National Assembly - 25 August 2005
THURSDAY, 25 AUGUST 2005 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
The House met at 14:02.
The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr M M SWATHE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move:
That this House discusses the unsustainably high salaries and bonuses paid to some municipal managers in the light of poor service delivery in certain municipalities.
[Applause.]
PRESIDENTIAL REMUNERATION PACKAGE
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I hereby move the motion printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:
That the House resolves that -
(1) in terms of section 2(1) of the Remuneration of Public Office
Bearers Act, 1998 (Act No 20 of 1998), and having due regard to
the criteria listed in that subsection, the salary and motor
vehicle allowance payable to the President of the Republic of
South Africa be determined at eight hundred and thirty seven
thousand eight hundred and ninety nine rand and thirty five cents
(R837 899,35) and two hundred and seventy nine thousand two
hundred and ninety nine rand and seventy cents (R279 299,70) per
annum, respectively, with effect from 1 April 2005; and
2) in terms of section 2(2) of the said Act, the amount of forty
thousand rand (R40 000) per annum be determined as that portion of
the remuneration of the President to which section 8(1)(d) of the
Income Tax Act, 1962 (Act No 58 of 1962), shall apply.
Agreed to.
MEMBERS' STATEMENTS
VIGILANCE AGAINST CORRUPTION
(Member’s Statement)
Mrs T J TSHIVHASE (ANC): Deputy Speaker, the ANC applauds the initiative taken by the Minister and the Department of Social Development to fight corruption within the department and within the social security system. The anticorruption campaign and the indemnity offer made by the Minister have successfully saved R400 million of social grant money.
Nearly 86 000 illegitimate beneficiaries have asked for indemnity and we thank them for coming forward. Of these, 21 000 have already been granted indemnity and 44 000 cases are with the police for further investigation. Corruption and unethical conduct pose a major challenge within the public, civil and private sectors. Wherever they occur, they undermine the values and objectives of our transformation agenda. These kinds of activities rob the poor of their only source of income and undermine our efforts to alleviate poverty. We call on all our people to be vigilant and report cases of corruption to the nearest police station or call the free number normally provided for such purposes. I thank you.
PETROSA, IMVUME AND THE ANC
(Member’s Statement)
Adv H C SCHMIDT (DA): Deputy Speaker, answers provided by PetroSA, who appeared before Scopa yesterday, demonstrate that Imvume management misled PetroSA about the purpose for which it needed an advance payment of R15 million. Instead of buying oil condensate as required by its contract, Imvume used R11 million of public money to finance the ANC’s 2004 election campaign. This resulted in its own effective insolvency and PetroSA having to make a double payment. It is also apparent that PetroSA failed to implement the appropriate internal financial checks before granting the advance payment to Imvume.
The National Prosecuting Authority must urgently launch a full and comprehensive forensic investigation into the relationship between PetroSA, Imvume and the ANC. Further, the ANC must break its silence on this matter and undertake its own internal inquiry into its role in Oilgate. The DA has written to the NPA, requesting that they investigate this matter. We are still awaiting their response. I thank you. [Applause.]
MISUSE OF ORGANS
(Member’s Statement)
Dr R RABINOWITZ (IFP): Deputy Speaker, since it is Organ Transplant Week, the IFP would like to draw attention to the misuse of organ transplantation by various doctors in KwaZulu-Natal. We would like to commend law enforcement officers and members of the public who have exposed this misuse of organs, which has literally turned people into bags of money, instead of unique beings who function in a balanced way, to participate in balanced communities in a give and take fashion.
We call upon all members of the medical profession and members of the public to be aware of the potential for the misuse of human bodies, masking greed as service, and rather to use their skills as health professionals in an ethical way.
IMPROVED HOUSING STRATEGIES
(Member’s Statement)
Mr G D SCHNEEMANN (ANC): Deputy Speaker, the recent statement made by President Mbeki at the launch of the Brickfields Housing Project, that “we have, among others, an urgent challenge of bringing to a stop the pro-rich housing development strategies that ensure that the best located land close to all the best facilities is always available to the rich”, is welcomed and fully supported by the ANC.
This statement echoes the announcement by the Minister of Housing, Lindiwe Sisulu, during her budget speech on 17 May 2005, that all housing developments not subsidised through state funding should allocate 20% of the development to affordable housing. The Portfolio Committee on Housing, during its strategic planning workshop in 2004, emphasised the importance of building a society that is truly united, nonracial, nonsexist and democratic and the need for a single and integrated economy that will benefit all South Africans.
We also welcome the support and commitment of the chief executive of Engel and Volkers, Mr Patrick O’Shea, and the incoming chief executive of the SA Property Owners’ Association, Mr Neil Gopaul, to working with government to ensure effective and integrated housing development. In all deliberations which have taken place in the Portfolio Committee on Housing, all members of that committee have supported the stance of the President and the Minister.
We call on all South Africans, and in particular the housing sector, to join and support government in providing vibrant, sustainable and integrated human settlements. I thank you. [Applause.]
VIOLENCE IN SCHOOLS
(Member’s Statement)
Ms N M MDAKA (UDM): Deputy Speaker, the UDM expresses its shock at the revelations yesterday at the Western Cape Safe Schools Indaba. It was reported by the head of education in the province that 850 schools have been categorised according to the levels of violence and crime they are exposed to. A startling 125 schools fell into the high-risk category and an additional 85 schools were described as extremely high-risk schools.
These 220 schools represent approximately 220 000 pupils who on a daily basis would experience violence and crime in or near their school. The result is that many schools have become unsafe for both pupils and teachers, whilst criminals run amok. These disturbing statistics indicate that a major section of the school-going population of the province is being deprived of a proper education.
The long-term implications for the upliftment of these communities can only be guessed. The UDM repeats its call upon the Ministers of Safety and Security and Education, and their provincial counterparts, to develop an integrated strategy to make the province’s schools places of safety and the first step in overcoming the gang culture that is threatening many communities. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
SOUTH AFRICA’S ECONOMIC GROWTH
(Member’s Statement)
Mr S SIMMONS (NNP): Deputy Speaker, South Africa has achieved a level of macroeconomic stability without parallel in 40 years. In the decade prior to 1994 economic growth averaged less than 1% a year. Since then it has averaged almost 3% a year. In 2005 South Africa entered its 26th quarter of continuous positive growth, marking the longest expansionary phase in its history. The economy grew by 2,4% in the second quarter of 2005, compared to 2,8% GDP growth in 2003 and 3,7% in 2004.
The Minister of Finance is to be commended for his sound economic management. Under his financial leadership South Africa is now rated as the most competitive economy in the sub-Saharan region and the most attractive economy in Africa to invest in.
This positive economic growth should now be converted into jobs. Unemployment is still too high, with varying statistics that range from over 30% to as high as 42%. Let our focus for the next decade be the economic integration of the previously disadvantaged majority. Thank you.
INSENSITIVE TREATMENT DURING LAST RITES
(Member’s Statement)
Mr L M GREEN (ACDP): Deputy Speaker, the ACDP wishes to express its shock at Somerset Hospital’s insensitive treatment of a grieving family. By disrupting the last rites of Mr Robert Fester, the staff member concerned acted in a manner that can only be described as inhumane. It is during times of serious illness and death that people need all the support that they can get. This applies to everyone, regardless of his or her faith, nationality or position in life. It is unacceptable that this traumatic time for the Fester family was further overshadowed by the callousness of the hospital staff member concerned.
This incident highlights concerns about declining services and conditions within our health services. It emphasises the need for trained, caring professionals to be employed at our health institutions, and for government to give serious attention to conditions at state hospitals. It is deeply disturbing that people should spend their last hours in a run-down environment and still have to listen to disrespectful remarks from staff members.
The ACDP calls upon hospital staff to exercise compassion and respect during hospital prayer vigils and we appeal to all staff members to give their full support to all religious leaders who administer the last rites at hospitals throughout our country. Thank you.
INTERNATIONAL DAY FOR REMEMBRANCE OF SLAVE TRADE AND ITS ABOLITION
(Member’s Statement)
Mr S L TSENOLI (ANC): Deputy Speaker, this week, on 23 August, was the International Day for the Remembrance of Slave Trade and its Abolition.
The period of slave trade right here in Cape Town and its surroundings must not be forgotten and ignored, but should be recognised as a crucial part of our history.
The unacceptable slave trade was recorded callously, with no indication of the humanity of those about whom transactions were conducted. The slave trade was characterised by the abuse of African people in general, such as that of Sarah Baartman. This abuse was rubbed in when former slaves lost their land through Acts such as the Land Act.
The year 1994 was an important break-through for the country, especially for indigenous people who also experienced this deep slavery problem.
We recognise that people were taken out of Africa to foreign countries and others were brought into Africa - such as those from Malaysia, including indentured labour from India and Indonesia - through the slave trade.
We in the ANC remember these brutalities with deep commitment to the creation of a caring society that values solidarity and a deep culture of human rights.
I thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]
THE ANC AND AFRIKAANS
(Member’s Statement)
Mev D VAN DER WALT (DA): Mevrou die Adjunkspeaker, die DA verwelkom die verklaring van die ANC Hoofsweep, agbare Goniwe, vroeër die week waarin hy die Afrikaanssprekendes in Suid-Afrika gelukwens met die taal se 130ste verjaarsdag, die doelwitte wat die taal bereik het en die erkenning dat Afrikaans ’n rolmodel, ook vir ander tale in ons land, is.
Die uitdaging aan die ANC-regering, egter, bly om daad by word te voeg en te verseker dat Afrikaanssprekendes, soos andertaliges, in hul eie moedertaal onderrig kan word. Statutêre aansoekvorms by alle departemente, soos byvoorbeeld tydens die huidige stormloop vir die hernuwing van vuurwapenlisensie-aansoeke, moet in mense se moedertaal wees, sodat hul hul aansoeke in hul eie taal kan voltooi.
Die Afrikaanssprekendes het by wyse van die 11-jaarlange onderhandelings tussen die ANC en die VF Plus ervaar dat gelukwense en onderhandelings meestal net vir mediakonsumpsie is voor verkiesings. Ek dank u, Mevrou die Adjunkspeaker. (Translation of Afrikaans member’s statement follows.)
[Mrs D VAN DER WALT (DA): Madam Deputy Speaker, the DA welcomes the statement made earlier this week by the Chief Whip of the ANC, hon Goniwe in which he congratulated Afrikaans speakers in South Africa on the 130th anniversary of their language, the objectives the language has achieved and the recognition that Afrikaans is also a role model for other languages in our country.
The challenge for the ANC-led government, however, is to put their words into action and ensure that Afrikaans speakers, like speakers of other languages, can be taught in their mother tongue. Statutory application forms of all departments, such as those used during the current rush to apply to renew firearm licences, must be available in the applicants’ mother tongue so that they can fill in their application forms in their own language.
The Afrikaans speakers have, through the 11-year long negotiations between the ANC and the FF Plus, discovered that congratulations and negotiations are primarily for media consumption before elections. I thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: Since she mentioned me, and I am not a Minister, will you give me an opportunity to respond?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Not at all. That is a very good try, but we won’t, sir. [Laughter.]
GOVERNMENT’S PROJECT CONSOLIDATE BEARS FRUITS
(Member’s Statement)
Mr M M S LEKGORO (ANC): Madam Deputy Speaker, the ANC congratulates the 22 Northern Cape municipal managers and other officials who recently completed special capacity-building programmes at the Free State University. This is an encouraging effort in an endeavour to address the grave lack of skills in our country’s municipalities.
Project Consolidate and other government efforts have pointed to lack of skills as a major cause for poor service delivery throughout the country. We call on the Minister, the Department for Provincial and Local Government, the local government Seta and all stakeholders in the training sector to pay more attention to rapid delivery of critical skills for local government to enhance service delivery capacity.
I thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]
CRISIS IN COMBAT READINESS OF SANDF
(Member’s Statement)
Moulana M R SAYEDALI-SHAH (DA): Madam Deputy Speaker, reports of a crisis in the combat readiness of the SA National Defence Force are indeed a cause for great concern. Just as we have warned for many years now, the cost of the arms deal is placing an unbearable burden on the operational capacity of the SA National Defence Force. The result of the government’s misplaced priorities is that the SA National Defence Force may be unable to repel a serious conventional threat to South Africa’s territorial integrity.
This is unacceptable. The blame for it must be laid squarely at the feet of the current and previous Ministers of Defence. It is about time that the government acknowledged the folly of the arms deal and took decisive steps to address the crisis in the SA National Defence Force.
Because the people of South Africa pay huge amounts of money through their taxes for defence, they deserve a force that is capable of defending South Africa’s sovereignty and of meeting our responsibilities on the continent. They do not deserve the current mess it is in now.
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]
CONCERN OVER FORMER SAA EXECUTIVE NOW AT AIR MAURITIUS
(Member’s Statement)
Mr H J BEKKER (IFP): Madam Deputy Speaker, it has been reported that the former vice-president of operations at SAA was allegedly paid several million rands to stop him from working for another airline within a year after leaving SAA. He has now joined Air Mauritius in a similar capacity less than eight months after leaving SAA.
This person was SAA executive vice-president of operations from March 2002 until November 2004. Although he was not the only SAA executive to receive a restraint of trade payment, he apparently received the largest share of the severance packages.
Considering the large sum of money involved, we urge the relevant authorities to look into this person’s move to Air Mauritius thoroughly so as to establish whether there was any violation of his agreement with SAA, since it is also stated in the Transnet annual report that restraint of trade agreements with its executives only terminate after one year. It should also be established whether there would be any negative impact for SAA as a result of his early move to another airline.
I thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.
FREE STATE PUPILS WIN 2005 STOCKHOLM YOUTH WATER
CONSERVATION CHAMPIONSHIP
(Member’s Statement)
Mong S L J MODISENYANE (ANC): Madam Deputy Speaker, barutwana ba sekolo sa Setjhaba-Se-Maketse, mane Botshabelo, Foreisetata, ba hapile sekola sa ba banyenyane phehisanong ya paballo ya metsi e tshwarelwang Stockholm selemo le selemo.
Phehisano ena e khothaletsa batjha, paballo ya metsi le tikoloho. Dinaheng tse 27 tse nkileng karolo, Afrika Borwa e ile ya boela ya itlhoma pele. E se e le ka makgetlo a mabedi dilemong tse tharo tse fetileng Afrika Borwa e ntse e nka boemo ba pele, mme e ile ya tswa boemong ba bobedi ka selemo sa 2004.
Paballo ya metsi dinakong tsa pula tse fokolang e thusa ho thibela moyafalo mme e bitswa ``nocturnal hydro-minimizer’’. E thusa tshebediso ya metsi ka tsela e hlokolotsi, etswe Afrika Borwa e a ameha dinaheng tse nang le moyafalo e hodimo.
ANC e phaella taba ya letona le kgabane ho tsa metsi le meru, tjama, thoholetsong e lebisitsweng ho Pontsho Moletsane, Elvis Moshodi le Sechaba Ramabenyane ba ileng ba bea sekolo sa Setjhaba-Se-Maketse, Botshabelo sehlohlolong, mme e ba nkela hloohong haholo.
ANC e kgothaletsa dikolo ho kenela phehisano ena ka bongata. ANC e boela e mamiella pehelo ena ya letona ya hore boramahlale ba hosane ba botjwa ka tsela e jwalo ho tloha bonyenyaneng ba bona. Ke a leboha. [Lehofi.] (Translation of Sotho member’s statement follows.)
[Mr L J MODISENYANE (ANC): Madam Deputy Speaker, the learners of Setjhaba- se-maketse School at Botshabelo, Free State, won the water conservation youth championship which is held in Stockholm annually.
This competition encourages youth about water and environmental conservation. Out of 27 participating countries, South Africa came first again. This is the second time in the past three years that South Africa has held the first position, and it took second position in 2004.
Water conservation, in times of less rainfall, helps to prevent air pollution, and this is called the nocturnal hydro-minimizer. It helps in the proper usage of water, since South Africa is one of the countries affected by high air pollution.
The ANC supports the hon Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry in congratulating Pontsho Moletsane, Elvis Moshodi and Sechaba Ramabenyane, who put Setjhaba-se-maketse School, Botshabelo, at the top, and it recognises this.
The ANC encourages schools to participate in this competition in large numbers. The ANC further supports the report by the Minister that future scientists are mentored in this way from their childhood.
I thank you.] [Applause.]]
CREATING JOB OPPORTUNITIES
(Member’s statement)
Nksz N C KONDLO (ANC): Sekela Somlomo, urhulumente okhokelwa ngumbutho wesizwe i-ANC uyakuthi gqolo usebenzisana nabemi beli lizwe ekwakheni amathuba emisebenzi nokulwa indlala. Kulo nyaka uphelileyo umama uLumnka Nzimela wahlelwa yingozi yenqwelo eyamshiya engcileza ukuhamba baye oogqirha bemxelela ukuba akanakukwazi ukuphinda aphile ngokuthe qete. Kwanyanzeleka ukuba awuncame umsebenzi wakhe kumzi wokwenza iinqwelo- mafutha wakwa Volkswagen eTinarha.
Lo mama akazange awe madolo akuziva ezi ndaba, koko waxoza mphini wumbi waziqalela ishishini leendawo zokulala i-bed and breakfast ngokolwimi lwasemzini. Sithetha nje ngoku uqashe abanye abantu abane abancedisana naye kweli shishini. Urhulumente wesixeko se-Nelson Mandela Metro okhokelwa yi- ANC unika uncedo lokufundisa lo mama nabasebenzi bakhe ngoqeqesho lokuqhuba ishishini elikumila kunje. Umama uLumnka Nzimela uthi ke xa ethetha, ‘Ndakhuthazwa yintetho kaMongameli welizwe xa wayesithi, Vuka uzenzele. Boomama vukani nizenzele. Lithi iqhalo lesintu, Imbila yaswela umsila ngokuyalezela.’ Ndiyabulela. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa speech follows.)
[Ms N C KONDLO (ANC): Deputy Speaker, the ANC-led Government will continue to co-operate with the citizens of this country in creating job opportunities and alleviating poverty. Last year Ms Lumnka Nzimela was involved in a car accident which left her with a limp, and doctors told her that she would never fully recover. She was forced to leave her job at a motor manufacturing company Volkswagen South Africa in Uitenhage.
This woman never lost hope after hearing this news, and instead she devised a plan to start a bed and breakfast business. As we speak now, she has hired four other people to help her in this business. The Nelson Mandela Metro, which is led by the ANC, has given this woman and her workers some assistance in the form of training in how to run such a business. Ms Lumnka Nzimela said, “I was inspired by the speech of the State President of the country when he said, ‘Wake up and do it yourself! Women, wake up and do it yourselves.’ An isiXhosa idiom says, ‘A rock rabbit lost its tail as a result of its laziness.” I thank you. [Applause.]]
MINISTERS’ RESPONSES
VIGILANCE AGAINST CORRUPTION
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Sekela Somlomo, (Deputy Speaker), this is Afrikaans.
Ndinqwenela ukuba onke amalungu abekekileyo abe ayahambisana nentetho yelungu elibekekileyo uTshivhase xa ebesithi zonke izenzo zorhwiphilizo nobuqhophololo ezenzeka xa urhulumente ehlawula izibonelelo kubantu bonke abangaphilanga, abadala okanye abantwana mabazizise emapoliseni ukuze ziphandwe nzulu . . . (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[I would like all hon members to support what hon Tshivhase is suggesting. She suggests that all acts of corruption in respect of the payment of grants for the disabled, old age pensions and child grants must be reported to the police for investigation . . . ]
. . . because it is in fact our mandate as public representatives to raise these issues relating to corruption in engaging with our people all the time. If corruption is not dealt with, particularly by people who are in government, and people like us who are public representatives, it causes immeasurable damage in terms of our programme for the advancement of the cause of our people.
Ndiyacela ke ukuba xa sithetha nabantu sithi kubo, obu buqhophololo abuveli kurhulumente nakubantu abasebenza eburhulumenteni kuphela, koko bukwakho nakwimibutho yasekuhlaleni kanti nakoosomashishini. Kuba kaloku xa sithetha ngobuqhophololo siyathanda ukubashiya ngaphandle oosomashishini. Ndiyabulela. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[We ask you to tell communities that corruption does not only occur in government and among government officials but also in community structures and among business people. This is because when we refer to corruption we have a tendency to exclude business people. Thank you. [Applause.]]
VIOLENCE IN SCHOOLS; MOTHER-TONGUE EDUCATION
(Minister’s Response)
Die MINISTER VAN ONDERWYS: Mev die Speaker, ek kan nie baie goed Afrikaans praat nie. Ek praat kombuis-Afrikaans. Ek wil suiwer Afrikaans praat, en die mense wat suiwer Afrikaans praat help my. Ek ken nie baie Afrikaans nie . . . (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Madam Speaker, I do not speak Afrikaans very well. I speak kitchen Afrikaans. I would like to speak Afrikaans properly and people who do speak Afrikaans fluently are helping me. I do not know much Afrikaans . . . ]
. . . but I am available to be taught. [Applause.]
I am very concerned about the reported safety and security situation in many of the schools in the Western Cape. In fact, the Minister of Safety and Security and the Minister of Education are already working together on this matter, as well as the MEC for Safety and Security, and the MEC for Education in this province and other provinces where we face this particular challenge. We believe that indeed any child who is not safe, as well as teachers, in our schools are being denied a proper context in which to work, and a proper situation in which to enjoy a quality education.
However, it is important for us to say that in fact many of those who pose a threat to our schools are members of the community in which our schools are located. Therefore, as members of Parliament let us not come here to talk to each other about this, but go to our communities and change the way our communities perceive the schools that our children attend. [Applause.]
There is no country in which a school is not a safe place, respected by the community. Therefore there is something wrong in the attitude that our communities have towards our schools. Let us not make cheap politics out of it. Let us ensure that we work with our communities to improve their attitude. You may well laugh, hon member. Unfortunately we lose a lot of computers which are stolen by the very people who live next door to the relevant schools.
We have to ask the communities to stop that practice, and not laugh about it. It is not a laughing matter. It is a serious matter that we must address as parliamentarians in partnership with our communities. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Why don’t you listen, you talk too much. [Laughter.] On the matter of Afrikaans, I want to say that in terms of the law in our country, Afrikaans speakers who wish to be educated in Afrikaans have such a choice by law, and the courts have ruled very clearly on this question, and we must respect the law, as it exists. Nevertheless, we face the challenge of ensuring that all children enjoy equal rights to all languages in South Africa. And that is where we must give our attention. It is not just a question of one language in our country, but of all the languages and creating a multilingual society where parity of esteem for all languages exists. And that is what we will work towards. Thank you. [Applause.]
MULTILINGUALISM; OILGATE; CONDITIONS IN HOSPITALS;
WATER PROJECT IN FREE STATE
(Minister’s Response)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Madam Deputy Speaker, . . .
. . . iyaxaka into yokuba thina saqhekeka iintloko, siziluma amalwimi, sifunda iilwimi ezingezozethu, kube nanamhlanje, ngoku sesikhululekile, kusafuneka siphinde sizilume amalwimi.
Mna bendifuna ukuba sibe nethuba lokusetyenziswa kwesiVenda kule ndawo. Bendifuna amalungu, nala akwela cala, athethe isiVenda nesiZulu xa ephakamile emi kule ndawo, ezona lwimi zicinezelekileyo kweli lizwe lethu, ezona lwimi kufanele ukuba sizikhulule.
Ndifuna ukuthi ke, Sekela Somlomo, siwuvile lo mba we-Oilgate. Uthathiwe nguMkhuseli woLuntu wawuhlalutya, wakhupha ingxelo, kodwa use ngundaba- mlonyeni, awupheli kude kube namhlanje. Ndifuna ukuthi thina siliSebe LeZimbiwa naMandla asibuzi gama lamntu, ukuba uphethe ikhadi likabani, sinceda abantu boMzantsi Afrika.
Sinceda zonke iinkampani, ezixhotyiswe phantsi kwenkqubo ye-BEE kunye neenkampani ezinkulu. Asibuzi phaya ukuba wena nkampani exhotyiswe phantsi kwenkqubo i-BEE usebenza phi na, uza kuthini ngale mali. Asibuzi ukuba wena De Beers uza kugqebhela bani kule mali. Sinceda bonke abantu boMzantsi Afrika. Ngoko ke onobungqina makeze ngaphambili abheke emapoliseni.
Ndifuna ukubulela ilungu elithethe ngemeko yabantu ezibhedlele. Singurhulumente senza unakonako, yiyo loo nto sino-Batho Pele, inkqubo eyenza ukuba abantu banonelelwe kwiNkonzo yoLuntu.
Ndifuna ke ukwenza isikhalo phaya kubefundisi nakwimibutho yezenkolo, ngelithi kaloku le nto asiloxanduva lukarhulumente yedwa, mayiphakame nayo ithathe inxaxheba kangangoko, ukuzama ukubuyisa izimilo, ixelele abasebenzi indlela abantu amabaphathwe ngayo.
Ndifuna ukubulela nelungu uModisenyane. Ndiza kumkhuthaza . . . (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)
[ . . . I find it very strange that at this time in our democracy we should be expected to crack our heads, bite our tongues, while trying to learn languages that are not our own.
I would like us to speak Tshivenda and isiZulu here. Members, including the ones seated on the other side, should speak Tshivenda and isiZulu when they rise to make their presentations, because they are among the languages that had, for a long time, been marginalised and we need to work towards their freedom and upliftment.
Deputy Speaker, I would, therefore, like to say that we have looked at the Oilgate matter. The Public Protector pondered it and released a report but there is still dissatisfaction among members of society because the matter is still being talked about. As the Department of Minerals and Energy, we do not ask people’s names, neither whose card they carry; we assist all the people of South Africa.
We assist all companies, both those that fall under the BEE and those that are large and well established. We do not ask questions about where a BEE company operates or what it is going to do with the money. We would not ask whom De Beers is going to share the money with. We assist everybody in South Africa. Anyone who has evidence of any wrongdoing should go to the police.
I would like to thank the hon member who spoke about the condition of people in our hospitals. The government is committed to improving service delivery in hospitals, which is why we have the Batho Pele programme.
I would also like to call on the church ministers and all religious organisations to join hands with the government and share the responsibility to deal with the process of moral regeneration and educate workers about their conduct and treatment of other people.
May I also thank hon Modisenyane and encourage him to . . . ]
Letona la rona la metsi, hore ka nnete re lebohile ho fanwa ha metsi ho etsahalang Foreisetata, le diporofensing tse ding tsa rona. Ke tla be ke mo kope hore a tswelle pele ka kwetliso, mme a tswelle pele ka ho fana ka ditshebeletso jwalo ka ha mmuso wa rona o etsa. Ke a leboha. [Ditlatse.] (Translation of Sotho paragraph follows.)
[Our Minister of water, we are really thankful about the water project that is happening in the Free State, and our other provinces. I request him to continue with the training, continue to provide services as our government is doing. Thank you. [Applause.]]
COMBAT READINESS OF SANDF
(Minister’s Response)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Deputy Speaker, firstly, the report that was leaked by the DA out of a closed portfolio committee meeting was completely exaggerated. [Interjections.] The impression that is being created is that the Defence Force is not capable of doing its core business, and that is defending the sovereignty of this country and the people of this country. [Interjections.]
The Defence Force of this country is looked upon by all African countries as one of the best-trained defence forces, one that is ready, not only to defend the borders of this country, but also to make sure that there is peace on the whole continent. So anybody who creates the impression that this Defence Force cannot defend the people of the country is irresponsible. [Interjections.]
It is a fact that . . . [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, please, we would like to hear what the Deputy Minister is saying.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE: It is a fact that budgetary constraints and the cut in the budget of the Defence Force have affected some of our capabilities, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the arms deal.
In fact, the arms deal has helped us to be ready to defend this country. [Interjections.] So nobody must make us apologise. The decision we took to buy those Corvettes and those Grippen was the correct one.
Even regarding this issue of budget constraints, we are able to manage and control the constraints, so there is no crisis in the country. I want to say that the people of this country can rest assured that the Department of Defence and the Defence Force of this country will defend them whenever they are called upon to do so. Thank you. [Applause.]
Moulana M R SAYEDALI-SHAH: Who is the enemy?
HEALTH CARE IN STATE HOSPITALS
(Minister’s Response)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Deputy Speaker, I just want to give hon member Green the assurance that if he gives me the details of the situation he described here, we will definitely ask the department to investigate.
I also want to say to you, hon member, that as the Minister of Education has said, all of us have a responsibility to support our health system to ensure that it delivers as the Freedom Charter promised. And I want to actually emphasise the fact that it was this ANC that adopted the Freedom Charter, and we committed ourselves to delivering quality health care. And what have we done? [Interjections.]
We have passed the Patients’ Charter, through which patients can demand to be treated in a fair manner. We have established a quality healthcare hotline, so that each and every patient that is not treated properly can phone the Department of Health and say, I had this problem. And we can mention here that there are issues that we took up when they were brought to our attention.
We have passed the National Health Act. I want to lay emphasis on this Act because it establishes hospital boards. I don’t know how many members of your community belong to these boards. The Act establishes district health committees and ward health committees, through which our people can participate.
Hon member, it doesn’t help to come here and grandstand, because when you make a general, sweeping statement and say that our health facilities are declining, what you are actually doing is discouraging and demotivating those very committed health professionals who are delivering health care in our institutions.
Therefore, I am inviting you and the DA not to just come here and make statements, but also to do something. What are you doing about the problems you have identified? Thank you very much. [Applause.]
ACKNOWLEDGING OF SOUTH AFRICAN OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALLIST
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order hon members, before we move on to the first order of the day, I would like you to join me in acknowledging a South African Olympic Gold medallist, who is with us here in the gallery. Mr Neethling, please, would you rise as we welcome you to the House. [Applause.]
SOUTH AFRICAN ABATTOIR CORPORATION ACT REPEAL BILL
(Second Reading debate)
There was no debate.
Bill read a second time.
Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security - INDEPENDENT COMPLAINTS DIRECTORATE
Ms M M SOTYU: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, members of Parliament, the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa states that we –
. . . lay the foundation for a democratic and open society in which government is based on the will of the people and every citizen is equally protected by law.
The ANC is committed to ensuring that our people and property are protected and kept safe by the SA Police Service. This commitment is underscored by the prerequisites of dignity, respect and human rights.
We support the existence and mandate of the ICD to act as a civilian oversight mechanism to ensure a democratic, human rights- sensitive and corruption-free SAPS.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, will you please take your seat?
Hon members, I think we have forgotten that this is the Chamber where serious business of the country takes place. You are at liberty to go and have a cup of tea and continue your discussions. Some people are actually laughing out loud as if they are at a restaurant.
Hon members, please, if this persists you will be called by name, so that the nation will actually know who is disruptive. We appeal for respect. You know how difficult it is when you are putting a message across and people are not listening. This is an important debate. Let us give the hon member an opportunity to be heard. If you are not interested, or if you have pressing work in the office, please leave quietly and go and continue your work, but give those who would like to listen to the debate a chance. Thank you very much.
Hon member, will you please start from the beginning, because the disruption started then.
Ms M M SOTYU: Deputy Speaker, it seems as if we don’t take our safety very seriously in this country, seeing that members of Parliament are doing what they are doing.
The Constitution of the Republic of South Africa states that we -
. . . lay the foundation for a democratic and open society in which government is based on the will of the people and every citizen is equally protected by law.
The ANC is committed to ensuring that our people and property are protected and kept safe by the SA Police Service. This commitment is underscored by the prerequisites of dignity, respect and human dignity.
We support the existence and mandate of the ICD, that is, the Independent Complaints Directorate, to act as a civilian oversight mechanism to ensure a democratic, human rights-sensitive and corruption-free SA Police Service. It is for this reason that this report is of the utmost importance to the portfolio committee and to all of us.
The Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security held a number of meetings with the ICD national office between March 2005 and June 2005, to discuss their 2005-06 budget allocation. Despite these meetings, the ICD has never been able to provide adequate answers to the concerns raised by the portfolio committee members. After all these meetings, the portfolio committee met with all nine provincial heads of the Independent Complaints Directorate.
The portfolio committee raised the following concerns and observations: Firstly, the high travel budget of the ICD, particularly with respect to the national office. According to the ICD, its total travel expenditure for 2004-05 was R2,9 million, of which approximately R650 000 was spent by the national office. The national office spent more than three times the average expenditure of an entire provincial office and consists of only five managers, including the executive director.
Secondly, the insufficient details on ICD figures for deaths in police custody and police misconduct allowed for the formulation of a potentially incorrect interpretation. This resulted in an interpretation by the Human Rights Watch report that states that there has been an increase in cases of police misconduct, while, in fact, the ICD had attributed the increase to an increase in reported cases of outreach programmes.
The portfolio committee is frustrated by the fact that the ICD only received negative publicity, as this could have been avoided if they had only listened to the portfolio committee. It was disappointing to discover that even the reports that are mentioned in the estimate of national expenditure for 2005, were never submitted to the portfolio committee. There should have been four research reports and four domestic violence reports. Such reports actually did not exist.
It was clear from the ICD provincial reports that even though the ICD received an increase for the 2005-06 financial year, the additional funds were not allocated to core functions, such as investigation, but instead were allocated to national office staff. This impacted negatively at provincial level. There was an increase in complaints by the public about poor service delivery because of a shortage of investigators, as many investigators have resigned from the service.
Many provincial heads identified the lack of satellite offices as reducing the accessibility of services, especially in rural areas. The legal requirement that is applied by the ICD, even regarding the entry-level post for caseworkers that fall under the complaints registry programme, is of great concern to the portfolio committee. The LLB-degree requirement for the salary they are offering makes it even more difficult to attract new recruits into the service.
The portfolio committee discovered that a delay of up to one year in the issuing of appointment certificates added to the staff shortage. It became clear from responses by the executive director that the ICD is not meeting its operational targets; particularly in terms of its core function, which is investigation.
In attempting to get more information regarding ICD expenditure, we consulted with the Auditor–General’s office. The Auditor-General’s office made some recommendations, and he totally agreed with the recommendations of the portfolio committee, which hon Annelizé van Wyk will expound on later.
Sihlalo, Mphathiswa, izinto azimnta’ kaNgqika kweli candelo. Singathanda ukuncedisana noMphathiswa nje kuba enethuba lokuphucula nokumisa ngokutsha eli candelo.
Sikhe sahambela kweli candelo apha eNtshona Koloni, safumanisa ukuba amandla eentloko zamaphondo awalingani. Sifumanise nokuba umsebenzi omninzi wophando wenziwa ngundlunkulu, that is by the national office of the ICD [oko kukuthi yiofisi kazwelonke ye-ICD].
Hayi ke, Mphathiswa, abasethyini bona ababonakali mpela kwicandelo labacuphi. Intsebenziswano enkenenkene, apha naphaya, phakathi kweli candelo namapolisa nayo ithe yaphawuleka kwamanye amaphondo.
Enye yezinto esingathanda ukuba uzijonge, Mphathiswa, xa uqhuba uphuhliso, ngumgaqo-nkqubo wonxibelelwano namajelo eendaba weli candelo. Ikomiti inoluvo lokuba ngathi amandla angasiwa kakhulu phaya kumaphondo, kambe iofisi kazwelonke yona ihlole ukuba amajelo eendaba asetyenziswa kakuhle na, hayi ukuba ibe yiyo enamandla amaninzi. Loo nto ibangela ukuba umsebenzi ungaqhubeli phambili phaya kumaphondo. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Chairperson, Minister, the situation is bad in this directorate. We would like to assist the Minister when he has the opportunity to restructure the directorate.
We visited the Western Cape directorate and established that distribution of power is not equal across the provinces. We found out that the national office of the ICD does a large amount of the work that is supposed to be done by the provinces.
There are no women employees as investigators in the directorate. There are also poor working relations noticeable in other provinces between the directorate and the police department.
One other issue that we would like the Minister to look at is the media communication policy of the directorate. The committee is of the opinion that the powers should be delegated to the provinces and the national office should monitor the process. The great involvement of the national office is impeding progress.]
We should note that in the past the DA voted against the ICD budget; they argued that the ICD should receive greater funding. In accepting this very same report, the DA wanted a bigger budget for the ICD to form part of the recommendations. However, while we are not, in principle, against the ICD receiving more funding, we believe it would be irresponsible to do so while they are clearly not able to manage the existing funding properly. It also needs to be pointed out that the ICD never came to the portfolio committee requesting an increase in funding.
The purpose of this report is to highlight the serious concerns raised by the committee regarding the current functioning of the ICD and to request the Minister to consider these recommendations and concerns when restructuring the ICD. Siyabulela, Mphathiswa, siyabulela. [Thank you, Minister, thank you.] [Applause.]
Mr R JANKIELSOHN: Chairperson, while the average police official in South Africa does good work with limited remuneration and resources, there are always some bad apples that tarnish the image of the Service. It is these few bad apples that need to be rooted out of the Service, and we require a well-resourced investigative unit that is insulated and independent from the SA Police Service to do so.
The ANC government closed down the anticorruption unit at the end of 2001. Between 1996 and its closure, this unit received 20 779 allegations of police corruption, 3 045 police officers were arrested and 576 convicted. It was perhaps the success of this unit, more than any other reason, that led to its closure.
The Independent Complaints Directorate was established in 1997, before the closure of the anticorruption unit. Its purpose was not to replace this unit, but to deal with different complaints. Government made sure from the outset that the ICD would investigate mostly operational issues within the SA Police Service, such as general police misconduct and deaths in police custody.
Corruption is merely a subcategory of misconduct. Corruption is not and never was the main focus of the ICD. In fact, a provincial report states that the IDC has received no training on the application of the Corruption Act. In many instances, the SA Police Service has to provide backup in anticorruption cases, which damages the IDC image as an independent investigative body.
The ANC, however, allowed a crisis to develop within the IDC before acknowledging that this institution has serious constraints. Shortages of investigative personnel, offices and other resources have made the IDC dependent on the SA Police Service, the very people they are meant to investigate, for forensic and other assistance.
Rural areas are the main victims of the underresourcing of the IDC. For example, while the number of cases in the Free State and Northern Cape increased by 92% and 50% respectively, the Free State has three and the Northern Cape four investigators to deal with all investigations.
Investigators in rural provinces have to travel long distances to investigate cases. Slow response times affect evidence as well as the effectiveness and outcomes of the investigations. In Limpopo province 20% of all dockets are returned with enquiries from the Directorate of Public Prosecutions.
Other problems reported to the committee include, among others, the fact that various provinces reported caseloads of up to 300 per investigator. In Limpopo, there are cases that have been pending since 1998. Many investigators do not have policing powers, which implies that they do not have access to police dockets.
The Gauteng report stated that the investigative component is “hopelessly incapacitated to attend to matters monthly in accordance with standard operating procedures, and thus causing complainants to lose faith in the ICD holding the SA Police Service to account”.
With huge budget constraints, management spent R700 000 on decorating their offices, and R42 000 on gifts at a conference. Provincial heads therefore rightfully complain that the budget is allocated disproportionately, with management consuming up to 47% of the budget.
A serious conflict has developed between the ICD nationally and the various provinces, with accusations and counteraccusations being the order of the day. Individuals in provinces lodged grievances with the Minister of Safety and Security in 2003 but, to date, have not yet received a reply from him.
The DA did not support the ICD’s budgets over the past two years, firstly, because of the inadequacy of the budget, and secondly, because of the resulting capacity constraints. Even if the whole budget of R37 000 000 was spent on investigations in the various provinces, this would not be enough for the IDC to fulfil its mandate.
An inadequate budget can constrain the capacity of an institution as much as the abuse or misdirection of that budget. Members of the ICD themselves admit that the unit is unable to hold the SA Police Service to account for their actions.
Anthony Altbeker of the Institute of Securities Studies rightly points out: “ What government chooses to fund can tell us a great deal about where its priorities lie.” This could also apply directly to the ICD’s budget and its lack of a specified mandate to fight corruption.
While the ANC makes a great deal of noise about one or two high-profile corruption cases, it has yet to put its money where its mouth is. In the past, the ANC attacked the DA in this House for voicing the exact concerns about the ICD that the ANC itself is now so vocal about.
I am, however, happy that the ANC has smelled the coffee and has now woken up, or at least has smelled a rat and is now redirecting its poison. Although the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security has missed an opportunity to deal with the budgetary concerns, the DA supports this first attempt by the committee to deal with the problems within the ICD. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Mnu V B NDLOVU: Sihlalo neNdlu ehloniphekile, mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe nabahlonishwa bonke abakhona, kufanele kucacele noma ubani ukuthi kukhona okungahambi kahle neze kulo msebenzi we-Independent Complaints Directorate.
Thina, njengokomidi, asigculisekile neze ngoba imibuzo ayiphendulwa ngokweqiniso, futhi ayikho imizamo yokukulungisa lokho. Ngakho-ke kucacela noma ubani ukuthi kufanele lo mbiko ubekwe lapha ePhalamende futhi iPhalamende liwamukele njengoba unjalo ngenxa yalezi zizathu ezilandelayo.
Okokuqala, wonke amahhovisi asezifundeni awagculisekile ngendlela aphethwe ngayo yihhovisi elikhulu. Okwesibili, akukho ukuxhumana phakathi kwehhovisi elikhulu nawo wonke amahhovisi asezifundazweni.(Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)
[Mr V B NDLOVU: Chairperson and hon House, hon Ministers and all hon members present here, it should be clear to everybody that something is wrong with the Independent Complaints Directorate.
As a committee, we are not impressed because questions are not handled truthfully and there is no effort to correct that. Therefore, it is clear to everybody that the report that is before Parliament should be accepted as it is for the following reasons:
Firstly, provincial offices are not impressed with the way they are treated by the national office. Secondly, there is no communication between the national office and provincial offices.]
There is no communication whatsoever.
Okwesithathu, kunemisebenzi okufanele ngabe yenziwa ezifundazweni, kodwa, lutho, alivumi ihhovisi elikhulu kangangoba lize lisebenzise abaphenyi basezifundazweni ukwenza umsebenzi walo uqobo ihhovisi elikhulu.
Okwesine, mhlonishwa Nggqongqoshe, abalingani abaphathi basezifundazweni kodwa benza umsebenzi ofanayo. Ukuthi yini eyenza bangalingaiswa asazi ngoba umsebenzi abawenzayo ufana nse.
Okwesihlanu, maqondana namacala avelele, umuntu uye abone sekukhuluma umqondisi omkhulu womnyango kodwa bengazi lutho abasezifundazweni noma baphucwe amafayela icala lingakaphethwa, liphathwe komkhulu ngoba mhlawumbe livelele. Kwakhona nje ukuthi abezifundazwe bangawutsheli umphakathi ngomsebenzi abawenzayo, kusho ukuthi akufanelekile ukuthi bakhulume ngamacala ababhekene nawo. Lezi zinto ezibhalwe lapha phansi zikhona njengoba zinjalo. Ngakho-ke kungakuhle umhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe wezokuPhepha nokuVikeleka alusukumele lolu daba futhi ashintshe abathize kulo mkhakha ukuze kusebenzeke kahle.
Mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe, iKomidi lezokuPhepha nokuVikeleka liphakamise ukuthi . . . (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)
[Thirdly, there is work that should be done in the provinces but the national office does not agree. The national office sometimes uses provincial investigators to do work that is supposed to be done by the national office.
Fourthly, hon Minister, provincial heads are not equal but they are doing the same work. We don’t know why they are not equal, because they are doing the same work..
Fifthly, concerning high profile cases, we often hear the Chief Director talking without the knowledge of the provinces and files of high profile cases are even taken away from them and handled by the head office. For the provinces not to inform the public about the work that they are doing means that they are not supposed to talk about the cases that they are dealing with.
Things that are written down here are true. Therefore it would be good if the hon Minister of Safety and Security could take action concerning this issue and remove certain people in this department.
Hon Minister, the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security recommended that . . . ]
. . . in the restructuring of the ICD, the Minister should look at the feasibility of developing separate legislation to govern the functioning of the ICD instead of retaining this in the SA Police Service Act.
The Minister should also review or capacitate the ICD to effectively fulfil its mandate in terms of the Domestic Violence Act. The ICD is not really fulfilling its mandate in respect of this Act. Remove the monitoring of station audits from the responsibility of the ICD, and ensure that the secretariat is capacitated to fulfil its needs.
Ngikhuluma kanjena nje ngoba ngiyazi ukuthi ngixabana njalo ne-secretariat. Umhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe uyongixolela ngoba uyazi ukuthi sixabana njalo ne- secretariat ngoba ayiwenzi umsebenzi. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)
[I am talking like that because we always argue with the secretariat. The hon Minister will forgive me, as he knows that we always argue with the secretariat because it does not do its job.]
They should review the necessity for a newly established research unit; the placement and functioning of an anticorruption command in terms of the national and provincial distribution of resources, and they should also review or capacitate the ICD to fulfil its role in terms of cell inspections.
Mhloniswa uNgqongqoshe, yizinto lezi esicela ukuthi uma ngabe ulungisa i- ICD uzibheke. Mina Velaphi Ndlovu, ngithi umsebenzi we-ICD awungaphathiswa okwesiphaza shop nje somuntu othile. Kodwa akusetshenzwe ngokubambisana futhi kulungiswe wonke amaphutha akhona emahhovisini asezifundazweni ngoba amahhovisi ezifundazwe asemqoka kakhulu ekwenzeni umsebenzi. Yiwona aphethe umsebenzi jikelele, ngakho awanikezwe akudingayo ukuze umsebenzi wawo uphumelele. Ngakho-ke ngiphakamisa ukuthi le Ndlu namhlanje iwamukele lo mbiko njengoba unjalo. Ngiyathokoza.(Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)
[Hon Minister, we request you to look at those things when restructuring the ICD. As Velaphi Ndlovu, I am saying that the work of the ICD should not be run like a spaza shop. They must work together and solve problems that exist in provincial offices. Provincial offices are very important in this job and they must be given the resources they need in order for them to be successful. Therefore, I recommend that the House accept this report as it is. I thank you.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Mr Madikiza, I see you are not on the waiting bench. Are you next on the speakers’ list? Please use the waiting bench.
Mr G T MADIKIZA: Chairperson and hon members, the special report before us highlights a series of problematic issues, which can all be traced back to the national management of the Independent Complaints Directorate. The report is a litany of failures by the ICD national office and its office bearers to ensure that the core function of the ICD is met and seen to be met.
In fact it is of great concern that certain aspects of the ICD’s reporting, or failure to report, are making it almost impossible for Parliament to exercise its oversight function.
It is important to reflect upon the reason for the establishment of the ICD, namely, that in a democratic society, the Police Service must fall under independent scrutiny. This was specifically intended to prevent the abuse of power by the police, which was common under apartheid. The ultimate goal is to ensure that the new democratic Police Service is held accountable and has the trust of the public.
In light of this extremely important function of the ICD, this Parliament cannot idly accept the major failures and concerns regarding the ICD’s current management and functioning.
We concur therefore with the recommendations in this special report, and urge the Minister and the ICD to implement the necessary remedies as a matter of urgency. I thank you. Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, hon Minister, the ACDP is dismayed at the autocratic manner in which the ICD national office operates in relation to the provincial offices. It is evident that the provinces are faced with numerous obstacles that hinder effective functioning on a daily basis. The ACDP strongly recommends that a provincial forum be created. This will provide the provinces with an opportunity to meet regularly with the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security to discuss those issues that affect their performance.
There is an urgent need for the ICD national office to show high levels of transparency. This is crucial to the democratic process, and to the fulfilling of their mandate. They need to furnish the committee with more detailed reports that do not simply reflect the success at head office, but provide an honest reflection of activities, progress and problems, including an assessment of staff morale.
In conclusion, the ACDP requests an official inquiry into the areas of the ICD’s functioning in terms of the Domestic Violence Act, whether the ICD national office is over or underresourced, and complaints lodged by the provincial offices. I thank you. [Time expired.]
Ms S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, regarding the special report of the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security on the ICD, the MF thanks the portfolio committee for bringing forth the many loopholes that need to be seriously addressed.
We agree with the majority that the ICD serves as a very important organ to address and manage SA Police Service matters. Like other parties, we do not approve of the heavy travel expenditure, and suggest that travel expenses be stepped up.
Further regular and detailed reports need to be instituted to ensure proper management and accountability of the ICD. The MF requires an official inquiry to eliminate any lingering questions and loopholes.
We have faith that if the recommendations made are instituted wisely, the ICD’s efficiency and effectiveness will be revived to benefit the SAPS and all South Africans. Thank you, Chairperson.
Ms A VAN WYK: Chairperson, I’m amazed and disappointed that the DA comes here and misses an opportunity to participate in a constructive manner in a debate that actively demonstrates what the role of Parliament in oversight can be. I want to challenge Mr Jankielsohn to bring to the committee proof of those issues that the DA supposedly raised in this House regarding the ICD in the past.
This year, during the Budget debate, they did not utter one single word on the functions of the ICD. Come on, let Hansard prove what you have said here today. Secondly, I also want to challenge the perception that Mr Jankielsohn created here today, namely that the majority of the SAPS is corrupt. That is not the case. [Interjections.] The fact of the matter is that he’s insulting the integrity, the loyalty and the commitment of the majority of SAPS members, who on a daily basis put their lives on the line to defend even people like him. [Applause.]
The principle of human rights as contained in our Constitution informs the operations of the SAPS. The ICD derives its mandate from the endeavour to transform the SAPS into a democratic, transparent and human rights sensitive service providing equal service to all citizens. The Constitution . . . [Interjections.]
Bly tog nou net ’n slag stil; ek is nie ’n meisietjie nie! Dit is regtig geslags-onsensitief. [Tussenwerpsels.] [Just be quiet for a moment; I am not a little girl! This is really gender insensitive.[Interjections.]]
The Constitution, in section 206(6), provides for an independent complaints body established by national legislation to investigate any alleged misconduct of, or offence committed by, a member of the SA Police Service. This provision has resulted in the establishment of the Independent Complaints Directorate, independent from the SAPS and with a separate budgetary allocation.
Despite its financial independence it derives its legislative mandate from the SA Police Service Act, Act 68 of 1995. Sections 50 to 54 pertain to the ICD. In section 53 the ICD’s functions are set out as follows: the investigation of any misconduct or offence allegedly committed by members of the SAPS, by its own accord or upon the receipt of a complaint. The ICD must investigate any death in police custody or as a result of police action.
Furthermore the ICD must investigate any other matter referred to it by the Minister or a member of the executive council. It has a responsibility to monitor police obligations in terms of the Domestic Violence Act. The ICD’s civilian oversight duties are further extended to the municipal police services through section 64 of the SAPS Act and regulation 9 and annexure 5 of the regulations for the municipal police services.
The reason that I’ve spent some time highlighting the functions of the ICD is that in our engagement with the ICD the committee on numerous occasions expressed its concern about the ICD deviating from and focusing resources, both human and financial, on issues outside of its mandate; this despite the fact that they were not meeting their own operational targets. It’s also clear that I need to repeat this today, because it’s clear that the DA also don’t understand the functions of the ICD. [Interjections.] Their primary mandate and functions suffered as a result of the deviation.
In dealing with the recommendations of the committee, I will combine the recommendations dealing with finances and then look at recommendations addressing staff matters, the provision of reports and data, the restructuring of the ICD and the monitoring of the actual implementation of these recommendations. The committee recommends that an extensive performance audit be conducted by the Office of the Auditor-General on the ICD.
This is especially necessary in the light of the ICD not achieving its operational targets. It set itself a target of finalising 80% of cases of death in custody, but in reality only achieved a finalisation rate of 63%. Furthermore, it has failed to provide the six-monthly domestic violence report as determined by the Domestic Violence Act.
In undertaking this performance audit the portfolio committee would like, amongst other things, that the following receives special attention: the extremely high travel costs incurred, specifically by the national office, and the determination of the relevancy of that expenditure in relation to the achievement of the mandate of the ICD; the skewed budget distribution between the national office and the nine provincial offices; the disparities in provincial office accounts for travel, and the budget reporting in general. Upon completion of this report it must be tabled in Parliament.
To counter the high turnover of staff in the ICD we recommend that a retention policy should be developed which is fairly applied both at national and provincial level. The upgrading of posts to ensure the ability of the ICD to attract skilled staff should be explored. Entry level salaries, particularly for investigation and complaints registry and monitoring, should be reviewed.
As far as training opportunities are concerned, we would like to see new staff members undergo induction training within the first three months of appointment. We further recommend that some training be decentralised to provincial level to ensure that provincial managers are able to identify training needs amongst staff and provide this accordingly.
Policies that affect the day-to-day operations of the ICD should be developed in consultation with the provincial offices. That way it would be possible to develop operational policies that reflect the concerns of the people who are affected by them.
Policy should also be reviewed regularly to ensure their relevance to current practice. If policies are a result of public service regulations then this should be explained properly to the staff. In order for the staff to function better the committee further recommends that provincial heads should be entrusted to deal with operational matters without the constant intervention of the national office. Provincial heads should be empowered to approve overtime for staff. Provincial offices should also be able to recruit and appoint entry-level staff and interns according to the requirements and regulations established by the national office.
The delay in obtaining policing powers by the national office should be addressed immediately. It is simply not acceptable, in the light of the severe staff shortage, that obtaining policing powers still takes up to a year to effect and that the national office takes no steps to ensure that existing staff can function effectively. This in itself is a waste of financial and human resources.
I will now deal with the submission of reports to Parliament, the lack of detailed information and the presentation of statistics by the ICD. [Interjections.] You’ve missed the debate!
The ICD does not comply with its duty and legal requirement to submit reports to Parliament. The committee recommends that all research reports and recommendations made affecting management, procedure and operational policy within the SAPS must be submitted to Parliament within one month after completion as a matter of procedure.
The ICD complains that recommendations that they make are not being implemented by the SAPS, yet they fail to inform this committee about these recommendations so as to empower us to assist them in overseeing whether these recommendations are actually implemented.
It appears as if the ICD is only providing information to the committee that depicts it in a positive light and is withholding certain problems and information from the committee. This is counter-productive for the ICD and undermines the oversight responsibility of the portfolio committee.
In order to ensure that reports received are accurate and contain sufficient information, the ICD must ensure that all reports and presentations to the committee contain sufficient detail and are received by the committee at least one week prior to the scheduled briefing. [Interjections.]
The committee reached an agreement with the executive director that all reports will present statistics in such a manner that they provide sufficient detail so as to reduce the possibility of misinterpretation of the information. We cannot again allow a situation in which the way in which statistics are presented leads to a misconception and wrongful interpretation such as in the case of the Human Watch Report of last year. The committee expects that this agreed-upon approach should be reflected in the 2004-05 Annual Report of the ICD that must be submitted to Parliament by the end of September.
During the Budget debate on 12 April 2005 the Minister announced his intention to restructure both the ICD and the secretariat. The committee takes this opportunity to raise certain issues that we believe should be taken into consideration when embarking on restructuring. We request that due consideration should be given to the proper empowerment of the ICD to fulfil its mandated responsibilities effectively.
While it is understood that the ICD functions within its budget constraints, the committee recommends that a feasibility assessment is done on the establishment of satellite or district offices in the provinces to ensure access to the rural areas. We also need to look at creative solutions, including the possibility of establishing these offices based on geographical proximity rather than clear borderlines and the sharing of possible district offices of the secretariat by the ICD staff.
In restructuring the ICD the mandate of the ICD to deal with the Domestic Violence Act should either be reviewed or the ICD should be capacitated. The ICD is not fulfilling its legislative responsibilities in regard to the Domestic Violence Act, largely because of a lack of co-operation by the SAPS. This issue is of the utmost importance and the effective monitoring of police action in this regard is essential.
Provincial commissioners should be held accountable for the implementation of solutions recommended by the ICD to ensure that recommendations are actually implemented and that adherence is given to the requirement specifically of the Domestic Violence Act. We further recommend that the monitoring of the station audits be removed from the responsibility of the ICD and that the secretariat’s capacity to fulfil this function is ensured. Insofar as some inspections are concerned the ICD’s role should either be reviewed, or the ICD should be properly capacitated to conduct these inspections.
The newly established research unit should be reviewed. The committee, in its budget report to Parliament on the ICD, recommended that the establishment of the unit should be shelved pending the restructuring process and that the ICD should consult the Ministry in this regard, as research is not a core function of the ICD. Despite this recommendation the ICD went ahead and unilaterally established such a unit.
The placement and establishment of the anticorruption command in terms of national and provincial distribution of resources and functions should also be reviewed. There’s a need to determine once and for all where this would be best placed and whether it should in fact be with the ICD at all. We believe that the restructuring of the ICD provides the ideal opportunity to look at separate legislation for the ICD. Currently, the only legislation relevant to the ICD is within the SAPS Act and the requirements in the Domestic Violence Act.
The Constitution states clearly that the ICD should be established under legislation, and it’s not desirable for its own functioning and independence that legislation lies within the legislation of the very body that it must oversee. It might also be that the lack of separate legislation is a factor affecting effective management and execution of duties of the ICD.
In monitoring the implementation of these recommendation and the progress made, the committee intends to take the following actions: The committee will schedule annual meetings with the provincial heads to discuss problems and identify solutions to these problems, at least until such time as some of the more serious problems with the national office have been resolved. In addition, the portfolio committee will request quarterly written reports from each of the provincial heads highlighting problems, progress in rectifying them and the status in terms of reaching their operational targets. In addition, the portfolio committee expects progress reports on steps taken by the national office within three months of tabling this report in Parliament and when the need arises in the future.
In conclusion, bringing a report of this nature to Parliament is not something done light-heartedly. It’s a sign of specifically the ANC commitment to oversight, to responsibility as a committee and as a legislature. [Interjections.] The role of the ICD in ensuring a Police Service underscored by dignity, respect and basic human rights is too important to simply ignore what is going wrong within the ICD. If we want to achieve the kind of Police Service that we envisage, then we need, equally, as role-players, to take our role seriously and ensure that we all play our part to rid the SAPS of the few members who undermine its transformation into a truly democratic service. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S ABRAM: Chairperson, on a point of order: During the course of the speech by the hon member Van Wyk, an hon member on the other side - I think it was the DA’s imbongi [praise singer], the hon King - referred to her as a “meisietjie”. I believe that that is degrading and I call for a ruling.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Hon member, you know that the requirements of the House are that we refer to each other as “hon”, and the speaker at the podium did say that you referred to her as a “meisie”. Can you please withdraw that? Can you approach your microphone, please?
Mnr R J KING: Voorsitter, dit was hoegenaamd nie ’n tussenwerpsel nie. Ons het gesit en gesels, en iemand het iets gehoor. Dit was nie ’n tussenwerpsel nie, maar ek is bereid om dit terug te trek. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Mr R J KING: Chairperson, it was by no means an interjection. We were sitting and talking, and somebody overheard something. It was not an interjection, but I am prepared to withdraw it.]
Debate concluded.
The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the report be adopted.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
Consideration of request for approval by Parliament OF STATUTE OF THE CENTRE FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY OF THE NON-ALIGNED MOVEMENT AND OTHER
DEVELOPING COUNTRIES
Mr E N N NGCOBO: Chairperson, hon members, and guests of Parliament, South Africa’s accession to the Statute of the Centre for Science and Technology of the Non-Aligned Movement and Other Developing Countries is what is being presented to this House today.
South Africa is a member of the Non-Aligned Movement through the Department of Foreign Affairs, and now seeks to obtain membership of the Non-Aligned Movement’s Science and Technology Centre. The Non-Aligned Movement’s Science and Technology Centre was set up in August 1989 in New Delhi, India, and offers a magnitude of benefits related to increasing collaboration among scientists from Non-Aligned Movement countries.
South Africa would like to become a member of the centre. There are major benefits to be gained by South Africa through being a member of the Non- Aligned Movement’s Science and Technology Centre, such as the following: The Centre for Science and Technology of the Non-Aligned Movement and Other Developing Countries came into existence as a follow-up of the deliberations of the 5th, 6th and 7th Non-Aligned Movement summits held in Colombo, 1976, Havana, 1979 and New Delhi, 1989, respectively. It was set up in August 1989 in New Delhi, India.
Its main objectives are to provide the fullest possible mutually beneficial collaboration among scientists, organisations and institutions from non- aligned and other developing countries. It will act as a steering house of information regarding the technological capabilities of non-aligned and other developing countries, with a view to promoting scientific and technological co-operation and transfer of technology among them, providing early information about impending technological changes and seeking to develop a data bank.
The centre seeks to stimulate and promote joint research and development projects and training programmes on a bilateral or multilateral basis among the members of the centre in selected fields of special relevance. Finally, it aims to render expert advice in the growth of science, development of technology and the utilisation of natural resources.
I just want to give a brief idea of how the centre operates. The governing council of the centre is composed of representatives of all the members of the centre. For each session of the governing council, a president, vice- president and a rapporteur are elected. The secretariat of the centre is headed by the director of the centre, who himself is appointed by the governing council.
According to the advice obtained from the Chief State Law Adviser in the Department of Foreign Affairs, no possible conflict with domestic law for the Republic of South Africa was identified for South Africa in becoming a member of the centre. Instead, the following were the benefits identified when the Republic of South African becomes a member of the centre. Firstly, total financial support for international travel, boarding and lodging of one nominee of each country participating in the activities organised by the centre.
Secondly, the centre’s Young Scientist Lectureship Award provides the young scientists in member countries with opportunities to develop links and establish closer co-operation with each other in various fields of science and technology, including reimbursement of the full international air travel expenses to the awardees of the scheme to deliver a lecture in an institution in another member country.
Thirdly, there will be dissemination of information on science and technology developments on the website, including the technologies developed by scientists in member countries and other developing countries. Such information can be used for further research and development pertaining to local conditions of the member states.
Fourthly, it will facilitate the organisation of training and hands-on courses for the scientists of member countries in other member countries on a payment basis. Fifthly, there will be free subscription to the centre’s newsletter, which includes important scientific events and discoveries in the developing countries specifically. Finally, there will be free receipt of the centre’s publications in various disciplines such as biotechnology for food security in developing countries, aromatic and essential oil- bearing plants of member countries, etc.
In terms of organisational and personnel implications, these are to be absorbed as part of the line function of the directorate of multilateral co- operation of the Department of Science and Technology. In terms of financial implications, the annual subscription is only $10 000. In terms of constitutional implications, there are none.
The Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology therefore recommends that this House ratify the signing of the agreement by South Africa to the Centre for Science and Technology of the Non-Aligned Movement, in terms of section 231(2) of the Republic of South Africa’s Constitution, Act 108 of
- Thank you. [Applause.] There was no debate.
Statute of the Centre for Science and Technology of the Non-Aligned Movement and Other Developing Countries approved.
The House adjourned at 15:25. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
- Introduction of Bills
(1) The Minister of Health
i) Nursing Bill [B 26 – 2005] (National Assembly – sec 76)
[Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in
Government Gazette No 27904 of 12 August 2005.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Health of
the National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging
Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on
24 August 2005.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bill may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
within three parliamentary working days.
- Draft bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159
1) Precious Metals Bill, 2005, submitted by the Minister of Minerals
and Energy on 25 August 2005. Referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Minerals and Energy and the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign
Affairs.
2) Diamonds Amendment Bill, 2005, submitted by the Minister of Minerals
and Energy on 25 August 2005. Referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Minerals and Energy and the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign
Affairs.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs
(a) Report and Financial Statements of Ncera Farms (Pty) Ltd for
2004-2005, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the
Financial Statements for 2004-2005.
- The Minister of Labour
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Commission for
Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration (CCMA) for 2004-2005,
including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 54-2005].
- The Minister of Education
(a) Report and Financial Statements of South African Council
for Educators (SACE) for 2004-2005, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005.
- The Minister of Arts and Culture
(a) Report and Financial Statements of Artscape for 2004-2005,
including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements for 2004-2005.