from residents of the Transvaal, praying for the removal of the “colour bar” from the Transvaal Mines, Works and Machinery Regulations.

from G. Savage, formerly in Cape Civil Service, for relief.

from C. J. J. Steyl, formerly foreman, Government wine farm, Groot Constantia, for gratuity.

for extension of railway line from Prieska towards Kakamas.

from M. Mullins, formerly drill instructor, Prince Alfred’s Own Cape Field Artillery, for a pension.

from J. J. Joubert and 58 others, for remission of the repatriation debts.

from T. Wood, formerly in Government Railway service, for relief.

from J. Nicholson, formerly in service of Cape Government Railways, for a pension.

from H. A. Davidson, who, while serving as a constable, received injuries on account of which he was discharged as physically unfit, for relief.

moved that the order for the House to resume in Committee for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Bill on April 29 be discharged and set down for May 6.

The motion was agreed to.

brought up the second and third reports of the Select Committee on Public Accounts.

The, reports were set down for consideration on May 4.

brought up the report of the Select Committee on. Official Telegram Disclosure.

The report was set down for consideration on May 4.

said he desired to move that the report and evidence be printed.

The report will appear on the Votes and Proceedings.

said he would like to ask whether he was not in order in moving that the report and evidence be printed ?

The committee has brought up no evidence.

We certainly intend to present the evidence, Mr. Speaker.

The hon. the Chairman can bring up the evidence and then we can deal with it. There is no evidence attached to this report.

rising a little later, moved that the evidence he printed and be considered together with the report.

The motion was agreed to.

Report of the Union Department of Education for 1913.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether he is aware that the crayfish canning industry at Woodstock, which is at present employing nearly a thousand people, is being carried on at a loss, largely due to the high cartage rates charged by the Administration; and (2) will he, in the interests of a large section of the community, consider the desirability of fostering this industry by assisting the firms concerned to erect a landing stage, whence the fish can be landed direct to the factories, or alternatively by readjusting the exceedingly high cartage charges?

(1) I am not aware that the facts are as alleged by the hon. member. So far as my information goes, there are three crayfish canning factories at Woodstock, employing in all 473 persons. (male and female), of whom 5 per cent. are Europeans and 95 per cent, coloured. In addition there are the crews of the 15 boats engaged in supplying the factories with crayfish; these total about 30 men. During the crayfish season, which lasts for 9 months, the Administration sets aside 18 high-sided lorries exclusively for the cartage of this traffic, and although these lorries are not employed to anything like their full capacity, the nature of the traffic and the uncertainty (owing to climatic conditions) in regard to the time of landing, necessitate their being placed entirely at the disposal of this industry. The cartage charge from the Docks to the factories at Woodstock (2f miles from the Dock gates) is 5s. per lorry per hour during ordinary working hours. Each lorry has four animals and carries on an average 2 tons. The time occupied in the delivery of a load is two hours, so that the delivery charges work out at about 3s. 71/2d. per ton. The ordinary harbour tariff, for the same distance, is 5s. 6d. per ton, thus the reduction in favour of the crayfish industry is 1s 101/2d. per ton. The total revenue earned from this traffic by the 18 lorries during the last crayfish season (March to November) was £382, or, excluding Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays, an average of 2s. 3d. per lorry per day. The companies engaged in the crayfish industry are afforded the use of the slipway at the Southeast Quay, free of charge. (2) In order to meet the requirements of the fishing industry the Government has authorised the construction of a harbour for the exclusive use of fishing boats at an estimated cost of £14,500, and, apart from any engineering difficulties, the Administration would not be justified in erecting a landing stage at Woodstock, especially as all that can reasonably be expected of it is already being done by the Administration to foster this industry.

asked the Minister of Defence: (1) Whether he is aware that in the Waterberg district, in extent 15,600 square miles, the police force has been reduced to 36 men, from which those required for office work in Nylstroom, Potgieter’s Rust and Warm-baths have to be deducted; (2) whether he is aware that the Waterberg-Limpopo border is 250 miles in extent; (3) whether it is within his knowledge that of late stock thefts have been on the increase, and that on account of the insufficiency of police none of the culprits have been taken; and (4) whether he will increase the police force in that district, so as to allow for a few men for border duty?

(1) Yes; unfortunately shortage of numbers, owing to normal wastage and to extraordinary demands which have recently been made on the force have been the cause of the reduction as stated, but as recruiting for the force is now markedly improving it is hoped to supplement at an early stage the numbers available for police duties in the district referred to. (2) The border is approximately of that extent. (3) The increase of reported cases of stock theft is not marked, nor is the number of arrests made below the average. (4) As already stated, it is hoped at an early date to increase the police force in the Waterberg district.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs whether he is prepared, in view of the general applications of the inhabitants concerned, to make provision on the Estimates for the erection of a Post Office at Erasmus, and to transfer the Post Office at Bronkhorstspruit Station to Erasmus?

An offer to erect suitable premises for postal and telegraph purposes at Erasmus has been accepted, and, when the new premises are ready for occupation, a departmental officer will be appointed at Erasmus, where a full office will be opened. Postal and telegraph facilities, will, in addition, continue to be available at Bronkhorstspruit Station.

asked the Minister of Justice whether he is in a position to comply with’ the general requests by way of petition from the inhabitants in the neighbourhood of Tijgerpoort, district of Pretoria, praying for the appointment of a resident justice of the peace, and to make such appointment in the said neighbourhood, or, if it is impossible to do so, whether he is prepared to make provision for a resident justice of the peace to hold a periodical Court at Tijgerpoort regularly, and thus prevent the said inhabitants of Tijgerpoort having to go long distances either to Kaalfontein or to Pretoria in order to have their cases heard?

The great extent of the Union makes it impossible to have either a magistrate’s court or that of a Special Justice of the Peace within easy reach of every inhabitant. The aim of the Department is, as far as finances permit, to meet the cases of inhabitants living furthest away from central points. The inhabitants of Tijgerpoort and the surrounding country have, within a radius of 25 miles, courts at Pretoria, Kaalfontein, and Nayton, and as there are much more pressing claims which still await the appointment of a Special Justice of the Peace, I regret that for the present I am not in a position to comply with the claim in question.

asked the Minister of Justice whether his attention has been called to an article in the “Cape Argus” of 30th March, 1914, headed “An Act of Vengeance,” in which Lady Phillips is alleged to have said “that the man who shot her husband was a neurotic wretch,” and, if so, in view of the fact that such person is now under trial, whether he intends to institute proceedings against that newspaper for contempt of court ?

My attention has been drawn to the article in question. I have no intention of acting as suggested, as the instituting of proceedings for contempt of court does not fall within my power.

asked the Minister of Mines and Industries whether the Government intends to introduce legislation this session to give effect to the recommendations of the Small Holdings Commission ?

replied in the negative.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Is it a fact that the Natal Harbour Engineer has reported to the Chief Engineer that the borings for the site of the graving dock at Port Natal have been completed; that the borings show that the dock will be on sand, which is a good bottom for a graving dock; that no reply has yet been received from the Chief Engineer; and that work has been stopped awaiting further instructions; and, if so, (2) what is the cause of delay in proceeding with this very necessary and urgent work, and when will operations be resumed?

(1) The borings for the proposed new graving dock have been completed, and show sand at the required level. Since receipt of the report of the local Harbour Engineer, the original proposals have been somewhat amplified, and revised drawings have had to be prepared. A work of this magnitude requires careful consideration in every feature before it can be proceeded with, and there has been no stoppage of work or delay in formulating final proposals. (2) As intimated to me in the House on the 17th ult., in reply to questions by the hon. members for Durban, Umbilo, and Durban, Point, the drawings for the new dock are practically complete, but the work has not yet been sanctioned or the requisite funds voted by Parliament. As soon as the drawings are complete and definite proposals are submitted by the Administration’s technical and harbour advisers, the whole question will be considered by the Railway Board.

asked the Minister of Mines and Industries: (1) Whether he is aware: (a) that there are no compounds at the Robert Victor, Elandsput, and Blauwbosch Mines, (b) that the surrounding farmers have repeatedly made representations to him about this matter, (c) that the police force is absolutely inadequate, and (d) that the farmers suffer much loss through cattle thefts committed by the natives employed by those mines; and (2) whether he intends: (a) to order the said mines to provide themselves with compounds, and (b) to increase the police force ?

(1) (a) The Government is aware that the natives at Elandsput and Blauwbosch Mines are only partially compounded, but as regards the Robert Victor Mine, the closed compound system has been in operation for some years, (b) The answer is in the negative, but representations on the subject have from time to time been made to local officers. (c) The police force at present employed is admittedly below strength. (d) No losses of cattle through theft by mine employees have been reported to either the magistrate or the District Commandant of the Police. Two cases of loss were reported, but in the one case it was found that the loss was due to stock straying, while in the other there were no grounds for believing that any of the stock which had not been counted by the owners was missing through theft. (2) (a) The question is under consideration. (b) An increase in the police force has already been authorised, but the full complement is not yet available.

asked the Minister of Defence: Whether he has received any petition from residents of Worcester reflecting on the conduct of the members of the Defence Force whilst in camp there, and in consequence thereof asking for the removal of the Defence Camp from Worcester?

No such petition has been received, nor has any complaint been made by the residents of Worcester or anyone else as to the conduct of members of the Defence Force who have been encamped at Worcester while undergoing their annual course of continuous training.

asked the Minister of Justice: Whether it has been represented to him that the town and district of Robertson are under-policed and that additional police are required, and what provision he is making to supply the additional police required there?

Representations have been made to the Commissioner of Police of the nature indicated by the hon. member The present police force in Robertson consists of one Head Constable and nine constables. The whole extent of the Union is at present policed by 10,488 men, and representations have been made to me from various points as to under policing. While I shall do my best, I fear that with the numerous other claims for additional police, some of a very pressing nature, it will not be possible to make any addition to the strength at Robertson in the current financial year.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs if his attention has been directed to the delay on the part of the arbitrators appointed under clause 46 of the Mail Contract agreement in coming to a decision on the question of the breach of that agreement, and if he will take steps to expedite their proceedings?

I am aware of the delay in regard to the arbitration proceedings relative to the Mail Contract, and understand the mail company’s arbitrator has been temporarily absent from England. The Government is doing everything possible to expedite a settlement of this matter

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) Whether he is aware (a) that for more than twelve months the police in the Maraisburg district, Transvaal, were unable to obtain adequate uniforms; (b) that now the uniforms are available, the prices have been without notice to the police, increased as follows, viz., trousers from 8s. to 11s., tunics from 11s. to 15s. 6d., and other articles in proportion; (c) that the boots and gaiters sold to the foot branch are of most inferior quality; and (2) what are the reasons in each case?

(1) (a) It is a fact that for more than twelve months the police in the Maraisburg district, Transvaal, were unable to obtain adequate uniforms. The Defence Department which supplies uniforms to the police, reports that the reason was the inability of manufacturers to turn out clothes owing to industrial unrest and enormous activity in the clothing trade. Supplies of clothing are now coming forward and issues are no longer delayed. (b) The increased prices are correctly stated. The Defence Department has not yet supplied the police with an official price list, and hence the police repayment rates are subject to fluctuation without notice. The increases are due to the increased cost of the garments, and the High Commissioner for the Union has notified the Department that further increases may be expected. (c) The boots supplied were of South African manufacture, and owing to complaints fresh contracts for new patterns have been entered into. The gaiters were the same as have been supplied to the police for years without complaints and no complaint has been received as to their being unsatisfactory or inferior.

asked the Prime Minister whether the petition from J. B. Voortman and other inhabitants of the village and neighbourhood of Zastron, which was referred to the Government for consideration on the 3rd June, 1913, has been considered by the Government, or what other steps have been taken by the Government; and whether the Government has arrived at a decision with regard to the request of the said petition, and, if so, whether that decision has been communicated to the petitioners, and, if not, why not?

The petition of J. B. Voortman and others, inhabitants of the village and neighbourhood of Zastron, in the Rouxville district, referred to by the hon. member, which prayed that the assistant magistracy of Zastron might be elevated to a full magistracy and separate from the Rouxville district, was duly considered by the Government and the decision arrived at was that the Government was not prepared at present to disturb the existing arrangements at Rouxville and Zastron respectively. The decison has not been conveyed to petitioners, as it was a reference from the House to the Government.

asked the Prime Minister whether it is a fact that a number of fitters, carpenters and other artisans have been engaged by the High Commissioner’s Office in London for service in South Africa, and are at present on their way from England, and, if so, (a) whether such employees have been engaged to replace strikers from the Premier Mine or South African Railways, (b) whether it is within his knowledge that numbers of such workmen in South Africa are at present unemployed?

on behalf of the Prime Minister, said: The reply to the first portion of the hon. member’s question is in the negative. That being so, the portions (a) and (b) do not appear to call for a reply.

asked the Minister of Lands whether any arrears of rent are due to the Government by occupiers of Crown lands in the Barberton district, and, if so, how much such arrears amount to?

replied: Yes, £1,147 10s. 3d. in respect of 103 leases.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether the terms laid down in the reference to political rights of employees of the Railways and Harbour Administration, contained in the Government’s reply to the Amalgamated Society of Railway and Harbour Servants, of 25th July 1913, are at present in force; and, if not, whether he will inform the House what political rights such employees have?

The answer to this question is in the affirmative.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) What sums were contributed from revenue during the financial years ending March 31, 1911, 1912, and 1913, respectively, to the following funds: (a) Depreciation, (b) Equalisation of Rates; (2) have these moneys been handed over to the Public Debt Commissioners for investment; and (3) what are the amounts now standing at the credit of these funds respectively ?

(1) (a) Contributions to Depreciation Fund.

(b) Contributions to Rates Equalisation Fund.

(2) The balances of these two funds are not specifically invested as such, but are included with all other railway balances, treated as a whole, and placed with the Public Debt Commissioners for investment on behalf of the Administration in terms of Act 18 of 1911.

(3) Renewals Fund.

Credit balance at January 31, 1914 (the latest date for which figures are available), after allowing for commitments to the extent of £2,540,118 19s. 4d.—£1,248,993 2s. 7d.

Rates Equalisation Fund.

Credit balance at January 31, 1914— £346,999 13s. 4d.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether it is a fact that artisans employed by the Premier Mine prior to the strike in January last are being refused employment upon the South African Railways on the sole ground that they took part in the strike?

replied in the negative.

asked the Minister of Native Affairs: (1) Whether the statement reported to have been made in the Natal Provincial Council on the 1st instant by the Administrator to the effect “that the Minister of Native Affairs urged the repealing of the £2 greyhound dog tax ” is a correct statement, and, if so will the Minister state the reasons for this interference in purely local affairs; and (2) is there a £5 dog tax in the Transvaal Province, and, if so, has the Minister also urged the repealing of that tax in the Transvaal, and, if not, will he state the reasons for this differential treatment in these two Provinces?

on behalf of the Minister of Native Affairs, replied: (1) Representations were made both by the late Minister of Native Affairs and his predecessor in regard to the suspension of this tax which in the almost unanimous opinion of local officers charged with the administration of natives in Natal was likely to give rise to trouble amongst the occupants of locations and reserves. As a result of these representations the collection of this tax was suspended for two years. An Ordinance repealing the sub-section of the Game Law which imposed the special tax on Kafir bunting dogs is now before the Provincial Council, and has passed its second reading. (2) There is a £5 dog tax in the Transvaal Province levied under an Act (No. 23 of 1907) passed before Union. The Government has not taken steps to urge upon the Transvaal Provincial Authorities the repeal of this law.

asked the Minister of the Interior whether, in view of the decision of this House to reinstate large numbers of railwaymen who participated in the strike during January last, he will undertake to reinstate the several men who were dismissed from the Government Printing Works for assisting other Trade Unionists during that strike ?

I am not prepared to consider the reinstatement of any of the three men who were dismissed from the Government Printing Works in January last for acts connected with the strike.

asked the Minister of Finance; (1) Whether he has received applications from several Municipalities to consider the establishment of an isolation hospital in a central position on the East Rand; and (2) in view of the urgent necessity of such a hospital, will he place a sum of money on this year’s Estimates sufficient to meet the requirements of the district concerned in this regard?

Isolation hospitals fall under the control of the Provincial Administration. I have, however, caused a copy of the hon. member’s question to be transmitted to the Administrator of the Transvaal for his information.

asked the Minister of Lands whether, seeing that the drought still continues and the winter is approaching, he is not of opinion that the grazing rights in the game reserves and on other Government land in the eastern portions of the Transvaal, recently advertised for lease, should be retained, seeing that those pastures might very possibly be required for stock in cases of urgent need?

I do not think it possible to reserve available Government land for the purposes mentioned by the hon. member. I would point out to the hon. member that the area of land available would not prove sufficient to enable all the farmers affected by the recent drought to obtain grazing, and that difficulties would inevitably arise in the apportionment of the area between applicants.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether Mr. John Forrest-Gray, after leaving the service of the Amalgamated Society of Railway and Harbour Servants, was engaged by the Government and employed on the General Manager of Railways’ staff, or in some other department of the Railway Administration, and, if so, upon what date was he engaged; and (2) is he still in the employment of the Government, and, if not, upon what date were his services dispensed with?

(1) (a) Yes; (b) 23rd July, 1913. (2) (a) No; (b) 31st March, 1914.

asked the Minister of Justice on what grounds professions such as that of chemist and druggist and veterinary surgeon are included among those of which the members are regarded as expert witnesses for the purposes of the tariff of witness fees in law courts, while analytical and metallurgical chemists are excluded; and will he take steps to include members of the last named professions?

An analytical or metallurgical chemist called to give expert evidence is treated exactly the same as a chemist, druggist or veterinary surgeon called for that purpose. The law advisers have, however, ruled that analytical and metallurgical chemists are not included under the designation chemist and druggist in the list of approved professions for treatment as professional witnesses not called to give expert evidence, and I do not propose to revise the list of approved professions at present,

asked the Minister of the Interior: (1) Whether his attention has been drawn to the fact that applications have been publicly invited for the appointment of Engineering Adviser of Public Works to the Provincial Administration of the Cape Province; (2) whether this invitation for applications was issued with his approval; (3) whether the Public Service Commissioners were consulted before the invitation was issued; (4) whether any person has been appointed to the said office provisionally or otherwise; (5) whether, if the answer to (4) is in the affirmative, such person was a civil servant; and, if not, what are the reasons why a person not a civil servant was so appointed; (6) whether such appointment was recommended by the Public Service Commissioners, and, if so, what were their reasons, if any; (7) what were the salary and terms upon which the appointment was made; (8) what were the qualifications required for the, appointment; (9) was the Minister satisfied that there was no civil servant with the required qualifications; and (10) Were the Public Service Commissioners satisfied that there was no civil servant with the required qualifications, and, if so, will the Minister lay upon the Table of the House the evidence and documents upon which the said Commissioners were so satisfied?

I have no knowledge of the matter to which the hon. member refers. The assignment of officers which was contemplated by sub-section (2) of section 141 of the South Africa Act has taken place, and the Provincial Administration is now entirely responsible for the appointment of its own officers, in direct consultation with the Public Service Commissioners, who in terms of sub-section (5) of section 2 of the Public Service and Pensions Act, stand in the same relation to the Executive Committee of a Province as they stand in relation to the Government of the Union.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether he is aware that the eight-year-old daughter of a railway employee died recently from diphtheria in railway quarters at Osplaats; (2) has the doctor condemned the house as unfit for human habitation, and is this employee, with his wife and remaining family, still living in the same house; and (3) will the Minister, in view of the extreme danger of the disease spreading, immediately place more healthy and convenient premises at the disposal of the family concerned?

(1) No; the child did not die of diphtheria. (2) Not so far as I am aware. The employee in question is at present on leave with his family. (3) In view of the answer to question (1), this question falls to the ground. Certain minor improvements have been made in the house recently, but further inquiries are being made as to its condition and general suitability.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether he is aware: (a) that certain station inspectors work seven days of twelve hours per week, making 84 hours per week in all, and (b) that though these men are supposed to have two hours per day for meals, in view of the continuous nature of their work, it is impossible, in several instances, for them to take advantage of this interval; (2) will the Minister cause inquiry to be made, and consider the propriety, where such cases exist, of reducing the number of hours per day from twelve to eight.

(1) (a) Yes; but it is only fair to add that in such cases the duties of station inspectors are not of a strenuous nature. I am, however, taking steps to inquire into the matter further, with a view to giving relief in such cases. (b) I am not aware of any instances in which station inspectors have been unable to obtain reasonable intervals for their meals. (2) The question of the introduction of an eight-hours’ day is included in the terms of reference to the Statutory Commission appointed under section 21 of the Railways and Harbours Service Act, 1912.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: Whether he is aware that the head shunter at Brakpan has resigned, consequent upon the Administration’s decision to reduce his wages from 13s. 6d. to 10s. per diem, and has the said reduction the approval of the Minister?

No; the hon. member would appear to have been misinformed.

asked the Minister of Finance: (1) Whether he is aware that at least two of the Kleinfontein strike-breakers, who received State compensation for loss of employment, are now working on the Kleinfontein Mine; and (2) in view of the fact that these strike-breakers were compensated, upon a basis of one year’s earnings, for inability to obtain other employment, what steps does the Minister purpose taking in the interest of the taxpayers of the Union to obtain a refund of all or a part of the compensation paid to these men?

I must ask the hon. member to kindly postpone this question.

asked the Minister of Finance: (1) Whether he is aware (a) that a large number of railway and harbour servants are insured in the Colonial Mutual Life Insurance Company of Australia, (b) that the said railway servants so insured are seriously alarmed by a rumour to the effect that the actual value of properties held by this company in the Union of South Africa is considerably less than the value stated in the books of the company, and (c) is the rumour correct; (2) what method, if any, is adopted by the Government to check the correctness or otherwise of the statements of assets and liabilities of this and other insurance companies; (3) will the Minister cause inquiry by a qualified auditor to be made into the operations of this company within the Union of South Africa, with particular regard to new business; and (4) are any of the members of the Union Cabinet on the board of directors of (a) the Colonial Mutual of Australia, (b) any other insurance company operating in the Union of South Africa, and, if so, who are the Ministers, and on the boards of which companies have they seats?

replied: (1) (a) I am not aware of the number of railway and harbour servants insured with this society, but I do not doubt that the society has insured the lives of a fair proportion of these employees, (b) I am not aware that such is the case. (c) I am advised that the rumour is groundless. (2) The Cape Life Assurance Act, 1891, and the Insurance Statutes passed by the other colonial legislatures prior to Union prescribe the machinery for checking the accuracy of the financial returns of the various companies carrying on business in the Union. In the case of the particular society mentioned by the hon. member, its accounts, statements of which are deposited periodically with the Government in terms of the law, are audited by an accountant of the highest standing in Cape Town. (3) I see no reason whatever for moving for such an inquiry. (4) (a) My hon. friend the Minister of Railways and Harbours is a member of the South African Board of this society. (b) No other Minister is associated with the direction of any insurance company. I would venture to call the hon. member’s attention to the dangers of giving public expression to such matters as are embodied in items (1), (2) and (3) of his question without prior inquiry as to whether the charges that are implied therein are justified. The hon. member is evidently not aware that at the instance of the society a private Act was passed during last year by the Victorian Parliament providing for a Government investigation of the society’s affairs. The report of the Government inspectors stated, inter alia, “We are satisfied that at the date of our investigation, the society was solvent and able to meet all its liabilities, both immediate and prospective,” and generally indicated that there was no ground whatever for any apprehensions as to the society’s position. Furthermore, the Victorian Government accepted liability for the cost of the investigation (some £3,000), and has taken steps to prosecute sundry persons who were the means of spreading certain damaging and unfounded reports as to the society’s position.

said that the Minister had referred to the inadvisability of his making statements of this description. Might he say that he had received information from a number of railwaymen with reference to this society, and that he did not wish to make gratuitous statements which might impugn the character of any financial undertaking at all.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours on what grounds the Administration refuses to compensate J. W. van Wijk for three horses killed by the train at or near Koodoo Siding on the 20th July, 1913?

The horses were standing on a private level-crossing unprotected by gates on the claimant’s farm when killed, and the claim was repudiated on the ground that the Administration was not liable.

asked the Minister of Justice whether the Government, during this session, intend to introduce a Bill whereby the age of consent throughout the Union will be raised to eighteen years of age, and, if not, why not?

The Government does not intend introducing a Bill raising the age of consent throughout the Union to eighteen years, but I hope it may be found possible to introduce a provision during this session raising the age of consent to sixteen years throughout the Union.

asked the Minister of Lands: (1) What lease or leases have been entered into by the Government for whaling operations at Walfish Bay, the name or names of the lessees, the period of the lease or leases, and the annual rental paid by such lessee or lessees; and (2) whether it is a fact that since the aforesaid lease or leases have been entered into, a floating whaling station has been established in Walfish Bay, and, if so, what rental or remuneration the Government receive for the privilege?

(1) Only one shore site has been leased forwhaling operations at Walfish Bay. Tenders were invited in respect of the lease of this site, the highest tender received being that of the Walfish Bay Whaling Company, Limited, offering a rental of £1,260 per annum, which was accepted. The lease is for a period of 25 years and dates from the 1st December, 1911. (2) Yes, the Railways and Harbours Department have approved of a floating whaling factory anchoring in Walfish Bay for the purpose of testing the whaling ground in the vicinity. The permission is granted on the understanding that it is subject to withdrawal at any time on six months’ notice. It is understood that no payment is made for the above-mentioned permission.

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) Whether Police constable J. S. van Niekerk was injured on 14th June last in effecting an arrest in Ferreira’s Town; (2) whether he was incapacitated by his injuries and detained in barracks for three months on full pay, for two months on half pay, and for a further two months unpaid, when he was finally discharged as medically unfit with a gratuity of £28 1s. 1d., payable in monthly instalments; (3) whether owing to his being kept in this way in the service for seven months, after he received his injuries he is now debarred from claiming compensation under the Workmen’s Compensation Act; and, if so (4) will the Government take his case into special consideration and make provision for his compensation?

Will the hon. member be good enough to allow the question to stand over so that I can, make inquiry ?“FORTY YEARS MONEY.”

asked the Minister of Native Affairs whether any steps will be taken during the current year with a view to commutation of the annual payments to Griquas of the so-called “Forty Years Money”?

(on behalf of the Minister of Native Affairs)’ replied: The matter is still under consideration. The Government hopes during the adjournment to arrive at a definite decision which will in due course be announced.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether a number of ticket examiners who went on strike in January and returned to service have, upon re-employment, been reduced to the position of guards, and, if so, whether the Minister will see that they are restored to their former position in accordance with the spirit of the Bill ?

replied: I am not aware that this is the case, but I have caused inquiries to be made in the matter.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) In view of the recent railway accident at Boshoff’s-road station, would it not be advisable to have a carriage and wagon examiner at Hilton-road to see that all brakes are in order before descending the steep gradient, Hilton-road to Pietermaritzburg; and (2) in view of the recent railway accidents, would it not be advisable to have a small ambulance equipment in passenger mail vans so that it might be available in case of need?

(1) I shall ask the Administrator to look into this suggestion. (2) Passenger trains, except on certain suburban routes, are always provided or being provided with ambulance chests, and the principal stations are also supplied with first-aid appliances and equipment. A number of recently-constructed passenger vans are also fitted with a special cupboard containing emergency tools and first aid outfits.“LAMZIEKTE.”

asked the Minister of Agriculture: (1) Whether he read the article of Mr. Goemans on “Lamziekte ” in “Ons Land, ” of Saturday last; (2) whether he is aware that Mr. Goemans sent an article on “Lamziekte ” to the Chief Veterinary Surgeon last year with the request that it might be published in the “Agricultural Journal,” but that this was refused, in spite of the fact that Mr. Goemans was prepared to explain all technical terms; (3) can Dr. Theiler say whether lamziekte is, according to Mr. Goemans, a self-poisoning or auto-intoxication, or whether it is an affection of the nagus caused by too much alkali in the blood, and whether lamziekte can be compared to milk fever in Europe; and (4) what reasons had Dr. Theiler for accepting that lamziekte was caused by a vegetable poison which was supposed to accumulate in the muscles, seeing that the search for that imaginary poison has been costing the Government thousands of pounds for many years past?

replied: As this question necessitates the matter being referred to Sir Arnold Theiler and the Principal Veterinary Surgeon, for report, will the hon. member defer his question to a later date so as to enable the necessary inquiries to be made?

asked for leave to introduce a Bill to amend the Prescription Amendment Act, 1908, of the Transvaal (Act No. 26 of 1908).Leave was granted.

Mr. Speaker, I—

The hon. member must know that there can be no debate.

I was merely going to say

The hon. member must know that there can be no debate

I only wanted to ask The Bill was read a first time, and set down for second reading on April 23.

asked for leave to introduce a Bill to amend the definition of the word “native” in section 5 of Act No. 28, of 1898 of the Colony of the Cape of Good Hope Leave was granted. The Bill was read a first time, and set down for second reading on May 6.

moved that a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into and report upon the petition of John Gow and George Maitland Taylor, presented to this House on the 25th February, 1914; the committee to have power to take evidence and call for papers, and to consist of five members. The mover said he did not wish to stir up any controversy as to who was responsible. His only object was to bring to the notice of the House the case of certain men who suffered most undeservedly during these events, and to request that an inquiry should take place into the case and, if possible, compensation be granted.

The hon. member proceeded to read the petition, which was to the effect that no adequate police or military protection had been given to the inhabitants of Benoni against the violence of the strikers. Mr. Taylor, who had heard that his property was to be destroyed, had communicated with the police station, and asked for police protection for their property, but the sergeant stated that that was the 18th application they had had for police protection that day. The petition also stated that 10 men and a corporal had been in the vicinity while the burning was going on, and nothing whatever had been done to protect the property. The safe, which contained valuable documents, had later been broken open by the mob, and the contents removed. The loss sustained was over £5,000, and although the buildings were insured the insurance company disclaimed liability on the ground that the fire had been caused by the mob or riot.

The hon. member went on to say that he did not think that that statement of tact was, could be or had been seriously controverted. The mob had been bent on destruction, and that had been one of the victims on the list, and the premises had been destroyed as stated. Why the case deserved the special attention of that House was that although apparently the police were in sight and within hail, no attempt seemed to have been made to give Messrs. Gow and Taylor protection. It was the right of every citizen to be given such protection against a lawless and inflamed mob (Hear, hear.) He thought that Messrs. Gow and Taylor were justified in claiming that they were entitled to expect that the police would make some effort to prevent the wanton destruction of property in broad daylight, and that after the work of destruction had been done at least their safe, containing documents and property of value, would have been protected against the looters. Destruction such as that could not but be viewed with abhorrence by anybody who was in favour of law and order. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member went on to quote from a report in the “Rand Daily Mail dealing with the same occurrence. Proceeding, the hon. member said that not only had the mob not been interfered with by the police, which was intelligible, because the mob might have been of such force as to overpower the police, but after the fire, such goods as had been left were left to the mercy of the mob. The hon. member also read an extract from the report of the Commission which quoted from a report of what the hon. member for Springs (Mr. Madeley) had said, to the effect that there had not been a single policeman on the scene, and that one did not come until So hours afterwards. The firm had supplied goods to certain people, which it had been perfectly entitled to do, and for that reason its property had been destroyed, and Mr. Gow and his partner, Mr. Taylor, had been ruined because they had supplied the mine with bread. That was not the worst, to his mind, because it was alleged that the day before that happened the petitioners, being scared, had gone to the Strike Committee, and had promised to stop the supply of goods to those noxious to the strikers.

The promises given by the Strike Committee were disregarded and the premises were burned just as if no undertaking had been given. These men of whom he spoke did not belong to that class against whom the House heard fulminations—they were not magnates, they were working-men— (cheers)—who out of their savings—(Labour laughter)—the hon. member for Jeppe laughed.

I was laughing at the cheers for the working men.

said these men were capitalists in the sense that they used their savings in business, and they were capitalists to the same extent as were some of the hon. members on the cross benches. (Cheers.) They found themselves absolutely ruined by the losses they had suffered. If the Select Committee found that they had a claim, he trusted that the House would fulfil that claim. (Hear, hear.) The claim on the State might be a remote one. He did not allege that they had a claim in law, but until these events happened every citizen of South Africa had reason to believe that the State would protect him against violence from whatsoever source it might arrive—(hear hear)—so long as he obeyed the law. In these cases this protection was absolutely wanting and even denied. That did give the men a claim that the state should take into consideration what they had suffered.

said the law in England did make provision for such cases, for the aggrieved parties might recover compensation if house property had been injured or destroyed by riot. He was in a dilemma. A great many other people had been seriously injured in a similar way to the petitioners, and he was uneasy whether in mentioning the others he might damage the prospects of Gow and Taylor. The Rand Chamber of Commerce had been in communication with the Government on these matters. It had been found that damage had been done by riot and looting to the extent of over £25,000. In some of these cases the loss had been as ruinous as that sustained by Messrs. Gow and Taylor. As it was thought advisable for the country to pay a very large sum to the New Kleinfontein strike breakers, in common fairness the State should pay something to these sufferers. If Parliament took into consideration the loss direct and indirect, of everyone concerned throughout the country it would amount to an enormous sum, which the House, could not pay. There was a well-known case right in the heart of Johannesburg, in which a large firm of outfitters had their plate-glass frontage—250 feet in length—deliberately destroyed in broad daylight, while an attempt was made to blow up the place with dynamite. If Messrs. Gow and Taylor could afford to lose their £5,000, he would be inclined to say let the matter go, but they were absolutely ruined, and soon after the riots they had to call a meeting of creditors and pay out 2s. in the £.

said he presumed that the object of moving for a Select Committee was to obtain compensation, and he hoped the Minister of Finance would give the matter his very careful consideration. They all admitted that Gow and Taylor had been very harshly treated, but he presumed they were not the only people who sustained very heavy damage in a similar way. If the State once opened the door by paying compensation to these people, it must be prepared to pay all the claims which would no doubt come into this House. Therefore he could not possibly vote for the motion. We had had numbers of rebellions, and the principle of paying compensation for damage thereby sustained had never been accepted. There had been a rebellion in his own constituency, in which farmers and others sustained very heavy damage, but never received a penny compensation. If they were going to depart from that principle and pay compensation, then they would be embarking on a very dangerous course, the consequences of which should fully be realised. After all, they had to consider the taxpayers of the country.

said he wished the hon. member for Bechuanaland had expressed the same sentiments last Tuesday—(hear, hear)—for the remission of quitrent also meant a loss of revenue. Mr. D. H. W. WESSELS (Bechuanaland: They are not parallel cases at all.

We have had at least half-a-dozen Commissions inquiring into the reduction of quitrents. Continuing, Mr. Jagger said he wished to support the motion, as he considered it a very bad case. The petitioners were two law-abiding citizens, carrying on a legitimate business in an orderly way. Their sole offence was that they served the employees on the New Kleinfontein Mines, and refused to subscribe to the strike funds. The only authority at Benoni at that time was not the Minister of Justice, but the Strike Committee, to which Gow and Taylor went, and after they had given an undertaking that they would cease supplying the miners still at work at the New Kleinfontein, the embargo was removed. According to the evidence, Mr. Madeley and others assured the petitioners that they would reap the benefit of their sacrifice later on. Two days later the fire took place. Gow and Taylor took all possible steps to preserve their property and to warn the police. The petitioners had a very strong claim in equity to some compensation. So far as he understood the English law, if this case had occurred in England, they would have got compensation, not perhaps from the central authority, but from the local authority.

said he also thought, like the hon. member for Cape Town, that the hon. member for Bechuanaland was entirely wrong in dealing with this question as he had done. It appeared to him that the cases were not at all parallel. The hon. member had quoted cases where farmers, storekeepers, etc., had received no compensation for losses they had incurred during rebellion. That was a state of war. This was an entirely different thing. They had found in Benoni a state of affairs which was entirely brought about by the Government itself. He did not want to defend the situation or argue upon it. He had dealt very fully with the matter on a previous occasion in this House. He should support the hon. member for Fordsburg in his effort to get an inquiry into this case. (Laughter.) He wondered why hon. members laughed. He wanted to see a thorough inquiry, at which witnesses would be called from both sides, so that this House and the country would be able to get a fair estimate of precisely what happened—not evidence on one side only, as they had in the case of the Disturbances Commission.

Why did you not give evidence before the Commission?

Simply because the Commission was not constituted as we desired. Proceeding, he said he was in favour of the petitioners being compensated for the losses they had incurred entirely owing to the lack of police supervision by the Government. He could entirely endorse what the hon. member for Fordsburg had said, at all events, in regard to certain statements in the petition. There was one statement, however, to which he must take exception, or, at any rate, the information on which it was based viz., that the petitioners had received information that they were mentioned on any particular list of burnings or riots. There was no list, as far as he (Mr. Madeley) knew. He was, he supposed, for at least a week before these happenings occurred, in daily contact with the Benoni Strike Committee and he knew that there were no such discussions and that there was no reference to burnings or riotings, except this, that the Strike Committee resolved to do all in its power to prevent any such happenings. The Strike Committee appointed pickets. About 400 or 500 men were armed with sticks and concentrated with the object of being sent out in parties in order to prevent disturbances. That was what he meant when he had said that “the Strike Committee ran Benoni.” He had information from numbers of eye-witnesses that the same gang that burned Gow and Taylor’s premises had previously endeavoured to burn the house of one Donne, but in the latter case they found the place so well guarded by the police that they could not possibly get near. He thought that was a strong argument in favour of the petitioners. When this gang openly stated, as he was informed, that they were going to Gow and Taylor’s to do what they had tried to do at Donne’s place, nobody stirred a finger to prevent it. He was quite prepared to accept the hon. member’s statement that a number of mounted police ran across, though previously he was not aware that any of the forces of the Crown were in the vicinity of this place during the burning. If it were proved, as he was sure it would be proved, if a Select Committee were appointed, that these men lost their property on account of the fact that the Government did not supply sufficient police protection, then compensation ought to be granted. There were, however, other cases in which people who had suffered losses had an equally strong claim. Lindsay and Perrie suffered much greater loss through burning than Gow and Taylor. One night, hearing certain rumours, he was walking about in Benoni when he met a detachment of police. He discussed the matter with them, and they came to the conclusion that there was nothing in the rumour that there was likely to be a disturbance. Now, the members of that detachment were absolutely worn out. They were stationed as a kind of flying column at the police barracks. All the other troops were concentrated at the Kleinfontein Mine. The sergeant in command of that detachment told him that for three nights he had not had a wink of sleep. Naturally these men were only too anxious to get back and have some sleep. They and he (Mr. Madeley) went off to bed about 1 a.m. About 8 o’clock next morning he was informed by the friend with whom he was staying that Lindsay and Perrie’s premises had been burned and looted. None of the insurance companies were paying out, because these things happened during a condition of riot. He claimed that it was the duty of this House, if the law did not allow it, to see that the people who had suffered losses were at least compensated as to a proportion of their losses. When Messrs. Gow and Taylor came to the Strike Committee he was present, and he heard everything that was said. They were told that there was no question of the Strike Committee authorising any destruction of property and that they had never dreamt of it. Mr. Taylor particularly requested that the embargo should be removed, The Committee asked what embargo he was referring to. He (Mr. Madeley) might explain that the embargo was the decision of the working people in Benoni not to deal with Gow and Taylor, a decision which had been arrived at not so much because they were supplying what were known locally as “scabs.” as by reason of a statement made by Mr. Taylor on the Market-square to a woman who was collecting on behalf of the strike. Mr. Taylor did not content himself with refusing to contribute but he also added, “If I had my way. I would thrash the strikers back to work. That had its influence. In addition to the cases of Gow and Taylor and Lindsay and Perrie, there were also the cases of Nurse Scott and the Benoni Produce Co., all of which ought to be inquired into.

said that one could not help noticing the light and airy way in which the member who had just sat down talked about these things, although he must say that there was a different and far better tone than he adopted in Cape Town about July 27 and at Salt River, when he described these things in a way which he (Mr. Merriman) should think would have disgusted any man who had any sense of decency and order. He wished to draw attention to one or two facts in connection with this matter. The first was in regard to the time it took place. On July 5 the representatives of these forces of disorder had signed an agreement with the Government, which was known as the Bain-Botha Treaty, in which they especially said that there should be no victimisation.

It was agreed there should be an amnesty, but within twelve hours there was rioting and burning at Benoni. That was the way these people kept an agreement, and it only showed how far they could trust such men to keep their word. These were the apostles of economic liberty, and they signalised the principle by burning down property. A more disgraceful thing had never been committed, and it should be a warning to the Government in future, when dealing with the forces of disorder in this country. The most extraordinary thing was that while this was going on nothing appeared to be done in order to stop rioting and lawlessness. He presumed there was a magistrate not far away, nor could the authorities have been ignorant of what was transpiring, and although it was only 15 miles from Johannesburg, yet no attempt appeared to have been made to strengthen the hands of the police. Did they mean to tell him that the 500 armed police stationed at Benoni were powerless to control the mob, and yet not a single man was arrested and no attempt made to stop the riot? Of course, the strike leaders in the first place were in the wrong, because they allowed their men to null out the furniture and burn the house of a poor, unfortunate woman. They had burned the stores of two respectable tradesmen, whose only crime was that they had been successful in their little way of business These were the capitalists whom the friends of the hon. members on the cross-benches thought were fair game. Why, there were men amongst the strikers who were drawing as much money as the small tradesmen whose premises they cowardly burned down. There was a great deal still to be known about the Benoni affair, and he hoped the Government would not try to stave off further inquiry, because it was necessary the country should know why the police adopted their attitude of non-interference. In the legislation which the hon. member was introducing in regard to riots, he (Mr. Merriman) thought that if that sort of thing was going on in the country, there should be a system of charging up the cost of such lawlessness to the locality in which it occurred. They should not allow properties to be burned down and all sorts of rioting to take place while the people were looking on. Where were those men who spoke so loudly of their regard for law and order at that time, that they did not assist in keeping it? Where were the members who speak from the cross-benches, and who prided themselves on their regard for order? He repeated again there ought to be a searching inquiry about these proceedings which took place at Benoni. If it had been the case of a farmhouse having been burnt down, a full and searching inquiry would at once have been made, but because the sufferers were only small, tradesmen, or what the member for Springs styled as capitalists, nothing more was likely to be heard of it.

said he was pleased to see the motion proposed by the hon. member for Fordsburg, although he did not know whether a Select Committee was the most suitable body to go into all these matters. How could such a committee get all the evidence that would be needed to come down to Cape Town? Anyone having witnessed the happenings of July found that he was hardly able to describe them. There were more things besides this Gow and Taylor matter to be gone into. Seeing that the hon. member for Springs welcomed the Select Committee, it gave him the impression that the hon. member was beginning to feel conscience-stricken. After all, the leaders of the Labour Party were the cause of the events of July. As to the argument that the locality ought to be charged with the damage done, he wished to know how the people who had nothing would be able to pay ? In the end there was no doubt that the peaceful citizens would have to pay the piper. Dealing with the argument of the hon. member for Victoria West, in regard to the desecration of the Sabbath, the hon. member said he hoped a Bill would be introduced soon to stop all this Sabbath desecration which was going on at present. Unfortunately there were many Afrikanders desecrating the Sabbath at present, but he hoped there would soon be an end to the present state of affairs. The hon. member for Jeppe had yesterday referred to an address received by him from a number of Afrikanders at a wayside station named Van Zijl, Bezuidenhout, and Geldenhuis. He (Mr. Geldenhuys) would like to see these signatures. (Laughter.) In conclusion, the hon. member said that he would like to see the events referred to in the motion gone into, and although he was not in favour of large amounts of State money being given away, he would like to see the names of the leaders given plainly and clearly.

said that the little he had been able to understand of the last speech that had been made showed the inadvisability of the Minister delaying his statement to a later stage. The speech showed lack of knowledge as to how to vote, and the latter part was less effective than the earlier parts. Continuing, Mr. Creswell said that his interjection during the speech of the right hon. the member for Victoria West was a fitting comment on what the right hon. gentleman was saying. Of all the unfair and ridiculous things, nothing was more unfair and ridiculous than what the right hon. gentleman laid at the doors of Mr. Bain and Mr. Matthews and other Trade Union leaders who negotiated with the Government over the Bain-Botha treaty.

I did not lay a charge. What I did say was that it was a duty to stop them.

There are several answers to that.

Oh, yes.

Though one may be sufficient, I will give the right hon. gentleman others. Continuing, he said that on that Sunday these very men were defending themselves against men who were angry with them for having made terms with the Government. Was Mr. Bain an officer of police?

He was one of the leaders.

The leaders! We began this session with discussions about July and January, and we are finishing the first half with another, and no doubt it will go on for years, if hon. members will take so little trouble in order to understand the position. The leaders of what? The leaders of Trade Unions, or the leaders of any Tom, Dick and Harry who chooses to break the law—which? Does he mean to say that Mr. Bain and Mr. Matthews were responsible for acts which men committed during the strike? The hon. member for Cape Town, Central, is in charge of a large business. Is he responsible for what his clerks do outside their business hours? I know he tries to be responsible for their political opinions, but—

That is absolutely false.

What is false ?

That I try to influence my employees’ political opinions.

I wish to say

It is absolutely false.

The exact words I used were that the hon. member for Cape Town, Central, tried to be responsible for the political opinions—-—

I say that is false, too.

I know the hon. member too well to think

You have made a direct charge.

I know that the hon. member for Cape Town, Central, is not a person who is altogether divided into water-tight compartments, and if he has a large number of men in his employ no doubt they would find it healthy on the whole to agree with him.

That is absolutely false.

If there is any member of this House against whom I do not desire to make unfair insinuations it is the hon. member for Cape Town, Central.

Why do you do it, then?

Really, really, Mr. Speaker, can’t the hon. member see

The hon. member must address the Chair.

I am addressing you, sir, and asking the hon. member for Cape Town, Central, through you, whether he desires to be spared the effects of his policy? Continuing, Mr. Creswell said that Mrs. Scott said that she must admit that the strikers had nothing to do with it. He did not say that not one of these men were strikers. What he did say was that all the Trade Union leaders were responsible for was declaring the strike off. It was the business of the Government and not the business of the Trade Union leaders, to keep order. They did not incite riot.

Oh!

Prove it!

made an interjection with reference to Mr. Bain.

Has Mr. Bain been examined on that point? Those hon. members who are interjecting are doing more for the true forward movement of liberty in South Africa than they wot of. It is their policy to condemn without trial, to deport without trial, and back up the Government in all its illegal actions against the Trade Unions, but they all would soon be swept out of the realm of politics. It was absurd to blame Mr. Bain, or Mr. Matthews, or any of the other leaders tor things that went on in Benoni, 25 miles away, which had nothing to do with their functions as Trade Union leaders. The right hon. the member for Victoria West and the hon. member for Cape Town, Central, had made up their minds that the Trade Union leaders were responsible for every act of the men on strike.

So they are.

Could they punish? What would have been said if they had been organised as a police force?

made an interjection, which was inaudible.

It is incredible that a man with the experience of life of the right hon. gentleman should interject a remark like that, “Don’t they punish when they say putting in the boot?” Was the right hon. gentleman so unfamiliar with the ordinary passions aroused among a mob not to know that where there was a row, there was bound to be expressions of that sort, Were the Trade Union leaders responsible for these breaches of order?

Who ordered to boycott?

The hon. member for Cape Town, Central, seems to know a good deal more than the magistrate of Benoni.

You were not there.

Quite so. I am talking about the magistrate of Benoni, who has less knowledge. Though he had less knowledge than the hon. member for Cape Town, Central, he had more knowledge of those circumstances than I have. Hon. members who have been disowned by their constituents, and have no standing whatever really in this House, are now trying to make up things, by attributing all responsibility to the Trade Union leaders. The hon. member reiterated that the strike leaders had no responsibility whatever for the burning which took place, and that the mob was responsible, and that the Government was responsible for not having sufficient police there. He thought that the Select Committee should have its functions extended; and while he had every sympathy with the case of Messrs. Gow and Taylor, there were other cases equally deserving.

said that the hon. member for Springs and the hon. member for Jeppe now desired to throw the whole blame on the Government for what had happened at Benoni but until that afternoon the contention of the hon. member for Springs and his friends had been that it was he and his friends who had run Benoni. It was very convenient to say that they and their friends had not had an opportunity of making their position clear but the judges stated in their report that they had every opportunity to give evidence but had refused to do so. All through the whole strike these gentlemen and their friends claimed to have run the place, and to have sent permits to the Johannesburg Municipality as to water, light, and so forth. Now, because something turned up, for which it was suggested they were indirectly responsible, oh, no, they had nothing to do with it. Why, if these people had run the place, had they not protected the public from outrage? They pretended to have more authority than they really had, continued the hon. member, after quoting from the Commission’s report. The hon. member for Springs had given a guarantee to the Minister of Finance that certain things would not happen, but if he (Mr. Chaplin) had been Minister of Finance he would not have taken the guarantee of the hon. member and would not have attached a featherweight of authority to it. (Laughter.) His point was that they could not have it both ways. The hon. member went on to allude to a riot which had once taken place in Trafalgar-square, London, and to the fact that afterwards some property had been damaged, as a result of which compensation had been paid to the people who had suffered. The case of Messrs. Gow and Taylor seemed to be a hard one, and they had been intimidated into not doing their legitimate business. They had “reaped their reward,” and the whole of their premises had been burned down. He hoped the Government would take the case into consideration, and see whether a scheme could not be devised to deal equitably with these people.

wondered whether there was a metal sufficiently hard with which they could erect a statute to the hon. member for Springs, but he did not think there was a metal sufficiently hard to depict the cheek of the hon. member. (Loud laughter.) It was a very pleasant quarrel between the hon. members on the cross-benches. They and their friends were largely responsible for the unfortunate events that had taken place. He (Sir Thomas) had another word to say to the hon. gentlemen on the cross-benches. Today they spoke of the necessity of police protection, and stated that they were going to support the motion, because the Government were not able to give the necessary police protection to the people. But when a large number of persons considered it necessary to help the Government by enrolling themselves as special constables the hon. members on the cross-benches denounced them as scabs. (Cheers.) They could not have it both ways, and they could not now repudiate their responsibility for their association with the wanton destruction of property. The House was glad that the hon. member for Jeppe had repudiated the Strike Committee, but he (Sir Thomas) would like to know what the hon. member for George Town would think of that repudiation of their leader. Owing to the extraordinary position of affairs under which the State was not able to give the unfortunate petitioners the protection they deserved he hoped the Government would accept the proposal to appoint a Select Committee, and he felt perfectly certain the result would be that the committee would come forward with some recommendation that the State would do something to relieve the unfortunate condition in which the petitioners, through no fault of their own, had found themselves placed. The right hon. the member for Victoria West had referred to the payment of compensation by the districts concerned. But he (Sir Thomas) did not think that was at all suitable to the conditions that existed here, because the vast bulk of the population of Benoni were not in favour of the lawlessness that had taken place there. The unfortunate state of affairs that had prevailed was largely owing to the fact that certain members of the House did not recognise their responsibilities, and did not advise the people to maintain law and order at all costs. (Cheers.)

said the mover would not expect that the discussion on the motion would take the turn that it had done, for instead of being a simple discussion on the proposal it had been a discussion on the whole of the events of last July. That showed the danger they would have to face in appointing a Select Committee to inquire into the particular petition, for he would have to inquire into these July occurrences again. The case of Messrs. Gow and Taylor was not an isolated one nor was it the hardest one. If the House appointed a Select Committee on this particular case he did not see how they could refuse to appoint a Select Committee on other cases. That would really mean bringing down the whole of the population of Benoni, as every person there would either be a sufferer or a witness. He would suggest that he should rather undertake to hold an inquiry through a magistrate, who should report to him (Mr. De Wet) with the evidence. He thought that would meet the case very much better than having a Select Committee, for Select Committees were rather apt to go into outside matters. The basis of the allegation in the petition was that there was not enough police protection, but he did not think that this ex parte statement, and such statements as that the police deliberately abstained from giving protection, should go forth unchallenged. As to Messrs. Gow and Taylor’s case the facts were to a certain extent as stated in the petition, but the facts in the petition were ex parte statements, and until they were examined into the House could not take them as the absolute and only facts. From the Judicial Commission’s report it appeared that two days before the burning took place Messrs. Gow and Taylor invoked the protection of the Strike Committee and they were actually under the protection of the Strike Committee when the fire occurred. The House had had an account from the hon. member for Springs of what took place last July, but it was much better instead of going into these matters here to hold a magisterial inquiry at which witnesses could be examined under oath. That would not preclude the House in other cases from doing something similar in a cheap and effective way, but if they had a Select Committee in this case they could not refuse a Select Committee in other cases, and that would lead to a multiplicity of committees—

And a great deal of expense.

As regards the question of liability, I cannot admit any liability for compensation. In the Union it is clear it is no legal liability on the Government—just as little liability as there would be if a man were killed in a street brawl for the Government to support his widow.

said he would like to have a Select Committee, but unfortunately he was in a position to which the proverb “Beggars cannot be choosers,” applied. He owed a duty to the petitioners which he ought to discharge, and as the Minister of Justice had promised a magisterial inquiry he (Mr. Duncan) was willing to accept that. But he would like to suggest to the Minister that it would be advisable that the inquiry should be held without undue delay. (Hear, hear.) Under the circumstances he would withdraw the motion.

By leave of the House the motion was withdrawn.

That the petition from A. Caesar, of Cape Town, a baker by trade, who, after having been sentenced at the Criminal Session held at Cape Town in 1912 to undergo imprisonment with hard labour for ten years, received a free pardon, but has since suffered both physically and financially from the sentence, praying that the House may take his case into consideration and grant him relief, presented to this House on the 24th March, 1914, be referred to the Government for consideration.

The motion was agreed to.

That the petition from D. Brink and 186 others, inhabitants of Riebeek Kasteel, Riebeek West and surrounding district, praying for railway communication with Hermon, or for other relief, presented to this House on the 24th March, 1914, be referred to the Government for consideration.

The motion was agreed to.

moved for a return of all persons appointed and promoted in the Railway and Harbour Services, carrying a salary of from £400 to £1,000 per annum, since Union, at Cape Town, Salt River, Port Elizabeth, East London, and Durban, showing the length of service of each such person, the nature and place of his employment at the date of such appointment or promotion, and the length of service at such date of the person immediately subordinate to the person so appointed or promoted at the place to which the latter was transferred, appointed or promoted.

The motion was agreed to.

on behalf of Mr. J. H. B Wessels, moved: That the petitions from W. Bouwer and 53 others, S. Goldberg and 16 others, H. Frysh and 36 others, and A. Colenbrander and 12 others, registered voters in the division of Heilbron, praying for the extension of the Wolvehoek-Heilbron railway line to Lindley, and thence to Lindley-road, or for other relief, presented to this House on the 1st April, 1914, be referred to the Government for consideration.

The motion was agreed to.

for Mr. J. H. B. Wessels, moved: That the petitions from J. J. Els and 81 others, E. T. Miller and 70 others, J. J. Smit and 50 others, P. J. Els and 47 others, J. C. Opperman and 45 others, A. C. F. Smit and 25 others and F. C. Lochner and 12 others—all registered voters in the electoral division of Heilbron—praying for the extension of the Wolvehoek-Heilbron railway line to the town of Lindley and thence to Lindley Road, or for other relief, presented to this House on the 24th March, 1914, be referred to the Government for consideration.

Agreed to.

moved that the petitions from D. van Rooyen and 76 others, A. Jooste and 32 others, and J. M. de Witt and 42 others, inhabitants of Kakamas Labour Colony, praying for railway communication to Kakamas, or for other relief, presented to this House on the 24th and 25th March, 1914, respectively, be referred to the Government for consideration.

The motion was agreed to.

for Sir D. Hunter (Durban, Central), moved that the petition from Hojee Hofiz Hoosen and Mohamed Bodot, representing the Mohammedan community of Natal praying that some fit and proper person may be appointed as a marriage officer in the Province of Natal, for the solemnisation of marriages of persons professing the Mohammedan faith and that such marriages shall in all respects be governed by Mohammedan law as set forth in the Koran, presented to this House on the 7th May, 1913, be laid upon the Table of the House, and, if agreed to, that it be referred to the Government for consideration.

The petition was laid on the Table.

The motion was agreed to.

for Mr. N. W. Serfontein (Frankfort) moved that the petition from J. J. A. de Beer and 342 others, Inhabitants of the district of Frankfort, praying for the extension of the railway line from Frankfort to the Groot Vlei Coal Mine line, or for other relief, presented to this House on March 25, 1914, be referred to the Government for consideration.

The motion was agreed to.