National Council of Provinces - 09 September 2003
TUESDAY, 9 SEPTEMBER 2003 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:01.
The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
QUESTIONS AND REPLIES - see that book.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
GOVERNMENT DEPARTMENTS' DEBTS TO MUNICIPALITIES
(Draft Resolution)
Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council - (1) notes that -
(a) the total amount owed to municipalities for services rendered
amounted to R23 787 million as at 30 June 2002;
(b) the current trends indicate that the amounts owed to
municipalities for services rendered are increasing; and
(c) it is estimated by the Minister for Provincial and Local
Government that approximately 6% of the total accumulated
municipal services debt is owed by national and provincial
government departments, which amounted to approximately R1 400
million as at December 2002; and
(2) urges all national and provincial government departments who owe any monies to municipalities in respect of municipal services debts to set the example for other South Africans who also owe monies to municipalities for services rendered to pay the outstanding amounts immediately.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
VIOLENT CRIME IN TABLE VIEW
(Draft Resolution)
Mr J HORNE: Chairperson, I would like to move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that -
(a) the suburbs of the Cape Peninsula, and especially Table View,
have in recent weeks been increasingly targeted by criminals to
carry out attacks of extreme violence on its residents; and
(b) besides a bank robbery in Table View two weeks ago as well as
other crime in the area, a woman was brutally assaulted and
robbed in broad daylight outside her church on Monday morning, 1
September 2003 - not only was this woman badly traumatised but
she also had to undergo an Aids test as she was stabbed several
times; and
(2) calls upon the Minister for Safety and Security and the MEC for Police Services in the Western Cape urgently to investigate the crime situation in Table View and to ascertain whether the Table View Police Station is adequately staffed and has all the other resources to address the problem of the ever-increasing crime in the area.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONGRATULATIONS TO PROTEAS CRICKET TEAM
(Draft Resolution)
Mr N M RAJU: Chair, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) welcomes the return tomorrow of our national cricket team, the Proteas, who have just completed their three-month tour of England;
(2) notes that the tour ended in a drawn series between the two great cricketing nations, each having won two matches and having drawn one;
(3) congratulates the team under new Captain Graeme Smith for their splendid performances on and off the field;
(4) congratulates -
(a) especially Captain Smith, who astounded the cricketing world not
only with his top-class batting in achieving two double-
centuries, but by the almost precocious manner in which he
displayed his captaincy prowess;
(b) "Fast Poison" Makhaya Ntini for his ten-wicket haul at the
hallowed grounds of Lords, the home of world cricket; and
(c) he effervescent Shaun Pollock, the previous SA Captain, who
established himself as one of the world's top all-rounders in
international cricket by getting 300 test wickets, thereby
joining his illustrious uncle Graeme Pollock and father Peter
Pollock, both former Springboks, on the honours list of cricket
fame; and
(5) notes that the Proteas have redeemed themselves from the World Cup debacle and have brought back tears of joy to the faces of beleagured SA sports lovers.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
DEATH OF BRIAN STEWART, LONGEST-SERVING PARLIAMENTARY JOURNALIST
(Draft Resolution)
Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:
Dat die Raad -
(1) kennis neem -
(a) van die afsterwe vanoggend van die langsdienende parlementêre
joernalis;
(b) dat hy die joernalis in die persgallery was wat in al die
parlemente van die land gedien het;
(c) dat hy teenwoordig was toe dr Verwoerd se sluipmoordenaar
toegeslaan het en ook 'n goeie verhouding met hoofman Albert
Luthuli, die eerste Nobel Vredespryswenner van Suid-Afrika,
gehad het; en
(d) dat hy tot met sy afsterwe verbonde was aan die Citizen, maar
vroeër aan verskeie ander dagblaaie soos die Cape Argus; en
(2) sy meegevoel teenoor die naasbestaandes betoon en sy dank betuig vir die werk wat Brian Stewart oor die jare gedoen het om mense op die hoogte te hou met wat hier gebeur. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)
[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes -
(a) the death this morning of the longest serving parliamentary
journalist;
(b) that he was the journalist in the press gallery who had served
in all of the country's parliaments;
(c) that he was present when Dr Verwoerd's assassin struck and had
also had a good relationship with Chief Albert Luthuli, South
Africa's first Nobel Peace Prize winner; and
(d) that until the time of his death he had been associated with the
Citizen, but before that with various other daily newspapers
such as the Cape Argus; and
(2) expresses its sympathy with the next of kin and its gratitude for the work that Brian Stuart performed over the years in keeping the public up to date with what takes place here.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONGRATULATIONS TO UNDER-12 SOCCER TEAM - THE TSETSE FLIES
(Draft Resolution)
Rev M CHABAKU: Chair, I wish to move this motion without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with great pride that -
(a) our under-12 soccer team named Tsetse Flies are piling up wins
and popularity in France in the Danone Nations Cup; and
(b) this team beat Portugal 2-1 and the USA 5-0 and finally crushed
the favoured Dutch team with a whopping 12-0 score;
(2) takes special pride in the outstanding dribbling of Kamohelo Mokotjo and Zinedine Zidane, who now dominate the tournament billboards;
(3) applauds our young ones and urges them to keep on flying, to keep on being Tsetse Flies; and
(4) thanks God for their making us proudly South African.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SENQU MUNICIPALITY COUNCILLORS IN CAR ACCIDENT IN KHAHLAMBA, EASTERN CAPE
(Draft Resolution)
Nksz P C P MAJODINA: Sihlalo, ndenza isindululo ngaphandle kwesaziso:
Ukuba Ibhunga Lamaphondo- (1) livakalise ilizwi lovelwano kumasipala wase Senqu malunga nengozi yemoto eyenzeke kwingingqi yase Khahlamba eMpuma Koloni;
(2) lazi ukuba le moto yavutha amadangatya yayilayishe ooCeba bakamasipala;
(3) iphinde yazi ukuba uCeba Nombeko Monoadibi watsha kangangokuba kwanyanzeleka ukuba anqunyulwe umlenze;
(4) limnqwenelela ukuba aphile ngokukhawuleza kwisibhedlele sase Dora Nginza eMpuma Koloni. (Translation of isiXhosa draft resolution follows.)
[Ms P C P MAJODINA: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) conveys its deepest sympathy to the municipality of Senqu with regard to a car accident that happened in the area of Khahlamba in the Eastern Cape; (2) notes that the car, which was transporting councillors of the municipality, went up in flames;
(3) further notes that Councillor Nombeko Monoadibi was burnt in such a way that her leg had to be amputated; and
(4) wishes her a speedy recovery in Dora Nginza Hospital in Port Elizabeth.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
FREEDOM PARK: AN EVOLUTION FROM CREATION, OCCUPATION AND COLONISATION TO LIBERATION, RECONCILIATION, TRANSFORMATION AND DEVELOPMENT
(Subject for Discussion)
Mr D M KGWARE: Deputy Chair, Deputy President and hon colleagues, as we are approaching the celebration of our Heritage day on 24 September, we would like to put a little bit of focus on the debate around Freedom Park.
The debate before this august House with its remnants of colonial trappings is a stark reminder of the extent to which apartheid colonial cultural domination still persists in our country. One of the consequences of colonialism and apartheid was the erasure and marginalisation of cultural and intellectual contributions of non-colonial systems.
Over centuries of cultural deprivation and oppression we are, after almost 10 years of freedom, able to ensure that we move closer towards the stated goal of the Freedom Charter that the doors of learning and culture shall be open for all. This situation has to be corrected by providing all our citizens with access to the arts, museums and symbols in order to have a common cultural heritage and consciousness. In this context we will have to ensure that every South African takes full advantage of and is exposed to the projects Government has started.
One such symbol and project is Freedom Park, situated on a koppie on the outskirts of Pretoria. It will trace our history and ensure that it is recorded from its very beginnings and reflects the contribution of heroism, uprisings, setbacks, common human experiences and that at the heart of each conception is a noble human condition of spiritual fulfilment derived from the willingness to cleanse and heal. Moreover, it appeals to the hearts and minds of South Africans to rededicate themselves to the celebration of our diversity on African soil. In this regard we have had contributions to and requests for participation in the activities of Freedom Park by various commissions from friend and foe alike dating back to the apartheid era.
Yes, in order to achieve its objectives, wide and exhaustive consultation took place between the Freedom Park Trust and faith-based organisations, special interest groups and cultural bodies to ensure that the physical manifestation of Freedom Park represents the wide cultural diversity of South Africa. Workshops have been held with traditional healers, the youth and women’s organisations. The cleansing, healing and symbolic reparation ceremonies have introduced a shift from a philosophical discussion to both consultation processes and practical ways of creating the context for the emergence of Freedom Park.
In this regard the role of provinces would be critical since it will be conducting cleansing and healing ceremonies, symbolic reparation ceremonies, participation in the activities in the Garden of Remembrance, providing inputs for the memorial at Freedom Park and to initiate similar activities in the provinces. This input will include the sending of plants, soil and boulders to the Freedom Park as a manifestation of people who have fallen during the seven eras of conflict during our country’s history.
Moreover, there has been a shift from philosophical discussions about indigenous knowledge systems to it’s actual implementation. Moreover, African myth, culture and cosmology will be interpreted into form in the demarcation of the site and in the construction of the precinct.
As the ANC, we believe that the new South African order, antenatal labour pains and all, needs to redefine. We should recreate the conditions that we embrace, namely, reconciliation, transformation and development. In this respect, Freedom Park has claimed its place on the national agenda and in the hearts and minds of the people. As we are gathered here the Department of Arts and Culture continues to work hard at deepening awareness of this project.
In conclusion, Chairperson, Freedom Park is an essential element in our continuous struggle for the assertion of our dignity and the reinforcement of the confidence to free ourselves from the psyche of colonialisation. It will also mean that we take our rightful place on the continent and amongst other people. As a nation we must continue to strive to arrive at a situation where no South African is marginalised or irrelevant. I thank you. [Applause.] Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, baie dankie. Mense is meer as net politieke wesens. Daarom gaan die beoogde Vryheidspark in Salvokop in die suidweste van Pretoria ‘n baie breër konsep van vryheid as bloot politieke vryheid vier. En dit is wat president Mbeki gesê het by die opening van die terrein van die beoogde monument.
Byna 10 jaar nadat Suid-Afrika sy vryheid gekry het, is daar nog nie ‘n monument wat dit gedenk nie. Selfs die Parlement het nog nie ‘n finale besluit geneem oor die standbeeld van die wêreldikoon, Nelson Mandela, hier by die Parlement nie. Dat dit gedoen moet word, is baie belangrik omdat dit sê: Ons bestaan.
Vryheidspark gaan oor alle Suid-Afrikaners se sigbaarheid. Ander lande het egter net die verhaal van hulle politieke vryheid vertel. In die Vryheidspark moet ook ander vryhede gevier word. Dit is duidelik dat swartmense in Suid-Afrika wegbeweeg van ‘n klem op “liberation” na ‘n klem op “celebration” en dit is net so duidelik dat die wit gemeenskap besig is om weg te beweeg van ‘n gevoel van magteloosheid na ‘n gevoel van behoort.
Die groeiende begrip vir Afrikaners se vryheidstryd is duidelik en daarom sal daar in die Vryheidspark ook ruimte wees vir die herdenking daarvan. Boerehelde soos generaal Louis Botha en apartheidstryders soos mnr Chris Hani gaan hulle binnekort langs mekaar op ‘n gedenkteken bevind. Wie sou dit in die verlede ooit kon dink?
Die beplande Vryheidspark in Pretoria sluit alle vryheidsvegters in. Ons beskou die oorlog as ‘n Afrika-oorlog teen kolonialisme. “Die Boere wat in die Anglo-Boereoorlog geveg het, was almal vryheidsvegters”, het dr Wally Serote gesê en hy gaan verder: ``Ons kan nie anders as om die Boerehelde saam met al die ander vryheidsvegters te vereer nie.’’ Ons is almal Suid- Afrikaners met dieselfde toekoms en ons moet mekaar gedurig hieraan herinner.
Die hoofdoel van Vryheidspark is om ‘n nuwe, gedeelde patriotisme te kweek. ‘n Versameling gedenkrotse van Suid-Afrika se nege provinsies gaan in die beplande Vryheidspark in Pretoria hulde bring aan talle Suid-Afrikaanse vryheidsvegters. Dié gedenkrotse wat dapperheid, opoffering, menslike lyding en verlies sal uitbeeld, sal bo-op Salvokop in die Tuin van Herinnering wees. Die tuin is deel van die eerste fase van die park. Dit moet gereed wees vir die tiende herdenking van die demokrasie van die land volgende jaar. Die rotsversameling sal die laaste simboliese rusplek wees vir almal wat hulle lewens opgeoffer het vir die bevrydende grondwet wat die land nou het. Die park sal verder ‘n monument, museum, gedenktuin en inheemse plante, ‘n amphiteater, kommersiële geriewe soos ‘n konferensiesentrum, ‘n teater vir die uitvoerende kunste, spesialisboekwinkel en aandenkingswinkels bevat. Dit sal Suid-Afrika se verhaal vertel.
Die vraag waarom simbole, monumente en herdenkingsvoorwerpe nodig is, lewer een antwoord op: Om mense te laat onthou, te laat onthou van die onregte van die verlede en die veranderings wat op maatskaplike en politieke gebied plaasgevind het en om hulde te bring aan helde. Dié soort simbole is ook nóú verbind met die identiteit van ‘n groep mense en hoe hulle hul in ‘n nuwe situasie herdefinieer.
Dit is egter interessant dat in lande waar daar politieke en maatskaplike veranderinge plaasvind daar groter klem is op die oprigting van monumente as in lande wat politiek meer stabiel is. ‘n Nuwe politieke regime volg die praktyk om beelde van voormalige leiers te verwyder. In Rusland is byna alle beelde van Stalin vernietig. Maar dit is nie gewens nie omdat ‘n deel van die kultuur en erfenisskat van die land sodoende vernietig word. Die ANC-regering behoort dit duidelik te maak - en het by geleentheid dit al gedoen - dat monumente, met die uitsondering van werklike aanstootlike voorbeelde, nie voor die voet vernietig sal word nie, maar dat ‘n bewaringsbeleid eerder gevolg sal word en dat daar bygevoeg word eerder as dat daar verwyder word. Dít lei tot nasiebou en die vestiging van ‘n gemeenskaplike struktuur. Nuwe erfenisstrukture word dikwels na-aan bestaandes opgerig en so sal Vryheidspark op Salvokop in Pretoria naby die Voortrekkermonument ingerig word.
Wêreldwyd is nuwe, komplekse nasionale simbole in multikulturele samelewings saamgestel. Die ANC-vlagkleure, ook Afrika-bevrydingskleure, is byna soos ‘n pyl in die ou driekleur ingevoeg - hoewel vlagontwerpe eenvoudig behoort te wees. Die tradisies van twee volksliedere en vier tale is in die volkslied verenig. In albei gevalle was die ontwerpe dus lomp, maar hulle is dadelik wyd aanvaar omdat die bevolking hulle met die nuwe kenmerke kon identifiseer. En dít is ook wat beoog word met hierdie park. ‘n Reeks tradisies is in die stad, Pretoria saamgevoeg waarvan die trekker, Pretorius en die Boer, Kruger slegs ‘n gedeelte verteenwoordig. Verskeie ANC-leiers het al hulle waardering vir die stryd om vryheid en teen imperialisme uitgespreek. Die Vryheidspark gaan dus heel gepas naas die Voortrekkermonument gehuisves word wat ook negatiewe, gepolariseerde simbole na die positiewe kan omswaai.
Dekades lank is Pretoria internasionaal gebruik om na die apartheid regime te verwys. Dit was ook die gruwelike toneel van die Kerkstraatbom. Nóú word wêreldleiers met swier in die hoofstad ontvang. Terwyl vername politici die Springboksimbool in 1995 oorlogsugtig aangepak het, het Madiba konkrete gestalte aan die simbole van ‘n reënboognasie gegee en in ‘n Springboktrui die wêreldbeker help ontvang.
Simbole is setels van emosie, waardes en kosbare tradisies. As gevestigde simbole uitgegooi word om mag bloot ter wille van mag te vertoon, het dit uiters gevaarlike implikasies vir enige nasionale versoeningsproses, maar wanneer dit geakkommodeer word, het dit magiese krag. Dít is wat die Vryheidspark ten doel het.
Maar waar is die vroue? In die oprigting van erfenisstrukture, word daar in die algemeen bittermin aandag gegee aan vroue. Behalwe die Vrouemonument in Bloemfontein en die eenvoudige maalklip wat die protesoptog van vroue oor die dompasstelsel in die jare vygtig na die Uniegebou verteenwoordig, is daar nie veel bewyse dat vroue se rol in Suid-Afrika gedenk word nie en dr Serote en die skeppers van die Vryheidspark sal hieraan baie ernstig aandag moet gee.
Die Vryheidspark, ten slotte, is ‘n mylpaal vir almal wat in Suid-Afrika leef en ook vir Suid-Afrika gesterf het; ‘n mylpaal wat ons sal herinner aan die verkeerd van die verlede, maar ook sal inspireer om te bou op die suksesse van ons almal se voorvaders. Motho ke motho ka batho. [‘n Mens is ‘n mens deur ander mense.] [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, thank you very much. People are more than just political beings. Therefore the intended Freedom Park at Salvokop to the south-west of Pretoria will celebrate a much broader concept of freedom than mere political freedom. And that is what President Mbeki said at the opening of the area of the envisaged monument.
Almost 10 years after South Africa was liberated there is still no monument to commemorate this event. Even Parliament has not yet taken a final decision about the statue of the world icon, Nelson Mandela, here at Parliament. That it has to be done, is very important because it states: We exist.
Freedom Park is about the visibility of all South Africans. Other countries, however, have merely told the story of their political freedom. In this Freedom Park other liberties must also be celebrated. It is evident that black people in South Africa are moving away from a focus on liberation to a focus on celebration and it is just as evident that the white community is moving away from a feeling of powerlessness to a feeling of belonging.
The growing understanding for the struggle for liberation of Afrikaners is clear and therefore its commemoration will also be accommodated in Freedom Park. Boer heroes like General Louis Botha and fighters against apartheid like Mr Chris Hani will soon find themselves next to one another on a memorial. Who would ever have thought that in the past?
The planned Freedom Park in Pretoria includes all freedom fighters. We regard the war as an African war against colonialism. Dr Wally Serote said that the Boers who fought in the Anglo Boer war were all liberation fighters and he continues: ``We cannot but honour the Boer heroes along with all the other liberation fighters.’’ We are all South Africans with the same future and we must constantly remind each other of this.
The primary purpose of Freedom Park is to cultivate a new, shared patriotism. A collection of commemorative rocks from South Africa’s nine provinces will pay homage to the numerous South African liberation fighters in the planned Freedom Park in Pretoria. These commemorative rocks, depicting valour, sacrifice, human suffering and loss, will appear on top of Salvokop in the Garden of Remembrance. The garden is part of the first phase of the park. It has to be ready for the tenth anniversary of the democracy of the country next year. The collection of rocks will be the symbolic last resting place of all those whom had sacrificed their lives for the liberating Constitution that this country now enjoys. The park will also have a monument, museum, commemorative garden and indigenous plants, an amphitheatre, commercial facilities like a conference centre, a theatre for the performing arts, speciality bookshop and souvenir shop. It will tell the story of South Africa.
The question why symbols, monuments and commemorative objects are necessary has one answer. It is to remind people, to remind them of the injustices of the past and the changes that came about in the social and political areas and to pay homage to heroes. These types of symbols are closely connected to the identity of a group of people and how they redefine themselves in a new situation.
It is interesting, however, that in countries where political and social changes occur, there is greater emphasis on the erection of monuments than in more politically stable countries. A new political regime follows the practice of removing images of former leaders. In Russia nearly all the statues of Stalin have been destroyed. This is undesirable, however, because in that way a part of the culture and heritage of a country is destroyed. The ANC Government should make this clear, and has on occasion already done so, that monuments, with the exception of really repulsive examples, will not be destroyed indiscriminately; but that a policy of preservation will instead be followed and that additions should be made rather than removing anything. This is what will lead to nation-building and the establishment of a communal structure. New heritage structures are often erected close to existing ones and so too Freedom Park on Salvokop in Pretoria will be established close to the Voortrekker Monument.
Throughout the world, new national symbols in multicultural societies have a complex composition. The colours of the ANC flag, also the liberation colours of Africa, have been introduced like an arrow in the old tricolour
- although flag designs should be simple. The tradition of two national anthems and four languages have been combined in the national anthem. In both instances the designs were unwieldy, but they were immediately accepted because the nation could identify with the new features. And this is also what is envisaged with this park. A range of traditions appear in the city, Pretoria of which the trekker, Pretorius, and the Boer, Kruger, represent only a segment. Various ANC leaders have expressed their appreciation for the struggle for liberation and against imperialism. The Freedom Park will thus quite fitting be situated close to the Voortrekker Monument and that will positively transform negative, polarised symbols.
For decades Pretoria was used internationally as a reference to the apartheid regime. It was also the gruesome scene of the Church Street bombing. Now world leaders are elegantly welcomed in the capital. While prominent politicians vigorously attacked the Springbok symbol in 1995, Madiba gave concrete essence to the symbols of the rainbow nation and was on hand to receive the world cup wearing a Springbok jersey.
Symbols are seats of emotion, values and precious traditions. When established symbols are thrown out merely to exhibit power for its own sake, it has extremely dangerous implications for any national reconciliation process; but when they are accommodated, it has magical powers. This is what is intended with Freedom Park.
But where are the women? In the erection of heritage structures, very little attention is given to women in general. Except for the Vrouemonument in Bloemfontein and the simple millstone that represents the march to the Union buildings by women against the dompas system during the fifties, there is not much evidence that the role of women in South Africa is commemorated and Dr Serote and the creators of Freedom Park will have to pay a serious attention to this.
Freedom Park, in conclusion, is a milestone for all who live in South Africa and those who died for South Africa; a milestone that will remind us of the wrongs of the past, but will also inspire us to build on the successes of all our ancestors. Motho ke motho ka botho. [One is human because of other humans.] [Applause.]]
Mr K D S DURR: Madam Chairperson, I don’t want to repeat the arguments raised by my hon colleagues. I think I agree with much of what they have said. Our feeling in the ACDP is that Freedom Park is a monument or theme park that should, however, be raised by private subscription and not public funds, though the state may contribute.
They say that history is written by the victors. The author, of course, is very often taken on revision later, if it’s not accurately written. But the author of Freedom Park, it seems to me, will be the ANC and that is substantiated by the speech by my hon friend, Mr Kgware.
However, a nation like ours need not be so shortsighted. We need to approach history with understanding and humility. We must guard against triumphalism, particularly when our democracy is still so young and untested. We must also be careful not to elevate aberrations of history to the national norm or incidents to the status of national characteristics. We have a penchant for this in South Africa. We’ve seen it recently with a young rugby player.
We must be careful not to elevate our aberrations of history to the national norm. Thus, any monument or exhibition will be boring, short-lived and not credible if it is not accurate and true.
We need, however, to accentuate what is positive, noble and good in our history, and give credit where credit is due. And we have so much to be proud of. We need to vocalise our strengths, not our weaknesses; our hopes, not our fears. We are a united nation; let us sound like one; let us look like one. This will help us rediscover each other with a new pride and a new sense of nationhood.
We need to respect each other’s fears and aspirations as well as our common history. Former President De Klerk and former President Mandela gave us the lead. Let us focus on common goals, not on each other.
You see, the more reconciled we are and the more reconciled we sound, the more investors and visitors will have confidence in our country. The financial and business communities are sensitive to these signals. I know of no successful country, no successful company and no successful organisation that constantly harps upon its weaknesses.
Investors and visitors will find it attractive when we focus upon our strengths and assets. When we do those things and focus upon those things which unite us, then South Africa looks like a completely different proposition for inward and direct investment - a confident South Africa not constantly put off balance. When we go on exhibition, let us recognise the values that unite us and respect the religious mores and values of all South Africans in the way we approach things.
Finally, Madam Chair, may I also say, and I say this from my heart, let us in South Africa live victoriously and not as victims. We are inclined to see ourselves as victims of history. We are not. We are products of history. We are all that. We are products of our family, of our parenthood, but we can live victoriously.
We have so much to be grateful for. We have so many wonderful assets. We have done so many great things and we can do so many more great things in the future. But you cannot do that if you constantly see yourself as a victim. You have to live victoriously. So let this new monument be a monument to reconciliation and a monument to the further development of this wonderful country of ours. [Applause.]
Mr N M RAJU: Hon Chair and hon colleagues, at the best of times it is never easy to interpret the intentions or expectations of a particular people, culture or civilisation. But when South Africans across the colour, ethnic, cultural and political spectrum paused at the top of the mountain, after having walked the long walk to freedom, they heaved a collective sigh of relief and unbridled joy that the journey was complete.
At long last the light at the end of the tunnel has materialised. The twinkling stars sparkle with a new intensity. They are almost touchable. The South African nation trembles with delight.
The idea or concept of Freedom Park crystallises as a heritage site to bring together all the strands of the nation’s diversity so that the nation, South Africa, triumphant in it’s new nationhood, would commemorate, remember, salute and honour all those who journeyed before us to arrive at this new destination, so pregnant with the future, so promising and so different from a fractured, fragmented and forgettable past.
But we dare not lapse into a false sense of euphoria without casting a longing, lingering look back into the mists of time, genuflecting at the feet of our forefathers and mothers whose myriads of sacrifices and foresight have surely been responsible for bringing us all together to this epochal moment in our history. We continue on our journey and pray for spiritual guidance and inspiration so that we taste the nectar of true freedom with a deep and abiding gratitude to our ancestors.
In a speech delivered on Youth Day, 16 June 2002, Mr Mongane Wally Serote, executive chairman of the Freedom Park Trust, uttered these profound words, and I quote:
Freedom Park will be a South African monument, going back three, four billion years when the first forms of life emerged on this earth, in the soil of this land. It will be a monument which examines the first emergence of human life ever in our country. It will speak to the finds which indicate that the first forms of modern agriculture and industry were thought out and created here in this land.
Freedom Park is envisaged to portray, through narration in its museum, the story of human development. It will portray the indomitable struggle, conducted in the face of overwhelming odds, of how triumphal peace was forged from a volatile and seemingly catastrophic history, of how good triumphed over evil in the inevitable culmination of the first democratic elections in April 1994.
No one group of people must dare claim monopoly of Freedom Park. Freedom Park must not be contaminated by claims from exclusive groups interested in advancing narrow and parochial interests. Freedom Park must reflect the sheer human will and innate conviction of all people of South Africa towards creating what is sometimes mistakenly considered in some quarters as a miracle, the day that South Africans of all shades of political opinion stood in long queues in the face of sometimes unfriendly elements to cast their votes on that historic day, 27 April 1994.
The mission of Freedom Park is to provide a pioneering and empowering heritage destination that challenges visitors to reflect upon our past, improve our present and build on our future as a united nation. A one-stop heritage precinct, Freedom Park shall strive to accommodate and chronicle all of humanity’s experiences. It will be an international icon for humanity and freedom and serve to inspire people all over the world to rediscover their humanity.
Freedom Park will be central to the unfolding of humanity’s experiences and symbols into a single coherent epic of the struggle of humanity in South Africa, the struggle for survival, for land and resources, and how they shaped the economic, political, cultural and historic landscape of our country.
It is envisaged, too, that Freedom Park will be a veritable garden of indigenous South African flora and fauna. In the midst of this verdant environment will be erected a monument for spiritual meditation and spiritual gratitude in silent salute to the pathfinders and the storm troopers who sacrificed their lives in the cause for everlasting peace and interracial harmony in South Africa for all its people.
We would be failing posterity if we did not seize the opportunity to ensure that Freedom Park presents a true history of all its people. Freedom Park must indeed enjoy a new pride of place both nationally and internationally in encapsulating the new integrity that is being forged by all South Africans.
I commenced my speech by stating that the South African nation had reached the mountain top after its long walk to freedom. But, my friends, the journey does not end on the mountain top: The journey continues. The plains lie ahead. With the liberation we now don the mantle of reconciliation. The vestiges of racism and suspicion and innate prejudices must be cleansed from our bosom. We must all evince a readiness to do just that. Freedom Park must stand as a sentinel against such negative and destructive traits in our psychological and attitudinal make-up.
The journey continues. Transformation in our society is an absolute imperative. Without transformation, development is stillborn. Let us clearly understand our specific roles in the journey ahead, across the plains. Let us embrace our fellow men and women and walk together today, tomorrow, forever. [Applause.]
Ms N P KHUNOU: Chairperson and hon members, South Africans lived in an oppressive and difficult state. Africans, in particular, who are bona fide people of this country suffered more. We have been brought up in an environment in which we had to strive hard for survival under difficult conditions. Our land and resources have a great impact on the social, economic, political, cultural and historical landscape of our country.
Afrika Borwa e na le hisetori e e humileng tota. Re tlhoka go bua ka ga yona ka dinako tsotlhe. Mafatshe otlhe a batla go tla kwano go tla go ithuta mo go rona gore re kgonne jang go tsaya tse e neng e le tsa rona kwa ntle ga ntwa. Modimo yo o batlang kagiso ka dinako tshotlhe o itumelela tseo. MaAfrika a ipontshitse gore ga ba na tiisetse fela. Re tletse botho le go itshwarelana ka thata. Re batho ba lerato. A re ikgantsheng ka seo. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)
[South Africa has a very rich history. We need to talk about it all the time. All countries want to come here to learn from us how we managed to take what belonged to us without a fight. God, who wants peace at all times, is happy about this. Africans have shown that they not only have perseverance, we are also full of humanity and forgiveness. We are caring people. Let us be proud of that.]
The Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s main objective was to bring issues forward, learn to forgive and forget the past imbalances, and to deal with the falling and dying of our heroes and heroines. This is as difficult as it looks and sounds - the process has been difficult and stressful. We need to try to heal the wounds of the past. It will take a long time, but eventually we will win. We need a place where we can all go to heal our bodies, minds and souls - all South Africans - not only ANC members like colleagues have said.
In the beginning, God created man in the mental and moral likeness of Him, with the ability to reason and exercise free will and to choose right from wrong. God’s purpose in creating man was to have a perfect race of men living harmoniously with the rest of His creation in an Edenic paradise. Contrary to the evolution theory of man reaching an ever higher estate from an original low estate, the Bible promises a time of restoration of man.
A park in Greek is termed paradeisos, and in English it is paradise. This is the place where God planned that all mankind should go. It is a perfect place for relaxation; a place where you could go to be grounded with yourself; to rebuild Africa; to heal the body, mind and soul; a place in harmony with the environment which will be transferred to yourself for the process of healing; a place to get in touch with nature and the ancestors; a place of rebirth for us as Africans; the nature of an Edenic paradise. To conquer oneself is a greater victory than to conquer thousands in a battle.
Freedom Park is a one-stop heritage precinct established within the parameters set by the principles of Government’s national legacy projects. It began in April 2001. It was founded to address gaps, distortions and biases, and to provide new perspectives on South Africa’s heritage. It is a broad presentation of the entire South African history, challenging traditional narratives through the reinterpretation of previous heritage sites in the country.
The park is also aimed at acknowledging the country’s role in the genesis of early life forms and later at harmonising some of that which eventually evolved into the modern Homo sapiens, tracing evidence of humanity’s evolution found in South Africa.
Let us celebrate Heritage Day with one objective, namely, to heal ourselves from the past and be committed to pushing back the frontiers of poverty. Amandla! [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON LABOUR AND PUBLIC
ENTERPRISES - STUDY TOUR TO GERMANY
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I now call the hon Nkuna, the chairperson of the select committee.
Mrs C NKUNA: Thank you. Hon Chairperson, hon members, as correctly stated by President Mbeki in January 2003’s statement, our movement must continue to meet its obligations to the rest of the world, in keeping with its international conventions and traditions.
Our visit to Germany was in line with the aforesaid statement and was a situation of good standing between the two countries. The system of government in Germany is somewhat similar to ours. They have a bicameral system, namely the Bundestag and the Bundesrat. The Bundestag is the principal legislative chamber and is made up of members who are federal officials directly elected by the public. Most of the legislative work in the Bundestag is the product of standing committees, as is the case in our National Assembly.
The Bundesrat, the second legislative chamber, is the federal body in which a certain number of Länder governments, similar to our provinces, are directly represented - just like our system of Government. The Bundesrat typically schedules plenary sessions for the purpose of voting on legislation prepared in the committees. The legislative authority of the Bundesrat is subordinate to that of the Bundestag, while the upper House, be that as it may, plays a vital legislative role.
It was gratifying to learn and note that the programmes we are currently initiating in our communications industry are already far advanced in Germany, with positive spin-offs in job creation, gender sensitivity, skills empowerment and overall privatisation in order to effectively assist poverty alleviation in our terms.
Deutsche Telekom AG offers integrated solutions of mobile communications, Internet, fixed-line networks and other systems, with personnel representation in 65 countries on all six continents. This company has traineeship programmes increasing annually and also participates in many national and international initiatives to bring lasting change. It also has its own public-private partnership programmes to alleviate and speed up transformation in Germany.
We also learned with admiration about the advanced privatisation process of posts and telecommunications, which culminated in the passing of an Act in 1996 which regulated the following: licensing, where the regulatory authority undertakes control duties; universal service, where the dominant provider has to serve at affordable prices; price control, where rates must be approved by the regulatory authority; and interconnection and all interception, where telecommunications companies must allow switched connections to competitors’ networks and give security agencies information free of charge.
On the sensitive issue of privatisation in our country, we are delighted to learn, just as we are putting more emphasis in our country on united action to push back the frontiers of poverty, that in Germany they have seven objectives that guide them towards economic prosperity, namely, a high level of employment; sustained opportunities for the German economy to grow and compete with other economies; social security; the promotion of new technologies and innovations to maintain the economy’s competitiveness, linking economic and ecological goals; intensifying the worldwide division of labour; a free system of world trade; and economic assistance to Germany’s new state.
The above should allay the fears of those who are sceptical of the privatisation process currently being initiated and undertaken in our country. It is beyond doubt that such moves will assist in driving our economy towards sustainable growth and development.
Cognisance should be taken of the fact that in Germany too, their privatisation activities were largely driven by factors such as budgetary constraints, a need to attract investment, a general trend towards reducing the role of the state in the economy, and a combination of technological change, liberalisation and globalisation of products and financial markets. It was also heartwarming to note and learn in the privatisation and labour- market process in Germany, in spite of the general norm that privatisation causes a reduction in the number of employees, that in many state-owned enterprises there was a tendency by the privatised companies, including their affiliated companies, to employ more people.
It was also pleasing to learn of the control measures put in place to level the playing field in as far as the former monopoly operators of the postal and telecommunications markets are concerned, that is Deutsche Post AG and Deutsche Telekom AG. Such measures led to the establishment of the registration TP, which was tasked with promoting the development of the postal and telecommunications markets through liberalisation and deregulation. This body was equipped with procedures and instruments to enforce the regulatory aims, inclusive of information and investigative rights and a set of sanctions.
I ntiyiso leswaku munhu u dyondza a za a khalabya kumbe a khegula. Riendzo ra hina ro ya eGermany a ri ri ro pfula mahlo. Hi ni ntshembho wa leswaku hi dyondzile eka vamakwerhu leswi swi nga ta pfuna Afrika na Afrika-Dzonga wa hina, hi ku vanga mintirho no lwa ni vusweti. Hi tsakisiwile hi ku vona maendlele ya minongonoko ya Huvo yo Endla milawu loko hina laha NCOP ho landzelela maendlele ya vona, xiyenge xin’wana xa ntirho wa hina xi nga vevuka. Vuxaka bya hina na Germany hi ku yisa emahlweni ntwanano wa hina na lomu ka tibazari leti pfunaka vana va hina eswikolweni swi lava ku hlayisiwa. Ndzawulo ya Mabindzu na Vumaki yi fanela ku hlayisa no kondletela vuxaka lebyi, inkomu. [Phokotela.] (Translation of Xitsonga paragraph follows.)
[It is true that one learns until one is old. Our journey to Germany was an eye-opener. I believe that we learned things from our brothers and sisters that will help Africa and our South Africa through the creation of employment and fighting poverty. We were delighted to see the proceedings of their national assembly. If we from the NCOP could follow their proceedings, a part of our job will be easier. Our relations with Germany and the agreement about provision for bursaries that will help keep our children at school must be sustained. The Department of Trade and Industry needs to protect and encourage this relationship. Thank you. [Applause.]]
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, this is a rather unique situation as far as I remember. Committees have sometimes filed reports to the House on their trips overseas, but I don’t remember in the past any committee actually debating their trips. In a sense this has a very positive aspect to it. The first is that it enhances accountability. We certainly didn’t go to Germany to come back here to tell everyone in the House what a nice holiday we had. We worked very hard, and we saw and learned a lot of things.
There are a number of parallels between Germany as a society and South Africa as a society. We both have recently gone through major upheavals and we both are, in a sense, societies in transition. In that sense we have many parallels. In Germany we saw how the Eastern philosophy met the Western philosophy. We saw the building of a new united nation, and in South Africa we have a parallel situation.
Privatisation is certainly one of the key issues that we saw, and the hon committee chairperson has certainly given us a comprehensive outline of what we learned about that. It is quite clear that we have similar concerns in the process of privatisation.
We are all concerned by the threat of job losses. There are going to be, and we all accept, job losses in privatisation, but we saw how the German parastatals catered for it - how they negotiated with the unions in good faith and how the unions negotiated with them in good faith. We also saw how they resolved to reach situations in which they could compromise and ameliorate the effect of the job losses by creating opportunities elsewhere and finding work for those people elsewhere, while, at the same time, reaping the benefits of privatisation. Undoubtedly, from the experience in Germany we saw that there were benefits to be reaped from privatisation.
Aside from these lessons, there were sometimes even direct lessons that we learned. In Germany we spoke to the railway regulator and the company that actually runs the railways in this process of privatisation. One has seen in the news recently in our country that the railway signals are dangerous and this, in fact, has the potential to cause loss of life. There are many causes for this. Firstly, we have the scourge of cable theft; and, it seemed to us when we visited their railways, that we also have somewhat ageing systems.
Now, when I asked the Germans directly how they protect their cables, they looked at me somewhat surprised and said: ``Cables? We don’t use cables. We use digital radio links.’’ They considered this far safer, far more reliable and far more cost-effective. The reason we, in the committee, wanted to debate this is because we want to make sure that the department actually investigates these things to the benefit of our people.
Our people are losing their lives, in some instances, on the railway system. We have within our power the ability to do something about that. I am not saying that we can transport the German experience willy-nilly to what we have here, but we certainly owe it to our people to investigate this properly and to ensure - if it can be used it will save lives, it will save our country expenses and make us more competitive overseas - that the department investigates this and does so diligently and properly. Chairperson, thank you for this opportunity. [Applause.]
Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Chairperson and members, as we are on the verge of finishing 10 years of freedom in South Africa. Having successfully laid the foundation to deal with the poverty we inherited from the apartheid government, our trip to Germany was ideal in terms of empowerment for the road ahead, and that was the main objective that was achieved with the study tour to Germany.
With the aim of the tour clearly outlined in the report, it was pleasing to learn that the system of government in Germany is a bicameral system with two Houses, the Bundestag and the Bundesrat. The federal government of Germany introduces most legislation. When it does so, the Bundesrat reviews the legislation and then passes it on to the Bundestag. If a Bill originates with the Bundesrat, it is submitted to the Bundestag through the executive branch. If the Bundestag introduces a Bill, it is sent first to the Bundesrat and, if approved there, it is forwarded to the executive. There is also a joint conference committee which resolves any differences in legislation between the two legislative Chambers. Once the compromised Bill that emerges from the conference committee has been approved by a majority in both Chambers and by Cabinet, it is signed into law by the federal president and countersigned by the relevant Cabinet Minister.
The Bundesrat is similar to the NCOP in that it is the federal body in which the 16 Länder governments, similar to our provinces, are directly represented. Their respective Länder governments appoint members of the Bundesrat. Because the Bundesrat is smaller than the Bundestag it typically schedules sessions once a month for the purpose of voting on legislation, while the Bundestag conducts about 50 plenary sessions a year. The Bundesrat rarely attends committee sessions, but instead delegates such responsibilities to civil servants from its Ministries, as allowed in terms of the basic law.
It should also be noted that in their system the federal government presents all legislative initiatives first to the Bundesrat, and that the Bundestag approves all the legislation affecting policy areas for which the basic law grants provinces concurrent powers and for which the Länder must administer federal regulations.
It was also interesting to learn that Bundesrat membership is confined to voting members of a state government and that at the heart of parliamentary activity is work done by committees who have dates for plenary sessions set in advance for each calendar year. Submissions from the Bundestag arrive three weeks before the session, while committee work must be finished two weeks before the plenary session.
For the purposes of increased efficiency and service delivery, I’m of the opinion that the NCOP should look at adopting the system of the Bundesrat in Germany, in terms of which dates for plenary sessions are set far in advance annually.
We were delighted to note the way railway reforms were carried out, wherein the following measures were undertaken to transform the state-owned Bundesbahn and Reichsbahn into a market-conforming company: a strict separation of state and business tasks to ensure entrepreneurial independence and the strengthening of the company’s competitive capability; the merger of former special assets of the federal government to form the Federal Railway Property Fund; the transformation of the business part of the federal railway property into a public company acting on its own; the reorganisation and restructuring of Deutsche Bahn AG into four divisions - the track infrastructure, local passenger traffic, long-distance passenger traffic and freight traffic with their own profit and loss accounts; the opening of the rail network to outside companies; and the regionalisation of local transport.
Please note that in terms of the whole process of transforming the railways, we were informed that co-operation with other transport operators was put to much greater use in order to design services that conformed as closely as possible to the market. The railway reforms resulted in the reduction of the burden on the taxpayer and the federal budget, increased productivity, and better financial performance of the traffic divisions as restructured.
We also learnt, with interest, from the German railway operator that they use a system of signals based on digital radio - cutting the problem of cable theft - which they recommend as being safer. We were happy to note that most labour-market issues in Germany are covered in our South African restructuring framework.
The casualisation of employment was a major policy issue, that is one-year contract jobs, which need exhaustive discussion and consideration. We are not ready for that yet, taking into consideration the economy and the high rate of unemployment in our country. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I shall now put the question. The question is that the Report of Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises - Study Tour to Germany - be agreed to. The decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution. I note that all delegation heads are present in the House. We will then proceed to allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they wish to do so. Is there any province wishing to make a declaration of vote? There is none. We proceed then to voting. This will be done in the usual way - alphabetical order per province. Eastern Cape?
Ms P C P MAJODINA: Sihlalo, iMpuma Koloni iyayixhasa le ngxelo, enkosi. [Chairperson, the Eastern Cape supports this report. Thank you.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Free State?
Rev M Chabaku: Free State e ea etlatsa, ondersteun dit. [Free State supports it.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng? Ms D M RAMODIBE: Gauteng ea tlatsa. [Gauteng supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: IKwaZulu-Natal iyavumelana. [KwaZulu-Natal agrees.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Limpopo?
Mr M I MAKOELA: Limpopo ea amogela. [Limpopo supports it.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?
Ms M P THEMBA: Rena ra botlhabatsatsi ra ea go tlatsa. [We of Mpumalanga support.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Ka re letsatsi se lewile tle? [But now that the sun has gone down?] [Laughter.] Northern Cape?
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Northern Cape supports.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke wa rona. [North West supports.] [Laughter.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Western Cape?
Ms N D NTWANAMBI: INtshona Koloni iyaxhasa. [Western Cape supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: All provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted. [Applause.]
CONSIDERATION OF FIRST REPORT OF JOINT BUDGET COMMITTEE
Mr T B TAABE: Thank you very much indeed, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to be able to rise this afternoon to present to this House the first report of the Joint Budget Committee. I do so on behalf of our co-chairperson, Comrade Ralane, who could not be here this afternoon.
As hon members would know, this first report of our Joint Budget Committee was published in the ATC on 18 June this year. This report deals, in the main, with the national department’s expenditure trends from January to March of 2003 and, most importantly, with the expenditure patterns of the nine provinces for the financial year ending 2003.
In respect of national departments, we discovered as the Joint Budget Committee that expenditure trends of the departments, for instance, of Social Development, of Government Communication and Information System and of Public Enterprises fluctuated quite substantially.
Communications was left with about 54,25% of its budget unspent after 11 months of the financial year in question. In the 12th month, surprisingly, the last month of the financial year ending March 2003, the same department spent almost all its unspent funds.
Public Enterprises had also not spent 10,1% of its budget by the end of March 2003. However, we must be conscious of the fact that by and large these figures are unaudited and the possibility exists that the final outcome, in terms of the audited figures, may inevitably tell a different yet positive story once the audits have been duly completed.
The challenge remains for us, particularly in the NCOP, to ensure that we do all that is necessary for systematic and dramatic improvements to happen in the area of spending in the provinces. Limpopo - Kgoshi Mokoena - the Free State, the Western Cape, Mpumalanga and the Eastern Cape have all recorded substantial underspending.
Gauteng, the report informs us, underspent its budget marginally; whilst KZN, albeit having received the largest chunk of the budget, is not counted amongst the provinces that recorded the highest underspending.
We have not completed our work as the Joint Budget Committee. Oversight, by its very nature as hon members would know, is not an event, but rather an ongoing process, which is sometimes very protracted indeed. We have taken the view, as the Joint Budget Committee, that those departments which are required to account for their discrepancies in spending should appear before our committee during the month of October. We will be consulting with the relevant organs of state in this regard, and will, as a matter principle, take on board the relevant portfolio and select committees of Parliament.
The release of the report of the SA African Human Rights Commission should be noted by members, particularly in respect of chapter 13 on public finance. We anticipate some thoroughgoing engagement with stakeholders on this chapter pretty soon. We want to advise, when this happens, that members of this House should be able to take full advantage of this opportunity as this would sharpen their oversight duty and responsibility as elected representatives.
Having made these observations, we have taken the well-considered view that, one, we must continually build capacity into our financial management procedures in order to ensure full compliance with the Public Finance Management Act; two, that the strategic plans of the departments must be thoroughly scrutinised to ensure redress on both underspending and overspending before plans for new projects in the said departments are proceeded with; three, that formal and structured co-operation between our committee and other sector committees of Parliament has become an absolute necessity in order to permit the flow of information in respect of unusual spending by departments; and, lastly, in respect of provinces, that structured co-ordination is required between treasuries and Minmecs. The point we should make here is that whatever decisions are taken at the level of the Minmecs, they should be budgeted for adequately in the provinces.
We believe as the Joint Budget Committee that the work has only just begun. As we are a fairly new committee we hope that hon members will indeed interact with our work as it is at the heart of the oversight responsibility we continue to shoulder as elected representatives. At this point I think I should thank you, Madam Chair. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I think that before I put the question, we should congratulate the members and committees that have dealt with both Orders for having tabled reports which we could debate in the House. This should increasingly become a practice for this House and, certainly, this Parliament.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR OF: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
ALLEGATIONS ABOUT PURCHASE OF GUESTHOUSE BY CIVILIAN INTELLIGENCE SERVICES (Consideration of Report of Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence)
Order disposed of without debate.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! As there is no speakers’ list, I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be agreed to. The decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution. Is there any province wishing to make a declaration of vote in terms of Rule 71? There is no province wishing to make a declaration.
We proceed to voting. We begin with the Eastern Cape.
Ms P C P MAJODINA: IMpuma Koloni iyasekela. [The Eastern Cape supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Free State?
Rev M CHABAKU: Re kgotsofetse, re a e amohela kaofela. [We are satisfied, and we all accept it.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng?
Ms D M RAMODIBE: Gauteng e a tlatsa. [Gauteng supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Siyavumelana siyiKwaZulu-Natal. [As KwaZulu-Natal we support.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Limpopo?
Mr M I MAKOELA: Ha seketela. [We support.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?
Ms M P THEMBA: IMpumalanga iyasekela. [Mpumalanga supports.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Northern Cape?
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Northern Cape e a dumela. [Northern Cape agrees.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke ya rona. [North West supports.] [Laughter.]]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Ke gore le ka baya le theipi fela gore e nne e le buelele. [Setshego.] [It looks like you should play a tape recorder each time to speak for you. [Laughter.]] Western Cape?
Ms N D NTWANAMBI: INtshona Koloni iyahambisana. (Western Cape agrees.)
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: All provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted. [Applause.]
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The Council adjourned at 16:00. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
WEDNESDAY, 3 SEPTEMBER 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Introduction of Bills:
(1) The Minister of Home Affairs:
(i) South African Citizenship Amendment Bill [B 55 - 2003]
(National Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and
prior notice of its introduction published in Government
Gazette No 25420 of 1 September 2003.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Home
Affairs of the National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint
Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule
160, on 3 September 2003.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bill may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
within three parliamentary working days.
- Draft Bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159:
(1) The Minister of Social Development on 14 August 2003 submitted
the following Bills:
(i) Social Assistance Bill, 2003.
(ii) Children's Bill, 2003.
(iii) Older Persons Bill, 2003.
Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Social Development and the
Select Committee on Social Services.
National Council of Provinces:
- Messages from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills passed by Assembly and transmitted to Council:
(1) Bill passed by National Assembly on 3 September 2003 and
transmitted for concurrence:
(i) Armaments Corporation of South Africa, Limited Bill [B 18B
- 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75).
The Bills have been referred to the Select Committee on Security
and Constitutional Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister for Provincial and Local Government:
Reasons for the Declaration of a State of Disaster in the Ehlanzeni
District Municipality: Mpumalanga Province, in terms of section 2(4) of
the Civil Protection Act, 1977 (Act No 67 of 1977).
- The Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Afrikaans Language Museum
for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2002-2003.
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Voortekker and Ncome
Museums for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General
on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003.
(c) Report and Financial Statements of the Performing Arts Centre of
the Free State (PACOFS) for 2002-2003, including the Report of the
Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003.
(d) Report and Financial Statements of the Africa Institute of South
Africa for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General
on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003.
(e) Report and Financial Statements of the Artscape for 2002-2003,
including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial
Statements for 2002-2003.
(f) Report and Financial Statements of the Robben Island Museum for
2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 149-2003].
(g) Report and Financial Statements of the Natal Museum for 2002-
2003.
(h) Report and Financial Statements of the National Research
Foundation for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003.
(i) Report and Financial Statements of the National Arts Council for
2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2002-2003.
(j) Report and Financial Statements of the National Zoological
Gardens of South Africa for 2002-2003, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 148-
2003].
(k) Report and Financial Statements of the Freedom Park Trust for
2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2002-2003.
(l) Report and Financial Statements of the Iziko Museums of Cape
Town for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 119-2003].
(m) Report and Financial Statements of the Human Science Research
Council (HSRC) for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 60-2003].
(n) Report and Financial Statements of Business and Arts South
Africa, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the
Financial Statements for 2002-2003.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Council of Provinces:
CREDA INSERT - “ATC0903E”
THURSDAY, 4 SEPTEMBER 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Introduction of Bills:
(1) The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism:
On request of the Minister the following Bill was introduced by
the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs in the
National Council of Provinces:
(i) National Environmental Management Second Amendment Bill [B
56 - 2003] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76) [Bill and
prior notice of its introduction published in Government
Gazette No 25289 of 1 August 2003].
Introduction and referral to the Select Committee on Land and
Environmental Affairs of the National Council of Provinces, as
well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on 5 September 2003.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bill may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
within three parliamentary working days.
(2) The Minister of Social Development:
(i) Social Assistance Bill [B 57 - 2003] (National Assembly -
sec 76) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its
introduction published in Government Gazette No 25340 of 8
August 2003.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Social
Development of the National Assembly, as well as referral to the
Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint
Rule 160, on 5 September 2003.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bills may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
within three parliamentary working days.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Defence:
Report and Financial Statements of Vote No 21 - Department of Defence
for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 145-2003].
- The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:
Report and Financial Statements of the National Prosecuting Authority
for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2002-2003.
FRIDAY, 5 SEPTEMBER 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS: National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Translations of Bills submitted:
(1) The Minister of Trade and Industry:
(i) Molaotlhomo oo Akaretsang go Abela Bantsho Dithatha tsa
Merero ya Ikonomi [B 27 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75).
This is the official translation into Setswana of the Broad-Based
Black Economic Empowerment Bill [B 27 - 2003] (National Assembly -
sec 75). National Council of Provinces:
- Messages from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills passed by Assembly and transmitted to Council:
(1) Bill passed by National Assembly on 5 September 2003 and
transmitted for concurrence:
(i) National Health Bill [B 32B - 2003] (National Assembly -
sec 76).
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Social
Services of the National Council of Provinces.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Finance:
(a) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
and the Government of the Republic of Rwanda for the Avoidance of
Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of
taxes on income, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(b) Explanatory Memorandum on the Agreement between the Government
of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic
of Rwanda for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention
of Fiscal Evasion in respect of taxes on income.
(c) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
and the Government of the Republic of Botswana for the Avoidance
of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect
of taxes on income, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(d) Explanatory Memorandum on the Agreement between the Government
of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic
of Botswana for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the
Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of taxes on income.
(e) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
and the Government of the Sultanate of Oman for the Avoidance of
Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of
taxes on income, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(f) Explanatory Memorandum on the Agreement between the Government
of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the
Sultanate of Oman for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the
Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of taxes on income.
(g) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
and the Government of the Republic of Belarus for the Avoidance of
Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of
taxes on income and on capital (property), tabled in terms of
section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.
(h) Explanatory Memorandum on the Agreement between the Government
of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic
of Belarus for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention
of Fiscal Evasion in respect of taxes on income and on capital
(property).
- The Minister for Water Affairs and Forestry:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Water Research Commission
for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 116-2003].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Trans-Caledon Tunnel
Authority for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Independent
Auditors for 2002-2003.
MONDAY, 8 SEPTEMBER 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Translations of Bills submitted:
(1) The Minister of Finance:
(i) Wysigingswetsontwerp op Spesiale Pensioene [W 3 - 2003]
(National Assembly - sec 75).
This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the
Special Pensions Amendment Bill [B 3 - 2003] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
(ii) Wysigingswetsontwerp op die "Government Employees Pension
Law" [W 4 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75).
This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the
Government Employees Pension Law Amendment Bill [B 4 - 2003]
(National Assembly - sec 75).
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Finance:
(a) Multi-Annual Indicative Programme and Country Strategic Paper
between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the
European Community for 2003-2006, tabled in terms of section
231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(b) Explanatory Memorandum to the Multi-Annual Indicative Programme
and Country Strategic Paper between the Government of the Republic
of South Africa and the European Community for 2003-2006.
(c) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
and the Government of the Federal Republic of Germany concerning
Financial Cooperation - Rural Electrification, tabled in terms of
section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(d) Explanatory Memorandum to the Agreement between the Government
of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Federal
Republic of Germany concerning Financial Co-operation - Rural
Electrification.
- The Minister of Labour:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Unemployment Insurance
Fund for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 73-2003].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Compensation Fund for
2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 74-2003].
(c) Report and Financial Statements of the National Economic
Development and Labour Council for 2002-2003, including the Report
of the Independent Auditors for 2002-2003.
(d) Report and Financial Statements of the Public Sector Education
and Training Authority (PSETA) for 2002-2003, including the Report
of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003
[RP 91-2003].
TUESDAY, 9 SEPTEMBER 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism:
(1) The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 1 September 2003 in terms
of Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bill as a section
75 Bill:
(i) General Intelligence Laws Amendment Bill [B 47 - 2003]
(National Assembly - sec 75).
(2) The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 9 September 2003 in terms
of Joint Rule 160(4), classified the following Bill as a section
76 Bill:
(i) South African Social Security Agency Bill [B 51 - 2003]
(National Assembly - sec 76).
- Introduction of Bills:
(1) The Minister for Provincial and Local Government:
(i) Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Bill [B 58
- 2003] (National Assembly - sec 76) [Explanatory summary of
Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in
Government Gazette No 25437 of 4 September 2003.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on
Provincial and Local Government of the National Assembly, as well
as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on 10 September 2003.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bill may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
within three parliamentary working days.
National Council of Provinces:
- Messages from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills passed by Assembly and transmitted to Council:
(1) Bills passed by National Assembly on 9 September 2003 and
transmitted for concurrence:
(i) Petroleum Pipelines Bill [B 22B - 2003] (National Assembly
- sec 75).
(ii) Petroleum Products Amendment Bill [B 25B - 2003] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
The Bills have been referred to the Select Committee on Economic
and Foreign Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.
(iii) Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill [B 57B - 2002] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
(iv) Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Amendment
Bill [B 34B - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75).
The Bills have been referred to the Select Committee on Security
and Constitutional Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.
- The Chairperson:
The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
relevant committees as mentioned below:
(1) The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
Labour and Public Enterprises, the Select Committee on Economic
and Foreign Affairs and the Select Committee on Security and
Constitutional Affairs:
Report and Financial Statements of the Diplomacy, Intelligence,
Defence and Trade Education and Training Authority (DIDTETA) for
2002-2003, including the Report of the Independent Auditors for
2002-2003 [RP 94-2003].
(2) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Labour and Public Enterprises and the Select Committee on Economic
and Foreign Affairs:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Mining
Qualifications Authority for 2002-2003, including the Report
of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2002-
2003.
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Chemical Industries
Education and Training Authority for 2002-2003, including the
Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for
2002-2003 [RP 147-2003].
(3) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Labour and Public Enterprises and the Select Committee on Finance:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Financial and
Accounting Services Sector Education and Training Authority
(FASSET) for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 75-
2003].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Bank Sector
Education and Training Authority for 2002-2003, including the
Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for
2002-2003 [RP 84-2003].
(c) Report and Financial Statements of the Insurance Sector
Education and Training Authority for 2002-2003, including the
Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for
2002-2003 [RP 79-2003].
(4) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Labour and Public Enterprises and the Select Committee on Land and
Environmental Affairs:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Forest Industries
Education and Training Authority for 2002-2003, including the
Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for
2002-2003 [RP 78-2003].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Primary Agriculture
Education and Training Authority for 2002-2003, including the
Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for
2002-2003 [RP 109-2003].
(c) Report and Financial Statements of the Sector Education
and Training Authority for Secondary Agriculture for 2002-
2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 99-2003].
(5) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Labour and Public Enterprises and the Select Committee on Economic
and Foreign Affairs:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Clothing, Textiles,
Footwear and Leather Sector Education and Training Authority
for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 76-2003].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Food and Beverage
Manufacturing Sector Education and Training Authority for 2002-
2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 95-2003].
(c) Report and Financial Statements of the Wholesale and
Retail Sector Education and Training Authority for 2002-2003,
including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements for 2002-2003. [RP 83-2003].
(d) Report and Financial Statements of the Manufacturing,
Engineering and Related Services Sector Education and Training
Authority for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 90-
2003].
(6) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Labour and Public Enterprises:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Media, Advertising,
Publishing, Printing and Packaging Sector Education and
Training Authority (MAPPP) for 2002-2003.
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Information
Systems, Electronics and Telecommunications Technologies
Sector Education and Training Authority for 2002-2003,
including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 96-2003].
(7) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Labour and Public Enterprises and the Select Committee on Public
Services:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Transport Education
and Training Authority for 2002-2003, including the Report of
the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003
[RP 87-2003].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Construction
Education and Training Authority for 2002-2003, including the
Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for
2002-2003 [RP 85-2003].
(8) The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
Labour and Public Enterprises and the Select Committee on
Education and Recreation:
Report and Financial Statements of the Education, Training and
Development Practices Sector Education and Training Authority for
2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 121-2003].
(9) The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
Labour and Public Enterprises and the Select Committee on Social
Services:
Report and Financial Statements of the Health and Welfare Sector
Education and Training Authority for 2002-2003, including the
Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2002-
2003 [RP 88-2003].
(10) The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
Labour and Public Enterprises and the Select Committee on Local
Government and Administration:
Report and Financial Statements of the Local Government, Water and
Related Services Sector Education and Training Authority for 2002-
2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 89-2003].
(11) The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
Labour and Public Enterprises and the Select Committee on Security
and Constitutional Affairs:
Report and Financial Statements of the Police, Security, Legal,
Justice and Correctional Services Sector Education and Training
Authority for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 98-2003].
(12) The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
Labour and Public Enterprises:
Report and Financial Statements of the Services Sector Education
and Training Authority for 2002-2003, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 82-
2003].
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(a) Report of the Secretary to Parliament for 2002.
(b) Report of the Auditor-General on a Forensic Audit Investigation
into the sale of nonferrous scrap metal products at Transnet
Limited [RP 179-2003]. 2. The Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the National Library of South
Africa for 2001-2002, including the Report of the Auditor-General
on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002.
(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Spoornet State Theatre
for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Independent Auditor for
2002-2003.
- The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry:
Report and Financial Statements of Vote No 33 - Department of Water
Affairs and Forestry for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 54-2003].