TUESDAY, 22 JUNE 2004 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:03.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                     DEATH OF MR AGGREY KLAASTE

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, we move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes with profound sadness the passing away of Mr Aggrey Klaaste on 19 June 2004; (2) further notes that Mr Klaaste was an accomplished and respected journalist and a prominent member of our business community;

(3) expresses its appreciation for the immense contribution he made in the fields of public information and reporting; and

(4) conveys its heart-felt condolences to his family, and all his loved ones.

Agreed to.

The SPEAKER: The condolences of the House will be conveyed. I also would like to take this opportunity to add my own personal condolences and that of the Deputy Speaker and our support for the motion adopted by the House.

CONGRATULATIONS TO RETIEF GOOSEN ON WINNING US OPEN AND TO SPRINGBOK RUGBY TEAM ON SERIES WIN OVER IRELAND

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr T D LEE: Madam Speaker, I hereby move without notice: That the House congratulates -

(1) Retief Goosen on winning the US Open for the second time and thereby confirming his position as one of the top players in world golf; and

(2) the Springbok rugby team on their series win over Ireland after winning the second test, and wishes them well against Wales at the weekend.

Agreed to.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 2 - Parliament:

Mr J H JEFFERY: Madam Speaker, hon members, as we consider the Vote of Parliament 10 years after the advent of democracy, let us reflect on the enormous challenges that have taken place regarding this institution and its role in the government of the people of South Africa in the past decade.

I’d like to highlight just two examples. Firstly, the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, Act 108 of 1996, is the supreme law of the land, and all other laws or conduct that are inconsistent with it are invalid. This means that even Parliament is subject to the Constitution, and any decisions or actions taken by Parliament that conflict with the Constitution and in particular the Bill of Rights are invalid. The interpretation of what complies with the Constitution and what doesn’t is made by another body that never existed before 1994, namely the Constitutional Court, a court in which the judges, unlike in the past, are selected after an inclusive process involving a wide variety of stakeholders. The supremacy of the Constitution is not some abstract theory. Parliament, as we know, has been taken to court in the past and had its actions and decisions evaluated against the Constitution.

Secondly, the public enjoys unprecedented access to Parliament like never before. Two whole sections of our Constitution are devoted to public access and involvement in the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces. Our Constitution states that the National Assembly is elected to represent the people and to ensure government by the people under the Constitution. The Constitution goes on to state that it does this by choosing the President, by providing a national forum for public consideration of issues, and by scrutinising and overseeing executive action.

As part of my contribution to this debate I want to deal with the issue of parliamentary oversight. There seem to be, unfortunately, a number of misconceptions, both amongst certain members in this House and among political commentators and members of the media regarding oversight. Oversight is equated with the watchdog role and watchdogs, as we know, are meant to look out for bad people, burglars and other criminals. When they spot them they are meant to sound the alarm, to bark loudly and, ultimately, to bite. I hear some of those members saying that I am correct, so those are the ones I am talking about.

In terms of this definition, apart from the conception of the executive as something that at best should not be trusted, it implies that oversight can best be or probably only be performed by members of opposition parties, as members of the ruling party will be too in awe of their leadership who are in the executive to call them to order.

Now, the section of the Constitution I have quoted from makes it quite clear that Parliament as an institution scrutinises and oversees executive action. It does not specify any special or exclusive role for opposition parties. Indeed, when we look at the role of opposition parties, let us be aware that our situation in South Africa is not the same as in the Westminster system in which there are usually two large parties which alternate in government with the relationship between them in parliament being one in which there is very vocal and extreme criticism.

The lessons of the constitutional settlement that brought about democracy in South Africa included one of inclusivity and consensus-seeking. You can have different views from somebody, but you don’t need to shout at them. Listen to them and hear what they have to say and they will listen to you. [Interjections.]

As members of the ANC in this House, we were elected by the vast majority of the people of South Africa. They elected us to implement the programme contained in the ANC manifesto to implement a people’s contract to create work and fight poverty. Part of that contract is accountable government. A specific component of the ANC’s election manifesto read that the ANC Government would improve interaction between Government and the people through accountable public representatives''. The manifesto went on to say, and I quote:We will improve the system of monitoring and evaluation to improve the implementation of all these programmes that were referred to in the manifesto through stronger monitoring and evaluation units at national, provincial and local levels.’’

While monitoring and evaluation systems can be established in a number of areas, the legislatures will obviously play a key role in this regard. So, the interpretation of the section of the Constitution I have read does not simply mean that Parliament chooses the President who then appoints the executive, and after that that Parliament just plays a watchdog role and barks whenever the executive messes up. It means, rather, that Parliament and Cabinet have a duty to the people of South Africa to work together to ensure good governance. Good governance is achieved by a partnership between the legislature and the executive, playing their respective roles.

Parliament approves the Budget, both how the money required by Government will be raised and the programmes on which it will be spent. It is a responsibility of Parliament to interact with Ministers and, in particular, their officials to understand how these programmes are to be implemented, and then to go out to check on that implementation with a view to ensuring that it is improved if necessary. A specific component of oversight in the National Assembly over expenditure is considering the reports of the Auditor-General in auditing the accounts of Government. Again, a prime aim of this interaction is to develop mechanisms to ensure that unauthorised expenditure does not reoccur or continue.

A useful forum for engaging the executive is Question Time. Now, for a bored observer ``a grilling’’ of a Minister may be more entertaining. But is that necessarily what Government is about? Question Time should be used to gather information about particular government programmes and to engage members of the Cabinet in public discussions on aspects of those programmes.

The Constitution requires Parliament to develop mechanisms for oversight and accountability. There was a considerable amount of deliberation in the last Parliament on the issue of these mechanisms, and a report from the Joint Rules Committee was adopted by both Houses. This Parliament needs to take the process further and start implementing the recommendations contained in that report.

This would involve issues such as drafting a best-practice guide to capture the best oversight practices of committees; drafting guidelines for portfolio and select committees to allow for joint planning of oversight work; drafting protocols to ensure structured communication between the committees of the two Houses, ensuring that section 77(2) of the Constitution regarding the ability of Parliament to amend money Bills is implemented; drawing up a landscaping document regarding oversight provisions, and so on. We need to ensure that we take that process to its logical conclusion and implement those recommendations.

As the amount of legislation, hopefully, decreases as the legal legacy of apartheid is dismantled, Parliament can devote more time to oversight. In the previous parliaments a number of portfolio committees conducted oversight visits to government departments in the provinces to check on the implementation of government programmes and to engage with officials on the ground. This process needs to be speeded up. You can receive a glowing report about how something is being done, but it’s another thing to go out to see for yourself. An area that we can improve on is in dealing with the report on the committee’s return to ensure that the department responds on an ongoing basis to the concerns and suggestions raised in that report. Oversight should also be performed by each member of Parliament in their constituency. They should be aware, in particular, of all the government offices in their constituency and the programmes that have been implemented, and be in a position to assist where necessary.

However, in order to perform oversight properly we need to ensure that Parliament develops sufficient capacity to perform its oversight effectively. This means that the committee section has to be sufficiently resourced and have sufficient qualified researchers to write reports, as well as an independent means to collect information. It also means that constituency offices need to be sufficiently resourced to play their roles in oversight as well. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, the hon Mr Jeffery made a very interesting speech. It is a pity he seeks to rewrite the Constitution by giving his own interpretation and by blurring all the provisions that he does not like. When you were elected, Madam Speaker, I said that I would do whatever I could to help ensure that you have a successful term of office. Your term has started off rather turbulently, but I repeat that undertaking to you now. My hon friend, Sandy Kalyan, will deal with some of the material aspects of Parliament impinging on the lives of MPs, but I want to deal with the political discourse in Parliament.

On the face of it, this Parliament is democratic. We have many parties which, together, reflect the diversity of South African society. One party has 10 million votes, another party has 2 millions votes, but there is also room for a party which has just over 40 000 votes. In our view that is right, and it is correct that each of these voices should be heard. The greatest achievement of the 1994 Parliament, and specifically of Dr Frene Ginwala, was the insistence on each party, however small, being heard and treated with dignity and respect.

Many democracies have thresholds, either for being awarded seats and/or being recognized as a party. You take the example of Germany, where the threshold is 5%. If we applied that here, this Parliament would only have had the ANC, the DA and the IFP. We think that it is much better to have the system we do have, but we, of course, would like to reform it. We would like to have constituency MPs and a top-up on the proportional list, very similar to South Africa’s municipal system.

One of the negatives of our system is that we have a large number of small parties in Parliament which the ANC tries to co-opt in some way or another. Rewards, punishments and patronage are used in the co-option process and the ANC tends to play one party off against the other to teach the lesson that it is the ANC that has the power, because it has the goodies to dish out. In our view, there are too many parties which fly in the ANC’s slipstream instead of trying to secure an independent position and an own niche. This would make for a much healthier democratic discourse in this Parliament. Perhaps this is one of the reasons why so many of the opposition parties either lost votes and seats in this last election or, at best, maintained a precarious foothold.

The mechanics of the differential turnout have obscured the fact that since 1994 the ANC has lost millions of votes, while the DA has gained 1,5 million votes. [Interjections.] It is absolutely true. Go and do your own arithmetic, Minister. The losses of the other opposition parties, often to the ANC, obscured the ANC’s losses. The great challenge that we all face, Madam, is to resonate with the 7 million voters who did not register at all and the 5 million registered voters who did not vote. It is essential that these 12 million potential voters be reached, mobilised and brought into the democratic political system.

People are not stupid. Even those with little formal education are often highly intelligent and wise people. If they have not become part of the democratic system, it is not they who failed. It is we as politicians who failed. We failed to persuade them that their vital interests can be represented and advanced by us. There is a wake-up call to all of the parties in this Parliament. It is not satisfactory that as many people did not vote as the total number who supported the ANC and the DA in this election.

Parliament seeks to represent the whole of South Africa and because of the PR system it succeeds better than almost any other system. Every strand of our society is here; virtually anyone can win a seat if he or she has even a tiny following. But the diversity is also reflected in the number of MPs each party seeks in electing. Because the ANC has almost 70% of the members, it is of course far more diverse and far more representative than any other party. That diversity is extraordinarily well represented when the ANC, the DA and the IFP votes are added together, because together we represent 90% of the voters in this country. [Interjections.]

When Parliament seeks to have representation elsewhere, like in the Pan African Parliament, it is right and proper that the most representative parties should be included. It would be unthinkable for the ANC, for example, to have only one member out of five, or no members out of five, because then the diversity of this Parliament could be represented by five smaller parties. That would be ludicrous.

However, the same must surely apply to the largest opposition party and the second largest opposition party. Together they represent a diversity of 3 million voters, far more than all of the other minority parties put together. What is wrong with the current situation is that the ANC says that unless all of the opposition parties unanimously agree on a candidate, democracy does not prevail and cannot prevail and the opposition collective cannot take a binding vote.

What happens is that the ANC allows even a one-person party to exercise a veto over the whole opposition and ensure that it is the ANC and not the opposition who chooses opposition representatives. Theoretically the ANC could take MPs from the two smallest parties in this Parliament with, say only 100 000 votes between them and make them the opposition representatives, effectively ignoring the numbers and diversity of 3 million voters represented by the two largest parties. This can’t be right because it is both unfair and undemocratic.

However, the ANC also has many members who disapprove of a majority using its powers to oppress the minority. If the ANC wants to preserve a reputation for being democratic and for being fair to all, it will resist the temptation and it will do what the voters wanted, rather than what a few self-serving politicians want. I want to point out to you that some of the parties which seek to have representation on all sorts of outside bodies cannot even fill their quotas in parliamentary committees here. They are not prepared to do the work on portfolio committees, but they seek glamorous appointments to go and represent this Parliament elsewhere. I think that is not correct and one should take account of that.

I believe that the members of the ANC want to be fair, they want to be in the right, and they want to do the democratic thing. If they want to do that, they must say that the opposition collective should, as a collective, try to find unanimity. If they can’t find unanimity, then the democratic alternative of casting a vote should take place and then the majority must rule. And that is what happens in every democratic country in the world and I see no reason why it should not be the case here. I believe good things of the ANC until they have proved the contrary to me. So until the contrary is proved, I expect the best and not the worst from the hon members sitting opposite us. Thank you, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]

Nksz P TSHWETE: Somlomo, amalungu eNdlu yoWiso-mthetho abekekileyo, ndiziva ndinelunda, ndinamabhongo, ndinokuzingca okumangalisayo, xa ndiza kuphefumla ngomba obaluleke kangaka, nditsho indima yoomama kwiNdlu yoWiso- mthetho. Akukho namnye, ngakumbi kwabo babengabacinezeli, owasazi ukuba namhlanje siza kube sileli nani loomama abangabameli babantu ePalamente. [Uwele-wele.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[Ms P TSHWETE: Madam Speaker, hon members of the National Assembly, I feel honoured, proud and wonderful at the prospect of expressing myself on this very subject, namely the role of women in Parliament. There is not a single person, especially from among those who were oppressors in the past, who knew that today there would be such a large number of women in Parliament who represent the people. [Interjections.]]

It is worth noting that in 1994 only 3% of the national parliamentarians in South Africa were women. Surely, the same cannot be said. The number of women in South Africa’s Parliament is 131 out of a total of 400 seats, which represents 32,8% women representation. [Applause.] These are the latest figures following the successful elections in April this year. This then means that South Africa will now move to first position in the Southern African Development Community, that is SADC’s ranking of women representation in parliament. [Applause.]

In the global ranking of women representation South Africa has now moved from 15th to 11th position, after Australia and slightly ahead of Germany. Rwanda, with a 41% women representation in parliament, is still in the leading position in the global league.

South Africa was therefore ranked 12th out of a total of 183 countries. The ANC is the only South African political party with a quota for women representation. The ANC women now account for 79% of the total number of women in the South African Parliament. [Applause.]

South Africa quickly leaped from position 141 in the world before the 1994 elections to where it is now when the ANC adopted a 30% quota for its party list. According to the Interparliamentary Union, the International Association of Parliamentarians of Sovereign States, as of May 2004 the hon Baleka Kgositsile was one of only 35 women around the world to preside over a House of approximately 1 800 parliamentarians.

HON MEMBERS: Malibongwe! [Let it be praised!]

Ms P TSHWETE: South Africa is one of only three countries to have women presiding officers for a House of Parliament.

I’d like to congratulate the hon Lulu Xingwana, who is now the Deputy Minister of Minerals and Energy, on the role she has played with other women in making this objective a reality. I remember how, with other comrades, she established the ANC women’s caucus, which later became a multiparty women’s caucus. She has served women in Parliament as chairperson of the multiparty women’s caucus, SADC women’s parliamentary caucus and the Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women. I’m raising this because some people undermine women who serve in the structures that develop other women.

Today we salute the President for recognising women who work to better the lives of other women. Today we celebrate 10 years of our democracy. I want to focus on the achievements made by Parliament, as well as challenges to be confronted.

On achievements, many laws that protect and enhance women’s rights and interests have been passed. I’m referring here to, amongst others, the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Act, Act 92 of 1996; the Maintenance Act, Act 99 of 1998; the Commission on Gender Equality Act, Act 39 of 1996; the Domestic Violence Act, Act 116 of 1998; and the Recognition of Customary Marriages Act, Act 120 of 1998.

Regarding the challenges, I want to raise the following. Policies are now in place. We have gender desk units in the departments and we ensure gender equality. Ours is to monitor the implementation of these policies, continuously review existing laws, pass new legislation to ensure that women’s rights and interests are protected, and link with civil society in general and women’s organisations to further strengthen women’s representation in Parliament.

As women we have first-hand information on the needs of women, over and above their experiences. Thus we will ensure that there are laws that will respond responsibly to their needs. The move by the Department of Finance towards performance budgeting puts the challenge on women by measuring outputs. Look at gender equality in terms of how departments spend their budgets.

Kwakhona, Somlomo, ndiwothulela umnqwazi umbutho wesizwe ngokuqinisekisa ukuba oomama badlala indima yabo, bathatha inxaxheba kumalungelo abo. Banenxaxheba enkulu abayidlalayo ePalamente.

Eneneni, eli phulo likhokelwa liphiko loo mama, umbutho wesizwe, i-ANC Women’s League, ekhokelwe ngumamba uNosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula. Sibulela oomama, namhlanje. Sinoomama abaphethe amaphondo; sinoomama namhlanje abaneziqinisekiso zobunini. Isidima sabo sibuyile, njengoko bebekade bengenaso isidima. Abanye oomama bekunyanzeleka ukuba bacenge ootata kuba bengena ndawo yokuhlala. Namhlanje isidima sabo sibuyiselwe.

Aba mama banamashishini angawabo. Akukho tata uyintloko ze kulandele umama ngasemva. Baneeprojekthi phaya ekuhlaleni, ezikhokelwa ngabo. Yonke le misebenzi ibangwe ngala maqobokazana alapha ngaphakathi kwiNdlu yoWiso- mthetho, kuba ayibekile imithetho ze aqinisekisa ukuba aba mama nabo bayaxhamla. Siyabulela kuni boomama. [Kwaqhwatywa.]

Oomama namhlanje baphethe emisebenzini, bakwi ``management positions’’ [amanqanaba obumanejala], xa ndiyibeka ngesilungu. Kanti ke nabatshatileyo bakwaphethe emizini yabo. Siyaphatha phaya emagumbini ethu, apha emtshatweni, ootata abaphethanga. Oomama ibingabantu bokukha amanzi. Xa kuphele amanzi utata ubesonga izandla axelele umama.

Siyabulela kwiSebe lezaManzi ngokuncedisa kwiphulo lokuba oomama bangayi emlanjeni. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Oomama bekukade kusithiwa mabaye kutheza iinkuni. Bayayazi abantu baphaya ezilalini ukuba xa bengaya kutheza iinkuni akuzi kuphekwa loo mini. Siyabulela kwiSebe lezeZimbiwa naMandla.

Namhlanje oomama bahlala ezindlwini ebebekade bengenazo. Siyabulela kwiSebe lezeZindlu. Singathetha sophele. Sikhahlela kwiinkokeli ezifana noDora Tsamana, uLillian Ngoyi, uAlbertina Sisulu, uMiranda Ngculu, uNomzamo Madikizela-Mandela, nabo bonke oomama abayilweleyo le nkululeko. Sithi kubo indima iyabonwa ngoomama, ekuhlaleni naphakathi ePalamente. Siyababulela.

AMALUNGU AHLONIPHEKILEYO: Malibongwe! [Kwaqhwatywa.]

Nksz P TSHWETE: Ndihlaba ikhwelo kule mibutho yezopolitiko engenayo nempunde, okanye enegcuntswana loomama, ukuba mayizame ilwelwe amalungelo oomama, kungabikho iimeko apho kuthiwa kukho ootata ababini, umama akakho. I-ANC isifundisile ukuba naye umama unalo ilungelo lokuphatha. [Uwele- wele.]

Xa ndigqibezela, ndiza kuxelela amalungu eNdlu alapha ecaleni kwam, e-DA, ukuba noko xa ndijonge kweli cala, ndifumanisa kumhlophe, oomama bebabini. Mabazame abasele bexhamla, besitya, ukuba khe bathi ukuya kwaba bantu bathanda ukubalwela, abanye bade bababone ukuba abahoywanga ngulo Rhulumente uphetheyo. Mabakhe babacinge. Kodwa abasokuze babacinge kuba akukho nto babenzela yona, torhwana. Ngoko, ndiyacela ke ukuba i-ANC ibone ukuba kumaphondo onke oomama bayangena kwiikhabhinethi zamaphondo, asingootata bodwa. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Again, Madam Speaker, I take my hat off to the people’s party for ensuring that women have a role to play and that they themselves are fighting for their rights. They are playing a major role in Parliament.

Actually, this campaign is led by the women’s branch of the people’s party, the ANC Women’s League under the leadership of Mrs Nosiviwe Mapisa- Nqakula. We say thank you to the women. Today, we have women who are in charge of the provinces. We have women today who own title deeds. Their dignity has been restored, unlike in the past when they had no dignity. Some women were forced to beg men because they had nowhere to stay. Today, their dignity has been restored.

These women own their own businesses. There is no man who is the leader so that the woman follows him. They have their own projects, out there in the community, that are managed by them. All these projects have been made possible by the women who are members of this House, because they passed the laws and ensured that these women also benefit. Thank you, women. [Applause.]

Today women are holding management positions. Even those who are married are leaders in their homes. We are the leaders in our homes, as married women. It is no longer the husbands who are in charge. Women used to be the drawers of water. When the water ran out, the husband would fold his arms and tell his wife that there was no water.

We would like to thank the Department of Water Affairs for their assistance in the campaign to ensure that women no longer have to go to the rivers to get water. [Applause.] Women were expected to go and fetch wood. People from the rural communities know that when there is no wood, there will be no cooking that day. We are grateful to the Department of Mineral and Energy Affairs.

Today, women stay in houses they never owned before. We thank the Department of Housing for that. We can talk endlessly. We salute leaders such as Dora Tsamana, Lillian Ngoyi, Albertina Sisulu, Miranda Ngculu, Nomzamo Madikizela-Mandela and all those women who fought for this liberation. We say to them that the women out there in the community as well as in Parliament are aware of the role that they have played. Thank you.

HON MEMBERS: Let it be praised! [Applause.]

Ms P TSHWETE: I call upon the parties that have no women representatives or that have only a few women to start fighting for women’s rights and bring to an end the situation in which there are two men and not a single woman. The ANC has taught us that a woman has the right to lead. [Interjections].

In conclusion, I would like to say to the members of this House who are next to me, the DA, that when I look at their side I see mostly whites and only two women. Those that are already enjoying the fruits of democracy must try and reach out to those people for whom they are fighting, some of whom are even seen as neglected by this Government. They must keep them in mind. Unfortunately, they will never think of them because there is nothing that they are doing for them.

Therefore, I call upon the ANC to see to it that in all the provinces women are part of the provincial cabinets, and that they are not made up of men only.] Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, the previous speaker spoke a lot in isiXhosa. I cannot speak isiXhosa, but I heard something from where I was sitting there. To me, it sounded as if she was saying, ``Viva IFP’’. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order!

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, if she did say that, she will find that on my left-hand side we all agree with her. [Laughter.]

Today, as we consider the Vote of Parliament, it is only right for us to reflect on where we started and where we are. I have been in this Parliament for 27 years and … [Interjections.] … I know what the situation was before 1994. I must tell you that Parliament in the new South Africa is a great improvement on the Parliament before 1994. [Applause.]

We have come a very long way since 1994. I remember that in 1994, when we arrived here, there were practically no experienced people. The then new President, Mr Mandela, had no experience as a head of state, and neither did most Cabinet Ministers. The Speaker, Whips, members of Parliament - or some of us - had to start right from the beginning.

There were many prophets of doom. I don’t want to hit out at the NNP, but Mr Hennie Smit was one of the prophets of doom. He said, ``It won’t work, it’s not going to work. This place will collapse.’’ He was wrong, because we have grown. If you take our position today, it is very clear how we have grown as a Parliament, and how we have become experienced. Not only the President, but the Cabinet, the Speaker, the members and the staff have all become experienced. As Whips of this Parliament, we sit every Wednesday in the Chief Whips Forum. All the Whips sit together and we discuss the programme, problems and plans of Parliament. We do this in the spirit of ubuntu.

Today, if one examines our Parliament, one is extremely proud to find that it functions professionally. We need not stand back for any other parliament in the world, and I have visited most parliaments in the western and other worlds. Here, we operate in accordance with international parliamentary standards. The main thing is, we are an African Parliament and I, as an African, am proud of this Parliament. We do things our way. Where in the world would you find an imbongi in a parliament running up and down and giving praise? [Interjections.] I think the hon Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, for instance, may turn out to be a very good imbongi. [Laughter.] We must try him next time.

I also wish to refer to the Speaker we had over the past 10 years, Dr Ginwala. We have to pay tribute to her. She did - I nearly said a hell of a lot, but I will never say that in Parliament - a lot for members here. Before 1994 we basically had no real privileges as members of Parliament. But, Speaker Ginwala introduced a long list of things that improved and empowered us as members of Parliament.

She introduced a system whereby we received a lot of money for secretarial staff, to appoint researchers to assist us to do our work, we got computers and printers, and we were trained. Even a few weeks ago there was an intensive training programme for members that lasted two weeks. We never had that in the old South Africa. Today, we are served by staff who are professionals. Speaker Ginwala will be remembered for her huge efforts to empower members to carry out their important duties as members of Parliament. We pay tribute to her.

Speaker, you yourself are a real professional and a darling. [Interjections.] Madam Speaker, you are always dressed like a beautiful fashion model. [Laughter.] You have also come a long way, Madam Speaker. You were the strong right-hand woman of the previous Speaker. We look forward with enthusiasm to what you are still going to do for us because we are facing very important challenges as members of Parliament, from all sides.

The first challenge is pensions for members. I hope the hon Minister of Finance is listening to this with big open ears. If you have served here for 10 years and leave, you go back to basically nothing. This is because you have lost all contact with what you had done previously. When you go back, they cut your income by 75%. This is the small pension that we get. It is not right that members of Parliament should get such a small pension. This is something that we must address very very urgently. [Applause.]

The same applies to salaries. Our salaries appear to some people to be huge, but our expenses are never taken into account. If you show me 100 retired politicians, I will show you 95 poor people.

Seeing that my time is running out, not as a member of Parliament but as a speaker, I want to ask: Why can we not get a housing subsidy like all civil servants? Why don’t we get a 13th cheque? I have just spotted somebody over there who is wearing a red tie and does not have hair. He must listen very carefully. [Laughter.]

Mr Manuel it’s time you get automatic. It’s time you give us a 13th cheque, housing subsidy and better pensions. [Applause.] If you don’t do that we will report you to the Speaker. [Applause.]

Mr O E MONARENG: Madam Speaker, hon Ministers and esteemed members, it is my pleasure to discuss with you a topic entitled, ``Parliament as an Organ to build and enhance a Nonracial, Nonsexist and Democratic Society in Pursuance of the National Democratic Revolution’’.

I therefore wish to proceed from the premise that that Parliament is a democratic institution by virtue of its being a body of representatives who are in office due to a democratic process. Such a democratic body has to exercise the powers vested in it by the people and the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa. This, in a nutshell, is a bird’s eye view of our understanding of what Parliament is.

My task is to expand, elaborate and unbundle this understanding, to make it relevant in the creation of a united, nonracial, nonsexist and democratic society. The national democratic revolution - it’s unfortunate that the hon Leon is not around, because he has written a document that deals with deconstructing the ANC agenda and in this document he talks about the national democratic revolution. The ANC’s position, in as far as the national democratic revolution is concerned, is far clearer and should be understood by everyone.

The national democratic revolution presupposes that the state - under which the majority of the people of South Africa suffered during the time of oppression - has to be destroyed, removed and finally exterminated and replaced by a national democratic state. It is therefore common cause that the process involved cannot be an event, but a series of stages that has to do with national and social transformation of the state.

Whereas the apartheid state created the four-nation theory, the liberation movement reduced this to the two-nation theory in the course of our struggle for liberation. It is therefore prudent to build one national social order. To quickly explain the four-nation theory, the apartheid regime categorised the racial groups in South Africa into four national groupings, ie whites, coloureds, Indians and Africans. The ANC categorised them as whites and blacks. In our language and terminology, Africans, Indians and coloureds were grouped together as the oppressed nation, whereas whites were classified as the oppressors. My definition does not mean that we are simplifying the problem.

At this point of our history, it is of pivotal importance to build the national democratic revolution. It is imperative to put in place the building blocks of this important revolutionary path. Parliament is therefore one of the tools and part of the machinery to build this revolution. We have actually started to lay the foundation. The past 10 years have been experimental, phenomenal and painstaking, and much work has been done. Through this painstaking task of writing the Constitution, through the process of writing one piece of legislation after the other, through budgetary processes, through the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, and through the Chapter 9 institutions we have been earnestly involved in implementing the process of the national democratic revolution. This Parliament is to be commended for that role.

In the national democratic revolution, we talk of a document called the ``Strategy and Tactics of the ANC’’, which originated in 1969 at the Morogoro Conference. In this document we insist that the ANC will liberate blacks in general and Africans in particular. It is a position that is thought to be an Africanist position. Hon Leon says it is an Africanist position, because in Umrabulo Comrade Joel Netshitendze articulates the position very clearly. But this is a position of the ANC informed by historical conditions. The affirmation of this position should be understood in its historical and political context, for it entails an explanation contained in the Strategy and Tactics document of 1969. It therefore suggests that other groups would benefit from this process of freedom, including whites.

Today, forced by the changed material conditions, we are forced to adapt to new conditions. We have liberated all South Africans, be they black or white, and the national democratic revolution serves as an embodiment of all classes and racial groups. We have acknowledged that the challenges, on the part of the ANC and the Government, are to build a united, nonracial, nonsexist and democratic society. This in a way has been a strategic objective of the liberation movement.

Our guiding document calls for a nonracial, nonsexist and democratic society. This is what the Freedom Charter articulates. This Parliament is a product of this strategic objective, as advanced by the liberation movement. The challenges over the 10 years of freedom have been bordering around the actual transformation of the state through the implementation of the RDP document and the Freedom Charter.

The few compromises that we have alluded to, during negotiations, took us to the 1994 election breakthrough and made it possible for a majority party to take South Africa into a new dispensation. The Ten Year Review document of Government tells a clear story of what Government and Parliament have managed to achieve. Despite the success story, the opposition as led by the DA continues to distort our policies. The hon Leon has made an extensive study of our documents and policies, hoping that his members would do the same.

Reading and understanding the policies of one’s rivals is not a bad idea indeed. However, reading and distorting those same policies is worse and is treasonable, Mr Leon. Parliamentarians can best understand the interpretation …

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon member?

Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: I could hardly believe my ears, but this hon member has just accused the hon Leader of the Opposition of saying something treasonable. Would you please instruct him to withdraw and apologise.

The SPEAKER: Hon member, did you say that the hon Leader of the Opposition has said something treasonable? If you did, I would ask you to withdraw.

Mr O E MONARENG: No. What I was explaining was that distorting the policies of an organisation deliberately and consciously is treasonable.

The SPEAKER: So you were not actually saying that he distorted policies, because if you are actually accusing a member of Parliament of doing something that one could call treasonable, you would have to do it differently from just standing at the podium. However, if you referred to an action and said that ``if it were so, it would be treasonable’’, then that is a different matter.

Mr O E MONARENG: Let me just withdraw.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, could I just address you on that very same point.

The SPEAKER: Yes, hon Chief Whip.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: The relative way of how we deal with this is that, firstly, the hon member did not refer to Mr Tony Leon. I think if that has to be verified, Hansard’s record will attest to that. I think it would have to be looked into.

The second area is that you, Madam Speaker, would have to ask the hon Chief Whip of the Opposition also not to believe his ears. [Laughter.]

The SPEAKER: Hon Monareng, you said you were withdrawing, didn’t you? Mr O E MONARENG: Yes, I am.

The SPEAKER: That’s fine. Could you proceed?

Mr O E MONARENG: Parliamentarians can best understand the interpretation of the people’s contract. We in the ANC are best practitioners of the people’s contract, not because we are authors of the manifesto document, but because we are a people-centred organisation. All our projects are people motivated and people led. The ANC in Parliament is therefore a living testimony of what people are, and what people seek to achieve.

The national democratic revolution is not just a political and ideological project of the ANC focusing on South Africa only, but a programme guiding our region, continent and the world. Its main task is simply the total liberation of people in their own countries, and to maintain the sovereignty and integrity of their own states without any form of interference or dominance by its neighbours.

As a country and people we are signatories to bilateral and multilateral agreements and conventions. We adhere strictly to all charters that seek to respect the sovereignty of countries and their independence, and which also seek to recognise and respect the human rights of people. Our diplomacy does not seek to set one country against another. We relate to countries on a bilateral basis, not on a bloc basis.

Those countries seeking to strengthen their economies, like the countries of the South, do so without the exclusion of the North. The fraternal relations of our historical allies - those who have supported us in difficult times, like Cuba, Russia, Libya and all the others in Africa and Latin America - remain unchanged.

I am just explaining these things, so that it should be understood that the ANC is the organisation that has been instrumental in bringing about democracy. This organisation has made Parliament possible. The people of South Africa must take note of that aspect. Whether or not one believes in this analysis, is not easy to tell. That is why the ANC, as a liberation movement, out of a clear study of its material conditions, had to formulate its policies and programmes based on the peculiarities of its own material conditions. It had to apply both historical and dialectical materialism to emphasise its scientific outlook. The national democratic revolution, as a term, was coined after a consideration of our political and ideological orientation. It was termed after a careful study and analysis of our history and strategic objectives. In the document termed ``No Middle Road to Freedom’’ written in 1962 after the fifth party conference by Comrade Joe Slovo, it was articulated that the South African revolution is two-pronged like a fork, for it is for both national liberation and social emancipation.

The Freedom Charter also articulates the same position. The liberation movement has also, factored in that analysis and as a consequence of our history, decided to embark on a national democratic revolution. The main thrust at this stage is to attain a nonracial, nonsexist and democratic society. It has therefore been the task of all ANC cadres to effect this primary objective in all state and social institutions in South Africa.

The transformation agenda of the entire South Africa is based on this noble goal and philosophical outlook. Parliament is one such institution, which has laid the foundation since 1994 for the building of a nonracial, nonsexist and democratic society. The challenge is a noble one in that it is very phenomenal.

The 10 years of freedom have indeed been epoch making. They have brought about numerous challenges in the private sector, the public sector, the economy, infrastructure, Government, finance, science and technology and for the people and the nation as a whole. If we fail to build the envisaged social order, history will indeed judge us harshly.

In conclusion, this Parliament had the honour and privilege, in the past, of being addressed by leading heads of state such as Fidel Castro, Julius Nyerere, Bill Clinton and others. Such events and occasions gave meaning to international solidarity, co-operation and united action to face common concerns, as well as to celebrate victories together.

It is therefore imperative, in conclusion, for this Parliament to adopt Vote 2 on Parliament. I thank you.

Mr A HARDING: Madam Speaker, hon members, the ID welcomes the appointment of the new Secretary to Parliament, and wishes him and his staff well. As we move from the political decade to an economic one, the emphasis is on delivery and targets to be achieved. Parliament’s oversight role over the executive needs to be strengthened. The ID welcomes the intended initiatives to provide more research to committees as part of Parliament’s strategic planning. The ID, however, feels that more support should be given to MPs so that they are better empowered.

After 10 years of democracy there is a need to review the role and function of committees. This must be done to ensure that committees meet their constitutional role of oversight, which I have referred to earlier on. Departments make presentations and respond to questions, but no actual engagement on oversight happens. As a result, a new work method as to how committees operate and interact with departments must be developed.

All these initiatives must be built into the strategic planning processes of Parliament. This will assist members to engage more actively with departments on policy issues and programmes. More training is required for committee support staff to deliver a more efficient service, and in this context the training and development budget should be expanded in line with the new focus of Parliament. The Public Participation Unit must be commended for its sterling work done in taking Parliament to the communities, etc. However, we require more interactive programmes on Nepad and the African Union, and we need to engage civil society more on this issue.

The marginal growth in constituency support is insufficient, especially for smaller parties, given their small funding base. Infrastructure development at constituency level is expensive, hence the amount of approximately R40,8 million is inadequate because the cost of infrastructure is the same for all parties, irrespective of their size. In addition, Parliament must review the practice of paying allowances to parties on a two-monthly basis. The allowance should be paid in full or bi- annually so that parties can derive the benefit of accrued interest.

Training of new members needs a more strategic focus, which should include budget analysis, general legislative analysis and methodologies of oversight. Such interventions will empower MPs to participate more meaningfully in the reports of various departments. The ID supports the involvement of this Parliament in multilateral organisations, and Parliament must ensure that representatives to the PAP understand that they represent the collective of this House and not their individual political parties, and therefore we suggest that participation by opposition parties in PAP sittings should perhaps happen on a rotational basis.

The problem of security at parliamentary villages and the conditions of some units need to be drastically revisited, but above all else it is the duty of Parliament to take action against errant MPs who are deliberately breaching their conditions of occupation. [Time expired.]

Mr L M GREEN: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon Ministers and members, the ACDP supports Parliament’s overriding policy and strategic objectives in making Parliament more transparent and responsive to the electorate. Let me begin my speech by thanking and commending all parliamentary staff for their commitment and hard work, from the service officers right up to senior staff. If we evaluate the performance of Parliament over the past 10 years in the light of its strategic objectives, we must admit that much progress has been made. Much has been done in Parliament to create a people- friendly atmosphere, from the children’s artwork on the walls to the daily attractive and colourful displays of the various departments. The Public Education Office has played a vital role in bringing Parliament closer to the people. It has done much to promote public understanding of, and participation in parliamentary processes, and we welcome the publication of the many newsletters, the posters, pamphlets, books and educational material which are handed out to the visiting public daily. Coming to the House today, we passed many tables containing a huge amount of material published by Parliament. This is an indication of the amount of work that is done at this institution, and I want to commend the parliamentary staff for serving MPs and the public at large.

I think Public Education has succeeded in creating effective methods of communication between Parliament and the public. Almost every day Parliament is receiving visits from tourists, hundreds of schoolchildren, nonprofit organisations, religious leaders and many other interested persons. The parliamentary website is well maintained and updated on a daily basis. It is an effective tool for communicating with the broader public and since its inception it has had over 421 000 hits.

Parliament has indeed undergone remarkable changes since we came here 10 years ago, but more is yet to come. I’m looking forward to some of the new systems to be implemented at Parliament, especially the electronic document management system and the institutional intranet. One of the greatest challenges we face as MPs every day is the voluminous amount of documents we receive daily. We have neither the time nor the space to file them and we are looking forward to the day of the paperless office here at Parliament. The ACDP supports this Vote. I thank you.

Mr M I MOSS: Madam Deputy Speaker, Comrade Deputy President, Ministers and colleagues, the Parliament of the Republic of South Africa is one of the parliaments with the most disabled members on the continent of Africa and in the world. This demonstrates representivity and inclusion of disabled people into the mainstream of politics and indeed the precincts of power and decision-making. Of the 400 members of Parliament, at least 20 are disabled, representing three parties, indeed posing a huge challenge to the other parties to do more by ensuring that they take disability and other aspects of representivity seriously.

According to the records, 16 of the 279 ANC members are disabled, which represents 6% of the total number of ANC members. It is a tribute to political parties, especially my own, the ANC, for their commitment to diversity, and indeed a good achievement of which we can be proud.

At least four of the 16 disabled members occupy positions of great responsibility. Two of them have recently been appointed as chairpersons of committees. They are Wilma Newhoudt-Druchen, who chairs the Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth and Disabled Persons, and Butana Komphela, who chairs the Portfolio Committee on Water Affairs and Forestry. The other two members are Adv Michael Masutha and Joseph Mzondeki, who have been appointed as whips in the ANC caucus. [Applause.] One is looking forward to when the President appoints disabled members to executive positions; those of Ministers and Deputy Ministers. [Interjections.]

Accessibility for ordinary disabled members of Parliament to the various buildings of Parliament before 1994 was pathetic, to say the least. Parliament grossly discriminated against disabled persons. This was a barrier to ordinary disabled people and members, which excluded them from the proceedings of Parliament. Today, 10 years later, the environment for people with disabilities has drastically improved, as there are now ramps for people who are using wheelchairs; there are accessible toilets, voice- assisted lifts, special consideration for parking, Braille facilities and sign languages. [Applause.] However, Parliament is still faced with huge challenges which need to be attended to. Among these are housing, transport, offices in Parliament, and the public galleries.

Two months after members had been sworn in as members of Parliament, some of them are still living in houses that are not adapted for the disabled. Consequently, the conditions under which these members live affect their wellbeing. Improvements to these houses must be attended to as a matter of urgency, ensuring that they are accessible and adapted for those members.

Parliament provides transport for MPs to and from the parliamentary villages. The mode of transport used are buses which are totally inaccessible to members with disabilities. Parliament should improve transport by accommodating disabled members with transport that is accessible.

Parliament allocates and provides meeting venues and offices that are conducive and accessible. However, they should improve and adapt those that are not adapted for the disabled. The public galleries in Parliament, with the exception of the one in the National Assembly, are small and not accessible. However, the National Assembly gallery needs to allocate more space for disabled persons, especially wheelchair users.

Any disabled member, especially those who use wheelchairs, will agree that the Marks Building is the worst building of all in the parliamentary complex when it comes to accessibility. There is only one access ramp and it is very steep. Only one member can master it, but with great difficulty. The other wheelchair users need to be assisted or pushed up to enter this building. This particular ramp was built two years ago without the involvement of disabled members. Come to think of it, that is a disgrace in itself.

In our national organisation, Disabled People of South Africa, we have a slogan: ``Nothing about us without us’’. [Applause.] This slogan illustrates the need for Parliament to consult with disabled members before making decisions and provision for members who are disabled. Parliament also gives assistants to disabled members to do parliamentary work, for example to go on study tours, full-time staff members to do sign- language interpretation, assistance to members on wheelchairs, and so on.

To the ANC, the importance of the issues affecting the disabled cannot be emphasised more. The office of the status of disabled persons is being housed in the Presidency. The President of the Republic of South Africa is the patron of DPSA. The Thabo Mbeki Development Trust for disabled persons caters for people with disabilities. There is a committee in Parliament called the Joint Monitoring Committee for Children, Youth and Persons with Disabilities.

We also have organisations and institutions of Government in which disabled members serve, for example the Youth Commission, the Gender Commission and others. I need to caution members to note that all people are potential disabled persons. You can become disabled through accidents, old age and sickness.

This Parliament needs to increase its budget to allocate and to ensure that this institution remains in the lead as far as providing for the needs of disabled persons in South Africa is concerned. The positive steps of Parliament should be filtered down to provincial legislatures and local government.

The fact that I am speaking from this position makes a statement, because I cannot stand at the back like other members. When the hon member from the IFP asked where the Minister of Finance was, the Minister was sitting there chatting to other members. Now, as a disabled member, I would also like to go and sit there and talk to Comrade Ngconde on issues of sport or people in prisons. [Laughter.] We are looking forward to the day when disabled members like myself can walk freely and go and sit where they want.

Maria Rantho, the first disabled member who came to this Parliament in 1994 was catered for to sit in Parliament where a small ramp was built for her. However, a lot still needs to be done. We still need to improve on many terrains, but we feel that the ANC has moved a lot and we are welcome. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr C H F GREYLING: Madam Deputy Speaker, as this is the first opportunity to officially congratulate the Speaker, as well as the Deputy Speaker, on their election, it is my pleasure to do so on behalf of the NNP. I would also like to say, without fear of any objections, that our Speaker and Deputy Speaker, besides all their other good qualities, are always really elegantly and tastefully dressed. We want to wish you both all the best for the difficult task that lies ahead of you. We have already observed that you act impartially and decisively.

Aan die agb lid mnr Geoff Doidge, ons gelukwensing met u heraanstelling as voorsitter van komitees. Eerskomende Vrydag word daar van ons vorige speaker, dr Ginwala, afskeid geneem. Dit is egter net gepas dat ek namens my party ons waardering teenoor haar uitspreek vir die pioniersrol wat sy tydens die eerste 10 jaar van ons demokrasie gespeel het.

Waar ons reeds van ons vorige sekretaris afskeid geneem het, is dit nou geleë om die nuwe sekretaris, mnr Dingani, te verwelkom en hom sterkte toe te wens met die warm stoel waarop hy reeds sit.

Die doel van hierdie begrotingspos gaan primêr oor hoe die Parlement fondse wat deur die belastingbetalers aan ons toevertrou word, bestee en dat dit nie net deursigtig nie, maar ook op ‘n verantwoordelike wyse geskied. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [To the hon member Mr Geoff Doidge, we congratulate you on your re- appointment as Chairperson of Committees. Next Friday we are taking leave of our former Speaker, Dr Ginwala. However, on behalf of my party, it is only proper that I should express our appreciation to her for the pioneering role she has played during the first 10 years of our democracy.

Since we have already taken leave of our former Secretary, this is now a suitable time to welcome the new Secretary, Mr Dingani, and to wish him strength in the hot seat that he is already occupying.

The aim of this Vote is primarily to discuss how Parliament spends the funds that the taxpayers commit to our care, and that it should not only be done in a transparent manner, but also in a responsible manner.]

It is with appreciation that we have noted the Speaker’s statement that she is not happy with the support available to MPs in terms of research and administration. And I must add my voice to that of the hon Mr Koos van der Merwe and appeal to the Minister of Finance to see that our salaries and benefits are improved. We also welcome the intended changes to enhance Parliament’s oversight and monitoring role. These steps are essential in order to ensure that Parliament can fulfil its constitutional mandate, as well as its oversight role.

Lede sien uit na die nuwe rekenaars wat ons hopelik binnekort sal ontvang en waardeer ook die verbeterde stemtoerusting en mikrorekenaars wat by ons banke aangebring is.

Wanneer ons kyk na die begroting soos dit ter tafel gelê was, sien ons dat ons Parlement as gasheer vir verskeie internasionale byeenkomste opgetree het, dat die Nasionale Vergadering tagtig sittings gehad het en vier gesamentlike sittings. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Members are looking forward to the new computers that we will, hopefully, receive soon and also appreciate the improved voice equipment and microcomputers that were installed at our benches.

When we look at the budget as tabled, we see that our Parliament acted as host for various international gatherings, and that the National Assembly had eighty sittings and four joint sittings.] Seventy Bills were introduced, while 75 Acts were produced in printed form. One-hundred-and eighty-one annual reports were tabled, together with 31 reports from the Auditor-General.

Ten einde bogenoemde te laat gebeur, is dit noodsaaklik dat die parlementêre begrotingsproses vaartbelyn sal wees en voortdurend hernieu word, en ons wens die hoof van finansies, mnr Charlton, sterkte toe in hierdie verband.

Dit is ook gepas om tydens hierdie begrotingspos die Hoofsweep en Adjunkhoofsweep van die Meerderheidsparty met hul aanstellings geluk te wens en hulle te bedank vir die samewerking wat ons in die hoofswepeforum geniet. Dank ook aan die swepe van alle ander partye vir die gesamentlike poging om die werksaamhede van die Parlement vlot te laat verloop. Die NNP ondersteun die begrotingspos. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[In order for the above-mentioned to happen, it is important for the parliamentary budgeting process to be streamlined and renewed continuously, and we wish the head of finances, Mr Charlton, strength in this regard.

It is also proper to congratulate the Chief Whip and Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party on their appointments in the course of this Vote, and to thank them for the co-operation we receive in the Chief Whips’ forum. Thanks to the whips of all the other parties as well for the joint effort to allow the business of Parliament to run smoothly. The NNP supports this Vote.]

Dr C P MULDER: Madam Deputy Speaker, the FF Plus associates itself with all the congratulations expressed by Mr Carl Greyling to all relevant people. We say the same exactly.

When we started this debate this afternoon, it sounded very much like a political debate, rather than a Vote specifically dealing with Parliament. I listened very carefully to what Mr Jeffrey and Mr Gibson had to say and I would like to start off by using the same quote that Mr Jeffrey used by referring to the Constitution, section 42(3), which basically says when referring to the National Assembly specifically:

The National Assembly is elected to represent the people …

And that means all the people, not only those who voted for the ANC -

… and to ensure government by the people …

That is, all the people …

… under the Constitution. It does this by choosing the President, by providing a national forum for public consideration of issues, by passing legislation and by scrutinising and overseeing executive action.

Mevrou die Adjunkspeaker, ek kry somtyds die indruk dat dit nie die geval in die praktyk is nie en as julle na die gesprek geluister het tussen die agb lid mnr Jeffrey en mnr Gibson, dan is daar ‘n interessante politieke debat wat aan die ontwikkel is rondom die Parlement, sy rol en sy funksie. Laat ek vinnig twee voorbeelde daarvan noem. Ons het in die verkiesing gesien dat die ANC teruggekom het met ‘n meerderheid van 70% van die stemme. Ek dink nie dit is goed vir demokrasie nie. Dit is wel goed in een opsig, naamlik dat die DA nooit weer vir die kiesers hoef te sê, vote DA to prevent a two-thirds majority'' nie. Dit is nie meer ter sake nie, maar die feit van die saak is,a 70% majority by one part is not good for any democracy’’. Die probleem is egter die volgende. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Madam Deputy Speaker, I sometimes get the impression that this is not the case in practice and if you listened to the discussion between hon members Mr Jeffrey and Mr Gibson, then there is an interesting political debate developing around Parliament, its role and its function.

Let me quickly name two examples of this. We saw during the elections that the ANC came back with a 70% majority of the votes. I don’t think that it is good for democracy. It is in fact good in one regard, namely that the DA need never again tell voters: Vote DA to prevent a two-thirds majority.'' It is not relevant any longer, but the fact of the matter is a 70% majority by one part is not good for any democracy’’. But, the problem is the following.]

One would have thought that the ANC would now have said, ``Seventy percent that is surely enough. Let us now look at how we can take democracy further by protecting and enhancing the position of the other 30%.’’

That is not the message that we are getting from the ANC in this Parliament. The message we are getting is that they say, ``Seventy percent, so there is another 30% that we still need. We have to have 100%, then we will have a truly democratic South Africa.’’

And surely that cannot be democracy. Surely that is not the way that Parliament should be run and we do not agree with that.

Mevrou die Adjunkspeaker, ek wil spesifiek verwys na twee ander kwessies in die tydjie wat oor is, wat relevant is vir politieke partye. Die een is dat die Parlement … [Madam Deputy Speaker, I specifically want to refer in the time remaining to two other matters, which are relevant to political parties. The one is that Parliament … ]

… does have its own research capacity, but surely one cannot expect political parties to necessarily make use of Parliament’s research capacity. Parties should be empowered themselves to have their own research capacity, because they know who they would like to give the research to. They know the people they would like to employ in that regard and that is something that needs to be addressed very urgently. Ek wil ook van die VF Plus se kant af vir die vertaaldiens sê ek dink hulle doen baie goeie werk. Ons is baie dankbaar vir die werk wat gedoen word. Dit kan uitgebrei word. Ons sal graag wil sien dat daar ‘n dag kom in hierdie Parlement dat elke lid vrywillig en met gemak in sy eie moedertaal optree, want ons land gee in ons Grondwet aan 11 amptelike tale erkenning, en dat ons vertaaldiens dit effektief sal hanteer soos dit tans gebeur, maar nog steeds baie beter sal wees. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[I also want to say on behalf of the FF Plus to the translation service that I think they are doing very good work. We are very grateful for the work that is being done. It could be extended. We would like to see a day in this Parliament when every member will be talking freely and comfortably in his mother tongue, because our country recognises 11 official languages in our Constitution, and that our translation services will be handling it as effectively as the case is now, but that it will be even better.]

The FF Plus would surely and gladly support this Vote. We think that specifically the Speaker’s Office is doing very good work and we would, therefore, support this Vote. Thank you very much.

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Deputy Speaker and hon members, the primary responsibility of Parliament is law-making and furthermore to ensure that Government executes those laws. Parliament is by its nature a body that has to oversee the roles of the members of the executive and other institutions that report thereto.

As members of Parliament, it is our duty to call to order and seek answers to issues that are of national interest. It is incumbent upon those who by the very nature of their offices are accountable, to give answers without viewing questions, statements and enquiries from members of Parliament as a nuisance.

To the extent that members of Parliament have to be enabled to do their work as the elected representatives of the people, our Parliament keeps trying its utmost. Travel, telephone and other facilities have been made available to members. These may not be sufficient, but they serve the purpose. After all, there is never a time when people can say they have enough of what they need. But as leaders we have to lead from the front on the question of belt-tightening and the use of resources.

The financial support provided to political parties represented in Parliament in an effort to contribute to multiparty democracy is most welcome, but the delays, as in this term, and the spasmodic manner in which this is done, call for attention. Parties need to be involved in deciding when and what allocations will be paid to them.

There are times when some members are left in wonderland when their colleagues speak in their vernacular. This is bound to happen as each speaker wishes to make a point by speaking from the heart. Finally, 10 years after democracy and the language policy having been adopted by the last Parliament, we in the Third Parliament who have been here since 1994 should have a legacy of the mastery of more languages, while the Language Services Section should in its turn hone its interpretation service.

And perhaps with the last seconds left, may I just go back to say that we need to advise the hon Gibson that two wrongs do not make a right. If the ANC is accused of flexing their numerical muscles to try and convince everybody here, no other party whatsoever should qualify itself to do so to other parties - however small they may be. I want to thank you. [Applause.]

Nk P N MNANDI: Phini likaSomlomo, Phini likaMongameli wezwe, boNgqongqoshe abahloniphekile, maPhini oNgqongqoshe, bahlonishwa, maqabane nezihlobo, okokuqala, mangithathe leli thuba ngibonge ukuthola ithuba lokuba yisikhulumi kule Nkulumo-mpikiswano yeSabiwomali sePhalamende.

Kulo nyaka iPhalamende labantu ligubha iminyaka eyishumi yenkulululeko yakuleli. Thina singuKhongolose sibonga abantu bakithi eMzansi Afrika abakuphindile futhi lokho babuyisela uKhongolose kule Ndlu ngo-elethu. Asibongi siyanconcoza. Sithi uKhongolose uyohlala njalo elithemba lamathemba kubantu bakithi.

Angiqale ngokuhlehla nyovane ngikhumbuze le Ndlu, ngamafuphi, ukuthi konje lalinjani leli Phalamende ngaphansi kombuso wamaBhunu wobandlululo. Awe ma! KwakuyiPhalamende ledlanzana elingamadoda amhlophe qwa. Kwala ngisho sebeciciyela bakha i-tricameral parliament kodwa ubandlululo lwadla umunyu. Abamhlophe babehlala ngabodwana. Abomdabu baseNdiya nomzala babehlala ngabodwana. La ePhalamende kwakungena kuphela abakhethiweyo. Ngisho kumphakathi wabamhlophe ukuza ePhalamende kwakungedokwe elaligayelwa noma ubani.

Zangena ezikaKhongolose ngo-1994 zibhodla umlilo, ziphethe uSomqulu weNkululeko ngezandla wona othi: Abantu bazobusa; Wonke umuntu wesilisa nowesifazane uyoba negunya lokuvota, nokungenela noma yiluphi ukhetho ezinhlanganweni eziphathelene nokwakhiwa kwemithetho; Bonke abantu bayovunyelwa ukubamba iqhaza ekubusweni kwezwe; Amalungelo abantu ayofana, kunganakwa ubuzwe, ibala nobulili.

Imithetho yashintshwa ubuthaphuthaphu; avuleka amasango. Leli Phalamende laba iPhalamende labantu. UmThethosisekelo wakuleli wenza abantu abamnyama eNingizimu Afrika baba yizakhamizi nemisinsi yokuzimilela ezweni lokhokho babo. Kwaqopheka umlando kuleli Phalamende ngamhla uHulumeni oholwa uKhongolose ethi izilimi ezisemthethweni kuleli ziyishumi nanye. Bheka, namhlanje kuhle kudelile. Siyagiya, siyaqephuza ngolimi esaluncela ebeleni. [Ihlombe.] Kanti ngesikhathi sikaHulumeni wamaBhunu zazimbili kuphela izilimi: olukaJoji nesiBhunu. Siyabonga Khongolose.

UHulumeni oholwa uKhongolose uye waqinisekisa ukuthi kwande abantu ababamba iqhaza ePhalamende ngokwenza izinhlelo ezinjengo-Bamba iqhaza ePhalamende ngolukaJoji, Take part in Parliament. Ngalolu hlelo kuqondwe ukuthi iningi labantu liqonde kahle ngale Ndlu yesiShayamthetho futhi lifundise abantu kuthi imithetho yenziwa kanjani, nokuthi abantu baqonde kahle ngeqhaza abangalibamba uma kwakhiwa imithetho ePhalamende.

Izinhlelo ezifana nalezi ziyasifundisa nathi sonke esilapha kule Ndlu ehloniphekile ukuthi cha bo, asivakashile lapha eKapa, asizelanga ukuzongcebeleka kodwa silapha ngoba singamehlo, sizindlebe kanye nemilomo yabantu bakithi. Abantu bakithi bayaziqhenya ngale Ndlu ehloniphekile yesiShayamthetho. Mihla namalanga baningi abaphuma bengena beqhamuka kwimikhakha eyahlukene, kusukela kubantwana bezikole kuyofika kungxiwankulu bakuleli.

Ukulethwa kwezinguquko kuleli zwe kwenze kwaba khona ukwanda kwezinhlangano ezahlukene kuleli Phalamende ngoba leli Phalamende libe yisibuko esiveza uxhaso nokusekwa kwezinhlangano. Abantu bayazibonela ngokwabo ukuthi yiziphi izinhlangano ezihambisana nezimfuno nezidingo zabo. Lokhu nje kukodwa kufanele kusijabulise, sazi ukuthi sonke thina lapha siyisibuko sezwe.

Lo Hulumeni unguhulumeni wabantu, ngakho mazande izinhlelo ezisiyisa ebantwini. Imithetho siyishayile. Manje sekuyisikhathi sokubheka ukuthi abantu bakithi bayakuvuna yini lokhu uHulumeni akutshalile. Thina singuKhongolose, sikhathazekile ngemifanekiso elapha ngaphandle kwePhalamende. Kukhona laphaya indoda egibele ihhashi, uLouis Botha, Laphaya ngenzansi kukhona iNdlovukazi uVictoria. Akukho lutho nje olukhombisa uHulumeni wentando yeningi. Sesiphathe iminyaka eyishumi, bakwethu. Nokwethu makuvele, kube khona ngaphandle.

Asibonge kubaholi abakhokhela uKhongolose kuleli Phalamende. Bakhombisile ubuholi obuqotho nobuqavile. Kuthe noma sekuvulwa ukuthi ilungu lingahamba nesihlalo salo, uKhongolose uye watomula kakhulu kunezinye izinhlangano. Akekho noyedwa kule Ndlu oyilungu likaKhongolose oye waqoma ukuya kwenye inhlangano. UKhongolose selokhu angena kuleli Phalamende uya edlondlobala. Ngo-1994 wangena ngamaphesenti angama-62. Ngo-1999 wangena …

Mnu M B SKOSANA: Somlomo, bengithi angilungise lapha ukuthi kule minyaka elishumi, njengoba ebeka udadewethu, izinguquko zilethwe uKhongolose ebambisene ne-IFP. [Uhleko.] Ngilungisa lapho nje kuphela, Somlomo. [Ubuwelewele.]

IPHINI LIKASOMLOMO: Sewulungisile baba. Qhubeka, ma.

Nk P N MNANDI: Phini likaSomlomo uHulumeni oholwa uKhongolose ngo-1999 wangena ngamaphesenti angama-65 ePhalamende, ngo-2004 ungene ngamaphesenti angama-70 gelekeqe. Halala Khongolose, Halala! Phambili nenqubo yentando yeningi, phambili! [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu speech follows.)

[Ms P N MNANDI: Madam Deputy Speaker, Mr Deputy President, honourable Ministers, Deputy Ministers, honourable members, comrades and friends, firstly, let me take this opportunity to express my gratitude for the honour of participating in this Budget debate of Parliament.

This year the people’s Parliament is celebrating 10 years of this country’s freedom. We as the ANC are grateful to our fellow South Africans, who once again returned the ANC to this House with an overwhelming majority. Thank you very much! The ANC will always be the source of hope for our people.

Let me go back a little and remind this House briefly of just how this Parliament used to be under the apartheid regime of the Afrikaners. Good grief! It used to be a parliament for a few lily-white males. Even when they concocted the tricameral parliament, racial discrimination was still the order of the day. The whites were still separated from the rest. Blacks of Indian origin as well as our cousins were separated from the whites. Access to the precincts of this Parliament was limited to a chosen few. It was not easy even for members of the white community to visit Parliament.

Then came the ANC in 1994, spitting fire and brandishing the Freedom Charter, which says: The people shall govern. Every person, male and female, shall have the right to vote and to stand for election in any legislative body. Everybody has the right to participate in the governance of the country. Everybody has the same human rights, regardless of race, colour or gender.

Laws were changed one after another. The gates were opened. This Parliament became the Parliament of the people. The Constitution of this country gave the black people of South Africa the rights of citizenship as well as security of tenure in the country of their ancestors. History was made in this Parliament when the ANC-led Government declared that there would be eleven official languages. Look how wonderful things are today! We are able to express ourselves freely in our mother tongues … [Applause.] … unlike the apartheid era when there were only two official languages: English and Afrikaans. Thank you, ANC.

The ANC-led Government ensured that more people would participate in Parliament through programmes such as the “Take part in Parliament” campaign. The aim of this programme is to make as many people as possible understand what this House stands for and to educate them about the legislative process and to make them understand fully the role that they may play when laws are passed in Parliament.

Such programmes also teach all of us in this august House that we are not tourists in Cape Town; that we have not come here to relax but that we are here because we are the eyes, the ears and the mouths of our people. Our people are very proud of this House of Parliament. Every day, people from all walks of life - from students to our country’s captains of industry - go in and out of this House.

The transformation of this country has made it possible for a number of political parties to be represented in this Parliament because this Parliament is a reflection of the extent to which each party is supported. The people are able to see for themselves which organisations are aligned to their needs. That alone must make us very happy in the knowledge that all of us here are the reflection of the nation.

This Government is the Government of the people. Therefore, let there be more people-oriented programmes. We have passed the laws. It is now time to find out whether or not our people are benefiting from the Government’s programmes. We as the ANC are not happy about some of the statues that have been erected around Parliament. There is that man on a horse out there - a certain Louis Botha. Further down, there is the statue of Queen Victoria. There is absolutely nothing that reflects our democratic Government. We have been in power for 10 years now. Let our impact be reflected. Let it come out into the open.

Let us express our gratitude to the ANC leadership in this Parliament. They have manifested great leadership qualities. Even when a window of opportunity was opened for members to cross the floor, the ANC was the greatest benefactor. There is not a single person in this House who is a member of the ANC who opted to join another party. Ever since the ANC came to power, it has gone from strength to strength. In 1994, it came to power with 62% of the vote. In 1999 it came to power …

Mr M B SKOSANA: Madam Speaker, I would like to set the record straight by pointing out that during the past ten years, as my sister points out, the transformation was brought about by the ANC in collaboration with the IFP. [Laughter.] I just wanted to set that record straight, Madam Speaker. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You have done that, sir. Continue, hon member.

Ms P N MNANDI: Madam Deputy Speaker, in 1999 the ANC-led Government came to power with 65% of the vote. In 2004 it came to power with a hefty 70% of the vote. Viva, ANC, viva! Forward with democracy, forward! [Applause.]] Mr N T GODI: Madam Deputy Speaker, Deputy President, Cabinet Ministers and hon members, apart from the people, Parliament is one of the most critical cogs of our democracy. It expresses the will of the people by enacting legislation and setting up structures and systems that have given a platform and a voice to all our people. Its smooth and efficient functioning is therefore essential in our dialectical march towards a genuinely free and equal society.

The PAC supports this budget. Going through the purposes and measurable objectives of each of the Votes in the Budget, one gets a sense of an institution equal to its task and having certainty about its mission. One of the challenges of the democratic Parliament is to ensure public participation in a manner that enhances its work and is responsive to the aspirations of the electorate. The democratic Parliament must substantively differ from the pre-democratic one insofar as its accessibility and linkage to the public is concerned. Parliament was enemy territory to the majority of our people and a preserve of the minority.

Great strides have been made in the past decade to transform this institution into a real people’s Parliament, brought about by and accountable to the people. It is incumbent on us as parliamentarians not to betray the public trust, especially since our mandate has just been renewed.

The PAC hopes that the question of the restructuring of the portfolio committees will be finalised very soon. It will be recalled that we have had some problems with ad hoc committees not being properly filled, especially with members from the minority parties. This has been due to some amongst us not exerting themselves sufficiently to the appointed work of Parliament. We need to use this occasion to remind ourselves and renew our dedication and responsibility to the work that we do for our country. The point is, if we focus on members’ facilities and support for political parties in Parliament, to what extent is that commensurate with the amount of work that members do?

The call of the PAC is for all of us to work and work in the interest of the nation. Facilities provided for members do go a long way to make life easier for us. Where self-interest is concerned, in most cases, subjectivism creeps in. However, the perception persists out there that parliamentarians are swimming in a huge bowl of gravy, and yet the reality is that we are drowning in a heap of papers. Through the punched holes of these papers, we see that there is a steady increase in the MTEF allocation. This situation we appreciate and hope that the lot of our members will be bettered.

HON MEMBERS: Malibongwe! [Let it be praised!]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Igama lamakhosikazi! [The name of women!] Madam Deputy Speaker, noting the importance of our national legislation, the MF supports the budget allocation required to ensure the efficient and effective convening of matters to secure a sustainable legislative body of governance. The MF associates itself with the thanking of all the parliamentary staff for the sterling work and for their assistance and co- operation. It is here in this House that the people are heard, represented and served.

Following our third democratic election, the people have spoken once again and put together a body of Government representatives to take care of their needs, successes and advancement. We each stand here under a solemn oath to deliver to our people in terms of their needs, in their best interest. We are especially proud of the positions held by women in our Parliament. They are ever ready to deliver. After all, who can deliver better than our women? Malibongwe! [Let it be praised!]

HON MEMBERS: Igama lamakhosikazi! [The name of women!]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Deputy Speaker, both the NA and the NCOP constitute a fine display of representivity with a keen ability to serve our nation. The important matters of budget legislation, amongst other matters of concern, are the documentation setting up our society’s structure. The MF is honoured to be part of this governing process. We strongly support the intention to provide accessibility to Parliament and public participation in our processes. In view of our national Constitution of 1996, the MF applauds Parliament for maintaining its processes within the constitutional boundaries.

We, however, seek larger funding for smaller parties to enable us to function efficiently in fulfilling our parliamentary duties and tasks. The basic funding offered to smaller parties is not sufficient to accommodate the necessary support for our functions. We hope that the matter will be looked into and that there would be a revision of the disbursement of funds. Also, the allocation of speaking times needs to be reviewed to afford us the opportunity to deliver efficiently.

The MF supports the Vote. [Applause.]

Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Deputy Speaker, one of the main objectives of Parliament’s budget is to provide members with the necessary facilities to empower them to carry out the mandate of the electorate effectively. I regret to state that the objective in respect of members’ facilities falls far short. It is unfortunate that the ad hoc committee on the Parliamentary budget has not met to date. I hope that Madam Speaker can offer the House an explanation in this regard when she responds later.

The public out there believes that MPs live in grand luxury, in fully furnished apartments in the parliamentary villages, all at the expense of the taxpayer. I`d like to tell them the reality. We live in Smartie- coloured prefab boxes furnished with antiquated furniture, poorly maintained and have interruptions to the power and water supply because of a weak infrastructure.

The lights in Acacia Park went out at about 2 am this morning. By the time I left for work at about half past six, they were still not working in the village, although the power to the surrounding suburb had been sorted out. Many residents used candlelight to get ready for work, and I can assure you that there is nothing romantic about candlelight on a cold winter morning. Last year we went a whole week without electricity and water. Besides the inconvenience, members were left out of pocket with spoiled food. Perhaps Parliament should make available a survival kit to all MPs upon their induction.

Many commissions have recommended a housing allowance as part of an MP’s package, but their recommendations still have to see the light of day while Parliament spends money in a piecemeal fashion to fix bits and bobs of pipe in the parliamentary village. Members lack the most basic resources to function effectively and are frustrated on a daily basis by the grindingly slow pace to access these resources.

We are now two months into the Third Parliament and all new members are still paper based because computers are not available. The tender process for computers was completed at the end of May and I have been advised that members will only get their computers when they return in August. This is an untenable situation. It is not as though the 400 new members were a surprise. We go into recess next week without one of the most basic tools of our work.

The issue of incomplete records of Hansard has long dogged Parliament. It is unacceptable that the reporting has fallen so far behind. The hard cover copy is behind by approximately two-and-a-half years and the soft cover copy is behind by one-and-a-half years. Hansard is not able to comply timeously with requests for speeches made weeks ago, due to a lack of capacity. Some nonreturning members were particularly sad that they were unable to get their bound copy of the speeches before they left. Again, this is an unacceptable situation.

Speaking of nonreturning members, the process involved in acquiring their separation pay was painful, lengthy and heightened the anxiety of those who needed the money to meet stop orders.

The issue of parking might appear to be a mundane one, but I promise you, it has got many members hot under the bonnet. There are 650 parking bays on the parliamentary precinct, yet many members have to park off the precinct as priority is given to officials. Given that members sometimes work as late as 7 pm, surely they should be given priority to park on site? Presently the ANC is involved in a bun fight with us on the issue of parking and I sincerely hope that we will reach an amicable solution soon.

Madam Deputy Speaker, the media and the public are quick to tag along when MPs fail in their duty, but I hope that in highlighting the inadequacies, it would be acknowledged that an MP who is well supported will perform his task to the maximum and meet the mandate that his electorate has given him. To this end I urge Parliament to ensure that the budget keeps pace with the expansion of the needs of its members.

In conclusion, I would like to place on record sincere thanks to the presiding officers, the Table staff and the service officers for the excellent service given to us in the House. I would also like to state my appreciation to all my colleagues in the Chief Whip’s Forum for the collegial manner in which we conduct our business. [Applause.]

Mr A C NEL: Madam Deputy Speaker, I want to speak today about the role, vision and mission of Parliament, but before I do so, I think it is necessary to say one or two words about some of the remarks made by the hon Mr Gibson, especially when he was dealing with the issue of the election of the Pan-African Parliament. In the course of speaking on that issue, he referred to the ANC exercising a veto over the whole of the opposition. He also spoke about the majority oppressing a minority. I think we need to address those issues, because we cannot allow falsehood to become the truth simply through frequent repetition.

What Mr Gibson was referring to was the fact that in terms of the statutes establishing the Pan-African Parliament, each member of Parliament is required to elect a delegation of five members to the Pan-African Parliament. The guidelines further say that that delegation must be representative, broadly speaking, of the diversity of opinion within that Parliament.

It further says that that delegation must be representative in terms of gender, and that at least two members out of the five must be women. Our Parliament has gone further than that. We have said that three out of the five must be women. Mr Gibson now says that it was for the previous delegation. I hope that he and the DA are not thinking of backtracking from the progressive stance that we took in the past.

Mr D H M GIBSON: [Inaudible.]

Mr A C NEL: Yes, as I have said, I hope we are not thinking about backtracking from that progressive position. [Interjections.] When the time comes to elect that delegation, it is this Parliament as a whole that must express its opinion as to whom should represent us at that forum. We can’t have a situation where any one party insists that, as of right, it must represent us as a Parliament in that body. So, at the end of the day, talk of a veto right or of a majority oppressing a minority, is not correct.

The fact is that the DA, through arrogance, has not been able to convince a majority of parties to support one of its members to be a delegate. [Interjections.] I think we must bring this issue to an end, because at the end of the day the DA perspective rests on a particular conception of what Parliament is and how Parliament functions. They cling to an old, outmoded Westminster conception where there is a ruling party and an official opposition, and certain privileges accrue to an official opposition. That is not the case in our Parliament … [Interjections.] … and I think we must bury that issue once and for all.

I would now like to turn to discussing the vision and mission of our Parliament. The central challenge facing all South Africans remains the creation of a united, nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous nation. We face the challenge of transforming our society from its colonial and apartheid past of racism, oppression, exploitation and poverty, to a people-centred and people-driven society where all participate actively in determining their future and the creation of a better life for all.

In order to reach this overall objective we must do certain things. We need to ensure that our society is democratised, that there is good governance, and that our state machinery is capable of delivering what the people have mandated Government to do. We also need to transform our country’s economy, as well as to make sure that the social needs of our people are met and that all in our society enjoy safety and security. These goals might sound simple, but in the South African context they are nothing short of revolutionary and represent a mammoth task that requires the active participation and resources of all South Africans.

There rests a heavy responsibility on us as public representatives, the parties to which we belong and the Parliament in which we represent those who have elected us to ensure that we play an active and meaningful role in achieving these objectives. For some these goals are sinister and antithetical to our Constitution. The hon Morareng has already dealt with attacks launched by the hon Mr Leon on the need to transform our society and to make it representative in terms of, amongst others, race and gender. The founding provisions of our Constitution state, and I quote:

The Republic of South Africa is one sovereign democratic state founded on the following values: human dignity, the achievement of equality and the advancement of human rights and freedoms; nonracialism and nonsexism; supremacy of the Constitution and the rule of law; universal adult suffrage, a national common voters’ roll, regular elections and a multiparty system of democratic government, to ensure accountability, responsiveness and openness.

We would argue that a correct reading of the founding provisions of our Constitution will lead to the conclusion that the realisation of these founding provisions can only be attained through the achievement of the goals set out above, which Mr Leon alleges undermine our Constitution.

Our Constitution provides for different branches of government: legislative, executive and judicial. It also provides for three spheres of government, namely national, provincial and local. These spheres of government are enjoined by the Constitution to work together in co- operative government to ensure that the wellbeing of the people of the Republic is secured.

In order to ensure that Government truly serves the interests of the people, we need to strengthen co-operative governance amongst all spheres of government - national, provincial and local. As public representatives, we need to ensure that our democracy functions properly, and that it addresses the interests of the masses of our people. We need to strengthen the relations between the Government and the people, and ensure that policies that have been agreed on, and which have been translated into legislation, actually make an impact with regard to improving the lives of the people.

In his state of the nation address, the President presented a clear programme of action designed to translate principles and policy into tangible improvements in the lives of our people. This programme sets out clear short, medium and long-term goals. We as public representatives, and Parliament as an institution, must play a central role in the implementation of this programme and the building of a people’s contract to create work and fight poverty.

We must play an active role through our work in constituencies, and we must intervene proactively to help remove any obstacles to achieving the objectives of improving the lives of the people and strengthening the links between the people and Government.

The ANC manifesto calls for improved interaction between Government and the people through accountable public representatives; one-stop Government centres, izimbizos and the use of electronic Government services; and also for better co-operation among national, provincial and local governments with integrated planning and monitoring of implementation, and a common system of public service.

As a Parliament we need to conclude the process started during the Second Parliament, of defining the mission and vision of Parliament. We need to ensure that members of Parliament are adequately equipped and resourced to do what is expected of them.

We need to ensure that parliamentary committees are geared to carry out their oversight function, and help remove obstacles to improving the lives of the people and strengthening the links between the people and Government. This will include ensuring that committees have the necessary resources - financial, human and technical - to carry out their tasks. It will also require of Parliament to schedule its work in such a way as to allow committees to do direct and active oversight work. Parliament will also need to look seriously at how our committee system is managed. We will need to make sure that there is co-operation between committees in similar clusters.

The work of public representatives does not begin and end at the gates of Parliament. It is vital that members of Parliament play an active role in their constituencies. We need to ask whether the resources presently allocated by Parliament to members to do constituency work are sufficient to play a meaningful role. We also need to ask whether the time allocated to constituency work is sufficient and properly structured. We need to ensure the widest range of public participation in Parliament.

In pursuit of the goals of co-operative governance, we need to co-operate with, support and assist the councillors in local government. We also need to promote a closer working relationship between the National Assembly and the NCOP. Parliament will need to ensure that it is in a position to play an active role in the Pan-African Parliament, and that issues concerning our continent are debated in Parliament.

We would want to conclude by extending our appreciation to the presiding officers, the Chairperson of Committees, the members of the Chief Whips’ Forum, the Secretary to Parliament and all members of the Parliamentary Service: cleaners, service officers and in particular Mr Keith Goskar, the Chief Service Officer, who will be retiring at the end of this month, security personnel, catering staff, managers, Hansard staff, Table staff, legal advisers, the media, parliamentary officers and other members of the Public Service, and support staff of various parties - in short, all those who contribute on a daily basis to enable Parliament to serve the people of South Africa.

Lastly, this speech would not be complete without paying tribute to Dr Frene Ginwala for the role she played as Speaker of our first and second democratic Parliaments. I thank you. [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. May I first of all acknowledge and pay tribute to a very important member of my family who is sitting in the gallery, ie my youngest child. Although he himself is most of the time quite neglected, when he heard that I was going to be speaking today, he offered to come and give me moral support. [Applause.]

Madam Speaker, … Madam Deputy Speaker, … [Laughter.] That should tell you how long it takes for one to adjust! The beginning of the third democratically elected Parliament is an opportunity for us to look back over the past 10 years and to assess how far we have come. As we commence work with a new mandate, we have a responsibility to build on what has already been achieved since 1994.

I believe we can take a great deal of pride from what we have done, as many speakers today have pointed out. We are taking our lawmaking function very seriously and have passed many very important Bills to transform our society in the interest of all our people. Almost every sector of society has benefited from this process.

What is also very important is the manner in which we have gone about our lawmaking function. We have rewritten the Rules to ensure that adequate opportunities are built-in to engage with the public, and that the whole process is open and transparent. We have also created a vibrant committee structure that has enabled us to devote the necessary detailed attention to each piece of legislation, as well as to receive public submissions and give careful consideration to them.

Over the years, extensive public hearings have been held on a wide range of issues, thus ensuring active public involvement. Parliament has indeed become an institution of the people. The parliamentary service has also been restructured and transformed to reflect our society and to be responsive to it.

Parliament has become a hub of activity and there is ample evidence that people generally have developed a confidence that Parliament is ready and able to fulfil its constitutional mandate and change their lives for the better. The number of visitors we receive demonstrates the extent of public interest in this institution. We must ensure that the level of public confidence and engagement with the public are maintained and indeed increased. Although we have made significant strides, I think we should all be aware that there is much left to be done.

We should therefore approach our parliamentary programme, our strategic plans and our budget with that in mind. During the Second Parliament, discussions had already begun on areas that require adjustment and improvement and the Second Parliament left us with a range of legacy reports which we need to take further. These include the reports on parliamentary oversight and accountability and on scrutiny of delegated legislation.

The need for a rethink on the political management of the institution was also identified. A particular issue that requires attention is how to improve on members staying in touch with the electorate. Some of the situations we saw during the election campaign, no doubt, attest to this. One of the ways to do this is through a revamped constituency work system.

Some of the questions we must ask are: Do members have enough time, on a regular basis, to serve their constituencies effectively? Has enough been budgeted to enable members to carry out their duties, to monitor and ensure delivery on the ground? Funds are provided for parties to set up constituency offices, but we now need to assess whether these offices should be party-political offices and how the whole constituency office system should be restructured.

The former Speaker, Dr Ginwala, tabled some proposals in this respect. The essence of the proposals was that we retain the present offices as party- political offices, as they clearly serve a purpose. In addition we must also consider establishing offices in strategic areas that are run by Parliament itself. Through the parliamentary offices, members of the public can directly obtain information on parliamentary matters.

Members of the public can also raise some issues of concern and make submissions into policy and legislative debates. We should give this matter serious consideration, in order to determine how best our plans and future budgets should cater for these kinds of arrangements. The question of whether adequate resources are currently made available for MPs’ work is indeed an important one, as I already heard the responses of the members as I am speaking.

Apart from reviewing the parliamentary calendar to ensure that more time is made available for members’ constituency work, there are other creative ideas which we should take further, from the ream of ideas to improve the public’s access to Parliament. Although we have done much to make Parliament accessible to the people, there is lots of room for further improvement.

We should consider whether public hearings by committees should not be held more frequently elsewhere rather than in Cape Town. [Applause.] Many poor people will remain outside of these activities if we keep them in Cape Town. The other matter is how technology, such as video conferencing

• which, I believe, is already being used by the NCOP or is in the process of being introduced - and a parliamentary radio station can be used to improve access to and contact with the public.

More resources should also be made available to inform people through the electronic media to communicate with Parliament about the opportunities that exist for them. Many South Africans continue not to know that they have a right to make submissions to parliamentary debates. I myself came across a lot of people during the election campaign who were really surprised to hear that indeed they have a right to participate somehow by making submissions, written or oral, into parliamentary debates. As I have mentioned, one of the legacy reports from the Second Parliament, relates to Parliament’s oversight function. As indicated earlier in this debate, the recommendations adopted in the Second Parliament must be implemented systematically. Members and committees need to satisfy themselves that the laws they have made are being effectively implemented and are making the difference in people’s lives that was intended when they were being formulated.

I believe in this respect, there are other parliamentary systems that have lessons that we could copy and I immediately think here of the Chinese system where even as parliament is formulating laws and policies, there is a mechanism and a structure that follows up and tries to monitor how in fact these are now being implemented on the ground, to ensure that indeed we do not do a lot of work here which in fact gets wasted when in fact these laws have come out of the parliamentary conveyor belt, as we sometimes operate. [Applause.]

We must give more attention to the nature of the interface between the executive and the members of Parliament as representatives of the people. The problems and shortcomings, which in fact were raised in the report of the oversight and accountability ad hoc committee report as adopted by the previous Joint Rules Committee must also be solved. And as members have already indicated, in implementing the recommendations we adopted, we need to systematically look in detail at what needs to be done and how the details need to be worked out as to how resources are allocated for which aspects of the work that needs to be done.

I wish to say something about the strategic plans for Parliament. I believe the public and members of the press were informed by Ministries of strategic plans which are already being operationalised, and members of Parliament themselves have already been briefed in their committees.

Of course, in the case of Parliament, which is quite different from a department or a Ministry, the process still unfolds and the new Secretary has been talking to various levels of management. In fact on 6 July there is going to be a management strategic planning session with all 60 managers of Parliament, and they are expected to finalise their own plans for the respective structures that they head.

We promise that by 1 August when parliamentarians come back for committee meetings, the plans will be in place. These plans will contain within them a service delivery improvement plan, which is aimed at ensuring that this Third Parliament operates at an effective, efficient and economic level. These, of course, will serve as an instrument to align finances and other resources in achieving the outputs set for Parliament by the strategic planning processes.

Hon members, we are all aware that by the end of the Second Parliament a Bill had already been tabled and put to a committee of Parliament - or at least it was referred to a committee of Parliament. The Bill is called the Financial Management of Parliamentary and Provincial Legislators Administration Bill. It is a Bill that will serve, if you like, as an equivalent of the PFMA, whereby there is a legal framework that determines how parliamentary finances - and, of course, this also refers to the provincial level - will be managed in a manner that is in keeping with the demands of good governance, and in particular the commitments that we have made to our people.

We believe that when we come back from recess, this Bill would be one of those which we’ll prioritise in terms of putting it through the system of Parliament, so that as soon as possible we do have a legal framework that enables us to do the right thing in terms of how we manage the finances of Parliament. This would also be related to the strategic plans that will come out of the processes of strategic planning that I have referred to earlier on.

I also want to make reference now to some challenges that we might have in the foreseeable future. In addressing the challenges before us as mentioned by speakers today, there are some strategic objectives I would like to mention which have to be accomplished.

We believe, as the leadership of Parliament, that building the oversight process I referred to earlier, that ensures quality, scrutiny and is driven by the ideal of realising a better life for the people of South Africa, would also give effect to the notion of a people’s contract, which is the commitment on the basis of which this Parliament was created through the last elections.

We need to ensure that this Parliament is truly transformed into a people’s assembly that is responsive to the needs of the people of South Africa. In this we need to address the matter of the constituency offices. We also need to address all the other issues, and our public involvement and participation processes must indeed be re-orientated to achieve the goals that we have set for ourselves.

In strengthening and building our capacity to participate beyond the borders of South Africa, we must of course look at the continental level, the SADC level in terms of the work that we do in the Committee of International Affairs and other structures and delegations of Parliament that enable us to interact with our colleagues on the rest of the continent.

In this respect, I would like to mention that shortly, in July, the summit of the heads of state of the AU will be taking the decision on the question of the seat of the Pan-African Parliament. As you know, our own country is bidding for this possibility of hosting the Pan-African Parliament, and we have a competitor in Egypt. We can only hope that we will succeed but, hon members, whether or not we do succeed, we as a Parliament will continue to make sure we have the capacity to take positions, to process issues and to take a stand on matters, so that we can enable our delegations that interact on our behalf in these forums to give a view that is in keeping with our own approaches on these matters. For instance, in terms of the Pan-African Parliament, we as South Africa took the view through the ad hoc committees that were created at the launch of the Pan-African Parliament - and there are three ad hoc committees - that the Rules Ad Hoc Committee of the Pan-African Parliament is the most important one, because it would be that committee that would shape and design this Parliament.

So in fact, through our own participation in that Rules Committee, we have to create capacity here in this Parliament to make sure that the positions we take and pursue in the work that we do in that Rules Committee and in the Pan-African Parliament are, indeed, something that South Africa would be proud of. And therefore, whether or not we host the Pan-African Parliament, this Parliament has a duty to have the capacity to interact and participate in the Pan-African Parliament in the correct way. So I wish just to indicate that even our budget as Parliament would always have to enable us to do this work effectively.

Hon members and Deputy Speaker, as we build an effective and efficient institution, there continue to be challenges that we’ve got to debate, process and take positions on. And I want to just, as I move towards the end of my speech, mention some of these.

There is a big challenge on the question of space and accommodation needs of Parliament. We will all be aware that the parliaments before 1994 were not of this size, even in terms of just the seats in Parliament. That therefore also means that even the number of staff, the capacity that is needed for administrative support to the members of Parliament has increased since 1994.

We have now come back and after the first 10 years of Parliament we have learnt lessons, therefore we have better ideas of how we need to increase the capacity of Parliament to do the things that we are suppose to do. We have found that indeed the space challenges are enormous. So I don’t know. I have not suggested anything about moving Parliament: I am simply saying that we have space challenges. And we have been walking up and down into the basements looking at how to accommodate our staff and our new members of Parliament. So that is one area.

In fact I must mention that one of the ways in which we have tried to look at this issue was to apply for floor space at the old Sars building. In fact there is renovation work that is continuing in that building, and we hope that five floors will be available to Parliament as from November. We hope that everybody who is requested - staff, members of Parliament, the press - would be willing to co-operate and move into those offices as soon as they are ready.

We are also looking at the issue of how to utilise the old British High Commission offices. There are ideas that are under discussion right now as to how best to utilise that space. One of the reasons, in fact, that adds a lot of pressure on space is the implementation of the new language policy that was adopted in the Second Parliament. In view of the new language policy, we are in the process of recruiting many more staff members, both for Hansard work and for other areas of work in terms of implementation of this language policy. Indeed, one of the problems is, where do you place these staff members who would come and beef up that element of the work of Parliament.

There are always requests for improvements in catering for the needs of members with disabilities. There are many more members with disabilities in this Parliament than in the previous two Parliaments, and we are finding that in some cases we need to employ staff to come and assist the members of Parliament concerned. And so as that happens we need more space, we need more facilities, and we need more resources. Therefore even our budget must also cater for these needs.

The fourth area in terms of challenges that we are tackling on an ongoing basis is how best to use technology in terms of modern systems that need to be put in place. We have a brand new Secretary to Parliament, much younger and raring to improve facilities in Parliament. [Applause.] And he points out that, indeed, we have got to come on board and move into the 21st century, and there is no way he would allow himself to have the dubious honour of continuing with resources, situations and systems of the past century.

Lastly, hon members, we need to improve on the human resource capacity of Parliament, and in that respect I just want to mention the committee system. I know that chairpersons and, of course, all of us who are members of committees are aware of some of the challenges we continue to face with regard to the support that we need for committee work. Therefore human resource capacity is an ongoing challenge, particularly in the committee section.

However, the other section that continues to be a challenge to us in terms of upgrading the human resource capacity is the International Relations Section. We realised halfway through the life span of the Second Parliament that we had not really adequately planned for that particular section. And in fact, we had to upgrade even the levels of the support staff that we need there.

The challenge has been - and I am glad to see that the Minister of Foreign Affairs is with us - where to find the staff with the necessary skills, exposure and experience. If the Minister can allow us, we are even ready to negotiate poaching from the Minister’s department, because we really need to capacitate Parliament in terms of the support that is needed for our international relations work. Given the role that South Africa is expected to play internationally, Parliament must be ready to interact at that level in a manner that is in keeping with the role that is expected of this country. And so we definitely have to also upgrade the kind of human resource capacity that we have as an institution.

These are some of the challenges that we will continue to face, and we hope that even the Minister of Finance, whom I saw at some point, is listening and is hearing us in terms of the resources and future budgets that will have to cater for all these needs.

Hon members, Madam Deputy Speaker, indeed, I must thank all the members who participated in the debate. And yes, Mr Van der Merwe, I heard you loud and clear. I think there are a lot of good suggestions that members have made and a lot of thinking that has to be put together. Perhaps when the management of Parliament goes on a strategic planning session, they could also take a lot of that on board in terms of the deliberations at that seminar.

Hon members, I really look forward to a five-year period that is challenging in terms of our role and how we respond to the need for this institution to also come on board in terms of realising a people’s contract. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

REVIVAL OF PROTECTION OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEMOCRACY AGAINST TERRORISM AND RELATED ACTIVITIES BILL

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Deputy Speaker, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That, subject to the concurrence of the National Council of Provinces, the Protection of Constitutional Democracy against Terrorist and Related Activities Bill [B 12 - 2003] (National Assembly - section 75), which was originally introduced as the Anti-Terrorism Bill, be revived and consideration of the Bill be resumed from the stage where the Bill in the version passed by the National Assembly [B 12B - (Reprint)] is transmitted to the National Council of Provinces for its concurrence.

Agreed to.

              REVIVAL OF NATIONAL PORTS AUTHORITY BILL

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Deputy Speaker, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  in the Second Parliament the National Ports Authority Bill [B
       5B - 2003] (National Assembly - section 75) was passed by the
       National Assembly on 16 September 2003 and referred to the
       National Council of Provinces for concurrence; and


   (b)  the National Council of Provinces was unable to complete its
       consideration of the Bill before the end of the Second
       Parliament and the Bill consequently lapsed; and

(2) resolves, subject to the concurrence of the Council, that the National Ports Authority Bill [B 5B - 2003] be revived and consideration of the Bill be resumed from the stage where it stands referred to the relevant committee of the Assembly for consideration and report. Agreed to.

       ELECTION OF MEMBERS TO THE JUDICIAL SERVICES COMMISSION

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Deputy Speaker, I move:

That the House appoints the following members to the Judicial Service Commission:

Adv J H de Lange Ms L B Hendricks Adv T M Masutha Mrs S M Camerer Mr J H van der Merwe Mr C V Burgess

Agreed to.

         ELECTION OF MEMBERS OF THE MAGISTRATES' COMMISSION

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Deputy Speaker, I move:

That the House -

(1) appoints the following members to the Magistrates Commission: Ms F I Chohan-Khota, Ms N M Mahlawe and Dr J T Delport; and

(2) notes that, although Adv Z L Madasa’s name had been put forward for appointment to the Commission, he is not available for appointment and the fourth member of the National Assembly will therefore be appointed later.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Adv Madasa, do you want to address us?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Deputy Speaker, on that point I just want to indicate that he has advised that he is withdrawing. Thanks.

Adv Z L MADASA: Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to say that, yes, I have withdrawn, but to also indicate that I did not stand in the first place. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, whichever way you look at it, it still comes to the point, as the Chief Whip mentioned, that there is a vacancy. Are there any objections to what was raised by the Chief Whip of the Majority Party? No objections.

Agreed to.

The House adjourned at 16:25.