National Assembly - 14 May 2002
TUESDAY, 14 MAY 2002 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
The House met at 14:06.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NEW MEMBER
(Announcement)
The Speaker announced that the vacancy caused by the resignation of Dr A S Nkomo had been filled, in accordance with item 6(3) of Schedule 6 to the Constitution, 1996, by the nomination of Ms H N Qegu with effect from 1 May 2002. Ms H N Qegu, accompanied by Mrs M C Lobe and Mr S D Montsitsi, made and subscribed the oath and took her seat.
The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, it is most appropriate that we should today swear in a new member to this National Assembly. She is particularly welcome today, because today we mark the occasion when 90 years ago African and coloured women from the Free State came and first addressed the institution of Parliament in order to seek redress from the restrictions that were imposed on them. [Applause.]
We have with us some of the women whom we are celebrating, including the premier of the Free State, a woman who very wisely was appointed in that position.
An HON MEMBER: Halala! [Well done!] [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Thank you all.
NOTICES OF MOTION Mrs N B GXOWA: Madam Speaker, I give notice that at the next sitting I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes the extraordinary role played by women in the struggle for the liberation of the people of South Africa and the struggle for the rights of women and gender equality, a role that goes back to the roots of our liberation movement and the foundation of the African National Congress;
(2) recalls that 90 years ago women from the Free State collected more than 5 000 signatures and handed over a petition, protesting the laws and regulations that entrenched the inferiority of women; and
(3) pays honour to these mothers of our liberation, whose contribution to the values that underpin the policies of the African National Congress are a foundation stone of the free and democratic South Africa. [Applause.]
Mr E K MOORCROFT: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House -
(1) notes the opinion expressed by hon Minister Lekota last week in which he conceded that the ANC’s policy of ``quiet diplomacy’’ towards Zimbabwe has failed;
(2) congratulates the hon Minister for being the first member of Government to have the courage to state publicly what has been so obvious to all for so long;
(3) observes that Zanu-PF misrule has led to untold misery for millions of Zimbabweans and constitutes a threat to our entire subcontinent;
(4) therefore censures the hon the President, the hon the Minister of Foreign Affairs and all members of the ANC, including especially the members of the Parliamentary observer mission who lacked the courage to take a principled stand against tyranny and misrule; and
(5) urges the hon the President to follow the example set by Minister Lekota and to put the interests of the people of Zimbabwe and of the subcontinent before his loyalty to the Mugabe regime. [Applause.]
Mr V B NDLOVU: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House -
(1) is aggrieved by the fact that members of the SAPS are under siege by the criminal elements who do not want to see crime levels going down;
(2) sadly notes that 185 police officers were murdered in the year 2000, and that 163 police officers were murdered in 2001;
(3) further notes that police officers have become targets because, among other things, criminals want to loot their firearms;
(4) wishes all bereaved families emotional recovery for the loss they have endured of their loved ones; and
(5) appeals to the public at large to identify the criminals to ensure the safety of the communities that the police is trying to maintain.
Mrs B M NTULI: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that President Thabo Mbeki visited Norway to persuade the Nordic countries to support Nepad;
(2) further notes that the Nordic countries played an important role in supporting the struggle for the liberation of the people of South Africa;
(3) welcomes the initiatives by the President of the Republic of South Africa, the hon Thabo Mbeki, to influence the international community to support the Nepad initiative; and
(4) calls on the Nordic countries and the international community to support Nepad, as it is a viable plan to address underdevelopment and poverty caused by the legacy of colonialism, apartheid and racism on the African continent. [Applause.]
Mrs S M CAMERER: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of this House:
That the House -
(1) notes the announcement to the effect that 33 prisoners, among them members of the ANC and the PAC who failed to get amnesty from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, have received presidential pardons;
(2) has no objection in principle to presidential pardons, but is of the opinion that these should be granted in an equitable and impartial manner by the head of state;
(3) regrets the lack of specific information around the releases as to who those pardoned are and for what crimes; and
(4) therefore calls on -
(a) the Government to be completely transparent about such releases;
and
(b) the President to be completely evenhanded in any pardons which
may be contemplated for those to whom amnesty was denied by the
Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
Mr D G MKONO: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I will move on behalf of the UDM at the next sitting of the House:
That the House -
(1) notes the contradictory statements by the Eastern Cape Health Department permanent secretary and the Eastern Cape Health MEC, which creates confusion regarding whether or not the province’s eight cash- strapped SA National Tuberculosis, Santa, hospitals have received their subsidies;
(2) further notes the importance of these hospitals, especially in a province that has experienced a TB crisis since the 1950s, and duly notes that these hospitals run at one-eighth of the cost to the state when compared to provincial hospitals;
(3) expresses concern at the bureaucratic bungling by state officials, especially in the light that TB is the province’s biggest killer; and
(4) calls on the Minister of Health to intervene urgently and address this issue adequately.
Miss M N BUTHELEZI: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that former President of the United States, Mr Jimmy Carter, visited Cuba;
(2) further notes that during this visit he met with the President of the People’s Democratic Republic of Cuba, Comrade Fidel Castro;
(3) believes that -
(a) this historic visit has the potential of ushering in a new era
in the United States-Cuba relations; and
(b) decades of economic blockade aimed at undermining the
sovereignty of Cuba and the right of its people to determine
their own destiny may come to an end in the long term;
(4) welcomes the historic visit by Jimmy Carter; and
(5) hopes that it will contribute positively to the lifting of the economic blockade against the freedom-loving people of Cuba.
Dr S E M PHEKO: Madam Speaker, I give notice that at the next sitting of the House I shall move:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) our traditional leaders cannot be wished away as they are our
entry point to the African system of governance;
(b) the Government needs to decide whether our traditional leaders
will be kept as rulers in the ghettoes of former bantustans or
brought to the centre of the African system of governance;
(c) the recent removal through an SABC media announcement on 27
March this year of Paramount Chief Samuel Mankuroane, the Kgosi
of Batlhaping ba ga Phuduhucwana, by the North West Provincial
Executive Council violates the norms of our legislation which
require the community and members of the tribe to be consulted;
(d) there is a dispute in the chieftaincy and the Premier should
utilise the full provisions of the law to settle the dispute
within the community of Taung; and
(e) the PAC demands that reported acts of intimidation by the
paramount chief be fully investigated;
(2) notes with deep concern the unwillingness of the Premier of the North West to meet with the Kgosi of Batlhaping ba ga Phuduhucwana and the community of Taung, despite several written requests from the community … [Time expired.]
Mnr C AUCAMP: Mev die Speaker, namens die AEB gee ek kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag sal voorstel:
Dat die Huis -
(1) daarvan kennis neem dat president Mbeki aan 33 gevangenes, waarvan sommige deur die WVK amnestie geweier is, presidensiële kwytskelding verleen het ingevolge sy reg kragtens artikel 84(j) van die Grondwet;
(2) die President versoek om dringend die name en oortredings van en die motivering vir sy besluit te verskaf, asook die kriteria waarvolgens hy hierdie kwytskelding verleen het;
(3) in die lig van die feit dat hierdie kwytskelding slegs aan ANC- en PAC-veroordeeldes verleen is, ander politieke partye dringend versoek om ‘n gemotiveerde aansoek by die Presidensie in te dien, en die President versoek om sodanig op te tree dat verseker word dat hierdie saak nie ‘n selektiewe politieke kleur kry waarin die politieke kant waar die oortreder gestaan het die deurslaggewende faktor word nie; en
(4) sy vertroue uitspreek dat hierdie besluit van die President die begin sal wees van die finale toemaak van die boeke van die verlede. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the AEB:
That the House -
(1) notes that, in accordance with his powers in terms of section 84(j) of the Constitution, President Mbeki has granted presidential pardon to 33 prisoners, some of whom were refused amnesty by the TRC;
(2) requests the President urgently to furnish the names and offences of these prisoners and the motivation for his decision, as well as the criteria according to which he granted this pardon;
(3) in the light of the fact that this pardon was only granted to ANC and PAC offenders, urgently requests other political parties to submit a motivated application to the Presidency, and requests the President to act in such a way as to ensure that this matter does not gain a selective political colour in which the political stance of the offender becomes the decisive factor; and
(4) expresses the confidence that this decision by the President will be the beginning of the final closure of the books of the past.]
Mrs F MAHOMED: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that the South African National Council of Churches (SACC) accused some churches of failing to contribute to the fight against Aids by discouraging the use of condoms;
(2) believes that the message of encouraging protected sex through the use of a condom is an integral part of the most effective component of the fight against the spread of the disease and ensuring that the youth in particular take responsibility to fight the spread of this pandemic;
(3) echoes the stance taken by the SACC; and
(4) calls on the said churches to join the partnership against the spread of HIV/Aids and to spread the message of protected sex especially to that segment of our population which is very sexually active.
Adv P S SWART: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next siting day of the House I shall move:
That the House -
(1) notes the recent statement by Safety and Security Minister Charles Nqakula that the regular release of crime statistics can demoralise society; (2) reminds him that his predecessor’s moratorium on statistics in 2001 had a negative impact on public morale;
(3) notes that, due to the hard work of the SAPS, crime stabilised with slight decreases in some crimes during 2001;
(4) congratulates the understaffed and overworked police on these and other recent successes and mourns with them the loss of colleagues, particularly Senior Superintendent Elias Mashau of Diepkloof; and
(5) calls on the Minister not to go underground in typical communist fashion, but rather to opt for a transparent and accountable department in the interests of the police and the public alike. [Applause.]
Mr H J BEKKER: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP: That the House -
(1) applauds the purchase agreement reached in principle between First Rand Bank and Saambou’s curator, which will circumvent the possible liquidation of Saambou;
(2) further applauds the fact that an offer was made in terms of which the employees of Saambou can receive full retrenchment packages, and thus avoid the severe consequences of liquidation and the closing of the business; and
(3) compliments the curator, Mr John Louw, for having secured such a deal to assist Saambou employees and clients to get their dues back before the new owner takes over.
Mr S B NQODI: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House - (1) notes that South Africa is the only tourism destination in the world to have increased its market share after the 11 September attack;
(2) recognises that tourists in South Africa have defied the negative image of our country that certain members of the opposition like to paint, instead finding on our shores and in our heartland a safe and welcoming land, beset by many challenges but facing up to its future with optimism, courage and creativity;
(3) thanks all the tourists who have visited us for seeing for themselves the pleasure that our country has to offer and for rating our country as a safe destination; and
(4) extends its open arms to all future tourists and bids them ``siyanamkela’’ [welcome]. [Applause.]
Mr J SCHIPPERS: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the New NP:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) nearly 2 000 people will lose their jobs because of the collapse
of Saambou;
(b) many families will lose a substantial amount of their income, or
even the only income they receive; and
(c) Saambou's collapse was caused by poor corporate governance and
weak decision-making by the top management; and
(2) appeals to the curator, Mr John Louw, and the respective unions to -
(a) bear in mind the trauma currently experienced by the affected
families during their retrenchment package negotiations; and
(b) negotiate reasonable severance packages.
TRIBUTE TO SLAIN POLICEMEN AND WOMEN
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the ANC, I move without notice:
That the House -
(1) notes that friends and family from all over gathered in Pretoria
on Sunday at a memorial service attended by Safety and Security
Minister, the honourable Charles Nqakula, the National Police
Commissioner and Gauteng Premier Mbhazima Shilowa;
(2) recalls that 163 police members were murdered in 2001, and 31
have been murdered in 2002;
(3) calls on all who seek a developed South Africa that is safe for
our people to assist the police to do their work, and offer
whatever support they are able to through participation in
community police forums, neighbourhood watches and volunteering at
their local police stations;
(4) pays tribute to those who fell in the course of their duty in
fighting crime; and
(5) accords them the honour they deserve for sacrificing their lives
for the good of the people and development of our country.
Agreed to.
DEATH OF MRS FIKILE REGINA MATTHEWS
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice: That the House -
(1) expresses its deep regret and sadness at the death of Mrs Fikile Regina Matthews;
(2) conveys its sincere condolences to her daughter Mrs Naledi Pandor, Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, her husband, the honourable Deputy Minister Joe Matthews, and to other members of her family in their sad bereavement;
(3) affirms the great affection and esteem in which she was held by all those who knew her; and
(4) expresses its gratitude for her life of outstanding loyalty and close association with the struggle for freedom and democracy in our country. Agreed to.
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 21 - Defence:
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Madam Speaker, hon members of the National Assembly and invited guests, last year we identified five challenges facing the Department of Defence. They were, firstly, to maintain a core force that is able to meet its commitments to deal with a wide range of contingencies. The force must have the capacity to expand to an appropriate size when necessary, to be able to mount peace support operations, as well as support for the SAPS for social services.
To date we have deployed 930 members of the SA Defence Force in United Nations, Organisation of African Unity and other missions covering a wide range of tasks, including military liaison officers, military observers, staff officers, specialised teams, protection services and general military assistance. Members of the SANDF are deployed in Uganda, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Algeria, the Comoros and Burundi. The SANDF is also participating in SADC initiatives to render planning assistance to the Lesotho Defence Force for support during Lesotho’s national elections this month.
We will also be supporting the SA Police Service and the Department of Foreign Affairs in the inauguration of the African Union during June in Durban, and during the World Summit on Sustainable Development in Johannesburg in August.
The second challenge was the alignment of policy and budget. This has been a problem that we have been grappling with for some time. The mismatch between defence policy and our Defence budget allocation has forced us to re-examine our overall strategy with an aim of becoming affordable while still being able to deliver an effective Defence Force.
When the department, services and divisions drew up a force structure to meet the needs determined by our policy, its estimated cost was R4,1 billion over its budget allocation. It has now been redrawn and is in the final stages of discussion. Some hard decisions will have to be made and the proposal will be taken to Cabinet and Parliament before implementation.
The third challenge continues to be the absorption of new technology. New technology, embodied in the weapons system being delivered through the strategic defence packages impact on every aspect of defence, from technical training and human resource planning to maintenance; and from a provisioning system, ie supply lines, spares, etc, to a new infrastructure, ie buildings, reticulation and storage. The Chiefs of the Navy and Air Force have been working for the past 18 months on plans to accommodate and absorb the new equipment. Plans in this regard will be presented to the portfolio committees during this parliamentary session.
The fourth challenge was the need to develop capacity to respond effectively to our changing regional situation. The situation in our region is changing constantly. This time last year no one could have guessed that Angola would be ending its civil war, that the DRC peace talks would be inching forward in Sun City and Pretoria, and that Zimbabwe would be trying to overcome its polarisation following its recent presidential elections. Democratic elections are taking place continually throughout the SADC region and the next in line is Lesotho.
The fifth challenge was to qualitatively increase the capacity of the Defence Secretariat. This includes managing problems of resource management, problems of transition identified in the ministerial inquiry and the new service system. The ministerial inquiry, which was set up after the Tempe and Phalaborwa shootings, identified a number of specific areas that needed attention. The department has systematically and concretely responded in detail to that report. Consequently, the atmosphere in the SA National Defence Force has improved immensely.
However, the problems of crime within the department continue to plague us. The control mechanisms that are in place are proving inadequate. Divisional managers still have to take full count for safeguarding the assets entrusted to them. Military discipline still needs to be internalised and buttressed. We are putting much effort into dealing with these problems and expect to turn that situation around inside of the next four to six months. We have now taken the necessary steps to strengthen the secretariat with the appointment of the chief financial officer and the appointment of the chief of policy and planning. The departmental strategic plan is the first result of these changes.
Defence is a large and complicated machine. Over and above its four services and 14 divisions - finance, logistics, intelligence, personnel, joint support, joint operations, corporate communications, chaplaincy, military police, joint training, foreign relations, equal opportunities and affirmative action, and acquisitions - it has its own language, its own traditions and culture. Over the last eight years, we have worked at cultivating an integrated Defence Force, a new military culture and policies that are appropriate to a democratic society. Our efforts are now bearing fruit and we are picking up speed. It has been an extremely difficult task to turn around this complex and costly machine.
We have no choice but to constantly educate and re-educate the public on the need for defence capabilities in peacetime and in war. The concept of security embodied in our Constitution goes beyond mere territorial defence. It embraces security of persons, environment, and an end to human conflict and suffering generally. We are therefore constitutionally bound to maintain a force that can produce security and comfort for our populace and beyond.
The recent debates on the strategic defence packages counterpoised defence needs to social needs. This is a wrong approach to the question. Defence and social needs go together because each reinforces the other. If investors must invest and create jobs, they need a secure and stable investment atmosphere in South Africa and Southern Africa. Moreover, our coastline of some 3 000 km is our longest frontier and, as we are a trading country with marine resources, our harbours are strategic to our survival.
Lastly, as members of the United Nations and the Organisation of African Unity, we are deeply committed to the advancement of world peace. Defence capabilities cannot be turned on and off like a light switch. They have to be maintained and improved upon from day to day and generation to generation. In the globalising unipolar world of our day, September 11th revealed that even the most powerful nation in the world cannot afford to wallow in complacency. New threats of a higher calibre are always lurking somewhere. Our nation must be forever vigilant.
Defence has now reached a turning point. The department is now reaching its target of transparency in defence management, good governance and accountability. This is a great step forward in the building of our democracy. In keeping with constitutional prescripts and public sector reform initiatives, our medium-term direction for defence is captured in the core objectives described in the strategic plan tabled in Parliament today. The implementation of these objectives is reflected in the operational plan for the financial year 2002-03.
These comprehensive plans facilitate direction and control of defence at a political level, by myself, and at the departmental level, by the Secretary for Defence and the Chief of the National Defence Force. Performance against these plans will be reported quarterly to enable corrective measures where necessary. This provides assurance that defence objectives will be achieved and officials may be individually held to account for their performance.
To ensure accountability, overall performance against these plans will be reported in the defence annual report to be tabled in Parliament in September 2003. This report will include the prescribed audited financial statements and the Auditor-General’s report. We intend to achieve an unqualified financial audit report, as was achieved for the first time for the financial year 2000-01. In concluding my budget speech last year, I told this House that:
… to ensure that we are able to meet the challenges we face, we must make the right strategic decisions now. We must prioritise issues and choose what to do with the money we get.
These choices have now been identified and we have defined precisely how our goals are to be achieved. We are putting together a new force design and structure that will both enable us to carry put our constitutional obligations in the widest sense, whilst being affordable.
A proposal will be tabled before Cabinet whose salient points will include the comprehensive military strategy that has been drawn up based on available resources, Government priorities and likely expectations of defence. The strategy takes into account the importance of promoting regional security, regional peacekeeping initiatives, support to other Government departments like Foreign Affairs, Trade and Industry, etc, and the maintenance of basic capabilities in the event of a conventional conflict.
Factors critical to the effectiveness of such a force are, to a large part, financially determined. Some of those factors are that the defence allocation should maintain its level; the new human resource strategy must be drawn up, approved and implemented; and that routine internal deployments must be phased out in the next six years.
There are thus a number of measures that need to be taken to effect these changes, ranging from interservice co-operation, outsourcing, core location, elimination of duplication and increases in efficiency.
We have now succeeded in finalising the integration process. Seven different military formations have been brought together and successfully welded into one SA National Defence Force - a single force representative of the demographics of our country, uniformly trained, combat ready, with a code of conduct and a uniformity of purpose. What remains for us now is to pare the National Defence Force to its correct size and proportions. We are embarking on this process of rationalisation, guided by a new human resource strategy.
I now turn to the strategic defence packages. The levels of expenditure of the Defence public programme have been set out in the main Budget Speech. Government and departmental expenditure will continue to increase from this year’s level of R6,3 billion to the peak of R7,7 billion in 2005. Thereafter, expenditure will rapidly decline to under R1,4 billion per year based on the present focus of the exchange rate.
The joint investigation team made comprehensive recommendations of the strategic defence package process. Most of the recommendations necessitated policy adaptation. The department and Armscor immediately embarked upon a complete rewriting of the affected acquisition policy and the first draft of the new policy is almost ready for discussion. The recommendations from our parliamentary committees will be incorporated into this new policy.
Although only 16% of the defence industrial participation obligations has presently been contracted, it has already made a considerable impact on the design, development and manufacturing competencies and turnover of our local defence-related industry. The defence industrial participation obligations have, to date, resulted in the contract to the value of US $376 million as against a planned target of US $308 million, which means that we are presently some 22% ahead of schedule.
As far as national industrial participation is concerned, equally good progress has been realised. By the end of 2001, some 18 projects covering diverse fields like engineering, aviation, agriculture and beneficiation had completed the construction and investment phases and had commenced production. The current level of NIP-related export and investment stands at US $400 million and are expected to generate some US $5 billion by the year 2004. The first large NIP milestone obligation of some US $3,9 billion is to be reached in the coming financial year.
In adopting the Constitutive Act of the African Union in July last year, African leaders stated as follows, and I quote:
We are conscious of the fact that the scourge of conflicts in Africa constitutes a major impediment to the socioeconomic development of the continent and of the need to promote peace, security and stability as a prerequisite for the implementation of our development and integration agenda.
It is important to remember that the African Union’s principles are based on a number of antecedents, including those in the security area. What is new today, however, is that we seek implementation in a post-Cold War period, within the reality of a globalising world and a widespread commitment among African leaders to democracy. Among the principles of the African Union is the establishment of a common defence policy for the African continent.
The Inter-state Defence and Security Committee of SADC is working towards regional partnership in this regard. It has already adopted a draft of a mutual defence pact which aims to eliminate and prevent conflict in the region and ensure collective approach to security. This draft will be presented to the heads of state for signing at the SADC summit later this year.
The key provisions of the draft are military preparedness, a commitment to collective defence, defence co-operation between SADC states and compatibility of defence equipment and systems, in particular, communications. The implication of the pact plays an unconditional commitment of states to the prevention of conflict to ensure peace and stability and security in the SADC region. Central to the success of collective defence and security is the will and ability of SADC member states to enforce the pact.
How does defence envisage operationalising Nepad? The key is to ensure that defence efforts are put behind the implementation of Nepad. We must build the capacity of regional organisations to implement the provisions of this pact. We must build the capacity of national governments to improve security processes. The joint security commissions set up between Botswana, Namibia, Mozambique and Lesotho will facilitate a common understanding among SADC states of the need for strong civil military relations as fundamental to the working of a democratic state.
In conclusion, my thanks go to the whole of the department, the SA National Defence Force, the Secretariat, the Ministry, Armscor, BMATT, advisory bodies and committees, NGOs, universities and other sections of civil society. Special thanks to the hon Ntsiki Mashimbye, the outgoing chair of the now disbanded Joint Standing Committee on Defence … [Interjections.] It is not disbanded. I apologise. He is the outgoing chair of that standing committee. Special thanks also go to all hon members who serve on that committee. It has a proud record. My thanks also goes to Mr Mokoena and the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs. And, as always, thanks to the chair of the portfolio committee, Ms Thandi Modise, and her committee. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Minister, on behalf of the members of the House, may I congratulate the Defence Force Choir that performed in the precincts today. Their performance was both stupendous and magnificent, and you may say that to them. Thank you! [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Chairperson, modesty prevents us from responding. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Ms T R MODISE: Chairperson, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, I am sure that the Deputy President is as impressed as I am by the magnificent uniforms of the SA National Defence Force. [Applause.]
My respect goes to the fallen men and women in uniform who have lost their lives in defence and service of the democratic South Africa. Our condolences go, in particular, to the families of Makhado and Mbuyaza, and we hope that those who were injured in the Burundi shootings are recovering. This Defence Budget Vote is the first one that Comrade Steve Tshwete misses, and we shall miss him too.
Allow me to congratulate the Minister, who for the first time qualified the Auditor-General’s report. Clearly, we are on the right track. [Applause.]
In his speech, the Minister of Defence quotes from the African leaders on the occasion of the launch of the Constitutive Act of the African Union, saying:
We are conscious of the fact that the scourge of conflict in Africa constitutes a major impediment to the socioeconomic development of the continent and of the need to promote peace, security and stability as a prerequisite for the implementation of our development and integration agenda.
So, we know that stability, security, peace and development are on the agenda of the AU. We also know that the integration of values and systems, as well as cultures and beliefs of the people of Africa are on that agenda. The Minister further spoke about South Africa’s role in the SADC region. The need to create conditions conducive to law and order, stability, peace and development cannot be overemphasized if we are serious about the democratisation of this region.
If South Africa congratulates herself on the leading role in the democratisation of the continent and the re-emergence of Africa as an economic development site, South Africa then needs to consider the need to contribute towards the conditions that are conducive to that democratisation. That contribution should not just be in speeches in this House or in debates around the academic elite of this country. We need to translate this contribution into tasks and roles. These tasks and roles must be reflected in the Defence Budget. My colleagues will speak on the contribution of Defence to Nepad.
The defence agreement which the Minister is talking about - which will be signed later this year - moves us practically towards preventing conflict in the region. It moves us towards the common defence policies and compatible equipment and systems. This means that equipment systems’ language will be standardised.
South Africa has the largest defence industry on the continent and therefore stands to benefit as the only industry in the defence field when standardisation takes place. The common defence policies in SADC and in West Africa are but the stepping stones towards the continental defence policy.
We would be naive if we in Africa, especially in South Africa, think that we should not spend on defence. If anything, the events of 11 September questions the ability of the SANDF to protect the sovereignty and integrity of the Republic. How ready are we? What do we have that will make sure that we do not have opportunists trying to get in and out of this country as they did in America? We need to sharpen our ability to collect information and increase our agility to protect the lives and properties of South Africans.
This brings me to the question which I raised in the budget debate of 2000 and 2001, on Defence intelligence. The age, numbers, racial, geographic and gender spread of this component of the Defence Force needs to be looked into. The Chief of the SANDF is the overall Chief of Defence and cannot be exempted from being held responsible for whatever happens in that division.
Therefore, stories of victimisation of the ex-nonstatutory members must be looked into. Are they just stories? Why are the cases of victimisation increasing? Why are these spreading and why are we not listening? The Defence Intelligence falls under the oversight of the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence, but the Portfolio Committee on Defence still has the budgetary responsibility.
Last year I vowed, standing on this podium, that we would not agree to budget items under Defence Intelligence, unless the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence tells us to do so. This time around they have assured us that we should agree and we have agreed.
However, one needs to consider the centralisation of sensitive information. It might be a good thing right now, but it might also, in the long run, prove to be a weakness of this Government.
South Africa needs to recognise that the DOD is one of its largest employers. It gives jobs to 70 000 people. It is, therefore, duty bound to contribute towards nation-building and the national skilling programme. An avenue for this has been created via the service corps. This year an amount of R46 million has been earmarked for the service corps.
On a recent portfolio committee study tour to Japan, we learned that the Japanese Defence Force has its own driving schools. Now, the SANDF does not have that. The service corps cannot even impart this skill to the members who should be benefiting, and keeps on contracting out to people.
One would have assumed that when one legislates in the draft defence Bill that members of the Defence Force will carry driving licenses extraordinary, that in fact, as members enter the SANDF, training in driving skills would be provided. [Applause.] Therefore, one does not expect to see members leaving the Defence Force still unable to drive an ordinary vehicle. It is something which is very small, but needs to be looked into. One of my colleagues will look into the service corps, ie what its weaknesses are and what we think should be done about it.
Now, the Defence Review process of South Africa has been hailed as the most progressive in the world. It removed the defence policies and issues from being the preserve of a few elite and of the military, and allowed for popular participation of the people.
It transferred the label of the people’s Defence Force to the military and brought back the histories of the armies of Sekhukhuni, Shaka, Mzilikazi, Kruger, Moshoeshoe and Makana. It brought back ownership, pride and respect of men and women in uniform. This pride and ownership needs to be followed up by recognition in rands and cents. Therefore, when we have to spend, we must spend.
The Minister referred to the need to bring policies, force design and budget into line. We agree with that, and we believe that a review of the Defence Review is necessary. We, however, do not agree with the Minister that the military must review themselves without inputs from the public or public representatives. Restructuring to enhance functional and operational efficiency is the preserve of the Department of Defence. Restructuring that causes major policy changes is not the preserve of the Department of Defence. [Applause.]
We need to learn from the example of Nigeria how little things that are overlooked in the current can acquire serious racial, geo-ethnic connotations and become problematic in the future. We agree that the Defence Secretariat needs to be strengthened.
The Budget shows that R6,3 million has been put aside for the reserve force management. This figure is way below the R39 million set aside for policy and planning, and way below the R56,7 million set aside for the legal services. This matter concerns us. If we are true to the one-force concept, why are we only putting aside R6,3 million for the reserve forces, or have I read the budget wrongly?
Secondly, the legal services figure shows that most of the department’s money is spent on legal matters. Of course, this would make sense if this figure also reflects the amount of money spent on the restructuring of the Military Justice System. However, if this R56,7 million does not reflect the restructuring of the Military Justice System, then I have a big problem.
I have a big problem, because this means that people in the Defence Force are still subject to the old court martial system, and that would be unfair. I would link this to a lot of mistrials, particularly a case of one Keswa, an ex-Tempe-based member of the SANDF, who was tried in Afrikaans, which he could not understand. He was thrown out of the system and the whole matter was heard in exactly five minutes.
We have raised a number of similar cases. These cases need to be reviewed. People cannot just be thrown out because of unjust systems. [Applause.] Whether we are talking about justice in the Defence Force or in the civil world out there, it still needs to be fair. People need to feel that, in fact, they have been heard properly and that they have been convicted properly. I do not want the politicians to keep on bringing up these matters, nor do I want to keep on acting on behalf of ex-members of the SANDF. However, there is a limit to what we should do, and we need to be guided. When cases such as the case involving the aforementioned Keswa come to the fore, I cannot stand aside and say that because I am not involved in the department I can do nothing for Keswa. It pains me to admit that there are many Keswas out there who are being thrown out of the system. [Applause.]
The perception of racial discrimination has to be looked into. We cannot continue pretending, for instance, that unhappiness within the ranks, low morale, even amongst the middle management of the Defence Force, is not an issue that should concern us, nor should we continue to leave the issue of the Cape Corps hanging. It needs to be concluded. We need to bring finality to these issues and close the chapter on them.
During the budget hearings the committee also heard about the continued theft and loss of property within the Department of Defence. These losses are too high, and steps need to be taken to stop them.
Care needs to be taken when we rightsize because the experience of countries with more peacekeeping experience shows that one needs to treble the force that one deploys internationally at any given time. Peacekeeping is new to us. It is happening. I am sure we are preparing for this role, but have we dedicated personnel and resources specifically for this role?
After World War II Japan opted for a defensive posture, and she only sent her troops on noncombat peacekeeping missions. South Africa - at least Parliament - has not considered this. We have not even made a distinction between peacekeeping, peacemaking and peace enforcement. We need to sit down and make up our minds as to what roles we definitely would not want to engage in when we send away our peacekeeping forces in future.
South Africa has a Defence Force with four arms of service. Chapter 1 of the White Paper on Defence says that the Defence Force shall be a balanced, modern, affordable and technologically advanced military force, capable of executing its tasks, duties, effectively and efficiently. The strategic defence packages are simply there to make sure that the SA National Defence Force is as balanced as per the Defence Review, the White Paper and the Constitution of this country. Therefore, to juxtapose the re-equipment of SANDF with more houses or more clinics is not correct. We need both, we do not need one or the other.
We need to accept that the price has become a bit higher than it was initially calculated. However, South Africa now lives within the community of nations and South Africa wanted, and has a free market system. We must have a defence force, we must have bread, houses, schools, jobs, and we must have flowers. However, we must also equip our Defence Force because we agreed that we wanted a balanced, technologically advanced Defence Force.
To get all these is to get stability. To get stability is to work towards the development we need in the country and in the region. And that is our contribution towards the Nepad initiative. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Adv H C SCHMIDT: Chairperson, it is extremely ironic that in the new democratic South Africa, defence spending has risen to similar importance as to that found during the previous dispensation. In fact, the Department of Defence has been allocated the second biggest budget, totalling R18,4 billion. The following disconcerting issues need to be mentioned:
Firstly, a review of the Defence Review needs to be undertaken. The scandalous arms deal and the deployments in Burundi and the DRC have indicated that the design and structure of the National Defence Force need to be reformulated.
Secondly, incidents in Burundi and the DRC provide reason to reconsider the deployment of our troops in these countries, especially in light of the expensive and failed DRC conference at Sun City.
Thirdly, the shocking findings of the joint investigative team released in November last year clearly implicated Government and definitely did not exonerate it. The suspension of the former Chief Whip of the ANC; the resignation of Mr Shaik as the Chief Acquisition Officer; the arrest of a managing director of a well-known German company and his subsequent prosecution, all indicate that the Cabinet should never have been involved in the process of selecting the various contractors.
Government has indicated to the public that the cost of the arms deal is R52,7 billion. Whilst the figure can rapidly double owing to, inter alia, finance costs, Government has thus far failed to inform the public as to the full expected costs of the arms deal to the tax-payer. Spending on the arms deal for this year only stands at R7,6 billion, whilst the Department of Education has been allocated a mere R8,8 billion and the Department of Health a total of R7,1 billion - this against the total Defence budget of R18 billion.
The service corps has, despite its widely publicised failings, been allocated an amount of R46 million for the continuation of its disastrous attempts to provide skills to those who leave the SANDF.
Military trade unions have been spiralling out of control owing to poor, if not nonexistent human resource practices. The Minister appears to conduct, with due respect, a closed-door policy on this issue. Issues pertaining to the Black, Indian, Coloured Forum and the SANDF former members’ union have still not been resolved.
Personnel expenditure, with the exclusion of the arms deal, is quoted at 52% of the total budget, which is simply caused by too many generals and senior staff within the department.
Theft and loss of military property remains unacceptably high. There are reports of Defence Force members being involved in the theft of Defence Force property, where property has inexplicably gone missing. As indicated in the media yesterday, highlighting a series of break-ins into Denel in Centurion is a cause for concern.
The removal of the permanent force element from the border patrols in the Eastern Cape, Free State and KwaZulu-Natal borders is causing alarm amongst small-scale and large-scale stock farmers. They want these patrols to remain.
An unexplained delay caused by alleged differences between members of the ANC and the Minister of Education, as Chairperson of the National Conventional Arms Control Council, has led to the the National Conventional Arms Control Bill not being adopted by Parliament, despite it being passed by the Defence committee.
This Bill, which aims to regulate the council and to declare authorised sales of defence equipment to other countries, and despite being scheduled to be debated during the first term, no indication has yet been received as to whether it will be put to the vote in Parliament during this term, if at all. This impasse, at a time when specialised units are presently investigating the alleged involvement of Armscor and its officials in selling, illegally, missile technology to Chile, remains a mystery. [Applause.]
Mr V B NDLOVU: Sihlalo, mhlonishwa Phini likaMongameli neNdlu ehloniphekileyo, okokuqala, ngifuna ukukhuluma ngokuthengwa kwezikhali. [Chairperson, hon Deputy President and the honourable House, firstly, I want to talk about the purchasing of weapons.]
I would like to register my party’s strong reservations about the way the procurement arms deal has been dealt with, especially when it comes to the people who were mentioned as culprits relating to wrongdoings in this deal. Some are resigning and running away because they do not want to face prosecution departmentally or otherwise. My party is against the manner in which this deal was conducted, but we are supportive of acquiring arms. After 11 September nobody can blame South Africa for acquiring proper arms to protect the citizens of the country. The peace missions, the United Nations declaration of a ceasefire should be the priority in any country where we want to deploy armed forces. The Minister, together with the President, must be very careful not to play a Big Brother role to other African countries, because others would not appreciate it. Whether or not there is any need to deploy armed forces, we should do that under the auspices of the United Nations for our protection.
Any financial obligation we as a country has undertaken should be paid back. We must not become a charity organisation or a charity country. We have our own problems of massive unemployment and crime. I am referring here to the Burundi agreement where Senegal, Ghana and Nigeria have agreed that they would communicate and help us in putting arms there, which I do not think they are doing at this moment.
The end of March 2002 was the last date for dealing with the termination of the integration process. As we speak the department should be preparing to demobilise those who require the scheme. The end of December 2002 should be the last day, because this has gone on for a long time. My party has taken this position or stand because we believe that everybody should now have an equal chance or opportunity of getting into the Defence Force without favours. Everybody should qualify once and for all.
On the question of the strength of the armed forces, from ancient time to the present day the defence force vote in any country has always remained the same: it is for defending the sovereignty and territory of a country, as well as peacekeeping duties and all natural disasters. To achieve all these the Army, Air Force and the naval force should work together in close partnership. Our Defence Force must be empowered to fulfil its constitutional mandate by upholding its adequate strength and professionality. The strength of our army should take into account the socioecomic variety of South African society, as well as its position and monetary responsibility on the subcontinent of Africa.
Our portfolio committee took all these factors into account when we proposed that the total strength of our army, after the completion of our restructuring process, should be 75 000 uniformed personnel. The IFP was therefore completely taken aback to learn that the department has reduced the figure to less than 60 000 uniformed personnel. For a country of our size and potential economic growth, this is definitely unacceptable to the IFP.
On the issue of the transfer of army personnel to the SAPS, the 7 000 army soldiers that the department wants to transfer to the police must not be criminals. They should also be healthy, because the police will not accept rejects from the Army. [Laughter.] Secondly, these people must be transferred with their financial packages, in order not to upset the police budget. For the benefit of those who would be transferred, they should be shown the job description of their new department, so that they can make their own decision on the matter.
It is recommended that the Department of Defence employ young people in order to fulfil its obligations. Because of the peacekeeping phenomenon, it is proper for the Department of Defence to employ young people or young soldiers and teach them the new skills of peacekeeping and respect for individuals and the Bill of Rights.
On the question of theft and losses, the department, the Minister, the Chief of the Army and the Secretariat should make sure that they catch the criminals. It is annoying to hear the department saying that there are people who are stealing from it, but they do not know who they are. The phenomenon where people think that they can steal and get away with it should not succeed. Therefore the people who are stealing the property of the Government must be arrested, prosecuted and languish in jail for doing so.
An HON MEMBER: Why?
Mr V B NDLOVU: Because they have been stealing things … [Laughter] … that is why! The IFP will not allow the situation where people can get away with stealing Government property. Therefore, it has to stop as soon as possible.
Ngithi kumhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe kusemqoka lokhu esikushoyo ngoba uma abantu bezovuka njalo ekuseni beze emsebenzini, kuthi uma sebehamba bahambe nefosholo ngalinye, ngakusasa kube yisipedi ngolunye usuku kube yimfoloko, kuyogcina ngokuthi bantshontshe ugandaganda. [Uhleko.] Kusemqoka-ke ukuthi amasosha abone ukuthi yizwe lawo leli esikhuluma ngalo futhi yizwe lethu leli esikhuluma ngalo. Akukhona ukuhlanipha ukuthi sithi sibathembile ngokuthi kufuneka bavikele izwe lethu bona bese bebona imboni okufuneka bebe kuyo. Kungokokuqala lokho.
Okwesibili, ngithi kuNgqongqoshe kungubuhlakani ukuthi amasosha akhe amancane, lawa aqashwayo, akubone kufanele ukuthi azihloniphe. Namhlanje izingane zethu zifa zincane ngoba uma amasosha ethunyelwe ezindaweni lapho ezokuba khona kude nemindeni aye abone sengathi kufanele azichachazele, aphile noma yikanjani ngoba nakhu engamasosha. Kuyingozi lokho ngoba umuntu namhlanje kufuneka azigade yena ngoba uma ehluleka ukuzigada, siyosukuma thina lapha eNdlini sibhekise ikhanda phansi bese sithi: Makalale ngokuthula. Amen, inkosi ibusise. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)
[I would like to say to the hon Minister that this is an important issue. People will get up in the morning to go to work, and when they return home, each one of them goes home with a spade, the following day a spade and on the next day a fork. They will steal a tractor in the end. [Laughter.] It is important that soldiers should realise that this is their country that we are talking about. It is unwise that while we entrust them with the job of protecting our country, they instead see a factory from which they should steal. That is the first thing.
Secondly, I would like to say to the Minister that it is wise for his young soldiers, the ones that are being recruited, to respect themselves. Today our children are dying at an early age because when soldiers are sent to a particular place where they will be far from their families, they think that they could act anyhow, and live anyhow just because they are soldiers. That is dangerous because one should look after oneself. If one fails to do that, we will stand up in this House to bow our heads and say: Rest in peace. Amen, God bless. Applause.]]
Mna K W MORWAMOCHE: Mohlomphegi Modulasetulo le maloko ao a hlomphegago, mošomo wo mogolo wa sešole sa rena ke go šireletša naga ye le badudi ba yona, go tloga moyeng go fihla lewatleng. Sešole sa rena se thuša maphodisa go fediša bosenyi le go phethagatša molao le toka. Sešole se phethagatša Freedom Charter yeo e rego: ``Batho ba tlo buša’’. Le gaSekhukhune bošego ge gore kgwathaa, re a tseba gore ga se lenaba ke sehlotlolo. Seo ga se re gore re re go ja mpunyane re lebale go lefela motšhelo, e lego seo masole a se ganago. Demokrasi ya rena e šireletšegile ka baka la sešole sa rena sa go botega.
Nakong tša dikgetho, sešole sa rena se thuša go leta mafelo a dikgetho dinageng tša magoši, moo go se nago ditsela le maporogo. Le basepidiši ba dikgetho ge ba palelwa ke go fihlelela mafelo ao, sešole sa rena se thuša ka dinamelwa.
Kgoro ye e tseba gore feta kgomo o sware motho', ke gore Batho Pele’.
Nakong tsa mathata kgoro ye e phološa setšhaba ge se hlagetšwe ke mathata a
merwalela le mello ya hlaga. Sešole sa rena ga se thuše badudi ba Afrika-
Borwa fela, eupša le ba dinaga tša ntle ge ba hlabile mokgoši wa thusang,
ba a holega. Dinaga tša ntle ge di na le mathata a bosebaka-borena, mašole
a rena a tsena ka gare a ba namola le go ba leta go fihlela ba lokiša
mathata a bona a go baka pušo.
Sešole sa rena sa moyeng se hlahla bafofiši ba difofane ba maemo a godimo. Baotledi ba difofane tša SAA ba tsebega kudu lefaseng ka bophara ka go botega ga bona le ka mokgwa woo ba hlahlilwego ka gona ke mašole a rena a Afrika-Borwa. Kgoro ye ke yona e rwelego maikarabelo a go fofiša baetapele ba rena ge ba phethagatša mešomo ya bona dinageng tša ntle.
Kgoro ye e kgona go dumelela masole gore a tšwetše dithuto tša wona pele. Le ge go le bjalo, ke rata go botši ša Tona gore ke mokgwa ofe wo o šomišwago ge go dumelelwa mašole gore a tšwetše dithuto pele?
Le ge kgoro ye e šoma gabotse, go sa na le mafelo ao go ratago gore Tona a ke a tiiše matsogo go wona - elego mafelo a bjaloka integration, transformation le downsizing.
Gape re leboga Tona ge a fokotša mašole a 700 a a iša sephodiseng. Seo ke mohola wo mogolo gobane maphodisa ga a sa tlo thoma fase ka go hlahla mašole ao. Taba ya restructuring le yon e rata gore Tona a ke a tiiše matsogo go yona. Taba ya di-reserve force, bjaloka ge diboledi di šetš e di swaile ka ga yona, le yona e swanetše go hlokomelwa. Gape go tsomega gore go fele go e ba le ombudspersons mo dikampeng tša mašole gore di kgone go amogela dillo tša masole ka mo go swanetšego.
Gape ke rata gore Tona a ke a lebelele le taba ya special pension go mašole ao a kilego a hlankela MK le Appla ka gore bana bao ba rena ba tšwile mo ba ikgafile ba ile go lwela naga ye gore e hwetše tokologo. Empa ge bjale ba sa hwetše special pension ke bothata ka baka la gore dinyakwa tšeo di nyakwago tša gore ba swanetše go be ba rutegile, ba tla be ba rutegile neng ka ge ba be ba šireleditše naga ye?
Tona o tlo lemoga gore ga re dume go bona palo ya sešole sa rena e fokot šega ka baka la bao ba šomago diofising. Ge kgoro e re fa gore re na le mašole a 700, e se ke ya akaretša le bangwaledi bao ba lego kgorong ya Tona. A e be mašole ao a kago re phološa le go re šireletša.
Re leboga mašole a rena ge a kgona go thuša Kgoro ya tša Temo go lwantšheng le go thibeleng ga bolwetši bja tlhako-le-molomo. Gape re leboga mašole a rena ge a kgona go thuša go alafa bolwetši bja cholera nakong tša mauba. Le mabakeng a ge baoki ba ngadile mešomo, dingaka tša rena tša sešole di thuša setšhaba ka mo go kgotsofatšago.
Ka ge kgoro ye e šomela dkgoro tše dingwe, ke dira boipiletšo go Tona ya tša Matlotlo gore a ke a sekaseke taba ya go ka oketša kabo ya kgoro ye.
ANC e thekga kabo ye gore Tona a kgone go tšweleletša sešole sa difofane, sa dihelikopthara, sa go lota melaba ya dipomo le go tšweleletša tegnoloji ya tšhireletšo ya mabopo a rena.(Translation of Pedi paragraphs follows.)
[Mr K W MORWAMOCHE: Mr Chairperson and hon members of this House, the main task of our Defence Force is the protection of the country and its inhabitants, from the air to the sea. Our Defence Force assists the police force to combat crime and to fulfil the requirements of law and justice. The Defence Force fulfils the requirements of the Freedom Charter of the ANC, which stipulates that the people shall govern. Even at Sekhukhune, at night, when we hear a strange sound we know that it is not made by an enemy but by a grandchild. That does not mean that it is a free for all, and that we forget to pay our taxes, which is what the soldiers are against. Our democracy is protected due to the fact our Defence Force is loyal. During elections our Defence Force keeps watch over the voting stations in the areas that are under traditional leaders where there are no roads and bridges. When the electoral officers find it difficult to access the voting stations, our Defence Force helps them by providing transport.
This department understands the saying: ``Leave the cow and grab the person.’’ It means batho pele [people first]. During times of disaster, this department helps the people who are experiencing problems of floods and bush fires. Our Defence Force not only helps the residents of South Africa, but also the residents of neighbouring states; when they cry out for help, they get it. When the neighbouring states become embroiled in civil wars, our Defence Force mediates in order to bring peace and to monitor the peace process until it is fully established.
Our air force trains and produces pilots of a high calibre. SAAF pilots are well known throughout the world for their competence and the high quality of their training, which is provided by the South African National Defence Force. This department bears the responsibility of flying our leaders when they have commitments overseas. This department allows the soldiers to further their studies. However, I would like to know from the Minister what method is used when soldiers are permitted to further their studies.
Although this department performs well, there are areas that need the Minister’s close attention, namely areas such as integration, transformation and downsizing. We would also like to thank the Minister for redeploying 700 soldiers in the police force. This is a great advantage, because the police do not have to start from scratch when training these soldiers in police procedures. The issue of restructuring also needs the Minister’s close attention. The issue of the reserve force, as other members have already commented in this regard, also needs to be looked into. There is also a need for ombudspersons in the soldiers’ barracks to attend to the soldiers’ complaints properly.
I would also like the Minister to look into the issue of special pensions for former MK and APLA cadres because those children of ours left the country and sacrificed themselves to fight for freedom. Now, when they are denied special pensions, this creates a problem because they do not have certain educational qualifications. How are they expected to have those qualifications when they were busy fighting for this country?
The Minister will note that we do not wish to see a reduced defence force, because of those who are deployed in offices. When the department says it has 700 soldiers in a particular area, it must not include the clerks who work in the Minister’s department in that figure. It must only include the soldiers who will save and protect us.
We would like to thank our soldiers for assisting the Department of Agriculture in the fight against, and the prevention of foot-and-mouth disease. We would also like to thank our soldiers for helping to cure cholera during times of emergency. When nurses down tools, our military doctors are able to help the people admirably.
Because this department does work for other departments, I would like to appeal to the Minister of Finance to consider increasing the budget allocation of this department.
The ANC supports this Budget Vote so that the Minister may be able to develop the air force, the helicopter division, the bomb detection squad, to develop defence technology and to protect our borders.]
Al word ons Minister gehaat of al is hy tussen vyande, hy sal kan oorleef. Maar die pad wat voorlê moet altyd skoon wees. [Applous.] [Even if the Minister is hated or among enemies, he will be able to survive. But the road ahead must always be clear.] [Applause.]]
Mnr A BLAAS: Mnr die Voorsitter, die geld wat in die Weermag se begroting vir die bedryf van daarvan toegeken is, is te min. Die agb Minister mag dit nie sê nie, net so min as wat hy ‘n amptelike standpunt kan inneem oor Zimbabwe. Dit is ‘n feit en dit benadeel die paraatheid van die Weermag.
Laat my egter toe om eers ons waardering uit te spreek teenoor die personeel van die Weermag en sy geaffilieerde strukture, asook die agb Minister met die wyse waarop gepoog word om die Weermag op koers te hou binne die beperking van finansies. Ons sal egter moet besin oor hoe ons meer geld vir die funksionering van die Weermag beskikbaar kan maak.
Die opdrag aan die Weermag word afgelei uit die Grondwet en uit die strategiese beplanningsoorsig. Dit bepaal magspeile en paraatheidsvlakke. Verskeie wette, voorskrifte en ander direktiewe bepaal die werksprosedure van die Weermag. Verder is daar verskeie beleidsvoorskrifte waar ook uitvoering aan gegee moet word.
Die totale begroting het in nominale waarde sedert 1990 tot op datum seker verdubbel: van 9,9 miljard tot ongeveer 18,4 miljard. Personeeluitgawes het in nominale waardes verdubbel en styg van 19% tot 34% van die totale begroting. Die kapitaaluitgawes verhoog van 10% tot 18% van die begroting. Oor dieselfde periode het die bedryfsuitgawes in nominale waarde basies konstant gebly en daal dit van 37% tot slegs 25% van die begroting.
In reële terme beteken dit dus dat die geld wat vir die funksionering van die Weermag geoormerk is, met meer as die helfte verminder het. Personeel- en kapitaaluitgawes erodeer die bedryfskoste. Dit is kommerwekkend. Die Huis moet hiervan kennis neem en die gevolge verstaan: gevolge wat neerslag vind in die paraatheid en effektiewe funksionering van ons weermag; gevolge wat veroorsaak dat die staat finansieel skade ly; gevolge wat negatief inwerk op die motivering en moraal van die Weermag.
As daar nie indringend oplossings gevind word nie, help al die goeie werk wat tans gedoen word en die gesofistikeerde wapentuig wat ons aankoop, net mooi niks nie. Kom ons lig net ‘n paar voorbeelde uit. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr A BLAAS: Mr Chairman, the money allocated in the budget of the Defence Force for its management, is too little. The hon the Minister may not say this, just as he cannot adopt an official standpoint on Zimbabwe. This is a fact and it is to the detriment of the Defence Force.
However, allow me first to express our appreciation towards the staff of the Defence Force and its affiliated structures, as well as the hon the Minister, for the way in which they attempt to keep the Defence Force on course within its financial limitation. However, we will have to think about how we are going to make more money available for the functioning of the Defence Force.
The directive to the Defence Force is derived from the Constitution and from the strategic planning review. This determines levels of authority and levels of preparedness. Various Acts, prescriptions and other directives determine the working procedure of the Defence Force. Furthermore, there are various policy directives that must be effected. The total budget has doubled in its nominal value from 1990 to date: from 9,9 billion to approximately 18,4 billion. Personnel expenses have doubled in nominal value and increased from 19% to 34% of the total budget. Capital expenditure has increased from 10% to 18% of the budget. Over the same period operating expenditure has basically remained the same in nominal value and decreased from 37% to only 25% of the budget.
In real terms, therefore, this means that the money earmarked for the functioning of the Defence Force has been reduced by more than half. Staff and capital expenditure are eroding the operating costs. This is cause for concern. The House must take note of this and understand the consequences: consequences that manifest themselves in the preparedness and effective functioning of our Defence Force; consequences that cause the state financial damage; consequences that have a negative effect on the motivation and morale of the Defence Force.
If decisive solutions are not found, all the good work that is currently being done and the sophisticated weaponry that we are purchasing will mean absolutely nothing. Let us highlight only a few examples.]
Important aspects of policy in the White Paper on Defence of 1996 and the Defence Review of 1998 are not aligned with developments in the strategic environment and the defence funding. The present SANDF’s force design is neither affordable nor sustainable in accordance with the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework. Furthermore, the force design cannot fully meet the requirements of the strategic environment and Government-ordered defence commitments.
The availability of the reserve force as a contingent-ready force cannot be guaranteed. There is a shortage of funds for personnel and logistical requirements. The budget cuts have debilitated the conventional reserve force. The deteriorating conditions of the Department of Defence facilities is a threat to operational readiness and morale within the Department of Defence.
Dit is slegs ‘n paar voorbeelde van talle probleme wat ondervind word. Die ouditeur-generaal se verslag vir dié periode wys ook verskeie tekortkominge uit, wat die staat miljoene rande kan kos. Dit is duidelik dat die begroting onvoldoende is vir die Weermag om al sy opdragte uit te voer. ‘n Paar opsies om die probleem op te los, word voorgehou: Eerstens behoort die Minister van Finansies begrip te toon vir die spesifieke omstandighede van die Weermag. Die integrasie van die nie-statutêre magte en die rasionalisering van die Weermag is nie normale aktiwiteite nie. Geldelike voorsiening moet daarvoor gemaak word, sodat die proses afgehandel kan word en normale magspeile gehandhaaf kan word.
Die strategiese wapenaankope plaas ook uitermate hoë druk op die beskikbare fondse van die Weermag. Die Regering behoort weer na hul beleid oor betrokkenheid in Afrika te kyk. Die land kan nie alleen die verantwoordelik vir stabilisering van die gebied aanvaar nie. As daar nie ‘n wil is om interne probleme op te los nie en die verbintenisse en betrokkenheid van die rolspelers nie bestaan nie, kan die land nie onbepaald daar help nie. Daar moet weer na die Witskrif oor Verdediging en die Verdedigingsoorsig gekyk word en, indien nodig, aanpassings gemaak word. Feit is dat meer geld vir die funksionering van ons Weermag nodig is. Teen die huidige tempo gaan ons met gesofistikeerde wapens aan die een kant, generaals en ander belangrike mense aan die ander kant sit en tussen-in is niks om te verseker dat ons ‘n parate en professionele Weermag het nie. Die Regering, die Weermag en ons as Parlement en die burgers van Suid-Afrika, moet besin en herbeplan oor waarheen ons met die Weermag op pad is en wat ons van hulle verwag. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[These are only a few examples of the many problems that are being experienced. The Auditor-General’s report for this period also highlights several shortcomings which could cost the state millions of rands. It is clear that the budget is insufficient for the Defence Force to execute all of its instructions. A few options to solve this problem are to be pointed out: Firstly, the Minister of Finance should demonstrate some understanding for the specific circumstances of the Defence Force. The integration of the nonstatutory forces and the rationalisation of the Defence Force are not normal activities. Financial provision must be made in order for the process to be completed and for normal levels of authority to be maintained.
The strategic arms purchases are also placing extremely high pressure on the available funds of the Defence Force. The Government should take another look at their policy on involvement in Africa. The country cannot take sole responsibility for stabilising the area. If there is no will to solve internal problems, and if the commitment and involvement of the role- players are nonexistent, the country cannot indefinitely assist there. A fresh look should be taken at the White Paper on Defence and the Defence Review and, if necessary, adjustments should be made. The fact is that more money is necessary for the functioning of our Defence Force. At the current rate we will be sitting with sophisticated weapons on the one hand, generals and other important people on the other, and in between there will be nothing to ensure that we have a prepared and professional Defence Force. The Government, the Defence Force and we as Parliament, as well as the citizens of South Africa, must contemplate and plan anew regarding where we are heading with the Defence Force and what we expect of them. [Applause.]]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, are you getting a much better quality of sound, as I am getting here in the Chair? The technicians have had to get some maintenance work done. Are you all much happier now? [Interjections.] Thank you.
Adv Z L MADASA: Mr Chairperson, we support the Defence Force budget because we would like the Defence Force to succeed. There is no doubt that the role of our Defence Force is increased by the conflicts in the region and Nepad.
However, we would like to raise certain administrative and policy issues. Transformation and rationalisation are still problematic in the SANDF. Whilst the top echelons of the army are generally happy, there are serious problems in the rank and file. Allegations of victimisation still persist. I have personally met a young man in East London who told me that he had left the army because he would not tolerate strange methods of punishment. He told me that he was still required, when filling in a leave form, to state which force he belonged to before integration. To deal with this problem, I would therefore like to recommend the establishment of a fully fledged ombudsman’s office along the Canadian system.
On the one hand there are frustrations that transformation is slow, and on the other one there are concerns about uncertainties regarding rationalisation.
Ill discipline is still rife in the army. There is slow resolution of transformation and rationalisation issues which have precipitated ill discipline. There is a large volume of unresolved disciplinary cases. When asked about this question last year, the hon Minister stated that there was a problem in the legal department. My question today is whether the legal department is now fully organised.
There is still a problem with low morale. According to the department’s own statistics, the suicide rate, although not alarmingly high, is a permanent feature.
On the issue of future combat readiness, which is an issue that has already been mentioned here by previous speakers, there is a concern that the average age of a member of the Defence Force is 40-plus, and experts say that it is an ageing force - I do not know.
In conclusion, in support of Nepad, the department should positively initiate policy positions in the SADC region and the continent at large with regard to common defence and security policies. Increasingly countries worldwide are taking regional positions with regard to conflicts in the world. I was happy to hear the Minister mentioning that there are developments in this regard.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Chairperson, hon Deputy President, hon members, when South Africans gathered in Kliptown at the Congress of the People in 1955, they declared, and I quote:
The people shall govern. There shall be houses. The doors of learning and culture shall be opened. There shall be peace, security and comfort.
In 1996, the people spoke through their Parliament - this House. They declared, and I quote:
Defence must serve to uphold peace and security in a democratic society so as to create a stable environment for the improvement of our people’s lives and for the development and progress of our country.
They said: The SA National Defence Force shall have a primarily defensive orientation and posture and be fully subordinate and accountable to Parliament and the executive. South Africa shall pursue peaceful relations with other states.
The people declared that the preferred and primary cause of self-defence was to prevent conflict and war. That means that South Africa will turn to military means only as a last resort, when deterrence and nonviolent strategies have failed. We solemnly hope that that day will never come. They said the SA Defence Force they wanted would be integrated, transformed, representative and at peace with the world. They wanted an SANDF that understood that it had a role to play in the reconstruction and development programme, the RDP.
This is the basis on which the task of fundamentally transforming the Department of Defence has proceeded, from the understanding that defence encompasses human security, linking the needs to secure our citizens from all types of enemies, including disease, unemployment, lack of skills, unequal access to resources and poverty, with that of contributing to world peace.
Some of the guiding principles for the transformation and integration are, firstly, sound civil-military relations; secondly, Defence as the core business of the DOD, thirdly, alignment with the National Policy Framework and, fourthly, maximisation of collateral utility.
Transformation must at all times be guided by the principle of civilian oversight and scrutiny. This stresses the importance of strengthening the Defence Secretariat, as the Minister has said, so that it can perform its task. Sound civil-military relations entail also a vibrant interaction with civil society, as was demonstrated during the Defence Review process.
In the Defence Review process of 1996 a number of Defence Force design options were developed. These reflected different permutations of level of defence, defence posture and cost. Parliament and Cabinet approved option one, subject to available finances. Option one provides a core capability with growth potential.
Although this option was conceded sufficient to maintain the core defence capability, the approval did not constitute blanket approval for all implied capital projects, nor was it an immutable contract in terms of the exact numbers and types of equipment. At best, it constituted approval in principle for the maintenance of the specified capabilities at an approximate level.
This design was the basis for the development of the Strategic Defence Package which the Minister referred to in his speech. Apart from the required capabilities, the budget allocation at the time indicated a figure of 70 000 full-time Defence Force members, including civilians. This Defence Force was found to be unaffordable and unsustainable as its cost turned out to be approximately R4 100 million over the Defence budget allocation, which included the allocation for the Strategic Defence Package.
The proposed military strategy the Minister referred to attempts to find ways of achieving an affordable level of defence. Studies based on this strategy indicated a personnel component of approximately 60 000 full-time Defence Force members, including civilians, with related reductions in infrastructure, main equipment and units, the exact number and geographic distribution of which is currently under investigation.
Indications are that the Defence Force design and structure under investigation, which includes the Strategic Defence Package, will be affordable and sustainable, assuming that the Defence budget allocation will remain at its current level of 1,7% of the GDP. This structure will be able to execute all the missions and contingencies expected of the SANDF, although the reduced resource levels will influence the extent to which the missions will be executed.
The core force concept depends on the ability of the force to expand quickly should the need arise. This depends on the availability of a viable, transformed and integrated reserve force that is multiskilled and diversified at all levels. Such a reserve force has great potential to contribute to the RDP and Nepad.
However, as the hon Thandi Modise has observed, the reserve force has not been receiving the attention it deserves. In the light of the defence pact concluded in 2001 within SADC and the likely requirements once political settlements have been made in a number of sub-Saharan countries, immediate steps will be taken to address this issue. Of importance is the budgetary constraints. The Minister spoke about the difficulty or the problem of balancing our budget.
To maintain a 35% strength in the conventional reserves and an almost 75% strength in the territorial reserves, some R264 million per annum is required.
This budget should reside within the directorate of reserves, and be activity-based. The amount may appear large, but it is actually small compared to the personnel cost of the SA Army regular component, which exceeds R2,6 billion. The amount excludes operational costs, but allows for fair recruitment, training and retention of the reserves as well as the integration of ex-MK and ex-Apla members who want to serve in the reserve force.
While the core function of the department is to defend the nation against external aggression, the Department of Defence understands that it has a role in reconstruction and development. Collateral utility means peacetime utilisation of defence resources for development. It embodies the contribution of the Department of Defence to internal security, peace, stability and development.
I was impressed to learn that our general support base in Oudtshoorn has developed a good partnership with the community in a project of distributing books to disadvantaged schools. This demonstrates that the general support base has heard the President’s call to the nation to volunteer in the spirit of Letsema and Vukuzenzele. This also shows that this general support base understands its peacetime mission to be of service to our citizens.
The core force concept requires that we recruit and train young people who will be disciplined, fit and ready to defend the nation. It requires that our department selects and keeps the best cadres to fulfil the requirements for achieving a professional and well-trained SA National Defence Force.
During 2000, we commenced a process to develop a new human resource strategy aimed at ensuring the availability of the right quantity and quality. The new military skills development service aimed at rejuvenating the SANDF and implementing the Skills Development Act is part of this new human resource strategy.
This new integrated employment strategy takes into account issues of equal opportunities and affirmative action. It is critical that we hold our line managers, unit commanders and service chiefs accountable for integrating employment equity as part of the work on which their performance will be assessed.
The practice of relegating employment equity to human resource or transformation departments and advisory boards is strategically unsound, as these structures can do no more than provide line management with professional advice, which the latter may choose to ignore.
To ensure the optimal health of our members, the Department of Defence programme on combating the spread of HIV/Aids and caring for those who are affected is premised on the fundamental principle that HIV/Aids is one of many chronic, progressive and potentially life-threatening diseases. The launch of the Masibambisane Campaign, focusing on behavioural change, and targeting specifically military personnel, has added impetus to the fight against HIV/Aids.
Our department has been actively involved in developing partnerships with other state departments and the private sector to develop an effective demobilisation programme to ensure that those who are leaving the SANDF are properly equipped for civilian employment. Work sessions were held with the support of the US Department of Defence and the Department of Labour. These were the life skills development programme, held in March 2001, and the South African-US rationalisation workshop which took place from 9 to 13 July in Pretoria. Indeed, the department is looking at integrating this kind of training into daily training.
The purpose of these workshops was to establish intersectoral collaboration with relevant state departments, and to ensure that we do not throw unemployed soldiers out into the street, but help them to become self- supporting and economically active after they leave the SANDF.
The Military Veterans Advisory Board has made good progress, and is now involved in preparations for the launch of the new military veterans federation and hosting the World Veterans Federation Congress in December
- The military veterans and the Department of Defence are involved in the Freedom Park initiative which will commemorate and celebrate the history of our struggle for freedom.
We recognise that the present working conditions of soldiers, especially in the lower ranks, are far from satisfactory and we continue to search for ways to improve them. These conditions, which were designed in the previous dispensation for a conscripted army, are not congruent with the notion of a voluntary and professional national defence force.
General Nyanda has begun to explore a more appropriate package for our soldiers who have continued to serve with dedication despite the poor working conditions and the heavy challenge of the job of being a soldier. The general has also issued an instruction to all the service chiefs demanding that they demonstrate their commitment to transformation by backing their commitment with clear programmes and targets for accelerated training and fast-tracking the promotion of those who have been historically disadvantaged. We have realised that the situation in the South African Military Health Service needs to be corrected. While the membership of the SAMHS is predominantly female, its top leadership remains white and male. I hope the Sergeant-General, who is present here, will take up the challenge, when he fills the vacant post in SAMHS, to target specifically blacks and women as a corrective measure that is long overdue.
Gender transformation remains a daunting task in the Department of Defence. It entails transforming the predominantly male culture, and adopting special measures to address the obstacles and challenges women soldiers face. Despite these immense challenges, we have begun to see the results of the Department of Defence gender policies, spearheaded by the Equal Opportunities Directorate. These include policies on equal opportunities and affirmative action, sexual harassment and fast-tracking and mentorship. I am proud that some of these women are here today. I appeal to all senior officers to actively support the work of the directorate. The launch in August 2000 of the African Women’s Peace Table was acclaimed as a ground-breaking initiative. The Department of Defence hosted a conference bringing together, for the first time, women and men from the department with women and men from civil society to chart the way for peace in Africa. The African Women’s Peace Table must be strengthened.
South Africa continues to spearhead the campaign to rid our country and those of our region and continent of surplus and illegal arms. We have dismantled our military nuclear capability and converted it for non- military use. We campaigned for the banning of anti-personnel mines, and our country was amongst the first to sign the treaty banning mines, and has begun drafting enabling legislation as required by the convention.
The Freedom Charter is as alive today as it was in 1955. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek wil begin deur vir die agb Minister te sê ek wil hom enersyds komplimenteer en andersyds kritiseer. Ek wil die agb Minister gelukwens met sy uitspraak oor Zimbabwe. Ek moet eerlik vir u sê dit is die eerste keer dat ek hoor ‘n Minister het ‘n persoonlike standpunt oor ‘n internasionale saak van sy regering. Maar hy het ten minste die waarheid gepraat deur te sê dat die stille diplomasie ‘n mislukking was sover dit Zimbabwe betref. Daarmee wil ek hom gelukwens.
As ons by verdediging kom, wil ek eerstens die Minister daarop wys dat dit opgeteken is dat hy gesê het as daar lede van die Weermag is wat probleme het, moet daar onmiddellik aandag gegee word aan daardie probleme, anders raak hulle gefrustreerd en nou-nou doen hulle dinge wat hulle nie moet doen nie.
Ek wil vandag hier op rekord plaas dat ek al sedert 1997 in korrespondensie is met die kantoor van die Ministerie oor ‘n voormalige lid wat nie sy pensioen kry nie. Ek het die agb Minister verlede jaar persoonlik in Pretoria gaan sien en al wat ek op hierdie oomblik kry, is erkenning van ontvangs van skrywe. Ek wil by die agb Minister weet of hy ernstig is wanneer hy sê dat as lede probleme het, daaraan onmiddellik aandag aan gegee moet word, want hierdie saak sloer nou al vir vyf jaar.
Die agb Minister het vandag hier gesê dat 376 miljoen dollar se teenhandel reeds verkry is uit die wapenpakket. Ek is bly om dit te hoor, want dit was deel van die voorwaardes. Die tenderaars was onderworpe daaraan dat hulle 100% teenhandel met Suid-Afrika moes lewer. Maar ek wil ook van die agb Minister weet hoeveel werkgeleenthede geskep is met hierdie US $376 miljoen wat reeds in Suid-Afrika beland het. Ons kan nie die wapenpakket en die hele aangeleentheid daaromheen maar net onder die mat vee en maak asof dit nie meer bestaan nie.
In daardie wapensverslag word dit baie duidelik gestel dat, sover dit die Fet-program betref, nie een van die tenderaars voldoen het aan die minimum evalueringskriteria in terme van finansies, die Weermag se teenhandel, industriële deelname in Suid-Afrika óf die tegniese vereistes nie. Nie ‘n enkele een nie! As ons kyk na die tegniese vereistes, wat sê dit vir ons? Het ons nou ‘n minderwaardige program of produk wat ons hier vir Suid- Afrika se Vloot kom lewer? Hoe lank het die Vloot nie gewag vir nuwe produkte nie? Dit is vrae wat die publiek daarbuite ook vra en die agb Minister moet ook daarop antwoord.
‘n Lid van hierdie Huis, ‘n voormalige ANC-hoofsweep, is nou op verlof om hom voor te berei vir sy hofsaak, maar hy kry elke maand sy salaris. Die Hoof van die Weermag is ook bevoordeel met die aankoop van ‘n motor. Hoekom is hy nie ook op verlof om hom te gaan voorberei vir ‘n hofsaak nie? Of is dit ‘n geval van omdat hy die Hoof van die Weermag is, sal ons dit op ‘n ander manier hanteer? Dubbele standaarde! Vir die VF is dit nie aanvaarbaar nie. Wat goed is vir die een, is goed vir die ander.
Die agb Minister praat toe ook oor die SAOG-lande en die vredesinisiatief in Afrika. Almal is ten gunste van vrede in Afrika en dit is goed as die Suid-Afrikaanse Nasionale Weermag ook sy deel bydra. Maar die vraag wat die VF vra is: wie gaan op die ou end daarvoor betaal? Is dit die belastingbetalers van Suid-Afrika wat moet betaal? Ons sit met die probleem van die Weermag in Burundi en die Demokratiese Republiek van Kongo. Wie gaan op die ou end daarvoor betaal? Die agb Minister moet daarop ook antwoord. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Mr Chairperson, I would like to start by telling the hon the Minister that I want to compliment him on the one hand and criticise him on the other. I want to congratulate the hon the Minister on his statement on Zimbabwe. I must honestly say that this is the first time I hear a minister with a personal viewpoint regarding an international issue of his government. But at least he spoke the truth by saying that quiet diplomacy had been a failure as far as Zimbabwe was concerned. I want to congratulate him on that.
Getting to defence, I first want to point out to the Minister that he is on record as having said that if there are members of the Defence Force who are experiencing problems, these problems should be dealt with immediately, otherwise they will get frustrated and just now they will do things they should not be doing.
I want to place on record here today that I have been corresponding with the office of the Ministry since 1997 about a former member who is not receiving his pension. Last year I went to see the Minister personally in Pretoria and the only thing I have at the moment is an acknowledgement of receipt of correspondence. I want to ask the hon the Minister whether he is serious when he says that if members are experiencing problems, these should be dealt with immediately, because this matter has been dragging on for five years.
The hon the Minister has told us here today that 376 million dollars’ worth of countertrade has already been obtained from the arms package. I am glad to hear this, because that was part of the conditions. The tenderers were subject to delivery of 100% countertrade with South Africa. But I also want to know from the hon the Minister how many employment opportunities have been created with the US $376 million that has already landed in South Africa. We cannot just sweep the arms package and the whole issue around it under the carpet and act as if it no longer exists.
That arms report clearly states that, as far as the Fet programme is concerned, not one of the tenderers has met the minimum evaluation criteria in terms of finance, the Defence Force’s countertrade, industrial participation in South Africa or the technical prerequisites. Not a single one! When we consider the technical prerequisites, what does this tell us? Do we now have an inferior programme or product here that we are going to be delivering to the South African Navy? How long has the Navy not been waiting for new products? These are questions which the public out there is also asking and the Minister has to answer them too.
A member of this House, a former ANC Chief Whip, is currently on leave in order to prepare himself for his court case, but every month he receives his salary. The Chief of the Defence Force was also favoured when purchasing a motor vehicle. Why is he not also on leave to prepare himself for a court case? Or is it that, because he is the Chief of the Defence Force, we will deal with this in a different way? Double standards! This is not acceptable to the FF. What is sauce for the goose, is sauce for the gander.
The hon the Minister then also referred to the SADC countries and the peace initiative in Africa. Everyone is for peace in Africa and it is right for the South African National Defence Force to play its part. However, the question being asked by the FF is: Who is going to pay for it at the end of the day? Is it the South African taxpayer who must pay? We have this problem of the Defence Force in Burundi and the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Who is going to pay for that at the end of the day? The hon the Minister must please answer that too.]
Ms L M T XINGWANA: Mr Chairperson, hon members … andazi nokuba size kuxoxa iindaba eziphambi kwenkundla na okanye size kwenza igalelo kwingxoxo- mpikiswano ngokhuseleko kusini na. Andazi ukuba kutheni na singalindeli inkundla iqhube ngomcimbi wayo, sandule ke ngoku sithethe. [I do not know whether we have come here to discuss a trial that is in court or we have come to debate security. I do not know why we should not let the court take its course, and have a discussion afterwards.]
Since the advent of our new democratic Government in 1994, the SA National Defence Force has been transformed from a defence force that was used to kill little children in Soweto, Gugulethu and Langa, from a defence force that attacked innocent citizens, including women and children in our neighbouring states, into a Defence Force that defends and protect its citizens, that spearheads peacekeeping and peace-building in its neighbouring states and assists men, women and children during floods and other disasters.
Since 1994, the SANDF has been transformed from a predominantly male and white force, into an inclusive force that deploys women to the highest ranks. Presently, we have two generals and a number of brigadiers who are women in the Defence Force. The SANDF has to be commended in this regard since we have 20,1% representation of women throughout the Defence Force, which is far better than other countries, including the United Kingdom and the United States of America.
Kambe ke, mhlalingaphambili, akukoneli. Kusafuneka songezile. Xa ndijonga ngaphaya ngasekhohlo kum, ndifumana oomama besembalwa kakhulu, bebabini bathathu. Ngoko ke ndithi masiqinise, sibheke phambili ukumisela oomama kulo mkhosi. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[Notwithstanding that, chairperson, it is not enough. We should increase the numbers. When on my left, I find that women are still very few; you only see one or two of them. I, therefore, say that let us be strong, and move forward with the deployment of women in this force.]
We also commend the SANDF for setting up the division on affirmative action and equal opportunities. We congratulate the division on its efforts and interventions. Sifuna abanye abongezelelekileyo. [We want the numbers to increase.]
We are saying well done to Sis Jackie! We urge the Defence Force to continue with their good work and to do more.
We also commend the Defence Force for opening up opportunities for women in all arms of service, since historically women were only deployed in the so- called soft jobs such as signals, medical and administrative work.
In 1996, women in the SANDF initiated a helpline to help those women who are abused by their partners. We would like to commend this project and trust that other departments and sectors will initiate such projects so that women can be protected from battering by their own partners.
The Defence Force has a strategic role to play in bringing about peace and stability in our country and in the continent. However, in scrutinising our budget for the 2002-2003 financial year, I could not find a dedicated item for force preparation and peacekeeping. I trust that this is provided for somewhere.
I further recommend that a huge number of those who will be trained in peacekeeping would be women since, I believe, women have an important role to play in peacekeeping and peace-building. In most countries where women were excluded from peace processes, lasting peace was not attained.
It is also important, politically, to involve women in conflict resolutions and peace processes. We all know that women and children are the biggest victims of war and conflict. We trust that in the Inter-Congolese Dialogue, women’s concerns and gender will be placed on the agenda. We cannot have lasting peace in our region and continent if more than half of our population is excluded. Without women, Africa cannot be united, and Nepad cannot be fully realised.
We salute Mrs Zanele Mbeki for her role in recognising and celebrating the National Women’s Day with women in uniform on 9 August last year. We also commend her, together with the multiparty women’s caucus and the ANC Women’s League and other women’s formations for meeting women from the Congo in the Inter-Congolese Dialogue and for encouraging them to be steadfast in finding a non-military settlement in the DRC.
Challenges that still need to be addressed within the SANDF include the following: Equal rights for women in the SANDF; we as men need to put into action equal access for women to housing and medical aid for their children. This is policy. But it needs to be put into action since it has already been accepted as policy. We need to address the lack of women in the navy and the Air Force.
These are challenges that we must all address because of the legacy of our education system.
I ``Bantu Education’’ yasilimaza iminyaka engama-50 eyadlulayo. Iseza kusilimaza elinye ithuba eliyiminyaka engama-50 ukuba asisukumi ngoku sibhinqe omfutshane. Apha kumkhosi wolwandle nowomoya sifuna abantwana abenze izifundo zeMathematika, inzululwazi neBiology. Siyazi ukuba zinqabile ezi zifundo kwezethu izikolo. Ngoko ke, kubalulekile ukuba thina, singabazali, sikhuthaze ulutsha, ngakumbi amantombazana ukuba bafunde ezenzululwazi, ngakumbi imathematika nezenzululwazi. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)
[``Bantu Education’’ destroyed us for the past 50 years. We are still going to witness its disadvantages for another 50 years if we do not make a positive move.
In the South African Navy and Air Force, we want young people who have done mathematics, Science and Biology. It is a known fact that these subjects are rarely found in our schools. Therefore, it is important that we, as parents, encourage the youth, especially girls, to study the sciences and mathematics.]
There is a whole world of opportunities open for them in the Defence Force, especially in the navy and the air force.
Ngoko ke, mhlalingaphambili, masithundeze oonyana neentombi zethu ukuba bangene emkhosini, baze kuba ziipayilothi, iincutshe kwezaselwandle, kwezekhompyutha, ezenzululwazi, kwezo bugqirha njalo njalo. [We should then, Chairperson, encourage our sons and daughters to join the army so that they could become pilots, experts in the navy, in information technology, the sciences and medical related fields.]
Lastly, I would like to commend Armscor and Denel, who have initiated projects to upgrade mathematics and science for black children. Denel has targeted the weakest schools from the previously disadvantaged communities, and has provided them with teaching and learning aids, as well as resources, including food, for needy children. Armscor sponsors and mentors dropouts from previously disadvantaged communities in mathematics and science and provides jobs for them after completing their studies. We call on various companies to follow their illustrious examples, and promote mathematics and science among the previously disadvantaged communities for economic development, job creation and poverty alleviation.
Okokugqibela, ndithi, masiphakame singabazali, silulutsha sikwangabo nabahlali, sibe nebhongo, sibe neqhayiya, sizingce ngomkhosi wethu. Mazise abantu okokuba namhlanje lo mkhosi wokhuselo waseMzantsi Afrika awungomkhosi wokubulala abantu, ngumkhosi wokwakha isizwe, ngumkhosi wokwakha uluntu ngokubanzi. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[Lastly, I say that let us stand up as parents, as the youth and communities and be proud of our army. Let us tell people that the South African National Defence Force is not an army that is meant to kill people, but that it is an army that is going to build the nation. It is an army of the people. [Applause.]]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you, hon member. I believe the hon member was very good at mathematics and physical science at school and university.
Dr M S MOGOBA: Chairperson, hon Minister, the defence of a country is determined by its specific context and is dynamic in nature. Whereas the central aim and focus is defence of the country, Government and its people, the third objective stated in the strategic plan appeals to me most. It states that the key objective of the Department of Defence is and I quote:
To provide support for the population or government departments in operations other than war.
These objectives, in peacetime, should loom large and occupy a prime position in our thinking and planning. Development of this country is a form of defence. When South Africans are gainfully employed and can have food on their tables or bread in their bags, the prospect of peace becomes more realisable. We, as a country, are well known for peace and not for war. Our major export to Africa is peace, conflict resolution and mediation.
The other area of involvement by the Defence Force is in prevention of crime and economic destabilisation. Our SANDF has the necessary muscle to help in safety and security. This country, which is the nearest place on earth close to paradise, should be assisted to contain crime and enabled to develop to its full potential.
The debate on the strategic arms procurement programme continues. The acquirement of four naval corvettes, three submarines, 30 light utility helicopters, 24 trainer aircraft and 28 fighter aircraft at an initial cost of about R30 billion and increasing to about R50 billion in the 12-year period, is a millstone around our necks. This is water which is fast flowing understream. We now want to see justification for this major expenditure. For this new equipment to lie in the army stores until it becomes obsolete would be a double tragedy. High involvement by the army in development might be the only way in which the blow can be softened.
The reported case of the release of MK prisoners with a handful of Apla forces is in line with the repeated calls made by us over the years. Our only main concern is those who have been left languishing in prison and we demand their immediate release. Apartheid was declared a crime against humanity. Those who were involved in fighting apartheid cannot justifiably be punished by a new democratic government. We need to have a clean slate which separates the different eras.
Just this past weekend, I joined a group of ex-Robben Islanders and ex- stone quarry graduates and we revived memories of inhuman suffering inflicted on us during those dark days. It is inconsiderable that many people are still in prison today. Let me remark pointedly that the government of the USA, which regards ex-fighters of apartheid as criminals, is guilty of a grotesque and unforgivable sin. [Time expired.]
Mr R JANKIELSOHN: Chairperson, Minister and hon members, these are challenging times for South Africa. Faced with growing unemployment, poverty and an HIV/Aids crisis, we still have to maintain a viable Defence Force. In the budget, a balance has to be maintained between expenditure on personnel, acquisitions and training in order to maintain the operational readiness of the force.
While the balance within the department is important, the prioritising of our spending in order to improve the quality of lives of average South Africans is more important. The most prominent issue that dominated public debate around defence spending over the past two years has been the acquisition of the strategic defence packages. These packages have been controversial since they were announced, for the following reasons. Firstly, from the outset, allegations of corruption and irregularities were part of the process. Secondly, a review of the Defence Review is imminent. The whole acquisition process was based on a Defence Review that does not take into account the changing role of the SANDF, in terms of international obligations, and therefore does not meet the future needs of the SANDF. In fact, I doubt, in the end, whether the SANDF has the capacity or resources to utilise the new equipment optimally since it is struggling to do so with its current equipment.
Thirdly, and most importantly, is the fluctuation of the final price. The DA will not support an acquisition process with no fixed price tag. [Interjections.] Repeated calls to the Government to cut its losses by cancelling the second and third tranches of the so-called arms deal have fallen on deaf ears. [Interjections.] This could have saved the country R18 billion, which could rather have been used for one of the following: over 1 million houses to assist with the approximately 7 million unit backlog; a basic support grant for 2 million children at current levels of R130 per month for six years; it could pay the salaries of almost 50 000 police constables for the next 10 years; it could have put one million children through school for the next six years; or it could have funded the national budget allocation for textbooks and stationery supplies at current levels for the next 20 years.
We, as public representatives, have to take responsibility for our actions. In rural South Africa, such as Qwaqwa, food insecurity is 75%. Spending over R52 billion on arms when faced with pressing socioeconomic needs is almost criminal. The DA will not be party to that.
In closing, we would like to thank the members of the department who brief us on our activities and assist us with our work as legislators. Their assistance is greatly appreciated. [Applause.]
Mr R J B MOHLALA: Mohlomphegi Moswaramarapo, Tona, ba mphato bao re šomago mmogo, tate o kile a re ka mohla wo mongwe a ntaya are:
Kgabela Mokone morw’a Matsabatse, kgabela motho ka selepe, go hlwa go bolela go tla le go tsoša ditshele, tshele ga e age motse.
Ka fao, ke tlile go tlogela tshele, ra tšwela pele ra rutana nnete. (Translation of Pedi paragraph follows.)
[Mr R J B MOHLALA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, my father once advised me as follows:
Take an axe, Mokone, son of Matsabatse, and chop up somebody because too much talk leads to more complaints and complaints do not build a home.
Therefore, I am going to stop complaining so that we may go ahead and teach one another the truth.]
The imperatives of today’s debate are that, as a responsible Government that has been elected by the majority of the people, we owe those who elected us some answers to the questions that are always flighted before us by the opposition. They and they only are entitled to answers. We need to pose questions such as: Why is South Africa spending money on the strategic defence packages where there is no imminent and immediate external threat and aggression? What is the Government buying? Does the equipment satisfy defence needs? Do these packages have to cost what we are paying? Could they not have been cheaper?
Those are the questions but before we answer them, we need to accept that the money that has been spent is a lot of money. Billions are a lot of money. It is important that we should spend those billions so that we are in position to defend not only our country but even those of our neighbours.
The decision taken to procure these arms was taken after a very elaborate exercise that included the involvement of communities and, of course, all the political parties - unless if people want to say to us that if one parliament takes a decision, that decision is not binding on the next parliament. After a thorough consultation with all stakeholders and role- players, this very Parliament then took a decision to go ahead with the procurement.
The decision was guided by the intention to develop long-term strategy alliance with South Africa’s major trading partners. Therefore, there is no question of whether they could have been bought somewhere at a cheaper price, hence we talk of a strategic package.
The packages have in them the component of offsets. But this is not the primary issue. The primary issue is defence. It is a component that is practised by almost all developed countries such as Finland, Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, etc. In actual fact, other countries such as Canada and Australia require offsets for any government purchase from abroad, not only arms. I guess what we are saying here is that there is no way that we as a country, can be discredited by this deal. It was done to develop long- term alliances with internationally successful defence equipment groups, not only for the South African defence industry, but also for the whole international global economic market.
We are always told how we do not need to purchase arms when the country is not facing imminent and immediate danger. But how do we know when we would be facing imminent danger? Are we prophets? Do we still have credible prophets? If we do, I will listen to them and not listen to the wishy-washy fallacies that we got here today.
In the first instance, it takes a long time to rebuild armed forces once they have been allowed to run down. The most cost-effective way to maintain defence capability is to maintain a steady rate of equipment acquisition and replacement, not the boom-bust of the previous years. As a result thereof, the defence force was more equipped in the past to concentrate on land watch, because of the battle called swartgevaar. And that time past. They had rifles, tanks, trucks, etc. But if we look at the type of submarines that are available to us today, some of them are as old as 30 if not 50 years, and this is really unacceptable. We should not forget that, among other things, this country used to be isolated by the international community and as such there were sanctions against it. Even if they wanted to buy arms, no one was prepared to sell to them.
This Government brought with it pride to the people of South Africa by gaining the confidence of the international community. By the way, no one will sell arms to anyone if they think that person is irresponsible. The fact that there are people who are prepared to sell arms to us means that people realise that we are a responsible government, and that is imperative.
It should also be remembered that quite recently, we had two full-scale civil wars within our neighbouring countries, but fortunately, as the Minister has already indicated, there is a bit of stability in Angola and the DRC. If we did not have the muscle to defend our neighbours, would we be in Burundi and the DRC? No, we would be sitting here not knowing what to do. The people who are against this are actually saying to us that we do not need an army that is combat ready. I do not think that South Africa wants to be in that position.
There are other threats in that there is a growing paramilitary problem in Africa, cross-border banditry and coastal piracy, all of which affect the region’s ability to develop its economies and to attract the needed investment.
South Africa does not exist as an island. It is part of a global community and as such it must be able to assist friends affected by those problems. It should also be able to take part in the peace support operations like it is doing in the DRC to satisfy its peacekeeping obligations.
Allow me to indicate something. In one of our visits to the reservists in the Eastern Cape, we were ferried from a helicopter in a bus which had clocked 750 000 kilometres on its odometer. One can imagine how long that thing had been travelling. Other things include the question of uniforms, etc. What I am saying is that we should always remember that though we are now talking about this package, it might not be our last one. There are other gaps that need to be filled, like airlifts and maritime. We need to fill those gaps if we want to remain a responsible Government.
They say we must cancel the second and the third purchases, arguing that the money saved as a result of the interest would be enough to finance a million income grants. But what they fail to tell us is that there are 13 million people who need income grants. So if we save money to finance 1 million people who is going to finance the other 12 million? That is the question that needs to be answered.
Allow me, by way of conclusion, to say that the equipment that we are buying is not as costly as they would like us to believe. I will give an example. We are paying a market-related price. Four corvettes will cost South Africa less than India has recently paid for a single Godavari class frigate. We are paying less per ship than the small Lekiui class recently acquired by Malaysia. The Gripen will cost substantially less than the United Arab Emirates is paying for F-16s and the hawks will cost less than Canada paid for its hawks.
Ge re feditše go ba fa thuto ye, re swanetše gore re tsebe gore moyamolomong wa tau o ya a swere serumula. O se ke wa re ge o fetša go ngwaya nkwe mokokotlo, e re ge nkwe masasane e go gomarela e leka go go ngwapa wa makala ka gore o tlo be o se wa ihlama. Ka mantšu a mangwe ke re ge re re molete sekuba re feleletša re re o se ke wa bina ka lerageng wa nagana gore, tlo thunya lerole. [Legofsi.] (Translation of Pedi paragraph follows.)
[After this submission, we need to know that we have to arm ourselves. You must not scratch a tiger’s back and then, when it attacks you and tries to scratch you, be surprised, because you are not armed. In other words, what I am saying is, one should not dance in the mud and expect dust to ensue from it. [Applause.]]
Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, the safety of our country rests in this department. The MF is, however, confident in the operation of the department and is impressed by its hard work, dedication and determination.
It should be taken into consideration that the department’s role does not stop at providing defence, as its title suggests. It also exists as an instrument for building better external relations in many of our neighbouring countries.
The MF is reassured by the department’s aims, which are to defend and protect South Africa, its territorial activity and its people in accordance with our Constitution and international law, which regulates the use of the force. This clearly exhibits the department’s zest, nationally and internationally, as a domestic and a global force.
The Department of Defence has numerous contributions to make to the development of society. It knowledgeably inculcates a recruitment programme. Noting the escalating unemployment rate, this would certainly assist in reducing it. The outrageous crime rate may also be reduced by recruiting persons into this disciplined field.
The MF salutes the faceless persons that serve in this department, who make sacrifices in their dedication to serve this nation with their lives. Programmes to be instituted by the department appear well revised and are important in providing proper defence to the nation.
The MF supports the programmes and finds the allocated budget sufficient to do so. The building of better relations globally is important and the importance of defence to our people is as important as defence to all humanity. Globally, we witness the killing of so many innocent victims. Some of it is inflicted by governments on their own people. We have been there too.
Today, we shed tears at the hard past, but we smile at knowing today that we are safe as we stand here. Our people’s Government serves to protect and our Department of Defence strives to protect it.
In salute to the hon the Minister and his department, the MF supports this Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Mnr C AUCAMP: Mev die Speaker, vergun my om van hierdie geleentheid misbruik te maak om die Minister geluk te wens met sy eerlike en belangwekkende erkenning, naamlik dat die beleid van die SA Regering jeens mnr Mugabe van Zimbabwe misluk het. Die belang van so ‘n erkenning is dat dit die weg moet baan vir veranderde optrede, en die AEB wag in spanning daarop, meer spesifiek met betrekking tot die begrotingspos van verdediging.
Die sleutel tot ‘n suksesvolle Weermag is die dissipline van sy soldate. Studies het duidelik getoon dat dissipline nie net van buite af afgedwing kan word nie, maar afhanklik is van lojaliteit. Lojaliteit in die Weermag is op sy beurt afhanklik van ‘n gelukkige soldatekorps. In dié verband is dit verontrustend dat die grootste vakunie in die Weermag, die SA Nasionale Weermag-unie, wat met sy 21 000 lede ‘n derde van alle soldate, asook die volle sosiale en kulturele spektrum, van die soldatekorps verteenwoordig, ernstige probleme in die Weermag ondervind, en dat hulle blykbaar voor geslote deure te staan kom wanneer hulle hierdie probleme op wettige wyse onder die aandag van die Minister wil bring. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, allow me to take advantage of this opportunity to congratulate the Minister with his honest and interesting admission, namely that the policy of the South African Government towards Mr Mugabe of Zimbabwe has failed. The importance of such an admission is that it should pave the way for transformative action, and the AEB is waiting anxiously for this, more specifically with regards to the Budget Vote on Defence.
The key to a successful Defence Force is the discipline of its soldiers. Studies have clearly shown that discipline cannot only be forced down from the outside, but is dependent upon loyalty. Loyalty in the Defence Force is in turn dependent on a happy soldiers corps. In this regard it is disturbing that the biggest trade union in the Defence Force, the SA National Defence Union, with its 21 000 members, which represents a third of all soldiers, as well as the entire social and cultural spectrum of the soldiers corps, is experiencing serious problems in the Defence Force, and that they apparently come up against closed doors when they try and bring these problems under the Minister’s attention in a legal manner.]
Earlier this year, the union had to declare that -
… a constant deterioration in all fields of labour relations, characterises the SANDF.
This consequently led to a memorandum saying ``enough is enough’’.
A few of the problems stated in the memorandum are undue interference in the professional responsibilities of the Chief of the SANDF; lack of compensation for overtime work; lack of transparency regarding the restructuring of the Defence Force, resulting in personnel not being able to plan their military career; the plan to retrench all members older than 30 years who have not yet achieved the rank of corporal while there is a bottleneck due to a lack of promotion courses; the limitation of maternity leave to two confinements only; and the abnormally high ratio of generals per capita - one general for every 250 soldiers, while the salary of one general absorbs that of 13 troops. Furthermore, they have serious grievances about staff placement policy, remunerative aspects, promotions and performance awards.
Dit is nie vir die AEB, of selfs hierdie Huis, om kant te kies in ‘n arbeidsgeskil nie. Wat egter verontrustend is, is dat die kanale waarlangs die soldate van Suid-Afrika vir hulle regte kan beding in werklikheid toegestop blyk te wees. My inligting is dat die Minister opdrag gegee het dat die werkgewers se verteenwoordigers op die Militêre Bedingingsraad vanaf September 2001 moet onttrek van onderhandelings met die georganiseerde werknemers. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[It is not the task of the AEB, or even this House, to take sides in this labour dispute. What is, however, disquieting is that the channels through which the soldiers of South Africa can negotiate for their rights seems to have been blocked in reality. My information is that the Minister gave the instruction that the workers’ representatives on the Military Bargaining Council should withdraw from negotiations with organised employers with effect from September 2001.]
Furthermore, the Military Arbitration Board has not yet convened, whilst it should have been in place since August 1999.
Daar mag verskeie redes wees vir hierdie dooie punte en doodloopstrate. Blaam kan oor en weer geslinger word. Feit is, dit is ‘n uiters onbevredigende situasie. Die AEB versoek die volgende: dat die menslike hulpbronne departement van die weermag dringend hersien en herstruktureer moet word om effektief te funksioneer, dat die grondwetlike vereistes van deursigtigheid en administratiewe geregtigheid altyd nagekom word, dat die Militêre Bedingingsraad sy werksaamhede onverwyld hervat en dat die Arbitrasie Raad dringend byeen geroep word.
Ek dra vandag hierdie baadjie met trots: 1 SDB'' -One Special Service
Battalion’’. Die agb Brig Genl Schalkwyk weet wat hierdie drie proteas vir
‘n lojale pantserman beteken. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Die uitdagings vir vandag se Weermag is dalk veel meer gekompliseerd as in my tyd. Daar is die inkorporering van verskillende magte van die verlede en die saamvoeg van vroeër teenoorstaande lojaliteite van dikwels uiteenlopende kulture. Ons mag nie toelaat dat hierdie uitdagings bederf word deur ‘n gebrek aan die gewoon basiese vereistes wat noodsaaklik is vir ‘n toegewyde, lojale en gedissiplineerde soldatekorps nie. Dit is so noodsaaklik vir die veiligheid en die integriteit van Suid-Afrika. [Tussenwerpsels.] [Gelag.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[There might be various reasons for these stalemates and impasses. Blame may be flung back and forth. The fact remains that this is an extremely unsatisfactory situation. The AEB requests the following: that the human resources department of the Defence Force be reviewed and restructured immediately in order to function effectively, that the constitutional requirements of transparency and administrative justice always be complied with, that the Military Bargaining Council resume its activities without delay and that the Arbitration Board be convened urgently.
Today I am wearing this jacket with pride: 1 SDB'':One Special Service
Battalion’’. The hon Brig Gen Schalkwyk knows what these three proteas mean
to a loyal member of the armoured corps. [Interjections.]
The challenges for the Defence Force of today are perhaps much more complicated than it was in my time. There is the incorporation of different forces of the past and the joining of previously opposite loyalties of often divergent cultures. We should not allow these challenges to be spoilt by a lack of the common, basic requirements which are necessary for a dedicated, loyal and disciplined soldiers corps. This is so essential for the safety and the integrity of South Africa. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]]
Mr D M DLALI: Madam Speaker, the most significant strategic development over the past few years is South Africa’s new status in Southern Africa.
Previously an arena of intense conflict, with the election of a democratic Government in April 1994, relations with neighbouring states changed from suspicion and animosity to friendship and co-operation.
For politically strategic and geographic reasons, the South African Government regards security and defence co-operation in Southern Africa as a priority. We have before us a budget that takes account of the reality of Africa today, an Africa plagued by poverty and strife, but an Africa on the brink of a rebirth, an Africa preparing itself to take its proper place in the international arena.
Since the end of the Cold War, the region has undergone substantial change. Considerable progress has been made towards the resolution, the establishment of democracy and disarmament. The prospects for regional peace and stability are greater today than at any other time in recent decades. Much of the subcontinent, and maybe the continent, is stricken by underdevelopment and problems of poverty, illiteracy and unemployment.
Certain states on the subcontinent and the continent remain politically volatile. This needs our co-operation and assistance in order for Nepad to work and the world to take Africa seriously as a continent. This is why we need to deploy our troops, if necessary, within the region and the continent as a whole in pursuit of peacekeeping.
These conflicts, if not resolved, impact negatively on neighbouring states in the form of a range of non-military threats. These include the spread of disease, large numbers of refugees and displaced people, and cross-border trafficking in drugs, stolen goods and small arms.
These issues need our co-operation as a country and nobody should be opposed to the South African Government playing a meaningful role in seeking solutions and resolutions. This could include the deployment of our troops whenever it is necessary abroad. Our country is committed to the development of a common security approach in Southern Africa. This will entail the SADC states shaping their political security and defence policies in co-operations with each other.
The Government may be called on by neighbouring states to play a number of supportive roles. The SANDF could provide assistance in many ways, like controlling cross-border trafficking in small arms, training, education and upgrading of weaponry and equipment.
The President, in his state of the nation address this year in February, said:
During the course of last year our commitment to Africa’s progress also found expression in the deployment of our sons and daughters in uniform in Ethiopia, the Democratic Republic of the Congo and Burundi. We did so, because we remain confident that our sister peoples in these countries will find solutions to their problems. The role that is played by the President in the region, the subcontinent and the continent should be supported by the whole nation, including the opposition parties, to ensure that there is peace and friendship on this continent of ours, Africa, and for Nepad to work and ensure the success of the African Union.
There is a notion or perception which says: ``We need bread instead of guns.’’ I want to deal with this perception in the following manner. We have to defend our revolution. We are not ashamed of that. We fought for this country with the assistance of our comrades on the continent, particularly the subcontinent countries like Angola, Tanzania, Zimbabwe, Lesotho and others. Our comrades died in action. We have to remember the fallen comrades of our movement who died in action by not letting them down and by defending our revolution.
The deployment of our troops in the DRC and Burundi should be seen in the context of our international obligation for peace and friendship. All South Africans should be behind our brothers and sons, sisters and daughters in uniform who are representing our country and keeping South Africa’s flag flying high wherever they are.
We should be proud of our troops. The SANDF must maintain the capability to prepare its forces on a continuous basis for the self-defence function, and must also maintain effective support capabilities.
The two specific challenges we face are to work with the rest of our continent to ensure the success of the African Union and Nepad, the New Partnership for Africa’s Development. Thus the vision of African patriots will be realised, that of regeneration of Africa and the birth of the new civilisation.
Peace and friendship among the peoples also require that we work to end Africa’s marginalisation in world affairs. This can only happen if we first tackle the challenges faced by the African Union and Nepad purposefully and successfully. Therefore, whatever money this Government spends on the development of our troops on the subcontinent or continent, it should be seen in the context of our obligation to promote peace, stability and friendship on the continent. There shall be peace and friendship in Africa.
The Department of Defence also raised, in one of the outputs on defence, the matter of Defence Force health capabilities. We also call upon the department to make sure that they combat Aids within the Defence Force, and also embark on a programme set by the Government in terms of points A, B and C. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I call upon the hon Schalkwyk to address the House. [Interjections.]
Brig Gen P J SCHALKWYK: Madam Speaker …
An HON MEMBER: Mooi praat, brigadier! [Speak nicely, Brigadier!]
Brig Gen P J SCHALKWYK: Ek sal probeer. [I will try.]
Madam Speaker, hon Minister, hon members, I will focus on the problems of our reserve ground force. I heard the Deputy Minister, as well as the hon Thandi Modise mention that. I will try and expand on that.
We all know that our National Defence Force does not belong to the Government or the Minister as such, it belongs to the people. And we must inform the people about what is going on. We have excellent military publications, but I wonder if they present the whole truth.
In the early 1960s the then Department of Defence tried to disband the so- called traditional units, but our local communities were proverbially up in arms about that. It was a tragic period in the history of the army’s reserve force. Some of those units were down to company, squadron and battery levels. Moral and unit esprit de corps was destroyed, and it took the army over a decade to bring it back to combat effectiveness.
The publication on the SA National Defence Force’s reserve force is very impressive. It is a beautiful document with its order of battle, but it does not tell the real story. Most of these units are kept going by a number of dedicated old-timers. What our people must know is how many bayonets these listed battalions can field. The same applies to how many qualified gun crews, with their guns, there are in the artillery regiments, and how many tanks and armoured car crews with their AVs, armoured fighting vehicles, we can muster. The same applies in respect of our air forces.
Recently emphasis has been placed on the strategic arms acquisition, to the detriment of the ground forces’ capabilities. We must not make the same mistakes the government of the early 1960s made. We must learn from that history. But I have the impression that the reserve forces are being strangled to death because of the lack of support. This past year courses had to be cancelled owing to a lack of funds, and no substantial conventional field exercises have taken place over the past few years. This has an impact on our effectiveness and the integration process.
I know of the existence of the reserve forces’ council and Dr Williams’ research on transformation, but the scoreboard still remains the same. We must wake up to the reality of the situation before it is too late. The longer we wait, the more serious the problem becomes.
We have to lift the army’s reserves up from its knees. Morale is progressively deteriorating by the day, and this must be stopped. Unit esprit de corps must be revitalised. We owe this to the reserve forces and to our people. [Applause.]
Mr G C OOSTHUIZEN: Madam Speaker, Comrade Minister, … lehono ke tlogo buwa ka puo yame le Seisemane … [today I will speak in my mother tongue and English.]
On behalf of the committee, I would like to thank our outgoing chairperson of the Joint Standing Committee on Defence, Ntshiki Mashimbye, for the excellent work done. We want to congratulate hon member Zoe Kota and hon James Ngculu, who have been appointed Chairpersons of the Portfolio Committees on Housing and Health respectively. We shall miss them in the committee and we wish them well.
I have listened to the DA when they addressed this House this afternoon, and two of their speakers emphasised the strategic defence packages. The predecessor of the DA, the DP, was soft on security. It seems to me that the DA is even softer on security. [Interjections.]
The hon Schmidt referred to the strategic defence packages. I think, and I suspect that it was his master’s voice speaking, in the committee and during the deliberations we had in December, he could not make decisions on his own, he had to consult the hon Taljaard. And what happened in that committee is that we confused him with facts. He could not make up his own mind, it was made up for him. [Interjections.]
Today he is questioning the matter of the price. The end result of that was that he did not attend the meetings. He boycotted the proceedings and the DA, the then DP, soft on security, walked out of the committee. They gave themselves the right to give input to the recommendations that very committee made to Parliament. Our hon Minister said today that their input would be entertained and taken on board.
May I just say on this whole issue of the price - and I direct this to hon Schmidt - we cannot pin down the exchange rate. But our offer to him is that I will give him a free lesson on the economy and the exchange rate. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Boycott politics has always been counterproductive. In fact, we have heard this afternoon that, halfway through the strategic defence packages, we should now halt and stop. [Interjections.] God forbid I go to war with them, because they will run away before the war starts. [Laughter.] The DA was born a tickey, and if one was born a tickey, one can never become a sixpence. [Laughter.] The hon Groenewald also deprived himself …
… van die reg op deelname. Die agb lid het die eerste dag daar ingestap en die eerste geleentheid gebruik wat hy kon kry om hom te vervies, kamtig die stoel agtertoe te skop en te loop en gaan vakansie hou. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is wat die agb lid gedoen het. Nou kom kla hy vandag hier omdat hy vertoë rig oor ‘n pensioen-uitbetaling. Mag ek hom daaraan herinner, as hy miskien meer komiteevergaderings bywoon, en minder boikot en vakansie hou, sal hy miskien meer sukses hê, want wat is die waarheid? [Tussenwerpsels.]
Hy vra vandag hier die agb Minister uit oor die finansiering met betrekking tot Burundi. As hy verlede week hierdie dames en here wat agter ons sit se voorligting oor die begroting bygewoon het, het hy daardie antwoord gehad. Of het hy miskien gesit en slaap in daardie verrigtings? [Gelag.] Die Europese Unie dra ruim by en so kan ons voortgaan. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[… of the right to participate. The hon member walked in there the first day and took the first opportunity he could find to lose his temper, make a show of kicking over the chair and leave, go on holiday. [Interjections.] That is what the hon member did. Now he is complaining here today because he has made representations in regard to a pension payout. May I remind him, if he perhaps attended more committee meetings, and boycotted less and went on fewer holidays, he would perhaps achieve greater success, because what is the truth? [Interjections.]
He is questioning the hon Minister today about the funding with regard to Burundi. If he attended the briefing by these ladies and gentlemen who are seated behind us about the budget, he would have had that answer. Or was he perhaps sitting there, sleeping, during those proceedings? [Laughter.] The European Union contributes generously and in that vein we can continue.]
The Department of Defence is on the threshold of a new era in Africa. The SA National Defence Force is and will remain an invaluable instrument of the state, contributing to the achievement of this ANC-led Government’s domestic and foreign policy objectives. By virtue of the force’s design, agreed upon in the White Paper on Defence, it will be a lean and mean machine, helping to ensure the safety, security and wellbeing of South Africa and the entire region, and, when called upon, of the international community.
The vision, as stated in the Strategic Plan for the financial years 2002-03 to 2004-05, is as follows, and I quote:
The Department of Defence ensures, in accordance with the Constitution, effective defence for a democratic South Africa, enhancing national, regional and global security through balanced, modern, affordable and technological defence capabilities.
Mr M J ELLIS: [Inaudible.]
Mr G C OOSTHUIZEN: The hon Ellis should listen to this and he may learn something. But we do not want him in the ANC, please! [Laughter.]
Modern communications such as the Internet, cross-border information traffic and the easy movement of information have resulted in the eroding of national boundaries. The effect is that crime and terrorism have become globalised. This has forced security agencies to co-operate beyond national borders with their counterparts worldwide. Africa will be no exception to the fact that peaceful coexistence is a matter of prime importance for development and prosperity.
As Nepad takes shape, security on the African continent is becoming increasingly important, to ensure that we meet its objectives. It is in this regard that the SA National Defence Force must fulfil the role of peacekeeper and peace supporter. Our force design will have to be revolutionary, progressive and realistic in order to assist wider Government decision-making.
The SA National Defence Force would have to answer the call of regional and international duty; we will have to respond to the call of international and regional peace-making, peacekeeping and peace-building. This we are already doing with distinction, and I wish to congratulate the hon the Minister and the Defence Force on the leadership they are providing in this regard.
Liberty, law and opportunity are some of the conditions for development. This is why the success of Nepad will promote economic growth and sustainable economic development in an environment of democracy, peace and stability. South Africa is adequately equipped to play its role in this regard. I say this because it is in South Africa where a conflict environment has been replaced by a negotiated settlement. This is where the role of the Defence Force and the force design have been altered, with global emphasis on peace negotiations rather than outright wars, and that may be good news for the DA.
I would like to answer something that the hon Blaas touched upon in this debate.
Mr T D LEE: Are you the Minister now?
Mr G C OOSTHUIZEN: No, I am not the Minister, I am an hon member! The difference between the hon Lee and myself is I have no price tag, but he has one. We know that. [Laughter.] [Applause.] [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order!
Mr T D LEE: Madam Speaker, is that member prepared to take a question?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are you prepared to take a question, hon member?
Mr G C OOSTHUIZEN: Madam Speaker, if I have time at the end of my speech I would entertain intelligent questions! [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Mr K M ANDREW: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: The hon member Oosthuizen’s comment that a member had a price tag is clearly a reflection on the integrity of the member. [Interjections.] It is unparliamentary and I request you to ask him to withdraw it.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, I would have to consider that issue. I am not sure that it is necessarily unparliamentary. I would have to consider that and then come back with a ruling.
Mr G C OOSTHUIZEN: Madam Speaker, it is against this background that our presence in the DRC conference at Sun City and our peacekeeping forces in Burundi should be judged. In fact, what matters is strategic success for our continent. Measure us by the results achieved, rather than the amount of money we budget for these operations. The New Partnership for Africa’s Development plan has its focus on Africa taking responsibility for its own security problems. It implies that intervention will only be in partnership with other countries and will be a peace-supporting role and not the apartheid-type raid on neighbouring countries. This emphasises the importance of combined operations by African countries for Africa.
Despite moves towards peace in our region and continent, it would be wise and advisable to plan and budget for more frequent and longer peace support missions. The force design must include our intelligence ability to improve the early warning systems. The nature of our intelligence should not only be complementary to other sources, but should also support the strategy aimed at rooting out warlords who lead bandit-type forces on our continent. Sometimes those forces are armed with guns and rocket-propelled grenades. In short, the defence intelligence division must provide for intelligence collection and holistic assessments which would assist wider Government decision-making.
The DA’s Mr Jankielsohn today said we had to revise our strategic plan on defence. We have an agreed force design as reflected in the White Paper on Defence. The strategic plan for the financial years 2002-03 to 2004-05 states, and I quote:
In response to changes in the environment the present approved force design is currently under review.
So I refer the hon Jankielsohn to the strategic plan for those very financial years. He may be enlightened if he read that. Mindful of this statement, I ask whether the light mobility will form part of the new force design and the new structure. Should this be the case, the emphasis should be on light mobile strategy, enabling South Africa to deploy military power by air. Implicit is the ability we have in terms of transport aircraft, which should be under review if this is the route we go. Equally, so should be the consideration of the anti-tank missile system for use in airborne operations. Our planning should also include the upkeep and constant upgrading of our heavy ground weapon systems, which must be maintained.
The SA National Defence Force should also confront the major human resources challenges it has. The profile, the age and the fitness of personnel must be a source of strategic planning sessions where the emphasis should be on overcoming the lack of skills development and the constraints of recruitment. The evaluation of personnel and the strategies embarked upon should be mindful that South Africa is a regional power and therefore viable strategies should make provision for the overall composition of the South African forces.
In the last minute or two at my disposal I would like to turn to mobilisation.
Ons het verlede jaar voorligting deur die kommando’s by die Gesamentlike Komitee oor Verdediging gehad, getuienis aangehoor oor die tekort aan ervare leierskap en derhalwe addisionele fondse benodig om lede op te lei. Die demobilisasie bied aan die kommando’s ‘n geleentheid om reeds goedopgeleide leiers te werf en op dié wyse waarskynlik in hul behoefte aan leierskap te voorsien. My versoek aan die kommando’s daar buite is: Gryp hierdie geleentheid aan. Verryk die geledere van die kommando’s met leierskap wat daartoe sal bydra dat die negatiewe beeld van die kommando’s omgekeer kan word en dit in ‘n positiewe stap voorwaarts die toekoms in kan wees. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Last year, we had a briefing by the commandos at the meeting of the Joint Committee on Defence, we heard evidence about the shortage of experienced leadership and that consequently additional funds are needed in order to train members. Demobilisation is giving commandos an opportunity to recruit already well-trained leaders and in this way probably provide in their leadership requirements. My request to commandos out there is: Grab this opportunity. Enrich the rank and file of the commandos with leadership that will contribute to reversing the negative image of the commandos and that it may be a positive step forward into the future.]
In conclusion, I also urge those members who are being demobilised to take up their role in the communities, being ever mindful of the code of a soldier and that that code is to serve with honesty and integrity. Their contribution in the community, if they are demobilised in the reserve force of the commando, would be invaluable to this wonderful country, South Africa. I trust that they will take up this challenge to serve and to create a better life for all. [Applause.]
Mr L T LANDERS: Madam Speaker, before you recognise the hon the Minister, may I raise a point of order?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! What is the point of order, hon member?
Mr L T LANDERS: During Mr Oosthuizen’s address, the hon Groenewald was
heard by way of an interjection to use the words die baas se hond'' or
die baas se honde’. I submit to you that this is unparliamentary, but I
ask for your ruling in this regard.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Just say that again. What did he say? What was the word? Hon Groenewald, would you like to …
Mr L T LANDERS: He said: ``Die baas se honde.’’
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Would you like to address the House, hon Groenewald?
Mr P J GROENEWALD: Mev die Speaker, die agb lid is verkeerd. Ek het nooit
gepraat van die baas se honde'' nie. Ek het gesê:Oubaas se honne.’’ En
ek staan daarby. [Madam Speaker, the hon member is wrong. I never spoke
about baas se honde'' [the dogs of the boss]. I said" Oubaas se
honne.’’ [the master’s little dog].
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Groenewald, I did not hear your explanation. I am sorry.
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Mev die Speaker, toe die agb lid Oosthuizen gepraat het, het hy onder andere ook na my verwys. Toe het ek gesê: ``Oubaas se honne.’’ Wat dit beteken, is dat hy soos ‘n hondjie is. As die baas praat, dan lê hy op sy ruggie en doen net wat die baas sê hy moet doen. Dit is wat die agb Oosthuizen is. Hy is oubaas se honne. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.]
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Madam Speaker, when the hon member Oosthuizen spoke, he
inter alia made reference to me. Then I said: Oubaas se honne.'' What it
means is that he is like a little dog. If the master speaks, he falls onto
his back and does just what the master tells him to. That is what the hon
Oosthuizen is. He isoubaas se honne’’.]
Mr D V BLOEM: Jy is ounooi se honne. Jy is ounooi se honne! [You are the mistress’s little dog! You are the mistress’s little dog!]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, I think this whole issue is getting a bit involved, and I really would not like us to share our time this afternoon with this particular matter which has come up. In fact, I am interested in hearing what happened exactly - what the member said and what he meant - so I am going to pursue it, but not here, not now. So I will follow it up later.
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Madam Speaker, I rise with a measure of disappointment. In the course of his address to this House, the hon Groenewald made remarks in reference to one of the senior generals of the national Defence Force, suggesting that the general had access to a Mercedes Benz in the course of the acquisition of the strategic defence package.
This House earlier on ordered an investigation by the agencies. This issue was raised in the public media and the reputation of the general was exposed to being undermined, because when the investigation had been carried out, there was no link whatsoever between the vehicle of the general and the investigation that was going on.
For members of the Joint Committee on Defence, who should have been the foremost people to know what the contents of that report was and that not even one word had ever been said about the general in that report, then to come and stand before this House and cast aspersions of that nature is unfair, cowardly and destructive.
If any member of this House is going to attack the integrity of the office of the national Defence Force without grounds, I will not accept that. [Interjections.]
Ms R TALJAARD: Madam Speaker, is the hon the Minister willing to take a question on this issue?
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Madam Speaker, I am not taking a question on that. I am dealing with this issue, so I do not need a question.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The Minister is not prepared to take a question, hon member.
Ms R TALJAARD: Madam Speaker, on a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is the point of order?
Ms R TALJAARD: Is it parliamentary for the Minister … [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, I would like to hear what the hon member is saying.
Ms R TALJAARD: Is it parliamentary for the Minister to give a factual inaccuracy to the House in relation to the report of the joint inspection team.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, it is your point of view that he is inaccurate. So it has nothing to do with anything parliamentary when you are actually expressing an opinion as to what he is saying is inaccurate. Please take your seat now, hon member. I have answered you.
Dr C P MULDER: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: Is it in order for the hon the Minister to refer to the behaviour of members as cowardly? Is that parliamentary?
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Madam Speaker, I contend that it is parliamentary. I am not expressing an opinion.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The hon member has raised an issue with the Chair and I would like to deal with that particular issue. In terms of the way we express ourself in Parliament, we do not encourage language like cowardly to one another. We generally regard that as unparliamentary.
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Madam Speaker, thank you very much. However, members of this House, because they have the privilege of speaking in this House and they cannot be challenged by officials of Government, take advantage as they come and stand in this House, making allegations against people who are defenceless, when they are defended. They must go outside of this House and make those statements so that I should not have to say they are cowards, but …
… as ‘n mens hier inkom en bewerings maak wat nie gegrond is nie, is dit net nie onaanvaarbaar nie. Dit is net nie reg nie. Die hele reputasie van dié Regering word beswadder. [Applous.] Ek moet aanvaar, almal van ons hier …
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Mev die Speaker, is die agb Minister bereid om ‘n vraag te beantwoord? [Tussenwerpsels.] Ek vra dit vir die agb Minister en nie vir die ander lede nie. Is hy bereid om ‘n vraag oor hierdie spesifieke saak te beantwoord, siende dat hy my aanval?
Die MINISTER VAN VERDEDIGING: Nee, ek is nie bereid om ‘n vraag te beantwoord nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[… when one comes here and makes unfounded allegations, it is not only unacceptable. It is just not right. The reputation of the whole Government is being maligned. [Applause.] I must accept, all of us here …
Mr P J GROENEWALD: Madam Speaker, is the hon the Minister prepared to take a question. [Interjections.] I am asking the hon Minister, and not the other members. Is he prepared to take a question about this specific matter, seeing that he is attacking me?
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: No, I am not prepared to take a question.]
Mr P J GROENEWALD: Then you are a coward!
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Ek sal dit in die komitee beantwoord. Op hierdie oomblik is ek besig om te antwoord. [Tussenwerpsels.] Ek is besig. [I shall answer it in the committee. At present I am making my reply. I am busy.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Groenewald, I do not encourage that kind of behaviour. You asked whether the hon the Minister would like to take a question and he said no. But he is prepared to engage you in the committee, and I think that the matter can be pursued outside the House. I would like the Minister to proceed with his speech.
Mr T D LEE: Madam Speaker, could I address you on this point of order?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.
Mr T D LEE: You made a ruling, but … [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Coetzee, please take your seat.
Mr T D LEE: You made a ruling, Madam Speaker, but it seems to me as if the hon the Minister does not accept it. I have not heard him apologising or saying I am sorry and retracting his words.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Right! Hon Minister, on the issue of having said that
the hon member is a coward, I would like you to withdraw that. However, it
does not mean you are unable to make your point. I think your point can be
made without the word coward''. I would just like you to withdraw the
question of thecoward’’.
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Madam Speaker, I did not say that the member is a coward! I said it was ``cowardly behaviour’’. He has said I am a coward. Not that it will harm me. It will not harm me and it will not change anything. I am not even going to ask him to withdraw that. But the behaviour of taking advantage of people who are defenceless is what I am talking about. It is cowardly, not the individual. I am not saying the individual is a coward. [Applause.]
Ms N G W BOTHA: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: The hon Groenewald, despite what the Minister has just said, has referred to the Minister as a coward directly, so could you make a ruling on that.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Botha, that is an issue which occurred as the hon member was going to take his seat, and I have addressed him on that. I do not, really, want to have this House degenerating into a question of a back-and-forth scenario. I would like the hon the Minister to continue to make his remarks. Otherwise we are going to spend the rest of the evening having this back-and-forth scenario about this cowardly thing. Hon Minister, could you please finish off your speech.
Mr K M ANDREW: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: …
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Andrew I do not want you to pursue the issue of the Minister’s words and Mr Groenewald’s words. I would not like you to pursue that …
Mr K M ANDREW: No, it is an issue of your … [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If that is what you are … [Interjections.] No, hon Andrew, …
Mr K M ANDREW: Those are not his words.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Andrew, please take your seat. I am not allowing you to do that. I would like the Minister to now continue with his speech. Hon Andrew, I would not like you to go on with that kind of attitude. I would like to proceed with the proceedings of this House. Hon Minister, please finish your speech.
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Thank you, Madam Speaker. There has been a suggestion that there is a need for this country to undertake another Defence Review. I would like to say that there is no need to do that. At the beginning of this democratic period, the country undertook a Defence White Paper process and determined policy. It proceeded to evaluate defences under the Defence Review and determined the overall needs of the country for purposes of its security into the future.
That Defence Review was not intended for two or three months; it was intended for the long-term defence of this country. The executive is engaged in acquiring those capabilities that have been ordered by Parliament within the constraints of the budget, and it is going to take some time to get there. This is a journey that we have embarked on, and we cannot turn back now.
Secondly, the strategic Defence appreciation is a process undertaken by South Africa’s foremost military minds at this time, to assess from time to time, and to check from day to day and in a vigilant manner, whether this country is able to respond to any eventuality wherever its security is threatened. This strategic Defence appreciation in which Gen Nyanda and other leaders of the SA National Defence Force, trained men and women who are experts in their field, are engaged and are evaluating and adjusting every now then. It is sufficient for the security of all the members in this House and this nation as a whole.
We do not need anybody else to interfere with that, least of all schoolboys who came into this House a few months ago. [Laughter.]
The third issue is that part of that process of making sure that we manage our defence comprises of some of the steps we are taking today. We have removed some of the Defence personnel which was surrounding little Lesotho, and we are not going to return them there. They were put there by the old apartheid regime when it thought that the attack to itself would come from inside Lesotho. [Interjections.]
Today there is no threat coming out of Lesotho that requires us to surround that little country with armed forces. The issue of stock theft and things like that are the task of the SA Police Service, and I am not going to put soldiers there for that purpose. [Interjections.] It would be a waste of time and money for this country. [Interjections.]
Part of the process of dealing with the question of Defence expenditure and even the deployment of personnel is that at the present time we are identifying some of the members of the National Defence Force whom we want to remuster in other services. They are not junk. These are men and women of quality with outstanding records. [Interjections.]
We do not want their services to be lost to this nation because the SA National Defence Force has to be pared to the numbers that have been ordered by this House. Instead of throwing them out into the street when we actually need them elsewhere, we are remustering them in other services, so that this country continues to benefit from their expertise and training, and the general investment that has been put into their training.
In the time that is left, I would like to turn to the issue of the region. We deployed our forces in Burundi, not because of a Big Brother attitude or because we were looking for adventure. The security of the people of this country is very much predicated upon the stability of the entire region. And unless we can stabilise the countries that are surrounding our country, the security of the people of this country is very brittle.
The numbers of men and women who are running from conflict and pouring into this country are staggering. The prisons are overflowing, and the police stations are full. We are arresting 1 000 and more every month only between Messina and Louis Trichardt. People are pouring into the country in this way because of conflict, tension, starvation and the instability of the economies in their own countries. This country cannot hope to remain stable when these people pour in in those numbers.
First of all, if one arrests them in Bloemfontein or Johannesburg, one has to put them in a police station and give them food; if they become sick, one has to give them medical care; if they have no clothes, one has to clothe them; and then, lastly, one has to give them free transport back to their countries. It is extremely expensive to allow a situation of overflowing tension in the Southern African region.
That is why we deployed our forces in Burundi. We are doing something which perhaps many South Africans or the opposition do not understand. But we have done something with Burundi for international peace support operations. We did not do this blindly. From these men and women who are sitting behind me and in the gallery, we sent experts to Burundi. Some were in intelligence and others were top generals.
They went in and studied that situation and made recommendations as to whether it was possible for South Africa to deploy forces there or not, even though the mechanical prescriptions of the United Nations required certain conditions. They came back to report, and they recommended that we could deploy forces there, thereby sustaining and supporting Foreign Affairs, and supporting the peace process, even though there was no ceasefire in place. It was November when we first put them there. It is now May, and not a single shot has been fired in the direction of the SA National Defence Force personnel deployed there. This confirms the accuracy of the assessment made by the men and women who did that work. [Applause.]
That was not a matter of adventure. The challenge of the continent is that Africa must take the lead in establishing peace, because nations outside of this continent are not prepared to come in here and bring their young men and women, thereby throwing them into foreign terrain where their … [Interjections] … commitment is less. We have no other continent but Africa … [Interjections] … and we have to go back there. But, as I have said, we must not do that as a matter of adventure. It has got to be studied and done very carefully. That is what these experts, led by Gen Nyanda, have done, and that is why we are going on with that work.
The reputation and the standing of our country has been raised to levels unknown since before we came into power. Therefore I would like to say to my colleagues in the House, both from my party and from the opposition, that we must accept this responsibility as a country that South Africa must lead, because other countries lack both the expertise and the ability to do so, and also because we have benefited so much from them in the course of the struggle to democratise our country.
The lives of the people of very poor countries which had nothing were put at risk. In Lesotho people were slaughtered; in Botswana people were smashed; in Zimbabwe buildings were brought down; and in Matola hundreds were killed. Not only did they give money, but they also gave the lives of their people for our democracy. [Applause.] Today we can afford to be here and have peace. [Applause.]
If I may, I would like to say something with regard to another issue. There have been a lot of jokes about the issue of Zimbabwe and what I said on Friday.
First of all, if there is an impression anywhere that I did not support the approach of Government in Zimbabwe, that is a mistaken impression. I was one of the most enthusiastic supporters of the approach of Government in Zimbabwe. I have led missions, and they were not only delegations from my party. I have been sent there by the President on several occasions to support the work that was being done there.
At no stage have I ever suggested to my colleagues, inside or outside of Cabinet, that I thought we should take a different route. If there have been failures, and if we have not achieved what we wanted to achieve in Zimbabwe, I am as responsible for that as all the others.
However, it is a mistake to adopt an attitude which suggests that South Africa’s Cabinet is made of little boys and girls who cannot hold or apply their personal judgments to issues. That is a big mistake.
The President, who is not here today, is not a man who enjoys having lapdogs. He wants watchdogs. He wants to engage in robust debate, which we do. [Interjections.]
Of course, that is why I can say that my own view is that we did not achieve as much as we thought we would achieve. Not that that is news. There are many people who hold views like that. Even in Cabinet, I am sure, there are others who feel that way, but all of us are convinced that there is no other route to take regarding Zimbabwe. The only correct route to follow is the one we are following, and we will continue to do so.
So, I was not making those comments jokingly. It is a matter of serious concern for us in respect of what the security of our region is going to be. We take that responsibility. [Interjections.] [Time expired.] [Applause.]
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 17 - Housing:
The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Madam Speaker, hon members, it is now eight years since we started with the housing programme, which is directed at improving the living conditions of our people.
For all practical purposes, implementation of the 1994 White Paper on Housing has been completed, and although the basic tenets of the policy are sound, some gaps still remain. Whereas housing was used as part of the control mechanism of the apartheid government, we have said that housing is an essential pillar of our policy to create a better life for all.
This is a basic right we are striving to ensure the progressive realisation of through the biggest and most widely spread spending on social budgets by any government in the history of South Africa. It is at the height of the transformation and development programme of our country for better human settlements. Various policy instruments are still relatively new, and their impact is still to be felt, especially in rural areas where development has been retarded on account of tenure uncertainty and capacity constraints. As a result, certain policy outcomes have not fully met some of the expectations and the full spectrum of housing needs have yet to be met in the most economic, efficient and effective manner possible.
We have successfully shifted the focus from policy-making of the early years to implementation, to policy enhancement and refinement. This is informed by the experience and dynamics of housing provision and the need to improve performance in the housing sector. In future, more attention will be paid to monitoring and performance evaluation to assess the various policies, strategies and programmes. While housing delivery has reached optimum levels in so far as the available budget is concerned, we have shifted emphasis to the more qualitative aspects of delivery. Our efforts are more directed to the streamlining of procedures, increasing administrative efficiency, ensuring quality housing products, better value for money and broadening choice for our communities. We are adjusting our approaches to ensure that, by contributing their own efforts for their housing, more of our people can benefit more quickly.
Today, as the democratically elected Parliament of the Republic of South Africa debates the Housing budget for this financial year, we can rightly say that housing is well on track, and is a significant thrust in our strategy to transform and stabilise society.
The preamble of the Housing Act of 1997 recognises housing as a key sector of the national economy. Housing is an important contributor to growth, employment creation and wealth generation. Housing has a low import propensity, and its forward and backward linkages to the development process stimulate economic activity across a broad spectrum of economic sectors. Low-cost housing, in particular, lends itself to labour-intensive practices that provide work for people with relatively low skills levels.
For these reasons and a host of others, housing is a growth catalyst of inestimable value to the socioeconomic well-being of the nation. However, housing is not able to function properly unless prevailing economic conditions are conducive to growth and investment. Unfortunately for us, growth has been sluggish, and many negative factors have had to be overcome but, potentially, housing can be a major engine of national and local economic growth.
The use of local labour and small contractors in housing development is one of the guiding principles of the Housing Subsidy Programme which ensured the circulation of wages in local economies and resulted in a local multiplier effect. Correctly designed and regulated, housing can serve the dual purposes of providing living and working space for purposes of income generation.
Inflation in the building and construction industry, and in the housing sector has been contained to single digit figures for several years now. In this climate of growing confidence and against the background of expectations of accelerated economic growth, the state-assisted delivery segment of the housing market came under pressure as developers and contractors left the settlement for the less risky and more profitable middle and high-income housing market.
To achieve the objective of sustainable investment in low-cost housing, we aim to introduce measures to improve efficiency in housing subsidy administration, reduce administrative risks that inhibit private investment, ensure a fair and equitable system of competitive procurement in respect of housing development contracts that emanate from the National Housing Subsidy Programme, and to promote appropriate training in home building construction and management to ensure adequate quality and capacity among emerging building contractors from previously disadvantaged groups, provincial and local government officials and consumer education for low-income earners.
Although the rent and services and bonds boycotts belong to the past, their legacy will be with us for a considerable time, because the scars of consequential impoverishment and entrenched forms of behaviour heal very slowly. The normalisation of the housing environment was one of the strategic thrusts of the 1994 White Paper on Housing. We continue with our efforts in support of the normalisation process.
For as long as the situation is perceived not to have been sufficiently normalised, Government will have to manage inherent risks if private investment in housing is to reach desired levels. In mitigation of risks, Government is committed to political and administrative certainty. We will continue to consistently apply housing policy and strategy in an efficient and effective manner within the framework of an enabling regulatory environment.
Our continued assessment reveals that our policy has had an unintended consequence, which is dependency, which negates self-sufficiency. Our noble intentions of providing basic shelter to the poor have also promoted total dependency on the state providing for all.
But, contrary to this, two glaring truths about our country are apparent. Firstly, thousands of stokvels and societies or social clubs exist in our communities and are proof that our people are not only capable of saving, but that they indeed do so in a very organised and disciplined fashion. Secondly, the ingenuity of the informal settlements and the building traditions of the rural areas show that our people are ready and willing to contribute their own labour to improving their housing if sweat is the only equity they can afford.
The monetary value we have placed on the beneficiary contribution is R2 479, and there will be three ways in which contributions are made. Firstly, through a savings scheme, either with a bank or a non-traditional savings institution. Secondly, in the form of a small or microloan from a lender. Thirdly, for anyone who has neither the means to save nor the necessary standing with lenders, the amount can be contributed in the form of sweat equity or work on the house construction as is done in the People’s Housing Process.
This contribution will become an integral part of our subsidy programme and will facilitate improvement on the quality of the houses to meet the requirement of the Housing Consumer Protection Measures Act through the National Home Builders Registration Council standards.
There will now be a condition for getting a Government housing subsidy, ie a contribution of R2 479 for each and every recipient of a subsidy, with effect from April 2002. [Applause.]
There will be very clear and narrowly defined exceptions to this rule, which will be applied on a case by case basis. I can indicate that Government does not believe that it would be fair to expect differently abled people, pensioners and the indigent, to contribute to their housing in this way. Under this new dispensation, these special categories will receive the full amount of the subsidy without having to make this contribution. But we still wish to encourage the young and able-bodied to play a meaningful role in acquiring their homes.
Therefore, housing subsidies as currently structured tend to promote dependency on state support and negate self-sufficiency. Savings and sweat equity contributions by prospective homeowners, which have not been encouraged enough up to now, are now the central thrust of our subsidisation programme. Our aim is to combat dependency and its twin sister, disempowerment, in favour of self-sufficiency and its twin sister, sense of ownership, not only on the question of individual housing, but also of the country.
Our people can contribute through savings and sweat equity to empowerment and sustainable development. To match this, Government has agreed to support their efforts by increasing its contribution through the housing subsidy.
Today I am extremely pleased to be able to announce to the House and to the nation an increase in the housing subsidy of between 28,8% and 57,64%. [Applause.] This is not only compensation for the inflationary effect on the subsidy, but results in real improvement in the houses to be built from this financial year onwards.
This increase is intended to benefit the poor by affording them a better house when combined with their own contribution. It is not intended to line the pockets of developers, builders and material suppliers with more profit. This increase is a deliberate incentive on our part to encourage savings and own contributions.
Today I can announce that the R16 000 subsidy will be increased to R20 300, a 26,87% increase for those earning an income of less than R1 500 per month. [Applause.] [Interjections.] There will be a R10 000 subsidy increase to R14 000, a 48,8% increase for those within the category of R1 501 to R2 500 income bracket. To those who have been receiving a R5 500 subsidy, this will be increased to R8 200, a 54% increase for those within the category of R2 501 and R3 500 income bracket. For the aged, the differently abled and the indigent, the subsidy increase is from R16 000 to R22 800, an increase of 42,5%. The consolidation subsidy will increase by R2 400 from the current R8 500 to R10 900, an increase of 28,23%, and for the aged, the disabled and the indigent from R4 900 to R13 400, an increase of 57,64%. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Sorry, hon Minister, may I just take a minute of your time. Honourable members of the public in the gallery, we know that this is good news, but the ruling of the House is that you do not participate or applaud in the proceedings of the House. We therefore appeal to you to observe the proceedings, but not to disrupt the speakers at the podium. The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Chairperson, overall, the housing budget’s additional amount for the increase in the subsidy is as follows: For this financial year, 2002-03, it will be R300 million; for the next financial year, 2003-04, it will be R579 million and for the financial year 2004-05, it will be R574 million.
In December 2001 Cabinet approved the application and expenditure of an additional allocation, which entails an increase in the quantum of the subsidy - dealing with inflation; a medium-density housing programme - R27 000 subsidy; and enhancement of quality of houses - the National Home Builders Registration Council warranty scheme and own contribution. Details on the allocation of funds to provinces are provided in Annexure A of the copies of this speech.
This is a clear message that Government is willing to help those who can help themselves, and yet create a safety net for those who are truly not able to fend for themselves. It is a message that confirms that housing remains a priority for the ANC-led Government.
As we move forward in our quest for providing more opportunities for those in need of housing, we are determined that the quality of the individual house in our towns, cities and villages should improve.
From a policy perspective, criticism indicates that too much emphasis was initially placed on ownership. This is understandable when viewed against the background of past deprivation of property rights affecting the majority of the population. However, a more balanced approach is indicated
- hence recent initiatives to normalise the rent housing market and promote alternative tenure options.
The lack of a comprehensive rental housing policy has been recognised as a shortcoming and a process has been initiated to fulfil this need. The Rental Housing Act of 1999 has been adopted and the Social Housing Foundation has been statutorily recognised and mandated to promote the concept of co-operative housing and to assist in the establishment of institutions to hold and manage housing stock on a sustainable basis.
The National Presidential Jobs Summit housing pilot programmes will inform the process of establishing rental housing policy. Various options of providing rental housing, based on a holistic, viable and sustainable process of integrated community development, will be tested. The department has finalised the drafting of the social housing policy which will constitute a greater part of our drive to promoting rental housing.
The Hostel Redevelopment Programme will also become a second thrust in promoting rental housing. The programme focuses on providing choice and encouraging the development of family units at affordable rent. Transformation and redevelopment of hostels is key to the restoration of dignity to this sector of our society, the hostel dwellers. It is intended to reverse the worst kind of discrimination, which forced many of our people to live in overcrowded single-sex hostels, and denied them the right to live with their families.
To add insult to injury, these hostels had minimum or no facilities and were isolated from surrounding communities. We need only recall the bloodshed in the early 1990s to know that never again should people be expected to live under such conditions, robbed of the very basics of their dignity.
A draft social housing Bill was developed last year. This Bill is currently being refined in line with the social housing policy discussion document that has been developed. It aims to establish a sustainable social housing process. It provides for the establishment of the office of the registrar of social housing institutions, and it affords statutory recognition to housing institutions. This office will establish accreditation processes and criteria for housing institutions and generally regulate, inspect and do all things that are necessary to ensure good governance and sustainability of housing institutions.
Eight years since we began the housing programme, we can rightfully point to many achievements. Even by international standards, we can point to an unprecedented rate of delivery which resulted in 1,325 million houses built or under construction, and a total expenditure by Government of R18,4 billion which has provided over 5 million people who previously did not have shelter, a place they can call home.
I would be failing in my duty if I did not also indicate the challenges that we face. A number of our housing instruments are still relatively new and their full positive impact is still to be felt at the grass-roots level. This is especially the case in rural areas where development has sometimes been retarded on account of tenure uncertainty and capacity constraints, and the slow transfer of land and delays in township establishment procedures sometimes due to capacity constraints at local government level.
The re-emergence of the problem of underspending in some of the provinces indicates insufficient capacity at provincial and local government levels. But the summary of expenditure analysis by provinces reveals that we are again faced with the challenge of underexpenditure in certain provinces, not all but in certain provinces.
Mr G B D McINTOSH: ANC provinces.
The MINISTER: That is nonsense. Some of these provinces have been experiencing underspending since the beginning of the financial year of 2001-02. The reasons that have been advanced for this situation are summarised as follows: slow processing of the transfer of land; the slow process of accrediting the local authorities; late finalisation of new contracts with developers because business plans were not yet in place; in the Western Cape, expenditure started very slowly in the first half of the year due to the high number of projects that were in the final stages of completion and which were affected by slow transfer; new local government structures that have to take responsibility for approving or reprioritising projects; delays in decision-making processes; and, of course, unseasonal or unusually wet weather and floods, which have nothing to do with the ANC, but are related to nature.
A document researched for SADC on corruption revealed disturbing results from which we as a country should learn. In a survey sampling about 2 200 respondents conducted between 6 July and 3 August 2000, the research found that beneficiaries of government services in a number of member states had been asked for bribes before they could get a house, with 4% of those interviewed confirming this. The form of corruption mentioned by those interviewed, amongst others, was that beneficiaries are often asked for a bribe in order to qualify irregularly when they actually are above the scales set for beneficiaries. I will limit myself here to housing matters only, as my interpretation of the survey.
When talking to beneficiaries through regular interaction, I have gathered from them that women have been asked to provide sexual favours before they could get a house; individuals not qualifying for a housing subsidy accessed the subsidy - this constitutes corruption because those subsidies are meant for the poorest of the poor; individuals accessing more than one subsidy and being assisted by some officials or councillors in doing so is a matter to be clarified by the investigation; individuals receiving the RDP houses, but using those houses for unacceptable activities like brothels; and people exchanging the RDP houses without following the pre- emptive clause requirements. If those people are identified, the law shall take its course. The survey that I am talking about does not put South Africa in a desperate state because I think that this Government is determined to deal with corruption.
I have the pleasure of announcing that the investigation task team tasked with investigating fraud, corruption, maladministration and mismanagement is now fully operational. It will operate in collaboration with the Special Investigative Unit, the Director of Public Prosecutions, the Office for Serious Economic Offences, the Auditor-General, the SA Police Service and the national anticorruption forum. [Applause.]
Interest rates express the cost of capital employed in the housing development process and the return on capital investment, either as development capital or home loan finance. Accordingly, interest rates influence both the price of housing and the ability of consumers to rent or purchase instalments. Fortunately, interest rates have declined sharply in recent times, eg mortgage interest rates have declined from a peak level of 24% per annum approximately three years ago to a current level of about 14,5%. Comparable global rates in developed countries with low inflation average half of that. That is a situation to which South Africa must continue to aspire if any impact whatsoever is to be made on the housing backlog.
In terms of what we have been doing and what we have observed, in relation to financing of housing through loans and microlending, there has not been enough progress. Because of that, in the year 2000 we promulgated the Home Loan and Mortgage Disclosure Act to assess lending patterns. This month, we have published the sister legislation of the Home Loan and Mortgage Disclosure Act. The sister Act is now being promoted and published in the Gazette, ie the draft Community Reinvestment Bill. We are asking hon members and the public to really give their input to this Bill prior to submission to Parliament.
I would like to encourage all role-players, including community organisations, to actively participate in the formulation of this very important piece of legislation which can only be of benefit to our people and the transformation of the financial services industry. We commit ourselves to increasing choices available to our people and will work towards a system of beneficiary participation where most people who are assisted by the Government with their housing can further contribute through accessing credit, or contribute savings or their sweat equity. We are actually calling upon people to stand up and do things for themselves.
Sithi: Vukuzenzele ngoba kuneletsema. [We say: Vukuzenzele because we have Letsema.]
It is also important to place housing in its wider context as part of a strategy to develop and sustain human settlements, and also in line with international good practice. There is much that we can learn from. We can also learn much from our experience which we can share with other countries in the developing world, especially Africa. As confirmed by the UN-Habitat statement, the executive director considered it important in her opening statement for Africa to acknowledge that the region is entering the urban millennium and that it will experience the highest urbanisation rate of all the world’s regions in the coming years.
Our continued engagement in international forums, particularly Nepad, has the potential to improve the living conditions of millions of people in our region through raising the profile of the requirements for sustainable human settlements. Through these engagements, we can also enlist the technical and financial support which we need in the region to provide basic services and shelter to the burgeoning urban masses. This is demonstrated by our active involvement in the World Summit for Sustainable Development process to promote human settlements and development.
Through human settlement promotion, housing is pivotal in the link between the various levels of government and the various national departments. In support of the Habitat agenda and the notion of ``water is life and sanitation is dignity’’, Housing will continue to provide these basic services through our subsidy programme.
Our aim is to achieve effective co-ordination between ourselves and the Departments of Provincial and Local Government; Land Affairs; Water Affairs and Forestry; and Public Works, as well as our counterparts in the international arena, so that the benefits of international fora are not lost to sectoral approaches.
It is my pleasure to inform this House that there is only one way for housing, and that is to promote sustainable development to enhance the subsidy increase, and to support the housing programme.
I would like to tell hon members that for as long as I have been Minister of Housing, we have been in discussion with the major banks about their role in developing and creating opportunities in the housing market. We have established no less than three housing institutions to normalise lending and establish risk management and mitigation measures.
We have, indeed, bent over backwards to be responsive to legitimate concerns of financial institutions. However, home loan finance is still insufficiently accessible. Banks in particular have failed to adjust to the needs of a changing housing market and have also not looked beyond the appropriate traditional mortgages, as other financial service sectors have done elsewhere. We have, in turn, often encountered goodwill and the desire to respond to the country’s housing needs from within the banking sector. But the response has not swelled to the chorus of resounding support that we would have liked to hear by now.
We hope that the institution of the Community Reinvestment Act will assist us to encourage the banks to move forward and develop in a manner that moves away from conventional practices that are necessarily in line with what the entire country is trying to do. We would like to see the banks transformed. We would like to see them put together packages that relate to and address the needs of the poorest of the poor on the ground.
I am looking forward to the debate in this House. [Applause.]
Mrs Z A KOTA: Chairperson, hon Minister and members of Parliament, guests from the housing industry and members of the department, it is a great honour to speak on this important Budget Vote as this is my maiden speech as the chairperson of the portfolio committee. [Applause.]
Allow me to pay tribute to my predecessor, Comrade Nomatyala Hangana, and to wish her well on her new deployment as MEC of housing in the Western Cape. Halala, Comrade Nomatyala, halala! [Applause.] My gratitude also goes to the Minister of Housing, Comrade Sankie, for her continued good working relationship with the committee.
We are debating this vote with an understanding that the Minister has exceeded her target in terms of housing delivery. On 28 April 2002 the Sunday Times published a survey conducted by the SA Advertising Research Foundation measuring the change in the quality of people’s lives since the democratic order was installed eight years ago. It says that since 1994 the Government housing programme has yielded an increase of 1,5 million houses. Eight years ago, 64% of South African households owned their homes.
By this time last year, taking into account the growth in the total number of homes, the number of homeowners grew to 77%. In rural areas home ownership went from 78% to 86%, while 71% of urban dwellers own their homes compared with 55% in 1994.
Last year 76% of households had piped water, which is an 8% increase. Water delivery has improved by 85% in the rural communities. This is what the ANC Government has done for the people of South Africa.
Despite this progress we do know, however, that the backlog is still huge. The challenge that is confronting us all as stakeholders in this industry is how to move from quantity to quality without losing momentum in terms of pace. Our challenge, therefore, is to ensure that the delivery of houses is accompanied by all relevant services in terms of infrastructure …
… nokuba ezi zindlu zinakho na ukwenza ukuba oomama babenakho ukutyala imifuno balime nemithi. [… and whether these housing units could make it possible for women to grow vegetables and plant trees.]
We must offer more space in housing units for vegetable gardens and planting of trees, so that the building of houses could contribute positively to poverty alleviation. [Applause.] We support Comrade Minister in her call to make sure that each House has a tree through ``Planting a Tree’’, the campaign which is led by Nature. It would be important if the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry could support this initiative.
The committee visited two provinces, KwaZulu-Natal and North West, in April and agreed to look at the question of norms and standards as outlined in the National Housing Policy to see whether it had been adhered to. The aim was to ensure that the Government gets the best product and value for their money in the process of housing delivery.
We wanted to see if the building of houses was empowering communities in terms of job creation and skills development; whether the processes themselves were people-driven or developer-driven; and to what extent housing delivery was empowering emerging contractors. We wanted to find out also whether the people’s housing programmes were taking off the ground and, if so, what the progress was.
I extend a vote of thanks to MECs and all those who have given us overwhelming support during these visits. Both provinces have delivered in terms of houses. One of the findings we made was that housing is not a standalone issue. Addressing the backlog needs integration at all levels with other sectors and spheres of government, so that we avoid what we saw in Ga-Rankuwa and other areas, where many houses have been built, but where there is no school, electricity or hospitals.
Housing cannot be promoted or delivered outside the broader context of integrated service delivery. All departments need to play their role with the same impetus. We need to involve them during the planning stages. Communities need to be empowered in terms of what is expected of each project.
In one area, the developer told us that he had built a gravel road for the community out of his own goodwill, but this is the requirement in terms of norms and standards, as well as the national policy. It is included in the subsidy. There were also people who felt that they had signed happy letters although they had not received homes. This was shocking as people are supposed to sign these happy letters after getting houses and having checked that everything is okay.
It was clear that in some instances we were dealing with the moral degeneration of our society, where houses were used as salons, shops, etc. It was clear to us that people were not staying in those houses. That is where the issue of involvement of all the community is very critical to guard against these anomalies. It is clear that these houses were given to people who did not qualify.
We do know also that there are people who sell RDP houses, as the Minister has just said. These are matters to be dealt with at community level and the culprits should be brought to book. Our communities need to report these people. The objective of this ANC Government is to give houses to the most needy, the poorest of the poor. Bad elements that divert us from this goal need to be identified and the law must take its course.
Many of these issues have the bearing to the capacity of local government at the municipal level. To what extent do they have systems that are able to detect these anomalies? Once again, the Government’s first line of defence is our people out there. As long as we keep quiet while these elements roam our streets, we will not do justice to our cause.
It would be incorrect if we did not share with the House our experience at Kanana hostel in Klerksdorp. There are 800 people living in the hostel, which has no ablution facilities, not even a bucket system. The hostel itself does not need renovation; it needs to be demolished and rebuilt from scratch.
I congratulate the MEC, Darkie Africa, on acting swiftly on the matter. We are awaiting the report on the progress made. This hostel is an indication of the mammoth task we have at local government level during the process of transforming these institutions.
We must continue the journey to house our nation with the notion of bringing back the dignity of our people. It is, therefore, critical that they should be active participants in this process, well armed with information and knowledge to make their dream a reality. Together, we can house ourselves.
Bringing services will stabilise the community and the people will start making their own investment. This community-based approach is deemed necessary to bring the sense of ownership, which will in turn enhance the quality of our people’s lives.
One issue that has been raised by all stakeholders across the board is the issue of the delay in terms of the transfer of land. This is a matter that needs to be addressed, as it makes it difficult for beneficiaries and developers to access the subsidy.
In conclusion, I would like to draw the attention of this House to the evictions in Khayelitsha, here at home. I visited the area with Mr Doman, the MEC for local government and my comrade, Nomatyala Hangana. We went to the house of a 68-year-old pensioner, Vuyelwa Skelemani. The sight of the house inside indicated that the family was in a terrible state of poverty. We also saw an elderly person who was ill and had been sick for some time. This elderly person had been without water and electricity for two weeks, because she could not afford to pay rates.
Now, is this not a reversal of our gains if these poorest of the poor are sent back to the streets? I am appealing to the City of Cape Town not to embark on blanket evictions. They need to examine each case thoroughly. The security and comfort of our people should be paramount. Our people need humane and caring policies and not evictions.
Poverty is our enemy number one. We would be able to fight this enemy if all of us did what we are supposed to do with what is given to us by the Government. It is about time that we move away from seeing a house just as four walls and a roof, but rather as a resource or an instrument that could be used in fighting poverty.
We are a nation that wants to be known as a winning nation, with a winning attitude. Let us pull together towards this single goal. Where there is a will, there is a way. Phambili, Minister, phambili! The ANC supports this Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Ms J A SEMPLE: Mr Chairperson, Minister, hon members, rumours have been flying around about the increase in the housing subsidy. [Interjections.] Yes, rumours, Ma’am, and no details! We got the details today. That is what the Minister announced, in case the member was not listening. The Minister and her department have certainly been playing their cards very close to their chests. But maybe the hon Botha had a little view that none of us had an experience of. The subsidy was supposed to take place from 1 April this year, but has yet to be implemented, so we are very pleased to hear the actual details from the Minister today.
While this increase is to be welcomed, it should be pointed out that this is the first increase in the lowest subsidy level since 1997. Looking at the effects of inflation alone, the subsidy should have been at least R27
- Does the Minister not know how the price of bread has increased in the last five years, never mind petrol or even building materials?
I do realise that, obviously, the bigger the housing subsidy, the fewer the people that can have access to it. But even the Minister herself has admitted that we should now be going for quality instead of quantity.
As in most national departments, the development of emerging contractors is actively encouraged by the Department of Housing, while most of my colleagues in the ruling party have a problem with contractors - especially big white-owned firms - making a profit. One wonders why they think anyone, regardless of the size of their company, would want to go into business if not to make a profit? This has become increasingly difficult, resulting in many builders either losing money or going bankrupt.
We all agree that the fact that the housing subsidy beneficiaries have to contribute - either financially, or by means of sweat equity - something to the tune of R2 439 will give them a greater sense of ownership and, hopefully, increase the unit size and quality. But exactly how does the Minister expect people to save with the present high levels of unemployment?
The House would like to know if there is a time limit for the savings to be made before the house is handed over or after it is handed over? What happens if the house is ready, but the beneficiary has not managed to save their contributions yet? Will that person go to the back of the queue?
In the case of the sweat equity opportune, how will that component be incorporated into the building of a house? The Minister has also announced, recently, that the National Home Builders Registration Council will now also be responsible for inspecting low-income housing. So, what will happen if a house built with sweat equity is found to be of a sub-standard quality?
Furthermore, who will be responsible for ensuring that the finished product meets the minimum norms and standards? Who will train the beneficiaries in building skills? Who will pay for the training, and how much is this estimated to cost? The entire normal labour component for building a unit is almost R1 000 less than the R2 439 allocated for sweat equity. What implications will that have for the quality and size of the house?
As regards the inspection function done by the NHBRC, which will now include RDP housing as mentioned above, apart from ensuring that standards are maintained, does the Minister believe that the NHBRC has the capacity to take on what would effectively be more than 150 000 extra units per year? This is in the light of the fact that this function was previously outsourced and the contracts of the inspectors have not been renewed. Who has been performing this function in the meantime, and who will do it in future? What systems and functions have been put in place by the NHBRC in order to accommodate the additional workload?
As mentioned by my colleague, the new chairperson of the housing portfolio committee - and congratulations on her speech - a perpetual problem with RDP housing is that often the people who qualify for these houses cannot afford to live in them. Basic maintenance is not done, services are not paid for, and eventually the owners sometimes resort to selling these houses for a fraction of their value, sometimes for as little as R1 000 in cash. Would the Minister like to tell the House what is being done to prevent these sales, and whether there are any statistics available for such activity?
The Minister herself in her speech mentioned that sometimes these houses are used for business activities. What is done about that?
It was also noticeable, on the portfolio committee’s recent provincial visit, that very little attention seems to be paid to co-ordinated departmental planning from a local government point of view. At each development the question was asked: where is the school, the police station, the clinic, the community centre, the shops, the taxi rank? This was either answered by showing us the vacant site or vaguely waving in an unknown direction. We appeal to the Minister to make every effort to co- ordinate integrated planning with her colleagues at a national and provincial level, so that when our people move into their new home other services are also available.
One is also struck by the huge variance in size and quality that different builders manage to provide from the previous subsidy regardless of its limitations. Obviously, a lot depends on the topography of the area where the houses are built, but surely there must be someone responsible for making sure of that? In an example that I saw recently on my own visit to Vergenoeg, Tiryville, an extremely poor community near Uitenhage, many bricks had gone to the first five to eight layers of the foundations and there were not enough to finish the top structure. The result was that the houses were not finished and no one wants to take responsibility for paying for the additional bricks.
Another example is showers, which are not part of the national norms and standards, but were present in all the RDP houses we saw in KwaZulu-Natal and not in the North West. How is it possible for contractors in one province to make provision for such a basic and inexpensive necessity, but not in other provinces? Again, why are some houses provided with trees, which we welcome, but not the others?
And perhaps most of all, it would take so little effort to make Government housing more attractive. Why is it that contractors cannot be persuaded to put every 10th house, for example, at a different angle to the rest? Why do all the doors and windows have to face the same way? I am sure if Mark Shuttleworth could see South Africa from his rocket, he would have spotted RDP houses immediately. I plead with the Minister that we make some effort to deinstitutionalise these developments and make them more people- friendly.
A further example of really good houses that we saw - and perhaps the best
- was those houses built under the PHP process. They definitely proved to be of the best quality. They are larger in size and there was lots of community involvement. While the general complaint about this type of housing seems to be that it is much slower than contract housing, I would submit that this is the way to go. We are going to support the principle of having quality rather than quantity. I would suggest that this be the way that the Department of Housing should go. [Applause.]
Mr S D MONTSITSI: Chairperson, the hon Minister of Housing, hon members, and our new Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Housing, Comrade Zoe Kota, on the occasion of his address to Habitat for Humanity in Oukasie, Brits, on 10 August 2001, the President, Mr Thabo Mbeki said, and I quote: You will find among South Africans a dedicated army of workers that has laboured tirelessly for the past seven years to house millions of our people, thus contributing, in their own humble way, to the improved living conditions of these people.
He further said:
This dedicated team of women and men has ensured that we deliver to all our people and the country more than 1 million houses in a space of six years, and in the process providing many millions of our people with shelter.
Having said that, let us remind ourselves that we have proclaimed this year the Year of the Volunteer for Reconstruction and Development of our Country.
It is a touching experience to watch the same women and men of whom the President spoke, the People’s Housing Process, draw their own plans, design their own houses to scale, build their own cardboard models, contribute their own money and build their own houses.
We wish to thank the Minister of Housing, Comrade Sankie, for recognising this bold act of voluntarism years ago, and providing funding to sustain this initiative. The Minister of Finance, Comrade Trevor Manuel, outlined to us the various figures of growth of our economy. The figures were as follows:
In the year 2000, the economic growth was 3,8%; the 2001 economic growth was 2,2%; and, the current growth is expected to reach 2,3%. Despite the setback of slow economic growth this year, the national Housing budget has been increased by 12%. The figure for the year 2001-02 was R3,3 billion, while this year’s figure has increased and stands at R3,7 billion.
We welcome this increase and support the formula of allocation to provinces. This allocation formula actually considered the following points: Firstly, the existing housing backlog measured through the number of informal dwellings per province; Secondly, the relative poverty figures in each province, of household earnings less than R3,500 per month; and, last but not least, the size of the population in each province. These form the yardstick that has been used to gauge the allocation to the provinces.
Let us take our hats off to some of our Housing MECs because they did not have any roll-overs in the past two years. [Applause.] All allocations have been converted into houses on the ground.
More good news on the housing front comes in the form of the increment in the housing subsidy scheme to R20 000 per household from R17 000. This will, fortunately, address the question of the rising inflation rate, which currently stands at 6,9%, from 6,6% in the year 2001. We trust that the increase in the subsidy will absorb whatever level of price increment will occur as a result of the current rise in inflation.
The current housing standard of 32m2 has been called names. To those who continue to do so we say: Pause and reflect on the past. For example, I was born in a township called Alexandra many years ago. The political system and philosophy of the then ruling party was to forcibly separate South African citizens along racial lines in order to break their resolve to fight back, courtesy of the Group Areas Act.
When I was eight years old we were removed from that township to another one called Diepkloof in Soweto. Furniture, toys, cats, mice, broken hearts and tears were whisked away to an unknown destination, on the back of a municipality truck. That is the experience that launched into the township full of rows of houses, most of them 42m2.
We paid rent and service charges in that council house for 30 years. After the new democracy was born, there were no longer pain and tears to be associated with our small 32m2 houses. We concede we must improve, and we will improve. But, at the same time we should consider the fact that the people who have occupied the 32m2 houses have got free leasehold and ownership of the house, and there is no place like home. Contractors, for instance, who do not follow the specifications when building and providing housing for our people obviously have to be followed up by the National Home Builders Registration Council.
When we proclaim that there shall be housing, security and comfort for all, we acknowledge, at the same time, the current obstacles. But we shall strive to implement this key clause of the Freedom Charter. [Applause.]
Mr B W DHLAMINI: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, the Director- General and her team, listening to the state of the nation address on 8 February this year, I was struck by His Excellency, the President’s call for a volunteers’ programme of ``Vukuzenzele.’’ This was music to my ears, because the IFP has for all its years of existence espoused the philosophy of self-help and self-reliance. Because of the IFP’s vision and insight into the real issues facing communities on the ground, it was easy for us to realise that without the contribution and direct involvement of communities in the improvement of their own lives, there was no way that success could be achieved in addressing the challenges they face.
For example, during the time when our leader, the hon Prince M G Buthelezi, was involved in the erstwhile KwaZulu government, as instructed by the founding fathers of our liberation struggle, he encouraged communities to embark on programmes such as ``Rand for a Rand’’, through which communities were able to galvanise financial resources in order to build, among other things, schools for the education of their children. The IFP welcomes the call and takes the challenge because we regard it as an articulation and implementation of our philosophy of self-help and self-reliance.
However, before I am mistaken for an aspirant leader of the opposition, let me get to the business of the day. It is our belief that the Department of Housing’s programmes are in line with the overall goals of the Government, of which we are part. They promote the spirit and objectives of our country’s Constitution, and we, therefore, support them.
However, there are certain issues that we would like to highlight and would like the department to look at. Firstly, the IFP’s vision for housing is the one in terms of which there is rapid and efficient delivery of essential services to the poorest of the poor in both urban and rural areas.
We believe in helping people house themselves by empowering communities to make informed decisions regarding prioritisation of housing needs, based on the best use of available resources; the affordability of family households; the appropriateness of the level of services; access to bond finance; the proximity to economic opportunities; and the durability of building material used.
The IFP welcomes the department’s shift from quantity to quality. And in the spirit of Vukuzenzele and the IFP’s philosophy of self-help and self- reliance, the People’s Housing Process is supported. Not only does it respond directly to the President’s call for people to start doing things for themselves, but also bring to fruition what we have always stated, that people should be directly involved in their development and must be given the opportunity to decide on the kind of development they require. We believe that this programme, if made the core of all the programmes of the department, will go a long way towards producing better quality houses, which will also be affordable.
It has been proven that when people are involved and do things themselves, they become committed to safeguarding and taking good care of the products brought about by the developmental process. Communities must be afforded the opportunity to decide for themselves the nature and the form of the structures they would like to erect when constructing their houses.
Secondly, it is our observation that the majority of houses that have been
built are on municipal land, with their own property rating policies taken
together with service delivery charges decided at that level. It is our
belief that the majority of communities which are beneficiaries of these
houses are at the lowest economic level. We are concerned that these
houses, which are aimed at contributing towards the eradication of poverty,
might in turn become poverty traps due to the failure and inability of
communities to pay rates and for services. But we welcome the department’s
initiative to encourage our communities to develop savings schemes. We also
urge other departments to get involved in creating sustainable job creation
projects in these housing projects. This is possible because our people are
willing - it is not that they are so poor that they cannot afford it. I
have heard one speaker saying that they cannot afford this. Slogans like
Amandla awethu!'' [power is ours!] have been replaced by Amandla imali
nolwazi’’ [power is money and knowledge]. [Applause.]
Thirdly, we welcome the department’s shift from a bias towards developing urban areas while neglecting, to a large extent, the development of rural areas. This created an anomaly in that all the people, whether they are rural or urban based, deserve the same treatment in terms of our Constitution. However, it is important to point out that these communities, rural and urban, are not homogeneous. Therefore approaches towards their development cannot be the same. Their development has to happen and must do so in a sustainable manner.
Mohlomphehi Letona, ke thabile haholo ha o ntse o bua mona ka dihosetele. Ho na le tletlebo mona mabapi le dihosetele, ya hore matlo, ha ke etsa mohlala, a Dobsonville, mane Bram Fischer le Meadowlands. Bram Fischer e na le matlo a 5000, mme ho nkile lefapha dilemo tse pedi feela le halofo ho a aha. Empa ha o sheba hosetele ya Meadowlands e na le ditulo tse 3 500, empa e nkile lefapha dilemo tse nne ho qeta hosetele eo. Ke nahana hore ke thabetse mantswe a hao a hore ba nke maeto a ho ya lokisa taba eo. E, ke tseba ho se bua ntate, ke moshemane wa lekeisheneng. [Ditsheho.] (Translation of Sotho paragraph follows.) [Hon Minister, I am very delighted to hear you talking about hostels. There is a complaint here regarding hostels and houses in Dobsonville, Bram Fischer and Meadowlands, for example. However, there are 5 000 houses in Bram Fischer, which only took the department two and a half years to build. But a look at the Meadowlands hostel shows that there are 3 500 places, but it took the department about four years to complete. I think that I am personally pleased by your words that they should embark on special trips to go and take care of that matter. Oh yes, sir, I can express myself in that language, because I am a township boy. [Laughter.]]
There is a misconception that all IFP members are from KwaZulu-Natal. Finally, I want to quote the Prince of KwaPhindangene, the Minister of Home Affairs, when he spoke in the state of the nation address. He stated as follows:
I cannot be satisfied with what we have achieved, great as it is, and must wonder whether, in addition to the many right things we have done as Government, we have not erred in other respects. After all, to err is human.
As the IFP we believe that the department has taken a good step in the right direction and therefore support the Budget Vote. [Applause.]
Mrs M P COETZEE-KASPER: Chairperson, Minister and members, I welcome our new chairperson Zoe Kota, after we worked so well with our ex-chairperson, Nomatyala Hangana. She will get all our support; she can ask the Minister!
One can ask who is Servcon? And where is Servcon? I just want to sketch a small picture here. Servcon was launched in 1995 to 1997 in terms of the 1994 record of understanding at the Botshabelo Housing Conference.
In 1998 het ons die tydperk verleng, en so ook die mandaat vir die volgende agt jaar, sodat dit alle bankeiendomme, asook die wanbetaling van verbandhouers, kan afhandel. Die ooreenkoms was dat alle ooreenkomste tussen die banke en die eienaars binne die tydperk van twee jaar opgelos moes word, maar in 1998 het ons dit verder verleng met die ondertekening van ‘n notule van ooreenkoms. Hierdie ooreenkoms het verder plek gemaak vir mense wat nog nie met Servcon onderhandel het nie.
Dit is waar die misverstand ontstaan het onder die eienaars en sekere leiers. Daar is van ons leiers in hierdie Huis wat maak asof hulle nie weet dat Servcon bestaan nie. Daar is leiers in hierdie Huis wat die mense mislei, wat nie die mense die regte antwoorde gee nie. Ons minister comrade Sankie Mthembi se deur staan altyd oop. As agb lede iets nie weet nie, kan hulle haar gerus bel. Hulle sal die antwoorde kry oor waar Servcon is en hoe Servcon werk.
Daar was nie genoeg terugvoering en inligting oor die keuses wat die eienaars kon maak nie. Daar was nie huise beskikbaar vir regskaling nie. Hierdie mense het nie die waarde besef van wat Servcon hulle aangebied het nie, deurdat hulle ‘n minimum van R70 per maand kon betaal om hulle eie huis te huur - wanneer ‘n mens kyk na gewone paaiemente van R2 500, is R70 per maand baie min - met ‘n jaarlikse verhoging van minstens R20 per maand oor ‘n tydperk van drie tot vier jaar as hulle die herkoop- of leningsveranderingsopsie sou kies. Hierdie opsies het ons mense nie gevolg nie, en ek praat nie net van swartmense nie, maar deur die bank van wit en swart.
Die regskaling was bedoel vir gevalle waarin die eienaar ‘n huis kon identifiseer wat voldoen het aan die subsidievereistes, en dan sou Servcon dit vir hulle koop met die subsidiegeld, maar die probleem wat ons mense het, is ons tradisie. Ek woon byvoorbeeld 10 jaar lank in my huis, en ek gaan nie trek nie, of ek is dalk gewoond aan ‘n buitensporig groot en gerieflike huis, en ek sien nie kans om onder te begin met ‘n viervertrek- huis nie. Dit is wat ek in die Matjabeng-Letjweleputswa-streek ondervind het.
Ander mense het geweier om een van bogenoemde voorvereistes na te kom, en sodoende het daar regstappe teen hulle gevolg. Die ander gevalle is waar die oorspronklike eienaars nie meer in die huis woon nie, maar dit aan iemand anders verhuur en sodoende nie vir die lening betaal nie. Hier het Servcon dan die inwoner die kans gegee om die huis direk te huur met die opsie om te koop. Dit wou die huurder ook nie doen nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[In 1998 we extended the period, and also the mandate for the next eight years, so that it could finalise all bank properties and defaulting by bond holders. The agreement was that all agreements between the banks and the owners had to be resolved within two years, but in 1998 we further extended it by signing a minute of agreement. This agreement furthermore accommodated people who had not yet negotiated with Servcon.
This is where the misunderstanding arose among the owners and certain leaders. There are some of our leaders in this House who pretend not to know about Servcon’s existence. There are leaders in this House who mislead the people, who do not give people the right answers. The door of our Minister Comrade Sankie Mthembi is always open. If hon members do not know something, they are welcome to call her. They will get the answers as to where Servcon is and how Servcon works.
There was inadequate feedback and information about the choices that owners could exercise. There were no houses available for purposes of right- sizing. These people did not realise the value of what Servcon was offering them in that they could pay a minimum of R70 per month to rent their own house - when one looks at ordinary payments of R2 500, then R70 per month is very little - with an annual increase of at least R20 per month over a period of three to four years if they were to choose the re-purchase option or the changed loan option. These options our people did not utilise, and I am not talking only of black people, but of everyone, white and black.
The right-sizing was intended for cases in which the owner could identify a house complying with the subsidy requirements, and then Servcon would have bought it for them with the money from the subsidy, but the problem with our people is our tradition. I, for example, have been living in my house for 10 years, and I am not going to move, or perhaps I have grown accustomed to living in an exceptionally large and comfortable house, and I do not see my way clear to starting at the bottom with a four-roomed house. This is what I found in Matjabeng-Letjweleputswa Region.
Others refused to comply with either of the aforementioned pre-requisites, and in so doing legal steps were taken against them. The other cases are where the original owners are no longer living in the house, but are renting it to someone else and therefore do not pay the loan. Here Servcon gave the inhabitant the chance to hire the house directly with the option of purchasing it. This the person renting the house did not want to do either.]
It seems as though our people do not want to improve their standard of living because they listen to wrong leaders who misinform them at all times, at all costs. As the ANC Government we do not just implement the laws and legislation. Thorough discussions and negotiations with all stakeholders took place for a period of more than three years, before agreeing to all the various options. All the stakeholders, like the tripartite alliance and Sanco, agreed to these options. I want to repeat, all stakeholders, the tripartite plus Sanco, agreed to these options. This is because we do not want to see a moral degeneration of our nation. Black and white South Africans, here is a chance to have a house, even if it is smaller than what one obtained whilst employed or when one is more financially secure. The time is passing, get on the train.
Unemployment and poverty also play a major role, but Servcon has come up with yet another programme of poverty alleviation. This entails gardening, cleaning services for our communities, bakeries and crèches, so that the owners of the houses could improve their lives and also pay for services rendered by the council. The other problem is a lack of financial management. Instead of paying the rent and for services, our people are spending the money elsewhere. This culture of nonpayment must be reversed.
The second housing institution is in Ithubelisha. This is part of the department and Servcon’s plan to ensure that there are houses for people when relocation and rightsizing are exercised. This is the best, but do our people want to make use of this programme? No, they are moving back illegally, as in my previous analysis. Yet, whilst Thubelisha takes the people from the Servcon portfolio, they will receive serviced houses with a clearance certificate removing their names from the ITC, and they will become the lawful owners of these houses. If this is not acceptable, then what is?
Die ander probleem is die verdwyning van die meeste vrouens se mans. Dit is ‘n aspek wat dringend aandag moet kry, omrede dié vroue wat agtergelaat is, nie kan kwalifiseer vir hervestiging nie. Hierdie probleem is net so ‘n groot kopseer vir kindertoelae. Die mans van vandag hardloop weg van hulle verantwoordelikhede en gaan produseer nog ekstra kinders by ander vrouens. Die rede waarom ek hieroor praat, is omdat sommige vrouens ook net so skuldig is. Hierdie vrouens gee voor dat hulle mans die hasepad gekies het, maar dan werk die mans in die naburige dorpe en stede en stuur geld huis toe. Hierdie is ‘n sosiale mentaliteit omdat hulle dan van beide kante voordeel trek, deur van die Regering hulp te kry en steeds finansiële ondersteuning van hul mans te ontvang. Daar is uitsonderings, maar wat doen ‘n mens in die geval waar hierdie tipe bedrog gepleeg word? Wat sê die wet?
Ons kry nou weer ‘n nuwe behuisingsinstansie met die naam Social Housing Foundation. Hierdie instansie sal verseker dat ons mense se lot verlig word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[The other problem is the disappearance of the husbands of most of the women. This is an aspect that urgently requires attention, because these women who are left behind do not qualify for relocation. This problem is just as big a headache in respect of child grants. The men of today run away from their responsibilities and produce more children with other women.
The reason that I am talking about this is because some women are just as guilty. These women pretend that their husbands have left them, but in the meantime the men are working in neighbouring towns and cities and sending money home. This is a social mentality, because they benefit from both ends by receiving assistance from the Government while also receiving financial support from their husbands. There are exceptions, but what does one do in the case where this kind of fraud is committed? What does the law say?
We are now once again getting a new housing institution called the Social Housing Foundation. This institution will ensure relief for the plight of our people.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, your time has expired.
Mrs M P COETZEE-KASPER: Knowledge and ``mali’’. We do not want lazy people here. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mnr C B HERANDIEN: Mnr die Voorsitter, dit is tradisie in hierdie Huis dat wanneer iemand sy of haar nuwelingstoespraak maak, hy nie kontroversieël gaan optree nie - en ek beloof om by daardie tradisie te hou.
Dit skyn of die Minister en ek oor weinig verskil. Ek wil haar gelukwens met ‘n goeie begrotingstoespraak, veral waar sy klem lê op die kwantitatiewe aspek dat ons nou, nadat die 1,325 miljoen huise voltooi is, vir beter kwaliteit sal gaan. Die groot gros mense in die middelinkomstegroep, wat oor die laaste ag jaar byna nie aandag geniet het nie, gaan nou aandag kry.
Ons is natuurlik almal dankbaar vir die verhoging in die subsidies. Dit is lank reeds nodig dat die subsidies aangepas word, as in gedagte gehou word dat die materiaalpryse reeds vanjaar met 45% gestyg het. Aan die ander kant wil ek graag hê die Minister moet vir ons absolute duidelikheid gee oor wat presies die posisie gaan wees met betrekking tot provinsies soos die Wes- Kaap, Gauteng en KwaZulu-Natal, wat in die verlede as gevolg van geotegniese omstandighede ‘n addisionele aanvulling van 15% ontvang het. Gaan dit steeds die geval wees met die verhoogde subsidie om hierdie drie provinsies in dieselfde posisie te plaas as die res van die land?
Iets wat daadwerklik aandag moet geniet, is weer eens die opstel van waglyste. Dit is ondenkbaar dat ons, wanneer daar ‘n verkiesing is, vir die hele land kieserslyste kan opstel, maar by die plaaslike owerhede is daar skielik geen kapasiteit om waglyste op te stel nie. As ons daardie euwel kan uitroei, en seker kan maak dat mense registreer by behuisingskantore, is dit nie nodig dat mense moet kom en kla dat hulle vir die laaste twee jaar wag vir ‘n huis nie.
As hulle ongelukkig voel, kan agb lede hulle indink hoe die mense moet voel wat die afgelope 15 tot 20 jaar reeds wag vir wonings. Wat ook verblydend is, is die Minister se ferm houding met betrekking tot die kontantbydrae wat mense moet maak. Dit op sigself sal verhoed dat mense nie so maklik meer van hul gratis wonings ontslae raak nie en dat hulle sal besef dat dit hul enigste en grootste belegging ooit sal wees.
Ietwat onduidelik en waarop ons graag antwoorde sal wil kry, is dat dit volgens die Minister op 1 April in werking tree. Daarmee het ek nie ‘n probleem nie. Die vraag is egter: As ons dit nou rigied gaan toepas soos dit moet, sal dit nie in die toekoms die behuisingsleweringsproses ietwat vertraag nie? Want deur R100 per maand te spaar, sal dit iemand 24 maande neem om die R2 479 te spaar. Ons sal in gesprek moet tree, sodat ons ‘n voortdurende vloei van behuisingslewering kan aanspreek en ‘n meganisme vind hoe om daar verby te kom.
Wat egter die heel interessantste en opwindendste is in die Minister se toespraak, is dat die Kabinet in Desember verlede jaar ‘n addisionele R27 000 per verbruiker goedgekeur het, bo en behalwe die R18 000 wat die normale subsidie sal wees.
Dit bring my by iets waaroor ek redelik opgewonde is, want hoe is dit moontlik dat ons in die ware sin van die woord kan begin met institusionele behuising? Bitter min mense is bewus daarvan en ek wil met die vorige spreker heelhartig saamstem dat die groot probleem in behuising die waninformasie is wat na buite gaan, wat mense verwar en verwagtinge skep. Ons praat van geïnstitusionaliseerde behuising en ons moet dan onmiddellik vir mekaar sê, dit is gemik op mense wat nie kwalifiseer vir die maksimumsubsidie as gevolg van die inkomstegroep waarin hulle val en wat andersins ook nie kwalifiseer vir verbande by banke nie. Dit sal hierdie mense in staat stel om ‘n dak oor hul koppe te kry. Die mooiste van alles is dat in veral die groter stede waar behuisingsgrond redelik skaars begin raak, dit ons in die posisie sal stel om beskikbare behuisingsgrond optimaal te benut.
Die ander groot voordeel van institusionele behuising, is natuurlik dat die betaling van belasting en dienstegelde daardeur gewaarborg word. Baie opwindend is dat dit welvaart en werksgeleenthede skep vir mense. Die maksimale benutting van die privaatsektor se bydrae kan hierdeur ook bydra dat werkgewers en veral ook vakbonde hul bydrae lewer om mense van beter huisvesting te voorsien.
Laaste maar nie die minste nie, is die heel opwindendste binne die institusionele behuising: Die geleentheid word geskep dat huiseienaars die nodige opleiding kry om hul volle verantwoordelikheid as huiseienaars te aanvaar en te besef dat hulle eienaars is en self na hul instandhouding moet omsien.
As ons na institusionele behuising kyk - en ek weet die Minister is ook ten gunste daarvan - het ons twee kategorieë, naamlik institusionele huureenhede, of soos die mense in die Engelse sleng dit stel, ``stay for as long as you pay’’. Dit gee vir mense wie se omstandighede verbeter en wat verkies om nie in daardie addisionele wonings te woon nie, die geleentheid om dertig dae kennis te gee en te gaan en te trek waarheen hulle verkies.
‘n Tweede aspek wat ook vir ons noodsaaklik is, is natuurlik die
paaiementverkoopsbenadering, of instalment sales approach''. Hierdie is
'n opwindende nuwe konsep binne die institusionele behuising, waar die
verbruiker - en ek hou van die Minister se nuwe uitdrukking van housing
consumers’’ - by die verkoopskema inskakel, hy of sy vir die eerste vier
jaar ‘n vaste paaiement betaal, wat op sigself weer die voordeel het dat
mense leer om finansieel hul eie sake beter te bestuur. Wat die
wonderlikste van alles is, is dat ná vier jaar hierdie mense bewys gelewer
het aan finansiële instellings en aan ander instansies dat hulle
kredietwaardig is en ‘n goeie kredietrekord opgebou het.
Die een aspek waaraan ons vinnig aandag sal moet gee, is die snel verstedeliking en dat ons dan sal kyk na minder formele vestiging, waar ons in situ opgradering oor ‘n tydperk van drie jaar kan laat plaasvind. Dit sal dan die geleentheid gee dat ons die beskikbare subsidies oor ‘n tydperk soos en met die MTEF kan rek en sodoende meer mense van behuising kan voorsien. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr C B HERANDIEN: Mr Chairperson, it is a tradition in this House that when someone makes his or her maiden speech they do not act controversially
- and I promise to keep to that tradition.
It appears that the Minister and I do not differ on much. I want to congratulate her on a good speech, particularly where she emphasised the quantitive aspect that now after the 1, 325 million houses are completed, we will aim for better quality. The average man in the street in the middle- income group, who has had virtually no attention over the past eight years, will now receive attention.
Of course we are all grateful for the increase in the subsidies. For a long time it has already been necessary for the subsidies to be adjusted, if one bears in mind that the cost of materials has already risen by 45% this year. On the other hand, I would like the Minister to give us absolute clarity about precisely what the position will be with regard to provinces like the Western Cape, Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal, which in the past received an additional supplement of 15% as a result of geotechnical circumstances. Will it still be the case with the increased subsidy to place these three provinces in the same position as the rest of the country?
Something which must receive decisive attention is, once again, the drawing up of waiting lists. It is unthinkable that, when there is an election, we can draft voters’ rolls for the entire country, but there is suddenly no capacity in the local authorities to draw up waiting lists. If we can eradicate that evil, and make sure that people register at housing offices, it will not be necessary for people to come and complain that they have been waiting for a house for the past two years.
If they feel unhappy, one can imagine how the people must feel who have already been waiting for dwellings for the past 15 to 20 years. What is also heartening is the Minister’s firm attitude with regard to the cash contribution which people have to make. This in itself will prevent people getting rid of their free dwellings so quickly and they will realise that this will be their biggest and only investment ever.
Something which is somewhat unclear and to which we would like to receive answers, is that according to the Minister this comes into operation on 1 April. I do not have a problem with that. However, the question is: If we are now going to apply this rigidly, as should be the case, will this not delay the housing delivery process somewhat in the future? Because by saving R100 per month, it would take someone 24 months to save the R2 479. We will have to have discussions, so that we can address a constant flow of housing delivery and find a mechanism to get past that.
However, what is most interesting and most exciting in the Minister’s speech, is that in December last year the Cabinet approved an additional R27 000 per consumer, above and beyond the R18 000 which will be the normal subsidy.
This brings me to something which I am fairly excited about, because how is it possible for us to be able to begin with institutional housing in the true sense of the word? Very few people are aware of this and I would like to agree wholeheartedly with the previous speaker that the big problem in housing is the misinformation which goes out there and confuses people and creates expectations. We are talking about institutionalised housing and we must then immediately say to one another that it is aimed at people who do not qualify for the maximum subsidy as a result of the income group in which they fall and who otherwise also do not qualify for bonds at banks. It will enable these people to have a roof over their heads. Best of all, particularly in the bigger cities where land for housing is starting to become fairly scarce, is that it puts us in a position to utilise available housing land optimally.
The other big advantage of institutional housing is, of course, that the payment of tax and service fees is guaranteed in this way. What is very exciting is that it creates prosperity and job opportunities for people. The maximum utilisation of the private sector’s contribution can in this way also contribute to employers and particularly trade unions making their contribution to providing people with better housing.
Last but not least, is the most exciting aspect within institutional housing: The opportunity is created for home owners to receive the necessary training to accept their full responsibility as home owners and to realise that they are owners and must see to maintenance themselves.
If we look at institutional housing - and I know that the Minister is also in favour of this - we have two categories, namely institutional rental units, or as people put it in English slang, stay for as long as you pay. This offers people whose circumstances improve and who prefer not to live in those additional dwellings the opportunity to give thirty days’ notice and to move to where they prefer to be.
A second aspect which is also essential to us, is of course the instalment sales approach. This is an exciting new concept within institutional housing in which the consumer - and I like the Minister’s new expression of ``housing consumers’’ - joins the sales scheme and pays a fixed instalment for the first four years, which in itself has the benefit that people learn to manage their own financial affairs better. What is wonderful about all this is that after four years these people have proven to financial institutions and other institutions that they are creditworthy and have built up a good credit record.
The one aspect that we will have to give attention to very shortly is the rapid urbanisation and we will then look at less formal settlement, where we can allow in situ upgrading to take place over a period of three years. This will then give us the opportunity to be able to stretch the available subsidies over a period such as and with the MTEF and in this way provide more people with housing. [Applause.]]
Mr G D SCHNEEMAN: Chairperson, Comrade Minister, comrades and hon members, may I first take this opportunity to congratulate the hon Herandien on his maiden speech. Congratulations!
Throughout the ages humankind has sought to house itself in adequate shelter, which shelter would protect them from the elements, keep them warm in winter and cool in summer; adequate shelter which would maintain their human dignity and pride.
The housing delivery programme of the ANC-led Government has achieved this. Adequate shelter has been provided to over 1,3 million beneficiaries, providing protection from the elements, giving warmth in winter and providing shade in summer.
Each person, whether young or old, who has benefited from the housing delivery programme has had their human dignity restored and can again feel proud of the home which they live in.
According to recent findings of the SA Advertising Research Foundation’s All Media & Product Survey, the lives of most South Africans have been steadily improving since the 1994 elections, due mainly to the delivery of basic services by Government of water, sanitation and electricity.
The survey also indicates that in 1994, 64% of South Africans owned their own homes, and that this had increased to 77% in 2001. According to leading economists … [Interjections] … Standard Bank, the findings indicate that Government has been doing its job. Let me repeat that: The findings indicate that Government has been doing its job - I direct this to hon Semple.
Recently the Minister of Housing, Comrade Sankie Mthembi-Mahanyele announced a change in the subsidy scheme. There are three main changes. Firstly, the subsidy increases to R20 300. Secondly, beneficiaries would be required to contribute an amount of R2 479 through savings schemes which would be added to the new subsidy amount. However, this does not apply to old-age pensioners, the differently abled and the indigent, who will receive the full subsidy. Thirdly, those who are not able to save would be required to participate in the construction of their new homes through the People’s Housing Process.
We are moving away from the beneficiary system in which people sit back and wait for Government to deliver to a participatory system in which people actively participate and work with Government in the housing delivery programme. The contribution of R2 479 will go towards increased quality standards, such as an increase in the overhang of the roof.
An exciting new development is that the National Home Builders Regulatory Council will now inspect each subsidy home before it is accepted from the builder. The inspection will be focused on the quality construction of the house. This will ensure that a high level of quality construction is attained and maintained.
In this regard I would like to propose that when the NHBRC inspectors inspect the house that they also inspect the house to ensure that the minimum standards as laid down in the housing code had been adhered to. This will ensure that all required standards are met and that developers and builders do not build substandard homes.
We expect developers and contractors to deliver nothing but the very best, a product that is of the highest quality and standard. The message we bring to developers and contractors is that they should not see the housing delivery programme as a means of self-enrichment. They need to see themselves as playing a role that will enrich the lives of those for whom they are building new homes.
A national savings scheme is to be developed and promoted to encourage people to start saving on a monthly basis towards the building of their new homes. Some banking institutions have indicated their willingness to participate. But there is a need for all banking institutions to recognise the power of the poor. They need to recognise that the poor are a market that needs to be invested in and serviced.
The poor of the world are able to save, and they do save. The poor of the world are able to service their laon repayments, and they do. We therefore call on the banking institutions in South Africa to reach out to the poor of our land, and to make their services easily accessible and more affordable.
The People’s Housing Process, or PHP, is in my mind one of the most exciting aspects of the housing delivery programme. The Minister of Housing has announced that 10% of the housing budget would be allocated to the PHP in future. The PHP sees communities coming together in helping to build their own homes. They are trained on how to build and are assisted through the entire process.
The final product that is achieved provides homes that are bigger and, in many instances, of a higher standard of quality than those built by developers. The PHP saves on labour costs and building material costs. Often second-hand building material, such as window frames and doorframes, are used.
During the past three years the housing portfolio committee has visited all nine provinces, and, for me personally, the highlight of each of those visits has been the people’s housing projects which we have visited. I have seen homes of up to 80m2 being built using the current subsidy amount before the increase that has been announced … [Applause] … homes which consist of two to three bedrooms, a lounge-cum-dining room, a kitchen and a bathroom.
The PHP captures the spirit of Letsema; it captures the spirit of voluntarism. I would like to echo a call that I made in this House during last year’s Budget Vote, calling upon all South Africans to get involved and help: the PHP provides this very opportunity. One does not have to be a builder, but one can push a wheelbarrow, pass bricks, mix cement and paint a house. [Applause.]
I would like to suggest to the hon Minister that when a PHP project is started in an area, an invitation should be sent out to church groups, religious institutions, youth groups and business chambers, among others, inviting them to come and help and actively participate in the construction of a better country and a better world. The PHP gives each South African the opportunity to lend a helping hand in helping to push back the frontiers of poverty.
A further area that I want to focus on is the economic sustainability of our housing developments. Whilst the housing development programme has positively impacted on over 5 million people throughout our country, one of the challenges that we face are the levels of rising unemployment in households. The impacts of this are many: from not being able to put food on the table, to paying for services and buying basic necessities. The challenge of job creation is not only a challenge for Government or the private sector, but also for the country. It is a challenge for each and every South African to overcome. Our housing developments need to consist of not only houses, but also community halls, police stations, schools, parks and sports fields, all of which help to create vibrant and active communities.
We must ensure that new housing developments are built close to identified areas of economic growth, and that there is available and easy access to transport. We need centres in which economic activity can take place and aspiring entrepreneurs can be given the opportunity to start plying their trade. In this regard I am suggesting that we urgently investigate the provision of a shopping complex in each new housing development.
At a local level there is a need for the private sector and the public at large to volunteer to assist community members in identifying job creation projects, to assist them in providing training on how to run their businesses, to monitor their progress and to help ensure that the frontiers of poverty are pushed back. This is yet another opportunity for South Africans to embrace the spirit of Letsema.
In conclusion, as members of the housing portfolio committee we have all experienced the joy of millions of our people whose lives have been positively changed. For millions of people the ANC slogan ``A better life for all’’ has become a real and living experience. [Applause.]
Mr D G MKONO: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, the Budget Vote before us represents one of the most tangible aspects of Government delivery, namely housing. The UDM recognises that all basic human needs culminate in a proper shelter and, as such, it is the cornerstone of service delivery.
One must acknowledge that the department has achieved many significant goals in the past eight years. But we cannot ignore the fact that major problems and challenges remain. As far as the overall budget is concerned, it is good to see an improvement in the overall budget baseline. This increase, we believe, should be targeted at increasing individual housing subsidies.
The UDM welcomes the proposed increase in the housing subsidy, but now the department must show the willingness to turn this paper benefit into a real benefit for people on the ground. The sad truth is that the housing subsidy has not tracked inflation over the years, and this latest increase is more a question of catching up rather than additional value. The current subsidy is only barely adequate in some geographic areas. But where the terrain is not level or the ground is thorny, the costs soar and the subsidy simply does not meet the most basic of requirements.
It is therefore imperative that ways of increasing the subsidy is sought. In this regard, the UDM supports the People’s Housing Process as a method of stretching the subsidy, empowering the beneficiaries as well as broadening the choice of the beneficiaries. The estimates of the national expenditure for this Budget Vote refers to the People’s Housing Process as a programme under its strategic overview and key policy developments.
Unfortunately, it does not appear as a separate item in the department’s budget. I want to appeal to the Minister to remedy this situation in order for this crucial initiative to be reflected as a priority of this department in its budget.
Allow me to return to my opening remarks about housing being a cornerstone in the broader delivery context. To the UDM, poverty, unemployment and fragmented government policies are the three biggest reasons for people still being homeless. South Africa requires, in our opinion, a policy framework that advocates an integrated approach whereby housing policy falls within a larger economic strategy to create jobs in order to successfully combat and eradicate homelessness and poverty.
In the long term, Government should ensure that communities have access to jobs and infrastructure, not just housing. Having houses in communities without jobs, roads, schools, clinics, water and electricity simply does not address the needs of people, because these are things that make communities viable and sustainable.
It remains the firm conviction of the UDM that massive infrastructural development is required. Those who wish to disagree need only visit an informal settlement or rural village to observe for themselves the staggering shortage of infrastructure that daily affects the lives of the majority of the population. Aside from enabling vital service delivery, the job creation potential of massive infrastructure development must not be underestimated. The department’s involvement in the human settlement redevelopment programme and, as under programme three, the assistance of the department to other national departments to develop infrastructure policy, is a measure that we support.
These types of initiatives must be extended to encompass every effort of the Government. In effect, the presidential Urban and Rural Renewal Strategy must become a blueprint for all government activities. The UDM describes such an integrated strategy in its policy as ``planned sustainable development’’. We are convinced that the Department of Housing can meaningfully contribute within such an approach in the absence of …
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, your time has expired.
Mr D G MKONO: The UDM supports the Vote. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Ms S H NTOMBELA: Mr Chairperson, recently the President made a historic visit to our constituency. Something like this has never happened before, where the President of the country visited that area, and where our people were able to sit with him under the same roof, talk to him, and even touch him.
Those who could not ask questions during the imbizo gave letters, questions and notes to me to present to the President. Amongst the letters I received, one letter touched me. I want to read it to hon members so that they can fully grasp the plight which our people find themselves in.
Lengolo lena le baleha tjena:
Ho ntate Mbeki ya ratehang, Ke mohlolohadi ya nang le bana ba bane ba kenang sekolo. Ke dutse dipolasing dilemo tse fetang 25. Ka bokgutshwanyane, ke hlahetse dipolasing, ka sebetsa teng, ho fihlela monnaka a bea thoto ya ka thotobolong, a nthahela ka ntle jwaleka nyalasi. Ka ba ka hopola thothokiso eo re neng re hodiswa ka yona, eo ho neng ho etsuwa hore re e tsebe le ha re sa batle ho e tseba. Thothokiso ena e bitswa ‘Dumedisa Base’.
Dumedisa Base o tle o kgore,
O kgore makumane a wang tafoleng,
Tafoleng ya base ho tletse difonnora,
Difonnora ha se ho kgadisa,
Di kgadisa kafore e feta ka tsela.
Dumedisa Base o tle o ratwe.
O ratwe ke Base le Mmisisi foranteng,
Mmisisi a tle a o akgelle sekatana sa folere,
Base a akgelle lentwana la borukgwe,
Hohoba ka mpa fatshe o tle o ratwe,
Base a tshehe, a utlwe monate,
A be a bitse le Kleinbase atlo bona.
Lengolo lena le tswela pele le re:
Ntate Mbeki, ke di entse tsena tshole, ka diha seriti sa ka, ka hohoba fatse ka mpa, ka thabisa Kleinbase, hore Base a tle a nrate. Empa Base ha a ka ba a nrata le kgale. A ntebela polasing ya hae, a ntebela jwaloka ntja, a ntebela ke sena letho, ke sena le tjhelete kapa masenke a ho etsa mokhukhu. A ntebela hantle jwaloka nyalasi. A ntebela a re ke se ke qhwadile, ha ke sa na molemo. Ntate Mbeki, a lebala hoba ke hodisitse bana ba hae ka dilemo tse ngata. A lebala hoba difonnora tseo tse tafoleng di ne di phehwa ke nna ka dilemo tse ngata. Ka leba lekeisheneng, ka dula mokhukhung ka masenke ao ke a fuweng ke batho. Ka dula moo, ha pula e na, ke ne ke bula foro ka tlung hore metsi a tle a fete. Ke aneha dikobo hoseng ka lebaka la hore di netswe ke pula. Ke ne ke tshwana feela le motho ya dulang ka ntle sa kang a sebetsa letho. Joo! ka tla ka e senya nako ya ka ka ho dumedisa Base. Ke a o tshaba Base, wa tla ka wa mphoqa.
Ka 1994 ka dumedisa ANC, ka bona mehlolo, ka fumana ntlo ya RDP, 45 square metre, hela bo! e se yona feela, ahuwe mobung wa ka eseng wa Base. Ka fumana motlakase eo ke neng ke sa kgolwe hore nka of fumana bophelong ba ka bohle, ka bona mehlolo, mme Sanki a nketsa mohlolo. Ka thola ntlo e nang le nnang le ntlwana ka tlung, e nang le suriji, jwaloka ka yane ya Mmisisi. He, metsi kwana ha mongaka, ke ne ke tsamaya tsela e telele ke ilo a lata letamong, re nwa kaofeela, le dikgomo, le dikatse le dintja, jwalojwalo. Hona jwale, mohlolo o etsahetse, ke na le metsi ka tlung ya ka, e seng metsi feela, ha ke sa lata hole, ke na le metsi a hlwekileng. He! ka dumedisa Mme Sanki, mokhukhy ya eba toro ho nna. Ntate Mbeki, ke a o leboha. O fela o fetotse bophelo ba ka. Le nna ke motho kajeno. Ke ka hoo ke ikanang ke re, ha e le nna le ba ntlo ya ka, re tla dula re sebeletsa ebile re voutela ANC, ho fihlela re rwala mobu ka mpa. Mme Sanki, le ha ba ka bua puo tsa batho le tsa mangeloi, o lelale, o tswele pele, hoba o motjheng. O e tshwere, le ha ho na lemathata, mona le mane, feela ho e tshwara, o e tshwere. [Applause.]
Modimo a be le lona, Ntate Mbeki, re ntse re o rapella ka matsatsi ohle. Ke a leboha.
Ke nna Meriama Mokwena,
Mafahlaneng Tweeling.
[Mahofi.]
Modulaqhowa, ka mora ho bala lengolo lena, ke ile ka utlwa ke kenelwa ke thabo, ho bona hoba puso ena ya ANC, e fetotse maphelo a batho. Ha se rona ba buang, le ikutlwetse le lona hore le batho ba fatshe ba a bua. Kgweding tsa ho feta, ha re ne ntse re tsamaya diporofensing, ho na le dikontraka tseo re ileng ra di bona Mme Sanki, ho thwe ke dikontraka tsa basadi, empa e le diamborela feela. E le dikontraka tsa basadi tse thusang banna le bahatelli ba rona ho thola 10% ena eo o itseng e fumanwe ke basadi diporofensi kaofeela.
Ka bomadimabe ho ntse ho na le basadi ba tshabang, ba sa itshepeng. Empa ke kopa letona la rona, MMe Sanki, ho etsa bonnete ba hore, basadi ba a kwetliswa, ho tseba hore dithendara ke eng, le hore di tlatsuwa jwang. Basadi ba kwetliswe hore, bona ka bobona ba tsebe ho ikgahela matlo. Ebe dikontraka tsa bona, ba hire bontate e seng bontate ba hire bona. [Applause.] O a bona, MMe Sanki, ha re ka a etsa jwalo, e tla ba he, o e tshwere le ho feta pele. Le a tseba le lona hore ho na le puo e reng; Kwetliso ya mosadi, ke thuto ya setjhaba. Empa thuto ya kwetliso ya monna hangata, ke thuto ya monna a le mong.
Tsuonyana ha e bona phakwe e tla mane, sethole se pata ditsuonyana tsa yona, empa mokoko o ja fatshe.
Ha e nye bolokwe kaofeela. (Translation of Sotho paragraphs follows.)
[This letter reads thus:
To the honourable President Mbeki:
I am a widow and a parent of four schoolgoing children. I stayed on the farm for more than twenty-five years. I was actually born on the farm and I worked there until the day my employer decided to kick me out of work like a dog. Having said that, my mind was struck by a poem which we were brought up with, which was instilled in our minds, whether we liked it or not. This poem was entitled: “Say hullo to the boss”.
Greet the boss so that so that you can fill your stomach,
Fill your stomach with the bits of food that are falling from the
table,
The boss's table is filled with a variety of foodstuffs,
These foodstuffs are really mouthwatering,
They virtually attract you when you are passing by.
Greet the boss so that you should be favoured.
Be favoured by the boss and his wife on the verandah,
So that his wife can offer you her old flared skirt,
That the boss can offer you his old trousers,
Kneel down so that you should be favoured,
So that the boss can laugh and enjoy himself,
And even call his son to see for himself.
This letter continues as follows:
Honourable President Mbeki, I did all these things and destroyed my dignity. I knelt down and entertained the son of my master, so that my master could favour me. But he never favoured me. Instead he kicked me off his farm like a dog, poor as I was. I had no money or any corrugated material with which I could erect a shack. He kicked me out in exactly the same way as when a dog is kicked out. He kicked me out and told me that I was already crippled and useless. Honourable President Mbeki, my master forgot that I took care of his children for many years. He also forgot that the delicious food on the table was prepared and cooked by me, for many years.
I then headed for the townships and lived in a shack which I erected with the corrugated material which was offered to me by other people. I stayed there and during rainy days I would dig a furrow right inside the shack so that water could go through. I would hang our blankets on the washing line early in the morning because they would be wet as a result of the rain having rushed over them. There was no difference between me and a person who had no shelter at all, who had never worked towards something. Oh no! How I wasted my time by worshipping the master. My boss, how cruel you are! You disappointed me.
In 1994 I saluted the ANC and experienced miracles. I acquired a 45m2 RDP house. Hey, man, not only that! The house was built on my own site, and not that of the boss. I was provided with electricity, which was something I never thought I would acquire in my whole life. I really experienced miracles.
Ms Sankie performed miracles for me. The house featured a toilet inside, and a sewerage system exactly the same as the one belonging to the master’s wife. You know something, at my master’s place I had to walk a long distance in order to get water from a local dam. We used to share water with cows, cats, dogs and other animals. But now, a miracle has happened. I have water inside my house, and not only that, I no longer walk long distances in order to get it. I have clean water. Oh yes! I saluted Ms Sankie and the shack because a dream, a thing of the past happened to me.
Honourable President Mbeki, I would like to thank you. You really have changed my life. Today, I am also counted among people. That is why I take this vow and say: ``My family and I will serve and vote for the ANC until we die. Ms Sankie, no matter what they say, go on, because you are on the right track. You’ve got it right. Although there are problems here and there, the crux of the matter is that you’ve got it right’’. [Applause.]
May God bless you. Honourable President Mbeki, we are praying for you on a daily basis. I thank you.
Yours Sincerely Meriama Mkoena, Mafahleneng Tweeling.
[Applause.]
Honourable Chairperson, I felt grateful after reading this letter, realising that the ANC Government has changed people’s lives. It is not we who are speaking; you have heard for yourselves that even people at grassroots level are speaking. A few months ago when we were busy travelling through the provinces, Ms Sankie, we say some development construction companies which were said to belong to women. But we realised that they were just umbrellas. They are actually serving to help men who are our oppressors to gain the 10% which you meant to be gained by women in all the provinces.
There are unfortunately women who are still scared and who lack the necessary confidence. However, I would like to appeal to our Minister, Ms Sankie, to ensure that women are provided with training so that they should understand and have knowledge about tenders and the manner in which they are completed. Women must be trained so that they can build houses for themselves. They must be able to own these construction companies. [Applause.]
Should we be able to do that, Ms Sankie, it would mean that we’ve got it right, even more than ever before. You should know about the saying that goes: ``Training a woman represents national education’’. But training a man in most cases represents training for an individual man. When the hawk comes its way, a hen hides its chicks under its wings but the cock runs away.
I thank you!] Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Mr Chair, hon Minister, life, liberty and the right to own property is an inalienable right. Every man has the right to own property and be able to build a home in order to have security and shelter to protect his or her family.
Housing is identified as one of the visible deliverables of government and is used to measure the success of government. With the exorbitant prices of private land, Government is unable to purchase land to make it available for development. The question is: How much land does the Government own? Although there is not a clear register of all state land, central Government, parastatals and other quasi-Government organisations hold about one third of land in South Africa.
The rapid release of land for development must be identified in order for the various programmes and projects for housing deliverables to be realised. It is commendable of Government to have approved and built 1,3 million housing units, but there is still a vast backlog, with ever increasing numbers in informal settlement and the yearly increase in costs of building materials, as well as the high increase in unemployment. It is unrealistic to maintain the R16 000 subsidy, and I would like to thank the Minister for the good news that it is increased to R20 000. I am sure most people will be happy to hear that. However, if homeowners are encouraged to save and contribute toward the cost more people can be assisted.
The People’s Housing Process is one of the successful programmes, in that homeowners, through sweat equity and savings, are able to build a house according to their needs. This had developed a sense of pride and achievement and produced a better product than conventional building methods.
One of the policy issues of the 2001 Cabinet’s lekgotla - and it is what the ACDP has always advocated in this House - is that appropriate models for the development of traditional housing must be found. This, coupled with own contribution and saving, will instil a culture of ownership, thereby removing the culture of dependency on Government. Homeowners will be less likely to sell their houses, or be conned or swindled by gangsters, drug lords or speculators out of their property.
Government needs to focus more on an integrated development plan for housing. Instead of building houses in clusters, Government should rather develop sustainable rural and urban settlements that will improve the socio- economic opportunities of each settlement. This is where a great concern is.
I think Government should come up with a clear policy and must devise it to address the impact of HIV/Aids on housing. In South Africa we know we are facing a crisis and there are many households where one or both parents die of Aids and leave the family, especially the children, destitute. What happens is that people fall back into the cycle of homelessness. So, I want to thank the Minister for her speech today. [Applause.]
Ms M A SEECO: Mr Chairman, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, the UCDP stands to support the budget as placed before this House. We understand it in broader sense as well as of the economy of the Republic of South Africa. The South African Government is committed to reducing poverty and improving the quality of life of the people.
Housing has undergone fundamental changes. More than a million housing units have been built, providing more than 5 million poor people with shelter. According to the Minister of Housing, self-building has proved to be one of the most effective strategies in producing quality housing.
The Minister of Housing also plans to implement an emergency housing development programme to effect funding allocations without delay in order to alleviate emergency housing needs. Housing expenditure has been increased from R3 785 013 in 2001-02 to R4 244 800 in the current financial year. This allocation makes it one of the top ten votes in the overall budget, with 3,74% of the pie.
My concern is with the budget per programme. Does the department have an internal policy on HIV/Aids? How much has been budgeted for the policy and other HIV-related expenditure within the department?
Expenditure for this programme is expected to increase from R7,2 million in 2001-02 to R14,2 million in 2002-03.
The lack of capacity, which entails an efficient workforce and the installation of appropriate technology, equipment and systems for monitoring, evaluation and reporting purposes, is one of the major constraints in housing delivery. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mrs M S MAINE: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, in the Sowetan of 23 April 2002 there was an article on women, youth and people with disabilities in housing. The MEC of housing in the Limpopo province, Joe Maswanganyi, announced that they have allocated an estimated R179 million for the construction of low-cost housing to companies owned by women, youth and people with disabilities. He went on to say that youth who own construction companies will compete for tenders for the erection of low- cost housing from a pool of R88,1 million. Women contractors have been allocated R57 million and the disabled persons have been allocated R34,6 million.
Given all that, is it not saying that the ANC is definitely delivering and that it is not sexist, racist and discriminatory?
Ntletlelele ke dire kopo ya gore gongwe re tlhoka go dira phetogo mo makwalongkopo a di-subsidy, gore re nne le fa go bodiwang badiradikopo ba ba nnang le batho ba ba sa itekanelang mo mmeleng, bao go tlhokegang gore matlo a bone a kgone gonna botsalano mo go ba ba dirisang dikolwana kgotsa di-wheelchair. Gape fa modirakopo ka boene a wela mo go ba ba ke ba umakileng, a agelwe ntlo e e tlaa nnang le tsotlhe tse di tlhokegang, gore a itumelle ntlo ya gagwe kgotsa ya mo gabone.
Go botlhokwa thata gore baagi ba ba sa itekanelang mo mebeleng ba nne karolo ya go dira tshwetso e e amanang le kago ya matlo, gore ba tle ba bone gore go tlhokomelwa gore ditshwanelo tsa bona di a diragadiwa. Ba tshwanetse go rotloediwa gore ba tsee karolo mo dipuisanong tsotlhe tse di malebana le kago ya matlo.
Go bua ka baswa ke go bua ka isagwe ya naga ya rona. Fa re ka tlhoka go ba betlela tsela ka go ba ruta go nna le maikarabelo, re ka tsoga re sena setshaba se se nang le ponelopele. Re tlhoka go ba rupisa ka maitemogelo a tsotlhe tse re ka nnang le tsona. Ba tshwanetse go nna le seabe mo dikhampaning tse di tsayang karolo mo kagong ya matlo, segolobogolo gonne e tsoga e le bajaboswa ba matlo ao. Ka jalo, ba tshwanetse go tlhokomela gore ga re ba tlogelele boswa jo bo senang molemo mo isagweng ya bona.
Ka jalo, ke dira boikuelo mo di-MEC tse dileng fano gore di betlele baswa isagwe. Fokotsang botlhokakitso mo go bone. Fetolang botlhokatiro mo go bona. Fedisang botlhokatsebe mo go bone. Lwantshang go nyema mmoko mo go bone. Jalang mafolofolo mo go bone. Phatsimisang lesedi la maitemogelo mo go bone. Bonesang isago ya bona ka dikhampani tsa kago, gore ba tsoge e le bajaboswa ba ba itekanetseng. Tsotlhe tse, re di dire jaaka e le maikano a magolo a ANC a botshelo jo bo botokwa go botlhe. (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)
[Allow me to ask. Maybe we need to make changes to the application forms for subsidies so that there should be a column for those who stay with disabled people so that their houses should be user-friendly to those using wheelchairs. Again, if an applicant personally belongs to the category of persons that I have mentioned, a house which is user-friendly to his or her needs should be built so that he or she is pleased with it.
It is very important that disabled people should be part of the decision- making that concerns the building of houses, so that they can see that their rights are protected. They should be encouraged to take part in all discussions about the building of houses.
Talking about the youth is talking about our country’s future. If we should fail to show them the right way by teaching them to be responsible we would in future have a nation without foresight. We need to train them with all the experience that we have.
They should take part in construction companies that participate in the building of houses particularly, because they will inherit them. As such, they must ensure that we do not leave them with a worthless inheritance for their future.
I am appealing to the MECs present here to build a better future for the youth. Reduce their ignorance. Change their unemployment status. Stop their mischievousness. Fight their loss of hope. Inculcate in them a spirit of being active. Brighten up their future with building construction companies so that they may be healthy heirs. We must do all these things as the ANC’s biggest aim is that of a better life for all.]
With over one million housing subsidies granted and many of them either built or in construction phase, the South African Government has achieved much towards its aim of providing housing for people previously denied home ownership. However, parallel to these developments, over the past eight years HIV/Aids has reached a crisis point in South Africa. This epidemic is undermining development. To intercept the disease and find out about factors that either impede or encourage transmission and appropriate care require urgent attention at research, policy and implementation levels.
The built environment that shapes the psychological, social, cultural, health and safety features in a community could positively impact on the spread and treatment of the epidemic. The affordability and quality of houses and how they reflect integrated community living could contribute to minimising its spread. However, the current situation reveals that some housing projects are being developed in ways that do not support a healthy physical, social or economic environment. Thus, the multiple deprivations faced by poor households, many of whom also face the challenges of coping with HIV/Aids, are exacerbated as they wait for or live in inappropriately- designed houses. These factors severely undermine the quality of life of people living with HIV/Aids.
HIV/Aids has led to a breakdown of families and the functioning of households. This further undermines the housing policy assumptions. There is a growing crisis of children orphaned by Aids who are sent to live with elderly relatives who often support them from their meagre pensions, or orphaned children who are left to fend for themselves, which results in dire economic and social consequences. The impact that HIV/Aids has on households means that the manner in which the housing policy was intended to work no longer holds true. It is at this level that the impact of HIV/Aids is most directly experienced and where policies and action need to be responsive.
Tsotlhe tse, di raya gore kgwetlo ya Tona e godile. Tiro ya Tona e atile. Fela ka gore Tona e potapotilwe ke di MECs’ tse di mafolofolo mme di tlhaloganya maitlhomo a kgweeletso ya Mopresidente ya Letsema, o tlaa di etelela pele mme ga di na di wela ka lengope. Go Tona le ba bangwe ka re: ``Mmatla kgomo kodumela, o etse mmatla Sediba.’’ (Translation of Tswana paragraph follows.)
[All of this means that the Minister’s challenge has increased, but the fact is that the Minister is surrounded by active MECs who understand the President’s appeal of voluntarism, the Minister will lead them and they will not lead astray. To the Minister and others I say that she must persevere.]
Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, I would like to congratulate Zoe Kota on her speech and position as chairperson.
The Department of Housing has been tasked with an extremely challenging, demanding and difficult task from the outset. Noting the thousands of homeless and the constitutional declaration of the requirement to provide in the needs of people, the challenge was enormous. We have had major improvements and delivery has been made. However, media coverage of the success of the department has not been as prioritised as the negative aspects which cause a serious lack of confidence by the public in Government’s ability to deliver and fulfil the promises made. Though we are well past our second election, transformation is still gradually taking place. Results have been achieved and the expectancy for overnight deliveries is so ridiculous, after years of pitiful hardship.
The Ministry of Housing is complimented by the MF for the provisions that it has made to those previously houseless. We have recently noted an incident in KwaZulu-Natal where tenants unable to keep up with payments in housing which has been provided for them are being treated with kindness of being relocated instead of being evicted, as would be the treatment given by a private landlord. This serves as an example of the department’s dedication towards bridging the gap, and correcting injustices of the past with serious commitment to promoting social development in the country. However, though the department deserves a pat on the back, the reality of so many who are still homeless and in need of decent housing facilities is large. Immediate attention and co-ordination through a structured plan would serve to reduce these statistics.
The MF firmly supports the department’s aim to determine, finance, promote, co-ordinate, communicate and monitor the implementation of the housing policy and human settlement. It is felt that if the budget of R4 244 800 000 is wisely utilised, the results of delivery would be both visible and remarkable.
The MF voices its plea to roof the homeless, shelter the roofless and to protect our people as pledged. We welcome the launch of the recent allocation of houses for the homeless in KwaZulu-Natal and we would also like to encourage all role-players to actively participate in Vukuzenzele. [Applause.]
Mr J H NASH: Chairperson, it looks like I will never stop teaching. I have to teach people every day.
I would like to start off with my good friend, Ms Semple. She really needs a little bit of education. Firstly, I would like to point out to Ms Semple that this is not the first increase, but that it is the third increase. It was initially R15 000, then it became R16 000 and now it is R20 000. For her information, I would like to tell her that it has increased in the past five years. [Applause.]
Mr N S MIDDLETON: Considering inflation.
Mr J H NASH: Yes, considering inflation. If the member had read the Minister’s document, she would have noticed that the increase is now 26,87%. It is well above inflation. [Applause.]
The figure of 48,8% is well above inflation and 54% is also well above inflation. So, let me deal with the second point. Ms Semple asked what it is that we are going to do with those people in the People’s Housing Process who build substandard homes. If one is in the People’s Housing Process and builds one’s own home, is one going to build it in a substandard manner? [Laughter.] I have yet to see a home that is built by the People’s Housing Process that is substandard. In fact, the quality of those homes is way up there.
An HON MEMBER: Where?
Mr J H NASH: If that member wants to know, he should ask Ms Semple. She is going to tell him. [Laughter.] She was with me when she saw those homes. We were asked: Where are the poor people going to get the money from in order to pay for the extra R2 400? I would like to say that in South Africa there are stokvels which are run by poor people.
Ms R TALJAARD: [Inaudible.]
Mr J H NASH: Ms Taljaard would not know because she does not touch the poor areas. [Laughter.] She and her party are never there. So she would not know about these things.
An HON MEMBER: What about Buffalo Flats?
Mr J H NASH: Does that hon member want to know about Buffalo Flats? If he wants to know about Buffalo Flats, then I will tell him. The ladies there walk with huge dishes of cooked mielies selling it and shouting up and down the street: Umbona! Umbona! [Mielies!] [Applause.] That is what happens at Buffalo Flats. That does not happen in Port Elizabeth, no! [Laughter.] They only write about coconuts. [Laughter.]
We have to examine the construction of subsidy homes in the light of the different sizes and quality of homes in different provinces. Most of the big contractors are producing 30 square metre dwellings, while many are producing homes of 42 to 45 square metres.
On our provincial visits we saw homes of a mere 18 square metres. Really, what a shame! It is time that we as Government set down the minimun size of a subsidy home to at least 40 square metres. Why can a contractor in the small town of Barkly East build a home of 40 square metres with two bedrooms and a large open-plan lounge and kitchen, using bricks, while a large contractor in North West builds a single room with blocks, very lightly bagged, for the same amount of money? [Interjections.]
For Ms Semple’s benefit, both those contractors are white. So her attempts at saying that we are condemning white contractors is not true. We are condemning contractors that are exploiting the poorest of the poor. [Applause.]
When we challenged the construction and the material they used, the contractor said that it complied with the minimum standards of building regulations. In another scheme by the same contractor, a very expensive road was built to allow access to taxis and buses. [Interjections.] Once again, the money could have been used to improve the size of thoseÿ.ÿ.ÿ. [Interjections.] What did that hon member do in his time, while he was in Parliament? What did he do? He sat dead quiet, while houses were not being built. He sat dead quiet, but this Government has built 1,0 million homes. What did Mr Gibson’s party do except criticise? [Applause.] Mr Gibson’s party did nothing, except criticise.
An HON MEMBER: Who is responsible for the current situation?
Mr J H NASH: The hon member is asking who is responsible for the current situation. Does the hon member know what the current situation is? We have built 1 000 200 homes for homeless people. [Applause.] That is the current situation.
An HON MEMBER: Eighteen square metres!
Mr J H NASH: Eighteen square metres? Does that hon member know in which province that is? McIntosh’s province! [Laughter.]
I would like to apologise to Minister Sankie. [Interjections.] Why should I apologise when we have built homes? The hon member must apologise for sitting there, doing nothing but criticising! That is what should happen with Mr Gibson.
The SPEAKER: Order! Do you have a point of order?
Mr S D MONTSITSI: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: I am not quite sure if it is parliamentary for the two hon members on the other side, the hon Gibson and that other hon member, to engage the speaker on the podium with the type of extra energy that they seem to have at this stage. [Laughter.]
The SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, in the energy stakes, I think it was pretty equal. [Laughter.] But I do think you need to address the question that you are supposed to be debating. Would you please proceed.
Mr J H NASH: Madam Speaker, I would like to tell Minister Sankie that we as the committee feel that we should insist on the quality and size of homes. Mr G B D McINTOSH: Why don’t you?
Mr J H NASH: Listen. We are increasing the subsidy. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, I think you should allow the speaker to proceed with his speech.
Mr J H NASH: Oh, at last, they are asked to keep quiet. At last! [Laughter.] [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, I suggest you proceed with your text!
Mr J H NASH: Yes, but you must protect me! [Laughter.]
We are increasing the subsidy. Now we should consider the thermal efficiency of homes. In a pilot scheme of homes in Lady Grey in the Eastern Cape, we built four homes where we took into account their thermal quality. These homes are north-facing and have larger windows, as well as floor coverings and ceilings; the roof overhangs are longer so that the sun is kept out in summer, while in winter the rooms are protected.
These extra innovations cost an extra R3 000 per unit. The money was given by the Netherlands government and was very welcome as it has improved the quality of life of these people. [Applause.]
We say to contractors in South Africa, as well as the banks and other suppliers: Why can they not forget the profit motive and think of the quality of life of South Africans? I must hasten to say that we as the committee realised that contractors are there to make money. But we are asking them to share some of the profits for the social upliftment and improvement of the quality of life of those less fortunate. We ask them to go the extra mile.
Our latest policy shift is towards encouraging tenants to save. The banks can also help those customers when they want to improve their homes. Our people are saving. They say they want to know whether we do save. Of course we save. The stokvels are saving millions with banks. My question is: Are the banks giving some of those millions back to those people who save? The answer is no. In some cases, some of the banks are coming to the party. But our major banks also need to come to the party. They need to come to the party which says … [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Malibongwe, nyani malibongwe. Mme Ntombela, ke
kopa hore o kgutlisetse karabo ya lengolo le tswang ho Mme Mirriam Mokoena.
O mo jwetse hore ANC e re, Montsamaisa bosiu, ya nthusang ho rwala
mathata, ke mo leboha bo sele.' [Ditlatse.] [I salute you! Mrs Ntombela, I
would like you to reply to Mrs Merriama Mokoena's letter. Will you please
tell her that the ANC says: `I’d like to thank He who guides me through
darkness, He who makes me able to overcome my troubles, I’d like to thank
Him publicly.’’ [Applause.]] To those hon members who obviously do not have
the necessary information, I think we will assist them in that respect so
that they would be able to make meaningful and positive contributions.
I wish to tell the hon Semple and the hon Southgate that this Government started talking about integrated development about two and half years ago. One has to recognise the fact that integrated development requires high levels of co-ordination. At the same time, it has to be realised that when we came into office, we inherited a fragmented dysfunctional system of government. It also has to be realised that with all of these problems, we have really made huge strides. We have been able, in some of the projects, to co-ordinate, integrate and align our resources whenever there was a need.
However, it also has to be noted that currently Government talks of clusters, way down from director-general level to Minister and down to the provinces, because we are actually saying that we now have the opportunity to proceed in an integrated manner.
Initiatives in this respect have already been made. In medium-density housing, for example, in the new town precinct such as the Tsutsumani village in Alexander and other projects, Government has been able to co- ordinate their efforts. We put together our resources, our money, the NHFC as well, and we have been able to come up with projects that are sustainable. So it is not a new phenomenon.
Last Sunday, just the other day, we were honouring those of the developers and contractors who have been able to respond to the call for integration and innovation. We have been able to identify the Besters project in Durban, as well as the social housing projects in Gauteng, East London and Cape Town, which have actually gone the route of integration.
But we have also recognised the effort by the Van der Leij-Habitat project in East London. This reflects the integrated approach by Government. So it is something that we have already started doing and we are emulating.
Our programmes, the urban renewal and rural development nodes, are also a clear indication that that is the route we would like to take as Government. Of course, in terms of the subsidy we have always recognised the fact that we have to relate to inflation, and we have made the necessary adjustments.
Mr Nash is correct, we have had three increases. In 1999-2000 we increased the subsidy to R17 272; in 2000-01 to R18 694; and currently it is at R20
- So these are the kinds of issues that we have been looking at, because I think most of the people working in housing know the situation and understand the problems.
A question was also raised in relation to whether the National Home Builders Registration Council would have the capacity and ability to do the work which they have been asked to do. Yes, they can. They will have that ability and capability because we have put aside resources last year, R17,6 million, for them to deal with this issue, specifically the task that they are supposed to perform. So we have actually funded that exercise of making sure that that capacity is built.
We have also made sure that both the human capacity and the systems are upgraded, to assist them in ensuring that they now move into another area of responsibility, which is the RDP housing, because we have always said that we wanted to strive for good quality.
As for the issue of savings, I think Mr Nash raised a very important issue here. You see, people who are not involved in dealing with communities of the poor will never understand and will never know. Actually, they would never even envisage the kind of things that the poor people can do. I would like to inform the hon members that, way back in 1995, even before we enforced the question of people having to come forward with the R2 479, the poor were already saving on their own without anybody pressurising them. [Applause.]
For example, when the Department of Housing took from its budget an amount of R10 million to jointly manage with the SA Homeless People’s Federation, they had at that point already saved R234 000 on their own. So the poor do have integrity and pride. They do not want to be made to feel like helpless people who cannot do anything for themselves. So stop patronising the poor because they are ready. They are in the trenches and are building. They are the driving force behind the People’s Housing Process. [Applause.] And not those who are comfortable and pontificate about whether the poor can save or not.
However, what needs to be realised is that we are working on systems that are going to assist us to link those savings to our housing subsidy and, if possible, if we do get the appropriate response from the banks, we will be able to link up that chain back to the banks, ie those banks that are ready to work with us. We have been making investigations in this respect. So, we are planning to make sure that it does happen and does not just become a policy thrust and an approach, but does actually get to be developed and improved upon as a policy enhancing our efforts.
As for Ms Semple, batho ba Modimo [my God], in those projects where she finds that there are things that look a bit funny, she must realise that it is not because of our policy, but is because of those people who are not adhering to the policy. Our housing policy says - if I may assist her in this respect - we are going out there to deliver and work with the poor, to come up with a package that is total. We pay for the land and provide people with security of tenure. We connect the water, so that people can have clean water for health purposes and everything else. We connect the electricity and gravel the roads. [Interjections.]
We have asked the developers to make sure that we at least do have a shower in each house. And where she finds that this has not happened, it is not because of the policy. We are doing something about it and we do go back, assisted by the national consumer registration Act, to ask the developers to complete their construction. If they do not comply we have the power to scrap them from the roll.
As for who the inspectors are, in terms of what would be happening when we monitor RDP housing in making sure that we get the best quality, it is going to be up to the registration council, with the capacity that they have. In the past, it was the provincial housing teams that we set up, including the technical teams from the provincial departments who usually go out to make sure that the norms, standards and specifications are adhered to.
As for the planning, if one goes the integrated approach route, one would realise that it is going to include alignment of budgets, planning together and making sure that we do incorporate, in our settlements, total communities with all of the facilities that we have mentioned. It must also be remembered that it is going to be impossible for us to say that, if the Department of Local Government is ready to pursue a particular policy objective, they should not do that: they have to wait for housing to get ready before they do their work.
So one needs to understand that we have our settlements in the pattern in which they are simply because at that point we were ready to deliver and we wanted to make sure that we reduce the backlog to about a statistic of a million. We have achieved that and we are now into the second million. We are going to go back to our project, like we are going through our auditing, to make sure that we do complete the exercise of providing complete communities wherever Government has been able to invest. So it is not like it is all lost and forgotten, not at all. [Interjections.]
We do inspect. Where is the member who raised the issue? I am not sure whether he is servicing a constituency that needs my investigation. He is servicing the upper class community. [Interjections.] He is not!
As for HIV/Aids, we are conducting a survey, which is going to assist us to get the proper statistics, in the first place, and, secondly, to look at what the impact of HIV is going to be with regard to the housing demand. Thirdly, we are also going to make sure that within the Housing industry this issue gets the appropriate attention. Lastly, we are going to look at the comparative influence and impact of HIV on housing finance. And as soon as this investigation is done, we will be able to put together a policy.
However, on an ad hoc basis, those children who are without heads of households have been accommodated in structures, through the institutional approach, in KwaZulu-Natal. We have two projects in KwaZulu-Natal, one in Pietermaritzburg and another supported by an NGO in Mpumalanga. We might be having more, but I am talking about those projects that have a high profile.
We are taking care of these kids. But in the spirit of co-ordination, co- operation and an integrated approach, the Departments of Social Development, Housing and Health are jointly working on how we are going to align our budgets, for example, to make sure that such children do get their social grants and that their health is being taken care of, and, where necessary, also that Housing plays its role. So Government is seized with that situation.
Mr Herandien wanted to know whether the 15% geocheck consideration is going to apply with the increment. Yes, it is going to apply, no worries about that. We will be able to make sure that people do benefit because it is specifically set aside to make sure that difficult conditions, such as high water water levels, dolomite, etc, are taken care of. In the Western Cape, for example, there is the condensation problem. We have to set aside a specific allocation to make sure that we do deal with that problem because it is a climatic one.
The hon Mr Mkono is concerned that we do not have the People’s Housing Process as a separate programme. Hon members should please be aware of the fact that last year we took a policy decision that as soon as the provincial allocation is channelled to the provinces we expect the provinces to set aside 10% of their budgets for the People’s Housing Process. Feedback from the community indicates that more and more people want to go the route of the People’s Housing Process. So one can consider that a very specific and special project, which is being given and accorded the appropriate status it needs to be given by Government.
Lastly, I think we should come to a stage in this House where we begin to really consider very seriously the kind of contribution we want to make. The aim should not be to score political points, but for departments to assist hon members that are here to identify those problems that need our attention. If we do not utilise the time to make sure that as this House we do co-ordinate our efforts in order to address the needs of the poor, we are going to be left behind because the world has taken a decision at different fora, be it Nepad, the UN-Habitat or the UN General Assembly, that by the year 2015 we should have reduced the levels of poverty by at least half. I think that is a huge challenge, not just for those institutions, but for us in this House especially. Let us please use this time profitably and move away from unnecessary heckling. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The SPEAKER: Order! I wish to inform members that a candlelight ceremony will be held tomorrow at noon in the lobby of the National Assembly. This will be part of the National HIV/Aids - Share your vision for a better life campaign.
Debate concluded.
The House adjourned at 19:32. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
MONDAY, 13 MAY 2002
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
relevant committees as mentioned below:
(1) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Home Affairs and the Select Committee on Social Services:
(a) Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Electoral
Commission for 1998-1999, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 1998-1999 [RP 11-
2002].
(b) Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Electoral
Commission for 1999-2000, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 1999-2000 [RP 12-
2002].
(c) Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Electoral
Commission for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-
General on the Financial Statements for 2000-2001 [RP 13-
2002].
(2) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Housing and the Select Commitee on Public Services:
Strategic Plan of the Department of Housing for 2002-2004.
(3) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Public Works and the Select Commitee on Public Services:
Memorandum by the Minister of Public Works setting out particulars
of the Building Programme for 2002-2003 [RP 62-2002].
(4) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Education and the Select Committee on Education and Recreation:
Report of the Study Team on the Implementation of the National
Qualifications Framework.
(5) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Labour, the Portfolio Committee on Social Development and the
Select Committee on Finance. The Report of the Auditor-General is
referred to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for
consideration and report:
Annual Report and Financial Statements of the National Development
Agency for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General
on the Financial Statements for 2000-2001 [RP 28-2002].
(6) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Labour, the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and
Administration and the Select Committee on Labour and Public
Enterprises. The Report of the Auditor-General is referred to the
Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and
report:
Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Public Service
Sector Education and Training Authority for 2000-2001, including
the Financial Statements of Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements for 2000-2001.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister for Provincial and Local Government:
(a) Strategic Plan of the Department of Provincial and Local
Government for 2002-2005.
(b) Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Board for
Municipal Accountants for 2000-2001.
- The Minister of Public Enterprises:
Annual Report and Financial Statements of ESKOM for 2001.
- The Minister for Safety and Security:
Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Secret Services Account
for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2000-2001 [RP 30-2002].
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Assembly:
- Report of Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on Budget Vote 31: Trade and Industry, dated 8 May 2002:
The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry, having considered Budget
Vote 31, reports as follows:
Introduction
The committee examined the budget of the Department of Trade and
Industry (Vote 31) for the 2002/3 financial year as well as the forward
estimates for 2003/4 and 2004/5 included in the Estimates of National
Expenditure.
Main features
The main features of the 2002/3 budget are:
* The Department is allocated R2 468,6 million for the financial
year 2002/3, while forward estimates anticipate it receiving R2
627,0 million and R2 787,5 million in the years 2003/4 and
2004/5 respectively. This compares to the R2 214,6 million voted
in last year's budget which rose to R2 280,1 million in the
Adjusted Appropriation for 2000/1. The Department's budget for
2001/2 is broadly in line with last year's forward estimate for
2001/2 (which was R2 465,1 million), as is the amount
anticipated for 2003/4. The Department's budget can thus be
described as a constant budget with minor fluctuations.
* The 2002/3 budget is divided into six programmes, compared to
the previous five. These are: Programme 1, Administration, (6,9
% of the total), Programme 2, International Trade Development,
(2,7%), Programme 3, Enterprise and Industry Development, (33%),
Programme 4, Consumer and Corporate Regulation (5,4%), Programme
5, The Enterprise Organization (34%) and Programme 6, Trade and
Investment South Africa (18%). The programmes broadly correspond
to the Department's operational divisions.
* After growing for several years, the budget for Programme 1
stabilizes and in fact decreases slightly from R179,5 million in
the adjusted appropriation for 2001/2 to R169,6 million in
2002/3.
* The budget for activities falling under Programme 2 is stable
with R65, 9 million budgeted for 2002/3 compared to the R65, 5
in the Adjusted appropriation for 2001/2. The main activities
budgeted for under Programme 2 are multi-lateral and bilateral
trade negotiations, the promotion of African economic
integration and the activities of the Commission for
International Trade Administration (previously known as the
Board of Tariffs and Trade).
* The budget for Programme 3 is reduced slightly from R854, 3
million in the Adjusted appropriation for 2001/2 to R815, 1
million in 2002/3. Programme 3 is the Department's largest
programme and includes mostly transfer payments to associated
Council of Trade & Industry (COTII) institutions. The decrease
in expenditure in the present and previous budget year reflects
the normalization of expenditure following significant one off
transfer payments to re-capitalize Khula, initial start up
contributions to the National Empowerment Fund and increased
contributions to Namac, Proudly South Africa and THRIP.
* Programme 4's budget is increased from R96, 8 million to R134,
1 million. Some of the increase is accounted for by transfers to
the Companies and Intellectual Property Office (CIPRO).
* Programme 5's budget increases from R628, 1 million to R840, 2
million. 97% of the expenditure under this programme consists of
transfers under various business support programmes. The
increase is largely accounted for by anticipated better take up
of improved support programmes, and expenditure is expected to
rise further to R963, 8 and R1 021 million in 2003/4 and 2004/5.
* The budget for programme 6 is stable being R455, 8 million in
the Adjusted appropriation for 2001/2 and R443, 6 million in
2002/3.
* Transfer payments account for approximately 82% of the total
budget. A significant part of these transfer payments are made
to associated DTI "family institutions". There are 17 public
entities and 3 other bodies that report to the Minister of Trade
and Industry. These now participate in regular meetings of the
Council of Trade and Industry Institutions.
* The budget for 2002/3 can also be divided into the following
functional categories:
@ Transfer to associated COTII R690mn 28%
@ Institutions
@ Incentives and Offerings to
@ Business R1 320mn 53%
@ Human Resources R290mn 12%
@ Operations R170mn 7%
The amount for incentives and offerings to firms is up from the
approximately R1 billion in 2001/2.
* The Director-General indicated that new systems were being put
in place to promote greater efficiency in the use of
resources. Although these appeared to focus on minor
``housekeeping'' matters, they were part of a process of
getting the Department to operate faster, smarter and quicker
in delivering services. For example, an investigation by the
Department found that in the recent past 48% of incoming
telephone calls were dropped. This has now been reduced to
29%.
* The Department also reported further significant improvements
in organizational efficiency during 2001/2. For example, the
average time to register companies or close corporations at
the Companies and Intellectual Property Office (CIPRO) has
been reduced from 21 to 3 days.
* Once again, this year's budget includes in the Estimates of
National Expenditure a table of "output indicators" and
"targets" for Programmes 2-6. A feature of the Committee's
interaction with the Department this year was that we were
provided at our request, with a detailed Report on the extent
to which output and service delivery targets identified in the
2001/2 budget were delivered upon.
* The latter report, which the Committee regards as a major step
forward in its budgetary oversight, indicates that by and
large the Department attained most of the output targets
identified in 2001/2. The report also indicates that there
were improvements in organizational efficiency, corporate
governance and work environment.
* In terms of employment equity, the Department reported that it
had enhanced the Public Service Commission's targets of
achieving 50% equity by race and 30% by gender and set itself
a target of 80% equity by race and 50% by gender. We were told
that it had surpassed the latter targets, although there is
still a need to address the issue of gender equity in the more
senior grades.
* The improvement in the Department's record on spending observed
in 2000/1 was continued in 2001/2. There is now a reasonable
alignment of budgeted and actual expenditure with
underspending anticipated to be a little over 10% in 2001/2
(excluding some reductions and anticipated commitments to be
rolled over) compared to the more than 30% recorded before
1999.
* The Estimates of National Expenditure 2002 do not sufficiently
address the financial and resource transfers to provinces,
neither do they adequately reflect the impact of the
Department's spending in the various provinces. The Department
through a range of economic development agencies currently
funds and coordinates various economic programmes in the
provinces and local municipalities.
The Committee also had an opportunity, as in previous years, to engage
on budgetary issues with four of the DTI's associated institutions- the
Industrial Development Corporation, the Council for Scientific and
Industrial Research, Ntsika and Khula. Highlights of these discussions
included:
The Industrial Development Corporation (IDC)
* The IDC made 515 investment approvals worth R9, 3 billion
during 2001, more than double the amount in the previous year.
These assisted in the creation or sustaining of 20 000 job
opportunities and generated R10, 5 billion in additional
export earnings.
* The IDC is also extensively involved in projects elsewhere in
Africa. Over the past year it increased its African portfolio
from 30 projects in 9 countries to 47 projects in 16
countries. Approvals in other African countries total almost
R7, 6 billion since 1998.
* The Corporation reported further progress in its efforts to
promote Small and Medium Enterprise development as well as
Black Economic Empowerment. The proportion of approvals going
to empowerment companies was 33 % in 2001 compared to 27% the
previous year. By value, this represents around 16% of total
approvals. Although the Corporation does not directly service
the micro or very small business sector, it has taken some
steps to make its facilities available to smaller enterprises.
68% by value of its portfolio is with clients with an asset
base below R120 million.
* The IDC remains financially strong with capital and reserves of
R24, 4 billion (larger than any bank in the country). Its
involvement in two poorly performing steel projects-Columbus
and Saldanha- did, however, involve it in a capital loss. R5,
5 billion was injected into the restructuring of Saldanha and
its incorporation into Iscor. This restructuring is now
complete and Saldanha is now debt free, selling its products
on the domestic as well as export markets.
The Council for Scientific and Industrial Research
* The CSIR's annual turnover is R810 million, of which 60%
emanates from clients and contracts. The Council will receive
just over R300 million from government this year,
approximately the same as in the previous budget year.
* The CSIR participates in the COTII. The Council indicated that
together with the DTI a number of medium term objectives had
been agreed, including enhancing science and technology
contributions to industrial technology policy development,
raising awareness in industry of technological development,
contributing to development of SMMEs, BEE and access by women
to technology through its Technology for Women in Business
project. It also has 60 rural development projects, many in
poverty nodes identified by government.
* The CSIR is also involved in initiatives, projects and
contracts in 17 other African countries and is contributing
both to NEPAD and preparations for the World Summit on
Sustainable Development. It has also been awarded contracts by
major International Firms including Rolls Royce, Boeing,
Daimler Chrysler and the European Commission for two food-
related projects.
* The CSIR confirmed that the trend identified last year of
declining private sector involvement in Research and
Development (R & D) continues to be a cause for concern. We
were told that South Africa spends around 0,7% of its GDP on R
& D, much less than successful industrializing countries. Less
than half this comes from the private sector: Reasons which
the Council said were cited for this included:
1. Less attractive tax incentives for R & D in South Africa
than other jurisdictions.
2. The fact that incentive schemes such as SPII were based on
the matching grant principle meant that there was no real
incentive to begin completely new projects.
3. An environment that did not sufficiently encourage
university-based researchers to develop commercial
applications of their research.
Ntsika Enterprise Promotion Agency
* Ntsika is continuing to re-focus its activities away from its
previous main activity of accrediting service providers to a
demand driven provision of particular services to small
business. Its focuses will be on information provision,
training and advisory services.
* Ntsika is also carrying out a review of service provider
intermediaries it has worked with, and will be dis-accrediting
those that have not met defined performance criteria.
* Ntsika reported that from the time of its inception in 1996
until the end of 2001, it had supported 349 service providers,
trained 2 435 employees of service providers and developed 2
310 business links. Service providers trained or assisted over
100 000 entrepreneurs in over 79 000 enterprises. Jobs
created or sustained over this period are estimated at over 98
000.
* In 2002/3 Ntsika plans to support 280 service providers, train
1 050 staff of service providers and develop 1 120 business
links. It expects service providers to train or assist 60 900
entrepreneurs in 81 500 SMMEs, thereby assisting in creating
or sustaining 40 000 jobs.
* Ntsika is allocated R40 million in the current budget, an
increase from the R35 million it received in 2001/2. It is
anticipated that it will receive R50 million in the 2003/4 and
R60 million in the 2004/5 budgets. The agency expects,
however, to receive a substantial increase of donor funding -
rising to R35,1 million in 2002/3 compared to R12 million in
2001/2. We were told that this money was confirmed. Including
other smaller allocations, Ntsika would spend R85, 1 million
in 2002/3 compared to R64,4 million in 2001/2.
Khula Enterprise Finance
* An impact assessment study on Khula's products between 1996 and
March 2001 carried out by UNISA's Market Research Bereau found
that these had contributed to the creation and sustaining of
788 650 jobs over this period. 70% of these were in
survivalist enterprises, with a high attrition rate.
* Khula plans to approve loans of R106 million and guarantees of
R406 million during the current financial year, leading to the
creation or sustaining of 124 498 jobs. It aims to ensure that
administrative expenses do not exceed 8% of the value of its
activities and that a return is secured on its capital not
less than the rate of inflation.
* Khula welcomed the fact that DTI plans to hive off funding of
survivalist enterprises to a new fund, saying this will help
Khula to refocus its activities.
* Recapitalisation remains an issue for Khula, and we were told
that Khula will not be able to achive its targets unless
further capital is obtained. We were told that of the R200
million requested from DTI two years ago, Khula received R81
million in 2000/1 and R30 million in 2001/2. Of the funding
requested within the framework of its current five-year
projection, we were told that Khula had received R70 million
from the DTI and that the re-valuation of some properties in
its portfolio would add a further R120 million. No further
commitments have been made by the DTI.
Comments
The committee is pleased to report continued progress in the
management, presentation, and reporting on the DTI's budget. In our
last year' s report, we noted that programmes were more closely aligned
to the major activities of the Department, that there was more
effective financial reporting that better control systems were in place
and that the trend evident in previous years of significant
understanding was being corrected. All these achievements have been
carried over into this year's budget. In addition, we now have the
Department reporting to the Committee on the extent to which it has
delivered on output targets.
In our view the latter represents an important step forward for our
Committee in terms of its monitoring and oversight of the Department's
work, as well as an important step towards effective outcomes based
budgeting. The next challenges to take this process further are, in our
view:
* To find a mechanism to present and discuss with the Committee
proposed output targets ahead of their presentation in
documents tabled at the time of the budget speech.
* To develop a coherent and convincing methodology to indicate
the extent to which the output targets have impacted on the
identified outcome targets viz "to lead and facilitate access
to sustainable economic activity and empowerment for all South
Africans through higher level of investment and increased
access to international markets for South African products,
and to create a fair, competitive and efficient market place
for domestic and foreign enterprises as well for consumers".
We were told that during the course of this year, the
Department hoped to put in place reporting systems that would
at least enable it to identify more clearly what proportion of
its total funding was being deployed to support SMMEs.
As indicated above, the Committee found that in general there was
improved delivery in 2001/2 on the output targets identified. A few
matters of concern were however, identified by the committee these
included
* Whether sufficient resources are being allocated to support our
team involved in the WTO negotiations. This is not a simple
matter. The cost of maintaining one person in Geneva is equal
to employing 6 persons at director level, and the Department
has already deployed the previous Deputy Director General of
International Trade to head the team in Geneva, while
establishing a dedicated team led by the former Minister-
Counselor in Geneva in Pretoria. The Committee is nevertheless
of the view that the WTO negotiations are of critical
importance and pose many challenges. We look forward to
engaging further with the Department on how these efforts can
be re-enforced in, including ways in which Parliament and our
Committee can assist in this regard.
* The time it is taking for the National Empowerment Fund to
become operative. After many years, the NEF has at last
received some funding from the Department and IDC to cover
operational expenses and to launch its venture capital fund,
but the NEF Corporation's substantial capitalization has yet
to take place. The Committee urges the Department to ensure
that this takes place expeditiously, and indicates that it
will be seeking progress reports from relevant departments in
the near future.
* It is our earnest hope that the recently established
Cooperatives division will be in the near future in
consultation with stakeholders; devise an effective support
programme for cooperatives.
The Provinces and Local Authorities
* The Department will be requested to comment on the issue of
provincial transfers indicated above, including possibly
extrapolating some figures in respect of individual provinces
by the time the Budget Vote debate takes place in the NCOP.
With the objective of strengthening the relationships between
the various economic development role players, nationally,
provincially and locally, we would also be interested in
receiving reports quantitatively measuring the employment,
investment and economic empowerment impact, as well as
indicating successes and challenges in the various provinces
and municipalities. We are aware that some of this information
can only be supplied by MECs with regard to funds generated
from provincial revenue. In this respect, we call on the
Minister to request these inputs from MECs via the Min-MEC
process. MECs could also be instrumental in generating an
economic status report from local authorities in their
respective provinces. It is envisaged that the NCOP debate
will provide a useful forum for MECs to deliver initial
reports this year, and more comprehensive reports in coming
years within the MTEF framework.