National Council of Provinces - 07 November 2008



The Council met at the Lady Frere Stadium in Lady Frere, Emalahleni Local Municipality, at 09:29.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.


USIHLALO WEBHUNGA LAMAPHONDO LESIZWE: Masithuleni sonke; siza kuthandaza! Masithuleni sonke! Yimani kwezo ndawo nimi kuzo nithule. Thulani nonke ningathethi; siyathandaza. Masithuleni sonke! Eli lithuba lokuthandaza. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Let us all keep quiet; we are going to pray! Let us all be quiet! Stand where you are and be quiet. Keep quiet, all of you; we are praying. Let us keep quiet! It is time for us to pray.]

Order, order! I must first announce, …

… mawethu, ukuba le yiNdlu yePalamente. Le Ndlu yePalamente, iBhunga laMaphondo leSizwe, ihleli ngokomthetho namhlanje. Akukho mntu esiza kumvumela ukuba athethe. Thulani nithi cwaka nimamele aMalungu ePalamente ethetha nani namhlanje, noMongameli weli lizwe. Masihlale nje sithi cwaka. Ukubangaba uyasukuma uya ngaphandle, sukuma uthe cwaka. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[… countrymen, that this is a sitting of Parliament. This House, the NCOP, is sitting here officially today. We are not going to allow anyone else to talk. So keep quiet and listen to the Members of Parliament and the President of this country as they talk to you. Let us sit down and be quiet. If you are going out, please do so quietly.]

                       WELCOMING OF PRESIDENT

Hon members, I am informed that the Whippery has agreed that there won’t be motions today. Before we proceed, I would like to take this opportunity to welcome the President of the Republic, hon Kgalema Motlanthe to the sitting of the NCOP and call upon him to deliver his annual address. [Applause.]


The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Chairperson of the NCOP, Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, hon premiers and MECs present here, hon members of the NCOP, Ministers present here, distinguished guests, our leaders, amakhosi, ladies and gentlemen, I am honoured to share with you some modest thoughts on the occasion of my maiden speech to this august body, the NCOP.

Allow me to use this important occasion to thank my predecessor, Thabo Mbeki, for the good work he has done to further advance our country towards the achievement of a nonracial, nonsexist, prosperous and democratic South Africa. [Applause.]

I would like to congratulate you, members of the NCOP, on taking Parliament to the people. It is a major contribution to participatory democracy when ordinary people see one of the Houses of Parliament in their own areas monitoring and evaluating the impact of government, and identifying the outstanding needs of our people.

This is crucially important, because we meet at a time of global financial crisis, which is likely to affect our economy and therefore impact negatively on our people. We have to rely on structures such as the NCOP to raise pertinent questions, which would enable us to prepare an adequate response to these impending negative effects.

The NCOP is a unique institution, bringing together the national, provincial and local spheres of government into one Chamber. Essentially, the NCOP exists as a platform for the diversity of our people, as expressed in the interests it represents in the provinces and municipalities of our country.

The NCOP is, therefore, a crucial instrument in fashioning not only national consensus, but also social cohesion at moments which are difficult and challenging in our national life and in the world at large. The NCOP reminds us of what holds us together when the instinct of our nation may be to polarise. Our values are underpinned by the quest for unity instead of division, reconciliation rather than bitterness, and the continuous pursuit of social and economic justice rather than accepting poverty and inequality as inevitable. More importantly, human solidarity is paramount in our country, in Africa and the world.

Today we must communicate hope in the face of a global financial crisis and in the aftermath of attacks on foreign nationals in South Africa, and we must assert that our democracy can withstand any contestation of ideas if they are based on principles, policy and the wellbeing of all our people.

Today we must commit to building unity and social cohesion. Today, too, it is appropriate that we mark the ascendancy of Senator Barack Obama to the presidency of the United States of America. [Applause.] Congratulating him is in order not simply because he is the first with his roots on the continent of Africa, but also because he has raised the expectations that the world could be a better place and that the United States of America could play a more constructive role by respecting our multilateral institutions, by solving problems through objective dialogue and by investing in the developing world.

While not believing that a single individual can easily overturn an entire system, we must remain committed to the possibility of world peace, economic justice and a world in which the powerful recognise their own vulnerability if the less powerful and the powerless are unable to manage their growing levels of desperation.

Barack Obama has indeed created a platform where we could all co-operate towards these goals. Given these possibilities, the NCOP must position itself so that it plays the role for which it has been created. It therefore requires all of us to ask critical questions of the functioning of the NCOP, foremost of which is: After 11 years of existence, is the NCOP functioning optimally?

The more substantial review relates to the NCOP’s role in building unity and cohesion in a fragile society and its role in holding provinces and local governments accountable to their duty in overcoming poverty and inequality in our country.

The precursor to these substantial questions involves the institutional questions: Has the NCOP sufficiently defined for itself an identity and role unique to itself and distinct from the NA? Is the NCOP robust enough in its interactions with provincial executive councils and mayoral committees? Do the 54 permanent delegates and 36 special delegates give the NCOP sufficient capacity to do its work properly? Is local government sufficiently represented? Is the voice of Salga powerful enough both to be held accountable and to represent the needs of that sphere of government? Are the roles and functions of the provinces and local government, in relation to national government, sufficiently clarified and defined so as to ensure the optimum role of the NCOP? Finally, how does the NCOP ensure that, after it leaves the Chris Hani district and the Emalahleni Municipality, the lives of citizens will be improved?

Listening is one thing, monitoring and implementation another. The NCOP needs to have the capacity to ensure that the problems identified and the issues raised by the local people are responded to promptly and resolved satisfactorily. [Applause.]

These critical questions are not just for the NCOP to answer. Cabinet has mandated the Department of Provincial and Local Government to review the policy framework on provincial and local spheres of government. Two principles have informed the Department of Provincial and Local Government’s approach to its mandate.

The first is that the starting point should be an evidence-based assessment of how the system of provincial and local government is currently functioning. Secondly, the public must be invited to contribute to this examination at the very start of the process. What we can say with confidence is that provincial and local spheres of government have contributed immensely to national reconstruction and development over the last 14 years.

Today, millions of people have access to basic services, primary health care, compulsory education, social security, municipal infrastructure and many other benefits, thanks in large measure to the contribution of these spheres of government.

However, there are weaknesses that hamper the effectiveness of governments. Some of these weaknesses are institutional whilst others are the product of economic and other factors that affect state capacity and performance. A significant cause relates to the skills, leadership, commitment and accountability of the human capital that is ultimately the backbone of any system of governance.

Combined, these pressures and weaknesses have inhibited both spheres in discharging their core mandates effectively. To overcome these problems and ensure that all spheres work co-operatively and optimally towards shared goals, it is important that the roles and functions of the spheres of government should be clarified to improve efficiency and accountability and that a clear intergovernmental framework for intervention, monitoring and support be developed.

In addition, we must address the following provincial challenges. Provincial administrations rely on transfers from central government and may be more accountable to the national government than to the electorate. The more rural provinces face serious challenges to attract and retain members of the Public Service, especially professionals in areas of management, finance and information technology.

Given that the core constitutional mandate of provinces is that of service delivery in social services, health and education, how do we both improve the effectiveness of delivery in these areas and also critically deal with the role provinces should play in economic development?

In respect of local government, the following aspects are pertinent. Access to basic services has improved but sustainability is still a great concern. Long-term solutions are needed to address the skills shortage and the growing grant dependency of municipalities that are not financially viable. Assessment of the functionality of the two-tiered local government system suggests that institutional reform may be necessary and the unevenness in performance across all categories of municipalities may require new approaches in the allocation of powers and functions. In other words, a package of responses is needed to improve the effectiveness of the system.

Any cause of action arising from these findings will ultimately have to be in the best interests of the country. Any changes proposed must improve local democracy and accountability whilst finding the appropriate balance between the national policy direction and provincial and local discretion.

This work is continuing and we are confident that when the final recommendations are made society and our communities will debate the issues comprehensively so that in the medium term we can improve on what we have with the aim to serve the people better.

South Africa has entered a time that will test our fortitude as a nation and our ability to protect the gains we have made. We have had over four years of fairly rapid economic growth when we were able to add hundreds of thousands of new jobs annually, when the income of ordinary South Africans grew by 4% a year on average and when government was able to increase its expenditure, especially on social services, by nearly 10% a year.

Our living standards have been steadily improving as we steadily but surely chipped away at the scourge of unemployment and kept our focus firmly on reaching the Millennium Development Goals. In the midst of this growing optimism, a sudden black cloud descended on the world economy, posing a threat to the gains we have been making.

An international financial crisis has erupted, pushing many parts of the world economy into a slower mode with especially some highly industrialised countries expecting very low growth or even the shrinking of their economies.

Accordingly, in South Africa we have had to lower our expectations too, but not because our own financial sector is threatened; it is not. Our financial institutions have been scrutinised, they have been tested and they have passed those tests with flying colours. Thus, in South Africa, ours has been a slowing down of a secure base with sound fundamentals, unlike in some other countries where the cutbacks have been catastrophic. We are not going to enter a recession and indeed we expect our economic performance to be better than that of many of our peers.

One important reason for this is that we have a very big infrastructure investment programme. We are rebuilding roads, bridges, airports, pipelines, railway systems, houses, hospitals, prisons, schools and community facilities. In addition, we are also driving infrastructure programmes to host the best ever Fifa World Cup in our country. [Applause.]

I wish to assure you that we will continue with this investment programme as well as our social investment even at this difficult time because we have been careful with our finances. Nevertheless, growth will be slower than we had previously hoped for. This is in part because the international financial crisis has reduced the demand for some of our exports.

Going back to your provinces and municipalities, you have a responsibility to prepare our people to unite in withstanding the impact of these challenges. Both government and all of our households should make sure we do not make financial commitments that might be difficult to sustain. Similarly, we must not be complacent about the electricity challenges that we continue to face.

Not only must we continue to roll out electricity to the poor who have no access, but we must also continue to manage the demand of all who already have access to electricity. The very small margin between electricity demand and electricity supply has necessitated some rationing of power. In this regard, this summer will be a very difficult period when most of the Eskom maintenance will be undertaken.

To manage this period effectively, we urge all consumers, businesses and private homes to be very careful about their use of electricity. At times when things are in abundance and there’s ready access, we take them for granted.

Many a time we have seen in homes, for example, that when there is just a grain of rice in the sink, instead of picking it up and throwing into the bin, we use half a litre of water to flush it down the drain. Of course, water is also going to be a very scarce commodity, so we need at this very juncture to begin to educate ourselves and make sure that we preserve these resources so that when difficult times arrive we will be able to survive them.

In essence, this is a time to take a bold step forward and not to stand still or sit back, as there is clearly a huge amount of work to do.

We remain committed to the six tasks identified in our Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative, Asgisa. These are to improve our infrastructure, to invest in the skills of our people, to support industrial development through better competition, trade and industrial sector policies, to strengthen the capacity of the state, especially in support of economic development, to reduce the volatility of the rand, and to ensure that economic growth is more effectively shared.

In all of these areas we have made progress, but it is equally true that there is still much to do; and especially in the current economic environment our ultimate prosperity lies in investing in our future.

Though we grew strongly in recent years and more people than ever before were employed in new jobs, we have not been able to reduce some of the severe inequalities. This means that the imperative of growth must be balanced more strongly by the imperative to share the growth.

Inequality and the persistence of poverty remain the most daunting challenges facing us as a nation, and if we can tackle these head-on we will share with our people the proceeds of growth. This is why the Deputy President launched a public discussion last week on a proposed comprehensive antipoverty strategy.

Through the public discussion of this draft strategy, we hope to arrive at a set of prioritised interventions to address poverty and inequality more effectively. We need to strengthen our efforts to provide high-quality basic services to all.

Similarly, we need to ensure that the developmental outcomes of our interventions enable us to achieve a decent quality of life for our people. An antipoverty strategy must also address inequality by addressing the factors that perpetuate this phenomenon. A critical factor is skills development. Without adequate human capital, individuals are unable to take advantage of the economic opportunities available.

We cannot continue to have good schools for a minority of our people and poorly performing schools for the majority. We need to address the inequalities in educational outcomes that result in inequalities in the labour market and the economy.

Furthermore, in tackling poverty we also need to ensure the accumulation of assets for the poor, which will enable them to create various economic opportunities. Better roads, better fences, access to irrigation, access to electrical power – these are the kinds of assets that can help the poor households to improve their own livelihoods. The provision of safety nets in the form of social assistance and the provision of basic services continues to be critical in our efforts to combat poverty.

In the long run, though, our goal is to reduce dependence on social assistance by assisting able-bodied individuals to become self-reliant. We will know that we are reaching our objectives when the number of people requiring social assistance falls because more people have decent work or run their own businesses. At this point, we have 12 million people receiving one social grant or another. That number needs to be reduced as we succeed in providing our people with the wherewithal to be self-reliant.

Hon members, as we go forward, we want to build and reinforce partnerships at all levels between departments, agencies, business, society and nongovernmental organisations. This must be based on an open and collaborative dialogue on our shared objectives and our respective contributions to shared growth and the reduction of poverty and inequality. We need to set goals together, focus on them and agree on concrete steps about how to achieve these goals in preparing for the next period of government, so that we are focused on our challenges and certain about our priorities.

To this end the Presidency recently published Towards a Fifteen Year Review, which takes stock of progress and weaknesses since the attainment of democracy in achieving the objective of improving the quality of life of all our people.

We encourage our social partners and citizens at large not only to give their own views on these critical matters, but also to assess the impact of their own activities on the social dynamics within our nation and further afield.

As a nation we face a choice. We could continue on the same path of gradual and stop-start improvements, or we could, instead, identify bold steps that will raise our level of growth and development. We could be perpetually suspicious about each other, or collaborate in building social cohesion and unite our people against everything that creates insecurity in our society. Along with the three spheres of our system of government, this House is charged with a profound responsibility to contribute decisively to the efforts to change the lives of South Africans for the better. I am confident that the NCOP is more than ready to realise its mandate as defined in the Constitution.

Hon members, I call on you to return to your provinces, your localities, and your constituencies with one aim in mind. Over the next two days, we want you to ensure that every South African of voting age or who will be of voting age next year registers for the election.

I myself am going to the voting station near my residence to check on my voting status and to ensure that I am registered. And, of course, I will vote for your party. [Applause.] This is the basis of our work to consolidate our democracy. Chairperson and Members of the NCOP, it has, indeed, been a privilege and an honour for me to address you. I thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Good morning, hon members, ladies and gentlemen. This is a full sitting of the NCOP. I would like to request the public not to take part in the debate. The debate is for the hon members and I would like them to take their seats according to their precedence on the speakers’ list. While the first speaker is speaking, the other will sit on my right so that we do not waste any time. I now call upon the hon M J Mahlangu, Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, to address the House.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, Your Excellency President K P Motlanthe, hon Premier Sogoni and other premiers present here today; hon Speaker N Kiviet and other Speakers who are present from other provinces; hon Capa, Chairperson of Salga in the province; hon members from different provinces and permanent delegates, ukumnkani wethu uMatanzima [our King Matanzima] and other traditional leaders and religious leaders, fellow South Africans …

… okokuqala, ndifuna ukubulela kwiOfisi yoBongameli ngokuxhasa inkqubo yokuzisa iPalamente ebantwini. Ndiyakubulela ke, Mongameli. [Kwaqhwatywa.]

Okwesibini, ndithi maz’ enethole kwiinkokheli zephondo leMpuma Koloni nakurhulumente wezasekhaya ngentsebenziswano ekuziseni iBhunga laMaphondo leSizwe ebantwini. Ndiyabulela ke nakuni. [Kwaqhwatywa.]

Okwesithathu, ndithi ngxatsho ke kuMzi kaXhosa; kwisizukulwana sikaNtsikana, sikaMqhayi, sikaSoga, sikaJabavu, sikaRubusana, ngokusabela ikhwelo lembizo yePalamente. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[… firstly, I want to thank the Office of the Presidency for supporting the programme of Taking Parliament to the People. I thank you, Mr President. [Applause.]

Secondly, I commend the Eastern Cape leaders and the local government for their co-operation in bringing the National Council of Provinces to the people. I thank you also. [Applause.]

Thirdly, hats off to the House of Xhosa; the generation of Ntsikana, of Mqhayi, of Soga, of Jabavu, of Rubusana, for attending the imbizo of Parliament. [Applause.]]

Ngibonga uMongameli wezwe oye wathatha lesi sikhathi ukubongela lowo ophumelele ukuba nguMongameli wezwe laseMelika. Nginethemba lokuthi njengoba engumAfrika uzobhekisa amehlo akhe kwizwekazi lase-Afrika, akwazi ukusebenzisana nathi.

Inkulumo enkulu namhlanje kithi bantu bakithi, basEmalahleni naseChris Hani District eyokuthi singalwisana kanjani nendlala sisonke, ohulumeni bobathathu behlangene kanye nabantu bedlala indima ebalulekile embusweni kanye nasePhalamende.

Yizo izinto ebesikhuluma ngazo lezi kusukela ngoMsombuluko kwaze kwashaya ilanga layizolo. Namhlanje nizwile ukuthi uMongameli uhambe phezu kwazo zonke lezi zinto ebesikhuluma ngazo kwaba sengathi ubekhona laphaya endlini yethu. Nimzwile kuzona zonke izinto ebengikhuluma ngazo nengizokhuluma ngazo namanje, ngiyeza kuzo. Mangithi-ke okokuqala nje zonke lezi zinto enizikhulumile kufuneka zilandelelwe ukuze zenziwe.

Amalungu ePhalamende eKapa azobuya azobheka lezi zinto esikhulume ngazo lapha. Amalungu esifundazwe salapha eMpumalanga Kapa azobuya lapha phansi ezobheka lezi zinto esikhulume ngazo ukuthi ziyenzeka yini. Amakhansela wonke akule ndawo yaseChris Hani, ikakhulukazi Emalahleni, nawo azobheka ukuthi ngabe lezi zinto esikhulume ngazo lapha ziyenzeka yini. Ukuza kwethu lapha besingezanga ukuzodlala kepha size ukuzosebenza, kanye nokubheka ukuthi zonke lezi zinto uhulumeni azethembise abantu ziyenzeka.

Mangibonge kubantu bakwaXhosa bonke abakhona namhlanje nanokuthi nikhulume kahle nonke kusukela isonto liqalile. Nasho nokuthi uhulumeni unguhulumeni osebenzayo futhi niyajabula kodwa kusesekhona izinto eziningi enifuna ukuthi anenzele zona. Nayo-ke into esiyithandayo thina. Into engijabulise kakhulu ukuthi nikhulume nikhululekile, nikhuluma nabaholi benu abakuhulumeni kanye nabasePhalamende futhi nikhuluma ngobuhlungu obuphuma ezinhliziyweni zenu kodwa ninethemba elikhulu ukuthi uhulumeni uzozenza lezo zinto. Sizozenza [Ihlombe.]

Uma izinsiza zingakafinyeleli kweyakho indawo zizofika, ungapheli ithemba. Siyazi ukuthi zikhona ezinye ezingakenziwa khona kodwa zisendleleni ziyeza. Isonto lonke nje liqalile sibhalise izicelo ezingama-330 lapho khona kwakudingwa ukuthi abantu basizakale ngokudla. Sabhalisa izicelo ezingama- 54 ezibonelelo zezimali zabantwana kanye nezicelo ezingama-55 zemali yokukhubazeka. Abantu babambe olayini isonto lonke bethatha amapasi, izitifiketi eMnyangweni Wezasekhaya laphaya ngaphandle. Ngithanda ukuthi niqhubeke nenze kanjalo.

Kanti noMnyango Wezasekhaya uhambele kuzona zonke izindawo zasemakhaya unisiza ukunithathisa amapasi kanye nezitifiketi zezingane ngoba uma ningenazo lezi zincwadi angeke nizithole lezi zinto uhulumeni afuna ukuninikeza zona.

Kusesekhona okusasalele ezikoleni zakithi. Zikhona impela izikole ezinhle engizivakashele ezinjengaseGcinubuzwe kanye naseLukhanyo lena eNdwe. Zinhle kakhulu lezi zikole kodwa-ke kukhona ezinye ezisasalele ngemuva, futhi uhulumeni unohlelo lokuzakha lezo zikole. Ngithe ngifuna uhlelo lwabo ngaphambi kokuba ngihambe, nalu ngiluphethe banginikezile lona. [Ihlombe.]

Sizele ukuzobona ukuthi uhulumeni uhlelo lwakhe ngabe luyini. Banginikezile, sizolubheka sibuye futhi sizobheka ukuthi lezi zi kole abathi bazozakha bazozakha na. Asilwi nabo kepha senza umsebenzi wethu. Asilwi nabo kodwa sifuna umsebenzi wenziwe.

Ngamanzi nisakhala kakhulu, ushilo uMongameli wezwe. Ukuvuselelwa kwamadamu yinto enikhulume ngayo kabanzi kuleli sonto. Ukufakwa kocingo nokubiyela emasimini ukuze imfuyo ingadli izitshalo zenu yinto enikhulume ngayo kabanzi. Nifuna ukusizwa kumabhizinisi amancane ukuze nithole izimali, nizenzele impilo engeyenu. Hhayi nilokhu nibheke uhulumeni ukuthi anenzele kodwa ukuthi anisize ukuthi nisukume nani. Yizo izinto enikhulume ngazo lezi.

Nifuna ukuvula imigodi yezokwembiwa ukuze kuvuleke imisebenzi laphaya eNdwe. Ngishilo ukuthi ngizokhuluma noNgqonqgoshe Wezokwembiwa Phansi Namandla, umama uSonjica ukuze eze lapha ezobheka zonke lezo zinto. Nifuna imithi, abahlengikazi, odokotela emitholampilo kanye nasezibhedlela. Niyakhala ngezikole ukuthi mazakhiwe ngokushesha njengoba sengishilo.

Kuzo zonke lezi zinto eniphawule ngazo uhulumeni uyazazi, unohlelo lokuba azonenzela zona. Zibalulekile kakhulu, bafike kwesinye isikole bathola izingane zingenawo amadeski okuhlala. Uhulumeni uzowafaka amadeski kuleso sikole. Ngiyajabula ukuthi sikhona leso sikole kulolu hlelo lwabo.

Mongameli wezwe njengoba ushaye khona, uyishaye esikhonkosini inkinga-ke esinayo kwi-NCOP ukuthi njengoba sizile lapha phansi siswela ithuba lokuthi siphindaphinde, size kaningi ukuze sibone ukuthi izinto ziyenzeka.

Sizobuya kodwa-ke njengoba uMongameli eseshilo, ngicela ukuthi sincedane sonke isifundazwe saseMpumalanga Kapa kanye nohulumeni basekhaya ukuthi masihamba basale bebheka lezi zinto. Nathi masesibuya ngelinye ilanga sikwazi ukubona ukuthi umsebenzi uqhutshiwe, umsebenzi wenziwe futhi umsebenzi uphethiwe. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[I thank the President of the country for taking the trouble to congratulate the newly elected President of the United States of America. I do hope that because he is an African he will consider the African continent and be able to work co-operatively with us.

Our biggest topic today with regard to our fellow people of Emalahleni and Chris Hani districts is: How can we fight hunger together, with all three spheres of government working interdependently and people playing a vital role in government and in Parliament?

These are the things we have been discussing from Monday until yesterday. And today also you heard the hon President touching upon everything that we spoke about as if he was there in the House. You all heard him talking about everything that I spoke about, and other things that I am going to talk about now. First of all, let me say that all these things that you mentioned need to be considered in order for them to be implemented.

The Members of Parliament from Cape Town will revisit this area to see if all these things we have discussed here have been attended to. The members of the provincial legislature will also pay you a short visit to check if all these things we spoke about here are indeed implemented. All ward councillors of the Chris Hani District Municipality - more particularly from Emalahleni - will also check on whether these things we spoke about are implemented or not. Our visit here was not to play games, but to do work and to ensure that all these things that the government had promised to the people are done.

Let me thank all of you Xhosa people who are present here today, for you all spoke very well since the beginning of this week. You also mentioned that this government is a working government and that you are happy even though there are still a lot of things that you need government to do for you. And that is what we like. What excited me even more was that you spoke freely when you were talking to your leaders in government and those in Parliament. You also spoke about the pain in your hearts and also indicated that you still have high hopes that the government will do those things. We shall indeed do them. [Applause.]

If the services have not reached your area yet, do not just lose hope; they will arrive. We know very well that there is still a lot to be done, and it will be done. Since the beginning of this week alone, we have registered 330 applications for social relief distress in the form of food vouchers. We have also registered 54 applications for child support grants and 55 for disability grants. People queued for the whole week, registering for identity documents and certificates in the Home Affairs mobile offices out there. I would like you to continue doing that.

The Department of Home Affairs mobile unit also visited all the villages around this area helping you with the applications for identity documents and birth certificates, because if you do not have such documents you will never access these services that the government wants to provide you with.

There is still a lot to be done in our schools. There are of course beautiful schools which I have visited, like Gcinubuzwe and Lukhanyo in Indwe. These schools are very beautiful, but there are also those which are still lagging far behind. But the government has a plan to construct those schools. I said I wanted their plan before I leave and here it is; they gave it to me. [Applause.]

We have come here to see for ourselves as to what the government’s plan is. They gave me their plan of action and we will look at it and then we shall come back to see if they are really constructing the schools that they promised to build. We are not fighting with them but we are just doing our job. We are not fighting with them but we just want the work to be done.

You are still aggrieved about the water supply; the President also acknowledged that. The revival of dams is something that you mentioned now and again this week. You also constantly mentioned the fencing of fields so that the livestock cannot consume your plants, as one of the things that you want. You also need assistance in your small businesses so that you can get funding and live independently. You do not want to always depend on government services but to be assisted by the government to stand on your own. These are the things you spoke about.

You want to open the mining expedition in order to create job opportunities in Indwe. I have said that I shall speak to the Minister of Minerals and Energy, hon Sonjica, who will come here to look at all those things. You need medicines, nurses and doctors in clinics and hospitals. You are complaining that the schools must be built immediately, as I have alluded to.

All the things that you have pointed out are known to the government. The government is aware of them all and it has a plan to deliver on them. These things are highly important.

In another, schoolchildren had no desks to sit at. Government will provide that school with desks. I am happy that that school is indicated in their plan.

Mr President, you hit the nail on the head. You were definitely correct to say that the problem with the NCOP is that we do not have time to come back to the people again to see if the things that were supposed to be addressed have indeed been addressed.

But as the hon President has said, we will indeed come back. I would, however, like to appeal to the province of the Eastern Cape and local government to work with us in this regard and to see to it that after our departure these things are attended to. And when we come back one day we should be able to see that there has been progress, the work has been done and the work has been completed.]

Mr President, last year we held a 10th anniversary summit, and one of the recommendations made was for a review of the size and make-up of the NCOP. The view is that the NCOP is unique and is therefore unlike a traditional second house of Parliament, which is normally regarded as a House of review. This House is a House that monitors the implementation of the three spheres of government, in terms of intergovernmental relations.

The integrated plans of these three spheres of government are very important to improve the service delivery on the ground. Its responsibility for oversight over our international relations system requires capacity that matches the task. Even with our focused approach, I’m not sure and not convinced that we have the right numbers in the NCOP. It is a debate that we are engaging in.

However, I must thank the members of the NCOP for their commitment despite the heavy load on their shoulders. Their sacrifice to the nation is beyond measure. You have seen it all the way this week. For the first time this week we have done such a great amount of work, even going to the villages and visiting many sites to go and execute an oversight function over the areas that the government is trying to cover for our people on the ground. We are very happy with the way in which we have actually broadened our scope in undertaking the site visits and the oversight function in the Eastern Cape.

I also wish to thank all South Africans for the humbling response we have received across the country where we took this programme. Clearly, people have put their hope in us and, together, we dare not fail them. We cannot fail them.

Abantu bakithi yibona abasenze ukuba sibe la ezihlalweni esikuzo, sibe la embusweni esikuwo kungebanga lala bantu abahleli lana. Singumlomo wabo masise Palamente.Uma bahleli la bazokuzwa izwi lethu ukuthi sibalimele kanjani ePalamente. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Our people are the reason we occupy these positions; we are in government because of the people who are sitting here. We represent the people in Parliament. They come to get feedback on the things we do in Parliament.]

Masisukumeni sonke ke, mawethu, sihambeni siye kugqiba umsebenzi wethu emakhaya ngokwehluka-hlukana. Ndiyabulela, mawethu. Ndithethile; ndiyathemba kuvakele. Ndiyabulela. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[Countrymen, let us go back to our respective constituencies and complete the tasks at hand. I have spoken; I hope you understood. Thank you.]

The PREMIER OF THE EASTERN CAPE (Mr M Sogoni): Madam Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP; His Excellency the President of the Republic; hon M J Mahlangu, the Chairperson and Members of the NCOP, Ministers and premiers present here, hon Speaker Kiviet and members of the Eastern Cape provincial legislature, members of the executive council in the Eastern Cape …

… kumkani uMatanzima! Aah! Zwelenkosi!, nazo zonke iinkokheli zemveli, zikhokhelwa nguNkos’ uNgangomhlaba, uMama uCapa, Sodolophu wase-O R Tambo nosihlalo weSalga, nabo bonke oosodolophu namalungu ebhunga akhoyo apha namhlanje, zinkok heli zakwaLizwi, zinkokheli noluntu lwas’ Emalahleni naseChris Hani iphela… (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[… king Matanzima! Hail! Zwelenkosi! All traditional leaders under the leadership of Chief Ngangomhlaba, Mrs Capa, Mayor of O R Tambo and the chairperson of Salga, all the mayors and members of council present here today, religious leaders, leaders in general and the community of Emalahleni and the entire Chris Hani District Municipality …]

… government officials from all three spheres of government, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen …

… nam ndiyavuya ukufumana eli thuba lokuthabatha inxaxheba kule ngxoxo. Ndiqinisekile ukuba ndichulumance ngakumbi xa le ntente kule ngingqi yas’ Emalahleni igcwele ngolu hlobo. [… I am glad to get this opportunity to participate in this debate. I am even more elated that this tent in this region of Emalahleni is filled to capacity as it is.]

And it has been like this for the whole week. [Applause.]

Uthe uTata uMahlangu kuthi xa besimana ukudibana noSomlomo uMama uKieviet… [Mr Mahlangu told us, during one of our constant meetings with Madam Speaker Kiviet …]

… in preparation for this …

… ukuba siza kulungiselela inani elinga ngenxa yokuba imali esiza kuthi sikwazi ukuba nayo yokubonelela ngokuya ethunjini nezinye izinto, yimali enga. Sathi thina kodwa … [… that we will be preparing for a specific number of people, for catering purposes and other expenditure. We told him that …]

… for the effective participation of the people of Emalahleni and Chris Hani, it cannot be about money. It has to be that we must create the platform where they participate to the maximum. And thank you very much for not failing us. [Applause.]

Perhaps even more important to me is the singular honour bestowed on me to welcome His Excellency President Motlanthe on the occasion of his first official visit to the Eastern Cape in his capacity as President of the Republic. [Applause.]

Mr President, I’m certain that I speak on behalf of the people of the Eastern Cape in general, and the Emalahleni and Chris Hani districts in particular, in saying thank you for coming. I have always thought I was new in office, but I have since observed that there are newer occupants in the distant neighbourhood of Pretoria and Gauteng.

Once more, on behalf of the entrepreneurs of Emalahleni and Chris Hani municipalities, many thanks to the leadership of the NCOP for bringing the much-needed cash injection into the local economy. It was nice doing business with you. For the whole of this week …

… abantu bas’Emalahleni nabo bonke oomasipala balapha eChris Hani … [… the community of Emalahleni and the whole of the Chris Hani District Municipality …]

… played host to the NCOP as it sponsored the programme Taking Parliament to the People under the theme Parliament Empowering Communities for Poverty Eradication.

Lo mxholo ke kubonakala ukuba unxulumene kakhulu noluntu lwalapha. [This theme, therefore, has proven to be close to the heart of this community.]

Indeed the questions that were asked and the discussions that ensued confirmed that the identified focus areas such as agriculture, health, education, housing, etc, all proved to be high on their list of development priorities and issues of concern.

Importantly, this programme has been well attended and enriched by discussions with and the active participation by ordinary people - men and women, young and old. In this way our people have been able to share their experiences, both positive and negative, with their elected representatives and made useful inputs for the improvement of the systems of governance designed to provide services to them.

Xa besimamele iveki le yonke ngexa iingxoxo beziqhuba apha, siqwalasele indlela yokuziphatha kakuhle kwabantu bas‘ Emalahleni naseChris Hani. [Kwaqhwatywa.] [We have noted how the community of Emalahleni in the Chris Hani District Municipality has been well behaved the whole week we have been having these ongoing debates. [Applause.]]

I came to the conclusion that the people of this area are, in fact, well empowered with the knowledge of their community’s needs, information on government services that fall below their expectation and the wisdom of what needs to be done to improve their living conditions for the better.

Furthermore, the programme has provided government with one more opportunity to identify with the conditions under which the masses of our people live, to identify constraints and weaknesses at provincial and local levels, and certainly, what we have been listening to in these engagements will inform our strategic decision-making processes moving forward.

I have no doubt that the leadership of the NCOP, our own members of the provincial legislature and members of the executive council have seen and heard for themselves the actual living conditions of our people.

Abantu bakuthi, Tat’uMongameli bathi… [Hon President, our people are saying …]

… thank you for the opportunities that government has provided for them in the period since 1994. All questions asked and comments made left us with the impression that our people, particularly the rural poor and women, appreciate that their living conditions of today are better than those of yesterday.

However, Mr President, the area of Emalahleni and Chris Hani is a place for agriculture and yet these communities live in a sea of poverty. Insufficient resources to wipe out accumulated apartheid infrastructure and service backlogs, skills shortages in the Public Service and in municipalities, weaknesses in the planning and monitoring and co-ordination of government programmes, and the less than optimal functioning of intergovernmental relations …

… zezinye zezinto eziqhwalelisa ulawulo apha. [… are some of the issues crippling governance in this area.]

In the work that we have done and continue to do with these communities, we have come to realise that they are not amongst those …

… abahlala emakhaya belinde ukuba urhulumente uza kubazisela ntoni na. [… sitting at home waiting and wondering what services government will provide them.]

All they are asking for is that government should help them with tractors, the fencing of their ploughing fields and seeds. That is all, hon President. And they will roll up their sleeves and do the rest. [Applause.]

Is this, Mr President, in your view, too much to ask for? I really do not think so, but I think it will be essential for the rural Eastern Cape if we are to overcome hunger and disease and defeat poverty.

In conclusion, already, Mr President and hon members, in the reprioritisation programmes of provincial government aimed at speeding up service delivery over the remaining period of the current term of government, we have considered this reality and factored it into our plans.

All stakeholders in the province, including local government and traditional leaders, support the provincial government’s service delivery turnaround plan, and all we ask for now is the support of national government. The Eastern Cape, Mr President, has to change. The time to change, we believe, is now, and indeed, yes we can! Thank you very much. [Applause.]

The PREMIER OF GAUTENG (Mr P S Mashatile): His Excellency the President of the Republic of South Africa, Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Mninwa Mahlangu, hon members of the NCOP, delegates from the various provincial legislatures, Cabinet Ministers, hon premiers, Speakers and MECs, amakhosi wonke akhona la namhlanje [all the chiefs present here today], comrades and friends and the people of the Eastern Cape, let me also join the President and the Chairperson of the NCOP in congratulating the president-elect of the United States of America, Barack Obama. [Applause.]

In 2004 we entered into a contract with the people of South Africa to create work and fight poverty. The theme of today’s session, Empowering Communities for the Eradication of Poverty, is informed by the commitment we made to our people in 2004. It is, therefore, true that in order to win the fight against poverty and unemployment, we will have to empower communities. Together with them, we managed to grow the economy since 1994.

We have done this in the midst of the global economic meltdown. The South African economy has, however, been able to withstand the challenges of the international economy, and this is because of our stable macroeconomic policies. In our province, Gauteng, we are confident that we will indeed achieve 8% economic growth by 2014.

We believe that investing in infrastructure development is a major contribution by government to growing the economy. In Gauteng projects like the Gautrain remain critical to the growth of an economy that creates jobs. We are confident that by 2010 visitors to our country and province will have access to a world-class, efficient and integrated public transport system that incorporates rail, buses and taxis. The investment we are making in road infrastructure will help by alleviating congestion on our roads, thus reducing travelling time between destinations.

Owing to the work our government has been doing, many of our people have access to employment opportunities today through programmes such as the Expanded Public Works Programme and continued investment in the development of small, medium and micro enterprises. These programmes continue to assist with alleviating poverty, providing access to jobs and skills development.

To further increase the impact of these programmes, particularly the Expanded Public Works Programme, it would be appropriate for us to consider increasing the period spent by our people beyond the current agreed timeframes. This will assist our people to gain more skills in order to participate in the economy. Our people must have hope, and they must know that the ANC government cares about their conditions. [Applause.]

One of the key tasks that we have as government is to address the problem of informal settlements. In our province we have launched a programme of formalising all the informal settlements in the province. The objective of this programme is to ensure that many of our people have access to basic services such as electricity, water and sanitation facilities. In our fight against poverty, we will continue to ensure that we increase access to social security. In order to do this we will be launching the War Room on Poverty campaign, which is in support of the national antipoverty strategy.

The success of empowering our communities continues to depend on us implementing an integrated approach to development. This will also include implementing our rural development strategy. We must do so because many of our people move into urban areas with the hope of finding jobs and shelter.

Since 1994 we have improved access to quality health care and education. We have lifted the burden of school fees from the shoulders of many poor parents. Access to antiretroviral treatment for those who are infected with HIV and Aids is being extended. We are also marshalling resources to curb the spread of TB and other communicable diseases.

The ANC government has a firm belief that our people must live freely in their places of work and leisure and their homes. We believe, as we fight poverty and empower our people, that crime remains a priority that we must address. We will have to increase our efforts, working with all our people and the private sector. We must not be afraid to put in place tough laws to fight crime. [Applause.] We must strengthen community police forums in our communities and increase the number of patrols in our townships and suburbs.

The achievements we have reached since 2004 reflect our commitment to empowering the people. As we prepare for the 2009 election, the ANC government will go to our people knowing very well that we have remained true to our commitments. We have done so because of our firm belief in our guiding document, the Freedom Charter, that says, “The people shall govern”. [Applause.]

We are here today in the Eastern Cape talking to our people because this government belongs to them. One of the key tasks we have is to continue to strengthen intergovernmental relations. Working together as the three spheres of government we will be able to redirect resources for development. Through the NCOP and the present co-ordinating council, we have been able to ensure a co-ordinated intervention in the development of our communities. We must continue to strengthen our intergovernmental system, including this very body - the NCOP.

When we celebrate the centenary of the ANC in 2012, we will be able to demonstrate the successes we have had in bringing a better life to our people. [Applause.] I am confident that when we celebrate the centenary of the Freedom Charter in 2055, we will have realised the goals, the aspirations and the ideals contained in this noble document. [Applause.] The ANC government will not fail in the task of building a better life for all the people of South Africa. [Applause.]

Chairperson, I thank you very much for this opportunity to address this House. Ndiyabulela. [Thank you.] [Applause.]

Mr A WATSON: Chairperson, Your Excellency Mr President, hon Chairperson of the NCOP, hon premiers, hon members …

… agb kollegas, ander hooggeplaastes, dames en here … [… hon colleagues, other dignitaries, ladies and gentlemen …]

… molweni nonke, bahlekazi. [… I greet you all, hon members.]

Dumelang, bomme le bontate. [Greetings, ladies and gentlemen.]

Mina ke [As for me ], hon President, you know it’s an unwritten truth that you can always trust a man with a white beard. [Laughter.]

Ndithi ungamthemba utata onentshebe emhlophe. [I am saying you can trust a man with a white beard.]

I am very happy to see that you fall into that league. [Laughter.] Your actions and the stature that you have given to your position so far reinforce that belief, and I trust that you will justify that belief for the rest of your term.

Let me join those who have congratulated the president-elect of America, Senator Obama, and wish him well. Let me also say that, while we’re all so happy today, it’s such a great pity that from the government of this country nobody was able to meet with him and talk to him when he visited South Africa three years ago – that is really a pity. [Interjections.]

Some weeks ago in the NCOP I reiterated the fact that the DA supports the concept of Taking Parliament to the People, because we are charged by the Constitution to do oversight of the actions of provinces and local government in facilitating poverty eradication and a better life for all the people. I am also on record as acknowledging that the eradication of poverty is indeed the biggest challenge facing the government of this country and that Parliament has a very important role to oversee the empowerment of communities in this regard.

I also stated, however, that I have two serious reservations regarding these biannual visits and the events of this week have again reinforced my views. The first is that the week among the people of the provinces must not be turned into a massive rally of the ANC governing party. [Interjections.]

The ANC members can howl and shout as much as they like, but let me tell you that when a committee chairperson of the NCOP, charged with chairing a session on the impact of the structures and institutions set up by government on the lives of women, openly allows and encourages inputs with regard to structures of the ANC from this platform and adds insult to injury by offering party-political solutions, then the boundaries of impartiality are clearly transgressed.

Bayaniphambaza bantu bam, akuyiANC evakatsha la, amaqembu epalamente onke akhona la, anivakatsha onke, asiyoANC kuphela. [They are misleading you, fellow citizens. The ANC is not the only party present here today; all the political parties that are represented in Parliament are present here today.]

My second reservation is that we undertake these hit-and-run visits with laudable themes like ensuring … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Order, please!

Mr A WATSON: They’re wasting my time.

Mr R J TAU: Seeing that the debate today is on the address of the President, I feel that it is out of order for the member to turn this particular and important event into a party-political issue, promoting the DA in particular. [Applause.]

Mr A WATSON: That is not a point of order.

My second reservation is that we undertake these hit-and-run visits with laudable themes like Ensuring the Acceleration of Wealth; Building a Better Society; Deepening the Debate on Transformation; Parliament Empowering Communities for Poverty Eradication; and now Empowering Communities for Poverty Eradication through the Intergovernmental System. But we do not follow up to ensure that the inconsistencies unveiled are corrected or check whether the promises made have been kept, and I am so pleased that the hon President has also referred to that.

I know that the Chairperson of the NCOP has acknowledged those shortcomings on many occasions, but, with respect, that is just not good enough. We need to implement corrective measures if we really wish to give substance to all those wonderful ideas.

Akuncedi ukunityelela, sinixelele ukuba siza kulungisa izinto, ze singabuyi size kubona ukuba zilungisiwe na. [It does not help to visit you and tell you that we are going to put things right, and yet not come back to see if that has actually happened.]

Listening to the people again this week, just as on previous visits across the length and breadth of the country, it was obvious that government has failed dismally with regard to poverty eradication by whatever means. It’s no good, hon premier, to boast about the newly surfaced tar road that Mr Gwede Mantashe will be travelling on when you are only now embarking on building access roads to schools and pension payout points in the far-flung communities in this area. You can shout as much as you like! Thank you. [Time expired.] Nksz B N DLULANE: Mandibulele, Sihlalo osiphethele lo mcimbi ubaluleke kangaka. Mongameli welizwe, sikuvile, kwaye siyakubulisa siyile Ndlu. Nkulumbuso, Tata uSogoni, sikuvile; siyakubulisa kananjalo. Somlomo, siyakubona ukhona kweli khaya lakho.

Malungu, nkosi nabantu bakho, ngqanga neentsiba zayo, andizi kukwazi ukuba ndithi kule mizuzwana imbalwa kangaka ndigxininise kule nto agqiba ukuyithetha lo tata usandul’ ukusuka apha, kodwa ndifuna ukuthi xa sime apha masinyaniseke.

Kaloku tata, uyazi ukuba size kuqukumbela le nkqubo namhlanje. Ukususela ngonyaka wama-2002 siwajikeleze onke amaphondo; sasiqale kweli phondo size kuqumbela le nkqubo kulo namhlanje. Kwaye uyazi ukuba emva koko siye salandelisa kuwo onke amaphondo esathi saya kuwo. SasiseMthatha, eMpuma Koloni, ngowama-2002; zange khe singabuyi.

Njengokuba ndime apha namhlanje, ndinombono wokwaqhubekayo ngowe-1955, njengoko ndandingekazalwa ngaloo nyaka. Mandinikhumbuze, bantu abagcwelise kule Ndlu, ukuba silapha ukuza kuzalisekisa izibhambathiso esazenza kuMqulu waMalungelo, i-Freedom Charter. Niyandiva na? [Uwele-wele.]

Kwatshiwo kuMqulu waMalungelo ukuba abantu baya kulawula. Siselulawulweni nje ngokuba silapha nje. Yiyo loo nto size kuva izimvo zenu malunga nokuba, kule minyaka elishumi elinesihlanu idlulileyo, yintoni esinenzele yona.

Nizitshilo izinto esinenzele zona kwanezo nithi sisilela kuzo. Okoko silapha, Mongameli, ukususela ngoMvulo; sihamba sijikeleza, abanye behleli apha. Bathi ke abantu baseMalahleni bayazibona izinto e sizenzileyo singurhulumente, kodwa bayakhala ngamanzi, ngokukasihlalo weli phondo, endisuka kulo nam phofu. Sithe xa sikhangela, safumanisa ukuba ama-75 ekhulwini abantu balapha noko abanawo amanzi. Asiyifihli ke loo nto, kwaye yingxaki.

Ithini ke into, Mongameli? Sithi sileli bhunga sihamba nawe; sikhokele. Masiphinde indlela size kujonga la madama asisililo kule ndawo kuthiwa yiDwafu, kwanokuba singenza njani na ukuze la manzi akula madama sibe nokuwasebenzisela unkcenkcesho.

Zizikhalo zabantu ke ezo, Mongameli. Abatsho ukuba khange senze nto; koko bathi asikagqibi. Yiyo ke le nto silapha namhlanje singurhulumente wabantu.

Ikhona ke, Mongameli, nenye into abasixelele yona, ngexa wena ubungekho, usathumele ezi ngqeqana zisithi. Kuthiwa apha lo mhlaba utyebile, kodwa kuyabonakala ukuba ukhukuliseko lomhlaba lungawuphazamisa. Amagosa aseburhulumenteni aphantsi kwakho, Mongameli, ebe lapha ukususela ngoMvulo kwade kwayizolo, kwaye aphendulile apha namhlanje. Asikuko ukuba, kuba wena uqala ukufika apha namhlanje, khange wona abe lapha. IPalamente yonke kwakunye nooceba bonke bavile.

Mongameli, kuthiwa apha ngabantu baseMalahleli, hayi noko, zikhona izinto esele sizenzile ngokubhekisele kuphuhliso. Kodwa bayacela ukuba sikhe sibancedise ukuze baphinde batyale.

Ihamba ke le nqaphuzane iye kuthi gaa phaya kulaa manzi namadama abakhala ngawo. Siza kuba ngathi siphinda–phinda into enye. Ngokukhokelwa nguwe, Mongameli, thina singuKhongolozi - thina bantwana bagxalaba libanzi - size kuthi silapha nanamhlanje. [Kwaqhwatywa.]

Mongameli, zikhona izikolo ezihle, mntanenkosi, zikhona ezibi. Ndiyavuya kuba okaQwase, ohloniphekileyo, uthembisile ngokubhekisele kwezi zikolo zibi. Nqununu yaseFreemantle, hayi, mntanenkosi, ungaphinde uziphalaze iinyembezi. Ndiyamazi uTata uMzizi, akazi kungayithethi le nto bendihambe naye nje, kuba liLungu lePalamente elithembekileyo.

Ulilile phambi kwethu utata waseFreemantle, esithi mabancediswe, echaza nezinto ezenzekileyo. Senzile, kodwa makhe siphinde; akukuhlanga. Isakhiwo sihle, nakwezinye izikolo ezifana nooNompucuko.

Siya kude siphucuke naso ke esi sikolo ndisikhankanyileyo. Kambe sele ikho into eyenzekileyo ke esifike sayifumanisa phaya - kwabangakhange beve - yokuba uye wakhawuleza uTata uHlubi, obesele eneenyanga ezintathu engene kwisikhundla sakhe. UMphathiswa ukhe wathumela iSebe leMisebenzi yoLuntu kwesi sikolo.

SiyiPalamente nekomiti yemisebenzi yoluntu, kubandakanywa nawe Tat’ uMzizi, siza kukhe siye kukhalazela into esiyifumanise phaya kwesiya sikolo. Batshilo abantu ukuba lifikile igosa leSebe leMisebenzi yoLuntu, kodwa hayi uMphathiswa, lathi: “Hayi, sisikolo esi.” Esa sikolo senziwe ngento ekuthiwa yipre-fab; abantwana ubabala ngoku ume apha.

Kambe sithi yimingeni le; asoyiki ukuba ibe sithi abazithethayo ezi zinto kuqala, zingekathethwa ngabanye abantu, mhlawumbi ke bona abangalukhathalelanga uphuhliso; abaze kugxeka bengazanga kuncedisa. Mnye ke urhulumente ophetheyo, ngulo ukhokelwe nguTata uMotlanthe. [Uwele-wele.] Ikwangulo rhulumente ukhokelwa nguKhongolozi oza kuthi naxa kuphinda kubuywa kuze kujongwa, akhuphe kuye epokothweni. [Uwele-wele.]

Xa ndiza kuya kutshona ndisithele, sivile ngezinye iingxaki esinazo. Kwaye le nto ibithethwa, kuliliselwa ngayo, yokokuba size apha kuba kusondele unyulo, asiyo nyani. Tata uWatson, waseMatatiyele, ulingqina lethu.

Kodwa xa ndime apha, andizanga kukhankasa; andazi ukuba ndiza kukhankasa ndithini. Ndize kuchaza ngeenkqubo zikarhulumente; izinto esiziphumezileyo nesingakwazanga kuziphumeza. Ndiyalazi ixesha lam lokugaya iivoti. Kwakukhala abantu; ndimele i-ANC ke mna apha. [Uwele-wele.]

Bachazile ke abantu balapha, kwakunye nenkosi, okokuba zikhona izinto esizenzileyo. Mntan’ enkosi, mntan’ egazi, siziindlebe sonke; siziphawule zonke ezi zinto ubuzicela nabantu bakho. Siza kuhamba, senjenje, senjenje, senjenjeya!

Xa ndiza kuya ekuvaleni, kukho abantu abathi musani ukuya kuvota. Thina sithe sakube siphethe nafumana ilungelo lokuvota okokuqala, emva kweminyaka engama-46 siphethwe ngurhulumente wengcinezelo. Namhlanje sithi phindani niye kwenjenjalo.

Ngomso nangeCawe, ze niphume nithi bhazalala, nihambe niye kuzijonga ukuba nisabhalisile na. Ukuba awubhalisanga, okanye ukuba ucinga ukuba uya kube useKapa - singamagoduka kaloku; siya eGoli kuwe, mnta’ kaMashatile, siye phaya eNtshona Koloni ukuya kufuna imisebenzi. Zange baziphucule iindawo esihlala kuzo iminyaka engama-46. Nihambe niye kubhalisa. [Laphela ixesha.] [Time expired.] (Translation of isiXhosa speech follows.)

[Ms B N DLULANE: Let me say thank you, Chairperson, for presiding on this important occasion. We have heard you, Mr President, and we greet you as this House. Premier, Mr Sogoni, we have heard you and we also greet you. Hon Speaker, we acknowledge your presence at this venue, which is in your province.

Members, Chief and your people - protocol observed - I will not be able to dwell much on what has been said by the previous speaker owing to time constraints, but I would like to say that we must be honest when addressing the House.

As you know, sir, we are here today to round up our visit here. We have visited all provinces since 2002. We started off in this very same province where today we are concluding our visit. And you also know that we had follow-up visits to all the provinces we had visited. We were in Mthatha in the Eastern Cape, in 2002; we never fail to go back on a follow-up visit.

As I am standing here today, I can only imagine what took place in 1955 in Kliptown, given that I was not yet born then. Let me remind you in this House that we are here to fulfil the declarations stipulated in the Freedom Charter. Do you hear me? [Interjections.]

It was stated in the Freedom Charter that the people shall govern. We are here because we are in power. This is basically the reason we are here, to hear your views on what we have done for you in the past 15 years.

You have mentioned the things we have done for you and those you feel are outstanding. Mr President, we have been here since Monday, going around whilst others remained here. The people of Emalahleni have stated that they take note of the things we have done as government, but, according to the chairperson of the province - which happens to be my province too - they are complaining about the lack of water. In our investigations, we have discovered that 75% of the people here do not have access to water. That is not a secret, and it is a problem.

So what is the position, Mr President? As this council, we stand foursquare behind you; lead us. Let us go back and take a look at the dams that are the cause of an outcry in the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, Dwaf, and see how the water in these dams can be utilised for irrigation purposes.

Mr President, these are the complaints from the people. They are not saying that we have done nothing, but that we have not yet completed the job at hand. This is why we are here today, as the people’s government.

Whilst you were not here, Mr President, there was also something that the people mentioned to us, your juniors. They mentioned that they have fertile soil here, but that obviously soil erosion is a problem. Officials from the President’s Office were here from Monday until yesterday, and they answered some questions here today. It is not as if they came because you are here today. The whole of Parliament and all the councillors have heard.

Mr President, the people of Emalahleni acknowledge the things we have done as far as development is concerned, but they appeal for assistance so that they can be able to cultivate their land again.

All this goes back to the problem of water and dams that they are complaining about. Please bear with me for sounding like a broken record. Through your leadership, Mr President, as the ANC - the people’s organisation - we declare our commitment to the people. [Applause.]

Mr President, there are beautiful schools and there are also shabby ones around here. I am glad that hon Qwase has promised to do something about the shabby schools. To the principal of Freemantle, please wipe away those tears. I know Mr Mzizi; he is a trustworthy Member of Parliament and he will mention this in Parliament. I was with him when we visited the schools.

The principal of Freemantle really poured his heart out to us, pleading for assistance and also describing the things that have happened. We did a bit, but there is a lot more that still needs to be done; all is not well out there. The school building is nice, as are the buildings housing other schools such as Nompucuko.

Things will improve even at the school that I have mentioned. Already, we have picked up that there are developments in this regard - for the benefit of those who were not aware – and that Mr Qwase, who has been in his position for three months, has speeded things up. The MEC sent representatives of the Department of Public Works to that school.

As Parliament and the committee on Public Works, we, including Mr Mzizi, will lodge a complaint with regard to what we discovered in that school. People mentioned that an official from the Department of Public Works, not the Minister, visited the school and said: “This is indeed a nice school.” That school is made of pre-fabs and the numbers have gone up; you count and count.

However, we consider these challenges; we are not afraid to be the first to admit that, before others do who are not even concerned with development but are more concerned with criticism and not lending a hand. There is only one government here and it is the one led by Mr Motlanthe. [Interjections.] It is the very same ANC-led government that will provide money when we come back on a follow-up visit. [Interjections.]

In conclusion, we have also heard about other challenges. And the allegation that we came here only because of the forthcoming elections is a lie. Mr Watson, from Matatiele, you can vouch for us.

I am not here to campaign; I do not know what I am going to say when I campaign. I am here to give clarity on government’s programmes - things we have accomplished and those we could not accomplish. I know when to campaign; and when I do, you will not like it. I am here on behalf of the ANC. [Interjections.]

People have acknowledged, including the chief, that we have notched up some achievements here. Chief, we are all ears; we have taken note of all the things you and your subjects have asked for. We will go back and consider them.

In conclusion, there are people who discourage you from voting. When we came to power, you earned your right to vote for the first time, after 46 years under the apartheid government. Today we urge you to go and vote.

Tomorrow and on Sunday you must all go to check if you are registered. If you are not registered or if you think that you will be in Cape Town … Indeed, we migrate to Gauteng, for instance - your city, Mr Mashatile - and to the Western Cape in search of jobs. The apartheid government never developed our areas for 46 years. So please go and register. [Time expired.]]

Nksz W THUSI (KwaZulu-Natala): Enkosi kakhulu mama osesihlalweni, Mama u- Oliphant. Mongameli welizwe lethu laseMzantsi Afrika, Tata uMotlanthe, Sihlalo wale Ndlu ihloniphekileyo, Tata uMahlangu … Ndikhahlela kuKumkani uMatanzima - Ah Zwelenkosi! Kwiinkosi zomthonyama ezikhoyo apha, abefundisi nabantu bonke basebaThenjini, ndiyanibulisa.

Ndifuna ukuqala ndicelele uxolo iNkulumbuso yam, uTata uSbu Ndebele. Ebefanele ukuba lapha, kodwa akakwazanga kuba kukho ezinye iingxaki ezimbambileyo. Ndiyavuya ngokufumana ithuba lokuza kuthetha kweli lasebaThenjini, apho inkaba yam yawa khona. Ndigodukile. NdinguMaGatyeni, uNdondela, uMamali. Inkaba yam yawela kuKomani kwaMlungisi.

Kambe, phambi kokuba ndithi ngokukhawuleza ndibikele le Ndlu ukuba senzani KwaZulu-Natala, ndifuna ukugqitha kuTata uWatson lowa kuqala. Ndimvile esithi i-DA iyayixhasa iPalamente xa isiya ebantwini. Asiyo nyani le uyitshoyo, tata. Thina KwaZulu- Natala siyaya ebantwini siyipalamente, kodwa i-DA ihlala isilwa nathi isithi simosha imali. Namhlanje uyandothusa xa usithi niyahambisana nokusiwa kwePalamente ebantwini; asiyo nyani leyo.

Enye into, Tata uWatson, yiPalamente, ngamalungu ePalamente, ngurhulumente lo uze ebantwini; asiyondibano yasesidlangalaleni yamahala ye-DA le. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Ms W THUSI (KwaZulu-Natal): Thank you very much, Chairperson, Mrs Oliphant. President Motlanthe, Chairperson of this honourable House, hon Mahlangu, I salute King Matanzima - Hail, Zwelenkosi! Traditional leaders present here, religious leaders and the Thembu community, I greet you.

Firstly, I would like to tender an apology on behalf of Premier Sbu Ndebele. He was supposed to be here, but could not make it. There are other urgent matters that he has to attend to. I am glad to get this opportunity to come and speak to the people of Thembuland, where I was born. My umbilical cord is buried in this region. I have returned home. I belong to the Gatyeni, Ndondela, Mamali clan. I was born at kwaMlungisi in Queenstown.

Before I start reporting to this honourable House on what we have been doing in KwaZulu-Natal, I would like to comment on what hon Watson has said. I have been listening to him saying that the DA supports Taking Parliament to the People. That is not true, sir. We, in KwaZulu-Natal, take parliament to the people, but the DA always criticises this venture as mismanagement of public funds. Today I am shocked to learn that the DA supports it; that is not true.

One other thing I would like hon Watson to note is that Taking Parliament to the People entails Members of Parliament and the government coming to the people. Therefore, this is not a free DA rally.]

I am going to give a report on the gains we have made as the province of KwaZulu-Natal … asikulibali ukuthi sisenazo izinqginamba esinazo njengesifundazwe. Kodwa kukhona okunye okuhle esesikwenzile. [… not forgetting that we still have challenges as a province. However, there is also a lot of good work that we have achieved.]

First on the list of our achievements by the ANC or under the ANC-led government from 2004 in KwaZulu-Natal is peace and stability.

Niyakwazi nonke lapha ukuthi indawo yethu ibikhungethwe wudlame oluyisimangaliso. Alukho manje sikhuluma ngentuthuko nje. [You all know that our province experienced extreme political violence. That is no longer the case; we are talking about development now.]

I want to give a summary of the progress made by the different government clusters in our province. I will start with the government and administration cluster which is chaired by our premier. I am going to start with skills development and learnerships. We have established a Provincial Public Service Training Academy where from April to August we trained about 1393 public servants.

Nikhumbule ukuba ngexesha lalaa rhulumente wakudala abantu ababesebenza kwiNkonzo yasebuRhulumenteni yayingabaphathi bethu; namhlanje sina le nto kuthiwa nguBatho Pele. Siyafuna ke ukubakhumbuza qho. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[You must remember that during the apartheid government the people in the Public Service were our superiors. Today we have what is known as Batho Pele. We like to remind them thereof.]

We have R7,5 million allocated to Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, learnerships and 175 learners on the programme. The Department of Labour has funded us with an amount of R19,7 million allocated to 482 learnerships in construction, manufacturing, engineering, transport and logistics.

We have 604 learners in the National Youth Service; the Masifundisane project is a partnership between the premier and the Department of Education. A literacy programme is in progress. In the National Youth Service Programme youths are trained in technical skills to unit standards that are at NQF Level 3 and this is implemented throughout the province. Ten per cent of the youth in the programme will be absorbed by the department of works to implement the skills acquired. Qualifying youth will be awarded bursaries to further their training. About 178 young people started undergoing training in bricklaying and plastering in January.

The update of the province-wide Human Resource Development Strategy has been completed. We have filled most of our vacant posts and we will meet the target that says women should comprise 50%of the Senior Management Service, SMS. We are now at 32% and by March 2009 we will be there.

With regard to anticrime and anticorruption issues, the government held a summit where we invited all the stakeholders to take part - communities, the religious sector, business professionals and all other people who were involved.

We also have a comprehensive strategy to deal with provincial disaster management.

Njengoba benizwa sinama “disasters” amaningi asesihlasela kakhulu manje. [As you have heard, numerous disasters have stricken our province.]

I now come to the economic cluster, which is led by the chairperson, the MEC for finance and economic development, uKhabazela uZweli Mkhize. For shared growth and the second economy, a turnaround strategy to improve operating systems and service delivery to small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs, and co-operatives is in place and is being implemented. The department of economic development has a contract with Absa, Standard Bank and Ithala Development Bank to fund the SMMEs and co-operatives. A total amount of R51 million has been made available to fund the SMMEs and co-operatives. The department of public works – the Masakhe Emerging Contractor Development Programme - has captured on its database 2 500 emerging contractors.

With regard to the programme to promote commercialisation of agriculture at the lowest level, planting support over the last year resulted in the production of, amongst other things, 258 655 tons of sugar, maize, dry beans, vegetables, soya and bananas. An amount of R40 million has been budgeted for massification projects. One hundred and seventy amakhosi have been trained to promote the production of surplus products for commercial purposes and this programme has been launched. The business implementation plan for the commercialisation of goats was completed in September 2008 and R45 million has been set aside to address emergency repairs to the Makhathini irrigation scheme.

Kude phansi ekupheleni kwezwe lethu “iBorder” yaseMozambique eMkhanyakude. [This is far away, on the border between our country and Mozambique, at Mkhanyakude.]

With regard to strategy and pilot projects for increased food security in communal rural areas, free vegetable seeds at 41 agricultural district offices benefit 979 000 people. Seed, fertilisers and implement packs are to benefit 245 650 households.

As regards the water strategy, we are working with the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, Dwaf, and they have given us R385 million for infrastructure over the current MTEF. The provincial water purification plant programme was launched and eight plants are operational, with each plant producing 50 000 litres per hour. With regard to the energy strategy, a provincial energy forum has been established to monitor the supply and demand and facilitate initiatives. District energy forums have also been established as substructures of the provincial energy forum.

As regards tourism, tour guide training is available and we have signed a memorandum of understanding between our department, KZN Ezemvelo and Tourism KwaZulu-Natal to continue with tour guide training. We have completed a skills development programme done through the International Hotel School, and B&B owners are on a mentorship programme. This month we began youth training in six further education and training, FET, colleges on tourism skills development programmes. We have a programme to train tourism ambassadors, and volunteers who are helping our tourists in the province, and the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism has also promised to assist us in intensifying the training. The social cluster is chaired by the MEC for education, Ms Ina Cronjé. We have social skills development; early childhood development practitioners at the NQF 4 level; technical and administration skills; training offered by the health department; professional skills; resources have been sent to poor schools; and 300 schools were added to the original 150 schools participating in Qids-Up, a programme aimed at providing equipment and learning materials to poor schools. Over 100 schools were connected to the Internet and 483 disadvantaged schools were provided with sports equipment to the value of R40 000 each. Job opportunities are plentiful and co- operatives are being used. [Time expired.]

Mnu M A MZIZI: Sihlalo angibonge ukuthi unginike lelithuba lokuthi nami ngiveze owami umbono nezinto engizibonile. Angibingelele kuSihlalo, kuMkhandlu Kazwelonke Wezifundazwe, nakuMongameli. Ubesekhulumile uzakwethu lapha, ekuhambeleni kwethu kwezikole noma ngingasekho kulelo komidi kodwa ngibe sengithatha umkhumbi oya eTarishishi ngoba owami obuya eNiniva ubusungishiyile. [Uhleko.]

Kuyiqiniso ukuthi siye safika laphaya eFreemantle Boys High School, empeleni uthishanhloko wehlise izinyembezi, angisho koNgqonqoshe ababili kaZwelonke nowesiFundazwe, nakuye uNgqongqoshe woMnyango Wezemisebenzi Yomphakathi ngithi lezo zinyembezi azingapheleli ezihlathini ngoba umuntu omdala akakhali ngoba efuna ukukhala, ubengakhali ngoba ekhuluma ngomuzi wakhe.

Kukhona izinto esiye safika sazibona laphaya ezenzekayo futhi nezingekho, usilingi uyawa, upende okwakupende ngawo ezidongeni uya phihlika futhi induna egada izingane ezihlala esikoleni kayisekho laphaya, emahostela akusahlaleki ngoba sekukwampunzi idla emini, awekho amaphoyisa agadayo. Ubani wonke lowo ongawenzi lowo msebenzi wakhe? Mamo! NguMnyango Wezemisebenzi Yomphakathi. Kwenzekile ukuthi uma siselapho saphinde sahambela esinye isikole okuthiwa yiNompucuko, ngiyabona ngathi ngithanda onobuhle. [Uhleko.] Lapho kukhulunywa khona ukuthi uNompucuko, abamhlophe bathi… (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mr M A MZIZI: Thank you, Chairperson, for giving me this opportunity to air my views about issues I have witnessed. I greet the Chairperson, the House of the National Council of Provinces and the President. My colleague has already spoken here about our school visits. Since I am no longer on that committee, I boarded a ship bound for Tarshish as I had missed my ship to Ninevah. [Laughter.]

It is indeed true that we went to Freemantle Boys’ High School. As a matter of fact, the principal cried, and I want to state to both national and provincial Ministers of Education as well as the Minister of Public Works that those tears should not be in vain, for a grown-up does not cry just for the sake of it; he did not cry because he was talking about his household.

When we arrived there, we saw that many things are missing. The ceiling was falling apart, the paint on the walls was peeling away, and the security guard who was looking after the pupils boarding at the school is no longer there. And life in hostels is unbearable because everyone does as he pleases; there are no security officers guarding the place. And who is not doing his work in this case? Gee whizz! It is the Department of Public Works! It happened that whilst we were there, we visited another school by the name of Nompucuko, and it seems I have a soft spot for beauties. [Laughter.] When Nompucuko, the mother of civilisation is mentioned, white people say …]

… die ding lyk mooi van ver, maar as jy nader kom, dan lyk hy ver van mooi! [From a distance an object might appear beautiful, but when you get closer, then it no longer appears beautiful!]

Indaba engifuna ukunitshela yona ukuthi isikhathi sami sincane, ayikho impucuko. Ngiyanibona boNgqongqoshe bezeMfundo ngoba nenzile ukuthi kubekhona isikole lapho, kodwa-ke uMnyango Wezemisebenzi Yomphakathi wona awenzanga lutho.

Futhi ngabe kungcono nje ukube lezo zingane zifundela esihlahleni, akukho mawindi nezivalo futhi izindonga zakhiwe ngama-prefab. Uma uhamba laphayana ngaphandle kwesikole, hhayi ngaphakathi ungazibona izinyawo zezingane ukuthi kuhlezi abantu lapha, ubiza lokhu ngokuthi yisikole! Njengoba kuzobhalwa izivivinyo, kuleziya zintuli ebezikhona lapho ngingakhoni kwamina ukuhamba kuzo, ngabe zizobhala kanjani lezo zingane? Ngenxa yokuthi nginesikhathi esincane nje angizukuba yingxenye ethi, lezo zikole ezisohlwini lokuthi zizolungiswa ngithi nami ngizibandakanya nalokho.

NgoMsombuluko lo, hambani niyofaka amafasitela, Mnyango Wezemisebenzi Yomphakathi! Hambani niyofaka izivalo. [Ubuwelewele.] Sesingalubona ucingo, izindlu zangasese angikhulumi ngazo ngoba uma bephathekile othisha nezingane bathi galo yephuka baye ehlathini. Angeke kwenzeke umuntu ahambe eyedwa kufuneka bahambe ngababili noma ngabathathu. Kulimala izingane ngoba akubikhona umuntu ofundisayo. Hayi bo!

Asisukusinisa amahleza, cha, mina ngithi sizophinda sibuye sesaphindela kwezinye izifundazwe. Angisho ukuthi sizobuya kusasa kodwa ngithi uma ngifika lesiya sikole, iNompucuko ngisifuna sinamafasitela nezivalo.

Besize lapha ngoba sizokhuluma nokulwisa indlala. Mina-ke ngikhuluma nokulwisa indlala, indlala yemfundo, isomiso sokomela imfundo, akube yilokho ebengikusho ngoba izingane zilambile zifuna imfundo. Yiso-ke isitha esikhulu esilwa naso imfundo ngoba laba bantwana umgogodla wethu wakusasa, seniyabona thina amathunzi ayewuka. [Kwaphela isikhathi.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[What I want to tell you is that I have limited time, and that there is no development. Whilst I understand that you - Ministers of Education - have made it possible to have a school in the area, the same cannot be said about the Department of Public Works.

In fact, it would be better if those children were just being taught under a tree. There are no windows, no doors and the walls are prefabs. If you walk outside the school, not inside, you can see children’s feet from the outside and yet you call that a school!

As the time for examinations is around the corner, what about the dust I saw which made it impossible for me to walk around, and what about pupils who have to write exams there? And because my time is limited, I might as well say now that I support those who say that those schools are on the maintenance list and that they will be repaired.

To the Department of Public Works I say, go and install windows, this Monday and again, this very coming Monday, go install doors! [Interjections.] Well, we will consider things like fencing and toilets later because at least when nature calls for teachers, they run at an incredibly high speed to the nearby bushes. And even there, they do not go alone, they have to be two or three. And the pupils suffer here because this practically means there is no teacher to teach. Gee whizz!

Let us not play childish games here. Well, what I am saying is that we will come back to this province; we first have to visit other provinces. I am not saying that we will come back tomorrow but I am saying that I want that school - Nompucuko - to be have windows and doors when I come back.

We came here to talk about fighting hunger. And I am chiefly talking about fighting hunger: hunger for education, thirst for education. I propose that what I have just said should be put into practice because children are hungry for education. And that is the main enemy that we are fighting – the lack of education - because these children are our future and as you can see, we are in our twilight years. [Time expired.]]

Cllr Z CAPA (Salga): Madam Chair, Chair and Deputy Chair of the NCOP, His Excellency, all premiers from our provinces, the Premier of the Eastern Cape, members of the NCOP, Speakers present …

… indlu yeenkosi, phantsi kwesandla sikaTata uMatanzima, ubukumkani belizwe labantu bakowethu obukhonya kule ndawo … […the house of traditional leaders, under the leadership of Chief Matanzima, whose chieftaincy prevails in this area …]

… all Whips, tat’uSigabi and all councillors, ward councillors, members of the Council of Churches and …

… nabo bonke abantu abathabatha inxaxheba ekuncediseni abantu bakuthi apho bahlala khona … [… all the people who participated in efforts to help our people at local level …]

… and the House at large, we actually appreciate the opportunity, offered to us as Salga, to address the House today and at least share our views on the work that we do every day.

We indeed want to share our concrete, experiential learning that takes place through the interaction with our people on a daily basis. On behalf of Salga, we also wish to acknowledge the participation we have been offered by the NCOP, which also includes, to be specific, the opportunity for district mayors to be invited to a public hearing by the NCOP to give an account of the state of basic services, particularly water services.

I hope the information we gave and the report that was given there will be taken and used, along with the requirement to update such reports, so that we can see whether we are going forward or backwards.

Ndifuna nokutsho ukuba xa kuthethwa ngamanzi, tata uMongameli, tat’ uSihlalo neNdlu ngokubanzi, tat’ uKumkani, nendlu yonke nabantu, kuthethwa ngamanzi amakaye kufika ebantwini ephuma etepini. Eyona ngxaki sinayo thina kwinqanaba labantu ekuhlaleni, kukuba kuthethwa nge … (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[Hon President, hon Chairperson and the House at large, hon King and the people, I also want to indicate that when the issue of water is raised, basically it is about tap water. Our biggest problem is that at grass-roots level people talk about …]

… reticulation, more than the water infrastructure.

Thina ke sanyuka nengalo, kuba sathatha ilizwe ebelingenazo iziseko zamanzi. [Yet we went a step further, as we inherited a country that had no water infrastructure.]

There is also the challenge of the water table apha ngaphantsi komhlaba [underground].

So it is not easy to say …

… amanzi ahamba phaya aza kujikwa angene apha, kuba … […the water that flows there will be diverted here, because…]

… there is a process, and it’s a long process.

Siyanqwena ukuba esi sikolo samanzi singene nalapha ezikolweni nakwabanye abantu kuba abantu bacinga ukuba kuthethwa ngamanzi amawanikwe abantu; akuthethwa ngeziseko zamanzi ezingazange zibe kho kweli lizwe. Ngaphezu koko, kusekwathethwa ngomgangatho wamanzi kwanomgangatho womoya. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[We wish that the water awareness programme could also be taken to the schools and to the community because people think of water as the basic water supply, without regard for the issue of water infrastructure, which did not exist in this country previously. Above all, questions are also raised about the quality of our water and also of our air.]

It’s a serious programme and it means billions. Billions! The last time we spoke with …

… utata obenguMongameli ngaphambili, uTata uThabo Mbeki, oomasipala, …[… former President Thabo Mbeki, and the municipalities…]

… an amount of more than R1 billion was bandied about, but the O R Tambo District Municipality is now talking about R4 billion.

IChris Hani ibisandul’ ukuthetha ngesixa-mali esingamawaka ezigidi eziyi- 1,8 ngokubhekisele kumcimbi wokusilelayo kwiziseko zamanzi nogutyulo lwelindle.[The Chris Hani District Municipality recently indicated that an amount of R1,8 billion was required to address water and sewerage infrastructure backlogs.]

The issue of water should be a campaign, and not a programme or a project, and everyone else…

… kufanele eze ngaphambili kuze kuthethwa ngamanzi. Amanzi abalulekile. Xa ndigqithela phambili, amava ethu asibonisa ukuba … [… must come forward so that we can talk about water. Water is very important. Furthermore, our experience shows that …]

… it’s been a long time. I think this is my seventh year working as a councillor. Clearly, if there is no attempt to employ managers at whatever level, we are just playing games.

Kuyaphasalaka phaya. Uceba wewadi uyinto yonke, kanti akana ofisi. Akukho zixhobo zokusebenza. [Kwaqhwatywa.] [Things are falling apart there. The ward councillor is everything, yet the councillor does not have an office. The necessary equipment is not there. [Applause.]]

There are no community assets. I mean, if you talk about agriculture, it won’t assist …

… ukunika laa mbutho ungekho phantsi kukarhulumente kunye nala nkosi iteletele. […to give a nongovernmental organisation and a chief a tractor.]

It does not translate into a community asset.

Mna ndicinga ukuba makube kho iofisi yewadi enemanejala yewadi ukuze uceba wewadi athabathe inxaxheba kwezopolitiko, ayeke ukumana esiba ngumsebenzi kwimicimbi yolawulo. Kufuneka kube kho umsebenzi kwimicimbi yolawulo … [Kwaqhwatywa] … ukuze nalo msebenzi kuphuhliso loluntu, i-CDW, abe nendawo avuka aye kusayina kuyo ukubonakalisa ukuba ebezile emsebenzini. [Uwele-wele.] Kungenjalo siyadlala nje phaya.

Lo mcimbi we-IDP awusincedisanga ukuba nje kucingwa ukuba uMgaqo-siseko ubeka lo msebenzi emagxeni karhulumente wasekhaya. Abanye abantu banento yokufuna ukuzisa izicwangciso zabo kuthi bengadibenanga nabantu bokuhlala. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[I think there must be a ward office with a ward manager, so that the ward councillor can participate in politics and cease to work on administrative issues. There must be an employee to take care of administrative issues… [Applause.] … so that a community development worker can have someone to report to who will monitor the worker. [Interjections.] Otherwise we are just playing games there.

This integrated development plan, IDP, issue has not helped us if there is an understanding that the Constitution gives full responsibility for this work to the local government. Some people have a tendency of trying to impose their plans on us, without having consulted the local people.]

And it can’t translate into integrated development planning when you plan in the province; you plan nationally and you give us a finished product and say …

… ndiza kwakha isikolo phaya. Ndiza kwakha ikliniki phaya. [… I will build a school there. I will build a clinic there… ]

… which was not there. But what I don’t know, and what all the other local government practitioners – even the premiers - don’t know, when we are talking about orphans, is: where are they, how many are there, what are their names?

In the event that we plan without the necessary information, ward-based information systems planning should be a priority for all of us. [Applause.]

Where are these senior citizens we are seeking to provide for? I would like to see the district municipalities being able to say to the Department of Education that in 2008 there are so many teachers in Ward 1 and in all our wards, there are so many principals and so many heads of department and, it must please budget for them. I would like to see a system, regarding those young South Africans who are 17 years old, whereby the computer in the ward highlights them for Home Affairs to be able to know that, come their 18th birthday, their IDs will be ready for them without them having to stand in a queue.

I would like to see, Comrade President, a situation where, if one gets a grant at 60 years of age, when you are 59 a computer in a district municipality actually reflects that so that you are budgeted for and, come your birthday, you will get your grant without those queues. [Applause.]

The information systems gap, the so-called digital gap, is killing us! We can’t run this big country by actually walking around. We will be managing by walking, I assure you, but further than that, I want to say, in the absence of that system, a system that will be talking from the district municipality to the province and to various departments, we will not be able to do more.

We are piloting that in O R Tambo, but we don’t have money. But it is proving to be able to tell us who is an orphan, where that person is and what happened. And if in O R Tambo you give me your ID number and I enter it into that system, it gives me all the cellular numbers in your home, who earns what, where that home is, who the neighbour is, etc. I can then tell you, “That person is there and you can send their money to them there.”

However, I also want to say that local government does not accumulate any institutional memory, because after five years all the councillors are gone and all 57 managers are gone; so there is always the excuse of a learning curve. Some are even made to leave before that.

I want to agree fully with the President that Salga doesn’t have a voice. Salga is made not to have a voice because of the environment in which it works. [Time expired.]

Ms M COLEMAN (Mpumalanga): Chairperson, His Excellency the President of the Republic, the Chairperson of the NCOP, the Deputy Chairperson and hon members of the NCOP, hon premiers and colleagues in the executive councils from various provinces, executive mayors of Emalahleni Local Municipality and Chris Hani District Municipality, traditional leaders present here, community members, members of the media, ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to have the opportunity to participate in this debate this morning.

On behalf of the Mpumalanga government I wish to express our sincere appreciation for being able to be part of this important parliamentary session. At the same time I want to apologise on behalf of the premier, Mr Makwetla, who cannot be with us today due to other pressing commitments.

The state machinery continues to undergo transformation to ensure better balance in its integration process. As government leaders we have come to realise that focusing on economic integration alone is not enough. We will also need further to enhance the foundations of peace and security and strengthen our social fabric. We have to pay particular attention to that which makes us a people, the basic foundation upon which a community is established.

What we have learned during the past 14 years of our democratic breakthrough is that if we are to advance our integration, our policies and activities within the African framework must better reflect the concerns of our people. That is why our co-operation on community development, community empowerment and poverty eradication is so significant, for that is where South Africa’s next challenge lies if we are to ensure that development reaches all our communities. That is why this meeting’s overall theme of empowering communities for poverty eradication is so relevant.

It means more tangible progress towards ensuring that all our communities benefit from economic growth. It means ensuring greater access to basic services for all and it means making sure that our people can benefit from total human development.

I am quite certain that Parliament on many occasions has had government departments come up with beautiful plans to address the poverty challenges. Many of these, however, have not been implemented due to capacity challenges. It is a proven fact that if we are to empower our communities and if we are to deliver to better the lives of our people, we must invest in our human resource capacity. This is an area we have identified, in our provincial growth and development strategy, as a needs area in Mpumalanga.

The human element, whether in the form of a public servant or a politician, or even as an ordinary civilian, plays an important role in the overall strengthening and the development of communities. It is, however, perhaps insufficient to address community development and poverty eradication purely as a social issue. It is our view that community development and poverty eradication are cross-cutting concerns which also need to be addressed in the economic and political pillars. Only if we ensure this will our efforts be truly mutually reinforcing and lead to concrete benefits for our people.

At the same time, as the province of Mpumalanga we are broadening our engagement in this area. It is indeed timely to engage our key partners in other provinces and around the world on these issues so that we can benefit from the experience and expertise as well as their important resources. Now more than ever, as government, we need to translate words into action. We must have a holistic approach that encompasses empowerment and self- reliance for all.

Looking at the way forward, the credibility of the South African government and the state depends on the ability to deliver what we have set out to do. Permit me to touch on three of the many issues that the Mpumalanga province believes are critical to the future effectiveness of our work in this area, including empowering our communities. They also reflect our views on how to transform our plans and budgets on community empowerment for poverty eradication into real action.

Firstly, the enhancement of good governance is a major challenge to long- term stability and sound economic development in South Africa. Therefore, we must make determined efforts to see that national efforts are supported and complemented through the promotion of good governance at the regional and international levels. This we continue to do through the accelerated capacity-building flagship project and other programmes aimed at strengthening our capacity to deliver.

Secondly, empowering women through ensuring their access to economic opportunities is another critical issue. We need to increase the involvement of women in the community and economy, including through education, training and career advancement opportunities. We continue to strengthen our programmes aimed at enabling women to participate in the mainstream economy such as the Siyatentela rural road maintenance project, which targets poor women-headed households who are trained to do routine maintenance on identified roads. The EPWP also continues to boost the participation and skilling of women in the province, although we feel it can be further enhanced. For the people of Mpumalanga, agriculture is also a source of growth, a provider of investment opportunities for the private sector and prime driver of agriculture-related industries and the rural nonfarm economy. To this end, we continue to apply the framework of Masibuyele Emasimini, a guide aimed at mobilising the masses of our province who have access to land but are not utilising it for a livelihood, therefore basically keeping themselves from placing their feet on the first rung of the ladder of development. This is an attempt to reduce the food security challenges that we have in the province.

Thirdly and finally, we believe that investment in basic primary education, skills training and lifelong learning is vital. The opportunities for everyone, especially the disadvantaged, to learn at any time and at any place, should be enhanced. We are about to launch the early childhood development, ECD, strategic implementation plan for the province. This we do as a way of heeding the call to provide primary education, to skill people and also to provide lifelong learning, which we take seriously as a province.

The recruitment and retention of educators for the Adult Basic Education and Training, Abet, programme coupled with the retention of learners in the system, is a challenging area that we have to attend to urgently. We had set a target of 28 000 learners; however, we only recruited 23 600 learners. For Kha Ri Gude we had set a target of 30 000. We were able to reach this target. However, the challenge of receiving and placing these graduates in the mainstream Abet curriculum still remains.

We should ensure that lifelong learning is promoted, including through the expansion of informal education from the literacy level to the vocational level. The further education and training, FET, recapitalisation programme has yielded very positive results for our province. This is evidenced by the fact that the Gert Sibande FET College based in Ermelo has been recognised by the National Department of Education as the number one college in the country for data management, financial management, sound systems and overall organisational management and performance. Ngiyabonga. [Thank you.] [Time expired.]

Mr W M DOUGLAS: Chairperson, His Excellency the President, hon members and my fellow South Africans, I greet you in the Name Above All Names, the name of Jesus Christ.


Mr W M DOUGLAS: Eradicating poverty through the intergovernmental system is and has to be a priority of any government. Co-operation between national, provincial and local government is vital for the successful implementation of national priorities in the fight against poverty.

This week, during Taking Parliament to the People, we have been listening to the cries of the people. There is a deep sense of injustice and desperation - a cry from the very soul of the nation. We have heard how our people have to walk for hours to clinics 40 km to 50 km away, when the World Health Organisation says clinics should not be more 5 km from villages.

We heard how food parcels meant for starving communities never reach them because they are taken for personal use by the workers of the department of social development. This is wicked and unjust. The ACDP believes that these food parcels should be distributed to communities through the headmen and traditional leaders in rural areas in consultation with the department.

At a provincial government level across the country, specifically in the Eastern Cape, we have seen gross underspending since 1994. [Interjections.]

Ms P MAJODINA (Eastern Cape): Chairperson, on a point of order: It is out of order for a member to mislead this House and say people are walking 40 km to 50 km to a clinic. That is not factual. He must not mislead this House. Thank you.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): The hon member may continue.

Mr W M DOUGLAS: Chair, this is what the people said and not what I am saying. I am saying what they said during Taking Parliament to the People.

A lack of money is not the problem. The fact that billions of rands earmarked for job creation projects, the building of roads and delivery of services lay unspent since 1994 shows a lack of concern for the needs of the people and a serious breakdown in the intergovernmental system. There is and has been money for new schools for 14 years; there is money for new roads; there is money for new fences to keep cattle off the roads; and there has been money for 14 years for water irrigation projects, etc. Money is not the issue. Why is this money not being spent? When the people leave here, nothing will be different at the homes they go back to. Is it going to take another 14 years for promises made here to take place at their level?

At the national and international level, the Millennium Development Goals are seemingly taking a back seat in global priorities due to the ongoing financial crisis. Wealthy nations are taking a “trade not aid” policy stand as an excuse to withdraw aid from Africa. It is now more important than ever for South Africa to take the lead, specifically the President of South Africa, in driving the African agenda on the global stage.

Proverbs 31:8 says to the king, the ruler, and I quote: Speak up for the people who have no voice, for the rights of all the downtrodden. Speak out for justice. Stand up for the poor and destitute.

What is happening in our communities and our nation is unjust, ungodly and criminal. Fourteen years after the birth of our nation, more can be done. The ACDP believes that our people have suffered enough. We are at the tipping point in our history. In the words of president-elect Barack Obama, it is time for change. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr G H AKHARWARAY (Northern Cape): Chairperson, Deputy Chairpersons of the NCOP, His Excellency the hon President, hon members, delegates and representatives of various structures that include Ministers, premiers, MECs, Speakers, mayors, ladies and gentlemen, I bring to you greetings from the people of the Northern Cape. In fact, they told me I must say, “Halala, Eastern Cape, halala!”


Mr G H AKHARWARAY (Northern Cape): Indeed, we do live in a time of crisis worldwide, but we do also live in a period of hope. We regard this century as the African century. What better way of illustrating the point than through the election of Senator Barack Obama to lead the United States and, by that means, the West as well.

But here at home, some 14 years ago, we began a journey to rebuild our country and establish our newly created democracy. Each time our people went to the polls it reflected a declaration of their hopes, dreams and aspirations to chart a new course in pursuit of those ideals.

In 2004, this third legislative Assembly, under the stewardship of the ANC, received its mandate to continue on the journey that we had started in

  1. Today we stand at the threshold of the final lap of that mandate. As we reflect on our work, we realise that the devastation caused by apartheid neglect was immense. The task at hand was daunting, and the challenges we faced were great. But our determination to succeed was even greater.

Listening to the speaker just before me, I think when we refer to these issues we should not be superficial about the analysis of these issues. As a result, we can say that we have dramatically reduced the incidence of child and infant mortality in our country, and especially in the Northern Cape. We have arrested the growth of the incidence of HIV/Aids in our province and even experienced a reduction in unemployment rates. But yes, the challenges remain.

As we consolidate our gains and strengthen our developmental programmes so as to empower people to lift themselves out of their problems and live their own dreams, we also recognise that we have to escalate our food security and other support measures to those whom we consider vulnerable, especially given this global turmoil which impacts on us.

We need to ensure that poverty is not passed on from one generation to another. This does necessarily entail more financial resources. In fact, it has never been about money. It is about our will, our capacity to function efficiently and, most notably, working in a co-ordinated way. That, to my mind, is the essence of the intergovernmental system - the ability of the three spheres of government to act in concert with each other to achieve a common goal.

The Northern Cape’s growth and development strategy is premised on two objectives, namely economic growth and poverty reduction interventions. This approach acknowledges that whilst we pursue growth and development in the medium to long term, we need to ensure that we prepare people to take advantage of the opportunities as they arise.

Government announced its intervention programmes, highlighting the Apex Priorities under the theme of Business Unusual: All hands on deck to speed up change. These positive programmes impact immediately and directly on the family. We affirm that the institution of family is the core of the society. Its welfare ultimately translates into the wellbeing of the society at large. Hence, it is vital that we retain the pre-eminence of the family in our development strategy.

We can see the difference it makes when people start caring for themselves. It makes a difference when we see parents protecting and educating the young ones, and not abusing them. The safety nets that we put in place in support of vulnerable families have been anchored in our sustainable livelihood programmes. Not only do we seek to address the problems of food and income security, but we also focus on empowering, mobilising and developing the poor and the marginalised.

The social security programme administered by the SA Social Security Agency is perhaps one of the most effective poverty - eradication programmes that government has embarked upon. To date, millions of our people are assisted in this way. This is in addition to access to free basic services such as water, sanitation and so forth, referred to by the President in his opening remarks.

Given the current food prices and their impact on the poor, the strategy of our colleagues in Agriculture to promote community food gardens becomes all the more crucial as a means to support the vulnerable and encourage self- reliance. Where a family faces the indignity of poverty and suffers the insecurities and anxieties of these conditions, we can only imagine what our youth must feel if they find themselves living under these conditions. Imagine being a teenager with no prospect of a job or opportunity to study a trade or some discipline. Imagine standing at a corner without hope and with a sense of isolation. Surely these are unfair burdens imposed on young people.

We can’t allow such suffering or hopelessness to pervade our society. Our country offers a bright future and immense opportunities. All we have to do is to equip our youth to benefit from these opportunities of the African millennium. We need to transform our youth from passive recipients of services to agents of development.

In the Northern Cape, government policies and programmes are geared for job creation and growth. In practice this means investing in our youth, their skills and education from childhood. Therefore, the expansion of the early childhood development, ECD, centres is perhaps the most obvious example to illustrate this point.

Furthermore, the war against poverty, which is also an Apex Priority, finds practical resonance in the Northern Cape through a pilot programme called Building Healthy Families for the Future. In essence, it focuses on the provisioning of a basket of services in a co-ordinated way aimed at targeted families which are considered most vulnerable.

The ultimate objective is that over time - between 12 months and 18 months

  • we should graduate these families out of poverty through focused exit strategies for those identified.

To conclude, hon President and Chairperson, the journey that we have started is not easy; even the road ahead will be long and difficult. But we face these challenges with humility and resilience, and in the knowledge that we are courageous people.

If we embark on this path together, there are no obstacles or difficulties that we can’t overcome; there are no dreams that we can’t realise. Thank you.

Ms N P MAGWAZA (Western Cape): Hon President, Chairperson of the NCOP, Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, premiers present, members of the provincial legislature of the Eastern Cape, members of the executive council, traditional leaders and …

…nakubahlali bonke baseChris Hani nas’ Emalahleni, ekhaya nasemtyantini wam, ndiyanibulisa. Namhlanje ndimele ukuxolisela iNkulumbuso yePhondo ehloniphekileyo uLynne Brown, ongakwazanga ukuba abe kunye nathi apha. Kodwa ke, ndikhona ukumela iPhondo laseNtshona Koloni. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[… to the entire community of the Chris Hani District Municipality and the Emalahleni Local Municipality, my family as well as my in-laws, I greet you all. I stand here to offer an apology on behalf of the premier of the province, hon Lynne Brown, who could not be here with us. However, I am here to represent the Western Cape province.]

Chairperson, the effectiveness of the government we represent, whether at national, provincial or local level, should not only be measured by the opportunities we continue to create for advantaged community members, but also by how we treat our most vulnerable citizens. For years we have spoken with admirable eloquence about our commitment to the poor. Often, though, the action that has followed has not always equalled the intensity of our words.

As servants of the people, we need to reaffirm, firstly, that we did not join the struggle to make the rich richer. We entered politics to help generate a climate of hope among the poorest of the poor by creating opportunities for them to break out of the spiral of helplessness and hopelessness that continues to engulf many of our communities.

Secondly, we need to work with a single-mindedness never demonstrated before to bring change to the lives of the millions who have instructed us via the ballot box to fight for their rights and the rights of children. We acknowledge, though, that we face natural challenges.

Research released by the Bureau of Market Research at Unisa early this year estimated that more than 33 million South Africans earned less than R12 200 per annum. To put it differently, more than 70% of South Africa’s population earns just over R1 000 a month. These statistics should galvanise all of us into action - and I believe that they have already done so.

Let me give you some facts about the Western Cape. It has a population of 5,2 million people, a number that is growing. I am reminded all the time of what a beautiful province we have; of its scenic splendour and its wonderful beaches. And, yes, there are some things about the Western Cape that fill me with pride. But there are other things about the Western Cape that worry us deeply.

We have an unemployment rate that has been estimated at 20%. More than 400 000 people are on a housing waiting list that continues to grow. Crime is a problem; drug addiction is on the rise; many children go hungry and malnourished. I’m mentioning all these challenges because I believe that before we can tackle a problem we need to acknowledge its scale. Moreover, it will give us the opportunity, over the next few years, to measure the success of our interventions. What I’m saying is that we have a plan. We have declared war on poverty and we have already stepped into the trenches to take up the cudgels on behalf of the poorest of the poor in our province.

Some of the interventions that we have put in place have been designed to offer basic and immediate help to residents of the province. Let me start with the very young – our primary schoolchildren. The government of the Western Cape has made it possible for about 200 000 primary school learners to receive one quality meal a day, which they never used to get.

We have also acknowledged that many high school learners in our province have also been going hungry and so we have expanded this school feeding programme to include 35 000 high school learners. That is the very least we can do.

If we truly believe that children are our future, we need to create conditions that will fill them with hope and ambition. By ensuring that they are at least able to get one solid meal a day, we will encourage them to continue to take the tiny steps towards a much brighter future.

Colleagues, let me touch on the position of another vulnerable group: the farmworkers of our province. We have 240 000 of them and, quite frankly, the conditions under which they live and work and their future have been a source of constant worry. But here, again, we have devised a plan to help them. One of the interventions that we have put in place through the provincial department of agriculture is a reskilling programme.

We believe that it is critical that farmworkers break out of what many are referring to as a “generational poverty trap”. One of our chief sources of job creation is our EPWP. In this respect, in the social and economic sectors of the EPWP, we’ve drawn up a 10-week skills enhancement programme. At present 4 000 people are involved in the programme. In turn, we are seeing the number of trainees rising appreciably.

Food security continues to be a problem in the Western Cape. But again, we’ve adopted an aggressively proactive approach to the challenge. Together with various social partners, we have started increasing the number of food banks and food gardens throughout the province.

At present, we have set up more than 800 food gardens in communities and 200 in schools – and we will be increasing the numbers over the next few months. Some people may scoff at the concept of food gardens, but the reality is that they have put food on the tables of many families which, otherwise, would have starved. During October and November 2008, our government, led by the Department of Social Development, has already launched three clusters of nutrition centres feeding more than 20 000 beneficiaries a day.

Let’s look at the question of housing. Among the poorest of the poor the acquisition of housing promotes self-esteem. It fills homeowners with the confidence to assert their rights as South Africans and it is the catalyst that turns into certainty the hope that tomorrow will, indeed, be better than yesterday. Over the past four years we’ve built more than 60 000 homes which have benefited more than 210 000 people.

As far as job creation is concerned, our roads division in the department of transport and public works has come up with a number of innovative programmes. Chief among these has been a devised agreement with construction companies to use local labour, especially in the rural areas.

For example, I would like to tell you a full story of the tiny West Coast settlement in Eendekuil. Today there is a buzz among the 490 households after a roads project was given the go-ahead there earlier this year. That was not too long ago. If any of that town’s 2 500 residents had peered into a crystal ball, they would have seen nothing but gloom and uncertainty. Unemployment stood at 47% and was increasing, and confidence in the future was the furthest thing from most people’s minds.

However, when the roads division decided to tar a 4,2 km section of a road leading from Eendekuil to the N7 at a cost of R10,8 million, things began to turn around. The instruction from the division was that the unskilled labour for the job had to be sourced in Eendekuil. Two teams of 65 people each were employed for the project, which was scheduled for completion within a year. Today in the town they are talking about attracting tourists and opening up bed and breakfast establishments. Confidence works wonders in communities. When there is belief in the future, the future starts growing.

The fact that 130 people were on the regular payroll of a roads construction company resulted in another first for the town - the placing of an ATM at the local hotel. The success of the Eendekuil project, the planning of something similar to … [Time expired.]

Mr J M SIBIYA: Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, His Excellency the President of the Republic, Ministers, Deputy Ministers, MECs, mayors, Speakers, councillors, comrades, colleagues, ladies and gentlemen, the ANC public representatives know the difference between a rally and a sitting of Parliament. That is why they don’t introduce themselves along party lines when they take to the podium.

Public representatives of the ANC know that the ANC-led government has integrated development plans, IDP, programmes, part of which has to do with access roads, and they are aware that our people need those access roads. That is why they speak about these. They definitely can’t speak about the distribution of underwear, vests and socks in meetings because that has got nothing to do with the IDPs of the ANC.

It is also interesting to note that among us there are those who are part and parcel of Parliament, who choose not to be aware or not to see what our government is doing. They choose to see what the government hasn’t done, and according to them it means nothing is going to be done.

They go further to say that the Millennium Development Goals and programmes in this country are being ignored. Let me remind them that the ANC-led government has programmes which aim to provide universal sanitation to our people by 2010, electricity by 2012 and also reduce poverty by 2014. It is true, we have not yet reached that point but we definitely do not need prefects to tell us that - as a government we know.

It is also interesting to note that the achievements of our government in this province have not been referred to, except by the premier when he welcomed us the other day and hon Mahlangu when he was indicating to us here what the people of this province told us and what their programmes indicated they were going to do.

I had the opportunity of gaining access to the statistics on the achievements of this province. Perhaps, before I continue, let me make an announcement that I am in no way the spokesperson of the provincial government of the Eastern Cape, but as part of the government I know what this province has done so far. I will help you in that regard. In 1999, five years after the ANC became the leader of the democratically elected government in this country, 45% of households in this province started using electricity. This was an improvement from 33,3% in 1996. Is that not an achievement? Why do we choose not to talk about it? If we don’t know, let us ask and the government will tell us about it.

In 2002 the households using electricity for lighting in this province increased to 51%, and in 2004 that number increased to 57%. It is obvious that between 2004 and the present something has been done, and at the end of the financial year we will definitely get new statistics indicating that the government is doing something. Let us open our eyes and see what the government is doing so that we can indicate what hasn’t been done and help the government to do what has not been done. We don’t need prefects in this regard.

It is true that the government in this province needs to improve its achievement in the supply of electricity in the following municipalities: Elundini, Qawukeni, Ntabankulu, Mbashe, etc. While the ANC government takes water and sanitation as life-sustaining services, it also takes electricity as a life-enhancing service.

In 1996, 34% of households in this province had access to piped water. In 2001 that increased to 37%, and in the same housing survey it was found that the houses which are of RDP standard in this municipality are found in Camdeboo, Khwezi, Baviaanskloof, Nkwankca, Inxuba yeThemba and Xhariep. Is that not an achievement? Can’t we see this? If we don’t know, let us ask and the government will tell us.

UTata uSihlalo utshilo kwintetho yakhe yokuvula, ukuba sihambe iindawo ezininzi sithetha nabantu abasebenza kwezo ndawo. Nathi njengamalungu eKomiti eKhethekileyo neMicimbi yezoQoqosho nezaNgaphandle, zikhona iindawo esizihambileyo. Kutyelelo lwethu, sive ngeengxaki esiza kucela iNkulumbuso yeli phondo ukuba isincede ukuze kufumaneke ulwazi malunga nazo. Emva koko siza kuyicela ukuba iphinde iye kwaba bantu, phaya kwifama engukopolotyeni iMayime Shiloh, ibachazele ngoko iya kube ikufumanisile kwingxelo esiza kuyinika yona. Kwaye sicele ukuba oku kwenziwe ingekafiki inyanga kaFebhuwa ri kunyaka ozayo.

Sikwafumanise ukuba kube kho imali eyakhutshwa ngurhulumente yanikwa lo kopolotyeni ukuze kwenziwe konke ekusemandleni ukuqinisekisa ukuba la fama iyakwazi ukuzimela ngeenyawo zayo. Kuphinde kwakhutshwa enye imali, eyi- R700 000, ukuze kutyalwe ilusini ukuze ibe nokunceda ukuvuselela iinkomo zobisi ebezikade zifumaneka phaya. Kodwa nanamhlanje, akukabonakali ukuba loo mali yenze ntoni na.

Ngoko ke, sicela ukuba iofisi yeNkulumbuso yenze konke ekusemandleni ukuphanda ukuba kanye kanye kwenzeke ntoni kwezi nzame zonke. Nanamhlanje le fama ayikakwazi ukuzimela ngeenyawo zayo.

Kwakhona, ikhona imali eyathi yakhutshwa ukuze incede ekubeni amadama amane akhona phaya akwazi ukuba abonelele abantu ngamanzi ukuze bawasebenzise kwizityalo zabo. Nangoku basatsho ukuba ewe amanzi ayafumaneka, kodwa awonelanga. Kambe, xa sijonga la madama, siyabona ukuba ewe anawo amanzi angathi xa enokusetyenziswa ngendlela efanelekileyo akwazi ukubanceda. Sicela i-Ofisi yeNkulumbuso ukuba isincede nangalo mba.

Kukho nenye ingxaki, yokuba iinkomo zaba bantu zikhe zifakwe eskiti, kwaye xa sele zisiwe eskiti elowo nalowo onenkomo eseskiti kufanele abhatale imali engangewaka leerandi ukuze zikhutshwe iinkomo zakhe. Zonke ezi zinto sicele iOfisi yeNkulumbuso ukuba isincede kuzo.

Enye into ebe buhlungu kakhulu kukuba aba bantu basixelele ukuba abazi ukuba i-IDP yintoni, abazi ngeembizo zikarhulumente kwaye abazi nokuba i- ofisi yenqila yovoto, i-constituency office, yintoni na. Ngoko ke sicele uceba wewadi, naye obe khona apha, ukuba athi ngokukhawuleza aphande ukuba i-ofisi yenqila yovoto ebekufuneka ukuba ibe inceda aba bantu indawoni na.

Ngoobani aMalungu ePalamente kazwelonke namalungu epalamente yeli phondo ekufuneka ukuba abe asebenza kule ofisi yenqila yovoto? Siyabulela kakhulu ngoba izolo siye safumanisa ukuba le ofisi yenqila yovoto ikhona, ilapha kuKomani. Uqabane osebenza kule ofisi unikwe ii-village, iilali – ngoku ndiyazi ukuba ngesiXhosa i-village yilali [Kwahlekwa.] – ezingama-48 ekufuneka ejongene nazo. Kanti likhona nelinye iqabane elinikwe iilali ezili-12 ezibandakanya iShiloh. Kodwa ngokuhamba kwexesha eli qabane laphinda labuyiselwa apha kuKomani ukuze libe nokunceda abantu abadinga uncedo kule ofisi.

Siyacela, mawethu, ukuba elo Lungu lePalamente okanye lungu lepalamente yephondo elinikwe olu xanduva lokujongana nale ofisi, malizame lifumane ixesha likhe liye phaya kwiMayime Shiloh co-operative farm, lihlale phantsi naba bantu ukuze live ukube iingxaki zabo zithini na. Ezo likwaziyo ukubanceda kuzo, kuya kufuneka libancede kuzo kuba bathi bacela nokuncedwa kwizakhono ezingabanceda kumsebenzi wabo kule fama kwanokuncedwa nangabantu bokubabonisa indlela yokusebenza.

Siphinde sacela ukuba badibane baseke imanyano yabasebenzi. Kwaye sithi urhulumente makabancede badibane nalo mfama orhwebayo ofama yakhe inganeno kwale aba bantu basebenza kuyo. Lo mfama uneenkomo ezininzi zobisi. Mabazame ukuba bavane nalo mfama ukuze abancede ukuze nabo bakwazi ukuvelisa ubisi ngendlela abebekade besenza ngayo ngaphambili laa fama ingekawi.

Okokugqibela, ndifuna ukutsho, mawethu, ukuba into yokuba sithi sisebenza kunye singavani kwathina, ayisincedi loo nto. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Sixelelwe ngezinto ezifana nokuba xa kuthunyelwe abameli entlanganisweni, ukuya kumela abasebenzi bale fama ingukopolotyeni, xa bebuya ababachazeli abanye ngokuqhubekileyo apho entlanganisweni. Enkosi. Ndiyabulela. [Laphela ixesha.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[The hon Chairperson said, in his opening speech, that we visited many places, talking to the people who work there. We, as members of the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs, have also visited some. On our oversight visits, we also heard about problems, which we will ask the premier of this province to help us find solutions to. After that we will ask him to go back to those people, at Mayime Shiloh farmers’ co-operative, and tell them about his findings based on the report we will give him. And we have asked that this be done at least before February next year.

We also learnt that there was funding from government for this co-operative farm to ensure that it becomes fully independent. There was further funding, an amount of R700 000, for the planting of lucerne in order to restore the farm’s dairy stock. But even today, it is not yet clear what that money was used for.

Therefore, we appeal to the premier’s office to do everything in its power to investigate what really happened to all these endeavours. To this day, that farm is unable to stand on its own.

Also, there was funding that was provided to help ensure that the four dams provide people with water for their plants. The workers told us that water is available there, but is not enough. However, when we take a look at these dams, we see that there is enough water there and if used properly it could help these people. We appeal to the premier’s office to also help in this regard.

There is also another problem, namely that the cattle of these people are sometimes impounded, and whoever has an impounded cow has to pay a fine of R1 000 for it to be released. We have approached the premier’s office for help in regard to all these issues.

Another sad thing has been for these people to tell us that they do not know what the integrated development plan, IDP, is, what the government izimbizo are or what the constituency office is. Therefore, we have asked the ward councillor, who was also here with us, to immediately locate the constituency office that is supposed to help these people.

Who are the Members of Parliament and the members of the provincial legislature of this province who are supposed to be working in this constituency? We are very grateful because yesterday we discovered that this constituency office does exist, and it is here in Queenstown. The comrade who works in this office was given 48 villages – at least now I know that in isiXhosa villages are called “iilali” - under his jurisdiction. [Laughter.] Another comrade was given responsibility for 12 villages, which includes Shiloh. However, as the time went by, this comrade was again returned to Queenstown to help people in this office.

We appeal to you, countrymen, that the particular Member of Parliament or member of the provincial legislature who was given responsibility for this constituency office should please try and find the time to visit the Mayime Shiloh co-operative farm, talk to these people and listen to their problems. The member concerned must try and help where he or she can because these people have also asked for help with skills that can, be useful in their work on this farm, as well as in terms of people who can mentor them.

We also appealed to them to form a workers’ union. We feel that government must help them to meet with the neighbouring commercial farmer. This farmer has many dairy cows. They must try to have good relations with this farmer so that he or she can help them produce milk the way they used to before their farm became insolvent.

Lastly, I want to say, countrymen, that disunity amongst fellow workers does not help at all. [Applause.] We were told about representatives who, when sent to attend meetings on behalf of the workers of this co-operative farm, fail to give report-backs when they return. I thank you.] [Time expired.]


Kukhona umsindo lapha phansi, uMongameli usezophendula ngicela nithule nonke. Ngizocela uMongameli wezwe azophendula izinkulumo zonke ezibekiwe namhlanje. [There is noise from the floor. The President is about to respond, could you all be quiet, please. I would now like to call upon the President of the Republic of South Africa to take the podium and respond to all the issues raised today.]

UMONGAMELI WOMZANTSI AFRIKA: Okokuqala mandibulele le nkululeko endiyifumeneyo yokuba nam ndingathetha ngesiXhosa ngoba ndifike apha kwathiwa ndinyanzelekile ukuba ndithethe ngesiNgesi. Ndizakutyatyadula ngesiXhosa ke mawethu. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Asitolikwa ke isiXhosa bantu. [Kwahlekwa.] Mphathi-hlelo mandibulele eli thutyana. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Firstly, let me thank you for the liberty to deliver my speech in isiXhosa, because when I arrived here I was told that I am compelled to speak in English. My fellow citizens, I shall deliver my lengthy speech in isiXhosa. [Applause.] As I am addressing isiXhosa-speaking people there is no need for an interpreter. [Laughter.] Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity.]

Let me first express appreciation that the NCOP has spent time with members of the community, listening to the cries of the members of the community. In this session the deliberations seek to find responses to these cries of members of our communities. Of equal importance is the fact that members of the NCOP have been able to go on an inspection in loco of what obtains on the ground.

Manditsho ke mawethu ukuba inkululeko ithetha ukuba xa abantu besithi abanamanzi aze athi urhulumente uzakwenza ukuba bafumane amanzi. Kubekho amadami kunye nemibhobho ezakwenza ukuba loo manzi bawafumane kwalapha ekuhlaleni. Xa loo nto ifezekile urhulumente akakwazi ukuba asiqhenye ngaloo nto ngoba iimfuno zabantu azizophela. Xa sisithi sizama ukuba senze ukuhlala bantu kubanelise loo nto ithetha ukuba ulu hambo lude. Eli dabi lidabi esiza kuba kulo ixesha elide. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[I must say, my fellow people, that freedom means if people say they do not have water and the government promises to provide it. There must be dams and infrastructure to ensure that they get the water in their communities. When that has been achieved the government cannot take pride in itself because the people will always have numerous and different needs. If we say we are trying to create better living conditions for the people, we still have a long journey. This is a battle we shall be fighting for a long time.]

Philosophers explain to us that freedom means recognition of necessity. An example of this is when someone says …

… njengotat’ uMzizi nomama uDlulane xa bebeye kwezi zikolo zilapha, eFree Mantle naseNompucuko, bafike phaya bafumanisa ukuba imeko ayiginyisi mathe. Oko kungenxa yokuba imeko yamagumbi okufundela yenze ukuba umntu omdala aphalaze iinyembezi.

Uthi utat’uMzizi iSebe leMisebenzi kaRhulumente mayiye kwesiya sikolo ngoMvulo, ifike ifake amacango neefesitile. Loo nto ithetha ukuba licebo lethutyana. Ithethe ukuba impendulo enje, yokufakelwa kweengcango neefestile, yileya esithi ngesiXhosa ithetha ukuba aba bantwana bafunda phaya, nalo mzali, uyinqununu le ibilila phaya mabalale ngenxeba. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[… like Mr Mzizi and Mrs Dlulane when they visited these schools, at Freemantle High and Nompucuko, they found that the conditions of teaching and learning were in an appalling state. This terrible condition of the classrooms brings one to tears.

Mr Mzizi says the Department of Public Works must visit these schools and install doors and windows on Monday. These will be temporary measures. These temporary measures, fixing the doors and windows, mean that the learners and the principal who was crying must live with it.]

What we are really doing is to palliate the pain and not to address fully the challenge of that school, because if we are to address it properly we must say … … nyhani ngoMvulo iSebe leMisebenzi ka Rhulumente maliye phaya lifike lenze le nto ibicelwa ngutat’uMzizi. Kodwa ngenxa yokuba… [… the Department of Public Works must really visit the school and carry out the repairs as Mr Mzizi has requested on Monday. But …]

the reality is that there are students and a principal who is committed to ensuring that these students are learning. Now our challenge is to ensure that we turn this school around. It cannot be correct that it will always be the worst example of what needs to be improved.

When we go to improve it we must aim to push it to become number one so that, relative to other schools, we are able to point to that school and say here is a shining example of intervention because if we continue with stop-gap measures and palliatives …

… asizikuyisusa le ntlungu.

Into yesibini endiyive kule ntetho yanamhlanje yile yokuba le ngingqi yingingqi yolimo kodwa abantu abanamanzi. Uthi uMhlali-ngaphambili weSalga, ingxaki yamanzi apha asiyiyo le yokuba anqongophele phaya ezindlini. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[… we will not be removing the pain.

The second aspect I have heard about from today’s deliberations is that this is an agricultural region but water is scarce. The chairperson of Salga says the scarcity of water is not only limited to that of household consumption.

It is a challenge of bulk water supply for irrigation and family or household consumption.

Loo nto ithetha ukuthi … [This means] that cannot be a challenge which can be left to a local municipality. It is a challenge for national government. [Applause.] Therefore, we must be able to present that challenge to the national government to ensure that the necessary steps are taken by the Department of Water Affairs to respond to that problem because if …

… kukho amanzi okunkcenkceshela indlala sizakuyigweba apha ngoba abantu balapha ngabalimi, bazakulima. Uthi ke umam ’uCapa ooceba abanandawo abasebenzela kuyo. Badibana nabahlali ekuhambeni nasezikoneni. Akukho nkxaso abayifumanayo ngokubhekisele kulawulo njalo njalo. Nabasebenzi bophuhliso loluntu akukho apho benza ingxelo khona. Ngoko ke into yokuba bayasebenza okanye abasebenzi ayaziwa mntu. Ithethe ukuba ke loo nto … (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[… there is water for irrigation purposes, people will no longer go hungry; they will till the soil and produce food. Mrs Capa says the councillors do not have an office where they can operate. They meet the members of the community on street corners and during their leisure walks. They are not getting any support with regard to governance, etc. Even the community development workers do not have an office to report to. Consequently, whether or not they are really working nobody knows. This means …]

The local government level is the interface with the people and ensures that it is properly resourced, because if it is not …

… kufuneka siyijonge ngeliso elibukhali ukwenzela ukuba phaya kuyo kubekho indawo abayaziyo abahlali ukuba urhulumente wezasekhaya siza kumfumana kule ndawo, kufutshane. [… we need to have a closer look at it and ensure there is an office which the community has access to. This office should not be far away, for easy access.]

That also needs support so that in our conceptualisation of these three levels of government we understand the local government sphere is very, very important because it is the interface, and ensure that it is properly resourced, because if it is not …

… ayizokukwazi ukuba isincedise ekucebeni kwethu, isincedise ekuqondeni imiceli-mngeni yasekuhlaleni. [… it will be unable to assist us in our planning and in meeting the challenges of the community.]

Now that brings me to another aspect …

… evelileyo apha namhlanje yokuba sinesi sifo sokuba … [… that emerged in today’s deliberations, namely that we have a tendency to …]

… work in silos. At every level there are silos and we operate without proper co-ordination.

Sinawo amaqumrhu. La maqumbu amiselwa … [We have committees. These committees were established …]

… to address the problem of co-operation and synergy in terms of the work we do. But there are also gaps between the three levels. In terms of ICT it is important that our software programs should be able to communicate between all three levels …

… ukwenzela ukuba xa ucofa … [… so that when you click …]

…at whatever level all the relevant information …

… ivele ibelapha phambi kwethu. [… pops up in front of you.]

The Deputy Minister of Justice is leading a process of reviewing the criminal justice system. One of the things he has already picked up … … yinto yokuba ezi nkqubo zethu ieNaTIS azikwazi ukunxibelelana. [… is that our eNaTIS programmes are not interconnected.]

This means that government is therefore expending enormous resources to introduce these IT systems, but even these IT systems are still in silos because they are not talking to each other.

Ibalulekile ke into yokuba siqinisekise ukuba ezi nkqubo ziyanxibelelana. [It is essential that these programs are interconnected.]

If they do not communicate, we will continue to function in a disjointed and disconnected way. But, of course, it also raises other opportunities, because government contracts are also regarded as opportunities for business empowerment.

There will be vested interests at various levels where people want to see companies that are friendly to them getting a contract to roll out a particular programme or system. This means that we have to understand and accept that those kinds of opportunities can be accessed even if we have one single programme that is able to communicate at all levels …

… singazifumani sibetheka, singamabanjwa … [… so as to minimise frustration and we should not be prisoners …]

… or become prisoners of vested interests.

The other matter that is a point of importance which came out in today’s deliberation is the importance of education as a tool to fight poverty. To lift poor households out of the cycle of poverty we need to ensure that in each family there are one or two members who are able to access basic education because …

… yiloo nto ezakwenza ukuba nyhani siyigwebe indlala. [… that will ensure we win the fight against poverty.]

That’s one programme that has emerged and that is why we need to take a long-term view. Because when we take short-term views in dealing with what are essentially accumulated disabilities - accumulated over decades - we will make mistakes because we want instant solutions to deep-rooted problems.

It is important that in our approach when we work out plans, our plans must also take a long-term view. For each term we should be able to work out action plans that would be able to lay the foundation for a resolution of these deep-seated problems. But because there are competing needs and competing priorities, it is not possible when you have limited resources to seek or to try to address all challenges at once.

That is why it is important for us very carefully and clearly to identify priorities. The priorities that we identify should be the ones that would have the catalytic impact of giving rise to other developments which would be able to improve on the overall quality of life of our people. And to that end, access to clean water is important, a roads network is important, education is important; because if you have clean water, you will be able to provide the infrastructure for sanitation. And without sanitation we can’t speak of a good health system.

That is why it is important for us to identify our priorities properly and carefully and ensure that we implement our long-term and medium-term plans in order to uplift the conditions of our people.

The issue of poverty and starvation remains a stubborn challenge, and it is not sustainable. It’s also demeaning, and part of the role of our democracy is also to restore the dignity of our people. Abantu xa bephilile kwaye befuna ukuncedwa ukuze babonelelwe njee ngeembewu nezichumiso ukuze balime baziphilise. Ibathoba isidima into yokuba bafole emigceni belindele ukuba mabafumane oku kwezibonelelo zentlalo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[If healthy and strong people need assistance such as being supplied with seeds and fertilisers so that they can plant and produce their own food, it is degrading to stand in long queues waiting for the delivery of this service …]

… because they could very well be producing enough food for their families and for the market. So in our response we should be able to ensure that we empower our people to restore their dignity. Because once dignity is lost the value systems also get eroded in the process.

Unobangela wokuba ufumanise ukuba abantu abasenambeko, ngoba akusekho mntu wazi ukuba kukho abakhuluwa, kukho abantu abadala – kuthethwa njee. [Kwaqhwatywa.] [The reason why people are disrespectful is because there is no one acknowledging that we still have the elders - youngsters do not pay attention to register, they speak as they wish. [Applause.]]

In a nutshell, I mean that our deliberations must always translate into prompt responses and be the basis for our long-term planning, so that we are able to improve the lives of our people.

Xa bendifika apha ndibone kukho abantu befole emigceni emide, andiqondanga ukuba yeyantoni na, nokuba yiyo le yabantu abafolele ukuba bencedwe benze izicelo zezazisi njalo njalo. Yinto entle leyo yokuba bonke abantu bethu babenazo izazisi. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[When I arrived here I saw people in a long queue. I did not really know why they were standing in a queue, whether they were waiting to be assisted with their applications for identity documents, etc. It is a good thing that everyone should be in possession of an identity document.]

However, we should also ensure that we do not only address this issue through mobile units; if people go to make application at the offices, the applications should be processed within the shortest possible time. Unnecessary delays give rise to frustrations on the part of applicants; they also give rise to corruption …

… kuba ekugqibeleni umntu ngenxa yokuphelelwa lithemba ucinga ukuba noko “ingathi xa ndingashiya imvu phaya esangweni likamabhalana ndithumele umyalezo ngo nomyayi, ndithi mabhalana ndim lo usbani- bani, ndishiye igusha pha okanye inja ukwenzela ukuba bangaqondi ukuba noko ndinento endiyifunayo nam.” Ngoko igusha uzakuyibiza inja ke xa kunjalo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[… because one eventually loses hope and realises “I could bribe the official by leaving a sheep at the official’s gate and thereafter send him a short message on his cellular phone identifying myself and telling him of the bribe in encoded language, such as referring to the sheep as a dog so that other people cannot understand that I am asking for a favour from him”. In this instance the sheep will be referred to as a dog. [Applause.]]

Service to the people is what we are about, and therefore it should not be possible for any of our public servants to cause unnecessary delays which result in people seeking to dispense sweeteners, so to speak, or bribes, out of desperation. Once you fall into that trap, it’s a slippery slope; you never come back.

Iba sisiqhelo, siyone ingqondo ke eso siqhelo. [You become used to it and a habit conquers the mind.]

To improve service, I sometimes wish that the most senior managers could from time to time just go down and occupy the front desks, so that when people submit applications they would be the ones who process them, just to have a sense of what the defects are in the applications which then occasion delays in the processing, because first-hand information assists in better planning.

Lento yenziwa ngamaLungu aHloniphekileyo e-NCOP yokuza ebantwini iwanika ithuba lokuba xa ephaya eCape Town exoxa akwazi ukuxoxa ngamava awaziyo, kuba bebavile abantu bakuthi xa beveza iimfuno zabo.

Mandithi ke Sihlalo ndiyathemba ukuba zonke iingongoma ezibalulekileyo ndizikhankanyile apha. Ndizama ukujonga incwadi esisikhumbuzi sam ukwenzela ukuba ndingathethi njee into engekhoyo. Ingathi Sihlalo ndizamile noko ukuba ndiphulaphule, ndiphefumle kuzo zonke iingongoma eziphakanyiswe apha namhlanje. Ngoko ke mandibulele kwakhona ukuba ndinikwe eli thuba, ndithemba ukuba sizokwenza ukuba … (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[What the hon members of the NCOP are doing, coming to the communities, gives them the opportunity to be able to deliberate about what they know and have experienced, because they have listened to the communities voicing their needs.

Let me say, Chairperson, I hope that I have mentioned all the essential aspects here. I am trying to glance at my diary so that I do not speak out of turn. Chairperson, I think I have tried to listen and comment on all the aspects that were raised here today. I must therefore express my gratitude again for being awarded this opportunity, hoping that we shall make it possible that …]

… out of these deliberations and the reports we refer those issues that need to be referred to certain departments for further processing and ensure that we will monitor the responses of those departments and be able to keep these communities who raised the issues posted on progress …

… ukwenzela ukuba abantu bakuthi bangalahlekelwa lithemba bathathe ukuba aba bantu beza kuthi ngoba bafuna siyokuvota. [… so that our people do not lose hope and take it for granted that these people just visit us simply because they want us to go and vote.]

That’s not the attitude and the approach. We are of the view that coming down to the level of the people is giving expression to what we call people- centred governance.

Ibalulekile lonto yokuba abantu bakuthi bangashiywa ngaphandle kuba amaxesha amaninzi banazo izikhalazo, banazo nezindululo ezinokuncedisa urhulumente ukuba asombulule ezi ngxaki ezijongene nabantu bakuthi. Ndiyabulela mawethu, nangamso ningadinwa siza kubakho. Enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[It is essential that we do not exclude our people because many a time they do not only express their complaints but also have suggestions which can assist the government to solve the problems facing our communities. I thank you, my fellow citizens. We shall return in future, so do not despair. Thank you. [Applause.]]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, hon President. Ladies and gentlemen, allow me to make a few announcements. The first announcement is that transport for the members will depart at 13:00 for the airport. Please have your lunch quickly and then get your transport. Do not miss your buses and your planes, because tomorrow you have to be at your voter registration stations to assist the people to register.

                           THANKS TO MECs

The second announcement is that I want to thank the following MECs, who have really made an effort whilst we have been here. I have been looking very carefully and I need to thank them. I need to thank the MEC for social development, Mr Kwelita, for all the women’s projects which he has established in the programmes. I have been accompanying him to their launches. Well done! Thank you very much.

I also want to thank the MEC for sport, Ms Noxolo Abraham-Ntantiso …

… oye wathi uma ngikhuluma naye walalela. Kukhona abantu abanezindlebe abalalelayo kanti futhi kukhona abangalaleli kodwa ngikhulumile naye. Wase ekhipha ama-wheelchairs ayishumi enikeza abantu bakithi abahluphekile. Ngiyabonga Ngqongqoshe. [Ihlombe.]

Uzokwengeza kusasa wenze kube kuningi. Ngibonge umama uPenny uma-Jodina. U- Penny kusukela ngoMvulo abantu bebekhuluma, bekhala izinyembezi, wagcina esengumluleki ukuthi akwazi ukubasiza ngezempilo labo bantu. Ngithanda ukubonga kakhulu. [Ihlombe.]

Ngithanda ukubonga umama uNgqongqoshe wesiFundazwe u-Barry esiye saqalisa naye izolo iproject yama-rangers namahhashi wabo namabhayisikili. Ngiyabonga kakhulu Ngqongqoshe nezindlela ozenzile. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[… who listened when I spoke to her. There are people who have ears and listen, and there are those who do not listen; I did speak to her though. She then donated 10 wheelchairs to our poor people. I thank you, Minister. [Applause.] You’ll give more in future.

I thank Ms Pemmy Majodina. As from Monday people have been speaking and crying to Ms Pemmy; she ended up being their adviser and helped them. I would like to thank you very much. [Applause.]

I would like to thank the hon MEC Barry whom we started on our project of rangers, horses, and cycling yesterday. I also thank you very much, MEC, for all road networks that you have established. [Applause.]]

Order, hon members! Before I adjourn the sitting, I request that you remain seated until the procession has left the Chamber. Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 12:26. ____


                       FRIDAY, 24 OCTOBER 2008


National Council of Provinces

  1. Report of the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs on the Mine Health and Safety Amendment Bill [B54B-2008] (National Assembly – sec 75), dated 22 October 2008:
The Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs, having considered
the subject of the Mine Health and Safety Amendment Bill [B54B– 2008]
[National Assembly-s75] referred to it, reports the Bill with proposed
amendments as follows:

                              CLAUSE 14
  1. On page 5, from line 31, to omit paragraph (l).
  2. On page 6, in line 7, to omit paragraph (d).

                            CLAUSE 15
  3. On page 7, in line 5, to omit “fund” and to substitute “Mine Health and Safety Inspectorate”.

                            CLAUSE 16
  4. On page 7, in line 21, to omit “must” and to substitute “may”.

                           NEW CLAUSE
  5. That the following be the new clause:

Amendment of section 54 of Act 29 of 1996, as amended by section 23 of Act 72 of 1997 and section 24 of Act 72 of 1997

  1. Section 54 of the principal Act is hereby amended by the deletion of subsections (7), (8), (9) and (10).

                            CLAUSE 18
  2. On page 8, in line 19, to omit “an appropriate court” and to substitute “the Labour Court”.

                            CLAUSE 22

Clause rejected. CLAUSE 23

Clause rejected.

                              CLAUSE 27
  1. On page 10, from line 19, after “omission” to insert “of an act falling within the scope of the authority or employment”.

                            CLAUSE 29
  2. On page 10, in line 57, to omit “subsections” and to substitute “subsection”.

  3. On page 11, after line 2, to insert the following: “(b) by the deletion of the table after subsection (5); (c) by the addition of the following subsections:”

  4. On page 11, in line 15, to omit paragraph (b).

  5. Report of the Select Committee on Finance on the Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B76 – 2008] (National Assembly—section 77), dated 23 October 2008

The Select Committee on Finance, having considered the Adjustments
Appropriation Bill [B76—2008] (National Assembly—section 77) referred
to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 77
Bill reports that it has agreed to the Bill. 3.    Report of the Select Committee on Finance on the Eskom Subordinated
Loan Special Appropriation (2008/09 – 2010/11 Financial Years) Bill
[B77 – 2008], dated 23 October 2008

The Select Committee on Finance, having considered the Eskom
Subordinated Loan Special Appropriation Bill (2008/09 – 2010/11
Financial Years) [B77 – 2008], (National Assembly—section 77) referred
to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 77
bill reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
  1. Report of the Select Committee on Finance on the Finance Bill [B78 – 2008], dated 23 October 2008
The Select Committee on Finance, having considered the Finance Bill
[B78 – 2008], (National Assembly—section 77) referred to it and
classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 77 Bill reports
that it has agreed to the Bill.
  1. Report of the Select Committee on Finance on the Government Employees Pension Fund (Condonation of Interrupted Service) Bill [B79 – 2008],dated 23 October 2008
The Select Committee on Finance, having considered the Government
Employees Pension Fund (Condonation of Interrupted Service) Bill
[B79—2008] (National Assembly—section 77) referred to it and classified
by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 77 Bill reports that it has
agreed to the Bill.
  1. Report of the Select Committee on Finance on the Revenue Laws Second Amendment Bill [B81 – 2008], dated 23 October 2008 The Select Committee on Finance, having considered the Revenue Laws Second Amendment Bill [B81—2008] (National Assembly—section 75) referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

  2. Report of the Select Committee on Finance on the Revenue Laws Amendment Bill [B80 – 2008], dated 23 October 2008

The Select Committee on Finance, having considered the Revenue Laws
Amendment Bill [B80—2008] (National Assembly—section 77) referred to it
and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 77 Bill
reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

                       FRIDAY, 31 OCTOBER 2008


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

  1. Assent by President in respect of Bills

    (1) Judicial Service Commission Amendment Bill [B 50B – 2007] – Act No 20 of 2008 (assented to and signed by President on 22 October 2008).

    (2) Air Services Licensing Amendment Bill [B 25B – 2008] – Act No 21 of 2008 (assented to and signed by President on 22 October 2008).

National Council of Provinces

The Chairperson

  1. Withdrawal of paper tabled

    Withdrawal by the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development of Draft Rules made in terms of section 7(3) of the Promotion of Administrative Justice Act, 2000 (Act No 3 of 2000) and tabled on 9 October 2007.


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

  1. The Minister of Finance

    (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Government Employees Pension Fund (GEPF) for 2007-2008, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2007-2008 [RP 148-2008].

    (b) Report and Financial Statements of the Reconstruction and Development Programme Fund for 2007-2008, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2007-2008 [RP 269-2008].

    (c) National Treasury – Consolidated Financial Information for the year ended 31 March 2008 [RP 268-2008].

    (d) Draft Regulations issued under Section 75B of the Income Tax Act, 1962 (Act No 58 of 1962) prescribing administrative penalties in respect of non-compliance.

  2. The Minister of Communications

    (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa for 2007-2008, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2007-2008 [RP 239-2008].

  3. The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism

    (a) Government Notice No 949 published in Government Gazette No 31380 dated 5 September 2008: Declaration of intention to propose extensions to and exclusions from, and a buffer zone for the fossil hominid sites of Sterkfontein, Swartkrans, Kromdraai and the environs (Cradle of Humankind), in term of the National Environmental Management: Protected Areas Act, 2003 (Act No 57 of 2003).

    (b) General Notice No 1138 published in Government Gazette No 31415 dated 15 September 2008: Second Edition Environmental Implementation and Management Plan (EIMP) – March 2008.

    (c) Government Notice No 1054 published in Government Gazette No 31461 dated 3 October 2008: Declaration of Land to be part of Augrabies Falls National Park, in terms of the National Environmental Management: Protected Areas Act, 2003 (Act No 57 of 2003).

    (d) Government Notice No 1055 published in Government Gazette No 31461 dated 3 October 2008: Declaration of Land to be part of Agulhas National Park, in terms of the National Environmental Management: Protected Areas Act, 2003 (Act No 57 of 2003).

    (e) Government Notice No 1056 published in Government Gazette No 31461 dated 3 October 2008: Declaration of Land to be part of Mapungubwe National Park, in terms of the National Environmental Management: Protected Areas Act, 2003 (Act No 57 of 2003).

    (f) Government Notice No 1057 published in Government Gazette No 31461 dated 3 October 2008: Declaration of Land to be part of Namaqua National Park, in terms of the National Environmental Management: Protected Areas Act, 2003 (Act No 57 of 2003).

    (g) Government Notice No 1058 published in Government Gazette No 31461 dated 3 October 2008: Declaration of Land to be part of Marakele National Park, in terms of the National Environmental Management: Protected Areas Act, 2003 (Act No 57 of 2003).

    (h) General Notice No 1264 published in Government Gazette No 31495 dated 6 October 2008: Submission of names of persons fit to be appointed to serve as members of the South African Tourism Board, in terms of the Tourism Act, 1993 (Act No 72 of 1993).

    (i) Government Notice No 1108 published in Government Gazette No 31516 dated 17 October 2008: Regulations on the Stilbaai Marine Protected Area, in terms of the Marine Living Resources Act, 1998 (Act No 18 of 1998). (j) Government Notice No 1109 published in Government Gazette No 31517 dated 17 October 2008: Notice declaring the Stilbaai Marine Protected Area under section 43 to be a marine protected area, in terms of the Marine Living Resources Act, 1998 (Act No 18 of 1998).

    (k) Government Notice No 1110 published in Government Gazette No 31517 dated 17 October 2008: Draft notice of fees payable in respect of applications for, and the issuing or granting of rights, permits and licences, in terms of section 25 of the Marine Living Resources Act, 1998 (Act No 18 of 1998) for recreational scuba diving in the Maputaland and St Lucia Marine Protected Areas; and in the Stilbaai and proposed Border Region Marine Protected Area upon declaration.

  4. The Minister of Trade and Industry

    a) Government Notice No 732 published in Government Gazette No 31226 dated 4 July 2008: Guidelines for the sub-programme Enterprise Investment Programme (Manufacturing Investment Programme).

    b) Government Notice No 733 published in Government Gazette No 31226 dated 4 July 2008: Guidelines for the sub-programme Enterprise Investment Programme (Tourism Support Programme).

    c) Government Notice No 758 published in Government Gazette No 31232 dated 18 July 2008: Accounting Officer – profession whose members qualify in terms of section 60: Chartered Institute of Business Management, in terms of the Close Corporation Act, 1984 (Act No 69 of 1984).

    d) Government Notice No 772 published in Government Gazette No 31247 dated 18 July 2008: Incorporation of an external company as a company in the Republic of South Africa: Rocsi Holdings (Pty) Ltd, in terms of the Companies Act, 1973 (Act No 61 of 1973).

    e) Government Notice No 836 published in Government Gazette No 31301 dated 8 August 2008: Standards matters, in terms of Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).

    f) Government Notice No 924 published in Government Gazette No 31371 dated 29 August 2008: Media, Advertising and Communication M (MAC) Sector Charter on Black Economic Empowerment, in terms of Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Act, 2003 (Act No 53 of 2003).

    g) Government Notice No 957 published in Government Gazette No 31402 dated 5 September 2008: Incorporation of an external company as a company in the Republic of South Africa: HIS (PTY) LTD, in terms of Companies Act, 1973 (Act No 61 of 1973).

    h) Government Notice No 66 published in Government Gazette No 31443 dated 26 September 2008: Standards matters, in terms of Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).

  5. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry a) Report and Financial Statements of Inkomati Catchment Management Agency for 2007-2008, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2007-2008 [RP 138-2008].

National Council of Provinces

  1. The Chairperson

    (a) Notice Issued in terms of section 106 of the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act, 2000 (Act No 32 of 2000): Thembisile Local Municipality. Referred to the Select Committee on Local Government and Administration.

    (b) Government Notice No R.954 published in Government Gazette No 31397, dated 3 September 2008: Draft regulations for the adjustment of prescribed fees in terms of section 36, read with section 40C, of the Pension Funds Act, 1956 (Act No 24 of 1956).

    Referred to the Select Committee on Finance for consideration.

    (c) A letter from the Minister of Finance, dated 6 October 2008, containing a report to the National Assembly on the use of R1,3 billion from the National Revenue Fund to defray claims expenditure by the Road Accident Fund, authorised and tabled in terms of section 16 of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1 of 1999).

    Referred to the Select Committee on Finance for consideration and
    to the Select Committee on Public Services.
                     MONDAY, 3 NOVEMBER 2008


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

  1. Withdrawal of Bills The Minister for Intelligence Services withdrew the following Bills on 30 October 2008:

    (1) Protection of Information Bill [B 28 - 2008] (National Assembly - sec 75).

    (2) Intelligence Services Amendment Bill [B 37 - 2008] (National Assembly - sec 75).

    (3) National Strategic Intelligence Amendment Bill [B 38 – 2008] (National Assembly - sec 75).


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

  1. Report of the Mediation Committee on the Mandating Procedures of Provinces Bill [B8B – 2007] and [B8D – 2007] (National Council of Provinces – sec 76(2)), dated 22 October 2008:

    The Mediation Committee, having considered the Mandating Procedures of Provinces Bill [B8B – 2007] and [B8D – 2007] (National Council of Provinces – sec 76(2)), as well as the papers referred to it, reports that it has agreed to a new version of the Bill [B8F – 2007].

                   WEDNESDAY, 5 NOVEMBER 2008


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces The Speaker and the Chairperson

  1. Assent by President in respect of Bills

    (1) Social Housing Bill [B 29D – 2007] – Act No 16 of 2008 (assented to and signed by President on 1 November 2008).

    (2) Insurance Laws Amendment Bill [B 26B – 2008] – Act No 27 of 2008 (assented to and signed by President on 1 November 2008).

    (3) Jurisdiction of Regional Courts Amendment Bill [B 48D – 2007] – Act No 31 of 2008 (assented to and signed by President on 1 November 2008).


National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

  1. The Minister of Finance

    (a) Proclamation No 42 published in Government Gazette No 31525 dated 20 October 2008: Commencement of the Diamond Export Levy Act, 2007 (Act No 15 of 2007) and section 21 of the Diamond Export Levy (Administration) Act, 2007 (Act No 14 of 2007).

    (b) Government Notice No R1140 published in Government Gazette No 31529 dated 23 October 2008: Amendment of Schedule No 1 (No 1/1/1365), in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

  2. The Minister of Trade and Industry (a) Government Notice No 1021 published in Government Gazette No 31443 dated 26 September 2008: Standards matters, in terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).

      Please Note: The above item replaces item 4(h) under Tablings of
      the Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports of 31 October
      2008, as published on page 2031.
  3. The Minister of Minerals and Energy

    (a) Report of the Mine Health and Safety Inspectorate for 2007-2008 [RP 261-2008].

                    THURSDAY, 6 NOVEMBER 2008


National Council of Provinces

  1. Report of the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs on the Consumer Protection Bill [B19D-2008] (National Council of Provinces – sec 76), dated 4 November 2008:

    The Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs, having considered the Consumer Protection Bill [B19D-2008] (National Council of Provinces – sec 76), amended by the National Assembly and referred to the Committee, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.