Mr Chairman, please accept my apology for being a bit late in answering this interpellation.

It is first of all a statistically difficult question to answer absolutely correctly. However, I will try to give as much information as is available from our statistical records.

The point that I have to make right at the beginning is that it is an accepted policy that we are looking at a local content of not less than 80% to 85%—that is my target. I think it stands at about 75% at the moment. Just about all of the semi-skilled, unskilled and skilled labour will be local labour.

Firstly, I will now give a summary of the manpower position on the off-shore contract. The figures are as follows: For project management we have 144 persons, for engineering 104, and for fabrication 919. That is as far as staffing is concerned. As far as supervisors and engineers are concerned, we have 36 for project management, 34 for engineering and 60 for fabrication.

With regard to skilled tradesmen we have 54 for fabrication. That gives us a total of 1 167 which excludes non-technical and unskilled staff. It includes only skilled and semi-skilled staff.

The figures for the on-shore part of the project are as follows: With regard to project management there are 246 persons whilst there are 51 supervisors and engineers. With regard to engineering the figure for staffing is 885. There are 192 engineers and supervisors. For fabrication and construction the figure is 1 407. For staffing, engineers and supervisors the figure is 25. There are 29 skilled tradesmen. This gives a total of 2 538.

As far as the infrastructure is concerned, we only have staffing for construction because it is basically handled by the private sector. For this there are 504 persons which gives a total of 4 209.

As I said at the beginning, it is not possible to give precise figures for the number of foreigners. We presume that “foreigners” mean non-residents or expatriates involved in the project.

We do not get returns stating whether the manpower used by suppliers of equipment and materials are local or from overseas. We can, however, give figures as far as expatriate staffing is concerned. For the on-shore project we have a total expatriate staffing of 2 538. The supervisors and engineers number 268, the skilled tradesmen 29 … [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, in view of the information given by the hon the Minister I am convinced today that all is not well as far as the operational functions of the Mossgas project are concerned. As a consequence I would like to know why a foreigner with no apparent skills is employed as a purchasing manager by the project management company. Why is this person being paid R24 000 per month? It amounts to R288 000 per annum which is more than twice the hon the Minister’s salary.

Apart from this, I would like to know why an additional $1 368 381 was paid to an overseas company to accept a letter of credit from a certain South African bank.

I would like to know why established, internationally acceptable South African banks were not engaged for this deal. To my mind it is highly irregular to pay a premium of $1,368 million. Furthermore, I am interested to know at what price and under what conditions Gencor and another unnamed party were awarded their 30% and 20% respectively of shares in the Mossgas project and why none of the existing oil companies was given an option to participate in the Mossgas project?

I am keen to know how many millions of rands in premiums South Africa had to pay for the platforms that are being manufactured in Saldanha by Genrig, the present contractors. In addition I would like to know why Enco had to discharge an electrical buying manager on the grounds that his position had become redundant and subsequently within five weeks engaged a foreigner in his stead. I would like these questions to be answered.

Mr Chairman, within the time constraint of the minute at my disposal, I want to confine myself to the interpellation as it appears on the Order Paper. The Mossgas project, as we know, is highly technically orientated. As such it requires persons of tremendous expertise to work on the project in certain positions. It is understandable that since this is work of such a highly technical nature, local labour may not be available easily and therefore, in some instances, it is necessary to import expert labour. However, it is not my intention to do the hon the Minister’s work here, but in response to some of the points raised by the hon member for Camperdown in respect of high salaries earned by certain staff, the answer is simple. These are people of tremendous expertise in certain fields. Obviously it is important to have these people, who will on the whole save the country millions—or maybe billions—of rands or US dollars. Perhaps, therefore, for short-term sacrifices the Government is looking towards long-term benefits.

I think the hon member for Camperdown may have inferred that we should also rely on local labour. If that is so, I cannot but agree with him. We should create the necessary infrastructure in this country so that we can train our local labour so that they could satisfy the demands made by such highly technically orientated industries. We have no objection to foreigners being employed here, provided that the Government has the intention of providing the necessary technikon training so that people in South Africa, especially the non-Whites, receive the necessary training to fill these job opportunities.

Mr Chairman, there are indeed large numbers of South Africans who are not White who are perfectly capable of providing the technical as well as other labour requirements for the Mossgas project. I want to ask the hon the Minister what steps he has taken to persuade his colleagues to have Mossel Bay declared a free settlement area, because if people are going to work on the Mossgas project in Mossel Bay—and only in Mossel Bay—they must have adequate and suitable residential accommodation. They must have facilities for the schooling of their children, and there is no point in saying that they will be employed if those amenities are not made available. The hon the Minister has a duty to sit upon his colleague who is responsible for free settlement areas, to ensure that those are created.

I would also like the hon the Minister to tell us what steps were taken, if any, in regard to the options that were taken by a certain gentleman who had inside information about the development of Mossgas.

This person, through a number of nominees, took options on the purchase of properties in Mossel Bay. Was any appropriate action taken? Was legal action taken against the offender in that particular case, quite apart from just having him removed from a certain official position which he held at the State’s expense?

The other thing which I would like to know from the hon the Minister, whose department really controls the awarding of all kinds of contracts, transport contracts, building contracts and so on, is whether any member of Parliament has any interest, direct or indirect, in any company or close corporation or firm which has entered into contracts in regard to the Mossgas project. If so, I invite the hon the Minister to give information regarding this to Parliament. It is necessary for the public at all times to be kept fully aware of every stage of … [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, my response to the hon member for Moorcross is that I believe he is swimming in water that is too deep for him.

I am a good swimmer.

Mr Chairman, this highly-paid foreign individual was engaged as a purchasing manager. Is this a highly skilled job?

Oh, yes.

In this country we have institutions which train people as purchasing managers. There are hundreds of people across the country who could be engaged in that job. I cannot see what is so special about a purchasing manager who supervises orders.

You do not understand that.

Unlike the hon member, Sir, I was a production manager in a factory and I know what it means.

The question concerns a particular purchasing manager who was in charge of buying electrical equipment. I wonder whether hon members know that the hon the Minister is also a highly-trained electrical engineer. He knows as well as I and others do, that one does not need extraordinary skills to buy electrical equipment for an electrical engineer. This person who was dismissed in favour of a foreigner—whose name I would not like to disclose here, but which I can provide to the hon the Minister after the debate—had to make room for a person … [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Camperdown has been given a paper which I have had now for almost three months, and which I have investigated thoroughly, regarding these overseas contracts. I believe the hon member for Moorcross was quite correct in his approach. Purchasing does not only involve the purchasing of sardines and tissue paper. The purchasing procedures of very highly technical equipment is a very complicated issue and many of these contracts, especially the management contracts, are being awarded to overseas companies which have the knowledge of building and constructing sea platforms for oil production. I think we in this country have no knowledge of constructing sea platforms for producing gas.

These contracts were evaluated after receiving tenders in which specific man-hour rates were provided. When the contracts were awarded, the man-hour rates were laid down in them, and that is where this information comes from. I am not going to name the gentleman, but he has already left the country, because he came under contract for a specific period to do a specific specialised job. However, the figure which the hon member gave is quite correct. If he is wrong, it is because it is not R24 000, but R30 000. However, it was laid down in the contract awarded by tender to that specific company to do a specific job.

I think the hon member should provide me with information as far as Amcoal and the so-called Premium are concerned, so that I can provide him with a suitable answer.

As far as Mossgas and the participation of Gencor are concerned, nothing in the world is stopping any oil company, or any other company for that matter, from becoming part of the Mossgas project. Nothing is stopping them. So far Gencor is the only company that has come forward. We accepted it gladly, because the Government does not have the ability to manage such large projects. It is not our job to manage a project of that kind. It is the job of the private sector. They do it every day. We therefore welcome Gencor’s participation. They are managing the project at this stage and I think they are doing an excellent and a fine job.

Better than the Government, anyway!

For sure, because they are professionals. [Time expired.]