National Council of Provinces - 13 November 2003
THURSDAY, 13 NOVEMBER 2003 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:06.
The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICE OF MOTION
Dr E A CONROY: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag sal voorstel:
Dat die Raad -
(1) kennis neem dat die agb lid Adriaan van Niekerk vroeër in die Raad ‘n Debat van Openbare Belang aangevra het na aanleiding van die droogte en die brande wat in onder andere die Noord-Kaap gewoed het; en
(2) van mening is dat die positiewe debat wat deur al die lede van die Raad oor die saak gevoer is en die feit dat die agb Voorsitter van die Raad die debat toegestaan het, ‘n bydrae gelewer het tot die aankondiging gister deur die Minister van Finansies, mnr Trevor Manuel, dat R58 miljoen begroot is vir droogtehulp in die Noord-Kaap; en
(3) kennis neem dat inspraak en betrokkenheid lei tot die oplossing van probleme. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Dr E A CONROY: Chairperson, I give notice that at the next sitting of the Council, I shall move:
That the Council - (1) notes that, the hon member Adriaan van Niekerk requested a debate on a Matter of Public Importance pursuant to the drought and the fires that raged in, inter alia, the Northern Cape;
(2) is of the opinion that the positive debate conducted by the members of the Council on the matter and the fact that the hon Chairperson of the Council gave permission for the debate contributed to the announcement on 12 November 2003 by the Minister of Finance, Mr Trevor Manuel, that R58 million had been budgeted for drought aid in the Northern Cape; and
(3) notes that consultation and commitment leads to the solving of problems.]
Mnr F ADAMS: Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag van hierdie Raad sal voorstel:
Dat die Raad - (1) die President bedank vir sy bereidwilligheid om heroorweging te skenk aan die kwessie van die stemreg van Suid-Afrikaners wat hulle op stemdag in die buiteland bevind ná die Regering se deeglike oorweging van die billike en konstruktiewe vertoë deur die Nuwe NP en die VF Plus, soos deur hom aangekondig in sy repliek in antwoord op die leier van die Nuwe NP in die Raad se toespraak op 11 November 2003;
(2) sy misnoeë uitspreek oor die goedkoop politieke propaganda van die agb lid Sandra Botha van die DA oor die aangeleentheid van stemreg vir Suid-Afrikaners in die buiteland soos vervat in haar brief gepubliseer in die Volksblad van 11 November 2003, synde dieselfde dag waarop die President sy voormelde aankondiging in hierdie Raad gemaak het toe die gemelde agb Sandra Botha nie in die Raad teenwoordig was nie; en
(3) van mening is dat die aankondiging deur die President weer eens die waarde bewys van die konstruktiewe oplossingsgerigte aanpak van kwessies in teenstelling met die futiliteit van die blote raas-en- blaas-styl van politiek van die DA.
[Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Mr F ADAMS: I give notice that at the next sitting of the Council, I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) thanks the President for his willingness to reconsider the matter of enfranchising South Africans who are abroad on polling day after the Government’s thorough consideration of the fair and constructive representations by the New NP and the VF Plus as announced by the President in his reply to the speech of the leader of the New NP in the Council on 11 November 2003;
(2) expresses its displeasure at the cheap political propaganda of the hon member Sandra Botha of the DA on the issue of voting rights for South Africans in her letter published in Die Volksblad on 11 November 2003, the same day the President made the said announcement in this Council when the hon Sandra Botha was not present in the Council; and
(3) notes that the announcement by the President again proves the value of constructive problem-directed addressing of issues as opposed to the futility of the DA’s huff and puff style of politics.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): We shall now come to the motions without notice. [Interjections.] Why are we confused? What’s happening? [Interjections.] What’s wrong, Mr Raju?
Mr N M RAJU: A notice of motion, Sir.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): A notice of motion? But I called you earlier and you said you had nothing. [Interjections.] Is it a motion without notice or notice of a motion?
Mr N M RAJU: Well, to be honest, it’s an obituary. I’m not certain whether it is a notice of motion or a motion without notice. [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: A motion without notice!
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Without notice.
Mr N M RAJU: I’ll take the one on sport.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): OK. We now come to the motions without notice.
PERFORMANCE OF SPRINGBOKS IN RUGBY WORLD CUP
(Draft Resolution) Mr N M RAJU: I move without notice ÿ.ÿ.ÿ. [Laughter.]
That the Council -
(1) notes that the once mighty Springboks -
(a) decisively won the Rugby World Cup in 1995, ushering in a sense
of euphoria and magnetic unity to a divided Republic; and
(b) return home today from Down Under having abdicated their laurels
in pathetic performances, culminating in an uncharacteristic
exit from the quarter-final crunch match against their nemesis,
the All Blacks of New Zealand;
(2) calls upon the SA Rugby hierarchy not to indulge in defensive semantics, but to concede and acknowledge that something is indeed rotten in the state of Denmark;
(3) further calls upon the SA Rugby Board to seriously analyse the reasons for the parlous situation in which the country’s national sport of rugby/football finds itself, to adopt a thoroughly professional approach to whatever needs to be done and to ensure that our beloved Springbok is saved from extinction;
(4) further calls upon the SA rugby-loving public, as disappointed as they are, not to be too despondent, but to hope, in the words of the poet Percy Bysshe Shelley: “If winter comes, can spring be far behind?”
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Are you objecting, Mr Matthee? In the light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.
DROWNING OF CHILD IN PELICAN PARK SWIMMING POOL
(Draft Resolution) Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Mr Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with sadness the death of the two-year-old son of an ANC MP, who drowned in the communal pool of the Pelican Park parliamentary village on Tuesday;
(2) further notes that this incident could have been prevented if safety regulations had been adhered to and the pool’s gate latch had not been broken;
(3) believes that the father, Mr Zunaid Kotwal from Mpumalanga, said on Wednesday he had been in a meeting of the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs when he received the news of his son’s death;
(4) urges the Minister of Public Works to ensure that safety regulations at the communal pools are adhered to as all the grounds of all parliamentary villages in the city are the responsibility of her department; and
(5) expresses its condolences to the family members and friends who are affected by this death.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Ms C BOTHA: Mr Chairperson, I do not want to object. I wonder if it would be in order if we asked this House to rise for a moment of silence in sympathy with the loss experienced.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): OK, I shall consider that.
Mr Raju? Why are you standing, Mr Raju? Do you wish to raise something with regard to the same motion?
Mr N M RAJU: No. [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Mr Raju, you having been standing, unnoticed, the whole of this afternoon. Can you wait until your turn comes, please?
DIABETES AWARENESS WEEK
(Draft Resolution)
Dr P J C NEL: Mr Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that -
(a) Diabetes Awareness Week started on Monday, 11 November 2003, and
runs to Sunday, 16 November 2003;
(b) in South Africa the incidence of diabetes is growing rapidly
with about one million diagnosed diabetics and an estimated one
million more walking around undiagnosed;
(c) the International Diabetes Association has recently warned that
the number of people with diabetes is expected to double
worldwide in the next 15 years, and in Africa, to treble;
(d) some specialist physicians are seeing this silent epidemic to be
as serious as the "Aids epidemic";
(e) this epidemic costs the country hundreds of millions of rands
annually; and
(f) early diagnosis and proper care of diabetes can prevent more
than 50% of serious complications, including strokes, heart
attacks, amputations due to gangrene and blindness; and
(2) requests the Minister of Health to run a special campaign to alert South Africans to the danger of diabetes by communicating the 10 early warning signs to them, as early detection of diabetes is vital to avoid serious irreversible damage - this should be done not only during this week but as part of an ongoing process.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Ms Botha, I’ve considered your request. Normally we only observe a moment of silence when it’s a member of this House, so unfortunately your request cannot be complied with.
BURGERS HALL FARM - RESTORATION OF LAND OWNERSHIP
(Draft Resolution)
Ms M P THEMBA: Mr Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with joy that on 15 November 2003 members of the Giba community in White River, Mpumalanga, will become proud owners of Burgers Hall farm, a piece of land from which they were displaced half a century ago;
(2) acknowledges that the dispossession and denial of rights to land have resulted in the present unequal division of land and in landlessness;
(3) further acknowledges that since 1994 the ANC-led Government has implemented a number of policies that provide access to land, both as a productive resource and to ensure that all citizens have a secure place to live; and
(4) believes the restoration of land ownership to the Giba community is a direct result of the success of these policies.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
RACIAL ATTACK ON FEMALE LEARNER IN SCHOOL GROUNDS
(Draft Resolution)
Ms E N LUBIDLA: Deputy Chair, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) views seriously the fact that a young, black female learner from Edgemead High School in the Western Cape was targeted in a racially abusive act by another learner and her parent;
(2) condemns with outrage the inhumane manner in which this learner was viciously attacked;
(3) further notes that the learner will still need a great deal of counselling to overcome the trauma and indignity that she suffered as a result of this action;
(4) also notes that we are already almost 10 years into a democracy that protects every citizen from being a target of racist behaviour; and
(5) urges that -
(a) the Department of Education intervenes on behalf of the
aggrieved learner and gives her all the support that she
needs;
(b) the Department of Education investigates issues of racism
in all schools across the country;
(c) the full force of the justice system is brought down on
the perpetrators of this racially motivated crime; and
(d) ordinary South Africans in our new democracy who are
justifiably outraged by the racist actions assist the
Department of Education by reporting cases as they occur.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Mr Sulliman?
Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chairperson, I shall no longer move my motion, because mine was similar to that of the hon member Vilakazi.
HEAVY VEHICLES - STRICTER LAWS PERTAINING TO INSPECTION AND FINES
(Draft Resolution)
Ms B THOMSON: Chair, I wish to move a motion without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that in the wake of the numerous fatal accidents involving trucks, the Department of Transport has decided to draft stricter laws for heavy vehicles;
(2) further notes that the new regulations would include permanent roadblocks at the entrance of each magisterial district, making two drivers available for trucks crossing borders, heavier fines imposed on offenders, repeated offenders losing their trading licences, more weigh bridges and an inspectorate for checking overloaded trucks;
(3) acknowledges the steps that have already been taken by some local government authorities such as the Tswane Metro Council that has already set up a checkpoint which compels all heavy duty drivers to stop and have their vehicles inspected before entering the city; and
(4) welcomes these steps as further proof of the commitment of the Minister of Transport and provincial departments to enhance the safety of our transport system.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SA POLICE SERVICE - FIRST FEMALE PROVINCIAL DEPUTY COMMISSIONER IN GAUTENG
(Draft Resolution)
Rev M CHABAKU: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move a motion without notice in this prestigious House:
That the Council -
(1) commends the Gauteng Legislature on their appointment of their first female provincial deputy commissioner in the South African Police Service, commissioner Zukiswa Mbombo, who is the third female deputy commissioner in the country; (2) notes that as she has been in the police force for 23 years, it is very probable that many men of less experience, service and qualifications have been promoted over her many times;
(3) congratulates her on her background in nursing, an honours degree in policing from the University of Zululand and a diploma in financial management from Unisa;
(4) also notes that she has headed departments dealing with logistics, finances, human resources, communications and management services in the Gauteng police service;
(5) regrets that women still have to be overqualified to merit promotion; and
(6) therefore hopes and trusts that more women and youth will be recognised and empowered to serve in this new South Africa.
[Applause.] Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
COMMUNAL LAND RIGHTS BILL - TRANSLATION INTO ALL OFFICIAL LANGUAGES
REQUIRED
(Draft Resolution)
Me C BOTHA: Voorsitter, ek stel hiermee sonder kennisgewing voor:
Dat die Raad -
(1) kennis neem van die `` Communal Land Rights Bill’’ waaroor tans openbare voorleggings in die Portefeuljekomitee oor Landbou en Grondsake gemaak word;
(2) daarvan kennis neem dat -
(a) ten spyte daarvan dat die wetsontwerp grootliks betrekking het
op dié deel van die bevolking wat nie Engels as eerste of selfs
tweede taal magtig is nie, geen amptelike vertaling van die
wetsontwerp beskikbaar is nie;
(b) die portefeuljekomitee in Augustus 2002 onderneem het dat
oorlegpleging oor hierdie wetsontwerp nie sal plaasvind voordat
dit vertaal is in die inheemse tale van die 15 miljoen mense wat
regstreeks deur dié wetsontwerp geraak word nie;
(c) hierdie gebrek aan vertaling indruis teen die gees van die
grondwetlike vereistes wat die staat verplig om praktiese en
positiewe stappe te doen om die status van hierdie tale en
gemeenskappe te verhoog; en
(d) dit die wetgewende proses onnodig vertraag en verdag maak; en
(3) versoek dat die Minister vir Landbou en Grondsake onmiddellik werk maak om die wetsontwerp in alle landstale beskikbaar te stel. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Ms C BOTHA: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) takes note of the Communal Land Rights Bill for which public representations are at present being made in the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs;
(2) notes that -
(a) in spite of the fact that the Bill largely applies to that part
of the population that is not in command of English as their
first or even second language, no official translation of the
Bill is available;
(b) the portfolio committee undertook in August 2002 that no
deliberation on this Bill would take place until it has been
translated into the indigenous languages of the 15 million
people who are directly affected by the Bill;
(c) this lack of translation is in conflict with the spirit of the
constitutional requirements that compel the state to take
positive steps to enhance the status of these languages and
communities; and
(d) it delays the legislative process unnecessarily and makes it
suspect; and
(3) requests the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs to take steps immediately to have the Bill translated into all indigenous languages.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Is there any objection? [Interjections.] In the light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion. DEATH OF KEN GAMPU
(Draft Resolution)
Mr N M RAJU: Chair, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes -
(a) with sadness the passing away of one of South Africa's great
Black actors, film star Ken Gampu, who died at his home in
Vosloorus on the East Rand a week ago after a long illness;
(b) that Ken Gampu was indeed a trailblazer, having acted with such
distinction alongside great actors such as Richard Todd, Roger
Moore, Richard Burton, Anthony Quinn, Gavin Hood and Nigel
Hawthorne; and
(c) that some of the films in which he starred were: A Reasonable
Man - his most recent film, made in 1999, Dingaka, Zulu Dawn, A
Game of Vultures, Naked Prey, King Solomon's Mines, Tigers Don't
Cry and others;
(2) remembers Ken Gampu for his imposing stage appearances in township jazz opera King Kong; A Xmas Story and Ipi Tombi - SABC viewers will also remember Ken Gampu’s roles in dramas such as Gaz’lam, Diggers, Riverman, Soul City and John Ross;
(3) acknowledges that Ken Gampu did the country proud, especially as he was, in the world of arts and theatre, the silver lining during the dark clouds of apartheid madness; and
(4) conveys its heartfelt condolences to his surviving wife and sons and mourns with them the loss of a great African.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SUPREMACY OF THE LAW AND INDEPENDENCE OF THE JUDICIARY
(Draft Resolution)
Mnr P A MATTHEE: Voorsitter, ek stel hiermee sonder kennisgewing voor:
Dat die Raad -
(1) opnuut sy absolute verbintenis tot die oppergesag van die reg en die onafhanklikheid van die regbank as ‘n hoeksteen van ons konstitusionele demokrasie bevestig, en daarom die Minister van Veiligheid en Sekuriteit bedank -
(a) vir sy onmiddellike en absolute onvoorwaardelike onderneming, na
samesprekings met 'n afvaardiging van die Nuwe Nasionale Party,
na aanleiding van die ongelukkige insident van die arres van
landdros Hendrik van der Walt van Groblersdal, dat daar
hoegenaamd geen inmenging met enige regsprekende beampte,
insluitende moontlike arrestasie, sal wees as gevolg van
enigiets wat 'n regsprekende beampte mag doen in sy/haar
hoedanigheid as 'n regsprekende beampte nie;
(b) vir sy aanstelling van 'n ondersoek op hoë vlak onder leiding
van die Nasionale Speurhoof, Kommissaris Johan de Beer, na die
hele aangeleentheid;
(2) van mening is dat die vinnige en besliste optrede van die Minister die Regering se verbintenis bewys tot die oppergesag van die reg en die onafhanklikheid van die Regbank asook die waarde bewys van die konstruktiewe oplossingsgerigte bedryf van die politiek deur die Nuwe NP en die ANC teenoor die futiliteit van die afbrekende, negatiewe, sensasiesoekende, kontraproduktiewe lawaaimaak, “veg terug”-styl van politiek van die DA;
(3) die hoop uitspreek dat die gemelde ondersoek so gou as moontlik
afgehandel sal word sodat die nodige regstellende optrede so
spoedig moontlik kan plaasvind. (Translation of Afrikaans motion without notice follows.)
That the Council -
(1) once again confirms its absolute commitment to the supremacy of the law and the independence of the judiciary as a cornerstone of our constitutional democracy, and therefore thanks the Minister for Safety and Security -
(a) for his immediate and absolutely unconditional undertaking,
following discussions with a delegation from the New National
Party, arising from the unfortunate incident of the arrest of
magistrate Hendrik van der Walt from Groblersdal, that there
will be absolutely no interference with any judicial officer,
including possible arrest, as a result of anything which a
judicial officer might do in his or her capacity as a judicial
officer;
(b) for his appointment of a high-level investigation into the
entire matter under the leadership of the National Head of
Detectives, Commissioner Johan de Beer;
(2) is of the opinion that the swift and decisive action of the Minister is proof of the Government’s commitment to the supremacy of the law and the independence of the judiciary and demonstrates the value of the constructive solutions-oriented practice of politics by the New NP and the ANC, as opposed to the futility of the destructive, negative, sensation-seeking, counterproductive, noisy, ``fight-back’’ style of politics of the DA;
(3) expresses the hope that the aforementioned investigation will be completed as soon as possible so that the necessary corrective action can be taken as quickly as possible.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MEDIUM-TERM BUDGET POLICY STATEMENT
(Draft Resolution)
Ms R P MASHANGOANE: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) welcomes the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement by the Minister of Finance, Trevor Manuel;
(2) commends the Minister for the increase in expenditure on social development which targets the poor and enhances their social protection; and
(3) believes that the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement reaffirms the view that the eradication of poverty through sustained and accelerated economic growth continues to remain the overriding priority of the ANC-led Government.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
PORTRAYAL OF PARTIES INVOLVED IN DOMESTIC VIOLENCE CASE IN TV PROGRAMME THIRD DEGREE
(Draft Resolution)
Rev M CHABAKU: Mr Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the council - (1) notes that -
(a) the television programme Third Degree showed cruelty meted out
to a wife and mother and her children on Saturday, 7 November
2003; and
(b) the faces of the beaten and humiliated wife and the starved
children were repeatedly and clearly shown whereas the husband
and father, who was the alleged perpetrator, had his face
blurred; and
(2) is of the opinion that it is sad that during this special focus on violence and cruelty to women and children, the victims are further exposed to the viewers while the man who allegedly made them eat spoiled pig’s food and sjamboked the mother, was protected from identification; and
(3) condemns this selective justice and trusts that relevant bodies will take up this resolution for attention. Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
GENERAL INTELLIGENCE LAWS AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Chairperson and hon members, this Bill is a technical measure. Nothing controversial is being proposed in these amendments. The Bill seeks to amend the National Strategic Intelligence Act, 1994; the Intelligence Services Oversight Act, 1994; the Intelligence Services Act, 2002; and the Electronic Communications Security (Pty) Ltd Act, 2002.
The National Strategic Intelligence Act, 1994, and the Intelligence Services Oversight Act, 1994, were amended in 2002, whilst the Intelligence Services Act, 2002, and the Electronic Communications Security (Pty) Ltd Act, 2002, were passed in that year.
In general, the Bill seeks to amend the said Acts so as to eliminate inconsistencies in the provisions of the Acts and also to effect certain consequential amendments as a result of the adoption by Parliament of the Regulation of Interception of Communications and Provision of Communication- Related Information Act, 2002.
In this Bill, the object of the amendments proposed to the National Strategic Intelligence Act is to make provision for the establishment of a panel of appeal to assist the Minister in the consideration of appeals lodged in terms of the said Act.
The amendments proposed to the Intelligence Services Oversight Act are to regulate the oversight of the Office for Interception Centres and to provide for the secondment of members of the Departments of Safety and Security and of Defence to the Office of the Inspector-General.
The amendments proposed to the Intelligence Services Act, 2002, are to clarify the lines of accountability of the Intelligence Services Council on conditions of service, and to align the provisions of this Act with the provisions of the Public Finance Management Act with respect to the acquisition of immovable property by the Minister for Intelligence.
The amendments proposed to the Electronic Communications Security (Pty) Ltd Act, 2002, are to extend the composition of the board of directors by increasing the number of nonexecutive directors; to restrict the publication of certain regulations; and to ensure that the regulations that deal with security matters are not published in the Gazette.
With these amendments, we are confident that the legal framework of the intelligence services and other entities under the Minister for Intelligence are tight enough to meet the national security challenges facing most nations today. I thank you. [Applause.]
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Thank you, Chairperson. [Interjections.] Members, I am humbled by your acknowledgement. Let me start by thanking the Deputy Minister for outlining the purpose of these amendments. I will make sure that I do not repeat some of the critical points he touched on. So I will simply avoid making repetitions and deal with the other issues.
As rightly said, this Parliament in the year 2002 effected amendments to two of the four Bills we are amending today. After looking at what used to happen in the past, we deemed it fit and proper to effect and come up with these kinds of amendments in this legislation.
As we are aware, intelligence has a critical role to play in identifying threats, potential threats and opportunities for our democratic dispensation. Our belief is that the role of the National Intelligence Agency is to gather, collect and evaluate information that pertains to the national security of the state and its citizenry.
Another role of the intelligence services is to act in the interests of the country as a whole, unlike in the past when the intelligence was used vehemently against freedom fighters and the popular resistance of the people. Our policy dictates that national intelligence should respect the rights of all South Africans and that it needs to engage in lawful activities.
The task of transforming the intelligence apparatus in our country has come a long way. For intelligence to be of value, it must have, amongst other things, the following attributes: accuracy, relevance and predictive powers. Our transformed intelligence community has all the basic features common to intelligence services worldwide.
As you are aware, the NIA and the SA Secret Service have a quasi-medical aid scheme which is funded by the state and not its members. It is for this reason that we debated in terms of this Bill and unanimously agreed that the personnel electronic communications security, commonly called Comsec - join the NIA medical aid scheme which is operational. However, Comsec is exempted from the Medical Schemes Act, but Comsec members, like those of the NIA, will comply with the principles and objectives of the Medical Schemes Act.
As you are fully aware, the new Medical Schemes Act makes full disclosure by members compulsory. Such disclosures will expose the NIA and its undercover agents. It is for this reason that the negotiations that have been entered into by the NIA and the Department of Health will come up with regulations addressing this matter. The NIA will have its own laws, but such laws will not be excluded from this principle of equity.
We must accelerate transformation in the National Intelligence Agency and turn it into an institution whose personnel reflect the demographics of the country as a whole. The mission of intelligence is to conduct security intelligence within the borders of the Republic of South Africa in order to protect the Constitution.
Members of the committee effected those amendments, and those amendments were accepted by the department with broad smiles. The department said that if they had money, they were going to throw a braai for our committee because we identified issues that they could not identify. That is my committee.
Having said all that, Chairperson, I put this Bill before you, following what my hon Minister has just said to this august House, but listen to the hon Maloyi, the hon Kondlo, the hon Matthee and the hon Lever, because you will learn a lot. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Mnr P A MATTHEE: Mnr die Voorsitter, die agb Adjunkminister en ook die agb voorsitter van ons komitee het reeds met die tegniese gedeeltes gehandel - veral die Adjunkminister - en dit baie duidelik uitgespel en ek sal daarom glad nie daarna verwys om dit te herhaal nie, behalwe om te sê dat belangrike wysigings wat broodnodig was in hierdie wetgewing vervat is en van die Nuwe NP se kant steun ons dit ten volle.
Ek wil graag verwys na die persone, ons mense, die personeel en die agente, wat in die geheim en sonder dat enigiemand, behalwe ‘n paar baie uitgesoekte mense weet, goeie werk doen. Dit is absoluut noodsaaklike werk waarvan so min van ons bewus is. Wanneer ons veilig in die nag gaan slaap, dan is hierdie mense aan die werk, waaroor ook al, baie keer onder baie moeilike en selfs lewensgevaarlike omstandighede. Ek wil vandag hulde bring aan elkeen van hulle en van ons kant van hierdie Raad sê ons waardeer die baie harde werk wat hulle doen, soms onder moeilike omstandighede.
Ek het die voorreg gehad om vir ‘n hele tyd lank gedurende die eerste jare van ons demokrasie saam met onder andere die agb Adjunkminister te dien in die Gesamentlike Staande Komitee oor Intelligensie. Die Adjunkminister sal onthou hoeveel moeilike en sensitiewe aangeleenthede ons gedurende daardie eerste jare in daardie komitee moes hanteer.
Die vertroue in mekaar se integriteit wanneer ‘n mens met daardie tipe sake werk, wat dikwels baie plofbaar is, het nie maar net vanself gekom nie, soos die Adjunkminister sal onthou. Maar ons het dit reggekry om onder die leiding van uitstekende voorsitters, aan wie ek ook wil hulde bring - die huidige Minister Lindiwe Sisulu, die huidige Adjunkminister van Binnelandse Sake, Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula, asook die huidige voorsitter, dr Cwele - soos wat ons meer en meer moeilike en sensitiewe aangeleenthede hanteer het, vertroue in mekaar se integriteit te ontwikkel, sodat dit amper tasbaar gegroei het.
Die President het ook in sy repliek Dinsdag verwys na daardie moeilike situasies, as ons terugkyk oor die 10 jaar van ons demokrasie, wat ons moes hanteer. Dit is met dankbaarheid dat ons vandag daarna kan terugkyk en kan sien hoe ons dit reggekry het om, sonder dat dit enigsins publisiteit gekry het, altyd ‘n oplossing te vind in die beste belang van al die burgers van ons land en van die toekoms van Suid-Afrika.
Ek wil vandag ook hulde bring aan ons kollegas wat steeds in daardie komitee dien, wat baie harde werk doen en wat nie, soos wat ons ander kan doen, verklarings uitreik oor die werk wat hulle doen, en dit in die openbaar doen nie, want dis altyd belangrik vir ‘n politikus. So, ek wil ook vandag aan elkeen van hulle hulde bring.
Ek dank u met die woorde dat ons hierdie wetgewing steun. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, the hon Deputy Minister as well as the hon chairperson of our committee have already dealt with the technical parts - especially the Deputy Minister - and made it very clear and I would therefore not refer to it at all and so repeat it, except to say that important amendments that were absolutely necessary were entrenched in this legislation and from the New NP’s side, we fully support it.
I would like to refer to the people, our people, the personnel and the agents, who in secret and without anybody knowing, apart from a few selected persons, did exceptional work. This is absolutely essential work that very few of us are aware of. When we are safely tucked into our beds at night, these people are hard at work, wherever, quite often under very difficult and even life-threatening circumstances. I would like to pay tribute to every one of them today and from our side, that this Council, say that we appreciate the very hard work they are doing, often under difficult circumstances.
I had the privilege for quite a while during the first years of our democracy to serve with, inter alia, the hon Deputy Minister on the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence. The Deputy Minister might remember how many difficult and sensitive matters we had to deal with in this committee during those first years.
The trust in one another’s integrity when one deals with those types of matters, that are often very volatile, did not just happen automatically, as the Deputy Minister will remember. But we managed to, under the guidance of exceptional chairpersons, whom I would also like to pay tribute to - the current Minister Lindiwe Sisulu, the current Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula, as well as the current chairperson, Dr Cwele - as we dealt with increasingly more difficult and sensitive matters, trust in one another’s integrity developed, so that it increased almost tangibly.
The President also referred in his reply on Tuesday to those difficult situations, as we look back on the 10 years of our democracy, that we had to deal with. It is with gratitude that we may look back at it today and see how we managed to, without getting any publicity, always find a solution in the best interests of all the citizens of our country and the future of South Africa.
I would also like to pay tribute today to our colleagues who are still serving on that committee, who are doing very hard work and who cannot, like the rest of us, issue statements regarding the work they are doing, and this in public, because it is always very important for a politician. So, I would also like to pay tribute to every one of them.
I thank you with the words that we support this legislation. [Applause.]]
Mr P D N MALOYI: Thank you, Chair. Chairperson, I had a discussion with the chairperson of the select committee as usual; that was yesterday at 14:35. We agreed and he assured me that for the first time in this House I would be given no less than 10 minutes. Unfortunately, when I arrived here my speaking time was six minutes. So I was forced to adjust my speech. So I’m going to try my best to speak in six minutes. I see it is ten to now. Hopefully by three o’clock I would have done my work in this House. [Laughter.]
The National Strategic Intelligence Act of 1994, as amended in 2002, empowers members of the national intelligence structures to conduct security-screening investigations to determine the security competence of persons who are employed by or applicants to an organ of state.
When we were briefed by the department, one of the key things which they mentioned to our committee - listen carefully, this is classified information - was that our intelligence structures didn’t have the necessary resources, both human and material resources, to enable them to perform what is expected of them in terms of section 2A. They proposed an amendment which, as a committee, we agreed on, namely that it would be necessary for us to allow the Minister to have the discretion as to who should be investigated in this matter. Because if you are going to investigate everybody you are going to need a lot of resources, which we don’t have.
But let me also share this information with you. I have assured the department and my committee that I’m going to discuss this with the chairperson of the finance committee and the chairperson of the budget committee, in order to ensure that we give this department enough resources to perform its constitutional obligations. I was with the chairperson of the finance committee this morning. He told me we would meet at half past three. So I’ll be rushing to that meeting immediately after this debate to continue that particular discussion. [Laughter.]
As a committee we agreed that it was necessary for us to give the Minister that particular discretion. The Minister will then draw up regulations which will guide the national intelligence structures as to who is supposed to be screened, etc. Basically I think what we will focus on are sensitive areas, such as the office of the Minister, the office of the director- general and so forth. I hope I’ve lectured these members very well. [Interjections.] Lovely! [Laughter.]
I think the Minister did speak about the Intelligence Services Act. I think the amendments there are fairly technical. I’m not going to talk much about that, because I’m left with two minutes only. This section - just to make sure that every member of this House understands what we are talking about
- is creating an administrative nightmare in the department. It stipulates that every transaction involving immovable property, sale of old cameras, computers, hiring of property, etc must be approved by the Minister. We don’t think - and we think that you’ll agree with us - that the Minister should be bogged down with all those petty things. We think it is necessary for the Minister to deal with political issues and issues that need the intervention of the Minister. But regarding those minor administrative issues: let the director-general and the administrative staff deal with those things. So this is what we wanted to do with this particular amendment. And I know that Mr Raju, a member of the DA, will agree with us that this amendment is necessary. We are therefore presenting all these amendments before you, hon members, to adopt them and agree with us. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, when I prepared for this debate I had a premonition that this situation that I find myself in might occur. In listening to the hon Deputy Minister’s speech I thought I might have two areas to deal with, which his comprehensive speech didn’t touch on, namely the medical aid for Comsec and section 70 of the Public Finance Management Act. But then on hearing the hon Kgoshi Mokoena dealing with medical aid, I thought that I would be left with one area to deal with. Then on hearing the hon Maloyi dealing with section 70 of the Public Finance Management Act, all that is therefore left for me to say, without using my time simply for the purpose of using it, is that the DA supports these amendments in this Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms N C KONDLO: Hayi, Sihlalo, andizi kulandela ela khondo. [No, Chairperson, I am not going to go that route.]
Chairperson, hon members, the ANC-led Government has, in just less than 10 years, been able to change the lives of ordinary people for the better. All of us, across our political backgrounds, acknowledge this fact, even though some political parties are not bold enough to say this publicly.
When we speak of the successes of the ANC-led Government, correctly so, our focus is always on tangible deliveries such as equity in social grants and more access to housing, to water, the construction of roads and the building of schools and clinics.
Equally, and as one speaker said in this House, there are those freedoms that our people enjoy which cannot be quantified, such as human dignity. One of the most fundamental freedoms that the majority of South Africans enjoy today is the freedom from the repression of the security forces under the leadership of the apartheid regime. This and the work of these forces were characterised by secrecy, exclusivity, being above the law and, amongst other things, special relationships between superiors and subordinates.
These structures used criminals and gangsters to abduct, maim and kill our comrades. Sizwe Kondile, Eric Ntonga, the Mxenges, the “Cradock four”, Neil Aggett, Bathandwa Ndondo and many others are examples of these atrocities. This they did with the backing of the law.
Since the negotiations and the 1994 breakthrough, we have seen how the ANC has led our country into a new intelligence dispensation through laws that have been passed by Parliament. Central to all these laws remain the security, the development and the prosperity of our country, as the vision of the Ministry indicates. More importantly, these laws have been made to ensure a credible and accountable service to our people.
The General Intelligence Laws Amendment Bill in front of us is about consolidating the above. I won’t get into the details of the specific amendments to the four laws that have been referred to, as all the speakers before me have touched on them.
Xa ndigqibezela, inye into endifuna ukuthetha ngayo: kukunqongophala kwesakhono kweli sebe sokuqinisekisa ukuba ukuphononongwa kwabantu abaqeshwa nguRhulumente kuyenziwa. Sithi ke, lo Mthetho uYilwayo uthi amasebe, ngokweentloko zawo, mayibe ngawo achongayo imisebenzi enokuthi ifanele ukuphononongwa. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[In conclusion, there is one point I want to make: there is a lack of capacity in this department to ensure that the screening of people entering the Government’s employ takes place. Therefore, this Bill provides that departmental heads be the ones who decide which jobs require screening.
Yes, this scenario is acceptable in the circumstances, but there is a need to ensure that more resources are allocated to this department for this purpose, because some managers, because they lack this intelligence expertise, might regard some of these areas as “risk personnel” when they are not necessarily risk personnel areas, and, in so doing, information that should not be leaked to the public, for purposes best known to all of us, would then be leaked to the public.
Kuba buhlungu, maxa wambi, xa kudandalaziswa umsebenzi weli candelo nezinto obe unokucinga okokuba bezingafanele kuvela naphi na, nanjani na. Uthi wakumamela uqonde okokuba ziya benzakalisa abanye abantu kuba ngokuthetheka kwazo naphina, nanjani na, abantu bayazigqibela.
Ndenza isicelo ke sokuba abasebenzi abajongene nale micimbi kweli sebe lokuphononongwa kwabantu mabalugcine kubo olu lwazi. Loo nto ke ithethe ukuthi kufanele sibe nabasebenzi eneneni abaluphumelelayo ngokungenaxhala olu phononongo, khon’ ukuze nesebe eli lifumane intlonipho kwaye lithembeke njengoko inzondelelo yalo isithi:
… to develop and nurture a professional and dedicated workforce that is beyond reproach.
Ngala mazwi ambalwa siyazixhasa ezi zihlomelo, ngelithi isigunyaziso seli sebe siza kuqinisekiseka ngakumbi ukuba njengoko siqhuba siyiguqula le mithetho, iza kuqinisekisa ukuba sinee”intelligence structures that are credible, that will do their work without any fear of contradiction”. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[It pains one, on certain occasions, when the kind of work of this department, that one would consider as sensitive, is put in the public arena. On such occasions you get the feeling that divulging certain information is hurting the image of certain people because people out there tend to draw their own conclusions on the basis of this information.
I appeal, therefore, that the people responsible for security clearance checks should be sworn to silence. This means, really, that we must have people who have passed this security clearance, so that the department could be accorded the respect it deserves and be trusted, in accordance with its mission statement, which is:
… to develop and nurture a professional and dedicated workforce that is beyond reproach.
With these few words we support these amendments because, as we continue to amend these laws, we will make sure that we have “intelligence structures that are credible, that will do their work without any fear of contradiction. [Applause.]]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Chairperson and hon members, I wish to express my gratitude for the all-party support which has been given to these amendments.
This emphasises a tradition which we have managed to observe up to now in our country, that all intelligence matters are national matters and are not governed by party-political considerations. This is very crucial in the life of any nation, and I’m happy that in our discussions here this afternoon this has obviously been the major criterion. Let us hope that we will continue to have a broad national policy on intelligence matters because that will, in fact, reflect whether or not we are succeeding in our major task of building a new nation. Thank you, Sir. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill, subject to proposed amendments, agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
The Council adjourned at 15:01. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
WEDNESDAY, 12 NOVEMBER 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Assent by President in respect of Bills:
(1) Sectional Titles Amendment Bill [B 43 - 2003] - Act No 29 of
2003 (assented to and signed by President on 11 November 2003);
(2) Special Pensions Amendment Bill [B 3 - 2003] - Act No 30 of 2003
(assented to and signed by President on 7 November 2003);
NOTE: The name of the Act is the Special Pensions Second Amendment
Act, 2003.
(3) Unemployment Insurance Amendment Bill [B 35 - 2003] - Act No 32
of 2003 (assented to and signed by President on 11 November 2003);
and
(4) Government Employees Pension Law Amendment Bill [B 4B - 2003] -
Act No 35 of 2003 (assented to and signed by President on 7
November 2003).
- Bills passed by Houses - to be submitted to President for assent:
(1) Bills passed by National Assembly on 12 November 2003:
(i) Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill [B 57D - 2002] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
- Introduction of Bills:
(1) The Minister of Finance:
(i) Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B 69 - 2003] (National
Assembly - sec 77)
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Finance of
the National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging
Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on
12 November 2003.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bill may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
within three parliamentary working days.
National Council of Provinces:
- Messages from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills passed by Assembly and transmitted to Council:
(1) Bills passed by National Assembly on 12 November 2003 and
transmitted for concurrence:
(i) Social Assistance Bill [B 57B - 2003] (National Assembly -
sec 76)
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Social
Services of the National Council of Provinces.
(ii) Judicial Matters Second Amendment Bill [B 41B - 2003]
(National Assembly - sec 75)
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Security and
Constitutional Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.
- Referrals to committees of papers tabled:
The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
relevant committees as mentioned below:
(1) The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
Security and Constitutional Affairs:
Report and Financial Statements of the South African Human Rights
Commission for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 142-2003].
(2) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Local Government and Administration:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the South African
Management Development Institute (SAMDI) for 2001-2002,
including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements for 2001-2002 [RP 10-2003].
(b) Report of the Public Service Commission on the Evaluation
of Land Administration in the Eastern Cape for 2003 [RP 52-
2003].
(c) Report of the Public Service Commission on the Monitoring
and Evaluation System - Pilot Study in the Northern Cape for
2002 [RP 180-2002].
(d) Report and Financial Statements of State Information
Technology Agency (SITA) (Pty) Ltd. for 2002-2003, including
the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
for 2002-2003 [RP 69-2003].
(3) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Social Services:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Independent
Electoral Commission - Represented Political Parties' Fund for
2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 68-2003].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Social Relief Fund
for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 169-2003].
(c) Annual Financial Statements of the High School Vorentoe
Disaster Fund for 2002-2003, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP
176-2003].
(4) The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
Economic and Foreign Affairs:
Report and Financial Statements of the Companies and Intellectual
Property Registration Office (CIPRO) for 2002-2003, including the
Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2002-
2003 [RP 131-2003].
(5) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Finance for consideration and report:
(a) Convention between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the Government of the Federative Republic of Brazil
for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of
Fiscal Evasion in respect of Taxes on Income, tabled in terms
of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.
(b) Explanatory Memorandum on the Double Taxation Convention
between the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the
Federative Republic of Brazil for the Avoidance of Double
Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of
Taxes on Income.
(6) The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
Education and Recreation:
Report and Financial Statements of the Council on Higher Education
(CHE) for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General
on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 120-2003].
(7) The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on Land
and Environmental Affairs:
Final Report of South African Human Rights Commission on the
Inquiry into Human Rights Violations in Farming Communities -
August 2003.
THURSDAY, 13 NOVEMBER 2003
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Finance:
(a) Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement 2003 [RP 201-2003].
Referred to the Joint Budget Committee and the Portfolio Committee
on Finance for consideration in accordance with their respective
mandates.
(b) Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B 69 - 2003].
Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Finance for consideration
and report.
(c) Adjusted Estimates of National Expenditure 2003 [RP 202-2003],
which includes:
1. Memorandum on Vote No 1 - "The Presidency", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
2. Memorandum on Vote No 2 - "Parliament", Adjustments Estimates,
2003-2004;
3. Memorandum on Vote No 3 - "Foreign Affairs", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
4. Memorandum on Vote No 4 - "Home Affairs", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
5. Memorandum on Vote No 5 - "Provincial and Local Government",
Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
6. Memorandum on Vote No 6 - "Public Works", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
7. Memorandum on Vote No 7 - "Government Communications and
Information System", Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
8. Memorandum on Vote No 8 - "National Treasury", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
9. Memorandum on Vote No 9 - "Public Enterprises", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
10. Memorandum on Vote No 10 - "Public Service and
Administration", Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
11. Memorandum on Vote No 11 - "Public Service Commission",
Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
12. Memorandum on Vote No 12 - "South African Management
Development Institute", Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
13. Memorandum on Vote No 13 - "Statistics South Africa",
Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
14. Memorandum on Vote No 14 - "Arts and Culture", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
15. Memorandum on Vote No 15 - "Education", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
16. Memorandum on Vote No 16 - "Health", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
17. Memorandum on Vote No 17 - "Labour", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
18. Memorandum on Vote No 18 - "Science and Technology",
Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
19. Memorandum on Vote No 19 - "Social Development",
Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
20. Memorandum on Vote No 20 - "Sport and Recreation",
Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
21. Memorandum on Vote No 21 - "Correctional Services",
Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
22. Memorandum on Vote No 22 - "Defence", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
23. Memorandum on Vote No 23 - "Independent Complaints
Directorate", Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
24. Memorandum on Vote No 24 - "Justice and Constitutional
Development", Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
25. Memorandum on Vote No 25 - "Safety and Security",
Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
26. Memorandum on Vote No 26 - "Agriculture", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
27. Memorandum on Vote No 27 - "Communications", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
28. Memorandum on Vote No 28 - "Environmental Affairs and
Tourism", Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
29. Memorandum on Vote No 29 - "Housing", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
30. Memorandum on Vote No 30 - "Land Affairs", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
31. Memorandum on Vote No 31 - "Minerals and Energy",
Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
32. Memorandum on Vote No 32 - "Trade and Industry",
Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004;
33. Memorandum on Vote No 33 - "Transport", Adjustments
Estimates, 2003-2004;
34. Memorandum on Vote No 34 - "Water Affairs and Forestry",
Adjustments Estimates, 2003-2004.
Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Finance for consideration
and report.
- The Minister of Trade and Industry:
Report and Financial Statements of Technology for Women in Business
(TWIB) for 2003.
- The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:
Report of the South African Law Reform Commission for 2002-2003 [RP 192-
2003].
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Education:
Report and Financial Statements of the South African Council for
Educators (SACE) for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Independent
Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003.
- The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism:
Report and Financial Statements of the South African National Parks for
2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements for 2002-2003.
- The Minister of Communications: Report and Financial Statements of the Universal Service Agency for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Council of Provinces:
- Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the Firearms Control Amendment Bill [B 28B - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 12 November 2003:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the subject of the Firearms Control Amendment Bill [B 28B - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.