House of Assembly: Vol15 - WEDNESDAY 13 SEPTEMBER 1989
The Serjeant-at-Arms announced the Honourable Mr Chief Justice M M Corbett, who was received by members standing and, having taken his seat at the Table, administered the oath to the following members:
The Honourable the Chief Justice thereupon withdrew.
The meeting rose at
The House met at
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS—see col 22.
The Secretary read the following proclamation by the Acting State President, dated 30 August 1989, summoning Parliament to meet today.
F W DE KLERK,
Acting State President.
By order of the State President-in-Cabinet:
A J VLOK,
Minister of the Cabinet.
The Secretary intimated that the House would proceed to the election of a Chairman of the House.
Sir, I move:
It is my privilege to propose Dr Helgard van Rensburg as Chairman of the House. It can rightly be said that Dr Helgard van Rensburg has been groomed for this post. He has been Chairman of Committees for the past five years. He was a Whip for three years before becoming Chairman of Committees. It was there, for the first time, that I gained a real appreciation of his capacity for work, of his exceptionally clear and bright intellect, and I also came to know Helgard van Rensburg as a person. It can rightly be said of him that he is a people-person.
Hon members will appreciate that it means a very great deal to me as a Whip that Dr Helgard van Rensburg and I were Whips together. I believe he will also have a great appreciation for the tribulations experienced by us as Whips, who at all times have to intercede for our hon members with Mr Speaker. I am convinced that with this experience as Whip, and particulary as Chairman of Committees, he will be an outstanding success as Chairman of the House.
Dr Helgard van Rensburg was born in the shadow of the Sleeping Beauty at Riversdale. Allow me to say at once that the similarity ends right there! [Interjections.] He studied Law at the University of Stellenbosch, where he obtained the BA LL B degree at the end of 1950. In 1953 he graduated as a doctor of law in international law at the University of Leyden, with a thesis on the international status of South West Africa—quite significant in view of the circumstances in which South West Africa now finds itself.
He first practised as an advocate and then, in 1956, he returned to the town of his birth. There he practised as an attorney. He immediately became a leader in his community. He was mayor of Riversdale for more than eight years. There was not a council, association or committee in Riversdale, or in the Southern Cape, on which he did not play a leading role. He was a true community person and leader. He was also a cultural person and leader. As a cultural leader, he served for two years as chairman of the Landsraad van die Federasie van Rapportryerskorpse. He was also a holder of the Orde van die Vriend van die Voortrekkerbeweging. He was patron of the Riversdale Volkspelebeweging. It is no wonder that he was elected to the House of Assembly in 1974. Since taking his place in this Chamber, he has served on no fewer than 22 select committees. On nine of those committees he took the lead as chairman. This is indeed a remarkable achievement and evidence of a remarkable capacity for work.
He was a good sportsman in football, tennis and bowls, and always played in accordance with the rules of the game. He is married to Magda, and they have four children. Oupa Helgard van Rensburg has five grandchildren. To be a successful Chairman of the House, requires exceptional talents. Dr Helgard van Rensburg has received an ample quota of these. His strong personality, his friendly yet decisive way of dealing with matters, his fairness and his sound judegment, make him pre-eminently qualified for this important and demanding task. He has already proved that he will perform his task with dignity and grace. I believe that he will continue to strive unceasingly in this House for the maintenance of Christian values and civilised norms, as well as for the respect and protection of the dignity of all. That is why we on this side of the House have confidence in him, and we propose that he take the Chair as Chairman of the House. Every well-meaning hon member wishes Dr Helgard van Rensburg a successful and productive term of office. May he enjoy good health. We on this side of the House have confidence in him, and we propose that he take the Chair as Chairman of the House.
Mr Secretary, as we have already heard from the hon the Chief Whip of the NP, the hon member for Mossel Bay has a long history of service as chairman of meetings. It began when he was elected mayor of the town of Riversdale, and has continued for a number of years in this House. He has rendered a great service here over the years, and has also demonstrated that he has a great love of and appreciation for Parliament and its institutions.
His legal training and his background make him an ideal choice for this office. His conduct in the Chair over the years has provided proof of the fact that he treats every hon member of this House and every party fairly, and that he is able to uphold the traditions of the House of Assembly.
It is expected of the incumbent of this office to preserve the dignity of this Place, to afford every hon member of this House an equal opportunity, to protect every hon member and to promote the right to freedom of speech. It is expected of a chairman to act in such a way that everyone will have an equal opportunity.
It is for this reason that I should like to second the motion of the hon the Chief Whip of the NP. We on this side of the House believe that the hon member for Mossel Bay will hold this office with dignity.
There being no other proposal, Dr H MJ van Rensburg was declared duly elected.
Mr Secretary, before I take the Chair of the House of Assembly, I should like to avail myself of this opportunity of thanking the hon members of the House of Assembly for the honour they have done me and the confidence they have placed in me by electing me to this responsible office.
†I am thoroughly aware of the high standards demanded by the Chair of its occupant as well as of my own shortcomings in this regard. I shall, however, endeavour with the co-operation and the assistance of all hon members of this House to maintain the dignity of this high office; to apply the rules, procedures, practices and conventions of this House impartially, fairly and reasonably; to uphold the rights and privileges of all hon members; and to enhance the prestige and the calling of this House in the best traditions of Parliament.
*I am fully aware of the fact that I cannot lay claim to the esteem, respect and co-operation of hon members, but that I shall have to earn this. It will be a challenge and privilege for me to strive to do so in prayerful supplication to the triune God for the necessary enlightenment and guidance in this regard.
Whereupon Dr H M J van Rensburg was conducted to the Chair by his proposer and seconder.
Mr Chairman, it is my pleasant task, on behalf of the hon members on this side of the House, to congratulate you most heartily on your election as Chairman. We have observed you in the Chair over the years and have seen you develop into an extremely competent Chairman. You occupy the Chair with dignity and lend authority to the position of Chairman. It is extremely important for debates in a House such as this one that there should be confidence in the Chair. In the firm, yet fair and equitable way in which you deal with matters, you succeed in inspiring confidence. You are a worthy incumbent of the Chair and I should like to congratulate you most sincerely on behalf of all the hon members.
†I would like to assure you of our co-operation and support. We will do our utmost to make your task as easy as possible and to uphold the dignity of this House. We trust that your term of office will be a happy and rewarding experience.
Mr Chairman, permit me, in extending my hearty congratulations to you on behalf of this side of the House on your nomination as Chairman, to associate myself most sincerely with the words of welcome that have been conveyed to you here. I associate myself with the words of appreciation for your conduct in the past. You have proved yourself to be a good chairman. You have proved yourself able to keep your head under difficult circumstances and under pressure from certain quarters of the House. You are blessed with a very fine voice with which to maintain order, and with good judgement. We want to wish you much success and everything of the best in this position. On behalf of our side of the House, I want to extend to you our hearty co-operation and good wishes.
Mr Chairman, we in these benches would also like to associate our side of the House with the words of congratulation that have already been extended to you on your appointment.
We have known you for many years, we are aware of your exceptional experience and background which equips you so eminently for this new task, and we extend our wholehearted congratulations to you. We are quite willing to submit ourselves to your discipline because we know full well that it is in your character and your nature to treat parties like ours very fairly, with understanding and compassion.
We noted that the hon member for Kimberley South said that on the sports field you always played in accordance with the rules, and we trust that we will continue to experience this. We look forward to a lengthy period of productive debate under your authority, and promise never to give you any more trouble than is really unavoidable. [Interjections.]
Order! I should like to thank the hon the Leader of the House, the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition and the hon member for Parktown for the friendly words of congratulation they have addressed to me upon my election.
Rest assured that I sincerely appreciate it. As spokesmen of their respective parties, they have also committed themselves and their parties to co-operating with me in pursuit of those objectives which I have mentioned.
†This augurs well for the effective and constructive functioning of this House in the interest of the country and all its peoples. For this I am sincerely and deeply indebted to all hon members.
The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE announced that in terms of section 58 read with section 7(1)(b) of the Constitution the House would designate members of the electoral college for the election of a State President and a Speaker.
In terms of section 58 read with section 7(1)(c) of the Constitution the Chairman requested nominated and indirectly elected members of the House to leave the Chamber.
Whereupon the hon members concerned withdrew.
Mr Chairman, I move:
Mr Chairman, I move as an amendment:
Question put: That all the names proposed to be omitted stand as part of the Question.
The House divided:
AYES—90: Ackermann, C; Alant, T G; Badenhorst, C J W; Bartlett, G S; Bekker, H J; Blaas, A; Bosman, J F; Botha, C J van R; Botha, R F; Brazelle, J A; Breytenbach, W N; Camerer, S M; Christophers, D; Clase, P J; Cloete, A C; Coetsee, H J; Coetzer, P W; De Beer, S J; De Jager, A J; De Jager, C L; De Villiers, D J; Delport, J T; Du Plessis, B J; Durr, K D S; Farrell, P J; Fick, L H; Fismer, C L; Fourie, A; Geldenhuys, B L; Gunning, T; Heyns, J H; Jacobsz, F P; Jooste, J A; Jordaan, A L; King, R J; King, T J; Koornhof, N J J van R; Kotzé, G J; Kriel, H J; Kruger, T A P; Lemmer, J J; Louw, E van der M; Louw, E; Louw, I; Malan, M A de M; Malherbe, G J; Marais, G; Marais, J A; Marais, P G; Maré, P L; Maree, J W; Matthee, J C; Mentz, J H W; Meyer, A T; Meyer, R P; Myburgh, G B; Nel, W H; Niemann, J J; Oosthuizen, A J G; Oosthuizen, G C; Pretorius, I J; Pretorius, J F; Radue, R J; Retief, J L; Scheepers, J H L; Schnetler, J; Schoeman, E A; Smit, F P; Steenkamp, P J; Streicher, D M; Swanepoel, J J; Swanepoel, K D; Thompson, A G; Van der Merwe, C J; Van Deventer, F J; Van Heerden, F J; Van Niekerk, A I; Van Niekerk, W A; Van Wyk, J A; Venter, A A; Venter, E H; Viljoen, G van N; Vilonel, J J; Vlok, A J; Welgemoed, P J; Wessels, L.
Tellers: Blanche, J P I; Meyer, W D; Schoeman, S J; Smit, H A.
NOES—33: Andrew, K M; Carlisle, R V; Charlewood, C H; Cronjé, P C; De Beer, Z J; De Waal, L A; Eglin, C W; Ellis, M J; Engel, G C; Fuchs, L; Gastrow, P H P; Goodall, B B; Haswell, R F; Hulley, R R; Jordaan, J A; Leon, A J; Lorimer, R J; Malan, W C; Momberg, J H; Moorcroft, E K; Nel, W U; Rogers, R H D; Schwarz, H H; Smuts, M; Soal, P G; Tarr, M A; Trent, E W; Van der Merwe, S S; Van Eck, J; Walsh, J J; Worrall, D J.
Tellers: Dalling, D J; Burrows, R M.
Question affirmed and amendment dropped.
Main Question accordingly agreed to.
The House adjourned at
The Serjeant-at-Arms announced the Honourable Mr Chief Justice M M Corbett, who was received by members standing and, having taken his seat at the Table, administered the oath to the following members:
and administered the solemn affirmation to the following members:
The Honourable the Chief Justice thereupon withdrew.
The meeting rose at
The House met at
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS—see col 22.
The Secretary read the following proclamation by the Acting State President, dated 30 August 1989, summoning Parliament to meet today.
Given under my Hand and the Seal of the Republic of South Africa at Pretoria this Thirtieth day of August, One thousand Nine hundred and Eighty-nine.
F W DE KLERK, Acting State President.
By order of the State President-in-Cabinet: A J VLOK,
Minister of the Cabinet.
The Secretary intimated that the House would proceed to the election of a Chairman of the House.
Whereupon Mr J C Oosthuizen moved, seconded by Mr S K Louw: That Mr Philip Theophilus Sanders take the Chair of the House as Chairman of the House.
There being no other proposal, Mr P T Sanders was declared duly elected.
Mr Secretary, permit me to express my sincere thanks to this House for the confidence expressed in me. I appreciate it and I promise, by the grace of God, to do my best.
Permit me also to promise the hon the Chairman of the Ministers’ Council, the caucus and all hon members who have put their faith in me by designating me as Chairman, that I shall do everything in my power to make the activities of this House run smoothly.
Whereupon he was conducted to the Chair by his proposer and seconder.
Mr Chairman, it is a privilege for me to congratulate you on behalf of the House and to wish you everything of the best in the office you hold once again. I should like to place on record the fact that Mr Sanders has achieved a great deal and has made his contribution to a variety of institutions over the years.
He was chairman of the OFS Teachers’ Association from 1954 to 1959 and at present is honorary president of the OFS Teachers' Association. Since 1965 he has been chairman of the OFS Regional Education Board. He was a co-founder of Utasa—perhaps one should not bruit that abroad—and inter alia established schools in the following towns in the OFS: Trompsburg, Philippolis, Ladybrand, Jacobsdal, Harrismith and Petrusburg. Perhaps one can mention that the school at Trompsburg was named after him. He also made a contribution to the fact that for the first time since the establishment of this House a hostel for primary school children was built at the Oppermansgronde.
From 1964 to 1968 he was a member of the “Eerste Nasionale Unie-wye Onderwysstreekraad.” In 1952 he led the first deputation to Pretoria to the then Minister of Finance in order to obtain an increase in the pensions and allowances of our aged. At the time their allowance was R1,25 per month. He was the chairman and a founder member of the OFS Coloured Municipal Association.
Two residential areas, Sandersville at Heilbron and Sandershoogte at Jacobsdal, were named after him out of gratitude. He is a member of the ad hoc committee for the OFS. The Philip Sanders Recreation Resort in the Orange Free State was named after him. In 1963 he was the first Coloured person to obtain full property rights in the Orange Free State. I think that is important historically so that people can know that we were deprived of what we had had, and that he began to get it back for the people of the Free State.
In 1963 he established the first political party, the Federal People’s Party in the Orange Free State—and probably also contributed to the downfall of the party. [Interjections.] From 1959 to 1964 he served on the Union Council. From 1969 to 1975 he was the first chairman of the Coloured Persons’ Representative Council. Something on which he deserves to be congratulated is his impartiality. We remember, however, that he once voted against us in that council and that in addition we lost a court case against him! [Interjections.]
He served on the first President’s Council from 1981 to 1984 and from 1978 to 1980 he served on the Cabinet Committee of the late Mr Vorster. He was elected unopposed in both elections, in 1969 and in 1975. He was the first Coloured presiding officer of a mixed extended standing committee of the tricameral Parliament in 1988. [Interjections.] That was certainly an historic event. He was also the first chairman of the House of Representatives from 1984 to 1989. In addition he is the former National Vice-Chairman of the Labour Party of South Africa. Since 1983 he has been the regional chairman of the Labour Party in the OFS. At present he is the MP for Eastern Free State and “Speaker” of the House of Representatives.
He was appointed as the first Coloured justice of the peace in the OFS. That must be chronicled so that people can see how much progress we have made. From 1964 to 1967 he served on the first Regional Welfare Board.
Perhaps his finest achievement is that he represented the OFS in soccer. [Interjections.]
He has visited America, England, Germany, Belgium and the Ivory Coast and serves on numerous local bodies.
Sir, I am sure that you are happy, just as we are. Despite the fact that we are here, we express the hope that this is the last time that he will be elected to this office in a separate House. We hope that by the end of these five years he will take his rightful place in the new dispensation with us and that under his leadership in this House, we shall make a contribution to the establishment of a new order, a new country, in which everyone will be South Africans. [Interjections.]
Mr Chairman, the DRP would like to congratulate you on your election as Chairman. We found it interesting to hear about your political history and the mark you have made in our community, and I am sure that in years to come our children will talk about what Philip Sanders did for the Coloured community. [Interjections.] We want to give you the assurance that you will have our support and we ask you to continue in the way in which you have served us during the past five years.
Mr Chairman, on behalf of the UDP I want to endorse the congratulations of the previous two hon members. The hon the Chairman and I have come a long way together in this dispensation of separate politics, and I want to express the hope that we shall not end up in a new future order in which we shall have to elect you in a separate situation. Congratulations once again. Hon members on this side of the House will co-operate in sessions in which the hon the Chairman is the presiding officer.
Mr Chairman,… [Interjections.]… Hon members must please behave themselves. [Interjections.] On behalf of the FPI wish the hon the Chairman the best of luck and I am very glad that he was re-elected as Chairman. For the past four years he was an honest man and took no sides and took nothing from anybody. I wish him all the best and I would like all parties represented in Parliament to behave and to help one another. [Interjections.]
Order! I appreciate the sentiments of all the hon members and I want to tell the hon the Chairman of the Ministers’ Council that he played a considerable part in bringing about all the things he said about me. I want to cite only one incident to hon members, and I trust it will be placed on record.
The hostel at Oppermansgronde was the first hostel in South Africa to be built for a primary school for Coloureds. I was a member of the old Federal Party at the time, and our hon the Chairman of the Ministers’ Council was the leader of the LP. He was also entrusted with education. The hon the Chairman of the Ministers’ Council is still just as he was then: Once he has put his foot down, nothing can move him. After visiting the Oppermansgronde and acquainting himself with the circumstances there— the deputy director at the time was Mr Eddie Bydell—he simply put his foot down and said that a hostel should be built there. For the first time in history a hostel was built for a primary school in a rural area. It exists thanks to the hon the Chairman of the Ministers’ Council. I want to thank him sincerely for that. Had he not put his foot down at the time and said that there was to be a hostel, it would not have been there today. My thanks to him, in appreciation. [Interjections.]
The Chairman announced that in terms of sections 7 (1) (b) and 58 of the Constitution the House would designate the members of the electoral college for the election of a State President and a Speaker.
Mr Chairman, I move:
Agreed to.
The House adjourned at
The Serjeant-at-Arms announced the Honourable Chief Justice M M Corbett who was received by members standing and, having taken his seat at the Table, administered the solemn affirmation to the following members:
The Honourable the Chief Justice thereupon withdrew.
The meeting rose at
The House met at
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS—see col 22.
The Secretary read the following proclamation by the Acting State President, dated 30 August 1989, summoning Parliament to meet today:
The Secretary intimated that the House would proceed to the election of a Chairman of the House.
Sir, it is a very great privilege for me to move:
I second the motion.
Hear, hear!
There being no other proposal, Mr S Abram was declared duly elected.
Sir, I accept the nomination in all humility. May I say a few words at this stage before I take the Chair?
In the first place I should like to thank the hon member for North Western Transvaal, as well as the hon member for Arena Park, most sincerely for the confidence they have in me.
†I should like to say that I am humbled at the honour being bestowed on me. I have in the past been the occupant of the Chair, and I tried my utmost to uphold the rules, traditions and conventions of Parliament. I undertake to act in the same way in future.
I would be failing in my duty, however, were I not to make brief reference to the fact that in the past the office of Chairman of the House has been subjected to various forms of political baiting and manoeuvring. I trust that we will keep the office of the presiding officer out of that particular arena. My political affiliations are known; I am affiliated to the PPSA, and I trust that this was in the mind of the hon member for North Western Transvaal when he decided to propose me.
I accept this position in all humility, and I will do my utmost to uphold the dignity of this House. I also assure all hon members that in whatever I do from the Chair, I will be guided by convention and by the Rules and that I will give a hearing to each and every hon member of this House; they will enjoy the protection of the Chair as they have done in the past under my chairmanship.
Whereupon Mr S Abram was conducted to the Chair by his proposer and seconder.
Order! Before we proceed, could we all rise for a minute’s silence in honour of those who were killed in the pre-election violence, particularly here in the Western Cape.
Mr Chairman, I should like to associate myself with the sentiments expressed by you and to congratulate you on assuming this high office in the House of Delegates. Your name is mentioned as being a representative of the Indian community because the manner in which you have chaired meetings not only in this Chamber, but also in the central debating chamber as well as in the provincial council, has added lustre to the proceedings and all of us who were present at those meetings agree with those sentiments.
Hear, hear!
Through the manner in which you have conducted these meetings you have enriched our society and enriched the proceedings at these meetings. I have taken note of what you said and I also remember Mr Speaker saying— when he addressed us in this Chamber—that it is the responsibility of the Chairman and the Speaker to look after the small people and to ensure that they are not knocked about in the hurly-burly of debate, and that they too have the opportunity of making the optimum contribution in this Chamber.
I have no doubt that you will be able to do that and that you will bring credit to this office, and I want to wish you well on behalf of my hon colleagues on this side of the House.
Mr Chairman, I should also like to place on record our congratulations to you as expressed by the hon Chairman of the Ministers’ Council. There is no doubt that the very fact that your election has been unanimous is due to the experience we have had with you in the Chair. You have quite ably fulfilled the role and the purpose of the Chairman of the House.
The Chairman of this House—who is actually the Speaker of this House—is a symbol of impartiality and unity and it is his responsibility to uphold the norms, traditions, standards and values which have been developed over the years in Parliament.
We also recognise that during the short period in which you have occupied this illustrious position no-one—neither present nor past hon members of this House—can have reason to be displeased with your performance.
There is also the sentiment which the hon Chairman of the Ministers’ Council expressed that by the manner in which you performed in presiding over the Extended Public Committee on Provincial affairs: Natal and even at the extended public committees, you earned the respect of the hon members not only of this House, but also of the other Houses.
I want to remind hon members that in 1984 the Chairman of the House was also elected unanimously. The very fact that in spite of the turbulence we experienced, we can come here today, putting aside all our differences, and allow sound judgement to prevail, in my opinion sets the tone and sets the stage for what our community expects us to do during this session of Parliament.
Mr Chairman, may I, on behalf of the DP, also congratulate you on your appointment. I do so knowing full well that your appointment was done on the basis of merit. We appreciate that your appointment was a unanimous choice of all hon members in this House.
In your remarks earlier on you touched on the dignity and the image of this House. I believe that in this, the first meeting of this Chamber, the issues you have raised are very important ones. It is my humble view that if there was one single item or one single factor which kept people away from the polls, it was the debacle that we have experienced in this Chamber over the last five years. That was precisely because some of us were not concerned about the image, the integrity and the status of this House. I believe that your appointment will in fact go a long way to assuage the feelings of the community at the present time.
There is something else. I believe that a new spirit has been born, a spirit which will in fact benefit the entire community. The fact that all of us can agree on the appointment of an official in this Chamber, on the basis of merit and nothing else, is something which will do all of us proud and which will bring honour to each and every one of us. My plea to my colleagues in this Chamber this afternoon is that this is something which we should keep in mind and which we should consider to be of paramount importance, namely that in any future appointment we should appoint people to positions on the basis of merit, not on any other basis.
May I conclude by saying that you will get the full co-operation of members of the DP in the fulfilment of your duties in this Chamber, as indeed you had our co-operation in the previous Parliament.
Mr Chairman, it is my pleasant privilege to congratulate you on your election as Chairman for the second time. We are quite sure that you will carry out your task with dedication, honesty and impartiality, as you did in the past. A characteristic of this afternoon’s election is the fact that you were undoubtedly elected unanimously and I hope that in future all our proceedings in this House will be approached in the same spirit. Mr Chairman, once again accept my sincere congratulations and everything of the best for the future.
Order! I want to thank hon members for the sentiments expressed.
The Chairman informed the House that pursuant to Notice No 1880 published in the Government Gazette on 30 August 1989, the nomination and election of a State President and a Speaker of Parliament would take place at 10h00 tomorrow.
The Chairman further announced that in terms of sections 7(1)(b) and 58 of the Constitution the House would designate the members of the electoral college for the election of a State President and a Speaker.
In terms of sections 7 (1) (c) and 58 of the Constitution the Chairman requested nominated and indirectly elected members of the House to leave the Chamber.
Whereupon the members concerned withdrew.
Mr Chairman, I move:
Agreed to.
The House adjourned at
Papers:
General Affairs:
1. Mr Speaker: