TUESDAY, 20 AUGUST 2002 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:05.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Ms J MOLOI: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  a female prisoner at Bethel Prison was  forced  to  deliver  her
       baby within prison walls, whilst paramedics waited  outside  the
       prison gates; and


   (b)  the security guard who should have been on duty  at  the  prison
       gates was asleep when emergency services  arrived  to  help  the
       female inmate;

(2) believes that this incident reflects challenges that every patriot faces in building a caring society that caters for the rights of women;

(3) further notes that the African National Congress regrets the lack of prompt and timeous action by the officials in the Department of Correctional Services, which led to the female prisoner giving birth with the assistance of inexperienced and untrained staff; and

(4) calls on the department to expedite the investigation into the allegation that a security officer was asleep whilst on duty, thus putting the lives of the mother and the baby at risk.

[Applause.]

Mr A J BOTHA: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting I shall move:

That the House -

(1) deplores -

   (a)  the arrests of ordinary farmers, including that of Crawford  von
       Abo, a prominent  South  African,  while  visiting  Zimbabwe  to
       attend to the needs of his staff there; and


   (b)  the ongoing silence of  the  South  African  President  and  his
       Government on what amounts to ethnic cleansing in Zimbabwe;

(2) reminds the ANC that State theft of land was theft when it was done under the National Party, and remains theft in Zimbabwe under Robert Mugabe, despite what his laws may say; and

(3) urges South Africa to follow the lead of many governments which have successfully intervened on behalf of their citizens in Zimbabwe, whereas our Government has failed to do so.

[Applause.]

Mr J H SLABBERT: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) notes that on Friday the CEO of Spoornet, Zandile Jakavula, was dismissed by Transnet for, amongst other things, failing to accept demotion as punishment for corporate irregularities at Spoornet;

(2) notes with appreciation the strong stance taken by Transnet and its subsidiary, Spoornet, in rooting out corruption amongst employees; and

(3) calls on the Government and all parastatal organisations to fight corruption with all the means at their disposal.

Ms H F MALEBANA: Madam Speaker I give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the Minister of Labour, the hon Membathisi Mdladlana, has set a minimum wage of R650,00 for domestic workers in rural areas and R800,00 in urban areas;

(2) further notes that the new legislative measures announced by the Minister also include -

   (a)  consideration of the availability of transport for the employees
       who have to work night shifts; and


   (b)  that  the  employees  will  be  entitled  to  annual  leave  and
       maternity leave;

(3) believes that his reflects the commitment of the ANC-led Government to -

   (a)  introduce legislative measures to protect  the  most  vulnerable
       workers; and


   (b)  further improve the quality of life of workers through extending
       basic conditions of work to include domestic workers; and

(4) commends the Minister of Labour, the hon Membathisi Mdladlana, for introducing new regulations which will protect domestic workers.

[Applause.]

Mr A Z A JAARSVELD: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House -

(1) notes with concern that a well-known South African farmer, Crawford von Abo, who has extensive farming interests, and his manager, Willem Klopper, were arrested on his farm in Zimbabwe;

(2) further notes that Von Abo’s arrest is a direct violation of the bilateral agreement between South Africa and Zimbabwe, which clearly guarantees the protection of South African-owned property and investments in Zimbabwe: This agreement was once again confirmed during recent discussions between the South African High Commissioner to Zimbabwe and the Zimbabwean Principal of Lands;

(3) calls on the South African Government and the Minister of Foreign Affairs to immediately enter into negotiations with the Zimbabwean government to -

   (a)  release Mr Von Abo and Mr Klopper; and


   (b)   reaffirm  the  protection  of  South   African   property   and
       investments in Zimbabwe in terms of the bilateral agreement.

[Applause.]

Mr S ABRAM: Madam Speaker, I give notice that at the next sitting I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes the unabated continuance of farmer evictions and arrests in Zimbabwe, including amongst others, the arrest of Crawford von Abo, a Free State farmer also farming in Zimbabwe, where over a thousand people are in his employ;

(2) further notes that agriculture remains a pivotal sector in the SADC economy, also in respect of food security;

(3) acknowledges that HDIs must have accelerated access to land and be developed as viable role-players in the agricultural sector;

(4) notes with appreciation the efforts of Government in attempting to secure the release of arrested South Africans in Zimbabwe; and

(5) calls upon our President, as AU Leader to - (a) persuade Zimbabwe to halt evictions and arrests; and

   (b)  convene a summit  of  SADC  governments,  farmers  and  interest
       groups to map out a sustainable action  plan  for  land  reform,
       which will promote emerging farmer settlement, the sustenance of
       agricultural production, and mentoring by  existing  farmers  of
       all new entrants.

[Applause.]

Miss J E SOSIBO: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that Ms Phumza Makhanya-Ojowuro was appointed as Provincial Head: Legal Services to the SA Police Service in KwaZulu-Natal;

(2) further notes that female officers have played an important role in bringing down the level of crime and violence, yet they were not always visible at leadership levels of the SAPS;

(3) believes that this represents our Government’s commitment to gender equality and women’s empowerment; and

(4) congratulates Commissioner Phumza Makhanya-Ojowuro on her new appointment.

Malibongwe! [Praise the name of women!] [Applause.]

Dr C P MULDER: Mev die Speaker, hiermee gee ek kennis dat ek namens die VF op die volgende vergadering van die Huis sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) daarvan kennis neem dat wat tans in Zimbabwe met boere gebeur, diefstal, korrupsie, nepotisme en rassisme is;

(2) verder daarvan kennis neem dat -

   (a)  die meeste boere se grond van hulle  af  weggeneem  word  sonder
       enige kompensasie - dit is diefstal;


   (b)  slegs blanke boere se grond afgeneem word - dit is rassisme; en


   (c)  van die boere se grond aan bekende Mugabe-vriende gegee  word  -
       dit is korrupsie en nepotisme;

(3) kennis neem dat die Vryheidsfront van mening is dat president Mbeki en die Suid-Afrikaanse regering president Mugabe nou in die openbaar moet kritiseer oor die wyse waarop teen kommersiële boere in Zimbabwe opgetree word; en

(4) verder kennis neem dat die Vryheidsfront ‘n uitdaging aan president Mbeki rig om wit boere van Zimbabwe uit te nooi om na Suid-Afrika te kom, waar die Suid-Afrikaanse Regering landbougrond aan hulle beskikbaar sal stel om sodoende aan die wêreld te toon dat daar in Suid-Afrika vir wit en swart boere plek is om voedsel in belang van die land te produseer. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Dr C P MULDER: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that at the next meeting of the House I will move on behalf of the FF:

That the House -

(1) notes that what currently is happening to farmers in Zimbabwe is theft, corruption, nepotism and racism;

(2) further notes that -

   (a)  most farmers' land is being taken away  from  them  without  any
       compensation - that is theft;


   (b)  only white farmers' land is being taken away - that  is  racism;
       and


   (c)  some of the farmers' land is being given to  known   friends  of
       Mugabe - that is corruption and nepotism;

(3) notes that it is the opinion of the Freedom Front that President Mbeki and the South African Government should now publicly criticise President Mugabe for the manner in which steps are being taken against commercial farmers in Zimbabwe; and

(4) further notes that the Freedom Front issues a challenge to President Mbeki to invite white farmers from Zimbabwe to come to South Africa, where the South African Government would make agricultural land available to them in order to demonstrate to the world that in South Africa there is room for both white and black farmers to produce food in the interests of the country.]

Mr P J NEFHOLOVODWE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice on behalf of Azapo that at the next sitting of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  Fhulufhelani Netshitungulu,  the  11-year-old  girl  from  Venda
       whose disfigured  face  was  operated  on,  is  reported  to  be
       recovering well;


   (b)  her plight was highlighted  by  talkshow  host  Felicia  Mabuza-
       Suttle, who invited surgeons to offer  their  services  free  of
       charge; and


   (c)  Arwyp Hospital in Kempton Park sponsored the operation, while Dr
       Hennie Roos and Dr Mike Bouckaert offered their services free of
       charge;

(2) congratulates the two doctors, as well as the hospital staff and management for their spirit of ubuntu; and

(3) joins Fhulufhelani’s mother and family members in wishing her a speedy recovery and with all our hearts we say: ``Kha hule a fane na ndou.’’ [May she grow and grow.]

Dr I M CACHALIA: Madam Speaker, I give notice that at the next sitting I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  that thousands of women engaged in the  struggle  to  achieve  a
       nonracial, nonsexist and democratic South Africa; and


   (b)  Comrade Helen Joseph was one of the leaders and founder  members
       of the Congress of Democrats and played an active  role  in  the
       formulation of the Freedom Charter at the Congress of the People
       in 1955 in Kliptown;

(2) believes that Comrade Helen Joseph was one of the pioneers and played an important role in building a nonracial mass movement in the 1950’s and served as an inspiration to future generations of anti-apartheid activists;

(3) in this month of women’s emancipation pays tribute to our women leaders who have carried the torch of freedom during the dark days of apartheid;

(4) salutes the role played by Comrade Helen Joseph, a patriot and a veteran of the struggle; and

(5) vows to work towards the realisation of the progressive ideals that she lived for.

Wathint’ abafazi! Wathint’ imbokodo! [You strike the women, you strike a rock.] [Applause.]

Mr D K MALULEKE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting I shall move:

That the House -

(1) expresses the hope that the World Summit on Sustainable Development will pay attention to -

   (a)  the whole question of land redistribution; and


   (b)  food production and food security, with particular reference  to
       the impact of the Zimbabwean tragedy on Southern Africa;

(2) expresses its regret that millions of Africans are facing starvation, partly as a result of disastrous policies and governmental failures in the region; and

(3) urges the South African Government to ensure that the matter receives the attention which South Africa’s interests demand.

[Applause.]

Mr J H SLABBERT: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) notes that 235 police stations around South Africa require door locks;

(2) urges the Minister of Safety and Security to address the problem of faulty locks in cell blocks and the absence of locks on police station doors with the utmost urgency; and

(3) acknowledges that conditions at police stations around the country are not optimal for securing arrested persons, awaiting-trial prisoners and other alleged criminals.

The SPEAKER: Hon members, there are once more lots of private meetings in this House. Could we please heed what is going on in the Assembly.

Mr B M SONO: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  during recess  Members  of  Parliament  participated  in  public
       dialogues in Kimberley on legislation relating to children;


   (b)  these events provided members of the public with the opportunity
       to interact with legislators in a direct manner;


   (c)  they also allowed for Members of Parliament to hear the concerns
       of individuals and organisations providing services to children;
       and


   (d)  a draft Children's Bill has since been handed to the Minister of
       Social Development;

(2) commends the work done by the Members of Parliament who held these public dialogues, as these dialogues contribute to ongoing efforts to ensure that public representatives are accountable to the people; and

(3) calls on the Minister of Social Development, the hon Zola Skweyiya, to ensure that legislation in this regard is finalised at the beginning of the 2003 parliamentary sitting.

[Applause.]

Mnr A S VAN DER MERWE: Mev die Speaker, ek gee kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting van die Huis namens die Nuwe NP gaan voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) kennis neem dat -

   (a)  'n interministeriële veiligheidskomitee grensboere  gaan  besoek
       oor algemene plaasveiligheid;


   (b)  hierdie besoek in ooreenstemming is met 'n gesprek wat die  Nuwe
       NP drie weke gelede met Minister Lekota gehad het oor toenemende
       oorgrensveediefstal nadat die Weermag aan grense onttrek is; en


   (c)  die Minister onderneem het om -


       (i)    'n   gespreksmeganisme   tussen   die   Departement   van
              Verdediging, Departement van Veiligheid en  Sekuriteit  en
              Agri-SA in te stel wat grensprobleme sal hanteer;


       (ii)  groter weermagteenwoordigheid te  verseker  tydens  sekere
              tye van die jaar wanneer veediefstal meer voorkom; en


       (iii) 'n besoek aan die grense te reël ter voorbereiding van  'n
              ontmoeting met Lesotho se  ministers  van  verdediging  en
              van veiligheid en sekuriteit; en

(2) glo dat hierdie ondernemings nog ‘n bewys is van die sukses wat die Nuwe NP in sy konstruktiewe samewerkingsooreenkoms met die ANC het. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr A S VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice on behalf of the New NP that I shall move on the next sitting day of the House:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  an interministerial safety committee  will  be  visiting  border
       farmers regarding general farm safety;


   (b)  this visit is in keeping with talks held three weeks ago between
       the New NP and  Minister  Lekota  about  increased  cross-border
       stock theft since the  Defence  Force  was  withdrawn  from  the
       borders; and


   (c)  the Minister has undertaken to -


       (i)   establish a dialogue mechanism between the  Department  of
              Defence, the Department of Safety and Security  and  Agri-
              SA which will address border issues;


       (ii)  ensure greater Defence Force presence at certain times  of
              the year when stock theft is more prevalent; and


       (iii) arrange a visit  to  the  borders  in  preparation  for  a
              meeting with Lesotho's Ministers of Defence and of  Safety
              and Security; and

(2) believes that these undertakings are more proof of the success which the New NP is achieving in its constructive co-operation agreement with the ANC.

[Applause.]] LOSS OF LIFE IN EASTERN CAPE FLOODS

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, I hereby move without notice:

That the House -

(1) deeply regrets the loss of life in the Eastern Cape as a result of the flooding;

(2) expresses its sympathies to all those who have suffered damage and loss due to the floodwaters; and

(3) conveys its support to the people of the region as they begin to rebuild their communities.

Agreed to.

                    DONATION BY DANISH GOVERNMENT

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr J DURAND: Mev die Speaker, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor: [Madam Speaker, I hereby move without notice:]

That the House -

(1) notes the donation of R111 million by the Danish government which is to be paid out to South Africa over the next five years to combat poverty and violence against women as part of combating Aids; and

(2) welcomes this donation which will contribute significantly in addressing the fight against the abuse of women, as well as the combating of Aids.

Agreed to.

                          NATURAL DISASTERS

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I hereby move without notice:

That the House - (1) notes that -

   (a)  67 people were buried in a mud landslide in China;


   (b)  58 people died in Russia, 7 in Germany  and  another  7  in  the
       Czech Republic because of floods;


   (c)  580 people were killed in India because of floods; and


   (d)  five people died and seven went missing because of floods in the
       Eastern Cape, South Africa, over the weekend;

(2) further notes that -

   (a)   according  to  scientific  evidence,  hazardous  gas  emissions
       threaten the ozone layer and thus contribute to  global  warming
       and instability in global weather conditions; and


   (b)  these natural disasters have occurred on the eve  of  the  World
       Summit   on   Sustainable   Development   which   will   discuss
       environmental preservation and developmental issues;

(3) expresses its sincere condolences to the families and friends of the deceased; and

(4) expresses its solidarity to the people of the world and countries that have been affected by these natural disasters.

Agreed to.

       PEACE, DEVELOPMENT AND PROSPERITY: THE AFRICAN CENTURY

                      (Subject for Discussion)

Mr D J SITHOLE: Madam Speaker, hon Ministers and hon members, achievement of peace on the African continent has been and is still a central objective of the leaders and the people of the continent. In 1963 the leaders of the continent met and formed the OAU. In 2002 they again came together to form the African Union. This effort is in pursuit of unity of the African people and the continent.

It is through peace and development that we will achieve our desire for a better life, free from bondage and poverty.

Nepad’s objective of good governance and better utilisation of our resources is an indication that we had not struggled to enrich a few. The struggle was to provide a better and prosperous future for our people.

The freedom struggle is going on for economic emancipation and the ultimate defeat of poverty. Whilst these are noble objectives to work for, we, however, have to acknowledge that the road ahead is and will not be an easy one. When we fought for our political freedom, it was not easy. We lost gallant fighters who were not prepared to submit, but were committed to fight the continued subjugation and oppression of our people.

They laid down their lives for me and hon members to enjoy this freedom. We dare not fail them. We should not despair because of what seems to be a difficult road ahead. It is only through unity of our people that we can take our destiny into our hands.

Nepad will not be a panacea for all Africa’s problems, but it is a strategic intervention to confront not only our economic problems, but also to challenge the undemocratic and dictatorial regimes that exist on the continent. It does not help to complain about the existence of these regimes. It is true that those who want to portray themselves as democratic today, at one time held such regimes in high esteem.

The former US President Ronald Reagan, when receiving Savimbi at the White House in 1986, gave him the red carpet treatment. He was treated like a head of state and hailed as a freedom fighter. He was portrayed as a combatant by apartheid South Africa and other Western powers. It is those who supported and assisted Mobutu Seseseko who looted the Congo, who today want to prescribe what democracy is.

Plagued by proxy wars, the road to peace, freedom and prosperity will not be an easy one. African leaders have recognised that democracy, peace and development are the prerequisites for the creation of a better life. It is good governance, respect for human rights and the rule of law that will bring stability and create the environment conducive to development.

We fought for this democracy, and we must defend it. In defending democracy we must oppose and defeat ethnic chauvinism, religious intolerance and racial arrogance; intensify our fight against poverty, illiteracy and ignorance; distribute the continent’s wealth to all who live on it and share the scarce resources among all the people of the continent.

It was African leaders who denounced unconstitutional changes of government, and who expressed a commitment to rebuild states centred on the people and guided by the needs of the people. Our commitment to create a society in which human rights are jealousy guarded will unlock the potential and initiative of our people.

Yes, our challenge is enormous, but Nepad is bound to succeed as it is born out of African nations themselves on the realisation of the need to respond to their developmental challenges. The creation of the Council for Peace and Security is a major step forward. It therefore rests with this Parliament to expedite the rectification of the protocol creating this organ. This council will assist in making interventions to prevent and resolve conflicts.

It is our view that sustainable development and peace are two sides of the same coin. It is through peace that we will achieve sustainable development, and it is through sustainable development that we will see peace. To achieve the objectives of the World Summit on Sustainable Development, we need to ensure that the developed nations assume their share of responsibility. The war on terrorism cannot be a substitute for measures to protect the earth and its people from the consequences of global warming and climate change.

It was African leaders who set themselves goals and objectives to be achieved through Nepad. It was African leaders who pronounced the need to respect the rule of law. It was African leaders who condemned military coups d’etat against democratically elected governments. It was African leaders who saw the centrality of the masses in the transformation. It was African leaders who saw the critical role to be played by a Pan-African Parliament as a public forum for accountability. The African century is the century full of hope and hard work. We will not succeed if some of our brothers see themselves as representatives of the interests of our former colonial masters. The African century is nothing but the African taking her own future into her own hands.

Mr C W EGLIN: Madam Speaker, the inaugural summit of the African Union held in Durban last month has come and gone. South Africa as the host country can be pleased with a job well done.

Congratulations are due to hon President Mbeki, not only for his skilful induction as the first Chairperson of the AU, but also for the skilful way in which he steered the summit through its proceedings to a successful conclusion.

Thanks are due to the Department of Foreign Affairs, which was responsible for the arrangements and logistics, as well as the officials of the municipal, provincial and national spheres of government, all of whom played their part in contributing to the success of the event. However, we are now waiting for the bill of cost. And, I hope that this will not take the smile of satisfaction off the faces of South Africans! Now that the AU and its development programme have been launched, the time for words and rhetoric is over. The time for deeds and actions has arrived. Parliament can pass as many fine-sounding resolutions as it wishes to; we can indulge in self-congratulation, but these will count for nothing unless we, the people of Africa, start delivering on the commitments made for us by our leaders and ratified by our parliaments.

Taken together, the AU and Nepad constitute the most promising development to come from Africa in the post-colonial era. They hold up the prospect of a future for the peoples of our continent. However, success cannot be taken for granted. It is not going to come easily. It will require commitment, hard work, bold and creative leadership. It would involve tough decisions and focused policies.

Each one of us in civil society will have to cast off the psychosis of dependency and entitlement, and instead embrace the spirit of self-reliance and self-fulfilment. The rewards of success may be many, but so too will be the consequences of failure.

The stakes are high. The developmental goals set by Nepad are very ambitious. To mention just a few: by the year 2015 all children of schoolgoing age in Africa should be enrolled in primary schools; the infant and child mortality rate reduced two-thirds; the maternal mortality rate reduced by three-quarters; by 2005 implement national strategies for sustainable development and achieve and sustain an average Gross Domestic Product growth rate of above 7% for the next 15 years. That is a tall order.

However, a unique opportunity presents itself, and opportunities do not last for ever. If we do not use this opportunity now, and try to make it succeed as much as we can, Africa will languish in impoverishment and marginalisation for generations to come.

Where do we go from here to convert this wish list that is before us in this Parliament today, of peace, development and prosperity and turn it into reality? Firstly, the objectives and principles of the basic structural work of the AU have been put in place. Now it needs competent and dedicated women and men to make it work. Of course, a start must be made with basic structures in order to enable the AU to function. However, on the way forward, I suggest that priority be given, firstly, to the Peace and Security Council; secondly, to the Peer Review Mechanisms on Good Governance; thirdly, on the implementation of selected development programmes of Nepad to show, at least, that some progress has been made on the ground; fourthly, the AU will require financial resources based on a realistic budget of income and expenditure.

In a continent where poverty runs deep this will not be easy. There have been disturbing reports that President Ghaddafi, who we all know came to power through a military coup some 33 years ago, has been using his money power as part of a strategy in African politics. If these reports are true, it reveals an unhealthy state of affairs.

Recently, I came across this poster on a shop windows on a neighbouring country in the wake of Ghaddafi’s passage with his 60-vehicle entourage: ``Muammar Ghaddafi, architect of African Union’’. Well, Ghaddafi can claim that if he wishes to, but all I want to say is that I hope he does not become the AU’s paymaster.

I believe that Africa must start making real progress in the field of democracy, human rights, the rule of law and good governance, not because the developed world says that we must, but because we know in our hearts that there will be no peace, security, safety or development unless we have these things.

Fourthly, it was the leaders of Africa who made the commitments and pledges on behalf of Africa. They must demonstrate that they meant what they pledged. Each one of them who fails to honour the commitment that he made, diminishes all of us in Africa.

However, world leaders must be shaking their heads in sad disbelief to see the leader of a country just to the north of us making a mockery of this collective African commitment and, in the process, wrecking a once flourishing agricultural industry while hundreds of thousands of his people face starvation and famine.

And, no doubt, the world leaders will shake their heads even further when they see other African leaders, including the Chairperson of the AU, standing by silently while the very foundation of the AU and Nepad is being undermined. I believe that the AU and Nepad can succeed, but it is not going to succeed just by talking or by self-congratulation. It will require that we, the people of Africa, roll up our sleeves and seize the opportunity in a mood of self-fulfilment. More than this, it will require that our leaders, by their actions, demonstrate that they stand by their commitments that they made on behalf of Africa.

Yes, there can be peace, development and prosperity. This can be the African century, but, as I said when I started, the time for talking is past. [Applause.]

Mr M F CASSIM: Madam Speaker, the hon Eglin says the time for talking is over. I would like to begin by saying that the time for waiting is also over. Africa has triumphantly pronounced that this century will be the African century. We have also undertaken through the AU and the organs of the AU that will soon be put into place to try and secure peace to achieve development and confer prosperity on our continent.

Under normal circumstances this will be hard enough, even on a continent that is well resourced. In the reality that is Africa this is an extremely tall order. There is no leader in Africa who does not recognise this. Every leader knows too well the complexity and the enormity of the task. Success, however, is not impossible, and the African century can indeed come to pass. The path to that success, though, is very steep.

First of all, we have to consider the health of our planet. Whilst Africa slumbered all these centuries, the Western world, Japan and wherever great development has taken place, these countries have also taken a great toll on our planet. One hundred years ago, Victorian England spewed enough smoke from its belching chimneys to leave 100 kilogrammes of carbon in the air for each man, child and woman living then. The modern Western Japan subsequently would get industrial output, and growth contributed one ton of carbon for each of the six billion people who inhabit the earth.

Hon colleagues, I would like members to consider for one moment: for each single person that lives on earth, there is one ton of carbon that has not been disposed of in the atmosphere. Can members imagine what will happen when China really gets going as an industrial nation, and imagine what will happen when Africa stokes up the fires of its own industries.

At present Africa contributes only 3% of the carbon emission. How serious is this problem? I think, and all members have witnessed the massive floods in China, India, Europe, America, South Africa and northern Mozambique, this indicates that the world climate is changing, and that the critical mass towards the unravelling of the climates of the world is now taking place.

This is the backdrop against which we in Africa have to attempt to create growth and prosperity. The World Summit on Sustainable Development will have to make some very tough choices, otherwise we are witnessing one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse. The massive floods in these countries are not by pure chance; it is as a result of human intervention that these massive floods are occurring.

The second horseman of the apocalypse is the advancing desert. The human population, a mere 100 years ago, stood at just 1 billion. Today China and India have populations of a billion each, and there are over 6 billion people inhabiting the earth. This causes a demand on finite resources to be stretched to the point where the earth can no longer sustain this demand. Witness the depletion of the fish stocks in the North Atlantic Ocean as only one problem.

Here in South Africa, we may not have adequate water for all our inhabitants in just 18 to 20 years. Now, here again we need to take stock of how this continent is going to make progress towards peace and prosperity when the finite resources of the world are drying up. It is very clear that we can no longer compromise on issues of the environment; the dangers are both immense and imminent. The World Summit on Sustainable Development must force countries to do what is necessary before it is too late.

There are political problems of equal magnitude that face us. South Africa has been a miracle and a revelation by choosing democracy, pluralism, co- operation, transparency, accountability, freedom of expression and assembly. Our country gave itself the greatest start that any country has ever had. For us to impact on the rest of the world we need jealously to guard, as the hon Sithole said, these unparalleled rights. Our airwaves have to be free, so should be our press. Openness is a non-negotiable condition for progress. It would be a misguided notion to contain criticism and dissent. When that space to defer is gone, dissent becomes violent, goodwill vanishes and upheavals occur.

The economies of developing countries all over the world are in trouble. We are doing pretty well in South Africa in spite the trouble all around us. We are succeeding because ours is an open society where people may criticise the government or even the president without coming to personal harm. Our judiciary is independent, our chapter 9 institutions are similarly endowed. Our universities are also enjoying 10 years of unimaginable freedom. If we detract from any of these freedoms then everything will be lost. South Africa is the hope of Africa, and we must nurture the co-operation we have. We must strive for reconciliation in the thick of rejection. The African century can only materialise if the African Renaissance blossoms, and arts and thought flourish.

For the renaissance that is underway, and let us make no mistake about it, it is underway, we as parliamentarians have to do something that is a novelty in Africa. We as parliamentarians have to be seen to be holding the executive to account. Through fair and just oversight we will serve not only our country, but Africa itself. The Government has made great strides and, like Macbeth, it should not compromise the honour it has, as well as remember the golden opinions that we have bought from all sorts of people, which would be worn now in the newest gloss, not cast aside so soon.

The African century has to be built on the foundation of total democracy. We have the guarantee that as long as we look after our physical environment and our political environment, we will be able to make the impact that we are expected to. If we want to go down in history as the true champions of the continent, we have to encourage democracy and accept fair criticism by having open meetings, as we are doing in our committees, encourage public hearings, making this a people’s parliament, ensuring that we, too, are fully accountable to the electorate. We laid the best foundation for the African century.

As politicians we often forget that the greatest wisdom lies not with us who sit in here, but with the sovereign people who send us here. That sovereignty is theirs and theirs alone, that they have the right, as people, to govern themselves, as was promised in the Freedom Charter. As lawmakers we must therefore uphold all these freedoms enshrined in the Freedom Charter and ingrain them so much into our practices that they become a habit that we cannot break.

If, after 20 years, South Africa is still free, as it is now, and people still engage each other in dialogue and if reconciliation is achieved, the African century will indeed come to pass. For Africa to achieve what it wants to achieve, there is an enormous role that this Parliament has to play in ensuring that Africa indeed succeeds in its objective of making this the century of peace and prosperity. [Applause.]

Mrs M M MALUMISE: Madam Speaker, allow me to quote from what the President once said. He said:

There exists within our continent a generation which has been victim to all the things which created Africa’s negative past. This generation remains African and carries with it an historic pride which compels it to seek a place for Africans equal to all other peoples of our common universe. He went on to say:

This generation knows and is resolved that, to attain that objective, it must resist all tyranny, oppose all attempts to deny liberty by resorting to demagogy, repulse the temptation to describe African life as the ability to live on charity, engage the fight to secure the emancipation of the African woman, and reassert the fundamental concept that we are our own liberators from oppression, from underdevelopment and poverty, from the perpetuation of an experience, from slavery to colonialisation, to apartheid, to dependence on alms. It is this generation whose sense of rage guarantees Africa’s advance towards its own renaissance.

It must, therefore, be remembered that in the history of the people of Africa, the people’s struggles against colonialism, racism and apartheid, women were at the forefront of those battles. They were at the forefront of the struggle for the emancipation of our society.

On the peace front, it is very interesting to note that most of the war zones or conflict areas are where we have huge deposits of minerals, wealth and natural assets. It is clear that the forces outside the continent have vested interests … Listen to this, hon members … [Interjections.] … in creating chaos, conflicts, anarchy, monopoly and exploitation of Africa’s wealth, hence we have blood diamonds … Van der Merwe! [Interjections.] [Laughter.] … in exchange for arms, which affects women and children negatively. Women are victims of rape. We should remember that Rwandan women were gang-raped, and they are now HIV-positive and are dying together with their children.

Women have no choice but to work for peace and stability in order to create an environment that is conducive to our girl children developing to their full potential. It is important, therefore, to involve women to be part of the peace processes on the continent because, firstly, they are not involved in the blood diamonds and arms trafficking. Secondly, we have not heard of our women in the military staging coups. [Applause.] Africa has been ravaged by war ever since its independence. Africa has never enjoyed peace. Africa never had an opportunity to sit down and plan for itself, because it is consistently engaged in talks on how to create peace.

In this time of war, women tend to concentrate on domestic issues, caring for the family, children and the elderly; caring for the sick and the injured. After the wars, because of the force used to solve problems, men tend to use violence even in solving family problems, instead of engaging their wives and children. South Africa is an example of this violence, hence the rape of women and children that we experience today. The apartheid state used violence to oppress its people. Therefore, people thought that violence was the only method of solving problems.

Regarding development, because of wars, development in Africa was stifled. The practice, internationally, in areas where there have been wars, is that when peace processes begin, international organisers and institutions, in their facilitation of peace talks, forget to include women. There is no home that can have peace and prosperity if women and children are abused. There can be no development without peace and stability. It is, therefore, up to all of us in Africa to seriously commit ourselves to working for peace and stability.

In this century, Africa has a bigger challenge of eradicating illiteracy. It is disempowering for women not to be able to read and write. Madam Speaker, you can imagine a woman of our age, you and I, whose secrets in a letter are being read to her by a nine-year-old or twelve-year-old child. Where will our privacy be? Where will our dignity be? This is the area where our girl children’s problems and needs should be seriously addressed. Compulsory education should focus more on the girl child. As members know, at the beginning of each year, in most of our countries, people move to the job markets to seek jobs. It is unfortunate that the girl child is left behind to take care of brothers and sisters, and runs the home in the absence of the mother. That is what is happening. Illiteracy gives grounds, or opens the way, for women’s human rights not to be respected - the rights to privacy and dignity.

Regarding family issues, it does not matter whether one is a trained teacher, nurse or social worker, one has, as a mother, to play all these roles. The social welfare Setas should acknowledge all this prior knowledge and find ways to accredit and give short courses for women. The role played by women is enormous, whereas little is said or written about them.

Regarding health issues, it is true that our people die young because of preventable diseases, which include malaria, TB, respiratory diseases, Aids, cholera, cancer, one can name them and many others. Due to a lack of basic needs in other areas, women remain behind to take care of their families and become victims themselves.

In conclusion, in this century - the African century - we want to see Africa putting basic needs as basic rights. Poverty and all forms of violence should be eliminated. Finally, as the late O R Tambo once said:

Our nationalities and social emancipation will never be complete if we continue to treat the women of our continent as dependent minors and objects of one form of exploitation or another.

[Applause.]

Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Madam Speaker, the previous speaker referred to her age and to that of the Speaker, but may I remind her that the hon Speaker is still under 50.

Despite his huge contribution to the ultimate independence of Africa, Kwame Nkrumah had it wrong when he said: First seek the political kingdom, and the rest will follow.'' What mostly emanated from the political kingdom was war, famine, poverty and corrupt rule. Being heavily under the influence of the Soviet Union at the time, Nkrumah should have instead followed the advice of Karl Marx, who said:First seek the economic kingdom and the rest will follow.’’ I am sure the hon Minister Essop Pahad will agree with me, although he no longer serves on the executive committee of the Communist Party. [Laughter.]

The launch of the African Union in Durban last month was precisely to restore the economic kingdom on the continent. By the way, the great brother leader Ghadaffi is not the architect of the African Union, as claimed by posters splashed all over South Africa and Swaziland, and shown to the House by the hon Colin Eglin. President Thabo Mbeki is undoubtedly the architect of the African Union in its present form, which is light years away from Ghadaffi’s vision of a united states of Africa under one supreme leader, and guess who that is supposed to be!

The African Union and its programme of action, Nepad, is Africa’s last hope to propel peace, development and prosperity on the continent. The Peace and Security Council of the African Union, earmarked to become a very important organ of the union, will play an important role in promoting peace, security and stability in Africa.

The draft protocol relating to the establishment of the African Union acknowledges, and I quote:

… the fact that no single internal factor has contributed more to socioeconomic decline on the continent and the suffering of the civilian population than the scourge of conflicts within and between states.

It is also important to note that the Assembly of Heads of State regards democracy as an important mechanism to promote peace. The Assembly of Heads of State agreed in Durban that:

… regular elections constitute a key element of the democratisation process, and therefore are essential ingredients for good governance, the rule of law, the maintenance and promotion of peace, security, stability and development.

The fact that democracy promotes peace is underpinned by the fact that no democratic state has ever declared war on another democratic state. It must, however, be pointed out that the mere fact that elections are held is no guarantee for peace. Elections must be free and fair, otherwise it will cause conflict.

Lesotho is a case in point where rigged elections a few years ago led to civil war. In Zimbabwe tension is still running high due to a perception that the elections were all but free and fair. Whilst democratic processes play a crucial role in promoting peace, the root causes of conflict on the continent will have to be addressed.

Disregard for minority rights continues to be one of the most common sources of conflict in Africa. Africa must stop paying lip service to the content of their own bible, the African Charter on Human and People’s Rights, and start implementing the provisions thereof in practice.

Once people belonging to minorities have the right to enjoy their own culture, to practise their own religion, and to use their own language, the conflicts will wither away until it finally stops. It is essential that the African Commission on Human and People’s Rights becomes an organ of the African Union.

Die beëindiging van die burgeroorlog in Angola, en die vredesooreenkoms wat uiteindelik in die Demokratiese Republiek van die Kongo gesluit is, sal die weg baan vir ‘n stabiele Suider-Afrikaanse streek wat die enjinkamer kan word vir ekonomiese ontwikkeling op die vasteland.

President Mbeki se volgehoue pogings om vrede te bewerkstellig in die DRK kan nie hoog genoeg aangeslaan word nie. Die enigste vrot appel in die mandjie op die oomblik is nog steeds Zimbabwe. Mugabe se brutale onteiening van kommersiële boere se grond, en sy verkragting van die oppergesag van die wet, vervreem potensiële beleggers en is niks anders as ekonomiese sabotasie teen die hele streek nie. Hoe gouer hierdie ekonomiese saboteur sy amp neerlê, hoe beter vir die vooruitgang van die Suider-Afrikaanse streek. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [The ending of the civil war in Angola, and the peace agreement that was finally concluded in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, will pave the way for a stable Southern African region that could become the engine room for economic development on the continent.

President Mbeki’s continued efforts to bring about peace in the DRC cannot be commended enough. The only rotten apple in the basket at the moment is still Zimbabwe. Mugabe’s brutal expropriation of commercial farmers’ land, and his violation of the supremacy of the law, are alienating potential investors and are nothing short of economic sabotage against the whole region. The sooner this economic saboteur steps down from his position, the better for the prosperity of the Southern African region.]

The arrest of a prominent South African farmer, Crawford von Abo, is totally unacceptable and clearly violates the bilateral agreement between South Africa and Zimbabwe pertaining to the protection of investments. We urgently call on the South African Government to do everything in its power to facilitate the release of South African citizens arrested in Zimbabwe, and to safeguard their investments, as guaranteed by the aforesaid agreement. The engine that will drive economic development on the continent in order to eradicate poverty and pave the way for prosperity is undoubtedly the New Partnership for Africa’s Development. The underlying principle of Nepad is that the developed world should invest in Africa and open their markets to African products in return for adherence to democracy, good governance and peace by African states.

Unfortunately, the decision by African governments to nominate Libya to chair the next United Nations Commission on Human Rights poses serious questions about the commitment to human rights and democratic principles which underpin both the Constitutive Act of the African Union and the Nepad document. Human Rights Watch correctly pointed out:

Putting Libya forward as Africa’s choice to lead the world’s human rights forum should really ring alarm bells.

If it is still possible for the African Union to withdraw their recommendation, they should not hesitate to do so immediately.

Dit is ‘n eenvoudige waarheid. Sonder vrede sal daar nooit ekonomiese ontwikkeling op die vasteland plaasvind nie, en sonder ekonomiese ontwikkeling sal voorspoed en vooruitgang Afrika bly ontwyk. [Applous.] [This is a simple truth. Without peace there will never be economic development on the continent, and without economic development, prosperity and progress will continue to evade Africa. [Applause.]]

Mr W G MAKANDA: Madam Speaker, peace and prosperity in the African century will only come to Africa when the African Union and its member states and those currently outside the union accept the responsibility to shape their own destiny and take the necessary initiatives to chart the course towards the realisation of that destiny. This entails acknowledging the realities of African history. Africa’s underdevelopment is a direct consequence of the continent’s colonial and imperial history. The African economic potential cannot be unlocked without correcting historical colonial imbalances.

The economic relations which have given rise to these material imbalances have been handed down to today’s generation as a legacy that cannot be wished away by pretending and talking ourselves into believing that it does not exist. Nowadays, the African governing elites have developed a selective amnesia which makes them conveniently forget that they had embarked on anti-colonial and anti-racist struggles in order to change the socio-ecopolitical order that subjected millions of Africans to conditions of poverty, disease, ignorance, destitution and servitude. Once the voters of these destitute and illiterate millions put them in power, they became prolific and resourceful authors of economic policies that perpetuate the status quo, while jettisoning the philosophy that hitherto had been the bedrock of the revolutionary struggle - all in the name of the new uni- polar situation and globalisation.

It is important to remember that globalisation began with colonial conquest. Imperialism laid the foundations of a global economy with deep- rooted disparities between the north and the south. Modern technology merely accentuated and put the seal on a process that began centuries ago.

We cannot improve imperialism. By the same token we cannot humanise globalisation without dismantling the imperial edifice on which it stands. The classical scholars understood and articulated the view that monopoly capitalism by its very nature provides surplus capital that cannot be absorbed by the core economies because consumption does not correspond more closely to production. Consequently surplus profit is exported for investment in the peripheral economies of the client states. This peripheral investment does not necessarily conform to a rational economic development plan that has been locally designed to meet domestic needs.

Paul Baran contends that surplus profit in the periphery is not utilised for further development of the latter economy, but is siphoned off and repatriated for development of the core metropolitan overseas economies, hence the disparity in the levels of development between the core and the periphery.

The advocates of Nepad must therefore understand that the African millennium presupposes a radical shift in the economic balance of power between the north and the south. This cannot be done by the north as a philanthropic gesture. Africans themselves must take charge of their economies. They must take ownership and control of their raw materials, beneficiate them locally and expand and sustain the local economic base, rather than be mere sources of cheap raw materials. The Government must intervene directly and provide infrastructure, create a favourable material environment for rapid development and transformation of social conditions. Empowerment must be broad-based and filter down to the groundswell. Amandla ebantwini! [Power to the people!] [Applause.]

Mr L ZITA: Madam Speaker and hon members, the economic development of Africa and the transformation of her economy in a manner that addresses the interests of the majority of her people, is one of the most challenging questions that face her.

This was the question that arrested the attention of Nkrumah, Cabral, Machel, Kaunda, Nyerere and Oliver Tambo. Without the resolution of this question, one can say that the revival of our continent will seriously be at risk.

In today’s debate we want to examine the role and place of trade in reinforcing the renaissance of the continent’s economy. It would, however, be remiss of us to look at trade outside of the economic structures of the continent.

The possibilities and gains that can be derived from trade are an expression of the levels of development, particularly the extent of industrialisation. Most African countries, with the partial exception of South Africa and Egypt, are essentially rural economies. Even where urbanisation exists, this is merely a conglomeration of centres of poverty with nothing similar to urbanisation as we have come to know it in the developed world. This is urbanisation without industrialisation.

Why is this the case? Africa’s encounter with modernity and modernisation was imposed. We were dragged out of a tributary mode of production into the modern capitalist system through colonialism. The result of this violent integration was that the economic system that emerged was not at the behest of the people of the continent. The people were subordinated to an alien logic, a logic more informed by the needs of the developed world, serving both as a source of raw materials in the market for manufactured products.

This under-development created a continent dominated by agriculture and mining, with extremely limited beneficiation and value addition. As a result, there was no possibility for the development of complementarities that could underpin the evolution of a nationally organic and autocentred development capable of absorbing the rural sector.

This historical impotence is not just an expression of economic factors alone, important as these are. It is a reflection of the complicated and incomplete class formation on the periphery of the world system.

Due to the limited profits of primary products as a result of limited domestic markets and changes in the terms of trade in international markets, there are limited savings to catalyse a sustained programme of import substitution and subsequently export-oriented industrialisation. This results in very shortsighted economic activity and risk aversion for long-term investments and, therefore, the generalisation of merchandise activity without productive investments.

Relatedly, the entrepreneurial classes in the developing world are not well formed. With limited profit margins and declining revenues, it is difficult for them to lead their societies on a project of development that is sustainable. There is nothing in the modern sector to redistribute. This constraint prevents them from winning the popular classes on a sustainable alliance capable of creating a historic block of forces that can lay a genuine foundation for nation-building. Thus, the continuing threat of tribalism. Critically, therefore, in the development of a strategy for economic development, is the need to define the class basis and alliance to drive the project of African reconstruction.

The weaknesses of the entrepreneurial and dominant classes in Africa are partially the reason for the debt trap that the continent faces. This debt has risen to such an extent that more than half of the export earnings of African states have to service the debt.

After World War I, all progressive opinion, including that of Maynard Keynes, felt that it was unacceptable, unjust and unsustainable for Germany to pay 7% of her foreign exchange to war debt, yet it is deemed sustainable for Tanzania to pay 60% of her foreign exchange to debt. Is this not racism? It is clear that without the cancellation of the debt there is no prospect of any sustainable development.

These problems of industrial development are further complicated by the technological and structural transformations in the capitalist developed centres, the evolution of a post-Fordist and post-industrial capitalism which grows with absorbing labour. The generalisation of this system at a global level will further exacerbate the already high levels of unemployment in the Third World. This is the impasse and tragedy of the economic system today.

Why trade? The question of the centrality of trade is due to the fact that it is seen as a source of foreign exchange, as a result of the limited domestic markets in most of Africa. The critical role of trade has also been displayed in the phenomenal development of East Asia. However, the reason why the so-called Asian tigers were able to make maximum gains from trade was due to the diversity of the economic structure, leading to their competitiveness in the export of manufactured goods. This economic capacity was a result of the role of the state in the economy and its capacity to incentivise and discipline capital. More useful, in the East Asian experience, was the notion of shared growth, manifested, amongst others, through a popular-based land reform programme. In talking about trade in Africa, it is critical that we emphasise the sustainability of that trade. It cannot just be trade based on the export of unprocessed goods. To the extent that it must, over time, involve the export of manufactured goods, trade promotion has to be located within the framework of the elaboration of the developmental state across the countries of the African continent.

The fact, however, is that at present in Africa we have to export primary products. Despite the fact that these products have no value addition for a variety of reasons, some of them are competitive. The problem is that this competitive advantage is undermined by the global trade regime.

Despite the loud noise of liberalisation, trade between the north and the south is not free. Through the combined use of subsidies, tariff and non- tariff barriers, the developed north has systematically prevented the developing world from accessing northern markets to sell products in which the south is competitive.

This inequity was partly due to the fact that the Third World and Africa, in particular, was ineffective in global trade negotiations. It was easier for the developed world to manipulate and divide the African bloc. This, however, is coming to an end.

For the first time there was a coherent voice from the continent, which ensured that in the most recent meeting of the WTO in Doha, the declaration embraced some of the key development concerns of the African continent. Of course, this is just the beginning. The devil, as they say, will always be in the detail.

More important for us to understand is that bringing justice to the world economic architecture is a medium to long-term initiative, and solutions have to be found for the short term. The establishment of the African Union will ensure that this emerging coherence and cohesion of the African continent is consolidated, so that the continent speaks with one voice. This will not be easy, but the proper foundation is being laid.

It is clear that the challenge of economic transformation in Africa cannot be reduced to trade alone, even though trade is important. There is a need to address other questions. We need to define the class content of the African transformation project. It cannot just be an elitist modernising project at the expense of the people. There is a role for the elite, but there is also a critical role for working people.

The political economy for the African Renaissance must be a multiclass project in which the capitalist, statist and socialist tendencies combine and conflict. Such a political economy is one that is most suited to the economic and social structures of the continent.

A fundamental feature of such a project has to be the pursuit of fundamental land and agrarian reform, cognisant of the fact that we are, for the foreseeable future, dealing essentially with rural-based societies. Undergirding such a project should be a developmental state.

Market forces, on their own, have failed to lead to sustainable industrialisation. An effective, flexible and strong developmental state is critical to mobilise the necessary resources and energies to facilitate accumulation and transformation.

The emerging post-industrial framework within which the African rebirth is taking place has interesting possibilities for rural-based societies. The new technologies in the form of micro-electronics, nanotechnology and the microform in which they appear, are most adequate for use in villages. Maybe Africa will modernise without urbanisation.

This is one of the fundamental questions that have to be posed and solved as we pursue the dream of an African Renaissance. [Applause.]

Adv Z L MADASA: Madam Speaker, the time for looting natural resources for personal gain on the continent is over. The challenges of the African Union are external, as well as self-inflicted.

Externally, the legacy of colonialism is still a problem in that some foreign colonial states still want to exercise exclusive control over their former colonies. Their motive for this is, of course, the plundering of resources. This factor is a major contributor to the ongoing conflicts within the African Union.

However, some African heads of state themselves are the problem. These leaders are overtaken by greed. They have become filthy rich at the expense of their own citizens. Democracy and good governance are the only antidote if the African Union is to prosper.

I repeat what the hon Jordaan of the ANC has said. He said that we must promote good governance, not because of the imperatives put on us by the Western world, but because of its intrinsic value. Only good governance and democracy will ensure even and fair distribution of resources in the member states of the African Union. In order to prosper, the AU must mobilise the existing resources in an efficient and co-ordinated manner before outside help is sought. There are enough human and natural resources on the continent, and therefore there is no need for Africans to go around begging for aid.

An inclusive political process will ensure everlasting democracy and peace on the continent. Some rebel factions on the continent exist as a result of exclusion from the political process. There are national constitutions on the continent which limit political participation. The AU must ensure that an all-inclusive democracy is promoted. South Africa, as the current chair of the AU, has a wonderful opportunity to promote these ideals.

Kambe ke zona iinkokeli ezingamasela nezibe imali mazivalelwe. Imali le ziyibileyo mayihluthwe inikwe abantu. Ukuba imbumba yama-Afrika ikhuthaza ukubanjwa kwala masela nezi nkokeli, ubusela buza kutsho buphele nendlala ife fi. [Of course, leaders who are thieves, who have stolen money, must be incarcerated. The money they have stolen must be seized and given to the people. If the African Union encourages the arrest of these thieves and leaders, theft will end and poverty will be eradicated completely.]

Dr P W A MULDER: Madam Speaker, I cannot remember how many times I have spoken from this podium about my dreams for Africa. I recently did so again during the hon President Mbeki’s debate here. I cannot remember how many times I have spoken from this podium, telling my supporters and all other Afrikaners that if Africa fails, we all fail with it. If this ship sinks, we sink with it.

In that sense I had planned to speak about my dreams for Africa today, but there is no way I am going to speak about them as long as there is a very serious situation unfolding in Zimbabwe. I have changed my speech because of that - a situation that repudiates everything I have said from this podium about the place of Afrikaners and of white people in Africa, making a contribution and playing a role.

The first question I must answer every evening at my public meetings is: Will the Zimbabwean situation repeat itself in South Africa? What must I tell them? I tell them what I think, but I am not willing to lie to my people. If the same is going to happen here, we need to know about it now. We will not leave Africa; we will just plan differently. Those are the realities.

In Zimbabwe it was first said that only the farms of farmers with British citizenship or dual citizenship would be part of the land reforms. At the moment the farms of farmers who have only Zimbabwean citizenship are being taken. Then it was argued that only the farms of farmers with more than one farm would be taken. At the moment there are several farmers in jail because they did not want to leave the one and only farm they had. Several farmers spent the night in jail after being brutally injured by the Zimbabwean police. Is that how I must try to understand African ubuntu, as it was explained to me? An old lady of 72 had to spend the night in a cell without blankets or any facilities. A farmer of 80 slept on cement in the same cells.

Ek wil agb lede vra of die Raad saamstem met wat in Zimbabwe gebeur. Steun agb lede dit? Ons moet dit weet en hulle moet dit vir ons sê, want hulle is op die oomblik doodstil. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[I am asking hon members whether this Assembly agrees with what is happening in Zimbabwe. Do hon members support this? We have to know this and they must tell us, because right now they are dead quiet.]

Meanwhile, the Mugabe elite are busy on the farms. The provincial governor, Peter Chenetza, well known to the ANC exiles when he was head of Mugabe’s protocol, is nick-named ``Five-farms’’ Chenetza. A cabinet Minister and head of the land task force, Ignatius Chombo, cannot decide which one of three farms near Rafingora he wants. Do hon members agree with this? Is this correct? Is this the Africa I am dreaming of? We need to hear from hon members.

Hierdie middag het ons ‘n vraag. Zimbabwe se boere word genooi na Mosambiek. Hulle word tans genooi na Botswana om daar te gaan boer en mense lewend te hou. Gaan hulle ook na Suid-Afrika genooi kan word? Is hier plek vir daardie boere, onthou dit is wit boere, om hier te kom boer? Kan hulle hier grond kry? Kan hulle hier ‘n bydrae maak? Is Suid-Afrika ‘n plek vir wit en vir swart, of is dit nie so nie? Ons moet dit vandag weet. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[We have a question this afternoon. Zimbabwe’s farmers are being invited to Mozambique. They are now also being invited to Botswana in order to farm there and keep people alive. Will they also be invited to South Africa? Is there room for these farmers, remember they are white farmers, to come and farm here? Can they obtain land here? Can they make a contribution here? Is South Africa a place for white and for black, or is it not? We have to know this today.]

Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Madam Speaker, much has been said about the AU formation in terms of what this institution is expected to achieve. Now the time has come for the AU to deliver. Although still new and busy setting up administrative capacities, the reality is the AU’s practical programme of action, which will by and large determine the differences in addressing substantively issues of peace, development and prosperity on the continent. The attainment of these issues should be used as a yardstick to measure the progress of the AU. The problems faced by AU member states are immense, but not insurmountable.

Africa is for the first time in years of oppression and imperialism experiencing relative peace and democracy, but not accompanied by any meaningful development. Therefore, Africa’s development is a pipe-dream for now unless we accelerate peace processes currently in motion in member states such as the DRC, and the implementation of poverty eradication programmes, debt management, trade relations and government’s anti- corruption campaigns.

We all know that the African wars were to a certain extent externally fuelled and funded by some developing countries to pursue their own objectives, economically and politically. However, we cannot continue to blame others for the greed and lust for power by our own African people who benefit from these wars and, as a result, once in power fleece government resources for themselves and their families while the majority are exposed to poverty.

The AU should, as a matter of urgency, establish a force that will not only observe, but also act decisively when the violation of human rights takes place and innocent people are killed, as has happened in Rwanda in the past. The AU should in a way create conditions in which African people will feel secure on their own continent.

Because of wars and instability, Africans are scattered all over the globe. We are losing much-needed expertise from our professionals who are based in other countries. The AU must at all costs pursue the achievement of peace. The reality is that development cannot take root in an unstable environment.

The AU must also, in its programme of action, continue to fight for the total scrapping of the debt that contributes to underdevelopment of member states. It is also not a secret that the major contributory factor is the unequal trade relations between the developed and developing countries that contribute to the high level of unemployment and currency devaluation leading to poverty.

The AU will have to advance the African agenda, being aware of the socioeconomic and political situation of the member in the quest for peace, development and a prosperous society.

Dr S E M PHEKO: Madam Speaker, most African societies have always held that peace is the mother of prosperity and that there can be no sustainable economic development without peace. That is why some of them have as their national motto: Kgotso ke nala. Peace begets prosperity.

Africa has immense wealth. Almost every mineral is found in Africa. Almost every agricultural product can be grown in Africa. In actual fact, other parts of the world, such as Europe and America, owe their wealth and development to Africa. Although this is unpalatable today, the truth of the matter is that Africa was underdeveloped by Europe and America through the trans-Atlantic slave trade and through European colonialism which used the wealth of Africa, but not for Africans. For meaningful sustainable development in Africa, to eradicate poverty, hunger, ignorance and disease, the following must be done:

Africa’s so-called foreign debts must be cancelled immediately. Former colonial countries and dealers in the sale of human beings must acknowledge that they owe Africa an enormous debt for this continent’s underdevelopment. The debt owed to the people of Africa in reparations is trillions of dollars compared to the debt claimed against Africa.

Africa must stop exporting her raw materials and importing them back here at exorbitant prices. Africa must maximise the study of modern science and technology in all her institutions of learning so that Africa’s people can acquire the technology to capacitate her to process her raw materials here and export them as finished products.

African epistemology in all spheres of life must be revived. Too much indigenous knowledge has been discarded under the influence of Westernisation. Africa can advance technologically without losing her soul. Of course Africa’s sustainable development must be conducted along the Pan- Africanist path. Nepad must be a firm economic arm of the African Union. Nepad will not bring any sustainable development to Africa if it depended on G8 countries. Africans must bear the brunt of their own development in the same way Africa’s freedom fighters struggled for political independence.

Of course, two important questions must be asked with regard to South Africa. Can there be sustainable development without land dispossession, where 77,6% of this country’s population is asked to claim crumbs from 1913, consolidated by the very Constitution which is supposed to liberate them? Can there be sustainable development where there is dragging of feet on treatment and prevention of HIV/Aids? This disease is an attack on our future. It kills mostly our youth who are not only our human resources for sustainable development, but who are our very future. Izwe lethu! [Our country!] [Applause.]

Ms F HAJAIG: Madam Speaker, comrades and colleagues, colonialism, imperialism and neocolonialism have pillaged, ravaged and looted the abundant mineral resources of Africa, leaving in its wake destitution, poverty, hunger, despondency, slavery, conflict over borders and scarce resources. Where there was stable government by consultation of village elders was left money-grabbing dictators, propped up by rich countries which needed Africa’s resources and paid a pittance for its minerals and its labour force. Against this backdrop we have to look at the problems Africa faces today and also the existing new vision for the twenty-first century.

We in Africa stand at the threshold of a great beginning. It is both exciting and challenging. The African Union and the New Partnership for Africa’s Development constitute the ways and the means we have chosen to take forward our goals, our visions of an African Renaissance and make the twenty-first century an African century.

Africa is the cradle of humankind. Africa is a continent which has the world’s largest deposits of mineral resources. Africa is also the most poverty-stricken continent in the world. Nearly half of sub-Saharan Africa’s 600 million people live on just 65 US cents per day. The vast majority of the least developed countries are in Africa. Of all the refugees in the world, the vast majority is in Africa. Of the children orphaned by Aids in the world by the end of this year, over 90% will be in Africa. The mortality of children under five years of age is 140 per 1 000. Life expectancy at birth is only 54 years. Only 58% of the population have access to safe water. The rate of illiteracy of people over 15 years of age is 41%. There are only 18 mainline telephones for 1 000 in Africa compared to 146 for the world as a whole and 567 for high-income countries.

Africa has the most unequal distribution of income of any region in the world. Income distribution is negatively skewed against women. Half of Africa’s children of schoolgoing age are not in school. This figure is even higher in rural areas and for the girl child. This means that most African women will grow up in a world of illiteracy.

Twenty-six African conflicts have taken place since 1963, affecting 61% of the population. Today 21% of Africa’s people are at war and in conflict. Poverty, political instability and war go together.

In the period 1990 to 1996 the OECD countries accounted for over 70% of global exports of goods and services, while the figure for Sub-Saharan Africa was less than two percent. In 1997 as much as 68% of the world’s stock of foreign direct investment was in the hands of the developed world, while Africa had 1,9%. After 40 years of independence in Africa, we are still struggling with the eradication of easily controllable diseases such as malaria, diarrhoeal infections and TB. The challenges are enormous. Social, political and economic transformation of any society is usually a product of hard work and willingness to go the extra mile on all sides of the divide.

How do we eradicate poverty? Twelve to fourteen million people are on the verge of starvation right on our doorstep in Malawi, Zimbabwe and Zambia. Conflicts are often caused by scarce resources. How do we minimise the risk of conflict and manage it, or more importantly, prevent conflict in the first place? The developmental state must have the responsibility to ensure that the socioeconomic programmes are in place to provide for the basic needs of this populace.

The state, together with civil society, must emphasise the desirability of certain practices and value systems, for example, the eradication of the practice of female genital mutilation in parts of Africa, or the unjust punishment in the name of Sharia law in some places.

Most countries in Africa are multi-ethnic. Therefore, there is a need for tolerance, pluralism. Most countries in Africa are multi-religious and need to accept and respect each other’s religion without imposing any religious tenet. Most countries in Africa are multilingual, some are multiracial, making it imperative to adopt a circular, multiparty, multi-ethnic, politically plural democratic government. Attempts to homogenise heterogenous societies must stop, because it is a sure recipe for conflict.

To truly make the twenty-first century an African century, one must take into account very seriously the question of women in the overall strategy in the promotion of Nepad. The human race can never be free if one half of it is in bondage. As we approach the dawn of the new millennium, a defining feature of our increasingly interdependent world is that it is accelerated by globalisation of production, trade, investment and finance. Our women cannot be left out. We cannot talk about globalisation, about the need for regional integration in a globalising world and still hold our women in contempt. Women have borne the brunt of Africa’s conflicts. They are the ones that are the most vulnerable in times of conflict and war. They are the ones that are widowed. They are the ones who face insecurity - physical and food insecurity. They are the ones that are left alone to pick up the country from its ruins. They are the ones that are left alone to bring up the country from its ruins. They are the ones that are left out in the decision- making processes. They are the ones that stimulate the conscience of society. They are the ones that mediate between warring factions. They are the ones that face hostility and the ones that nurse the wounded and traumatised.

The role of women as peace mediators is not in doubt, while Nepad strives to prevent conflict and, through it, provide solutions. Peace can no longer be just about peace-making and peace-keeping. It is also about peace- building and conflict prevention.

Women must position themselves and insist on good governance, but how is that possible when there is severe under-representation and disempowerment at all levels of decision-making, which is a severe subtraction from democracy. Women must become the focus of social spending, which has become a major casualty in structural adjustment programmes in many African countries.

To expect that Africa can progress when investment in human capital is declining is foolish and shortsighted, to say the least. Social investment challenges of health, education, housing, portable water and sanitation must be met. Women produce 70% of the food on the African continent, but there is no food security for them or their children. Intra-African trade must be increased. Access to the markets of industrialised nations must be sought so that goods from Africa which have a competitive edge can be exported. Artificially created tariff barriers must be removed. Artificially induced low prices due to massive farming subsidies in the EU, the USA and Japan must be removed.

I submit that unless gender is mainstreamed into all programmes of Nepad and AU structures, our development agenda will suffer serious delays. The energy of women in terms of human resources is not adequately used. This puts additional strain on African nations. Here the challenge is one of human resource capacity and institutional strengthening for the management of global competition. The length between women’s economic position and the economic imperatives of Nepad needs to be understood. Across the globe, especially in Africa, it is mainly men who are retained as core workers, and women are pushed into the more exploited periphery. Unless we address this, developing nations cannot move at the pace they need to. If we want to fulfil our objective of poverty eradication and a better life for the people of Africa and make this a truly African century, let us use all our resources.

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mev die Speaker, oor die mooi en edele ideale van ‘n Afrika- renaissance en die eeu van Afrika kan niemand stry nie. Vir eeue lank het Afrika bekend gestaan as die ``donker kontinent’’. Wie kan dan stry as Afrika homself verbind tot vrede, ontwikkeling en voorspoed vir al sy mense?

As iemand vandag van buite na hierdie debat luister, en hy bestempel dit as galgehumor, kan niemand hom kwalik neem nie. Hier staan ons ewe sedig en voer hoogheilige debatte oor vrede, ontwikkeling en voorspoed in Afrika, en juis op hierdie selfde oomblik word vrede, ontwikkeling en voorspoed in Afrika vernietig, hier neffens ons, net noord van die Limpopo: vrede - dit beteken nie net dat daar nie oorlog is tussen lande of volke nie. Dit beteken veel meer, soos ruimte vir mekaar, vir gemeenskappe, harmonie, veiligheid van bestaan. Dit word alles op die skandelikste wyse denkbaar in Zimbabwe verkrag. Blanke boere word soos misdadigers gearresteer omdat hulle ‘n wet ignoreer wat deur hul eie hof as ongrondwetlik verklaar is; ontwikkeling - terwyl Afrika sienderoë toekyk hoe dat dit wat oor dekades ontwikkel is, vernietig word aan die hande van ‘n magswellustige tiran; en voorspeod - terwyl ‘n voorste leier van Afrika sy eie mense verdoem tot armoede en hongersnood en ellende.

Nee wat, ons moet ophou grappies maak oor Afrika. Mooi en edel soos die ideale van ‘n Afrika-renaissance, Nepad en die Afrika-unie mag wees, solank as wat die adder aan eie boesem vertroetel word, gaan niemand ons ernstig opneem nie.

Die Bybel sê tog duidelik: Uit dieselfde fontein kan nie brak en soet water opkom nie. Afrika en die Suid-Afrikaanse Regering verkondig met die mond vrede, ontwikkeling en vooruitgang, maar verloën dit met die daad elke enkele dag dat Mugabe toegelaat word om een van die rykste lande in Afrika verder te vernietig. President Mbeki kan die aarde deurkruis om steun te werf vir die Afrika- renaissance. Klein simboliese gebare kan volg, maar die boodskap sal bly: Kry julle huis in orde. Indien die Afrika-Unie en Suid-Afrika as leidinggewende land in Afrika nie daadwerklike stappe neem om Zimbabwe en Afrika van mnr Mugabe te verlos nie, sal die organisasie gediskrediteer word tot ‘n niksseggende poppespel. Net een enkele, duidelike veroordeling deur President Mbeki sal dalk baie meer vir Afrika beteken as tien reise oorsee.

Verder waarsku die AEB dat Mohamar Gaddafi van Libië sy bekende magswellus wil bevredig deur homself in te wurm as die leidende figuur in Afrika en die vader van die Afrika-Unie wat uiteindelik een groot Afrikastaat moet word, met natuurlik die flambojante ridder van die wit limousine as leier. Daarvoor misbruik hy Libië se sterk finansiële posisie en ons moet daarteen waak.

Die AEB wil die edele planne van ‘n Afrikaherlewing steun. Hoe dan anders? Ons is dan self deel van Afrika. Ons verlede, hede en ons toekoms is in Afrika. Hier wil ons meewerk aan ‘n nuwe daeraad vir Afrika en sy mense. Kom ons bring die realiteite van Afrika in ooreenstemming met die mooi ideale vir Afrika. Kom ons hou op om die vinger te wys na verre lande in Europa en Amerika. Laat Afrika eers sy eie voorstoep skoonvee, en die ideale van vrede, ontwikkeling en voorspoed kan dalk net in werklikheid word. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.

[Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, no-one can argue about the beautiful and noble ideals of an African Renaissance and the African century. For centuries Africa has been known as the ``dark continent’’. Who can argue, then, when Africa commits itself to peace, development and prosperity for all its people?

Anyone from outside who is listening to this debate and regards it as sardonic humour, cannot be taken amiss. Here we are, primly conducting sacrosanct debates about peace, development and prosperity in Africa, when at this very moment that very peace, development and prosperity in Africa is being destroyed right next to us, just north of the Limpopo: peace - it means not only that there is no war between countries or nations. It means much more, such as space for each other, for communities, harmony, security of existence. All of these are being raped by Zimbabwe in the most scandalous manner possible. White farmers are being arrested like criminals because they are ignoring a law which has been declared as unconstitutional by their own court; development - while Africa looks on, aware of how that which was developed over decades is being destroyed at the hands of a power- drunk tyrant; and prosperity - while a prominent African leader condemns his own people to poverty, famine and misery.

No, we must stop joking about Africa. As beautiful and noble as the ideals of an African Renaissance, Nepad and the African Union may be, as long as the serpent is being cherished in our own bosom, no-one is going to take us seriously.

Surely the Bible states clearly: The same fountain cannot produce brackish and sweet water. Africa and the South African Government are advocating peace, development and prosperity with their words, but with their deeds they renounce it every day they allow Mugabe to further destroy one of the richest countries in Africa.

President Mbeki may traverse the earth to enlist support for the African Renaissance. Small symbolic gestures may follow, but the message will remain: Get your house in order. If the African Union and South Africa as the leading nation in Africa do not take decisive steps to rid Zimbabwe and Africa of Mr Mugabe, the organisation will be discredited into a meaningless puppet show. Just a single, clear condemnation by President Mbeki could mean a lot more for Africa than ten trips overseas.

The AEB further wants to warn that Muammar Ghaddafi of Libya wants to satisfy his noted hunger for power by wriggling himself in as the leading figure of Africa and father of the African Union, which eventually has to become one large African state with, of course, the flamboyant knight of the white limousine as leader. He is using Libya’s strong financial position to this end and we must guard against this.

The AEB wishes to support the noble plans for an African revival. How else could it be? We ourselves are a part of Africa. Our past, present and future is in Africa. We want to contribute towards a new dawn for Africa and its people. Let us bring the realities of Africa in line with these beautiful ideals for Africa. Let us stop wagging a finger at faraway countries in Europe and America. Let Africa first clear its own doorstep, and the ideals of peace, development and prosperity may just become a reality.] Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Madam Speaker, when we talk about peace, development and prosperity in the context of Africa, we are indeed considering peace options and developmental processes that are informed by the present material conditions in Africa.

At the same time, we are reminded of colonialism and colonialists who took turns in taking Africa’s wealth to Europe, in particular. It is important to take into consideration the fact that most African countries were over many centuries prevented from developing major local industries. Most of these countries were developed for exports of raw materials, with the result that agricultural and domestic capital accumulation stagnated.

The consequences of these designed industrial policies were dependent economies with large borrowings. Peace, development and prosperity in these circumstances would mean a complete turnaround of the factors that led to this state of affairs in the first place. Secondly, it means a recognition on our part of the power that former colonialists wield in the international development arena.

We should not lose sight of the fact that however peaceful Africa may want to be, we cannot achieve lasting peace and prosperity for as long as the Bush administration can bully other nations of the world.

The present-day international community, led by the developed countries, have consolidated themselves in the IMF and the World Bank to make it possible for these countries to control the developmental process. The power of the IMF and the World Bank should not be underestimated, especially in view of the fact that many African countries owe these institutions billions and billions of rands.

Our response to these powerful forces should be unity, irrespective of which countries in Africa are the favourite of these champions of underdevelopment. We should become masters of our own destiny, with the eradication of poverty as our long-term objective.

At this time of Africa’s development, there is therefore a need for capacity-building, to develop the human capital that will serve as an instrument for sustainable development, peace and prosperity.

Africa has come a long way, through struggle, up to this point. The struggle for peace, development and prosperity is a struggle we must win. [Applause.]

Mnr A J BOTHA: Mev die Speaker, vrede, ontwikkeling en voorspoed - die onderwerp van ons bespreking - is sekerlik die versugting van elke mens. Net so smag die inwoners van Afrika na daardie wonderlike dag wanneer hierdie toestand waar sal wees van ons hele kontinent.

Dit word algemeen aanvaar dat die vasteland van Afrika die geboortegrond van die mens is en dus alle mense wat vandag leef se oorspronklike moeder is. Dit is iets waarop al die kinders van Afrika trots kan wees.

Dit word ongelukkig net so algemeen aanvaar dat die inwoners van ons kontinent die laagste lewenstandaard in die wêreld het en dat dit nog steeds verswak. Afrika is die enigste kontinent waar die beskikbare voedsel per kapita steeds verminder. Die verskriklike hongersnood wat ten minste 13 miljoen mense in Suider-Afrika teister, onderstreep hierdie toestand besonder wreed. Hierop kan die kinders van Afrika nie trots wees nie.

Nogtans is daar hoop. In die onlangse tyd is daar ‘n vermindering in die chroniese oorloë wat Afrika so lank teister, en Suid-Afrika kan trots wees op sy rol hierin. Leiers in Afrika het ook nou die inisiatief geneem om verantwoordelikheid te neem vir ons eie toekoms. Die besef het posgevat dat geeneen na ons heil sal omsien indien ons dit nie self doen nie.

President Mbeki het in hierdie Huis gesê dat geen kind van Afrika ooit in die toekoms weer bang of honger moet wees nie. Daarmee stem ons almal saam. Dit is egter ‘n tragiese werklikheid dat miljoene kinders in Afrika elke dag bang en honger is. In baie gevalle sal dit ‘n lang tyd neem om dit reg te stel, maar in ander gevalle kan dit onmiddellik reggestel word. Dit hang net van onsself af. Binne een week vind die Aardeberaad oor Volhoubare Ontwikkeling in Johannesburg plaas. Daar kan onmoontlik nie ‘n beter geleentheid wees om aan die wêreld te toon dat ons ernstig is met betrekking tot ‘n beter lewe vir almal nie.

Daar sal reguit gepraat moet word oor die misdrywe van onlegitieme regimes op ons vasteland. Daar sal die wêreld se oë op ons wees om te kyk hoe ons hongersnood aanspreek wat Suider-Afrika teister. Daar sal die wêreld oordeel of ons bereid is om reguit te praat oor die oorsake van hierdie hongersnood, net so reguit as wat ons bereid is om te praat oor lande soos Amerika en Israel. So ver het ons dit nog nie gedoen nie.

Die VN se noodlenigingskantoor in Harare is in 1997 geopen om voedselvoorraad aan te koop vir noodleniging elders. Vandag is dit die grootste sentrum vir noodvoedselverspreiding in die hele wêreld. Die enigste rede hiervoor is Zanu-PF se ongehoorde verbod op landbouproduksie. Hierdie optrede is boonop ongrondwetlik, want die meeste mense in Zimbabwe het Zanu-PF se grondplanne in ‘n referendum verwerp - so onlangs as twee jaar gelede.

Die situasie kan egter binne maande reggestel word deur Zanu-PF te dwing om hul sogenaamde grondhervormingsrevolusie onmiddellik te staak ten gunste van geordende grondhervorming, soos wat reeds in Zimbabwe oor die afgelope twintig jaar plaasgevind het.

Dit sal die kommersiële landbou in Zimbabwe in staat stel om binne ses maande die hongersnood in oorvloed te omskep. Suid-Afrika moet die leiding neem by die aardeberaad om die hele Afrika, sowel as die res van die wêreld, te oorreed om Zanu-PF tot besinning te dwing.

Nie alleen sal dit die hongersnoodprobleem oplos nie, maar sal dit ook die ware hergeboorte van Afrika wees. Om dit nie te doen nie, sal ‘n misdaad teenoor die mensdom wees. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr A J BOTHA: Madam Speaker, peace, development and prosperity - the topic of our discussion - are definitely the desire of everyone. Concomitantly, the inhabitants of Africa are also yearning for the day when this will be the state of all of the continent.

It is generally accepted that the continent of Africa is the birthplace of man and consequently the original mother of all people living today. This is something of which all the children of Africa can be proud.

Unfortunately, it is equally generally accepted that the inhabitants of our continent have the lowest standard of living in the world and that it is still decreasing. Africa is the only continent on which the available food per capita is steadily decreasing. The terrible famine which afflicts at least 13 million people in Southern Africa underlines this condition in a particularly cruel fashion.

Still, there is hope. In recent times there has been a decrease in the chronic wars that have afflicted Africa for so long, and South Africa can be proud of its role in this regard. Leaders in Africa have now also taken the initiative in accepting responsibility for our own future. The realisation has dawned that no one will see to our wellbeing if we do not do so ourselves.

President Mbeki said in this House that no child of Africa must ever again be scared or hungry in the future. We all agree with that. It is a tragic reality, however, that millions of children in Africa are hungry and scared every day. In many cases it will take a long time to correct this, but in other cases it can be corrected immediately. It depends on us. Within a week’s time the Earth Summit on Sustainable Development will take place in Johannesburg. There could indeed be no better opportunity to show the world that we are serious with regard to a better life for all.

We will have to be frank about the misdeeds of illegitimate regimes on our continent. The world’s eyes will be upon us to see how we address the problem of famine which is raging in Southern Africa. The world will judge whether we are prepared to talk frankly about the causes of this famine, just as frankly as we are prepared to talk about countries such as America and Israel. Thus far we have not done so.

The UN’s relief office in Harare was opened in 1997 to purchase food supplies for relief elsewhere. Today it is the largest centre for the distribution of food relief in the whole world. The only reason for this is Zanu-PF’s unprecedented ban on agricultural production. Such conduct is even unconstitutional because the majority of Zimbabwe’s people have rejected Zanu-PF’s land plans in a referendum - as recently as two years ago.

The situation could, however, be rectified within a few months’ time by forcing Zanu-PF to immediately stop their so-called land reform revolution in favour of a structured land reform plan, such as the one that has been in place in Zimbabwe for the past twenty years.

This would enable commercial agriculture in Zimbabwe to convert famine into abundance within a six-month period. South Africa should take the lead at the earth summit to convince the whole of Africa, as well as the rest of the world, to force Zanu-PF to reconsider.

Not only would that solve the problem of famine, but it would also represent the true rebirth of Africa. To refrain from doing so would be a crime against humanity. [Applause.]]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, at the outset, let me thank all the speakers for their contributions today. Some people are suffering from failed dreams, and for some the spectre of communism has been reflected or replaced by the spectre of Ghaddafi and Mugabe, but I want to believe that the vast majority of people have made positive contributions to this debate. I think their contributions have shown a growing maturity that is developing in our Parliament, especially on the side of some opposition members.

No longer do we see South Africa as a European outpost on the African continent, but we see South Africa as an African country on the African continent. [Interjections.]

Therefore, together we are able to look at the problems that we face on our continent and together we can work to see how we can deal with it. I think what is important for us to reflect upon is that the vision of the African Renaissance is not a new one. Many of our leaders in the late eighteenth, nineteenth and twentieth centuries put forward demands and calls for an African Renaissance. Unfortunately, as some of the speakers have said, slavery, colonialism, neo-colonialism, indeed, the Cold War prevented this vision from being achieved.

I want to believe that we are now in a position, given the fact that democratic South Africa is a part of Africa in a real sense and the different international balance of forces, to achieve this renaissance that we all need so much. As many speakers have said, Africa has tremendous potential, yet it is the poorest continent in the world.

It is clear, as the statistics show, that the vast majority of our people live below the one-dollar-a-day poverty datum line. This cannot continue, because if it does, we will not be able to sustain our drive for democracy, human rights, good governance, peace and stability.

Indeed, I want to say that the African renewal will not be easy. We are now faced with a situation of globalisation where all the statistics show that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, and at present conditions in Africa tend to get more marginalised.

So, we have to work together as a country, a nation, and as a part of the African continent, to deal with the African renewal, not as an academic exercise, but in the interests of ourselves.

I also want to say to some of my colleagues that the developed countries have a responsibility, because there is now no Chinese wall that separates the developed from the developing and the very poor countries. Issues like terrorism, HIV/Aids and other infectious diseases, international crime syndicates and environmental degradation know no boundaries.

So, it is in the interests of the developed countries to see how - for their own future and stability - they can be a part of the renewal of the world, generally, in terms of a better world order, and specifically the African Renaissance. [Interjections.]

Well, the developed countries took so much from us, we need it back - it is not a handout!

Let me also say that, as some of the speakers said, words are too many, we want action now. I want to believe that that is the correct position to put, because we must get rid of the notion that in Africa all that we do is talk and do nothing. In fact, the African history is full of efforts, as I have tried to indicate, for us to achieve something, but the objective and subjective conditions did not allow us to achieve the successes we wanted to.

Africa is now totally committed to peace and stability. As we have seen at the most recent summit of the AU, we have now established organs of peace and security and other institutional frameworks to help us bring about peace and stability. [Interjections.] But it is useless just talking in terms of generalities. Africa in the past few years has made tremendous advances. Peace has, at last, come to Angola. There is some movement in the Congo, the Comoros and in Lesotho, to mention a few.

We also do not need to be lectured by some of my colleagues on the left about democracy and human rights. [Interjections.] As we have said on so many occasions, they were at best people who lived on the benefits of the apartheid system, and were never vocal exponents of democracy and human rights. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

And I want to believe that, like all people, children learn and as they grow up they learn. My colleagues on my left are also beginning to learn that in Africa we are committed to genuine democracy and human rights. I am happy to note that some of them are beginning to understand what that means.

The African Union’s good governance on politics and economics, the protocols and the African Commission on Human and Peoples’ Rights; the protocols relating to CEDAW, the courts of justice, the new organ on elections that has now been established, and the Pan-African Parliament are all institutions that we must use to give concrete manifestation to our quest for peace and security. [Interjections.]

Now, I know that the spectre of Zimbabwe confuses the people on my left, not because they are interested in the Zimbabwean people. It is only Mulder who had the guts to say: ``We are frightened that what is happening in Zimbabwe is going to happen here.’’ So, their unconscious fears are about how they are going to protect their own privileges, without seeing that South Africa is an independent country with institutions. And, it is their role that will determine whether democracy flourishes in this country or not. [Interjections.]

I want to clearly state something here. Nazism arose in certain countries in Europe. Can we then say that all of Europe was subjected to Nazism? Apartheid was invented in this country, but not all of Africa experienced apartheid. So, what happens in Zimbabwe cannot necessarily be equated with what happens in South Africa. [Interjections.]

So, those hon members should not keep using this spectre simply as a smokescreen to try to protect their own privileges that they got through the wrong means under the apartheid system. [Interjections.]

They should rather use their privileged positions to work with those who come from a genuinely democratic framework, who genuinely believe in democracy, to ensure that democracy becomes established throughout the African continent. People should not have a one-sided and very selective understanding of what is democracy and what is not. [Interjections.]

I also want to tell the opposition to stop shouting all the time about what is going wrong in another country and undermine what we are trying to do in this country. [Interjections.] In fact, they have a historical responsibility to work with us to help solve the very serious political economic problems in Zimbabwe.

I still have to get from the DP a single honest suggestion of what we can do to help the Zimbabwean people to come out of their political and economic crisis - not a single suggestion! [Interjections.] [Applause.] So, they can shout, they are weak and useless and irrelevant! All they are doing is putting their fear of democracy into the minorities in our country, thereby playing a very dangerous subversive role in this sense. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

So, if they are serious about democracy in South Africa, they should help to consolidate it. And, if they are serious about democracy in Zimbabwe, they should help us to ensure that the Commonwealth initiative, which South Africa and Nigeria have been mandated to handle to bring about dialogue between the government and the MCC, becomes a reality. [Interjections.]

HON MEMBER: Do it!

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: We are doing it. Well, it is obvious that they are such ignoramuses. They do not read anything! [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order!

Mr G B D McINTOSH: Madam Speaker, on a point of order, I would appreciate it if you could make a ruling on the statement made by the hon Deputy Minister that the DP is playing a subversive role in South Africa. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, the hon Deputy Minister is expressing a view about the role of a party. I really do not think that it is an issue on which I need to make a ruling. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, let me conclude by saying that the UN Development Programme has been mandated by the Secretary- General to try to depoliticise the land issue, and this is something that we are working on. We are trying to ensure that through the UNDP programme we can achieve that. [Interjections.]

Of course, coming from that hon member, it is not difficult to be that. Compared to that hon member, anybody who has any sense and who is genuinely committed to helping people and to establishing democracy, will be regarded as a hypocrite.

Let me then say to some elements of the DP - the word ``Democratic Party’’ is a contradiction in terms, honestly. [Laughter.] Because there is nothing democratic about this party. However, let me say that we are very keen to help stabilise Zimbabwe and to work with all political parties and formations in this country to do everything possible to help the Zimbabwean people to come out of their political and economical crisis. [Interjections.]

This sort of screaming, for instance … Let me give hon members an example. They are rattling on about a farmer who has been arrested in Zimbabwe and accusing us of doing nothing. If they had the courtesy to ask us what we were doing, we would have informed them.

HON MEMBER: We asked you!

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: No! You never asked us. [Interjections.] Our High Commissioner … [Interjections] … you will get heart attack if you continue to make such a noise! [Interjections.] Let me explain to hon members that our High Commissioner in Zimbabwe is constantly in touch with all South Africans in Zimbabwe. This morning he was in touch with the South African farmer who had been arrested, and he is doing everything possible to defend the interests of South Africans in Zimbabwe.

So, the DP should not be selective in their concerns about Zimbabwe. They are rationalising the Zimbabwe issue. I have never heard them talk about the black farmers and the workers in Zimbabwe. [Interjections.] I am talking of the Zimbabweans and the interests of the Zimbabwean people. I do not make a distinction, as they continuously do. They only talk of the white farmers and ignore the thousands of black farmers and workers that are affected. [Interjections.]

So, Nepad, the AU and the vision of an African Renaissance will continue with or without them. If they want to make a genuine contribution they should come on to the train on a genuine basis, and, together, let us make the renewal of Africa a reality and not what they are trying to make it - a failed continent. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

               NATIONAL CONVENTIONAL ARMS CONTROL BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Madam Speaker, hon members, this debate on the National Conventional Arms Control Bill comes appropriately after the debate on Peace, Development and Prosperity: The African century.

In introducing this debate, I wish to begin by quoting our President when he spoke at the launch of the African Union in Durban last month. He said, and I quote:

The time has come to end the marginalisation of Africa. We must work for peace, security and stability. We must end the senseless wars and conflicts that have caused so much pain and suffering.

This law reflects our basic commitment to human rights and international peace. It fits into the Nepad framework which places peace, security and stability firmly into the renewal of our continent. The African responsibilities and African promises within Nepad are peace, democracy and good governance. These are not just promises to the West, as some have said, but promises to the people of Africa, because they uphold and reflect our own commitment to the rights of Africans to dignity, justice and ultimately a better life.

Since 1994 our Government has played a pivotal role in promoting a rigorous arms control policy within the country and worldwide. While the apartheid regime purposefully used weapons to fuel wars and destabilise the region, the new Government has embarked on a programme of creating a new order which prioritises human rights and the promotion of international peace.

The Government has written these values into much of its work, including the drafting of the White Paper on Defence, the very establishment of the National Conventional Arms Control Committee and the destruction of settlers’ weapons in the SA Police Service and the SA National Defence Force, and in Mozambique.

Internationally our Government has written these values into a number of treaties, including the Pelindaba Treaty that declared Africa a nuclear weapon-free zone, the Oslo Convention that banned landmines, and the UN Conference on Small Arms which was held in New York in July last year, and which framed the first internationally accepted norms for controlling the trade in small arms. Clearly these are not just principle stands. They are a practical commitment, expressed in our country’s determination to do whatever we can to help end the wars on our continent.

Today’s debate marks a milestone in the history of our country’s young democracy. By passing this law, South Africa continues to provide the moral and political leadership which the world has come to expect. We are debating an extremely important piece of legislation which will put into law South Africa’s commitment to peace by regulating the arms trade.

The National Conventional Arms Control Bill provides a mechanism to ensure our country’s compliance with Government policy in respect of arms control, and to ensure the implementation of a legitimate, effective and transparent control process. It ensures this by the appointment of a Minister who is not from a security-related portfolio as a chairperson of the committee. As hon members know, the chairperson of the committee so far has been the Minister of Education. This tradition will be continued in the new committee. The appointment of an independent inspectorate with wide-ranging powers is another example of the Government’s commitment to making sure that the arms trade is regulated. Essentially South Africa’s arms control regime has emerged from two major sources. Firstly, it relates to the ANC’s long tradition and participation in non-proliferation and arms control initiatives under the auspices of the United Nations and other international bodies. Secondly, it has emerged from the ANC’s links with countries around the world that have experienced the disastrous consequences of the irresponsible and uncontrolled transfer of arms.

Let me remind hon members of this House that the NCACC has its immediate origin in the recommendations of the Cameron Commission that investigated the irregular shipment of dangerous weapons to Yemen. Our Government has committed itself to working towards a regional approach to security. This common regional approach, based on human security, goes beyond the traditional narrow understanding of state security, and it encompasses issues of socioeconomic development. It entails the establishment of a regional arms register and a regional control mechanism for regulating the flow of arms in our region. It entails regional co-operation on issues of arms transfer and the illegal proliferation of small arms.

The NCACC was set up to ensure compliance with the policy of Government in respect of arms control to ensure the implementation of a legitimate, effective and transparent control process. And I stress transparent, because as hon members who have read the Bill would know, there will be reports to Parliament and a committee of Parliament to ensure that members of Parliament are kept informed about what decisions have been made by this committee.

The Bill goes into some detail regarding other aspects in terms of how this committee is going to work. I want to emphasise one aspect where, under section 15, the guiding principles are spelt out. The criteria in terms of which the committee will make its decisions are clearly spelt out. And in terms of these criteria, the issue of a track record in terms of human rights is clearly entrenched in this Bill.

What I also want to emphasise is that this Bill ensures that private citizens of this country are regulated in terms of their trade in arms. This is the first of its kind. This has never happened before in our country, and I think in debating this Bill we must take this into account and see that our country is giving the moral and political leadership to the world which it has done this far.

In conclusion, I want to say I do hope that this House will vote on this Bill, that they will support this Bill, because, indeed, by supporting this Bill, we will all be committing ourselves as members of this House to ensuring that when this regulation comes into effect, we will be monitoring those citizens in the private sector to ensure that they respect and follow the dictates of this law.

Lastly, I want to say that members of this House are going to be participating actively in ensuring that South Africa does remain committed, as it has stated, to ensuring that there is a responsible arms industry that is operating in our country. [Applause.]

Ms T R MODISE: Madam Speaker, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, I am sure I express the feelings of the committee when I say that we are relieved today to be participating here. It has been a long journey, two years of emotions and quest, but importantly, two years of teamwork.

We may stand up here today as a Portfolio Committee on Defence and not agree on certain clauses, but please be assured that the National Conventional Arms Control Bill exposed us as a committee to a number of challenges, and I think we came up on top as a committee.

The first challenge that we faced was taking ownership of the process of the deliberations. The Bill had been referred to two committees, the Foreign Affairs Committee and ourselves, and here I want to thank the Foreign Affairs committee for pointing out policy gaps and challenges on the first draft that was available, and for their availability to us as a committee whenever we needed them.

The National Conventional Arms Control Bill seeks to put in place effective, legitimate and transparent control processes that balance South Africa’s compliance with international laws and conventions on the one hand, and national laws and policies on the other hand and also the creation of an enabling environment for South Africa’s own defence industry.

The Bill puts South Africa’s position as a responsible conventional exporter very clearly. It also recognises that our attempt to move away from our past and to do everything we can to avoid weapons falling into hands that could endanger national and regional security is really serious. The Bill holds that the National Conventional Arms Control Committee is to be accountable to ensure that governments or entities recognised by these governments are not potential human rights abusers or do not have histories of human rights abuse. This Bill will also recognise that governments and conditions change, and that case-by-case assessments must be done.

Consideration of this Bill has been very interesting. When the second draft was introduced to Parliament and public hearings were held, the committee realised the extent of amendments it would have to make, and a serious debate followed. We asked ourselves to what extent a committee of Parliament could amend a Bill. When does a committee reject a Bill? What are the implications for such action? In a parliamentary system like ours, the Westminster type, could a committee of Parliament that rejects a Bill survive such action? What powers did Parliament give to committees?

We read up the rules and weighed the pros and cons, and decided to use the Rules of Parliament to set up a subcommittee representative of all parties in the portfolio committee to consider and to draft amendments on behalf of the committee. We went a step further and invited experts from the NCACC secretariat and stakeholders, as well as the state law advisers to provide the much-needed assistance. Every phrase was debated and consensus was reached. Efforts put in by this collective were then taken to the full committee for consideration. The committee tested every line, and the subcommittee sometimes lost arguments as clauses were again amended as more information and clarity were gained.

This experience was enriching. It bound us as a committee, but it also respected the fact that we had political points of view on different issues. We considered the preamble and although we are told that preambles simply introduce the law and are not enforceable, the committee, in this particular case, considered very seriously the implications of a statement such as the one made by South Africa on this Bill.

Chapter 1 of the Bill establishes the NCACC and sets out its objects and functions. The committee, which is composed of Ministers and Deputy Ministers and any other person the President might want to appoint, establishes guidelines and processes necessary for scrutiny. The committee authorises permits and keeps registers of issued permits and may conduct inspections or investigations into any trade inside or outside of South Africa relating to conventional arms. The committee must submit reports to both Cabinet and Parliament.

Because of South Africa’s rather colourful arms history that led to the Cameron Commission being set up, we could not consider this Bill without going back to reading up again on the Cameron Commission. We could not continue to just enact and, therefore, enforce the ``business as usual’’, careless and doubtful conventional arms trade of the past. We had to make sure that South Africa retains the moral high ground. We spent time deliberating on clause 4(2)(f) and became aware in the cause of our deliberations that the National Commissioner of Police is empowered by the Firearms Control Act of 2000 to authorise the export of firearms and ammunition to Foreign Affairs or their approved entities. We also became aware that as the volumes of exports for firearms increase, authorisation of such weapons is then switched to the NCACC. We were told that there was a gentleman’s agreement on this and thought that this agreement was just not on and that we had to do something to make sure that this is regulated.

South Africa entered into a number of international, regional, biliteral and even triliteral defence agreements that put us under the obligation to engage in security co-operation with other countries. We are also aware that weapons of all nature, including machetes, have been used in different conflicts on our continent. Since the end of the Cold War our continent has moved towards democratisation and disarmament, with our country involved and leading in some of the resolutions and peace initiatives.

Chapter 4 of the Defence Review captures South Africa’s concern about poverty, illiteracy and unemployment. It ponders on the large numbers of refugees and disabled people, about the debt crisis, diseases and environmental degradation. It recognises underdevelopment and political instability that occur in most Southern African states. All these matters make clause 15 of this Bill very important to us. I must point out that those who have only glanced through the White Paper of the Defence Review tell us that clause 15 actually reminds them of pacifists. If this is so, this should have been pointed out in 1996, when this House adopted the White Paper, because to us what stands in clause 15 and in the White Paper is fundamental.

Indeed, this Bill is anchored in that White Paper and other government policies. Page 30 in Chapter 7 of the White Paper actually puts some of the issues even stronger than clause 15 of this Bill. It says that South Africa shall avoid arms transfers and trade which would likely be used in the violation or suppression of human rights and fundamental freedom. The White Paper takes matters further and says that South Africa shall avoid arms transfers and trade that are likely to have a negative impact on its diplomatic and trade relations with other countries and which countries support or encourage terrorism.

For those of us who accept that every country has the right to defend itself and its citizens, clause 15 is important. It draws the line and sets down the criteria for accepting and accessing applications for permits.

Clause 16 relates to the ownership of the exports and stresses the nontransferability of end user certificates and all the related conditions. The Bill allows for the establishment of an inspectorate. In our view this inspectorate is independent of the Departments of Trade and Industry, Defence and Foreign Affairs. This inspectorate is given some powers to enter, search, test, examine and seize documents or property or objects. An inspector is required to identify himself or herself and to hand over a warrant empowering himself or herself to enter or to seize, and to ensure that whatever it is that is seized or confiscated is handed to a police official immediately in terms of the provisions of the Criminal Procedures Act.

Clause 23 deals with the disclosure of information. The portfolio committee must thank all members of the public who made submissions and focused on this clause. The Centre for Conflict Resolution, Idasa, Gunfree South Africa, the South African Catholic Bishops’ Conference and individuals made valuable inputs.

Clause (1)(a) says that the committee must ensure compliance with the annual reporting requirements of the United Nations register for conventional arms, and present to Parliament a copy of this report. We recognise that we are simple parliamentarians with no expertise on UN matters. We recognise that South Africa will respect the conditions that come with such compliance. We are happy about this inclusion because we will now, as individual members of Parliament, avoid the unnecessary expenses that we have had in acquiring copies of the UN registers. If it is accessible to the world out there, then it shall be accessible to this Parliament.

Clause 23(1)(b) is important. This is the report that will enable Parliament to perform its oversight role. Receiving detailed reports from a preceding quarter will enable us to hold the executive to account. Parliament will be able to assess whether the guidelines and criteria set out in clause 15 have been followed. Parliament will be able to follow up and review.

Clause 23(1)(d) provides for a report to go out to the public. Although this report is not as detailed as the UN register or the quarterly report to Cabinet and Parliament, this report is important because it will allow us to track variances and spot inconsistencies, should these arise.

Clause 23(2)(b) protects the defence industry against industrial espionage, and importers have to keep their secrets. After all, it is not important to know how many brown envelopes go next door. It is more important to guard the contents of the envelope.

Clause 23(3) makes provision for the non-disclosure of information. I must also point out that clause 23 is the only clause in this Bill on which we are not in agreement. Clause 23(1)(c) would have allowed Parliament a rare opportunity to monitor executive non-final decisions.

Whilst countries like Sweden and the US are able to monitor, recommend and even to take virtual executive action we were given to believe that this, in our case, would amount to taking over executive powers. It must be understood that we are a new democracy desperately trying to do the right thing. It must be understood that while Parliament needs to be possessive about its powers and jurisdiction, it also needs to know where the lines are drawn. We do not want to do the work of the executive.

For me the real question has not been whether or not the deletion of 23(1)(c) sought to usurp executive powers, but whether a young democracy with a very young Parliament that is not very well resourced was ready to take on the responsibility. As matters stand, security is a do-or-die issue on this continent. It is a specialised field, a pillar on which Nepad has to be premised and the rock to which the AU has to be anchored and, yet, it is not taken seriously. Parliamentary staff members are not given the requisite capacity. Parliament itself does not have capacity. In time, South Africa will have proactive oversight. We must, however, work very hard on getting every member of Parliament to understand the rules of Parliament, the role they are supposed to play and the powers that Parliament gives to committees. Only then can we hope to be effective in our work.

In processing this Bill we learned a lot. We were sometimes quite serious and emotional, but I am sure I carry the mandate of the committee to acknowledge the role that is played by the hon Velaphi Ndlovu of the IFP and the hon Hennie Smit of the New NP. We miss their intervention, humour and brotherly advice, and we are sure that they are going to do very well in KwaZulu-Natal and the Western Cape legislatures respectively.

One issue concerns me, though, and I quote from the White Paper as follows: South Africa shall establish a regional register which records the transfer of conventional arms and light weapons within Southern Africa.

South Africa will provide data and information on arms transfers required by the United Nations resolution establishing the register for conventional arms. South Africa will promote the inclusion of small arms transferred in the register.

That is what the White Paper says. Maybe I am out of touch, but I wonder if we have moved to set up this regional register. This is important, because of underdevelopment, crime, climatic disasters and general drought conditions which result in hunger and diseases that are not being improved by the free flow of light weapons.

If South Africa is thinking, as it thought in 1996, of establishing a regional register to include light weapons, why is South Africa looking at this bietjie hier'' and bietjie daar’’ weapons control? Why is it possible to think of a regional register, but not of a centralised national register? If it exists I will be pardoned, but if it does not exist, why it is impossible for us to start looking at legislation to correct this?

In conclusion, I want to express my sincere gratitude to the state law advisers. They have been with us from the subcommittee days to committee meetings. Many members of the Department of Defence have come and gone, but the law advisers stuck with us. Re a leboha ntate Gideon Boom. [We thank you Mr Gideon Boom.] [Time expired.]

Adv H C SCHMIDT: Mr Chairman, in our view the authority to export arms is of a different degree of sensitivity to other types of exports. There can be few decisions of greater potential impact on the conduct of foreign relations and on the lives of many people than whether to permit weapons made in this country to be put in the hands of other governments and their forces. There is understandable anger when it is found that South African weapons have been used to oppress or terrorise people, or to endanger the lives of our servicemen and women or civilians.

Until very recently, our present Government has been exporting arms secretively to countries involved in a potentially explosive situation. These countries are India and Pakistan. When conventional arms are simultaneously sold to aggressive rivals, our Government is clearly not fulfilling the objectives of not destabilising that specific region. It is immoral. From this example, the need for legislation controlling the export of arms, which we are debating today, is clearly shown.

The most important section in this Bill relates to clause 23. The important accountability and transparency measure was removed from this Bill due to the interference of the hon Minister of Education, Mr Kader Asmal, as chairperson of the NCACC, in the legislative affairs of the portfolio committee, regarding reporting requirements of the NCACC to the mentioned parliamentary committee.

This objection of the hon the Minister came after the Portfolio Committee on Defence had approved this Bill earlier this year and had been set down for debate in this House. However, this debate was postponed the day before without any reason given whatsoever. I, in fact, wonder whether the ANC had been given any reason for this postponement - I very much doubt it. It has been reported that this issue has led to serious differences between the chairperson of this committee, hon Thandi Modise, and hon Minister Asmal.

This Bill, many months later, appears before this House without any real form of transparency and accountability in terms whereof this parliamentary committee can exercise its duty. It will be a mere rubber stamp, due to the interference of the executive in the responsible legislature. The issue at stake here relates to the decision by the Portfolio Committee on Defence that the parliamentary committee could make recommendations regarding an application for a permit to enter into a contract to export conventional arms, which the committee is likely to approve. This clause would not have conferred on Parliament the power to veto a pending arms export. It provides only that a parliamentary committee may recommend to the National Conventional Arms Committee that an air arms export be rejected … listen … recommended to the NCAC that an air arms export be rejected on the grounds that the export is inconsistent with the principles contained in the Bill. It does not usurp the executive’s decision-making authority or undermine the principle of separation of powers, as the hon Minister of Defence has argued in the committee. It was only after the late intervention by the hon Minister of Defence that the committee members were, in fact, steamrollered into abandoning this most vital oversight function of this committee.

The apparent lack of honesty we as a country show towards our commitment to fully disclose all our conventional arms exports in terms of the United Nations Register, is alarming. It is clear from the United Nations resolutions that countries may voluntarily decide to ascribe to being transparent and open in its affairs by notifying the United Nations of all conventional arms exported. Once a country has decided to do so, it is bound to make a full disclosure thereof. However, as publicly stated by the hon Minister of Defence in the committee, he is of the view that South Africa is not bound to do so should South Africa enter into a bilateral agreement prohibiting such full disclosure. These two views are totally contradictory. Either South Africa must decide to make a full disclosure on a voluntary basis of all conventional arms exported, or alternatively South Africa must indicate to the United Nations that it does not intend reporting the details of arms exported during the preceding year, and bear the consequences. It cannot be both. It is clear that we have recently acted in contravention of the new guidelines we have set for ourselves in relation to conventional arms exported, as stated in the Bill we are debating here today. In the first instance, arms transfers to countries where human rights are suppressed should be actively avoided. In this respect, the Indian government, under pressure from international human rights organisations like Human Rights and Amnesty International, has investigated at least 56 of its personnel in Kashmir for human rights violations.

It is ironic to note that the South African export statistics for conventional arms for the period 2000-2001, which for two years were not forthcoming, indicate that all arms sales to Israel had been stopped for the year 2001, whilst our own Government decided to sell conventional arms to two different warring nations simultaneously - double standards!

I wish to conclude with a quote from the minutes compiled - and I agree with this quote - by the Parliamentary Monitoring Group of a meeting of the defence portfolio committee, made by the hon Thandi Modise:

Clause 23 (1) says that we will get reports. I agree to a certain nature. She goes on to say that:

Once South Africa volunteers to provide reports to the United Nations, we must comply. This debate frightens me, that South Africa is not being honest with what it reports to the United Nations.

This was said by the chairperson of that committee, Mr Kader Asmal.

May I remind this House that the net effect of non-compliance could give rise to a situation whereby South Africa is again denied access to further technology and services, with severe penalties being imposed on the South African National Defence Force. We oppose this Bill.

Mr N S MIDDLETON: Sawubona, Mfazi! [I take pleasure in saluting you!] [Interjections.] Sikhona. [I am well.]

Mr Chairman and colleagues, let me just start off by saying that whilst considering this Bill, we must bear in mind that there is no such thing as a perfect Bill anywhere in the world. There is no such thing as a perfect law anywhere in the world. In fact, I could go on and say that there is no institution such as a perfect government anywhere in the world. We are all human beings. We err and we learn from that. This Bill does exactly that, correcting the past, correcting the faults of the past. This is how I read this Bill.

Since 1994 Government has committed itself to a policy of disarmament and control. A key factor of this policy was to position South Africa as a responsible producer and exporter.

In August 1995, the Government approved an interim arms control policy in terms of which a Cabinet sub-committee, which is now known as the National Conventional Arms Control Committee, was established. The committee’s main function was to ensure that arms exports conformed to South Africa’s commitment to democracy - that is important - to human rights, sustainable development, social justice and the environmental protection of our land.

The main objective of this Bill is to formally establish the NCACC in terms of the law and with a clear terms of reference. The committee was charged with ensuring compliance with Government’s arms control policies.

The main features of this Bill, as I see it, are as follows. It provides for an inspectorate, as the chairman of the portfolio committee has already said, to ensure compliance with the arms control policy; it provides clear guidelines and criteria that must be used when applications for arms import and export are considered; and, finally, the Bill is aimed, amongst many other things, at ensuring proper accountability in the trade and export of conventional arms. What else do you want?

Amongst other things, the committee must - and this is important - report to Parliament every quarter of the year on all conventional arms exports by South Africa and, more importantly, provide this Parliament with a list of all pending applications for arms exports.

Of course, this Bill seeks to correct the wrongs of the past with regard to what has happened here in the past. This Bill would monitor companies such as Daimler-Chrysler and the likes, and to see that there is no repetition of the so-called arms nonsense that we heard about. The IFP will support this Bill for those reasons and for nothing else. However, we believe that this Bill is a transitional Bill. It is a Bill that can be improved on. We agree on that. As time goes by, and as changes are needed, this Bill, like any other Bill, will have to be improved on.

The IFP supports this Bill as it stands.

Mr A BLAAS: Mr Chairperson, when this Bill was on the Order Paper in March this year, the New NP, although there were certain comments, was comfortable in supporting it. The Bill was then referred back and amendments were made which seriously jeopardise parliamentary oversight and which raise serious concerns. The New NP will, however, support this Bill, because one can hardly be against any action which ensures that conventional arms from South Africa are not sold to institutions that can abuse them.

This Bill provides, amongst others, for a National Conventional Arms Control Committee appointed by the President. It gives guiding principles and criteria for the trade in arms and also prescribes reporting obligations to Parliament so as to fulfil its oversight function.

The Bill, as it now stands, has an inherent flaw. It only allows for retrospective oversight by Parliament.

In die Maart-teks was daar ‘n klousule wat bepaal het dat daar kwartaalliks aan ‘n komitee van die Parlement verslag gedoen moes word, nie net ten opsigte van voltooide transaksies nie, maar ook ten opsigte van aansoeke of permitte wat onder oorweging by die komitee was. Die klousule ten opsigte van beoogde transaksies en permitte is nou geskrap. Die Parlement word dus nou slegs in kennis gestel van transaksies wat afgehandel is. Die wapens kan maar verkoop word aan enige koper wat volgens die diskresie van die komitee aan die voorgeskrewe riglyne voldoen.

Dit was noodsaaklik vir duidelike magsdeling, aldus die Minister van Verdediging. Dit is ‘n argument wat moeilik begrypbaar is. Rapportering is mos slegs verslagdoening en nie uitvoering nie. Hoe dit magte skei, word moeilik verstaan.

Die verpolitisering van besluitneming is ‘n verdere rede tot kommer. Politieke aksies, wat wapengeweld insluit, spruit voort uit politieke magsbasisse. ‘n Politieke magsbasis word deur die besit van konvensionele wapens bepaal. Die President het ‘n alleenmandaat om die Nasionale Konvensionele Wapenbeheerkomitee aan te wys. Die komitee, alhoewel daar ook Ministers in die komitee dien, is nie ‘n subkomitee van die Kabinet nie.

Die komitee is dus ‘n politieke struktuur wat politieke besluite neem. Politieke interaksie maak ook somtyds eienaardige bedmaats. Die komitee, met sy interpretasie van die riglyne en spesifieke vriende, besluit aan wie wapens verkoop word.

Die enigste verslagdoening aan die Parlement vind plaas nadat die transaksie afgehandel is. Indien die wapens in verkeerde hande beland, kan daar net niks aan gedoen word nie. Die wapens kan tog sekerlik nie teruggeneem word nie. Die Parlement kan maar net kennis neem. Is dit parlementêre oorsig, soos deur die Grondwet beoog word? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[In the March text there was a clause that provided that a committee of Parliament would be reported to quarterly, not only with regard to completed transactions, but also with regard to applications or permits that were being considered by the committee. The clause with regard to envisaged transactions and permits has now been abolished. Parliament is therefore now only informed about transactions that have been completed. Weapons may be sold to any buyer who, at the discretion of the committee, complies with the prescribed guidelines.

It was essential for clear separation of power, according to the Minister of Defence. It is an argument that is difficult to comprehend. Surely reporting is only reporting and not execution. How it separated powers is difficult to understand.

Politicising of decision-making is another cause for concern. Political actions, which include armed violence, is a result of political power bases. A political power base is determined by the possession of conventional weapons. The President has a sole mandate to appoint the National Conventional Arms Control Committee. The committee, in spite of the fact that Ministers also serve on the committee, is not a subcommittee of the Cabinet.

The committee is therefore a political structure that makes political decisions. Political interaction also sometimes makes for peculiar bedfellows. The committee, with its interpretation of the guidelines and specific friends, decides to whom weapons will be sold.

The only reporting to Parliament takes place after the transaction has been finalised. If the weapons end up in the wrong hands, nothing can be done about it. Surely the weapons cannot be taken back. Parliament can only take note. Is this parliamentary oversight, as envisaged in the Constitution?]

Other questions that need to be answered are the following. Seen against the background of Chapter 6 of the White Paper on the South African Related Defence Industries, wherein an integrated arms control structure and legislation are envisaged, should this Bill be seen as an interim measure only?

Will it be possible to police this legislation effectively? How cost- effective would it be? Will it be possible still to trace weapons after a third and a fourth transaction? Would it not be much cheaper and more effective just to use the UN ``black ball’’ list of countries to which conventional arms should not be sold?

In conclusion, we re-emphasise the fact that this Bill has an inherent flaw. Conventional arms trade in South Africa becomes highly politicised and does not allow Parliament to execute proper oversight regarding intended conventional arms trade activities.

Mr W G MAKANDA: Mr Chairperson, the thinking behind the National Conventional Arms Control Bill derives from the recognition that South Africa has no aggressive intent towards any other state. Armed conflict is considered to be a very costly and disruptive method of resolving conflict and should therefore be considered as a last resort in self-defence.

It follows, therefore, that the manufacturing and sale of conventional arms must be put under vigilant and effective control by the state through its agencies. The National Conventional Arms Control Committee has been established and charged with this task. Its objects are to:

… implement Government policy regarding trade in conventional arms in order to establish, apply and ensure a legitimate, effective and transparent control process in … the Republic, which conforms to international law …

Clause 3(a) of the Bill states that this legislation must:

… foster national and international confidence in the Committee’s procedures for … trade in conventional arms.

The imperative to conform to international law is underpinned by clause 23(1)(a), which obligates the NCACC to comply -

… with the annual reporting requirements of the United Nations Register of Conventional Arms and simultaneously present to Parliament a copy of South Africa’s annual report to the United Nations.

I submit, however, that clause 23 does not confer on Parliament powers to veto pending arms exports. The parliamentary portfolio committee will only receive annual reports of permits already authorised during the preceding year. This limits Parliament’s oversight role and raises questions as to whether we have adequate mechanisms to keep conventional arms sales on a straight course. The concern is particularly pertinent in the light of reports that the NCACC and the Department of Foreign Affairs failed to submit to the UN Conventional Arms Register the sale of 28 G5 artillery pieces to Malaysia in recent years. There is also concern that South Africa has been selling arms to countries in the Great Lakes area which are embroiled in a regional war. It must be noted, however, that while South Africa is doing what it can to control the proliferation of conventional arms …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, your speaking time has expired.

Mr W G MAKANDA: Chairperson, we support the Bill. [Applause.]

Adv Z L MADASA: Mr Chairperson, this debate takes place at an appropriate time, against the background of the arms deal. The National Conventional Arms Control Committee is the only hope for the nation to ensure transparency and accountability in an area of notoriously clandestine deals. We have read in recent newspaper reports about our exports of Puma helicopters to the UK. Speaking as a member of the committee, I am in the dark as to what procedures were followed in this disposal, whether proper approvals were obtained and, if there were, whether this was done prior to the disposal or ex post facto? Who are the ultimate beneficiaries of this sale? At some point the portfolio committee must demand an explanation as to why, seemingly, all arms deals always have a nexus with the so-called Luthuli Trust. The committee must probe, at some point, what gave the beneficiaries of this trust exclusive rights to arms deals and who the beneficiaries of this trust are.

Despite the mist covering the arms deals in our own country, one still encounters a situation where pressure is being put on the committee by some people who seem to think that the procedures we have are too transparent and too accountable. The NCACC is under obligation by the UN and our Constitution to be transparent and accountable.

We accept the facts stated by the Minister of Trade and Industry that South Africa needs to benefit from the arms industry, like everyone else, provided there is free and fair competition in the business.

The ACDP will support this Bill, as it is a step in the right direction, albeit not completely satisfactory in all respects.

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Mnr die Voorsitter, as daar een aspek is wat altyd omstrede is, is dit wapenhandel. Daar is min handelsaspekte wat so omstrede kan wees as juis wapens. Ons het ‘n wet wat ‘n poging aanwend om konvensionele wapens in Suid-Afrika te reguleer. Daar is egter bepaalde probleme. Die kriteria wat daargestel word vir lande of persone wat ons wapens wil koop, is basiese kriteria wat gebaseer is op die subjektiewe. Ons sê byvoorbeeld ons verkoop nie wapens aan lande wat skuldig is aan ernstige menseregteskendings nie, maar die vraag is of ons daarby hou.

As ons na dié wetsontwerp kyk, wil ek aan die begin sê die VF sal hierdie wetsontwerp steun. Soos die ander partye gesê het, dit is ‘n stap in die regte rigting. Maar let wel, dit is slegs ‘n stap. Die vraag is hoe effektief hierdie wetsontwerp gaan wees. Hierdie wetsontwerp se sukses gaan afhang van hoe eerlik die Suid-Afrikaanse Regering is. Daar moet nie ‘n situasie soos in 2001 wees waar die wapenregister van die Verenigde Nasies verklaar het dat die regering van Maleisië dit geopenbaar het dat Suid- Afrika 28 G-5 kanonne het aan Maleisië verkoop het, terwyl Suid-Afrika dit nie geopenbaar het nie.

Ons moet onsself dan afvra of die Maleisiese regering eerliker is as die Suid-Afrikaanse Regering. Ons kan dit nie bekostig nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Mr Chairperson, if there is one aspect that is always controversial, it is the arms trade. There are very few trade aspects that can be as controversial as those of arms. We have an Act that attempts to regulate conventional arms in South Africa. However, there are specific problems. The criteria put in place for countries or persons who want to purchase our arms are basic criteria based on the subjective. For example, we say that we do not sell arms to countries guilty of serious human rights violations, but the question is whether we adhere to this.

If we look at this Bill, then I would like to begin by saying that the FF will support this Bill. As other parties stated, this is a step in the right direction. Take note, however; this is merely a step. The question is how effective this Bill will be. The success of this Bill will depend on how honest the South African Government is. There should not be a situation such as the one in 2001, where the arms register of the United Nations declared, because the government of Malaysia disclosed it, that South Africa had sold 28 G-5 cannons to Malaysia, whilst South Africa had not disclosed this.

We must ask ourselves, then, whether the Malaysian government is more honest than the South African Government. We cannot afford this.]

We cannot afford contradictions in the United Nations’ arms register. If we want to state quantities and the other countries state quantities, we should do the same, or else we are not completely honest.

Dr M S MOGOBA: Chairperson, the National Conventional Arms Control Bill is a vast improvement on the situation that pertained in the past. We certainly support the need for a committee to establish, apply and ensure a legitimate and transparent control of arms. Our view is further that, given the delicate and sensitive work of dealing with arms, a system of checks and balances should be implemented, and this system should include Parliament and the portfolio committee in its oversight work.

We would also like to sound a word of caution on the danger of selling arms to countries with a dubious track record of human rights and fundamental human rights. The Bill, in section 15 (c)-(f), recognises this danger. The overarching consideration is that we live in a world which is fragile, even wicked, and that the circulation of arms could just fall into the wrong hands. In our world no country can be regarded as strong and secure. We need a paradigm shift from war to peace. We should be seen as a country that has emerged from repression to peace, and which has developed expertise in mediation and negotiation.

These are attributes required in the new world order of the 21st century. We should therefore develop an image and reputation of being a country that exports peace and justice, rather than arsenals of death.

With that qualification we support the Bill.

Mr G C OOSTHUIZEN: Mr Chairperson, thank you so much. I listened to some of the opposition speakers in this afternoon’s debate. Some, like the DA, on the one hand support the Bill, but then they criticise it, with specific reference to clause 23. They will never be satisfied, even if a squeaky clean process is followed.

The hon Schmidt used his imagination to try to create a debate between the chairperson of the committee and hon Minister Kader Asmal. He quoted the hon chairperson of the committee, and his recollection of the debate confirmed to me that he works very economically with the truth. Fact of the matter is, the debate was live, it was democratic, it was transparent and open, and we specifically said that we did not want to take over the role and the functions of the executive in this country.

If they want to be in that position, they would have to convince the electorate to vote them in in the next election, and then they can take that responsibility. There is a clear distinction between oversight in Parliament and exercising the powers of the executive which had been voted in by the majority of the electorate in this country.

We do make disclosures to the United Nation’s register. We, as Government, have done that even before this Bill was introduced in this House today. It was also communicated quite clearly; however, that South Africa and this Government honours bilateral agreements between this country and other countries. If they say they have no problem, that we report what amount we spend in which category, but do not disclose the quantity thereof, we respect with integrity that commitment we have made. I leave them at that for the electorate to deal with in the next election.

The South African Government has since its inception in May 1994 - that was the year of liberation - committed itself to a policy of nonproliferation, disarmament and arms control. This covers all weapons of mass destruction and extends to concerns relating to the proliferation of conventional weapons.

Fact is, the liberated South Africa has inherited an arms industry which stems, by and large, from sanctions which were very successfully imposed on the apartheid regime at the time. [Interjections.] No, listen. We view our arms industry not only as a national asset which creates jobs, but which also acts as a spin-off to attract much-needed foreign investment, not only for this country, but also for this very continent of ours.

In acting responsibly with this national asset, our arms industry, the primary goal of South Africa’s nonproliferation, disarmament and arms control policy is to reinforce and promote South Africa as a responsible producer and processor of arms, and a leader in defence-related products and advanced technologies.

In 1995 the South African Cabinet approved an interim arms control policy, which forms an integral part of this ANC-led Government’s commitment to democracy, transparency, human rights, sustainable development, social justice and environmental protection.

In line with its commitment to good governance, the Cabinet of this country decided that the National Conventional Arms Control Committee should be set up in terms of a statute. The terms of reference of this committee are clearly defined by the Bill we are debating, ensuring compliance with the policy of the Government in respect of arms control and the dealing therein.

I submit to this House that this Bill will enable the NCACC to ensure the implementation of a legitimate, effective and transparent control process which will foster national and international confidence in the control procedures of our arms industry. The fact that we, before this Bill was introduced in the House, voluntarily submitted to the UN’s request to report to them, and that we are now going to report on a quarterly basis to Parliament, underpins the transparency of the process.

May I say, and I say this very proudly, for a country, eight years into the open season of democracy, we are not only doing well, we are setting examples of international standard, something we must all be extremely proud of in this House. In short, this Bill aims at protecting the shores of our arms industry from the human sharks intent on depleting our sea harvest. We must accept the reality of our times, and place mechanisms such as this Bill in place which underpins the integrity of our efforts in rooting out corruption when dealing with and in arms.

Clauses 22, 23, 24 and 25 respectively deal with disclosure, nondisclosure, offences and penalties, as well as the disclosure of interests in the arms industry. This is done because kickbacks and commissions are by and large the shadow of every arms deal, and because the intermediaries find fertile territory in this effort. A self-respecting country such as South Africa should therefore have a mechanism such as this Bill in place to check and regulate this inherent abuse. This we do by placing this Bill before the House. We are, therefore, sending a clear message to our people and to the world. The message is that we will always strive for a clean operation when dealing with and in arms.

In conclusion, the world and current situations are dynamic and are not cast in stone. No prediction or analysis of danger is static. Danger lurks everywhere, and can strike at any time. Because no nation can afford the luxury of being unprepared, we must nurture our arms industry and regulate the sale of arms as mandated by this Bill.

The ANC proudly supports this Bill. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Mr Chairperson, hon members of this House, I have not gone through the mincing machine. I want to go voluntarily, sometimes, through the mincing machine. There is no tension and difficulty, contrary to what might be said, between Comrade Modise and myself, because all the presentations that were made, were made on behalf of the Cabinet. There were no personal interventions on this, because there is a unity of action, which I will try to explain in a moment, particularly, of course, for those who have come recently to Parliament and have not recognised the extraordinary enormity of the crimes that took place before 1994.

I regret to mention the silence that was imposed on the Progressive Federal Party in relation to the invasions of Angola and the invasions and attacks on the frontline states. I have great admiration for Colin Eglin, because he intervened, with freedom, to talk about the responsibility that was incurred in the violence that was shown.

Not once in this House was there any criticism or any opposition to the extraordinary role that the apartheid regime played. [Interjections.] I could look at the Hansard. No, I will ask Colin Eglin to do so. [Interjections.] The hon member may have been there, but he may have been deaf. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]

This is called a transfer - he is calling me dumb. I think it comes from a particular position where he does not recognise his own position.

Margaret Thatcher once said: ``When I sell arms for Britain, I am batting for Britain’’. Cricket, this is. However, in our context it is evident, from the activities of the National Conventional Arms Control Committee, as well as the provisions contained in the Bill we are debating today, that our stance is fundamentally different.

We are not obliged, as the executive, to introduce this Bill. We said in 1995 that there would be a Bill. We are not obliged. It has nothing to do with our morals. Other countries … [Interjections] … this is the provincialism the hon member is showing. We have studied every country in the world, including Sweden and the United States. I will come to this in a moment.

We have this autorestraint, because it was the right thing to do. There is an element of schizophrenia. Every now and then I get a letter from people in the DP asking why we are not developing our arms industry in this area and that area. There was a parliamentary question in 1995 as to why we were remiss in not exporting arms to create more jobs. People’s memory is very important in this area. We are trying to have a little bit of consistency. [Interjections.]

We come to this. As members, we are aware of the fact that Cabinet took a decision, exceptional in the world, that the chair of this committee would not be a line function involved in trade and industry, foreign affairs or defence. No other country has that provision. It is usually dealt with as all-show by very junior people at an administrative level.

As matters stand, therefore, the perspective of the Cabinet was to appoint a chair who was not directly responsible, who spent about a day a week dealing with this. The Bill reflects that. The Bill says that the President will appoint the chair and the vice-chair, who will not have direct line functions. That has been our practice in the NCACC for the past eight years. That is a very important development.

This perspective was formed because, in 1995, we were dealing essentially with a past mischief. The mischief was it represents the democratic state’s answer to the activities of the merchants of death, whether it was in Yemen or Rwanda. I have gone through Hansard from 1992 to 1993. The democratic predecessor of the DP, to my recollection, never asked a single question as to why US$10 million worth of arms were sold to the Interahamwe in 1992. The arms are still being used in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Why, in fact, did the Yemen activity take place? There was not a single question asked about that.

This degree of self-righteousness, best reflected by Adv Schmidt, is a shameful thing. It is a shameful thing, because our democratic Government is not given the credit for taking the step and saying that there should be some restraint. I cannot tell the House now, because of the pressures of time and our foreign relations, that we were the first country to impose sanctions on, for example, a country in West Africa where a coup took place. There was an execution of a poet; where, in fact, there is large- scale communal violence taking place on an island in south India.

Last week, the NCACC, after very careful consideration, took a decision on a moratorium on the sale of arms to a Latin American country, because we were not sure that the arms would fall into the hands of the government itself. That is the kind of thing we do. That is the kind of thing we want to look at.

We were recklessly and carelessly plunged into activities that are against our national interests. [Interjections.] I will come to that young pup now. There is a kind of ``wetness behind the ears’’ in some of his interventions. We will come to this. [Interjections.] There is no selective morality. I will come to Mr Schmidt’s question. I might even deal with it now.

We continued the contracts with Pakistan because they are pre-freedom contracts. Again, there was the obligation to recognise the contracts. The moment the coup took place in Pakistan, we were the first country to recognise that until there was an inexorable road to democracy, there would be no more contracts. There is nothing selective about this.

India is a democracy, whether one likes it or not. I am critical of countries by nature, as the Minister for the Police will tell hon members.

HON MEMBERS: Safety and Security!

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Sorry, the Minister of Safety and Security.

Our time is very limited, that is why we took very careful consideration that the arms must stay within the government.

Also, of course, this committee has been very carefully involved in small arms transfers. We took part, with the Deputy Minister of Safety and Security, in a United Nations Conference on the Register for Small Arms for Southern Africa. There was no political support for that. [Interjections.] There was no political support. There will be a register for small arms, I understand, in South Africa. But, our brothers and sisters did not support us in relation to the register for small arms. I say this because our President, when he was Deputy President, said India, as all countries have, is one of the preferred political allies. So, we have a preference for India. Therefore, we build it up. We now consider, whether in a situation, not of ordinary tension, but in a situation that is much more serious, and will look at them case by case. As the statute says, we will look at every application case by case.

We cannot be involved in indiscriminate sales to undermine legitimate governments, stoke internal rivalries, and weaken economies which will destabilise our continent. From the outset, then, the NCACC has gone about its business in a responsible, accountable manner. There is transparency, unless one ascribes to the fact that the whole Cabinet is dishonest, they are all time-servers and all have crooked assumptions. We are the only country I know of that makes these regular reports quarterly and every year. These reports are on the website, by the way. They are on the website. I am not sure how many countries put their reports on a website. Websites should be accessible to anyone. Now, of course, the reports will be made to the parliamentary committees, which I think is a vast improvement.

The rationale and principles that guided the NCACC in the original Cabinet directive have stood the test of time. Fundamentally, this Bill reflects what has been the practice, with additions, over the past eight years. It has served the country well. It is not a temporary Bill. It is not a flawed Bill, with great respect. I think it is a fundamental error of judgment to think it is a flawed Bill. It reflects the practice we want.

There is no best international practice. The United States has a cement that holds it together. The senate foreign relations committee meets in secret. They are gung-ho about arms sales. The only thing they want is no arms sales to potential enemies. Their arms sales are worth US$10 billion. Ours came to R1,5 billion last year. They are gung-ho about it and compete with other major countries in selling arms.

We are not going to apologise for this. There is a process and a transparency that has been applied by the Cabinet. We have done other things in the committee. We brought in police arms. We made a gentleman’s agreement and brought in police arms export and the export of dynamite. We have done these things because we want restraint in our own involvement. We are particularly careful, now, that small arms are not exported to countries in Southern Africa, because there is a tendency for these arms to return to South Africa.

We have been practising that very carefully. The preamble of the Bill is part of the Bill now, the Constitutional Court has said. The preamble is enormously important now. It has legal effect. The preamble has been an enormous contribution by the portfolio committee.

I would like to share, very quickly, some of the experiences we had in the NCACC. These are lessons that we believe have shaped the Bill before us. The first lesson is that there must be regulatory mechanisms. We ourselves decided that there must be a regulatory mechanism and a policy of restraint. We do not sell arms to all comers. We are not batting for South Africa. We do not sell arms to all comers. We do not sell arms to those who have consistently violated human rights, because, with respect to Adv Schmidt, there are always skeletons in other countries’ cupboards. We will always have them. It is the fact that there is a graveyard in a particular country that must drive one to say that we must not assist in the development of graveyards. Every country has skeletons, including ours. So, if we want to sit as a moral censor, we will not get anywhere at all.

Secondly, we have introduced the highly praised Military Assistance Act, not motivated by any NGO, not driven by any party, but in relation to ourselves, about mercenary activity and activity of a non-military kind that assists in civil wars. This has been one of the most highly praised pieces of legislation which we are enforcing, and the committee enforces it. We are doing it, because it is the right thing for us to do, not because of some external pressure to deal with terrorism or something else.

The second lesson is that there must be political oversight. There is no country that has eight or nine Ministers and Deputy Ministers sitting there where, in fact, the process starts with the departments, goes to the scrutiny committee of senior civil servants, and the secretariat scrutinises all this. There is no other country that I know of that has this thorough way of doing these things. This is a very extraordinary process, and we are very proud of that.

There is a third point, and I want to return to the United Nations Register. I wish to tell Adv Schmidt that since we have set up this committee, we have reported to the United Nations every year. I think he should withdraw his extraordinary allegation. We have reported every year. If there has been an omission, he should bring it to our attention. The register, by the way, does not deal with small arms, first of all. Where did he get the idea that it dealt with small arms? It only deals with the larger issues, and we do not sell aircraft to any country. We do not sell this and that. [Interjections.] We do not. Therefore, the register has a very minimum requirement. What we are saying is that the register of the UN must now increase its requirements, and bring in other exports. We have suggested this to the United Nations, and it has not been met with great expedience.

What we are doing, therefore, is that since 1995, we are the only country that said there must be a moratorium on certain countries. We have not exported arms, since the outbreak of the incidents, to the Democratic Republic of the Congo. We have not.

In any case, we are moving away. Last year, 30% of the total sales were from avionics, not small arms. There is a movement towards using our much more sophisticated avionic system in South Africa. With the Congo, we have said that until there is irrevocable movement towards peace, we will not sell any arms to any of the countries there. We have stuck to this.

I want to end by saying that it is very important that none of the criteria in clause 15 are self-executing. There has to be a judgment, and a judgment cannot be made openly, because there are extreme sensitivities. Sales of arms cannot determine our foreign policy. It is very important that we recognise that foreign policy determines the sale of arms to countries. Therefore, we spend four or five hours every month going through the register and the applications. We do so by reference to the terms of reference. On the other hand, we must recognise that they are not self- executing. They have to be interpreted. One principle of the terms of reference may contradict another principle, if one looks at clause 25.

With great respect, therefore, there must be a political judgment which is done honestly and done well. I personally believe that this Bill meets the needs of our country. South Africa enjoys international recognition as a responsible country in matters relating to trade in conventional arms. This may be a lesson for many of us. I do not think we can take the self- flagellation and self-criticism too far. This is one area where we are leading the world, without any contradiction.

I hope that those who have worked very hard on this, the portfolio committee, the officials, the public servants from government departments and the NCACC will recognise that this Bill takes us much further. It is a credit to our country overseas, and I hope that this House will support this measure as a progressive movement which will be re-evaluated in approximately four or five years’ time. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Bill read a second time (Democratic Party dissenting).

CONSIDERATION OF FIFTH REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS - EDUCATION

Report adopted without debate.

CONSIDERATION OF SIXTH REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS - GCIS

Report adopted without debate.

CONSIDERATION OF SEVENTH REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS - SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT

Report adopted without debate.

CONSIDERATION OF EIGHTH REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS - STATISTICS SOUTH AFRICA

Report adopted without debate.

CONSIDERATION OF NINTH REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS - FOREIGN AFFAIRS

Report adopted without debate.

CONSIDERATION OF TENTH REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS - INDEPENDENT COMPLAINTS DIRECTORATE

Report adopted without debate.

CONSIDERATION OF ELEVENTH REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS - APAC CONFERENCE Report adopted without debate.

The House adjourned at 17:21. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                       FRIDAY, 16 AUGUST 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following Bills were introduced by the Minister  of  Finance
     in the National Assembly on 16 August  2002  and  referred  to  the
     Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of  Joint
     Rule 160:


     (i)     Special Pensions Amendment Bill [B  35  -  2002]  (National
           Assembly  -  sec  75)  [Bill  and  prior   notice   of   its
           introduction published in Government Gazette No 23735 of  13
           August 2002.]


     (ii)    South African Revenue Service Amendment Bill [B 36 -  2002]
           (National Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory  summary  of  Bill
           and prior notice of its introduction published in Government
           Gazette No 23686 of 31 July 2002.]


     The Bills have been referred to the Portfolio Committee on  Finance
     of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bills may be submitted to the JTM  within  three  parliamentary
     working days.


 (2)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister of  Health  in
     the National Assembly on 16 August 2002 and referred to  the  Joint
     Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of  Joint  Rule
     160:


     (i)     Medical Schemes Amendment Bill  [B  37  -  2002]  (National
           Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of  Bill  and  prior
           notice of its introduction published in  Government  Gazette
           No 23683 of 29 July 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Health  of
     the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to the  JTM  within  three  parliamentary
     working days.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism:

 Rotterdam Convention on Prior  Informed  Consent  (PIC)  Procedure  for
 Certain Hazardous Chemicals  and  Pesticides  in  International  Trade,
 tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 Written comments received from the public and  provincial  legislatures
 on the Constitution of the Republic of  South  Africa  Third  Amendment
 Bill [B  33  -  2002],  submitted  by  the  Minister  for  Justice  and
 Constitutional  Development  in  terms  of  section  74(6)(a)  of   the
 Constitution, 1996.


 Referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on  Justice  and  Constitutional
 Development.

                       MONDAY, 19 AUGUST 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister of  Trade  and
     Industry in the National Assembly on 19 August  2002  and  referred
     to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for  classification  in  terms
     of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     International Trade  Administration  Bill  [B  38  -  2002]
          (National Assembly - sec 76) [Explanatory summary of Bill  and
          prior notice  of  its  introduction  published  in  Government
          Gazette No 23573 of 28 June 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Trade  and
     Industry of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to the  JTM  within  three  parliamentary
     working days.

                       TUESDAY, 20 AUGUST 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister of  Health  in
     the National Assembly on 20 August 2002 and referred to  the  Joint
     Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of  Joint  Rule
     160:


     (i)     Occupational Diseases in Mines and Works Amendment Bill  [B
          39 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75)  [Explanatory  summary
          of Bill and prior notice  of  its  introduction  published  in
          Government Gazette No 23696 of 8 August 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Health  of
     the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to the  JTM  within  three  parliamentary
     working days.


 (2)    The Minister of Health on 19 August 2002 submitted drafts of the
     Medicines and Related Substances Control Amendment Bill, 2002,  and
     the  National  Health  Bill,  2002,  as  well  as  the  memorandums
     explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to the  Speaker
     and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule  159.  The  drafts  have
     been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Health and  the  Select
     Committee on Social Services by the Speaker  and  the  Chairperson,
     respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).


 (3)    The "Optional Protocol to the Convention on the  Rights  of  the
     Child on  the  sale  of  children,  child  prostitution  and  child
     pornography" was tabled by the Minister of  Social  Development  on
     30 May 2002 and referred to the relevant  Portfolio  Committee  and
     Select Committee on 6 June 2002 and 4 June 2002,  respectively.  In
     the Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports  of  those  three
     dates the name of the  Protocol  was  incorrectly  printed  as  the
     "Optional Protocol to the Convention on the Rights of the Child  on
     the involvement of children in armed conflict and on  the  sale  of
     children, child prostitution and child pornography".

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 The following papers have been tabled  and  are  now  referred  to  the
 relevant committees as mentioned below:


 (1)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Finance:


     Government Notice No 1038 published in the  Government  Gazette  No
     23690  dated  30  July  2002,  Statements  of  the   National   and
     Provincial   Government's   Revenue,   Expenditure   and   National
     Borrowing as at 30 June 2002, made in terms of section  32  of  the
     Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1 of 1999) and  section
     19 of the Division of Revenue Act, 2002 (Act No 5 of 2002).


 (2)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee  on
     Safety and Security for consideration and report:


     (a)     International Convention on the  Suppression  of  Terrorist
          Bombings,  tabled  in  terms  of   section   231(2)   of   the
          Constitution, 1996.
     (b)      International  Convention  for  the  Suppression  of   the
          Financing of Terrorism, tabled in terms of section  231(2)  of
          the Constitution, 1996.


     (c)      Organization  of  African   Unity   Convention   for   the
          Prevention and Combating of  Terrorism,  tabled  in  terms  of
          section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (d)     Explanatory Memoranda to the Conventions.


     (e)     Protocol on the Control of Firearms, Ammunition  and  other
          Related  Materials  in  the   Southern   African   Development
          Community (SADC) Region, tabled in terms of section 231(2)  of
          the Constitution, 1996.


     (f)     Explanatory Memorandum to the Protocol.


 (3)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Safety and Security for information:


     Agreement between the Government of the Republic  of  South  Africa
     and  the  Government  of  the  Republic  of  Portugal   on   Police
     Cooperation,  tabled  in   terms   of   section   231(3)   of   the
     Constitution, 1996.


 (4)    The following paper is referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Finance:


     Government Notice No 1038 published in the  Government  Gazette  No
     23690  dated  30  July  2002,  Statements  of  the   National   and
     Provincial   Government's   Revenue,   Expenditure   and   National
     Borrowing as at 30 June 2002, made in terms of section  32  of  the
     Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1 of 1999) and  section
     19 of the Division of Revenue Act, 2002 (Act No 5 of 2002).


 (5)    The following papers are  referred  to  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Education:


     (a)      Annual  Report  and  Financial  Statements  of  the  South
          African Certification Council for 2001-2002.


     (b)     Revised National Curriculum Statement Grades R-9  (Schools)
          Policy 2002:
       (i)   Languages Learning Area Home Language;


       (ii)  Languages Learning Area 1st Additional Language;


       (iii) Languages Learning Area 2nd Additional Language.


 (6)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee  on
     Environmental Affairs and Tourism for consideration and report:


     (a)      The  Rotterdam  Convention  on  Prior   Informed   Consent
          Procedure for certain Hazardous Chemicals  and  Pesticides  in
          International Trade, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of  the
          Constitution, 1996.


     (b)     Explanatory Memorandum to the Convention.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Education:

 (a)    Government Notice No R 58 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     23600 dated 5 July 2002: Amendment of Schedule 1, made in terms  of
     section 33 of the South African Revenue Services Act, 1997 (Act  No
     34 of 1997).


 (b)    Government Notice No R 987 published in  Government  Gazette  No
     23651 dated 19 July 2002: Regulations in terms  of  section  18  of
     the Unemployment Insurance Contributions Act, 2002  (Act  No  4  of
     2002).


 (c)    Government Notice No R 990 published in  Government  Gazette  No
     23651 dated 19 July 2002:  Determination  of  limit  on  amount  of
     remuneration for  purposes  of  determination  of  contribution  in
     terms of section 6  of  the  Unemployment  Insurance  Contributions
     Act, 2002 (Act No 4 of 2002).

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development: (a) Proclamation No R 54 published in Government Gazette No 23548 dated 21 June 2002, Commencement of section 35 of the Judicial Matters Amendment Act, 2000 (Act no 62 of 2000).

 (b)    Proclamation No R 55 published in Government  Gazette  No  23553
     dated 24  June  2002:  Referral  of  matters  to  existing  Special
     Investigating Unit and Special Tribunal, tabled  in  terms  of  the
     Special Investigating Units and Special Tribunals  Act,  1996  (Act
     No 74 of 1996).


 (c)    Government Notice No R 894 published in  Government  Gazette  No
     23564 dated 5 July 2002: Regulations made in terms of  the  Judges'
     Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Act, 2001 (Act No  47  of
     2001).


 (d)    Proclamation No R 66 published in Government  Gazette  No  23730
     dated 8 August  2002:  Referral  of  matters  to  existing  Special
     Investigating Unit and Special Tribunal Act, made in terms  of  the
     Act (Act No 74 of 1996).

1. The Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:

 Annual Report of the National Advisory Council on Innovation for 2001.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism on Exclusion of Land from Kalahari Gemsbok National Park, dated 20 August 2002:

   The Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism, having considered a request for approval by Parliament of the exclusion of two portions of land from the Kalahari Gemsbok National Park, referred to it, recommends that the House approve the following:

       The exclusion from the  Kalahari  Gemsbok  National  Park,  in
       terms of section 2(3) of the National Parks Act, 1976 (Act No.
       57 of 1976), of the land described as -
       (a) the area CDEFGC (portion 1 of farm 643) San  Erfenisgronde
           in the Surveyor-General Diagram No. SG253/2002, in  extent
           30 134,7803 ha, situated in  the  administrative  district
           of Mier NCO81, province of the Northern Cape; and
   
   
       (b) the area ABCGA (portion 2 of farm 643) Mier  Erfenisgronde
           in the Surveyor-General Diagram No. SG254/2002, in  extent
           27 769,2969 ha, situated in  the  administrative  district
           of Mier NCO81, province of the Northern Cape,
   
   
       for handing back to the Department of Public Works, upon which
       the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs will  issue  the
       title for transfer to the +Khomani San and  Mier  communities,
       as specified in the Ae! Kalahari Heritage Park Agreement.
   

 Request to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism on the Stockholm Convention on Persistent Organic Pollutants, dated 20 August 2002:

   The Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Stockholm Convention on Persistent Organic Pollutants, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Convention.

 Request to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism on the Rotterdam Convention on PIC Procedure for Certain Hazardous Chemicals and Pesticides in International Trade, dated 20 August 2002:

   The Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Rotterdam Convention on the Prior Informed Consent (PIC) Procedure for Certain Hazardous Chemicals and Pesticides in International Trade, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Convention.

 Request to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on the UNAFRI Statute for Prevention of Crime and Treatment of Offenders, dated 14 August 2002:

   The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Statute of the United Nations African Institute for the Prevention of Crime and the Treatment of Offenders (UNAFRI), referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Statute.

 Request to be considered.

1. Report of the Ad Hoc Committee on Filling of Vacancy on Commission for Gender Equality, dated 19 August 2002:

   The Ad Hoc Committee on Filling of Vacancy on Commission for Gender Equality, having considered nominations to fill a vacancy on the Commission for Gender Equality, recommends, in accordance with section 193(5) of the Constitution, the following person for appointment to the Commission:

   Seroke, J.

 Nomination to be considered.