want to recover and all this has caused a situation in the country where we have to look at what is basically needed in the country. Anything superfluous has to be gotten rid of. But what do we do in Natal? We exacerbate this emergency situation by adhering to silly little things. The phrase “with due respect to cultural and ethnic wishes” is often used in Government today. It is heard at the first, second and third tier level. What is this nonsense? What is the primary requirement of a man who is ailing, a man who needs to be hospitalised? Hospitalisation is the requirement. Treatment of the person is the second requirement. Why do we first try to respect this ailing man’s cultural and ethnic wishes before we come to the nitty-gritty of the situation? [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I would like to take the opportunity at this stage to congratulate the hon member for South Coast on his promotion to chairman of the joint committee for the province of Natal. We on this side have known our colleague as a very efficient and dedicated colleague and we have no doubt that he will make a success of this position. I speak on behalf of all my colleagues on the NP side when I wish him everything of the best in his new position. I also speak specifically on behalf of the hon member for Umlazi, the previous chairman, who would have liked at this stage to congratulate the hon member for South Coast, but who, due to a throat ailment, is unable to speak at present.

If the Chairman will allow me a short party-political interlude, following on the speech of the hon member for Pinetown, I must say it is a very sad occasion today, but, I believe, a happy occasion for Natal. This will be the last occasion in Natal where Natal will be able to hear and see the activities and the actions of the PFP. It is sad to see a party laid to rest and the single reason for the party’s being laid to rest is that the leaders in that party lost confidence in that party because of the party’s very left-wing image. However, I do not hold out much hope for the newly-formed Democratic Party, because the PFP abandoned itself due to its image problem and then it duly and promptly takes the ultra-left wing into its midst. As was recently pointed out, Wynand does not like Denis, Denis does not like the PFP. the PFP does not like Van, and Van does not like Parliament, but they are all a very happy group. They say that the Democratic Party is a marriage of hearts and minds. I would submit that it is only a shotgun marriage, with some major financial institutions holding the shotgun. They also have major leadership problems, but I would like to appeal to the members of this party in Natal not to keep Natal in suspense. Let us have the leader of the Democratic Party of Natal as soon as possible.

Poovalingam!

I would not like to place any bets. It could either be the hon member for Pinetown, Durban Central or possibly Berea. Please do not keep us in suspense.

I would like to refer to two matters in this speech. The first is a very important matter in my constituency, which I also dealt with in the last meeting last year. This is the sound pollution on the N3 down Town Hill, and the other matter is the activities of the JEA. As I have indicated I dealt with this matter—the sound pollution down the N3—at length during our last meeting last year. I called for a public enquiry into the problem, and I am grateful to report today that an investigation was in fact instituted and recently completed by the SABS. I must thank the hon the Administrator, the hon MEC Mr Volker, and also Mr Ray Smith, the Executive Director: Roads for the role they played in instituting this investigation.

The report was made available to me. It confirms the worst fears of the people in the area. In short, it reports that the intensity of the noise along this particular route is four times higher than would be legally allowed or tolerated inside city limits. The findings of the SABS have not solved, but have accentuated the seriousness of the problem, and this report should, in my submission, encourage all reasonable parties to solve this problem as a matter of urgency.

One of the problems is the lack of legislation to prosecute offenders. It is a sad situation. When a man with a buzz-bike creates a lot of noise on a Sunday afternoon in his backyard, he can be prosecuted, but if he makes a four times greater noise on a national road, he cannot be effectively prosecuted. I believe this matter will be attended to soon by amendments to the Road Traffic Act and also through the Environment Conservation Bill which will hopefully be before Parliament soon. The policing of the situation, however, is only one side of the situation. I also believe that one must look at the actual situation and investigate ways in which the noise could be dampened. That is the type of action taken worldwide. I believe that if ever there was a good case for sound barriers in South Africa it is along this very route, and this must be investigated, especially now that major road building projects for this particular section are also proposed.

The matter of vegetation, especially trees, should also be looked into. This is the case worldwide, but we need experts to advise us on these aspects and I appeal to the Administration to assist us in this regard and to come forward with funds when they are called upon for assistance.

I would also like to refer to the very important activities of the Joint Executive Authority, and I must say I am more than impressed by the activities of the JEA and what they have done in the very short time at their disposal. In this regard I refer to page 52 of the dossier of replies to written questions furnished to the joint committee. I want to refer to just a number of aspects which they have have dealt with which are listed in reply to a question by the PFP:

1. (a) the implementation of the joint purchasing of pharmaceutical products by the NPA Hospital Services and the Kwazulu Department of Health;
2. (b) the commissioning of Prince Mshiyeni Hospital, Umlazi;
3. (c) the joint recruiting of doctors for the NPA and Kwazulu;
4. (e) problems arising from rapid urbanisation;
5. (f) the utilization of assistance offered by the Durban City Council towards the problems arising from such urbanization;
6. (i) regional services councils;
7. (j) the development of a library service in Kwazulu.

These are only a number of the matters listed on page 52. There are, however, a number of other matters which I feel should be given priority in the dealings of the JEA. I have also mentioned this in a previous speech, but I believe the proper development and utilisation of our major natural asset in Natal, namely the Tugela, should be high on this list of priorities. Urbanisation around Durban, as has already been mentioned, is accepted to be the highest in the southern hemisphere, and one of the solutions to this problem is to create another growth point. I believe it should be at the Tugela River. This could reduce the pressure on the Durban area.

There are major projects afoot to create housing, but I believe that very little is being done to create employment opportunities, and this project could be a major contributor to alleviating this problem. I also believe that the country owes Natal and KwaZulu a major capital project, and this is something the JEA should consider. When one looks at the benefit that would accrue from the capital invested, then I doubt whether one will be able to find a more economically viable project in South Africa, and it is for these reasons that I feel very strongly that the JEA should investigate a project which includes dams, canals, irrigation systems and hydro-electric power along the Tugela.

Another aspect I would like to deal with which I feel the JEA should deal with, is the question of the landownership system in KwaZulu—the system whereby the land in KwaZulu is in communal or tribal ownership and whereby citizens of KwaZulu cannot obtain freehold land rights in KwaZulu. I believe this is not only impeding growth in KwaZulu but also in our region as a whole. This limitation encourages urbanisation and the lack of proper development in the rural areas. I believe there is a great need for Black people to obtain land freehold, and there will be no prosperity and no development in KwaZulu without freehold land rights being given to Blacks. I fear that if KwaZulu does not meet the needs in this respect it will go the same route as the majority of nations in Africa, namely the route of economic stagnation and instability.

Mr Chairman, there is no instant solution to the problem. One cannot expect a traditional land tenure system to disappear overnight. That is unhealthy and unacceptable. There must be a marriage between the traditional system and the freehold system, and there must be incentives to the tribal authorities and the chiefs to sell off their land to their own people. This could be done by giving the tribal authorities and the chiefs a percentage of the purchasing price and also by allowing the tribal authorities to levy an annual tax.

Mr Chairman, I cannot close my speech without expressing my sincere appreciation to the hon the Administrator, the MECs, the heads of departments and every official of the Administration for the very courteous and efficient manner in which my representations have been dealt with over the past year.

*I particularly want to pay tribute to Mr Japie Venter who will be retiring shortly as Deputy Provincial Secretary. I want to thank him sincerely for his faithful service over many years and wish him a long and happy retirement.

Mr Chairman, it is the first time that I am speaking in this Chamber because during the previous provincial debate I was in the Transvaal. I want to grasp this opportunity to pay tribute to the hon the Administrator of Natal and I want to make it abundantly clear that Natal is extremely fortunate to have a person of the calibre of our hon Administrator, not because both of us come from Eshowe, but because of the contribution he has made. His contribution will remain indelible, especially with regard to the devastating floods during 1987 and 1988 which ruined and wrecked the entire community of Natal. He will therefore go down in history as a man committed and dedicated to the cause of the welfare of the people as a whole, and a man who had the foresight and vision, together with his colleagues, to have been able to set the machinery in motion on the spur of the moment. I personally want to thank the hon the Administrator and his entire Administration. On behalf of the members of the House of Delegates, I also want to thank the hon the Administrator, the Executive Committee and the Administration for the hospitality of the lunch provided yesterday.

Mr Chairman, I want to refer immediately to a matter raised by the previous speaker, the hon member for Pietermaritzburg North. He raised one of the most important issues in Natal, namely the Tugela Basin. Sir, you are no doubt aware—Natalians even more so—of the Thorington-Smith Report on the Tugela Basin which was published many years ago. So much is spoken about Natal nowadays. It is a very, very important province in South Africa, interlinked with the KwaZulu-Natal Indaba, together with the various other aspects, but the greatest emphasis must be laid on the comments made by the previous speaker. He made it clear that we must not play politics on a theoretical basis but that we must address the issue in a practical manner. When one looks at Natal in a practical way—when one looks at the development of regions there and the development on the coast—one cannot divorce oneself from the importance of the development of the Tugela Basin. The Tugela Basin has the resources—the coal, water, electrical, labour and land resources—and I therefore want to appeal to this Administration to consider seriously the possibility of developing the region in the perhaps not too distant future, because the progress with regard to the development of the Tugela Basin would equally contribute to the KwaZulu-Natal Indaba’s vision for Natal.

Having known the hon member for South Coast for some time, I also want to add my congratulations to him. He is a very able person. I am pleased that he spoke about constitutional reforms in South Africa. No constitutional reforms in any part of the world will ever be successful in the absence of tolerance—the term he used—and in the absence of honesty and loyalty to the cause and mission we are pursuing. I cannot agree with him more that tolerance is required and, naturally, with that tolerance we are gaining momentum and I am satisfied that with the momentum we are gaining within a short period that, perhaps, we will be able to face a South Africa which we would all like to see.

He touched on the issue of tourism. In the field of tourism South Africa is regarded as a world in one country. Tourism must be advanced and encouraged, and it is for people from throughout the world to come to South Africa and see for themselves what this country offers and what our problems are and how South Africa is handling its problems between a cross-section of South Africans.

Mr Chairman, the hon member for South Coast stole the march on me this morning. I intended laying very strong emphasis on the juristic votes. With regard to these votes I firstly want to compliment the Director of Local Government and the Executive Committee, in particular Mr Peter Miller. In evaluating any administration, what is admirable in any given set of circumstances is an administration taking up the cudgels and handling a matter in accordance with the circumstances, notwithstanding that which is written in an ordinance. With regard to the elections in Tongaat, Tongaat has the only “one town” board in South Africa. We were confronted with problems and controversies, but when the machinery was set in motion in cooperation with the Executive Committee the question of juristic votes arose, together with various other implications.

However, as a result of consultations and consents the controversies with which we were confronted, were resolved, and I want to place on record our appreciation for the co-operation we have received, especially with regard to the principle of juristic votes. I understand that Tongaat is pleased with the result that has been achieved. However, looking back on the question of a juristic vote, which is not a natural vote, I would perhaps like to appeal through you, Mr Chairman, to the Executive Committee that this particular aspect, as highlighted by the hon member for South Coast, be looked at in a different light. One can have ordinances and ideals, and one can be a theoretical master or a pundit, but what eventually counts is the practical aspect, and also the economic factor, which is one of the most important factors. The juristic vote will therefore play an important role, more so with the possible introduction of the RSC, where the industrialists are now going to be subject to levies and the juristic vote must be given serious consideration with regard to a ceiling. What would be the value of a juristic vote? Would it mean R20 000, R40 000 or R100 000? These aspects must be considered, Mr Chairman, and I am certain that the Executive Committee, with their experience, will apply their minds in this regard.

The hon member for Stanger made some comments about nominated members in the Executive Committee. I want to remind him that there has to be a point of departure in any country. The SA Indian Council was a nominated council. That body was a point of departure. Today one has democratically elected Indians in Parliament. The re-establishing of infrastructures in any part of the world requires that there has to be a point of departure, and hence we have nominated members in the Executive Committee. Let us, however, accept the de facto situation. What is the de facto situation, and what are the implications involved? No person can be an expert in any field overnight. The White community in South Africa has been represented in Parliament for more than 80 years. Throwing a community into the deep end of the pool without any expertise or training is a problem which we must consider, Mr Chairman, and I am satisfied that every effort is being made to prevent this, even with regard to the nominated members on the Executive Committee who are appointed on a basis of consultation, and I am sure that with the passage of time more progress will be made.

With regard to the RSC, I also note that the hon member spoke about the delay in the establishment of RSCs. Being a practical person and notwithstanding my political ideals, I will again in this case support any measure that contributes to a better quality of life and, to an even greater extent, a measure that is going to help the underprivileged community in any part of the world. The RSC and the intentions of the RSC must play an important role in Natal, and I want to make an ardent appeal to all the parties involved in the exercise to seriously consider the RSC and not to let our ideals perhaps further impoverish the downtrodden in South Africa.

I liked the phrase which the hon member for Pinetown used this morning—“obstacles to talks”. If we could apply our minds to removing the obstacles to talk, notwithstanding one’s affiliations and notwithstanding one’s colour or creed, I am quite sure that solutions would be found overnight.

The hon member also spoke about the informal sector. In this case we again have the squatter situation in South Africa. The country does not seem to be in a position to house every person and therefore we are naturally involved with the informal sector. If we are not able to give attention to the informal sector and improve their quality of life, Mr Chairman, we are going to be faced with further problems.

Mr Chairman, I now turn to other aspects. The Development and Services Board in Natal is similar to the Divisional Council in the Cape Province and the Board for the Development of Peri-Urban Areas in the Transvaal, but the circumstances in the different provinces vary. In Natal the Development and Services Board is an important component of development in that it caters for the cross-section of the people. An own affairs administration can only administer matters related to own affairs, but the Development and Services Board, which falls within the ambit of general affairs, caters for all sections of the people. There are poverty-stricken areas in Natal, and if any body can help to alleviate the problem it is the Development and Services Board. I have fought vigorously for the retention of the Development and Services Board but I am not trying to state here that the Development and Services Board is functioning efficiently. That is another aspect which has to be examined, but in principle the retention of the Development and Services Board is of paramount importance to the province of Natal.

Another aspect is the question of consultation. Let us consider these exercises. I would like to have seen members of Nalac present at this meeting. I am not talking about who serves in which organisations, but the time has come in this country that we must be able to establish machineries. The province, together with central Government, must be able to fall back on institutions which are representative of communities. Temcon in the Transvaal is provided for in the ordinance, and I want to make an appeal through you, Mr Chairman, that perhaps consideration be given to making provision for Nalac—the Natal Association of Local Affairs Committees—in the ordinance, which will give them the required assistance in the sense that they will become established at a certain level so that as and when their advice and services are required, we can consult them instead of running to interview the members of the LACs and Management Committees.

I am pleased that the hon the Administrator, at some stage, made a comment about the voters’ roll. As you will appreciate, Mr Chairman, I again want to make an appeal in this regard since we were faced with the problem that the voters’ roll was totally obsolete, and perhaps you also know that some of those who had voted are in fact not even alive. [Interjections.] Let us therefore get the machinery set so that in the event of an election overnight we have the machinery in order. This also applies to the prior votes, a subject to be discussed at various other levels, and a matter which must also be taken cognizance of by the province. There is also another practical aspect: I found in the last election that, simply because of a simple error in the completion of an application form, an important and useful candidate is turned down or the matter goes to court. After all, Mr Chairman, when a person comes forward to participate in an exercise he is a public-spirited person. Most probably he is the best person for the job, but simply because he has made a simple error on an application form he is turned down. I would appreciate it if a new formula could be used which is not subject to the judiciary, but to the hon the Administrator and his Administration.

I know much has been spoken about the devolution of powers. I do not want to discuss that now.

There is one more aspect I want to refer to. As far as clinics are concerned, I want to highlight one particular area which happens to fall within the constituency of the hon member for Stanger, namely the Tugela area. It is an area which falls within the ambit of the Development and Services Board—a growing area which is on the south bank of the Tugela River. In this area one has a situation where 20% of the rates is being used for the maintenance of the clinic in the area, and approximately 63% of the people who are attended to at that clinic do not belong to the Indian community. I do not want to be misunderstood; we are here to provide services to all the needy, but when 20% of the rates of a poor community—like the community in the Tugela area—has to go towards the maintenance of a clinic, I think this is an issue that requires very, very close consideration. This phenomenon on the south bank of the Tugela River has to be sorted out, Mr Chairman. Again in this case one has the province, the own affairs, and the general affairs, and if the co-ordination between all these machineries is not satisfactory, the silent community is eventually subject to suffering.

With these words, Mr Chairman, I want to thank the Administration. I hope that our hon Administrator will remain in office for many more years, and, furthermore, that this provincial debate in Natal will improve English.

Mr Chairman, at the outset I would like to associate myself with the remarks made by the previous speaker about the fact that a large amount of money is being spent on flood relief.

*Obviously we in the CP were very upset about the events at the time of the flood, and we are grateful that so much money is being spent on dealing with this matter. We trust that the damage that was caused has been adequately repaired.

With reference to the hon the Administrator’s speech, I should like to make the following comment, viz that I wonder whether he cannot perhaps advise the hon the Minister of Finance on how to draw up a budget, because if he can make provision for inflation and other incidental expenditure with the aid of a percentage of only 3,7%, I think it is an exceptional achievement, and something the hon the Minister of Finance should consider as well.

†I also want to refer to what the previous speaker has just said about the point of departure, and I will deal with the matter in greater detail later in my speech. He argues that the point of departure is the situation we have at this very moment and that we must realize that an evolutionary process is under way. I just want to remind him that the point of departure actually was a democratically elected Provincial Council for at least the Whites. We are therefore now departing from a point further back from the original point of departure. [Interjections.]

*I also want to congratulate the hon member for South Coast on his appointment as chairman of this joint committee. I think he is a capable member, and he is one of the Englishmen with whom I get on quite well. There are quite a few Englishmen with whom I get on quite well, and he is one of the ones for whom I have great appreciation.

†The hon member for Pietermaritzburg North—I see he is not here at the moment—mentioned the fact that Malan does not like Dr Worrall and that Dr Worrall does not like Dr de Beer, but he did not tell us whether F W loves Brother Wimpie. Perhaps he can enlighten us on that matter. [Interjections.]

*Sir, once again I should just like to …

What about E T?

… place on record the complete futility of extended public committees on provincial affairs in provincial capital cities. The question at the centre of this remains unanswered. We cannot understand why the House of Assembly and the South African Parliament have to disperse to the various capital cities in order ostensibly to extend democracy. Is that an extension of democracy? When we look at the public galleries, for example, we see that there is not much interest in this debate, because this meeting is not the meeting of a democratically constituted body.

†As far as the hon the Administrator is concerned, as far as I know—and as far as he is concerned we have very many differences—there is one thing about which we are completely ad idem, and that is that we believe in democracy. That he can associate himself with a farce like this is beyond my understanding.

*Sir, that is absurd and is a mockery of democracy. Just to show how democracy has extended in the Free State, for example, the joint committee and the Extended Public Committee on Provincial Affairs: Orange Free State were to have convened in Bloemfontein. Democracy was to have been extended to Bloemfontein, but then there was no accommodation available in Bloemfontein as a meeting place for hon members. As a result democracy extended back to Cape Town so that the Free State committee could meet there.

Sir, the Parliament of South Africa is in sitting at this stage, this important stage in the contemporary history of South Africa. Disturbing and alarming actions and military operations are taking place in the north of South West Africa, to the extent that the Government of South Africa has requested a special sitting of the Security Council to discuss the events there and the contempt with which Swapo is treating Resolution 435. But here in South Africa, where the opposition has to request a special sitting of Parliament, a public sitting of Parliament to deliberate on this, Parliament has been disintegrated for three days in its political integration process in order to try to bluff the voters that democracy is being served and extended in this way. Rule 124 (1) of the Standing Rules provides that one can request the discussion of a matter of public interest only on the previous day on which Parliament has sat. There was no problem with Swapo at that stage. In other words, the Parliament of South Africa is sitting all over the country while alarming situations are manifesting themselves in South West Africa. It is a farce, Sir.

What if we had been in recess?

If we had been in recess, we could have asked Parliament to convene in that connection.

How soon?

But Parliament is in session at this stage, and that is the point.

You have no interest in Natal!

Neither the hon the Administrator nor the hon members of the Executive Committee have any responsibility to the voters of Natal. One cannot introduce a motion of no confidence, although one could perhaps reject the budget. Sir, we should like certain matters to be spelt out to us. At this stage, with reference to social matters, we should like to request that the hon the Administrator and the hon members of the Executive Committee set out exactly what their responsibilities are and how they feel about the Kwa-Natal Indaba and the Kwa-Natal Executive Committee. What are their instructions and what interaction is there between them and the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning? Let us hear what is happening in this connection, because on Sunday we read, in a newspaper that supports the Government, strangely enough, that it was not true that the Government had rejected the Kwa-Natal Indaba. The proposals are still on the table. We should like to know what the situation there is. Tell us where the Administrator and the MECs stand with regard to the following Indaba proposals. I am referring to a document on education which states inter alia:

You are a democrat. You should support that.

Yes, I support that, but in separate territories, obviously.

*I continue to quote from the document:

The hon MEC Mr Volker in particular, who still believed in separate development previously, is welcome to inform us on how he feels about these Natal Indaba proposals.

I want to refer to what the hon member for South Coast said about the question that we must stop thinking we are living in a First World country. We must accept that we are living in a Third World country. What a terrible admission for a leading Nationalist to say that, as a result of the NP’s policy of integration in a unitary state, we are becoming a Third World country.

That is not what he said.

That is because you advocate a unitary state. Let me read to you what a learned American said:

During a CP congress in Cape Town, an American woman came to address us. She said the Americans were becoming an untrained people as a result of the integration that was taking place in the American schools. The members of the Executive Committee must tell us where they stand in this connection.

I now come to the beaches. I see that no one has spoken about the beaches yet, but let me just point out something to hon members. The hon member for Berea who is so sociable this morning, must take a look at what The Argus of 29 March says about Markinor’s survey which was done upon the request not of a South African organisation, but of Independent Television News. Sir, do you know what they found? Only 1,7% of the Black respondents were opposed to the Group Areas Act. Do hon members realise that? Do hon members know that only 13,7% of the Black respondents are opposed to so-called petty apartheid? Was this not a scientific survey? Do hon members know what that proves? It proves that the pink liberals are trying to incite Blacks in the street, who are quite happy about a policy that has been in existence in South Africa for 300 years, against a situation which was and is acceptable to everyone.

But now the hon MEC Mr Miller says this fantastic thing:

That is on page 64 of this report. What exactly does it mean? Remember, Sir, I believe that the majority of Natal’s beaches between the high-water mark and land are either areas under White control or White group areas, except where the beaches have been made available mainly to Blacks or Indians. Between the high-water mark, and you can correct me if I am wrong, and the low-water mark, the area is controlled by the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act.

Sir, I have Durban’s regulations in front of me. It is interesting to see how their lawyers are floundering in trying to find out where South Africa stands with reference to beaches.

†Counsel has expressed the opinion that the term bathing, funnily enough, in the context of the beach bylaws, means entering the water in the sea or in a swimming bath or in a paddling pool, and that a person who manifestly has no intention of bathing—in the aforementioned sense—commits no offence by simply being on the beach sand.

*So one can sunbathe there, but one may not swim. That is the situation in which Natal finds itself under NP rule and an appointed Executive Committee. I want to know from the hon members where the NP stands with regard to these beaches. But in the same breath this hon member of the Executive Committee said:

Discrimination in reverse—typically NP—although he is a tame Nationalist.

†It is a distinct and incontrovertible contradiction.

*He explained in a very roundabout way the difference between so-called de jure and de facto circumstances. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, at the outset I would like to endorse the statements made by previous speakers regarding the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee. I would also like to endorse the previous speakers’ statements regarding our reception in Pietermaritzburg and the warmth attached thereto.

Mr Chairman, like the late Dr Martin Luther King I too have a dream that one day my little children will be judged not by the colour of their skin, but rather by the content of their character. That in brief, will be the sum total of my response to the previous speaker.

South Africa, much against the will of some—like the previous speaker—is in the process of constitutional change. The province of Natal, I am proud to say, stands at the forefront of this process. With the dynamic initiative of the KwaZulu-Natal Indaba, South Africa and indeed the rest of the world looks with interest at how we, the country’s political leaders, respond to this initiative. Yesterday’s closed session of the Joint Committee’s deliberations demonstrated cogently that constitutional development at the third tier or local government level cries out for attention and action. Literally volumes have been written and spoken about the status of LACs and community councils in relation to their parent, or as I prefer to call them, master local authorities. Local affairs committees and community councils have since their inception pleaded, agitated and tried to negotiate their way into direct representation on these master local authorities. In the 25 years that this system has been in existence, there has been little or no improvement of their lot. We are told that the co-ordinating council stands as proof of the progress made in this regard. While I would concede that any progress is better than none, this progress must be measured not only against the 25-year period, but also against constitutional development in the global sense in South Africa. The Administrator and Executive can, I firmly believe, play an important role in the regard. I believe the time has arrived—if it is not overdue—that an indaba, as previous speakers have mentioned, comprised of all, or as many of the key players and organizations dealing with last tier or local government affairs should be held as a matter of urgency. In this way the people of Natal can express themselves via a negotiated set of proposals. It is clear to all that efforts by the powers that be have not succeeded and it is time therefore that the people of Natal make their voices heard as one.

It is ironic, Mr Chairman, that the hon member for South Coast and others are pleading for the franchise at local government level to be extended to juristic bodies and persons, while out there a mass of people who also pay taxes and rates are denied what is their inherent right, the right to vote and the right to be voted for on all bodies and at all levels of government. Would that hon member had pleaded instead for the extension of the franchise to all South Africans at all levels of government and decision-making, regardless of race. This I believe would have been a logical plea. One would almost swear that in the eyes of the hon member for South Coast people of colour should not have the franchise.

Mr Chairman, I challenge any hon member in this Committee to give me valid reasons why people of colour should not be directly represented on the councils and on master local authorities.

During yesterday’s deliberations the hon the Administrator appealed to all hon members to give serious attention to the burgeoning squatter and informal settlement community that exists throughout Natal but in particular on Durban’s periphery. Mr Chairman, we want to assure the hon the Administrator that, perhaps with a few exceptions, we share his and his Executive’s deep concern in this regard. I am unable to speak for other hon members, but I personally wish to offer all the help at my disposal, for what it is worth, in order to find solutions to this vexing and serious problem. We must agree with the hon member for Pinetown that money must be found. However, I believe the solution to this problem goes even further. One reads in the draft provincial report of 1987-88 under the heading “Regional Planning” and under the subheading “Planning of the greater Durban metropolitan area”, the following:

Mr Chairman, we would like to know what these problems are and whether the statement which has been prepared will be released. Moreover, I believe it is incumbent on the Executive Committee to expand the consultation and negotiation, such as there is, with all the key players and organizations in the respective sub-regions. This, Mr Chairman, is an important principle and forms the basis of any development initiative, socio-economic or political, and particularly for the people in the squatter and informal settlement communities.

Mr Chairman, we have also heard speakers talk of the Tugela basin and the development thereof. I would like to make another appeal to the Executive Committee and to the hon the Administrator, viz that a development study of Natal in total be undertaken, socio-economically and physically. I fear—I have no problems at all with the development of the Tugela basin, none whatsoever, as any development of this nature is to be welcomed—that we will proceed on a basis of ad hoc development throughout the province. Before this happens I would appeal to the hon the Administrator and his Executive to undertake a development study of Natal in total so that development in the province takes place on a co-ordinated and logical basis.

Mr Chairman, I am pleased to be able to talk to a group which is hopefully concerned with Natal and the affairs of Natal Province, albeit as part of a greater South Africa. I hope therefore that in the next two days we can have a fairly frank discussion as to the future of Natal and how the various groups represented here see the future of Natal.

I certainly would be interested to hear from the governing party, the majority party and the nominated Executive what their thoughts are on the future of the administration of this province. I presume they have thoughts on the subject, or perhaps they are here simply to reflect the views of central Government. For example, one would hope that we would hear from them that, on the basis of the experience which they have had over the past two years, they are making some sort of a positive impact in respect of any discussions which are taking place between the central Government and KwaZulu at the present time. I think all or most of us applauded the initiative of the Joint Executive Authority. I think it has obviously been an interesting and logical experiment in co-operation between two separate authorities, that is the Natal Provincial Executive—a nominated body—and the KwaZulu Government. However, we also know that it is purely an administrative accord and goes no further than that.

This committee here today is seen as the successor, in the eyes of many, to the old provincial council. Despite the many defects in its composition, its method of operation and the fact that we are talking to a nominated Executive, it is argued that it is more representative than the old provincial council was prior to the new Constitution, because that provincial council was comprised only of White representatives. This committee today owes its existence to the Constitution of South Africa. This committee is part of the tricameral Parliament of South Africa, which even now, after four or five years of its operation, has shown itself to be an abject failure, as some of us predicted it would be when it was first introduced and adopted.

The Constitution from which this committee derives its authority is patently defective. It is divisive in its overriding concept of own affairs; it is economically extravagant at a time when South Africa simply cannot afford economic extravagance; it is a constant reminder to the majority group in South Africa of their exclusion from the real legislative process in the country; it is a Constitution which is patently defective; and, of course, with respect, many of those defects apply to this committee as it sits here. I find it unreal that we can sit here deliberating on matters relating to the people of Natal when the majority of the people of Natal are totally unrepresented in this Chamber.

I think it is also unreal that this committee and those of us who are here, meet here on a racially ethnic basis. We meet here not as members of a Natal committee, but as people who come from constituent parts of Parliament—from the House of Representatives, which happens to be the House for the so-called Coloured population of South Africa, from the House of Delegates, which happens to be representative of the so-called Indian population of South Africa, and the House of Assembly, which is for the White population of South Africa. So even when we meet here today, with our limited powers, we are divided on an ethnic basis.

These are fatal impediments in the system under which we are attempting to operate. The reality is that against the background of the real situation in South Africa, at a time when the compelling need is to bring non-racial democracy to all its people, the present system stands out as a major obstacle in that process. I would like to know what are the thoughts of members of this committee in regard to these matters and particularly the members of the Executive Committee and other members of the NP. We have heard of the committee being set up to try to bring about real negotiation between Natal and KwaZulu at Government level. We know, as I have said, of the operation of the JEA.

We even hear talk from the new leader of the NP of the need to devise a drastically different constitution for South Africa. It would be interesting if we could have some sort of insight into how different, and in what respects that constitution is going to be different from the present one. One thing I will say regarding any future constitution for South Africa or any regional dispensation for Natal is that if there are to be changes in those fields, if those changes are to be ethnically based—based on racial groups—they will be doomed to failure from the start. Whatever initiatives may be taken, even at Natal regional level, Government members will realise by now that in order to succeed as a basis of operation in the future, those changes cannot be based on ethnic or group differences.

I believe it is high time that we in South Africa got away from our obsession with precious group thinking. I believe it is time that we started thinking in terms of the rights of individuals and recognising the right of voluntary association on the part of individuals, because until we do that we will not satisfy the needs of the people of South Africa. We will not bring internal peace to South Africa. We will not find acceptability amongst the international community. While we continue with our preoccupation with ethnic and group considerations in the constitutional sphere, we will continue to be condemned to suffer from the disasters which flow from them, disasters such as the Group Areas Act, which has been referred to by many other speakers this morning, the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act, and the Population Registration Act, to name just a few, because they are products of the political Constitution under which we operate.

That Constitution cannot operate unless it has those pillars upon which to stand. As long as we are committed to that, these matters will continue to be the albatross around the neck of the Government in South Africa, and perhaps around the neck of South Africa itself. We see it here in Natal. They contribute to public ignorance on matters of race and the inability on the part of many people to see the population situation in South Africa and Natal in its proper perspective.

We have arguments about whether this beach or that beach should or should not be opened to other races. We have arguments about whether certain people should live in certain areas or not, subject to the criterion of race. We are seeing now in Natal committees being set up in White areas, which to my mind are reminiscent of the worst days of Nazi Germany, whereby people commit themselves to a racial witch-hunt in their area, to seek out individuals in their own area individuals who may not belong to the colour group for which that area is designated. That, I fear, is totally abhorrent to us in the PFP, as it should be to every decent South African. However, the Group Areas Act is there. The hon member for Brakpan is perhaps correct when he says the fault lies with the Government. The fault lies with the NP, because it is their legislation. Sometimes you cannot blame people who say that if this is the law, why are people allowed to break that law.

[Inaudible.]

The answer to the hon member for Umhlatuzana is that he must have the courage of his convictions and tell his party to repeal the Group Areas Act forthwith.

Hear, hear!

While that Act remains, one will have this division and the tendency on the part of people to involve themselves in witchhunts. We are conscious of the fact that we have awesome problems facing us in Natal. There are problems of urbanization and population growth. A few weeks ago I spoke to a visiting overseas diplomat, and when I told him I came from Durban he said that that must be a very interesting city and that they are doing a study on it, because by the turn of the century the city of Durban will have become one of the ten biggest cities in the world. That is quite a chilling thought. We have had reference today, and previously, to what is happening around greater Durban, namely what we would term squatter settlements. The fact of the matter is that there is a necklace of three to four million people converging upon Durban. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, in the first of my opportunities to address this august gathering here today, I wish to concentrate on the issue which I consider to be the most pressing problem facing the province of Natal.

This matter is the whole question of, and the associated problems involved with, Black urbanization. I think I do not understate the situation when I state that in Natal Black urbanization and the problems associated therewith constitute the most critical financial, political, sociological and economic problems that face this province. No other problem, and there are many other serious problems in this province, can match the extent and seriousness of the so-called squatter, shack or informal settlement problem, call it what you like, that has already been referred to by several speakers. May I say too, because I believe it to be factual, that the solving of this problem is not promoted or made any easier by the fact that there are so many players seeking a solution. That control is in fact so fragmented and we as the regional authority are in many instances but a peripheral player in this whole scene. I would urge hon members of Parliament to give serious consideration to the finding of some answers to the fact that in so many situations the easiest way to handle the problem is to pass the buck.

I believe that we need a co-ordinated approach and if we look at the greater Natal, it is made no easier. In some instances it is an Administration: House of Assembly responsibility, in others an Administration: House of Delegates responsibility, in others an Administration: House of Representatives responsibility, in others a Department of Development Aid responsibility, in others a KwaZulu government responsibility, and in some cases ours. This is a genuine practical problem that we are faced with.

The next point which I wish to make, is the whole question of the funding when it comes to a problem of such enormous proportions. Hon members will be interested to learn that for the coming year we, as an administration, determined our absolute minimum requirement for assistance from the National Housing Commission for soft loans to enable squatters to be resettled and to enable them to build themselves accommodation on a site-and-service basis. That minimum requirement was R55 million. We obtained R15 million. The minimum requirement was not an exaggerated requirement: It was the very minimum, genuinely, that we needed. On the other hand, we are told to seek funds from the local authorities loan fund. I am concerned though that I have to tell hon members today that not one application from this province to the local authorities loan fund for the coming year succeeded. It did not succeed because it was ruled that the communities which sought this financial assistance were too poor and too poverty-stricken to service the loans. So, hon members can imagine the Executive Committee’s, the senior officials’ and my own frustration when we are trying to get the wherewithal to tackle a problem of this nature. Where do we find the funds to get the whole process going if the major sources of funds to us are so limited? As was rightly said earlier, we have R2 million available in the coming year. How far will that get us with a problem of this enormity? I leave it to hon members’ imagination and I leave it to them as parliamentarians to do their level best to assist us in addressing this problem, particularly the problem of funding. We do hope that in additional estimates later in the year we might get a special or additional allocation of R5 million. We sincerely hope that nothing goes wrong between now and then for us to get that money because it will be sorely needed.

In considering this whole squatter problem, I think it is very important for us to realize that it affects Whites, Indians, Coloureds and Blacks. The whole community is affected by the problem. Secondly, we should distinguish between shack-dwellers who live legally on the owner’s land with the owner’s permission and squatters who are essentially living illegally, but because they have nowhere else to go no action has been taken against them. There is that distinction. Most of the people who form the necklace around Durban are in fact shack dwellers. They are living there with the permission of the landowner. So it is very important to us that we have obtained the new powers in terms of the Squatter Control Act, the only weakness in that being the fragmentation of those powers over a whole variety of authorities. The end result is that, rather than real action, we get this fragmentation effect.

I think we must not underestimate the contribution that the implementation of the Natal-KwaZulu planning council proposals will have on this problem. Hon members perhaps need to be reminded that at the beginning of last year a plan costing, in 1986 money, R1,2 billion was announced for the handling of shack dweller and squatter problem in Natal. But our great concern is that this was announced nearly 18 months ago and to this day not one plot on which a squatter can be settled has in fact come about. I would urge hon members of Parliament to assist us in getting the implementation of that plan on the road and getting the activities of the implementation committee which exists to be a lot more direct and positive. We cannot hope to address the problem unless those particular Natal-KwaZulu planning council proposals are completed in full. They will make a very significant contribution. However, we cannot wait for this to happen some time in the future. It must happen now.

I think it is relevant to bring in at this stage the argument raised by the hon member for Stanger, where he suggested that we delay regional services councils. I hope I have just given him the answer as to why this province cannot afford to delay regional services councils one extra single day.

He was not serious.

We cannot afford to lose the income and on balance the sooner we get the regional services councils going the better.

I now want to refer to some of the matters raised by the hon member for Pinetown. I would firstly like to say in particular that the senior staff responsible for community services and myself wish to place on record our gratitude to him as a public representative for his most helpful and co-operative attitude in the handling of squatter problems, with which he has been associated.

We do appreciate the positive attitude he has adopted. He put his thumb on the nub of the problem: Funding is clearly inadequate, and we want hon members to realize that here today and to assist us in this regard.

I want to deal specifically with the Luganda situation. It illustrates some of the problems we have. Firstly, in the Luganda situation, one should read for “Administrator” in the Bill “Minister of Housing in the House of Delegates”. He in fact is the administrator in the Luganda situation. [Interjections.]

Order!

The situation is absolutely correct as I have stated it. We have tried to come in and help. We had no way of knowing that the problem was going to arise. We are faced with a situation of no funds, no organization and no land, and we must try and solve that problem. In the coming financial year we hope to have R90 000 to utilize for this project. But there are many sociological and other problems that arise. Hon members will, for example, perhaps be interested to know that one of the reasons why we cannot resettle the Luganda people at Savannah Park, or cannot easily do so, is because the people of Mariann Ridge, St Wendolin’s and Mariannhill are so opposed to the Luganda people being resettled at Savannah Park that the Luganda people’s lives are being threatened. So we have many issues which make this particular problem very difficult.

Another problem in that whole greater Mariannhill area is that we are still awaiting the final deproclamation and proclamation of the various group areas in terms of the Group Areas Act in that area. The actual proclamations have not yet been signed and are not available to us. This is causing inordinate delays as far as our ability to tackle that problem is concerned.

I now want to deal with other matters which were raised by various hon members. The hon member for South Coast raised the question of the possibility of the disposal of sewage effluent into the sea on the Natal coast. I wish to say that this administration is fully aware of the fact that this is both a controversial and an emotional issue. We are at present involved in an investigation, in collaboration with the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, the relevant research institute of the Stellenbosch University and the scientists of the Department of Water Affairs, into the whole question of the suitability or otherwise of sewage disposal into the sea on the Natal coast. It must be made clear that we do not contemplate and would never contemplate the disposal of sewage in the way most people imagine we are going to do it, namely into the surf zone in a totally undegraded form.

There are certain criteria which have been laid down for a licence by the Department of Water Affairs for the use of a deep-sea outfall for sewage disposal. Amongst these is the need for a high energy coastline, where the tidal and current characteristics meet certain basic criteria. I want to give the assurance here today that this Administration will not act irresponsibly at all in this matter. The investigations and the whole process by which this matter is handled, will be done as openly as possible so that all who wish to make a contribution will be able to do so. The specific question which the hon member for South Coast raised concerning the investigation at Shelly Beach involving a certain firm of consulting engineers has been investigated. I will be able to give the hon member some information in that regard in a personal report to him.

On the question of the juristic vote, I would like to place on record that as far as this Administration is concerned we are quite happy that there should be a corporate or juristic vote. We in fact have been waiting for the Act to come into effect. I wish to report that the latest thinking is, and this has been discussed at the co-ordinating council and by its action committee, that the most suitable mechanism for introducing this on a nationwide basis would probably be the simultaneous and identical amendment of provincial ordinances. At our last co-ordinating council meeting the use of such a mechanism was discussed.

I will now turn to a matter raised by the hon member for Stanger. Today the hon member for Stanger made the statement that the Free Settlement Areas Act opened the door for non-racial local government. He also made a statement that this Administration should take the lead in such activities. I want to say that perhaps the hon member for Stanger does not clearly understand the ramifications and details of that Act. In reality this Administration is but a peripheral player in the implementation of this Act. We are consulted on certain planning issues and as far as controlled areas are concerned we might initiate an investigation into the establishment of a free settlement area. However, within existing local authorities, where there are existing group areas, the initiative has to come from the local authority itself, with the agreement and approval of the respective Houses of the tricameral Parliament. So in many instances this particular Administration of ours has no role to play in the initiation of investigations into free settlement areas. I think it must be understood that we can play neither a dominant nor a leading role in this whole process. We play a supplementary role, a role of assisting where required, and in certain instances we give our support or otherwise to the proposals of others.

Delegated powers are the same thing. What about delegated powers?

I will come to that now. I want to state quite clearly here today that the whole question of delegated powers is a much misunderstood and much maligned concept. This is done mainly for petty political reasons. I am faced with the situation that I have requests from communities and leaders, leaders from the House of Representatives in particular, who ask that as an interim situation we must please give their people a meaningful say in the decisions that affect their daily lives. That is all I am attempting to do. I acknowledge that it is an interim situation. I have freely acknowledged from public platform after public platform that the LAC system, as it stands at the present time, is inadequate, outdated and must be changed. But I am not prepared, and I am sure there are many who will support me in this regard, to have every effort I make to meet the aspirations of individual LACs vetoed by the chairman of the Natal Association of Local Affairs Committees. It was said earlier by the hon member for Northern Natal that he would like to see a far greater degree of co-operation between this Administration and the Natal Association of Local Affairs Committees. So would I, but I wonder how many of the hon members here today have been asked to co-operate with the leader of an organization who calls those with whom he wishes to co-operate “twopenny upstarts” and “Johnnies-come-lately” in his public address at the annual general meeting of Nalac.

I want to emphasise that co-operation is a two-way process and as such we extend our hand of friendship to Nalac. Nalac, in turn, has to grasp that hand.

On the question of beaches I simply wish to make the statement that I am proud of and stand by the policy of this Administration with regard to open beaches under our control. Over the Easter weekend, particularly on Easter Sunday when literally tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of people of every hue and colour were enjoying themselves on the beach in peace and in neighbourliness and with limited discomfort to those that live nearby, I made it my personal business to mingle with the crowds on the beaches of Natal.

Mr Chairman, may I ask the hon MEC a question?

I do not have enough time. I want to emphasise that naturally we are going through a teething process. There are teething problems and problems with regard to education and behaviour. People must learn to make their standards of behaviour acceptable to a civilised society. I believe that that learning curve is making great progress at the present time.

Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure for me to speak after the hon MEC, Mr Piet Miller. On this occasion I should like to convey my sincere thanks to the hon the Administrator and the Executive Committee for the co-operation we experienced when we approached them with problems from our constituencies. I also want to thank the officials of the province for the excellent way they support us in the performance of our task.

At the outset we also want to convey our sincere thanks to the hon the Administrator and the Executive Committee for the sincere way in which they always receive us in Pietermaritzburg and make us feel at home. We also thank the hon member for Umlazi sincerely for the way in which he has acted as chairman of this committee. We also congratulate his successor, the hon member for South Coast. He and I have come a long way together. He and I both started serving in this Chamber in 1974. I believe that he is well equipped indeed to make a success of this task which has now been entrusted to him. I congratulate him and wish him everything of the best.

On this occasion too, I should like to convey our sincere congratulations to the Commissioner-General, Mr Tony Erskine, who was appointed Commissioner-General of KwaZulu. We also want to wish him everything of the best with his task in future.

We thank the hon member for Brakpan sincerely for the kind things he said about the Administration and the way in which they rendered assistance during the recent floods in Natal. We associate ourselves with those remarks. However, the hon member went on to express contempt for the activities of this committee. The only conclusion we can draw is that the CP does not care about the people of Natal.

Please, that is nonsense!

In any event they were unable to achieve any success in Natal during the recent election, and were sent packing with their tails between their legs. The people of Natal are not interested in die CP. They are not what we are looking for; we do not want them in this province. [Interjections.]

The hon member for Berea referred in a derogatory way here to groups and group rights. The reason they hold these in contempt is one of the reasons they are going to bury their political party on Friday. In my opinion the new party is doomed to the same fate. They do not really have much chance of being a successful.

The hon the Administrator and the Executive Committee are doing pioneering work here in Natal. Their co-operation with KwaZulu by means of the Joint Executive Authority, even though it is finally an administrative matter, is conducive to good neighbourliness. Through co-operation we develop an understanding of another’s needs and circumstances. Regular consultation and deliberation cause prejudices to disappear and develop a very good understanding.

The Joint Executive Authority is a result of the reform initiatives of the hon the State President. On this occasion, however, I want to point out that this Executive Committee liaised with other groups in Natal in the distant past, and also promoted co-operation in this connection.

On this occasion we should like to pay tribute to the hon the State President who made service to South Africa his life’s work. Indeed, he devoted his entire life to public life. The peace initiatives in Southern Africa remind us that his initiatives contributed greatly to our strong Defence Force and to the modern, efficient arms industry in our country.

The hon member for Brakpan referred to events in South West Africa. On this occasion we want to convey our thanks to the hon the State President, the hon the Minister of Foreign Affairs and all those who are working untiringly on the peace initiatives in Southern Africa. Our actions and the events in South West Africa are at present firing the imagination of the entire world. It is clear that the eyes of prejudiced persons are now being opened.

On this occasion, on behalf of the people of Natal and all well-wishers gathered together today, we want to convey our deepest sympathy to the next-of-kin of the members of the territorial force who once again had to make the ultimate sacrifice in South West Africa.

The positive results of co-operation in this province, which are clearly apparent from the actions of the Joint Executive Authority, demonstrate that talks among leaders on national level can similarly have positive consequences. The hon the State President began the reform process in our country. The NP elected a new national leader, the hon the Minister of National Education. He is extremely well equipped for his task. We in Natal wish him everything of the best. He enjoys our wholehearted support. A spirit of unity and optimism is prevailing in the NP, which is aimed at joining him in building the future of our country.

All the people in our country and everyone assembled here today have common ideals. We all strive for peace, prosperity and progress. These ideals can only be realised through cooperation. There must be a willingness to do this and a willingness to hold discussions. While long-term political discussions are being sought, the Government is engaged in essential upliftment work in which this province is also involved. The upliftment of less-developed areas and the provision of infrastructure, training and job opportunities must be accelerated.

The hon MEC and other hon members referred to the problems we have in this province, particularly around Durban. It is imperative that the Government make more funds available so that we can resolve this explosive situation and give urgent attention to it. This province needs a financial support in order to tackle and solve this problem.

On this occasion I want to propose that the Government consider relieving the chairman of the Commission for Co-operation and Development of his constituency problems. He ought to become a nominated member of the House of Assembly so that he can give more attention to the process of the acquisition of land so that this problem can be solved.

The hon member for Pietermaritzburg North pointed out that the KwaZulu Government also have a task in this connection. It is a fact that they will have to give urgent consideration to the way in which land is being utilised in KwaZulu. The urbanisation process is not a unilateral process. It is imperative for urbanisation to take place around the group areas and the growth points in Natal. It must also take place inside KwaZulu in the territory of the authority. When housing pressure occurs near growth points people should not always look to the Government for solutions. KwaZulu will also have to be prepared to make its own land available for the urbanisation process. More funds are required to perform this essential task, and in this connection KwaZulu must also be provided with funds so as to allow the urbanisation process to take place in their territory. We expect everyone who has the welfare of—in this case—our Black people at heart to co-operate.

But what is happening in practice? Instead of our receiving assistance, world powers are appealing for sanctions against us and within the country radical groups are stirring up unrest. I find it so significant that Mrs Thatcher, on her visit to Africa, arrived at certain problem areas, and then promised millions in order to rush to the assistance of people in those areas. We are very grateful for that, but I think it is time world leaders stop simply criticising South Africa. They must visit our country too and when they find problem areas in our country, instead of criticising us, they must thrust a hand into their own pockets to help do the essential upliftment.

An invitation has been extended to the so-called freedom fighters in this country to renounce violence and to participate in dialogue. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, experience has already shown in this historical building, which I understand will mark the centenary of the first sitting of the Legislative Assembly in Pietermaritzburg on 25 April, that it is getting harder by the day to administer this tricameral system of government. It is true that our hon MEC Mr Peter Miller was begging this House to appeal to the central Government for more funds to administer those issues which are the responsibility of this Administration. Within the kind of system in which we are debating this whole issue one wonders about that.

Yesterday, during the question and answer session, we learned that most of the major items in the budget were delayed because of not having been in the previous budget and that many other major and essential projects will not be developed or provided for within the next five years. This was said to us in no uncertain terms. There is not enough money and that is the message we are getting. One of the issues raised was the Cato Manor Hospital which was estimated to cost R244 310 000 and which will be completed in 1997 or the year 2000, depending on whether a seven or ten-year building programme is approved. This approval must come from the Treasury, again a money question. Phoenix Hospital, in an area where there are already more than 250 000 people, is now an own affairs responsibility for the House of Delegates. Practically nothing was done prior to 1984 and it is now up to the House of Delegates to plan while suffering takes place.

Another issue raised was why there have been delays in the commissioning of community health centres at the A K Khan Hospital, Tongaat and Imbali. Personnel posts have been frozen, again because of funds. We have heard of the medical posts which are not filled in many hospitals—approximately 20 of them—again because there are insufficient funds. Gross underprovision of medical and surgical equipment in the past has resulted in large backlogs in respect of equipment. From R11,9 million we have budgeted R28,4 million and it was further explained that this will not meet the backlog.

I want to raise another issue, namely hospital fees. They have been increased and it is wrong in my view to have a policy to balance a budget against expenses by increasing tariffs and hospital fees when this is an essential service which many cannot afford. I will quote what the hon MEC said when he replied to the Deputy Minister of Population Development’s question:

The imbalances in this country have not been equalized and one will always have poorer communities. It was a great shock to the poorer people when the hon MEC, in defending the increases, said that the situation in Natal hospitals was that the overall cost recovery was about 6% of the total expenditure. He further said:

I still say that we will always have poorer communities and we therefore have to find money to subsidize certain services.

I will go on to another issue. I have only mentioned a few of the essential services that we need to guard. These essential and priority items include the health and care of the people. If these services are affected by costs, serious demands will eventually be made on the Government for other forms of assistance. There is nothing more serious, besides the non-development of many roads, libraries and open recreation areas, than the squatter problem which has been mentioned in this House. The gravity of this issue is immeasurable and it is a time bomb. It will not only increase political agitation; a very serious health problem will arise and it will cost this country millions of rand if nothing is done.

The hon the Administrator yesterday appealed to the joint committee and made his position clear. He said that the greatest urbanization in the southern hemisphere was taking place in the periphery of Durban. Over 1,7 million Black people have squatted in the Inanda area. The same situation has arisen in the Edendale area outside Pietermaritzburg. Surveys have thus far shown that there are 141 informal settlements, and there could be more. This is in the area under the control of the Natal Provincial Administration and it excludes the group areas, KwaZulu development areas and Trust areas. In these areas there are 233 901 people living as squatters and this does not include the legal shack dwellers. Therefore if one takes the total picture of people without proper housing, not living in good conditions, there must be at least 2 to 3 million people who need urgent help. They are either squatters or shack dwellers who have no health facilities and we must safeguard their health and the health of others. There is, however, not enough money available.

In respect of the informal controlled settlement or the provision of housing, water or health services, the problem in Natal is either ignored or receives a low priority. Action is needed now, not tomorrow. I hope, in a lighter vein, that Natal has not been left out because it is the last British outpost.

With the limited time I have left I would like to comment briefly on constitutional development. The hon MEC, Mr Miller, yesterday faced the opposition to any devolution of power to the local authorities. He considered the withdrawal of certain clauses. Why? One can no longer be acting in an advisory capacity, and any transfer of power to LACs without financial resources does not solve the problem. He admitted here that he agrees that this system must go. I said last year in this Committee that nothing has changed dramatically to allow any devolution to take place in this country. Nothing has become equal overnight.

I therefore believe that the article in The Natal Mercury this morning does not reflect the type of opposition that we put up in this committee. We have only agreed to those items that do not affect the principle. No devolution with political implications is supported. We firmly feel that devolution cannot take place in this particular context. We are prepared to sit with anyone who is pursuing a cause to find a system of government which would accept people of colour as equals. We will continue with our principle stand and we will not act in an advisory capacity any more. We are separating the legal rights of a taxpayer and a ratepayer to use the local authority, when in reality his legal right through citizenship and his birthright make him a legal holder of rights in the “parent” local authority. At present the system forces him to assume an advisory role while he pays the same tax and rates.

Local authority councils and own affairs have served their purpose. I must concede, however imperfect the system may be, that it helped to expose the need for change. It brought people to understand and accept each other. It has set the scene for change and created a forum for participation. The country cannot afford the luxury of keeping people separated and of having several levels of government structures to administer an outdated policy, which is having an effect not only on our race relations, but also on the economy of this country. So many speakers have said that today, including the hon the Administrator and the hon MEC.

The hon the Administrator’s address this morning did not give much hope, but rather a warning of what is in store for this country if it wants to provide the financial means to provide adequately for all the services and facilities. In fact, he went much further by saying very honestly, as an old politician, that this country cannot go any further and cannot provide the service unless we have the money.

What have we heard so far? The hon MEC said there was a funding problem, and he appealed to the House to address this. Then we talked about the cutting of the cake, and mentioned that we must be cautious in spending money. He said we must look at the question of affordability in the total expenditure. I repeat, nothing has become equal in this country, and for the have-nots to start cutting down all of a sudden, is hard. We have sacrificed, and the per capita expenditure as far as the non-White community is concerned has over the years been far less than that of our counterparts in the White community.

We have talked here today of international and national problems which are contributing to our fiscal problem. It is so because of the system. I therefore want to say that the timetable must now be set to phase out the local affairs committee system. There is no point in repeatedly talking about it. People who belong there should be represented directly. The own affairs system must also be phased out and be replaced by a single parliamentary representative of all the people in South Africa.

These institutions are creating further separation and disunity which this country cannot afford; not now, nor in the future. After yesterday’s deliberations, the province would be the first to admit that this system is getting too complicated, costly and frustrating. One example which we discussed yesterday was to retain the Development and Services Board, but at the same time we also argued that we cannot have four separate ethnic Development and Services Boards. Some hospitals fall under own affairs only for budgeting purposes, but are run by the NPA. We have had a lot of confusion in obtaining answers to questions. When a person of colour is not employed in one of these institutions, is it—I do not blame anyone who thinks so—because of his particular race group that he is not allowed to be employed in that institution, which is run by a particular administration? What are we doing in this country? We must seriously look at answers to the problems that face us.

In the few minutes that I have, I would like to touch on another matter which is very prevalent. It concerns the prevention of environmental pollution. Concerning the pollution and waste problem, I have always firmly believed that this country cannot carry on the way it does at present. We hope that the provincial administration will also play a great part in this regard. There is also a new Bill before Parliament at present. This country, with its fauna and flora, has a tremendous heritage and beauty. I have been to many parts of the world where laws have made people respect and understand this issue. It was alarming to read recently that South Africa spends over R120 million a year cleaning up litter. I quote from The Natal Mercury of 17 March 1989:

I believe that it is imperative for us, for the community of South Africa as a whole, and for the initiative of the province, to ensure that the heritage of our country and the question of litter be resolved.

I wish to pass on to another matter. Yesterday we discussed library services. The Natal Provincial Administration provides library services in some areas, while Durban and Pietermaritzburg have the authority to provide for this in their areas. I believe, while there must have been a decision by one of the executives of the province, that we should examine whether a single authority should not provide this service in order to prevent problems. The problem is that Durban and Pietermaritzburg decide of their own accord to provide library services when they want to. We believe that the provincial administration must examine this situation. It is a function, generally speaking, of the province to provide library services for everyone.

Finally, I think we have debated far too long on issues of devolution, delegation and the kind of system we have. Today’s debate and yesterday’s deliberations have proved to me that the tricameral system cannot exist any more. There must be another system, because it is becoming too complicated, even for the best experts sitting here. They are appealing to us to find money to continue with the system. I think the time has come for the Government to take stock and realize that we need to phase out this system and create a new system where people of colour are represented. It has proved in this debate, as well as in joint debates in Parliament, that we can sit, protect this country, deliberate and live as one community in South Africa. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, may I just say to the last speaker that it is all very well to condemn and say that the tricameral system should be done away with. Before one even gets around to thinking in those terms, however, let us be quite sure that what we are going to put in its place will be acceptable to everybody.

Hear, hear!

I also want to express my congratulations to the hon member for South Coast on his appointment as chairman of the joint committee. I would also like to convey my appreciation to the previous chairman, the hon member for Umlazi, for his courtesy at all times. I also wish to pay tribute to the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee, whom I have approached on numerous occasions during the year. I must say that I have been greatly impressed by their conscientiousness and by the efforts that they have put in to try and resolve so many of the problems that we are facing these days. I would also like to express my thanks to the officials for their courtesy and co-operation at all times. I am deeply appreciative of their efforts.

Mr Chairman, I took note of the hon the Administrator’s comments relating to the control that has been exercised in regard to public spending.

I fully support this concept, but I must stress that on account of the weak state of the South African economy, the time has come that future capital expenditure be directed to essential structures—I reiterate: Essential structures. Non-essential capital expenditure should be restricted and curtailed until a more visible improvement takes place within the country’s economy.

I wish to deal with a specific matter that affects parts of my constituency by focusing the attention of this committee on a matter that has been a source of considerable dissatisfaction over many years to a group of farmers in the Swartberg area in East Griqualand.

This matter has now been delegated to the Natal Provincial Administration. Here I wish to refer to the fate of some 15 landowners whose properties were earmarked for acquisition by the State for inclusion in the Drakensberg catchment area. The Department of Environment Affairs originally identified the 15 000 ha in question as long ago as 1976-77. Repeated representations to the Government over the years to finalize payment for these farms have, however, fallen on deaf ears, with the result that these unfortunate landowners now find themselves in an invidious and intolerable situation. I must point out, Sir, that as soon as the State reveals its intention to acquire any tract of agricultural land, irrespective of where it may be, the status and future marketability of that land becomes prejudiced immediately.

This is precisely what has happened in the case of the Swartberg farmers, who now find themselves in a most difficult situation where, through no fault of their own, the proverbial sword of Damocles hangs heavily over them. Their land now carries what can best be described as a stigma, which inevitably has a detrimental effect on any natural land transaction within that demarcated area.

Furthermore, Sir, as soon as the State’s intentions became known, the incentive to proceed with further development of these properties completely disappeared. This in turn set the pace for a general process of degeneration and deterioration and, regrettably, it will be the landowners who, in the end, will have to pay the price for Government tardiness in making funds available to finalize the purchase of these properties.

Time does not permit me to elaborate to any great degree on the hardships the Swartberg farmers have experienced over the past ten years. However, I would ask this committee and the public as a whole to spare a thought for those landowners who have been forced to abandon their properties on account of ill health or age, those who have been unable to re-establish themselves elsewhere because of inflation and who will not be able to do so in the future, the heirs who have not been able to realise properties they have inherited and those who have been compelled to live in a state of uncertainty and insecurity for a whole ten years.

As I stated earlier, Sir, the Government has reconfirmed repeatedly its intention to acquire the 15 farms in question, but has always failed to come up with the necessary funds to bring this about. I can only say that the Government’s handling of the whole matter has been nothing short of iniquitous and displays a complete lack of understanding and sensitivity of the hardships that have been experienced. In fact, I would even go so far as to say that these East Griqualand farmers have been treated with a callousness which verges on contempt.

I am concerned, too, that the Department of Environment Affairs has now seen fit to pass the buck to the NPA which, in spite of its own tight budget, will now be required to make provision in future for this additional responsibility. It is in this context that I appeal to the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee to accord this matter the highest priority rating now that the proverbial baby has landed in their laps, so that the plight of these farmers can be finally resolved.

Mr Chairman, in the short time available to me I wish to make just one or two comments in regard to the question of roads. One cannot get away from the fact that one of the most significant and disturbing features of the budget centres around the crisis facing the provincial road system in Natal. This, as we have heard on previous occasions, is on account of insufficient funds from central Government. The question that now needs to be answered is whether the other three provinces receive greater contributions proportionately than Natal, and if so, for what reason. I do hope, Sir, that the hon MEC Mr Volker will be able to dispel the fears that many of us have in this regard.

The evidence of the deterioration in Natal’s roads is becoming increasingly apparent, and particularly so on routes serving outlying and rural areas. It is a frightening prospect that the accumulated financial backlog to restore existing roads to the required standard is now approaching some R600 million. That is without taking into consideration the construction of new roads. I can only assume that the central authorities do not fully appreciate the magnitude of the problem with which the Natal Roads Department is confronted. Let it be recorded here that the economy of the province will be severely jeopardized if its road network is allowed to deteriorate to such a degree that normal traffic movement becomes restricted on account of the poor condition of its main route systems.

However, this is not where the problem ends. In the meantime the tremendous potential for tourism in parts of Natal, and in particular Southern Natal, is neither being exploited nor developed. This is all because of the fact that the present roads, on account of their poor condition, are actually acting as a deterrent to tourists, particularly those from overseas. What a tragedy this is, bearing in mind that this country is so desperately in need of foreign exchange and that, at the same time, the means of attracting this foreign exchange in the form of tourism lie on our very own doorstep. All that remains now is for this natural asset to be developed in order to take advantage of this potential.

Mr Chairman, finally I just want to say a few words in regard to the alternate road R103 between Nottingham Road and Mooi River. May I repeat what I have always said, namely that this road is a totally unsuitable road as an alternate route. I am prepared to argue that with anybody, bearing in mind that the traffic count on that road has increased some fourfold since the opening of the toll road at Mooi River in December. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I would like to associate myself in general with the good wishes that have been expressed and the references to the hospitality that we are receiving here in respect of the hon the Administrator and the Executive Committee, as well as the new chairman of our joint committee. I am sure hon members will pardon me if I say that I particularly associate myself with the sentiments expressed by the hon member for Umfolozi with regard to South West Africa since I am a native of that country.

†In the opening remarks of his Budget Speech this year, the hon the Minister of Finance said that only when history in its relentless way passes judgement on the most recent years in the development of our economy and on other major aspects of our national life, the role of each of the various actors can be assessed properly. The hon the Minister continued by saying that the crucial test will lie in the goals that people, either as individuals or in groups, set for themselves in this era, their actions and the results they achieve.

Local government, Mr Chairman, is a fundamental part of any democratic government system, and to my way of thinking one of the main issues that should be properly assessed. Therefore it should be, and as a matter of fact I think it is, an objective of the province that every community should have a democratically elected, and effectively functioning local authority who can make decisions in respect of municipal affairs concerning that community. Once a local authority is endowed with the necessary powers and duties it expects to be able to manage its affairs independently. However, this is impossible without a sound financial base. The Government is aware of this fact and is continually investigating various possibilities in search of a suitable solution to this problem.

The establishment of regional services councils is a major initiative in this regard. Over R300 million has already been allocated by regional services councils to constituent local authorities. The hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning has acknowledged the fact that the Government is aware of the fact that the regional services councils cannot satisfy all the needs of all communities. The hon the Minister mentioned that different possibilities are continually examined in order to establish a sound and viable dispensation for local authorities. In this connection the Council for the Co-ordination of Local Government Affairs decided on 20 October last year that the redistribution of sources of income for all local authorities should be investigated and that certain matters should be dealt with. These matters include firstly, the demarcation of the areas of jurisdiction of all local authorities, so that they can form economically viable units, secondly, a formula for the distribution of sources of income among local authorities; and thirdly, the allocation of sources generated in the central business and industrial areas.

A close look would also have to be taken at the affordability of certain systems. Standards and levels of services provided will also receive attention. The availability of financial resources lays the foundation for any structure. Any Government institution that has certain functions to perform, must have the financial resources to carry out those functions.

*Mr Chairman, during this debate last year I referred to the important financial implications of regional services councils. I also appealed to Province for their speedy implementation. I do so again this year and would like to know from the hon MEC to what extent progress has been made in this respect and how the planning is going in respect of the full implementation of regional services councils in Natal.

As I have already indicated, regional services councils provide local authorities with an important additional source of income. The budgeted levy income from the sixteen existing regional services councils in the Republic of South Africa amounts to more than R400 million for the current financial year. The budgeted levy incomes of the regional services councils of the East Rand and Western Cape, which are comparable with the Durban metropole, are estimated at R64 million and R63 million respectively.

Regional services councils not only play an important role for the town- or city-dweller, but they have an important role to play in agriculture as well. The hon the Minister of Agriculture said the following during a congress of the Free State Agricultural Union, which was specially convened to deliberate on regional services councils, and I quote from Landbounuus of 27 February 1989:

Agriculture, with its particular social requirements, must be adapted and upgraded from time to time in order to keep pace, not only with the developed communities of the neighbouring towns, but also with the rest of the country.

Most of the country’s farmers try, out of humanitarian and Christian considerations, to create happy and contented communities on their farms by providing better services as far as housing, education, recreation and health are concerned.

I believe that the hon MEC entrusted with roads will agree with me and support me when I say that a function such as the maintenance of secondary roads can surely be added to these functions, because I can see no reason why it should not be very economical and sensible for such a function to be undertaken by the regional services councils. Agriculture cannot be allowed to fall behind on account of specific economic circumstances. Neglected rural areas mean unstable communities.

In closing: We must do everything in our power to implement this important step in the reform process of the Republic of South Africa. In the process of evolutionary reform, regional services councils provide a very important and essential contribution to South African history.

Mr Chairman, it is with pleasure that I take part in this debate on the Natal budget for the first time. I have noticed that according to the list of speakers I am an independent member, but that is not correct. To put the record straight with Hansard, I would like to point out that I am a member of the Democratic Reform Party, which is the Official Opposition in the House of Representatives.

The party has only seven members.

That is correct, but we are nevertheless the Official Opposition.

Hon members have stated that this gathering is an extension of Parliament. Here we assemble from all corners of South Africa to debate the issue entrusted to us by Parliament, viz the Natal budget. I am sure that many of you do not know where Daljosafat is. That is why I say it is from all corners of South Africa.

Mr Chairman, in his speech the hon member for South Coast mentioned the fact that confrontation should be avoided and that negotiation should be put to work. My party agrees with him entirely on this aspect. It is only in joint debate that we can find each other. This has been proved during the past four years since we have entered Parliament. However, when I say “we”, I am referring to those South Africans of all political persuasions who are presently—I repeat presently—participating in the current constitutional dispensation. In this dispensation we are able to deliberate on issues of national importance, and to legislate for the progress of South Africa, progress that we believe should lead to a new constitution which will provide a Parliament in which all South Africans irrespective of colour will be represented.

Since yesterday we have been debating on issues of crucial importance to Natal. We have spoken to each other, and have listened to each other, and will continue to do so on several issues such as finance, local government, squatters, hospitals, the KwaZulu-Natal Indaba, and so forth. I will not elaborate on these issues as I feel that there are local hon members who are better able to contribute on these issues. However, the hon member for Stanger mentioned one issue that is very close to my heart, and that is the question of free settlement areas.

We in the DRP support this legislation and we have said so in Parliament. There are hon members in this Chamber who represent the different Houses of Parliament, who for racist or misguided ideological reasons have rejected the Free Settlement Areas Bill. My party sees it as a means to encourage free association of persons in such an area and an inroad into the Group Areas Act. We see it as free association across colour lines which will eventually lead to mixed schools and mixed local authorities in an apartheid-free area, instead of ethnic LACs or management committees in ethnic townships. We see it eventually as the road to an apartheid-free South Africa. This is our point of departure. There are hon members in this Chamber who encourage the municipalities to cut off the water supply and electricity of people, because they are of a different colour and they are supposedly living in the wrong areas. May I take this opportunity to thank the hon the Deputy Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning for immediately ordering an investigation to have the Windmill Park area—where this racist action was carried out by a racist municipality and which is a constituency of one of the hon members of the CP—declared a free settlement area. I cannot but agree with the hon member for Stanger when he states that the whole of Durban should be declared a free settlement area. Durban is one of the most cosmopolitan towns in South Africa. There you see people of all colours thronging together, particularly in the central area. My party and I will support this legislation.

Mr Chairman, arising from certain speeches which have already been made here, I first want to make a few comments. In the first place, I want to refer to what the hon member for Umfolozi said. He was reacting to certain remarks of the hon member for Brakpan. He made the allegation that the hon member for Brakpan did not care about Natal because he had referred to the state of affairs in South West Africa and the seriousness of the situation which was developing there. In my opinion the superficiality of the debating on the Government side has seldom been better illustrated than by that particular remark.

You are distorting my words.

That is specifically what the hon member for Brakpan was speaking about and the hon member for Umfolozi reacted specifically to it. He can shout and try to deny this as much as he likes now. The fact of the matter is that we of the CP say that the situation in South West Africa at the moment is urgent and serious enough to interrupt any other debate which simply deals with the budget of a province or of a Government department in order to pay attention to that matter first. We cannot do this now in consequence of this foolish constitutional dispensation in which we currently find ourselves and the rules by which we operate at present. I also want to say to the hon member that he appears to be full of courage but we have a disillusionment waiting for him. He referred to the 1987 election but only Empangeni saved him at that stage, and with a view to the next election, he can start calculating his pension.

†As regards the remarks of the hon MEC Mr Miller about the racially integrated beaches, he alleged that there was very limited discomfort on the beach which he visited on Easter Sunday. Generally there was peace and quiet. What the hon MEC did not tell us was how many policemen were on duty on that beach. We would like to know that, because it is not only the members of the Executive Council who visit these beaches, but also members of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly. We also know what is going on on these beaches.

Mixed beaches!

Mixed beaches, yes. The hon member asks that as if it were funny, but does the hon member of the NP not know that his party opened all the beaches in Natal except those very few exceptions over which the Provincial Administration does not have authority? That is the policy of the NP. There is nowhere to go. As far as the hon MEC Mr Miller’s remarks about the NPA’s policy of opening up all the beaches are concerned, I think this is another indication of the total lack of credibility of the NP. What happened here is that a member of the Executive Council of Natal stood up and boasted about the policy of the appointed Executive Council of Natal to open up all the beaches, whereas in Parliament in Cape Town the hon the Minister of Home Affairs stood up in a debate recently and said that provision should be made for different ethnic groups to have different beaches. Not only are there in some instances requirements for beaches to be opened …

[Inaudible.]

… but there are also different ethnic groups who want to have separate beaches. How does that tally? It is clear that the NP is using the old tactics of the United Party by saying something in the “platteland” and saying something different in the city. It is clearly illustrated by what happened here.

I want to react to the remark of the hon member for Berea that groups should not be a criterion in the politics of South Africa.

*I think that Pietermaritzburg is probably the one place which can show how ridiculous that argument is. This town is the very site of the Geloftekerk which is one of the most eloquent examples of the retention of the interests of a group. As early as a century ago in South Africa we had to do with the problem of the protection of the interests of different groups and of different races in the same country. It seems as if the PFP is a century behind the times. How can we take any serious notice of a party with such an argument in the light of increasing problems in South Africa and the development of the political situation. During the recent Easter recess, Natal provided yet another very joyful occasion in my constituency. Roodepoort’s rugby team took the National Club Championship in Natal and we are not a little proud of this. We also want to add—not that this was unexpected—that Easter and the Easter holiday once again drew attention to Natal for other reasons.

To the swimming too, not so?

As happens at this time every year, thousands of holidaymakers from the interior charged down to holiday resorts in Natal. A holiday at the seaside remains an attraction to every person from the interior and the way in which provision is made for that holidaymaker is an important advertisement for this province. This leads me to the first subject which I wish to touch upon and that is the activities of the Natal Sharks Board and the Natal Parks Board and related matters. The Sharks Board under the control of Mrs Beula Davis annually furnishes thousands of people from the interior who come for a dip in the Indian Ocean with one of the most important services almost unobtrusively. The safeguarding of bathers against shark attacks at our most important beaches and the continuous study of shark behaviour and movements are dealt with in such a way that the holidaymaker feels safe without being over-aware of the finned friends of the deep. As someone born in the Transvaal who has frequently visited Natal beaches, I want to express my sincere thanks and gratitude to Mrs Davis and her team. I am sure I am putting the sentiment of all the people of the interior who come here on holiday into words.

South Africa, just like Natal, is particularly dependent upon international tourism. Not only is it an important source of income to us but I also regard it as the most important means of informing the outside world about South Africa and the internal situation. Safeguarding our beaches is indispensable for those reasons. For the same reasons the protection and care of our flora and fauna are of the utmost importance.

The scenic beauty of Natal is unique. Whenever one flies over this province, one gains the impression of rolling green hills and valleys, the indescribably beautiful mountains and the apparently endless number of streams in Natal.

I regularly receive press releases by post from the Natal Parks Board as well as information brochures on their activities. I want to express my thanks here for this. I have brought two examples along. In brochure 8 of 1988 one finds the inaugural address of the new Director of the Natal Parks Board, Dr George Hughes, and we should like to congratulate him on this appointment at this first sitting of the Extended Public Committee after his appointment.

The brochure carries various interesting items of news on the activities of the Natal Parks Board. In this issue the death of Mr D E Mitchell, the founder of the Natal Parks Board, is mentioned among other items. We want to take this opportunity to associate ourselves with the fine words of appreciation by the Natal Parks Board of the late Mr Mitchell and his activities.

In the press release of December 1988, to which I want to refer as well, a matter is raised which is in the world spotlight at present, that is the damage to nature by toxic substances and other harmful materials as well as the damage to nature by man in particular.

Over the past week we have heard about the shocking damage to wildlife in Alaska and its vicinity by the rupture of a huge oil tanker along that coast and the consequent spillage of millions of barrels of crude oil into the sea. We are currently also receiving disturbing reports of damage to the ozone layer of the earth by toxic materials.

The press release to which I referred alludes to the death of wild birds and animals in Natal in consequence of the injudicious use of toxic substances. It is mentioned that the Natal Parks Board and the veterinary laboratory at Allerton have joined forces in an effort to combat this process. It is done by determining the nature and source of toxic substances, where there is suspicion that animals have been poisoned, and teaching landowners the judicious use of pesticides and herbicides. I take pleasure in quoting the following from the press release:

In addition the same press release refers to the threat to survival of the Samango monkey, especially by landowners who shoot this type of monkey, while it is chiefly the vervet monkey which damages crops.

These few examples from our own environment form only a small part of the greater picture of the increasing damage to nature by man. We want to plead that South Africa, with its scenery and wildlife which is unique in the world, take the initiative in a campaign to tackle the damage to nature as a matter of the highest priority. We are the logical leaders in such a campaign. We have unique scenic beauty and wildlife, we have exceptionally favourable climatic conditions and we have the experience and expert knowledge in our ranks. We are already world pioneers in the establishment of our nature reserves and parks. Our research into matters affecting nature may be compared with the best in the world. In our opinion, this is a golden opportunity for South Africa to make the fullest use of what we can offer the outside world in our common struggle against the damage to nature and wildlife.

I feel instinctively that an international conference on this subject is a worldwide need at this stage and I can hardly think of a better place for such a conference than South Africa. With its considerable reserve of knowledge and experience, Natal could play a leading role in this.

The next matter to which I should like to refer is a question of toll roads in Natal. Natal is increasingly becoming the guinea pig in NP experiments in policy. The first privatised railway line is in Natal. The first joint executive authority of a Black state and a province of the RSA was instituted in this area. The practical application of the toll road policy of the NP-controlled Government once again first become visible in Natal.

The CP has repeatedly warned that the NP is rushing pell-mell into privatisation. Toll roads are an eloquent example of this. The NP tried to sell a privatised toll road system to the people of the country with promises that such a system would relieve the financial burden of taxpayers who were not direct road users. Better and more roads were held out to the transport industry and the public as the envisaged fruits of privatised toll roads.

What is the position now, however? No toll road in South Africa has been privatised yet. The mere erection of tollgates on certain existing roads is already providing so many problems that the Government has obviously taken fright and has shelved, at least temporarily, enabling legislation for the privatisation of toll roads. Toll consortiums will now operate toll roads for the Government as agents. That is what is happening in effect at the moment.

†I emphasise that the Government has temporarily shelved the enabling legislation to privatise toll roads. The toll consortium involved in the toll roads of Natal is administering the local toll roads as an agent of the Government. Notwithstanding all the Government’s promises of envisaged financial and other advantages of the system to road users, we have now learnt of yet another severe disadvantage of the way in which the system is implemented in Natal. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, …

Mr Chairman, on a point of order: The hon member for Umfolozi made an interjection which has repeatedly been ruled in Parliament as unparliamentary. I am referring to the fact that the hon member said that another hon member had distorted words. I request you to direct the hon member to withdraw that, Mr Chairman.

Order! Did the hon member for Umfolozi use such words?

I did, Mr Chairman.

Order! The hon member is to withdraw them.

Mr Chairman, I withdraw them, but may I address you on this point?

Order! I think that the hon member had better accept that the matter is closed now.

Mr Chairman, I find it a pity that the hon member for Roodepoort spoiled an otherwise positive speech somewhat when he started speaking about toll roads. He also fell into the trap in which many people fall, that is to become very emotional about the subject. I believe that this will be dealt with effectively too from this side later.

I should like to associate myself with the very positive comment which he made regarding the work of the Natal Sharks Board and also the Natal Parks Board. This is actually also the subject which I shall get to shortly.

I want to say the following to hon members of the CP, and the scrap of politics which that hon member indulged in as well as other hon members earlier today, just reaffirms this: The CP has nothing to give Natal and nothing to say to Natal.

Hear, hear!

The people of Natal do not need the CP and my advice to those hon members is that they had better return to the Transvaal as soon as possible, perhaps even tomorrow morning, and go to work in their own constituencies, because at the moment the NP is on the warpath in the Transvaal as never before. [Interjections.]

†I must say, when I see that decidedly unhappy group, the bridal party of the to-be-formed Democratic Party, I am sorely tempted to give them some attention. I think I should resist that temptation though and just say that we will be watching the outcome of the leadership contest with great interest, because that will also be a pointer to what will be happening to that party in Natal as time goes by. Perhaps the hon member for Berea could be the chief undertaker at the burial of the PFP on Friday.

Today I would like to deal mainly with the Natal Parks Board, but I would like to preface my remarks by welcoming the new Director, Dr George Hughes, who succeeded Mr John Geddes Page on 1 October 1988. In a short space of time Dr Hughes has clearly shown his ability to build on the foundations laid by his distinguished predecessor, to whom I would also like to pay tribute today. I am convinced that under the dynamic leadership of Dr Hughes the Natal Parks Board is going to continue to grow from strength to strength and reach even greater heights than it has in the past.

In terms of the budget before us today, a grant-in-aid of just over R47 million is proposed for the Natal Parks Board during 1989-90. That is an increase of something like R8 million, and I would like to give my full support to this provision. I only wish it could have been more. I would like to commend the Board for using about 70% of its expenditure for conservation efforts and only about 30% for non-conservation activities. To me this is a clear indication that the Board has in fact got its priorities right and is trying to avoid a top-heavy bureaucracy at the expense of its main objective, namely to act as the official nature conservation authority of Natal. I would also like to welcome the assurances which have been given to the effect that the Board is busy with an intensive evaluation of what one could call its commercial operation, that is its tariff structures and so on. I believe it is necessary for the Board to be seen to be operating in a businesslike and cost-effective fashion within the constraints which necessarily apply to a body whose main aim is conservation, and that is essentially a non-profitable activity.

It is beyond dispute that the pressure on our natural heritage in resources has never been greater than at this moment in our history, particularly in Natal. It was referred to earlier that we know the socio-economic demands of an exploding population in this province are potentially devastating for the natural environment. Any organization devoted to preserving this environment deserves the unqualified support of every South African. Fortunately the expression of public support for nature conservation has never been greater, but one of the challenges facing all who are trying to preserve and protect the environment is to actually translate that expressed public support into practical terms. In this regard the Natal Parks Board on 24 February 1989 took what I regard as a historic step when it launched what it calls its Conservation Trust. The hon the Administrator who officiated at the launch described the formation of the Trust as a milestone, not only for the Board, but also for the Province of Natal and the general cause of nature conservation. He pointed out that it is becoming increasingly difficult for the State to provide all funds needed to develop our game and nature reserves adequately, and to finance essential conservation services.

In outlining the objects of the Trust the Director of the Board, Dr Hughes, has given this assurance which I think is important: The donations will not simply go into a bottomless pit, but will rather go into a ever-increasing capital fund, only the interest of which will be used to ensure the high standards of service of the Board that we have become accustomed to. According to Dr Hughes the main objective of the Trust will be to promote the Board’s educational functions, for example, by way of interpretation and educational centres, publications and equipment for training and even bursaries. All of this simply boils down to one crisp issue, and that is greater awareness of the environment and the need to protect it. We all know that such awareness can only be achieved by education and education related projects.

An initial target of an income of one million people donating R10 each has been set, that is to say R10 million per annum. I believe that this can be achieved if every private citizen and every businessman who cares for the environment is prepared to put his money where his mouth is. I would like to use this forum to appeal to the public to support this Trust generously, and also to the business community to give back something of that which they make from the community. Natal has a wonderful reputation for environmental awareness, and with this Trust it can set an example to the rest of the country.

While on the subject of the environment I would like to refer briefly to a matter which has come to the fore very recently, namely the question of the transportation of hazardous chemicals on the roads of Natal. This is very relevant in Natal in view of the fact that it is alleged that the equivalent of about 10 000 swimming pools of toxic chemicals are transported between Durban and Johannesburg every year. Apart from the very serious implications for the public from a health and safety point of view, one shudders to think what would happen if such a road tanker were to end up in a river or a lagoon in view of the potentially disastrous effects of such an accident on the environment. This applies not only to the N3, but also up and down the entire Natal coast on the N2. I would appeal to the hon MEC responsible for roads to give his personal attention to this matter, and to continue his efforts until the public of Natal is no longer exposed to what is undoubtedly a dangerous and therefore unsatisfactory situation. I am fully aware that the problem is a wider one than affects just this province, but I am sure hon members share my confidence in the hon MEC who, in my view, should be seeing himself also as the protector or the godfather of the road-users in our province. I am sure we will all give him our full support in this regard.

Business suspended at 12h38 and resumed at 14h00.

Afternoon Sitting

Mr Chairman, before we adjourned for lunch the hon member for Umhlanga expressed concern at the fact that the Democratic Party appeared to be without a leader. I merely want to react by saying to him that obviously that concern was born out of experience! After all, that hon member knows what it is like to be in a political party that does not have a leader.

You have three stooges. [Interjections.]

That is not all; it is difficult to be in a party where one has a leader who does not want to step down, and a leader who, on the other hand, wants to go. Nevertheless we appreciate his concern.

Talking about leaders, I must also express my concern that in this very important debate on matters affecting Natal, I find that the leader of the NPP and, in particular, the leader of Solidarity—who happens to be the Chairman of the Ministers’ Council in the House of Delegates—are both absent from these proceedings. Perhaps they do not regard the affairs of Natal to be of such great importance.

They have other important work to do.

I want to begin by endorsing what was said by the hon the Deputy Minister of Population Development when he said that there were very valid reasons why the entire structure of local government, and indeed provincial government, in Natal in particular, needed to be restructured. I want to go along with that; there is no doubt in my mind that valid reasons do not exist in terms of which all people in Natal should not be represented in any local authority in which they are resident.

I think very few of us will disagree when I say that the NP has shed many of the trappings of apartheid, over the past few years in particular. However, an enduring vestige of that system remains. I refer, of course, to the Group Areas Act. I want to say something about that this afternoon. I am sure that the hon MEC for local government and community affairs was very well-meaning and sincere when he made his plea recently that the Group Areas Act should be applied with sensitivity and justice, and urged that it should not become a tool to deprive communities of their rightful access to land for residential and any other legitimate purposes.

Unfortunately I want to tell the hon MEC that the history of the Act has been just the opposite. In my view there is one way and one way only whereby justice could prevail, and that is by the removal of Acts such as the Group Areas Act from the Statute Book. As far as we are concerned, the Group Areas Act is an affront to all persons of colour, and is an ever-present threat to society as a whole. It is my considered view that it cannot and will not endure for any great length of time. Like the related Acts concerning influx control and immorality, it, too, will find its way to the dungheap.

In the meantime the issuing and granting of permits will have to continue if it is to be applied with sensitivity and justice, to quote the hon MEC. I am sorry for the hon MEC, because he will have to grapple with his sense of justice and his sensitivity to apply legislation which was placed on the Statute Book for no other reason than racial prejudice.

Everybody in this Chamber is aware that the Indian community in particular paid dearly for the application of this Act. Therefore it is interesting to note in the report that was presented to us yesterday that only nine out of 39 applications made by Indian people in respect of residential permits to reside in White group areas, were granted. Of the appeals, six out of the eight were approved. It is interesting when we look at the number of applications granted to people who are non-Indians residing in Indian areas. Here I note that all of the people who applied to live in an Indian area were granted those permits. I have no problems with that; I believe that all of our areas should be open, so I have no objection to those permits being granted to people who were non-Indian to reside in an Indian area. My problem is this: Why were only nine out of 39 applications granted to Indians to reside in other areas?

There must have been objections.

I am aware that there must have been objections. The hon MEC has stated that this has to be applied with sensitivity and with justice.

I want to speak now on the provision of hospital services in this province. I want to say that the inequality in the provision of health services in South Africa generally has been a bone of contention for far too long, and has been raised in previous debates in this Chamber as well. Any obsession with racism prevents the optimum utilisation of all our resources for the benefit of all our peoples in this country. It is not enough for our hospitals in particular to be available to all only in the case of emergencies. They should be open to all who need their services all of the time and for whatever reason. It is not acceptable when the department or the Administration says that provincial hospitals generally offer facilities to all population groups and patients, but as far as practically possible, accommodation is provided with due respect to cultural and ethnic wishes. To me this is a euphemism for apartheid. I would like to ask the hon MEC concerned what happens when a White individual goes into a provincial hospital and wishes to be admitted to a Black section of the hospital, or vice versa.

A classic example, in my opinion, of the wanton disregard for the laws of economics and, as I have said, an obsession with racism, is the closing of the Addington Children’s Hospital in 1984 while, at the same time, the paediatric unit and other facilities at King Edward VIII Hospital are severely overcrowded. When one looks at Port Shepstone, a similar picture is presented. We have had reports that the White wing at Port Shepstone Hospital is underutilised, and the fifth floor is lying vacant …

You are out of touch.

… while the Black side is severely overcrowded. I want to know what has happened to the petition which demanded the sharing of resources at this hospital by all races, so that the White wing does not lie empty whilst the Black section is overcrowded. I want to know from the hon MEC what has happened to that petition. Has there been a reaction to that from the Administration?

Whilst I await that reply, I should like to call on the Administration to rectify this ugly situation with more adequate integration of all medical facilities in Natal, and by utilising dormant white elephants in hospital services for the benefit of all our peoples in Natal.

When one looks at Addington Hospital, one finds that there is a dire need for a mixed children’s hospital in that area. My benchmate, the hon member for Durban North, will address this particular problem when he rises to speak this afternoon.

The only point that I want to make here is that every province has recognised the need for a children’s hospital, but Natal appears to lag behind. I would like to know why this is so. Cape Town, for example, has a mixed children’s hospital which is run by the Red Cross. The Johannesburg General Hospital, similarly, has an entire wing which is set aside for this purpose. I believe that it is time that the authorities recognise the medical needs of children, particularly by establishing a children’s hospital in this area. I believe that would relieve the severe pressure on the Edward VIII Hospital.

I am aware that a commission of enquiry, the Steyn Commission of Enquiry, was held in this regard in 1985, but I am also aware that the report of that commission has not been made public. Perhaps somebody could explain to us why that is so. If the stark reply would be that there are no funds available, I would say that that is poppycock. I believe that we have to list our priorities and that the provision of a paediatric hospital in Natal, particularly in the vicinity of Addington Hospital, is a top priority.

I now want to speak about the provision of facilities at Durban beaches. I am aware that it is the policy of the Administration that all facilities and beaches under its control are open for the use of all people, regardless of colour. I am also aware that this Administration is providing funds for the redevelopment and the upgrading of beaches and related amenities in Durban. I am also aware that under the old ordinance control over beaches in Durban in fact was passed to the Durban City Council. However, what worries me is that on the one hand the province provides funds on the basis that the facilities funded should be open to all races and on the other hand there is a suggestion at the present time that some of the beaches of Durban should be tolled. I am not quite sure how far that has developed, but the possibility has been raised by the mayor of Durban that Durban’s egg dance on opening beaches to all races while trying to avoid a White backlash from inland holidaymakers may be solved by the introduction of pay beaches. It seems to me that there are still some people in this country who believe that whenever there is a problem, if people are made to pay, the problem will go away.

Let me tell the people who have raised this idea of paying for the use of beaches that it is both arrogant and dishonest. It is arrogant because neither the sand nor the water belongs to the city council, nor in my view does it belong to any person or institution. It is God-given and God does not charge for the use of his creation. I say that it is dishonest because those who are tempted to make people pay for the pleasure of using the beaches, do so on a racist basis. What they are saying is that if one makes people pay to get on the beaches, those crowds of Blacks will find somewhere else to go so that beaches will be happily multiracial for those who can afford it. The beach and the sea are for everyone, as I have said, and should be shared happily.

I wish to raise the issue of the incorporation of further land to Marburg. I am acutely aware of the criteria by which autonomous local authorities are constituted. Some years ago, the President’s Council laid down, as I understand, five basic criteria in that regard. The most important in my view was the question of viability. Unfortunately, when autonomous local authorities were created for Indian people in Natal, that criterion was never followed. Hence we have had the problems with Isipingo, Umzinto North, Marburg and so on. I am told that a petition was made to the Administration by a delegation in which the argument for the further incorporation of lot 12223 was raised and argued. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is always a pleasure to follow the hon member for Springfield. He of course comes from the best stable represented in this committee this afternoon and I agree with everything he said.

I am grateful for the opportunity of completing some of the comments I made this morning during my first speaking turn. I had been dealing with the total obsession with group and ethnic thinking in South Africa and its by-products, such as the Group Areas Act, the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act and other such legislation. Another disturbing by-product to which I referred this morning is the attitude of certain people to issues such as mixed beaches—with which my hon colleague, the hon member for Springfield has just dealt—contraventions or perceived contraventions of the Group Areas Act, which manifests itself so often in committees these days, vigilante groups being formed, and such things. I believe this is a thoroughly dangerous feature in the life of South Africa at the present time.

I believe there is a great need for people to get a clear perspective of the real issues in South Africa. When I say that I put my friends in the CP fairly high on the list, and I would urge them to do some rethinking and get their perspectives right. I listened to the hon member for Roodepoort this morning when he talked about South Africa’s past. I simply say to him that he must look around him now and see to what state the obsession with race has brought South Africa. We are totally divided, we are a country filled with unrest, and suspicion and hatred abounds in all parts of South Africa. That is a product of group thinking, instead of letting people handle things as individuals and fellow human beings. I believe that if one looks at South Africa with the right perspective and tries to apply this in Natal, one should not look at questions of who swims at the same beach or who lives in one area or another. One must look at the population explosion, the process of urbanisation—with which I dealt this morning—and the situation around Durban, while we are told that in a few years’ time it will be one of the big cities in the world.

There is a great collar of millions of Black people surrounding Durban. Our attention, in Natal in particular, should be devoted to how we are going to deal with the situation. It has been referred to by the hon the Administrator and others. How are we going to cope with this problem which is besetting us at the present time and which will grow in the next ten years or so? It is a problem of enormous and awesome proportions, far more important than who swims on what beach and who does not swim on the beach. What we have to be dealing with is how we are going to provide housing facilities, education, basic health facilities, and employment opportunities for this mass of people who are part of our population. They are part of Natal; they are people. They are not groups; they are people who are part of our community. This really is the perspective we should take when we look at the problems of Natal and the problems of South Africa.

I would hope that this committee in Natal and the Government in South Africa would abandon its obsession with racial, group and ethnic considerations and address these real and challenging issues facing Natal and South Africa.

Having said that, I want to deal with a matter of smaller but fairly intense local interest at the present time, namely the fiasco which has arisen regarding the Mooi River toll road. I am conscious of the fact that the hon member for Mooi River has been in the frontline looking after the interests of his own constituency in regard to this situation. I believe he has done a very good job in this regard and I give him credit for that. However, I understand that in recent times members of the NP, including NP MPs, have shown their concern with regard to this issue in response to the very intense public outcry, particularly from people living in that area.

People can try to achieve all sorts of compromises with regard to this situation. There can be a reduction in toll fees for local residents. That will help and perhaps ameliorate the situation, but if consideration at ministerial level is now being given to the situation which has arisen, what is necessary is not to look at minor compromises but to get back to the whole principle involved in the toll road concept for South Africa. We have to try to define and make plans for the future and establish or re-establish certain guidelines which, in my opinion, have been lost since this concept was first introduced in South Africa.

I was a member of the original select committee on the question of toll roads and after lengthy discussions and meetings my colleague and I, who were on that committee, conditionally approved the principle of tolls for new roads and projects on a limited scale. When the matter subsequently came before Parliament my party actually opposed the legislation on toll roads. I think my party was wise in doing so, because it realised that whatever assurances were being given at that time were not going to be carried out by the Government of the day once the situation had developed.

That was precisely what happened. I want to mention some of the principles on which there was general agreement at that stage. Tolls would only apply to new roads and road projects and not to existing roads. That was fundamental in the discussions at that time. There would always have to be reasonable access to alternative routes to the toll roads. The toll fees would be applied for the maintenance of the particular road for which they were levied.

These were some of the basic principles and I can remember assurances being given in Parliament by the then Minister of Transport, Mr Hendrik Schoeman, to the effect that the concept would not be abused and that the public would not punished, but that this was essential for the development of new roads in South Africa.

The view that this should only apply to new roads in South Africa is widely supported by interested groups. I can, for example, refer to the Federated Chamber of Industries who have expressed themselves on these issues. I can refer to the Transport Consultative Committee representing some 20 influential employer organisations operating to advise the Government on transport matters, who have stated very clearly indeed that if tolls are to be applied effectively in South Africa they must only be applied to new roads, there must be clear alternative routes and there cannot be cross-subsidisation of funds. Yet we are told that the proceeds of the Mooi River toll road are being used to finance the Warden Viviers Road. That was never contemplated when the legislation was first introduced.

I believe that with regard to this issue the Government and those in positions of influence should go back to the drawing board and the basic principles which were discussed and agreed upon when the concept was first introduced in South Africa. The whole problem which has now arisen is that the concept of road tolling has got out of control. If we want to allay public fears it will be necessary for the Government to lay down very definite principles regarding the policy of the tolling of roads in South Africa.

Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure to follow the hon member for Berea but I can assure him that neither am I a horse, nor do I emanate from a stable.

I thank hon members for this opportunity. Before delivering my formal statement I wish to thank my colleague in the Executive Council, Mr Peter Miller, for responding to the reference that was made this morning to the squatter problem in the Greater Pinetown-Mariannhill area and also for addressing the question of some of the constraints under which the province has to operate within the sphere of planning. We are but one of the actors, we have little or no land and we are also strapped for cash.

In this regard it is pleasing to note that a co-ordinating planning committee was established very recently under the chairmanship of the hon the Deputy Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning. It involves the principle players in the province, namely the Departments of Development Aid and Constitutional Development and Planning, the province, the KwaZulu Government and private sector organisations that are interested in the development and upgrading of these communities.

I would like to respond very briefly to the hon member for Brakpan who seems to have been glancing nostalgically into the past days of the provincial council. He leaves me undecided as to whether he is living in the past or walking backwards into the future. Whatever the case may be, he is surely out of touch with the realities of the present. [Interjections.]

Having made those introductory remarks, I wish to get to the more formal statement that I have to present here today. My statement concerns the activities of the physical planning division. Besides the professional and technical advice to the Town and Regional Planning Commission, the Private Townships Board and the Town Planning Appeals Board in carrying out their functions, duties and statutory obligations as required by the Town Planning Ordinance, the physical planning division with a complement of some 90 professional, technical and administrative personnel, has carried out a number of specific tasks during the year.

One of these is the work concerning the regional and sub-regional planning, specifically in the Durban functional region where steps have been taken towards an overall planning policy for the region. A workshop was held from 5 to 7 December 1988 to work out a strategy for tackling the problem. An investigation was carried out into the availability of land for the housing of all population groups in the Durban functional region.

Consultants were appointed to prepare a structure plan for the Greater Mariannhill area, based on a division of land among the various communities which has already been agreed to by the local people. In this regard I must mention that one of the problems bedevilling the situation here is that the proclamation has not yet been finalised.

As far as the Magudu-Ngotshe-Vryheid region is concerned a steering committee was set up and consultants appointed to investigate the problems of revitalising the economy of the region and the settlement of Blacks.

With regard to the Pietermaritzburg metropolitan area the commission has initiated the preparation of a metropolitan structure plan for this region which also embraces the adjacent local authorities of Howick, Hilton, Mt Michael, Ashburton and Plessislaer, together with the KwaZulu areas west of Pietermaritzburg. A technical steering committee has been established to guide a team of planners drawn from the staff of the commission and the city engineer. Work on the formulation of planning proposals is already well advanced.

With regard to catchment planning, surveys of the Upper Tugela, Umfolozi and Lower Pongola—that is in Maputoland—were carried out in collaboration with KwaZulu with a view to halting, if not reversing, the environmental degradation trends in these areas.

A consultant has also been appointed to prepare a structure plan for the Port Shepstone-Marburg sub-region to resolve the outstanding land use problems. The concept of structure plans among local authorities has also been promoted actively. During the year structure plans have been initiated for five local authorities in the province, bringing the total so far to 17. Steering and action committees have also been set up for each of these areas.

As far as town planning advice is concerned, the devolution of this function to local authorities has been actively pursued. During the year the commission has relinquished its advisory services to 25 local authorities on the understanding that such local authorities will either employ their own professional staff or retain the services of private consultants, hence furthering the idea of privatisation.

During the year the urban control section has received, processed and provided professional advice to the Town and Regional Planning Commission on 342 amendments to local authority town planning schemes. The administrative section provides a secretarial service to the Town Planning Appeals Board, while the urban control section provides factual information and professional advice to the board at hearings of appeals. During the year the division has handled 84 such appeals.

The commission conducts most of its research through outside agencies, mainly universities and the CSIR, which it finances out of its annual grant-in-aid. During the year some R608 000 has been spent on this research. Monitoring of progress in, and expenditure on, research projects and guidance to researchers is done through steering committees.

The commission has also initiated an in-house investigation into the criteria and standards for the establishment and location of retirement villages. As far as its library is concerned, it has continued to build its reference library into one of the finest planning libraries in the country. During the year the commission has published ten new publications, as well as four issues of its regular newsletter titled Monitor, bringing its overall tally of research volumes to 104.

As far as the environment and its conservation is concerned, during the year the commission has continued actively to refine the processing of permits for the carrying out of activities for development in the limited area of one kilometre adjacent to the high-water mark. Environmentally sensitive areas have now been identified in all local authority areas on the Natal coast, thereby allowing more authority to be delegated from the Administrator to the local authorities concerned. However, it must be said that there are still too many cases of infringements of the regulations.

With regard to the development and subdivision of land, one of the functions of the Private Townships Board is to furnish advice to the Administrator and the Executive Committee on implications for subdivision of land and development of land without subdivision. The staff of the development subdivision in turn provide professional advice to the Private Townships Board. Because this subdivision has suffered an increase in staff turnover this year, efforts are being made to streamline procedures and to move towards increased computerisation to minimise potential delays.

Mr Chairman, I should like to join in expressing thanks to the hon the Administrator for his hospitality and for the meal this afternoon.

The N3 runs right through the middle of the Klip River constituency. For this reason I should like to make a few remarks about this road, and more specifically about the relevant tollgates.

Before I do so I should like to say, in respect of the N3, that the 100km per hour speed limit which is in force on the road between Mount West and Howick has been an irritation for years now. In Natal we have some of the best roads in the country. This particular road is beautiful, but over a very long distance—I did not measure it, but I would estimate it at between 50 km and 70 km—for no good reason we have a speed limit of 100 km per hour which irritates the motorist and makes it difficult for him to remain a law-abiding citizen, because against the background of his experience and ability as a driver he can immediately see it is an absurd restriction. This results in law-abiding citizens being tempted to break the law. I should like to make a strong plea to the authorities to remove this speed limit.

I listened to what the hon members for Berea and Mooi River said about the tollgate at Mooi Plaza, and I agree with them. I am not certain to what extent there was an undertaking that tollgates would never be erected on existing roads. I had a look in Hansard at the speeches of that period and could not trace a single reference to such an undertaking. It is, however possible that the undertaking was given informally and was somehow made public. I do not want to question that, but I should just like to establish the true source of this undertaking before I accept it. I do not deny that this is a widely held perception. If that undertaking was given, and is no longer being honoured, it is our duty to review the whole matter.

I also agree that if the revenue from a toll-gate were utilized to make a capital investment elsewhere, that principle should be debated again. I understand that no one denies that the relatively high tariff at Mooi Plaza is a financial model intended to finance the construction and maintenance of the road from Keversfontein to the Transvaal. If this is the case—and I cannot be sure it is—the whole matter will have to be debated again and reconsidered.

I have a great deal of sympathy with those who live near the tollgate at Mooi River and I would be pleased to give statistics in this regard. I am grateful to the Department of Transport which collected these statistics at my request and made them available to me.

It is interesting to note that the further people live from the tollgate, the more regularly they use it. For example, the toll road is used by 75% of the traffic from the Transvaal and the Free State—those people live far from the tollgate—while only 25% of the traffic uses the alternative route.

When we come to a place that is closer, for example Bergville, we find that 71% of Bergville’s traffic uses the toll road. The remaining 29% use the alternative route. When one comes to a place even closer to the tollroad, such as Ladysmith, one finds that the percentage of people using the toll road falls dramatically, because 58% of the people from Ladysmith use the toll road and 42% use the alternative route.

In the case of Estcourt itself the people live very close to the gate and have to use it often because their central business district is in Pietermaritzburg or in Durban. It is therefore a daily burden on the motorists from Estcourt. Statistics show that on 22 March—that was when this information was obtained—27% of the people from Estcourt used the toll road and 73% used the alternative route.

The figures show how unfair this is to the people who live near the tollgate. Therefore something positive must be done to revise the entire plan and, if necessary, to give assistance to the people in that area.

It is interesting to see that only 4,2% of the traffic at Mooi River Plaza consists of people who live within a radius of 150 km. Therefore if the Government were to pay a subsidy of only 4,2% of Tollgate’s turnover, Tollgate would lose nothing and all the people in that area would receive the necessary assistance.

I want to come back to what was said earlier in this debate. I listened to what the hon member for Brakpan said when he spoke about democracy. Hon members of the Official Opposition talk as though their policy satisfies the principles of democracy. For example, they would give the vote to 10 million people in terms of a linkage policy, but surely we know that a linkage policy essentially means that those people would have no political rights.

I am not the only one who says so. I am not the only one who says that a linkage policy gives no political rights to those 10 million people. 10 million Black people live in the so-called White CP area. The hon member for Ermelo and the hon member for Bethal, who are both senior advocates and who have jointly written a book say themselves that the linkage policy is a gimmick. They say themselves say that the franchise the CP offers those 10 million people is worthless.

When the hon member for Brakpan gets up here, however, he talks as though he is a great democrat. But it is surely quite absurd to talk as though one were a democrat when one is actually excluding 10 million people from the political process.

Mr Chairman, is the hon member prepared to answer a question?

Certainly. My remaining time is so short that the hon member may go ahead and ask his question.

The hon member gave his opinion on the CP’s policy in regard to democracy. Does the hon member believe that the NP is democratic and has a democratic policy? [Interjections.]

Within the concept of power-sharing which we advocate, and since we recognise the temporary nature of this transitional process and are committed to broadening the base of democracy, we are on the way to satisfying this principle to a far greater extent than, for example, the hon members I am talking about. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I should like to join the previous speakers in congratulating the hon member for South Coast on his appointment as chairman of this committee. However, that is where my link-up with these hon members ends.

During the past few hours I have listened to various speakers and various political and other points of departure. An aspect which struck me is that as far as the RSA is concerned, there is a long way to go before we realise that although we consist of various communities, we all share one fatherland and must be loyal to this fatherland. I listened to speeches which are not conducive to good relations. On the other hand I also listened to speeches which give one hope for the future.

However, at this stage I want to concentrate on Vote No 3, which deals with roads. Something that worries me greatly is the fact that the roads in Natal are deteriorating at a tremendous rate. If we bear in mind that Natal, particularly Durban and the South Coast, is one of the areas in the country most frequently visited by holidaymakers, particularly from the Free State and the Transvaal, it is important that the roads in this holiday area should be kept in good condition. The province’s roads should be among the best in the country.

It also worries me that the answers given by the hon members of the Executive Committee, and in particular the hon member entrusted with roads, do not really satisfy me. Nor are they answers which would satisfy the public of Natal.

The question put by the hon member for Umhlatuzana, Dr P J Steenkamp, reads:

The answer that was given is very long and does not mean a thing. Eventually it amounts to the fact that there are not enough funds. I would however, for the sake of interest, like to quote the answer here:

1. (1) Die hergruising wat jaarliks uitgevoer word, is veel minder as die gruis wat as gevolg van verkeer, wind en watererosie verlore gaan.

Nature is being blamed for this. I quote further:

1. (2) Die getal swaar voertuie wat van gruispaaie gebruik maak, het aansienlik toegeneem sedert die vervoer van suikerriet, steenkool en hout van spoorna padvervoer verplaas is.
2. (3) Die swak gehalte van beskikbare gruis in sekere gebiede.

This is totally unacceptable. It is unacceptable to the public of Natal and to the community as a whole. Those answers are merely written down on paper to placate people. I am convinced that more positive steps could be taken and that more funds could be obtained. Because those roads are used for the transportation of sugar cane, they are a source of revenue and should therefore be kept in better condition. We are all aware of the tremendous floods which hit Natal and other provinces, but the province’s responsibility to keep its roads in an acceptable condition should not be concealed by the fact of those floods.

It is also regrettable that the answer to a question put by the hon member for Durban Point about the construction of new roads was equally unacceptable. I am now referring to the over-taxing of the axle mass of certain lorries and the increase in traffic. It is vital for the R120 million needed to supplement the shortage in the 1989-90 financial year, to be obtained so that the necessary work can be done to the road network.

I do not want to let the opportunity pass without also referring to the Group Areas Act. At present the Government is making a song and dance about the fact that free settlement areas will be the answer for future residential areas.

However, I want to say that the party I belong to—and the policy I advocate—completely rejects these free settlement areas.

The only solution to the residential crisis, and the only way to give people the right to live where they want to, is to delete the Group Areas Act from the Statute Books once and for all. Only then will people be free to live where they want to and can afford to. Without the abolition of this Act, free settlement areas would mean nothing to us. I do not agree with the hon member for Daljosaphat that this is the beginning of the abolition of the Group Areas Act. Free settlement areas would mean nothing to us.

This brings me inevitably to the policy of the CP on partition. Last year in the same Chamber I said—and I want to repeat it today—that the policy of partition was rejected by the so-called Coloured people, Indian people, Black people and by a significant majority of the Whites. Partition is in no way acceptable to these people to whom I have just referred. It will never succeed in South Africa, and the same is true of the so-called White “volkstate” so often referred to in the media these days.

Let us have a look at what the people say about White “volkstate”. Let us have a look at the comments made by people such as the Oranjewerkers, the comments of the AWB about where they want a “volkstaat” and the comments of a person such as Prof Carel Boshoff about a “volkstaat” and a hinterland in South West Africa. He now wants another part of South West Africa for his homeland, and this when the country is almost independent. [Interjections.] It is utter madness. Where does he get such absolute nonsense from? Although these ideas are unadulterated wishful thinking, they have no right to exist either.

We should very clearly indicate to one another that there is only one solution in this country, and that is a geographic federal system, and this is also the policy of the Labour Party. This party stands with its feet on the ground and knows what it wants for South Africa and for its people. We are not dreaming. We are not a group of people coming together to exchange ideas. We have made a well-considered examination of the full implications of a new Constitution for South Africa. The only Constitution which will succeed for the people of South Africa, namely the Whites and all the other peoples here, is a geographic federal system.

The hon the leader of the party I represent has stated, on various occasions, that we shall not deviate from the standpoint that the Group Areas Act as a whole must be deleted from the Statute Book. We stand by this, irrespective of what other people have to say.

Furthermore I should like to refer to questions put by members of the Joint Committee. I quote from page 70 of the book containing the questions and replies. The hon member Mr Derby-Lewis asked the following question:

They then give a whole list of figures relating to the applications. I want to say that all these things such as group areas and applications for permits will have to disappear. Until people in South Africa come to their senses about the group element, today and in the future we shall have to stand or fall by the principle that every one of us belongs in South Africa and will die here.

Mr Chairman, at the outset I would like to refer to a subject which was raised yesterday regarding the questions that the hon members put to the hon members of the Executive Committee for their reply. I would like to place on record my thanks to the hon the Administrator, the hon members of the Executive Committee, the heads of the departments and their staff for working right through the Easter holidays to prepare these questions and answers for us.

I want to plead here this afternoon that we should not repeat this next year. I think we have to try to find some kind of system whereby we can obtain answers to the written questions of hon members in a more orderly manner. I would like to suggest that Exco together with the Parliamentary secretariat devise a system whereby we as MPs can put these questions addressed to the hon the Administrator for reply in Parliament during the months soon after Parliament starts and leading up to our budget discussions in the various provinces. [Interjections.] Hon members must please bear with me. If one goes through this budget the items are exactly the same and most of the problems are exactly the same. There is therefore a tremendous amount of repetition. More details can be obtained through questions. If hon members would use their grey matter a bit they might succeed in it. The rest of the time can be used to deal with it clause by clause in greater detail and in public—as opposed to what we did yesterday. I cannot see why what we discussed yesterday cannot be done in public. There is nothing secretive about it.

I would like to come to a more serious matter and that is the question of the salaries of student nurses. I have a big training hospital in my constituency and that is one particular reason why I raise the matter.

In 1986 a four-year course for student nurses was introduced as opposed to the previous course which lasted three years. After this course nurses could specialise for one year in midwifery, general community health or psychiatry. This four-year course includes all of that, namely general nursing, midwifery, community health and psychiatry.

I would like to quote some figures regarding their salaries. I would like to give an example of a third-year student who earns R650,75 per month. I do not want to go through all the deductions but they include pension, UIF, PAYE, R200 for board and lodging, medical aid, tuition fees and books. I have added R20 for books, which I think is reasonable because medical books are fairly expensive. This third-year nursing student ends up with R272 in her pocket and I think that this is totally inadequate.

I shall give another example. A first-year student earns R584 a month, in round figures, and a fourth-year student earns R687. This is more than a R100 increase over a four-year period. We know what the inflation rate is like every year. If it is 15% we are looking at 60% inflation over a four-year period. I want to appeal to the hon members of the Executive Committee to make urgent representations to the commission to have these salary scales reviewed.

Another point I would like to raise is the drop in the number of students coming forward to take up nursing as a career. In 1986, when this course was started, 183 students applied. In 1987, 172 applied. In 1988 this dropped to 153. What is the problem? I see two factors. I believe the first one is the poor salary. The salary is not attractive enough and there are more jobs in the outside world to which they can go. If, however, one is dedicated and loves nursing, what can one do?

The second problem is the training course. I believe that the training course is too long. Not all nurses want to do the three-plus-one course, as it used to be. They do a three-year course and stay general nurses. Those who want to specialise go on to do the one-year course in midwifery, psychiatry or community health. Now even those who do not want to study further end up studying for four years. I believe, therefore, that we should look at these two factors. I am not qualified to speak about it but I do believe we should particularly take a closer look at the question of reverting to the three-plus-one course for nurses.

Another question which I would like to raise here this afternoon and which is very important—it links up with what has already been said here earlier today—concerns the 1,7 million people who live on the outskirts of Durban. I would like to show how many Blacks are served by the hospital services of the Natal Provincial Administration, outside of its area of jurisdiction. I would briefly like to give hon members some figures. In 1979 the figure for admissions was 389 000. In 1988 this crept up to 478 000, of which people from Transkei and KwaZulu comprised approximately 39,80%.

The situation at out-patients is ten times worse. We are looking at a figure of approximately 3 475 000 Blacks who were treated in the hospitals, of whom 878 467 or 25,28% were from Transkei, KwaZulu, Swaziland and Lesotho. What does it cost the administration to serve these people who are in dire need of decent medical treatment? In the coming year it will cost this Provincial Administration R257,6 million. This is an unbelievable amount of money that could have been spent on developing our new teaching hospital, for example, and various other hospitals. The R K Khan Hospital is screaming for funds in order to provide more facilities and these could be given but we are serving Black patients from other areas.

I think the time has come when we should look to Transkei and tell them to start paying for the patients we treat for them. They are coming across the border in busloads. They are not coming across the border to the hospitals for treatment in single file but in busloads. I sincerely hope—I believe the Executive Committee has taken it up with the hon Ministers responsible—that we, as a responsible committee and an extension of Parliament, should support the Executive Committee at every possible level in order to address this problem to the hon the Minister and see how we can solve this problem. By doing this we can bring better money to Natal for its health services, and in doing so, serve the community.

Mr Chairman, on following the hon member for Durban Point I have to agree that he quite rightly raised the problem of the inadequate pay for nurses. I do, however, think the problem in South Africa is that we have separate health facilities which compounds the problems we have. I believe that the sooner we have nursing opened to people of all races, the sooner we shall solve the problems of our medical services.

Why do you perpetuate it?

I am not perpetuating separate nursing facilities in this country. It is as much the Government of the hon member for Reservoir Hills as it is my Government. That Government is not only my Government, it is our Government—his as well.

You are part of the Government!

I want to talk about the delegation of power. This devolution of power at local government level is a very topical issue.

I believe we have a problem in our local governments. We have a measure of togetherness at central Government level, we have MECs of colour serving in second-tier government but this is a perpetual problem in our local government where we have been saddled for ever so long with an advisory system of government.

I believe that as long as this advisory system of government remains at local level, no powers should be devolved to local authorities. I say this for a reason. The reason is that if these powers are devolved now they will not be devolved to all the leaders at local government level. They will be devolved for the good and the use of the White local authorities, by and large, except for the few Indian local authorities. I believe, therefore, that as long as there is this system in our local government, power should not be devolved at all. I repeat that these powers will not be shared by members of the local affairs committees. They will only be for the use of members of the White local authorities.

The delegation of power has also been discussed. Recently the MEC in charge of local government, Mr Miller, arranged to meet with members of the Coloured local affairs committees in Natal in order to discuss the question of the delegation of power. When one looks at the 106 powers which are available, one sees that they do not take the delegation any further in real terms.

We feel, and we have been of this view for as long as I can remember, that the only way to resolve the problem of local government is that we should have direct participation for all the peoples of this country at all tiers of government—not only at local government level, but also at central government level.

We have the exclusion of the Blacks and this is an area of concern. They have a measure of involvement at second tier government, but I too feel that it is time that we have a Black MEC to represent the Black people at provincial level, especially in Natal. I cannot understand why we do not have a Black MEC to represent the many millions of Black people outside KwaZulu in Natal. In the Cape we have a Black MEC. In the Transvaal we have a Black MEC. To this end I have not just left this matter lying there. I have written to the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning because I wanted to draw his attention to this anomaly that exists in that Black people are not represented. It is very difficult for us to stand at all these forums and talk about the problems regarding informal housing and other aspects which concern the Black people.

When one walks out of this Chamber and goes out into Church Street, one will find that there are construction firms busy working there. What does one see? One sees a preponderance of Black faces. However, when one looks at who are here in this Chamber, one finds that they are excluded. As one hon member said earlier on in the debate, this is unreal. One does not have the people of South Africa represented at these forums. The sooner the problem of the MEC is resolved, the better. I believe that there have been some interviews in recent times. I received this news through the grapevine. I hope it is true that some members of the Black community have, in fact, been interviewed for this position. If this is so, I want to say that it is about time that this vacancy was filled.

There is the problem of litter which I briefly want to touch on. On page 12 of the Annual Report for 1987-88 mention is made of the prevention of environmental pollution, but I am seriously concerned about the increasing problem of litter that we are facing in the country. This problem of litter is also addressed in the Estimates where an amount of R1 000 was allocated for the “Keep South Africa Tidy” campaign. Whilst I appreciate the allocation of this amount, I think there should be an allocation to complement the prevention of environmental pollution. I believe that the officers who are involved in the prevention of environmental pollution, should also through the local authorities take under their wing an educational programme aimed at people who are contributing to the escalation of litter throughout the country. This problem is clearly noticeable at places where people congregate, places such as bus ranks and stations.

I can mention two areas where this problem has manifested itself. I have taken some photographs which are really frightening. One Saturday afternoon I was at the plaza in Ladysmith where I saw cardboard, cold drink bottles and plastic 30 centimeters deep. I believe that the organisers of the “Keep Durban Beautiful” campaign have appointed an educational officer who goes out into the areas where people commute from. They are involved in a programme aimed at educating people. It is now time for the Provincial Administration to involve themselves in this aspect of litter control. There is not any point in just having the beaches and our front gardens litter-free while our backyards and side streets are so littered.

I want to say a few things about library services. On page 13 of the annual report for 1987-88 there is a remark, and I quote:

This is all very well, but unfortunately the Provincial Library Services are subsidising apartheid libraries. Take the White library at Ladysmith as an example. This library is adjacent to the Town Hall. I have continually been talking about the fact that my people are precluded from using the facilities at the Ladysmith library, because only White people may use that library. For how long will we carry on with this? I believe that this Provincial Administration should do something about this. I do not believe that they ought to subsidise libraries which are for the use of any one particular race group. This also applies to libraries in Indian or Coloured areas. All these libraries ought to be open to all race groups. I think that, notwithstanding the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act, it is within the power of the province to see to it that these libraries are open to all race groups.

I now come to civil defence. On page 9 of the Annual Report for 1988-89 mention is made of civil defence. I am appreciative of that which civil defence has done during the recent floods in Ladysmith. In Ladysmith, particularly, they have acquired a new boat which they use to rescue people who are in danger of drowning. This is very laudable and I want to say that I am thankful for that. However, there is another side of the coin as far as civil defence is concerned. When they take the people away from their homes, there is no measure of protection for the people’s property in the homes which they have vacated.

I telephoned the station commander in view of my experience in 1987 when there was large-scale looting of vacated homes. I was told that the commandos would protect the properties. If the commandos and the police are not sufficient, we should have the army protecting the properties of people. In view of past experiences people are reluctant to leave their homes. In February and September 1987 there was looting on a grand scale. In February 1989, when the water level rose in the plaza, there were hordes of looters who broke shop windows and looted these premises. They helped themselves to household goods, while television and video sets were removed from people’s homes.

I mention this for the reason that I link it with civil defence. I believe that civil defence should be so structured as also to protect properties. If they cannot do it, I believe it is their duty to see to it that other people who are equipped to protect people’s properties are involved through the civil defence.

I want to turn to hospital services. I was surprised to learn yesterday that there is no hospital board in Ladysmith. I understood that there was a board some years ago. If there is no board now, the board must have been disbanded. I cannot understand what the reason for this is, but I want to appeal to the MEC in charge of hospital services to do everything in his power to see that a board is in fact established for the Ladysmith Hospital.

There is another area of concern in Ladysmith which should also receive attention. I know that we have been talking about a lack of funds, but when lives are concerned, funds should be found to protect the lives of people. I am talking specifically about an intensive care unit. Although at Ladysmith we have a building structure where an intensive care unit may be established, I understand that as a result of a lack of funds, such a unit has not yet been established. I think this is something which should receive the active attention of the MEC.

I regret that I have to place on record a personal problem I have with the MEC.

Order! I have a problem in that unfortunately the hon the Deputy Minister’s time has expired.

The MEC has been let off the hook, Mr Chairman.

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Springfield spoke about the need for a non-racial children’s hospital. I want to elaborate on this theme to some extent, but concentrate on the facility in Durban which already exists for such a hospital. I notice with interest in the question-reply booklet which was handed out today, containing questions put to the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee, one question in particular asked by the hon member for Pinetown, with regard to whether there is any intention of reopening the Children’s Hospital in Durban. The answer was given that it is not the case and that the hospital is not to be reopened. The reasons given are, and I quote:

I want to spend some time talking about the tragedy of the closure of the Children’s Hospital in Durban. This very fine old hospital was closed in 1984 after serving the children of Durban for some 53 years. There have obviously been—and the hon the Administrator knows this—many appeals since then for the province to reopen that hospital, but to date these requests have not been met.

In fact in 1985 a commission, the Stein Commission, was appointed by the hon the Administrator of Natal to investigate the hospital. The report arising from this commission was never made public and any attempt to obtain a copy thereof has been blocked by the Natal Executive Committee’s decision taken in 1985 not to make that report available to the public. I was told this when I wrote to the hon the Administrator last year asking for a copy of that report. It does intrigue me as to why that report is not available. I know that it came out strongly in favour of the restoration and reopening of the Children’s Hospital to provide a full and comprehensive service for children, but the Executive Committee has not acted on the recommendations of that commission and today the hospital stands virtually empty. It does of course still handle the children’s out-patient section and a nursery school is attached, but otherwise it is an empty building, and some have described it—and I must repeat this—as the biggest pigeon loft in Natal. I believe this situation is in fact tragic.

I again want to make an appeal to the Executive Committee to reopen the Children’s Hospital. No doubt—and we have all heard it during the course of today—the expense involved in renovating and building is now a major factor, but I believe the arguments in favour of reopening that hospital are so good that the money simply must be found. The hon the Administrator has heard on many occasions today that money has to be found, but certainly we have to accept that health services are of crucial importance. I have in fact heard that there are organisations which are prepared to make very generous donations towards the renovation and reopening of this hospital, and I am making my plea to the hon the Administrator to reopen this hospital.

I need to tell hon members present—not that there are many hon members left here at the moment—some of the details regarding this historic old building. In 1922, following a proposal by the late councillor, Mrs Mary Siedle, the Durban City Council appointed a committee to investigate the possibility of building a hospital specifically for children in Durban. The recommendations of this committee resulted in a decision to build a children’s hospital, and I note with interest that that committee’s recommendation was accepted, unlike that of the Stein Commission. An agreement was reached that the council and the NPA would each provide £14 000 towards the project and the remaining £14 000 would be raised by the citizens of Durban. Mrs Siedle and her committee undertook the task and so good was the public support of her cause that the project in fact raised £27 000. I would say that this is perhaps the outstanding example of the community’s endeavour in the city’s history. To this day in the vestibule of that old hospital there is a tablet which reads as follows, and I quote:

That tablet, I believe, speaks for itself. Again one must therefore question the morality of the decision to close the hospital so many years later. That hospital was provided by the people of Durban for the people of Durban.

We take it further. Throughout the hospital we find many items of valuable and historic art work. Over every place where once a cot or bed stood is a ceramic plaque indicating the donor, the first ceramics, as a matter of interest, ever fired in the Cullinan kiln at Olifantsfontein. Over the portico is a magnificent frieze depicting Jesus Christ with children. One of the wards on the ground floor is a First World War memorial commemorating the Lucan brigade. These are just some things denoting the historic and sentimental value of that old building. It is of sentimental value to the people of Durban. There is so much history and sentimentality attached to it that it in fact deepens the tragedy of closing the hospital.

But we have to accept—and of course I do as well—that there is a far more important aspect to this hospital, namely the outstanding service it has been able to render to the children of Durban over many, many years.

In 1984 Dr Mann, a visiting lecturer in paediatrics from the University of Manchester and a man who visited children’s hospitals all over the world, said that of all the hospitals he had seen Durban’s Children’s Hospital was the most charming, with the most special atmosphere. If we look at it carefully, we have to accept that the design is ideal for its purpose, namely the nursing of sick children. We know that the wards are spacious, they have enclosed verandas, there is a large playroom on both floors and two of the ground floor wards have direct access to the lawns and play area on the beach side of the building. This access to the lawns and playgrounds has over many years proved to be vital in the treatment and welfare of many of the child patients. For example, diabetic patients were often allowed to bring their own bicycles so that their efforts under normal circumstances could be watched and stabilised. Also, asthmatic patients were encouraged to go outside so that they could be observed in the open air. We all know and accept that sunshine and fresh air are vital components, especially in the recuperation of young children.

This hospital has provided outstanding service to many children, but in 1984—and I stress the point—the decision was taken to close the Children’s Hospital and apparently, by doing so, the nursing staff at this hospital could be transferred to the main Addington Hospital where a shortage of nursing staff existed at the time.

If this is the only reason—I have been unable to find other reasons—it compounds the tragedy of the decision and certainly adds fuel to the fire of frustration that is burning very deeply in the minds of a number of people with regard to the fact that the Executive Committee chose not to disclose the Stein Commission report or accept its recommendations.

The Children’s Hospital, as it was, was able to house all medical and health facilities under one roof. It had cots or beds for more than 70 in-patients, an operating theatre, offices for social workers, physiotherapy and occupational therapy facilities and departmental offices. It had teaching facilities. It had a neonatal section and an X-ray department and, of course, the out-patients section. All this was housed under one roof—a perfect situation for the care of children.

The basic structure for all that still exists, but it is now a derelict building. Today, what do we find with regard to health services and hospital services for children? We find a very, very different situation. The out-patients section is all that remains in the old building, with many of the facilities closed down completely and the children’s wards having been transferred to the 13th floor of the main Addington Hospital.

There is so much wrong with this decision. To split the out-patients and the in-patients sections so severely is totally inexpedient. Let me mention one small example. Mothers taking their children to the out-patients section have to go back to the main hospital to obtain medicines, while the medical staff have to walk—this is a second example—to and from the 13th floor of the Addington Hospital repeatedly during the day to the out-patients section in the old children’s hospital. It is a walk—I have done it myself—in excess of 20 minutes. How can one in all honesty expect highly educated and skilled doctors and nurses to do this constantly during the normal course of their working day? It is time-wasting, it is impractical and it is unacceptable. I can assure hon members that the doctors and nurses despise the situation as it exists.

Anyone who has visited the main Addington Hospital knows of the extremely poor lift service there. I would certainly ask the Administrator and his Executive Committee to look again at this particular point. The lift service in the Addington Hospital is absolutely disgusting. One is quite likely to wait ten minutes to catch a lift either up or down. Sick children are expected to wait for these lifts which, of course, because of the poor service they offer, are always overcrowded. I know—I have heard this from many people—that this is traumatic for them.

Furthermore, now that these child patients are on the 13th floor, they no longer have access to the playground, which, as I indicated earlier, is of such importance in a child’s recuperation and therapy. I heard the case, for example, of a child who had been an in-patient for some time and who, when he was eventually taken down the lift and onto the grass outside after several months in hospital, cried when he felt the grass under his feet because he did not know what it was and did not understand the sensation under his feet.

That kind of thing speaks of the tragedy of the hospital being transferred to an upper floor of a multistorey building. I repeat that I have visited the 13th floor of the Addington Hospital. There are recuperating children playing ball games in the corridors and others sitting on the floor in the wards playing with various toys. They make a noise, as children do when they are playing, but unfortunately right next to them there are very, very sick children lying in their beds. There is no separation of children who are recuperating and children who are very ill.

I must ask again why the Stein report was not made public. Why did the Executive Committee, having commissioned the report in the first place, then not follow its recommendations? I repeat that I know that the report came out in favour of reopening the hospital, but this has not happened. The building has become neglected, and it has now fallen into a state of some disrepair. With every year that it is left like that, the renovation will obviously become more expensive.

I want to quote very briefly from a report on the situation from the organisation known as A Future for Durban’s Past. This particular organisation concerns itself with, among other things, the restoration and protection of historic buildings in Durban. The conclusion to its report reads as follows:

I believe that there is every reason for the Executive Committee to reconsider the position with regard to this hospital. There are historic, emotional and certainly very important functional reasons why that hospital needs to be reopened.

Why are you making it more emotional?

This particular situation falls in that hon member’s constituency. I thought that he might have been concerned about this kind of thing.

I am!

It certainly does not sound as if he is.

[Inaudible.]

There is a critical shortage of hospital space in Durban. There is urgent need for a new hospital. There is talk of a new academic hospital in Durban being built at some stage, but at this stage we have the Addington Hospital operating at about a 60% occupancy rate and we have another hospital, the children’s hospital, standing empty. How does the province justify empty hospital space when some of the hospitals—the King Edward, for example—are overflowing? I call upon the province and the Administrator very sincerely to consider reopening the children’s hospital not only to provide proper facilities for the care of all the children of Durban, but also to help in alleviating the very, very crowded conditions we find in so many of our hospitals.

Mr Chairman, it is a great pleasure to take part in this debate once again. I think this kind of debate, where the Executive Committee of Natal has to give account of the management of the administrative expenditure to the elected members of Parliament, chiefly from Natal—there are a few from outside Natal—is of the utmost importance to us. The Executive Committee is correctly referred to as consisting of nominated members, but most of us have made a considerable contribution to public life and it is not as if we have only been placed here without having a reasonable background knowledge of public life.

Is that democracy?

The current position of the Executive Committee is a state of transition; it is not the final structure, and the hon member for Brakpan is well aware of that. [Interjections.] I only wish I had the time to go into the matter properly, then I would be able to debate it more comprehensively.

As the situation is at the moment, there are certain matters to which I have to react specifically and I shall have another opportunity later. For the moment I should like to react to specific matters only.

†It has become almost a refrain that because of the shortage of money, we cannot give effect to many services. That is correct. We do have a shortage of money. We would like to be able to do much more than we are doing at the moment, but I think it is important that whereas each one of us has an urgent need for greater funds to be able to carry out a programme, one should not run away with the idea that we are the only ones that need more money and that money can just be had for the asking.

There is a total cake that is available in terms of public money, and it is important that one should realise that in the circumstances in which South Africa finds itself at the moment we must make do with what we have. We must try to manage with what is available, and what can be made available must be put to the best possible use. Money does not grow on trees. The situation is that the Treasury has now tried to establish a macro-allocation on the basis of a need determination for all the respective departments to try to bring in financial discipline for this country.

In general terms, I think that considering the fact that South Africa has in the past few years become a capital export country instead of a capital import country, because we are a developing country, South Africa is doing remarkably well on the limited funds available. I must merely caution that we must not run away with the idea that all we have to do is pull the string and the money will come rolling in. What is important is that we must try to make do with the money that can be made available. What we should do, each and every one of us in the private and in the public sectors, is strive for an improvement in the quality of life through higher productivity and through planned and well-structured economies.

Let me say at this stage, however, that I am extremely concerned about one thing, and that is the obviously increasing trend of corruption and suspect get-rich-quick methods among people in public office, in public administration, and in the private sector. I am extremely concerned about this and I think the whole population has reason to be concerned too.

As recently as this morning we heard the news of another massive fraud transaction, which involved some R50 million, concerning certain banks in South Africa. [Interjections.] This happened in the public sector, I agree, but it is equally prevalent in the private sector, and I do not wish to exclude anyone in expressing my concern at this trend.

May I, in this regard, have the ear of the hon member Mr Derby-Lewis? [Interjections.] I have in front of me a Press report …

That is dangerous!

Don’t believe everything you read in newspapers!

May I get a word in, Sir? I would like to have the hon member’s ear, but he must let me get a word in. [Interjections.] On 16 March the hon member addressed a meeting in the Durban City Hall. He needed the city hall because the other halls were too small, and then he got 300 people. [Interjections.] This is a Sapa report. If it is incorrect, he must tell me so and make a public statement to that effect.

I will make a public statement.

According to the report, however, he made a public statement to the following effect:

That is not correct.

If that is not correct, I would appreciate it if the hon member could specifically rectify the report, because I believe that if a statement had been made that corruption was inherent in the administration of Natal, it would be a shocking allegation. [Interjections.]

There is another matter that I would like to deal with. The hon member for Stanger mentioned an issue which I would like to put in the correct perspective. He read a letter which had been faxed to him by Mr A Bozas, the chairman of the Stanger hospital board, and he used certain statistics in public debate here. I do not know for what purpose he tried to use them, but he brought them into the context of an insinuation that information given to Parliament by the Natal Provincial Administration in reply to a question had been false. He read from a private letter, one not meant for publication unless the hon member meant it to be published, that in our reply to Parliament—this is part of Parliament—we gave false information as to the number of posts occupied and/or vacant at the Stanger hospital. [Interjections.] He indicated that the reply was a false reply.

The question was: “Are there any vacancies for medical posts and, if so, in what hospitals?” No mention was made of Stanger. He read from this letter that only ten medical posts were filled at Stanger. The facts of the situation are that Stanger has been officially allocated 17 medical posts and that on 25 March, when that reply was formulated, 14 of those posts—I have every single name available here—were filled by full-time doctors. Three posts were filled by session doctors, one of them fully filled by four doctors, another partially filled by two and another partially filled by three. Two session posts were therefore partially filled, but every single post had doctors available to fill those posts, and I have the names of each and every one here.

I would like that information.

I can give the hon member that information in writing. Of the 14 full-time posts that were occupied on 25 March, one became vacant on 1 April but has since been filled on a session basis to the extent of 20 out of 40 sessions. Consequently, the position at the Stanger hospital is not as critical as the hon member tried to make out.

Tell me another story please!

What is more important is that he misquoted certain statistics, ostensibly from somebody else’s letter, and tried to create the impression that our administration gives false information to Parliament.

[Inaudible.]

I have that letter here.

No, another letter.

He created the impression that we give false information to Parliament.

I will deal with that in my reply.

There was certainly no false information because I have all the facts at my disposal. Let me give a certain perspective to this matter. The Stanger hospital has a total of 517 beds. Its average bed occupancy is 76,17%, according to the latest statistics. There are 17 medical posts, of which each and every one is filled, albeit some partially through session posts. The ratio of beds to doctors is 26:1. The cost per patient day is about R96 and the income per patient day is only R6.

Let us look at the situation at some comparable hospitals. Eshowe has 485 beds, an 85% occupancy rate, 14 medical posts, a bed to doctor ratio of 32:1, a cost per patient day of R93 and a cost recovery of R9,50. Port Shepstone has 402 beds, an occupancy rate of 75%, 14 medical posts, a bed to doctor ratio of 27:1, a cost of R82 per patient day and a cost recovery of R4,65. G J Crookes has 411 beds, an 82% bed occupancy rate with 12 medical posts, a bed to doctor ratio of 29:1, a cost of R85 per patient day and a R6 cost recovery.

The position at the Stanger hospital is therefore very much in line with that at other similarly placed hospitals, and to try to create an emotional situation and bring the province into disrepute is just not a fair way to deal with this matter on the part of an hon member who is reputed to be responsible.

I will still deal with that.

There is another matter. He raised the issue of double standards in the filling of posts of Indian trained doctors. He referred to a certain doctor who had not been accepted for the Stanger Hospital, not by us, but by the South African Medical and Dental Council. This doctor was subsequently accepted for a KwaZulu or Qwaqwa hospital. The hon member in effect accuses the South African Medical and Dental Council of double standards.

In our discussion that we had with the South African Medical and Dental Council we were told that there are certain required standards to give doctors limited or restricted registration. However, they are prepared to make exceptions where there is an exceptional need. I do not know what the reasons were for the South African Medical and Dental Council to take those decisions, but in this particular case and on the grounds of the normal norms required by the council, that particular person’s application was not approved for the Natal situation. However, when a special need was given as far as KwaZulu hospitals are concerned, he was accepted. Does the hon member for Stanger perhaps consider that the applicant’s qualifications were not up to standard?

But they were suitable for the Blacks!

No, that particular Indian doctor’s standards were not up to standard in terms of the normal requirements. The double standards assisted him in accepting a lower standard to deal with a particular urgency and to deal with a particular crisis in a certain circumstance.

There are many Whites with lower standards!

The White doctors that have been accepted have all passed the norms of South African universities or the norms of the South African Medical and Dental Council. I would just caution the hon member that if he wants to level accusations of double standards, then he must determine the standards he requires—the higher or the lower standards. In this particular issue I can assure him that we of the Executive Committee—my colleague, Mr Naidoo, my colleague on the joint executive authority, Dr Frank Mdlalose, and myself—have gone out of our way to do everything possible to assist suitably qualified Indian doctors to get employment. We believe that it is not in the interests of health services that if there are qualified people, these people should not be given an opportunity.

However, at the same time we cannot determine the standards required by the South African Medical and Dental Council. We have made representations to this body, the hon the Minister of National Health and Population Development and the Director-General of National Health, to address this particular question.

I am also of the opinion that where there are insufficiently qualified doctors, we should consider asking our universities to enrol these people and accept the standard of their qualifications and admit them for one further year of study at a South African university so that they then can get a South African recognised medical qualification.

Mr Chairman, unfortunately my time has for the moment elapsed. I hope to be able to come back to deal with numerous other matters.

Mr Chairman, in the few minutes at my disposal, I wish to draw the Extended Committee’s attention to the crying need for addressing the lack of an overall structural guide plan for Natal. I believe a guide plan which addresses the development direction of our metropolitan areas is essential, not least important to put local communities’ minds at rest. I am thankful for the assurance given by Mr Pierce that certain town boards have got guide plans. I wish this to be implemented for the rest of Natal and also for an overall structural plan to be implemented in Natal.

Surely some order must be brought to such matters as urbanisation. I believe that informal settlements and squatting can best be dealt with by formalising land ownership. A title deed over a patch of land is the cornerstone of the capitalist system and the establishment of a middle class. Even if nothing else is done, a massive land survey and allocation of permanent stands is the key in addressing urbanisation. I agree with Mr Miller, MEC, that land must be identified to take care of illegal squatters and to set the necessary domino effect in motion.

Another very important issue affecting Natal at this time is the riot situation. At present Natal is the hotspot for rioting in South Africa. In addressing the fundamental causes for this situation, I wish to draw hon members’ attention to a position paper on research findings into Black township violence in Natal-KwaZulu by the Inkatha Institute. The findings are that violence has escalated over the past 10 years. Acceleration of this upward trend over the past three years has by way of the news media and various sources of political opportunism given heightened public awareness of the priorities to the situation. This awareness perceives the violence to be attributable to a struggle for supremacy or survival between those answerable to the political ideologies of either Inkatha or the UDF.

However, the fundamental causes lie much deeper. Months of evaluation by the institute have shown that there is a direct link between youth and violence. More than 90% of incidents of violence are physically perpetrated by Black youths between the ages of 15 and 24. Psychological attitudes of the youth include an array of negative emotions of anger and frustration at the lives with which they have to contend, insecurity and anxiety at the lack of purpose to life, resorting to latent aggression. The environment in which they live is unsuitable and uncomfortable and brought on mainly by poverty.

Job opportunities in Natal, although its industries record the highest growth rate in South Africa by far, just do not keep pace with the population growth of 4,2% per annum. That is the birth rate plus urbanisation combined. It is a universal phenomenon that severe poverty radicalises and more so when a Third World type community is sited adjacent to an affluent First World type community. Awareness to become politically involved goes hand in hand with a loss of traditional values such as parental and tribal respect.

This brings me to the next and most vital cause of this state of affairs. Let us consider how the young man’s ambitions and job opportunities are addressed. The unavailability of jobs is highest amongst the youth, as high as 80% in some communities. To satisfy his ambition, education must become far more vocational directed. A structural change is therefore needed here.

Secondly, industrial development must be allowed to flourish unhindered and industry must be sited, whenever possible, where or close to where the people live. How much longer can we afford to fiddle about when developers take the initiative to have more industrial land declared, but are frustrated at every turn? We need more and cheaper industrial land. I believe the restrictive policy applied to new industrial estates is putting an unnecessary premium on land values.

I am told that new extensions to Westmead are being sold for up to R1 million per hectare. Surely this must stiffle privatisation and opportunity. I believe not a stone should be left unturned to create opportunity and hope for our young people.

Mr Chairman, the hon member Mr Redinger referred to the violence in Natal. I wish to briefly add a few comments to that aspect of his speech. I find it amazing that the issue of violence and the hundreds of deaths over the last year are not a central issue of discussion in this debate. However, because this body is not democratically elected and not responsible to the people of Natal, one can perhaps understand this. [Interjections.]

This body is not representative of the people of Natal. This administration is not answerable to the voters of Natal. Otherwise it would have, as a central issue, debated the violence in this province. Where could one have a situation where in 1988 just under 1 000 people died as a result of violence? That is more than the number that, during the same period, died in Beirut and Northern Ireland together. Yet it is a matter with which the NPA is not empowered to deal. It has no direct responsibility over large portions of those areas where the violence takes place. Is that not a farcical situation? How can such an administration regard itself as being democratically elected or responsible to the people? It is not.

It is not its fault. We ought to be in a position where the people of Natal can, in a body like this, deal with and debate those issues which are of direct relevance to them, and that is, inter alia, the violence. Even though the NPA has no jurisdiction and authority over that aspect, I plead with them to bring it to the attention of the central authority and to urge them to pay greater attention to the seriousness of the question of violence in Natal. At the moment, even though it is the administrative body for the province, it has no responsibility for that.

The hon MEC, Mr Volker, did mention that the present dispensation represents a transition stage. The hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning has also hinted that we may be moving towards an elected provincial administration. We hope that that will materialise. I think that one can predict that in ten years’ time we will have an elected provincial administration and all those hon members of the NP who enthusiastically supported the 1983 constitutional model will eat their words because they will then find out that this system is disastrous in the long term, because it does not require those who administer and dish out the money to account to the voters. That is why this system will disappear in favour of a democratic system where the people of Natal have direct representation on this body. We must therefore treat it as a transitional phase, because a transitional phase, as bad as it is, will lead to something better.

The hon MEC, Mr Volker, dealt with hospital services and I appreciate that his department and its executive have to deal with very difficult circumstances, seeing that as from 1 April 1988 they had to take over a number of functions and additional tasks because hospitals which were previously run by the State were transferred to his administration.

Does the hon Mr Volker know that at this stage there are numerous hospitals in respect of which members of staff, doctors, nurses and administrative people are either not getting their salaries or are getting the wrong salaries. At Grey’s, for example, two or three days ago there were 17 nurses, one doctor and eight others who had either not received their last salary or had received totally wrong salaries. At Addington ten people fell in that category. At Wentworth there were 20 people who had either not received salaries or had received the wrong salaries. In Clairwood there were others as well. At King Edward VIII about 20 people per month are either getting no salaries or the wrong salaries. There is a case in King Edward VIII where a student midwife had to wait for almost three months before she got a salary. Two days ago there was a staff nurse at King Edward VIII who started work at the end of January and by Thursday this week had not been paid at all. I did not have the opportunity to check the many other hospitals. Even if the administration is struggling under a heavy workload this state of affairs is unacceptable, because this standard of administration should not be allowed to continue.

Some slightly nervous remarks were made by two hon members about the Democratic Party. They were made by the hon members for Umhlanga and Pietermaritzburg North. I say they were slightly nervous, because they are the two individuals, together with the hon member for Umbilo and others who are sitting here, who know that when the Democratic Party is launched on Saturday, a party which will pull in people from a wide spectrum into one force, their seats are threatened. The hon member for Umhlanga is scared that Mr Louis Luyt will stand there and he knows that if that happens, he is out. The hon member for Pietermaritzburg North is jittery. The amount of attention that is being given to the Democratic Party is indicative of the fact that particularly in Natal the NP members, including the hon member for South Coast who is sitting there with a nervous smile, realise that they will feel the weight and impact of the Democratic Party in a way that they have not felt anything in the last few years. The hon member for Durban Point is also sitting there giggling. He knows too that he is going to lose his seat.

Mr Chairman, I would like to ask the hon member a question. Am I supposed to quake at the knees because of his statement?

Mr Chairman, that is the type of question I would expect from that hon member, but I do not take it seriously. I want to congratulate the NPA to the extent that I do believe that in many areas, as indicated by the hon member Mr Miller, they are trying to take the lead in terms of necessary change that has to take place in South Africa. The attitude towards negotiating with other groupings and interest groups is a very positive one. The attitude towards trying to diffuse tension around the beach and facilities issues is a very positive one from which other provinces, I believe, can learn.

Despite the fact that the provincial executive is operating under severe limitations in a rotten system, I do believe that there are competent people, both in the executive and amongst the officials who are trying to make the best of a bad system, and for that I wish to congratulate them and wish them everything of the best.

Mr Chairman, one listened with a degree of bewilderment to the indignation expressed by the hon member for Durban Central about the violence which is taking place in Natal. It was particularly surprising as it came from a member who had undertaken a long journey only a short while ago to pay a visit to those who are contributing inter alia to the violence with regard to which he is now so indignant.

For reasons of time and strategy, it is not fitting to react to an hon member who is the spokesman of a party which is only going to exist for another three days. Until he spoke, those of us on this side of the House still supported his candidature for the leadership of the new party, but we have now decided that we will support the hon member for Reservoir Hills, on condition that the hon member for Reservoir Hills does, in fact, stand for the Democratic Party. It appears to me that there is something of a dispute in that regard. We are indeed dealing with a DP here—a Dead-End Party. I do not want to dwell on that any longer.

I want to make an appeal here today with regard to the interests of my voters, and I believe that this applies to the vast majority of White voters in Natal as well. However, before I come to that, a little background and a few statistics are very important. Nevertheless, I want to confine myself specifically to general background and impersonal statistical data. The reason for this is that I do not want to embarrass any individual or body at this stage by using specific examples to illustrate my point. I would in fact be able to do so very convincingly with the facts at my disposal.

It is a well-known fact that it is Government policy that the various communities in our population should be afforded group security. This includes separate residential areas for our own population groups. At present, the Group Areas Act regulates this aspect. In terms of this Act, however, a permit can be applied for in order to move into a residential area of a different population group. These applications are presently being dealt with by the departments of the various provinces which administer land usage and general services.

Before such a department gives its ruling, the MP concerned and the town council are requested to make a recommendation. In my experience, the officials of this department have shown a sense of responsibility and great circumspection. My constituency and I thank them for that.

That brings me to the statistics for Natal, and I am excluding the applications from Black workers—mainly domestic servants. During 1988, 71% of all applications for residential permits, came from people who wanted to live in White areas, 20% from people who wanted to live in Indian areas, and 9% from people who wanted to live in Coloured areas. More than three times as many permits were granted to people from other population groups to move into White areas than were approved for Indian areas, and more than four times as many permits than were granted for Coloured areas. In the meantime, these disparities have increased considerably. From this, it is therefore clear that there is far greater pressure on and far more extensive admission to White areas than to the areas of other groups.

If a permit is rejected, an appeal is often lodged with the Administrator and his Executive Committee. I believe that in the other provinces if the local community, in other words the MP and the town council, oppose such an application, the Department of Land Utilisation consequently also rejects the application and it will actually not come about that the Executive Committee will continue with such an appeal despite this.

In Natal, from 1 January 1988 to 1 January 1989, no appeals were received against the refusal of residential permits in Coloured and Indian residential areas. Such appeals against the refusal of permits in White areas were received, however, and the Executive Committee upheld about 80% of them. These applications were therefore approved as a result of the appeals which were made to the Executive Committee.

A few appeals were also made against the initial granting of permits in White residential areas. However, all these appeals were rejected by the Executive Committee. The applicants could therefore remain there despite the appeal against their presence. The above illustrates once again the pressure, also from the Executive Committee, which is being brought to bear on White residential areas.

When, in the light of these facts and conclusions, I request that the Executive Committee should reconsider in this regard, it does not mean that I am denying that certain applications do, in fact, have merit. However, I have facts at my disposal which show that permit applications are also made after police investigations with regard to unlawful infiltration are already under way. The aim of such applications is to attempt to obstruct the course of justice in a certain sense after the unlawful occupation has been discovered.

Neither do I want to suggest, by my plea for a serious reconsideration, that I doubt the good intentions of the Executive Committee or that I do not think they have the necessary insight. I am aware of the fact that decisions with regard to appeals, are consensus decisions. However, it is well-known that the majority of MECs are not amenable to the principle of a separate community life and the concept of own affairs. In general, they are committed to the dismantling of separate residential areas. On the other hand, the vast majority of Whites attach great value to these things. Consensus among the MECs is therefore no automatic guarantee that the sentiments of the Whites are really being taken into account.

I can understand that the Executive Committee may be subject to pressure from, for example, academic or ecclesiastical groups, which is compounded by a climate-creating opposition press in Natal. I am also aware that the Executive Committee is eager to avoid unfavourable media coverage. I personally can understand that. However, as the 1987 election showed, the sentiments of the media in Natal are totally divorced from the White voters in the province. A modus vivendi between the Executive Committee and the media is therefore once again no guarantee for White interests.

Therefore, it would appear that there are real differences between the way in which appeals are dealt with by the Executive Committee here and executive committees elsewhere. The temptation may exist to ascribe this to the Natal ethos. We understand and respect the Natalians and their ethos. After all, we are also Natalians. However, if anyone wishes to insinuate that White Natalians do not feel very strongly about the consistent maintenance and protection of their own residential areas, I have news for him! In my own constituency, repeated and independent surveys indicate that more than 80% of my voters oppose the allocation of any permits in their own area. The hon MEC Mr Volker recently received first-hand experience of this strong feeling when he attempted to explain the philosophy of the Executive Committee to them.

Let us not try to convince one another either that we are dealing with wretched people who do not have a roof over their heads, or a livelihood. Some of these rogues are sufficiently capable of financing artificial close corporations in order to move into areas unlawfully under that deceitful guise.

I can understand that the Executive Committee is more isolated and more removed from the ordinary problems of voters than those of us who are public representatives or town council members. It is therefore logical that our opinions with regard to permit applications should receive far more serious consideration than is apparently the case at the moment, especially as our contributions are explicitly based on the views of our voters, as well as on general government policy, with regard to the protection of established interests. I want to assure hon members that my concern in this regard is shared by respectable and responsible people closely associated with the Ministers’ Council in the House of Assembly.

The present approach is also giving rise to bitterness. We are dealing with a potential for conflict in the White community. In this regard, I would like to refer hon members to an authoritative and well-researched article by Prof Thomashausen on residential and spacial conflicts. I quote:

He goes on:

My plea is therefore that the Department of Land Utilisation, as well as the Executive Committee, should pay strict attention to the scrupulous protection of existing and established group interests. They must understand the fact that the inhabitants of my constituency are not well-to-do, that their houses represent their only property investments, that they bought in what they regarded an exclusive White area and that they expect it to remain as such. They look to the Government, to the Executive Committee and to me for an assurance in this regard.

As a public representative, it is my task to take note of their sentiments and to protect their vested interests and thereby to prevent the emergence of anxiety in our community. As such, it is therefore my duty to consider their view in my recommendation. I do not have the right to adopt a moral arrogance which seeks to force integration on them against their wishes. Neither does such a paternalistic approach coincide with government policy in this regard.

I assure hon members that I am speaking on behalf of the voters of Umhlatuzana. I move among them and understand them. They are banking on our protection. These are therefore the facts as obtained on the ground—away from airconditioned offices elsewhere.

I am dealing with this question dispassionately today, because I have friends in the Executive Committee—there are even Nationalists there. I am really asking for understanding and support.

It is perhaps ironic or even tragic that I have to plead in this way for the sake of the peace of mind and interests of my people. Unfortunately, this is nothing new in our society. In the same way, the hon members of the other two Houses, which are represented here today, had to plead in the past, for example, for the interests and needs of their own people. I therefore believe that they will regard the plea that I am making here today with sympathy and understanding. I also believe that they have taken serious note of the sentiments of my people.

However, at the same time, I want to concede that not all hon members in those Houses necessarily share my sentiments and those of my party. They say that they are opposed to the principle of separate residential areas and own affairs. In the same way, therefore, there are also MECs who are opposed to this principle. This ideological dichotomy in the Executive Committee has the potential of giving rise to an Executive Committee egg-dance with regard to permit applications with a resulting dissatisfaction in the community which is affected by it. In fact, it is actually extremely ironic that the Department of Land Utilisation and the Executive Committee are still continuing to refuse permit applications for residents in Coloured and Indian residential areas on behalf on the Coloureds and Indians in order to prevent people from other population groups from moving in there, at a time when the leaders of these communities are saying that they believe their areas should be open. It would be far more logical to approve all such permit applications as they occur, or it would amount to the fact that the province and the Executive Committee were administering the Group Areas Act in favour of this population group. This is indeed an anachronism and a theatre of the absurd.

At present a strong moral obligation rests on the LP and Solidarity to declare all their areas free settlement areas, or at least to give instructions that all permit applications should be approved. Besides that, the province and the Executive Committee should be relieved of this prickly pear and permit applications for White areas should be dealt with by the Ministers’ Council concerned. This should bring about considerably fewer dilemmas for all involved.

I have already referred to the pressure on White areas in particular. In the light of the negative approach of the majority parties of the other two Houses with regard to separate residential areas, there is going to be increasing pressure from Blacks on their residential areas—even on the Cape Flats! This will in turn give rise to Coloureds and Indians, who are let down by their own politicians, trying to move into White areas. This is already happening in Natal.

Hon members of these two Houses are now staring at me. Let me tell them that there are colleagues among them today who wholeheartedly agree with me that their people should also enjoy the protection which I am asking for here today for my own voters. I am leaving it to them to speak for themselves in due course.

In the meantime, I shall not hesitate to intervene for my own people and plead their case to the province, the Executive Committee and elsewhere. I shall do so for as long as these bodies still have jurisdiction over these matters. In fact, this is my bounden duty.

In conclusion, I thank the hon members of the Executive Committee for listening to me patiently. However, I would also like to remind them of the old saying: “The proof of the pudding lies in the eating.”

Mr Chairman, I listened with care to what I took to be a sincere and serious speech by the hon member who has just spoken. He took as his subject one of the most difficult aspects that the Executive Committee has to deal with. It is not only in South Africa that one has social pressure relating to what the hon member described as spatial considerations or constraints. It is not only in this country that difficulties arise from social pressures in that field.

Only a few nights ago I was watching television and the story that was unfolding was about conflict that resulted because of infiltration of Blacks into a White Irish Catholic area in the United States. One reads of similar disputes arising because of the movement of Protestants into a Catholic area in Northern Island or vice versa. One reads about similar disputes arising in the southern part of the United States where the Hispanic influence moves into an area inhabited by people who come from a different part of the globe. Wherever one has different communities occupying one piece of territory—and the hon gentlemen who sit there must not feel that they are deriving any benefit from what I am about to say—one has these pressures arising. These pressures arise when one has different communities living in one spacial area.

The Executive Committee of Natal over which I have the honour to preside, has been given the task—we did not ask for it—of dealing with permits in respect of the group areas legislation of South Africa. That piece of legislation is there and we have to work within that structure. As long as that piece of legislation is there, and as long as it embodies—as it does—provisions for permits to be granted for persons of other race groups, either to carry on business or to acquire property or to reside in an area which is a group area for a different race group, somebody has to grasp the nettle and take a decision on an application in terms of that piece of legislation.

That task has been given to the Executive Committees of the four provinces. The Executive Committee of Natal—I do not have to tell it to this body—exists of two Whites, two Indians and a Coloured person presided over by myself—a White person. I do not make any pretence that one of the most difficult tasks that we have to face is to attempt to give a balanced, fair decision in terms of that piece of legislation, bearing in mind all the other factors that surround issues of this kind. One of the most difficult tasks that has been placed upon our shoulders is decisions such as those.

However, I would like to begin by paying great tribute to my colleagues for the fact that we have been able to carry out this work and take these decisions. In most cases these decisions were taken on the basis of consensus—otherwise there would not have been a decision, as hon members will all know—and with no rancour and heat of any kind. It is in the nature of things that despite the fact that there are group areas, the legislature in its wisdom has decided that there will be cases where permits can and should be granted, otherwise the system would not exist. Those decisions where permits have to be decided upon are not taken in a vacuum. They are taken in terms of the law, the legislation that requires certain issues to be considered, and in terms of the fairly widespread consultation which takes place.

Now, let me say to hon gentlemen who may be under the impression that it is only when there is an application for a person who is not White to enter a White group area, that there are objections from residents of that group area. That is not the case. Applications for non-qualified people to go into Indian or Coloured areas equally draw objections from the communities concerned. Whatever the application therefore may be, whether it is a White person or a non-qualified person to go into any of the group areas concerned—White, Coloured or Indian—the Executive Committee has to deal with objections and has to weigh up the application.

The facts and figures hon members have before them of what this Executive Committee has attempted to do in the circumstances, speak for themselves in the sense that they indicate that more applications as far as all areas are concerned, have been granted in respect of business applications rather than residences. I believe I am correct in saying this. I think those who know the conditions in South Africa could understand that that should be so. However, in almost every case, whichever way the decision goes, there will be those who are satisfied and there will be those who are not satisfied. I am not going to enter into the field which is a party political one as to whether or not we should have such legislation, or whether or not the decision should be taken in one of the own affairs administrations or in a general affairs administration. What I should and can deal with, is what this general affairs administration attempts to do in dealing with what is admittedly a difficult issue.

It has been said at the highest level in various Houses of Parliament that changes can be expected in the field of group areas legislation, and it may be that those will come sooner rather than later—I do not know. However, what I have tried to do this afternoon is to convey the impression to this Committee that the Executive Committee tries sincerely to meet the problems associated with the granting of permits in a balanced, fair and responsible manner. The fact that it has on every occasion an input from the gentlemen you see sitting on my right, who are representative of all the communities who are in this Chamber should, I think, indicate that we get as close to a fair decision as is humanly possible in difficult circumstances.

I have been asked a number of other questions which it might be convenient for me to deal with whilst we are at it. A number of hon members have asked me about, and have commented upon, the operation of the tricameral system. It was put in perhaps its most concise form by a question from, I think, the hon member for Brakpan, who asked me: “Why do I associate myself with this farce?” I might say I could ask him the same question. I associate myself with the tricameral system because I believe that the tricameral system has been an excellent bridging mechanism between the all-White system which existed before, and the new constitutional dispensation which leading members of the ruling party in the House of Assembly have recently been envisaging, and has eased the process of reform to a very considerable extent.

When I first took office as Administrator four years ago, I presided here over an all-White Chamber, and two and a half years ago that changed. When I consider what is here today, and the sort of debate that the Executive Committee has to face, then I do not believe anyone can fairly say that it has not been a very useful exercise indeed and that it has not furthered constitutional development in South Africa. Nobody pretends that the present system is a perfect one, and that it is not without its deficiencies. We all experience this. Equally, however, I think it is generally accepted today that it is not seen as a permanent arrangement. I believe that the mere fact that it has brought into being an executive committee constituted as the Natal Executive Committee is today, has been of inestimable benefit to the constitutional development of this country and to the creation of the right climate and the right attitude that was referred to by the hon the Deputy Minister of Population Development. He pleaded for a change in attitude and approach.

There is no better forum to bring about changes in attitude as a matter of daily occurrence. There is no better engine for the creation of the right climate in people than a mixed executive committee such as I have the honour to preside over. We work on a daily basis as a team, where the views that are expressed and the viewpoints that are espoused meet. I almost said that on occasion they clash, but that is too strong a word. We have robust debate on a daily basis on the sort of things that are discussed in this Chamber once a year, and we have to administer a province—a large administration. We have to decide upon the allocation of R1,5 billion in funds between the communities, on a basis on which we can achieve consensus within the Executive Committee in respect of all our communities. I think it says a great deal, not only for the people concerned, but for the system, that that can take place.

So do not let anyone complain to me that the multiracial executive committees are appointed—and I noticed that emphasis was placed in certain speeches on the fact that we are appointed. It does not worry me in the slightest that we are appointed, provided the components of the Executive Committee enjoy the confidence of the majority parties in the respective Houses. It does not matter how they get there, provided they act in a manner which retains the confidence of the majority in the Houses from which they emanate.

We are perhaps at the forefront, at the level of the Executive Committee of a province; we are perhaps the leading edge of what is to come in the constitutional progress and the reform of this country, because we do not just talk about it in debating chambers; we are actually putting it into practice. That is the most difficult part. It is very easy to theorise, but it is far more difficult to have to put it into practice and administer it. Remember that we are not managing an own affair; we are managing—at all levels—general affairs.

To sum up, then, I do not believe—I think I can speak on behalf of the Executive Committee—that the tricameral experiment, if that is what it is to be called, has been without value. I certainly do not believe that the executive committee system such as we have it, whatever faults it may have, is without value. I do believe—indeed I am not saying anything new since the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning has already said so—that he envisages the possibility, and indeed I think he said the probability, of legislatures returning once more at the regional level. I would agree with him. There is ultimately no substitute for an executive which is responsible to an elected legislature. Of course, we can all differ as to how those legislatures should be formulated. Of course, that is part of the party-political debate which, however much one may wish to, I cannot enter into.

I should like to touch for a moment on the question of the Indaba. Various hon members invited me to comment on the Indaba and its proposals. There have been a lot of erroneous statements and misconceptions as to how the Indaba came into being, and statements directed at the way it worked and the decisions that were taken thereafter and so forth. I shall not go into those; they are now past history. It is, however, correct, as has been indicated, that the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning did ask the Executive Committee of Natal to comment on the majority proposals, or rather on the proposals; there were both majority and minority proposals. We did this, and as the invitation came from him for us to report to him in that regard, I regard it as proper that any comment on what we had to say should come from the hon the Minister concerned.

It is very interesting to note that there are now further discussions taking place between a ministerial delegation from Parliament and the KwaZulu government on future constitutional developments and it has been said that the proposals emanating from the Indaba might be considered in those discussions. That being so, I do not wish to say anything more on that subject other than that I think we will all agree that it is really interesting that such discussions should be taking place.

As far as the Swartberg farms are concerned, I was asked by the hon member for Mooi River, who has apologised for not being able to be here this afternoon, to say something with regard to these farms which were to have been bought out some years ago by the central Government. They have not been bought and the hon member for Mooi River made an eloquent plea on the difficulties that land-owners faced when it was seen that they were to be acquired by the Government. I am fully aware of the difficulties and I accept entirely what he said as to the difficulties concerned. One knows that this is a fact.

However, the position is that the hon the Minister of the Environment has indicated that he is not able to find the necessary funding and he has passed the responsibility to this administration because the land is now to be acquired for the purpose of the protection of the environment, which is now provincial responsibility.

I would like him to know that we have requested R5,5 million, which is the full estimated cost of the purchase of the property concerned, which is of the order of 10 to 15 farms. We have requested that for our Estimates for 1990-1991, which is the first lot of Estimates on which we can place it, and we have motivated a case for the purchase of those properties.

I can give him the assurance that we will do our utmost, both from the point of view of conservation, which is our function, and from the point of view of alleviating the plight of the land owners concerned. I sincerely hope that those funds will be forthcoming. For those who may not know the area, these are mostly properties in the mountains and the preservation of the mountain catchment is part of our responsibility.

I should also, if I may, like to touch on the question of the beaches. They have been the subject of discussion, particularly the question of the money which has been made available and spent under the aegis of my colleague Mr Miller, to obviate the overcrowding of the beaches and the question of pay-beaches. He was there on Easter Monday or Easter Sunday and my colleague, Mr Pierce, and I were present on the beaches on New Year’s day. Not only did we walk the length and breadth of the beaches of Durban, but we flew from Umgababa in the south to Umhloti in the north and spent the whole day there. Therefore, when I talk of beaches, I talk from personal experience. I hope that some of the hon members who were critical of what we have been trying to do in that regard can likewise say that they have personally been present on the beaches on occasions when there are hundreds of thousands of people there. I just often wonder whether they have.

However, there is no doubt that there has been a great improvement as a result of the expenditure of the funds concerned. When I say a great improvement, I mean in the spreading of the load of people. Basically, that is what it is all about. Overcrowding in any circumstances causes problems.

I would like to say that I do believe that there is room for pay-beaches, provided they are put in the right places. If one takes the beach baths, they are no more than a pay-beach. It is an enclosed area with water and lawns around it where people have to pay to go in. Now, it was very noticeable on New Year’s Day that if one went into the beach baths, it was an area fully as multiracial as any other part of the beaches, but it was tranquil; it was not overcrowded. The people who went in there did so, I have no doubt, largely in order not to be overcrowded. They were prepared to pay in order to do that.

Speaking for myself, I see nothing wrong with that principle, namely that if people wish to be away from overcrowding and are prepared to pay for the privilege, they should be allowed to do so. I do think that anyone who has travelled in Europe or in the United States will know that the principle is universally accepted. I do say, of course, that it must be done in the proper manner and in the right place.

I do hope that the hon Mr Derby-Lewis, in respect of whose alleged utterance one of my colleagues made a statement earlier, if he is coming into the debate, will take the opportunity to clear up the slur which, so far, appears in the Press against the probity of the Administration of Natal.

I am sorry the MEC did not take it up with me before he answered in the Press. [Interjections.]

Nevertheless it has been in the Press and numbers of people have read it. Perhaps the hon member suffers the disadvantage that he does not live here, but I hope that he will take the opportunity to clear that up because the probity of this administration is something of which we are proud. We believe we run a clean, reasonably efficient administration, and I would be very unhappy if any allegations against it were to remain, particularly if they were not intended and if, as I believe to be the case, they are unfounded.

Mr Chairman, this afternoon I feel very honoured to speak after the hon the Administrator. He has touched on issues, particularly the Group Areas Act, which the majority of us are not in agreement with. However, being a capable and polished politician, he painted a nice picture of the Group Areas Act and its implementation and what have you. I do not want to react too much to that; I just want to tell him my difficulty with regard to the Group Areas Act in Umzinto.

There is one property—Lot no 118—which has been demarcated by the Group Areas Board into two lots. One comes under the Development and Services Board, and the other under Umzinto North. One is commercial, the other is open space for Whites where no Whites live! I raised this last year and it has not been rectified. It now looks as if the present owners will have to spend enormous amounts of money in legal costs to rectify this matter.

The other issue concerns Park Rynie. In June last year I personally brought two applications for two businesses that are Indian-owned with White fronts. All I wanted to do was legalise the transactions. However, we had a permit granted for the butchery after six months, but not for the hotel. I went to the hotel with the officials of the advisory committee for Park Rynie. They carried out an inspection and spoke to the manageress. They asked what sort of boarders they had. The answer was that they were all Blacks. The officials asked where they came from. They worked for Eskom. She was therefore providing a service to Eskom, and the hotel across the road does not admit non-Whites!

I went there with a professional man one day, and I said to a White lady: “Look, we want to go into the lounge and have a drink.” The lady said: “We don’t serve Indians here.” However, I did not go to the newspapers.

I wish the hon members of the Executive Committee would look at this application. Now the one for the hotel has been refused, and the person has to take it on appeal, with added costs. I believe these Whites who are acting as fronts are privileged people taking advantage of less privileged people. This has become an industry for Whites, and the sooner we rectify this, the better. This particular area is a CBD area, and I do not see any difficulty; I cannot understand why the permit was turned down in the first place.

The hon the Administrator also spoke about attitudes. I do not think this can be overemphasized. I have said in all forums that people’s attitudes must change; not only the White people’s attitude, but also the Indians’ attitude and that of everybody else in this country. We are always telling the White people: Open your doors to us. Simultaneously we must open our doors to the Black people. We have to improve the quality of life for everybody.

The hon MEC Mr Volker spoke about a cake and money. I think we have quite a big cake. However, I think it is devoured by the policies of the NP Government’s ideology of separateness. In religion they talk about oneness, but in this country everybody talks about separateness, and we are paying for this ideology. The sooner we move away from that, the better for everyone.

The hon member for Durban Point spoke about nurses and low salaries. My daughter did nursing at Groote Schuur long before I went to Cape Town, and her nursing there made me conscious of nurses. Whenever I saw Black nurses waiting at the roadside I gave them a lift, particularly in Scottburgh. One day I gave a Black nurse a lift, and I said: “You know, there are a lot of Black nurses working here, and they should provide transport for you people, because you come from far and wide.” I asked her: “You attend to a lot of White people in the White section. Tell me, do White motorists ever give you a lift?” She said: “Yes; only when it is dark.”

There was an instance in, I think, a northern Natal hospital, where an Indian nursing sister got married and wore the symbol of her marriage, which is a red dot. The White doctor in the theatre told her: “When you work with me, please do not wear your red dot.” He called it “a third eye”. Mr Chairman, in this day and age it is a sad thing when professional people do not respect other people’s beliefs and religious symbols.

Coming back to the hospital at Scottburgh, the non-White section of that hospital is definitely overcrowded, and I have had cases where pensioners or grantees go there for hospitalisation and have to go into the White section as a private patient, and pay R85 per day. These pensioners only get R200 per month! I think this must be addressed. Unfortunately we have these two situations in South Africa: the First World situation and the Third World situation. I think the haves will have to pay for the have-nots.

*Where is the hon member for Springfield? Has he gone home?

†He said he was disappointed at the leader of the NPP and the new leader of Solidarity not being here. Where is his party leader? He does not even know who his party leader is—that is, if he has one! And then he talks about others! I think he must first sort out his own party and see who his leader is, before he talks about others.

Before going on to what I want to say about the debate, I want to quote from the 21 March edition of the Cape Times what our hon Foreign Minister had to say. I think this will more or less set the trend for what has to come after this. The report is entitled “Days of White domination in South Africa over”, and it reads as follows:

That applies to all of us.

Do you agree with that?

Mr Chairman, our local authorities, like the White and Coloured local authorities, are experiencing severe financial hardship. Their main source of revenue is rates, and these cannot be increased beyond reasonable bounds, because many of our people are finding it extremely difficult to pay municipal rates each year. I believe the town councils and town boards are doing a reasonably good job in difficult circumstances, but I wish to bring to your attention the unique situation in which one of the Indian local authorities finds itself. It has, over the past 15 years, been unable to extricate itself from the financial problems which it inherited. I refer to Umzinto, officially described or renamed as Umzinto North.

This town, until 1974, was fully integrated, although the town board was all-White. In that year the Government decreed that apartheid must be enforced and the town, together with the health committee area of Park Rynie—on the beach and 8 kilometres to the east—was split. Part was zoned for Indians, and the other part for Whites. The Indian areas were established as one local authority, Umzinto North, while the White areas were placed under the control of the Development and Services Board, a well-known and efficient arm of the Provincial Administration.

That board is a local authority under a different name, and provides exactly the same services. It has the same rights and authority to levy rates and impose charges for services as any other local authority. The major difference, though, is that the Development and Services Board is subsidised by the Provincial Administration.

Not only was this Indian local authority given an area which bristled with difficulties; the Indian community, which had never governed anything affecting the public before, was called upon without guidance, training or help, either practical or financial, to assume control of a community of about 4 000 people which, it was forecast at the time, would increase to about 10 000 souls in 10 years.

It was therefore a fast-growing local authority with little effective infrastructure and with inexperienced people in control. The result was near-collapse after nine years, with hardly anything having been achieved. Even if the board members had had more experience, services in the town would not have improved very much because of a lack of funds and the very serious lack of infrastructure.

I will now turn to the development areas. The White side of Umzinto was supervised by the Development and Services Board with its wealth of experienced men, unlimited expertise and valuable financial resources. The Development and Services Board, by coincidence and not through design, supervised the area which is not as hilly and undulating as Umzinto North, and where there are hills and valleys, the land is under sugar-cane, so no problems regarding services arose. However, if there were engineering or technical problems, the board was able, at no cost to the taxpayers of that area—I repeat, at no cost to the tax and ratepayers—to send its experts in any sphere of local government to solve the problems. The costs involved in the use of these experts were charged against the province.

What is more, if the estimates for any year for these areas could not balance except through a substantial increase in rates, this was avoided by relying on what was, and may still be, known as “contribution from head office”. Umzinto North on the other hand did not enjoy that wonderful and most generous privilege.

A comparison of the development area of Park Rynie with that of Umzinto North is clearly a picture of the haves and the have-nots, Umzinto North being the latter, that is the have-nots. All the roads in the development area are kerbed, channelled and tarred. They have workyards which are well-equipped and storm water drainage is installed throughout. As in the case of the development area of Umzinto, the development area of Park Rynie had the services of health inspectors, building inspectors, town planners, medical health officers, engineers and local government advisers free of cost. The value cannot be calculated and is unknown, but it must be hundreds of thousands of rands which the province has paid over the past 14 years.

There is a clear difference in the treatment of the development areas of Umzinto and Umzinto North which causes the town board to view the situation with serious concern. To learn that the White areas received such generous grants over the years, while the Indian local authority had to struggle with no financial assistance at all, with the result that Umzinto North, including its part of Park Rynie, resembles a town of the Third World, causes the board indescribable distress at the unequal treatment. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, may I say at the outset to the hon member who has just spoken that I can associate myself with the need to escape the domination of one group by another, especially because the people to which I belong has exhibited its striving for freedom from the earliest times not only in that it demanded freedom for itself in a country of its own where it could rule itself according to its own standards and traditions but that it also, without any compulsion or pressure of any kind being applied to it, voluntarily, from the very beginning, right from the start of its settlement here in this country, tried to create those spaces for the peoples who were also grouped in one country with it by colonial powers, where they could govern themselves according to their own standards and traditions.

We have had interesting speeches this afternoon. I want to refer in the first place to the hon member for Umhlanga. He said that the CP had nothing to offer Natal. There is a haughtiness and almost an arrogance among hon members of the NP with seats in Natal which I cannot understand very well because their memories cannot be so short. Those hon members’ party, of which I also formed part previously, took 39 years before it could attain a majority in Natal because of the policy which that party followed, a policy with which I then associated myself. If the CP, which is continuing on the road of freedom for every population group in its own circle in its own fatherland in South Africa, needs time to build its support systematically in Natal too, as the NP required 39 years, the haughty tones which we had to listen to this afternoon do not befit hon members. The hon member for Umhlanga went further.

You are bluffing yourself.

The hon member for Umhlanga says that I am bluffing myself. The hon member also said that the NP in the Transvaal was on the warpath. Now he is talking about “bluffing yourself’. Surely the hon member knows that to scatter cheap propaganda around is bad enough but to start believing later in the cheap propaganda which one has scattered about is ridiculous.

The NP is on the warpath in the Transvaal to such an extent that they withdrew their paid organiser in Nelspruit from that town and sent him to Carolina where a by-election was held very recently in a vacant municipal ward. They made him work at NP expense in a small rural ward in a small municipality like Carolina for months in the old age home and among all the voters whom he could trace. When polling closed, there were more NP than CP supporters, so convinced was the NP that it could regain the ward because it had been a CP ward. The NP in the Transvaal is so far on the warpath that, when that result became known, they had fared worse than on 26 October of last year. If that is the NP on the warpath in the Transvaal, we welcome it and look forward to the next opportunity of settling scores with them.

The hon member for Umhlanga said something else of interest in an interjection while the hon the Minister of Local Government and Agriculture in the House of Representatives was speaking about direct representation of Coloureds and Indians on present White local governing bodies. The hon member for Umhlanga’s words in the interjection were: “Take autonomy.”

It was not I.

I said that.

“Take autonomy.” The hon the Minister in the House of Representatives confirms this. The hon the Minister then added: “Yes, of course that is what you want us to do”, or words to that effect. I want to tell the hon member for Umhlanga that on that point he is altogether in line with CP policy.

Mr Chairman, on a point of order: I did not make that remark but the hon member next to me did and he admitted it.

Order! That is a point of personal explanation.

*The hon member for Potgietersrus may proceed.

Thank you, Mr Chairman. Well, I am somewhat disappointed in the hon member for Umhlanga for not wanting to associate himself with such a good interjection. I want to ask him whether he agrees with the hon member for Klip River, if it was he who made the interjection. I ask him whether he agrees with the content of the interjection. No, the hon member for Umhlanga is as much without standpoint or direction as the NP has been for the last couple of years. He has no standpoint on this or is too embarrassed to state what his standpoint is on this. The hon member for Umhlanga does not want to disclose the secret of what he feels about affairs. The hon member for Klip River is in line with CP policy on that point; actually, it is CP policy that every population group should be able to handle its own municipal affairs at regional and at the highest level of government without interference from any other group.

What is more, the hon member for Umhlatuzana made a very interesting speech this afternoon. I do not want to react to the sentiments which he expressed here this afternoon in such a way that I may even create the impression that I am taking them lightly or turning them into cheap politics. I merely want to tell the hon member for Umhlatuzana that I feel sorry for him because the type of thing which he said this afternoon—that rational passion which spoke from the heart when he made that speech here this afternoon—does not belong with the NP any more. It belongs with only one party in White politics and that is the CP. [Interjections ]

Unfortunately the hon member for Umhlatuzana made a fatal mistake. He asked that the decision on the granting of group areas permits to those of colour in White areas should be left to the own affairs White Ministers’ Council for consideration. Group areas are a general affair, however. Group areas and the decisions about permits have landed with the province from none other than the Department of Constitutional Development and Planning. That is a general affairs or integration department. That is the department which is taking the lead on the road to integration which the NP has chosen.

The hon member for Umhlatuzana proposed a motion of no confidence in the Executive Committee and I associate myself strongly with him on that point. Nevertheless he not only did this but also moved a motion of no confidence in his own Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning because, if that hon Minister feels as the hon member for Umhlatuzana does, he would not have permitted that delegation to continue. Surely he would have revoked it and tried to place it or recommend that it be placed in the hands of the own affairs administration.

The NP’s false, artificial distinction between own and general affairs is best illustrated by that speech which the hon member for Umhlatuzana made this afternoon. The definition of general affairs is that they are affairs which affect all population groups. The hon member for Umhlatuzana is a member of a party which is in favour of the fact that a person may share in matters which affect all population groups. The granting of a group areas permit to an Indian in Natal, for instance, to live in a White residential area affects not only the White but the Indian too.

[Inaudible.]

The hon member for Umhlatuzana has already made his speech. I am dealing with him with great respect, piety and decency. He is not to interrupt me unnecessarily now.

He does not need you.

The hon member for Umhlanga is very upset now as he was caught out this afternoon because he did not want to say what standpoint he associated himself with. He has inter alia a small place by the name of Umdloti Beach in his constituency. We have had a small investment there for some time. In the light of what the hon member for Umhlatuzana appealed for here this afternoon, I want to ask the hon member for Umhlanga whether, for the sake of what I think we are still able to share with one another, he will support me, will co-operate with me or help me—he may choose the word—when we direct representations to this Executive Committee to reserve the traditional White beaches at Umdloti Beach for Whites in spite of the attitude they are adopting about the beaches, regarding which the hon MEC Mr Miller is so proud.

No, I do not want to.

The hon member for Umhlanga says that he will not help me. That is why he did not want to say a moment ago whether he agreed with the hon member for Klip River’s interjection. The hon member for Umhlanga has irrevocably chosen the way of integration. He probably does not even believe that own affairs will have a long run. [Interjections.] It has been recorded now that the hon member for Umhlanga said that he was not in favour of having an important public amenity, a traditional White beach at a small place like Umdloti, reserved for White use.

I consider it necessary, in the light of the distinction between de facto and de jure, which the hon MEC Mr Miller draws as regards public open-air recreational facilities, just to make the following point. The hon MEC creates the impression that, because beaches in Natal have always been open in a legal-technical sense, this has also been the policy. That is not true. De facto there was such a thing as White beaches. Beaches adjacent to White municipal areas and other forms of local government were de facto White beaches and the hon MEC knows that as well as I do.

That is not true.

Why have we just been discussing a traditional White beach if all the beaches in Natal were open de jure and de facto? Why else did the Government reserve beaches for the exclusive use of Indians and Black people? Why was this done if what I am saying is incorrect?

Beaches were certainly White de facto and the impression existed throughout Natal and throughout South Africa that those beaches were also de jure White beaches. In fact, the hon MEC knows as well as I do that White officials ensured over a long period that non-Whites were forbidden on those beaches. Those actions were apparently illegal if it were true that those beaches had always been open de jure.

I feel the need to refer, with respect, to the hon the Administrator’s explanation of the structure of the Group Areas Act in terms of which the Executive Committee had to take decisions on permits. I should like to comment that, if the hon the Administrator wished to create the impression with his explanation that the system of permits was there in terms of the Group Areas Act to make exceptions in the enforcement of the principle of separate residential areas for the various population groups, it is not correct.

The system of permits in terms of the Group Areas Act was traditionally not intended to permit those of colour to move into and to occupy a White residential area—if I may be permitted to speak of White residential areas now. [Interjections.] The traditional system of permits in terms of group areas legislation was instituted to accommodate those people who were not classified in terms of the Population Registration Act …

Who?

Chiefly Japanese and Chinese, who are present in South Africa in small numbers—after comprehensive consultation with the local community.

Where did you get hold of that?

But I was in the NP too. I know only too well what the situation was. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, in the limited time at my disposal I should just like to respond briefly to the hon member for Potgietersrus. That hon member referred right at the beginning of his speech to his Afrikaner identity. This is a sentiment which I share with him. He went on to refer to the policy that had been followed in this country, in terms of which room had been created for every population group. He indicated that this was the path which his party would continue to follow in the future.

He forgot one thing, however. He neglected to tell us where he wanted to draw the boundaries of these separate regions for the various peoples. He cannot tell us that. It is very interesting to note that their academic leader, Prof Carel Boshof, has done so. His own leader has rejected this but has not as yet offered us any alternative.

We are sitting in suspense and waiting for them to indicate the borders to us. We want to see how their homeland looks. Show it to us! When one looks at their policy at local authority level, it is very interesting to note the progress they are making in that area. Most of the cities or towns in which they control the councils, are not adhering to their policy.

Oh, rubbish!

It is only Carletonville and Boksburg that are implementing their policy, but Potchefstroom and other places are shying away from it. They cannot implement it, because it is not viable in practice. They cannot even give effect there to the physical planning which they make such a great fuss of here.

Mr Chairman, permit me to deal with a few other aspects. First of all I wish to refer briefly to law enforcement by the Natal Provincial Administration’s traffic inspectorate with regard to heavy vehicles. Heavy vehicles which transport cargo from the interior to Natal and vice versa, are subjected to very stringent testing within our province, far more stringent than is the case in other provinces. Whilst I have no problem whatsoever with the law relating to heavy vehicles being strictly enforced, a certain situation is now developing, namely that heavy vehicle operators are refusing to transport cargo between the interior and Natal. Alternatively, they increase their tariffs to such a rate that they are totally out of proportion to comparable distances in the rest of the RSA. This is creating problems. This situation is having an adverse effect on economic activities in Natal. The influence of this is very clearly discernible, for example, from the consumer price index applicable to fresh products which are transported by road from the interior to Natal.

Whilst I am not in favour of a relocation of law enforcement with regard to heavy vehicles—on the contrary—I am concerned about the consequences of the situation which has manifested itself over the past few years in Natal and which continues to do so. The consumer in Natal is paying the price for this to an increasing extent. In my view the solution lies in uniform law enforcement for all the provinces. The manner in which the province applies traffic laws should also be followed in the rest of the country. I therefore wish to direct a friendly request to our hon MEC Mr Volker to take up the matter with his colleagues in the other provinces in order to effect greater uniformity. I believe it would be in the interests of Natal and the consumers of Natal if we were able to effect an adjustment in this regard.

Permit me to continue by referring briefly to another matter, namely the KwaMevana Township in Howick. In my view the wisdom of the repeal of the decision with regard to the removal of KwaMevana is debatable. It is debatable because I personally gain the impression from the existing location of this residential area and the lack of living space which exists there that it cannot develop in a viable manner. If it is practically possible, I believe consideration should perhaps be given to whether it is desirable to proceed with the decision that KwaMevana is to remain and be upgraded.

If we accept that this decision has been taken and that it cannot be changed, I should like to make use of this forum to reaffirm the sensitive nature of the possible expansion of this residential area. This is a very sensitive matter to the residents of Howick. I should like to emphasise—and I believe that the hon MEC Mr Miller will agree with me—that it is not only the town council of Howick that should be consulted in planning this residential area. This is, of course, essential, but I believe that prior deliberation and consultation with residents on both sides of the boundary fence is equally important. It is important that the affected residents of Howick be recognised by the province and that the various interests of both groups be taken into account. I ask the province please to pay attention to this in any further expansion of this residential area and in its planning stage. I trust that in dealing with this matter the province will also pay attention to the interests of all the residents and that these will be taken squarely into account in order to obtain a broad acceptance of any final proposals.

Permit me also to refer briefly in closing to the N3 toll road. I do so with reference to the reaction of the hon member for Roodepoort and the hon member for Berea, as well as in conjunction with the hon member for Klip River. The N3 toll road has elicited widespread reaction in Natal. Emotions are running high with regard to this on a wide front. We on this side of the House have for some time now been devoting attention to this matter. We are still engaged in discussions with the hon the Minister of Transport Affairs. I believe that we shall be able to resolve this matter to such an extent that broad acceptance will be accomplished.

I just wish to refer briefly to a matter which has come to my attention. It is contained in a report in The Weekly Herald of 22 March 1987, in which the rumour is spread—and I have heard this in other places as well—that further toll plazas are to be erected on the N3 and that these are being planned. According to the report in The Weekly Herald, the town council of Howick conducted a lively debate with regard to the possibility of a toll plaza between Howick and Pietermaritzburg. According to the report, the town council adopted the following resolution at the end of the debate, and I quote:

Permit me to state very clearly and unequivocally here that neither Tolcon nor the Government is planning a further toll plaza on the N3 in Natal. This sort of rumour that is being spread is malicious, because such a thing does not exist. I want to make that very clear. Mr Chairman, I thank you for having given me this opportunity to do so.

Mr Chairman, I want to start off by acknowledging the very sober and mature manner in which the hon the Administrator has responded to the debate and also the manner in which he presented his point of view. I envy him for that quality that he possesses. However, I trust that the other MECs will also in due course learn from the hon the Administrator how to conduct themselves in the debates. [Interjections.]

Let me turn to the hon MEC, Mr Volker. I want to say quite categorically that Mr Volker, MEC, and Mr Naidoo, MEC, are responsible for hospital services. They must therefore take full responsibility for those departments. I have now received three separate answers to a very simple question that I put on the Dossier of Replies to Written Questions raised by Members of the Parliamentary Joint Committee on Provincial Affairs: Natal. This makes a total mockery of Parliament and our participation here.

Let me say that I received an answer on the official dossier. The letter which I received from the chairman of the board of the Stanger Hospital contained different information. This chairman, incidentally, is appointed by the MECs. When the hon MEC took the rostrum and launched his tirade, he gave yet another answer and I want to deal with that.

I would like to tell the hon MEC that his was a very poor attempt to extricate himself from a rather messy situation. The hon MEC must admit that full-time doctors cannot be replaced by those full-time doctors in private practice who merely come in to do sessions at hospitals. He tried to use that as an argument and said that those posts that are vacant in Stanger are indeed filled. Only when there is a crisis situation and there is not a full-time doctor, do the hospitals engage the services of doctors who work full-time to do sessions at the hospital.

When that situation arose previously, it was decided to create posts for full-time doctors at that hospital. The hon MEC himself said that the information that Mr Bozas had given me was not correct. However, he admitted that there were three answers. He gave me an answer that was not correct.

[Inaudible.]

Yes, I admit that. He gave me an answer which I conveyed here and Mr Bozas is an honourable man. I now want to read for the benefit of all hon members how the hon MEC took the issue out of context. My question was, and I quote:

1. (i) India and Pakistan
2. (ii) Egypt
3. (iii) Other foreign countries.

I was not referring to India only, if that is what the hon MEC tried to indicate. My next question, and this was the crux of the matter, reads as follows, and I quote:

I was not referring only to Stanger Hospital. However, in the reply many hospitals were listed—the King Edward VIII Hospital, Christ the King Hospital and R K Khan Hospital. My question at yesterday’s session was why Stanger was not listed in the letter that I had received. The hon MEC is obviously in variance with his own colleague, because his colleague, the hon MEC Mr Naidoo then got up in response to a further question and admitted that he was aware of the problem at Stanger. Yet the hon MEC Mr Volker said that there was not a problem at Stanger.

I want to tell the hon MEC that he must not treat us with contempt and I want to tell him why he should stop treating us with contempt. A letter was written to him, not by an ordinary MP, but by the hon the Deputy Minister in the House of Delegates. This letter was dated 29 January 1988. A subsequent letter was also written to him on 24 February 1988, during last year’s session of this provincial debate. The hon the Deputy Minister had to solicit the assistance of another hon Minister to reach the hon MEC. To date no visits have been made to the hospitals in the hon the Deputy Minister’s constituency, in spite of an understanding that this would be done during the recess. To date no written acknowledgement has been given. That is the information that I have. I have all the documents in front of me. If a Deputy Minister can be treated with such contempt, what chance do ordinary MPs have of establishing any kind of rapport with the hon MEC?

I am convinced beyond any reasonable doubt that as a result of the misinformation given to hon members, what the hon MEC was trying to avoid by his outburst earlier was not to do the conventional thing. Convention demands that when a person presents false information to Parliament, he is bound by honour to resign. [Interjections.]

I shall be awaiting your resignation!

I would like to suggest, or rather, I call upon the hon MEC, as well as his colleagues in charge of hospital services, to resign. [Interjections.] I know that the hon MEC would not take that. This is why he came here and tried to camouflage these issues that I had raised.

I now wish to deal with the hon MEC who has come to the rescue of his colleague. I want to say to the hon MEC in charge of local government that he can relax. I am not going to call for his resignation. He said here that he had problems with the chairman of the Natal Association of Local Affairs Committees. Why? Because oblique criticism was levelled at him and other officials and colleagues. He said that he had a problem with this man because of his attitude, to use his own words. I would like to tell the hon MEC that he should take heed of the words uttered by the hon the Administrator, that this is a period that must be used as a bridging mechanism. This is not a time to amplify any divisions and bring about greater polarisation.

I want to say to the hon MEC that it was Dr Buthelezi who also very strongly criticised him. That did not deter him from still negotiating and talking to him. He admitted that the RSC and the joint executive are ongoing things. I see that as a positive attitude, so why can the same attitude not be adopted to maintain communications with the Natal Association of LACs? It took a long time. I was involved with the Natal Association of LACs. We had separate Coloured and Indian associations. Thanks to people like the late Leslie van Wyk and others we managed to get the communities together. That was a positive step. That was progress. What we perceive right now is the MEC’s role in trying to see these bodies as being ethnically separate. This will bring about division and I would suggest that one should do the opposite, rather than bring about division on a racial or ethnic basis.

I also want to refer to the hon MEC’s statement. He tried to suggest that I did not understand the contents and the provisions as contained in the Free Settlement Areas Act which was recently promulgated. I would like to submit to the hon MEC that I do understand them. I might not be an attorney, as I said yesterday, but what I do say is that the hon MEC sometimes does have difficulties with legislation as was evident yesterday. I therefore think that he should be the last person to criticise my abilities.

I want to say for the record that I am not in any way suggesting that the province should, in fact, go around and create free settlements areas. However, the hon MEC gave advice to Pietermaritzburg when they asked for direct representation. He did not see that as a peripheral role. He came down very strongly on the City Council of Pietermaritzburg, telling them what to do and how to go about doing their job.

In the same light I want to ask him to get a conference or indaba going. I am not asking him to pass any laws or change the ordinances. He is incapable of doing that. He will not be able to do that. I realise that, but he should get people together and appraise them of the situation, namely what the total implications of free settlement areas will be so that the local authorities can see this in the light of their own aspirations. That exercise is not in any way trying to create free settlement areas throughout the province per se. However, it will enlighten local authorities and their appendages, the LACs which are frustrated, so that they understand the situation clearly.

I want to conclude by expressing a word of thanks and gratitude to the hon the Administrator for all that he has done for us whenever we come to Pietermaritzburg. I do appreciate that. Belated as it may be, I also want to thank the previous chairman, Mr Botha, for his role and our association that we enjoyed while he was chairman of the Natal committee. I want to say that we have started off on a good note with the new chairman. I trust that our relationship will help and benefit Natal as a whole and all the people of Natal.

Mr Chairman, I want to thank the Town and Regional Planning Commission for launching a research project in respect of the industrial trends and prospects in Natal/ Kwazulu. The two main reasons for this research project were, firstly, to obtain information about the nature and sources of industrial growth within Region E, and secondly, to suggest policies which might enhance industrial development and employment creation.

Dr Tomlinson and Messrs Pretorius and Addleson have produced a very interesting report which contains a wealth of valuable information about the nature and sources of industrial growth within our region. This information is very important for effective decision-making and further serves to make one aware of the importance of the manufacturing sector in the regional economy.

Whether one agrees with all the inferences and suggestions of the authors of this report is in my opinion not important. The fact of the matter is that the report stimulates innovative thinking and a realisation of the urgency with which we will all have to work to find ways and means of revitalising the economy in this region in order, inter alia, to address one of the most serious problems in this region, namely unemployment.

Job creation for the thousands of unemployed people in our region will have to be afforded one of the highest priorities by all decision-makers in our region, including this administration, the private sector and Central Government. This is so because if urgent and drastic attention and action are not forthcoming, the unemployed in our region, and especially in and around the Durban-Pietermaritzburg area, will soon run into millions. The security, political and social implications should we not succeed in our efforts in this regard, need not be elaborated on. Suffice it to say that the consequences will be disastrous for our entire region.

Industrial employment is very heavily concentrated in a limited number of very basic industrial sectors in our region. There is little growth in other sectors, where the absolute number of employees is in any event small. The share of the manufacturing industry in our economy is greater than in the rest of the nation, and the industrial structure of Region E is also less diverse.

The authors of the report are particularly concerned about the overall reduction of employment opportunities in this region, which is highlighted in numerous trends that are examined in this report. The trends would hardly be discernible in data before 1980, and they reveal a trimming of the labour force in absolute terms, and not merely a process involving the deconcentration of employment.

A worrying fact is that the trends further indicate that there has been a substantial decline in job opportunities for unskilled workers. Nevertheless it is at this end of the labour market where jobs ought to be readily available, in order to utilise the most abundant human resources of our region. The weight of cutbacks in employment appears to fall on the least skilled, least productive workers—the unskilled workers in general. Amongst the somewhat more skilled group there are also those who do not escape the effects of a reduction in the mean size of the labour force. Especially in the larger factories, there is evidence of an attempt to reduce costs by substituting female for male employees.

It appears that amongst the larger employing units the demand for unskilled labour and opportunities for employment are decreasing quite rapidly. The level of skill being utilised in the manufacturing sector is therefore increasing in relative terms. According to the report there is nevertheless a logical explanation in the combination of increased trade union activity and accelerating inflation over the period of the survey. Both of these factors, but union activity in particular, will according to this report have a major impact on larger manufacturing operations. It seems that the only category where employment has not declined between 1980 and 1985 in relation to the previous period, is that of managerial employees.

Industrial development and the associated increases in output and employment have a central role to play to improve the growth rate of employment opportunities in our region. Because final demand industries such as food and clothing are important in our region, increases in disposable income in the region will go directly towards supporting the growth of industry and employment, further income growth and more employment. In the short term the initiating increases in disposable income have to be generated by getting more out of the existing expenditure, by using resources more productively and by reducing costs. This is the sort of logic that already underlies the Government’s attempts to improve efficiency in some State-run organisations. This logic is to be extended into every sphere of policy-making, and it must guide the implementation of policy in our region.

The solution is to be more flexible in the standards that are required, and generally to deregulate. Policies of deregulation, if they are sufficiently extensive in their scope, can immediately provide new economic opportunities and offer social benefits without adding to the costs of production in the region. They free resources without necessarily committing additional ones, and the application of such policies is a matter of common sense, guided by the principle that the object is always to provide individuals with easier and cheaper access to resources, products and employment opportunities.

Most of the economic activity occurs in the greater Durban area. To attempt to offset this process is wasteful. We will have to plan so as to encourage the natural economic forces and manage them, not try to thwart them. A relatively large proportion of the existing resources will, according to the report, have to be thrown into managing the development of the Durban area, and fewer resources into other areas. Rather than contracting for and setting up elaborate structures to provide thousands of housing units, the authorities should facilitate a market for very low-cost housing. Attention should be given to improving the utilisation of resources in line with the dictates of economic efficiency.

In brief, this means making as much use as possible of the comparative advantages which our region possesses in respect of natural and human resources. In the case of our region, the comparative advantages lie in the size of the population and the available skills, the suitability of land for agricultural purposes and the harbour, all of which make the Durban area an ideal base for export-orientated industries and those which require bulky imports. Also important, of course, is the region’s potential to attract tourists.

I am very optimistic about the future of our region. I am very optimistic about the future of our country. I have full confidence in the hon the Administrator and Exco. I have full confidence in our Government. We have a Government that is prepared to take bold initiatives to boost South African exports and to expand our industrial sector in partnership with the private sector. The new export incentives which were revealed by Mr Danie Steyn at the weekend will contribute to the expansion of the industrial sector in our region and boost exports from our region.

The Federated Chamber of Industries has hailed what it calls “a radical new package of export incentives” as the potential trigger to the biggest boost to South African trade on world markets in decades. The executive director, Mr Ron Haywood, said that the package was aimed not only at a dramatic increase in export income, but also at an expansion of the whole industrial sector in order to create thousands of new jobs.

Mr Haywood further said the Federated Chamber of Industries believed that if the public and private sectors co-operated the package could lay new industrial foundations and create the image of a South Africa Incorporated on world markets, a new version of the Japan Incorporated thinking that kindled the economic miracles of many Far East countries in recent years. He said that we are on the right track in planning to make our mark as a powerful new competitor on international markets. We may now have the chance to alter not only the structure of our manufacturing sector, but our whole mental attitude towards our real economic potential.

Let us now, as decision-makers in this beautiful province, together with the decision-makers in the private sector, take the initiative. Let us run with the ball. It is of vital importance to the people of this province we represent. Let us do it for the future of our region and all its peoples. Let us do it for the future of our country and all its peoples.

Mr Chairman, I should like to avail myself of the opportunity to comment on the various standpoints adopted by hon members this afternoon. I should specifically like to comment to some extent on the contribution made by the hon member for Umhlatuzana.

In the first place I want to say that we have taken thorough cognizance of the content of his speech. Secondly, I want to associate myself with the general comments made by the hon the Administrator in this regard this afternoon.

†In fact, Sir, I simply want to dwell on one aspect of what he told us. This regards the question of the statistics. As a student of the science of statistics, particularly the science of biometry, I want to say that we have here what is classically called a skewed distribution, which can tend to give one a misleading picture. I briefly want to explain why this is so. In short, the figures—and I have tried to jot them down—in essence illustrates to us that proportionately speaking the Executive Committee has granted more permits to non-Whites seeking to reside in White group areas than they have in the reverse situation. Proportionately speaking, there were more. I think it was 71% of what had been granted.

The hon member also pointed out that where particular permits had not been granted and where appeals were in fact lodged—and remember that a very small proportion of appeals are in fact lodged—80% of those appeals were granted. Finally, he also pointed out that the figures revealed that no appeals were granted where the appeal was in the reverse direction, in other words where a permit had been granted and the appeal was against its granting.

I want to explain that when we encountered this situation there was one de facto situation with which we found ourselves having to deal, namely that we had existing grey areas which were White group areas in terms of their group area designation. We never had a similar type of grey area where Whites had infiltrated an Indian or a Coloured area. The only de facto situation we found was where there was already on investigation a heavy intrusion of people other than White into a White group area. Therefore, in looking at those particular situations, we not only granted permits, but we also followed that up with a request to the Group Areas Board that they reconsider the whole group areas permit boundary in that area. We were placed in a very difficult situation because we were looking at an area where, historically, already 50% was occupied by other groups; whether with permits or not, is not the question. That is what we found.

I can therefore quote numerous examples, but the fact that that situation existed has skewed the distribution with regard to the statistics. Therefore I do not think great relevance should be placed on the statistics in a comparative way, as to the permits for various groups, etc.

Mr Chairman, I would like to ask the hon member a question regarding the statistics presented to me by the department and by the hon member here today. I do not want to dwell on the details, but would the hon the MEC agree that from the statistics there seems to be a greater gravitation towards the White areas, more so than towards the other areas? That is the only point I want to make.

No, I acknowledge that. That is so. There are reasons for that as well. I do not want to dwell on this at length. It has been handled by the hon the Administrator and as I have said we take note of the content of the hon member’s speech.

I would also like to deal this afternoon with the matters raised by the hon member for Umzinto. Firstly, I want to assure him that one of the most urgent necessities in the whole Park Rynie/ Umzinto North/Umzinto development area is a structured plan to enable us to give renewed attention to the demarcation of local authority boundaries in that area, where it is clear that with such a demarcation we will overcome that anomaly. This would apply, for argument’s sake, in the case mentioned by the hon member, where there is a wide open space in the backyard of an Indian commercial site. I have been there, I have seen the circumstances, and we have discussed, with the town clerk of Umzinto North, the need to make an application for a structured plan in order that we can address that whole problem.

I do want to say, however, that there is a misconception held by the hon member that all those services that are provided for the development areas are in fact free. They are not. They are charged in every instance to those communities and in particular those two development areas. Not only do they pay their way in their entirety, but they are paying their way sufficiently to start building up a surplus so that they can eventually fund themselves into autonomous areas. That is revealed in the latest DSB statistics.

When I was in Umzinto recently and I had a meeting with the local authority. I mentioned to them that we have to stop looking over our shoulders and complaining about what happened in the past. That was not to say that what happened in the past was not important to them, but that we rather had to be forward looking. They took the discussion in very good spirit. They have problems with inexperienced staff and squabbling amongst the staff, of which I am sure the hon member is very much aware.

We are giving a great deal of attention to trying to help Umzinto North become viable. I think one of our major contributions is the new magnificent beachfront which nobody has mentioned yet, but it is the first major project on the beaches that has been completed.

I would like next to come to the fiery and formidable hon member for Potgietersrus. I do sincerely hope that with age he mellows, but certainly he puts his point of view across with great gusto. I want to say that we can get into a game playing with words, about de facto and de jure and what was custom some years ago and what is custom today. All I want to say is that I am sure he and I agree that we live in changing times and that certainly what my father or my grandfather accepted as the custom and what my father did and what I in turn do reveal a marked change. I will concede quite freely that the de facto situation 20 years ago was that the beaches were White.

Five years ago.

No, not five years ago—not that I know of. But let us split the difference and say 15 years ago, if the hon member prefers. The de facto situation was that they were White, because the White community was the community that had the wherewithal and the privileged access to the economy of the country and so on and was able to use the beaches. That was the de facto situation.

However, never in this province has there been a de jure situation, namely a legal situation prohibiting other groups from using the beaches. There just never has been that situation. So I do not want to get into an argument about that. I am sure we can agree to differ in a friendly way. However, I want to say that the essential difference between the hon member for Potgietersrus and me is this: I was at that very beloved resort of Umhloti last Sunday when several people got into difficulties—I watched this happen—and there was grave danger that they were going to drown. The experienced ones went with the current, saved themselves and got out. I am the one who is prepared to go with the current in order to save myself. That hon member is the one who is trying to swim against the current and will in fact eventually either have to have a lifesaver pull him out, or he will drown. That is the only difference. [Interjections.]

Mr Chairman, I would just like to know whether the hon MEC remembers or is taking cognizance of the fact that the ratio of Whites to Blacks in South Africa is 5:25 as far as beaches are concerned and as far as all amenities are concerned.

Order! The hon member may proceed.

Yes, I will proceed, Sir. I am afraid I shall have to ask the hon member to explain his question later. I would like to have answered it, but I do not understand it.

I want to give the hon member Mr Hattingh the absolute assurance that the sensitive nature of the KwaMevana situation in Howick is clearly understood. I want to thank him for his positive contribution to finding solutions to that problem. I agree with him, and I assure him that the matter will be handled as sensitively as possible, taking the interests of all the parties concerned into consideration. In that particular situation I do, however, want to place on record that no one particular group of people is going to be able to get its way in time. There is going to have to be an element of compromise in the geographic situation we find ourselves in right in the middle of Howick.

I come now to the hon member for Stanger. I want to say in all humility that probably no person who now or in the past has ever held the position that I now hold, has ever gone out of his way more to be available and to be accommodating to LACs and, in particular, to Nalac. In fact it has been said by a wiser head than mine that the discourtesy with which I have been treated by Nalac in the immediate past is in fact precisely because I have gone out of my way to the extent that I have in order to accommodate them. In fact, I have been accommodating to the extent that I have lost the respect that the office, if not I as a person, deserves in this particular situation. I would ask the hon member, since he has considerable influence there, to see whether he could contribute towards a better atmosphere in that regard.

You have my word.

I want to say about the question of the so-called effort of mine to split local affairs committees on an ethnic basis, that the interesting fact is that I am being inundated with direct requests from Indian LACs to permit them to come to the meeting that I have set up for the Coloured LACs. After today, I am going to allow them to come, so that they can come and hear for themselves and are not influenced in advance by the current Nalac leadership so that their ears are closed to hearing any point of view other than the one they have rammed down their throats at Nalac all the time. That, I think, will make a significant contribution, and I thank the hon members of the House of Representatives …

Mr Chairman, would the hon MEC agree that so far as Nalac is concerned, it is composed of both the groups. Its president is an Indian, and its vice-president is a Coloured. Is he aware of that?

I know that to be a fact.

I now come to the next point, and I just want to say that there are those of us in the office of MEC who carry a workload which I am sure most members do not actually appreciate. I certainly want to say that as much as it is desirable to organise indabas and PRO-type functions to explain the content of legislation passed at the national level to constituents and LACs, I think perhaps it would be a major contribution that elected public representatives could make if they could explain to their constituents exactly what the content of legislation is. We do our level best wherever we can to make sure that our local authorities and LACs understand the legislation with which they have to deal, but to expect us at this early stage—with an Act that is hardly a month old—to have held indabas and PRO and information sessions with LACs and to have explained to them everything they could achieve as a result of that Act, is asking a bit much, particularly in the light of the workload that I, certainly, have to carry in my contribution to this administration.

I have now dealt with the matters I wished to deal with this evening.

Mr Chairman, it is indeed a pleasure and an honour to be participating in this debate. This is, in effect, my maiden speech in this auspicious Chamber.

From the outset I wish to place on record that I concur with and also associate myself with all the kind sentiments, and particularly the accolades, expressed and extended by the previous speakers to the hon the Administrator, his Exco and also to both the present and the past chairmen of the Natal joint committee.

While the previous speakers have embarked on a wide range of issues, I wish to deal specifically with the fragmentation and lack of co-ordination and consultation in the hospital and medical services in the province and the KwaZulu health area.

The problems in this regard are no doubt representative of the problems occurring countrywide because of fragmentation. While I shall be using the three hospitals in Pietermaritzburg as an example, this is applicable throughout the province where provincial hospitals cater for a rural community.

An hon member previously suggested that some of these communities pay for our services. Fragmentation creates a serious problem in the co-ordinating of services, because while there is the perennial cry that the country’s financial resources are severely constrained, we have this willy-nilly and, let it be said, foolhardy duplication, sometimes triplication, of equipment, of staff, of services with the inevitable increase in the cost of health services and health care.

We have a situation whereby the NPA runs, on an agency basis, health services for Coloureds, Indians and Whites. Yet there seems to be no clarity as to who precisely carries the responsibility and for what, in terms of health care for these population groups, let alone the Black communities. A most disturbing spin-off of this situation is that considerable suspicion and lack of confidence is generated on the part of some doctors.

The evils of fragmentation become even more evident when one considers, by comparison, the disparity in the monetary allocation provided by the budget. How can it be justified that large sums are continuously allocated to an establishment which has been recently built and superbly appointed, a hospital which is only 20% occupied by indigent patients? I have it on good authority that this is 20% and not 65%. The rest of this hospital is occupied by private patients. There is the possibility that two to three private hospitals are likely to be built in Pietermaritzburg within a year or so. These establishments must of necessity deplete the intake of both the out-patients and the in-patients at such hospitals as Grey’s, which, although designed for further expansion, have not been utilised to their full potential. Wards at these hospitals have not been commissioned because of lack of demand. These hospitals thus face the stark possibility of being White elephants.

On the other side of the medical scale, we have the case of the Imbali clinic which was specifically built for Black patients, which also faces the prospect of being a White elephant, and here the unfortunate turn of phrase is applicable. The lack of consultation and co-ordination also resulted in its becoming a White elephant in a Black area. This is what I am trying to get at.

Is that Mr Whyte speaking?

That’s right, it is Mr Whyte speaking, not Mr Black Elephant.

At the time of its completion, there was no apparent negotiation as to who was to run the clinic. KwaZulu could not provide the financial infrastructure because of relative inexperience and also because of the protracted clerical negotiations before an appointment could be approved. The Natal Provincial Hospital Services could not undertake this prospect, also because of financial constraints. It has now been mooted that the private sector should take this over.

Another problem is the utilisation of equipment in health services. With regard to the CAT scanner at Grey’s, my information is that this piece of equipment is extremely under-utilised. The fact is that it is only available in dire emergencies to patients at Edendale. This has necessitated the transportation of some 412 patients to Wentworth, thus overburdening an already impossibly stretched facility, while in Pietermaritzburg the scanner is underutilised. Lives have been and will be lost and what is of singular importance is that Edendale has lost a full-time neurosurgeon.

Fragmentation and lack of co-ordination is highlighted by the following, should I add, ludicrous situation. Psychiatric in-patients fall under the NPA. The out-patients fall under the community health arm of own affairs. Thus, conceivably patients at the same hospital can be seen by two sets of doctors should they change from outpatients to in-patients.

Another aspect is the lack of co-operation in the distribution of the workload among the three hospitals in Pietermaritzburg. Northdale and particularly Grey’s have a very light workload, while their colleagues at Edendale, where the beds are grossly overutilised, have to contend with a huge patient-load.

To further compound this unequal distribution of specialists there exists the grave and disturbing aspect of Edendale, where, because of such factors as unbearable workloads, the appalling living conditions—which I am being told are now being improved—and the poor timing of doctors’ salaries—apparently no doctor at Edendale has ever received his pay on time—there is a very high turnover of medical personnel. In the surgical departments, for instance, this loss of continuity poses a hazard to patients. This is a tragic situation, because Edendale remains one of the most important teaching hospitals in Natal, I am informed. It is generally felt that every effort should be made to keep it so. However, regrettably many of the doctors there are frightened off by the inefficient and sometimes uncaring attitudes of the administration, compounded by a hospital which is poorly staffed, is in a poor state of repair and has a chronic shortage of basic essentials.

Coming to the question of staffing, it would appear that in the past Northdale and Grey’s shared their staff, but recently this has been changed to apply only to consultants and interns. Medical officers are given a limited number of posts which are available on a racial basis. It is a matter of fact that this system is counterproductive in terms of distribution of manpower and expertise and must of necessity lead to a deterioration of the services available to patients.

Another factor of importance is that there is a total lack of bed space for Black private patients and inadequate accommodation for other non-White groups. An important factor is that Blacks are increasingly becoming members of medical aid societies. The situation therefore arises that the medical practitioner can see his patient in his rooms, but should the patient require hospitalisation a problem arises. Some medical practitioners have been advised to send their patients to Durban, because there only mixed accommodation exists. Much has been said about trust land and other such forms of land. I am reliably informed that the area of Edendale per se falls neither under KwaZulu nor under Natal. While the hospital itself falls under KwaZulu, the area immediately outside the hospital does not. How then can the problems of immunisation, sanitation, refuse disposal and road transport be co-ordinated?

I am incidentally talking about road transport. The access road to Edendale, which is amongst the five busiest hospitals in the country, remains a disaster and a hazard to life and limb and of course to vehicles.

In conclusion, health services cannot be run along compartmentalised lines. It goes without saying that disease knows no boundaries or race. There have been cases where some areas do not officially fall under either Natal or KwaZulu. We thus have a nightmarish situation where immunisation programmes have bypassed these areas. Epidemics and their precipitating factors can arise with devastating effect. The solution is easy, these specialist hospitals should be deregulated, so to speak, and used as referral hospitals for all sectors of the community.

Mr Chairman, the devastating floods in September and October 1987, followed by the floods in February 1988, are regarded as the largest natural disaster that South Africa has ever experienced. The effects and the causes of the disaster have not yet been overcome.

I can clearly remember that just after the floods the MPs of the affected areas, along with various hon Ministers and the hon the Administrator, flew over large areas of Natal and assessed the situation. It was disconcerting to see what condition the catchment areas of many of the rivers, of which many were situated in KwaZulu, were in. During a flood some rivers, such as the Umfolozi River, look more like stormwater drainage canals than rivers.

We are grateful that the Directorate: Physical Planning is involved in a planning strategy with regard to various catchment areas. We trust that the investigations which are being conducted by them and by various other departments will ultimately result in the necessary planning being done and steps being taken to avoid possible disasters of a similar nature in the future or to largely restrict the extent of them.

Millions of cubic metres of sand are lying in the Umfolozi River, waiting to be carried downstream during another flood and once again cause great drama. A co-ordinated attempt to stabilise the Umfolozi River and its catchment area is of the utmost importance. It is no use spending millions of rands to help people every time we have a flood, but failing to deal with the direct causes of the flood and the accompanying results.

I am requesting the Development and Services Board to give attention to the reconstruction and/or the repair of roads in the little towns at Hluhluwe, Kwa-Mbonambi, Louwsburg and St Lucia, which were damaged largely as a result of the floods. Some of the roads in these towns are in a very poor condition and really deserve urgent attention.

We are also concerned about the fact that our roads department is once again coming off second best and we trust that the Provincial Administration will do everything in its power to ensure that the roads in the remote areas—also those in my constituency—receive the necessary attention. The people living in the remote areas also pay tax and purchase licences and drive their vehicles to pieces providing services to and manufacturing goods and food for the people in the urban areas who find themselves on tarred roads every day.

As a result of the continual high costs involved in the provision of water to the small population of St Lucia, the Provincial Administration had to render further assistance to the St Lucia Water Supply Scheme at a cost of R373 000 during the past year. While I thank them for that, I ask that they should continue to render assistance there as a result of the unique circumstances. Water is so expensive there that one can virtually only bath once a week. One can also not add it to one’s whisky. One drinks neat whisky in St Lucia because the water is so expensive. [Interjections.]

Furthermore, I am making an urgent request that assistance should be given to the Regional Water Service Co-operative of North Eastern Zululand with regard to the water supply system in Hluhluwe. The water supply pipe from the Hluhluwe Dam is in a terrible condition and the community will not be able to bear the total replacement costs in that regard. As a result assistance is also very important in this case.

A further matter which I would like to mention, is the closing of the railway crossing in Mtubatuba. I told the Deputy Minister of Transport Affairs—I am repeating it here—that I was not happy about the way in which the matter was dealt with. I, as representative of that area, was not consulted at any stage in that regard and I am once again expressing my dissatisfaction with that.

As a result of the fact that the railway crossing was closed to traffic, the bypass road and the bridge were subsidised by the Department of Transport. The town has now been divided in two. In order to travel from one part of the town to the other, one must now leave the town completely and drive around it outside the municipal area. This is an unsatisfactory situation and the result is that despite the bridge for pedestrians which has been built there, the businesses are bordering on bankruptcy. An incisive survey is presently being done there and as soon as the facts are available, we shall give them to the administration.

The Provincial Administration would eventually have built a bypass road anyway. As a result of these circumstances, the construction of the road was done more quickly. I know that the administration had not planned to build it now already, but the fact remains that they would have done so at some stage in the future. The only way in which we will now be able to re-open this crossing, would be to recover the costs involved in the building of the bypass road and the bridge from somewhere. The local authority is prepared to man this crossing on a 24-hour basis and to ensure that it is safe so that no possible incidents will take place there. With better planning, one would have been able to build a bridge at that place without the disruption which has now been caused there.

I would like to thank the hon MEC Mr Volker for the sympathetic way in which he is attending to the matter. He has already visited the town on two occasions. He was also a member of the deputation to the Cape which the hon the Minister addressed in this regard. However, the outcome of those representations were still unsatisfactory and we ask the province to come to our aid in this regard.

Finally, I would like to congratulate Dr George Hughes on his appointment as director of the Natal Parks Board. I want to put it to the hon the Administrator that a fresh breeze is blowing with regard to nature conservation in Natal. As a result of the dictatorial actions of certain officials in the past, some of the voters in my constituency regarded the Parks Board as something worse than the ANC.

Or the AWB!

Or the AWB! Largely as a result of the diplomatic way in which the new director is prepared to listen to problems which voters have and to deal with them, the whole climate is changing for the better.

Mr Chairman, at the very outset I wish to say a few things about the hon the Administrator. I do not want to say much lest I embarrass him, because much has already been said. However, from hearing him yesterday and today we must be absolutely proud to have a man of his calibre and standing. I think he enjoys two God-given things, namely the full confidence of the people of colour in Natal and a wisdom from which flows the knowledge of all things. We are much richer today than we were yesterday after listening to the advice he gave and the other things he said.

At the same time I also want to thank the previous chairman of this committee who started the committee without knowing anything about it. He did a magnificent piece of work and I must say that dealing with politicians is not always an easy thing. However, we have somehow found our way through and I want to compliment him on a job well done. At the same time I welcome and thank the new chairman who undoubtedly will steer the ship in the same manner as it was done before. There has certainly been a tremendous improvement from last year to this year in the programme and the procedures which were adopted here.

Before I make my proper address here this afternoon, I just want to refer to the hon member for South Coast. In his address he actually gave a very long historical background of this building in which we are. In my opinion, and I believe that of many of us, this building should remain in the hands of the province as a general affairs building. I do know that in the corridors there are discussions that this historical building should be taken over by the House of Assembly for own affairs. If that should be the case, I should like to say right now that it might be a step in the wrong direction.

Having said that, I want to say that this is the second historical occasion I have of addressing this joint committee. It certainly comes at a time when many major developments, in more than one direction, are taking place in and around South Africa. There are the peace initiative in Angola, the British Prime Minister’s visit to Africa, the reconsideration of disinvestment in South Africa by the international world, and the continuing fall of the gold price, coupled with increasing unemployment, which is certainly a matter for deep concern. I must point out that the changing phases, in Natal and in different levels of government, in the political scene in South Africa, together with an attempt at clean administration, has sparked off much concern and confusion. I do hope that some time or other we will be able to find ways of addressing this.

Having said that, I wish to point out that if this country and its government components honestly want to bring about good will, stability and participation by all peoples in an arena where constitutional change with full participation can take place, there are two very important factors. The first is to provide enough money and residential land for the people of colour. Unless this goal is achieved, I am afraid that this tricameral system could very well crumble. I believe an indaba of local government and local affairs committees at this level should take place, although the hon MEC in charge of local government has given reasons, relating to his workload, why this is not practical. He did not give me good reasons to convince me that this is not necessary.

The hon the Administrator has comprehensively reported on the financial status of the budget presented to us. He has no doubt expressed certain reservations where he believes funds have fallen short. I associate myself with him, and would like to request the Government to stop spending money on promoting and protecting outdated laws which are not workable in this day and age in South Africa.

I am perhaps disturbed by one aspect, although I do not say there is no need. However, I do believe that finances should be given where the need is greatest. What I am referring to is that I find that R47 million has been given to the Parks Board, yet the hon MEC in charge of local government and the hon the Administrator are crying out at our humble plea for more money. Only R2 million has been provided—we are awaiting another R5 million—to address the very major issue and problem which this province faces, namely the squatter problem. I do not know where our priority lies. I do not know how this can take place.

This Government has for many years now almost bent over backwards trying to get people of colour to participate in the system, but has not yet succeeded favourably. What I am now going to say may raise some eyebrows in this Committee. This is an honest commitment and my own evaluation of this issue. I think we must look at Boksburg. What do we learn from that town? We learn that the people of South Africa, irrespective of their colour or creed, say to us that they are sick and tired of petty and hurtful laws. In their attempt to eradicate this monster what have we witnessed? The coming together of people of different race groups, including the Whites. I salute these people, because we as human beings all have values. Even if they have forgotten all the other things, they certainly have a sense of survival. I think we in South Africa are on a course where this is essential. We need to have security and a livelihood and be able to live together.

I know that for some time to come the political and economic directions may come from the White community, but there must be a partnership engagement between Whites and Blacks, because the Blacks cannot do without the Whites, nor can the Whites do without the Blacks. This is therefore certainly something which we have to address together, in order to achieve what we all want to do.

Coming to certain matters which relate to my region and constituency, I wish to appeal to the hon MEC in charge of local government to make amendments to the necessary ordinances or regulations in order to make it compulsory for council members to sit in at LAC meetings. The Development and Services Board also has open meetings. I want to read to the hon MEC one or two things which necessitate this. I just want to read from a letter regarding the proposed library and activities room for the Wyebank Indian community. I quote:

The council set this up in the agenda of the local affairs committee. I continue:

I find this very strange, but I heard yesterday that the director of libraries indicated that the architect had been appointed. How was this possible, without rescinding this council’s decision on the deferment of the architect’s appointment? Is this administration operating correctly?

I want to go on to a further matter, namely the issue of the Development and Services Board. I want to make it abundantly clear in this Committee that the money for the development of the Welbedacht area did not come from the House of Delegates, nor did it come from this Provincial Administration.

It came from the Development Aid Fund—I refer to this amount of R2,4 million. I and I alone know the history of that. Since then we had a tussle before we could get this money out, because the House of Delegates received this amount from the Development Aid Fund and put it into the care of the National Housing Commission. The National Housing Commission could not give us this money, because it wanted to charge us interest. So I said we could not do that, because that would have meant making the poor even poorer.

However, in a document which was adopted by the Natal Provincial Administration, one item in that regard read “The Durmat Road Construction, Capital Vote 80-3-26-70-75-30 for R633 000”. Perhaps it is a first or second phase. I am not going to dispute that. Later a letter was sent to me by the Development and Services Board which queried the delay and conveyed the frustration that was building up in that area. A reply came to me stating that the project comprising the reconstructing of the Durmat Road development area of Welbedacht at a cost not exceeding R1 270 335 would be approved.

I do not know whether we only spend money which we get from the Government after a long and tedious fight. I will name them if need be, but I do not want to embarrass them because they are not here to defend themselves. They have categorically told this consultative committee not to communicate with the MP and not to have anything to do with him. I requested to sit in at one of those meetings as an observer. I was denied that right. Now, I want to know what is the meaning of consultation.

Last year the hon the Administrator said—and I still remember it because it rings in my ears: “We do not just plan for the people. We plan with them.” If that is so, what is happening? The consultative committee in Durmat did not want to take this job, but I influenced them to do so, because it would have been better for the people that we wanted to serve.

Recently the Development and Services Board wrote a letter to the House of Delegates, a copy of which was sent to me. The letter was dated 10 February 1989. They say in one of their paragraphs:

Sir, that is an insult to me! They refused me permission to sit in on their meeting, and yet, when they want money, they come to me. I want to be honest about this. These are our frustrations and these are the circumstances under which we work. I want the MEC to take cognisance of this and to bear with me. I am not a difficult man. I am not asking for bouquets and garlands, but when people have a job to do, they must get on with it. They must answer from time to time as to what progress they have made. If they have reasonable excuses and reasonable answers, I am prepared to accept them. I would not just turn somebody away. That area had no government, no local authority, no funds, no nothing! Nobody wanted to know those people. However, as soon as money came in, we started doing things. I just want to tell this Committee that I do not want to be just a lamp post. I have a job to do and I have the responsibility of my people for whom I work. This message must go out loud and clear.

I also wish to address this Committee regarding another sad issue. Unfortunately, for some reason or another, provision has not been made to adequately cater for road MR 468. I am deeply distressed, because in February 1989 there were three fatal accidents on this road, apart from the many dozens of accidents that we have had in the past year. I would like the hon MEC to tell me where else a major road traverses a high-density developed residential area where adequate provision for the safety of the people is not provided.

In 1986 this road was reputed to be a very notorious road with many black spots. It was painful for me when I was asked to speak at the funeral of a young mother and her child who were killed in February of this year. It hurts me. The volume of traffic in that area is something like 4 300 vehicles per day from 6 am to 6 pm. I did not suck this information out of my thumb. It was given to me by the town clerk for protective services. There are two schools on either side of this road and there are approximately 1 100 kombi taxis that operate daily on this road.

I also want to refer to a property in my constituency, namely Lot 1110. What I am about to say, I say without any fear of contradiction, because sitting in this Committee is an hon member of Parliament belonging to the ruling government party whom I do not want to name at this stage. However, I want to thank him for the initiative that he has taken. He is fully aware of all the problems, including documentation which relates to this matter.

Firstly, this lot was proclaimed in terms of the Group Areas Act, Act 36 of 1966. Mr Cooper wrote a letter stating that this property was purchased by a Mr Walker, but the Deeds Office tells me that the property has been registered in the name of Kloof Marion Pty Ltd since 1972 and has not changed hands as yet. How could Indian proclaimed land be transferred from one White to another in terms of the Group Areas Act when the Indians cannot do it? This is illegal. The property was rezoned from residential to an open area without consulting the local affairs committee of Wyebank.

The town clerk under whose jurisdiction this area falls had assured different government departments and other local authorities that the rezoning of this lot would meet the needs of the Indian community of that area. I have the documentation. It is in my possession. I personally lodged an objection to the council when it had this item on its agenda, but all this has been pushed aside in the haste to have this area rezoned against the wishes of the Pinetown municipality, the Department of Education and Culture, the Ratepayers’ Association of Pinetown, the LACs, the Wyebank Local Affairs Committee and the Education Committee of the Pinetown school. However, this council proceeded to do just what it wanted to do. The feeling amongst our people is now to contest this matter in court, because the net result of this is that 490 innocent primary school children have become the victims of this saga. The Natal Provincial Administration needs the site where the present school is, because there is a major road construction programme going on.

I want to thank the Administration because it has been so kind and so co-operative that it considered the plight of those children and went around the building, costing the taxpayer and other people money, in order to satisfy the needs of those school children. It is a pathetic situation. That is why hon members will find that we who speak from this side of the House are disillusioned about this devolution of power to the local authorities. These are the pains and aches that we go through.

Who rezoned the property?

The Kloof municipality. Before my time expires, I want to join my colleague, the hon member for Pinetown, and touch on the Mariannhill squatter problem and clear up certain things. I am in agreement with what has been said. I am not in variance with it.

I want to assure the Committee that I was not a silent partner in this entire exercise. I represented the whole of the Mariannhill area. When I became a member of the SAIC in 1981 I said that members of the Indian, White, Black and Coloured communities resided in that area. The area has industry and commerce to its advantage and as far as I am concerned, it is a mini-South Africa. Whatever can be done and achieved there collectively with consensus can go as a forerunner to the rest of South Africa.

Here is a plan that has been adopted and accepted in principle by all the people. I am a paid-up member of the regional planning committee for the Greater Durban area and I am fully imformed about what is going on. If this area is not proclaimed and the clearances insofar as its control ability and so on is concerned are not given, the ball is not in the court of the House of Delegates.

I want to say something that will astound the hon MECs and perhaps the hon the Administrator. The selling of Lot 6533 to the House of Delegates, which was canvassed and influenced by a councillor in the Pinetown Council who was an agent selling land, was turned down by me. I had a serious argument with the hon the Minister of Housing in the House of Delegates because in 1984-85 I saw what was going to come today. This property does not belong to the House of Delegates. It may be proclaimed Indian, but it is not our responsibility how areas are proclaimed. An individual sold the property through an agency to a White person in a private transaction. [Interjections.]

That councillor—I do not want to name him—wrote to the hon the Administrator in 1987 advising him of the situation in that area. I do not know whether he received this correspondence or not. I want to say in fairness that I have created a kind of understanding. I have built race relationships in that area. We go freely into the Black, White, green and blue areas without any fear of contradiction because we have kept the human race and our relationship in that area cordial for the future of that entire area. It is my desire to maintain that.

The Coloured community has supported the Stockville area being returned to the Indians. They said that they were not farmers and that the land should be returned. That is history but it cannot be forgotten. Therefore I want to say that anybody attempting to cause racial friction or discord among the communities in that area will not rest in peace as far as I am concerned because we have worked tirelessly.

I have returned a whole lot of land to the Black communities of St Wendolin’s, The Ridge, Klaarwater and even Southampton Park. I did that because the Blacks, the Indians, the Whites and the Coloureds have lived there for many years and therefore we have to find an equal distribution of land so that we can live peacefully side by side. This attempt cannot just be wiped out by one stroke of the pen. I want to make it very clear in this Committee that it took us time, understanding and co-operation. I believe that everyone must join in this assistance. Unless and until the problem with regard to the fair distribution of land for residential purposes is addressed fearlessly, we are definitely on the wrong road. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, before I continue with the saga of Luganda that I commenced this morning I would like to make a passing remark to the hon MPs in this Committee, as well as to the hon MECs. Looking about me during the afternoon I found myself amongst the top ten senior MPs in this Committee. This is ironic, since I have only been in Parliament for five years.

You might not be here after the next election.

Well, I have been here longer than the hon member for Umhlanga.

Are you canvassing for leadership?

No, I am not. I am about to make a statement with a sense of humor and possibly with a sense of the dignity of Parliament, and everybody should take it in the broadest context.

The MECs hold a position which is best termed as “peculiar” in the structure of the South African political scene. They are neither public servants that are covered by the Public Service Act, nor are they elected Parliamentary or even provincial members of a political party. Their positions are roughly equivalent to the position of the Administrator as it used to be in the past.

Together with the Ministerial representatives they hold those peculiar semi-political positions. They do not represent their political parties on the Executive Committee but on the other hand they also do not absolutely represent their own “ethnic or racial groups”. They are the MECs of the province of Natal.

I would plead that it be accepted as a parliamentary practice that the MECs should not be attacked by hon MPs for party-political positions that they may hold in their private capacity or for party-political positions that they may have held in the past. The corollary is equally true. I do not think it is becoming of the MECs, the Administrators of the provinces or the Ministerial representatives to attack party-political positions across the floor of a Chamber such as this. It is a matter that I raise with some hesitance but one that I think needs to be raised.

I am going to finish by saying that the CP is a party that we all love to hate. Every other political party is opposed to the CP and the views it represents. That may well be so, but I would request that we be careful that that kind of party-political viewpoint is not carried across to the views transmitted by the MECs. I am not saying that it is, but it is a matter with regard to which we should be very careful and against which we should guard.

I commence on the Luganda community again. In the cases of the Emsomusha and the Luganda communities it is to the benefit of neither the administration nor the developers nor the community that this situation develops. We need to be told whether this administration can handle the problems thrust on it by the devolution of the administration of the Prevention of Illegal Squatting Act. We need to know the role of the NPA in negotiations with threatened communities on private land and in relocating such communities.

Luganda itself needs to be told what their position is in the eyes of the Administration. They know now—at least, I believe they know now—the legal position. They know of the possibility that certain areas in the Greater Mariannhill area might be declared free settlement areas. The Luganda community wanted to know who they had to ask if they wanted to become a free settlement area. Do they appeal to the NPA, the House of Delegates or the Pinetown Council? They want to know that.

If it is an Indian group, they must ask the House of Delegates.

They want to know why their area cannot be a free settlement area. They want to know why part of the Luganda area cannot be set aside as a transit area by the appropriate administration—that is the administration of the NPA, which I do not think is the appropriate one or of the House of Delegates, which I think is appropriate. In terms of the new amendments to the Prevention of Illegal Squatting Act it can be declared partly a transit area. They want to know what ownership rights they will have on any land to which they may have to move.

I do not believe that the NPA wishes to avoid these problems. That has been clearly indicated during today’s debate. What is required is a continual public statement and a clear acknowledgement that the NPA does have a role to play—it must be stated what that role is—and that the funds are available to ensure that people who are evicted have the basic facilities required to ensure survival in our urban areas.

There are a number of remarks that I would like to make on the Group Areas Act and the speech of the hon member for Umhlatuzana. I would prefer to do that tomorrow and will not do so right now.

There are a number of smaller matters that I would like to touch on. Addressing the MEC in charge of local authorities I would be pleased if he could make a remark concerning the situation of the transfer of local authorities to own affairs administrations.

During the course of the past year it has become publicly known that this will occur in at least two of the other provinces, but Natal has not proceeded with it—I am not going to say as yet—and hopefully it never will proceed with it. I believe that it is necessary that the hon the MEC does make such a statement on the position or possible position of the transfer of local authorities to the own affairs administration.

Secondly, regarding the funding of roads, I think obviously the remarks which were made here yesterday during the question and answer session clearly conveyed the strong feelings every hon member of this committee has regarding the inadequacy of the funding of Natal roads. We were told quite categorically that there was a R120 million shortfall in the amount required for the building, maintenance and development of roads in Natal and that the backlog resulting from this shortfall was increasing. Therefore the finger, if it has to be pointed, has to be pointed at the central Government and Treasury regarding the enormity of this problem.

Regarding the Mariannhill toll road, there has been a suggestion made in the Press, I understand by a member of the NP—and I would be interested to see how the hon member for Umhlatuzana will react to it—regarding the fact that the Mooi River toll should be reduced but that the Mariannhill toll should be increased so that the surplus money for Mariannhill could be paid to Tolcon.

Fifty cents is quite sufficient.

I agree with the hon member for Umhlatuzana that fifty cents is not only sufficient, but in fact I do not believe the toll should be there at all, be that as it may. However, there is clear evidence from the public meeting held in Pinetown by the previous Minister of Transport Affairs, Mr Hendrik Schoeman, which in fact indicated that the level of the Mariannhill toll would ensure the payment of the capital sum required to develop the bypass. That was clearly indicated and categorically stated. I will oppose in the strongest possible manner the increase in the Mariannhill toll in order to shift money around.

Thirdly, regarding the question of the new teaching hospital in Cato Manor, we have had various answers in connection with this. The site has also been identified for us. I would plead that the administration make available to the media as well as to hon members of the Extended Committee a memo regarding both the current situation of the King Edward VIII, its capacity and usage, and the programme for the development of Cato Manor. I have the feeling that we are actually in a situation where the King Edward VIII, even though Prince Mshiyeni may take some of its load, will continue to be overburdened for some considerable time, while Cato Manor is being developed. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I would like to thank you for allowing me this opportunity to comment on the status and performance to date of the hospitals and institutions which constitute my portfolio. These are the Stanger Hospital, the G J Crookes Hospital at Scottburgh, the R K Khan Hospital at Chatsworth, Northdale Hospital in Pietermaritzburg and the ambulance service of the NPA.

My colleague, the hon MEC Mr Volker, stole a march on me when he made mention of the various problems with which we are faced with regard to the running of our hospitals. Notwithstanding all these factors, I believe that Natal can be justifiably proud of its hospitals and ambulance service. The standard of medical care offered by our institutions is high and they have and deserve the respect of all the communities they serve.

Time is unfortunately against me, so I will go on to the institutions that I have mentioned. First and foremost on my list is Stanger which was topical today. I want to point out, lest there is a misapprehension, that the MEC in charge of that hospital is not doing his job and that this hospital has been functioning with one theatre for many years. Work is under way to add a second operating theatre and the laboratory has been rehoused in more spacious accommodation. Both of these are interim projects, anticipating the new call block project which will see four new theatres, an X-ray department, an out-patients block, changing rooms for domestic workers, new workshops, etc. This project will cost between R17 million and R21 million and planning is well under way.

I must point out that from the time I became a member of the Executive Committee I have been using my authority to see to it that changes take place at Stanger. Whilst I am on this point, may I correct a statement that my friend Mr Moolla …

The hon member for Stanger.

I am sorry. The hon member for Stanger said that I contradicted myself. I did make mention of the fact that Stanger had problems. By this I meant that Stanger had problems, not only with regard to its staff, but with regard to many other facets as far as that hospital is concerned. The project is planned to start in the 1990-91 financial year. This will help ease the pressure the hospital has had to bear. At present the average number of out-patients seen each day is 556 and the occupancy rate is 76%.

I now come to the G J Crookes Hospital, the hospital mentioned by the hon member for Umzinto. This hospital has managed to keep abreast of its responsibilities very well. It is seeing an average of 377 out-patients per day and has an occupancy rate of 79%, but as is the case in the Stanger Hospital, accommodation has been at a premium, especially in the out-patients department and in the maternity section. Accordingly, a project to upgrade the maternity section, the pharmacy and the out-patient section has been approved at a cost of R1 300 000, to start later this year.

G J Crookes has functioned as mother hospital to the new Umzinto Community Health Centre which was commissioned in April 1988. In the space of a year it is now seeing over 4 000 out-patients each month.

R K Khan Hospital has had an average occupancy of 75% and sees a very big out-patient load each day, averaging 1 579. Accordingly, it was deemed necessary to address the problem of out-patient accommodation at this hospital and work on the new paediatric out-patient block will start in this financial year.

It has been disappointing not to be able to commission the new community health centre to be built on the hospital grounds. This has occurred as a result of problems encountered in creating the necessary posts to form an establishment for the new centre. I am happy to report, however, that a start will be made in the very near future, as five posts have been allocated to this new institution by abolishing certain vacant posts in the hospital service branch.

Northdale is to receive money this year to upgrade the neonatal nursery and problems encountered at the pharmacy out-patients waiting area are being addressed, following a recent visit made to the hospital.

The ambulance services are operating at maximum capacity at present. The fleet travelled 8,2 million kilometres from 1986 to 1988. There has been a need during this time to cope with a 68% increase in major accidents and a 140% increase in security-related incidents. Service running costs have only increased by 8,45%, which is commendable as the increase in the cost of fuel alone was 15%. The shortage of vehicles experienced by the service is being addressed, and it is hoped that by the end of this financial year the programmed replacement of vehicles in the fleet will have been completed. To this end a sum of R4 300 000 has been allocated for 1989-90.

The hospitals in my portfolio cannot be seen in isolation from the institutions in the province, as each forms a part of an integrated whole. What happens at King Edward VIII, for example, affects events at the Stanger and G J Crookes Hospitals. For this reason I am pleased to see the redevelopment initiative at King Edward VIII progressing so well, with the erection of a new out-patients block for certain specialised services and a complete revamping of the laboratories. The presence at King Edward VIII of a new CAT-scanning service is also a happy milestone on the path towards a comprehensive health service.

Mr Chairman, it will probably be very difficult to instil some spirit into the debate at this late stage of the evening, but nevertheless I shall try.

In his opening speech the hon member for Brakpan expressed his dissatisfaction with the fact that this Extended Committee had to meet and that it had to meet in Natal.

That is not what I said.

The hon member said it was a waste of time. I think he also used the word “farce”. I cannot differ more strongly with the hon member. If anything, the activities of this Extended Committee should be extended and there should be more meetings and more involvement in Natal and Natal’s problems. We have the greatest involvement in Natal, and that is as it should be. If the CP regards this sitting as a waste of their time and as a “farce”, it is an indication of the importance they attach to the interests of Natal. I merely want to assure all hon members that this side of the House definitely regards this meeting as a very important one, and wants it extended, not curtailed.

The hon member for Potgietersrus also vented his spleen on the NP earlier in his speech. I do not think there is any other appropriate description. Yet I do want to agree with him on one thing, and that is that the CP has no feasible policy. It is very clear that that was the implication of this speech, because he merely criticised and tried to denigrate the NP, but did not put forward any alternative policy. If there was one, one would have expected him to have stated it.

When the CP were asked where their homelands were, they did not say what they said to us in the Cape last year, inter alia that an Indian homeland should be formed between Pietermaritzburg, Stanger and Durban, where there are 1,7 million Black squatters, and Inanda and the Valley of a Thousand Hills. I think they are too ashamed to do that. When we asked them where their homelands were, they replied that the NP was still determining boundaries with the Commission for Co-operation. The biggest difference here is that the NP is not involved in new homelands, but in the adjustment of boundaries that will always be there. The basis of the CP’s policy is homelands for the Indians, Coloureds and Whites. We say that is not possible, and we want to tell them that they will have to define those lines for us before they can be taken seriously. The CP are stabbing their own supporters in the back. Prof Boshof has defined the lines, but the hon members of the CP say they are not satisfied with that.

Another accusation lodged against the NP by the CP is that the NP does not act in the interests of the Whites. I am not ashamed of my background and my community. I want to state categorically that the NP is the only party that is acting in the interests of the Whites. I say that because any party that acts in the interests of the Whites in our circumstances must take care of the interests of others, must seek solutions together with all the other people in this country and must seek workable solutions. The CP does not comply with any of those conditions.

†A number of hon members from the other side complained about the tricameral Parliament. They said that it was complicated and that it may be expensive. Sadly, democracy is expensive. Perhaps the most inexpensive form of government would be a dictatorship. The hon the Administrator also dealt with this and conceded—and I would like to do likewise—that there may be flaws in the situation. However, the fact remains that the tricameral constitution has been an effective vehicle to bring into the governmental process two population groups which had far less power before the time than any of the other groups. Clearly this is not the end of the road. My appeal is: Do not break down the system or try to break down the system without offering an acceptable and workable solution in its place. I have not heard that alternative today. The NP is committed to reform and nobody can dispute the Government’s sincerity in this regard. Only last year on 26 October elections were held in more than a thousand local authorities and all the population groups participated. This administration also played a major role in this regard and they must be thanked for it.

We shall also soon see the result of that election in the formation of the National Statutory Council. That will be a major step forward. However, I must emphasise that no reform, no development and no solution has a chance of success if it does not take into account the different communities in South Africa and the group aspirations of each of these communities. A simplistic plan which negates this is doomed to failure and that applies to every population group.

I want to refer briefly to the development of the Edendale valley. Just more than one and a half years ago the Edendale valley outside Pietermaritzburg was catapulted into world attention as a result of the violence and instability in the area. One of the underlying reasons for this violence was the lack of employment opportunities as a result of the lack of commercial and industrial development in that particular valley. It is indeed sad that over the past ten years we have had very little development in this regard in this particular valley. Despite the fact that, for instance, the KwaZulu Development Corporation had land in that area for more than nine years, unfortunately they did not at that stage and do not at this stage regard that as a priority.

Two months ago a committee was formed to attend to this problem and to look at how commercial and industrial development could be promoted in this particular area. This committee consists inter alia of representatives of the South African Development Bank, the Department of Development Aid, the Development and Services Board, the KwaZulu Finance Corporation, Escom, the City Council of Pietermaritzburg, the relevant chambers of commerce and members of Parliament. It is a very difficult matter because of the plethora of laws and authorities applicable. Because of the importance of the development in this area, I want to ask the administration to make the services of the town and regional planners available to this committee to help us in this very important matter.

Arising from this matter, I would also like to raise the urgent need for a structural plan which will indicate the spatial accommodation of all the communities in the greater Pietermaritzburg area. A number of recent events have indicated the need for such a structural plan and I would like to know whether such a plan is envisaged for the Pietermaritzburg area.

*In conclusion I should also like to request the assistance of the administration in developing Pietermaritzburg as Natal’s capital city. I had the opportunity last year to visit various building complexes which fall under the control of the administration, and I got the impression that there are a lot of State buildings which can be made available at present. My request is that these State buildings should also be made available to other State departments so that Pietermaritzburg can be developed as the capital city.

I should like to give hon members an example. I have been informed that the SA Police is going to appoint a regional commissioner for the whole of Natal shortly. I want to suggest that the headquarters should be in the capital city. In my opinion the administration should assist in finding office space for this purpose in the interests of Pietermaritzburg.

Mr Chairman, at the outset I wish to convey my thanks and appreciation to the hon the Administrator and the members of the Executive Committee for their endeavours during a difficult transitional phase in the history of this country. After listening to his speech I wish to commend the hon the Administrator for his accommodative attitude and his vision of hope. I wish him and his Executive Committee everything of the best in the future.

This afternoon I am not going to enter the battlefield, as it were, nor am I tempted to speak on many subjects. I am going to abide by the rule taught to children in English schools over many decades. The applicable lines are:

There are many historical setbacks that need to be addressed, especially among people of colour. In Shallcross the Development and Services Board is in the main a service organisation. Unfortunately it can do little without funds. The Shallcross township had to contend with many problems. It still has problems relating to roads, sewerage services, housing, community facilities and various other needs. The pace in providing for these needs is painfully slow. Shallcross is mainly a dormitory township and funding is inadequate to provide for its needs.

I want to focus my attention on a pressing problem affecting the future growth of Shallcross and that is the pressing need for a link road to connect Shallcross and the Higginson highway. The attitude shown over the past 14 years in connection with the proposed link road has left the community of Shallcross disillusioned. The failure by the authorities to recognise the urgency of this road has been a serious setback to the development of this township which, to the best of my knowledge, happens to be the first township started in the Durban complex by the Department of Community Development.

The link road is just shorter than a kilometre but it is a vital link and one that will transform Shallcross considerably. The link road is urgently needed to promote the development of light industries and small businesses in Shallcross. Secondly, the link road is urgently needed for housing development to the east of this township. Thirdly, it will save motorists approximately eight kilometres daily. This link road will bring the Chatsworth town centre and the Chatsworth Sports Complex almost onto the doorstep of the Shallcross township.

In the past there has been reluctance on the part of the Durban Corporation to recognise the need for the link road. However, last year the Durban Corporation at long last recognised the need for this link road. What is the problem now? It is still unwilling to make funds available to meet its share of developing this road as part of the road traverses property owned by the Durban Corporation.

I want to make a sincere appeal to the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee to liaise with the parties involved, namely the Durban Corporation, the House of Delegates, the Development and Services Board and the Transportation Board, to expedite the development of this link road and to give the matter the priority it deserves.

Order! Before we adjourn, I wish to point out that the Joint Committee on Provincial Affairs in Natal will be meeting immediately after the adjournment. I think it is now opportune for business to be suspended.

Business interrupted.

Mr Chairman, to begin with I would like to take this opportunity to extend a warm welcome to each of the hon members here in the capital of South Africa, and in particular in the Transvaal. I trust that this second meeting of the Extended Public Committee on Provincial Affairs will provide the opportunity for fruitful discussions on provincial and related matters.

The Transvaal Provincial Administration has progressed significantly during the past year with regard to the establishment of regional government in its new guise. With the limited funds at its disposal, the Administration has succeeded in providing most services satisfactorily. Furthermore, the Administration acted pro-actively by thoroughly investigating ways in which money could be saved or more effectively utilised. However, underprovision in the appropriation did cause problems in some branches, in particular those of hospital services, roads and community services. Nevertheless, the Administration has responded to most of the problem areas with purposeful management measures. I shall indicate later which techniques are being utilised in this regard.

As the Transvaal is the province with the largest population in South Africa, it has a particular responsibility with regard to the provision of hospital and health services, community services and the provision of roads and general provincial services. Besides these existing functions, additional duties were delegated to the Provincial Administration and infrastructure had to be created in order to deal with the larger workload. The transfer of functions also made it necessary for the Administration to place all facets of its business under a microscope, in order to rationalise them as far as possible. Firstly allow me to inform hon members about the sum which is being requested for the business of this Administration during the 1989-90 financial year.

†Estimates

If the amount requested for 1989-90 is compared firstly with the 1988-89 draft estimates and secondly with the 1988-89 revised estimates, the following facts emerge:

The draft estimates for 1989-90 for this Administration amount to R3 744 861 million—an increase of 14,98% or R487 849 million on the Vote for 1988-89 as reflected in the printed estimates. In comparison with the revised estimates for 1988-89, which is in any case a more realistic approach, the increase is however merely 3,41% or R123 628 million.

In the 14,98% increase I referred to, the continued effect of the improvement of service conditions and the increase in social pensions, which amounts to a total of R308 418 million, are included.

If the 15% general salary adjustment, the other improvements in service benefits and the increase in social pensions are not included in either the revised estimates for 1988-89 or the draft estimates for 1989-90 year, the following interesting facts emerge:

• — If the draft estimates are compared, the increase is R161 343 million, in other words 4,95%.
• — If the draft and the revised estimates are compared, there is a decrease of R128,331 million, that is a 3,06% negative growth rate.

*If the positive and negative growth rate per Vote are analysed, in other words the draft figures as opposed to the revised figures, the reasons for this are largely the following:

With regard to Vote No 1, “General Administration”, there is an increase of R14,873 million or 9,52% as a result of the purchase of computer equipment with a view to the implementation of the financial management system with effect from 1 April 1990 as well as other labour-saving aids at a cost of R8,578 million, and furthermore also computer services which are being provided by the Commission for Administration from 1 April 1989 on a bureau basis at a charge. For this an amount of R6,295 million is being appropriated.

With regard to Vote No 2, “Library and Museum Service”, there is a decrease of R300 000 or 2,02% which is attributed to the curtailing of subsidies to local managements and the purchase of books.

With regard to Vote No 3, “Works”, there is a decrease of R8,75 million or 4,18%. This is as a result of the curtailing of maintenance and repairs as well as building services. Except for the Soweto Hospital, no provision is being made for new services.

With reference to Vote No 4, “Hospital Services”, there is an increase of R86,640 million. Firstly, this can be attributed to the transfer of functions from the Department of National Health and Population Development at a cost of R36,236 million; the replacement of ambulances at a cost of R1,079 million; salary-growth and miscellaneous reasons at a cost of R42,175 million, and the follow-up effect of the development of health services in the North Western Transvaal border area at a cost of R7,150 million.

With regard to Vote No 5, “Nature Conservation”, there is an increase of R1,042 million or 4,93% as a result of demonstrated increased tariffs and price increases.

With regard to Vote No 6, “Roads and Bridges”, there is a decrease of R31,040 million or 5,6% as a result of a curtailing of the road construction programme.

With regard to Vote 7, “Community Services”, there is a decrease of R170,126 million or 19,82%. This is as a result of a scaling down of the provision of bridging finance owing to insufficient funds.

†A few other aspects of the Estimates

As has already been illustrated, it is only in respect of Votes Nos 1, 4 and 5 that there is a certain amount of growth. Although there is an increase of 5,05% in the provision in respect of hospital services (Vote No 4) when draft estimates are compared with revised estimates, it is still approximately R240 million less than the amount required to meet the needs in all areas. This, therefore, means that in most cases there will have to be a scaling down of services. The Administration endeavours to ward off this inevitable consequence by effective management and saving measures. As part of this effort, for example, a committee was established under the chairmanship of Mr D P Kirstein, MEC, to investigate the curbing of expenditure. Private consultants are involved in the activities of this committee. The task of the committee is not merely to make recommendations for savings but also to suggest ways in which revenue may be generated.

Greatest problem areas

The following problems may be experienced as a result of underprovision in the estimates:

Hospital Services: It will not be possible to replace obsolete, expensive equipment. No new sophisticated equipment required for specialised treatment can be purchased.

The non-provision of equipment and the consequent suspension of services is a retrogressive step with far-reaching consequences. Backlogs are accumulated—particularly with regard to community health services.

As far as the Roads Branch is concerned, proposed contracts for road and bridge construction must be cancelled with only a few exceptions. In respect of community development, a considerable shortage in the provision of bridging finance is foreseen.

Forecasts

If additional funds can be obtained, it is likely that more community health centres, as well as already completed facilities that have been closed for some time, can be made operational.

Despite the problem areas I have pointed out to hon members, I wish to assure them that the Administration is positively attuned to preventing any detrimental affect on the services rendered in the functional spheres in which it is involved. I wish to emphasise that the Administration considers it a challenge if no additional funds are obtained to continue nevertheless to render as many of those services as possible in the interests of the inhabitants of the Transvaal.

The Hospital Services Branch will continue to render preventive and curative services on a community, regional and academic level to the best of its ability. As far as the Roads Branch is concerned, the provision for the maintenance of roads is the same as for the 1988-89 financial year.

Where the Community Development Branch is concerned, I would like to point out the following. The estimates of Black local authorities will be examined in the finest detail in order to effect a saving; financial control will be tightened; the rendering of assistance by adjoining local authorities will be encouraged and Black local authorities will be urged to increase their rentals and service fees and to recover arrears rentals.

*A few aspects of the activities of the Province

Because this is the first opportunity I have had to discuss in public the main stream of the activities of the Administration, linked to the appropriation, I would like to draw the attention of hon members to a few important events which took place during the past year as well as to our most important activities.

Privatisation, function evaluation and organisation; the election of Black local authorities; the transfer of functions; regional services councils and the development of Black communities, are briefly therefore going to enjoy attention.

Privatisation, function evaluation and organisation

Against the background of the Government’s initiatives with regard to privatisation and deregulation of State functions, the privatisation possibilities of 19 functions and activities in this province have already been identified and are at present being investigated. Plans for privatisation with specific objectives such as the creation and MDSD maintenance of roads, gardening services, nurseries and laundry services have already been drawn up and are expected to be implemented soon. Besides these activities, urgent attention is also being given to the privatisation of catering services and other activities in hospitals.

To give further momentum to the privatisation policy, a function evaluation component has also been created to co-ordinate all investigations with regard to function evaluation, privatisation and deregulation within this Administration.

By means of the application of function evaluation, each function which this province carries out, is systematically questioned in order to determine whether it is possible to suspend, to privatise, to decrease the intensity of, to deregulate or to conduct the function or where possible, any of the constituent activities or branches thereof on a self-supporting basis.

Apart from the privatisation projects which are already underway, the General Provincial Services, Roads, Hospital Services and Community Development Branches of this Administration must be subjected to function evaluation before the end of 1989.

So far, function evaluation has already been applied at the Chief Directorate: Works. The provisional result of the exercise indicates that it should be possible to decrease the existing 4 877 personnel members in the Chief Directorate to 3 135, that is ie by 64%. If this can be implemented, the saving with regard to expenditure on salaries and allowances will amount to approximately R57 million per year.

Reference is also made to amendments with regard to organisation to which I am not going to refer now as this appears in the printed speech. I refer hon members to that.

†Elections: Black local authorities

The October 1988 elections for Black local authorities will probably be noted in history as the turning point in Black politics. On 26 October 1988 our Black population proved that they prefer democratic participation to revolution. In the Transvaal, 22% of the voters cast their ballots for representatives of their choice. This figure compares favourably with that of local government elections in most democratic countries. What makes it more remarkable is the fact that voters had to contend with violent opposition from radical forces who were bent on destroying or disrupting the elections.

Factors which influenced participation included intimidation, apathy, dissatisfaction, disinformation and defective voters’ rolls. Since the elections public interest has grown and even radical groups have come to realise that Black local authorities have become legitimate in the eyes of our urban Black population. We therefore find that these groups which previously disdained local authorities to the extent that they refused to acknowledge their existence, are now prepared to negotiate with them.

This Administration is optimistic that the poll percentage will increase dramatically at the next municipal elections, especially as the current councillors are showing a notably more profound sense of responsibility towards their constituencies.

Transfer of functions

Own and general affairs: Community Development This Administration is fundamentally concerned with general affairs. Consequently matters which have been identified as the own affairs of a population group should be dealt with by the Ministers’ Council concerned.

In regard to local government affairs, powers of control relating to the own affairs of Whites were transferred to the hon the Minister of Local Government and Housing of the House of Assembly with effect from 1 April 1989. The Ministers’ Councils for the Houses of Representatives and Delegates indicated that they were not interested in acquiring these powers in so far as they related to their constituencies. In practice this means that the Administrator will continue to exercise these powers in respect of Coloured and Indian management committees.

The own affairs currently vested in the Transvaal Board for the Development of Peri-Urban areas will be transferred to the hon the Minister of Local Government and Housing of the House of Assembly with effect from 1 July 1989. The general affairs functions at present performed by the Board will be transferred to the government bodies concerned.

Local authorities

In accordance with the Government policy of maximal devolution of power to local authorities this Administration amended 32 statutory provisions during the past year in order to allow local authorities greater autonomy. In addition 48 provisions are at present in the process of being amended to eliminate unnecessary control over the power of local authorities.

To date 37 White local authorities have been authorised to deal comprehensively with township establishment applications, town planning schemes and the subdivision of land in their municipalities. A further 16 applications for these powers have been approved and necessary proclamations will be published shortly.

While it is evident from these statistics that the Transvaal Provincial Administration is sincere in its desire to allow the maximal devolution of powers to local authorities it invariably acts in a responsible manner with due regard to national interest, the interests of the community and the means and abilities of the local authority concerned.

*Hospital Services

On 1 April 1988, the Administration took over the Health Services which the Department of National Health and Population Development provided in the Transvaal. In the process, the Rietfontein Hospital for patients with contagious diseases, Westfort for patients with leprosy and psychiatric patients, Weskoppies and Sterkfontein Hospitals for psychiatric patients and the Witrand Care and Rehabilitation Centre for mentally deficient patients, have become the responsibility of the Administration.

The Ga-Rankuwa Hospital, the academic hospital for the training of medical students at the Medical University of Southern Africa, is now also being run by the Hospital Services Branch.

Besides the abovementioned hospitals, the Branch also administers nursing community health services in areas which do not have a local authority. The funds for health counselling, school health services to Black people, mother and child health services, care of the aged and nutritional counselling have all been transferred to the Administration.

On 1 April 1989 the Minister of Health Services and Welfare: House of Assembly accepted responsibility for 32 White own affairs hospitals in the Transvaal in terms of the provisions of the Ordinance on Hospitals, No 14 of 1958. At the same time as the transfer of the responsibility to the Minister took place, the Minister authorised me to exercise certain functions, business and duties on his behalf with regard to the above-mentioned hospitals. This amounts to the fact that the Hospital Services Branch of this Administration administers the hospitals in question on behalf of the Department of Health Services and Welfare, Administration: House of Assembly with funds which are recovered from the Administration: House of Assembly.

The personnel of the hospital remain on the staff establishment of the Provincial Administration, but the appointment of the Superintendents, Matrons and Secretary are done in consultation with the Minister.

An important change which has come about with regard to these hospitals, is that their hospital boards will no longer be appointed by the Administrator-in-Executive Committee, but by the Minister.

I may just mention that with regard to the own affairs hospitals for the Indian population and clinics for the Coloured population in the Transvaal, matters have not yet progressed to the point where responsibility can be transferred to the Ministers involved.

General provincial services: Works

Here I can also refer hon members to the copy of the speech which they have in their possession. With regard to roads, it is interesting to note that since April of last year government motor transport has also been transferred to the province. Matters are running relatively smoothly in that regard.

†Regional Services Councils and the development of Black communities

Regional services councils In a sense, regional services councils epitomise the Government’s reform policies. Their members are the democratically elected representatives of their respective communities and as such, they are best qualified to advocate the needs of their constituencies within a regional context.

As is to be expected of any innovation, these councils are experiencing teething problems. Fortunately, most have been resolved and currently the Transvaal councils are functioning impressively. It would be naïve to suggest that no further problems will be encountered but we are confident that we shall be able to overcome any that may arise. The performance of the Transvaal councils may be assessed by the fact that their aggregate budget for the current financial year provides for capital expenditure amounting to nearly R466 million. Moreover, the earnestness with which these councils regard their duty to improve conditions in less developed areas and the responsible way in which they perform this duty are demonstrated by the following figures relating to capital expenditure during the 1988-89 financial year in the communities concerned:

It is the supreme obligation of regional services councils to effect a fair and just distribution of their revenue in order to create equally contented communities in their regions. In the performance of this obligation it is vital that party political interests be set aside. The Transvaal Provincial Administration is committed to the success of regional services councils and it will do everything in its power to eradicate any actions directed toward the destruction of these councils.

*Development of Black communities

With regard to the development of Black communities, the following:

Special attention is being given to the development of Black towns. Hon members will see, if they refer to the copy of the speech which they have there, that during December a conference was held at which the private sector, in the form of any body which was possibly involved in the development of Black towns, was present. It was held over a period of 2 days. Work committees were appointed which are at present working on very interesting subjects and which will report to us in the near future, after which the matter will receive the necessary attention.

We are looking forward to the results of the work which is being done by those work committees at the moment.

†Economic bases of Black local authorities

I would like to make mention of the economic bases of Black local authorities. I would like to tell hon members that we are presently giving very serious attention to the economic bases of Black local authorities.

Much has been said about the poor financial position of Black local authorities. This Administration is seriously concerned about the economic bases, not only of Black local authorities but also of all forms of local government in the Transvaal. The perennial financial increases for the provision of municipal and related services are a cause of great concern and ways and means will have to be devised to avoid the stage where the taxpayer will become completely unable to afford the luxury of essential services.

This Administration is involved in a number of investigations aimed at, on the one hand, introducing measures to reduce municipal expenditure, and on the other, finding additional sources of revenue for Black local authorities especially. Some of these investigations are in their final stages and it is anticipated that concrete proposals will be made within the next few months.

To view the financial predicament of Black local authorities in its proper perspective, it is necessary to take note of the fact that the 80 Black local authorities in the Transvaal have budgeted for a total deficit of R285,5 million for the current financial year which ends on 30 June. This type of deficit will only be avoided in future through:

• — external financial assistance;
• — improved administration;
• — improved financial control;
• — the development of the communities concerned; and
• — the creation of viable economic bases.

In the meantime, the Administration is assisting local authorities through loans and other aid to fulfil their obligations to their communities. It is important to note that aid is not restricted to Black local authorities and that this Administration has never shirked its duty toward any local authority or local government body in respect of which it has to perform duties or obligations.

Squatting

The recent amendments to the Prevention of Illegal Squatting Act, 1951, have provided the Administration with the means necessary to act timeously and effectively in instances of illegal squatting. In addition, the establishment of committees to evaluate squatting in rural areas will serve to combat this antisocial phenomenon effectively in the areas concerned.

At the moment, the Administration, in cooperation with the other provincial administrations and the Department of Constitutional Development and Planning, is attending to the drafting of the regulations occasioned by these amendments.

It is the policy of this Administration to deal with the squatting problem in a humane fashion because we are profoundly aware of the plight of people who move to the cities in order to improve the quality of their life but are unable to find suitable accommodation. However, we deplore the actions of ruthless people who, with the sole object of enriching themselves, exploit homeless people by charging them exorbitant rents for the right to squat in squalor. We shall act against anybody who exploits the unfortunate situation of squatters in order to enrich himself. This Administration will be failing in its duty if it allows this type of subversion of the social order. The Administration is committed to a policy of establishing informal towns where homeless immigrants from the rural areas may settle in order to build a new life for themselves. We are being assisted in our efforts by the private sector and we are optimistic that with the co-operation of everybody concerned we shall be able to provide adequately for the needs of the homeless who move to the urban areas.

It may be reported in this regard that the Administration was able to provide 4 300 erven in the Section 6A townships of Orange Farm and 3 000 erven in the Evaton North township. Apart from these erven the Administration made land available to the South African Housing Trust in order to establish townships there, providing a further 25 000 erven in the Evaton area and 11 000 erven in the Khutsong area. The private sector also participated in lodging township applications, providing for 156 603 erven of which 3 150 erven have already been approved.

It is important to know that this Administration approaches the squatter problem primarily from the point of view of orderly urbanisation. With this in view we believe that the new Act will greatly facilitate our efforts.

*Conclusion

I would like to mention that when one looks at the functions and responsibility of the Provincial Administration in retrospect—at the variety and the importance of these—there is no doubt that the foundations for a new South Africa are being laid.

The foundations lie, inter alia, in the establishment and ordering of the Black local communities and in their participation in regional services councils which are going to play an increasingly large and important role in the constitutional dispensation of South Africa in the future.

At the beginning I spoke about the province which had progressed by leaps and bounds during the past year with regard to the establishment of regional government in its new guise. It is no use putting on new clothes if the person wearing them remains unchanged. Neither does one pour new wine into used wine skins. For that reason it is important that our basic ideas with regard to regional government should be geared towards development and should emanate from the community and that we should not impose too many regulations. We should therefore not have an administratively oriented approach—not the role of the old colonial administrator—but rather a positive development oriented approach.

The unyielding demands which the Government’s dynamic reform policy is making on the State machinery, has suddenly brought about a radical transformation in the Transvaal Provincial Administration. Until 30 June 1986 it played the role largely of a guard in the province, because it acted in a regulating capacity with regard to the business of local authorities. Since 1 July 1986 it has adopted the role of an agriculturalist, who has to sow the seeds of community development with a profound sense of responsibility and in such a way that it does not fall on barren ground, but on fertile ground where, in time, it can germinate and grow into a blessed community fruit.

As the Administrator of the Transvaal I can say with pride that we have disposed of the transformation successfully and that we have already caught a glimpse of the growing plants. They may still be fragile, but with the help of the Almighty, and with hard work, we shall ensure that we shall still reap the fruits of our labour.

In conclusion, allow me firstly to thank an old and much appreciated colleague and friend, Mr Fanie Schoeman, who has resigned as MEC and is attending his last meeting today in this capacity, most sincerely for what he has done for the province and for South Africa, and for the exceptional service which he has provided. I would like to wish him everything of the best on the road ahead on behalf of everyone at the Administration and—if I may make bold as to do so—also on behalf of the hon members who are present here.

It is also true that Mr Louis Terblanché, the Executive Director: Roads, is going to retire on 31 May. I also want to say thank you very much to him for many years of dedicated service to the province as well as to his country and his people. I also want to express our best wishes to him.

I cannot neglect to say a very special word of thanks to the Director-General and his management team, along with all the officials, for the unselfish and dedicated service of the past year. My colleagues and I in the Executive Committee appreciate it tremendously.

Finally I want to mention that I believe that everyone is aware that Mr Fanie Ferreira has been appointed as MEC in the place of Mr Schoeman. I would like to issue a warm welcome to him in advance. He will assume duty on 8 May of this year.

Mr Chairman, as this is the first opportunity I have had to do so, I should like to convey my side of the Committee’s sincere congratulations to Mr Hough as the new Administrator. He has held this post for quite a while, and I want to assure him of our good wishes that he will be very successful and that his work in this post will be fruitful. I do not want to say that we do not wish him too much success when he enters the political field, but we wish him all the very best for a fruitful period of service.

I should also like to join with him in expressing our sincere thanks to Mr Fanie Schoeman. We found him a friendly, courteous and very approachable person, and we hope that he and his family will have a very pleasant—I am tempted to say career in another field.

Our sincere thanks also go to Mr Louis Terblanché, Executive Director: Roads. I hope he will have a smooth road ahead. If he could perhaps get rid of the corrugations one still finds at various points on the roads in Waterberg, we would be grateful if he could do so before 31 May.

It remains the view of this side of the Committee that the existing constitutional dispensation, as it affects this province as well, will have to be amended in various respects. The alleged extension to the democracy has not, in our opinion, given rise to a true and comprehensive democratic system for all the communities and peoples. There are unacceptable elements of domination over smaller groups—this cannot be denied—and there are unacceptable elements of a minority veto built into the system, and this is an open door for the replacement of one form of so-called domination by another equally unacceptable domination.

In our opinion, with the appointment of MECs a democratic custom was abandoned. Members are no longer elected by representatives of the people; they are appointed by the Government.

I really want to get this off my chest; as a member of the House of Assembly I am sometimes asked to make recommendations for appointments to certain boards. I have always tried to comply with these requests, but I nevertheless want to say that owing to the appointment of government supporters I need not have taken the trouble to make a recommendation at all, and this was in a constituency …[Interjections.] I know what I am talking about; that hon member should just keep quiet. [Interjections.] I know what I am talking about and that hon member knows nothing about it.

You people do this in Johannesburg too!

Would that hon member please show me the usual courtesy; he can make a noise, as he usually does, at a later stage. I am talking about a constituency in which my party has by far the most support. [Interjections.]

Mr Chairman, I do not want to try your patience, but I should like to ask your leave to devote a few sentences to a matter which is of vital public importance. I am referring to the situation in South West Africa as a matter of very urgent public importance. With your permission I want to refer to this matter in a few sentences.

We are dealing with a large-scale Swapo incursion into South West Africa, the largest since 1966. There has already been considerable loss of life. The objective seems to be that Swapo wants to have a display of power before the election, thus creating the impression of being the strong man. The presence of tens of thousands of Cubans in Angola—there will be tens of thousands more of them by the time the election takes place—is a fact. The Untag force has no authority or instructions to take any action. The withdrawal of the South African Defence Force to a few bases, in accordance with the requirements of Resolution 435, is a disturbing phenomenon in the light of current events there. The hon the Minister of Foreign Affairs referred to CP mothers who thanked him for peace. He may have received their gratitude, but the irony is that while he was accepting their gratitude hostilities broke out on the border in South West Africa. He is a man who excitedly talks about peace while the media cries out “War!”. The Untag force is biased, and the Secretary-General is collecting funds for organisations that are front-organisations for Swapo.

We are dealing with Swapo’s aggression which is aimed at liberating the whole of South West Africa—including Walvis Bay—and which is in no way interested in achieving peace among the various people. The second part of the sentence reads:

The Government has every reason to insist on the withdrawal of the UN Task Force, and we say the Government should allow the Defence Force to protect our people and to eliminate Swapo. Swapo is a danger; it is not a body to negotiate with. It must be eliminated. It is a hostile, communist organisation that must be destroyed and not allowed to commit murder and rule over the peoples of South West Africa. Mr Chairman, I thank you for the opportunity to get this off my chest. I believe it is in the public interest.

I want to discuss a few matters of importance in Waterberg, as it falls under the Province of the Transvaal. May I point out that the condition of Road 869 between Dwaalboom and Northam through Bophuthatswana is so abysmal that one of our farmers had to pull out buses with his tractor after they had got stuck in the middle of the road. This is a very urgent request for that road to be made negotiable. We know that this is a matter with international implications, but in practice citizens from other independent states travel on our roads and citizens of our state also want to travel on that road because it is a short-cut to Northam. This would not only be in the interests of Dwaalboom’s farming community, but when Portland Cement comes into production, it will also be in the interests of that community and the inhabitants of Bophuthatswana. The detour that has been constructed—and reference is being made to the detour—does in fact serve Makoppa, but it is not a convenient link for Dwaalboom. I should like to draw attention to this.

Furthermore I want to refer to the establishment of Black towns and talk specifically about the town at Northam. Various bodies have indicated that there is no need for such a town, least of all a town on 100 ha of land. Employees travel a few kilometres from Bophuthatswana. Northam has a relatively small White community and I think that community has a prior claim to the town. There is already an overcrowding of people there at present. I was there last week; in fact I have been there several times before. I can see that the inhabitants of Northam are concerned. They are justifiably worried, even at this early stage, about their community life and the character of their town. The Bushveld Regional Services Council unanimously found that there was no need for such a large Black town at Northam. The community does not feel that it is in their interests.

I now want to refer to a matter affecting Thabazimbi, namely the Black town at Rossouwspoort. According to a letter from the hon the Minister, the responsibility in this regard was assigned to the Director: Land Use Control, Transvaal Provincial Administration. Members of the public are also very unhappy—particularly members of the Hervormde Kerk—about the allocation of this Black town. Of course there is no objection in principle to accommodation for a Black community, but here we are dealing with the location of such a town. It is disturbing to hear from members of that congregation that representations apparently did not reach the correct government body. As far back as 30 June 1983 and 16 February 1984 objections to the location of this Black town were raised on behalf of the congregation and the District Development Association. On 23 April 1985 the Minister of Co-operation and Development said the following:

On 7 May 1985 the church council wrote as follows to the Chief Commissioner of the Department of Co-operation and Development about:

At that stage the church registered its strong objections.

In October 1985 the Director-General of Cooperation and Development, wrote as follows:

That was on 10 October 1985. On 31 March 1986 the hon the Minister responded to my enquiry as follows:

On 6 May 1986, scarcely 5 weeks later, the town secretary stated:

On 14 August 1986 the clergyman from the Hervormde congregation wrote to the inspectress of the Provincial Roads Department, Thabazimbi, and aired the community’s concern about the proposed Black town. On 15 August 1986, the next day, the clergyman sent a memorandum and a list signed by 475 church members, of objections to the establishment of the town at Rossouwspoort to the District Development Association, and this was sent to the Minister.

On 27 August the clergyman wrote a letter to the District Development Association in which he requested that nothing further be done before the infrastructure in respect of roads had been properly planned. There was then talk of a bypass.

On 22 July 1987 the District Development Association heard the following from the Director-General of Development Planning:

On 16 July 1987 the approval in principle and conditions were conveyed in writing to the Director: Land Use Control of the Transvaal Provincial Administration which will now take the matter further. However, he added:

The Hervormde congregation has, to the best of my knowledge, never accepted any dispensation which would bring that large South Africa Black town right up to the street just across from the church building and the parsonage.

Bearing in mind the hon the Minister’s assurance that there would be a distance of a kilometre or more between the proposed Black town and the Hervormde Kerk, I was completely amazed to hear that the proposed town would come right up to the road opposite the Hervormde Kerk, 80 metres from the middle of the road. There is either a serious communication gap between the Minister who laid down the conditions and the Transvaal Provincial Administration: Land Use Control, or a breach of faith which is causing a very deep-seated feeling of unhappiness amongst members of that church.

I cannot see how people can be so insensitive. The location of that town must simply be revised, at least as far as the promised buffer zone is concerned. The Transvaal Provincial Administration should feel honour bound to comply with that condition. If not, we have here an example of autocracy which does not fit in with our political views. On the surface it really would appear that that church is fighting a losing battle, and I think that something can and should be done in this regard.

When I was a young politician, I used to wonder why the hon the Leader of the CP was referred to as Dr No. Today, more than ever, I know why. As a theologian I would like to tell the hon the Leader of the CP that it is written in the Scriptures: “Cast the beam out of your own eye.” Perhaps he could learn something from that.

Swapo is referred to as cruel, as the aggressor, as a murderer, as the enemy. That may well be the case, but perhaps the White opposition members in Parliament should take a close look at the real enemy of South Africa.

As Chairman of the LP in the Transvaal, I would like to take this opportunity to express my sympathy to the next-of-kin of the people who died there, both on the side of the South African forces and that of the enemy.

Who do you say the enemy is?

I am not going to take any notice of the hon member for Overvaal, because in this Parliament we refer to him as the hon member for “skoppensboer”. [Interjections.]

Order! The hon member for Overvaal will have an opportunity to make his speech in due course. The hon member for Alra Park may proceed.

I would not be surprised if that hon member tried to kick open the doors of this place as well, because he does it in Parliament.

Order! The hon member must come back at once to the Votes of the Administration.

Very well, Mr Chairman. Allow me to convey our best wishes to the hon the Administrator, Mr Danie Hough, as well as to the Province of the Transvaal, on behalf of the LP of South Africa and especially the Transvaal branch of the LP, of which I am the chairman. Mr Hough is an old acquaintance of mine. We served together on the Committee for Economic Affairs of the President’s Council, and I know his capabilities.

Although it is already rather late, I would like to take this opportunity to propose a toast to Mr Hough, since it is the first time that we as Parliamentarians are appearing here and Mr Hough is serving in his official capacity as Administrator of the Transvaal. Unfortunately, there is no champagne or caviar now, but possibly there will be some after the sitting. I hope so, but I would nevertheless like to wish him everything of the best in his new capacity.

I want to quote as follows:

I have now been quoting part of the speech made by the hon the Minister of Local Government and Housing in the House of Representatives on Monday, 20 March 1989. He said that by way of introduction. He then went on to say the following:

The hon the Minister could not have stated his standpoint better, and for this reason my party and I would like to associate ourselves with his comments. We as a party entered politics, and one of the objectives we set ourselves was the upliftment of our people. Our watchword is upliftment. However, we are no longer satisfied with merely talking about upliftment, we want to see it actually happening. In other words, it must become a reality.

Let everyone with ears, hear this. Management committees have never been acceptable to the LP, and they will never be accepted. The whole concept of management committees is contrary to our party policy. We reject it. It is blatant discrimination—apartheid at its worst. The LP will only be satisfied with direct representation on all levels of local government; nothing less. Hon members may rest assured that we are determined about that. We are firmly resolved, and nothing will put us off our stride. We will not admit defeat until we obtain direct representation in local authorities. Only when that happens will we give up the struggle.

This principle works brilliantly in regional services councils, and it works well even in the joint sittings of Parliament. There we can sit together and debate, so why can the same not be done in respect of local authorities? What is the matter?

The time has come for us to work out our salvation together at local government level.

†I would like to take hon members back in time to our conference last year in Bloemfontein when our leader said that he called on all South Africans, irrespective of colour, creed or religion, to come forward as one nation to make South Africa what God wants it to be—one nation, one country, one South Africa.

*Hon members must believe me when I say that management committees are resigning themselves to their duties and powers as announced by way of Notice 317 of 1988 in the Gazette. Unfortunately, there is one great deficiency in these powers and duties—the province in particular should take an in depth look at this matter—and that is that while we do not yet have direct representation in local authorities, management committees should in the mean time be granted developers’ rights to build houses for their people. After all, the electorate has voted for them, and expects them to deliver the goods, just as in our case. We have a duty towards our voters, and we are automatically their property.

In conclusion, I would like to say that the LP has turned its back on boycott politics and has decided to go over to negotiation politics. Although I am one of those lucky MPs who thank God every day for the good town clerks He has bestowed on me, I, as chairman of my party in the Transvaal, would like to express my displeasure at certain towns clerks and local authorities in the Transvaal who are making life extremely difficult for some MPs and management committees. They are giving us no co-operation or support at all. Possibly they want to force us to become autonomous Brown local authorities. That is exactly where they are missing the bus. We will never accept that, and we will not do so for two reasons. In the first place we do not have skilled manpower and in the second place we do not have the necessary funds.

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Alra Park said that the LP had turned its back on boycott politics and was going to seek its salvation in the politics of negotiation. I want to congratulate him and his party most sincerely on that point of view, but I do want to give them a little advice. In the politics of negotiation one does not use the word “never” and one does not stipulate conditions as prerequisites. One only negotiates.

The hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly has also made use of this opportunity to criticise the expansion of democracy, especially on a regional level, as embodied in the provincial authorities. The hon member should rather give us more information at the first available opportunity, which will probably be the no-confidence debate, as to his party’s views with regard to the extension of the democratic process in the country, and single out three factors in particular, namely its acceptability to all groups, its feasibility and affordability, especially when one has to deal with a budget debate, as is the case today.

The hon member also advised the Government with regard to Resolution 435. As an Eastern Transvaler I am also aware of that, as well as of the fact that the hon member initially supported the Nkomati Accord, but when the slightest problems were experienced he called for our withdrawal from the accord and questioned the accord. I can give him the assurance today that we in the Eastern Transvaal are quietly bringing about peace and that we are reaping very good fruits with regard to the Nkomati Accord.

You are going to lose your seat. We are going to bury you.

Oh, please, I am not running away from my constituency! I am not losing my seat either. I have also heard that before. If the hon member cannot advance other arguments, he must not come up with that.

Mr Chairman, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary to use the word “hol”?

[Inaudible.]

Order! I want to point out that there are certain hon members who are making interjections too loudly. I do not want to order hon members to leave the Committee, but if hon members make things impossible for me, I shall do so. Hon members must please refrain from making unnecessary and frivolous interjections. The hon member may proceed.

The hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly has also called for our withdrawal from Resolution 435. It is, to say the least, totally irresponsible to break off the peace negotiations of 10 years after the first set-back—not even a set-back for which provision has not been made and for which there is no regulation. It is utterly irresponsible and the NP will not follow that advice.

Mr Chairman, I should like to thank the hon the Administrator and members of the Executive Committee and their staff for their assistance to the Joint Committee. This year the recess coincided with the period of time within which we were to have discussed the Budget, and therefore it was decided that hon members should rather put their questions in writing this year. Those questions were dealt with very carefully, thoroughly and swiftly, and yesterday we had the opportunity for further clarification. Hon members were provided with a wealth of information by means of the written replies and replies to follow-up questions, and I want to thank them for the sincere manner in which these questions were answered. I am sure that this will contribute to a much more fruitful debate on this Vote.

This is also the first debate in which the hon the Administrator is participating and I want to thank him for his open-door policy with regard to members of the House of Assembly. We receive sincere co-operation from him. We are very sorry that Mr Schoeman is going to leave the provincial authority. We worked together very well and we trust that he will be very successful in the private sector. We also want to thank Mr Terblanche for the many years of co-operation. We trust that he will enjoy very good health during his retirement.

I want to congratulate Mr Fanie Ferreira at this first opportunity. I really think that it was a good appointment. He has a great deal of background knowledge of the province and in my opinion many hon members of the Official Opposition should follow his example in order to see the light and change their policy.

It is a pity that the annual report was not ready for this debate, but we are looking forward to receiving it later this year. The hon the Administrator’s speech was very comprehensive, however, and many of the issues were covered.

In his Budget Speech the hon the Minister of Finance said that this year’s Budget was definitely not an election budget. He based that statement on the fact that an increase of 15% in Government expenditure does not represent an increase in real terms. He stressed the importance of the reduction in Government expenditure in the interests of the country.

Measured against the Estimate of Expenditure, and as dealt with by the hon the Administrator, the budget for the Transvaal is definitely not an election budget. After certain adjustments had been made, the increase can be put at approximately 3,4%. In fact, in real terms it is not an increase, but a reduction compared to last year. This gives rise to the question as to whether it is not going to seriously affect essential services and whether there are, in fact, other solutions. There is, however, an increase of R82,5 million in respect of own sources of income. This represents an increase of 15,5% compared to the previous year. However, these sources are and remain limited.

When the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning recently opened the second annual conference of the regional services councils’ associations, he said that the State was looking for new sources of revenue for regional services councils. The most important sources of revenue that he mentioned, were a new source such as mineral extraction rights and the devolution of existing sources such as transfer duties. Perhaps the advantages of sources directly linked to the provincial distribution of economic activities as alternative sources of income for the province could be looked at.

Other hon members will deal with regional services councils today and will certainly refer to this issue as well. However, I just want to mention one issue, namely that there should be no objection to the fact that the provincial authority should also be allowed to levy a toll on roads under their jurisdiction if the roads lend themselves to this.

If revenue cannot be increased in the interests of the country, savings should also be looked at. The most important expenditure in this budget before us is the expenditure on personnel, which constitutes a very high percentage of the budget. According to my calculations it amounts to a total of R1,5 billion. It is perhaps confusing to state this figure as a percentage of the budget, because it differs from Vote to Vote.

The hon the Administrator has spelt out what has been achieved with regard to function evaluation. Quality and the improvement of productivity should be the objectives. It is very encouraging to see the results that the Directorate: Function Evaluation has already achieved, especially with regard to the Directorate: Works. A saving of 64% with regard to personnel—representing a decrease of R57 million per annum—is really quite dramatic. It must take place without posing a threat to the job security of personnel, and it will therefore take a while before the actual implementation can be fully executed.

If we look at the present budget and the staff establishment there is already a marked decrease, especially with regard to Vote 5, Works. Improvements to and reductions in personnel result in other indirectly related savings, such as buildings, vehicles, stocks and plant, not included in the amount of R57 million.

I also want to refer to the province’s role of bringing about orderly urbanisation, especially with regard to Blacks, where the need is the greatest. Where private organisations are involved the province must evaluate and approve the application in terms of township and land use regulations of 1986. In this regard, on behalf of the private sector I really want to express its thanks and appreciation to the province for the co-operation that is being experienced at present.

The fact that permission is being granted for leasehold before all the requirements for formal approval have been complied with is to a large extent contributing to the speeding up of this process. A working group was established at the end of last year—the hon the Administrator has referred to that—and because there are no longer regulations being imposed on people and because there is co-operation in order to eliminate problem areas, I think that there will be much more progress in this area.

Statistics also indicate how rapid the increase was. In the 1987-88 financial year 83 applications were received, but in the 1988-89 financial year 148 applications were received from private developers, which represents an increase of 78%. This comprises 11,894 ha which covers a total of 152 275 residential plots. If these plots are calculated at an average of R10 000 per plot, this amounts to R1,5 billion, which gives one an idea of how much capital is really involved and how demanding a task it is to deal with these applications in a time of inflation and high interest rates. This is an enormous investment placing a great deal of pressure on the province—pressure which they could deal with and dispose of very well with the limited personnel at their disposal.

The easing of the requirements is very important, and I have referred to the leasehold registration which is going to be accelerated. Low-cost housing, which comprises 87% of the need, is not yet being provided by the private sector and still remains the duty of the province, which is dealing with this development in its own right. A great deal of success has been achieved with the development in buffer zones set aside previously, and section 6 (a) of the Prevention of Illegal Squatting Act makes ample provision for speedy relief in transit areas. In the case of Varkfontein negotiation has really been shown to work and work quickly, and literally within a period of weeks and after co-operation with the town council of Daveyton, approximately 400 or more families were moved and provided with the basic facilities.

I think we have now found the right instrument with which to address this problem of orderly urbanisation, and I would like to congratulate the province on this, and tell them to continue in this way.

Mr Chairman, I want to begin my speech with words of congratulations to the hon the Administrator for participating in this first public meeting of the Transvaal. We have a lot of respect for the hon the Administrator and I pray that he will steer the Transvaal in the right direction in these times of reform. It will be a challenge and I hope he will come out the winner.

I will first speak generally on the whole budget before I come to individual Votes. However, I want to make a little observation in reply to the speech made by the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly. We must not be discouraged because of the temporary set-backs in South West Africa. We know that South Africa is a responsible country and we do not wish to declare war. However, South Africa is responsible and as such has to act with dignity and decorum. To permit the South African Defence Force to enter South West Africa and, in the words of the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly, “to restore order”, is not practical. The United Nations and South Africa are both committed to peaceful change in South West Africa. To further influence the situation by allowing the South African Defence Force into the arena will be unwise and I appeal that we must all, with constraint leave this question to those that are in charge.

You would be “constraining” yourself, and before you knew it Swapo would be in Windhoek.

I am not going to react to that statement. I would like to make a few remarks on the general appeal that was made by the hon the Administrator in his opening address.

*Unfortunately I only have the English copy; I could not get hold of the Afrikaans copy, but nevertheless I would like to make a few comments on it.

†I think the hon the Administrator was very honest when he said in his opening address: “Nevertheless the administration has dealt successfully with most of the problem areas by employing purposeful management measures.” I will come back to this a little later. He also said he would indicate later what techniques were being used in this regard. It is very heartening to see such a good address by the hon the Administrator. In his address he tried to find solutions to the problems that we are faced with in the Transvaal. We are grateful to him for trying to find solutions. However, there are many areas in which we will have to put our heads together to find solutions.

I want to compliment the hon the Administrator on his team of members of the Executive Committee, who have been very helpful in trying to solve some of the problems from time to time and we thank them for the manner in which we were accommodated when we had meetings with them. I also want to take the opportunity to wish the hon MEC, Mr Schoeman, well on his retirement, although he is not here at the moment. He will be remembered by the Indian community for the very good manner in which he dealt with a problem that faced a community in Ermelo with regard to an access road to the township, where he took an immediate decision. We wish him a good retirement and that he will not disappear from a scene in which he was very useful to us.

Coming back to a few aspects of the Votes, the hon the Administrator—who is also the chairman of the South African Tourism Board—has a vast knowledge and he is also a man with good human relations. I will pose a few direct political questions on the administration to him. I hope he will take it in the spirit in which it is said. We notice that under his wise guidance he has looked at certain sensitive matters and I want to compliment him, especially on the matter of the issuing of a residential permit to a Prof Pillay of Unisa. This was indeed a very sensitive matter within the Verwoerdburg Municipality and the hon the Administrator and his executive must be complimented on the manner in which this was dealt with. The stand which the hon the Administrator took was highlighted in the Press both locally and overseas.

However, let us look again at the problems with which we are faced in the Transvaal concerning our resorts—a matter which I know is close to the heart of the hon the Administrator as the head of the tourism industry in our country. Previously the Overvaal resorts fell within the ambit of the province. However, Central Government saw fit to declare almost all the resorts in the Transvaal own affairs, virtually closing the doors to all except Whites. The situation pertaining to these facilities is saddening to us, because all these years we had relied upon the fact that the day would come when these facilities would be open. We know that some of these facilities were open to some people of colour. I refer especially to the Warm Baths and Badplaas facilities, to which I will come back later. As far as the House of Delegates is concerned, we feel that these resorts were created from general funds from the administration and they are now being transferred to be administered under White own affairs. I do not know how the hon the Administrator is going to project tourism in the Transvaal on a national and international basis when he will have to tell people that most of the resorts in the Transvaal are reserved for one population group only.

We know that tourism is indeed a very important industry for our country. The hon the Administrator must be complimented on the manner in which he has in the past projected tourism in this country as the Chairman of the SATB. However, when such questions are asked, we will leave it to him to answer them. I know that it will be very difficult for him to market tourism locally and internationally, but we must make a policy decision as far as resorts are concerned and I appeal to him to use his influence with the Central Government. He should tell them exactly how this is to be done as he is the head of the tourism industry and tourism is a very important way to promote the Province of the Transvaal.

As far as Vote No 3, Works is concerned, I also want to take this opportunity to thank Mr Terreblanche for the invaluable service that he has rendered to the Transvaal during his term. I especially have known him for many years and we have spoken and reached consensus on many matters. We are going to miss him.

As regards certain replies to questions that were posed during this debate I would like to take this opportunity, through the Chair, to thank the hon the Chairman of the Joint Committee on Provincial Affairs, the hon member for Nelspruit, for the manner in which he deals with the matters of the Transvaal. We are truly indebted to him as well.

I come back to Warm Baths which is one of the resorts where facilities were open to members of other races many years ago, which were eventually closed to them. After years and years of consultation one should look at the reply we get as to why the resorts at Warm Baths and at Badplaas are closed to people of colour. They wanted to upgrade the facilities and in upgrading them, the people of colour have lost out completely. As far as the mineral and hot water facilities of Warm Baths are concerned, there were certain traditions for the Indian community which have now been lost. Our elderly people specifically spent many months during winter at this resort and now they have nowhere to go. We know that the province is trying to find a solution to this, but the answer we get is really not the one we expect to get from the province.

Investigations are to be undertaken and some have been completed, the results of which will be processed for further action. No facilities for Indians or Coloureds are available in the Badplaas vicinity, where Overvaal Resorts has prospected for mineral water with a view to providing mineral water facilities to Indians and Coloureds. However, no additional mineral water resources were found. If no further resources have been found at either Warm Baths or Badplaas, what is wrong with sharing these facilities as we are sharing facilities in all international hotels as well as some other resorts in the country?

We come to the very important Hospitals Vote. We learned only yesterday that some 33 of the most important hospitals in the country are now being proclaimed as own affairs hospitals. It is saddening to see that health services are now being fragmented. How on earth can we say that health services for the community can be fragmented into own affairs for Whites, Coloureds, Blacks and Indians? That is unheard of anywhere in the world. Health services remain health services. We know that these hospitals will now be defined as own affairs hospitals and yesterday we received a undertaking from the member of the Executive Committee in charge of hospital services that the status quo in these hospitals would remain unchanged for the time being. However, he will not be able to give us this particular undertaking because this matter will no longer fall under his portfolio but will go to own affairs.

In these 33-odd hospitals that are now being declared as own affairs hospitals there are beds available for people of colour. We know of the cry about not receiving the proper facilities at these hospitals in the past. We were told by the hon MEC that in cases of emergency they would allow these patients to receive treatment after which they would be sent away to their own hospitals or to hospitals which did have facilities for them. This is unacceptable. How can one, in case of an emergency, accept a patient into a hospital, treat him and then send him away to another hospital just because that hospital is not open to people of colour?

The hospital at Laudium, which falls in my constituency, was built many years ago with millions of rands, once again on ideological grounds because they wanted to separate the hospital services of the province as regards the different race groups. Now, over the years, this hospital has not taken off. Statistics for the occupancy rate have been supplied to us which calculate it at about 30%. Some wards are completely closed. Now one wonders if we cannot use this for other facilities. We are not allowed to use it as a private clinic or any other facility. Yet at the H F Verwoerd Hospital, which is a training and academic hospital, we are told that 21 beds are set aside for the exclusive use of Indian people. The occupancy rate at this particular hospital is almost 100% according to figures supplied by the hospital authorities. In other words, this means that those 21 beds are insufficient for the community. That is why they have an occupancy rate of nearly 100%, while in Laudium Hospital, which is well equipped and which is in fact one of the best equipped hospitals, we find that people do not utilise it because of a lack of services. There is no 24-hour emergency service, there are no doctors on duty and there are no sessional doctors. There is an out-patient clinic which is very useful and which averages about 130 patients per day. On the other side we find that we have been appealing to the MEC and the executive director of hospital services. We must find a solution for this establishment by appointing a full-time superintendent medical officer to be on duty at all times to give direction. There is no one at that hospital to give direction. There is a superintendent who comes from one of the other hospitals for one hour per day. Sometimes he does not appear for two or three days.

How can we maintain and run a hospital when we have nobody in control? One does not find a non-medical man as a secretary to run a hospital. We need a medical man to run a hospital. We have appealed time and again to the local authorities to let us appoint a full-time superintendent so that we can see that the numbers and statistics will show something different. We even went as far as telling the hon MEC in charge of hospital services that we had no objection to people of colour being allowed into that hospital so that that particular hospital could render a 24-hour emergency service. This is the fruitlessness we have come to know for years and years.

I also served as a member of the hospital board for many years. At the inception of the hospital we collected a sum of approximately R200 000 from the community to provide services for the nursing staff. The services that we had to provide included a créche and some facilities for children to assist the nurses in their work. For over seven to eight years there is still no instruction from the province to finalise the plans for which the community—not the Government or the administration—was going to pay. It goes from one department to another and the red tape never comes to an end. Up to today there is still no instruction on whether we are going to use that R250 000 that has been collected or not. What is happening in the meantime? We are losing our most important nursing and professional staff because there are no facilities at this particular hospital.

We know that there is a shortage of funds. We know that there are many hospitals in the Transvaal that have a budget of under R2,5 million. I think it is time we looked towards the privatisation of these smaller hospitals. I think that the hon the Administrator mentioned adjustments to certain privatisation functions in his opening address this morning and itemised approximately 19 functions and activities in the province that have already been identified and are presently being investigated. When we look at privatisation I think they should not only investigate the 19 private functions but also look further afield at hospitals in places like Duiwelskloof, Belfast, Koster, J Verster in Lydenburg, Sabie, Schweizer-Reneke, Warmbad, Waterval Boven and even Bethal to completely privatise them. These hospitals are run with an annual budget of under R2,5 million. I do not see why and how we will be able to maintain these hospitals. I think the better utilisation of funds as mentioned by the hon the Administrator this morning must be looked at again.

We looked at the privatisation of certain functions, namely catering, etc. We have no objection if those functions are utilised. We see under the estimate of hospital services this year that the Amajuba Hospital at Volksrust is being earmarked for upgrading to the tune of R8,7 million—the upgrading not only of the hospital but also of other facilities. However, 40 km away from here we have the Newcastle Hospital. Can we not utilise that particular hospital more effectively than to spend extra funds?

I think that it is time we looked properly at our priorities. What are the priorities concerning the shortage of funds that we have regarding hospital services? Where can we utilise these available funds best instead of spending money where it is not needed?

Last year I made a big production regarding the ambulance services in Pretoria. There is a slight change and I want to quote from Hansard last year where I mentioned that there were different colour uniforms for Black and White ambulance drivers. I see that the only change that has come about there is that the White and Black ambulance drivers now have the same uniform. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I hope hon members will bear with me when I deal with a matter relating to the area which I represent. Sandton has a population of White people classified as White men, women, children and foreigners of over 120 000 persons. In that area also reside some 50 000 Black South Africans. In Alexandra which is adjacent and surrounded by Sandton 100 000 plus Black South Africans reside. Very close by and in the Sandton area there are 8 000 Coloureds and 2 000 Indian South Africans. In Randburg which is virtually part of Sandton—being adjacent to each other—there are approximately 100 000 White people and some 50 000 Black South Africans—all living in that area. This means that the Sandton/ Randburg/Alexandra complex, which can be seen as one, is a community of some 430 000 people.

In this area with that huge population there exists no public casualty hospital, no trauma centre and no emergency rooms at all. The nearest emergency rooms to this complex are to be found at Edenvale Hospital which is some 20 km away from the central part of the area I am describing, or Tembisa which is over 30 km away or the Johannesburg Hospital which is 25 km away or the Hillbrow Hospital which is also between 25-27 km away. I believe that this is really just not good enough.

Apart from the distances involved—as we know this is all part of a central metropolitan area—the traffic flow is incredibly heavy most of the day and very often causes a loss of time in taking victims to hospital and even fatalities have occurred as a result of this.

A very great need exists for a casualty unit in this area. I have been aware that despite the growth in population a provincial hospital for the Sandton area is not being planned mainly because of the huge cost involved and the presence of several comprehensive private hospitals in the area. The obvious route is therefore to assist in the expansion of the service available to the area even in partnership—if possible—with private enterprise.

As long ago as 1985 the then Director-General of National Health wrote to me as follows:

Clearly this thought points the road to the future and could—I believe—save the administration millions of rands in capital expenditure. However, the community cannot wait forever while the Government ponders the many problems arising out of this concept year after year without resolving those problems. So it was that in November 1987 the Rembrandt owned Sandton Clinic—with the permission of the Government—opened the Sandton Emergency Rooms which are operated only between 18h00 and 07h00 during the week. In other words, it is only a night-time service and also operates over the weekends.

It is operated by two doctors and staff who are trained and contracted to provide all the required services of a trauma centre. Statistics for the first 10 months of its operation prove beyond doubt the clear need for this service. In the first 10 months over 4 700 cases were handled at a rate of approximately 17 per working evening. For instance, over this period—I quote just some of the figures—the following types of cases, inter alia, were treated: assaults 47, burns 39, cardiac failures 121, dog bites 183, lacerations 656, broken bones 384, respiratory cases 187, sporting injuries 143, general medical problems 1 191 and so it goes on.

When one considers these figures there are two points to remember. Firstly, these rooms cater for only approximately one quarter of the population, namely people covered by a medical aid fund or people who can pay cash when they go into those rooms.

This is a private institution which must charge fees in order to survive. Therefore at least three quarters of the population, mostly the Black, Coloured and Indian people and those not covered by medical aid have limited or no access to this life-saving facility.

The second point to remember is that this facility does not and cannot deal effectively with motor accidents. This is basically because of the MVA situation. I should like to quote part of a letter from the Sandton Clinic:

In practice this means that up to five years elapse before an MVA case is settled and payment to a hospital institution is done.

So far the negotiations to improve this situation have not been successful. So while the basic service remains the duty of the State in my community it is not being provided at all. Private enterprise can meet this need only partially.

What are the answers? Firstly, I believe the State should build a complete hospital in the Sandton-Randburg area. I know this would involve enormous capital expenditure and, quite frankly, I am not sure that that is justified at the moment. In fact, if one builds a trauma centre in Sandton one has to build a whole hospital because there must be back-up services such as cardiac and orthopaedic units and other facilities which will run into many millions of rands. I do not think this is the answer.

The alternative is to assist private enterprise to do the job. This will save in capital expenditure as well. What is needed is to help solve the MVA payment difficulty by assisting the private hospitals in solving the problem of obtaining payment from the MVA Fund. This can be done either by negotiation or by subsidization.

Let me give hon members some accident statistics in Sandton for 1988-this does not include Randburg. There were 3 500 total collisions, 450 slighter injuries, 170 serious injuries, 80 fatal injuries and 2 700 cases of property damage. These are alarming figures.

I say that we must give effect to the idea raised by the Sandton Clinic itself. Let me quote from a letter which I received from them some time ago:

So they believe that if the Government could subsidize the first 24 hours to stabilize a person and then transfer him to a State institution where necessary this would help. At least that 24 hours of emergency treatment would be covered by the State. They also say in the letter:

I believe the answer lies in that area of assisting the private hospitals to provide the service.

I place these facts before the hon the Administrator and the Executive in the hope that action will be taken in the course of the next financial year to solve this problem. I do hope that this problem will not be left to stagnate until we meet again next year so that we will have to raise it again.

Mr Chairman, allow me to welcome the new Administrator and his wife in this capacity. We hope that he will use the time fruitfully to make a valuable contribution to the infrastructure of the Transvaal.

I also want to wish the retiring MEC, Mr Fanie Schoeman, a pleasant rest. He was undoubtedly a valued person, particularly when he had to spell out the functions of the regional services councils and sometimes pulled no punches in dealing with the CP who wanted these councils to come to nought.

I do not want to react to the atrocious remark the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly made. This merely makes me realise that he has no understanding for the thousands of litres of blood which flowed in Angola.

I prefer to concentrate on Vote No 4, Hospital Services. In spite of the salary adjustment of 15%, there is still a dreadful problem which appears unnecessarily in the budget, namely the transfer of functions from the Department of National Health and Population Development.

The transfer of hospitals throughout the country from the provinces to own affairs of the Department of Health Services and Welfare in the House of Assembly is a problem. It is shocking that in the present political atmosphere we are still in reverse gear. The transfer of health services from the provinces undoubtedly attests to selfishness. The fact that the NP Government is aware of the problematic situation regarding hospitalisation among our people which, as a result of the Group Areas Act, has become a frustrating factor, makes one face the future with mixed feelings. It again proves that White South Africans do not want to relinquish or share the benefits they have enjoyed over the years. The great pity is that the taxpayer is being hard hit.

Our participation in the parliamentary system must not be seen as a sign that we will let things slide. We can never allow the abomination of apartheid to blind us to the real situation in our country. We will therefore fight to the end and do everything in our power to dismantle the system. However, we can only do so successfully if we act within the system.

For five years we have been testing the Government’s sincerity to do away with the abomination of apartheid which drove a wedge between South Africans. We feel it is a great shame that the engine has seized. Apartheid will still be on the Statute Book for a long time.

The establishment of own affairs hospitals undoubtedly proves that this Government does not understand the feelings of poor people and does not care a rap for the problems in connection with hospital services for our people.

That is not true. You know it is not true.

It is true. Our people in the rural areas and particularly in the parts of the country controlled by the conservatives have no solution for this problem. It is like a hot potato. The NP Government is simply exacerbating the problems instead of solving them. Has the Government no feeling for our thousands of patients who have to lie on the floor every day? [Interjections.] Is that not true? The hon member is now walking out. Women must share beds in the maternity wards. Is that not true? Sick people are being turned away because they are Black. A typical example is Lichtenburg where no Black people are allowed to receive hospital services. Is that not true? [Interjections.]

Patients can barely receive out-patient treatment. This is simply exacerbating the problem which should actually be solved in a non-revolutionary way. Is this not strengthening the hand of those persons who believe that the only language the Government understands is the language of violence and boycotts? Our participation as a party is all to the advantage of peaceful negotiation, but I am afraid it may all be in vain.

I believe we want to face the future with a clear conscience; on the contrary, do we have the courage of our convictions to free South Africa from the quagmire of oppression? By our participation in this system, in which own affairs is the option to solve this problem of hospital services, I am afraid we are definitely going downhill. [Interjections.] The Government must not turn the word “reform” into a political football and try to use it to make something which is imperfect perfect, and therefore make a system which is unacceptable acceptable. I believe our basic objective must be not to open the doors to change, but to open the doors to real change.

We will continue talking about the injustice to our people who are poor, Black and oppressed. We will talk on behalf of our people in South Africa, while the others are being silenced because of the state of emergency. We will use this platform to speak, because we must be heeded one day. However, I am afraid we are moving backwards at the moment. We will leave no stone unturned and this is to the advantage of all South Africans, White and Black.

Another abomination is the ambulance services. It is an abomination which must be eradicated when it comes to colour. Ambulances travel thousands of kilometres and then simply turn back when the person who needs help is Black. [Interjections.] Where does the morality of South Africans lie? In the colour of our skins or in our pride in being South Africans? What happens when there is a serious accident? How does the ambulanceman decide when he must pick up a patient? We are talking about these problems because we understand this. We know that ambulances sometimes travel hundreds of kilometres before the actual patient is picked up. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, the hon previous speaker must excuse me for not responding to his speech. I would very much like to do so. I am sorry that in the politics of today we elevate incidents to the level of principles and want to blow incidents up into general statements which are not always true. I think that if these unfortunate circumstances prevail in some parts, they should be put right. I do not, however, think that we should generalise to such an extent that the entire system is thrown overboard, simply because we want to be different. [Interjections.]

I should like to deal with the Roads Division. I want to express my personal thanks and appreciation to the hon Mr Fanie Schoeman, our retiring MEC, for the wonderful work he has done in the interests of South Africa over many years—I think this is already our nineteenth year in politics. I want to thank him for the way he has worked and for the attitude he has adopted in his work.

I also want to thank the hon Mr Terblanche for the valuable work he has done, and express the gratitude and appreciation of our side of the House for his loyal service as an official over many years in South Africa. Together with the hon Mr Schoeman, MEC, and his predecessor, he leaves a rich legacy to the hon Mr Ferreira, MEC. The hon Mr Ferreira did not have the privilege of being congratulated by his former stable-mate, the person with whom he worked in Waterberg, because, for good reasons, that person did not think it would serve any useful purpose to congratulate an old stable-mate of his on a good promotion. I do not think that our political differences should prevent us from displaying basic good manners towards one another. I think the hon Mr Ferreira, MEC, has a very rich legacy in respect of roads in South Africa, in particular with regard to what has been done in the Transvaal.

I have made the following approximate summary: A 19 000 kilometre tarred road, virtually 30 000 kilometres of numbered dirt roads, a further 5 000 kilometres of roads which the province faithfully maintains when they fall into disrepair. If I heard correctly, I think the hon Mr Schoeman, MEC, managed to achieve this in co-operation with the rural community by making graders available. He also developed a positive sense of responsibility and an open-handed policy in respect of self-help and mutual support in the maintenance of essential roads in the rural areas of the Transvaal. It is an achievement that he was able to hand over the Transvaal’s roads in the good condition in which he did, in fact, hand them over, particularly at this time of the year, when we have had such a rainy season in which it is extremely difficult to maintain our roads and in which it becomes increasingly difficult to do so. We express our appreciation to him for this.

I think that in the short time at my disposal I should like to pause at the item which hits us the hardest and which is the biggest headache, namely throughways. These give us big headaches owing to the enormous expenditure involved in one kilometre of such a road. I want to congratulate the Transvaal and thank them for the pro-active investigation that was launched in the 1970s into the PWV system and the throughway system which was mapped and then put forward as a solution to the transport problems of the Transvaal.

I think we should tell the hon Mr Ferreira, MEC, that the fine system that was planned could not be implemented everywhere. We must take another level-headed look at this matter. At times it was with hard words and at other times with a positive attitude, as Mr Terblanche will remember, that we eventually arrived at a neat solution in the PWV 13 and 14 combination. At times there were very unpleasant exchanges, but after positive discussions, after listening to one another, and after a great deal of give and take, we were able to bring two of those roads together.

We have recently had exactly the same situation with two K-routes, namely the most recent proposal of the K90 which runs through Boksburg and the K94 with all the problems we experienced in this regard. I can give the following advice to the hon the Administrator and his MECs, including the new one he has appointed. Other solutions can be found by listening to one another, by going to the specific site, and by experiencing all the concomitant problems of decision-making. A short distance away from the K90 and at the junction of the K94, and together with the PWV 13 and 14, there is another throughway still to be built there, namely the PWV 15. The whole system falls, as it were, under my constituency, and I have taken this back to the Pomona area. A tremendous price will have to be paid merely to get through the layers of clay and I do not envisage our ever having enough money to build that road.

There is a further problem in this regard, and I want to impress on hon members how important it is. In the 1970s, we ourselves bought up the road reserves in good faith. However, we are now talking about good commercial areas with very strong, active industries. One now has properties that have been sold out and that are lying there unutilised. The result is twofold. Firstly, who, after all, looks at the building regulations? Who, for example, looks at the health regulations and their application and implementation?

A question which comes to mind is whether, in regard to this kind of property, we are at all sure that we do not have sub-leasing and all the related shortcomings there? Is the leasing of those properties at all market-related? Is it adaptable from time to time? If not, is it a paying proposition for a person, who has the right to own a property, to let that property to somebody else and make a living in that way? The situation lends itself to tremendous exploitation. I have only a suspicion that this is happening. There are rumours that it does happen. I have not confirmed these rumours. There is a case which I do appreciate. If one increases the rent of dwellings too much, the houses will naturally end up empty, and an empty house causes greater problems. As far as commercial and industrial areas are concerned, is there no collusion or a connivance between the neighbour and the person who then rents from the province?

All I am asking, is for us to undertake a thorough investigation into these areas—there are probably other areas in the Transvaal where this is also the case. We must examine the leasing tariffs and the control of those tariffs. In my discussions with the officials I found out that the provincial authority did not have enough officials to keep an eye on this sort of thing either. I appreciate this, but I regret the fact. It is something we should examine closely. If we do not give attention to the matter, it will develop into something that we would not like to see happening.

If I look at the funds that are possibly available and at everything that is still on the drawing board and is still to be built, and I look at all the concomitant inter-provincial committees that have been established in respect of roads and traffic systems, I see that we have really reached a point at which we shall have to give serious attention to the whole matter. Can we in South Africa ever hope to make provision for all the vehicles which must criss-cross the country? Can we build roads for every private car and for every individual who owns two or three cars? Can we provide for everyone on the lavish scale we have tried to maintain up to now? We will have to undertake a transport system in South Africa as a national activity and as a national focal point, and if we do not do so, I foresee the whole system eventually seizing up. Even with the planning of the 1970s, we could at a later stage find ourselves in a situation in which we are unable to meet the needs of the heavily populated areas such as the PWV, even if we were to build all the roads that are currently on the drawing board. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, let me begin by saying that I hope I am not the only member from the Cape Province who is present here this morning, although I am the only member representing my party here.

While the muttering on the opposite side continues, I want to begin on a note of reform. I must say that the task of reform is not solely the task of the Central Government. We cannot expect the Central Government alone to bring about reform. It is also the responsibility of the provincial authorities—that is why we are sitting here this morning—and the responsibility of local government. Even the individual must become involved. If all of us are not going to co-operate to bring about reform one might as well discard the whole effort now and say: “No, man, forget about reform. Leave everything just the way it is now!” All of us are involved and none of us can shift our involvement onto any other person or any other body.

The Transvaal probably has the largest population of all the provinces. The Transvaal is also known as one of the two provinces which, in the past, did not treat what we used to call non-Whites very well. In plain language we would have said that they gave us short shrift. They gave us very short shrift, they jostled us off the side-walks, and so on. Today, however, a change is discernible. Apparently a change has taken place. Anyone who tells me that no change has taken place, should have his eyes examined. [Interjections.] A great deal has happened.

Even the LP brags about their being responsible for more than 30 old discriminatory laws and regulations having being abolished. [Interjections.] If that is their story, then they must not rise to their feet here and say that no change has taken place. Then surely that is a lie and a farce. One must be honest in politics. I have no special fondness for the NP. I have even less for the CP. I can say, however, that I do not merely look at a person’s bad points while I fail to see his good points. I see both sides. Even if I do not like a person, I do want to know what his good points are, because the good points can be utilised to the benefit of the whole community.

†Mr Chairman, yesterday when we were investigating facilities during the committee meeting I noticed that every time we talked, we talked about facilities for Coloureds, facilities for Whites, facilities for Indians and facilities for Blacks.

*Everyone is obsessed with race groups.

†Everybody is concerned with race groups. When will people start looking for something for everybody? When will we start talking about all of us? That is where the reform process should start. One has to stop thinking of matters in racial terms. Even the concept of multiracialism is objectionable to me. I talk about nonracialism. There should not be any race in South Africa at all. One should talk in terms of people. One’s very reform starts with one’s way of thinking. One should start thinking not in terms of races and groups, but in terms of people and individuals.

Secondly, we heard about people who reside or do business in a place, having to apply for permits. We heard about people who find that they are doing business or residing in the wrong kind of area. My hon friends in the House of Representatives said there had been no reform. I do not know whether they have heard about the Free Settlement Areas Act which was passed by Parliament last year. One should do away with the Group Areas Act but one has to start somewhere. Why dispute the implementation of the Free Settlement Areas Act while we are sitting around and waiting for the Group Areas Act to be scrapped? Why not proceed apace with the implementation of this Act so that at least we can have some reform for people to see? At least we have brought the passing of this Act about. We have not acted on it much but we have brought it about. These gentlemen can therefore not tell me that no reform has taken place. That is only one of the things I want to mention. If I had to go back to my books—I am sure everybody has records—I am sure I would take up the whole morning telling hon members what fine reform had been brought about. We must therefore be honest in our way of thinking. We must be honest when we come up to this podium and we criticize or talk. One can criticize in a constructive way. [Interjections.]

Order! The hon members of the LP are going to receive many turns to speak, while the hon member of the Democratic Reform Party will not receive another. The hon member must be given an opportunity to complete his speech without unnecessary interjections. The hon member for Matroosfontein may proceed.

Thank you very much, Mr Chairman. In any case, I want to conclude. I want to tell those hon members that I would not be so rude as to shout and mutter while they were talking. I am a person who has been properly brought up. I grew up in poverty, but I was taught to be respectful. I did not come from an affluent home as some of them did. I am the son of an ordinary labourer, a pick and shovel man, but I am respectful. My father had very little education, but he had many principles and he drilled those principles into me so that I have respect for other people. If I do not like what they say, Sir—you can watch me if you like—I would prefer to walk out, but I will never mutter while another man is speaking; I will never do that.

Mr Chairman, pardon me for not following on the hon member who has just spoken. It appears to me that he has some grouse about the members of the Labour Party and I think that they should settle this matter between themselves afterwards.

Mr Chairman, the CP still finds it unacceptable that the Transvaal Administration has a budget of R3 744,8 million for the 1989-90 financial year and is controlled by an Executive Committee which is not elected by Transvaal voters but consists of appointed “your obedient servants” of the NP and other well-disposed politicians. According to us these members are merely responsible to their lord and master and in no way accountable to the taxpayer of the Transvaal.

Mr Chairman, in spite of this composition, it is nevertheless a pity that the only member who to my mind is worth his salt, that is Mr Fanie Schoeman, now has to leave the Executive Committee and bid it farewell. I want to extend my personal best wishes to him for the future but, Mr Schoeman, do not let yourself be appointed to another position again in which you are expected to serve the NP in another way. I depend on your sound judgement.

I want to congratulate the Administrator, Mr Hough, on his appointment. I know Mr Hough; we served on the Provincial Council together. I wish him the very best of luck and a successful period of office—to the officials who are retiring we also say a big thank you for their services.

The budgeted amount, in comparison with that of the previous Provincial Council, is the biggest ever, that is R3 744,8 million, but only about 3% higher than that of last year. There is therefore no question of real growth. Other hon members on this side of the House will elaborate on this on a later occasion.

Mr Chairman, I should like to deal with a matter on which I have also put written questions and received replies. I am doing this in consequence of press reports which appeared in, inter alia, the Pretoria News of 14 March 1989 and Beeld of 15 March 1989. It deals with a contract which was entered into in 1982 for the provision of both a service contract between the Inter Radio (Pty) Ltd company and the Department of Local Government of the Transvaal Provincial Administration for the provision and maintenance of radios for civil defence in the Transvaal. This contract was for five years and would have expired on 30 June 1987. The contract also provided for an extension for periods of two years.

The Inter Radio (Pty) Ltd company was liquidated on 5 November 1986 and the contract has been operated by another company, Yeddo, from 5 January 1987. In October 1987 the Yeddo company was informed that the TPA was to discontinue calling for tenders for the provision of radios and that only quotations would be called for. The following quotations were received: Messina Electronics at R288 per unit, Yeddo at R713,40 per unit and Quale and Dowse at R732 per unit, which was accepted.

Mr Chairman, if the quotation of Messina Electronics had been accepted, the Provincial Administration would have saved R506 160 or 250% and in the case of Yeddo R21 660. This action cannot be called anything but reckless extravagance and I should like to put the question today whether there is another reason. In addition it appears from the reply to the question that 8% of the radios gave problems and that in spite of this they were accepted as reliable by the province whereas the accepted norms regarding reliability are approximately 1%.

I should further like to point out that to my knowledge and according to information Messina Electronics is not a small, trifling company but part of a large or the largest group in South Africa which manufactures electronic equipment, that is the Fintec-Altron group of companies. My questions to the administration are: 1. What important advantages did the Quale and Dowse tender hold for the TPA to force the TPA to pay so much more? 2. Did the TPA benefit financially in changing the contractor or was the TPA adversely affected? 3. Is the service of the new contractor of a higher quality than that of the previous contractor? 4. Did the Provincial Secretary take note that possible irregularities were taking place in his department when he started receiving questions from the Advocate-General? 5. If so, did he order an investigation and take steps against certain persons who were involved in the negotiation? If not, the question may be put “why not?”.

Mr Chairman, another aspect is the specifications which are required to which equipment has to conform. So, for instance, the specifications of the TPA tender of October 1987 were of such a nature that the Barcon firm could not tender because they could not comply with the specifications. The result was that there was only one remaining tender and from the outset it was therefore an open and shut case who would receive the contract for the provision and consequently the maintenance contract afterwards. All this while Barcon supplies the following bodies with radios: The South African Police, the South African Defence Force, the Department of Justice, the Department of Health and approximately 1 000 farmers on the border. Compare this with the Quale and Dowes model which to my knowledge is used only by the TPA civil defence and the TED. The argument that there should be standardisation does not hold water either, just as little as it applies in respect of vehicles for Government departments.

By the way, tender ZT 5349 of the Lebowa Government, which is being advertised at present, was presumably formulated so that only the Philips agent at Pietersburg would be able to qualify for it. Possibly it should be recalled for investigation because that tender document does not contain full information.

Mr Chairman, I next want to refer to two hospital tenders for radios, that is 1/33/87 and 1/34/87. As regards the maintenance tender 1/33/87, it was advertised and awarded first. The provision contract HD 1/34/87 was advertised afterwards. The question is why this was done on such a back-to-front basis. The question may be asked with justification whether it was not handled like this deliberately so that the successful tenderer for the maintenance contract would also receive the provision contract and probably at a very much higher price. The argument could apparently be that it is easier to hold only one contractor responsible. The essential question then is why the two tenders were not dealt with simultaneously in one tender.

Mr Chairman, the Marnet specifications in this contract mean that Marnet can only be dialled within a service area having a single Marnet console, that is to say, an extremely limited application, probably at enormously high costs. Only Midland Radio meets all the specifications and has 80 channels, which is apparently what was called for in the tender documents. To our knowledge, Midland was not registered with the Defence Force for Marnet. This also results in all South African-manufactured radios being eliminated.

By the way, there are South African models with 40 channels of which one requires only 31. The vast majority of radios operate within a specific area which makes 80 channels unnecessary. Only a few radios for the personnel at head office, for instance, need all 31 channels. In other words, unnecessarily expensive radios are being specified for purchase. Preference for South African products is made impossible by the specifications.

It is said that a portion of this contract was awarded to Brandon Communications. This company also had a maintenance contract with the Department of Development Aid which was the subject of investigations by the Advocate-General and the South African Police. The same affair gave rise to the suspension of 11 members of staff of the Department of Development Aid. According to information, contracts for both the hospital services and the Department of Development Aid were cancelled in terms of State Tender Regulation 53(b).

I have referred only to procedures in terms of which tenders are called for and have mentioned that only quotations were called for. I am of the opinion that the Transvaal Provincial Administration made a serious mistake in not calling for tenders in terms of the State Tender Board Act in the purchase of civil defence radios. I consider an investigation into this of urgent importance. I have only attempted to disclose the important information at my disposal here but am of the opinion that there is enough information available to justify a thorough investigation. Beeld of 15 March 1989 said, and I quote:

My urgent request is that the details now be made public.

I should like to refer to a matter to which I think insufficient attention is being paid. This is the site where toll-gates are being introduced, or are still to be introduced, and where alternative routes have to be used. Toll-gates are not the responsibility of the administration but the alternative routes are certainly roads which fall under the administration. In reply to a written question whether the administration had actually budgeted for alternative routes, the reply was no and that it was the responsibility of the Department of Transport. That is not good enough and it is not acceptable either. Not one of these alternative routes currently in use or which is to be made available in the future has been designed to carry increased traffic. The security aspect on these roads will also be in question.

I should like to refer to the proposed toll-gate which is to be erected at Heidelberg. Firstly, neither the community of Heidelberg nor I am in favour of the introduction of the toll-gate as the Department of Transport plans. It will result in the old Alberton-Heidelberg road, which is a provincial road, then becoming the alternative route. This road cannot handle heavy traffic. Firstly, the road is too narrow and the safety of the user will be jeopardised. Secondly, the road will not be able to carry the heavier traffic because it was not designed for this. This road will be used in particular by heavy vehicles from the industrial cities of the East Rand, for example, Wadeville, Germiston, Boksburg, Springs, Alberton and others. I should like to warn the administration today that, if this road is to be used as an alternative route, and it seems to me that this is cut and dried, it will start crumbling within a year and endanger many lives. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, allow me to extend my good wishes to the Administrator and to the new MEC, Mr Fanie Ferreira, and also to Mr Schoeman. I thank him for all the work that he has done for the Province and wish him well in his future endeavours.

I want to respond, firstly, to the Administrator’s speech where he says that he wishes to emphasize that the Administration considers it a challenge that even if no additional funds are obtained, nevertheless to continue to render as many services as possible to the inhabitants of the Transvaal. The first challenge that he can expect is to delay the transfer of powers to the own affairs administrations, more so to the own affairs of the House of Assembly. The own affairs administrations in the Houses of Delegates and Representatives have declined to accept this. I think he should delay the transfer of these powers to the own affairs administration of the House of Assembly, because if that happens, it would be the worst form of perpetuating the obnoxious apartheid system in this country. You are going to get hospitals that are going to stand vacant because of the low occupancy rates in the White community. Eventually those hospitals are going to be used as old age homes for the White community. That is one of the things that is a challenge to the Province and to the Administrator in his new capacity, which he should look into seriously to delay the transfer of those powers.

I want to make a few observations with regard to the regional services councils and the speculation on increased taxation. We in this day and age in this country cannot afford a further form of taxation in an already strangled and over-taxed economy. Any form of taxation in the form of regional services council levies must be stopped. There is speculation about this in the Press. The hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning has made certain comments. The MEC in charge of regional services councils must ensure that there are no further forms of taxation by way of levies of regional services councils. Those people who had objected to the original Regional Services Councils Bill had advanced this argument initially. It would appear as if their arguments are now bearing fruit. With regard to regional services councils, the misuse of the voting strength of the larger local authorities must be investigated. What attention is being given to the concept of equal voting rights for all constituents, irrespective of their voting strength in terms of what is allocated to them by a regional services council, in particular the Central Witwatersrand Regional Services Council? There are the smaller communities who do not have equal voting strength to that of the larger communities like for example Johannesburg. What attention from the side of the province is being given to have equal voting for these local authorities?

When the Promotion of Local Government Affairs Bill was first introduced, in accordance with the approved communication, representatives of management committees from the Natal and Free State region were allowed to sit in at the meetings of the parent local authorities. This concession did not apply to the Cape and the Transvaal. Is this matter being investigated, and if so, how far have we progressed? Last year the comment was made, and I am going to raise it again here today, that this is an extended sitting of Parliament. Why is an invitation not extended to the Transvaal Municipal Association, the Transvaal Association of Management Committees, UCASA and UCAT to attend these sittings? This is the forum where views can be exchanged. Every forum where negotiation takes place should be exploited to the fullest. It is my contention that members of these committees ought to be invited to sit in on this kind of discussion so that they can broaden their views.

I want to refer briefly to the incorporation of Lenasia which has been under discussion for the past twelve years. Lenasia is separated by two local authorities, one of which is now defunct. The general consensus of the people and everybody involved is that Lenasia should fall under the jurisdiction of the Johannesburg City Council. How far have we progressed with these negotiations and when are we going to get a final result? What is the future of the two management committees? Are they going to amalgamate? If so, what are the criteria that are going to be applied for such an amalgamation?

I now want to talk about hospital services, and in particular the Lenasia Hospital. Firstly, I want to record the appreciation of the people of that community to the province for the role it has played to get that hospital commissioned on 11 January.

However, Mr Chairman, those funds were made available by the House of Delegates. In this year’s Budget, one sees no funds made available by the provincial administration for the Lenasia hospital. Why is this so?

I believe, Sir, that the provincial administration wants the Lenasia hospital to be an own affair, to be taken over by the Administration: House of Delegates. The hon the Minister of Health Services and Welfare in the Ministers’ Council of the House of Delegates has given us an undertaking that this hospital will not be taken over by the Administration: House of Delegates and will never be an own affair. Why is no provision made in the Budget for us to provide services and why are no additional amounts appropriated for the full operation of the Lenasia hospital? When is the Lenasia hospital going to be fully operational?

I have just discovered that hospitals are graded or classified into certain groupings. An L1 hospital is a full-time medical and academic hospital, an L2 hospital is a non-academic one and an L3 hospital is a community hospital. Who grades these? How is grading done? How was the Lenasia hospital graded before any statistics as to the intake of that hospital were available? If a hospital is graded as an L3 hospital, it will never be a full-time hospital. That is the information I have, and if that is true it is disgraceful that these facts had not been made available to the community of Lenasia.

I believe the Laudium Hospital is also an L3 one, and if that is true, that hospital also will never be a full-time hospital because in terms of the grading and classification system only part-time doctors can be appointed to an L3 hospital. Posts for the appointment of part-time doctors as such cannot be advertised, which means that if someone is injured in an accident, he is treated by a casualty officer, who is an MD and is qualified slightly better than a GP. There is no specialized treatment or specialized doctor who has been appointed to take care of a specific field. There is one person who knows a little about everything who renders treatment, or a sessional specialist who comes in twice a week who renders services.

Who rates hospitals? Who classifies hospitals? Why are they classified according to this system for a population of more than 200 000? If we also take Ennerdale and the Black communities, we have 300 000 people coming there. What right does the provincial administration have to classify the Lenasia hospital as an L3 hospital? Like I have said, Sir, it is utterly disgraceful.

Then I come to the hospital board. We have had several comments and several newspaper articles. One of the newspapers that has been featuring the hospital board very prominently is The Indicator and the only good thing about all these articles is that the hon the MEC in charge of hospital services is smiling at us.

There is a grave disparity and contradiction. The hon the Minister of Health Services and Welfare in the Ministers’ Council of the House of Delegates says that the hospital board is appointed by the provincial authorities. Nominations are called for from members of Parliament and the final appointments are made by the provincial authorities. What was the basis used for the appointment of that hospital board? One person is appointed from Marlboro, which is 60 km from Lenasia. Another is appointed from Roshnee, which is a distance away. There is absolutely nobody from Ennerdale, there is nobody from the Black community. Who made the final appointment? The hon the Minister of Health Services and Welfare is on record as having said that he did not make the appointments, he merely made recommendations in respect of nominations that were made by members of Parliament. In the article contained in the issue dated 8—15 February 1989 the hon the MEC in charge of hospitals mentions only the names of two members of Parliament who have made recommendations. In an earlier article, the hon the Minister of Health Services and Welfare clearly mentions three MPs, as well as the ministerial representative. Who is contradicting whom?

Then, Mr Chairman, what are the functions of a hospital board? In terms of the regulations that I have read, a hospital board is merely a glorified fund-raising committee. It has basically no powers. I am aware of the fact that the hospital board of the Lenasia hospital has recommended the appointment of a superintendent for that hospital, but the hospital board was told that somebody else made a recommendation for another person as superintendent. If the recommendations of a hospital board are not accepted, why does one have a hospital board? There is no need to have a hospital board constituted. One might as well disband that board and then the provincial administration can make all the recommendations.

I want to know who made the recommendations for the appointment of the superintendent for the Lenasia Hospital. Is there a political influence? Is a ministerial representative influencing the appointment of the superintendent? I have it on good authority that if the recommendation of the hospital board is not accepted, that hospital board is going to resign en bloc.

Tell us why.

Because their recommendations are not accepted, and you do not need a hospital board if the hospital board’s recommendations are not accepted.

Then, Sir, I want to talk about the proclamation of Lenasia, Extensions 9 and 10. We have certain answers to the written questions submitted by some of my colleagues, but I want to draw this comparison: The proclamation of Lenasia seems to be a game of musical chairs between the provincial administration and the Administration: House of Delegates. When the music starts, they move around in accordance with the rules of the game, following one another. When the music stops, one of them, in accordance with the rules of the game, occupies the chair. We want to know for once: When is it going to be proclaimed, and who is delaying the proclamation?

The Administration: House of Delegates says it is with the Provincial Administration. The Provincial Administration says it is with the State Attorney’s office, and then it goes back. I heard just yesterday that the Administration: House of Delegates had applied for the delay of proclamation. If this is true, we want to know why. Why is there a delay? After 12 years a township has not yet been proclaimed. Why do people of colour have to wait for such a long time for townships to be proclaimed? Every day we read in the newspapers that townships have been proclaimed for White communities. Why not for the Indian community or the Coloured community or the Black community?

Mr Chairman, with regard to the issue of the group areas promise, we must accept as a fait accompli that certain areas of the country are going to be grey areas. At the moment they are being considered by the Free Settlement Board. Irrespective of what the recommendations of that board are going to be, I want to make this appeal: When permits are issued, they should be issued for acquisition and occupation, not simply for occupation. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, you will agree with me that those who pay tax, pay too much tax. All students of the finances of this State agree that those who pay tax, whether personal or company tax, pay too much. Because that is the case, the expenditure of the State is too high. If the expenditure of the State was not too high, it would not be necessary for those who pay tax under the present circumstances to pay too much tax.

The pressure on the taxpayer, on those who pay tax, is too high. It is too high because the tax base is at present too narrow. There are too few people who pay tax. [Interjections.] You can react with a rude remark now if you like, but I want to tell you that between 50% and 60% of the families in this country are living below the poverty datum line of R385 per month. Between 50% and 60% of the families in this country are earning less than R385 per month. In addition, economically active persons earning R8 000 or less pay no tax, or very little tax.

But, Sir, that is not the only problem. This can be solved by economic growth, it can be solved by the proposed new tax system recommended by the Margo Commission.

“Fires”, you are struggling, friend.

Income from companies has been obstructed by disinvestment and trade boycotts. Investment is being further curtailed by the dearth of international credit. One no longer receives international credit to establish local industries, which can pay tax and create jobs for people who can in turn, pay tax on their earnings. That is all I want to say about the tax aspect.

Sir, I want to say the following about excessive Government expenditure: Under the present economic circumstances we have too many laws, ordinances and regulations that have to be administered and too many services that we have to render at the insistence of the voters. We can no longer afford it.

In those times when money was plentiful, when our economy and all of us in this country were prospering, we rendered services which were not really necessary and we also nationalised services that were rendered by the private sector. Under the present circumstances we can hardly afford those services any more. The consequence is that every Government department and every administration has a shortage of funds with which to do their work. Just as this administration is not being adequately financed by this budget, it was equally impossible to provide any other provincial administration with adequate funds.

Because the State has to compete for loan funds on the local market, it is leading to rising interest rates and a higher inflation rate. Our personal savings level is nearing zero, and if there are no personal savings, there is no money for investment in industries. If there is no money for investment in industries, there is no profit on which tax is payable, nor are there any wages or savings on which personal tax is payable. This leads to unemployment. The fact that there are no personal savings leads to unemployment, it leads to poverty and poverty is the one major issue we shall have to address in the nineties. We shall have to deal with it.

I have already said that none of the departments is being adequately funded and that services are not being rendered to everyone’s satisfaction because there are not enough funds, because the taxpayers under these circumstances are already overburdened and because the tax base is not broad enough. According to the hon the Minister of Finance we are at this stage already raising loans to cover current expenditure. This country, which is a growing country, cannot afford to do this.

It is easy to talk about these matters and then simply resume one’s seat. However, I want to try to suggest a few solutions to this problem.

Excessive Government spending is equal to too large a tax burden on the present taxpayer. At the beginning of the eighties we instituted an investigation into laws and ordinances that were not really serving their purpose and which could be abolished. It was not a very successful attempt. I think that the Government and the Administration should take a fresh look at laws and ordinances that are not really serving any purpose and which could conveniently be deleted, so that the administration thereof, which costs money, will no longer be necessary.

Redundant services or services which are not really the responsibility of the authorities must be terminated. Privatisation and deregulation can and must be accelerated, also and particularly by local authorities. Systems and procedures which are not cost-effective must be abolished or replaced. That is why it is with great pleasure that we take cognisance of the function evaluation system which is now being applied in the Department of Works and the result that is contemplated. This function evaluation stems from the report of the Crafford Committee, which was appointed a few years ago by the hon the Minister of Finance to institute an investigation into the abolition of systems and procedures that were not cost-effective.

The subsidisation of goods and services must, wherever possible, be phased out. Subsidisation costs far more money than merely the funds involved. The liquidation of unproductive assets, such as unimproved and surplus properties, must be accelerated. Productivity of labour, capital and raw materials must be drastically increased and must be utilised to the maximum. Dramatic economic growth, by means of which jobs are created, profits are made and tax generated, must be initiated. The announcement made during the week by the hon the Minister of Economic Affairs and Technology in this connection is going to be of great assistance.

Mr Chairman, if the Administration can make a contribution towards ensuring that every rand at their disposal and every rand which is placed at their disposal by the taxpayer is utilised to generate optimum productivity in the interests of that taxpayer, it will be to the benefit of everyone. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, here we are debating the budget in an extended public committee for the second year. However, it is the third year that the provincial budget is linked to the first level of government, where we take part in it. Let us look at what has changed in those three years.

There have been no changes. There have been no changes in the budget. If one looks at the budget, Sir, it stinks of apartheid. It stinks of discrimination. There is no getting away from it, Sir; this budget is a discriminatory budget and it is going to remain one as long as we have people thinking in the direction of the NP at this stage. Much blame has been put on the CP. I do not agree with the policy of the CP, Sir. I do not agree with it at all. But, Sir, the CP is not our problem; our problem now is the NP. The NP is the party responsible for the legislation. It is the party that is passing all these laws that are not called for.

Let us look at the Boksburg/Carletonville issue. We cannot point a finger at the CP; we must point it at the people who are holding the laws in their hands, and at this stage that is the NP. They are the cause of our problems. There are a lot of NP interjections. You know who I am speaking about. They are our problem and not the CP. The day the CP takes over the Government, then they become our problem. We will then deal with them in the manner in which we should deal with them. Right now we are going to deal with the NP—they have to change. We are looking to a better South Africa.

*In our debates in Parliament we listened to many enlightened speeches, in fact too many. But what is in fact happening?

†What is happening outside? There are no changes. There are no changes at all. The NP continues to knock the CP for bringing in “klein apartheid”, but they are not doing it of their own accord. The NP is sitting with the legislation. They should scrap it; show the CP that the NP is interested in change. They cannot sit there with the laws and then tell the CP that they are wrong. They should scrap the laws. I dare the NP to scrap those laws and show the CP that “klein apartheid” will go. I dare them.

Let us look at the hon the Administrator’s speech. What did he mean when he talked about privatising roads? Is he again going to toll our roads? That is privatisation in the eyes of the ruling party, the Government. The hon the Administrator can shake his head. We are the people who have to suffer. We are the people who have go through it, not the hon the Administrator; so he does not have to shake his head here. We are the people who suffer as a result of the laws made by the NP, of which the hon the Administrator forms part. He cannot run away from it; there is no separating himself from the NP.

Mr Chairman, the privatising of roads is unacceptable. Let us first of all have a look at the condition of the provincial roads. The provincial road leading into a so-called non-White area is always of the lowest standard. Always. The maintenance of those roads is always practically nil. Look at the sides of these roads: The grass is never cut there and there are always potholes, but when it comes to a provincial road leading to a White area one sees a difference.

*The NP, however, points its finger at that side. It would be better to turn round and point a finger back at the NP.

†They should ask themselves what they have done to rectify the problem.

Let me deal with the hon the Administrator. I write letters to the hon the Administrator concerning problems with our licensing. He does not answer my letters. He goes to where the problem is—out in Westonaria—listens to what they have to say and then answers them. He does not investigate it himself. I mean, a person could write a letter to me, saying that the hon the Administrator had done something wrong. I would listen to the hon the Administrator and see what he said. I would go through and have a look at what is happening. I see his point, but he is here to protect the Whites.

*The hon the Administrator can shake his head, but it is a fact.

†He is here to protect the White community and there is no running away from it. He has proved it over and over again to me. I have contacted him about this peri-urban area that he is supposed to be Administrator of. I have contacted him about it and until today I have not yet had any reply. Why have I not had a reply? It is because of the colour of my skin; that is why he will not reply immediately. Whether hon members want to disagree with me or not, it does not matter.

*First abolish the laws and then we can talk. However, while the laws exist, I say that the CP must go out of its way to prove the NP wrong. The CP will show that the NP is wrong. Hon members can make as much noise as they like. It has always been like this; if someone states the facts, they want to make a noise. That is when they want to tell us what is wrong and what is right.

†They should look at what they are doing. They must look at their group areas, and then they tell me I do not know what I am talking about. They should not tell me while there are laws protecting them as Whites. Do not tell me that I am wrong. The same goes for the hon the Administrator. As long as he has laws protecting him, he should not tell me I am wrong in what I am saying. I will continue pointing it out because I have a responsibility out there. The hon the Administrator or anyone in his office, be it an MEC or not, does not have to go back to any voters and tell them what is going on. He does not have to; I have to, and then I have to put up with answers from the hon the Administrator which are unacceptable. If I go to buy a motor vehicle licence in Westonaria and I am told to come back because the computer is not working, the hon the Administrator turns around and tells me my facts are wrong and I do not know what I am talking about. I say again it is because of the colour of my skin. That is the only reason.

You are talking nonsense.

Now I know where the NP is sensitive—about the colour of my skin. That is their sensitive spot.

†Until the day they realize that that is their problem, South Africa will not change. South Africa will never change with the atmosphere of the NP around us. If the NP members do not pull up their socks and get rid of their apartheid, the CP will overtake them.

You approve of the CP.

I do not approve of the CP. I am glad that my neighbour who is a member of the CP is sitting quietly at the back there.

We are going to take Turffontein as well.

It is the NP that is the problem.

†I am coming back to the peri-urban issue. I telephoned the hon the Administrator at his office and left a message. I am still waiting for a reply. There are people working on the Board for the Development of Peri-Urban Areas who have the same attitude as the NP—of course because they are appointed by the NP. They have to have the same attitude—the colour of their skin determines who they will or will not speak to.

You are talking nonsense.

That hon member can say what he likes. I shall tell him that outside, I shall tell him that in his constituency, I shall say it in a joint sitting. These are the facts.

†One cannot run away from it. As long as they have their laws which restrict me from doing certain things, I will continue telling them this. I will use Parliament and its debates to tell them what I think of them and what I feel inside, what their laws have done to me, what their laws deprive me of and what they have taken away from me. My life, my home, everything, has been taken away from me by their laws, their Group Areas Act. I am telling hon members openly that when I came to Parliament, I came with hatred in my heart for a White man. I will continue with that until those hon members at the back change their attitude towards us. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I hope my old friend, the hon member for Klipspruit West, will excuse me if I do not follow his argument, except to say that I agree with him that the problem is the NP. One listens to the hon member for Turffontein sitting in the front row, whose intellectual contribution to the debate was: “Jy praat twak.” It is one of his favourite phrases. But one knows that it is hurting when he makes that comment because everything that was said is true.

I want to sail in more tranquil waters this morning and talk about nature conservation. The job of the department is to conserve aspects of our natural heritage and allow us to retain and enjoy an environment which enhances our quality of life. I have always regarded the department as the Cinderella of the Administration; it has a minimal budget, but it carries out a task of vital importance for the future well-being of our country. It does not matter whatever sort of society we are eventually able to produce in South Africa, it does not matter how well constructed it may be, and it does not matter how peacefully people of different races can live together side by side; if the country that they live in has allowed major environmental degradation to take place, we as legislators have failed in our task. If we fail to conserve a land that is worth living in, we have failed in the task of building a future. Unless the activities of the Department of Nature Conservation have helped us not only to retain, but to improve our environment and thus our quality of life, the Department will have failed in its task.

I am afraid, Sir, that I believe many politicians and administrators in South Africa regard nature conservation as a department designed to produce public entertainment for people who enjoy watching animals and getting away from the stresses and strains of modern living. They regard the task of the department purely as the provision of glorified zoos and recreation centres for public enjoyment; a sort of nature performing arts council. I have to tell these people that this department has a far more important and fundamental task in the conservation of our environment. If we fail to protect our environment, we run the very serious risk of ultimately destroying our world completely.

Environmentalists and ecologists have consistently been warning against the dangers which confront us as a result of the abuse of our environment. The ever-increasing population has placed intolerable strains on this world and on this country, intolerable strains. It has also placed in serious jeopardy the ability of this world to sustain life. There seems to be no realization that the preservation of the balance of nature is vital for our survival.

Now, Sir, this may all sound very dramatic, over-dramatic, if you like; a sort of doomsday scenario. However, more and more scientists are warning of the major risks we are taking because of our inability to protect the balance of nature. One only has to look at the tremendous damage caused in Europe by acid rain, a big problem in the Transvaal, and the devastating consequences of that, such as the destruction of vegetation and the danger to fruit crops, that is taking place every day. This is frightening. The significance of this loss of vegetation is sometimes not realized. The very air that we breathe is threatened. Another example: We only have to look at the problems the world is facing as a result of the depletion of the ozone layer to realize the vital importance of taking action in this respect.

In our own province, the Transvaal, we face severe environmental problems. We face major air pollution, partly as the result of the operations of our many major power stations, and also from Sasol. We face serious problems resulting from our population explosion. We face problems of the erosion of our soil. We face problems of irretrievable damage that has been done to our fauna and flora, which are so vital to the balance of nature. Without this balance, this world could well fall apart in terms of human habitation.

Sir, it is in this particular area that the Department of Nature Conservation in the Transvaal is of vital importance. I described the Department as the Cinderella department in that it has a very small, in fact, a tiny budget; this year, it is in the region of R25 million. It has to carry out its vital task when other, better-endowed departments use up our limited financial resources in tasks which do not carry the ultimate responsibility for our future that nature conservation has to carry.

My speech is really a heartfelt plea for a new look at the whole question of nature conservation in terms of the priorities for expenditure. There are fields in which the department should be operating in which it is not. The responsibilities of the department should be extended in a variety of areas. When provincial roads are built, there are inevitably environmental consequences. When any major works are carried out, there are always ecological consequences. I believe that the department should have the responsibility for conducting environmental impact assessments for any major work envisaged by the provincial authorities. The concept of this sort of assessment is a relatively new one, but I think that the realization is growing that if we are not absolutely meticulous in carrying out such studies, the results can be major environmental degradation. I believe that the department should have the responsibility for monitoring any operation which has environmental consequences.

It could be said that this is the responsibility of the national Department of Environment Affairs, but I see that department’s role as a co-ordinating one.

At present we have a quite ridiculous structure when it comes to conservational and environmental matters, and of course the two are inextricably bound together. The Department of Environment Affairs supposedly has control of all matters affecting the environment and conservation. The National Parks Board falls under its control, for example, the Kruger National Park, which happens to be in the Transvaal. Other nature conservation areas in the Transvaal are controlled by the provincial department. Control over the pollution of the atmosphere in the Transvaal falls under the Department of National Health and Population Development, which monitors the problem of the power stations and Sasol. Various township and other developments are handled by different provincial departments and there is no legal compulsion for any environmental scrutiny of such development.

This divided responsibility is wasteful in terms of duplication and is certainly not in the best interests of environmental conservation. I believe that it is vitally necessary for a major rationalization and reorganization to take place. I am not for a moment advocating the centralization of power; I believe that the Department of Environment Affairs should fulfil a co-ordinating role and that the provincial departments should be given greater powers, greater responsibilities and a larger slice of the financial resources in order to enable them to carry out their work. At present it is doing a splendid job through a dedicated staff with very limited financial resources. The operations of the department should enjoy a very much higher priority. At present it operates with a very low profile, and I would like to see it as a department with a very much higher profile.

I now want to come to a particular matter of urgent importance with regard to conservation. I would like to raise the matter of the legal penalties that apply for the contravention of provincial ordinances on conservation matters. These are totally inadequate and below the level. Penalties for poaching, for example, are ridiculously low. I am aware of the fact that recommendations have been made in respect of the poaching of rhino and, possibly, ivory. However, I want to urge that very much more severe penalties should also apply for poaching of species which are not endangered. Magistrates should be instructed to apply penalties in such a way that they become a real deterrent. At present they do not do so; they do not do so at all, Sir. I heard last year of a poaching case involving several impala and a couple of bush buck. Poachers from the Vaalwater area in the Waterberg were caught by a ranger in a private game reserve and were charged. Their appearance in court involved a nominal fine of, I believe, only R100; nowhere near the value of the game slaughtered. They were apprehended a second time and again the fine was nominal.

Poaching appears to be regarded in the same light as a schoolboy prank. In certain areas it has become a very profitable business and, Sir, it must be stopped. The only way in which it can be stopped is by enforcing penalties which are real deterrents. In particular, I would like to urge the rapid alteration of the ordinance involving the poaching of rhino and the smuggling of rhino horn. The situation has become so desperate that extremely urgent action is required and the ordinance should be amended within a matter of weeks, or even days, if that is possible. At present the penalties are quite laughable and out of proportion.

Another minor matter—I am certainly not going to complain about the increase in the size of the budget for this Department … [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it gives me great pleasure to participate in this debate this morning on the Province of Transvaal. In the first place, I would like to highlight the situation my constituents have to cope with.

I note under Vote No 4, Hospital Services, in the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure that only R450 has been allocated in respect of the Riverlea Out-patients Clinic. It seems to me as if no monitoring whatsoever is done in respect of this clinic. The Riverlea Clinic is not being utilized to its fullest, as the management of this clinic is not to the advantage of the residents. Therefore, I have recommended that this clinic be developed into a day hospital.

The proposed M4 toll road is planned adjacent to the area of Riverlea Extension 1, and this planning was executed without the knowledge of the residents. We have a delay from the city council as well, Mr Chairman. The city council of Johannesburg seems to be dragging its feet. A police station is also envisaged for this area and the city council is not concerned about allocating a site for this project.

The question of the control of pests in the Coronation Hospital was raised yesterday. I experienced this uncalled for health hazard when my daughter was admitted to this hospital and had to use a basin to spew in.

The basin was placed on the floor and when it was removed I saw approximately 25 to 30 cockroaches. Quite recently residents reported the same nuisance in the local press. Pest control should be thoroughly monitored at this hospital. Is it because it is a non-White hospital that no notice is taken of it?

I now come to Vote No 6, Roads and Bridges. The Nasrec Showground, Shareworld and the new NPSL Superstadium are being developed at the moment and they are adjacent to my constituency. The road that is utilized daily by the motorist going to these venues is called the Baragwanath Road. This road is the entrance to and exit from my constituency and it cannot carry all this traffic, especially at peak hours. I plead for the upgrading of this road as soon as possible.

The city council is dragging its feet with regard to the allocation of ground for the approved post office for Riverlea proper. This matter must be resolved as my constituents have to travel some distance in order to have access to the Langlaagte Post Office. All the recommendations for the upgrading and upliftment of Riverlea and its extentions are being ignored by the Johannesburg City Council. To me this is frustrating. Is it because this is a Coloured area? There is the problem of all the narrow roads in the townships; to me this is bad planning by the authorities concerned. This matter should be rectified and robots should be installed at the corner of Colorado Drive and Baragwanath Road.

The problem we have with the proclamation of Riverlea Extension 2 is something else which has to be resolved and finalized. It seems as though all the departments concerned are passing the buck. Minister Heunis and Deputy Minister Roelf Meyer blame the province who, in turn, blame the city council. They, in turn, blame the Mine Commissioner. As you know, it was originally, some 27 years ago, the intention to establish an industrial township on the land.

I will quote from a letter which I received from the Department of Mineral and Energy Affairs:

I now quote from a letter from the Acting City Secretary of the Johannesburg City Council:

I then received a letter from the Administrator of the Transvaal, saying:

I then received a letter from Minister Curry, saying:

Mr Chairman, nothing has happened yet. The Coloured people of this area are fed up with the delay. We are not a boycotting community, but if this occurs, then the various departments have only themselves to blame. This is a proud community but their wish to upgrade their homes is being delayed due to financial institutions refusing loans to these house owners. My plea is for the expediting of this issue as soon as possible.

I recently had the nasty experience of going fishing at the Vaal Dam. On arrival at the dam we found that the camping site was closed due to developments taking place. We then went to the administration offices in Deneysville and purchased fishing licences at R5 each. When I enquired from the assistant where we could fish we were told that no fishing sites were available for non-Whites.

What colour is that fish?

Why are there no alternative sites available for non-Whites on the Vaal Dam? I quote a question from the hon member Mr P R E da Gama:

The answer is as follows:

I would like to know from the department whether this will be an open site or whether there will be two separate sites. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Bosmont will forgive me if I do not react to his speech. There is a great deal of overlapping between the hon member’s constituency and my own, with the result that many of the problems about which the hon member spoke, are also my problems. He and I have engaged in a number of discussions in the past and it would seem to me that we should sit down together again and reflect on many of these problems. May I suggest that he invite me to dinner so that we may discuss these matters.

As behoves a good, hard-working, competent member of Parliament, I have prepared a good speech. I had wished to speak about pharmacists, the provision of medicines by the Province and ambulances. However, having listened to this debate, I shall call it a debate, I feel it may be necessary for us to conduct a debate with regard to certain points. I have therefore left that prepared speech of mine at my bench. I hope that I shall get around to it in the end. The hon member for Overvaal says: “Hear, hear!” I shall hopefully get around to him as well.

Let me begin with his leader. The hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly made a remark here with regard to the appointment of people to boards. I cannot recall the precise wording he used, but it boiled down to the fact that he would be wasting his time if he wished to react to the requests for recommendations. The former member for Langlaagte, who has, of course, meanwhile been replaced by a somewhat more competent member of the National Party, made certain recommendations with regard to the appointment of members to the Witwatersrand Tattersalls early in July 1987. There are seven members on such a Tattersall’s board.

Do they have political powers?

Those members included competent members such as Mr Cecil Long, who rendered excellent service to this country in many fields. Members such as Messrs Parsons and Potgieter have rendered good service for years. Then that hon member recommended that the following three members be appointed in the place of those three members: Mr Fred Rundle, the CP’s candidate in Turffontein, who, of course, lost there; the CP’s candidate in the Ward 47 by-election, who, of course, lost; and the CP’s candidate in the recent municipal election in Hillbrow, where he naturally also lost. He is the chairman of the CP’s divisional executive, or whatever one calls it. He was recommended. He also recommended Mr Engelbrecht, who was the CP’s chief agent in Langlaagte. He also recommended Mr Van Niekerk, who also worked for the CP there. And those three members were then appointed. Why should one come here sanctimoniously and make a great fuss about certain things when one does those things oneself? I merely want to say: I make no apology whatsoever for recommending Nationalists wherever necessary, because they are generally also the more competent people. I naturally do not keep my eyes closed whenever there is another member in a field other than a political field. All I wish to say, however, is that one should not act sanctimoniously when there is no reason to do so.

There is another aspect on which I had thought we should conduct a debate. We can talk about hospital services, health services or education services; we can talk about anything we wish to that is of importance, but when we reflect on them, we must take a serious look at the facts of the matter and at the realities. The hon member for Rust Ter Vaal referred to apartheid. I should like to come to that as well. The first thing I want to say is that we in South Africa are faced with a certain situation: It is generally referred to as being one quarter First World and three quarters Third World—one may call it what one wishes. We are faced with sanctions and boycotts. We are faced with a situation in which we are undergoing extreme financial hardship. We are faced with a situation in which if we are unable to obtain further funds, hospital services, Black education and that sort of thing will in my view lapse into a chaotic state. This has nothing whatsoever to do with apartheid. I just want to tell hon members that I am in favour of doing away with apartheid.

Hear, hear!

Of course! I am striving towards that, as in the case of the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act. The sooner that Act goes, the better, and I shall strive towards that.

What about the Group Areas Act?

The reality of the matter, however, is not that a lot of money is being spent at a certain place for Whites. After all, my Nationalists drive on that same road from Baragwanath to which the hon member referred. Surely it is not a question of a lot of money now being spent on the Whites which has been taken away and ought to be spent on people of colour. Surely that is nonsense; surely it is not true.

Two out of every 40 000 …

If I drive on that toll road of yours, I also have to pay for it. [Interjections.]

It has nothing to do with apartheid. We are striving energetically towards the elimination of apartheid. The sooner we do away with apartheid in this country, the better. However, I think a large number of people have a devil of a shock in store for them the day apartheid no longer exists. The day apartheid no longer exists there will still be no beds in that hospital. In fact, a whole number of beds will stand empty. I can understand hon members of the NP and the CP making representations, the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly appealing for his road in Waterberg, and so on. I do not have a problem with that, but I just want to say that if we do not receive capital from overseas, this will do us no good, for the very simple reason that no Third World country can mobilise enough capital on its own to perform the necessary functions. I agree that a very high priority must, of course, be afforded to Black education, for example. My statement is, and I have said this so many times before, that the White population numbers are levelling off. To put it this way, the White population must keep what it has. It must retain, renew, enhance and expand the standards and other things it has. We must, of course, afford a very high priority to the improvement of services for so-called people of colour. Of course. That is the highest priority, because if we do not succeed in the field of health services, education and community services for people of colour, the population development programme will not succeed either. There will be a population explosion and all that will happen, is that we shall become a banana republic. There is no way in which the Whites alone can stay on top and not sink together with the people of colour. We are all in one country; we are one group of people and one nation in that sense of the word. There is no other way; this is not being done and neither is it the policy of the National Party. We must afford the highest priority to those aspects pertaining to people of colour such as education, and so on, so that we may succeed with the population development programme. That is why I say that it is necessary for us in this country, for both the Whites and the non-Whites, if I must use that terminology, to sit down and reflect very seriously once again on our priorities.

Mr Chairman, the pharmacists come along and say that the State should simply give all its prescriptions to the pharmacists. In the financial year that has just passed, we have already saved R6 million by delegating these services to the district surgeons so that they could dispense medicines. Once this is fully implemented, another R8 million will be added to this during the present year. Then we shall save R14 million per annum simply through the rationalisation of that service. But now a pharmacist approaches me and tells me that we must give the prescriptions to them. With money that would come from where? Furthermore, the hon members have spoken about hospitals. There are 203 unoccupied beds in Leratong. There are 80 empty Black beds at the Hillbrow Hospital, and I could go on in this manner. Hospitals have been built which cannot be run, but this has nothing at all to do with apartheid. There is no money. The hon member for Hercules referred to the fact that taxpayers were paying too much money. Of course. This is a generally acknowledged fact. The Minister of Finance says this as well. People are paying too much tax. I want to repeat, however, that there is no unnecessary expenditure of a lot of money on Whites, White services, White roads and what have you, which can be taken away and given to others. The fact of the matter is that there is not enough money. We, the Whites, Blacks, Labour Party members, Nationalists and CPs, must think very seriously about that fact. It is time we in this country sat down together and very seriously reviewed our priorities. I do not wish to make a political debate of this, but the constitutional solution for this country is obviously central to this matter. If we do not achieve a good dispensation in which everyone, including Blacks, can come out on top in a reasonable manner, we shall not obtain investment from overseas. And then we shall be done for; it is as certain as that.

Order! The hon member is making a very interesting speech, but we must now move a little closer to the Votes.

You should have made your ambulance speech.

You will need an ambulance after the next election. Come and stand in Langlaagte, and I will get you. I cannot repeat the point I wish to make often enough. Should I speak about hospital services, for example, I would repeat everything I have already said. One can do nothing about hospital services if one does not have the necessary money for them. It is as simple as that. We could talk about nature conservation. We could talk about anything that has to do with this province, and I would say respectfully that we must have the money to do it. Unless we undertake a total replanning of our dispensation, and unless we do what is necessary in the constitutional sphere and in all other spheres, we shall be done for. I think it is high time we came right out and said this to one another—I do not wish to speak about my people and your people and his people—I am doing my best in my sphere of influence to do this. I want to say with great warmth and respect to my friends there, to my friend the hon member for Rust Ter Vaal, for example: Please go and tell your people that the day apartheid no longer exists, you will still not have an education and you will still not have a house.

Then they will be admitted to the hospitals.

I cannot see the Group Areas Act existing for ever. I say that one cannot abolish the Group Areas Act now, because then one would have chaos as a result of a totally incorrect distribution.

Order! If the hon member cannot speak about anything else, he should rather end his speech now.

With respect, Mr Chairman, that hon member said that we should abolish the Group Areas Act …

Order! I am not arguing with the hon member now. I am giving a ruling.

Let us come back to the hospitals.

That ambulance has got a flat tyre.

Those hospital beds to which the hon member referred, cannot be provided. The day apartheid no longer exists in any shape or form, he will still not be able to have or make use of that hospital bed if there is no money available for this purpose. [Time expired.]

Business suspended at 12h39 and resumed at 14h15.

Afternoon Sitting

Mr Chairman, I want to wish Mr Fanie Schoeman and Mr Terblanche a fruitful retirement. I was not in the fortunate position of being able to work with them, but they seem to me to be friendly chaps.

My congratulations go to Mr Danie Hough, with whom I have had a longer association, on his appointment as Administrator. We have served together on committees, and I hope that we shall be able to maintain that same working relationship in the future.

Mr Fanie Ferreira, the newly appointed hon MEC, is a stranger to me, but I also wish to congratulate him and I trust that we shall work well together in the future. I find myself in almost the same position as a friend of mine who was travelling by train. He was not sure whether the train would stop at the station of his destination. He asked the ticket examiner whether the train stopped at all the stations. The ticket examiner answered quite cordially: “Now what would you be doing at all the stations?” [Interjections.] I am now going to stop at a number of stations with regard to the appropriation and I trust that by the end of the debate I shall not feel as strange as a pig in Palestine.

The UDP would actually like to move that the appropriation be rejected, but such a motion would be of purely symbolic value, and for that reason I shall not move such a motion.

In my view it is tremendously worrying to note the trend that certain matters which belong in the sphere of the Provincial Administration are now being transferred as own affairs to the Administration: House of Assembly. I consider this a very sad day indeed. In my view—we interpret it in this fashion despite what the hon member for Langlaagte has said—it is nothing other than a surreptitious method of perpetuating discrimination and of granting further benefits to a privileged class of persons.

What is more, I am afraid that in due course the province will be saddled with the administration of matters of little or no substance. Worse still, those matters which have to do with human relations and mutual understanding will then be entirely outside the province’s area of jurisdiction. I want to appeal to the province that for these reasons it will guard jealously the transfer of functions from the provinces to the own affairs departments.

Which matters have been transferred as own affairs to the Administration: House of Assembly? There must be no illusions about this. These are matters which very closely affect all the population groups.

The first is hospital services. On 1 April 1989 various hospitals were transferred to the Administration: House of Assembly as own affairs. It is said that the provision of beds for other races will not be affected by this. The question is, however, how other races are going to obtain a say with regard to the rendering of an efficient service and the improvement thereof.

The UDP believes that hospital services should quite simply be rendered to patients and that they should not be separated on a racial basis.

I want to suggest to the hon MEC in charge of hospital services that he and his staff should one day pay an incognito visit to the hospitals, and particularly to those which make provision for all races, in order to determine precisely what is going on there. I wish to illustrate why I say this by way of three contrasting examples.

In 1986 I myself was involved in a motor car accident just past Jan Smuts Airport. I was unable to do anything, and a German picked up my son and myself. My son had, in fact, driven the car. We were taken by the German to Kempton Park Hospital. The matron and doctors on duty did not hesitate. They first treated my son, who was suffering from shock, and then they treated me, and admitted me to the White hospital. This impressed me and made me realise that things can still happen in this country for the sake of a patient.

Because it was a long way from Reigerpark where I live, I was subsequently transferred to the Boksburg-Benoni Hospital, and there I was also admitted to the White section of the hospital and received the best treatment.

In 1987 a friend of mine, who is present here today, and I were involved in a gruesome car accident in the Eastern Transvaal due to heavy traffic on the through roads. [Interjections.]

Yes, perhaps I am accident-prone, but I am lucky because I always come through.

Be that as it may, we ended up in Waterval Boven Hospital. Unfortunately they did not have the facilities to have x-ray photos taken and so on, but the nursing staff received us in a friendly manner on the White side, and they cleaned us up, washed us and allowed us to stay there until our transport arrived and we were referred to the Nelspruit Hospital.

When we arrived at Nelspruit on Saturday morning, our problems began. We arrived at the unfamiliar hospital and reported to the White section. The clerk was in the process of making the entry in the register when a security guard came along and told the clerk: “No, Sir, Blacks are not allowed here; they must get out.” “Where must we go now,” we asked. He told us and gestured to us that we had to go down the passage. We subsequently walked down the passage and arrived at the so-called non-White section where we were to be treated.

The matron or head nurse on that side said that there were no x-ray facilities on that side and that we should go back to where we had come from. We subsequently went back and when we arrived there, they sent us back again. When we eventually arrived there again, the head nurse told us that we would have to wait until six o’clock because the doctor was still busy in the White section of the hospital.

I told her that would be the day when we would sit there from nine o’clock to six o’clock. In view of all the quarrelling—one becomes annoyed when something like this happens to one, because one is full of pain and one wants someone to look at how badly one is injured—they went to call the doctor, but in the process I used a good Afrikaans idiom.

Someone asked me how things were going, and I said that we were being treated very badly (kaffersleg). The Black nurse interpreted this differently and the doctor came in. He simply grabbed me by the chest and said: “Do not come and tell my nurses that they are kaffirs.” I asked him how he knew what I had said and why he did not go back to the White section. I also asked him who he was. He told me that he was doing me a favour in treating me in the hospital. I told him he could keep his favour, and with that I walked out and went to a private physician.

The Provincial Administration must under no circumstances transfer hospitals and other health services to the Administration: House of Representatives. They must remain with the provinces. I say this because we do not want them because they are an abomination. At present they are being well administered; we must simply ensure that we obtain a greater say with regard to the administration of such hospitals.

The second matter that has been transferred to the Administration: House of Assembly as an own affair, is that of holiday and other resorts.

The resorts which are run by Overvaal Resorts are among the best. Blyde River and others cannot be recreated. These resorts were originally established by way of an appropriation of funds from the province. These resorts have thus far been inaccessible to us.

Whilst dealing with this appropriation we have been able to address this matter and make certain contributions so that those facilities may also be made accessible to us. This is now taboo because last year the Overvaal resorts were transferred as an own affair to the Administration: House of Assembly whilst we still do not enjoy any facilities at Warmbad or Badplaas where the warm water springs are situated. On the contrary, it appears to me that the investigations that have been ordered in this regard have produced nothing. After all, one cannot duplicate a hot water spring; that is why facilities must be created there for the people who live in the province.

Local government was transferred to the Minister of Local Government and Housing in the Administration: House of Assembly with effect from 1 April 1989. As far as we are concerned, this represents yet another dilemma. Who can we now turn to with regard to unseemly behaviour on the part of certain local authorities, which is leading to the maladministration of certain towns by them? I trust, however, that the hon the Minister of Local Government and Housing will avail himself of the opportunity to clamp down on the CP councils, which are humiliating us by reinstating apartheid, and that he will create communication links between reluctant councils and management committees. Mr Chairman, it is no good the Government telling us that they are going to do something in regard to the goings-on in our towns. We want to see something being done and the hon the Minister has the opportunity of doing this. I am pleased that the LP did not accept the transfer of these powers. It is most regrettable, however, that they did not make a single attempt to bring about the unification of town councils and management committees. On the contrary, they keep tinkering with the extension of powers for management committees and they are preoccupied with the short-term objectives which are being attained as opposed to the long-term objectives which must be achieved. The fact is that the short term is being concentrated on at present whilst the long-term objectives are being lost sight of entirely. On the one hand the UDP wants to suggest that the Administration give priority, with the concept of regional services councils as a basis, to launching a campaign for members of management committees and town councils to sit together in order to take decisions in the interests of the town in which they live and all its inhabitants. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I just want to tell the hon member for Reigerpark that he must be careful, because the third accident may perhaps be the last.

Firstly I wish to thank the hon the Administrator for the very pleasant lunch and for his thoughtfulness. The CP enjoyed it very much. Thank you very much for that.

I want to tell the hon MEC Mr Fanie Schoeman, who is now retiring, that we have known one another for many years. We have farms which are virtually adjacent to one another. I want to thank him very much for the wonderful things he has done over the years. We have differed from one another politically, but we have always been able to solve any problems. I wish him every success in the position he is going to. Mr Terblanche, you probably thought that today was the end of Coetzee, that you would never hear from him again. We are still going to cross swords with one another a little today. When you retire, enjoy your retirement and do everything you wanted to do when you worked for the province.

Mr Chairman, I should like to begin with a few thoughts regarding some minor matters which are causing inconvenience in my constituency. I shall then go a little further, but for the sake of clarity I should first like to deal with two other matters before I come to that. When I look at the budget as a whole, I come to the conclusion that the total growth in the budget is 3,4% and that this budget is not keeping pace with the inflation rate in South Africa. In other words, the Government is marking time. It is going backwards, therefore, and will never again be able to make up the backlog. Its chances of doing so are zero.

I wish to ask a question with reference to a report which appeared in Finansies en Tegniek of 24 March 1989 under the heading: “Dienstegeld kan boikot in Soweto breek”. It reads, inter alia, as follows:

My question, Mr Chairman, is where does the appropriation reflect this loss of R8 million per month, and has the time not come for something more positive to be done with regard to this state of affairs? Is it going to continue indefinitely? These people will have to pay their own costs some or other time.

The hon MEC in charge of Local Government, Mr Olaus van Zyl, has assured us that attention is being paid to this matter, and he intimated during the meeting of the joint committee yesterday that there could perhaps be a solution in store. I hope his solution is not the same as that of the Minister of Transport, who wrote off a loss of R3,119 billion on foreign loans. Then all the other population groups would queue up to have their water and electricity accounts written off.

To come back to Vote 6, I wish to express my disappointment at the fact that in actual fact, very little in additional funding than last year has been made available for roads and related matters. I wish to refer to a road which was already supposed to have been built, namely Road P237/1 between Groblersdal and Bronkhorstspruit, not the existing road, but another, new road. Further to inquiries by the chairman of the action committee of Groblersdal, which is representative of all churches, political parties and farmers’ associations, in other words, of all the voters of Groblersdal, I personally made enquiries last year with regard to the aforementioned road. After a year I succeeded in receiving a reply from the Director-General of the Department of Development Aid. He furnished me with the following brief reply on 2 February 1989:

This is very interesting, Mr Chairman. The very next day, the hon the Minister of Education and Development Aid wrote a substantial letter to the chairman of the South Eastern Transvaal Regional Development Association with reference to so-called enquiries which had been addressed to the hon the Minister on 26 September 1988. Take note, nearly six months later, they woke up insofar as road P237/1 was concerned and acknowledged that the Cabinet had already decided on 14 June 1983 that the road should be built and that the costs should be regarded as part of the consolidation costs.

Mr Chairman, this was a blatant election gimmick, because the referendum took place in November of that year and a by-election simultaneously took place in the constituency of Middelburg-Groblersdal for a provincial councillor in the place of two provincial councillors who had been stricken from the attorneys’ roll. It was political corruption, for which the NP is now well-known. [Interjections.]

I find it totally unacceptable that the Cabinet should have decided as long ago as 14 June 1983 that the road should be built and that the costs should be regarded as part of the consolidation costs, and that the matter was without further ado tossed into the hands of the Provincial Administration of the Transvaal. That is very, very unreasonable.

The Transvaal Roads Department has already completed the planning of the new road with funds obtained from the State. The construction of the first six kilometres, which involved the upgrading and realignment of the existing road, was completed as early as March 1987 by the province’s roads department. The special funds which the Department of Finance made available to the province for this purpose via the Department of Constitutional Development and Planning for the 1986-87 financial year, were used. However, now they are sitting back and waiting for additional funds to be allocated especially for this purpose. As far as the province is concerned, the road is not on any priority planning list. In view of this the position is, therefore, that during the consolidation investigations, the residents were assured by the Government that the road would be built. A telegram from the Minister was even received to confirm this. This telegram was placed in Groblersdal’s newspaper on 16 September 1983, just before the referendum and the election. [Interjections.] Owing to interdepartmental arrangements, the funds are no longer available. The calculated costs of R20 million have already risen to R45 million. Mr Terblanche recently estimated the costs at R54 million.

Therefore, it is the residents who now have to bear the brunt of this as a result of a promise by the Government that has not been kept. [Interjections.] I think that hon member should rather go to Windmill Park and put his affairs in order there. I wish to assure you that the use of the road has now become very dangerous. No women or children dare use the road without being accompanied by a male person, and even then it is dangerous. This applies to all population groups. The people of Lebowa also use other routes at a tremendously high cost. After sundown, it is worse. I see that the hon nominated member from the Marble Hall area agrees with me. He knows that road. This position can definitely not persist. I want to request very seriously that the matter be referred to the Cabinet once again and that the funds for this should definitely be provided in the 1989-90 appropriation year.

I should not like to cross swords with the hon the Administrator of the Transvaal, but further to a question which was put to him with regard to Overvaal holiday resorts during yesterday’s meeting of the Joint Committee on Provincial Affairs: Transvaal, I wish to draw his attention to the fact that the own affairs Minister of the Budget and Works has confirmed in Parliament that all Overvaal holiday resorts are own affairs matters, and are therefore reserved exclusively for Whites. The hon the Administrator should keep it up; the CP is squarely behind him.

Twenty-nine years ago, a certain Mr and Mrs Varaday established a sanctuary for cheetahs, which are a threatened species, adjacent to the Loskop Dam and they ultimately succeeded in breeding and keeping cheetahs in captivity. [Interjections.] As far as I know, this was the first place in South Africa, although the second in the world, where success had been achieved in breeding cheetahs in captivity. The other country is Italy. [Interjections.] It is a Nat like you who is running away. Despite the protection of a fence, a child was injured there last year and Mr Varaday has been prohibited from allowing further visitors there. Last week, a child in the town of Middelburg was literally torn to pieces through the fence by a neighbour’s dog, because the child had teased the dog with a stick. An incident similar to the one which took place at Mr Varaday’s resort, can therefore take place anywhere. Mr Varaday had to comply with certain safety measures, which he has, in fact, since done. I believe his application first had to be dealt with by the nature conservation division at Marble Hall, whereafter it was sent to Ermelo, then to Nelspruit, whereafter it apparently eventually arrived in Pretoria. Last year I spoke to the Deputy Director, Mr Lambrecht, personally and he led me to believe that everything was in order and that Mr Varaday would receive his permit within the next week or two. He is still waiting. I need not tell you that literally hundreds of visitors, including both local and foreign visitors, are having to be turned away every day. This person is dependent on donations in order to feed the cheetahs. He has already been compelled to sell some of these threatened cheetahs in order to carry on. Does this department now wish to tell me that they are unaware of the thousands of signatures that were sent to the Department of Nature Conservation as early as last year, petitioning for the opening of this cheetah sanctuary? Can this red tape not be eliminated? South Africa is being deprived of one of its best tourist attractions in the South-Eastern Transvaal. Can immediate action not be taken? Can something not perhaps be done so that Mr Varaday may receive visitors there before the coming weekend? Hon members have all the documents in their hands. I wish to express the hope that this will happen.

When we look at the negative appropriation in relation to roads in South Africa and in the Transvaal in particular, perhaps the time has come for us to consider another aspect of our roads in an effort to eliminate the slaughter on our roads. Serious consideration must be given to the safety of our road systems in order to make them safer for the road user by way of the widening of blind rises and the elimination of danger areas on our roads. Serious consideration must also be given once again to the speed restrictions on our roads, and I wish to suggest a general lowering of speed limits and better law enforcement on our roads. I believe hon members are thinking of the longer periods of time which we shall spend on our roads, but a life is worth far more than time. In any event, it will bring about a tremendous saving for the motorist if he adheres to the speed restrictions, in view of our very high fuel prices. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Middelburg certainly covered a very broad spectrum, and it is not going to be possible for me in this short time to react to everything he said, but in talking about Soweto and rentals, he proved that he had definitely lagged very far behind and was not aware of the enormous increase in the ratio for the collecting of rent. He also complained about the unevenness of roads, but I can assure you that the CP is going to experience the same problem with a very uneven road that lies ahead for that party. I do not know whether they have worked out the comparison between the roads and the tortoises as yet. This SKDB—“skop-skiet-donder-en-bliksem”—party will inevitably be confronted by that problem. The hon member also spoke about the cheetah farm. My information may not be sufficient, but as a result of negotiations that took place there, I do not think this matter is really relevant any more. I should like to hear what the hon MEC has to say about the matter.

†The population of South Africa is at present increasing at an average rate of 2,3% per annum. Should this growth rate continue, it would mean that the present population of 28 million people will increase to 47 million by the year 2000, and to more or less 80 million by the year 2020. If the population keeps growing at the present rate, the provision of services, inter alia health services, would simply be beyond the means of our country. [Interjections.]

*I see that the hon member for Klipspruit West made a very powerful contribution with regard to the population explosion. I think he will come back to it later and make a continued contribution.

†Estimates indicate that the total health expenditure, as a proportion of total expenditure, increased from 5% during the 1975-76 estimates to 10% in the present financial year. In 1985-86 the total health expenditure by all sectors in this country was approximately R7,5 billion, whereas in the present year it is R9 billion. Of this R9 billion, the State contributed R5 billion. One thing is certain, and that is that the need for health care can never be entirely satisfied. There will always be an excess of need above the capacity of the economy to satisfy this need. Globally, first world countries are evaluating the cost benefits of expensive specialized services. The question is: Should one, say, spend an amount of R200 000 on a highly specialized procedure, whereas the same amount spent at primary level could lead to the benefit of hundreds of individuals? Simple arithmetic precludes the possibility of increasing per capita expenditure. Economic imperatives therefore oblige us to look for alternative and more imaginative health care solutions.

With the foregoing in mind, the Government has embarked on a path of increasing partial privatization of health services. For this reason beds in public sector hospitals must in future be made available to the private enterprise. The Government may also contract out work to private agencies or sell certain of its facilities out of hand. It is also now accepted policy that the State will no longer erect or operate new hospitals where the private hospital industry could do the same.

*The construction of hospitals has become an expensive enterprise. The operation of hospitals is even more expensive, however, if one takes into account that the running costs of a hospital are equal to the original construction costs in two and a half years’ time. Consequently it is important that the facilities be used to their optimum. This applies in particular to those hospitals that provide sophisticated treatment and have highly trained staff. The services of such staff should be used for the treatment of more serious cases, and patients with less serious conditions should not be dealt with on this high level at all. In this respect some of our university hospitals in particular come to mind. It is true, however, that in the larger cities more and more patients go to State hospitals for treatment. As a rule hospitals for Blacks are also overcrowded. In view of the restricted funds and manpower, the present demands simply cannot be complied with. It is clear that there will have to be a shift in emphasis in the Government’s health services. Emphasis must be laid on preventive care and treatment within the community rather than on extremely sophisticated treatment. In order to attain this objective, it is important as far as possible not to admit patients who need treatment on a certain level to facilities on that higher level of rendering of service, where it is so much more expensive.

The National Health Services Facility Plan, which was approved in 1980, should now be implemented fully. It makes provision for the use of the correct facilities according to certain illnesses. The emphasis is on clinic services to a greater extent, where the larger number of smaller illnesses can be treated and the treatment is not carried out by highly qualified staff, but by staff who have been trained specifically for that purpose. The primary health care nurse has been trained to diagnose certain illnesses and to issue medicines that have been prepared specifically for that purpose. In this way a large volume of less important work is channelled away from the doctor, enabling him to focus his attention on those cases which are in greater need of his services. Clinics or health centres in communities, where primary health care is provided, play an important part by keeping less serious cases out of hospital. Only those patients who cannot be treated on this level are referred to the hospitals. This happens at the Baragwanath Hospital in particular, where there is a considerable influx of patients. The problem is aggravated by patients who could be treated on a lower level.

In order to combat this problem, the Administration has for some years now been establishing clinics which can admit patients who do not necessarily need hospital treatment. Primary care nurses who have been trained for this purpose examine, diagnose and treat those patients for certain minor ailments. If they feel the patient needs the services of a doctor, he is referred to the doctor. This doctor is at the clinic. The doctor also provides treatment in that health centre and in cases in which the centre is not equipped for certain treatment, or the doctor is not trained to deal with a specific illness, the patient is referred to the hospital. In this way that health centre serves as a filter which lets through only those patients who really need hospital care. Of all the patients who are treated in a community health centre, only 20% are referred to the doctor. It is calculated that more than 90% of the patients who would otherwise be treated in hospitals as outpatients, can be treated by the health centres.

At present there are 12 health centres in Soweto, and despite a lack of funds, there has been considerable progress in the planning of further centres. We hope that ultimately 18 community health centres will have been established in Soweto.

An important development is to ensure that patients do not stay in hospital longer than is necessary. In order to give this the necessary impetus, it is essential to see in future how these matters can be rationalised. I want to make one appeal, however, viz that serious consideration be given to the hours of our health centres and clinics. If we can introduce the necessary reduction in hospital services, and if we can keep the doors of these clinics and health centres open, a great deal can be done to overcome this problem.

Thank you, Mr Chairman, for the fact that I am again being given an opportunity to make a speech. I should like to welcome the new hon Administrator, and I hope we shall all have good co-operation from him in the future. I want to wish those officials who are retiring a good period of rest. I do not know whether they are going to rest or are going to continue working, but we appreciate the service they have furnished to the Transvaal. I should also like to thank the hon the Administrator for the lunch. My tummy is now comfortably full, but that does not mean that I am not going to put up a fight.

I want to know to what extent hospitals are privy to the drawing up of a budget. Do they simply get the money, and must the money then be spent as it is given to them, or do they make any contributions in regard to the budget? I am now referring to Vote 4, Hospital Services, and specifically to subhead H. The hospital has five gates and has approximately three guards during the day and, at times, six guards in the evening. That makes it impossible to safeguard the hospital premises. That is why people’s cars are stolen and the hospital is broken into. I should like the Administration to see whether it cannot increase the amount allocated for this. I think approximately R1,6 million has been allocated. There must be six to nine guards at the hospital during the day.

With reference to subhead D, ie printing and so on, the hospital at Coronationville is getting R46 000. This is a very small amount. I think you will note that in the past they always had money left over under this subhead. The reason for that was that they made use of very poor quality paper. The quality of the printing was also very poor. They tried to work within the estimated amount allocated to them. I also want to ask for an examination of this matter to see whether this money cannot be increased.

From where must we get the money?

Where does the money for the budget come from? You people must waste less money on apartheid. Subhead E deals with the replacement of furniture and equipment. When one goes to hospital, a great deal of the stuff there is in such a broken-down condition that I do not believe there is much hope of repairing it. The beds are broken and the matresses are full of holes. I do not know whether the springs are sticking out, but the stuff is in a pathetic condition. I think the only place it can be sent to is the rubbish-dump or somewhere else.

You people must not jump on the furniture!

What do you mean jump? The stuff is simply too old, almost 50 years old.

I now want to come back to one of last year’s stories when I spoke about a White man who was injured on the train en route to Roodepoort and subsequently died. The hon MEC replied to me, and I quote from Hansard of Tuesday, 24 May, column 11535:

I never said that that man had been turned away from that hospital. I said that it was as a result of apartheid that that man died.

You are wrong.

What do you mean I am wrong? I shall tell you why. That man did not even have a chance. He could not say anything while he was lying there. The people who drove the ambulance decided for him. There was a hospital approximately half a kilometre from where he was injured, but they took him to Roodepoort. Had it not been for apartheid, own hospitals and own this and that, it would perhaps have been possible to save that man’s life.

Earlier the hon member for Langlaagte said, and I quote: “One can do nothing about hospital services if one does not have the necessary money.” Sir, one could do a great deal if one could do away with duplication and all the unutilised beds in hospitals. We must stop paying lip-service. At the opening of this session there were a whole lot of verligte speeches. People were falling over one another, so much so that one thought that when one woke the next morning, all apartheid would have been eliminated, but from then until now—and with what has happened today—one can see that the NP is much worse than the CP, because the CP members are actually their offspring; they gave birth to the CP. I cannot see how the CP must change if they themselves cannot change.

In my constituency, for example, I serve on the board of the Coronation Hospital. Two kilometres away from me there is the J G Strijdom Hospital. In 1987-88 the J G Strijdom Hospital was apparently only utilised to a capacity of 55,7%, whilst the Coronation Hospital was utilised to a capacity of 89,8%. I do not think the figures for the Johannesburg Hospital are correct, because that hospital has approximately 2 000 beds, of which 833 are apparently utilised.

Those figures are incorrect.

That is why I say that I do not agree with the figures.

I want to put a question to those who speak too glibly about apartheid and who want apartheid, own facilities and an own this and that. Why do they not take all the patients of the J G Strijdom Hospital, which is so completely underutilised, and send them to the Johannesburg Hospital where there are quite a few empty beds? There will always still be beds left unutilised. We, with our over-utilised hospital, could then make use of the J G Strijdom Hospital. We would not close the hospital to Whites. Those who wanted to be treated there, could always still be treated there.

There is no money available to open new beds, whether they are for Blacks or Whites.

There is no money because you people spend too much money on unnecessary stuff, because you people have used too much of the taxpayer’s money for the purposes of duplication and have wasted money. That is why there is not enough money. You are still doing that. [Interjections.]

Order! Hon members will be given an opportunity. The hon member may proceed.

As far as the administrative structure of hospitals is concerned—and here I am specifically referring to the Coronation Hospital—I want to point out that the superintendent of the hospital holds the post of chief clerk instead of as superintendent, because there is no middle management in the hospital. There are people who have been working at the hospital as clerks for more than 30 years. They began there as clerks, they are still clerks and they will die as clerks when they have gone off on pension. Our hospital has become a training ground for the business world. The hospital employs school-leavers who are starting work for the first time, but because there are no promotional possibilities for our people in the hospital, they resign for better jobs in the business world. Some of them have already become managers of shops. I would therefore suggest that this administrative structure be examined. More posts should be created within the hospital and people should be trained to fill them so that we can employ the money which we speak so much about, and which we waste so recklessly, to promote the people who are trained in our hospitals instead of having the training they receive in the hospitals utilised by the business world.

We have a major problem with accommodation at the hospital. I am sorry to have to say that one’s human dignity is encroached upon whenever one walks into the Coronation Hospital. I think the SPCA’s premises are cleaner and more hygienic than that hospital. That hospital is dirty, Sir. It is pathetic. Within three or four years that hospital will be 50 years old.

The hon member serves on the hospital board, does he not?

I serve on the hospital board, but it is not my job to clean the hospital.

Why does the hon member not see to it?

Why must I see to it? You people do not want to provide the money with which to do so. If you people were to provide the money, the place would be looked after.

Cleaning does not take money.

What makes the hon member think that? What makes him think that?

Try a broom!

That hon member, who is so verlig, should come and help with the sweeping.

Sir, the over-utilisation of the hospital makes it completely impossible for the hospital staff to give any real attention to the space between the beds in the hospital. The hospital has, in effect, become a “service product” instead of a place where one can recuperate. It is like a workshop; one must simply push production. That is all one can do. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I listened with great interest to the speech made by the hon the Administrator this morning, and we wish him well.

I must say that I was impressed when I telephoned him last year and asked him to intervene after the authorities in Soweto had cut off the electricity. It was in the dead of winter during one of the coldest spells that we were having, and the hon the Administrator intervened immediately and the electricity was restored. I was indeed much impressed with the manner in which he responded to this appeal, and I hope that he will have the health and strength to deal with what I perceive to be some well nigh insuperable problems. These problems are largely, I may add, of the Government’s own making as a result of its stubborn refusal for more than three decades to accept the inevitable process of urbanization of Black people on a permanent basis. This acceptance came in principle in 1982 with the passing of the Black Local Authorities Act. Unfortunately, as we now know, that act was undermined ab initio by the Government presenting this piece of legislation as a substitute for a general franchise for Blacks in the central Government. Other reasons were the omission of proper funding for the Black local authorities, the delay in granting first the 99-year leasehold, and then the right of freehold, only two years ago. Of course the repeal of the pass laws and influx control signified the change in policy and took place in 1986. However, all those years of refusal to accept the urbanization of Blacks resulted in an acute shortage of housing in the urban areas. Today it is estimated that there is a shortage of some 300 000 units on the Witwatersrand alone, with the consequent proliferation of squatter camps around every metropolitan area now “accommodating”—and I use that in inverted commas—between one and a half to two and a half million people on the Witwatersrand alone. Between one and a half and two and a half million people are living in squatter camps on the Witwatersrand alone.

These are the major, very difficult problems confronting the Administrator, his Executive Committee, and his staff: Housing and the squatter situation. We shall be dealing with those in more detail later. One of my colleagues from Johannesburg North will be dealing with housing, and I hope to have an opportunity to talk on the subject of squatters tomorrow. In the meantime I wish I could say that I share the optimism expressed in the hon the Administrator’s speech of this morning, and the complacency which he voiced regarding Black participation in last year’s local government elections. It is a sentiment obviously shared by the hon MEC, Mr Olaus van Zyl, in his report. Both these gentlemen interpret the increased poll in the elections as an indication that Blacks now accept Black local authorities as the legitimate democratic institutions which will satisfy their political aspirations. I want to state unequivocally that nothing is further from the truth. Black political aspirations still aim at direct participation in the central Government. It is not true to say, as the hon the Administrator said this morning, that—

That is just not true. What is true is that there has been a rethink among the Black civic groups and among Blacks generally on the issue of participation in local government elections. However, the objective is take-over. The objective is not co-operation. We delude ourselves if we do not understand this. Moreover, the reference to the figure of an increased average percentage poll of 22% in the Transvaal is not a true reflection of the political climate in the large townships, where most of the people live. In Soweto, in the PWV, the percentage poll was only 11,4%, and in Diepmeadow, a part of greater Soweto, it was only 10,5%. If we use as a base the eligible number of people who could have voted, and not the number of registered voters—which is what the figure of 22% overall in the Transvaal represents—the Soweto poll is actually diminished to 5,8% and the Diepmeadow poll to 2,6%.

So as I have said, it is not a reflection of joyous participation in local government elections. We must remember, as some wag once said, that statistics are very deceiving and that, like a bikini, they both reveal and conceal. The figures, as I say, are very different depending on the base that you use.

I would also like to ask the hon the Administrator and the hon MEC if they really believe that the local government elections were such a great reflection of satisfaction with local government authorities and that one therefore can presume that the townships are in a state of normality. Why do they then not recommend to the Government that the state of emergency, which is now in its third year, be lifted? Quite obviously, if everything is calm in the townships, and the local government elections have proved that the Blacks now accept their legitimacy, why do they not recommend to the Government that the state of emergency be lifted?

I want to utter another warning which I believe also emanates from the hon the Administrator’s speech this morning. He mentioned in a paragraph the intention to urge Black local authorities to increase their rental and service fees and to attempt to recover the arrears which in Greater Soweto alone amount to over R428 million. I want to remind the hon the Administrator that the unrest which began in September 1984 in Sebokeng started as a result of rent and services increases. Those charges were increased and there was immediate unrest. That unrest proliferated and spread to the other townships. It is absolutely crazy to suggest an increase in rent and service charges at a time when there is rising unemployment in the Black townships. Instead of having three members of a family who are employed, you are now lucky if you find one member of a family being employed. To recommend a rise in rents and services at this stage is, I believe, really asking for trouble. It will only increase the tension and I would also say that it will increase the resolve to continue the rent boycott, although it is declining at present. Do not start it up again by increasing rents and services. It led us to the first declaration of the state of emergency and it can only mean the continuation of a further state of emergency.

Both the hon the Administrator and the hon MEC, Mr van Zyl, in his report, are absolutely correct in saying that the economic base of the Black local authorities is a matter of serious concern. As I have said, that was due to the fact that when the Black Local Authorities Act was passed in 1982, no proper provision for finance was made, and to use the hon the Administrator’s somewhat curious phrase, he said that we will come to a stage where we cannot afford what he called “the luxury of essential services”. To my mind that is surely a contradiction in terms. Essential services are not a luxury. We have got to have essential services. I believe there is little scope for finding additional sources of revenue for the Black local authorities from within the townships. I think the suggestions made later in the hon the Administrator’s report, on page 19, are far more likely to have the desired effect of avoiding deficits and keeping tension down, than by raising rents and services. That is, external financial assistance, something of the kind that the Johannesburg City Council used to give to Soweto, with a direct subsidy of about £2 million every year. That obviously took note of the fact that most of the consumer power of the Black townships was in fact used in Johannesburg proper, and therefore contributed to the wealth of the city, and they deserved to get something back out of that. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I also wish to join those hon members who have extended their good wishes to the hon the Administrator and to those hon members leaving the Administration, as well as the hon member joining the Provincial Administration.

I realize that a number of hon members have taken up the budget issue and all I have come to realize after every one of them has addressed the gathering is the fact that the Provincial Administration will never ever have sufficient funds in order to provide necessary services as they would like to do. One has to look very closely at what is the cause of this position in which the administration has been placed, where they can never have sufficient funds. I keep on going over this and I come to one conclusion. It has rightfully been pointed out that it is the separation of races which has caused the situation.

But the Whites are paying all the personal tax.

Mr Chairman, I do not even want to react to that one, but I want to remind the hon member that I am not here on a confrontation basis. I will, however, answer him by saying that 90% of the land is owned by the Whites. Please pay for it. Do not make that mistake.

When one looks at a situation where one is talking about local government—own affairs—I want to categorically say that insofar as both our Ministers in the Houses of Delegates and Representatives are concerned, we stand by them in saying that local government can and will never be a viable proposition, given the local government set-up. One has to look at the situation to see where this position emanated from. Let us take an Indian area and the Group Areas Act as an example. Let us take Actonville, where I come from. Here I must say that the Benoni Town Council is a very sympathetic council. That area has a population of approximately 30 000 souls pressed into an area which should, under normal White circumstances, be good for about 15 000 people. Now, when one looks at that and says it is an own affairs area, it is primarily an extension of what we call the apartheid situation.

One has to look at the situation in Boksburg today, where the so-called civilized people have absolutely wrecked the goodwill and the racial harmony there. These are aspects one must take into consideration when asking: Are we God-fearing people, are we preaching Christianity, are we preaching the Bible, are we preaching righteousness? No, all we are preaching is the good for ourselves. In this respect I wish to state categorically that the White community has been absolutely and totally selfish in their undertaking.

I come to the situation of the regional services councils. I was given the impression, and I still believe I am under that impression, that they were primarily given birth to assist those underdeveloped and undeveloped areas. When one looks at, say, the Actonville set-up, one sees there is no contribution to that area whatsoever in terms of what I see before me here.

What about Villa Lisa?

I am referring to Actonville. I believe Actonville starts with the letter A and Villa Lisa starts with the letter V. That should indicate the difference to you.

You yourself said that there is no more space available in Actonville.

There is a distribution here of R85 million towards White upgrading from the regional services council in comparison to R13 million and R7 million in respect of the Coloured and Indian communities respectively.

Where is the need the greatest?

I am not being racist; I am questioning the principle. Where is the balance in that situation? This I want to leave for the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee, so that they will do a bit of soul-searching together with those people who are in power, irrespective of the Conservative Party’s negative approach.

When one takes the reality into account, one finds that we as human beings are totally responsible for the position in which we are placed.

When we turn around, we say to ourselves that it is fine, that the community comes from that end of the world; irrespective of the distance they have to travel to work or the distance they have to travel to get whatever essential services there are, purely because they might be other than White. The situation in 1989 is obviously untenable. I want to say to hon members that it is about time that we take into consideration, and very seriously, that we have people who are participating within the system at very great pain. You are going to lose all those people very soon and find that you will then be starting to deal with people who are not interested in talking. I am only stating a fact. I do not believe that my upbringing gives me the right to threaten like the Nationalist Government has done to us with the group areas and various aspects. I also at the same time want to concede that this Government has given thought and has taken the progressive way and is now going in the direction in which they want to bring about certain realization. But, Sir, you are taking too long. You are not doing what you rightfully should be doing.

To come back to the budget: As I stated earlier, the Provincial Administration will never find sufficient funds to provide the services as they would like to, or in the manner they would love to do. There is only one solution, and that solution is to close eyes and scrap all those discriminatory makings. Open up every provincial hospital, open up every library, stop duplicating and I think you have found your answer. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, unless I have an opportunity to speak again tomorrow, this is more or less my swan song in this arena.

Last performance.

Perhaps it is the penultimate one; I hope so. I should like to express my thanks and appreciation to those hon members who have consistently had kind words to say about me and who have wished me well today. I should like to assure you that I sincerely appreciate this and thank you for it. In particular I just want to refer to my friend, the hon member for Nigel. I also want to tell him that I gratefully accept the first part of his good wishes. As far as the second part is concerned, I do not know whether his political petticoat was sticking out slightly. He alleged that I was the only good MEC. Let me tell the hon member that I see this as a last-ditch attempt to sow dissension between me and my good colleagues. But he will not manage to do so because of the fact that in essence all my colleagues are better people than I am.

Because things have perhaps gone a little quickly here this morning, any person who took the trouble to quietly reread the outline given here by the Administrator this morning would not be able to get away from the fact reflected in it, and that is that in spite of possibilities for criticism, and the fact that one does not, in effect, have all the funds one would have liked, the picture that emerges from the facts supplied involuntarily leaves one no option but to conclude that the provincial administrations, and specifically the Transvaal Provincial Administration, are at present probably the major developmental organisation in the country. I seriously want to ask every hon member—in spite of political preconceptions—to re-examine this matter in depth. I think this would lead everyone—regardless of his political ties—to realise that here, in fact, a tremendous amount of good is being done for our people in this country.

The hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly expressed his dissatisfaction at the appointment of members to specific boards. The province appoints members to various boards, inter alia hospital boards, roads boards, licensing boards, Tattersalls committees, etc. There is not always a totally uniform implementational policy for the various branches, because this is relatively difficult to achieve in practice. I want to make a few general statements however. I do not want to refer to specific cases. One is that we do not, in fact, only appoint NP members. On more than one occasion I have been in a bit of hot water for having appointed not only Nationalists, but also, amongst others, strong CP members.

That is a big mistake.

Yes, that is our problem. Whatever one does, someone says one is doing wrong. I am, however, giving you some general information. The second point I want to emphasise is that as vacancies occur, we also have to appoint representatives of the other population groups to these boards. We have done so in the past, we are doing so at present and in the future we shall increasingly have to make provision for that. You can understand that for us this creates another situation that must also be accommodated. I should also, however, like to tell the members of the other two Houses, excluding the House of Assembly, that when they have been asked for recommendations—generally speaking, since this does not apply to every individual either—the response has frequently been a little disappointing. Frequently we get submissions, with reference to the recommendations that were made, in which it is indicated that the hon member X, the representative of the House of Representatives or the House of Delegates, has not contacted us. Hon members must also understand that as far as possible we, as MECs, deal with the enquiries ourselves, but we also have a great deal of other work. We cannot repeatedly write to hon members reminding them that they must please react.

You do not write yourself. You have a secretary.

No, I write myself. I just want to refer once more to the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition and say that when we have received recommendations from CP members of Parliament, the recommendations have not always been “kosher” either. Although it is not a fixed rule, but particularly in the next few months in which roads boards and licensing boards have to be reappointed in toto, we maintain a policy of reappointing existing, serving members, unless they are not available again. We do not enquire into their political ties. We have sent out a circular asking for an indication of where vacancies exist. But what has our past experience been? When he was still a member of the Provincial Council, the hon member for Nigel and I also crossed swords on that issue. Frequently—and again this does not apply to every member of Parliament—serving members are not recommended. People apparently are being recommended—this became apparent when enquiries were made—merely because they are members of a specific political party. You will therefore understand that it is a difficult situation, but under the circumstances we try to do a good job.

There is something else I want to say: I do not want to involve myself in political arguments, but I do want to state a further fact. From my personal experience of the regional services council concept in the past few months, a very clear indication has manifested itself. In regional services councils, particularly when it comes to the designation and election of executive committees, where the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition’s party members are in the minority, they are disposed towards a compromise. Where they are in the majority, however, generally speaking they are inflexible. I can indicate to you several regional services councils where they have been inflexible in their attitude of wanting to designate no one other than members of the CP to an executive committee of as many as six members.

The hon member for Waterberg referred to Road 869 traversing Bophuthatswana for approximately 12 kilometres in the North-Western Transvaal. Urgent representations have been made by the local farming community to have the portion of the road inside Bophuthatswana, which is apparently in a terrible condition, upgraded and reconstructed. The fact of the matter is that the Transvaal Provincial Administration has no authority inside Bophuthatswana. The facts given to me—that was before I was involved in roads—indicate that approximately eight years ago major safety problems were encountered on this road. Urgent representations were then made to the Minister for an alternate route, and that was subsequently constructed.

Now there have been representations to make the original road negotiable once more. The fact is, however, that it is outside our area of jurisdiction. We have been informed, however, that the Bophuthatswana government has already appointed consulting engineers to plan this road, apparently with a view to tarring it. Our Executive Director and consulting engineers who were appointed to plan our portion of the road are in contact with Bophuthatswana’s consulting engineers. I am not saying, however, that if the road in Bophuthatswana were tarred, our portion would automatically be tarred too. Our portions of the dirt road are actually in a very good condition at the moment. My question is simply: If that road were reconstructed or tarred, what would happen in future about the problem that occurred a few years ago? Again it is not an easy matter to simply deal with off the cuff.

The hon member for Brentwood made certain remarks in regard to the PWV planning in the Pretoria-Witwatersrand area, with specific reference to PWV 15. The hon member’s first questions concerned the issue of control, sub-leasing, leasing tariffs, etc, in regard to the reserve areas already declared for future road construction. By way of an interjection I asked the hon member whether there were any specific problems. Apparently the hon member is not aware of any specific problems, but suspects that all is not as it should be. According to our information this whole matter in regard to all properties belonging to the province is under the control of our Works Directorate. If the hon member could specifically indicate what properties he was referring to, however, I would request the Director of Works to give special attention to this to see whether there is any cause for concern.

The hon member wanted to know whether it would be at all possible to implement the PWV scheme in the future. The future alone will provide the answer. We cannot escape the fact—this has been proved over and over again—that with town planning, urbanisation, high-density living, development, etc, we have a responsibility and must keep routes for future roads open. But specifically in the Boksburg area we have held in-depth discussions with the town council at local level and eliminated existing obstacles. We shall continue to do so in the future.

The hon member for Middelburg earnestly referred to the question of the road between Groblersdal and Bronkhorstspruit. I think the hon member gave the full facts, but he also gave the full answers. Regardless of what has been said in the past, the fact is that now the road would cost approximately R50 million, and I want to emphasise that the funds available to the province do not allow us to construct the alternate route now. I want to say this without beating about the bush. I can make no promises. That road does not appear on our five-year programme. We cannot foresee the province trying to construct that road out of its normal funds unless additional separate funding becomes available for this purpose. The hon member did, in fact, indicate that it was probably a matter that would have to be settled at Cabinet level. My suggestion is therefore that it is the hon member’s responsibility to follow the correct channels and to approach the Cabinet in this regard. As far as the province is concerned, it is simply not possible.

Nor do I want to neglect to refer the hon member to the problem I discussed earlier in connection with Bophuthatswana. That is a smaller problem, but the principle is the same. Eight years ago there was a call for an alternate route that did not traverse a national state, and now there is a call for a road that does traverse the state.

The hon member referred to certain problems involving Mr Varaday’s game-farm conservation area for cheetahs. I am sorry to have to say it, but this matter involving Mr Varaday is almost like a Springbok Radio serial. Whether it is quite as serious as the hon member has indicated—I am not alleging that he has furnished incorrect facts—I do not know. I do not know whether the facts given to him are quite correct and whether all that running around had to be done. As far as my knowledge goes Mr Varaday has been in direct contact with the Director of Nature Conservation throughout. The facts I have at my disposal are of two kinds. Firstly Mr Varaday obtained a temporary permit to keep cheetahs until he complied with the minimum requirements laid down. As soon as he does so, he can ask the Director of Nature Conservation to inspect his premises and then such an inspection will be carried out. According to my information the Nature Conservation Division has not heard a word from Mr Varaday except by way of newspaper reports, etc.

Secondly I have been informed—I do not want to state this as a fact—that Mr Varaday has sold all his cheetahs. If that is incorrect, I accept it as such. The fact is, however, that Mr Varaday has to meet the minimum requirements laid down, and once he has done that, he can ask for an inspection, which will then be carried out. The example the hon member quoted of dogs and cheetahs does not quite hold water. The fact is that a dog is inherently a tame domestic animal; a cheetah is inherently a wild animal. That is why there are different requirements. None of us keeps cheetahs in the backyard, but we all keep dogs in our backyards. [Interjections.]

I want to tell the hon member that I have already requested the Executive Director, who is responsible for nature conservation, to arrange a meeting in my office on Monday, 10 April, at 14h30, and the hon member is welcome to invite Mr Varaday to be present at the meeting so that we can settle this matter once and for all. I would appreciate it if the hon member would notify my office before Monday morning as to whether Mr Varaday will be making his appearance or not.

That is the tiger in the CP’s tank.

The hon member for Nigel spoke about toll roads and tollgates and referred to the possibility of a tollgate on the Heidelberg-Durban road in the vicinity of Heidelberg. The fact of the matter is that tollgates are the responsibility of National Transport and not of the province. The hon member warned that if a tollgate were erected, the alternate route would not be able to carry the traffic. In the case of the toll road at Grassfield, National Transport has upgraded the existing old road at a cost of several million rands. I believe that that will also happen in this case. I do not want to state this as a fact, but if in the past there has not been enough consultation between National Transport and the province and other bodies, I believe that in the future this will change. We are now getting an opportunity to make the necessary contributions.

The hon member, however, must understand the fact that the draft principle of toll roads would be completely violated if one were to construct a toll road or place a tollgate directly alongside a parallel route of the same standard. That would prove to be a futile exercise. I do not, however, want to discuss the whole principle of tollgates any further now. The hon member must understand that an alternate route would, in effect, have to be economically less favourable to the road user in order to make it economically viable. If the road user were to have an identical parallel road, he would inevitably not make use of the equivalent.

Must it then permanently remain partially negotiable?

That is not what I said. My time is extremely limited, but nevertheless there is something else I want to say. It is my personal view. I only wish I had more time to give the background facts. Economic development and traffic, particularly in the Transvaal, is increasing at a tremendous rate. It is quite clear that in the overall provision of funds there is not or will not be enough money for the demands made on our roads. We shall therefore inevitably have to think innovatively. At this stage I can identify various projects in the Transvaal where, if the province had the power to introduce toll roads—I am not speaking of existing roads, but of new roads—we would be able to make very rapid strides. We have a situation of rapid, virtually immediate development. A mine is located at a specific spot. One or two billion rand is spent, but no provision has been made for a road.

Now the roads have to be constructed with the ordinary taxpayer’s money, while a suitable road over a short distance could profitably be constructed for those road users. I believe that in this way we could promote economic development, defuse many crisis situations and make great strides. That is my personal view, and if I were to have been responsible for this task for a longer period, I would have continued with that policy, and I have already advocated elsewhere that the provinces should have the relevant powers. We work at grass-roots level, and I can say, even now, that the province would not act unilaterally. It would take action after proper consultation and in the interests of all the parties concerned.

I must inevitably refer to something which I cannot but call the hon member for Klipspruit West’s tirade this afternoon. [Interjections.] The hon member himself confessed that he acted in this way owing to his heartfelt hatred. I shall leave the matter at that, but the hon member made certain statements—specifically in regard to roads—which I cannot leave unanswered.

Firstly I do not want to speak on behalf of the hon the Administrator, but he accused the hon the Administrator here of not answering his letters because of the colour of his skin. That is not correct; that is an untrue allegation. A few minutes afterwards one of his hon colleagues made mention here of a letter he had received from the hon the Administrator. He said that every access road to a Coloured township was in a terrible condition, in contrast with those in White residential areas.

Firstly I want to caution the hon member to distinguish between streets within municipal areas, which are not the responsibility of the province, and provincial roads. By way of three interjections I asked the hon member to give me an example, but he ignored me.

As a counter-question to the hon member for Laudium I now want to ask, for example, whether the provincial road passing there is not a dual carriageway. I am thinking, for example, of Atteridgeville. That is a good road, which at present is being upgraded to a dual-carriage, four-lane highway running past that township. There is also the Black town of Mamelodi, to the east of Pretoria. The access road and the road through Mamelodi, as well as the road to the east of it, are top quality roads.

What about the instructions? On that side you do a fine job, but on this side you do not.

I want to tell the hon member for Eersterus that I honestly do not believe that as far as provincial roads are concerned he has any reason to complain. On the contrary, the extension of Stormvoël Street is—with the fly-over, etc, for access to the relevant area—of top quality in my opinion. I cannot become involved in disputes about the streets in the town; I am talking about the general access roads, and the hon member cannot deny that they are top quality roads.

I want to go a bit further, to the Black township, Sekobeni, at Bronkhorstspruit, which has just been constructed. There was planning by the province and funding by the regional services council. Until fairly recently the responsibility for access roads to Black towns did not lie with the province. Last year it became the responsibility of the province. We do, in fact, have a problem with funds. Now there has been the wonderful development that access roads to Black towns are being built and have been built at several places in terms of the priorities determined by the regional services councils and by their own choice in their regions, but there are certain Black towns which have placed a higher priority on other facilities.

I think we must look at this budget and at the facts, not with bitterness and hatred in our hearts, because there is so much—and this applies to representatives of all the Houses and population groups—that is positive and uplifting and to the benefit of all our people. Rome was not built in a day. We cannot go on waving a magic wand. In this province, with the means at its disposal and with the prevailing attitude of the hon the Administrator in this Committee, everything possible is being done to do justice to all population groups in the fairest way possible. I have no more time left; there are other hon members who spoke and whom I ought to react to. I hope I shall be able to do so tomorrow.

†In the last instance I wish to refer to the hon member for Bosmont, who referred to the Baragwanath road. I just want to reply by saying that this is not a provincial road. By way of an interjection I have already indicated that this is actually a municipal street and that he should address his request to the local authority.

*I shall content myself with this. I hope I shall have a few more minutes tomorrow to react further to those divisions for which I will be responsible.

Mr Chairman, while I was sitting waiting for my turn to speak, and was listening to the hon MEC, I realised that we were really going to miss him. He told us clearly, competently and impartially precisely what was going on here in the Transvaal. We wish him everything of the best and thank him for what he has meant to the Transvaal. [Interjections.]

Hon members will agree that the Transvaal is the province in which everything happens. We not only have mines and industries; the province also contains 47% of the country’s total population. The Transvaal is the heartbeat of our economy. This afternoon the hon MEC also spelt this out clearly, and it is indeed a privilege for me as a Transvaler to be able to participate in this debate again on the budget for our province.

Last year we also made history when we met here for the first time from the four provinces to discuss important matters. On 1 July 1986 the Provincial Government Act came into force, and since then we have come a long way, when the various executive committees, consisting of all the population groups, took consensus decisions affecting our country. As a matter of fact, this system can form the future foundation from which our Government can be constituted. However, it remains a surprise to me today that we have the hon members of the Official Opposition here after their pitiful boycott strategy of last year. There is no longer time for petty politicking and scoring points off one another in this country. [Interjections.] When there is criticism, it must be constructive.

The health of our country and its people is of the utmost importance. [Interjections.] As a matter of fact, good health is the most precious possession anyone can have. Someone rightly said: “Health is that which makes one feel that now is the best time of one’s life.” We feel this budget of R1,967 834 billion for Vote 4 “Hospital Services”, is an enormous sum of money. However, we have a deficit of R250 million for which we must find savings for this budget year. If one takes into account that R946 million is going to be spent on salaries and wages alone, one must realise what an enormous task it is to run and maintain 76 hospitals and more than 40 clinics with the balance of that money.

Last year we already spoke about a formula which had to be worked out in terms of which every province would get its rightful share. Unfortunately this has not yet come into force this year, although the Transvaal is better off with 39% of the cake, compared with the Cape Province which is only getting 34% this year. I must point out that 90% of the money which our provincial hospitals in the Transvaal should get, has to be written off every year because of patients who have to receive free treatment. To treat a patient in the General Hospital in Johannesburg—specialised services are rendered there—costs this province R300 per day. We only receive a R90 subsidy from the State.

In Baragwanath, which is the largest hospital in the Southern Hemisphere, and where wonders are really achieved, it costs R140 per patient per day, for which the State also only gives us R90 per day. Patients are charged according to their income and there are many patients who earn less than R600 per month and only pay R5 to R10 when they are admitted to our hospitals. Private patients, who mainly go to our provincial hospitals, only pay R84 per day. These fees were also increased last year and yet, if we compare them with those of the private institutions, they are still very reasonable.

This afternoon I want to say a few words about Baragwanath Hospital. This hospital serves a large city of more than 2 million—actually closer to 3 million—people. Although there are many clinics, it was also spelled out here this afternoon that the man in the street in Soweto prefers to go to Baragwanath Hospital. Of course the 2 000 beds provided there, are insufficient and the hospital is 109% full every day. Nevertheless, no one is turned away. If we look at hospitals in general, we find that as far as Blacks are concerned, the occupation is 75%. Let us give a few examples: Barberton, 49,9%; Carolina, 71,5%, and in the large township of Thembisa the Thembisa Hospital is only 66,4% full per day.

In the past 10 years tremendous progress has been made with regard to Black hospitalization. More than 3 000 additional beds have been provided. Patient numbers have increased by 41% from 506 000 in 1979 to 717 000 per day in the last financial year. As has already been mentioned here this afternoon, the policy is to keep the patient in hospital for as short a time as possible in certain circumstances, and this policy is largely being implemented. This has also resulted in the hospital occupation decreasing by 26,6% in the past 10 years.

Let us look at the facilities for casualties and out-patients for Blacks. Here the number has increased in one year by 6 million, and if we take into account that the White inhabitants of our country only total approximately 5 million, this gives one an idea of the enormity of the situation.

Today I want to express my appreciation to the hon the Administrator and all our hon MECs. I also want to thank the hon the Administrator for the delicious meal. All they get is criticism, and this afternoon I want to say thank you very much on behalf of this side of the Committee for the work they and the officials do to keep this province of ours going.

The other day we received a letter from an inhabitant of Botswana. He also wrote to his own health people to praise the treatment he had received at Baragwanath Hospital. Those doctors and nurses saved his life. He was there for four months and he wrote to his own people to say it was high time that Botswana woke up and provided their own services, because many of Botswana’s people go to Baragwanath, and this also contributes to that hospital being overcrowded and all the people not getting the necessary treatment.

I am very glad to see in the budget that a start is being made this year in building wards G and H at Baragwanath, which will each have an additional 160 beds. When these are completed in a couple of years’ time, they will have cost R9 million. Temporary accommodation is already being provided in co-operation with Wits University and the private sector, through which 300 extra beds are being provided, and I also want to express my sincere thanks for this.

The building of the Soweto Hospital has been discussed for a long time now. It has already been planned and the site already exists. It will be completed in 1993 and 800 beds will be provided at a cost of more than R60 million.

A prominent professor from Vancouver who also helped and worked as an anaesthetist in Baragwanath and devoted some of his time to this, wrote to the Medical Journal of London, and I want to quote the following from what he said:

†That puts it in a nutshell, Mr Chairman.

*Medical and hospital services are becoming increasingly expensive, and one is entitled to ask whether we can still afford to fall ill. More attention will have to be given to preventative services, and the problem of the tremendous growth in the population which is ticking like a time-bomb in our midst will have to be addressed far more forcefully. South Africa is a developing country, but we are maintaining standards which can compare favourably with the best in the world.

Today I want to express my thanks here to all our doctors and our nurses who render such an unselfish service to attend to our sick people in the Transvaal. Nowadays many of our people are fortunately starting to realise the importance of a healthy way of life and a healthy diet to prevent poor health. This must be encouraged. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is a pity that I do not see Mr Schoeman, MEC, here. I wanted to assure him that some of us have replied to his letters.

When it comes to the Nats there is no point in replying. [Interjections.]

I wish to thank the hon the Administrator for the nice lunch we enjoyed. After that we are going to fight civilly.

I wish those people who are retiring everything of the best and I hope that they will enjoy a good rest. I hope that those who are coming in will work hard.

I shall not talk politics today; I shall leave that for Cape Town. I want to fight with the hon the Administrator and I hope that when I fight with him he will take it in a good spirit as I will be fighting for my people. I am not going to talk politics. I am going to talk about things in my constituency which affect my people.

The amount of R3,7 billion which is being budgeted is not shared equally. I just want to mention one example, namely that under General Administration the R179 million is for Whites only. I can go on quoting examples of funds that are for Whites only. Where are all the items where the other race groups are benefitted a lot? Those have been decreased.

If one looks at the admission to the racecourses, tattersalls, fines, licences such as for vehicles, dogs and so on, who does contribute most to these?

I want to ask the hon the Administrator whom I understand is very “verlig” why he does not appoint some people of colour on the administrative side, from the position of junior to senior positions? The hon the Administrator has never exploited the talents of the other race groups. He will be surprised with the results if he should do so. They are even more productive than the Whites.

I believe there were posts for traffic inspectors available. None of the applicants from Eersterus and Laudium were even interviewed. Why? I do not know. Perhaps the hon the Administrator will answer that question.

There is one thing I wish to say to the hon the Administrator, namely that South Africa will never be the same as in 1948. We do not want changes inside here where we are debating this budget while there are no changes outside, especially in the provincial building. [Interjections.] The hon the Administrator is the head there. We want to see changes there. I want to be received by my own people, and not only by Whites.

*The hon Administrator should not be afraid. Even if the CP wins the next election, they will never be able to turn back the clock.

†While on the subject of general administration, I asked the person how many of our people are enjoying the facilities under the item Subsistence and Transport. The answer was none.

*It is only for Whites.

†What is the hon the Administrator doing to improve this situation? I feel that the unfairness of the “baasskap” mentality still exists. I want to assure him that the LP will never rest until the “baasskap” attitude has been done away with.

Mr Chairman, PACT has never performed in our centres. They are always performing in the White areas where we are not allowed to attend because of the Whites Only signs. [Interjections.] Mr Chairman, the hon the Administrator will probably say that PACT cannot perform in our areas because we do not have the facilities. However, whose fault is it? [Interjections.] It is not our fault. [Interjections.] The provincial authorities have all the money in the world. Please use that money. [Interjections.] This is very important. The hon the Administrator’s departmental entertainment budget is in conflict with the Government’s plea that we must tighten our belts and spend less on luxuries. The hon the Administrator asks for R136 000 in comparison to the allowance of R50 000 for last year. It is almost triple the amount for the previous year. [Interjections.] The hon the Administrator slipped up. He did not listen to the plea of the hon the Minister of Finance.

As far as recruitment and training on page 20 of the budget is concerned, are people of all racial groups being recruited or only Whites? Once again the injustice prevailing in our country—here where people call themselves civilised Christians—is illustrated.

Mr Chairman, I have a very sad story for hon members about bursaries. One of my voters applied for a bursary. He passed matric with an A symbol. He waited and waited for a reply until the following year. In March he decided to come all the way back from Cape Town to establish whether he had been successful. He was told that his application had unfortunately been unsuccessful. His White counterpart, who passed matric with a B symbol, was informed in August that he could get a bursary, even before he wrote the exam. That is really disturbing. I can give the hon the Administrator all the information. I have done my homework.

As far as libraries are concerned, we were told yesterday that all the provincial libraries are open to all races. [Interjections.] That is well done and the good work must be continued, but I have a problem. When one goes out to the country areas where some of my hon friends here are in control, my people are not even allowed to stand in front of the door of the provincial library and look inside. Mr Chairman, I hope the hon the Administrator will instruct somebody in the TPA to check on this situation.

Mr Chairman, I want to propose to the hon the Administrator that all the local authorities who discriminate and who do not allow the other racial groups … [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, the hon nominated member Dr Geldenhuys, who was the former hon member for Randfontein, made the comment “referred to Carletonville” during the previous speech. If I did not represent a constituency and had suffered two defeats, I would not have any comment to make …

What was your majority?

More than yours.

Oh, nonsense, it was 94.

The previous member who was speaking assured the hon the Administrator that the CP would not put back the clock when they took over the Government at the next election. [Interjections.] I want to tell him that I have learnt from experience never to say never, because the CP are already setting the clock and assigning each population group its own rights. We shall continue to do what has to be done to protect each population group and we shall not ask anyone what we have to do and not do when we come to power. [Interjections.]

Mr Chairman, so much is being said about discrimination. If I look at this seating list which the NP drew up, I see that the hon nominated members Dr Geldenhuys and Dr Golden and the hon members for Kempton Park and Primrose are referred to as “Doctors”, but for some reason or other the hon member for Langlaagte is not referred to as “Doctor”. I think that it is because he is not such a good doctor. When he was speaking here, he proved this in his speech.

The hon the Leader of the Official Opposition is not referred to as “Doctor”—nor the hon member for Pietersburg. The same applies to hon members of the PFP. The hon member for Parktown, who is one of the most famous heart specialists in the country, is not referred to as “Doctor”.

You had better take your heart to him.

The hon leader of the PFP is not referred to as Dr Z S de Beer. If that is not discrimination, I do not know what is. [Interjections.]

I should like to refer to the hon member for Edenvale. She mentioned here that the CP had boycotted this meeting last year, but she did not furnish the reason why we had boycotted the committee. The reason we boycotted this meeting last year was that we were not given adequate time to speak; on the contrary, the CP had less time to speak in the Transvaal Extended Public Committee than the House of Delegates received in the Orange Free State where there have never been any Indians. [Interjections.] That is why we walked out of that meeting. It was a result of the NP’s unfairness. [Interjections.]

Order!

Mr Chairman, there was also reference by hon speakers of the other two Houses to apartheid and apartheid is apparently the greatest sin which can be committed in South Africa. In one case it was even alleged that a person had died as a result of apartheid. It was also alleged that the hon the Administrator did not reply to letters as a result of apartheid. Whatever happens in South Africa, apartheid will always be blamed. When apartheid was still fully operative, however, there were no problems in South Africa. [Interjections.] Apartheid, separate development or partition, call it what you will, was always the solution and, before the NP got cold feet, it was the cornerstone on which the NP policy was built.

While I was listening to the interjections and especially to NP members who are sitting near me, I once again gained the impression which I always get of them, that is that they say one thing and do another. [Interjections.] All the comments were in favour of apartheid. I listened to the hon member for Germiston and I cannot see how he can sit in the same party as many of the NP members in this Chamber. He does not belong there because the comments which he makes are just as full of racism as those which I would possibly make. [Interjections.]

On the West Rand is a small town, Venterspos. It is the most neglected area in South Africa. During the 1981 election the previous MP for Carletonville sent voters a circular in which he told them that Venterspos would come into its own because so much money had been voted to put that less-developed area right. Since 1981 nothing has happened there, however. In the past two years a considerable number of representations were made to the hon the Minister as well as the MEC responsible for local government and housing in which we requested that a decision be taken about Venterspos so that we could know which way the pendulum would swing. Conditions are so bad at that town which is situated approximately 15 km from the nearest town, Westonaria, that the petrol company threatened to stop deliveries of petrol there last year. After negotiations with the company, a decision was reached to continue in the same way for a year. Threats are being made again now that, if a decision is not reached about Venterspos, deliveries will definitely be discontinued. The town council of Westonaria has done everything in its power to get the Government to adopt a standpoint. In December of last year discussions were held with the MEC, Mr Van Zyl, together with the hon the Minister and it was decided then that a memorandum would be drawn up for the umpteenth time after which a decision would be taken. This memorandum has already been drawn up and submitted and I should like to know from the MEC today or tomorrow what progress has been made with this. Is a decision to be taken? Is there hope for the people and has their future been assured at Venterspos where they have spent all their money to buy accommodation for themselves? I should also like to refer to p 19, paragraph 3.4.4 of the hon the Administrator’s report which deals with squatting. It reads:

I am pleased that the hon the Administrator sees this as assigning new powers to him but this Act has been on the Statute Book for a considerable time. It has easily been there for six months and to date nothing has been done in the area of Zuurbekom. Zuurbekom lies in the area where the Government has now decided to create a Greater Soweto. For the past five to six years Blacks have been entering the area illegally. They have bought land there illegally and various complaints have been submitted to the Administration and the Department of Law and Order but to date no prosecutions have been instituted. The impression which one gets is that the same will happen in every other place where Blacks are pouring in illegally. The Government closes its eyes and nothing is done until there are so many Blacks in that area that they get rid of the place, as is happening now to Zuurbekom.

The hon the Ministers of Constitutional Development and Planning and of Law and Order were requested to visit Zuurbekom last year and to see what was going on there. In desperation a letter was addressed to Mr Van Zyl who then visited the place but to date nothing further has happened.

When the borders of Greater Soweto were indicated the Potchefstroom—Johannesburg road was used as the border. It was then pointed out to the hon MEC that a portion of Zuurbekom where Blacks had moved in remained to the south of the road. We requested the hon MEC to go and investigate and to take steps against those Blacks who are living there illegally, but to date Blacks are still buying places in that so-called White area. [Interjections.] I want to invite the hon MEC once again to go and see what it looks like at Zuurbekom now. People cannot sell their properties. The few remaining ones are so surrounded by Blacks that they cannot sell their properties. [Interjections.] There is one case of an old lady and her daughter who live alone. They are pestered every day. They telephoned the police at half past eight and then they arrived only at half past eleven. Such things happen there. People live in fear in that area which is neither White nor Black. [Interjections.] This definitely has to come to a head now.

The hon the Minister of National Education told us last year before the by-election in Randfontein—when the hon nominated member thought that he would regain the seat—that, where people did not wish to live in free settlement areas, Whites would be paid out and resettled, but this did not happen in Greater Soweto. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure to speak in this committee today. I just want to remind you that South Africa is still at war and we have been at war for a very long time since 1948 when apartheid came to life in South Africa. The fact that apartheid is diminishing a little does not mean that there is a truce. We still have very many problems because of apartheid. I know that because I have been fighting apartheid all the time.

I would like to give some advice to the Government and to the people involved in settling disputes in South West Africa.

We know that those people who left their country to go and fight were trained to come to fight in order to liberate Namibia. When they had to come home now, obviously they did not believe that there was going to be freedom in their country. Nobody welcomed them. They did not even participate in trying to solve the problem at the time. The people who were involved in trying to solve the situation were representatives of the powerful nations not involved in the conflict, except those who were giving money for the conflict in Namibia. I am speaking about the Russians, the South Africans and the Cubans. Those are the people who decided to solve the situation, while the poor people who were doing the actual fighting were not involved in the negotiations.

They had to go home now, and the only possessions they have are their guns and bullets. Of course, the question was how they were going to use those guns. They were going to shoot people. I am saying that we should follow the teachings of the older people of South Africa, such as King Moshoeshoe. Whenever he caught somebody whom he had defeated he always gave him padkos to take home. He always made him comfortable. That person was accepted in the country and in the community. That is a little advice, but I am returning …

Order! The hon member must get to the budget now.

All I am trying to say is that I wish to indicate to the people that many people in the Administration have done a lot of work in the Transvaal, but it is very difficult for the people in the townships and in the towns to communicate, or they do not have the chance to communicate with the Administration, in order to resolve their problems.

I am going to speak about my own community. What happens in Eldorado Park? Many years ago it was believed that there were 40 000 people living there. Now there are 200 000 people. We want a hospital. The Administration does not think we need a hospital because they have never gone to the community to find out for themselves whether there was a need for a hospital. As a result the need for a hospital was never realised, and now the people are saying that the province wants to see that there is dissent among us. We must fight with the Indians and the Blacks because all the people around us are getting facilities except the people of Eldorado Park.

In the olden times …

Where is the money?

Oh yes, we are coming to the money. I shall speak about money just now.

In the olden days when we did not have money …

Then money was no problem.

We will find that when the money was no problem in the olden days there were no facilities either.

At present it is said that there is no money, but the Administration does not address the problem in the community. If they go to the community and say to the people that they realise that there is no money for a hospital, but at least they will give them five ambulances to transport them to a hospital somewhere else, in Soweto or Johannesburg or wherever, it will help. One is ignored, however. They just look at one and say there is no money.

Let us now return to this money situation. Who gives money to the province? They do not make money themselves; obviously they get it from the State.

Now, who is it that decides that services must be cut? Is it the Government? When they are told to cut services, how do they do it? Do they decide about it on their own? [Interjections.] Tell me if it is the State that told the province what to do. In Eldorado Park we had a little clinic five years ago—they called it a hospital clinic—where there were two doctors, five nurses and one person handling the dispensary. After five years there are no doctors, and there are only six nurses doing all the work. [Interjections.] Is that called progress? Is that how the problems are solved in our community?

I tell hon members that I have suspicions. I do not hate, but I have suspicions. I believe that when it comes to the working out of the budget, anything that smells of Eldorado Park is passed over. They do not even look at it. They say there is a hospital in Lenasia and that is good enough. That is all they do. They do not take into account the distance or the other factors that make it difficult for the people to go to that hospital. All those things are ignored. All they know is that they do not have money and there is another hospital.

All I am saying is that I do not want to cause disputes. I want people to speak so that their problems may be resolved. I suggest that in future when the Administration works out a budget they should tour the Transvaal. They should go to any local government and sit down with them and discuss the problems in that particular area. They can even speak to management committees and find out exactly what the problems in that particular ward or town are. After doing that they can sit down and work on the budget, at least knowing what the grievances in the particular constituencies are.

I would also like to suggest that before the budget is finalised there should be a sub-committee set up according to portfolios who can sit down and discuss the budget before it is presented to us. Maybe they will be able to make some suggestions about it. If that cannot be done and the budget is presented here, what does the Administration expect us to do? I think that if there is fuller participation of Parliamentarians as well as people involved in local government about things that happen in the Transvaal, we will not have so many problems. [Interjections.]

I cannot argue with that because I do not know what that gentleman is talking about. However, if people are really invited to sit down and talk about the situation they will really be able to resolve many problems.

I have been travelling around the country. Over the weekend I went to Port Elizabeth. I looked at the nurses coming from that particular hospital … [Interjections.] No, not because they were pretty, but they were very good people. When one looked at the nurses they were smiling. When one went to the matron one found she was smiling. All of them were happy to assist the people.

When one goes to our hospital in Coronationville, one finds everybody is tired. When they look at one, they seem to be asking what one is doing there. One finds that the doctors have been working double shifts. One finds the same in the case of the nurses. In fact, many nurses are going to work in the private sector because we do not offer them facilities. The staff is continuously being cut and those that remain are overworked. That is not productivity. That is not encouraging people to work properly.

I know the hon the MEC’s are told by the Government to cut down on expenses, but all they do is to cut down on facilities. Everything is being cut. The result is that hospital facilities mean absolutely nothing. They are simply wasting the people’s money. Do not say that there cannot be any more hospitals because the Administration cannot really afford to run them properly. We need a proper hospital run by good doctors and nurses who are happy to work there.

I would therefore like to suggest that in future attention should be paid to the situation, especially in my constituency, as far as hospitals are concerned. If it is impossible to build a hospital there when they have had land lying there for that purpose for the past 17 years, they should give the land back to the community, because we would like to build houses. If they tell us they do not want to build the hospital, that will be fine—we shall build houses there. If they want to get rid of that clinic which is in a slum area anyway where they are paying R300 per month, they can demolish that also because it is no good. Perhaps they will tell the people to go to the bushes.

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Carletonville referred spitefully to officials as if they had been trying to discriminate by leaving out all the titles of “Doctor” of the members of his party on the seating list. I want to tell him that he has something to learn in politics and that is first just to get the facts straight. What are the facts? The facts are that the Whips of each party had to give the officials the names of the members of their party. If the hon member feels unhappy about this, he should discuss the fact with his Whips that they have shown disrespect to his leader and the hon member for Pietersburg, Dr Snyman. The hon member should not hold the officials responsible, however.

†Mr Chairman, I should also like to extend my congratulations to the hon the Administrator on his appointment as Administrator of Transvaal. I should like to wish him a good term of office and I sincerely hope that he and his wife will find it rewarding to work for the Transvaal again.

*I also want to thank Mr Terblanche, who is to retire now, for the hard work which he has done for the department over many years. We greatly appreciate this and we wish him a pleasant retirement. The hon MEC, Mr Fanie Schoeman, is also leaving us now and we who got to know him well over many years know that the Transvaal is losing an extremely capable man. He is someone who dedicated himself to the province and to his activities. He was the leader of the NP in the former Provincial Council too. We want to thank him and his wife for their sacrifice of many years and the hard work which they did. We greatly appreciate this and hope that we shall see them often yet. We know Mr Schoeman does not intend retiring immediately but that he is to start making money and we wish him every success in this regard.

I next want to congratulate the new MEC, Mr Fanie Ferreira, also well known to us all. We are aware of his ability and we have no doubt that he will really make a positive contribution on the executive committee just as he did on the regional services council and the Provincial Council. We want to wish him every success.

I want to broach two matters which I think are of fundamental importance to our country. They are something which affect us all. In the vast majority of White urban areas there is an oversupply of White housing. It is also true that the White birthrate in our country is practically nil. It is as near to nil as damn it is to swearing. This is a disturbing phenomenon if one bears in mind and takes into account that at present there are more than 2 000 applications with the Department of Community Development for the declaration of further White areas in the Transvaal. I do not think I need enlarge on this any further because the facts speak for themselves. We shall have to face facts and deal openly with our people. That is a reality.

It is disturbing to hear that approximately 400 to 500 of the applications have been taken up to a point just before proclamation. The developer stops there because he knows that there is no White market. Why am I saying this? It is a fact that there is a shortage of housing for those of colour in our country. This of necessity places existing White areas under great pressure. We experience this every day. It is the truth. It is high time that we look our people in the eye and tell them that we also want to protect our own White communities. It is our intention to do this too. I think it is also our right to protect our communities just as the Coloured community wants to protect its communities, the Indians theirs and the Black communities theirs. To solve the problem and relieve pressure on our areas, most of those 2 000 applications for township establishment will have to become free settlement areas at the end of the day, otherwise we shall not easily be able to relieve pressure on existing areas. We can tell our voters honestly and frankly that we have to do this and that we have to protect our existing White areas, otherwise people must not complain if those of colour move in next to us. Our people must go along this road with us. These are realities and the realities of South Africa.

I want to raise a second point. I am very pleased to see in the Annual Report of the Department of Community Development that 232 000 less 30 houses belonging to the State have been offered for sale to Blacks in Black residential areas in the Transvaal. Of these, 74 600 have already been sold. This is about 32% of the total. I think that this is a great achievement and we should like to see it become more.

I now get to a point which I raised last year too and want to ask the department to negotiate constructively with big developers. I think we could really solve this basic problem and the headaches which are caused by the collection of rentals if developers were co-opted. Let us say for the sake of argument that we value a house which is being offered for sale at R1 500 but there is R500 in accumulated outstanding rent. Instead of having the State claim the amount of R2 000, it (the State) should invest the money with a building society for two or three years and it will receive building society interest on the amount. This could enable the developer to spend an amount of R10 000 or R100 000 on a house to renovate it, for instance, and to build on an extra room or two.

Hon members would do well to take a look at Vosloorus. Existing houses, like the old location houses, are being taken in hand by developers; they build four pillars which blend aesthetically and erect a further storey with an extra bathroom or rooms on this which makes the acquisition of such a house more attractive to the tenant. In that process, we also upgrade such Black areas. Hon members themselves know what they look like. In the new extensions of our Black areas are beautiful houses compared with the old well-known location houses. If this is done, it will not cost the State a cent. After two or three years the State will receive its R2 000 plus interest on this amount. This creates enormous job opportunities which can only benefit our economy and our people. This brings calm among Black communities and eases our headache about the collection of rent.

I want to appeal to the department—they do very good work—for us to make serious efforts to hold discussions with developers on this subject. There are developers who are working on such projects and we should ask them in what way such a project could be tackled. This does not mean that extra money has to come from taxpayers’ pockets and, in doing this, we will solve a basic headache. We can say what we like to one another. This is a fact. If we can settle the people in our country happily and they live under pleasant conditions in their areas, many problems and headaches will disappear. Then we shall have taken a good road to prosperity and peace in the future.

I want to congratulate the department in this regard on the splendid effort which it made in collecting outstanding rent through negotiation. With the exception of a portion of Soweto and one other area, the backlog was made up very well in all the other residential areas and in some cases it was extinguished entirely. Great work was done in the form of negotiations. We have to tell that department that we greatly appreciate this and that they must continue in this way.

Mr Chairman and hon members, unfortunately one has very little time and when so much is said about hospital services, one would like to spend a lot of time on giving all the hon members who spoke here an idea of the actual position with regard to hospital services. How is a budget drawn up? How does one obtain money? How does one determine priorities? Unfortunately my time is extremely limited, and I want to leave it at that for the moment.

The hon member for Eldorado Park really displayed his ignorance when he alleged that when a budget is drawn up, the province goes to the Minister to ask whether he will make the money available to them. If only the hon member would realise how far from the truth that is. We try to budget in a responsible way, so that we can meet our needs in difficult times. The minimum requirement for hospital services for the present financial year amounts to more than R2 000 million. Additional money and transfers eventually pushed this amount up to R2 600 million. When R2 000 million was requested initially, a guideline amount of R1 600 million was granted; R400 million less than we had requested. As a result of my thanks to the hon the Administrator for the action he had taken, a further amount of R150 million was made available. We made further representations, because it was clear that we still needed an amount of R250 million. I wish I could tell hon members what the consequences of this kind of shortage are. Hospital and medical services cannot be rendered without money. We all know that.

I am very grateful to be able to tell hon members that we are still making representations. I believe that we will obtain the necessary funds, because to curtail hospital and medical services to such an extent that there is a saving of R250 million is really not possible without very serious consequences.

Grant me a few moments, after the hon the Administrator has informed hon members about the financial position and existing shortages of staff and funds, to express certain positive thoughts. I also want hon members who are under the impression that provision is made only for Whites, to listen when we talk about the provision that is being made. I want to refer to projects that have taken place over a period of a few years.

During the past year the following projects have been completed: The Ellisras Hospital with 30 beds for Whites and 90 for Blacks; a new section in the Kalafong Hospital with 40 beds; the extension of the outpatient section, the casualty and pharmaceutical services, and offices at the Barberton Hospital; R2 million has been spent on the H F Verwoerd Hospital; the outpatient section and the eating, washing and changing facilities at the Kalafong Hospital have been extended at a cost of R14,6 million. This work has been completed during the past financial year at a total cost of R32 million.

The following projects have been in progress for a few years, and work on them will continue this year: The construction of the Amajuba Memorial Hospital at Volksrust with 22 beds for Whites and 72 for non-Whites; a ward with 30 beds for Blacks and others is being provided in the hospital at Christiana; the construction of Pholosong at Springs with 570 beds at R24 million; the extension of the section for Blacks at the Witbank Hospital; and the construction of the College of Nursing at Leratong at a cost of almost R10 million. This work costing a total of R48 million is still in progress at the moment.

We have not come to a standstill yet, and we are trying to the best of our ability to do something with what we have at our disposal. I also want to report that good progress has been made with the planning of the new academic hospital in Pretoria. This is an extremely necessary project. Unfortunately I cannot elaborate in this connection, because time does not permit me to do so. Good progress is also being made with the Ga-Rankuwa Training Hospital. It is absolutely essential to train doctors, and at present we have a shortage of between 30% and 40% of doctors in our hospital services. [Interjections.] Despite limited funds, the new dispensation that has come into operation, and the establishment of the regional tender board, a lot of equipment costing a great deal of money has been purchased, such as for example the tomography unit costing more than R2 million at the Coronation Hospital; the delinear accelerator costing R5,5 million at Hillbrow Hospital and an assimilator for radiotherapy costing more than R1 million. Further amounts of R800 000 and R500 000 have been spent on big, expensive equipment at the Pretoria West Hospital. The total amount for these services is R21,6 million.

With reference to ambulance services, good progress has been made with the training of ambulance service staff at town councils which render the service as agents of the Transvaal Provincial Administration. I can assure hon members that ambulancemen who have received this training can deal with most medical emergencies at the scene of an accident.

The first phase of the computerised ambulance dispatch system for the Johannesburg Hospital was put into commission on a trial basis on 1 February, and if it is successful—we hope it will be—it can involve enormous savings. I can mention that a comparable city abroad which uses this system—I think it is Vienna—does the same work with the equipment that is being installed here. They receive 2 300 calls in comparison with our 800 per day, and they perform the service in less than half the time and at less than half of what we spend on this service. Consequently I believe we shall derive great advantage if the system is a success. The first phase which we are involved in in the Johannesburg area includes Soweto, Ennerdale, Lenasia and Eldorado Park. After the serious criticism the hon member expressed, he will probably not believe that Eldorado Park has been included as well.

There are many matters, such as the four-year nursing course, to which I should like to draw hon members’ attention, but unfortunately I do not have enough time. I associate myself with the words expressed by the hon member for Edenvale that we are greatly indebted to the University of the Witwatersrand for the assistance we received from Prof D J du Plessis with the extensions to the Baragwanath Hospital, and we believe that this will have been completed by July. We are very grateful for this.

I think I should now reply to certain inquiries that hon members made. The hon member for Langlaagte emphasised the necessity of sufficient funds for the operation of hospital and health services. I want to thank him for drawing this important matter to our attention.

I also want to thank the hon member for Jeppe for his explanation of the rendering of all services to the community on the levels at which they can be rendered best with regard to the nature of the illness, viz clinic services. The administration would like to extend clinic hours, but for the present we have problems with sufficient manpower and sufficient funds.

The famous Dr Lipshitz is working in our administration section at the Baragwanath Hospital at present, and I hope that we shall succeed, as he indicated, in getting doctors not to admit patients who belong in clinics to the hospital, because then we shall have an occupation of far below 90%. I hope that we can get the people’s co-operation and that they will do this.

The hon member for Reigerpark described how he had been treated in the White section of the hospitals at Kempton Park, Boksburg, Benoni and Waterval Boven after accidents, but said that he had been treated badly at the Rob Ferreira Hospital in Nelspruit. I want to tell him that according to this administration’s policy, the hospitals should act as the first three did. We are proud of them, and with regard to the Rob Ferreira Hospital, we shall give further attention to the matter. I am very sorry about what happened. If the hon member has reason to complain, he must draw the attention of the hospital’s superintendent or one of the directors or the executive director to his complaint. I am convinced that he will receive assistance.

The hon member for Bosmont claimed that the Coronation Hospital did not apply sufficient pest control, whereas the hon member for Newclare maintained that the hospital was dirty. With regard to pest control, I must mention that there is an official on duty at the hospital who is supposed to apply pest control. In any case, I shall draw the attention of the superintendent to the hon member’s claim. I am very sorry that as a member of the hospital, he has not brought this to the attention of the superintendent as yet, because if he has done so and nothing has been done about the matter, he must come and tell me. [Interjections.] I do not want to argue with him now, but I invite him to come and tell me or the Executive Director of Hospital Services, because that kind of thing will not be tolerated.

†The hon member for Bosmont remarked that only R450 was allocated to Riverlea Clinic under Budget Vote no 4 G 2 (d). It was his request that Riverlea Clinic be upgraded to a day hospital. The R450 constitutes financial assistance by the province only and does not represent the budget for the running of the clinic. Riverlea Clinic is not a clinic of the Branch: Hospital Services of the Transvaal Provincial Administration but is under full control of the Witwatersrand University Students’ Community Organization. As regards the upgrading of the clinic to a day hospital the hon member should direct his request to the Witwatersrand University Students’ Community Organization.

The hon member for Laudium mentioned the underutilization of the Laudium hospital. I have been discussing this matter with the hon member for many years now. I want to tell him that we cannot get the staff—I am talking about doctors—of Laudium to take employment at that hospital. I wish he would speak to them and ask them to look after their own people. [Interjections.] We simply do not have White doctors to do all the work. He also asked for a full-time superintendent. With what we have there, with about 15 to 20 patients, we cannot appoint a full-time superintendent. As soon as things develop there and we can get a better occupation rate we can look at the situation again. The hon member also spoke about the fragmentation of health services by means of the concept of own affairs.

*The hon member for Rust Ter Vaal also referred to this aspect. The concept of own affairs and general affairs in health services is a direct consequence of the Government’s policy of constitutional development in which all the Houses of Parliament, as represented here, are involved. Provincial administrations implement the policy, and therefore cannot deviate from it in respect of individual own affairs hospitals.

†The hon member for Laudium has some problems concerning the Amajuba hospital which was replaced. I do not understand his problem. We have a great need for hospital services there and that is why that hospital was built.

*The hon member also referred to the erection of a créche with donated funds. The plans drawn up by the private architect were beyond the norms laid down with regard to créche facilities, and the hospital board was requested to have the plans scaled down. This request has not been complied with as yet, and consequently he must not blame us for waiting until we can approve the plans.

The hon member raised other matters which he can discuss with me personally. I shall supply him with the answers.

†The hon member for Lenasia Central mentioned that in the 1989-90 budget no provision was made for the allocation of funds for the Lenasia hospital. The attention of the hon member is drawn to the Estimate of Revenue and Expenditure (first print) p 56 which indicates that the amount of R3 300 000 has been approved for this hospital.

The hon member also asked how hospitals were classified. He has problems with the classification of this hospital. This is a level 3 hospital. An academic hospital is a level 6 hospital. Hospitals are not classified in the way he thinks. Lenasia hospital has 98 beds and is a community hospital. In spite of this many posts of part-time specialists in various fields have been created whereas this happens very seldom at other community hospitals.

If a patient cannot be dealt with at a community hospital he can be referred to a hospital where his condition can be dealt with, such as a regional or an academic hospital. It is clear that every hospital cannot be staffed and equipped at tertiary care level.

All the posts have been regularly advertised but apart from the appointment of two full-time medical officers and the filling of the post of full-time superintendent which is in process at the moment—the hon member said he had been appointed—no other full-time appointments could be made, but some doctors have been appointed on a part-time basis. I may just say that apart from the larger community hospitals, no others provide a 24 hour medical service on the site. Doctors render this service on a call basis throughout the Transvaal.

The hon member asked how the hospital board of the Lenasia Hospital was appointed. I approached the hon the Minister of Health Services and Welfare in the House of Delegates personally to ask him to make recommendations. He gave me a list of approximately 16 people and another 10 people supplied by two MPs, about five each. After discussion with the hon the Minister six people were appointed as members of this hospital board. I do not know what else I could do other than to ask the hon the Administrator to appoint those members to this board.

As far as the superintendent is concerned I can tell the hon member that no one has been appointed. The post is in the process of being filled. The hospital board and the Branch Hospital Services have made recommendations to the Administration of the House of Delegates for consideration.

The hon member tells me now that the board is going to resign because we appointed somebody whom they do not want in that post. I do not know how he can make a statement like that. I am going to leave the matter at that.

I still have a lot to say, but my time has expired for today and I hope to return to these matters some time tomorrow.

Mr Chairman, I observed with disgust the performance of the hon member for Carletonville when he expressed his fear of the Blacks encroaching on the White community. I would rather have thought that a man who has created fire in his own constituency should not behave the way in which this hon member has done. I would suspect his greatest concern is the consumer boycott taking place in his constituency.

Mr Chairman, allow me to refer to some of the remarks made by the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly. I find it interesting in that he has not informed this Committee that Thabazimbi has a population of 32 000 Black South Africans who are temporarily housed in the town, separated from the approximately 5 000 Whites living there by one street.

The newly planned township, Regoragile, was in fact planned to give the residents a permanent area of their own. Why it should be found objectionable by a minister of religion and the members of his congregation in this time and age is in my opinion a mockery of God’s creation. Instead of collecting signatures for his petition he should rather be winning souls for the Lord.

The hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly should have informed us that Blacks and Whites are living there, barely separated by one street. This Hervormde Kerk minister should be better employed in evangelism work among those Blacks who are in my opinion God’s people, and he should use his position to minister to those people rather than send petitions to the hon the Minister. [Interjections.]

Mr Chairman, allow me to point out a few things under Vote 4: Hospital Services, which I believe are very important in the light of our approach to a new South Africa.

I believe a healthy community means a healthy nation. A healthy nation is an enormous credit to South Africa. This cannot be overemphasised.

While South Africa is going through a gradual change at a snail’s pace we would like to see opportunities and facilities opened to all, irrespective of colour, creed, or any other form of racial connotation that may be attached to an individual. I would like to see hospitals open to all, especially in the Northern Transvaal. Hospitals in towns such as Warmbaths, Louis Trichardt and Brits should be opened to Blacks as well.

I believe that quality should he upheld. I should like to see all South Africans represented on hospital boards. I should think that the hon the Administrator of Transvaal with his experienced staff and well-oiled machinery should be able to create the infrastructure for such situations in hospitals in this province.

The problem is not the infiltration of “Whites only” hospitals; we have to improve and then maintain health standards for all South Africans. It is through participation in such bodies that our people will be able to make an input in promoting and advancing the dignity of all. The province is therefore in a unique position to create these long overdue structures.

I would request the hon the Administrator and the hon the MEC in charge of hospitals to upgrade services at the hospital in Pietersburg. While I appreciate the fact that much has been done and that progress has been made, there is still much room for improvement.

I have received numerous complaints from the Buysdorp community that even in emergency situations these people have been turned away from the hospital at Louis Trichardt. It is imperative that this matter should be investigated. Buysdorp is about 50 km from Louis Trichardt, where the nearest hospital is. The next hospital, at Pietersburg, is about 110 km away. Obviously in times of crises these people would have to go to the nearest hospital, which happens to be in Louis Trichardt. They have been turned away on many occasions or referred to Elim Hospital which is a further 25 km or more away from Louis Trichardt.

Turning away a patient who is down, sick and in need of help does not augur well for good and healthy relations. The life of every South African is of paramount importance, whatever his political affiliation or skin colour may be. Sir, I should like to see this matter investigated.

I must, however, give credit to the staff at the F H Odendaal Hospital at Nylstroom. Much good work is done there and the relationship between the staff and the communities, especially the Coloured community, is very cordial. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I think it is our duty as legislators to provide the money, facilities and opportunities necessary for the medical profession in South Africa to continue practising the high standard of medicine which we are used to.

I have been practising as a doctor for nearly 40 years, and I have no doubt that, especially as far as our facilities are concerned, as well as the teaching hospitals where our medical personnel are trained, we do not only maintain a very high standard in South Africa, but are also recognised as such all over the world.

The doctors who received their training in South Africa are always welcomed anywhere in the world. We are offered good positions and wherever such doctors settle permanently they excel as some of the top medical brains in the world. These doctors all received their education at our medical schools.

For that reason I think it is very serious when we read and listen to the speeches of today. Taking into account the speeches of the hon the Administrator and the hon the MEC and other hon members of this Committee it seems to me that there can be no doubt that financially we are no longer providing adequate assistance for the provincial system. I believe there can be no doubt about that.

I have tried to ascertain whether we are able to maintain the standard of service we are used to. I believe we are already failing in that regard and that our standards are deteriorating. There is no doubt about that. [Interjections.]

We only have to read the speech of the hon the Administrator of today. He says one of the greatest problem areas as far as the budget is concerned is hospital services where, as he puts it:

By that he means they will not be able to replace necessary equipment. He adds that:

Backlogs are accumulated. The lack of financial assistance leads to a lack of facilities and equipment and has a demoralizing effect on the medical personnel, doctors and nurses, and we see this every day.

In addition private practice is established in South Africa. It is the Government’s policy to privatize health care in South Africa and therefore doctors are not considered as missionaries. The better the facilities now being provided—for the first time—in private hospitals, the better the financial rewards, and the better working conditions as compared to the provincial system make it impossible for the provincial hospitals to keep the staff required and to recruit adequate staff to carry on with their vital function. Lack of finance is the root cause of all our problems.

I listened with interest today to the speeches of the hon members for Jeppe and Edenvale who tried to offer solutions. However, if there is not enough money the problems remain. There was not enough money last year and for the next twenty years there is not going to be enough money. Health costs are escalating not only in South Africa but all over the world. Other means will have to be found to provide health services.

Without apartheid in the rest of the world?

There is not apartheid in the rest of the world but there certainly is in South Africa. I shall deal with that issue because that is a major problem we have in this country.

The hon member for Jeppe suggested that we must take a look at expensive treatment and see whether it is necessary to provide such expensive treatment. He mentioned a sum of R200 000. Let us take the open-heart operation or an angioplasty. The latter costs about R10 000 today and an open-heart operation R20 000. This reminds me of when I worked in Rumania trying to establish a cardiac unit in Bucharest. There was no money so I was requested to see the Minister of Health. After I had spoken to him he said to me that they understood my problem but that they had people to feed and primary health care to look after. What I said to him I also want to say to the hon member for Jeppe. I said to him: “Mr Minister, you come with me and you tell the mother with a child dying of a heart condition that it is too expensive to operate on that child or to a man who must have an open-heart operation that he must die because there is not enough money.” One cannot do it. It is as necessary to provide that expensive treatment as it is to provide primary health care. With the development of high technology medicine which is improving all the time, the public and the patients demand to be given the best available treatment. I will fight for their right to be given the best and most expensive treatment.

You did not listen carefully.

I did listen. That is what the hon member implied. I will not approve our reducing our health expenditure by cutting down on expensive high technology medicine.

You do not need to go to Groote Schuur with flu.

We must also pay more attention to preventive medicine. We must reduce the chance of people developing what we call First World disease degenerative conditions like cardiac diseases, cancer, strokes and arteriosclerotic conditions. This is also not going to work here because it is well established that 90% of the health expenses of the ordinary person occur in the last six months of his life. That is when he is going to cost the State a lot of money. He then has his terminal condition and his big operation. If we create a preventive health system nobody is going to get ill and we are going to have more old people. Health care is then going to become more expensive. We in South Africa have an added problem in that we not only have an ageing population but also a Westernizing population and an urbanizing population which are all very expensive. Why can we not as a solution try to make our health services cheaper by using what we have?

The hon member for Edenvale spoke about White, Black, Coloured and Indian hospitals—strangely enough, she did not speak about White or Black doctors. She used Baragwanath as an example. I want to ask her to name one medical or welfare association which supports racial discrimination. Why is it not left to us doctors to decide whom we want to treat and how? Why should it be left to a government which in principle will only allow racial hospitals?

It is said that it is the policy of the Government to build hospitals where the people live. Where is the Hillbrow hospital, the Groote Schuur hospital or the Beaufort West hospital? The hospitals are usually built where the White people live except in the case of some Black townships.

Do you know Hillbrow? There are thousands of Blacks living there.

The hospital was not built there because there were Blacks. That is not true.

Our nursing staff must preferably only nurse people of their race except under certain conditions. Those conditions are an emergency or if there are not enough nurses for that particular group.[Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I want to thank the hon Whip for allowing me extra time to conclude my contribution. I concluded just now by saying that a modus operandi should be worked out according to which a management committee and a town council would come together and make joint decisions with regard to the interests of a town.

I am not saying that lightly, but mean it seriously. With regard to my own town, Boksburg, the hon the Administrator or whoever, is in possession of a submission, because I passed one on to the hon the Minister and he sent it to the Administration and asked me to prepare a detailed memorandum, which I will do.

The decision which the CP made without consulting the inhabitants of Reigerpark, resulted in the management committee of Reigerpark taking the decision to suspend its business until such time as the town council changed its mind. Immediately after that, the town council took a decision whereby they wanted to force the management committee to agree to the matter. Firstly, they decided to remove all the functions which had been delegated to the management committee and to place them in the hands of the town secretary who in turn could then delegate them to other people.

What is worse is that they decided that until such time as the committee co-operated with them to their satisfaction, they would withhold the committee’s monthly allowances. Fortunately, greater wisdom dawned on them and they did not implement that decision.

As a result of the existing circumstances, the management committee of Reigerpark decided that the clinic there should not be opened, and the town council then simply said that it was their money and they would open the clinic. There as well they came to other insights and did not implement the decision. That is why I am saying that these things should be decided on jointly.

On the other hand, the Co-ordinating Council on Local Affairs, of which the hon the Administrator is a full member, is in possession of a detailed memorandum which was submitted by the ad hoc committee of the management committee at the time.

Fortunately I was personally responsible for the compiling of the memorandum on how matters should be dealt with at local government level in such a way that no friction would be caused. It was submitted and discussed but unfortunately not much came of it at that stage, because the atmosphere was not as conducive to that as it is today. I want to ask the hon the Administrator to ensure that that memorandum is once again placed on the agenda of the co-ordinating council so that the matter can be settled.

It is being said that town councils are autonomous and can decide for themselves how income should be apportioned. In terms of the ordinance, separate accounts must be kept. In other words, one account must be kept for the management committee and one for the town council. In my opinion this is an annoyance which must be speedily eradicated. The United Democratic Party is of the opinion that the division of income, namely profits on electricity and water supply, sewerage services, tax which is collected on property, the 20% of the income from motor vehicle licences and provincial subsidies, should take place fairly.

The appropriate ordinances which control these matters, were promulgated for that time and not for now. In my opinion they are archaic and the achievement of a fair distribution of income in a town must enjoy the highest priority. It can be said that we have a shortage of income because we live in a Coloured area. Every suburb in the White town experiences the same shortage of services in relation to the income which is obtained from that suburb.

Yesterday I asked questions with regard to why town proclamations took so long and the hon MEC, Dr Woods answered me. I want to thank the hon MEC for replying so quickly—I am tempted to say by express mail—with regard to the problems involved in the proclaiming of Rabie Ridge in regard to which I have been waiting for an answer for the past one and a half years. He made it very clear. He said that the Administrator’s approval was obtained on 26 November 1986. That was 1986! It is now 1989. Applicants were notified on 1 December 1986 and requested to meet with the conditions of proclamation. That was 1 December 1986! Unfortunately it is the Administration of the House of Representatives who is the applicant. It is the LP who is the applicant, because they are in control of matters there. [Interjections.] However, they are not causing those things to happen which should be happening! [Interjections.]

On 22 February 1987, the guide plan was amended. A general plan was approved on 19 May 1987. On 10 June 1988, the scheme in section 89 was approved. The applicant—the House of Representatives—was requested to amend certain founder’s conditions. That was done on 16 January 1989 and approved on 18 January 1989.

You were a member of the LP in 1986!

I am glad the hon member made that remark. In other words, the administration of the country depends on the party to which one belongs. Surely that is absolute nonsense! [Interjections.] I think hon members are jealous that a model town was founded and named after me. The further request was made and on 15 March 1989 the final approval for that was given. For this reason I am grateful to the hon MEC, Dr Woods. All that the House of Representatives has to do now is to open the register. [Interjections.] [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I want to express my thanks to hon members for their friendly interest today in my responsibilities in the Executive Committee. Many thanks too for the friendly interest and the friendly treatment I have received during the past year from so many hon members of Parliament in respect of the matters in connection with which they contacted me. I merely want to reconfirm that I like to maintain an open-door policy and that they and the communities they represent, as well as the local authorities, are always welcome to contact me or the staff of the department entrusted with community development if they have problems.

I want to convey my sincere thanks to Mr Louis Kock, our executive director, and his entire team in the community development branch for the excellent work they have done during the past year under difficult circumstances.

I should like to react to some of the aspects touched on. This will take up most of my time this afternoon but I shall also set aside a little time to reply again tomorrow if there are further reactions from hon members.

In the first place, the hon member for Alra Park spoke about the management committee system which was unacceptable to him. I merely want to tell him that we in the provincial administration are acting in terms of the Constitution which is at present in force. In terms of this Constitution local government is an own affair and accordingly management committees for the Coloureds and Indians and local authorities for the Whites are functioning in the Transvaal. If he feels so strongly about this matter the hon member is obviously welcome to use other channels to demonstrate that the Constitution must be changed.

He did say he was grateful for the regional services councils which were working very well. I want to thank him for that remark, because the regional services councils, along with the local authorities, form our present local government system. They are all part of one system.

He also said that he was satisfied with the announcement of the 106 delegations in the middle of the last year, but he pointed out one shortcoming and said that he felt that development rights should be given to the management committees so that they could also build houses for their voters in their areas. I merely want to point out to him that housing is a matter which has been transferred to the Administration: House of Representatives and for that reason we cannot pass judgement on this matter or authorise a delegation by a local authority to a management committee.

He also voiced his dissatisfaction regarding certain town clerks in local authorities who were not encouraging any co-operation or communication with the various communities in their immediate vicinity. I agree with him that communication and co-operation are very necessary. As a matter of fact I think they are absolutely essential. No local authority can survive successfully, effectively and functionally unless there is proper communication with the communities around it and in its own area. This applies to all communities.

At this stage I also want to express my delight on the appointment of our new colleague, Mr Fanie Ferreira, and refer to an excellent speech he made last year in Potchefstroom regarding this matter. In that speech he indicated that it actually had nothing to do with a specific political policy whether one liaised with the communities in one’s immediate vicinity or not, but that it was essential for the survival of one’s own people. For that reason I want to appeal to all local authorities and all management committees to strive to achieve such liaison.

Perhaps at this stage I should refer to the Promotion of Local Government Affairs Act, Act 91 of 1983, and regulations promulgated in this regard in 1984 which make provision for proper communication. I am quoting from section 3(1) of the Afrikaans text:

A number of alternative measures are outlined. Towards the end it is stated:

However, it also stipulates that the Administrator may take steps against a management committee if that management committee neglects to comply with the provisions. I think these provisions were already announced and promoted in 1982 by the then Prime Minister and were thereafter embodied in legislation. If management committees or local authorities want to contact us in this connection they are most welcome to do so.

The hon member for Nigel referred to Executive Committee members who were not earning their keep. He went on to pose a number of questions about radios which had been purchased. I want to point out that he asked us detailed questions to which we replied in detail. Today he again asked me a number of questions and broached certain implications. The hon the Administrator has indicated that he will react to this aspect himself tomorrow.

†The hon member for Lenasia Central referred to the regulations which I have just mentioned. He said that in terms of these regulations management committees in Natal and in the Free State are allowed to sit in on local authorities, and he wanted to know whether this possibility or alternative is in fact being investigated in the Transvaal. The answer is no. We did not receive any requests for the revision of these alternatives in the regulations.

He also wanted to know why the TUA (Tamcom, Utasa and Ansa) has not been invited to or cannot participate in this sitting. This sitting is meant to discuss the provincial budget, and they can therefore not participate in the debate. They can, however, attend the sitting as guests. If the hon member feels that they should be invited, he is free to do that. Otherwise he can also discuss the matter with us in which instance we can extend an invitation to them, or we can advise them of the sitting so that they are free to attend it if they want to.

The hon member also wanted to know what progress has been made in regard to the incorporation of Lenasia into Johannesburg. He first of all said that one of the bodies—I suppose he referred to the peri-urban board—is defunct. In fact, the board as such is defunct, but the administration’s organisation is still functioning. The hon member also made an appeal that this particular area—Lenasia southeast—should be incorporated into Johannesburg. That is in fact the intention and we fully agree with him.

The hon member wanted to know how far this investigation has progressed. May I mention to him that the City Council of Johannesburg recently sent a letter to the Chairman of the Ministers’ Council of the House of Delegates and to the Minister of Housing, setting out the financial implications of the upgrading of the Lenasia area that should be incorporated to bring it on par with the areas that are already within the municipal area of Johannesburg. At the RSC conference in Cape Town last week, the House of Delegates indicated that they are willing to consider some sort of financial contribution. I think that is already an important step forward. What needs to be done now, is that the quantum of a financial contribution should be negotiated between the different parties. We hope that if an agreement can be reached on the financial issues, the incorporation can be finalised within the next two to three months. The hon the Administrator also indicated that the whole idea is to proceed with the transfer of the peri-urban board to the Administration: House of Assembly by 1 July, so it would be ideal to deal with this matter before that date.

Lastly, the hon member wanted to know what will become of the management committees, and will they become one body. I may indicate that there is no provision whereby two management committees could be amalgamated. The hon the Administrator may, however, dissolve both committees, establish a new larger committee and appoint members to the committee until such time as the first election of members can be held. We have not discussed this. I think this is actually something that should be discussed between the two management committees and also between the management committees and the City Council of Johannesburg, so that they can come forward with proposals to the Provincial Administration that can be considered. This is how I see matters at this stage.

*I now want to refer to the hon member for Reigerpark who spoke about the transfer of own affairs which has just taken place. In this connection I want to say at once that the investigations which took place over the years in this connection—I merely want to reconfirm that this was done in terms of the present Constitution—and the transfer which took place a few days ago, took place in an excellent spirit of co-operation between ourselves and the Administration: House of Assembly. I want to thank the hon the Minister of Local Government and Housing, Mr Arnie Venter, and his staff, most sincerely for their good co-operation and I want to wish him everything of the best in his great task. I am convinced that he will make a great success of this. As a matter of fact he has already made very good contact with the TMA and the White local authorities in the Transvaal in the past year or two and they enjoy working with him.

The hon member for Reigerpark said they found themselves in a dilemma because they did not know who they could turn to, particularly when it concerned matters regarding which there was a dispute between the management committees and the local authorities. The hon member referred to specific local authorities in the Transvaal. I want to assure him that he need not be in a dilemma at all in this regard. A proclamation has been promulgated which indicates precisely which sections of the relevant ordinances and Acts have been transferred and which have not. The Administration: House of Assembly is also in the process of publishing an information document in this connection which will explain the situation very effectively. However, I want to tell him that if there is any matter which still affects another population group—I think this is what he was talking about—it cannot be transferred in terms of the Constitution. This is a matter which still vests in the Provincial Administration.

If the hon member still has any doubts, in spite of what I have just said, he can approach us or the Administration: House of Assembly and he will be referred to the right place because, as I have already said, we co-operate very well with one another.

The hon member also expressed the hope that the Minister of Local Government and Housing, Mr Amie Venter, would do something about the local authorities that did not want to co-operate with their management committees and when there were problems. He referred specifically to a few matters. In the first place I want to refer to a remark which Minister de Klerk, the leaderin-chief of the NP, made recently in, I think, Nigel. He said that an investigation was being launched and that steps were being considered. Obviously this is a matter which is receiving particular attention at central Government level. Statutory amendments will probably also result from this. I now want to state one or two standpoints briefly.

Devolution of power, authority and competency to local authorities is extremely important. This Provincial Administration has always fully supported this, and at the moment we are in the process of transferring quite a number of powers. We believe that decision-making must be brought as close to the inhabitant as possible, and we content ourselves with that policy. However, it can be asked to what extent we can allow Government policy to be thwarted, population and personal relations to be prejudiced and South Africa itself to be prejudiced abroad by the behaviour of local authorities. The line must be drawn somewhere. I think the time has probably come for the Government to consider something. I also believe that this can be done in such a way that the principle of the devolution of power by means of steps the Government can introduce, will not be jeopardised.

Next I want to refer to the hon member for Middelburg who spoke about Soweto and referred specifically to a report in Finansies en Tegniek. The hon member quoted certain amounts and said inter alia that arrears rentals and service fees in Soweto totalled R340 million. If I remember correctly the hon member for Houghton said that the amount was R420 million. The actual figure for arrears rentals and service fees is just over R200 million. [Interjections.] As a matter of fact it is in the vicinity of R210 million.

It is your report!

It is not our report. The hon member referred to another report. [Interjections.]

*At this stage the cumulative bridging finance totals R313 million, and a certain part of this is owed to the local government loan fund.

The hon member for Middelburg also referred to a remark made by the treasurer of Soweto who referred to an R8 million loss, and he asked how that amount was reflected in the budget. The hon member will find it on page 85 of the budget under Vote 7, Item K(2), in which reference is made to bridging finance amounting to R150,981 million. This is the amount which makes provision for the loss.

The hon member also wanted to know whether this would continue and whether something was being done about this. Of course we are trying our very best to prevent this. Yesterday I also indicated in the standing committee that various investigations were being launched in this regard. In the speech of the Administrator and in the report which I tabled this morning mention was made of various investigations which are under way at present.

There are short-term efforts which concern the non-payment of municipal accounts. We have also indicated that Soweto and Lekoa are causing the most problems and that this has largely been eliminated in the rest of the Transvaal.

The second problem we are trying to address—and I shall discuss this further later on when I get to the hon member for Houghton—is the issue of tariffs. We are trying to bring the tariffs as close as possible to the economic tariff, taking into account the affordability of such a tariff for the people. These two aspects are receiving attention in the short term.

The third aspect is the economic base and a great deal has already been said about this. Obviously this is a long-term effort but several investigations are being launched to place the economic basis of these local authorities on a sound footing too.

In conclusion the hon member for Middelburg said that he hoped that the solution would not be to write off the arrears fees. I merely want to repeat what I said yesterday in the standing committee. When we talk about arrears fees, we mean arrears owed by the inhabitants of a specific local authority to that local authority itself. Obviously this is a matter between those inhabitants and the local authority. In other words the local authority has the power to decide on that for itself.

On the other hand the local authority has a contract with the Provincial Administration for bridging finance which is given to it as a loan which it must pay back. If they are able to get these arrears fees elsewhere in order to meet their obligations to the Provincial Administration in respect of the repayment of the loans there will obviously be no reason why they cannot write off those arrears fees. This is the theory, but in practice it does not work all that well. I want to point out to the hon member that we have two totally different aspects here which are indirectly linked to one another. [Interjections.]

The matter of arrears fees is a complex one. It is not easy. As was rightly said here earlier today if it were to be written off for a specific group, those persons who had paid their accounts to the same or another local authority, of whatever population group, would say that they did not want to pay rent or services fees any longer either. In other words this is a step with far-reaching implications.

On the other hand certain local authorities have experienced problems with meter readings in the past. There were Appeal Court and Supreme Court cases in respect of certain tariffs which were announced. Consequently we are asking local authorities to hold discussions with us on the matter so that we can see what the best solution to the problem would be. However, in general I do not think it is in the interests of any local authority or in the interests of the community of the Transvaal in general summarily to write off any arrears fees. This is not something that we in the Transvaal Provincial Administration will encourage. This must be investigated in detail and all the aspects must be investigated and alternative solutions sought.

†I now come to the hon member for Houghton. If I do not have the time to deal with all the aspects that she has raised, I will do it tomorrow. The hon member for Houghton firstly referred to certain statistics in regard to squatters. The hon MEC, Mr Mavuso, will deal with this matter tomorrow. In referring to squatters, the hon member talked about a figure of between 1,5 and 2,5 million people in the Witwatersrand. I should like to ask her if she is certain that that figure is for the Witwatersrand or is it for the PWV area. We have also discussed these figures in detail with the Urban Foundation and with Professor Schlemmer who did several investigations in this regard. Their figures are higher than ours. However, my figures cover the whole PWV area and not only the Witwatersrand. [Interjections.] My colleague will deal with this matter in more detail tomorrow.

I should like to come back to the situation with regard to the elections on 26 October 1988. The hon member for Houghton wanted to know whether we interpret the election results as though Black local authorities or the residents are now accepting them as a fulfilment of their political aspirations. I want to say categorically that it is not the case. [Interjections.] We never said that. We said that the people had indicated that they would like to participate in the decision making process in their own areas with regard to local authority affairs and matters. I think that is a very clear indication that has arisen from the election results. There is no question that the intention is also to give them participation in some sort of constitutional structure on all levels of government—and also on the first level of government—in the future. That should be the result of negotiations which must take place on various platforms. That is not something I can discuss here. However, I want to state categorically that I never said that and that it was never our intention that local government elections should be the fulfilment of Black political aspirations. [Interjections.]

I should also like to refer to a statement made by the hon member with regard to some of the organisations that are now recognising local authorities. That is in fact so. Last year we had several organisations saying that they do not want to talk to the Black local authorities. And all of a sudden they are talking to them. I am not saying that they accept the representatives but at least they are prepared to talk to them. If they are willing to do this, they accept it that these local authorities do exist and by talking to them they do in fact recognise them.

The hon member referred to the polling percentages of the election. I would like to refer her to my report which was distributed among hon members. [Interjections.] If the hon member takes away the percentage poll for the PWV area from the 20% poll she referred to she will notice that it is much higher in the rural areas. Because Soweto has a high population, the percentage poll of 11,2 brings down the total percentage poll for the Transvaal substantially.

I think that most of the local authorities, except for a few like Soweto, Tembisa, Tokoza, Tsakane, had very reasonable polling percentages. If one compares it to the last election for White local authorities, one will notice that a city like Pretoria had a polling percentage of just over twenty per cent. The same applies to Pietermaritzburg and Bloemfontein. These are local authorities with a tradition of elections over decades whereas the Black communities only had local authority elections for the last few years. Therefore I think the percentages that they achieved, are indeed remarkable.

The hon member said that the polling percentages go down to 5% if one does certain things with the figures. [Interjections.] I should like to ask the hon the member to supply me with that information and to tell me how she did that calculation, because I have had people doing the same work. They in fact incorporated people under the age of 18 years, as well as people not living in the municipal areas but in the self-governing states, on the farms, and everywhere else.

Nonetheless she finds it very easy to come forward with a statement like that. For that reason I should like her to provide me with such a calculation, and together with her I will most gladly look at it and then we can discuss it further. [Interjections.]

I will refer to the other hon members tomorrow, but I would just like to refer to one more statement made by the hon member for Houghton, regarding the intention to increase rent and service charges, and her concern that this will again lead to more uprisings and other problems. I should like to say to her that we ourselves are very concerned when we look at these matters, but I would like to indicate to her that although affordability is an important factor to take into account, there are some of these local authorities which have not increased their tariffs for several years. In some cases the tariffs are half of what other local authorities charge, and in those local authorities the income—we get information on that as well—is much higher than in the other areas where the tariffs are so much higher. For that reason it is important to provide a reasonable basis for these tariffs. I think the hon member will agree that that is a fair statement and a reasonable attitude to adopt on our side. We would not promote increases above the amounts that the people can afford. However, I think we should be reasonable and view this by taking into account all of the factors involved.

Mr Chairman, I want to thank you for the opportunity of being able to participate in the debate in our home province as well. I am going to discuss Vote No 5, Nature Conservation, particularly the conservation of threatened game species, such as rhinos and, to a lesser extent, elephants.

Before I come to that, however, I should like to associate myself with the good wishes that have already been expressed today to the hon the Administrator, who introduced his first budget here, and congratulate him on it. The same applies to his assistants, the hon MECs and the heads of department and their personnel who support him. It is a joint effort and I have no doubt that it was a very good one. This team effort will of course produce good results.

It is a pity that from time to time we have to take leave of people who have rendered a very good service to this province. At the end of 1987 it was Mr John Griffiths, who was an MEC; last year it was the former Administrator, Mr Willem Cruywagen; this time it is the hon MEC and Leader of the former Provincial Council, Mr Fanie Schoeman, and the Director: Roads, Mr Louis Terblanché. Mr Terblanché was a person to whom we could go for help, and he was always prepared to help us. It was pleasant to work with him, and we hope he will have a very enjoyable period of rest when he takes leave of us here.

For 8½ years it was my privilege to serve with Mr Fanie Schoeman on the Provincial Council. During the last 5½ years he was the Leader of our Council, and he performed that task with special distinction. We want to thank him for the dedication which he displayed, the courteous way he acted when he was leading us and for what he did for the province and for the people of the Transvaal. To him, too, we convey our best wishes for the time ahead, in which he is going to participate in other business undertakings. May he be very successful in that endeavour. We also want to thank his successor, Mr Fanie Ferreira, very sincerely and congratulate him on his new appointment to the office of MEC of our province.

I should like to come to the budget and, as I have said, discuss nature conservation. As is the case with other Votes we have already discussed here today, we have to contend here with a shortage of funds. We are very pleased that at least there has been an increase of 20,5% for nature conservation, which in monetary terms means an amount of R4,3 million. However, it is only just enough to compensate for the increased salaries which have been announced and which people have already received, and to absorb the other rising costs of facilities which are constantly required. Fortunately this increase is of such a nature that we need not economise in other spheres; there is enough money to pay the people.

It will never be possible to comply with the requirements imposed by nature conservation. However, I am very pleased about the visible results we observe when we consider what is being done in this respect every day. We must pay great tribute to what is happening in this sphere.

Let us consider a few examples. We think of the role played by the Department of Nature and Environmental Conservation to prevent the smuggling trade in rhinoceros products and ivory—something which is becoming a serious issue here in Africa. We hear about it every day; we read about it and we see in various television programmes what these unscrupulous poachers are doing here in Africa. To the north of our borders they are wiping herds of elephants and rhinos from the face of the earth. This is happening, as I have said, to the north of our borders in particular. The poachers come down from the north and shoot the elephants for their ivory and the rhinos for their horns and other products which they then smuggle abroad. They concentrate on the hunting of rhinos because these animals are such easy targets.

Two decades ago there were still more than 10 000 rhinos in Kenya. Now there is a scant 360; slightly more than 3% of that total number are left. In Uganda rhinos are only to be seen in game reserves. In Zambia they have virtually disappeared. The same thing is now happening in Zimbabwe. If this illegal hunting and destruction of rhinos, and to a lesser extent, elephants, is not halted, we will be next. Then we can simply prepare ourselves to accept that the poachers are determined to wipe out these two animal species and to smuggle the products they acquire in this way abroad.

These hunters are very well equipped. They specialise in hunting. There is no lack of aggression on their part. If anyone gets in their way, he is simply swept aside. That is why the game conservationists in Kenya are hesitant to confront these hunters, because they know they are going to be shot dead. They do not want to get in these people’s way; consequently the hunt continues.

In our country we are re-establishing these two species that are disappearing—particularly the rhinos. We cannot allow these unscrupulous exploiters and hunters to come here and destroy our rhinos as well.

However, we must not think that we are going to avoid this threat. It has already happened and here in South Africa we have already encountered poachers that were hunting rhinos and elephants. In Swaziland, where there are still a few rhinos to be seen, they are also being hunted, and the authorities will have to guard against it. Fortunately the poachers there are not as well organised as those further north in Africa.

I have mentioned that the Department of Nature and Environmental Conservation in our province is re-establishing rhinos in various places in our country. This is being done to prevent them all being assembled into one group, and so they are being kept in various places. Of course this is being done very scientifically, and the locations into which they are moved are examined very thoroughly and research is done to establish whether the animals will thrive there. In this way the rhino numbers in our country have increased to a reasonable extent, so much so, in fact, that a group of private game owners have been supplied with these animals, although only for breeding purposes.

The province, too, is not inactive. Our nature conservation department is devising plans. Regular meetings of our provinces are being held, at which we also hold discussions with our neighbouring countries. Plans are being devised to counteract this illegal hunting and measures are being formulated for taking steps against these thieves.

Here in our country far stricter legislation is being considered. For example it is now being proposed that a fine of R100 000 and imprisonment for a period of 15 years should be imposed on the hunting of rhinos and elephants when such an offender is apprehended. This could perhaps deter them to an extent, but if we were to apprehend the poachers from higher up in Africa in this country while they were hunting our animals here, what are we going to do with them? Are we going to throw them into prison here? I feel it would be very unfair to keep them in our prisons at our taxpayers’ expense and look after them here. I almost want to become inhumane and say what we should do with them, but I shall refrain from doing so.

Our province has erected various monuments to nature conservation of which we are very proud. Nature resorts are being established in many places, wherever this is possible. Numerous resorts are being visited by the public. For the city-dweller these nature resorts are a pleasant place to which they can go, relax a little, tour around, enjoy the scenery and nature.

They are not interested.

At present the 59 resorts of the Directorate: Nature and Environmental Conservation are visited by almost 1½ million people annually. This is a large number of people that have the privilege of visiting these nature resorts of ours. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I am particularly pleased to have the opportunity of wishing the hon the Administrator well on his appointment as the Administrator of the Transvaal. This office is the highest in the Transvaal. I had the fortunate experience of working with the hon the Administrator as a member of the Tourism Board. I am confident that he will not only be an asset to the Transvaal, but also to the country. I wish him a very successful term of office.

I wish to express my agreement with the hon member for Lenasia Central regarding the proclamation of Lenasia Extensions 9 and 10. We have been waiting for these townships to be proclaimed for the past 12 years. The people who live there have the right to know when the area is going to be proclaimed.

Sir, I do not accept the story told us. For 12 years the province was not able to solve the problem. Then there must be something wrong. I think the blind is leading the blind. [Interjections.] Please do not pass the buck; call off the bluff and get on with the work.

Business interrupted.