presented a petition from A. M. Middleton, late clerk in the Chief Accountant’s Department, South African Railways, who, prior to his entering the Railway Department, served in the Attorney-General’s Department, from June, 1890, to December, 1892, and was retired in November, 1910, praying that the break in his service from January, 1892, to June, 1894, may be condoned, or other relief.

On the motion of Mr. BROWN, seconded by Dr. MACNEILLIE, the petition was referred to the Select Committee on Pensions, Grants, and Gratuities.

presented a petition from J. C. Croxford, a coppersmith in the Cape Government Railway Department, who entered the service in December, 1890, praying for permission to contribute to the pension funds for the period December 2, 1890, to June 30, 1895, or for other relief.

On the motion of Dr. HEWAT, seconded by Mr. WHITAKER, the petition was referred to the Select Committee on Pensions, Grants, and Gratuities.

presented a petition from J. Scott, a chargeman in the erectors’ shop, Salt River Works, who entered the service on July 15, 1882, praying for permission to contribute to the pension funds from July 1, 1886, to June 30. 1888, or for other relief.

On the motion of Dr. HEWAT, seconded by Mr. WHITAKER, the petition was referred to the Select Committee on Pensions, Grants, and Gratuities.

presented a petition from H. O’Connor, boilermaker’s foreman, Salt River Works, who entered the service in December, 1881, and became a contributor to the pension funds in July, 1888, praying that he may be allowed to contribute to the said funds from July, 1886, to June, 1888, or for other relief.

On the motion of Dr. HEWAT, seconded by Mr. WYNDHAM, the petition was referred to the Select Committee on Pensions, Grants, and Gratuities.

as Chairman, brought up the Second Report of the Select Committee on Standing Rules and Orders, as follows:

Second report of the Select Committee, appointed by orders of the House of Assembly, dated-the 7 th and 8th November, 1910, on Standing Rules and Orders, and to consist of Mr. Speaker, Mr. Merriman, Dr. Jameson, the Minister of Railways, the Minister of the Interior, Sir Bisset Berry, the Prime Minister, Sir Henry Juta, and Mr. Watt.

Your committee, having considered the question referred to them of the pensions or gratuities to be paid to those officers of the Parliaments of the late colonies who are not provided for and who may not be retained either in the Executive or Parliamentary services of the Union, beg to recommend: That in the event of any of the undermentioned officers of the late Transvaal Parliament not being retained in the Executive Service of the Union, the following awards be made: (a) To C. E. Hawes, Clerk-Assistant of the late Transvaal Legislative Assembly, a pension of £224 7s. per annum, (b) To R. F. Crowther, hall porter, a pension of £40 per annum. (c) To J. J. Naude, assistant messenger of the late Transvaal Legislative Assembly, a gratuity of £50.

Chairman. Committee Rooms, House of Assembly, November 17, 1910.

accordingly gave notice that he would move to-morrow that the report be considered.

laid on the table the Estimates of Expenditure for the ten months ending March 31, 1911. He said that he wished to inform hon. members that the Dutch copies would be ready in a couple of days’ time.

was understood to ask when the detailed Estimates would be ready.

In a few weeks’ time.

May I ask the Hon. the Treasurer whether he is going to refer the Estimates to the Estimates Committee as was done in the Capet

The committee of the whole House?

No, a committee appointed by the whole House.

gave notice that on Monday, November 29, he would move that the House go into Committee of Supply on the Estimates for the ten months ending March 31, 1911. (Cheers.)

repeated his question as to whether the Treasurer was going to move for the appointment of what was known as the Estimates Committee.

No, I do not intend to move for the appointment of the Estimates Committee or the Budget Committee.

May I ask

The hon. member must give notice

I only want to know whether, if I give notice of motion, the Government will give the matter precedence on the paper.

pointed out that the hon. member could not do that on Friday.

Well, Monday, then. If the House has an opportunity of considering this question at an early date, the Government will save time thereby, because otherwise I intend to oppose the motion that the House go into Committee of Supply on the Estimates.

Do the Estimates which the Hon. the Treasurer has laid upon the table contain a copy of the railway estimates also? Members have not yet had a copy.

The Estimates will be in the hands of all members in a few days.

asked the Minister of Native Affaire whether the Commission appointed in the Orange Free State to inquire into and report upon native affaire, has brought out its report, and, if so, whether the Government intends to lay that report on the table of the House.

Yes. He was understood to add that the report had been completed, and would shortly be laid on the table.

asked the Minister of Mines whether it is the intention of the Government to bring in a Bill regulating the hours of work on mines on Sundays?

gave an affirmative reply.

asked the Minister of Agriculture whether he will inform the House what steps are being taken to prevent the further spread of East Coast fever and to eradicate it within the Union.

The fencing of farms and the cleansing of cattle from ticks by dipping is also being encouraged. Experience of the disease gained in the Transvaal during the past eight years, where it has been gradually overcome, has proved the efficacy of the measures outlined if properly carried out. I am sure there is no necessity for me to emphasise the seriousness of the disease, but what I should like to impress upon the House is that, though the Government can do a great deal, it cannot do everything, and that, without the co-operation of the public in dealing with the disease, it is helpless. If the farmers will assist us by immediately notifying us of all deaths of cattle, so that the cause of death can be investigated and the disease detected, and by refraining to move cattle themselves within suspected areas and endeavouring to prevent others from doing so, I am convinced the disease could soon be eradicated. Further, farmers can protect their cattle and assist the Government in preventing the spread of the disease by fencing their farms and dipping their cattle. It has been said the natives are to a great extent responsible for the spread of the disease, and that it is hopeless to try and deal with them. With this I do not agree. In the Transvaal we have found that if the natives are well looked after and educated by the Magistrates and the officers of the Native Affaire Department they will co-operate as readily as a white man. The steps taken to deal with East Coast fever are based on the following facts: (1) That the disease is conveyed solely by certain varieties of tick which have become infected by sucking diseased animals; (2) that the ticks do not travel along the ground on their own accord, but must be conveyed by some other agency, which, as far as our experience goes, is almost invariably cattle; infected ticks which have sucked on animals other than horned cattle lose their infection in so doing; (3) that, if an infected area is kept free from cattle for 15 months the infected ticks die off, and the area becomes clean. Accordingly the aim of the Government has been to ascertain exactly where the disease exists, and to restrict movements of cattle within infected or suspected areas, and wherever possible to clear infected areas by slaughter. No movements of cattle are allowed in the neighbourhood of infected or suspected areas except under permit granted by the Resident Magistrate on the advice of the veterinary surgeon. To prevent cattle from being removed from infected areas or cattle from outside such areas being removed on to them, the infected areas are fenced. In order to check and detect movements of cattle in infected or suspected areas, it has been the practice in the Transvaal to brand all cattle within such areas with a brand which identifies the animal with the farm or kraal to which they belong, and it is hoped this system, which has proved very useful, can be extended to Natal and the Native Territories of the Cape.

asked whether the reply, being of such importance, could be printed for the information of members.

was understood to say that this could not be done.

submitted that under Rule 313 this could be done.

pointed out that the rules only applied to papers laid upon the table.

said that the reply would be forwarded to the press for publication. (Hear, hear.)

asked: (a) Whether the building formerly used as a hospital at Leydsdorp, Zoutpansberg, has been let for other purposes, and, if so, what provision the Government proposes to make for dealing with fever cases in the low country this season; and (b) whether it is a fact that the nearest district surgeon now resides at Haenertsburg, and, if so, whether the Government will make provision for a medical officer to reside at Leydsdorp during the present fever season?

So far as this question relates to the hospital at Leydsdorp, I must inform the hon. member that I have no recent information on the subject, and the matter is not one with which I can deal, as the control of hospitals has, by the South Africa Act, been handed over to the Provincial Councils. The question of securing the residence of a medical man in the locality is, however, on another footing, and has been engaging my attention for some time past. I am not yet able to say whether it will be found possible to appoint a district surgeon, owing to the fact that little, if any, private practice offers in that portion of the Zoutpansberg district, but the matter is still under consideration.

asked whether it is the intention of the Government to introduce legislation during the present session to amalgamate the suburbs of the Cape Peninsula?

This is a municipal matter, and in terms of the South Africa Act it should be deal with by the Provincial Council.

asked the Minister of Public Works whether the Government intends during the present session, or in the near future, to place a sum of money on the Estimates for the purpose of building a bridge across the Orange River at Prieska?

said that the estimate for the bridge was £7,000. The Government intended to give the matter further consideration, in order to gauge the requirements of the district, before any decision was arrived at.

asked the Minister of Agriculture: (1) Whether he is aware that the people living along the Vaal River, on the Free State side, suffer great inconvenience, because since the war they are not allowed to cross through the Vaal River to the Transvaal and back with their oxen; and (2) whether he is aware that trade is thereby damaged, and whether the Government intends to give the said people more facilities for the future, or to open the drifts?

replied that the prohibition on cattle crossing the Vaal to the Transvaal was proposed by the Late Free State Government, and was still in existence, for the reason that East Coast fever existed in the Transvaal, and in the interests of the Free State it was not desirable that cattle should be allowed to cross into it from the Transvaal. The Government was not prepared to allow cattle from the Free State to cross the Vaal River into the Transvaal and back.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether he is aware that certain railway and other officers in certain parts of the country openly supported the candidature of certain candidates by decorating the engines and other parts of the trains with the colours and poster of the said candidates, and, if so, whether he will take steps (1) to forbid such undesirable conduct for the future, and (2) to immediately transfer the officers concerned?

was understood to reply that the Government was making investigation into scome charges of the kind. He did not know whether they might not transfer the men concerned; at any rate, he would inform the House on the point at a later stage.

asked the Minister of Railways and Harbours whether any of the employees of the South African Railways are paid ordinary wages on public holidays, and, if so, what classes of employees are so paid and for how many public holidays during the year?

was understood to reply that with very few exceptions railway employees were paid for holidays With regard to the second question, this would take some time to compile, but he would see what could be done.

asked the Minister of the Interior whether the Government has received from the proprietors of newspapers outside Cape Town a petition praying for the free transmission by telegraph of the press reports of Parliamentary proceedings, and whether it is intended to take action in this direction?

replied that no application of this kind had been received, and it was not the intention of the Government to carry Parliamentary reports over the wires free of charge.

asked the Prime Minister whether it is the intention of the Government to introduce legislation making the fair-wage clause applicable to Government contracts throughout the Union?

said that the question was one of some importance, but the Government was prepared to take the matter into consideration. (Hear, hear.)

asked the Minister of Education: (1) Whether he will be good enough to give the information asked for under head No. 4 of the question regarding the Agricultural College at Pretoria, which information was not given yesterday; (2) whether he will inform the House why the £100,000 voted for the Agricultural College was diverted to some other purpose; and (3) from what sources it is expected that this money will be refunded?

said that the full details of the scheme had not yet been considered. He tried to make that point clear on the (last occasion. Its extension and development into a firstclass modern Agricultural College was in view.

At Pretoria?

Yes. Continuing, he said that the £100,000 was not diverted to any other purpose. The amount was included in the schedule of works: to be paid for out of the loan of 1903. This consisted of reservable advances, and therefore only on its being repaid could the account be funded.

Who were these advances made to?

The Crown Colony Government.

moved for leave to introduce a Bill to define and declare the powers and privileges of the Parliament of the Union of South Africa; to give freedom of speech and debate on proceedings in Parliament, and to give summary protection to persons employed in the publication of Parliamentary papers.

Leave was granted, the Bill read a first time, and set down for second reading on Monday.

moved for leave to introduce a Bill to consolidate and amend the laws in force in the Union relating to the solemnisation of marriages.

Leave was granted, and the Bill read a first time.

moved that the Bill be read a second time on Tuesday.

suggested that a little longer time should be allowed for the consideration of the Bill.

did not think it was necessary. It was only a consolidating Bill.

said the Bill was hardly likely to be reached on Tuesday, which was private members’ day.

moved “That this House deprecates the making of contracts in any way interfering with the freedom of marriage, and resolves that the Union Government should use its influence in every way to discourage or prevent such contracts being made or enforced” The mover said the question was a very big one. In this country there were several large institutions, including the Government, which put obstacles in the way of the union of persons of marriageable age. In one large institution no clerk was allowed to marry until after 12 years’ service, no matter what his salary might be. Then lady teachers were not allowed to retain their billets after marriage, so that the Government were also offenders. The banks, too, were in much the same position in regard to the restrictions they placed on their clerks getting married. He quite appreciated that, in the case of certain special Government officials, restriction is to some extent were necessary. In English and Scottish law, any general restraint on marriage was unlawful, though restrictions as regards the marriages of particular persons was legal. In some special circumstances the Government might properly impose restrictions in this country. For instance, it would be just and proper for the Government to say that the marriage of any European clerk in the State service to a native or coloured person should involve forfeiture of such person’s office. But any general sort of restraint was wrong. He thought it would be perfectly right if the Government discouraged such general restraint by withholding public business from any institution which had a general clause in contracts with their servants in restraint of marriage.

seconded.

said he thought general restriction against marriage was against public policy, and if the Government could use its influence in the direction of discouraging such restrictions, he was sure their action would commend itself to the House and to the country.

said that, unfortunately, this was a question which affected some of his Departments very much As much as possible he would extend his blessing to the happy state of marriage; but he was afraid that if the advice laid down in the motion were followed, the marriage of certain classes would not be an unmixed blessing. Forty per cent. of the police were allowed to be married, but if the principle laid down in the motion were extended to the police, it would involve a very large extra expense. Then the fact that policemen were married prevented the force being so mobile as it otherwise would be. The same principle held good with regard to warders, and the fact that some warders were married prevented them from being shifted from one prison to another

said he was in the same position as the mover, for he had always valued his freedom of action very much. (Laughter.) He objected, however, to the distinction drawn by the mover between the white and coloured races in this matter. Every man and woman, irrespective of colour, ought to be free to marry whom they pleased.

said that the embargoes which were being placed on marriage—whether by institutions like banks and insurance societies, or by Government Departments—were altogether wrong. (Hear, hear.) The result must be that in time a great deal of the increased population of the world, and particularly in our own country, would consist of a class that was not so well adapted to the carrying on of the good qualities of the race that otherwise we might secure. The more we tried to put an embargo on suitable marriages, the more we were doing an injury to the race to which we belonged. The more we did that, the more did we secure an undesirable class of people living in the world.

The motion was negatived.

moved: “That the attention of the Minister of Lands be directed to the high quitrent which is being paid on farms in Griqualand West and Beohuanaland.” In introducing his motion, the hon. member said that it had been a hardy annual in the Cape Assembly. A deputation from the districts mentioned had recently visited the Minister of Agriculture at Pretoria. They had been sympathetically received, and presented an optimistic report on their return. Farms in Griqualand West and Bechuanaland had been granted under many different Acts. The Act of 1878 was the first to make provision for the disposal of farms. The then Government considered it policy to make as much as possible out of the sale of Crown lands. Bad as that policy was, the farming population was but poorly represented in Parliament at that time; he was glad that conditions had changed to such an extent that a farmers’ Cabinet was now at the head of affairs. In 1887, an Act was passed, increasing the facilities for obtaining Grown lands. In 1896, 1897, and 1908 further amendments were introduced into the existing legislation, but the final result of this tinkering was hopeless confusion. It was in order to unravel a very tangled skein that the motion had been introduced. In 1908, the member for Vryburg, in the Cape Assembly, moved for a Select Committee to go into the question thoroughly, but the right honourable gentleman who guided the destiny of the country in those days kept too dose a hold on the purse-strings. The present Government should appoint a Commission to inquire and report, without delay. He, the speaker, would give evidence before such a body, for it was imperative that the people in the North should be assisted.

seconded. He said he was very glad that the attention of the House had been called to what had been a long-standing grievance. The members of the old Cape Parliament would recognise the motion as a hardy annual. He regretted to say that, in spite of all the efforts that had been made in the past, the matter had not been remedied. The case of Bechuanaland was even stronger than that of Griqualand West. The question was: How were they going to bring about uniformity between these parts and the various Provinces forming the Union. If they went to the Transvaal, they found that the average quitrent was 10s. per 1,000 morgen. In the Orange Free State it was £1 for 1,000 morgen, and in Natal he understood that it was a little more. In the North-western districts of the Cape, however, the farmers were penalised by the heavy quitrent, and the development of the country retarded, and the question was as to how the Government should approach the matter. The question was a very big one, and should not be dealt with by a Select Committee. He would prefer to see a Commission appointed which would go round the country, get into touch with the farmers, and hear what their grievances were He thought that such a Commission would do far more good than a Select Committee, which would simply lake the evidence of half-a-dozen people. In the Cape they had had a Quitrent Relief Commission, but it was not a success. It consisted largely of Civil Servants, who did not understand the local requirements. True, it went round the country, but not in the interests of the country generally. It went round to see that the revenue of the Government was not interfered with. The Prime Minister had declared his intention to carry out a policy of development, and he (the speaker) thought that this was an opportunity for the Government to hear the grievances of the farmers of Griqualand West and Bechuanaland, and to remove those embargoes that were largely militating against the development and occupation of the land. He hoped that they were going to have a satisfactory reply from the Government, and that they would hear from the Prime Minister that a Commission would be appointed during the recess. If a Commission were appointed, he had every reason to believe that its report would be favourable, and that it would lead to a considerable reduction of the quitrent paid on farms in Griqualand West and Bechuanaland.

said that the motion asked that the attention of the Government should be called to certain anomalies, and to what was considered to be an iniquitous incidence of taxation in a certain portion of the country. He trusted that he would never be found asking the House for doles for any constituency in which he was interested. He trusted that he would never be found asking the House to throw away revenue which fairly belonged to the country, and he trusted that he would never be found asking the Government to be extravagant or to waste revenue. But where inequalities and anomalies existed, surely the attention of the Ministry should be called to them, and asked seriously to consider the situation. Whether a Select Committee or a Commission would be the better way of dealing with the matter, he did not know, but he certainly would support a careful inquiry being held into the question in order that it might be fairly put before the House.

welcomed the support given to the motion by the previous speaker. The hon. member for Barkly, during the elections, had had occasion to travel about in his Constituency, and that had given the hon. member an opportunity of seeing for himself how the people were living. They had been suffering for the last twelve years, and nothing brought home the difference between one part of the country and another so quickly as an examination of the conditions under which they had to exist. In the past they had had a Commission to report on those things Its personnel was sufficiently able to deal with the question at issue, but many witnesses never appeared, simply because of the lack of postal facilities in that part of the country. Some of them could only be reached by post once a month; hence these people never heard of the Commission until it had finished its labours. The Commission drew up its report on the basis of the evidence placed before it by the magistrates, but if the wishes of the hon. member for Hopetown were carried out, not a single member of the House would offer any objection to an amelioration of the conditions complained of. He urged the speedy appointment of the contemplated Commission of enquiry in order that relief might be granted during the next session of Parliament.

said he was in favour of closer settlement. Before bringing any more people into South Africa, however, they should make sure that the land was there on which to put them, and he trusted the Government would pursue a policy tending to make unoccupied parts of the country inhabitable.

said that it was absolutely necessary that that question of the disposal of the Crown lands should be gone into. The policy of making money out of Crown lands was a mistaken one, he thought, but they must also guard against speculation, as far as Crown lands were concerned. He hoped that the Government would give serious consideration to the appointment of the Commission, and see that the Crown lands were beneficially occupied. The hon. member alluded to the Cape Acts of 1895 and 1898. He said that all their Acts had had in view the making of as much money as possible out of the Crown lands, instead of getting them settled as beneficially as possible.

moved, as an amendment, to add to the end of the motion: “And the districts of Cathcart and Stutterheim.”

seconded the amendment.

said that if the Government could induce people to settle upon those farms instead of demanding high quitrents, it would be better for all concerned. Some had had to sell their farms because they could not pay their quitrent. He thought the Government should look into the matter, and he regretted that something stronger had not been proposed. The charges were often iniquitous.

said that the Government had every sympathy with the question now before the House, but as was often the case, as far as matters of finance were concerned, the Government could not only look to one side, but had to keep other matters in view. They could not lose sight of the fact that the same matter had been before the Cape Parliament on several occasions, that Acts had been passed in that connection, and that a Commission had been appointed and had reported. The matter had come so recently before the Cape Parliament as October, 1909, he thought. Well, if they referred the same matter to the Union Parliament that would be tantamount to constituting the latter as a Court of Appeal as far as the old Cape Parliament was concerned. The Government would give the whole matter due consideration at the proper time, but there was danger in piecemeal legislation, because although certain grievances might be remedied by so doing, other grievances would again arise. The matter must be dealt with from the point of view of the whole of the Union, and one uniform scheme adopted. The Government would devote its attention to the matter on that line. (Hear, hear.)

said that he was glad the Minister had recognised that an injustice had been done in the past. It followed that action would have to be taken, because it was surely the duty of every Government to remove grievances where these were known to exist. He commended the motion to the Government’s consideration.

Does the hon. member withdraw his motion?

No; not that I will leave it in the Government’s hands.

The amendment was negatived.

The motion was adopted

moved, seconded by Mr. I. G. KING. “That in view of the danger arising from the rapid spread of East Coast fever, this House is of opinion that legislation dealing with the subject should be introduced forthwith.” The mover said that though the motion bad been changed this did not mean that he had changed his opinion on the subject. He Wanted legislation to deal with localities where East Coast fever had made headway. The answer he had heard on the subject had been disappointing to him, and he felt sure would be exceedingly dis appointing to his constituents. Continuing, he said that when the first Prime Minister of the Union of South Africa took in his own hands the portfolio of agriculture it was thought throughout the length and breadth of the land, or accepted as an indication, that it meant a recognition of the importance of the industry in this country. And what was wanted was a clear and definite policy of agricultural development as against a policy of opportunity. The Prime Minister had said that the country was not ripe for such legislation, but if he (the Prime Minister) knew of the conditions of farming and the danger there was of herds being swept away, he (the mover) did not think he would say that the country was not ripe for legislation of this kind. The hon. member proceeded to refer to the evidence given before a Select Committee, which had considered the matter, where the importance of legislation being enacted to deal with the disease was urged. He also read a telegram which he had received from King William’s Town— a constituency which he did not represent— which stated that at a meeting of the Farmers’ Association there a resolution had been passed urging upon the Government the desirability of bringing forward legislation for the compulsory cleansing of cattle. The consensus of opinion was that legislation was necessary, and that this legislation should be carried into effect without delay. Was the Prime Minister going to adopt a policy which he himself must know to be the right course—a course which had been clearly indicated by the highest scientific authorities in the country? Was he going to put up a fight against East Coast fever or was he going to allow himself to be thrown hither and thither by the policy of the party or the exigencies of party? The hon. member proceeded to refer to the number of cattle in the Province, and the dire consequences that might fallow were something not done by the Government to deal with the scourge. More than the mere loss of cattle was the effect such a state of affairs would have upon a great industry of the country. During the thirty years he had been engaged in farming he had noticed a gradual if, perhaps, slow advancement, in certain branches of the agricultural industry in his part of the country, but if East Coast fever came in and killed off the cattle the industry would be thrown back years The recommendations of the Inter-Colonial Agricultural Union which he had ventured to submit to the House, were the outcome of the best advice they could possibly get in this country, and of careful deliberation. He was a great admirer of the party system, which was perhaps the purest hat, had yet been conceived by the genias of statesmen, but he would be sorry to think it was not possible in this country for parties to unite in the face of a threatened national calamity. (Hear, hear.) He had not raised this question as a weapon with which to assail the Government. He had brought it forward in the hope that Parliament might be able to induce the Minister for Agriculture to bring in a Bill embodying the resolutions to which he had referred, and he brought it forward, in the second place, in the hope that he would be table to show the Minister for Agriculture that in taking this course he would have the support of the vast majority of hon. members of that House. If the right hon. gentleman should find himself unable to accede to his (Mr. Blaine’s) request, he would have to press the matter to a division, in order that, it this country were devastated by East Coast fever, the country might know on whose shoulders to lay the blame. He hoped the time would come when there would be in that House a Minister for Agriculture who would assume office with a clear and definite policy, a man who would enter Parliament determined to carry that policy through or resign his portfolio. If they had a Minister who would take up that position he would have behind him the strong and enthusiastic support of a large body of members. (Cheers.)

said that thanks to the Prime Minister of the Cape, and the Minister for Education of the Cape, and their officials, the Gape had in the past made a splendid fight against East Coast fever, and the Transvaal, too, had done work which was greatly (appreciated. It would be a matter for regret if they were to relax their restrictions and their efforts now. He regretted that the Government had given up the shooting policy in the Transkei. Unless they took proper measures it would be only a matter of time for the outbreak to sweep through the whole of the Colony. He hoped the Government would reconsider the matter, and re-adopt the shooting policy. The expense of cordons and the like was great, but such measures were comparatively ineffective, and the disease was slowly moving along, whereas if they used the gun they could stamp it out there and then. There were something like a million head of cattle in the Transkei. In what condition were the natives going to be if all these cattle were swept away? He did not know what reasons actuated the Government in stopping the shooting policy in the Transkei. If it were because they feared trouble, he would say it was the duty of the Government to have taken up a firm attitude from the first, and to have made the natives understand that what the Europeans had to submit to, they also would have to submit to. It would be an act of kindness to make the natives understand it was in their own interests that these measures were being taken. The resolutions of the Inter-Colonial Agricultural Union were excellent, and if the Government would adopt them in their regulations, they would have gone far towards coping with the disease. The policy of the Government should also be to encourage dipping as much as possible, and in this connection he thought Government should come to the assistance of farmers. He also believed in fencing, and if they wished to stamp out East Coast fever they should stop the movement of cattle, and all infected beasts should be destroyed. Then they must not be too sure that East Coast fever would confine itself to the coast belts. The whole House had the greatest confidence in the Prime Minister—(hear, hear)—but there was a tendency to modify the regulations. Rather they should be made more stringent, and then there would be a chance of stamping out the disease. (Cheers.)

said the consideration of East Coast fever was not going to be made a party question in that House. (Hear, hear.) Natal’s experience with regard to the disease was, he admitted, not satisfactory. In a few months wealthy farmers there had been reduced from affluence to penury, and the storekeepers also suffered. Let those who hesitated about giving Government powers in this matter remember the fact. He was Minister of Agriculture for Natal when East Coast fever broke out in that Province, and he knew the difficulties which confronted the Administration in dealing with it. He believed that there existed on the Natal Statute-book sufficient measures for stamping out the disease, with the added precaution of dipping, which had been found of the greatest value. (Hear, hear.) Many districts in Natal had adopted the permissive laws regarding dipping, and he thought the Minister of Agriculture should be empowered to insist on dipping. (Hear, hear.) He hoped every hon. member would support the motion. (Hear, hear.)

agreed with every word spoken by the last three speakers. He would tell the House why Natal’s efforts to stamp out the disease had failed. It was because the Natal Government had not the courage to force its policy on the country. (Cheers.) But the question was of sufficient importance to have gone to the country on. (Cheers.) If (proceeded the hon. member) an energetic policy were not carried out by the Union Government, great disappointment would be felt in Natal, which made a mistake in not benefiting from the example of Rhodesia. He warned that Government and Parliament not to make the same mistake, and not to be guided by the example of Rhodesia and Natal. (Hear, hear.)

said that he cordially supported the motion, but he wished to indicate to the House the condition of affairs in the Transkei, because at the present time the whole of that territory had been declared by Proclamation to be a suspected area. As regards the preventive measures that ought to be taken, he wished to say that he spoke for the people whom he represented, when he said that the first and chief instrument of prevention must be dipping, constant dipping, compulsory dipping. From his knowledge of the natives, and of what had been done in the Transkeian Territories, he was certain that the natives—in fact, the whole population— would be ready to adopt a compulsory Dipping Act. To his mind, first and foremost in regard to combating East Coast fever was the bringing into existence of a compulsory Dipping Act. With regard to the Transkei, the Cape Government veterinary surgeon had reported that there were 86 dipping tanks and 34 supervisors. Out of the 86 tanks a large number had been established by the natives themselves. He wanted to give the House these figures in order to show that there would be no difficulty in the Transkeian Territory, as suggested by the hon. member for Bechuanaland (Mr. Wessels). That hon. member seemed to think that the natives were a great hindrance to the carrying out of regulations for the prevention and eradication of the East Coast fever. That, however, was not so, and perhaps it would be news to some members to know that the natives were raising, by voluntary subscriptions, the sum of £15,000 or £16,000 for the prevention of the fever by the erection of 15 tanks and 35 spraying machines. A large proportion of these tanks had already been erected. In one district in the Transkei there were three dipping tanks erected solely by natives; but there was only one supervisor, and he thought that there was an opportunity for the Government to come forward to help the people of the Transkei. He thought that the expense of appointing supervisors ought to be met out of the general revenue of the country. With regard to fencing, the general opinion in the Transkei was that it had not proved a very great help. With regard to the resolutions passed by the Agricultural Union, he said that, although he did not wish to criticise them, there were differences in the circumstances of the country which made some of the provisions rather unworkable in the Transkei. He did not wish it to be supposed that he was opposed to the motion, or to the carrying out of the resolutions of the Agricultural Union, but he did want the House to understand the peculiar circumstances of the Transkei, and to recognise that there must be a modification of the system that prevailed in other parts of South Africa. Continuing, the hon. member quoted from a recent leading article in the “Territorial News,” which, he said, bore out exactly what he had been saying, and which also expressed dissatisfaction with what the Prime Minister (General Botha) had said the other day. He hoped the hon. member would take that matter into his serious consideration and see if the regulations were carried out, it was done with a minimum of hardship and inconvenience.

said he was glad of the assurance given the House by the Prime Minister, and added that the right hon. gentleman would have the whole hearted support of hon. members on his side of the House. He dealt with the Act passed in the Gape Province in 1908, and said the pity was that the provisions of this measure did not go far enough. He laid stress on the branding of cattle, pointing out that the Cape Act of 1908 did not give the Government power to enforce branding. It was because the Act was deficient in these respects that they now urged upon the Government the necessity of strengthening legislation of this kind. The speaker went on to refer to the terms of the Act of 1908, and said that the Government had no power to compel people to brand cattle. If this brandling system had been in farce in the Transkei they would not have had the incident which happened the other day. Cattle broke through the fence, and one came down as far as the East London division. As these cattle were not branded, there were no means of these animals being traced. He said that the Prime Minister, after what he had stated, could rely upon the wholehearted support of the House so far as strengthening existing legislation was concerned. He referred to what had been said about dipping, and remarked that he thought compulsory dipping was an impossibility at the present time. At the same time, no man should be a danger to his neighbours, but all should be prepared to sacrifice something in the general interests of the community. He hoped that the Prime Minister would not object to this resolution being passed.

pointed out that in the King’s Speech, delivered by the Governor-General at the opening of Parliament, reference had been unlade to the introduction of a measure dealing with stock diseases. So far as branding in the Territory was concerned, it was not necessary to await the passing of this new Bill, because the Government had the power to make a declaration of the kind by Proclamation. The reason why it had not been done was not because they had not the power, but for other reasons. At the same time, he would mention that the system bad been enforced in certain parts. Drastic regulations were all very well, but if they were not enforced to the full extent, then such a policy was not sound. Again, if they introduced branding into a community that was against branding, there would be a scare, the natives would trek away with their cattle, and serious consequences might result. He thought that those who had influence in the Territory should use that influence, and see that the people worked with the Government. Without co-operation of the people, it would be impossible to carry out any regulations of the kind. The hon. member for Bechuanaland (Mr. Wessels) said that they should shoot. That was all very well, but they must consider the other side of the question. If they did that, they might alienate the sympathy of the people, and do far more harm than good. They did shoot in parts, but it was one of those actions in which the greatest discretion had to be exercised, and the best thing done under the circumstances. Hon. members could rest assured that the policy laid down by the expert at the Congress referred to was the policy of the Government, and they were doing what they could to give effect to that. It was the intention of the Government shortly to introduce legislation giving them full power to carry out that policy.

said he, like other hon. members, appreciated the good intentions of the Government, but he would like to know how they were going to give effect to their intentions. If the Transvaal system was the best system, why not extend it? And, then, how could they extend it? They had not the machinery. How were they to get people to co-operate? One part of the Government case ‘was that it was absolutely essential that there should be co-operation, and then, as a reason for not acting upon those lines, they were told that they could not get co-operation. It seemed to him they wanted in the hands of the head of the Government something equivalent to martial Jaw. He meant that in the war against this disease they wanted very strong powers in the Government, and they could not rely entirely on the voluntary co-operation of the community. The disease was slowly creeping on. People were deluding themselves with the idea that the disease would not spread on the high veld. Well, they had found it at plaices 12,000 feet high. A year ago he was at Washington, and made some inquiries about this, and he was told that the two great enemies which the Government had to deal with in this matter of cattle diseases were the ignorance of the population and the State rights. Well, in the matter of the ignorance of a large section of the population, this country could match America. If they introduced an optional system here, if they gave Divisional Councils or certain areas the right to invoice the operation of the law, they would have State nights in the very worst form—(hear, hoar)—and they would never get any remedy. They had had had cattle diseases in this country before, but unless this disease were stopped, all the cattle in South Africa would be wiped out. And they must remember it would be 15 months before they could start the process of building up again. And, moreover, they could only go on with inferior immuned stock, as was the case in the redwater infected areas in America. It would be of great interest to hon. members to read the statement of the Prime Minister, because a more Convincing case for legislation could not be made out, nor could it come from a higher authority, for there was no hon. member in that House who had had the opportunities and the experience of the Prime Minister. It was there, in that House, that an appeal ought to be made for co-operation, and not in the Transkei and other parts of the country. (Hear, hear.) It was no good saying that a storekeeper must co-operate with a native or a farmer, It was the member himself who must co-operate with other members to put drastic measures into operation. It was in Parliament that there must be co-operation. It was an unfortunate thing in regard to this disease that it made a very profitable set of circumstances for one set of people, and before they could deal with it effectively it must be made unprofitable to everyone. (Hear, hear.) He appreciated the difficulties of any Government or of any official if any sort of exemption were allowed. Not one of the exemptions allowed in the past had been of any help. What was desired was cooperation in a constructive effort to deal with a big danger And in dealing (with a big danger hardships had to be endured, and very often great injustice had to be done to the individual. However, that was for the good of the country at large, and he honed Government would ask for powers, which he was certain it would get, and it =would also obtain that co-operation throughout South Africa which would secure for it that full support so necessary to enable the Government to deal with the situation. (Cheers.)

said it was terrible to realise the havoc that the disease had wrought in his constituency. Several different methods were tried of dealing with the disease, and the result of the frequent change was that everything was at sixes and sevens. However, now there were rays of sunshine in the researches of Dr. Theiler and Dr. Watkins Pitchford, It had been found that if cattle frequently were dipped in an arsenical preparation, the ticks were poisoned, and in about 15 months or two years a farm would be cleansed. But it was essential that dipping should be started betimes, and should be made compulsory. The law should be a strict one, and the regulations, when once laid down, should strictly be adhered to. Natal’s experience in this respect had been an unfortunate one, regulations which had been promulgated in August not having been carried out up to the present. The rest of the country which had so far escaped the disease little knew of the danger that confronted it. Therefore, he trusted the House would follow up the question, and see that legislation was brought forward.

said that his desire was to enable the Government to carry out a policy which the was pleased to hear had been the policy of the Prime Minister in the Transvaal.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if the Government were introducing a Bill in which regulations would be embodied?

The House would be asked to give power to the Government to put these things into force.

But will the powers in the Bill be of such a character that the Government must carry them out?

replied in the affirmative.

The motion was agreed to.

moved for a return showing: (a) the number of cattle which have died from East Coast fever, as well as the numbers which have been destroyed or slaughtered with the object of preventing the spread of the disease; and (b) the approximate value of the animals which have so died, been destroyed, or slaughtered since the disease first made its appearance, to the present time in the Transvaal, Natal, and Cape Provinces respectively.

seconded.

said that instructions had already been given to have the return prepared, and that it would be laid on the table as soon as it was ready.

The motion was agreed to.

withdrew his motion: “That the Minister of Finance be requested to lay on the table the general account current for the Union from May 31 to October 31.” He said that the Treasurer had informed him that the returns were about to be laid on the table.

resumed the debate on the amendment to clause 3, proposed by Mr. Jagger (Cape Town, Central), who moved to omit all the words from “at any time” to the end of the clause, and substitute “within five years immediately preceding the date of he application (a) he has resided for a period of not less than two years in the Union or in any colony or territory included at the date of his application within the Union; or (b) he has been in the service of the Crown, or has obtained a certificate or letters of naturalisation in any British Colony or possession which certificate or letters remains or remain in full force and effect.” He said that it was not possible to accept the amendment. The subject of reciprocity was much more complicated than the hon. member who moved the amendment supposed, and should not be dealt with now. In not a single British colony had anything been done in the matter. The question of reciprocity was being considered by the Imperial Government, and they in South Africa should wait for the passing of a Bill by the Imperial Parliament.

said that the Minister of the Interior was wrong when he said that nothing had been done in any other British colony. The matter had been before the Imperial Parliament since 1906. Since that time the Canadian Government had passed a Bill which contained the provision which was embodied in his clause.

said he could not possibly support the amendment because it would enable certain people to trade on the rights of others.

said that all they asked was that if application was received from anybody who held letters of naturalisation from another colony, and which were still in force, it should be in the power of the Minister to grant or refuse such an application.

hoped that the amendment would be accepted. Surely if a man was a British subject and of suitable character, why was it necessary for him to wait for two years before letters of naturalisation were granted? Surely if he received such letters in a British colony, why should the Minister make the man wait all this time?

said that they would have a great many difficulties to deal with if such an amendment were included in the Act. Let them take the case of a Chinaman naturalised in Hong Kong. They had passed an Act here which precluded the entry of Chinese, and such being the case, he asked hon. members to consider a position of the kind. They would land themselves in no end of difficulties, and in asking him to do what was wanted, they asked something that was practically impossible. A Chinaman from Hong Kong, if this amendment were allowed to pass, would have the right by law to come here and submit his case to the Minister. From all points of view, he submitted, they would have to deal with a host of difficulties if they adopted this principle of reciprocity by means of a mere formula.

said the Minister for the Interior had brought forward no valid argument. Supposing a Chinaman—a British citizen— came here from Hong Kong, he would have to be here two years before he could apply to be naturalised, and it would just depend on the will of the Minister whether his application would be granted or not. This Bill did not put him in any better position than he was now. If we in this country had legislation on all fours with the Imperial Act, it would mean that we would have Imperial naturalisation. No valid argument had been advanced against the amendment.

said hon. members knew that early next year there would be another Imperial Conference, and this was one of the questions that would be discussed there. Why now anticipate a discussion which would regulate the thing once and for all for the Empire? It was difficult to deal with this matter piecemeal. In 1904 a stringent Act was passed by the Cape Colony against Chinamen being admitted, and two exceptions were made. Those exceptions were British Chinamen coming from elsewhere and Chinamen naturalised within the Cape Colony. Now, if they adopted this amendment, Chinamen could go over to Hong Kong and get naturalised there as British subjects, and they would then come here, and there would be no right to exclude them. They were dealing with the British Empire, which had a number of different laws. When the Imperial Conference took place the whole question would be decided from an Empire point of view.

said he was sorry that the Minister had not road the whole section, because he omitted the words, “after the passing of this Act no certificate shall be issued to any Chinaman on any ground whatsoever.” Another misleading part of the argument used by the Minister for the Interior was that he did not remember the powers given to him under clause five, which laid it down that there should be no appeal from his decision. Surely no one would be so foolish as to go into court in face of such a provision as that! Under the Canadian Act of 1907 persons naturalised in any other part of the Empire could go to Canada and claim to be naturalised. With regard to the Chinese, if a man came here from Hong Kong the Minister could not naturalise him so far as the Cape was concerned.

said no one had a greater admiration for the legal abilities of the Minister of the Interior than he had, but legal ability might sometimes be used for the purpose of alarming people and putting them on a false scent. An attempt had been made to make it appear that if the amendment were carried it would open the floodgates to Chinese invasion. For many years a great adornment of the late Cape Parliament was the late Colonel Sohermbrucker, a naturalised British subject, but if that gentleman had gone to the Transvaal he would have been regarded as an alien there. All that they asked, added the hon. member, was that the responsible Minister should have the right to waive the two years’ residence qualification. (Hear, hear.)

moved that progress be reported and leave asked to sit again.

The motion was agreed to.

Progress was reported, and leave obtained to sit again to-morrow.