from H. E. Marshall, Civil Commissioner, for condonation of a break in his service.

from T. Byrne, formerly an engine-driver, for relief.

stated that in future hon. members should hand in notices of questions to the Clerk at the Table.

gave notice that on Thursday next he would move for leave to introduce a Bill to apply a sum not exceeding £5,000,000 for the services of the year ending March 31, 1915.

When is my hon. friend going to bring forward his Budget?

The Budget will come after this Partial Appropriation Bill.

brought up the first report of the Select Committee on Public Accounts, which was set down for consideration on Thursday next.

laid on the Table the reports of the Indian Inquiry Commission.

Return showing number of men in the railway and harbour departments whose services were dispensed with during the year 1913; the pay, age, and service of such men, the cause for dismissal, the departments in which they worked, and further particulars. Returns showing in respect of the principal grades of daily paid employees the maxima substantive rates of pay now in operation compared with those in force on the separate Administrations in 1899 and 1909, and further particulars.

The Minister appealed to members not to ask for returns unless they were absolutely necessary, as the preparation of returns was an enormous tax on the time of the Administration at a period like the present.

asked the Minister of Defence whether censorship rules, instructions as to which were destroyed by the Minister’s orders, were those actually used in the areas under Martial Law; if not, whether he will lay on the Table of this House copies of all instructions issued by his department or by control officers with regard to censorship during the Martial Law regime?

No; they had nothing whatever to do with Martial Law. The information asked for in the other part of this question was given to the House by the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs on the 3rd March.

asked the Minister of Defence whether he is aware of the fact that the men who attended drilling instructions at Humansdorp had to pay their own expenses, and that some of these men were from 8s. to 13s. out of pocket; and whether he will refund these men their expenses and in future make provision to prevent a repetition of such circumstances by providing the men with horses, accommodation and rations?

The regulations provide for rail transport at Government expense for an allowance to dismounted men when journeys by road exceeding five miles are involved, and for a ration and forage allowance when the journey occupies four hours or more. These allowances are paid on presentation of claims duly certified. The particular citizens to whom this question evidently refers have been advised to render their claims.

on behalf of Mr. Creswell, asked the Minister of Mines and Industries: (1) What was the total amount paid in wages to miners on the Witwatersrand during the three months ended 31st December, 1913, and the average per man at work per month; and (2) what was the total amount oi wages paid to miners on the Witwatersrand for February, 1914, and the average per month per man at work?

There are no statistics available in regard to the question asked. The general wages statistics are obtained every six months and are published in due course.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether it is the case that a large order for locomotives and coaches has recently been placed in Germany, and, if so, whether he will state (1) the price at which the order has been placed and also the prices tendered by unsuccessful competitors, and (2) what previous experience of South African conditions the successful competitor possesses?

Orders for 10 locomotives and for 34 coaches of different types have been recently placed in Germany. For locomotives the tender accepted was from a German firm at £5,160 per engine, f.o.b. Hamburg. Engines to be built to Administration’s specification. The price was subsequently increased to £5,262 per engine owing to amendments made in specification. For coaches the tender accepted was that of a German firm at a total of £60,403, f.o.b. Hamburg, for 34 coaches of different types.

The tenders of the unsuccessful competitors in order of price were as follow:

Locomotives: American firm, £4,931 per engine, f.a.s. New York, to their specification; German firm, £4,950 per engine, f.o.b. Hamburg, to their specification; American firm, £5,164 per engine, a.v. New York; American firm, £5,576 per engine, c.i.f. Cape Town; British firm, £6,515 per engine, f.o.b. Glasgow; British firm, £6,850 per engine, f.o.b. Birkenhead; British firm, £6,990 per engine, f.o.b. Birkenhead; British firm, £6,990 per engine, f.o.b. Birkenhead; British firm, £7,056 per engine, f.o.b. Middlesbrough; British firm, £7,075 per engine, f.o.b. Hull; British firm, £7,190 per engine, f.o.b, Birkenhead, all to Administration’s specification. The lowest British tender was £6,515 per engine, f.o.b. Glasgow. The tender accepted was £5,160 per engine, f.o.b. Hamburg, making a difference of £1,355 for 10 £13,550.

Coaches: Continental firm, £80,948, f.o.b. Antwerp; American firm, £81,724, f.o.b. New York; British firm, £82,100, f.o.b. Mersey; Continental firm, £82,510, f.o.b. Hamburg; British firm, £83,525, f.o.b. Birkenhead; British Arm, £84,138, f.o.b. London or Liverpool; British firm, £84,309, f.o.b. Liverpool; Continental firm, £84,310, f.o.b. Antwerp; British firm, £86,847, f.o.b. London or Birkenhead; British firm, £88,015, f.o.b. Glasgow; British firm, £90,616, f.o.b. Thames or Mersey; Continental firm, £91,090, f.o.b. Antwerp; British firm, £96,476, f.o.b. Birkenhead. The lowest British tender was £82,100, f.o.b. Mersey. The tender accepted was £60,403, f.o.b. Hamburg, making a difference of £21,697. (2) None, so far as is known, but thorough provision has been made that the work shall be carried out to the specification of the Administration and subject to the detailed supervision of one of its experienced officers.

Will the Minister inform the House whether the order for coaches placed in Germany was accepted by the Government against the advice of its technical officers?

said he could answer that question immediately. The order for the 34 coaches was placed upon the unanimous decision of the Railway Board. When he said that he must make a slight qualification. For some time past the Administration had grave reasons to be dissatisfied with the continually increasing prices which had been charged by British firms with which we had been doing business in the past. The Railway Commissioners, himself included, took the view that they placed all the orders they could in Great Britain. That was their policy and their principle, and they preferred to do that even though it cost something more, and they carried out that policy right throughout. (Cheers.) But for some time past there was no doubt that the prices charged by the leading British firms caused dissatisfaction. If the House knew how many orders were given away from British firms it would see how little there was in this matter. There had been some ground for a reasonable suspicion that in the prices of the British firms there had been collaboration. In connection with the order for 34 coaches, originally tenders were asked for only from British firms. Although the department had not precluded itself from asking for world-wide tenders, the practice had been to obtain tenders from certain well-known firms with which the department had done business in the past. However, the Railway Board decided unanimously that the time had arrived when it should endeavour to introduce a healthier aspect into this matter by calling for world wide tenders. (Cheers.) There had remained only one question, and that was whether the German firm was a firm of repute able to carry out the contract. He made inquiries through the most authoritative quarters and he was informed that it was one of the largest firms in Germany, that it was doing work on a large scale, and was able absolutely to carry out its contract. He came to the conclusion that notwithstanding their predilection for dealing with British firms, it appeared to him that they should give the tender to the German firm. The Railway Board were unanimous on the matter. One Commissioner agreed entirely. The other one differed to this extent—that as it was an experiment they should give the firm half the order. With that exception, the Board was perfectly unanimous.

said he had understood the Minister to say that they had called for world-wide tenders. In calling for tenders, were they thrown open to every manufacturer in Great Britain, or only to the scheduled firms in Great Britain?

said he was not quite sure of the exact position with regard to that, but as far as he was aware, it was absolutely an open invitation to the world in calling for those tenders.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether the Cape Goverment in 1904 made certain temporary retrenchment deductions from the salaries of the Cape railway staff, which continued until 1906; (2) whether in February, 1914, the Government decided to grant a special increment to those affected; (3) whether the Government limited this increment to men who were not drawing the maximum salary of their grade, according to the grading established in 1913; (4) whether, in consequence, very few of the salaried staff from whose salaries deductions were made, have benefited by the decision of the Government; and (5) whether the Government is prepared to take into consideration the advisability of paying back all deductions made from 1904 to 1906, or of granting the special increment to all the salaried staff from whose salaries deductions were made, irrespective of the salary now drawn, or, alternatively, of dating the grading back to 1912, so as to enable the men to obtain their ordinary increments sooner than would be the case under the 1913 grading?

(1) Yes. (2) No. The circumstances connected with the increases granted in February last are as follows: The deductions, which operated from the 1st October, 1904, were fixed at half the amount of any increases paid to members of the salaried staff during the financial year 1903-04, subject to their not exceeding £25 in any one case. The scale increases due in July, August and September, 1904, were duly paid, but those due after the 30th September were utilised to reduce or entirely wipe out the temporary deductions, no addition being made to the salaries of the officers concerned. When the deductions ceased in 1906, officers to whom increments had been granted prior to the 1st October, 1904, were in a better position than those ten whom increases were granted later; thus, it two clerks were each in receipt of a salary of £240 per annum on the 1st July, 1904, and their increases fell due, in the case of A, on the 1st September, and in the case of B, on the 1st October, A would receive £255 from the 1st September, less a deduction of £20 per annum, but in 1906, when the deductions were discontinued, his salary would revert to £255, whereas B’s salary, after the withdrawal of the retrenchment measures, would still remain at £240, the deduction of £20 being reduced to £5 from the date of his increase; so that, notwithstanding that these two men were on the same footing on the 1st July, 1904, the one would be receiving £15 per annum more than the other when the deductions ceased on the 1st July, 1906. This question was frequently raised by the staff affected with the late Cape Administration, but no steps were taken to rectify the obvious anomaly. Subsequent to Union representations were made to the Staff Committee, which, after investigating the circumstances, recommended that, whilst no adjustment could reasonably be applied to the period prior to Union, favourable consideration should be given the matter under the revised classification. This recommendation was approved, and the Administration decided that any officer detrimentally affected whose emoluments admitted of an adjustment being made within the limits of his grade, should have the increase thus lost to him, or such portion of it as his grading permitted, added to his salary. This decision was arrived at in February last, and special increments in this connection were granted, and antedated to the 1st April, 1913, the date of operation of the revised grading under the new classification. (3) Yes. (4) Comparatively few men still in the service were affected. (5) The reply to this question is in the negative. The Cape staff suffered deductions in addition to those made during the period 1904-06, but it is not reasonable to expect the Union Administration to make good these deductions. To apply the special increases to all members of the salaried staff from whom deductions were made would only perpetuate the anomaly which the increases were specially designed to rectify, and to grant increases irrespective and in excess of grade would tend to create further unjustifiable anomalies, especially as the grading has been fixed, not according to salaries, but according to the value of the work performed by individual officers.

asked the Minister of Finance whether any steps are taken by the Statistical or Customs, authorities to compare the declared value of exports of South African produce with the prices obtained when such product is sold, and if not, whether he will consider the advisability of instituting some such system of comparison?

The answer to the first part of the hon. member’s question is in the negative. As regards the second part of his question, it is most improbable that the results achieved under any such system as he appears to favour would justify the heavy additional cost to the Customs Administration.

asked the Minister of Defence: (1) What was the amount charged by Bullard-King Steamship Line for taking the nine deportees to London on the Umgeni; (2) was any special agreement entered into as to the Government paying any costs at law which might ensue against the captain or owners of the Umgeni; (3) what is the total amount the Government have paid or agreed to pay with respect to the special services of the Umgeni for deporting the nine men; and (4) has any special contract or agreement been entered into with respect to these deportations, and, if so, what are the terms of such contract or agreement?

The reply to (1) is, nine fares were paid of £22 10s. each; (2) no; (3) the Government paid £1,000 to the owners of the Umgeni as compensation for loss of trade; (4) no.

asked the Minister of the Interior: (1) Whether the qualifying examination for higher posts in the Civil Service was held in December, 1913, as required by section 7 of Act No. 29 of 1912, and if not, why not; (2) how many Civil Servants entered for the examination; (3) whether those who entered for the examination, and through no fault of their own were not examined, will be excused from passing any qualifying examination in the future?

(1) No examination was held. The reasons for this course are fully explained in paragraphs 55 and 56 of the last report of the Public Service Commission, to which I would refer the hon. member. (2) 286. (3) It is not possible to make any statement at present in regard to this portion of the hon. member’s question.

asked the Prime Minister whether any negotiations have taken place since Union between the Union Government or any member of the Government and the directors of the Chartered Company or any of their representatives or His Majesty’s Government with regard to the question of the transfer of Rhodesia or any part of it to the Union?

The answer is in the negative.

asked the Minister of Mines and Industries: (1) How many natives are being employed at the present time as drill sharpeners on the mines of the Witwatersrand; (2) what is the average rate of pay received by the said natives for such work; and (3) how many natives were so employed in December last?

I have no information on this subject.

asked the Minister of Mines and Industries: (1) How many Kafirs, Cape boys, and coloured men, respectively, are employed as learners on machine drills on the Witwatersrand mines, and what is the average rate of pay respectively; and (2) how many of these men were so employed at the 31st December last?

I am informed that there are no such persons employed as learners on machine drills. All coloured persons working on machines are in a sense learners.

asked the Minister of Lands whether, in view of the report by Mr. Cunningham Craig on petroleum prospects, Government is prepared to put down a trial hole in the vicinity of Klipplaat, or, if not there, at some other spot indicated by Mr. Craig?

The Government does not propose to embark money in prospecting operations for petroleum at present, but Mr. Craig’s recommendations will receive consideration during the coming year. Further, the Government is always prepared to consider the question of assisting mining development, provided that the chances of discovery are considered by its technical advisers to warrant expenditure and if other conditions are suitable.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs if he will consider the advisability of instituting a branch post office at the Modder (B) Mine on the East Rand?

The department has had under consideration the question of opening a sub-post office at the Modder (B) Mine, but when inquiries were last made no suitable person could be found to conduct the office. Renewed efforts are being made to secure the services of a suitable local person.

asked the Prime Minister: (1) Whether he is aware that great distress exists among the large number of unemployed in Benoni district; (2) whether it has been brought to his notice that the Benoni Town Council has instituted relief works to relieve this distress; and (3) will he consider the advisability of making a grant in aid to the Benoni Town Council for this purpose, pending his inception of a method of dealing with the general question of unemployment?

(1) Industrial disturbances seldom fail to be succeeded by a period of greater or less distress owing to unemployment, and I believe that Benoni has not proved an exception. (2) I have seen some reference there to in the public Press, but have no particulars. (3) I have no information which would lead me to believe that the steps which have been taken by the Government to relieve the distress are not reasonably adequate.

asked the Minister of Mines and Industries: (1) What number of cases of explosives were manufactured during the year 1913 at the respective dynamite factories in the Cape, Natal, and Transvaal Provinces; and (2) what were the number of white and coloured persons employed at each of the works?

(1) The number of cases of explosives manufactured during the year 1913 was as follows: Cape, 407,097; Natal, 230,080; Transvaal, 272,606; total, 909,783. (2) The average number of white and coloured persons employed during 1913 was as follows: White: Cape, 401; Natal, 220; Transvaal, 245. Coloured: Cape, 554; Natal, 700; Transvaal, 669.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether, in view of the opinion expressed in the Interim Report of the Dominions Royal Commission, that an increase in the depth of some of the large harbours of the Empire is urgently necessary, the Government will take into immediate consideration the deepening of the entrance to the Durban Harbour, and also increase the depth of the dry dock to be constructed at Durban to forty feet at least?

The depth of water at the Durban Harbour entrance is sufficient for all vessels at present calling at that port. As the size and draught of vessels increase the entrance can readily be deepened as required by further dredging, and, under the circumstances, there is no necessity for immediate action in the direction indicated. The question of the depth of the proposed dry dock at Durban has been carefully considered and due allowance made, in fixing the dimensions, for probable development in the size and draught of vessels likely to make use of the dock.

The drawings for the new dry dock, which are practically complete, show the following dimensions: 1,030 feet in length, 110 feet broad at entrance, 41 feet deep on sill at H.W.S.T., or 35 feet at low water. This is considered by all the technical officers as quite a generous allowance for development in the size and draught of vessels. The dimensions of the three largest new graving docks, except the Gladstone dock at Liverpool, are as follows:

Southampton: Trafalgar, 875 feet in length, 90 feet broad at entrance, 35 feet deep on sill at H.W.S.T.

Avonmouth: Royal Edward, 914 feet in length, 100 feet broad at entrance, 34 feet deep on sill at H W.S.T.

Panama: Balboa, 1,000 feet in length, 110 feet broad at entrance. 35 feet deep at mean sea level.

It will therefore be seen that the proposed new dock will accommodate a vessel of larger dimensions than the latest dock at Panama. The Gladstone Dock at Liverpool was constructed specially for the Aquitania and is used for loading and discharging vessels. It is therefore no criterion. The same depth is not required in a graving dock as at the quays where vessels are berthed, as heavily-laden vessels are ordinarily lightened before being docked, and those in a damaged condition can invariably be kept afloat and docked at high water, if necessary.

asked the Minister of Mines and Industries: (1) Whether there are any mines on the Witwatersrand which are working three eight-hour shifts per day with a blast at the end of each shift; (2) if so, which mines; (3) what arrangements, if any, are made by these mines for clearing away the smoke and dust resulting from such blasting; and (4) if smoke and dust are not removed, what steps does he propose taking to prevent loss of life among those men, white and black, who have to work under such conditions?

I must ask the hon. member to hold over this question, as I am making further inquiries in the matter.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs when he intends to give telephonic communication between King William’s Town and Keiskama Hoek, Peddie, Alice and Fort Beaufort?

All the places mentioned are already in telegraphic communication with King William’s Town. It cannot at present be said when it will be practicable to give them telephonic communication as well. It is intended to extend the Cookhouse—Adelaide section of the trunk telephone line to Fort Beaufort during the ensuing financial year.

asked the Minister of Justice what amounts have been paid as fines during the past six months by natives in the following Magistracies, viz., Estcourt, Greytown, Weenen, Kranskop, Helpmakaar and Dundee, and what have been the general reasons for such fines?

The fines paid by natives for the last six months are as follows: Estcourt, £908 16s. 6d. The Magistrate reports that the general reasons for such fines were contraventions of statute and common law. Greytown, £609, chiefly under the heads faction fighting, assaults, breaches of the peace, offences against morals, Master and Servants Act, Animal Diseases Act, and miscellaneous contraventions. Weenen, £326 17s. 6d., chiefly under the heads faction fighting, breaches of the peace, native code offences, assaults, and municipal by-laws. Kranskop, £737 10s. 10d., chiefly under the heads faction fighting, breaches of the peace, assault, and Stock Diseases Act. Helpmakaar, £1,245 13s. 7d., chiefly under the heads faction fighting, breaches of the peace, assault, hut tax contraventions and master and servants cases. Dundee, £633 7s., chiefly under the heads master and servants cases, thefts, hut tax laws, pass laws, breaches of the peace, and native code offences.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs: (1) Why a number of telegraphists have been removed from King William’s Town to Queen’s Town; (2) what is the extra cost incurred by such removal; (3) what rent is being paid in Queen’s Town for the extra premises rented there; and (4) what is the cause of the delay in the transmission of telegrams to King William’s Town since such removal?

(1) The recent removal of telegraphists from King William’s Town was due to a rearrangement of the circulation of telegraph traffic, undertaken with a view to facilitating the disposal of telegrams and reducing the number of transmissions. A considerable economy in staff has also resulted from the change. (2) The cost of transferring those officers from King William’s Town who were appointed to Queen’s Town was approximately, £200. (3) The Post and Telegraph Office at Queen’s Town is being remodelled and extended. Meanwhile temporary accommodation has been obtained in the Town Hall, at a rental of £10 per mensem. (4) No avoidable delay has taken place in connection with the transmission of telegrams to King William’s Town since the above change has been effected, but during January last there was abnormal pressure on the wires, in consequence of the strike, and during that period considerable delay was experienced at practically all main telegraph centres.

asked the Minister of Defence if he has yet discovered any reason why none of the authors of the thirty-eight attempted dynamite and other outrages, contained in the list laid upon the Table of the House this Session, were not caught in the act; and, if not, why not?

The question is ridiculous. None were caught in the act because there was no one present to see them commit the outrage.

asked the Minister of Mines and Industries whether prospectors in Natal receive similar considerations in regard to discoverers’ rights to those accorded in the Transvaal, and, if not, why not?

The hon. member will find the answer to his question if he will read Parts III. and IV. of the Natal Mines Act, No. 43 of 1899, which govern prospecting and mining on Crown and private lands in Natal.

asked the Minister of Railways arid Harbours whether he will lay upon the Table of this House a return showing: (1) The total amount contributed by Railway and Harbour servants in the Transvaal, Orange Free State, Natal, and Cape of Good Hope to the South African Railways and Harbours Sick Fund for the four months ended February 28, 1914; and (2) for the same period in each Province (a) the total amount contributed by the Government to this fund; (b) the total expenditure in fees of doctors, dispensers, assistants, etc.; (c) the total cost of medicines, appliances, etc.; (d) the total cost of clerical and committee work in connection with the administration of this fund; (e) the total working expenses; and (f) the balance or deficit?

A return embodying the information asked for will be laid upon the Table as soon as the February accounts are completed.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether he will consider the advisability of issuing concession tickets to trade apprentices who live in the suburbs and who, in many instances, are not in receipt of any wages during the first year of apprenticeship.

The answer to this question is in the negative.

asked the Minister of Finance whether he has had inquiries made as to the possibility of re-opening the Mint at Pretoria, and whether he can give the House any information as to the steps which the Government intend to take to re-open the same in accordance with the general desire of the public?

on behalf of the Minister of Finance: I would refer the hon. member to the reply which I returned in this House to a somewhat similar question put by him on February 25 last year. Nothing has transpired since then to justify a modification of that reply.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether the Government have decided as to the dimensions of the graving dock in Durban Harbour, and when it is contemplated that the work in connection with the same will be completed?

The dimensions of the proposed graving dock at Durban have been decided upon. Funds for the construction of this dock have not yet been voted by Parliament, but a sum of £4,000 was authorised last year in the Capital and Betterment Estimates for the purpose of carrying out preparatory surveys and soundings; and this work is now in progress.

asked the Minister of the Interior: (1) Whether official reports of evidence given before Commissions arc verbatim; (2) whether this was stipulated in the case of the Indian Inquiry Commission; (5) by whom the reporting work was done; (4) whether the conditions of the contract were fulfilled in regard to delivery of transcripts the following morning; (5) whether the secretary of the Natal Agricultural Union complained he had been put to the expense and inconvenience of buying an outside verbatim report in order to make sense of the official report; and (6) whether the evidence of the Commission will be printed?

on behalf of the Minister of Finance, said: (1) The decision whether reports shall be verbatim or merely summaries rests with Commissions. (2) Verbatim reports were stipulated for in the case of this Commission. (5) Mr. Samuel Rapp. (4) The Commission have not made any representations to the contrary. (5) If so, the Commissioners have not thought fit to communicate his complaint to the Government. (6) The Commissioners have not suggested to the Government that the evidence should be printed. Typed transcripts will, of course, be available in any circumstances.

had given notice to ask the Minister of Defence whether he will make enquiry into the circumstances of the trial and conviction of one Jacob Green on the 17th and 19th January, 1914, for disobeying police order’s, with the view of discovering the truth or otherwise of the allegation that he was ordered to drive his cab through a meeting of women on Benoni Market Square, and whether he will report the result of such enquiry to the House?

The question dropped.

asked the Minister of Education: (1) Whether there are at the present time any men students at the Huguenot College, Wellington; if so, (2), whether his attention has been called to the fact that this is contrary to section 1 of Act No. 28 of 1907 (Cape); and (3) what action he proposes to take in this connection?

The reply to (1) and (2) is in the affirmative. As regards part (3) of the question, it is contemplated under the Higher Education Further Provision Bill to suspend the operation of the proviso to section 1 of Act 28 of 1907 (Cape) for a period of five years. In the meantime it is not intended to enforce the restriction.

asked the Prime Minister whether he will lay on the Table copies of all agreements entered into by the Government and representatives of the strikers, and of all demands made upon the Government by representatives of the strikers, in connection with the disturbances which occurred on the Witwatersrand in June and July, 1913?

laid upon the Table copies of the agreements referred to.

asked the Minister of Defence whether he will cause inquiry to be made into the circumstances surrounding the shooting of two natives on the Van Ryn property by the burghers during the late industrial trouble on the Rand?

I only have information as to the shooting of one native on the Van Ryn property. The papers were sent to the Attorney-General of the Transvaal, and an inquiry has been held.

asked the Minister of Defence: (1) Whether he is aware that over 300 men were rounded up in Benoni and taken to Boksburg Gaol, because they were strikers; (2) whether he is aware that many of these men were struck with sjamboks, butts of rifles, and otherwise ill-used, despite their absolute obedience to orders; and (3) why were these men imprisoned?

(1) and (2) I am aware that a number of persons were arrested at Benoni under Martial Law, but am not aware of the other details mentioned, and doubt the correctness of the allegations of violence. (3) They were imprisoned because, in the opinion of officers on the spot, such a course was necessary for the preservation of peace and order.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) What is the rate per ton per mile for agricultural products on the Cape Town—Simon’s Town line and the Springs—Witbank line; and (2) what are the passenger fares on these lines respectively?

(1) The same rate applies for similar distances. The rates per ton per mile are as follows: 10 Miles, grain, flour, forage, lucerne, etc., 1.8d., fruit and vegetables, 2d.; 20 miles, 1.45d. and 2d.; 40 miles, l.08d. and 1.5d.; 60 miles, 0.95d and 1.33d.; and lower rates for longer distances. (2) There is no comparison between the two lines. The one is a suburban or essentially a passenger line, while on the other the passenger traffic is comparatively light. The fares on the Cape Town—Simon’s Town line are computed on the basis of suburban fares, while those on the Witbank—Brakpan line, to which the hon. member is understood to refer, are compiled on the ordinary mileage scale applicable generally throughout the Union, except in the neighbourhood of Johannesburg, Pretoria, Pietermaritzburg and all port towns, where suburban fares apply. A comparison of the fares on the Cape Town—Simon’s Town line with the ordinary mileage scale which applies throughout the Union, except in suburban areas, is as follows:

asked the Minister of Defence: (1) Whether, in view of the fact that through the prevalence of horse sickness in the districts of Uniondale, Humansdorp, and Uitenhage, many people have lost their horses, he will postpone the camp of the men at Uitenhage until the sickness has disappeared; (2) whether, if he cannot postpone the camp, he will,;n the event of horses dying in the camp from horse sickness, pay out the full value of such horses to the men; and (3) whether he will provide the indigent members of the force with the necessary equipment of clothing, as required by regulation, for their use in camp?

on behalf of the Minister of Defence, replied: (1) The training camp in question does not begin till the 1st May, and there are good grounds for believing that the quite unusual and unexpected outbreak of horse sickness in the districts mentioned will be over by that date. It is not practicable now to postpone the camp. (2) If a horse dies from horse sickness contracted at or while proceeding to or returning from the camp, and there has been no want of care or reasonable precaution, the full registered value of the horse, up to a maximum of £22 10s., is paid out. (3) The field-service outfit issued at public expense to citizens comprises all essentials of personal clothing, including a shirt, but there are sundry small personal necessaries, such as towels, hair brushes, socks, and so forth, which citizens are advised to bring with them. These are not supplied at Government expense under any circumstances.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether his attention has been drawn to the increased passenger and goods traffic between Philippolis and Philippolis-road Station and to the inconvenience caused to old people, women and invalids, by the want of a platform; and whether he will take the necessary steps to remedy this state of affairs?

My attention has been drawn to the slight increase in traffic between Philippolis and Philippolis-road Station, but the traffic even now is not such as to justify the expenditure involved in providing a platform. There are many stations of greater importance than Philippolis-road where there are no platforms and where passengers are placed at the additional disadvantage of having to board and alight from trains during the night. The type of coach in use on the Fauresmith line is provided with low steps similar to the main line saloons, thus enabling passengers to entrain and detrain without inconvenience at stations where there are no platforms.

asked the Minister of Mines and Industries whether the Government will shortly appoint a Commission to consider and report upon the question generally as to the best plans to be adopted to develop and extend the mining industry in the Union, and as to what legislation is desirable, so as to encourage and induce the introduction of fresh capital into the Union for the development of mineral areas?

answered in the negative.

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) Whether he is aware that the prison at Reitz is situated in the centre of the village, near to the Dutch Reformed Church, and surrounded by private dwellings, and is enclosed by means of a wire fence only and (2) whether he intends to remove the prison to a site offered by the Municipal Council of Reitz; and if not, (3) whether he will without delay have a high wall erected round the prison, as was promised more than a year ago?

(1) Yes. (2) No. (3) No, and no such promise is known of.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether he is aware that great dissatisfaction exists in the other Provinces, especially the Transvaal, owing to the impression that the railway rates both for passengers and for goods are much higher than in the Cape Province; (2) whether there is any ground for such an impression; and, if so (3) whether he will take the necessary steps to remedy that undesirable state of affairs?

Generally speaking, passenger fares and goods rates are the same throughout the Union. In the Cape and Natal Provinces prior to Union a limited number of articles of South African manufacture was carried at preferential rates which were not in force in the Transvaal and Orange Free State Provinces. The number of articles enjoying preference has, since Union, been considerably curtailed, but preferential rates in certain special cases have been allowed to continue to operate until a favourable opportunity should arise for cancelling them. The Administration is opposed to preferential railway tariffs, and holds the view that where protection is necessary it should be afforded through the Customs; but it was found that to abolish preference in all cases without any compensating modification of the Customs tariff would entail considerable hardship on the interests concerned. Certain rates for goods imported via Lourenco Marques to the Transvaal are also somewhat higher per ton per mile than the rates on similar imports via Durban and Cape ports, this being necessary in order to maintain the percentage distribution of sea-borne traffic for which the Mozambique Convention provides. Passenger fares are the same in all parts of the Union, except in the suburban areas of the larger towns, e.g., Johannesburg, Pretoria, Pietermaritzburg, and coast towns.

to ask the Minister of Agriculture: (1) Whether he is aware that even sheep and goats are dying in large numbers of gailamziekte; (2) whether he is aware that Dr. Mathias, of Schweizer-Reneke, has, with the assistance of Messrs. Bezuidenhout and Price, for several years past successfully applied his process of blood-injection to cattle, and whether representations have been made to his department to have the said process examined; and if so, with what result; and if not, why not; (3) whether it is a fact that Dr. Theiler has succeeded in developing the disease in imported cattle by means of ticks, and consequently is of opinion that the disease is caused by ticks, the poison of which, however, is harmless as long as the cattle are growing and grazing in the veld; and that Dr. Theiler is now desirous of comparing the disease with the Suerra disease in India; and (4) what proof has the Government in favour or otherwise of the efficacy of dipping cattle against this disease?

on behalf of the Minister of Agriculture, replied: (1) It has not been brought to my notice that sheep and goats are dying in large numbers of gal-lamziekte. There have been slight outbreaks of sickness among sheep and goats, but inquiry has failed to verify the diagnosis of gal-lamziekte. (2) I have no information regarding the success or otherwise of the blood injection method of treatment by Dr. Mathias beyond what has appeared in the Press. This, together with numbers of similar alleged cures and remedies were brought and continue to be brought to my notice. Owing, however, to the peculiar nature of the disease and to no means being known of communicating it, the testing of so-called remedies and preventives is very tedious and expensive, and often inconclusive, and it has been decided not to test any remedies or preventives unless there are good grounds for believing they will prove successful. To systematically test the whole of the remedies and preventives brought forward would monopolise the whole of the time of the veterinary staff. (3) The Director of Veterinary Research has not succeeded in transmitting the disease by means of ticks, as gallamziekte is not tick-borne. Gal-lamziekte cannot be compared with the Surra disease of India, which is a trypanosome disease, and is similar to the tse-tse fly disease of South Africa.

asked the Minister of Defence: Whether, seeing the present system of procuring ammunition for the use of rifle clubs causes waste of time and is most inconvenient, he is prepared to supply each commandant with sufficient ammunition for the rifle clubs in his division?

on behalf of the Minister of Defence, replied: Endeavours are now being made to make arrangements to issue ammunition through commandants, and the Council of Defence is now being asked to consider certain proposed regulations dealing with the point.

asked the Minister of Defence: On what date the official permits for persons to be allowed out at night in Johannesburg were printed?

on behalf of the Minister of Defence, replied: I have no exact information on the point, but probably on some date immediately prior to the proclamation of Martial Law when preliminary arrangements were made to proclaim Martial Law and bring it into immediate operation as soon as that course became necessary.

asked the Minister of Defence: Whether, in view of the fact that the public is dissatisfied about the uniforms for the Volunteers being of khaki, he does not consider it necessary to change this uniform so as to satisfy the public?

on behalf of the Minister of Defence, replied: The colour of the uniform adopted for the Active Citizen Force is not khaki, but drab. The uniform differs very materially both in colour and design from the khaki uniform worn in the late war by the British troops. The dissatisfaction is based very largely on a misunderstanding. The Government is anxious to avoid offending the reasonable susceptibilities of any section of the community on a point like this, and is prepared to consider any practical and economical way of removing any bona fide objections which can be sustained on reasonable grounds. The Commandant-General, personally, is now making investigations into the matter and will give it his careful attention.

asked the Minister of Justice whether his attention has been directed to the report of the speeches recently made by one Kendall in Australia; and if so, whether, in view of the admission by that gentleman of the commission of certain crimes on the Witwatersrand by himself, it is the Minister’s intention to take steps for his extra-edition?

My attention has been drawn to the report of the speeches of Mr. G. H. Kendall in Australia. By section 130 of the South Africa Act, all powers, authorities and functions relating to prosecution of crimes and offences are vested in the Attorneys-General of the Provinces, and I have accordingly directed the attention of the Attorney-General, Transvaal, to the matter.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether any allowance is being made, or will be made, to season ticket-holders in the Transvaal who, were prevented from using their tickets during the strike period?

The reply to this question is in the affirmative.

asked the Minister of Lands: (1) How much ground was bought for land settlement purposes in the Orange Free State under Act No. 12 of 1912, and where the same is situated; (2) how much ground is available in the Orange Free State in terms of the said Act; (3) how many people were under the said Act assisted to buy ground in the Orange Free State, and in which districts is the ground situated; (4) how much ground was allotted for land settlement purposes in the Orange Free State under Chapter III. of the said Act No. 12 of 1912, and to how many persons; and (5) how many holdings were allotted in the Orange Free State under Chapter III. of the said Act?

(1) and (3) I would refer the hon. member to the report, with schedules, of land purchased under sections 10 and 11 of the Land Settlement Act. 1912, during the year 1913, laid on the Table of this House on the 16th ultimo, which schedules give the information desired by the hon. member. No land was purchased during the year 1912. (2) No Crown lands are at present available under Act No. 12 of 1912 in the Orange Free State, the farms owned by Government being at present held on lease. Particulars of certain of the farms in question have been submitted to the Land Board, Orange Free State, for report as to whether they are suitable for disposal in terms of Act No. 12 of 1912; and such farms as may be recommended by the Board for disposal will be dealt with in terms of the Act, as soon as the leases expire or earlier if the lessees agree to surrender their present leases. (4) and (5) No Crown land has been allotted in the Orange Free State under chapter 111 of Act No. 12 of 1912

asked the Minister of Lands what irrigation works have been undertaken by the Government in the Orange Free State, and where are these situated?

Since Union no new Government irrigation works have been undertaken in the Free State. A very large amount of survey work has been done in that Province during the last three years, which has brought to light a number of very promising irrigation schemes. It is, however, not possible to say at present to what extent these schemes will be undertaken by Irrigation Boards under the Irrigation Act, with or without Government as active participators or entirely by the Government. It is anticipated that a number of good schemes will come to maturity during the present year.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) What provision has been made to ensure that Europeans, natives and coloured people may travel in separate railway carriages; (2) the date when this provision was made; and (3) what instructions have been given to conductors and guards to see that these provisions are carried out?

(1) Arrangements were made for 71 coaches to be suitably converted or specially constructed to provide separate accommodation for coloured passengers, and about 50 of these vehicles have been completed and are being utilised on the more important services. It is obviously impossible to set aside at once a sufficiency of coaches to give separate accommodation for all coloured passengers throughout the Union, but the policy which has been embarked upon will be gradually extended, preference being given to sections of line on which segregation is most urgently required. (2) The Administration has all along endeavoured to keep European and coloured passengers separate, but it was not until 1912 that arrangements were made for the more effective separation rendered possible by the provision of special carriages or portions thereof for the exclusive use of coloured passengers. (3) The instructions to the staff for dealing with coloured and native passengers are somewhat lengthy, but extracts from the more important provisions are subjoined: The following regulations are in force in the Transvaal and Orange Free State: “Coloured persons, whether South African or Asiatic, are ordinarily only to be allowed to travel in third-class or native carriages or compartments. Coloured persons of the better class (whether male or female) who, from their demeanour or attire, are evidently fitted to be allowed to travel in a first or second-class compartment if they so desire, and are prepared to pay the ordinary fare for such class of carriage, are permitted to do so, but only in the compartment reserved for their accommodation. This instruction also applies in the Natal Province. On every train having carriages thereon with more than two first-class and/ or more than two second-class compartments, one first-class and/or one second-class compartment should, if practicable or required, be labelled Reserved.’ The compartments so marked must be those which will best separate white and coloured passengers, as far as circumstances will allow. Coloured persons have the prior right to accommodation in the compartments reserved for them. Coloured persons who give reasonable notice of their intention to travel by long-distance trains are entitled to have their seats reserved, in the same manner as white passengers, in the first or second-class compartments reserved for their use on trains by which they are allowed to travel.” The general instructions are that the best possible arrangements that the circumstances will permit must in all cases be made for separating white and coloured passengers. The staff are reminded from time to time of the importance of strict adherence to instructions in this respect, and the necessity for exercising great care and tact in dealing with coloured passengers, so as to obviate inconvenience and unpleasantness on all sides, is constantly being emphasised.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether any construction works have been undertaken in the Orange Free State in connection with the four lines of railway sanctioned by Parliament during last session; how many miles of earthworks have been finished, and how many miles of rails laid on each of these four sections?

The position in connection with the four lines of railway in the Orange Free State which were sanctioned by Parliament last session is as follows:

1. (1) Fauresmith-Koffyfontein.—This line has been surveyed and staked out, and construction depots established. Actual construction work will be pushed forward as soon as the necessary formalities in regard to land have been completed, in terms of section 1, sub-section 1, of Act 23 of 1913. About one mile of earthworks has been completed, but no rails have been laid.
2. (2) Kroonstad-Vierfontein and Vierfontein-Bothaville.—These lines have been surveyed and staked out, and actual construction work will be commenced as soon as the necessary land has been acquired. Work in connection with establishment of construction depots is in progress.
3. (3) Aliwal North-Zastron.—The detailed survey has been completed, and two engineers have been placed in charge of the work of staking out, one from Aliwal North and the other from Rouxville to Zastron. As soon as the line has been staked out and a settlement arrived at in regard to the expropriation of land, in terms of section 1, sub-section 1, of Act 23 of 1913, actual construction work will be commenced. In deference to local opinion a considerable number of routes were surveyed in detail. The mileage actually surveyed aggregates approximately 110 miles, notwithstanding that the estimated length of the line is only about 52 miles. This work necessarily takes time.

asked the Minister of the Interior how many applications for naturalisation have been received, how many have been refused, and how many have been granted by the Government from the date of Union up to 31st December. 1913?

Number of applications received, 4,237; refused, 246; granted, 3,991.

asked the Prime Minister if his attention had been called to the report of a meeting held at the Wanderers, Johannesburg, last night, when a Mr. Duff was reported to have said that on polling day they had to see that no man was admitted to the polling booths who would vote against the Labour candidates. Further, what steps did the Prime Minister propose to take to see that everybody who had the right to vote had an opportunity of exercising the franchise?

Martial Law. (Labour laughter.)

said his attention had been directed to the speech in question and he had referred the matter to the Minister of Justice. The Government was considering what should be done, and at the present moment he could not say more, except that he was very much astonished to read the report and that people who called themselves democrats should try to prevent others from voting. (Cheers.)

asked if it were a fact that official censorship was being exercised at Durban and that the Natal Federation of Trade Unions had, been prohibited from publishing a pamphlet which had reference to the Peace Preservation Act?

I have no information on the subject.

moved that the petition from Frances M. Willmott, Hessie Gibbon, and Nora L. Eastwood, teachers in Natal, praying that their names be placed upon the register prescribed by Act No. 31 of 1910 (Natal), presented to this House on June 3, 1913, be laid upon the Table, and, if agreed to, that it be referred to the Select Committee on Pensions, Grants and Gratuities.

The motion was agreed to.

moved: That in the opinion of this House the Government should take into consideration the advisability of having detailed surveys made along the Orange River to ascertain the various places where it is possible to bring the water on to the land, the extent of the irrigable area, and the cost of such irrigation works. The hon. member said the Minister of Lands was not to be blamed for the delay in the work, as he had neither the necessary money nor the staff available. Still, he ought to place a sum on the Estimates for the current year, so that the work could be carried out. Water was very necessary for the land. They were digging a good many boreholes and making them deeper, with the result that the surface of the earth was getting dried up. It was necessary, therefore, to take steps to preserve the flood water which was at present running to waste into the sea. They had the finest ground along the Orange River in the world, but at present it was not worth £1 per morgen. If they constructed irrigation works along its banks, the districts affected would become the granary of South Africa, and they would be able to export grain. They could also plant lucerne. They should remember how valuable a morgen of land would be for the merino sheep farmer if it were put under lucerne and the ground were irrigated. One morgen of ground would then be sufficient for the grazing of 30 merinos. If that were done generally along the Orange River, what an immense change it would bring about in the country. He calculated that every morgen under lucerne could produce £318 5s., with costs at £238, so that there would be a profit of £80. They could also carry on dairy farming there. How much he asked, were they now spending on imported cheese, butter and milk? A man who bought ten morgen for £2,000 would be able to graze fifty cows on the land, and make a good profit out of it. Those cows might give 205,000 bottles of milk per year, and even at a penny a bottle there would be a considerable profit. There was therefore a great advantage to be expected from the construction of irrigation works. The actual performance of that work should perhaps be left to private persons, and capital would be necessary for it. Any person who was willing to invest his capital in such a scheme should foe able to obtain the necessary information from the Irrigation Department, and the Minister ought to have the needful surveys made in readiness. It was in the real interests of the country that steps should be taken for the purpose of surveying the proposed works along the Orange River, and if the Minister had the necessary funds at his disposal, the head of the Irrigation Department would no doubt set to work on it immediately. He hoped therefore that the proposal would be agreed to.

supported the motion, as he considered the work was of great importance. There was a great deal of fruitful ground along the Orange River, and irrigation was the only thing necessary to make the district flourish. It was years ago that the first work in that neighbourhood had been commenced. When they asked for money for one of the furrows from Kakamas, they were told that the required sum was too large. Hon. members should go and see what was being done at Kakamas. Many of the people there were waiting for the Government to help them to get the water. Land under water along the Orange River was worth a good deal, and it was a pity that at present so much of it was neglected. It would be a good thing if the Ministers would pay a visit to that district. He was grateful to the mover for introducing the motion, which he hoped the House would accept.

moved to insert the words “and Vaal River” after the words “Orange River.” He thought that if surveys were made along those two great rivers the object of the mover would be attained. He reminded the House that the old Free State Government had resolved to make a canal near Hoopstad in order to lead the water through the district of Boshof, but the war had put an end to the proposal. He denied the statement that in his district thirty morgen were needed to maintain one sheep. The Prime Minister himself would be able to give evidence that the ground there was very fruitful and that a railway there was most necessary. The speaker’s district was at least as fruitful as that of the hon. member for Hope Town, but it was necessary that the water from the Vaal River should be used and not allowed to run to waste into the sea. It was the duty of the Government to help the people. They could carry the water from the Vaal River many miles on to the land, and after heavy rains the water could be conserved in the great pans there. By so doing they would help to reinforce the subterranean streams. If that were not done he ventured to predict that in the near future they would have to face serious difficulties. It had been suggested that surveys should be made along all the rivers which were suitable to serve in irrigation schemes, but that would cost too much and they would be getting too much hay on their forks, and so render vain the object of the mover of the motion. The speaker concluded by pointing out that the rainfall during recent years had considerably diminished.

said he welcomed this debate on a question that would realise practical results after the long debates on the Indemnity Bill and the Railway Relief Bill. For some time the Irrigation Department had been busy with surveys at the request of Irrigation and River Boards, but the initiative had always been on the part of the people, and many good results had been attained as the result of the Bill of 1912. It was only two years since the Bill came into operation, and if hon. members would go into some of the districts they would be surprised to see the enormous developments that had taken place. Although they had in the Director of Irrigation an officer of sterling worth who had done his utmost to further the work, his scope was very limited, and he hoped the Minister would place such a sum on the Estimates as to enable him to extend the work. He pointed out some of the delays with regard to private schemes had been unavoidable owing to the fact that the department was so busy. The staff was not sufficient, and he thought that this matter should be remedied with as little delay as possible. Another point was that a number of schemes could not be pushed forward owing to the fact that there were very few qualified engineers able to do the work. He thought these engineers should be encouraged to come out to South Africa because he was certain that the Minister would be able to find them some security of occupation for a certain time at any rate. He remembered going to Upington in 1895 and seeing the old furrow which was constructed by the Rev. Mr. Schroeder, and it stood there to-day almost as a living monument to the great possibilities along the Orange River. He went on to comment on the fertility of the soil in the neighbourhood, and said that up to the present only the northern bank had been tapped, whereas the southern bank had so far been undeveloped. It was not only in that vicinity that there were immense possibilities, but he thought the water should be taken out of the Orange River right down to the sea, and the result would be that they would have a white population there in a very short space of time of from a quarter to half a million. The unfortunate point was that any work that was undertaken along the Orange River to be successful had to be on a very large scale, and private enterprise was not in a position to carry out such large works.

Therefore, it was necessary that the Department of Irrigation should make surveys and determine actual costs. If that were done the department would be able to supply interested people with reliable information. Nobody wanted the department to further wild cat schemes, but he did not think that any scheme which brought capital into this country for the purpose of taking water out of their big rivers with the idea of developing the land could be called a wild-cat scheme. He went on to point out what had happened along the Breede River. He remembered the time when the land on the banks of that river was as undeveloped as the land along the Orange River to-day. The possibilities of the land had been realised, and private enterprise had done a tremendous amount of good work. If particulars of some of the large schemes that were required along the Orange River were forthcoming he felt sure they would soon be taken up. Capital would be brought into the country if only reliable information could be obtained, and nobody could supply better information than the Department of Irrigation. He commented on the fact that it was men with pluck who had brought the ostrich industry to its present prosperous condition. Somebody had said that there was more wealth in the first six inches of the soil of South Africa than in all the mines, and he agreed with that statement, and if they developed that six inches the future of South Africa would be very prosperous. He wished the hon. member for Boshof had extended his motion, because there were other big rivers besides the Orange River where work of this character was necessary. He counselled the Government to set about the work in a systematic fashion and follow up all these big rivers and lay annual returns of work done on the Table. He thought it would be time and money well spent. There was the case of the Caledon River in the O.F.S., and he was told that the ground there was as rich as any in the country. There was an inexhaustible amount of water that could be utilised if schemes were only carried out. There were so many furrows out of the Buffels River that practically all the water was taken out of it and put on to the land, so that only the flood water went into the sea. Government should make a survey of all the irrigation schemes. People were willing to carry out irrigation schemes, but they wanted a little encouragement and to know after they had spent their money on these projects that there would be a possible chance of their getting their money back. He moved as an amendment to omit the words “along the Orange River” and to substitute “all the large rivers in the Union.” He did not mean that this should be done at once, but when it was done the possibilities should be made, public. If the Minister would do that during his term of office he would be doing a work which would never be forgotten by the people of South Africa. (Hear, hear.)

said these surveys would cost money, and he would like to know what the State would get in return. If the benefit of the increased value of the land was to go to the State the expenditure would be justifiable, but the principal object in nine cases out of ten was to increase the value of the land belonging to private owners. He did not wish to deny the State giving assistance to landowners, but in return at least a part of the increased value of the land should accrue to the State. In this House there was a very selfish feeling, and when hon. members on the cross-benches asked the farming members to contribute to the carrying-out of beneficial schemes to the workers at the cost of the State hon. members turned the cold shoulder on them. It would be just as reasonable for the hon. member for Germiston and others who owned claims on the Rand to ask the State to prove these claims by putting down boreholes as it was for farmers to ask for Government assistance. The ostrich industry was very valuable to the gentlemen engaged in it, but the State derived no benefit from it. (Labour cheers.) If the land were used for ordinary agricultural purposes it would employ far more men than it did at present. While hon. members on the cross-benches were against public money being used for the benefit of private property owners, they were prepared to support genuine schemes of development in which the general public would obtain something in return for the public money expended on them.

said that possibly hon. members had blamed him for allowing the debate to continue without replying earlier, but he had thought it was a good thing to allow hon. members a full opportunity to express their views on the subject. The matter under discussion was one of the greatest importance for the future of the Union of South Africa. The members of the Labour Party understood very little about it, and could see no good in working on the farms, and had the poorest opinion of the work of the farmers. The speaker did not wish to wound the feelings of the mover of the motion, but ventured to say he thought the motion superfluous, because what the hon. member was asking for was already being done by the Government. The land surveyors were already busy charting the Groot River past Prieska. The work was a great and a difficult one. In some places the work of survey was hampered by the presence of shrubs, so that it sometimes took a day before they could get a line finished, as it was necessary to cut trees down in order to see the beacons. It was thus a big work, and it would take a good deal of time. It would be a good thing if the staff at the service of the department were increased. The laying-out of big waterworks was a good thing, and the speaker had already pleaded at Potchefstroom for a systematic survey so that the Government would know what had to be done. Moreover, the people themselves would have to learn to see the importance of irrigation, though the question rose whether it would not be best to make small beginnings. They could examine, for example, what had been done on the Gamtoos River in the Cape Province. There was already a good deal of irrigation work completed in the Cape, thanks to the action of the Leader of the Opposition. They had established a River Board on the Gamtoos River, though it had caused some trouble, as the farmers had wrong ideas with regard to the taxes which were levied by a Board such as that. Well, they would get nothing for nothing, and so they had to pay a tax, but they considered that a tax of £1 to £1 5s. per morgen was much too high. But after the first work had been done they came in of themselves, seeing that the morgen of ground for which they were paying a tax of £1 was well worth £100. They were now busy with the fourth work at Gamtoos River of this character. The hon. member for Commissioner-street was entirely wrong in saying that the waterworks at Robertson had been constructed with the State’s money, as it was a co-operative work done by the farmers themselves. They had borrowed money from the Government, which they paid back. The Government had no intention to lend without repayment.

A survey of the Transvaal banks of the Vaal River had already been made and the plans drawn up, and the Free State side would also be done. In fact, all the principal rivers would have to be surveyed and mapped out, so that the Government could always know where the best works could be laid out. A good deal could be done with smaller schemes, especially in districts where the big rivers were not accessible. There was good ground in the district of Fauresmith, the Riet River running through it. The survey of that river had been completed, but the result was not very favourable, as waterworks along that river would be very expensive. There were, however, excellent places there where dams could be constructed, and, as the hon. member for Ladismith had stated, it was for the public to take the initiative. The department would then follow both with advice and other help. But that would not be done gratis. Where there were no rivers they would have to bore for water, and the department intended to bore much more deeply than formerly. He was prepared to accept the motion with the amendments.

said he wished to give the motion his hearty support. Although the Minister had expressed his willingness to accept it, the speaker feared that the great importance of irrigation had not yet been sufficiently recognised, and he thought that more use ought to be made of the subterranean water. There were however, not sufficient bores available at present. In reply to their applications for the use of the bores, private owners were always told that at the moment none were available, and that the applicants would have to wait awhile. He hoped the Minister would order fifty new boring machines at once.

said he agreed largely with the last speaker, especially when he said that the country was slow in making advances. Only that morning he had heard of the case of a farmer who made an application for land and it took two years for him to get a reply. Thirty years ago very valuable correspondence appeared in the Free State papers about that very question of opening up the Orange River for the purpose of irrigation, and he was glad to learn that the Government had started making detailed surveys. Could they hope that the present Government would move a bit more quickly than other Governments had done. Irrigation must precede agriculture. He did not think they would see the large population round about the Orange River which the hon. member talked about. If they took the total of the population, they would find that there had been no increase in the agricultural population of the country, because of the difficulty in obtaining land. He thought it would not be contradicted that to-day large quantities of water were allowed to run to waste simply because of the carelessness of the farmer. That should be stopped. Continuing, he said that he offered one of the best students in the country to the Government that it might send him to the best colleges or schools in the world, and he had been told that this country could give all the education that was required. But the biggest works were not to be found in this country. That boy had been lost to the country because he had gone in for the profession of a doctor.

said he would like to make particular reference to the case of the Orange River. The Minister had told them that the Government favoured small schemes at present, but the point he (Mr. Watermeyer) wished to make was that the Orange River was the largest river they had in South Africa, and its waters were running to waste. The soil was most fertile, and there were great possibilities to be found there. He would like not only a detailed survey, but a very detailed survey to find out how far from that river the water could be brought. (Hear, hear.) They talked a good deal about closer settlement, and they wanted a big scheme like that to set closer settlement going, and he said it was their duty to stop every inch of water going to the sea. The reason why they had to bore so deep for water at the present time was the fact that they had not been paying necessary attention there to, and the result was that it was flowing away to the sea. He thought all the points that were brought forward required the earnest and immediate attention of the Government, for it was a matter that concerned the continuation of South Africa as a country in which any man could live.

said the Minister should devote his attention to the question of catching the storm water.

In the speaker’s district there was the Berg River, which could irrigate a large area of ground. At the present moment the water was running to the sea in waste. The Government might safely invest large sums of money in irrigation works. There was also some useful ground along the Berg River suitable for a labour colony. It was most fruitful and would make a handsome return. Boring for water ought also to be encouraged, as by that means ground that could not at present be used could be converted into very fruitful districts. The speaker said he was well acquainted with the use of water bores, and was pleased to listen to the reply from the Minister.

said there was evidently some misunderstanding with regard to the motion before them. The mover meant that the Government ought to do work along the rivers which it was not possible for private persons to undertake. The Government had lent money to private persons for the purpose of constructing irrigation works, but the money had been lent on the security of the farms. The Government should not merely cause surveys to be made, but should themselves undertake the laying out of big works. In other countries those big works were undertaken by the Government. The smaller works were being done under the terms of the Irrigation Act by private persons. A Large irrigation scheme cost a lot of money, so that a private person could not think of doing it. In such cases the Government should take the first steps.

In the Cape Province they heard nothing about Government bores, and if they wanted to use one they had to go and buy it. Those bores had been purchased by the Government for the purpose of showing the people how to bore for water. Now, however, that they had been obtained, each man had to supply his own. It was not necessary for the Government to buy any others. Private farmers had already constructed a number of waterworks, and many white persons had obtained employment on the farms in consequence.

said the motion concerned a question of the greatest interest. No reference had been made in the course of the debate to the building of dams, to which the Minister ought to devote his attention. In the speaker’s district there was a good opening for their employment.

pointed out that they were not discussing the subject of dams.

continued by saying that there were some remarkable ideas in existence on the subject of the deviation of water. The Labour members were all in opposition to any spending of money for purposes of agriculture, and it would be better for them if they sat still. In the speaker’s opinion the mover had performed a service to the country in bringing the subject before the House. It was a proper subject for discussion. At present they were theorising a great deal too much, and meanwhile the water continued to run into the sea. The Government must take the matter in hand.

also expressed his thanks to the Minister for his favourable answer. They could very well take examples from what was done in Egypt and in Mesopotamia, the Government in the first-mentioned place having already spent £10,000,000 sterling on irrigation works. The rivers there had been dammed up, and general prosperity prevailed as a result. In this country they should also collect the rain in dams, and it would be better to dam it up than to pray for it as they now so often did. In his own district the ground was bare, although it was fruitful, and in recent years they had made a beginning with dams such as he had referred to, especially with the Gamka, but also with other rivers. The rain water was brought over the land, and the results were satisfactory, so that a good deal of water was caught in that way. When they had works of that character it was possible to get heavy crops. Loans for purposes of private works ought to be made more easily obtainable, and they should be granted with a little more speed. It would be very desirable if the Minister would pay a visit to the district, and then something would very speedily be done. He (the speaker) welcomed the motion as well as the amendment which had been moved by the hon. member for Ladismith, and supported both.

said the hon. members on the cross-benches counted it a misfortune that they had not been able to follow the speeches of the hon. members opposite or the hon. members on the Government benches, who had exercised their undoubted right to speak the language they knew best. But the hon. members on the cross-benches were intensely anxious to see the agricultural side of the country developed, as anxious, indeed, as were the hon. members on the Government benches. He frankly admitted that there were two matters the latter knew better than they (the Labour members) did—the work of agriculture and the practice of deportation. (Laughter.) They on the cross-benches were keenly anxious to learn all they could about the agricultural development of the country, and it behoved hon. members opposite not to ridicule them as they had been doing. All he knew of the hon. members’ speeches opposite was, when, by their raised voices and contemptuous gestures, they indicated the cross-benches. (Laughter.) They on the cross-benches were anxious to develop the country—not in the interests of a few, but of the whole population. He gathered that hon. members on the Government side of the House had been “slating ” the hon. member for Commissioner-street (Mr. Sampson), because he dared to ask what the country was going to get out of this. It was not sufficient for the Minister to tell them that these farmers who had obtained money from Government to pay for surveys and irrigation work repaid that money. The State had the right to get something in return for the money it spent on these enterprises. The Government had not a bottomless purse, and it should require in return more than the mere repayment of loan and interest.

pointed out that the motion was for irrigation surveys, and not for actual work.

said the State was asked to put money into these ventures. The direct result of a survey would be that the value of the land would jump up. There should be a tax on the unimproved value of land, which would benefit the whole country, and enable the whole of the land to be developed to such an extent that it would become productive. Hon. members on the cross-benches were anxious to help the poor ostrich farmers, who did so much for the benefit of the country, although they only enclosed ground with barbed wire and employed a few natives to aid in plucking the feathers. If the mover would accept an amendment to add “the taxation of unimproved land values,” he would support the proposal.

hoped the hon. member for Springs knew as much about an honest day’s work as he did about ostriches. (Laughter.) The ostrich farmers, if they embarked on their enterprise by enclosing their lands with barbed wire, would soon be in the Insolvency Court. It only showed, however, how anxious the hon. member was to —

To learn.

No; to instruct, and unfortunately his instructions in many other branches of enterprise are equally as ill-informed as are his instructions on ostrich farming. (Laughter.)

I know more about elections than you do.

I suppose he is a strong supporter of the idea that only people who hold the particular views of his party are to be allowed to vote. (Laughter.) Continuing, Sir Thomas said the hon. member was entirely at sea with regard to the character of the resolution which had been moved by the hon. member for Hope Town, which did not ask that House to vote money, for the purpose of improving the value of the land of any individual farmer; but that a hydrographic survey should be carried out along the course of the Orange River, and to this an amendment had been proposed to substitute “all the rivers of the Union” for “the Orange River.” He (Sir Thomas) did not think a more important work could be carried out by the Government. If ever we were to have small holdings the most valuable place for that purpose would be on land which was under irrigation, and thus be able to support an industrious and thriving population. (Cheers.) To encourage land settlement and small holdings, the three essentials were—suitable land, application of water to the sail, and proximity to markets. (Cheers.)

While it was necessary to dam the water and prevent it flowing to the sea, it was also necessary to provide means of communication to the markets of this country and of the world. Until those districts were opened up it would be impossible to carry out works of anything like a large character. The hon. members for Hope Town and Prieska had referred to him as being rather unmindful of developing the Buchuberg scheme. If the hon. member for Prieska had been fair he would have laid the charge against the Government which went before and which shelved the Buchuberg scheme, where practically the only water that could be obtained was by deep boring. If they were able in the immediate future to open that area they must have a place where they could establish a township, where they could have schools, and from which they would ramify out and develop the pastoral area of that country. That was a matter that would still have to be considered by the country. He believed the Government could undertake no more necessary work in the general interests of the whole country than having a hydrographic survey of the Orange River. Millions of tons of water a year ran to waste to the sea. It would be impossible to approach any problem of irrigation unless they had a detailed hydrographic survey of the river. There was no doubt that along the reaches of the Orange River there were many pockets of soil to which people could be encouraged to go. They would find that the farmers of this country would be only too anxious to embark their own money in those ventures where it was shown to be possible. If the hon. member on the cross-benches would take a journey through the country he would find that such works as irrigation led to a large amount of employment, not only for the agriculturist but also for the skilled mechanic. No more foolish doctrine had ever been advocated than that if they carried out irrigation work they only gave employment to the agriculturist, and he was surprised that a thing of that sort did not commend itself to the hon. gentleman. He did not know what the position of the Minister of Lands would be in connection with the Treasury. Naturally works of that sort cost a ‘certain amount of money. He advised the hon. member on the cross-benches to pay a visit to Cradock district. Owing to the admirable work of the Irrigation Department thousands of acres were being brought under irrigation. The result was that formerly farms that supported one family were now supporting dozens of families. Unless they developed the primary industries of the country they would never be able to build up a big industrial population. He maintained that irrigation here would lead to as much prosperity as it had done in other parts of the world. If they were to take their place as exporters along with the other outlying Dominions of the Empire one of their first steps would be to build up an industry through irrigation. Even if the ostrich industry disappeared—and he did not believe it would—dairying and the fattening of live-stock, etc., would prove more profitable. He hoped the House would accept the motion with the amendment.

said the motion was one of the greatest importance, and it was to be regretted that it was flavoured in any way with provincialism. He supported the amendment which had been moved by the hon. member for Ladismith. The conservation of water was a question which was still somewhat novel in this country, but it was one which deserved to be carried much further. They would then be in a position to provide many poor persons with work. It was the duty of the Government to do something in the matter. In the Pretoria District it would be possible to dam up the Crocodile River, the work for which had already been surveyed, and then thousands of morgen of good ground could be brought under water. It would then be possible to establish on the land those who were suffering from miners’ phthisis. Whilst big works cost a good deal of money, the Government should not take narrow views on the subject, but should be prepared to spend money in the country places. The cost of hiring water bores had been increased since Union from £2 per day to £4 per day.

pointed out that the motion did not deal with water bores.

concluded by saying that the Government should try to create a new spirit in the departments, so that they might succeed in getting something done.

The amendment proposed by Mr. H. C. Becker was agreed to.

The amendment proposed by Mr. Van Niekerk dropped.

The motion, as amended, was agreed to.

submitted a message from the Senate, returning the Indemnity and Undesirables Special Deportation Bill, to, which certain amendments had been made.

said that if there was no objection, he proposed that the amendments should be considered immediately.

objected.

Tomorrow, sir.