from M. Orde and others, inhabitants of East London, praying for legislation providing for the Direct Popular Veto, whereby men and women may decide by ballot on the continuance, reduction, or issue of liquor licences, or for other relief.

a similar petition from W. C. Meiring, president of the Women’s Christian Temperance Union, and 51 others, inhabitants of Worcester.

from J. R. Bresler, of Woodstock, who was discharged from the service of the Convict Department in 1912, praying for consideration of his services since 1890, with a short break, and for relief.

from Edith J. A. Black, of Simon’s Town, a teacher under the Education Department, praying for the condonation of a break in her service, or for other relief.

from Helena Bishop, a widow, who in 1901 obtained permission from the Cape Agricultural Department to erect a building on certain waste land for the sale of refreshments, but against whom an order for eviction has now been obtained, praying that she may be granted either fixity of tenure or adequate compensation, or for other relief.

from Ellen Sowter, of Molen Rivier, George, widow of Isaac Sowter, late Chief Storekeeper in the Postal and Telegraph Department, praying for an increase of pension, or for other relief.

from Frances Donaldson, of Cape Town, widow of the late W. Donaldson, of the Cape Town Highlanders, praying for an increase of pension, or for other relief.

from Charlotte A. Turner, wife of W. J. St. J. Turner, formerly Resident Magistrate, Tabankulu, who after twenty-five years’ continuous service resigned his position in 1906, left the country and has not since returned, praying that the amount contributed by her husband to the pension funds may be refunded to her, or for other relief.

First and Special Reports by the Public Service Commission upon matters concerning the Public Service of the Union.

Prison Benefit Fund Regulations; Probation Regulations; and Amended Rules for the Authentication of Documents.

requested that the notice of motion standing in his name, in which the Government were invited to introduce a Bill providing for uniform franchise qualifications throughout the Union, and which had been set down for to-day, be discharged and set down for Tuesday next.

said he would ask that this should not be done without the House expressing an opinion. He called attention to Rule 52.

The hon. member has given notice of a motion for a later date. Rule 52 does not apply to that. Hon. members can withdraw their motions and put them down for a later date.

The notice for to-day was discharged, and the motion set down for Tuesday next.

read a letter from Sir Ernest Kilpin, dated April 7, stating that when the death of the late Sir Gordon Sprigg was announced in the House of Assembly on the 4th February last, and a resolution of regret at his loss was unanimously adopted, it was suggested by Mr. Merriman that, in memory of so distinguished a statesman, his portrait should be presented to Parliament. Acting upon this, several members of both Houses, as well as some of Sir Gordon’s friends, had subscribed for a portrait to be painted of him. The portrait, by Mr. Edward Roworth, had now been completed, and, at the request of the donors, he (Sir Ernest) had the honour to ask that it should be accepted.

I would like to inform the House that I have accepted this portrait on behalf of the House, which it is the wish of the donors to present—(hear, hear)—and that there will be an official presentation on Monday next at 11 in the morning in the Conference Room.

asked the Minister of Education: (1) What is the number of school inspectors in each of the four Provinces of the Union; (2) what is the average number of schools in charge of each inspector in each Province; (3) what is the average number of pupils inspected by each inspector in each Province; and (4) what is the average salary drawn by each inspector in each Province?

replied: (1) Cape, 31; Natal, 9; Transvaal, 17; O.F.S., 8: (2), 138, 75, 53, and 103; (3) 6,845, 5,261, 4,322 and 3,140; and (4) £509, £482, £740, and £567, respectively.

asked the Minister of Mines: (1) Whether he is aware that development work or mining has ceased on certain ground held under mining title by the Afrikander Proprietary Mines, Ltd., situate on the farm Rietkuil, No. 126, in the mining district of Klerksdorp; and, if so, (2) whether he does not think that the circumstances are such that the company named may be called upon to give reasons (if any) why the development work or mining has ceased, and be further dealt with in accordance with the provisions of section 127 of Act No. 35 of 1908 (Transvaal)?

replied. (1) The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative. (2) The company has recently been called upon to give reasons for the cessation of work, with the result that the Government is satisfied that further pressure should not be brought to bear on the company for the present. The further progress of events in connection with the company is receiving my attention.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) How many persons, from 31st May, 1910, to 28th February, 1913, have been discharged from the railway service in consequence of having reached the age limit of 60 years and were not entitled to any pension or gratuity; (2) how many persons so discharged of the same class have received a gratuity of less than two years’ wages; and (3) how many of those so discharged were declared unfit for further work by medical certificate?

replied: (1) Seventy-nine persons not entitled to any pension or gratuity were retired during the period 31st May, 1910, to 28th February. 1913, in consequence of having reached the age limit of 60 years. (2) Fifty-three of these received a gratuity of less than two years’ wages. (3) Only one person so discharged was actually declared unfit for further work by medical certificate, but in many instances the persons retired were unable to continue in active employment. Where this was obvious, medical certificates as to their unfitness were not obtained. Medical certificates are unnecessary in such cases, and are not required under the regulations.

on behalf of Mr. W. D. Baxter (Cape Town, Gardens), asked the Minister of Public Works whether it is the case that the weir under construction for a Government-aided syndicate at Knorhaan Drift, above Bayville, which was being carried out under the direction of the Irrigation Department and on plans prepared by that department, has been destroyed by floods, and, if so, what is the estimated loss and the measure of the Government’s responsibility in the matter ?

replied: It is true that some of the works at Knorhaan’s Drift, on the Sunday’s River, were severely damaged by a high flood in that river early in the present year. It is an exaggeration to say that the works were destroyed, as the damage done represents only about one-fifth of the amount spent on those works, and will not materially affect the development of the irrigation scheme. The loss incurred has not in any way affected the security for the Government loan, and the company are making good the damage from their own resources. The failure cannot be attributed to any definite feature of the design adopted, which was by no means an untried or novel one, and the Government can take no responsibility for the failure of any specific work carried out under an irrigation loan.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) What is the number of fatal accidents which occurred at railway level crossings throughout the Union, during the year 1912; (2) what is the number, for the year 1912, of (a) persons injured at the said level crossings, and (b) accidents to vehicles and stock; and (3) what are the amounts paid by the Administration as compensation relatively under paragraph (1) and subsections (a) and (b) of paragraph (2) hereof?

replied: (1) 10 fatal accidents occurred at level crossings throughout the Union during 1912, involving fatalities to 10 persons; (2) (a) 26 persons were injured at level crossings during 1912; (b) there were 343 accidents to vehicles and livestock, representing damage to 30 vehicles and death or injury of 517 head of stock: (3) compensation paid; (a) in respect of persons killed, nil; (b) in respect of persons injured, £37 17s.; (c) in respect of vehicles damaged and livestock killed or injured, £1,128 11s. 5d.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether, seeing that the retail price to the public in the Transvaal for Little’s Dip is from 6s. to 6s. 6d. per gallon, he will state under what arrangement natives are allowed in the Transvaal to purchase through Native Commissioners the same dip for 4s. per gallon?

replied: When compulsory dipping of native stock was first put into practice, dip was supplied by the Department of Agriculture to natives on repayment, but when this system was discontinued, the manufacturers offered to supply dip on consignment to all Sub-Native Commissioners, to be paid for by natives, when issued, at prices charged by manufacturers, no pecuniary responsibility being placed upon the Native Affairs Department. By this means a supply of dip is always available for natives and the local officers of this Department are enabled to ascertain to what extent dipping is resorted to by them.

asked the Minister of the Interior: (1) Whether it is a fact that but for the efforts of the Unionist Party organisers by means of canvass and circular, thousands of eligible persons would have been omitted from the voters’ rolls of Witwatersrand constituencies; and, if so, (2) whether, in view of the fact that the regulations for compiling such voters’ rolls provide for a house-to-house canvass by persons appointed by his department he can account for the large number of persons stated to have been omitted, and whether he will take steps at an early date to render the assistance of party organisers and outside agencies unnecessary in the compilation of accurate voters’ rolls?

replied I have no information whatever in regard to the steps taken by political parties in connection with the registration of voters. From the second part of his question the hon. member seems to be fully aware of the department’s instructions to the official registering officers, and I have no reason to think that those instructions have not been fully carried out.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether his attention has been called to the unsatisfactory and inadequate accommodation for passengers and goods at Content, and whether he will take steps to have the same remedied?

replied: The question of building a new station to afford improved facilities at Content has been under consideration for some time. Work has now been authorised, and will be commenced as early as practicable.

asked the Minister of Defence whether it is a fact that the clothing required for the Citizen Defence Force is actually being made in Germany, and, if so, what were the special reasons for allowing the contract to be completed in a foreign country?

replied: No contract for the supply of clothing required for the Defence Forces being completed in Germany.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs: (1) Whether he is aware that the closing of the post office agency at Malopo has caused great inconvenience to the local public, because (a) all letters and papers have now to be fetched at Buurmansdrift or Rooigrond, and (b) all correspondence intended for Mafeking and posted at Rooigrond is now conveyed to Lichtenburg and thence via Fourteen Streams to Mafeking, causing a delay of six days; and (2) whether he will reopen the said post office agency?

replied: (1) Malopo was originally on the through post-cart route between Lichtenburg and Buurmansdrift. After the opening of the railway between Buurmansdrift and Mafeking the costly cart service from Lichtenburg to Buurmansdrift was discontinued. In view of the fact that special expenditure for the conveyance of mail matter would have been involved after the withdrawal of the cart service, and as the bulk of such matter was for the agent himself, he was asked to receive and despatch the mails gratuitously. This he was not willing to do. Consequently the agency was closed, (a) Letters and other mail matter have to be brought from Buurmansdrift or Rooigrond, which places, however, are not very far away, (b) Correspondence for Mafeking posted at Rooigrond has now to circulate via Lichtenburg and Fourteen Streams, since it is not of sufficient importance to warrant a direct service with Buurmansdrift. (2) It is not at present proposed to reopen the Malopo agency.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs: (1) How many miles of telephone have been erected to the east of the main line of railway of the Orange Free State, i.e., from Norvals Pont to Vereeniging, and to the west of the main line of railway respectively; (2) how much was spent during the years 1910-11, 1911-12, and 1912-13 on erecting telephone lines to the east of the main line of railway and to the west of the main line of railway, respectively; (3) how much has been placed on the Estimates for this year (1913-14) for telephone lines to the east of the main line of railway and to the west of main line of railway, respectively; and (4) what are the descriptions and lengths of lines which his department intend to erect during the present year in the Orange Free State to the east of the main line of railway, and to the west of the main line of railway, respectively.

replied: (1) There are 353 miles of telephone circuit east and 332 miles west of the railway. (2) During the three years the construction expenditures in the east were £700, £1,215 and £9,735; and in the west £169, £538, and £1,000. (3) East, £18,110; west, £1,755. (4) East (a) main trunk route, 46 miles; (b) subsidiary trunk circuits, 287 miles; west, trunk circuit, 69 miles. The hon. member will have in mind that the grain districts lie to the east of the railway and that about three-fourths of the total population of the Province is in that area. It might also be stated that the expenditure on the main trunk lines to the east of the railway is really inter-Provincial in that, eventually, it will provide telephonic communication between Orange Free State, Natal and the eastern districts of the Cape.

asked the Minister of Lands: (1) What was the cost of the inquiry into the question of reducing quitrent; (2) why the Commissioner refused to take the evidence of persons who had previously laid their case before the Quitrent Commission as also of persons to whom a reduction had been granted; and (3) whether he will during the present session introduce a Bill making provision for an easy system of payment by instalments in order to secure uniformity in the several Provinces, or to grant some reduction?

replied: (1) The cost of the inquiry into the question of quitrents was £391 12s. 6d., made up of personal expenses of the Commissioner, £366 12s. 6d.; railage, £25. (2) The terms of reference to the Commission did not embrace inquiry into those cases where inquiry had already been made by the Board appointed under Act No. 26 of 1899 (Cape). Exhaustive consideration had already been given to such cases, and there was no object in re-opening them. Notwithstanding this, the Commissioner made such inquiry as seemed to him to be necessary in relation to all representations submitted to him, regard being had to the terms of reference. (3) From the report of the Commissioner, which was laid on the Table on the 27th February last, it will be observed that no strong case has been made out for the grant of further relief. As regards the establishment of uniformity of quitrent in the several Provinces, this is certainly desirable. But a scheme could only be evolved after the fullest inquiry, and there are many more urgent matters claiming attention at the present time. There is no prospect of legislation being introduced during this session.

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) Whether Prison Service Order No. 4, published on 4th March last, is in accordance with the provisions of section 88 of Act No. 13 of 1911; (2) whether such regulations could not have been made by the Governor-General and published in the “Union Gazette,” as was the case with the police regulations; and (3) whether, in consideration of the facts (a), that Prison Service Order No. 4 lays down the quarters allowance for single officers at 1s. per diem, and (b) that previous to 1st April, 1913, single officers of the Transvaal Prison Department received 1s. 6d. per diem (which, according to section 40, Act No. 19 of 1908. was a pensionable emolument), the difference between these amounts is in any way made up to such single officers?

replied. It is requested that the hon. member will be good enough to postpone his question for a few days. I will give the information later.

The following additional answer was subsequently given:

replied: (1) and, (2) Prison Service Order No. 4 was issued by virtue of Prison Regulation No. 541, which is in accordance with the provisions of section 88 of Act No. 13 of 1911. Under the old Cape and Transvaal practice prison rates of pay were not set forth in regulations. In order, however, to treat the two services, police and prisons, uniformly, I propose incorporating the rates of pay laid down in the said Prisons Service Order in a separate regulation to be framed under section 88 of the Prisons Act. (3) There is no case of an unmarried pensionable officer in the Transvaal drawing the quarters allowance referred to. Had there been the rights of such officer would have been safeguarded.

asked the Prime Minister whether, seeing it has abundantly rained in the country districts, he will take the necessary steps to issue at an early date a proclamation whereby the duty on imported meat will also be charged in the Transvaal Province?

replied: It is desirable that the question of withdrawing or maintaining the suspension of the fresh meat duties in the Transvaal should be held over for consideration, until the general proposals for revising the Customs tariff as a whole are dealt with by Parliament.

asked the Minister of Defence whether he is aware that military exercises are conducted on Sundays in the Cape Division by the local Defence Force, and whether he will take steps to prevent such exercises being held in future on Sundays?

replied: Under very exceptional circumstances, the Commandant-General recently sanctioned the Cape Field Artillery on one particular occasion carrying out gun practice after church parade at their Easter Camp but, as a rule, military drill and exercises are not, and will not be, held on Sundays.

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs: (1) Whether, during 1912, the claims for subsistence allowance of officers who performed relief duties of 120 days or less have been refused; and, if so, on what grounds: and (2) whether the transfer of officers for such short periods is not contrary to the subsistence allowance regulations?

replied: (1) Up to November, 1912, it was the rule to pay subsistence allowance up to 90 days only, and any claims in excess would necessarily have had to be disallowed. After November, the period during which subsistence allowance was granted was extended to 120 days. (2) It was the practice prior to November, 1912, to transfer officers where the relief was for more than 90 days. Since November, transfers have only been effected in cases of reliefs exceeding 120 days. This is in accordance with the special regulations applicable to the Post Office, which, on the whole, are advantageous to the staff.

asked the Minister of Justice whether, in view of the serious case of cruelty to animals tried in “B” Court, Johannesburg, on the 17th ultimo, when the accused persons were convicted and sentenced to one month’s imprisonment, he will be prepared to suggest to Magistrates to consider the advisability of adding lashes to any term of imprisonment that may be imposed in cases where gross cruelty to animals is proved?

replied: As the Transvaal law on the ill-treatment of animals does not allow the imposition of lashes as a punishment, it would be illegal for the Minister to act on the hon. member’s suggestion.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours:

1. (1) What is the rebate allowed by the railways on agricultural machinery; and
2. (2) whether he will favourably consider the allowance of a rebate on the railway tariff for aermotors, used for raising water for watering stock?

replied: (1) Agricultural machinery is charged at Tariff 6, and no rebate is allowed thereon. Presumably what the hon. member has in view is irrigation machinery, on which a rebate is granted of the difference between the rates charged for the several classes of material used in the construction of permanent irrigation works, and Tariff 11. The rate for windmills or aeromotors was reduced from Tariff 2 to Tariff 6, the same tariff as now applies to agricultural machinery, as from the 1st October last, and it is not proposed to make any further reduction. As an example of the substantial reduction made in October, it may be stated that the rate for the conveyance of this traffic from Algoa Bay to De Aar was reduced from £4 1s. 8d. to £1 11s. 8d. per ton, a reduction of over 60 per cent.

asked the Minister of the Interior: (If Under what circumstances Mr. W. B. Gurney was transferred from the Department of Inland Revenue, Pretoria, to the office of the chief storekeeper, Cape Town; (2) whether Mr. Gurney has been promoted to a first grade clerk in the latter office, and, if so, whether he possesses the necessary qualifications for the post; (3) how long Mr. Gurney has been in service; (4) why Mr. Gurney was promoted and not other senior clerks; (5) what were Mr. Gurney’s previous salary and status and what is his present salary; (6) why Mr. Rendell was brought from England to fill the post of chief storekeeper of the Defence Department: (7) was there no other official in the country possessing the necessary qualifications; and (8) what is the salary of the chief store-keeper?

(1) The transfer was made to meet the accounting requirements of the stores organisation, which is controlled by the Treasury. (2) The answer to both points is in the affirmative. (3) The officer in question has completed nearly ten years’ service. (4) Taking everything into consideration, and also his special qualifications for the post, the selection of this officer was deemed to be in the best interests of the public service. (5) Previous salary, £291 per annum (including local allowance); previous status, second grade clerk; present salary, £280 per annum. (6) Mr. Rendell is not chief storekeeper of the Defence Department. He has been placed in charge of the office formed to supervise the stores work of certain Government departments, but excluding defence, police, post office, and railways and harbours. Mr. Rendell was assistant superintendent of stores on the staff of the High Commissioner in London, but the reorganisation of the work in the High Commissioner’s office released him for duty elsewhere in the public service. (7) There are, of course, other officials in the service with the necessary qualifications, but the selection of any one of them for this duty would have involved greater expense to the public and considerable dislocation of departmental work. (8) Mr. Rendell draws a fixed salary of £725 per annum—the same salary as he drew in the High Commissioner’s office prior to transfer.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether he is aware that ticket examiners examine passengers’ tickets en route on the Sea Point line; (2) whether such examinations are made on instructions from the Administration; (3) whether he realises that in the performance of such duties examiners run the risk of injury and possible death in walking along the footboards and stepping across the spaces between coaches while the train is in motion; and (4) whether the Administration pay these men extra remuneration, and agree to pay special accident compensation in consideration of such hazardous occupation; and, if not, whether he will consider the advisability of so doing if the work is necessary?

replied: (1) and (2) The answer is in the affirmative. (3) No risk of injury is run by examiners, unless they disregard instructions which expressly forbid officials to walk on the footboard of a carriage while the train is in motion, for the purpose of examining and collecting tickets. In every case brought to notice in which the regulations in this respect have been departed from, the men have been cautioned, against continuing the practice. (4) See reply to question (3).

asked the Minister of Lands whether he refused to grant to the local rifle club a site for a rifle range on the commonage of Kopjes, and, if so, why?

replied. It is true that permission to grant a site for a rifle range at Kopjes, on the commonage, was justly refused, the reason being that such a range would be a public danger, no suitable site being available.

asked the Minister of Lands: Whether the farm “Lichfield” in the district of Elliot has been surveyed for land settlement purposes as promised by him, and whether it has been allotted for the above purpose, and, if not, why not?

replied: The farm “Lichfield” has been sub-divided into seven portions and the Land Board for the Cape area has recommended that the sub-divisions be gazetted for disposal in terms of the Land Settlement Act, 1912. This will be done almost immediately, the delay being caused owing to the non-receipt of inspection reports submitted by the surveyor.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: Whether it is the case that stewards on the saloon dining cars have received instructions no longer to buy eggs and butter en route, but to take all their supplies from the contractors; and whether contractors sometimes supply imported butter and eggs?

replied: (1) Chief stewards have never Keen allowed to purchase butter en route. They were at one time authorised to purchase eggs, but this authority has been withdrawn as it was found (1) that the quality of the eggs so obtained was frequently unsatisfactory; (2) that deliveries were irregular, supplies not being obtainable at times, and (3) that this arrangement made it impossible to regulate the purchases at the replenishing depots. (2) There is a proviso in all contracts that supplies of perishable articles such as butter, eggs, etc., must be of South African production, and the Administration has no reason to suppose that the contracts are violated. Any supplier or contractor known to substitute imported for Colonial commodities would at once be taken off the list of contractors for railway supplies. It is essential for the efficient working of the dining-car service, that all dining-cars should leave their replenishing centres fully stocked with perishable commodities. The dining-car officials do not know until on the journey what volume of business they may have to cater for or with what contingencies they may have to contend, and the supplies available en route are too irregular to be depended upon.

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) How many officers have been appointed to the charge of reformatories and industrial schools since the passing of the Prisons Act, No. 13 of 1911; and (2) how many of those officers were previously in the service of the Prisons Department?

replied: (1) Eleven; (2) eight.

had given notice to ask the Minister of Education whether he will lay upon the Table of this House a return showing the names and salaries of all teachers, drawing salaries of £200 and over, appointed during the past two years in the Cape Province with the sanction of the Education Department, and who had not had more than one year’s experience at the date of appointment.

The question was withdrawn.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) Whether he is aware that section 83 of the Railways and Harbours Service Act, 1912, refers specifically to “Cape Fixed Establishment Servants.” and whether this phrase denotes servants of the South African Railways who were, or would have been entitled to be, on the fixed establishment of the Cape service on or after the date of Union, but were not contributors to the Pension Fund; (2) if so, whether the rights of such servants are guaranteed by section 83 of the said Act equally with the rights of Cape fixed establishment servants who were contributors to the Pension Fund, and whether one of these rights is that of being exempt from the operation of section 3 of the said Act; (3) whether sections 34 and 35 of the Cane Act No. 32 of 1895 did not and do not apply to all Cape fixed establishment servants whether they were contributors to the Pension Fund or not; and if so, (4) whether he will give instructions that the rights of Cape fixed establishment servants who are now servants of the South African Railways (whether they were or were not contributors to the Pension Fund) to have their services dispensed with only in accordance with the provisions of sections 34 and 35 of the Cape Act No. 32 of 1895 and not to be retrenched under section 3 of Act No. 28 of 1912, shall in future be strictly observed by the Administration?

replied: (1) The Administration is aware that section 83 of the Railways and Harbours Service Act refers to Cape fixed establishment servants, and that according to the definition of this phrase in the Act it denotes any officer or employee, irrespective of whether he is a contributor or non-contributor, who was at the date of Union on the fixed establishment, or who would subsequent to that date have become entitled to be placed on the fixed establishment if Union had not been established. (2) Any rights of non-contributors on the fixed establishment, which existed at the date of Union, are safeguarded equally with those of contributors, but as there is no specific provision in the Cape Act, 32 of 1895, applicable to the retrenchment of a non-contributor who is on the fixed establishment, section 3 of Act 28 of 1912 is the only provision that can be applied. The latter section does not specially exempt Cape fixed establishment servants from its operation, but where, as in the case of contributors, there are provisions governing their retirement in Acts in force at the date of Union, they are entitled, as of right, to be dealt with in terms of such Acts, and section 83 permits of this course being followed, but where no such provision exists in Acts in force at date of Union, the terms of the present Act, 28 of 1912, are applied. Cape fixed servants, who are non-contributors, are, therefore, not exempt from the operation of section 3 of the 1912 Act. (3) Sections 34 and 35 of Cape Act, 32 of 1895, are purely pension clauses, and set forth (a) the special terms that may be granted in the event of a servant being retired through abolition of office, and (b) the procedure to be followed in placing servants on temporary pension through physical or other inefficiency or re-organisation. Whilst these clauses do refer to fixed establishment servants, it is quite clear they can only refer to such servants as are contributors to the Pension Fund, as section 27 of the same Act makes it illegal for any pension or gratuity to be granted under the provisions of the said Act to any person who has not, contributed to the Civil Service Pension Fund. (4) For the reasons given in the replies to the preceding questions, the Administration is unable to give instructions for Cape “fixed” non-contributors to be dealt with under sections 34 and 35 of Cape Act 32 of 1895. In the Cape service prior to Union, allowances under the sections quoted were not paid to non-contributors on retrenchment.

asked the Minister of Mines: (1) What is the nature of the influence brought to bear by the department upon the directorates of the various gold mines which have been closed down upon the Witwatersrand; (2) whether he will place all correspondence connected therewith on the Table of this House; (3) whether there are any indications of such pressure being successful in causing the re-opening of any or all of these mines in the near future; and (4) whether, in the event of the controllers of the said mines persisting in their policy of keeping these mines closed, he will consider the advisability of State resumption and working the same departmentally?

replied: (1) (2) and (3) No pressure is at present being exercised upon the directorate of any gold-mining companies on the Witwatersrand which have closed down work. All the companies which have closed down, with one exception, have been obliged to do so for want of funds. It is understood that all the companies referred to are doing their best to raise the necessary money. (4) It is not considered that the Government would at present be justified in applying the provisions of section 127 of the Gold Law, but the progress of the companies is being watched, and circumstances might arise under which the provisions of section 127 would require to be put in force.

pointed out that the second part of the question asked that certain correspondence be laid on the Table.

The hon. member must ask the question.

Well, I will ask the Minister to lay the correspondence on the Table. Will the Minister do so?

I will look into the matter. I thought that the general reply would be satisfactory.

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) Whether there has recently been an unusual number of escapes from the Pretoria Gaol; (2) if so, whether the Department of Prisons has taken any steps to investigate the reasons for these escapes; (3) if so, what has been the nature of these investigations; and (4) if any report has been made to the department on the subject by any official charged with the duty of making investigations, whether he is prepared to lay the report or reports on the Table of this House?

replied: (1) No escape has taken place from the Pretoria Gaol since the building of that institution. If the hon. member refers to the Central Prison, an escape took place from that institution on the 16th February last, the last previous escape from inside the walls of that institution having taken place in 1908. All three prisoners concerned in the last escape have been recaptured. (2) and (31 An inquiry was duly held, under Prison Regulation 22, as to the circumstances of the escape on the 16th February last by the Magistrate of Pretoria, who reported on the 14th ult. to the department. (4) As the matter is still sub-judice, the trial of certain warders concerned being still pending, I am not prepared to lay the report on the Table of the House. I shall notify the hon. member when the matter has been judicially disposed of.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours: (1) What repairs have been decided upon to the following bridges upon the North Coast line in Natal which were recently damaged by flood: (a) the Umhloti bridge at Verulam, (b) the Umvoti bridge, (c) the Amatikulu bridge, (d) the Umhlatuzi bridge; (2) which of these repairs have actually commenced; (3) in view of the sugar milling season, which will commence in about a month’s time, what temporary arrangements are to be made to cope with the increased traffic; (4) will it be possible by that time to increase the maximum load of ten tons net at present allowed to cross the Umhloti bridge, and to resume the running of the ordinary engines; and (5) will the management treat the matter as one of special urgency seeing that the sugar and other industries will be badly crippled in the meantime?

replied: (1) (a) Umhloti bridge: This bridge will have to be strengthened as the result of damage by recent floods, (b) Umvoti bridge: As a temporary measure the line is being deviated and a low level bridge erected. The bridge originally consisted of 21 spans of 40 feet, three of which were washed away. In reerecting the bridge it is proposed to increase the channel spans to six of 60 feet, (c) Amatikulu bridge: This bridge will be temporarily repaired by pile trestling. The bridge originally consisted of eight spans of 30 feet and one of 44 feet. The 44 feet span and five of the eight 30 feet spans were carried away. A new bridge will have to be erected, and it is proposed to raise it 7 feet, (d) The Umhlatuzi bridge: The line will be deviated and a low level bridge erected, as a temporary expedient. This bridge originally consisted of 18 spans of 30 feet, 14 of which were carried away. A new bridge will have to be erected. It is proposed to raise the bridge 5 feet and to increase the channel spans to four of 60 feet. (2) The temporary repair work on these bridges has been commenced, except at Umhlatuzi. (3) and (4) The temporary arrangements proposed in connection with the repairing of the bridges have already been outlined. Work is proceeding satisfactorily on the Umvoti bridge, and it is anticipated that within the next fortnight the temporary bridge will be completed for the passage of trains. It is also expected that before the sugar cane season the Umhloti bridge will have been sufficiently strengthened to carry the ordinary engines. This will admit of traffic being worked throughout to Amatikulu, where the repair work has been commenced, and should be completed within a month from date. Every effort is being made to complete the Umhlatuzi bridge by the end of May, in order, as far as possible, to meet the requirements of the sugar cane industry, and provided the weather conditions remain favourable it is hoped to accomplish the object in view. (5) The reply to this question is in the affirmative. The All-ministration is doing everything in its power to expedite the bridge repairs and to so advance matters as to admit of normal working being resumed at the earliest practicable date. A large quantity of general traffic, sugar and tea, is already being handled under existing conditions, the daily average being about 68 tons.

asked the Minister of Agriculture: (1) Whether it is a fact that Sheep Inspector Berry, of the Barkly West district, was suspended on the 22nd of February; (2) whether Inspector Berry was promised a magisterial enquiry into the charge against him: (3) whether such enquiry has been held and what was the result; and (4) if such enquiry has not yet been held, what is the cause of the delay?

replied: The Prime Minister has called for this information and it will be given to the hon. member as soon as it is received.

asked the Minister of Justice: (1) Whether it is a fact (a) that there has for some time past been, and still is, a shortage in the number of Judges available for sitting in the Provincial Division of the Supreme Court at Cape Town, and (b) that a considerable number of trial cases have consequently fallen in arrear; and (2) when will he take steps to appoint a sufficient number of Judges to relieve the situation?

replied: I don’t exactly know what the hon. member means by a shortage.

Too few.

The ordinary number of judges assigned to the Cape Court have not been present in Cape Town for some considerable time past. That is largely owing to the fact that Mr. Justice Laurence was on a Commission. The hon. member states that a considerable number of trial cases have fallen in arrears. I don’t know whether they were only trial cases. I believe they were mostly appeals from Magistrates’ Courts; but a considerable amount of work which should be dealt with by the Judges has fallen in arrears. In regard to the second portion of the question, Mr. Justice Kotze, until recently Judge-President of the Eastern Districts Court, has been appointed in succession to Mr. Justice Laurence, and I hope the number of Judges now appointed, and those already in Cape Town, will be sufficient to cope with the very considerable amount of work to be done by the Cape Division of the Supreme Court. I may add that Mr. Justice Lange, who has always been ready to do other work besides his own, has come down from Kimberley to help us.

said he had been asked a question on February 25 by Mr. Fawcus (Umlazi): It is not my intention to remove the Assistant Magistrate’s Court from Pine Town to South Coast Junction.

said that in regard to the question asked by the hon. member for Marico (General Lemmer), on February 18: A provisional reply was given to the hon. member’s question on that date. I now give the further reply promised as follows: (1) (a) number of boreholes drilled since Union, 1,652; (b) number of boreholes drilled since Union on Crown lands, 185, cost £36,000; private lands under the old regulations, private lands under the new regulations. 1,240, cost £55,000 and £31,000; Government institutions, 227, cost £47,000; total. 1,652, cost £169,000. (2) Accounts rendered in connection with boring: Under the old tariff and regulations, £22,000; under the new tariff and regulations, £26,000; total. £48,000. The cost of boring under the new regulations (£31,000) should be credited with approximately £2,000, being the value of stores in hand with drills in the field, which reduces that item to £29,000, or a loss of approximately £3,000 on the working under the new regulations. The above figures comprise drilling executed from 1st June, 1910, to 31st March, 1913, and are approximate only as the work and costs for the present month have had to be averaged.

said that some days ago Dr. J. Hewat (Woodstock) asked: What amount has been paid by the Government during the past twelve months for clothing and boots made outside of South Africa for the public service, including railway employees?

The answer was: I find that it is not possible, with the information at our disposal, to prepare a reliable statement on the lines asked for by the hon. member. Where contracts are placed within the Union, departments have no means of estimating what portion of the supplies is imported from oversea or how much is of local origin.

said, before the notices of motion were dealt with, he would like to put a question to the Minister of Railways and Harbours. He would like to know if the Minister had seen a report in the papers, purporting to come from the secretary of the Amalgamated Society of Railway Engineers, stating that there was a likelihood, unfortunately, of a strike on the railway, which statement was contradicted by the secretary of the Railway and Harbours Servants’ Association. Had the Minister any information to give the House regarding that?

said perhaps it might be just as well to state what, so far as he was aware, was the true state of affairs. (Cheers.) His attention had been drawn from time to time to statements—this was not the first statement—made by the person referred to by the hon. member for Fort Beaufort, and other representatives of this same Trades Union, to the effect that a strike of railway employees in South Africa was imminent. That statement had been made from time to time within the last six months.

The last two years.

Particularly within the last six months. Continuing, he said that, although one did not wish by any means to wilfully decline facts if those facts existed, he thought it was right to give the House and the country to know that his information was that those threats were not at all likely to be carried out. While this Trades Union had given effect to this statement from time to time, it appeared to be clear that the co-operation which was required for such a purpose was not being obtained, and he was happy to say that, taking this particular statement made by Mr. Kendall, that owing to the new regulations the men were being forced to strike, and they had made arrangements with the other society, the Railways and Harbours Servants’ Association, who were co-operating with them, and that within a certain time certain events would occur, he was happy to say that his information was that there was no such arrangement at all. The secretary of the Harbour and Railway Servants’ Association had stated that his society did not approve of this proposal, and they were not anxious to strike at all. Further, his information was that the railway staffs throughout the Union, as a body, were taking no part in this. Further, the method of dealing with the men at first hand, encouraging them to come in and see the Minister, was having happy results. Quite recently deputations had interviewed the Minister, and he might say that practically in every case—in nine-tenths of the cases—satisfaction had been given. At the present moment there was a deputation of railway servants from Natal, who had come down to Cape Town to interview the Minister, and he had no doubt the result of their interview would be as satisfactory as the others had been. So he did not think they need be alarmed by these threats. (Cheers.)

asked whether the Minister would take steps to have deputations from every centre of the Union?

said that, as far as he could understand the question, he really could not understand the necessity for it.

moved: That the Select Committee on Administration of Estates Bill consist of fourteen members, and that Messrs. King and P. G. Marais be members of the committee.

complained that although Natal had two members on the committee, the Free State had only one. Why were two extra members from the Cape nominated, and none for the Free State?

said that he was included in the two Natal members on the committee, but as he was Chairman of the committee that would leave only one Natal member on the committee.

The motion was carried.

moved: That the petition from G. C. Wakeford and 3,578 others, residents in the districts of Barkly West and Kimberley, praying for the construction of a line of railway from Kimberley to Kuruman, via Barkly West, or for other relief, presented to this House on the 18th March, 1913, be referred to the Government for consideration and report.

The pointed out that Government did not usually report on these questions.

maintained that the motion was worded in the usual form.

The motion was agreed to.

moved: That the House go into committee to consider the South African Police Regulations framed under the Police Act No. 14 of 1912, published in a "Gazette Extraordinary” of the 28th February, 1913, and presented to this House on the 13th March, 1913. The mover said that every opportunity should be given for the fullest and freest discussion of the regulations. Since he tabled the original motion, he had had a full and free discussion with Col. Truter, the Commissioner of Police, who had given him every information and advice, and in many respects Col. Truter satisfied him that many of the objections he (Mr. Nathan) originally tabled should fall to the ground, therefore he did not propose to deal with minor matters, but with only one or two matters of importance. It must not be forgotten that the lives and property of the whole of the citizens were in the hands of the police, who were as important a body as the Defence Force was. When the Bill was before the House last year, efforts were made to see that the rights of the men already in the Force should be safeguarded. He was under the impression that the rights which had then accrued, and would accrue under existing arrangements, would not be disturbed, but when the regulations came out it was discovered that the pay conditions were altered, the position of the Transvaal men in particular being thereby considerably damaged. The hon. member gave the case of a constable of the Transvaal Police, who six years ago commenced at 7s. per day, his maximum being 9s., and was now earning 8s. a day, but when the new conditions came in his maximum rate of pay was limited to 7s. 6d. a day, thus through Union the constable had been deprived of his right of rising to 9s. a day. He (Mr. Nathan) had understood the then Minister in charge of the Bill to say that these men’s rights would be in no way impaired. He wished to know if the regulations could be so amended as to restore to the men the rights they were entitled to. What was wanted was a satisfied Force. It was quite easy for Government to shield itself behind the Act of Parliament and say it was not going to give the men more than it was absolutely obliged to. One would infer from section 4 of the Act of 1912, that the men would not be affected so far as their pay was concerned. He hoped the Minister would go into the matter and see if it were possible to meet the wishes of the men who were injuriously affected under the Act.

seconded the motion.

said he thought the country was indebted to the hon. member for having brought the matter forward. The regulations were never brought before the House, but only laid on the Table, and thus it was impracticable for many hon. members to make themselves fully acquainted with the regulations. Such regulations should be considered as part of the business of the House, and they could be improved upon or otherwise—generally otherwise. Particularly he would like to refer to the clause dealing with the remuneration of the police. His hon. friend had stated that the police force were in a better position than they were before. Did his hon. friend concern himself with the class of pay of these Civil Servants—5s. per day? Surely the hon. member must be aware that such work could not be done for such a rate of remuneration. Here were men whom they looked to to protect the lives and property of the citizens of the country—he was not much concerned with the property of the citizens of the country, because property-owners were quite able to protect themselves. (HON. MEMBERS: Oh! Oh!) Hon. members might “Oh, oh,” as much as they liked, but did they realise that a policeman only got 2s. per diem allowance, bringing his money up to 7s. per diem? If he was a married man he had 9s. 6d. a day to live upon. How many hon. members were aware what these men had to pay for rent on the Witwatersrand? Could anyone get a house for anything less than £7 a month? That was, a house fit to live in. (An HON. MEMBER: Yes.) He heard an hon. member say “Yes.” Well, all he would say was this, let the hon. member go up and live in such a house. (Labour cheers.) If any hon. member said that a man could live decently and respectably on less than £7 a month, then all he would say was that the hon. member should be ashamed of making such a statement. What they wanted to do was to force upon members of the House the duty of inquiring into this matter. (Cheers.)

said the hon. member was suggesting additional expenditure, and yet he was one of those who were never tired of attacking the Government for extravagance, costly expenditure, and wasteful use of money. He was simply speaking for the purpose of keeping a certain class of persons going at Government expense. The extraordinary part was that as regarded the police themselves, he found no cause for complaint.

Except the pay.

Yes; but it happened that it was outside the hon. member’s jurisdiction to move that the pay be increased. The moment that he went into the motion that this additional expenditure should be increased, the whole thing fell to the ground. He hoped that the House would not accept the motion. They were told that these people were quite satisfied. It was surely a most unusual thing for a private member to ask that a general body of civil servants should have increased pay. Formerly their police had to provide their own horses on 5s. a day, which meant that, after they joined the service, they were nearly two years in paying for their horses. According to these regulations the Government provided horses, and, not only that, but they also provided forage and equipment, and free uniforms. What was more, in Cape Colony, they had never had a married allowance, and now such an allowance was given to them.

Somerset said the regulations had been laid on the Table together with the Bill. They had been examined by the Select Committee, the Bill had been amended accordingly, and the police were satisfied with the new Bill. Many improvements had been introduced into it. Formerly the policeman had to provide himself with his own horse, but now it was supplied to him by the Government. The police were also supplied with uniforms, and obtained other privileges, and on the whole the police force was well satisfied with the provisions of the Bill.

said he thought the Minister was a little hard on his hon. friend (Mr. Nathan), because it seemed to him that he had brought forward what he thought was a legitimate subject for investigation. The present Minister was not in charge of the Police Bill at the time it was introduced. If he had been in charge, he would have remembered that it was distinctly laid down in Select Committee that no man when the Bill came into force should receive less remuneration either in regard to pay or allowances, than he was getting before the Bill came into force. There was no doubt that some of the men under the new Act would get in future less than it was possible they would have got if the old system had been continued, and if they had gone on under the old system. The understanding had not been strictly adhered to in one or two individual cases. An assurance had been given by the Commissioner of Police, who, he was bound to say, had always in this matter been ready to show himself extremely reasonable, and all his hon. friend wanted was to get an assurance from the Minister that the undertaking that no man should receive less remuneration under the new Act than he was getting before should be strictly observed.

said it was quite useless for the hon. member opposite (Mr. Vosloo) to say that the police were contented. He had in his possession a long document, which he did not propose to refer to now, because it seemed to him that it referred entirely to matters of administration, and he should take the opportunity of putting the matter before Col. Truter. The present Minister could, however, render the police a little service. Reference had been made to their uniforms. Unless the police turned out smartly they were liable to be fined. The buttons supplied on the uniforms to-day were such rubbish that one hour after these buttons had been polished they became oxydised and had to be polished up again. The police had applied to Pretoria for leave to take off these buttons and put on fresh ones at their own expense, but this had been refused. The hon. member opposite had said that the police started at 6s. per day, whereas they started at 5s. per day.

Five shillings, but they get privileges with it.

The privileges of the police are such that I would not have them at any price, and I am not over-particular. (Laughter.)

said that the hon. member for Somerset was not correct in the statements he had made. The pay commencing was only 5s. a day. As to the statement that these regulations were dealt with last year in conjunction with the Bill, the most they could say was that they were laid on the Table. With regard to the question of pay, it was distinctly provided that the matter should be dealt with by Parliament during this session (section 10). He admitted that it was not competent for him to move for an increase, but surely the Government were not so devoid of all sense of justice that they would not consider the case of these men, when it was distinctly stated that they should have their rights safeguarded by this particular law. He was disappointed with the Minister. He had always looked upon him as a paragon of justice. The Minister had said that it was not in his (Mr. Nathan’s) power to move for increased expenditure, and he also said that he had tried to popularise himself with certain people because there was a possibility of an election. He hoped he would never descend so low as that. He asked the Minister to give him an assurance that those men who were in the force on April 1, and who would, but for the Act, have received increased pay, should not be damnified by the coming into operation of the Act.

The motion was then put and the Ayes were declared to have it.

called for a division, which was taken, with the following result:

Ayes—34.

Andrews, William Henry

Berry, William Bisset

Fawcus, Alfred

Boydell, Thomas

Chaplin, Francis Drummond Percy

Creswell, Frederic Hugh Page

Crewe, Charles Preston

Duncan, Patrick

Fawcus, Alfred

Haggar, Charles Henry

Harris, David

Henwood, Charlie

Hunter, David

Jagger, John William

King, John Gavin

Macaulay, Donald

MacNeillie, James Campbell

Madeley, Walter Bayley

Meyler, Hugh Mowbray

Oliver, Henry Alfred

Quinn, John William

Robinson, Charles Phineas

Rockey, Willie

Runciman, William

Sampson, Henry William

Schreiner, Theophilus Lyndall

Searle, James

Smartt, Thomas William

Struben, Charles Frederick

William Van der Riet, Frederick John Werndly

Walton, Edgar Harris

Watkins, Arnold Hirst

E. Nathan and H. A. Wyndham, tellers.

Noes—65.

Alberts, Johannes Joachim

Becker, Heinrich Christian

Bezuidenhout, Willem Wouter Jacobus J.

Bosman, Hendrik Johannes

Botha, Louis

Brain, Thomas Phillip

Burton, Henry

Clayton, Walter Frederick

Cronje, Frederik Reinhardt

Cullinan, Thomas Major

Currey, Henry Latham

De Jager, Andries Lourens

De Waal, Hendrik

Du Toit, Gert Johan Wilhelm

Fichardt, Charles Gustav

Fischer, Abraham

Fremantle, Henry Eardley Stephen

Geldenhuys, Lourens

Graaff, David Pieter de Villiers

Griffin, William Henry

Grobler, Evert Nicolaas

Grobler, Pieter Gert Wessel

Heatlie, Charles Beeton

Joubert, Christiaan Johannes Jacobus

Joubert, Jozua Adriaan

Keyter, Jan Gerhard

Kuhn. Pieter Gysbert

Lemmer, Lodewyk Arnoldus Slabbert

Leuchars, George

Maasdorp, Gysbert Henry

Malan, Francois Stephanus

Marais, Johannes Henoch

Marais, Pieter Gerhardus

Meyer, Izaak Johannes

Myburgh, Marthinus Wilhelmus

Neethling, Andrew Murray

Neser, Johannes Adriaan

Nicholson, Richard Granville

Oosthuisen, Ockert Almero

Orr. Thomas

Rademeyer, Jacobus Michael

Sauer, Jacobus Wilhelmus

Schoeman, Johannes Hendrik

Serfontein, Hendrik Philippus

Smuts, Jan Christiaan

Steyl. Johannes Petrus Gerhardus

Steytler, George Louis

Theron, Hendrick Schalk

Theron, Petrus Jacobus George

Van der Merwe, Johannes Adolph P.

Van der Walt, Jacobus

Van Eeden, Jacobus Willem.

Van Heerden, Hercules Christian

Van Niekerk, Christian Andries

Venter, Jan Abraham

Vermaas, Hendrik Cornelius Wilhelmus

Vintcent, Alwyn Ignatius

Vosloo, Johannes Arnoldus

Watermeyer. Egidius Benedictus

Watt, Thomas

Wessels, Daniel Hendrick Willem

Wilcocks, Carl Theodorus Muller

Wiltshire, Henry

C. Joel Krige and H. Mentz, tellers.

The motion was accordingly negatived.

moved: That the petition from the Rev. A. I. Steytler and others, ministers of religion of the Province of the Cape of Good Hope, drawing attention to the necessity for further State aid for the education of the coloured people, as well as for vocational education, schools for defectives, and the training and proper payment of teachers, and praying that the House may take their case into favourable consideration, and grant such relief as it may deem fit, presented to this House on the 31st March, 1913, be referred to a Select Committee for inquiry and report, with power to take evidence and call for papers. The right hon.. member said that since he had put his motion on the paper, his attention had been drawn to the fact that the matter was one which fell under the Provincial Council; but the petition had been allowed to be presented to that House, and received by that House, and so it seemed awkward that the House could not deal with that matter. He would ask the ruling of the Speaker on the subject.

The House is perfectly competent to deal with this question, and not only to receive the petition, but to deal with it.

said he would then like to give his reasons for moving that motion. He did not think that an important petition like that, which dealt with a matter of the greatest moment to the community, and a petition so very influentially signed, should be treated with such scant courtesy as to be presented to the House and then treated in the ordinary manner. It was patent to all of them that in neglecting the education of the coloured children they were building up what might be dangerous to them in the future. A large number of the children growing up in the towns might become a pest and danger to society. There was the question of vocational education, which should be examined. Education cost them a great deal of money he was afraid, and it was not a question of the money they gave, disproportionate as it was to their population and their resources, but it was what they got for it, and whether they got value for it. In that connection there were institutions in the country which were models. There was that technical institute, the School of Mines on the Rand, which was doing extremely good work, and turning out people who were able to become useful members of society, who were able to take their place, and do what they particularly wanted people of the country to do—that was, if labour fell short in the country, to go to other countries and obtain work there on the same level as others. These people showed marked intelligence and ability in the vocations which they took up. (Hear, hear.) He was glad to hear that the School of Mines was now filling up, and a class of miners turned out there who were of extreme use to the country. In Durban they had an institution which provided continuation classes for a large number of people. The Government could not do everything. He would not say that the Government could not do anything, because it could do something; but the people looked too much to the Government to do everything for them. In Durban private enterprise and private impulse supported these things, and he thought they owed their success largely to that. Proceeding, the right hon. member said that the whole subject demanded inquiry, and he was glad that they would go into it. Again, he was in the unfortunate position that he could not go on the committee himself, being on two important committees already. He hoped that the House would excuse him. He had moved in the matter because he considered the matter of such importance that such a petition should not be passed by without any notice being taken by that House. The matter should be properly examined, and should not be allowed to go by.

seconded the motion.

said he rose for the purpose of saying that the Government would have no objection to such a committee or inquiry, but seeing that it was one of those things specifically left to the Administration of the Province, it was considered that the House should not interfere, though not on the ground that it had not the right to do so. He did not think that they would be creating a wise precedent in interfering with the rights of the Provincial Council. He would also point out that as this matter only dealt with one Province, that was another reason why he did not think they should interfere. If Parliament, found, however, that these matters were being neglected, or that the money voted by Parliament was not being properly expended, and a good case was made out for interference, then he thought the House could interfere.

feared that if a precedent was laid down in this matter, so that the Cape Provincial Council would be interfered with, that same practice might be extended to the other Provinces. He thought that if they took the work out of the hands of the Provincial Councils and gave that work to this House, they imposed a burden on this House which it could not possibly bear. What he did not like about the motion was that to a certain extent it made certain class distinctions, because it practically said that in educational respects no development was allowed to the coloured people. That was not so, he contended. Statistics showed that the education of the coloured people in the Cape stood on a high basis, as a matter of fact on a higher basis than that of the white people. The effect of the adoption of the motion would be to lay it down as their opinion that the education of the coloured people in the Cape stood on a low basis. In conclusion, he moved an amendment, the effect of which would be to refer the matter, not to a Select Committee, but to the Cape Provincial Council.

seconded the amendment.

said there seemed to be a good deal of misunderstanding with regard to this matter. He did not see what the petition had to do with the Provincial Council; he thought it had to do entirely with that House. It bore on the Financial Relations Bill, and that was the whole of the prayer of the petitioners. The petitioners required some amendment of the Financial Relations Bill, and, of course, it was outside the province of the Provincial Council to alter that measure. The use of money granted after once it had been voted had to do with the Provincial Council, and, he did not see how the House could interfere in that respect. The whole point of the petition was that provision should be made in the Financial Relations Bill, and that was a matter that could only be attended to by that House. He pointed out to the hon. member for Boshof that the petition called attention to the serious state of affairs with regard to the churches and coloured education in the Cape Province. At the present time the education of coloured children in the Cape Province cost the churches, according to this petition. £25,000 a year. This money was paid out of the church funds, and was exclusive of the cost of the buildings and the cost of maintenance of those buildings. The point was that in the Financial Relations Bill no account was taken of this considerable sum of money. In regard to ordinary schools, suppose a thousand pounds was expended and £500 was provided by the Provincial Council and £500 by the School Board out of rates and fees, the Union would pay £500. In the schools mentioned in the petition, if £500 were provided by the Provincial Councils and £500 by the churches and fees, the Union would only pay £250, as the Government did not take into consideration the money paid by the churches, or school fees paid by coloured parents. He suggested to the hon. member for Boshof that the matter should be considered in connection with the Financial Relations Bill, and then if a similar state of affairs existed in any of the other Provinces, these cases could be brought before the House. He thought the case deserved serious consideration, especially, as his right hon.. friend had said, in view of the great weight of the petitioners, who represented practically all the Christian churches of the country. Dealing with local taxation, the speaker said that the tendency at present was to throw the whole burden of finance on the central authority, and this was a tendency which he deplored. A point with which he would like to deal was the education of defective children, and he thought they should be taken into consideration.

That’s a matter for the Provincial Council.

said, as the petitioners rightly pointed out, the Financial Relations Bill did not make provision, and, of course, unless permission was granted in that Bill the Provincial Council could not do anything. It was a question that deserved serious consideration at the hands of the House. In the Cape Province they had no institutions that could deal with these children. With regard to the blind and the deaf and the dumb, the Dutch Reformed Church had two institutions at Worcester, while the Roman Catholic Church had one at Cape Town. These institutions were doing admirable work, but up to the present there had been no means of dealing satisfactorily with other defective children. At the present time, the Provincial Council were not in a position to do anything. He agreed with his right hon. friend in the suggestion to the House that when the House had a petition dealing with this matter, which only this House was capable of dealing with, presented to it by the heads of all the great Christian churches in this country, the least they could do was to refer it to a Select Committee. This was a pressing matter so far as the Financial Relations Bill was concerned, and if this question was to be taken into consideration, it was only a Select Committee or the Government itself that could deal with it. It was impossible to deal with it on the floor of the House. Surely an injustice was being done the coloured people and the children and the churches if this matter was not dealt with. He hoped the Government would not oppose the proposal of his right hon. friend.

said there could be no question that the matters referred to in the petition were of great moment, not only in the Cape Province, but in Natal and the other parts of the Union. But whether it was desirable to send this petition to a Select Committee was another matter. So far as it concerned vocational education and technical education he, for one, would be sorry to see those matters referred to a Select Committee. He had been connected with the Durban Technical Institute since its inception, and it was true it had depended largely on private contributions. He would like to take this opportunity of expressing the obligations they were under to the present Minister of Education for the extremely liberal way in which he had always responded to their requests, and the interest he had taken in the institute. Why he thought it would be a mistake at this juncture to send the questions of vocational and technical education to the Select Committee, was that quite recently the Minister had appointed a very effective and very important committee to advise him on those subjects. If he would extend the usefulness of that committee by appointing on it gentlemen who had a knowledge of technical education, a great deal more good would be done than if they sent those matters to a Select Committee. There were other matters in the petition such as native education and the education of cripples. It seemed to him those were matters that could be better dealt with by a Commission than by a Select Committee. If they sent those matters to a Select Committee it might give rise to complaints from the Provincial Councils that they were usurping some of their functions.

who was to a great extent inaudible, remarked that a Select Committee would be able to collect evidence. He thought that anyone who had been living in this part of the country must know that there was a large amount of dissatisfaction with regard to the status of education amongst the coloured people. He took it the petition did not refer to native education, though in the Transvaal and the Free State "coloured” people included natives as well; but that it meant, in the petition, the coloured people as understood in the Cape Province. Everyone must realise that there was some need for extra effort in regard to the education of coloured people. Despite what might to some seem the somewhat roseate report of the Superintendent of Education of the Cape regarding the number of coloured children being educated, there were large numbers of them who were not being educated. He had no doubt that the mission people who had been the instruments in the past of carrying on the work of education among the coloured people felt that the question was becoming almost too heavy for them and some more help was needed than they had received in the past. The Cape Education Act, passed in 1904, distinctly left the coloured people out of account to a large extent as far as compulsory education is concerned. Regarding vocational education, in the old days it was thought a very useful thing to train up the coloured people to some vocation, but nowadays, he regretted to say, the doctrine was being preached by certain sections that they should remain hewers of wood and drawers of water. He did not think there was the same necessity in the other Provinces as in the Cape, but there was a necessity in the other Provinces of doing more in regard to this matter than they had hitherto done.

said that stress had been laid by the hon. member for Uitenhage, amongst others, on the need of teaching and educating defective children. They all agreed to that, but at the same time they ought not only to consider how to mitigate some of the difficulties under which such children laboured, but also to find the causes. According to the statement of a member of the Witwatersrand Central School Board, there were in one school, out of 230 children, 67 who seldom, if ever, had a hot meal, and many of them subsisted entirely on coffee and bread. He said that many of them, too, never had any breakfast before coming to school in the morning. That was in one school, and they might presume that in many of the schools on the Witwatersrand that kind of thing happened. They might presume also that it happened also in Cape Colony in the poorer districts, not only amongst the coloured, but amongst the white also. To his mind it was idle that they should talk about educating defective children when many of them were defective owing to starvation of themselves or their parents before them.

Another matter which had been suggested was that the churches should be subsidised in their educational efforts. He had nothing whatever against the work that had been done by the various denominational bodies in that direction, but if private enterprise education concerns had proved successful, where was the need of coming to the House for assistance? He understood the hon. member for Tembuland to say that they were going to educate the coloured children; then let them be honest about it, and educate them under a School Board. Let them make it a State concern, as in the case of the white children. It was a wrong policy to subsidise denominational bodies in their efforts to promote education. It had not been a success in other countries, and in England it was rapidly being abandoned. State control of schools should supersede those ancient methods of education. He did not doubt that the suggestion would appeal to some hon. gentlemen in the House, for so long as the clerics could keep the children under their control during their youthful days those children were more apt to make willing and docile wage workers for their employers when they grew up. He and his fellow members on the cross-benches were against that.

Mention had been made of the salaries of teachers. The salaries paid to women teachers in Cape Colony, not only in the schools managed by the churches, but by the schools managed by the Government also, were a disgrace to a civilised community. Five pounds a month was in many cases paid to highly educated teachers working in the schools of this colony. (An HON. MEMBER: Nonsense.) It was a fact. He knew more than one personally who were working in the Cape Colony for £5 a month, and had been working for that salary for years. He knew an English lady of culture, a school mistress, who knew four languages, and who had been teaching for years for £5 a month, without any possibility of promotion or increase of salary. Notwithstanding the fact that the hon. member for Victoria West might be against the spending of money, it was a good thing to spend money if something was got for it that was really necessary. How could they possibly hope to get good teachers and to obtain such services as the children were entitled to unless they were prepared to pay for them. That was one of the most important points in the petition. So far he agreed with it, but he did not think that he could support the amendment; the matter should go to a committee, and he hoped that no extension of that policy of placing education in the hands of the churches would be pursued or encouraged in that House. The children were not the children of the church, but of their parents and of the State, and that State had a right to attend to their education and to pay for it. He did not dispute the desirability of training the youth of this country, nor would he confine that training to what were referred to as the “lower orders.” The great dearth of skilled labour in this country had been spoken of, but there was not a dearth of skilled labour. Hon. members must be aware that for every job going for a skilled man there were two or three men willing to fill it. They must be aware also that no boat leaves this country for Australia, or any other country which had an enlightened Government— (laughter)—which did not carry men born in this country and who had to leave it— energetic, pushing men, they were that, or they would not go. (An HON. MEMBER: They are glad to get back.) Some of them were, but not many, continued the hon. member. Skilled men were leaving this country for the simple reason there was no work for them to do. Young farmers also were leaving because they could not get land at a reasonable figure, and if this was such a desirable country for the young artisan or the young farmer, they would not leave it to seek their fortunes in other lands. The root of the matter was that opportunities to exercise their abilities must be found for the men in the country before they hankered too much about educating the coloured people, so that they might compete in our already overflooded market and bring down the price of labour. If that was the object he was unhesitatingly against it.

thought that the matter was one which should be gone into by a Select Committee. He regretted that the hon. members on the cross-benches were always against the coloured people.

We are not.

said that with reference to defective children they had two of those schools in Worcester originally started by the churches for deaf, dumb, and blind. They had grown from the smallest beginnings to what they were to-day. The teachers were devoting their lives to that charitable work without much prospect of advancement. Institutions such as these, doing excellent work, should get more assistance than they at present received. He would support the motion, and hoped the Minister would not maintain the attitude he had so far taken up in the matter.

said he could not support the motion, because it appeared to him that it dealt with matters which did not fall under the jurisdiction of the House. If, however, they wished to touch on the matter of education, they should deal with the whole question, and they should also look at the position of the Transvaal, where numbers of poor white children were still unprovided for, or had to walk for miles in sun or rain in order to reach the school. In some cases they had to sit under the trees where no buildings had been provided. Why, he asked, were private schools not supported? He did not object to education of the coloured people, but white people should have prior opportunities.

said he heartily supported the motion. There was a very great necessity indeed for inquiry into this subject, and unfortunately the Provincial Council was powerless in the matter. Between Cape Town and Kalk Bay there were four or five thousand coloured children of school age who were receiving no education at all. That was a terrible thing to contemplate, and they knew what the result would be—they would become inmates of gaols. Seeing that the coloured people were taxpayers as well as the Europeans, they had a claim on the State for some sort of education. A little led tape should not be allowed to interfere with what was going to be a good thing for South Africa.

said he had not altered his opinion a bit as the result of the discussion, and he thought the petition should form the subject of an inquiry by a Select Committee. He could understand the attitude taken up by the Minister of Education, and it did not in the least offend him. The poor Minister was fallen upon yesterday tooth and nail from both sides of the House, because he wished to have a Select Committee to have his opinion made up for him. Naturally the Minister said, “Once bit, twice shy. If I agree to this, I may be accused of neglecting my duties as a Minister.” But this was quite a different matter. The petition dealt with a question which ought to be taken up. It was not a question of a university and of commencing a building with a chimney—it was a question of commencing the building from the foundations.

It was the duty of the State to see that at, least the foundation was put into a proper condition, so that they could build upon it. The Minister said, “You have the report of the Under Secretary for Education,” but a more meagre, unsatisfactory document emanating from the Minister of Education of the Union—why he (Mr. Merriman) would be ashamed for it to go to any other country.

We have nothing to do with lower education.

You have not actually to carry it out, but you pay for it —(hear, hear)—and surely the people who pay have some right, if not to call the tune, at any rate, to inquire what sort of tune is being played. I should have thought it was one of the first duties of the Minister of Education. I remember discussing this in the Convention, and incidentally mentioned that the Minister of Education should take in hand the matter of education, and have some ideas on the subject.

From the caucus. (Laughter.)

That is an odious name to me. I know nothing about the caucus. You are very unfair to the Minister. Proceeding. Mr. Merriman said it was the duty of the Minister to let them have statistics of the Union. He did not suppose any country spending the money we did on education—two millions—had no statistics showing the amount relatively spent per head so far as concerned the education of the white and coloured children. Surely it was the duty of the Minister to begin to collate these statistics. We spent more money than any country in the world upon education in proportion to our European population.

Per head.

said that his hon. friend who had denounced him so eloquently had asserted that every white child in the Transvaal should have free education. He (Mr. Merriman) was under the impression that white education in the Transvaal was free. In the Transvaal the natives contributed something like £700,000 in taxation, and upon their education, he thought, some beggarly £10,000 was spent. It was right that the white children in the Transvaal should be educated, but whether it was right that the Europeans should take the money to educate their children from the taxes paid by the coloured people, he would leave it to their consciences to settle. If a Select Committee was appointed, and did nothing but bring forward statistics as to the money spent on education, it would do a work of the very greatest value. Continuing, Mr. Merriman said he got frightened when he saw what was going on. Did the Minister know that, whilst they were sitting here quietly, a proposal had been made to introduce religious instruction in schools. Hitherto we had avoided that stumbling-block—(cheers)—and he would have thought that the Minister of Education would have a word to say about that. An hon. member opposite had been very unjust to the leaders of the Church in regard to education in the past. It was their business to teach religion.

A Labour member made a remark which was inaudible in the gallery.

I am not going to listen to Socialistic clap-trap. (Cheers.) When they thought what the Church had done in Scotland—one of the best educated countries in the world—then they had a system of State education that they could well define. Hitherto they had managed very well, but now they were introducing another stumbling block.

said that there was no doubt that an inquiry into the condition of the coloured classes in regard to education was necessary. In travelling over the railways he was struck with the number of nondescript coloured children at the stations begging for coppers. That was a disgraceful state of affairs. He thought that the Provincial Council had already trespassed upon the lines of policy belonging to the House. For instance, they introduced a measure in the morning, and made it into law at 2 o’clock in the afternoon. A more extraordinary method of doing business he never heard of. Surely the question of introducing religion into the schools was a matter that concerned the Parliament of the Union, and not the Provincial Council. He was very glad that the question had been raised now, and he hoped that those who were responsible for it would see that it was settled. They had enough to do with the difficulties of language, and if they were going to add the difficulties of religion, then heaven only knew where they were going to land.

thought that they should look into this matter very carefully before referring it to a Select Committee. He said this for two reasons; the first was that the House seemed to be doing all its work by Select Committees, but the main reason was that these matters fell within the province of the Provincial Council. With regard to the education of natives and coloured people, and the training of teachers, it was very difficult for him to see how they could interfere with the work of the Provincial Councils. They were told that they must deal with it because the Administrator said he had no money to deal with it. He thought that was no argument. This Financial Relations Scheme was going to provide a scheme whereby the Provincial Councils were going to be independent of that House. It was no excuse for them to say, “Yes, that is true. This is our work, but we have no money,” or to say that they could nor educate the natives or coloured people because they had no money. Proceeding, the hon. member said that they ought not at that stage to interfere with a matter which belonged to the Provincial Council, unless some special and definite provision was made. Personally, he believed that the Union Government would eventually have to educate their coloured or native population, or by providing funds for the Provincial Council, apart from those they already received for educational purposes. They could not dissociate the question of native education from their policy of dealing with the natives. They would have to consider the question of leaving these Provincial Councils entrusted with duties they were unable to carry out. A matter that he also wished to refer to was the question of defective children—children who had come into the world without adequate equipment to make their own way in life. To send them to the ordinary schools was useless, because they were unable to hold their own with other children. They could not send them to a lunatic asylum, and unless the parents could make special provision for them they were left upon the streets, and eventually drifted into the ranks of crime. He hoped that some provision would be made for these children, because this was a matter that he thought might easily come within the scope of the Union Government.

stated that if the present Minister of Education was worth his salt he would give them the information they required. He (Mr. Quinn) would probably be told that he was not an expert. He knew that, but the Minister of Education was not an expert, and did not know it. (Laughter, and hear, hear.) In bygone days the Churches did a great deal to keep education alive, but to-day the conditions were altogether different.

He went on to say that those who went about preaching the doctrine that capital and labour were inevitably antagonistic were preaching a miserable and untrue doctrine. (Hear, hear.) If the churches or the School Boards or the nation trained these young people so as to make them “docile and willing workers,” it was a great deal better than that they should receive no education at all. There was another matter raised in the motion in regard to defective children. He thought they must all feel very heartsore when they thought of this question. Throughout the length and breadth of this country very little was done for them. All that this motion committed them to was to get knowledge. He agreed largely with what the hon. member for Georgetown had said, but he thought they should find out where they stood in this matter. Surely they could agree to that. Why the Minister of Education did not agree to it, he did not know. He had told them that it was somebody else’s business. No sound reason had been given why they should not obtain this information if they wanted it. He should vote for the motion, not because he was thereby committing himself to grants of any larger sum of money to any church or any other body, but because he thought he would be voting for the acquisition of a little knowledge which they badly wanted.

supported the amendment, and said that of late they had heard a lot about the poor coloured children and a good many appeals were continually being made on behalf of the coloured children, but nothing was said about the poor white children. If they referred the petition to a Select Committee, they would be stormed with petitions during the following year. They should refer it to the Provincial Council. He could not possibly agree with a motion of that kind.

said he had not meant to intervene in this debate, although, while he heard the right hon. gentleman introducing the motion, some thoughts occurred to him. After what had fallen from the hon. member for Troyeville, he thought there was no harm in putting forward what they did feel in this matter. They concurred in everything that had been said with regard to the desirability of getting information, and they concurred entirely as to the necessity for seeing that the coloured people were given fair-play and given fair-play really. When the right hon. gentleman was talking about the necessity of knowing what their curriculum was, what he (Mr. Creswell) felt was that amongst these people, as amongst all our young people in this country, nothing was more calculated to produce greater social happiness in the future than if instruction in social economics were given to the young of to-day. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member for Troyeville had taken it upon himself to administer a rebuke to him (Mr. Creswell) for having said, up in his own part of the world, that the interests of employers and employees were essentially distinct and opposite. Under present circumstances, he absolutely adhered to that opinion and what he had expressed outside the House he had no hesitation in expressing here. What they (the Labour Party) suggested was that these relations (between the employer and the employed) should be better regulated, and that there should be a fairer deal all round and more security given to those who produced the wealth. He agreed with the hon. member for Troyeville (Mr. Quinn) that they should get all the information they could, but whether a Select Committee was the best means of getting all the information, those of them who had taken part in Select Committees were less and less inclined to think that they were the best means of getting the best information; but, at any rate, some information was obtained which was of some use. He also agreed with the hon. member as to what he had said as to the State being the proper authority to deal with such matters, and not private bodies.

put the question: That the words proposed to be omitted stand part of the motion, which was negatived.

The words were accordingly omitted.

then put the substitution of the words proposed in lieu thereof, which was negatived.

called for a division, but subsequently withdrew.

The motion now is—

Dead. (Laughter.)

The motion has no reference to anything.

moved that the words, “To the Government for consideration ” be inserted.

seconded the further amendment.

This was agreed to.

put the question: That the motion, as amended, be adopted, and declared that the “Ayes ” had it.

called for a division, which was taken, with the following result:

Ayes—68.

Alberts, Johannes Joachim

Alexander, Morris

Andrews, William Henry

Berry, William Bisset

Boydell, Thomas

Brown, Daniel Maclaren

Burton, Henry

Chaplin, Francis Drummond Percy

Clayton, Walter Frederick

Cronje, Frederik Reinhardt

Cullinan, Thomas Major

Currey, Henry Latham

De Jager, Andries Lourens

Duncan, Patrick

Du Toit, Gert Johan Wilhelm

Fawcus, Alfred

Fischer, Abraham

Fremantle, Henry Eardley Stephen

Graaff, David Pieter de Villiers

Grobler, Pieter Gert Wessel

Haggar, Charles Henry

Harris, David

Heatlie, Charles Beeton

Henwood, Charlie

Hewat, John

Hunter, David

Jagger, John William

Joubert, Christiaan Johannes Jacobus

Keyter, Jan Gerhard

Kuhn, Pieter Gysbert

Lemmer, Lodewyk Arnoldus Slabbert

Leuchars, George

Louw, George Albertyn

Maasdorp, Gysbert Henry

Madeley, Walter Bayley

Malan, Francois Stephanus

Marais, Johannes Henoch

Merriman, John Xavier

Meyer, Izaak Johannes

Meyler, Hugh Mowbray

Oliver, Henry Alfred

Oosthuisen, Ockert Almero

Orr, Thomas

Quinn, John William

Rademeyer, Jacobus Michael

Robinson, Charles Phineas

Rockey, Willie

Schoeman, Johannes Hendrik

Schreiner, Theophilus Lyndall

Searle, James

Smartt, Thomas William

Smuts, Jan Christiaan

Smuts, Tobias

Steytler, George Louis

Theron, Petrus Jacobus George

Van der Riet. Frederick John Werndly

Van Eeden, Jacobus Willem

Van Heerden, Hercules Christian

Vintcent. Alwyn Ignatius

Walton, Edgar Harris

Watermeyer, Egidius Benedictus

Watkins Arnold Hirst

Watt, Thomas

Wilcocks, Carl Theodorus Muller

Wiltshire, Henry

Wyndham, Hugh Archibald

C. Joel Krige and H. Mentz, tellers.

Noes—12.

De Waal, Hendrik

Grobler, Evart Nicolaas

Joubert, Jozua Adriaan

Marais, Pieter Gerhardus

Serfontein, Hendrik Philippus

Steyl, Johannes Petrus Gerhardus

Theron, Hendrick Schalk

Van der Merwe, Johannes Adolph P.

Van der Walt. Jacobus

Vermaas. Hendrick Cornelius Wilhelmus

C. A. van Niekerk and J. Venter, tellers.

The motion, as amended, was accordingly adopted.

moved: That the petition from W. J. Thorne and 709 others, with reference to the condition of the Tennant-street Railway Bridge, presented to (his House on the 18th February, 1913, be referred to the Government for consideration. The mover pointed out that the matter was of some importance, having reference to access to the foreshore at Cape Town. Citizens did not object to the Railway Department having advantages, but they said the least the department could do was to give a little consideration to the people who desired access to the beach.

seconded.

The motion was agreed to.

moved: That the petition from M. Millner, of Millner and Co., of Cape Town, successor to the business of Millner and Traub, who in 1912 entered into a contract for the supply of potatoes to certain Government hospitals and asylums, and, owing to the scarcity of potatoes, thereby sustained a loss of over £800, praying for consideration and relief, presented to this House on the 13th March, 1913, be referred to the Government for consideration.

The motion was agreed to.

moved: That the petition from O. Harms and others, teachers in the district of Rustenburg, Transvaal, praying that the House may take into consideration during the present session the desirability of introducing a Bill, more suitable than Act No. 19 of 1908 (Transvaal), providing for pensions, to teachers, their widows and children, presented to this House on the 3rd April, 1913, be referred to the Government for consideration.

seconded.

moved, as an amendment: In line 1, after “Petition,” to insert “from W. J. de Wet and others, teachers in the district of Lichtenburg, Transvaal ”; in line 5, after “House on the” to insert “26th February, 1913”; and in line 6, after “1913” to insert “respectively.”

moved, as an amendment to the amendment proposed by Mr. Vermaas: After “Transvaal” to insert “from A. J. Louw and others, teachers in the district of Heidelberg, Transvaal, and,” and after “26th February, 1913,” to insert “1st April, 1913, and.”

These amendments were agreed to.

The motion, as amended, was put, viz.: That the petition from W. J. de Wet and others teachers in the district of Lichtenburg, Transvaal, from A. J. Louw and others, teachers in the district of Heidelberg, Transvaal, and from O. Harms and others, teachers in the district of Rustenburg, Transvaal, praying that the House may take into consideration during the present session the desirability of introducing a Bill, more suitable than Act No. 19 of 1908 (Transvaal), providing for pensions to teachers, their widows and children, presented to this House on the 26th February, 1913, 1st April, 1913, and 3rd April, 1913, respectively, be referred to the Government for consideration.

Agreed to.

moved that the Government be requested to introduce legislation to omit the proviso to section 2 sub-section (1) of Act No. 33 of 1909 (Transvaal) and substituting the following: “Provided the Licensing Court may, notwithstanding anything contained in this sub-section, grant certificates for two general licences to hotels for the sale of liquor by retail in any municipality.” Mr. Du Toit explained that at present the Licensing Court could only grant one licence at Middelburg, with the result that the person who obtained the licence had a monopoly, and could treat the public as he pleased. If two licences were granted, the public could rely upon good treatment being meted out to them as the result of competition between the two licence-holders. He, therefore, moved that the law be altered so as to enable the granting of two licences in such small towns.

seconded the motion.

said that he had no objection to the motion, provided the hon. member accepted a slight amendment to make the motion read “that the Government be requested to take into consideration the advisability of introducing legislation.”

The amendment was agreed to.

The motion as amended was agreed to.

moved that the petitions from F. G. Harwood-Nash and 255 others, from G. Schweinsberg and 99 others, and from R. D’Arcy and 345 others, praying for the construction of a line of railway from Fauresmith to Koffyfontein and thence across the Bloemfontein-Kimberley line through the districts of Boshof, Hoopstad, and Kroonstad, to connect ultimately with the proposed Kroonstad-Vierfontein line, or for other relief, presented to this House on the 14th February, 1913, and the 10th March, 1913, respectively, be referred to the Government for consideration.

moved as an amendment: In line 2, after “99 others,” to insert “from J. A. Theron and 81 others, from J. A. D. Serfontein and 74 others, from C. G. Marais and 117 others”; and in line 7, before “February,” to insert “and 24th.”

Both motion and amendment were agreed to.

moved for a return showing the number of farms owned and the total number of morgen owned within the Union by the members of the Transvaal Land Owners Association.

The motion was agreed to.

moved that the attention of the Government be directed to the inadequate provision throughout the Union for technical education and the urgent necessity for provision being made for dealing with technical education on a national basis.

seconded the motion.

said that as the subject was a big one he would move the adjournment of the debate until Wednesday, the 23rd.

This was agreed to, and the debate adjourned accordingly.