Regulations in terms of Public Service and Pensions Act, 1912, (Government Notice No. 166, 29th January, 1914.)

Report on the Petroleum Prospects in the Union of South Africa by E. H. Cunning Craig, B.A., F.G.S.

Copy of certain amendments to the Convention entered into (between the Union of South Africa and India with regard to the exchange of money orders.

asked the Minister of Finance whether the report of the Land Bank had been prepared, and, if so, when it would be laid on the Table.

I will see that the report is laid on the Table at as early a date as possible. I will make inquiries. I don’t know whether the report has been completed yet.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) What progress is being made with the repair of railway bridges in Natal destroyed or damaged by flood during last year; (2) when it is anticipated that the renewals will be completed; and (3) whether, in view of the possibility of the low level temporary bridges being carried away, the Administration will make every endeavour to complete such repairs at the earliest possible date?

1. Progress of work:

(a) Umvoti Bridge.—Half finished. Cause of delay—submerged trees and debris and scarcity of labour.

(b) Amatikulu Bridge.—Two-thirds finished. Cause of delay—scarcity of labour and unforeseen difficulties with foundations.

(c) Umhlatuzi Bridge.—Work started on arrival of first instalment of material about a month ago. Cause of delay—waiting material.

(d) Enseleni Bridge.—Waiting material; but in any case this being a fever district, it is not considered advisable to start work until the end of the present summer season.

2. Probable date of completion:

(a) Umvoti Bridge.—June, 1914.

(b) Amatikulu Bridge.—April, 1914.

(c) Umhlatuzi Bridge.—December, 1914.

(d) Enseleni Bridge.—February, 1915.

(3) Every effort is being made to complete the new bridges as early as possible; but present temporary bridges are regarded by Administration’s technical advisers as being safe against ordinary floods.

asked the Minister of the Interior whether he will introduce a Bill during the present session to consolidate the different laws of the Union in regard to medical practitioners and dentists, so that a person born in South Africa, but duly qualified in England or elsewhere, will be allowed to practise in any part of the Union?

An amendment of the laws such as the hon. member desires is highly necessary, but I am unable to say at present whether it will be possible to introduce such legislation this session.

asked the Prime Minister whether his attention has been drawn to a certain speech which was made by the honourable member for Uitenhage at Bloemfontein last month, in which he accused the Prime Minister of an attempt at bribery; and, if so, whether he is prepared to give the House full information on the matter?

My attention has been drawn to the speech in Bloemfontein by the honourable, member for Uitenhage. I do not remember the terms of the letter which I wrote to the hon. member, as it was private, and no copy was kept by me. I most emphatically deny that any attempt has ever been made by me in any way to bribe the hon. member.

said that he hoped that the House would allow him, under the circumstances, to make a personal explanation in regard to the answer of the Prime Minister.

It is unusual to debate any question; but with the leave of the House, and as this matter affects the hon. member, if there is no objection, the hon. member may make an explanation. Of course, the hon. member will have plenty of opportunity of raising a debate on this matter at any time during the session,

I feel this question very much. It is a matter affecting my personal honour in more ways than one. I received in reply to a letter of mine a letter from the Prime Minister, dated December 28, 1912. At the end of that letter he wrote (the hon. member quoted the actual words, which were in Dutch, and translated them): “I have thought of something nice for you, but it is best to leave everything now until all the trouble is over.” (Hear, hear.) This was immediately after the Ministerial crisis, in which I did not agree with the Prime Minister. I don’t think there is any public man in this House or any other Parliament who could put any other construction on the phrase than—

No debate can be raised; this is only a personal explanation.

I wish to say that I have not answered the Prime Minister. Afterwards I did what I considered was the proper thing to do in regard to the matter. When I found accusations against my personal honour were being circulated, I thought I had the right to make the fact known. I also thought it my duty that the country should know that these things were going forth. I wish only to say one thing further: that is, why I delayed to make this thing public. It is this: in the first place, I mentioned the thing at a public meeting which I addressed at Pearston. No notice was taken of this in the Press, but I mentioned it publicly. I did not mention it in this House, because I did not wish to protect myself behind the privileges of this House. I took legal opinion, and I found that the statement was libellous if not true. The Prime Minister has his remedy.

I move, as an unopposed motion, that the letter be laid on the table. (Hear, hear.)

said that the hon. member, having referred to private letters, and having made use of them publicly, he thought that the rule was that they ought to be laid on the Table.

The hon. member laid the letter he had referred to on the Table.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether the Administration had decided to pay all daily paid men weekly or under the system of “subs ” in force in certain cases; and (2) if not, whether the Government will not in the interests of the “daily paid ” staff favourably consider so doing ?

(1) The Administration has not decided to pay all daily-paid men weekly, but certain low-rated men, who so desire, are afforded an opportunity of drawing weekly “subs. ” Comparatively few men, however, take advantage of this system of payment. (2) The question has already been considered on more than one occasion by the Administration, and it is not proposed to depart from the present practice. The Grievances Commission dealt with this matter, but made no recommendation. The Commission reported that it was not satisfied that the request for weekly payment was a general one.

asked, the Minister of Mines whether, in view of the disquieting evidence given by the Chamber of Mines before the Economic Commission, and recently published in London, he can inform the House what the real truth is with regard to the probable life of the gold industry on the Witwatersrand ?

The statement of the Chamber of Mines in respect of the life and probable tonnage of ore to be expected from existing mines is based on data furnished by the individual mines to the Mines Department for the purposes of the Mining Taxation Act. Experience has shown that the life of a mine is rather longer than is estimated, and it therefore may be reasonably expected that the existing mines will yield a somewhat larger tonnage than is indicated in the statement of the Chamber. With regard to the extensive areas, containing the Main Reef series which are still untouched, the Chamber’s statement indicates the difficulty of forecasting their probable value, but it would not be surprising to find these mines yielding a tonnage equal to that to be expected from existing mines. The Chamber’s estimate that the yield from existing mines will fall to one-half in sixteen years may be looked upon as substantially correct, if present working costs remain unaltered, but it may reasonably be expected that new producers will arise by which the balance will at least in part be restored, while any reduction in working costs which may be achieved during the next few years will be reflected in the larger tonnage of lower grade ore which will be rendered available to profitable mining. Attention is directed to the fact that estimates of this nature are framed on uncertain data and varying conditions, that it is impossible to forecast to what extent these data and conditions will have varied even in ten years, and that therefore it is not prudent to attach undue importance to estimates which attempt to extend our vision so far into the future.

asked whether it was a fact that the shorter the period of life of the mines was than was calculated, the less would be the profits tax.

replied that that was rather an inference than a question, and he was not prepared to answer that (Hear, hear.)

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) Whether he is aware that a new Insolvency Act for the whole Union is urgently required, and has been repeatedly promised by the Government; and (2) whether he will undertake to introduce such a measure this session ?

• (1) I am aware that a consolidated Insolvency Act for the whole Union has been repeatedly promised by the Government.
• (2) An Insolvency Bill for the whole Union was drafted almost three years ago, and has within the last few months been carefully revised, with a view to its introduction during the present session. I regret that I am unable at the present juncture to say whether it will be possible for me to introduce the measure this session, as this will depend on the length of time that the attention of the House is claimed by matters arising out of the recent industrial trouble. (Hear, hear.)

asked whether the Bill could not be published in its draft form?

That does not arise out of the question.

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) What is the normal strength of the police force on the borders of Swaziland; (8) where these are posted; and (3) how many of these were removed and sent down to Natal at the time of the Indian strike?

The normal strength of the police controlled by the Department of Justice on the Swaziland Border, in the districts of Ermelo and Piet Retief, is as follows: At Hartebeestkop, one corporal and four constables; at Amsterdam, one corporal and six constables; at Derby, six constables; at Welkom, ten constables: patrolling the Border, five special constables. This gives a total of 33 constables, of whom one was withdrawn for Indian strike duty. Besides these, there are the police controlled by the Department of Defence in the district of Barberton. Within 30 miles of the Border in that district there are the police posts of Barberton, Eureka City, Louws Creek, Squamans, and Sterkspruit. At Barberton the normal strength is 27, at Eureka City 3, at Louws Creek 4, at Squamans 4, and at Sterkspruit 4. This gives a total strength of 42; of these, 13 were withdrawn for Indian strike duty.

asked the Minister of Defence: (1)Whether he is aware that one T. Botha, whilst on commando in the neighbourhood of Kaalfontein Station with wagon and forage, after being called out in connection with the Witwatersrand disturbances, lost both his wagon and forage owing to their being struck by lightning, and, if so, whether the Government is prepared to compensate the said Botha without delay, as well as other burghers who sustained losses in a similar way; and (2) whether all burghers who were called out have been fully paid their expenses, and, if not, whether he intends to give instructions forthwith that the same shall be paid to them ?

(1) I have no knowledge of this case, nor has any statement or claim regarding it been received at Defence Headquarters. All such claims received are being dealt with as rapidly as possible in a temporary office specially created for this purpose. (2) Members of Defence Force Commandoes called out for service under section 79 of the South Africa Defence Act, 1912, will receive the same rate of pay and allowances as are given to members of the Active Citizen Force. The allowances for rations (1s. 6d. a day, and forage 1s. 6d. a day) will be subject to deduction for all supplies commandeered, and if the sums payable for such commandeered supplies exceed the aggregate of those allowances for each commando, the excess will be recovered by a pro rata deduction from pay. Any clothing supplied, or cash advances paid to individual members, or rations issued to their families will be deducted from their pay. Transport which was commandeered, or hired will be paid for direct from public funds.

asked the Minister of the Interior: (1) How many Town Councils there are in the Union of South Africa; (2) how many women are members of such Councils; (3) how many School Boards there are in the Union; and (4) how many women are members of such Boards?

There are (1) 186 Town Councils in the Union of South Africa; (2) no women are members of such Councils; (3) 194 School Boards, in the Union; (4) 8 women are members of such Boards.

asked the Prime Minister if Mr. Thys Grobler has been given any appointment in connection with the Swazi border, and, if so, what are his instructions and his emoluments?

No such appointment has, to my knowledge, been given to Mr. Thys Grobler.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs: Whether, having regard to the judgment in the recent case of Lipschitz v. The Postmaster-General, he proposes to amend the Post Office Act so as to protect depositors in the Post Office Savings Bank from loss through payments to wrong persons by officials of the Bank?

The reply is in the negative. The Post Office Savings Bank is in a different position to an ordinary commercial bank. It is not worked for profit. Practically it grants interest on current accounts which no commercial bank does. It permits depositors to operate on their deposits at any Post Office in the Union transacting Savings Bank business no matter at what Union Post Office their Savings Bank accounts were originally opened, a convenience which is very largely taken advantage of by patrons of the Bank. To insist upon personal identification of depositors by persons known to the paying officer would be impracticable and vexatious. Savings Bank legislation in the United Kingdom, India, Australia, Canada, etc., is similar to that in South Africa. In this country the public are protected against fraud on the part of officials of the Department, and this is the full extent of liability which can be accepted by the Government. It is for depositors to securely safeguard their deposit books, without which no operations can be effected on their accounts. Any weakening of this obligation would expose the Government to indefinite loss. It may be added that similar legislation to that now existing was in force in the several Provinces prior to Union.

asked the Minister of the Interior: (1) What has been the cost to the country up to date of (a) the Sunday Observance Commission, and (b) the Tuberculosis Commission; and (2) when will the Tuberculosis Commission present its final report, if it has not already done so?

(1) The expenditure on the two Commissions up to 31st January, 1914, was as follows: Tuberculosis Commission, £9,403; Sunday Observance Commission, £3,612. (2) The Chairman of the Tuberculosis Commission has stated that he hopes to be able to submit the Commission’s report on the first part of its term of reference about the end of the present month. Thereafter the Government propose to dissolve the Commission.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he is aware that, owing to the ’unrestricted importation of tobacco from Rhodesia into the Union, the market for this product has not only been totally lost for the farmers, particularly in the Transvaal, but also that they have thereby sustained considerable loss, after having incurred great expense in the establishment of co-operative societies and buildings in connection therewith, and, if so, whether he intends to take early steps for making such arrangements that the said market will be restored?

'The Government is not aware that the position is as asserted by the hon. member, but if he will submit the data upon which he has framed his statement, the matter will be inquired into. I may say, however, that the hon. member’s assertion is not borne out by the statistics of the Customs Department. According to these statistics, the importations of Rhodesian tobacco, cigars, and cigarettes into the Union for the Union for the calendar year 1913 amounted to 1,095,635 lb. weight, valued at £53,478. On the other hand, during the same period, Rhodesia imported from the Union tobacco, cigars, and cigarettes of Union growth and manufacture, aggregating 499,224 lb. weight, valued at £65,517. From these figures it will be perceived that, in respect to the exchange of tobacco, the balance of the advantage under present conditions accrues to the Union. The competition from Rhodesia should be met, not by refusing trade reciprocity, which is to the advantage of the Union, but by producing a better article in the Union.

asked the Minister of Lands whether, in view of the continuing drought, the failing of many wells in the western parts of the Orange Free State, and the fact that the hard rocky formation cannot be pierced by jumper-bores, he does not consider it advisable to send thither, without delay, the Government bores, which are able to pierce the rocky formation, in order to reach deeper levels and a stronger supply of water?

The Government became aware of the adverse conditions obtaining in the western portions of the Orange Free State Province some months ago, and accordingly, under Government Notice No. 1,825, dated 25th November, 1913, the districts of Boshof, Hoopstad, and Jacobsdal were included in the schedule of districts in the Union in which Government drills may be hired to bore for water. On the 30th January last a list was received containing the names of twelve farmers desiring to hire the drill now operating at Odendaalsrust, and the Magistrate has been asked to obtain the necessary completed individual application forms. Additional drills will be sent into these districts as soon as the demand justified such action.

asked the Minister of the Interior whether the petition of the Geneva Association of Hotel Employees and the Helvetia Union of Hotel Employees, presented to the House on the 14th April, 1911, and referred to Government on the 4th March 1913, for consideration, has been considered, and, if so, whether he will state what conclusion the Government has arrived at?

The petition deals mainly with questions which fall within the jurisdiction of the Provincial Councils and of Municipalities, and the Government does not therefore propose to take any action.

asked the Minister of Agriculture: (a) Whether he is aware that the dreaded gallamziekte is spreading over the greater part of the Orange Free State, the Transvaal, and the Cape Province, and that (hundreds of cattle weekly succumb to that disease; (b) whether experiments are still being conducted by order of the Government, and, if so, where, by whom, and with what results; (c) whether the special veterinary surgeons, whom the Prime Minister last year promised to allocate to those districts have arrived and commenced their duties; and (d) whether the inquiries and experiments carried on thus far have enabled the Government to recommend a preventative or a remedy?

(a) While it has recently been reported that gal-lamziekte has occurred in regions previously considered to be clean, such as, for instance, the Eastern Transvaal and Natal, it has been found, on inquiry, that in some cases the disease has been known to be on farms in these regions for the past two or three-years and even longer. This, it will be understood, shows that although fresh outbreaks are reported, it does not necessarily follow that the disease is spreading in any large measure to previously clean areas, but rather that it is making its reappearance in certain areas of the country. (b) Experiments are being continued by the Division of Veterinary Research, at Onderstepoort and in Bechuanaland, and in the neighbourhood of Graham’s Town; and also by Mr. Stead, the lecturer in chemistry at the Grootfontein School of Agriculture, (c) Unfortunately the services of a veterinary surgeon possessing higher qualifications than those already engaged in the department could not be obtained, but a first-class biological chemist was selected by Sir Arnold Theiler when in Europe, and has commenced work, and Professor Heddinger of Bale, an eminent veterinary pathologist, is expected to arrive in March to inquire into the subject, (d) All attempts to produce cause or cure the disease have failed so far, and it is impossible to state at the present time whether preventive treatment will have any lasting effect

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) What is the total amount of railway revenue that has-been sacrificed since Union owing to the reductions in railway rates; (2) upon what commodities have the reductions been made, and what is the total value of the reductions with respect to each commodity; (3) what is (a) the estimated and (b) the actual loss of railway revenue owing to reductions in rates for the present financial year up to the 31st December, 1913; (4) what is the total decrease in railway revenue up to the 31st December, 1913, as compared with the previous year; (5) what is the increased working expenditure for railways for the period from the 1st April to the 31st December, 1915, as compared with the corresponding period for 1912; (6) what is the number of (a) additional miles open; (b) the increase in (i) tonnage hauled; (ii) train miles run; (iii) engine miles run; - and (iv) passengers carried; for the period 1st April to 31st December, 1913, as compared with the corresponding period for the previous year?

(1) Reductions in rates and fares, estimated to involve annual forfeiture of railway revenue to the extent indicated, have been made since the date of union as follows:

These figures do not include minor alterations made from time to time in the tariffs. All reductions in rates and fares are cumulative in their effect. In other words, so long as reductions continue they affect the revenue for each successive year. Assuming the traffic carried during the nine months ended 31st December last to have been the same, of the same volume and conveyed over the same distances as that upon which the estimates were based, the total amount of revenue which would have been sacrificed from the date of Union to the 19th December, 1913, would have amounted to slightly over £2,500,000.

2. (a) All classes of traffic have been affected by the reductions, e.g., passengers, parcels, excess luggage, goods, vehicles, and livestock; also the charges at private sidings. The reductions made in 1911 affected practically all commodities carried by goods trains. The reductions made in 1912 affected the tariff for South African coal, rough native timber, rough materials and all articles which are included in tariffs 3 to 13; also the rates for livestock and the charges at private sidings, (b) Much time would be occupied and expenditure incurred in framing statements showing the value of the reductions with respect to each commodity, but particulars are appended ‘indicating the extent to which certain classes of traffic were expected to benefit at the period at which the reductions were made.

Distribution of Reductions made in February, 1911.—

Distribution of Reductions made in October-November, 1911,—

Distribution of Reductions made in Augusta 1912.

Distribution of Reductions made in October, 1912.—

Revision of Port Rates affecting.—

Jams, preserves, candles, plaster of Paris, gases in tubes, hops, bar and rod iron and steel, and all other articles carried at Class 3 (rate to Johannesburg reduced by 14s. 2d. per ton).

Asphalte, empty bags, trade vehicles, rough iron, printing paper, and all other articles carried at Class 4 (rate to Johannesburg reduced by 14s. 2d. per ton).

Bottles, jars, boxwood, shooks, and all other articles carried at Class 5 (rate to Johannesburg reduced by 12s. 6d. per ton).

Raw materials for manufactures, spraying materials, sheep lick, and all other articles carried at Class 6 (rate to Johannesburg reduced by 5s. 10d. per ton).

Returned empties, farm seeds, sheep dip, and malt (rate to Johannesburg reduced by 15s. 5d. per ton);

3. (a) On the basis of the traffic dealt with when the reductions were under consideration, the estimated loss in revenue, consequent upon the modification of the rates, is £1,336,500 per annum, or, for the nine months ended 31st December last, approximately £1,000,000.

(b) Without extracting from the invoices for each consignment affected by the altered rates during the nine months ended 31st December last, particulars of the rates actually charged and the rates in operation prior to the reductions, it is not possible to state the actual loss. Even if the figures were extracted, they would not be reliable, as the increased volume of traffic dealt with and the longer distances hauled are partly attributable to the lower rates. To illustrate this point, it may be stated that in 1911 the tonnage of South African maize for local consumption carried for distances over 400 miles was 14,987 tons, whereas in 1913 the quantity had increased to 42,388 tons, largely, no doubt, as a result of the material reduction made in the long-distance rates for this class of traffic at the end of 1911.

4. Decrease in railway revenue for period 1st April to 31st December, 1913, compared With corresponding period for previous year, £42,551.

5. Increase in working expenditure for period April 1 to December 31, 1913, compared with corresponding period for previous year, £598,072.

6. Figures representing increase for period April 1 to December 31, 1913, compared with corresponding period for previous year: (a) Average open miles, 395 increase; (b) (1) tonnage hauled, 647,270 tons increase; (2) train miles run, 1,355,725 increase; (3) engine miles run, 1,757,543 increase; (4) passengers carried, 797,456 increase.

asked the Minister of Lands: (a) How much was spent during 1913 on irrigation works in each of the Provinces; and (b) how much was advanced on loan during the same year for the construction of private irrigation works in each of the Provinces?

The approximate expenditure on Government irrigation works during the year 1913 was as follows: Cape. £4,180: Natal, nil; Transvaal, £8,169; O.F.S., £1,768. The amounts advanced in respect of instalments of irrigation loans during the same period were as follows: Cape, £135,680; Natal, nil; Transvaal. £2,263; O.F.S., £8,681.

asked the Minister of Education: (a) Whether he is aware that a book entitled “With Kitchener to Khartoum ” bas been prescribed for the Matriculation Examination this year; (b) whether he is not convinced that that work possesses very little, if any, literary value, and is at the same time detrimental to the moral development of the candidates; and (c) whether he will make representations to the University authorities to have the work superseded by another book which will answer the purpose of a text book?

The answer to portion (a) of the question is in the affirmative, the book referred to having been prescribed as one of the four books named in connection with the following clauses in the syllabus:

English A (Second Paper).—“ Section A. An essay on four given subjects, two of which will have reference to books which will be named. (The subjects are not intended to take the form of direct questions on the “books, but the books are to be regarded as furnishing material which may be utilised by the candidate in writing the essay.)”

English B.—“ Section C. An essay on one of three given subjects. One or more of the subjects for the essay will have reference to the books named in connection with the second paper under English A.”

In answer to (b) and (c): On the 12th November last representations were made to the University authorities, suggesting that, in view of protests made, the selection of the book referred to be reconsidered. The University replied to the effect that the reading of the four books, of which the said book was one, was largely optional, the only “penalty ” incurred by a candidate who did not read them being the loss of material which he might be able to use in dealing with his essay subject in the event of his selecting the appropriate subject. The reply further stated that the works to be prescribed had been recommended by a special committee after careful consideration of their suitability on literary and other grounds for school reading, that the selection had been announced as early as December, 1912, and that in view of all the circumstances it was considered that there was not sufficient reason for the Council to reopen the matter at that stage. In view of this reply no further action was taken.

asked the Minister of Lands: (1) What steps the Government intends taking with regard to the settlers at Mooibank, Potchefstroom; and (2) what is the cause of the delay which has taken place in dealing with this matter?

replied that the Government was giving the matter its careful consideration.

asked the Minister of Defence: (1) How many natives or coloured persons have been in Jured by and or died of gunshot wounds inflicted by the forces employed by the Government in the districts in which and whilst Martial Law has been in operation, and what enquiries, if any, have been or are to be made into such injuries or deaths; and (2) whether he will lay on the Table of the House copies of the evidence taken at and the reports made in accordance with such enquiries?

(1) Three natives were injured by gunshot wounds on the Witwatersrand: One on the 17th January at Van Ryn Estates G.M., died; one at Randfontein on the 18th January, since recovered; one on the 22nd January at the Robinson Central Deep. In the case of the native at Van Ryn Estates G.M., who died of the effects of the wounds, this native was one of a disorderly mob who refused to go to work, threw stones at the forces employed, and would not heed repeated warnings to halt when being rounded up by those forces. The Public Prosecutor has forwarded the papers to the Attorney-General for decision. In the case of the native at the Robinson Central Deep, the facts go to show that the shot was fired accidentally; the papers have been forwarded by the police to the Public Prosecutor. (2) The information asked for will be laid on the Table of the House in due course.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: When the grain elevators, about which there has been so much discussion and correspondence and which have been looked forward to for such a length of time and are so urgently required, will be erected at the stations where they are needed?

This question has for some time been engaging the attention of the Government, but it is considered both by the Agricultural Department and the Railway Administration that the time is not yet ripe for embarking upon the large capital expenditure that would be entailed by the erection of elevators in the principal grain-growing districts of this country, especially in view of the marked decline during recent years in the quantity of maize exported, and the fact that elevators are not generally regarded as suitable for dealing with local traffic. The maize export figures for the last few years are as follows: 1909, tons 155,119; 1910, 176,021; 1911, 101,853; 1912, 83,274; 1913, 13,890. In Australia, where wheat is exported in large quantities to the world’s markets, elevators have not yet been installed.

asked the Minister of Public Works: (1) What is the reason for the delay in converting the Old Town House, Cape Town, into the Art Gallery for the Michaelis collection; (2) when will the structural alterations be commenced; and (3) when may the Michaelis collection be expected to be sent to South Africa?

(1) The conversion of the Old Town House requires very careful consideration by the architect employed, and he is busy working out his scheme and preparing the necessary plans. (2) It is hoped to commence the structural alterations in probably three months’ time. The site has not yet been transferred. (3) The collection will not be sent to South Africa until the building is ready to receive it.

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) If it has been brought to his notice that on 7th November, 1913, Mr. R. D. Lyle, Acting Assistant Magistrate for the Newcastle Division, Natal, sentenced two indentured Indians to receive seven strokes each with a rod or cane for refusing or neglecting to perform their stipulated work, which sentence was afterwards quashed as illegal by the Supreme Court of the Natal Province; and (2) what steps have been taken to deal with the official who imposed this; illegal sentence ?

(1) I have had the matter inquired into, and find that on the date mentioned the Acting Assistant Magistrate sentenced two Indian boys, of the age of 12 and 11 years respectively, to a whipping of seven strokes with a cane or rod, for contravening section 3 of Ordinance 2 of 1850 (Natal). The sentence was imposed in their own interest, to avoid imprisonment with hardened old offenders. (Hear, hear.) The magistrate acted under section 25 of Act 22 of 1896 and Act 23 of 1909 (Natal), which allowed of such punishment', but the Supreme Court held on appeal that the Act of 1909 did not operate, because the Natal Ordinance No. 2 of 1850 did not provide for an alternative punishment to a fine. (2) It is not proposed to take any steps against the Acting Assistant Magistrate.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether his attention has been drawn to a speech made in Pietermaritzburg on the night of the 3rd inst. by Colonel Greene, late Railway Commissioner; and, if so, whether the statements made in that speech are correct?

replied that he found it impossible to give an answer to-day. The speech of Colonel Greene occupied something like three or four columns of the newspaper. A great variety of topics were touched on, and included a number of discoveries which Colonel Greene appeared to have made after three or four years’ service. (Ministerial cheers.) If the hon. member would allow him (Mr. Burton), he would give a reply at an early date to the main point.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether he is not of Opinion that the public have now waited long enough for the maintenance of equal rights of the two official languages; and (2) whether the is prepared forthwith to put a stop to the unequal treatment of the two official languages by the Railway Administration, particularly in regard to tickets and timetables, which in general are printed only in the English language?

(1) So far as the exigencies of the service permit the two official languages have already been placed on an equal footing by the Railway Administration. (2) (a) Tickets.—Instructions were issued twelve months ago to introduce tickets printed in both languages. Large stocks of uni-lingual cards were, however, then on hand, but arrangements were made for these to be reserved for use at the larger towns and in English-speaking districts, bi-lingual cards being supplied to stations in Dutch-speaking districts so that they might be brought into use as soon as the station stocks became exhausted. When the stocks on hand are exhausted bilingual tickets will become general at all stations throughout the Union. All season tickets supplied since August last have been printed in both languages, but several stations have still a quantity of the old unilingual tickets on hand, which will be used up before the new stocks are issued. (b) Time-table.—Excursion posters and leaflets and leaflet time-tables are printed in both languages. With only two, or, at most, three known exceptions, time-table posters are also printed in both languages. Time-table books are printed in English, but the portion of the foolscap time-table containing general information is repeated in Dutch at end of book.

asked the Minister of Defence: Whether the Government will at once withdraw, throughout the Union, the regulation issued under Martial Law prohibiting the holding of public meetings?

Instructions have already been issued for the withdrawal of the Martial Law Regulation prohibiting the holding of public meetings.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours (1) whether he is aware: (a) That at the time of the unveiling of the Women’s Monument at Bloemfontein, passengers from Johannesburg to Bloemfontein, after having bought first-class tickets land booked first-class seats, were compelled to accept accommodation in second-class compartments, which were temporarily used as first-class compartments, the word “First” being pasted over the word “Second”: (b) that such measure by the Railway Administration met with the strong disapproval of the public; and (2) whether he is prepared to give instructions that such steps be taken by the Railway Administration as will prevent a recurrence.

replied (1) The answer to this question is in the affirmative. (2) It is understood that a certain section of the public did express disapproval of the expedient adopted in this case, but no complaints were made by passengers who actually travelled in the second-class saloons in regard to their general comfort on the journey. The saloons were of the latest type and were infinitely superior in the matter of interior fittings to many of the older first-class saloons still in service. (3) It is only under very exceptional conditions that the practice of converting second-class saloons into first-class stock is resorted to, and on this particular occasion there was no alternative open to the Administration. The saloons are, of course, re-labelled as a guide to passengers and to facilitate the work of the station staff in connection with the seating and general traffic arrangements. On the date in question the Administration was hard pressed for first-class stock. Unfortunately the Dingaan’s Day celebrations clashed with the closing of the schools for the summer vacation, and at that time excursionists in large numbers were leaving inland centres for the coast. Fifty saloons (principally first-class) had to be worked specially to the Orange Free State for the conveyance of passengers residing in the vicinity of Bloemfontein who were visiting that centre for the purpose of attending the unveiling ceremony, and this, coupled with the heavy demand from different places for stock (1) for the Dingaan’s Day holiday; (2) for scholars proceeding to their homes from the various scholastic centres in the Cape Province; and (3) for the conveyance of excursionists to the coast, naturally resulted in an acute shortage of first-class saloons which it was found impossible to meet except by temporarily setting aside second-class vehicles for first-class traffic. Additional coaching stock in large quantities has been placed in traffic since Union, but passenger traffic has increased to such an extent that the stock available is still ’'totally inadequate at times of pressure. Further saloons are on order with the view of keeping pace With the demand and of preventing incidents such as that to which attention is drawn by the hon. member.

asked the: Minister of Agriculture whether he is aware that in the Transvaal dipping materials are being supplied to the natives at a lower price than that for which the said commodity is available for European farmers, and, if so, what is the reason for this difference?

When compulsory dipping of native stock was first put into practice, dip was supplied by the Department of Agriculture to natives on repayment, but when this system was discontinued the manufacturers offered to supply dip on consignment to all Sub-Native Commissioners, to be paid for by natives, when issued, at prices charged by manufacturers, no pecuniary responsibility being placed upon the Native Affairs Department. By this means a supply of dip is always ’available for natives, and the local officers of the Native Affairs Department are enabled to ascertain to what extent dipping is resorted to by them.

asked the Minister of Lands whether, seeing there is a great scarcity of water on account of the drought, the waterworks for Kopjes have been commenced?

The works for the supply of water for domestic purposes for the Kopjes township were commenced some time ago, the supply of portion of the plant having been delayed by strike: troubles in England. It is expected that the waterworks will be completed about the middle of March, and the inhabitants of the township will be able to make use of the supply about the end of March next.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether the Government intend to apply, the provisions of section 47 of the Railways and Harbours Service Act, 1912, to those railway and harbour employees who took part in the recent strike; if not, why not, and in which cases not?

A Bill will shortly be laid before the House dealing with the question of the railway strike, and the position of contributors to Pension and Superannuation funds who took part therein, and an opportunity will then be afforded members of discussing the whole situation.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) What is the number and class of (a) coaches, (b) wagons, (c) locomotives ordered for the South African Railways from overseas during the years 1911, 1912 and 1913; and to what firms were the contracts given for these articles during those years; and (2) how many contracts for South African Railways rolling stock or its erection were given to private firms in South Africa during the years 1911, 1912 and 1913, and what were the contract prices?

1. (a) 1911.—First class main line coaches, 30; first class suburban (corridor), 6; first class and van suburban corridor, 2; total, 38; from the Metropolitan Amalgamated Railway Carriage and Wagon and Finance Company.

1912.—First class main line, 12; first class side door suburban with lavatory, 5; first class side door suburban without lavatory, 5; second class side door suburban with lavatory, 5; second class side door suburban without lavatory, 5; first and second class side door suburban composites, 5; first class side door suburban, 10; second class side door suburban, 5; first and second class and van, 3; total, 55; from the Metropolitan Amalgamated Railway Carriage and Wagon and Finance Company.

1910.—First class main line, 24 (Metropolitan); third class suburban (Rand train), 15 (Cravens, Limited); first class main line, 10 (Metropolitan); First and second class, main line, 10 (Metropolitan); first class corridor, suburban, 10, first class and van corridor, suburban, 2 (Birmingham Railway Carriage and Wagon Company); first class, main line, 15 (Metropolitan); total, 86. (b) Wagons. —1911: 85,000 lbs. hoppers, 50 (Leeds Forge Company); covered cattle wagons, 200 (Metropolitan Company); N.G. cattle wagons, 20 (Leeds Forge Company); total, 270.

1912: 80,000 lbs. high-sided steel bogies, 502; 100,000 lbs. hoppers, 50; N.G. low-sided, 22; N.G. cattle, 4; N.G. cattle, 15; N.G. low-sided, 5; 80,000 lbs. high-sided, 200: total, 798 (Leeds Forge Company).

1913: 80,000 lbs. drop-sided, 100 (Metropolitan Company); 80,000 lbs. high-sided, 100: N.G. cattle, 10; N.G. low-sided, 10 (Leeds Forge Company); ballast and rail, 30 (Metropolitan); 80,000 lbs. drop-sided, 100 (Leeds Forge Company); fruit, 100 (Birmingham R. and C. and W. Company); 80,000 lbs. drop-sided, 200; sheep, 500 (Metropolitan); N.G. cattle, open, 8 (Gloucester C. and W. Company); N.G. low-sided, 6; N.G. cattle covered, 6; 100,000 lbs. high-sided, 500 (Leeds Forge Company; total, 1,670.

(c) Locomotives.—1911: Fifth class, 4 (Vulcan Foundry); 10/2 class, 5 (Beyer, Peacock and Company); M.F. class, 5 (American Loco. Company): M.C. class, 10; 3 B class, 10 (North British Locomotive Company); N.G. class, 1 (Baldwin Locomotive Company); 12th class, 4 (North British Locomotive Company); total, 39.

1912: 4 A class, 10; 12th class, 8 (North British Locomotive Company; 14th class, 20 (Stephenson and Company); N.G. class, 2 (Kerr, Stuart and Company); N.G. class, 1 (W. G. Bagnall, Ltd.); 15th class, 10 (North British Locomotive Company); total, 51.

1913: N.G. class, 5 (Kerr, Stuart and Company); 16th class, 12; M.C. 1 class, 15; 14A class, 20 (North British Locomotive Company); 14th class, 10 (Stephenson and Company); 14 A class 21 (North British Locomotive Company); 14th class, 15 (Stephenson and Company); M.J. class, 10 (J. Maffei 12th class, 10 (North British Locomotive Company); J class, 6 (Nasmyth, Wilson and Company); 14 B class, 15 (Beyer, Peacock and Company); 15 A class, 13 (North British Locomotive Company); total, 152. (2) No contracts for the building of rolling stock were given to private firms in South Africa during the three years named, but two contracts for the erection of certain engines and wagons were placed last year with a private firm in South Africa. Particulars are as follows: 14th class engines, 20 at £85 each; 80,000 lbs. steel bogie wagons, 100 at £15 each.

(The return was laid on the Table of the House.)

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours; (I) Whether it has been brought to his notice that a unilingual stationmaster has been appointed at Krantzpoort, in the district of Ermelo; and (2) whether, in view of the inconvenience thereby caused to the whole neighbourhood, he will take the necessary steps to appoint a bilingual stationmaster there?

(1) The reply to this question is in the affirmative. (2) Enquiries are being made with the view of seeing whether the stationmaster at Krantzpoort cannot be replaced by an officer with bilingual qualifications.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) How many special trains were run between Park Station and Benoni on Sunday, 29th June last; (2) how many return tickets were issued between these stations on that day, and what was the resulting revenue received; and (3) had arrangements been made for running other special trains between these stations on that day, and, if so, how many, and when were the orders for them cancelled?

(1) Two special trains were run. (2) Johannesburg-Benoni, first class: No. of return tickets issued, 179;. revenue derived, £26 17s.; second-class, 367; £45 17s. 6d.; total, 546; £72 14s. 6d. Doornfontein-Benoni, first class: No. of return tickets issued, 25; revenue derived, £3 12s. 11d.; second-lass, 14; £1 15s.; total, 39 £5 7s. 11d. Jeppe-Benoni, first class: No. of return tickets issued, 92; revenue derived, £13 8s. 4d.; second-class, 135; £16 17s. 6d.; total, 227; £30 5s. 10d. Grand total: No. of return tickets issued, 812;. revenue derived, £108 8s. 3d. In addition, a number of passengers for Benoni joined, these special trains practically at all intermediate stations between Jeppe and Benoni. The actual number of passengers carried by these two trains and the total revenue was as follows: No. of return tickets issued, first-class, 737½; revenue derived, £78 15s-5d.; second-class, 931; £91 16s. 10d. Grand total: No. of return tickets issued, 1,668½;. revenue derived, £170, 12s. 3d. (3) The answer to the first part of this question is in the negative, so that the second part, falls to the ground. As these special trains had previously been promised, on the usual terms, the Defence Department agreed to their being run, but instructed that no further specials be arranged without first consulting that Department.

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) Whether the barristers-at-law in the Transvaal last year struck, or rebelled, against going on circuit, for the reason that the Government had reduced their fees or rates of pay, and, if so, what was the rate of pay per day demanded and offered; (2) whether in consequence of the before-mentioned strike, or rebellion, any accused person liable to the death penalty remained undefended, or without the usual legal counsel;. (3) whether the strike, or rebellion, ended in the defeat of the Government and the re-instatement of the strikers, on the old terms, or, if otherwise, what are the present terms of employment of barristers-at-law; and (4) whether he can give any further information on this subject that will enable this House to understand the principle for which the before mentioned barristers-at-law struck, or rebelled ?

(1) In April of last year the advocates of the Transvaal refused to undertake prosecutions on circuit or pro deo defences in consequence of an alteration of the scale of fees payable in respect of such work. The scale of fees before that date was: Prosecutions, first day, £15 15s.; subsequent, days, £10 10s., and a free rail warrant. Pro deo cases: In Pretoria and Johannesburg, £5 5s. per case; on circuit, a free rail warrant and £1 per diem as subsistence allowance, but no other fee, The proposed new scale was: First day, £15 15s,; second, third and fourth days, £10 10s. per diem; subsequent days, £5 5s. per diem; pro deo cases, £3 3s. per case, and no free rail warrant in any case. (2) No 1 accused person liable to the death penalty remained undefended in consequence of this refusal of the advocates to appear. In cases where no advocate was available the defence was undertaken either by an attorney or by an advocate who was a member of the Public Service. In one case of rape by a native upon a young European girl at Johannesburg, the prisoner was undefended, but this was due to the fact that the advocate who was to defend could not appear; owing to some oversight or misunderstanding the brief was not passed on to another advocate. I may add that the question of pro deo defence was really not one of the points of the dispute, and that the members of the Bar long before the settlement of the dispute agreed, to undertake such defences at the request of the Court without any fee. (3) The dispute was settled in August of last year by the Acting-Minister of Justice agreeing to revert to the old scale of fees. (4) The reasons why the advocates refused to undertake the prosecutions were mainly because they resented the fact that the tariff of fees which had been settled by agreement with the late Attorney-General of the Transvaal Colony was altered without consultation with the members of the Bar, and secondly because they were not satisfied with the new scale-of fees. I have refrained from using the terms “strike or rebellion,” because these terms seem to me to be inapplicable in a case like this, where the advocates in question were not in the employ of the Government nor under any duty or obligation to undertake any prosecutions at all.

Why was Martial Law not declared? (Labour laughter and Ministerial cries of “Order.”)

asked the Minister of Defence: (1) What amounts have been paid, or are due, to purveyors of bread or other provisions to the Defence Force, police, special constables, and other officials in Johannesburg in connection with the proclamation of Martial Law during January; and (2) what are the names of the firms purveying bread and other provisions to whom these amounts have been paid, or are due?

The information asked for in the first part of the question is being obtained, and will be communicated in due course. It does not seem that any good purpose will be served by giving the information asked for in the second part of the question.

asked the Minister of Public Works whether, in view of the recognised inadequacy and absence of accommodation for postal and police quarters at Ladismith, and the fact that the municipality has made a free grant to Government of a site for a gaol and gaolers’ quarters, the Government will make provision on this year’s Estimates for the necessary funds for public buildings there ?

The programme of buildings to be provided in 1914-15 has not yet yet been decided upon. The necessities of Ladismith will have due consideration in preparing this programme.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether the Government undertook, in reply to the Federation of Trades, and contrary to the decision of this House, that the regulation will be so altered that railway and harbour employees who are candidates for Parliament or the Provincial Councils shall be granted leave of absence without pay, and, if unsuccessful in their candidature, shall be reinstated without break of service in their former positions; (2) whether effect has been given, and, if not, when it will be given, to this undertaking; (3) whether the regulation will enable employees of the railway and harbour service to be members of political associations; and (4) whether he will lay the amended regulation on the Table of the House?

(1) The answer to this question is in the affirmative, except that the undertaking given, though contrary to the regulations, can hardly be said to be in conflict with the decision of the House. (2) Yes, and an intimation was at the time conveyed to the staff by circular to this effect, but up to the present advantage has not been taken of the revised regulation by any members of the staff. (3) Yes, provided Regulation No. 343 is not infringed. 14) The question of the re-issue of the whole of the regulations, with the amendments agreed upon from time to time, is at present engaging attention.

asked the Minister of Finance: (1) Whether he is aware that those people, including widows, who received assistance out of the repatriation funds, are in great distress, and owing to the drought and other causes are absolutely unable to repay these debts, and also that, notwithstanding his assurance that these people would get extension of time and would not be prosecuted, a considerable number of them have been summoned, in consequence of which still greater costs and heavier liabilities are being incurred by them; and (2) whether he intends to put a stop to this ruinous state of affairs by presenting to the House during this session the necessary legislation satisfactorily to regulate this matter and, where necessary, to grant remission?

(1) It would seem that the honourable member has been misinformed as to the actual facts of the case. The Government’s instructions are that legal proceedings are only to be taken against those persons who, although they are quite able to meet their obligations, omit or refuse to do so; and, in each case, careful inquiry is made into the financial position of the debtor before such proceedings are instituted. It would, of course, be useless to take proceedings against debtors who are without the means of making payment of their debts. (2) In these circumstances, I do not see any occasion for disturbing present arrangements which provide adequate safeguards against such oppressive measures as seem to be apprehended by the honourable member.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs: (1) Whether it had been brought to his notice that the accommodation in the Post and Telegraph Office at Bloemfontein is insufficient; and (2) whether he intends to place a sum of money on the present Estimates for the erection of a suitable building there?

(1) The department has for some time felt that the accommodation for postal and telegraph purposes at Bloemfontein is inadequate, and the matter of meeting the requirements of the work has been fully considered. (2) Provision is being taken on the Estimates for the forthcoming financial year in connection with the provision of the requisite accommodation. The intention is to add another storey to the existing building, and to re-arrange the accommodation on the other floors.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs whether, seeing the telegraph linesmen have private gates in the fences of private properties, and those gates are often used by others who fail to shut them, thereby causing serious loss to the owners whose cattle got lost, he will not take steps to provide the linesmen with private locks and keys, so that the gates may remain securely locked?

Under the present practice, wherever gates are erected by the Post Office in fences of private properties for the use of linesmen, departmental locks and keys are provided. One key is handed to the owner of the property, and one key is kept by the linesman. Inquiries, are being made to ascertain whether any cases exist where the authorised practice has not been followed, with a view to arranging for the immediate supply of locks and keys in all such instances.

asked the Minister of Justice whether his attention had been called to the inadequacy of the police force along the coastal belt of Zululand and, having regard to the large number of natives and Indians, whether it is the intention of the Government to increase the number of European police in the district?

replied r. The area in question is policed by the South African Mounted Riflemen. Strenuous endeavours, now meeting with some success, are being made to recruit the strength of that force up to its proper establishment. When that has been achieved, the police force will be fully adequate.

asked the Minister of Lands whether it has been brought to his notice that, owing to the scarcity of water in the Korannaberg, the surveyors entrusted with the survey of Crown lands there for settlement purposes are unable to proceed with their work, and whether, with a view to obviating this difficulty, he will take into consideration the advisability of putting down without delay an adequate number of boreholes ?

It has not been reported to me officially that the surveyors referred to have been unable to proceed with the work in question, for the reasons stated by the hon. member, but the matter has been brought privately to my notice. I am unable to say in how far the sinking of boreholes will meet the position complained of, but will make inquiries into the matter with a view to seeing what action it is advisable or necessary to take.

asked the Minister of Agriculture: (1) Whether he is aware of the outbreak of horse sickness that has occurred in the divisions of Uitenhage and Humansdorp; (2) whether, seeing that the Uitenhage division is provided with a veterinary surgeon, whilst the Humansdorp division is not so provided, he will arrange for the provision of a special veterinary surgeon for Humansdorp and Uniondale, in order that the sheep and cattle farmers of those districts may have the much-needed services of such an officer; and (3) whether he is aware that in the divisions mentioned sheep are suffering from various forms of disease, such as hartwater, haarworm and galziekte, cattle from lamziekte, galziekte, sponsziekte, and other diseases, and donkeys from a strange disease resembling red water?

(1) In December of last year and early in January, outbreaks of horse-sickness occurred in Hankey district, Loerie River Valley, and on the Uitenhage Commonage. In Hankey district twenty horses and three mules died. (2) During the period the disease was rife a Government veterinary surgeon paid several visits to the affected areas and gave advice as to the nature of disease and preventive measures to be adopted. With the present limited staff, however, it is impossible to provide for the stationing of a veterinary surgeon in every district, but there is a Government veterinary surgeon stationed at Uitenhage, who is always available and ready to render assistance when outbreaks of disease occur in Humansdorp district. (3) It is well known to the Veterinary Division of the Agricultural Department that heart-water, wireworm, galziekte, lamziekte and sponsziekte are prevalent in the Humansdorp and Uitenhage divisions, and advice as to curative and preventive treatment for these diseases can readily be obtained from the local veterinary surgeon abovementioned. The disease affecting donkeys resembling red water is probably biliary fever (equine piroplasmosis), but no cases have been brought to the notice of the Veterinary Division. Biliary fever may be prevented by keeping the animals free from ticks by regular dippings.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: Whether he will be prepared to lay on the Table of the House the report of Mr. Macpherson on his inspection of the route of the proposed auxiliary railway line between Colenso and Durban.

It is the intention of the Government to lay upon the Table of the House, at an early date, a copy of Mr. Macpherson’s report on his inspection of a route for an alternative line between Colenso and Durban.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether it is the intention of the Government that the Statutory Commission shall continue with its inquiry into railway grievances, and, if so, what steps the Government propose to take to give the railway men an elected representative on that Commission ?

The answer to the first portion of the question is in the affirmative, and the Government intend to grant the Railway servants the same facilities to elect a representative as on the previous occasion.

MEN “OUT” AT DURBAN.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether he is aware that at the present time there are about 400 men, who took part in the recent railway strike, still locked out at Durban; (2) whether it is within his knowledge that, in common with strikers at other centres, all the Durban men have filled in forms for re-employment; and (3) what steps he intends to take, and when, to deal with this large body of men, who came out on strike in support of their fellow-workers?

(1) Yes; but the actual number is 334. (2) Of this number, 305 have signed application forms for reemployment. (3) A Bill will shortly be introduced dealing with the position of the men who have been reinstated, and a Committee of Inquiry is at present investigating the claims of those who have made application to be taken back.

asked whether it was a fact that men were being taken on at lower wages.

said that no single man had been taken back at a lower rate of wages, and he thought that all the men taken back were occupying their former positions. It was clearly understood, however, that this was subject to revision and decision by that House. (Ministerial cheers.) He pointed out that according to law these men would in the ordinary course forfeit all their pension and other rights, and would be considered as having retired from the service. (Ministerial hear, hears.) He was understood to say that clemency would be shown these men. But no single man had been taken back at a lower rate of wages. No conditions had been made with them. If he were to put on the screw they would have been in a very different position, but he should not apply the screw. Parliament would have to decide what would have to be done with these men.

Mr. Speaker (Cries of: “Order.”)—

I cannot allow any further discussion.

Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the Minister, arising out of that question, another one, will he immediately then give an official denial to the statement which was in the paper this morning?

I should not have permitted the question by the hon. member for Jeppe. The matter cannot be debated. (Hear, hear.)

asked the Minister of Lands: (1) Whether the Government have considered the representations made from time to time with regard to the condition of the inhabitants of the Strijdpan and Stompiesfontein Settlements, where the said people, owing to the protracted drought and the long delay of the Government in coming to their assistance by conducting boring operations for water, are in a totally helpless condition, owing to which not only many head of cattle have been lost, but also loss of human life has been caused; and (2) whether, in view of the fact, well known to him, that these settlements, owing to the absence of any assistance in the direction indicated, are a total failure, he is in a position to inform the House that the Government intend forthwith to put a stop to this unsatisfactory skate of affairs, and thus prevent the absolute ruin of the people concerned ?

The Government has under consideration at the present time the position of the settlers at Strijdpan and Stompiesfontein, and what steps can be taken to supply them with water. I am not aware that there has been loss of human life by reason of want of water.

asked the Minister of Justice what are the reasons for the differentiation in pay of Special Justices of the Peace in the Union, varying, according to the Estimates of expenditure, from £36 to £240 per annum.

All sorts of rates of pay for Special Justices of the Peace who are not whole-time officers in the Public Service prevailed prior to Union. My predecessor fixed £72 a year as the payment for Special Justices of the Peace in the two coastal Provinces, and £100 for Special Justices of the Peace in the two inland Provinces. The rates will gradually approximate to these standards in course of time.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs: (1) What was the approximate extent of the opening of private letters by Government order during the strike in Johannesburg; (2) what proportion of the European mail was held over for the purpose; and (3) what useful object was served, or expected to be served, by this procedure?’

(1) The Government is not aware of any private letters having been opened during the strike in Johannesburg; (2) no portion of the European mail was held over for the purpose indicated; (3) this query is answered by the foregoing replies.

asked the Minister of Finance when the report of the Tuberculosis Commission will be ready?

The attention of the hon. member is invited., to the answer given to question 12 to-day.

asked the Minister of Native Affairs whether the Government have any intention of allowing (1) the resumption of tropical native recruiting; and (2) the recruiting of Madagascar natives for work in the mines?

The answer in both cases is in the negative.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs whether cables to and from the United Kingdom were censored during the recent strike period, and, if so, what was the object of such censorship?

Such telegrams as were censored during the recent strike were censored with a view to preventing the commission of criminal offences. Martial Law offences, or any act or conduct to the prejudice of good order or public safety.

asked the Minister of Defence: (1) How many cases were there in which compensation was paid by the Government to those who were injured through no fault of their own by the military in the strike of July last; (2) what was the total amount paid as compensation; (3) what was the maximum amount paid in any one case, arid the nature of the injury in that case; and (4) whether he will lay Mr. Jordan’s report on the Table of the House?

As the notice in this case has been so short, I am obliged to ask the honourable member to allow this question to stand over.

said he would like to ask the Minister of Defence a question of which he had given private notice. The question was whether the Government would so far relax the Martial Law regulations as to permit free comment in the Press—in those districts where Martial Law prevailed—on the deportations; and if not, what emergency or danger to order existed to-day, which justified Government in thus suppressing comment.

said that the answer was in the affirmative.

said he thought it would be a convenience to the House if the last three motions on the paper were now taken. He moved: That a Select Committee on Public Accounts be appointed, the committee to have power to take evidence and call far papers.

Agreed to.

moved that the Committee consist of fourteen members.

said that he did not know what the principle of the Government was in regard to the appointment of committees and he did not think it would be right if he did not bring, before the House certain matters in regard to the appointment of members of committees of that House. Here they had to do, perhaps, with the most important committee of the House— a committee which was appointed every year—a committee which had to go into the public accounts. If he were not Wrong, it was the custom, he thought, and it had been the custom of the old Cape Parliament, for those who had been on that committee to he appointed year after year, because of their special knowledge of matters of finance. They had found out, however, that since last year the name of the hon. member for Uitenhage (Mr. Fremantle) had been taken off the committee—a man who had served for years on that committee in the old Cape Parliament, as well as in that Parliament since Union. No reason had been given at all for taking him off that committee. He did not think that the Minister of Finance would tell the House that the name of that hon. member had been taken off the committee because he was not a desirable person to serve on that committee, or that he did not have the necessary knowledge of financial matters. If the Minister of Finance regarded the real interests of the country, he should have nominated the hon. member tor Uitenhage to serve again on that committee. Then, again, into Union the hon. member for Ladybrand (Mr. Fichardt) had been on that committee, and had always taken the greatest interest in financial matters, but the only thing that could be brought against that hon. member was, he thought, the attitude which the hon. member had adopted against the Government in that House; but, without any reason being given, his name had been taken off the committee. Might he ask the Minister of Finance for what reason the hon. member had been taken off? The Government was acting, not in the interests of the country, or of the House, but with an eye on the elections, and the Government tried within the House and outside, in the country, to follow one line. “Let them, by giving jobs and holding out expectations, get faithful followers.” A more corrupting principle, as far as the interests of the country were concerned, he could not think of. Why had the Minister left those two hon. members off the Committee? He went further: They had a member of that House who was known as one of the best financial members of that House, and who had been (applauded by the Opposition, as well as, by the Government, when he had been Minister of Finance; he referred to Mr. Hull, the hon. member for Barberton. He had been on that committee for some years past, and now they found he was pot; good enough to serve on that committee. He asked the Minister whether the hon. member was so unqualified as not to be a fit man to serve on that committee? It struck him that the Government wanted certain persons on that committee for its own reasons, and because it did not want other persons on the Committee, because they were apt to draw attention to matters which in their opinion required it. He protested as strongly as possible against the action of the Government. In the first place, they must ask: What was in the interests of the people of the country with regard to the finances, and what was necessary for that House? They must have all the information that could be got with regard to the finances of the State, and it must be acknowledged that the Government was in duty bound to appoint the best men of the House on that committee. It looked very much as if the committee was appointed to serve the Government, and not the House. Members of the Opposition and members of the Labour Party were appointed on that committee, so that it should be representative of the House, but he asked why had the names of these three hon. members he had referred to been left out of the list? Why bud the Government nominated those only who belonged to the political party to which they themselves were attached? He would move that the name of the hon. member for Barberton be added to the committee.

pointed out that the hon. member could move later, when they came to the names.

moved, as an amendment, that the word a fourteen” be deleted for the purpose of inserting the word “fifteen. ”

seconded the amendment.

said that he was astonished at the moderation of the motion which the hon. member had proposed at the end of such a speech as he had just delivered. He had thought that they were going to have all the other three “financial experts” on that committee, and that they were going to increase the number of members to 17, from what the hon. member (General Hertzog) had said. It had become unnecessary for him to answer with regard to the high financial qualifications of the other two members who had been referred to by the hon. member. (Laughter.) As to the hon. member for Barberton (Mr. Hull), the reason why he had not been placed on the committee was this: Last year he (General Smuts) had asked the hon. member for Barberton if he would serve on that committee, and he had agreed to do so. When the list of members proposed to be appointed to the committee had been published, the name of the hon. member had figured on it. The list had been published and came to the notice of the House, but when that had been done, the hon. member (Mr. Hull) told him (the Minister) that he did not desire to serve on the committee, and so he (General Smuts) had to withdraw the hon. member’s name from the list, and for that reason, and for that reason alone, the hon. member had not been placed on the proposed committee. It had been his (General Smuts’) desire that the hon. member should serve on the committee. That was the reason why this year he had not asked for the name of the hon. member to be put on the committee. The hon. member (General Hertzog) had asked why the committee had been appointed as it was? Were there any secrets to be kept? Was anything to be held back ? Was the Committee appointed in order to support the Government? He (General Smuts) asked hon. members only to look at the names of the committee. (Cheers.) Had it been the intention of the hon. member (General Hertzog) openly in that House to insult members of the Opposition? The names of the hon. member for Cape Town, Central (Mr. Jagger), the hon. member for Fordsburg (Mr. Duncan), and the right hon. member for Victoria West (Mr. Merriman) figured on the list, and many others. Would they keep anything back? (Cheers.) He could go through the whole list if necessary. The principle on which a committee such as that was formed was that the recognised parties of the House were consulted. The Government Party was consulted, the Opposition Party was consulted, and members of the cross-benches were consulted— but factions of a party were not consulted.

(Hear, hear.) The hon. members to whom the hon. member (General Hertzog) had referred, and he himself gave forth, that they belonged to the Government Party, and so they must be satisfied with the names of those members of the committee who represented the Government Party. (Laughter and cheers.) He could not agree to the motion.

rose to speak, but

said that the hon. member had already spoken.

Not on this motion.

said that what they wanted the committee to do was to work, and it must not be too large. He thought 15 members would be preposterous, and they would not be able to get the work done. If they had nine members who took an interest in their work, he thought that number would be quite sufficient.

said that he quite agreed with the words of counsel which had just fallen from the hon. member opposite (Sir E. H. Walton), and that a committee of that kind should not be so large as to be unwieldy. He had had experience of that committee from the years he had served on it, and the smaller the committee was, the better. For that reason he would ask his hon. friend (General Hertzog) to withdraw his proposal. From what had been said by the Minister of Finance, he did not think he would be justified in serving on that committee. He would like, however, to correct the statement made by the Minister of Finance. The hon. Minister’s memory had failed him—

Yes, once again

continuing, said that he had a perfect recollection of what had happened last year and the ear before. It was not as the Minister ad said that afternoon, that he had come to him, and that he (Mr. Hull) had promised to serve on the committee, and that he had afterwards resigned. He had a perfect recollection of what had taken place, and what had happened was this: the Minister of Finance had come to him and asked him if he was prepared to serve on the committee, and he had at once said: “No, I am not prepared to serve on the committee.” He thought a committee of 14 even was too large, and for that reason, and for that reason alone, he begged that his name should not be added to the committee.

withdrew his amendment.

The motion was then agreed to.

then moved that the Committee consist of Mr. Merriman, Sir Edgar Walton, Sir David Harris, Sir Thomas Cullinan, Messrs. Creswell, Cronje, Currey, Duncan, Jagger, Krige, Louw, Orr, Robinson, and Dr. Watkins, the Mover to be specially exempted from service thereon.

Agreed to.

That a Select Committee be appointed on the Management and Superintendence of the Parliamentary Library, with power to confer with a committee of the Senate, the committee to consist of Mr. Speaker, Sir Bisset Berry, Messrs. Merriman, Haggar, Van Niekerk, Van der Riet, Sir David Hunter, Mr. P. G. W. Grobler, and the mover.

said that he objected to the statements of the Minister that, as a faction, they had no right to be consulted in regard to the appointment of the Committee

The debate on this proposal is past. (Hear, hear.)

The motion was agreed to.

moved: That a Select Committee, to be called “The Waste Lands Committee,” be appointed to consider and report upon all such recommendations for the disposal of Crown lands, or of servitudes thereon, or conditions connected therewith, as may be submitted by the Government, under the provisions of any Act or law requiring Parliamentary approval: the committee to have power to take evidence and call for papers and to consist of twelve members, viz.: Messrs. Heatlie, Becker, Wiltshire, Alberts, E. N. Grobler, King, Oliver, Brown, Nathan, Baxter, Andrews, and the mover.

said he could not understand why the name of the hon. member for Worcester was placed on the list of members, seeing that owing to ill health it was well known the hon. member could not attend the meetings. The Minister of Finance said they were not prepared to recognise factions. But they did not form a faction, as they had shown on different occasions. The Government were making factions of them by excluding them from the party. He suggested that the name of Mr. Heatlie be deleted and the name of Mr. P. G. W. Grobler be substituted. The latter was a very capable member.

said he was surprised at the remarks made by the last speaker. He knew nothing of the indisposition of the hon. member for Worcester, but oft the other hand understood that the hon. member was yesterday present in the House. The Government had not the least objection, to the hon. member for Rustenburg, but the Government had acted in good faith in compiling the list. Moreover, the hon. member for Rustenburg was nominated on other committees.

moved that Mr. P. G. W. Grobler be a member of the committee, seeing that he was well acquainted with the question of settlements.

asked whether the last speaker had obtained the consent of the hon. member for Rustenburg.

replied in the negative.

said the committee had nothing to do with settlements. He was not willing to be a member of that committee in view of the fact that he was proposed as a member of the Select Committee on Native Affairs, and the latter committee would take all his time.

The motion was agreed to.

moved for leave to introduce a Bill to prevent disorderly conduct at public meetings.

seconded.

The motion was agreed to.

The Bill was thereupon read a first time, and the second reading set down for the 25th inst.

moved for leave to introduce a Private Bill to provide for a supply of water from the Vaal River for the Rand Water Board, to confer further powers on the said Board and to amend in certain respects the Rand Water Board Statutes, 1905 to 1906 (Transvaal), and the Rand Water Board Further Powers Act, 1909 (Transvaal).

seconded.

The motion was agreed to.

The Bill was thereupon read a first time,

moved for a return showing: (1) The number of men in the Railway and Harbour Departments whose services were dispensed with during the year 1913; (2) the pay, age, and service of such men, the cause for dismissal, the Departments in which they worked, and the grades in which they were placed; (3) whether they were married or single; (4) the number of men taken into the service during the same period; and (5) the financial effect of such changes. He said there was no doubt the recent disturbances in this country and the retrenchment policy of the Government have had a very disturbing effect, and he was now asking for an actual estimate of the number of men who had left. When they got that information they would be able to deal with the matter properly. There was a widespread feeling in the country that there had been on the part of the Railway Administration a policy of getting rid of men in times of slackness, and thus it was said that large numbers of men who had been employed had bad to leave without any good reason being supplied, and had been thrown on the streets to look after themselves as best they could. The Railway Department must realise its responsibility as one of the largest employers of labour in this country. It was not open to the Railway Department even at times of slackness to discard a number of hands and throw them on the streets at this period. The conditions of this country were peculiar. The country could not absorb a number of men at any time who were thrown on the labour market—it could not find employment for them. Take such districts as the Rand—if the mines were full up, * and he Relieved they were usually full up, what was there for the railwaymen who were discharged? If they were thrown on the labour market they remained on the labour market, or possibly they find work at a lower rate of pay. He dwelt rather strongly on this point, because the Minister himself had admitted that retrenchment was going on. He thought, too, the cases which had been presented to him were shocking. A man who had worked in the stores department had in the course of his work damaged his hand and lost his thumb; he was a married man with a family, but decided not to bring an action against the Government, in the hope that his employment would continue. For a time he was taken back into ‘employment. Under the Workmen’s Compensation Act they had to bring an action within six months after the injury had been caused. This man was retained in employment for ten months and then was discharged. There was not a single employer in this country who would have treated an employee in that way.

There was another case—a man who had 17 years’ service, and who in May next would reach the age of 60. He was a checker and had no black marks against his character. On January 20 without any warning whatever he was given 10 days’ notice that he had to leave the Government service. What sense was there in an action of that kind? (Mr. FREMANTLE: Hear, hear.) That man had a grievance, and it seemed to him (Sir Edgar) that he was hardly treated. He (Sir Edgar) did not think there was a single employer who would so treat a man who had been in his service 17 years; such treatment was not humane. He was afraid there was a danger that the Railway Department would get to look at the question purely from the business aspect and not from the point of view that the Railway Department was part of the Government of the country, and that the railway workers were not only employees, but were citizens, and the Government was responsible for the well-being of the country. In the interest of the country Government should see that it did not throw on the streets a number of men who could not get jobs at once and therefore became unemployable. When the Minister received a deputation of railwaymen at Pretoria before the strike he said that he would be prepared to consider other means of saving money than by retrenchment but the report given to the public by the members of the deputation was the direct contrary of that statement. He wanted to hold the Minister to his statement and he desired the House to devise some policy which would render retrenchment of the kind he had referred to unnecessary.

He had been looking into the railway figures and found that the revenue from railways for the first eight months of the current financial year was £8,214,790, and from the harbours £673,000. The estimated receipts for the year were £13,369,499, two thirds of which was £8,912,999, so that the difference between the actual revenue and the estimated was only £25,202, so there was no great falling off in revenue. The actual expenditure was £6,572,058, whereas two-thirds of the estimated revenue amounted to £6,517,106. (Mr. FREMANTLE: Hear, hear.) Hence the actual expenditure was only £55,000 more than the estimated expenditure. Supposing these figures to be correct, there was a total difference of £80,000.

That could not be said to give a position which demanded any general retrenchment. The figures did not seem to warrant any action of that kind, yet in the Minister’s speech he did speak of retrenchment, and said retrenchment was necessary, but the necessity did not seem to be proved. We had in the Railway Department some 30,000 to 35,000 white men, and the natural wastage was very considerable. By death they would lose probably from 10 to 15 per thousand. They would also lose a certain number who would retire on pension, and likewise a certain number of men who would be dismissed for misconduct. The natural wastage, he thought, should have obviated the necessity for dismissing people who were good workmen. At Port Elizabeth he suggested the same plan should be followed by the railway which was adopted by all great employers. If a big factory got slack it did not discharge a lot of its hands, because they would be wanted when the busy time came round again, so it was arranged for the men to cease working for half a day a week each. Thus the necessity for dismissing men was avoided, while all the men lost a little in wages. Thus, the necessary economy was effected without throwing people out on the streets, which was a serious matter, especially in South Africa, where retrenched men could not depend upon obtaining other employment, and consequently the community had to support them in some way or other. He spoke with a certain amount of feeling, because, with the hon. member for Fort Beaufort (Sir T. W. Smartt), he had done more retrenchment than most people had At the time to which he referred they had to carry out retrenchment, there being then an actual necessity for it. Another plan to prevent retrenchment had been suggested to him by one of our oldest railwaymen, who said to him, “The way out of this mess is for all of us to give up 5 per cent, of our wages for three months, but it must be done by all, from the Minister and General Manager downwards.” He (Sir Edgar) did not ask that Government should keep men on who did not want to work, or who were incompetent, but 99 per cent, of the railwaymen were decent, hardworking fellows, who were extremely anxious to earn their livings, support their families and bring up their children as good citizens. “I hope we shall,” concluded Sir Edgar, “realising our responsibilities, not only as the owners of the railway but as being responsible for the wellbeing of the people, lay down the policy that strict commercial principles will not apply, if that means getting rid of men, and that other means must be found to meet any temporary urgency which may arise in the working of the railways. (Hear, hear.)

said that he rose at once to say that he had not the slightest objection to the motion that had been put before the House. The return was being prepared, and would be placed upon the Table so soon as it was ready. He hoped that the House would not enter into a prolonged discussion on this subject at the present time, because he did not think that it would be of advantage to them. He thought it better that the House should wait for the full figures of what happened in December and what happened last year, and he was desirous of placing the fullest possible information before the House on the subject. Moreover there was no use in starting a discussion on the subject now for the simple reason that there was evidence to show that the matter would be thoroughly thrashed out in the course of the debate on the Indemnity Bill. It could not be avoided under that head, though, personally, he was inclined to think that it was irrelevant to that debate. It was no use discussing the question that afternoon, because they would only cover the whole of the ground again in the other debate. He understood the hon. member for Port Elizabeth, Central, to say that he (the Minister) agreed that the House should lay it down as a rule for the future for the management of the railways that there should be no retrenchment, and that when there was tightness men should be kept on instead of being retrenched, whether these men were required or not. He hoped the House would accept the assurance that the figures would be laid on the table as soon as possible.

moved an amendment to the motion, to add at the end the following paragraph, viz.: (6) The names of all men in the Railway and Harbour Departments whose services were dispensed with during the year 1913, but who have been reemployed therein, with their pay On retrenchment and on re-employment, but with regard to temporary men the names and other details only of such as were re-employed at lower wages.

seconded the amendment.

thought that, the list of names should be brought up to the present date. The speaker alluded to the excellent work done by the hon. member for Port Elizabeth, South-west (Mr. J. Searle) during the recent trouble, and said that it was almost solely due to his efforts that the men did not come out. But on top of all the good work that they had done they received information of injustices that had been done men. He read a letter showing that a man with 17 years’ service and 58 years of age and still hale and hearty, had received notice of retirement as late as February 6. He would lose all his benefits, and he (the speaker) thought that this was a case that, might be looked into by the Minister. This man had not been connected with the strike in any shape or form. This was only one of several cases of Port Elizabeth men who had been treated in the same way. Could the Minister understand bow hard had been the work of members in their efforts to avert a strike at Port Elizabeth when they got cases of this sort? As a matter of fact he was going to bring forward a special motion and give facts with regard to the cases of men unjustly dealt with, who had been injured in the service, and he hoped that the Minister would take the opportunity of making a full explanation on these points.

Then he referred to the case of a man who had left the railway service, but who, when Mr. Merriman was in power had 5 per cent, taken from him, the understanding being that it would be returned in the future. When the 5 per cent, was returned this man had already left the railway service, and when he applied for the amount that was due to him be was told that he could not get it because he was not a member of the railway service at the present time. He thought that that was a case of injustice that should be remedied by the authorities. He referred to the loyalty of the men, and said that it was only right that real grievances should be redressed by the Government.

referred to the cases of men on the fixed establishment who had been retrenched without the sanction of Parliament. He moved as a further amendment, to add at the end the following paragraphs, viz.: (7) The number of such men who were on the fixed establishment; and (8) the amounts paid in bonus for piece-work and for overtime.

seconded the further amendment.

said he had no doubt that railwaymen throughout South Africa would appreciate the remarks that had been made by the hon. members for Uitenhage and Port Elizabeth, but he would remind both those hon. members that many times the benches which he represented had brought forward the grievances of the railwaymen. Though they had always got sympathy from the hon. members who had just spoken, this sympathy had not been backed up by votes. They allowed the grievances of the men to go to a Commission, which in the end had achieved nothing. If these gentlemen and the House had done their duty in the past, the ventured to say that all the recent trouble would not have taken place. In the past the Labour members had received plenty of pious sympathy when they brought, these matters up, but this sympathy had never been backed up by votes. He hoped that hon. members would take the lesson to heart, and that in the future they would give more than sympathy to some of the suggestions that came from the cross-benches.

was understood to say that, if less arrogance had been displayed by the members on the cross-benches, they would have got more support in the past. (Hear, hear.) If the hon. member on the cross-benches would only speak the truth as to what took place in the House, he would get more assistance. Proceeding, he said he would challenge the leader of the Labour Party to repeat the statement that he (the speaker) and his hon. friend on his right voted against piecework and against the eight hours bank to bank. During the trouble he had done his best to talk common-sense to those men, many of whose fathers worked under him for years, and in a small way it had the effect of keeping the men within the bounds of common-sense. He was present with the Divisional Superintendent when he met the men, but the grievances were only minor ones after all, and when the Divisional Superintendent had gone as far as his department would allow him to remedy them, the men were satisfied. The man who had preceded him had trusted too much to the staff, and the complaints had not been properly brought forward, but there was now an open door. He knew there were cases of hardships, which he did not think that the General Manager or the Railway Commissioner could be aware of. He entreated the hon. friends who posed as Labour leaders in the House to use common-sense, and not merely wave the red flag to the Department of Railways.

said that the hon. member who had just spoken had challenged him to repeat a portion of a speech of an hour’s duration which he made six months ago, and if his memory had been good enough, he would have gladly done it. There was not one single statement he had made, except one slip, which he corrected at Port Elizabeth, that did not come straight out of Hansard; every statement he made was recorded in the Votes of Proceedings in the House. He went on to say that those Tuesday afternoon electioneering speeches came from the Opposition side of the House every session, and no doubt they would always make them. Was it surprising, when they knew that nothing was done, that the men came to the conclusion that they could get no justice from Parliament? The people who were to blame were sitting over there (the Government benches).

said he did not think that the speeches from the cross benches helped the railway men. It had been said by two or three of these speakers that nothing had been done at all, but he knew that some had their increases, and many were well satisfied. Everybody had not got what he wanted, but it was useless to deny that there had been something done, and they would get more by seeking legal constitutional methods than by violent harangues from the cross benches.

Both amendments-were agreed to.

The motion as amended was Agreed to.

moved that a Select Committee he appointed to inquire into the working of the Miners’ Phthisis Act of 1912, the committee to have power to take evidence and call for papers, and to consist of nine members. The hon. member thought that some other committee was necessary to go into that matter, because he had watched the Act since it was put into operation, and while the objects of Parliament were excellent in trying to afford the victims of that dread disease relief, he was not quite sure that the intentions of the House were not adequately carried out.

intimated that he would accept the motion of the hon. member, but it must not be understood that he did so in a spirit of passing reflection on the Miners’ Phthisis Board, because he thought that the Board had been dealing with a great many difficult problems and a large number of cases in a satisfactory manner. But there were certain matters in connection with miners’ phthisis which might reasonably be inquired into. That the Board were working expeditiously he would give a few up-to-date figures to show. During the three months ending 31st January, 1914, the Board had dealt with 675 cases, new and old, and there remained old and new cases at the end of January last 500. The awards made during the three months up to the end of January, 1914, amounted to £140,324. The total amount of applications dealt with by the Board up to 31st January, 1914, was 4,554. Under the temporary Act of 1911 they had been paid £58,383, and in lump sums, in all, £342,468 had been paid. In twelve months the total amount of liability which had been incurred by the Board was £755,668, making the total amount of awards since 1911. £1,156,519. Of the 4,554 applications which had come before the Board there were 269 that did not fall under the provisions of the Act. They had not served four years or had forfeited their claims in one way or other. There were men who applied on the off chance of having the disease to the number of 335. The applications under section 21 (a), that was the twelve months cases, were 1,039, and under section (b), the four years, serious cases, 2,892. That number included 750 dependants. The House would see, therefore, that just over a thousand in the first stage and two thousand in the last stage had already been dealt with. There were 19 applications withdrawn, so that the total number of cases was 4,554. That he thought was enough to show that the Board was doing a very great work indeed. As the House took a great interest in the administration of the Act, and as he would like an expression of opinion, he would support the appointment of a Select Committee.

said he felt that there was no necessity on anybody’s part to censure the Board, because they had done their best under very adverse circumstances. He was glad that the motion had been accepted, but at the same time he was somewhat disappointed that something immediate was not going to be done in the matter. The Board had done good work and had pointed out many ways in which the administration of the Act might be improved. He thought an Act should have been passed at the beginning of this session making the necessary amendments. It was desirable that a Bill should be introduced totally reconstructing this matter. The benefits awarded under the Act had amounted to a very large sum, per a million sterling, but they were still very inadequate. (Hear, hear.) What they had done was to create a class in this country who, while he would not say they were going to be a danger to the country, at any rate were going to be a very great eve-sore, i.e., a body of people who were willing to work and could not work, because their blasting certificates had been taken from them. They had taken a body of people from their ordinary occupations who could not, unfortunately, turn to any other occupation. They had taken them from mining to which they had been trained and accustomed, and paid them £8 per month for one year, and at the end of that period had told them that there were no more benefits, and they had been unable to get work. This class of men was going to be increased in the future, and the House ought to consider the advisability of making some further provision for these men.

expressed pleasure at learning from the Minister that a Select Committee was to be appointed. Was it not possible, he asked, to get the Miners’ Phthisis Act amended? The position of affairs was not so bad as had been made out by some hon. members, and many of the people were most grateful for the assistance which had been given them. Unfortunately, however, those who had received compensation could not now get work anywhere, and if it were possible to find work for them in one or other department, it would afford them a good deal of relief. Something would have to be done for those unfortunate people, and the speaker felt most deeply for them. The Act was a good one and had already proved to be most useful, but its provisions required to be supplemented.

said he would like to emphasise what had been said in regard to the urgent necessity of the Government going further than merely the Select Committee stage in this matter during the present session. He thought that anybody who had had experience of the working of the Miners’ Phthisis Act on the Rand must agree that it had produced, a condition of affairs which required urgent attention. He understood that the Government had given a kind of promise that they would bring in legislation during the current session to deal with the necessary amendments to the Miners’ Phthisis Act. He thought himself it was a good thing to have a Select Committee by way of inquiring into the working of the Act and finding out where it was working badly, but he hoped that the Minister was not going to allow that to exonerate the Government from introducing legislation this session. In its working it was producing misery and reducing a considerable number of men to a state of indigency. He hoped that the committee would be able to finish its work soon, and that the Government would use every effort to bring in some amending Bill during the present session.

The motion was agreed to.

moved: That a Select Committee be appointed to enquire into the question of so amending the South Africa Act that the guidance of Almighty God will be distinctly and plainly acknowledged in the affairs of the Union, the committee to have power to take evidence and call for papers and to consist of five members.

The speaker said he was aware that the subject of his motion concerned a very delicate question, which might probably cause some debate. For that reason he would say nothing about it. No hon. member of the House would be willing to deny that in the course of events in this country the guidance of the Almighty was visible. Could not that subject be discussed then, just as much as the subject of conciliation? The Government was not responsible for the omission in the Constitution of an expression affirming this. Did it not contain the phrase: “God save the King”? Every section of the Government party was making use of the omission to which he had referred to strike at the Government, which was quite unfair, and he hoped, therefore, the Government would accept the motion.

said the Government had no difficulty in accepting it. He had arranged with the mover of the motion that the latter would consult the Government as to the membership of the committee. A certain amount of feeling existed in the country in regard to this question, and the Government had no objection of any sort to the motion.

The motion was agreed to.

That in the opinion of this House the Government be requested to take into consideration the advisability of (1) not putting into force section 47 of the Railways and Harbours Service Act, 1912 (which provides for the forfeiting of contributions to the Superannuation Fund under certain circumstances), with respect to those Railway and Harbour Servants who took part in the recent strike and, if necessary, of introducing the necessary legislation; (2) allowing those men who have been taken back into the Railway and Harbour service to retain all the existing and accruing rights which obtained prior to the strike; and (3) reinstating those men who so desire and who have not as yet been re-employed. He said it might have been better had this motion come on in the debate which he understood was to follow in connection with another matter before this House, but there were one or two points in it which raised the direct issue. Unfortunately they could not have those points decided on the matter which was at present being discussed. Last Tuesday hon. members will remember, he tried to raise this question, but his motion was ruled out of order, as if it were passed it would involve additional expenditure. He hoped that the Government would recognise that that House, as representative of the people of the country, would do something at the earliest opportunity for these men who had been locked out, or who had been reinstated on terms which were very unfavourable to them. Having referred to the terms of the motion, the hon. member said he had no doubt that the Minister of Railways and Harbours, in his reply, would tell him that all these men had, by withdrawing from the railway and harbour service, contravened section 19 of the Railway and Harbour Service Act of 1912. Well, he wished to try to show and try to prove to that House that these railwaymen who had withdrawn their senders were covered by that proviso of “reasonable excuse,” and had a reasonable excuse, as the hon. member for Port Elizabeth, Central (Sir E. H. Walton)—who had been backed up by the other hon. member for Port Elizabeth—had pointed out, and who, in a very able speech of half an hour ago, had informed the House that, in his opinion, the Government had not been justified in going forward with a policy of retrenchment, and throwing men on the streets, in view of the financial position of the railways. If these railwaymen were thrown on the streets, there was little opportunity given to them of obtaining other employment. It was said that they might go to the mines, but the mines had sufficient men already, and probably of the thousands of unemployed in Johannesburg many would like to get on the mines. These railwaymen who had been thrown out of work had a claim on that House, for consideration on every hon. member; as members of the House had neglected their duty to the railway workers and the other workers of the country in the past. The railwaymen had been put off by Select Committees and Commissions, which had given them no relief, although some of their recommendations had been carried into effect, as the Minister of Railways and Harbours would, no doubt, tell them, but these were mainly minor departmental matters, which should have been rectified without the men asking that these things should be dealt with. These railway workers had, in season and out of season, used constitutional means for the redress of their grievances, and what had been their reason for eventually taking drastic action? In order to prevent retrenchment and more unemployment in that co unfry, and in order to prevent men being thrown on the streets to starve. These men had been rendering a national service, and had gone on strike in a spirit of self-sacrifice; they knew the risks which they were running, and had been prepared to run them—what for? In order that the ranks of the unemployed might not be swelled.

interrupted, and said something about leaders.

went on to say that he supposed that the hon. member was trying to insinuate that most of these men had been pulled out against their will, and he admitted that some of them had come out in a spirit of loyalty, to stand by their fellow-workers. These men were not only railwaymen, but they were also citizens and taxpayers of that country, and had an opportunity of finding out what the expenditure was, and what orders were sent oversea; and he claimed that these men, as colonists and citizens of South Africa, had a right to participate in the wealth which they produced, and that they had a right to say that rolling stock should be produced in that country instead of orders being sent oversea. Continuing, he said that they had had all sorts of committees and Commissions, and the net result of all their efforts was that the railway workers found themselves considerably worse off than they had been three or four years ago. Let them take the question of piecework, which the men had opposed almost unanimously in the country when it was proposed to introduce it in the railway workshops. Piecework really meant unemployment by speeding up. In Natal so much had they objected to the introduction of piecework that they had come out on strike in 1909. They did not know then that there was such an individual as Poutsma, who had been blamed largely for what had now taken place. But, he pointed out, there were many Poutsmas in South Africa and all over the world, in fact, and because they had deported one that did not mean that there were not more left.

You need not make us afraid.

said he would read a few extracts from the Rule Book of the Natal Government Railways before Union. He would quote some rates, and compare them with the rates prevailing for the same class of work at the present time. Under the N.G.R. regulations, wagon lifters got 11s. per day, but under the new “regulations, issued at ” the beginning of last year, which have caused a large amount of discontent in the country and had nearly participated a strike about 12 months ago, they found wagon lifters starting at 6s. per day, and rising to 8s. Labourers used to rise to 9s. per day but under the new regulations, which the Minister of Railways and Harbours had the honour of putting into effect, they started at 4s. 6d. per day, and rose to 6s. A special class of labourers, which the Minister had introduced, started at 3s. per day and rose to 5s. per day. All the artisans had had their standard rates reduced, in the Transvaal they had been reduced from 19s. to 17s. per day; but in the Cape they had maintained their old rate. In Natal the rates had been reduced from 14s. to 13s., and in the Free State from 17s. to 15s. That was some of the ” prosperity ” which they had heard so much about, and which was being shared by the railway workers at the present time.

Having alluded to the wages of drivers in Natal, which he said had also been reduced, and gave instances to bear that our, the hon. member said that firemen used to get paid 11s. a day on the N.G.R., but now they could not get any higher than 9s. per day, starting at 6s. per day, and they had firemen firing the new engines on the corridor trains in Natal—a tip-top work— for 7s. a day.

There were 5,000 men in receipt of wages from 8s. to 5s., and the conditions of railway workers had been going from bad to worse. It might be said that the Cape men had come off fairly well, but it must be remembered that a few years ago wages had been reduced, and now that they had a period of prosperity, it was only right that the men of the Cape should have their rates increased. In Natal they had enjoyed before Union political liberties. They were allowed to join any political organisation and take a part in the affairs of the country. Then they had the Railway Grievances Commission, which dealt with a large number of personal cases, but there were many cases which never came before the Commission at all. In addition, there were 299 cases dealt with which affected matters of policy. A large number of those grievances have still to be rectified. There was the eight hours a day. The Administration had said that that question was under consideration, but it had been under consideration for a long time, and after receiving the report of the Commission, new regulations were issued, which meant that men would have to work twelve hours a day in many branches of the service. The Commission had also recommended a fixed minimum wage, based on the cost of living. Were there any men in that House who would like to say that the rates of pay he had mentioned were consistent with the cost of living in any part of South Africa? What had been the reply of the Government to the railway workers in July? They had said that they were prepared to recognise the Railway Society only on condition that it should consist solely of railway and harbour workers; that would have meant that the society, could not have had an impartial secretary. The speaker went on to refer to the appointment of that other Commission, for which Mr. Poutsma and Mr. Duncan were candidates. A telegram had been sent to every superintendent and stationmaster in Natal asking for the return of the number of men who would vote for Mr. Duncan. Before the report of the Commission was issued, there was a rumour that a thousand men were to be retrenched; a few months later the Minister of Railways said that, probably the number would be 500. All the Press of the country took up cudgels on behalf of the railway workers, and there were leading articles, etc., pointing out how unnecessary retrenchment was front every point of view.

The General Manager of Railways sent letter before the strike to the mechanical engineers, which gave the reasons for retrenchment. The letter stated that the financial result of the working of the railways during the preceding 10 months had caused a considerable amount of concern, and that it had become necessary to consider what action was to be taken to reduce the working expenses. As salaries and wages represented the bulk of the expenditure there would probably be no alternative but to reduce the establishment to the smallest possible limit consistent with the carrying on of good work. The General Manager added that he proposed calling a meeting shortly of heads of departments to consider the position, but in the meantime he asked the engineers to arrange for the preparation of lists of the staffs of their departments whose services could be dispensed with on the ground of retrenchment. Continuing, Mr. Boydell said that the Minister of Railways in his Budget speech last March stated that the railway revenue was to be sacrificed by reducing rates to the extent ‘of £444,000 for the financial year. According to the figures given by the Minister of Railways, there was a decrease in railway receipts up to the end of last year of £42,551. At the same rate the decrease for the financial year would be £54,000. But if this wholesale reduction in coal and other rates had not been made, maintained Mr. Boydell, there would have been an increase in the railway revenue of something like £380,000. Railwaymen had to be thrown on the streets in order that a certain favoured section of the community could have their goods carried in some cases at less than cost price. Last year there was an increase of nearly “£500,000 in working expenses, which was all explained away by the General Manager, who pointed out the increased amount of traffic dealt with. For the first nine months of the present financial year there was an increase of open miles of railway of 395, an increase in train miles run of 1,366,000, and an increase of passengers carried of over three-quarters of a million and an increase in tonnage hauled of ½ million tons.

Was the policy of retrenchment justified from the point of view of there not being work for the people on the railways? He (Mr. Boydell) knew of no administration in my part of the world which could be so busy as the Union Administration had been and have such an increase in traffic, and yet at the same time to be able to reconcile that with the policy of retrenchment. Much overtime was worked in all the railway centres during the past 12 months. (Mr. FREMANTLE: “Hear, hear.”) Since Union no less than £2,846,000 had been spent on rolling stock purchased overseas, this including 179 coaches, 2,758 wagons, and 242 locomotives. Surely the people of this country ought to have an opportunity of making the rolling stock the Union required. It was because of all this that the men eventually took the drastic step they did to prevent their fellow workers and probably themselves being thrown on to the street. It was a noble strike.

The hon. member must not go into that matter now.

I want to justify my motion and to get the House to accept the principle that these men who are out of work shall be reinstated with their full rights, and unless I do this now I shall have no other opportunity, as I submit to you that there is no clause in the Indemnity Bill which deals with the provision.

While the men entered into what was an orderly strike from their point of view, the Government took extraordinary methods in order to deal with them. There was nothing unusual in these workers coming out on strike as a protest against the action of the Administration. When they came out they did not know that they were going to meet fixed bayonets and Martial Law

said that the hon. member must use discretion in handling this motion, seeing that it formed part of another debate.

said that the reason the men were out was because they did not succeed in their action of protest against the Government after they had exhausted every reasonable way of obtaining redress. The Government, however, sheltered itself behind Martial Law and; fixed bayonets. The Government brought out these troops and adopted these extraordinary methods and this prevented the strike from being conducted as strikes were usually conducted. He had a paper which had arrived from England, and which stated that in South Africa 60,000 troops had been called out for the purpose of crushing the railway strike. How was it possible to bring this strike to a successful conclusion: when such stringent Martial Law regulations were put in force. It was a dastardly and devilish way—

said he must point out that the hon. member must handle the question with discretion. If he had thought that the motion was not going to be handled with discretion he would not have allowed it.

said it was very difficult to handle this subject without touching on the other. He could not help referring to the fact that the men could not conduct this strike as strikes were usually conducted.

Immediately Martial Law was declared their leaders were arrested, and what possible hope had the men of bringing the strike to a successful issue when a policy of such a stringent character was carried out by the Government. He would point out that these men had not gone on strike until they had exhausted every possible means of obtaining redress. He said that this Parliament in the past had not carried out its proper obligations, and not done its: duty towards the railway workers of this country. Many of these men came out in the spirit of loyalty towards their fellow workers, loyalty which he did not think the Minister of Railways and Harbours quite understood. These men stood by their fellows to protest against the Government, going in for a policy of retrenchment which the country admitted was not warranted. No chance was allowed these men of having a fair fight. The Government stabbed them in the back. As soon as the Government had declared Martial Law

said he must really call the hon. member to order.

said these men came out on strike to prevent any further unemployment in the country. Last year the Minister, in reply to a question which he had addressed to him, said that 8,000 men had applied to the Railway Administration for work. It had been said that members on the Labour benches had not received support because of the arrogance they had displayed, but he did not think they would get that support whether they discussed matters reasonably and calmly and with argument, or whether they used strong language. For three years the Government had been treating the railway workers with the most callous indifference. In view of the fact that it was admitted in the country that retrenchment at this period was not justified he asked the House to support the motion.

said he rose to make it clear that of course he could not possibly accept the motion. He was not going to traverse all the statements made by the hon. member for Durban, Greyville, because he was electioneering

Deal with it properly.

said it must be perfectly clear to the House that a motion of this kind could not be accepted by the Government.

Why not?

said it could not be accepted by the Government for the simple reason that the time had not come to consider these things.

These men are on the street.

said he informed the House that afternoon that he intended to bring a Bill into Parliament dealing with the position of these men who went on strike. Parliament could only deal with the case of these men by means of an Act. The whole position would be before the House when the Bill was introduced. He hoped the House would agree with him that it was impossible to accept that motion at that stage as it would prejudice the preparation of the Bill.

agreed that the matter would have to be dealt with by the Bill, but he would urge the Government to remember that there was a considerable number of men under suspension, many of whom had families and they had nothing definite to look forward to.

(pointed out that the motion was only asking the hon. member to consider the advisability of doing certain things and in voting against the motion the Minister was hardly consistent with the statement that he intended to bring in a Bill. There were many men at the present moment who were looking to that House and the Government to do something to help them If the hon. Minister intended to bring in a Bill to take an early opportunity in dealing with the matter, it was difficult to see why he should oppose the motion. There was nothing in it to give him cause to do so, as it was only asking him to consider the advisability. He (Mr. Boy dell) was ruled out of order last week, when he tried to get the House definitely to commit itself to the reinstatement of those men, and he had since been compelled to alter the motion. He hoped the hon. Minister would introduce his Bill at a very early date, and in that hope would withdraw the motion.

The motion was accordingly withdrawn.

rose to make a further explanation as regarded the position of the men who went on strike, and who had tried to get back to work. He had said, earlier in the afternoon that none of the men were taken back at a lower rate of wages than they got before. He had had the matter inquired into, and it appeared that what he had said was correct as regarded all men who had sent in applications, and had since been accepted up to the 23rd January. It would be remembered that at the time the strike had got towards the end to some extent, and a notice was issued to the men on the 16th of January, stating that whoever had not come back on the 23rd would be dealt with under the Act and would be regarded as having retired from the service. He was told that some of those who had not availed themselves of the opportunity granted to return to the service had been put on the same-rate of pay as new men. They were the only exceptions.

Arising out of that

would not allow the’ hon. member to continue.