THURSDAY, 05 JUNE 2008 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 14:05.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                          NOTICE OF MOTION

Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:

That the Council –

  1) notes that Michael Andile Plata, a 24-year-old man who was involved
     in the brutal gang rape of a 22-year-old Free State woman, was
     given a life sentence for his part in this heinous crime;


  2) further notes that the young woman had also contracted HIV after
     the rape;


  3) realises that the rape and abuse of women is a crime which is out
     of control and thus supports the magistrate’s decision to hand a
     life sentence to Plata;


  4) hopes that the other perpetrators are also given life sentences for
     their part in the crime; and


  5) applauds the young woman for her bravery in identifying Plata in an
     identity parade as well as testifying in court.

             SIXTH ORDER TO BE DEALT WITH AS ORDER THIRD

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I wish to move without notice:

That Order No 6 which is under Further Business on today’s Order Paper, namely Consideration of Report of Parliamentary Oversight Authority on Facilities for Members of National Assembly and Permanent Delegates to the National Council of Provinces (L19), be moved above the line and dealt with as Order No 3. Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 22 - Safety and Security, and Vote No 20 - Independent Complaints Directorate:

The MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Chairperson and hon members of the House, there are some principles that I would want to place before this House to remind us of what we need to do as the South African nation as we create conditions for a better life for all our people under conditions of peace and stability. The South African Constitution is quite clear about this as indicated in the principles that govern national security. Section 198(a) of the Constitution says the following, and I quote:

National security must reflect the resolve of South Africans, as individuals and as a nation, to live as equals, to live in peace and harmony, to be free from fear and want and to seek a better life.

The principles place a responsibility on the security services of the country to create an environment that is necessary to produce conditions that are described in the section I have quoted but it would be extremely wrong to interpret this section as an instruction to the security services only. The entire South African nation is enjoined by this section and other sections that relate to national security to also take responsibility for the creation of circumstances for peace and stability in our country as the best guarantor for a better life for all.

We can’t, for instance, deploy security services to ensure that South Africans live as equals or live in peace and harmony. Our communities must be involved in the removal of all obstacles and challenges to our sacred belief that “South Africa belongs to all who live in it, united in our diversity” - as the Constitution says – and in the commitment we made as a nation when we adopted the Constitution that we would “heal the divisions of the past and establish a society based on democratic values, social justice and fundamental human rights”.

One of the biggest challenges we faced as a nation in recent times was the outbreak of violence in all our provinces related to the so-called xenophobic attitudes to foreign nationals in South Africa. The explosion of hate we saw was condemned by all South Africans who believe that “everyone has inherent dignity and the right to have their dignity respected and protected,” as our Constitution says.

The question that arises is whether all our people understand the South African Constitution with regard to the values it espouses such as human dignity, equality, human rights, nonracism and nonsexism. If they don’t, then we must blame ourselves as their chosen representatives sitting in this House and elsewhere in our chain of public representation and government.

Government has a role in all of this, but so do we as representatives of the people. We also, through an Act of Parliament, created entities to support our constitutional democracy – the so-called Chapter 9 Institutions. Two of the entities, going forward, will have an important role to play in the effort to educate our people about the principles that define our constitutional democracy.

These two Chapter 9 Institutions are the SA Human Rights Commission, which is enjoined to promote respect for human rights, and for the protection, development and attainment of human rights, and the Commission for the Promotion and the Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic communities, which works to promote and develop peace, friendship, humanity, tolerance and national unity among the people.

The call I am making, therefore, is that all of us, united in action, must do whatever is necessary for us to deal with the negative energy that continues to enslave some of our people. To some people it still looks as if we have not outlawed the apartheid laws which fuelled conflict among people on the basis of skin pigmentation, ethnicity, tribalism and nationalism.

I am raising these matters because we continue to see examples of elements of racism in our country. We continue to see elements of ethnicity, and the outbreak of violence the other day speaks to the issues represented by regionalism. Let us accept that there will always be foreign nationals in South Africa, given the political and economic stability that define the current democratic dispensation.

South Africa, therefore, will continue to welcome into its borders migrants from countries in the world where there are political conflicts, wars and depressed economies. Some of those migrants started flowing into South Africa many years ago. They were eventually assimilated within our communities and naturalised. They helped to build our economy and played significant roles in our social and cultural development. Some of them, as a matter of fact, voted as South Africans in the democratic breakthrough that was underpinned by the 1994 general election.

Our belief in peace and friendship, as is indicated in the Freedom Charter of the African National Congress, must guide us as we define better relations between our people and those who come from foreign lands.

I must at this point, hon Chairperson, pay warm tribute to all those South Africans who joined hands to come to the rescue of those who were affected by the violence. And I do want to say that in many of the areas where this was happening there is now a great sense of community development as well as community organisation.

In those circumstances, our people came out, spoke to the residents of those communities and tried to make them understand the truth that all of us belong to one big family. It does not matter whether we come from the African continent or from other lands, we all belong to the human race and in the majority of cases together we contribute towards defining a new order right across the world that will see in the end a defeat of all the problems that continue to assail our people and our communities.

Here I am talking of the problems that arise as a consequence of conflict and war; problems that arise as a consequence of weak economic conditions; consequences that arise as a result of unemployment, homelessness, starvation and joblessness; consequences that arise simply because as countries and as nations of the world we have not been able to rise to the challenges that relate to the health of our people and where diseases that attack our people are in fact the kinds of diseases that can be cured.

We have shied away from the responsibility of doing that and we have perhaps not done enough in order for us to find medicines and antidotes to some of the diseases which, at this time, seem to be incurable.

But, Chairperson and hon members, I want to go back to the matter of national unity and how we, in the ruling party, have understood the roles of the various stakeholders in the promotion of peace and stability in South Africa. I want to revisit this matter because of the response in the National Assembly yesterday when I made a call to all law-abiding citizens ``to be involved in the various elements of crime prevention and combating in our country, to create an environment conducive to the building of peace and stability’’. This is what I said yesterday in the National Assembly. And I must say that I was surprised when some of the members of that House responded with jeers and maybe even disbelief when I made this call.

Members of the opposition, unfortunately, seem to harbour this notion that only government using the security services must be involved in that kind of work. They do not believe in the involvement of our communities in the project to build peace and stability in our country. I do want to tell you that the security services are not a panacea to all our social, economic and political problems in the country. The people who can address those problems are us here and elsewhere who understand the injunctions of our Constitution; who understand fully therefore what building blocks we need to put in place in order for us to produce a South Africa that indeed will be peaceful and stable. As far back as 1992, before we came into power, we understood that the police needed to be involved in a solid partnership with the people so that their work could be enhanced. We said, among other things, and I quote:

The community must be encouraged and assisted to assume a more active role in crime prevention and in the policing of their areas.

The reason we have to revamp the community police forums is to give them the power and resources to fulfil their function, CPFs, of co-ordinating that partnership within the communities and the police. There are already some areas in our country where the CPFs are doing wonderful work through the creation of those partnerships. Where they exist crime levels have been reduced significantly in those areas.

There are also partnerships between the police and organs of civil society, including the organisations within the sectors of workers, business and religion. Working together, therefore, with the presidential Big Business Working Group and the National Religious Leaders Forum, we have been able to put in place programmes and partnerships that indeed help to reduce the levels of crime.

Big business is investing huge resources to help with this matter and some of the work that it is doing has indeed related to the question of partnerships. [Interjections.]

Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: Thank you very much, Chairperson. With due respect, with regard to Rule 33, I know heckling is allowed in Parliament but when it goes on to the extent that it denies me a chance to hear what the hon Minister is saying, it becomes very unparliamentary because the hon young member next to me is just making it impossible for me to hear the Minister. I have tried to negotiate politely; I am seeking a divine intervention.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Hon members, heckling is parliamentary and is allowed, but the hon Mr Windvoёl is quite correct that when it becomes too loud and disturbs other people, then it is out of order. Can I request, Mr Watson, that you give other people a hearing. Sorry, hon Minister, we’ll add one minute to your time.

The MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Thank you very much, Chairperson, I want to request you to allow me to also make a general observation. That observation is that unfortunately in South Africa, we don’t have a reformatory where we can try to change some of the beliefs as well as the behaviour of some people. We unfortunately don’t have that.

Under similar circumstances in the NA yesterday, I said Chairperson … [Interjections.]

Mr A WATSON: Hon Chairperson, is it parliamentary for the hon Minister to insinuate that people of other parties belong in reformatories? What is he inferring?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! There is nothing wrong with that. You may continue, hon Minister.

The MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: I said in the NA yesterday that under similar circumstances and conditions maybe what we should consider as Parliament is to look at the environment that exists around Parliament and remove therefore all circumstances that may be impacting on the sobriety of the Houses of Parliament. [Laughter.]

The past five years have seen some new developments in the work and structure of the SA Police Service. One of the principles adopted by the service was to push more and better resources of personnel and material to the local stations. An instrument was developed to track performance levels in the provinces and at police stations. The chart is used to rate those structures regularly and help those whose performance levels are low in a bid to improve their output.

A current reading of the chart indicates that the best performing provinces are Limpopo, Northern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal in that order. The order changes, of course, from period to period. There are many variables that impact on the output and outcomes of provinces and police stations, therefore what is produced will not allow for a constant rating. The chart also shows that there has been a great improvement, generally, in the task to rid our country of crime.

The best performing stations in the various provinces therefore are the following: In the Eastern Cape it is Barkly East, Maletswai, Hankey and Mbizeni; in the Free State it is Steunmekaar, Wanda and Koppies; in Gauteng it is Sebokeng, Jabulani, Orlando and Heidelberg; in KwaZulu-Natal it is Ezibayeni, Mountain Rise, Ubombo, Mkuze and Bishopstowe; in Limpopo it is Mphephu, Tolwe, Malipsdrift, Tshamatumbu, Tshaulu, Tshitale, Bulgerivier, Dorset, Haenertsburg, Saselamani, Motetema, Makuya, Bandelierkop, Witpoort, Tubatse, Makhado, W M Makhubela, Roedtan, Masisi, Alldays, Rust de Winter, Tom Burke, Levubu, Vuwani, Tzaneen, Waterpoort, Mutale and Matlala; in Mpumalanga it is Fernie, Ekulindeni and Mahamba; in North West it is Mokopong, Bray, Piet Plessis, Atamelang, Stilfontein, Vorstershoop and Mooifontein; in the Northern Cape it is Boetsap, Colesberg, Calvinia, De Aar, Loeriesfontein, Hopetown, Sutherland, Victoria West, Strydenburg, Pofadder, Alexanderbaai, Keimoes, Williston, Loxton, Kleinzee, Vosburg and Marydale; while in the Western Cape it is Laingsburg, Montagu, Ladismith, Van Rhynsdorp, Oudtshoorn, Robertson, Riviersonderend, Graafwater, Clanwilliam, Vredendal, Caledon, Riversdale, Nuwerus, Doringbaai, Porterville, Citrusdal, Paarl East, Paarl, Picketberg, Hermanus, Redelinghuys, Bredasdorp and Dysselsdorp.

If some of the provinces seem to have longer lists it is because I have mentioned all stations that have ratings that are higher than 69,9%.

The performance of the stations vis-à-vis crime combating will be indicated in the crime trend report that will be published during this month. I do want to indicate though that where partnerships with the communities are in place, the police have received high rankings and have done well to create better conditions for safety and security for the people.

As far as budget allocations are concerned, since the 2000-01 financial year, the operational budgets of the provinces have increased from R1,8 billion to R4,6 billion in the last financial year. In the past five years therefore the percentage increases have been 12,2%; 19,2%; 12,2%; 13,2% and 13,4%. The average growth therefore has been between 7% and 10%.

With respect to personnel, the budget allocation has helped us to recruit 54 120 members who were distributed amongst the various provinces since the 2002-03 financial year. In total, that means a 45% increase. By the 2010-11 financial year there will be an increase of 69% represented by additional personnel of 82 300. The ratio between members of the service and the population on average defines a police officer as the minder of 370 members of the population. That ratio needs to come down still, but it’s better than the average for developed countries across the world whose average is 1:400. The United Nations benchmark ranges between 1:300 to 1:500. Our average in 2002 was 1:488 and we improved that slightly the following year to 1:475.

In the 2006-2007 financial year, and of course the current year, we were able to build new police stations in all the provinces. In the Eastern Cape we built the stations at Bisho, Sulenkama, Mdantsane, NU 1 and Motherwell.

Construction work started in February this year at Cradock. In February 2007 the Verkykerskop station in the Free State was completed. A tender was issued on April 13 2008 for the building of the Thabong Community Safety Centre. In Gauteng we completed the construction of the stations of Mamelodi East, Eersterus, Duduza and Thokoza. The building of Diepsloot, Kagiso and Tsakane police stations has been put out to tender. The construction of the Tembisa police station will start soon.

Between September 2006 and July 2007 we completed the stations of Ezakheni, Ceza and Nsuze in KwaZulu-Natal. Construction work at Inanda, all being equal, will be finalised next month. Last year, in January and May, we started the construction of the M W Makhubela, Matoks and Jane Furse police stations in Limpopo.

During the current financial year, we will complete the police stations at Letsitele and Musina.

The station at Pienaar in Mpumalanga will be completed next month. We had problems with respect to the finalisation of that project given the scarcity of building materials. The Mbuzini station is under construction and Hazyview will be completed in March next year.

Building work started in North West at Amalia; and Mooifontein, as people from North West will remember, was opened last month. Klipgat in Mabopane will await the outcome of the tender process. Khuma was completed at the end of last year.

Hout Bay, Saron and Paarl East in the Western Cape have been completed. Hout Bay and Saron were officially opened and Paarl East will be opened some time this month.

In conclusion, let me refer also to a few other things. The matter of the Executive Director of the ICD continues to be a problem, but we have started a process to search for a new person to take over as the executive director.

There are problems also with respect to the Security Industry Regulatory Authority, Sira. The life of the current council is coming to an end. We have approached Cabinet to ask for an extension. We will appoint the new board in due course. But there is a problem there - the executive director has been suspended pending investigations relating to alleged malpractices.

The last thing I want to say is that, hon member Mzizi, I’m happy you raised the issue of rape. That is what is troubling South Africa at this time. The great majority, 80%, of all crimes of a serious and violent nature, including murder and rape, happen among people who know one another in circumstances where both the perpetrator and the victim are often seen together. Again, we want more in that situation than just conventional policing. We want our people to be united to rid South Africa of that scourge. Thank you very much, Chairperson. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Kgoshi Mokoena, you’ve got 12 minutes.

Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Thank you Chairperson, I thought that as a traditional leader I will get some as a bonus. Chairperson, my dynamic and calculated Minister, hon MECs, special delegates, chairpersons of committees in our respective provinces, let me express my sincere thanks to Deputy Commissioner Stander and her team of senior management for their co- operation during budget hearings. In last year’s budget debate, we identified things that needed the attention of the department. It is pleasing to report that many of those issues have been addressed. This is the kind of leadership we as a committee are not ashamed to associate ourselves with.

While on the leadership issue, the same cannot be said about the senior management and the leadership of Mpumalanga province. Hon Minister, we have been to Mpumalanga for a whole week, visiting police stations. The deputy provincial commissioner and her senior management accompanied the committee wherever they went. The committee was excited, blessed and pleased to have been in the company of MEC Mahlalela, who was very helpful in giving the committee some information. Thank you very much, MEC Mahlalela.

The kind of leadership in the senior management that we have in that province leaves much to be desired. It is in this province where we asked questions and were promised that we would get responses within a week, but to date it is exactly four months and we haven’t received any responses to those questions. We are still awaiting answers from the same senior management. To be specific, we went to Mpumalanga from 25 to 29 February 2008; today is 5 June, and there is still no word from that province.

Hon Minister, something must be done to remedy the situation. We are calling for your immediate intervention. The committee would appreciate getting feedback as to the kind of action that is going to be taken to rescue our people down there. Some people there are even saying it looks as if the senior management are on honeymoon.

Just to remind hon members, it is in this province that a woman was locked in a cell with males, and you can imagine what happened to that woman the whole night. No action was taken against those negligent police officials until the committee intervened. It was only then that some action was taken.

Among the entities that presented their budget to the committee was the National Secretariat. We did not conclude our deliberations because there are many things that are not right in this entity. We have therefore requested that we meet them immediately after we have concluded our budget debate. What I can say, Minister, is that in this entity there is a lot that needs to be done.

The committee called another meeting with the National Secretariat in a week’s time and we hope we’ll get some answers then. I suggest the hon Minister deploys someone from his office to be part of this meeting so that we sing from the same hymn book. That is all I can say about the National Secretariat for today.

Chairperson, I learned there was too much noise in the other House about the ICD yesterday. All this entity needs from all of us is our support. I have requested the liaison officer in your office, hon Minister, to arrange for an urgent meeting with your office. I hope it will take place very soon. The meeting is very urgent, looking at the environment in which the ICD finds itself. The committee has an opinion about the ICD and all the conflicts around there but we deemed it fit that before we could make our opinion known, the only logical and good thing to do would be to talk to the Minister. Another challenge that needs to be attended to expeditiously is the demarcation of police precincts. There are areas where people cannot report cases in a police station because the crime has been committed in a place where it is said that it is not under their jurisdiction regardless of how close the police station is to a particular village. This must be addressed expeditiously. I am glad that there is a Bill on the way that is going to rectify this.

The committee complained about the number of female detectives in our police stations. I am glad to see that 633 female detectives were trained during 2007-08 in various courses. It is pleasing to see that the department walks the talk.

One worrying issue is the state of our police stations in provinces. Some are old, dilapidated and some of their ablution facilities are in a very bad state. When we enquired about this from the departments over which we play our oversight role, their only response was to point fingers at the Department of Public Works.

Hon, Minister, we have tried our best as this committee to talk to Public Works. We would be happy if we could get a helping hand from you, but, at committee level, we have arranged with our colleague, the Chairperson of the Select Committee on Social Services, hon Tau, to also come on board. As you know, if a wheelbarrow cannot move, do not just put it down because it cannot move; you have to push it all the way. That is all we are prepared to do now as far as Public Works is concerned.

Before my time is up, I want to say to the Deputy Minister, Comrade Susan Shabangu, that you have our full support on your “shoot-to-kill” statement. This country cannot be held hostage by these few unwanted elements. To our police all we can say is, “yes, go for them”.

My colleagues will deal with shortages of staff in many of our police stations as well as conditions in those particular police stations. So I will leave that to my colleagues.

A plan needs to be devised to fill posts that have been lying vacant for some time. The question of skills shortages cannot be left unattended. Drastic measures should be taken before it becomes a crisis.

Whilst I commended the training of female detectives, one should highlight the shortage of office space. Given the fact that detectives deal with sensitive information, they ought to be allocated proper office accommodation. They are working in very trying times.

Go a swabiša ka gore ka nako tše dingwe o hwetša go tlile mohumagadi a lla ka la gore o katilwe gomme go nyakege gore a fe bopaki go monyakišiši. Bjale o hwetše a swanetše gore a ntšhe diphiri tša gore o katilwe bjang, o be a apere tša ka gare tše di bjang. Gape o ka se bolele dilo tše pele ga motho yo mongwe. Ge ba filwe sebaka sa gore ba itshebe ba nnoši go ka ba kaone mong’aka. Ba hlokomeleng, hle re a kgopela. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[Sometimes it is humiliating for a woman to report a rape case because of the cross-examination process in court. She is forced to reveal all the shameful information about how she got raped. Things like that are embarrassing to disclose in public. It would be better if women reporting these cases were given the kind of privacy that they deserve, sir. Please treat these women carefully.]

Hon Minister, there is a serious allegation levelled against the police dealing with domestic violence cases. The allegation is that police will arrest the perpetrator, who is a man in most cases, on a Friday only to release him on Monday. The only snag is that that very same police officer will visit the perpetrator’s wife during the weekend, saying that he is going there to protect the wife of that very husband who is arrested and sitting in jail. Something fishy is going on here! We are all looking forward to the 2010 Fifa Soccer World Cup which will happen very soon. We know about the soccer fans from a particular country that have a reputation of causing trouble in the stadiums, regardless of whether their country wins or loses. Knowing that this unruly behaviour might happen in our country, we need to ask ourselves how ready we are in terms of crowd control. I hope there is particular training being given to these officers to deal with that kind of behaviour.

Lastly, all police stations we visited complained about the shortage of bulletproof vests. Luckily enough, hon Minister, in your office you have one dynamic member, a commissioner who is so dynamic and good and who can also listen. That’s the skill that this member possesses. That is Commissioner Makhubela. If there is any other position that you can promote him to, please don’t be ashamed, hon Minister. Promote him as well! He is a very good commissioner.

I thank this commissioner because in one particular police station we asked a very difficult question but he was there to respond on the spot. Those are the kinds of people we want to see, hon Minister. We thank this commissioner. If he is not around, please convey our sincere thanks to him.

Colleagues, well done to you! I received feedback from provinces that people appreciate all your efforts. All I can say to you is that the fruits of our labour will last longer than the colour of our skin. I therefore move that all parties should support this Budget Vote. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you for respecting the time limit, hon Kgoshi. You have acted as a leader.

Mr D A WORTH: Hon Chairperson, Ministers, MECs present, hon members, the DA wishes firstly to thank those dedicated police officials who try to prevent crime and detect criminals often under extremely difficult and dangerous circumstances. I’d also like to thank the department profusely for the detailed presentations.

The budget for Safety and Security increased by 11,2% for the 2008-2009 period to R40,4 billion. Despite the significant increase in police personnel, one of the major problems in my province, the Free State, and in particular for the farmers along the Lesotho border, is livestock theft.

From 2001 to date, some 27 903 cases of livestock theft were reported. It is estimated that 30% to 40% of livestock theft is not even reported. Some 300 farmers along a border of approximately 370km live in fear of their property and livelihood, which has financial and socioeconomic consequences and reduces the value of the farms in these areas.

In a period of only six years, from 2001 to 2006, some 245 people alone were murdered on farms in the Free State province. As a result of the deteriorating situation, Free State Agriculture has had no other option but to institute court action against the state for failing to uphold the safety and security of this country’s citizens in terms of the Constitution.

Most of South Africa’s borders are poorly, if at all, patrolled. The fact that people migrate for socioeconomic reasons is as old as mankind itself. People migrate from South Africa, for example, to Australia or Canada, from India and the Middle East to the United Kingdom, from other countries to the United States, often bringing many skills with them. However, some border control, surely, is required to keep out the criminal element and to control the number of immigrants allowed in?

Whilst not being xenophobic, the large influx of people has placed an intolerable burden on an already weak infrastructure which cannot provide adequate education, medical care, housing, water, electricity and transport for the existing South African population. It is estimated that many millions of people from Somalia, Malawi, Zambia, the DRC and Zimbabwe have entered South Africa through our porous borders.

Home Affairs has also failed to implement a policy that would exploit much- needed foreign skills and ensure border controls so that South Africa received political refugees and a volume of migration that it could cope with.

The report of the Auditor-General of January 2008 states: “The SAPS had a 71% undercapacity with regard to borderline operations.” Furthermore:

One thousand posts were specifically allocated to borderline law enforcement and security for the 2005-06 financial year. The above allocation was in terms of an SANDF exit and a SAPS entry strategy. As demonstrated, most of the posts were not allocated to borderline policing.

The report states further that there are currently between 3 million and 5 million illegal immigrants in South Africa, which represents between three and five million breaches of border control and security.

Further in this damning report, the Auditor-General states – can you believe it? – and again I quote:

Trains passing through South Africa’s land ports and/or borderlines were in general not subjected to borderline-control inspections.

As a result, there was an increase in smuggling – and these are the Auditor- General’s comments, not mine – of illegal contraband, for instance weapons, drugs and low-quality cigarettes, a loss of revenue to the government, and the importation of agricultural products without clearance, thereby spreading the risk of disease.

I believe that what goes around comes around. When the disturbances started, the police were caught napping and had no capacity to handle the wave of xenophobic violence that swept the country. Police experts have long warned that a 2006 restructuring of the SAPS crippled its capacity to deal with public disturbances. The specialist crime-combating units, the, Commercial Crime Units, CCUs, as they’re known, were drastically cut, sending half of them to local police stations. The SANDF, as a result, were called in to support the police.

The big question was: Who was to blame for the wave of xenophobia? Let’s blame apartheid. No, we can’t blame apartheid. Let’s blame colonialism. No, we can’t blame colonialism. [Interjections.] Let’s blame Jan van Riebeeck and Harry die Strandloper. [Interjections.] No, no, no, no. Somebody must be to blame. Let’s blame the “third force”.

If you believe that, then you believe in Goldilocks, Granny Goose and the ANC. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mnr N J MACK: Voorsitter, Minister, LUR’e, spesiale afgevaardigdes, lede van die departement en gaste, ek is vandag verbaas dat daar niks gesê word oor die Skerpioene nie.

Gister is daar baie daaroor gepraat, maar vandag is hulle doodstil, maar ek dink tog ons moet ook net ’n paar goed regstel. In Suid-Afrika vandag, soos ek en seker baie ander mense hom sien, is daar beslis `n baie beter infrastruktuur. Daar is meer huise gebou; daar is beter elektrisiteitverskaffing; en baie meer mense het water in die huis en hoef nie meer by die riviere te gaan water haal nie. Ek was een van daardie wat as ’n student in Genadendal water uit ’n sloot moes uithaal om te kan drink. Dit is vandag ver in die verlede. So wanneer die agb Worth daardie stelling maak van strukture en dienslewering wat nie daar is nie of wat nie heeltemal daar is nie, dan dink ek ons moet mooi kyk waarvandaan ons kom.

Oor vreemdelingehaat moet ons baie versigtig wees wanneer ons skuld en blaam wil plaas. My gevoel is dat dié ding ook ’n rasseinslag het en daar is, soos die Minister gesê het, nog sterk elemente van rasissme in die land. Ons moet net let op waar die ding vandaan kom en dat dit nie teen ’n rasseagtergrond gesien word nie. Ek wil net daarteen maan.

Daar is ’n spreekwoord of ’n gesegde wat lui, “Die arm van die gereg is lank.” In ooreenstemming met daardie gesegde wil ek vir u sê dat die arm van dié Gekose Komitee oor Sekuriteit en Grondwetlike Ontwikkeling, onder die goeie leierskap van die agb Mokoena, se arm is sommer baie lank ten opsigte van debatvoering, werklewering, insette gee, betrokkenheid, deursigtigheid en verdraagsaamheid om sodoende ooreenstemming te bereik op talle terreine van die regering. U kon gehoor het van die voorsitter dat hy nie bang is om te sê wanneer daar goed verkeerd is nie. En dit is die soort opregtheid waarmee ons moet voortgaan.

Vandag is die dag vir die Skerpioene en die DA probeer aanhoudend die persepsie weergee dat die SA Polisiediens nie geskik genoeg is om misdaad soos die Skerpioene te kan bekamp nie. [Tussenwerpsels.]

’n AGB LID: Julle onderskat die polisie!

Mnr N J MACK: Indien sodanige persepsie dan waar is, sê dan vir my hoekom sukkel korrektiewe dienste dan met korrektiewe sentrums wat oorvol is? Wie vang dié mense? Is dit onsigbares? Die Skerpioene het 500 lede, terwyl die polisiediens oor duisende beskik. Wil julle vir my sê 500 gaan die werk doen van al die polisiemanne? En wat doen dit aan die moraal van ons eie polisie om gedurig afgekraak te word? [Tussenwerpsels.] Wat doen dit aan hulle moraal? Dit is die mense wat op die voetsoolvlak is en ons elke keer beskerm. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr N J MACK: Chairperson, Minister, MECs, special delegates, members of the department and guests, I am surprised that no mention has been made of the Scorpions today.

Yesterday a lot was said about them, but today they are dead quiet, yet I do believe we should clarify a few things. The way I see it, and surely many other people as well, we definitely have a much better infrastructure in the present South Africa. More houses have been built, there is a better electricity supply and a lot more people’s homes have water so that they no longer have to fetch water from a river. As a student in Genadendal I was one of those who had to fetch water from a ditch in order to drink. That is now in the distant past. So, when the hon Worth makes the statement regarding structures and service delivery that is nonexistent or not quite in place, I believe that we should just consider how far we have come.

We should be very careful when making accusations and apportioning blame regarding xenophobia. I feel that this matter also has a racial element and that, as the Minister has said, there are still strong elements of racism in the country. We should just take note where it’s coming from and not see it against a racial background. I just want to warn against that.

There is an expression or saying that refers to, “the long arm of the law”. In keeping with that expression, I can tell you that the arm of this Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development is quite long with regard to debating, workload, making inputs, involvement, transparency and tolerance so as to reach consensus on many levels of governance. You may have heard the chairperson saying that he would not be afraid to speak up if something seemed wrong. And this is the kind of frankness that we should carry forward.

Today is the day for the Scorpions, and the DA keeps on trying to convey the perception that the SA Police Service is incapable of fighting crime the way the Scorpions have done. [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: You underestimate the police!

Mr N J MACK: If that perception is true, then tell me why Correctional Services are struggling with correctional centres that are overcrowded? Who is catching those people? Are they invisible? The Scorpions have 500 members, while the Police Service commands thousands. Do you want to tell me that 500 are doing the work of all those policemen? And what must it not be doing to the morale of our own police, forever to be run down? [Interjections.] How does it affect their morale? These are the people at grass-roots level who are there to protect us time and again. [Interjections.]]

The ANC, at its 52nd national conference, noted that defeating crime is in the best interests of the national democratic revolution. Therefore, it is very important that this budget gives effect to our call to defeat crime.

The retraining of members of the SA Police Service was earlier recommended in a key ANC document called “Policing Transition: Transforming the Police”. The RDP document said that national standards and training must be combined with community-based structures to ensure answerability to the communities served.

The notion of retraining is transformatory in nature, other than just merely providing technical and psychological skills. Police conduct and practices should be in line with the Constitution and the progressive ideals of the ANC. Our police should be empowered in accordance with nation- building. This relates to how they take up gender-related cases, common crimes, organised and transnational crimes. The police need consistently to acquaint themselves with the principle of presumption of innocence, irrespective of public and media pressure.

En gister het ons dit gesien. Mense moet ophou om alles wat die media sê te glo, alles wat in die koerante staan. Die media bevind jou skuldig lank voordat jy in die hof was. [Gelag.] Ons moet oppas. Ons moet op ’n tydstip kom waar ’n mens maar moet luister na wat die media nié sê nie, want daar is baie goed wat die media nie sê nie.

U weet in my jong jare, en dis ’n storie wat tussen die mense vertel word wat jy nooit in die media sien nie, het ’n polisieman gesit, en wanneer daar `n bruinman verbygehardloop kom, dan het jy hom gevang, selfs al was hy onskulding. Hy is dan gevra: “Maar waarvandaan hardloop jy weg?” En as jy sê nee, jy hardloop maar net, jy het geen moeilikheid daar agter gemaak nie, dan het hy jou maar gevang aangesien jy op pad was om te gaan moeilikheid maak. [Gelag.] Ons moet wegkom van daardie tyd. Daardie tyd is lankal verby. [Tussenwerpsels.] Ons moet ophou om te luister na mediadruk. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[And we saw this yesterday. People should stop believing everything the media are telling them, whatever the newspapers are printing. The media will find you guilty long before you appear in court. [Laughter.] We should be careful. We should get to a point where we rather listen to what the media are not saying, because there is a lot they aren’t saying.

You know, in my youth – and this is something you will hear among the people, but never in the media – there was a policeman. He would just sit around and whenever a coloured man came running past, he would catch that man, even if he was innocent. The policeman would ask, “But what are you running from?” And if one said you were merely running, and had not caused any trouble back there, then he caught you because you were on your way to cause trouble. [Laughter.] We should get away from those times. Those days are long gone. [Interjections.] We should stop paying attention to media pressure.]

This relates to section 35(3)(h) of the Constitution, which states that a suspect is presumed innocent as a law-abiding person.

This training must also take into account the recent trends of marked xenophobia-related violence and the forthcoming Soccer World Cup events.

Let me speak about metro police. Metro police and the SA Police Service need to build a working relationship in a co-ordinated manner. The reason behind this relates to the ANC’s resolution on building a single police service, involving municipal police, metro police and traffic officers.

Constitutionally and politically, security services should be controlled by the state as an institution, in terms of their practices and in the interests of the public.

Dit is my vrees, Minister, veral wat betref die munisipale polisie, dat elkeen nou maar vir hom ’n polisiemag op die been gaan bring en self die beheer gaan uitoefen - maar waarnatoe lei dit later? Dit is ook net ’n ergernis, want as ’n munisipaliteit genoeg geld het, kan hy ’n munisipale polisiemag bekostig, maar wat van die arm munisipaliteite in die plattelandse gebiede, daar waar ek vandaan kom? Hulle het nie geld vir ’n munisipale polisie nie en ek dink ons moet daarna kyk. My grootste vrees is dat ons nie weer klein polisiemaggies hier en daar wil hê nie. Wie gaan hulle dan beheer? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[It is my concern, Minister, especially regarding the municipal police, that everyone will raise their own police force, of which they will be in charge – but where will this eventually lead us? It will also just be a nuisance, because if a municipality has enough money, it can afford to run a municipal police force. But what about those poor municipalities in the rural areas, where I come from? They do not have the money to run a municipal police force, and I think we should take a look at this. My biggest concern is that we do not want to return to various small police forces here and there. Who is going to control them?]

The Witness Protection Act, Act 112 of 1998, provides for protection and support services to vulnerable witnesses and related persons in judicial proceedings.

The role of witnesses is essential for investigation and prosecution in criminal justice. Witnesses can be overtly or implicitly threatened, harmed or assassinated and must be provided with protection. Those who are prepared to testify under these circumstances deserve to be protected. The ANC supports the budget. [Time expired.] Ms J MOFOKENG (Gauteng): House Chairperson, hon Minister, MECs, and hon members, I represent the smart province and the smart people.

Since 2004, the Premier of Gauteng has identified a number of priorities. Reducing crime is a priority for this term of office and he tasked the MEC for community safety to develop a comprehensive strategy to guide Gauteng’s provincial government towards achieving this objective.

It is clearly understood that reducing crime is directly intertwined with all our core objectives with regard to strengthening the economy so that we can reduce poverty and unemployment. If we are to compete internationally and achieve our targeted economy growth rate of 8% for Gauteng, we need to ensure that our people and those that seek to visit our province are unencumbered by the threat and experience of crime and violence.

To this effect, in August 2006, the Gauteng provincial executive adopted the provincial safety strategy to improve community safety through reducing crime. This strategy is a result of a process of distillation of key objectives that, if achieved, would continually improve the capacity of the Gauteng provincial government to understand and proactively reduce crime over the eight-year period ending in 2014. Apart from the long-term nature of the strategy, a number of immediate objectives are in the process of being realized to promote safety well before 2010. The strategy consists of the following four pillars: improving the quality of policing, promoting effective social crime prevention initiatives, strengthening institutional arrangements to better understand and respond to crime in an integrated manner and encouraging community participation in crime reduction.

I am going to be looking at the four pillars, of which improving the quality of policing is the first. There is a continued improvement in the Gauteng provincial government’s capacity to track crime and monitor police performance through the province so that we can become proactive in our responses. The Gauteng Information on Police Performance System, better known as GIPPS, was developed and finalised. This system brings together qualitative and quantitative information on crime policing across the province. As part of this system, there is now a monthly police system review process based on the New York Police Department’s CompStat system. In this way, there is a better understanding of a range of specific contexts and environments that our police officers operate in.

In focusing our attention on these challenges and developing solutions, we hope to promote overall improvement in the quality of policing for all our people through the province of Gauteng. Furthermore, a comprehensive electronic tracking system called the Investigation and Management of Police and Citizen Complaints Tool, Impacc, has been introduced to manage and track complaints against the police. This system will help ensure citizens that the process for dealing with the complaints will be tracked, and they will receive feedback on the outcome. As important as it is to ensure that action is taken against poor police conduct and corruption, it is also necessary to demonstrate appreciation and support for those officers who work hard and risk their lives to make our communities safer.

On promoting effective social crime prevention initiatives, which is the second pillar, we have the victim empowerment centres and we have actually managed to get volunteers in the areas. We have different representation. Even with the community police forums and nongovernmental organisations, all of them are working in a forum. Norms and standards for victim empowerment centres have been established and will be rolled out across the province to ensure consistency in the type and quality of services. Regional victim empowerment forums have been established to allow for the sharing of knowledge, experience and best practices. There have been ongoing engagements with local government in an effort to build capacity, streamline provincial and local government programmes for gender-based violence, address local safety needs and strengthen the integrated development plans for safety plans.

When you look at the second pillar, we need to strengthen institutional arrangements to better understand and respond to crime in an integrated manner. Because effective institutional arrangements continue to be a challenge, we recognised crime was a cross-cutting challenge affecting all parts of society and that, to effectively improve safety, different parts of government had to work more closely together.

The third pillar being improving government co-ordination to improve safety, we need to improve co-ordination of government in the province. We have established the following two intergovernmental structures called the Gauteng Safety Co-ordinating Committee and the Gauteng Criminal Justice Committee. The purpose of these forums is to promote and align co- ordination between our plans and strategies for improving safety at the local level.

The fourth pillar is to encourage community participation in crime reduction. We have the Take Charge campaign. It was launched in 2007 to mobilise communities to contribute to improving community safety. As part of this campaign, there are ongoing processes of strengthening community police forums through the provision of accredited training and ensuring that CPFs are structured and function according to minimum standards.

We are providing accredited training with the intention of providing CPF members with specific skills that can enhance their effectiveness and, if necessary, increase employment opportunities. To date, 2 000 patrollers have been trained in the area of Gauteng, and we have seen the success of the patrollers. In Diepsloot, patrollers helped the police to arrest the perpetrators during the xenophobic attacks, and we really commend them for the good work.

There have been engagements with various sectors as part of community mobilisation. This remains an important step in the fight against crime as this sector will bring to the table their various expertise and range of networks that will result in sustainable solutions.

In conclusion, while these efforts are under way, we recognise that crime is still far too high and that there is much work to be done. It is for this reason that we will keep implementing our strategy which will guide us towards further developing our information system, strengthening our capacity and building partnerships to improve safety throughout our province, the smart province of Gauteng. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M A MZIZI: Sihlalo, angibonge ngisho nakuNgqongqoshe kazwelonke noNgqongqoshe bezifundazwe ngithi isandla sedlula ikhanda. Angingene kwesize ngakho. [Chairperson, I humbly greet the Minister and provincial Ministers. Let me go straight to the matter at hand.]

The focus of my contribution today is to ask whether funding given to SA Police Service is being properly spent by its various units. My experience is that the uniformed policing units are almost and always visible and combating crime, but we have to ask whether the criminal investigation department is doing equally well.

The IFP knows that it is this department which focuses on investigation and analysis of cases and ensures that suspects are taken to court. We have to ask how much the department spends to capacitate the personnel in order to ensure that the investigations are up to scratch. More convictions could be achieved if more resources were channelled into this unit.

The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs often finds the situation of cases being thrown out of court because of poor investigation. This happens often in murder and rape cases. In some cases, a shortage of personnel can be blamed. I’m referring to these shortcomings so that more focus is placed on this unit. During our provincial visit to Gauteng at a police station in Kagiso in Krugersdorp, an officer in charge of this section, who was also the head of the investigation, told the Gauteng permanent delegates that he had approximately 80 pending dockets for investigation, while the members of the Community police forum told us that cases investigated at this police station were mostly struck off the roll or withdrawn. Surely this gives a clear message that we need to beef up this section.

Let me also touch on the Independent Complaints Directorate. During the oversight visit to Mpumalanga province, we heard from the person in charge of this section that he does not get enough support from the SAPS. This was evident from an incident at Volksrus police station where a female suspect was placed in a male cell for the whole night. He didn’t know how the matter was handled. It was not only that case, but at all the police stations we visited, he repeated that he didn’t get the necessary support he deserves.

I think the secretariat should be tough so as to investigate and help the Independent Complaints Directorate to beef up its capacity and have good co- operation with the SAPS and give us the level of performance we need.

Ake ngithi nje ukwedlula lapha ngigcizelele lapho inkosi yakwaMokoena eke yathinta khona odlameni lwasekhaya, lapho uma ngabe kuzomangala indoda kube yinhlekisa kuthiwe, hawu, uyindoda enjani eshaywa ngumfazi. Ngakho-ke awusizakali wena. Okunye lokho empeleni okudinga ukuthi kubuye kubhekwe ngoba akubaphathi kahle. Wena wakoMkhulu, cha, nathi siyalibeka igama lokuthi siyakuvumela, Ngqongqoshe, ukuthi imali uyithole. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Let me reiterate what hon Kgoshi Mokoena talked about in connection with domestic violence. When a man lays a charge he becomes a laughing stock; he is asked what kind of a man he is that gets beaten by a woman. And the man ends up not getting help. And this is another area that management needs to work on. To you, the most high, hon Minister, we support the Budget Vote.]

Ms S MNUMZANA (Free State): Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister, MECs present, hon members, ladies and gentlemen present here, we have come a long way since the birth of our democracy and I acknowledge that we still have to confront substantial challenges when it comes to safety and security. We fully understand that effective crime prevention and reduction requires more than simply adequate policing. The police are the public face of government’s efforts to ensure law and order, and to provide a service that enhances the safety and security of the society, and therefore have a direct implication for the way citizens perceive and respond to state authority.

This is the year of mass mobilisation to build a caring society and advance our community towards 2012. To us, mobilising the masses to build a caring society actually implies that as we humanely and morally respond to the felt demands of the socially and economically just society, we also ought not to forget that the ethic of care is the fundamental value in which collaborative responsibility is embedded.

In the context of crime reduction, the 2008 anniversary statement of the ANC eloquently states:

In reviving the culture of mass mobilisation, we must seek active partnerships with civil society, non-governmental organisations and community-based organisations and all other formations, to form a broad front against crime and all social ills afflicting our communities.

Our province has a list of urgent problems. Crime is one of the most pressing problems - the direct pain and trauma it causes, the fear and distress it engenders, and the social and political distortions it creates and reinforces. If we are to build a province – and we clearly have the potential to do that - it is absolutely essential that we build a province that can protect its citizens from the most dangerous of our compatriots.

During the financial year, we shall ensure that effective and strategic partnership is established in each and every ward, and we shall ensure that each and every street is mobilised and ready to drive criminals out of the neighbourhood. We shall engage in the Know Your Neighbour Campaign. This campaign is intended to close the distance among community members. It should build bridges to bring together families and neighbours in a concerted effort to build a caring society. We will mobilise all the religious and faith - based organisations, business, sports bodies and institutions to realise this objective.

Our priority is to build the capacity of the community police forums and renew the mandates of the existing ones. We committed the department of public safety, security and liaison to the creation of a multistakeholder platform that would seek extensive solutions to crime and human rights violation that afflict rural communities, especially in farming in the Free State and Lesotho border areas.

We are delighted to report that a multistakeholder team consisting of the provincial government departments, organised agriculture, organised labour and organised local government managed to draft the Integrated Free State Provincial Rural Safety Strategy. I hope that the hon Worth will participate in making sure that the strategy that has been organised plays a role, rather than complaining every time about things that are happening but not contributing or participating to address issues, especially in the Free State.

The identified rural safety priorities include the delivery of effective, efficient and far-reaching criminal justice services; the empowerment of rural community members through participation in crime prevention initiatives; and the promotion and protection of the basic human rights of all members of rural communities both in farming and along the border areas.

Secondly, we committed the department to the facilitation of cross - border crime reduction along the Free State - Lesotho border. Multiple collaborative relations were established and improved along the Free State

• Lesotho line through selfless endeavours to strengthen the co-ordination and integration of the implementation of a transnational crime reduction policy. These include the establishment and functioning of democratic cross
• border structures to vocalise community safety preferences through district liaison committees and community police forums in border areas.

This year’s budget will be committed to the main project of involving the people of the Free State in standing up to be counted in the fight against crime. Special emphasis will be on the Ke na le matla campaign. The campaign should recreate the spirit of unity and purpose demonstrated by the Luthuli detachment; to mention but a few, comrades such as Lennox Lelahu, Chris Hani, Peter Fani, Douglas Wana, Victor Dlamini, Castro Mashigo and the others. These comrades and many others overcame many obstacles and difficult conditions through dedication, commitment, bravery, united purpose and the love of their people.

The Ke na le matla campaign principally calls upon us as people with an irrepressible sense of patriotism, loyalty and caring to confront the negative forces that see fit to undermine our historic gains over institutional forms of injustice. Our collective ability to prevent and reduce crime and victimisation depends heavily on the extent to which each one of us helps to transform society.

The Ke na le matla campaign aims at doing the following: Develop better social values and greater compassion towards one another in our communities so that people choose not to commit crime but cherish family and community life and reduce the feeling of hopelessness towards crime that some crime- ridden areas experience; mobilise members of our communities to effectively participate in the community police forums, community safety forums and the rest; celebrate the life of Comrade Chris Hani and many other heroes and heroines of our country by recruiting young volunteers to belong to the Chris Hani Peace Ambassadors and mobilise them to protect their communities; ensure that our schools are free from drugs and alcohol abuse and that they are safe for our children to learn effectively and enjoy being there without temptations that lead them astray.

In the new financial year, the traffic directorate currently situated in the department of public roads and transport will be incorporated into our department. This poses new challenges and opportunities for the department of safety, security and liaison and we are looking forward to using this addition to better serve the people of the Free State province.

Lastly, amongst the challenges that we have is the challenge of petitions. Section 17 of the Constitution of South Africa guarantees the right to present petitions. The petition process must be finalised as close to the source as possible, lest justice delayed becomes justice denied. The current processes followed have nullified these constitutional ideals. The question to the Minister therefore would be: What is the department going to do to redress the situation, especially in the light of many deaths of the involved petitioners mainly due to stress-related causes?

Finally, we accept the 2008 challenge of mass mobilisation to build a caring society through the formation of a broad front against crime and all social ills afflicting our communities. We support the Budget Vote. Thank you.

Mr R S NDOU (Limpopo): Hon Chairperson, hon Minister of Safety and Security, hon MECs and hon members of this august House, during our budget speech in May 2007 we indicated that most of the police stations in the province are located strategically to serve the interests of the minority. The state of some of these police stations, their structural designs and location need to be corrected as they perpetuate the legacy of colonial and apartheid systems. The current dispensation has not made allowance for the correction of these distorted anomalies. As a result of this situation our communities continue to be disadvantaged in terms of safety and security.

Our communities continue to complain about the delay in the police arriving at the scene of the crime and their complaints are genuine as the police stations are situated far from them. Our province has a need for more police stations in areas where our people are located in order to promote effective crime prevention strategies and police visibility.

Police stations such as Tuinplaas, Roedtan, Zebediela, Bandelierkop, Letsitele, Levubu, and many others, are good examples of stations that are located far from the people they are supposed to serve.

The province has been experiencing a number of ritual and gruesome killings as well as several persons going missing. We are encouraged by the fact that a suspect in Modimoll has been arrested and appeared in court recently. In Vhembe we have made a number of breakthroughs concerning ritual and gruesome killings. Some people have been convicted while others are still appearing in our courts.

We have sent a recommendation to the office of the premier to initiate the establishment of a commission of inquiry which must be mandated to look into all outstanding cases relating to ritual killings and missing persons. Despite all these challenges the crime level in the Limpopo province has been significantly reduced.

During our consultative engagement with communities and other role-players we encountered an unhealthy development of blaming one another, which is emerging amongst our communities, criminal justice system and other law- enforcement agencies. Our communities blame the police for releasing known criminals while the police blame the criminal justice system partners for releasing suspects without consulting investigating officers.

In this web of accusations and counteraccusations, prosecutors and magistrates blame the police for failing to provide sufficient evidence that can secure a successful conviction. It is important therefore that the criminal justice system should be strengthened by closing ranks with other law-enforcement agencies. This will ensure that our communities are workshopped in order to understand the operations of the criminal justice system.

As a department we have a huge obligation to facilitate the creation of an environment that is helpful in addressing concerns raised by communities with regard to the criminal justice system. We have also realised that our SA Police Service members need training in order to deal with people with disabilities, in particular the blind and the deaf.

The issue of police stations that are far from where our people are is a transformation issue. Transformation is more than the definition you find in the dictionary. Transformation means that you must address issues that affect our communities, particularly in the same way that I have explained here.

During the apartheid days police stations were only found in the farming communities, in the so-called white areas, etc, but where our communities and millions of our people are situated no police stations were found, hence this outcry that police do not arrive in time at the scene of the crime. I am repeating this because I want the House to take it as a serious matter that must be dealt with.

Most of the police stations in the province, and I think nationally too, are still operating as they used to operate during the apartheid days and the homelands days. Do you know why I say this? There is a police station called Tiane in the province. Hon Mokoena would know the Tiane and Waterval police stations.

The Tiane police station used to serve the Shangaan people, and it is not far from the Masakona area, which is a Venda-speaking area. It is about 5 km away from Masakona village. I want to repeat what you were saying. If something happened to the people of Masakona village they could not go to Tiane, which is a mere 5 km away. They had to go to the police station which served the so-called Venda-speaking people. That was during the apartheid or the homelands days.

I will cite another example. For those people who are familiar with Limpopo, they will remember that there was a police station called Sibaza police station, which was meant to serve the small white community. It left more than a hundred villages without any police station. When you go to Polokwane you pass many villages and Levubu is situated somewhere there. It is there to serve the farming community. From Levubu you drive through Makhado and there is a so-called white area and it has a police station. From there you go to Bandelierkop police station … [Time expired.]

Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Mevrou die Voorsitter, dit gebeur nogal heel dikwels dat persone as verdagtes gearresteer word op ’n Vrydag of die begin van ’n langnaweek of selfs gedurende ’n naweek en van tyd tot tyd word hulle vir minder ernstige misdrywe gearresteer. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Madam Chairperson, too often people are arrested as suspects on a Friday, at the start of a long weekend or over a weekend and time and again they are arrested for less serious crimes.]

South African law attaches great value to the freedom of an individual. This underlines the urgency of bail applications and the need to dispose of such applications expeditiously. Section 59 of the Criminal Procedure Act, CPA, makes provision for the granting of police bail in respect of certain less serious crimes. This is an informal process which any police officer, at a certain rank, may grant.

This means that an arrested person must have a reasonable opportunity to apply for bail. It must be properly considered and if refused, reasons must be given for such refusal. Where there is no reason as to why a suspect or arrested person will abscond and where such a person has a fixed address, even if it is a humble dwelling, such a person should be granted bail. The police must not justify punishing by means of unnecessary incarceration.

The CPA gives the police discretion to grant bail. If the prosecutor differs, such a prosecutor can, at the first appearance, apply for amendment of the bail. I do not have the numbers and I will put the question on the Question Paper for a written reply in respect of the numbers of police bail applications, the numbers granted, and the numbers denied or refused. But, according to experience, police stations are reluctant if not unwilling to grant bail, hence prisons are overcrowded. By implication, police stations should regard it as their duty to consider granting bail under certain circumstances.

Die persoon wat in agb Mack se voorbeeld genoem is, sou beslis gekwalifiseer het vir polisieborgtog. Daar mag redes wees waarom polisieborgtog al minder toegestaan word. Dit mag wees dat daar ’n ongeskrewe ooreenkoms is dat polisieborgtog nie meer toegestaan word nie; dit mag wees dat die howe die polisie kritiseer as hulle dalk borg verleen; dit mag wees dat die polisie dalk nie opgelei is om sodanige borgaansoeke te oorweeg nie. Ek weet nie wat die rede is nie, maar daar is ’n bepaalde afname in die verlening van polisieborge en ek dink werklik dat dit gerieflik is. Daar is nie magtiging in die Strafproseswet vir verlening van polisieborg nie. Dis my mening ook dat daar ’n verpligting op die polisie is om in minder ernstige opsigte borg te verleen. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The person mentioned in hon Mack’s example would definitely have qualified for police bail. There may be reasons why police bail is granted less frequently. It may be that there is an unwritten agreement that police bail is not granted anymore; it may be that the courts criticise the police if perhaps they grant bail; it may be that the police are perhaps not trained to consider such bail applications. I do not know what the reasons are, but there is a significant decline in the granting of police bail and I really think that it is a convenience. There is no authorisation in the Criminal Procedure Act for the provision of police bail. It is also my opinion that there is an obligation on the part of the police to grant bail on less serious counts. Thank you.]

Mr W M DOUGLAS: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, the legal mandate of the Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD, entails investigation of all deaths in police custody or because of police action, as well as criminal offences allegedly committed by members of the SA Police Service and the municipal police.

In essence, the ICD was set up to keep the cops honest and to ensure that the officers do their work. However, research that was recently released by the Institute for Security Studies stated that the ICD is basically a toothless body whose recommendations are shrugged off by the SA Police Service.

Concerning the ICD, the ACDP is appalled that only in 58% of cases did the police act in accordance with the ICD’s recommendations of disciplinary or criminal steps against its members. In 25% of 143 investigations, the police ignored what the ICD found and did not reply to the directorate’s letters. Hence, the ACDP supports the 50,7% of the ICD 2008 Budget Vote which goes to complaints processing, monitoring and investigation, which is clearly needed.

What is more concerning is the fact that the ICD is severely short-staffed, with only 247 or 46% of its positions being filled. Of the 247 staff only 100 are investigators who are actively involved in ground work, which means one investigator per 1 630 police officers. Further, the ICD required increased administrative support to successfully perform its duties. We support government’s increase in the funding to the ICD.

Concerning the Minister’s remarks about section 118(a) of the Constitution, I agree with him that the community needs to form a greater part of the work that the police are doing within the communities. The communities, however, are facing serious problems with crime and the police in essence are the last line of defence for the communities on a daily basis. They are the ones that stand between the criminals, the armed thugs or the armed gangs and the community. The police are the only line of defence that we have. There isn’t another line of defence, and as much as the community can participate, there is a sense of defencelessness amongst our people. What can they do when they are accosted on the trains and buses by armed people?

This is, I feel, still the responsibility of the police services and I believe that there is a need for more education within our communities; there is a need for a greater integration of values, values that must last in our communities, that need to be put into our communities. Churches and leaders in communities need to play a role, but I believe there is a need for interaction. I also want to impress the fact that the police are our last line of defence, that is why people try to take the law into their own hands. I support this Vote. Thank you.

Mr L RAMATLAKANE (Western Cape): Chairperson, hon Minister of Safety and Security, Charles Nqakula, colleagues and hon members, just last month when we tabled a budget vote in the Western Cape for this year, we said that things are better in the Western Cape; that the fight against crime is gathering momentum; that our people are rising more and more to the challenge; that today we see community members from all walks of life marching together with the police side by side in the fight against crime; that as a caring ANC government we have steered the ship well; and that in fact today is better than yesterday, compared to when the DA was ruling then.

Therefore, a logical thing that we have to do is in fact to support this Budget Vote, because it is a budget that tells us that the fight against crime is on.

Since we took over five years ago, we have seen more and more people’s energy coming together to fight crime. There is community-building peace in our locations, townships, towns and farms. We have embarked on this journey together with our community and in fact we have not yet reached the destination. We have achieved some successes in the fight against crime and of course we fight together with our people to achieve a better life.

We have reduced, in the past five years in the Western Cape, contact crime by 30,5%. With the same period the past five years during the first season programme, which is called SFS, we have reduced the contact crime by 42% accumulatively. This demonstrates that in fact today is better than yesterday; that we are making progress and the fight against crime is gaining momentum.

Five years ago, we had no relationship between communities and the police in the fight against crime. Today, as we speak, we can say and report that we have mobilised over 8 000 volunteers, Bambanani Volunteers, as peace- builders who are fighting crime with the police in the provinces and the community day by day in our streets. Today we can say that conditions have changed. Today we can say thank you very much to the men and women in blue that are all - day, 24/7 - putting their shoulders to the wheel to make sure that our people have peace of mind.

Yesterday, listening to the debate about the restructuring of the police from the DA, it was a surprising statement. I however do want to say that we in the Western Cape fully support the restructured model of policing in South Africa. In fact, there is no turning back. That model of strengthening the first line of defence, which is the police station, is not about to change. If anything is going to be strengthened to gain momentum and move forward, it is the right thing to do to ensure that the first line of defence, the best trained soldiers in the police, are in the trenches where crime is committed in our towns and cities.

Today, as we speak, we can say that the restructured model we had has in fact changed. It has turned the tide against crime. Earlier, I referred to the fact that in the last four years crime has come down, specifically contact crime, by 30%. But we must say that as much as it has come down by 30% accumulatively, any crime committed is still a crime too many. We still have to shoulder that in the fight against crime.

With this restructured model of strengthening the police’s front line of defence, we have seen changes in our police stations. The tide at the station that we referred to earlier as a “murder capital” like Khayelitsha has changed; the tide at the station in Gugulethu where there was a problem before, has changed; the tide at the station in Kleinvlei where there was a problem has changed as a result of the model that has been implemented.

So, the message for the DA should be that they are probably living in another country; they are probably living in a fool’s paradise where they do not see the concrete things and changes that are taking place in our communities.

In moving forward in the Western Cape that was normally known as a gang and drug capital, we continue to mount a fight against that. Today, as we speak, I heard yesterday the DA speaking and asking: Where is this gang that has been arrested? I can tell you that, as we speak here, for the last four or three years since we started, we have seen 1 800 high-flyers being arrested. We saw them arrested because of the core implementation of the proper legislation.

As we speak here today, we can say that we have seen the state and the police mounting the operation and confiscating 460 outlets that have been used by drug-traffickers.

Coming to the last issue, in the past two weeks we have seen lots of conflicts and problems in the province and also nationally, particularly the issue of brothers fighting brothers and sisters. It is an action that must be condemned as we speak. In the Western Cape alone we have seen 19 000 people being displaced and they had to be accommodated at 75 places of safety. But as we speak here today we have implemented a three-pronged strategy plan, the first leg being to ensure that people are secured, particularly with regard the protection of life and property. That leg has in fact been implemented effectively and there has been stability as we speak.

The second leg of this programme is the relief programme. That leg has been implemented to ensure that there is accommodation, food and stability. We also have six mega-sites. We must just bring to the attention of this House and of the DA again that we must speak the truth and tell no lies. On the issue about the mega-camp that has been created in the Western Cape, we have warned against that -that you shouldn’t create a mega-site because a mega-site that takes people 80 kilometres from where they are, is also a form of displacing people. It’s a double trauma to people because they need to go and work there. Today, as we speak, the DA says we don’t want to see anybody from outside of South Africa living side by side with the people of this country - they must create their own location there and not worry about who wants to see them being deported back to their country.

I think the action and statement stands condemned as we speak. We are saying: These are our brothers, we share the same sky; we share the same stars; they live in another part of the continent. If anything, we must make their stay here pleasant.

Again, in the integration leg, we can report that four communities have really been reintegrated back where they come from – Masiphumelele, Paarl, Westlake and Philippi East. This work is continuing and we want to thank thousands and thousands of community members, NGOs, and police personnel who have risen to the challenges and put their shoulders to the wheel to ensure that in this time of crisis we stand together to protect and make sure that people are given food and are accommodated in places of safety. To them we say we thank them very much and that they must continue. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mr Z C NTULI: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Minister of Safety and Security, hon members as well as the departmental officials. Mhlonishwa u-Worth, emibuzweni yakho okade uyibuza uthi kuzosolwa bani kukhona okhohliwe ukuwubuza wokuthi … [Hon Worth, when you were asking questions as to who is to blame, there is one question that you forgot to ask, and that question is …]

Why is xenophobia only against black people, and not against the white people? You forgot about that one. I hope it was deliberate. I am saying that …

… Ngicabanga ukuthi awazi kahle hle ukuthi ubandlululo lwenzani kithina. Yingakho nje sithi isicathulo sishisa osigqokile. Siyazi thina ukuthi ubandlululo lwalwenza ukuthi sizibukele phansi thina. Lwalwenzelwe ukuthi singathandani nabanye abantu. Lwalwenzelwe futhi ukuthi sibukelane phansi sazi ukuthi umlungu kuphela umuntu omkhulu. Yikho-ke namhlanjena kunje, Worth, bese uqhamuka lapha usuzibuzisa kodwa ube ulazi iqiniso ukuthi kungani silapha namhlanje.

Baba uMzizi, ukuba abaseshi abasebenzi ngabe amajele awagcwele kanje. Ukugcwala kwamajele size seswele ukuthi senzenjani kukhombisa ukuthi amaphoyisa ayasebenza nanokuthi abaseshi basebenza ngempela. Ukulwisana nobugebengu nokudala inhlalakahle emphakathini wakithi akuwona umsebenzi wamaphoyisa kuphela, kodwa umsebenzi wethu sonke siwumphakathi sibambisene namaphoyisa. Ubugebengu nokugcwelezana kwenzeka phakathi emakhaya ethu futhi phakathi kwabantu abazanayo.

UMengameli kaKhongolose, ubaba u-JG Zuma, uMsholozi, kwathi mhla ziyi-12 Januwari 2008 wanxusa umphakathi waseNingizimu Afrika ukuba ubhukule usungule izakhiwo ezibizwa ngama-street committees. Kungenzeka-ke uma umgwaqo ungekho ngakini sithi isigungu sesigodi salapho uhlala ngakhona. Phela lokhu uma sike sakulandela kuzosisiza ukuthi zibuye emasisweni.

Ngikusho lokhu ngoba kwenza ukuthi umphakathi wazane, uvikelane, ukwazi ukuvuselela izimilo futhi kwenza wonke umuntu nje azizwe ukuthi kukhona iqhaza alibambayo. Isibonelo, mhlawumbe ungenza izindlu mhlawumbe zibe ama- 20 bese kuthi wonke umuntu okulezi zindlu ahlangane benze amakomiti kuthi umuntu nomuntu abe nomsebenzi wakhe awenzayo njengokubheka ezemfundo, ezemidlalo, ezempilo, ezokuphepha, njl. Lokhu kwenza ukuthi umphakathi wazane ukuthi mhlawumbe ubaba walaphaya ulale ngalesi sikhathi ngaleliya langa noma ngaleliya sonto.

Siwuhulumeni kaKhongolose sithi akwakhiwe ama-community policing forums, ama-CPF, ngaphansi kweziteshi zamaphoyisa naphakathi komphakathi. Izizathu zalokhu ukuthi kwakheke ubudlelwano phakathi kwamaphoyisa nomphakathi. Inhloso enkulu yalokhu ngokukaKhongolose kwakuwukuthi ama-CPF azoqapha amaphoyisa lokhu esikubiza nge-monitoring and oversight. Kwathi ngesikhathi sekwakheka umthetho, umthetho wabe usunika amandla athe xaxa lokho okwenza ukuthi abantu bazithole bengasemukelekile kahle noma kungasebenzeki kahle.

Okusho ukuthi, Ngqongqoshe, ngethemba ukuthi sizowulungisa lo mthetho wokuthi ama-CPF kungabi ukuthi akhiwa amaphoyisa, kodwa kube ukuthi nawo ama-CPF anamandla athe xaxa nawo kunokuthi ancike njalo emaphoyiseni ukuthi njalo uma ezosebenza athole uxhaso emaphoyiseni. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[I just think that you don’t really understand what apartheid did to us. And the old adage that says it is the person who is wearing the shoe who really feels the pinch is true. We know that apartheid was meant to make us look down upon ourselves. And it was also meant to make us not like other people. It was also made to help us look down upon other people and understand that it is only the white person who is great. That is why things are like this, hon Worth. And you then come here today with your sarcastic questions whilst you know the whole truth as to why we are where we are today.

Hon Mzizi, if the crime investigating department was not doing its work, the prisons would not be as overcrowded as they are. The overcrowding in prisons and the fact that we do not even know what to do about it is a clear sign that the police are doing their work and that the investigating officers are really up to scratch with their work. Fighting crime and bringing safety to our communities are not the responsibility of the police alone, but rather a responsibility that we should share with the police. Robbery and assault happen within our homes and amongst people who know one another.

The ANC President, Mr J G Zuma, Msholozi, in his January 12 statement in 2008, pleaded with the South African public to stand up and form structures known as the street committees. If there are no streets in your area, we can call those committees the forums for villages in your area. If we could follow this route it would mean that we are on the right track to going back to our roots.

I am saying this because it will help the communities understand each other, protect one another, and be able to regenerate morals and everyone would feel that she or he is making a difference. An example here would be when you take 20 households and everyone living in these houses would come together and form a committee where everyone would have a role to play like being responsible for education, sports, health, safety, etc. This causes the community to know each other and understand each other, for example, that Mr so-and-so went to bed at a certain time on a certain day or in a certain week.

As the ANC government we are saying people should form community police forums at police stations and amongst communities. These would help to build relationships between the police and the communities. The main objective according to the ANC for the establishment of the CPFs was to keep an eye on the police and perform monitoring and oversight functions on them. And when the legislation was passed, it gave more powers to the police which resulted in the public not feeling welcome anymore and that resulted in a situation not conducive for the police and the people to work together.

Hon Minister, I just hope that we will correct this legislation which stipulates that the CPFs should be formed by police so that the CPFs themselves have more powers and are self-reliant rather than always depending on the police, and, when they need to work, first having to get support from the police.]

At the 52nd ANC conference in Polokwane, we took a resolution that the community safety forums, CSFs, must be co-ordinated by provincial safety and security departments. Furthermore, all the necessary steps must be taken to speed up the process of the establishment, management and funding of the CSFs.

It must be clear that we are not doing away with the CPF but we are strengthening the co-ordination of the criminal justice system and the relationship with the community.

As the ANC and government, we fully believe that prevention is better than cure. That is why we are encouraging the department to increase the funding for crime prevention, which is the major source of visible policing. The R17,1 billion for 2008-09 shows the desire and commitment by our government, but this visible policing must be accompanied by crime intelligence and information gathering and community outreach programmes by the police.

Kuyakhuthaza ukubona amaphoyisa aseNgilandi eqaphe umphakathi ngesikhathi wona ubuka ibhola, lapho uthola ukuthi wona amaphoyisa awalibuki ibhola kodwa uwathola ebheke umphakathi. Siyazi ukuthi ngonyaka ka-2003, iKhabhinethu kahulumeni yathatha isinqumo sokuthi imingcele yaleli zwe iqashwe amaphoyisa. Lokhu sekwengeze omunye umthwalo emahlombe amaphoyisa. Bekungakuhle ukuthi lo msebenzi amaphoyisa awenze ngokubambisana nombutho wezokuvikela, ungenziwa amaphoyisa wodwa kodwa bawenze ngokuhlanganyela. Ngethemba siyakwazi lokhu okubizwa nge-patrolling and policing.

Kungakuhle futhi ukuthi amasotsha azithole izifundo lezi ezenziwa amaphoyisa ngokunjalo namaphoyisa athole amakhono afundiswa amasotsha. Lokhu kungasiza kakhulu ekutheni sikwazi ukuvikela umphakathi futhi size sikwazi nokuqhubeka ngesikhathi semidlalo le ka-2010, ukuze sikwazi ukugada izihlwele lezi eziyobe zikhona. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[It was encouraging to see the English police keeping an eye on the spectators while the spectators were watching soccer. Interestingly, the police themselves were not watching the game but they were keeping an eye on the spectators. We know that in 2003 Cabinet resolved that the borders of this country should be manned by police. This has put more weight on the shoulders of the police. It would be best if this task could be done by both the police and the army together, and not be the sole responsibility of the police but be for both structures. I hope that we are aware of what is called patrolling and policing.

It would also be advantageous for soldiers to receive the training received by police and for the police to get skills training that the soldiers get. This would help us protect the communities and also continue doing that during the 2010 Fifa World Cup, so as to be able to guard the multitudes that are here.]

In conclusion, we would like to encourage the department to reduce the vacancy rate in all its entities. We know that, particularly with regard to the ICD. I am happy that the Minister has touched on that. When we receive the report about the ICD I hope we are going to address that. If we employ the executive director, we would be able to fill the other vacancies which were not filled. As the ANC we do support this budget. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Chairperson, the first thing I want to do is to record appreciation to all the provinces under the direction of the various MECs for public safety, regarding the mobilisation of people. I do believe that at some point we need to put together a report that we must submit to Parliament so that it serves before the NA as well as the NCOP, as an indication of the amount of work that was done. This is work we ought to be involved in as South Africans, namely the mobilisation of our people, in order for them to participate in various levels of crime prevention in particular.

Crime prevention is the one element of policing that is going to assist us in dealing with crime in South Africa. But if you look at provinces, as I have indicated, there is a lot of work that has been done. In the Western Cape, where we are at this time, they have a campaign called Bambanani. The campaign has assisted us to reduce the levels of crime drastically in this province and in Gauteng of course. The representative from Gauteng has referred to some of these kinds of projects. These are the various projects which are designed to contribute towards the social mobilisation of people to participate as role-players in the fight against crime. KwaZulu-Natal is the same. In the Eastern Cape, there is an annual programme that mobilises people around sport, particularly the youth, so that they can also become part and parcel of this arsenal that we have to combat crime. I don’t want to itemise all the provinces that are involved in this, but many of them are.

Look at rural areas, for instance. There is not only interaction with people in urban areas, but also interaction with people in the rural countryside, speaking together with traditional leaders in those areas. There are many religious leaders who have come forward to be part and parcel of the programmes that we have to deal with crime. All of these are being co-ordinated by MECs in the various provinces. But as I say, this is work that we would like to submit to you for your information because there are ways in which we as Members of Parliament, but particularly the NCOP that deals directly with provinces, can interlink with provinces so that our work dovetails with what we do as public representatives and what is done on the ground by all those who participate in crime prevention and combating.

There is a serious problem that MEC Ndou from Limpopo referred to - the issue of resources. This is because there are still examples of a skewed relationship between resources that are available to the so-called white communities and black communities. Part of the problem is not simply that there is no desire to address this particular question. You will remember how the ruling party in this country as far back as 1992 looked at these matters - how we needed to reallocate resources so that we did not continue to have the strange pattern of resources that were made available in bigger volumes in white areas and in smaller volumes in black areas.

One of the biggest difficulties we have is the continuous pattern of the settlement of our people which, to some extent, has actually become informal settling. For instance, when we have specific areas where settlement has been permanent, we locate a police station to attend to the requirements of the people in that community. But suddenly there will be a mushrooming of informal settlements. That mushrooming, because it is irregular and is not properly planned, then puts pressure on our ability to provide services to people who live in such an area.

A case in point is what is happening in areas like Honeydew, Fourways and so on. Representatives who come from those areas will tell you that the biggest population in those areas is actually in the informal settlements rather than areas that were permanently designed for the settlement of people. Therefore, it becomes very, very difficult to allocate resources that we want to allocate under those circumstances.

It is a matter that we are discussing together with other departments, including the Department of Housing. That is why we took a decision that we need to deal with the matter of informal settlements in South Africa. This is because informal settlements do not only bring to bear the kind of pressure I have referred to, but also create conditions for the manifestation of crime in areas where some of the people live in informal settlements, given the nature and character of the informal settlements. Now it is a matter that we really need to deal with.

There are some people who have made very, very good inputs. All of you have raised things that we need to take up when we go forward. However, there are other inputs I quickly want to give responses to. For instance, the very first input which was made by Kgoshi Mokoena raises very, very important matters - the matter of what happens within police stations. At the level of a Minister, there are so many things I will not know about police stations. There are so many things that even the national management will not know about some of these police stations. We have what we refer to as a performance chart. It gives us figures about what happens inside police stations, but it does not tell us anything about matters of relationships. Our police stations, where relationships among members of the service in police stations and relationships between members at police stations and the communities they serve take place, leave so much to be desired. I am happy that when these things are raised, some of the top management of our police service are here. I have three deputy national commissioners who are listening. Some of them are dealing with matters of human resources so that we can deal with these matters. Therefore, what I want to assure you, hon Kgoshi Mokoena, is that when your meeting with the national secretariat takes place, we will indeed put someone who comes directly from the Ministry in that meeting. Of course we will also create conditions for the meeting you were talking about so that we can share ideas relevant to the Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD.

You have also raised some of the challenges we have. One of them is the demarcation of police stations. Now, I want to raise this thing here and again in the presence of these police officers. There is nothing which is called a Limpopo police service, a Northern Cape police service or a Western Cape police service. What we have is the SA Police Service. What this means is that there is no member of this service who will say that they are deployed in Cape Town central and therefore they cannot do work in Khayelitsha. They can’t say that because they are here in Cape Town they cannot deal with matters in Bloubergstrand. There is no police officer who will say that.

It is a fallacy to say that you cannot deal with matters in Matatiele as a police official because parts of Matatiele belong to KwaZulu-Natal. That’s absolute nonsense. I said this over and over again. Therefore, if anyone says to you when you pay them a visit that unfortunately they cannot accommodate something that you want to do on this kind of basis, just pull out a map of South Africa and give them some geography lessons.

Again the issue of work that we need to do as the police, particularly relating to infrastructure development, is the issue on problems we have had with Public Works. However there is an understanding with Public Works that in circumstances where they are unable to respond immediately to our needs, we must then continue to do work. The deputy national commissioner who is responsible for infrastructure development is here. I don’t understand why we would not do work simply because we are awaiting some issue or other relating to Public Works. We would go and expend money and go to the National Treasury and say to them that this was unforeseen expenditure and explain the unforeseen expenditure. We do this under certain circumstances and we have done this on several occasions with respect to other matters. Why not do it with respect to this very important aspect of our work, which is infrastructure development? So, I don’t understand, personally, some of these problems. These are the problems we raise as bogeymen. When I was growing up, we would be told that one does not cross a certain path because somewhere there would be big ogres who would eat one up. Let us not present bogeymen like that at this time and place.

Let me just talk a little to the issue of what the Deputy Minister had said. I don’t know why it was taken out of context. We say it all the time; I say it all the time. It is connected to section 49 of the Criminal Procedure Act. The Act says that if in the opinion of the relevant police official their life or the lives of innocent people are in danger, protection for such people must include the use of maximum force. It is so clear. This is what happens.

Let me just indicate what causes confusion at times, like now in recent times. It relates also to the deployment of the military that many talk about in glowing terms. A soldier came across some people. One person pulled out a firearm and the soldier shot him dead. You can’t threaten a soldier. A soldier will kill you. When you threaten a police officer, because they are trained, there are certain things they do at times before they kill you. But pointing a firearm at a police officer and expecting that the police officer will negotiate with you is out of the question. When that police officer begins to negotiate with the person who is pointing a firearm at them, they will be dead. They will be dead! The law says that when you reasonably believe that your life is in danger, you are allowed to use maximum force. That maximum force includes the use of the pistols that police officers have been given. That is what the Deputy Minister was saying.

You have really made Makhubela’s day, but since you have put this in the public domain, I do want to say that he retired a few years ago. I decided to put him on contract to work in the department because he is among the very experienced police officers who were also working in crime prevention and we needed that experience. So, what I often do is that when I go and visit the people and they raise issues at izimbizo and things like that, I send him back as soon as possible to sit down with the people and have a better understanding of what they were talking about. As a consequence, we have resolved many of the problems of our people.

Now, I just want to talk to one small thing before I finish – this issue that the hon Van Heerden raised. He is correct on this issue of bail. I mean section 35 deals with arrests, detentions and court appearances. The police do have that authority to give people bail. This is part and parcel of the injunctions we give to people with regard to the revamped criminal justice system.

Of course, hon Douglas, I still say let us organise with our people. Let us work together with the people. The police become your last line of defence, only in serious circumstances. If you are on a train, you will see who causes problems there. You must give the police that information because invariably we know all the people who cause problems as communities. When we work together with the police, that information comes to the police and we deal with those criminals. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Hon members, I just want to recognise our guests in the gallery, the officials from the department, the MECs and special delegates from provinces. Lastly, I want to thank the hon Minister for opening and responding on the issues that were raised by members. I believe, hon Minister, that, of course, members will go out and tell the public that they have to work together with the police. That concludes the debate. Thank you very much.

Debate concluded. APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 25 – Environmental Affairs and Tourism:

The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS AND TOURISM: Chairperson, the temptation when broaching a subject like the environment is to make the mistake of thinking that our actions are insignificant and that our environment looks after itself. But this is a short-sighted approach. It is convenient and it is comfortable; but it really is wrong.

Today we celebrate World Environment Day, where we celebrate and raise awareness of our environment. The World Environment Day slogan for this year, 2008, is: “Kick the Habit - Towards a Low-Carbon Economy!”

Climate change and its impacts have become the biggest global challenges that we are facing. We understand that it would not be economically, environmentally or politically sustainable for our country to continue to grow without a carbon constraint. And I’m quite sure that hon members will raise this issue during the debate.

Although our country has contributed and continues to contribute a relatively small amount to the global green-house gas emissions that are the cause of climate change, we are far from blameless. Emissions from our coal-based electricity production are substantial.

In my speech during the National Assembly Budget Vote two weeks ago, I announced the details of the Cabinet-mandated Long-Term Mitigation Scenario, LTMS, study. The LTMS will set the pathway for our long-term climate policy, and will eventually inform a legislative, regulatory and fiscal package that will give effect to our policy at a mandatory level. Cabinet has noted these findings and has mandated the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, Deat, to bring implementation plans back to Cabinet during the third quarter of this year, as a first step towards fast-tracking the process of translating our strategic options into policy directions.

The Department of Trade and Industry approved the gazetting of the Tourism BEE Charter as a sector code - I know that members of the portfolio committee raised this issue – which will make the charter legally binding on all organs of state, as well as those entities who want to do business with organs of state. The charter will pave the way for black economic empowerment, BEE, in the tourism industry. The date of gazetting will be announced in due course, and then the public will have 60 days to comment on it before it is finally gazetted.

This code will clear the current uncertainty around BEE targets in tourism, paving the way for real and measurable transformation in this sector. The code follows a year-long process of alignment between the Tourism BEE Charter and government’s Codes of Good Practice.

The fundamental difference between the sector code and government’s proposed minimum codes is that in the first five years of reporting more focus is placed on the human factor elements like skills development, strategic representation, employment equity and enterprise development. In recognising that this industry is people-driven, it was critical to the industry to adopt this approach.

The gazetting will place the Tourism Empowerment Council of our country, Tecsa, in a position to drive transformation in tourism from a very solid foundation. We will now be able to send out clear messages about BEE in tourism, with specific targets for businesses of any size, timeframes, as well as reporting mechanisms. We want to make sure that this industry is co- owned by all South Africans.

Turning to our magnificent parks, especially our national parks, allow me to focus on some of our achievements over the past few years. We have committed significant financial resources towards the expansion of formal protected areas, bringing the number of national parks to 22, and the total formal conservation estate to 4 million hectares. Since 2004 we have declared four new Marine Protected Areas, thus increasing the total coastline under some form of protection to 20%; making us one of the world’s leaders in this regard.

Through environmental education programmes, SA National Parks continues to build environmentally responsible stewardship. During the past year alone, over 110 000 learners received environmental interpretation Education experiences at our national parks.

Although we have tremendous successes in protecting and expanding our conservation areas, over the past two years there has been a dramatic increase in the illegal trade of rhino horn, and also in the hunting of white rhinos. As hon members know, both black and white rhino are listed as threatened or protected species, and permits are required to perform a restricted activity. The black rhino is listed on Appendix One of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species and the white rhino on Appendix Two. This means that the trade in rhino and its products is regulated internationally to ensure sustainable utilisation of the species.

This indiscriminate and illegal trade in rhino is directly linked to organised crime. The fact that approximately 27 white rhinos were poached in Kruger National Park during the last two years, as well as a definite increase in incidences in other parts of the country, is directly linked to organised crime. SANParks has therefore stepped up the protection of high- value herbivores such as rhino, buffalo and elephant in our parks.

During the course of investigating rhino horn deals, it has been established that prospective hunters applied for permits to hunt rhino in various provinces. Permits for these hunts were subsequently issued by the provincial authorities. On closer investigation, it was determined that some of these hunts never took place and the relevant authorities were never informed. This allowed the permit holder to legally export illegally obtained individual horns as hunting trophies. These occurred as a result of all rhino hunts not being supervised by the relevant permit issuing authorities. In some provinces rhino hunts are still on exemption permits meaning that the landowner does not require an individual permit for the hunting of the rhino, and therefore does not need to inform the provincial authority of such a hunt.

I would like to inform members of this House that all environment MECs have approved the national department’s proposal for a national moratorium on the trade in individual rhino horn, to give provincial and SANParks enforcement officers a chance to ensure that approaches and protocols for dealing with the trade in rhino horn are consistent, and that they comply with biodiversity conservation requirements. This will assist to curb the increase in the illegal trade in rhino horn and it will hopefully discourage the poaching of rhino in our country.

There can be no question that without enforcement of compliance, environmental legislation is worth no more than the paper on which it is written. In this regard, our Deputy Minister will introduce the National Environmental Laws Amendment Bill in this House within the next two weeks. This Bill proposes brief yet critical amendments that will ensure more effective enforcement of national environmental legislation.

I would also like to address issues of growth in the marine sector, and I’m quite sure that hon members will raise these issues. I will respond in my reply to issues that hon members raised. We have approved the final policies for broad-based whale watching as well as white shark cage diving which will be gazetted on 13 June 2008. The gazetting will also serve as a call for applications for the allocation of permits during this year. People who know this industry know that these are fast-growing industries that have the potential to generate considerable socioeconomic benefits for coastal communities and the operators, while also providing educational benefits for the participants.

There are currently nine authorised whale watching operators and 12 authorised shark cage diving operators that are each restricted to operating one vessel. We intend to increase this in the new rights allocation process. Permits will now be allocated from Port Nolloth – I see the MEC from the Northern Cape is not here, he’s been lobbying us quite consistently and persistently non-stop on this issue – down to Sodwana Bay in the whale watching sector, while the attraction of white sharks for the purpose of cage diving and surface viewing shall be limited to Seal and Dyer Island, Quoin Rock, Seal Island in Mossel Bay and Algoa Bay in the Port Elizabeth area.

The overall goal of these policies is to provide a proper regulatory framework to grow these industries and to advance transformation and black economic empowerment, and we will look closely, obviously, at those factors in the allocation process.

Members are well aware that poaching and environmental changes have led to severe declines in the natural abalone population. This has led to the closure of the wild abalone commercial fishery. We have identified that abalone ranching can play an important role in enhancing depleted abalone stocks. Furthermore, jobs could be created within the communities adjacent to areas identified to be suitable for ranching.

Over the past couple of years, abalone farming or cultivated abalone has developed rapidly and production levels are now in the order of about 1 000 tons. We are now exporting far more cultivated abalone than was the case in the past few years when the harvesting of wild abalone was still permitted.

With the increase in the availability of abalone spat, various ranching experiments have been initiated, mainly near Port Nolloth along the west coast and on a smaller scale at Cape Recife along the east coast.

These experiments have yielded very useful information to the extent that it will be possible to carry out ranching in some of these areas. Members from other provinces may request members from the coastal provinces to explain to them what ranching is. I can see that some of the Mpumalanga MPs don’t know what ranching is.

Areas for abalone ranching have been identified, from Port Nolloth in the Northern Cape to Hamburg in the Eastern Cape. We have therefore developed guidelines on abalone ranching and stock enhancement. These guidelines will be gazetted for public comment on 13 June 2008.

In conclusion, I wish to thank all of our provincial colleagues for the work that has been done in every part of our country, in both the environment and tourism sectors. To the chairperson of the select committee, Rev Moatshe, and the other members of our select committee, you have the appreciation and support of our department.

We understand the fact that we are only one of the departments that the committee has oversight of and we always appreciate your attention to our department and the time that you allocate to us.

To our statutory bodies, our management team, the department and our Deputy Minister, Rejoice Mabudafhasi, it remains an honour to work with such talented, dedicated and enthusiastic colleagues.

Ultimately, what we are debating today, that is the budget policy of our department, could not be more fundamental to the dreams, aspirations and hopes of our people. A growing environment and tourism sector is, quite simply, the basic requirement for a growing South Africa. I have not used up all my time, and that is to ensure that I have time to deal with issues that members raise. Thank you. [Applause.]

Rev P MOATSHE: Modulasetulo Tona, lefapha, badirikanna, balekgotla- khuduthamaga fa ba le teng, baemedi ba ba kgethegileng, motho o tswa mo mmung mme a tswang mo mmung o tshwanetse go dira botsalano le tlhago le tikologo. Re ka seke ra tshela kwa ntle kgotsa kwa motsheo ga tlhago le tikologo eo re leng karolo ya yone. Ke ka lobaka leo re tshwanetseng gore baagi ba Aforika Borwa ba lemosiwe ntlha eo, gore ba fetoge go nna ditsala tsa tikologo le tlhago eo re leng karolo ya yone. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, Minister, colleagues, committee members if present, and esteemed delegates, we are created from dust and we should therefore reaffirm our relationship with nature. We cannot live without acknowledging the existence of nature, of which we are part. It is for this reason that South African citizens should be made aware of this, so that they change and become friendly towards nature, because we are part of it.]

The Tourism Black Economic Empowerment Charter has been institutionalised and operates as the Tourism Empowerment Council of South Africa. The process of gazetting the charter as a Code of Good Practice to be legally binding on all organs of state is under way. Key to the sustainable growth of the tourism sector is the improvement and development of new products that meet the demands and expectations of tourists.

In this regard, the recommendations of the second phase of the Global Competitiveness Project have been approved. A process has been initiated to drive implementation through a bottom-up partnership with the Department of Provincial and Local Government, as well as with the private sector. A tour operator programme has been put in place to invest in infrastructure that will enable them to capitalise on the hosting of the 2010 World Cup.

In the branding of South Africa as a preferred tourist destination, it is essential to establish brand symmetry between the three spheres of government. By pursuing this marketing and branding initiative, the branch has built marketing and branding relationships with public entities such as the Airports Company of South Africa, SA Airways, the International Marketing Council, Transnet and Proudly South African. This marketing and branding drive is also supported by other marketing opportunities.

In as far as tourism transport is concerned, to enhance tourism growth and address the transport needs of the tourism sector, the branch, together with the Department of Transport, has established a steering committee. A number of multistakeholder consultations on tourism-related transport issues were held and these consultations generated a range of possible solutions. The department has identified target markets to be pursued through its agencies between 2008 and 2010.

Molaotheo wa naga, o abela baagi botlhe ba Aforika Borwa ditshwanelo tsa botshelo le go dira mo tikologong e e sireletsegileng e bile e fodile. Tikologo e e ntseng jalo e tla tswela madirelo molemo mme baagi ba nne le botshelo jo bo botoka. Ka maemo a a kwa godimo a lokala le le sireletsegileng la tikologo, lefapha le ikaeletse go tsholetsa tiriso ya Molaotheo go lepalepana le go laola go leswefadiwa ga tikologo, mowa le loapi, tshomarelo ya mowa o o phepa, diphetogophetogo tsa loapi, kitlano ya tikologo e e leng ka fa tlase ga tlhokomelo le go dirisa molao wa tikologo ka pateletso. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[The Constitution of the country gives all South Africans the rights to live and to work in a safe environment that is not harmful to their health. Such an environment will be beneficial to the industries and citizens to enhance a better life. In maintaining high standards to uphold safety conditions of the branch, the department is willing to use the Constitution in order to conserve the environment and control air pollution, atmosphere and gas control, climatic change and to ensure that environmental impact is under control and environmental laws are enforced.]

The branch sets the standards for a safe and healthy environment, and ensures that they are upheld through policy, legislation and enforcement actions. This branch addresses what are commonly referred to as “brown issues”, the environmental management of urbanisation and industrialisation. Its four main areas of focus are pollution and waste management, environmental impact management, air quality management, and climate change and regulatory services.

In order to strengthen the regulatory framework for pollution and waste management, a key activity has been the preparation of the National Environmental Management: Waste Bill. The Bill embodies the policy approach, sets out the respective roles of the different spheres of government and provides for the regulation of land contamination. The Bill was tabled in Parliament in June 2007 and is likely to be enacted before the end of the 2008-09 financial year. As the Minister has already indicated, it can be enacted within the next two weeks.

Aforika Borwa e akofile go nna naga ya metsesetoropo le madirelo. Go botlhokwa gore matsapa a a tsewang a godise moruo wa naga. Moruo o tle o tlise tlhomo ya ditiro le go busetsa morago maparego a tlala le lehuma.

Go tlhoga mo go akofileng ga tikologo go na le ditlamorago tse di tshwanetseng go tlhokomelwa le go tsamaisiwa sentle. Setlhopha sa Tsamaiso ya Kitlano ya Tikologo (Environmental Impact Assessment) EIA, se tshwanetse go tlhokomela gore tsotlhe di a diragala.

Mo ngwageng wa 2007 le 2008 go ne ga amogelwa dikopo di le 125 tsa tshekatsheko ya kitlano ya tikologo, EIA, (Environmental Impact Assessment), tse di ileng tsa sekwasekwa tsa bo tsa wetswa ke lokala. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[South Africa has developed into an urban and an industrialised country. It is imperative to ensure that all efforts taken should help to improve the economy of the country in order to create jobs and push back the frontiers of poverty.

The improvement of the environment has consequential effects that have to be maintained and managed. The environmental impact assessment, EIA, has to ensure that this is implemented.

In 2007 and 2008, about 125 requests were received for researching the environmental impact: environmental impact changes were received and were analysed and completed by the branch.]

Klimaatverandering is huidiglik een van die grootste bedreigings vir algehele volhoubare ontwikkeling en word oorweeg as een van die hoofprioriteite waaraan aandag geskenk moet word.

Suid-Afrika, tesame met ander lande, het hulleself verbind om die uitdagings van klimaatverandering aan te spreek. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Climate change is currently one of the biggest threats to total sustainable development and is being considered as one of the main priorities we should be dealing with.

South Africa, along with other countries, has undertaken to address the challenges of climate change.]

A research and scenario planning process and the climate change long-term mitigation scenario process was undertaken to ensure that South Africa has a sound evidence base on which to plan its climate change response. This research and scenario planning is currently being consulted on with key stakeholders and its consultations will be presented to Cabinet during 2008.

South Africa’s environmental management inspection unit, the Green Scorpions, has started the first of a series of compliance inspections at various cement manufacturing facilities across the country. The unit started its blitz, which signalled the start of the “Clean Cement” campaign, with an inspection at the Lafarge cement plant in the North West province on Monday. Over the coming week, PPC facilities in Limpopo, Gauteng, Eastern Cape and the Western Cape will also be inspected. The Green Scorpions would monitor compliance with all environmental legislations, authorisations and permits applicable to each site.

Shoppers have paid R247 million in tax on plastic bags over the past five years, but none of the recycling centres that the money is meant to fund have started operating. The SA Revenue Service collects the tax and pays R20 million of it annually to the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism. The money is meant to be spent on the recycling projects. The tax was first implemented in May 2003. A section 21 company, Buyisa-e-Bag was set up two years later to do the recycling. The chairperson of Buyisa-e- Bag, Hendrik Neethling, has confirmed that none of the projects have started the business yet. Therefore, we would like to hear from the Minister what that entails.

The Treasury does not allow taxes to be ring-fenced, or held separately for any purpose. Therefore, the tax has gone into government coffers, and the Treasury should decide on its distribution. The Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism should apply to the Treasury for the money, which means that the money was taken from them because it was not utilised, and therefore they have to apply for it.

Re tshegetsa tekanyetsokabo e, gore e ka nna le seabe se se mosola mo go fetoleng isagwe ya rona. Ke a leboga. [We support this Budget Vote. We hope it will play a role in changing our future. Thank you.]

Mnr A WATSON: Agb Voorsitter, agb Minister, agb lede, my kollegas in die Nasionale Vergadering het reeds breedvoerig gereageer ten opsigte van die DA se reaksie met betrekking tot klimaatstempering, mariene kusbestuur en toerisme. Daarom sal ek my vanmiddag hoofsaaklik toespits op enkele sake rakende omgewingsbewaring en beskerming. Dit sal ek in drie dele verdeel. Eerstens, gaan ek konsentreer op die sogenaamde Wildekus, “the Wild Coast”. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr A WATSON: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, my colleagues in the National Assembly have already responded at length with regard to the DA’s reaction with regard to climate tempering, marine coastal management and tourism. I will therefore mainly focus my attention this afternoon on a few matters concerning environmental conservation and protection. This I will divide into three sections. Firstly, I will concentrate on the so- called Wild Coast.]

The area along the Wild Coast is one of the most important biodiversity hot spots in the world. At the same time, this region, which falls predominantly into the OR Tambo District Municipality, is one of the most impoverished areas in South Africa with a considerable need for development and job opportunities. One of the proposed developments in this environment is mining at Xolobeni - an initiative which will create no more than a few hundred jobs and which will last approximately only two decades.

The Minister is on record saying that he prefers ecotourism as a developmental model for this area.

Sihlalo, andazi ukuba i-ecotourism yintoni na ngesiXhosa, kodwa siyavumelana noMphathiswa. [Chairperson, I don’t know what ecotourism is in isiXhosa, but we agree with the Minister.]

Ons stem saam met die Minister. [We agree with the Minister.]

We agree with the Minister. Ecotourism along the Wild Coast has the potential to create sustainable jobs while, at the same time, it secures the ongoing protection of this unique biodiversity. It is, however, both disappointing and unacceptable that the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism’s, comments on environmental impact assessments, EIAs, and the environment management plan of the proposed Xolobeni mining were not submitted to the Department of Minerals and Energy on time. This was apparently an oversight by the department. Nevertheless, this is unacceptable, considering that this department is charged with protecting the environment.

Furthermore, these comments were intended to include the views of the environment department in the Eastern Cape. We are reliably informed that the provincial department is of the opinion that the impacts of the intended mining could never be satisfactorily mitigated, yet the final findings of the composite departmental report to the Department of Minerals and Energy were substantially watered down. If this department is truly a defender of the Wild Coast and sustainable development, then it will need to back up its words with actions.

The conservation of our biodiversity, both fauna and flora, is advanced by our impressive portfolio of national parks. It is of concern though that poaching remains a problem in some of these parks, as was also referred to by the Minister earlier on. In a reply by this very same Minister to a DA parliamentary question, the Minister also said that in the last 4 years - he referred to the last 2 years - 44 white rhinos and 31 buffaloes were killed by poachers in the Kruger National Park. The vast majority of the white rhinos that were killed were in the proximity of the Mozambican border, between Ressano Garcia and Pafuri. It is also likely that the animal parts are being exported from Mozambique. I am therefore happy to hear that he has now introduced measures to try and curb this. But, you know, “skelms” [crooks] are “skelms” [crooks]. They get them out, nevertheless. In spite of the Southern African Development Community, SADC, protocol signed in Maputo in 1999 which aimed to harmonise conservation areas between our countries, including matters of law enforcement and research, the required commitments by the Mozambican authorities have yet to materialise.

With regard to other parks managed by the SA National Parks, SANParks, 15 of the 22 parks reported that absolutely no poaching had occurred over the past 4 years. If I thought this was remotely true, I would welcome the result. But unfortunately I do not believe this. It is more likely the case that the parks that claim that there has been no recent poaching do not have the ability or resources to monitor what is really going on.

I trust that, this year, the amalgamation of the Qwaqwa National Park and the Golden Gate Highlands National Park will also finally occur. Such an amalgamation is crucial for the increased protection of the grassland biome, which is the one type of biome that is not yet sufficiently protected under our national parks system. This amalgamation was proposed 9 years ago and, since then, 5 MECs responsible for conservation in the Free State have come and gone. It is time for the Free State to ensure that this province honours its commitments during the financial year.

The last one is protection of marine areas. I have just a short word on this. With regard to the marine environment, it is common cause that enforcement of compliance fails miserably. It is true that the coastline is vast and that there are insufficient marine and coastal management inspectors to guard every kilometre of the coast. However, government needs to get creative about solutions. Honorary rangers have always played a critical role in our terrestrial parks and a similar situation of honorary fishery officers exists in pockets along the coast. I would like to encourage the Minister to set up and resource more units of honorary rangers along the coastline, much like is happening in Port Elizabeth.

Daar is talle goeie burgers van ons land wat toegerus is met ondervinding as polisiereserviste wat graag sal wil help met hierdie taak wat vir u voorlê. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[There are many good citizens in our country who are equipped with experience as police reservists who will gladly assist you with this task that lies ahead. I thank you.]

Ms B N DLULANE: Sekela-Sihlalo, Mphathiswa, malungu abekekileyo, ndibulela ukufumana eli thuba lokuba ndime apha, ndize kuthetha ngolu hlahlo-lwabiwo- mali. [Deputy Chairperson, Minister, hon members, let me thank you for this opportunity granted to me to make a contribution to this Budget Vote.]

Today, we converge when, just a few weeks ago, our country experienced some of the most gruesome, violent and barbaric incidences, which were directed against African people of foreign descent in places such as Alexandra, Diepsloot, Du Noon, Nyanga and Imizamo Yethu.

The events that unfolded over the last few weeks cast a terrible shadow on the image of our country, as it is one of the first preferred places of choice for tourists from across the globe.

Allow me to take this opportunity to condemn, in the strongest possible terms, this thuggery and hooliganism, which is nothing but an inhumane front for criminality and blatant exploitation of the concerns and challenges of our people.

Le nto indikhumbuza ngelaa xesha kanye sasingena apha elulawulweni, apho kwakuye kubekho ukuhlaselana phakathi kwamaXhosa namaZulu, apho ayesithi akufika amapolisa abhaqe abeLungu abaziqabe ngeoli okanye ngembola emnyama apha ebusweni. Ngelo xesha ke sasizilungiselela ukuthatha iintambo apha eburhulumenteni.

Kwakhona, ezi zehlo zindikhumbuza nangokubulawa kwabantu koololiwe. Wawufumanisa ukuba xa kukho umntu oswelekileyo kuloliwe, kwakusithiwa sisidumbu somXhosa okanye somZulu, endingazi ke nokuba umntu xa eswelekileyo uthetha njani azichaze ubuhlanga.

Maze siyijonge ke le nto sithi kukubukulwa kwabantu ngokobuzwe okanye ixenophobia. Mna indenzela ixhala, ngoba yenzeka ngethuba apho siza kuphinda siye kunyulo. Ixhala lam ke ngoku lelokuba phaya eAlexandra, nabemi beloMzantsi Afrika baye bachaphazeleka kule nyhikityha. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[This reminds me of those times when we came into power, when the Xhosa and the Zulu groups would attack each other and, when the police came, they would find white people with oil or black ochre on their faces. During those years we were preparing to take over government.

These incidents also remind me of the killing of people in the trains. Once a dead person’s body was found in the train, people would assume that it was the corpse of a Xhosa or a Zulu person. I do not know how a dead person could assert his or her race.

We should take note of this xenophobic behaviour. It makes me feel worried, because it happens at a time when we are about to go for the next elections. My fear is that, there in Alexandra, South African citizens were also affected by this catastrophe.]

Indeed, at the turn of the 21st century, the relations of productions across the globe are significantly shifting. Traditional sectors such as manufacturing, mining and agriculture continue to decline. The new economy that is emerging is based on the competitive advantage of human capital, creativity, innovation and knowledge.

Mphathiswa, ngokubhekisele kwinto ebisandul’ ukuthethwa lilungu elisuka apha. Ndiphuma kweminye yemimandla enamanxweme, phaya eWild Coast eMzamba, naphaya eSajonisi. Nokuba bekusithiwa indlala ikhona, noko akhona amanyathelo athathiweyo ngulo rhulumente, encedisana nesithili esikhulu phaya ekuthiwa yi-O R Tambo - akukubanga kwaphela. Ndiyazi ukuba isebe lakho likhe lathumela isekela lakho phaya eSajonisi ukuba liye kuvula iiprojekthi ezithile khona.

Manditsho kodwa ukuba, noko sisakhala kuba iSajonisi yindawo entle kakhulu yokhenketho. Njengoko usitsho ukuba umqulu wezikhokelo kwinkqubo yokubonelelwa kwababevinjwe amathuba kwezoqoqosho ngaphambili, i-BEE charter ngesiNgesi, unika abantu izakhono nophuhliso, ndifumanisa ukuba kuninzi osele ukwenzile kwezokhenketho.

Kambe, ndikwafumanise nokuba abantu abatsha banikwa ithuba lokusebenza kwezothutho njengabakhokeli babakhenkethi okanye iitour guides kuphela, kanti amathuba oshishino aneemali ezinkulu afunyanwa ngaba bantu sithi ngoongxowa-nkulu. Oongxowa-nkulu basaxhamla bodwa; ngoko ke siyacela ukuba, phakathi kwezinto ongazenza, ukhe ufakele amanye amasolotya kulo mqulu wezikhokelo kwinkqubo yokubonelelwa kwababevinjwe amathuba kwezoqoqosho, ngenxa yemicimbi yoshishino esingethwe ngoongxowa-nkulu kuphela.

Mandenze umzekelo ngee-arhente zokundwendwela okanye ii-travel agents. Akukho namnye, nditsho nalapha kula malungu, onokukwazi ukuvula le arhente njengeshishini ngoba sele zinabantu abasele behluthi kakhulu. Sithi ke, yiqwalasele loo nto njengokuba uziqwalasele nezinye.

Ngekhe uthi uyimpula kalujaca njengoMaDlomo lo umi apha, udibane noSicelo kaShiceka nivule olu hlobo lweshishini. Lufuna idipozithi, bantu benkosi, emalunga nama-R500 000. Ngoko ke, siyile miphana siyiyo asinayo le mali. Sithi ke, yibani netarhu. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Minister, with regard to what has been said by the last speaker, I come from the coastal areas of Mzamba on the Wild Coast and Port St Johns. Even though poverty is prevailing, there are initiatives taken by this government in collaboration with the greater O R Tambo District Municipality. Things are not that bad. I am aware that your department once deployed your Deputy Minister to Port St Johns to initiate certain projects.

However, let me also say that we are still complaining because Port St Johns is quite a good tourist destination. As you said, the BEE charter provides skills and development to the previously disadvantaged people; I have noticed that you have already done a lot in the tourism sector.

I have also noticed that the youth are given opportunities to work in transport as tour guides only while opportunities for big businesses that bring a lot of money are still enjoyed by the capitalists. The capitalists are still the only ones that are benefiting; therefore we request that, among the things that you would perform, you add other sectors in this BEE charter, because businesses are still owned by the capitalists only.

Let me give the example of travel agents. There is not even a single one among us who would be able to start a travel agency business venture, because they have already been taken by well-established owners. We say you should consider this matter, as you normally do with other things.

You cannot, as a poor person like MaDlomo who is standing here, team up with Mr Sicelo Shiceka to start this business venture. This will need a deposit of approximately R500 000. Therefore, we as the poor do not have this money. We say to you therefore, have mercy on us.]

You must not only give to those small projects and fund them only. I’m talking about my area, Port St Johns, where we used to have big hotels but …

… zavalwa zemka xa kwakusimka abeLungu. Akukho mntu ukwazi ukuzivula, ngoba kaloku zifuna iimali ezinkulu. Khanincedise ke ngokuthi nifake isandla, ningasifaki kula mashishini makhulu kuphela. Ewe, siyabona likhona igalelo; yiyo loo nto ndisithi naxa ikhona indlala kwezaa ngingqi, kodwa … (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[… they were closed down when white people left. No one is able to reopen them, because they cost a lot of money. We humbly request you to assist us and not to support big companies only. Indeed, we can see the contribution, which is the reason why I say, even though poverty prevails in those areas …]

… there are so many things the department has done for us.

Thina ke singuKhongolozi sithi siyabona, kodwa asizi kuthula singatsho ukuba khaniphinde nincede phaya. [We as the ANC understand this, but we will not remain silent and not ask for more of your support.]

There is no doubt that creative communities and activities across the globe are increasingly becoming the largest generators of economic growth. Thus, the tourism sector has grown to be the world’s largest industry, generating millions of dollars to our economic advantage.

The World Tourism Council estimates that travel and tourism provide employment for more that 100 million people worldwide, which is one out of sixty across the globe.

The growth of the tourism sector is also demonstrated by the fact that it is responsible for over seven per cent of worldwide capital investment.

South Africa has identified this shift. The country’s diverse and dynamic beautiful landscapes are phenomenal. They attract millions of people from many parts of the globe. I also want tourists to be attracted by our coasts. As a result, the tourism sector in our country has become a fiercely competitive business, particularly for local and small business enterprises.

Ndiza kuphinda ndicele, mntwan’ enkosi ohloniphekileyo, ngokubhekisele kwiWaste Bill esigqiba kuyishukuxa, ukuba nenze le nto nisoloko niyithetha, nisithi - “Hayi, siza kufakela amasolotya.” (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[I will make a request again, hon Minister, regarding the waste Bill we have just debated, that at least you do what you always say when you talk – “No, we will add in these clauses.”]

However, if we look at local governments, there is a problem of infrastructure and of funds. Can’t we assist by proposing that there should be special grants for waste management for tourism in rural and urban areas also?

Siyazithetha ezi zinto, kodwa azizi kwenzeka. Siyacela ke, Mphathiswa, kuba unesakhono sokuzenza ezi zinto. [We debate these issues, but they will not happen. We appeal to you, hon Minister, because you have the capacity to do these things.]

As the ANC, we said the tourism sector has the potential of achieving the objective of the Reconstruction and Development Programme, and subsequently, growth in employment and reconstruction. We know that, in May 2005, we adopted the Tourism Charter.

Yiyo loo nto ke ndisithi, makhe ibe namanye amasolotya ongezelelwayo. [That is why I say there should be other clauses added in.]

One acknowledges that the current growth of the industry, though not satisfactory, is largely ascribed to potential changes in the past few years, and as a result of several policies and interventions that were initiated by the ANC government, the budget and strategic procedures of the Department of Environment and Tourism speak to many of these … [Interjections.] [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms A N T MCHUNU: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, the budget … [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): There is a point of order from the hon Windvoël. Hon Windvoël?

Mr V V Z WINDVOëL: Chairperson, on a point of order, is it parliamentary for a member to produce a new emblem for the NCOP without consultation? [Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON(Mr T S Setona): Hon member, can you continue?

Ms A N T MCHUNU: The budget given to the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism has to respond to the quest for quality and safety of the environment. Poor rural communities with high levels of unemployment struggle to survive where there are limited employment opportunities. Where this is the case, it is important that residents live in harmony with the environment, and use the advantages of their natural resources presented to them.

Grass such as incema, ikhwani and amagceba have to be planted in wetlands to maintain the sponge effect and provide the grass needed for crafts. I have samples there of a hat and plates made out of incema and we thank the hon Minister that he has made it a point that wetlands should be saved and that this grass was available. Unfortunately, in Mthunzini, where we were cutting the incema grass in May, big snakes were shown on TV and it was said that they are very dangerous. That scared some of the people away, particularly those who would be coming from the Eastern Cape to cut the grass. So, something should be done about those snakes.

Crafters have to be trained to make neat and attractive crafts. The example of this is the Hluhluwe crafters. Crafters have to be taught business management and how to do the costing and marketing of their products to ensure that they are not cheated out of income by unscrupulous retailers who obtain their crafts at the lowest possible prices and then sell them to tourists for profits.

We are pleased to see that the budget for the iSimangaliso Wetland Park Authority continues to grow. I do, however, believe that in view of the abject poverty and dire economic situation of the area, the relevant authorities should reconsider the mining of titanium with the South African Women in Mining Association, Sawima, involved. Perhaps the department should engage with affected communities and stakeholders and try to work out a suitable solution, where socially responsible development can occur through mining. The emphasis must, however, be on the socially responsible development of the communities.

Our country has been blessed with an abundance of natural resources and wildlife, many of which are unique to South Africa. Our game reserves, for example, are amongst the best in the world and attract thousands of tourists every year. It is, therefore, unfortunate that, at times, the benefit of these wonderful resources are not realised by the surrounding communities. Homesteads near the game reserves, for example, must be assisted with compact fencing and proper ablutions so that they can also benefit from the influx of tourist to their area. They must not be overlooked by the tourism industry.

Involving amakhosi and izinduna is essential as they have to take ownership of environmental care to ensure success in the tourism and hospitality industry in their areas, especially with 2010 fast approaching. The benefits of the booming tourism industry must be shared by more people and be used to develop our rural areas.

In conclusion, I sincerely believe that support through funding should be given to the National Sea Rescue Institute as they have a very important and difficult job to do along the coast. They do tremendous work under difficult circumstances but they still have to rely on donations and sponsorship to cover their running costs. I thank you.

Ms M MAKWAZA (Western Cape): Mhlalingaphambili, Mphathiswa, n aMalungu ale Ndlu, ndiyanibulisa xa ninonke ngale mva kwemini. [Chairperson, hon Minister and members of this House, good afternoon.]

I rise in support of this Budget Vote. However, I must say that there are several areas pertaining to environmental management in the Western Cape province which I would like to raise it here today that are relevant to the operation of the national Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism.

Let me start by mentioning pollution management. Under pollution management, I would like, specifically, to talk about air quality management. The monitoring of ambient air quality is an important component of the province’s need to meet its responsibility in terms of the new National Environmental Management: Air Quality Act.

The ambient air quality monitoring programme within the province was augmented through implementing two additional programmes. Firstly, the department will complete the one-year passive volatile organic compound monitoring programme by the second quarter of this year. This process involves locating 30 passive sample units across the province for a two- week period each month. This is a follow-up programme from the previous passive sampling programme that screened priority pollutants and is, once again, done with the co-operation and assistance of the municipal staff to ensure that municipalities’ air quality monitoring capacity is sufficient.

Secondly, two of the three movable ambient air quality monitoring stations have been commissioned during the year. The one located in Paarl in the Drakenstein Municipal area was officially launched during April 2008. The second monitoring station located at the school in Vredenburg in the Saldanha Bay municipal area will be launched on World Environment Day, which is today, 5 June. The third monitoring station is being installed in the Eden District municipal area.

These are sophisticated monitoring stations equipped to monitor the priority pollutants – nitrogen oxides, ozone and particular matter. Furthermore, each station is equipped with a full weather station monitoring wind speed and direction, humidity, rainfall, temperature and solar radiation. The results obtained from these programmes will, in future, place the province and the municipalities in a better position to understand the state of the air quality within the province. Some of these priority pollutants, such as ozone, are the greenhouse gases.

Armed with this informed scientific information, the province will be in a better position to do future air quality management planning, inform our climate change response strategy and to review the declaration of priority areas that may be needed. This information will also be passed on to the national Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism in order to better enable its national air quality management planning.

I also want to mention the amendment of the provincial noise control regulations. With respect to noise control, the department will submit amended provincial noise control regulations to the provincial cabinet by midyear, and publish the noise implementation guidelines for use by of the municipal officials to interpret and apply the noise regulations.

The guidelines will provide guidance to environmental head officials at municipal level who are responsible for resolving noise problems and who, generally, do not have a strong technical background in noise assessment. It will also provide guidance to planners during the application process to identify when a noise assessment is required and how to assess it. It will also provide training to the municipalities on the above-mentioned guideline.

With regard to waste management, I would like to talk about the Integrated Pollutant and Waste Information System, Ipwis. In this financial year, Ipwis will be deployed to be utilised by the department, municipality selected, industry and waste disposal facilities. Once deployed, the system will provide the department and the municipalities with a tool for the registration of facilities. In addition, it will also provide an electronic means to plan, schedule, complete and submit compliance reports.

The deployment of Ipwis also involves the training and capacity-building of the municipal staff and the key staff from industrial installations. The Ipwis users will be provided with maintenance and support to ensure trouble- free registration and reporting. The lessons learnt from this process will be documented and made available to the national Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism and the other eight provincial departments.

With regard to the provincial hazardous waste management plan, further implementation of the provincial hazardous waste management plan will be done by mainstreaming waste management planning in the consumer formulated chemical industry at the facility level. It will be done by facilitating workshops with the industry to assist them with the development of waste management plans and to monitor the development of these plans.

It is also envisaged that the integrated waste management plan manual will be revised to further assist the industry. In terms of integrated waste management planning, all 30 municipalities in the Western Cape have developed the first-generation integrated waste management plan. This is quite an achievement because the Western Cape is the first province in South Africa where all municipalities have Ipwis.

To ensure the successful implementation of the plans, the department is planning to develop a monitoring and evaluation system through a consultative approach, which will assist the municipalities and their department to improve waste management in the province. The emphasis of monitoring will be strongly placed on waste minimisation through stimulating the recycling economy and compliance with legislation, in particular around waste disposal facilities and reduction in illegal dumping incidents.

With regard to the green procurement policy, GPP, the draft green procurement policy will go for comment to the various provincial departments and external stakeholders. Suppliers will also be consulted to solicit comments from them on the draft policy. Comments from the various stakeholders will be integrated in the draft policy. A legal opinion on the GPP will also be sought to resolve any possible mandate issues. Thereafter, the policy will follow the process through the various committees and finally the provincial cabinet to promulgate the green procurement policy of the Provincial Government of the Western Cape.

Let me also talk about the Western Cape Health Care Waste Management Act and Regulations. The premier assented to the provincial Act on 18 December but the implementation will only be effected once the regulations are promulgated. Once the amendments, as required by the standing committee, are taken up in the Act as the regulations and certified by the legal services, it will be published for final comment. The comments will be incorporated in the regulations and will then be promulgated. Workshops will be conducted with the health care sector to expedite the implementation of the Act and regulations.

Let me also talk about the green grading system for the hospitality sector. The accommodation sector is one of the flagship projects of the Green Goal 2010 Fifa Soccer World Cup. The accommodation sector is the major sector of the environmental impact, including a significant contribution to carbon emission. The department will participate in the national standards development process to the standards for the environmental performance within the hospitality sector.

It will, together with its partner, Sustainable Energy Africa, train assessors and develop an administrative body to grade hospitality establishments on their environmental performance under a green grading programme named “Greenstay South Africa”. This will encompass water, energy, biodiversity, design and management, and criteria that provide a marketing strategy for the grading body.

Let me also comment on climate change. In 2005, the department commissioned the study to determine how susceptible the Western Cape province was to global warming. It is common knowledge that the Western Cape is one of the areas in the country that can expect the highest degree of climate change and will be most adversely affected. The predicted warming and drying will be most apparent in the western region of the province.

Now, knowing this with a relatively high degree of certainty, this places a range of moral and practical obligations on the decision-makers in the provincial government. The department stepped up to this challenge this year by developing the Western Cape climate change strategy and action plan to meet future social environmental and ecological climate change response challenges.

The Western Cape decision-makers and citizens are going to have to adapt or change behaviours, activities and attitudes to accommodate a warmer, drier and, most likely, more climatically erratic future. Sea levels are expected to rise and winter storms, for example, will threaten some of our existing coastal infrastructure, exactly as happened in KwaZulu-Natal late in 2007. The province also needs to implement mitigation measures to reduce the emissions of greenhouse gases that cause global warming. The key issue arising from the strategy … [Time expired.] Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr W M DOUGLAS: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, the purpose of Programme Four of Vote No 25 on Tourism is to create conditions for sustainable development for the benefit of all South Africans.

Having owned a tourism BEE SMME and having served on the Board of the Southern Africa Tourism Services Association, I feel that there is a severe lack of real transformation in the tourism industry. The current BEE charter does not go far and quickly enough.

I commend government’s training programmes such as the Tourism Mentorship Programme which develops BEE SMMEs’ business acumen but I feel that these SMMEs are still severely disadvantaged by pre- and post-apartheid agreements and by large white-owned tourism companies which band together to keep BEE SMMEs out of the industry. The attrition rate for BEE SMME start-up is well above 50%, and because of this more money should be made available to assist the SMMEs to market themselves internationally and locally.

The protection and care of our environment is not only the duty of the government, but of every political party and of every person in South Africa. The ACDP believes that human beings were created so as to live in harmony with nature and that if we destroy the earth and the natural resources, we do so at our peril. Government must support programmes that aim to protect our interests and restrict other nations from using our shores as their dumping ground.

The ACDP therefore supports the imposition of hefty antidumping duties. We support strict monitoring of factories that pose health and environmental risks and large industries which are known to be producing large volumes of health-threatening pollution with impunity. We must prevent the demise of our ecology and the damage to the health of South Africans.

The ACDP also comprehends the importance of a marine and coastal management system. We believe it can permanently enhance the capacity of coastal societies to sustain or improve their quality of life. We therefore recognise that currently the long-term capacity of ecosystems to provide people with adequate quality of life and sustainable wealth is being reduced.

Thus, the ACDP feels that proactive risk management and strict regulatory enforcement with regard to development of legislation, regulations, norms and standards to facilitate better management of the environment are of utmost importance.

The ACDP is in favour of World Environment Day and will support this Vote and we appreciate the work being done by the Minister.

Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: Chairperson, hon Minister and the hon members of this House, including our special delegates, I did send a message to members of the opposition that today we are debating the issue of the environment which must be kept clean of poisonous opposition politics. [Applause.]

I see Mr Watson tried to hold the reins. I must commend them on most of the things mentioned. We do agree that there must be transformation in the tourism sector and other sectors; to do that at some time it will also need some bit of affirmation action as a vehicle. I hope we will also agree in terms of that.

Let me say that, as we entered the country’s first democratic elections in 1994, among some of the central pillars of our long-term sustainable development plans was our commitment to manage the country’s rich and varied natural resources in a responsible and sustainable manner. It is in that light that South Africa is today seen as a key leader among developing countries on issues such as climate change, conservation and biodiversity. It was also not a mistake that we saw our country hosting the World Summit on Sustainable Development in 2002.

I must also hasten to say that the budget of the department clearly shows that its overarching vision is for a prosperous and equitable society living in harmony with its natural resources. The department manages the development and implementation of policies governing four interrelated components of South Africa’s socioeconomic development, that is tourism, the fishing industry, conservation and environmental management and sustainable development.

Sihlalo, ngifanele ngisho kutsi kukhona lokunye lesitawufisa kukuveta kulenkhulumomphikiswano lesikhuluma ngayo kuleLitiko Letesimondzawo Nekuvakasha. Kwekucala nje lesitawukhuluma ngako ngulesimo lesiyaye sititfole sesikuso kuletindzawo lekulahlwa kuto tibi lekutsiwa pheceleti, ngema-landfill sites. (Translation of Siswati paragraph follows.)

[Chairperson, I have to say that there is something else that we would like to highlight in this debate on the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism. The first thing that we will address is the situation which we find ourselves in with regard to the dumping places that are known as landfill sites.]

These sites are still a challenge in some of the municipalities in our local areas. You get some of the people, poverty-stricken as they are, ending up accessing those sites, looking for something which may be valuable to them but which is seen as dirt by the other person who is rich and who is not affected by that poverty.

Kuleto tindzawo ukhandza bantfwana sebadlala ngaletintfo lebetisetjentiswa bantfu labadzala ebusuku, badzimate batimunye nekutimunya. Sitawutsandza kutsi Litiko Letesimondzawo Nekuvakasha likufakele tibuko loko. Lokunye futsi, kuneluhlelo lesitawutsandza kutsi litiko lilubukisise; ikakhulu tindzawo lapho kulahlwa khona tibi letifana nemaplastiki.

Kulendzawo lapho tigcitjedzelwa khona kubese kuphuma umoya lomubi lobitwa ngekutsi, pheceleti-methyne, longasetjentiselwa kwenta emafutsa ekuhambisa timoto. Mhlayimbe, loku kungadala simo lesiphephile sekutsi kukhicitwe emafutsa lancono ekuhambisa timoto kulelive lakitsi.

Lokunye lesingakhuluma ngako ngulobudlabha lobentiwa ngulaba labagubha umnotfo waphansi, lesiwubita ngekutsi ngema-mineral resources. Siyati phela kutsi labogubhelakusabo bajaka inzuzo kuphela, abanandzaba nekuphepha kwetimphilo tebantfu. Emva kwekugubha lomnotfo labawufunako, utfola kutsi lemiphakatsi seyisala ingenwa tifo letifana nelufuba – sifo sekukhwehlela lesingapheli, naletinye nje tifo letibanga kugula lokumatima kakhulu.

Sitawucela kutsi lomtsetfo i-Polluter Pays Principle, ulandzelelwe. Labo bantfu akukafaneli kutsi baze babhadale ekugcineni, bangakhokha nangembili kwekutsi bacale kugubha letimbiwa. Kufanele futsi batsi nasebacedzile kumba bese babuyisela kahle lomhlaba wetfu lesawunikwa yiNkhosi, kuze ubuyele ube sesimeni lesingacishe sifanane nangesikhatsi bangakafiki bemba lomnotfo.

Kungcola kwemifula nemanti, ngulokunye lokutawudzinga kutsi labahloli betfu bakuhlolisise kahle. Ema-Green Scorpions, akangagcini nje kuphela ngekuhlola tindzawo letiselusentseni lwetilwandle. Kufanele angene nangekhatsi eveni abuke kutsi imifula yetfu, lefana naboTugela nabo-Olifant isesimeni lesinjani. Loku kuyaye kube nemitselela lemibi kakhulu njengobe lamanti anatfwa bantfu nje. Siyati kutsi labanye bomasipala abawahlantisisi kahle lamanti. Phela lamanti anatfwa natilwane nato tingawanatsa tiyafa.

Sivile kutsi tiyakhala tihlobo tabo babe Mzizi ngale ngaseMpendle, titsi tiyafa tinkhomo tato. Netihlobo taboMphemba tikhala ngekutsi ummbila wato awusakhuli kahle ubhaceke njengobe bewubhaceka kucala. Sitawutsandza kutsi loko kubukisiswe ngobe kubese kuba nemtselela wekutsi kube nesimo sekuba nekudla lokuphephile kulelive lakitsi. Sengigcina nje, Sihlalo, angisho eNdvuneni kutsi naloku lesikubita ngekutsi kugucuka kwesimo selitulu, i-climate change, kufanele kubukisiswe kuze live likhone kukumela. Siyabalwa natsi njengeNingizimu Afrika kutsi kulamave lasatfutfuka, shangatsi tsine silive lelikhicita kakhulu ema-Emissions, loku lokubitwala ngekutsi ngema-GHG Emissions. Bantfu bangabobe sebatsi ngikhuluma ngetimoto takahulumende ema-GG – mine ngikhuluma ngema-Green House Gases, babe Sukude.

Kudzingekile-ke kutsi lelive lakitsi laseNingizimu Afrika libukisise kutsi singakuntjintja njani lokukhicitwa kwemandla, lesingatsi yi- alternative energy production. Nakungentiwa kakhulu luphenyo, kubukwe nekutsi kungaguculwa njani loko. Kufanele sibuye sibambisane nalamanye ematiko kuze sibe naletinye tindlela tekuhlela kutsi lesomiso naletikhukhula letike tabakhona ngalokugucuka kwesimo selitulu, singakumela kanjani.

Ngiceliwe-ke kutsi ngisho kutsi kuloMtsetfosivivinyo Wekuphatfwa Kwelusentse Lwelwandle, i-Coastal Management Bill – nome iNdvuna beyishito kutsi site lwandle ngale ngaseMpumalanga – siye sabamba tinkhulumo tekutfola luvo lwesive. Sicabanga kutsi mhlayimbe ngekuhamba kwetikhatsi kungenteka lomnyele wetfu siwukhweshise uyewufika ngale kweMozambique. Ngaleyondlela, besitilungiselela.

Sinetindzawo letinhle kakhulu lapha eNingizimu Afrika letinemabito lamahle. Kodvwa-ke ngitawucela eNdvuneni kutsi ike ikhulumisane naMEC waseNyakatfo Kapa, Northern Cape, sekuke kuntjintjwe lelibito lalomhume lomudze kakhulu lobitwa ngekutsi yiBoesman’s Gat Cave, kube libito lelinenchubekela embili. Ngiyabonga. [Tandla.] (Translation of Siswati paragraphs follows.)

[In those places, children are playing with things that were used by adults at night, and even going to the extent of sucking them. We would like the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism to look into that. Furthermore, there is a programme that we would like the department to look into, more especially in those areas where rubbish like plastic is dumped.

An emission known as methane is emitted from the landfill sites, which can be used for motor fuel. Maybe that can create a safer situation for the production of motor fuel in our country.

The other thing that we can deliberate on is the negligence that is displayed by those who are digging for underground wealth, which we call mineral resources. We know that capitalists rush only to make a profit; they are not concerned with the safety of people’s lives.

After digging for the wealth that they want, you find that communities contract diseases such as tuberculosis and other chronic diseases.

We urge that the polluter pays principle be implemented. Those people should not only pay after, but they can also pay before they dig for these resources. After they have finished digging, they are supposed to cover the earth and leave it as it was given to us by our Lord, so that it can be in the condition in which it was before they came to dig up the wealth.

Contamination of rivers and water is also another issue that needs to be thoroughly inspected by our inspectors. The Green Scorpions should not only be confined to inspecting areas along the sea shores. They are also supposed to go inland to inspect the conditions of our rivers, like the Tugela and Olifant rivers. These normally have a negative impact as it is ordinary people who drink the water from these rivers. We know that some municipalities do not properly purify this water. This water is also drunk by animals and they also die after drinking it.

We have heard that Mr Mzizi’s relatives, who are in Mpendle, are concerned about the death of their livestock. And Mphemba’s relatives are also concerned with the growth and production of their maize. We would also like that to be carefully looked into because it will have an impact on our country’s food security.

As I conclude, Chairperson, let me say to the Minister that considerations regarding climate change should also be taken into account so that our country can withstand it. We, as South Africa, are also counted amongst the developing countries, as a country that produces a lot of emissions, known as greenhouse gas, GHG emissions. People should not say I am talking about government cars- GGs. I am talking of greenhouse gases, Mr Sukude.

It is imperative for our country to focus on alternative energy production. More research should be done on how to change to alternative energy production. We have to work with other departments to explore alternative programmes of withstanding drought and floods that are caused by climate change.

I have been urged to say, with regard to the Coastal Management Bill, though the Minister has stated that we in Mpumalanga do not have a sea, that we have held public hearings with the community to get its opinion. We think that, as time goes on, we will shift our border to the other side of Mozambique. By so doing we were preparing ourselves.

We have beautiful places with beautiful names here in South Africa. I would, however, request the Minister to interact with the Northern Cape MEC to consider renaming Boesmansgat Cave so that it has a progressive name. Thank you. [Applause.]]

The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS AND TOURISM: Chairperson, I will raise this with MEC Saaiman - that is, the issue of Boesmansgat Cave. If members can give me some proposals as to whose “gat” it should be, then I will certainly propose that to him as well. [Laughter.]

Can I respond to a number of issues raised by members? The Buyisa-e-Bag issue was raised by two members. Yes, it is up and running. By the end of this year, 16 centres will be established. We anticipate that the capacity to spend is now established and that in future we will draw down much more money. I can also convey to members that these centres will be in industrial areas and historically disadvantaged communities. In our view, this has enormous job creation potential.

With regard to the industry issues raised and the lack of transformation, that is exactly why we got the industry together. This industry was the first one ever to agree on a black economic empowerment, BEE, charter across the board – white and black businesses. I take note of Mr Douglas’s criticism in this regard, but I want him to go back and read that tourism charter again and see what we would like to achieve. Let me just convey to the members here that what we have done is not only words on paper. We are committing, as a department, financial resources also to ensure that we achieve what the industry agreed to.

Apart from the social responsibility programme, we have the Tourism Enterprise Partnership with the business sector. They are investing a lot of money. As a department, over the next three years, we will be investing R210 million in the Tourism Enterprise Programme. So, that is not only lip service, it is real concrete investment. I just asked for the figures, because of the hon members’ criticism in terms of that. Obviously we want to see more transformation because the tourism industry was, for a very long time, and still is, largely in white hands. And that is why we need the BEE charter to make sure that this industry is co-owned by all South Africans. Just over the last year or two, some partners indicated percentages of those industries which are already black-owned: 52% of Tourvest; 51% of Southern Sun; 53% of Peermont Global; 63% of the Don Group; and 23% of City Lodge. So, there is progress. While saying more must be done, we must also recognise the progress that we have achieved.

Then I would like to respond to the Wild Coast issue. There are two dimensions to this issue. First is the proposed N2 toll road. The hon members from this House and the other House have raised this issue on where the process is with regard to this proposed toll road and why the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism is dragging its feet on taking a decision, positive or negative, on this issue.

I would like to convey to members that the application for the proposed N2 toll road is not on the desk of the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism. The process is that it will first come to the department and then they will have to take a decision. Depending on that decision, and if there are any appeals, then it will come to the Minister, but that process is still in the hands of the National Roads Agency. No final application has been received from them. I think it is very important that members are aware of this because I know members continue to raise this with either myself or the department.

With regard to possible mining on the Wild Coast, I think it was the hon member Watson who said, “But, you know, the Wild Coast, for all its beauty, needs a lot of development”. This is true. But then, what kind of development? Now, here I would like to be upfront with members. There is a difference of opinion between the Department of Minerals and Energy and our department. We have two different mandates. In our view, that region is perfectly suited for ecotourism. We have done a study to, in our view, prove conclusively that we could create many more jobs with ecotourism than mining could ever produce. When I say that, let me immediately say that as a government department, we also recognise certain departments have certain responsibilities. I will come to the National Imagery and Mapping Agency, Nima, amendments in a moment. At the moment, the decision to approve a mining licence is the decision of the Department of Minerals and Energy. So, I must respect that, and our department respects that.

I would like to deal with the issue that the hon member Watson raised of the late submission from our department to the Department of Minerals and Energy. We were involved and we made earlier submissions to that department. They were fully aware of our views, but I must concede that it was in December. Our department did not table it in time. It was submitted late and there are no excuses. But it was submitted, and our director- general then agreed with their director-general that our submission would be considered even if submitted late. That was done. So, this debate about mining on the Wild Coast will continue. I think all the different sides will make their views known publicly and privately and lobby on the issue. We will respect the mandate of the other department, but we will continue to obviously argue our view within the processes that were agreed to and provided for.

On marine issues, yes, we agree to have more honorary fishery officers. Budget permitting, we want to look at targeting reservists to come and assist us with this function. We are also in favour of concluding agreements with other departments and other agencies. Two days ago we concluded an agreement with the SA Revenue Service, which we think will certainly yield some results.

Reading other marine issues, I referred to abalone ranching before. When I sat there, it reminded me that a few days ago we had a convention on biological diversity in Germany. Some of our officials raised with me the issue of ocean fertilisation. So, I said to them that they must explain this concept to me, and they did. So, I want to explain the concept to members. You know that very often there are new technologies that work and some that don’t work. But in the fight for global change, what some people argue, especially American and Australian companies, is that if they start to fertilise the ocean, there will be an increase in the growth of small organisms that will absorb carbon dioxide. So, they have this plan, obviously for financial reasons, to start fertilising the oceans. Many countries, especially developing countries, are opposed to this because they don’t know what the effect of that will be on marine life and on our fishing industry. This is just one consideration in future.

The last issue that I would like to respond to, raised by quite a number of hon members, is the issue of climate change - four or five members raised the issue of climate change. The hon member Magwaza said in the Western Cape they have a plan; they know it is already happening; they know that it will get drier from the western side of the country; and that there will be more severe storms and so on. But they have a plan to deal with this.

There are two dimensions to this. Firstly, we must get an agreement internationally that we as a developing country feel they must protect our interests because that agreement will also expect some things and certain commitments from us as a country. But we must also make sure that as a country, apart from that international agreement, we must do more and do the right thing.

On the international agreement, I would like to convey to members that our view as a country is very firm. In agreeing to the international agreement by the end of next year, our view is that the developed world caused this problem of climate change and we are on the receiving end of this thing. So, we are saying to them that we are willing to do more and they can measure what we are doing and they can verify, but they must shoulder their responsibility. There is no way in which they will force us as a developing country to accept the same kind of targets that they must accept. As a country, we must be very firm on that issue.

The chairperson referred to the long-term mitigation scenario study and certain options that we should consider using in the transport sector and in the renewable energy sector. We must make sure that later we translate that, as I said, into legislative, regulatory and fiscal packages - make a policy and legislate for that. Here I would like to ask the hon members to work with our department and that we all take a long-term view. The longer we wait to deal with this issue, the more difficult it will become.

Ninety per cent and above of our energy in this country is coal-fired energy, which is basically dirty energy. So, if we want to be forward- looking and make sure that 10 or 20 years from now on we don’t have a crisis a thousand-fold or ten thousand-fold of the Eskom challenge that we had recently, we must change the energy mix in our country. We must start to work on renewable energy resources. And yes, nuclear energy is certainly part of what we should have as part of our energy mix. And I would really like to call on members here to bear in mind that if we discuss this issue in Parliament and with other government departments, we must convince them that we are doing the right thing and that we are taking the long-term view here. We must convince them that we are not taking the narrow short-term view - what we can only do over the short term - but we are starting to now put things in place that will really benefit us as a country in future.

The last issue that I would like to deal with is the issue of legislation on the table of the NCOP. Our department has been working with the chairperson and the portfolio committee. I would really like to thank this House for the way that they are dealing with our legislation and how they accommodate us. As a department and as the Minister, I must say we appreciate this.

On the National Environmental Management Act, Nema, amendments, we feel that it is a historic agreement to bring mining into the fold now. For the first time ever, mining will be treated as all other industries are treated in this country and will be required to do environmental impact assessments, EIAs, in terms of our legislation and not in terms of their own legislation. We think this is progress. This will protect poor communities because it is the poor communities that suffer; one of the members made that point. It is the poor communities that suffer because of mining dumps next to them and other uncontrolled activities. It is important that we agree on a framework.

Chairperson, we will continue working with this House to make sure that we are able to pass this legislation in this term. And chairperson, I really appreciate your effort in this regard. Thank you. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon members, on your behalf, I want to take the opportunity to thank the Minister once more for his leadership in the budget debate today. Thank you very much, hon Minister.

Debate concluded.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PARLIAMENTARY OVERSIGHT AUTHORITY ON FACILITIES FOR MEMBERS OF NATIONAL ASSEMBLY AND PERMANENT DELEGATES TO NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES (L19)

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: “Daar is nie genoeg kole nie”. [We do not have enough coal in the country.] We have a very big shortage of coal in this country.

Chairperson and hon members, thank you very much for the time you have given to present this report. Let me start with what I think the members will request me to do. I will end up with what you have already requested me to do and tell you what we have achieved.

Let me thank Kgoshi Mokoena who assisted me in going through the report. I asked you to please read the ATCs and raise some of the issues you feel need to be amended in the document. Kgoshi Mokoena has already done that. So, I will first look at those issues quickly with you, and I promise you that I will take them back to the Parliamentary Oversight Authority, POA, so that we can amend it again.

This is a policy document. We should keep on amending all the time when a need arises. So, I will start with that and then come back to the things which you asked me to present to the POA last time so that they can be effected in the policy document.

Under 1(c), Kgoshi Mokoena has drawn my attention to the fact that when members travel with their children, they cannot travel business class but have to travel economy class. Kgoshi Mokoena has actually put in a request that this be amended so that when members travel business class, they travel with their children in this class. I will put this proposal to the POA at their next meeting.

The other request which we haven’t looked at and still have to look at is the question of the distance of 800 km in your vehicle when you travel. You are allowed to sleep in a hotel. I don’t want to see you rolling and capsizing in your car as happened to Sulliman who nearly died last time because he wanted to drive the whole night through and go to that little dorpie [village] of his, De Aar, and not stop on the road because there was nowhere to sleep. You cannot sleep in the car; it is very terrible on the roads these days.

So, we have allowed members to sleep - book into a hotel and sleep. However, the problem with this is the amount of R950 that Kgoshi Mokoena has indicated to me that includes bed, dinner and breakfast. We agreed in the POA that we cannot say to members that they must go and sleep in a hotel and not eat. They must eat in the evening because they might arrive very late at the hotel. So, we allow you to eat and have breakfast and then drive and go. The money indicated here seems to be very little – R950. I did not check that. I don’t know what a nice lodge costs today per night. I promise that we will recheck the figure. That is the thing we need to revisit, but just know that you are allowed to sleep over.

The other thing that Kgoshi Mokoena indicated to me is the question of an increase in telephone allocations. He said to me that telephone allocations have not been changed, yet it was indicated to us by staff that they have changed all these rates and that these were the new rates. Kgoshi Mokoena has just indicated to me that it is not like that. So, I will put this matter back to the POA again. I will make sure that I check the rates myself and compare them with the rates which we have been given here. According to Kgoshi Mokoena, all these are old rates and members cannot work like this. I know telephone rates have increased quite tremendously.

The other thing that Kgoshi Mokoena has drawn my attention to is adding equipment and furniture for members. According to this clause, and I quote: “The Secretary will provide each member with the following items: 1 laptop computer; 1 printer; 1 Internet connection and software; 1 personal digital assistant … Kgoshi Mokoena says he is actually paying for these things himself. That is what he indicated to me. I was not aware of that. When I talk about a personal digital assistant, I am talking about this thing over here. [Interjections.]

You pay R2000?

HON MEMBERS: Yes.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: On your tax? You see, there it is. Those issues have now been brought to my attention. I will attend to them. I hope the Table is listening. I would like them to record all these things and then after the sitting just put it to me in writing that these were the issues which were raised by the members so that I can work on a document that I can present at the next POA meeting. So, if you do discover that there are other things that should be amended in this document, please bring them to my attention. I am leading that team myself. Bring them to my attention and I will put them before the POA so that we amend those things and include them.

But, for today, I want members to approve the following: firstly, that we allow all members who are 70 years of age to travel business class. Whether you came yesterday or today, if you are 70 years of age, you shall travel business class. Is there anyone here who is 70 years of age? [Interjections.] You are all young. Okay. But that is what I seek of you to approve today.

Secondly, rates do change and you should realise that when you claim for your travelling. For example, in the old document we recommended that you must be paid an AA rate per kilometre. Now we discover that the government rate actually, at times, becomes higher than the AA rate. Now, what we are saying in this document is that you must be paid the highest of the AA rate or the government rate per kilometre. That is what we are saying. [Interjections.] Whichever is higher. You must be paid at the highest of the AA rate or the government rate. Whichever rate applies, that is what you must claim.

So, in respect to all travel-related matters - I am not going into all of them - the clauses are there; you will see them. That is what we recommend. I don’t know whether you are aware that if you travel an average of 30km or more you must claim those kilometres. [Interjections.] It is in the policy. Do you know that? You must claim that rate that I am talking about. So, those people who stay at … [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: Acacia Park … [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Acacia Park? No! Pelican Park and Laboria Park. I am not too sure about Acacia Park. [Laughter.]

Another thing that we suggest in the document relates to the class of air travel, that is, in terms of air journeys undertaken in order to attend approved committee meetings. [Interjections.] You must travel business class. [Interjections.] I am told that is already being put under action; I am not too sure. [Interjections.] It is not? If it is an approved committee meeting, you travel business class. That is approved. I want the House to approve that. The other thing that I just want to notify you members on is about your vehicles. Do you remember that the old document used to say when you transport your vehicle home by train or you drive once per year we take one ticket from your allocation? That has now been removed. If one of your tickets is taken, just refuse. The Secretary to Parliament must pay for that, to and fro. If you drive, in other words, from Cape Town to home, you claim that rate of kilometres. If you drive coming back you do the same. But if you rail your car, the Secretary must pay the expense and not from your allocation of tickets. That is what I want you to approve.

We come to the crucial one. You need to listen very carefully on this one because members want to eat me alive all the time when it comes to this one on visits to provinces by permanent delegates of the NCOP. These are, and I quote, “Members who are required to visit the provinces on official business”. Now, let’s check what “official business” is. Official business is Taking Parliament to the People. Those who have 10 years of service must remember this. It is on page 1. Provincial Weeks are also considered official business because when you go and do your oversight functions, you are doing official business. Briefings for mandates are official business. Parliament has to pay for that. I am talking about the members with 10 or more collective years of legislative and parliamentary service. It doesn’t matter whether you served 5 years in the legislature and 5 years here. That makes 10 years and then you qualify. [Interjections.] Am I making that clear? It is your service combined. However, if you have served 3 years in the legislature and 3 years here, that makes it 6 years. So, you don’t qualify. [Interjections]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Order! We are still in a formal session of the House. I want to take a point of order or a question from the hon member there at the back. [Interjections.]

Order! Hon member, you are out of order. Local government is a sphere of government on its own. It is a basic thing that an hon Member of Parliament must understand. Can you continue, Chair!

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The other thing I am proposing that the House adopt today is that Parliament must print business cards out of Parliament’s pocket - 500 per member per year. That is what I am requesting you to approve. I don’t know whether they are printing business cards for you. [Interjections.]

HON MEMBERS: Yes.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: How many?

HON MEMBERS: Five hundred.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Okay, fine. Thank you.

The other issue we want you to approve as a House today, which is the last one, is that in the event of the death of a member, the Secretary will contribute an amount of R30 000 towards funeral expenses. What used to happen was that we used to take this R30 000 from your pension, which was wrong. We used to do that in the past. In other words, when your family had to get your entire pension, they got your pension less the R30 000. What we are saying now is that Parliament must pay that R30 000 to assist in the funeral without touching your benefits. That is what we are asking the House to approve. The other thing we are asking the House to approve is that we must pay the cost of ground transport and accommodation for at least 15 members to attend the funeral service of that particular member. That is what we are proposing. [Interjections.] Fifteen members.

That is all I am asking the House to approve for today. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Thank you, Chairperson. Before we proceed, I made an observation as you presented this critical policy statement, which is supposed to be implemented with urgency, that I don’t seem to see senior officials of the NCOP so that there are no differences in terms of interpretation and contextualisation. But maybe, Chairperson, that is something we may take note of. When Ministers make their policy statements, all their senior officials come here because they must know what members say and so on.

Debate concluded.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): I shall now put the question in respect of the Third Order. The question is that the report be agreed to. As this decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I need to ascertain very clearly whether delegation heads are present in the Chamber.

I shall now also allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations in terms of Rule 71 if they so wish. Is there any province wishing to make any declaration of vote? There is obviously none.

We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour or against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Mr A T MANYOSI: Siyaxhasa. [We support.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Free State?

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Ondersteun. [Supports.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Gauteng?

Mr E M SOGONI: Elethu. [We support.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal supports.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Limpopo?

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Limpopo re a e thekga. [Limpopo supports.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Mpumalanga?

Mnr V V Z WINDVOЁL: Mpumalanga stem volkome saam. [Mpumalanga fully supports.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Northern Cape?

Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Noord-Kaap ondersteun. [Northern Cape supports.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke ya rona. [North West supports.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Western Cape?

Mr N J MACK: Die Wes-Kaap ondersteun. [The Western Cape supports.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Just before I make a ruling on the voting, I think it should also be taken care of that we don’t have to complain that this system is collapsing. I don’t know whether it is you, Mr Tshabalala, but whoever is responsible should note that some members can hardly speak on this thing. Somebody is getting paid to take care of this and they must really do so. Maybe it is also important to make that point.

All provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

The Council adjourned at 18:03. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Draft Bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159

(1)    Skills Development Amendment Bill, 2008, submitted by the
     Minister of Labour.  Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Labour
     and the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises.

(2)    Built Environment Professions Bill, 2008, submitted by the
     Minister of Public Works.  Referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Public Works and the Select Committee on Public Services.


(3)    National Radioactive Waste Management Agency Bill, 2008,
     submitted by the Minister of Minerals and Energy.  Referred to the
     Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy and the Select Committee
     on Economic and Foreign Affairs.

(4)    Provision of Land and Assistance Amendment Bill, 2008, submitted
     by the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs.  Referred to the
     Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs and the Select
     Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs.

(5)    Intellectual Property Rights from Publicly Financed Research and
     Development Bill, 2008, submitted by the Minister of Science and
     Technology.  Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Science and
     Technology and the Select Committee on Sport and Recreation.

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson

   a) Report of the Youth Parliament held on 20 – 22 June 2007, Old Assembly Chamber, Parliament;

   b) Report of the Women’s Parliament held on 27 – 29 August 2007, Old Assembly Chamber, Parliament; and

   c) Report of the People’s Assembly held on 17 – 19 September 2007, Mbizana Village.

2. The Minister in The Presidency a) Strategic Plan of The Presidency for 2008/9 – 2010/11.

3. The Minister of Safety and Security

   (a) The Report of the Independent Complaints Directorate on Domestic Violence for the period July – December 2007, tabled in terms of section 18(5)(c) of the Domestic Violence Act, 1998 (Act No 116 of 1998).