National Council of Provinces - 02 November 2004
TUESDAY, 2 NOVEMBER 2004 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 17:44 in the Imbizo Hall, Empangeni, KwaZulu-Natal.
The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
NO MOTIONS
(Announcement)
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Honourable members, I have been informed that there will be no notices of motion or motions moved without notice. We will, therefore, proceed to the motion as printed on the Order Paper in the name of the Chief Whip. May I then call upon the hon Chief Whip?
COMMENDING THE PRESIDENT FOR HIS LEADERSHIP
(Draft Resolution)
USOSWEBHU OMKHULU: Ukuthi lo Mkhandlu –
1) ubona iqhaza elivelele elibanjwe nguhulumeni eminyakeni eyishumi
eyedlule yentando yeningi ekwenzeni ngcono izimpilo zabantu
baseNingizimu Afrika;
2) uncoma ukuqaliswa kwemigomo kanye nemithetho emayelana
nokuthuthukiswa kwezimpilo zabantu, ukulwa nobubha okuholele
ekwenzeni ngcono kwezimilo zabantu bakithi;
3) uncoma imizamo kahulumeni waseNingizimu Afrika ekuthuthukiseni
abantu ngolwazi kwezobulili kanye nokwenza indawo iphephe, kuliwe
nokuhlukunyezwa kwabesifazane, izingane kanye nabantu
abakhubazekile okungabantu okudlalwa ngabo kakhulu emiphakathini
yethu;
4) uncoma uMongameli waseNingizimu Afrika ngobuholi bakhe
ekubhekaneni nesimo sababencishwe amathuba kakhulu ezweni lethu;
5) wamukela impumelelo kahulumeni waseNingizimu Afrika ekutholeni
ukuhlonishwa yizwekazi kanye nomhlaba wonke ngempumelelo yakhe;
6) ngakho-ke uphakamisa ukuba kuchitshiyelwe unombolo 6 wesinqumo
esamukelwa ngoLwesibili mhla ka-26 Okthoba 2004 esabhalwa
kumaMinithi eNqubo yangalolo suku ekhasini 970 ngesigatshana (5)
esinalezi zigatshana ezilandelayo:
“(5) Ugxeka ukudlwengulwa ngesihluku kwabantu kanye
nokungashaywa ndiva kwabadlwenguliwe;
(6) uphinda elokuthi umnyango othintekayo mawuthathe
izinyathelo ezifanele ukuvikela abahlukumezekile futhi
kuqinisekiswe ukuthi izidingo zabo zempilo ziyanakekelwa;
futhi
7) ukholwa ukuthi imiphumela yokhetho luka 2004 iyinkomba
yoxhaso nethemba lokuthi uhulumeni waseNingizimu Afrika
oholwa nguMongameli uMbeki, usendleleni eyiyo nokuthi
uyophinde wenze ngcono izimpilo zabantu bakithi.”
(7) uphinda unqume ukuqinisekisa ukuxhasa nokuthemba kweNdlu
ubuholi bakaMongameli wezwe, uMnu Thabo Mbeki.
(Translation of isiZulu draft resolution follows.)
[That the Council –
(1) notes the outstanding role played by the Government in the past
ten years of democracy in improving the quality of life of the
people of South Africa;
(2) commends the implementation of policies and legislation with
regard to social development and the alleviation of poverty that
has resulted in the advancement of our people;
(3) acknowledges the strides of the South African Government in
promoting gender awareness amongst the population, and creating a
safety net to curb the abuse against women, children and people
with disabilities, the vulnerable sector of our communities;
(4) commends the President of South Africa for his leadership in
addressing the plight of the once marginalised in our country;
(5) acknowledges the South African Government's success in gaining
recognition from the continent and the rest of the world for the
strides it has made;
(6) therefore resolves to amend item 6, a resolution adopted by the
Council on Tuesday, 26 October 2004, and printed in the Minutes of
Proceedings of that day on page 970, by substituting subitem (5)
with the following subitems:
"(5) condemns the horrific rape and subsequent neglect of some
rape victims in the strongest possible terms;
(6) reiterates that the relevant department takes the
necessary steps to protect the victims of rape and ensure
that their health needs are attended to; and
(7) believes that the results of the 2004 elections are
testimony to the people's support and confidence that the
South African Government, led by President Mbeki, is on
the right path and will further enhance the quality of
life of our people."; and
(7) further resolves to reaffirm the unwavering support and
confidence of the House in the leadership of the President of the
Republic, Mr Thabo Mbeki.]
THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: There is no speakers’ list. I shall now put the question: That the Motion be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present? [Interjections.]
Mr Watson, I am still dealing with a motion and I am still dealing with the provinces. May I be given the opportunity to finish . . . [Interjections.] [Inaudible.]
Mr A WATSON: I say, Madam Chair, that I am rising on a point of order in connection with your ruling on the voting that is just about to take place. If you will allow me to proceed, I will explain why. [Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please repeat what you said.
Mr A WATSON: I said, Madam Chair, that I am rising on a point of order in connection with your attempt to have this matter voted on in terms of section 65 and, therefore, in terms of Rule 71. I am asking whether I may address you on the point.
THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mr Watson, please take your seat. Please take your seat, Mr Watson. Can we please deal with the orders of the day? I will allow you time when I am done with the proceedings of the day.
I would like to continue and say: In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow all provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote, if they so wish.
Nkk B N DLULANE: Ngiyabonga, Mhlalingaphambili. Thina, pha eMpuma Koloni, sithi: Ngokomthetho wama 71weBhunga lamaPhondo, iphondo leMpuma Koloni liya sixhasa isigqibo seBhunga lamaPhondo. Indima edlalwe nguRhulumente kule minyaka elishumi iyabokala ngokuthi imithetho neenkqubo zikaRhulumente ziphucule ukuphila kwabantu ngezi ndlela zilandelayo:
Okokuqala, imithetho yokulwa ukuxhatshazwa koomama nabantwana ikhona kwaye abantu bayafundiswa ukulwa ukuxhatshazwa koomama nabantwana. Okwesibini, iinkqubo zokulwa indlala zikhona.
Iphondo laseMpuma Koloni lithi-ke: Huntshu kuwe Mongameli Thabo Mbeki ngendima oyidlalileyo ekulweni ukuxhatshazwa koomama nabantwana.(Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Ms B N DLULANE: Thank you, Chairperson. In the Eastern Cape, we declare as follows: In accordance with Rule 71 of the Council of Provinces, the province of the Eastern Cape supports the resolution of the Council of Provinces. The role that has been played by the Government in the past ten years can be seen in the manner in which its policies and laws are improving the lives of the people in the following ways: Firstly, laws against women and child abuse have been passed and the people are being trained to fight against women and child abuse. Secondly, programmes against poverty are being implemented.
Therefore, the province of the Eastern Cape says: Congratulations to you, President Thabo Mbeki, for the role you have played in the fight against women and child abuse.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Northern Cape?
Ms S J LOE: Madam Chair, on a point of order.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: What is the point of order?
Ms S J LOE: My point of order, Madam Chair, is that I am from the Northern Cape delegation and I have not been consulted by my province as to what my view is.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Can we agree, Ms Loe, that the matter is one that has to be discussed within the province, but I have requested the views from the Northern Cape and not from the individuals. Thank you, very much. Please continue, Mr Sulliman.
Ms S J LOE: Chair, on a point of order: The DA has established that at least eight of the nine provinces have not been consulted on this matter and have not submitted any written mandates. There are no instructions from the provinces. Madam Chair, perhaps what we need to . . . [Interjections.] What we need, Madam Chair, is to see the written mandates and the written instructions.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Ms Loe, please take your seat. Let us proceed, Mr Sulliman.
Mr M A SULLIMAN: Thank you, Madam Chair. It is always difficult when you are looking for members from your province and they are busy somewhere else with some other things.
Voorsitter, ingevolge Reël 71 van die Nasionale Raad van Provinsies steun die Noord-Kaapprovinsie die konsepbesluit van die Huis. Die provinsie steun president Thabo Mbeki en wens hom geluk met die uitstekende rol wat hy gespeel het in die stryd teen MIV/vigs, verkragting en die viktimisering van vroue en kinders. Die rol wat die President en die regering oor die afgelope tien jaar gespeel het, kan gesien word in terme van die wetgewing, programme en beleidsrigtings wat in werking gestel is en wat die lewensomstandighede van die algemene publiek verbeter het. Dit is sigbaar op die volgende wyses: Die regering het wette in plek wat vroue en kinders beskerm teen verkragting, mishandeling en viktimisering. Hierdie wette bemagtig vroue en kinders om te praat oor die misdade van verkragting en mishandeling. Ons regering het programme in plek om teen armoede en werkloosheid te veg, en versnel hierdie programme voortdurend en verbeter sodoende die lewe van alle Suid Afrikaners. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Chairperson, in accordance with Rule 71 of the Council of Provinces, the Northern Cape province supports the resolution of the House. The province supports President Mbeki and wishes him well for the outstanding role that he has played in the fight against HIV/Aids, rape and the victimisation of women and children. The role that has been played by the President and the government in the past ten years can be seen in terms of legislation, programmes and policies that are in place and which are improving the lives and circumstances of the general public. They are evident in the following: The government has passed laws that protect women and children against rape, abuse and victimisation. These laws empower women and children to talk about the crimes of rape and abuse. Our government has programmes in place to fight poverty and unemployment, and these are continually accelerated, in so doing improving the lives of all South Africans.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, Mr Sulliman. I now call on Gauteng.
Mr M E SONGONI: Siyabonga, Mhlalingaphambili. Isifundazwe saseGauteng sazisa ukuwuxhasa umsebenzi nazo zonke iindlela uMonganmeli alawula ngazo ukugwema ubugebengu kanye nezinye iintlelo zokusiza oomama ukuze bazithole bephephile. Ukuqinisekisa ukuba umdlwenguli akanandawo emphakathini wethu, uhulumeni kaMongameli Mbeki, ngo 1997, wabeka umthetho obizwa Criminal Law and Procedure Act, Act No. 105 of 1997. Lo mthetho loyo wenza ukuba umuntu owenze ubugebengu obuthize, njengokudlwengula noma ukubaulala, lowo muntu angagwetshwa ngaphansi…ngamanye amazwi i-minimum sentence kube iminyaka ethile. Soloko lo mthetho wabekwa, nangendlela uhulumeni agcizelela ngayo ukuvikela amalungelo oomama nezingane, wonke umnu uyazi ukuba sekuyagwetshwa manje, akudlalwa.
Umnyango wezobuLungisa uthi seliphakeme inani labantu abazisa amaphoyisa, bavule amacala. Liphakeme nge-64%, Mhlalingaphambili. Sekwakhiwe iinkundla ezingama-62, kwenziwa nee-maintenance courts ukuzama ukuvikela oomama nezingane. Okokugcina, sekufundiswa oomantshi, abashushisi kanye namaphoyisa ukuze bakwazi ukusebenza ngocoselelo nabomama nezingane. Emaphoyiseni kuneendawo ezizodwa ezibizwa ngokuthi, phecelezi, victim empowerment centres lapho umuntu uma ezovula icala angabe esakhuluma ekhawunteni, kugcwele abantu, kodwa abizelwe eceleni [Kwaphela ixesha.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Thank you, Madam Chairperson. The Gauteng province declares its support for the work and all mechanisms used by the President in combating crime as well as other programmes that are aimed at helping women and children so that they may be safe. In order to ensure that a rapist has no place in our communities, the government of President Mbeki, in 1997, passed the Criminal Law Amendment Act, Act No. 105 of 1997. That Act stipulates that a person who has committed a crime such as rape or murder must be sentenced in accordance with a stipulated minimum sentence. With the passing of that law and the manner in which the government insists on the protection of women and children, everybody is aware that criminals are now punished severely.
The Department of Justice reports that the number of people who report crimes to the police and who open cases has increased. It has increased by 64%, Madam Chairperson. Sixty two new courts have been built, and maintenance courts have also been established. Finally, magistrates, prosecutors and police officers are now being trained so that they may deal sensitively with women and children. Police stations now have victim empowerment centres, which means that when a victim goes to the police to report a crime he or she no longer does so at the counter with everybody listening, but is called aside [Time expired.]]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I now call upon the Free State.
Ms S E MABE: Ke a leboha, Modulasetolo. Ho ya ka Molao 71 wa National Council of Provinces, porofensi ya Free State e tshehetsa qeto ya Ntlu. Porofensi e theoletsa le ho tshehetsa ha holo holo Moporesidente Thabo Mbeki ka tshebetso e kgabane ye a e etsang twantshong ya bohloko ba HIV/Aids, hlekefetsong ya bana le basadi mmoho le hlekefetso ya motabo. Tshebetso ya Moporesidente le mmuso, dilemong tse leshume tse fetileng, e bonahala melaong, ditshebetsong le melawaneng e entsweng molemong wa ho tswedisa pele maphelo le maemo a setjhaba, ka tsela tse latelang: Mmuso o entse melao e tshehetsang basadi le bana kgahlanong le hlekefetso ka hohle hohle. Melao ena e tswedisa pele le ho ruta basadi ho bua kgahlano le hlekefetso ka botlalo. Mmuso wa rona o tla tswela pele ka ditshebetso ho lwantsha bofuma le thloko ya mebetsi mmoho le ho tswedisa pele maphelo a ma- Afrika Borwa kaofela. (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)
[Thank you, Chairperson. In accordance with Rule 71 of the Council of Provinces, the Free State province supports the resolution of the House. The province supports President Mbeki and wishes him well for the outstanding role that he has played in the fight against HIV/Aids, rape and the victimisation of women and children. The role that has been played by the President and the government in the past ten years can be seen in terms of legislation, programmes and policies that are in place and which are improving the lives and circumstances of the general public. They are evident in the following: The government has passed laws that protect women and children against rape, abuse and victimisation. These laws teach women and children to speak out against abuse. Our government will continue with the programmes to fight poverty and unemployment and to improve the lives of all South Africans.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: Ngiyabonga Mphathisihlalo. Ngokomthetho 71 woMkhandlu weziFundazwe, isifundazwe sakwaZulu-Natali siyaseseka isinqumo seNdlu. Isifundazwe, ikakhulukazi, sincoma futhi sesekela ngokugcwele uMongameli uThabo Mbeki ngendima ebalulekile neqotho aseyidlalile ekulweni nesifo sengculazi kanye negciwane laso, ukudlwengula kanye nokuhlukunyezwa kwabesifazane nezingane. Iqhaza elibanjwe nguMongameli kanye nohulumeni nje jikelele, eminyakeni eyishumi eyedlule, iyabonakala emithethweni, ezinhlelweni kanye nasemigomeni ebekiwe, eqhubekayo, yokuthuthukisa izimpilo nezimo abantu abaphila phansi kwazo.
Nakhu-ke okunye osekwenziwe: Uhulumeni useshaye imithetho evikela abantu besifazane kanye nezingane ekudlwengulweni, ekuhlukunyezweni kanye nasekuxhashazweni. Lemithetho inika abesifazane kanye nezingane amandla okukhuluma, bagxeke ubugebengu obufana nokudlwengula kanye nokuhlukumeza. Okwesibili, uhulumeni wethu usebe nezinhlelo futhi usaqhubeka nokuba nezinhlelo eziletha ngokushesha intuthuko, zilwe nobuphofu kanye nokungabikko kwemisebenzi. [Kwaphela isikhathi.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Thank you, Chairperson. In accordance with Rule 71 of the Council of Provinces, the province of KwaZulu-Natal supports the resolution of the House. In particular, the province commends and fully supports President Mbeki for the outstanding role that he has played in the fight against HIV/Aids, rape and the victimisation of women and children. The role that has been played by the President and the Government generally, in the past ten years, can be seen in terms of the legislation, programmes and policies that are in place and which are continuing to improve the lives and circumstances of the people.
The following steps have also been taken: The government has passed laws that protect women and children against rape, abuse and victimisation. These laws seek to empower women and children to speak out against crimes such as rape and abuse. Secondly, our government has had programmes and will continue to have programmes that facilitate service delivery and which fight against poverty and unemployment [Time expired.]]
Ms S LOE: On a point of order, Madam Chair: I cannot keep up with this fascinating debate.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Ms Loe, I have not given you the platform. Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Modulasetolo, Go ya ka Molao wa 71 wa Lekgotla la bo Setjhaba la Diprofense, profense ya Limpopo e thekga sephetho saKhansele. Ga golo profense e thekga Moporesidente Thabo Mbeki go mošomo o mobotse le karolo eo a e ralokilego go lwantsha bolwetši ba HIV/Aids, kato le thlokofatšo ya basadi le bana. Karolo ye Moporesidente le Mmušo ka bophara ba e ralokilego ka go fetiša melao, mo mengwageng e lesumi ya go feta, e a bonagala mananegong ao a begilwego go tswetsa pele maphelo le maemo a setjhaba ka kakaretšo, ka mokgwa o latelago: Sa pele, mmuso o beile melao ya go sireletsa basadi le bana kgahlanong le go katwa, go hlokofatswa le go šumišwa ka boshaedi. Melao e efa basadi le bana matla a go bolela kgahlanong le botlokotsebe, kato le go šumišwa ga mpe. Sa bobedi, mmušo wa rena o tšwela pele ka go tšweletša mananego a go lwantsa bohloki, go hloka mesumo, ka moo go kahonafatswa maphelo a badudi ka moka ba South Afrika. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[In accordance with Rule 71 of the Council of Provinces, the Limpopo province supports the resolution of the House. The province supports President Mbeki and wishes him well for the outstanding role that he has played in the fight against HIV/Aids, rape and the victimisation of women and children. The role that has been played by the President and the Government in the past ten years can be seen in terms of the legislation, programmes and policies that are in place and which are improving the lives and circumstances of the general public. They are evident in the following: The government has passed laws that protect women and children against rape, abuse and victimisation. These laws teach women and children to speak out against abuse. Our government will continue with the programmes to fight poverty and unemployment and to improve the lives of all South Africans.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?
Ms M P THEMBA: Thank you, Chairperson. In terms of Rule 71 of the National Council of Provinces, the Mpumalanga province supports the resolution of the House. The province particularly commends and fully supports the President, Mr Thabo Mbeki, for the sterling role he has played in the fight against HIV/Aids, rape and the victimisation of women and children. The role played by the President and the government in general over the past ten years can be seen in terms of the legislation, programmes and policies that have been put in place, which continue to improve the lives and conditions of the general public in the following ways: To date, there are mechanisms in place such as the Commission on Gender Equality and the National Network on Violence Against Women and Children. The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development has listed violence and children as a critical area of concern in its gender policy. The policy commitment relates to the effective implementation of the Domestic Violence Act, etc.
We further support the President and the government in their efforts to rid the country of all forms of racism and social prejudice, regardless of their origin.
Ms J TERBLANCHE: On a point of order, Chair . . .
Rev P MOATSHE: Modolasetelo . . . [Chairperson . . .]
Ms J TERBLANCHE: On a point of order: I was available and I was not asked to raise my opinion on this. [Interjections.] And I also know that no meeting took place at the legislature. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Moatshe, please continue. You have the floor.
Rev P MOATSHE: Go ya ka Molao 71 wa Ntlo ya bo Setjhaba ya Diprofense, profense ya Bokone Bophirima e tshegetsa phetso ya Ntlu. Bogolo thata, profense e akaretsa le go tshegetsa thata thata Moporesidente Thabo Mbeki mabape le mokgwa o a o dirisitseng go losa Hiv le Aids, mokato le tshutlo ya basadi le bana. Mokgwa o Moporesidente le Puso ka kakaretso, mo dingwageng tse di lesume tse di fetileng, e ka lebega ka melao, lenaneo le melawana e dirilweng go tswedisa pele matshelo le maemo jaa ka golatela: Puso e thlomile melao e tshegetsang basadi le bana kgathlanong le go thlokofadiwa. Melao e e matlafatsa basadi le bana go ba thusa go bua kgathlanong le thlolokfatso yothle. Puso e thlomile melao e losang lehuma le go thloka tiro, ka jalo entlafatsa matshelo a ma Afrika Borwa hothle. Re e tshegetsa jaalo. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)
[Rev P MOATSHE: In accordance with Rule 71 of the Council of Provinces, the North West province supports the resolution of the House. The province supports President Mbeki and wishes him well for the outstanding role that he has played in the fight against HIV/Aids, rape and the victimisation of women and children. The role that has been played by the President and the government in the past ten years can be seen in terms of legislation, programmes and policies that are in place and which are improving the lives and circumstances of the general public. They are evident in the following: The government has passed laws that protect women and children against rape, abuse and victimisation. These laws teach women and children to speak out against abuse. Our government will continue with the programmes to fight poverty and unemployment and to improve the lives of all South Africans.]
Mnr F ADAMS: Agbare Voorsitter, ingevolge Reël 71 van die Nasionale Raad van Provinsies, steun die Wes-Kaapprovinsie die konsepbesluit van die Huis. Die provinsie steun president Thabo Mbeki en wens hom geluk met die uitstekende rol wat hy gespeel het in die stryd teen MIV/vigs, verkragting en die viktimisering van vroue en kinders. Die rol wat die President en die regering oor die afgelope tien jaar gespeel het, kan gesien word in terme van die wetgewing, programme en beleidsrigtings wat in plek gestel is en wat steeds die lewensomstandighede van die algemene publiek verbeter. Dit is sigbaar op die volgende wyses: Die regering het wette in plek wat vroue en kinders beskerm teen verkragting, mishandeling en viktimisering. Hierdie wette bemagtig vroue en kinders om te praat oor die misdade van verkragting en mishandeling. Ons regering het programme in plek om armoede en werkloosheid te beveg, en versnel hierdie programme voortdurend en verbeter sodoende die lewe van alle Suid-Afrikaners. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Hon Chairperson, in accordance with Rule 71 of the Council of Provinces, the Western Cape province supports the resolution of the House. The province supports President Mbeki and wishes him well for the outstanding role that he has played in the fight against HIV/Aids, rape and the victimisation of women and children. The role that has been played by the President and the government in the past ten years can be seen in terms of the legislation, programmes and policies that are in place and which are improving the lives and circumstances of the general public. They are evident in the following ways: The government has passed laws that protect women and children against rape, abuse and victimisation. These laws empower women and children to speak out against the crimes and to report cases of abuse. Our government has had programmes and will continue with programmes to facilitate service delivery and to fight poverty and unemployment, thus improving the lives of all South Africans. [Applause.]]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: We shall now proceed to vote on the Question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Ms B N DLULANE: I-Eastern Cape iyaxhasa kakhulu. [The Eastern Cape strongly supports.]
Ms M E MABE: Free State e a e amohela. [The Free State supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng?
Mr E M SOGONI: I-Gauteng iyaxhasa, Comrade Chairperson. [Gauteng supports, Comrade Chairperson.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: I-KwaZulu-Natal iyayixhasa. [KwaZulu-Natal supports it.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Limpopo re kotelelana. [Limpopo supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?
Mrs M P THEMBA: Mpumalanga iyasekela lokuphindzaphindziwe [Kwashaywa tandla.] [Mpumalanga supports repeatedly.] [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Northern Cape?
Ms P HOLLANDER: Northern Cape supports wholeheartedly.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: North West?
Rev P MOATSHE: North West re e ema nokeng. [North West supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Western Cape?
Mr F ADAMS: Wes Kaap steun, Voorsitter. [Western Cape supports, Chairperson.]
The CHAIRPERSON: All nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution [Applause.]
Mr A WATSON: I am rising on a point of order, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, you are refusing me my right to rise on a point of order.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I am not going to allow you the point of order, Mr Watson, because the matter has been dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution. Thank you very much.
STATEMENT OF CONDOLENCE
(The late Mr N M Raju)
Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, we are taking this opportunity to express words of condolence to the family of the late Nelson Raju. Raju was a member of this House and he was a person who participated in this House. He was a “commentator” on sports issues. When this House deals with motions and notices of motions we will always remember Raju, because he would take his place right at the back of the Chamber, in Cape Town, and mention all the teams, from soccer, to rugby to cricket. He was indeed a lover of sport. This will make us think of this man.
Raju was full of humour, a friendly man. He was always accessible. Indeed, we have become a big family in the NCOP, irrespective of provinces and parties. Therefore, we must applaud the ANC for creating space for all the people of South Africa to draw closer to one another so that we understand that we have a common goal and a common objective, that of changing the lives of the people of South Africa for the better.
May his family be comforted. May his family draw power from above, from the Almighty God. We wish them a better future and a protected one. We so move.
Mr O M THETJENG: Thank you, Chairperson. The DA takes this opportunity to extend sincere condolences to the Raju family after the passing away of Nelson Raju, who sat as a member of Parliament in this House. He was, at one stage of his political life, also a member of one of the predecessors of the DA, namely the DP. His death was untimely and we, who served with him for some months, were shocked to learn of his demise. Nelson Raju would always take his time to congratulate the sportsmen and women of this country with passion. No big sports event passed unnoticed, and he always ensured that a motion was passed in the Chamber.
When we learnt that he fell ill and eventually passed away while on the golf course, I knew that we had lost a person who had a passion for sport, who loved it more than anyone. Most of the time, we shared political discourse and one would not have represented different political parties. Before his death, we had planned to talk politics over a cup of coffee, but it never happened.
He was an orator, and we will miss him. He spoke with authority on every subject that he handled, showing his commitment to everything that he did. The family’s loss is a loss to the NCOP and the greater community of South Africa, particularly in KwaZulu-Natal. We so move.
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Thank you, Chairperson. To me, he was a brother, a colleague and a comrade. He left us so suddenly. Surely he will be missed not only by his family, but also his party, the IFP, and friends and the members of the NCOP as a whole.
He was one person who was easily teased and taunted, because of his unique personality, but he never changed face.
Umfowethu uRajuubeyithanda imidlalo, kungaba yibhola unobhutshuzwayo, ikhilikithi, ibhola lombhoxo nokunye. Uyokhumbuleka ngokuncoma kwakhe njalo abaphumelele emidlalweni yemincintiswano.
Impela imihla yomuntu ifana notshani. Uyaqhakaza njengembali ebuye ibune masinyane, nendawo yayo ingabe isayazi. Sengathi angaphumula ngokuthula. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Our brother, Raju, really loved sport; be it soccer, rugby, cricket or any other sport. He will be remembered for always paying tribute to those who were victorious in competitive sport.
Indeed the days of a person are like grass. He or she blossoms like a flower that soon withers and its place is never known. May he rest in peace.]
Mr K SINCLAIR: Hon Chairperson, when we started in the NCOP as permanent delegates after the April 2004 elections, I did not know the hon member, Nelson Raju. Today, hon Chairperson, I would, on behalf of the NNP, hon Freddie Adams and myself, bring our earnest condolences to the family and to te loved ones of the late Mr Raju.
What I know of the hon Raju today is that he was somebody who, through his passion for sport, envisaged a South Africa that would be free, prosperous and equal, but, above all, cleansed of racism and bias. Who would ever forget his motions in the Council, congratulating and commending our national and provincial sports teams for their successes and, sometimes, their failures.
Today, hon Chairperson, I can declare that the Nelson Raju that I knew was a people’s person with an unequivocal love for our country, South Africa. May his spirit and what he propagated live on. We greet you, we honour you, but, above all, we salute you. May your spirit rest in peace, Nelson Raju.
Nkk A N D QIKANI: Mphathisihlalo, abahlonitshwa bonke abakhoyo nomphakathi wonke, xa sifumana ukuba umhlonitshwa uRaju usishiyile, siye sothuka kakhulu siyi-UDM. Siya kumcinga–ke ngee-motions zakhe, more especially xa epromowuta i-sport – itsho iNdlu ihlokome nokuba ibithule.
Sithi, siyi-UDM, kwifemili yakhe nabantwana: Akuhlanga lungehlanga. UThixo onikayo, ikwanguye nothathayo. Wanga umphefumlo wakhe ungafumana ukuphumla nokonwaba emazulwini. UThixo asikelele. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Chairperson, all dignitaries present and the community at large, when we, the UDM, learnt that the hon Raju had passed away, we were extremely shocked. We will always remember him for his motions, more especially when he was promoting sport. There would always be excitement in the House, even when it was a quiet day.
The UDM would like to say to his family and children: Death will always be with us. It is God who gives, and it is God who takes away. May his soul find eternal rest and peace in the heavens. God bless.]
Mr J O THLAGALE: Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson and hon members. It was with the greatest sense of shock that I heard about the untimely death of our colleague, Comrade Raju. I have known him for the past five years as a man with a friendly and likeable disposition, a sports commentator of outstanding calibre. He was the type of man who would not miss an opportunity to move a motion related to sports, which was close to his heart, as already indicated by my colleagues who spoke before me.
Together with his family and party members, we mourn the death of this son of the soil. We wish them God’s blessings at the time of their bereavement.
Rev E ADOLPH: Hon Chairperson, members of this House, we will never be able to hear Raju’s voice in the NCOP again. His voice has been silenced forever. What will remain and will be remembered always is his passion for sport - all the codes of sport.
I had the privilege of speaking to Raju just a day before he died so suddenly. I asked him a specific question: Raju, you are the so-called unofficial/official champion and spokesperson for sport in the NCOP. Did you ever play rugby or any other sport? He smiled and said to me: No, I have never played rugby, but I love rugby. I think that says it all about his personality. He was really the champion who stood up as the first uniting force in South Africa. His last speech about sport is a reminder to all of us: You must never forget that your talent will only be discovered once you are no longer there.
He passed on to another dimension with God, his Creator. On behalf of the ID and this House, we want to wish his family well - our sincere condolences and sympathy. I want to say: Comrade Raju, hamba kahle [go well].
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, thank you very much. May I also take this opportunity, firstly, to thank the Chairperson of Committees who, together with the Chief Whip, made time to go and bury Raju on behalf of the Council. We want to thank them sincerely. We also want to say to the province of KwaZulu-Natal that their loss is our loss. We have known Raju. Some of us have travelled with Raju. We have never seen such a humble man.
We would like to say to his family, and his party and colleagues: May his soul rest in peace. I would like us to stand and observe a moment of silence in honour of Mr Raju. [Silence.] May his soul rest in peace. Thank you.
CHOICE ON TERMINATION OF PREGNANCY AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee thereon)
Mr J B TOLO: Thank you, Chair, hon members. The NCOP Select Committee on Social Services is aware that the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Bill does not seek to repeal the principal Act 92 of 1996, as some people might have thought. We also understand that the 1996 Act came about largely due to concerns that backstreet abortions were responsible for the large proportion of maternal deaths. This left women who chose to terminate their pregnancies without access to safe and legal terminations. A national study, conducted in 1994, of incomplete abortions confirmed that the situation was indeed dire when it was found that 45 000 incomplete abortions were admitted to public hospitals each year and that, of these, 34% were unsafe abortions.
It is also this Committee’s understanding that the terminations are conducted through those facilities designated for that purpose and that no one may force anyone to undergo termination without their explicit consent. Counselling - prior and post-termination – is also part of the regime, in every case, presenting for termination. It therefore remains the individual’s choice as to whether to terminate a pregnancy or not. I will repeat this: It therefore remains the individual’s choice as to whether to terminate a pregnancy or not.
Chair, we cannot understand why some people think that their views must prevail all the time. They want their views and beliefs to dominate those of others. We cannot understand that. Who is telling them then that their views are superior and that, therefore, they must be the benchmark? If anybody does not believe in the termination of pregnancy, by all means, let that person not do it. Nobody is forcing anyone.
Madam Chair, the legislation seeks to improve the conditions under which terminations are conducted and to open up more primary care facilities for TOP services. So, the amendment to section 3 ensures that the facilities for top services are fully equipped, with the appropriate medical personnel, operating theatres and other necessary clinical and emergency provisions. In addition, TOP services can also be conducted at any ward facility that has a 24-hour maternity service. These facilities may provide TOP services to women who are up to, and including, 12 weeks pregnant, without having to obtain prior permission from the MEC.
Additionally, the new Amendment Bill broadens the field of people who may perform terminations from doctors and registered midwives only, to registered nurses who have undergone some prescribed training. The amendment gives powers to the MEC to make regulations with regard to requirements and conditions as designated by TOP facilities. Furthermore, the MEC may take the decision as to where termination may take place, rather than this being the sole responsibility of the national Minister. The purpose of this is to, having eliminated lengthy red-tape processes of waiting for the national Minister, designate TOP facilities.
Madam Chair, the NCOP Select Committee on Social Services supports the Bill, with the amendments to clause 6.
Debate concluded.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That concludes the debate. I shall now put the Question. The Question is that the Bill be agreed to. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber. I am convinced that they are all present. In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote, if they so wish.
We shall now proceed to vote on the Question. I shall do so in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, against or abstain from voting.
Ms B N DLULANE: Impuma Koloni iyaxhasa. [The Eastern Cape supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Free State?
Mrs E S MABE: Free State e a dumela. [Free Sate agrees.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng?
Mr E M SOGONI: Elethu, Madam Chair [Gauteng supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal supports.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Limpopo e a e thekga. [Limpopo supports it.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?
Mrs M P THEMBA: Mpumalanga iyasekela. [Mpumalanga supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Northern Cape?
Ms P HOLLANDER: Northern Cape supports.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: North West?
Rev P MOATSHE: North West ke ya rona. [North West supports.] The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Western Cape?
Mr F ADAMS: Wes-Kaap ondersteun. [Western Cape supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: All nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the Bill agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution [Applause.]
Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
STERILISATION AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee thereon)
Mr M A SULLIMAN: Madam Chairperson, when this government first passed the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Act, in 1996, some of the sections contained in this Act repealed provisions in the Abortion and Sterilization Act, Act No 2 of 1975, which dealt with the termination of pregnancy. However, at the same time, other provisions of the Abortion and Sterilization Act of 1975, which dealt specifically with sterilisation, needed to be captured appropriately in a different piece of legislation. The Sterilisation Act of 1998 therefore fulfilled this role.
Contained in this principal Act is the provision for the right to be sterilised, should the need arise. Furthermore, the appropriate conditions under which such sterilisation may occur, have been met. The principal Act allows for certain surgical procedures to be followed which result in sterilisation, but have certain exclusions from these sterilisation procedures. Furthermore, the principal Act creates an environment for consent to be given when a person is unable, due to mental disability, to make such a decision. Moreover, the principal Act provides for a panel that includes a psychiatrist as well as a social worker, all of whom have to concur in the decision to sterilise a person who is incapable of consenting.
Madam Chairperson, what the new Amendment Bill seeks to do is to expand the type of procedures for sterilisation. Whereas sterilisation procedures previously excluded hysterectomies, because it specifically excluded the removal of any genet, the new amendment is widened to include hysterectomies and leaves the option open for other procedures for sterilisation.
Also significant about the new amendment is that a requirement is added with regard to consultation with a medical practitioner who originally made the diagnosis recommending sterilisation. So, in practical terms, a mentally disabled person receives additional protection from an independent practitioner, and is not limited only to the views of a caregiver in the final decision as to whether to sterilise or not. For further protection, the independent medical practitioner must provide his or her opinion in writing before sterilisation may occur.
The issue of consent is a fundamental theme that recurs throughout the new amendments. So, when one’s health is in jeopardy or one is above 18 years of age and deemed capable of consenting, one has the right to give consent for sterilisation. However, in cases where one’s mental instability renders one incapable or incompetent to give consent, such a decision can be made by an independent panel of experts. The panel is also restricted in its decision-making in that they should consider what potential effects sterilisation could have on the continued good mental health of the person. Finally, a person must have fully understood the possible implications and consequences of sterilisation before consent can be given, including the fact that such a procedure is irreversible.
Madam Chairperson, the Select Committee supports the Bill, with amendments.
Debate concluded.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That concludes the debate. I shall now put the Question. The Question is that the Bill be agreed to. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. I am sure they are all present. In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote, if they so wish.
We shall now proceed to vote on the Question. I shall do so in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Ms B N DLULANE: Sivumelana nayo. [We support.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Free State?
Mrs S E MABE: In favour.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng?
Mr E M SOGONI: Gauteng iyaxhasa. [Gauteng supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: iKwaZulu-Natal iyavumela. {KwaZulu-Natal supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Re a kotelane. [Limpopo supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?
Ms M P THEMBA: Ke a rona. [Mpumalanga supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Northern Cape?
Ms P HOLLANDER: Northern Cape iyavuma. [Northern Cape supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: North West? Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West re ema koneng. [North West supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Western Cape?
Mr F ADAMS: Wes-Kaap ondersteun.[Western Cape supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: All nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the Bill agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution [Applause.]
Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
DENTAL TECHNICIANS AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee thereon)
Mrs H LAMOELA: Madam Chair, this Amendment Bill seeks to give recognition and acknowledgement to those informally trained persons assisting in the laboratories of dental technicians and dentists. Research shows that the majority of this category of workers come from the previously disadvantaged and have been used as backroom helpers, assisting the qualified dental technicians.
The definition section in the Amendment Bill seeks to provide parameters determining what constitutes an informally trained person and what length of period could be regarded as the minimum training period required to qualify under this category. It was understood by the Select Committee that the five years in question need not necessarily take place only under the supervision of one qualified dentist or dental technician, or even that such training should be continuous, but rather that the total sum of training undergone by an informally trained person should not be less than five years. In other words, if training had been interrupted through circumstances or choice, they are still entitled to accumulate whatever time they served as accumulative training time. They will be deemed to have successfully completed the training once the accumulated training adds up to five years.
Another area of contention for informally trained persons was that the financial acknowledgement of the work that they did depended upon the goodwill of the dentists and dental technicians who employed them. This meant an unregulated work environment that led, at times, to inadequate compensation for work done or services rendered. This Bill, therefore, seeks to redress this inequity and gives this category of workers recognition in their own capacity so that their compensation can be regulated in the same manner as any other profession.
Finally, the provisions contained in this Amendment Bill empower the Minister to make regulations regarding the terms or conditions under which informally trained persons may be registered with the South African Dental Technicians Council. Therefore, through these new amendments, previously illegally trained people will be able to obtain restricted registration with the Council.
Madam Chairperson, the Select Committee on Social Services has considered the Bill and supports it without amendments. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That concludes the debate. I shall now put the Question. The Question is that the Bill be agreed to. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. I am sure they are all present. In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote, if they so wish.
We shall now proceed to vote on the Question. I shall do so in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Mrs B N DLULANE: Oos-Kaap steun. [The Eastern Cape concurs.] [Laughter.] [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Free State?
Mrs S E MABE: The Free State agrees.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng?
Mr E M SOGONI: Siyavuma. [Gauteng agrees.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal ke ya rona. [KwaZulu-Natal supports.] [Laughter.] [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Limpopo ha u seketela. [Limpopo supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?
Mrs M P THEMBA: Mpumalanga ondersteun. [Mpumalanga supports.] [Laughter.] [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Northern Cape?
Ms P HOLLANDER: Ke a rona. [Northern Cape supports.] [Laughter.] [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: North West?
Rev P MOATSHE: North West re ema nokeng. [North West supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Western Cape?
Mr F ADAMS: Siyaxhasa. [Western Cape supports.] [Laughter.] [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: All nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the Bill agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution. [Applause.]
Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The Council adjourned at 18:40. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
WEDNESDAY, 27 OCTOBER 2004
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Council of Provinces:
- Messages from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills passed by Assembly and transmitted to Council
(1) Bill passed by National Assembly on 27 October 2004 and
transmitted for concurrence:
(i) Water Services Amendment Bill [B 17 - 2004] (National
Assembly - sec 75)
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Land and
Environmental Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Minister for Provincial and Local Government
South African Export Statistics for Conventional Arms for 2003.
- The Minister of Trade and Industry
Report and Financial Statements of the Technology and Human Resources
for Industry Programme (THRIP) for 2003-2004, including the Report of
the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004.
National Council of Provinces:
- The Chairperson
Statement from the Acting Minister for Local Government, Housing and
Traditional Affairs in Kwazulu-Natal regarding the allegations of fraud
and corruption occurring within the Ulundi Municipality, Kwazulu-Natal
in terms of section 106(3) of the Local Government: Municipal Systems
Act, 2000 (Act No 32 of 2000).
The statement is referred to the Select Committee on Local Government
and Administration.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Council of Provinces:
-
Report of the Select Committee on Social Services on the Dental Technicians Amendment Bill [B 63 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 76), dated 27 October 2004:
The Select Committee on Social Services, having considered the subject of the Dental Technicians Amendment Bill [B 63 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 76), referred to it, reports the Bill without amendment.
-
Report of the Select Committee on Social Services on the Traditional Health Practitioners Bill [B 66B - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 76), dated 27 October 2004:
The Select Committee on Social Services, having considered the subject of the Traditional Health Practitioners Bill [B 66B - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 76), referred to it, reports the Bill without amendment.
-
Report of the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs on the Petroleum Products Amendment Bill [B 16 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 27 October 2004:
The Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs, having considered the subject of the Petroleum Products Amendment Bill [B 16 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports the Bill with proposed amendments, as follows:
NEW CLAUSES-
That the following be new Clauses to precede Clause 1:
Amendment of section 1 of Act 120 of 1977, as amended by section 1 of Act 61 of 1985, section 1 of Act 68 of 1991 and section 1 of Act 58 of 2003
- Section 1 of the Petroleum Products Act, 1977
(hereinafter referred to as the principal Act), is hereby
amended by the substitution for the definition of “wholesale”
of the following definition:
“
wholesale' means the purchase and sale in bulk of petroleum products by a licensed wholesaler to or from another licensed wholesaler, or to or from a licensed manufacturer, or sale to a licensed retailer or to an end- consumer for own consumption andwholesaler’ shall be interpreted accordingly;”.
Amendment of section 2A of Act 120 of 1977, as inserted by section 3 of Act 58 of 2003
-
Section 2A of the principal Act is hereby amended by the substitution in subsection (4) for paragraph (c) of the following paragraph: “(c) in the case of retail and wholesale licences be the owner of the business [entity] concerned;”.
CLAUSE 1
- Section 1 of the Petroleum Products Act, 1977
(hereinafter referred to as the principal Act), is hereby
amended by the substitution for the definition of “wholesale”
of the following definition:
“
-
On page 2, in line 5, to omit all the words after the first “the” up to and including “Act),” in line 6 and to substitute “principal Act”.
CLAUSE 2 -
On page 2, after line 9, to insert:
(a) by the substitution for subsection (1) of the following subsection: “(1) The Minister must prescribe a system for the allocation of site and their corresponding retail licences [and the supply of prescribed petroleum products to such licensees,] by which the Controller of Petroleum Products shall be bound: Provided that the Controller of Petroleum Products shall only be bound by the provisions of such a system for the period set out in that regulation or any amendment thereto or any substitution thereof which period may not exceed 10 years from the date of commencement of that regulation.”;
LONG TITLE -
On page 2, in the first line, after “as” to insert “to effect certain technical adjustments;”.
THURSDAY, 28 OCTOBER 2004
-
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Draft bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159
(1) National Small Business Amendment Bill, 2004, submitted by the
Minister of Trade and Industry on 27 October 2004. Referred to the
Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry and the Select Committee
on Economic and Foreign Affairs.
(2) Regulation of Constitutional Amendments Amendment Bill, 2004,
submitted by the Minister for Justice and Constitutional
Development on 27 October 2004. Referred to the Portfolio
Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development and the Select
Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Minister for Safety and Security
Declaration of an Amnesty in terms of section 139(2)(a) of the Firearms
Control Act, 2000 (Act No 60 of 2000).
- The Minister of Trade and Industry
Report and Financial Statements of Khula Enterprise Finance Limited
2003-2004, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the
Financial Statements for 2003-2004.
- The Minister of Arts and Culture
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Pan South African
Language Board (PANSALB) for 2003-2004, including the Report of
the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP
166-2002].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Natal Museum for 2003-
2004, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements for 2003-2004.
- The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry
Employment Equity Report of the Department of Water Affairs and
Forestry in terms of section 22(2) ofthe Employment Equity Act, 1998
(Act No 55 of 1998).
FRIDAY, 29 OCTOBER 2004
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Council of Provinces:
- Membership of Committees
(1) The following members of the National Council of Provinces have
been appointed to the Joint Committee mentioned, viz:
Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and
Status of Women:
African National Congress
Hollander, Ms P
Kgoali, Ms J L
Mabe, Ms S E
Mack, Mr N
Masilo, Ms J
Mokoena, Kgoshi M L
Themba, Ms M P
Windvoël, Mr V V Z (Alt)
Inkatha Freedom Party
Vilakazi, Mrs J N
United Democratic Movement
Qikani, Mrs A N D
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson
(a) Executive Summary of Report of the South African Members of the
Pan-African Parliament on the Second Ordinary Session of the Pan-
African Parliament
Insert “1029pap2”
(b) Report of the South African Members of the Pan-African
Parliament on the Second Ordinary Session of the Pan-African
Parliament
Insert "1029pap3"
- The Minister of Housing
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the National Home Builders
Registration Council for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 169-
2004].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the People's Housing
Partnership Trust for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004.
- The Minister of Finance
Financial Statements of the Recontruction and Development Programme
Fund for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2003-2004.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Council of Provinces:
CREDA PLEASE INSERT REPORT - Insert No 1 from ATC1029e
MONDAY, 1 NOVEMBER 2004
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Introduction of Bills
(1) The Minister of Trade and Industry
(i) National Small Business Amendment Bill [B 23 - 2004]
(National Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and
prior notice of its introduction published in Government
Gazette No 26926 of 25 October 2004.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Trade
and Industry of the National Assembly, as well as referral to
the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms
of Joint Rule 160, on 2 November 2004.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification
of the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three
parliamentary working days.
TUESDAY, 2 NOVEMBER 2004
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Assent by President in respect of Bills
(1) Films and Publications Amendment Bill [B 61B - 2003] - Act No 18
of 2004 (assented to and signed by President on 28 October 2004);
and
(2) National Payment System Amendment Bill [B 14D - 2004] - Act No
22 of 2004 (assented to and signed by President on 28 October
2004).
- Bills passed by Houses - to be submitted to President for assent
(1) Bills passed by National Council of Provinces on 2 November
2004:
(i) Dental Technicians Amendment Bill [B 63 - 2003] (National
Assembly - sec 76)
National Council of Provinces:
- Membership of Committees
(1) The following members of the National Council of Provinces have
been appointed to the Committee mentioned, viz:
Members' Legislative Proposals:
Adams, Mr F New NP Western Cape
Hollander, Ms P ANC Northern Cape
Manyosi, Mr A T ANC Eastern Cape
Mokoena, Kgoshi M L ANC Limpopo
Moseki, Mr A L ANC North West
Ntuli, Mr Z C ANC KwaZulu-Natal
Shiceka, Mr S ANC Gauteng
Watson, Mr A DA Mpumalanga
Worth, Mr D A DA Free State
Alternate members:
Mabe, Mrs E S ANC Free State
Mkhaliphi, Mr B J ANC Mpumalanga
Mzizi, Mr M A IFP Gauteng
Thetjeng, Mr O M DA Limpopo
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Council of Provinces:
-
Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the Protection of Constitutional Democracy against Terrorist and Related Activities Bill [B 12B - 2003 (Reprint)] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 1 November 2004:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the subject of the Protection of Constitutional Democracy against Terrorist and Related Activities Bill [B 12B - 2003 (Reprint)] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports the Bill with proposed amendments, as follows:
PREAMBLE-
On page 3, in the sixth paragraph, in the fifth line, after “committed” to insert “in accordance with such international law”.
CLAUSE 1 -
On page 5, after line 39, to insert:
(iv) “engages in a terrorist activity”, with reference to sections 2 and 3, includes - (a) the commission, performance or carrying out of; (b) the facilitation of, participation or assistance in, or contribution to the commission, performance or carrying out of; (c) the performance of an act in preparation for or planning of; or (d) instructing, directly or indirectly, the - (i) commission, performance, carrying out of; (ii) facilitation of, participation or assistance in, or contribution to the commission, performance or carrying out of; or (iii) performance of an act in preparation for or planning of, a terrorist activity, and the expressions “to engage in a terrorist activity”, “engaging in a terrorist activity” and “engagement in a terrorist activity” shall be construed accordingly;
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On page 7, from line 38, to omit the definition of “property” and to substitute:
(xix) “property” means money or any other movable, immovable, corporeal or incorporeal thing and includes any rights, privileges, claims and securities and any interest therein and all proceeds thereof;
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On page 8, from line 26, to omit subparagraph (iii) and to substitute:
(iii) endangers the life, or violates the physical integrity or physical freedom of, or causes serious bodily injury to or the death of, any person, or any number of persons;
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On page 8, in line 48, to omit “defense” and to substitute “defence”.
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On page 8, in line 53, after “insurrection” to insert “in the Republic”.
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On page 8, in line 61, to omit “a State” and to substitute “the Republic”.
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On page 9, from line 21, to omit subsection (3) and to substitute:
(3) For the purposes of paragraph (a)(vi) and (vii) of the definition of “errorist activity”, any act which is committed in pursuance of any advocacy, protest, dissent or industrial action and which does not intend the harm contemplated in paragraph (a)(i) to (v) of that definition shall not be regarded as a terrorist activity within the meaning of that definition.
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On page 9, in line 31, to omit the first “the”.
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On page 9, in line 42, to omit paragraph (a) and to substitute:
(a) the person has actual knowledge of that fact; or
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On page 9, from line 43, to omit paragraph (b) and to substitute:
(b) the court is satisfied that - (i) the person believes that there is a reasonable possibility of the existence of that fact; and (ii) he or she fails to obtain information to confirm the existence of that fact.
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On page 9, from line 45, to omit paragraph (c).
CLAUSE 2 -
On page 10, from line 1, to omit subsection (2).
CLAUSE 12 -
On page 13, in line 16, after “report” to insert “as soon as reasonably possible”.
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On page 13, after line 26, to insert:
(5) A person required to make a report in terms of subsection (1) concerning a suspicion that any other person intends to commit or has committed an offence referred to in section 4, may continue with and carry out any transaction to which such a suspicion relates, unless directed in terms of subsection (6) not to proceed with such a transaction. (6) If a police official authorised thereto by the National Commissioner, after consulting with a person required to make a report contemplated in subsection (5), has reasonable grounds to suspect that a transaction referred to in that subsection may constitute an offence contemplated in section 4, that police official may direct that person, in writing, not to proceed with the carrying out of that transaction or any other transaction in respect of the property affected by that transaction for a period as may be determined by that police official, which may not be more than five days. (7) For the purposes of calculating the period of five days in subsection (6), Saturdays, Sundays and proclaimed public holidays must not be taken into account. (8) Subsection (6) does not apply to the carrying out of a transaction to which the rules of an exchange licensed in terms of the Stock Exchanges Control Act, 1985, or the Financial Markets Control Act, 1989, apply.
CLAUSE 15 -
On page 14, in line 37, to omit “that”.
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On page 14, in line 37, to omit “South Africa” and to substitute “the Republic”.
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On page 14, in line 38, to omit “that”.
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On page 14, in line 38, to omit “South Africa” and to substitute “the Republic”.
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On page 14, in line 43, after “resident;” to insert “or”.
CLAUSE 17 -
On page 15, from line 51, to omit subsection (6) and to substitute:
(6) A person charged with committing an offence under section 4 may raise as a defence - (a) the fact that he or she had performed any act in connection with the property in question, or allowed or facilitated the performance of any act in connection with that property, solely for the purpose of preserving the value of that property; or (b) that he or she acted in good faith and reported his or her suspicion in accordance with section 12 of this Act, or section 29 of the Financial Intelligence Centre Act, 2001 (Act No. 38 of 2001), as the case may be.
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On page 15, after line 54, to insert:
(7) No action, whether criminal or civil, lies against a person complying in good faith with section 12(1). (8) A person who has made, initiated or contributed to a report in terms of section 12(1) concerning a suspicion that any other person intends to commit or has committed an offence referred to in section 4 is competent, but not compellable, to give evidence in criminal proceedings arising from the report. (9) No evidence concerning the identity of a person who has made, initiated or contributed to a report in terms of section 12(1) concerning a suspicion that any other person intends to commit or has committed an offence referred to in section 4, is admissible as evidence in criminal proceedings unless that person testifies at those proceedings.
CLAUSE 19 -
On page 17, in line 8, to omit “Gazette” and to substitute “Gazette”.
CLAUSE 25 -
On page 19, in line 27, to omit “Gazette” and to substitute “Gazette”.
CLAUSE 26 -
On page 19, in line 38, to omit “laid upon the Table” and to substitute “tabled”.
CLAUSE 28
Clause rejected.
NEW CLAUSE-
That the following be a new Clause:
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(1) This Act is called the Protection of Constitutional Democracy against Terrorist and Related Activities Act, 2004, and shall, subject to subsection (2), come into operation on a date fixed by the President in the Gazette. (2) Section 12 shall come into operation three months after the date of commencement referred to in subsection (1).
SCHEDULE
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On page 21, in the fourth column relating to Act No. 76 of 1962, in the third line, to omit “re-“.
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On page 21, in the fourth column relating to Act No. 87 of 1993, to omit paragraph (a) and to substitute:
(a) the substitution for paragraph (h) of the following paragraph; “(h) refuses or fails to comply to the best of his or her ability with any lawful requirement, request or order of an officer or employee of the Department, an inspector or a person authorized by the Council; [or]”.”.
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On page 25, in the fourth column relating to Act No. 38 of 2001, to omit paragraph (a) and to substitute:
(a) after the definition of “Director” of the following definition: “‘entity’ has a corresponding meaning with the definition in section 1 of the Protection of Constitutional Democracy against Terrorist and Related Activities Act, 2004; and
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On page 25, in the fourth column relating to Act No. 38 of 2001, to omit item 4 and to substitute:
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The substitution for the heading to Chapter 3 of the following heading:
“CONTROL MEASURES FOR MONEY LAUNDERING AND FINANCING OF TERRORIST AND RELATED ACTIVITIES [CONTROL MEASURES]”.
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On page 26, in the fourth column, to omit paragraph (a) of item 6 and to substitute:
(a) the business has received or is about to receive the proceeds of unlawful activities or property which is connected to an offence relating to the financing of terrorist and related activities:
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On page 26, in the fourth column, to omit paragraph (b)(ii) of item 6 and to substitute:
(ii) has no apparent business or lawful purpose;
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On page 27, in the fourth column, to omit paragraph (b) of item 8 and to substitute:
(b) that account or other facility has received or may receive the proceeds of unlawful activities or property which is connected to an offence relating to the financing of terrorist and related activities or is being or may be used for money laundering purposes or for the financing of terrorist or related activities or for the purpose of any transaction contemplated in section 29(1)(b).”.
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On page 27, in the fourth column, after item 8, to insert:
- The substitution in section 40(1) for paragraph (b) of the following paragraph: “(b) an entity outside the Republic performing similar functions to those of the Centre, or an investigating authority outside the Republic which may, at the initiative of the Centre or on written request, obtain information which the Centre reasonably believes is relevant to the identification of the proceeds of unlawful activities or the combating of money laundering or financing of terrorist and related activities or similar offences in the country in which that entity is established;”.
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