National Assembly - 04 November 2004
THURSDAY, 4 NOVEMBER 2004 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
The House met at 14:00.
The House Chairperson (Mr G Q M DOIDGE) took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col.000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, I would have preferred to move this as a motion without notice, but there was an objection from the ANC:
That the House –
1) notes the re-election of George W Bush as President of the United
States of America;
2) notes that he received the majority of votes, as well as electoral
. . . [Interjection.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: Order! Hon member, may I address you on that motion?
Mr K D S DURR: Yes, Mr Chairperson, you may.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: Notices of motion are specifically for giving notice to the House of a subject that you would like debated. That sounds to me like a motion without notice. If there is not agreement that it be moved as a motion without notice, then we cannot accept it as a notice of motion.
Mr K D S DURR: Mr Chairperson . . .[Interjection.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: Mr Durr, I would suggest that you familiarise yourself with the Rules.
Mr K D S DURR: Mr Chairperson, I intend moving this as notice of motion to be moved on the next sitting of the House because of the consequences of the developmental benefits of the re-election of Mr Bush . . . [Interjection.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: Order! Hon member, I will allow you to move the motion and we will have to consider it. Please, proceed.
Mr K D S DURR: Thank you, Chairperson. I move:
That the House-
1) notes the re-election of Mr George W Bush as President of the
United States of America;
2) further notes that he received the majority of votes, as well as
electoral votes;
3) takes pleasure in congratulating Mr Bush and his party on this
great electoral victory for the Presidency, as well as the Senate
and the House of Representatives;
4) given the fact that Mr Bush’s administration has been the most
supportive of African development of any US administration to date,
welcomes his re-election;
5) notes the congratulations of President Mbeki to Mr Bush and the
American people, which this House endorses with the hope of the
promise of even greater co-operation with South Africa and our
region in the future; and
6) that the House will discuss the implications of this election.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, on a point of order: I think you were correct when you suggested that members need to familiarise themselves with the traditions of the House. In the case of a substantive matter where the House must pronounce itself, it is proper to work through the channels that are established. Parties are consulted before there is agreement, and usually as to who would be suitable to convey that kind of sentiment as inclusive of the sentiments of this House. I think that is very important.
Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order: I think we have followed all the Rules. We have circulated this motion to all the political parties at 12:30. The agreement is that at 12:00 we need to know which political parties will raise objections. It was at 12:30 when we got the objection from one of the secretaries of the ANC to say that you were not going to support this motion.
So, we followed all the Rules. The only option left for us is to do it now with notice.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: We will continue. I think the Chief Whips should observe the opportunity when they meet every week in the Chief Whips’ Forum to revisit the matter and consult each other further. The motion as tabled by Mr Durr will be considered in terms of compliance and will either appear or not appear on the Order Paper.
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
PRESIDENT MBEKI’S CONGRATULATIONS TO THE PEOPLE OF BOTSWANA AND THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, I hereby move as follows:
That the House-
1) endorses the congratulations and good wishes extended to the people
and governments of Botswana and of the United States of America by
President Mbeki;
2) affirms that successful democratic elections in Africa and in
America strengthen democracy around the world; and
3) trusts that the excellent relations which South Africa enjoys with
Botswana and the United State of America, and the presidents of the
two countries, will be strengthened in order to tackle the problems
of poverty, underdevelopment and fair trade in Africa and the world.
Agreed to.
Dr C P MULDER: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order: I would like to know if it is in order for the DA to move a motion of congratulations to President Bush when the same DA two days ago, in this very House through the hon Waters, expressed the DA’s public support for Senator Kerry? Is that in order, Mr Chairperson? Or is it just an example of the DA’s opportunism? [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: It shows that members are paying attention to the business of the House!
CONDOLENCES TO THE BOPAPE FAMILY
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move without notice as follows:
That the House –
(1) notes with shock and profound sadness the death of Mr David
Bopape, who passed away on 2 November 2004;
(2) recognises that Mr Bopape was a veteran of the National
Liberation Struggle, a South African patriot who throughout his
life demonstrated unwavering commitment to the liberation of the
people of this country and the continent of Africa;
(3) remembers Mr Bopape as one of the stalwarts and founding members
of the ANC Youth League, together with Anton Lembede, Oliver
Tambo, Walter Sisulu, Nelson Mandela and others;
(4) recalls that -
(a) David Bopape was since 1940 and 1942 a member of the South
African Communist Party and the African National Congress
respectively;
(b) in 1944 he was secretary of the ANC's Anti-Pass Campaign
and also Secretary of the then Transvaal Association of
African Teachers on the East Rand; and
(c) he was among the first to receive banning orders by the
apartheid regime, along with J B Marks, Dr Y M Dadoo, Moses
Kotane and others;
(5) believes that the life of this great revolutionary, educator and
fighter for freedom and justice bequeaths to our country and
people a legacy that epitomises heroism and dedicated service;
and
(6) conveys its condolences to the Bopape family, the African
National Congress and the South African Communist Party.
Agreed to.
BEST WISHES TO SPRINGBOKS AGAINST WALES
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairperson, I hereby move without notice as follows:
That the House congratulates all those rugby players selected to play
for the Springboks in the test match against Wales on Saturday and
looks forward to a sparkling winning game.
Agreed to.
MEMBERS’STATEMENTS
DEATH THREATS TO WESTERN CAPE GOVERNMENT MEMBERS
(Member’s Statement)
Ms M M SOTYU (ANC): Thank you, Chairperson. During his state of the nation address, President Mbeki committed government, through the SAPS, to arrest the 200 most wanted criminals in South Africa. Since that time numerous reports of success in apprehending and charging these crime bosses have been reported.
Over the weekend it became public that the Premier of the Western Cape, Mr Ebrahim Rasool, and the MEC for Safety and Security, Mr Leonard Ramatlakane, had received death threats. These threats were a direct result of the successes achieved in the Western Cape in arresting suspected criminal kingpins. The police and other agencies in the criminal justice cluster must be congratulated for the successes that they have achieved in ridding society of these criminal elements. It is only through their determination, commitment and hard work that we can take the streets of our communities back from the criminals.
The message to the criminals out there is loud and clear: The ANC government will not rest before you are behind bars. Crime does not pay and you will pay for your greediness and exploitation of society. If anything, your action will serve as a further motivation to seek you out wherever you may be hiding, find you and bring you to the courts where you will face the full might of the law. There is no safe place for criminals in South Africa. We will catch you. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
LAND RESTITUTION PROCESS
(Member’s Statement)
Mr A H NEL (DA): Die DA verwelkom die uiteindelike erkenning van die Minister van Landbou en Grondsake dat die afhandeling van die restitusieproses finansiering van R13 miljard benodig. Dit is ‘n feit dat as mens eers die probleem herken, dit makliker is om dit te hanteer en oplossings daarvoor te soek. Die vraag is dus: Hoe finansier ons dié reuse bedrag? As ‘n mens die begroting van die departement oor die volgende drie jaar neem, is dit ongeveer R5 miljard - dit beteken dat R8 miljard gevind moet word. Dit moet binne die begroting en deur moontlike internasionale skenkings gevind word.
Artikel 7(2) van die Grondwet bepaal dat die regte daarin vervat deur die staat gerespekteer, beskerm, bevorder en uitgevoer moet word. Dit is dus baie duidelik dat dit die staat se verpligting is om die herstel van grondregte en grondhervorming te finansier. Dié verpligting mag nie op die huidige grondeienaars afgeskuif word nie.
Ons kan nie slegs 46 000 grondeienaars verantwoordelik hou vir al die onregte ten opsigte van grond wat in die verlede plaasgevind het nie. Baie dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans member’s statement follows.)
[Mr A H NEL (DA): The DA welcomes the fact that the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs has finally admitted that the conclusion of the restitution process requires financing of R13 billion. It is a fact that as soon as one recognises the problem, it is easier to deal with it and to find solutions for it. The question is thus: How do we finance this vast amount? If one takes the department’s budget over the next three years, it is about R5 billion – which means that R8 billion has to be found. It must be found within the budget and through possible international donations.
The Constitution provides in section 7 (2) that the rights contained therein must be respected, protected, promoted and fulfilled by the state. It is therefore very clear that it is the responsibility of the state to finance the restitution of land rights and land reform. This obligation may not be shifted to the current landowners.
We cannot hold only 46 000 landowners responsible for all the injustices with regard to land that took place in the past. Thank you.]
VIOLENCE AGAINST CHILDREN
(Member’s Statement)
Mr V B NDLOVU (IFP): Chairperson, recently a report has brought to our attention the severity of crime and violence committed against children in our country, as well as the pain suffered by children and their families due to such traumatic processes.
These crimes range from rape to abuse and murder. The Sowetan of 3 November features two stories of crime committed against children. One of the stories was about a nine-year-old girl who was raped at her home in Bronkhorstspruit, Mpumalanga.
Since the incident of rape took place in 2002, the girl is said to have never recovered and suffers constant nightmares in fear that the man who raped her might return to recommit his crime. The girl’s mother who testified in the Pretoria High Court was sobbing during her testimony, and said that the rapist had destroyed her only child’s life.
The story in the Sowetan of 3 November also features a story of an eight- year-old boy in KwaZulu-Natal who had been chained to a wheelbarrow by his grandmother as punishment every time he misbehaved. The boy also said that his uncle sodomised him every time he was chained to the wheelbarrow, which was usually over weekends.
I am sure we all remember Rafique, the boy from the Cape Flats who was kidnapped and murdered a few months ago. His mother has recently been reported to be experiencing severe trauma and is unable to find peace due to the fact that her baby’s killer is still at large. These violent crimes committed against children . . .[Time expired.]
DISTASTEFUL COMMENT BY DA MEMBER
(Member’s Statement)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY (ANC): Thank you, Chairperson. The ANC expresses its utmost displeasure and total rejection of the false and distasteful statement made by hon A C Steyn in this august House on Tuesday, 2 November 2004. The comments made by him are informed by insensitivity, characteristic of a party that knows no bounds in its quest to balkanise our nation into hostile racial groups, while preserving white supremacy and privilege are merged through commission of a crime against humanity. The time has come for all those who have the interests of their motherland at heart to turn their backs on the racial intolerance and divisive ways of the DA and join the unstoppable march to a truly democratic nonracial, nonsexist South Africa, where the dignity of all South Africans is affirmed, regardless of race, colour or creed. Comrade Dumisane fought and sacrificed for the attainment of a better life for all the people of our country, none of which can even be imagined of his DA critics. The unsubstantiated allegations are a desperate attempt by reactionaries who yearn for the evil days of white supremacy. It is precisely this anti-African conduct of not respecting even the dead, that makes these reactionaries unworthy of the noble support of our people. Long live the spirit and memory of Comrade Dumisane Makhaya. [Time expired.][Applause.]
INTERNATIONAL RETAIL BANKS
(Member’s Statement)
Mr M STEPHENS (UDM): Thank you, Chair. The UDM notes with some ambivalence the interest of large international retail banks to enter the South African market. Apart from Barclays Bank, Standard Chartered Bank is also seriously considering their options. We want these banks and others who might yet come to know that we applaud them with two hands: On the one hand, if they come to increase competition in retail banking, we welcome them. If they bring low and zero-cost banking products such as are available in the countries they operate in, we embrace them. If they come to add value to the lives of all South Africans, including the poor and disadvantaged, we salute them. On the other hand, if they come to join the existing complex monopoly, if their intentions are to share in the spoils of unjust predatory and discriminatory banking practices, let them be warned: Things will not remain as they are. We are wholly dedicated to protect and promote South African consumers. We shall demand of them what we demand of all banks: fair and just treatment, transparent rules and a free basic bank account for all South Africans. [Applause.]
DA SCORING POLITICAL POINTS
(Member’s Statement)
Mr C B JOHNSON (NNP): Geagte Voorsitter, die ledeverklaring wat die agb Steyn van die DA eergister in die Huis gelewer het oor die LUR vir Behuising in KwaZulu-Natal, ene Mnr Dumisane Makhaya, het hopelik aan almal hier in hierdie Huis, en ook aan die publiek daar buite, presies gewys net hoe laag die DA sal daal in ‘n poging om politieke punte te probeer wen. [Applous.] Die vraag of iets binne orde of buite orde is in terme van die Parlementêre Reëls en Prosedure is iets waaroor die Speaker weldra ‘n beslissing sal gee. Ek gaan my nie daaroor uitlaat nie. Die ander meer belangrike punt … (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Hon Chairperson, the member’s statement made by the hon Steyn of the DA in the House the day before yesterday, with regard to the MEC for Housing in KwaZulu-Natal, one Mr Dumisane Makhaya, has hopefully demonstrated to all in this House, and to the public at large, precisely to what level the DA will sink in its attempt to score political points. [Applause.] The question whether something is in order or out of order in terms of the Parliamentary Rules and Procedures, is a matter on which the Speaker will soon be giving a ruling. I shall not go into it. The other more important point…]
Mr D H M GIBSON: Chairperson, on a point of order: I understand that the presiding officer is going to rule on the matter and therefore it is sub judice at the moment. [Interjections.] It shouldn’t be the subject of further discussion by hon members.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M DOIDGE): May I remind members that after numerous points of order were taken on the matter, the Deputy Speaker then ruled that she would take advice on the matter. That ruling is outstanding and I must caution members that we should not pre-empt it.
Dr C P MULDER: Yes, Chairperson, I would agree. Could I assist Mr Gibson with regard to the Rules? Rule 76 that deals with sub judice indicates that if a decision is pending before the courts in South Africa, then it cannot be discussed. This is not before the courts and it is not sub judice. [Applause.]
Mr D H M GIBSON: May I address you on that point, Chairperson?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M DOIDGE): No, hon Gibson. I think in terms of the Rule quoted by the hon member, he is correct.
Mr D H M GIBSON: But I did not quote that Rule, Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M DOIDGE): The matter is under advisement and a ruling is pending. Ms Johnson, I’ll now leave you at that point, unless there is something else you want to add to your statement, without referring to the pending ruling.
CROSSING OF OUR BORDERS
(Member’s Statement)
Dr C P MULDER (FF Plus): Thank you, Chairperson. Chairperson, people who cross the borders of the Republic of South Africa and come into South Africa illegally remain a problem. The UN High Commissioner for refugees recently said that from January 2004 there were 26 900 recognised refugees and a further 90 600 awaiting determination of their asylum applications. According to Lauren Landau, research director of the University of the Witwatersrand, more and more people are coming to South Africa as refugees and asylum seekers. She puts the figure at 150 000. There are also other claims that state that as many as between 2 to 3 million people are illegally in South Africa. It is important to note that it was reported at the Human Rights Commission’s hearings yesterday in Johannesburg, that anyone with the most modest of resources could cross the border and that this opened them to abuse. Some non-nationals complain that the police see them as walking automatic teller machines. We are also aware of the fact that there were some recent arrests in the SAPS with regard to these kinds of things. The Freedom Front Plus expresses its serious concern. We would like to see that our borders are secured and that this kind of corruption is absolutely prevented, also in our police service.
THE LATE MEC DUMISANI MAKHAYE
(Member’s Statement)
Nk P N MNANDI (ANC): Sihlalo woSihlalo, uKhongolose uyabonga kubo bonke abantu baseNingizimu Afrika nabasemazweni angaphandle, ababhonge emswaneni kanye nathi ngokulahlekelwa umholi neqhawe lomzabalazo, uqabane uDumisani Makhaye. UKhongolose namhlanje wedlulisa amazwi okuxolisa emndenini wakwaShombela okuthe kungakapheli nsuku zatshwala efihliwe uqabane uDumisani, wenziwa indaba egudwini kule Ndlu yiqembu le-Democratic Party. UKhongolose uyawahlonipha kakhulu amasiko ezinhlanga zonke zakuleli. KwaZulu thina isehlo esinjengalesi asisho ukuthi yihlazo kodwa sithi yichilo. Emndenini wonkana wakwaMakhaye sithi nxeseni. Kulabo ndlavini beqembu … [Ubuwelewele.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Mr P N MNANDI (ANC): Chair of Chairs, The ANC conveys its gratitude to all the people of South Africa and the international community who mourned with us the demise of our leader, a cadre, comrade Dumisani Makhaye. The ANC wishes to apologise to the family of KwaShombela (Makhaye) in that shortly after the death of comrade Dumisani, his name (Dumisani Makhaye) was made a matter of discussion by the Democratic Alliance.
The ANC respects cultures of all races of this country. With us, in the case of an incident such as this, we do not say it is an embarrassment, but we say it is a disgrace. To the family of Makhaye we say sorry. To those hooligans of … [Interjections.]]
Mr D H M GIBSON: Chairperson, on a point of order: The hon member is making a statement exactly contrary to the ruling you have just given. She must know that. Will you ask her to stop?
The CHAIRPERSON: We will afford the member time to finish, Mr Gibson, because I was listening to it.
Nk P N MNANDI: Kulabo ndlavini beqembu le-Democratic Party sithi abalibambe lingashoni. Shombela, lala ngoxolo! [Ihlombe.] [Mr P N MNANDI: The Democratic Party, woe unto you! Shombela rest in peace! [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON: I would just like to remind members that I had cautioned or reminded members on the pending ruling, and would ask Whips to assist us in this regard. I now come to the DA.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, can I get clarification? When a ruling is pending on a matter, does it mean that the freedom to express opinion on what was said, not on the content of whether it is parliamentary or not, is affected? Can we have clarification on that point?
The CHAIRPERSON: I will take advice on that, Mr Goniwe, and come back to you. The hon DA!
BICENTENARY CELEBRATIONS IN UITENHAGE
(Member’s Statement)
Mr A C STEYN (DA): Chair, Uitenhage, founded in 1804, is celebrating its bicentenary this year. This garden town is the oldest in the Eastern Cape and the fifth oldest in South Africa. Being 16 years older than Port Elizabeth, Uitenhage can legitimately be called the mother town of the Nelson Mandela Metropolitan Municipality.
In his preface to the commemorative book on Uitenhage published last month, the Deputy Mayor, Mr Bicks Ndoni wrote the following, and I quote:
The history of Uitenhage is essentially a history of South Africa.
This town is a microcosm of all that is our country. Some flourished
and others suffered immeasurable levels of poverty and trauma.
Uitenhage holds a special place in the history of the struggle against
apartheid. Langa, the scene of the 1985 massacre on Soweto day, is
also the birthplace of Enock Sontonga, the man who wrote and composed
Nkosi Sikelel’I-Afrika. We are deeply proud of that.
Today, Uitenhage is filled with tolerance and goodwill. In conveying our good wishes we say: God bless Uitenhage and God bless South Africa, and I would like to congratulate the DA on the major role that it has played in the metro in bringing about this wonderful reconciliation that has taken place.
THE DA LEADER’S STATEMENTS AGAINST THE EXPRESSION OF RACISM BY BLACK PEOPLE (Member’s Statement)
Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE (Azapo ): Chairperson, Azapo is highly concerned about repeated statements emanating from the leader of the DA in his attitude to black experience when Black people indicate their disgust and opposition to racist practices in our contry.
Each time reference is made to the painful experiences that characterised black life during the days of apartheid and in present day South Africa, the DA’s reaction sounds like that of a person with a guilt-ridden conscience. The DA’s attempt to make it uncomfortable for black people to talk about the disdain displayed by the racists in our country in unacceptable.
The attack on any black person who speaks against racism and the accusation about playing a racial card suggests that it is wrong, unacceptable or even malicious for black people to talk about their existential conditions and the hurting past whose results are still evidenced today. Apartheid and racial oppression are part of the important and bitter experiences of our history, and the DA should be happy that there are millions of black people who are very reconciliatory and are prepared to work for one nation in our country.
THE LATE MEC DUMISANI MAKHAYE
(Member’s Statement)
Mr D M GUMEDE(ANC): UKhongolose uzwakalisa okukhulu ukushaqeka ngesenzo se- DA kanye nabanye bamaphephandaba sokwethuka, sihlukumeze sibuye sithunaze nesithunzi sabaholi abanikela ngakho konke nezimpilo zabo uqobo ekulweni nobandlululo. Babizwa ngamasela, ngabadlwenguli nangababulali mihla le. Isenzo sokuthunaza isithunzi sikaShombela kusaziliwe sikhombisa ukuthi kwabaningi izenzo ezivusa uhlevane ezazenziwa uhulumeni wobandlululo babezithakasela. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)
[The ANC wishes to express its shock at what the DA and some newspapers are doing by insulting, offending and tarnishing the image of the leaders who gave their all, and even their lives, in fighting apartheid.
Day by day they are called thieves, rapists and killers. The deed of tarnishing the image of Shombela whilst people are still in mourning shows that many enjoyed the ill deeds of the apartheid government . . .
Mr D H M GIBSON: On a point of order Chairperson, this hon member is doing exactly what that one did, what that one did and that one did. I ask you now to stop them, either that or we will all repeat everything and discuss every ruling before the Chair has given the ruling.
The CHAIRPERSON: Can we allow that member to finish and I shall respond to the House.
Mr D H M GIBSON: Chairperson!
The CHAIRPERSON: No, Mr Gibson.
Mr D H M GIBSON: Chairperson, may I ask why the member must finish when it is in contravention of the ruling that you gave. Either the Chair upholds its rulings or it does not.
The CHAIRPERSON: Order! I am going to allow the member to finish, Mr Gibson, and respond to the point of order raised by Mr Goniwe, which will assist you in being up-to-date as to how we are dealing with this matter. Please continue, hon member.
Mr D M GUMEDE: Thank you, Chairperson. OkaShombela wancama ukufa kunokuphila ngaphansi kobandlululo, ukushiya ukufudumala kwekhaya lakhe ayolala nezingonyama nezinhlwathi ehlathini, kanye nokubhekana nababulali bobandlululo ukuze kube khona ubulungiswa, amalungelo kanye nenkululeko yethu sonke.
OTambo, oHani noLuthuli bathi sithule sithini uma kunje? Abe-DA abayeke ukuvula amanxeba engakapholi. Esavumelana ngakho ukuhloniphana, ukuvikelana isithunzi nokuqeda ubandlululo. Lala uphumule Shombela, qhawe lamaqhawe![Ihlombe.] [Kwaphela isikhathi.] (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)
[Mr Shombela opted for death over living under apartheid; he left the warmth of his home and slept with the leopards in the bush, and faced the apartheid killers so that there would be justice, rights and freedom for all of us.
Tambo, Hani and Luthuli would be wanting to know what we are saying if things are like this. DA people should stop opening unhealed wounds. What we agreed upon was mutual respect, mutual protection of dignity, and putting an end to apartheid. Rest in peace, Shombela, hero of heroes. [Applause.] [Time expired.]]
The CHAIRPERSON: In response to the point of order raised by the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, the Deputy Speaker was requested on a point of order to consider the remarks contained in the DA statement. The matter is currently under consideration and members should extend presiding officers the courtesy of not referring to the issue until the ruling is given. Now, can we proceed along those lines and, hopefully, when the presiding officers respond, we can then debate the issue further.
TEACHERS’ UNION DISPUTE WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION
(Member’s Statement)
Ms H ZILLE (DA): The DA supports the four teachers’ unions that have declared a dispute with the Education Department after a deadlock in the Education Labour Relations Council yesterday.
We strongly urge the government to honour its commitments to address the eight-year promotions and salary backlogs for teachers, and introduce from January 2005 the integrated quality management system, which includes a performance-based pay approach. Unless the government honours these commitments it will be very difficult to negotiate the end to disputes because its credibility will be undermined by a history of broken promises.
All parties to the Public Service wage negotiations agreed that a plan was put on the table and accepted to end the salary negotiation deadlock in October. The Government must now find an additional R180 million required for the implementation of this plan. Thank you.
EMPLOYERS IMPOSING HIV TESTS ON DOMESTIC WORKERS
(Member’s Statement)
Mr T E VEZI (IFP): Chair, Liesl Gerntholtz who works for the Aids Law Project has stated that there is an increase of domestic workers who are being pressured by their employers to take HIV tests against their will. She also stated that on occasion employers would manipulate circumstances by taking their domestic workers for HIV tests under false pretences. These domestic workers are then dismissed if their test results return positive.
An HIV test done without the consent of a patient is illegal. It is also illegal to dismiss an employee on the basis that he is HIV positive. It is imperative that with regard to the HIV pandemic in South Africa, more is done to educate all South Africans about HIV and how it is transmitted. It is clear that there are still many ignorant people in our country who would be so cruel as to dismiss poor people and disconnect their livelihood, thus leaving them at the mercy of the disease. It is clear that domestic workers need protection from such discriminatory practices, and government has to intervene promptly by taking steps to educate domestic employers. A new culture of acceptance, love and compassion needs to be cultivated in our society from poor to affluent communities similarly.
HIV is not a death sentence. It is life threatening for the poorest of the poor who cannot afford to buy healthy foods and drugs.
CONGRATULATIONS TO THE MOSES KOTANE MUNICIPALITY
(Member’s Statement)
Dr M SEFULARO (ANC): Mmusakgotla, ka boikokobetso ke kopa gore ntlo ya gago e akgole lekgotla le ramotse wa mmasepala wa Moses Kotane, Peter Molelekeng. Mo letsatsing la Lamatlhatso, 30 Diphalane, ramotse Peter Molelekeng o ne a eteletse pele Lekgotlatoropo le baagi, ba sirolola sefikantswe sa setshwano sa ga Moses Kotane. Moswi Moses Kotane e ne e le mokwaledi-kakaretso wa Lekgotla la Makomonisi la Aforika Borwa, SACP [South African Communist Party]. Gape e ne e le moeteledipele wa lekgotla la bosetšhaba la NEC ya African National Congress. O robaditswe kwa serapeng sa baswi sa Moscow, Russia. Re lebogela mme mma Kotane, ba losika le bana fa ba abelane Moses Kotane le setšhaba sa Aforika Borwa yotlhe. Go a itumedisa gore lekgotlatoropo le le eteletsweng pele ke ANC, le bone go le botlhokwa gore godimo ga go bitsa motse wa bona ka Moses Kotane, ba mo tlotle ka mokgwa o re o tlhalositseng. Re le ANC re ipiletsa go makgotlatoropo a mangwe le ditheo tse dingwe tsa puso go batlisisa ka bagale botlhe motse le motse mme ba ba tlotle, ba ba rorise ka mokgwa mongwe. Halala Moses Kotane, halala.
MALOKO A A TLOTLEGANG: Halala. [Legofi.] (Translation of Tswana member’s statement follows.)
[Dr M SEFULARO (ANC): Madam Speaker, I humbly ask that you congratulate the committee and municipality council of Moses Kotane, Peter Molelekeng. On Saturday, 30 September Councillor Peter Molelekeng was leading the community and town council to unveil the tombstone of Moses Kotane. The late Moses Kotane was the General Secretary of the SACP (South African Communist Party). He was also the leader of the national committee, or NEC, of the African National Congress. He was laid to rest at a cemetery in Moscow, Russia. We thank Mrs Kotane, relatives and children for sharing Moses Kotane with the whole nation of South Africa. It is impressive to see that the town council that is led by the ANC has seen the importance, in addition to naming the town after Moses Kotane, of honouring him in the way we have explained. As the ANC, we call upon other town councils and other government institutions to look for heroes, town by town, and to honour and praise them in the same manner. Well done, Moses Kotane!
HON MEMBERS: Well done!
LAND RESTITUTION PROCESS
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Ngiyabonga Mphatsisihlalo, wena lomdzala. Ngitsandza kuphendvula lilunga lelihloniphekile lelikhulume lapha ngendzaba yekwabiwa kwemhlaba, ikakhulukati imibango yemhlaba njengobe sati ngekweMtsetfosisekelo walelive kusigaba 25, lokhuluma kabanti ngekutsi emalungelo ebuninimhlaba ebantfu balelive atakwabiwa kanjani.
Lokunye lokubaluleke kakhulu kutsi nome siwavikela emalungelo alabo labanawo kodvwa kufanele futsi kutsi sigucule simo salabo bantfu labebacindzetelekile ngaphambili.
Ngiyatsandza-ke kusho kutsi kute hulumende lakuphikako kutsi kungumsebenti wakhe kubuketa lomsebenti wekubuyiselwa kwemhlaba. Sibonile ngendlela hulumende lasebente ngayo eminyakeni lelishumi leyendlulile; timali letibekiwe, takhiwo letenta kutsi lomhlabatsi ubuyele kubantfu. Angikholwa- ke kutsi nyalo sesingatsi hulumende utawehluleka kwenta loko latsite utimisele kukwenta.
Mhlawumbe-ke kubalulekile kutsi nasibuka lenkhulumo yelilunga lelihloniphekile letsi asingabeki tinkinga tekwabiwa kwemhlaba kubalimi labanemhlaba nyalo. Ake ngibute umbuto nje, kutsi kantsi bona labo balimami nangabe umhlaba wabo bebawutsetse kubantfu kutakwentiwa njani-ke; ngoba phela kufanele siwutsatse kubo. Lokumnandzi-ke kutsi sitsi sitawutsatsa kubo siphindze sibabhadale. Asitsi sitawutsatsa ngalendlela lowatsatfwa ngayo nguhulumende ngaphambili.
Malunga lahloniphekile, ngiyetsemba kutsi angeke sibe siloku sicocisa ngaloludzaba sengatsi asati kutsi sentani. Siyati kutsi umtsetfo utsi asente njani, sitawulandzela njengobe usho lomtsetfo walevive kodvwa wona umhlaba sitawubuyisela kubanikati. Hulumende utawuyibeka imali. Umnikati kumbe Indvuna lephatselene netetimali itawusho ngaFebhuwari lapha kulePhalamende kutsi usiniketa malini. Asingajaki, sime nje nine bekunene. Ngiyabonga kakhulu. (Translation of Siswati paragraph follows)
[Thank you, hon Chairperson. I would like to respond to the hon member who has spoken about land distribution, and the conflicts over it as stated in Section 25 of the Constitution. This section deals mainly with how land ownership rights of the citizens of this country are going to be distributed. Another thing which is very important is that, although we protect the rights of those that have them, we also have to change the attitudes of those people who were previously oppressed.
I would also like to say that the government does not refuse that it is its responsibility to deal with the issue of land restitution. We have seen how the government has performed in the past ten years; the monies set aside, and the infrastructure that enable the land to be taken back to the people. I do not believe that we can now say the government will fail to do what it said it is prepared to do.
Maybe it is important that when we look into the member’s speech that we should not leave the land restitution problems for the farmers who are currently owning land. I would like to ask the question: If those farmers took the land from the people, what is going to happen now, because we must take it back from them? However, the wonderful thing about it is that we will take it back and compensate them. We are not saying that we will take it in the same manner as the apartheid government did.
Hon members, I hope that we will not go around in circles, debating this issue as if we do not know what we are doing. Let us not be hasty, good people; let us be steady. Thank you very much.
REQUEST FOR AN OPPORTUNITY TO RESPOND TO ACCUSATIONS MADE AGAINST THE
LATE DUMISANI MAKHAYE
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Chairperson, I think we are now done with umhlaba [land]. Can I proceed with housing? [Laughter.]
USIHLALO WENDLU (Mnu G Q M Doidge): Yebo, ngezezindlu. [The House Chairperson (Mr G Q M Doidge): Yes, regarding housing.]
The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Thank you very much. Chairperson, I believe I have a right to respond to some of the comments that were made about somebody who served in the portfolio of Housing, the late MEC Makhaye. However, I do recognise your ruling that it will be improper for us to deal with this matter until it has been resolved by the Deputy Speaker. I therefore request permission that, after that finding has been announced to the House, I, in my capacity as Minister of Housing, be given an opportunity to issue a statement in relation to the accusations that were made against Dumisani Makhaye, who is no longer able to answer on his own behalf. I thank you. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): That will be considered, hon Minister.
GOVERNMENT STANCE ON DEALING WITH CRIME
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Chairperson, I’m responding to two statements: Firstly, that which was made by the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security, and the one made by the hon Velaphi Ndlovu regarding crime.
The JCPS cluster which comprises the Departments of Safety and Security, Justice, Correctional Services, Home Affairs and Defence is a formidable cluster that has zero tolerance for crime. As government, we have stated before that criminals have no place in our streets and our society. We have to go after them, apprehend them, sentence them and lock them up.
We will also endeavour to work at their behaviour to correct and rehabilitate them, if possible. It is therefore important that families and communities out there help and assist us, as government, to report crime and to stop criminals dead in their tracks. Thank you.
WORKERS AND HIV TESTING
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Sihlalo, ndifuna nje ukwenza isicelo kumalungu ahloniphekileyo ale Ndlu, sokuba sincedisane nabasebenzi basemakhaya. Ngamanye amaxesha ikwasithi zinkokheli abathi bakhuphe iintetho ezimbaxa. Ikwasithi nabathi abantu mabahambe baye ezikliniki baye kuvavanywa ukuba ngaba banaso na isifo uGawulayo.
Kudala sisithi xa abantu bethe benziswa loo nto ngenkani, banyanzelwa, kuye kwenzeke eza zinto kanye zibikwa lela lungu lihloniphekileyo. Akukho namnye umsebenzi omakanyanzelwe ukuba aye kuvavanywa. Baziseni abasebenzi ukuba xa benyanzelwa, mabangayi, kuba uxam wakholwa ngamantintinti.
Ngoko ke akunyanzelekanga ukuba umntu abanjwe ngofele lwentamo asiwe kugqirha engafuni. Kungcono ukuba kuthi kanye ngelo xesha lesinyanzelo, abaleke umsebenzi aye nakweliphi na isebe lezabasebenzi, aye kuthi: ”Nanku umntu endibamba ngofele lwentamo, endinyanzela ukuba ndiye kwagqirha ndingafuni.”
Masithethe into ibenye ke, malungu ahloniphekileyo. Yekani ukuthetha le namhlanje, nithethe le ngomso, ngoba loo nto ibeka abantu bakowethu engozini. Sanukumamela aba ndlebe zikhany’ilanga bathetha kakhulu isilungu, kuba bona abachaneki, yaye kunjalo nje ezi zifo zingathi azibadli bona, zonzakalisa isizwe sakowethu, isizwe soobaw’ omkhulu. (Translation of Xhosa minister’s response follows.)
[The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Chairperson, I would like to appeal or make a request to the hon members of this House to work hand in hand with the domestic workers. Sometimes it is we, the leadership, who make contradicting statements. It is also we who say people must go to clinics to be tested to ascertain whether or not they are HIV positive.
For a long time we have been saying that when people were forced to do something or to undergo a process then, being pressed, those things mentioned by the hon member used to happen. Not a single worker should be forced to go for testing. Inform the workers that if they are forced, they should not go, because for people to understand something, they believe it should be repeated.
Therefore it is not necessary that a person be grabbed forcefully by the neck and taken to a doctor against his will. It is better that, precisely during that period of force, he should run from his work and go to any department of workers and say, “Here is a person grabbing me by the neck, forcing me to go to a doctor against my will.”
Let us speak with one voice, hon members. Stop saying one thing today and say something else tomorrow, because that sort of thing puts our people in danger. You must not listen to these white people who always speak English, because they are not affected. What is more, it seems these diseases do not affect them; they injure our nation, the nation of our forefathers.
GOVERNMENT HAS NOT RENEGED ON AGREEMENT
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Chairperson, I think it is very important that members of this House do not base the statements that they have the opportunity to make on incorrect information. Government has not reneged on the agreement that was signed in the Public Service Bargaining Chamber. That agreement stands and government is committed to it.
The amount of R500 million stipulated in that agreement is an undertaking that government is acting on. That fund is available to be distributed in terms of the agreement through a model that the Education Labour Relations Council will work out and stipulate. Therefore, there cannot be a new series of engagements and agreements determined.
The agreement, as signed at the conclusion of a protracted process of negotiation, is the agreement that must be executed. Any new form of requirement would have to form part of a new process. There is therefore no reneging by government, by myself – the Minister of Education - by the Department of Education, nor by the Minister for the Public Service and Administration, who is the principal negotiator.
There is an agreement that emerged from the bargaining chamber and it has signatures of trade unions attached to it. There may be a new range of demands being put out in the public domain, but there is an agreement and government will act on the basis of that agreement. [Applause.]
THE LATE MR B G MOLEWA
(Motion of Condolence)
Mr P J GOMOMO: Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the House –
(1) notes with sadness the untimely death of Mr Bernard Gilbert Molewa, who passed away on the 29th of October 2004;
(2) recognises that Mr Molewa was a South African patriot who lived a selfless life, making an enormous contribution to the struggle for democracy in this country;
(3) notes that he had been detained several times under apartheid, went into exile in 1964, that he served as an ANC representative in the then German Democratic Republic, Hungary and Cuba, and also as a member of the Provincial Executive Committee of the SACP of the North West Province;
(4) acknowledges the dynamic contribution that Mr Molewa made to Parliament from 1994 to 2004;
(5) believes that he leaves a legacy of heroism and dedicated service to the people of South Africa; and
(6) conveys its condolences to the entire Molewa family, his loved ones, the African National Congress and the South African Communist Party.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: An HON MEMBER: Chairperson, there will be responses from the other parties.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Are there any responses from the other parties?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, I’m not sure whether the other parties were expecting to respond. I’m very happy to do so on behalf of the DA and to join with the ANC in the motion being presented before this House.
The person concerned is somebody who left deep marks in South Africa. My party joins in wishing his family and all the people who loved him all of the best during this very difficult time.
Mnu A M MPONTSHANE: Mphathisihlalo, uma kufiwe uyokhala esifweni awumenywa, uyaziyela nje uma usuzwile ukuthi kukhona odlulile emhlabeni. Ngisukuma nje ngoba sesizwile ukuthi umfowethu uMolewa usesishiyile.
Yindoda lena ebesike sibe nayo ekomidini lezemfundo. Ubuthi uma uyinikeze ithuba lokuthi ikhulume, ingakhulumi ngalelo phuzu enikhuluma ngalo, kepha ikhulume ngomzabalazo uSihlalo aze abe nenkinga ukuyithulisa. Ngakho-ke yindoda engiyaziyo ukuthi bekuyindoda emadodeni.
Siyakhala-ke thina njengabe-IFP, sikhalele umndeni wakhe omkhulu obekunguKhongolose nomndeni wakhe omncane okungmndeni wakhe wangempela, nayo yonke iNingizimu Afrka neNdlu le yonkana. (Translation of Zulu speech follows.)
[Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Chairperson, one should not be invited to express condolences after hearing that someone has passed away. One should just go there to mourn. I stand up because I’ve heard that our brother Molewa has passed away.
He was a man. We were with him on the Portfolio Committee on Education. When given an opportunity to talk, he would talk about the struggle rather than the issue under discussion and the chairperson would not know how to stop him. I know that he was a man amongst men.
The IFP wishes to convey its sincere condolences to his family, the African National Congress, South Africa as a whole and this House.]
Mnr C H F GREYLING: Voorsitter, dit is met spyt dat die Huis kennis neem van die heengaan op 29 Oktober 2004 van oorlede mnr Bernard Gilbert Molewa. Sy heengaan is ‘n groot verlies vir die mense van Suid-Afrika én die Parlement. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Mr C H F GREYLING: Chairperson, it is with regret that the House notes the passing away on 29 October 2004 of the late Mr Bernard Gilbert Molewa. His passing is a great loss for the people of South Africa and this Parliament.]
Today we bid farewell to a man who offered himself and his knowledge to the struggle and his people. His contribution will not be forgotten. I wish to express our deepest condolences to his family and his loved ones. Thank you.
Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, we want to support the motion. We associate ourselves with the motion and we also want to express our condolences to the family, the loved ones, and particularly to the ANC for losing a man of the late Mr Molewa’s calibre. We know that he has made a huge contribution to South Africa and to what has been achieved in this nation. May his soul rest in peace and may God bless him and his family.
Mr J BICI: Enkosi Mhlalingaphambili. I-UDM iyazibandakanya kwilizwi elithi akuhlanga lungehlanga kusapho lwelungu elisishiyileyo. Siyeva ke ukuba ibilitsha-ntliziyo lomzabalazo eMzantsi Afrika. Silapha nje kungenxa yomzabalazo wakhe. Sithi nathi sigxwal’ emswaneni, akuhlanga lungehlanga. Langa ilungu lingalala ngoxolo. Enkosi. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[Thank you, Chair. The UDM also shares in the words of condolence to the family of the deceased member. We heard that the member was also an activist in South Africa. We are here because of his contribution in the struggle. We are with the family in our hearts during this difficult time. May the member rest in peace. Thank you.]
Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Mudzulatshidulo, vha muta wa ha Molewa, mirado na vharangaphanda vha ANC na vha SACP, rine vha Azapo ri a ni lilisa. Ri ri ho wa muthu muhulwane nga maanda. Muthu we a ri lwela, a ri swikisa fhano hune ra vha hone. Ri ri kha vha muta ha Molewa: Ri a vha lilisa nga tshino tshifhinga. Ndaa! (Translation of Venda paragraph follows.)
[Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Chairperson, Molewa’s family, members and leaders of the ANC and SACP, we as AZAPO send our condolences to you. We say we have lost a very great person, a person who fought for our liberation, and brought us here where we are. We say to Molewa’s family: we send our condolences in this difficult time. Thank you.]
Ms S RAJBALLY: Thank you, Chairperson. The MF associates itself with the message of condolence to Mr Bernard Gilbert Molewa’s family. We all know that death does claim us, and we cannot say no. When the call comes, we must be ready.
The MF sends its deepest condolence to the ANC on the loss of the great stalwarts it has suffered recently. Your pain is our pain. Thank you very much.
Mr N T GODI: Chairperson, the PAC joins the House in passing condolences and expressing its solidarity with the Molewa family, the ANC and the SACP on the occasion of the passing away of the late Bernard Molewa. It should be noted that on countless occasions we have had to come to the podium to pass our condolences to stalwarts of our liberation struggle who have passed on, and we wish to express our deepest sympathy. Thank you.
Dr C P MULDER: Geagte Meneer die Voorsitter, dit is aangenaam om ons namens die VF Plus te assosieer met die voorstel wat voor die Huis dien, en ons opregte medelye uit te spreek teenoor die naasbestaandes van die agb Molewa wat oorlede is, asook met die ANC wat ‘n kollega verloor het. Ons dra ons simpatie en sterkte oor, en ook ons medelye met die familie van die oorledene. Baie dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Dr C P MULDER: Mr Chairperson, it is pleasure to associate ourselves on behalf of the FF Plus with the motion serving before the House, and to convey our heartfelt condolences to the next of kin of the hon Molewa, who has passed on, as well as to the ANC, who have lost a colleague. We would like to convey our sympathy and offer our condolences to the family of the deceased. Thank you.]
Mr L N DIALE: Modulasetulo, legatong la lapa la gaMolewa, bahlabani bao ba lego gona le Ntlo ye, ke rata go fetola tšohle tšeo di boletšwego ka fa Ntlong ye e kgethegilego.
Bernard Molewa o belegetšwe Limpopo ka la 15 Setemere 1921 moo a thomilego sekolo, efela a se ke a fetša gabotse. O ile a tloga a ya Alexandra ka 1943, moo a ilego a ba leloko la African National Congress le lekgotla la basomi la South African Congress of Trade Unions - SACTU. Gona fao o thomile go tshwenywa ke sephodisa sa maloba; moo a ilego a be a tlogela naga ye a ya moše. O be a sa sepele fela gobane o be a sepela ka tsela le ditaelo tša ANC, SACP le SACTU mo ntweng yeo re bego re e hlabana kgahlanong le pušo ya apartheid.
Bernard Molewa ke yo mongwe wa bao ba boilego maloba ge go tlošitšwe mapheko ao a bego a iletša ANC le makgotla a mangwe. Go tloga fao o ile a swaragana le tšohle tšeo di kgonagetšego mo ditherišanong. Gape ke yo mongwe wa ba mathomo, bjaloka rena, go ba Maloko a Palamente.
Bjale re re modirišani ka rena a robale ka khutšo. Anke bana ba gagwe ba thekge dipelo.
Nna ke tsebane le Bernard Molewa gona mo Palamenteng. E be e le mogwera wa ka yo mogolo. Gape ke tsebane le morwa wa gagwe wa ramelao ka mengwaga ya bo1980 ge re be re boloka ngwana yo a bego a bolailwe ke sephodisa sa maloba, se mo lahletše godimo ga mokgokgotha kua go la Sekhukhune. Bjale morwa wa gagwe, ka go hloka mahlatse, ke ile ka kwa gore le yena o bolailwe go la Soweto. Feela ga go ne taba, e be e le tsela ya tokologo.
Bagešo, re re moya wa modirišani ka rena o sepele ka khutšo. A re tšeeng lerumo la gagwe re tšweleng pele, re hunolleng ekonomi ya naga ye ya rena yeo e sa swerwego ke matšwakgole.
Pele ka moya wa B G Molewa, pele!
MALOKO A PALAMENTE: Pele!
Mr L N DIALE: Pele ka moya wa B G Molewa, pele!
MALOKO A PALAMENTE: Pele! [Legofsi.] (Translation of Sepedi follows.)
[Mr L N DIALE: Chairperson, on behalf of Molewa’s family, the freedom fighters that are present and this House, I would like to reply to all that was said in this House.
Bernard Molewa was born on 15 September 1921 in Limpopo, where he started school, but he never completed his studies. He left in 1943 and went to Alexandra, where he was a member of the African National Congress and of the council of workers of the South African Congress of Trade Unions, Sactu. The police at the time started to harass him, until he left this country and went abroad. He left on the orders and instructions of the ANC, the SACP and Sactu in the war that we fought against the apartheid government.
Bernard Molewa was one of those who returned from exile when the hurdles that prohibited the ANC and other parties were removed. From there he was involved with all the things that were achieved in the negotiations. Again, like us, he was one of the first people to be a member of Parliament.
Now we are saying that our comrade must rest in peace.
I met Bernard Molewa in Parliament. He was my best friend. Then again, I knew his son, who was a lawyer in the 1980s, when we were burying a child who had been killed at the time by the police, who threw him on a thorn tree in Sekhukhune. Unfortunately, I heard that his other son was also killed in Soweto, but it is okay; it was a way to freedom.
Comrades, we say, may his soul rest in peace. Let us take his spear and continue to free our country’s economy that is still in the hands of foreigners. Forward with the spirit of B G Molewa, forward!
HON MEMBERS: Forward!
Mr L N DIALE: Forward with the spirit of B G Molewa, forward!
HON MEMBERS: Forward! [Applause.]] Debate concluded.
Motion agreed to.
DEBATE ON REPORT OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN MEMBERS OF THE PAN-AFRICAN PARLIAMENT ON THE SECOND ORDINARY SESSION OF THE PAN-AFRICAN PARLIAMENT
Adv Z L MADASA: Hon Chairperson and hon members, it is with great gratitude that I take part in this debate to report back to our Parliament that elected us as a delegation to the Pan-African Parliament. The report has been made available for perusal to all the members. I am also very proud that our country is now the permanent seat of the Pan-African Parliament.
The members of the current Pan-African Parliament, all in one voice, have agreed that South Africa is the best place to host the Parliament. Therefore, hon members, if we do our oversight well in South Africa, that is what the Pan-African Parliament may copy. On the other hand, if we do not do it well, that is also what they may copy.
For any institution to do well it must have good leadership. The Pan- African Parliament has good leadership in President Mongela and has four vice presidents. The Pan-African Parliament also has good leadership based on the quality of the members that constitute it. It was refreshing to listen to and to be part of debates of such a high quality. The Pan-African Parliament has high levels of skills and knowledgeable members.
I am confident that that Parliament is going to deliver on its mandate. As you can see in the report, we have debated in a space of only 10 days not less than six major subjects. Our delegation participated in all the debates. The debates were enriching and varied. They were honest, frank and sometimes robust, and all of them, without exception, were constructive.
We debated rules of procedure. To highlight just one debate, the debate on rules was marked by an attempt by some to impose regional parliamentary traditions on the new Parliament. There was a marked difference between the French traditions and the English traditions, with the French having a closed system, and the English with a somewhat open one. Eventually, as I said, because of the leadership of the President of the Parliament, agreements were reached, not on the basis of preferred colonial tradition, but on a proper interpretation of the Pan-African Parliament protocol and the African Union Constitutive Act.
The Parliament did not avoid the controversial issues, as you would have expected of a new parliament with new members and with people who are strangers to each other. We debated the issue of Dafur thoroughly and openly. Divergent views were fearlessly expressed about that crisis, and as you know, it was resolved to send a mission to Sudan. This is still pending. The mission has been mandated to record its findings, report back to that Parliament and also to make recommendations on how to solve the Dafur crisis.
The Parliament already has established 10 committees that are the same as the technical committees of the African Union. We, your delegates, have all been placed in committees. Unfortunately the rules there do not allow for a member to serve on more that one committee, or even to alternate.
Each committee has a maximum of 30 members and each of the five regions must have at least five members in each committee. The committees can be restructured according to their roles as the need arises.
Many commentators and armchair critics have raised concerns on whether the Pan-African Parliament will deliver on its mandate, because they say that it has no legislative powers. Well, the Pan- African Parliament is delivering already, because, as I have said, it is sending a mission to Dafur.
The Parliament has been set up with 10 committees already, and the rules of debates have been finalised. The Parliament has already debated various subjects. Though the Parliament has no legislative powers yet, it has the power to make recommendations to the Assembly of the African Union on any matter. The Rules of Procedure of the Assembly of the African Union are mandatory and they compel that Assembly to respond to all Pan-African Parliament recommendations.
The obvious challenge that is facing the Pan-African Parliament is inadequate funding. As you know, the Pan-African Parliament works through committees. In this case membership of committees is spread across the continent. Therefore, a lot is money is going to be needed if this parliament is to work effectively. There are also still political challenges that the Pan-African Parliament has to face, for example, some member states do not have elected parliaments, but have what is called deliberative organs. The question is: How long will the Pan-African Parliament allow delegates from such countries without proper parliaments to participate in the Pan-African Parliament?
We must remember that the objective of establishing the Pan–African Parliament was to ensure that the peoples of Africa participate actively in the affairs of the African Union. On the other hand, such deliberative organs tend to be mouthpieces of the executive which appointed them in the first place. However, we are of the view that we cannot force these matters. We have to take people on board and the situation is evolving.
We, as a delegation, are grateful also to our government that an amount of about R545 million, which the Minister of Finance announced, has been made available to the African Fund. This money will obviously indirectly help the Pan-African Parliament. We therefore call on all African member states to contribute financially to the African Union, proportionate to their economic sizes. We believe that money is available, but it is a matter of setting priorities.
Countries cannot complain about domestic needs when money is wasted on the bureaucracy and not used for the poor. We must have a balance and remember that a contribution to the African Union is a contribution to the poor through a collective route. However, we must also balance and make sure that we do not neglect domestic needs.
Members, regarding my experience at the Pan-African Parliament, I want to say that I have learnt to work together with other members of our delegation as a caucus from South Africa and with other regional caucuses. I have also learnt that we are not a South African delegation, but we are a delegation from South Africa for the African people. I have also learnt that the issues there require one to focus on the needs that affect the entire continent beyond ideological, ethnic, linguistic and cultural divides.
It was a refreshing experience, because without recognition that we cannot represent African peoples if we are divided, it would have been easy for members to revert to their own factions, but this did not arise in the African Parliament.
Thank you very much. The slogan of the African Parliament says: One Africa, one voice. [Applause.]
Ms S C VOS: Chairperson, this is the first time that I have had the opportunity to thank every member of this House for affording me the honour and the privilege of serving our country in the Pan-African Parliament. I must also thank my party for placing its trust in me and for its way of allowing me, an obviously white South African, to truly be an African in such a public way, not as a white African, not as a female African, but as African who cares about Africa and all of its peoples, irrespective of their race, class, gender, language, religion, nationality, or whatever other subject matter is used to categorise members of the human race.
Another thank you must go from me to Madam Speaker, to the hon Mahlangu, the hon Hajaig and the hon Madasa. The South African team really was a team of which I was certainly very proud to be a member.
The rich, the diverse and the glorious tapestry of the peoples of the continent of Africa was there for all to see at the second session of the Pan-African Parliament held, as you know, at the Gallagher Estate.
The executive summary report of the South African members of the Parliament has been tabled, as well as its many annexures, and I really urge hon members to study this report and to communicate publicly and privately with those of us whom you have elected to represent you.
It is critical that this Parliament and its members now begin an open and constructive multiparty dialogue on our very visions and expectations on all matters relating to the Pan-African Parliament.
As you are aware, the protocol of the Pan-African Parliament states in an article that members of the Pan-African Parliament shall vote in their personal and independent capacity. So, today in the time that I have, I would like to give members a brief personal perspective of my experience in these early days of this new and extraordinary parliament.
The detail of our work, so far, and I keep emphasising so far, is in the report, the resolutions and the recommendations as set out. That is what we have had to say initially. However, what was it really like for me to be there, and what are some of the issues that are not captured in the report before you, or to my mind not sufficiently emphasised in the report before you? What are my observations, hopes, and frustrations? Because, I must be very honest with you, there is not a day or night that goes by when I do not worry about the fact that I may not be fulfilling my own mandate in the work that I have committed myself to do for the Pan-African Parliament.
The members you have elected to this parliament all feel an individual and collective responsibility to ensure the success of this Parliament, and in tandem, of course, the implementation of the recommendations and resolutions that have been tabled so far.
I have made 10 brief observations. Most of the members of the Pan-African Parliament present from throughout Africa demonstrated extraordinary intellect, experience and commitment to assist in the human, economic and spiritual development of Africa. These were honest men and women of calibre.
They bravely spoke from their hearts of the problems of Africa, past and present, and they were not sparing in their criticisms of Africa’s politicians and its leadership. However, then there were some members, a few, who made no secret of the fact that they had wanted to come to South Africa to further their business interests or to start businesses. They were driving South African cars, and were openly boasting of their properties in this country and their seats were often empty.
In a way, and in the ignorance of their arrogance, to my mind they were walking advertisements of what we have to change regarding the leadership of Africa. The majority of members, though, those whom I have already praised, and who have become new friends, I know also share the concerns that I am sharing with you today. Some members have not conceptualised, as advocate Madasa has just said, that this parliament is a new parliament. It is a uniquely African Parliament, and yet they wanted, as he said, to import old colonial parliamentary structures and processes into the rules and procedures of this new Parliament.
The President, Mrs Mongella, has to be praised for her determination to block this from the start. Although, in truth, it is clear that many still do think in terms of English, French or Arabic power blocs of North, East, South, West and Central. That was coming through all the time.
The Pan-African Parliament lacks the critical capacity to do its work efficiently and effectively. The President, Mrs Mongella, cannot be expected to drive the successful development of this parliament, unless she is given the basic human and economic resources required to do so.
It is clear that there are problems and tensions - I will try to put it delicately - with regard to certain of the leadership of the AU and their commitment to the development and the independence of the Pan-African Parliament. The members you have elected to serve you from this Parliament do not have the necessary support structures to enable them to do their Pan- African parliamentary work.
I have been elected the rapporteur of the Pan-African Parliament’s committee on transport, industry, communications, energy, science and technology. I urgently need assistance to liase with fellow members throughout Africa and with the AU and Nepad to compile and research the documentation required to effectively allow members of the Pan-African Parliament to exercise their mandated oversight roles.
Finally, something has to be done about the image of the Pan-African Parliament. There is an Afropessimistic perception that it is a waste of time, that it is simply pap and gravy. There are people, even in this House, who think that the five of us who have been elected by you earn extra salaries, are getting extra money. There are very damaging perceptions about this Parliament, and we must ensure that this critical initiative is understood and supported and appropriately publicised.
In essence, the Pan-African Parliament will be what the members of parliaments throughout Africa make it to be, because if it fails, it will fail because we, the members of Parliament, have failed it. Thank you. [Applause.] Prof B TUROK: Chairperson, I have no doubt at all that the Pan-African Parliament has already, in its short history, made a major impact both in Africa and abroad. It’s doing that, in my experience – and I have had some experience of this – because it reflects the aspirations of the continent as a whole in a way which is new, which is dynamic and which is quite important.
I want to talk about the vision and mission of the African Parliament. I was not a delegate there. I was an observer at the first session of the Pan- African Parliament in Addis Abeba, and I had the pleasure of attending the opening of the second session in Midrand. So, I’ve had some personal experience of the atmosphere generated in the Pan-African Parliament. It was wonderful to see how Africa’s diversity was reflected in that entirely new situation.
I also want to bring out what has already been said about the President of the Pan-African Parliament, Mrs Gertrude Mongella, who is an outstanding personality on the continent. She shows remarkable leadership, and she is highly respected by everyone.
I’d like to focus on two particular aspects. The first aspect is the Pan- African Parliament as a representative body of the people of Africa. That is a very important issue - the way it represents Africa both on the continent and in the world. The second aspect is the Pan-African Parliament as an institution of parliamentary democracy, and this is something that needs emphasis.
I was in Europe two weeks ago at a conference in Berlin where these two issues were brought to the fore. I want to recount a little bit of what happened there, because it reflects on the point I am making - that the Pan- African Parliament is already making history, not only on the continent but, in fact, globally.
The conference was attended by Mrs Gertrude Mongella, the President of the PAP. She spoke in a most remarkable way and made a tremendous impression as the authentic voice of Africa, and as an elected representative of our parliaments. The conference was clearly very anxious to hear her voice and what she had to say. It came home to me immediately that the stronger and more united the Pan-African Parliament is, the more attention it will attract worldwide. It certainly attracted a great deal of attention at that particular conference.
The conference was attended by senior officials of the German government, by quite a number of German members of parliament, by the Deputy Minister of Development Co-operation, and by about 60 African members of parliament. So, in total there were about 100 people at the conference, which was held in the German parliament, that in itself being quite symbolic. The conference also sent delegations to meet with the German Chancellor and the German Deputy Chancellor. So, clearly, there was something quite important happening there.
Mrs Mongella spoke of the vision of the Pan-African Parliament and of the long tradition on the continent of the aspiration for African unity. This Pan-African Parliament has deep roots in the political history of the continent. She said that the seed was planted long ago, but she also said that the seed did not grow. She thought that the reason the seed of African unity did not grow from the days of Kwame Nkrumah, and even before then, was because the aspirations for African unity were somehow dissipated by the struggle for independence in individual countries and by the struggle for democracy. So, the cause of African unity was somehow lost in the more isolated struggles of individual countries.
She also said that the struggle for independence was a struggle to overcome poverty, disease and ignorance. These, clearly, are some of the items in the vision and mission of the Pan-Africa Parliament. However, she said that the situation had changed now. In trying to explain the origins of the Pan- African Parliament and the dynamic that was driving it, she said that the drive – and this is a very important point – towards globalisation and integration across the world was stimulating Africa to re-examine its own role in the global context.
Global issues, clearly, have become very important. And, as we see from the election in the United States, which has brought back President Bush, this is something that is going to give Africa cause for thought. The election in the US is an example of how global issues make an impact on us, on South Africa, and indeed will do on the whole continent.
As you know, the ANC has congratulated President Bush on his victory, but it’s also clear that the Pan-African Parliament will have something to say on this issue. It’s clear that the Pan-African Parliament will have to relate to all the parties in the US congress and senate. It will also attempt, I hope and believe, to build people-to-people relations between the people of Africa and the people of the United States and, indeed, of Europe and the rest of the North.
The global situation facing Africa is leading to a new political and economic momentum based on the idea of continental and regional unity. This is what lies behind the creation of the African Union, the Pan-African Parliament and, indeed, Nepad.
Mrs Mongella made a speech at that meeting in Berlin that has made a great impact on my mind and that, I feel, will make a great impact inside the Pan- African Parliament itself and on its various committees at the next meeting. What she had to say was this: that there must be an engagement between the Pan-African Parliament and indeed all the parliaments in Africa individually with other parliaments across the world and with continents, and that this should not be a simple event here and there, like the event in Berlin that we attended, but that there should be a process.
Indeed, Mrs Mongella insisted to the German Foreign Ministry and the Ministries of Development Co-operation that having one conference in Berlin
- a few weeks ago - was by no means enough, and that there had to be continual engagement between the Pan-African Parliament and the people in Europe and, indeed, in the North as a whole.
Furthermore, she stressed that we needed a new relationship between Europe in particular and Africa as a whole. We needed, she said, a joint agenda between Europe and Africa, and that we needed too to ensure that we monitored what had been done, what was being done in co-operation between Europe and Africa, and why it was being done.
She made a very strong point: that what was wanted now on the basis of the existence of the Pan-African Parliament were partnerships and not welfare. We needed, she said, a new mindset in Europe; the days of paternalism are over. Europe must focus now not on welfare, but on the genuine opportunities which exist in Africa, because there are real development benefits for all in the development co-operation between Germany in particular and Europe as a whole, as well as the continent. She urged the European parliamentarians that for this to succeed they must counter negative images of Africa in Europe. Too many press stories in journals like The Economist portray a very negative image of Africa.
You all know about the issue of The Economist, which had a map of Africa on the front-page with the heading: “The hopeless continent”. More recently, the African editor of The Economist produced a book about Africa and one of the chapters – I forget the title for the moment – has a very nasty heading about the kind of state that you find in Africa, the tyrannical state or some such label.
She called upon the people of Europe to adopt a new attitude towards Africa as a whole and to the Pan-African Parliament in particular. She also said – and I think this was very important – that Africa now must influence the global agenda. It seems to me that the existence of the Pan-African Parliament provides a wonderful platform for Africa to do exactly that.
And, rather teasingly, Mrs Mongella said to the audience consisting of German members of parliament, officials and Ministers: Why is it that we always read about a European agenda for Africa? Why is there no African agenda for Europe? She turned to the African MPs who were sitting there, many of whom were from Francophone countries who don’t normally engage in this way, and said to them: Why don’t we go away and caucus and develop an African agenda for Europe? In a strange way, the Europeans themselves welcomed this point and there was a loud applause for the idea. Clearly, the South African Parliament could very well develop an agenda for Europe. I think that’s not a bad idea.
So, clearly, what she was arguing for was a new relationship between European parliaments and the Pan-African Parliament on the basis of mutual interest. However, we had to take note of the fact that the European parliamentarians were very concerned about terror and the war on terrorism. This came up time and time again, whereas the African members of parliament at that meeting and elsewhere, as I have already described, were concerned about poverty.
So, Mrs Mongella said: Can’t we find a way of combining these two terribly important issues – the European and indeed the Northern concern with the war on terror and the African concern with the war on poverty? It seems to me that there is a lot to be said for that. Let us come together - Europe and Africa - and examine how the mutual interests and concerns might be reconciled in a common agenda.
I also want to inform the House that I myself happened to be in Germany, because I was part of a delegation of the Nepad contact group of African parliamentarians. I think I reported previously that we had set up a contact group with members of parliament from many African countries on the issue of Nepad. Three of us - a delegate from Zambia, Burundi and me - were asked to go on a tour of the Scandinavian countries to talk about Nepad.
Well, we met with foreign affairs officials in Denmark, Norway and Sweden and also with the parliamentary foreign affairs committees in those countries and had discussions with them. Interestingly enough, the same sort of concerns that were mentioned in Berlin came up in those meetings. I want to convey them to you, because I think they are of major importance for this House.
It’s clear to me that the major donor countries in Europe are reviewing their policies in relation to Africa. There is a huge concern that the old kinds of aid were not always functional, and that there were certain difficulties with the kinds of aid and aid policies that had been developed in the past. Countries like Norway, and foreign affairs and development co- operation Ministries have developed new documents, which were given to us, on what is now called “Economic co-operation and partnership”.
We were quite surprised as a delegation that when these foreign Ministries and Ministries of development co-operation were going into this exercise, the word “parliament” did not occur once. We looked at one of the documents, for example an extensive document done by one of these countries over many years in great detail, and at no point was there a reference to the fact that the parliaments of Africa were also players and stakeholders in the question of European development co-operation and partnership.
So our delegation put this forward and said to them: How can you possibly negotiate co-operation with Africa as a whole without the inclusion of parliamentary consultations and discussions? The point was accepted immediately. It just needed someone to put the point on the table.
The same point was then made by Mrs Mongella in Berlin. It seems to me to be something that the Pan-African Parliament must put forward very strongly. There must be no negotiations between North and South without the involvement of the parliaments of Africa and without the involvement of the Pan-African Parliament in particular. The Pan-African Parliament will be able to make a contribution to these discussions and negotiations. That is not simply a matter for our executives alone; it is not simply an executive issue. The parliaments of Africa must be involved in the notion of parliaments between North and South and development co-operation. Of course, as previous speakers have said, our own parliaments and in particular the Pan-African Parliament will not be able to play an adequate role unless we attend to the question of human, financial and technical resources.
Mrs Mongella also made an important point that I want to convey here. She said that we must now begin to define the roles of different levels of parliaments, the roles of the Pan-African Parliament, the roles of the regional parliaments - Ecowas and so on - and the roles of the national parliaments, and that we must differentiate between their roles and examine exactly what they should do.
Of course, she said, and insisted quite strongly, that a parliament that did not have relations with civil society was not a proper parliament. She insisted that the Pan-African Parliament, in looking forward to its future agenda, must ensure that its relationships with civil society were properly spelt out, otherwise, she said, the Pan-African Parliament would become an elitist institution. This is something that I think we all understand.
I then want to turn to my second point, Chairperson, and that is Parliament as a democratic institution. In our discussions in Europe, and also at the Berlin meeting, and in many other discussions that we have had, we read documents from the World Bank and other institutions of expertise, which call upon Africa to exercise good governance. Good governance has become the new mantra. A colleague of mine in Europe said to me, good governance is a substitute for the word democracy.
Well, I would not want to go that far, but clearly some members of parliament - and this happened in Berlin as well - especially some of the Francophone parliamentarians talked about good governance as though it is simply a matter of getting finances right, as if it is a matter of good administration, and as if you behave according to a certain style which perhaps has been laid down in Europe. Well, it is quite wrong.
The conclusion we arrived at in Berlin, and also at the various meetings that we had in Scandinavia, was that good governance is not a technical question, but primarily a political question. Of course we have to get our finances right, of course we have to get our administration right, but fundamentally, if you do not have a good democratic system and a good democratic parliamentary system, you will not have good governance. In other words, getting only the finances and the administration right is insufficient.
So, the point came across at all these meetings that good governance, the mantra of the World Bank, the IMF and many other international institutions, cannot stand alone as a purely technical issue. Fundamentally it is an issue of the parliamentary system and of democracy. That means that right across Africa we have to have good political parties, good parliaments and good executives, and all three must function together in a democratic parliamentary system, in a way which will be brought together and which will be highlighted by the Pan-African Parliament itself.
And so, colleagues let me wind up by saying that, as one who spent many years in many parts of Africa and who spent many years studying the development economics in many African countries and the political history of the continent, I feel absolutely delighted by firstly, Mrs Mongella, an outstanding leader of the continent, and secondly, by the very substantial progress and vision that has come out of the Pan-African Parliament.
I have really enjoyed talking to you. Thank you.
Mr S F HAASBROEK: Chairperson, hon members, I wish to reiterate that the Pan-African Parliament is an achievement whose moment has irrevocably arrived, and it is gratifying to reflect on some of the achievements during the past session. However, the DA finds it highly regrettable that we are not represented at the Pan-African Parliament. Even the Zimbabwean government allows the MDC to be represented. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S BOTHA): Hon member, may I remind you that you cannot reflect on a decision taken by this House in this session. Thank you. Please continue.
Mr S F HAASBROEK: The DA notes that the Pan-African Parliament called on the AU to exert all its efforts to resolve the conflict and to address the humanitarian needs in Darfur. However, Chairperson, the DA calls on the Pan- African Parliament to treat the conflict in Burundi with the same urgency. In this context we agree with the Pan-African Parliament that the impact of the armed conflict on women and children and the role of women in peace building are important issues to be researched and the results should be implemented as soon as possible.
We also note that the Pan-African Parliament is paying special attention to skills development, and knowledge enhancement through continuing education and capacity-building in partnership with African intellectuals and experts. The DA is concerned about the fact that the President of the Pan- African Parliament, Getrude Mongella, has called for private sector funding of the Pan-African Parliament in the form of mining and other such levies. Such a call has to be considered premature as many of the member states of the Pan-African Parliament themselves have failed to meet their financial obligations.
At the AU summit in July this year, it was reported that only 13 of the 53 member countries have paid their dues. The DA welcomes initiatives of the African continent such as the Pan-African Parliament, as long as they are able to make substantive improvements in the lives of all Africans.
However, we firmly believe that institutions such as the Pan-African Parliament must constitute a collective effort by all African states, where all the necessary financial responsibilities are shared, and that no single state such as South Africa must be expected to shoulder the burden alone. The DA therefore believes that the Pan-African Parliament must ensure that there is a partnership of equals, where all members of the Pan-African Parliament make a contribution based on their ability to do so. Where a member state is genuinely unable to meet its obligations, solutions must be found to ensure that they are able to make a contribution that they can afford. However, in no way should member states simply be absolved of all their responsibilities.
The DA will continue to monitor developments in this regard, and we will work to ensure that neither the South African taxpayer, nor the private sector is unduly prejudiced by funding proposals of the Pan-African Parliament. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr L W GREYLING: Thank you, Chair. The challenges facing the African continent are immense. This is something that I witnessed for the first time when I travelled through 26 African countries. Although I am not a PAP delegate, I do share the pride of hon Vos and hon Turok at the creation of this institution in forming common solutions to our shared problems.
The ID also finds it very heartening that the first meeting of the Pan- African Parliament was characterised by strong positions and resolutions being taken on a variety of issues. In particular, the ID welcomes the strong stance that was taken on peace and security issues, and the resolution that a delegation be sent to the Darfur region to assess the human rights tragedy occurring there.
We would motivate that this delegation be sent as soon as possible, and that its recommendations are acted upon. The ID is also heartened by the fact that the Pan-African Parliament recognises the problem of corruption, and urge all of its members to join the African Parliamentary Network Against Corruption. The ID leader, Patricia De Lille, was in fact the first and the only South African parliamentarian to join this network last year.
The South African Parliament should therefore follow the lead of the Pan- African Parliament, and urge all of its members to join this important network aimed at eradicating the scourge of corruption in our country and on our continent. It is important for the Pan-African Parliament to be not only a moral voice, but also a voice of the African people.
The ID would strongly motivate for this institution and its resolutions to be informed by the feelings of all African people. The ID would like to see the work of this institution publicised at a local level, and that all of us in this House take the information to our constituency offices and disseminate it.
At this early stage of its history, the PAP must ensure that it becomes thoroughly rooted in the people of this continent, and that they are afforded the opportunities to share their experiences and vision for the continent. Only in this way will we be able to bridge the divide between political institutions and the people that all too often exist on this continent. I thank you.
Dr P W A MULDER: Mev die Voorsitter, namens die VF Plus wil ons dankie sê vir ’n baie volledige verslag oor wat gebeur het by die Afrika-Parlement. Dit gee ’n mens insig in wat daar gebeur het.
Tydens die Koue Oorlog was Afrika ’n belangrike kontinent, want Afrika kon die balans hou in ’n internasionale forum tussen die Ooste en die Weste. Na die Koue Oorlog, in die nuwe wêreld, is Afrika nie meer belangrik nie.
Nou is daar groot ekonomiese blokke wat met mekaar kompeteer. Die Europese Unie is besig met hul sake; Amerika, Mexiko en Kanada kompeteer aan die eenkant, en dan die Oosterse blok met Japan, Korea en China aan die ander kant. In hierdie geveg ignoreer almal vir Afrika.
Die punt wat ek probeer maak, is dat as ons in Afrika nie onsself kan red nie, ekonomies en andersins, sal niemand anders dit doen nie. Dit is teen hierdie agtergrond wat die VF Plus die stigting van die Afrika-Unie en die Pan-Afrika Parlement baie sterk steun en glo dis die instrumente wat moet slaag sodat ons onsself kan red.
Ons stem ook saam met die verskillende strategiese doelwitte soos hulle uiteengesit is. Al wat ons wel wil doen, is om realisme te bepleit. Daar is baie idealisme en sonder idealisme kom jy nêrens nie, maar sonder realisme gaan ons ook nie daarby uitkom nie. Afrika sal konsensus moet kry oor ’n gedeelde visie en agenda vir die toekoms waaroor ons almal saamstem.
Ekonomiese samewerking in Afrika is nodig, maar ons sal moet klein begin. Op ekonomiese vlak sal ons moet begin, en samewerking op streeksvlak is binne ons bereik. In SADC, in Suidelike Afrika, het ons reeds sukses daarmee. Ons sal moet sorg vir ’n geïntegreerde infrastruktuur. Dis is nodig, dis belangrik, dis prakties haalbaar. Suid-Afrika speel ’n groot rol in elektriese kragnetwerke en in met spoorverbindings in Suidelike Afrika.
Wat is ons bekommernis as VF Plus? Dit is dat die Afrika-Unie, en veral die Afrika-Parlement, op so ’n groot skaal aangepak word dat dit dalk kan misluk. Ons moet eerder klein begin en dan groei, as wat ons hierdie reuse ideale het wat in die grond wegsink omdat ons die ding te groot aangepak het. Die Europese Unie het klein begin en gegroei. Ons moet nie dink ons kan heel groot begin nie, want dan gaan ons misluk.
Mevrou, ons sal graag wil weet wat gaan die uitgawes vir die volgende vyf jaar wees, asook wat daarmee saamgaan? Afrika moet homself red. As ons misluk, gaan ons nie noodwendig ’n tweede kans kry nie. Dit is ons enigste kans. Dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Dr P W A MULDER: Madam Chair, on behalf of the FF Plus we wish to thank you for a very comprehensive report on what took place at the African Parliament. It gives one an insight as to what transpired.
During the Cold War Africa became an important continent, because Africa could maintain the balance in an international forum between the East and the West. After the Cold War, in the new world, Africa is no longer important.
Now there are large economic blocs that compete with each other. The European Union is busy with its own business; America, Mexico and Canada are competing on the one side; and the Asian bloc with Japan, Korea and China on the other. In this battle everyone is ignoring Africa.
The point that I am trying to make is that if we in Africa cannot save ourselves, economically and otherwise, nobody else will do it. It is against this background that the FF Plus very strongly supports the establishment of the African Union and the Pan-African Parliament, and we believe that these are the instruments that have to succeed in order for us to save ourselves.
We also agree with the different strategic objectives as expounded. What we want to do, though, is to plead for realism. There is plenty of idealism, and without it you will not progress, but without realism we shall not get there either. Africa must reach consensus on a shared vision and agenda for the future, agreed upon by all.
Economic co-operation in Africa is necessary, but we have to start on a small scale. We shall have to start at the economic level, and co-operation on street level is within our reach. Within SADC, in Southern Africa, we have already achieved success in this regard. We shall have to provide for an integrated infrastructure. It is necessary, important and is practically attainable. South Africa plays an important role with its electrical power supply networks and railway connections in Southern Africa.
What is our concern as the FF Plus? It is that the African Union, and specifically the African Parliament, is being engaged on such a large scale that it could possibly fail. We should rather start on a smaller scale and grow, than having these huge ideals that might just collapse and fade because we started this off too big. The European Union started off very small and later expanded. We should not think that we can have this elaborate start, just to be a failure in the end.
We would like to know, for the next five years, what will the concomitant expenses be if Africa has to save itself. If we fail, we shall not necessarily be given a second chance. This is our one and only chance. Thank you.]
Dr S E M PHEKO: Izwe lethu! Deputy Chair, first of all, let me congratulate members of the Pan-African Parliament on the second ordinary session of the Pan-African Parliament. I’m sure our own members from this House have learnt a great deal from interacting with their colleagues from the continent.
The PAC supports the report. We agree that members of the Pan- African Parliament must rise to the many challenges Africa and its people are facing. Indeed, many of our people in our continent are looking to the Pan- African Parliament for solutions to Africa’s problems. It is commendable to note that the debate was preceded by a discussion of the vision, mission and the strategic plan of the Africa Union, which is the mother of this Parliament.
The PAC appreciates the resolutions on the recommendations passed, such as the conflict resolution; the resolution on peace and security and the resolution on women and children in armed conflict. The resolution for the Pan-African Parliament to go to the Darfur region in Sudan for fact-finding is a step in the right direction, and so is the one calling on members of the African Parliament to become members of the African Parliamentarians’ Network Against Corruption.
I want to close by saying that the PAC is the pace setter and reliable political barometer in this country, whether it is on land issues, Pan- Africanism, antiprivatisation or free education. The PAC has been vindicated today against those who call Pan-Africanists racists, and believe that the ideas such as the Pan-African Parliament are instances of daydreaming. Long live Nkrumah! Long live Sobukwe! Long live Sylvester Williams! Long live George Padmore! Long live the PAC!
Ms S RAJBALLY: Thank you, Madam Chair. It is indeed an honour and privilege for us here in South Africa to have hosted the second ordinary session of the Pan-African Parliament from 16 September to 1 October 2004. This was certainly history in itself.
The MF would like to take this opportunity to thank our hon President, who was an exquisite host, as well as the hon Ms B Mbete, hon M J Mahlangu, hon F Hajaig, hon S Vos and hon Z L Madasa. They proudly represented South Africa in this session of the Pan-African Parliament.
Having looked at the Pan-African Parliament’s report, the MF acknowledges that its second ordinary session was quite fruitful as a number of key issues of African concern were earnestly addressed. In view of the key issues discussed, it appears that rules on procedure appear to be intact, including the voting device of the Chamber.
The vision, mission and strategic plan of the AU appears to have been addressed adequately, and the role of PAP in Africa outlined effectively.
Further, the budget set for 2005 is also sufficient. It is also acknowledged that a number of committees and regional caucuses were established during this session. The MF is confident that South African members of the PAP shall serve proudly on the committees they are assigned to.
In view of the resolutions, the MF is very pleased with the stance PAP is taking and believes that PAP is on the right track. This sentiment also applies to the recommendations made.
The MF also has no problem endorsing the EPRM and PAP’s decision to send a fact-finding mission to Darfur. We fully support the members of PAP and trust that they are going to do a fine job. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Ms L JACOBUS: Thank you, hon Chairperson, for the opportunity to participate in this debate as we engage in the report of the recent sitting of the Pan-African Parliament.
The establishment of the Pan-African Parliament was indeed a historic moment for Africa, and the amount of work done by all thus far should indeed be commended. It is an illustration of the commitment of all members of the Pan-African Parliament and their respective countries in realising the African agenda and creating a better life for the peoples of Africa.
May I also take this opportunity to congratulate our delegation, very ably led by our Speaker, and wish them well in their term of office and future deliberations in the Pan-African Parliament. At the first sitting of the Pan-African Parliament in its new host country, South Africa of course, our President said the following to the delegates gathered at the plenary, and I quote:
The masses know the reality of civil wars, genocide, the conflicts that brought untold suffering to the innocent, the economic decay, social disintegration and cultural alienation that have defined the lives of many Africans. They know what others have done, which imposed on them the curse of poverty, hunger, famine, disease and underdevelopment. The African masses look to the Pan-African Parliament to change all that.
I am convinced it was with these words in mind that the PAP adopted a resolution on conflict resolution in Sudan and another on peace and stability, women and children in armed conflict. These two resolutions I would view as particularly important since there are still various parts of the continent dogged by armed conflict and hunger, and poverty is still the order of day.
Most of us in this House will agree that these conflicts in various regions of the continent are, in many instances, about resources and the control thereof. It must also be noted that these conflicts are not always domestically propagated or instigated, but that foreign hands may have their fingers in the pie - those who wish to rob our continent of her wealth and mineral and natural resources. It is also unfortunate that it is always the poor, the vulnerable, women and children who form the bulk of casualties in these conflicts.
The ANC Today of 18 to 24 June 2004, stated:
The national vision of building a united, nonracial, nonsexest and prosperous society is also relevant to our vision for Africa. Coupled with this is the understanding that socioeconomic development cannot take place without political peace and stability.
On the other hand, it would also be very difficult to achieve political peace and stability without socioeconomic development. It is therefore two sides of the same coin. We must, therefore, bear in mind that the national security of any country is closely linked to the human security of its people. Interventions to achieve peace and stability should therefore include socioeconomic development, poverty and other challenges related thereto.
At the national policy conference of the ANC, held in September 2002, in a resolution on peace, stability and an end to conflict, we committed ourselves to building and strengthening the institution of the AU and Nepad, aimed at the peaceful resolution of conflicts. I am therefore particularly happy that this resolution has found its way into the Pan- African Parliament.
Central to the oversight role of the PAP should therefore be the socioeconomic development of all states; secondly, the promotion of peace, stability and democracy throughout the continent; and, thirdly, the creation of an environment in which all states will achieve their full potential.
One of the recommendations of the Pan-African Parliament is support for the establishment of an African stand-by force as one of the intervention tools for peacekeeping and conflict resolution. Since members of this force will be members of their respective countries’ defence forces and will therefore not converge at a central point as a super army, I would further recommend that issues of a uniform training programme and central co-ordination should be attended to as matters of urgency. I don’t think we would want to find ourselves in a situation in which each of the 51 countries has a different understanding of the role and mandate of the African stand-by force in the event of any deployment.
In conclusion, as the ANC, I think I can safely say that we welcome and endorse the report as tabled, and we wish the Pan-African Parliament well in its endeavours of creating a better Africa and indeed a better world. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
THE RESTRUCTURING OF THE UNITED NATIONS AND ITS AGENCIES TO SERVE AND PROTECT THE POOR OF THE WORLD, WHO CONSTITUTE THE MAJORITY OF HUMANITY (Subject for Discussion – Mr D J Sithole)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): May I call on the speaker? Can the Whips enlighten me as to the absence of the speaker?
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Could we proceed to the next speaker?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Thank you, I’ll do that. Then I call Mr Labuschagne, the hon Labuschagne.
Mr L B LABUSCHAGNE: Madam Chairperson, the question that we must ask ourselves is whether the United Nations is relevant. The answer is, obviously, yes, but the structures are not. As Kofi Annan said, and I quote:
All of us know that there are new threats that must be faced or perhaps old threats in new and dangerous combinations, new forms of terrorism and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. But while some consider those threats as self-evidently the main challenge to world peace and security, others feel more immediately menaced by small arms employed in civil conflict or by so-called soft threats.
Of course, these soft threats will include persistence of extreme poverty, disparity of income, infectious diseases such as HIV/Aids, climate change etc, and Mr Annan finally added, and I quote again: “the struggle for human rights, democracy and good governance”.
The DA concurs completely with the sentiments of the great UN Secretary- General, and we look forward to the report of the UN Secretary-General’s High-Level Panel on Threats, Challenges and Change, which is due in December 2004.
The DA fully supports United Nations reform, particularly the need for an expanded Security Council and the review of the veto. We cannot accept the concept of first and second-class permanent members of the UN. In recognition of the importance of Africa, we unreservedly support the concept of a permanent seat for Africa and consequently, we support the government in seeking that seat for South Africa.
We must, of course, remember that Africa faces stiff competition from other regions, the Middle East, Asia, Latin America and even from individual countries as they jockey for their interests. There is a great onus on Africa to fulfil the promise of the renaissance and Kofi Annan’s requirements of human rights, democracy and good governance.
South Africa is the leading democracy on our continent and we cannot expect responsible members of the United Nations to seriously consider claims by undemocratic states calling for a democratised United Nations. Should countries whose failing human rights records and lack of respect for democracy play leading roles in permanent multilateral institutions, and which profess to be of a democratic nature? Should they join the team if they don’t follow the rules? Is it a credit to a soccer team or any other team to be filled with dirty players?
We should ask ourselves: Why has the role of multilateralism diminished? Why are certain nations ignoring a system which holds so many promises? Can a country be blamed if all efforts to act multilaterally are thwarted by inertia and prevarication? Had the UN acted swiftly, promptly and effectively, would President Bush have invaded Iraq? An effective multilateral approach would have been much better. Multilateralism, however, must never be used as an excuse for inaction.
The world has changed since 1945. The Cold War is over and, most importantly, we have seen Africa coming of age with the demise of colonialism, as well as the birth of other new countries that now form the basis of NAM. The UN Security Council reflects old power realities and not the geopolitical reality of this century, and we find that the majority of the world’s population is not represented. South Africa, India, Brazil are cases in point. The winner-takes-all sentiment that dominated the postwar period should now be replaced with “all must be winners in our new century”.
A rules-based global, economic, social and political system that provides security, certainty and predictability is essential. In our need for review, we must be prepared to act firmly and swiftly in crises that involve human rights, suffering, death and genocide. We cannot afford to be overly sensitive to the sensitivities of a few presidents and their henchmen, particularly undemocratic ones, when tens of thousands are dying. Are we going to be prepared to put our money where our mouths are? These are tough choices and serious commitments that must be faced if we are to take up the challenge.
The UN is often the only vehicle where poor, small and marginalised nations have a voice, and we must ensure that they will always be heard. In the past, mechanisms existed where liberation movements and even individuals could petition the UN; such avenues must be reopened. Where can the oppressed go when their governments do not heed them or provide channels to be heard? It worked in the past; it must be made to work again. A democratic global society must not exclude the global individual.
In conclusion, let us hope that reform of the UN will not be delayed. We and other members of the so-called developing world have waited long enough. Thank you. [Applause].
Mr K O BAPELA: Thank you, Chairperson. History tells us that the first person to coin the name “United Nations” was a United States President, Franklin Roosevelt. It was first used in the declaration by the United Nations on 1 January 1942 during the Second World War when representatives of 26 nations pledged their governments to continue fighting together. They referred to that as the “axis of powers” and that was during the time of fascism.
The forerunner to the United Nations was the League of Nations, an organisation conceived in similar circumstances during the First World War. It was established in 1919, under the Treaty of Versailles, to promote international co-operation and to achieve peace and security. As you will know, it was through that Treaty of Versailles that Africa was annexed, had its borders determined and split into colonies of the powerful states of the time. The League of Nations ceased to exist or ceased its activities after failing to prevent the Second World War.
In 1945, representatives of 50 countries met in San Francisco at the United Nations Conference on International Organisations to draw up the United Nations Charter. South Africa was a founding member of the original 50 member states of the United Nations, including the United States, United Kingdom, Soviet Union, China and Poland joined soon after the signing of the charter to be 51st member of the original members.
The United Nations officially came into existence on 24 October 1945. Today, the United Nations is an international organisation comprising of 191 member states - the “town hall of global affairs”, as they call it. Its work affects our life everyday. As the provider of information on practically every area of human activity, it gives everyone something to learn.
As stated in the charter, the mandates of the United Nations are, amongst others: to save succeeding generations from the scourge of war, which occurred twice in our lifetime. While it says, “in our lifetime”, many of us were not yet born during the First World War and even during the Second World War, many were only being born, except the veterans in this House. Other mandates are to affirm faith in fundamental human rights, in the dignity of the human person, in the equal rights of men and women and of nations large and small; to be equal; to establish conditions under which justice and respect for the obligations arising from treaties and other sources of international law can be maintained; to promote social progress and better standards of life in larger freedom.
The charter continues and says, “for these ends, to practice tolerance and live together in peace with one another as good neighbours; to unite our strength to maintain international peace and security; to ensure by the acceptance of principles and the institutions of methods that arms force shall not be used, save in the common interest; and, to employ international machinery for the promotion of the economic and social advancement of all peoples”. I have characterised or I have given the background on the United Nations and it’s mandate.
The poor of the world continue to be poor and at the same time, the poor are not fully protected from poverty, disease, conflicts caused by poverty and greed, and lack of development. According to statistics and facts, most poor people live in the developing countries in Latin America, in Africa - mainly sub-Sahara - and also in Asia. It is estimated that two-thirds of the world’s population, which is 6 billion, is vulnerable.
The ANC, through its leaders, in conferences, through its cadres and activists, as early as 1914 - before the formation of the League of Nations – had already advocated a just world order. Pixley ka Isaka Seme, a leader of the ANC at the time, had this to say about the new world order:
Oh! How I long for that day, when darkness and gloom shall have passed away because the righteousness has risen with the healing in his hand. This shall be the dawning of a brighter day for the people of the world.
The ANC, in its 1997 national conference in Mafikeng, characterised the situation in South Africa, the transition to democracy and our transformation process in its international context in the strategy and tactics, as follows:
The liberation of South Africa is both a local expression of a changing world and part of the catalyst to renewed efforts aimed at attaining international consensus on the most urgent questions facing humanity. Our transition was an element of dynamic political process of a world redefining itself with the end of the Cold War. To the extent that the new global situation has not resolved the contradictions within and among nations, between poverty and opulence; to the extent that ethnic, religious and other tensions continue to ravage parts of the globe; to this extent and more, the transformation taking place in our own country is closely intertwined with the search for a new world order.
The ANC, in 1999, in its election manifesto again boldly expressed and mapped a programme to build a better world and Africa. The ANC called for the reform and transformation of the United Nations and its agencies, and the Bretton Woods institutions, that is the World Bank, the International Monetary Fund, the World Trade Organisation and others.
Today, in 2004, the call for transformation of this institution remains valid, as the world is engaging in the same discussion to transform its global institution. The recent developments in our history have even made it urgent that we quickly move to transform the UN, its agencies and other institutions. For example, in the Rwanda massacre and failure by the UN to respond, millions of lives lost could have been saved; the war in Iraq and calamity in that country could have been avoided, where two powerful nations defied logic and undermined the UN and proceeded alone in the so- called coalition of the willing.
The conflict in the Middle East and the unresolved question of Western Sahara remain on the agenda because some amongst the nations refuse to co- operate with the United Nations. Therefore, the call to reform and transform the United Nations is more urgent and we need to do that. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M B SKOSANA: Thank you, Madam Chair. Hon members, since the office years of Excellencies Dag Hammarskjöld, General U Thant, Kurt Waldheim, Boutros Boutros-Ghali to Kofi Annan, the agenda and responsibilities of the United Nations grew beyond the decisions taken at Dumbarton Oaks Conference in
- The charter, which was subsequently agreed to at the San Francisco conference between April and June 1945, was to establish an association of sovereign states to succeed the League of Nations and maintain international peace and security, and to achieve global co-operation in solving problems of economic and cultural nature.
Then, it was hoped that this would be sufficient to provide the effective approaches to regulate world affairs to the satisfaction of all member states, rich and poor. However, the disintegration of European empires, the inevitable process of decolonisation, the wars and civil strife for political independence, the ravaging impact of poverty, underdevelopment and diseases among billions of the poor demanded that world leaders face other global and regional challenges, other than conflicts and terror.
This is the reason why South Africa brings to the international dialogue on the future of the United Nations, not only the restructuring of the UN and it’s organs, but also the transformation of the inequitable system of global economic order, which concentrates the wealth in favour of the rich nations at the expense of the poor ones.
This conspicuous absence of common concern for social justice for the masses in the Third World continues to be in contradiction with the UN Millennium Declaration which states that, among other things, and I quote:
We have a collective responsibility to uphold the principles of human
dignity, equality and equity at the global level. As leaders, we have
a duty therefore to all the world’s people, especially the most
vulnerable, in particular the children of the world to whom the future
belongs.
Our position is and will continue to be that world peace and stability will not be attained through the total exclusion of the war against poverty and underdevelopment. The powerful and rich nations must have the political will now to combine their interests with the needs of the powerless and the poor nations. The challenges of the poor must now be the challenges of the rich nations and the powerful - what President Mbeki, is his address to the United Nations on 22 September 2004, New York, USA, referred to as a change in the system of global governance. And, former President William Tolbert saw this as a new consciousness emerging from the less developed countries. However, both were strongly urging for a radical rethink of the diplomatic tradition first propounded by Lord Palmerstone, and later Sir Winton Churchill, then Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger, that countries do not have eternal enemies or perpetual friends, but that their interests are eternal and perpetual. In other words, the strong must do what they will and the weak must suffer what they must suffer.
In contrast, what we are saying now is that poverty and underdevelopment should be eternal and perpetual to both the powerful and the powerless nations. A significant part of the answer, we believe, lies in the restructuring and the revitalisation of the UN and it’s organs. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs M A A NJOBE: Chairperson, peacekeeping remains the overriding concern of the United Nations and its endeavours to perform its task given to it after World War II. In addition, the United Nations and its family of agencies is engaged in a large variety of other activities, some for which it has been awarded several Noble Peace Prizes over the years. One of such UN’s activities is the alleviation of poverty and economic development.
According to the UN’s own assessment of its achievements, more attention and resources have been devoted to the promotion of development of human skills and potential; and disbursements, including loans and grants, amount to more than US$10 billion. The United Nations’ Development Programme, UNDP, supports more than 5 000 agricultural projects worldwide with a budget of US$1,3 billion. The World Bank has given out US$333 billion in loans for development since 1946.
Unicef spends more than US$800 million a year on nutrition, health care, basic education, immunisation etc in 138 countries. Since 1951 the UN High Commissioner has aided more than 30 million refugees, about half of whom are women and children. The Africa Project Development Facility has financed small businesses in 25 countries, completed 130 projects with an investment of US$233 million and created 13 000 new jobs.
Unifem, that is the United Nations Development Fund for Women, and the International Research and Training Institute for the Advancement of Women have supported programmes and projects to improve the quality of life of women in more than 100 countries. These statistics are provided by the UN itself. However, the question is: Is this enough, particularly when we consider the fact that the world is populated by 6 billion people, two- thirds of whom - and that means 4 billion - live in poverty?
Many of the poor are to be found in areas of conflict, or where there has been conflict either between nations or within nations. Africa is not spared this scourge. Despite the numerous UN aid programmes, and as correctly noted by the ANC conference held in Stellenbosch in 2002, I quote:
The world remains divided between the rich developed nations and the poor developing nations. This gap is widening, as is the gap between the rich and poor within all societies. The South African reality of a divided society, one section being rich and well-resourced, and the other poor and underresourced, reflects this international dichotomy.
At its 1997 Mafikeng conference, the ANC also noted that, and I quote:
The process of globalisation is uneven, leading to a widening gap between the rich and the poor, both in developing and industrialised countries.
The policies of the free market have demonstrated themselves to be hopelessly incapable of redistributing wealth in order to eradicate poverty and disease, and to address the social basic needs of the majority of the world population today. The African continent, particularly sub-Saharan Africa benefits least from the process of globalisation. Instead, it has experienced a general decline in living standards, and poverty is on the increase.
One of the reasons cited for this worsening situation, that is the poor becoming poorer, is that some UN member states, especially those in the Security Council, lack the political will to resolve international and national conflicts. President Thabo Mbeki, in his address to the recent UN Assembly, noted that this world organisation has not produced the grand results expected from its vision, a vision of, and I quote, “a world of peace, free of war; a world characterised by shared prosperity, free of poverty”. He attributed this failure to the UN’s inability to seriously confront the difficult issues that relate to the uses and, perhaps, abuses of power.
The African Union, meanwhile, is demonstrating to the world that where there is political will, both international and national, conflicts can be resolved, as demonstrated by the efforts to resolve conflicts in the DRC, Burundi, Rwanda and elsewhere. With South Africa now venturing into one of the worst conflicts in the world, between Israel and Palestine, there is definitely hope for the poor in that region.
While all UN members are agreed that both terrorism and poverty are a serious threat to the world’s population, however, emphasis by the powerful and disempowered nations differs. The wealthy and powerful nations see terrorism as a central principal threat and challenge and because they are powerful, their prioritisation assumes a global context. The poor and disempowered nations see poverty as the central principal threat and challenge to humanity but do not have the means to directly respond to the threat.
In conclusion then, the ANC is saying, rather than wealthy nations wielding power over poor nations on the question of terrorism - I must emphasise here that the ANC condemns terrorism - we believe that there should be a multilateral campaign with a comprehensive programme to combat terrorism, but also to address the root causes.
On multilateral institutions, the ANC notes that most do not serve the interests of the poor and therefore there is a need to redefine the mandates of these institutions. For example, the World Bank and the IMF should focus on fighting poverty and assisting in building the economies of the developing countries. The UN should restructure and democratise.
Lastly, the ANC believes that the process of globalisation can be used to eradicate poverty if all nations strive towards achieving peace and stability. Conflicts do result in displacement of people and, therefore, they worsen the suffering of the poor. As presently structured and through the way it functions, the UN cannot adequately address the real roots of poverty. Therefore, it must transform. The developing world seeks partnerships rather than conditional donor aid. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs P DE LILLE: Chairperson, the debate over whether Africa deserves a seat on the all-powerful United Nations Security Council is far more important than a beauty contest and a struggle for prestige between some of Africa’s pivotal states: South Africa, Nigeria, Egypt or Senegal and other aspiring states. It is fundamentally about the nature of power in the world, about legitimacy in the global order and giving a voice to the voiceless in world affairs.
The notion of permanent member states on the Security Council stems directly from the idea of winners and losers at the end of the Second World War, but there has always been something wrong with this composition. What should underline the restructuring process are common norms and values of both national and international democratic governance, peace, security, economic integration and collective security.
If the world order is to be stabilised and democratised, there will have to be a greater effort at bringing about a rule-based order, an order that is able to convince rich and poor and big and small to play by legitimately arrived rules. It is only through such a rule-based multilateral order that both the developed and developing countries can defend their interests and their rights.
However, the UN is not the only organisation to be transformed. It is also important to transform the broader global governance architecture. The entire unaccountable Bretton Woods Institutions - the World Bank, the IMF, the World Trade Organisation - should not only be brought back into the UN fold, but these institutions too need transformation. The UN will have to fight hard to reassert its own sovereignty and for the accountability of these other bodies. I thank you. [Applause.]
Dr P W A MULDER: Geagte Voorsitter, die Verenigde Nasies het in 1945, net na die Tweede Wêreldoorlog, tot stand gekom. Daarom is die Verenigde Nasies grootliks ’n produk van die magsverhoudinge in die internasionale politiek van daardie tyd. Veral die Veiligheidsraad, met sy vetoreg, illustreer dit perfek.
Vandag is ons in ’n nuwe wêreld met nuwe magsverhoudinge. Kom ek gee vir u een voorbeeld: Duitsland en Japan, wat na 1945 totaal onaanvaarbaar was as die ou vyande, is vandag ekonomiese reuse wat nie geïgnoreer kan word as daar oor internasionale ekonomiese aangeleenthede, in watter verhouding ookal, gepraat word nie. Daarom is die VF Plus ten gunste van ’n herstrukturering van die Verenigde Nasies om hierdie nuwe magsverhoudinge weer te gee.
Ek dink egter ons moet eerlik met mekaar wees. Daar is twee werklikhede om in ag te neem as ons werklik wil sukses hê uit ’n Suid-Afrikaanse oogpunt. Die eerste werklikheid: Die Verenigde State van Amerika maak tans die grootste finansiële bydrae tot die Verenigde Nasies en het ’n vetoreg in die Veiligheidsraad. Sonder die samewerking van die Verenigde State sal die Verenigde Nasies nie geherstruktureer kan word nie. Dis ’n harde werklikheid wat ons nie kan ignoreer nie, veral nie in hierdie Huis waar daar maklik kritiek uitgespreek word en aan Amerika klappe uitgedeel word nie. Ons sal nie daarby verby kom nie.
Die tweede werklikheid: Afrika sal moet duidelikheid kry oor presies hoe ons die Verenigde Nasies wil herstruktureer. Daar is tans baie verskillende menings en baie verskillende standpunte. Uit die VF Plus se oogpunt, dink ons nie dis verkeerd dat elke kontinent minstens sittingsregte op die Veiligheidsraad kry nie. Ons dink ook nie dat dit verkeerd is dat daar nuwe vetoregte kom nie – ook vir Afrika.
Die werklikheid is dan egter dat Afrika moet besluit presies hoe hy dit wil hê. Wie gaan ons daar verteenwoordig? Is dit dan nou Nigerië, Egipte of Senekal, en is ons strukture - en ek praat ook van die Pan-Afrikaanse Parlement - al sover ontwikkel dat ons duidelikheid kan kry?
Daar is netnou gesê dat die Pan-Afrika Parlement se slagspreuk “One Parliament, one voice” is. Die tweede werklikheid is dat as ons nie “one voice” rondom die Verenigde Nasies se herstrukturering het nie, gaan die wêreld ons ignoreer. Ek dank u. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Dr P W A MULDER: Hon Chairperson, the United Nations was established in 1945, just after the Second World War. That is why the United Nations is to a large extent a product of the balance of the power in the international politics of that time. The Security Council, with its veto rights, illustrates this perfectly.
Today we live in a new world with a new balance of power. Let met give you an example: Germany and Japan, who were completely unacceptable as the old enemies after 1945, are today economic giants that cannot be ignored when international economic affairs, in whatever relation, are mentioned. The FF Plus is therefore in favour of restructuring the United Nations in order to reflect the new balance of power.
However, I think we have to be honest with one another. There are two realities that we have to consider if we really want to be successful from a South African point of view. The first reality: The United States of America is currently the largest financial contributor to the United Nations and has veto rights in the Security Council. Without the co- operation of the United States the transformation of the United Nations will not be possible. This is a hard reality that we cannot ignore, in particular also in this House where America is easily criticised and cuffed. We will not be able to get past this.
The second reality: Africa will have to get clarity on exactly how we want to restructure the United Nations. At present there are many different opinions and views. From the FF Plus’s point of view, we do not think it is wrong that every continent should at least have the right to a seat on the Security Council. We also do not think that it will be wrong if new veto rights are to be established – also for Africa.
However, the reality is that Africa must then decide exactly how they want it. Who will represent us there? Will it be Nigeria, Egypt or Senegal, and are our structures – and I am also talking about the Pan-African Parliament – advanced enough for us to get clarity on this?
It was mentioned just now that the Pan-African Parliament’s slogan is “One Parliament, one voice”. The second reality is that we will be ignored by the world if we do not speak with “one voice” on the restructuring of the United Nations. I thank you. [Applause.]]
Ms K R MAGAU: Chairperson, hon members, a week ago, when responding to a parliamentary question on what role the government and the people of South Africa must play in establishing a united movement of the people of the world to create a better world, the hon President of South Africa said:
Today we are faced with a world characterised by an uneven
economic and social order; a world where the voice of the
majority of the people of the world, who are also poor, is
silenced by the voice of a powerful few. It is a world dominated
by a single world power; a world where terrorism is not a far-
fetched threat, but a reality that visits many innocent people,
especially children and women.
In this world, we are faced with illegal wars, suicide bombings,
illegal regime changes and extra-judicial killings. This is a
world where a tiny minority lives in extreme opulence, while the
overwhelming majority ekes out a living of acute poverty.
My brief is about transforming or reforming the United Nations and its agencies, and I believe the above quote from our own President gives us a clear picture of the world today and why we should pursue debates on the United Nations reform and its agencies.
The background information about the establishment of the United Nations has already been provided by speakers before me. I will speak about the United Nations Security Council and the need for it to be reformed in an attempt to do away with the world that has been depicted above.
Briefly, I will talk about the composition of the United Nations Security Council. It consists of 15 members of the United Nations and the following countries are permanent members, that is the Republic of China, France, Russia, Great Britain and America. The Assembly also elects 10 other members of the United Nations to be nonpermanent members.
The Security Council’s primary responsibility is the maintenance of international peace and security. Its functions are: To investigate any dispute or situation that might lead to international friction, to recommend methods of adjusting such disputes or terms of settlement and to formulate plans for the establishment of a system to regulate armaments.
The Security Council has the noble ideals of bringing peace and security to the world, but these noble ideals and objectives will never be realised as long as the Security Council’s operations are based on the context that their interventions should not in any way tamper with the interests or the sphere of influence of the world’s powerful countries, as is the case currently. The veto power enjoyed by these powerful countries defeat democratic processes.
This then explains why the Security Council’s intervention is exclusive in some cases. I’ll give an example. More than 800 000 innocent people died in Rwanda in a hundred days while the world sat back and watched, but in the Palestine and Israel situation, where the Security Council has another interest, they are highly involved in making sure that the issues and the problems there are resolved.
Representation in this Security Council is not calculated according to membership. For example, developing countries now make up more than two thirds of the total of the UN membership, but are grossly underrepresented on the Security Council. This can be explained by the fact that many did not exist as sovereign independent states at the time that the organisation was formed. It is on this basis that developing countries argue that the Security Council is not reflective of the current realities of the post- Cold-War situation.
Therefore, representation of the developing countries in the Security Council is now more important than ever before. The more representative the council, the more legitimate its actions will seem and the easier it will be to build consensus and have actions carried out.
To be able to respond to the challenges of the world today, the Security Council also has to be democratised. To truly democratise the council, we need to advocate for the creation of regional seats and also consider expanding the Security Council to a total of about 26 members.
We therefore call for a reformed Security Council that has an increased number of permanent seats, which will have improved transparency in its decision-making, and will ensure equitable representation of all UN member states. It should not be forgotten that the UN is an institution created by its members, as is the Security Council.
Therefore, reinforcing the legitimacy of the UN will only be possible if member states are determined to commit to the reform. It is the commitment of member states, particularly the permanent members of the council, that are likely to decide the future of the Security Council in years to come. We plead to them that they must take a decision that will benefit the majority of the world and that those nonpermanent members should unite and pursue this objective, so that, in the years to come, the face of the world, as stated by the President of South Africa is changed for the betterment of the lives of the majority of the inhabitants of the world. I thank you. [Applause.]
Dr S E M PHEKO: Chairperson the restructuring of the United Nations and its agencies to serve and protect the poor of the world is long overdue. Let it be remembered that the United Nations was formed in 1945. The UN Security Council still operates exactly as it did those many years ago.
The Security Council, which is the supreme organ of the United Nations, must be reformed. It must represent all the regions of the world as permanent members instead of confining its representation to only five members with a veto. The other alternative is to have a security council, which is elected every five years. It is important that Africa has one or two seats on the Security Council if this organ remains as it is at present.
In terms of providing global leadership, the UN has in recent years become less effective in response to geopolitical issues. The hegemony of some member states undermines the effectiveness and the role of the UN. The perception that the UN rubberstamps decisions of a few countries, is persisting.
The restructuring of the UN to benefit the poor of the world, who are the majority, will help to give renewed legitimacy to this world body, which countries like US have undermined. The restructuring of the UN is urgent because it is perceived as irrelevant to the present world conditions. Its credibility is terribly dented. The role of the United States government, especially in Iraq, and the economic and military strength of some countries that pursue their own interest does not help the image of the UN. The United Nations, if not restructured and reformed to meet the needs of all mankind today, will sooner than later collapse in the same manner its predecessor, the League of Nations, did. I thank you.
Ms S RAJBALLY: Thank you, Madam Chair. It is a sad global reality that the majority of humanity is plagued by poverty, unemployment, warfare and bloodshed. It is the United Nations that serves to mediate, curtail and restore. However, it is often not seen in such a positive light.
The issues regarding Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Palestine and even those of the African continent, have been tabled by the United Nations, but interventions have not always yielded positive results. The Minority Front praises the UN efforts to attain peace globally and acknowledges its efforts when South Africa was exposed to the ills of the apartheid regime, but the reality of the world is that chaos prevails in many countries. The consequences of chaos are poverty, starvation, disease and so much more. The Minority Front feels that the UN has a very crucial role to play in the alleviation of poverty globally.
It is felt that the UN needs to address poverty from the bottom up to ensure a proper attack on poverty and not merely buttering the surface as camouflage. The structure of the UN and its agencies plays a very crucial role in advocating the effectiveness and efficiency of poverty alleviation globally.
Here in Africa, Nepad’s efforts should reach the UN to assist in the situation in Africa. However, the Minority Front feels that poverty alleviation is a global responsibility and the UN is a sure way of channelling the global commitment to poverty alleviation and, hopefully, world peace. I thank you.
Ke a leboga modula-setulo, ka moka ba boletše, ke leboge gagologolo bao ba boletšego lehono mo sehlogong se sa lehono seo Ntlo-Kgolo e se beilego ka taba ye, ye kgolo ya United Nation. Ke leboge le gore re kwane ka polelo ya rena gore ka moka ga rena re a dumelelana gore United Nation le makgotla a yona ka moka a fetošwe gore dinyakwa tša batho ba lefase bao e lego gore ba hlophegile gagolo ba fihlelelwa dinyakwa tša bona. Ke lebogile gagolo gore re kwane ka moka ga rena bjalo ka ba tšea karolo gore re fihlelele moo.
Gape le boletše ka tlala e kgolo yeo e lego gona gomme e tseneletše batho ba bantšhi ba mo ga borena mo Third World countries, le boletše ka malwetši ao e lego gore a bakwa ke ditlala tšeo, le boletše ka bohlakišwa (lack of development) bjoo bo lego gona, le boletše ka dintwa tšeo le bonago gore di ka fedišwa fela ge United Nation e ka ema ya fetoga gomme ya prioritisa programme tša yona gore e kgone go fihlelea dilo tšeo e lego gore ke di nyakwa tša batho ba bantšhi. Empa, go nale o tee fela yoo e lego gore o dumelelane le rena a bolela ka multilateralism. Ge a bolela ka yona multilateralism o e dumetše empa ge a e dumela a boela gape a re America le UK ge di tsena mola Iraq di ile tša tsena bjalo, ebile a di hlohleletša gobane di be dišarakantšhwa ke batho bao ba lego ka mo gare ga United Nation. Ga bjalo, ke a tshepa gore ga se ka mokgwa woo re tlilego go thekga multilateralism ka gona. Multilateralism ke gore ka moka ga rena re tšee…
[Mr K O BAPELA: Thank you, Chairperson. I would like to thank mostly those who have already spoken on today’s topic as tabled by the National Assembly on the issue of the United Nations. I would also like to express my thanks for the fact that, through our debate, we all agree that the United Nations and all its organs must be changed so that the needs of the people who suffered the most are met. I am very grateful that we have agreed as stakeholders so as to reach this stage.
You also spoke about the poverty that has affected most of our people in Third World countries, the diseases it has caused there, the slavery there and the wars that could easily be stopped if only the United Nations could change and prioritise its programmes to cater for most people’s needs. However, there is only one person who agreed with us on multilateralism. He agreed when we spoke about it, but he went on to say that it was the same method as the one that America and the United Kingdom used to invade Iraq, and even encouraged it because people within the United Nations were disrupting it. For now I believe that it is not the way we are going to support multilateralism. Multilateralism is that all of us should take a . . .]
. . . decision for the common purpose of the world and ensure therefore that we act on that particular common purpose. No country should be allowed to act unilaterally, however powerful it may be, unless it goes through the United Nations. That is the only point that I wanted to remark on and to say I do not think it was in order. In fact, I think it was out of order. I thank you.
Debate concluded.
The House adjourned at 16:34. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- Bills passed by Houses - to be submitted to President for assent
(1) Bills passed by National Council of Provinces on 4 November
2004:
(i) Traditional Health Practitioners Bill [B 66B - 2003]
(National Assembly - sec 76)
- Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism:
(1) The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 4 November 2004 in terms of
Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bill as a section 75
Bill:
(i) National Small Business Amendment Bill [B 23 - 2004]
(National Assembly - sec 75)
(2) The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 4 November 2004 in terms of
Joint Rule 161, classified the following Bill as a money Bill:
(i) Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B 21 - 2004] (National
Assembly - sec 77)
National Assembly
- Messages from National Council of Provinces to National Assembly in respect of Bills passed by Council and transmitted to Assembly:
(1) Bill, subject to proposed amendments, passed by Council on 4
November 2004 and transmitted for consideration of Council's
proposed amendments:
(i) Protection of Constitutional Democracy against Terrorist
and Related Activities Bill [B 12B - 2003 (Reprint)] (NA - 75)
(for proposed amendments, see Announcements, Tablings and
Committee Reports, 2 November 2004, p 1075).
The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Safety and Security of the National Assembly for a report on
the amendments proposed by the Council.
- Referrals to Committees of papers tabled
The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
relevant committees as mentioned below:
(1) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Finance. The Reports of the Auditor-General and the Independent
Auditors on the Financial Statements are referred to the Standing
Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and report:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 8 - National
Treasury for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements of Vote 8 for 2003-2004
[RP 141-2004].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Corporation for
Public Deposits for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2003-
2004.
(c) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 13 - Statistics
South Africa for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 13 for
2003-2004 [RP 163-2004].
(d) Report and Financial Statements of the South African
Reserve Bank for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2003-
2004.
(e) Report and Financial Statements of the Financial
Intelligence Centre for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP
189-2004].
(f) Report and Financial Statements of the Public Investments
Commissioners for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP
99-2004].
(2) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Finance:
(a) Annual Economic Report of the South African Reserve Bank
for 2004.
(b) The Address of the Governor of the South African Reserve
Bank on 24 August 2004.
(3) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Minerals and Energy. The Reports of the Auditor-General and the
Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements are referred to
the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of Electricity
Distribution Industry Holdings (Proprietary) Limited for 2003-
2004, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2003-2004.
(b) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 31 - Department of
Minerals and Energy for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP
85-2004].
(c) Report and Financial Statements of the Central Energy Fund
(CEF) Group of Companies for 2003-2004, including the Reports
of the Auditor-General and the Independent Auditors on the
Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 132-2004].
(d) Report and Financial Statements of the South African
Diamond Board (SADB) for 2003-2004, including the Report of
the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004
[RP 194-2004].
(4) The following paper is referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts and the Ad Hoc Committee on the Office of the
Auditor-General for consideration and report:
Report and Financial Statements of the Office of the Auditor-
General for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Independent
Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 177-2004].
(5) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Health. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements are referred to the Standing Committee on Public
Accounts for consideration:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 16 - Department of
Health for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements of Vote 16 for 2003-2004
[RP 179-2000].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Council for Medical
Schemes for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 135-
2004].
(6) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Provincial and Local Government. The Report of the Auditor-General
on the Financial Statements are referred to the Standing Committee
on Public Accounts for consideration:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 5 - Department of
Provincial and Local Government for 2003-2004, including the
Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of
Vote 5 for 2003-2004 [RP 193-2004].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Local
Government Association (SALGA) for 2003-2004, including the
Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for
2003-2004.
(c) Report and Financial Statements of the Municipal
Demarcation Board for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP
165-2004].
(d) Report and Financial Statements of the National House of
Traditional Leaders for 2003-2004.
(7) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Provincial and Local Government and the Portfolio Committee on
Arts and Culture. The Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements to be referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts for consideration:
Report and Financial Statements of the Commission for the
Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and
Linguistic Communities for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 167-
2004].
(8) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Public Works. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on Public
Accounts for consideration:
Report and Financial Statements of the Independent Development
Trust (IDT) for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 86-2004].
(9) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Water Affairs and Forestry. The Report of the Auditor-General on
the Financial Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts for consideration:
Report and Financial Statements of the Water Research Commission
for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 143-2004].
(10) The following paper is referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts for consideration:
Report and Financial Statements of The Presidency for 2003-2004,
including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 180-2004].
(11) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Agriculture and Land Affairs. The Report of the Auditor-General on
the Financial Statements are referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts for consideration:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 26 - Department of
Agriculture for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements of Vote 26 for 2003-2004
[RP 186-2004].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 30 - Department of
Land Affairs for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 30 for
2003-2004 [RP 168-2004].
(12) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Trade and Industry. The Reports of the Auditor-General and the
Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements are referred to
the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the South African
Quality Institute for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2003-
2004.
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the International Trade
Administration Commission of South Africa for 2003-2004,
including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 188-2004].
(c) Report and Financial Statements of the National
Empowerment Fund for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements 2003-2004.
(d) Report and Financial Statements of the Support Programme
for Industrial Innovation (SPII) for 2003-2004, including the
Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements
2003-2004.
(e) Annual Report of the Council for the Non-Proliferation of
Weapons of Mass Destruction for 2002-2003.
(13) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Trade and Industry:
Report and Financial Statements of the Micro Finance Regulatory
Council (MFRC) for the year ended 31 December 2003.
(14) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Trade and Industry and the Joint Monitoring Committee on the
Improvement of the Quality of Life and Status of Women:
Report and Financial Statements of Technology for Women in
Business (TWIB) for 2003-2004.
(15) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Public Service and Administration. The Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements is referred to the Standing
Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:
Report and Financial Statements of the South African Management
Development Institute (SAMDI) for 2003-2004, including the Report
of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004
[RP 127-2004].
(16) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Public Service and Administration and the Portfolio Committee on
Foreign Affairs:
Report of the Public Service Commission on the Investigation into
the Appointment of Professional Cubans in the South African Public
Service.
(17) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Public Enterprises. The Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts for consideration:
Report and Financial Statements of Vote 9 - Department of Public
Enterprises for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements of Vote 9 for 2003-2004 [RP
143-2004].
(18) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Transport. The Reports of the Auditor-General and the Independent
Auditors on the Financial Statements is referred to the Standing
Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the South African
National Roads Agency Limited (SANRAL) for 2003-2004,
including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 157-2004].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Air Traffic and
Navigation Services Company Limited for 2003-2004, including
the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial
Statements for 2003-2004.
(c) Report and Financial Statements of the Airports Company
South Africa Limited (ACSA) for 2003-2004, including the
Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements
for 2003-2004.
(d) Report and Financial Statements of the Urban Transport
Fund (UTF) for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP 191-
2004].
(e) Report and Financial Statements of the Cross-Border Road
Transport Agency for 2002-2003, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP
27-2004].
(f) Report and Financial Statements of the Airports Company
South Africa and Air Navigation Services Company Ltd for 2003-
2004.
(19) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Correctional Services. The Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts for consideration:
Report and Financial Statements of Vote 21 - Department of
Correctional Services for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 21 for 2003-
2004 [RP 192-2004].
(20) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Housing. The Reports of the Auditor-General and the Independent
Auditors on the Financial Statements is referred to the Standing
Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 29 - Department of
Housing for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements of Vote 29 for 2003-2004
[RP 125-2004].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Rural Housing Loan
Fund (RHLF) for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2003-
2004.
(c) Report and Financial Statements of Servcon Housing
Solutions (Proprietary) Limited for 2003-2004, including the
Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements
for 2003-2004.
(d) Report and Financial Statements of Thubelisha Homes for
2003-2004, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on
the Financial Statements for 2002-2003.
(e) Report and Financial Statements of the Social Housing
Foundation for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2003-
2004.
(f) Report and Financial Statements of the National Housing
Finance Corporation Limited for 2003-2004, including the
Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements
for 2003-2004.
(g) Report and Financial Statements of the National Urban and
Reconstruction Agency (NURCHA) for 2003-2004.
(21) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Sport and Recreation. The Reports of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts for consideration:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 20 - Department of
Sport and Recreation for 2003-2004, including the Report of
the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 20 for
2003-2004.
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the South African
Sports Commission for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004.
(22) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Justice and Constitutional Development. The Reports of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements is referred to the Standing
Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of Vote 24 - Department of
Justice and Constitutional Development for 2003-2004,
including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements of Vote 24 for 2003-2004 [RP 182-2004].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Special
Investigating Unit (SIU) for 2003-2004, including the Report
of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2003-
2004 [RP 128-2004].
(23) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Justice and Constitutional Development:
Government Notice No R.889 published in Government Gazette No
26603 dated 10 July 2004: Designation of a body for the purpose of
section 212(4)(a) and (8) of the Criminal Procedure Act, 1977 (Act
No 51 of 1977).
(24) The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts for consideration:
(a) Letter from the Acting Minister of Foreign Affairs to the
Speaker of the National Assembly, in terms of section 65(2)(a)
of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1 of 1999),
explaining the delay in the tabling of the Annual Report of
the Department of Foreign Affairs for 2003-2004.
(b) Letter from the Minister of Public Enterprises dated 1
October 2004 to the Speaker of the National Assembly, in terms
of section 65(2)(a) of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999
(Act No 1 of 1959), explaining the delay in the tabling of the
Annual Report of Arivia.kom for 2003-2004.
(c) Letter from the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs
dated 23 September 2004 to the Speaker of the National
Assembly, in terms of section 65(2)(a) of the Public Finance
Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1 of 1959), explaining the delay
in the tabling of the Annual Report of Inala Farms for the
year ended February 2004.
(d) Letter from the Minister of Health dated 10 September 2004
to the Speaker of the National Assembly, in terms of section
65(2)(a) of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1
of 1959), explaining the delay in the tabling of the Annual
Report of the National Health Laboratory Services for 2002-
2003 and 2003-2004.
(e) Letter from the Minister of Health dated 5 October 2004 to
the Speaker of the National Assembly, in terms of section
65(2)(a) of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1
of 1959), explaining the delay in the tabling of the Annual
Report of the Department of Health for 2003-2004.
(f) Letter from the Minister of Finance dated 28 September
2004 to the Speaker of the National Assembly, in terms of
section 65(2)(a) of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999
(Act No 1 of 1959), explaining the delay in the tabling of the
Annual Report of the Government Employees Pension Fund for
2002-2003 and 2003-2004.
(g) Letter from the Minister of Social Development dated 19
October 2004 to the Speaker of the National Assembly, in terms
of section 65(2)(a) of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999
(Act No 1 of 1999), explaining the delay in the tabling of the
Annual Report of the Department of Social Development for 2003-
2004.
(h) Letter from the Minister of Finance dated 13 October 2004
to the Speaker of the National Assembly, in terms of section
65(2)(a) of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1
of 1999), explaining the delay in the tabling of the Annual
Report of the Public Investment Commissioners for 2003-2004.
(i) Letter from the Minister of Social Development dated 21
October 2004 to the Speaker of the National Assembly, in terms
of section 65(2)(a) of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999
(Act No 1 of 1999), explaining the delay in the tabling of the
Annual Report of the National Development Agency (NDA) for
2003-2004.
(25) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Arts and Culture. The Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts for consideration:
Report and Financial Statements of Vote 14 - Department of Arts
and Culture for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements of Vote 14 for 2003-2004.
(26) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Defence and the Joint Standing Committee on Defence:
The President of the Republic submitted a letter dated 28
September 2004 to the Speaker of the National Assembly informing
Members of the Assembly of the employment of the South African
National Defence Force in the Democratic Republic of Burundi.
(27) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Home Affairs. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on Public
Accounts for consideration:
Report and Financial Statements of Vote 4 - Department of Home
Affairs for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-General
on the Financial Statements of Vote 4 for 2003-2004 [RP 175-2004].
(28) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Labour. The Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial
Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on Public
Accounts for consideration:
Report and Financial Statements of National Economic Development
and Labour Council for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004.
(29) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Finance and the Joint Budget Committee for consideration:
Annual Review of the Independent Commission for the Remuneration
of Public Office-Bearers, 2004.
(30) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Education. The Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on Public
Accounts for consideration:
Report and Financial Statements of the Council on Higher Education
for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2003-2004.
(31) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Education:
(a) Government Notice No 983 published in Government Gazette
No 26692 dated 18 August 2004: Appointment of a replacement to
serve as a member of the South African Qualifications
Authority (SAQA) in terms of section 4(4) of the South African
Qualifications Authority Act, 1995 (Act No 58 of 1995).
(b) Government Notice No 285 published in Government Gazette
No 26119 dated 3 March 2004: Appointment of members to serve
on the proposed management structures with the aim of
developing additional subjects to be included in the National
Curriculum Statement Grades 10-12 (General) in terms of the
National Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of 1996) and
the South African Schools Act, 1996 (Act No 84 of 1996).
(c) Government Notice No 995 published in Government Gazette
No 26711 dated 23 August 2004: Amendment to the names of
members to serve on the Ministerial Project Committee and
Associated Subject Working Groups for the development of
subject statements to be included in the National Curriculum
Statement Grades 10-12 (General) in terms of the National
Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of 1996).
(d) Government Notice No 1052 published in Government Gazette
No 26767 dated 8 September 2004: Appointment of members to
serve on the proposed subject working groups in terms of the
National Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of 1996) and
the South African Schools Act, 1996 (Act No 84 of 1996).
(e) Government Notice No 1080 published in Government Gazette
No 26788 dated 15 September 2004: The development of a
National Curriculum Statement Grades 10-12 (General) - Second
phase: Call for written submissions from the Stakeholder
bodies and members of the public in terms of the National
Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of 1996).
(f) Government Notice No 981 published in Government Gazette
No 26690 dated 18 August 2004: Extension of the term of office
of the current members serving on the Second South African
Qualifications Authority for the period 26 April 2004 until 26
October 2004 in terms of the South African Qualifications
Authority Act, 1995 (Act No 58 of 1995).
(g) Government Notice No 982 published in Government Gazette
No 26691 dated 18 August 2004: Calling for nomination of
persons to serve as members on the Third South African
Qualifications Authority for the period 27 October 2004 until
26 October 2007 in terms of the South African Qualifications
Authority Act, 1995 (Act No 58 of 1995).
(h) Government Notice No 820 published in Government Gazette
No 26560 dated 8 July 2004: National Policy regarding further
Education and Training programmes: Approval of Additional
Languages as National Education Policy to be listed in the
National Curriculum Statement Grades 10-12 (General) in terms
of the National Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of 1996)
and the South African Schools Act, 1996 (Act No 84 of 1996).
(i) Government Notice No 1081 published in Government Gazette
No 26789 dated 17 September 2004: National Policy regarding
further Education and Training programmes: Approval of the
draft policy document, National Policy on the Conduct,
Administration and Management of the Assessment of the Senior
Certificate as National Education Policy in terms of the
National Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of 1996) and
the South African Schools Act, 1996 (Act No 84 of 1996).
(32) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Communications. The Reports of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts for consideration:
(a) Report and Financial Statements for Vote 27 - Department
of Communications for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 27 for
2003-2004.
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the International
Marketing Council for 2003-2004, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2003-2004 [RP
174-2004].
(33) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Social Development. The Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts for consideration:
Report and Financial Statements of Vote 19 - Department of Social
Development for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements of Vote 19 for 2003-2004 [RP
198-2004].
(34) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Water Affairs and Forestry:
(a) Government Notice No 1012 published in Government Gazette
No 26731 dated 27 August 2004: Notice of list of protected
tree species under the National Forests Act, 1998 (Act No 84
of 1998).
(b) Government Notice No 1031 published in Government Gazette
No 26749 dated 3 September 2004: Restrictions on the use of
water for agricultural use and for domestic and industrial use
from the Gamtoos River Government Water Scheme (The Kouga Dam
and the Gamtoos Canal) in the Fish-to-Tsitsikamma Water
Management Area (WMA 15) in the Eastern Cape Province, in
terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
(c) Government Notice No 1042 published in Government Gazette
No 26752 dated 10 September 2004: Correction notice in respect
of lists of protected tree species in terms of the National
Forests Act, 1998 (Act No 84 of 1998).
(d) Government Notice No 1099 published in Government Gazette
No 26807 dated 17 September 2004: Notice to protect a tree in
terms of section 12 of the National Forests Act, 1998 (Act No
84 of 1998).
(e) Government Notice No 1098 published in Government Gazette
No 26799 dated 23 September 2004: Water Research Fund: Rates
and Charges in terms of the Water Research Act, 1971 (Act No
34 of 1971).
(f) Government Notice No 1103 published in Government Gazette
No 26799 dated 23 September 2004: Restrictions on the use of
surface water for agricultural purposes and urban and
industrial purposes from any resource in the catchment of the
Loskop Dam (Secondary Catchment B1 and B2) in terms of the
National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
(g) Government Notice No 1104 published in Government Gazette
No 26799 dated 23 September 2004: Establishment of the Upper
Komati River Water User Association, Magisterial District of
Belfast and Carolina, Mpumalanga Province, Water Management
Area Number 5 in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No
36 of 1998).
(h) Government Notice No 1105 published in Government Gazette
No 26799 dated 23 September 2004: Establishment of the Lower
Modder River/Krugersdrift Water User Association, Districts of
Boshof, Bloemfontein, Petrusberg and Jacobsdal, Province of
the Free State, Water Management Area Number 13 in terms of
the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
(35) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Home Affairs for consideration:
Report of the Public Protector on an Investigation into
Allegations of Undue Delay, Unlawful and Improper Conduct and
Prejudice in the rendering of services at Braamfontein Refugee
Reception Office (Now Rosettenville Premises).
(36) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Foreign Affairs. The Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements is referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts for consideration:
Report and Financial Statements of Vote 3 - Department of Foreign
Affairs for 2003-2004, including the Report of the Auditor-General
on the Financial Statements of Vote 3 for 2003-2004 [RP 203-2004].
TABLINGS
National Assembly
- The Speaker
Annual Report of Parliament, 2004, including the financial statements
for the year ending 31 March 2004 and the Report of the Auditor-General
thereon.
Note: This Report replaces the "Annual Report of Parliament, 2003"
tabled in the Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports of 31
August 2004 (p 639 of the reprint of that ATC) as "Report and
Financial Statements Parliament of the Republic of South Africa
for 2003-2004", which contained technical errors and is
accordingly withdrawn.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Assembly
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B 21 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 77), dated 3 November 2004:
The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the subject of the Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B 21 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 77), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a Money Bill, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
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