from Jessie J. Wise, teacher, who forfeited her pension rights through failing to register her name in accordance with provisions of Act No. 31 of 1910 (Natal), for relief.

from R. J. Jefferies, for an increase of pension.

from landowners and farmers in Alexandria and Bathurst, for construction of a railway from Alexandria to a point on the Graham’s Town-Port Alfred line.

from inhabitants of Port Elizabeth, for legislation providing for the Direct Popular Veto.

Papers relating to grants of land.

These papers were referred to the Select Committee on Waste Lands.

Statements of estimated Revenue and Expenditure of the South African Railways and Harbours for 1913-14, with memorandum relating to the financial results of working during 1909 to 1913 inclusive.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether a report has been made to the Railway Administration concerning a proposal to run a motor service between Mooi River, Riet Vlei, and Greytown, Natal, and, if so, whether he will lay such report on the Table of the House?

The answer to this question is in the negative.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs: (1) Whether the balance to the credit of the Public Service Guarantee Fund (Cape) for 1909 was £23,821 6s. 3d.; (2) whether contributions from the staff have not been discontinued; (3) whether the fund is still in existence, and, if so, whether it still serves its original purpose; and (4) if the fund is no longer in existence, how has the balance been disposed of?

The replies to the hon. member’s question are as follows: (1) Yes, at 31st December, 1909. (2) Contributions from the staff have been discontinued. (3) The fund has been abolished. (4) The balance was transferred to the Public Debt Commissioners for the redemption of public debt—vide Act No. 38 of 1913.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs: (1) Whether the limit of weight for sample packets for the United Kingdom, British Possessions (except the Commonwealth of Australia), and non-Postal Union countries is 5 lb., and whether the limit for other countries is 12 oz.; (2) whether this means that sample packets which weigh more than 12 oz. must be sent to these other countries by parcel post at the rate of 2s. per lb., 2s. 6d. for 2 lbs., etc., while at the sample rate, which is ½d. for 2 oz., 1 lb. would cost 4d., 2 lb., 8d., and so on; (3) what is the reason for the great disparity in the limit of weight allowed in the above two classes; and (4) whether the Government is prepared to take into consideration the advisability of raising the limit of weight for sample packets for the other countries to 5 lb.?

(1) The answer is in the affirmative. There are now practically no countries outside the Postal Union. (2) Yes; that is to say, the rates of parcel postage shown on page 63 of the Post and Telegraph Guide apply. (3) The maximum weight for sample packets is fixed at 350 grammes (or roughly 12 oz.) by the Universal Postal Union Convention. The higher maximum allowed in our relations within the British Empire is conceded in virtue of special arrangements with the Administrations concerned. (4) It is not possible to raise the limit of weight in the case of samples for Postal Union countries generally without concluding special agreements to that end. The matter of increasing the maximum of sample packets will come under discussion at the forthcoming Postal Union Congress at Madrid in September next.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs: (1) Whether numerous applications, supported by medical certificates, have reached heads of departments from subordinates asking for transfers from Pretoria to the coast on account of the climate being unsuitable to their families, and, if so, what is the policy of the Government in this regard; and (2) whether officers have not in certain instances been retransferred to the coast on account of their salaries and local allowances being inadequate to live upon, and, if so, whether the Government has laid down any fixed line of policy to deal with such cases?

(1) Several applications of the nature referred to have been received, but they cannot be said to have been numerous. In those cases where ill-health of a serious character is established, endeavours are made to effect exchanges with officers at the coast who are in the enjoyment of normal health. (2) In two very exceptional cases, in which the above reasons had been advanced, has retransfer to the coast been effected. Such cases are dealt with strictly on their merits and are subject to the possibility of suitable exchanges being arranged.

asked the Minister of the Interior whether he is aware that the night watchmen at the Government Buildings, Pretoria, are twelve hours on duty every night, with the exception of two or three nights in the month, and, if so, whether he is prepared to appoint more night watchmen, so as to afford the necessary relief at shorter intervals for the present men?

Yes! I am aware that the night watchmen at the Government Buildings, Pretoria, perform 12 hours duty nightly. They are relieved of duty every eighth night. I am not aware that these conditions are more onerous than those attaching to similar employment outside the Government service. I will, however, look into the question and see if by a rearrangement of duties anything can be done to give more frequent relief.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs whether he will have Germiston placed on the list of towns to which night telegrams may be sent?

No night telegraph staff is provided at Germiston, but the community may post night letter telegrams to Johannesburg for transmission from that point by telegraph, and may similarly receive night letter telegrams, via Johannesburg, from night telegraph offices in the Union. This facility has been in operation for some time, and steps will be taken to make it more generally known.

asked the Minister of Mines and Industries whether it is a fact that the reports and maps of the Geological Department, formerly printed at the Government Printing Works, Pretoria, are now being printed in Cape Town, and, if so, (1) whether this necessitates the sending of a draughtsman from that department to the Cape for the purpose of supervising the production; (2) what were the considerations which led to this change; (3) whether it is not a fact that the process and lithographic department of the Government Printing Works at Pretoria is one of the best equipped in South Africa to perform the work, and that this change will probably lead to the closing down of this department, the dismissal of the staff, and loss to the Union through idle plant; and (4) whether he will give instructions that the work shall in future be performed at the Government Printing Works?

The answer to the question is in the negative. As the matter is of some interest, however, I may state that after the amalgamation of the northern and Cape geological surveys into the geological survey of the Union the original intention was that, in order to ensure uniformity in geological colouring and nomenclature and in the standard of production of the maps of the geological survey, the maps of the Cape survey should be printed by the Government Printing Works in Pretoria. It was known, however, that several firms had first rate plant and were prepared to turn out first class work of this character in Cape Town, and in order to ascertain the character of the work and the approximate cost of printing as between Cape Town and Pretoria, tenders were recently called for, for the printing of the Pilandsberg sheet, with the result that the lowest tender received was that from Messrs. Van de Sandt and De Villiers, of Cape Town, who in the past always did the map printing of the Cape Geological Commission, and the printing of the map was given to this firm. As a result of the experiment it is reported by the Director of the Geological Survey that the character of the work is of the highest standard and in certain characteristics even surpasses the excellent work of the Government Printing Works in Pretoria. In order to complete the work the draughtsman visited the Cape, for the purpose of supervising certain steps in the production, but the cost of the map, including the travelling expenses of this official, worked out at a lower figure than the estimate of the Government Printing Works at Pretoria.

asked the Minister of Lands whether, in view of the fact that the valuable irrigation settlement of Weenen suffers very heavily in most seasons from hailstorms, the Government will consider the advisability of experimenting there with the French system of parahails, as strongly recommended for South Africa by the official deputed to inquire into the matter in Europe?

With regard to the hon. member’s suggestion that Weenen should be selected for experimenting with the French system of parahails, the practicability of the method, from a commercial point of view, has recently been investigated by a small departmental committee, and their conclusions will be laid on the Table shortly. Meanwhile, the Government does not see its way to embarking on an experiment at any particular spot.

asked the Prime Minister: (1) Whether he has received any information with regard to the exceptional drought in the Marico district, in many parts of which the crops will be a total failure; (2) whether he will instruct the magistrate of the said district, or some other person, to inquire into the state of affairs and to report to him; and (3) whether it is not possible for the Government to employ those who are suffering want by reason of the drought, either on the railways or in place of natives at present so employed, or somewhere else, seeing that many of these Europeans are willing to work for 3s. 4d. a day in order to live?

I must draw the hon. member’s attention to my reply on the 28th ult. to the question by the hon. member for Rustenburg, which dealt with the same subject. I can only add there to that the hon. member will have heard during the Budget speech of the Minister of Railways that the Railway Administration continues to make every endeavour to employ as much white labour as is reasonably possible. The additional considerable amount of expenditure involved by this policy was also given by the Minister on that occasion.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs: (1) How long was the postal agency at Willemsdal in existence, and what amount of postal business was done at the agency during that period; and (2) how many persons are now residing at Willemsdal?

(1) The postal agency at Willemsdal was open from the 1st to the 31st December, 1913. The record of the revenue earned at this point was destroyed by a recent fire at the Greylingstad Post Office, but it is estimated that the postage stamps sold amounted to £10, and the commission on postal orders to 10s. during the above period, which included the Christmas season. The postal agency at Willemsdal is being reopened. (2) I am informed that the present population is 210.

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) Whether he is aware that Regulation No. 106, framed under the provisions of the Police Act, No. 14 of 1912, is so carried out that when police are used in connection with social functions, political gatherings, etc., they are taken from their ordinary beat for the space of time they are at such functions or gatherings, and that the general public are deprived of police services for that time; and (2) as special charges are made on such occasions, why are not other police detailed for such duty and paid as formerly?

(1) My attention has been directed to the fact mentioned by the hon. member. (2) As the duties are performed in the Government time, the moneys received are paid into revenue. The Commissioner of Police has the strongest objections to police officers performing such duty in their own time, and receiving payment for their own profit.

(1) Is it not a fact that on or about the 13th April, 1914, by the 8.30 p.m. train from Cape Town, a compartment was reserved for Mr. “Matabele” Thompson and secretary, but that Mr. Thompson only travelled, and how many tickets did Mr. Thompson, or his agent, show when booking the compartment; (2) is it not a fact that recently Mr. Thompson, between De Aar and Beaufort West, spoke in an insulting manner to a servant of the Administration, took the name of the servant, and that three gentlemen named Hodgson, Leon, and Richardson, respectively, gave in their names as witnesses for the servant of the Administration; (3) is it not a face that because the said servant could not find the accommodation Mr. Thompson required between Beaufort West and Touws River, Mr. Thompson reported the servant to Inspector Steen; was the evidence of the two gentlemen who were in the same compartment at the time taken; if not, why not; (4) is it not a fact that on the 11th March, 1914, Mr. Thompson, at Braakpoort, threatened the said servant because when he requested the adjoining coupe to be opened, the said servant answered: “I may require the accommodation at Hutchinson ”; and (5) has the said servant been paid for the time during which he was suspended?

(1) The compartment was reserved, but on the distinct understanding that other passengers would be allowed to travel therein, if need be. Mr. Thompson’s secretary did not travel as was expected. Mr. Thompson being a well-known traveller was not asked to produce his tickets when the accommodation was reserved. (2) No complaint was made by the employee to this effect, but on the 7th December, 1913, Mr. Thompson called upon the Chief Inspector and complained of inattention and rudeness on the part of Ticket Examiner Lawrence. The complaint was made known to this employee, who denied the charge and intimated that the three gentlemen in question, who were travelling in the same saloon, had given their names and addresses so that they might be referred to, if necessary, in connection with one of the two incidents complained of. The case was not considered of sufficient importance to warrant further action, but the ticket examiner, whose appointment as such only dated from the 13th October last, was verbally requested to exercise great care in dealing with passengers. (3) No. This question is covered by the reply to paragraph (2). (4) Nothing is known of the employee having been threatened unless Mr. Thompson’s remark that he would report him is regarded as a threat. (5) No. The Minister added that he would like to suggest to the hon. member that he would do more good to the service if he would advise the men to take advantage of the departmental machinery which existed to deal with grievances, instead of bringing individual cases like this before Parliament. This was the second question the hon. member had addressed to him on this matter.

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker— (Cries of “Order.”)

Order. The hon. member is not in order.

asked whether he was not to be allowed an opportunity of raising a point of order.

said that the hon. member might do so after the Minister had finished.

(proceeding) said that this was the second time the hon. member had addressed him on this subject and he was bound to say that if he had the interests of the men at heart, and of this servant particularly, he would render a great service if he advised him, first of all, to take advantage of the departmental machinery.

I may say I do not know the man and have not seen him, and did not get my information from him.

in calling upon the hon. member for Jeppe, said that hon. members must not interrupt.

said he had understood that he could rise to a point of order.

asked the Minister of Defence: (1) Whether it is the intention of the Government to issue modern short rifles to the members of the Civic Guard Rifle Association of Johannesburg, and, if so, when; and (2) whether any Rifle Associations have yet been provided with the modern short rifle?

(1) No. (2) No; in January last it was necessary to issue a small number of these rifles to members of Defence Force Commandos brought to the Rand, as a sufficient supply of other pattern rifles was not then available on the spot. There is only a small stock of short rifles, and this stock will barely suffice to arm the South African Mounted Riflemen.

asked the Minister of Lands whether he will issue regulations for preventing Asiatics acquiring trading rights on lands allotted to holders under the Settlers Ordinance, 1902 (Transvaal), the Crown Lands Disposal Ordinance, 1903 (Transvaal), and the Land Settlement Act, 1912?

Lessees of land held in terms of the laws referred to by the hon. member are prohibited by the terms of their leases from sub-letting without previously obtaining my authority, and, as I have no intention of granting authority to lessees to sub-let trading rights to Asiatics, there is no necessity for the promulgation of regulations dealing with the matter.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether S. Jones, station foreman at Randfontein Station, was suspended from duty for 21 days for giving, on the 2nd January, 1914, the “right away” signal to a train without having received the necessary authority; (2) whether on the 22nd January he was, for this negligence, dismissed from the service, and whether his applications for re-employment have been refused; (3) whether in previous cases of a like nature the official guilty has been deemed by the Administration to have been sufficiently punished by the infliction of a fine of £5; and (4) what is the reason for this very severe punishment being meted out to station foreman Jones?

(1) Yes; but he was paid for the period during which he was under suspension. The delay in dealing with his case was due to the strike. (2) Yes. (3) No; not unless there were mitigating circumstances, and then only on the personal decision of the General Manager, who reports the facts of the case to the Railway Board. (4) The serious nature of the irregularity by which life was endangered.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs whether it is the intention of his department to connect Matjes River by telephone with Oudtshoorn, and, if so, when the connection will be made?

It is not at present the intention to connect Matjes River by telephone with Oudtshoorn. The telephone was recently extended to Groot Kraal, and until more pressing claims else where have been met, it is not practicable to continue the line to Matjes River.

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) Whether he is aware that on the retirement from the police force of Sergeant Heath-cote at Graham’s Town, his comrades in the said force desired to give him a testimonial and presentation as a mark of appreciation and esteem, but were prevented from so doing by the police authorities; (2) whether this action on the part of the said authorities was due to any rule, regulation, or standing order; and (5), if so, why this requirement is not observed at other stations in the Union; and, if not, why was the presentation prevented?

(1) Yes. (2) The action was taken under Standing Order of the South African Police, promulgated under the Police Act of 1912. (3) This requirement is observed in the South African Police throughout the Union, but the matter will be reconsidered in connection with new proposed regulations, which are now being dealt with.

asked the Minister of the Interior whether, with reference to Schedule E contained in the Immigration Statistics for the month of March, 1914, published on page 373 of the “Government Gazette,” dated the 24th April, 1914, he will specifically and fully state the causes in each case, together with the dates of conviction (if any), and the reasons for the deportation of the persons therein described?

The information published in the “Government Gazette ” is intended to be purely statistical. The extent to which information concerning the individual cases of deported persons is to be disclosed is indicated in sub-section (3) of section 4 of the Immigrants’ Regulation Act, No. 22 of 1913, and I am not prepared to proceed beyond the requirements of that law.

asked the Minister of Public Works: (1) Is the new Government House being proceeded with at Groote Schuur, and, if so, on whose design; and (2) was the designer one of the competitors whose plans were adjudicated upon by the assessors. Messrs. Stucke, Baker and Eagle, and, if so, what was the number assigned there to?

The answer to the first question is “No.” The second question, therefore, falls to the ground.

asked the Minister of Justice whether his attention has been drawn to the fact that owing to the trapping system under the Transvaal Liquor Law a great number of respectable and innocent European men and women are being put in gaol from time to time, and whether he intends to propose the necessary amendments to the said law during this session, and thus put a stop to this undesirable state of affairs?

replied I am not aware that owing to the trapping system under the Transvaal Liquor Laws innocent men and women are being put into gaol from time to time. Very strict instructions re trapping have been issued, and trapping only takes place by authority of a commissioned officer of police, in those cases in which it is otherwise impossible to bring habitual offenders to justice. I do not propose to put a stop to this practice in such cases.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether it is not possible to publish in the “Gazette” for general information a quarterly statement with full particulars showing the progress or otherwise of the work done by Mr. J. Naude, including the recruiting of labourers for farmers?

I see no objection to this proposal, and have instructed that it be given effect to.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether he is aware that cases have arisen in the railway service where certain employees have, owing to being injured while on duty, been unable to fulfill their obligations to the Defence Force, and that in such cases the Defence Authorities have insisted upon the production of a doctor’s certificate, which, though supplied by the Administration’s medical officer, must be paid for by the employee concerned; and (2) will the Minister cause instructions to be given, making doctors’ certificates issued under such circumstances free to the employees?

(1) I am not aware of any such cases as those instanced. (2) When employees are injured on duty certificates by the railway medical officers are supplied to the Administration, but such certificates are not paid for by the employees concerned. If the men obtain from a responsible officer of their department a note to the effect that they have been injured on duty, and that a medical certificate has been furnished to the Administration, this will, it is understood, meet the requirements of the Defence Department.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Why did the train due to leave the Docks at 1 o’clock p.m. on Saturday, the 25th April, not run; (2) why were the passengers kept at the Docks till 1.29 p.m., and not informed that the train would not run; (5) as passengers left the train and hired conveyances, will they be refunded the fares paid by them, seeing there was no apparent reasonable cause for the train not running; and (4) will the Railway Administration see to it that in future when they depart from the time-table the public are notified?

(1) The train did run, but it left the Docks 25 minutes late. Visitors were at the East Pier in large numbers to witness the departure of the mail steamer, which left the quay promptly at 1 p.m., and to meet the convenience of those wishing to return to town by train, the railway officer in charge considered it advisable to delay the departure of the 1 p.m. train. Very few passengers were seated at 1 p.m., and the train eventually left with 210 passengers on board. (2) The train left the Docks at 1.25 p.m. Passengers should have been notified that it was running slightly later than usual, and this would no doubt have been done had the officer in charge not expected to be able to get it away before 1.25, up to which hour passengers continued to arrive in large numbers. (3) The train was held back solely in the interests of the majority of the passengers, and there is no intention of refunding the fares paid by those who hired road vehicles. (4) Passengers will, as far as possible, be notified in future when the advertised running times are departed from.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Why did the 1.15 p.m. train from Monument to the Docks not run on the 25th April last; (2) was the public not considerably inconvenienced thereby; and (3) why was the public not informed thereof?

(1) On account of the late departure of the 1 p.m. train from the Docks, the cause of which has already been explained in reply to the previous question, the 1.15 p.m. from Monument did not leave until 1.45 p.m. on the date in question.

(2) No; very few people make use of the 1.15 p.m. train from Monument Station to the Docks. (3) It was not anticipated the 1 p.m. would have been delayed so long at the Docks.

asked the Minister of Mines and Industries whether he has any information with regard to the Scout life-saving (roof detection) apparatus, and, if so, whether he will state whether the device is likely, in the opinion of the Mines Department officials, to prove of use in diminishing the regrettable number of accidents underground due to falls of roof?

My attention has been drawn to the Scout life-saving (roof detection) apparatus, referred to by the hon. member, and. a specimen of the apparatus has been deposited by the manufacturers in the Mines Department Office here for inspection The principle is that pressure brings about compression of a spring, which effects electrical contact and rings a bell as a warning of the increased pressure. The apparatus has been reported on by the department, the report showing that the usefulness of such a warning is unquestionable, where the conditions are suitable for its use. A great deal depends on the number of cases of falls of roof, in which preliminary warning may be given by increased pressure downwards. It is probable that in a large percentage of cases the increase of pressure, the fracture and fall, and the destruction of the instrument would be simultaneous. A second possible criticism is that the instrument is rather delicate, and the heavy stone blasting that takes place in the Rand mines would damage the apparatus, unless constantly removed, and small falls of stone might also break the electrical connections. Only actual experience can prove the utility under everyday mining conditions of this instrument, but it is certainly worth trying.

said that, arising out of the answer, he would like to ask the Minister if the heads of the department would put this apparatus to an actual test?

said that there was a commission in existence for the investigation of life-saving apparatus sitting on the Rand, and it was his intention to refer this particular apparatus to that commission for report.

asked the Minister of Finance: (1) Is a licence imposed upon Pondoland traders who may purchase imported goods of the value of over £1,200 per annum from Natal; (2) is a similar licence charged if the imported goods are purchased from the Cape; and (3) if the answer is in the affirmative, what is the reason for the differentiation?

(1) In common with all traders in the Cape Province, Pondoland traders who import goods to the value of over £1,200 per annum are liable for an importer’s licence, whether their importations are drawn from Natal or from any other place outside the Cape Province. (2) No. (5) The reason is that the licence laws in force in each Province prior to Union are still in operation.

asked the Minister of Justice whether he contemplates giving one day’s rest in seven for the Urban Police Force, on the lines suggested in the report of the Sunday Observance Commission; if not, whether he will be prepared to give extra remuneration for Sunday work?

I am afraid there will be very great and almost insuperable difficulties in carrying out this recommendation throughout the police force, but the question will be considered by the Government in connection with the other recommendations of the Sunday Observance Commission.

asked the Minister of Justice Whether the Government will make inquiries as to the inadequacy of the accommodation for retiring rooms for jurymen, in the Court House, at Umtata, with the view to increasing the same?

I have inquired into the matter raised by the honourable member and find that no complaints were received as to the inadequacy of the accommodation for retiring rooms for jurymen from the jury at the last Circuit Sessions, and under the circumstances I do not propose to make any representations with a view to increasing the same.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs whether the Government will make inquiries into the question of the inadequacy of the accommodation for the public, European and native, in the Post Office at Umtata, with the view to increasing the same?

No representations as to the inadequacy of the public accommodation at the Umtata Post Office have reached the Postmaster-General. Inquiries are being made regarding the accommodation for all classes of the community.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: What were the costs incurred by the Railway Administration in connection with the deviation of railway lines during the year 1913-1914? replied:

Approximately, £249,923. The exact figures are not yet available.

asked the Minister of Agriculture how many bags of grain were exported from the Union during the years 1911-12 and 1912-13 respectively?

The exports of maize from the Union for each of the calendar years mentioned hereunder were as follows: 1911, 1,016,443 bags; 1912, 832,742 bags; 1913, 132,318 bags. Since 1st January, 1914, 192,979 bags have been exported.

asked the Minister of Justice whether it is a fact that prosecutions for the recovery of the £3 tax from Indians in Natal have been suspended, and, if so, will he order the immediate release or the suspension of the sentence of those now in custody until such time as the Government has decided upon a settled policy on this subject?

As the hon. member knows, the right of prosecution is vested in the Attorney-General. I have requested the Attorney-General to consider the advisability of suspending prosecutions for recovery of the £3 tax from Indians in Natal pending the matter being dealt with by Parliament. There was only one Indian actually in custody, and he has already been released.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether he is aware (a) that the waitresses at Cape Town Station have received no payment for Sunday work for January and February; (b) that 1s. 10d. per day was the amount paid to them for Sunday work during March, or less than half the pay for week days; (c) that they are required to pay 1s. per month extra to the Sick Fund; (d) that the £3 per month allowed for food is not paid to the waitresses, but retained; and (2) whether he intends to alter these conditions?

(1) (a) The waitresses at Cape Town tearoom have now received extra pay in respect of Sunday duty performed during the months of January and February. Payment should have been made some time ago, and the General Manager is inquiring why the instructions were not given effect to at the time. (b) This is not correct. (c) Yes. The deduction now made is in accordance with section 57 of the Sick Fund Regulations. The extra 1s. per month should have been deducted from the date of the operation of the new fund, and it was due to an oversight that this was not done. (d) No allowance is paid in respect of food, but the waitresses receive meals free of charge when on duty. (2) The points raised have been disposed of by the answers already given.

asked the Minister of Justice whether he is satisfied that the amount of threepence per day allowed to the police for uniform is adequate; if so, is fie prepared, in cases where application may be made, to provide uniforms in lieu of the threepence per day; if not, why not?

I am informed by the Commissioner of Police that he considers the allowance of threepence per day for uniform adequate. All recruits on attestation receive a complete free issue, and thereafter are required to maintain their uniform out of the allowance. If members of the Force were permitted at their own discretion to draw uniform instead of allowance, it would create a dual system which would lead to endless complications, for this reason, that the life or period of duration of each article varies considerably, as a coat, for instance, would only be issued once in five years, whereas a blue frock would last about nine months. If a man, therefore, after drawing uniform for a period, elects to change and draw allowance in lieu, he will have in his possession articles issued free, the life of which has not expired, and he will obviously not be entitled to the full allowance. It is impracticable, therefore, to have more than one system in force; if some now were dealt with under one system and some under another the complication would be quite unworkable.

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) Whether Police Constable J. S. van Niekerk was injured on 14th June last in effecting an arrest in Ferreira’s Town; (2) whether he was incapacitated by his injuries and detained in barracks for three months on full pay, for two months on half-pay, and for a further two months unpaid, when he was finally discharged as medically unfit with a gratuity of £28 1s. 1d., payable in monthly instalments; (3) whether owing to his being kept in this way in the service for seven months after he received his injuries he is now debarred from claiming compensation under the Workmen’s Compensation Act; and, if so (4), will the Government take his case into special consideration and make provision for his compensation?

(1) The answer is in the affirmative. (2) The report of the Medical Board shows that Van Niekerk received an injury to the left knee on the 1st June, 1913, caused by twisting the leg when arresting a prisoner. He was off duty on sick leave till the 5th June, 1913. On the 15th June, 1913, he was again injured while arresting another prisoner and admitted to the Johannesburg Hospital on the same day, the knee also being injured in this case. He was discharged from hospital on the 5th July, 1913. On the 8th July Van Niekerk again reported sick on account of the same injury, and was excused duty till the 11th July, which was extended to the 15th and 19th July, when he was granted sick leave on full pay to 17th August, 1913. This leave was extended to the 31st December, 1913. During this period he received full pay for 20 days, half-pay for 90 days, and no pay on 26 days. His half-pay leave expired on the 5th December, 1913, from which date until the 19th January, 1914 he was subsisted at the Central Police Barracks, Johannesburg, free of charge. Van Niekerk was examined by the Medical Board on the 5th December, and was on their recommendation discharged as medically unfit, and received an annuity of £28 1s.1d. in accordance with section 36 of the Public Service and Pensions Act of 1908 (Transvaal). (3) By virtue of section 33 of the Transvaal Workmen’s Compensation Act, Van Niekerk is not entitled to claim both the compensation under that Act and the annuity under the Pensions Act, so that apart from the question of the time which has elapsed he is now debarred from claiming compensation under the Workmen’s Compensation Act. (4) I understand that the annuity if commuted by the Treasury would amount to approximately £515, which is a larger sum than the maximum he would be entitled to under the Workmen’s Compensation Act. I regret that as the law stands I cannot make any further provision for his compensation.

moved as an unopposed motion: that the petition from J. S. Mazwi and 29 others, ministers and elders of the Presbyterian Church of Africa, praying that the House may grant the said church certain privileges and remove certain disabilities affecting and impeding its progress, presented to this House on the 1st May, 1914, be referred to the Select Committee on Native. Affairs for consideration and report.

The motion was agreed to.

asked for leave to move No. 15, which was a purely formal motion.

objected.

withdrew the following motion standing in his name: That in the opinion of this House the Government be requested, in view of the urgent necessity of furthering the interests of higher education, to take into consideration the desirability of placing the amounts advanced to certain Colleges of the Union, prior to the 1st day of April, 1913, on the same footing as the School loans advanced prior to that date in terms of sub-section (3) of section 9 of Act 10 of 1913.

moved: That the Government be requested to introduce a Bill during the present session to so amend the laws of the Union governing medical practitioners and dentists as to allow a person born in South Africa who has duly qualified as a medical practitioner or dentist either in England or elsewhere to practise in any part of the Union. The proposer pointed out that he had moved in the direction indicated by his motion on previous occasions. He thought everyone in this House would agree as to the necessity of a change being made in the present position. Parents at present were spending hundreds of pounds to have their children given a good medical training, but when they came back from studying abroad, they were prevented from practising in certain parts of the Union. He personally knew of cases last year where young Afrikanders, namely, Drs. Wege, Van Niekerk, and Schonken, who had studied in Europe had returned, were allowed to practise in the Transvaal, but had not been allowed to practise in the Cape. He quoted from the reply of the Medical Council to a father whose son had been studying in Holland and was about to return to South Africa, to show that under “certain regulations”—not legislation—young fellows who had taken their degree in Holland could not practise in the Cape. The position was a ludicrous one, he held, seeing that the universities in Holland were practically as well known as those in England or any other country. Why were these young men prevented from practising in then own country? The Cape law of 1891 made it clear that the whole question had been left in the hands of the Medical Council That was why he was so strongly opposed to legislation by regulation. The result was that, instead of Parliament having the matter in its hands, the Medical Council had the power to deal with the whole position. As a matter of fact, the Medical Council took very little notice of Parliament, because a Select Committee of the Cape House in 1905 had recommended that the regulations be so amended that British subjects residing in the Cape should be able to conclude their medical studies at any university recognised by the Medical Council. No effect had been given to that recommendation. Afrikander students now studying in Holland had sent in another petition to the Government in connection with this matter. The position at present was a most unjust one, and he held that he had in this matter the sympathy of every member of the House. He therefore trusted the Government would take up this subject at an early date.

seconded the motion,

said this was not the first time that the mover and himself had been fighting over this matter. On previous occasions he (Dr. Hewat) had opposed him, but the present time he was in a position heartily to support him. (Ministerial cheers.) As an old member of the Medical Council, he (Dr. Hewat) could place the whole of the facts before the House. In 1902 or 1903 we had medical men coming here from all parts of the world and flooding the country. Then German or Portuguese doctors residing in German S.W. Africa or Portuguese East Africa, who happened to be living near the British borders, would cross the frontier and practise in British South Africa, but British practitioners were not permitted to cross the border of the foreign territory. This constituted a hardship.

They had made inquiries as to what countries granted reciprocity to British qualifications, and they found that only two countries did so, and they were Italy and Japan. With the exception of those two countries, there was none which would grant rights to British graduates to practise. The Medical Council had felt that under this reciprocity regulation there might be hardships. There were some young South Africans who were studying abroad, and who would have been debarred from practising in this country. The regulation was therefore altered so as to exclude from its provisions South African students who were studying abroad. The House had appointed a committee to deal with the question, and that committee recommended that South African born students and students who had been domiciled in this country might study where they liked, granting the qualification met the requirements of the Council. The Medical Council had urged on the Government times without number that privileges should be given to South African boys to study in any country they cared to. In 1905 the Medical Council suggested to the Government an amendment of the Act, whereby all South African students might study where they liked for the purpose of registration in this country, but at the same time it was recommended that people without the necessary qualifications should not be registered here. They had found that the Transvaal and the O.F.S. had granted those rights. Strange to say the Cape Colony had been the first to open the door to South African boys studying in other countries. In 1911 the Medical Council again urged the matter on the Government, and the Government replied that they would deal with it in a Medical Bill. The Medical Council had urged in season and out of season that South African boys should be allowed to study wherever they wished, but there was one thing they had always been against, and that was the admission of people without proper qualifications. They had now four colonies with four medical councils, with four laws and four systems of registration. No medical man could even go across a border in South Africa. The matter had been put off from year to year, and it was still in the same position that it was five years ago. He could heartily support the motion of the hon. member for Prieska, and he thought there should be no difficulty in introducing a Medical Bill.

said that he would willingly support the motion provided one word were deleted from it. What he thought they ought to do to-day was to act on the lines of the Act passed in the Transvaal in 1909, which was promulgated that year. He agreed with the principle that a medical practitioner registered in one Province should be entitled to practise in any other. It was an absurd thing in a small country like this that a man registered in one part of the Union should not be allowed to practise in another part. Although he (Dr. Macaulay) had some shreds of reputation in the Province from which he came, he was not allowed to practise in the Cape. He thought the whole matter should be put on a proper basis, and appealed to the Minister to introduce a Bill on the lines of the Transvaal Act of 1809 in which they had arranged in the most liberal fashion for the principle mentioned by the mover. He objected to the word “elsewhere” in the motion, because there were places where people could get degrees very easily, and, he would be sorry to see them registered in this country. He thought that if the Minister was going to introduce any legislation he should adhere to the principle that the qualifications should not be lower than were recognised by the authorities in the United Kingdom.

said that had it not been for possible opposition and the quantity of work before the House a Bill such as was asked for by the hon. member (Mr. Kuhn) would long since have been laid before the House. The Government entirely approved of the object of the motion. It was a well-known fact that even the most innocent legislation met with great opposition. Seeing, however, that they had the assurance of medical members of the House that they agreed with the Transvaal Act of 1909, he saw no objection to the motion. That Act laid it down that students must study at any university in the world and obtain a degree. That degree must, however, be such as was recognised by the Medical Council, before the student was allowed to practise. He was prepared to introduce a Bill on the lines of the Transvaal Act during the present session, and trusted, if there was no undue opposition, that the Bill would become law this session. (Hear, hear.)

said he wished to correct the hon. member for Denver. It would be an advantage in this motion if they substituted the “United Kingdom” for “England.” (Laughter.)

The motion was agreed to.

moved that the petitions from C. A. Organ and 2,900 others, teachers in Government-aided schools in the Cape Province, and from T. Ball and 1,096 others, members of School Boards and School Committees of the Cape Province, presented to this House on the 16th March, 1914, drawing attention to the low salaries paid to teachers in the Cape Province and praying that the House may take their case into consideration and grant such relief as it may deem fit, be referred to the Government for consideration. The hon. member said he was afraid that the Minister of Education did not quite realise what he wanted to impress upon him, the important character of these petitions, and he hoped the Government would give them serious consideration. (Hear, hear.) When at an earlier stage petitions to this effect were presented to the House the Minister stated that he had no objection to the department being used as a means of transmitting them to the Provincial Council. He desired to show the Minister and the House that this was a matter which ought to be taken into serious consideration by the Government. (Hear, hear.) He would briefly call attention to the facts alleged in the petitions. In the second clause it was alleged that, as compared with salaries paid to teachers in other Provinces, those paid to teachers in the Province of the Cape of Good Hope were disproportionately low, even taking into account the alleged difference in the cost of living and the good service allowance and pension rights in the Cape Province. Then followed a short statement of figures showing that in the Transvaal Province the average salary paid to teachers was £227, taking all teachers; in Natal it was £170; and in the Cape Province it was £115, excluding mission schools. The petition went on to say that the average commencing salary in the Transvaal exceeded the average commencing salary in the Cape Province by between 60 per cent. and 70 per cent. The reasons for this large increase were clearly the much larger amount which was in proportion allocated to education in the other Provinces as compared to that allocated in the Cape Province. Taking the figures for 1912, which were the latest completed figures available, it was shown that the amount allocated to education in the Cape Province was £687,000, while the combined amount in the other Provinces from the same sources was £1,131,000. When they looked at the work which had to be done in these Provinces a different aspect was thrown upon the figures. The number educated in the Cape Province (dealing still with 1812) was 92,000 European and 123,000 non-European children, and in all the other Provinces combined 95,000 European and 48,000 non-European children It was usual to take three natives as equivalent to one white person in statistics, but he would take for these purposes a basis of four, so as to be on the right side. They then found that in the Cape Province 123,000 children were being educated, with an allocation of £687,000, while in all the other Provinces they had 107,000 children, with an allocation of £1,131,000, or nearly half a million more. As nearly as possible, it worked out at twice as much per child educated upon the allocation from the central funds. The petition further dealt with the amount contributed by the various Provinces. It was shown that the Cape Province contributed in fees and education rates £296,000, while the other Provinces together contributed £72,000. If it were not for this large amount contributed by the Cape Province in fees and education rates, the position of the teachers here would be infinitely worse than it was at the present time. He could harrow the House with pictures of the inadequacy of these salaries as applied to Cape teachers. He did not propose to do that. He wanted to go on to deal with an aspect of what, he thought, was still more important to this House, and bring home to the House the effect it was having upon our education. (Hear, hear.)

In the Cape Province elementary education was at the present time on the down grade. It was true that in other departments of education the Cape was not on the down grade. He hoped there were a great many parts of our educational system where we were still advancing, but he would show the House, he thought, that distinctly in our elementary work the tendency was to go downhill and not to advance. He could not prove that, of course, from examination results. Examination results, after all, only dealt with the top part of education. He thought they might take as a basis what was the qualification and standing of the teachers themselves. As the standard of the teacher was so would the standard of the children be. If it were a fact that our teachers were deteriorating, if we had on an average all through less qualified teachers than we had had, then they must accept it as perfectly certain that the average teaching of their children would go down as well Let them look at a simple means of ascertaining the position of our teachers at the present time, and take the percentage of certificated and uncertificated teachers within the Cape Province. The Minister of Education would know that for many years we were making a steady advance in this Province, that we were getting fewer and fewer untrained, uncertificated teachers employed under School Boards and School Committees. He would not go back over the last quarter of a century. He would simply go back as far as 1909. In 1909 the percentage of uncertificated teachers in the Cape Province was 22.8, in 1910 this had been improved by 2 per cent., and in 1911 there was again an improvement of nearly 2 per cent., the percentage being reduced to 19.1 uncertificated teachers. In 1912 the percentage, instead of being improved, had gone back by 0.4 per cent., and they found the percentage was 19.5. In 1913 it had risen again to 21.3. There had, therefore, during the last two years been a steady going down from the position we were in a few years ago. The matter that brought this home more particularly to him was looking at the two districts with which he was most intimately connected, Kimberley and Barkly. In 1912 the Kimberley and Barkly districts were both in the proud position of having 100 per cent. of certificated teachers teaching under their Boards Today the position was that Kimberley had five uncertificated teachers appointed during the last year, and Barkly West had gone up to 22 per cent. of uncertificated teachers.

Continuing, he said that having got up to a position of having a fully qualified staff of certificated teachers, they were being driven back again to employing a large number of uncertificated teachers. Surely these figures showed the increasing shortage of teachers in this Province. There were two obvious reasons, though there might be others. First was the insufficiency of pay in the Cape Province, which did not tend to make the teaching profession a popular one and made women and particularly men come to the conclusion that there were better things which they might do. They were not attracting into the profession the class they would wish. The other thing was the higher pay in the other Provinces taking away from the Cape Province all its best teachers. The Minister frowns. Perhaps, he did not believe, but he (Dr. Watkins) was not speaking on opinions, because he had put figures before the House. He referred to a speech which appeared in the “Educational News” of March 14, which was delivered by Mr. Hodgson of the Frenchhoek High School. This gentleman pointed out in the course of his speech that a great many of their best teachers had gone to the other Provinces for salaries of £500 and £600 as opposed to the £300 and £400 which they got in the Cape Province. The surest way, he said, of wrecking their High School staffs was to show good results in the matriculation examination. Then Dr. Watkins read a letter which was sent to a Cape student who had passed the matriculation not brilliantly, but rather well. It came from the Normal College, Heidelberg, and was a typed circular which started, “Dear Sir, or Madam,” showing that it had been sent to other people. This offered attractive prospects to the student, and he asked the Minister to tell the House what the Cape Province had to offer teachers in competition with that. He believed that £20 per annum towards the education of their teachers was as much as the Cape Province could offer. That was one reason why they were running short of teachers.

He then read a letter from a friend of his on the Kimberley School Board to the effect that two of their best male teachers were leaving to accept better positions in the Transvaal and Natal. That morning he saw a, telegram in the paper with reference to the resignation of two members of the Mafeking School Board, one of their complaints being that they were constantly short of teachers, while three teachers had resigned in order to go to the Transvaal. This sort of thing had brought about a condition of unrest and dissatisfaction among the teaching profession in the Cape Province, and it was having a disastrous effect on education. In 1913, out of all the teachers under the Cape education system, 59.4 per cent. were appointed during the year. That was that new appointments were made, or that teachers were moved from one position to another. The figures he quoted showed that two of every three teachers were moved in the course of the year. He said they heard about rapid movements on the mines, and a Commission had called attention to the disastrous results to the mining industry owing to the men being changed from one mine to another. If it was a bad thing for the mining industry that men should be moved, how much worse must it not be for their schools when teachers were moved at such a rate? It was a bad state of affairs, and it was essential that the Minister should give the matter his earnest consideration. Of course, this movement of teachers was almost inevitable because it did not always moan that a teacher was moved from one school to another. They were tied up in such a fashion that it was almost impossible to get their best men a paltry increase of salary unless they were moved from one position to another.

The only way to get a teacher an increase of salary was to move him to another place. All that was very bad. If this state of affairs was bad in their High Schools and in the large towns, it must be worse still in the smaller country districts, where it was more difficult for School Boards and School Committees to get into touch with the Administrator. The Minister was aware that, just before the opening of Parliament, a School Board Congress was held, and there were 150 delegates present, and it would have gladdened the Minister’s heart to hear the extent of bilingualism at that Congress. That Congress passed a large number of resolutions, and one of these was to the effect that elementary education should be brought under the administration of the Union Parliament. The Minister, no doubt, felt flattered that the Congress should have passed such a resolution, and felt that if he only got education in his own hands, all these things would be bettered. Don’t let the Minister lay such flattering unction to his soul. It was not because they regarded him as superior to the Administrator; it was because they felt he sat so much nearer the Treasury. It was purely the financial aspect that appealed to them. He was averse to any such change, because he thought it would be a mistake. He wanted to see the Provincial Council have a full and fair trial. He thought education needed a considerable amount of attention that the Union Parliament would not be able to pay were it in the hands of the central authorities. He did think that the Cape Province should be treated more like the other Provinces, and he went on to contrast the amount raised in the Cape Province as compared with the contributions of other Provinces. The Administrator had stated that it would require £154,000 more to carry out even a moderate edition of the Transvaal system. Of course the Minister would say that the Cape could raise this extra money, but he did not see why the Cape should bear an extra burden. They had trained in the Cape three times as many teachers as all the other Provinces put together, but if they took the proportion of children, they ought to train only 25 per cent. more than the other Provinces. When the Financial Relations Act was before the House, he brought forward this question of education, and urged that it should be treated on a different basis. He urged that it should be on a capitation basis—so much per head for each child attending school—but he spoke to deaf ears. It was not for him (Dr. Watkins) to suggest a remedy. It was for the Minister to take the matter in hand. The Minister could see the writing on the wall in both languages, and he would have to take notice of it. There was something wrong. The Minister of Education was responsible, although he might say he was only the Minister of Higher Education. But what was the good of higher education if the education at the bottom was going all wrong? They must put in their foundations well if they wished to carry their superstructure up to any height. The Minister had recognised that he had a duty to co-ordinate education, and the finances were a portion of that. He looked to the Minister to do something to get away from the anomalous state of things to which he (Dr. Watkins) had drawn attention. (Opposition cheers.)

seconded, and said he wished to give the motion his hearty support. He trusted the Minister would not tell the House that this was a matter which belonged to the Provincial Council. They knew that the matter was of the utmost importance, where it touched the education of the youth of this Province. They all felt a great injustice was being done to the teachers of this Province. If he looked at matters now he must say that last year a mistake was made when the Financial Relations Act was passed. He had been a member of the Select Committee which dealt with the Bill. To-day they found the greatest dissatisfaction among their teaching staff. They were not disloyal, but as the result of the injustice which was being done, the Cape Province was losing a great asset, as the best teachers were leaving them for the other Provinces, where they got better pay, though those other Provinces had no responsibility for their training. The Government would not do any harm by taking up this subject. Let them look at the salaries which were being paid. In the Transvaal, in the higher schools, salaries from £600 to £800 per year were being paid—and where in the Cape was such a salary paid to the teachers? The Cape was the greatest contributor to the Treasury, yet this was what they saw. The Cape did not ask for more than the other Provinces were getting, and, indeed, would be satisfied with something less. He strongly objected to this great injustice, because the effect could only be that eventually the Cape, which had been foremost in regard to matters educational, would become the last. The Cape was training the teachers and paying for its own and their education, but was only able to retain the second-class teachers.

said that if they had to remove the anomalies which had been complained of between the different Provinces, they would have to take away education from Provincial Councils and place it under the Union Administration. (Hear, hear.) But even if lower education were brought under one central administration, it would be impossible to remove the existing salary inequalities by one stroke of the pen. (Hear, hear.) What they had to consider was whether they were paying an adequate salary, not whether they were paying less or more than was given in another Province. In the district in which he lived, and of the School Board of which he was a member, they paid in most cases ample salaries, and it must be remembered that in addition to salaries teachers had privileges which were valuable to them. But there were parts of the Cape which were not paying adequate salaries. That was in the outlying districts, where frequently the work was carried on under uncongenial conditions. In those cases better salaries should be paid. The distances the teachers had to travel should also be taken into account. Such speeches as that made by the mover might cause danger, for the Cape could not pay the same salaries as were given in the Transvaal. The hon. member for Port Elizabeth, in criticising the Budget, had drawn attention to the increase in expenditure, and he thought they should be very careful lest they allowed the teachers and the community generally to believe that the scale of salaries could be brought up to the level in the Transvaal.

Why not?

Because the scale would be too high. He knew that they were losing a number of teachers in the Cape on account of the salaries paid, and he did not think any hon. member would deny that in many cases they were inadequate.

said he had been surprised while listening to the speech of the hon. member for Oudtshoorn. The School Boards used to have the power to levy a rate of 1d. in the £, and it was subsequently reduced to ½d. in the £. The hon. member for Oudtshoorn would then have liked to have removed the rate altogether. If they were going to pay bigger salaries they would have to find the money somewhere. If his hon. friend wanted to pay teachers more why had he not been prepared to put his hand in his pocket? The power to raise money had been taken away from the School Boards. He agreed with the hon. member for Worcester that if they were to pay teachers on the same scale on which they were paid in the Transvaal they would have to bring down the income tax, and it would mean that they would have to have a heavy land tax on property. They did not want the same system as they had in the Transvaal and Orange Free State, because it led to extravagance. They knew that there had been a great deal of extravagance in those two Provinces. He thought the Government should make a grant for each pupil’s average attendance and let the local authorities try to find the balance. If the Government said that they would give to the Boards so much per head per scholar on the average attendance then the responsibility for extravagance would rest with the local people.

said the question, boiled down, amounted to this—whether the financial relations between the different Provinces were on a sound basis or not. If it could be shown that there were teachers in any part of the Union who were getting less than a living wage it would be their duty to see that steps were taken to ensure those teachers having their salaries placed on a satisfactory basis. It was no use quibbling as to whether the funds should be raised by the local authorities or by the central authorities. Some 4,000 teachers had complained that their salaries were totally inadequate. Looking through the Minister’s Budget speech, he found they had got a surplus or £120,600, much of which might very well be utilised in putting teachers’ salaries on a satisfactory basis. He did not mean by a satisfactory basis that they should be brought up to the level of the Transvaal, but the present rate of wages paid in the Cape was totally disproportionate to that which existed in the other Provinces. The average salary for the Transvaal was £227 a year, in Natal it was £170 a year, and when they came to the Cape they found it was only £115. On the total of the 8,000 teachers in the Cape they found that the average was £40 a year. That was the average salary of all teachers employed in the Cape Province. It was true that some of those teachers got board and lodging, but when they remembered that they only got £5 or £4 a month it would be seen that they were in a worse position than many domestic servants. That state of affairs should not exist longer than they could possibly help. From the reports he had read it seemed that the teachers had been buffetted about from pillar to post until now at last they appealed to Parliament. Twenty-two shillings and sixpence per week was the average salary paid to teachers in the Cape, and that was lower than the wage of a labourer. He found that among the female teachers in the employ of the Cape School Board there were 173 who received less than £100 a year. Another feature of the educational system in the Cape Province was that the lowest-paid teachers had to look after the largest classes.

He noticed that the Teachers’ Association had drawn up a schedule, and it was considered that to pay these salaries would involve an additional expenditure of £100,000. He found, from the speech of the Administrator, that he was going to give an educational vote of £105,000, of which £25,000 would be devoted to the increases in teachers’ salaries, and £80,000 to what he called special development, i.e., opening of new schools, additional experiments, colleges for training teachers, etc. It was all very well to train teachers in the Cape Province, but the fact was that they went to the Transvaal when they had been trained, because they could not get a living wage here. He also noticed that the Cape Administration had got an increase of £70,000 in the way of transfer duties. It seemed to him that it would have been an honest and straightforward action on the part of the Administrator, who had expressed his sympathy time and time again with the teachers in their claim for a living wage, if he had applied a good share of that amount of £190,000, received by the Cape Province from transfer dues, towards placing the teachers’ salaries on a satisfactory basis. The hon. member went on to say that this was the same trouble that the teachers had had in Herefordshire. There they had fought for a living wage, and they had even committed the awful and heinous crime of going on strike. As a result of that strike, the teachers had succeeded in getting a minimum wage laid down. In the Cape, not only did they find that the teachers were paid a low wage, but he saw that at Prince Albert they had had to go on strike to get any wage at all. He was glad to notice that the teachers in the Cape were now more active than they had been in the past, and that they had got a Teachers’ Union which was being used for the purpose of bringing collective action to bear with a view of improving their position, instead of, as in the past, living on flattery and sympathy. He hoped the petition would be driven home, and the teachers of the Cape Province put on a more satisfactory basis than in the past.

said that under the Act of Union the control of elementary education in the Cape Province and the spending of the money thereof had been assigned to the Provincial Council, and what that House had to do in the way of granting relief in connection with matters of that kind he was unable to see. The proper body was surely the Provincial Council. Here they were wasting time discussing a matter in which, at the present time, they were absolutely debarred from taking any action, because it had been placed in the hands of the Provincial Council to administer. Unless they brought up the Financial Relations Bill again and created a change in the financial relations between the different Provinces of the Union they were quite unable to take any step. He could not see that the discussion could serve any purpose and he protested against their being asked to take any part in it.

said he hoped the House would not take the view enunciated by the hon. member who had just sat down. They were not wasting time by discussing that matter, for it was a matter which concerned the intelligence of the youth of this country. It was not a Provincial but a national matter, for it concerned the whole of South Africa. Wherever the children were educated, they moved from one place to another. That House ought to consider what was good for the country, and there was no question that if they were to allow their children to grow up without being properly educated, they were not doing their duty. He was sorry to hear the Minister of Education saying “Hear, hear,” when the hon. member for Pietermaritzburg, North, was expressing his views.

He knew I was right.

He knew you were right academically; because this House has no right to discuss a matter which is in the hands of the Provincial Council. With regard to its coming under Financial Relations, it was simply because the Cape members were outvoted that that injustice was done in connection with that Bill. There were T2 teachers who had studied for years who were paid at the rate of £6 per month. How could they in the Cape Peninsula expect their children to be properly educated under such circumstances? It was impossible to get suitable people to come forward to enter the profession.

The teachers had petitioned that House because they had exhausted every other means in their power to try to get justice. The School Boards had no power to spend money. The Provincial Council said they were tied up by the Financial Relations Bill, consequently they had no power; so the teachers came to that House. Was the hon. Minister going to tell them that the teachers were going to be referred back to the Provincial Council? That Parliament was paramount in this country, and if the hon. Minister had the will to do justice to those people, he had got the will to amend the Financial Relations Bill. Advantage was taken of the fact that the teachers were too proud to adopt such measures as a strike, and they were put off from day to day. The Administrator proposed to appoint a Select Committee or Commission to inquire into the question of teachers’ salaries, but for what purpose? The teachers of the Cape Peninsula were perfectly content with the scale of salaries and increments drawn up by the Cape School Board, but they were told by the Education Department that they could not carry it out. Therefore for years the teachers had had no increases—they had rather had decreases. In the Cape Peninsula, under the Cape School Board, there were 443 teachers, and of those 241 were drawing under £150 a year. Could they expect the teachers to be content with that? They had been told to have patience. He, as a member of the Cape School Board, was tired of preaching patience. They had preached patience to the teachers for years. The remedy was in the hands of that House, and, in his opinion, that question should be adopted without a single discordant vote. The hon. member for Worcester had spoken of teachers there being adequately paid. They must be better off there than in other parts of the country, for he (Mr. Runciman) knew that there was great discontent in the Western Province. He trusted the Minister of Education would use his influence to good purpose. When the Financial Relations Bill was passed, in the list of payments which the Union Government handed over to the Cape Province there was the sum of over £200,000 paid in lieu of school fees. To his mind that money should be devoted to education, for he thought it had been merged in the Provincial funds, and was being used for other purposes. He would like the hon. Minister to find out whether that was so or not.

said he was sorry he could not agree with the hon. member for Simon’s Town nor with the mover of the motion. The Provincial Council would not thank this House for putting their finger in the pie; if they became mixed up with that matter they would find that the Provincial Council would say, “Go on, do it yourselves, if it is under your jurisdiction.” Where, then, would those poor people be?

Where are they now?

In very good hands. Continuing, he laid stress on the fact that there were teachers who were well paid and were satisfied, but he thought himself that there were many matters that should be rectified. Education had been handed over to the Provincial Council, and he was sorry because he thought it was a mistake. He wanted to correct the hon. member for Durban, Greyville, who said that there had been a strike of teachers at Prince Albert. There was nothing of the kind. The Divisional Council had been a little dilatory about paying their part of the contributions towards the teachers’ salaries, but the money was forthcoming when a wire was sent to Dr. Muir, and these people went away happy and contented. It was a pity that the strikes engineered by the Labour people could not be ended in such an amicable way. In conclusion, he said he was sorry they had given away to the Provincial Council the best thing in South Africa, because he thought the Government should be responsible for the education for the youths of South Africa.

said he thought they were the only civilised people in the world who treated primary education as many hon. members had treated it that afternoon. He contended that it was in primary education that they wanted the most competent teachers, and he pointed out that the Industries Commission had called attention to the lack of sound primary education. If they were going to have efficient teachers they must give them the fundamental of efficiency. He pointed out that there were many young women who after a few months in a commercial school took up positions as typists at £10 per month, but if they were sent to a primary school they would not be able to do the work. He said that the salaries that were paid to teachers were a disgrace, and he alleged that the standard of teaching in some of the schools was low. Their teachers went up and down in the trains with pale faces. They worked as they went to school, they worked all day, and even when school was over they worked’ again. At the present figures that were offered teachers he thought there ought to be a dearth of teachers. He denied that they had handed over once and for all education to the Provincial Council. It had been handed over for a certain period. Undoubtedly the Provincial Council had done good work, and they had been told that more would be done if they had the money. Of course, if £100,000 was required for their agricultural friends or for their ostrich friends the House would grant it willingly, but the poor teachers had not anybody to speak for them and few to work on their behalf. He thought that the country could easily get the money required. (Hear, hear.) If they wanted efficient work they must have efficient teachers, and if they wanted efficient teachers they must offer inducements in the shape of better salaries. In conclusion, he said he found that the salaries in Natal were superior to those in the Cape, and he impressed upon members the necessity of having a sound system of primary education.

said that in the Cape School Board they had attempted to remedy this deplorable state of affairs but without result, and if they were going to retain their best teachers they must pay them decent salaries. Salaries were one thing, but the real fact was that they should look after the interests of their own children by getting good and efficient teachers to educate them. When the Cape School Board took over they had good and contented teachers, but owing to the salaries they floated away to other Provinces. They had a few good ones left, but if things went on as they were going these teachers would leave. He pointed out that supposing they gave higher salaries the next day they would not get the teachers, and they would have to import teachers, who would be acquainted with only one language. Dealing with the question of education and the Provincial Council, he said he knew they were in a position, if they made up their minds, to meet the deficiency of the Financial Relations Act and grant a larger sum for education. He pointed out that the teachers had gone to School Committees, School Boards, the Provincial Council, and even the Union Parliament, without getting any satisfaction. It was a wonder they did not go on strike. He would regret a strike of teachers, but instead of doing that they left the Cape Province. The Minister could do something to improve matters, and he (Dr. Hewat) hoped he would.

said the best way to avoid strikes was to remove the cause. (Labour cheers.) That could not always be done, but it could be done in many cases. The teachers had not struck and it was admitted that their salaries in the Cape Province were very low. There was an idea that because these people were patient and would not strike we must trade on them, but was not the fact that these men and women were patient and had not taken any desperate action a reason that something should be done for them? Unfortunately, we were always locking the stable door after the horse had gone. (Hear, hear.) Let us try to remove the cause, and the best way to handle the matter was honestly to face the position that scores of these, teachers were being disgracefully underpaid. He did not want to say anything about the salaries of the Cabinet Ministers, but he could not help drawing a comparison between the two. There was some truth in the objection raised that this was not a Union business, but let Parliament make it its business. If the teachers were reduced to a pitiable stage, what kind of instructor should we get in future? In Johannesburg he knew of cart drivers getting £300 a year, which was more than some of the best educated teachers in the Cape were receiving. The best way to avoid a strike was to remove the cause of the discontent, and thus they would do a great public service to a class well worthy of consideration. (Hear, hear.)

said he felt the hon. member for Greyville had overstated the case, as the lowest grade of Cape teacher was paid £45 a year.

I quoted from the “Educational Gazette.”

said teachers also received good service allowances and pensions, but he was not going to argue that Cape teachers were sufficiently remunerated. Even during the period of depression the Cape Government did the best it could for the teachers. What had led the hon. member for Greyville astray was that he must have included the native teachers. He (Col. Crewe) was not desirous of dictating to the Provincial Councils, but if the control of education was to remain with the Provincial Councils it was essential that they should show an aptitude to deal with the matter thoroughly well. What he hoped the Minister of Education would do was to use the undoubted influence the Government had to get the Administrator to deal with the subject. He hoped the Minister would accept the motion and would point out to the Administrator why this House was also concerned in the matter, because the neglect of primary education affected education throughout the higher grades. Taking the position as a whole they could easily get a lower grade teacher if he were paid a comparatively reasonable salary, but it was difficult to keep a good man on a low scale in face of the competition of the other Provinces.

For years past the Capo had been the training ground for teachers for the Northern Provinces—(hear, hear)—and the Cape did not begrudge it, but the Cape now asked the other Provinces to help it. The Cape was deserving of the sympathy of the other Provinces because of the sacrifices it had made in this matter. The failure of the Cape training institutions would affect the whole of South Africa, and it was impossible to suppose that the number of teachers coming forward would be adequate to the demand if more inducement were not offered. The motion was not in any shape an attempt to dictate on what was, for the time being at any rate, a purely provincial matter. The Administrator had stated that there had been a saving of £41,000 on the educational vote, but on the other hand he provided this year £20,000 for increases in teachers’ salaries. That was something to be thankful for, but it was not enough. He (Col. Crewe) did not think the Cape salaries should be raised to the high standard prevailing in the Transvaal, but there was a difference between the two standards which should be bridged over. The Administrator was inclined to building training institutions for teachers, but the danger was that these institutions might not be occupied. (Hear, hear.) It would be a very serious matter if the supply of teachers fell short, for the best teacher for up-country, particularly for farm schools and villages, was a teacher of South African birth and training—(cheers)—and it was the supply of these that would fail if we were not exceedingly careful.

said that throughout the whole of the Cape Province there was a feeling among teachers that they were underpaid, and that they were sacrificing their own interests if they did not leave the Cape. The important view of the pupil and the parent must not be lost sight of—(hear, hear)—for the grade of teacher was bound to sink unless the conditions were improved. The present regrettable state of affairs was due to the fact that the School Boards had not enough money with which to increase the emoluments of the instructors. Then it was distinctly said that the Provincial Council also had not adequate funds for the purpose. We had the Provincial Council saying that they could not raise the teachers’ salaries. The teachers went to the School Boards, and they got the same answer. What were they, then, to do? It seemed to him that it was a reasonable thing for the teachers to come to this House by petition, and that it was only right that the position of affairs should receive the earnest and serious consideration of the Government. What was the use of talking about higher education if they were going to neglect lower education? The present position in regard to teachers’ salaries in this Province was most unsatisfactory. They found in this Province, which had been largely the educator of the teachers, that man after man left this Province and went to other Provinces. He thought this House was perfectly within its rights in asking the Government to consider this question, and, if necessary, bring forward a measure dealing with this matter in this House, putting the financial relations in regard to education on a proper footing. The Provincial Council had not got the funds, and the School Boards had not got the funds to pay the teachers adequate salaries.

said that the matter before the House was an extremely important one, especially in view of the fact that a great deal depended on the education of the child. It was only when they had a good teacher that they could get good teaching He exceedingly regretted the word “strike ” having been introduced into the debate, as he thought the educational personnel stood far above anything so low as a strike. It had been said that if a new cattle disease was discovered, there would at once be enough money forthcoming to deal with it. Quite so. Cattle diseases fell under this Parliament; primary education did not. He agreed that the salaries of teachers were too low—to see a man with a wife and large family have to exist on £120 per year was really too bad. Although this matter fell under the Provincial Council, he hoped the Union Government would enter into communication with the Administrator, to see what could be done. Otherwise, he feared education in the Cape in days to come would feel the evil effects of the present attitude of the Administration. He was not in favour of the Union Parliament at once taking over the question of education, but something would have to be done for the teachers. He hoped, therefore, the Minister would accept the motion.

said that reference had been made to the strike of teachers at Prince Albert, where the employers failed to pay the wages actually earned by their employees, and the latter ceased working; it was a very different matter indeed from starting an agitation to demand impossible terms or to work up grievances. He thought the teachers at Prince Albert rather unwisely went faster than they need have done, and lost a good deal of sympathy extended to them from all sides by taking that precipitate action.

Apart from those considerations he thought enough had been said here to-day to indicate clearly that we were going on a dangerous course in having a class of teachers who were really not qualified for their positions, by reason of the fact that the salaries were so low that the better class teacher would not take on the work. He thought that was a very dangerous course. As to the average salary of teachers, the hon. member for East London had said that he thought the hon. member for Greyville had included the salaries of Mission School teachers, and that that set up a false basis. It seemed to him (Mr. Struben) that, even in the case of mission teachers, it was an extremely unwise course to follow, where they found themselves in the position of having a large number of coloured persons in their midst, as they had in the Cape, if they did not give them a sound education, fitting them for the walks in life which they were able to occupy. In regard to the Administrator’s position, he did not want to say anything about the way the Provincial Council of the Cape was administered, but they must certainly take cognisance of the fact that the Administrator, speaking for his Executive Committee and his Provincial Council, had stated in the clearest possible language that he could not find the money, with the resources at his disposal, to so adequately raise the salaries of teachers as to get a proper class of teacher for the schools of this Province. “That,” said Mr. Struben, “is not his fault; it is our fault. It does not only date from this Union Parliament; it dates back to the Union itself, for this reason, that we were trying very hard in the Cape under the right hon. member for Victoria West to show that we had a surplus—our undeveloped assets were good enough—on coming into Union, and we absolutely starved not one, but almost every Department of State before Union. In that striving the teaching profession was absolutely and lamentably neglected for several years before we came into Union.” Proceeding, the hon. member said that the result was that, when the Cape Province came into Union, the basis on which grants were made to the Provincial Council was an entirely false one. They ought to have seen when they estimated that, taking into account the progressive increases which ought to have taken place, the only safe basis for them was that such and such sum was the required sum for those services. They did not do that because they wanted to show they were solvent. The basis on which grants were made to the Provinces was false. The Transvaal was placed at a liberal figure. They were prosperous at that time, but not so the Cape, and they had not yet recovered. He submitted that in the interest of South Africa and not of the Cape Province alone, and in the interest of the teachers, Parliament should boldly take that matter in hand and see if something could not be done to better the conditions of the teachers of the Cape. How could they expect better-class men and women leaving the Universities to come into the teaching profession if they left that profession on the basis on which it was at the present time?

said he was very anxious that the motion might be adopted. What they wanted was something practical done in that matter. What had they to do? To ask for a new Financial Relations Bill? The time for that was last year, and many of those who were enthusiastic now were not in the same state of enthusiasm; they were afraid to vote against the Government or to put on fresh taxation or even to keep on what there was. There was serious discontent amongst the teachers in the Cape, and they were not getting the people into the service whom they required. That was particularly the case at the top and the bottom. In the mission schools they were depending on the churches, and in the country places they were giving the country people an education which that House ought to be ashamed of. That House could not be aware of the extremely serious handicap in which the country population were placed. At the other end they had secondary education which was in an extremely unsatisfactory state in the Cape Province. Was it right that they should flounder along in the hope of getting more money from the Government? It was most important that the localities should continue to contribute, and not less, but more. He was not sure that the per capita basis was the best plan, for that led to complications. Something better could be devised, and in that connection he referred to the plan put forward by himself and his hon. friend (Mr. Jagger) some years ago. The Central Government should take the responsibility of the salaries of the teachers upon themselves. That was an idea which would go very far in the future. It was the most fruitful financial idea which could be suggested at the present time in regard to the relations between the Union and the Provinces, and he hoped that the Government would carefully consider that. The localities should be left with the responsibility of the rest of the expenditure. It was idle to throw at the head of the Government a petition for a now Financial Relations Bill. A Commission was to be appointed, he understood, this year, and he proposed an amendment to add to the motion of the hon. member for Barkly: “And that the Government should consider the advisability of referring to any Commission which may be appointed to inquire into the financial relations between the Union and the Provinces the question of the proper method of administering education throughout the Union.”

said there had been a consensus of opinion in that House that the position of the teachers in the Cape Province was most unsatisfactory and that the salaries were too low. The Minister might say it was a Provincial matter in which he could not intervene. It was perfectly true that it was a matter primarily for the Provincial Council, but there was the responsibility of the Government and of that House, when any matter was brought before it, to assure itself that the Government had done all in its power to meet the Provincial Council. They from other Provinces gathered that the Administrator of this Colony was not altogether without influence in the doings of the Provincial Council, and the Provincial Council was asked to take his view of things. But as the Minister of Education, the fact that the position of teachers of the primary schools of this Province was unsatisfactory could not be a matter from which he could divest himself from all responsibility, and he (Mr. Creswell) would like to know if the Government had made representations to the Administrator? Had the Government assured themselves that the Administrator had made urgent representations to the Provincial Council to put the matter right? The Administrator of a Provincial Council was not at present responsible to the Council of a Province; unfortunately, in some of their opinions he was not. But he was a servant of the Minister and his colleagues and they on the cross-benches would like to know whether the Minister had represented that matter to the Administration, and failing that whether he would make representations to the Administration to have the matter set right, in deference to the expressed view of that House. When that was done a new situation might arise, but not until, for the Minister could say it was a Provincial Council matter and that his responsibility was negligible. Such representations from the Minister to the Administration and from the Administration to the Provincial Council might have a very great effect.

said a lot of irrelevant matters had been touched on in this debate, which had ranged from the salaries of teachers to national education, though the motion had nothing to do with the latter question. There was only one logical conclusion to draw from the debate—that primary and secondary education should be placed under the Union Government. It was all very easy to talk about making representations, but he hoped the hon. members for Barkly and Cape Town, Central, when speaking on the Budget and when they began to urge the Government to economise, would remember to-day’s speeches. (Laughter.) But on the Budget the Government would be told that they should retrench and economise, while to-day—a private members’ day—members spoke of spending and spending again. On Tuesday they were told to spend, and on Wednesday they were warned to be economical. (Laughter.) Did the hon. member know what had been done of late in regard to increasing teachers’ salaries? He referred to an old return asked for in the Cape Parliament in 1897, when Dr. Te Water was Colonial Secretary, from which it had appeared that Dr. Te Water had asked how many School Committees had paid their full share towards the salaries of the teachers. The Department paid on the £ for £ principle. If the School Committee paid £200, then the Department added £200 to it, so that the teacher received £400, even if his maximum was £500. The answer from the Minister was that not five per cent. of the School Committees paid the full amount. He did not wish to say that teachers here received as much salary as the Transvaal teachers. Neither did the Civil Servants—but hon. members never said anything about the allowances received by Civil Servants. The whole position was an extremely difficult one. The hon. member for Oudtshoorn had told him (the Minister) not to say that this was a matter which belonged to the Provincial Administration. He did not say so—the hon. member himself had said so last year when a member of the Select Committee on the Financial Relations Bill. This Parliament could not deal with the matter, and he hoped hon. members would discourage the sending in of petitions for that purpose. Of course, they could give the Provincial Council more money. At present the Cape, as appeared from the report of the Secretary of Education, paid in salaries £551,000. They could give the Cape Provincial Council an additional £153,000, as was required, but they could not instruct that Council to pay the teachers more. They could solve the difficulty in that way, by paying extra taxation. The question of school fees in the Cape had also been argued. He could tell hon. members that even in the Cape they were getting more and more to the free system. School fees at present amounted to £205,000, which was supplemented by the Treasury on the £ for £ principle. According to the Provincial estimates, education at the Cape cost £1,200,000, so that the school fees were a very small proportion of the total cost. Someone had urged that local authorities should have the right to levy special taxation for school purposes—that would become a very unpopular tax, as the people who had no children would object to pay such taxes The Cape had tried it and that was the result there, and the man without children had refused to pay for the education of other people’s children. When the money was paid by the Treasury everybody paid his share, and education was not made unpopular. (Hear, hear.) There were many difficulties in the way of the motion, but he thought that the amendment would serve a useful purpose if the whole question of lower education was inquired into. Of course, it was impossible to dictate to the Provincial authorities. He was prepared to accept Mr. Fremantle’s amendment, but wished it to be understood that in doing so he did not in any way wish to bind Parliament in regard to the question of Parliament taking over education from the Provincial Councils at the end of five years, since the bringing about of Union. That, of course, was a matter which would not be prejudiced in any way by the acceptance of the amendment.

said he could not accept the amendment. It seemed to him that the Minister wanted to shift his responsibility.

The amendment was agreed to, and the motion as amended adopted.