National Council of Provinces - 30 June 2004
WEDNESDAY, 30 JUNE 2004 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:00.
The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers and meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col. 0000
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr M A SULLIMAN: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:
That the Council -
(1) notes that the ANC has yet again scored a resounding victory in a by- election, this time in ward 6 in the Emthanjeni Municipality (De Aar, Hanover, Britstown) which was previously a DA ward;
(2) further notes that this by-election was held as a result of the resignation of Councillor A Gafoor from the Democratic Alliance because of the intolerable level of racism within that party;
(3) expresses its dissatisfaction that the DA initially refused to accept his resignation and tried to force him to remain as a DA councillor despite his feeling uncomfortable about the racism within the DA;
(4) notes that the DA eventually accepted his resignation, whereupon Gafoor joined the ANC and was elected unopposed as an ANC councillor; and
(5) welcomes his election as a demonstration of the embracing of non- racism espoused by the ANC and a rejection of racism, both noticeably and subtle, which still characterises parties such as the DA.
Mr M A MZIZI: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of this House I shall move on behalf of IFP:
That the Council -
(1) notes that a forensic audit commissioned by the eThekwini Municipality into black economic empowerment (BEE) fronting, has uncovered a potential scandal involving at least five companies which used to win contracts for Durban’s uShaka Marine World;
(2) further notes that this unethical practice of fronting is common throughout South Africa and is undermining and disrupting the work that is being done to try and implement true black economic empowerment and transformation;
(3) condemns fronting and the people who are enriching themselves through this unethical process; and
(4) hopes that the eThekwini Municipality will take action against the guilty parties once the full report is ready. SOUTH AFRICAN DRAGON BOAT WOMEN’S TEAM
(Draft Resolution)
Mr A WATSON: Thank you, hon Deputy Chairperson. I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with pride -
(a) the exceptional achievement of the South African Dragon Boat
Women's Team who were awarded second place out of 48 teams from
20 countries participating in the International Dragon Boat
Championship in Taipei last week; and
(b) that the leader of this team is none other than the honourable
Sherry Chen, representing the Democratic Alliance in the
Council; and
(2) extends its sincere congratulations to Ms Chen, to her team of 18 young women representing our rainbow nation and to the South African Ambassador in Taiwan, who hosted the team during their sojourn.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
JOINT BUDGET COMMITTEE
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Thank you, hon Deputy Chairperson. I move without notice:
That the Council, with the concurrence of the National Assembly, establishes a Joint Budget Committee, the Committee to -
(1) consist of -
(a) 17 Assembly members as follows: African National Congress 10;
Democratic Alliance 2; Inkatha Freedom Party 1; other parties 4;
and
(b) 9 Council members; (2) consider proposed allocations in the Medium-Term Expenditure
Framework and the Appropriation Bill and whether these allocations
are broadly in keeping with the policy directions of the Government;
(3) make proposals regarding the processes Parliament should follow with regard to its role in the developing of budgets in accordance with constitutional requirements;
(4) on a regular basis monitor monthly published actual revenue and expenditure per department, and to ascertain whether they are in line with budget projections;
(5) consider, when tabled, the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, with the exception of those sections dealing with the macro-economic situation and revenue;
(6) conduct hearings on the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework and Budget Policy Review Document, with the exception of those sections dealing with the macro-economic situation and revenue; (7) exercise those powers in Joint Rule 32 that may assist in carrying out its functions;
(8) report -
(a) on the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement regarding the matters
referred to in paragraph 5; and
(b) quarterly regarding the matters referred to in paragraph 4; and
(9) consider and make proposals regarding the nature of its functions relative to those of other committees in respect of the budget process and conducting oversight, the Committee to report thereon from time to time as may be necessary and to submit a final report by not later than the end of the next budget cycle in Parliament.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
STATEMENT BY MINISTER OF LABOUR
(Draft Resolution)
Mnr A WATSON: Agb Voorsitter, die DA stel sonder kennisgewing voor:
Dat die Huis -
(1) kennis neem -
(a) met hernude verwarring van die uitlating van die Minister van
Arbeid, Membathisi Mdladlana, wat Maandag in Boksburg verklaar
het dat sy kabinetskollega, mnr Marthinus Van Schalkwyk,
eersdaags ten volle by die ANC gaan aansluit; en
(b) dat die DA die ANC die ongerief van mnr Van Schalkwyk in hulle
binnekring gun;
(2) `n beroep doen op mnr Van Schalkwyk om nou vir eens en vir altyd oop kaarte te speel stel;
(3) verder daarvan kennis neem dat kiesers reeds ten volle bewus is van, en ontnugter is deur die politieke verraad wat deur die leierskap van die Nuwe Nasionale Party gepleeg is deur sy ongemagtigde omhelsing van die ANC en sy magsbehepte, sentristiese ideologie; en
(4) van mening is dat die kiesers verdien om te weet wat mnr Van Schalkwyk se verdere verraderlike planne is. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)
[Mr A WATSON: Hon Chairperson, the DA moves without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes -
(a) with renewed confusion the statement by the Minister of Labour,
Membathisi Mdladlana, who said in Boksburg on Monday that his
Cabinet colleague, Mr Marthinus van Schalkwyk, would soon join
the ANC fully; and
(b) that the Democratic Alliance does not envy the ANC the
discomfort of having Mr van Schalkwyk in their inner circle;
(2) appeals to Mr van Schalkwyk to put all his cards on the table once and for all now;
(3) further notes that the voters are already fully aware of, and have been disillusioned by the political treason committed by the leadership of the New National Party by way of its unauthorised embracing of the ANC and its power-crazy, centristic ideologies; and
(4) is of the opinion that the voters deserve to know what Mr van Schalkwyk’s further traitorous plans are.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Is there any objection to the motion? In the light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become a notice of a motion.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Consideration of Votes and Schedule)
Vote No 1 - The Presidency - put. Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 2 - Parliament - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 3 - Foreign Affairs - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Vote No 4 - Home Affairs - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 5 - Provincial and Local Government - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Alliance and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Vote No 6 - Public Works - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 7 - Government Communication and Information System - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 8 - National Treasury - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 9 - Public Enterprises - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 10 - Public Service and Administration - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 11 - Public Service Commission - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 12 - South African Management Development Institute (SAMDI) - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 13 - Statistics South Africa - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 14 - Arts and Culture - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 15 - Education - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Vote No 16 - Health - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Alliance and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Vote No 17 - Labour - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Alliance and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Vote No 18 - Science and Technology - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 19 - Social Development - put. Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 20 - Sport and Recreation South Africa - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 21 - Correctional Services - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Alliance abstaining).
Vote No 22 - Defence - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and Independent Democrats dissenting).
Vote No 23 - Independent Complaints Directorate - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 24 - Justice and Constitutional Development - put. Declarations of vote made on behalf of the African National Congress and Inkatha Freedom Party.
Declarations of vote:
Mr S SHICEKA: Chairperson, the ANC supports the Vote because we believe that much has been achieved in the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development, particularly in putting the supremacy of the Constitution over Parliament. The bench has also been transformed and is beginning to reflect the demographics of our country. By 2002 the conviction rates in our courts had increased to 81%. We also believe that our courts have reduced the time it takes to process cases. We believe that a lot has also been achieved with the establishment of special courts, particularly for sexual offences. In that respect, we believe that much has been achieved because the courts have been taken to the people in the townships and the villages. This means that we have brought justice closer to the people. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, we in the IFP support the Justice and Constitutional Development Budget Vote, but we do have some concerns. The Auditor-General’s report on the annual financial statement of the department for the year ending 31 March 2003 identified a number of areas of concern, including noncompliance with the department’s financial instructions and criminal activities amounting to at least R2,9 million. The department will not be able to move forward and deal adequately with the issues that it is supposed to deal with, unless these problems are addressed urgently. Thank you.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 25 - Safety and Security - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 26 - Agriculture - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 27 - Communications - put. Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 28 - Environmental Affairs and Tourism - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 29 - Housing - put.
Declarations of vote made on behalf of the African National Congress and Inkatha Freedom Party.
Declarations of vote:
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Chairperson, we in the ANC feel strongly that housing the poor is of the utmost importance to us. To be given a key to your own house and to be told that from that day onwards you own that house, is a moment that you’ll always remember and that will always bring tears to the eyes of many rural people. We, as the ANC, are saying that we are going to improve the quality of houses that are going to the built. We will make sure that each and every South African is given shelter for his or her own family. We in the ANC are committed to the people’s contract of ensuring that we eradicate poverty and create employment. I thank you.
Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, there are a number of pressing issues to attend to and a lot more work has to be done by the department if inroads are to be made in addressing the housing problems in South Africa. The Minister mentioned the eradication of informal settlements in her speech to the Senate. This is a mammoth task that will require an enormous amount of work if they are to address it along with the backlogs. We hope that there are adequate funds available and that specific timeframes are set. The IFP, however, supports this Vote.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Deputy Chair, I just want to get clarity before we adopt the Vote. Could the hon Mzizi clarify for us whether we still have a senate in this democratic Government? [Laughter.]
Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, having come from the old school, this was just an error - a slip of the tongue. [Laughter.]
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 30 - Land Affairs - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 31 - Minerals and Energy - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 32 - Trade and Industry - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 33 - Transport - put.
Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance and African National Congress.
Declarations of vote: Mr A WATSON: Thank you, hon Chair. My colleague in the National Assembly, the hon Stuart Farrow, has already alluded to the reasoning behind our objecting to this particular Vote.
As was also the case with other Votes in terms of which we made declarations in regard to our objections, it would serve no purpose to repeat our fundamental objections in each case; hence, our objections are noted. However, as far as transport is concerned, we do, however, wish to expand somewhat in reference to the state of our provincial roads.
In virtually all the provinces, most of our roads, other than the toll roads, are in a terrible state of disrepair, and the stock answer is, of course, that we simply do not have enough money for roads. What is of paramount concern, however, is the ultimate distribution and application of the road levy, which is part of the price of motor fuel. Do the hon members realise that R1,11 of every litre of petrol and 95 cents of every litre of diesel is channelled back to Government in the form of a road levy?
The principle is sound. The more you drive, the bigger your share in the upkeep of roads. Also, whilst bigger vehicles cause more deterioration to roads, so do they also use more fuel and consequently contribute more. The mystery is, however, what ultimately happens to your daily contribution, kilometre by kilometre?
I shall tell you. The levies are taken up in the fiscus and are ultimately redistributed to provinces on an equitable basis, but that is where tub runs dry. Provinces can use their respective shares in any way they wish, and they obviously do so to make their books balance. The end result is that levies, supposedly paid for road maintenance, could be used for education and health, and in any other department where a fair share will probably disappear in some corrupt way or another.
The DA, therefore, feels that the road levies should be distributed in proportion to kilometres of roads and established road usage in provinces, and that the funds so collected should be totally dedicated to road maintenance. We feel that this, together with other funds currently budgeted and budgeted annually, will form the only viable base from which to fund proper road maintenance. The present system is tantamount to defrauding motorists and transporters, and we call on the Government and the Minister, in particular, to rectify the situation. The DA therefore objects to this Vote.
Mr R J TAU: Hon Chair, we in the ANC have said that during this financial year our job is to ensure that we reduce the poverty levels that continue to bedevil our society, especially amongst those in the poor rural areas and, in particular, women. Our job is to improve the performance of our transport system in order to improve economic activity, thus creating jobs and growing our economy.
Acknowledging the bad state of our roads, the hon Minister Jeff Radebe had this to say during the budget debate in the NCOP on 11 May 2004:
Such is the poor state of maintenance of many of our roads that I must indicate to this House that, together with the provinces and Sanral, we will consider reclassifying certain strategic roads from provincial to national if this is the only way to ensure the allocation of sufficient funds for upgrade and maintenance work.
Whether the DA was fast asleep or fantasising about something else at that time, we do not know. Anybody who stands up to oppose this Budget Vote is, in fact, opposing the betterment of the lives of our people. We in the ANC will not stand by and watch, given the fact that we have been given an overwhelming majority to ensure that we close the second economy that our President has alluded to. We will not subject our people to poverty and bad roads that endanger their lives. Ours is a mandate given by the poor to better their living conditions, and so we shall not apologise.
May those who have resolved to consistently lie to our people, continue to subject themselves to the prophecy of doom and hell. Some friendly advice for them is that South Africa belongs to all those who live in it, black and white, and not only those who are privileged will be able to use our roads. In fact, our budget is to ensure that our road infrastructure is developed in such a way that it will benefit even those who do not have the means to use that particular infrastructure. Also, infrastructure development is going to be labour intensive so as to benefit our people economically. So, I declare that this Vote be seen as a genuine instrument that will benefit the lives of our people. Thank you. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Alliance and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Vote No 34 - Water Affairs and Forestry - put.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Question put: That the Schedule be agreed to.
Schedule agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF APPROPRIATION BILL AND OF REPORT THEREON
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, hon members, the seriousness of the matter before us needs to be taken into account. We are voting for the current fiscal year, for the resources to be spent by all of national and provincial Governments effectively, and because of the earnestness of this matter, I am sure that all members in their committees have applied their minds thoroughly to this, and I therefore move. Thank you. [Applause.] Mr T S RALANE: Chairperson, Ministers, I congratulate you on your appointments to your new positions. While we adopt the estimates allocated to each Budget Vote today, our work as members of the NCOP in relation to these appropriations does not end here. Whilst the legislative powers of the national Parliament and the provincial legislatures are important for the approval of budget legislation, the oversight powers of the NCOP and provincial legislatures are equally pivotal, especially with regard to the monitoring and evaluation of the performance of national and provincial departments.
Our Constitution recognises that Parliament and the legislatures have a critical role to play in overseeing better performance in the delivery of services. Therefore, the challenges facing members of Parliament and the provincial legislatures are to improve the capacity of select and standing committees to hold departments to account for their performance, using budget documents, strategic plans and annual reports. Annual reports allow Parliament to evaluate the performance of a department after the end of the financial year, whilst during the year quarterly reports allow Parliament to monitor performance during the financial year. The National Treasury informed the finance committees of Parliament during their recent briefing that, with references to conditional grants to provinces, national departments did not comply fully with the Division of Revenue Act in the financial year ending March 2003. Moreover, the Auditor- General reported for the same financial year that their audit could not be satisfied that the transfer payments were utilised as stipulated in the Division of Revenue Act. It is under these circumstances that we wrote to eight national departments in June this year and raised a total of 42 questions in relation to provincial conditional grants in the previous and current financial years. Members would be pleased to know that we have received two detailed responses and six acknowledgements already. Much of the oversight work in relation to provincial conditional grants is ongoing, and I hope that the incoming chairpersons of the select committees, both of finance and other committees, will continue with follow-up investigations. We urge the House to vote in favour of the Appropriation Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, this was such a long and intense debate. [Laughter.] There were so many speakers in the debate that I lost track of some. I would like to congratulate Mr Tutu Ralane on his reappointment as the Chair of the Joint Budget Committee, and I thank the members for their support. [Applause.]
Mr A WATSON: Chair, on a point of information, we did agree that the DA member of that committee would also have two minutes in which to speak. I do not know why that did not happen. We had a meeting yesterday and, in the absence of our Whip, I discussed it with the Chief Whip and with Mr Sulliman, and I really want to know what has happened?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Okay, Mr Watson, we need to learn to talk to each other. I mean, the Chief Whip is in the House, and you people had a speakers’ list before we got into the House that could have been sorted out. Really, to ask the Chair now is unfair. I do not know what to say to you, but the debate is closed now. [Applause.] Would the two of you please resolve the issue? The Minister has responded to the debate already. Chief Whip, do you want to say something in this regard?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: Hon Chair, we did have consultation … [Interjections.] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): The hon member is answering your question.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: We did have consultations with the relevant party as far as three weeks back in relation to the passage of this Appropriation Bill, and we were in consultation up until yesterday afternoon. We did circulate the speakers’ list for comment. There was no comment. I personally tried to phone the leader of the opposition in the name of the hon D A Watson, but could not get a response. I took it that that silence meant acceptance of the draft speakers’ list, and I move that we proceed.
Debate concluded.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): We proceed with the next order of the day. The matter is closed.
Mr A WATSON: On a point of order, please, before we proceed: Since the discussion that took place yesterday was disregarded, may I please get clarity if I was phoned during my lunchtime? I apologise that I also eat like most people. [Interjections.] I only got a note from the Chief Whip when I came into the House, but we did have a very long discussion yesterday. Also, on the next item, the Taxation Bill, it was agreed that my member would speak for two minutes. May I have clarity before you start and close the debate?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Mr Watson, the matter is disposed of. You may discuss that with the Chief Whip. Let us proceed with the next order of the day.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF TAXATION LAWS AMENDMENT BILL AND OF REPORT THEREON
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, I am trying to work out whether to start in the middle of the speech or just to say that I move. I think that I shall opt for the latter. [Applause.]
Mr E M SOGONI: Chairperson, should I follow in the footsteps of the Minister? The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Nobody has said that.
Mr E M SOGONI: Chairperson, congratulations to the comrade Ministers on their appointments for this new term. Today marks the last day of June, the historical month of the youth and the fourth day after the anniversary of the Freedom Charter. I also wish to extend a belated happy birthday wish to our President.
All the parties who attended the meeting - Mr Watson, I am sure, will be happy to hear that - unanimously adopted the Taxation Laws Amendment Bill. The law we are amending today was first passed in 1949, and the same Act of 1949 has been amended over the years. There is a debate of whether Parliament should not be looking at enacting a new Taxation Bill every year. Over the past decade of freedom the South African economy has benefited tremendously from tax policy reforms as a result of efficient revenue collections, thus enabling the democratic Government to grant tax relief of over R72 billion to the people of this country. As such, tax relief contributed to rising household consumption expenditure, thus boosting economic development and promoting small businesses. For the 2004 financial year, personal income tax relief of R4 billion will be put back into people’s pockets, thus translating to a real disposable income and encouraging a culture of saving. This means that the income tax rebate is being raised to R32 000 for citizens under the age of 65 years and R50 000 for those citizens of 65 years and above, thus pushing back the frontiers of poverty. Secondly, the transfer duty threshold has been raised to R150 000 to encourage acquisition of property by low- and middle-income groups. This will translate to a saving of about R500 for all properties bought henceforth. Thirdly, to encourage economic empowerment, the Treasury proposes to table legislation to allow long-term tax-free shares for employees to be kept at certain amounts. That is subject to negotiations and employers need to conform to provided restrictions to prevent short- term sales of shares by the employees. This proposal is not for the current financial year, but for next year. Fourthly, the first economy will also benefit from detailed proposals to restructure taxation of mineral rights holders to reduce the cost of doing business in our country, thus simplifying and addressing double taxation in some cases.
Other areas to benefit include pension fund taxes. In that area Treasury is correcting duplication between SARS and FSB. This means that powers will now be delegated to FSB to deal with that function. The other areas that will benefit are biofuels and toll roads. With regard to toll roads, legislation was passed in 2003 converting Sanral to a tax-free entity, retrospectively with effect from 1998. That resulted in unintended losses of deduction for list premiums and list hold improvements made by concessionaires, so this Bill will also rectify these.
Finally, 9 July 2004 will be the last day on which to submit tax returns. We would like to implore our public representatives to lead by example by submitting their tax returns in time this year. Guided by the above principle, we believe this Taxation Bill is contributing to a people’s contract to create work and fight poverty and bridge the gap between the first and the second economies. Ngiyabonga. [I thank you.] [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution. CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE ON AGREEMENT BETWEEN GOVERNMENT OF REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND GOVERNMENT OF KINGDOM OF SWAZILAND FOR AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME
Mr D J BOTHA: Deputy Chair, the select committee considered this Bill very carefully. The purpose of this agreement is twofold: Firstly, it provides for the avoidance of double taxation and, secondly, it puts in place mechanisms for an exchange of information between the tax authorities of the two countries.
This agreement, concluded between the Republic of South Africa and the Kingdom of Swaziland, adheres to the key requirements of the Organisation of Economic Co-Operation and Development. This organisation consists of 29 mainly industrialised member countries. South Africa is not a member of the OECD. The state law advisers of the Departments of Foreign Affairs and Justice have been consulted on this agreement, and they have agreed to it. The Select Committee on Finance recommended that this House adopt this agreement. I thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): That concludes the debate. I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of Section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether the delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are you all present? Thank you.
In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote, if they so wish. Is there any province that wishes to do so? There is none. We shall now proceed to vote on the question. I shall do this in an alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour or against, or whether they abstain. The Eastern Cape?
Ms B N DLULANE: We vote in favour.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Free State?
Mr T RALANE: We vote in favour.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Gauteng?
Mr S SHICEKA: We support, Chair.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mrs M N OLIPHANT: I KZN iyayixhasa Sihlalo. [KZN supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: We support.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Mpumalanga?
Ms M P THEMBA: Mpumalanga supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Northern Cape?
Mr M A SULIMAN: Ke ya rona. [We support.] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): North West?
Rev P MOATSHE: Ke ya rona. [We support.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Western Cape?
Ms N D NTWANAMBI: We vote in favour.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): All nine provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF AGREEMENT ESTABLISHING INTERNATIONAL ORGANISATION OF VINE AND WINE AND OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON LAND AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS THEREON
Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, hon Ministers and hon members of this House, this is the statement by the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on the reaccession to the International Organisation of Vine and Wine, the OIV: The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs supports and approves without reservation South Africa’s accession to the new treaty of the OIV, signed in April 2001. The committee believes that ratifying the treaty will benefit South Africa enormously. I will show why the committee has made this decision and provide reasons why South Africa should become party to the 2001 OIV treaty.
South Africa is one of the top producers and exporters of wine. The wine industry contributes about R15,5 million to the annual GDP of the country. With its roots firmly embedded in the Western Cape, an estimated 60% of the industry’s activities have an impact on the region’s economy. The industry has also provided a number of employment opportunities, directly and indirectly. In the Western Cape, particularly, a number of job opportunities were created. These were tourism related and linked to the wine industry. A number of local and international tourists regularly come to view wine routes in the province.
It is important for South Africa to boost this industry so that more jobs will be created. Being part of this international organisation that currently include all major countries producing wine, except Canada and the United States of America, South Africa will have the opportunity to share information and co-operate with countries that have done well in the industry. Our participation in the OIV will definitely increase the production of wine and create a greater export orientation in the South African wine industry.
The International Organisation of Vine and Wine serves as international reference point for wine and vine issues, including scientific research, production methods, education and economic and trade issues. Resolutions taken by the OIV can have an important influence on world trade. South Africa does not need to be left out in discussions in the OIV that might have an impact on its wine trade and thus affect its economy.
Why the new treaty? The OIV was established in 1924. The 1924 OIV treaty currently regulates the OIV. South Africa has been a member of the old Organisation of Vine and Wine since 1963. The old OIV has had to be reviewed to accommodate the interests of other members who were sidelined in its administration and in the decision-making process. The old OIV was dominated by French interests, and was very Eurocentric in dealing with issues. That was to our disadvantage, and to the disadvantage of other countries outside European borders.
The working language was predominantly French, meaning that all official documents were written in French. For South Africa this meant that we had to get someone to translate the documents into English. We might also have been left behind in some important discussion because of the language barrier.
The main aims of the OIV are to establish international norms and standards on vine and wine products; to set guidelines on new wine-making practices and techniques; product definition and labelling; food safety principles and harmonising standards on vine and wine products; to facilitate trade and to promote collaboration and sharing of scientific research. The main objective of the OIV, which is linked to its aims, is to inform its members of measures taken on vine and wine where concerns of producers, consumers and other players are taken into consideration.
The benefits of South Africa being a member of the 2001 OIV treaty are that it will help to complement South Africa’s research capacity, as it will provide a platform for exchange of information for researchers; it will provide South Africa with the ability to monitor relevant international technical, regulatory and trade issues regarding wine; and it will provide South Africa with a forum to participate directly in the formulation of resolutions regarding wine and vine production and trade.
Full participation by South Africa in the OIV will help to ensure that our domestic practices are aligned with international recommendations where we deem this to be appropriate.
In conclusion, based on the benefits that South Africa will enjoy if it continues its membership of the OIV, and the disadvantages it will suffer or opportunities it will miss if it forfeits its membership, the committee agreed that South Africa should rectify the 2001 OIV treaty and become a full member of the new OIV. It is very important that South Africa participates in the standard setting of wine and vine products to guard our own interests. In these matters, it is important that the South African Government should consult and involve the industry in all stages.
A strong partnership with the industry is required to promote trade, deal with food issues and create sustainable development. As a committee we commend the role played by the Ministry of Agriculture to ensure that the industry was part of the whole process. As a committee we recommend that South Africa should sign this agreement as a matter of urgency so that it can start to enjoy benefits from it, and not be left behind - unaware of the developments happening globally in the wine industry. We support this treaty. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Order! The hon Minister has been listening very carefully. However, there are other people in this House who have misinterpreted what the Reverend has said. The Reverend did not say, “wine and dine”. He said: “wine and vine”. I think that is an agreement you will be signing! [Laughter.]
That concludes the debate. I shall now put the question. The question is that the report should be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ vote. They are all present. In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first accord provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote, if they so wish. There is none.
We shall then proceed to voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour or against, or whether they abstain. Eastern Cape?
Ms B N DLULANE: Siyavuma. [We agree.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Free State?
Mr T RALANE: Ke ya rona. [We support.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Gauteng?
Mr S SHICEKA: We agree.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mrs M N OLIPHANT: Siyahambisana Sihlalo. [We are in agreement.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Re sepelesana le yona. [We are in agreement.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Mpumalanga?
Ms M P THEMBA: Siyayisekela sihlalo. [We support.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Northern Cape?
Mr M A SULIMAN: Siyavuma. [We support.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): North West? Rev P MOATSHE: Re ya e amogela. [We support.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Western Cape?
Mr N MACK: We support fully, no irritations and objections.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Order! All provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
OVERSIGHT VISIT TO QAUKENI LOCAL MUNICIPALITY
(Consideration of Report of Select Committee thereon)
Mr S SHICEKA: Chairperson, from 19 to 22 June 2004 the Select Committee on Local Government and Administration visited the Qaukeni local municipality. It was in response to the request by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Traditional Affairs for the continuation of the intervention in that municipality for a period of three months.
The department believed that progress was made in the following areas: one, reviewing the budget in terms of the IDP; two, building the administration of the council and IT systems; three, improving the financial and management systems.
The findings of the committee were that, one, in that council there was no organogram for administration; two, the budgeting process was done by consultants - there was no capacity whatsoever to do budgeting in that council; three, staff members were being abused by managers, being assaulted - and this with impunity - and were also assaulting each other; four, there were no computers available in that administration; five, there was embezzlement of funds in that council; six, the tendering process was abused as much by officials as councillors; seven, there was no co- operation by management and staff with the administrator and the intervention team. The list is endless.
The recommendations of the committee are tabled in the ATC. They are there. However, in terms of the feedback we got from that visit, the premier, the MEC, the district executive mayor, workers, businesses, community-based organisations and ward committees were very happy with the visit. They said that I must say to the NCOP: “Halala, NCOP, halala!”
Their budget was approved on 25 June and everybody was there, with the exception of five councillors who have taken the council, the national Government, as well as the Eastern Cape government to court. The suspension of that council is being lifted gradually.
I want to thank the chair of the council and her deputy for their guidance and stewardship. I also want to thank the Chair of Chairs, her deputy and the Chief Whip for their unwavering support. I want to thank the dynamic team, our committee, for their insightful input and contribution wherever they are, because over 80% of the members of this committee, including myself, are new. I also want to thank my caring mother and my children for their understanding. We dare not fail our people and betray their trust.
I want to propose that we adopt the report, as outlined. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present?
In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote, if they so wish. We shall now proceed to voting on the question. I shall do so in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour of or against, or whether they or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Ms B N DLULANE: Siyayi vuma. [We agree.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Free State?
Mr T S RALANE: Ha seketela. [We support.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng?
Mr S SHICEKA: We agree.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?
Mrs M N OLIPHANT: Siyayivuma, Sihlalo. [We agree, Chairperson.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Re a e amogela. [We accept.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?
Ms M P THEMBA: Re tsamaisana le yona. [We go along with it.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Northern Cape?
Mr M A SULLIMAN: Steun. [Accept.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: Ke ya rona. [It is ours.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Western Cape?
Ms N NTWANAMBi: Sihamba nayo, kakuhle, Sihlalo. [We happily go along with it, Chairperson.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted. [Applause.]
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: As we conclude, may I take this opportunity to thank the hon Minister of Finance, Mr Trevor Manuel, and the hon Minister of Agriculture and Land Affairs for their courtesy visit to the National Council of Provinces. We welcome your visit, hon Ministers.
May I also take this opportunity to bid farewell to one of our members in the Council, Ms Ndalane, who will be going back to the province. She will be resigning as from tomorrow. We wish her well going back home. We hope that she will do all she can for her father who is not well. We hope and wish her all the best in ensuring that she takes care of her father.
May I also say to hon members as we go on leave that you know that you did not have any leave after the elections. Can you take the two weeks and treat yourselves to the best? [Applause.] [Interjections.] Well, hon Ministers, most unfortunately we have to be here to continue doing the work. I hope that during the next two weeks all of us will do our constituency work and come back to report to the House on the issues that we have discovered while we were doing our constituency work. I want to say: Go well, take care and arrive alive. Thank you very much. The House is adjourned. [Applause.]
The Council adjourned at 15:04. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- Bills passed by Houses - to be submitted to President for assent
(1) Bills passed by National Council of Provinces on 30 June 2004:
(i) Appropriation Bill [B 3 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec
77)
(ii) Taxation Laws Amendment Bill [B 8 - 2004] (National
Assembly - sec 77)
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- The Minister for Safety and Security
Draft Directions by the National Commissioner of the South African
Police Service, in terms of section 34(3)(c) of the Prevention and
Combating of Corrupt Activities Act, 2004 (Act No 12 of 2004). 2. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry
Government Notice No 732 published in Government Gazette No 26295,
dated 30 April 2004: Request for written comments are invited from the
public on the Draft Water Services Amendment Bill and Explanatory
Memorandum.