from C. de Villiers, teacher, for condonation of breaks in her service.

from M. Moller, praying that 58 days be added to his service for pension purposes.

from W. Proctor, Messenger of the Court, Willowvale, for a pension.

from E, Goddard, who purchased the farm Goddarton for the purpose of establishing a native township, but, after having effected several transfers to natives, was, in 1907, prevented by the Cape Government from transferring the remainder of his property, for compensation in respect of the losses consequently sustained by him.

from Gertrude Mostert, for relief.

from Frederick Werner, who was a member of the late Griqua Government, for relief.

from residents of Montagu, for the removal of the “colour bar” from the Transvaal Mines, Works and Machinery Regulations.

similar petition from residents of Beaufort West.

from P. J. Marx, formerly police-constable, and discharged as medically unfit, for relief.

from the widow of O. W. Ketterer, late sergeant of police, for relief.

from inhabitants of Fort Beaufort, for legislation providing for the Direct Popular Veto.

from J. S. Wallace, for condonation of a break in his service.

from A. Abdurahman and 192 other residents of Cape Town, for the removal of the “colour bar” from the Transvaal Mines. Works and Machinery Regulations.

Papers relating to grant of portion of Table Mountain plateau in favour of the Cape Town Municipality.

These papers were referred to the Select Committee on Waste Lands.

said he would like to ask the Prime Minister, in the absence of the Minister of Railways and Harbours, whether he could impress upon his colleague the necessity of placing on the Table the figures as to the working expenses of the railways during the past year? This information was absolutely necessary, if they were to discuss the Railway Budget.

†The PRIME MINISTER said he understood that his hon. friend had promised the hon. member for Port Elizabeth, Central, that these figures would be laid on the Table.

pointed out that, in regard to the railways, they had had no figures since the latter part of last year. The report of the Railway Board had not been presented, and the General Manager’s report referred to 1912. It was not fair to ask the House to discuss these matters without any figures available to hon. members.

said that on the cross-benches it was absolutely impossible to hear what was taking place between hon. gentlemen on the front benches. He would be glad if they could be informed as to what had taken place.

rose for the purpose of making an explanation for the benefit of the hon. member for Fauresmith, when

interposed with the remark that there was nothing before the House.

said there was something before the House. The figures before them in the Railway Budget were the Revenue and Expenditure Estimates for next year. They had no account of the revenue and expenditure for last year, so the Prime Minister could see how impossible it was for them to discuss the Railway Budget unless they knew what was done last year.

said they at that side of the House were as much entitled as hon. members on the other side to hear what was going on. It was unfair that they should know a discussion was going on and yet not know what it was about.

replied to a postponed question of Mr. W. B. Madeley (Springs) as follows: I have had careful inquiries made by the Inspector of White Labour and am unable to find that any of the Kleinfontein strike breakers who received compensation from the Government are now working on that mine. The management has given strict instructions that no such person is to be employed, and if any such persons are at work on the mine they must be there under an assumed name.

asked the Minister of Defence what amount of money the Defence Department have paid on premiums on horses insured for defence purposes in any one year, and what amount of money have the department received for death claims in the same year?

Until July 1, 1913, there was, except in the case of the Natal Militia, no system of horse insurance for which the Government had any direct financial responsibility. In the case of the Natal Militia, the system obtaining before Union and continued until June 30, 1913, was that members should pay a premium of 5 per cent, of the insured value, which was restricted to £35 in the case of officers’ horses and £30 in the case of other ranks. For the year 1912 the operation of this system resulted in a net loss to Government of nearly £4,000. Under the Defence Act the Government is only liable for the premiums, and these must not exceed 30s. a year for any horse The premiums are paid to the contracting insurance companies. For the nine months ending March 31, 1914 £7,611 was paid by Government in premiums. The insurance companies have paid out £308 on death claims for that period.

asked the Minister of the Interior whether the Government intends to introduce this session a Bill reviving practically the whole of the provisions of the Public Health Act of Natal?

As the hon. member is aware, such a Bill was introduced last year, but was not proceeded with owing to the opposition on the part of certain members of this House who belong to the medical profession. The revival of the provisions of the Natal Public Health Act would certainly be desirable, and if I could be certain that opposition would not be raised, I would be prepared to consider the reintroduction of the Bill which was before the House last session.

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) How many supernumerary warders are employed by the Department of Justice; (2) what are the pay and emoluments, hours of duty, and general conditions of service of these warders in the several Provinces; (3) in what respect do they differ from subordinate warders in pay, emoluments, hours of duty, and general conditions of service; (4) is it a fact that some supernumerary warders have two, three and even five years service as such; and (5) will the Minister consider the desirability of, in future, promoting to subordinate warders all supernumerary warders at the expiration of twelve months’ service?

(1) In the Capo of Good Hope, sixty; in the Transvaal, fifty-seven; in the Orange Free State, twenty-two. (2) They receive 4s. a day pay plus a free uniform in the Cape, and 4s. 3d. plus a free uniform in the Transvaal and Orange Free State. The hours of duty, like those of the ordinary warders, are dependent upon the exigencies of the particular prison institution to which they are attached. The general conditions of their service are set forth in Prison Regulation 147. They are appointed on a purely temporary basis subject to thirty clays’ notice at any time and have no rights or privileges other than such specially accorded them. They have vacation leave on full pay for thirty days in respect of each year of service and sick leave on full pay not exceeding one-eleventh of their service during each cycle of three years. (3) The pay of full warders is from 6s. to 8s. a day in the coastal districts with a local allowance added in the inland districts. They also receive free uniform and quarters or allowance in lieu thereof. These warders also have pension rights which supernumerary warders do not enjoy. (4) The answer is in the affirmative. (5) Promotion from the rank of supernumerary to that of full warder is governed by the Prison Regulation above quoted, which provides: “Such supernumerary officers shall be eligible for appointment to the rank of ordinary subordinate officers if they comply with the age and physical standard conditions and if satisfactorily passed through such course of probation and training as the Director may have authorised.” I may say that since the institution of the grade, one hundred and seventeen supernumerary warders have already been qualified and promoted to the higher rank I am not prepared to extend the privilege beyond the limits laid down by the regulation which has force of law.

asked the Minister of Mines and Industries: (1) Whether it is a fact that on the Van Ryn Estate Gold Mining Co. the mill engines, cyanide motors, and boilers are run and superintended by Indians at 5s. per day of twelve hours each; (2) when changing shifts at the week-end, do these Indians work eighteen hours continuously; (3) is it a fact that in at least one hauling engine-room on this mine there is no one in attendance from 4 p.m. to 7 a.m., the engine-driver being absolutely alone; if so, what steps are taken to safeguard life in the event of the driver meeting with an accident or being seized with illness whilst on duty during this period; (4) is the Minister aware that the compound and hospital roofs were recently painted by Cape boys at a wage of 2s. a day, and the mill engine-room, battery, crusher and cyanide by Kafirs at 1s. 6d. per day; (5) is it a fact that at another hauling engine-room on this property the boiler gauge glasses are placed in view of the hauling engine-driver, and the responsible white boiler attendant dispensed with; if so, in view of possible boiler explosion, consequent upon the driver’s attention being fixed upon his legitimate work of hauling, will the Minister give orders to the manager that this dangerous practice must immediately cease?

(1) The answer is in the negative. (2) The answer is in the affirmative. (3) The answer is in the affirmative. There is no necessity to interfere with the arrangement. (4) The answer is in the affirmative (5) The answer is in the affirmative. The practice is not dangerous.

asked the Prime Minister: (1) What communications, if any, have been made to the Government with regard to Earl Grey’s Dominion House scheme; (2) whether the Government, on behalf of the Union, intends to recommend to the country that the Union should participate in the great opportunity to centralise Dominion interests in a great central site in London; (3) what would be the financial obligation of such participation; and (4) what other parts of the Empire besides the Australian Commonwealth have indicated their approval of the scheme?

(1) Earl Grey has detailed his proposals in a recent communication addressed to the Prime Minister. (2) The Government has not yet decided upon the terms of the reply which should be returned to Earl Grey’s letter. In view, however, of the difficulty in raising money for the most ordinary requirements of the Union in the matter of railway construction, school buildings, irrigation, and other capital services of vital importance to the country, there does not seem to be any prospect of the Union being in a position, in the near future, to undertake the heavy obligation which participation in the scheme would involve. (3) The site is offered to the Dominions on a 99 years’ lease at a rental increasing progressively from £12,500 in 1915 to £30,000 per annum in 1918, at which figure it would remain fixed. Alternatively, the freehold, encumbered with certain reservations as to disposal, is offered at the price of £1,300,000; the cost of the building is estimated at £1,255,000; together (if freehold were purchased), £2,555,000. The Union Government’s share of the total cost would naturally depend upon the accommodation made available for our needs. No estimate of this has been attempted. (4) The hon. member seems to have been misinformed as to the Commonwealth’s participation in the scheme. The Commonwealth is already erecting its own building on an adjoining site. The Government is not aware that any part of the Empire proposed to be included in the scheme has indicated its approval thereof.

asked the Minister of the Interior whether he is aware that, owing to the insufficient addresses of voters in the Cape Province Parliamentary voters’ rolls, it is very difficult for officers of the post office to deliver postal matter addressed to such voters, and whether, in view thereof, he will give instructions to registering officers when compiling voters’ rolls to obtain and insert at least the name of the nearest post office to such voters opposite their names?

No, I am not aware that any such difficulty has occurred. The rolls are prepared strictly in accordance with law, and the particulars inserted therein have been found to meet the requirements of the electoral laws in every respect.

asked the Minister of Lands whether he can inform the House: (1) What is the number of pumping plants (including the Kimberley Waterworks) along the banks of the Vaal River below Vereeniging; (2) what is the estimated average quantity of water pumped per diem by these plants and the names of the owners of these plants; and (3) what is the number of further plants now in contemplation, or under the consideration of the riparian owners and the estimated quantity of water which plants under contemplation are likely to pump from the river?

It is regretted that the information asked for by the hon. member is not in the possession of the Government, as it has not been the custom, nor is it considered necessary, to register the particulars of every pumping plant erected by riparian owners along a public stream. To obtain the information desired would require a special and very lengthy investigation involving very considerable expenditure of money, which, under the circumstances, could not be justified.

asked the Minister of Agriculture: (1) How much cotton and tobacco was produced at the Piet Retief Experimental Farm during the years, 1909, 1910, 1911, 1912, and 1913; (2) what was the average price at which the produce of these two articles was sold in each of these years; (3) what number of tobacco plants was sold to farmers during these years, and what was the average price per year; and (4) what has been the total amount of revenue from sales of produce (including tobacco and cotton) from this experimental farm to date, and the total cost of producing the same?

(1) The station was not opened until the winter of 1910, so no crops were produced in 1909 and 1910. In 1911 the small plots of cotton and tobacco were destroyed by hail. The crops of 1912 were badly damaged by hail. The cotton did not recover from the hailstorms, but the tobacco, which was housed in the partially completed tobacco shed fetched £40 6s. 3d. In 1913 the tobacco realised £61 10s 10d., but both the tobacco and cotton crops were again seriously damaged by hail. (2) The two crops of tobacco which were sold realised from 3d. to 1s. per pound, averaging about 6d. per 1b. As already stated, the cotton crops were destroyed by hail and nothing was sold. (3) Approximately 86,000 tobacco plants were sold at 2s. 6d. per thousand. (4) The total amount of revenue received from the Piet Retief station is £280. It is not possible to furnish a statement showing exactly the cost involved in the production of the crops which realised the above sum of revenue as, in addition to cotton and tobacco, there are grown oats, manna, lucerne, mealies, beans, and peanuts; and several trees have also been planted. Further, the duties of the officers stationed at Piet Retief and whose salaries are charged against the vote of the station are not confined solely to experimental and other work on the farm, but embrace visits to farmers in the surrounding country for the purpose of advising and instructing them in various phases of agriculture. The expenditure on the Piet Retief station, independent of buildings and other permanent improvements, for the past five years, was £2,410 9s. 6d.

asked the Minister of the Interior whether he is aware that one of the effects of Transvaal Proclamation No. 8 of 1902 was to convert most of the stallholders in Paarlshoop into squatters; that for the twelve years since then these people have remained squatters, unable to resume legal possession of their leaseholdings; that those leaseholdings have remained unnegotiable all that time, with the natural result that values have diminished almost to vanishing point; and whether he can add anything to the reply to the question put by Mr. Emrys Evans in the Transvaal Legislative Assembly on the 1st August, 1907, or to the report of the Leasehold Townships Commission of 1912 (pages 116 and 117)?

With reference to parts 1 and 2 of the hon. member’s question, I must say I was not aware of the effects mentioned by him, or that the holders of leases of Even in Paarlshoop are otherwise than in the legal possession of their leases. In answer to the third part, the probable reason why the leases are unnegotiable and diminished in value is the fact that holders purchased underhand leases of Even which by law were required to be registered against the leaseholder’s title. In reply to the fourth part, nothing can be added to the reply given in the Transvaal Legislative Assembly on the 1st August, 1907, or to the report of the Leasehold Townships Commission, 1912, on this subject, but I am informed that the question of ownership of the land upon which Paarlshoop is situated is now the subject of legal proceedings in the Courts of the Transvaal.

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) How many persons, (a) European and (b) non-European, were tried for the crimes (i) of murder, (ii) of attempted murder, (iii) of culpable homicide, and (iv) of assault with intent to do grievous bodily harm during the year 1913 in the Provinces of the Cape of Good Hope, Natal, Orange Free State and Transvaal respectively; and (2) in how many of such cases of (i) murder, (ii) attempted murder, (iii) culpable homicide, and (iv) assault to do grievous bodily harm in each Province respectively was there evidence to show that the accused were under the influence or liquor at the time the alleged crimes took place (a) in the case of Europeans and (b) in the case of non-Europeans?

(1) The number of Europeans and non-Europeans respectively tried for murder during 1913 in the Cape was three Europeans and 43 non-Europeans; in Natal, no Europeans and 31 non-Europeans; in the Orange Free State, one European and nine non-Europeans; in the Transvaal, five Europeans and 108 non-Europeans. For attempted murder, in the Cape, one European and 45 non-Europeans; in Natal, no Europeans and 22 non-Europeans; in the Orange Free State, two Europeans and three non-Europeans; in the Transvaal, 10 Europeans and 21 non-Europeans. For culpable homicide, in the Cape, 10 Europeans and 189 non-Europeans; in Natal, six Europeans and 45 non-Europeans; in the Orange Free State, one European and six non-Europeans; in the Transvaal, 8 Europeans and 148 non-Europeans. For assault with intent to do, grievous bodily harm in the Cape, 45 Europeans and 806 non-Europeans; in Natal, 5 Europeans and 198 non-Europeans; in the Orange Free State, 21 Europeans and 134 non-Europeans; in the Transvaal, 80 Europeans and 1,036 non-Europeans. (2) Of the 57 persons convicted for murder, two were under the influence of liquor at the time of the crime, according to the evidence given in the case; both of these were non-Europeans. I regret that I have not been able to obtain the information in the other cases asked for by the hon. member. To obtain this information, it will be necessary to go through the records of all the cases. This would not only take considerable time, but would require the detailing of extra staff to do the work at the large centres. I trust, therefore, that the hon. member will not press for the information.

asked whether, arising out of the Minister’s reply, he would take steps to have a record kept in future at the courts, which would enable such statistics to be available.

said that, as far as murder cases and culpable homicide cases were concerned, there would be no difficulty in keeping records, because those cases would be Supreme Court cases; but if records had to be kept in the magistrate’s courts, it would mean throwing on the magistrates largely-increased duties. He would do what he could in the matter.

asked the Minister of Mines and Industries whether his attention has been drawn to the statement by Mr. Schumacher before the Royal Dominions Commission, as published in the “Cape Times” of the 7th April, from which it clearly appears that Mr. Schumacher, as representing the Central Mining and Finance Corporation, Ltd., is in favour of an amalgamation of the mines, although not considering it practicable at the present moment, for political and other reasons, and whether the Government is taking any steps to counteract the tendency which exists amongst the mining groups to amalgamate the mines, in view of the serious effect which the amalgamation of the Kimberley mines had on the population and town of Kimberley, thereby decreasing the general prosperity of the country, which will inevitably have the same effect on the Rand should amalgamation of the mines become an accomplished fact there ?

I am aware of the statement referred to, but understand that the evidence of the gentleman named in the question was against amalgamation. The question is of so academic a character at present that I do not think it calls for any action by the Government.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether his attention has been drawn to a plant called the “Spineless Cactus,” which is considered to be a very suitable fodder plant, and, if so, whether seed or plants can be obtained from any of the Government agricultural institutions?

Spineless cactus has been grown at the Botanical Experimental Station, Pretoria, since 1908. In the spring of 1909 and following years a few cuttings were distributed, while in 1912 and 1913 many hundreds were sent to various parts of the Union. Several varieties of Spineless Cactus are now being grown at all the Government agricultural institutions throughout the Union, and a large number of cuttings will be available for distribution during next planting season, in spring and summer. The price has been fixed at 3d. a cutting.

asked the Minister of Agriculture: (1) Who has been appointed as Field-cornet for Ward No. 2, Ermelo, in the place of the late General Johannes Grobler; (2) whether such appointment was made in pursuance of the recommendations of the inhabitants of the Ward and, if not, why not; and (3) will he lay on the Table of the House all petitions received by the Government from the inhabitants of the Ward on the subject of the appointment ?

(1) Mr. P. J. Steyn was appointed temporary Field-cornet for Ward Amsterdam in place of the late General Grobler on 20th December, 1913. (2) As far as I am aware no recommendations were made by the inhabitants of the Ward prior to the appointment. (3) Yes. I may add that Mr. P. J. Steyn had been employed by the Government from time to time as Sheep Inspector in the Ermelo district and that during General Grobler’s illness he acted as inspector in his place, and, seeing that Field-cornets in the Transvaal are mainly engaged in dealing with scab, it was thought best to appoint him as Field-cornet until such time as Field-cornets can be relieved of work connected with scab, which it is contemplated will be soon.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the fact that the people have asked for it, he is prepared to proclaim that there shall annually be a day of prayer throughout the Union for rain, with the stipulation that in those parts where it has rained before the fixed date, it is to be a day of thanksgiving instead of a day of prayer?

Should a request to that effect be made to the Government by one of the recognised church bodies of this country, the Government would be prepared to consider it.

asked the Prime Minister whether, in view of the severe drought, especially in the Western part of the Transvaal, through which the summer crops are a total failure, reducing many families to absolute destitution, the Government does not see its way to start relief works in those parts, and more especially in the Rustenburg district, as a means of enabling the heads of such families to earn sufficient money to buy food for themselves and their dependents?

replied: The Government feels the deepest sympathy with those who, on account of the great drought, find themselves in difficult circumstances. This condition of affairs is not, however, confined to the Rustenburg district, but is also being felt in some districts in other Provinces. On account of the recent industrial troubles, there exists also an abnormal amount of unemployment and indigency in some of the larger cities of the Union. It is not possible to relieve this state of affairs by means of relief works, which are not in themselves required. The Government hopes that the carrying out of the plans for irrigation and other development, to which the honourable the Minister of Finance referred in his Budget speech, will go a long way to mitigate the unemployment and indigency at present existing. In the meantime it is a task imposed by law upon the Provincial Administrations concerned to take the steps which may appear necessary in individual cases of distress.

asked the Minister of Defence: What quantity of mealies was bought for commando purposes during the late strike, and whether part was bought from co-operative societies; if so, how much and if not, why not?

I am unable to state the exact quantity of mealies purchased for commandos. Some 600 bags of mealies were purchased from co-operative societies. Purchases had to be made under conditions of urgency and at places most convenient of access. Commandants made their own purchases of mealies and other supplies in the most convenient manner, except where a Government supply depot was established. Where conditions and circumstances permitted, supply depots obtained their supplies from co-operative societies, if the quality of supplies and the terms offered were favourable.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours what are the revised rates of depreciation on the various items of railways and harbours upon which the Estimates for the current financial year are based?

laid the following return on the Table: The revised rates which have been provisionally adopted in order to arrive at the provision to be made for depreciation in the Estimates of Expenditure for the year 1914-15 are as follows, expressed as percentage of the original cost of the assets: Assets—Rails, sleepers and fastenings, rate 3⅓ per cent.; Bridges, 3⅓ per cent.; Buildings: Wood and iron, 4 per cent.; Brick and stone, 11/2 per cent Locomotives (allowing two boilers per locomotive), 5 per cent.; Carriages, 4 per cent.; Wagons, 4 per cent.; Motor vehicles, 20 per cent.; Jetties, wharves, quays, and sea walls: Wood, 5 per cent.; Iron and steel, 4 and 5 per cent.; Masonry, 1/4 per cent.; Tugs and launches, 53/4 per cent.; Dredgers, 71/2 per cent.; Floating docks, 5 per cent.; Coaling appliances, 5 per cent.; Machinery, 6 2-3rds. per cent.; Tarpaulins, 25 per cent. Figures have been quoted in respect of the principal assets only. To include each class of asset treated separately by the Administration would entail an extensive list, which presumably is not desired.

The Minister laid the return on the Table.

asked the Minister of Education what was the average number of children enrolled in State or State-aided schools in each of the Provinces during 1912-13, distinguishing between Europeans and others, and giving the proportions of each such class in the various Provinces and in the Union?

replied: The average number of children enrolled in State and State-aided schools is worked out for the school or calendar year. The latest figures available are for 1912, and will be found on pages 52 to 54 of the Under-Secretary for Education’s annual report, which has just been published. The figures are as follows:

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) When will the new deviation on the Natal main line between Estcourt and Mooi River be open for traffic; and (2) have contracts been entered into for the carriage of certain timber over the existing line between these points, and how long is it anticipated that it will take to complete this work?

(on behalf of the Minister of Railways and Harbours) replied: (1) It is expected that the Estcourt-Mooi River deviation will be opened for coastwards traffic on or about May 18, and that it will be ready for the passage of trains in both directions some time early in July. (2) No such contracts have been entered into.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) When was the report of Mr. Macpherson on the proposed routes for an auxiliary coal line in Natal handed to the Railway Administration; (2) when will this report be laid on the Table of the House, and what is the cause of delay; (3) have copies of this report already been furnished to any private individuals or bodies, and, if so, to whom, and on what dates?

(on behalf of the Minister of Railways and Harbours) replied: (1) Mr. Macpherson’s report is dated 10th June, 1913, but it was slightly altered, as a result of a further inspection, and was finally forwarded to the Engineer-in-Chief on the 14th July. It was submitted by the Engineer-in-Chief to the General Manager on the 11th August. (2) The report will be laid upon the Table at the earliest possible date, possibly some time next week. It is being printed in Blue-book form, with a report by the Commissioners on the alternative main line proposals, and further engineering reports on inspections subsequently carried out, with the view of obtaining a suitable connecting line between the existing main line in the vicinity of Maritzburg and the route inspected by Mr. Macpherson. Special maps, illustrating these reports, have had to be prepared, and slight delay has taken place in completing the lithographing work, otherwise the reports would have been laid before Parliament at an earlier date. (3) Copies of Mr. Macpherson’s report were forwarded to the secretary to the Natal Coal Owners’ Association, the secretaries to the Durban and Pietermaritzburg Chambers of Commerce, the secretary to the Durban Harbour Advisory Board, and Colonel Leuchars, who were informed that in view of the strong desire expressed that the particulars should be made known and the fact that non-compliance might lead to misinterpretation, it had been decided to furnish a copy of the report confidentially, on the clear understanding that it was treated as such and was not intended for publication, for the reason that further investigations were being made in connection with the proposals, and that the report could not be regarded as complete. The complete reports and maps, which will shortly be presented to Parliament, have not been seen by any person outside the Government, so far as I am aware.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether the contract for the supply of certain railway locomotives and coaches recently negotiated between the Railway Administration and a German firm of manufacturers has yet been signed; if not, what is the reason for such delay, and will it prevent delivery of the plant by the date specified when the tenders were invited?

(on behalf of the Minister of Railways and Harbours) replied: The contract for the locomotives has been signed, and the work is in hand. The contract for the passenger coaches has not been signed, as certain details have yet to be arranged with the contractors. The Advisory Engineer in London has visited Germany for the purpose of discussing matters with the contractors, and it is hoped that the negotiations now in progress will be sufficiently advanced within the next ten days to admit of the contract being signed. Tenders do not give specific dates, but quote for delivery within so many weeks or months of approval of drawings or settlement of contract.

asked the Minister of Lands what was the revenue received from the public sale of Government timber in the Midland Conservancy (a) during the month of March, 1913, and (b) during the month of March, 1914?

The revenue received by the Forest Department from the public sale of Government timber in the Midland Conservancy amounted to (a) £1,984 14s., during the month of March, 1913, and (b) £1,198 14s., during the month of March, 1914.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether instructions have been given to the Railway Administration to refund the superannuation money to those strikers who are not to be taken back in the service; (2) when will this money be paid out to the men; and (3) whether instructions have been given that all those strikers who were reinstated at lower rates of pay shall, as from the 1st April, be paid at the rates they were in receipt of prior to the strike?

(on behalf of the Minister of Railways and Harbours) replied: As soon as the Strike and Service Amendment Bill becomes law, effect will be given to the provisions therein contained.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether he has examined the numerous petitions presented to his predecessor by the inhabitants concerned, praying for the construction of a railway from Pretoria to Magaliesberg Station; (2) whether the survey for the construction of a railway line between those places has been made by the Railway Board, as promised by his predecessor and himself, and, if so, to what decision did the Board come in this matter; and (3) if the survey has not yet been undertaken, when will a commencement with the same be made ?

(on behalf of the Minister of Railways and Harbours) replied: (1) Representations have been made by certain public bodies and others interested in regard to the desirability of constructing a line of railway from Pretoria to Magaliesberg Station, and such representations have been considered by the Government and the Administration. (2) The country between Pretoria and Magaliesberg has, on several occasions, been examined by representatives of the Administration, but the route has not actually been surveyed, nor has the district been specially inspected by the Railway Board. I am not aware of having made any promise that this would be done, neither can I trace that any such promise was made by my predecessor in office. (3) It is not proposed to carry out any survey along this route at present; but the claims of this and other districts are receiving consideration, and will be borne in mind by the Government when the next railway construction programme is being decided upon. At the present time inquiries are being made with the view of ascertaining to what extent the route of a probable line between the points mentioned would be affected by the proposed large irrigation scheme at Hartebeestpoort.

asked the Minister of Defence: (1) Whether he is aware: (a) that at the time of the strike the inhabitants of the Transvaal, on the order of officers commanding the Defence Forces, supplied goods and cattle for the use of such forces according to valuation by and on receipt given by the said officers; (b) that subsequently payment was not only made according to such valuation, but with considerable reduction, and at prices much lower than the said inhabitants could have obtained in the open market; and (c) that owing to such action, there is great dissatisfaction amongst the inhabitants; and (2) whether he is prepared to take the necessary measures without delay, to see that justice and equity are meted out in this matter, thereby restoring contentment amongst these people?

(on behalf of the Minister of Defence) replied: I am aware of the facts set out in this, question, and have already issued instructions that an investigation should be held into cases of claims which have been reduced below normal local market values. Payment at the rates claimed will be made in all cases in which it appears, as the result of local investigation, that these rates were fair and reasonable, having regard to local conditions, and not only to current market rates in the larger centres.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether he is aware that 25 children, who were formerly conveyed on the Springs-Ermelo railway line to the Government school at Trichardts, are no longer thus conveyed, and that they and 15 other children are consequently deprived of education; and, if so, whether he will be prepared, after due inquiry, to make the necessary provision for the conveyance by rail of these children to the said school?

(on behalf of the Minister of Railways and Harbours) replied: This matter has already formed the subject of inquiry, and correspondence has taken place between the Railway Administration, the secretary to the local School Board, and the Transvaal Education Department. I am advised that prior to certain alterations made in the train service on the Germiston-Breyten line in November last, 20 children travelled from a point about five miles distant to Trichardts station for the purpose of attending school. The train by which they travelled to school now reaches Trichardts nearly three hours earlier than formerly, and is therefore much too early for the children. This is unfortunate, but the alterations in the train service were necessary, and the Administration, while always ready to do what it can to provide reasonable school connections, cannot sacrifice other interests in order to make its train service fit in with the school hours. There is still a convenient train for the children returning from morning school at Trichardts, and unless some other arrangement can be made for the education of these children, the question of providing suitable transport facilities for the journey to school would appear to be one for the Transvaal Education Department. There are suitable connections to enable the children to attend an afternoon session at Trichardts, and also trains to take them to and from school at Bethal about 16 miles distant from the point where they entrain, but it is understood the education authorities do not favour either alternative.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs: (1) Whether he is aware that there is a growing dissatisfaction amongst the public of Willemsdal with regard to the post office there; and, if so, what he intends to do to put a stop to that state of affairs; and (2) Whether he promised a deputation in October, 1913, to place the said post office midway between the railway station and the village, and, if so, what are the reasons why he has not given effect to that promise?

(1) I am aware that a certain section of the public in and around Willemsdal is dissatisfied with the post and telegraph office being located at Greylingstad station, and I am endeavouring to meet the reasonable requirements of this section of the community by the appointment of a post office agent in the township of Willemsdal if one can be secured at a salary commensurate with the work to be performed. (2) The agreement arrived at in October last was that the sub-post office at Greylingstad was to be continued for the time being and that a postal agency was to be opened at Willemsdal pending inquiries as to whether both sections of the community, namely, those desiring the post office to remain at Greylingstad and those who wished it removed to Willemsdal could not be satisfied by the establishment of a department office on erf 318, or on a site outside the Willemsdal township at a point midway between the church and the existing post office at Greylingstad. The agency was opened at Willemsdal as agreed to but was subsequently closed in consequence of the demands of the agent in respect of remuneration being in excess of the value of the services rendered. As regards the provision of a central office to serve both sections of the community no unanimity could be arrived at. Further effort is being made, as stated above to secure a postal agent at Willemsdal with a view to re-opening the agency there.

asked the Minister of Native Affairs: (1) Whether it has been brought to his notice (a) that the natives employed at the lime and cement works near Ventersburg station are not under proper control after working hours; (b) that many thefts are committed in the neighbourhood of the works, presumably by the natives employed at those works, and that thereby the surrounding cattle farmers suffer severe losses, and (c) that no police are stationed there; (2) whether he will forthwith institute an inquiry into this state of affairs and take the necessary steps to have the natives placed under proper control after working hours; and (3) whether he will make the necessary representations for adequate police protection either at the works or at Ventersburg station?

(1) I am glad that the hon. member has brought this matter to notice. I find that (a) since October last there has been not a little difficulty as regards the control of natives congregated at the cement work's in question, mainly in respect of those temporarily employed by contractors as distinct from those employed by the company; (b) frequent complaints have been made of thefts and other crimes in the vicinity of the works, and (c) no police post has as yet been established there. (2) and (3) Steps are now being taken to establish a police post at the cement works as a temporary measure, and in conjunction with the Minister of Justice I will cause further inquiries to be made with a view to suitable action in the way of ensuring proper control and protection.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs whether, in view of the bulk and weight of embossed literature for the blind, and the consequent great cost of postage on the same, the Government will take steps to secure the reduction of the ordinary rate of postage on such literature coming to South Africa?

The Department has been advised that in connection with the supplementary proposals at the forthcoming Postal Union Congress in September next, the Imperial Postmaster-General will raise the question of extending greater postal privileges to literature intended for the blind, and the representative of the Union will be instructed to support any reasonable concession in this direction.

asked the Minister of the Interior: (1) Whether the Economic Commission took evidence in the Transkei as to the cost of living in the Transkeian Territories, and, if not, why not; (2) whether the representations and statistics on this subject which were laid on the Table of the House on the 2nd April, 1912, and the resolution of the House passed on the 23rd April, 1912, expressing the desirability of including the Civil Servants of the Transkei in any scheme for the provision of local allowances in the Union were laid before that Commission; and (3) whether these representations, statistics and resolution will be laid before the Civil Service Commission in connection with its present inquiries into the question of the readjustment of the local allowances to Civil Servants?

(on behalf of the Minister of Finance) replied: The replies to the several items of the hon. member’s question are as follows: (1) The Economic Commission did not take evidence in the Transkeian Territory. The terms of reference to the Commission confined inquiries to the Witwatersrand and other industrial centres. (2) The answer is in the negative. (3) This has already been done.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether it is a fact that 77 persons have been furnished by the South African Railway Administration with gold badge life passes on the South African Railways, and that in addition to this number the following gentlemen have quite recently been also awarded gold badge life passes, viz., Sir Thomas Price, Sir David Hunter, Mr. W. W. Hoy, Mr. A. J. Robb and Mr. T. S. McEwen, making a total of 82 medals issued, each entitling the holder to travel for the rest of his life on the South African Railways at the expense of the taxpayer; (2) if so, under what Act or regulation have the gold medals been awarded; (3) what authority is responsible for the selection of the persons to whom gold badges are given, and upon what basis has the selection been made; (4) what is the estimated cost of awarding these life passes and under what heading is this sum provided for in the Estimates; (5) where were the gold badges made, how many have been or were ordered, and what is the cost per badge; and (6) are any more to be issued, and, if so, to whom and when?

(on behalf of the Minister of Railways and Harbours) replied: (1) The hon. member’s information is not quite correct, as the gold badge life passes were issued over three years ago to members of the Executive Council, including members of the Executive of the several Provinces at the date of Union, and to Sir David Hunter, Sir Thomas Price and Mr. T. S. McEwen; and they were issued a few months later, to the other gentlemen mentioned. (2) and (3) Prior to Union all colonies, except Natal, issued inter-railway free passes for life to every member of the Executive Council. The Natal Government issued free passes to certain members of the Executive only, and, on the consummation of Union, it was decided by the Railway Board to place all members of the Executive Council—past and present—on the same footing. The passes then issued were renewed annually, but it was considered by the Administration that the cost of the annual leather backed passes and the labour and expense entailed, in collection, renewal and distribution, would, in time, more than cover the cost of gold badges, hence the decision to dispense with the annual passes, in respect of those considered to be entitled to passes for life, and to substitute therefor a gold badge. Sir David Hunter was granted a life pass by the late Natal Government. I may mention that it is the practice on the British railways to issue gold and silver passes to the directors and the chief officers of the companies. (4) This is not ascertainable, as no record is kept of the journeys made by holders of life passes. Life passes are treated in exactly the same way as those issued annually to members of Parliament. As a matter of fact, over 50 per cent of the holders are members of Parliament, or occupy positions which would entitle them to annual passes. (5) Several of the badges were made in Johannesburg and the remainder in Cape Town. Ninety-two have been made The cost per badge is 30s. (6) Not at present. The hon. member runs no immediate risk. (Laughter.)

Why could the badges not be made of bronze?

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs: (1) How many automatic stamp delivery machines are there in the Union; (2) how many times have these machines failed since their establishment; (3) how many applications have been received from members of the public asking for refunds, in consequence of such failures; (4) how many of these applications have been acceded to and how many refused; and (5) in the latter case, what reason was alleged for the refusal ?

(1) Thirteen machines. (2) The failures for each machine averaged 13 since the first introduction of the machines. (3) Four hundred and fifty. (4) and (5) All applications for refunds have been entertained, except in those instances where the evidence and the amount of money in the machine have not supported the claims. It may be added that these machines sell approximately 700,000 stamps annually, and that the proportion of claims for refund works out at about one for every 1,500 transactions. The machines are a very great public convenience, and every endeavour is being made to maintain them in continuous working order. (Hear, hear.)

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he intends to introduce legislation during the present session extending the provisions of the Transvaal Law on Co-operative Societies to the whole Union; and, if not, why not?

A Bill has been drafted on the lines indicated by the honourable member, but on account of the immense amount of business before the House, it will not be possible to introduce it this session.

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) Whether he is aware that there is no magistrate’s dwelling at Vredefort, and that the magistrate is consequently obliged to board in the hotel, where he sometimes comes into contact with people who are concerned in cases which he has to decide; and (2) whether he will have this state of affairs remedied without delay?

(1) The officer stationed at Vredefort is not a magistrate, but has only a clerical status. The Government has not yet succeeded in finding the funds to supply all substantive magistrates with residencies. There is no intention of providing houses for officers below the rank of magistrate. (2) Under the circumstances stated in (1), the answer is in the negative.

asked the Minister of Justice whether he is aware that there is no proper court house at Kopjes in which the Periodical Court can sit, and whether he will have this state of affairs remedied without delay?

replied: Provision has been made on the Estimates before the House for the building of a new court house at Kopjes.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether his attention has been drawn to statements alleged to have been made by Sir Arnold Theiler, Director of Veterinary Research, to the effect (1) that as the result of his recent investigations, he is convinced that wrong lines have hitherto been followed by the authorities in fighting the disease known as scab; (2) that the information contained in text-books on the subject is unreliable; and (3) that the Scab Act as at present framed is partially ineffective for the extermination of the disease; and, if so, whether, in view of the far-reaching effects upon the wool industry of this country, if the alleged statements are correct, he is prepared to take steps to ascertain the facts, and, if necessary, to issue amended regulations under the Scab Act, or even submit amending legislation for meeting the new conditions which have arisen?

Investigations conducted by Mr. Shilston and Sir Arnold Theiler have proved that the life cycle of the scab insect is shorter by two or three days than was originally supposed. The regulations dealing with scab have been amended accordingly, and will shortly be published. There is no necessity to introduce fresh legislation on the subject.

asked the Minister of the Interior: (1) What was the cost of the motor launch at Robben Island; (2) what 1s the cost of its upkeep; and (3) what purpose does it serve?

(on behalf of the Minister of the Interior) replied: (1) The motor launch at Robben Island is a converted whale boat, the cost of engine and installation being £75 10s. (2) Approximately £1 per mensum for petrol. (3) In calm weather it is used instead of a rowing boat in connection with the landing of cargo from the Pieter Faure, and in cases of urgency, when weather permits, it is used for journeys to Cape Town. It is also used by the staff for purposes of recreation.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours what was the total tonnage of goods consigned during the year 1913 from Delagoa Bay to Klerksdorp, and stations south of Klerksdorp to Fourteen Streams?

(on behalf of the Minister of Railways and Harbours) replied: 1,077 tons, including 646 tons for Klerksdorp and 33 tons for Vierfontein.

asked the Minister of Lands whether the Government has yet dealt with the position of the settlers at Mooibank, and, if not, what is the cause of the delay?

The Government is awaiting the receipt of certain detailed information from Pretoria before communicating its decision to the settlers. It is expected that a communication will be addressed to them at an early date.

asked the Minister of Finance whether, in view of the Economic Commission’s report showing that the cost of living in Kimberley is higher than it is in Johannesburg, the Government intends to raise the local allowance to Civil Servants, including railway servants, in Griqualand West, to that which is now in force in the Transvaal?

The whole question of local allowance to Civil Servants, including railway servants, is under consideration by the Public Service Commission and the Railway Administration respectively. It is not possible to state at this stage to what extent, if at all, Kimberley may be affected by the result of the present inquiries.

asked the Minister of Defence: (1) Whether he is aware that the section of the Citizen Defence Force who were drilled at Queen’s Town through the medium of Dutch received their rifles and uniforms long after the others; and, if so (2) what is the reason for such differential treatment?

asked that the question be allowed to stand over.

asked the Prime Minister: (1) Whether he is aware that, notwithstanding that the present number of horses and mules in the Union is fully sufficient for the wants of the country, large numbers of horses and mules are continually being imported from other countries and that such a practice tends to the ruin of horse and mule breeding in South Africa; and (2) whether he will make provision for an import duty of say £5 or £10 on all horses, mules, and donkeys imported into the Union from oversea countries, except on such animals as are required for stud purposes?

(1) The increase in the imports of horses, donkeys, and mules has not been very large, as the following figures will show: Horses, mares and geldings, 1911, 725; 1912, 627; 1913, 836. Donkeys and jackasses, 1911, 100; 1912, 99; 1913 140 Mules, 1911, 3,074: 1912, 2,582; 1913, 3,938. As far as horses and donkeys are concerned, the increase is due to the facilities given for the introduction of pure-bred animals for breeding purposes and in the case of mules to the high prices ruling for these animals on account of their scarcity. (2) The reply is in the negative.

asked, the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether he is aware that, when travelling on the South African Railways, Mr. “Matabele ” Thompson is accustomed to claim an entire compartment for his own use, and upon what does Mr. Thompson base his claim; (2) has an employee of the South African Railways, who is also a Civil Servant, been reduced as the result of a complaint lodged by Mr. Thompson; and (3) in investigating the charge made by Mr. Thompson, were the gentlemen who sent in their names as witnesses called; if not, why not?

(1) No, nor is there any ground for this insinuation. (2) Yes, but in status only, as a result of an inquiry conducted for the purpose of investigating the complaint. (3) No one volunteered to appear as a witness. The employee against whom the complaint was lodged was asked by the Inquiry Officer whether he had any witnesses to call. He replied that the chief steward of the train was the only one who knew anything of the incident; and the chief steward was called and gave evidence.

asked the Minister of Justice whether he is satisfied that the amount of threepence per day allowed to the police for uniform is adequate; if so, is he prepared, in cases where application may be made, to provide uniforms in lieu of the threepence per day; if not, why not?

As notice of this question was only given yesterday, and as I have had to communicate with the Commissioner of Police on the subject, I shall be glad if this question can stand over in the meantime.

asked the Minister of the Interior whether he will lay upon the Table of the House a return of all Government officials of each department, including military and Cape police, who have reached the superannuation age, stating the reasons for their not being retired as required by the Public Service and Pensions Act?

replied: It occurs to me that the honourable member may have overlooked the provisions of sections 30 (1), 36 (3) of the Public Service and Pensions Act, 1912. Possibly the return already laid upon the Table (on the 2nd February last) in terms of these sections will meet the honourable member’s requirements and avoid the need for putting departments to the labour of preparing further returns. I would also invite the honourable member’s attention in so far as concerns the services—to section 40 (1) of the Act.

had given notice of the following question for April 7: To ask the Minister of Agriculture: (1) Whether he read the article of Mr. Goemans on “Lamziekte” in “Ons Land,” of Saturday last; (2) whether he is aware that Mr. Goemans sent an article on “Lamziekte” to the Chief Veterinary Surgeon last year with the request that it might be published in the “Agricultural Journal,” but that this was refused, in spite of the fact that Mr. Goemans was prepared to explain all technical terms; (3) can Dr. Theiler say whether lamziekte is, according to Mr. Goemans, a self-poisoning or auto-intoxication, or whether it is an affection of the nagus caused by too much alkali in the blood, and whether lamziekte can be compared to milk fever in Europe; and (4) what reasons had Dr. Theiler for accepting that lamziekte was caused by a vegetable poison which was supposed to accumulate in the muscles, seeing that the search for that imaginary poison has been costing the Government thousands of pounds for many years past?

(1) The answer is in the affirmative. (2) Such an article was submitted for publication in the “Agricultural Journal,” but was couched in language of too technical a character and was unsupported by any evidence of the correctness of the theories advanced. Government Veterinary Surgeon Goemans was afforded an opportunity of establishing the validity of certain claims contained in the article, but he did not offer to amend it in the manner indicated, in fact, the article is of such a nature that amendment would seem impracticable. He was also informed that the Government did not object to the article being offered to any scientific journal which cared to publish it. (3) and (4) Sir Arnold Theiler reports that there is no evidence that gallamziekte is an auto intoxication or an affection of the nagus caused by too much alkali in the blood. Milk fever and gallamziekte cannot be compared, and the highest authorities in Europe are unable at present satisfactorily to explain the cause of milk fever, which is connected with calving. The cumulative poisoning theory was brought forward as a possible explanation of both the facts observed by farmers and of experimental results obtained by the Veterinary Research Branch of the Agricultural Department. It has never been maintained that the cumulative poison theory is the only possible explanation, and any expenditure in connection with lamziekte was incurred in endeavouring to ascertain the cause of disease and not with a view of either proving or disproving the poison theory.

(for Mr. Alexander, Cape Town, Castle) moved that the petition from G. A. Jenkin, who, in 1904, was retrenched from the service of the Central South African Railways, and was five weeks later re-employed in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs at Bloemfontein, praying for the condonation of the said break in his service, or for other relief, presented to this House on the 14th March, 1913, be laid upon the Table of the House, and, if agreed to, that it be referred to the Select Committee on Pensions, Grants and Gratuities.

The motion was agreed to.

moved that all papers in connection with the payment of claims for damage by fire to gum trees on the farm Rusthof, on the night of 26th June, 1912, be laid on the Table of the House.

The motion was agreed to.

laid the papers on the Table.

moved that in the opinion of this House: (1) The whole of the staff of the Prisons Department should be placed under “the Services” (as is the case with the Police Force), and not limited, as at present, to such of the staff of the Prisons Department as are subordinate officers; and (2) greater opportunities for promotion should be offered to subordinate officers of the Prisons Department. He said that the matter which he wished to bring before the House was one that he brought up last session. Unfortunately, he was somewhat late in the session when he did so, and was unable to pursue the matter to a satisfactory conclusion. This was after the publication of Prison Service Order No. 4, which came into force on April 1. At that time he took exception to the Director of Prisons purporting to make a regulation in regard to matters of pay and conditions of service, and he took exception because it was laid down in section 88 (1, b) of the Prisons and Reformatories Act that the Governor General might make regulations not inconsistent with this Act and prescribing mode of payment, conditions of service, etc., of persons employed in convict prisons, etc. He held that these Orders should first have been approved by the Governor-General and published in the “Gazette.” That matter, he understood, had now been remedied, and was regulated by Prison Regulation 164, which had been duly an proved by H.E. the Governor-General. In moving the first part of his present motion, he wished for a moment to glance at the Public Service and Pensions Act of 1912, section 1 of which said that the public service should consist of: (a) Administrative and clerical divisions; (b) general division; and (c) the services as defined by section 37. Section 37 said that “the Services ” should mean one or other of the following organisations: (1) The Permanent Defence Force; (2) the police force; (3) such of the staff of the Prisons Department as are subordinate officers as defined by Act 13, 1911, in that department. Now they saw in section 37 that the whole of the police force came under “the Services” and that in regard to the Prisons Department only such officers as were subordinate came under the Prisons Department. He would ask the Minister of Justice what was the reason for this differentiation. He might be told, as indeed he had already been told, by the Minister, that in making this differentiation they were following the position which obtained in three out of the four Provinces of the Union, but he thought the Minister of Justice would agree with him that that was no argument if he could show, as he hoped to do, that the principle was bad, both in regard to having a contented service and a more efficient administration.

In Natal at one time every superior officer had practically risen from the ranks. What was the position now? Section 4, sub-section 2, of the Public Service and Pensions Act laid down that except in the case of a female officer every person when appointed should be of the age of 16 years or more and under the age of 25 years. That formed an impassable barrier to the promotion of subordinate officers to the superior office. It was impossible for one who had gone through the different stages in rank of warders to reach the position of a first-class chief warder before reaching the age of 25 years. He hoped he had shown that at the present time it was futile for a subordinate officer in the Prison Department to think of reaching superior rank. He thought that that was a very bad principle indeed. He thought that so long as that condition prevailed they could never hope to obtain a good class of recruit for the Prisons Department, nor did he think that it made for a contented service. He knew subordinate officers who had not only studied law but had passed law examinations, but under the condition of things that prevailed to-day those men were handicapped by being altogether barred from promotion. They got officers transferred from other departments of the public service to superior positions in the Prisons Department—men who knew nothing about the administration of prisons. The thing was bad from every way they liked to look at it, and he hoped the Minister of Justice would see his way to have the law amended. At present they had in this country only two first-class institutions, the Central Prison at Pretoria and the gaol at Johannesburg. In the second-class they had a great divergence of institutions. They had the De Beers Prison, the Cinderella Prison, and others. In his opinion there should be more of the first-class institutions, and then there would be a greater chance of chief warders raising themselves to be first-class chief warders. It was laid down that no prison for non-Europeans could be classed as a first-class institution, and he thought that should be altered.

said that as the motion stood on the paper, but not as it had been spoken to by the hon. member, he was entirely in sympathy with the second part of it. Unfortunately in the Act of 1912 certain provisions were included which he was quite sure were not intended to have the effect which they had subsequently had The hon. member had drawn attention to section 37 of the Act, which laid down what the “services” should be. Unfortunately there was another section of the Act, section 4, which in laying down provisions as regarded administrative and clerical positions, made certain conditions which must be complied with before officers could be taken into that division. It did not make an exception for the whole service so that they could transfer any official from the services to the administrative and clerical division. Parliament probably did not intend the law to have that effect, but the law officers of the Crown have ruled that an officer of the services could not join the clerical and administration division unless he conformed to all the conditions of section 4, and he agreed that that was a hardship. That was a question to which the Department was entirely sympathetic. Representations were made to the Minister of Interior that when the Public Service Act was amended section 4 should be altered, and it would be noticed from the report of the Commission that that matter was specifically alluded to. When the section was amended it would be possible for any warder or any official in the Prisons Department to be promoted to the highest post in the prisons service. That was what he thought the hon. member had meant by the second part of his motion, and that seemed to him to be the natural meaning of the motion, but the hon. member further wanted an entire re-organisation of the prisons service by having more first-class gaols, and that would be a very serious question to undertake. It was a question that was not opened by the motion. The first part of the motion also raised a question of great difficulty. A Select Committee of the House a few years ago had seriously considered the Public Service Act and had deliberately laid down the position which the House had confirmed since. Why then did the hon. member attack it? The reasons mentioned for making the change were, he thought, very weak.

If they took away the argument about promotion he did not know that any other argument had been adduced by the hon. member for taking away this distinction. It was a distinction drawn through the services even before Union, excepting Natal. There would be difficulties in wiping away this differentiation with the stroke of a pen. What about the head office staff? Were they going to include them or not? If they did include them they might be doing a great injustice. Where would they get a fully qualified accountant to join as warder?

What do you do in the police ?

We take an accountant, put him into uniform, and give him a fictitious rank. He is no more a policeman than I am.

Do the same.

Why go round that way to give promotion when you are actually not doing so. Continuing, the Minister said that they were not going to get an accountant to join as a warder. Besides, there were other technical advisers. The Director of Prisons was also Secretary of Justice. He would have to go into uniform under this suggestion and he could not be Secretary of Justice. He also went on to refer to the cases of inspecting magistrates, and said he thought that the hon. member’s object was that, if there was a deserving warder, there should be nothing to prevent him being promoted to the highest rank. There he was with him. The department was with him, and the Public Service Commission was with him. He thought that the first part of the hon. member’s motion went too far, and, if carried into effect, would lead to results they could hardly contemplate. It would mean the entire reorganisation of the present service. He suggested that part should be withdrawn, and he said he would do everything he could to afford greater opportunity for promotion. This would need legislation, and he did not know when the Minister of Interior could bring in an amending Bill. Still the matter would be given attention. In conclusion, he said he could not accept the first part of the motion.

said that the Minister had raised difficulties out of his very fertile imagination, and he thought that all the difficulties mentioned could be surmounted. As things existed to-day, it was impossible for men to get promotion. It was all very well for the Minister to give expression to pious opinions, but he knew that he could not do anything. He would drop the first part of the motion, and hoped that the Minister would carry into effect those pious opinions to which he had given expression.

The amended motion read: That in the opinion of this House greater opportunities for promotion should be offered to subordinate officers of the Prisons Department.

said that prisons which contained more than 100 prisoners were rated as second class, but at the Point, Durban, and the main gaol, Durban, there were 400 or 500 prisoners, and were classed as second and third-class prisons, and the head guard could not get the promotion he desired. There were only two first-class warders in the Union—one at Johannesburg and the other at Pretoria. There were other prisons just as big in other parts of the Union which were in the lower grade. He hoped the Minister would give this matter his consideration. The warders of the Durban Central Gaol worked 12 to 14 hours at a stretch without additional pay. They wished to know why they could not continue to do the work, as they had done it in the past, on an eight hours’ shift.

What has that to do with the question before the House ?

concluding, said he would deal with the question at greater length on the Estimates.

said there were 137 supernumerary warders scattered over different parts of the Union. The Prisons Department was in the habit of keeping these men as permanent employees, and they were doing precisely the same work as the subordinate members of the prison staff, but receiving only two-thirds of their pay. Thus there was a danger of all the warders being brought down to 4s. and 4s. 6d. a day and free uniform. He hoped the Minister would inquire into the matter, and raise the men to the status of warders after twelve months’ service.

The motion as amended was adopted.

moved: That this House is no longer sufficiently representative of the opinion of the constituencies to justify it in considering and passing important legislation, particularly in relation to industrial matters. Mr. Creswell said he had been asked that afternoon by an hon. member whether his motion was not in the nature of a jest. The questioner seemed to infer that the motion asked each individual member of the House to pass a vote of no confidence in himself. That, however, was not his (Mr. Creswell’s) intention, but to ask them to vote on the question whether the House as a whole did sufficiently reflect the political sentiments of the people to justify it in proceeding with legislation, particularly of an industrial character. A year ago this very day it fell to his lot to propose a vote of no confidence in the Government, which, if it had been carried, would have had precisely the same effect as the motion now before the House. If his motion were adopted it was inconceivable that the Ministry would not advise the Governor-General to dissolve Parliament. A year ago the Ministerial answer to his motion was supplied by the Minister of Railways, who treated the whole thing as a stupendous joke and a waste of valuable time, and he also said it was a stupendous piece of impudence and that he (Mr. Creswell) was suffering from megalomania, commonly known as swelled head. He (Mr. Creswell) did not know whether the opinion of the House had ripened during the past year, but he had a feeling that there were members of the Ministry who had so greatly mistaken their importance this last year that the latter charge might be more fittingly applied to them. Last year he based his appeal to the House on several grounds. He pointed out that the efficiency of Parliament depended on a Government and an Opposition divided by clear cut differences of principle. He pointed out that the schism in the Government Party had brought Parliamentary business practically to a standstill and that Government could not make up its mind what legislation to proceed with. Matters had not improved since then. It was common knowledge to what a degree of paralysis Government had been reduced by this schism in its own ranks. Not one proposal had Government been able to proceed with of those which it had said were so urgent. The second point on which he based his appeal—that the Opposition ceased to oppose—was more true to-day than ever before. (Hear, hear.) They had still legislation introduced by Government, as was the case yesterday, finding its chief supporter on the front Opposition bench. If the motion of last year was a piece of stupendous impudence it would have been a very good thing for the country if the House had endorsed it —(hear, hear)—for the events of the past year had proved the case of the hon. members on the cross-benches up to the hilt. Another of the strong grounds on, which he had urged the motion was that in dealing with industrial questions the Opposition failed to fulfils its functions, and was always in agreement with the Government, and in taking that course they were not doing what the country expected of such an Opposition.

He knew it would be said that, in the course of his remarks, he was directing his remarks much more against the official Opposition than against the Government. (Hear, hear.) It was perfectly true, and he did not for a moment deny it. To the Government they were in permanent opposition. It was largely because the Opposition in this House was not a real Opposition that a great deal of the events from which this country had suffered had occurred. The events of last year had amply proved their case. Parliament had hardly risen before those July events of which they had heard so much took place. In all these discussions he did not think sufficient prominence had been given to this fact, that all that trouble, the temper which expressed itself in that way, was largely built up by the fact that men had watched proposal after proposal being brought forward in their interests in this House and being turned down by the united efforts of the Government and the Opposition. It was seen that there was hardly anything to hope for from the deliberations of Parliament, which made men in such large numbers say that the best way they could go about getting their demands remedied was to abstain from work and let the inconvenience fall, if it had to fall, but, at all events, they would draw striking attention to what their wants were. The Prime Minister and his colleagues had to admit that during that last conference in the last week of July. On many points they had to admit that hon. members on the cross-benches had correctly stated what were the wishes and desires of the men, and he ventured to say that, by inference, a large number of the Opposition members in this House who represented industrial constituencies had misled the House when they voted against these proposals. (Hear, hear.) How often had it been said from those benches that they had brought forward something that hon. members on those benches said did not represent the real demands and the real desires of the working-class. The events of July and the Government’s own concession during that July conference showed that, if their advice in this House had been taken, if Parliament had acted in better conscience toward the demands of the wage workers of the Witwatersrand, those July troubles would not, in all probability, have occurred, and if they had occurred, would not have been accompanied by the same temper that characterised them. The Prime Minister knew perfectly well that, as far as hon. members on the cross-benches were concerned, they desired as much as he did, with regard to the problems which they had to deal with, industrial and otherwise, to see progress made rather through the medium of this Parliament, rather through deliberation, than accompanied by a great many disturbing events which frequently entailed a great deal of suffering and unnecessary suffering on those who took part.

Even after the July events, if the Government had recognised that, after all, constitutionally they were bound to take cognisance of what was represented to them across the floor of this House by members representing industrial constituencies, if the Prime Minister had taken notice of the fact that the advice tendered to him by a number of members who represented industrial constituencies had been wholly misleading, if recognising the importance of the issues which had been raised, and recognising the rift in his own side and devoting attention particularly to the matters concerning those who were opposed to the Government, if he had recognised how false the advice was that was given to him by many of the representatives of industrial constituencies, he (Mr. Creswell) ventured to assert, without fear of contradiction, that the episodes of January would not have taken place. (Hear, hear.) It must be notorious to everyone in the country that when, nearly four years ago, this House was elected, the issues before the country were false issues, which had since disappeared. He was convinced that, if this House had renewed its touch with the country by a general election subsequent to July, the events of January would never have taken place. He could not conceive of any episode in the history of any country which so showed the evils of not having an Opposition based upon real conflict of principles than the events which took place last January. (Hear, hear.) He was sure that the Prime Minister, if he were in a position of less responsibility and more freedom, would be the first to admit that no Government would ever dream of taking those drastic steps of proclaiming Martial Law to put down mere industrial action, or resorting to the step of deportation, if they had not felt that they had on the Opposition side of the House a party that would not really oppose them, and bring them to account, as an Opposition party should. Only recently, from a precis issued of the proceedings of a conference held by the Opposition party at Johannesburg, they had been told that not too hasty a judgment should be passed upon them, because it was agreed that the Indemnity Bill should be regarded as a non-party question. That question showed the evil of going on with Parliament as Parliament was today constituted. It was destroying something which he was sure the Prime Minister valued, much as they might accuse him of “Oriental despotism,” or rather they should say his colleague.

Everyone would agree that the essential of Parliament was that, if they had got to have parties, parties should be divided upon lines which were intelligible to the country. If further proof were wanted, they all of them who had taken part in Parliamentary life, who for a long time may have taken a great interest in the doings of Parliament, although they may not have been members, knew the frequency with which the Ministry of the day were assailed and told that they ought to dissolve Parliament, because there had been a by-election here and a by-election there. He wanted to point out that in this country they had an opportunity which no other country afforded of being able to gauge how public feeling was changing in the constituencies. There was no other dominion in the Empire, and he believed no other foreign country, where anything so closely reflecting the constituencies which this Parliament represented existed as existed in regard to the Provincial Councils and their relations with this Parliament. Only a month or two ago the Provincial Council elections were held. What was the position? In Natal was there any enthusiastic support for the Government ? In the Transvaal the majority, a narrow majority he agreed, supported the action of the hon. members on the cross-benches; and if they took those who, he believed, belonged to the disaffected portion of the Government’s party, if they simply took the Unionist members and the members who belonged to the section of the Government that supported the Prime Minister through thick and thin, even then the Government was in a minority.

In the Free State, he was told, those who represented the Prime Minister’s views were in a small minority. How it was in the Cape he left other members to say. Events had shown perfectly clearly that it was time if that House was to do any useful work to renew its life by an appeal to the country and get into closer touch with the people by means of a general election. Would any hon. member deny that the House to-day was dead?

Why?

Because everyone feels that we are only playing at Parliament and that everything that is done today is done to a large extent without the sanction of the constituents. Continuing, he said that that was not a right thing to do, and it was not in the interest of South Africa that they should continue on those lines. In the course of his remarks he had had to address some remarks to the members of the Opposition. He was given to understand that if the Minister made an appeal to the constituents they would not have as many supporters as they had to-day, and he was certain if an appeal were made to the country to-day the Opposition would be told in very clear terms what the country thought of their doings during the Indemnity debates. The hon. member for Umbilo was evidently treating the matter as a jest, but let them say: “Yes, we will appeal to Caesar.” If they did not do it now they would have to do it next year. It was only a matter of another session when the Act of Union would compel them to go to the country. After all they had not yet gauged the possibility of Government, and perhaps then they would have someone else coming in—perhaps “my old friend Bain.” (Laughter.) He hoped the Unionist Party were not going to take the line they took last year—allowing the debate to proceed for eleven long hours before they could bring themselves to say which way they were going to vote. The hon. member for Fort Beaufort had not the reputation in that House for lack of words, and he was generally allowed to speak more or less what he thought best, but on that occasion he had had to read an apology for voting against the Government. (Laughter.) Surely the hon. member did not deny that he had voted against the Government. He must remember that he had once voted against it. He (Mr. Creswell) was afraid that in some of his remarks he might have laid himself open to the charge that he was not treating the matter in the serious way they should treat it. But they did treat it very seriously, and they believed that in bringing forward those matters they were discharging a duty. They (the Labour members) did discharge their duties. What the hon. members on the other side of the House and the Opposition did—well, they were not their judges, but they had their duty to their constituents, to whom they would have to go sooner or later, and they (the Labour members) were prepared to abide by that decision. What had been found in the past to be the most efficient safety-valve to prevent feelings breaking out was that when there was unmistakable evidence that Parliament no longer represented the views of the country there should be an appeal to the country.

seconded the motion.

said the hon. member for Jeppe had proposed a resolution last year which would have the same effect as the one he proposed to-day. That seemed to be his hardy annual, and he supposed he would continue it. If the hon. member enjoyed it, by all means let him continue to enjoy it. What they felt and objected to was the way in which the hon. member reflected on the integrity of the Government. Supposing the resolution was carried and they did away with the present Government, what were they going to do? Could the hon. member’s little commando of seven form another Government? (Ministerial laughter.) Supposing they could, what would happen? The hon. member for Jeppe would be the Prime Minister, and he supposed his department would have to be the Department of Mines. The mines would be closed down and there would be an end of his department. (Laughter.) He supposed the hon. member for George Town would be the Minister of Lands, but he was going to distribute the lands, and there would be an end of his department. (Laughter.) Then they came to the hon. member for Greyville. He would be the Commissioner of Strikes. (Laughter.) The country would have to put down strikes, and so that would be an end of his department. (Laughter.) The hon. member for Springs would be Commissioner of Disturbances. There had been a lot of talk about the latest successes during the last elections for the Provincial Council, but what had been the case? Other people had not been allowed to hold meetings, and if they did hold meetings, people went to the meetings with knobkerries.

What about Heidelberg?

Do you know what a knobkerrie is? A knobkerrie, he said, was a miserable small stick with a swollen head —(laughter)—it was the same sort of head the leader of the Labour Party would have after a few imaginary successes. No doubt the hon. member for Liesbeek would be the Commissioner of Railways, but before long there would be a strike on the railways, and there would be an end of his department. The hon. member for Roodepoort would be the Treasurer-General, but the first step, he supposed, he would take would be to do away with the Auditor-General. (Laughter.) A lot of fuss was being made about what the Government had done in connection with the deportations. Deportation was no new thing in this country. There were men sitting in that House who had been deported without trial, and who had done nothing; and after that there had not been a member of that House who had got up and popped down many times about the business. The men who had been deported had cost the country hundreds of thousands of pounds. What could they not have done with the money if they had it to-day ? It would have built railways, etc., and they would have been able to give more people work, but those gentlemen had taken the bread out of the people’s mouths. The Government had spent £500,000 in putting down the disturbances. Continuing, he said that on the Wednesday evening following the arrival of Mr. Tom Mann he walked behind two coloured boys of the ages of fourteen and eight. One said to the other, “You know they only work five days a week in England,” and the other said “Yes, and only five hours a day.” The first one then said, “Yes, that is what Tom Mann told us last night.” Continuing, he said that men like hon. members on the cross-benches were poisoning the minds of these people. Formerly he had been one of the strongest supporters for the establishment of industries in this country, but the experience of the last year had opened his eyes. He had come to the conclusion that the actions of hon. members on the cross-benches had been a set-back to the encouragement of industries, and he hoped that the House would take no notice of them at all.

said they needed no stronger evidence in favour of the motion than the speech of the hon. member who had just resumed his seat. He had never listened to a more statesmanlike speech—(laughter)—though he was not sure that the Government would thank the hon. member for expounding its policy. (Laughter.) The hon. member had opened with a lot of balderdash. What hon. members on the cross-benches wanted to do was to end the political career of hon. members like the hon. member for Somerset East. This was a different motion to the one moved last year. What they said in this motion was that the members in the House did not represent the people of the country. The hon. member for Jeppe had rightly said that the actions of the Government and the actions of members in that House showed that they were out of touch with the wishes of the people.

Wait.

While we are waiting we are called upon to pass legislation such as the Riotous Assemblies Bill and the iniquitous Trade Unions Bill. Continuing, he said that they wanted a dissolution so as to give the people of the country an opportunity of expressing their opinion on these measures. If hon. members maintained that they represented the wishes of the people, could they explain the happenings in the Transvaal and the votes of no confidence that had been passed. The Labour Party in the Transvaal had as many votes to spare as the Unionist Party got altogether. Proceeding, Mr. Boydell said that in the first year of the Union there had been a by-election in George Town, where Mr. Andrews had been returned, who had defeated the Unionist and Nationalist candidates by polling more votes than both of them put together. That had been followed up by another by election in another town, and then they got to Natal, where he (Mr. Boydell) was returned. The first opportunity that the electors of the Cape Province had had of recording their protest against the Unionist Party had been at the Liesbeek by-election, where the Labour candidate (Mr. Maginess) had got 50C votes more than the other two candidates put together, one of whom was the official Unionist candidate. As far as the industrial centres were concerned, the Unionist members did not truly and adequately represent the views of the people who had sent them to the House. The hon. member pointed out that within the last two months, out of 44 candidates which the South African Labour Party had run for Municipal and Provincial Council elections, they had got 54 in, which was pretty well 80 per cent. That must have a meaning, and it meant that the electorate had no confidence in members sitting on that side of the House. If hon. members voted in the way they felt they ought to vote— apart from a natural pertinacity of sticking to their seats—he thought they would vote for the motion, and he asked all those who felt like that to support members on the cross-benches, and he thought there must be a good number of them.

said he would vote against the motion with a free and open mind, especially in view of the fact that his constituency by its vote had recently shown its confidence in the South African Party.

moved, as an amendment, to delete all words after “that,” for the purpose of inserting the following words, “a respectful address be presented to H.E. the Governor-General, intimating to him that, in the opinion of this House, it is desirable that the present House of Assembly be forthwith dissolved.”

He had moved the amendment for two reasons, and he had two objections to the original motion. The motion said that the House no longer had the confidence of the constituencies. Speaking for himself and some others he could say that they fully enjoyed the confidence of their constituents. Therefore he could not agree with the motion as it stood. The motion laid emphasis on the industrial questions. Hon. members on the cross benches seemed to think that they represented the whole of the people of the country; in fact they seemed to think that the section which they stood for was the whole people. By their misguided zeal members on the cross benches had not achieved anything at all and had, in fact, created nothing but misery. He (the speaker) claimed that the lot of the labouring classes was dear to him, as he had always proved. He gave as an instance the attempts he had made to improve the lot of the labourers on the railways.

The hon. member went on to give the reasons for his amendment. The Government, he said, was for its existence dependent on a majority in Parliament. It was the duty of the Government to see that that majority was one which was of a representative nature. He had long felt that the Government was kept in office by a majority which was not representative whereas they should take care that they had a majority of the public with them. Their majority was a false one. Furthermore the Government was not strong enough in its convictions—as had been proved on more than one occasion. It had proved itself to be weak and irresolute. Parliament was, in fact, dead, and the country knew it. The history of this House of the past few years had proved the Government’s lack of conviction, lack of strength. Bills were introduced and withdrawn, simply because the Government was afraid of opposition. The result was that the interests of the country were neglected. Although the House had been in session for three months, the only legislation which had been passed was that relating to Johannesburg and legislation in the interest of the whole country had not been touched. The question of land settlement was not touched, and owing to some weakness in the Act the provisions of the Act were not carried out. The same thing applied to irrigation. The House which had started so well had altogether changed in its nature and aspect, whilst 600 people had been settled on the land, how many others had been impoverished ? The wheels of the wagon of State had become worn out and required replacing, and that could only be done by a dissolution of Parliament. The House itself should be satisfied that it was not fulfilling the purpose for which it had been created. Important questions, such as those relating to bewaarplaatsen, Asiatics, higher education, and natives, had not been touched at all. It was true that the Native Land Bill was introduced last year. Two years ago the question could more easily have been settled than now. Putting it off from year to year did not help them at all. What had been done for the poor whites? he asked. The number of poor whites was increasing every day, but nothing was being done. Nothing was done for them, either in the Land Bank Act or in the Land Settlement Act: Decisive action should be taken in regard to the industrial position, but what did they find instead? Too much regard was being paid to the interests of those who came from other countries. A vascillating policy was being followed by the Government. One day threats were used but the next day everything was again forgotten. If they looked at the public service they continually heard of discontent. Why could this matter not be taken up and dealt with in a sympathetic manner? The fact was that the Government was not in sympathy with the people, and therefore they should go to the poll, so that a Government which was in sympathy with the people was placed at the head of affairs. The first two years of this Parliament had shown what could be done. If the Parliament had lost contact with the public, it ought to be dissolved, and hon. members who had received votes of no confidence ought to afford their constituents an opportunity to express their opinions once more. Then that would give satisfaction.

said he welcomed the motion, and he particularly welcomed the amendment, which latter he seconded. He hoped the motion would prevent discussion on the general policy of the Government in connection with the Budget, because the House had important financial questions to consider, and he trusted the Budget debate would be confined as far as possible to those important matters. The motion, however, had a considerable element of danger. He did not think it would be right to say that because a certain number of elections had gone one way or the other, and new questions had come forward, that the House did not represent the people. That would be laying down a dangerous precedent. They had had votes of want of confidence in the Government before. When Parliament came together first hon. members were entertained with almost weekly motions of want of confidence.

Why did you not support them ?

I did not support them because they were wrong. I was sent here to support the United South African Party, and I am trying to do that at the present time. (Laughter.) At that time I was supporting a Government which was representing the United South African Party, but now represents only a section of it. If it had been the other way, if it had been another section which had triumphed for a moment and gained the machinery of the party and refused to cooperate with the other section, I should be with the minority, as I always have been when the minority is oppressed. Continuing Mr. Fremantle said how strange was the contrast between the animated scenes they used to have when these motions of want of confidence were before the House and the scene on the present occasion. (Opposition cheers.) Where were the Prime Minister and “his fidus Achates ” ? They had a front bench fittingly represented by the Minister of Education. It seemed that this Parliament had already, by its behaviour towards the motion, shown that there was an air of unreality about its proceedings, and in the interests of the House and the country it was time that the farce should be put an end to. (Cheers.) He could well understand that the Prime Minister and the leading Ministers were not in their places at the present time, because the Prime Minister had made a remarkable announcement. He would be sorry to misrepresent the Prime Minister’s utterances, but as far as he had read them the Prime Minister said at the recent Congress of the South African Party: “Don’t expect I shall pay any attention to votes of Congress or Parliament so long as I have the majority of the people behind me, I shall consider it my duty to remain where I am.”

As far as he understood, that was the statement of the Prime Minister. As far as he understood, that was the position that the Prime Minister had occupied for a considerable time. He appeared to consider that he had been appointed for a period of five years, and there was a general view of that kind in the country, and that during those five years he was master of the situation, and able to do exactly what he pleased. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Fremantle) ventured to say that he was entirely mistaken, and that he had not been appointed for a term of years. He went on for his natural term of life, unless there were some accident which put an end to his term of office. His term of office might be longer or shorter than five years. This Parliament, as representing the people, ought not to allow the whip to pass out of its hands. It ought not to agree to this new theory of constitutional Government that they were to have a sort of dictator, imposed heaven knew where from, who was to act as an autocratic ruler of the people during a period of years. This House ought to insist upon a more definite, a more direct control of public affairs than it was apparently in a position to do at the present time. An hon. member, he might mention, had just given him certain information in regard to the Minister of Finance, and he wished to express his regret that he had referred to the Minister’s absence that afternoon. Proceeding, Mr. Fremantle said that another constitutional question which seemed to be of the greatest importance and which, he thought, ought to be decided and could only be decided by a general election, was the doctrine which bad been put forward by the Prime Minister that the great principle of party Government was that the majority of the party must rule. Now that seemed to him to be a most dangerous doctrine and a doctrine which had not only led the party represented on that side of the House to a position approaching a dissolution, but which was also entirely contrary to the government of the country by Parliament. The majority of Parliament, of course, must rule, but once they said that the majority of the party in office must rule, he would like to know where they were going to get to. He thought the majority of the party on that side of the House was the minority of Parliament. They must arrive at some policy which was agreeable to the party as a whole. His hon. friend opposite (Mr. Jagger) was, he believed, one of those who stood out in former days against a party pledge.

They were entirely opposed to anything like a pledge, and those Cape Ministers who sat in the House were equally pledged with the rest of them to resist that policy. If a majority of a majority was to rule, how were they going to arrive at what was the majority of a majority. If they extended it further they got a majority of a majority of a majority, and finally they might have rule by a majority of two against one. He was very much afraid that there was too much of that at the present time. Instead of the Government putting proposals before the House which commanded the assent of the whole of the party, they were trying now to form little cliques by means of a little intrigue—he did not wish to say anything discourteous—but by arrangement there was strung together a majority which did not command the whole-hearted assent of the majority of the House.

Why do you not give us the particulars?

Why, is it not sufficient to deal with the general question laid down by the Prime Minister? Continuing, he asked whether the hon. gentleman was really satisfied that those broad principles should be laid down by the Prime Minister contrary to everything they had always said. If not, they had seen the most surprising and sudden alteration of opinion on the part of hon. members who sat on those benches. Had they not seen the Bill dealing with the railway strike and the entire and radical change which was made a couple of days afterwards, and which was greeted with loud applause? Had they not seen the most diverse policies put forward by the hon. members on those benches? Was it not desirable that they should put the issue before the people and give them what was their right? The power should be in the hands of the people and not in the hands of a caucus or anything of that kind. He did think there were circumstances which made it imperative that an end should be put to the life of the present House as soon as possible. It was of the utmost importance not only from the point of view of those who agreed with constitutional propriety, but of those who looked for the foundations of ordered government in this country—it was of the utmost importance they should not go behind the general principle of government by the people. If it could be shown that the Government had adopted a policy, and was committed to a policy which had been repudiated by the people, it was time the people should have an opportunity of pronouncing on that change made by the Government.

There was little or no difference between the theoretical programme of the two main parties. There was a radical difference so far as the programmes of hon. members on the cross-benches were concerned, because they represented a Socialistic policy. There was a much more important thing than that. The vast majority of the electors sent hon. members on his side of the House to Parliament, committed to the policy of keeping the old South African Party together. He believed that was the fundamental difference between the parties at the last election. He did say that there was a strong sentiment of union so far as the South African Party was concerned, which animated the electors who sent them to the House, and which was responsible for the majority in the House. What had happened? In defiance of the mandate of the people, in direct opposition to the policy of the constituencies, the Prime Minister had gone over to the side of the Opposition in regard to this matter, had said that the charges against the hon. and gallant member for Smithfield were justifiable charges, and instead of union they had disunion. The Government was now representing a different policy altogether, and there had been a deliberate usurpation of the power of the people. His attitude had always been to fight against the false charges made against certain members of the party. There were rumours now that the hon. member for Smithfield was united with the Labour Party. At the elections the Prime Minister displayed the utmost friendliness with the Labour Party. Now they had an entire change. They had the Prime Minister—who had come into that House representing a feeling of friendliness to the industrial population, as a whole, and the Labour Party, which were as Socialistic then as they were at the present day—in a position of hostility to the whole industrial population of the country. (Dissent.) It seemed that there was a change of front on the part of the Prime Minister and the Government. The least that was proper was that the electors should have a fair opportunity of registering the opinion whether they agreed with the policy of the Government at the present day, having agreed with the opposite policy four years ago. As far as he was able to gauge the position, many on both sides of the House would not be returned, although some members would be. With regard to the effect of the amendment, if carried, there seemed to be a great deal of misunderstanding. He had heard it suggested that the effect of a dissolution would be a Labour Government. He did not wish to express his opinion, but everyone who had watched public affairs would say that, whatever else the result of a general election would be, it would not be the coming into power of the Labour Party at the present time. What he did say it would be was that it would be putting an end to the present reign of the Prime Minister and of the position that the Prime Minister was able to rule the country by means of a clique of his party. He believed it to be the desire of the different sections of the S.A. Party to re-unite as they were united in 1910, and this would probably be the effect of an election. That debate had seemed to him worthy of the subject or of the occasion. Let them not forget that although the hon. members on the cross-benches, for instance, were few in number, they represented a very considerable section of the population, whether hon. members agreed with them or not. (Labour cheers.) Let them not forget there were sections in the country notoriously under-represented in that House. They must not forget that after all the sovereign power was outside, and to those outside they should pay due deference. The reasons that had been adduced were amply sufficient to show that it was in the interests of the country that the end should come, and the sooner the better. The proposal of the hon. member for Fauresmith was a very drastic proposal. There were few precedents for a course of that kind, but it did seem that the Government had entered upon a system of usurpation of the powers of the people of the country and of the wishes of the people at a time when there should be no schism between the people and Parliament. There should be no doubts whatever in the hearts of the people about the fundamental principles, and the people were the sovereign power, so that his hon. friend had taken a course which was justified by the circumstances and was paying a compliment not only to those who sent him there, but to the Constitution under which he sat. He hoped the House would pay serious attention to that matter, and that before the debate came to a close it would decide that that Parliament should be rejuvenated by being brought once more into line with the wishes of the people.

who was practically inaudible in the Press gallery, was understood to say that it was impossible to make any progress with anything, simply because the Government had lost the support and confidence of the people. This lack of confidence on the part of the people was growing every day, and the inevitable outcome was that the Government was practically paralysed. The Government had a majority, but that majority would only support the Government so long as the measures introduced had the absolute approval of hon. members. Contentious legislation could, therefore, never be introduced. He supported the amendment. He felt that the only cure for the present state of affairs was a general election.

moved the adjournment of the debate, holding that many hon. members wished to make some remarks on the subject under consideration.

said he protested against the adjournment of the debate. He thought they might vote on the question, and he saw no need for the House to adjourn at the present time. The adjournment of the House was practically tantamount to an adjournment of the debate. He hoped the House would sit on until the motion was voted upon.

The motion for the adjournment was carried.

called for a division, which was taken.

As fewer than ten members (viz., Messrs. Andrews, Boydell, Creswell, Haggar, Madeley, Maginess, Meyler and H. W. Sampson) voted against the motion,

declared the motion agreed to.

To what date is the debate adjourned?

Are the Government prepared to grant us any facilities?

Certainly not.

moved that the debate be adjourned till to-morrow (Wednesday) This was agreed to.