National Council of Provinces - 12 February 2004
THURSDAY, 12 FEBRUARY 2004 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:04.
The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, ek sal by die volgende sitting van die Raad voorstel:
Dat die Raad -
(1) kennis neem -
(a) van die skynheilige optrede van die DA, en veral die agb DA
leier, Tony Leon, teenoor die Afrikaanse gemeenskap;
(b) dat met die totstandkoming van die DA, mnr Leon 'n raadsaal in
sy koukuskamer na die voormalige staatspresident van Suid-Afrika
en Nobelpryswenner, mnr F W de Klerk, vernoem het, en by die
geleentheid as sy ``imbongi'' opgetree het;
(c) dat noudat dié Afrikaner- en wêreld-ikoon sy steun aan die Nuwe
NP en sy samewerking met die ANC gee, Mnr Leon omswaai en mnr De
Klerk probeer swartsmeer en verkleineer; en
(d) dat die DA verder gaan en mnr Leon as 'n plaasvervanger van mnr
De Klerk en as 'n ware Afrikaner-ikoon voorstel;
(2) meen die oppervlakkigheid waarmee die DA met die geestesgoedere van Suid-Afrikaners en die Afrikaanse gemeenskap handel, skreiend is - mnr Leon se paar woorde in Afrikaans flous nie die Afrikaanse gemeenskap nie;
(3) kennis neem daarvan dat dit daarom is dat die foto van mnr De Klerk wat vir die DA geleen was, uit die DA-koukuskamer verwyder is - dit pryk nou in ‘n museum in Pretoria waar ware Suid-Afrikaners en die wêreld met waardering daarna kan kyk, en waar dit vir die nageslag bewaar word; en
(4) van mening is dat Suid-Afrika beter verdien as hierdie skynheiligheid en dit by die NNP kan kry. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:
That the Council -
(1) notes -
(a) the sanctimonious actions of the DA, and of the DA leader, Mr
Tony Leon, in particular, towards the Afrikaans community;
(b) that with the realisation of the DA, Mr Leon named a council
chamber in his caucus room after the former State President of
South Africa and Nobel Prize winner, Mr F W de Klerk, and acted
as his ``imbongi'' at this occasion;
(c) that now that this Afrikaner and world icon is giving his
support to the NNP and his co-operation to the ANC, Mr Leon
turned and is trying to denigrate and humiliate Mr De Klerk; and
(d) that the DA goes further by trying to portray Mr Leon as a
substitute for Mr De Klerk and as a true Afrikaner icon;
(2) is of the opinion that the superficial manner in which the DA deals with the spiritual assets of South Africans and the Afrikaans community is shameless - Mr Leon’s few words in Afrikaans do not fool the Afrikaans community;
(3) notes that it is for this reason that the photo of Mr De Klerk that was lent to the DA was removed from the DA’s caucus room - it now graces a museum in Pretoria where true South Africans, and the world, can appreciate it, and where it is preserved for future generations; and
(4) is of the opinion that South Africa deserves better than this hypocrisy and can get it from the NNP.]
RADICAL TRANSFORMATION OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that under the ANC South Africa’s criminal justice system has undergone a radical transformation during the last decade, effectively ending political violence, dealing with urban and right- wing terror and taking important steps to stabilise crime;
(2) also notes that progress in the integration of our justice system has resulted in faster finalisation of cases, an improvement in the quality of dockets and an increase in conviction rates;
(3) notes further that community policing has been made more effective through the establishment of community police forums, and that this has improved the relationship and trust between the police and communities;
(4) acknowledges that as a result of the number of measures that have been put in place to regulate the ownership of firearms, over 80 000 firearms have been destroyed so far;
(5) further acknowledges the measures that have been taken to relieve prison overcrowding, such as the construction of new prisons, the introduction of alternative sentences and the promotion of correctional supervision;
(6) notes the targeted successes of specialist units such as the Scorpions and the Asset Forfeiture Unit against organised crime syndicates;
(7) also notes that strategic partnerships …
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon member, your time has expired. Your motion will now become a notice of motion and will be printed in full on the next Order Paper.
OPENING OF PROVINCIAL LEGISLATURES
(Draft Resolution) Mr G A LUCAS: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) congratulates the Western Cape and Gauteng on the successful opening of their provincial legislatures;
(2) notes that the legislatures of Limpopo and Mpumalanga are scheduled to open today while the Eastern Cape, Free State and North West will officially open tomorrow, followed by the Northern Cape on 20 February;
(3) extends its best wishes to all provincial legislatures as they continue in their efforts to improve the quality of life of their citizens, and wishes all premiers who are concluding their last terms all the best in the future.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Is there any objection to that motion? Yes, hon Windvoël?
Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: Thank you, hon Chairperson. It is just a minor amendment. The Mpumalanga legislature is officially opening tomorrow.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: There is an amendment. Do you accept the amendment, Mr Lucas? All right. Is there any objection to that motion? No objection.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
LABELLING OF GM FOODS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr K D S DURR: Madam Chair, I move without notice:
That the House -
(1) notes -
(a) the new labelling regulations that apply to GM foods in South
Africa;
(b) that these regulations do not require mandatory labelling of GM
foods;
(c) that the regulations require labelling only where there is a
``significant difference'' in certain prescribed circumstances,
but there are no GM foods currently in South Africa that fall
within this scope; and
(d) that South Africa has been growing GM white maize since 2001, a
staple food for the majority of South Africa's citizens;
(2) is of the opinion that -
(a) the labelling regulations undermine the rights of the majority
of the people in South Africa to know what they are consuming
and to exercise their rights of free choice whether or not to
buy GM foods on sale;
(b) all GM food and feed which consist of, or contain or are
produced from genetically modified organisms should be labelled
in order to inform the consumers and farmers about the exact
nature and characteristics of the food or feed, so that they can
make informed choices; and
(c) the list of potential allergens listed in the annex to the
regulations is restricted and does not take into account
allergies that tourists to South Africa may have - this could
have a detrimental effect on the South African tourism industry;
and
(3) requests the Government to urgently review the regulations.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Is there any objection to the motion?
An HON MEMBER: Chairperson, seeing that that is quite a substantial motion, I think I will object and let it be a notice of motion.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: There is an objection. The motion will, therefore, become a notice of motion.
HORRIFIC MURDER IN NORTH WEST
(Draft Resolution)
Rev M CHABAKU: I wish to move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) expresses its shock, horror and indignation -
(a) at the reported death of a son of the soil from North West who
it is alleged was severely beaten up by a farmer with the
assistance of three alleged accomplices, and was thereafter tied
up and driven 15 km, only to be thrown over the fence of a lion
enclosure at Hoedspruit, Limpopo; and
(b) that at the end of this decade, during which we have been
seeking to uphold human rights and the rule of law, such
behaviour is still possible by sadistic and cannibalistic people
who delight in inflicting such a painful death;
(2) wonders for how long such heartless, cruel persons will enjoy their human rights and the leniency of the process of justice that is often not afforded the victims of injustice;
(3) expresses its horror at the thought that Nelson Shisane, only 38 years old, had to die in such a cruel, painful and horrific way - he saw a lion coming to him without escape and his body was torn to bits before he was dragged into the bush;
(4) expresses its sorrow and extends its condolences to his family, friends and neighbours;
(5) realises that there are still many of our people who are maimed and tortured out of sight and without publicity, and that there are still many such heartless people in many of the provinces; and
(6) firmly believes that we need to expose and report them and not support their ventures, clubs or farms.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Is there any objection to the motion? Hon van Niekerk?
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I do not think we can take a decision …
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Is there an objection? Hon members, could I ask you not to motivate, but to indicate. Is there an objection?
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Because it is sub judice, yes.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: There is an objection. Therefore, the motion will become a notice of motion. And I will again repeat that where there is a court case pending, members of Parliament must be wise to the sub judice rule.
PRECEDENCE TO FIFTH ORDER
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That, after the First Order, precedence be given to the Fifth Order.
I have consulted with all the Party Whips and they do not have problems with that. Thank you.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
PROVISIONS REGARDING LANGUAGE IN SECTION 6 OF CONSTITUTION
(Draft Resolution)
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) takes note of the constitutional provisions in section 6 of the Constitution, with special reference to subsections (2) and (4):
``(2) Recognising the historically diminished use and status of
the indigenous languages of our people, the state must take
practical and positive measures to elevate the status and
advance the use of these languages.''
``(4) The national government and provincial governments, by
legislative and other measures, must regulate and monitor
their use of official languages. Without detracting from the
provisions of subsection (2) all official languages must
enjoy parity of esteem and must be treated equitably.'';
(2) requests the nine provincial legislatures to inform the Council on their progress in respect of adherence to the above.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
DA PROPAGANDA REGARDING FARMERS
(Draft Resolution)
Mnr P A MATTHEE: Voorsitter, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:
Dat die Raad -
(1) sy misnoeë uitspreek oor die gevaarlike, vals en roekelose propaganda van die DA met die strekking dat die ANC, en by noodwendige implikasie daarom die ANC-beheerde Regering, nie omgee vir landbouers nie, en dat hulle daarom op hulself aangewys is vir hul veiligheid;
(2) van mening is dat -
(a) hierdie vals propaganda, indien geglo deur potensiële
plaasaanvallers, sal lei tot meer plaasaanvalle, aangesien dit
potensiële plaasaanvallers onder die indruk sal bring dat daar
nie effektief teen hulle opgetree sal word deur die staatsorgane
verantwoordelik vir die voorkoming en bekamping van misdaad nie;
(b) indien dié propaganda geglo word, dit ook kan lei tot die neem
van die reg in eie hande deur landbouers; en
(c) dié propoganda ook sal lei tot die polarisasie van gemeenskappe;
en
(3) daarom word die DA versoek om hulle te weerhou van sodanige vals, roekelose en gevaarlike propaganda. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution to follows).
[Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) expresses its displeasure at the dangerous, deceitful and reckless propaganda of the DA to the effect that the ANC, and by inevitable implication therefore the ANC-controlled Government, does not care about agrarians and that they are therefore dependent on themselves for their security;
(2) is of the opinion that -
(a) this deceitful propaganda, if believed by potential farm
attackers, will lead to more farm attacks because potential farm
attackers will gain the impression that no effective action will
be taken against them by the organs of state responsible for the
prevention and combating of crime;
(b) if this propaganda gains credit, it can also lead to agrarians
taking the law into their own hands; and
(c) this propaganda will also lead to the polarisation of different
communities; and
(3) therefore requests the DA to refrain from such deceitful, reckless and dangerous propaganda.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Is there any objection to that motion? There is an objection. The motion will, therefore, become a notice of motion.
TELECOMMUNICATIONS AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
Mrs C NKUNA: Thank you, hon Chairperson and hon colleagues. This is a statement about the Telecommunications Amendment Bill as agreed at committee level. The object of the Telecommunications Amendment Bill before the House is to amend the Telecommunications Act of 1996, so as to give powers and duties to certain categories of operators for the purposes of interconnection and facilities leasing, and to provide for matters related to this.
In other words, the Bill seeks to amend sections 43 and 44 of the principal Act by defining certain operators as public operators for the purposes of interconnection and facilities leasing guidelines. The intended operators include Sentech, the second national operator, public switched telecommunication services licences, cellular mobile licences and national long-distance licences.
The ANC wholeheartedly supports the definition of Sentech as a public operator. This will enable Sentech to lease facilities from Telkom on a wholesale basis, instead of on a retail basis, for purposes of both its carrier licence and its multimedia services licences. This will result in a significant change for end users. In our new environment of managed liberalisation in the telecommunications sector, this will level the playing field and contribute to competitive fairness for operators who provide telecommunication services to the public. In the long run, this will benefit consumers who can eventually look forward to more and better services and lower prices. The ANC supports this Bill.
Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF AD HOC COMMITTEE ON INTERVENTION IN THE QAUKENI LOCAL MUNICIPALITY IN TERMS OF SECTION 139(1)(B) OF THE CONSTITUTION - ANNUAL REPORT
Mr G NKWINTI (Eastern Cape): Thank you, Chairperson and hon members of the House. I must immediately thank the House, including yourself in particular, for inviting us here, so that we could make a few comments on the steps taken in the municipality in question. Secondly, we would also like to thank this House for responding very promptly to the letter sent to it, in which we notified them of the steps that had been taken.
On 23 December 2003 I wrote a letter to the speaker of the Qaukeni local municipality, in which I notified him that in terms of the mandate that I have from the executive council of the province, I intended intervening in the affairs of the municipality, in terms of section 139 of the Constitution.
In this letter, I then requested the speaker to convene a meeting of members of the council of the Qaukeni local municipality, so that I could be able to then formally notify the council of this decision. The council indeed convened on 30 December 2003, at which meeting I then set out the intentions that I had as a mandate from the executive council.
Chairperson, in the second last paragraph of the letter that I wrote, it is said that I hope the Speaker and the councillors affected will co-operate and accept this suspension as a sincere and positive attempt to restore proper administration, effective political management and the rule of law, and restore an environment which will enable their council to once more fulfil its legislative and executive responsibilities, and for the level of service delivery that the people of Qaukeni both desire and deserve to be realised.
That really explains the thinking behind the letter and the struggle that we had before we intervened in the affairs of this municipality. It was a very sincere and positive attempt to restore the proper administration and political management, as well as the rule of law, which had broken down. The council accepted that decision. I then wrote to the council and notified the council that we had taken these steps in terms of section 139 of the Constitution. I need not go back to it and read them here. It was indeed not an easy decision. We worked very hard to ensure that we put in place an intervention strategy that would ensure that we restore this proper administration, political management and the rule of law, as quickly as possible, so that we can withdraw from the municipality. We are also mindful of the fact that this municipality has had a long history of conflict. There have always been two conflicting parties and the conflict between the two, in our view, has come to a point where they are irreconcilable.
My report to the executive council of the province, which was followed by assessment by members of the council led by the premier, came to one conclusion: Indeed, there was a need for an intervention, a much more drastic intervention. At the beginning of 2003, around January, the executive council took a decision that we should intervene and dissolve the municipality council. Our view, having listened to advice from senior counsel and the state law advisers, was that in the sequence of things that would be inappropriate. Therefore we needed to step back and intervene in terms of section 139 of the Constitution.
We heeded that advice from the state law advisers and set off to put together a comprehensive strategy. We were mindful of the fact that, having been involved in the discussions and the interactions, we needed to have political support to manage that intervention, so that we did not act subjectively, given the history of disappointments and frustrations in interacting with the municipality.
We put in place a political support team that consists of the MEC for safety and liaison in the province, the chairperson of Salga, and the executive mayor of the O R Tambo district municipality. The Qaukeni municipality is in the jurisdictional area of the O R Tambo district municipality. They are the members of the political team that is supporting me in my capacity as MEC for local government.
In so far as the administrator is concerned, we also thought that we have to learn from the structures Act. The structures Act, in our view, provides guidance in terms of how we should intervene. We may be wrong here. We thought that we should learn from the structures Act, which then establishes a mayor with committees around the mayor, so that the mayor could get the necessary strategic support.
Having learnt from the structures Act, we then decided to put in place a strategic support team to the administrator so that he would not be taking decisions, perhaps too subjectively, under these circumstances. It is a tough situation. We thought we needed to have this kind of environment which would provide strategic support and assist the administrator to think carefully and properly about whatever steps needed to be taken.
In that regard, we thought that we should put in place a multidisciplinary team of people to support the administrator. We have the CEO of Salga in the Eastern Cape, Adv Graham Richards; we have the director of the special investigative unit in the province, Adv Visagie; we had commissioner Lando of the SA Police Service who later withdrew and who was replaced by a chief director from the department of safety and liaison in the provincial government, Simon Meyer. We also have Messrs Wakhabe and Qhithi from the O R Tambo district municipality and senior directors of the senior professional staff in the department of local government in the province. The appointment by us of Messrs Wakabhe and Qhithi was a strategic move on our part, because Mr Qhithi is a municipal manager and Mr Wakhabe is in charge of the Indhinga Development Agency of the district municipality, responsible for development. Both of them are very important, particularly in the post-intervention period which we need to have the municipality mentored. We cannot do that. We do not have the capacity as a provincial department to do so. We thought it wise to have these officials as part of the strategic support team.
At the operational level we have a team of personnel from the O R Tambo district municipality as well as the department to support the operations of the municipality. It was necessary because at the beginning there was no co-operation whatsoever, particularly from senior management of the staff of the municipality. Up to now the director of finance of the municipality has not been at work at all since the intervention. He has reportedly been sick at the beginning and a couple of others behaved in the same way.
The municipal manager of the Qaukeni local municipality is out on bail, having been arrested following shootings which took place there. So he is, in a sense, implicated because we do not know what the outcome of that case is going to be.
I wish to repeat in this august House here that it was not easy to intervene in this municipality. I can also say that when we intervened there was a major complaint from the community. We did a lot of work there before the intervention. The main complaint came from other stakeholders and it was that we took too long to intervene. Really, it hurts to hear them say that. It is true but the fact of the matter is that, essentially, we do not want to intervene in the affairs of municipalities. We did not do it lightly. We are persuading this House to support us. Thank you, Madam Chairperson. [Applause.]
Ms P C P MAJODINA: Chairperson, this ad hoc committee was established as per Rule 161(a) in order to make an intervention under section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution. We wish to report to this House as follows: the Qaukeni municipality has been involved in a long, drawn-out political dispute that the conflicting parties have, from the outset, attempted to resolve by means of court action.
This has had significant financial implications and is in clear violation of sections 41(1)(h), 41(2) and 41(3) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, Act 108 of 1996. On a number of occasions the MEC responsible for local government affairs had written to the Qaukeni council, met with the council and drawn its attention to the concerns that the various stakeholders had raised about the imminent collapse of administration, political management and the rule of law within this municipality.
A forensic audit was conducted by the Auditor-General on behalf of the department. The report, which contains specific recommendations, was submitted to the municipal manager for action on 16 April 2003. However, for various reasons, the municipal manager refused to take action on the recommendations. Consequently, the Qaukeni council has now reached a stage where it is entirely unable to effectively fulfil any of its legislative and executive obligations in terms of the Constitution and other applicable legislation, as referred to in the Municipal Structures Act. As a result, the MEC for local government affairs launched an intervention in this municipality on 30 December 2003. The terms of the intervention were that on 30 December 2003 the MEC launched an intervention in this municipality. On 29 January the MEC submitted a notice to the National Council of Provinces to approve the intervention in compliance with section 139(2)(a) of the Constitution. Approval of this intervention is sought in order to implement a strategy which focuses on the political strategy and operational areas, as the MEC has already indicated.
Action by the department to remedy the situation was that the department undertook various actions at political, strategic and operational levels in an attempt to restore order in this municipality. At a political level, the department developed a support programme, in terms of section 154 of the Constitution, to assist the municipality. At a strategic level, the MEC suspended the municipal council and appointed an administrator. A strategic support team was established to assist this administrator. At an operational level, the administrator suspended the municipal manager and appointed an acting municipal manager. Our visit, then, to Qaukeni on 8 to 10 February was undertaken because we wanted to establish whether there has been compliance with the provisions of section 139 of the Constitution; whether the prevailing circumstances in the municipality warrant the intervention; and, whether there are any measures other than an intervention that would have achieved the desired effect.
During the period of our visit, we met with various stakeholders that included the MEC for local government; O R Tambo District Municipality Executive Mayor - uMama uZoleka Capa; the SA Local Government Association led by the chairperson - Sakhumzi Somyo; the Eastern Cape strategic support team led by the administrator; the traditional leaders - including the representatives of King Sigcau; religious leaders; the ANC Youth League and members of the community. We later visited the Qaukeni Great Place and met uMaNdlunkulu [the queen].
Political instability in Qaukeni municipality started in June 2002 when the democratically elected mayor, Mr Ntsubane, and the speaker, Mr Ngozi, were ousted by the council and replaced by the new mayor, Mrs Laleni, and the new speaker, Mr Nabile. Mr Ntsubane and Mr Ngozi moved an application in the High Court to declare the decision of the council to oust them as invalid. The High Court ordered that Mr Ntsubane and Mr Ngozi be reinstated. Mrs Laleni and others applied for leave to appeal to the Supreme Court but failed to prosecute the appeal within the prescribed period. Despite the judgment, Mrs Laleni and others failed to comply with the court order.
In December 2003 there were shootings at the municipality offices and as a result municipal offices were closed. All ordinary services were stalled during this period. The department tried to resolve the matter by developing a management support programme. This programme assisted the municipality, amongst others, in areas of budget formulation, asset management, human resources and governance. The municipal manager did not comply with the support programme.
As far as service delivery is concerned, before the intervention there was some form of service delivery in the municipality. However, for approximately 22 LED projects, only one person signed off cheques and paid service providers. The Special Investigating Unit, which was appointed as part of the strategic team assisted by the administrator, has been tasked with conducting an investigation into irregularities in the LED projects to ascertain whether the R294 000 spent on the 22 projects is commensurate with the job done thus far.
The municipality did not have any procurement policy in place to ensure compliance with national standards. This resulted in a practice of corruption in the form of kickbacks. The Special Investigating Unit, or SIU, is investigating such allegations. Despite the problems, the municipality remained unwilling to accept guidance from the district municipality in the application of its equitable share.
There was a lot of unauthorised expenditure. The main aspect of unauthorised expenditure relates to the access of the political office bearers to municipal funds which were used to conduct their court actions. After mayor Ntsubane was ousted, approximately R800 000 was put aside in the budget for legal costs. The money was wasted on court cases with regard to which the MEC had advised the Laleni group not to take court action as their action was not likely to succeed.
Regarding the lack of standing rules, it has been reported that many of the municipality’s problems have been aggravated by a lack of standing rules to govern the council. The municipality does not have proper tendering procedures.
The municipality adopted the IDP in 2002, which was reviewed in 2003. Although the plan is up for its annual review in 2004, the inherent limitations caused by the intervention process will mean that the task team will have to apply to the MEC to waive this review. Budgeting for IDPs in 2004 will also likely be an internal process, as the municipality will not be in a position to submit documents to the National Treasury.
Coming to staff issues, there have been allegations of nepotism and corruption in appointing staff. Councillors influence management on the appointment of staff and as a result the morale of staff is very low. There were two sets of staff members running parallel in the office - one for the ex-mayor and the other for the current mayor.
As far as public participation is concerned, the MEC has gone to great lengths to ensure public participation in the intervention process. When the administrator was appointed, the MEC called a public meeting to announce the appointment as well as the terms of reference for delivery by the administrator. Furthermore, when the audit investigative report was eventually tabled and deliberated upon by the strategic task team on 26 January 2004, it was dealt with in a public meeting where all stakeholders were present, including the King of Pondoland. The MEC also engaged Salga extensively on this matter. A great deal of progress has been effected by the administrator. The municipal manager has been suspended and charges have been laid against him. All municipal vehicles have been returned, except the one that is still being held by mayor Laleni. All keys and locks of all doors at the municipal buildings both in Flagstaff and in Lusikisiki have been changed. There is a business plan that has been submitted to the department on how to deal with matters.
Regarding the response to this intervention, all stakeholders and representatives of the ad hoc committee were in agreement that the intervention was necessary. The community believes that intervention will bring normality within the municipality and improve service delivery. However, the community has expressed the feeling that the intervention should not be the end of the process but should be followed by investigations. Anyone who is found guilty of any irregularities should be accountable.
On the resolutions of the committee, based on the information we gathered during the fact-finding mission, the ad hoc committee is of the opinion that the intervention at Qaukeni municipality was not only necessary but also long overdue. The committee is satisfied that the provincial government had exhausted all other avenues prescribed by the Constitution and other legislation before launching the intervention. And, it is of the opinion that intervention through suspension of the council was the only reasonable step.
The committee thus recommends that the intervention by the Eastern Cape government in the Qaukeni municipality be approved by this august House; that the office of the MEC submit a monthly report to the National Council of Provinces in order to enable the NCOP to monitor the intervention regularly - these monthly reports should focus on terms of reference for the intervention, as well as areas of concern raised by the forensic investigation report; and, that the community be kept abreast of progress made by the task team through monthly reports and regular interaction between the municipality and the community. A proper communication channel should be established to facilitate this interaction. I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That concludes the debate. I wish to proceed to put the question. But, before we proceed to vote on that, we will ring the bells in order to allow all delegation heads to be present in the Chamber.
We shall now proceed, hon members. I’m not certain why we have almost 50% of the permanent delegates of the Council absent from the Chamber. I don’t quite understand because I don’t think that we have assigned a large number to participate in provincial meetings. I know that there are some sittings of provincial legislatures, but I’m not sure whether they require everyone to be away.
We shall proceed therefore to put the question with respect to Order No 5. The question is that the report be adopted. This decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution. I note that all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. In accordance with Rule 71, I shall allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they wish to do so. Is there any province wishing to make a declaration of vote? There is none. We proceed therefore to voting on the question. This will be done in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads should indicate whether they vote in favour, against or abstain from voting. The Eastern Cape?
Ms B N DLULANE: I-Eastern Cape iyayamkela lengxelo. [The Eastern Cape supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The Free State?
Mr T S SETONA: Free State supports.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng? Ms D M RAMODIBE: Gauteng supports.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?
Ms B THOMSON: Siyavumelana. [We support.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Limpopo?
Ms C NKUNA: Limpopo yaseketela. [Limpopo supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?
Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Ke a rona. [We support.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Northern Cape?
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Northern Cape supports.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: North West?
Rev P MOATSHE: Re a e tlatsa. [We support.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Western Cape?
Mr F ADAMS: Wes-Kaap ondersteun. [Western Cape supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: All provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted. [Applause.] Might I also, on behalf of the House, thank the members who were part of that ad hoc committee for working with such haste and yet producing a report that does encompass the range of issues that they confronted. I thank the hon members for their hard work.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS ON PROTOCOL ON THE AMENDMENTS TO THE CONSTITUTIVE ACT OF THE AFRICAN UNION
Dr E A CONROY: Hon Chairperson and hon members of the House, during the first session of the assembly of the African Union in Durban in July 2002, a number of amendments to the Constitutive Act of the African Union were proposed. However, and in view of the required procedures described in the Constitutive Act regarding amendments, the proposed amendments were only discussed at three meetings which took place after the July meeting. These meetings culminated in the first extraordinary session of the Assembly of the Heads of State and Government of the African Union, which took place in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, on 2 February 2003.
The Assembly considered and endorsed recommendations made at the preceding three meetings. In order to give effect to the amendments, the AU commission has drafted a protocol, presented to the heads of state and government during the July 2003 Maputo summit, in which the amendments are contained. The protocol must now be ratified by a simple majority of member states in order to give effect to the amended Constitutive Act.
At the inaugural summit in Durban it was therefore decided that proposals for amendments would be submitted to the interim commission of the Union, which would, in turn, distribute them to member states for consideration in accordance with the procedure outlined in article 32 of the Constitutive Act. In addition, the assembly decided that in accordance with the procedure set out in article 32, these amendments would be considered at the extraordinary assembly within six months.
Member states proposing amendments included Libya, Senegal, Nigeria, South Africa, Mozambique, Tanzania and Côte d’Ivoire. The proposals for amendment focused on two main themes, namely the strengthening and technical cleanup of the Constitutive Act, which are proposals received from Nigeria, South Africa, Mozambique, Tanzania and Côte d’Ivoire; and enhancing the continental integration process towards the early establishment of a United States of Africa or a Federation of African States by the Libyan and Senegalese proposals.
The first extraordinary session of the executive council held in Tripoli from 9 to 10 December 2002 was convened to consider the proposed amendments. Unresolved issues were referred to a ministerial committee which met in Sun City from 20 to 21 January 2003 and submitted its report to the second extraordinary executive council meeting held on 1 February 2003, prior to the extraordinary session of the assembly. The outcome of the ad hoc ministerial committee meeting was satisfactory in maintaining momentum regarding technical changes to the Constitutive Act, rather than changing the nature of the union. Consensus was reached on all issues.
During the first session of the extraordinary assembly, it was apparent that the principles established by the first extraordinary executive council had become entrenched, namely that amendments should focus on clarifying the Constitutive Act, that they should ease the implementation thereof and the integration of the union is at an early stage and the Constitutive Act should reflect this. The assembly upheld all the proposals emanating from the two executive council meetings, including a satisfactory solution to the issue of working and official languages. The amendments as a whole reflect the South African approach of maintaining the integrity of the Constitutive Act, while accommodating different perspectives.
The amendment as endorsed by the heads of state and government have been contained in the protocol on the amendments to the Constitutive Act, which will have to be ratified in order to give effect to the amendment as part of the revised Constitutive Act. In view of the fact that the changes to the Constitutive Act were technical in nature, rather than changing the vision of the African Union, no implications are foreseen which South Africa has not already subscribed to by joining the African Union and ratifying its Constitutive Act.
The amendments have resulted in a more gender-sensitive document which gives official recognition to the Peace and Security Council of the African Union, includes the importance of the African diaspora to the African Union and clarifies a number of procedural matters, including the use of official and technical languages. The protocol will be binding on the Republic upon approval by both Houses of the South African Parliament.
On behalf of the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs, I request the House to support the approval of the protocol. I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: We will deal with the decision in terms of section 65 of the Constitution. I note that all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes.
In accordance with rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they wish to do so.
Is there any province wishing to make a declaration of vote? There is none. We proceed therefore to voting on the question. This will be done in alphabetical order per province. Eastern Cape?
Mrs B N DLULANE: Siyaxhasa. [We support.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Free State?
Mr T S SETONA: We support.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng?
Mr D M RAMODIBE: E a tshehetsa. [We support.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?
Ms B THOMPSON: Siyayamukela. [We support.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Limpopo?
Mrs C NKUNA: Limpopo e ya dumela [Limpopo supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?
Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: Mpumalanga i ya seketela. [Mpumalanga supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Northern Cape?
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Northern Cape supports.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: North West?
Rev P MOATSHE: E tladitswe. [We support.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Western Cape?
Mr F ADAMS: Die Wes-Kaap ondersteun. [Western Cape supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! all provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted. [Applause.]
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND
ADMINISTRATION - ANNUAL REPORT
Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson and hon colleagues. It is with much humility and appreciation that I present the committee’s report to this august House.
The vision of the Select Committee on Local Government and Administration can be summarised as follows: to focus the committee’s work in the context of the challenges of economic growth, job creation, development and democracy; to link the committee’s work to central challenges set out in the policy statements by the Government, including the state of the nation address, the Minister of Finance’s Budget Speech and state of provinces addresses by the premiers.
Thus our mission is set out as follows: to ensure the effective implementation of the system of co-operative governance and intergovernmental relations, as enshrined in the Constitution; to ensure the effective implementation of the new model of local government; to monitor the implementation of the urban renewal programme and integrated sustainable rural development; to contribute towards defining the role of traditional leaders in a democratic South Africa; to ensure that the system of governance facilitates significant service delivery and development in the country; to exercise oversight on issues related to disaster management, cultural and linguistic rights and other matters dealt with by the Department of Provincial and Local Government; to facilitate public participation in Parliament and in the legislatures on matters of governance and development; and, lastly, to exercise oversight on issues dealt with by the Ministry and, in fact, by the Department of Public Service and Administration.
Our objectives are also set out briefly as follows: to exercise oversight on service delivery; to monitor the quality of service delivered by the Public Service in relation to the Batho Pele principles, including the set standards in the Public Service Act and Public Finance Management Act; to exercise oversight over the Department of Provincial and Local Government with more focus on the consolidation of the new local government system, including new local government financial systems and legislation; to facilitate co-operative governance relationships with traditional leadership; and, to process legislation and amendments whenever we are called upon to do so. Also, members are welcome to suggest amendments where necessary in the legislation.
The list of entities that are overseen by this committee are the following. They are the Department of Public Service and Administration with the following institutions and parastatals: the SA Management Development Institute, Samdi; the Public Service Commission, PSC; the State Information and Technology Agency, Sita; and the Public Service Sectoral Education and Training Authority.
With regard to the Department of Provincial and Local Government, the following institutions are overseen by the committee. They are the Local Government Water and Related Services Seta; the Municipal Infrastructure Investment Unit; the National House of Traditional Leaders; and, organised local government. Other stakeholders are: organised groups such as NGOs and CBOs, and the SA National Civics Organisation.
During the period of our report the following pieces of legislation were dealt with. We dealt with the Local Government: Municipal Structures Second Amendment Bill. The Bill was finalised on 10 March and debated in this House on 12 March. We also dealt, informally so, with the Local Government: Property Rates Bill and provinces were briefed on this piece of legislation. Although it is a section 75 Bill, it is currently in the hands of the National Assembly and we expect it to be tabled in our committee by 26 February.
We also dealt with the Local Government: Municipal Systems Amendment Bill. This Bill was dealt with, finalised and voted on on 20 November last year. Perhaps another watershed piece of legislation was the Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Bill, which was dealt with in this House and voted on on 26 November. This Bill is still a work in progress as provinces still have to promulgate relevant legislation which is particular to their provinces. We will be receiving a briefing about development in this regard in the coming week.
Regarding other matters dealt with, owing to the outcry about capacity in local government, the committee requested a briefing by the relevant sectoral education and training authority as to what it was doing to bring capacity to local government. We learnt that there were various strategies adopted by organised local government at this Seta, and work is in progress in that regard.
Another highlight of this year in the committee’s work was the observation of the rural bias enshrined in the budget of the Department of Provincial and Local Government. Briefly, in this regard we observed an increased allocation of funding and resources aimed especially at the rural municipalities.
Another matter that we dealt with was the briefing by the various legislatures in the form of a section 106 investigation. We received communication from the Department of Provincial and Local Government in the Northern Cape province and we went out as a committee to do oversight on three municipalities in the Northern Cape.
This is still a work in progress. We are awaiting progress as to what is happening in that regard. May I report to this House that the section 106 investigation is posing serious challenges for this House as, in terms of this legislation, the provincial government only notifies this House about an investigation. The province is not compelled or expected to give any feedback or anything whatsoever to this House. We can only use other pieces of legislation in order to support those provinces who report problems specific to those municipalities. There are still discussions going on as to how we can go about embellishing the confines as observed in this piece of legislation.
We also received the following briefing concerning the National Centre for Disaster Management. We also visited this centre in order to ascertain whether it was ready and transformed in order to deal with the matters and challenges facing it. We were heartened to note that this disaster management centre does not only serve the needs of the Republic but also those of all SADC countries that may call upon it for assistance.
Various matters were referred to this committee by way of the ATC, and we note and report to this House that several of these matters could not be dealt with in terms of their finality owing to the confines of time. The committee also noted, when dealing with this report, that more time was allocated to matters relating to local government. It is our assessment that the committee should have a relook at this matter since it appears that it allocates about 65% of its time and commitment to dealing with matters of local government and only about 35% of its time to matters dealing with the Public Service and administration.
Finally, may I also acknowledge the full-time and unwavering support and commitment of committee members who serve in this committee. As we note, some of the activities involving this committee are unplanned and unforeseen activities, such as disasters and interventions. Regardless of these confines and pressing time constraints, members of this committee have been very meticulous when dealing with matters when called upon. I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Order! I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are they all present? [Interjections.] Yes.
In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote, if there are any. Is there anyone? None.
We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do so in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour of, against or abstain. Eastern Cape?
Ms B N DLULANE: Re tsamaya le wona. [We agree with it.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Free State?
Mr T S SETONA: Free State supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Gauteng?
Ms D M RAMODIBE: Gauteng e a o tshehetsa. [Gauteng supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): KwaZulu-Natal?
Ms B THOMSON: Siyahambisana nombiko. [We agree with the report.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Limpopo?
Mrs C NKUNA: Limpopo i tendelana na hei ripoto. [Limpopo agrees with the report.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Mpumalanga?
Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: Mpumalanga ondersteun. [Mpumalanga supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Northern Cape?
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Northern Cape e a dumelana. [Northern Cape agrees with it.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): North West?
Rev P MOATSHE: E a tsehetsa. [Agrees.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Western Cape?
Mr F ADAMS: Wes-Kaap ondersteun. [Western Cape supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): All provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS - ANNUAL REPORT
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Thank you, Chairperson. It is with pride and honour that I report to this House on some of the things contained in the committee’s annual report. I am talking about the dynamic and calculated Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs. The list of clients or entities overseen by this committee are the following: the Departments of Justice, Safety and Security, Correctional Services, Defence and partly the Department of Intelligence. We also oversee Armscor and the Secretariat of the Department of Safety and Security.
In dealing with these departments, we had to look into some balance of forces and some motivating forces and come up with some strategies and tactics. The committee had to grapple with a number of things - the passing of legislation and other international agreements and protocols. The committee passed 14 Bills and 13 agreements and protocols within a very short space of time.
I am avoiding going into detail about these Bills and protocols, assuming that my colleagues have gone through the reports and if there are any queries, they will come to the committee to advise us accordingly, because I know my hon colleagues in the House are good readers.
The committee got briefings from all our clients. By clients, as I said initially, I am referring to all those departments. We also invited some officials who are dealing with some specific issues to appear before the committee.
The aim of this interaction by this committee with its clients is to oversee their operations and to monitor their expenditure patterns in terms of the Public Finance Management Act, the Public Service Act and the implementation of legislation.
The committee managed to visit no fewer than six provinces. Our visit to police stations was to look into various issues affecting police officers, their working conditions, if there is transformation in those departments, if they are getting the necessary support from the department, and to check if investigations of reported cases are properly carried out.
We are doing all this not because we are trying to point fingers, but because of complaints received from communities. When going out there, as I said, we are not only trying to find fault but to also motivate and encourage our police officers to work even harder.
The committee also visited magisterial offices whose aim was to closely scrutinise the implementation of the new courts process projects to assess its effectiveness on a continuous basis, and to undertake periodic visits to courts and hold consultations with all the relevant stakeholders to determine whether any problems exist with regard to the administration of justice.
The committee visited maintenance offices after receiving complaints from beneficiaries. We discovered horrible things in those offices. Because of our decisive interventions, many of those officials in those offices were arrested.
The committee visited our prisons which are overpopulated. The overcrowding in those prisons makes it impossible for the inmates to be effectively and properly rehabilitated.
The committee was supposed to have visited Canada regarding their rehabilitation programme which seems to be very effective. The trip did not materialise because of some logistical and technical problems. But, with the kind of leadership we have in the NCOP, I do not have the slightest doubt that those committee members who will be fortunate enough to come back after the elections will be allowed to go on that trip.
Because of the number of clients that have to be serviced by this committee, we have made a submission to the budget sub-committee that our budget be increased. With the hon Mr Ralane in that budget committee, we do not have any reason not to be optimistic and smile.
I urge members to go through the report. If they feel they need to advise us on anything, they are welcome to do so. We are saying that because we have adopted an open-door policy.
Let me thank the committee members for their undivided and unqualified support and loyalty. This committee has done a wonderful job because of you, colleagues. This committee is what it is because of you.
It is our culture that after I have spoken, someone must stand up and support what I have said. That person is none other than the hon Mr Matthee.
I now humbly commit the committee’s annual report to this Chamber. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Mnr P A MATTHEE: Voorsitter, hierdie komitee het gehandel met nie minder nie as 11 artikel 75-wetsontwerpe. Wysigings of amendemente is ten opsigte van vier van daardie artikel 75-wetsontwerpe voorgestel. Dit het ook gehandel met twee Grondwetwysigings.
Dit het gehandel met 12 internasionale ooreenkomste en protokolle. As ek net vir ‘n oomblik kan stilstaan by die internasionale ooreenkomste en protokolle; ek dink dat die amptenare wat hiermee werk tot die besef gekom het dat ons in hierdie komitee nie maar net ‘n rubberstempel gaan wees ten opsigte van hierdie ooreenkomste nie. Ons het werklik daarop aangedring dat daar behoorlik daarna gekyk word aangesien ons wou seker wees voordat ons dit goedkeur.
Die voordeel van hierdie komitee is dat al die departemente betrokke by die strafregpleging en die voorkoming en bekamping van misdaad deur hierdie komitee gehanteer word. Dit is daarom moontlik vir hierdie komitee - dit was ook moontlik - om ‘n holistiese beeld te kry van die hele Suid- Afrikaanse strafregstelsel. Dit is ‘n baie groot voordeel bo die verskillende portefeuljekomitees in die Nasionale Vergadering, wat uiteraard net ‘n beperkte insig kan ontwikkel ten opsigte van daardie spesifieke departement waarmee hulle werk, sonder om die voordeel te hê wat hierdie komitee het om ‘n geheelbeeld van die hele Suid-Afrikaanse strafregpleging te kan ontwikkel en sodanige insig te kan hê.
Die feit dat daar 11 Artikel 75-wetsontwerpe behandel is, en dat wysigings ten opsigte van vier daarvan voorgestel is, beklemtoon, myns insiens, die uiters belangrike funksie van die Nasionale Raad van Provinsies ook as ‘n tipiese hoërhuis van hersiening. Hoewel die klem dikwels net geplaas word op die rol van die Nasionale Raad van Provinsies vis-à-vis provinsies, bewys die werk en die funksie van hierdie komitee die groot belangrikheid van hierdie Raad ook ten opsigte van nasionale aangeleenthede.
Ons insiens behoort hierdie rol van die NRP nooit onderskat of gering geskat te word nie. Dít is in baie tweede of hoërhuise in die wêreld die enigste funksie wat sodanige Huise vervul.
Ten slotte wil ek graag die voorsitter, Kgoshi Mokoena, baie bedank vir sy voortreflike leierskap en, op ‘n ligter noot, wil ek sê dat hy amper kan toetree tot die geledere van ereregsgeleerdes, want u sien hy het net op een geleentheid die regsadvies van ‘n staatsregsadviseur bo myne aanvaar. Maar ná die debat in die Huis dink ek hy het tot ander insigte gekom. Hy is werklik ‘n baie bekwame voorsitter wat, soos ek sê, amper alreeds ‘n regsgeleerde in eie reg kan wees.
Die werk van hierdie komitee is ook ‘n goeie bewys dat ons, soos wat aangedui is in ander debatte - ook deur die Voorsitter van hierdie Raad - eintlik werklik meer permanente lede in hierdie Raad nodig het. Ons het vanmiddag geluister na beide die verslae van die voorsitter van die komitee wat handel met plaaslike regering en administrasie en ook na dié van die voorsitter van hierdie komitee. En as ‘n mens kyk na die omvang van die werk wat hierdie twee komitees doen, en ons kyk na die aantal lede wat nodig is in die ander plekke in die Parlement om daardie selfde werk te doen, dan besef ‘n mens dat - en in hierdie geval dien die meeste van die lede van hierdie twee komitees op altwee komitees - dit werklik ‘n groot taak is. Daarom dink ek dit is nodig dat ons in die nuwe termyn, na die verkiesing, spesifiek daarna moet kyk om meer permanente lede in hierdie Raad te kry.
Dit is vir my ‘n groot voorreg om voor te stel dat die Raad hierdie verslag aanvaar. Ek dank u. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, this committee has dealt with no fewer than 11 section 75 Bills. Amendments were proposed in respect of four of those section 75 Bills. It also dealt with two constitutional amendments.
It dealt with 12 international agreements and protocols. I would like to dwell for a moment on the international agreements and protocols; I think the officials who work with these have come to realise that we in this committee are not going to be merely a rubber stamp in respect of these agreements. We insisted that they be looked at properly because we wanted to be certain before we approved them.
The advantage of this committee is that all departments involved in criminal justice and the prevention and combating of crime are dealt with by this committee. Therefore it is possible for this committee - it was also possible - to obtain a holistic image of the whole South African system of criminal law. It is a great advantage above the various portfolio committees in the National Assembly, who can develop only a limited insight in respect of that specific department with which they are working, without having the advantage of this committee to be able to form an overall image of the whole South African criminal justice system and to have such insight.
The fact that 11 section 75 Bills were dealt with, and that amendments were proposed in respect of four of them, in my opinion emphasises the crucial function of the National Council of Provinces also as a typical higher court of revision. Although the emphasis often falls only on the role of the National Council of Provinces vis-á-vis provinces, the work and the function of this committee prove the great importance of this Council also in respect of national matters.
In our opinion this role of the NCOP should never be underestimated. In many second or higher Houses in the world this is the only function fulfilled by such Houses.
In conclusion I would like to thank the chairman, Kgoshi Mokoena, for his excellent leadership and, in a lighter vein, I want to say he is almost ready to join the ranks of the honorary lawyers, because, you see, on only one occasion did he accept the legal advice of a state law adviser above mine. But after the debate in the House I think he came to other insights. He is truly a very competent chairperson who, as I say, can almost already be a lawyer in his own right.
The work of this committee is also good proof that we, as indicated in other debates - also by the Chairperson of this Council - actually really need more permanent members in this Council. This afternoon we listened to both the reports of the chairperson of the committee dealing with local government and administration and to that of the chairperson of this committee. And if one looks at the scope of the work that these two committees must do, and we look at the number of members who are necessary in other places in Parliament to do that same work, then one realises that
- and in this case most of the members of these two committees serve on both committees - it is really an enormous task. For that reason I think it is necessary that in the new term, after the election, we must specifically try to get more permanent members in this Council.
I find it a great privilege to propose that the Council accepts this report. I thank you. [Applause.]]
Debate concluded.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): That concludes the debate. I shall now put the question and the question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all the delegation heads are present in the House. Are they present? In accordance with Rule 71, I shall afford them with the opportunity for declaration if they so wish. Is there any? None.
We shall now proceed to voting on the question. I shall do so in alphabetical order. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote for, against or abstain. Eastern Cape?
Ms N C KONDLO: iMpuma Koloni iyayixhasa. [The Eastern Cape supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Free State?
Mr T S SETONA: Free State is in favour.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): We did not hear you.
Mr T S SETONA: Free State is in favour.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Gauteng?
Ms D M RAMODIBE: Gauteng supports.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): KwaZulu-Natal?
Ms B THOMSON: Siyawamukela umbiko. [We support.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES (Mr M J Mahlangu): Limpopo?
Mrs C NKUNA: Limpopo o ya o thekga. [Limpopo supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Mpumalanga?
Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: iMpumalanga sihlehla nayo sihlalo. [We go along with it.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Northern Cape?
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Northern Cape iyavuma. [Northern Cape supports.] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): North West?
Rev P MOATSHE: re psamaelana le wona. [We support.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Western Cape?
Mr F ADAMS: Wes-Kaap ondersteun. [Western Cape supports.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Nine provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The Council adjourned at 15:26. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- Assent by President in respect of Bills
(1) National Environmental Management: Protected Areas Bill [B 39D -
2003] - Act No 57 of 2003 (assented to and signed by President on
11 February 2004).
- Bills passed by Houses - to be submitted to President for assent
(1) Bill passed by National Assembly on 12 February 2004:
(i) Education Laws Amendment Bill [B 38D - 2003] (National
Assembly - sec 76)
(2) Bill passed by National Council of Provinces on 12 February
2004:
(i) Telecommunications Amendment Bill [B 65B - 2003] (National
Assembly - sec 75) National Council of Provinces
- Messages from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills passed by Assembly and transmitted to Council
(1) Bill passed by National Assembly on 12 February 2004 and
transmitted for concurrence:
(i) Communal Land Rights Bill [B 67B - 2003] (National
Assembly - sec 75)
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Land and
Environmental Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.