From 42 attorneys, practising in Pretoria, concerning a Commissioner of Oaths for the large cities (two petitions).

Ago of consent, 15 years.

The petition was read by the Clerk at the table

(1) Reports of the Director of Irrigation and Chief Engineer, Irrigation, year ended June 30th, 1909; (2) copies of amendments to the regulations under the Irrigation Act, No. 27 of 1903 (Transvaal).

(1) Schedule of principal Proclamations and Government Notices issued by the Gape Public Works Department between the 16th May, 1909, and the 30th October, 1910; (2) annual report of the Cape Public Works Department, 1909 and 1910 (Partial) (G. 33—10).

Copy of a despatch from the Governor of German South-west Africa expressing regret for not being able to be present at the opening of the first Union Parliament; copies of telegrams from the Governor of St. Helena, the Royal Colonial Institute, and the British South Africa Company, conveying hearty congratulations on the opening of Parliament.

Copies of Draft Standing Orders for the House of Assembly dealing with public business and private Bills, framed by Mr. G. R. Hofmeyr, the Clerk of the House, with explanatory memoranda.

moved, as an unopposed motion, seconded by Mr. C. J. Krige: That these Draft Standing Orders be referred to the Select Committee on Standing Rules and Orders.

Agreed to.

Representations having been made to me that a considerable saving of time would be effected if the reading of questions, notices of which appear on the paper, be dispensed with by hon. members being required, on being called on by me, to rise in their places and state: “I beg to ask the question standing in my name.” I am disposed to leave this matter to the decision of the House, and if no objection be raised during the asking of questions this afternoon I will adopt this practice for the future.

That His Excellency the Governor-General be requested, by respectful address, to convey to His Majesty the King, through the Right Honourable the Secretary of State for the Colonies, the grateful appreciation of the people of South Africa for the great interest taken by His late Majesty, King Edward the Seventh, in the welfare and prosperity of the Union, and especially for His late Majesty’s kindly thought and generous resolve in graciously directing the presentation to the Parliament of the Union of a duplicate of the Commission empowering the Lords of the Privy Council or any three or more of them to declare the Royal assent to the South Africa Act, 1909, and of a duplicate of the Royal Proclamation bringing the Act into force, both of which are signed by His late Majesty, and sealed with the Great Seal, together with the pen and inkstand used by him in signing the Commission, and the table at which it was signed.

seconded.

Agreed to.

Before proceeding to the Order Paper I should like to call the attention of honourable members to the fact that, with the exception of papers of a purely formal character and papers relating to the internal affairs of the House, papers can only be laid on the table of the House in pursuance of (1) an Act of Parliament; (2) an order of the House; (3) in reply to an address to the Governor-General, and (4) by command of the Governor-General. From the form of several of the questions of which notice has been given by honourable members it would appear that they are desirous of having statements embracing the information sought laid on the table, and I now wish to point out to them that where they particularly desire statements to be laid on the table the proper course for them would be to give notice of a motion for a return or a statement, as the case may be, as otherwise it is neither incumbent nor proper for Ministers to lay such papers on the table of the House. In one or two instances where the intention of the member was clear beyond a doubt I have authorised the Clerk to alter ‘the form of the question into that of a motion, but I have hesitated to authorise an interference with members’ notices as, of course, they are entitled by way of question to ask for information if a verbal statement in answer by the Minister will meet their requirements.

asked the Minister of Native Affairs: (a) What steps, if any, the Government has taken to secure a thorough inquiry into the lamentable incidents which have lately taken place on the Wilhelmsthal-Karibib line of railway construction in German South-west Africa, involving, as reported, the lulling of from 14 to 18 native labourers, and the wounding of an equal or larger number—all presumably British subjects from the Cape Colony—by the German military and police forces; (b) what are the results of such inquiry; (c) whether the names and addresses of the killed and wounded have been obtained and: made known to their relatives; (d) how many of the wounded have died, and what is the condition of the survivors; (e) whether the report is correct that the unwounded labourers who were concerned in the affair have been working since then under military and police inspection; and (f) whether the Government will endeavour to secure the cancellation of the contracts and the return to their homes of such labourers concerned in the affair as desire to return at once to the Cape Colony.

said he was sorry that he was unable to give the hon. member the full details with regard to the occurrence. He pointed out, however, that the Government of the Union had no executive authority in German South-west Africa, and dealing with the matter did not come within its scope. He could, however, inform hon. members that so soon as he received information of the affair the Union Government got into communication with the Imperial Government, and also with the authorities in German South-west Africa. The result was that the British Consul at Luderidtzbucht went to the scene as soon as possible, in order, as he was directed, to make a full investigation into the whole of the circumstances. That investigation was still proceeding. Short telegrams had been received from him, but he had asked that there should be delay until the Government was in receipt of the full despatch from the Consul. He (Mr. Burton) could also inform hon. members that in making the investigation the Consul had the full sympathy and co-operation of the German authorities. It was hoped that, as a result of the investigation, some good, perhaps. Would come out of this evil, and that the status of Union natives working in German South-west Africa in the future would be improved. With regard to the other sections of the question, he would be able to answer in full when the despatch arrived. But he could say that the names and addresses of the killed and wounded were being obtained, and would be made known as soon as possible. No information had been received as to how many of the wounded had died, but the greatest care was being taken of the injured men. With regard to section (e), the Government had no information, and no decision had been arrived at as to the course to be adopted in the circumstances, and no action would be taken until the full despatch had been received.

asked whether the report could not be laid on the table, and any further information in the possession of the Government given.

The hon. member will excuse me, I cannot now undertake to do that. Everything will depend on the nature of the report which is made. We must be guided by that report as to our future action. I have endeavoured to give the hon. member all the information which the Government is able to give him.

Will you allow me to point out that—

I think the hon. member has had a sufficient answer.

asked: (1) Whether the attention of the Government has been directed to certain statements which have been widely published to the effect that some thirty thousand persons have perished in the Witwatersrand Mines during the five years ending 1909, and that of this number twenty-five thousand were unnecessarily and avoidable under healthy conditions of labour; (2) whether they consider the statements to be true; and, if so (3) what steps they intend to take to avoid such wastage of human life in future.

The attention of the Government has been directed to statements of the character mentioned, but from the information contained in the report of the Mining Regulations Commission, it would appear that the numbers quoted by the honourable member are largely in excess of the truth. The Government is, however, fully aware that the health conditions under which miners work on the Witwatersrand are capable of improvement. The steps which the Government proposes to take for the amelioration of the conditions are the promulgation of improved regulations and an alteration in the system, whereby the regulations will in future be more efficiently carried out. It is also proposed to appoint a medical inspector to investigate, and supervise health conditions on the mines. With reference particularly to miners’ phthisis, one of the greatest difficulties in the past has been the non-existence of an efficient device for laying dust, but recent experiments with new devices justify the hope that an efficient dust-layer may become available at an early date.

asked: Whether, in consideration of the vital, importance of the health of the people in the development of this country, the Government will advise the appointment of a Minister holding the Portfolio of Public Health?

The Government does not propose to advise the appointment of a Minister holding the Portfolio of Public Health. Matters of public health can be dealt with adequately in the Department of the Interior. (Laughter.)

asked when the report of the inquiry held by Mr. Truter into the conditions of service and pay of railway employees in the Transvaal will be laid on the table?

who was at times completely inaudible in the Press Gallery, was understood to reply: At the Greek Kalends. (Laughter.) The report was not intended to be published by the Government, as it was of a confidential nature. Personally, he bad no objection to the report being published, but railway employees had given evidence before the Commission on the understanding that their statements would be treated as confidential. With regard to the recommendations of the report, a considerable number had already been carried out, and of the others all those the Board thought necessary, reasonable, and fair would be carried out. (Laughter.)

I do not wish the Government to lay the evidence on the table, but the report. (Hear, hear.) I would like to know whether the Government intends to carry out all the recommendations contained in the report?

With regard to that, the Government have carried out all the recommendations which they should. (Laughter.)

How are we to know whether they will be carried cut? (Laughter.)

said something in reply, which was inaudible.

asked whether it is true that a request to convey the Rev. Mr. Roux, of Beaufort West, who is suffering from sleeping sickness from Nyasa to the Cape Colony, was refused by some medical authority, and, if so, by whom?

As far as the Government is, concerned, there is no objection to Mr. Roux returning to Beaufort West, and Mr. Roux’s representative was so informed on October 11.

asked whether it is the intention of the Government to introduce legislation to give effect to the recommendations of the Transvaal Mining Commission?

An Act closely following the terms of the draft Bill recommended by the Mining Regulations Commission was passed by the Transvaal Parliament, but was not put into operation pending the final report of the Commission. It is the intention of the Government now to put this Act into force and to make it applicable to the whole Union, and to adopt as regulations thereunder the bulk of those recommended by the Mining Regulations Commission, with certain amendments which are required to bring them up to date, and to adapt them to the varying conditions of mining in the different portions of the Union

asked whether it is the intention of the Government to take steps to prohibit the further introduction of indentured Asiatic labour into South Africa?

I may say that this matter is engaging the serious attention of the Government.

(a) If he can now inform the House when the Estimates of Expenditure for the year 1910-1911 will be laid before Parliament; (b) Whether he will supply a statement of the revenue and expenditure of the Union since May 51 last, and, if so, when; and (c) for how long is it the intention of Ministers to advise His Excellency the Governor-General to sign warrants for expenditure without the authority of Parliament, and for how long will expenditure be continued without the sanction and approval of this House?

(a) By Thursday, the 17th inst. Every effort has been made to push forward the work. (b) A detailed statement of revenue and expenditure for the period May 31—July 31 was published in the “Government Gazette.” A statement bringing it up to the present date is now in process of preparation. Thereafter monthly statements in similar form will to published. (Hear, hear.)

asked When the Commission to institute an inquiry into the financial relations which, should exist between the Union and the Provinces, as provided for in section 118 of the South Africa Act, 1909, will be appointed?

replied that after careful deliberation it seemed desirable to delay the appointment of the Commission.

asked: (1) Whether it is true that a large number of the officials in the Public Works Department at Bloemfontein have been removed to Pretoria, and that the work in that department at Bloemfontein is practically at a standstill; and (2) will he state when the Government intends to commence the various public works in the Orange Free State, for which votes were passed at the last session of the late Parliament of the Orange River Colony, and whether the money so voted is still available for that purpose?

Will the hon. member allow this matter to stand over until Thursday? Inquiries are being made.

asked whether the transportation system adopted by the South African Railways was inquired into and reported upon by the Railway Commissioners, and, if so, what was the nature of such report?

was understood to say that the South African Railways had never adopted the transportation system spoken of by the hon. member, so that they could not do what he asked. He was very sorry that it was so, but the system his hon. friend, evidently meant was that of the C.S.A.R., because in the Cape Colony they did not have it.

asked whether the Government instructed Mr. Kanthack to make a report upon the progress and the system of the works being carried on under the Government closer settlement scheme at Kopjes, on the Rhenoster River; and if so, whether it is the intention of the Government to publish this report soon?

replied that Mr. Kanthack had inspected and reported upon technical details, and the progress and the system of the works being carried on under the Government closer settlement scheme at Kopjes, on the Rhenoster River. The report, being a purely administrative document, he did not propose to publish it, but he would be pleased to show it to any hon. member who desired to see it.

asked the Minister of Finance whether he is prepared, when laying the Estimates for Revenue and Expenditure upon the table, to supply the following information:(a) A statement of Exchequer, receipts and issues in the four colonies for the period July 1, 1909, to May 30, 1910, as published from time to time in the various “Gazettes”; (b) A statement showing the position of the consolidated revenue funds in the various colonies at May 30 last; and (c) a statement of all loan expenditure incurred or authorised by the respective colonies during the same period, and by the Union Government since May, 30, 1910, and the sources from which such expenditure has been met?

said he was obtaining copies of the statement asked for by the hon. member, and would lay them on the table as soon as these were received. As to (b), the preparation of the accounts of the consolidated revenue funds of the four colonies as at the 31st of May last was being pressed forward as rapidly as circumstances permitted, but he was afraid it would not be possible to have them ready in time to be laid on the table; simultaneously with the Estimates of Expenditure for the current financial period. His remarks under (b) applied also to the remaining portion of the hon. member’s question.

asked whether it is the intention of the Government to introduce legislation this year, placing legal and medical practitioners in the Orange Free State and Natal on the same footing, with reference to the taking out of licences, as those of the Cape of Good Hope and the Transvaal?

said the example of lack of uniformity in taxation, quoted by the hon. member, was only one among many cases in which the minor sources of Union revenues presented marked anomalies in the different Provinces. He thought the House would agree with him that it would not be prudent to deal with these cases piecemeal, but rather that they should be provided for in a comprehensive measure after the fullest inquiry into the merits of each case, and with due regard to the interests of all sections of the community. He was afraid that, owing to the limited time at the disposal of the Government, and the great variety of anomalies in question, it would be impossible to introduce legislation on the subject during the present session of Parliament.

asked the Minister of Justice why the services of Colonel Burns-Begg, late Commissioner of Police, Transvaal Province, were dispensed with, and the amount of any gratuity, leave, pay, or pension paid on his retirement; (b) why the services of Colonel Madoc, late Deputy-Commissioner of Police in the Transvaal, were; dispensed with, and the amount of any gratuity, leave, pay, or pension, paid on his retirement; (c) whether the question of the retirement of these officers was considered by the Public Service Commission, and, if so, what was the nature of their recommendation; and (d) what were the qualifications and previous experience of Mr. Truter which led the Government to appoint him as Acting Chief Commissioner of Police for the Union?

As to (a) and (b), the services of these gentlemen were no longer required in consequence of the reorganisation of the police force in connection with Union. Secondly, the amounts of gratuity, leave, pay, end pension paid to them respectively on retirement were the following: To Colonel Burns-Begg (a) One months’ pay in lieu of notice; (b) 62 days’ pay in lieu of accrued leave; and (c) a pension under Transvaal Act 9 of 1910 of £289 7s. per annum. (Opposition cries of “Shame.”) To Colonel Madoc (a) One month’s pay in lieu of notice; (b) 58 days’ pay in lieu of accrued leave; and (c) a pension under Transvaal Act 9 of 1910 of £230 per annum. With regard to question 3, he had to reply that the question of retirement of these officers was not considered by the Public Service Commission. (Opposition cries of “Oh, oh.”) In answer to question 4, the factors which contributed to Mr. Truter being appointed by Government Acting Chief Commissioner of Police for the Union, and Acting Commissioner of Police for the Transvaal, were his long and varied service as an official both under the Cape and the Transvaal Administration. His experience gained as an officer in the British Army; his administrative capacity and his general suitability for the post.

asked whether the Government will take into consideration the reduction of the rate of interest on loans granted to farmers by the Agricultural Land Bank of Natal from 6 per cent. per annum?

regretted that it was not possible at the present juncture to take any action on the lines suggested by the hon. member, but so soon as an opportunity offered consideration would be given to the question of introducing uniformity of system and practice in regard to the various Land Bank administrations throughout the Union, and the point alluded to by the hon. member would be borne in mind.

moved for leave to introduce a Bill to legalise the union with each other of the Dutch Reformed Churches existing in the several Provinces in the Union of South Africa, and to make further provision in respect of the United Church.

seconded.

Leave was granted and the Bill read a first time.

moved that Sir Henry Juta and Mr. Watt be members of the Select Committee on Standing Rules and Orders.

seconded.

Agreed to.

moved that Messrs. Becker, King, Oliver, Wessels, and Dr. Watkins be members of the Select Committee on Waste Lands.

seconded.

Agreed to.

moved for a return showing (a) Statement of the expenditure incurred upon the improvement of the curves and gradients of the main line of railway between Durban and Charlestown, in the years 1890 to 1910, both inclusive; (b) Statement showing the increased or decreased length of the line brought about by the said improvements; (c) A list of the similar improvements upon the said/main line, which are in contemplation, or are being considered, with, in each case, the estimated cost thereof, and the increased or decreased length of line expected to result from such improvements; and (d) Statement of the expenditure incurred during the years 1890 to 1910 both inclusive, upon the provision of additional Passing Stations in the main line between Durban and Charlestown.

seconded.

said that he had hoped the hon. member would have given his reason for-moving for the return. In itself there might be no objection to it, but considerable expense would be involved in the preparation of the information required, and possibly considerable delay would be occasioned. He hoped the hon. member would not think that he (Mr. Sauer) was averse to the motion, but at the same time he thought the House should be informed of the object in calling for the information, so that it would be in a position to decide whether the information should be given or not. The information would have to be got from Natal, and he would ask the hon. member to allow the matter to stand over until he was in a position to give the information. He hoped the hon. member would tell the House why he wanted the information; it was due to the House. (Ministerial cheers.)

said he had no objection in placing himself in the hands of the House as to whether the return should be prepared or allowing the Minister for Railways to look into the matter. As to the expense and trouble, there would be none. The information was wanted for the guidance of the House, in matters which would come up for consideration. He thought the experience of Natal during the past 30 years would be very valuable experience to have.

Is the hon. member agreeable to the matter standing over?

So long as you lay the information on-the table?

was not addressing my voluble friend. (Ministerial laughter.) Is the hon. member (Sir David Hunter) agreeable to it standing over?

Yes.

Well, I move that this debate be adjourned until this day week.

seconded.

Agreed to.

moved that a Select Committee be appointed on the management and superintendence of the Parliamentary library, with power to confer with a committee of the Senate; the committee to consist of Mr. Sneaker, General Beyers, Sir Bisset Berry, Messrs. Merriman, van Niekerk, Chaplin, Sir David Hunter, and the mover.

seconded.

Agreed to.

moved for a return showing the number of officers, non-commissioned officers and men of the Transvaal Police who have been retrenched or who have resigned during the period May 31, 1910, to November 1, 1910. The mover said that at the present time a report prevailed that a considerable number of non-commissioned officers and men were making applications to purchase their discharge. If that were so, it was Parliament’s duty to inquire if any cause existed for dissatisfaction, Two or three years ago there were some alterations in the force, which gave rise to the retrenchment of some of the best men.

seconded.

I am very grateful to the hon. member for moving the motion. I hope this House will be in possession of the facts as they are, and not as they are published to be— (hear, hear)—and I have no doubt the House will be satisfied.

Agreed to.

moved that a Select Committee be appointed for the management and superintendence of Parliamentary buildings and surrounding grounds, with power to confer with a committee of the Senate, and to consist of Mr. Speaker, General Beyers, Mr. Marais, Mr. E. N. Grobler, Mr. Baxter, Mr. C. L. Botha, Dr. MacNeillie, Sir David Hunter, and the mover.

seconded.

Agreed to.

moved that a Select Committee be appointed on internal arrangements and superintendence of refreshment rooms, with power to confer with a committee of the Senate; that the committee consist of eleven members, and that the following be members of the committee: Mr. Speaker, Mr. Wessels, Mr. Fichardt, Mr. Neser, Colonel Crewe, Dr. Smartt, Mr. Meyler, Mr. Quinn, and the mover.

seconded.

The motion was agreed to.