National Council of Provinces - 02 July 2009

THURSDAY, 2 JULY 2009 __


The Council met at 12:02.

The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.


                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 2 – Parliament:

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Madam Deputy Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity to present Vote No 2, which is Parliament’s budget, for this current financial year.

On 22 April 2009, this year, South Africans participated in the general elections to give Parliament a new mandate. This mandate, which emphasises accelerated quality service delivery, is a continuation of the project of reconstructing and developing our society which began in 1994.

As public representatives we have the responsibility to work towards achieving the vision of building a united, democratic South Africa, and improving the quality of life for all citizens.

In presenting Parliament’s budget for the 2009-10 financial year, I would like to reflect in the main on the following: legacy issues; broad challenges for the Fourth Parliament; issues specific to the NCOP; budget allocation; and issues impacting on the budget. Those are the issues I will talk about. I will try to summarise them very quickly because my time is also very short.

Madam Deputy Chairperson, allow me to start by restating the constitutional mandate of Parliament in terms of the NCOP, which is, firstly, to pass legislation that supports the country’s constitutional values, human rights and culture; secondly, to oversee the executive and other state organs; and thirdly, to facilitate public participation.

We also have the responsibility to promote co-operative government and participate in international affairs. It is within this context of co- operative governance that the role of the NCOP should find concrete expression. Furthermore, Parliament is an expression of our multiparty democracy. There are legacy issues that I have to touch on that we’ve covered in the Third Parliament. The Third Parliament has served as a necessary foundation for the Fourth Parliament. I am happy to report on the following as some of the achievements of the Third Parliament: the adoption of the vision of Parliament which puts people at the centre of our work; the finalisation and adoption of the new oversight and accountability model to enhance Parliaments, including the Pan-African Parliament and the Inter- Parliamentary Union; increasing public participation activities; implementing the language policy project, thus elevating the status and use of our official languages in the processes of Parliament; and, lastly, finalising the Financial Management of Parliament Act, the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act and the Mandating Procedures of Provincial Legislatures Act.

This Act came into effect yesterday, 1 July 2009. The President promulgated it yesterday, therefore provinces can begin to use the standardised procedures of sending the mandates to the NCOP.

The challenges that we are facing as this House are the need to move from ordinary oversight to outcomes-based oversight, including accelerating quality service delivery in areas such as education, health, job creation, land reform and agriculture; consolidation of democracy through a people- centred approach; transformation of Parliament in line with our democratic objectives; and nation-building, including building consensus on issues of national interest.

I also want to raise issues specifically relating to the NCOP. The NCOP is a House of our Parliament which represents the interests of provinces. It also provides space for participation by organised local government in the process of shaping the national legislation and policy.

More than ever, during this term, we must co-operate with provinces, especially on functional areas of concurrent national and provincial legislative competences. We also need to ensure that the local government is properly supported and performs its functions as required by the Constitution.

Those are the two spheres which are very critical and very important in our lives. Although we hold the national government accountable, we must ensure that the national government assists those two spheres of government to deliver on the ground.

In the previous financial year’s Budget Vote, we raised a number of issues that related to the NCOP, and the following requires our continued focus and attention: improving the effectiveness of the NCOP, informed by the recommendations of the 10th anniversary summit that we held in 2007; completing the process of transforming the NCOP to reflect its character – that’s very, very important for us; giving provinces enough space to consider section 76 legislation before the NCOP; and articulating the nature of support required, including the establishment of relationships with other government entities for oversight purposes.

In the last term, we’ve stated that the process of establishing a working relationship with the office of the Auditor-General has started and it’s working very well, because that’s what we have to do.

On the other hand, the following are the issues that require new or renewed focus going forward as the NCOP: the centrality of provinces – the Constitution places provinces at the centre of the NCOP. We need to reflect this in the way we conduct our business. This is a constitutional obligation and a strategic issue. It is against this background that we are keenly awaiting the discourse on the future shape of our intergovernmental system, including the future of provinces.

We need to discuss this. The NCOP cannot exist without the provinces because that’s a core objective of the Constitution and it is an obligation that we are given by the Constitution to ensure that the provinces are functional. And that’s what we are going to do in the coming five years.

Taking Parliament to the People is a flagship programme for our people’s participation and our oversight initiative. The outcome of the study on the impact of this programme, which we will present to members in due course, will help us in recasting this programme to ensure that it has the desired impact. You will remember that I promised you last year that we would conduct a study to make this programme better. We have completed that study. The document is now ready and it will be given to all members as a working document on how to improve Taking Parliament to the People.

With regard to committees, there is a need to ensure that committees’ business and support are aligned and able to respond to the mandate and priorities of this institution.

With regard to the strategic framework plan, the fourth term presents us with an opportunity to craft and implement a new strategic plan to further the mandate of the NCOP. We are planning a workshop from 5 to 7 August 2009, this year, with all provinces involved. The Chief Whips, the Chair of Chairs, the Speaker - all of you - will be involved in that particular workshop to craft the strategy and way forward for the NCOP for the period of five years.

The NCOP is strategically placed at the cutting edge of co-operative government. We welcome the call by the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs to be partners and to assist the three spheres of government on issues of co-operative governance without, of course, compromising our oversight role.

In terms of the budget, I want to touch on it quickly, for your information, so that you understand how the 2009-10 budget works. The allocation was R1,35 billion for 2009-10 and this includes the direct charge. The direct charge is your salaries. It is also included in this, because it has to come through the budget of Parliament.

Programme 1 has increased, of course, by 3% and we were allocated R247,8 million, that is Administration. Programme 2 - Legislation and Oversight, has grown by 35,6%; Programme 3 - Public Participation, has grown by 12,9%; and in Programme 4 - Members’ Facilities, provision is made for facilities, including telephone, travel and other logistical facilities for Members of Parliament.

Programme 5 is Associated Services; this section of the budget allows Parliament to abide by the requirements of section 57(2) of the Constitution to provide assistance to enable political parties represented in the National Assembly to function effectively.

I should, however, point out that the shortfall of R143 million, compounded by the transitional requirement, has come out in the budget. We are short, actually, of R143 million which we should try to get in the 2010-11 budget as we will be dealing with that budget from this month.

The shortfall and the fact that the budget was finalised before the new Parliament means that the total allocation does not fund all our needs for the current financial year. And there has also been a very big cut in the budget. So we’ve got to be very sparing in funding the operational issues in the NCOP and also in the NA.

However, it is important to note that with the new Financial Management of Parliament Act, we are now better positioned to conclude the budgeting process in a dignified manner. The Act compels the Minister of Finance to consult with the presiding officers – something which was not there in the past - before finalising the allocation for Parliament.

Subjecting Parliament to the same processes of motivating its budget as government departments is inconsistent with the constitutional principle of the separation of powers. Our proposal is that before the money is split amongst national, provincial and local spheres of government, an amount is sliced from the top – and that is what we call top slicing - for statutory and other payments such as the national debt. After government has set aside the top slice, the remaining funds must be shared among the spheres of government.

Issues impacting on the budget and the work of Parliament are the following: the global economic situation — you are aware of the global meltdown; budget cycle; budget baseline; relations with constituencies; and the institutional structural relations. All those issues will definitely impact on the budget. Therefore, we shouldn’t complain when it comes because I’m telling you right now that we are definitely going to have a cut in the budget.

With regard to Parliament’s strategic planning process, this is the beginning of a new term and Parliament will need to develop a strategic plan which will serve as a guide in the performance of our work in the Fourth Parliament. The strategic planning process will allow us to process a number of issues critical to building a people’s Parliament, among them, the recommendations contained in the report of the independent panel assessment of Parliament.

There was an allegation of corruption which has come out in the media about the officials. I need to make a statement on that. I have noted the reports in the media alleging Parliament’s failure to deal with allegations of corruption against certain officials. Reference is made to the so-called KPMG report. As a consequence, this House has passed a motion to the effect that immediate action is to be taken against the five people implicated in the report.

I wish to state very clearly, categorically and unequivocally that where allegations of corruption against certain staff members were substantiated, Parliament instituted proper disciplinary processes. So I don’t know what it is that they are talking about because we have done that. It is within our power to do that, and we did that long ago – including against the Secretary to this House of the National Council of Provinces.

The disciplinary hearing against the Secretary to the National Council of Provinces has not yet been finalised. I therefore cannot talk about the things that I don’t understand because procedure must be followed. There must be transparency. The people must defend themselves against those allegations. Once the report is out, I can come back to this House to report. [Applause.]

There are people who want to set the agenda for the Chairperson of the NCOP to talk about the things that I don’t know about. Whether it’s the media that sets that agenda or other political parties, they will not set an agenda for the Chairperson that I do not know about. I know what I should do and I know what the NCOP should focus on. [Applause.]

One NCOP official has since been dismissed. It has been sad, you know that. However, the staff member has appealed against the dismissal. Disciplinary proceedings against another official have also not been finalised and are still in the process. In all, three officials in the NCOP have been implicated and the process is going on. With respect to the Secretary to Parliament, Mr Zingile Dingani, he has been cleared on all charges. As such, he is set to resume duty from next week.

In conclusion, Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you very much that I could present this budget to you for consideration. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mr T E HARRIS: Deputy Chairperson, Chairperson and colleagues, on this occasion of the debate on Parliament’s Budget Vote, I would like to congratulate the hon Mahlangu on his re-election as Chairperson of the NCOP. I have been a Member of Parliament for only a few weeks now, but already I am very impressed by the respect he commands in this Chamber and its associated committees. His wisdom and experience are assets to this House.

Someone else whose experience and good-natured judgement are immensely valuable here in the NCOP is that of my leader, the hon Watty Watson. I am proud to serve here under him. I also wish to state my pride in the fact that the Chief Whip of the NCOP hails from my provincial delegation. I appreciate the honest and open working relationship that she has with the Whips and Chairs, and I am sure this will continue in the coming years.

In addition, I would like to recognise the efforts of the staff of Parliament, and particularly the NCOP, who work tirelessly behind the scenes to support these processes of democracy.

Lastly, I would like to thank all hon members of this House for the robust yet positive way in which debates are conducted here. Several Ministers yesterday referred to the fact that this House should be a clearing house of new ideas, and it seems that so far we are living up to this ideal.

It is a positive sign to me that the vigorous cut-and-thrust of debate in this Chamber appears to remain independent from our productive working relationships outside of this House. These are my first impressions as a new member; I hope they prove to be accurate in years to come.

The conduct and aptitude of all individuals and groups I have just listed make me proud of being a member of this Parliament, but there are several things that have the potential to undermine this pride. Before I touch on these, however, allow me to comment on the budget of Parliament, since that is what we are here to debate on today.

It is significant that Parliament’s budget is expected to breach R1 billion for the first time in the next financial year. This symbolic fiscal threshold underlines the taxpayers’ contributions to building democracy in South Africa. It is this financial contribution, as well as the significant efforts made by millions of voters every four years to elect their leaders, that require us to take our oversight and legislative duties extremely seriously.

My first concern in this regard is that the institution of Parliament has become less effective at oversight and holding the executive to account over the course of the past three Parliaments. Two examples from recent years are Parliament’s refusal to debate the report on the observer mission to Zimbabwe, and the get-out-of-jail-free card it gave MPs involved in the Travelgate debacle.

In addition, last year’s parliamentary programme was substantially cut, leaving very little time for debate on controversial pieces of legislation such as the Scorpions Bill and the Broadcasting Amendment Bill. I know the Scorpions Bill was debated enthusiastically in this House, but the consultation process around the disbanding of the Scorpions shows that the vast majority of South Africans were opposed to it. The public perception was that the decision was made at Polokwane and the ANC used its majority in Parliament to force through this legislation that will have far-reaching effects on the political, social and economic rights of all South Africans.

Now, the President and other government leaders have recently and admirably recommitted themselves and the state to clean government and a reinvigorated Parliament. But accountability and oversight on the part of Parliament does not just happen because President Zuma or the Chairperson or the Speaker says it will. The responsibility lies upon all of our shoulders.

My second concern is about the KPMG forensic report, which the Chairperson dealt with regarding certain individuals employed by Parliament. The Speaker’s spokesperson has pointed out in the press that the allegations are confined to the NCOP – a fact which makes it even more urgent to us that action is taken. The public perception of propriety in the Council is at stake.

The report implicates five parliamentary employees based on allegations made 15 months ago, but so far many of the report’s recommendations have not been dealt with. I was relieved to note, therefore, as the Chairperson has just outlined, that our House supported the hon Watson this week in a motion which resolved that -

… in view of the seriousness of the allegations, and the fact that they were first made over a year ago, and the KPMG report was completed three months ago, immediate action is taken against the five people implicated in the report.

My trust is in the Chairperson in this regard.

My third concern is around parliamentary questions and oversight. In total 498 questions asked in both Houses since 2006 have still not been replied to. In addition, while the President is not obliged to appear before this House to answer questions, the Deputy President is. Despite this, he failed to attend a single session to answer questions in the House last year. We hope to see an improvement in this regard.

It is interesting to note that last year two parties did not submit a single written question. Looking around this Chamber today, one will note that these parties are no longer represented. I believe this is not a coincidence.

In comparison, last year in the NCOP the DA was responsible for 71 of the 118 written questions submitted, or 60% — more than any other party. The DA was also responsible for 36 of the 65 oral questions submitted – more than any other opposition party – and led all other political parties in proposing motions with 16 out of 45 in this House.

Last year we also produced 35 alternative policies and discussion documents. Anyone who enjoys accusing the DA of being hypercritical and negative should take note of their titles: The case for retaining the Scorpions; The DA’s alternative budget: powering growth, opportunity and democracy; Five steps to turn around the fight against crime; Reversing the brain drain; and Breaking the cycle of poverty: The DA’s plan to give better opportunities to all South Africans. In addition, we presented two Private Members’ Bills in 2008, namely the Bill to empower the Independent Complaints Directorate and the Bill to amend the Employment Equity Act.

There is no doubt that among South Africa’s opposition the DA is the driving force behind oversight in Parliament and the production of alternative policy solutions for South Africa’s problems.

We are committed to delivering on the promises we have made to the people of South Africa. Soon every South African will be able to enjoy the benefits of living in an open-opportunity society for all. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, thank you very much. Let me greet the Chairperson of the NCOP and everybody present here. Today is a very special day for me in this House. I can say that in our language … [Interjections.] No, I will tell you later which language it is. All of us here in this House are recruits. I started my parliamentary career in this House in 1994. I don’t think any of the members sitting here now were present when I started 15 years ago.

I started in 1994 as an ANC member. Today I am standing here as a proud member of Cope. [Applause.] I’m very proud to represent my party, the Congress of the People, Cope. [Interjections.] Yes, the real one. There is only one congress of the people and its president is Terror Lekota. [Interjections.] I don’t want to make too many remarks like this, because some members’ blood pressure is rising. [Interjections.] I don’t want to do that. [Interjections.] Let me rather address our task here, because I can see Tau wants to fall from his seat. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] I mean the hon Tau, yes.

The role of Parliament is what I want to touch on, because … goodness, I have two minutes! [Laughter.] No, but we must address this issue of minutes. It is very important. Chairperson, you have raised the issue of building a united South Africa, but if we want to build a united South Africa, let us hear the views of everybody in the House.

About the responsibility of Parliament, let us make it very clear that Parliament is not just one House, which is the National Assembly. Parliament is both Houses. If we want to make our mark, then all of us in this House must take our responsibility very seriously, namely that of oversight.

We must check each and every department and the Ministers. The executive is accountable to this House. When we need them, they must come! People will take this House seriously when we take that responsibility very seriously.

The second issue is resources. We must never, ever have a situation where we have to complain in committees that there are not enough funds to go to a certain place or to do oversight. It is our job! [Interjections.] You see, that is a chairperson who is screaming, “Yes, yes, yes!” there. He must take his responsibility very seriously.

Lastly, Cope is going to make its mark in this building! Cope is going to make its mark in South Africa! [Interjections.] [Time expired.] Dankie, Mama. Thank you very much! [Laughter.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Deputy Chairperson, Chairperson of the Council, lest I forget, the ANC supports this Budget Vote. But before I say anything, let me start off by saying to hon Bloem that, amandla awalingani [power is not equal] here in the House. Therefore, the allocation of minutes will not be equal either: Difference in the strength of numbers is equal to different time allocations.

Secondly, I also must tell you, hon Bloem, that there was only one congress of the people, and that was in 1955.

Ngoko thina bantu be-ANC asibahoyi abantu abangamasela enkululeko. [Therefore we, the people of the ANC, ignore the thieves of freedom.]

You stole the freedom! [Applause.]

Lastly, let me tell you this, my Whip, I respect you, and you know that very well. We really work very well together, but you must also understand that in the House it’s not by howling that you make a mark; it’s about how you work to make sure that the service you promised people, you deliver. That’s exactly what the ANC is doing, and it is committed to that. [Applause.]

Let me remind those who do not understand this very well: The ANC will rule till the end of this world — I do not know if I‘ll be there in the next one — and that is a given fact. [Applause.]

Well, let me also tell you that as I live here in Cape Town — I was born here as well — we are going to make sure that this is not an island. The Western Cape, the City of Cape Town and those who rule the province in particular, think that they have their own homeland. We did away with the homeland system and we made sure that we would never go back to it.

Let me just say that our former President, Nelson Mandela, at the final sitting of the First Parliament, on 26 March 1999, said:

Those who frame and enact the Constitution and law are in the vanguard in the fight for change. It is in the legislatures that the instruments have been fashioned to create a better life for all. It is here that oversight of government has been exercised. It is here that our society in all its formations has had an opportunity to influence policy and its implementation.

Therefore, on 18 July 2009, Madiba will turn 91 years old.

NguZondwa ke lo; ozondwa ziintshaba; zamzonda zamoyika waphuma esiqithini. [His clan name is Zondwa; the one hated by his enemies; they hated and feared him until he was released from Robben Island.]

As the House, and particularly as the ANC, we will make sure that that day is celebrated with all of you, whether you like it or not.

We also want to take the opportunity to support the call for the Nelson Mandela Day, which will be celebrated on 18 July, every year, till the end of the world. We say this because this day will give the people of South Africa and people all over the world an opportunity to acknowledge the role played by this compatriot of our people in the fight for liberation.

Eyona nto ibalulekileyo ngoMadiba kukuba akakhululanga abacinezelwa ngaphezu kokukhulula abacinezeli. Abanye babo iingqondo kusafuneka ziguqulwe nanamhlanje. Siyaxolisa ke ukuba iingqondo zenu zilukhuni, kodwa siza kuninceda. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[The most important thing about Madiba is that he did not just liberate the oppressed, but has liberated mostly the oppressors. Some of their mind-sets still need to be changed even today. We apologise for your stubbornness, but we will help you.]

South Africa has come a long way from a system based on parliamentary sovereignty that prevailed under the colonial apartheid dispensation, to one based on the principle of constitutional supremacy based on the will of the people.

Today, our Parliament has grown to be an arena of rigorous discussions about the conditions of our people and our shared destiny as a nation. We have moved decisively from a past that sought to divide us according to our race, ethnic origins, gender and material conditions. We remain committed to our quest to build an effective people’s Parliament that is responsive to the needs of the people and that is driven by the ideal of realising a better quality of life for all the people of the country.

As we straddled the length and breadth of our country during the national and provincial elections this year, we made an undertaking to the people of South Africa that together, we can do more. We said this because the participation of the people of South Africa in the governance of their affairs remained fundamental in our fight for liberation. As the ANC, we remain committed to ensuring participation of our people in the processes of Parliament.

We have also said that the fourth democratic Parliament will be faced with transformational issues that carry over from the Third Parliament. It is our task to see that this House is better positioned to fulfil its mandate of representing our people in the provinces, particularly those in rural areas, to ensure that they, too, have a better life, access to services and better facilities.

Throughout its history, the ANC has engaged in a debate and an exchange of ideas, understanding that the achievement of the objectives of a united, nonracial, nonsexist and democratic South Africa is dependent on its capacity to convince the people of the correctness of its position and its policies.

Vigorous debate is a common feature of the democratic political contest in many societies and should be welcomed as an integral feature of a democratic process. As we remain committed to responding to those within the political arena and the media that seek to misrepresent the position of the ANC and our commitment, we shall make sure that we engage and engage and engage.

Because I have had to respond to a few points, I want to say, lastly, that Parliament as the voice of the people can equally help identify problems of policy failure that require attention and also help in overcoming bureaucratic red tape. This is where our oversight mechanism plays an important role as it allows us to directly assess the implementation of policy in specific settings. I also want to remind members that Parliament must function in the interest of the people, not of the parties. As I say that with this one mouth, I will also repeat what I said earlier with the same mouth, that because we have this strength in numbers, we will make sure that we use it to better the lives of our people.

Ndiyafuna ke ukuthi, njengeshop-steward yenu, amalungelo enu nawo siyawahoya. Ndiye ndaqinisekisa ukuba zonke iinkxalabo eziphakanyiswa ngamalungu ndizisa ngaphambili. Sele zikhona iziphumo zoko esele nizibonile. Nathi ke, Mhlalingaphambili, ikhona nje into esifuna ukuyiphakamisa yokuba njengabantu abathunywe ngamaphondo — asonyulwanga kaloku thina, sithunyiwe — iimfuno zethu kufuneka ke zibonelelwe kakhulu yiPalamente kuba asizi ngendlela efanayo nelinye icala eliya.

Xa kuthethwa ngaMalungu ePalamente, ngamanye amaxesha kuyafuneka ukuba indlela yokuza kwethu ePalamente isiwe iso. Amalungu amaninzi asokoliswa zizinto ezininzi, ezinye zazo asaziphakamisayo nangoku kum. Zibandakanya izinto ezifana nokuba wona awakwazi kufaka ibango kuba kukhalwa ngeLungu lePalamente kungajongwanga indlela ilungu elo elithi lisebenze ngayo.

Ekugqibeleni ndifuna ukuthi, Mhlalingaphambili, … (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[I would like to say, as your shop steward, we are attending to your rights as well. I have ensured that I have reported all the concerns that the members have raised. You have already seen some of the results. Even with us, Chairperson, there is something that we would like to bring to your attention as provincial delegates — we have not been elected but we have been delegated — and that is that our needs must be provided for because we do not come here in the same manner as those on the other side.

The manner in which we have come to Parliament must be considered when referring to Members of Parliament. Many members encounter problems regarding various issues, some of which they still raise with me even today. These include issues such as not being able to make claims because they are not Members of Parliament, without looking at the functions performed by the members.

Lastly Chairperson, I would like to say …]

… for as long as the ANC and its alliance partners govern the country, there is nothing that is called ukulingana kwamandla [equal powers]. Democracy is about numbers.

Ngoko, umntu ongazange abe ngumfundisi-ntsapho njengam, makazi ukuba kukho le nto kuthiwa ngumgcamanani, i-number line. [Therefore, someone who has never been a teacher like me must know that there is this thing called a number line.] If you look at the number line, you will understand exactly what I mean and you will never complain, hon Bloem. Thank you. [Applause.]

Prince M M M ZULU: Deputy Chairperson, hon members of this House, on behalf of the IFP we fully support Budget Vote No 2 in your administration, sir.

Bese kuba nezinto ezithile engifuna ukuzibalula njengendoda yaKwaZulu- Natali, ethunywe abantu baKwaZulu-Natali. Ngithi, umzabalazo uliwe waqedwa manje sekufanele sisebenzele abantu bakithi ukuze kuzuze bona. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[And there are other things that I need to mention as a man from KwaZulu- Natal, who is representing the people of KwaZulu-Natal. I am saying that the struggle for democracy is over now and we need to work for our people so that it is them who benefit.]

My great-grandfather King Dinizulu …

… kwakuyisiboshwa sase St Helena khona lapha e-Western Cape. Uyise omkhulu, ubaba wakhe aphuma okhalweni lwakhe, uCetshwayo wagxoba khona lapho ehlukunyezwa ngamaNgisi. Kusho ukuthi wonke-ke umuntu omnyama wangaleso sikhathi wayegqilazekile, waze wakhululeka-ke ngo 1994. Impilo yentandoyeningi- njengoba ngike ngasho izolo ukuthi noma ngabe yiliphi iqembu kufanele kubekhona lapho liphikiswa khona. Ngakho-ke asingakuthathi njengecala kodwa sikuthathe njengento enempilo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[… was a prisoner at St Helena here in the Western Cape. His grandfather, his paternal grandfather, Cetshwayo, also walked this place when he was harassed by the English people. And this means that every black person at that time was persecuted and was only freed in 1994. Democracy — as I mentioned yesterday — means that any political party may be opposed on certain issues. Therefore, we should not consider it as an offence, but as a healthy excercise.]

It is a healthy democracy …

… ukuthi kubekhona lokhu okubizwa ngokuthiwa yi-opposition ngoba sisuke sigadiwe ukuthi singenzi iphutha. Akufuneki ukuthi senze into ecishe yenzeka eZimbabwe — ukube akwenzekanga lokhu. Kufuneka senze impilo yethu iphile njengabantu — sisebenzele abantu. Thina-ke njengoba sithunywe yizifundazwe nje ngakho-ke kufanele sisebenzele ukuthuthukisa izifundazwe zethu ukuze abantu bakithi bazuze. Futhi sixhasane njengendlu emnyama — singashayani kakhulu ezintweni ezithile. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[… where we have the opposition, because democracy guides us so as not to commit mistakes. We must guard against what nearly happened in Zimbabwe — if it did not happen already. We need to live like human beings — and serve our people. We, as the delegates from the provinces, need to work towards the development of our provinces so that our people can benefit. We must also support each other as black people — and not trash each other on certain issues. Thank you. [Applause.]]

Mr J J GUNDA: Chairperson, Deputy Chair, Budget Vote No 2 of Parliament is indeed a very important Vote, especially because it is a Vote that singles out the work of Members of Parliament, who have been elected by the people, to do work for the people and on behalf of the people, so that the people can benefit.

Our economy is under strain, revenue is dropping and many of our essential services, such as health care and education, are not coping with the huge demands being placed on them.

We in the ID believe it is imperative that Parliament asserts its leadership role during these difficult times through both our words and actions and focuses on dealing with the massive challenges in our society. Our oversight role and our programme of Taking Parliament to the People are of the utmost importance. These are so important that we dare not neglect the function of that part of this House.

Our debates need to reflect this and Parliament needs to be a centre, not only of ideas, but also of action, a place in which petty squabbles are put aside in favour of truly grappling with the challenges we face.

It is time to restore the standing of this institution in our society, and we need to ensure that all the corruption scandals of the past are dealt with properly and put behind us. I support the hon Chairperson. By reporting back to this House, I support his transparency and his accountability. I have always known him as a man that we can respect, and since the day I met him, I have respected him and this is from the time of the Northern Cape provincial legislature.

We also need a greater level of transparency in our institution and we should amend the Act so that MPs can put questions to the Speaker and the Deputy Speaker and not just to members of the Cabinet.

This fourth democratic Parliament presents us with the opportunity to build a new institutional culture, one which the people of our country can look to for true leadership and guidance during these difficult times. We dare not fail them. I thank you, and the ID supports this Vote.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Chairperson and comrades, I think before we can even start to look at this Budget Vote No 2 of Parliament, perhaps it is important to make a reflection on the fact that after the death of Comrade Bambata, in 1910, there was a formation of something called the Union of South Africa. Two years later, there was a clarion call made by our fellow revolutionary, Pixley Ka Isaka Seme, when he called on all of us, the Sothos, Tsongas, Xhosas and Zulus, to come together.

At that point, the convergence of all those people in 1912 was called the parliament of the people. I want therefore to remember Pixley Ka Isaka Seme, Sol Thekiso Plaatjie, Langalibalele Dube, Moses Kotane and Joe Slovo, as we gather today in this Parliament of the people.

Today we consider the budget of Parliament and the resources allocation made for it to fulfil its constitutional role and function as it represents the people of South Africa, acting as the voice of the people and ensuring government by the people under the Constitution. It is therefore important for us to realise the significance of this event and its impact on our daily lives, and the lives of the people of South Africa as has been defined by the ANC in 1912.

We will take note of the fact that yes, one of the key important aspects of Parliament is oversight. A new Oversight and Accountability Model was adopted to enhance Parliament’s oversight work, as well as to bring current practices in line with Parliament’s strategic path. With the adoption of the new oversight model, the next step will be to further give impetus to this particular conceptual model.

As part of Parliament’s greater oversight role, the review of Chapter 9 institutions and associated institutions was also completed under the leadership of Professor Kader Asmal. This review provided an opportunity to assess the extent to which society, human rights and trends had been transformed through the operation of these particular institutions.

The review also identified requirements to strengthen these institutions to ensure that they are best able and placed to achieve their objectives. The recommendations are being considered and will be put before Parliament for consideration.

The participation of the public in the processes of Parliament is one of the key and critical elements. Their access to the institution and its members, and information provided to the public remains a vital focal point of Parliament. These processes underpin the essence of our representatives and participatory democracy through the duration of the Third Parliament and continuous focus was to build these particular elements within the Fourth Parliament.

For example, we have had an element or programmes introduced in Parliament to mobilise and galvanise the participation of our people. With regard to sectoral participation, we have had the Women’s Parliament, for instance, in which a platform has been created for women to see themselves as part of Parliament, and not only the elite in this particular instance. We have seen a Parliament convened for women, drawing on the participation of women across the board; across the colour line; and across the landscape of South Africa.

For instance, for the first time we had rural women or women who are regarded as ordinary people participating in debates, trying to shape the policy direction of Parliament. The same went for young people. We have seen young people year in, year out, during the month of June, converging on Parliament, debating matters that have direct implications on their lives; reflecting on their challenges and on opportunities that, as young people, can also galvanise their energies in a way that will improve their lives for the better in this particular Parliament.

During the Third Parliament, the demand on Members of Parliament to engage in oversight activities and participate in international organisations, events and fora, increased tremendously. Public participation activities have also increased whilst the level of ongoing activities in the lawmaking process declined because of the first phase that had dealt a lot with lawmaking processes.

In addition, the Constitution and relevant legislations informs and is the anchor for engagement within the national and international political environments.

I welcome the increase under the programme Legislation and Oversight, but would further comment that this area requires us to continue finding ways to strengthen the support offered in the two particular fields.

With regard to Members’ Facilities, I’m noting with excitement — and not only me, but many members have also raised the issue — the review of telephone, travel, logistical facilities for members, and medical aid contributions and travel facilities of former members is under way and its recommendations are due to be implemented in 2009-10.

It has been brought to our attention that more needs to be done in that regard because members find it very difficult, especially when it comes to travel claims. It doesn’t matter what type of car you are using, the level of claim and that of repayments are the same; whether the capacity of your engine is bigger or not, it is still the same. Members feel that it is very important for Parliament to review that particular thing.

Our representatives in participatory democracy provide for active involvement of our people in the processes of Parliament, thereby providing public education, information, access to Parliament’s processes and in building a people’s Parliament that is responsive to the needs of our people. It’s quite critical.

We need to ensure that we understand the processes of democracy and the processes of leadership of democracy. I agree with what hon Bloem has said. Yes, he was here in 1994, but it is important that he understands the nature and character of the institution that he is in now. This institution is a council of provinces which brings all provinces together and provides a platform for permanent delegates from provinces to profile and ensure that issues that have direct bearing on us get national attention.

When he was here in 1994, it was a senate. A senate’s mandate and character is totally different to the institution that we have today. So, probably he needs to be reminded of that. He is a newcomer in this House. This is not a senate! He is a newcomer! [Applause.]

Secondly, it is typical of people who go out to sell out on the mandate of their people. [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: Madam Chair, time is up. The hon member didn’t have three minutes when he decided that he had three minutes. His time is up! He had one minute left.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Since when is the member a presiding officer?

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! Hon member, he had three minutes left, and I think it’s within my right to notify him when his time is over, as I’ve done with the previous speaker. Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Thank you, Chair. Hon Bloem, once more, should not be reminded of …

… Die Groot Krokodil, en die manier waarop jy van hom gehou het. Selfs ook as jy praat, lyk jy nes ’n groot krokodil … [… the big crocodile, and the way you liked him. Even when you speak, you look like a big crocodile …]

… when you point your finger. I think you must be reminded that this is not the time of the big crocodile.

To the DA, the budget that was provided … [Time expired.] Thank you very much. [Applause.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chair, I want to make sure that members understand that there is one presiding officer in the House and it is the person who is presiding and not members from the floor.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Deputy Chairperson, I want to thank you all. I never thought that the debate would be so vibrant! [Laughter.] Thank you very much. Everybody has contributed very well to the debate.

Let me touch on the issue of space utilisation, because I did not have time earlier on to do so. You will realise that there is a problem of space in Parliament. There’s a shortage of rooms for committees, and a shortage of offices for members and staff members. Parliament has taken a decision to put up new office blocks.

We will be submitting a bid tomorrow to the Department of Public Works. They were in my office this morning, and the Acting Secretary to Parliament has been engaging with them. We engaged with the Minister last week to try to put up offices quickly for you so that you do not battle like you are doing right now. We are dealing with that; we are doing something about it. Mr Harris, I will check on the two issues that you’ve raised. I didn’t have time to check on the questions you said were not responded to. I will check on that and then come back to you. I will write to you.

The other issue you were talking about is the fact that the Deputy President did not come to answer questions. I find it unbelievable, but let me check the facts — I don’t have the facts right now - and then I will come back to you.

Let me touch on one issue that all of you have touched on. That is the oversight function. I always remind Members of Parliament wherever I am that the reason why we are here is that we are a few selected people who speak on behalf of our people. You cannot get the whole Republic of South Africa to come here and make laws and speak for themselves. You are very lucky. You must count yourselves very lucky.

The first thing that we must all do is to stand very tall and proud and show those people at home who have elected us that we are serious when it comes to speaking and doing the job on their behalf. That is very critical.

I normally make this example about a bridge; I like it. I will repeat it until people understand it. There is a bridge in your constituency which was started in 2005 by a department. To date it has not been completed. How many years has it been from 2005 to date? It’s about three or four years. That bridge has not yet been completed. You, in your 4x4 or your beautiful Mercedes, drive through there every day and your car is damaged every day. The children cannot cross over it to go to school when it is raining, but you come to the NCOP or the NA and say nothing about it. I find it very strange. You stay in that constituency and yet you say nothing about it. That’s the simple oversight that I’m talking about.

You don’t have to go to a university to learn the terminology of oversight. Just go there and check on the things that are not being done, come here and put questions to those people who must respond to that.

One thing that we must do, Mr Tau – Mr Tau is the boss of the oversight function; he is in charge of that – is to create a unit in your office, at least for one or two people for now, because we don’t have enough money, to track all the things that you people have raised and that have not been addressed.

That’s where our problem is. We raise a lot of things here, we go back and they are not done. We raise them again, we go back and they are not done. We must track all those things and put them together, even if it means writing to the President or asking the President what they are doing about those things. I think that’s a very important thing. [Applause.]

Mr Bloem, I wish you could take this to many people for them to understand that Parliament is both Houses; it’s not just the NA. People think that the NA is Parliament and the NCOP does not exist. You do exist. And I hope, Mr Harris and others who have spoken about oversight, that once this machinery is running, after we have had this workshop that I’m talking about, you will not come back to me and say, “Chief, I’m sorry, I was wrong to ask you to do oversight. You are giving me too much work.” I hope you won’t do that, because you people are really going to work and you will see that.

There is no backbencher in this House. All of us have a job to do. All of us have to stand up and debate. All of us have to participate in our committees, many committees, not just in select committees, but joint standing committees, the Judicial Service Commission, the Magistrates Commission, the Constitutional Review Commission, etc. And we are only 54!

We must do that job. That’s another thing that you will see very soon. After five years, some of you will say, “I’m not going back to the NCOP. I’d rather go to the NA, because they forget me at times.”

I still have a few minutes. Mr Tau, thank you very much for mentioning public participation. What I want to emphasise to all the members is that the Constitution says that the NCOP must facilitate public participation. In the concept document that we are putting together, we want to propose to the provinces that when we do public hearings over the next five years, although resources are a problem, we must try to go to the people, and not try to call the people to come to us.

I will tell you why I’m saying this. If you say people must come to you in Parliament, who will come? Only those people who have; the have-nots will not be able to. Only those people who are organised and have the money to fax or e-mail a submission and so on, will be able to.

What we are requesting the provinces and the local government sphere to do is to go down to the villages. Let them go there. I do not even mean the legislatures - try to go out and sit in a village somewhere.

Put five or ten villages together, speak their language, stop the grand English which is used here in Parliament and speak in the language that they will understand so that they can respond, because that affects their lives. We’ve got to start doing that. And then we will physically be in touch with our people. That’s the proposal we are going to put forward.

We will also look into members’ facilities. If you write to me, I will put it to the Parliamentary Oversight Authority, POA, and we will look into that. The POA is the body that looks into that.

May I take this opportunity to thank staff members, particularly the Acting Secretary to Parliament, who has done a sterling job in his capacity as Acting Secretary. Thank you very much, Acting Secretary. I also want to thank the chief operations officer, who is here with us, and the staff in my Office, the Office of the Chief Whip and other offices that have done so well in assisting us to do our job.

The Chief Whip mentioned something here which I think is very important. This House is the only House in the world — listen carefully — that can bring all three spheres of government under one roof.

It is the only House; there is no other in the whole world. We can bring the national government, the provincial government and the local government here to discuss policy issues.

The Chief Whip has actually said something about that. The Minister for the Public Service and Administration challenged us yesterday. We must discuss the issue of Batho Pele. Did you hear him? I was sitting here listening. I’m challenging you to call a debate on that. Those are the policy issues that we must raise.

The Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs also challenged you to discuss local government issues. These are the things that we should be doing as Members of Parliament. Different select committees come with policy issues in this House, and we call these spheres of government to come and debate those issues.

Thank you very much for supporting the budget, and may God bless you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Business suspended at 13:09 and resumed at 14:05.

                          Afternoon Sitting



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, I would like to announce that, following the decision of the Programming Committee meeting, presiding officers were to find out from the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, hon Shiceka, whether he would like to proceed with the two Bills that lapsed during the Third Parliament, namely the Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Amendment Bill [B57B - 2008] and the National House of Traditional Leaders Bill [B56B – 2008].

The presiding officers have since received a response from the Minister that he would like the NCOP to revive the Bills. Notwithstanding the announcement this morning that we won’t have motions, I would therefore request the Chief Whip to move a motion without notice to revive these two Bills.


                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the following Bills be revived and consideration thereof be resumed from the stage reached with them in the Third Parliament before lapsing, namely that the Bills had been passed by the National Assembly and were before committees of the National Council of Provinces:

(1) Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Amendment Bill [B 57B – 2008] (National Assembly – sec 76(1)); and (2) National House of Traditional Leaders Bill [B 56B - 2008] (National Assembly – sec 76(1)).

Question put: That the motion be agreed to.

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Motion accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 17 – Sport and Recreation South Africa: Vote No 12 – Arts and Culture:

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Hon Chairperson, thank you very much. I must also say a word of appreciation to the logistics managers. It certainly is much better talking from here.

Hon Chairperson, esteemed members, and ladies and gentlemen who have joined us in the gallery, led by Commissioner André Pruis, an honorary member of the Department of Sport and Recreation, at least until the end of 2010, Shakespeare coined a saying, which I can’t remember now, but I studied it about 40 years ago, that “There is a tide in the affairs of man …”. I would say there is a tide in the affairs of any nation which, when taken at an ebb, will lead to fortunes, and omitted, invariably, leads us to misfortune. I think South Africa is experiencing its own tide at the moment. Watching all the activities starting from cricket, the Indian Premier League, IPL, coming right to the Confederations Cup, clearly we are riding the crest of our own tide.

I spoke to Commissioner Pruis about this when we were dumped with the hosting of the IPL, to check if this was not onerous on the responsibilities of our police, and he said, “No, Minister. This is a challenge we welcome because it gives us the opportunity to sharpen our teeth.”

One day we will be able to find time to talk seriously about the value of sport in any country and how, in terms of our Constitution, it contributes to the re-establishment of human dignity, the establishment of a society based on equality and human rights, and how sport has contributed to the struggle for and attainment of a nonracial and nonsexist South Africa. That day will also have an evaluation of where we are, not in 15 minutes, but in many hours.

In this way we would have levelled the proverbial playing field, and everybody would be able to understand what needs to be done so that all of us can be worthy and informed leaders of our communities with absolute clarity on what is to be done.

Sport is a therapy, a leadership workshop, as well as a disciplinarian. Nowadays, sport is also a big contributor to the economy of individuals and that of a particular country. Within this context, we can, without any fear of contradiction, declare that South African sport is well and alive. It is not exactly what it should be perhaps, but it is very much alive, nonetheless.

One only needs to look at the number of mega-tournaments we have participated in recently and the progress that our teams have made. This was in major events like the Confederations Cup which came to an end this past Sunday; the Super 14 Rugby competitions and finals that were held at Loftus Versfeld; the Indian Premier League; the Netball Tri-Nations; and the world championships in a whole range of other federations like freshwater angling, swimming and other codes that are hardly ever noticed.

All of these have made a positive contribution towards changing our society and uniting our people. We hope that as we hold our breath for the announcement of the winning bids for the 2015 and 2019 Rugby World Cup, South Africa will emerge victorious. I know that the technical committee has recommended Japan and London. That is okay — that is what happened with the 2006 World Cup also. They recommended Germany and other countries, but in the end it was the board that took the decision. In the same way, the International Rugby Board, on 27 July 2009, will take the final decision.

We are positive because of the quality of our bid, the history of our country and the ability displayed recently, that sanity will prevail. Of course, we beat the Lions and we will beat them again on Saturday. I hope that that will not count negatively in the decision of where the World Cup should be held in 2014. This is also what sport teaches us. It teaches us to be magnanimous in defeat and not just jubilant in victory.

Our support to bid as government is informed by our belief in our teams and our people. It is also based on the need for development in sport, which can only come about through exposure to other competitors from other parts of the world. When we win one of the bids, we should do so as a united country. It was very exciting to see, this year, the evolution of that kind of spirit when all our federations and national players marched together. It did not matter which one was taking the field, the others would be there to give moral support.

In the Netball Tri-Nations, the Springbok players and the national men’s hockey squad were there to cheer on our teams, and the same happened during the Confederations Cup.

The legacies brought about by these championships go a very long way towards bettering the lives of our people and for this to continue, we must, as a nation, also continue to give our time, our expertise and, where possible, other resources to ensure that our country remains a respectable global player.

The hosting of major sporting events brings economic activity and employment opportunities into our country. The significance of the economic and social success of smaller-scale sports events should not be discounted because most of these usually take place in smaller towns and not in major cities; their contribution is nevertheless felt.

Chairperson, you would have experienced this when we went to Lady Frere, in the bundu, in the middle of nowhere. The benefit of that visit for the bed and breakfasts and caterers is something they would never have smelt during 2008.

Increasingly, sport events have also become part of a broader strategy aimed at raising the profile of a city or a country. The more we succeed, the more we are judged, not only in terms of our profit, but also in terms of our integrity.

South Africa has demonstrated the capacity to do this, but it is the city of eThekwini, Durban, which seems to be the leader in understanding this thing. They are very aggressive, positively aggressive, in lobbying to be the host of a number of mega-events and mega-activities. We encourage this; we support them, precisely because we understand what they are doing for themselves and for the country.

I want to talk about the pet subject that we’ve put on the table since 2004 for this country to do something about - school sport. In 2008 we promised South Africa a co-ordinated national scheme for sport activities at school, because everybody was saying we are unable to have coherent development; we need a plan. We sat down with the Deputy Director-General of Education, Ms Gugu Ndebele, and our officials to achieve what we call predictability and consistency.

That schedule was produced and implemented from the beginning of 2009. We delivered to South Africa what we had asked of ourselves; what we too had thought was very important and that was to improve the participation of our children in sport.

The success of the School Sport Mass Participation Programme funded through the Division of Revenue Act, the Dora grant, has increased participation in sport as well as the development of sport champions. Many learners from schools in the programme are now representing their provinces in the Schools National Championships. This now calls for all stakeholders in sport to work together to intensify the development of sport at local delivery points.

In this respect, Chairperson, allow me to make a special call to the North West and Gauteng provinces. Our children must be attended to and assisted with participating in school sport. This is important as it also contributes to the bonding of children with their families and the bonding of families with society, thereby developing the kind of social cohesion that the President continues to talk about.

To make school sport work, we are intensifying our processes of monitoring, evaluation and supporting the delivery of sport at the local level. The role of federations in providing adequate coaching, technical training and support in developing school sport is also a very important factor. We have identified it as a key driver.

Different countries of the world have organised sport around code-specific associations which then form a national umbrella structure to co-ordinate sport at school. Africa is no exception in this respect; neither is Zone 6 nor the SADC, which South Africa belongs to.

Unfortunately, even though we are the founder members of the Confederation of Southern Africa Schools Sports Association, Cosasa, of the SADC, we are nevertheless not members at all because South Africa has not done its homework very well. I don’t want to go into the history of school sport during the 60s, 70s and 80s, save to say, when we formed the United School Sport Association of SA, Ussasa, as an anti-apartheid organisation, we were trying to mobilise school sport which was already falling apart. But since 2004, we thought it was not necessary to have Ussasa anymore, but rather have an integrated, nonracial school sport organisation which will not only focus on the organisation of tournaments, but on the building of school sport, as we used to understand it.

We are aware that the Department of Education has now given two days which can be used for this: Wednesday and Friday. Teachers have leeway in terms of the timetable of their departments to use those days for the development of school sport. The challenge here is to defeat the temptation of individualism. Our departments must begin to accept the fact that they are part of society, which is the actual owner of what school sport should do.

The President says, “Vorentoe!”[Forward!] And we should never think, “Agtertoe!”[Backwards!]. But to get “vorentoe” [forward], we must be properly organised.

We think there must be an organised federation of school sport for all South African children, which will then affiliate to its international counterparts. We do not support fragmented attempts by different people, be it in the Western Cape, Limpopo or elsewhere. We want integrated national support which binds us as one nation. To this end, starting from the Ministers and members of the executive council, Minmec, which will be hosted by KwaZulu-Natal, we shall be embarking on the programme of mobilising those teachers, learners and veterans of sport towards the re- establishment of an umbrella body for our sport.

South Africa continues to lead at the political level, but what many people do not understand is that we continue to lead at a sporting level in the international arena as well. In November last year we hosted Unesco’s African Regional Anti-Doping Conference, which was representative of the 53 sport Ministers from our continent. We also hosted the 40th Session of the Executive Committee of the Supreme Council for Sport in April 2008, as well as the meeting of Zone 6, which was a meeting of the SADC Ministers of sport to discuss how to increase our tally during the 2012 Olympics in London.

In December we also hosted the youth of the SADC countries. They are all excited about this and they are all pleading: “Parents, brothers and sisters, help us go where you have never gone before.” We need all members to be part of this initiative. Thank you. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, Minister. Members, we are going to be a little strict about your time. We have about six Votes to debate today, which will lead us up to nine o’clock in the evening. There is also a timer at the podium. You can time yourself.

Moht M W MAKGATE: Modulasetulo, Ditona tsa mafapha, Maloko a Palamente, Aforika Borwa ka bophara, ke ema fa ke le motlotlo, ke sa tshabe sepe gongwe ope go leboga le go tlotla bagale ba rona Bafana Bafana. Bafana Bafana ba re dirile motlotlo ka motshameko wa bona o o manontlhotlho.

Ke leboga le baagi ba Aforika Borwa ka kemonokeng e ba e supileng mo setlhopheng sa rona sa naga. A re tsweleleng go dira jalo go fitlha re bona ditoro tsa naga di diragala.

Ka dithulaganyo le dipaakanyetso tsa Sejana sa 2009 sa Mekgatlho ya Kgwele ya Dinao e e kopaneng ya Fifa, re bontshitse lefatshe lotlhe gore re a kgona e bile re na le bokgoni. Ke tla bo ke dira phoso fa nka se leboge … [Tsenokganong.] (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[Ms M W MAKGATE: Chairperson, Ministers, Members of Parliament, South Africa at large, I stand here before you being very proud and inspired to compliment our heroes Bafana Bafana. Bafana Bafana has made us proud with their great performance.

I also thank the citizens of South Africa for the support they have shown to our national team. May we continue to do this until our dreams come true.

With the necessary arrangements and the preparations for the Fifa Confederations Cup 2009 put in place, we proved to the whole world that we can and we are able. I would be making a mistake if I did not thank … [Interjections.]]

… our Local Organising Committee for a job well done. Keep up the good work! You have made us proud. [Applause.]

This event was to showcase what we want. We can and we will host a successful 2010 Fifa World Cup. The president of Fifa, Mr Sepp Blatter, rated us as 7,5 out of 10, but we will make sure that come the 2010 Fifa World Cup, we will get 10 out of 10. As South Africa, we will work hard to improve on the areas identified as weaknesses. I am not the only observer to notice the lack of support for sport and recreation programmes in our public schools and communities. Sport plays an important role in nation- building. What makes me uncomfortable, though, is when most people are reduced to being spectators, not even spectators in stands, but watching from the street due to their socioeconomic situation. What happened to that remarkable agenda of social transformation?

Sport is not only a physical activity, but also an area where people interact socially. It forms part of social life within communities. Cultures attach positive values to sport as it creates job opportunities and fosters nonviolence, fair competition, teamwork and respect. We call on all educators to support physical education at schools.

National symbols represent our identity as a country. Therefore, it is important for South Africans to take pride in these symbols. We need to create awareness and develop ways to create a sense of respect for our national symbols. The national flag is one example of these symbols. The flag represents a nation that is united in its diversity; it represents a rainbow nation, a nation in pursuit of peace and prosperity.

It is disgusting to see some sections of our society, particularly at rugby matches, waving the old South African flag. It shows disrespect, not only for the national flag, but also for South Africa as a democratic country.

Furthermore, if you look at the national anthem, more and more people do not know the words of the national anthem, and where people do know it, when you watch sporting events you see people are dancing to the national anthem as if it is some kwaito song. It is, therefore, important to teach our people the meaning and the value of our national symbols through public awareness programmes and through the mass media.

Go botlhokwa thata go godisa dipuo tsa rona tsa tlholego; go ruta bana ba rona maleme le setso sa rona sa Maaforika. Ke ntlha e e tlhobang boroko go bona bana ba Maaforika ba sa kgone go buisa le go kwala dipuo tsa bona. A re ruteng bana ba rona go tlotla le go ipela ka puo ya bona. A re femeng go jaka ka leleme. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[It is very important to develop our languages; to teach our kids our languages and our culture as Africans. It is an unnerving fact to see our African kids unable to read and write their own languages. May we teach our kids to respect and to be proud of their languages. May we try to avoid being influenced by other languages.]

Gender equality for women in sport and the right of women to participate is paramount. We call upon federations to develop programmes to facilitate true participation of women and remove barriers that prevent women from vocations in training, administration, coaching and management. Minister, it is high time now that we should be biased towards previously disadvantaged communities and not be apologetic about this.

As the select committee we will monitor the following: facilities built and upgraded; successes and weaknesses of mass participation; and federations that receive government monies but do not have developmental programmes.

I would like to congratulate the North West province for holding a successful Zone 6 games at Ikageng Township. We want to see more of these activities taken to townships and rural areas. Thank you.

Mnr M J R DE VILLIERS: Voorsitter van die Nasionale Raad van Provinsies, Ministers en agb lede van die Huis, ons voormalige President, Nelson Mandela, is absoluut korrek deur te sê: Sport has the power to change the world. It has the power to inspire. It has the power to unite people in a way that little else can. Sport can awake hope where there was previously only despair.

Voorsitter, hierdie aanhaling is ook baie gepas ten opsigte van kuns en kultuur, en daarom is dit net nie reg dat twee sulke belangrike poste in hierdie begrotingsdebat saamgegooi word nie. Dit doen afbreuk aan die status van die twee begrotingsposte, en daarom dink ek dit moet afsonderlik hanteer word.

Ek het baie respek daarvoor as die swepe dit so besluit het of as die Huis dit so besluit het, maar ons moet in die toekoms kyk of daar nie ’n ander manier is waarop dit hanteer kan word nie. Die rede hoekom ek dit sê, is omdat hierdie begrotingsposte, wat betref die land se mense, die ekonomie, armoede en nog baie ander dinge ’n baie groot rol kan speel.

Waardevolle items word bewaar vir die nageslag, en daarom moet dinge soos nasionale simbole, die landsvlag, monumente, museums en ook ander infrastruktuur bewaar word. Dit is net reg dat die departement die reklame hiervan baie meer intensief op alle gebiede van die land gaan aanpak.

Ons erfenisgeskiedenis moet ook baie meer deur middel van die toerismesektor en beherende besture bemark word, want erfenis en kultuur vertel ander lande en hul mense wat Suid-Afrika is en hoe sy mense verstaan en beskou kan word. Ons het ’n ryk geskiedenis van kulture, erfenisse en ander aantreklikhede vir toeriste, veral in die plattelandse gebiede wat heeltemal afgeskeep word in bemarking, en daarom moet ons baie meer intensief na hierdie gebiede uitreik. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, Ministers and hon members of the House, our former President, Nelson Mandela, is absolutely correct when he says:

Sport has the power to change the world. It has the power to inspire. It has the power to unite people in a way that little else can. Sport can awake hope where there was previously only despair.

Chairperson, this quote is also very fitting with regard to art and culture, and it is therefore not right that two Votes of such importance are thrown together in this budget debate. It detracts from the status of these Budget Votes, which is why I think they should be dealt with separately.

I have a lot of respect for the Whips’ decision or if it was the House that decided on this, but hereafter we must look at a different way of dealing with this. My reason for saying so is that as far as the people, the economy, poverty and many other things in this country are concerned, these Budget Votes can play a very major part. Valuable items are preserved for posterity and things such as national symbols, the country’s flag, monuments, museums as well as other infrastructure should therefore also be preserved. It is only right that the department is going to deal much more intensively with promotion in this regard in all spheres relating to this country.

The history of our heritage should also be marketed much more by way of the tourism sector and controlling authorities, because heritage and culture tell other countries and their people about South Africa and how its people should be understood and regarded. We have a rich history of culture, heritage and other attractions for tourists, especially in the rural areas which are totally neglected in our marketing, and we should therefore reach out much more intensively to these regions.]

We must implement risk management in all of our heritage institutions and resources, which the department already does. Our indigenous languages are assets which we don’t treasure enough. We would like to see that every person can speak his or her mother tongue and interpretation must be available in all our offices. Interpretation is absent in our committee rooms or doesn’t exist. This is wrong, and we must address that.

Thank you for planning to promote more choral music and especially to promote the writing of books in indigenous languages. It is very important that the writers must be those from the applicable culture.

A lot more can be said, but let me just say the following about schools…

… en die Minister het daaroor uitgewei. [… and the Minister expanded on that.]

Fewer schools have the training of choral music or art as a subject in their curriculum. We must also put more emphasis on this in schools.

En daarom sal ons dan ook hierdie agterstand en die probleme op voetsoolvlak regstel. [And that is why we will correct this backlog and the problems at grass-roots level.]

The Rugby World Cup that was held in South Africa a few years ago is a good example of nation-building. If a school or club wins a sport match, a lot of team spirit and pride is generated. Therefore, we must treasure all the tournaments in our country and make sure that each and every one of them is well organised and safe for the athletes, players and spectators.

Thank you very much for a successful 2009 Fifa Confederations Cup, a very well-organised Twenty20 cricket tournament and all the other successfully organised national and provincial commitments in the different parts of this department’s responsibility and all over in our country. It is so that we must broaden the mass participation in sport, but also in culture. A problem is …

… die leerders in die agtergeblewe gebiede, en veral in die ver plattelandse gebiede, vind dit baie moeilik om op streeksvlak, provinsiale vlak en nasionale vlak deel te neem. Die redes is legio en spruit onder meer voort uit armoede, afstande, gebrek aan ordentlike fasiliteite en ander. Selfs by plaaslike rade word sport en ontspanning, asook kuns en kultuur baie gering geag.

Ons sal ’n deeglike reklameprogram moet skep om hierdie probleem aan te spreek. Die departement is reeds hiermee besig, maar dit blyk asof daar nie voldoende inisiatief en geesdrif is om die bul by die horings te pak nie. Dit moet in alle sfere en dele van die gemeenskap geskied.

’n Baie groot uitdaging lê vir die land voor, naamlik die Wêreldbekersokkertoernooi in 2010. Die departement het rapporteer dat dit op elke gebied konsentreer om dinge so glad as moontlik te laat verloop, naamlik die lughaweverkeer, padverkeer, verblyf, sekuriteit, ontspanningsgeriewe en alles wat met so ’n toernooi gepaard gaan. Ons moet meer as 7,5 uit 10 kry, want ons is ’n nasie van uitnemendheid.

Voorsitter, ’n volledige vorderingsverslag van waar sportgeriewe, biblioteke, afrigtingskursusse vir afrigters en spelers, ens, beplan word, sal aan die komitee en sy lede beskikbaar gestel moet word sodat ons oorsigrol op ’n baie meer doeltreffende wyse kan geskied.

Ons sal ook ’n mate van ‘n vertoningsrekord-program moet ontwikkel sodat die persone en atlete wat afrigting ontvang het, of selfs presteer het, gemonitor en gevolg kan word. Dit sal dus die potensiële goeie talente wat deur die krake val, kan opspoor en betyds vir die bedryf red.

Die bedryfsprobleme wat in die Robbeneiland-museum ontstaan het, is ’n verleentheid en ’n belediging vir ons land en sy mense. Hierdie fasiliteit is een van die ikone vir Suid-Afrika. Die verantwoordelike mense het geensins die risikobestuurmodel konstruktief toegepas nie, of anders was nalatige bestuur die rede. Nooit kan sulke nalatigheid goedgekeur word nie. Die departement moet tot verantwoording geroep word om ’n volledige verslag van gebeure en die verloop daarvan te rapporteer. Ek dank u, Voorsitter. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[… that the learners in the underdeveloped areas, and in particular in the remote rural areas, find it extremely difficult to compete at regional, provincial and national level. The reasons are legion, arising, among others, from poverty, distances, a lack of proper facilities and so on. Even with the local councils, sport and recreation, as well as arts and culture, are very poorly regarded.

We will have to create a proper promotional programme to address this problem. The department is already busy in this regard, but it would seem as if there is a lack of initiative and enthusiasm to take the bull by the horns. This has to take place in all spheres and sectors of the community.

The country is facing a very big challenge, namely the 2010 Soccer World Cup Tournament. The department has reported that it is concentrating on every level in order to facilitate matters as smoothly as possible, namely airport traffic, road traffic, lodging, security, recreational facilities and everything that is occasioned by such a tournament. We have to achieve more than 7,5 out of 10, because we are a nation of excellence.

Chairperson, a complete progress report on where sports facilities, libraries, training courses for coaches and players, etc, are planned will have to be made available to the committee and its members so that our oversight function can take place in a much more efficient way.

To a certain extent we will also have to develop a performance record programme so that the persons and athletes who have received training, or may even have done well, can be monitored and observed. In this way any potentially good talent which might have fallen through the cracks can be tracked down in good time and saved for the profession.

The managerial problems that have developed at the Robben Island Museum are an embarrassment and insult to our country and its people. This facility is one of South Africa’s icons. The people responsible have totally failed in constructively applying the risk management model, or otherwise negligent management was the reason. Such negligence can never be condoned. The department should be called to account to produce a comprehensive report on the course of events. I thank you, Chairperson.]

The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers and hon members, we are at an important moment in our history as a nation where we have celebrated 15 years of democracy. We have also participated in the fourth national democratic elections, where our people came out in great numbers. This indeed was a show of commitment, a show of confidence in our new democracy.

Only last week we celebrated and marked the 54 years since the Congress of the People met in Kliptown when people from all walks of life gathered together to adopt the Freedom Charter. Today the Freedom Charter is part of our heritage and part of our political culture, and in our work we remain guided by the fundamental principles of the Freedom Charter such as “The people shall govern!” and also “The doors of learning and culture shall be opened to all!”

We have also just commemorated 33 years since that fateful day on 16 June when our young people stood up to fight for their rights and to fight for democracy. As we remember them, we have to ensure that what they fought for becomes part and parcel of this new democracy. We have already begun to intensify our work in promoting youth participation in programmes related to the advancement of our culture, heritage and the popularisation of our national symbols.

At the centre of our national effort is the transformation agenda to ensure that there shall be arts for all and that opportunities shall exist for every citizen to benefit from the knowledge and power that comes out of the arts, culture and heritage.

Our foremost mission in the Department of Arts and Culture is to build a cohesive society and ensure that we unite the nation. President Jacob Zuma has stated in his state of the nation address that we must do all we can to build cohesive, caring and sustainable communities.

We shall hold the first National Conference on Social Cohesion in KwaZulu- Natal later this year. The theme of this conference will be “Building a Caring Nation” and participation will come from civil society, our rural communities, faith-based organisations, traditional leaders, government and academics. We believe that we will be able to come out with a clear programme of action to guide and to lead our vision of a cohesive society and also a united nation.

We are also going to speed up the process of name changing because that has been a long-standing programme for this department. The SA Geographical Names Council is currently conducting national public hearings on the policy and procedures of standardising and also ensuring that we determine the place and focus of these changes.

We believe that almost all the provinces, except one province, have been finalised and we believe that in the coming financial year we will have finalised this process.

As part of our efforts to bring the arts to all our people we shall continue to ensure that community libraries are built in all our communities. The Department of Arts and Culture co-ordinates the implementation of the community libraries and recapitalisation programmes in partnership with various provinces.

In this financial year, we are planning to construct libraries in Khayelitsha, in the Western Cape; Mdantsane and Mount Ayliff in the Eastern Cape; in Mbazwana in KwaZulu-Natal; and Thulamela and Fetakgomo in Limpopo province. In the Northern Cape, we are rolling out container libraries to reach some of the most rural and remote areas.

This year the SA National Library for the Blind is 50 years old, and this means that we have succeeded in extending and making provision for Braille literature to community libraries. We are planning to reach out to more communities and ensure that this facility is accessible to all our communities, but we are also looking at some of the neighbouring countries that have also raised an interest in this facility.

A new state-of-the-art National Library of South Africa has been completed and was launched early this year by the former Minister. We shall also support the formation of book clubs at all community libraries to encourage the culture of reading and writing, particularly amongst our rural communities and our young people.

Through the National Library of South Africa we have reprinted 24 titles of classical African languages books that have been redistributed to libraries throughout the country. We are indeed committed to ensuring that our indigenous languages do not die. This is but one of some of the projects that we have put in place to ensure that we revive African literature and make it accessible to all South Africans through our community libraries.

We are also awarding language bursaries to 90 students this financial year to help build capacity in the language profession. Through this we will be able to prioritise students that are interested in studying African languages.

The Library Transformation Charter initiated by the National Council of Library and Information Services and the department will be finalised this year. The department will introduce a National Community Library and Information Services Bill to set the framework for norms and standards in the provision and regulation of community libraries and information services.

We have also expanded our investment in culture programmes to ensure that it becomes part and parcel of the fight or the war against poverty and also contributes to job creation through the EPWP.

Through the filming industry, we are also encouraging the development of local content and support the National Filming and Video Foundation. Funds have been allocated for training and growing the audience in townships and rural areas. Together with the foundation, we are looking at the best ways of setting up co-operatives in rural areas that will focus on bringing cinemas to our people and developing skills in areas related to film production.

I also want to mention, especially with regard to women, that we shall develop a gender focal unit in the department that will ensure that we mainstream gender and run meaningful women’s empowerment programmes. We are also looking at the national Women’s Month where we shall declare the graves of our great heroines and freedom fighters, Lilian Ngoyi and Helen Joseph, national monuments. In March next year we shall hold the first Dulcie September Memorial Lecture at the University of the Western Cape, dedicated to honouring her role and work in promoting human rights.

We shall continue also to look at more concrete ways of recognising the important contribution of women and the role they have played in our communities and in the liberation struggle.

In the department we have legacy projects that we are continuing to work on nationally. These include the Matola Raid Project which is in Matola, Mozambique, and also the O R Tambo Project which will be a statue of O R Tambo that will be built in Mbizana, in the O R Tambo District.

My predecessor announced the collaborative projects with the Dutch government where we are going to look at the roots of the Afrikaans language, including the contribution of the Malay people and the people of South Africa.

An international seminar and festival will take place during Heritage Month, in September, at UWC, where Dutch and South African academics will participate. The overall theme of this conference is “Spreek, Thetha, Talk.” We believe that through this programme, we will be able to strengthen our solidarity and relationship with the Netherlands that was built during the hard years of struggle.

I want to report to this House that the Robben Island Council and the interim chief executive officer, CEO, resigned about a week after I became a new Minister, and I accepted their resignation. We have appointed an interim CEO whilst we have advertised for a new CEO and a new council in all the national newspapers. We will make sure that we speed up the appointment of the new CEO and council. In the meantime the interim CEO is Professor Henry Bredekamp and he is supported by senior officials of the department, Mr Mzukusi Madlavu, Mr Vusi Ndima, Mr Mike Rennie and Ms Sibongile Van Damme.

While the interim team will address the challenges that we have at the moment, I am confident that the new council will be in place in due course.

I am also happy to announce that the Integrated Conservation Management Plan of Robben Island Museum has been tabled and accepted at Unesco by delegates from our department and the Department of Water and Environmental Affairs. It was tabled at the 33rd session of the World Heritage Committee of Unesco in Seville, in Spain. I would like, therefore, to say to hon members this is indeed an important icon of our country; we cannot use it as a political football. I think the people of the world have confidence in us and I think South Africans must also begin to be patriotic and to unite — all of us — around this important heritage that …

… sayishiyelwa ngabadala, ziinkonde … [… has been left for us by our elders, the veterans…]

… and the ancestors of our struggle.

My predecessor, Dr Pallo Jordan, on heritage, announced South Africa’s intention to ratify the 2003 Unesco Convention on Intangible Cultural Heritage, as well as develop a national policy on living heritage. I am happy to report that we have concluded drafting the national policy and will also embark on public consultations in due course.

Heritage makes a significant yet unacknowledged contribution to the economic development of our country and job creation. We are working on a study on heritage and economic development and have completed a heritage skills audit to help us develop this sector.

I am happy to report that on 1 April 2009, we were able to declare Freedom Park a cultural institution. We have now appointed a new council for Freedom Park and we are looking forward to including this project in due course, in the next two years. We are working together with the Freedom Park council and the Department of Public Works on this aspect to ensure we conclude it in time. I was just going to congratulate Bafana Bafana, the Minister of Sport and the local organising committee for a job well done. You have done us proud! [Applause.]

Ndizani Bafana, ndizani! [Do us proud, Bafana Bafana!]

Mr S H PLAATJIE: Chairperson, hon members, Minister, I know that the department has seriously noted the potential of school sport, in particular, to unite the nation’s narrow racial divide and make the nation be at peace. Let me join the lamentations of other members who have spoken here that school sport, in the main, is highly neglected. I appreciate the fact that the Minister has noted that there is slow progress in school sport, particularly in the North West and other provinces.

I would be interested in receiving the report that the department has been compiling over the past five years on the mass-based school sport activities to gauge what is going on, which qualifies to be called “mass- based”.

The department’s policy on school sport is deficient, unimaginative and inadequate. As it is a core function of the department to produce these reports on mass-based school sport, therefore, I will wait anxiously to be shown what is contained in those reports so that we are able to see that farm and rural schools in particular are also participating in this activity.

In conclusion, we need to strengthen the policy on school sport, particularly in rural and farm areas, to make sure that these programmes are properly monitored. As we do oversight, all of us must make sure that the learners are participating actively in school sport. Attention should also be paid to the training of teachers as coaches. I have noted what the Minister said about the two days that have been set aside for this particular exercise. Thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Chairperson, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members, senior management of the departments, ladies and gentlemen, government acknowledges the important task of addressing the legacy of apartheid to ensure that all our people experience the benefits of freedom.

The deliberate neglect of rural areas causes serious harm to our communities. The majority of South Africans were confined to the Bantustans and townships that were totally neglected. As we all know, even the townships, which were largely created in urban areas, had relatively little development, which did not meet the bare minimum needs of our people. Townships were created merely to provide labour for the factories and domestic needs of the minority.

Laws were created to ensure that our people could not feed themselves anymore and thus were forced to seek employment away from their places of residence. Urbanisation and its concomitant social economic ills were unleashed upon us. It is for this reason that the ANC-led government in 1994 recognised a need for a process to reconstruct our country.

Rural development, which represents the constituencies of members of this House, continues to be one of the priority areas of our government. This government is committed to tackling the social ills through the social cohesion programme, which is led by the Department of Arts and Culture. Our sector plays a significant role in social regeneration, unity and reconciliation.

We have identified the popularisation of national symbols, national days and the standardisation of geographical names in South Africa as pillars of our strategy to foster national identity. We will install South African flags in all schools and promote the proper singing of the national anthem.

We have launched the Fly the Flag Campaign for soccer in collaboration with other stakeholders in April 2009. The aim of the campaign is to encourage patriotism and use the excitement created by the Confederations Cup to promote national symbols. We have, so far, distributed more than 100 000 hand-held flags to South Africans across the country.

Between the months of May to June 2009, our campaign focused on the four Fifa Confederations Cup host cities, namely Bloemfontein, Johannesburg, Pretoria and Rustenburg. A total of two days were spent at each city. The first day involved the branded double-decker bus that drove through each city and stopped at each taxi rank. Hand-held flags were distributed, as well information pamphlets on national symbols. We conducted competitions in the singing of the national anthem where each winner was given four Confederations Cup tickets.

The second day was dedicated to university campuses where students were treated to music by popular DJs and similar competitions on national symbols were conducted. From 20 May to 3 June 2009 we visited the Central University of Technology in Bloemfontein, the University of Johannesburg, North West University in Mafikeng and Tshwane University of Technology.

Our department continues to promote oral history as part of our efforts to ensure that our heritage landscape is indeed reflective of our national memory and contributes to nation-building and identity. We will promote oral history, especially among marginalised communities whose heritage and history have been ignored for many years. Later this year we will host the Annual National Oral History Conference in Cape Town to ensure that we preserve the rich heritage of our nation for posterity.

The ANC-led government is committed to the principle of universal access to the arts as stated in our Constitution. This means that we must provide the necessary infrastructure to enable people, particularly in rural areas, to practise their art. Currently we have a lot of art centres throughout the country, but some of them are dysfunctional and do not have the necessary programmes that respond to the needs of the people.

We have decided to come up with a revitalisation programme to ensure that the art centres continue to serve our communities. This year, we will establish a cultural centre of excellence per province. The plan is to use these centres as flagships or models for the rest of community art centres in the provinces. The plan is ultimately to restore quality art programmes in all our centres.

We will support the promotion of people’s art in community art centres through encouraging local theatre and music groups, local cultural forms of expression and other creative work. The national government will provide training in the management of art centres and ensure that programming is effective, that is, that these centres are used for what they were created for. Provincial and local government spheres will be responsible for the day-to-day management of the centres.

Choral music continues to be one of our main forms of cultural expression. Every community has some form of a choir and we regard this art form as very participatory in nature, because it is practised by both the young and the old in our society. We will conduct nationwide consultation with the sector to ensure that our policy framework represents the aspirations of our people.

Part of the Department of Arts and Culture’s mandate is also to develop and promote our official languages. In this financial year, we will table before Cabinet the South African language practitioners Bill for promulgation. We’ll also have an annual campaign to promote multilingualism with effect from this financial year. We will continue to assist departments and provinces to establish their language units.

Creative industries make a significant contribution to job creation, particularly in rural areas. South Africa, notwithstanding its rich history of beading, does not produce beads, but imports them from other countries. The department is currently working with our embassy in the Czech Republic and factories in that country towards the possible establishment of partnerships. This will ensure that our crafters will buy the materials here at home at a better price and work from their bases in the provinces.

Our department has also identified the technical services and events industry as an important element of economic and job creation. We have completed a study to reposition and transform this key industry to ensure that jobs and business opportunities for previously disadvantaged individuals are created. Government is a key consumer of the technical services through its various events and exhibitions. We must make sure that we use this muscle.

This year, South Africa, together with other nations of the world, will celebrate the life, values and ideas of Isithwalandwe Nelson Mandela. July 18 has been declared Nelson Mandela Day. We call upon everyone to dedicate 67 minutes of their time on July 18 for the goodwill of others and service to humanity. The Department of Arts and Culture, together with Parliament, will co-ordinate government’s participation in the activities planned for the Mandela Day. I therefore urge all members of this House to participate in this programme.

In conclusion, I would also like to take this opportunity to congratulate our soccer team, Bafana Bafana, for their excellent performance during the Confederations Cup. Our department will continue to work with the local organising committee to ensure that we present an unforgettable African experience. There is no doubt that the world has been bowled over, not only by our ability to organise large events, but also by our culture, customs, cuisines and heritage. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr O DE BEER: Chairperson, members of this House, the policy of the department is aimed at contributing to growth, employment, poverty alleviation, national reconciliation, nation-building and social coherence. As we are in a recession and hundreds of thousands of people are out of work, it is natural for the House to be interested in seeing how the department has contributed to employment creation and poverty alleviation. Has it shifted up a gear in the past few months to accelerate growth in the number of jobs and improve poverty alleviation to counter the suffering of our people?

We must also not forget that the department has developed a detailed plan and programme of activities building up to the 2010 Fifa World Cup in order to focus on performing visual and literacy arts and on legacy and heritage. This means that the department has been attending to the problem of poverty and the lack of jobs. This should result in at least a four-fold increase in job opportunities than is normally the case.

The world of arts is inspired by imagination. The Department of Arts and Culture therefore should be the most creative of all government departments. Now that our economy is in crisis, the department should be coming to the fore with innovative ideas.

One of the department’s core functions is to promote social coherence through arts and culture. This is a fantastic goal. What are the outputs thereof? Thank you.

Ms B V MNCUBE: Hon Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, Ministers, Deputy Ministers, members of the executive here today, hon members, heads of departments, it is a great honour today to stand in front of you at this very important gathering and give my maiden speech or input.

We are gathered here during the month we celebrate the birthday of our respected icon, Comrade Rolihlahla Mandela. I would like to wish him a happy birthday in advance.

I would also like to join the world by paying tribute to the fallen world- renowned artist, Michael Jackson. May his soul rest in peace.

We welcome the debate on Vote No 12, and it reminds me of a clause in the Freedom Charter:

The doors of learning and culture shall be opened! The government shall discover, develop and encourage national talent for the enhancement of our cultural life; All the cultural treasures of mankind shall be open to all, by free exchange of books, ideas and contact with other lands; The aim of education shall be to teach the youth to love their people and their culture, to honour human brotherhood, liberty and peace …

In the ANC manifesto, which we were selling to each and every house prior to the elections, we talked about prioritising youth development. This department can play a vital role in bringing hope to this generation - a generation which is unemployed and disillusioned as they feel that this government does not care about them - by providing an enabling environment for talent identification, nurturing and the promotion thereof. Hence, we are happy to see that the strategic framework focuses on arts, social development and the youth and has measurable outputs, and we hope there will be close working relations with the National Youth Development Agency. By working together with the youth in the first and second economies, we will contribute towards the creation of the 500 000 jobs.

With regard to arts and culture in society, we welcome this objective which links very well with the creation of jobs and sustainable livelihoods. This will address the problems facing emerging artists or people who are active in cultural activities who migrate to Gauteng, Durban and Cape Town looking for greener pastures and better exposure. We hope that this can also be linked to rural development so that all provinces can receive equal exposure by having data on any artistic or cultural item in a databank irrespective of where they reside.

An example I want to share with you is of 1 May 2009, when we celebrated Workers Day and had booked three established artists. However, we had a list of more than 10 local artists of Babelegi or Themba who performed free of charge just for the purpose of exposure. We therefore hope that all the codes of arts and culture will receive similar attention and be promoted and documented in terms of the “Proudly South African” and “Local is Lekker” campaigns and that this will also include “Abomadluphuthu ekasi.”

In terms of the promotion of arts centres, we hope that the arts centres will include even those marginalised women in the most rural areas and townships who are known in the communities, but have no access to arts centres.

We therefore call for the maximisation of the centres to include community- based organisations and individuals who are doing beading, and making traditional clothes, pottery and artwork so that through their products they will also enjoy a better life and build the South African economy. This reminds me that I chose to buy my Venda attire from Venda, but I cannot refer anyone there because it is not branded. We need a strategy to empower these women to market their products. We hope that the department will promote the co-ops even in the rural areas.

On promoting the arts, culture and heritage, education and training, we welcome this collaboration with the Department of Education, which will promote arts and culture as a learning area beyond Grade 9. This is because, currently, general education, which is Grades 1 to 9, is compulsory for all learners, but learners are not continuing with it in Grades 10 to 12 — secondary schools — owing to the nonavailability of teachers. Schools are not offering it beyond Grade 9 and because a career in and the importance of arts and culture are being downplayed, we are losing potential artists, drawers, painters, etc.

This will motivate educators to upgrade their skills and knowledge and enable them to teach it beyond Grade 9. We hope that educators from the rural areas and townships will be exposed to this project and that there will be more schools focused on this subject than what we have currently in Gauteng — Daveyton and Braamfontein — as most of the learners get left out.

With regard to support for the emancipation of women in South Africa through arts, culture and heritage programmes, we hope that these programmes can be extended to all emerging well-established women involved in arts, culture and heritage in order to curb women abuse, corruption and unscrupulous promoters so that the women can become skilled, empowered and independent, and not be at the mercy of someone who dumps them after making millions out of them.

An example is a person who has established committee projects, with 10 or 20 women making traditional clothes and doing beading, but being paid only R200 while the products are exported — and the profits aren’t shared with the women in this project. This is rife in most of the provinces.

We welcome the National Language Service, NLS, initiative, which is aimed at promoting all South African languages in departments, as it is one way of giving us back our dignity and identity as a nation. Our Constitution allows for 11 official languages. However, English and Afrikaans are still predominantly used in almost all government departments and parastatals and also in schools. This limits the level of communication and inhibits the freedom of speech.

I am a living example of this. I facilitated a workshop on integrated quality management systems in English for department officials in Kimberley. Normally the workshop lasts from six to seven hours, but because of a lack of interpretation devices in a community of mostly Afrikaans speakers, I finished the workshop after only three hours.

When I enquired on my way back to Johannesburg about the noninteraction of the participants, I was advised that the issue was language. I felt so bad that I might not have done justice to them because of the language barrier. The documents that I had for the workshop were available only in English.

We welcome the development of provincial language policies as this is in line with the period of renewal. This objective will also go together with the Kha Ri Gude Mass Literacy Campaign and the development and promotion of our African languages from school to university level. We commend the political will of the former Limpopo MEC for Education and the former Western Cape MEC for Education on taking this process forward by extending it to the universities to … I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr I E JENNER (Western Cape): Hon Speaker, Chairperson, hon Ministers, members of the NCOP, when reflecting on the budget speech of the national Minister of Arts and Culture, the hon Xingwana, it is obvious that her department wants to promote access to a rich and productive cultural life for all our people.

Enkosi ngethemba olizisileyo. Iphondo, isizwe neAfrika iphela inemincili ngoku. [Thank you for the hope you have brought. The province, the nation and Africa at large are very excited now.]

As they say, to determine your destiny, you need to know where you come from.

We need to safeguard our arts and cultural richness in order to make our youth understand where they come from, and to preserve it for generations to come. Song and dance, in many ways, help to improve our social and interpersonal skills. They help us to develop unity and often help in bridging the gap between the rural and urban divides.

I believe the improvement of our social fibre can be achieved or even drastically changed, through the initiatives and projects envisaged by the Minister, such as the Arts for All, Investing in Culture and the 2010 Fifa World Cup legacy projects.

I want to believe that through the Investing in Culture programme, as indicated by the Minister, much can be done to ensure that the moral fibre of our society is restored.

In this province, Minister, we are faced, on a daily basis, with crime, gangsterism and drug abuse, and the latter has become rampant. I salute the Minister and her mission for wanting to do the following:

Through all these initiatives and our work through arts, culture and heritage, we aim to create a country where opportunities exist for all our people to expand their imaginations and to use their creativity in order to ensure a better and brighter future.

We commit ourselves, as the Western Cape department, to supporting the Minister. We will co-operate in order to deepen our democracy and to revive our rich cultural heritage.

Na die bevryding van ons land was daar op alle vlakke pogings op versoening en herstel, maar die mees vergete gedeelte van hierdie versoening, is die skade wat apartheid met betrekking tot identiteit, taal en kultuur berokken het. Dit was minimaal aangespreek.

Hierdie bloedspoor het baie inheemse tale, kulture en tradisies laat verdwyn en dus verwelkom ons die Minister se hernieude herlewingspoging om die klem van kultuurherstel in ons gemeenskappe te vestig. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[After the liberation of our country there were attempts at reconciliation and reparation at all levels, but the most neglected part of this process of reconciliation is the damage that apartheid caused to identity, language and culture. It was scantily addressed.

This trail of blood caused the disappearance of many indigenous languages, cultures and traditions, and therefore we welcome the Minister’s renewed efforts to revive the emphasis on restoring culture in our communities.]

Enkosi nangethemba olizisileyo. Iphondo, isizwe neAfrika inemincili ngoku. [Thank you for the hope you have brought. The province, the nation and Africa at large are very excited now.]

However, what stands out to me in the Minister’s address is the notion shared by both myself and my department on the role of sport in society, and I quote:

It is capable of evoking national solidarity in mourning, but it is also capable of lifting the spirits of a nation to unprecedented heights. Indeed, an effective catalyst for social cohesion.

My department has adopted a phrase, “A child in sport is a child out of court”, which signifies our efforts to ensure that sport can make a difference, not only as a catalyst for social cohesion, but also as an alternative to drug abuse, gangterism and crime.

Ek stem beslis saam met u, Minister, dat Suid-Afrikaanse sport lewendig en kompeterend is, maar dat ons steeds deur uitdagings gekonfronteer word. Ek moet ook u sentiment ondersteun dat die gaping tussen stedelike en plattelandse areas in sport nog steeds bestaan. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[I definitely agree with you, Minister, that South African sport is vibrant and competitive, but that we are still confronted with challenges. I have to support your sentiments that in sport the gap between urban and rural areas still exists.]

I have maintained, since taking up my position, that talent is everywhere to be found in this country, but the nurturing and growing of this talent, especially in rural areas, is of concern.

However, I would in the same breath like to say that in the run-up to the upcoming 2010 Fifa World Cup, through the soccer ambassadors programme, my department is busy identifying talent and nurturing it by giving training, coaching and mentoring to up-and-coming soccer stars and their coaches throughout the province.

Using sport has gone a long way towards attempting to bridge the divide between urban and rural areas.

It delights me that the national Minister stated:

We will not tire in our efforts to maximise access, development and excellence at all levels of participation in sport and recreation, in order to improve the social cohesion, nation-building and the quality of life for all South Africans.

With the emphasis on all South Africans, sport can help to heal the injustices of the past and the present by playing a further unifying role in our young democracy.

In conclusion, I would like to say that it is obvious that South Africa is a sport-loving nation. Sport has in many ways helped us to overcome our dark past. To see children of all races and backgrounds excelling in the sport of their choice illustrates to me that as a collective in sport, we are doing something right.

Enkosi nangethemba olizisileyo. Iphondo, isizwe neAfrika iphela inemincili ngoku. [Thank you for the hope you have brought. The province, the nation and Africa at large are very excited now.]

UMntwana M M M ZULU: Mabhoko, Sihlalo waleNdlu, oNgqongqoshe abakhona, oWezemidlalo, Wezobuciko, Wezamaphoyisa namaSekela abo, amalunga ahloniphekile aleNdlu, uNgqongqoshe wase-Western Cape.

Ngithi kuNgqongqoshe Wezemidlalo angikuhalalisele mnewethu ngokuthi ubhekene nomthwalo wesizwe ngokuba lelizwe lethu libe nemidlalo emihle enokuhlonipheka njengesizwe. Ngithi-ke yikhona lokho amaqhawe omzabalazo ayekulwela ukuthi izwe lethu ligcine lihloniphekile futhi lenze izinto ezihloniphekile esizweni. Ngithi egameni leNkatha Yenkululeko ngikufisela inhlanhla nokuthi ngiyasesekela isabiwomali sakho salonyaka esibhekene nawo.

Ngibuye ngize kuNgqongqoshe Wezobuciko neSekela lakhe kanye Nabaphathi beMinyango ethile, ngithi izithembiso zakho Sekela zinhle ukuthi izilimi zethu njengamaAfrika nizozimela. Mina njengomunye kawendlu kaSolomoni kaDinizulu kufuneka ngikuqiniseke ukuthi izilimi njengamaNguni ziyamelwa, kungakho ngikhuluma lolu ngoba angizenyezi nakancane ngoba ngikhuluma entshonalanga yezwe laseAfrika esikulona lapha.

Ngithi ubabomkhulu uCetshwayo wahamba la ehlukunyezwa amaNgisi wama khona kuzo lezi zindawo. Ngithi ngaleyo ndlela angiziboni ngiseNgilandi ngizibona ngiseAfrika eyalelwa yiwo wonke amaqhawe omzabalazo nabantu bakithi bonke abampisholo ababecindezelwe babelwela khona ukuthi zikhululeke izilimi zethu. Ngithi uMnyango wenu boNgqongqoshe kufanele nenze lokho okushiwo uMongameli wezwe ukuthi kumele kube khona imihlangano, nihlangane ukuba nibone ukuthi uhulumeni wokubambisana usebenza ngendlela eyiyonayona yini. Ukuze kuzwakale ukuthi emaNyuvesi ethu izilimi zethu ziyakhulunywa. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)

[Prince M M M ZULU: Mabhoko, Chairperson of this House, Ministers of Sport, Arts, Police and their deputies, hon members of this House and also the Premier of the Western Cape, I greet you all.

To the Minister of Sport and Recreation I want to say congratulations, my brother, because our country has successfully and with dignity hosted many sporting events. Therefore, I confirm that that is what our heroes and heroines struggled for, to restore our dignity as a country by doing good things for the nation. On behalf of the Inkatha Freedom Party I wish you good luck. We support your budget for this year.

And coming to the Minister of Arts and Culture and her deputy, as well as the heads of the department, I am saying that your promise, Deputy Minister, that you are committed to the development of our African languages is appreciated. As a member of the Royal household of King Solomon, who is the son of King Dinizulu, I must ensure that the Nguni languages are represented, which is why I am speaking this language now because I am not ashamed at all to speak it here in the western part of Africa.

I think it was around here where my great grandfather Cetshwayo was harassed by the English regime. He ended up in this area. I therefore do not see myself in England, but in Africa, which all our heroes, and all black people in particular who were oppressed, fought to defend. They fought for the freedom of our languages. I am saying that your department, Minister, and your deputy must do what the President says and that is that there must be intergovernmental meetings, to see if co-operative governance is working according to plan, so that we can have our languages spoken at the universities. Thank you. [Applause.]]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Chairperson, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers and hon members, having presented our budget speech yesterday to the National Assembly, much is obviously fresh in our minds. I fully support that we focus on the issue of sport in the context of education because we all know its value, as well as the symbiotic relationship which exists between education and sport. It is therefore also important that we reflect on the partnership with the Department of Basic Education in delivering school sport.

Now, under the leadership of Minister Stofile, we have a predictable calendar for schools sport for this year, 2009. That is an enormous step forward because schools are now better able to plan for their schools sport and extracurricular sporting activities. As we try to cater for sporting activities of up to 12 million learners of this country, we must seriously reflect on whether our budget of R22 million nationally for competitive sport is sufficient.

Last year we were able to support about 7 900 learners to participate in national championships with a total budget of R27 million. The fact is we face a reduction budget while we should be expanding our programmes to get more than 1% of schools involved in sports activities.

If we are ready to have a major and long-lasting impact on life-long physical activity, we have to be able to get more of our learners involved in sport. Our School Sport Mass Participation Programme supports 3 200 quintile 1 schools, and as a result the provinces which receive the conditional grant have to continue to support the same school each year.

Again, this number of schools is not much more than 10% of the total number of schools in our system. And, even though many schools are able to cater adequately for both physical education and co-operative sport, this indicates clearly that we have much work left to do.

Within the conditional grant for this year, we have allocated R108 million which goes mainly, but not exclusively, to the School Sport Mass Participation Programme. In fact, in real rand terms this is the equivalent of R9,00 per learner per annum. Yet we know that the benefits of physical educational and school sport are many: long-term health benefits, stronger and more secure communities, closer family units, breaking down social and cultural barriers, teaching people about respect for others and property and giving people a sense of purpose — and the list is endless.

Research in the United Kingdom, since 2002, showed that specialist sports schools and schools with physical education and a sport focus have demonstrated improved grades and reported a reduction in truancy.

A report on sports participation trends in South Africa, released in 2008 by Body Mass Index, BMI, Sponsortrack, as part of the series published annually since 1986, tells a story of juniors in the 13 to 18-year-old category in terms of sports participation. It is interesting that the total number of 13 to 18-year-old sports participants exceeded 8,1 million in

  1. This number includes those who participate in more than one sport.

The top five sports codes on the list account for 48% of all participants, while the first 10 account for 67% of all junior participants. The overall junior sports participants profile is 61% blacks, 90% whites, 14% coloured and 6% Asian. That’s according to the statistics of the BMI report.

We clearly have much work to do, particularly if we are to meet our obligations in terms of the International Charter of Physical Education and Sport of 1978 which states:

Every human being has a fundamental right of access to physical education and sport, which are essential for the full development of his or her personality. The freedom to develop physical, intellectual and moral powers through physical education and sport must be guaranteed both within the educational system and in other aspects of social life.

This is, indeed, of concern because many of our schools do not have adequate facilities for physical education and sport. Learners are playing on uneven ground and, in some instances, walking long distances to other facilities or trying to make use of municipal facilities which are often locked. Equipment, where it exists, is often locked up and not used for the purpose it was intended for.

The biggest challenge we have to face is the need to train educators in physical education in order to be able to unleash the talent that exists amongst our learners. To the MEC in the Western Cape I want to say we have already started with the process of training educators in administration, event co-ordination and coaching at the basic level, but this is quite different from physical education.

On a positive note, we have worked closely with the Department of Basic Education, the 2010 Fifa World Cup Organising Committee and the SA Broadcasting Corporation to run a successful South African Schools Football World Cup. This has captured the imagination of over 7 000 schools which registered to participate from all corners of South Africa. Boys and girls in the under-14 and under-18 age groups battled it out on soccer fields of various standards to make it to the finals, which were held in May 2009, in Johannesburg.

In line with the lessons learned from that, we are now sending out the challenge to the provinces in both education and sport and recreation to align this programme with the SA Football Association, Safa, and Fifa age groups of under-13, -15 and -17 so that it can serve as a feeder system to Safa in terms of talent identification and development.

We, as government, have to support the federations, and this is exactly what we intend to do. We also expect many more schools to register, not only because the project is a good one, but also because of the attraction generated by South Africa hosting a very successful Confederations Cup. “Sport is a powerful nation-building tool”, said President Zuma, this year, in his state of the nation address. It is therefore incumbent on us to deliver school sports as one of the important parts of our armour in building a powerful sports nation called South Africa.

On this team of youth, we also had the privilege of hosting the Supreme Council of Sport in Africa Zone 6 Youth Games in Potchefstroom, Tlokwe, in December 2007. We trained 600 young people as volunteers and 700 children of the North West province were trained for magnificent gymnastic displays at both the opening and closing ceremonies. Local infrastructure, particularly sports facilities, were upgraded through a much appreciated grant from the National Lottery Distribution Fund, leaving a legacy that we are proud of, a legacy I hope they will treasure.

I would like to thank my colleagues from the North West province and the town of Potchefstroom for their invaluable support in raising the bar in the level of organisation of these games. Our young people made us proud by scooping 56 gold, 40 silver and 14 bronze medals. I want to report that we have finally implemented the pilot project on Sport for Peace and Development. Minister Stofile has said to me, more than once, that it’s good for us to contribute to Sport for Peace and Development in other countries, but we also need to refine that concept here at home.

Our department has now taken this message on board and is working very closely with the Department of Police on what we call “sport for safety”. We have to acknowledge the pioneering work done by our partners from the United Kingdom – we are talking about the British High Commission, British Airways, the Metropolitan Police, specifically the Southwark Police Station in London, and the Charlton Athletic Football Club. They have partnered with Ajax Cape Town and the South African police stations in Khayelitsha and Mitchells Plain, Bidvest Wits in Hillbrow and Alexandra, and recently AmaZulu in kwaMashu.

With the focus on schools, it’s important that we work with both the South African Police and the Department of Basic Education in close co-operation to ensure that we collectively meet our government’s commitment to reduce crime, particularly among the youth. This is a national imperative and we are committed to working in this collaborative way to ensure progress so that we can, in the near future, roll it out with additional partners, our provincial colleagues, the national provincial sports councils and the local government.

The President, in his state of the nation address, stated that —

It is clear that we need to invest on a large scale in sports development. We will speed up the revival of school sport and ensure that it forms part of the school curriculum. In addition, we will ensure that the provision of sports facilities in poorer communities receives priority.

As this is an issue very close to my heart and that of Minister Stofile, we once again have to raise the issue of basic sports facilities in our communities, particularly in our rural areas. That will enforce our commitment to rural development. I thank you. My time has expired. What a pity! [Applause.]

Mr J J GUNDA: Chair, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon MECs and hon members, irrespective of race, culture, religious beliefs and language, all of us know that sport has the potential to unite and heal our nation.

In his state of the nation address, President Jacob Zuma said:

It is clear that we need to invest on a large scale in sports development. We will speed up the revival of school sport and ensure that it forms part of the school curriculum. In addition, we will ensure that the provision of sports facilities in poorer communities receives priority.

Agb Voorsitter, ek wil net hierby aansluit. Die Adjunkminister het nou gesê dit lê baie na aan sy hart. Ek wil hom uitdaag. Ek wil hom Noord-Kaap toe stuur. Ek wil hom vra om toe te sien dat die skole in Upington, die Kalahari en Mier ordentlike sportgeriewe kry, sodat ons kinders kan vorder, minder misdaad kan pleeg en sodat hulle iewers kan kom.

Dit help nie iets klink goed in teorie, maar op die grondvlak bereik dit nooit die mense nie. Ek wil hom en die Minister ook uitdaag om te sorg dat Safa se Vodacom League minder “corrupt” is, sodat die mense wat sport beoefen darem êrens kan kom. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Hon Chair, I just want to add to this. The Deputy Minister has just said that the matter is near to his heart. I would like to challenge him. I want to send him to the Northern Cape. I would like to ask him to see to it that the schools in Upington, the Kalahari and Mier get decent sporting facilities, so that our children can progress, commit less crime, and so that they can get ahead.

It does not help that in theory something sounds good, but then it never reaches the people at grass-roots level. I would like to challenge him and the Minister to see to it that Safa’s Vodacom League is less corrupt so that people who practise sport can actually get ahead.]

During the National Primary Schools Athletics Championships in March this year, the North West under-11 and under-13 teams were lily white — pure white. How can that be possible? That shows that the transformation we pay lip service to still has a long way to go.

This is a disgrace for school sport after 15 years of freedom, which people have paid for with their lives, and our government must take responsibility for this and take action on this.

More emphasis must be placed on transformation development and the building of facilities for poorer communities, as I have said previously.

I would also like to take this opportunity to congratulate the organisers of the Confederations Cup on a job well done.

Something else that we really must take very seriously is that …

… die Khoisan-tale moet ernstig aandag begin kry, sodat ons mense … As ons praat van Suid-Afrikaners, as ons praat van … [… the Khoisan languages require urgent attention, in order for our people … If we talk about South Africans, if we talk about …]

… Africans, we must include the Khoisan people, not exclude them. There is a language that we need to learn. They are also valuable, like each and every one of us sitting here today.

Die biblioteke: Ek hoop die Minister is ernstig as sy sê die biblioteke gaan reg wees — nie gemeenskapsbiblioteke met Huisgenoot nie, maar gemeenskapsbiblioteke wat ons kinders se verstand kan laat oopskiet, sodat hulle lief kan word vir lees en kan groei. Baie dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The libraries: I hope that the Minister is serious when she says that the libraries will be ready – not community libraries that only have Huisgenoot, but community libraries that can stimulate our children’s minds, in order for them to become fond of reading and to develop. Thank you.]

Mr T A MASHAMAITE: Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, director- general …

…re a le dumediša. Re a lotšha, mohl Tona. Mohl Tona, ge e ka se rage, e tlo tlatša kgamelo. Ge e ka se rage, e tlo tlatša kgamelo! [… I greet you all. Greetings to the hon Minister. Hon Minister, I sense trouble here! I sense trouble here!]

It is true that sport has the power to change the world, to inspire and to unite people. And sport can also build a sustainable relationship and friendship between individual participants from different sporting codes.

The Department of Sport and Recreation has a huge responsibility in ensuring that powers assigned to the department, which are in line with the Constitution of South Africa, develop and implement policies regarding sport and recreation.

In his state of the nation address, the President said that sport can contribute to the following: the development in rural areas, strengthening skills and human resources, improve the health of all South Africans, build cohesive, caring and sustainable communities and enhance international co- operation.

Re a tseba gore bjale ka Ma-Afrika Borwa re ikemišeditše go swara thonamente yeo e bitšwago gore ke Mogope wa Lefase wa 2010. Gape re bontšhitše ka dipapadi tša maloba gore thonamente re ka e swara. Bjale ga re belaele gore Kgoro ya Dipapadi le Boitapolo šo ya rena e eme malala a laotšwe gore e tle e kgone go swara dipapadi tšeo ka bokgwari bo bo makatšang bo e lego gore lefase kamoka le tla makala — ba tla šala ba jele makeba makalo. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[We know that as South Africans we are ready to host the World Cup 2010 tournament. We proved in the previous games that we can host the tournament. So we have no doubt that our Department of Sport and Recreation is ready to host the games in an excellent way — a way that will surprise the whole world.]

Indeed, if we are a country which is serious and we want to be a shining country amongst the countries in the world, we must take sport very seriously. We must also go all out in a talent search in sport and nurture that talent. We can’t attain the power to inspire and we cannot unite the nation if we don’t strengthen mass participation.

With regard to school sport, during my school days, every Wednesday of the week was dedicated to sport. I must declare in this august House that I was a soccer player during my time. And I was a star! [Laughter.] [Applause.]

The Department of Sport and Recreation must ensure that they speed up their service level agreement with the Department of Education so that we can take sport to the schools and realise the talent search that I am referring to.

Ka gobane ge re sa dire ka mokgwa woo, re tla be re fenya goba re gatakela ditokelo tša bana ba rena. Re tla be re gatakela polelo yela ya moswana a rego kgakakgolo ga ke na mabala, mabala a na le kgakana. Re tla ba re gatelela polelo yela ya moswana ya gore, mmala wa phala o bonala phalaneng. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[If we do not do that, we will be violating our children’s rights. We will be going against the old expression that states that the good deeds of adults are always visible in their offspring.]

We cannot talk of talent search in improving sport without providing facilities. If you go to rural areas like GaMatlala and GaSekhukhune, in all the schools in those areas there is not even a single tennis court…

… e agilwego, mapatlelo kamoka ke mobu feela. [… that has been constructed; all the sports fields are full of mud.]

There is not even a soccer field…

… yeo o tla e humanago e le gore e na le bjang mo go yona. [… with grass on it.]

Therefore, we can’t talk of improving sport while we don’t provide facilities. But we hope that with the budget allocated to the department …

… ba tla kgona gore di ditlabakelo tšeo di be gona mafelong ao kamoka. [… they will be able to provide those facilities to those areas.]

The department has set five objectives for itself. Each objective has more than five key strategic areas.

Ke moo ke bolelang ka tshepho e feletšeng ke re, go ya ka kabotekanyetšo yeo ba e abetšego kgoro, ge e ka se rage e tlo tlatša gamelo. [That is why I am saying confidently that, with the budget allocated to the department, I sense trouble.]

On behalf of the Select Committee on Education, we support the budget. Let that budget ensure that sport is being elevated to a higher level.

Ge ke feleletša ke re: Go kga morogo ga se go tlatša boleke. Ke a leboga. [Legofsi.] [I would like to stop here. Thank you. [Applause.]]

Mof G PAMPIRI (North West): Ke a leboha Modulasetulo. Re le Profensi ya Leboya Bophirima re ema mona re rata ho tlatsetsa tekanyetsokabo le ho thoholetsa dikgato tsohle tse nkilweng hore ebe re na le tekanyetsokabo e leng teng. Leha ho le jwalo Modulasetulo, re rata ho hlahisa re le profensi ya Leboya Bophirima tseo e leng diphilello tsa rona lekaleng lena kapa Mafapheng ana a tsa Dipapadi le Boikgatholo, Bonono le Setso.

Ka June 16 re kgonne ho theha porojeke ya Gateway, eo e leng yona e jereng lefa la rona re le batho ba batsho, re le batho ba Afrika Borwa. Ke tseleng e yang Botswana moo re ileng ra kgona ho bona dintho di etsahala. Ho na le diemahale tseo re ka di supang tse emetseng setso sa rona re le Maafrika Borwa. Leha hoja re tla nne re be le ho fokolanyana ka mokotleng, feela re utlwisisisa hore re ke ke ra tlohella porojeke eo hobane ke porojeke ya bohlokwa haholo ho rona.

Re ile ra hlahella re le batho ba babe ha ho ne ho buua ka dipapadi tsa dikolo. Empa re rata ho bontsha kgato eo re e nkileng kamo rao hore re bone phoso eo. Re kopane le Setho sa Lekgotla la Ketsamelao ho tsa Thuto mane Leboya Bophirima, mme re ntse re lokisa leano la hore re fetole tseo tsohle hore re kgone ho lokisa se neng se senyehile. Re kopane hape le marena a rona ho leka hore re ntshetse pele leano leo le kwana mahaeng, le se ke la fella feela ditorotswaneng.

Re tswela pele Ntate, re na le modulasetulo, ho sebetsana le taba tsa ho fetolwa ha mabitso profensing mane. Mme re ikemiseditse hore re theolele mosebetsi oo moo setjhaba se leng teng. Ka Sekgowa re re re batla ho etsa ntho e bitswang “decentralisation”.

Kaofela re a tseba hore profensi ya Leboya Bophirima e bile e nngwe ya tse ileng tsa newa monyetla hore di tshware 2009 Confederations Cup, eo re kgonneng ho e tshwara hantle le hoja ho ne ho ena le diphephetso mona le mane. Re batla hore letona le nne le re shebe ha re hlaha pela lona ka tse ding tsa diphephetso tseo re di boneng moo.

Ntshetsopeleng ya talente e leng teng kahara profensi ya Leboya Bophirima lekaleng la tsa bonono le setso, re na le setheo se bitswang Mmabana, seo hawale re lemohileng hore ha se sebetse ka mokgwa oo se tshwanetseng ho sebetsa ka wona. Re dumela hore re tshwanetse ho tsoselletsa mosebetsi wa setheo sena, seo e leng sona se re ntsheditseng dibini tse kgolo tseo re nang le tsona ka hara naha.

Re tswela pele hore bana ba rona ba ithute, mme hore ba ithute ba tshwanetse ba be le moo ba fumanang dibuka tsa ho ikgopotsa dintho tse itseng tseo ebang ba ne ba le siyo ka nako eo di neng di etsahala, le ho bona menahano e fapaneng ya batho. Re tshepa hore ha re ka fihlellisa dilaeborari tsa rona mahaeng re tla be re sebeditse ho menahane. Mme karolo eo ke yona e etsang hore re ikutlwe hore re tshwanetse ho ema mona re re re na le sona seo re seng re se qadile. Mohlomong nengneng re tla kopa tlatsetso ho sona.

Ha ho fihlwa ho tsa Lefapha la tsa Dipapadi le Boikgathollo, ba na le mokotlanyana oo ba re fileng wona hore feela re kgone ho kenyetsa bana bao ba ntseng ba re batlela talente kwana mahaeng, mme bana bana ba shebane feela le tsa dipapadi. Re ne re re Letona la tsa Bonono le Setso ha le ne le ka shebisana le Letona la tsa Dipapadi le Boikgathollo hore ho ka etswa eng hore ba eketse mokotlanyana oo hore bana bana ba se ke ba shebana feela le talente ya tsa dipapadi empa ba shebe le ya tsa bonono le setso, mme ba e tlise ho rona ba e atametse hore re kgone ho ntshetsa mosebetsi pele.

Ka menahano e fokolang ena ka nako e kgutshwanyane re tshepa hore jwalo ka ha ntate ya buileng pele ho nna a se a buile, ho kga moroho ha se ho tlatsa boleke, mme le rona re a dumela hore ho be jwalo feela. (Translation of Sesotho speech follows.) [Ms G PAMPIRI (North West): Thank you, Chairperson. As the North West province we would like to support the Budget Vote and to applaud all the measures that have been taken to ensure that we have it. However, Chairperson, as the North West province, we would like to present our achievements in this Department of Sport and Recreation, Arts and Culture.

On 16 June we were able to establish the Gateway project, which is the archive of our heritage as the black people and citizens of South Africa. It was on the way to Botswana where we were able to see things happening. There are statues that we can point out which represent our culture as South Africans. Even though we still have a shortfall in our budget, we understand that we cannot abandon that project because it is very important to us.

We appeared as bad people when sport in schools was under discussion, but we would like to indicate the steps we have taken after realising that mistake. We met with a member of the Legislative Council of Education in North West, and we are in the process of preparing a policy to change the situation and correct what was wrong. We have also met with our chiefs in order to try to apply the policy further to the villages, so that it is not only applied in small towns.

We continue, sir, together with the chairperson, to deal with the issue of the changing of names in the province. And we intend decentralising the work in order to make it accessible to the people.

We all know that North West was one of the provinces that were given the privilege to host the 2009 Confederations Cup, which we successfully hosted even though there were challenges here and there. We want the Minister to help us when we approach her about the challenges that we have identified there.

In nurturing the talents in arts and culture in the North West province, we have the Mmabana institution, which, in our observation, is currently not functioning in the manner it is supposed to. We believe that we are obliged to revive the work of this institution that has discovered the great musicians that we have in our country.

We continue to say that our children must learn, but for this to happen there must be a resource centre where they can find books that will teach them certain things that probably happened before they were born, and also help them to see people’s different views. We believe that if we can make our libraries reach the villages, we shall have done a good job. This is the part that motivates us to stand here and claim that there is something that we have initiated. Maybe in the future we shall ask for additional funds.

Concerning the Department of Sport and Recreation, we have received some funds to give to the children who are scouting for talent in the villages on our behalf, and these children are focusing only on sports. We therefore suggest that both the Ministers of Sport and Recreation and Arts and Culture discuss ways of increasing those funds so that these children do not focus only on sports but also on arts and culture. The funds should be given to us so that we can continue with the work.

With these few ideas within a short period of time, we trust that, as the previous speaker has said, small contributions will result in bigger achievements. We therefore agree that it should be like that.]

Ms D Z RANTHO: Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members of this House, guests and special delegates, ladies and gentlemen, allow me to greet you this afternoon.

I am honoured to take part in this debate on the Budget Vote for Arts and Culture. A learner is developed at school holistically; that means mentally, emotionally and physically and also culturally. That is why arts and culture in South Africa is a nation-building tool. It has different types of programmes to develop learners socially and promotes all official languages.

The ANC-led government has opened our minds by encouraging everybody to love his or her own culture. It has taken us out of feeling ashamed of who we are. In the past we used to feel embarrassed or downcast for being black people. We even had the impression that God had made a mistake in creating us, because we thought that “they” were better off than us. “They” also said to us that, because our heads have short hair, our minds are also short.

The Department of Arts and Culture, led by the ANC government, promotes all languages, and it doesn’t just acknowledge the fact that we live in a diverse country, but enhances the diversity of the country. Because the ANC knows that we were marginalised by the previous government, it provides economic opportunities through arts and culture, globally and nationally.

It also seeks to promote our country’s heritage. Our own people, who can do artwork, can display their artwork in galleries and exhibitions and thus put food on the table for their families. The ANC leads! The ANC lives!

The Department of Arts and Culture has a clear policy and priorities for 2009-10, as the Minister has already told us. Some of our indigenous languages are starting to fade bit by bit. This department has a duty to ensure that this does not happen, and can do so by launching more of the African literature catalogue in all areas. As a country that has a Constitution which does not discriminate against any person — the Constitution has no colour or race; it accommodates everybody — the department must also take into cognisance the languages of the Khoisan.

The Freedom Charter has a clause that says, “The doors of learning shall be opened to all!”. This also stresses the fact that those who are disabled will be accommodated. This then suggests that this department, together with the Department of Education, must introduce arts and culture as a subject at all levels of schools, and accommodate the disabled at schools and universities. The Department of Education has now introduced inclusive education.

It has already been said that arts and culture will play a role in the present economic crisis. This department can open up centres even in small areas or rural areas where our people can make beaded goods and artwork to promote all types of culture. By doing this, they will be selling their work …

… ukuze bagxothe indlala emakhaya [… in order to eradicate poverty in their homes].

The department should also look at resourcing the libraries that are underresourced, because the libraries are sources of information for our young generations and for us all.

Upon looking at the budget allocation for this department, one gets the feeling that it is not enough. However, never mind, Minister, budgets are always not enough.

At the same time, to promote the culture of learning in our schools, we need to look at those schools that do not have enough books and art material. We also need to look at those schools that have bought those books but do not use them. Those books are just lying around in rooms that are closed and locked.

Our actors in the entertainment industry die bankrupt. Others are so bankrupt that sometimes their families do not even have money to bury them. These people are famous and well-known. Acting should not be regarded as a part-time job, because others make a full-time living out of it.

Does the arts festival in Grahamstown, which is an annual event, have an impact on the surrounding small towns like Addo, Kirkwood and others? Do the people of these areas gain something economically out of this festival?

Our national symbols are of vital importance, because they are our national identity. Each national symbol has a purpose. That is why each citizen of this country needs to know what it stands for. The national flag has colours, but learners in our schools do not know what each colour represents. It won’t surprise me if even our educators do not know anything about this.

I was once an educator in a very small rural town called Jamestown in the Eastern Cape. I was the only teacher who could analyse the symbols in our coat of arms. This may sound like a joke …

… ibe ngathi yinto engakhathalelekanga … [… like something that is not heeded …] … but it is very important, so that our youth can get to know why they must take pride in these symbols. They need to know what these symbols stand for, and what each colour symbolises.

Most of our people think that it is a waste of money to have all these symbols. This department has a duty to promote these symbols nationally, provincially and locally, as much as they can.

When we talk about the transformation of the South African heritage landscape through standardisation, the President in his state of the nation address said:

We will ensure a common national approach to the changing of geographic and place names. This must provide an opportunity to involve all South Africans in forging an inclusive national identity, to deepen our understanding of our history and heritage. This is long overdue as we are in the 15th year of democracy and there are still townships called Native Yard, NY1, in Gugulethu, here in Cape Town, and Osborne Road in Meadowlands, with all the English names from Kofifi.

In conclusion, we would want to see monitoring and enforcement mechanisms put in place in all provinces to ensure that all these objectives bring about a truly better life for our citizens. Working together, we can do more. Our select committee supports the Budget Vote unreservedly. I thank you. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Deputy Chairperson, it is indeed a very important day today. If we look at the coat of arms of our country, which is translated in our Constitution as enjoining all of us to be united in our diversity, “!ke e: /xarra //ke”, all the speakers have been in unison in agreeing about what should be done. We appreciate that very much. It’s a very good beginning.

What, of course, must follow is that when we go to implement it, we must all be united in action and then the hon Plaatjie will not just get a report. We will do better than that; we’ll introduce him to the reality of school mass participation.

I’m very pleased that the MEC of North West, hon Pampiri, is here. Although she is new to the post, she has already tasted the meaning of mass participation by schools. We were together in Klerksdorp and she has seen a little bit of that. It is there; it may not be in the papers of this House, but it is really there for those who want to go and have a look.

As the NCOP, we are slightly different from the NA in that we are expected to be coming directly from the provinces; we are more rooted than the NA. That was the spirit when we changed from the Senate to the NCOP. So, we really must go and have a look and also go and participate in these programmes, which all of us seem to agree on.

The second thing I want to raise is — the director-general is here, fortunately, and Mr Gunda might want to talk to him after this debate — the interaction that is taking place between our department and the chiefs of the Khoi and the San who are in Upington. The festival was in Upington, I think, during March at the beginning of this year.

Yes, we are in interaction but we did not see him there. That’s why he ran away, because he was not there. I agree with the hon member. We must not just engage in talking about these things, but we must do them. This does not just mean government, but all of us, because by working together we can do more.

I want to agree with those who enjoined the department to build more facilities in the rural areas, and I was pleased when the hon Rantho mentioned the small “dorpies” of the Sundays River Valley, eNqweba, because I spent four years of my life there. I know exactly what she’s talking about. It is precisely that reason that has compelled us to continue to seek the support of the hon members. The fiscus is not going to be adequate to do all these things, as the hon Rantho has just told us. I was hoping that the members would suggest that we increase the budget, because we agree that it is not adequate, but she comes and says that …

… masilale ngenxeba … [ … we must make peace with it …]

… it is never adequate. That is precisely the reason why we, in 1990 and 1991, were already anticipating this. The democratic movement said that South Africa must have a national lottery and the proceeds must augment the fiscus in providing for these developmental imperatives. We still haven’t got that in our hands yet, but we are working very hard with the new Minister of Trade and Industry and it seems we are getting somewhere.

We agree with Dinizulu’s grandchild that this thing did not happen by accident. This is the product of the sacrifices of many sons and daughters of our land. This was behind the mind of President Kwame Nkrumah in 1957 when he donated 400 guineas towards the establishment of CAF, and the President said, “Use it to unite Africa through sport”. That was behind the President and Chief Albert Luthuli’s initiatives in the development of nonracial soccer and nonracial tennis in the bundus of KwaZulu-Natal. But we must not wait until we have all these facilities.

You might have been told that I was working at Empangeni last weekend with a club called “Ziphozonke Nyombos”. That club has produced national players, and as a matter of fact they have two girls in the current under- 21 national team. In the senior national team they also have two girls. The president of Netball SA comes from that club, although she no longer lives there. A whole range of other communities around them are being boosted by participating in sport through this club. They don’t even have a netball field.

I’ve asked Simphiwe Mncube to go there next week to see what can be done precisely because we assist those who are beginning to do something so that they can do it better, given the facilities. I’m pleased that hon Gunda is back. I was talking about our efforts in Upington with the Khoisan council. [Interjections.] Yes, now that you are back, I want to say that the director-general is here; you might want to follow up on things, but we would really appreciate your presence in those activities.

We also agree on the need to highlight the participation of women in sport and indeed the participation of our communities in entrenching the integrity of our national symbols and protecting them and teaching our communities about all these things. We commit ourselves to do our bit and we want you, too, to commit yourselves to doing your bit.

Hon Mashamaite, there is no soccer team here in Parliament. I am looking forward to your own commitment to establishing a parliamentary football club that can go to the hinterlands of the Western Cape and when they go home, join other football veterans who are organising themselves for the purpose of coaching and training our children at their schools.

Let us do something about this. The President says, “Vorentoe!”. We must not mark time; otherwise nothing is going to happen. Thank you very much for the support from all the members — new and old. Working together, we can do more! [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Chairperson, I just want to inform the hon De Villiers who raised the issue of translation and editing that the department has a huge translation and editing section which translates all official documents of all government departments and organs; and we do all that free of charge.

We also have a book and publishing section which promotes writing of books in all our indigenous languages, so we would like to encourage our communities, young people, the elderly, men and women to come out and participate in this programme. We are also, through that section, promoting the culture of reading and writing, again including all our indigenous languages.

The hon Mncube’s comment on interpreting is very valid and we agree with her. However, I am proud to announce that our endeavours to build capacity include training. I have mentioned earlier some of the bursaries that we are giving out, particularly focusing on indigenous languages. That also includes interpreting skills. We are also focusing on the 2010 World Cup so that we can empower our young people for the visitors, fans and sports people who will be coming. That would be a legacy that would be left behind after the 2010 World Cup. Our young people will then be able to communicate in many languages worldwide.

We also have other areas of specialisation which include lexicography, language planning, development and translation, human language technologies and terminology. We would like to invite more of our young people and South Africans to come and participate in these programmes.

I also note the concerns about sign language. We are ensuring that in the next cycle we will introduce sign language and this will be another area of specialisation. We will come back and report to the House on progress in this regard.

Hon members Rantho and Gunda, if I am not mistaken, mentioned the Khoisan language. I think that is a very important language of our people and we, as the department, will do research in this regard involving the stakeholders and the communities. We will also look at other neighbouring countries that have done advanced work in the Khoisan languages, and we will come back and report in this regard. We believe it is an area that we should prioritise.

On national symbols, I agree with hon Rantho that this is about national identity and patriotism. The Deputy Minister and I have mentioned some of the programmes we have launched. We have started going out to the schools. We are working closely with the Department of Basic Education and the Department of Defence. We are also training our young people to sing the national anthem and know its significance. We are also putting our flags up in schools and teaching our young people about its significance, what the colours mean and the various national symbols that we have in the country.

I also want to thank the various members who have made meaningful inputs. We will include their inputs in our strategic plan.

We agree 100% with the hon member who was looking at the art centres, including women, particularly rural women. We have already started planning on how to rehabilitate our community art centres and use them to their full potential to benefit our communities and contribute towards skills training and skills transfer and also job creation for communities. So we will be embarking on this.

I also want to report that the National Arts Festival in Grahamstown was opened yesterday. I had the opportunity to be there. It is focusing on arts and crafts. It is taking these to the rural areas to train our communities and to ensure, hon Rantho, that those rural communities, especially rural women, are able to benefit from what we are doing in Grahamstown and other centres.

I also want to announce that this year, for our Heritage Month, we will be focusing once again on crafts and will ensure that we have our rural communities, including our women and young people, participating and benefiting through the craft centres. The national celebration for Heritage Day this month will be in Limpopo because we want to focus on our rural communities.

Also for the month we will be hosting the national arts councils of the world. We will have the conference hosted by the International Federation of Arts Councils and Culture and, again, here the focus will be on exposure and ensuring that our local artists, including our rural artists and cultural workers, get recognition and international contact and exposure. We hope that after this and also through capacity-building they will be able to play and participate at that level.

In conclusion, I want to thank, once again, the former Minister, Comrade Pallo Jordan, and Deputy Minister Ntombazana Botha for laying a firm foundation in this department which was originally established in 2004, when it was separated from Science and Technology. We will carry on and implement the important policies and programmes that they have introduced. I also want to thank Deputy Minister Paul Mashatile for his solid support.

Let me also thank the select committee, especially the chairperson, for the support they have given us in the short period that we have worked together, and also for the difficult questions they have asked us. They have helped to keep us on our toes and to continue to account to the nation.

Lastly, I want to thank my director-general, Mr Themba Wakashe and his team from the department for their day-to-day support and hard work in the department.

Debate concluded.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 22 - Safety and Security:

The MINISTER OF POLICE: Deputy Chairperson, Ministers, Deputy Ministers, MECs, hon members, last month our country celebrated Youth Month. We did this in part to preserve the memory of the June 16, 1976 events, and also as an act of reaffirmation of our commitment to the struggle for the eradication of the socioeconomic legacy of apartheid. The youth of our country is our present and our future. It has played a fundamental role in moulding the present South Africa.

Twenty years ago, some of the Rivonia trialists, amongst them Walter Sisulu, Wilton Mkwayi, Elias Motswaledi and Raymond Mhlaba, were released. Their major sin was to fight to realise a South Africa which belongs to all who live in it, black and white.

The ANC government remains unshakable in its commitment to working together with the people of our land to improve the quality of life of all South Africans, fully appreciative of the stubborn legacy of colonialism and apartheid. The struggle to realise the kind of society enshrined in our Constitution and the Freedom Charter continues.

The fight against crime is part of an integrated approach in the effort to accomplish the goal of a better life for all. An improved quality of life also means better and improved conditions of safety and security of the people in their homes, communities, workplaces and places of entertainment.

To facilitate the process of realising the objectives of the revamp of the criminal justice system, various interventions will be made. The SAPS personnel will increase from 183 180 to 204 860 over the next three years.

As the capacity of the SAPS continues to improve across the whole spectrum, more focus will be placed on increasing the numbers of the visible policing officers, detectives and crime intelligence.

This year alone, the number of detectives will increase by more than 19%. More than 12 928 persons are undergoing detective-related training this year, and this programme is already under way. The importance of scientific evidence has become essential in the investigation of cases. Accordingly, we shall increase the capacity of the Forensic Science Laboratories, with additional funding of R150 million for the 2008-09 period and a further R50 million per year for the 2011-12 financial year.

An implementation plan for the full utilisation of the DNA Automated Fingerprint Identification System, AFIS, facial and iris recognition will be developed by 31 October 2009. In policing, intelligence should act as a nerve centre. Intelligence has a crucial role to play in all aspects of policing.

The need to revitalise the intelligence component of the SAPS and the integration of intelligence into all aspects of policing is a priority. In order to improve our capacity to provide technical support for investigations and crime prevention operations, we are going to increase police intelligence personnel as well as the associated operational expenditures.

The scourge of serious and violent crime remains one of the major concerns of government and all the people of our land. The kind of violence that frequently accompanies business and house robberies, as well as car hijackings, can only be committed by people who have lost all sense of their humanity. We are not going to allow criminals to prevent us from fulfilling our historical goal of improving the equality of life of all citizens.

Part of the effort in launching the challenge in this regard is going to be about bringing stability to the Crime Intelligence Division, through appointing a permanent head for this division this month. There are over 1 000 vacant posts in this division. This situation cannot be allowed to continue. Therefore, we shall work to ensure that these posts are filled as a matter of urgency. We shall also prioritise training programmes.

Furthermore, we are going to deepen the partnership with communities. Currently, out of the 1 116 police stations, 95% of these have community policing forums. This kind of progress is commendable. We must express our gratitude to community patrollers and the youth who have committed themselves to the service of our country. This is one area where we expect the implementation of a national youth service as a living example that the youth of today are not only interested in crass materialism.

Furthermore, to strengthen the fight against serious and violent crimes, we are going to table some legislative interventions. In particular, we are proposing some amendments to section 49 of the Criminal Procedure Act. We must hasten to say that trigger-happy members must not think that this is a licence to kill. It is a measure aimed specifically at dealing with serious violent crime and dangerous criminals.

In engaging serious and violent crime, we are in discussions with other cluster Ministries such as Defence and Military Veterans, State Security and others. The continued incidents of cash-in-transit heists remain a matter of vital concern to the government.

While the financial losses may have declined, the threat posed to the public, where heavily-armed criminals conduct heists in public spaces, requires interventions. The Ministry is currently looking at a number of different approaches to address this problem.

The Cash Risk Management Forum has been set up under the chairpersonship of the Reserve Bank. This crime forum includes a number of key business role-players who are directly involved in cash management. The department will need to do more and be active to engage with the forum and the CIT industries.

Street robberies constitute between 70% to 80% of crime figures. Many of these incidents are not reported as they take place in poor and underdeveloped areas. A greater part of youth involvement will focus on this area.

The President has highlighted the need to upscale the effort to deal with crimes perpetrated against women and children. We are going to ensure that current measures are vigorously implemented. In addition, our view is that we will review the decision to close specialised units. The closure of these units has led to significant debate regarding the need for certain types of crimes to be addressed by people with specialised knowledge and experience.

Furthermore, we are going to table amendments to section 26 of the Criminal Procedure Act. The Ministry of Justice and ours are seized with this matter.

The SAPS has developed the Corruption and Fraud Prevention Plan. The plan aims at educating employees and the public about the nature and consequences of corrupt practices. Processes aimed at the full establishment of the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation are progressing as planned. The unit will be fully functional on the fixed date of the 6th, this month. The establishment of this unit will enhance our capacity to prevent, combat and investigate national priority crimes.

Members will remember that the head of the Directorate of Priority Crime Investigation, DPCI, Commissioner A Dramat, was appointed last month and 51 members of the former Directorate of Special Operations, otherwise known as the Scorpions, have already joined the new unit. A further 227 will join the unit on 6 July 2009. Altogether, 1 700 members have undergone security clearance processes and are ready to ensure that the unit hits the ground running. The unit will have a presence in all provinces.

We would like to express our sincere gratitude to those members of the DSO who have agreed to join the DPCI. We thank them for again deciding to join hands with government and the people of our country in the fight against crime. [Applause.] Their presence in the newly formed DPCI will ensure continuity. They indeed acted as true patriots. We have full confidence in Commissioner Dramat and are certain that he will be more than equal to the task at hand.

Failure to meet performance targets raises the question of the relationship between current performance management processes and set targets and priorities. It is important that there is greater accountability for failure to meet targets. If a police station is identified to be in a high crime incidence area and resources are allocated to that station, it should follow that subsequent failure ought to result in action being taken against its management.

We are seeking legal advice on the matter of willy-nilly concluding four to five-year contracts with commissioners without giving due regard to performance. What is clear is that to address these challenges it cannot be business as usual. As the President stated, we need to see real operational energy in police work. We will, within a month, have a permanent national commissioner. The national commissioner will certainly have his work cut out to ensure accountability, co-ordination and consistent and effective communication.

The issue of rural safety is going to receive dedicated attention. There’s a tendency for criminals to seek refuge in these areas when the situation gets too hot in urban areas and towns.

Bazosifica sikhona. [They’ll find us there.]

The first permanent intake of reservists in June-July 2009 will involve 1 100 reservists spread across all the nine provinces. These reservists will have to undergo proper training before they are deployed. The reservists will also be required to meet the standard selection criteria.

The war against crime must be taken to a new level. The time for indifference, inefficiencies and lethargy is over, and everything we do must and will be performance driven. The time for rewarding excellence is now.

May I take this opportunity again to applaud the work done by the Local Organising Committee, LOC, particularly the work done by the Department of Sport and Recreation, Mr Nyauza. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mong T M H MOFOKENG: Ke a leboha Motlatsa Modulasetulo, ho Letona la Sepolesa le Motlatsa Letona le maloko a hlomphehang a Lekgotla la Diprofensi. Qeto eo e ileng ya nkuwa ke baholo ba rona Kliptown ha ba ne ba amohela Freedom Charter e le tokomane ya tataiso ho ANC, ya hore hara tse ding tsa ditseko, ho tla ba le kgotso, polokeho le bophelo bo botle, e ntse e nepahetse le kajeno ha o sheba maemo ao ba bang ba baahi ka hara naha ba iphumanang e le mahlatsipa a diketsahalo tsa ditlolo tsa molao.

Diboka tse fetileng tsa botjhaba tsa ANC ho tloha Mafikeng, Stellenbosch le Polokwane, di hatelletse bohlokwa ba hore ho fetolwe tsamaiso ya sepolesa, ho lekolwe botjha tsamaiso ya toka le tlhabollo ya batshwaruwa ka maikemisetso a hore ho lwantshwe ka matla bosenyi le ditlolo tsa molao.

Ditekanyetso tsena tsa lefapha di etsahala nakong e kgutshwane re sa tswa dikgethong mme twantsho ya bosenyi ke e nngwe ya dintlha tse neng di le sehlohlolong matsholong a dikgetho. Morwalo wa ho lwantsha bosenyi, ke wona o entseng hore batho ba utlwisise hore polokeho le tshireletso ya bona di lokile tlasa puso ya ANC.

Ho na le boikarabelo ba ho fana ka tshireletso ho baahi bohle ntle le kgethollo le ho sireletsa thepa ya naha ena; ho sireletsa ditokelo tsa botho ho ya kamoo Molaotheo o hlalosang ka teng karolong ya bobedi; ho netefatsa tshebedisanommoho pakeng tsa sepolesa le baahi bao se tlamehileng ho ba sireletsa; ho hlompha maikutlo a mahlatsipa a ditlolo tsa molao; ho utlwisisa ditlhoko tsa bona le hore ho be le mokgwa oo ho lekolwang tsamaiso ya sepolesa ka teng.

Dilemong tse hlano tse tlang, ho ya ka manifesto wa ANC, baahi ba tlameha ho nka karolo twantshong ya bosenyi le ho thea dikomiti tsa tshireletso moo ba dulang teng. Ho thaothwe le ho eketsa palo ya sepolesa, ho matlafatswe kwetliso ya sepolesa, ho matlafatswe lekala la diphuputso le bokgoni ba tshebetso ba lekala la mautlwela.

Ditekanyetso tsena di tlamehile ho dumellana le diqeto tsa seboka sa 52 sa ANC sa hore ho nyahlatswe mokgwa wa kgale wa molao le ditaelo sepoleseng ho ya mokgweng wa ho fa baahi karolo tshireletsong ya bona.

Leha ho ena le kgolo le phetoho ho matlafatseng ntwa kgahlanong le bosenyi, ho na le phetoho eo re ipiletsang ho lefapha ka yona hore le ke le lekole ditekanyetso tsa makala a lona, Bongodi le Lekala le Ikemetseng la Ditletlebo, ho ya ka mesebetsi ya ona e fapaneng. Hona ho kenyelletsa le tsela eo ditjhelete di ajwang ka teng diteisheneng tsa sepolesa, dikoloi kamoo di arolwang ka teng le batho ho ya ka bokgoni ba bona ba mosebetsi. Tjhelete e ngata, dikoloi tse ngata le batho ba nang le bokgoni ba bewa sebakeng se le seng, mme mona ekare diteishene tse ding ha di na bokgoni ba ho etsa mosebetsi.

Ho hlokahala ha makoloi nakong eo ho tlalehwang ditlolo tsa molao, e le hobane mapolesa a tjhaile ka dikoloi, di malapeng a bona, ho baka hore ho hlokahale dikoloi tse arabelang tlolong tsa molao. Boholo ba tjhelete ena bo tlamehile ho sebediswa ho hira mapolesa a mangata le hore a lefshwe meputso e metle, haholoholo hobane re ya re tobane le ho tshwara dipapadi tsa mohope wa lefatshe tsa 2010.

Ho a hlokeha hore maemong ana re thoholetse sepolesa sa rona ka mosebetsi o motle oo se o entseng dipapading tsa Confederations mme e se eka ba ka etsa ka matla hobane ka 2010 ho tla batho ba bangata le ho feta. Tshireletso e matla e tlilo hlokeha haholoholo madibohong a rona le boemafofaneng, haholoholo ba O R Tambo.

Ho tshwarwa ha basebeletsi ba South African Airways ka dithethefatsi mose ho pepesitse bohlaswa ba sepolesa sa rona ka hore batho ba tswe ka hare ho naha ba yo tshwarwa hole kwana. Hobaneng ba sa hlokomela hore sefofane seo se setjhwe hantle? Ha o bapisa tshireletso O.R. Tambo International le boemafofane ba dinaha tse ding ka ntle, mapolesa a rona a lokela ho phahamisa mokgwa wa ona wa ho setjha batho ba kenang ka hara naha hore ba se kene le dintho tse sa dumellehang, haholoholo dithethefatsi. Hona ho kenyelletsa le ho lekola boemafofane ka hara naha ho taolong ya bomasepala. Ho a hlokahala hore sepolesa se behe dibaka tseo leihlo.

Moralo wa lefapha o tlamehile hore o hlake hore baithaopi ba thusang sepolesa twantshong ya ditlolo tsa molao ba fuwa morokotso ha ho etsahetse jwang, mme ha ba lefshwe ha ho etsahala eng. Ha se dibakeng kaofela moo baahi ba fumantshwang tshehetso ke borakgwebo kgahlanong le tlolo tsa molao, moo ho bonahalang hore tshehetso e jwalo e teng, batho ba kgothalla ho nka karolo.

Kwetliso ya mapolesa ka tsela e nepahetseng e bohlokwa, haholo ha ba nka ditatamente hore ba se ke ba hlolwa ke dinyewe ha di fihla makgotleng a dinyewe. Kwetliso eo e tlamehile hore e kenyelletse boiphihlelo bo phethahetseng ba ho kganna. Dikoloi di dutse feela diteisheneng tsa sepolesa ka baka la ho kena dikotsing, mme hona ho etsa hore lefapha le lahlehelwe ke ditjhelete ka ho qoswa ke batho bao thepa ya bona e sentsweng ke mapolesa.

Ka baka la ho hloka thepa e tshwanetseng ya ho lwantsha boshodu, maphelo a mapolesa a kenngwa tsietsing, haholoholo hobane ho bakwa ke manyofonyofo a ditjhelete. O fumane bakgothotsi ba hlometse ho feta mapolesa. Re tshehetsa ka hohlehohle ho thehwa le ho kenyelletswa ha lekala la Diphuputso tsa Botlokotsebe bo Sehlohlolong taolong ya sepolesa, mme re se re ntse re ipiletsa hore le se ke la sebediswa hampe ho phethahatsa merero ya boradipolotiki. Ho seng jwalo le lona le tla qhalwa.

Re tshehetsa le mapolesa letsholong la bona la ho lwantsha tlolo tsa molao, le hore ha ho na phoso ka lepetjo la bona la “wa nya tsotsi”. Kutlwisiso ya rona ke hore ha batho ba bolaya, ba beta bana, maqheku, bomme ba rona le dikgaitsedi tsa rona, ba re hlokisa kgotso le botsitso. Ha ho na phoso hore ba tsebe hore ba tla nyela. Re a di tshehetsa ditekanyetso tsena tsa lefapha. Ke a leboha. (Translation of Sesotho speech follows.)

[Mr T M H MOFOKENG: Thank you, Chairperson, Minister of Police and Deputy Minister, and hon members of the National Council of Provinces. The decision taken by our elders in Kliptown when they adopted the Freedom Charter as a guiding document of the ANC, mentioning, amongst other demands, that there will be peace, security and prosperity, is still relevant even today when you look at some of the citizens of our country who still find themselves becoming victims of crime.

Previous national conferences of the ANC, from Mafikeng, Stellenbosch and Polokwane, emphasised the importance of the transformation of the police administration, the review of the justice system and the rehabilitation of prisoners with the purpose of seriously fighting crime.

This Budget Vote happens shortly after we have come back from the elections. The fight against crime was one of the issues which were high on the election campaign, and the capacity by government to tackle crime was one of the reasons that people understood that their safety and security is guaranteed under the ANC government.

According to section 2 of the Constitution, the government has the responsibility to provide security to all its citizens without discrimination; to ensure the protection of state property; to protect human rights; to ensure co-operation between the police and the citizens which it is supposed to protect; and to respect the feelings of victims of crime and understand their needs. There should also be mechanisms through which the police can be monitored.

In the next five years, according to the ANC’s manifesto, citizens are going to be required to take part in the fight against crime by forming neighbourhood watches in the areas where they live. There should be more recruitment in order to increase the number of police, intensification of police training, improvement of the Department of Criminal Investigations and the efficiency of the Department of Intelligence.

These Budget Votes must concur with the decisions of the 52nd conference of the ANC which took the decision that the old system of management and administration of the Police Service should be discarded in favour of allowing communities to participate in efforts aimed at their own safety.

Even though there is an increase and there seems to be some changes in the commitment to fight crime, there is one matter on which we would like to appeal to the department: it should review its budget for the departments of the Secretariat and of the Independent Complaints Directorate according to the different functions they perform. This includes the manner in which funds are allocated to different police stations; the manner in which the police vehicles are distributed, and certain individuals being appointed according to their abilities. Too much money and many vehicles have been concentrated in one area, and this situation creates the impression that other police stations are incapable of doing their job.

When crimes are reported, the shortage of vehicles because some members of the police go home in these cars, makes it difficult to respond to crime. A large portion of this budget must be used to hire more police and they should be paid well, particularly as we will be hosting the 2010 Soccer World Cup.

It is necessary at this point to commend our police for the sterling job they did during the Confederations Cup and we hope that they will do even better in 2010 because there will be more people coming to our country. Strong security will also be required along our borders as well as our airports, especially at O R Tambo International.

The arrest of employees of SA Airways in possession of drugs has displayed the carelessness of our police as those people were able to leave the country only to be arrested so far away. Why didn’t the officials make sure that the aeroplane was searched thoroughly? When one compares security at O R Tambo International with that of other countries’ airports, one finds that our police need to improve their method of searching people who come into the country so that they do not enter with illegal goods, especially drugs. This entails the monitoring of the airports in the country as well as airstrips by local municipalities. It is necessary for the police to monitor these areas.

The department’s plan must be clear on the circumstances under which volunteers in the fight against crime are compensated or not compensated. It is not in all the areas where the communities are given financial assistance by business sectors in order to fight crime, and it is evident that where such support is available, people are encouraged to participate.

Proper training of police is essential, especially when it comes to taking down statements, so that they do not lose cases in the courts of law. The training should also involve excellent driving skills. There are many vehicles sitting idle at police stations as a result of being involved in accidents. This causes the department to lose a lot of money through being sued by individuals whose property was damaged by the police.

As a consequence of corruption, there is a lack of proper equipment to fight crime, therefore putting the lives of police officers in danger. You find that criminals are more armed than the police. We totally support the establishment and the incorporation of the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation under the control of the SA Police Service. We make an appeal that it should not be used to further the aims of politicians, otherwise it will also be dissolved.

We support the police in their crime-fighting campaign and see no problem with their slogan of “Wa nya tsotsi” [Shoot to kill]. Our understanding is that if people kill and rape children and the elderly, our mothers and sisters, then there is no problem for them to know that they will also be killed. We support these budget allocations of the department. Thank you.]

Mr W F FABER: Chair, crime can be prevented before it occurs. The more trained police officers we have on the streets, the better we will be able to prevent crime and bring criminals to justice. This must go hand in hand with steps to improve these officers’ performance. Police officers should be employed on the basis of merit and not on the basis of quotas or political alignment.

The taxpayer also often carries the burden of the failure of the Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD. There were over 6 000 complaints against members of the SA Police Service, SAPS, this past year. About 2 772 of these complaints were about criminal activities. This equals eight police members doing crime every day of the year.

For the past three years to date, R90 million has been spent on suspended SAPS members on full pay, covering 12 723 working days in total. It would be worth nothing if SAPS members would only be dismissed when they are given a prison sentence without the option of a fine.

The DA also said that the firearm legislation would be an extremely expensive failure — and I’m afraid this is what it has become. Legal gun owners fumed at the hoops they had to jump through to get a new, improved and expensive gun licence when they already owned one.

At the same time, one clue to how our criminals have become so heavily armed comes from the information that the police somehow lost 2 507 weapons last year. Added to municipal losses, this means that 3 767 weapons are now in the hands of criminals. In fact, over 14 000 weapons have been lost or stolen from police stations since 2001. So it makes no sense that the department would choose to turn and focus on legal gun owners.

It is disappointing that President Zuma failed to announce the reconstitution of the Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences units in the state of the nation address. It was the previous police commissioner, Jackie Selebi, who decided to close down all specialised units such as the Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences units and all the other units which had been crafted into lean, delivering units equal to the best in this world.

Regrettably, the government appears intent on centralising all facets of government, including the police. This means that the need for specialised crime fighting units, which are so urgently required to deal with many of the most serious types of crimes, continues to be ignored. We, as the DA, welcome the Minister’s consideration to reopen these specialised units. Minister, we will be monitoring this.

Today, another 52 people will be murdered in this beautiful country of ours. Fifty-two murders per day! This could happen to anyone of your friends, families or even us. Government has a target on reducing serious and violent crimes like rape by 7% to 10% every year, but only 50% of reported rapes lead to arrests, while only 17% of matters ever go to trial in Gauteng — the one province which we have data for. The conviction rate for rape hovers at 7%, dropping to as low as 4% in Gauteng. It is then not surprising that the police do not possess any real ability to prevent rape.

Evidence is emerging that some police stations may be manipulating their statistics to meet targets. In 2007, at least 50 rapes reported in the Paarl area were allegedly recorded as general inquiries and were left uninvestigated. Organisations serving rape complainants have corroborated this, saying that they too have been approached by complainants alleging that police officers have refused to accept their complaints.

The frightening part is that only one in nine women raped reports their attack to these police. It is clear that despite this impossible 7% target, there has not been a real reduction in rape. Instead, this target has unintentionally created perverse incentives which may render the trauma and suffering of rape complaints irrelevant in the face of performance targets, and could make those responsible for enforcing the rule of law complicit in the law’s corruption. In the process, underreporting is further increased. The quality of engagement of police officers and prosecutors with complainants ought to be assessed.

President Zuma admitted failure by saying that the ANC now needs to establish an integrated, modernised, properly-resourced and well-managed criminal justice system. The Global Peace Index survey places South Africa at 123 out of 144 countries. Seven places down from our position last year. Clearly, the ongoing deterioration of the crime problem in South Africa warrants a decisive new approach.

As I conclude, every expert in the country will tell you that updated and accurate information on crime is an essential tool in fighting crime and creating real and localised responses. Covering up crime won’t make crime go away, Mr Minister. The question is: Are we going to allow this to go on or are we prepared to take responsibility and take corrective measures to really serve the people of South Africa and give them what they deserve – freedom, with safety and security? I thank you, Chair. [Applause.]

Ms D MAGADZI (Limpopo): Madam Chairperson, Minister, Deputy Minister of Police, fellow members of the executive councils, chairperson of the Select Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, delegates of the NCOP, it is my honour and privilege to participate in the first policy debate for the Police following the fourth democratic elections of our country.

Two weeks ago, in the Limpopo legislature, we presented an outline of our plans for the 2009-10 financial year, as well as the broad programmes that we would be pursuing during this term of office. Our participation in this debate therefore would seek to highlight issues that we consider fundamental to the realisation of the programme.

It must be stated that the SAPS in Limpopo has recorded a major achievement in reducing crime, even though our police-population ratio is the highest in the country where one police officer serves 526 citizens.

We remain optimistic, Mr Minister, that as you will be recruiting police officials, you will be able to consider this plight that we are putting forward in this august House. We also believe that mobilising young people as volunteers in partnership with the police to fight crime will go a long way in addressing the human resource capacity that we are faced with in the Limpopo province.

We believe that, working in a rural province like ours, the challenges are insurmountable. The farming community needs visible policing. Our rural communities also see visible policing as one of the areas that can ward off crime and criminals. We also believe that if sector policing could be strengthened, it could be one of those policies that can advocate the impact of crime prevention in the rural areas.

Our integrated approach with the Department of Education, the Department of Sport and Recreation and the Department of Arts and Culture is starting to work as we deal with the challenges we are faced with in our schools. Our crime prevention strategy in our Safe Schools programme is starting to take shape.

The SAPS has indeed undergone a serious metamorphosis in the past 15 years in providing services to our communities. The observation that we have made as a province is that most specialised areas are still the preserve of a few. We urge the human resources unit in the Police Service to take this as a challenge. As they shall be dealing with issues of transformation, they should consider that as a province we believe that the specialised unit should be able to project that 97% of Africans work in the Police Service.

One of the areas that need intervention is that transformation in terms of deployment of Africans should be seen as a serious agenda to follow. Given the fact that the Public Service demands that there be gender parity in everything that we are doing, we should be able to see a lot of women police in management areas.

In the course of executing their everyday responsibilities, members of the SAPS are exposed to situations that create trauma and psychological pressure. Through our monitoring and evaluation we should be able to evaluate the impact and the extent to which the Police Service is providing counselling and spiritual services to the members who have been exposed to these challenges. At the same time, we are calling on our people also to provide moral and spiritual support to the members of the Police Service. We may have to criticise the police if we are not happy with the service they are providing, but equally as members of the communities we should compliment them where they have excelled in executing their tasks. As dictated by our manifesto, participation of communities will be key in what we shall be doing in this term of office. Our community policing forums will be strengthened; communities’ safety forums, street committees and village committees will be formed. We believe that crime prevention is not only a police responsibility, but our responsibility too.

We owe it to the people of the Republic who have yearned for a safe and secure country. We believe that the ideal of the Freedom Charter will not be a pipe dream.

Over the past 15 years we have been working towards building South Africa into a land of peace and harmony, a land that is full of opportunities. We have built a stable and growing economy. We have created the possibility of releasing more and more resources for social and economic services, while building a modern and competitive economy. We are ready as a province to mobilise our people to participate fully in the legislative processes. This, we believe, is capacity-building in the making and skills development in action.

Working together with this House we believe that we will continue to reflect the challenges that our communities are facing. Working together with this House we believe that as legislation will be developed, we will be taking them to our communities.

We wish to congratulate the police for their sterling work during the Confederations Cup. We believe that in 2010 the police shall have grown from strength to strength and would be able to do their work better as they will be facing the 2010 World Cup.

As Limpopo province, we shall be hosting the Vodacom Challenge in July and we believe that this will be one of those cups that will be able to show that, yes, indeed, the men and women in blue are able to do what they can do best.

Indeed, we must be made wiser by the recollection of our past, but our responsibilities towards the future are the things that we must always dwell on through and through. Working together we shall be able to prevent crime. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr B NESI: Chairperson, Minister and Deputy Minister, hon Chief Whip and members of the NCOP, I’m honoured to be taking part in this debate. I’ve been instructed by the people’s movement to once again air its views and ideas about the safety, security and peaceful living conditions that our forefathers envisaged when they drafted the Freedom Charter in 1955, in Kliptown, which the late President of the ANC, Oliver Tambo, referred to as the “people’s document”.

Indeed, this document has proved over decades, from generation to generation, that it is embracing the interests of South Africans across colour lines, hence South Africa belongs to all who live in it. [Applause.]

The budgeting that has been reflected by the department should be seen as a political and financial instrument that the ANC government uses. This is to ensure that its policy programmes are operationalised through the allocation of financial resources.

Accelerating transformation in the SAPS is the policy decision as expressed by the resolution of the ANC at the Stellenbosch National Conference. This budget must relate to the objectives of the policy decision because they seek to accelerate democratic and accountable police services to our people.

In line with the 2009 ANC manifesto, President Jacob Zuma’s state of the nation address reiterated that government will establish a modernised, efficient and transformed criminal justice system to develop capacity for fighting and reducing crime. The President gives priority to the need to revamp the criminal justice system in its totality in order to combat crime and corruption in the next five years. Corruption has become one of the priority areas which needs to be exposed and rooted out.

The 2009 ANC manifesto seeks to eradicate practices that can lead to corruption by way of proposing regulatory measures and limitations of the involvement of politicians in tendering processes. The manifesto is in line with the moratorium on privatisation, outsourcing, and tendering, which was adopted in the Alliance Summit in 2007.

The context of the Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD, needs to be strengthened to ensure the efficiency of its oversight role over the SAPS, but this role should not be seen in a separatist competing manner. The SAPS and ICD must be seen as complementary entities in the fight against crime. This brings me to the advances made in transforming the Police Service over the last 15 years.

There are noticeable strides in ensuring the legitimacy of the police among our communities. The Ready to Govern and the RDP policy documents mapped out the future policing practices in South Africa and their perspectives, taking into account the specific history of the South African police. Above all, their premise is that crime prevention cannot be the task of the police alone. Part of the transformation agenda within the SAPS has to speak to representation involving categories such as gender, race, and disability.

The strategic objective of the ANC is to build a democratic nonracial, nonsexist and prosperous South Africa, free from all forms of discrimination and ensure that we have a caring society guided by the principles of ubuntu. The SAPS budget must ensure that women police swell the managerial positions within the organisations. Such women should ensure that they consciously sensitise their male counterparts. Judging by the SAPS reports, women in key positions are still fewer compared to their male counterparts. We managed to deracialise the police.

Our police are representative of the rainbow nation in line with nation- building. We just need to sustain this achievement to ensure that the principles of nonracialism are upheld through this budget.

It appears that the SAPS has made little progress to attract and retain police with disabilities. Probably we still have militaristic conceptions of the SAPS’s roles. This budget needs to provide a broader understanding of the functions of the SAPS which have physical, intellectual and emotional levels.

Certain crimes against certain groups of people in society such as women and people with disabilities can be better addressed by the balanced law- enforcement agency. The ANC regards crimes against women and children as priority crimes. One of the key functions of the ICD is to ensure the implementation of the Domestic Violence Act of 1998. It is important to note that there are unresolved weaknesses in the implementation of the domestic violence and crimes against women and children legislation.

Some male members of the SAPS see crimes against women within their family settings as a domestic matter which does not warrant arrest. Hence, the ANC feels that it is very important to ensure that the participation of women is to sensitise and assist their male counterparts in the SAPS. This mind- set can probably be changed by the ongoing training on gender equality and deployment of female police in key areas and detective work.

This budget must ensure that new police stations are friendly to people with disabilities to enable them to report crimes at charge offices. Furthermore, people living with disabilities must be catered for in this budget. This is to ensure the building of appropriate infrastructure, support systems and other resources.

In conclusion, there’s been a lot of progress and good things were mounted by our SAPS members in relation to the transformation agenda. Together we can do more to accelerate transformation in the SAPS through this budget. The ANC supports the Budget Vote. Thank you.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF POLICE: Hon Chairperson, Minister of Police, Comrade Nathi Mthethwa, the leadership of the police, commissioners present here, distinguished guests, hon Members of Parliament, our commitment to the realisation of the ideals of peace, security and comfort embodied in the Freedom Charter enjoins us to become champions in the fight against crime in all its manifestations.

The Constitution demands of us to create a nation state free from crime, with citizens living in harmony. We dare not fail in our duty to advance towards such a reality, and will dedicate every resource at our disposal to the war against crime. This is not only the responsibility of government, but a shared obligation which demands of every citizen to join in this collective effort to cleanse our communities of the cancer of crime. We invite every patriotic South African to join us in the new deal to uproot crime and reclaim our streets from criminals.

The prayer that says, “Our Father, who art in heaven … give us our daily bread”, addressed to President Zuma in Pretoria, must change and mean “participation of the people in the fight against crime”.

In the coming months we will launch “Operation Washa Tsotsi” as a popular mobilisation programme, mobilising communities against crime in all its manifestations. “Washa Tsotsi” is a radical African expression and display of strength and zealousness against one’s enemy. It is a weapon to instil fear and respect in one’s strategic opponent. It is an expression of readiness of one’s forces of war. It is an exhibition of strength. It is a war cry!

This operation will be community-led, based on the strategic isolation of criminals and those who harbour them. It is based on the popular participation of the police and the community at large in the fight against crime and criminality. This will make entertainment centres unbearable for criminals.

Details of this operation will be disseminated to provinces and we would like all provinces to implement this.

Comrade Oliver Tambo, a giant of our revolution, once said that in the life of a nation, there comes a time when a nation is faced with a difficult choice of whether to submit or fight.

We refuse to submit to criminals who continue to instil fear in the peace- loving citizens of South Africa, and we shall fight them in every corner, every street and every community where they hide. We are confident that we shall win this war. Amasi abekw’elangeni! [The jig is up!] In fact, attention should also be paid to any remaining apartheid network of dirty war and spies, some of which are an integral part of the criminal networks.

We pledge to our people that we will fight crime in all its facets and manifestations. The commitment made by the former Minister of Safety and Security, the hon Steve Tshwete, when he said - We will deal with criminals with the ferocity of a cornered bull and with the agility of a cat; we will deal with them the way a bulldog deals with a bone.

… continues to reverberate to this day. We recommit ourselves to that commitment, and we will show no mercy in throwing the book at criminals and those who harbour them. To this effect, the youth will be mobilised and organised into a mass-based community programme to assist in visible policing and safety and security that will include, but not be limited to, streets, taxi ranks, bus terminals and shopping centre patrols, including rail safety and mending, and be rewarded by stipends paid by government and exit opportunities at the end of service as part of the National Youth Service Programme.

We are aware that some of us here and elsewhere will not hesitate to vulgarise this revolutionary agenda. Vulgarising youth activism in the struggle against crime is mischievous and a counterrevolutionary gesture.

In essence, this posture is not in the interests of nation-building, but suffers from political and ideological malnutrition.

The programme of a youth reservist service is aimed at building among our youth a revolutionary social consciousness and leading them to be active participants in the struggle for full social cohesion and nation-building.

Gone are the days when young people were treated as a liability to society. The ANC democratic state will treat the youth as a dynamic asset of society and communities. We shall treat them as crystal catalysts for development and change – the bedrock of the nation!

The National Youth Service Programme is aimed at instilling the value of service and protection of the community and public property amongst our youth. We encourage provinces and station commanders to provide space and resources for youth development at the various police stations and metro and municipal venues. We shall also, together with Public Works and the National Youth Development Agency, design a programme for skills development.

Although there is some progress in the transformation of the SAPS, to make it more responsive to the constitutional imperatives, a lot still needs to be done. There is a dire need for an overhaul of the entire system if we want to see radical transformation in the Police Service. As Mao Tse-Tung once said:

We should check our complacency and constantly criticise our shortcomings, just as we should wash our faces or sweep the floor every day to remove the dirt and keep them clean.

A lot of sweeping of dirt will need to be done in the SAPS, especially at the management and administration levels.

We are similarly poised to deal with the deployment to and functionality of police stations. The way police members implement and observe Batho Pele principles at the police station level leaves a lot to be desired.

Despite these challenges, we have an obligation to improve the conditions of service for our men and women in blue and ensure that we remunerate them in a manner which boosts their morale and instils a sense of dignity. We have made this commitment in the past, and we reiterate that commitment. This should apply to strategic management, expansion of human resource capacity, research and development strategy. The era of renewal should be characterised by efficient, effective commitment to one’s work and an ethical and professional manner of doing things, including the spending of public funds.

Our police officers place their lives in harm’s way as they undertake their duty of confronting the scourge of crime. I honour these gallant fighters of our nation who have chosen a career to fight crime and strengthen the operational effectiveness and efficiency of the SAPS. In their line of duty, they face numerous challenges, serious injuries, even death.

Each death of a police officer is one death too many, and we say, enough is enough. The ferocity with which we will deal with the killing of police officers is the first step in many that seek to underpin the value we place on our officers as the protectors of our people and the foot soldiers in our war against crime and corruption.

We must take this opportunity to join the Minister to salute and thank all those men and women in blue who continue to make us proud by executing their duties with diligence, commitment and dedication, also during the successful Fifa Confederations Cup.

We refuse to submit to the unpatriotic media that continues to put our country in a bad light by publishing sensational stories about South Africa. One of these stories involved players of one of the teams that were competing in the Confederations Cup and an alleged incident of theft from their hotel rooms.

In conclusion, policing is a journey - an inner one and an outer one. There is no final destination, but rather twists and turns in a journey towards creating a safe and secure environment for all the people of South Africa.

The trust of our people lies literally in our hands. We will not betray this trust. We will not tolerate or hesitate to act against any corrupt police officer, and neither will we tolerate serving members who dishonour their uniform and the service through criminal activities perpetrated by those entrusted to fight crime.

My sincere appreciation and thanks to all the family members and relatives of police officers for allowing your loved ones and children to choose policing as their career, and for the support you have given them throughout their policing duties. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mr M G E WILEY (Western Cape): Madam Deputy Chair, first of all I would like to thank you for this opportunity to speak. I have spoken here many times before, between 1994 and 1997, in the old Senate. It is good to be back, although in a slightly different format.

First of all, to the Minister, we haven’t had the privilege and the opportunity to meet. I hope to meet with you and your Deputy Minister in the near future. I would like to address some of the remarks he has just made. But before I do so, I would just like to thank the Acting National Police Commissioner, Tim Williams, who stood in at a very difficult time in the SAPS’s history. I think he has done an incredible job under the circumstances. Thank you very much, Commissioner.

I would also like to assure Commissioner Dramat, in his newly appointed position, that we are looking forward to working with him and all in the top structure of commissioners. Thank you very much for all the hard work you are doing for the Western Cape.

I listened to some of the remarks made by the Deputy Minister. I must admit that I was a little bit taken aback. A number of speakers spoke about the ANC manifesto and the Freedom Charter and things of that nature. Well, the DA also has a manifesto. [Laughter.] But the fact of the matter is that all of us in this House and in the other House, and every citizen in this country, are subservient to only one document, and that is the national Constitution of South Africa and its subservient laws. We will honour this document only, and we will honour and respect the rule of law.

I can assure you, Minister and your commissioners, that from the Western Cape, you have our fullest support in what you have stated. I’ve really enjoyed some of the things you’ve said with regard to the youth and crime intelligence. Here in the Western Cape, we are particularly concerned that the state of crime intelligence in the province is not up to standard.

I have an article here with regard to 1 000 people who mobilised against Somali shopkeepers just the other day. Our information was that the xenophobia situation was about to break out again here in the Western Cape, but according to the police’s national crime intelligence, there was no threat whatsoever.

For us to be able to fulfil our role as government in the Western Cape, we have to be able to defend ourselves against any potential threat. I would ask that you please speak to whoever your head of police intelligence is in the country to speak to their counterpart in the Western Cape to ensure that the standard of crime intelligence in the province is up to standard and that the Premier, the Cabinet and the department responsible for community safety are fully briefed.

The Deputy Minister talked about mobilising the youth. I would like to tell the Deputy Minister that the only action that the ANC has taken in the last week was to revolutionise the people in Masiphumelele and in other places in the Western Cape. Owing to this, the police were called out to come and shoot them with stopper bullets because they tried to burn places down. So, with all due respect, mobilising people is one thing, but to do it within the rule of law is another thing altogether.

Over the past few years, we have seen a steady growth in the budget allocated to the SAPS, and we are grateful. I heard what the hon Minister had to say, but I cannot help thinking of all the people in the Western Cape whose lives have been changed forever by crime. It may seem like crime is an inescapable reality today — even more so in the Western Cape — but truthfully it is not. The DA and the Western Cape government, in particular, firmly believe that quite the opposite is true. An abnormally high crime rate should not be regarded as normal or inescapable. It is a reality, but not inescapable.

The Western Cape has some of the worst crime statistics in South Africa and, indeed, in the world. An international study named Cape Town second in line as the murder capital of the world for 2008, and, indeed, the police precincts recorded the highest number of murder incidents in Nyanga in 2007- 08.

Added to this, we have the highest rate of child murders, child rape and child abductions in the country — close to half the national figure. The latest figure shows that from April 2007 to March this year, 128 children and teenagers were murdered in the Western Cape. This is neither normal nor inescapable. It only requires political will, coupled with dedicated police and a criminal justice system, to turn this tide around.

In the past three months alone, I had the personal experience of people who were living in close proximity to me being murdered. These were not people under the influence of drugs or any other substance. They were people going about their normal daily activities — work. One was dropping off a person at work and the other two were murdered in their own workplaces.

As stated, crime and criminality is rife in the Western Cape and needs to be addressed as a matter of urgency. We have reached a critical crossroads in our country and, indeed, in our province. We must decide whether we will accept a country where a child is raped every three minutes and where one out of four men admits to having indulged in rape themselves.

Drugs and gangsterism in the Western Cape are having a devastating effect on communities in this province. It can be argued that it underpins a wide range of other criminal activities as a result. Drug-related crimes show a dramatic increase of 242% over the last eight-year period, but the continued availability of drugs in our communities is eroding the very core of our province.

Substance abuse, murder and crime in general are serious disincentives to capital and skills and they directly ruin the lives of a growing number of our citizens. We must work effectively within the law against criminals who are adept at covering their tracks by bribing the police and pretending to assist communities.

I believe that there must be a dramatic improvement in our relationship with the Department of Justice. In this regard, I would ask that we work a lot closer with Justice. For instance, in every police station I go to, I find police officers stamping oaths and doing affidavits and things of that nature — taking up their valuable time and keeping the uniform presence off the streets and in the charge office rather. I would suggest that we make use of justices of the peace to do that sort of work and liaise with the Department of Justice to ensure that justices of the peace are put to gainful employment in police stations so that police officers can go back to the streets where they need to be.

Similarly, we need to know that the police’s crime intelligence which I have alluded to is on top of its game. It gives the provincial government the opportunity to govern effectively by having intelligence timeously. It will be unfair to place all responsibility for safety and crime prevention on the police. The truth is that the department of community safety in the Western Cape plays an enormous role in safeguarding our communities.

Our mandate is not to fight crime, but to oversee the activities of the police as described in section 206 of the Constitution. The performance monitoring of the SAPS will be formalised by the institutionalisation of regular meetings with the SAPS management which was recently instituted … [Interjections.] Thank you very much, Madam Chair. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

UMntwana M M M ZULU: Sihlalo, mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe uNyambose, iPhini lakho, izikhulu zamaphoyisa oKhomishana bonke, oSomaqhuzu, abahlonishwa Amalunga ale Ndlu ahloniphekile. Ngqongqoshe, ngithi namhlanje ngikufisela inhlanhla ukuthi usebenze kahle ku 2010 ukuze izwe lakithi lingangeni ehlazweni, Nyambose. Nina njengamaqhawe-ke namaqhawekazi aleli lizwe ngoba nakhulisa iLembe, kuzofuneka ukuthi lo msebenzi uwuthwale ukuze singangeni ehlazweni ngoba ihlazo liyinto embi kwelakithi.

Mhlonishwa, Ngqongqoshe, okunye engingakucela kuwe njengoNgqongqoshe walawa maphoyisa ukuthi kubekhona indlela yokuthi kubekhona ukuqeqeshwa ekuphathweni kwabantu uma befika eziteshini zamphoyisa bezobika imikhuba ebehlelayo ezweni lonke. Mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe, ngiphinde ngingene kancane kulokhu, ngithi kungephulile kancane ukuthi iPhini likaNgqongqoshe lithi lokhu okubizwa ngama-Street Committees kuzothiwa ama-reservists. Ama- reservists noma abantu abangabasizi bamaphoyisa — yinto esemthethweni ukuthi laba bantu baqeqeshwe ngoba bengicabanga ukuthi mhlawumbe nikhuluma le ndaba ngoba nifuna ukuvula isikole soqonda abazobe behamba beshaya abantu ngezagila ebusuku. Kodwa uma kuzoba nokuqeqeshwa, Nyambose, ngizwa nginokukwethemba ngoba njengomuntu owake welusa izinkomo, uyazi ukuthi kuyaye kwenziwe njani uma kukhona izinto ezithile ezenzekayo.

Ngiyazi ukuthi ezikhathini ezingaphambili imisebenzi yamaphoyisa kwesinye isikhathi yayiye ingabi mihle yoniwa yithina njengabantu, ngoba isidalwa esingumuntu siyohlala sibuthakathaka njalo ngoba sihlala siba nezinhloso zaso emsebenzini esiwenzayo. Kodwa-ke angisho ukuthi wonke amaphoyisa asezweni lakithi ngcolile — awangcolile neze kodwa kukhona okuthile.

Bese ngithi ku-Detective Services, mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe, kukhona amacala ayaye avulwe aphinde achithwe ezinkantolo ngenxa yokuthi abaseshi basuke bengazange bacoshe konke okuphathelene nalawo macala, bese inkantolo ize ingcine isiwachithile. Nalapho ngiyafisa Ngqongqoshe, ukuthi kwisabelomali sakho salonyaka wezimali kube nokuqeqeshwa ukuthi baqeqeshwe kahle laba bantu ukuze bakwazi ukubhekana nezigilamkhuba. Bese ngithi-ke mina, sengethule ikepisi lezombusazwe noma ukuphikisana — ngithi Ngqongqoshe mhlonishwa, ngiyaye ngiphatheke kabi noma ngiphatheka kabi ngezigilamkhuba zezepolitiki — osekwenzeke laphaya eMdlovana. UMdlovana i-Greytown, isenhliziyweni yami ngoba yilapho kwagwetshwa khona ubabamkhulu egwetshwa intambo ngisho i-life sentence waze wayogugela ejele. Leyo ndawo kufanele niyibheke nisebenzane nayo ukuze izigilamkhuba ziboshwe ngendlela efanelekile.

Sengiphetha, Ngqongqoshe — ngiyaxolisa Sihlalo. Sengiphetha, Ngqongqoshe, ngicela ukuthi kungenwe nguwena lokhu, ngalesi sizathu esisodwa nje Ngqongqoshe sokuthi siyaye sibone sengathi umsebenzi wamaphoyisa, uthathwa abanye bo-MEC bakho. Akufanele lokho ngoba sinoKhomishana bamaphoyisa kanti nina ningama-heads of department ngokwepolitiki, ngalokho-ke kufanele ninikeze ama-HOD kwezamaphoyisa ukuthi kube yiwona abhekana nabantu. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)

[Prince M M M ZULU: Chairperson, hon Minister Mthethwa, your Deputy, the authorities of the Police Service who are commissioners, commissioned officers and all the hon members of this House. Minister, I would like to wish you well in doing your work in 2010 so that the country does not get bad publicity, Nyambose. You, the Mthethwa clan, are the heroes and heroines of this country because you brought up King Shaka; therefore, you should take upon yourself the responsibility of the Police Service so that the country does not receive bad publicity, because it is a very bad thing where I come from.

Hon Minister, another thing that I want to request from you as the Minister of Police is that the police throughout the country must be trained on how to treat the members of the public when they come to report incidents. Hon Minister, I want to briefly comment on what your deputy said, who referred to the changing of street committee members into reservists. The reservists or the police assistants by law should be trained. The impression I got when you mentioned this was that you were looking at opening an academy for security guards who are going to assault people with knobkerries at night. If they are going to be trained, I am putting my trust in you as a former herd-boy because you know how things are dealt with there.

I know that the work of the police was not good previously because of people like us, because a human being will always be weak because he always has other intentions in the work that he does. I am by no means saying that all the police in our country are corrupt, but there are some corrupt elements.

Hon Minister, some cases are struck off the roll because the detectives have not done their job regarding those cases. Minister, in your budget allocation for this year, I wish it could cater for the training of these people in order for them to be able to deal with the criminals.

I will now take off my political cap. The matter regarding the political crime hurts me a great deal, especially regarding what happened in Mdlovana location. Mdlovana location is in Greytown, which holds a special place in my heart because that is where my great-grandfather was executed. By this I mean that he was given a life sentence and he ended up getting sick in jail. You must look at that prison so that the criminals can be handled in a proper manner.

Minister, in closing, I would like to apologise Chairperson. Minister, I am directing this one to you because we have observed that the work of the Police Service is being taken care of by your MECs. That should not be the case because we have the commissioners of police, and not heads of department who are politically deployed people. You must delegate the heads of department to be the ones dealing with the people. [Applause.]]

Mnu H YAWA (North West): Ndiyabulela kakhulu sekela-sihlalo, Mphathiswa waMapolisa, Nyambose, nesekela lakho uMpondomise, nazo zonke izidwangube nezidwangubekazi ezilapha, kunye nabaxwayi bemixhaka bezwe lakowethu, amapolisa, siyanibulisa. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[Mr H YAWA (North West): Thank you very much, Deputy Chairperson. Minister of Police, Nyambose and Mpondomise your deputy, all the dignitaries who are present here and high ranking officials of our country, the police, I greet you.]

Deputy Chairperson, in supporting Budget Vote No 22, I wish to stress at the outset that the days of moaning, ivory towers and armchair criticism about the high levels of crime instead of being actively involved in the fight against crime are over. The mandate that our people bestowed on the ANC on 22 April 2009 was for us to pursue their aspiration for security and comfort as envisaged by our revolutionary compass — the Freedom Charter.

The endorsement of our call “Working together we can do better”, through the ballot by an overwhelming majority of our people, supported the notion of an active, and not a passive citizenry. We are encouraged by the patriotism and selfless dedication of over 5 000 of our youth participating in our volunteer programme against crime as reservists. The enthusiasm of our youth, street committees and community policing forums testify that our people are yearning for effective, accountable and democratic policing.

It is in pursuit of this objective that we targeted seven municipalities in North West for participation in our Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design Strategy pilot project that was launched in partnership with our community policing forums in the past financial year. This initiative was part of our Letsema Campaign for the February Safety Month to eliminate crime hotspots by cutting overgrown vegetation along footpaths, demolishing disused houses used as hideouts to conduct criminal activities and installing high mast lights.

We intend to expand this programme to all our municipalities for participation because our municipalities need to shed the notion that crime prevention is not their core business. They are critical partners who should be at the forefront of mobilising support within communities in order to intensify the fight against crime and its causes.

As the leading agency in the Provincial Joint Operational and Intelligence Structure, supported by other government departments and stakeholders serving on the structure, we proudly demonstrated zero tolerance to criminal activities with the view to reducing the level of crime in and around the host city of Rustenburg during the Fifa Confederations Cup games. Our crime prevention and traffic law-enforcement operations were a resounding success with no major crime incidents reported during the games.

As a result of the support that we received from youth and community policing forums in the Rustenburg area cluster, 216 people were arrested for various crimes, and various suspected stolen property, vehicles, illegal drugs, precious stones, firearms and ammunition were recovered. One hundred and two people were also issued with traffic fines for violation of road traffic regulations, and undocumented foreigners were arrested.

We intend sustaining the onslaught against violent crime such as house robberies, business robberies and vehicle and truck hijacking throughout the province until and beyond 2010. We are strengthening our partnership with the provincial chapter of Business Against Crime in North West as they have embraced President Zuma’s clarion call to work together with government and our communities to advance the fight against the scourge of crime and its causes.

The Automatic Numberplate Recognition technology that the organisation had deployed during the Fifa Confederations Cup in support of our crime prevention and traffic law enforcement operations has assisted us in achieving resounding success. We value their partnership and realisation that fighting crime is not just a responsibility of the police, but the responsibility of all citizens, our youth, our churches and faith-based organisations, our traditional leaders, farmers and community-based organisations, the nongovernmental sector, stakeholders and all sectors of our communities.

In line with our Safe Schools Programme, we have stepped up our collaborative efforts with the Department of Education and our respective school governing bodies for implementation of the Adopt-a-Cop, Little Commissioner and Operation Naughty Boy strategies to reclaim our schools from the drug dealers who seek to destroy our valued future leaders. The partnership is to be strengthened to ensure that there is no hole big enough for drug dealers to hide in as we intensify our collaborative efforts to uproot them from our schools, our streets and our communities.

As part of our oversight, we will continue with our unannounced visits to police stations in order to check service delivery, particularly at night, and deal with challenges that are facing our community policing forums.

Working together we can do more to ensure that our people enjoy the freedom guaranteed by our Constitution for the peaceful and safe neighbourhoods that they deserve.

Sekela-Sihlalo, nam mandaleke umsundulo kwintetho ethethwe khona apha kwanamazwi kaSekela-Mphathiswa noMphathiswa wethu, athi kulo nyaka kufanele sibe ngathi siyaliqinisa iqondo lokulwa izigebenga phakathi kwabantu bakowethu, kwaye sithi wambu amapolisa akowethu ngemisebenzi athe ayenza ngeli lixa besibambe imidlalo yendebe yeentshatsheli zamazwekazi kweli lizwe.

Sifuna ukuthi kubo umgangatho mawungehli, madoda neentokazi zakowethu; mawunyukele phezulu ukwenzel’ ukuba izigebenga ziphume kwilizwe lakowethu, zingabi nandawo.

Siyavumelana nawe, Mpondomise, kodwa ngenxa yokuba ndilikholwa andizi kulibiza elinye igama: Yenzeka into kuwe tsotsi. Liza kutshon’ emini, ubaleke ungekakhalelwa yingqangqolo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Deputy Chairperson, let me also add to the speech that was delivered here and to our Deputy Minister’s words that this year we must intensify the fight against criminals in our communities and to honour our police officers for their good work during the Fifa Confederations Cup. We urge them to upgrade their good working standards even more in order to kick criminals out of our country and leave them with no place to hide.

We agree with you, Mpondomise, but I will not mention the other word because I am a Christian: Something will happen to you, tsotsi. You will be in deep trouble and have to escape unceremoniously.]

Mr J J GUNDA: Chairperson, Minister, Deputy Minister, MECs and hon members, there is no doubt that the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security cluster is faced with mounting challenges in the fight against crime.

Over the past few years the intelligence and crime-fighting agencies have often spent more time fighting against each other than fulfilling their mandate to create a secure society for our people.

We would like to appeal to government and the department to ensure that this does not happen again. We would also like to remind the department that fighting crime must involve a holistic approach, with a huge emphasis on stamping out the root causes of crime.

Die Polisie moet weer ons trots wees. Daar moet weer dissipline in die SA Polisiediens wees. [Our police force should make us proud again. Discipline should once again prevail in the SA Police Service.]

The ID’s vision involves implementing the kind of solutions that promote the idea of collective action for collective security. Our social democratic adherence to the principle of people-centred development means that partnerships with communities and community policing forums, CPFs, should receive special attention. We must provide CPFs with resources and equipment and encourage police to work more closely with them.

The costs of alcohol abuse and its links to criminal activities are not properly accounted for in South Africa. In 2006, for instance, 47% of homicide victims were drunk at the time of death. We must therefore effectively enforce the laws on underage drinking, while liquor licenses should be more strictly controlled and restricted to a certain number within each community.

Forensic laboratories should be given proper resources and more detectives should be hired to ensure the increase in conviction rates. We welcome the fact that the Minister has already answered that one.

Besides this, we must give far more attention to the reintegration of offenders into society and the reforming of prison systems, but today I would like to say to the hon Minister and hon Deputy Minister to look at police stations throughout this country. The condition that some are in is not good. There are police stations, for instance, in my constituency in the Kalahari and Andriesvale, to which you can go at 21:05 in the evening and stand there waiting until 00:25 without ever seeing a policeman. And the doors are open!

In Andriesvale kan jy maar gaan kyk. Dit het al meer as tien keer gebeur — dis in my kiesafdeling, ek werk daar — dis die werklikheid. En ons mense moet die waarheid in die oë begin staar. Die werklikheid is dat baie polisiebeamptes … [Tyd verstreke.] [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[You can just go and see what is happening in Andriesvale. It has happened more than ten times — it’s my constituency, I work there — it’s a reality. And our people should start facing the truth. The reality is that many police officers … [Time expired.][Applause.]]

Mr M W MAKHUBELA: Deputy Chairperson, Minister of Police, Deputy Minister, members of the House, ladies and gentlemen, I want to warn the ANC about proclaiming that they will rule until the world ends. You are insulting God and you will drop in 2014. In 2014 you are going down. [Interjections.] In 2014 you are going down!


Mr M W MAKHUBELA: I appreciate the speech by the Deputy Minister and the Minister. You are even commended on it, but I would like to differ slightly from the professionalism by naming the Operation Washa Wanya. That is not professional. Please revisit that. [Interjections.]

The interference of the politician in the investigations and into police activities is very, very bad. When something happens, the MEC or politician must stay away from the scene of the crime, because it is where you destroy evidence and you are going to be blamed for the fact that you are not performing. Do not do that! Visit the victims in hospitals or at their homes.

Minister, I am glad that you’ve mentioned other programmes, but you forgot the ICD, Independent Complaints Directorate, and the National Secretariat for Safety and Security. The ICD investigates crime over the whole country, but there is not enough staff. The Police Service currently has 183 000 employees and the ICD cannot investigate all the misconduct of the police. Please revisit that.

The filling of the intelligence posts is also long overdue. I’m happy that you mentioned that you are going to make appointments this month. It was a worrying factor.

Regarding the issue of the new unit replacing the former Scorpions, I wonder if those 51 members who were appointed — and the remaining 227 who are going to be incorporated — were appointed according to the professional requirements or according to the ANC’s requirements. The ANC requirements involve the sabotaging of railway lines, being in exile on Robben Island, etc. That kind of thing is out! You must appoint the person who knows the job. [Interjections.]

I would also like to remind the Minister to check the senior management service personnel to determine whether all those who were appointed have the necessary qualifications.

Regarding the aspect of the DNA, you say it takes only 35 days, but that is wrong! I investigated the case of KwaZulu-Natal; it takes longer! Please revisit that.

On the point of police killings … [Time expired.]

Mr A G MATILA: Deputy Chairperson, Minister and Deputy Minister of Police, leadership of the police and hon members, allow me to say that the task of building partnerships against crime is fundamentally in line with the strategic goal of the ANC to combat crime.

This strategic goal is expressed candidly in the Ready to Govern and the RDP policy documents of the liberation movement. It maps out the police practices for the future democratic South Africa right after the unbanning. This debate must be located within the vision to transform the police and to ensure community participation against crime. It places community at the centre of the policing regime.

The relevance of community policing emanates from the fact that effective crime prevention requires co-operation between the police and the community, because crime cannot be prevented by the police alone. This reasoning of the ANC recognises that communities are responsible mostly for the successes of criminal prosecutions. Crime prevention and combating should be seen as a joint project between the police and the community. It is community members who act as witnesses, lay charges, make statements, testify in courts and assist the police in the execution of their functions and duties.

Over the past 15 years, the ANC-led government has made great progress in building partnership momentum against crime. The 2009 ANC manifesto has identified crime problems and corruption as priorities in the next five years. It has a specific focus on certain categories of crime, such as violent crime and organised crime. This budget must capacitate the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation in order to combat organised crime and corruption. President Zuma’s state of the nation address reaffirms this vision.

In this regard, community policing needs to be strengthened as suggested by the ANC manifesto. According to the manifesto, in the next five years, government should, among other things, put more emphasis on mobilising communities to participate in combating crime through establishing street committees, community courts and community police forums, CPFs; visible policing to recruit more police; mobilising youth against crime; strengthening the Washa Tsotsi campaign and other anticrime structures.

Comrade Minister, we want to indicate that as the ANC and also as NEC members of the South African Civic Association Movement, we have taken a decision in the NEC of Sanco over the weekend that we will support the call the Minister has made and make sure that we relaunch Operation Pimpa as the civic movement. [Applause.]

Minister, firstly, we want you also to clarify the issue that has been raised when we were briefed as a committee about moving the CPFs to local government structures. Secondly, if you look at the budget it does not reflect the capacitation of CPFs. Does this department indicate that they are bringing in an unfunded mandate to local government structures and blame them for not delivering in future? We want the Minister to clarify that particular issue.

Thirdly, we would want the Minister to act urgently to deal with the issue around the unevenness of reservists, because they are treated unequally in different communities. The problem that we are faced with is that they are capacitated in affluent communities, but not capacitated in disadvantaged communities, and that has been a trend all along. We want the Minister to look at that particular situation and deal with the problems that affect those specific communities.

There is no doubt that the crime phenomenon remains a major problem affecting all communities, but mostly the impoverished communities with high levels of unemployment and poverty. Indeed, crime happens at all levels of the community. In this regard, perpetrators of crime tend to be young men, while victims mostly appear to be women and children. Effective approaches to crime must be premised on the fact that the phenomenon should be addressed in its causes.

There are many casual factors to crime. Crime should not be seen as a matter of law and order. While it is important to be tough on crime by way of promoting crime prevention through an effective criminal justice system, which typically involves a combination of vigorous policing and zero tolerance of criminals, equally the emphasis needs to be on the causes of crime and its violent nature. This is primarily to understand the concrete conditions of the specific society.

South Africa is still characterised by the terrible legacy of apartheid, involving violence, human rights abuses, racism and class and gender inequalities. As a consequence, it is difficult to combat crime through sectional approaches. In order to address the phenomenon, we need concerted holistic approaches that will be preventive and sustainable. In this regard, approaches to crime should be well-considered, effectively co- ordinated and comprehensive. This will help to promote approaches that are sustainable and measurable.

As indicated above, certain categories of crime appear to take some violent forms, particularly organised crime such as cash-in-transit robbery, car hijacking, car theft and contact crime such as murder, rape, assault, and so on. It is through multidisciplinary approaches that we can succeed in the struggle against crime in a manner that is preventative and measurable. Judging by the complexity of the problem, community involvement becomes central in the prevention of crime.

There is a need to strengthen community policing forums, village committees and neighbourhood watches with a view to promoting community involvement in order to accommodate the needs of victims, witnesses, activists, churches, businesses, NGOs, justice offices, parolees and the police. Perpetrators of violent contact crimes are known to their victims. Thank you. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF POLICE: Thanks, Chair. I would like to thank members who participated, wisely so, in this debate. There has been a thread running though this debate, and that is the issue relating to the Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD, and the secretariat. It is a genuine criticism. We did not touch on it. A very accepted criticism indeed, but members would know that the secretariat post has been advertised and due processes are taking place; firstly, with the aim of strengthening the secretariat itself and, secondly, with its difficulties that members know and have raised. The same goes with ICD. We need to look into the legislative capacity, as people have criticised that in the past.

I am intrigued by the hon member of the DA - not Wiley?


The MINISTER OF POLICE: Yes, hon Faber. He lists a lot of grievances here. I nearly mistook this forum for the one that accepts memoranda from members of society. [Laughter.]

What he forgets to say, conveniently so, is that this police service he is bashing has been working very hard whilst he and others were enjoying life’s pleasures. They were getting indigestion during the festive season while they were working throughout. I think, one day, if he finds a chance, he should say something positive.

We hosted the Indian Premier League, IPL, cricket together with the general elections in the country, and there were no problems because the police rose to the occasion, even when the prophets of doom predicted problems of security. He didn’t mention that! It does not matter to him. [Applause.]

Just last week we concluded a very successful Confederations Cup. Doomsayers again were saying we were going to fail. We proved them wrong! [Applause.] But it doesn’t matter. You know we are going to host the 2010 World Cup, hon Mageba, and we can say, even here and now, that the security forces led by the SAPS are ready to take up the challenge, but I also know that there are people who are going to be disappointed. Sorry for them, but we will succeed! And that will happen. [Interjections.]

You know, the uninformed cheap politicking, giving expression to the statement that recruitments in the police are by political affiliation, has to be dismissed. Police are recruiting in a professional way according to set guidelines. We have old police who have been in the system for a long time, like the hon member here. The commissioner, you know, was recruited not because of political affiliation. [Laughter.] It is dangerous statements like these which we need to refute, because they have no basis.

I find the issue of statistics interesting. In the other House yesterday a member of the DA just passed notes through. DA politicians have this obsession with statistics. Statistics are there on a daily basis. They are used by the police to plan operations, because that is what statistics are for. They are not for the DA; they are for the police, so I do not know what he is going to do with the statistics.

Honestly speaking, I do not think he has the capacity to understand them and to plan the fight against crime. [Interjections.] It really does not make sense. Absolutely!

He then says that the President failed to announce the Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences Unit and all these other things. Well, the President is not the Minister of Police. He is the President of the Republic of South Africa. [Applause.] The Minister of Police together with the Deputy has to say something on this. And if you were listening, we did and we pointed the way forward. I am not going to go back, but we will reproduce some copies. We will make sure that we get copies.

Regarding the issues members have raised about the detectives, we have pointed to that because members’ observations are correct and the criminal justice review has pointed to that. As a result we had to speak about that and say what has been happening since April this year, and what is planned for the future. Indeed, it is a genuine criticism.

The hon Wiley talks about crime intelligence being weak in the Western Cape. He talks about the Western Cape being the worst. You see, the Western Cape for the past five years has been witnessing a decrease in crime statistics of 32%. For this year, the crime statistics are not out. Yet he comes here and says a lot of things, as if he is saying something serious and important when, in fact, he does not know.

He is supposed to come here and say, “I am ignorant about this”, and ask. Here are the commissioners. Here is everybody who would offer that assistance with pleasure, without confusing things.

The issue of crime intelligence being weak needs to be explained. What does it mean if one says crime intelligence in the Western Cape is weak? There has to be issues which have to be raised.

Baba Mageba, njengoba sisho nje sizimisele ngo2010 kakhulu, njengale eminye imidlalo esiphuma kuyona. Nathi siyalisaba kakhulu ihlazo, sokwenza okusemandleni njengabantu ababhekelene nokuthula nokuphepha ezweni lakithi ukuthi kube njalo. Uyabona-ke Mageba, lena yamakomidi asekuhlaleni cha, hhayi nani ngeke savumelana. Baba ngoba into ebalulekile ngayo ukuthi njengohulumeni kungafani nelungu elihloniphekile isibonelo. uWiley ngiyabekisa, njengohulumeni sithi abaxexwe kukhulunywe nawonke, bagqugquzele umphakathi wonke ngezinhlaka ngokuhluka kwazo ukuthi ubambe iqhaza ekulweni le mpi nobugebengu.

Kodwa ngijabulile ukuthi awuyithathanga wayibeka la ibekwe khona umhlonishwa uWiley othi kunezingane eziyi-128 ezishonile lapha eNtshonalanga koloni. Uma ubazi ubezokwazi ukuthi uNgqongqoshe wakulesifunda kanye noNgqongqoshe Wamaphoyisa kanjalo noNgqongqoshe Wabesifazane naBakhubazekile bahlangene ngaloludaba bayalubuka loludaba olufana nalolu kodwa-ke lilonke siyabonga kakhulu malunga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Hon Mageba, we have stated that we are ready for 2010, just like we were for the other games that we hosted. We are also afraid of bad publicity. As the people who are tasked to ensure that there is safety and security in our country, we will do everything in our power to achieve that. Mageba, when it comes to the issue of ward committees, I must say that I do not concur with you on that issue. The government does not share the same sentiments expressed by the hon member Wiley, if I can use that as an example. As government we say that they must be persuaded to encourage members of our diverse communities to participate in this fight against crime.

I must, however, state that I am glad that you did not take it as far as the hon Wiley did, who said that 128 children died in the Western Cape. If he knew about this matter, he would know that the MEC of this province, the Ministers of Police and of Women, Youth, Children and People with Disabilities are working together regarding this matter. Thank you all hon members.]

Thank you very much for your constructive criticism. Thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 32 – Trade and Industry:

The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Deputy Chairperson, this is the first time that I am speaking in the NCOP during this term. I would like, therefore, to congratulate you, the Chairperson, and all others members on your election and express the view that this will be the first, no doubt, of many constructive engagements with this House.

When I had an opportunity to speak in this Chamber during the last Parliament, I expressed the view that our Constitution was singularly vague when it came to prescribing the specific roles of national, provincial and local government in promoting economic development. Schedule 6 of the Constitution defines “trade”, without any further qualifications, as a “concurrent function between national and provincial governments”, and all spheres of government recognise that they have roles and responsibilities in promoting economic development.

I want to suggest that as we go about responding to the electoral mandate to create decent work and sustainable livelihoods on a much enlarged scale, it will be necessary that we work together much more effectively within the spirit of co-operative governance to clarify our respective roles and bring about much greater co-ordination and effort between us.

As we all know, we are in the midst of the worst global economic crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s. The present crisis has seen a sharp decline in economic activity across the world. In South Africa we have seen sharp contractions in mining and manufacturing in particular, and this crisis and the decline in manufacturing output in particular threaten to bring about job losses in a sector of our economy which has significant potential to create decent work.

Given this context, it has become imperative for all of us to significantly raise our game and enhance the implementation of our strategies and policies both to preserve jobs and strategic industrial capacity threatened by the recession, and to simultaneously place our economy on a new, more labour-absorbing growth path.

This challenge of preserving and enhancing our industrial capacity is intertwined with the challenge of promoting a more geographically balanced spread of economic activity throughout the country. We need to acknowledge and recognise that there are very strong economic forces which tend to concentrate economic activity in the established urban areas of our country while simultaneously marginalising from economic opportunities people who reside outside the major metros.

Purposeful interventions are therefore required to try to bring about a more equitable geographic spread of economic activity and opportunity. These interventions have to be based, in the first instance, on an objective and sober assessment of the economic potential of particular areas and, then, on the implementation of strategies well thought out and crafted to promote that potential. In doing so, the mandate of this administration is to be bold, focused and energetic in rising to these challenges.

This is the approach that the Department of Trade and Industry is taking in confronting the challenge both of responding to the crisis and of trying to promote more sustainable, longer-running industrial development.

We launched the national industrial policy framework and the first industrial policy action plan in the years 2007 to 2008. This set us on a path to a more significant and comprehensive industrial policy agenda. Since the launch of the first industrial policy action plan, we have made important progress including the launch of the automotive development programme, the finalisation of measures to restructure the clothing and textile competitiveness programme, and the implementation of new support measures, business process outsourcing, tourism, crafts and film and television sectors.

This progress shows that comprehensively researched, targeted and well- designed interventions do make a difference and this provides us with confidence going forward. However, we are not yet at the required level of ambition with respect to the impact of our industrial policy in order for us to be able to achieve the kinds of goals which our manifesto demands of us.

Our challenge, therefore, is to substantially raise the impact of industrial policy interventions both at sectoral and crosscutting levels. This will require that we simultaneously build the necessary capacity required for higher impact industrial policy implementation. In addition, it is clear that successful scaling up of industrial policy interventions will require that we approve co-ordination across the different spheres of government. Indeed, this imperative has taken on a new dimension as the government also reacts to strengthen its rural development programmes.

Scaled-up industrial policy will require more co-ordinated actions based in all three spheres of government. It will require us to be more strategic and smart in aligning various programmes and activities across the spheres of government. Industrial policy can never be seen as an exclusive domain of one department, the Department of Trade and Industry. Rather, it is a collaborative venture of government in all spheres, acting in partnership with economic actors to implement agreed interventions emerging from strategic consultation.

During the term of this administration, an important objective, accordingly, will be to substantially improve interaction between our department and our colleagues in the provinces around programmes to promote more effective development. In this regard, we must look closely at how we can improve the effectiveness of Minmecs.

In enhancing our efforts to tackle these challenges of uneven development of the spatial economy, we will need to review past practices, identify gaps and build on what has been successful. We have developed important programmes and vehicles in the period since 1994. These include industrial development zones, IDZs. Most members of the council, I’m sure, will be aware that IDZs exist at the moment in Coega, East London, Richards Bay, and that there is the IDZ link to O R Tambo International Airport. The IDZs have operated by providing a particular infrastructure and opportunities of concentration around that infrastructure, orientated particularly towards export activity. The IDZs have therefore been linked to major international airports and to ports and can be a key component of industrial development efforts in that they offer duty-free entry of inputs which are then used to manufacture products that are exported in special customs administration arrangements. The IDZs which we have in place have all had some limited success in achieving their objectives, but could all potentially, however, reach much higher levels of activity.

Together with our partners in Minmec we have identified the need for a significant review of the operation of IDZs as well as for a new governance framework for these zones. Among other things, IDZ policy must define more clearly the roles of national government, provinces and local government in the establishment of IDZs, as well as in the operation of authorities responsible for running them.

In addition to that, there is a need for a clear funding stream and an incentive programme for IDZs. What we need to recognise, however, is that IDZs are a model applicable to specific activities in certain parts of the country. We also therefore need to develop and push forward other models to support more geographically spread economic development.

One of these is the special economic zones, SEZs. A number of candidates for designation of SEZs have already been identified. They include the Umsobomvu development zone in the Eastern Cape, the Northern Cape diamond hub, the Wadeville-Alrode Industrial Corridor, and other areas in KwaZulu- Natal, the Western Cape and Mpumalanga. Beyond this, we anticipate assisting municipalities with developing particular industrial clusters and a series of support services and schemes related both to SEZs and municipal industrial structures. The DTI has also increasingly become a key role-player in the formulation of strategies at district and metro municipal levels, as well as in supporting provincial governments in spatial economic planning. Other programmes we have been implementing since 1994 are the spatial development initiatives or corridors. These are aimed at building infrastructure, such as road or transport links, based on packages of identified investment opportunities and then embarking on co-ordinated investment recruitment drives for the particular SDIs.

In all of these initiatives I just mentioned, much of the policy work has been completed. This has involved defining and refining strategies and modes of implementation, but over the years we have experienced significant implementation challenges and challenges of co-ordination. It is in this context that I believe that the newly established Department of Economic Development will be of enormous benefit in working with us.

We expect that the new Department of Economic Development will strengthen interaction with the provinces through, among other things, strategic Minmecs to develop joint programmes in areas of concurrent jurisdiction. Key areas of focus identified in this regard will include industrial policy, rural development, trade and investment promotion and SMME support.

A more focused and rigorous Minmec process is a practice which, we believe, needs to be taken forward. This approach will involve identifying bottlenecks, policy interventions and ensuring alignment and harmonisation of efforts and capacity-building for service delivery.

Inasmuch as industrial development is a key component of the government’s drive to promote decent work opportunities, the development of co- operatives and the co-operative movement must be identified as another major priority. Co-operatives provide a major opportunity for sustainable livelihoods for many people, especially those in rural areas. The DTI will certainly be doing much more to encourage the growth and development of co- operatives, and we will be paying much closer attention to this important issue in the period ahead. Other ongoing initiatives to broaden participation in the economy will be outlined in the speech by Deputy Minister Ntuli.

The valuable contribution of this Council in the area of regulatory reform also needs to be acknowledged. The corporate law reform project started in 2004 culminated in the passage of the Companies Act last year. This important piece of legislation seeks to alleviate the regulatory burden and the cost of doing business, particularly for small enterprises, by cutting the red tape and the cost of registering limited liability companies.

Last year we also enacted the Consumer Protection Act. This provides, for the first time in South Africa, a significant legislative basis to support and strengthen a culture of consumer rights. The 2008 Competition Amendment Act, when enacted, will strengthen the ability of the state to combat cartel-type activities and to deal with complex monopoly conduct in highly concentrated markets.

We will ensure that these new laws are effectively implemented, particularly given their importance in facilitating fair conditions for enhanced entry and participation in markets by small, medium and micro enterprises.

The DTI is working with provinces on an assessment of the process of issuing liquor licences for distributors and manufacturers. This will extend to a review of the liquor industry in South Africa, focusing on the efficacy of the regulation of that industry. Certainly, improving the efficacy of the licensing process will greatly ease the entry into formal operations of small and medium businesses and thereby enhance the transformation of the liquor industry as a whole.

At the same time, more focus will be given to assessing the social impact of alcohol trading and consumption. With this in mind, licence criteria are being drafted to ensure that distributors and manufacturers increase their outreach programmes in combating alcohol abuse.

I welcome the fact that the NCOP continues to take an active interest in international trade negotiations. We had an opportunity to speak on these matters in the NA, and I don’t want to repeat the points in any detail here, but I want to emphasise that we remain committed to the promotion of trade relations that are supportive of our economic development objectives and our industrial policy in particular.

Advancing effective development-orientated regional integration in Southern Africa remains an important strategic priority in our trade policy. This, in our view, requires an agenda that does not exclusively focus on unrealistic timetables for formal trade integration arrangements, but on co- operative programmes to build regional productive capacities and promote regional infrastructure development – which are, in fact, in our view, vital prerequisites to advance trade integration arrangements.

As I indicated in my speech in the NA, we remain concerned that the interim economic partnership agreements, EPAs, now signed between some members of the Southern African Development Community EPA configuration and the European Union could undermine regional integration. We will, as South Africa, continue to work to minimise the negative impact of interim EPAs on the region, and we have called on the European Union in particular to refrain from implementing any provision in the EPAs that could strain the Southern Africa Customs Union.

The global economic crisis has brought into even more stark relief the need to strengthen South-South trade and co-operation relations, with a view to diversifying both our export destinations and our export basket. Brazil, India and China have emerged as highly dynamic emerging economies, leading a structural shift in the global economy in which developing countries have been enjoying a rapidly growing share of world trade. Building our trade and investment relations with these new centres of global economic power will require purposeful engagement. Thank you very much. I almost finished! [Applause.]

Mr D D GAMEDE: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. I nearly offered a few minutes of my time to the Minister, but I wasn’t given that opportunity.

Okokuqala, Sihlalo, mangibongele uNgqongqoshe umhlonishwa uDokotela uRob Davies, ngokuqokelwa kulesi sikhundla asiqhoqhobele. Ngiphinde ngibongele abahlonishwa Amaphini oNgqongqoshe uThandi Tobias-Pokolo, kanye noMama uB M Ntuli owaziwa ngelikaMaNtuli, ngokukhethelwa kulezi zikhundla. Ukuqokwa kwabo kukhombisa ukuthi abantu besifazane banalo ikhono lokuhola nokuphatha izikhundla. Hayi njengoba sibona lapha eNtshonalanga Kapa lapho kwenzeke ezinye izinto.

Sihlalo, inhloso yaloMnyango ukuhola nokwenza isimo sokuhweba sibe sihle; ukushintsha isimo sezomnotho; ukukhulisa umnotho nokwenza ukulingana ekutholeni amathuba kwezomnotho kanye nokwakha amathuba omsebenzi. Siyazi futhi Sihlalo, ukuthi lo Mnyango unezinhlangano ezaziwa ngegama elithi agencies ezicishe zibe ngama-20 okufanele ukuthi zisize lo Mnyango ekwenzeni umsebenzi obekelwe wona. Ezinye zalezi zinhlaka zisebenza kahle kanti ezinye kunemibuzo ngazo futhi imibuzo ehlukahlukene. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, firstly, I would like to congratulate the hon Minister Dr Rob Davies for being elected to this position. Again, I would like to congratulate the hon Deputy Ministers, hon Thandi Tobias-Pokolo and hon B M Ntuli, also known as MaNtuli, for being elected to these positions. Their election shows that women are capable of serving in leadership and administrative positions, unlike what we see here in the Western Cape, where this is not the case.

Chairperson, the aim of this department is to administer and make the trading state better, to overturn the economic state, promote economic growth, as well as equity with regard to economic opportunities and job creation. Chairperson, we know that this department has organisations known as agencies, approximately 20 in total, which will assist this department to deliver what is expected of it. Some of these structures are working very well, but there are different questions about others.]

Chairperson, as a committee we will deal specifically with different subprogrammes and other committee members will be dealing with the specifics. However, as a committee we have identified certain issues that we feel the Minister needs to attend to. I will mention a few issues that the committee feels needs the Minister’s urgent attention.

The first would be the tool to project performance and outcomes, especially on the contribution of decent job creation, as the President announced that we need to create 500 000 jobs by the end of this year. Secondly, we need a speedy integration of work, especially amongst agencies such as Khula, the Small Enterprise Development Agency, Seda, and the National Empowerment Fund; for instance, in KwaZulu-Natal you might have them maybe in one building or one block so as to assist communities. And thirdly, there should be a clear training and retention strategy for staff as a future investment.

One of the provisions of the Freedom Charter is that “The people shall share in the country’s wealth!” In today’s language we would be talking about BBBEE, the advancement of the SMMEs and co-operatives. I am happy that the Minister has mentioned and identified the challenge that is on the development and assistance of the co-operatives, except in KwaZulu-Natal where they have a framework for co-operatives.

I wish to quote what was said by the former President of Tanzania, Mwalimu Julius Nyerere: “We committed two basic mistakes in Tanzania.” I will not mention the first one because it is not relevant to this debate. The second one, he said, was that —

We abolished the co-operative movement. During the process of the liberation struggle, we had built up a strong co-operative movement as our economic powerbase. That was our worst mistake.

Now, this further emphasises the need to move with speed with co- operatives. Hon Minister, we notice that in the MTEF budget, the expanding electronic diversity has decreased for the years 2010-11, while we still have to address the imbalances of the past. Are we really going to be up to this challenge with this budget?

There was also a commitment in 2007 that employment creation in small businesses would be further supported through the creation of 15 or more small business incubators countrywide; where are we on that? Where are we on trying to develop the rural areas such as Gingindlovu, Nongoma, Msinga, Nkandla, Maphumulo and even Ulundi?

One of the key areas of focus for this department is industrial development. In KwaZulu-Natal there is the Richards Bay IDZ. This IDZ has not reached its potential. The people of KwaZulu-Natal are hoping to hear that there will be a deliberate focus on it this time around. Noting the international economic meltdown, in his state of the nation address, President Zuma said that the Industrial Development Corporation has developed programmes to fund companies in distress. The question is: How far are we on this? Because some companies have closed in KwaZulu- Natal, Mandeni, Richards Bay, the Eastern Cape, Whittlesea in King Williams Town, Butterworth and East London. How far are we even in other areas in trying to assist them to have industries? How far are we with developing the industrial policy action and when are we likely to implement this action plan?

Another challenge has been the use of more consultants, especially by other agencies such as Khula, Seda or any other agency. This tends to stretch the turnaround time and delays delivery. One community member visited me in my constituency and said that he has been waiting for about 18 months for a business plan. Even though he had submitted the business plan, he was told by Seda that they will get someone to do a business plan and that has taken 18 months.

We noted as a department that we have a good strategy. We have a good policy and we have good laws and the Minister has alluded to that, but we have a challenge in the implementation.

Before I conclude, I would appreciate it if you would share with this House the progress, though you have touched a little on the World Trade Organisation, WTO, and the Doha Round negotiations. We are confident that the political leadership of this department is equal to any task and that during your leadership rural areas will benefit more.

I have already invited the Deputy Minister, uMaNtuli, to my constituency when there was a briefing, while going around to the izimbizo, so that rural areas can also get services. We would also like to thank the officials from the department. We have engaged with them and we will continue to do our oversight role vigorously.

I wouldn’t be doing the matter justice if I did not remind members that we should all remember Nelson Mandela Day. Nelson Mandela went around South Africa saying the same thing over and over again. At every turn he emphasised in words and actions the importance of the ANC’s ideal of non- racialism and reconciliation. To prove that, he had tea with Betsie Verwoerd, wife of apartheid architect, Hendrik Verwoerd. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms S S CHEN: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, my hon colleagues, all distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, “Da jia, wan shang hao”. [Good evening, everybody.] I would first like to congratulate the Minister on his appointment, and would also like to compliment the hon Deputy Minister, the director-general and their team for the comprehensive, sincere and open report presented to our select committee on 26 June 2009.

Five years ago, I presented my maiden speech from this podium. I acknowledged the challenges of increasing job opportunities and decreasing poverty and unemployment. Today, these challenges remain. We are also facing new challenges. By now I am sure you are all very familiar with the term “global economic recession”. Minister Trevor Manuel warned us in his Budget Speech for 2009, and I quote:

… there is also the uncertainty about the burden that will be visited on future generations by the interventions being contemplated today.

We need to plan our strategy with caution by never using the current economic climate as an excuse. Our 2009 Budget Review clearly states in Chapter 1 that this is “… a time of crisis, a window of opportunity”.

Three of the most pressing issues are as follows: the need for better service delivery, better co-ordination and communication between government departments and the need to realise the goals of the framework for South Africa’s response to international crises. Government, in the role of a facilitator, needs to work with business and organised labour to protect job opportunities and accelerate skills development without direct interference in economic activity.

The DTI consists of more than 6 000 employees. It is a huge task to organise and manage such a workforce. We recognise that one of the biggest challenges facing the DTI is recruitment, retention and skills development.

Too often our government’s policies are well intended. However, our government’s capacity to implement these policies is an area of concern. It is crucial that the department is able to attract, develop and retain professionals of a high calibre. Therefore, I really hope that the new chief operations officer of the DTI is now in a position to lead the team forward.

This year, the DTI has been allocated a budget of R6,3 billion to achieve its strategic objectives. Of this budget, 61% has been allocated for incentive payments, mainly to promote direct investment in industrial and service economies, with the focus on job creation. We must aim to improve the productivity of our workforce. The economy works in cycles, and we must prepare our workforce for the expected upturn in the economy so that they may remain competitive.

Budgeting is not only about increasing expenditures on necessary activities; it is also about rooting out unnecessary waste, phasing out inefficient programmes and improving value for money. Therefore, with regard to the additional R1,6 billion budget allocated for industrial development and the support of small enterprises, we hope that the aim will not only be to spend more, but also to spend better.

Industrial policy is not the sole responsibility of the DTI, but rather the responsibility of all government departments. A greater sense of accountability needs to permeate the ethos of the government. At present we still do not have a clear picture of how the functions of the Department of Trade and Industry and the Department of Economic Development will be divided. Once this has been made clear, we hope that the monitoring system will be put in place to measure the success of each programme. As a matter of urgency, we also hope that a full report will be provided to ascertain what real growth has been achieved in the area of job creation.

We, the DA, vow to play a more active role in partnership with the DTI. We will also provide alternative economic policies so that we may grow an economy ripe with opportunities for all our South Africans, especially for the millions of the unemployed. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms M C DIKGALE: Chairperson, Ministers present, MECs, hon members, good evening. The administration of a department is a server of that department. As it is written that the department must be customer-centred, people who visit our desks must get the best services that will say much about what happens internally. It is important that our desks are user-friendly.

Mohlala, go na le ba bantši ba batho ba rena bao ba tsebago seo ba se tletšego mošomong mola go na le bao o ka gopolago gore ba thwaletšwe go bolela ka megala fela. Mogami wa kgomo ya lefiša o gama a lebeletše tsela. Ke re bjalo ka ge ye nngwe ya ditaba tšeo di hlohleletšago kgolo ya ekonomi e le phokotšo ya ditshenyegelo.

Mmušo wa rena o thekga go hlongwa ga National Empowerment Fund, NEF, gore e thuše Broad-based Black Economic Empowerment, BBBEE. Go hlongwa ga Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa, Asgisa, go hlohleletša kgolo ya ekonomi le go dira gore batho ba bantši ba be le kganyogo ya go ba kgwebong. Go fihla ga bjale, bontši bja bao ba sego ba ka ba kgona go iša ditšweletšwa tša bona ka ntle ga naga ba bontšha kgahlego. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[For example, there are many of our people who know what they are employed for, whereas there are those you might think are employed to only chat on the phone. It is of great importance that we consider our future. I am saying this because one of the ways of influencing economic growth is to minimise the costs.

Our government supports the establishment of the National Empowerment Fund, NEF, since it supports Broad-based Black Economic Empowerment, BBBEE. The establishment of the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa, Asgisa, influences economic growth and arouses people’s interests in starting their own businesses. Most people who never exported their products have now started to show some interest in doing so.]

Let praise be given to our government, led by the ANC.

Go laeditše gore go bonolo kudu go dira kgwebo le batho ba ga borena ba ka ntle ga naga. Mohlala, profenseng ya Limpopo, re na le batho bao ba rekišago ditšweletšwa tša bona Botswana, Namibia, Malawi, Mozambique le dinageng tše dingwe. Go bonolo kudu go batho ba Botswana go tliša mašotša mo Afrika-Borwa. Mašotša ke dijo tša kgauswi tšeo batho ba kgonago go di reka. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[It has been proved that it is very easy to do business with people who are outside our country. For example, in Limpopo province there are people who export their products to Botswana, Namibia, Malawi, Mozambique and other countries. It is very easy for the people in Botswana to bring Mopani worms to South Africa. Mopani worms are the foodstuffs that people find easy to buy.]

This shows that a person who produces food from their backyard can export it to other countries.

Direto di sa romelwa mmušong wa rena wa lehono ka ge bana ba ga borena le bommago rena ba kgona go tshelela ka nageng ya Afrika-Borwa. Batho ba ba tšeere karolo kudu kua morago ge baswana ba sa gateletšwe. Baswana be ba tšhabela dinageng tša ga bo bona gomme ba ba amogela. Bafaladi ba bangwe ba tliša bohodu le bosenyi, eupša bontši bja bona ba tlišitše kgodišo ekonoming. Re humane batho ba bantši bao e lego boramahlale go tšwa go bona, gape re na le dingaka tša bokgabo go tšwa dinageng tša Afrika.

Mmušo wa rena wo o eteletšego pele ke ANC ke ngwedi, o bonagala dikgopolo le dipelo tšeo di lego leswiswing. Manyami ke gore ge o e ya go wona ka tše mpe, o ka se lokelwe ke selo ka ge tše mpe di sa batamele ngweding. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[Let praise be given to our government because our people are able to cross the borders back to South Africa. These people contributed a lot back then when black people were still oppressed. Black people fled to their countries for safety and they welcomed them. Some of the refugees bring crime to our country, but most of them bring economic growth. We have many scientists and specialist doctors from other African countries.

Our government that is led by the ANC is like the moon; it shines its light on the minds and the hearts that are in darkness. The unfortunate part is that when you go to the government with bad intentions, you will not succeed since bad things will never come closer to the moon.]

The purpose of Trade and Industry is to build an equitable global trading system that facilitates development by strengthening trade and investments. It links with key economies by fostering African development through regional and continental integration and development co-operation in line with Nepad. The Mzansi project is aimed at showcasing South Africa’s arts and crafts that will be launched in 2009. Improvement of international relations …

… e tla dira gore go be le tlhlolego ya mešomo le kgodišo ya tša ekonomi. Ke eme mo go hlatsela le go thekga seo se bego se bolelwa ke Tona ya rena. Go a bontšha gore re a sobelela; re tšwela pele ka leeto. Morago gona ga re sa boela. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[… will bring about job creation and economic growth. I am here to stand by and to support what has been said by our Minister. The journey continues. We will never go back.]

I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr K A SINCLAIR: Chairperson and Minister, a lot has been said about the 52nd ANC conference in Polokwane and the policy directives of the new government and administration. When debating Budget Vote 32, it is necessary to evaluate the impact that Polokwane is having on the economic deliverables of South Africa.

Minister, I support the view of political scientist, Adam Habib, who said that Polokwane had two results. Firstly, it was a rebellion against the previous President, Thabo Mbeki, and, secondly, it was a revolution against capitalism and the Gear policy. The result of Polokwane further manifests in the fact that the unionists, socialists and communists have indeed taken over the heart and soul of the ANC. [Interjections.]

This reality is indeed prevalent in the post-Polokwane administration policies, directives and the appointment of Ministers and officials. This might be a short-term gain for the ANC, but is certainly not in the best interest for a long-term, sustainable growth and economic recovery after the worldwide economic recession. Hon Minister, nowhere in the world has a leftist, centralist approach been more successful than a free-market- related economy with a social conscience.

It seems that the post-Polokwane administration is more concerned about the poor than the real economic drivers and forces of the South African economy. To make almost 30% of the South African population dependent on state support seems to be beneficial to the ANC, especially during election times; then a food parcel can buy a vote. [Interjections.] If you listen to the senior leaders of the ANC when they say that the ANC will govern until God comes home, you will understand the rationale behind their original thinking. Their argument is to make the people poor and, through centralisation and government schemes, you can govern them and control their everyday living and wellbeing.

I am not a prophet, but it is a fallacy to think or to argue that the ANC will remain intact or in control forever. [Interjections.] I predict that the ANC will not survive another 10 years in government. [Interjections.]

Voorsitter, hoekom sê ek so? Die eerste rede is dat leë en vals beloftes die ANC gaan inhaal. Terwyl die privaatsektor 170 000 poste verloor het, kondig die regering aan dat hy 500 000 poste deur die Uitgebreide Openbare Werke-program gaan skep. Die tweede punt is dat die ANC as ’n organisasie, en as ’n onnatuurlike alliansie, nie ongeskonde gaan bly en in sy huidige vorm gaan voortbestaan nie.

Ons is bewus van die voortdurende struwelings tussen die kommuniste, die vakbonde en die gematigde ANC. Derdens, Voorsitter, en dalk die mees belangrike, is dat die arm mense van Suid-Afrika in opstand gaan kom teen die ekonomiese verdrukking. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, why am I saying this? The first reason is that empty and false promises will come back to haunt the ANC. Whilst the private sector lost 170 000 jobs, the government is proclaiming that it will create 500 000 jobs through the Expanded Public Works Programme. Secondly, the ANC as an organisation, and as an unnatural alliance, will not go unharmed and continue to exist in its current state.

We are aware of the continuous ructions among the communists, the unions and the moderate ANC. Thirdly, Chairperson, and perhaps most importantly, is the fact that the poor people of South Africa are going to revolt against the economic oppression]. [Interjections.]

Thank you, Chair. [Applause.] [Time expired.]

Mr A J NYAMBI: Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Ministers, officials of the department, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, I am one of the fortunate, because I can rightfully quote Polokwane as I was a delegate at Polokwane. [Interjections.] Here you have somebody who is quoting a person who was not even in Polokwane – what a joke!

Allow me to dedicate my speech to the poor in our villages, towns and cities, workers, youth, women, public servants, professionals, students, traditional leaders, farmers, religious leaders, soldiers, policemen and women, businesspeople and people from all walks of life who continue to contribute to our revolution on a daily basis.

The 22 April 2009 result of the election, coupled with the turnout, caused me to dedicate my speech to them. I can still hear the echo of their voices as we were going from door to door. We are more than grateful for the mandate given to the ANC.

We are meeting today in a month in which we will be celebrating the birthday of our icon, Tata Nelson Mandela. We will celebrate Mandela Day through community work with the theme of working together for the common good of our nation. This community work will be part of the partnership for reconstruction, development and progress, as announced by the President in his presidential inauguration address this year, in 2009. So my appeal to the hon members of this House is not to wait for 18 July to put to practice their working together for the common good of our nation. The common good will benefit all people from all walks of life, as articulated in my introduction.

The budget, as presented by the Minister, is very encouraging and inspiring. It is really inspiring, because it is done in an honest way that lays a concrete foundation for now and the future. The recent workshop by the Deputy Minister, Maria Ntuli, in Nkangala, Mpumalanga province, gives real hope to the people as real geographical economics spread.

The ANC has made a direct and practical response to the UN-generated criteria on the right of development. They are as follows: the conditions of living for most of the people, the conditions under which they work, and equality of access to resources.

A meaningful transformation should be the order of the day. I am referring to transformation as articulated by Paulo Freire who says:

Transformation is only valid if it is carried out with the people, not for them. Liberation is like childbirth, and a painful one. The person who emerges is a new person — no longer an oppressor or oppressed, but a person in the process of achieving freedom.

The achievement of democracy in 1994 marked the birth of our democracy as an African nation on the southern tip of the continent. It provided South Africans with the opportunity to set up a government based on the will of the people and to pursue economic growth, development and redistribution so as to achieve a better life for all. These tasks, which are at the core of the national democratic revolution, have to be undertaken in a global environment of contradictory tendencies. You will agree with the ANC that, indeed, we still have challenges of a global environment of contradictory tendencies.

We are definitely going to monitor department agencies, such as the National Empowerment Fund and Khula Enterprise to ensure that equity and empowerment objectives are achieved in line with the broader economic objectives. Indeed, we are definitely also going to monitor the payment system of small enterprises within the stipulated timeframe.

In its 2009 election manifesto, the ANC promised the people of South Africa that it would create more jobs, decent work and sustainable livelihoods. In living up to these promises, the ANC is committed to making the creation of decent work opportunities and sustainable livelihoods a priority. The correct contextualisation of the political mandate, as articulated by the Minister, gives the ordinary masses hope. It is clear that it will lead to and facilitate access to sustainable economic activity and employment for all South Africans through the understanding of trade relations.

Allow me to emphasise my point by quoting:

Our work is far from complete. We are only at the beginning of a long journey to a truly united, democratic and prosperous society, based on the principles contained in the Freedom Charter. Yet we are confident that the strategy and policies we have adopted will take us further towards the goal of a better life for all.

That is the declaration of the 52nd conference of the ANC in Polokwane. [Interjections.]

In conclusion, allow me to quote the icon of our struggle, Tata Nelson Mandela, when dealing with the President’s Budget Vote in the National Assembly on 22 April 1994:

When we seek to stop change and prevent equity, then we should know that we are not being true to the nation’s founding principles.

I thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY (Mrs B M Ntuli): Chairperson, hon Minister, members of the provincial executive committees, permanent delegates to the NCOP, hon members, despite my advanced years I am one of the two new kids on the block in the Ministry collective of the Department of Trade and Industry. However, my association with the DTI stretches back several years as a member of the portfolio committee.

I am therefore fortunate to have some insight into the challenges that face this huge department, whose primary role is to promote employment and equity through economic growth within a developmental state. As the ANC we will make no apology for this. This is the mandate endorsed by the majority of the electorate in April when we were returned as the governing party for the next five years. Therefore, if this is our mandate, it stands to reason that we must increase the pace and quality of delivery to our communities in order to realise our goals of creating decent work and sustainable livelihoods.

I’m pleased to note that the Enterprise Organisation, the division at the DTI that deals with grants and other incentive schemes, has an increased allocation in the current budget. The rationale for this is that expenditure on incentive schemes for small and medium enterprises will increase, and my wish is that it does so significantly.

Angisho ke njengalaba bantu abahlabelela le culo elithi: Ngimile ngimile eJordane, abanye bayawela ngithi abantu sesikhulise lemali ukuze bafike eJordane bawele. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[I do not want to sound like those people who are singing the song that says: I am standing on the banks of the river Jordan while others are crossing it; I am saying that we have increased these funds so that people can reach the river Jordan and cross it.]

This is a good sign and indicates that the development of small enterprises remains one of our top priorities. In the same light, the South African Micro-Finance Apex Fund has had an increase in its budget. This is a fund that assists vulnerable communities, mainly those in the rural areas.

Our budget shows impressive figures of businesses that have been assisted by our agencies, which are the Small Enterprise Development Agency, Khula and the National Empowerment Fund. While I acknowledge the role of our agencies and divisions in assisting communities, we dare not claim easy victories about our achievements. There are still challenges that need our attention, and one of them is the issue of procurement.

The reality is that we are not always getting value for the money spent and we have not successfully measured the impact of our programmes on the lives of the most vulnerable. We need to monitor our spending patterns much more closely, and here I would appeal to the select committee to exercise their oversight role robustly, if necessary.

It is the members of this Chamber who, via their provincial responsibilities, are closest to their communities and who I expect to confront us, as the DTI, with the realities. Continue to be our moral compass and redirect us, where necessary, to the path of economic upliftment and empowerment of our constituencies, particularly women and the youth.

On the matter of provinces, I have committed to meeting all the nine MECs to gauge what programmes they have prioritised for those who are currently operating outside of the mainstream economy. I also asked the MECs to form a better partnership with us, in order to enhance each other’s work and prevent duplication.

So far, I have met the MECs of Gauteng and the Western Cape and will complete all meetings before the end of July. I must say that what I have heard so far has given me considerable hope that together we can do more. There is no “one” in teamwork.

We cannot escape the fact that we present the budget against the backdrop of an economic crisis that has and will continue to affect all of us. Therefore, the matter of resources will always be an issue. We have to look at creative ways to make our budgets stretch. One of those I mentioned earlier; we are asking our provincial colleagues to partner with us in joint programmes.

Last night, I opened our National Co-Operative Mega Expo and Conference in Pietermaritzburg. The event will run until Saturday, 4 July, and it will be attended by 500 co-operatives from all over South Africa. [Applause.] The Department of Economic Development of KwaZulu-Natal, together with the municipalities of Msunduzi and uMgungundlovu, generously co-financed this event with the DTI.

I wish to convey my sincere thanks to MEC Mabuyakhulu, and the mayor of the two municipalities for their visionary thinking. Other provinces also provided logistical support to co-operatives from their regions, making it possible for them to attend the event. Of course, we would like to see the private sector partnering with us in this initiative. Maybe my next round of meetings after the MECs should be with the CEOs. In this way we are trying to co-ordinate our work better, and also free up resources that can practically and materially benefit co- operatives and other small enterprises.

We also need to grow the number of registered co-operatives. Besides the 17 000 registered co-operatives, there are more than 800 000 informal structures such as stokvels, burial societies, rural women’s organisations, church women, and so on. As we know, many of these informal saving societies and buying clubs are in the rural and peri-urban areas, and their membership has largely been women. I’m sure there are hon members of this House who, like me, are also members of such clubs.

I aim to intensify the work started by my predecessor in making sure that communities know what it is that the DTI can offer. To those who want to start or grow their businesses, my focus will be on rural, peri-urban, mainly women and youth formations. This, as always, will be done in conjunction with our provincial departments and local government counterparts. We will also explore the possibility of public-private partnerships for these events, because together we can do more.

Regarding enterprise development, our experience has taught us that there are challenges facing SMMEs, including managerial skills, access to finance, technological expertise and the overall capacity to deliver products and services to the market.

We will strengthen our response to these challenges through the further roll-out of the integrated small business strategy. This strategy aims at supporting small enterprise development through a matrix of programmes guided by five key strategic areas of intervention.

In short, the first strategic area of intervention focuses on improving access to business support information; the second will focus on increasing access to business finance, particularly micro and small enterprise finances. The third area of intervention lies in creating opportunities that provide small businesses with access to markets. The fourth strategic area focuses on forging partnerships for the establishment of business support infrastructure. Lastly, the fifth strategic area focuses on creating an enabling regulatory environment for the development and growth of SMMEs. The details related to these five strategic areas are well documented in the DTI Medium-Term Strategic Framework for 2009-12.

Next year our country will host one of the world’s premier sporting events, the Fifa Soccer World Cup. Our small business entrepreneurs must benefit from this and other global events staged by our country. The implementation of the five aforementioned interventions must be fast-tracked, especially the one regarding access to finance.

In this regard, I am pleased with the move by Khula to provide direct lending to the underserviced market for amounts between R10 000 and R250 000. But please, Khula, watch the interest rate that you will charge. Keep it as close to the repo rate as possible or Governor Mboweni will have to investigate you as well! [Laughter.]

Regarding our programmes for the economic empowerment of women, I am disappointed that we have not managed to increase the budget for the work of the South African Women Entrepreneurs Network, Sawen, significantly. However, I’m sure that, with discussions, we can be creative in making our resources stretch. Sawen remains the primary organisation for women-owned, mainly small enterprises, to access DTI services. We will increase our focus to assist women in rural areas.

I just wanted to say one thing that our women must know: A woman is not a “nobody”; a woman is a somebody who is capable of developing herself.

Ngiyabonga Mhlalingaphambili siyaluxhasa olu Hlahlo-lwabiwo Mali. [Thank you, Chairperson; we support this Budget Vote.] UMntwana M M M ZULU: Sihlalo, ngibonga ithuba onginikeza lona, ngithi Mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe iqembu lakho lakunikeza umsebenzi omkhulu, wokuthi ubhekelele umnotho kuzo zonke izakhamizi zalelizwe.

Izakhamizi zalelizwe-ke ikakhulukazi lezi ezisemakhaya njengoba nami ngiyindoda yakwaNongoma. Laphaya KwaNongoma impela ubuphofu bumi ngenhla kunjalo nje kwavala nezimayini ezinjengoHlobani nako Coronation. Kofuneka ukuthi uMhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe, ake ayibheke yonke leyondaba ukuthi kulezikhungo ezikhona kungezame kuvuleke ukuze sikwazi ukuba impilo yethu yasemakhaya ibengengconywana.

Ngiyazi ukuthi umsebenzi obhekene nawo ubhekene nezwe lonke, kodwa angeke neze ngakukhohlwa ukukhulumela isizwe sikababomkhulu iKwaZulu-Natali. Kufuneka ubhekisise lezindawo ezisemakhaya ukuthi kungenziwa njani ukuze kuphucuzeke, ngoba ubandlululo lwalumi ngenhla lubashaya abantu bakithi zinkalo zonke sigijima sohlala eThekwini.

Mhlawumbe ngaleyondlela singeze saya eThekwini naseGoli futhi imijondolo iyophela kulezi zindawo uma uNgqongqoshe noMnyango wakhe bengakwazi ukusibhekelela noma bekwazi ukuqeqesha labantu basemakhaya ukuze bekwazi ukuzisiza ngalezi zikhungo ezikhona ngoba lezi zikhungo zicosha imali eningi kakhulu kuhulumeni okufuneka ngabe isiza abantu.

Bengicela Ngqongqoshe, kusabiwomali sakho sonyaka njengoba umusha, ufake izicathulo ezintsha, ukahle unomama naye ufake izicathulo ezintsha useshilo. Ngocela mam ungagcini ngokwenza eMaritzburg lapho sasiqotshwa khona ngobandlululo. Wohambela emakhaya eNkandla, KwaNongoma, eMahlabathini eMashonangashoni uyobona khona izindawo zasemakhaya ukuthi zinjani lezindawo okuthiwa izilali ngokwase Mpumalanga Koloni. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)

[Prince M M M ZULU: Chairperson, thank you for the opportunity that you have given me. Hon Minister, I would like to say that your political party gave you a big task of taking care of the economy of this country.

The citizens of this country, especially those who are in the rural areas like KwaNongoma, where I come from, are poverty-stricken , and what makes matters worse is that the mines like Hlobani and Coronation have closed down. The hon Minister must revisit this issue and check if the existing facilities can be reopened so that our lives in the rural areas can improve.

I know that you are catering for the whole country, but I will never forget to speak on behalf of the people of my ancestral land, KwaZulu-Natal. You must focus more on the rural areas and look at means of developing these areas. Apartheid caused a lot of harm to our people in all the regions, which resulted in them flocking to the urban areas.

There will be no need for us to flock to the urban areas, and shanty towns will be a thing of the past if the Minister and his department can cater for us, or train people in the rural areas so that they can fend for themselves through these existing facilities. These facilities take a big chunk from the government’s budget which should be used to help people.

I appeal to you, Minister, to utilise your budget allocation for this new fiscal year to make a significant change, just like Madam has said. Madam, you should not only concentrate on Pietermaritzburg where we were brutally killed during the apartheid era. You should visit the rural areas like Nkandla, KwaNongoma, Mahlabathini at Mashonangashoni so that you can see the condition of the rural areas. Thank you. [Applause.]]

Mr B A MNGUNI: Thank you, Chairperson. I find myself being a common denominator among the three Ministers and the Deputy. The hon Rob Davies was my chairperson before he was appointed the Deputy Minister of Trade Industry. I share the economics cluster with hon Ntuli and hon Tobias is my homegirl.

Apparently, hon Sinclair is confused and can no longer cope with the confusion he is causing himself by moving from one party to the other, that is, from the NP to the ANC and to Cope. He forgets that they are pushing for trade liberation and deregulation of capital markets which is a free market today. We are in this economic conundrum crisis in the world. So, you have to relook at your policies.

The global economic downturn that we are facing today has a very negative impact on our fiscus. The Minister of Finance has reported that we are likely to lose R60 billion. We will be forced to borrow from the capital markets, which is not a good idea. We will be burdening our future generations with debt.

However, Programme 7 of Trade and Investment is trying to make sure that we promote our trade internationally and locally in order to be able to create jobs. This programme aims at creating 52 000 jobs within the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period. However, we would like to know if those are quality jobs and how long they are going to last.

Within the MTEF period, we have been informed that 61% of the budget is spent on incentives. There is a law of diminishing returns in economics and I would like to know from the Minister, of all these incentives, how many are working for us and how many are not? What is the long-term strategic view to turn around the strategy in order for us to create more jobs and improve our economy?

It is, however, pleasing to see that the budget for Trade and Industry, over the MTEF period, is increasing in line with the economic downturn because we need to be prepared for the worst, as the economists say the worst is still coming. We, therefore, need to be prepared for the worst economic downturn as our economy needs to tag along, so to say.

As we move towards the developmental state, development finance institutions have been found to help only 5% of our population, according to Statistics SA. The question is, if development finance institutions help only 5% of our people, 75% are going to loan sharks and the remaining percentage are being helped by commercial banks, what is the role of development finance institutions? That is the information which was provided to the finance committee a year ago by Statistics SA.

As we move towards the developmental state, we need skills as they are central to implementing policies that will enable people to get jobs and improve their lives. The DA says that we are unable to implement skills, forgetting that we are in this conundrum of poor skills, of uneducated people, because of policies they were following as the NP for 40 years.

Remember that a policy takes time before it makes an impact on society. You might implement a policy today, but the results or the output of that policy may only be seen 10 to 15 years down the line. I, therefore, would like to warn the DA that each time they say there is a shortage of skills and the democratic government is not working, they must not forget that they are the main contributors towards the skills shortage in the country.

I want to bring to the attention of the Minister that down in the Free State along the Mohokare River, along the Lesotho River, there is a project that has the potential of creating 300 permanent jobs and 200 seasonal jobs. There is capital there, the plant is there, the organic farm is there; however, the problem is marketing.

The project was stopped more than six years ago because the organic market was still being developed overseas and it was too small in South Africa. How can the department market such products or open organic farming like the one in the community around Ladybrand? They have all the capital. All that is needed is for the market to open.

The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Chairperson, I think most of the contributions were quite serious in the debate. Unfortunately, I don’t think we would be able to respond to all of them in detail. What I will give is an undertaking that we will look through the Hansard when we get it. We will make an opportunity to try to respond to all of them in detail.

I just want to try to respond quite quickly to a number of them. Firstly, Chairperson Gamede was quite correct when he said that ultimately we are going to be judged by what we contributed to job creation. I think what is important about the mandate of the current administration is that job creation is not some incidental outcome from other goals, but it is actually the fundamental rights at the heart of this.

The seriousness of the challenge that faces us is that we are trying to do this in the midst of a very serious global crisis. Otherwise, I think some of our successes would have to be measured in terms of how we could work to save jobs.

On a lot of things that people spoke about, for example, effectiveness of programmes and things like that, I want to say that what we have in place is the policy frameworks, both the industrial policy and the enterprise development. Broadly speaking, we do have the frameworks. The challenge now is to implement them more effectively.

I have been saying that for both of them, there are three C’s in some of our challenges. The first one is cadre development. We are going to have to find more people in this country who are going to be recruited into our department and other departments in the economic cluster, who can provide the skills and services that we need. We have been doing quite a lot of work in the last few weeks, recruiting some people into some key positions.

The point is we actually have to be much more active in training people. I have recently appointed a part-time advisor and his first task is to start to liaise with universities about how we can develop a series of courses and programmes so that we can train people for key positions.

The second C is consultation. We need to have much more continuous consultations with economic actors. The third one is co-ordination. It is co-ordination between different agencies that report to the Department of Trade and Industry and the different arms of national government. In my speech I was trying to say that it is between the spheres of government. I think that this House will be interested in those fundamental challenges.

Our approach in trying to resolve the threat of deindustrialisation and job losses is shaped by the national framework agreement, as the hon Chen said. The Industrial Development Corporation has identified that it had some R6 billion available over two years to support firms in distress. It is not just a question of providing funding, but it is also a question of putting that against programmes that are actually going to make some turnaround a real possibility and also against some commitments around job retention. That is what we are working on. In some sectors, we are very close to reaching agreements which would be quite significant.

The next industrial policy action plan is due to come out in January. We are looking for a higher impact one than the previous one. In the meantime, we are doing some work. We are broadening the automotive development programme to include heavy and commercial vehicles. We have been working energetically to try to make sure that we achieve more local production from the infrastructure programme, which is the main countercyclical response.

If there are cases where people have applied to our agencies and have been given a run-around for 18 months, that is unacceptable. It would be very useful if Members of Parliament in this House and in the other House would give us those details when they happen so that we could follow them up. My motto in terms of trying to make sure that we work better is continuous improvement. I don’t think there is a magic bullet or a form of restructuring that is going to deliver. What we actually need to do is to continuously improve our ability to deliver on the programmes which we already have in place.

The position in the chief operator office is still vacant and the advert is still out for that post. That is a critical post which we would like to fill very soon. A number of members have asked about the division of labour between ourselves and Economic Development. I would like to say that that hasn’t been finalised yet, but Economic Development can play a role in policy development co-ordination. I alluded to that in my speech — that even across the spheres of government there would be some functions transferred to them in the toolbox. What there would not be is some kind of serious dismemberment of the Department of Trade and Industry.

We are working very closely with the Department of Economic Development. In fact, the debates and discussions that we are having on our side are to try and strengthen them in their role, because I see it as quite critical.

In terms of the incentives, hon Mnguni, I think the picture is that I would argue that without those incentives we wouldn’t have achieved what we had achieved. But can they work better? Clearly so! Are there some that perhaps haven’t achieved what they should have achieved? Very likely. That is also part of the continuous improvement.

I said that most of the contributions were actually serious, and we want to reply to them seriously, but there was one exception. Let me just respond to that by starting off with a quote from the world famous great economist, John Maynard Keynes. He was writing in the age when there wasn’t such gender sensitivity He said that practical men, who imagined that they are under no intellectual influences, are usually the slave of some defunct economist.

I would like to just leave it to the hon Mr Sinclair to work out which defunct economist he is a slave of. I just want to say to him that there is no serious government that is trying to grapple with the real, serious challenges of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.

There is no example anywhere in economic history where a country has shifted from an economic regime characterised by diminishing returns and set itself on a growth path characterised by increasing returns and that it has done so on the basis of the crude ideological clap-trap that he regaled us with this afternoon. I am sorry; that was not a serious contribution and I can’t give him a serious answer. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 5 — Public Works:

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Let me take this opportunity to welcome the Minister of Public Works, the hon Doidge, and in the same breath then to request the Minister to open the debate.

The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Chairperson, let me say good evening to the House. It’s been a long day for the NCOP, so we are not going to keep you too long. Hon MECs that are here, members of the NCOP, the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa enjoins all of us to work together to —

Heal the divisions of the past and establish a society based on democratic values, social justice and fundamental human rights …

As the current global economic downturn continues to grind, large numbers of our people find themselves without work, without an income and with their human dignity and self-worth beginning to erode. Ordinary men and women find it extremely difficult to provide for their households, yet the Constitution calls upon us to —

Improve the quality of life of all citizens and free the potential of each person.

Our focus is to create work opportunities that are labour intensive and with a high multiplier effect on poverty reduction. We seek to contribute to halving poverty by 2014. However, this we cannot do alone. We need to work together and better to do more with all spheres of government and other social partners.

We have to eradicate poverty, fight unemployment and deliver on ensuring a more inclusive growth path. Under our collective stewardship, we must further refine our strategies to cushion our people from the effects of the current global economic downturn. Ours, hon members, is to traverse these difficult times with total commitment and a clear sense of shared destiny.

For us to succeed, we need to tap into our diverse collective wisdom and rely on our human spirit of conquering, despite the odds. We need a more united and cohesive nation, well positioned to seize the opportunities that will arise when the global economy enters an upswing.

These are not ordinary times and they require extraordinary measures. It cannot be business as usual. As a result, we are adopting a paradigm that focuses on the following: ensuring an efficient client service to all organs of state; reduction in turnaround time and service provision, and improved productivity and cost-efficiency. Our objective is to position public works as a catalyst for a more inclusive growth and development agenda. We have put mechanisms in place to ensure an effective interface and exchange of ideas with the public through the Talk to Minister Initiative.

During the elections and through our manifesto, which now constitutes our electoral mandate, we said that unemployment is unacceptably high among our people, especially amongst African women, rural persons and the youth.

We further said:

Inequality has persisted and increased in our society … The rural areas remain divided between well-developed commercial farming areas, peri- urbarn and impoverished communal areas. The benefits of economic growth have not been … equitably shared.

We need a paradigm shift to bring about a sense of urgency in service delivery and a more co-ordinated approach to interventions. A fundamental pillar of this new sense of urgency is in service delivery and is effective through co-operation between all spheres of government and social partners. At Public Works, we are in the process of engaging all provincial public works departments and MECs in order to identify opportunities for programme collaboration, especially on the Expanded Public Works Programme. Strengthening of the Minmec needs to be undertaken with speed in order to meet the demands of a massification of the Expanded Public Works Programme, as articulated through the electoral mandate.

Whilst our spheres of government are distinctive, interdependent and interrelated, the Constitution enjoins all of us to secure the wellbeing of the people of the Republic. This requires a high level of co-operation and a common desire to lift our people from the scourge of poverty, unemployment, crime and marginalisation. This is our historic mission, a mission we must fulfil; we dare not fail.

According to the Constitution, this House represents provincial interests in the national sphere of government. In addition to the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, allocations, most of the funds are needed to reach our policy objectives to the provincial and local spheres. For example, for this financial year alone, the maintenance and repairs allocation for municipalities amounts to roughly R11 billion. The maintenance of infrastructure allocation for provinces amounts to roughly R6,5 billion. The national allocation for maintenance of infrastructure amounts to R1,9 billion.

These figures illustrate that the larger allocation from the budget goes to provinces and municipalities. Therefore, the NCOP must ensure proper oversight over where these allocations improve the lives of the people. We have entered a phase where accountability is a critical element of all our endeavours, where we have to account for our actions or nonactions. I invite the NCOP to exercise its oversight role over this department with rigour and constructively.

The creation of decent work opportunities will be the primary focus of all our programmes. In our fight against unemployment and poverty we will create 500 000 jobs before the end of December 2009. This will be a solid foundation for reaching the target of four and a half million labour- intensive jobs over the electoral mandate period. We will discharge this responsibility fully conscious that ours is about the restoration of human dignity, comfort and ensuring a sense of economic liberation for the majority of South Africans. In the words of the Freedom Charter -

… we pledge ourselves to strive together, sparing neither strength nor courage…

… until we achieve a more inclusive growth, shared development and a reduction in inequality. This requires a collective approach that insists on putting people first in service delivery.

The department is very serious about reaching the policy objectives of this mandated period. It has started the process of rearranging itself so that it can improve its services to all organs of state and turnaround time in service provision. To improve productivity and cost-efficiency, our turnaround strategy wants to ensure that we are more responsive to the needs of this developmental state. We invite this House and it’s select committee to do rigorous oversight over how we give effect to the mandate assigned to us. Together we will do more for a better future for our people. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M P SIBANDE: Ngiyabonga Sihlalo, ngiyacabanga ukuthi ngizotshontsha lemizuzwana esele. [Thank you, Chairperson; I think I will only steal the remaining minutes.]

Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon Members of the Executive Council, MECs, hon members, and ladies and gentlemen …

… ngingachithi isikhathi Ngqongqoshe, siyasesekela isabiwomali. [… without wasting time, hon Minister, we support this Budget Vote.]

I want to say something, which you will have to think about. The winner is always part of the answer; and the loser is always part of the problem. The winner always has a programme; and the loser always has an excuse. The winner says, “Let me do it for you”; and the loser says, “That’s not my job”. The winner sees an answer for every problem and the loser sees a problem for every answer. The winner says, “It may be difficult, but it’s possible”; and the loser says, “It may be possible, but it’s too difficult”.

Thina abakwaKhongolose siyazibophezela ukuthi sizoqhubeka nendima yokuguqula, nokuletha impilo engcono, nokuxosha indlala, kanye nokuvula amathuba emisebenzi yabantu bakulengabadi yakithi.

SinguKhongolose kanye nombimbi lwayo siyimbumba, siyohlala sinje singuKhongolose futhi asinamona, asinanzondo futhi siyamdumisa uKhongolse.[Ihlombe.] Asifekethisi ngombutho wethu ngoba sikholelwa ekutheni uma sisebenza ndawonye singenza okuningi, kuyoze kuyovalwa. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[We, as the ANC, are committed to continue with our role to bring about change in order to ensure a better life for all, fight hunger and create new job opportunities for the people of our country.

The ANC and its alliance are united, and we will stay like this; we are not jealous of anyone, we do not hate anyone, and we will always hail the ANC. [Applause.] We are not compromising our movement because we believe that if we work together we can, forever, do more.]

I want, in the same breath, to hail the wise action taken by our Cabinet of removing the sector education and training authorities, Setas, from the Department of Labour and placing them directly under the Department of Education. It was saddening to note and experience the frustration of our youth who have acquired the necessary theory, and because of certain challenges, cannot be challenged into practical skills training. I hope such challenges will not be experienced in the Department of Education.

Our manifesto has put in place large-scale creation of decent work opportunities and the agenda of the ANC-led government to deal with the triple challenge of unemployment and equity. Change in our context, now, means the empowerment of the previously disadvantaged and dispossessed community, especially those in rural areas. Empowerment in liberation is taken to the next level; it is expanding people’s horizons, opportunities, and taking off the chains of deprivation, self-doubt and self-denigration and degradation. People need to be empowered and become co-creators of their own wealth.

We appreciate the expansionist initiative you have taken in driving the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, which resulted in the introduction of its second phase, the involvement and close monitoring of the other departments, and also the lateral and the horizontal approaches regarding the other spheres of government. We commend the Independent Development Trust, IDT, on its responsibilities and being in charge of focusing on women and youth empowerment as well as its recent responsibility in relation to the EPWP.

Regarding the Council for the Built Environment, CBE, I believe the department and this council were in the process of addressing the identified legislative gaps in the built environment which, amongst other things, were delaying transformation of the built environment professionals, which process fell by the wayside.

What measures are being taken now to ensure that the gaps identified are being dealt with and that transformation of the built environment professionals is not necessarily being delayed or hampered? Secondly, does the funding of the professional council address the problems of relationship in this entity? Thirdly, are those councils being audited, thus bringing an element of accountability and transparency? Fourthly, registration of professionals has been a challenge. Is the problem being addressed as well as if these councils are budgeting jointly with the CBE?

Regarding the Construction Industry Development Board, CIDB, we recommended the following. There is a need to decentralise the CIDB offices in order to make sure that they are accessible even to the people in the rural areas; the entity needs transformation that will also allow the previously disadvantaged people to be included; the CIDB needs upgrading or a clear plan to uplift the Human Development Index, HDI, so that they can also reach the standards of Group Five.

We must acknowledge the role played by the Department of Public Works in pursuing the African agenda by building South African embassies in many countries in Africa, which has contributed to job opportunities for our country, as well as for the citizens of the neighbouring countries in Africa.

Sihlalo, ngivumele ngifake lokhu ngefasitela. Mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe eBethal eMzinoni izakhamuzi zicela ukuthi wedlulise isicelo sabo kumlingani wakho obhekene nalowo Mnyango ukuthi makafake igalelo ngesikhalo sikagesi onqamuka zinsuku zonke ohlangothini oluhlala abantu abamnyama okwaqala ngaphambi kwa1994 ingakabibikho ngisho ukusindwa kukagesi. Siyacela Ngqongqoshe sengathi ungalekelela masinyane. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Chairperson, allow me to smuggle in the following issue: Hon Minister, the residents of Bethal in Mzinoni are asking that you forward their request to your counterpart who is responsible for that department, and that is that he must do something about the electricity that is constantly tripping only in the townshipS. This has been happening since before 1994 when no overloading was taking place. We are pleading with you, hon Minister, to speedily deal with our request for help.]

Hon members, we must, now, deliver on our five-year contract. We are under orders to create four million jobs through the EPWP by 2014 and half a million by December this year, 2009.

Ngqongqoshe okunye engizokucela ngiyazi-ke njengoba kujwayelekile ukuthi kulamaqembu lawa amanye akhona sicela baqondisise ukuthi sizoya kulisese. Uma siya kulisese akusho ukuthi uKhongolose kuphela okumele afike ebantwini nabo bayahola njengathi banamahhovisi lena emakhaya abavela kuwona kufuneka nabo bafundise abantu NgoMnyango Wezemisebenzi Yomphakathi nokuthi usebenza kanjani. Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[One other thing that I want to request, hon Minister, is that since we will be in recess, as is always the case, I want these other parties that are here to know that it is not only the ANC which must go to the people during recess, but they must also go because they are paid just like us and they too have constituency offices where they come from and they need to teach people about the Department of Public Works and how it works. Thank you.]

Mr H B GROENEWALD: Thank you, Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members of the NCOP and guests. The Department of Public Works has the opportunity to create thousands of jobs in South Africa for jobless people. It is time to translate policies into programmes of action so that the infrastructure of South Africa is properly developed and people’s lives are further improved.

In the state of the nation address, hon President Jacob Zuma again made promises of 500 000 jobs to the jobless citizens of South Africa. That is wonderful news for every South African and also for the DA. The DA wants to see that these jobs become sustainable and are not jobs that last for three to six months. These must also be jobs of an open-opportunity society, which means that everyone in South Africa will get a job if everyone had the opportunity to work for themselves and to the benefit of his or her family and our country.

Die DA is nie bereid om, soos die ANC die afgelope 15 jaar gedoen het, leë beloftes te maak aan hulle kiesers en mede-landgenote nie: beloftes van behuising vir elke gesin, as ons gaan kyk na die strukture waarin duisende mense steeds bly; beloftes van beter en opgedateerde skole, meer onderwysers — ons kan maar gaan kyk hoeveel skole daar is wat nog van klei en modder gebou is en waar daar nog kinders onder die bome skoolgaan; beloftes van mediese dienste, hospitale en klinieke; beloftes van ‘n beter polisiemag, meer gevangenisse, meer fasiliteite om ons pligte beter uit te voer; beloftes van ‘n meer vaartbelynde Departement van Openbare Werke. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The DA is not prepared, unlike the ANC over the past 15 years, to make empty promises to their voters and fellow-citizens: Promises of houses for every family — just look at the structures in which thousands of people still have to live; promises of better and modernised schools and more teachers — just look at how many schools are still built from clay and mud and where children have to sit under trees to be taught; promises of medical services, hospitals and clinics; promises of a better police force and the building of more prisons, more facilities to improve our service delivery; and promises of a more streamlined Department of Public Works.]

Hon Chairperson, it is the responsibility of the Department of Public Works to see to it that the people of South Africa have clean water, proper sanitation in their houses, better school buildings, especially in the rural areas of the country, and better hospitals and clinics all over South Africa.

Government buildings are falling apart in many places. It looks as if the Department of Public Works has lost control over the maintenance of these governmental properties. Many of these buildings have been built within the past three to five years. The DA wants to know where were aspects such as quality control, professional input and skilled people when these buildings were built. We cannot afford this kind of poor quality buildings and we must always remember that the department is working with taxpayers’ money. With poor quality of work we move backward, and not forward.

Agb Voorsitter, dit is presies wat die President in sy staatsrede gesê het, en dit weergalm soos ‘n refrein deur die department soos elke spreker en ook Minister daarna verwys. Ek haal aan:

Laat ons mekaar se hande vat...

En ek wil dit graag weer sê, want die President het dit in sy openingsrede gesê:

Laat ons mekaar se hande vat, en saam oplossings vind in die gees van ‘n Suid-Afrikaanse gemeenskap. Die tyd het gekom om harder te werk.

En dit geld vir elkeen van ons wat ook in hierdie Huis sit —

Ons regering gaan vorentoe kyk, nie agtertoe nie!

Met die nodige dissipline in elke departement sal die droom van die agb President dalk verwesentlik word. Die ANC het homself verbind om hierdie doelwitte te bereik en ons moet kyk of dit volhoubaar gaan wees. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Hon Chairperson, this is precisely what the President said in his state of the nation address and it resounds like a chorus throughout the department, as every speaker and Minister is also referring to it. I quote:

Let us take one another’s hands ...

And I would like to repeat that, as the President said those words in his state of the nation address:

Let us take one another’s hands, and together find solutions in the
spirit of a South African community. The time has come to work harder.

And that applies to all of us who are sitting in this House –

Our government is going to look forward, not backward.

With the necessary discipline in each department the dream of the hon President will perhaps be realised. The ANC committed itself to achieve these targets and we will have to see whether it will be sustainable.]

We want to see the department starting to train people in their thousands in every province in South Africa. Give them the necessary training to become specialists in their jobs. Chairperson, a serious investigation must take place into the way this department handles the tender processes, how different entities in the department manage their budgets, underspending of budgets — and this is taxpayers’ money — fraud and corruption, and the employment of families and friends in specialised posts.

The DA wants to ask the hon Minister to get control mechanisms in place to work together with all South Africans to build cohesive, caring and sustainable communities.

The positive direction the Department of Public Works has taken by uplifting people, especially those in the rural areas who are very poor, is much supported by the DA. The job opportunities provided by the EPWP will help a lot of people who are in desperate need to look after themselves in the future. The life and technical skills training will also help people to run their own businesses, earn an income and support their families.

We will take the ANC on and ensure that as the ruling party, they are responsible for the promises they made to fight corruption in the public services. The President said government had a role to play in the war against crime. To ensure delivery, government —

… will hold Cabinet Ministers accountable through performance instruments, using established targets and output measures …

Furthermore, the President claims that he will work well with opposition parties in Parliament … Thank you. [Time expired.]

Mr Z MLENZANA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, hon members, good evening. Let me start by congratulating you, hon Minister, on your appointment to this busy position. We, as Cope, pledge our unwavering support to you and your team.

Cope supports the fact that a bigger portion of the budget for the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, must go to municipalities, but the department should monitor and remain accountable for the quality of work versus the expenditure. We also call for the issue of incentives to better performing municipalities.

This department should link up with client departments, provinces and municipalities to address job creation. You, Minister, please, should also as a matter of urgency finalise the reclaiming of the mandate of this department, thus ensuring improved co-ordination with client departments regarding decentralised and centralised functions. This will make us, as Cope, see Public Works running with the School Building Programme, particularly with regard to the eradication of mud schools in rural areas, construction of rural access roads, etc. All this should be in partnership with the relevant departments.

Before I forget, the Minister should please remember that there are three schools which are named after traditional leaders, namely Chief Moshoeshoe in Matatiele, Chief Daluhlanga kaJojo in Mount Ayliff and Chief Makaula in Mount Frere. We have a commitment across the political divide in the Eastern Cape that these schools should be transformed into model schools.

By the way, the MEC for Education, hon Qwase, was saying yesterday that they have included other regions and now there are ten schools in this programme.

In conclusion, Chairperson, this department is charged with the responsibility of major infrastructure like the border posts and others. It therefore cannot continue with its current high vacancy rate if it has to meet its mandate.

Cope has declared that we are a patriotic opposition party. Hence, we once more pledge full support to this department.

Xa kufuneka sincome, siza kuncoma. Xa kufuneka sigxeke, siza kugxeka (but constructively). Xa kufuneka sibuze, siza kubuza. [When we have to sing praises, we will sing praises. When we have to criticise, we will criticise, but constructively. When we have to question, we will question.]

I thank you. [Applause.] Ms L MABIJA: Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputies present here, hon MECs, hon members, senior government officials, invited guests …

… ḽo kovhela. Zwine nda khou ṱoḓa u amba zwone ndi zwauri … [… evening. What I want to say is that …]

… the main policy priorities of the Department of Public Works are clearly set out in this year’s state of the nation address and also meticulously illustrated in the department’s strategic plan.

Amongst the priorities of the department and also outlined in the target and directive given by our President, Comrade Jacob Zuma, is the creation of 500 000 jobs by the end of this year.

Hon Minister, as the precursor to my debate on this, I want to call upon the Department of Public Works as a lead department in the creation of job opportunities within the government to call a meeting of all government departments, which will result in them committing themselves financially and programme wise so that their inputs are likely to be to the targeted 500 000 jobs by the end of the year, and also to the five-year target of 4 million jobs by 2014.

In Polokwane we resolved that we should be steadfast in our commitment of creating decent work opportunities for our people whilst, at the same time, we design and adopt economic policies that support and sustain growth, job creation and poverty eradication on a sustainable basis.

It is because of the assertions alluded to earliar that the Department of Public Works should be proactive in its interaction with provincial governments and departments to ensure that the set targets, which are very low according to my assessment, are achieved beyond any doubt.

Public Works is about people at work for shared growth. Decent work is the foundation of the fight against poverty and inequality, and therefore its promotion should be the cornerstone of all our efforts. The Freedom Charter contends that to work is a right, and not a privilege, which means that according to this blueprint of our freedom, unemployment is an infringement of the right of the citizens to decent work.

This imperative for the creation of decent employment contends that our central goal for reconstruction and development is to create a strong, dynamic and balanced economy which will eliminate poverty, low wages and extreme inequalities in wages and wealth generated by the apartheid system.

The National Youth Service Programme, initiated in 2003, is meant to address high levels of youth unemployment by creating opportunities for voluntary services and skills development for young people.

The programme supports communities through national development, while simultaneously providing an opportunity for young people to access opportunities for skills development, employment and income generation.

Hon Minister, it is again in line with the state of the nation directive stating that the jobs created for new entrants into the job market should be quality work opportunities.

We hope that the Department of Public Works will design programmes to benefit the youth, women and disabled and also be in line with the directives of the state of the nation as alluded to above.

Concerning the budget allocated to the department for 2009-10, I would like to emphasise the undesirable habit of our government departments of not spending all their annual allocations resulting in rollovers and lack of delivery of budgeted services to our people.

Such habits are at times caused by lack of proper planning and lack of proactivity of our officials and results in tarnishing the name of the ANC- led government. Be that as it may, we have confidence in our Minister of Public Works, Minister Doidge, that if such habits exist in this department, they will immediately be uprooted to ensure that we all work together with similarly minded people to achieve and do more for the people of this country.

Bivhili iri: A sa shumi na u ḽa a songo ḽa. Ya dovha ya ri mubva ndi iwe. Hezwi zwoṱhe zwi amba uri vhashumeli vhoṱhe vha muvhuso, vho rapoḽitiki na lushaka lwoṱhe, nga iṅwe nḓila vhadzulapo vha fhano Afurika Tshipembe roṱhe ri khou tea u shumisana u itela uri ri kone u wana vhutshilo ha khwiṋe ngauri a zwi thusi tshithu uri ri vhadzulapo vha fhano ri ambe zwauri arali nda sa ḽa ndi ḓo shela mavu. Ni tshi shela mavu ni khou ḓishelela na inwi muṋe. Arali ni tshi shela mulimo ni tshi khou itela uri zwithu zwa ANC zwi songo tshimbila nga ngona, ni khou ḓithuntsha mulenzhe inwi muṋe.

Zwa khwiṋe ndi zwauri arali ni sa koni u vha kunda, ivhani vhathihi navho, ni shumisane u itela uri vhutshilo ha vhathu vha fhano Afurika Tshipembe kana vharema, vhatshena, kana vha muvhala ufhio na ufhio, ngauri ndi zwa ndeme uri roṱhe ri vhe na vhutshilo ha khwiṋe.

Zwoṱhe hezwi ndi khou zwi amba ndi na fulufhelo ḽa uri Vho Minisiṱa, Vho Doidge, vha khou ya u lwa heyi nndwa vha i kunda ngauri vho no ḓi ri sumbedza sa komiti yo khetheaho ine ra vha khayo, zwauri vha muthu o ḓiimiselaho.

Tshe vha swika fhano lwa tshifhinga tsha vhege tharu fhedzi, ndi lwa vhuraru ri tshi dzula fhasi navho ra kovhekana mihumbulo nga ha mafhungo a Mishumo ya Tshitshavha. Kha vha khwaṱhise. Ndo livhuwa. [U vhanda zwanḓa.] (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraphs follows.)

[The Bible says: He who does not work should not even eat. It further says that a lazy person is you. This means that all government employees, politicians and the entire nation, in other words all South African citizens, should work together so that we can get a better life, because it does not help us as citizens to say that if I do not get a share, I shall spoil it. If you spoil it, you are spoiling it for yourself as well. If you do things to sabotage the ANC initiatives, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

The best thing to do is, if you can’t beat them, join them and work together to make a better life for South Africans or blacks, whites or coloureds, because it is better for us to have a better life.

I am saying this hoping that the Minister, Mr Doidge, is determined to fight for this and win, as he had already shown us in the committee of which we are members.

Since he became a Minister three weeks ago, we have sat down thrice to share ideas on matters concerning Public Works. Keep up the good work. I thank you. [Applause.]]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members of executive councils, MECs, hon members of the NCOP, good evening. Please accept my sincere apologies. Today I am not feeling very well. My lack of energy does not mean that we will drag our feet as we deliver on the mandate.

I have decided to concentrate on three areas, adding to what the Minister has already said — that we are gearing ourselves to make Public Works a real business, to make a profit and to be a better custodian of the state’s immovable assets.

But, I guess, having listened to all the members this evening, I am going to make a few changes, and also pick up on a few points. I’ll focus on the most vulnerable as I personally believe that if Public Works could change and touch their lives, this country would become a better country. I’ll start with one of my very favourite quotes written in the Integrated National Disability Strategy foreword by the former President of the Republic of South Africa, hon Thabo Mbeki, when he said:

Among the yardsticks by which to measure a society’s respect for human rights, to evaluate the level of its maturity and its generosity of spirit, is by looking at the status that it accords to those members of society who are most vulnerable, the disabled people, senior citizens, and its children.

As Public Works, we may neither be Social Development nor the Ministry of Women, Youth, Children and People with Disabilities, but we are in a better place for changing the lives of these categories of people through ensuring access, provision of required job opportunities and creation of an environment that represents the needs of these sectors.

There are a number of challenges that we would have to deal with, and I am hoping, as the Minister has humbly requested already, that the provinces will assist us in that manner. One of the areas that we need to get right is our asset management system, in totality, as hon Groenewald was complaining a lot about that. We shall work towards establishing a consolidated asset management system without the exclusion of the provinces, as our preliminary findings showed that provinces are, at the moment, utilising different systems.

Public Works will, at the national level, move towards introducing and establishing a consolidated information and communications technologies, ICT, system that will enable us to respond to all the different assets so that hon members no longer say that they don’t know where the assets are. Assets are getting dilapidated so we want to have one consolidated register to be able to know who owns what, where it is, and who is responsible for its maintenance. That is a commitment we are willing to make. In 2012, we will be halfway there. We are hoping that provinces will be ready to join us. With the commitment and hard work of the select committee, we will get there faster.

With regard to issues of our strategic priorities — the other member already spoke about issues of young people — it is important to mention that we are geared up for our Priority Area Number 4. We are going to partner with tertiary institutions, especially those for disadvantaged young black people, to transform the built environment to be conducive and to respond to the needs of young people; also, to enable us to reduce the shortage of skills in that sector.

As a responsive department, we are committed to ensure that by 3 December, which is the International Day of Persons with Disabilities, we shall have provided the necessary guidelines on what informs the buildings we are making accessible, given the limited resources we have, so that provinces are able to tap into those guidelines and prioritise which buildings to make accessible.

We will also work towards guidelines for the restructuring of the built environment professions. As much as we’ve got the best regulations, for some reason our engineers, quantity surveyors and architects continue to produce inaccessible buildings which we will have to pick up and make accessible at another cost. Somehow, we need to make sure that that does not happen. We must ensure that they are able to comply with the existing building regulations.

We need to empower the Council for the Built Environment, CBE, to be in a position to assist professionals to respect the accessible legislations, as we are committed to the principle that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, including the disabled, who must have access to those buildings that are costing us money. Every time they produce them, we have to go back and make them accessible.

We are committed to change the lives of children. We are fully aware that we have made a commitment with regard to early childhood development, bearing in mind that in rural areas there are no early childhood development, ECD, centres. Working together with the Department of Social Development, we are going to make ECDs centres accessible so that for rural children it is not just a distant dream or a “nice-to-have”, but a structure built in a safe environment that responds to the needs of children in terms of age appropriateness. That will be another way to ensure that we meet the third target of 500 000 jobs. [Interjections.] Yes, of course. They will be sustainable.

The Department of Public Works is committed to ensuring that the public works because we do work. We are committed to creating a department that will be responsive to the needs of the people. We shall utilise Public Works to give South Africa a face-lift and ensure that no one goes hungry with a department that could produce.

Let me thank the President for awarding me an opportunity as the first visually-impaired member of his Cabinet. This goes a long way to show that this country respects the human rights of all, and that it is a country that belongs to all who live in it. I also want to thank the ANC as the party that respects the rights of disabled people and believes that we also have the ability and the capacity to deliver the mandate that they have been given.

I also want to thank the Minister, the department and all the officials for all their support. I am looking forward to robust engagements with the select committee. I am grateful for the support from the departments. I also want to thank my team in the office that is always making it possible for me to function and discharge my duties with respect. I also thank my husband, who is always by my side, supporting me in all that I do, sometimes delaying his own dreams and aspirations. I also want to thank my children who, as a young parent, I raise with a remote control!

In conclusion, the implementation of the Construction Charter will be the key to the success of the many programmes I alluded to. The construction industry is one of the sectors not yet affected negatively by the global recession, but it is also a sector that has a high skills shortage and feels the high impact of HIV/Aids. As a result, we shall be investing a lot of time and energy in ensuring that we develop a very good programme. Working together, our contributions will prove to be invaluable to the processes of the creation of a truly people-centred society as we move towards a developmental state that we will all be proud of. [Applause.]

Ndi one mafhungo e nda vha ndo vha farela one. [This is the information I had for you.]

Ke a leboga. [Thank you.]

Mr M G E WILEY (Western Cape): Thank you, Mr Chairman; once again, I appreciate the opportunity. Minister, I do apologise for not having been in the House personally when you made your speech today. I did not realise that things were going to go quite so quickly. I also apologise on behalf of MEC Robin Carlisle who is not able to be here today. He has asked me to stand in his stead and I do so willingly.

I would like to say that you are very lucky to have a Deputy Minister who can speak so well when she is unwell; I’d hate to see how well she does when she is well!

I would like to pick up one or two points that she made, if I may, please, right from the outset. She is relying on the provinces to assist. You can be sure that the Western Cape government is going to play its full role as far as Public Works is concerned. I think that the MECs have a really good handle on what is going on, especially with regard to the EPWP. I think South Africa has a golden opportunity during this recessionary period to do similar projects to what Franklin Delano Roosevelt did during the Depression in 1932 in America.

She did mention something with regard to an asset management register. I am not quite sure whether I picked up correctly with regard to what the Deputy Minister meant in this regard. I am just a little bit concerned that having a consolidated asset management register might impinge upon the spheres of government-related and/or constitutional aspects. Be that as it may, it is a matter I would just like clarity on.

I think some of the hon members might need a lesson on South African national politics as far as the role of the NCOP is concerned. This Chamber is here for the provinces to demonstrate their concerns at provincial level. This is what I am doing.

As far as inaccessible buildings are concerned, I think that the Deputy Minister has raised a very pertinent point. One of the single biggest problems in South Africa at the moment is the inability — and most departments are having to give back massive amounts of money into Treasury — and the lack of middle management skills for project management.

And I am horrified if she says that as the client the government is commissioning buildings, but the architects and the engineers are delivering something other than what the client wants. And that can only be as a result of a lack of project management and middle management skills. So I think that also needs to be addressed.

The Public Works division is a critical component responsible for the management of government assets, including the construction, upgrading and maintenance of buildings and related infrastructure. The programme, however, has not been able to perform its functions with the required excellence, as a result of the previous regime’s lack of accountability and leadership at both administrative and political-executive level.

In this regard I would just like to quote from the Minister’s statement that appeared in the Cape Argus of Friday, 26 June:

More than R1,5 billion had been spent on consultants in the past three years in the Western Cape. The department’s poor record of school building was investigated and a report called for immediate disciplinary action against senior managers.

I think it goes hand in glove with the point that I made earlier with regard to project management.

It now faces serious budgetary constraints that will impede essential maintenance works on roads and government buildings. The Treasury has withheld R80 million from the Public Works maintenance budget for the current financial year. The current budget has allocated R642 million to Public Works, in addition to the funds budgeted under Health and Education, for meeting their needs.

The subprogramme support has grown from R87 million in the 2005-06 to R175 million in the 2009-10 financial year. Spending in this area will be subject to judicious review. On the other hand, Subprogramme 2 and 3, namely construction and maintenance, are R3 million less than they were in the 2005-06 financial year. This despite the fact that the physical condition of our roads and government buildings continue to deteriorate, whilst maintenance backlogs are rising at alarming rates.

The department has a mammoth task of meeting the target of roughly 112 000 full-time jobs for Phase 2 of the EPWP — that is for the Western Cape. In these recessionary times, the EPWP is an intervention that could improve the lives of many. The challenge, however, remains the vital issue of transferable skills, to enable beneficiaries of EPWP jobs to use the skills they have acquired working on EPWP projects to improve their lives beyond the completion of those projects — in other words, sustainability.

The department launched the Umsebenzi job portal two years ago to link jobseekers with potential employers by registering unemployed individuals and allowing employers to advertise vacancies on the site. Whilst the portal may have a real potential to contribute towards reducing unemployment in the province, until recently the last job posted on the site was in August 2008 — almost a year ago. We are gratified by the assurance in the House last week that the department has specific instructions to update the portal regularly, so that it becomes of great use to jobseekers.

The flagship training project, Learnership 1 000, does not reflect well on the department. It has been characterised by poor planning and execution, and is the subject of a forensic audit. The department can ill afford to underutilise resources designed to help reduce unemployment, especially during times where jobs are shed daily.

We welcome Minister Carlisle’s objective to ensure that the department operates openly and honestly. We believe that accountability and decisive leadership at both administrative and executive level will enable the department to manage the provincial property better, and pursue innovative ways of generating revenue to conduct essential maintenance and upgrading work.

Mr Chairman, I would like to hand the Minister and his department a bouquet. I was at Fort Wyngard today, which is part of the 2010 precinct, and all the role-players there could not have been more complimentary with regard to Public Works, as to how they work with great alacrity and efficiency.

Having said that, a bit of a brick though: In the Claremont area, I think it is, the police barracks had a fire 21 months ago in a flat and four garages. It was in the newspaper of yesterday, the Cape Argus, that still no repairs have been done.

According to the police, all necessary documentation and correspondence was handed to the Department of Public Works, which was responsible for the repairs and maintenance of the building. They gave us an indefinite response that the process was underway. I must ask, please, the police are under enough pressure as it is and this particular building is very much in the public eye. I would appreciate if you could assist in that.

Just one concluding remark, Minister, and that is that I come from the southern part of the Peninsula, where the largest navy on the continent exists. Many, many buildings are owned by the Department of Public Works and I ask that, in our fervour to forward the EPWP, we do not actually lose sight of the actual mandate of Public Works, and that is the maintenance of existing public buildings as well. Thank you.

UMntwana M M M ZULU: Mphathisihlalo, Mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe Ndlunkulu ngoba ngeke ngikubize ngoMama uZulu, ngizothi Ndlunkulu. Ngithi Mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe namalunga ahloniphekile aleNdlu umsebenzi onikwe wona esizweni sakithi wumsebenzi omkhulu, ukuba ubheke onke amafa kahulumeni noma impahla kahulumeni wezwe laseNingizimu Afrika.

Ngithi-ke Mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe ngesikhathi uma senikhipha umsebenzi wabantu abasakhela izindonga zezindlu, kofuneka nibhekisise-ke ukuthi laba abakhipha leyo misebenzi yokwakha izikole namahholo omphakathi ngoba uMnyango wakho ngokubambisana neminye iMinyango, lokhu okuthiwa ukuphatha ngokubambisana, kunikezwa abantu ngendlela okuyiyona yona kuze kuvuleke imisebenzi uMhlonisha uMongameli ayekhuluma ngayo ukuthi yenzeke. Bese kuba khona abantu abangabacwaningi bomhlaba okuzokwakhiwa kuwona, nalapho ngocela Mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe ukuba kube abantu bazo zonke izinhlanga abakhele leli lizwe abakwazi ukuthi bathole lawo mathuba bakwazi ukubheka izinto ukuthi zihamba kahle yini.

Bese kuba khona laba abaziwa ngokuthi abahloli bamabhilidi, ngiye ngikhathaze-ke Mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe ngezimali eziningi ezisuke zikhishwe uhulumeni wezwe, kutholakale ukuthi kwakhiwa isikole abahloli bamabhilidi namabantu abadweba amabhilidi bakuphasisile lokho ekugcineni uthole othayela eseqhephuka phezulu kubonakale ukuthi kuyinto engahambanga kahle. Ngibuye ngibonge lapha, iphini lakho uNdlunkulu uthe nizozibhekelela izitshudeni zethu emaNyuvesi ukuthi mhlawumbe nizithuthukisa kanjani noma nizisize njengoMnyango ukuthi zikwazi ukuqeqesheka, ukuthi zikwazi ukubhekana nokuthi kuphele ububha ezweni lakithi. Ngithi-ke ngiyakuhalalisela ezicathuleni ongene kuzona wena Mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe noNdlunkulu, ngiyacela ukuthi nifeze iphupho likaMongameli wezwe ukuthi kube khona imisebenzi ngokuhlanganyela kwayo yonke iMinyango ngoba ngeke kube uMnyango Wezemisebenzi Yomphakathi kuphela ongakha imisebenzi eyizi- 500 000. Masikhuluma iqiniso yiyona yonke iminyango ihlangene, zonke izinhlaka zikahulumeni zihlangene, yizona ezingakwazi ukwakha imisebenzi cishe ifike kuleso sibalo nakulelo phupho lokuqeda indlala ezweni lakithi. Ngiyabonga Sihlalo. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)

[Prince M M M ZULU: Chairperson, hon Minister, Madam the First Wife — I cannot address you as Mrs Zulu, rather as Madam the First Wife and hon members of this House, the work assigned to you of taking care of our government’s estates or assets is very huge.

Hon Minister, what I am saying is that when you award tenders to people who are building houses, you will have to make sure that those who award the tenders for building schools and community halls make proper decisions as to who are given those tenders in order to create the job opportunities that the hon President said should be created. Your department must work together with other departments to achieve what is referred to as co- operative governance. I once again want to urge the hon Minister to afford people from all races the opportunity to become surveyors so that they can monitor the process.

With regard to the building inspectors, hon Minister, I am concerned about the monies spent by the government of this country, and you find that after the school has been built and the building inspectors and the architects have approved it, the tiles break which shows that it was not a job well done. I would like to thank your Deputy, who said that as the department you will see to the development of our university students so that they can receive training to enable them to fight poverty in our country. Hon Minister and hon Deputy Minister, I would like to congratulate you on your position. I urge you to fulfil the dream of our President of creating jobs by getting all the departments to work together because the department of Public Works cannot create 500 000 job opportunities alone. To be honest, if all the departments and government structures work together we might create the estimated number of job opportunities and make this dream of eradicating poverty in our country come true. Chairperson, I thank you. [Applause.]]

Vho P RAMAGOMA (Limpopo): Mudzulatshidulo a ṱhonifheaho, Mufarisa Mudzulatshidulo wa Khoro ya Lushaka ya Mavunḓu, vhaimeleli vha mavunḓu, dzi MEC dzi re hone fhano, Minisiṱa na Mufarisi wawe wa Muhasho wa zwa Mishumo ya Tshitshavha, kha nṋe ndi khuliso na ṱhompho uri ndi fhiwe tshifhinga tsha u vhiga zwe muvhuso wa Limpopo wa zwi swikelela, khaedu dze wa ṱangana nadzo na pulane dza ṅwaha wa muvhalelano une ra vha khawo, une wa vha wa 2009-10. (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraph follows.)

[Mr P RAMAGOMA (Limpopo): Hon Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, representatives from the provinces, MECs present here, Minister and his Deputy of Public Works, to me it is an honour and I feel dignified to be given the opportunity to report back on what the Limpopo government has achieved, the challenges it was faced with and the plans for this fiscal year, 2009-10.]

We congratulate the Minister of Public Works on his unwavering commitment to leading and supporting the country in the rolling out of massive economic and social infrastructure.

We welcome the commitment of this government to investing over 6% of the GDP on infrastructure development. The Medium-Term Expenditure Framework budget of R787 billion for infrastructure development will go a long way to address the huge backlog which is a key binding constraint on economic development and social transformation.

The effective and efficient rolling out of this massive infrastructure programme will afford this country, and indeed Limpopo, an opportunity to build on the achievements of the past 15 years of the democratic government and accelerate the achievement of targets we have set for ourselves.

Limpopo has managed to reduce the huge backlogs relating to the provision of health, education, recreational facilities and other critical social and economic infrastructure. We have battled successfully to provide decent classrooms for children learning under trees. Villagers can now access primary health care and hospital services closer to their areas of residence, and we have provided recreational facilities in areas where apartheid misrule did not dare to venture.

Despite all these achievements, the province is faced with the challenge of rebuilding mud and dilapidated schools and implementing a big-bang plan to revitalise hospitals and other health infrastructure. The major challenge to this is limited state resources and, as such, efficient methods have to be used, and alternatives such as public-private partnerships have to be explored. We have commenced with the construction of comprehensive schools which also provide the facilities necessary for quality learning and teaching, such as laboratories, libraries, computer centres, etc.

Limpopo has successfully co-ordinated the implementation of EPWP Phase 1. Through this programme the province managed to create 144 472 job opportunities and trained 43 253 unemployed workers, with 21 120 entrepreneurial firms benefiting.

The province provided skills to 574 young people through the National Youth Service Programme. A significant number of these young men and women are going to be absorbed into the department to fill vacant posts critical for building maintenance.

The province launched EPWP Phase 2 in March this year. Our target is to create 69 595 work opportunities this financial year, and contribute to the attainment of the national target of creating 500 000 job opportunities by December 2009, as pronounced by the President.

As our humble contribution towards strengthening our skills base, an additional 500 young people will be recruited to participate in the national youth programme. Working together with the private sector, we can do more in this programme. The ultimate goal is to ensure that the youth from the province are capacitated with technical skills in order to benefit optimally in the mining and manufacturing activities taking place in the province.

Limpopo will contribute 496 402 job opportunities, or 248 000 full-time equivalent jobs, to the national five-year target. This target is broken down to each public body, based on the municipal infrastructure grant and provincial infrastructure allocations.

The Limpopo department of public works is focusing on improving project management, real estate and building maintenance capacity. This is critical to ensuring that the province is able to spend its share of the infrastructure budget in time and develop quality infrastructure. In doing so, we will also empower historically disadvantaged individuals through the contractor development and the property incubator programmes. The province has finalised the property management strategy.

The province also benefited from the National Treasury infrastructure development improvement programme, and a turnaround strategy has been developed and is currently being implemented. The province has registered considerable progress in updating the immovable asset register. We are confident that this process will be completed soon, and a proper system aligned to the national initiative will be put in place to keep a credible register henceforth. Redundant properties are being identified for disposal through a variety of alternatives, including selling to historically disadvantaged individuals and transferring to municipalities depending on their needs.

The accumulation of municipal debts is a worrying factor in the province. This affects the financial capacity of municipalities, the majority of which have a low tax base, to render much-needed services. The provincial government owes municipalities rates and taxes and, as such, is contributing to the weakening of this critical sphere of government. The department has commenced with the payment of the devolved rates and taxes to municipalities and plans to accelerate this process in the current financial year.

The province is faced with the challenge of keeping the valuable infrastructure in shape, while at the same time focusing on addressing the backlog. The maintenance of buildings is going to enjoy our top attention, and the available resources will be optimally utilised for this purpose.

Labour-intensive methods are being developed in the maintenance of buildings to ensure that the process can also assist to create much-needed decent jobs and sustainable livelihoods. The province will also ensure that infrastructure development contributes measurably to rural development and the rehabilitation of rural towns. The provincial department of public works is developing plans to support the development of the rural village of Muyexe in Giyani, which has been identified as a pilot rural node by national government.

In conclusion, the province supports the budget, as tabled by the Minister, and commits itself to contributing to its implementation. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms R N RASMENI: Chairperson, these members are not tired at all. They can go for another five hours.

Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Minister present, hon members, all protocol observed, I wish to kick-start my debate on this budget by supporting the Minister and the department on the budget, hoping and wishing that this, as one of our critically important departments in relieving the burden of hunger and unemployment of our people, will ensure that, owing to the enormous mandate we have been given by them, we do not disappoint.

This department is in the process of implementing the asset management Act passed recently by this House. This is an Act that marks a turning point in the efforts of our government to ensure that state assets are in line with the best practices prevailing and comply and conform to international standards. This is an Act designed to show and prove beyond any point that when it relates to asset management, we have adopted the “mitirho ya vulavula” [actions speak louder than words] approach.

Hon members, the local sphere of government, which remains an effective and efficient means of delivering high quality services to the people of our country, was left out in the provisions of the Act. Now, as we act, national and provincial spheres of government march in line with the provisions of this Bill, whose main objectives, amongst other things, are the provision of a uniform immovable asset management framework; promotion of accountability and transparency within government; optimisation of the cost of service delivery by ensuring accountability for capital and recurrent works; and improving health and safety in the working environment.

The scope of application of the Bill was not extended to the local sphere of government — a matter which has extensively been dealt with in this House and concerns related to that noted.

Hon members, we request the department to ensure that the compilation of the asset register is completed. We are fully aware of the fact that assets get moved in and out of the register, but we believe that there are still some assets, especially in the former homeland areas, which have not been registered. One wonders what progress has and is being made with the recommendations made on the report.

The Act provides for good housekeeping as far as asset control on land and buildings is concerned, and it also recognises the need to co-ordinate financial controls in both spheres of government to which it is currently applicable. The strict compliance with the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, places new financial reporting disciplines upon department officials in respect of immovable assets.

My concern, hon members, is the extensive use of consultants in our provincial governments. It is not a discovery by the DA, hon member. As the ANC, we are on top of the issues. We are aware of the challenges. That is why the matter has been aggressively criticised in the state of the nation address, and thus our provincial departments are encouraged to quickly pursue training of our public servants in the management of assets and other specialised areas so that we curb this tendency and avert the huge sums of monies being paid to consultants for work that is supposed to be done by public servants and channel these funds to other areas that are in desperate need.

We have had some success in opening up the construction industry to those who were previously excluded, especially women and youth. However, we know for a fact that transformation in this industry has been slower than anticipated and that we will need to have policy intervention around emerging contractor development.

This programme is indispensable to the national goals of alleviating poverty and creating jobs. We urge the department in this public entity, the Construction Industry Development Board, CIDB, to engage all stakeholders in an endeavour to open up the industry to all.

Of concern, again, is the slow pace of transformation in the industry, which results in the many construction companies being at the first grade, and the highest of our contractors being only at Grade 5, with only two or three at Grade 9.

We urge the department to do everything in its power to ensure that development strategies are put in place. These are strategies that will assist companies of previously disadvantaged communities in getting the necessary impetus to have the skills and experience to be eligible for higher grades, whilst assuring that the department and the quality of what is produced is not compromised.

Lastly, Chairperson, sometimes I get confused in understanding whether some of the DA members are politicians, photographers or investigative journalists. They always bombard us with unnecessary photos and information. These members must learn to be confident of their debate and facts, and must have confidence in our Ministers because they are very responsible. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Thank you very much, Chairperson and hon members, for your constructive comments and your support in the acceptance of our budget. Before I start, allow me, Chairperson, to say that I think this House needs to congratulate Limpopo. They were the first province out of all nine provinces to sign a protocol agreement on the EPWP Phase 2. [Applause.]

And I think that members of this House must go back to their provinces and ask whether their provinces signed up with the national Department of Public Works. You see, these figures are not quite like the way Mr Sinclair understands EPWP. Maybe we just need to spend a few minutes and explain that the budget of EPWP Phase 2 does not sit with the national Department of Public Works. It sits with line-function Ministeries at a national level, and it sits with line-function departments at a provincial level and with local government.

The important part is … [Interjections]. No, you can’t say that, because Mr Wiley needs to talk to you about the constitutional provisions and maybe the two of you can have tea and then you will help each other. [Laughter.]

For once the DA has it right and, of course, Cope is a new kid on the block, so we’ll understand. You’ve got a lot of catching up to do. We’ve been here for 15 years and you are only starting off on the blocks now, but the problem is that we need to understand and that’s what I thought I was doing in my speech. I was giving you examples.

Now if you had done your oversight, Mr Sinclair, you would’ve understood where the money was. The money is there. It’s in the budget. It sits at provincial level and it sits at local government level. We have the model and we have the support and there is a lot of support, and I want to say to …

Ngifuna ukusho lokhu kumfana wasekhaya ubaba uMlenzana … [I want to say to my homeboy, hon Mlenzana …]

… that the support to local government is there. If you remember, we reported about the support that comes from the Development Bank of SA in the committee and we spoke about the support that comes from the Business Trust. So for those municipalities that are participating in EPWP Phase 2, the support is there. We are there for you.

I also said in the committee that besides those two structures giving support to the EPWP and the different spheres of government, we are engaging with the private sector to ask what support they can give in that particular area where they are based in terms of giving capacity, especially where one needs quantity surveyors, architects and surveyors.

And also let me just add that … and hon Sibande, you are correct, the reason why we appointed the IDT as an intermediary is that, firstly, it is a state-owned entity and it accounts to this House and it accounts to the NA because we want you to have oversight over what happens in the non-state sector.

It can’t be a category of the EPWP Phase 2 that doesn’t have an accounting mechanism. So that’s very important for the committee to also observe, and the committee will be provided with the service level agreement that we signed with IDT so that you have oversight, and you will be able to assist us in making sure that the IDT delivers on what we have agreed to.

In respect of the built environment professionals, we’ve made enormous progress in terms of the relationship between them — the councils, the Council for the Built Environment, CBE, and the Ministry of Public Works, as well as the department.

When we came into office last year, there was bad blood between the professional councils and ourselves. And I hope that you have noted that one doesn’t see those big adverts about the Minister of Public Works and Acsa, and everybody else, in the Sunday papers anymore.

We’ve reached an agreement with the professional council that we want to see them achieve certain transformation targets and we’ll hold them accountable and we are currently going through the process of appointing persons to those boards that serve on the different councils. And, on these issues, we are in regular contact with them. We have structured meetings with them. So we don’t talk to each other via the post or on the telephone. We have structured meetings with a structured agenda and we engage on issues. So we are on top of the issues in terms of the professional councils, and the CBE is part of that.

The Construction Industry Development Board, CIDB, has established call centres and I agree, hon Sibande, that the call centres might be in the city centre. When you have a vast province like Limpopo or the Eastern Cape or some of the other provinces or the Northern Cape, you might find that you want the CIDB in rural areas. I will certainly raise that with them, but when you engage with them, as well as in your oversight work with the CIDB, I think you should raise this.

We have reconfigured how Mintek functions. It is no longer a talk shop. For Mintek we are going to set national norms and standards, as the national Minister. When we meet with the nine MECs from the different provinces, we are actually going to look at what progress they are making in terms of the national priorities, so that we can support each other; and the meeting that we had in East London recently was really a landmark meeting.

In fact, it was a shift from the old Minmec style to the Mintek style. And in between meetings with Mintek, heads of departments will meet for a day or two and they will do all the technical work and report back to the political office bearers when we meet in Mintek. So it’s a totally reconfigured Mintek that we are looking at and we are going to be setting ourselves very high objectives because this is what the people expect of us.

In fact, in terms of the budgets - and I think it was hon Groenewald who raised the issue of the buildings, and the poor quality of buildings - that is something that we have to be very vigilant about. You see, when it suits some of us, we use Schedule 4 to say national government should not interfere, but then when things go wrong, then they ask the national Minister what happened.

If you read Schedule 4 in Public Works, it’s a different concurrent function to Education and Health. That is the problem. So when it suits you and you want to ride alone, then you go it alone. But when it’s wrong, then you ask the Minister of Public Works what happened. And then the chickens come home to roost. Because when you built the schools that collapsed, we were not there. It is your concurrent function. It’s yours. So you have to be very careful on how you understand Schedule 4, especially when it comes to Public Works. It is a slightly different concurrent function. It has a qualification.

We have said to the Minister of Basic Education, in reclaiming our mandate, that we are keen to assist provinces with the school-building programme, especially when it comes to the mud schools and unsafe structures, so that we can make an intervention that’s meaningful. And already IDT has done that, and by September this year, we are handing another nine schools over. This is a big step because those schools are different. They have solar panels. They have IT. They have gardens. They have libraries. They are complete schools. That’s the difference and there were two recently opened in Limpopo. That is a different kind of school than just building classrooms. That’s an institution that has been built and that the community can be proud of. And once again, Limpopo has taken the lead in this particular process. And we really must say that other provinces should rise to the challenge and give us the opportunity to get IDT to assist in the process.

Comrade Mabija, you are correct. The Public Works Department is where we co- ordinate. It’s where we lead the process of the EPWP and yes, what’s going to be important for us, as departments, is whether national or provincial is the monitoring and evaluation body of what’s going on. We have to do more with less. We’re going to get good value for money. We must not always look at money as an obstacle. We must sometimes look at what we are using the current budgets for and see how we can get more mileage out of our rand. So it’s going to be important.

With regard to the asset register, hon Wiley, I think you might have misunderstood the Deputy Minister. We need systems that talk to each other because when you want us to transfer land to you, as often happens, there might be a piece of land owned by the national Department of Public Works. We need to transfer that to the province or to local government through you, but then our systems don’t talk to each other. So we must have uniform systems that talk to each other. We can’t go beyond that in terms of what resides with the province in terms of the Constitution, as well as local government.

Public Works is undergoing a turnaround strategy itself. Very soon, I think next week, the acting director-general will be putting into place a new senior management structure that will respond to the issue of how we deal with project management; how we deal with the core mandate of Public Works, and that’s going to be a shift from what we’ve been doing in the past.

Some of the issues raised by the hon Wiley are more about provincial programmes than national. I wouldn’t be able to assist him there. I certainly appreciate all the support that has been given to us in terms of this Budget Vote, but I also want to say to the NCOP that we will support the select committee; whenever they invite us, we will be there. And you still have outstanding oversight over the entities and the department should come back and present a little bit more detail on many of the other projects, but certainly, Chairperson, we are going to achieve our target of halving unemployment by 2014. Thank you. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, hon Minister. Maybe before we conclude, on the question of Limpopo being the first and the first and the first and once more being the first, of course, in this new administration, as the MEC of Public Works to have participated in this Budget Vote as the first province, once more, I think it is important that you acknowledge that as well and to say that it would probably also be good for the MEC to encourage his counterparts in other provinces, as well, to do likewise because this is the only time that we, as permanent delegates, really get to know what is happening in other provinces when the MEC, in actual fact, is here participating in the debate and outlining his or her programmes in the respective province. So I think it is just one way of appreciating what Limpopo did.

Debate concluded. The Council adjourned at 20:46. ____



National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

  1. Membership of Committees

    The following members were appointed Co-Chairpersons of the Constitutional Review Committee with effect from 2 July 2009:

    Holomisa, Inkosi S P Chaane, Mr T E


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

  1. The Minister of Health
(a)     Strategic Plan of  the  Department  of  Health  for  2009/10  –

National Council of Provinces

  1. Report of the Select Committee on Social Services on Budget Vote 4 and Strategic plan 2009 – 2011 of the Department of Home Affairs, dated 30 June 2009:

The Department of Home Affairs briefed the Select Committee on their budget and strategic plan and highlighted the following amongst other issues:

  1. The Department will be introducing the smart-card system in order to streamline the identification process and eliminate fraudulent reproduction of identity documents.

  2. The documentation system will be digitised in order to eliminate storage of hard copies. This will improve the safety of documents.

  3. Centres of excellence in order to improve delivery of service are to be set up in some provinces and rolled out in all provinces over time.

The Select Committee, after considering Budget Vote 4 as well as the Strategic Plan of the Department of Home Affairs, raised the following concerns:

  1. Present legislation need to be reviewed and regulations need to be streamlined so that the security of the country and its citizens is not compromised.

  2. Security measures at ports-of-entry need to be more stringent.

  3. The management and implementation of the smart-card system to be properly explained to the committee.

  4. Electronic and digital systems need to be accessible to citizens in both rural and urban areas

  5. The role of centres of excellence should be clearly defined

  6. The Committee is concerned about the disclaimer in the Auditor- General’s report on 2009/10 financial report

  7. Mobile units should be adequately located and accessible in both farming and rural communities in order to maximise their usage

In conclusion:

The department will have to come back at a later stage so that strategic plan can be intensely dealt with. The committee will engage with the department on a regular basis to deal with matters as they arise.

The Committee recommends that Budget Vote 4 be passed.

Report to be considered.