National Council of Provinces - 03 March 2004



The Council met at 14:02.

The Deputy Chairperson of Committees took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.



                         (Draft Resolution)

Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, ek sal sonder kennisgewing voorstel:

Dat die Raad -

(1) kennis neem -

   (a)  dat 'n nuwe naam in die  Suid-Afrikaanse  boek  van  hedendaagse
       helde gevoeg word by dié van Nelson Mandela, F W de Klerk, Chris
       Barnard, die hartpionier, Desmond Tutu, Gary Player en Ernie Els
       - dit is dié van ons eie Hollywoodster en wenner van die  Oscar-
       toekenning vir die beste aktrise vir haar vertolking in die film
       Monster; en

   (b)  van die meisie van Benoni se  prestasie  in  die  lig  van  haar
       agtergrond - dit het opoffering en deursettingsvermoë  gekos  om
       dié hoogtes te bereik;

(2) die hoop uitspreek dat sy, soos die ander ikone van Suid-Afrika, as inspirasie sal dien omdat hulle bewys het “what man’s mind can conceive and he or she can believe in, can be achieved”; en

(3) Charlize Theron salueer. (Translation of Afrikaans motion follows.)

[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes -

   (a)  that in the South African book of modern-day heroes, a new  name
       has been added to those of Nelson Mandela, F W de  Klerk,  Chris
       Barnard, the heart pioneer, Desmond Tutu, Gary Player and  Ernie
       Els - it is that of our own Hollywood star  and  winner  of  the
       Oscar award for best actress for her  performance  in  the  film
       Monster; and

   (b)  the achievement of the girl from Benoni  in  the  light  of  her
       background - it took sacrifice and perseverance to  reach  these

(2) expresses the hope that, like the other icons of South Africa, she will be an inspiration because they have proved that ``what man’s mind can conceive and he or she can believe in, can be achieved’’; and

(3) salutes Charlize Theron.]

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Hon Chair, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) acknowledges the untold suffering to generations of black people caused by the Natives Land Act of 1913;

(2) notes that through this and other racist laws, millions of our people were uprooted from their land, had their homes bulldozed and their dignity destroyed;

(3) recognises the steps that have been taken by the ANC since 1994 in reversing racial land dispossessions and the measures it has taken to ameliorate the pain, grief, trauma and despair occasioned by years of forced removals;

(4) expresses its joy at the R18,7 million land claim settlement received by 688 Blikkies/Keidebees land claimants from the Commission on Restitution of Land Rights in Upington recently;

(5) notes that over 20 000 households have been given back their land in the Northern Cape; and

(6) commends the Northern Cape government for the commitment it has shown in using land to fight unemployment, poverty and underdevelopment.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


                         (Draft Resolution)

Rev M CHABAKU: Chair, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) expresses its deep horror and shock at the loss of over 200 innocent Shiite Muslims who were bombed in Pakistan and Iraq for purely callous political motives;

(2) abhors all forms of violence and grieves with all the bereaved families of those who met this painful death as they gathered to offer their prayers peacefully and humbly to our Creator God, also called Allah;

(3) believes that violence begets counter-violence, hardens hearts and attitudes in the process and never redresses any loss or hurt - we in the new South Africa averted similar bloodbaths because we followed the Setswana idiom that says “Ntwa-kgolo ke ya molomo”, which means that the biggest and most effective war is through dialogue; and

(4) expresses its sorrow and concern to the embassies of Iraq and Pakistan, and our solidarity with all the people of God as we seek to turn enemies into friends.

These are God’s people too. They are part of us.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


Mr Z S KOLWENI: Chairperson, I rise to move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes that since 1994 South Africa has consistently promoted peace, stability and security in Africa and the rest of the world;

(2) further notes that our country has actively supported the United Nations and sought to strengthen its multilateral processes and mandate, including implementing UN Security Council Resolutions on the combating of terrorism, reform of peace support operations and upholding the UN Charter;

(3) acknowledges the fact that South Africa has made a number of interventions that have generally contributed to peace and stability in several African countries and beyond, including Burundi, the DRC and Rwanda; and

(4) reaffirms its support for the efforts of the South African Government to help resolve conflicts in Africa to enhance durable peace and sustainable development.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


                         (Draft Resolution)

Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I hereby move a motion without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes with pride that the most recent figures available regarding gender transformation in the public service reveal that Government has managed to break through an artificial ceiling that very few countries and organisations, both in the private and public sector have thus far achieved;

(2) further notes that women now constitute 24% of all managerial positions in the public service, compared with the 21% in the previous year - the approximately 350 women senior managers, spread across all managerial ranks, including those of Director- General and Head of Department, are a far cry from the handful of women managers that we found in 1994;

(3) acknowledges that when the ANC came to power, the prevailing situation was still one of women being excluded from the home- owner allowance scheme, unless their husbands were permanently medically unfit for remunerative employment;

(4) further acknowledges that women also contributed differently to the Government Service Pension Fund, increasing their material vulnerability in old age, and that the basis for taxation of women was also different;

(5) recognises that -

     (a)     this, with the exception of the  retirement  age,  has  now
          all changed to ensure parity;

     (b)     certain progressive measures have been  introduced  in  the
          new leave dispensation  that  move  away  from  casting  women
          exclusively in the care-giving role; and

     (c)     the burden in respect of childbearing is  still  placed  on
          the  female  employee,  while  provision  has  been  made  for
          paternal leave; and

(6) believes that the progress that we have made is certainly cause for celebration, but that it should not blind us to the remaining challenges, and that we should continue to advance to the ultimate goal of achieving full representivity of women at all levels of society and certainly also in the most senior ranks of the public service.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes with concern that South Africa has now achieved the dubious status of being the dagga/cannabis production capital of Africa, to add to our status as the hijacking, murder and Aids capital of the world;

(2) notes that more people are murdered each day in South Africa than in a full year in Scandinavia - all achievements of 10 years of ANC rule;

(3) calls upon the voters of South Africa to censure the ANC at the polls and vote for a value-based political party like the ACDP that will bring hope to the nation.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Is there an objection? [Interjections.] In the light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.


Mr M J MAHLANGU: Chairperson and hon members, let me, right from the onset, point out that as we are gathered here today, we reflect on the work of the Council in these past five years. I know that I am pre- empting a discussion that will take place tomorrow, but it is no exception that we should also reflect on the work of the Working Group on the African Union.

Members will recall that several reports were tabled in this House. These reports were meant to inform members about progress that has been achieved up until now and the challenges that face all of us as we prepare for the inauguration of the Pan-African Parliament.

Allow me to focus my statement on the Eleventh Report which is currently before the House. Members will recall that in the 10th Report, we recommended that five members be elected to represent the South African Parliament in the Pan-African Parliament. This will be done in terms of article 4(2) of the protocol. It provides that each member state shall be represented in the PAP by five parliamentarians, and at least one of these members shall be a woman.

We have to congratulate ourselves on the fact that we have surpassed the bare minimum requirements in terms of the protocol by electing three women out of the five South African delegates. Once more, this is an indication that we are on course in ensuring that women play a meaningful role in decision-making on the African continent.

Allow me to read out the names of those people who will be representing us at this Parliament just to remind some members of who they are. I am constantly being asked which Mahlangu has been elected to the PAP. People are not sure and most papers quote Dorothy Mahlangu as the person who is going to go to the PAP. The names of those who are going to PAP are: Dr Frene Ginwala, the Speaker of the National Assembly; Mrs M A A Njobe, a member of the ANC in the NA; Mr M J Mahlangu, a permanent delegate of the NCOP; Dr B L Geldenhuys, a New NP member in the NA, and Prof H Ngubane, a member of the IFP in the NA.

The names have been submitted to the AU Commission. The Commission has also reported that they have received names from 23 parliaments. This is an indication that, as a continent, we are on course in ensuring that African issues are discussed on a common platform by all representatives of the African people.

We can confirm that the inaugural session will take place on 18 March 2004 in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia. This session will be presided over by the current Chairperson of the African Union, President Chissano of Mozambique. Members of the PAP will take an oath of office and then elect their presiding officers. This will be followed by the first session scheduled for 19 to 20 March 2004. The rules of PAP will be adopted in terms of article 11(8) of the protocol, and committees of the PAP, in terms of article 12(13) of the protocol, will be established.

Some of the committees which will have to be established as a matter of urgency are the rules committee, budget committee and credentials committee. Some of the office bearers who will be elected include the president and his or her five vice presidents, in terms of article 12(3) of the protocol. The challenge for the newly formed PAP will be to ensure that among the five office bearers we have a fair share of representivity in terms of gender.

As we all know, mechanisms have been put in place to ensure that the regions of Africa are represented amongst five presidents. Some mechanisms have also been proposed to ensure that among the five presidents, gender representivity is taken into account. I am confident that the PAP will rise to the challenge and include women among the five presidents.

Another issue I wish to report on is that the House still has to consider how to ensure that delegates sent to the PAP will be accountable to their parliament, especially South Africa. I am not sure how other parliaments will operate. In the last Report of the Working Group, we deliberated on the importance of ensuring that the PAP, AU and Nepad issues are given the necessary attention. It is therefore recommended that the next Parliament should establish a permanent committee, compared to an ad hoc committee, which will deal with issues emanating from these bodies. Such a committee could be a link between the delegates and the PAP.

This is to ensure that when members leave their parliaments, they have a certain mandate that they put on the table, and deliberate with an understanding of what our Parliament wants us to deliberate on. As we are debating issues today, we should try to get the feeling of both Houses and put these issues on the table at the PAP. The linkage between the members and House is very important.

In conclusion, allow me to remind members that one of the objectives of the PAP is to serve as a link between the people of Africa and their elected leaders at a continental level. Therefore, the success of the PAP will be measured by the degree to which it holds them accountable. No, not only that, but the PAP will have to ensure that at the heart of Africa’s development objectives lie the ultimate and overriding goal of human-centred development that ensures the overall wellbeing of the people through sustained improvement in their living standards. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their province’s vote. It seems as if all the provinces’ delegates are present.

In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote, if they so wish. There are none who wish to do so. We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province, and delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour of or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Ms B N DLULANE: Siyavumelana. [We support.]


Rev M CHABAKU: We are in favour.


Ms D M RAMODIKE: Gauteng votes in favour.


Mr H J BEKKER (KwaZulu Natal): KwaZulu Natal will support.


Mr M I MAKOELA: Re a e amogela. [We support.]


Ms M P THEMBA: In favour.


Mr M A SULLIMAN: Ke a rona. [We support.]


Mr Z S KOLWENI: We’re in support.


Mr C ACKERMANN: Ons steun. [We support.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: All nine provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted. [Applause.]

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                       PAN-AFRICAN PARLIAMENT

                      (Subject for Discussion)

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Deputy Chairperson of Committees, it is indeed an historic moment that we arrive at today, that we are actually debating the issue of the Pan-African Parliament before our colleagues proceed to the inaugural meeting of the Pan-African Parliament. There were three historic meetings of African members of parliament that paved the way for the establishment of the Pan-African Parliament. In November 2000 a first meeting of representatives from African parliaments took place in Pretoria to discuss the then draft protocol. In June 2002 a second meeting of African MPs took place in Cape Town just before the launch of the African Union at the Durban Summit. Opening that historic meeting in Cape Town, I said the following:

Parliaments are the direct expression of the will of the people. They are best placed to take up tasks that arise from the plans Africans have begun to shape.

Since the extraordinary summit at Surté we have witnessed a renewed energy in Africans, there is a renewed determination that the hopes and aspirations of historic leaders of Africans in Africa and the diaspora will be realised.

The Pan-African Congresses were the seed from which the Organisation of African Unity grew. And we are here to replant that seed in the African Union and the Pan-African Parliament. We are here indeed to make history.

As a result of this meeting, a steering committee was created to assist the AU Secretariat in planning for the creation of the Pan-African Parliament. The third meeting of parliamentarians took place in Cape Town during late June 2003. It received reports on ratifications and it urged parliaments to speed up this process.

In his opening address to the conference, Deputy President Zuma said the following:

Colleagues, the dream of a better organised and united Africa is a dream that Africans have dared to dream for decades. It is also this vision that had inspired the formation of the Organisation for African Unity, and last year the African Union.

I think we all agree that one of the most important instruments of the African Union is contained in the protocol calling for the establishment of a Pan-African Parliament.

This is so because a parliament in which the voices of all Africans are heard is a necessary tool, not only to deepen democracy but also to give expression to the aspirations of Africans everywhere.

The launch of a Pan-African Parliament will truly herald a new dawn for the peoples of Africa. It would, for the first time, at a continental level, give a voice to elected African representatives to monitor and hold accountable the leaders of our time.

So then what is the current situation? As we heard just a moment ago, the Pan-African Parliament is soon to have its inaugural meeting in Addis Ababa in Ethiopia. The Deputy Chairperson of the House, as a delegate to the Pan- African Parliament, has told this House of the most recent developments in this regard. Nevertheless, as has been indicated, there are a few points that need to be made with respect to this important and historic event.

Firstly, although the Parliament will develop into an institution with full legislative powers, initially it will only have consultative and advisory powers. Article 11 says that the parliament may examine, discuss or express an opinion on any matter, either on its own initiative or at the request of the Assembly of the African Union or other policy organs and make recommendations it may deem fit relating to, inter alia, matters pertaining to respect of human rights, the consolidation of democratic institutions, and the culture of democracy, as well as the promotion of good governance and the rule of law.

Secondly, article 12(3) of the protocol provides for the establishment of committees. We do not yet know what the focus of these committees will be, but I believe one focus has to be oversight of the operations of the African Union itself. The African Union potentially has 17 organs. In addition, there are seven specialised committees. There are 10 distinct topics listed as areas in which the Executive Council of Foreign Ministers will be able to deliberate. If you add the portfolio areas of focus for the Commission of the African Union, it could be difficult for committees of the Pan-African Parliament to be structured in a fit manner to monitor and oversee all the activities of the African Union. This is one of the challenges that face our colleagues.

Thirdly, there is much room for improvement in the number of women involved in the highest decision-making roles in the African Union. Women hardly feature in some key bodies of the African Union. For example, no woman is a head of state in Africa, and therefore there is no woman on the highest structure of the African Union, the Assembly. There are only two or three women Foreign Affairs Ministers on the continent. There is a very small female presence in the very important Executive Council, which processes all matters and makes recommendations to the Assembly, although I must add that our own Minister of Foreign Affairs is a powerful presence there.

However, we have indeed made history in Africa by appointing five women out of the 10 commissioners of the African Union, the commissioners who will drive policy implementation. A woman commissioner, Mrs Julia Joiner, is responsible for the Pan-African Parliament.

In the immediate future we have as the most important task the inauguration of the Parliament, so that the people of Africa have an institution that ensures that they are full participants in African political, social and economic development.

We have set an example here in South Africa for the African continent. We have built a new economy. We have begun to shape a new society. We have built a new democratic Parliament and we have established a new constitutional system of governance. Our first 10 years of freedom have been 10 years of growing unity in action; 10 years of peace and stability; 10 years of expanding opportunities to build a better life for all.

We have brought water and electricity to millions of households, built houses accommodating millions of South Africans; opened up access to quality education, remove discrimination in access to professions, created the basis for the economy to become more productive and globally competitive, and placed South Africa in a strategic position to deal with international affairs. The globe is now open to our sportsmen and women, to our actors and actresses - and we have won the Oscar for best actress - to businessmen and women, to musicians, to academics, to politicians and to social activists. We are now able as a people to partner humanity in building a better South Africa, a better Africa and a better world. Moreover, our gentle revolution has been matched by a renaissance of the South African spirit.

We hope that this renaissance will be a driving force in the establishment of the Pan-African Parliament. The issues confronting the Parliament will involve much more than good intentions and positive aspirations for Africa. There have been troubling signs of an inadequate practical expression of intent. Up to now not all of the AU member states have completed the procedures for membership of the Pan-African Parliament. The reasons for nonaffiliation remain obscure. It is worrying that the Parliament will first sit without the representation of all African countries. The African Union Commission should address, as a matter of urgency, the full participation of all AU members in the Pan-African Parliament.

Once established, the Pan-African Parliament, which is set to sit for short periods twice a year, must ensure it acts quickly to catch up with the African Union. The African Union has been in full swing since its launch in

  1. Many of its structures have been established and a number of initiatives are under way. The elected representatives of the people of Africa must popularise these developments and make them known to our people and to the world.

Furthermore, our Parliament must pursue the peer review process and developments linked to it, and the Pan-African Parliament should take an interest in the reasons for the reluctance of most African member states to allow themselves to be peer reviewed.

Many parliaments on our continent often find it difficult to execute their mandate for the people, owing to the lack of resources. The Pan-African Parliament must be provided with sufficient resources for research, with legal advice and other support services if it is to succeed.

Our representatives will have to investigate all the policy issues relevant to speeding up African unity. Economic integration and a common platform for planning African development will have to be pursued. There has been much progress on the continent, particularly in the economic domain. The Parliament must focus on supporting transparency, good governance and democracy in all AU institutions and policy practices. More than this, we must tackle the challenge of creating conditions of peace and human security on our continent.

The inaugural session of the Pan-African Parliament will be an important beginning. Hopefully the Pan-African Parliament will be as open as our Parliament here in South Africa. Hopefully, the ordinary citizens of our hosts for the inaugural session will be able to attend the first meeting and, certainly, this access will continue when South Africa is granted the honour of hosting the Parliament.

We believe South Africa’s offer to host should receive strong support. It will be a good decision to locate the parliament in a country that all Africa supported in its fight for democracy. Locating the Parliament here will make the struggle for the total emancipation of Africa complete.

South Africa is committed to supporting the development of the Parliament into a viable and sustainable expression of Africa’s commitment to democracy.

We urge the AU Assembly to decide on the venue, so that the Parliament gets fully up and running. It is clear that much remains to be done on the continent. The main message we hand to the South African representatives is that they must ensure that the structures and rules that govern the Parliament serve the objective of ensuring that the institution is active in pursuing the development and progress of Africa and her people. In conclusion, we congratulate Speaker Ginwala on the leading role she has played in steering the process of establishing the Parliament. She is to be commended for her exemplary leadership. We wish our delegation well and look forward to evaluating the impact and work of the Parliament on African progress and development. Thank you, Deputy Chairperson. [Applause.]

Ms C BOTHA: Thank you, Chairperson. We have probably had more speeches in this House on the African Union and its component bodies than we have had on the relationship between the National Council of Provinces and the nine provinces.

This is perhaps not so surprising as one views the complete change of perspective on South Africa and its position, relative to the rest of the world, which has taken place in the past 10 years. From an isolated and besieged country under racist National Party rule, confined by sanctions to illegal trade, exchanging guns for oil, we have moved under ANC rule to a country which is without a doubt a major player in Africa. Certainly, South Africa is carving its way into the world governance structures in a noticeable and often admirable way. For today I will not dwell on the disconcerting exceptions reflected in its stance on Zimbabwe and Haiti.

It has driven the establishment of the African Union and, latterly, the Pan- African Parliament in a remarkable fashion. The Speaker of the National Assembly has played a major role in this effort, and will probably be awarded by appointment to a very important position when she heads for Addis Ababa later this month.

The South African delegation distinguishes itself by its inclusion of three women, but Parliament must carry the shame for having left out of this group the hon Colin Eglin who is arguably its most distinguished parliamentarian and the personification of democratic values. [Interjections.]

According to its own rules, the representation of the Pan-African Parliament shall reflect the diversity of political opinions in each national parliament or other deliberative organ. This is certainly not the case with our delegation. The short-sightedness of this petty exclusion will still come to haunt our Parliament. Anyone who worked with Colin during the Constitution-writing phase of Parliament, such as the hon Surty, would be hard-pressed not to agree with me. However, the final decision rests with the certification committee to whom the whole matter has been referred.

The first sitting of the Pan-African Parliament comes at a time when our own Parliament is concluding its five-year term. Fourteen countries in Africa are going to the polls this year. They include, besides ourselves, Niger, Guinea Bissau, Malawi, Ghana, Mozambique, Equatorial Guinea, Algeria, Mauritius, Botswana, Tunisia, Namibia and the Sudan.

As the members of the PAP must be duly elected representatives of their own country, the five South African members who will meet on the 18th will have a very short tenure, and it is possible that none of them will be back after March. On the other hand, some members from other countries will be at the beginning of a five-year term. This will present quite a managerial headache in future. Only a very firm secretarial arrangement will ensure the smooth flow of activities as membership continues to change.

One of the most challenging aspects of the African Union process is the enormous regional differences which underlie every issue and which will certainly impact on the functioning of the PAP. This is no different from the immense diversity of other supraregional structures which have, nevertheless, been welded into power blocs, such as the formidable European Union, and serves as a handy model for our own union, both as regards advantages and pitfalls.

South Africa has a major role to play in the African Parliament. It is a continental giant, and must lead by example on issues such as national identity, minorities, religious differences, corruption and poverty. Most importantly, it must lead on real democracy which, by its very definition, speaks for all the people, not only for some.

South Africa deserves no less, and this is what our delegation should champion in the Pan-African Parliament. Thank you. [Applause.]

Ms J L KGOALI: Hon Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, colleagues, comrades and everyone who is present here, today as the launch of the Pan-African Parliament draws closer, we say once more, the time for Africa has come. In its strategies and tactics, the ANC departed from the premise that South Africa is an African country. Accordingly, our approach to the continent is underpinned by our commitment to, and an active promotion of, the African Renaissance. This approach is informed by the belief that deepening and consolidating the national democratic revolution is not only a matter relating to what we do inside the country, but also, equally, a matter relating to our position and the relationships we develop in the international arena.

The launch of the Pan-African Parliament signals the beginning of the new. The dream of a better, organised and united Africa is a dream that Africans have dared to dream for decades. It is the same vision that led to the formation of the Organisation for African Unity, the African Union and now the Pan-African Parliament.

This dream was born out of the realisation that Africa has lost its value globally. With the end of the East-West conflict on our continent, not only have the Cold War superpowers withdrawn, but also many parts of Africa have now degenerated into all sorts of conflicts within and between states, with serious economic and humanitarian consequences. The challenge is for Africans to assert themselves globally, but in order to do that, Africa needs politically and economically strong and stable leadership that the world can reckon with.

On the economic front, the structure and orientation of African economies remain unchanged. Most of the continent’s economies are internal and not integrated, with little or no formal functioning of the economic sector. Social issues, poverty, disease and ignorance, 40 years after independence, still remain high on the list of key challenges facing the continent.

According to the United Nations Economic Commission for Africa, four in every 10 Africans live in absolute poverty, and expectations are that the proportion of people living in poverty on our continent will increase in this millennium.

On the political front, the postcolonial state remains largely untransformed in some parts of the continent. In such cases the African postcolonial state is being used as an instrument for self-enrichment by sections of the political elite, rather than creating a better life for all. It is for this reason that access to the state is so important for this political elite, to the extent that elections have become a source of conflict in some African countries.

It is therefore against this background that Africans have resolved to establish the African Union and initiated the programme for a New Partnership for Africa’s Development, Nepad, as an attempt to address all these ills engulfing the African continent.

The vision we have to guide us as we embark on this new and realised dream of this continent, has five pillars: peace and security - to bring an end to wars and violent conflict on our continent; democracy and good governance - to promote democracy, popular participation and respect for human rights, improve state capacity and strengthen people-driven governance; development - to fight underdevelopment and create a better life for all, including the eradication of poverty; culture - to affirm and protect African culture, and to improve Africa’s global standing.

The African Union and Nepad are attempts to operationalise this vision and create a new value system for our continent. The African Union provides an organisation vehicle for the realisation of the renaissance, while Nepad is the programme of action.

In this regard, the Pan-African Parliament will, for the first time at a continental level, give a voice to elected African representatives to monitor the progress in respect of the above-mentioned initiatives. It will hold leaders of our time accountable. The launch of the Pan-African Parliament will herald a new dawn for the peoples of Africa.

The Pan-African Parliament will further ensure that governments and states on the continent implement the AU programmes by exercising oversight on governments and states. Article 2(2) of the protocol states that the Pan- African Parliament shall represent all the peoples of Africa.

In other words, the Pan-African Parliament will enable them to have a common platform where they can air their views and be involved in discussions and decision-making on problems and challenges facing the continent.

As South Africans, we are firmly committed to the promotion of greater unity among all peoples of the African continent and within the Southern African region in particular.

I am happy to say that democratic South Africa will be an integral part of the process, defining the principles of equity, mutual benefit and peaceful co-operation to which the Pan-African Parliament and other African organisations subscribe. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mnr P A MATTHEE: Voorsitter, op 18 Maart 2004 kry Afrika nuwe hande, nuwe voete, nuwe oë, nuwe ore en ‘n nuwe verstand by in die vorm van die Pan- Afrika Parlement. Die inhuldigingsitting op 18 Maart word voorafgegaan deur streekvergaderings wat geskeduleer is vir 17 Maart, en wat gevolg sal word deur die eerste sessie van die parlement van 19-20 Maart. Ons wil graag al vyf die verkose lede van die Suid-Afrikaanse parlement, wat - ten spyte van geluide uit sekere oorde - sekerlik ‘n diversiteit van politieke opinie verteenwoordig, baie geluk en sterkte toewens met hulle groot en belangrike taak.

Daar is ‘n paar aspekte van die protokol ten opsigte van die Pan-Afrika Parlement waaromtrent daar myns insiens so spoedig moontlik klarigheid verkry sal moet word, soos artikel 6 wat sê dat Pan-Afrika parlementariërs in hulle persoonlike en onafhanklike hoedanigheid sal stem. Hierdie artikel behoort saam met artikel 4(3) gelees te word wat voorsiening maak vir ‘n diversiteit van politieke menings in elke afvaardiging. Dit kan tog sekerlik nooit die bedoeling gewees het dat Pan-Afrika parlementariërs maar die mandate van hulle parlemente, soos verteenwoordig deur die meerderheidspartye, net eenvoudig kan ignoreer nie.

Artikel 6, saamgelees met artikel 4(3), kan myns insiens hoogstens beteken dat politieke minderhede in ‘n afvaardiging nie die politieke meerderheid altyd hoef te steun nie, maar dat hulle onafhanklik sal kan stem, soos gemandateer deur hulle onderskeie partye. Dit is hoogstens wat dit kan beteken. As dit sou beteken dat elke lid maar net kan stem soos hy of sy goed dink, dan moet daar sekerlik weer na hierdie artikel gekyk word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, on 18 March 2004 Africa is getting new hands, new feet, new eyes, new ears and a new mind in the shape of the Pan-African Parliament. The inaugural sitting on 18 March is preceded by regional meetings that have been scheduled for 17 March, and will be followed by the first session of the parliament on 19 and 20 March. We would like to convey our congratulations to all five elected members of the South African parliament, who - in spite of noises from certain quarters - will certainly represent a diversity of political opinions, and we wish them every strength with their major and important task.

There are a few aspects of the protocol with regard to the Pan-African Parliament about which in my view clarity must be obtained as soon as possible, such as article 6 that states that Pan-African parliamentarians will vote in their personal and independent capacity. This article should be read in conjunction with article 4(3), which provides for a diversity of political opinions in each delegation. Surely the intention could never have been that Pan-African parliamentarians could simply ignore the mandates of their parliaments, as represented by their majority parties.

Article 6, read in conjunction with article 4(3), can in my view at most mean that political minorities in a delegation do not always have to support the majority, but that they will be able to vote independently, as mandated by their various parties. This is at most what it could mean. If it were to mean that each member could simply vote as he or she saw fit, surely this article should be looked at again.]

I believe that in order to ensure that Pan-African parliamentarians represent all the peoples of Africa, as envisaged in article 2(2), there should be the closest link possible between the Pan-African Parliament and the national parliaments. The idea of an election based on universal adult suffrage, as contained in article 2(3), as the ultimate aim of the Pan- African Parliament should, therefore, in my opinion, be revisited. Should the Pan-African Parliament ever be elected on the basis of universal suffrage, an institution will be created which has virtually no links with the national parliaments.

It may even happen that the majority of members elected on the basis of universal suffrage may have opposite political opinions from those of their peers in the national parliament. This will undoubtedly create an untenable situation.

The concept of the closest link possible between the Pan-African Parliament and the national parliaments is supported by the provisions of article 5(3) of the protocol, which reads:

The term of a member of the Pan-African Parliament shall run concurrently with his or her term in the national parliament.

An important function of the Pan-African Parliament will be to call member countries, which act against the objectives of the Pan-African Parliament as set out in article 3, to account. The objectives, inter alia, are to promote the principles of human rights and democracy in Africa; encourage good governance, transparency and accountability in member states; promote peace, security and stability; contribute to a more prosperous future for the peoples of Africa by promoting collective self-reliance and economic recovery; facilitate co-operation and development in Africa; strengthen continental solidarity; and build a sense of common destiny among the peoples of Africa and facilitate co-operation among regional economic communities and their parliamentary fora.

The Pan-African Parliament should, in my opinion, as soon as possible after its inauguration, start seeing to it that Nepad, the overall programme of action of the African Union, is implemented, so that the lives of all our people on our continent can be improved. I thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Chairperson, hon members, thank you once more for the opportunity to participate in this wonderful and most important debate today.

I would like to take you a step back to May 1994, to what the former President said during the inauguration address to the first South African democratically elected Parliament, and I want to quote the former President:

My Government’s commitment to create a people-centred society of liberty binds us to the pursuit of the goals of freedom from want, from hunger, from deprivation, from ignorance, from suppression and fear. These freedoms are fundamental to the guarantee of human dignity. They will therefore constitute part of the centrepiece of what this Government will seek to achieve, the focal point on which our attention will continuously be focused. With these words, a new era of representative democracy began in South Africa. Today, like yesterday, represents yet another milestone in our efforts to improve the socioeconomic wellbeing of our people.

We are gathered here at a time when we can look back with pride and boldly proclaim that we have indeed turned the tide against poverty, unemployment and economic deprivation. We are slowly but surely fulfilling our legal, civil and moral obligation to the most vulnerable and destitute section of our community. As we celebrate 10 years of our constitutional democracy, we should take cognisance of the fact that our Constitution is a unique one in that economic and social rights are integrated with and placed on equal par with political rights. We have indeed put in place the necessary legal framework, social institutions and economic imperatives, and created the political climate to make these rights a reality for the majority of our people.

We are, however, aware of the fact that our problems will never be completely resolved unless we start to earnestly engage with the challenges that the African continent faces. We have to engage not only with the continental challenges, but indeed with global efforts to fight poverty and economic deprivation. That’s quite important and relevant to the Pan- African Parliament.

It is within this context that we should review what brought us to this point in our history and future. From the early years of our history to the demise of apartheid in 1994, Pan-Africanism went through a number of evolutionary stages. Colonialism was overthrown. The dream of a united Africa has lived in the hearts and minds of African nationalists, but remained, in substance, a dream.

The creation of the OAU on 25 May 1963 offered nationalists some hope. The OAU was, however, more a regional association than a federation. In its charter, it simply expressed the wish to promote unity; it asserted the sovereign equality of member states; and upheld noninterference in the internal affairs of states.

The OAU continued until 2002, as you are aware, when a new body conceived as an improvement of the OAU was established with the assistance of South Africa. With the birth of the African Union, African nationalism and Pan- Africanism have entered a new stage. Notions such as the conceptualisation of a Pan-African Parliament, the significance of women representation and the intended use of African languages in the affairs of the AU all appear to indicate that the parameters in pursuit of the ideal of African unity are changing, and indeed that is so.

As Africa confronts the realities of the decomposition of the postcolonial state, it has the opportunity to redesign its political future. Africa is moving away from the design of a continent imposed on it by old colonial powers. A united Africa, which acknowledges its diaspora, beckons. An Africa united is an Africa capable of advancement. There is an understanding that in order to shape African nationalism within the concept of the African Union and Nepad, it is essential that the African private sector and civil-society structures are provided with opportunities to engage in a meaningful manner and are given a sense of ownership of the initiative.

Nepad is a pledge by African leaders to eradicate poverty, to place their own countries, both individually and collectively, on a path of sustainable growth and development and, at the same time, participate actively in the world economy and body politic. That’s very important, and I think people need to grasp and understand that.

Nepad needs political support and this is being provided through the involvement of parliaments and the Pan-African Parliament itself. It is intended that the PAP will inter alia, facilitate the effective implementation of policies and objectives of the OAU and AE and, ultimately, of the African Union; promote the principles of human rights and democracy in Africa; encourage good governance, transparency and accountability in member states; familiarise the people of Africa with the objectives of establishing the African Union; and facilitate co-operation among regional economic communities and their parliaments’ fora.

The greatest role of the Pan-African Parliament would be to be the link to the public, including civil-society organisations and the NGOs, and to ensure that improved governance and regional co-operation and integration are maintained. The Pan-African Parliament seeks to create a common platform for African people and their grass-roots organisations so as to be more involved in discussions and decision-making processes that are geared towards engaging the challenges facing Africa. It would seek to consolidate the vision and aspirations of African people for greater unity, solidarity and cohesion in a larger community, transcending cultural, ideological, ethnic, religious and national differences. Indeed, the Pan-African Parliament represents an important tool in the continental efforts to promote human rights, good governance and democracy in Africa. Its establishment indeed represents yet another milestone in these noble efforts.

With the establishment of the Pan-African Parliament, it is clear that the strengthening of parliaments throughout Africa, as institutions which would effect oversight with respect to accountability and good governance, is critically important. We need to ensure, however, that the Pan-African Parliament is developed and strengthened, and these could be done by cementing strong parliamentary leadership; by having institutional capacity- building; by aligning procedures and rules with capacity needs; and by designing an effective committee system.

The role of individual MPs should also not be underestimated because it’s quite important. It is not only the representatives of the various parliaments that have a mandate to fulfil, but individual MPs as well, as we are doing here today. It is wonderful to hear your views. You have the right to make inputs that could be taken to the Pan-African Parliament and also to sensitise the grass roots that you represent in your own constituencies. For the Pan-African Parliament to succeed, we need to sensitise those people on the ground. In that respect, I think it’s quite important. We need to raise these issues and place them on the regional agendas.

Various institutions and structures will have to be put in place - people have said that - in order to ensure effective co-ordination of Pan-African activities. These structures should be established in such a way that they promote public participation and strengthen the relationship between the Pan-African Parliament and the other parliamentary organs of African countries. They have to ensure effective co-ordination between the Pan- African Parliament and various organs of the African Union.

I would like to go back a little to issues that were raised in the debate. Ms Botha, you raised an issue which I thought I should perhaps react to. I think it’s important for the members to understand that when we composed the delegation to the Pan-African Parliament, our five delegates were duly elected by the two Houses. I think it’s important for you to understand that. It’s important because there was a procedure which had been agreed to by political parties, particularly the Whips of all the parties, that that process was wonderful and needed to be followed. The results of the process and outcomes were there. Therefore we should agree to the outcome because it’s part of our democracy and that’s the only way our democracy can be supported. Those were the outcomes. Even if one does not like the outcome, we nevertheless agreed on the process and the results are out. Therefore we should agree to those outcomes.

Public participation is arguably the most fundamental pillar in the promotion and protection of democratic governance and its institutions. The success of the Pan-African Parliament will depend largely on the extent of co-operation that exists between the PAP on the one hand, and various national governments and civil society in general on the other hand. Representative institutions within the Pan-African Parliament must therefore be established. Article 22 of the African Union Constitutive Act, for instance, makes provision for the establishment of the Economic Social and Cultural Council - Ecosoc - a structure through which civil society can be represented on the African Union.

The Pan-African Parliament is an autonomous body. However, as alluded to before, its success will largely depend on the extent of support and co- operation it receives from parliamentary organs of member states. In fact, article 18 is instructive in this regard, as it requires the Pan-African Parliament to work closely with parliaments of the regional economic communities, the East African Legislative Assembly, SADC and other structures, as well.

I have already spoken about Nepad and I think that is enough. I am not going to repeat that and other people have talked about Nepad.

In conclusion, may I thank you, Chairperson, for giving support to the NCOP group which participated in the larger working group, namely the hon Enver and Joyce Kgoali, and I also thank P A Matthee and Sandra Botha who also participated. I wish to thank you all. I think we will be successful. I thank you. [Applause.]


                      (Subject for Discussion)

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I am pleased to welcome the hon Minister of Public Works who will lead the debate, the hon Sigcau.

The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Hon Chairperson, hon Deputy Chairperson, hon members of the NCOP, first of all, I must thank you for having invited us to be part of the discussion on what I believe is a very important subject, not only for South Africa, but also for the rest of the continent of Africa.

The President of our country, on 11 November 2003, announced the business plan for the programme itself. All we are doing at the moment is putting together many of the necessary programmes, so that when the main programme is launched in April, we shall be in a position to say that we have all the tools to deal with the programme properly.

One of the mistakes of the past which we have taken from the previous programmes, was not preparing people properly to run the various programmes. So, what I intend doing this afternoon is actually going through the groundwork we have covered in order to make sure that the project will become a very useful one.

I shall also, as I’m talking, take account of the fact that there are different categories of people. Some are educated, but with the type of education that makes them unemployable. Some people are in the informal sector, but do not have the type of certification that recognises the skills that they have gathered all along. That is why then, as Public Works, we have looked at a broad range of issues to make sure that we lay down a firm foundation for what we believe is definitely one of the most aggressive poverty alleviation programmes that South Africa is undertaking, and also to make sure that in this aggressive programme of Government, we have a target.

It is interesting that all parties of South Africa are in agreement. I’ve seen it in the manifesto. We all talk about the one million jobs. [Interjections.] So, I want to indicate how Government plans to lay the foundation so that this becomes a reality.

In this particular programme, within the first five years of operation, we shall utilise no less than R15 billion so that we will be in a position to create more than one million jobs. In that we shall include learnership and internships through selected infrastructure development and other labour- intensive Government-funded projects.

Amongst other things, this programme will build, as you might have been informed previously, 37 000 km of road, 31 000 km of pipeline, 1 500 km of storm water drains and 150 km of urban sidewalks. I am just quoting a small part of a very comprehensive programme.

The focus of the Extended Public Works Programme is to address underdevelopment in the second economy by building infrastructure. The ultimate goal of economic policy is to develop a single integrated economy.

The second element is the skilling of our people so that they move from being unemployable to employable. The target groups will be school-leavers, graduates, retrenched workers and other categories of unskilled people that we have in our country. Once they complete that training, they will be better positioned to be absorbed into the mainstream economy.

In addition to this, the social sector will focus on community-based care and early childhood development. The social sector, as you know, is highly labour-intensive and has low overheads. This sector will have a budget of R600 million from National Treasury, which is estimated to create at least 20 000 jobs.

The economic sector will provide unemployed people with learnerships relevant to that sector. This will target 15 000 employees over five years. General expenditure by Government on goods will be used to provide practical working experience to learners.

Sector learnerships and work-based experience and training will significantly increase the chances of entering the job market for the first time and re-employment after retrenchment or at the end of a contract.

In the spirit of the Growth and Development Summit and through national agreements, three major financial institutions have made proposals to provide financial services to learner contractors, which is really a first.

Discussions have been held with the relevant parties at Nedlac. Proposals for business support for the programme through the Business Trust have been formulated and will be submitted to the board of the Business Trust shortly. Some donor support for the programme has been received, and further donor support is being mobilised.

The infrastructural, environmental and social sectors of the Extended Public Works Programme have completed detailed sector plans, detailing how each sector will contribute to the creation of job opportunities in their respective sectors.

In the infrastructure sector, a labour-intensive contractor learnership programme has been established. This programme is a joint initiative of the Department of Public Works and the Construction, Education and Training Authority, Ceta, and will be implemented with partnering provinces and municipalities. The Department of Public Works will put in place the National Qualifications Framework unit standards, qualifications and accredited training programmes for contractors and engineers for labour- intensive construction. It looks like everybody will be going back to school.

The Construction, Education and Training Authority, together with the Department of Labour, will play a crucial role in ensuring these standards are implemented. At least 500 individuals across the country will enter into learnerships for contractors and construction site supervisors in order to execute the Extended Public Works Programme. I remember from the last debate we had in this House that we were also worried about the whole issue of supervising the projects that we have, so we have catered for that.

Consultants and contractors who participate in the Extended Public Works Programme will have to complete these courses to ensure that they have the skills to execute the work efficiently. Train-the-trainer programmes for 35 training providers are currently running to ensure that these training courses will be available across the country.

A programme to visit various provinces and municipalities is under way. The objective is to explain the role of both the provinces and municipalities and to give comprehensive guidelines about the implementation of projects under the Extended Public Works Programme.

Salga, the SA Local Government Association, held a conference last year to which they invited us. This gave us a further opportunity to make a presentation on the role of provincial and municipal government in the Extended Public Works Programme. We have also made presentations in this regard to the Minmec.

Under the leadership of the Minister of Public Works, the Extended Public Works Programme introduces the highest levels of co-ordination across all departments that will be involved in the Extended Public Works Programme. Informed by the experience of the Community-Based Public Works Programme and improved co-ordination across the departments, communities will enjoy better quality infrastructure and services. Public Works will assist municipalities and provinces in the simplification of implementation.

We need to congratulate the provinces on budgets that show a clear bias towards poverty eradication. If you really look at some of their budgets, you’ll see they’re going the way of job creation, job creation and more job creation!

So we are not playing marbles. We want to make sure that unemployment slowly becomes a thing of the past. We also want to ensure that our people do not always knock at the door of welfare, but that they have the dignity of working for their own livelihood which we have given them. That is what we are all about - the building of a society that we can boast about, the building of a spirit of patriotism that will make people believe that they are truly South Africans and can do things for themselves in their own country during their own lifetimes.

It is obvious that our objective of going to the provinces, of going to the municipalities and of coming up with comprehensive guidelines is to ensure that implementation takes place as we expect it to. If some of you come back after the elections, and even if you are in retirement, just make sure that in your communities the work that we intend to do gets champions, because there is nothing as discouraging as coming up with plans which start off being exciting and thereafter start fading away.

So we rely on you, hon members as representatives of your communities, to make sure that the programme works. You know, at times when I sit in my office, I picture this sounding like: Kghr-kghr-kghrooo! Kghrooo! Phtshu! Tshu! Tshu! Khutshu-khutshu! … [Laughter] … coming from all the people of South Africa who are at work. Mount Ayliff has no reason to have those dongas. Something must be done to make sure that there are land-care programmes to bring vitality to the land.

If Singapore has successfully reclaimed land from the sea, how can we as a people let our land go to ruin when we can do something about it? So, I want to believe that the countryside will begin to mend, but the countryside won’t mend if we don’t work together, if we don’t come up with ideas which will make this programme a reality. So, the challenge we are setting to you, hon members, is that if you think of anything that would be for the good of the programme, we have the biggest ear. I nearly made a mistake and compared myself to the biggest ear who listens to all your wishes, but we have an ear and we are prepared to listen.

As I have said, the Department of Public Works is there, the co-ordinator. We have visited the provinces.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Order, hon Minister! I’m afraid your time has expired. Order!

The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Lastly, I really want to say … Even if you say “Order!’’, just indulge me because you made me leave Cabinet. [Laughter.] We are also in line with the topic you have just discussed, exploring linkages and possible co-operation with the Ministry of Defence to join forces in combating poverty and developing a resource pool to address the developmental imperatives of South Africa and through Nepad’s peace-keeping initiative. Thank you. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Hon members must note that I will not be as indulgent with the hon members, given that the Minister did attend this plenary, having attended Cabinet earlier today. We were indulgent and it is the penultimate sitting of the House, but such indulgence will not recur.

Nksz P C P MAJODINA: Mandibulele kuwe Mama osesihlalweni, Mphathiswa neenkokeli zonke ezikule Ndlu.

Iinkonzo zoluntu ezandisiweyo yindlela ethe ngqo yokuphucula ubomi babantu bakowethu nokudala imisebenzi namathuba emisebenzi. URhulumente, ngokukhokelwa yintetho eyenziwe nguMongameli wesizwe, iZizi, uyibhengezile le nkqubo yokugxothwa kwendlala. Yinkqubo apho onke amasebe athi adlale indima ethe vetshe ukuphuhlisa uluntu. Asengela thungeni linye ukuze kufezekiswe ngokugqibeleleyo intsebenziswano noluntu, ukudala ubomi obungcono. Uluntu luya kuthabatha inxaxheba ngokuthi lube yinxalenye yokuziphuhlisa lusebenzisa ngakumbi izandla zalo. Yinkqubo eza kuqala ibaqeqesha abantu, bamelane nalo msebenzi ongakanana wokuchiliza nokududula iinduduma zentlupheko.

Kwiminyaka elishumi edlulileyo, wayengekho urhulumente owayevuma ukuba kukho amahlwempu eMzantsi Afrika; wayengekho urhulumente owayevuma ukuba akukho misebenzi eMzantsi Afrika. Namhlanje wonk’ umntu ukhomba kulo Rhulumente uphetheyo.

Incwadi kaMarko, isahluko sesixhenxe, ivesi ye-18 ukuya kweye-19, ithi:

“Nikwanje nani na ukuswela ingqondo? Aniqiqi na, ukuba konke okungaphandle, okuthi kungene emntwini, akunako ukumenza inqambi? Ngokuba akungeni khona entliziyweni yakhe, kungena esiswini, ize kuphume endaweni esese, ezihlambululayo zonke izidlo.”

Ndibhekisa ke kumaqela aphikisayo, athi xa efuna iivoti ababaze ubuhlwempu. Ayekho phambi ko-1994, bukhona obu buhlwempu engathethi ngabo, engatsho nelimdaka eli. Phofu ke, Sihlalo, xa iimvula zehlobo zisina kukhonya kukhonye nomofu, athi: “Nam ndikho apha.”

Ndima ngokuzingca apha kule Ndlu namhlanje, ngakumbi xa ndisenza intetho yam yokugqibela apha kule Ndlu, kwesi siqingatha sobomi bePalamente. URhulumente ophetheyo kudala wamela iimpula zikaLujaca. Yiloo nto ke eza kubambisana nabantu kuphuhliso, i``people’s contract’’. Umceli-mngeni ophambili ke kukulwa indlala kubantu boMzantsi Afrika. Kaloku lo Rhulumente walathiwe ukuba ashumayele iindaba ezimnandi kwabasweleyo. Wathunywa nguThixo ke lo Rhulumente ukuze avakalise inkululeko kubathinjwa; avule amehlo eemfama. Ndicaphula ke phaya kuLuka, isahluko sesesine, ivesi yeye- 18 ukuya kweye-19, apho athi:

Indithume ukuba ndiphilise abantliziyo ityumkileyo; ndivakalise inkululeko kubathinjwa; nokubuyiselwa kokubona kwabaziimfama; ndindulule abaqobekileyo bekhululekile; ndivakalise umnyaka owamkelekileyo weNkosi.

Thina asiphethanga nje, sivunywa nayiNcwadi eNgcwele. NoYesu Kristu wayelihlwempu, yiloo nto wazalelwa esitalini, kuba kaloku iinkonzo zazingekho ngelo xesha. Eli phulo ke lisondeza iinkonzo ezifana nezibhedlele kwaneekliniki kubantu bakowethu ukuze amaziko empilo afikeleleke, inkqubo yokunqanda ukhukuliseko lomhlaba, njengoko sele etshilo umphathiswa, nokwakhiwa kweendlela zezwe lakowethu.

Le nkqubo iphinda yoyame naphaya kwincwadi kaYohane isahluko seseshumi, ivesi yeyeshumi, apho kuthiwa: “Isela alizi lingazele ukuze libe, lixhele, litshabalalise.’’ Mna ndingu-ANC ndizele ubomi obubhetele kuni nonke. Qhuba Mphathiswa; qhuba nkosazana; qhuba maFaku, usazi mhlophe ukuba abapheli ooTomasi. Babekho mandulo, basekho nanamhlanj’ oku. Kanti banoyolo abo bangahlaliyo kwiimbutho zabagxeki.

Le nkqubo inika uluntu umnatha khon’ ukuze uluntu luzilobele iintlanzi ngokwalo, lungasoloko lunikwa iintlanzi imihla nezolo. Yinkqubo le eza kushiya abantu benobungcaphephe, khon’ ukuze kukhule umgangatho woqoqosho. Kambe ke, Mphathiswa, abantu mabafundiswe, bachazelwe kakuhle ngale nkqubo ukuba ayina kunika misebenzi esisigxina, koko iza neendlela zokuncedisa abantu ukuze nabo bazivulele imisebenzi ngokwabo. Yinkqubo ezama ukusiguzula ekusebenziseni oomatshini isibuyisele kwimisebenzi yezandla. Sisebenza elimeni ke. Ukuze ke ingonakali le nkqubo, kufuneka sibambisane. Xa imkile imitshini, maze kungasweleki umlandeli emkhondweni wam.

Isebe likaMphathiswa maliyenze lula inkqubo yokhuphiswano kwiinkonzo ezikhutshwa nguRhulumente khon’ ukuze wonke ubani axhamle. Eli sebe limele ukuba libe bubuso belizwe lakowethu.

Iimeko zendlela nezakhiwo zikaRhulumente mazibe semgangathweni. Ndiyaqonda ukuba kwiinkqubo namaphulo eli sebe angaphambili, noko sibe nakho ukufunda. Iincutshe ke zokuphuhlisa uluntu luluntu ngokwalo. Mayihlome ihlasele, kuliwe indlala!

Asithethi ke ngabo banamabhongo kaNomathemba, abatshambaza nje bengenzi nto, bavuthelane oku koonomasele. Le nto iyindlalo kwi-DA, yokugrogrisa abantu bethu ngemisebenzi engekhoyo, iyintlungu kuthi kuba siyayazi indlala. Ndiyabulela, Sihlalo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa speech follows.)

[Ms P C P MAJODINA: Thank you, Chairperson, hon Minister and all leaders in this House.

The expanded public works programme is an essential exercise for the improvement of the life of our people and create employment opportunities. In his state of the nation address, the President, Zizi, talked about this programme, so, therefore, Government is guided by it. It is a programme in which all state departments have to play a remarkable role in improving the living conditions of our people. They work hand in hand effectively to implement policies with the public participation to better people’s living conditions. The public is meant to participate by initiating things that they do with their own hands. People will first be trained so that they could acquire the necessary skills required so that they can cope well and be able to push back the frontiers of poverty.

The government that was in power ten years ago, the government denied that there were poor people in South Africa also denied that there were no jobs in South Africa. Today, everybody points fingers at this Government. Mark 7:18-19 goes:

Don’t you understand? Nothing that goes into a person from the outside can really make him unclean, because it does not go into his heart but into his stomach and then goes on out of the body.

This is directed to opposition parties that always mention poverty to gain party-political points. They existed long before 1994 and there was poverty, but they never talked about it. However, now that things have changed and a new government is in place, many have something to say. As I rise before this House today, I fell very proud, especially because it is for the last time that I am addressing it. This Government has always stood for poor people. That is why it is committed to honouring the people’s contract. The main challenge we are faced with in South Africa is fighting poverty. The Government has been given the mandate to deliver good deeds. This Government has been chosen by God Almighty to free people from slavery and open the eyes of those who cannot see. Luke 4:18-19 goes:

The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has chosen me to bring good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovery of sight to the blind; to set free the oppressed and announce that the time has come when the Lord will save his people.

The Good News Bible asserts our right to be in power. Even the Lord Jesus Christ was poor. He was born in a stable because there were no professional health services available then. This campaign, therefore, is bringing hospitals and clinics closer to people so that they could have easy access. It is also aimed at infrastructure development, which would also include road construction. John 10:10 goes: ``The thief comes only in order to steal, kill and destroy.’’

We, as the ANC, have brought new life to you all. I applaud you, hon Minister. Do continue to do out the good work, daughter of the Fakus. You know very well that there will always be Thomases. They existed before; they are still here even today.

This programme is preparing ground for people who want to do things for themselves. People are going to be empowered and enabled to gain skills so that there can be sustainable economic development. However, people must be educated and it needs to be explained that this programme will not provide permanent jobs, but that it is only an expanded way of assisting people so that they too can initiate things, in that way opening up other job opportunities. It is reintroducing us to labour-intensive programmes of work. We should work as a team. In order for it to succeed, we need to work together. When we have introduced labour-intensive programmes, I trust that there will be people to fill the gap. The department that the Minister heads should simply rules so that everybody could get a fair chance in this programme. Roads and Governemnt buildings should be in the best of conditions. I believe that we learnt a number of things during the past campaigns that were organised by this department. The whole of society is responsible to develop itself. Let us roll up our sleeves and fight poverty!

I would not like to mention the likes of the DA that cannot produce anything they have done for the people of this country. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]]

Mr N M RAJU: Hon Chair, hon Minister, hon colleagues, in his address to the nation on 6 February 2004, the hon President of the Republic set the tone for the harnessing of Public Works initiatives to attack the scourge of poverty and unemployment in the country. We have just heard the hon Minister who has clearly defined areas for Government’s intervention in this regard. I just want to say that I certainly welcome the hon Minister’s statement about the situation of soil erosion in various parts of our country, and I agree with her exhortations to ensure that we must claim our land where erosion has ``uglified’’ the landscape.

In any Public Works Programme the involvement of local communities is paramount. The DA welcomes the Minister’s remarks about the potential possibilities of extended programmes in the arena of Public Works in order to engage communities in employment as a first step towards fighting unemployment and poverty. However, the DA warns: let us not dupe the people of South Africa into believing that getting jobs to refurbish buildings, build roads and infrastructure, upgrade storm water pipes, repair and renovate flats, construct police stations and clinics and a whole lot of short-term work constitute a panacea for our ills. The duration of such work is usually short, a few days or weeks or even months, and our people want work of a permanent nature rather than jobs for a few weeks or days.

While these programmes, if closely monitored, can contribute to addressing the infrastructural backlogs in South Africa, they certainly will not arrest the unemployment crisis. Only higher savings and investment can provide the golden thread to higher income and job creation.

The people of this lovely land, however, are not yet out of the woods. While we celebrate a decade of democratic freedom, while we celebrate the fact that millions have access to potable water and electricity and a modicum of decent housing, there are millions yet of fellow South Africans who are left behind or feel left behind. Some 8 million South Africans are out of work. Some 22,5 million South Africans are living in abject poverty.

These are not just cold statistics. They represent human beings, pulsating with life, who must never be left outside on the pavement, peering inside the windows with a sense of expectancy and despair. South Africa needs real change for a better South Africa for all. Therefore, the DA says, nay, the DA insists that the Government of South Africa reverse its position on the basic income grant so that life can change for the better. The basic income grant of R110 per month will help millions of poor people enter the cash economy.

My party in KwaZulu-Natal welcomes the building budget for the SA Police Service, especially for repairs and renovation to police complexes in Inanda and Richmond, the building of new complexes at Babanango and Upper Thukela, and the upgrading and servicing of sewerage systems and electricity. For too long, the Police Service in our country has been expected to do a lot, but, unfortunately, it is not given the credit, recognition and, most importantly, the resources it needs.

Hon Chair, with your indulgence, I would like to conclude by taking this opportunity to say goodbye to the House and to my fellow hon colleagues. I have thoroughly enjoyed my sojourn in the House. I have enjoyed the cameraderie and the often heated exchanges between the hon members. At no time did our confrontational ping-pong descend into fratricidal proportions. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms B THOMSON: Uyazi Sihlalo, oRaju bayahlupha ngoba noma sebexoshwa ababoni. Lezi zinto azishoyo kule Ndlu singazithatha nje sihleka kodwa [You know, Chairperson, Raju and company are irritating because they don’t even see when they are being gotten rid of. These things he is saying in this House can be taken as a joke but …]

… it’s very serious, because this is what they are saying to our people.

… bebathembisa ukubanikeza imali kadekle uxakeke ukuthi imali bazoyithathaphi bona ingekho nohulumeni engenayo. [… promising to give people basic income grants, and you get confused as to where they are going to get this money that even the Government does not have.]

We also believe that the number of grants we have are quite sufficient for our people. When the ANC came into power in 1994, we knew that we would have to correct the imbalances of the apartheid past. We also knew that these imbalances would require an intensive reconstruction and development strategy to ensure that our people could have some semblance of normalcy after the abnormal society we inherited.

For the ANC this meant that every single government department in the new regime would have to be transformed to meet the priorities of this new agenda, and, for the past 10 years, we have also set out systematically reconstructing a society that addresses the historic underdevelopment and deprivation that was the cornerstone of our society.

According to Statistics SA, it is estimated that since 1995 approximately 28% of households and 48% of the population have been living below the estimated poverty line. In 1999 it was estimated that 45% of female-headed households 26% of male-headed households were living below the poverty line.

With this new overwhelming backlog of services to the vulnerable in South Africa, the Department of Public Works embarked upon a Public Works programming initiative geared specifically towards poverty alleviation. Indeed, the eradication of poverty by any and all means at their disposal has been part of the ANC-led Government’s policy priorities since we came into power in 1994.

This Expanded Public Works Programme is not the only such initiative to roll back the frontiers of poverty and should not be seen in isolation, but in the broader context of the Government’s measures to address poverty and unemployment.

Ngiyacabanga ukuthi uyezwa-ke mhlonishwa uRaju ukuthi [I think you understand, hon Raju, that … ]

… it’s not actually the sole responsibility of Public Works to eradicate poverty. They merely contribute to the whole exercise. It’s just a contribution from the department. It is, in fact, complementary to the social grant programme central to the Department of Social Development. The social assistance given in the form of social grants remains our most fundamental poverty eradication tool and should not be seen as being in competition with the Public Works Programme.

The primary focus of the Public Works Programme is to develop highly labour- intensive projects and move away from machinery intensive of works, thereby creating more employment for a large number of South Africans in dire straits. Also, this Public Works Programme tries to provide a bridge between our growing economy and the disproportionately large numbers of unskilled and unemployed people who have found themselves excluded from economic development.

Minister, we would also like to commend the department for coming up with this recognition of prior learning. I think it will tie in well with what I’ve just said now. So, this initiative seeks to create jobs, invest in social and economic infrastructure and expand human resources based on the training of participants in the programme.

Indeed, the Community-Based Public Works Programme was structured in such a way that it targeted, primarily, the rural poor. More importantly, its objective was to create short-term work opportunities for the poor through the construction of public assets … ``lokhu besibonile ukuthi uRaju akakwazi’’ … [we saw that Raju does not know this.]

… by creating business opportunities with community assets the rural poor is targeted.

Built into the targets of this component of the Public Works Programme is that 30% of the budgets of projects is to be spent on local labour, 50% should be on women, 15% should be on the youth, and another 1,5% should be on the disabled. Already, there has been tangible evidence that these programmes have been implemented through the creation of community gardens, the building of public roads, the Working for Water projects, and multipurpose centres and projects that protect the environment like the correcting of soil erosion.

In fact, since 1998 the programme has employed 127 683 local workers on 3 152 projects valued at R1,4 billion. Of these workers, 52 616 were women, 52 904 were youths and 2 335 were disabled people.

On the issue of gender equality, despite our numerous initiatives, one being the identification of nodal points in the context of urban and rural development programmes, we are still lagging behind.

When it comes to rural development, we have identified the areas of our communities where the most marginalised sectors live. It is also here that we have identified the need to focus our social spending.

This is the nature of our Expanded Public Works Programme, a place where large numbers of our unemployed can be drawn into productive work, where they can get enhanced training in existing skills, or be taught new skills necessary to become more productive members of society.

We know that we have made a lot of strides to improve the circumstances of our jobless poor, but we understand that we still have a long way to go to completely address all our concerns. To this end, the struggle of poverty eradication still continues. Ngiyabonga. [Thank you.] [Applause.]

Dr E A CONROY: Hon Chairperson, Minister Sigcau and colleagues, before one can even attempt to analyse, let alone completely understand the very complex and social concept of poverty, an effort should be made to define it from various perspectives and, finally, decide on an operational definition which can be used in the process of developing solutions.

S J Olivier quotes a statement by September in her doctoral thesis in that it is at the point of attempting to define poverty that a lot of controversy arises as there seems to be no single and all-encompassing definition of the problem. She agrees with the opinion of experts like Glewwe and Van der Gaag that different population groups are classified as poor through different definitions and, therefore, that the strategies employed to solve the problem will be affected by these different definitions.

Traditional definitions categorise poverty into two concepts, namely absolute poverty and poverty in relative terms. Olivier quotes Kgarimetsa’s description of the former as a state of extreme human deprivation, a total lack of basic necessities and a total failure to satisfy the basic human needs, while Kritzinger and others are of the opinion that it implies the absence of the absolute minimum required to survive and the inability to attain a minimum standard of living. Others, again, use the basic needs approach to define poverty by stating that households are defined as poor if their food, clothing, medical, education and other needs are not met.

Relative poverty, on the other hand, is quoted by the same S J Olivier as the unequal distribution of resources and denial of the poor to gain access to opportunities to advance themselves, that is opportunities to become gainfully employed and that, from a development economics point of view, poverty is described by the number of people living below a minimum level of income. Relative poverty is generally associated with a low level of per capita income and increasing inequalities, and the distinction between the rich and poor is measured in terms of either the poverty datum line, minimum subsistence level, household subsistence level, minimum living level or supplementary living level.

As poverty is also related, in terms of household consumption, per capita food consumption, to food ratio, calorie intake and medical indicators of health and nutritional status, poverty can also be defined by measurable indicators.

A further concept, namely the three-dimensional perspective, describes poverty from the economic, social and political angles. The economic angle views poverty in terms of a lack of resources, land, infrastructure, production materials and no or minimal access to credit, markets and production assets. The social viewpoint, on the other hand, is of the opinion that a lack of shelter and sanitation, and a lack of access to health, education and recreation facilities constitute poverty.

To be able to address the issue of poverty, it is necessary to gain a thorough understanding of it by identifying its components and thereby recognising it as a problem. The statement by the Department of Economic and Social Development of the United Nations that poverty, unemployment and low-productivity employment are of the highest concern to many developing countries, leads one to conclude that poverty is a truly global problem, and that this grave social and economic problem, with its devastating effects, knows no frontiers.

The fact that church leaders, politicians, economists and Government officials are concerned about the nature and extent of poverty in South Africa, and that journalists regularly report about the plight of street children, the poor, the aged and the disabled, conclusively shows that even in South Africa poverty has been recognised to be a problem. The fact that regular conferences and seminars on poverty are held, illustrates the degree of seriousness with which this problem is being considered in South Africa.

The following are identified as the major components or key factors of poverty and could be seen as the critical performance areas for a strategy to combat poverty. In terms of lack of food and the provision of social services in general, according to Maslow’s hierarchy of needs, food would be the basic human need. The fact, however, that sufficient food is produced in a country does not necessarily mean that nobody suffers the lack of it or that it is accessible to all households.

Those who produce food do so as an economic activity which would produce an income for themselves. They sell their products to the consumers who have a source of income which would enable them to purchase the products. Except in cases where it is done as part of a welfare or charity exercise, food is nowhere available free of charge.

According to the United Nations, famine and hunger are caused primarily by a lack of purchasing power which is a characteristic of poverty. The poor have neither an adequate income, nor assets that can be exchanged or sold. The unemployed who do not have a regular source of income, therefore, suffer from a chronic shortage and, even worse, a total lack of food.

Wilson and Ramphele state that there is widespread hunger and malnutrition, and that diseases associated with poor nutrition take a heavy toll, particularly amongst children. Other particularly vulnerable groups are the elderly, pregnant and lactating mothers and schoolchildren. Secondly, not only is there a backlog in the provision of housing in South Africa, but all too often the existing shelters are inadequate in that there is poor sewerage, refuse removal and ability to keep up with the South African climatic extremes of rain, damp weather and cold or heat.

The poor’s major constraint in increasing their economic productivity is the large amount of time needed to deal with daily necessities such as fetching water and fire wood - an activity on which more than three hours is spent per day. Because of poor access to clean water and proper sanitary conditions, poor people suffer from added disadvantages resulting in poor health, which further impacts on their productivity and quality of life.

In the third instance, illiteracy and education are the issues. Illiteracy is also a major component of poverty in South Africa. The impact of illiteracy and poor education in South Africa is mostly of a political, social and economic nature. It results in low productivity, slow economic growth, low personal per capita income, underemployment and unemployment, and a high dependency rate on a limited number of breadwinners in the extended family. In the last instance, there are the issues of unemployment and insufficient income. Income, in the most basic economic sense, is the reward that one obtains for one’s labour and which is used to purchase goods and services designed to satisfy one’s needs. The root of poverty in a market economy is therefore an inadequate income, which fails to buy the products or services which are required to provide for basic human needs.

When the question is posed as to what causes poverty in South Africa, the most consistent answer is the chronic lack of sufficient income caused by unemployment. This leads one to conclude that unemployment can be considered to be a major determinant of poverty in South Africa. The problem of unemployment in South Africa is compounded by the total lack of assets of large parts of the population, and this leads them to rely solely on their labour to improve their income opportunities.

Unemployment is by far the most important cause of poverty in most countries and the most serious economic problem in the world. Closely linked is insufficient income, which is a grave problem of the poor in all countries of the world.

Unemployment is the root of poverty. Unemployment and underemployment are, according to the United Nations, the most serious economic problems in the world and by far the most important causes of poverty in all countries. No employment means no income. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms M G VANTURA (Western Cape): Madam Chairperson, I bring greetings from the provincial legislature of the Western Cape. I would just like to say that the ANC members in the legislature welcome the announcements made yesterday by the MEC for finance, MEC Ibrahim Rasool, in his budget speech.

A better life for all is our promise to the people. As Government we are collectively accountable to delivering on this promise. People in general do not see Government as being made up of separate spheres which are distinctive, interdependent and interrelated, as set out in the Constitution. Instead, the majority of people see Government as government, and not as national, provincial or local.

We are, and will continue to be, held responsible collectively. One of the primary objectives of the local government, as set out in section 152 of the Constitution, is to promote social and economic development. Since 1994 the chronic need for infrastructure development has dominated the agenda of local government, and correctly so. Access to basic services with viable shelter is the foundation on which we must build.

Without having adequate drinking water, sanitation, clean energy and access to transport, we cannot hope to stimulate social and economic development, because our people would expend all their resources just to overcome those obstacles. We have made impressive progress in the roll-out of basic services and infrastructure development at local level. We are now in a position to put the next level of development in place.

Local government must be commended for having achieved so much in the first 10 years of democracy. Indeed, that experience is invaluable in ensuring delivery of the social and economic development agenda. The declaration of the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme, the Urban Renewal Strategy, the nodal development areas, the LED programmes and, very importantly, the IDPs, are all about ensuring the integration of infrastructure and basic service development with social and economic development.

This is a profound shift in the focus of local government which impacts on the other two spheres of government. However, no longer can we make the assumption that infrastructure development will automatically give rise to socioeconomic development, or that basic services will automatically empower people to develop sustainable livelihoods for themselves. Whilst these conditions are a prerequisite, they can sometimes result in unintended consequences, such as the cost of services being unaffordable, resulting in hardships and loss. It is important that development becomes systematic, in other words, that we develop people along with the resources around them. We must develop people to be able to take up the opportunities and equip them with the tools that will enable them to participate in the local economy so that they can generate their own income, their own food and their own social safety nets. In order to do so, we have to critically analyse the concept of community development and what we mean by it.

In recent times a new buzz word has emerged that attempts to measure the value of community, so that one can understand the sustainability of development projects in specific communities. Here I am talking about social capital. The term “social capital” means different things to different people. The definition varies quite considerably, but for the purpose of this discussion, I will refer to the one that the World Bank uses. Social capital refers to the institutions, relationships and norms that shape the quality and the quantity of a society’s social interactions. Increasing evidence shows that social cohesion is critical for societies to prosper economically and for development to be sustainable. Social capital is not just the sum of the institutions which can underpin a society. It is the glue that holds them together. It is the latter statement that characterises social capital as the glue which holds civil society together that is most insightful.

It goes without saying that this can only come about through trust between people and structures of Government and society, be they formal or informal, be they governmental or nongovernmental. Without trust there is no social capital. That, I believe, is the essence of community, and that is what we must seek to build when we talk about the community. It is about building strong communities that will bring about our aim of a caring society, a caring and self-reliant society; the way in which we go about ensuring that as government we provide integrated service delivery to our people.

Without a shadow of a doubt, the greatest national priority now and for the foreseeable future will be the fight against poverty. This will inform our strategy, as well as our vision for the way forward. Whatever one’s definition of poverty, whatever one attributes to being the root causes of poverty and whatever one’s ideological viewpoint is, we all agree that sustainable development is the answer. Debates will not feed people, research will not feed people and ideology will not feed people. Practical implementation, however, will.

Having said that, moving ahead without research, strategic planning and debating our implementation plan is not sustainable, but self-defeating. Therefore the key aspects for further development are: one, community participation, because communities must own the strategy - without a buy-in at community level, any intervention will not be sustainable; two, the transversal nature of poverty, because poverty is multidimensional and affects every aspect of life; it is not only about money, but also about nutrition, health, safety, access to assistance, opportunity, education, skills, employment, etc. Poverty must be tackled at all levels in order to make a real change.

I now come to Vuk’uzenzele and regenerating the moral fibre of our communities. Centuries of oppression, active discrimination and the social ills that befell our society must be addressed to the extent that they eroded the very fabric of our society. We cannot hope to succeed in the fight against poverty without being anchored in a strong society.

Local government is always at the coalface of government implementation and therefore the IDP processes are absolutely crucial in the implementation of Government strategy on poverty. The development and maintenance of infrastructure is what the rest of us can only build on. A strong local government sector is an absolute necessity.

Public Works programmes will be used to kick-start employment, skills development, economic activity and infrastructure development, but their success is dependent on sustainability which, in turn, depends on all other aspects also becoming realities.

Co-ops and home-industry support networks are areas of microbusiness development that will be the most productive in creating sustainable livelihoods. Clothing manufacturing, fishing, agriculture, building, etc, are all activities that can provide an income for survival. Co-ops can also provide the platform for the distribution of benefits and the pooling of resources. With co-ops communities have the opportunity to access much greater assistance for funding and financial backing than they would have as individuals. Once again, this depends on the structures that are put in place to support the co-ops and to stop them from becoming conflict-ridden.

Government provides a safety net in a variety of ways. With regard to social services and poverty alleviation, we pay social grants and pensions to the vulnerable, such as the elderly and the disabled and to children who qualify for the child support grant. In addition, we fund subsidised projects, programmes and institutions that further strengthen that social safety net. Further still, we do a range of capacity-building projects and funding which seek to strengthen the social fabric of communities.

Our vision is to build a self-reliant society. We believe that it is obvious that the Government cannot do this alone and, in any event, by definition a self-reliant society means that the measure of our success is the extent to which we can develop people and the social structures in our community so that they are not reliant on Government.

This Government is a caring government, and therefore self-reliance cannot ever mean that we will not take care of the vulnerable in our society. On the contrary, the concept of self-reliance is the very basis on which we have been able to make more resources available to those who are unable to be self-reliant, such as the aged, the severely handicapped, children who are food-insecure, and the indigent. At the moment we have half a million people in this province alone receiving grants/pensions from Government, totalling more than R280 million per month.

The building of our communities is the building of our common destiny. By building strong communities we are building a bright future and a better life for all. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: Hon Chairperson, I welcome the presence of the hon Minister of the department. I will also take this opportunity to welcome back the hon Raju from his record-breaking one-day suspension inflicted by the DA. It is just a pity that this one-day suspension inflicted so much pain on the hon member that he had a memory lapse, a memory lapse in that he forgot that you cannot forever be building a police station. There must be a time when it is completed and you thank the workers. You cannot build a school forever; there will be a stage when the school is completed and you thank those workers. The same goes for clinics and so on. It would be interesting to know where Mr Raju was after those clinics were built. He forgot that there are nurses who are appointed permanently. We must make a distinction between the two. Waar was jy, mnr Raju? [Where were you, Mr Raju?] It would be interesting to know where Mr Raju was after the schools were built. There are teachers who were appointed permanently. O ne o le kae, Mna Raju? [Where were you, Mr Raju?]

I would also like to respond to the issue of the basic income grant, because our Government has a very comprehensive social security system which includes the recently increased pensions, the child support grants, the support grants for the disabled, food parcels and feeding schemes. Those children who are guarded by the old pensioners, the old mothers, do participate in these feeding schemes at school and so on.

However, it is unfortunate that some people decided not to be in the country when such noble programmes were being implemented. We say that, in the spirit of Vuk’uZenzele, we do not want a society of dependants, but responsible citizens who will realise their potential and patriotically utilise such for the betterment of South Africa.

Mgcinisihlalo, kanye nemalunga lahloniphekile, kuyintfokoto lenkhulu kutsi ngitfole litfuba lekuba yincenye yalenkhulumomphikiswano. Njengobe sicedza lelihlandla lePhalamende yesibili kantsi futsi sesikuhlanganisa nemcimbi wekugubha iminyaka lelishumi yenkhululeko, kubalulekile kutsi sikhulume ngaletinsita letiyincenye yekucedza buphuya kantsi futsi tiphindze tivule nematfuba emisebenti natakhiwako. (Translation of Siswati paragraph follows.)

[Chairperson and hon members, it is a great pleasure for me to have an opportunity to be part of this debate. As we approach the end of the second Parliament, a time which we intend to combine with the celebration of 10 years of independence, it is very important that we talk about these services that form part of poverty eradication, as they help in job creation when they are implemented.] On 11 November 2003, when addressing this august House, His Excellency President Mbeki said, and I quote:

The Expanded Public Works Programme is a nationwide programme that will draw significant numbers of the unemployed into productive employment, so that workers gain skills while they are gainfully employed and increase their capacity to earn an income once they leave the programme. The Expanded Public Works Programme is targeting one million unemployed people in the first five years.

This was the President outlining policy direction of Government on how and what pragmatic programmes are being put in place to deal with poverty and job creation at the same time. This has been translated into real budgetary items worth billions and billions of rand to ensure success of this programme through the relevant departments.

Today, I speak as a proud South African who participated in the ANC’s 51st national conference; proud that the resolutions taken at that conference are now being put into action as a people’s contract to fight unemployment and poverty. It is quite interesting, though, that the DA is now also talking about one million - they say real jobs, whereas they don’t have a real programme and are not running any budget to realise such.

The evolution from the Community-based Public Works Programme to the Expanded Public Works Programme is quite an informed one as it widens and broadens the net to deal with unemployment and poverty from various sectors. The hon Minister has adequately outlined, in terms of all the sectors and clusters, they are going to assist in dealing with poverty and also, on the other hand, creating job opportunities. I would not like to bore the House by repeating the well-said words of the hon Minister.

I must also comment on the fact that we were very heartened during the presentation of the department in the select committee by how the co- ordination is going to take place on the national level. This will involve a forum of directors-general of the affected or relevant departments, and will filter down to provincial levels and take on board the local government, as well as those linkages with what is happening in the Public Works sector under Nedlac as such.

Noko kufanele ngicindzetele, Sihlalo, kwekutsi kubaluleke kakhulu kangakanani kutsi tsine njengobe simele imiphakatsi lapha ePhalamende, kufanele kutsi lwati lesilutfolako kumatiko lehlukene lasebenta ngalemisebenti leyendlalekile yemiphakatsi sikhone kutsi silutfole ngekushesha, sitsi nase silutfolile bese silwendlulisela emiphakatsini yakitsi.

Kantsi futsi lokunye lokubalulekile kutsi njengobe sinalomsebenti wekutsi sibe liso lekufanele libuke encenyeni yekutsi lawo magumbi latsite lafanele nome ngabe asetifundzeni nome kubomasiphala ngabe lemisebenti lebhajethelwe bayenta ngendlela lefanele yini nekutsi futsi sibone kutsi iyafinyelela yini kulabo bantfu lekufanele ifinyelele kubo.

Ngitawusho, Mgcinisihlalo, kutsi bantfu bakitsi bayatigcabha ngetinsita labatentelwe nguHulumende we-ANC. Imigwaco yesikuntiyela beyingekho lokwa kadzeni. Lapha lapho ngihlala khona eNkomazi, umgwaco wesikuntiyela bewuphelela kulendzawo lekwakutsiwa yindzawo yalabamhlophe (white area). Nasewungena ngalapha ebantfwini bewuhamba nje utfucuta lutfuli lodvwa. Nyalo sewuyantjentjemuka nje ngemoto yakho. Netindleko tekutsenga tibiyo tetimoto setiyehla. Bantfu labaya etibhedlela abasakhahlateki nabagitjeliswe kuma-ambulensi ngobe akasahambi akhahlateka kulawa magebhugebu emigwaco.

Siyatibona netitolo tiyeta kancane kancane ngalemiklamo leyentiwa nguHulumende abambisene nelitiko lelingasilo lakaHulumende lesilibita ngekutsi, litiko langasense, (private sector). Bayatigcabha lapha eNkomazi Plaza, Mnumzane Raju, laba labasebenta eSpa, ngekutsi sebanemisebenti lengapheli netinsita setisedvutane.

Umuntfu akasasuki eMbuzini agibele ayewutsenga eNaspoti. Lemali labetawugibela ngayo sewuyakhona kutsi engete sinkhwa, nelubisi lwemntfwana, nashukela ekhaya. Loko kukhombisa kutsi kancane kancane imphilo yebantfu lapha eNingizimu Afrika iyagucuka.

Kubuhlungu kutsi labanye batfolakala balele kantsi nayi ingucuko iyachubeka. [Saphela sikhatsi.] [Tandla.] (Translation of Siswati paragraphs follows.)

I must, however, emphasise how important it is that we, as representatives of our communities here in Parliament, quickly grasp the information and knowledge that we gather about these widespread services from various departments so that we can pass it on to our constituencies.

The other very important issue is that because we have this responsibility of oversight in terms of the various sections, we must ensure that those services that have been budgeted for do reach the right people, those that must benefit from them, whether they are in provinces or municipalities.

I have to say that our people are now very proud of the services that have been delivered to them by the ANC-led Government. There were no tarred roads in the previous regime. In the area where I live, at Nkomazi, tarred roads were only in the so-called white area. When one proceeded to the black townships, one would be met by a cloud of dust on those roads. However, these days one just glides through in one’s car. Car parts have now become much cheaper. People who are transported by ambulance to hospital travel smoothly because there are no rugged roads anymore.

We also see shops slowly emerging there through the projects that the Government is implementing in partnership with the private sector. The people who are working at Nkomazi Plaza are very proud, Mr Raju, especially those who are working at the Spar, because they are permanently employed now and their services are within reach.

One no longer has to catch a bus all the way from Mbuzini to Nelspruit to go shopping. The bus fares that were paid can now be utilised for buying more bread, children’s milk and sugar for any homestead. This shows that slowly but surely a better life for all the people of South Africa is taking place.

What is painful is that some people are still sleeping while change is taking place. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Ndiyabulela, Mhalingaphambili. [Thank you, Chair.] The debate, broadly speaking, has been an encouraging one because it shows that our membership understands what the Government is all about. What was further encouraging was that there is now precise knowledge, even of what happens in the various sectors of government - the three arms of government. One of the speakers went on at length about what should happen in the community.

The programme we are talking about actually had its birth at Nedlac during the Growth and Development Summit which involved Government, labour, the communities and business. I want to assure those members who think that we are only dealing with short-term priorities, that once we talk in terms of a collective of initiatives, which also includes business, you definitely put sustainability into the pot. People forget, apart from what we are talking about here today, that there are other programmes of Government that are huge.

I know that there was a time when Port Elizabeth and Uitenhage were dying because people in the car manufacturing industry had decided to leave the country during the apartheid regime. However, today there is this hub of activity in that area. It is not just a revival, but also a process of moving forward. Who would have thought that today we would be thinking in terms of the big Port of Nxuga, which is employing so many people and which will actually form the development centre for most of the projects that will be taking place in the Eastern Cape. I am saying this so that we do not close our eyes to the broader economy. That is why, in my presentation, I actually said that we are creating a pathway, a road, which will lead from the second economy to the first economy, so that at some time in the future we will speak broadly about the economy of South Africa as a whole.

Because of what we found on the ground, there were times when we did not concentrate so much on those projects that would carry on for long periods of time. What do you do if you are in Mbazwana and have to travel 80 kilometres to Hluhluwe just to get an ID or to get a birth certificate? As that hon member was saying, we also had to put social cohesion programmes into the package so that we would have the type of infrastructure which would stop our people from having meetings under trees and our kids from doing their schooling under trees, and so forth.

This process has focused on creating jobs and, at the same time, ensuring that the right infrastructure is there for the people. We all know from our experience that if you do not have the proper infrastructure, you can never ever attack investors; hence this concentration on making sure that our country really spends a lot of money on putting the right infrastructure in place. Who would have thought that today I could say that I can move from Port Edward through Flagstaff, through Lusikisiki, through Port St Johns to Umtata on a tarred road, whereas prior to 1994 there were only little patches of tar and gravel. All I am saying is: Let us embrace this Expanded Public Works Programme, because it is our push and it is making sure that we carry the vast majority of our people forward through skilling them so that on their own they can become entrepreneurs, and that in the future they can be part and parcel of those participants in the greater economy of this country.

I must thank you for the participation and also for some of the lectures we got. Someone even gave us a clear definition of poverty. A number of my officials are here because they felt that this was a very important debate to listen to.

As we leave this House and do a little bit of talking to the people, it is clear, even with some of the other parties, that the issue of job creation is paramount. The only point of difference is how we deal with it. The only other point of difference is who will have the budget to make these promises, and are all going to turn dreams into a reality? Already we are cushioned by the budgetary allocations which were made at a time when it seemed that perhaps it was going to be difficult to make them. They were made right here in Parliament. They are going to make it possible for us to effectively say: ``We have a contract for the development of our people.’’ I thank you for the opportunity. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 16:14. ____


                        TUESDAY, 2 MARCH 2004


National Council of Provinces

  1. The Chairperson
 Report of Delegation to 7th Session  of  African,  Caribbean,  Pacific-
 European Union Joint Parliamentary Assembly, Addis Ababa, Ethiopia,  12
 to 19 February 2004:

 The 7th Session of the African, Caribbean, Pacific-European Union Joint
 Parliamentary Assembly (ACP-EU JPA) met in Addis Ababa,  Ethiopia  from
 16 to 19 February 2004. As usual, the joint  plenary  was  preceded  by
 meetings of the ACP and Joint Bureaus (of which South Africa is  now  a
 member), of the ACP plenary and also of the three  Standing  Committees
 on Political Affairs, on Economic Development, Finance and Trade and on
 Social Affairs and the Environment.

 The delegation consisted of Dr Rob Davies and Ms  Ntshadi  Tsheole.  We
 were accompanied by Mr Saul Pelle of the South African Embassy  to  the
 EU in Brussels  and  Mr  Mtutu  Masiza  of  Parliament's  International
 Relations Unit. Ahead of the JPA there was also a workshop on  Economic
 Partnership Agreements and  their  implications  for  the  Eastern  and
 Southern African region (of which Ethiopia, the host country, is part).
 This was an informal activity of the  Economic  Development  Committee,
 sponsored by the Friedrich Ebert Stiftung, at which Rob Davies made  an

 The 7th Session operated  according  to  the  new  rules  of  procedure
 adopted ahead of the 6th session. These provide for resolutions  to  be
 tabled via the Standing Committees with the  possibility  of  only  two
 "urgent resolutions" per session being tabled independently  on  topics
 agreed by the Joint Bureau. The motivation for this new procedure is to
 encourage the JPA to focus its attention on the common issues of ACP-EU
 relations, rather than the bilateral issues that have in the  past,  in
 practice, dominated JPA proceedings. It was agreed at the Joint  Bureau
 meeting held in Brussels in January that the "urgent resolutions" would
 be on "Cotton and other basic commodities: Problems encountered by  ACP
 countries" and "Damage caused by Cyclones in the Pacific, Indian  Ocean
 and Caribbean and the need for a rapid response to natural  disasters".
 This meant that the JPA proceedings were  largely  focused  on  generic
 rather than bilateral issues. Although the crisis  in  Haiti  was  also
 included on the agenda, the Joint  Bureau  agreed  to  an  exchange  of
 views, but no resolution. However, the discussion was  led  by  Caricom
 delegations, who argued in support of  the  Caricom  plan  calling  for
 dialogue,  but  rejecting  any  violent  overthrow  of   the   Aristide

 The  resolutions  emerging  from  the  Committees  were  on   "Conflict
 Resolution and Lasting Peace" (Political Affairs Committee);  "Economic
 Partnership Agreements"  (Economic  Affairs  Committee)  and  "Poverty,
 diseases and Reproductive health in ACP countries in the context of the
 ninth European Development Fund" (Social Affairs Committee). There  was
 a fair degree of consensus on the  first  and  the  third  reports  and
 resolutions, as well as on  the  two  urgent  resolutions.  There  was,
 however, a degree of disagreement on the EPA resolution. The resolution
 was adopted by the Committee with a majority made up by the ACP  voting
 together with the European PSE (socialist), Green and GUE (left) groups
 against  the  PPE  (conservative)  group.  The  PPE  indicated  in  the
 Committee that they would call  for  a  vote  in  plenary  by  separate
 houses, and would  vote  against  the  resolution  emanating  from  the
 Committee if it were put unamended to the plenary. As  the  PPE  has  a
 majority in the EU house, there was a possibility that this  resolution
 would be defeated, as was a resolution on the WTO  post-Cancun  at  the
 6th session in Rome. This led to a process of negotiation, in which our
 delegation participated at the request of the ACP Secretary General.  A
 compromise was eventually reached, which resulted in fudging clauses on
 additional funding to address restructuring and revenue losses  arising
 from the introduction of reciprocity, the  introduction  of  "Singapore
 issues" into EPA negotiations and trade in service negotiations in  the
 EPA context allowing for the retention of the right of ACP countries to
 maintain public services in key areas. Although the original clauses on
 these issues were significantly "watered down" in the  compromise,  the
 aim was to leave space for further debates. The debate on  this  topic,
 during which we took the floor, was attended by EU trade  commissioner,
 Pascal Lamy. In his input, the Commissioner spoke of "reinforcement  of
 regional integration" being "a heart of EPAs". Since the  regions  that
 will be negotiating EPAs, particularly in Eastern and Southern  Africa,
 do not correspond either with any existing Regional Economic  Community
 or the AU defined region, a major challenge of aligning the EPA process
 with regional and continental initiatives clearly exists.  Commissioner
 Lamy also spoke of reciprocity in trade being  introduced  through  the
 EPA process in a "progressively and harnessed  manner".  Clearly  there
 are many issues here; including the  extent  of  reciprocal  duty  free
 opening up of ACP countries' markets to EU imports,  the  length  of  a
 transition to reciprocity, preserving the  rights  of  Least  Developed
 Countries to non-reciprocal duty free access to the EU, and the funding
 of adjustment costs by ACP countries. All of  these  issues  have  been
 taken up by the ACP side, as the input from Mauritian Minister Cuttaree
 for the ACP Council made clear. Differences, however,  exist  on  these
 and other issues. A view beginning to  emerge  from  discussions  among
 parliamentarians in the Southern Africa group (which in the EPA context
 will be the five SACU countries plus Mozambique, Angola  and  Tanzania)
 is that the issue of reciprocity has already been settled in our region
 by the fact that the  bilateral  Trade,  Development  and  Co-operation
 Agreement with South Africa de facto extends reciprocity to other  SACU
 countries. With the EU having half promised to allow duty  free  access
 for all products from ACP countries involved in the  EPA  process,  and
 LDCs having this right on a non-reciprocal basis, the  Southern  Africa
 EPA  should  focus  largely  on  developmental  issues  and  non-tariff
 barriers in the EU market (subsidies and technical barriers to trade).

 The Economic Development Committee (on which we serve) will prepare its
 next report on the controversial issue of  "budgetising"  the  European
 Development Fund, which currently operates on the  basis  of  voluntary
 contributions by EU member states. In the debate  on  this  issue,  the
 development  commissioner,   Paul   Nielson,   spoke   in   favour   of
 budgetisation (i.e. including EDF  funding  in  the  European  budget),
 arguing this was the best way to ensure funding for development in  ACP
 countries,  particularly  with  EU  enlargement  on  the  horizon.   He
 declined, however, to offer an assurance that no ACP country  would  be
 worse off after budgetisation, saying that the focus of funding was now
 on performance, and that funds would not be disbursed to countries that
 could not perform.

 The JPA also received a short input on AU  processes  from  the  Deputy
 Chairperson of the AU Commission, Mr Patrick Mazimhaka. While there was
 general support for AU programmes from the floor,  it  became  apparent
 during this debate that there is an  urgent  need  to  promote  greater
 alignment between the Cotonou and the AU processes.

 As usual workshops were held  on  issues  of  importance  to  the  host
 country - Food Security in Ethiopia, Health and Education  and  Private
 Sector Development. We participated in the first  two,  which  involved
 visits to water security projects and  programmes  for  sufferers  from
 HIV/Aids. These gave a vivid  impression  of  the  enormous  challenges
 facing Ethiopia, but also of the efforts being made  to  address  them.
 For  example,  Ethiopia  is  about  to  introduce  an   anti-retroviral

 A feature of the JPA session was  that  Ethiopian  Prime  Minister,  Mr
 Meles Zenawi, made himself available for an hour's Q and A session with
 participants, and later for a  similar  ninety-minute  engagement  with
 members of the Joint Bureau. These covered  a  wide  range  of  themes,
 including the border dispute with Eritrea. The Eritrean delegation  did
 not participate in the 7th JPA, after objecting to the venue.  The  Co-
 Presidents, however, visited Eritrea ahead of the JPA. On  this  issue,
 the Prime Minister essentially argued that  some  of  the  UN  Boundary
 Commission's recommendations were "irrational" as they divided  houses,
 churches, villages and roads. He said that under normal  circumstances,
 his country could probably have lived with them,  but  that  there  was
 serious tension in the relationship with  Eritrea  and  that,  in  this
 context, acceptance could fuel such tensions. He  said,  however,  that
 Ethiopia had renounced war as an option in resolving  this  issue,  and
 was looking for a process of dialogue similar to that  between  Nigeria
 and Cameroon on their border issues.

 The ACP Bureau, of which we are now members, recommended that  we  take
 the vacant position of Co-Vice President for Human Rights. We accepted,
 after pointing to the uncertainties  arising  from  our  election.  The
 position is essentially awarded  to  our  delegation  and  not  to  any
 individual and will be held by whoever leads our delegation to the  JPA
 after our elections. This appointment came too late for us to engage in
 ACP structures on a report drafted only by the EU Co-Vice President. In
 the Joint Bureau meeting, Rob Davies offered a number  of  comments  on
 this, suggesting that there was a need  for  greater  balance  through,
 inter alia, addressing more substantially issues  in  the  EU  such  as
 immigration policy, racism and the rise of far right populism and their
 impact on ACP relations.

 The Joint Bureau, unfortunately, did not have time for any  substantial
 discussion of the  workings  of  the  new  committee-based  system.  In
 numerous discussions, we indicated our view that it  was  necessary  to
 strengthen  the  Committees'  work  in  the   direction   of   creating
 opportunities for  ongoing  oversight  of  the  EPA  processes,  public
 hearings and the receiving of reports on e.g. impact studies. The Joint
 Bureau did,  however,  decide  that  reports  from  the  Commission  on
 implementation of resolutions (dealt with up to now  in  a  perfunctory
 manner in plenary) should be referred to relevant Committees  for  more
 substantial processing. All of this may well require making  more  time
 available for Committee meetings.

 The 7th JPA is the last that will be held before  EU  enlargement  (May
 1st) and the European Parliamentary elections  in  June.  A  number  of
 regular participants in JPA sessions will not be returning,  and  there
 is much uncertainty about the political complexion of the new  European
 parliament. Generally, however, it is expected  that  enlargement  will
 bring in a number of countries with little experience of,  and  perhaps
 limited interest in, matters of ACP co-operation and that there will be
 major challenges to raise the profile of these issues.

 The next Bureau and Committee meetings have been tentatively  scheduled
 to  begin  on  the  5th  October  in  Brussels,  and  the   8th   Joint
 Parliamentary Assembly to take place in The Hague, Netherlands from  22
 to 25 November 2004.

 Rob Davies   Ntshadi Tsheole

National Council of Provinces

  1. Report of the Select Committee on Finance on the Drought Relief Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B 5 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 77), dated 1 March 2004:

    The Select Committee on Finance, having considered the subject of the Drought Relief Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B 5 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 77), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

                     WEDNESDAY, 3 MARCH 2004


National Council of Provinces

  1. Report of the Select Committee on Finance on the Division of Revenue Bill [B 4B - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 76), dated 3 March 2004:

    The Select Committee on Finance, having considered the subject of the Division of Revenue Bill [B 4B - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 76), referred to it, reports the Bill without amendment.

    The Committee also wishes to point out that in Clause 5, on page 5, in line 36, “2003/04” should read “2004/05”.

  2. Report of the Select Committee on Finance on the Division of Revenue Bill for 2004/05, dated 3 March 2004:

Insert - 1ATC0303e

  1. Report of the Select Committee on Local Government and Administration on the Local Government: Municipal Property Rates Bill [B 19B - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 3 March 2004:

    The Select Committee on Local Government and Administration, having considered the subject of the Local Government: Municipal Property Rates Bill [B 19B - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

    The Committee further reports, as follows:

        Having considered various pertinent Clauses of the  Bill,  the
        Committee would have liked to propose amendments to Clauses 17
        and  18.  However,  it  is  acknowledged  that  the  envisaged
        amendments would require further investigation and  assessment
        before a specific proposal can  be  formulated.  Consequently,
        the Department of Provincial and Local Government is requested
        to investigate and assess the appropriateness of the threshold
        amount of R15 000 referred to in Clause 17(1)(h), with a  view
        to increasing it, and report back within  12  months  on  what
        should be the appropriate amount. In  view  thereof  that  the
        said exclusion of R15 000 may be reversed in terms  of  Clause
        18, the Department should also consider an amendment to Clause
        18 that will omit the reference to paragraphs (g) and  (h)  of
        Clause 17(1).  It  would  also  be  appropriate  for  such  an
        amendment to be accompanied by an amendment to Clause 84  that
        will  make  provision  for  regulations  to   be   tabled   in
        In respect of Clause 24(2)(b), the Committee  recommends  that
        the Department, by way of  guidelines,  provide  the  criteria
        that will assist municipalities to make a proper choice as  to
        the applicability of subparagraph (i) or  (ii),  depending  on
        the circumstances.  These  guidelines  should  be  mindful  of
        relevant social issues.
  2. Second Report of Ad Hoc Committee on Intervention in the Lekwa Teemane Local Municipality:

INSERT - Lekwa0303.doc

 Report to be considered.