TUESDAY, 12 NOVEMBER 2002 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 14:00.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

               ELECTION OF ROTATING DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON

The meeting proceeded to the election of the Rotating Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces to fill the post vacated by the Premier of the North West, Mr P S Molefe.

The Chairperson of the NCOP called for nominations.

Mr C ACKERMANN: Chairperson, it is a great honour for me, on behalf of the Western Cape, to propose Mr Marthinus Christoffel Johannes van Schalkwyk as the second Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP.

Marthinus van Schalkwyk has proved himself to be a young dynamic leader, a leader belonging to the new generation of South Africans who are deeply committed to this country, a generation that believes in building and striving for excellence, not in breaking down or in mediocrity.

He is an Afrikaner and at this moment in time, when attempts are made by the so-called ``Boerevolk al-Qaeda’’ to lead the Afrikaners to isolation, polarisation and condemnation, it is fitting that Premier Van Shalkwyk is at the forefront of leading coloured and white Afrikaner communities to join hands with our black communities and draw on each other’s expertise and experiences to fight the cancer of poverty, unemployment, Aids and crime, as well as unite under a true spirit of South Africanism based firmly on democracy and constructive dialogue. In doing so, the Afrikaners can once again play a prominent role in serving our nation.

His inspiring leadership has put minority communities on the high road of reconciliation and nation-building, dedicated to ensuring that a truly rainbow nation will be born. The Western Cape is often called the Cape of Good Hope. Our premier has brought new hope for new partnerships, pioneering the Western Cape to new heights through consensus and co- operative governance.

I am sure that the NCOP can only be enriched by his values and philosophy. Our ideals are indeed bigger than self-interest.

Chairperson, I propose Marthinus van Shalkwyk.

Ms M P THEMBA: Chairperson, I do hereby with pleasure second the nomination of Mr Marthinus van Schalkwyk as Rotating Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP.

Mr Van Schalkwyk has shown himself to be committed to the ideals of national reconciliation and nation-building. We are confident that he will serve this Council well as Rotating Deputy Chairperson. [Applause.]

The Returning Officer reported to the Chairperson that the nomination paper had been properly completed.

There being no further nominations, the Chairperson declared Mr Marthinus Christoffel Johannes van Schalkwyk duly elected as Rotating Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: On behalf of all delegates present here, I congratulate Mr Van Schalkwyk on having been elected as the rotating Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP in terms of section 64(3) of the Constitution.

Ek doen nou ‘n beroep op die lid om ‘n paar woorde te sê. [I now call on the member to say a few words.] The PREMIER OF THE WESTERN CAPE (Mr M C J Van Schalkwyk): Madam Chairperson, I would like to accept the nomination with gratitude, and also the position. The nine provinces in our country are critical pillars for democracy, but also for delivery. Our Council here, the NCOP, is one of the most important instruments for co-operative governance.

I look forward to working with you as the Chairperson, and to working with the rotating Chairperson as well as all the members of this Council. [Applause.]

Die VOORSITTER VAN DIE NRP: Baie dankie, Mnr Van Schalkwyk. [The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, Mr Van Schalkwyk.]

Provinces will make their congratulatory remarks during their response to the President’s address.

It is now my great pleasure to call on the President. I thank him for his patience.

      ADDRESS BY THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Madam Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, hon Premiers, hon members of the NCOP and Ministers, I must confess that I had my eye on the position to which the hon Marthinus van Schalkwyk has just been elected. [Laughter.] I tried to urge the Premier of the Eastern Cape, who is sitting next to me, to nominate me, but he told me it would be unconstitutional.

I thank you for affording me the opportunity once more to continue our dialogue with the NCOP. In the past two years, we have discussed such matters as the role and place of local government structures, the role and place of the institution of traditional government and the challenge of aligning this important institution to elected democratic structures.

We have also looked closely into the question of intergovernmental co- operation, and the interaction between the Government and the people, as well as the involvement of these masses of our people and their communities in the transformation of our society.

I am certain that the constant reflection on these and other matters has helped us to improve our transformation programmes as well as bring about efficiency and effectiveness in the implementation processes.

We are still seized with the matter of arriving at a common determination of the role and place of the institution of traditional leadership, and ensuring that it works in harmony and side-by-side with the elected democratic structures of Government.

Hopefully the discussions around the draft White Paper that has now been issued will help us finally resolve this matter to the satisfaction of all our people, including the traditional leaders. I am confident that as we engage this process, as all of us should, we will do so in a manner that seeks to take our country forward, driven by a common desire to improve the lives of our people, and make development a permanent feature of the lives of these very people on whose behalf we make all our pronouncements.

I therefore trust that all of us who, in various ways, are part of processes and institutions of governance in this country will work constructively and in a manner befitting our status as public representatives to ensure that we resolve this outstanding matter in our body politic so that all our people, wherever they may be, are able to participate fully in the exciting transformation processes that are changing our country for the better.

In this context, it is important that we avoid any confrontational posture, understanding that whatever needs to be resolved will be concluded through an inclusive dialogue, and not through one part threatening all others with violence. Apart from the fact that the law enforcement authorities will act vigorously to protect lives and property against anybody who decides to use force to advance his or her goals, it is time that all of us outgrow the period in our history when resorting to violence to attain political objectives resulted in the loss of thousands of innocent lives.

As we have stated in the past, the challenge facing our country and the entire Government, from national, provincial and local spheres, is the eradication of poverty, and the radical transformation of our society into a truly nonracial, nonsexist democracy that is underpinned by socioeconomic equity, justice and prosperity.

In this regard, we have put in place numerous processes, structures and programmes that have taken and continue to take our society towards the realisation of this goal. The programmes of all Government departments and the three spheres of government, as well as the state corporations, are geared towards one specific achievement - to bring about a better life for all.

It is in this context that we come to this Council at least once a year so as to assess the progress, or lack thereof, of the work we are doing together as Government, legislatures, municipalities and public representatives.

Of necessity, this exercise assists to perfect our work, ensuring that we continuously rectify mistakes that may be committed, and improve both the programmes and instruments at our disposal as we strive to reconstruct and develop our country.

Hon members may have seen the SAARF development index findings for 1994 to 2001, containing development data covering this period. The acronym SAARF stands for the South African Advertising Research Foundation. In its conclusion, this report says:

This analysis of SAARF’s All Media and Product Survey data shows extensive development in South African living standards for the period 1994 to 2001. It also shows that, in most respects, the RDP is achieving its objectives. The only exception is job creation.

The data covers areas such as home ownership, provision of clean water and electricity, access to household durables such as electrical stoves, refrigerators, television sets and musical equipment, and access to telephony.

It shows a steady decline in the proportion of people who earn less than R 2 500 a month, and a steady increase in the proportion of those who earn between R2 500 and above R6 000.

Other reports, such as those done at the University of South Africa’s Bureau of Market Research also state that the number of black people who have become more affluent has increased. According to these reports, there is a shift in expenditure pattern amongst some of the sectors of our society, because there is more money available for what are described as luxury products and services.

This change in the lives of the people did not come about on its own. It is the result of the ongoing efforts of Government since 1994 to create conditions for all our people to lead better lives, as well as the response of the economy to these efforts. It indicates that, despite the challenges facing all of us, as we transform our economy and society, we are moving in the right direction in the development of a new South Africa.

In this regard, it is clear that the Government’s programmes for the provision of essential services such as housing, water and electricity as well as the critical interventions with regard to the school-feeding scheme, pensions and child support grants, have helped greatly to loosen the grip of poverty.

I am told that, in line with the Government’s theme of this year of lending a hand to push back the frontiers of poverty, members of the NCOP have embarked on quarterly provincial visits with a specific focus on three broad areas, which are: the 21 rural and urban development nodes in all the provinces; the monitoring of the integrated development plans and their alignment with all spheres of government, and local economic development with the emphasis on SMME development, infrastructure development and the accessibility of government institutions that support this development.

I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate and thank the NCOP for the initiative to bring the national legislature closer to the people and to intervene to ensure that the policies approved by the legislature are, in fact, being implemented.

This complements the important work that we are doing through Imbizo, whereby the mass of our people continue to advise us about the best possible ways of accelerating the pace of transformation. As the Council is aware, during the course of this year, we visited the provinces of the Free State and Gauteng where, once more, the citizens of this country engaged Government about the manner in which we can, together, further improve the quality of services.

I am quite certain that members who visited the various areas of our country may have noticed both the fact that we are making progress in improving the lives of the people, as indicated by the surveys we have just mentioned, as well as the point that we still have huge challenges to overcome underdevelopment and poverty, especially in the historically black rural and urban areas.

Our duty is to use these observations and reports to find ways of increasing the pace of implementation of our policies, while ensuring that the services we deliver are of a high standard. The reports that we give to this Council must assist us to make a correct assessment about the progress we are making in eradicating poverty and improving the lives of our people.

We all remember that in 2001, the Government identified 21 rural and urban development nodes that would receive dedicated attention in our efforts to eradicate poverty and underdevelopment. As we know, the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme and the Urban Rural Development Programme are part of our comprehensive programmes in our struggle against poverty. We will have time, in the near future, to give a more detailed report on these two programmes. In the meantime, it is important to restate the fact that the primary intention of both these programmes is to implement a nationwide, intergovernmental, concrete and time-bound set of initiatives that will build essential infrastructure, create jobs, bring about sustainable local industries and ensure development in the poorest parts of our country.

As hon members know, implementation of development projects is proceeding in all the 13 rural and eight urban nodes, though this is happening unevenly. The projects range from infrastructure to economic and social development as well as capacity-building programmes. Of the 122 priority anchor projects selected for the current year, at least half of them are at the implementation phase. Further, we have established all the necessary institutional and governance arrangements for these two programmes. National, provincial and local management structures are now in place. With the support of the Independent Development Trust and the establishment of planning, implementation and management support centres, all the rural nodes have the requisite capacity to begin and to implement the programme.

We should, at all times, ensure that there is strong political leadership and management for both of these programmes. These programmes seek to demonstrate how sustainable development can be attained through integrated governance between the three spheres of national, provincial and local government. Obviously, it will be important to share the lessons arising from these two programmes and the 21 nodal points with all municipalities as we intensify our attack on poverty and underdevelopment throughout the country.

Last year, we said that one of the main challenges facing us in the transformation of our society is the urgent need to ensure that the democratic structures that were put in place serve as catalysts for change, and must therefore help our people to pull themselves out of the morass of poverty and underdevelopment. Accordingly, we agreed that with regard to local government structures, we should prioritise the finalisation of the Integrated Development Plans so that we are able to move faster with the development of the poor and marginalised areas of our country.

This is because the Integrated Development Plans are central to our work, and will ensure that we have comprehensive, practical, integrated and implementable programmes of delivery. Through the Integrated Development Plans, each one of us is enjoined to ensure that from formulation and planning to implementation of these programmes, our work is informed by an integrated approach. I am therefore happy that about 251 municipalities, which amount to 88% of our local government structures, have completed their integrated development plans.

Naturally, while we are concerned that there are 33 municipalities that have not completed these plans, we are encouraged by the overall progress we are making in the process of beginning to implement those development plans.

Of course, as the hon Premiers, I am sure, will point out, there is still the challenge of aligning these plans with the provincial programmes which, as we know, are also intended to accelerate the transformation of the living conditions of all our people. I am happy that this is also one of the tasks that the NCOP has set for itself in the work that is being carried out in the provinces.

At the national level, Government has adopted a planning framework so as to better inform and align the planning, budgeting and programming cycles between all three spheres of government. Arising out of this framework and the lessons of the municipal integrated development planning to date, the following matters are becoming increasingly obvious in our ongoing efforts to strengthen the system of integrated and co-operative governance.

These are that we should find a practical mechanism of ensuring closer collaboration and joint work between the three spheres of government in ensuring successful implementation of both the Provincial Growth and Development Strategies and the Municipal Integrated Development Plans. Formal structures and processes must be established or refined to facilitate and allow for this intergovernmental dialogue and collaboration in developmental planning and implementation. This must include the timely provision of the financial resources by all spheres of government to ensure that integrated development does, in fact, take place.

The President’s Co-ordinating Council is an important intergovernmental structure where, together with the Premiers, we can ensure the alignment of programmes. It seems obvious that Salga should also join this co-ordinating council. The Provincial Growth and Development Strategies and the Integrated Development Plans within each of our particular provinces needs far greater alignment. The challenge of accelerating the process of transformation and the eradication of poverty must inform the priorities of Provincial Growth and Development Strategies and the IDPs. Lastly, there should be strong mechanisms for all of these programmes. Clearly, it is critical that while we are making good progress in ensuring that there is integrated planning within the local government sphere, we should take this process a step further through intergovernmental interaction and policy coherence between the three spheres of government.

The NCOP has already started doing this and it is important that it continues to assist with the process of speedily aligning these local integrated development plans with similar programmes at the national and provincial levels.

Clearly, our approach of integrated governance is premised on the existence of a strong, vibrant and active local government sphere that is at the forefront of creating a better life for all. A strong and active local government, working in an integrated way, will make it easier for us to achieve the development outcomes in all municipalities. These outcomes are, amongst others, the efficient provision of essential infrastructure and services such as housing, clean water and sanitation, electricity, health services, roads, schools and recreational facilities and waste removal; the creation of better, habitable, integrated cities, towns and rural areas; and local economic development, and community reconstruction, development and empowerment.

Furthermore, it is encouraging to learn, from the Department of Provincial and Local Government, that there has been an improvement in terms of involvement and ownership of the Integrated Development Plans by most of the leadership at the municipal level.

One of the ongoing challenges in this important work is to ensure full participation of all our people in the processes of development so that they also have a sense of ownership and can contribute in whatever manner possible towards the success of these programmes.

Our efforts to improve the quality of our development planning processes within and between the spheres of government is not an end in itself. We have said previously that, given the impressive levels of macroeconomic stability that we have achieved as a country since 1994, our focus must now turn to micro-economic and local economic development.

I should say that, this afternoon, the Minister of Finance told me that the rating agency, Standard and Poors, has improved South Africa’s rating from stable to positive. [Applause.]

With regard to what I said earlier, one of the challenges facing us is indeed around the issue of local economic development. To meet this challenge, we have increased the dedicated fund for local economic development from R42 million in 1999 to R98 million in the current financial year. This has resulted in a steady increase of the projects supported through this fund, with over 3 000 permanent jobs created. The importance of this fund is that it creates the possibility for municipalities directly to pursue the objectives of local economic development, especially job creation, poverty alleviation through income generation and support for SMME development. The projects financed by this fund span many sectors, from the the agricultural sector focus on agro-processing to tourism-related activities such as arts and crafts centres, and the hospitality infrastructure and services. It will be important for all of us to look closely into the various projects that are being undertaken at a local level, because I am convinced that we all have a duty and a responsibility to support municipalities and to ensure that their efforts around local economic development do, indeed, succeed.

Clearly, the lessons that we learn on local economic development will require that we focus on some of the following challenges. Support for job- creating enterprises must be increased. We should identify areas and sectors of comparative and unique advantage and offer the necessary support. We should work on strong partnerships with the established private sector and community-based structures. We must create specific income- generation and job creation programmes directed at poor and marginalised groups in our society. We must continue to improve the skills levels of our people so that they are better able to start their own businesses as well as increase their chances of employment. The alignment of economic development strategies between the three spheres of government is an important factor for the success of local economic development.

In this context, we should find ways of tapping the skills and resources of the affluent sections of our municipalities to help the poorer areas. We should do this, because we want every part of South Africa to begin to experience development and prosperity. As we go back to our provinces and municipalities, we should remember that we have a heavy responsibility of putting in an extra effort to serve our people and our country. We should keep in mind that for our country to make the necessary development, it is incumbent on all of us to continue to lend a hand to push back the frontiers of poverty, and continuously to extend the frontiers of prosperity.

We do have the required policies and programmes. Government will continue to allocate resources to the extent that it is possible. It falls upon each one of us to do what we can so that we achieve the goal of a better life for all. [Applause.]

The PREMIER OF THE NORTHERN CAPE (Mr E M Dipico): Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, hon President, members of the NCOP, comrades and friends, let me open this small intervention by noting that we have come a long way in putting solid building blocks for our democracy to thrive and withstand any type of subversive attempts to undermine the gains we have achieved over the past few years. As a people, we remain firm in our believe that in this civilised world the only way we can resolve disagreements, as our President always says, is through democratic means within the framework of the rule of law. In this country, the basis of our law is further entrenched in the Bill of Rights.

Indeed, what we are busy with is the construction of a future based on humane principles, a future that embraces the rule of law. We are principally seeking to build a nonracial and nonsexist democratic order, to secure the future of our children and our country.

Therefore, we stand here to also add our voice to our leadership’s call, particularly our President’s, to unequivocally denounce acts of terror and those who are responsible for planning and executing such callous acts on unsuspecting civilians and ordinary people. The majority of our people want the state to act swiftly in its pursuit to bring those responsible to book.

It has also become imperative, as provinces move with speed, to ensure that democracy and its gains impact more significantly on the lives of our people, especially the rural masses, our children and women in particular. Another imperative that should be encouraged is the building of strong relations between provinces for the sake of enhancing social development.

Therefore we want to express our gratitude to the Premier of the Western Cape, Mr Martinus van Schalkwyk and his executive council, for the leadership they are demonstrating in advancing our common interest within the context of the national interest of our country through provincial collaboration in key areas of social delivery and economic development.

We have consistently argued in this House that tourism benefits, for example, can only be optimised if we see this key growth sector holistically and attend to the other elements of the sector to broaden its scope. It is imperative that the Northern Cape, the Western Cape and the Eastern Cape collaborate in optimising tourism and other economic benefits that can be derived from the N1 and N7, which go through several towns in our provinces.

The intraprovincial co-operation agreement signed between the Northern Cape, the Western Cape and the Eastern Cape provinces forms the platform from which we can further ensure the national imperative and significantly enhance, develop and give meaning in a significant way.

The people of our country are also not hung up on provincial borders, but yearn for qualitative change and service delivery irrespective of their place of residence or province, as the President said. This has been real in the area of health, job creation and the economy of our country as a whole, ensuring that, even across borders, we impact on the lives of all our people. Indeed, the Kgalagadi node is a clear example of co-operation between the Northern Cape and the North West provinces.

We have also been hard at work extrapolating as to what has to be done to enhance the efforts of our leadership in Nepad. The President and Cabinet have been leading these areas, and we as provinces need to put meaning to it to ensure that we establish mutually beneficial relationships with our immediate neighbours, for example Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, and so on.

In the context of the Northern Cape we have signed an agreement with the Carras region, the southern part of Namibia. Besides being on our doorstep, the interrelated cultural, language and family ties that exist between the people of this region and the people of Upington and Namaqualand regions of the Northern Cape compel us to do something about it. The economy is intertwined and the farmers work together. Indeed, it is only for us as leadership to give meaning to that type of work.

When one looks at the Orange River Scheme and the success of the farmers in South Africa, one finds that there is no development in Namibia because the whole river is owned by South Africa. The people of Namibia and farmers in that area can, therefore, not tap into that resource, ie the water, which is the lifeblood of that area. Indeed, we hope that this matter will be resolved at national level to allow those people to tap into that source of life, ie the water.

There is, indeed, scope to unfold mutual beneficial programmes around tourism and other economic issues, as well as deal with cross-border crime and other security matters easily and swiftly. Indeed, we have taken this African Renaissance issue much further. We have suggested exchanges of teachers who would come to our province from Namibia to teach the Nama language, so as to preserve this indigenous language of our people. This is a very important language to the people of South Africa who reside in the Northern Cape.

Recently we also hosted a delegation from Rwanda. We exposed the members of the delegation to the intricacies of political life among the province’s people, and to the diverse languages, nature and races. We also showed them how the people are working together for the good of the province and the country.

Solidarity, which has always been what drove all of us to be where we are today, particularly with countries that supported the liberation struggle, is very crucial in ensuring that we continue to be relevant event during this era. We have just returned from Cuba, and have signed an agreement with the province of Havanna.

This will once again benefit our people, who have been part of the struggle to bring about change. They will learn from each country about its difficulties, and how they can also succeed under very difficult circumstances. The Cuban doctors and their families in the province know that they are at home as they proceed to assist us in the rural areas.

We have a contingent of students in various fields who were sent from our province to go and study in Cuba. We believe that that work is going very well, because our children are determined to come back and serve the people in the rural areas, as opposed to being forgotten in Johannesburg and Cape Town. They will come back to places such as Lilliefontein, Pofadder, Richmond and so on. That is what we need from patriotic South Africans.

As we prepare for the first decade of liberation and democratic governance, we need to make sure that a solid base is in place to ensure further development and the unfolding of the dreams of our forefathers, who saw our country and the continent playing a huge role in the promotion of peace across the globe, as well as being instrumental to change. We should ensure that a legacy is in place to withstand the rogue elements who want to reverse our gains as a people and a country; build on the work that has been done to contribute towards efforts for peace and a just world order; realise the goodness of common efforts to ensure a humane world; and protect the environment for sustainable development.

We must continue to put pressure on companies and institutions that neglect the people who contributed a great deal to help them accrue wealth during their operations in this country. We are here speaking about certain situations in mining, where for example the people of Prieska in the Northern Cape and Ga-Mathabathe in Limpopo, who deserve much better, have up to now been at the mercy of Cape PLC and their financial backers.

Once more, we need to stand together to ensure that our people get justice in this regard. We believe that the mining charter does deal with the way forward to ensure that all companies act responsibly in the rural areas. They should play their role to ensure that our people are protected. We must never again repeat what has happened in the big holes - that is, the manganese, iron ore and asbestos areas - where our people are still going through difficulties.

In conclusion, the role of this House has, once more, been aptly demonstrated by its furtherance and development of democracy, as we continue to go around provinces to ensure that the Government of the people is in place. I want to thank the Chairperson for the leadership she has given to all of us to continue to be in touch with our people. I also want to thank the President for the line of march he has given us.

We have demonstrated that it is at local government level where it matters most, because that is where we need to change the lives of our people, eradicate poverty and implement the IDPs which have been concluded, to ensure that there is an economic revival which will bring jobs. Partnerships with the new mining groups that are coming in would for us spell a new challenge to ensure that our people benefit from the new operations in those mines.

We also are thankful for the President’s leadership in ensuring that the Northern Cape at last has an institution of higher learning, where we can develop skills that are particular to the Namas, the Griquas, the Sans and other people who are forgotten. We want to ensure that we are able to develop them where they live. [Applause.]

The PREMIER OF THE FREE STATE (Miss I W Direko): Madam Chairperson, hon rotating Chairperson of the NCOP, hon President Thabo Mbeki, hon premiers, hon members of the provincial legislatures present in this Council today and hon members of the NCOP, …

… dit is vir my ‘n voorreg om die agb Marthinus van Schalkwyk geluk te wens met sy nuwe posisie in hierdie Raad. Dit is nog ‘n verdere stap van verantwoordelikheid wat ons almal sal moet dra om ‘n beter land op te bou vir ‘n beter toekoms vir ons land. Baie geluk vorentoe. [Applous.]

AGB LEDE: Hoor, hoor! (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[… it is a privilege for me to be able to congratulate the hon Marthinus van Schalkwyk in this Council on his new position. This is a further step in the responsibility that all of us shall have to bear in order to build a better country for a better future for our country. I wish him everything of the best for the future.

HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear!]

THE PREMIER: The reversal of the legacy of poverty and underdevelopment remains the biggest challenge facing us as a nation, because this forms the very foundation of the reconstruction and development of the lives of the poor masses of this country. In the Free State the declining mining and agricultural activities, that are the mainstay of the economy of the Free State, compound this problem.

A sustainable and concerted strategy dealing with these challenges is the 3- year Free State Development Plan, underpinned by the following five strategic objectives: enhancing economic development and job creation; providing and facilitating sustainable infrastructure; investing in the development of the people of the Free State; ensuring a safe and secure environment for all; and sound, co-operative governance with the sustainable use of resources in the environment.

Our first effective step in this direction was the transformation of our new municipalities. This entailed the fast-track capacity-building of the five district municipalities and 20 local municipalities. Central to this process was the development of the integrated development plans, or IDPs, which are aligned to the Free State Development Plan. In order to monitor the progress made with government programmes and therefore delivery at local government level, the Free State provincial government continues to benefit from the establishment of the Provincial and Local Government Forum, which we refer to as Provloc, and the Premier’s Mayors Forum, which meet monthly and bimonthly respectively.

Our fight against poverty in the province is a collective onslaught and is showing promising signs. The nodal area of Thabo Mofutsanyane is receiving undivided attention from all spheres of government. I am proud to announce in this Council that 30 development projects were packaged to alleviate ravaging poverty in this area. Over R400 million is earmarked for all these development projects. To date 15 projects have been launched and the rest are in various stages of completion. R201 million has been either spent on or committed to these 15 projects.

In the true spirit of integrated rural development, these projects include: housing; bulk water supply; health care; schools; roads; telecommunication; electricity; vegetable farming; and water purification, which is critically needed in Thabo Mofutsanyane, in fact in the whole of Qwaqwa. These projects created 1 865 sustainable jobs and 4 091 temporary jobs. The Free State province’s answer to the declining mining and agricultural sectors is the transformation of the economy and the development of an industrial development strategy underpinned by strong manufacturing and export markets. Beneficiation of natural resources and the establishment of agro-industry is our answer. To this end the Virginia Jewellery Hub has been established. To date R100 million’s worth of foreign investment has been secured, immediately creating 350 permanent job opportunities with a further 1 250 opportunities at a later stage. A jewellery school has been opened with the first intake of 18 students from the previously disadvantaged communities to be trained in jewellery designing and related skills.

The economic transformation, with specific reference to sustainable development, is currently at the top of our agenda. For this purpose the Free State provincial government held a series of stakeholder sessions, soliciting their commitment and pledge in making the Free State economy work. The Free State government and its social partners have also committed themselves fully to the African Union and the New Partnership for Africa’s Development. The province is engaged in continuous dialogue on these continental initiatives with universities, the private sector, faith-based organisations, NGOs, youth formations and local government.

In the spirit and letter of Nepad, the Free State government is also involved in transfrontier health, education, social welfare, safety and security, tourism and infrastructure development with our neighbour Lesotho. In response to famine in Lesotho a month ago the Free State government negotiated with Free State commercial farmers to get into Lesotho with their own tractors and plough the land of the Basotho farmers. This process is still continuing. We are therefore thankful to our farmers who enthusiastically responded to our call for assistance. We are hopeful that many more will demonstrate the spirit of oneness when called upon to do so in the future.

In addition to binational agreements entered into between Lesotho and South Africa, we are also part of the Maluti-Drakensberg Transfrontier Tourism Development in partnership with Lesotho, KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape. Steady but meaningful progress is being made on the international front. Co-operation agreements have been signed between our province and Australia, Belgium and Canada. An achievement of note in this regard is the recent agreement with the European Union to increase funding for the agricultural poverty-alleviation programme, which we refer to as the Community Project Fund Support Programme. Funds are increased from R10 000 to R25 000 per beneficiary per project.

In conclusion, it is with a special sense of accomplishment that I announce in this Council that we have succeeded with our partners from faith-based organisations in launching the moral regeneration movement in all five regions as a means of involving municipalities and councils at that level, which culminated in the provincial launch just this past Friday in Bloemfontein. The Free State joins the hon the President in the condemnation of senseless attacks on defenceless people. It must not and should not be allowed to continue in this country. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Hon members, I should have indicated at the start of this sitting that the House is pleased to indicate to our President that we have a new Deputy Chairperson, the hon Mahlangu.

I think this information will also be of interest to our colleagues. I note that there are a number of speakers from the provincial legislatures, and I welcome them here today. The hon Mahlangu is in the House. Mr Mahlangu, if you could just rise for a moment, so that the members should know who you are. [Applause.]

I have also noted that there was an individual termed the Public Protector present in the gallery. He is the former Deputy Chairperson. He has stepped out for a moment, but he is present with us today as well. I also must indicate that we have in the public gallery a delegation from the Parliament of South Korea. If we could ask them to stand up. [Applause.] You are welcome in the Parliament of South Africa.

We now proceed to call on the Chief Whip of the National Council of Provinces, Mr Surty.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: Chairperson, hon President, hon premiers, special delegates from the provincial legislatures, delegates from Salga and members, may I join those that have spoken before me in congratulating Mr Van Schalkwyk on his appointment as the rotating Deputy Chairperson of this Council. We are confident that, given the proximity of Parliament to his offices, we will be able to engage very frequently in terms of issues that face our country.

On 31 July 2002 a historic journey by Parliament, through the NCOP, began. As we travelled to Umtata, we observed the extraordinary beauty around us: the rolling hills and valleys, and the pristine purity of the landscape. This served as a gentle reminder to us to preserve and sustain our environment. We passed the region where our President was born, and entered the O R Tambo region, home to two of our previous, successive ANC presidents. Indeed, the Eastern Cape is a political incubator for leadership and presidents.

Parliament embarked on its journey to meet the people. Our primary task was to listen to, and investigate the enormous problems the poor were encountering in accessing social development grants in the Eastern Cape. Also on our agenda were meetings with traditional leaders, academics, women and other citizens. Our visit culminated in a plenary at the University of Transkei, where we were able to report to the people of the Eastern Cape that certain areas that were at that time afflicted by floods would be declared disaster areas by our President.

We also conveyed the unstinting commitment of the Premier of the Eastern Cape and members of his executive committee, who notwithstanding the exceptionally inclement weather, went to those areas, provided support, empathised with the vulnerable victims and determined what mitigating and rehabilitative steps they could take in the face of this disaster that had afflicted people. We congratulate the Premier on his re-election and, indeed, say that this comes as no surprise to us. [Applause.]

Indeed, we saw Government responding to the plight of the people in a manner consistent with the statement of our President, Mr Mbeki, that democracy is about creating a humane and caring society, and the establishment of institutions that are people-centred. The public hearings, especially in respect of social development, convinced us that an integrated approach to service delivery is indeed the correct one. The impact of inefficiencies in the Department of Home Affairs resulted in frustrating the poorest of the poor from accessing social grants, as they could only do so with the new identity documents.

These and other matters have been referred to various committees of the NCOP for monitoring and follow-up. The successful implementation of these critical programmes will depend largely on effective intergovernmental relationships, an area which requires our preferred and constant attention. It also raises political questions of devolution or decentralisation of certain areas of national competencies.

We held a plenary at the University of Transkei, to give citizens in remote and far-flung areas of our country an opportunity to observe the law-making process. It was an interesting coincidence that we dealt with the Bill which sought to reinstate legal practitioners that were struck off the roll because of their political convictions and activism. One of such practitioners was Braam Fisher, for whom we had a special exhibition at the University of Transkei. That this occurred in the district which produced the first black legal partnership of O R Tambo and Nelson Mandela, made it all the more poignant.

Madam Chair, we must acknowledge your leadership, with the support of Mr Mushwana, who left us a short while ago, in arranging this inspiring and important visit. It goes without saying that without the co-operation of the provincial government, our partners in the legislature and local government, this could not have been accomplished. We, therefore, express our gratitude to them and other stakeholders for their support.

The President had invited this Council to define its role in the context of our Constitution and co-operative governance. Pursuant to this, we sought creative ways in fulfilling our mandate, both from the legislative perspective and our inherent oversight role. We came today, with humility, to provide the President and our premiers with a glimpse of how we have, in partnership with our legislatures and to an extent local government, embarked on a programme to give effect to the constitutional imperative of responsive, participatory and inclusive governance.

In so doing, we have elected not to walk too far behind the President, nor ahead of him, but with him, to grapple with the challenges of eradicating poverty and creating what he has described as a humane and caring society. We did so by ensuring that the provincial weeks focus on the critical areas of development, aimed at eradicating poverty and improving the quality of the lives of our people.

In so doing, we recognise that our Constitution categorically enjoins Government in terms of its underlying values and the right to equality, to take appropriate steps to redress the inequalities of the past. This in effect means that we must monitor and oversee the concrete and tangible steps taken by Government to eradicate poverty and redress the disparities created by our unfortunate past. Let us expand on this notion briefly.

During the provincial week we selected an area of oversight in consultation with our counterparts in the provincial legislatures that is critical to the developmental agenda of Government, and occurs in the context of co- operative and intergovernmental relationships. The 21 presidential nodes were a classical developmental initiative aimed at creating an integrated and sustainable rural development and urban renewal. It posed a specific challenge for co-operative governance and intergovernmental relationships.

In a week, we were able to achieve a broad view of whether the programmes are functional in the nine provinces, and identify the achievements and challenges that confronted our provinces. The visit was followed by a discussion among all members of this Council, with a view to consolidating a report arising from our different experiences, and sharing information in relation to the visits that we had undertaken to the nine provinces during the week.

We thereupon debated the matter in plenary with the Minister for Provincial and Local Government, and we must thank him for the support that he has provided to our various delegations in terms of information and details about the various programmes. The horizontal and intergovernmental interaction allowed us to make, among others, the following determinations and recommendations.

Firstly, all nodes were engaged in tangible activities which contribute significantly to integrated sustainable development. Secondly, notwithstanding the wonderful co-operation between the North West and the Northern Cape in the Kgalakgadi district, it has been our view that we should revisit the issue of whether, in fact, cross-boundary municipalities are practical or viable, and whether they are functional in terms of political and administrative management. We believe that provincial boundaries should be revisited in order to ensure and achieve optimal delivery.

Thirdly, the sustainability and maintenance of the diverse programmes depended largely on the municipalities taking ownership of these projects. Their participation must, therefore, be enhanced. Provincial governments have a particular responsibility to ensure that they monitor and provide whatever appropriate capacity and support is necessary to local government.

On another visit we closely examined the efficacy of the integrated development plans; whether they were understood by councillors and managers alike; and what the relationship of the IDPs in local government was to that of provincial government and the national priorities. We also endeavoured to determine the level of participation of the public in both the IDP and the budget processes. This critical area of local government will be expanded on by a colleague who will speak later.

I would like to say to the President that it is clear that without local economic development and investment in infrastructure, the necessary developmental environment for economic growth and opportunity cannot be created. It is critical that we determine how effective the various economic entities or agencies are in the provinces and at the level of the local government. Do they make an impact on our people? Are they promoting small, medium and micro enterprises in an efficient manner? What kind of co- ordination exists between local government and provincial government in this regard?

This was the subject of our enquiry on another provincial week, and this area will be canvassed by a colleague who will speak more fully about it later. At another level we realised that the legislative processes must be extended to involve local government and other stakeholders. With the support of our legislatures, we were able to discuss critical legislation with councillors in areas away from the seat of provincial legislatures. This was in keeping with our aspiration to have a people-centred, inclusive and participatory democracy.

The crossing-of-the-floor legislation and the Disaster Management Bill were among the examples where we held public hearings and discussions with other stakeholders and ordinary citizens, and we received extremely helpful submissions from them to the extent that they shape the ultimate form of the legislation.

The strength of any development programme must be in the budgetary allocation of resources to execute the programme. As part of our close engagement with our legislatures and the executive, we were able to engage with the Medium-term Expenditure Framework in all nine provinces. We were adequately equipped by the Minister of Finance, and all delegations sought to share this information with the nine provinces. Our engagement with the provinces provided us with the context of the expenditure framework and enhanced our understanding of the current financial and fiscal trends.

The President will notice that in this House we try to develop a comprehensive grasp of the issues we have, as we have the responsibility of promoting provincial interests. But we do so without seeking to undermine our national identity, nor to undermine the national priorities that have been set in motion by our Government. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The PREMIER OF THE WESTERN CAPE (Mr M C J van Schalkwyk): Madam Chairperson, the pessimists are saying that South Africa will become another Zimbabwe, but we know that South Africa will be a success. The pessimists are saying that relations between our different communities are deteriorating and will continue to worsen. They take great pleasure in predicting widely and loudly the end of our rainbow nation. We know that there are enough leaders of character and quality from every community in South Africa to do what must be done, ie to build our common future and again prove the pessimists wrong.

One of the most pressing challenges confronting our country in our quest to succeed is the burning question of land and land reform. We have heard the hon the President talking this afternoon about poverty alleviation and sustainable economic development. Our approach to land reform must be driven by the principles of sustainability, transparency and responsibility. It must aim to protect private property and at the same time extend land ownership to those who were previously denied access.

Since 1999 the Department of Land Affairs, with the co-operation of farmers, has been able to deliver more than 1,1 million hectares of formerly private land for redistribution, as well as another 1,2 million hectares of state agricultural land. Government’s target of redistributing 30% of all agricultural land in South Africa by 2015 and the fact that R323 million has been put aside for land reform and restitution over the next three years, should be welcomed by all and deserve our collective support.

As the government of the Western Cape we are critically aware of how important it is for us to broaden the base of those communities who benefit from economic growth. More people from more communities need to feel the power of economic change, particularly in the agricultural sector.

Our plan is to settle 7 000 new emerging farmers from the coloured and black communities in addition to the 11 000 existing white commercial farmers as soon as possible through the 150 development projects registered in our province. This will be done in close partnership with Agri Western Cape, the organised body of commercial farmers. Agri Western Cape continues to play a very positive and constructive role in land reform in the Western Cape.

The story of successful land reform in South Africa is the story of men and women like Mr Trevor Abrahams. Last year, under our land reform programme in the province, Mr Abrahams was settled on 18 hectares of land in the Warm Bokkeveld near Ceres. Operating under the name ``Trevor se Boerdery’’, with the help and mentorship of Mr Robert Graaff of a nearby farm, Lushof, Mr Abrahams planted peaches and butternuts for the export market, as well as other crops for sale locally. This year he aims to produce carrots for the Taiwanese market. He is an example of how South African men and women, given the opportunity, will make a success of meaningful land reform.

North Ridge Farms, also outside Ceres, provides another example of land reform which has worked. One year after facing unemployment, Mr Paul Onrust and the workers of North Ridge Farms have celebrated their first year as 100% shareholders, with a profit of R1,3 million on a turnover of R7,9 million. With hard work and dedication to make a success of their opportunities, the people of North Ridge have shown us all that can be accomplished.

Both Mr Trevor Abrahams and Mr Paul Onrust, as well as Mr Kosie Loubser and Mr Frans le Roux of Agri Western Cape are in the public gallery today. I would like to acknowledge their presence and their achievements as representatives of a much wider land reform programme which is working. [Applause.]

One of the focus areas of the President’s speech today was the role of local government in poverty alleviation. Sadly, it is at the level of local government that one of the most problematic issues with the potential to undo much of the good work that has been done in land reform, arises, and that is the issue of an agricultural land tax - of course, also with regard to traditional land.

It is quite clear that some municipalities are using agricultural land taxes to balance their budgets and view such taxes as an easy source of revenue. This problem is further compounded by the fact that there is no uniform system and that the implementation differs widely from municipality to municipality. Some municipalities have charged as much as 7%. The implication for the sustainability of agriculture, both from the perspective of production and job creation, is substantial. Excessive agricultural land taxes also create an extra barrier to the entry of new emerging farmers.

The Government’s own Katz Commission produced a report in August 1998 that very clearly pointed out the dangers of the introduction of such a tax, especially one based on the market value of agricultural land instead of the use value. The recent ruling by the Supreme Court of Appeal in Bloemfontein has confirmed that, although the Constitution authorises a land tax, there must be uniformity and fairness in its application. It is being estimated that farm land prices could decline as much as 6% to 12% with a land tax levy at a rate of just 1% to 2%.

I would therefore like to call on the President urgently to consider the introduction of a moratorium on the levying of agricultural land taxes by local governments, also with regard to traditional land, until such time as fair and equitable national guidelines resulting from real and comprehensive consultation has been issued to regulate these practices.

In the interim I would like to suggest that the Ministers of Provincial and Local Government, Finance and Agriculture urgently convene a stakeholders’ forum of agricultural representatives and local governments to discuss this issue and find a middle ground which is both fair and sustainable.

Success in South Africa depends on all of our communities working together and strengthening our common South African pride and patriotism. The recent spate of bombings in Soweto and other places has been held up by some as evidence of how our communities have drifted apart since 1994. One group in particular has been very loud in its expressions of frustration in this regard.

The Group of 63 is a self-appointed group of Afrikaner academics and intellectuals who proclaim their commitment to advancing the cause of Afrikaners and Afrikaans. They took offence after my criticism of them at the weekend, where they called on President Mbeki to analyse what they call Afrikaner alienation as a reason for these bombings, allegedly the work of right-wing Afrikaners.

Organisations like the Group of 63 are self-appointed and do not speak on behalf of any substantial Afrikaner grouping or even Afrikaans intellectuals. [Interjections.] The way to deal with frustrations in the Afrikaner community is to do what the New NP is doing: Become part of the mainstream and put constructive views on the table where they count, advancing the interests of all South Africans.

According to the Group of 63’s own documentation, their advisory committee consists of - and I must say they are respected people, respected South Africans - people like Prof Johan Degenaar, Prof Lawrence Schlemmer, Prof Hermann Gilliomee, Prof David Welsh and Dr Van Zyl Slabbert. I would like to call on these people to distance themselves from both the statement and the approach of this Group of 63. Once one starts on this road of carefully worded apologies for violence, there is no turning back.

Ons moenie aan randgroepe soos hierdie erkenning verleen, dat hulle namens enige betekenisvolle groep Afrikaners of Afrikaanssprekendes praat nie. Dit is nie die geval nie. Mense wat die wet oortree, moet met die volle omvang en die wese van die gereg te doen kry. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[We must not recognise these peripheral groups, that they speak on behalf of any significant group of Afrikaners or Afrikaans-speaking persons. This is not the case. People who break the law must be faced with the full scope and substance of the law.]

If frustration is an excuse to plant bombs, let us compare frustrations. There are many people with frustrations in this country: frustrations because they are still waiting for running water; frustrations because it takes longer to build houses than we all initially expected; frustrations because we are not creating jobs at the rate we would like them to be created; and frustrations because some parents in this country do not know where and how they will provide their children with a proper meal.

Despite these frustrations, these are not the people planting bombs. The people planting these bombs are doctors, lawyers and professionals - people who have had the opportunity to study at university. Groups like the Group of 63 should reconsider the whole basis of their argument and their approach. They are not doing the cause of Afrikaners and Afrikaans any good. They are doing more harm than good by becoming apologists for violence.

The reaction of the FF, represented in this Parliament, was essentially the same as that of the Group of 63. Although they pay lip service to opposition to violence, they then continue to build the arguments for why these so-called frustrations lead to such acts.

Under our electoral system, we do not have any thresholds for parties to be represented in Parliament. Other countries with similar electoral systems have a cut-off of 3% to 5%. The idea in South Africa is that we should make it easy for parties to be represented in Parliament and to put their case here. Parties should not be allowed to abuse the freedom and the protection of Parliament to become apologists for undemocratic behaviour and the planting of bombs. [Interjections.]

In conclusion, the coalition government within the Western Cape is working well. We are living up to our commitment to breathe life into the words of our Constitution and to live our Constitution. We are illustrating that it is possible for blacks, coloureds, whites and Indians to not only tolerate each other, but to be successful together. That is what we will continue to do. [Applause.]

The PREMIER OF THE NORTH WEST (Dr P S Molefe): Hon Chairperson, President, hon members and premiers, may I thank the President for being such a visionary leader who constantly focuses the minds of all of us on the critical questions facing us all, particularly the question of local government, and the question of poverty, reminding us of the real purpose for which we exist as politicians and as the National Council of Provinces.

We thank the President again for raising the issue of traditional authorities. I would like to say that, as far as the North West province is concerned, the message that we bring to everyone else is that there will be no confrontation on dealing with the issue of traditional authorities; that they understand that the critical issues that we have to confront are those that relate to the delivery of services to our people. As the President is aware, we are awaiting a date from his office as to when he will join us in publicly announcing a partnership of traditional authorities and municipalities in development of our communities. That indicates, therefore, a common commitment to changing the lives of our people for the better.

The President’s speech today demonstrated eloquently that with each day that goes by our relatively young democracy matures, that more than ever before, as a nation and as a people, we are continuing to reap the rewards of our hard-earned democracy. Gradually, the dark clouds of pessimism that were the hallmark of our society for many years are now being replaced by a spirit of optimism. There is optimism that the legacy of many years of apartheid and colonial rule is being eroded, and optimism that the battle to banish poverty, ignorance and general want is being won. Indeed, eight years into our democratic state South Africa is already playing a meaningful role in the global arena. Increasingly world leaders are looking to South Africa to provide leadership on a number of critical challenges facing the world.

Fully aware and convinced that our survival as a country is inextricably linked to that of the African continent and indeed the whole world, we have responded with the necessary energy and zeal to the tasks placed upon us by the international community. Our role in the formation of the African Union, and in the New Partnership for Africa’s Development, as well as our participation in a number of international forums, bears testimony to this. Now for all this we are thankful for the President’s visionary leadership to our country and to our continent.

I would like to focus my speech this afternoon on the following two areas that I think are of critical importance, namely local government and poverty alleviation and infrastructure development and poverty alleviation.

The democratic Government inherited a system of local government rooted in a philosophy that was elitist, discriminatory and not geared to meeting the developmental needs of the new dispensation. This system of local government created cities of contrasts, where pockets of wealth and opulence were surrounded by a sea of poverty and deprivation. Fully aware that this system was not only immoral, but also structurally deficient, we as the democratic Government set ourselves the goal of transforming our local government system. As Government we consciously took a decision to position local government at the centre of the delivery of services to our people. Indeed, our new local government dispensation clearly gives expression to our vision of a developmental local government system. It positions this sphere of government at the cutting edge of the battle to push back the frontiers of poverty.

Of even more significance is that our new system of local government has ushered in an era of integrated planning and co-ordination amongst the various spheres of government. Integrated planning and co-ordination is important in that it not only ensures that duplication in the delivery process is eliminated, but also ensures that we use the least resources to achieve maximum gains. Integrated planning and co-ordination also ensures that services are delivered in the most efficient and sustainable manner.

I am pleased to report to this House that in the North West province we are beginning to reap the rewards of integrated planning and co-ordination amongst various spheres of government. Through integrated planning and co- ordination in the North West province we are lending a hand in the national effort to roll back the frontiers of poverty. The success we have registered so far in the implementation of the integrated rural development programme in the Kgalagadi district is a direct result of the integration of planning amongst the various spheres of government. Let me remind hon members that the Kgalagadi district, which is located in one of the poorest areas of our country, has been designated as a presidential developmental node.

Progress made in the Kgalagadi district has led to the identification of projects worth R170 million and we have added another R7 million to assist them. I am pleased to report that about 90% of these projects are already in progress. These projects are directly aimed at poverty alleviation and unleashing the economic potential of the Kgalagadi area. Indeed, these projects will go a long way in bringing a better life to the people of Kgalagadi.

But what is unique about Kgalagadi is the fact that it is situated in a cross-boundary municipality. The uniqueness of this project emphasises the need and importance of integrated planning amongst all spheres of government. I have said previously that I think it is emerging as a model that all of us will have a lot to learn from.

Hon Surty has urged us to review the system of cross-boundary municipality boundaries because of the complex nature that it represents and the difficulties that it has. The hon member will be pleased to know that the President’s Council - which is led by the President and where all premiers and the Minister for Provincial and Local Government participate - decided at its recent meeting, and unanimously so, that the system of cross- boundary municipalities is unworkable and needs to be done away with, and that the provincial boundaries should be accordingly adjusted to meet this objective. So we are expecting that, between the Minister for Provincial and Local Government and the provinces, processes will be put in motion to identify specific steps that need to be taken in order for us to rapidly do away with this system of cross-boundary municipalities so that we can speed up service delivery.

Let me now move on to the issue of infrastructural development and poverty alleviation. As a result of the prudent manner in which our national economy has been managed, a lot of funds have been made available for infrastructure development. This development is to be welcomed and will no doubt assist the provinces and municipalities to begin to confront the challenges of infrastructure development, as well as push back the frontiers of poverty.

The bulk of provincial governments’ infrastructure spending is dedicated to alleviating social problems in the areas of education, health and road construction. Infrastructure spending, particularly in rural areas, not only creates much-needed job opportunities, but also ensures that essential services are delivered to our people. Only last week, I was in a village called Makabetlwane, where we were handing over a water project costing R5 million to a community of 3 500 people. This community had lived there for 94 years, during which they had to drink water with donkeys and cattle, in a pit.

A year ago, they decided to bring the water in a bucket into my office to show what kind of water they had been drinking for 94 years. We responded rapidly and we gave them that project. It was an emotionally charged atmosphere that we experienced when we handed over the project, but I also noticed among those people that there was a high level of optimism. They were positive, they understood the challenges facing the country, they did not expect everything to happen at once and they were prepared for us to deal with issues step by step.

I want to tell the President that that day I wanted to call him and tell him a positive story for once, so that we do not tell him problems all the time. Unfortunately, the President was in Cambodia and I could not give him a call. [Laughter.] But I am telling him this to say that those who keep on saying that people are angry and alienated and do not support this Government, that they are frustrated, etc, do not reflect the reality on the ground. People have problems, but they also understand that this Government is dealing with those problems. So I thought the President needed to know that, because it is good that sometimes we give him leave from those things that stress him, and tell him positive stories.

I think that it is this kind of infrastructure, therefore, that gives hope to our people that the battle against poverty is being won. I am concluding now, and in concluding I would like to take this opportunity to wish my successor, Premier Marthinus van Schalkwyk, well for the future and congratulate him on his election as the rotating chairperson of the NCOP. I also congratulate him on his election as the leader of the New NP. Similarly, I would like to congratulate my colleague the hon Makhenkesi Stofile on his re-election as the leader of the ANC in the Eastern Cape.

Mnr P A MATTHEE: Voorsitter, mnr die President, ``Saam wen Suid-Afrika’’. Dit was die tema van die suksesvolle en entoesiastiese federale kongres van die Nuwe NP die pas afgelope naweek. Dit is ons boodskap aan elke Suid- Afrikaner. Ons het gekies om by te dra tot die bou van ons nasie, nie om van die kantlyn af te skreeu nie, soos die DP/DA. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, Mr President, ``Together South Africa wins’’. This was the theme of the successful and enthusiastic federal congress of the New NP this past weekend. This is our the message to each South African. We chose to contribute to building our nation, and not to shout from the sideline, like the DP/DA.]

We in the New NP want to say that the problems and challenges of poverty, crime, HIV/Aids and unemployment, which our country and our people are faced with are our problems and our challenges. We will, in the interest of all our people, and with all the strength at our disposal, enthusiastically to whatever it takes to help to resolve these problems. Everything in us revolts against the DP/DA attitude of what is bad for the country is good for the DA and of their being possessed of the idea of opposing and criticising at all costs without doing anything themselves to help solve the problems of our country and our people.

In 1994 het ons ‘n politieke wonderwerk beleef met ‘n ongekende gees van samewerking en die beginsels van ubuntu. In 1996 het die Regering van Nasionale Eenheid egter misluk omdat ons aan beide kante nog nie daarin kon slaag om saam die nuwe uitdagings van ons land te aanvaar nie. Mnre Mandela en De Klerk het die bouproses begin. Dit lê egter nou op ons weg om daardie bouproses verder te neem en uiteindelik te voltooi. Ons het die eenvoudige, maar kragtige, waarheid herontdek, naamlik dat ons slegs ‘n sukses van ons land kan maak as ons almal saamwerk. Ten spyte van verskille is daar slegs een pad na sukses, en dit is die pad van samewerking op al die regeringsvlakke in die belang van al ons mense. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[In 1994 we experienced a political miracle with an unprecedented spirit of co-operation and the principles of ubuntu. In 1996 the Government of National Unity failed, however, because on both sides we had not yet succeeded in together accepting the new challenges of our country. Messrs Mandela and De Klerk started the building process. It is our destiny now to take this process of building further and eventually to complete it. We have rediscovered this simple, but powerful truth, namely, that we can only make a success of our country if we all work together. In spite of differences there is only one road to success, and this is the road of co- operation at every level of government in the interests of all our people.]

Minority communities have a choice. The one choice is to fight back. This is the old recipe of opposition at all costs and the exploitation of minority fears. It is a message filled with pessimism and the destructive potential of isolation and division. The other choice, our choice, offers hope and relevance. We now have the opportunity … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, Order!

Mr P A MATTHEE: … to break out of our divided history and to walk through the door of the new South Africa, together. We say: Let us fight the differences. We as South Africans have enough in common to be co-builders and in the interests of our people it is better together to find solutions to the challenges that we as a nation face than to continue opposing one another for the sake of opposition to the detriment of our people.

The simple truth is that if this ship called South Africa should sink, we all sink together. It would not help to blame the captain. There is no point in cursing the darkness of crime, poverty, HIV/Aids and unemployment. We must together shine as bright a light as possible in order to drive away the darkness of the problems facing us. We know that the proof of the pudding lies in the eating and we have already produced tangible results. As hon members have heard from the speech of our leader, the results of co- operative governance are already starting to show for all to see, especially at this stage in the Western Cape. However, soon it will be so all over the country, because together South Africa wins.

The PREMIER OF MPUMALANGA (Mr N J Mahlangu): Mr Chairperson, His Excellency our President, hon premiers and hon members, thank you for the opportunity to share with the Council a few ideas about how we are doing things in Mpumalanga.

As we gather here today, as servants of the people, we can look back at the past year as a year of great achievements which have been brought about by our commitment to effective implementation of government programmes and the delivery of services that respond to the needs and expectations of our people. Our people understand and support our programmes, because they know that these programmes will ensure that they move further away from poverty and suffering, towards a better quality of life.

In the imbizos and in our community outreach programmes, our people told us that our basic policies are sound. But they also told us that the mechanisms for delivery and the visible impact on poverty in terms of how it affects the lives of women, youth, rural communities and people living on farms must be accelerated. They said we should do this through better integration and co-ordination of infrastructure delivery. We are doing that, but the people want us to improve on that.

Soon after the 1999 elections, the Mpumalanga provincial government determined the following as basic priorities which must guide the delivery of service in our province, which is a predominantly rural province: that economic growth must result in job creation; and to establish effective and efficient financial management, effective and efficient administration and integrated and co-ordinated service delivery.

In order to give effect to the economic growth which should result in job creation, during the past three years we have facilitated the establishment of economic fora in each municipal and district council area. We have already established economic fora in all our municipalities, and are finalising district and local economic fora. We plan to establish a provincial economic forum consisting of representatives from our district economic fora.

The main function of these economic fora is to look at the opportunities of economic growth in their respective areas, such as tourism, mining, agriculture and the manufacturing industries. As a result of these activities of the economic fora, we were able to resuscitate many business complexes, industries and enterprises which are still viable. These business undertakings are those which were financed by our parastatals before 1994. We have also established a team of experts, under the leadership of a deputy director-general in the premier’s office, to ensure that all departments comply with both financial and administrative rules. These processes have eliminated corruption, theft and laxity at work in our province.

We have established four cabinet clusters, ie governance, social, economic and criminal justice. Executive district municipalities and the executive mayors and councillors of these structures are participating in all these clusters. Cluster meetings are held once a month. These clusters of provincial departments and municipalities ensure that their daily service delivery service programmes are co-ordinated and integrated.

These clusters are preceded by cluster technical committees consisting of provincial heads of department and town managers of participating municipalities. The function of these technical committees is to prepare the scope and agenda of each cluster. During the planning stages of the integrated development programme of our district councils, the municipalities of a particular district participate and align their individual integrated development programme to their respective district council.

In turn, all heads of provincial departments participate in the drawing up of integrated development plans - IDPs - of all our district councils and they make sure that their yearly programmes are aligned to these IDPs. This process also helps to capacitate both our local municipalities and district councils in drawing up their integrated development plans.

We are also studying a new process in terms of which each MEC in our province will hold regular meetings with a representative councillor from each municipality in our province to allow information flow and further co- ordination with the provincial government. We also have a structure called the Mpumalanga Intergovernmental Relations Forum which is aimed at ensuring that there is a co-ordinated development approach between the different spheres of government in the province, attended by the mayor and chaired by the premier.

We are looking at improving the structure in order for it to be similar to the President’s co-ordinating council so that information flows from the PCC down to municipalities at once during the session of this forum. In this way we believe we shall eventually have a totally integrated and co- ordinated service delivery for our people.

We are continuing to strengthen and expand on our relations with our sister provinces in neighbouring countries. For example, in Swaziland and Mozambique we already have agreements. Through these interactions we hope to attract investment into our province which will provide jobs for the unemployed and create revenue for the province. We are convinced that the African Renaissance, as a vision, aims to bring an end to wars and violent conflicts in our continent. We must at this stage condemn the uncalled for bombing by certain people who do not believe in our democratic system of governing and elections. We will continue to address the backlog on a sustainable basis in water supply, access to basic sanitation and free basic water. However, one needs to state that we are currently experiencing an unprecedented water shortage in all the former homeland areas in our province.

During the past four or five years, in the Nkangala district, which includes the former KwaNdebele area and part of the former Bophuthatswana area, people have at times been without water for more than five months in a year. Black emerging farmers in these areas are worried that their white counterparts across the road have a good supply of water while they have none.

The same shortage of water is experienced in the Ehlanzeni districts in areas such as Nkomazi, Albert Luthulu, Nsikazi and surrounding areas, as well as in Moutse East and West, and so do the rural residential areas of Groblersdal which form part of cross-border Sekhukhune. In all these areas, there is virtually no water. In the former homeland areas there is very little supply, which is a very hopeless situation at this stage, because at the time when bulk water supply was provided, the population figure was very low. At present it is almost more than six times what it was at that time, and water is therefore a problem.

We are talking to the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry in order for them either to upgrade the bulk water supply system or to install a new one. We are appealing for assistance from the national Government. We have put money aside in order to upgrade water reticulation in all the affected areas, but we can go so far. The bulk water supply is a problem. A new bulk water supply system or the upgrading of the existing one is important.

We are humbly appealing to the hon President and the Cabinet of this country, while we are dealing with the Department of Water Affairs, to use their big hand to come to our rescue. This is a situation under which no human being can live. Of course, the people are still patient despite these hardships in which they find themselves. There is no apathy, but the difficulty is visible and one can almost touch it.

We believe that if these matters were to be addressed, people could really find joy, as they continue to do so. Of course, there are opportunists who believe that the shortage of water is deliberate, whereas it is because of the increase in the population that we have this serious shortage. As I said, we are dealing with it in terms of water reticulation, but bulk water supply needs a few million rands to be made available. It would be very helpful if during the next six months we could have this injection as a result of our interaction with the national Government. [Applause.]

The PREMIER OF THE EASTERN CAPE (Rev M A Stofile): Chairperson, His Excellency the President of the Republic of South Africa, hon members, colleagues, let me join my other colleagues in congratulating, first of all, the second Deputy Chairperson, Mr Marthinus van Schalkwyk, recently elected to that post by us. It was inspiring to listen to his input just now, also linking up with what my colleague Manne Dipico had already said about Mr Van Schalkwyk’s leadership in the field of co-operation amongst us as neighbouring provinces. I truly believe that we have a worthy Deputy Chairperson, and that the Western Cape has made a very good choice this time. Congratulations to Marthinus.

I would also like to congratulate the new Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, Mr Mahlangu, and indeed congratulate the NCOP itself for a very innovative stance when it undertook what seemed like a very difficult task of taking Parliament to the far rural areas of our countryside. Congratulations to both Chairperson Pandor and Mr Mushwana who, despite all the dangers, attended this initiative. The threats were so many, and yet they gritted their teeth and forged ahead with our co-operation. I wish to thank them very much, and may God assist them … [Applause.]

The rate of poverty and hunger in our province - and, indeed, in the rest of South Africa - and the world has been adequately documented. It is very inspiring to see how our own President zeroed in on that very important challenge when he made his speech to us this afternoon. The President may not realise how inspiring it is for him to touch on the very things that we believe should be the focus of our provincial and local planning, because where we come from it is based on what we see every day in our lives.

This has compelled us in the province to develop a special plan to deal with this very critical situation. I am pleased to remind members that I gave them a copy of our framework in this regard. We believe that we should have a massive, rapid food production strategy to deal with both hunger and economic development, as well as infrastructural backlogs. This will access the economy and the centres where this economy must be developed through the people from the rural areas themselves.

To achieve this, we decided that all planning in the province be guided by the municipal IDPs. In this way integrated rural development programmes can make a maximum impact and, indeed, save us a whole lot of money as we will use one basket. The thrust of our plans is massive and rapid food production is linked to modernised and mechanised forms of food production.

This will be linked, therefore, to the much-needed skills and human resource development that continue to elude the rural people of our communities. It will also be linked to the improvement of the road infrastructure, which continues to be the victim of all these inclement weather conditions that have been visiting us on an annual basis since 1995.

As a result, we continue to build roads and bridges but, as we do so, the rest of our bridges are also beginning to feel the strain. The average age of our bridges is now 50 years, and as such they are all beginning to need attention. So, as disasters hit us we begin to panic because our plans for the refurbishing of the old bridges are also being delayed.

The C-Map programmes play a very significant role in using the local authorities and their IDPs to help in the infrastructural provisioning. Not only do the projects create infrastructure or improve it where it exists, but they also create jobs for locals and provide assistance to SMMEs. They assist communities to overcome gender prejudices as both men and women begin to work side by side in the rural areas. This is usually taken for granted in the cities, but, believe me, it is still a huge challenge in the countryside.

All our communities are also learning to own these projects. The disillusionment with Government projects and alienation is beginning to recede as people are consulted and begin to participate in the planning and implementation of these projects.

There are myriads of examples of where this is happening, but perhaps the most outstanding is the Umtata peri-urban water supply scheme which covers 43 villages. There you have communities themselves establishing water committees to decide where these projects should be located, how they should be managed and how they should be sustained.

We also have a very interesting project which provides access to water purification by using mobile mechanisms in those parts of our rural areas where people simply refuse to come down from the mountain. Members know how people build on these mountain-tops to run away from the battles and the wars. They are now refusing to come down. We have developed motorbike systems to access those areas and purify their water right there. This is not genius on our part, but comes from the military outfit - we are told this is what they have used all these years. We have also adapted these to become mobile stretchers for patients who cannot be accessed by motorcars or ambulances, and also for taking medicines to those clinics that cannot otherwise be accessed by ambulance.

The Umzimkulu bus-route project focuses on local people taking responsibility for the maintenance of their own roads, so that the money which would otherwise have gone to consultants and contractors go directly into their pockets. Commensurate with that, their skills for maintaining their roads are improving and the taxi industry is beginning to have an easier time.

The Peddie-Ngqushwa pineapple project, which was started three years ago, has begun to impress all of us by the size and quality of the pineapples that it has produced in its first year of harvest. The Qumbu waste disposal site, which reduces the contact of children with contaminated environments, has not only reduced the stench, but has also protected our children from being exposed to diseases that are related to these waste dumps that have always been their playground. They can now find safer playgrounds away from unnecessary contamination.

There are other examples, Chair, but we do not want to bother you with these lists. In this way millions of rand go into the income of our own people and we are thus beginning, in one way or another, to contribute to the pushing back of the frontiers of poverty and starvation. This also sees the beginning of infrastructure coming into existence where before it never existed. We must concede, however, that unless we very strenuously develop local economic development strategies, all these projects are not going to be sustainable. We are pleased to announce that the Umzimkulu district municipality seems to lead the whole country in this respect. They have produced an LED which simply cannot be surpassed. It does not matter where the others come from, this LED is simply something to learn from.

We want to confirm that we have been consistent in the strengthening of our intergovernmental forum, something we reported on here two years ago already. We have expanded that to include not only our provincial departments, but also the national departments. We want to urge those who are still hesitant to participate in this initiative. They should really feel free because this is not about the turf, but about how best we can use the resources of our country. After all when everything is said and done, all of us are trying to solve the problems and transform the socioeconomic situation of the same communities.

We have not been relenting on trying to push back the backlogs of clinics and classrooms. On average, since 1997 we have been building an average of 850 classrooms per year, but believe me, we have not overcome this backlog. But we are not daunted. We believe that one day we shall do what other provinces take for granted, ie provide suitable classrooms for the children of our country. We are convinced that, together, we can do it.

The last word must go to the national Government, which has continued in the last few years to participate in peace initiatives on the African continent and, indeed, in the rest of the world. We cannot agree more with the President that the tensions and disagreements of world communities will best be solved by negotiations. We do not want to see bloodshed all over the streets of South Africa and the rest of the world. We think everything should be done to solve these problems through negotiations. We are absolutely confident that our own Government will smash all those negative elements of society who continue to plant bombs all over the countryside with the hope of intimidating our people. They will not intimidate our people, who are confident that their own Government - and, indeed, themselves - will be able to identify these elements and ferret them out.

We support one hundred per cent the view that the United Nations must seriously consider the integrity of other nations even when there are tensions among these nations. We should never be tempted to undermine the integrity of other people. And once we accept that, we would then accept the fact that it is only through negotiating as equals that we can solve our problems.

Mr M V MOOSA: Mr Chairperson, hon Chairperson of the NCOP, hon premiers and colleagues, increasing the economic prosperity for all occupies a focal point on our path to fully liberate our people from the legacy of the past.

A number of speakers today, including the hon the President, have underscored the integral nature of delivering our people from poverty and disempowerment. Indeed, as chairperson of economic affairs for the past three-and-a-half years, one has learned that although much progress has been made on broad-based economic empowerment and black economic empowerment, this still remains a major deliverable with many hurdles to cross.

To truly deliver freedom to our people, we have to deliver real and meaningful participation for them at the core of the economy. Black people are currently at best nibbling at the fringes of the economy.

I am sorry, but my pages are a little bit mixed up. There we are! [Interjections.] I did number them, but somehow they came loose. Excuse me, I have to fix this! Do I need to renumber them? Raju, did you take my pages? [Laughter.]

Mr N M RAJU: I would not sabotage you, you are my friend! Mr M V MOOSA: He is not sabotaging me! [Interjections.]

Chair, recent figures indicate that black ownership on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange has declined from 8% in 1998 to 2% in 2002. Ownership by black people has reversed substantially in our economy. Yet last Thursday the Business Day carried a headline to the effect that black ownership was higher than expected. The article went on to gleefully quote the present 2% figure. In this vein we congratulate Mr Tokyo Sexwale of Mvelapanda Holdings for being awarded the Top Company of the Year award, and Mr Patrice Motsepe for achieving the Businessperson of the Year award.

While this news generated excitement and pride in all of us, one has not been able to escape the strange Business Day headline, nine years after liberation, and the seeming pride with which they report the story that we have made significant progress in black economic empowerment at the level of 2%. The 6% decline was a direct result of old-style SPV empowerment models, the translated real ownership being located with finances and banks rather than with black shareholders.

Although the recent banking charter discussions are positive, most black business funding models are still driven by market-growth related models that result in a situation where, if the markets do not perform adequately, black shareholders lose their shareholding to the banks. In these instances it is the banking institutions that really have operational control.

This is a bizarre model because what it has been saying all along is that if one’s shareholder value increases over time, one may be able to take the ownership. But one, in fact, has no operational control to do anything about the shareholder value increasing.

So in 1998 when the markets were high, we had 8% value in the economy, but four years later, when the markets are down, we have 2%, and black businesspeople who bought shares have not been able to drive them up because they have had no control over those shares.

That model has not worked and, increasingly, it has become necessary for us to try and see if we cannot find new funding models. We cannot be lulled, therefore, by the Business Day headlines that the success of Mr Sexwale and Mr Patrice Motsepe leaves us with great progress and few challenges ahead. One such challenge, therefore, is to build funding models, particularly in the new initiatives in mining and so forth, that will deliver real operational control and black economic empowerment to our people.

I plan to leave Parliament, as many of the members know, and I will be spending much of my time in the coming months working with identified financial institutions and experts, including an international bank, to build new models that scrutinise these processes and truly create empowerment with operational control and involvement for black businesses.

The second major challenge that we face is an area about which I have been passionate for some time now, and that is the area of small and medium enterprises. The SMMEs are a driving force and a stimulus of our economy and, indeed, many economies throughout the world. Some economies are driven by SMMEs, so much so that they generate as much as 60% of the GDPs of those economies. While we ourselves have done much and the DTI’s support for SMMEs has increased, the scale of this support has not been sufficient.

I have another page that I need to find! [Interjections.]

The growth of the SMMEs sector falls far short of the levels that will make an impact on our economy and on the lives of our people as a whole. In short, only a revolutionary and systemic overhaul will deliver significant and rapid SMME growth and empowerment in the mainstream of our economy.

We have over the past two years been developing business plans, using both IT and other warm-blooded methods of interaction in both urban and rural areas to deliver such SMME growth. The interaction is to draw out large corporates, state-owned enterprises and Government structures, as well as transform their procurement and supply chain substantially so that SMME- driven initiatives can find access to those supply chains.

Some aspects of the DTI’s plan has already filtered some of these ideas into SMME strategies. But further market interventions, which are fundamental to make meaningful progress, are required outside of Government. This is also an area to which I will dedicate much of my time.

The question of being able to take SMMEs throughout the country and put them in a single national database in order to identify which SMMEs are supplying what services and products to whom, and in what localities or areas, is the only way to enable local authorities, provincial governments, government departments and large corporates to find these SMMEs, pick them up and take them into the supply chains. The substantial complaint at the moment, when one approaches big corporates, is: Where are the SMMEs? We cannot find them.'' And when one approaches SMMEs or goes into one's constituency work, one finds small businesses that are still saying:But what is Government doing for us?’’

The fact of the matter is that small business are businesses like any other business. They are driven by fundamentals and business principles. They want contracts, so that they can be successful. They do not have time to go out there looking for tenders, procurements and those kind of things. We need to find mechanisms for hand-holding them into those supply chains and processes.

In other words, when a small businessperson opens up his store on Monday morning he is concerned as to whether his five workers will come to work, get his production line moving, get enough stock onto the production line and make sure that the little factory, shop or business is moving. He does not have time to go onto the computer to read the Business Day and look for those kinds of things. This is the kind of interventions that are required. These are market-driven interventions and we as Government cannot do all that. We have to find market mechanisms in order to bring about these interventions.

Finally, in much of these thoughts and engagements, both here in the NCOP and outside, when I take my leave I remain proud to be one of the most dynamic political parties and movements in the world today, the ANC.

Sorry, I keep losing my pages. Mr Raju is messing me up! [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, if you could please wind up.

Mr M V MOOSA: I am busy doing that, Chairperson. As this burning desire translates into action, I remain forever linked to the complex fabric of parliamentary life that cloaks me like a warm blanket, but which is also as solid as the foundations we have built for a better life for all. [Applause.]

The PREMIER OF KWAZULU-NATAL (Mr L P H M Mtshali): Chairperson, His Excellency, the President of the Republic, hon delegates to this National Council of Provinces, today the President has given this House a comprehensive picture of the status of our nation and correctly highlighted the key elements on which its general welfare rests. These key elements are mainly centred around our infrastructure development, programme of poverty alleviation, plans for economic growth and sustainable development, and the continental and international framework within which our country is pursuing its growth, specifically in regard to Nepad.

A question has been posed regarding how provinces can help support the President and assist by being part of that picture. However, before I formulate a tentative answer to that question, I would like to focus on some aspects of this picture in order to point out that, perhaps, we ought to try to improve the picture before we call on provinces to contribute to it. Our country is locked into a great challenge which arises out of having to solve the rural-urban disparity. Rural development is essential to our country’s success. Yet, the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Strategy has made no allowance for any significant role to be played in the formulation of development by traditional authorities and traditional leadership which are widely recognised as essential elements in any plan of rural development.

While we speak of promoting poverty alleviation and rural development, the conditions are put in place for what could become a massive disintegration of the social fibre of rural communities because of the undermining of traditional leadership. I wish to quote what the President told us on 12 October 2000 when he spoke to us in this House and I quote him:

Agreement has been reached that our constitutional and legal order has, in fact, diminished the powers that traditional authorities exercised prior to the transition to democracy, and that we have to attend to this issue. Our Government is firmly committed to taking all necessary steps to ensure that the concerns of the traditional leaders are addressed.

That agreement was concretised on 30 November 2000 when a delegation of Ministers, who represented Cabinet and were appointed by the President, reached an agreement with the coalition of traditional leaders in terms of which traditional leaders waived their objection to the holding of elections in their areas.

That agreement contained a clear undertaking on the side of Government all of which has, thus far, been dishonoured. The most salient of those points could be stated as follows and I quote:

Relevant sections of Chapter 7 and 12 of the Constitution will be amended to provide for the powers and functions of traditional authorities in local government.

Two years later, not one single step has been taken in that direction. And, Government has published a draft White Paper on traditional leadership which indicates that there is no space whatsoever for traditional authorities to play any role whatsoever in the complex formula of rural development or local government. It goes so far as to state that traditional authorities ought to be dismantled.

At the same time, legislation has been put through Parliament to take away from traditional leadership the power to allocate, administer and determine the use of land in traditional communities. Irrespective of the ideological value which one may wish to ascribe to this complex operation of obliteration of traditional leadership, the fact remains that it will, in all probability, cause the disintegration of an existing model of societal organisation and open the doors to great poverty, social instability and disruptive conflicts.

It is very difficult for a province like mine to try to conduct poverty alleviation programmes while the central Government pulls the carpet out from under our feet in such a fashion. [Interjections.] As a province, we believe that infrastructure development must get ahead and we support any programme of sustainable development. However, infrastructure development must not be haphazard, but must be the product of a long-term vision of growth and development.

We need to determine what South Africa will look like in the year 2050. As a province, we would like to promote greater development in technological infrastructure and bring about a profound change in our use of land resources so that we can shift towards crops with higher added value which are more labour intensive and less capital intensive. We would also like to see greater development of infrastructure to support the growth of the tourism industry, amongst which should be the more expedited development of the King Shaka Airport.

However, it is difficult for us to pursue our long-term vision of growth when our country, as a whole, does not seem to have developed such a vision. We need an enabling framework and more autonomy at the provincial level. We need the country, as a whole, to make a greater commitment to invest in technology, agricultural and crop conversion, and tourism. Or alternatively, we need to have more powers, resources and autonomy for us to pursue this long-term path of growth which can capture the hidden economic potential of our province. We can no longer wait.

The situation in our country is rapidly deteriorating as proven by rising unemployment, inflation and crippling economic recession. We do not see a clear long-term strategy for economic growth being in place to address those issues. And, we fear that we are resorting to well-meant and well- applied fiscal and financial discipline to deal with all macroeconomic issues when, in fact, we should go beyond that.

We should not only ask ourselves what we should do to run the state properly and avoid impairing economic growth. We should have a strategy to stimulate economic growth to the maximum extent possible, at the provincial level. We could do it if we had more powers and autonomy in respect of economic matters. Somebody somewhere must take the initiative because our people are suffering. They need jobs more than anything else. That is the main thing that we have not been able to deliver.

We must serve the interests of our people above that of any ideological imperative. I am very concerned about how we relate the interests of our people to Nepad. The failure to embrace, fully support and advocate the need for good governance and peer review as essential elements of Nepad can make Nepad dead on arrival. There cannot be any long-term development without strong and ever-growing democracy.

The promotion of democracy in Africa must be the core of Nepad. That means that we must have the courage to call tyrants by name and denounce corruption, poor governance and malfeasance in office anywhere in Africa. We can no longer deal with African countries by applying standards to assess their democracy, freedom and liberty which are lower than those which we employ in respect of our own country. It is a condescending attitude which will find no place in the comity of African countries.

In the end, if Nepad is dead on arrival, because of Africa’s self-inflicted injuries, our people will suffer. Our country is already financing the disaster into which Zimbabwe has fallen because of its lack of democracy and its breakaway from the rule of law and the community of civilised nations. We are giving electricity to Zimbabwe at a much lower price than we sell it to our own people. [Interjections.] We are carrying huge and unpaid debts of Zimbabwe. We are confronted now with the need of providing massive financial support to the people of Zimbabwe, including free distribution of maize in order to avoid famine. Undoubtedly, we need to do that and I am in total support of it. But, we must not close our eyes to the causes. It is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster which stems out of those roots of tyranny, corruption and oppression which Nepad must be committed to eradicate if we are, indeed, to give any credence to our notion of any type of African Renaissance.

We must also consider, carefully, where our country should stand in the community of nations. We are a civilised country which wants to progress and prosper. We are genuinely committed to democracy. We believe that only through democracy will long-term development be sustainable and achievable. Internationally, our role should be that of promoting sustainable development through the promotion of democracy. Those two things go together. One remains puzzled when suggestions are made that we should befriend regimes which oppress their people and neighbours. In the end, our entire country receives the stigma of the pariah countries with which we are associated or defend.

My province is committed to attracting foreign investment. [Interjections.] We need to shift emphasis from foreign investment to foreign investors and realise that foreign investors are citizens of civilised, prosperous and progressive countries who wish to find, in South Africa, an ally and a friend committed to following the same path which brought their countries to their prosperity. If we are serious about attracting foreign investment, we need to make some major corrections to our foreign policy. [Interjections.] Even a premier, such as I am, ends up having to be confronted with our position on Iraq when we sit with foreign investors and try to reassure them that KwaZulu-Natal is a safe place for them to make long-term investment.

We must also be genuinely committed to promoting democracy within South Africa. Democracy is never achieved and we should not fall prey to the illusion of believing that we are above the temptation of impairing the growth of democracy merely because we are the generation which delivered liberation and democracy to South Africa. I am a premier who serves on the strength of a mandate received from the electorate which certain people are trying to change by means of legislation rather than elections. [Interjections.] [Applause.] I do not know whether I will be participating in this debate in the same capacity next year. I only know that if the dark clouds of a one-party state, achieved not through the ballot box but imposed through tampering with the Constitution, descend upon South Africa, we might be witnessing with impotence the commencement of a long and dark season of democratic involution. The stagnation of democracy will spell the stagnation of development. [Interjections.] That is an axiom to which there is overwhelming evidence throughout our continent and in the world. We stand on the edge of a slippery downhill path towards a mixture of increased economic recession, unemployment, democratic stagnation and a possible one-party state. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!

The PREMIER: Chairperson, we must turn that around here and now, not for our sake but for the sake of the people we serve. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

The PREMIER OF GAUTENG (Mr M S Shilowa): Chairperson, Premier Mtshali’s speech will, indeed, be a hard act to follow! [Laughter.] Chairperson, President of the Republic, hon members, I have with me a speech which is available for distribution, so I am not going to read it, but rather speak to it. Let me start by saying, some people were asking me what goodies are in the little bags that we have been giving out. There are no goodies in them, it is mainly the Gauteng women’s directory. The programme focused on children, our mid-term report and the annual report. We thought we should make that available as part of our commitment to peer review that was being spoken about. [Applause.]

I must say that our province has no difficulty in driving economic activity, because our approach is not to wait for national Government to develop a plan of action for economic activity in the province. We sit down and look at the challenges facing Gauteng, because no province is the same. This being our challenge, what is it that we need to do to deal with those particular issues? We look at the integrated development plans of local government and out of that approach the relevant Ministries and say, ``As a province we think the focus must be IT; we think the focus must be on issues of economic development in terms of tourism and so forth. These are the areas around which we seek support.’’

So while my colleague from KwaZulu-Natal may have difficulty working with national Government on economic development, we have no such difficulty. That is because we take the lead, rather than waiting for national Government. [Applause.] Similarly, we have never taken the view that Nepad is everything to everybody and that it alone will solve all our problems. We take a view that says Nepad is but the instrument, important as it is, for the broader African Renaissance.

I think part of the difficulty has been that people refuse to locate the importance of Nepad within the broader framework of the African Union, which is led by our President. I think we must be able to identify the issues for Nepad, but Nepad has to be located within the broader context of the African Renaissance and the African Union if it is going to make any sense for the people of our country. If we treat Nepad as a stand-alone programme, we are more likely to lose focus on the broader challenges facing our continent.

In less than two years’ time it will be the end of the current term of Government and the end of the first decade of freedom and democracy in our country. As we move closer to that time, we must answer the critical question which the President posed, and that is whether we are succeeding in our efforts to build a democratic, united nation and uplift the quality of all our people.

We have outlined, in the mid-term report that I was speaking about, the things we have done. What I am indicating is that we can really succeed working with national Government and local government, without waiting for them. We took a decision as a province that we are going to launch a programme called Zivuseni, a programme focused at how we can improve social infrastructure. That programme is succeeding and will succeed even further. Of course, we need more assistance and more partnerships from local and national governments, but we have no difficulty in implementing it. Indeed, our people are beginning to benefit from those particular programmes.

I want to just indicate to the President that, based on that programme, to date 114 projects have been initiated throughout our province, comprising 53 schools, 31 clinics, 13 hospitals, 10 waste buy-back centres, six once- off clean air projects and one furniture restoration project. But again we have taken another different step in that in our province we are going to ensure that most of our infrastructure work is labour-intensive. We have thus introduced a 60% quota requirement on all our projects, because of our commitment to unemployment and poverty alleviation.

Hence, we cannot go to the President and complain about what he is doing at national level. We are more likely to come to the President and say, ``We have taken these routes and we want your support.’’ We have never found his Government to be unwilling to support such initiatives. Sometimes I think …

… uStof uza kuyazi le nto - kufanele sisinqande ingenzeki le nto ithethwa eBhayibhileni ithi abantu banikezwa italente waza omnye wayibeka nje apha phantsi, kwaza kwathi xa zifunwa waphendula wathi ``Thixo bendikwazi ukuba unjani. Bendisazi ukuba uza kubuya uyifune le talente. Yiyo loo nto ke ndiyibeke apha phantsi ukuze uthi xa uyifuna ndikunike. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[… Rev Stofile will know this - we must stop ourselves and not do what is said in the Bible, where it is said that people were given talents. One of them just hid it in a hole in the ground. Then, when the talents were asked for, he responded by saying, ``Master, I knew that you are a hard man, haRvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. So I was afraid, and went out and hid your talents in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you’’.]

We cannot do that. We must go out and say, ``Nazi iitalente siziphiwe. Sizalisa kanjani na … [Here are talents given to us. How are we going to use them profitably … ] … on those particular issues?’’ And that is our approach as a province. [Applause.]

Let me also tell the President that on the question of understanding the important role that Nepad is playing, we are also not waiting for him. As I speak MEC Moleketi is in Nigeria to explore economic co-operation between our province and our Nigerian counterparts. He is accompanied by Gauteng Economic Development Agency head, Charles Jonker, and a group of businesspeople from the ITC, property development and tourism sectors. I have no doubt that if we were to wait for the President, because of his heavy schedule we would never be able to take those businesspeople out there to explore.

Let me also say something about the important role of the NCOP. I really want to raise this issue, particularly with regard to the mandate given to the hon Van Schalkwyk, having been elected rotating Chairperson of the NCOP. Our view as a province is that one of the challenges facing the NCOP is how to better co-ordinate the work between the three spheres of Government and the legislatures. We need to find new ways that will enable provinces to influence programming and to link provincial whips to provincial programmes. I heard the Chief Whip speaking about how they promote provincial week and really go out of their way to focus on that. I agree with that.

But we find it very difficult as a province to work, because we do not want to have our NCOP delegates arriving at the province and saying, This is our programme.'' They are not independent from the provincial legislature. We want them to say,We are back, what is the programme? We would then say to them, ``This is our focus week and these are our problems, ngenani entsimini.’’ We would then work out the solutions with them. We think this is something which the NCOP really needs to work out with us, because in that way we are more likely to further strengthen co-operation than to have the province and the NCOP working in two different directions.

We want to tell the President that we remain committed to dealing with issues of job creation. We are aware that some of the key projects that we are engaging in are really long-term projects. Hence, when I was speaking about the work we do around labour intensity, I intimated that since 1999 we have been able to create, on average, 20 000 jobs per annum through our infrastructure-development programme. This year the number has increased dramatically, since we have introduced the rule that I was speaking about. Again, in that way we have been able to say that we will not wait, we are going to look at how we can move forward.

I conclude by saying the following. The fact that we indicate these initiatives and these successes does not in any way mean that there are no challenges in our province. The challenges remain immense. We know that for many of our people life continues to remain a struggle in terms of unemployment, poverty and so forth. But we also know that they have trust in the leadership they have put in place; that this leadership is committed to dealing with issues of poverty and unemployment; and that working together with them, we can continue to push back the frontiers of poverty. [Applause.]

Mr N M RAJU: Chairperson, hon President, hon premiers, hon special delegates and hon collegues, I commence my speech with the words of Rabindranath Togore, one of India’s and the world’s finest poets and philosophers:

Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high Where knowledge is free Where the world has not been broken up into fragments By narrow domestic walls Where words come out from the depth of truth Where tireless striving stretches its arms towards perfection Where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way Into the dreary desert sand of dead habit Where the mind is led forward by thee Into ever-widening thought and action Into that heaven of freedom, my Father, let my country awake.

I recall how elated I felt, as a young student at high school, when Ghana became the first country in Africa to get its independence, when Kwame Nkrumah broke the shackles of British colonialist power. Not even the independence of India a decade earlier had brought me such joy and elation. As an African, even as a young boy, I felt a sense of indescribable joy at the birth of Ghana.

Ghana’s epochal independence started a series of African states declaring independence. In accordance with the rightful theory, Nigeria, Algeria, Kenya, Uganda, Tanzania, Zambia and a host of African states opted for independence. But what has this independence meant to the African people on the African continent?

Unfortunately, political independence did not equate with economic independence. Africa still remains subservient to its previous masters. It remains the reservoir of raw materials and mineral resources to be exploited by the former overlords.

The race that Kwame Nkrumah had begun is far from over. In a sense, the baton is now in your hands. Economic self-sufficiency in Africa beckons over the horizon and the President has identified the means to arrive at the destination, the means to get Africa off its knees and to get Africa to stand tall, and that means is Nepad.

Someone described Nepad as a cocktail of African empowerment and consciousness, as well as the promotion of business and prosperity on the African continent. Nepad has attained its own legitimacy and credibility. The hon the President himself, the South African leader and chairman of the non-aligned member states of the African Union, adds to its stature. South Africa has recently been on a crusade to restore peace and democracy in Burundi and the DRC, and this scores favourably for South Africa’s moral integrity and reputation.

The African Union and Nepad may be the modern version of Africa’s social contract. It is plausible that Africa’s contract commits it to principles of democracy, the rule of law and strong respect for human rights. But many times its leaders have made pledges they failed to uphold. Kenyan Peter Anyanginyongo, a professor of political science, captures it eloquently when he states:

Quite often those who are involved in practical politics fail to see the future. They fail to make the future according to what they perceive ought to be done. Perhaps that is why history is so full of skeletons of major mistakes, made by political leaders or would-be makers of history.

This is where Africa’s peer review mechanism becomes essential. The peer review mechanism has become the centre of controversy over whether it will include issues of political governance or be restricted to economic and co- operative governance matters.

The hon the President contends that the decision to make the AU responsible rather than Nepad was that under the Constitutive Act of the Union member states that fail to comply with the decisions of the AU may be subject to sanctions. It would be fundamentally wrong to submit obligations to a voluntary peer review system. The hon the President’s contention was, of course, intended to hit the critics of the peer review mechanism for a six.

On the foreign affairs front, it is the considered opinion of my party that South Africa should wait for the lifting of international sanctions against Iraq and its acceptance into the international family of nations before we enter into constructive diplomatic dialogue with that country. My party requests that the hon the President decline the invitation to Iraq as a guest of President Saddam Hussein. [Interjections.]

South Africa must persuade Iraq to comply with the UN resolutions and provide unhindered access to nuclear weapons inspectors. The revised US resolution demanded unfettered access to sites suspected of being used to develop weapons of mass destruction, ie biological and/or nuclear weapons. The inevitable consequence of defiance by Iraq to accede to inspections would, of course, be war, which should be averted at all costs.

Steven Morrison, a former state department official in the Clinton administration and director of the Africa Programme at the Centre for Strategic and Internal Studies in Washington DC, said South Africa could pay a high diplomatic price for what he described as a treacherous path of engagement with Iraq. Morrison said South Africa risks losing its diplomatic credibility, as well as the benefits of its relationship with the US. [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: Who wrote that speech? [Laughter.]

Mr N M RAJU: My party concurs with Steven Morrison.

If I may retort, we write our own speeches: we do not get them from above. [Laughter.]

The DP concurs with Steven Morrison and fears that any open fraternisation with Saddam Hussein at this juncture would sound the death knell of relations with the US administration. [Interjections.]

In conclusion, we applaud the President’s recent call for the containment of corruption and fraud among public servants. Nothing can be more … [Time expired.] [Interjections.]

Cllr N DUBE (Salga): Chairperson, Mr President, hon members of the NCOP and hon premiers present here today, let me start by apologising on behalf of the Chairperson of Salga, who could not be here because of another commitment in Johannesburg at our NGC.

Our NGC takes place at a point where, two years in the new system of local government, we now at least have some basis on which to critically assess the successes, failures and challenges that have beset local government. Therefore we would like to use these lessons to pave the way forward, to benefit our communities.

Our NGC takes place at a time of policy review and reflection, whereby key initiatives such as amendments to section 39 of the Constitution and the devolution of powers and functions from other spheres of government are increasingly put on the spotlight. It also comes at a time when organised local government is undergoing radical transformation and restructuring, in order for it to be able to rise to the challenges posed by the enormity of its mandate.

We are here today and have come as leaders from communities with similar interests. But together as a collective we believe that we have come here today to dovetail our actions within the broader framework of national priorities; priorities that emphasise the improvement in the quality of the lives for all our people. An agenda has been set to clearly demonstrate that our people come first, as a test of our Government’s approach on dealing with these issues on a daily basis.

Last year the Presidential Co-ordinating Committee, championed by our President, identified a number of key objectives aimed at strengthening the local government sector, namely building a strong local government sphere and enhancing its status within a stable co-operative government framework. The important question is, how far have we gone, not just as local government, but also as other spheres of government and social actors in achieving these objectives?

As we are having our NGC, these are some of the issues that we are dealing with in order to be able to pave a way forward. A number of achievements have been cited by a number of speakers here today, some of them, within the local government sphere, being a smooth transition free of major service disruptions.

Millions of our people in households now have access to basic water services. Millions of our people have houses or some of the houses are still are under construction. We can honestly say that our leaders and our people have rolled up their sleeves.

In terms of local economic development, it is commonly accepted that the transition process outcome was fundamentally transformed to ensure that local government is not just a service-orientated administration, but is also developmentally focused and positioned to grow the local economy. We therefore see ourselves as agents for economic development, and that is a move beyond the limited paradigm of local economic development that does not result in large-scale sustainable employment as part of our effort to create employment for the mass of our people.

The implication of the above is that municipalities are positioning themselves in relation to other spheres of government and therefore need increased support and co-operation from, as well as co-ordination with, the national and provincial spheres of government in order to have a sustainable growth of the local and regional economies.

It is therefore vital that the key question for all municipalities in our country be, ``How best do we grow and increase our areas of gross geographic products?’’ The answer to this question has been found in debates of a developmental nature.

There has been some debate on whether we should be focusing on local economic development or growth-led economic development strategies. Does the growing importance of our cities regarding the national GDP and the impact of urban growth on the rural hinterland suggest a shift from the rural to the urban areas, or are these some of the issues that we have not been grappling with?

The growing concentration of economic activity in the urban areas has resulted in an increasing concentration of the world’s population in cities and towns, as people migrate from rural areas looking for jobs and opportunities. It is said that half of our population now lives in urban areas. At the same time we are witnessing a growing urbanisation that has not only depleted the rural skills base, but has also led to increasing differentials between the rich and the poor, resulting in growing levels of urban poverty and joblessness.

We want to say here that we are in the process of developing effective strategies to deal with urbanisation within our country’s context of an increasingly blurred distinction between urban and rural economies and a population that has thrown into sharp focus the importance of understanding the exact nature of urban-rural linkages within a holistic system of economic production.

In the IDPs the necessity for all spheres of local government to ensure that there is consensus aimed at adding value to service delivery is more crucial than ever before. We need to integrate all our plans into one so as to maximise our delivery, using the IDPs as key strategic planning instruments for the Government.

We have noted the comments made regarding the lessons that the President mentioned. As a result of that, we are suggesting that there be three- sphere IDP forums which strive to involve everybody in the conceptualisation processes and joint implementation of integrated development plans, thereby avoiding the current disjuncture in priority planning and implementation.

We need to establish vertical and horizontal links, in order to strengthen the collective institutions of Government and the holistic concept of co- operative governance. The key to success of any intergovernmental co- operation, we believe, depends on the dynamic flow of information, as well as the merging and focusing of this information to value-added decision- making which will enhance delivery at the end of the day. We note here the participation and co-operation of some of the provinces, which have assisted local government in terms of participating in the delivery process.

On our participation in intergovernmental relations, Salga has established a commission which is looking at various options of our participation on intergovernmental forums, particularly in the NCOP. The question is, how do we ensure that we as elected councillors at the local level balance our participation in these forums?

We are seriously scrutinising our effectiveness and participation in these structures. The questions that we are asking is, are we really making any impact? Are we being taken seriously in these structures? If not, why not? Are we as Salga representatives consistent? Are we well prepared and capacitated to fulfil some of these challenges?

I would like to see … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr K D S DURR: Chairman, President, yesterday Ronald Noble, the secretary- general of Interpol in Paris, gave a chilling warning, and I quote:

Something worrying is going on. All intelligence experts are agreed that al-Qaeda is preparing a major terrorist operation. The field of battle now stretches to all countries and mobilises several terrorist groups.

This was a confirmed by intelligence experts around the world. Suddenly the world is becoming menacing and dangerous. These trends affect us vitally. Since September 11, we have over the past year - and in the past week in particular - seen a political shift of major proportions that influences the economy of our country directly, including our provinces. It will also shape all our relationships and our actions. I refer to the mid-term elections in the US in relation to events I started off talking about.

The President will have to deal with this reality in his time. I appreciate the fact that the President travels so much, accepts so much responsibility and is so ambitious for his country and continent. We share this ambition with the President. The man in charge of the presidency in the US, Mr Bush, has a majority in the Senate and Congress. A man who was an accidental president has suddenly become a monumental president in the mould of Eisenhower and Roosevelt, the only people to have enjoyed this level of support in the history of that country. President Bush will be in office for the next six years. His term of office will run parallel to that of our President, ie their terms will run in tandem. If he fails, we all lose; if he succeeds, we all win. We only need to look at the United Nations resolution passed on Iraq last week to see his stamp of authority. As the American Enterprise Institute said recently, and I quote:

Anyone who fools themselves into thinking that the road has a different ending than the road that leads to a regime change in Iraq, is sadly mistaken.

I am not arguing the merits, I am just arguing the facts. Bush knows the reality that without globalisation, there can be little human progress and without global peace and order, there can be no globalisation. These two issues are inextricably linked and we are part of it. It includes Nepad, their capacity to help and the capacity of the world not to be crowded out by these matters of security.

America is here to stay and our ability to grasp this fact will determine our progress. We have to avoid giving mixed signals and come out clearly on the side of the angels. Fortunately, the President met Mr Bush while he was still Governor of Texas and made an investment in the relationship. We wish to thank the President for this as it was far-sighted to have done that.

Fortunately, our constitutional values are in accord with those of Mr Bush and the world consensus. Let us stand squarely behind the great, unfolding struggle for peace, order and prosperity. In our country, let us stand united against terror. In the world let us stand united in pursuit of peace.

I am not sure whether the President has read Mr Bush’s biography. If he has not I can lend it to him. [Laughter.] I have just finished reading it. It is something we should read to have insight into the man. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Durr, I am afraid your time has expired.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Chairperson, hon President, premiers, hon members the Salga delegation, I wish to thank you for giving me the opportunity to participate in this debate.

Let me first and foremost extend an apology on behalf of our premier, who is in London on an official visit. I also wish to extend an apology on behalf of the MEC in the Office of the Premier, who was supposed to be here but is engaged with other official duties. They have requested me to represent the province in this debate.

I also wish to congratulate the hon Mr Van Schalkwyk on his election as rotating Chairperson, as well as the hon Mr Mushwana, who has now been appointed to the position of Public Protector by the President.

This debate in the NCOP brings us close to the end of a highly productive year in which we as public representatives in various spheres of Government have endeavoured to serve the people of our country.

At the outset, I wish to associate the government of the Northern Province with the congratulations and gratitude expressed to the members of the NCOP by the hon the President and other speakers in this debate. This body has indeed become an indispensable element of our democratic system and a vital link between national Government and the respective provinces.

We very recently reached an important milestone in the development of our country when we celebrated the first 100 months of our democratic South Africa, which is governed under a system where the will of the people is paramount. By now the dark days of repression, minority rule and institutionalised racism have turned into a fading memory.

Unfortunately, there are still fringe elements within our society who are under the mistaken impression that they can resurrect a failed and discredited system of apartheid and take us back to the darkest period of our country’s history. We as public representatives want to tell these deluded individuals that they will never be able to shake the foundations of our democracy or democratic system, nor will they cause the Government to stray from this chosen direction towards peace and progress for all the people of our country.

It is not only the Government of the day using the instruments at its disposal in the criminal justice system who will hunt these scoundrels down and punish them to the fullest extent of the law, but also an overwhelming majority of our population, both black and white, both urban and rural, who will not be led astray by false ideologies or pie-in-the-sky promises.

The facts speak for themselves and the reality of South Africa is that we live in a vastly better country than we did eight years ago, under the very capable and progressive leadership of our President, his Cabinet and our ruling party. In the international sphere, we are among the leading nations of the world and we are welcomed with open arms at various multinational forums. In the UN, the AU, the Commonwealth and the Non-aligned Movement, the leadership role of South Africa is widely acknowledged and highly praised.

As one of the driving forces behind Nepad, we will work in co-operation with our fellow countries on the continent to make this century one of lasting progress and prosperity for the children of our soil. But it is within our country that we have seen a most remarkable turnaround. Where once there was despair, there is now hope. Where once our people lived as enemies and adversaries, there are encouraging signs of the growth of a new South Africanism. This new spirit of unity will never be derailed by lunatics and racists.

At the beginning of the year, our President announced, amongst other things, two visionary initiatives to be the central themes of our national efforts in the year 2002. The one was the Letsema Campaign, with its strong emphasis on community participation and voluntary service on behalf of the broader community. This is not an initiative that will stop at the end of this year. It should rather become an integral part of our national identity, where each and every one of us will continue to seek opportunities to work towards the greater good of society. As leaders of our country, we must continue to foster the spirit of volunteerism and community service.

The other major theme of 2002 was again emphasised by the President here today, and that is our all-out battle against poverty and want. It is an undisputed fact that most of the serious developmental challenges facing our country, such as rural development, the battle against disease and illness, the battle against illiteracy and the battle against gender empowerment can eventually be tracked back to the root problem of poverty.

In Limpopo we have taken determined steps to address the challenge of poverty. We are of the firm opinion that the success of our national efforts will be measured by the progress we are making in reducing poverty in rural areas. As a provincial government, we are taking this issue very seriously, and the reduction and eventual eradication of poverty has become a primary focus area of our vision to make Limpopo viable and self- sufficient by the year 2020.

Members of this House maybe know that Limpopo is one of the provinces which have taken over a number of former homeland governments. It has taken over the former Lebowa, Gazankulu and Venda, as well as parts of the northern Transvaal which were white areas in the olden days. This area is faced with great poverty like all the other provinces in the country, but we are endeavouring to do our best as a province to get people involved in fighting poverty and doing things for themselves.

To enable us to get a comprehensive picture of the challenges facing us, we have initiated thorough research to look at the profile of poverty in the province and the impact that current alleviation programmes have. Out of this, we have managed to have a greater understanding of the extent of the problem, as well as deep conviction that we will make headway in our effort to roll back the frontiers of deprivation if we follow an integrated and holistic approach.

The days of different spheres of government or a variety of agencies each trying to make an impact in their own separate ways are clearly over. We need a co-ordinated and consistent approach that can bring together the skills and resources of each agency in a clear and coherent manner.

To achieve this, the executive council of Limpopo took a number of important decisions during the course of the past few months. These include the creation of an executive council committee on poverty alleviation and an establishment of a provincial task team to ensure that the issues continue to receive attention at the highest level. At the operational level, we are establishing a poverty programme management committee composed of departmental heads, as well as poverty programme management units with a dedicated staff component and clear and tangible goals and targets.

We are of the firm opinion that district and local governments can be primary vehicles for the implementation of poverty alleviation programmes. For this reason we are working very closely with municipalities to ensure that local economic development programmes are drafted and implemented. We have also made considerable progress with the implementation of national strategies such as the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme and the Community-based Public Works Programme.

However, in the final analysis we believe that our goals of poverty reduction and eradication will only be reached through the concerted efforts of the broader community. To achieve this, we are working to build a creative partnership with the private sector, faith-based organisations, traditional leadership and community structures to form one united front against poverty and deprivation.

As a province we have identified the areas of tourism, agriculture and mining as major focus areas of our provincial growth and development strategy. As we speak, the Premier of Limpopo, Adv Ngoaka Ramatlhodi, is in London to attend an international exhibition where our province is being marketed extensively. Next week a senior delegation of our province will be visiting the Republic of India to look at opportunities for co-operation in the fields of agriculture, education and information technology. We are optimistic about the future of our province, our country and our continent.

In the coming days, the eyes of the international community will be firmly focused on Limpopo as one of the most important scientific events in recent memory takes place in the Northern tip of our province. Scientists and astronomers from across the world await the coming solar eclipse with great expectations, in the belief that it will provide answers to searching questions about the origins of our universe. From a marketing and tourism perspective this presents us with a greatly unique opportunity to showcase our province, our scenic splendour, our very rich cultural heritage and our friendly and generous people to a wide audience.

In conclusion, I trust that the Chairperson, the hon the President and all the hon members of this House will use this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to visit Limpopo. I know that the President does visit the province often, and I wish to ask other members to join him. [Interjections.]

Limpopo is a loving province. It is a province of peace. Members should go there, and they will find all sorts of things that one does not find in other parts of the world. In the foreseeable future this province will also be a province of progress and prosperity. [Applause.]

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Mr Chairperson, hon President, premiers and colleagues, as the language ombudsman of the New NP, I urge the hon the President to deal harshly with the so-called Afrikaans organisations and/or individuals who use the promotion of the Afrikaans language to promote their own hidden agendas, be it violence or seeking excuses for violence, party-political positioning or personal survival. They do not represent the Afrikaans community, which consists of approximately 3 million coloured, 3 million white and 600 000 black Afrikaans speakers.

I also urge the hon the President not to remove multilingualism from the priority list of Government. Multilingualism cannot compete with the eradication of poverty, the fighting of crime or the combating of HIV/Aids. But multilingualism should also be at the core or the heart of each of the above-mentioned Government priorities. To use the hon the President’s own language, it is not a luxury. It is a necessity for empowerment.

Government cannot succeed in eradicating poverty for as long as people are informed about projects, apply for project finance or for jobs in their second or third language. Government cannot succeed in fighting crime by addressing this issue in people’s second or third language. Government cannot succeed in explaining safe sex and the devastating effects of HIV/Aids in a person’s second or third language. Nepad will not succeed if the language diversity in Africa is ignored. Ninety percent or more members in this Parliament use English as their second or third language, and yet we have to deliberate in committees on behalf of South Africans in our second or third language.

It is true that the direct price of professional interpreting and translation services is high. But we must calculate the price South Africa is paying for monolingualism. We must calculate the indirect costs. It is general knowledge that there is a direct link between, on the one hand, mother-tongue education in the first four to seven years of a child’s school career, and on the other, matric and tertiary results.

What is the price we are paying for the far too low pass rate at matric and university level? The way multilingualism is dealt with in the higher education policy is, at the moment, an obstacle and needs to be revisited. To ignore Afrikaans and indigenous languages of South Africa in practice, is too expensive to tolerate any longer.

We are anxiously awaiting the national language framework to bring language security in South Africa. In the meantime, the New NP is tabling private members’ legislative proposals in all the provinces to bring about multilingualism, and I hope that the premiers present will help to speed up this process.

We have to stop people from window dressing and get them committed to multilingualism. It starts with the executive, the legislatures, the municipalities and Parliament. We need to set the example, and in this House our Chairperson does it. The hon Shilowa did it when he got fired up in his speech just now! [Laughter.]

Afrikaans is the language which I inherited from my forefathers and, to me, is the the most beautiful language in the world. I am sure that the hon the President feels exactly the same about isiXhosa, and the other members about their own Tshivenda, isiZulu, Xitsonga, Setswana or whatever. This is because if I am not proud of what is mine, of what I have inherited, nobody can trust me or respect me for what I am, and I cannot expect them to allow me to promote what is theirs.

Today I am addressing the hon the President in my second language, out of respect for him. If the hon the President was impressed with what I said and the way I said it, can he imagine what it would have been like if I said it in Afrikaans? [Laughter.] May I say to the hon the President: Let us build a really prosperous nation by, together, promoting and acknowledging all our languages. ke xarra ke. [Unity in diversity] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, I have been informed that Mr Bhengu will not participate, so I will call upon the hon Mrs Lubidla.

Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, hon President of the Republic of South Africa, premiers, speakers and hon members, it is a rare honour for me personally to address a distinguished audience of South African leaders such as yourselves.

The presence of President Mbeki here today is a reflection of the commitment of the President himself and of the Government to the principle of co-operative governance. It is an indication of the importance which the President attaches to the positive role that is being played by the NCOP in this process of co-operative governance. The constitutional recognition of local government as a sphere of government has significantly enhanced its status and given it a new, dynamic role in the service delivery process.

In particular, local government has been assigned a leading role in relation to poverty alleviation, local economic development and the empowerment of communities. To successfully lead this campaign against poverty, local government will have to equip itself by developing innovatives responses to the challenges posed by poverty and economic underdevelopment.

One of the ways in which local government will be able to successfully confront the challenges of poverty and underdevelopment is through an integrated development planning approach. Central to this approach is the development of integrated development plans, ie the IDPs, by municipalities. Integrated development plans are essential tools through which the duplication and waste of valuable resources that characterised apartheid planning can be limited. It enables municipalities together to pool scarce local resources to address the most important needs of local communities.

IDPs also help to speed up delivery. They enable local governments to identify the least serviced and most impoverished areas, and point at where municipal funds should be spent. Most importantly, IDPs provide a unique opportunity for government at all three spheres, communities and business to work together and agree on mechanisms and resources required to meet the needs of local communities in a sustainable way.

The existence of sound financial, institutional and administrative systems at local government level is a precondition for effective integrated development planning. The clumsy and unco-ordinated financial, institutional and administrative support systems for local government which we inherited from apartheid have been one of the main problems inhibiting the effective functioning of new municipalities. This, in turn, impacts negatively on the ability of municipalities to develop their IDPs.

The development of effective IDPs is of genuine concern to the NCOP because we believe that, without it, swift development at local government level may be severely retarded and effective service delivery compromised. That is why the NCOP decided, as part of its provincial visits, to address a specific set of questions to city and district councils. The purpose of these questions was to ascertain the progress that had been made in terms of the development, adoption and implementation of the IDPs.

Firstly, we sought to determine the kind of relationship that exists between city and district councils to develop IDPs. Of particular concern to us is the structural human resources and financial problems which this relationship experiences. Secondly, we also tried to determine what role provincial government was playing in assisting with the development of IDPs, and whether this was adequate.

Thirdly, we tried to determine the level of public participation in the formulation of IDPs, as well as to identify the kind of capacity problems which councils experience in developing and adopting their IDPs. Finally, we also tried to establish whether there are any linkages and what those linkages are between IDPs and council budgets.

We are currently assembling, comparing and systematically arranging this information with a view to debating the issue in this Chamber next year. It would be unfair of me not to acknowledge the contribution which national Government has made in making our new model of local government both functional and sustainable. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Madam Chair, hon President, hon premiers, comrades and colleagues, the co-operation that the ANC and the New NP have is very different from the dead alliance. We are in co-operation because we have one thing common that we believe in, and that is that the Western Cape is not a homeland or an island. [Interjections.]

Secondly, the difference is that this is not a marriage made in heaven, but a co-operation built on clear objectives. The main objective of this co- operation is to build the nation and unite the people of the province and the entire country.

Mhlalingaphambili, ngaphambili eli Phondo lalibekelwe abantu abamhlophe nabebala kuphela. Mhlawumbi ke ezingqondweni zabo bantu babengazange bayive okanye bayifunde indawo ephaya kuMqulu weNkululeko ethi, ``South Africa belongs to all who live in it.’’ Kwiingqondo zabambalwa ke zazingekhe zingene iingcamango ezinjalo. Ngoku nabantu beli Phondo bayaziva ukuba nowabo umlomo oyi-ANC uyavakala apha elulawulweni. Ukuba ungajonga iindlela oomasipala abasebenza ngazo, kwithutyana nje elifutshane ungaqaphela ukuba ukho umahluko phakathi komasipala wangaphambili kunye nalo ubukhokelwa nguMorkel, kwindlela ababehlala ngayo abantu. Abantu babehlala ngokwabantu, hayi ngokobuhlanga. Kambe wathi akuba negunya lokuphatha uMorkel wabumisa ngeenyawo ubuhlanga. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Chairperson, this province was reserved for white and coloured people only. Perhaps such people had never heard of the clause in the Freedom Charter that goes: “South Africa belongs to all who live in it.” Very few could have had such an idea.

Now the people of the province feel that their voice, the ANC, can be heard within the government of the province. If you look closely at the history of local government, you will realise that within a short space of time after Morkel came on the scene, there was a drastic change in the way local government was run. People used to live as human beings, not according to their race. However, when Morkel took over power there was a resurgence of racism.]

The window period brought about something that has always been wanted by many South Africans. Councillors from the province have broken loose from the chains of the dying alliance. It is now in a very unstable condition. We made it worse when even the last district municipality on the west coast realised that in order for the people of this country to be united, they must leave le nqwelo ixinge eludakeni, and that is very true. They know that! [Laughter.]

Xa i-DA izika mayizike nabo bangqondo zabo zingakwaziyo ukuzicingela - ndinqena nje ukubiza amagama abantu apha eNdlwini - abo bantu bangqondo zabo zicingelwa ngumntu onenjongo enye … (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[When the DA goes down, it must go down with those people who cannot think for themselves - I’m reluctant to name names in this House - those people who are led by a person with a one-track mind … ]

Mrs A M VERSFELD: Chairperson, on a point of order: This member has been deliberately misleading the House with information …

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! That is not a point of order, hon member.

Nksz N D NTWANAMBI: Mhlalingaphambili, bendisathi ngabantu abangakwazi kuzicingela ngeengqondo zabo, abacingelwa ngumntu omnye nonenjongo enye yokuchasana noRhulumente oku kweyeza likagqirha - kusasa, emini, ngokuhlwa. Ayikho enye into ayenzayo, oko ingqondo yakhe isenza into enye - oko kwakuthiwe `Shake the bottle three times a day’. Mandidlule kancinci Mhlalingaphambili, ndingayibambezeli le Ndlu. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Chairperson, I was making the point about people who cannot think for themselves, who are led by a person with a one-track mind: opposing Government strictly as if he or she was following doctor’s orders

• in the morning, at daytime and in the evening. This person does nothing else, he or she is one-track-minded - it’s like he or she is following the order to “shake the bottle three times a day”. Let me go further, Chairperson, so as not to delay this House.]

I also want to say to some hon members here that South Africa and Zimbabwe are just neighbours, therefore we have no right to interfere in each other’s business. We are two countries, not two provinces. Why should we be dictated to by other countries?

If they want to come and invest, they must come and invest. They should not say that because we have relations with Zimbabwe and the rand is going up or down, they cannot enter into agreement with us. It should not be like that. May I also say that it is the duty of any responsible leader in this country to protect and articulate the position of the country, not his own or his party’s position. We are bound by one Constitution as a country.

Xa ndiza kugqiba [In conclusion], I also want to say that our President has a responsibility of making sure that there is peace in the world. Only irresponsible parties will object to the President’s visit to Iraq. The DP or the Democratic Alliance - whatever they call themselves - was very silent when these very same countries supported rebels on the continent. Instead, they supported them fully.

The kind of opposition we need is one that will be constructive, with open eyes and minds. They should have no fears, and should make sure that in their opposition they assist in building the country. Our future is not dependent on the Americas or the Bushes. It is dependent on our own President here, and it is our own hands which will reconstruct this country. [Applause.]

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Chairperson, the hon the Premier of KwaZulu- Natal says that our country is affected by a crippling economic recession. It is not. Indeed, what I said earlier about the Standard & Poor’s upgrading of their assessment of South Africa from stable upwards indicates precisely that there is no South Africa that is experiencing a crippling economic recession.

I am sure the premier is the only person in the country who has found that recession. [Laughter.] Nobody else has. We are not on any slippery slope. He said we are on the edge of a slippery, downhill path. We are not at all.

I am saying these things, because I do believe that when we discuss the serious matters that we have been discussing today in this House, we really do need to be serious in our approach. It is embarrassing to talk about economic recession when everybody is talking about rates of growth in this country that are above those of the rest of the developed world, unless it is a matter entirely of a lack of knowledge of what the terms mean. [Laughter.]

Indeed, the reference to being on the edge of a slippery, downward hill referred in part to decisions that Parliament has taken to introduce legislation provided for in the Constitution, which relates to the matter of the crossing of the floor. The premier seemed to be very worried about what was going to happen to him as premier of the province. I have not the slightest idea what is going to happen to him, but surely we cannot, each one of us, say what happens to me'' - as an individual - will mean a slippery downhill path for the country.’’ None of us is that important - that includes the President. [Applause.] So we do need to really approach these discussions in a serious manner.

I must say that my own interactions with the provinces - that includes the visits to the provinces - do indeed show that the work of ensuring that the provinces do develop is taken extremely seriously by the premiers and the executives in the provinces. That is my experience.

In the visits we pay to the provinces we go to many of these places, have lots of discussions, and interact with these processes in any case, even outside of the context of those visits. It is important that both provincial governments and the local governments should engage this matter, because indeed - as everybody has been saying - the issue of the eradication of poverty must really be central in terms of what we do.

It cannot be helped that the Premier of KwaZulu-Natal says that it is not possible for the province to really engage its development challenges until, among other things, the province has greater autonomy. This is a federalist position; it is a basic fundamental ideological position that the premier was enunciating. One cannot say that unless my ideological demand is met, I shall do nothing about the eradication of poverty. That cannot be correct.

We cannot say to the people that we will not discharge our responsibilities until whatever we believe to be ideologically sacred grounds have been delivered. Fortunately, there is development taking place in the province of KwaZulu-Natal. It has not waited for autonomy. [Laughter.] I would be quite prepared to indicate to the premier what, in fact, is happening in the province with regard to development, and also with regard to all sorts of things that are happening that address the matter of the eradication of poverty.

Apart from really treating our discussions here seriously, we also, I think, do have an obligation to communicate the correct message to our people, a message of hope, not cooked up, not invented, not created, but actually reflective of what is happening in the country. I do not think it is particularly brilliant leadership to be communicating a sense of gloom to the people.

If that was true, it would be good to convey the truth. But to create something that does not exist, and then communicate it to the people in order to project a future which is terrible and horrible is not, I think, a proper exercise of leadership. And I really do not think any one of us should take pride in that kind of behaviour.

The stance raised by the hon Matthee and others about the need for us to work together - I think he said that together South Africa can win - is correct. Fortunately, that is what is happening.

But I do believe that it is necessary for us to continue to look at the question of how the structures and spheres of government are functioning, so as not to allow any sense of complacency. This is because I am quite certain that a matter I know the Premier of Gauteng has raised before, that even with regard to these programmes - such as rural development and urban renewal, that are agreed on - one does get a disjuncture at certain points in terms of the actual commitment of the resources to agreed programmes.

He has raised this issue in the past. For instance, it happens that national Government, having agreed to whatever the programme might be, then does not act on time in terms of making those resources from national Government available to what it is committed to. One then gets that imbalance. So I am saying it is clear that we are improving the system of co-operation - of co-operative governance - but, surely we should not allow for complacency on this matter.

The speaker from eThekwini, Ms Dube, raised the question of the need, for instance in that context, for joint processes or common processes with regard to the elaboration of the IDPs. I think that that was an important observation - the three-sphere IDP fora that she referred to - in order to avoid our pulling in different directions.

Again, as I was saying and bearing in mind the remarks that were made by Premier Shilowa about how we might organise visits of the NCOP, I am quite certain that the work of the NCOP to assist in stitching together that relationship among the three spheres of government is an important part of what we have to do. It is also an important part of the larger matter that the hon Matthee was referring to of our working together as a country.

It is true that there will be some dinosaurs in our society that will be hangovers from the past, but, fortunately, in the nature of dinosaurs they sort of die away and disappear. This includes the people, and others, who have been setting off the bombs. Most certainly the law-enforcement authorities will act very firmly with regard to all of these matters. It is our obligation to make sure that we protect lives and property; that must happen.

Indeed, I was glad to hear the hon members speak out against those people who seek to make justifications for these acts of terror. It is obviously incorrect and, I think, the more of us who say so, the better. It cannot be the case that there is any demand in the country by anybody which gives them justification to take up arms of any sort and declare war against South African society.

I am quite sure that even the Group of 63 referred to, will, in time, grow and develop. If they do not, they will go the way of all dinosaurs. But I would like to hope that these are intelligent people, that they would indeed, as I was saying, grow and develop, and treat the matter of language in the manner in which the hon Van Niekerk was indicating. I agree; it is incorrect to approach the matter of languages in a separate pocket - in a ghetto. This matter has to be integrated in the manner in which a society functions. I agree.

All of us need to vigorously pursue this question. We were discussing this in the national Cabinet three, four or five weeks ago, with regard to the use of languages within the Government. The same point was made as the hon member has just made: that we have to find a way of integrating all of these languages as much as is possible within the daily system of functioning of the Government. We looked at all manner of things, including cost. But, certainly, we are all proceeding from the same position, because it is correct. It has to be done.

I would hope that for all of us, wherever we are, that that is the route we take. Certainly, from the point of view of the Government, we did approve what basically would be the use of six different languages at a specific time, with some alternations. This was to try to get to the point at which one has a truly inclusive, multilingual system. But there are steps one has to take in order to get there. To achieve this objective does not require bombs; does not require force. These are matters which I am quite sure that we can and must resolve among ourselves as intelligent South Africans, which I am sure we are.

Regarding the challenge of transformation in terms of the matters that the hon Mohseen Moosa was raising, yes, they are, of course, important. But, again, I do believe that with regard even to that whole process - which is not just poverty alleviation but changing of the society - we can come to a common determination that is a common national challenge and that we need to work together in order to advance that particular process. It is happening. The hon Marthinus van Schalkwyk raised the matter of land tax. Indeed, I agree with him. We need to have a look at that. I was not aware personally that there was a process of this kind, which was impacting on land and agriculture in the way that he indicated. Certainly, I will take this matter up.

As I said, these are matters of transformation. A fortnight ago I got a letter from a big farmer in the Northern Cape who complained that the processes of land reform in South Africa were moving too slowly. He said whenever they, for instance, contacted officials at Land Affairs, the officials took time to respond. They want a programme to really speed up this process of dealing with the land question. And it is the Government that is delaying the movement forward with regard to this.

As I say, there are people that are engaged in this. This particular group of farmers in the Northern Cape are working with a group of farmers from KwaZulu-Natal who are saying the same thing. They are quite ready to engage. We are not talking about somebody else’s land, but their own land in that it has to be part of this process of addressing the land question. I think that is what indicates where South Africa is going - that capacity among South Africans of acting together and working together on these commonly identified challenges. I believe that that is the route that all of us should strive to take.

We will continue to interact with the government of Iraq. I asked the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, Aziz Pahad, to go to Iraq, and he went last week to meet with President Saddam Hussein and to make the point that it is critically important for Iraq to co-operate with the Security Council. If we say we are committed to this multilateral system of government - the multilateral institutions - then we are all obliged to honour the decisions of the Security Council, as South Africa has done with regard to Iraq.

We raised the point with regard to the United States and Iraq of it being incorrect for the US to seek to act unilaterally on the matter of Iraq, that they needed to act within the context of a multilateral organisation, being the United Nations. I was very pleased that, indeed, that is what the US administration then did.

We all have to then pursue the matter of the honouring of the decision of the Security Council, as I have just indicated, and for that purpose we will continue to be in contact with the government of Iraq.

I do not know the person referred to who is supposed to be a former official of the US government during the time of President Clinton. Certainly, he does not reflect the view of the US government, nor does he reflect the view of the United Nations.

The US government is perfectly conscious of the fact of our contact with Iraq, and, indeed, we discussed the matter with them some time ago about the need, as I was indicating, to deal with this matter via the Security Council; to produce the required result in that these inspectors should go back to Iraq; and, indeed, that we would discuss those matters with the government of Iraq. The US government said they would indeed be very pleased if we could do that, because this might very well assist in finding a resolution to this matter. I do not know whom the former official of the state department represents.

South Africa is currently the chair of the Non-Aligned Movement and the chair of the African Union, and we have certain obligations in terms of those organisations. We have taken specific positions with regard to this and we will communicate those positions to the government of Iraq and everybody else.

I heard that the DP, or the DA, believes that we should not interact with Iraq and threatened that there will be dire consequences from the United States. There will not be any dire consequences.

I was very pleased to hear the references made by the premiers and other speakers with regard to the African Union and Nepad. We have to pursue these two matters to the best of our ability. The matters of democracy, peace and prosperity on the African continent are matters that are very vital, and are vital to the future of our country as well. We have to pursue these matters, and I am quite convinced that overwhelming opinion on the continent - I am not just talking about leaders, but about ordinary people too - is in favour of these processes.

There has been a lot of confusion about what is described as peer review. Part of it is informed, unfortunately, by people not wanting to ask about this process. If only they said: ``I do not understand. Can you please explain’’. They do not want to ask, because they know - and so they come to conclusions which are quite wrong.

We will do what needs to be done. The matter, as I keep saying, of the issues that relate to political governance are provided for in terms of legislation that was passed by our national Parliament. Our national Parliament passed the Constitutive Act of the African Union. So this is the law. This is what we mean by good political governance. These are the things that we must achieve - we even said there must be a court of justice established so that it oversees these things.

Now the people who know say: ``No, no. Do not go that route. Make this a voluntary thing’’. Why do they want to make it a voluntary thing? That is wrong. There is a law in place approved by the majority of African parliaments, which came into force and which is why it was possible to establish the African Union. It was established by treaty. It is necessary that those provisions of the Constitutive Act, which are in that law, are observed.

So I say to Premier Mtshali that that is the truth about that; not what he might have read in some newspaper.

The continent will proceed in that manner. Indeed, I know that people in Parliament are looking at a number of these things - as to the steps that need to be taken to make sure that we have all these institutions in place on the African continent so that they discharge their responsibilities.

I would most certainly be interested in the biography of President Bush that the hon Kent Durr has. I will certainly read it. I am sure it makes for very interesting reading. [Laughter.]

I say thank you very much indeed to Madam Chairperson, hon premiers, representatives of Salga and members of the Council for this discussion. I think the predominant theme of this discussion is that all of us accept the challenges that are ahead of us - the domestic challenges about poverty, about the end of underdevelopment and about the challenges that face us on our continent.

I think we are also saying to ourselves that we are proud to be South Africans, and not arrogant; that as these proud South Africans we are not going to do or say anything that is going to run our country down, that without foundation is going to project negative images of our country, which do not exist and are based on nothing; that we are not afraid of discharging our responsibilities if we believe them to be correct, simply because there is somebody else in the world who is more powerful than us and that therefore we must be intimidated. I think we are saying that those who set off bombs in this country will not intimidate us either.

I want to join everybody in congratulating the hon Marthinus van Schalkwyk on his election, also the hon M J Mahlangu, and I am quite sure that they will add great strength, value and wisdom to the proceedings of this House.

I wish everybody a happy new year. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Thank you, Mr President. I am informed by the Whips that you yourself may be the subject of several nominations very soon, and the Whips have directed me to wish you good fortune in that regard.

We thank the President for having been present in the House to lead this debate.

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 18:02. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                      MONDAY, 11 NOVEMBER 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 11 November 2002  in  terms
     of Joint Rule 160(6), classified the  following  Bill  as  a  money
     Bill:


     (i)     Revenue  Laws  Amendment  Bill  [B  67  -  2002]  (National
          Assembly - sec 77).
 (2)    The Minister for Justice and Constitutional  Development  on  31
     October 2002 submitted a draft of the Constitution of the  Republic
     of South Africa  Fourth  Amendment  Bill,  2002,  as  well  as  the
     memorandum explaining the objects of the proposed  legislation,  to
     the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of  Joint  Rule  159.  The
     draft has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on  Justice  and
     Constitutional Development and the  Select  Committee  on  Security
     and Constitutional Affairs by  the  Speaker  and  the  Chairperson,
     respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).


 (3)    The Minister for Justice and  Constitutional  Development  on  5
     November 2002 submitted a draft of the Compulsory  HIV  Testing  of
     Alleged Sexual Offenders Bill, 2002,  as  well  as  the  memorandum
     explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to the  Speaker
     and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The draft has  been
     referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice  and  Constitutional
     Development   and   the   Select   Committee   on   Security    and
     Constitutional  Affairs  by  the  Speaker  and   the   Chairperson,
     respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

National Council of Provinces:

1. The Chairperson:

 The following papers have been tabled  and  are  now  referred  to  the
 relevant committees as mentioned below:


 (1)    The following papers are referred to  the  Select  Committee  on
     Security and Constitutional Affairs for consideration and report:


     (a)     Memorandum of Understanding  among  Member  Governments  of
          the Eastern and Southern African Anti-Money  Laundering  Group
          and the Republic of South Africa, tabled in terms  of  section
          231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (b)     Explanatory Memorandum to the Memorandum of Understanding.


     (c)     Protocol Relating to the Establishment  of  the  Peace  and
          Security Council of the African  Union,  tabled  in  terms  of
          section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (2)    The following papers are referred to  the  Select  Committee  on
     Finance for consideration and report:


     (a)     Convention between the Government of the Republic of  South
          Africa and the Government of the United Kingdom of Britain and
          Northern Ireland for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and  the
          Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes  on  Income
          and Capital Gains, tabled in terms of section  231(2)  of  the
          Constitution, 1996.


     (b)     Explanatory Memorandums to the Convention.


     (c)     Agreement between the Government of the Republic  of  South
          Africa and the Government of New Zealand for the Avoidance  of
          Double Taxation and the  Prevention  of  Fiscal  Evasion  with
          respect to Taxes on Income, tabled in terms of section  231(2)
          of the Constitution, 1996.


     (d)     Explanatory Memorandum to the Agreement.


 (3)    The following papers are referred to  the  Select  Committee  on
     Education and Recreation:


     (a)     Report and Financial Statements of  the  National  Research
          Foundation for 2001-2002, including the Report of the Auditor-
          General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002.


     (b)     Report and  Financial  Statements  of  the  Foundation  for
          Education, Science and Technology for 2001-2002, including the
          Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements  for
          2001-2002 [RP 131-2002].


 (4)    The following paper is  referred  to  the  Select  Committee  on
     Finance:


     Report and Financial Statements  of  the  Office  of  the  Auditor-
     General for 2001-2002 [RP 221-2002].


 (5)    The following papers are referred to  the  Select  Committee  on
     Economic and Foreign Affairs.


     (a)     Report and Financial Statements of  the  National  Gambling
          Board for 2001-2002, including  the  Report  of  the  Auditor-
          General on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002.


     (b)     Report of the Auditor-General on the Lebowa  Mineral  Trust
          for the period 1996-1997, 1997-1998, 1998-1999 [RP 189-2002].


     (c)     Report of the Auditor-General on the Lebowa  Mineral  Trust
          for the period  1988-1989,  1989-1990,  1990-1991,  1991-1992,
          1992-1993, 1993-1994, 1994-1995, 1995-1996 [RP 190-2002].

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Minerals and Energy:

 Annual Report of the Mine Health and Safety Inspectorate for 2001-2002.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Joint Budget Committee on the Medium Term Budget Policy Statement, dated 11 November 2002:

 The Joint Budget Committee reports as follows:


 1.     TERMS OF REFERENCE AND HEARINGS


 The Minister of Finance  tabled  the  2002  Medium-Term  Budget  Policy
 Statement (MTBPS) before Parliament on Tuesday  29  October  2002.  The
 2002 MTBPS  sets  out  the  macroeconomic  context  and  fiscal  policy
 considerations against  which  the  2003  Budget  will  be  framed.  It
 outlines developments in tax policy and the  main  spending  priorities
 for the next three-year  (2003/4  to  2005/6)  Medium-Term  Expenditure
 Framework (MTEF) period, including allocations to provincial and  local
 government levels.


 On 28 October 2002, the official  terms  of  reference  for  the  Joint
 Budget Committee were tabled. The very brief period  between  then  and
 the close of the Parliamentary session put great time pressure both  on
 the Committee and on those giving evidence to  it,  which  limited  its
 ability to carry out its mandate. The terms of  reference  mandate  the
 Committee to:


 *  Consider  proposed  allocations  in  the   Medium-Term   Expenditure
     Framework (MTEF) and  the  Appropriation  Bill  and  whether  these
     allocations are broadly in keeping with the  policy  directions  of
     Government;


 * Make proposals regarding the processes Parliament should follow  with
     regard to its role in the developing of budgets in accordance  with
     constitutional requirements;
 * Consider, when tabled, the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement,  with
     the exception of those sections  dealing  with  the  macro-economic
     situation and revenue (i.e. Sections 2, 3 and 4);


 * Conduct hearings on the Medium-Term  Expenditure  Framework  and  the
     Budget  Policy  Review  Document,  with  the  exception  of   those
     sections dealing with the macro-economic situation and revenue;


 * Exercise those powers in Joint Rule 32 that may  assist  in  carrying
     out its functions; and


 * Report on the  Medium-Term  Budget  Policy  Statement  regarding  the
     matters referred to above.


 This report is accordingly submitted in terms of the above.


 2.     THE MTBPS IN SUMMARY
 2.1    Overview: Sections 1-4


 These sections deal with:


 * The macroeconomic forecasts, global and national, according to  which
     the 2003 Budget will be framed. These are cautiously optimistic.


 * Fiscal policy, trends and goals; revised  estimates  and  the  fiscal
     framework for the 2003 MTEF. Declining debt costs enable  increased
     social spending.


 * Revenue trends and projections, medium term estimates, and tax policy
     for budget 2003. Revenue is estimated to remain at about  24.5%  of
     GDP.


 2.2    MTBPS Section 5: Medium Term Expenditure Framework


 The 2003 MTEF has the following priorities:


 * Poverty reduction and development  by  extending  social  assistance,
     health and education


 * Enhanced investment in municipal infrastructure and basic services


 * Expanded capacity in the safety and security sector, with  particular
     focus on court administration


 * Higher education restructuring


 * Accelerated land reform and restitution


 * Better services to citizens provided by Home Affairs


 * South Africa's growing international role, notably in NEPAD  and  the
     AU


 The preliminary budget framework proposes R84,9 billion  in  additional
 allocations over the 2002  MTEF  baseline  amounts.  Social  and  basic
 service delivery is prioritised, with provinces receiving  the  largest
 adjustments - a further R12,3 billion in 2003/4 rising to R20,8 billion
 in 2005/6. In relative terms, local  government  receives  the  largest
 increase, at 18,4 percent, compared with 9 percent  for  provinces  and
 7,3 percent for national departments.


 2.3 MTBPS Section 6: Provincial and local government finances


 The supplementary allocations to provinces will support the  broadening
 and deepening  of  social  services.  Increased  financial  support  to
 provinces focuses on:


 * Social  grants  will  continue  to  be  adjusted  to  compensate  for
     inflation;


 *  A  progressive  roll-out  of  HIV/AIDS  prevention   and   treatment
     programmes and renewed focus on  sexually  transmitted  infections,
     TB and malaria treatments;


 * Investment in hospital buildings and facilities, schools and clinics;


 * Spending  on  learning  support  materials  in  schools  and  medical
     supplies in health facilities will be stepped up; and


 * Steady increases in investment in the provincial road network will be
     supported.


 Capacity development enabling institutions to disburse allocations with
 increased effectiveness is an important element.  Allocation  to  local
 government  continues  the   emphasis   on   municipal   infrastructure
 investment and the  broadening  of  access  to  free  basic  water  and
 electricity. Government rural development and urban renewal  strategies
 provide a  coordinating  framework  for  creating  jobs  and  extending
 development of communities.


 3.     SOCIAL SERVICES CLUSTER SUBMISSIONS


 MTEF policy priority for  the  cluster:  poverty  reduction  and  human
 capacity building.


 The Joint Budget Committee requested the  social  services  cluster  of
 departments - Education, Social Development, Health, and Provincial and
 Local Government, to give evidence on their progress in  delivering  on
 their policy priority.


 3.1    THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION


 Both the Minister and the Department of Education agreed that the  2002
 Adjustments Estimate and the 2002 MTBPS enable the department  to  give
 effect to educational priorities. In particular: An adjustment of  R2.2
 billion to provincial budgets for 2002/03.


 Government's  strategic  objectives  for  poverty   reduction   through
 education are twofold, namely:


 * To improve adequacy of education funding  for  poor  communities  and
     achieve greater equity in educational outcomes.


 * To implement the wide-ranging  Human  Resource  Development  Strategy
     that is directed towards  improving  the  skills  capacity  of  the
     South African economy.


 3.1.1  Priorities targeted for increased expenditure


 * Learner Support Materials


 * Higher education restructuring


 * The  National  School  Nutrition  Programme  (previously  called  the
     Primary School Nutrition Programme): Cabinet has decided  to  shift
     the function to the  Department  of  Education  in  2004,  and  the
     departments  have  agreed  that  they  will  manage  the  programme
     jointly next year in 2003 and Education in 2004.
 * The school building programme


 * Prevention, care and support  of  people  infected  and  affected  by
     HIV/AIDS, especially via the conditional grant to provinces.


 *  Accelerated  roll-out  of  Early  Childhood  Development  (Grade  R)
     provision.


 * Adult Basic Education and Training (ABET) introduction.


 In conclusion, the Department noted the importance of ensuring that the
 2003  MTEF  allocations  are  realised  in  the  provincial   budgeting
 processes.


 3.2    DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT


 3.2.1  Priorities


 * Poverty reduction, especially targeting the vulnerable: children  and
     those affected and infected by HIV/AIDS.  Reviewing  laws  relating
     to children, expanding  home/community-based  care  programmes  and
     increasing social assistance (foster care). Mitigating  the  impact
     of HIV/AIDS in a national integrated plan  and  developing  policy,
     legislation and capacity building at all levels.


 * Improvement of the social security system. The extension of the Child
     Support Grant to children  between  7-14  is  being  evaluated  for
     fiscal sustainability. Cabinet is considering  the  recommendations
     of the Taylor Commission  and  is  reviewing  the  social  security
     system as a whole.


 * Replacement of the Grant Payment System (SOCPEN) and strengthening of
     the monitoring, evaluation and compliance of grant payments.


 * Tabling the Child Justice Bill  in  Parliament.  The  Bill  has  been
     costed and the additional allocations proposed in  the  2003  MTBPS
     provide for its implementation.


 *  Implementation  of  the  child  abuse  and  neglect  strategy.   The
     Department also intends implementing  victim  empowerment  measures
     that focus on the anti-rape strategy and its strategy  on  shelters
     for abused women and children.


 * Transformation of welfare services, focusing primarily on  review  of
     the  funding  provided  to  NGOs,  and  the   development   of   an
     appropriate financing policy.


 * The implementation of recommendations of the Ministerial Committee on
     Elderly Abuse which entails the formulation  of  new  policies  and
     legislation,  audit  and  inspection  of  old-age  homes  and   the
     development of norms and standards.


 3.3    THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH


 The Department's presentation  focused  on  system  and  administrative
 challenges. The  proposed  2003  MTEF  projects  substantial  budgetary
 increase for the health sector, averaging 10 percent  a  year  for  the
 sector  over  the  next  three  years.  Priority  areas  are  HIV/AIDS,
 personnel, infrastructure, and a general health sector adjustment.


 3.3.1  More resources are requested for:


 * Health inflation. The Department requested a  general  adjustment  in
     the context of higher than expected health/medical inflation.


 * Strengthening the Enhanced Response to HIV/AIDS. Strategy in  respect
     of the roll-out of the Prevention of  Mother-to-child  Transmission
     programme  and  provision  of  Post   Exposure   Prophylactics   to
     survivors  of  sexual  assault,  in  accordance  with  the   recent
     Constitutional Court decision.


 *  Personnel  concerns,  including  community  service   provision   to
     additional categories of medical personnel;  inflation  adjustments
     to rural and scarce  skills  allowances;  and  mid-level  posts  to
     relieve medical professionals from administrative duties.


 * Health infrastructure - while there  is  increased  spending  on  the
     Hospital  Revitalisation  Programme,   additional   resources   are
     required.


 * Provincial role: Strengthened interaction between  provincial  health
     departments  and  treasuries  is  needed  to  ensure  that  funding
     reaches priority health areas.


 3.4    DEPARTMENT OF PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT


 3.4.1  Priorities and challenges


 The strategic priorities of the  Department  of  Provincial  and  Local
 Government are to:
 * Provide leadership and guidance to the process  of  local  government
     transformation;


 * Provide direct  technical  and  material  support  to  provinces  and
     municipalities  in  fulfilling  their  constitutional   roles   and
     functions;


 * Coordinate the implementation of  the  Integrated  Sustainable  Rural
     Development Programme  (ISRDP)  and  the  Urban  Renewal  Programme
     (URP);


 *  Establish  a  policy  framework   for   government-wide   integrated
     development planning.


 3.4.2  Programmes and activity focus


 In  respect  of  basic  services  and  infrastructure  provision,   the
 Department is focusing on:


 * The Consolidated Municipal Infrastructure Programme (CMIP),
 * Consolidating capital grants to municipalities, and


 * Strengthening provision of free basic services to poor communities.


 The redemarcation of 843 municipalities into 243 by December 2000 calls
 for  an  intensive  programme  targeted  towards  consolidating   local
 government. The Department is  following  a  three-phased  approach  to
 building developmental local government in terms of its  establishment,
 consolidation and sustainability.


 The Urban Renewal Programme is  aimed  at  promoting  and  facilitating
 sustainable development in the 8 (initial) urban nodes by  implementing
 an innovative model of integrated  planning,  budgeting,  delivery  and
 governance across the three spheres of government.


 Progress to date includes:


 * Establishment of basic institutional arrangements  across  all  three
     spheres


 * Identification of, and mobilisation of support for anchor projects in
     each node


 * Finalisation of a national implementation framework


 * Finalisation of a national urban policy


 The complementary Integrated Sustainable  Rural  Development  Programme
 focuses on promoting and facilitating sustainable development in the 13
 (initial) rural nodes.


 Progress to date includes:


 * Establishing institutional arrangements, in particular the supportive
     role   that   the   Independent   Development   Trust   plays    in
     implementation;


 * Identification of 120 anchor projects in the 13 nodes


 * Allocation of additional funds through the CMIP and local  government
     equitable share funding stream


 * Finalisation of a national implementation framework


 4.    THE PROTECTION SERVICES CLUSTER


 MTEF cluster priority: Strengthen the fight against crime.


 The Joint Budget Committee requested the departments in the  Integrated
 Justice Sector  -  Safety  and  Security,  Justice  and  Constitutional
 Development and Correctional Services - to appear before the Committee.


 4.1    THE DEPARTMENT OF SAFETY AND SECURITY


 The Department of Safety and Security welcomed the 2003  MTBPS,  noting
 that it addresses key policy priority areas, such as expanding capacity
 in the  safety  and  security  sector  to  prevent  and  combat  crime,
 additional resources to address  crimes  against  women  and  children,
 supplementary  infrastructure  allocations,  the   adoption   of   more
 localised (sector) policing and the increase of policing personnel.


 4.1.1  Implementation priorities


 The main spending pressures  and  policy  priorities  in  the  policing
 sector over the next three years relate  to  addressing  infrastructure
 shortcomings  and  the  issue  of   personnel   shortages.   Additional
 allocations enable the department to:


 * Maintain implementation of the departmental strategic  plan  that  is
     focused on the prevention and combatting of crime, and  improvement
     of service delivery.


 * Fully resource the units of the South African Police  Service  (SAPS)
     that are responsible  for  the  investigation  of  cases  involving
     crimes against women and children.


 * Increase the SAPS  personnel  contingent  by  an  additional  28  560
     personnel over the period 2002 -2005. This is  an  increase  of  16
     200 police officers and 12 360 civilian employees.  The  additional
     civilian employees will  further  enable  trained  police  officers
     currently involved in  administrative  duties  to  be  released  to
     active policing.


 * Strengthen  local  policing  through  implementation  of  the  sector
     policing  approach,  which  will  specifically   address   violence
     against women and children.


 * Improve conditions of police stations,  and  build  new  stations  in
     areas that are underserviced. An additional station for  Inanda  is
     also planned for 2003.


 *  Modernise  the  police  vehicle  fleet  and  information  technology
     infrastructure.


 * Together with partners in the Integrated  Justice  Sector,  implement
     the sector modernisation strategy that integrates relevant  systems
     and  links  the  information  technology  systems  of   SAPS,   the
     Departments   of   Justice    and    Constitutional    Development,
     Correctional Services and Social Development.


 * Provide for payment of death benefits for  police  officers  who  are
     murdered, in accordance with Cabinet's recent decision. The  family
     of such members will receive a once-off cash payment  of  R200  000
     in addition to whatever other benefits they may  be  entitled.  The
     death benefit compensates  for  the  high  risk  rating  of  police
     personnel by the private sector insurance companies.


 The Department noted that due to high  prevalence  of  crime  in  South
 Africa, there will always be spending pressures in the sector. However,
 the Department believes that the balanced approach of  the  2003  MTBPS
 will enable adequate service provision  in  combating  crime  over  the
 medium term.


 The Department noted that it would be recruiting and  training  16  200
 police personnel over  the  next  three  years.  This  is  the  maximum
 capacity of the police training institutions. It is also  important  to
 ensure that capacity is balanced across the integrated justice sector.


 The Committee raised the question of the adequacy of  Child  Protection
 Units (CPUs), given the high and rising  incidence  of  crimes  against
 children. The Department responded that there  are  currently  45  CPUs
 located in areas where the incidence  of  crimes  against  children  is
 higher. To expand this service, SAPS  is  moving  towards  an  approach
 where police units are not overspecialised, and is  therefore  focusing
 on training.


 4.2    DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT


 4.2.1  Priorities


 The 2002 MTBPS directs additional funding over the next three years  to
 the Department of  Justice  and  Constitutional  Development  targeting
 improvement of court efficiency in order to reduce the case backlog  in
 the system.


 To address this, a series of mutually reinforcing  measures  have  been
 introduced  specifically  aimed  at  improving  court  efficiency   and
 reducing court case backlogs:


 * Saturday and Additional courts have been introduced  as  a  temporary
     measure to reduce the number of cases on the court roll;
 * A new policy has been introduced which  specifies  more  clearly  the
     criteria applicable for judging if a case is fit  for  trial.  This
     will in lead to a decrease in the number of cases withdrawn;


 * On a pilot basis, 26  semi-automated  IJS  court  centres  have  been
     established with a focus on improved  management  and  coordination
     of court processes;


 * A Diversion programme provides alternative  sentencing  for  juvenile
     offenders, in keeping with the  principles  of  the  Child  Justice
     Bill;


 * Phased implementation of the special sexual offences courts;


 * Enhanced financial and budget  management  procedures.  Key  projects
     include  the  PPP  cash-hall  management  project   and   increased
     forensic audits. The cash-hall management  project  refers  to  the
     Department's intention to outsource  its  central  cash  management
     function  to  reduce  fraud  and  corruption  and  improve  service
     delivery, particularly as regards payment of maintenance to  single
     parent families;


 * Capacity building and upgrading of the Masters  Office.  (Magistrates
     previously did  the  administration  of  Black  estates.  With  the
     separation of functions between the  judiciary  and  administrative
     personnel, this has now  become  the  sole  responsibility  of  the
     Masters Office.)


 The Chief Financial Officer addressed problems with the  management  of
 the Department's deposit trust fund. The  Department  agreed  with  the
 Auditor General's summary that here were "huge losses" from this  fund,
 which manages inter alia child maintenance money.  The  Department  had
 requested R100 million to speedily outsource management  to  a  Public-
 Private Partnership.  However,  Treasury  regulations  require  private
 sector transaction advisors  to  investigate  the  feasibility  of  the
 project, while the Department is concerned about delays.


 4.3    DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES


 The Department of Correctional  Services  manages  the  output  of  the
 criminal justice system, being responsible for detaining  prisoners  in
 safe custody following their arrest and conviction.


 4.3.1  Priorities in the MTBPS period


 * Develop a Green Paper on Correctional Services;


 * Create a culture of good  governance  to  combat  corruption,  crime,
     malpractice, and maladministration;


 * Improve the skills capacity of lower level staff and the retention of
     skilled personnel;
 * Improve prison management;
 * Take appropriate measures to adequately address the special needs  of
     targeted prisoner categories, including  the  youth,  females,  the
     aged, pregnant females and  mothers  with  infants,  terminally-ill
     prisoners the mentally challenged and prisoners with disabilities;


 * Enhance rehabilitation programmes;


 * Enhance prisoner peer-educator programmes;


 * Improve the maintenance and repair of facilities;


 * Increase prison accommodation to reduce overcrowding;


 * Develop criteria for implementation of  public  private  partnerships
     within the context of correctional services.


 The Committee was concerned about personnel expenditure. The Department
 indicated that 80% of its core budget is spent on personnel,  and  that
 high workloads were still a key concern.


 The need for new prisons was a subject for  debate,  one  view  in  the
 Department being  that  focusing  budgetary  resources  on  social  and
 economic development rather than building new prisons would reduce  the
 pressure on prison  populations  in  time.  Meanwhile,  the  Department
 responded that about 70 percent of South Africa's prisons are more than
 50 years old. The Department has divided maintenance and  upgrading  of
 these prisons into 2 phases: the first comprising 33  prisons  and  the
 second comprising 146 prisons. The Department also  intends  to  build,
 rather than rent, head office accommodation.


 * Black economic empowerment  of  procurement  awards:  The  department
     noted its  difficulty  in  validating  black  economic  empowerment
     credentials of tender  applicants.  It  requested  the  Committee's
     assistance in this regard.
 * In response to questions regarding the high incidence of HIV/AIDS and
     TB among prisoners, the Department responded that HIV/AIDS  may  be
     contracted  prior  to  imprisonment  and  that   deterioration   of
     affected prisoners  may  be  accelerated  through  the  overcrowded
     conditions in prisons.


 5.     THE ECONOMIC SERVICES CLUSTER


 The Economic Services cluster of departments is  pivotal  in  realising
 two of the sets of priorities which structure the MTBPS, namely:


 * Employment Creation and Black Economic Empowerment (BEE)


 * Land reform and agricultural development.


 The budget committee invited six of the Departments in this cluster  to
 give evidence. In the event, only the Public Works Department (PWD) and
 the Department of Trade and Industry (DTI)  did  so,  although  written
 submissions were received from the Department of Minerals  and  Energy,
 the Department of Labour, the National Department of  Agriculture,  and
 the Department of Land Affairs.


 5.1    THE DEPARTMENT OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY


 The  DTI's  presentation  focused  on  incentives  for  small  business
 development through its programme of  support  for  Small,  Medium  and
 Micro enterprises. (SMMEs), and associated employment creation. It then
 reviewed a range of its industrial development support programmes.


 5.1.1  SMME support strategy


 Key strategies for SMME sector development are:


 * Greater coordination across  government  departments,  with  the  DTI
     taking the lead role.


 * Partnership between different sheres of government, provincial, local
     and metropolitan councils, with  metropolitan  councils  playing  a
     particularly important part in improving the environment for  small
     business to thrive. The DTI is already at work on this.


 * Improved access to finance by a better coordination  of  the  various
     financing instruments within the DTI Group of  Institutions.  There
     will  be  a  targeted,  project  centred  focus  which  is  further
     informed by the Integrated Manufacturing Strategy,  or  initiatives
     such  as  Industrial   Development   Zones   (IDZs)   and   Spatial
     Development Initiatives (SDIs), and with  a  new  emphasis  on  co-
     operatives.


 Khula and Ntsika,  the  DTI-linked  agencies  that  provide  access  to
 finance and training, are being restructured to work more closely under
 common direction. The  DTI  is  also  setting  up  a  call  centre  for
 immediate access to advice.
 5.1.2  Key strategies and programmes


 * The Motor Industry Development Programme  (MIDP),  highly  successful
     and to be extended


 * The Strategic Investment Programme (SIP)


 * Industrial Development Zones (IDZs)


 *  Customised  support  for  targeted  sectors  under  the   Industrial
     Management Strategy (IMS).


 * The National Research  and  Development  Strategy,  notably  the  key
     technology   platforms   of   Biotechnology   and   ICT;   Advanced
     Manufacturing and developing new knowledge  based  industries  from
     the resource-based industries.


 The committee was concerned about the company registration process, and
 its costliness and inaccessibility to informal  sector  operators.  The
 DTI undertook to provide details. Modes of monitoring BEE  also  demand
 clear definition and criteria.


 5.2    THE NATIONAL DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS


 The NPWD's task is management of national  departments'  accommodation,
 housing, land and infrastructure. It aims to develop  a  transformation
 framework for the property and construction sectors.  The  NPWD's  MTEF
 budget  increases  slightly  in  2003,  after  having  dropped  due  to
 underspending. However, this year the Department expects to overspend.


 In its presentation to the Committee,  the  NPWD  focused  on  its  own
 system challenges, and shortcomings of the MTEF in terms of its needs.


 Primary issues were:


 * The  NPWD  is  finding  it  extremely  difficult  to  retain  skilled
     personnel


 * It needs uniform guidelines for public immovable asset management


 * Its information systems need upgrading and integration


 * The NPWD felt the National Treasury had allocated insufficient  funds
     for costs on leased and rented state property which it was  obliged
     to pay


 *  The  increasing  diversion  of  poverty  alleviation  funds  to  the
     Municipal Investment Fund is causing concern  within  the  NPWD  in
     relation to its poverty alleviation projects. These are also  being
     reviewed by Treasury.


 Achievements  included  BEE  in  construction  projects,  in   property
 disposed of, and contractors and consultants preferred in terms of  the
 Preferential Employment Policy Framework Act. The Department  has  also
 been active in poverty relief and human capacity development projects.


 In response to committee questions, however, the  NRWD  was  unable  to
 quantify the budgetary shortfall in  lease  and  rental  costs,  or  to
 specify the number of persons  benefited  by  its  poverty  alleviation
 projects.


 5.3    THE DEPARTMENT OF MINERALS AND ENERGY


 The Department  of  Minerals  and  Energy  provided  the  Joint  Budget
 committee with a written submission. It reported  on  elements  of  its
 activities relevant to employment creation and BEE, on developments  in
 the energy sector, and on challenges facing it.


 5.3.1  Employment Creation and BEE


 * The Broad-based Socio-economic Empowerment Charter sets  targets  for
     black  equity   in   the   industry,   provides   for   empowerment
     contracting, and intensive skills development.


 * The Oil Charter, voluntary at present, provides for 25 percent  black
     equity by 2010, empowerment contracting, and skills development.


 * The Integrated National Electrification Programme (INEP) is providing
     accelerated delivery of infrastructure.  30  percent  of  contracts
     have been awarded to empowerment groups, and  maintenance  will  be
     done affirmatively.


 * Restructuring the electricity industry  for  global  competitiveness,
     and efficiency also includes provision for free  basic  electricity
     and BEE participation in the electricity sector.


 * Fostering women's and children's participation  in  the  mineral  and
     energy sectors.
 5.4    THE DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR


 The submission of the Department of Labour endorses the MTEF's emphasis
 on employment creation and black economic empowerment  as  core  issues
 for a poverty eradication strategy.


 5.4.1  The Human Resources Development Strategy


 The Minister of Education and  the  Director  General  of  Labour  have
 jointly been appointed to head the national human Resources Development
 (HRD) Strategy. Its four key strategies are:


 *  Improving  the  foundations  for  human  development   through   the
     programmes for Early Childhood Development; Adult  Basic  Education
     and Training, and General Education.


 * Improving the supply of  quality  and  scarce  skills,  incorporating
     Higher and further education transformation and bursary schemes.


 * Increasing employer participation in lifelong learning in both public
     and private sectors.  Sector  Education  and  Training  authorities
     (SETAs) are expected to signal the learning needs  of  the  economy
     to the education and training sector.


 *  Industrial  policies,  support  for  innovation  and  research   and
     development are essential to employment  growth,  and  are  rightly
     prioritised in the MTBPS.


 5.5    THE NATIONAL DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE


 5.5.1  Agricultural sector plan


 The National Department of Agriculture's submission indicates  that  it
 is developing a sector plan to address disparities and success elements
 in the sector. An initial workshop was held in August 2002.
 The  plan's  key  objectives  are:  growth;   competitiveness;   wealth
 redistribution; strong leadership; and sustainability. Also  identified
 were challenges; opportunities; and leverage points. A discussion paper
 is being drafted  to  form  a  basis  for  broader  consultation,  with
 individual stakeholder consultations  scheduled  from  January/February
 2003. Internal management discussions are also in progress.


 5.5.2  Black Economic Empowerment (BEE) within the plan


 The first draft of a BEE policy acceptable to all  stakeholders  within
 agriculture is to be finalised at the end of March 2003.


 Consultation to develop sub-sector strategies  which  include  BEE  and
 growth components is under way with:


 * The red meat industry


 * The cotton industry, and
 * Grain SA


 Empowerment  project  proposals   worth   R16   851   295   are   under
 consideration, including:


 * A wool improvement project by the Mineworkers Union


 * Potato participation by Potato SA project


 * Bull improvement and database projects by NEPRO


 * A cooperative development initiative linking small  co-operatives  to
     big business and an investigation into piloting empowerment; and


 * A Goat Value Chain in the north-west,  covering  Limpopo,  Mpumalanga
     and Gauteng provinces.


 A database of service providers  is  being  continuously  developed  to
 support promotion of BEE in the sector plan implementation.


 5.6    THE DEPARTMENT OF LAND AFFAIRS


 The  Department  of  Land  Affairs'  written  submission  comprised  an
 overview of activities, and tables exerpted from its strategic plan for
 the MTEF  period.  The  MTEF  points  out  that  almost  half  of  land
 restitution claims have been settled,  with  more  complex  and  larger
 claims now becoming the focus.


 5.6.1  Restitution activities


 The Department's strategy is  to  accelerate  the  settlement  of  land
 restitution claims, with  a  focus  on  rural  claims  and  sustainable
 projects aimed at poverty alleviation. The Department estimates that 80
 percent of the claims to be settled during  the  MTEF  period  will  be
 rural. Some 28 percent of the  settled  claims  will  be  targeted  for
 sustainable development under the following programmes:


 * Urban Renewal Programme (URP);


 * Ownership in nature conservation and biodiversity;


 * Land Redistribution for Agricultural Development (LRAD); and


 * Stock and game farming.


 Validation of approximately 40 000 outstanding claims  is  planned  for
 completion in 2002/2003. This will be followed by the  verification  of
 all claimants to be finalised by December 2004. During this MTEF period
 approximately 205 000 households will benefit from the settlement of 24
 932 claims representing 1, 4 million hectares.


 5.6.2  Land Reform


 To achieve  a  more  equitable  distribution  of  land  ownership,  the
 Department will step up the implementation of the following programmes:


 *  The  Land  Redistribution  for   Agricultural   Development   (LRAD)
     programme;


 * Land  redistribution  for  commonages,  equities  and  other  related
     projects;


 * The acquisition of land for settlement;


 * Land delivered to Labour Tenants; and


 * Land acquired in support of the Urban Renewal Programme.


 For the MTEF period it is estimated that 76 902 households will benefit
 from the implementation of the above programmes, which will yield 2 708
 projects representing 896 299 hectares.


 A further 287 812 hectares of state land will be  disposed  of  in  the
 MTEF period.
 SECTION 6: DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS


 MTEF priority: administrative upgrading.


 6.1.1  Problems and priorities


 The Department's presentation focused mainly on  system  challenges  to
 service delivery. The major problem areas  were  highlighted  and  then
 steps to improve service delivery were discussed.


 The  Departments  main  focus  is  enhanced  capacity  to  maintain  an
 effective population  register  and  identification  system.  The  Home
 Affairs National Identification System (HANIS) will  receive  increased
 funding over the MTEF period to complete the  current  digitisation  of
 population records, and to begin the production  of  an  electronically
 readable smart card to replace the present ID booklets.


 The Department has obtained allocation of funding for key projects, but
 feels however that these are underfunded. The critical areas  of  under
 funding are:


 * Rural areas: the department wants  mobile  services  to  expand  into
     rural areas. The Committee noted that this was of  extreme  concern
     and the dept responded that they were acutely aware of this need.


 * Centre for illegal aliens: The question was raised by  the  Committee
     as to whether this centre was  functioning  well  and  managing  to
     assist people coming in. The department responded that  the  number
     of refugees  is  increasing,  and  therefore  expenditure  at  this
     centre will also increase. In addition, immigration  officers  need
     vehicles to perform their functions.


 * Screening: Persons seeking entry into the country  are  not  properly
     screened from a security viewpoint,  before  being  admitted.  Poor
     facilities create loopholes enabling persons to enter  the  country
     without reporting to  an  immigration  officer  for  the  necessary
     checks and controls.


 * Personnel: Some 1100 posts remain vacant. The Committee  pointed  out
     that surely this was one area the department should  prioritise  in
     trying  to  achieve  its   goal   of   better   service   delivery.
     Understaffing leads to longer queues. In response  to  a  question,
     the department said that they mainly used consultants in  the  area
     of IT to assist with the HANIS project, and only  spend  about  R16
     million on consultants.


 6.1.2  Efforts to improve services


 The department is moving from manual processes to  electronic  systems.
 The department is implementing an electronic document management system
 within  civic  services  which  will  improve  business   process   and
 efficiency, and will make Home Affairs  records  immediately  available
 both nationally and internationally.


 It is investigating the devolution of the  delivery  of  civic  affairs
 functions to municipalities, so that citizens will be  able  to  obtain
 identification documents, registrations of birth, deaths and  marriages
 and related certificates from a variety of points, using the  municipal
 infrastructure, which  is  already  in  place.  In  the  meantime,  the
 department has embarked on a process  of  negotiating  with  local  and
 rural authorities for co-operation in the rendering  of  services.  The
 department wishes  to  establish  multi-purpose  community  centres  to
 integrate service delivery at  community  level,  especially  in  rural
 areas.


 Identity system:  The Committee expressed  concern  that  the  original
 contract price for the first stage of  the  HANIS  project  (AFIS)  had
 increased from 930 million to approximately 1.5 billion. The  Committee
 raised the point that the initial contract was  based  on  an  exchange
 rate of the R6 to  the  dollar  and  was  now  very  out  of  date  and
 inaccurate. The projected cost for the second stage  of  HANIS,  namely
 SENIC amounts to 2 billion. The Committee noted the discussions between
 National Treasury and the department to explore  the  restructuring  of
 the next phase of HANIS as a PPP.


 7.1    THE FINANCIAL AND FISCAL COMMISSION (FFC)


 The Financial and Fiscal Commission (FFC) has a  statutory  mandate  to
 recommend on the Division of Revenue in the main budget and to  comment
 on all money bills.


 Section 214(2)(a) - (j) of the Constitution sets out factors  in  terms
 of which  the  FFC  should  asses  the  division  of  revenue.  In  its
 presentation, which reflected an earlier assessment at  this  stage  in
 the cycle, the FFC focused on:


 * Provisions for national debt and obligations;


 * National government's needs and interests;
 *  The  ability  of  provinces  and  municipalities  to  provide  basic
     services;


 * Fiscal capacity of provinces and municipalities;


 * The developmental needs of provinces and municipalities;


 * Stability and predictability of revenue shares.


 7.1.1  FFC's proposals of May 2002 for the 2003 MTEF


 In its presentation to the Committee, the FFC reviewed its  comparative
 analysis of  the  2002/3  budget  and  2002  MTEF.  It  summarised  the
 proposals it had made to feed into the 2003 MTEF, which were  presented
 to Parliament in May 2002:


 a)     FFC's proposals with regard to local government:
     *  Build creditworthiness in municipalities  with  little  capacity
          to access debt through  infrastructure  grants,  institutional
          capacity  building  programmes  and  clarified  accountability
          between the three spheres of government;


     *  Further consider of the division of functions between local  and
          district  municipalities  noting  existing  local   government
          policy  and  the  primary  role  of  national  government   in
          redistributing resources.  Local  governments  should  in  the
          longer term deliver services to residents;


     *  Incorporate considerations of councillor remuneration in the  I-
          element of the LES;


     *   Consider  the  relationship  between  regional  and   municipal
          electricity distributors, noting  the  option  of  a  levy  to
          compensate  distributing  municipalities  for  asset  transfer
          losses and to enable inter-municipal revenue sharing. National
          grants could be used to provide  free  basic  electricity  and
          overcome capital backlogs for the poor.


 b)     FFC's proposals with regard to provincial government:


     *   Conditional  grant  funding  mechanisms  for  Early   Childhood
          Development should continue until  they  can  be  incorporated
          into the Provincial Equitable share (PES) mechanism.


     *   A  conditional  grant  was  considered  the  most   appropriate
          mechanism for  targeting  the  impact  of  HIV/AIDS  whilst  a
          suitable information base is established.


 c)     Cross Cutting Equitable Share Issues
     *  The FFC offered  guidelines  for  reviewing  the  Taylor  Report
          (Comprehensive  Social  Security  Review)  and  proposed   the
          establishment  of  a  national  social  security   agency   to
          administer the payment of pension  and  child  support  grants
          over the medium to long term.  National  government  announced
          that this was under way.


     *  The FFC  proposes  that  it,  with  Parliament  and  Government,
          review the inter-governmental fiscal system in  the  light  of
          the Bill of Rights and section 214(2)(a)  to  (j).  Particular
          note is to be taken of data collection and  inter-governmental
          fiscal capacity building requirements.


     *  A tiered system of municipal, provincial  and  national  funding
          thresholds  was  proposed  for  various  aspects  of  disaster
          management.


     *  Finally, the FFC proposed that a legal basis be  established  to
          enable   contingency   reserves   to   accommodate    disaster
          management, macro-economic shocks and new policy priorities.


 7.1.2  FFC's analysis of 2002/3 Budget and 2003 MTEF


 a)     The national budget


 This year's adjusted macro-economic projections reflect the  impact  of
 the (nearly) 40 percent depreciation  of  the  rand  last  year.  These
 include expectations of  higher  (export-led)  economic  growth  and  a
 nearly 3 percent increase in expected inflation for 2003/4.


 Trends relating to spending include:


     *  As a proportion of GDP,  government  spending  is  projected  to
          rise faster than revenue. This may reflect additional spending
          pressures and/or  the  approach  of  capacity  limitations  in
          revenue collection. The result is that the deficit is expected
          to rise sharply next year, but will fall in the following  two
          years.


     *  Tax room of approximately 2.5 percent of  GDP  is  targeted  for
          other "general government"  bodies  including  provincial  and
          municipal governments.


     *  The national deficit is projected to rise sharply next year.


     *  Over the medium to long-term, a higher national deficit  impacts
          on debt-servicing costs. Debt servicing costs are expected  to
          decline, as a proportion of government expenditure,  over  the
          medium-term between 16 percent and 15 percent.


     *  Debt servicing costs  displace  funds  otherwise  available  for
          division between the 3 spheres to deliver services.


     *  Real growth of funds available  for  division  is  projected  to
          grow to nearly 6 percent next year  and  4  percent  over  the
          medium-term. This enables growth in  per  capita  spending  on
          constitutionally mandated basic services.


     *  The projected vertical division of revenue reflects  a  counter-
          shift from  the  national  to  the  provincial  sphere  and  a
          continued shift to the local  sphere.  This  may  reflect  the
          demands on the social security  and  health  systems  and  the
          consolidation of the new local government system.


 b)     Analysis of Provincial Budgets:


     *  Unconditional Equitable share funding continues to be  preferred
          over conditional grants as a mechanism for funding  provincial
          governments.


     *  Significant differences in the recent past  and  projected  real
          growth of social security, health and education  spending  for
          the 2002 MTEF have been narrowed.


     *   Healthy  real  growth  of  8.3   percent   is   projected   for
          infrastructure capital grants over the medium-term.


     *   Both  the   Integrated   Nutrition   Programme   and   HIV/AIDS
          conditional grants have been substantially consolidated.


 c)     Analysis of Municipal Budgets:


     *  Evidence from the  recent  past  reflects  that  89  percent  of
          municipal revenue is collected from own sources. However, most
          of this is collected by Metropolitan authorities.  Many  rural
          local and district councils are heavily reliant on funds  from
          national government.


     *  Municipal deficits have been rising in the  recent  past  to  an
          average 2.5 percent of municipal budgets in 2000/1.


     *  Real  annual  growth  of  15  percent  for  LES  allocations  is
          projected. This will enable growth in per capita  spending  on
          basic municipal services.


 8.     CIVIL SOCIETY


 FEDUSA - a labour-based body - and People's Budget (representing  views
 of COSATU, SANGOCO and the SACC)  were  civil  society  inputs  to  the
 Budget Committee.


 8.1    FEDUSA SUBMISSION


 FEDUSA acknowledges that  the  2003  MTBPS  and  MTEF  already  contain
 aspects  that  will  foster  growth  and  development   and   therefore
 employment, though they would like to see looser deficit  controls  and
 even more infrastructure expenditure.


 8.2.1  Perceived priority issues


 a)     Unemployment:


 As there is no short-term solution to this problem, in the  short  term
 it is necessary to provide for the unemployed and the poor by way of  a
 safety net. FEDUSA Welcomes the provision for social services  of  more
 than 57  percent  of  consolidated  non-interest  spending  (education,
 health, social security and other social services) in 2002/3 that  will
 increase by 3.6 percent in real terms over the MTEF period.  They  also
 welcome the increased provision of basic services  such  as  water  and
 electricity to households, especially in the rural areas.


 b)     Investment


 Welcome steps include:


 *  A  continuation   of   accelerated   depreciation   allowances   for
     manufacturing assets


 * Extended tax relief for small businesses


 * Increasing support for national research and development strategy


 * Increased expenditure on safety and security,  to  create  a  climate
     conducive to investment


 * Increased government expenditure in real terms over the MTEF period.


 c)     Savings


 FEDUSA feels  that  private  savings  should  be  encouraged  and  that
 retirement savings should not be liable for personal  income  taxation.
 The minister is urged to give serious consideration to an  increase  in
 the tax exemption level of savings, and to lowering the retirement fund
 tax rate substantially. Both will directly and indirectly  benefit  our
 levels of savings.


 VAT zero-rating should be extended to include basic  services  such  as
 electricity and water, regardless of the amount used. This would  be  a
 means of offering relief to lower income groups.


 d)     Local Government Finances


 A portion of the equitable share  allocation  could  be  used  for  the
 purpose  of  meeting  debt  demands.  A  concern  is  that   there   is
 infrastructure development with  no  upgrading  of  existing  services.
 Infrastructure maintenance should not just focus on roads,  but  should
 also prioritise water purification and sanitation.


 e)     Restructuring of Higher Education


 FEDUSA is  concerned  that  no  figures  have  been  provided  for  the
 restructuring. It questions the capacity of the higher education sector
 to manage all the proposed mergers while sustaining  ongoing  delivery.
 They referred the committee to  a  report  by  their  affiliate,  South
 African  Parastatal  and  Tertiary  Institution  Union   (SAPTU),   The
 Transformation and Reconstruction of  the  Higher  Education  System  -
 Labour Perspective.


 f)     Food pricing and the Basic Income Grant:


 FEDUSA feels that a basic income grant is not a practical  solution  to
 the problem of high food prices. When asked by the Committee to provide
 more detail on this, they felt that the basic income grant system would
 be fraught with fraud and corruption in that the money would not go  to
 the people it needs to go to.


 g)     Umsobomvu Fund:


 The success of the fund should be publicised, since a perception exists
 that the fund is not spending in line with its original intent.
 h)     Increased spending on HIV/AIDS:


 FEDUSA fully supports this.


 8.2    PEOPLE'S BUDGET SUBMISSION


 The People's Budget did not appear before the committee, but  furnished
 written  submission  setting  out  its  responses  to  the  MTBPS.  The
 responses relevant to MTBPS sections 5 and 6 are as follows:


 * The trend  to  increased  spending  is  welcome,  but  an  even  more
     expansionary budget could be  devised  by  avoiding  tax  cuts  and
     increasing expenditure-to-GDP rations.


 *  Allocations  between  national,  provincial  and  local   government
     spending  should  be  revised,  with  greater  increases  to  local
     government service delivery.


 * They welcome the modest real growth in spending on  social  services,
     but observe that, in many  areas,  expenditure  continues  to  fall
     short of the expectations outlined in the People's Budget.


 * Education, while welcoming the real growth in education spending, and
     planned Early Childhood Development and Adult Basic  Education  and
     Training commitments, People's budget  urges  proposals  to  reform
     the school fees system.


 * Increased allocations for health care are encouraging but  they  will
     be thinly spread over  additional  personnel,  HIV/AIDS  prevention
     and treatment,  hospital  buildings  and  rising  medical  supplies
     costs.


 * More alarming is the modest growth in welfare spending over the cycle
     of the MTEF, especially  in  view  of  government's  constitutional
     obligations and policy commitments. Government should  be  planning
     for dramatic growth in welfare spending  to  accommodate  extension
     of the Child Support Grant and preparations for the roll-out  of  a
     Basic Income Grant.


 * They applaud declining defence expenditure but call for  reallocation
     of funds to support job creation and peacekeeping.


 * They support plans to extend electricity and free basic services  and
     sanitation.


 * They express concern about the lack of resources available  for  land
     redistribution. They wish to see redistribution of  assets  coupled
     to  a  Basic  Income  Grant.  Housing  increases   are   also   not
     sufficient, in their view.


 In  administration  expenditure,  the  People's  Budget  welcomes   the
 earmarking of funds for the roll-out of HANIS, the 2004 elections,  and
 efforts to improve government's effective spending capacity.


 They reiterate their call for the introduction of a  multiple-tier  VAT
 system over the medium-term, coupled with measures to prevent retailers
 from profiteering. They affirm the work  of  SARS  in  encouraging  tax
 morality and compliance.


 On capacity to spend: They endorse the some of the successes which  the
 Minister cited in the MTBPS, but  point  to  the  need  to  avoid  easy
 recourse to "capacity problems" to explain  failure  to  spend.  It  is
 vital to conduct more thorough analysis of the obstacles  to  spending,
 as well as good planning and implementing practices that facilitate the
 efficient use of public  resources.  They  raised  concerns  about  the
 admission that almost R6 million in  infrastructure  development  funds
 were unused because they had not been properly allocated.


 Budget Documentation  and  Indicators:  They  call  on  departments  to
 develop a system of indicators to facilitate tracking  of  progress  in
 achieving targets and combating poverty. Data should be collected in  a
 manner that permits disaggregation by gender, income  level,  race  and
 province.


 SUBMISSIONS ON MTBPS


 The following appeared before the Joint Budget Committee:


 The National Treasury


 The National Department Public Works


 Department of Education


 Department of Social Development


 Department of Provincial and Local Government


 Department Health


 Department of Safety and Security


 Department of Correctional Services
 Department of Justice and Constitutional Development


 Department of Home Affairs


 Financial and Fiscal Commission


 FEDUSA


 Department of Trade and Industry


 The following did not appear before the Committee but supplied  written
 submissions:


 Department of Minerals and Energy


 National Department of Agriculture


 Department of Labour


 Department of Land Affairs


 People's Budget


 Report to be considered.

National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs on the International Trade Administration Bill [B 38B - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 76), dated 11 November 2002:

   The Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs, having considered the subject of the International Trade Administration Bill [B 38B - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 76), referred to it, reports the Bill with amendments [B 38C - 2002].

                   TUESDAY, 12 NOVEMBER 2002
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 11 November 2002  in  terms
     of Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bill  as  a  section
     75 Bill:


     (i)     Local Government:  Municipal  Structures  Second  Amendment
          Bill [B 68 - 2002].


 (2)    The following Bill was introduced by the  Minister  for  Justice
     and Constitutional Development  in  the  National  Assembly  on  12
     November 2002 and referred to the  Joint  Tagging  Mechanism  (JTM)
     for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)      Constitution  of  the  Republic  of  South  Africa  Fourth
          Amendment Bill [B 69 - 2002]  (National  Assembly  -  sec  74)
          [Bill and  prior  notice  of  its  introduction  published  in
          Government Gazette No 23941 of 11 October 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio  Committee  on  Justice
     and Constitutional Development of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to the  JTM  within  three  parliamentary
     working days.

National Council of Provinces:

1. The Chairperson:

 (1)    Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:


     Bills  passed  by  National  Assembly  on  12  November  2002   and
     transmitted for concurrence:


     (i)     Adjustments Appropriation Bill  [B  66  -  2002]  (National
          Assembly - sec 77) (referred to Select Committee on Finance).
     (ii)Revenue Laws Amendment Bill [B 67 - 2002] (National Assembly  -
          sec 77) (referred to Select Committee on Finance).

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:

 (a)    Proclamation No R 73 published in Government  Gazette  No  23951
     dated 18 October 2002: Referral  of  Matters  to  existing  Special
     Investigating Units and Special Tribunals, made  in  terms  of  the
     Special Investigating Units and Special Tribunals  Act,  1996  (Act
     No 74 of 1996).


 (b)    Proclamation No R 74 published in Government  Gazette  No  23951
     dated 18 October 2002: Referral  of  Matters  to  existing  Special
     Investigating Units and Special Tribunals, made  in  terms  of  the
     Special Investigating Units and Special Tribunals  Act,  1996  (Act
     No 74 of 1996).


 (c)    Proclamation No R 75 published in Government  Gazette  No  23973
     dated 25 October 2002: Referral  of  Matters  to  existing  Special
     Investigating Units and Special Tribunals, made  in  terms  of  the
     Special Investigating Units and Special Tribunals  Act,  1996  (Act
     No 74 of 1996).


 (d)    Proclamation No R 76 published in Government  Gazette  No  23973
     dated 25 October 2002: Referral  of  Matters  to  existing  Special
     Investigating Units and Special Tribunals, made  in  terms  of  the
     Special Investigating Units and Special Tribunals  Act,  1996  (Act
     No 74 of 1996).


 (e)    Proclamation No R 77 published in Government  Gazette  No  23973
     dated 25 October 2002: Referral  of  Matters  to  existing  Special
     Investigating Units and Special Tribunals, made  in  terms  of  the
     Special Investigating Units and Special Tribunals  Act,  1996  (Act
     No 74 of 1996).

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Select Committee on Social Services on the Medicines and Related Substances Amendment Bill [B 40B - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 12 November 2002:

   The Select Committee on Social Services, having considered the subject of the Medicines and Related Substances Amendment Bill [B 40B - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

2. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the UNAFRI Statute for Prevention of Crime and Treatment of Offenders, dated 11 November 2002:

   The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Statute of the United Nations African Institute for the Prevention of Crime and the Treatment of Offenders (UNAFRI), referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Statute.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the RSA/Egypt Agreement on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters, dated 11 November 2002:

   The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Arab Republic of Egypt on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the RSA/Algeria Agreement on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters, dated 11 November 2002:

   The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Democratic People’s Republic of Algeria on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the RSA/Nigeria Treaty on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters, dated 11 November 2002:

   The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Treaty between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Federal Republic of Nigeria on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Treaty.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the RSA/France Agreement on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters, dated 11 November 2002:

   The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Agreement on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the French Republic, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the RSA/Egypt Extradition Treaty, dated 11 November 2002:

   The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Extradition Treaty between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Arab Republic of Egypt, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Treaty.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the RSA/Algeria Extradition Agreement, dated 11 November 2002:

   The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Democratic People’s Republic of Algeria on Extradition, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement. Report to be considered.

2. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the RSA/Nigeria Extradition Treaty, dated 11 November 2002:

   The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Extradition Treaty between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Treaty.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the RSA/China Extradition Treaty, dated 11 November 2002:

   The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Treaty between the Republic of South Africa and the People’s Republic of China on Extradition, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Treaty.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on Employment Benefits of TRC Staff, dated 11 November 2002:

   The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered documents regarding the remuneration, allowances and other employment benefits of the staff of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, tabled on 19 March 2002 in terms of section 9(2)(a) of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act, 1995 (Act No. 34 of 1995), and referred to the Committee, recommends, pursuant to section 9(2)(b) of the said Act, that the determination as set out in the said documents is in order and that the Council take no further action.

 Report to be considered.