TUESDAY, 7 MAY 2002 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:08

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                             NEW MEMBER

                           (Announcement)

The Speaker announced that the vacancy caused by the resignation of Mr M E Mabeta had been filled, in accordance with item 6(3) of Schedule 6 to the Constitution, 1996, by the nomination of Ms N C Nkabinde with effect from 24 April 2002. Ms N C Nkabinde had made and subscribed the oath in the Speaker’s office.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr A MLANGENI: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the hon Charles Nqakula and the hon Nosiviwe Mapisa- Nqakula have been appointed Minister of Safety and Security and Deputy Minister of Home Affairs respectively;

(2) congratulates these hon Members on their appointments; and

(3) wishes them good luck on their new assignments. [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: Order! There still seems to be some problem with the microphones. It seems that the rows at the end of the IFP - and it would seem the DP, as well - are unable to hear. [Interjections.] Could you please wear your earpieces for the moment.

I am sorry about that. We will now proceed with Notices of Motion.

Mev P W CUPIDO: Mevrou die Speaker, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) kennis neem van die Nuwe NP se besluit om nie aan enige tussenverkiesings in Suid-Afrika deel te neem nie;

(2) ook kennis neem van die rede wat die Nuwe NP voorgee vir hulle lafhartige besluit om weg te kruip, naamlik dat hulle eerder vir die ``oorstap’‘-wetgewing wil wag, en dat hulle bang is om die kiesers te verwar deur kandidate voor te stel;

(3) saamstem dat die Nuwe NP se vrese net ‘n verdere bewys is van die party se ontsettende tekort aan kiesersondersteuning, en dat hulle niks het om die ANC te bied in ruil vir die beloofde eersteklas- sitplek op die soustrein nie; en

 4) 'n beroep doen op die Nuwe NP om hul politieke opportunisme op die
    proef te stel deur die kiesers se opinies te vra en om hulle
    beskikbaar te stel om aan tussenverkiesings deel te neem.
    [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mrs P W CUPIDO: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes the New NP’s decision not to participate in any by-elections in South Africa; (2) also notes the reason offered by the New NP for their cowardly decision to hide away, namely that they rather want to wait for the legislation pertaining to crossing to the floor and that they are afraid of confusing voters by proposing candidates;

(3) agrees that the New NP’s fears are merely further proof of the party’s enormous shortage of voter support, and that they have nothing to offer the ANC in return for the promised first-class seat on the gravy train; and

(4) appeals to the New NP to put their political opportunism to the test by asking for the voters’ opinions and to make themselves available for participation in by-elections.

[Interjections.]]

Mrs L R MBUYAZI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP: That the House -

(1) takes delight in the news that Chapman’s Peak will get some revival as reconstruction on it is underway;

(2) acknowledges the sophisticated engineering work that will be employed to prevent the falling rocks that are a tourist and environmental hazard;

(3) also appreciates that the reconstruction will resuscitate the business that went down immediately after the closure; and

(4) wishes this venturesome exercise the success it deserves.

Mr D A A OLIFANT: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the Western Cape MECs for Housing, Local Government and Social Services are co-ordinating their plans to deal with any flooding this year;

(2) recognises that the ANC MEC for Social Services, Marius Fransman, has met with the joint operating committee and disaster management team, and is instituting a programme for awareness in communities and setting up disaster management teams in specific areas; and

(3) congratulates the government of the Western Cape for its co- ordinated, preventative approach to managing the hardship that affects the poor when the Western Cape experiences winter storms. [Applause.]

Mrs S M CAMERER: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I will move on the next sitting day:

That the House - (1) censures the ANC Youth League for recklessly attacking the Judge President of the Transvaal, Bernard Ngoepe, and his judgment in the Matloha case, as their actions and their foolish calls on Government to intervene in court cases undermine the rule of law, a Constitution of which we can be justly proud and the judiciary;

(2) calls on the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development to reaffirm his commitment to the independence of the Bench; and

(3) calls on the ANC Youth League to rather devote their considerable energies to the fight against HIV/Aids and poverty, and to leave beauty pageants and the courts alone.

Mr M N RAMODIKE: Madam Speaker, I will move on behalf of the UDM at the next sitting of the House:

That the House -

(1) welcomes the start of construction on a gas pipeline from the Temane gas field in Mozambique to Secunda in Mpumalanga;

(2) recognises that this project not only emphasises the cost -effectiveness of alternative fuels such as gas, as opposed to coal mining, but also has huge job creation potential;

(3) welcomes the job creation potential of this project and urges Sasol to ensure that the local inhabitants of these respective regions benefit directly from such ventures; and

(4) calls on all Southern African countries to co-operate with each other in similar projects with special emphasis on job creation and environmental sensitivity. [Applause.]

Mr R P ZONDO: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes reports that the Asset Forfeiture Unit and the Scorpions have closed in on a syndicate which allegedly defrauded the City of Cape Town of millions of rands, and have arrested four people on charges of fraud, theft and corruption;

(2) further notes that offices of the Department of Minerals and Energy in Klerksdorp and Kimberley have been raided by the Scorpions, following alleged corruption by staff members in the department who allegedly issued irregular mining licences and mining concessions; and

(3) gives warning to all public servants and contractors doing business with the Government that this ANC Government will not tolerate abuse of the public purse and will crack down on those who seek to defraud the Government and the public with the full force of the law. [Applause.]

Mr S N SWART: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ACDP:

That the House -

(1) notes that a successful prayer day for transformation in Africa was held in eight stadiums across the nation on 21 March 2002, where some 300 000 Christians prayed for issues facing our nation and Africa;

(2) that this event was also broadcast to some 20 million television viewers in the United Kingdom and Europe; and

(3) commends the organisers for their diligence and commitment in uniting prayers for our nation and Africa, and calls on all Christians to continue upholding our nation, Africa and its leaders in prayer.

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Mevrou die Speaker, hiermee gee ek kennis dat ek namens die VF by die volgende sitting van die Raad sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis daarvan kennis neem dat -

(1) die nie-betaling van munisipale dienstegelde in een jaar feitlik verdubbel het van R11,7 miljard tot R22,2 miljard;

(2) hierdie syfer aandui dat die Regering beheer verloor het oor die nie- betaling van dienstegelde, en dat drastiese stappe geneem sal moet word om te verhoed dat stadsrade bankrot raak;

(3) hoër munisipale tariewe ‘n noodwendige gevolg gaan wees van die Regering se onvermoë om dienstegelde te vorder; en

(4) dit die VF se standpunt is dat dit onbillik is om van betalers van dienstegelde te verwag om hoër tariewe te begin betaal as gevolg van nie-betalers van dienstegelde, en dat die VF dus ‘n beroep doen op die plaaslike stadsrade om drasties teen nie-betalers op te tree. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the FF:

That the House notes that -

(1) the nonpayment of municipal service fees has practically doubled in one year from R11,7 billion to R22,2 billion;

(2) this figure indicates that the Government has lost control over the nonpayment of service fees and that drastic steps will have to be taken in order to keep town councils from going bankrupt;

(3) higher municipal fees are going to be an inevitable result of the Government’s inability to collect service fees; and (4) it is the FF’s contention that it is unfair to expect the people who are paying their service fees to start paying higher tariffs because of those who are not paying, and the FF therefore appeals to the local town councils to take drastic action against people who are not paying their service fees.]

Mrs R R JOEMAT: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that nearly 90 households forcibly removed from Protea Village near Kirstenbosch Botanical Gardens are to be resettled there on 13 hectares of prime real estate;

(2) recognises that this represents one of the last opportunities for the city to integrate a community evicted under apartheid into an exclusive area in which they once lived;

(3) congratulates the ANC Government on another significant step in the restitution process; and

(4) calls on the surrounding communities to embrace the rebirth of this one vital and vibrant community within their midst. [Applause.]

Mr R S NTULI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes with disgust, disapproval and concern the campaign of violence and intimidation being waged against political opponents of the ANC - and against members of the DA in particular - in Crossroads, which has resulted in the shooting to date of a DA member and the injuring of three others;

(2) notes with concern that the police have taken no concrete steps to stop the violence and to bring the perpetrators to book; and

(3) calls on leaders of the ANC to restrain their members and get them to respect the constitutional right of all South Africans to enjoy free and open political activities. [Applause.]

Mr J H SLABBERT: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) receives with extreme shock the newspaper report on the motor vehicle licence conversion scam in which about 1 500 Mozambican vehicles are involved;

(2) notes with deserving disgust that the Springs vehicle testing centre in the East Rand is involved in such a scam; (3) takes delight in the fact that the people involved have been arrested and remain in custody, pending their reappearance in court in the coming weeks; and

(4) trusts that the trial of this R10 million case will see the criminals in jail for a long time, given the magnitude of their scam.

Ms N M TWALA: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes with grave concern the reports of an impending food crisis in our region;

(2) recognises that, as the largest economy in our region, we have an obligation to assist our neighbours to alleviate famine and hardship; and

(3) assures the people of our region that this House will do all in its power to ensure that all efforts are made to alleviate the suffering of the people of the region. [Applause.]

Dr S J GOUS: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House -

(1) welcomes the action taken by staff at some of South Africa’s biggest companies and Government departments like the Sars, Absa and Anglo- Gold, who are joining the fight against HIV/Aids by donating their time, salaries and services to help victims of the disease;

(2) believes that this positive attitude and action taken by South African employees is an example of how we are going to overcome this challenge;

(3) also believes that this underlines the importance of the private sector’s getting involved; and

(4) encourages all South Africans to follow their lead because we can all play a role and, no matter how small the contribution, it is a step forward in the fight against Aids. [Applause.]

Mr D G MKONO: Madam Speaker, I will move on behalf of the UDM at the next sitting of the House:

That the House -

(1) notes with deep concern that a new computer system called ``BAS’’ and untrained staff in the Eastern Cape are starving Eastern Cape hospitals of desperately needed state funds;

(2) further notes with dismay that the Eastern Cape legislature has also not yet passed the provincial health department’s budget vote for the new financial year, which has already begun;

(3) urgently calls on the MEC for health in the Eastern Cape to stop blaming ``capacity problems’’; and

(4) further calls on the Eastern Cape legislature and the Eastern Cape MEC for Health to get on with delivery, as people’s lives depend on their urgent action.

Mrs M P COETZEE-KASPER: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that 30 members of the Uniting Dutch Reformed Church in the Free State took part in a protest in Pretoria against apartheid within the Dutch Reformed Church;

(2) recalls that under apartheid this church was divided into different churches for different race groups;

(3) recognises the special role that churches and other religious institutions have in promoting reconciliation, integration and transformation; and

(4) calls on the General Synod of the Dutch Reformed Church to treat this matter with due concern and to send a strong message and implement an effective strategy for promoting integration and harmony throughout its structures. [Applause.]

             MARK SHUTTLEWORTH'S OUTSTANDING ACHIEVEMENT

                         (Draft Resolution)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes the outstanding achievement of Mark Shuttleworth, whose journey in space was the culmination of a life-long dream;

(2) believes that the achievements of South Africa’s first astronaut are an inspiration to all South Africans to realise their ambitions and talents;

(3) recognises that his achievements will inspire many of our youth to pursue their studies in the areas of mathematics, science and technology; and

(4) welcomes our Afronaut, Mark Shuttleworth, back to earth and acknowledges his contribution to our nation’s pursuit of excellence.

Agreed to.

        POSTHUMOUS MUSIC AWARD TO PRINCESS MAGOGO KADINIZULU

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) welcomes the fact that on 3 May 2002 the South African Musical Award was posthumously bestowed upon Princess Magogo kaDinuzulu in recognition of her enormous contribution to the preservation of Zulu traditional music and song and of her great artistry in skills and composition;

(2) expresses its deep appreciation for this historic event of 4 May, when the first fully-fledged African opera titled “Princess Magogo” had its world première at the Durban Playhouse, which was simultaneously broadcast live in the United States, the United Kingdom and New Zealand, and which portrayed with great artistry the event which led to the imprisonment of King Dinuzulu after the 1906 Zulu rebellion and the extraordinary life and deeds of Princess Magogo; and

(3) pays tribute to the memory of Princess Magogo, a daughter of Kings who was chosen to fulfil a destiny, which comprised the unification of the Zulu nation and the preservation of its ancestral traditions.

Agreed to.

                     RETURN OF SAARTJIE BAARTMAN

                         (Draft Resolution)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes that in 1810 Saartjie Baartman, a young woman of Quena descent, was lured to Europe with promises of wealth and fame, where she was horribly degraded by having to appear naked as part of a freak show;

(2) recognises that death treated her no less kindly, as she was carved up by a surgeon who made a cast of her body, preserved her genitals and brain and put her skeleton on display in a museum;

(3) believes that her return with dignity and honour symbolises the healing of the South African nation; and

(4) welcomes wholeheartedly the return home of Saartjie Baartman. [Applause.]

Agreed to.

                        MOTION OF CONDOLENCE

                      (The late Mr S V Tshwete)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move the draft resolution printed in her name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That the House -

(1) notes with shock and sadness the death of the hon Minister Steve Vukile Tshwete, who passed away on 26 April 2002;

(2) recognises that Steve Tshwete was a South African who, throughout his life, demonstrated a profound commitment to the liberation of the people of this country and the continent of Africa;

(3) acknowledges the dynamic contribution that Minister Tshwete made in this Parliament as a debater, as a Minister and as Leader of Government Business;

(4) believes, in the words of President Thabo Mbeki: ``It is not our part to mourn. It is our right and privilege to celebrate the fact that we were blessed with so rare a gift of a fellow South African who was simultaneously a genuine friend, a trustworthy colleague, an activist, a leader, a patriot, an internationalist, a human titan who surrendered his life to the cause of all humanity, a principled revolutionary and a true comrade.’’; and

(5) salutes Steve Tshwete for the immeasurable contribution he made to the building of a democratic society and says farewell to one of our country’s greatest heroes as we seek to emulate the values of service, discipline and commitment which Steve Tshwete embodied throughout his life.

Le Ndlu ivakalisa uvelwano olunzulu kuNkosikazi Pam Tshwete, kuMayihlome, kuYonda, kuLindela, kuMandlakazi nakubo bonke ooThangana, amaZangwa nezalamane. Phumla ngoxolo Krila, qhawe lamaqhawe. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)

[This House extends its deep condolences to Mrs Pam Tshwete, Mayihlome, Yonda, Lindela and Mandlakazi, and the whole of the Thanganas, the Zangwas and their relatives.

Rest in peace Krila, hero of heroes.] [Applause.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, many lavish tributes have been paid to the late Steve Tshwete over the past days at memorial services and at his funeral. It is entirely appropriate that this House, where he loomed so large, should likewise have an opportunity of marking his passing.

While he was with us, no one could ignore Steve’s presence. He had quite a remarkable popularity with members of this House, particularly of his own party. Who could forget the full-throated roar of ``Steve!’’ as he entered or left this Chamber on occasion? I am one of those who crossed swords with him on many occasions. It is my job to do that, and I do not withdraw a single comment I made about him or about his efforts. What I am doing, however, is to point out that we differed as South Africans, as patriots and as friends. Even when Steve went head-to-head against his opponents, he maintained perspective and there was no hatred or continued ill will.

We had many laughs. I think of the time he came in wearing a shirt which I described as his pyjamas. He glared at me, sent daggers across the floor but, a few minutes later, I saw his stomach going up and down as he laughed.

There were many times we had laughs. Members may recall that he often came in wearing dark glasses. I think he thought that he looked menacing when he came in like that! [Laughter.] A few months ago I acquired some dark glasses and did the same: every time Steve put his glasses on, I also did the same. What we did was to sit and look at each other like two Papa Doc Duvaliers! [Laughter.] The National Assembly will miss the hon Steve. He was a larger-than-life figure and a real character. The DA joins in expressing our sincere condolences to all of those who loved him.

Hamba kahle, Steve. [Go well, Steve.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Madam Speaker, I rise to join my colleagues, in this sombre and sad moment for this House, to relay a message of condolence on behalf of the IFP, firstly to the family and close relatives of the late Minister Tshwete; secondly to his political family, the ANC and the alliance; thirdly, to the President, whose Minister this was, as well as to all his colleagues in the executive; and fourthly, to you, Madam Speaker, as you preside over the House whose member he was.

South Africa has been deprived of a dedicated servant of the people. Younger members of this House have been robbed by death of a role model to emulate. He was propelled by the exemplary spirit of patriotism, which put his people and the interest of his country first, rather than self.

The shocking news of his death gripped the whole country and left both friend and foe stunned by the untimely passing on of this zestful Minister. It will, indeed, take a while before we all get over his death.

The untimely death of Minister Tshwete brings to the fore the fragility of life and, indeed, our own immortality. It was for this reason that the sages and prophets of old, pondering over the shortness of human life, said:

You sweep men away in the sleep of death; they are like the new grass of the morning - though in the morning it springs up new, by evening it is dry and withered …

The length of our days is 70 years - or 80, if we have the strength; yet their span is but trouble and sorrow, for they quickly pass and we fly away. Steven Vukile Tshwete has gone to rest from his labours. May he rest in peace in the company of the vast throngs of Africa’s heroes and heroines who have gone before him. May he rest in peace and take his rightful place among other fighters for liberation and freedom of all the children of Mother Africa. [Applause.]

Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the New NP it is my honour to pay tribute to the late Steve Tshwete. We salute Steve Tshwete as a parliamentarian par excellence. When he spoke in a debate, he always went for the kill - with or without good arguments. But most remarkably, he never allowed the ferociousness of a debate to turn into personal grudges. After every heated exchange or argument, he always remained ``Mr Nice Guy’’.

We salute him as a Minister of Safety and Security who made a difference in our combat against crime by declaring war on criminals. During his term of office, criminals indeed became personae non grata in this country. We also salute him as a politician who went out of his way to break down the political racial divide in South African politics.

Toe wyle dr J S Gericke ‘n bekende Afrikanerleier begrawe het, het hy hom vergelyk met ‘n seder wat geval het in Libanon. Met Steve Tshwete se dood kan inderdaad gesê word dat ‘n seder geval het in Suid-Afrika. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[When the late Dr J S Gericke laid to rest a well-known Afrikaner leader, he compared him with a cedar falling in Lebanon. With the passing of Steve Tshwete it can truly be said that a cedar has, fallen in South Africa.]

We convey our condolences to his wife and children, who lost a beloved husband and father; to the ANC, who lost a true stalwart; and to the Cabinet, who lost a valuable member. South Africa will be much poorer without the services of Steve Tshwete. [Applause.]

Njing L M MBADI: Somlomo, Sekela Mongameli, abaphathiswa noogxa bam, ndivumeleni nam ndiphose igade, ndigxwale emswaneni egameni lombutho i-UDM.

Ngomhla wama-26 kuTshazimpuzi kuwo lo nyaka, libonakele izulu lithe gubungxu, libonakalisa ukuba kukho udaba lokunduluka kwendoda enkulu, indoda yamadoda, uThangana, uKrila, uMbamba. Thina ke baziyo asixelelwanga mntu, sizibonele ngemozulu ukuba ukho undonakele, kukho ukuhlanganiswa kwabaphilayo nabangasekhoyo, nguSteve Vukile Tshwete.

Lo mfo ebesaziwa emaphandleni, ezidolophini nakumaziko emfundo. Igalelo nefuthe lakhe belitsho abafundi bagonyamele impatheko-mbi ezikolweni eziphantsi kolawulo lwabacinezeli noongcothoza babo abamnyama. Le nto yakhokhelela ekwahlukeni phakathi kwabafundi, abefuthe lika Thangana nabe nkqubo eyayilawula ngelo xesha. Emaphandleni nasezidolophini, ngakumbi ngexesha likaSebe, ifuthe lakhe latsho watshabha umbuso kaSebe, kwakhalwa ngoThangana, hayi uNgwe yeSizwe.

Ubashiyile ooBantu, ooMarthinus nooTony, amadoda ebejongana nawo ngezikhondo zamehlo, de maxa wambi akhombe ngomnwe, emunca iintupha ngathi uthi inene, ndiza kunifumana.' Uhambile ke uThangana Masibuye ibuyambo, sithathele kuye sakhe inkululeko eyiyo, inxaxheba yesininzi, ukuze isizukulwana singasiqalekisi sithi: oomama nootata ePalamente ibizizanya- mtya, abasishiyanga nambele ubhongxileyo ukwanyisa usapho loMzantsi Afrika.’ Ewe kuba njalo ke kakade kwakuhamba igorha lamagorha, ikroti lamakroti, ebelingaceli ndolalaphi mntwini.

Masilibulele ilifa uKrila asishiye nalo, ukunyaniseka nokuthembeka. Alahlekelwe amapolisa nguThangana, imigulukudu ilila ngasonye, ithemba kumafama amhlophe liphelile nentswahla ngoSteve iphelile ePalamente. Silila nayo ke i-ANC neNdlu ngokubanzi. Kusapho lukaThangana sithi: Tutwini maBamba. Akuhlanga lungehlanga. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa speech follows.)

[Prof L M MBADI: Madam Speaker, Deputy President, hon ministers and my colleagues, please allow me to say a few words on behalf of the UDM. On 26 May this year the sky grew dark, indicating the passing away of the great men of men, Thangana, Krila, Mbamba. Those of us who know these things were not told by anyone but read the weather that something was wrong; the event was about the meeting of the living together with the dead by hon Steve Vukile Tshwete. This man was popular in the rural areas, in big cities and towns, as well as in educational institutions. He sensitised students who then would organise boycotts and strike actions against ill- treatment at their schools, which were in the hands of white oppressors and the black people that were considered their puppets. A split resulted between students acting on the influence of Thangana and those who favoured the government of that time. In rural areas and in cities, especially during the reign of Sebe, his influence degraded Sebe’s government, and Thangana’s name, and not Ngwe Yesizwe, became the popular name among the disgruntled.

He has left behind the likes of Bantu, Marthinus and Tony, men with whom he was always at loggerheads to the extent that he would sometimes point his fingers at them and lick them, as if he was saying, I am really going to get you'. Thangana is now gone. Let us get back together and take from the legacy he has left behind to build our democracy, so that the next generation will not denounce us and say: Our mothers and fathers at Parliament were stupid. They did not leave us, the new South African generation, a full teat from which we could suck’. Yes, it is often like that when a big man, a hero of heroes, the bravest of the brave, one who never wanted favouritism, leaves.

Let us express our gratitude for the legacy of faithfulness, loyalty, trustworthiness and credibility that Krila left us. The South African Police Service has suffered a loss. Criminals are perhaps not sorry about this. White farmers have most probably lost hope and hon Steve, as a source of vibrant laughter in Parliament, is gone. We mourn with the ANC, as well as the house. To the family of Thangana we say: We are very sorry for the loss you have suffered, you of the Bamba family’. [Applause.]] Rev K R J MESHOE: Madam Speaker, we received the sad news about the untimely death of the hon Minister Steve Tshwete with shock. He left us at a time when it was generally believed that his fight against crime was starting to bear fruit. His discipline, commitment and dynamic hands-on approach made him the right man for the job. This also earned him respect among those who were concerned about crime in general, and motivated the police to do their best in apprehending criminals.

The ACDP salutes the late Steve Tshwete for the great contribution that he made to the building of a new democratic South Africa and for his tireless efforts to bring crime under control. We know that if he had his way, he would have changed the Constitution in order to strengthen the hands of the police in their fight against crime, as he expressed that wish on a few occasions.

We will also remember him for his tough and fearless approach in dealing with crime syndicates and regret that he left us before he could see the fruits of his tireless labour. The ACDP extend their deepest condolences to his wife, his three children, his relatives, his parliamentary colleagues and his friends. May they take comfort and strength from the words of the Apostle Paul, who said, and I quote:

Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Tsamaya hantle, Ntate Tshwete! [Go well, Mr Tshwete!] [Applause.]

Dr P W A MULDER: Madam Speaker, Mr Tshwete was born in Springs on 12 November 1938. He was the eldest of five children. He attended various schools in the Eastern Cape and was, in his final year, head prefect. He played first-team rugby. I think all these already showed his leadership qualities at that stage.

Mr Tshwete became involved in politics while at school and joined the ANC. At the 1991 ANC congress in Durban he was elected to its National Executive Committee. He became Minister of Sport in 1994, and we all came to know him in this Chamber as the Minister of Safety and Security.

Die VF het minister Tshwete leer ken as ‘n gedugte politieke opponent in hierdie Huis. Maar ons het graag met hom swaarde gekruis omdat hy nie bang was om feit teen feit, argument teen argument te stel nie. Ons is wel op rekord waar ons met hom saamgestem en hom ondersteun het in sy oorlogverklaring teen misdaad.

In die mediaverklaring wat die VF direk ná minister Tshwete se dood uitgereik het, het ons gestel dat die ANC hom moeilik sal kan vervang. Hy was in werklikheid die ``Mr Fixit’’ van die ANC wat verskillende ANC- probleme en -krisisse telkens moes oplos en, by uitnemendheid, wel daarin geslaag het om dit met die minste moontlike probleme reg te kry.

Die VF betuig graag by hierdie geleentheid simpatie met mev Thswete, die hele Tshwete-familie, met hul groot verlies. Mag hulle troos ontvang. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The FF got to know Minister Tshwete as a formidable political opponent in this House. But we enjoyed crossing swords with him, because he was not afraid of counteracting fact with fact, argument with argument. We are, in fact, on record as having agreed with and supported him in his declaration of war on crime.

In the media statement which the FF released just after Minister Tshwete’s death we said that the ANC would have difficulty in replacing him. He was, in truth, the ``Mr Fixit’’ of the ANC, who time and again had to resolve various ANC problems and succeeded excellently in doing so with the minimum of problems.

On this occasion the FF would like to express its sympathy with Mrs Tshwete, the whole Tshwete family, on their great loss. May they receive consolation. [Applause.]]

Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Madam Speaker, the UCDP wishes to express its sincere condolence to the family of the late Minister of Safety and Security, Mr Steve Tshwete. Our hearts and minds are with his family at this moment of their bereavement.

Mr Tshwete was not called ``Mr Fixit’’ for nothing. When he inherited the Department of Safety and Security that was characterised by inefficiency, with a demotivated police force, he turned it around.

The level of crime in this country was, by and large, described in astronomical statistics, but he managed to reduce it to a manageable level as it is today. For example, today central Johannesburg is one of the safest places in South Africa.

At the parliamentary level, Mr Tshwete was not full of humour, but exuded confidence, unquenchable passion and unquestioned love for his country, and he was always ready to defend and stand by whatever he believed to be right. To ordinary citizens, he was beginning to be seen as a unifying figure for South Africans. As a people’s Minister of the most important and challenging portfolio of Safety and Security in the history of South Africa, he was the kind of person who would say sorry, if need be, without feeling belittled. Indeed, he was a firebrand in Parliament.

Surely Thangana will be missed by friends and foes alike, because he was honest and had a mind of his own. He gave praise and credit even to his ardent opponent, if he deserved it.

To this end, while he was Minister of Sport and Recreation, he openly credited Kgosi L M Mangope for all he did in providing sports infrastructure, something, I think, that some of his colleagues in Government and the party would not have done.

How can we easily forget a person of Mr Tshwete’s stature, who was larger than life? He loved what he was doing, not as a career, but as a calling to eradicate crime in this country. We are challenged as South Africans to preserve his legacy and to continue to fight where he left off to make South Africa a safe haven for everyone.

Lala ka kgotso, Thangana [Rest in peace, Thangana.]

Dr S E M PHEKO: Madam Speaker, on the occasion of the death of Julius Caesar, Mark Anthony said:

I came to bury Caesar, not to praise him The evil that men do lives after them, The good is often interred with their bones, so let it be with Caesar.

On behalf of the PAC, I rise to say I come to praise Steve Tshwete, not to bury him. The good he did will not be interred with his bones. The PAC salutes him for the role he played in the liberation struggle.

We in the PAC never agreed with some fundamental policies of his party, amongst which were the imprisonment of our former Apla forces, while apartheid criminals had amnesty; privatisation of state assets and land claims from 1913. We ran many political battles with him over the eviction of our people from Bredell in the midst of a severely cold winter. He was angry with us when the masses in Bredell chased him away. He threatened to arrest PAC leaders.

Another occasion on which we clashed with Comrade Steve Tshwete was when we buried Sibusiso Madubela and gave him a 21-gun salute. All hell broke loose when Madubela’s coffin was lowered and bullets flew in the air. The PAC will miss him. He was dedicated to his cause.

Yes, he did his best on crime, but crime will never be eradicated as long as criminals are treated as if their right to life is superior to that of law-abiding citizens. Criminals are brutal and beastly in the country. They must not be treated with kisses.

We convey our condolences to Mrs Tshwete and the family.

Tsamaya hantle, morwa wa Tshwete. [Go well, son of Tshwete.]

Usibulisele kuNjongantshiyini bath’uqumbile, iNkunz’abayikhuz’ukuhlaba ingekahlabi, umxelele ukuthi inkululeko yethu ngomhlaba isagexa. [Pass our regards to Njongantshiyini that they say is cross, the Bull that is feared although it has not struck; tell him that our freedom regarding the land is still shaky.]

Dr A I VAN NIEKERK: Mevrou die Speaker, hiermee wil ek graag namens die FA, en veral Dr Luyt, simpatie betuig met familie en vriende, na die afsterwe van Steve Tshwete. Ek het hom in die Kabinet as ‘n kollega leer ken, as ‘n mens-mens sonder enige fieterjasies, as iemand wat reguit met ‘n mens kon praat. Deur sy persoonlikheid en sy menswees het hy baie bygedra tot die skep van omstandighede waar baie Suid-Afrikaners saam oor die brug na die nuwe Suid-Afrika kon beweeg. Daarom sal ek hom in daardie trant onthou.

Hy en Dr Luyt het ernstig swaarde gekruis, maar verder as ‘n woorde-oorlog het dit nie gevorder nie. So het Steve gelewe en so sal ons hom onthou. Daarom sal ons hom in die toekoms mis op die pad wat ons nog saam moet loop en waarvan hy ‘n baie belangrike fondament vir ons almal gelê het. Ons eer sy nagedagtenis. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Dr A I VAN NIEKERK: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the FA, and Dr Luyt in particular, I would like to express sympathy towards family and friends on the death of Steve Tshwete. I came to know him in the Cabinet as a colleague, as a people person without any whims, as someone who could speak frankly to one. Through his personality and his humanity he contributed much to the creation of conditions in which many South Africans could cross the bridge together to the new South Africa. For this reason I shall remember him in that way.

He and Dr Luyt crossed swords seriously, but it never became more than a war of words. This is the way Steve lived, and this is the way we shall remember him. For this reason we shall miss him in future on the road which we still have to travel together and on which he laid a very important foundation for all of us. We honour his memory. [Applause.]]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the MF leader, Mr Rajbansi, councillors and myself, I take this opportunity to extend condolences on the loss of the hon Minister Steve Tshwete.

A freedom fighter left us on the eve of our freedom. He fought for freedom, but did not live to enjoy it. I have known the late Steve Tshwete for approximately two and a half years. His strong character, his reputation as a comrade in the struggle and his contribution as a dedicated and determined member of the national Government had earned him status and recognition. As commemorated, the late Steve Tshwete will be remembered as the son of the soil who led the fight against crime and apartheid with distinction.

His inspiring work and commitment were rooted as early as the 60s, pledging his commitment and dedication to his work with people and bodies such as the MK and the ANC. His hard work and sacrifices are footprints left over 15 years of imprisonment on Robben Island as a political prisoner. He was exiled to Lusaka soon thereafter, were he persisted in his commitment to the struggle. He returned to South Africa a few years later and, united in our success, we walked into the new Government.

Steve Tshwete was a strong force against apartheid. He had always been a strong force in instituting a new South Africa and was a great contributor to the success of this country.

His charisma shall live on as an inspiration. His work at national level has been remarkable, and the MF grieves the loss of such a dedicated and committed force who worked hard for the betterment of South Africa and South Africans.

The MF grieves the loss suffered by his wife and children, and may God give them strength to overcome this difficult time. Condolences are also conveyed to the ANC and the national Government of South Africa.

We have lost a husband, a father and a great, courageous comrade. May his soul rest in peace.

Hamba kahle, Steve. [Go well, Steve.] [Applause.]

Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, much has been said today about the political achievements of the late Steve Tshwete. In this short tribute which I present on behalf of the AEB, I want to highlight the two most outstanding features of the man, Steve Tshwete, that personally impressed me most.

Firstly, I want to talk about his uniqueness, his own individual Tshwete- like approach which was comparable to no other person that I know. His hoarse voice was unique. The way in which he pointed his bent finger to the opposition was unique. I remember the one day when he replied to an unwelcome remark from this side of the House with a gesture which I now illustrate. [Laughter.] His interjections were unique. He made his presence felt whenever he entered a room. If there was one man in this House who could say ``I did it my way’’, it was Steve Tshwete. Nobody else would be able to imitate that.

The second feature, and maybe the one good characteristic of Steve Tshwete that often brought him trouble, was his absolute honesty - he spoke his mind. Quite often he was politically incorrect and impulsive. He was the Minister who, more than anyone else, had had to say: ``Madam Speaker, I withdraw’’, even with regard to some public statements that he made. With him, it was a case of what you see is what you get; no false facade; no window dressing; and no hidden agenda. He never played for the pavilion and he was always in the rucks and mauls of South African politics.

We experienced his true-hearted honesty when he so often visited the scene of a crime, and when he was amongst the foot soldiers of our own policemen and women who held him in high esteem. We experienced it when he, like a father with genuine compassion, embraced Mr Moek van Rensburg, whose son had been murdered on a farm the previous day. I experienced it whenever I was involved in personal conversation with him. Maybe he was an example of what we need most in South Africa today: integrity. Whatever he said, one thing of which one could be sure was that he honestly meant what he said. In a world of falseness, opportunism and cheap point-scoring, and in a country with complicated social and political interactions, we need more leaders like Steve Tshwete: honest, straightforward and sincere.

The office of Steve Tshwete may be replaced but the person may never be replaced. [Applause.]

Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Madam Speaker, Azapo wishes to convey its deepest-felt condolences to the wife, children and relatives of Comrade Steven Vukile Tshwete. At this moment of sadness, Azapo joins the ANC and all comrades across the liberation spectrum to celebrate his contribution to the struggle to free our people.

Indeed, his struggle was the people’s struggle. Little by little, the human contributions of Comrade Steve Vukile Tshwete will begin to fade away. His strong opinions, the nature of his imposing gestures, his somewhat hoarse voice and his strong belief in eradicating crime - which won him the hearts and minds of policemen and women - all of these attributes will start to fade away.

We remember him for his intellectual capacity and, above all, his friendliness which won him over the hearts of even his very dear former enemies. We who lived with Steve on Robben Island will remember him for his strong political arguments and his strong views about the liberation struggle. May his spirit live on! Hamba kahle, Tshwete! [Go well, Tshwete!] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, hon members, over a week ago, the nation received traumatic news of the passing on of hon Steve Tshwete, the Minister of Safety and Security and member of this House. As for many of us in the ANC and among the people of South Africa, the death of Comrade Steve left us in a state of despair and sudden confusion. This was the case because, in our minds, this vociferous giant had steadily but surely led the men and women in uniform in the battle against crime, and was working hard to build communities where ordinary South Africans will live in a peaceful and secure environment. Comrade Steve Tshwete was a patriot - a revolutionary who demonstrated unwavering commitment to the liberation of the people of South Africa.

He was born of peasant parents in Peelton in 1938. During his youthful years he developed a political consciousness which led him to join the ANC, and he was described by the President as: ithambo lenyoka elihlaba elimzondayo [he who could pick out the undesirables.] he immersed himself in the work of the ANC. He was arrested in 1963 and spent 15 years in jail. He was released in 1978 and soon played an important role in building civic and political organisations in the then border region of the Eastern Cape. He was later elected president of the border region of the United Democratic Front. The apartheid government declared him an illegal immigrant in the country of his birth. Like many South Africans, his house was turned into a jail. He later fled the country and joined the ANC in exile.

He joined Umkhonto we Sizwe and was appointed the national commissar of the army. During his term of office, he inspired many cadres who were sent on missions to fight inside the country. Being the gallant warrior that he was, no task was too difficult for him. He was never paralysed by fear. He was a general who led from the front. Amongst the many deeds of heroism that he was involved in, one that will last forever in my memory is when, on 12 May 1988, the unit he was with was ambushed in Angola by Savimbi. In that battle, when the commander - Bra T - was injured, Comrade Steve Tshwete took over command. It is appropriate, therefore, at this stage, to take the opportunity to lower the banner on behalf of all former Umkhonto we Sizwe combatants to pay tribute to this gallant warrior of our soil.

When the ANC was unbanned, he was charged with the responsibility of rebuilding the ANC structures in the country. This laid the firm basis for the landslide victory of the ANC in the first democratic elections. He then became instrumental in the transformation of sport codes in South Africa and the return to the international arena. At the time of his death, Comrade Steve was the Minister of Safety and Security.

On Saturday, 4 May we gathered at Bisho Stadium to say farewell to this great lion of the south. As the President put it, and I quote him:

It is not our part to mourn. It is our right and privilege to celebrate the fact that we were blessed with so rare a gift of a fellow South African who was simultaneously a genuine friend, a trustworthy colleague, an activist, a leader, a patriot, an internationalist, a human titan who surrendered his life to the cause of all humanity, a principled revolutionary and a true comrade.

One of the key personal attributes that Comrade Steve had was a rare gift of being humane and firm at the same time, always willing and ready to forgive, and equally ready to humble himself and apologise whenever he erred. He was an able storyteller, an orator, and he was endowed with a sense of humour and remained thus up until his last days, even on his deathbed. These virtues defined Thangana.

As we celebrate the life achievements of Comrade Steve, we must ask ourselves the question: What is it that we must do to ensure that death hath no sting? What is it that we need to do individually and collectively to ensure that the grave that death bequeaths unto us cannot conquer the immortal spirit of an outstanding combatant for freedom?

The late Tshwete was part of a collective; a Government and an organisation

• the ANC - that have laid the firm basis for national unity and national reconciliation; a collective that is engaged in programmes to roll back the frontiers of poverty and build a better life for all; a collective engaged in the struggle to build a nonracial, nonsexist and democratic South Africa. Comrade Steve Tshwete has been about achieving these noble objectives.

Kwikhaya lakwaThangana, ooKrila sithi: Lalani ngenxeba. Akuhlanga lungehlanga kuqabane uPam Tshwete, unkosikazi wakhe, nabantwana uYondangebhulu, uMayihlome-ihlasele, uLindela noMandlakazi. Sivakalisa uvelwano olunzulu.

Phumla ngoxolo Thangana, Krila, Mbamba, Raso, Qhawe lamaqhawe esizweni. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)

[To the Thangana family, the Krilas, we say: We express our heartfelt sympathies to comrade Pam Tshwete, his wife and children, Yondangebhulu, Mayihlome-ihlasele, Lindela and Mandlakazi. We extend our deep condolences.

Rest in peace, Thanga, Krila, Mbamba, Rhaso, hero of heroes of our country. [Applause.]]

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, the Deputy Speaker and I wish to associate ourselves with the sentiments that have been expressed. We will convey these to the late member’s family. You have been unanimous in your views.

Debate concluded.

Motion agreed to, all members standing.

     APPOINTMENT OF MR G Q M DOIDGE AS CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr A C NEL: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move the draft resolution printed in her name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That the House appoints Mr G Q M Doidge as Chairperson of Committees to replace Mr M J Mahlangu, who resigned from the post with effect from 7 May 2002.

Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, the DP is in full support of this motion and would like to second it. Would it be appropriate to speak now or hereafter?

The SPEAKER: I think you may speak now, and then we will formally adopt the motion.

Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, I am not sure whether anybody can hear me, because I am told that the microphones are not working.

The SPEAKER: They are very selective! Continue.

Mr D H M GIBSON: The DP has pleasure in seconding the motion for the appointment of the hon Geoff Doidge as Chairperson of Committees. Mr Doidge has proved his capabilities as a first-grade parliamentarian. He is very committed to his party, his constituency and his family. He now has an opportunity of serving Parliament as a whole in this senior position.

My party knows him as a hard worker, as well as an intelligent and well- organised man. He maintains good relationships across party lines. We expect that he will preside with fairness and impartiality, and he certainly has our support.

I would like to say, in conclusion, that we on this side would like to pay tribute to the hon M J Mahlangu, Mr Doidge’s immediate predecessor. Mr M J Mahlangu was an extremely able presiding officer. He presided with competence, dignity and quiet charm. We are grateful to him for his service as chairperson, and wish him well in his further career. I second. [Applause.]

Mr M F CASSIM: Madam Speaker, I have had the pleasure, for the past one and a half years, of working with a great gentleman and selfless colleague, the hon M J Mahlangu.

I wish him well as he leaves his present post to assume the very important and newly created post of chairperson of the Budget committee. I thank this colleague for his positive leadership, particularly for the generous spirit of accommodation he always manifested.

The arrival of Mr Geoff Doidge in the newly vacated post means that one gentleman has handed the baton to yet another gentleman. The hon Doidge is a senior colleague who has shown himself in all circumstances to be unflappable, friendly and very fair-minded. I wish to welcome the hon Geoff Doidge and extend to him all my co-operation.

He has the mettle and the vision to continue with the groundwork undertaken by his colleagues, and to help further develop the all-important committee system of which we are all justifiably proud.

Welcome once again and, on behalf of the IFP, the sincerest congratulations to him on the assumption of this most important position. [Applause.]

Mnr C H F GREYLING: Mevrou die Speaker, die Nuwe NP vereenselwig hom met die mosie soos dit op die Ordelys verskyn. Ek wil graag namens ons party vir mnr Doidge baie gelukwens met sy nuwe aanstelling as Voorsitter van Komitees. Gedurende sy tydperk as Ajunkhoofsweep het ons hom leer ken in die hoofswepeforum, as ‘n persoon wat sy werk met bekwaamheid en met doeltreffendheid uitgevoer het. Hy het altyd ‘n oopdeurbeleid gevolg. Ons glo dat die nuwe Voorsitter van Komitees ook in hierdie nuwe hoedanigheid ‘n sukses sal maak van die nuwe taak wat nou aan hom opgedra is.

Ons wens hom graag sterkte en voorspoed toe, en vertrou dat hy as voorsitter te alle tye onpartydig en regverdig sal optree, en dat hy die komiteestelsel soos ‘n geoliede masjien sal laat loop. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr C H F GREYLING: Madam Speaker, the New NP associates itself with the motion as it appears on the Order Paper. I wish to convey, on behalf of our party, our heartiest congratulations to Mr Doidge on his new appointment as Chairperson of Committees. During his term of office as Deputy Chief Whip we got to know him, in the Chief Whips’ forum, as someone who performed his task with competence and efficiency. He always practised an open-door policy. We believe that the new Chairperson of Committees will also, in this new capacity, make a success of the new task that has now been entrusted to him.

We wish him all the best and trust that, as chairperson, he will act impartially and fairly at all times and that he will keep the committee functioning like a well-oiled engine.]

Mr C T FROLICK: Madam Speaker, the hon Mr Doidge has served as a whip in the new democratic Parliament since 1994. During this time he has served under four different chief whips. He therefore has a rich and diverse experience of the workings of Parliament.

He has proven himself as a person who tackles small and big challenges with equal vigour and enthusiasm, which has translated into many success stories. We do believe that he will take these qualities and this experience with him into his new post, and will thereby contribute to the proper functioning of Parliament.

Mr Doidge’s elevation to the position of Chairperson of Committees is due recognition for his commitment to this institution. The UDM supports the motion and wishes him well in his endeavours. [Applause.]

Dr C P MULDER: Mevrou die Speaker, ek wil graag namens die VF die geleentheid gebruik om Mnr Doidge baie hartlik geluk te wens. Ons het hom leer ken as ‘n baie bekwame persoon wat waargeneem het by verskeie geleenthede in die voorsitterstoel in die hoofswepevergadering. Ons vertrou dat hy, soos wat hy daar sterk kon optree en kon standpunt inneem, dit ook sal doen in die Raad in sy nuwe hoedanigheid.

Hierdie is ‘n baie harde plek. ‘n Mens moet ‘n aanstelling kry, of iets anders moet met jou gebeur, voordat mense van jou mooi dinge sê. So ek wil vir Mnr Doidge baie hartlik gelukwens. Ons sal graag met hom saamwerk. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Dr C P MULDER: Madam Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity on behalf of the FF to heartily congratulate Mr Doidge. We have come to know him as a very competent person who has acted as chair on several occasions in the chief whips’ meetings. We trust that, just as he acted firmly and took a firm stand on those occasions, he will also do so in his new capacity in the House.

This is a very tough place. One has to secure an appointment, or something else must happen to one, before people say nice things about one. So I would like to heartily congratulate Mr Doidge. We would like to co-operate with him. [Applause.]]

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Madam Speaker, we would like to congratulate Mr Mahlangu. We are definitely going to miss him when he takes up his new position. However, we know that he is going to do a great job in this new portfolio. With regard to Mr Doidge, I have come to know him for only a short time, but it has been very good knowing him. He has been very fair-minded and easy to talk to, and the opposition parties knew that they could come to him, especially the minority parties. So we want to congratulate him on his new portfolio.

I can tell him that we already have complaints lined up for him with reference to the committee, so he will be hearing from the ACDP. We once again want to congratulate him. We will miss him as the Deputy Chief Whip, though, but we know that he will be a success in this new portfolio. [Applause.]

Mnr J P I BLANCHÉ: Mevrou die Speaker, van ons kant af wil ons ook vir Mnr Doidge baie gelukwens. In die kort tydjie wat ek hom leer ken het, het ek hom ervaar as ‘n man wat baie opreg is in sy werk, en baie eerlik sy werk doen. Ek dink hy gaan ‘n uitstekende voorsitter wees, en ons wens hom ‘n oop pad vorentoe toe. Van ons kant af sal hy al die steun kry wat hy nodig het. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.) [Mr J P I BLANCHÉ: Madam Speaker, for our part, we would also like to congratulate Mr Doidge. In the short time that I have come to know him, I have found him to be a man who is very sincere in his work and who performs his work with great honesty. I think he will be an excellent chairperson, and we wish him an open road ahead. He will receive all the support that he requires from our side.]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Madam Speaker, we would like to wish Mr Doidge well and congratulate him as he takes up this new position. He has proven himself to be a very fair-minded and balanced person as a Deputy Chief Whip, and we can only hope that even as Chairperson of Committees he will keep on serving us well.

We would like to thank Mr Mahlangu, the gentle giant who presided over this House for some time. We hope that even in his new post we will keep on enjoying his co-operation. We shall meet there, as some of us belong to that committee. [Applause.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, the MF wishes to associate itself with the others in congratulating the hon Doidge on his new position. But there is one thing I would like to remind Deputy Chief Whip Doidge, and that is that … [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order! Please proceed, hon member.

Miss S RAJBALLY: Nevertheless, I congratulate him on his new post. [Applause.]

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mevrou die Speaker, die AEB wil ook graag vir mnr Jeoff Doidge hartlik gelukwens met sy nuwe aanstelling. Ek dink hy het homself bewys in die tyd toe hy as waarnemende hoofsweep dinge baie goed gehanteer het. Mnr Doidge het aan my ‘n belofte gemaak, en dit is dat ons voortaan baie meer Afrikaans gaan hoor daar van die voorste podium af. Ek hoop hy hou daarby. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, the AEB would also like to sincerely congratulate Mr Jeoff Doidge on his new appointment. I think he proved himself during the time when, as Chief Whip, he handled things very well. Mr Doidge made me a promise, and that is that in future we are going to hear much more Afrikaans from the foremost podium in front. I hope he keeps to that.]

I just want to ask a question: With the upcoming crossing of floors in mind, will Mr Doidge still keep his new post in September when he crosses over to the new AEB? [Laughter.]

I also want to thank Mr Mahlangu for the way in which he handled the proceedings of this House. I hope Mr Doidge will not be so punctual on the red button when dealing with two-minute speeches!

Agreed to.

The SPEAKER: Order! Mr Doidge, your colleagues have congratulated you and I also add my congratulations. But I must add a slight word of sympathy: you are very well aware that this is not an enviable job. Your predecessor has carried it with great fortitude and distinction. You will do well to follow in his footsteps. I congratulate you. [Applause.]

I also want to thank Mr Mahlangu for the very hard work that he and his deputy have put into this office. [Applause.]

Mr Doidge, you may address the House.

Mr G Q M DOIDGE: Madam Speaker, I just want to say to Cassie that I do not think there is any space in the lift for another member, because that is the only caucus room I think he knows. [Laughter.] That is the only one with a mirror, Cassie.

Let me begin by, firstly, thanking the ANC organisation, for having bestowed this honour and privilege on me, and for having shown such confidence in me. Mr Frolick is correct: this is the fourth Chief Whip that I have served under. I was hoping that by the time we got to the podium this afternoon, I would have been given the privilege of breaking the record by having Chief Whip number five, but I was not that fortunate. I have served in this Parliament under the guidance of Rev Makhenkesi Stofile, Comrade Max Sisulu, Comrade Tony Yengeni and, recently, under the hon Maphisa Nqakula. Working as part of the ANC team of whips has sustained and nurtured me. I want to thank all the ANC whips for the support that they have given me over the years, and pledge that my door will be opened to them. To the chief whips of other parties, I must express my gratitude for their co-operation, which ensured that the work of Parliament proceeded smoothly and efficiently. However, I must warn them that I am not as generous as they think I am!

I must also pay special tribute to Comrade M J Mahlangu, who vacates the Chair that I will now be filling. I trust that, in his new position, he will be able and will continue to make a further contribution to the transformation and smooth running of Parliament. His measured, calm and rational approach in times of pressure and stress are qualities that we should all emulate.

To my successor, the hon Nel, I wish him every success. I also want to thank the Speaker and the Deputy Speaker, who have over the years given me much support and an opportunity to gain a better insight. I am looking forward to working with all the staff here in Parliament and the presiding officers, as we continue to make our contribution towards the transformation of this institution.

Lastly, I want to bid farewell - and it is with a heavy heart that I do so

• to our outgoing Chief Whip, the new Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, the hon Maphisa Nqakula, with whom I have been privileged to work for a very short time. It has been an exciting time and I was probably one of the most disappointed people, because I could see the vision and mission that she had come with to this Parliament. Our time together was short but exciting, and her legacy in Parliament will survive her departure to higher office.

In conclusion, I stand here today as a servant of the people. This House represents the voice of those people and as an officer of this House, I pledge to serve the people of our nation as fully as I am able to. [Applause.]

           APPOINTMENT OF MR A C NEL AS DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP

                           (Announcement)

The Speaker announced that Mr A C Nel had been appointed Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party by the ANC with immediate effect to replace Mr G Q M Doidge.

                   APPOINTMENT OF AD HOC COMMITTEE

                         (Draft Resolution)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY (Mr A C Nel): Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move the draft resolution printed in her name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That the House, in accordance with section 193(5) of the Constitution, appoints an ad hoc committee to nominate a person for appointment as Public Protector, the committee -

(1) to consist of 27 members, composed as follows: African National Congress 14; Democratic Party 2; all other parties 1 each;

(2) to exercise those powers in Rule 138 that may assist it in carrying out its task; and

(3) to report to the House by 21 June 2002.

Agreed to.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS - ICASA NOMINATIONS

There was no debate.

Question put: That the Report be adopted.

Division demanded.

The House divided: AYES - 250: Abram, S; Ainslie, A R; Bakker, D M; Balfour, B M N; Baloyi, M R; Bekker, H J; Benjamin, J; Beukman, F; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, G B; Biyela, B P; Blaas, A; Bloem, D V; Booi, M S; Botha, N G W; Buthelezi, M N; Camerer, S M; Cassim, M F; Chalmers, J; Chauke, H P; Chiba, L; Chikane, M M; Cindi, N V; Coetzee-Kasper, M P; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Davies, R H; Diale, L N; Didiza, A T; Dithebe, S L; Ditshetelo, P H K; Dlali, D M; Dlamini, B O; Doidge, G Q M; Douglas, B M; Dowry, J J; Du Toit, D C; Duma, N M; Durand, J; Dyani, M M Z; Ebrahim, E I; Fankomo, F C; Fazzie, M H; Fihla, N B; Fraser-Moleketi, G J; Frolick, C T; Gandhi, E; Geldenhuys, B L; George, M E; Gerber, P A; Gomomo, P J; Goniwe, M T; Goosen, A D; Govender, P; Green, L M; Greyling, C H F; Gumede, D M; Gxowa, N B; Hajaig, F; Hanekom, D A; Hendrickse, P A C; Herandien, C B; Hlaneki, C J M; Hlengwa, M W; Hogan, B A; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Joemat, R R; Jordan, Z P; Kalako, M U; Kannemeyer, B W; Kasienyane, O R; Kati, J Z; Kekana, N N; Kgarimetsa, J J; Kgauwe, Q J; Kgwele, L M; Komphela, B M; Koornhof, G W; Kota, Z A; Lamani, N E; Lekgoro, M K; Le Roux, J W; Lishiva, T E; Lobe, M C; Lockey, D; Louw, J T; Louw, S K; Ludwabe, C I; Lyle, A G; Mabe, L; Mabena, D C; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madasa, Z L; Madlala-Routledge, N C; Magazi, M N; Magubane, N E; Magwanishe, G; Mahlangu, G L; Mahlangu, M J; Mahomed, F; Maimane, D S; Maine, M S; Makanda, W G; Makasi, X C; Malebana, H F; Maloney, L; Malumise, M M; Mandela, N W; Manuel, T A; Maphalala, M A; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Martins, B A D; Masala, M M; Masithela, N H; Matsepe-Casaburri, I F; Maunye, M M; Mayatula, S M; Maziya, A M; Mbadi, L M; Mbombo, N D; Mbuyazi, L R; Meshoe, K R J; Mfundisi, I S; Mguni, B A; Middleton, N S; Mkono, D G; Mlambo-Ngcuka, P G; Mlangeni, A; Mnandi, P N; Mngomezulu, G P; Mnumzana, S K; Modise, T R; Moeketse, K M; Mofokeng, T R; Mogoba, M S; Mohamed, I J; Mohlala, R J B; Mokoena, D A; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B G; Moloi, J; Moloto, K A; Mongwaketse, S J; Moonsamy, K; Morkel, C M; Morobi, D M; Moropa, R M; Morutoa, M R; Morwamoche, K W; Mothoagae, P K; Motubatse, S D; Mpahlwa, M; Mpaka, H M; Mpontshane, A M; Mshudulu, S A; Mthembi- Mahanyele, S D; Mthembu, B; Mtsweni, N S; Mutsila, I; Mzondeki, M J G; Nair, B; Nash, J H; Ncinane, I Z; Ndlovu, V B; Ndou, R S; Ndzanga, R A; Nefolovhodwe, P J; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, N E; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngubane, H; Ngubeni, J M; Nhleko, N P; Nhlengethwa, D G; Niemann, J J; Njobe, M A A; Nkabinde, N C; Nobunga, B J; Nqodi, S B; Ntombela, S H; Ntshulana-Bhengu, N R; Ntuli, B M; Nzimande, L P M; Odendaal, W A; Olckers, M E; Olifant, D A A; Oliphant, G G; Omar, A M; Oosthuizen, G C; Phadagi, M G; Pheko, S E M; Pieterse, R D; Rabie, P J; Radebe, B A; Rajbally, S; Ramakaba-Lesiea, M M; Ramgobin, M; Ramodike, M N; Ramotsamai, C M P; Rasmeni, S M; Redcliffe, C R; Reid, L R R; Ripinga, S S; Roopnarain, U; Schippers, J; Schneeman, G D; Schoeman, E A; Scott, M I; Seeco, M A; September, C C; September, R K; Sibiya, M S M; Sigcau, S N; Sigcawu, A N; Sigwela, E M; Sikakane, M R; Simmons, S; Sithole, D J; Skhosana, W M; Skosana, M B; Smith, V G; Solomon, G; Sonjica, B P; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Southgate, R M; Swart, S N; Thabethe, E; Tinto, B; Tolo, L J; Tsheole, N M; Tshivhase, T J; Turok, B; Twala, N M; Uys, P; Vadi, I; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van der Merwe, J H; Van der Merwe, S C; Van Deventer, F J; Van Jaarsveld, A Z A; Van Wyk, J F; Van Wyk, N; Vos, S C; Woods, G; Zondo, R P; Zuma, J G.

NOES - 35: Andrew, K M; Bell, B G; Blanche, J P I; Bruce, N S; Borman, G M; Clelland, N J; Cupido, P W; Da Camara, M L; Davidson, I O; Eglin, C W; Ellis, M J; Farrow, S B; Gibson, D H M; Gore, V C; Grobler, G A J; Jankielsohn, R; Kalyan, S V; Lee, T D; Leon, A J; Lowe, C M; Maluleke, D K; McIntosh, G B D; Moorcroft, E K; Opperman, S E; Pillay, S; Schalkwyk, P J; Schmidt, H C; Selfe, J; Semple, J A; Seremane, W J; Smuts, M; Sono, B N; Swart, P S; Taljaard, R; Waters, M.

ABSTENTIONS - 3: Aucamp, C; Groenewald, P J; Mulder, C P.

Question agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

     CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF CONSTITUTIONAL REVIEW COMMITTEE

Report adopted without debate.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, could we have some order in the House, so that we can hear the hon the Minister. Those hon members that are moving out, it would be appreciated if you could do so very quietly.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 26 - Communications:

The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Madam Speaker, Deputy President, colleagues in the executive, members of the Portfolio Committee on Communications in particular, hon members of Parliament, distinguished guests, allow me to start off my debate this afternoon by paying tribute to a son of Africa, a warrior that fell on 26 April. I do not doubt that all members of this House will agree with me that a dark cloud did fall over South Africa that Friday.

Comrade Steve will be remembered by all of us not just for his fierce stance in this House in supporting what he believed in, but also for his bravery in fighting for the freedom that is enjoyed by all South Africans today, and mostly for his sterling work during the last two and a half years of his life as Minister of Safety and Security.

Personally, his encouragement and confidence in me, and his belief that one can rise to a challenge, whilst we were in exile in Lusaka, will always be appreciated.

UQabane uSteve uyibekile induku ebandla. [Comrade Steve has played a major role in society.]

On a different note, I would also like to take this opportunity to congratulate two colleagues and comrades who have been faithful to the struggle for a better South Africa, Comrades Nosiviwe and Charles Nqakula. We have no doubt about their capabilities, and that they will bring to their new posts, indeed, something that all of us will appreciate.

Today marks the end of an era and heralds an exciting future. We are closing one door and opening another. Five years ago, we started a process of transforming the telecommunications sector, focusing on access, universal service and the modernisation of the sector. I am proud to report to the House that, in this sector, we have made significant progress towards ensuring universal access to services by all South Africans, and advancement in the technological area.

We live in a world and a country that continues to be marked by gross inequalities. Poverty alleviation therefore remains at the top of our agenda. Information and communications technologies have been identified as being central to development, both in our country and across the African continent, as they present us with an opportunity to leapfrog decades of development. Because of the importance attached to this sector and because of its cross-cutting nature, special focus needs to be placed on the effort to bridge the digital and knowledge divide.

Members will recall that a decision was taken to grant exclusivity to Telkom five years ago. This entity was required to fulfil specific obligations to roll out telephones in underserviced areas and villages as well as to priority customers such as schools and hospitals. Telkom was required to modernise and grow the telecommunications industry. In doing this, Telkom has had to manage staff numbers in a necessary but painful process.

This day heralds a new beginning, the birth of managed liberalisation. As we stand poised to enter this new phase, I am proud to report to the House that Telkom has made considerable progress in meeting the above obligations, and more South Africans now have access to a range of new services.

Five years ago, it was commonplace for the majority of South Africans to cross rivers, catch buses, trains, and so on, to just be able to make a telephone call. These South Africans, who constituted the majority, were, in the main, falling outside any meaningful communication infrastructure and services. For them, the luxury of having any connectivity within easy reach, something that many of us take for granted, was a pipe dream.

I personally experienced this digital divide between rural and urban South Africa very recently. I attempting to reach my director-general, who was attending a family funeral in a village in the Eastern Cape. I was in Pretoria. He had to travel for two hours to the nearest hilltop so that he could get a signal and retrieve messages from his cellphone in order to communicate with the seat of government. At one point he had to travel for two hours to receive an urgent fax. For many, these conditions have changed, but just as many are waiting to have such a change.

Over 2,5 million new lines have been installed since 1997, 1,4 million of which were installed in historically underserviced areas. Approximately 2 700 villages were connected for the first time. Almost 20 500 priority customers have been connected. Where previously it was common for our people to wait for years before having a telephone installed in their homes, I am informed that the average time for installation of services has been reduced significantly so that the installation of services within some areas is done within 28 days and now stands at 97% for business and 95% for residential customers.

At a capital cost of R50 billion spent primarily in expanding, upgrading and modernising the network, Telkom has rehabilitated its network into a fully digital system that is managed from the National Network Operation Centre in Centurion, which I invite members to visit so that they can see for themselves the state-of-the-art technology that exists in our country.

Yet, there are still challenges that we must all confront in order for us to defend these gains and extend them to more South Africans. One of these challenges is to reduce the cost of telephony in order to lower the disconnection rate.

Another challenge that confronts us is to fight against cable theft and to protect the infrastructure that has been deployed in our communities and placed at our service. I specifically call upon our people to help us in fighting criminality and vandalism directed at the communications infrastructure.

I was informed this morning that the last connection for Telkom during this exclusivity period was a school, the Matome Malatji School of Phalaborwa in Limpopo Province, whose principal is Mr Mashego.

Through the wonders of technology, an unlikely celebrity was introduced to South African television audiences last year. I would like to introduce to this House Mr Dlakela.

Molo Mhlobo Wam! [Hello, my friend!] [Applause.]

In May 2001, we delivered a budget speech for the department under the theme `Unity in action for change’’. We undertook to work together with other departments on a wide range of issues and programmes that were to be implemented during the past financial year.

Today we report back on the progress and achievements that we have made together with our partners, and also outline the direction that we intend taking during this financial year and beyond.

Firstly, we are happy to report that policy and legislation targets set by the department in the past financial year were met. The Telecommunications Amendment Act was enacted in November last year, after extensive consultation with local and international stakeholders. There was a vibrant debate in this House, as was dramatically illustrated by the hon member Suzanne Vos, who prepared two speeches - one for declining to vote for it and the other in support of it. I am glad that she was able to support it. The Postal Services Amendment Act, which seeks to clarify the mandate of the postal regulator, became law also in November. The Electronic Communications and Transactions Bill is currently before Parliament and has been welcomed by industry, both locally and internationally.

The amendments to the Telecommunications Act have paved the way for the introduction of the second national operator in which a 30% stake is reserved for Esi-Tel and Transtel, and a 19% stake is reserved for black and women’s economic empowerment. I am pleased to report that Icasa received 10 applications for the empowerment stake, three of which were disqualified. The invitation to apply for the 51% stake will be issued shortly. The department led a highly successful road show late last year to popularise the new licence opportunity in Asia and Europe.

The amendments have also paved the way for the awarding of an international and multimedia licence to Sentech. Draft Sentech licences have already been issued for public comment by Icasa, and the final licences will shortly be issued by Icasa.

Furthermore, the amendments to the Telecommunications Act provided for the licensing of operators in underserviced areas with a teledensity of less than 5%. The majority of these are in the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Strategy nodal points. The department held provincial workshops to raise awareness amongst the relevant communities of opportunities for telecommunications licences in these areas. This process will bring about significant ownership and involvement in the communications sector by black people and women in our country.

The work done by Icasa is fundamental to the realisation of the new policy and legislative objectives. Icasa has had to draft new regulations and embark on licensing processes and public hearings. All of this work has been done in a context of demanding deadlines and a high staff turnover as a result of industry poaching.

Finally, the amendments provide for a new public emergency telephone and a new emergency number - 112. A pilot has already been established in Klerksdorp in the North West province.

As indicated earlier, the Electronic Transactions and Communications Bill has been welcomed by local and international stakeholders alike. There are, however, issues of a technical nature that have been raised, and these will be attended to. And once the Bill has been passed, we will set up the following: a cyber inspectorate to protect citizens against cyber crime, a route certification authority for registration and certification of operators in the cyber environment and a section 21 company for a country code top level domain name registry.

As all members are aware, provisions for the continued existence of the Universal Service Agency were contained in the Telecommunications Amendment Act. The process to restructure the agency, including the establishment of the board, is under way. In the course of last year, the agency conducted a review of the work of the existing 90 telecentres that have been established in the country. As a result of this review, a process will be initiated during this year to upgrade the capacity of telecentres and cyberlabs, as well as to redirect their activities to include training and to provide dedicated services, especially to the youth.

During the past financial year, 30 schools in the nodal points were equipped with modern communication tools as part of the extension of services, in partnership with provincial education departments. This year, 200 additional schools will receive modern ICT tools as part of the Edunet network to link up all public schools. And in addition, the agency will finalise a universal service map to guide operators during the process of redrafting the universal service obligations later this year.

Regarding broadcasting, during the course of the last financial year an additional 1,5 million South Africans gained access either to radio services for the first time or to improved radio services in accordance with our promise to advance universal service in broadcasting. In July last year, we had the privilege of switching on the Mbuzini transmitter to extend Radio Ligwalagwala to 400 000 new listeners in Schoemansdal, Mpumalanga, who until then had never had an FM signal.

In December last year, UKhozi radio service reached 695 000 new listeners at Qhudeni, KwaZulu-Natal. During the same month 435 000 new listeners in Kwaggafontein, Mpumalanga tuned in to Thobela FM and Ikwekwezi for the first time. The same extension of services by Thobela FM reached 180 000 new listeners in Tolwe, Limpopo. In the course of this month the SABC and Sentech will be launching a new transmitter service for Ukhozi in Ulundi, KwaZulu-Natal. All of us in the urban areas have grown accustomed to the superior and clear sound of FM services. These 1,5 million South Africans enjoy this service for the first time.

Our programmes to support the community radio sector also entailed installing seven community radio stations, while 13 were upgraded and provided with ICT tools to make their work more efficient. However, licensing has been slow because of staff losses at Icasa. At the same time, in order to enhance the contribution of broadcasting services towards improving the daily lives of ordinary South Africans, we worked together with the community broadcasting sector to ensure the production of content that is relevant to our people and to specific situations. This task has been completed and we have been fortunate to witness what some have called the breed and feed of volunteers.

More than a thousand programmes were produced at the production hubs and aired in more than 50 community radio stations throughout the country. Spurred on by our constitutional mandate to create a South Africa that respects the fundamental rights of women and children, these programmes have been produced by, with and for women, children, people with disability and the youth. This mandate will find further extension through a programme to ensure that the communications infrastructure is accessible to people, especially those with disabilities.

In the course of last year, we also opened a new frontier by hosting a community electronic multimedia indaba. Two hundred and fifty participants from rural-based community radio stations, multipurpose community centres and telecentres, together with the department, converged to initiate a process to address the needs of rural communities in the changing technological environment.

We would like to report on the participation of Sentech in the roll-out of services in rural areas. Sentech has been pivotal in achieving the roll-out targets of the broadcasting services, which we earlier spoke about. And in addition, Sentech has been actively collaborating with the GCIS since 1999 in the planning and the roll-out of multipurpose community centres throughout the country. In the future, Sentech will assume a greater role in emergency service delivery, and in disaster relief projects in rural areas. It will also provide broadband multimedia links to overcome rural connectivity challenges and support the MPCCs as information hubs.

Last year we spoke of a study to look into the feasibility of a dedicated parliamentary channel. Consultations with stakeholders have continued and the regulatory environment will ensure that we establish such a system to adequately cover Parliament.

In launching the Moral Regeneration Movement, the Deputy President correctly pointed to the role that broadcasting can play in building a new moral fibre and entrenching democratic values. Our commentators have pointed to the missed opportunities to instil new values, a culture of rights and responsibility, and a new South African identity. Our society needs a broadcasting sector that contributes to a social discourse that acknowledges our responsibility to each other.

Discussions are under way with the SABC to develop editorial and news programming policies to cover issues of content, accuracy and impartiality. Such policies will have to address standards such as exposure to violence, criminal activity, gratuitous sex and nudity on our screens and airwaves.

During this year we will introduce to Parliament an amendment to the Broadcasting Act aimed at expanding the sector through the licensing of more subscription and regional services to address issues of language and diversity, as well as radio services in areas where regional services were not licensed.

This year the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, will ensure that all broadcasting players increase their input of South African content in line with these regulations. We thank the outgoing members of Icasa for the service that they have rendered to us, particularly in the area of regulating our airwaves and telecommunications sector.

Our parliamentary programme for this year will include the introduction to Cabinet and Parliament of the Convergence Bill. This will deal with the convergence of broadcasting, telecommunications, information technologies and new media, and will present the regulator with new challenges. There will also be a need to further clarify the role of the policy maker and of the regulator.

We will also, in the course of this year, receive recommendations from advisory bodies on how to develop policy frameworks for digital broadcasting and the display of content on our local and foreign markets. The process of corporatising and repositioning Bop Broadcasting and Channel Africa is well under way, even though it was slow. By June this year, a report will be presented to Cabinet.

With regard to the Post Office, there has been a great deal of transformation over the past financial year. There was a further roll-out of public internet terminals and the increasing of postal outlets in historically disadvantaged areas, as well as the restructuring of the Postbank and other enterprise reforms.

As members already know, we terminated our strategic management contract with New Zealand Post International. We express our disappointment at the inability and failure of the partner to meet their contractual obligations and our expectations. The investigation into this failure is complete and the outcome will be presented to Cabinet soon.

However, enterprise reform continues in the Post Office. All systems and contracts entered into by SAPO and all its subsidiaries are being reviewed to root out administrative inefficiencies and corruption. Several people have already been suspended, dismissed and/or charged.

In die afgelope boekjaar is daar 100 publieke internetterminale in poskantore landwyd bekend gestel. Daar word beoog om ‘n verdere 200 van hierdie terminale in die huidige finansiële boekjaar te installeer. Die gevolg hiervan is dat die Poskantoor nie meer inligtingstegnologie as ‘n bedreiging kan sien nie, maar eerder as ‘n geleentheid om die maatskappy strategies binne gemeenskappe te plaas as ‘n bron van inligting. Deur hierdie terminale het klein sakemense, besighede en boere wat andersins nooit toegang tot ‘n persoonlike rekenaar sou hê nie, ook die geleentheid om as e-posgebruikers te registreer en ook e-posadresse te hê. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[In the past financial year 100 public internet terminals were introduced in post offices countrywide. It is envisaged that a further 200 of these terminals will be installed in the current financial year. The result of this is that the Post Office can no longer regard information technology as a threat, but rather as an opportunity to strategically place the company within communities as a source of information. Through these terminals small businesspeople, businesses and farmers, who otherwise would never have access to a personal computer, also have the opportunity to register as e-mail users and also have e-mail addresses.]

Dicitizen Post Office tsena tse supileng di ile tsa hlongwa, tse nne tsa tsona di ile tsa neuwa batho semmuso, selemong se fetileng. Sena se fana ka monyetla wa hore batho ba rona ba be le tekenologi moo ba dulang. Ke ile ka iponela sena ka mahlo, ha re ne re fana ka Citizens Post Office kwaNongoma ka di 26 Hlakola 2002. Bana ba sehlopha sa leshome ba sekolo se phahameng sa Bhekuzulu ba ile ba iponela ba bua le bona ba re, ba qala ho tshwara khomputara bophelong ba bona. Thaba Nchu moithuti ya balang sekolong sa Poso Vista o ile a kgona ho romela porofesara ya hae mosebetsi wa thuto (assignment) ka E.mail kgetlo la pele. (Translation of Sotho paragraph follows.)

[These seven citizen’s Post Offices were implemented, and last year four of them were officially handed over to the people. This provides our people with an opportunity of having access to technology wherever they live. I witnessed this personally when we handed a citizen’s Post Office over in KwaNongoma on 26 February 2002. Matric students from Bhekuzulu High School witnessed the event and maintained that for the first time in their lives they had touched a computer. In Thaba Nchu, a correspondence student at Vista University was afforded the opportunity for the first time to send an assignment to his professor via e-mail.]

La maposi asezindaweni zasemakhaya. Kuyajabulisa ukuthi abantu babe phezulu, nabo bazamukele. KwaNongoma kwaZulu iSilo saMabandla kanye neNkosi Moroka eThaba Nchu nabo banama e-mail. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)

[These posts are in the rural areas. It is exciting that people are uplifted, and that they have accepted these changes. In Nongoma, KwaZulu- Natal, the Zulu Kind and Inkosi Moroka eThaba Nchu have e-mail facilities.]

During this financial year we will complete another major initiative that will further empower our people across economic divides through the restructuring of the Post Bank. The process of drafting the Post Bank Bill is well under way. This piece of legislation will address the needs of millions of unbanked or unbankable South Africans.

For the current financial year, the Minister of Finance announced in the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement that the Post Office will receive R300 million a year subsidy. This contribution will go to clearly identified projects, with the specific aim of meeting universal service needs of our people. These include the extension of electronic transaction systems to all rural post offices, as well as ensuring a basic quality standard of services in all post offices across the country. In the meantime, a firewall has been built between the finances of the Post Office and the Post Bank.

With regard to human resources, building capacity that will utilise new technologies to deliver relevant service to all South Africans in any context and in their languages remains one of our greatest challenges.

The National Electronic Media Institute of South Africa, Nemisa, will continue to train South African youth in the area of multimedia, television, radio production and so on. Last year 30 students graduated from Nemisa in the area of television and radio production. Nemisa has also introduced a multimedia course in partnership with Multi-Media University of Malaysia.

More importantly, the focus in training this year will be on delivering web- based Internet language services for the 11 South African official languages, a first for us as a nation. Working together with the Department of Education, Nemisa will also embark on the training of teachers and school administrators in the use of ICT tools education. This partnership includes Sentech, and will see the implementation of Edu-Net and the E- learning centre as an education network service that will link all public shools.

The Institute for Satellite and Software Applications, ISSA, is another intervention in bringing about human capital that will position South Africa as a player in science and space technology. Minister Ben Ngubane has been telling us that our country needs scientists. His passionate plea has been heard.

Last year our programme produced 25 masters graduates, 14 of whom were studying in engineering sciences through Stellenbosch University and 11 of whom graduated with a master’s degree in software engineering through the Carnegie Mellon University in the US. Many of them are sitting in the gallery. [Applause.]

During the last financial year the software evaluation centre operated by ISSA software engineering graduates was established. The process to establish a computer virus monitoring centre has also been completed. During this financial year, we will again be working with local universities in running masters degrees.

Telkom has also made major contributions in this regard and laid great emphasis on the development, education and training of historically disadvantaged persons through the centre for learning that has been assigned a five-year budget of R2,3 billion. To date, a total of 10 691 people have been sponsored through study schemes, bursaries and scholarships - these were for both Telkom employees and the general public.

As the hon Rajbally once said in this House, ``Siyaya’’ [We are on our way.]

In his state of the nation address, the President said that this year an ICT university would be established. I am pleased to report that this is on the way. A great deal of international work has been done within the country with regard to promoting Nepad. We would like to make the House aware of the fact that a number of our companies have played an important role in this regard. Vodacom, MTN and Sentech have extended their operations into the rest of the continent and we look forward to this extended connectivity, making a meaningful contribution towards Nepad and the African Renaissance a reality.

I would like to conclude by thanking the entire staff of the department - including the director-general, Andile, who has just recently been awarded a doctorate by the University of Fort Hare - for the sterling work that they have done. I also wish to thank those who have helped us make this a reality. [Applause.]

We wish to thank Mark Shuttleworth for taking us with him on his expedition. He has opened up the world of space technology to many South Africans, especially the youth. He has done us proud. He was worth the shuttle.

I also wish to thank my Cabinet colleagues and others. [Applause.]

Ms M SMUTS: Madam Speaker, we share the sentiments about Mark Shuttleworth. Our gracious hosts at dinner last night led us down memory lane by quoting from the 1996 Telecommunications Bill debate. This prompted me to revisit this debate, and now by way of compliment to this Minister, I want to tell her what I said about that Minister. I am quoting myself as of October

1. I said, and I quote:

The Minister sharply dismisses the comments of industry representatives in what was, I regret to say, a wrist slapping performance. He dismissed the input of other participants in the process. He said they were ``the self-interested input of the advantaged.’’ This was an experience which embarrassed everyone who treasures the newly independent role that Parliament has carved out for itself.

Let me say that the wrist-slapping is not the hon the Minister’s style, and neither does she not listen to industry.

Sy luister miskien meer na party as ander, maar sy luister wel na die industrie. [She might perhaps listen more to some than others, but in fact she listens to the industry.]

Today, 7 May, should have been a red letter day for telecoms in South Africa, because Telkom’s monopoly expires. However, it is not consumers who celebrate today, but Telkom, which loses its exclusivity but has no competition. It seems to us that the chief complication in getting a liberalised environment going is the lack of regulatory certainty. This results, of course, from the nature of Government’s policy and law, as well as the uncertain conditions in which the regulator functions.

I am going to limit my remarks today to Icasa. Let me place on record, if I may, that we oppose the selection made for the three vacancies mentioned a minute ago because, firstly, the best candidate was not selected and, secondly, a departmental manager is now moving directly across to the independent regulator. It goes without saying that we will, however, continue to support and protect that institution.

We are asked to vote an inadequate R111 million for Icasa. Based on previous performance, Icasa would need at least half as much again. Given the demands of the second operator licensing process this year, it is absolutely certain that the amount is too little.

But there is a more fundamental problem, and that is the fact that the department is still funding the regulator at all. It is now three years and one month since the Constitutional Court, no less, put it beyond any doubt that Chapter 9 constitutional institutions may not be treated like line- function bodies of departments that are active in the same fields.

The constitutional bodies must have funds required reasonably to discharge their functions, the court said in the IEC case. But unlike the HRC and other human rights bodies which can function on relatively modest amounts, Icasa regulates a multimillion rand industry which pays millions in licence fees and spends millions on litigation, not least against the regulator.

The Constitution makes these bodies subject only to itself and the law, and accountable to us. The court said in not so many words that it is for us, and not the executive arm of Government, to provide for the funding. The court said:

If this means that old legislative and policy arrangements, public administration practices and budgetary conventions must be adjusted to be brought in line with the new constitutional prescripts, so be it.

All this means that we must now put in place a mechanism whereby the regulator is funded. I have specific proposals in this regard. Firstly, Parliament could set the budget together with Mr Mahlangu’s Budget committee, with the Treasury paying the money out while supervising only for sound financial practice. Secondly, it is, in my view, still the best idea to let the regulator retain some of its licence fees, in order to fund itself. There is, in fact, a precedent: the Auditor-General has a specific arrangement. Section 213 of the Constitution does not, in fact, insist that all moneys go directly to the National Revenue Fund. It does allow for exceptions by an Act of Parliament, and that is exactly what we should be doing. We should be looking after the regulator and funding them directly.

Mr N N KEKANA: Madam Speaker, perhaps one of the frustrations of debating with smaller parties like the DP is that they do not have enough time, so one cannot make sense of exactly what they are talking about. I think we would welcome a robust debate on issues before us here. The issues that are raised by the hon Smuts are recycled. Perhaps she did well to go back five years into history.

We would also like to join our Minister in saluting and remembering Comrade Steve Vukile Tshwete, a gallant soldier, organiser and leader of our people. The most befitting tribute to the memory of Comrade Steve Tshwete is for us to rededicate our commitment to deliver quality and affordable services to all our people, especially in rural areas.

Today is the end of an era and the beginning of an exciting period in the telecommunications sector. We are satisfied that the telecommunications sector is in a position to deliver on many of our policy promises. We are pleased that Telkom is rated by the Telecom Top 100 Network survey as one of the top 100 carriers; ranked at number 40 with a revenue stream of US$4,3 billion. This ranking places a lot of responsibility on Telkom, as the only operator from the African continent in the top 100 of the world. Through the capable leadership of its Chief Executive Officer, Sizwe Nxasana, the management, board and workers of Telkom, the carrier has made a complete turnaround in operations since the apartheid days.

The strategic partnership with Thintana has yielded positive results, and we are pleased that Thintana continues to support the initial public offering process. We believe that Telkom is able to give leadership on the continent, and we are satisfied that the cable network wrapped around the African continent will link African countries to other destinations in the world. Furthermore, South African companies are investing in Africa and making a meaningful contribution to Nepad.

The switching of traffic in Africa is not just an economic and security issue, but is about pride and principle. We need to use technology to break the shackles of colonialism and make a complete break with the past. African carriers must switch and connect calls originating from one country on the continent to another without going through Europe. The licence being issued to Sentech will also increase our capacity to provide first class services to South Africa and other African countries.

Telkom has, in the last five years, rolled out many telephone services to priority customers such as schools and clinics. We are, however, concerned about the number of disconnections that have taken place since the installation of basic telephone services in rural areas. We are encouraging people to pay for their services, but also call on Telkom to address this shortcoming.

Let me address an issue which is of concern to us. This relates to the standoff between Telkom and the regulator, Icasa, over tariff increases. The current standoff is not in the interest of the consumers and end users of services. The sooner this matter is laid to rest, the better. What we are expecting is a tariff regime that is based on the pocket size of an average working South African customer. We are calling for the regulator to be respected by all industry players, including Telkom. The relationship between the regulator and industry players and between Icasa and Government departments must be based on professional ethics, norms and clear guidelines.

The regulator is a custodian of public interest and should take the side of the consumer. The regulator should furthermore ensure that operators improve their customer care. We expect that the regulator should also improve on its administration and regulation of the industry.

A watertight operation by the regulator that leaves no loopholes will limit the dissatisfaction of the industry and prevent delaying tactics that are often used by operators to frustrate the implementation of decisions of the regulator. It is a worldwide practice for an incumbent to use every trick in the book to frustrate competition, thereby guaranteeing its profits. Incumbents would publicly encourage competition, but through their deeds not make it easy for new entrants to enter the market.

The regulator, acting in a fair and transparent manner, becomes the referee and regulates competition. We expect Icasa to be nondiscriminatory and treat all players equally. We expect Icasa to protect new entrants, while being considerate to the interests of Telkom and other existing operators.

We are asking the Minister to consider paying Icasa’s legal fees directly from the national Treasury, because operators with fat budgets tend to undermine regulations through court battles. Icasa’s budget is completely inadequate to deal with litigation and legal fees of the regulator, so we are asking the Minister - and the Minister of Finance as well - to seriously consider this matter.

The introduction of the third cellular operator has increased competition and, in a limited way, we are beginning to experience the benefits. While we expect the prices to fall over time, we are still concerned about the quality of service received by customers. There are still too many dropped calls and interference: I am experiencing this daily in my constituency. We expect the cellular operators to have completed their dual network upgrades, and the regulator should allocate the additional GSM 1800 spectrum.

MTN and Vodacom have repeatedly reported that the existing spectrum allocation is nearing capacity, but we know that it is technically possible for them to enlarge the cell size of GSM 900 antennas by using range- booster technologies. We urged them to do so in the interim. We are aware that preparatory work is being done to migrate to the GSM 1800 spectrum, and we call on all parties to co-operate with the regulator to accelerate both the migration to GSM 1800 and the allocation of the spectrum for use by telecommunications operators.

The second major area of our attention today is the ongoing transformation of the SABC into a public broadcaster. The SABC must be transformed into a broadcaster that delivers on its mandate to inform, educate and entertain. A lot of work has been done over the years since 1994 to turn the corporation into a public broadcaster that we can all identify with and be proud of as South Africans.

As members of this Parliament, we have passed legislation to create a legal framework for a speedy transformation of the SABC into a South African national public broadcaster. We are confident that the split of the SABC into public and commercial services is on course.

Many of the activities of the SABC are, however, aimed at positioning it to attract audiences and to compete with other broadcasters. The task of appeasing advertisers while delivering quality programming that educates and informs is, indeed, an onerous one.

There is no doubt that locally produced content has a massive following and attracts quality audiences. We call on the SABC to engage the advertising industry to support popular programmes. Local content can only succeed if broadcasters and advertisers support the creative work of South African producers. The commissioning procedures of the SABC received attention recently in our committee. We are concerned that only a few companies produce programmes. The products of independent black producers must also be used. Whilst we are satisfied that the corporation managed to break even, we are concerned about the repeats which reflect that the programming budget is under pressure.

We would like to see more current affairs programmes in all languages, so that the SABC could become a platform for citizens to participate in discussion about their lives. We believe that the SABC is falling short of its mandate as a public broadcaster. It should be more developmental in its work. There is a need to find a fair balance between entertainment, education and information programmes. The moral regeneration of our communities must be reflected in the broadcasting content of the SABC. We are pleased that the Minister has indicated that some of these matters are being addressed.

The SABC newsroom is another area that needs attention. It must reflect content that captures the reality of life in South Africa. The people are generators of news. Their experience is what is reality. Actuality and news are a reflection of their reality and experience. We have noted that changes have taken place and we are calling for leadership and stability in the newsroom. During our last portfolio committee visit to the SABC, we had the honour of visiting the engine of the newsroom and experienced first- hand how headline news and breaking stories are handled by the news division.

It is clear from the quality of news broadcast that more resources are needed to improve the quality of journalism, and that more correspondents should be placed in African countries and throughout the world. A lot of work has gone into improving the coverage of the African continent. Gone are the gloom and doom that we were so accustomed to on the CNNs and the BBCs of this world. As an African broadcaster, the SABC must, together with other broadcasters on the continent, tell the untold stories of success of the African continent.

The SABC must interpret, analyse and tell the world news from a South African perspective, independent of the CNN’s and the BBC’s angle. We need to build the SABC, not only as a mirror of society, but also as a wider platform for debate, discussion, synthesis and dissemination of information from all sectors of our communities. We are also calling on the SABC to introduce news broadcasts and programmes that are aimed at informing and educating the youth about their responsibilities and roles in society. Children watch the early current news bulletins and, as such, we need to make sure that they are free of violence and explicit material.

The new generation of management at the SABC has already done a lot to complete the work that was started in 1994. We support this new generation of management at the helm of the SABC. We have confidence in their ability and dedication to deliver on the mandate of the public broadcaster.

Transformation of the SABC has been going on for a long time. We must finally move towards achieving the objectives set out in the charter of broadcasting cast in law. The board and management of the SABC must soon declare that the restructuring of the entity has been completed and that the broadcaster must now focus sharply on delivering quality services.

We as a portfolio committee periodically meet the board and management of the SABC. We have raised many issues of concern and we have noted improvements. But we have also identified challenges that must urgently be addressed. We are confident that the SABC will take into account our views and those of different stakeholders and position the broadcaster to deliver on its mandate.

I would not really address the issue of postal services, because some of my colleagues will deal with it. However, I must just say that we have full confidence in the CEO, management and workers of the Post Office. We must, however, issue a strong warning to corrupt and criminal elements within the Post Office that molato ga o bole [the law has a long arm]. [Applause.]

Lastly, this House must congratulate our Minister on the sterling work she is doing on the African continent. Just this weekend she met with the African advisory group, which is made up of established leaders in the ICT sector. She also chairs the Ministerial Oversight Committee that will be meeting in Cairo from 11 to 12 May 2002. This work on the continent is important for South Africa, because we do not expect to develop whilst there is a sea of technology deficiency in other countries on our continent.

We should also thank the capable leadership of the Director-General of Communications, Andile Ngcaba, the deputy director-general and members of their staff. The Department of Communications has made great strides in positioning Government and the entire industry to grow and develop. We give our full support to this Budget Vote.

Finally, I just want to say that the portfolio committee wishes - and I understand that they are here in the gallery - to express thanks for the commitment and dedication of the outgoing councillors of Icasa, Lubbe Loyd, Willy Currie and Jasmin Carrim, who have completed their contribution to the Public Service under the regulator. We wish them well in their new responsibilities.

The last matter that we need to explain to this House is that, unfortunately, on Friday we had to postpone the meeting of our committee to look in depth at the budget of the department. I have explained to my colleagues from other political parties that due to the funeral of Comrade Steve Tshwete, we had to postpone that meeting and that we would hold a responsible meeting of our committee to deal with the budget of the department in detail and invite stakeholders who wish to participate before this House considers the Vote itself.

Of course, I would also like to thank all my colleagues, even from opposition parties. We try our best to quarrel, but also to put the interests of the industry first and to ensure that all our portfolio organisations deliver on this very important mandate of improving universal service in our country, ensuring that all our people - rural and urban, white and black, women, children and everybody else - receive quality services from this industry that is fast growing. We are very proud of many of those who are up there in the gallery, including students who will soon be going up into space like Mark Shuttleworth [Applause.]

Ms S C VOS: Madam Speaker, the few minutes allocated to the IFP today cannot possibly do justice to our attempts at an analysis of this Budget Vote.

We have concerns relating to various unexplained line items of expenditure. Currently we have more questions than answers. It is unfortunate that it was not possible, as explained, for the department to brief the communications committee as scheduled last Friday when some light may have been shed on some issues.

The IFP is, therefore, not in a position to indicate its final decision on this Budget Vote until the information we seek is forthcoming. It is acknowledged that this Vote is complex. The approximately R800 million under discussion today involves diverse matters relating to telecommunications, broadcasting and postal services.

For those of us who have served on this committee since 1994, it is becoming glaringly obvious that the three Ministers to date have yet to be able to streamline Government policy development and delivery targets in many areas for a variety of reasons. The Minister has our sympathy. This is not a criticism as such: it is just fact.

One promise has, however, been kept, and that is today’s celebration of the end of Telkom’s monopoly. Putting aside for one moment our empathy with the howls of anguish over tariffs, the fact is that Telkom and its foreign equity partner, Thintana, have delivered. For this, we must thank them.

A current R40 billion debt - some say R50 billion, and I do not have the exact figures - is testimony to the roll-out of infrastructure, new and innovative service delivery and critically needed skills transfer.

Explanatory notes for Vote 26 in the Estimates of National Expenditure tell us that the department’s policy-making objectives include those magic words: regulation and accessible service. But, let us ask ourselves: Do the public in the main and the industry in general think that the telecommunications sector is well regulated? The answer, alas, is no. By way of illustration, last year we had the Cell-C fiasco, so we will not go into that again. However, recent events have shown Telkom, of which, we must not forget, this Government is a major shareholder, being accused of riding roughshod over consumers who are bearing the brunt of skyrocketing tariffs. If that is not bad enough, Telkom continues to show open contempt for the regulator, Icasa. It is also trying to flout the provisions of the Telecommunications Amendment Act. One cannot accuse Telkom of not trying to protect its turf. All over the world, incumbents do not go quietly into the dawn of competition.

Many in our committee are anxious to know whether the Department of Communications, following a recent meeting in the United States with Telkom’s strategic equity partner, Thintana, is intending to bend to pressure and amend the amendment Act and/or backtrack on carrier preselection and matters relating to interconnection. If they do, we can wave goodbye to competition in the near future. Meanwhile we are about to license a second national operator and already there is another tug of war going on between the department and Icasa - which is supposed to be independent but the department, clearly, does not think so. Are policy and delivery targets in the broadcasting sector on track? The answer, again, is no. The development of community radio outreach seems to be shambolic. Up at Auckland Park the warning bells are already ringing about the proposed public-commercial split of the SABC. What about the Post Office? One can mention fraud; corruption; a brave CEO fighting back and receiving constant death threats for his efforts; a foreign management contract that has, at vast expense, gone belly-up; and subsidies that are with us again. So, its time is up. What are we voting for again? It looks like, yet again, tens of millions being spent in various guises by the department on a variety of consultants, and I am asking members to tell us that this is not true.

Let us briefly remind ourselves of the agonies and the flip-flops relating to the Telecommunications Amendment Bill. Consultants here and internationally received huge sums of money for this project alone and one of the IFP’s as yet unanswered questions is: just how much? Our committee has had to literally rewrite this Bill. The legal drafting was, quite frankly, a disgrace. Many more millions will also be spent on public servants, some of whom claim expertise which has not been apparent to our committee.

On a more positive note, the department and its director-general, in particular, have always been long on excellent and exciting vision. Superb work is being done, as the Minister has outlined, particularly in laudable skills development programmes. I would like to say to the Minister that clearly, as the saying goes, one cannot win them all, especially in the praise department on a day like today.

Mnr J J DOWRY: Mevrou die Speaker, Mnr die Minister, wanneer ons die afgelope jaar in oënskou neem, kan die Minister en die DG, mnr Andele Ngcaba, met tevredenheid terugkyk op wat bereik is op die gebied van kommunikasie. Die instelling van die derde selfoon netwerk is suksesvol afgehandel, en meer as 450 000 intekenare het reeds by cell C ingeteken. Dit bied nie net goeie kompetisie in die bedryf nie, maar verbruikers kan ook voordeel trek uit beter finansiële pakkette wat aangebied word. Daarbenewens is baie nuwe werkgeleenthede geskep, wat tans uiters noodsaaklik is vir ons land. Die Nuwe NP, wat in die verlede sterk gepleit het vir die kompetisie, is bly dat dit nou ‘n werklikheid geword het.

Tweedens, is die skepping van die projek:``Internet 2000’’, wat beoog om aan 2000 prioriteitskliënte, waaronder veral skole, internetskakeling te bied, nóg ‘n waardevolle gebeurtenis. Mense in plattelandse gebiede kan groot baat hierby vind. Die samewerking tussen die departemente van Kommunikasie en Gesondheid sal help om multimedia te gebruik om die gaping te oorbrug en aan plattelandse gebiede toegang te verleen tot mediese bronne wat andersins nie bereikbaar sou wees nie.

Nog ‘n positiewe ontwikkeling is die lisensiëring van Sentech om vaste lyndienste te lewer. Dit laat die monopolie van Telkom gedeeltelik ten einde loop. Dit sal nie net die ongesonde monopolie van Telkom vorentoe beëindig nie, maar sal ook kompetisie bring wat tot voordeel van verbruikers sal strek.

Telekommunikasiekostes sal uiteraard hierdeur afgedwing word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr J J DOWRY: Madam Speaker, Mr Minister, if we take a look at the past year, the Minister and the DG, Mr Andele Ngcaba, can look back with satisfaction on what was achieved in the field of communications. The establishment of the third cellphone network has been successfully completed, and more than 450 000 subscribers have already subscribed to cell C. Not only does this provide good competition in the industry, but consumers are also able to benefit from better financial packages that are provided. Moreover, more jobs have been created, which is currently extremely necessary for our country. The New NP, which has pleaded strongly in the past for this competition, is happy that it has now become a reality.

Secondly, the creation of the Internet 2000 project, which envisages providing internet access to 2 000 priority clients, including schools in particular, has been another valuable occurrence. The people in rural areas can greatly benefit from this. The co-operation between the Department of Communications and the Department of Health will help by using multimedia to bridge the gap and to provide rural areas with access to medical sources that would otherwise not have been accessible.

Another positive development is the licensing of Sentech to deliver fixed- line services. This partly brings the monopoly of Telkom to an end. This will not only put an end to the unhealthy monopoly of Telkom in the future, but will also bring about competition which will be to the benefit of consumers.

Telecommunications costs will inevitably be forced down by this.]

For much too long the telecommunications market for fixed-line services was dominated by Telkom. Under its licence conditions, among other things, was the right to be the exclusive provider of basic telecommunication services to South Africans for five years. The result has been that for five years South African telecommunications users, despite a boom in the global market, have endured different high costs in different services, and the attempt by Telkom to limit the activities of Internet service providers and value-added network services operators. Thus, due to the fact that Telkom’s monopoly is due to end, South Africans can eagerly look forward to the benefits of a competitive telecommunications market. Because of this positive effect that this scenario will have on consumers, the Minister and the department must be commended for these developments.

We hope that the duopoly in this field will not last forever, especially against the background of the widespread unhappiness in the industry. Our country has the potential to thrive in the information technology field but to do that we need good, cheap and widespread telecommunications.

The lack of an interconnect agreement between mobile network operators on SMS is preventing the roll-out of certain mobile value-added services. These cannot survive without a revenue-sharing regime among stakeholders in a proliferating revenue stream within the m-commerce sector. The negotiations between mobile operators have been protracted for far too long and require the urgent intervention of the Minister and Icasa, if we are to become globally competitive, especially with the early adoption of third- generation network services.

The recent reports of unsolicited e-mail and SMS marketing messages referred to as spam need to be addressed urgently. If not, consumers will simply switch off from these important e-commerce and m-commerce revenue sources to the detriment of the network operators and marketers alike. More responsible marketing standards must be generated by telecommunications and marketing companies, and they should be cast in a direct marketing code of conduct that would ensure that penalties are dealt out when, for example, marketers sell and acquire a database from a third party to market their offerings by using spam.

The challenge has reached such massive proportions that some countries are beginning to block the Internet and e-mail servers in certain countries that have allowed spam to proliferate unchecked. These challenges must be urgently addressed in an industry-generated e-commerce and m-commerce direct marketing code of conduct with should result in amendments to the relevant legislation and regulations.

Een area wat baie meer aandag verg, is die Poskantoor. Te veel klagtes word nog ontvang oor ‘n gebrek aan doeltreffende basiese posdienste. Hoewel die nuwe uitvoerende hoof van die Poskantoor met sy visie vir dié instelling ‘n groot indruk op die portefeulje komitee gemaak het, bly dit kommerwekkend dat die verbruiker steeds sukkel om behoorlike dienslewering te kry.

Dit is al in talle navorsingsprojekte genoem dat daar ‘n verband bestaan tussen geweldsprogramme op TV en geweld in die samelewing. Ander navorsers het dit weer ontken. Die feit bly staan dat ons met ‘n oormaat van geweld op televisie gebombardeer word. In ‘n land soos ons s’n waar mense so maklik van hulle besittings, en selfs hul lewens, beroof word op ‘n gewelddadige wyse, het die tyd aangebreek dat ons ernstig hierna moet kyk.

Ons hoor ook baie stemme wat deesdae opgaan vir die morele opbou van ons land en sy mense, maar sommige uitsaaiers wys nou skaamteloos pornografie op hulle skerms. Dit kan uiters skadelik wees, veral wanneer ``free to air’’ uitsaaiers dié soort programme uitsaai. Die vraag is of dié uitsaaiers daarop geregtig is om sulke programme uit te saai as daar na hulle lisensievoorwaardes gekyk word.

Die Nuwe NP steun die Kommunikasie begrotingspos. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[One area which requires far more attention is the Post Office. Too many complaints are still received about the lack of effective basic postal services. Even though the new chief executive officer of the Post Office made a great impression on the portfolio committee with his vision for this institution, it remains a matter of concern that the consumer still struggles to receive proper service delivery.

It has been mentioned in several research projects that there is a correlation between programmes containing violence on television and violence in society. Other researchers, again, have denied this. The fact remains that we are bombarded with an excess of violence on television. In a country such as ours where people are so easily robbed of their belongings, and even their lives, in a violent manner, the time has come for us to pay serious attention to this.

We also hear many voices these days in support of the moral upliftment of our country and its people, but some broadcasters are now shamelessly showing pornography on their screens. This can be extremely damaging, especially when ``free to air’’ broadcasters broadcast these kinds of programmes. The question, if we look at their licence conditions, is whether these broadcasters are entitled to broadcast such programmes.

The New NP supports the Communications Vote.]

Mr R D PIETERSE: Madam Speaker, I quote:

We must develop our own strategic response that will ensure that we meet the obligations to our people as identified in the Freedom Charter. Critical in this regard is the matter of human resource development. We have to exert maximum effort to train the necessary number of our people in all the fields required for the development, running and the management of the modern economics.

This again must be a natural effort in which we should consider the necessary expenditure, not as a cost, but as an investment in our future. We have to ensure that as many of our people as possible master modern technologies and integrate them in their social activities, including education, delivery of services and economic activities. This relates particularly to communication and information technology.

This is a quotation from a statement made by President Thabo Mbeki before the National Executive Committee of the ANC on 8 January 2002.

As these are our marching orders as Africans, please allow me to immediately ask the question: Where, in the context of Nepad, is Africa located in this debate? As the rest of the world, led by the G8, has accepted Nepad as a programme to awaken Africa as an economic giant, as it should be, South Africa should be seen to be taking the lead when developing its own economy.

Having said that, we should not forget that prior to 1994 South Africa was the bully of the continent, destabilising countries - particularly in the SADC region that dared to offer shelter and food to freedom fighters from South Africa. Hence one will find many economies of SADC countries are underdeveloped, courtesy of the pre-1994 South African military might. Whilst we should not live in the past, we must accept our past, as painful as it might be for some of us sitting here today. Only then can we develop and work towards a better future for all. We should also not only help our fellow South Africans out of guilt, but because it is correct. That is the only way to rebuild our beautiful continent.

Having said that, allow me to commend Comrade Minister and his department, which is led by an excellent director-general, Dr Andile Ngcaba. The Minister and his department have done great work in preparing this budget, whilst addressing pertinent questions.

Ek wil graag vir ‘n oomblik stilstaan by die media in die algemeen. Mediavryheid is een van die pilare waarop demokrasie gebou word - en dit is beslis in ons geval so - maar vryheid van wie ookal, is nie absoluut nie.

Net soos mediavryheid sy verantwoordelikheid het, het ons ook. Daarom moet ons die media beskerm en sy vryheid gee binne die verantwoordelikheid van alle demokrate.

Wanneer ons verskil, en ek glo ons sal somtyds verskil, en wanneer ons nie kan skik nie, kan ons nie mekaar te lyf gaan omdat ons nie saamstem nie - soos onlangs gedemonstreer is deur ‘n bekende kunstenaar.

Ons en vele andere wat hulself die beskermers van demokrasie en mediavryheid noem, het geskitter in ons stilte. Nie ‘n woord het van ons kant gekom om die aanval op die joernalis te verdoem nie. Ons stilte kan gesien word dat ons saamstem met die aanval op die joernalis, wat dan gesien kan word as ‘n aanval op mediavryheid. Hierdie aanvaller word selfs as ‘n held gesien deur sommige mense.

Die vraag wat ek dan wil vra, is: Kunstenaar of kuns?

Die afgelope tyd het die uitsaaier onder talle aanvalle deurgeloop. Sommige van die aanvalle was ongevraagd en onbillik teenoor die openbare uitsaaier, die SABC.

Ek dink dit is onregverdig om te kritiseer net omdat mens in opposisie is of om te kritiseer omdat jy ‘n spreekbeurt het en niks anders het om te sê nie. As mens niks goed het om te sê nie, wil ek tog aanbeveel dat so iemand sal stilbly en miskien kry die mense daarmee respek vir daardie persoon.

Mens kan nie aanhou steen en been kla en swartgallig wees en dan sê dit is my plig as lid van die opposisie nie. Wees konstruktief wanneer goed uitgewys word en word ‘n vrywilliger om die land te help opbou. Hierdie land behoort aan almal van ons wat dit bewerk en bewoon, beide wit en swart.

Verskeie mense beweer dat die SABC nie sy mandaat uitvoer nie, en dit is om in te lig, te onderrig en te vermaak. Maar daar word beweer dat te veel klem gelê word op vermaak. Ek wil tog aan die mense van die SABC wat hier is, sê dat as hulle kort raak aan materiaal, moet hulle maar net ‘n draai maak in die Parlement. Hulle behoort genoeg daarvan te kry.

Dieselfde kommentaar word genoem teenoor Telkom, van wie daar verwag word om wêreldklasdienste teen ‘n ondergemiddelde fooi te lewer en dan nog aan die einde van die periode winste te wys wat kompeterend is teenoor ‘n privaatinstansie.

Het die mense hul feite reg? Is behoorlike navorsing gedoen? Of is dit hoe ons voel enige tyd van die dag? Is dit ‘n geval van ons eie verantwoordelikheid teenoor ons kinders en familie afskuif aan iemand anders, wat sê daar is te veel porno en te veel geweld? Ons kyk nie na ons eie familie nie en nou is dit iemand anders se verantwoordelikheid. Moet alles verander terwyl ons weier om te verander of te stadig is om te verander?

Welkom tot die wêreld van globalisasie.

Ons kan natuurlik nie net klem lê op televisie nie. Ek wil byvoeg dat daar gedurig gepraat word oor die drie uitsaaiers - SABC, M-Net en e.tv. Ek glo dat die konstruktiewe gesprekke tussen hulle sal vrugte dra, vernaam wat sport betref.

Hier bedoel ek nie net sport van nasionale belang nie, maar ook die sogenaamde aspoestertjiesportsoorte. Elke sport wat deur vroue en gestremdes beoefen word, is aspoestersportsoorte en word nie sodanig gedek in die sogenaamde ``prime time’’ nie. Waar ons vir MNet vra om nie hul geldelike spiere te misbruik nie, is dit ook belangrik dat die SABC Topsport nie die ewige bedelaar bly nie. SABC moet kompeterend raak wat sy mandaat betref: Om in te lig, te onderrig en te vermaak.

Ons moet toesien dat senders op strategiese plekke geplaas word, sodat alle seine na elke uithoek van ons land gestuur word. Ons mense op die platteland verdien dit en betaal hulle lisensiegeld.

Ek wil ‘n spesiale beroep doen op ieder en elkeen van ons: Betaal ons lisensiegeld betyds en elke keer. Betaal die agb mnr Gerber sy lisensiegeld? Agb Kannemeyer? Agb Walters? As ons dit nie doen nie, het ons nie die reg om te kritiseer nie. Ons mense op die platteland, of dit nou Haarlem teen die Ooskaapse grens is of Ladysmith teen die Overberggrens; of dit Albertinia of Heidelberg of Stilbaai is, of waar ookal op die platteland, soek almal ‘n gelyke kans. Hulle bedel nie. Hulle praat Afrikaans. Hulle is hardwerkend. Hulle is vroue en die jeug en is van die trotsste Suid-Afrikaners wat mens kry. Ek betaal my lisensie.

Die ope en opregte vraag is natuurlik: Waar is Sentech in hierdie debat? Wat is hulle rol in die verskaffing of daarstelling van seine? Ek wil graag sien dat Sentech ‘n meer leidende rol speel wat seinverskaffing aan ons mense betref. Daarom glo ek dat wanneer die SABC hergestruktureer word in die Public Broadcasting Service'' en diePrivate Commercial Broadcasting Service’’, baie van die vrae beantwoord sal word.

Sentraal binne hierdie herstrukturering moet die kwessie van werkskepping wees. Elke keer wanneer een persoon sy werk verloor, is dit een persoon te veel, want die kettingreaksie daarop is meermale katastrofies. Herstrukturering kan nie gelykstaande wees aan werkverlies nie, maar eerder as werksgeleentheid met voorkeur aan ons vroue en die jeug. Werkverskaffing begin natuurlik by werkbehouding en daarom is werkopleiding en heropleiding van kardinale belang.

Die radio het nog altyd ‘n belangrike rol in ons lewens gespeel en sal moontlik nog vir ‘n baie lang tyd. En tog lyk dit asof ons so min tyd daaraan spandeer. Soos die radiogedeelte van die uitsaaiwese gedemokratiseer word, sien ons die gemeenskapradio baie sterk na vore tree en bied sterk kompetisie vir die publieke sowel as die privaatradiostasies. Al is daar sterk kompetisie van die gemeenskapsradios, ondersteun hulle die gemeenskap wat keuse en prys betref. Wat werkskepping direk en indirek betref, glo ek dat ander sektore by hulle kan leer.

Natuurlik vind ons gestremdes dit baie moeilik en irriterend om te verstaan hoekom die uitsaaiers geen respek vir hulle blyk te hê nie. Eerstens is daar natuurlik gebaretaal wat saam met alles wat gebeeldsend word, uitgesaai word. Ek verstaan dat dit redelik duur is om te voorsien - vernaam op so ‘n groot skaal, maar ons moet daarvoor beplan. Ons kan nie altyd geld as ‘n verskoning voorhou nie.

Tweedens is die kwessie van onderskrifte in programme wat uitgesaai word. U weet natuurlik dat talle van die programme wat van oorsee, veral van Amerika, aangekoop word, reeds onderskrifte het. Plaaslik ontwikkelde programme is van die uiterste belang ter wille van taal, werkskepping en kultuur, en daarom moet die nodige geld gevind word vir hierdie programme.

Ek wil ‘n sterk pleidooi lewer vir die gestremde kinders wat net in gebare- taal kan kommunikeer. Kom ons maak seker dat kinderprogramme met gebaretaal beskikbaar is. Niks kan belangriker wees as om in ‘n mens se eie taal te kan kommunikeer nie - hetsy Afrikaans, Engels, Xhosa of Zulu. Dieselfde passie en hartstog wat ons vir ons eie moedertaal het, het gestremdes vir hulle gebaretaal. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [I would like to pause for a moment at the media in general. Press freedom is one of the pillars on which democracy is built - and that is certainly true in our case - but freedom of whomever is not absolute.

Just as press freedom has its responsibilities, so do we. We must therefore protect the media and give it freedom within the responsibility of all democrats.

When we differ, and I believe that we will sometimes differ, and when we cannot reach agreement, we cannot attack one another because we do not agree - as recently demonstrated by a well-known artist.

We and many others who call themselves the protectors of democracy and press freedom were deafening in our silence. Not a word came from our side to condemn the attack on the journalist. Our silence can be viewed as agreeing with the attack on the journalist, which can be viewed as an attack on press freedom. This attacker is even seen as a hero by some people. The question I would then like to ask is: artist or art?

The broadcaster has recently suffered numerous attacks. Some of the attacks were uncalled-for and unfair towards the public broadcaster, the SABC.

I think it is unfair to criticise merely because one is in opposition or to criticise because one has an opportunity to speak and one has nothing else to say. When one has nothing good to say, I would like to recommend that such a person keep quiet and perhaps in that way people will gain respect for that person.

One cannot continue to complain endlessly and be pessimistic and then say that is my duty as a member of the opposition. Be constructive when things are pointed out and become a volunteer to help build the country. This country belongs to all of us who live and work in it, both white and black.

Various people are alleging that the SABC is not executing its mandate, and that is to inform, to teach and to entertain. It is being alleged that too much emphasis is put on entertainment. I would just like to say to the people from the SABC who are here, that if they are short of material they simply have to come to Parliament. They should find enough of it.

The same comment is made with regard to Telkom, which is expected to deliver a world-class service at a lower-than-average fee and then still, at the end of the day, to show a profit which can compete with that of a private institution.

Do people have their facts right? Has proper research been done? Or is this how we feel any time of the day? Is this a case of shifting our own responsibility towards our children and families to somebody else, who says there is too much pornography and too much violence? We are not seeing to our own family and now it is someone else’s responsibility. Must everything change while we refuse to change or are too slow in changing? Welcome to the world of globalisation.

We can, of course, not only emphasise television. I would like to add that the three broadcasters are constantly talked about - SABC, M-Net and e.tv. I believe that the constructive discussions between them will bear fruit, particularly as far as sport is concerned.

Here I am not only talking about sport of national interest, but also the so-called Cinderella sports. Each sport practised by women and the disabled is a Cinderella sport and is not really covered in the so-called prime time. While we are asking M-Net not to abuse their financial muscle, it is also important that SABC Topsport does not remain the eternal beggar. The SABC must become competitive as far as its mandate is concerned: to inform, to educate and to entertain.

We must see to it that transmitters are placed in strategic places, so that all signals can be sent to every corner of our country. Our people in the rural areas deserve this and pay their licence fees.

I would like to make a special appeal to each and every one of us: pay our licence fees on time and every time. Does the hon Mr Gerber pay his licence fees? Hon Kannemeyer? Hon Walters? If we do not do so, we do not have the right to criticise. Our people in the rural areas, be it Haarlem on the Eastern Cape border or Ladysmith on the Overberg border; be it Albertinia or Heidelberg or Stillbaai, or wherever in the rural areas, are all seeking an equal chance. They are not begging. They speak Afrikaans. They are hard- working. They are women and the youth and are among the proudest South Africans one can find. I pay my licence.

The honest and sincere question is, naturally: Where is Sentech in this debate? What is their role in the provision or establishment of signals? I would like to see Sentech playing a more leading role as regards signal provision to our people. For that reason I believe that when the SABC is restructured into the Public Broadcasting Service and the Private Commercial Broadcasting Service, many of the questions will be answered.

Central within this restructuring must be the issue of job creation. Every time one person loses their job, that is one person too many, because the chain reaction is frequently catastrophic. Restructuring cannot be equal to job loss, but rather to job creation, with preference given to our women and the youth. Naturally, job creation begins with job retention and for that reason vocational training and retraining are of cardinal importance.

The radio has always played an important role in our lives and will possibly do so for a very long time. And yet is seems that we spend so little time on it. As the radio component of broadcasting is democratised, we see the community radios coming forward very strongly and offering stiff competition for the public as well as the private radio stations. Although there is stiff competition from the community radios, they support the community as far as choice and price are concerned. As far as job creation is concerned, directly and indirectly, I believe that other sectors can learn from them.

Naturally, our disabled people find it very difficult and irritating to understand why the broadcasters appear to have no respect for them. Firstly, of course, there is sign language which is broadcast with everything that is televised. I understand that this is reasonably expensive to provide - particularly on such a large scale, but we must plan for it. We cannot always use money as an excuse.

Secondly, there is the issue of subtitles in programmes which are broadcast. Members know, of course, that many of the programmes which are purchased overseas, particularly from America, already have subtitles. Locally developed programmes are of the utmost importance for the sake of language, job creation and culture, and the necessary funding must therefore be found for these programmes.

I want to make a strong appeal for the disabled children who can only communicate in sign language. Let us make sure that children’s programmes with sign language are available. Nothing can be more important than to be able to communicate in one’s own language - be it Afrikaans, English, Xhosa or Zulu. Disabled people have the same passion and keenness for sign language as we have for our own mother tongue.]

Sign language is a very expressive language. My advice is that one must watch it and fall in love with it. Let us not continue to use money as an excuse for not delivering on the question of language. Please find the necessary funds and see these funds as an investment in human resource development, and not as a cost.

Maar die kwessie van taal kan nie net die verantwoordelikheid van die SABC wees nie. Waar plaas ons e.tv en M-Net? Wat doen hulle wat die ander 11 tale bevorder? Wat meer nog van gebare taal. Wat is hulle gemeenskapsverantwoordelikheid, of sal ek vra, het hulle so ‘n verantwoordelikheid? Die uitsaaiers moet meer met mekaar praat wat die uitdagings betref. Die uitsaaier, wat so baie invloed oor ons kinders, ons jeug en selfs die ouers het, moet aangewend word vir die heropbou van morele standaarde in ons gemeenskap. Parallel moet hulle as deel van hul gemeenskapsdiens ingespan word in ons stryd teen byvoorbeeld misdaad en Vigs. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[However, the issue of language cannot only be the responsibility of the SABC. Where do we place e.tv and M-Net? What are they doing to promote the other 11 languages? Not to mention sign language. What is their community responsibility, or should I ask, do they have such a responsibility?

The broadcasters should talk to one another more regarding the challenges. The broadcaster, which has so much influence over our children, our youth and even the parents, must be utilised for the regeneration of moral standards in our community. At the same time, as part of their community service, they must be included in our battle against crime and Aids, for example.] But not all is doom and gloom. Good work is taking place, maybe not fast enough; transformation is taking place, definitely not fast enough; deliveries are happening. Maybe it is the reality of pace; maybe we are too impatient and are becoming our own worst enemies.

We should all get up and mobilise our constituencies that we claim we are representing and get involved as volunteers to rebuild this beautiful country of ours. We should stop being armchair critics and running down our broadcasters as we do with Telkom.

I want to thank the outgoing councillors, Libby, Yasmin and Willie. I also want to thank the department and the staff, the SABC and the chief volunteer in particular, the Minister of Communications. The ANC supports this Budget Vote. [Applause.]

Mr S ABRAM: Chairperson, may I congratulate you on your elevation to the Chair and express the hope that you will have a very fruitful term. Prior to 1994, the South African communication sector was mainly characterised by international isolation and insufficient co-operation in the field of electronic commerce, as well as either on overregulated communication environment and insufficient mechanisms for the regulation thereof, or a lack of access by the poorer sectors of society to communication tools.

In addition, communication policies and processes did not make provision for matters such as gender representation or the economic empowerment of women. The erstwhile South African Communication Service focused most of its attention on conveying the Government of the day’s policies internally, resulting in not enough focus being placed on securing a position for South Africa in the international communication sector.

From an historical perspective, most of the changes and developments in the communication sector can be traced back to the adoption of South Africa’s first democratic Constitution. The result was that the communication sector shifted its position towards becoming more inclusive by focusing on improving the quality of life of all South Africans, to assist in creating an information society.

Apart from meeting the newly established democratic obligations, this became an essential characteristic of the South African communication sector, because South Africa started to evolve as an active role-player in the international arena. This placed the enormous responsibility of the liberalisation of the IT and ICT sectors on the communication sector in bridging the digital divide between developed and developing countries which, for obvious reasons, did not receive the deserved attention during the period preceding 1994.

The transformation of the broadcasting sector in South Africa was based on the challenge of building a new democratised nation. The role of the sector is to construct a vibrant and democratic dispensation which focuses on fostering a national and cultural identity, as well as equality and respect for the fundamental rights of all South Africans. It became clear that large sections of the population, deprived of a choice of service, mainly relied on radio to meet their broadcasting needs. The reforms in this sector, therefore, focused on infrastructure distribution and resource allocation, including frequencies, human resource development and financial assistance, a more just language distribution, universal coverage and access. This process started with the Independent Broadcasting Authority Act.

In 1996, the IBA published a discussion paper on community broadcasting services, with the purpose of inviting comments on advertising, sponsorship, financial and other business information, record-keeping, programming obligations and fines for noncompliance with licence conditions. This was the start of the important process of placing emphasis on the regional broadcasting needs in South Africa, with particular reference to community broadcasting services. I have to complete my speech!

While it is clear that the Department of Communications is committed to extending its services to all South Africans, the department should be encouraged to focus on its informative role, mainly in the following two areas: existing and newly established multipurpose community centres should be encouraged to extend their services to include training and adding skills in the use of information technology. This initiative is underpinned by the Nepad schools initiative, with the goal of ensuring that every African child is technologically literate within 10 years. The initiative should be extended to all existing and newly established MPCs. It should not necessarily be a Government-driven project; but private-sector partnerships could be helpful in this process.

Finally, the involvement of the department in combating the scourge of HIV/Aids, given its infrastructure and access to expertise in this field, is at this stage unclear. [Time expired.]

Mr V C GORE: Mr Chairperson, Minister, hon members, today’s debate will be remembered, not because of rands and cents, but rather because 7 May 2002 marks the end of the exclusivity period for Telkom and the beginning of competition.

However, today there is not going to be any real competition. At this stage, I would like to remind the hon Kekana that the reason why Telkom has managed to get such high revenues is because they have had no competition in the past. The South African consumer still does not have a choice, nor will there be lower prices, better services or even an increased number of telephones. South Africa will only get real competition in a few months’ time, or is it in a few years’ time?

The reason for this delay is quite simple: a bit of sitting on the fence with a flip-flop here and there, and at times complete inactivity on the part of the department. This behaviour is rather contagious. South Africa still waits with bated breath for the IPO for Telkom from the DTI.

Five years ago to this day, the House granted Telkom the right to be the only fixed-line operator in exchange for a number of universal service obligations. There can be no doubt that Telkom kept to the letter of the obligations and installed all of the required telephone lines.

However, how many of these lines are no longer working because of disconnection? Half a million in the year 2000 alone. It is obvious that this model has not worked, and it is vitally important that this country does not make the same mistake when the SNO is licensed.

When competition does eventually arrive in South Africa, a predictable and stable regulatory environment will become even more crucial. In this regard, the DA welcomes the recent announcement that Icasa and the competition commission have reached an agreement on their areas of jurisdiction in the broadcasting and telecommunications industries. This agreement will free up much-needed resources for Icasa and loosen the grip of the DRC on the regulator.

In addition, many of the problems that have previously been outlined could have been avoided had this House voted more for Icasa and ensured alternative allocation avenues, as suggested by my colleague, the hon Dene Smuts, and by the hon Kekana. These two measures would better equip Icasa to retain the human capital and avoid their staff being poached by a better- paying industry.

In conclusion, if competition is going to succeed, and if the industry is going to deliver low prices, real choice, better services and more telephones, then the regulator must be independent and be well-resourced, and operate in a stable and predictable environment, pushed on by clear-cut policy directions formulated by Government. Perhaps, then, South Africa will witness the revolution that the then Minister Jay Naidoo promised this country in 1997. [Applause.]

Mr M A MAZIYA: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, hon guests, today I am starting my debate in a very special mood. I am proud to confirm that, yes, the ANC has achieved many of its goals in bettering the lives of people in our country.

The citizens’ Post Office and MPCC are some of the achievements in the most rural of rural areas.

Akusadingi ukuthi ube nocingo endlini ukuze ukwazi ukufinyelela ezihlotsheni zakho noma kwamanye amazwe. Akusiyo incwadi yodwa futhi engakuxhumanisa nezihlobo zakho njengasemandulo ngoba nasemakhaya seyikhona indlela yokuxhumana ngekhompiyutha okuthiwa i-e-mail. Lena iyona ndlela ehlakaniphile yezinga eliphezulu lokuxhumana ngokukhuluma nomuntu noma ngabe ukuphi. Le ndlela ibizwa ngokuthi ikheli labahlali elihanjiswa ngokwekhompiyutha. Asikho isidingo sokubhala incwadi uma lolu hlobo lweposi lwamakhompiyutha lukhona lapho uhlala khona.

Bakithi i-ANC indala futhi nemisebenzi yayo iyabonakala ngoba ngalesi sikhathi esincane seyihambe ibanga elide kwezamaposi. Ubani owayekucabanga ukuthi uyohlala abhale incwadi, ihambe ngaleso sikhathi engazange athenge isitembu nemvilophi ngisho ukusukuma nje lapho ahleli khona? Asibonge bakithi! (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[You no longer need to have a telephone in your house to be able to reach your relatives or other countries. It is not only a letter that can put you in touch with your relatives, like in the past, because even in the rural areas a way of communicating with computers through e-mail is available. This is an intelligent way of conducting high-level communication by talking to a person no matter where the person is. This way is known as addressing residents through computers. There is no need to write letters if such computer post is available where you live.

Good people, the ANC is old and the fruits of its work are visible, because in such a short period of time it has gone a long distance as far as the communication sector is concerned. Whoever thought that he would sit down and write a letter that would be sent at the same time without buying a stamp and an envelope, and also without moving from where one is sitting? Good people, let us say thank you!]

I want to admit that we believe that regardless of the moratorium on the closing of Post Office outlets, post offices are still being closed in some rural areas, and months later what one calls a postnet, with urgent post office services, is opened, which is privately owned. We in the ANC feel that this may not be the way to go. We still want to see the roll-out of postal services, as opposed to the closure of Post Office outlets, unless there are reasons that are convincing to the communities affected.

We also understand that the rates charged by the agency outlets and postnet are more than the rates charged by the normal, traditional post offices, and we want this to be changed. Today we see the rolling out of much- improved postal services for people who had addresses but were not able to receive letters at their street addresses. They are now getting their post the same way a person in Sandton would get his or her letter. People in the informal settlements, where there are no street addresses, have postboxes placed at their doorstep, without getting into a taxi in order to get their post.

One must admit that the delays in the postal delivery service are still cause for concern. Some people in the rural areas are reminded by the police that they have not paid their fines or attended court hearings. When these letters or summonses are delayed somewhere in the system, it is not good enough to say that these are delivered on time. When we say: ``on time’’, do we mean one week or one month? What do we mean? A clear commitment on our part, and feedback from our communities, will give us a sense of what we mean.

Kubuye kwasinceda kakhulu, ngeso elihlakaniphile likaNgqongqoshe u-Comrade Matsepe-Casaburri, ukuthi aqede ubudlelwane nalaba abaphesheya umonakalo ungakabi mkhulu kakhulu. Babethe bazoguqula indlela yokusebenza yeposi kanti lokho kwakumosha. Wakubona lokhu wayesethi kungcono bayeke sizozibonela.

Sibonile emva kwalokho ukuthi kuye kwabakhona izinguquko eziningi. Abaningi basazozisola ekuhambeni kwesikhathi. I-ANC lena bafowethu ihamba kancane kodwa yaze yakufica uzozisola. Baningi abayozisola. Kukho konke lokhu sishayela uNgqongqoshe ihlombe. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[It also helped us a lot that the Minister, Comrade Matsepe-Casaburri, through her intelligent eye, ended ties with overseas people, which reduced the damage. They said they would change the way post operates, but that is expensive. She saw this and she said they should leave it, we ourselves would see what we could do about it.

We noticed after that that lots of changes were made. Some will have regrets as time goes on. The ANC moves slowly, but it eventually had regrets. Many people will have regrets. But for all these things we applaud the Minister.]

Today the Post Office, through the Postbank which is still part thereof, is able to assist people who do not have proof of employment, but have proof of identity, to open banking accounts, which allows them to have ATM cards that they can use on any ATM machine for deposits or withdrawals. To open an account, one no longer has to have R200 or more, but only R50. One can open an account at any Post Office outlet, including the so-called agency outlets. What remains is for Parliament to have legislation that can interpret the Post Bank’s independence from the Post Office.

Yes, continued access to facilities is still a privilege enjoyed by the Postbank’s clients. Long hours at the ATM queue, if one saves with the Postbank, will be a thing of the past.

It is also important to educate our communities. The centre where the public information terminal is situated, which the hon the Minister opened in Winnie Mandela township near Thembisa, was vandalised and some computers were stolen. What I mean is that the service that we provided for that community no longer exists. We want to plead with our communities to look after their property, because that terminal belongs to the people of Winnie Mandela township. Now that the community has forfeited that service, we are saying that our budget cannot cater every financial year for one service to the same area that has a few criminals who do not care or even know who pays for that service.

Developments in both the Post Office and the Postbank have brought with them a lot of confidence in our country. In that respect, we must congratulate our Minister, for it is the knowledge that she has brought to this Ministry that has brought communication in our country where it is today.

Our Minister has today appointed the chairperson of the oversight ministerial committee. The confidence shown us by other countries who have our Minister advise them on communication matters and the benefits reaped by South African companies that provide services to other countries, call for an applause for both the Minister and the department for carrying out the mandate of the ANC. We can now proudly say that we are improving the lives of our people. It is for this reason that the ANC supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]

Mr L M GREEN: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister and members, the role of communication is vital for any emerging democracy. South Africa has the communications infrastructure to greatly assist in the development of our region. The Nepad initiative, for instance, can create the launchpad for a communications rebirth in Africa. The liberation of our telecommunications sector can greatly contribute to this wave of change on our continent.

The budget of R823 million for this budget year may sound like a reasonable amount. What we need to take into consideration, though, is the high cost for keeping our communications industry efficient, especially at administrative, maintenance and skills levels. In order to effectively service this nation, we need to beef up the powers and functions of our communications regulatory authority.

Telkom will be facing a competitive challenge in the near future. Price wars and service challenges will affect the average consumer and if the regulatory authority is seen to be weak, the client will be at the mercy of such service providers.

The recent difference between Icasa and Telkom about tariff hikes is regrettable, especially in the light of the fact that the matter was taken to court at great expense to the taxpayer. Why must Icasa, which is entirely funded by the taxpayer, take Telkom to court if the matter could have been settled out of court at no expense to the taxpayer?

The concept of co-operative governance should not only be applied at local, provincial and national level, but should be applied by the parastatal companies and the regulatory authority. Icasa must explore ways, which could include mediation and arbitration procedures, that would allow service providers access to conflict resolution mechanisms in the event of a stalemate. Icasa cannot waste a single cent of its budget of R111 million in taking parastatals to court. However, if Icasa is taken to court by service providers, it must have the means to defend itself.

We as MPs must exercise our oversight role if we observe an increase in the amount of litigation experienced by Icasa. If a community radio station with very little resources takes Icasa to court because it views a decision by Icasa to be partial and unjust, and if the court rules against Icasa, then this becomes a cause for concern. The value of a good regulator should not be judged by the amount of court cases that are won, but by the amount of difficult rulings it makes without the intervention of the Department of Justice.

We need to regulate our communication industry more efficiently in order to avoid impropriety and shoddy service. Communication is a powerful tool and should be used effectively to empower our nation.

The ACDP supports this Budget Vote.

Dr P W A MULDER: Mr Chairperson, the FF would like to congratulate the hon the Minister on the different new developments in her department, and the new initiatives taken by her department.

Because communication technology is changing all the time at such a rapid pace, this department must keep abreast of developments.

Die belangrikheid van hierdie departement lê nie net in die hantering van nuwe tegnologie nie. Die agb Minister se departement het ‘n baie belangrike rol te speel ten einde te verseker dat vryheid van spraak en ‘n demokratiese kultuur in Suid-Afrika heers.

Die gebeure in Zimbabwe waar die uitsaaimedia oorwegend onder staatsbeheer is, onderstreep hierdie feit. Mense sê maklik dat dit nie hier kan gebeur nie. Dit kan nie hier gebeur nie as die departement die regte atmosfeer en gees uitdra. Daarom sê ek: Ons kort meer radiostasies en nie minder nie. Ons kort meer stemme en meer verskeidenheid. Die Minister het verduidelik dat ‘n gebrek aan personeel by Icasa die vertraging in nuwe lisensies veroorsaak. Dis moeilik om te verstaan. Die wet maak dit moontlik vir gemeenskapsradios en dat ons hulle daar kan stel. Die wet maak dit verder moontlik dat daar twee soorte gemeenskapsradiostasies kan wees, naamlik die geografiese gemeenskap - onthou u hoe ons ure geworstel het om dit te definieer - en dan ‘n gemeenskap van belange. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The importance of this department does not only lie in the handling of new technology. The hon the Minister’s department has a very important role to play in order to ensure that freedom of speech and a democratic culture prevail in South Africa.

The events in Zimbabwe, where the broadcasting media is mostly under state control, emphasises this fact. People easily say that it cannot happen here. It cannot happen here if the department conveys the right atmosphere and spirit. That is why I am saying: We need more radio stations and not fewer. We need more voices and greater diversity. The Minister explained that a lack of staff at Icasa is the cause of the delay in respect of new licences. This is difficult to understand. The Act provides for community radio and that we may establish it. The Act furthermore provides that there may be two kinds of community radio, namely the geographic community - do hon members remember how we struggled for hours to define this - and a community of interest.]

According to the Act, it is possible to have both a geographical community and a community of interest. Last year, Icasa refused more than 70% of the community-of-interest radio licence applications. In the same period, only 26% of the geographic licence applications were refused. This is totally out of balance, and creates the impression that Icasa has taken sides in the debate between geographical and community-of-interest radio licences.

I want to come to the SABC. I want to congratulate them in reaching 1,5 million new listeners, hopefully in their own languages. Die agb Kekana en die agb Pieterse het hier gepraat oor taal en hoe belangrik taal is en dat mense dit in hul eie taal moet hoor. Hulle het veral gepleit daarvoor dat nuusprogramme en aktualiteitsprogramme in mense se eie tale na hulle uitgesaai moet word. Die VF stem heelhartig hiermee saam.

Tog ervaar ons steeds meer frustrasies met die SABC en dan spesifiek met die nuusafdeling. Ek weet nie of hulle hier agter verteenwoordig is nie. Ek sien nie van hul senior mense nie. Die probleem is die volgende: Engels word al hoe meer en meer gebruik en as die VF in hierdie Raad Afrikaans praat, dan word mens deur die SABC Nuus geïgnoreer. Die argument is dat die pakkie in Engels saamgestel word en in Engels uitgestuur word. Dit raak nie net Afrikaans nie. Mnr Ndlovu van die IVP wat gereeld in Zulu praat om sy teikengehoor daar buite te bereik, ervaar dieselfde frustrasie, aangesien alles toenemend meer Engels gemaak word. Dit is onaanvaarbaar, veral aangesien die SABC sy nuusdiens wil uitbrei.

Ons het dieselfde frustrasie nou by Monitor. Die buitelandse korrespondente wat in Afrikaans verslag gedoen het, is gestop om verslag te doen. Ek sou graag wil weet: Hoekom? Die program is nou oorwegend Engels, want die buitelandse korrespondente word nie meer betaal nie. Ons kry nie uitbreiding in tale nie. Ons kry al hoe meer en meer beperkinge op die verskillende tale. Wie het hierdie besluit geneem? Waarom word die besluit geneem? Hoe kan ons maak dat die verskillende tale in nuusprogramme gehoor word en nie andersom nie? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The hon Kekana and the hon Pieterse spoke here about language and how important language is and that people should hear it in their own languages. They made a special plea that news programmes and actuality programmes should be broadcast in people’s own languages. The FF wholeheartedly agrees with this.

We are nevertheless only experiencing increasing frustration with the SABC, and then specifically with the news department. I do not know whether they are represented at the back here. I do not see any of their senior people. The problem is the following: English is spoken to an increasing degree and when the FF speaks Afrikaans in this House, one is ignored by SABC News. The argument is that the package is composed in English and broadcast in English. This does not affect Afrikaans only. Mr Ndlovu of the IFP, who regularly speaks Zulu to reach his target audience out there, experiences the same frustration, because everything is being Anglicised to an increasing extent. This is unacceptable, especially as the SABC wishes to expand its news service.

We now have the same frustration with Monitor. The foreign correspondent who reported in Afrikaans was stopped from reporting. I would like to know: Why? The programme is now mainly English, because the foreign correspondents are no longer paid. We have no expansion of languages. We encounter more and more limitations on the various languages. Who made this decision? Why has the decision been made? How can we ensure that the various languages are heard in news broadcasts, and not the other way round?] Ms M R MORUTOA: Chairperson, members of the Cabinet, hon members of Parliament, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to dedicate this, my maiden speech in the National Assembly, to one of the strong women who fought for the liberation of this country, Comrade June Mlangeni. [Applause.]

The legacy of apartheid and colonialism and the struggle against this legacy will never be complete until all South Africans have access to new communications technologies, which are today critical for consolidation of democracy and economic development.

The voice of the poor, especially that of women, needs to be heard, including here in the corridors of Parliament. The voices that continue to be heard in our country remain those of the privileged few who have access to the infrastructure and tools needed to communicate their views and concerns.

A quick look at who makes submissions and lobbies the lawmakers during public hearings tells a story. The story is that they are white, male and represent a minority in our country. From among the poor, the majority of whom are women, those who come are few and, in most cases, absent when it comes to submissions.

The story is, again, that the majority of our people do not have access to the means that will enable them to be active participants in the decision- making processes, including those happening in Parliament.

The majority of households in rural areas and underserviced areas are headed by women. For them, access to a telephone is a lifeline.

It was recently reported in the newspapers that more than 50% of the lines were cut off by Telkom. When Telkom cut these lines, they must think carefully about what they are doing and about the social impact of their action.

Kaloku, ngoomama abajongene nempilo yabantwana emakhaya, kwa namakhaya. Bayaxhamleka ke xa uTelkom ezinqumamisile iinkonzo zakhe zonxibelelwano, nto leyo ebangela ukuba kube nzima ukwenza nawaphina amalungiselelo ngengokuya kwagqirha, ukufowunela isibhedlela okanye abize nokuba ngubani na ukuze aze kubanceda. Loo nto yenye yeenkathazo. Yiyo loo nto ke sisithi ezi zinto zonke ziba yinkathazo kubantu abangoomama. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[Since it is the women’s responsibility to look after their families and children, they struggle when Telkom terminates its telecommunication services. This causes anyone with children in the house to struggle to find somebody to help them. This is the reason why we say these things become problematic to women.]

They must know that their action takes away a lifeline that women depend on. We agree that our people must pay for the services they receive, but we must also be mindful of the impact of total disconnection from these services. This situation cannot be allowed to continue. It undermines the ideals enshrined in our Constitution and is a betrayal of the memories of those who made sacrifices, so that South Africa can be free. It betrays the memories of women like Comrade June Mlangeni, Lilian Ngoyi, Helen Joseph, Dora Tamana, Dorothy Nyembe and others.

The existence of the Universal Service Agency, community radio stations, soon to be established media diversity, the development agency and similar organisations remains important, because the centrality of the universal service and access to the reconstruction and development of our country is a key factor. These bodies need to continue to have the collective effort to rebuild our country and contribute in enabling the majority of our people - especially those in the rural areas, where over 60% of our population reside, the majority of whom are women - to be key actors in our democracy and tell their own story.

They need to continue to help increase the capacity of ordinary people to participate in governance and economic development. We know that it will not be easy, given the enormity of the legacy created by apartheid neglect. The challenge facing all of us is to ensure universal service and access for all our people, and challenge poverty, centuries of underdevelopment and marginalisation.

The importance of this task requires all in society to make their contribution. Have we all played our part? Can the opposition, especially those leading women in their ranks, put aside their party-political interests and join in the effort to ensure universal service and access to the women of our country? [Interjections.] Yes, I am also referring this to my colleagues in the opposition parties, Dene Smuts and the hon Sue Vos. The women of this country need us and we dare not let them down. Let us unite and work together as women on this one. [Applause.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, may I take this opportunity to congratulate the hon Morutoa on her maiden speech. Communication, how do we survive without it and when is it not in operation? Even silence has a message and is a form of communication. Communication comes in innumerable forms, some costless while others are costly. Communication ventures near and far, but is necessary for existence. Communication is a link to each other; it is our link to the world and to ourselves.

Today communication has been upgraded by technology, and our prime means of communicating is technology. Posted letters are now replaced by e-mail and fax, from libraries to Internet, from carbon copies to photocopies - I can go on and on. The variety of forms of communication that one can exhibit is enormous.

The MF is aware of the enormous responsibility that the Department of Communications is given. We note the main authority vested in it regarding the development and implementation of policy concerning telecommunications, as well as postal and broadcasting services. Looking at the budget allocated to this department, the MF is confident that the Department of Communications will utilise it to the best of their abilities in view of their objectives and programmes.

The MF is impressed that the department works hard, not just at development but also at accessibility, which certainly serves to cross the divide of the past. The department’s work towards state-owned entities has been just as reassuring. The department’s works on telecommunications and broadcasting has been beneficial and the MF applauds their work in rural development, where they provide services and accessibility to underserviced communities. The effort to assist schools with IT equipment to connect to the Internet contributes not only to accessibility, but to education too.

Postal services have been hindered by strikes and dissatisfaction over the past year. The MF notes the policies that the department hopes to put in place, so as to overcome the dissatisfaction. Postal services have to continue. They are a means to meet so many deadlines, both business and personal. We cannot afford any closed doors. This also relates to the holders of postal banking accounts that are made unavailable by such setbacks. It would therefore be appreciated if policies were put in place so as to avoid this dissatisfaction and maintain a smooth running of the sector.

Communication is important, we know that. The proper conveyance of our intentions in what we are doing has earnestly been estimated. The MF supports this Vote. We South Africans are proud that our communication has reached the moon and we have confidence in our Minister of Communications. Once more, siyaya! [we are on our way!] [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members on my left, I know the business before the House is very exciting, but I think you should reflect on it a bit more quietly, if you do not mind.

Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, hon Minister and members, I would like to thank the hon Dene Smuts for allocating a third of the DA speaking time to the Post Office. This is in strong contrast to the pure neglect of the Post Office by the ruling party. Despite my appeal at the beginning of the year for the Post Office to be placed on the committee’s yearly programme and despite my further appeal to the chairperson in the form of a letter, the Post Office has been ignored by the Portfolio Committee on Communications this year.

The borrowing of R1 billion from the Postbank by the Post Office was reported in the press. There is still no clarity on why the Post Office needed the money, nor on how it intends to repay it. Of the R1,5 billion subsidy announced late last year, R600 million was given to the Post Office for the 2000-01 financial year. However, only R22 million went to the Post Bank. Can the Minister clarify whether this was a form of repayment, or alternatively the committee should call in the Post Office CEO to come and explain himself.

The moving of the Postbank head office from Bloemfontein to Johannesburg seems to have been shelved, as only 30 out of the 164 employees agreed to relocate. Then in February this year we had the suspension of Mr Peter Masemola, the Chief Operating Officer, and the postal regulator, Mrs Burara Kakaza, while she was dealing with the tariff increases. I believe that Mrs Kakaza is still suspended with full pay after three months, because the department cannot find a chairperson to deal with the disciplinary hearing. The taxpayers are being ripped off, yet again.

Then we had the debacle concerning the tariff increases which, according to section 5(13) of the Post Office contract, limits any tariff increase to that of CPI. However, the Post Office asked for higher-than-inflation increases and the Minister ran roughshod over the very regulations which had been put in place to protect the consumer from exploitation. The increases amount to a declaration by the Minister that Government cares very little for the poor, who mostly make use of the basic postal service to communicate with their families.

Another breach of the contract was a stipulation that by 31 October last year, the Post Office had to submit details of proposed tariff increases to the Post Office regulator. However, this was only done on 6 December, causing the tariff increases to become effective 21 days later and costing the taxpayer a further R12 million in the process. Any one of the above should have spurred any committee worth its salt into action. Sadly to say, nothing was done.

However, the woes continue. Just last week two Post Office officials were shot dead in a tragic incident in Bloemfontein. It appears that not even basic security measures that are the norm in private banks are in place for the protection of our staff, especially at month end when huge amounts of money are changing hands. Also last week, another top official, Mr Jannie Visagie, the Post Office’s company secretary, was suspended. The DA would like to know from the Minister in her reply why he was suspended and how much keeping him suspended is costing the taxpayer.

The DA is also concerned about another relationship taking place. Mr Radebe, while being a director of a Post Office subsidiary, is also a director of a consultancy firm which has just been awarded a contract by the Post Office to regulate the courier company. I would like the Minister to elaborate on that as well in her reply.

I sincerely hope that the Minister will shed some light on this issue and others that I have just raised. It seems that I am the only person exercising an oversight role of the Post Office. It is high time the ANC MPs started doing their job and earning their keep. [Applause.]

Ms N S MTSWENI: Chairperson, it is a pity that the member who has just left the podium does not even attend committee meetings. He is therefore not aware of what is happening in the committee. [Interjections.] He does not know that today we afforded them 12 minutes in the postal services debate, because we know that it is important. [Interjections.] They always howl like that, even in the committee!

Sihlalo, Malunga wePalamende aqakathekileko, Malunga ahlezi phezulu, ngiyathokoza bona ngibe nani namhlanjesi. Ilanga lana mhlanjesi lilanga eliqakatheke khulu-khulu kwamambala ku-Telkom. I-Telkom lapha eSewula Afrika igide yaqaleka. Nakuyingoma yona iyigide yezwakala. Ihlombe lizwakele. (Translation of Ndebele paragraph follows.)

[Chairperson, members of Parliament, members sitting in the gallery, I am grateful that they are with us today. Today is an important day for Telkom, because they have made their mark in South Africa. If it were a song I would say they have sung it well; the applause has been heard.]

As we speak here today we are faced with exciting times in the area of telecommunications. Only five months ago, the third mobile operator, Cell C, was launched. We understand that they are doing remarkably well. In such a short time, they have introduced exciting new packages and services for their clients. Customers have welcomed this competition with a great deal of enthusiasm. It is no wonder that Cell C has already signed up nearly half a million subscribers. This is unprecedented. They are confident that they will meet their target, which is to capture 20% of the market in the next five years.

Moreover, this venture has already injected over $200 million into the economy. It hopes to create 2 500 direct jobs and another 10 000 jobs as they roll out their services. Furthermore, as we introduce more managed liberalisation in the area of telecommunications, we are now on the eve of licensing the second national operator to compete with Telkom.

The new Telecommunications Amendment Act of 2001 has many exciting spinoffs both for South Africans as a whole and small business in particular. South Africa is abuzz with excitement in anticipation of the new services and facilities we are about to witness being rolled out. Telkom has, of course, done a sterling job during their period of exclusivity over the last five years. On behalf South Africa, I wish to express our sincere gratitude and thanks to Telkom for their direct contribution to advancing our society and for the delivery of services to millions of our people. They have met and indeed exceeded the target of their universal service obligations.

The hon the Minister has already mentioned the figures, so I will not go back to them. Notwithstanding these successes, I wish to bring to light a few shortcomings that Telkom can avoid so as to deliver a better service to their clientele.

I wish to highlight the following observations, both as a consumer and a member of Parliament representing a rural constituency. Firstly, I want to comment on Telkom’s billing systems. In rural constituencies we do not have infrastructure. We do not have roads and addresses as our compatriots in urban and peri-urban areas do. The manner in which we receive mail is rather disorganised and is not reminiscent of the modern technologies that are currently available to uplift the plight of our people. I regret to inform members that we go about our business with informal and disorganised addresses, hence we have terrible problems whereby we often do not even receive our mail. When we expect visitors, for example, we need to have long-winded and complicated discussions to explain where we live. Otherwise it becomes so complicated that one might have to resort to meeting one’s guests at the most convenient landmark.

I know that hon members from the rural areas can identify with this. As a result of the confusion our so called address system creates, people in rural areas often do not receive their telephone bills. Since they are not aware of these bills, they do not settle them timeously. Considering these circumstances, I feel that perhaps Telkom often acts too hastily in disconnecting these phones. I feel that perhaps the rural clients should be treated with more dignity. I therefore urge Telkom to change its method of doing things.

The policy of the ANC is that South Africans should receive basic services. In the same breath I appeal to the Department of Communications to accelerate the roll-out of addresses. We do understand the infrastructural difficulties the department must be faced with in rolling out these services, but this is a basic need. Once our people have addresses, the provision of other basic needs will be facilitated. They will be able to receive their electricity, water and telephone bills. Their services will no longer be terminated unnecessarily and hence they will not have to live on the margins of society.

As hon members can see, the provision of addresses will, in the long run, circumvent many of the problems that rural constituencies are faced with, including the receipt of their Telkom accounts. Moreover, I am concerned that Telkom’s tariff increases will exacerbate the situation of those people who had already been hard-pressed to afford the old tariffs.

Secondly, I feel it is a shame that when customers who have had their services disconnected apply for reconnection, they must pay the very same fee as customers who apply for a Telkom line for the first time. I feel this is unfair, as it does not require quite as much labour to reconnect these lines as to install them. I would urge Telkom to review the charges for these services. Ngizwa bonyana u-Telkom kukhona umthetho awufakileko wokobana abantu nabazobhadela indleko zabo noma imali abayikolodako kwa-Telkom kufuneka babe nemali elinani elithize ababekelwa ngu-Telkom. Manje ngithi ku-Telkom lomthetho siyawemukela ngombana muhle khulu kwamambala. Begodu uzokwenza bona iingebengu lezi ezisebenzisa imirhala yabanye abantu ngokungekho emthethweni zibanjwe. Kodwana mina ngithi ku-Telkom ngalomthetho akazisanga abantu ngendlela efaneleko. Ngibawa bona ngomuso abantu bakwa-Telkom bazise abantu ngezinto ezitja abazilethako ngoba bangamakhasimende wabo. Lokho bengukuqondise ku-Telkom. (Translation of Ndebele paragraph follows.)

[I have heard that Telkom has introduced a regulation that says that when people come to pay their bills they need to have a certain sum of money as stipulated by Telkom. I say to Telkom that we accept that regulation because it will be helpful and will help in apprehending those who fraudulently use other people’s telephone lines. But I say to Telkom that they did not properly inform people about it. I ask that in future Telkom should inform people about any new services they introduce because these people are their customers. I am directing this to Telkom. ]

Incidentally, I understand that there are many clients who have unresolved disputes with Telkom with regard to the above-mentioned syndicates who have abused their telephone lines. I would urge Telkom to please settle these disputes, as their customers surely cannot be held responsible in situations like these. May I suggest that Telkom further improve on their customer care by establishing call centres which have the capability to assist people in all the national languages.

Notwithstanding the above qualms, there is one particular thing I wish to commend Telkom on, and that is the way in which they have prepared themselves for the competition in the telecommunications environment. Over the past two years Telkom has been remarkably innovative in introducing new services to their customers. The introduction of the pre-paid fixed line, for example, has been the first of its kind. This has brought telephony to many South Africans who had not previously had good credit records to qualify for a telephone.

With such creativity and innovation, I have no doubt at all that Telkom will continue to fare well against competition. After all, as our hon chairperson has indicated, this is what competition must ultimately bring to our people, ie better and new services at lower or more affordable prices.

Once again, I wish to thank Telkom for being such a good sport, and we wish them all of the best for the future.

The mobile operators must specifically improve on their quality of services where dropped calls are concerned. They have been allocated the 1800 spectrum, yet customers still experience an inordinate frequency of dropped calls and terrible interferences, especially in rural areas. The mobile operators must not only focus on providing services to the urban areas, but should also expand into the rural areas. Our committee chairperson will soon be holding public hearings regarding consumer-related issues. We want to understand what problems consumers are confronted with. Our mobile operators, though, have recognised that the future of South Africa is to a great extent intertwined with that of the African continent as a whole. Currently Vodacom, MTN, Dutch-based Mobile Systems International Cellular Investments and Zimbabwe’s Econet Wireless are building up a formidable cluster of networks and are competing with each other in a number of different countries. We wish both MTN and Vodacom well in these initiatives, which are in line with Nepad. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF COMMUNICATIONS: Mr Chairperson, hon members, I would like to thank members who have been in support of this budget and have also made contributions that are very helpful to the department.

To the hon member Dene Smuts I would like to say that I recognise the fact that she is indeed very preoccupied with Icasa. But we will have an amendment to the Icasa Act and I hope that when that comes to the fore, the issue of national interests, as well as the efficiency and the strengthening of the regulator, will all be seen as one package, and not as a selection of certain things from others. But it is a debate that we will have, because it is very important for the telecommunications industry.

I would like to thank the chairperson and other members who have spoken about the role that the department and the Ministry have played on the African continent in particular, and in general on the development of strategic relationships and programmes with the G8 Digital Opportunity Task Force, ie the DOT Force, the Commonwealth Expert Group on Information Technology and the UN ICT Task Force. The voice of South Africa is an important one there and in the SADC region, with whom we must work in order to be able to have harmonisation of our regulations and strategies, whether these are for e-readiness or other e-strategies for business.

I would like to say to Mr Gorem, however, that IPO was delayed because the markets were not very good. We cannot be expected to behave in a very irresponsible manner about an asset that is actually very important.

I would like to thank Mr Carrim very much for making this House aware that we do not have to always look to Government for driving projects. In this particular case, I would like to thank the SABC and Multichoice for the kind of investment in people they have made at Westbury, a community that has been torn apart by violence, crime, drugs, etc. We have seen many young people, through working with the church in that area, rehabilitating many of those criminals or drug pushers and ensuring that they acquire skills in the communication sector. Nine of those were trained by the SABC, four of whom have been taken up by the SABC to work for them. They have been able to build what is called outside broadcasting vans from the skills that they have learnt. Through such inroads into such people, we give them back their dignity and the capability to win back the respect of their communities.

With regard to the Post Office, as Mr Waters always seems to be pointing out, it is important indeed that we exercise that oversight. But I am a bit concerned about a number of investigations that we have done. I always seem to be communicated with about this by Mr Waters. I said it before - en ek sal dit weer sê [and I will say it again]:

O a bona, nna ke a fatafata. [You see, I have made some investigations.]

Dit kom van ver af. Dit het nie in 1994 begin nie. Dit het voor 1994 begin. Daar waar ons krap, het lankal gejeuk, maar mense het vir ons gesê ons moenie krap waar dit nie gejeuk het nie. [Applous.] Ons sal krap tot ons die waarheid kry; die waarheid wat voor 1994 begin het, en ons sal daaroor kom. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[This has come a long way. It did not start in 1994. It started before

1. The place where we are scratching has been itching for a long time, but in the past people told us not to scratch in places which were not itching. [Applause.] We will scratch until we get the truth; the truth that started before 1994, and we will manage to find it.]

Clearly what is happening in the Post Office now - the suspensions that are taking place - comes from far, but we will find the truth.

With regard to consultancies that have been said to be expensive, we were told that we did not have the skills and that we must go and find people outside, and so on. [Interjections.] We found that many lawyers, auditors, experts, etc, have taken us for a ride. I am ready to give members that information because, again, …

… ons krap en ons sal dit ook kry. [… we are scratching, and we will find it, too.]

So we will, to some extent, be able to explain where some of those losses come from because, indeed, we have been taken for a ride. The Minister of Finance is particularly interested in the results of such an investigation. I would like to say we do call on our people - because of some of the things that Mr Maziya has said - to look after the equipment and installations that we have in our communities. Unless our own communities can also protect the equipment and those installations, we will not be able to go far with our task. Let us give the thieves no quarter. Let us, in the memory of Steve Tshwete, go after those criminals.

I would like to say thanks to all the people that I may not have mentioned. Somebody asked about promises that we made to Thinthana. We only keep to the promises that we originally made to Thinthana. No other new promises are being made. They are giving their support for the IPOs, because they feel that after we had answered their questions when we met with them, they were satisfied with those things that they were told were different. We explained to them. So, we welcome that support from Thinthana for the IPO process.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank a number of people that we were not able to thank - they are the chairperson and all the members of the communications committee - for the unwavering support we enjoyed as they continually challenged us to do better. This includes, a number of people from the opposition.

Re a leboga. [Thank you.]

We would also like to say that we hope that as this debate continues, we will recognise the work that has been done to ensure that Nepad becomes a reality. This month we will be launching the fibre cable around the African continent, to which Telkom has made a great contribution. That will make it possible for us to end the practice of Africans speaking to each other via Europe. The launch of that cable will be something that we will welcome. I would like to thank all the people who are here, my friends and colleagues, for their support and for pushing us, making sure that we can sometimes make the impossible possible. As to many of the young people who were sitting up there in the gallery, I would like to thank them for inspiring me and making me believe that the youth of this country can, indeed, take this country forward.

Lastly, I would like to thank my extended family, many of whom were born in the last few months, for their support and the smiles, especially the little ones who remind me that their future also lies in my hands. So, as I put this Budget Vote forward and ask for members’ support, I think about those because we owe them a very good future.

Tsela e telele, empa re tla fihla. [There is still a long way to go, but we will get there.]

Debate concluded.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 30 - Minerals and Energy:

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Chairperson and hon members, firstly, I would like to congratulate our new chairperson. The new broom must sweep clean and, maybe, give me extra time! I would also like to congratulate the two colleagues who were appointed to the executive.

I stand here to support the Vote of the Department of Minerals and Energy. Energy comprises approximately 15% of our GDP. The total electricity sales in 2001 grew by 1,8% to 181 511 GWH. The total liquid fuel sales in 2001 grew by 0,3% to 20 934 million litres. These figures demonstrate the growth of the South African economy and the importance of energy as a key driver of our economy.

The integrated electrification programme remains a flagship of my department. It constitutes our main vehicle for delivery of a better life for all. Accordingly, the total number of connections in 2001 were 336 858, of which 141 707 were installed in rural areas and 195 191 in urban areas.

We are installing connections throughout the country at a rate of almost 9 000 per day. [Applause.] The electrification programme has been delivering above targets. In 2001 to 2002 there were 336 858 connections as against target of 300 000 that we had set for ourselves. Real costs per connections are also coming down at a rate of about 21/2% per annum. I would like to say many thanks to Eskom, our implementing partner and agency of note.

During 2002 to 2003 there will be at least 300 000 households, 700 schools and 100 clinics that will be connected. This will be done at a cost of R950 million. This time we will emphasise integration with other infrastructure.

The integrated electrification programme is inclusive of grid and nongrid energy. This ensures that nongrid customers who are generally poor and rural are secured and catered for. A total of 34% remains unenergised in the whole of South Africa. Rural areas are particularly costly and difficult to electrify and, therefore, slow the process due to the long distances from the national grid, low densities and small settlements. We will need members to assist us in ensuring that we have the public’s co- operation and understanding that we need in this regard.

The NER has been working on regulations that will ensure that nongrid concessionaires are well regulated in such a way that they provide a more comprehensive service which is linked to the local economic needs of the nongrid communities. Nongrid providers cannot be satisfied with only providing power for lighting and cooking. We need power for economic infrastructure in the first instance.

To prove that we can provide power for local economic development, we did a pilot project in 2001 for the Hlulega Nature Reserve in the Eastern Cape. An integrated approach resulted in a design consisting of energy, water purification and telecommunications systems. The energy system will make use of the renewable solar energy, water heaters and liquid petroleum gas.

This combination of energy carriers will result in an increase in energy efficiency and is, at the same time, also linked to the productive activities such as agriculture of a high-value gross. This is what we expect from the energy providers in the nongrid areas over a period of time.

We face the challenge and threats of crime in relation to electrification, which is also a threat to safety. Rural electrification efforts are undermined by vandalism and theft, especially that of solar panels.

Parents and community policing forums, especially in the rural areas, must assist us and take responsibility for making sure that we stop this mindless vandalism.

We need the hon members to stimulate a greater sense of ownership of this infrastructure in their constituencies because it is quite critical, as such actions make the cost of solar home systems prohibitively high and expensive because theftproof gadgets have to be added into the cost. We also need the hon members’ help to make sure that the police co-operate with us. Government is not going to tolerate this lawlessness and these illegal connections. We are giving a stern warning to those thieves. Customer frustrations should be dealt with by using proper channels which exist everywhere in the system. We and Eskom will also not tolerate the irresponsible behaviour that we witnessed recently in Soweto.

My last conversation with the late Comrade Steve Tshwete on our work was about our plans to visit some of those areas which are worse affected by this solar home system theft. Thangana said to me: When we go there …

… siza kubaxelela, kwaye siza kubenza into. [… we will tell them and we will do something about them.]

I would just like to say to him, wherever he is, that I still need him to help me on this one. Comrade Charles and I would probably benefit from the kind of stern warning that we can give to these thieves.

In May 2001 Cabinet approved the establishment of an EDI holding company which will implement the restructuring of the electricity distribution industry and ensure the establishment of the six regional electricity distributors. The EDI will lead to a sustainable, well-governed and affordable electricity market. It will give a stable industry to small and large users. It will also assist us to manage the costs regarding the poor. Of course, we have moved very far in that regard. We are in the process of appointing the board and CEO of this EDI holding company.

While, in the new dispensation, we will move towards a cost-reflective approach, this will still allow for cross-subsidies. Therefore, I want to assure consumers out there, especially poor customers, that cost- reflectivity does not mean that we are going to end the subsidies that are so needed by poor customers. In the meantime, the EDI restructuring Bill will provide the framework through which relevant officers and employees’ assets, liabilities, rights and obligations will be transferred to the RED. We will continue our dialogue with organised labour on those issues that they are still concerned about.

We are on schedule to start with the first RED in the year 2003. The challenge of the future of Mossgas is now well behind us. This year, we will formally launch our first state oil company, PetroSA, which will pay dividends to Government without Government putting money into it as well as not giving any guarantees. It is our intention that, over time, PetroSA will be able to command a total of oil reserves of more than 100 million barrels per day by 2014, mainly from the concessions that they are targeting outside South Africa.

I also want to thank SFF board members and staff for the sterling work that they have done regarding the tender that they have managed which was meant to replace strategic stock. I would also like to congratulate them now that the task is under way.

Last year, I promised the hon members that we would ensure that the integrated energy plan makes significant progress. I am glad to let members know that by July this year the committee will be able to debate a report on the proposals on the integrated energy plan.

Why is this important? It is because this is a planning tool needed to make critical choices and long-range planning about all our energy sources. Energy is a strategic resource for which we should be able to plan for 50 years and beyond. That is what this process has enabled us to do. What it has revealed to us is that South Africa does not have a choice of disqualifying or deprioritising any of the energy sources that we have. It has shown us that nuclear energy, coal and hydrocarbons will all play a significant role in the future of South Africa for many many more years to come. It has also enabled us to make appropriate plans to push higher the integration of renewables in our energy mix. The Deputy Minister will say more about that.

As far as natural gas is concerned, we are on track for the delivery of gas from Mozambique. Two days ago, the two Presidents launched the gas pipeline projects. As far as the gas is concerned, we are also investigating how it can be brought to low-income communities for small and micro business along its path. Our own state company, i-Gas, is involved in ensuring that it is going to be possible that the benefits of bringing gas into South Africa also accrue to small customers. Along the West Coast, we are progressing through co-operating with Shell, Forest and Mvelaphanda in order to make sure that the gas reserves that are coming from that part of our country will also be integrated into our energy mix.

As far as free basic energy is concerned, we have six locations where we are piloting. So far, over 9 550 households are benefiting from the free basic energy pilots. Once we have finished the pilots, which is estimated to be somewhere towards the end of September, we will be able to write a comprehensive report and make realistic recommendations to Cabinet about how we will be able to sustain this programme.

We have also taken steps to bring energy services, information, education and tips for cost-savers closer to communities through our integrated energy centres. That service is going to be well on track. In the next few months we will be opening some of those centres. I would like to salute one of our staff members, the late Pretty Javu, who died three weeks ago in a car accident on her way to promote this programme. Sithi makalale kahle uMamZakwe. [May she rest in peace.]

Hon members will remember that during 2001 I announced that we had signed an empowerment charter with the oil industry. At the time of signing the charter, blacks only owned 5,8% of the industry. At the end of 2001, nearly 14% of the industry was in the hands of black companies. We are now more than halfway with this task. Sithi: Halala kuSapia naku-Amef! [We would like to congratulate Sapia and Amef.] [Applause.] However, we still have a long way to go. I am very anxious that we should achieve this 25% target sooner than later. Therefore, I will be working intensively with the hon members in order to make sure that we can achieve this. In March this year we also launched an organisation of women in oil and energy in order to provide an organised contingency of women who can become involved in this industry. I still remain very unhappy with the representation of women in this industry but I would like to congratulate BP who, in their deal, have made it possible for a substantive group of women to participate in the ownership of BP. I would like to congratulate Shell, who recently signed a deal with Tepco. I would also like to urge the other companies that I know are working on something to please bring the something out. I cannot wait to hear from them.

I am establishing a monitoring and evaluation mechanism that will monitor progress and evaluate partnership in consultation with the industry. I thank the hon members for their suggestions and contributions. I will soon appoint a compliance and monitoring advisory committee to advise me in the application of these mechanisms which will administer a point system that will ensure that we can reward those that are making progress and have penalties for those who are not. I want to say to the empowerment companies that they have a responsibility. It is not enough for them to acquire stakes for themselves and then hate to take greater responsibility for broad-based empowerment. If one wants to do business with Government, one must know that there is a precondition which is that one should be committed to the empowerment of others. Otherwise, one should not bother doing business with us. [Applause.]

I would also like to say that it is important that empowerment companies take responsibility in managing their affairs so that we do not have to continuously hold their hands. It is important that they should take care of and pay attention to the agreements that they sign so that we are not put in an awkward position as Government and distance ourselves from deals that are pseudo-empowerment. It is their responsibility to make sure that they enrich themselves properly.

As an aspect of the roll-out of the charter, we have begun a process of focusing on other aspects of the charter. In this case, we are developing a supplier development programme in order to make sure that more achievements can be realised in the area of empowerment.

I would like to thank the oil companies which sent their representatives on a trip to the US where they went to study best practice on affirmative procurement, with particular focus on the oil industry.

As the country has moved to update and modernise regulation in the energy sector, the industries affected have had to endure many changes which most were not comfortable with, and I would like to thank the industry for the co-operation they have given to their respective regulatory authorities … Hey, I am thanking the industry, man …

With regard to energy efficiency we have not done as much as we had hoped we would by this time. We would be committing ourselves to a greater focus in this area and I hope in our next budget we will be able to report the ground which we had covered. I thank the industry again, especially the intense users in the mining industry who have co-operated with Eskom in order to make sure that we can move forward with this. Honourable members, this is an important contribution and all of us can make a difference.

Mining has continued to play an important role in the national economy. Provisional figures for the year 2001 indicate that mining contributed R66,8 billion to the GDP, compared to R51,1 billion in the year 2000, which is a 13% increase.

Hhayi, kungakuhle amalungu ake akushayele izandla lokho. [Could the hon members give applause for that.]

This constitutes 7,5% of the GDP in the year 2001. There is still a lot of potential for growth in the exploitation of minerals in the country, especially where the country is ranked number one in terms of the reserves.

This is where the ``use it or lose it’’ principle becomes critical. For example, in manganese we own 80% of the reserves of the world, in chrome 76%, in PGMs 56% … My staff said I should not say this because I say it all the time. But I will say it anyway.

We do not necessarily mean that we want to deplete these reserves, but we are highlighting the kind of resources that South Africa still has in this sector. And although the gold mining industry has in the past shed more jobs, it is not all gloom and doom, as the depreciation of the rand, coupled with the mood swing towards seeing gold as an investment, meant that some relief was provided for the industry, which is largely an exports sector.

Thousands of jobs have been saved and shareholders have reported very good earnings, especially compared to last year. In addition to South Africa’s huge potential for mineral exploitation, the mature mining industry has created an innovative world-class mining technological sector.

There have also been great advances which we have made as South Africa and African countries in the area of conflict diamonds. We will be ready at the end of the year to launch the certificate within the record time set to us by the UN General Assembly, the International Certification Scheme for Rough Diamonds.

With regard to beneficiation we are also moving very fast. Before the the end of this year we will bring to this Parliament a Bill on precious metals which will address the issue of entry barriers into the area of beneficiation.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Minister. Colleagues, if you will lower your voices, you will allow the Minister to be able to proceed without straining her voice.

The MINISTER: With regard to the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Bill, this is a very important piece of legislation that will address fundamental issues in the mining and mineral industry. The Bill will facilitate the transformation of the industry in order to attract new investment, entrench sustainable development and deal with the legacy of migrant labour, promote security of tenure and a predictable investment climate, legitimise a mine-specific social plan, and introduce the dedicated use of royalties to communities affected by mining, including labour-sending areas.

The Bill has been introduced in Parliament. The matter is now with Parliament, where interested parties will be given an opportunity to voice their concerns and provide inputs. As a department, we have listened and incorporated very diverse views as far as we could. We have always anticipated that in this Bill we may not reach full consensus, because the issue is controversial. Not everybody got quite what they wanted and therefore we all have to be content with what we have. We cannot as a department or as a Ministry overrule state law advisers to give some of the stakeholders what they want from this Bill. We are very pragmatic and we are comfortable that what we have is sufficient consensus notwithstanding the fact that we do not have total consensus.

We obviously cannot compromise the fundamental principles of the Bill and we have to ensure that the key performance indicator of the Bill, which includes, amongst others, significant change in the ownership profile, is realised. In this regard we are working on a BE mining charter which is currently being drafted by my department. This will be for the benefit of both women and all other historically disadvantaged persons. This will be the contribution of my department in the advancement of the Mbula agreement that we reached with the industry. The charter will facilitate transformation of the industry and we also call on the industry to be proactive in taking their own initiative in relation to the BE, and I will advise them to learn something from the the oil sector. I am sure that they will be able to benefit if they consult and talk to the colleagues there.

The reality is that South Africa is one of the biggest mining economies in the world but the ownership remains extremely exclusive. For example, one white company holds 63% of South Africa’s platinum reserves. In respect of manganese, only two white companies hold 83% of the total reserves. In respect of gold only two white companies hold 51% of the total reserves. In respect of diamonds one white company controls 95% of South Africa’s production.

For a healthy and a robust democracy, this is not good for all of us and I am sure that the industry will rise to the occasion. They need a paradigm shift because this is just not sustainable and this is what the Bill has to achieve. [Applause.]

I would like to assure those people who would have thought that in our compromise we would not address, and that we would give up on, those critical aspects of what the Bill needs to achieve, that …

… asizokuthengisa, maqabane. [Ihlombe.] Iyafuneka inguquko. Asisoze sathengisa ngelizwe loFaku, loShaka, loSikhukhuni neloMkabayi. [… we are not going to sell, comrades. [Applause.] Transformation is necessary. We will never sell the land of Faku, Shaka, Sikhukhuni and Mkabayi.] In terms of the Bill an advisory board will also be established to provide advice on a wide range of mineral and mining-related issues. I would like to start the process of facilitating the nomination of the people that will be appointed to this board. We will be making an announcement in the press soon. This will enable all the concerned people to have a channel besides the Minister to voice their concerns. This advisory board will have a standing in law. But I want to emphasise that it is an advisory board. It will not replace the executive.

We also, together with the industry, agreed that the `use it or lose it’ principle is critical and important, and because we have that common and shared understanding, I would like to invite the industry to voluntarily comply with those principles, even before the Bill becomes law. I invite the companies to discuss their voluntary compliance with this with our Director-General so that they can offload some of the properties which they have which they know they will not use because they are rather too small for them or which, for any other reason, do not feature anywhere in the plans which they have. They do not have to wait for the law in order to begin to do this and we look forward to their voluntary compliance.

As far as royalties are concerned, I would like to express my appreciation to the Minister of Finance who has made it possible that all royalties, which will be collected in the future, be used for community and rural development. In that way we will be able to benefit the development of mining communities and those communities that are affected by mining. This means that in the future we will not have mining communities that just evolve without any plan and strategy to ensure that we do not suffer the negative effects that are caused by dependency on single economic activities, which is why we have ghost towns today.

I would also like to indicate that my department intends to act swiftly and decisively on crime. That is why we visited some of our offices yesterday in the Northern Cape and North West in order to investigate alleged corruption. [Applause.] Whether the corruption is in the industry or is in my department, we will not hesitate to undertake the necessary investigation. In order to help reduce possibilities for corruption I would like to announce that in future the collection of royalties for mining will be done by Sars. Uzobafumana uPravin [Pravin will get them].

And again I thank the Minister of Finance for his co-operation in relation to this.

A lot of work and challenges are facing us in the mining industry in relation to the proper implementation of Nepad, and there are a number of initiatives that are under way with regard to that. They include the upgrading of the geoscientific information of Africa; the promotion of mineral beneficiation and the production of high-value mineral products to address infrastructural and agricultural needs; and the harmonisation of the mining policy.

We again thank Eskom for its role in the development of energy infrastructure on the continent. We also thank our geoscience council, Mintek and PetroSA for the work that they are doing in this regard. The geoscience council is already operating in 40 African countries, where they provide a quality service.

In the World Summit on Sustainable Development Conference both minerals and energy will feature very highly, especially energy, and there are a lot of preparations that are under way in that regard.

I would like to announce that IDC has come forward to be the first investor in the establishment of the Bakubung Fund which will be set up to finance junior mining to ensure that our junior miners and new entrants have a reliable source to which to present their viable application.

On mining and beneficiation projects, IDC’s Strategic Business Unit has already made investments totalling R1 billion, which generated R2,5 billion in exports and created 2 500 jobs. We would like to encourage IDC to continue with this.

The Deputy Minister will address mine health and safety issues. Suffice for me to say that even though we have seen a decline in the type of accidents that we have had, we are not happy, especially in the year 2001 with the slight increase in the avoidable accidents that we saw in both platinum and gold mines. We would like to congratulate the coal industry on having contributed significantly to reducing the accidents.

I would also like to highlight the fact that we are working on a skills plan which was developed and is already registered with the Public Service’s Seta, where our department will in particular focus on the critical skills for our industry. In June this year we should be able to launch our master plan in that regard.

Our budget for petrol - the Deputy Minister is an expert on that [Laughter]

• in 2001-02 was R1,245 billion, and in 2002-03 it will be R1,826 billion. The bulk of that is for electrification. In fact, 52% of our budget goes to electrification. We are a department that has a very tight budget. We, certainly, can do much more than what we are doing now, especially in the area of job creation, fast-tracking electrification and stimulating greater beneficiation at the grassroots level. But we will continue to talk nicely to the Treasury in order to make sure that we can, hopefully - during the course of the year, when there will be an appropriation - benefit from the generosity of the Minister of Finance.

I would like to thank all my very active and able staff members and senior managers in the Department of Minerals and Energy. I also thank the staff in the Ministry and my family for their support, and the portfolio committee for being so dependable and supportive. I would also like to thank a colleague, Almorie Maule, who used to be the CEO of Engen, for the sterling work that she did during that time. I just want to let her know that she is going to work very hard, because we still need her talents in the industry. We also welcome the new CEO of Engen. [Applause.]

Mr T R MOFOKENG: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon members, since this is my first time speaking as the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy, I would like to pay tribute to my predecessor, Duma Nkosi. I have taken over as chairperson at an exciting and challenging time.

Both the current Minister and her predecessor have worked very hard in the last few years to develop appropriate and effective post-apartheid policy frameworks in the minerals and energy sector. This year will see the implementation of many of these policies. Amongst other landmarks are a comprehensive post-apartheid framework for the governance of the mining sector which will be legislated, further unlocking the mineral wealth of the country for the benefit of all, while benefiting local communities, boosting black economic empowerment and protecting the environment.

The restructuring of the electricity supply and distribution will begin in earnest after a landmark agreement between stakeholders and Government. The consolidation of the state’s oil industry assets resulted in one integrated company known as PetroSA.

Astonishingly, rapid progress continues in black empowerment in the oil industry. The establishment of a post-apartheid regulatory framework for the oil industry continues with the establishment of a petroleum pipelines regulator and the formalisation of the regulation of the downstream petroleum industry.

Service delivery continues as thousands more households are electrified in urban and rural areas, and initiatives are taken in relation to paraffin safety and price, LPG and low-smoke coal. The first-ever bulk renewable project in South Africa, the Darling Wind Farm, got off the ground.

Both the Minister and the Department of Minerals and Energy should be congratulated on these achievements. The legislature, and particularly Parliament’s portfolio committee, will play a significant part in these developments this year. As has been referred to by the Minister and will be by my colleagues, we have just received the final draft of the Minerals and Petroleum Resources Development Bill.

I note, in this morning’s Business Day, that the Chamber of Mines still opposes aspects of the Bill. We hope that in the committee they will share our vision of an equitable, sustainable and efficient post-apartheid mining industry, and that they will eventually withdraw their objections. That is the appeal that I would put forward to them.

I think that clearly we should really ask ourselves lots of questions as to whether the Bill will really change the face of the mining industry or whether the industry itself can change that situation. I think it is very important that we should look at those fields. The regulatory regime we are proposing is a world-class regime, and we will not betray the many … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Colleagues on my left, would you please converse in subdued tones, in order that the speaker can make progress.

Mr T R MOFOKENG: Chairperson, we will not betray the many for the sake of the few.

Likewise, the portfolio committee expects to see two Bills tabled relating to the electricity industry. The first is the Electricity Supply Industry Regulatory Bill, which will establish the basis for the regulation and restructuring of the electricity supply industry. The current national electricity regulator is established in terms of outdated apartheid-era legislation.

More significantly for service delivery is the Bill pertaining to the reorganisation of the electricity distribution industry, which will, once and for all, disentangle and put the industry on a sound financial footing and establish universal principles for tariffs. Households can only benefit from this. The final area in which we are expecting legislation this year is the liquid fuel sector. The Petroleum Products Amendment Bill will effectively transfer the responsibility for regulating the downstream oil industry from private oil companies to the state. The complex web of apartheid-era voluntary agreements among industry players will be replaced by a transparent system of regulations based in the Department of Minerals and Energy. This will help promote transparency and competition, and level the playing fields for the new entrants.

The Petroleum Pipelines Bill will achieve similar goals in the pipeline industry. By setting up an independent regulator, the Bill will benefit consumers by curbing excessive pipelines charges that have inflated petrol and diesel prices in the past and placed an unreasonable burden on our roads.

Coming to the department’s budget, one concern that we must voice about that, especially in the light of the above upcoming legislation, is the concern about capacity. It is evident that the workload of the department has increased enormously, but unfortunately each staff complement has not. Prior to the inception of the GNU in 1994, the department had 1008 permanent posts. Restructuring and rationalisation in 1995 and 1996 reduced the total number of posts to only 667. That is shocking.

The focus and functions of the department have now been revised and expanded to include activities that previously did not fall within its original mandate. The current organisational structure provides for only 814 posts, which is totally inadequate to address the aforementioned priorities and the implementation of the new legislation, as mentioned earlier in my speech.

The creation of 269 additional posts implies that the department will have a total number of 1083, an increase of only 73 posts if compared to the total staff complement prior to the inception of the GNU in 1994. However, very few of these posts can be filled in the next three years. The department requested a total of R72 million to fund these posts, but only R10 million was allocated for the 2002-03 financial year, R15 million for 2003-04 and R20 million for 2004-05.

In the 2002-03 financial year, of the 269 posts, only eight senior and 15 middle, junior or office or clerk posts will be funded. This implies that service delivery, as well as effective regulation of the minerals and energy sectors, will be hampered because of lack of capacity. Given the importance of the mineral and energy sectors to the South African economy … [Time expired.][Applause.]

Mr I O DAVIDSON: Mr Chairman, first of all, within the time available I will be focusing my attention on three areas … [Interjections.] There are other areas which are pockets of excellence in the department, and which I would like to acknowledge and pay tribute to. But there are areas which I do feel that I need to bring to the attention of the Minister and ask certain questions.

The first concerns the ever-escalating fuel price and the impact that this has on all South Africans in terms of a higher cost of living in general, and higher food prices in particular. I note that a task team has been appointed by the Minister, which is indicative of the fact that there is going to be a possibility of price adjustments being done on a less regular basis, with Government effectively absorbing the implications of a volatile market. I think this needs to be looked at.

There are, however, other measures that the DA would urge the Government to consider as a matter of urgency.

Firstly, Government needs to consider giving urgent interim relief to consumers by reviewing all taxes and duties imposed by Government with a view to providing interim concessions to consumers. Government tax and duties currently compose about 30% of the fuel price. While this percentage is relatively low by European standards, it is on the high side with respect to successful emerging markets. Secondly, Government needs to urgently speed up its liberalisation of the liquid fuels industry in order to promote greater efficiency and more competition in the industry.

The second question which I wish to raise concerns the Central Energy Fund, and more specifically the Strategic Fuel Fund. The Minister will be aware - and I think she mentioned it - of recent articles in the press concerning the recent oil deal the SFF struck with Imvume Resources, a black empowerment company. The deal, worth $1 million, was to replenish our strategic fuel stocks with 4 million barrels of crude oil.

The first question that has to be raised concerns the reason for Imvume Resources being declared the successful bidder. Imvume, a black empowerment company formed just over a year ago, has no asset base and little or no experience. Now, I wish to emphasise - and the Minister must take note of this - that the DA is in favour of black empowerment. But it has to be genuine black empowerment, not enrichment.

What was Imvume’s added value as far as that deal was concerned? Indeed, why was it necessary at all for a deal to be made through a middleman in South Africa? Why, indeed, was it necessary to deal through any middleman? Why did the Strategic Fuel Fund not source South Africa’s oil requirement directly from an oil-producing country? We are advised by the CEO of the SFF that the first tranche of nearly 2 million barrels was bought from Iraq via Slavneft, a Russian-based company. Slavneft sold to Glencor, which in turn sold to Imvume, which in turn sold to the SFF.

The obvious question has to be: What were the commissions paid to each intermediary company, all adding to the cost or at the expense of the South African taxpayer? Why did the tender call for specifically Iraqi Basrah Light? Why was the tender so specific? There was no demonstrable need for this quality crude. On the contrary, it is not a product normally processed by our refiners.

The overall impression that one gains is that this was a back-to-back deal, and that the tender was created to suit oil already procured by Glencor, Imvume’s international trading partner. If this is true, it severely compromises the tender process and casts once again a serious question mark over the dealings of the Strategic Fuel Fund.

The third area which I wish to focus on has achieved the status of a tragic comedy, and that is the SA Diamond Board. The Minister is aware that over the years I have asked many questions regarding this body. We have had problems regarding the appointment of the Government Diamond Valuator; the court cases regarding the precise scope of his contract; problems regarding corporate governance on the board, which led to the Taljaard task team which made various recommendations; and the reconstruction of the board and the appointment of a new chairman, whom I must say is a great improvement on the previous one. But still problems persist.

The latest saga, referred to in Diamond Intelligence Briefs, a prestigious and authoritative international magazine read worldwide by the diamond industry, is the action taken by the CEO of the diamond board, which brought the industry to a virtual standstill recently by prescribing what were widely considered to be unreasonable new procedures regarding the import and export of rough and polished stones. The whole process of import and export has virtually trickled down to nothing.

As a result, three different interdicts against the CEO and the diamond board were launched and were all successful, the board not even defending itself, as a result of which costs were awarded against the board. I am reliably informed that the board may well now face further claims from traders for loss of revenue, this all adding to the board’s already highly precarious financial position.

The diamond board, we know, hovers on the verge of bankruptcy. The Government Diamond Valuator has gone to court to get some R1,5 million backpay, and has also put a freeze on the diamond board’s assets. Word has it that the phones last month were at one point disconnected for a week because of nonpayment, and office rental is three months in arrears - all the problems, frankly, leading back to the CEO. The Minister will recall that he was requested by the board last year to start disciplinary proceedings against the CEO on the basis of lack of corporate governance.

Now, he was seconded to the department, much to the board’s relief, and in his absence the board returned to reasonable efficiency in its function. Now the CEO is back, unwelcomed by the board, I might add, and so the problems have returned. The question has to be asked of the Minister: How long is she going to allow this sorrowful saga to persist? Quite clearly the CEO is the problem, and the CEO has to be got rid of. Clearly South Africa’s international standing is being severely compromised, let alone the efficient functioning of that board.

Finally, I wish to thank the director-general and his department for always treating the DP with a good deal of courtesy and always being helpful in respect of inquiries directed at his department. It is much appreciated. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Chairperson, hon members, firstly I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate our chairperson of the portfolio committee, Ronald Mofokeng, on his appointment but also to congratulate the two hon members who were sworn in for Safety and Security, and Home Affairs, both Nqakulas.

The Department of Minerals and Energy has come a long way. As time moves forward from today towards tomorrow and yesterday becomes a distant memory, our mining and energy industries are ever constant. They have played, and will continue to play, a significant role in our economy, more importantly, in the lives of our people, changing them for the better. For that we have a reason to hope, to dream and to believe in the possibility of a different world. The Minister has elaborated quite extensively on what this statement means.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Colleagues, I have requested now on numerous occasions that you co-operate, and that if you do wish to continue your conversation, you do so in a subdued voice, but yet you continue to speak. There is quite a lot of noise.

If you were to sit here, hon Ellis, you would hear the concentration of noise from all directions. Now I would permit you to continue in subdued voices, but clearly you cannot speak in a voice that distracts from the main purpose of the main speaker. The Chairs, I think, have to protect the main speaker. That is the position of Parliament. If you disagree, I will be happy to hear you out. There are certain members that are offending more than others. I would like to call on them, without naming them, please to co-operate with the Chair.

The DEPUTY MINISTER: Thank you, Chairperson. During 2001 we made great strides in fulfilling our mandate. Therefore, it is a privilege for me to share with hon members the progress we have made. Let me now elaborate on some of our programmes. In the area of mining health and safety, the mine industry’s health and safety record is as follows. Our safety record, I must say, is disappointing in respect of the performance of the gold and platinum sectors in particular. While occupational safety risks and the hot spots in the industry are well known, the same quality of data is not available in respect of occupational health. Profiling of occupational health risks is in progress. Noise-induced hearing loss and respiratory hazards are a major problem in this industry. Hence we expect the industry as a whole to co- operate with us in minimising these incidences.

We have had many accidents in the mining industry. In 2001 the mining inspectorate decided to institute inquiries into the major disasters for which inquest inquiries are still outstanding. A magistrate or judge is required to preside over these matters. Currently we are sitting with the following situation.

The Hartebeesfontein inquiry is complete. The presiding inspector has completed his section of the draft report. At this stage input is awaited from the attorney who co-presided over the inquiry.

Sworn statements of witnesses to the Beatrix disaster of 2000 have been recorded and the inquiry is scheduled to start in June. The inquiries into Beatrix 2001 and Mponeng will start as soon as the Beatrix 2000 and Hartebeesfontein inquiries have been completed. I must say, this is one section with which we have major problems and we have not done very well.

At this point let me take hon members through the process of review of health and safety in the mining sector. The Mining Inspectorate Review will inform the initiative to integrate the safety inspectorate and will examine, amongst other things, the enforcement capacity and appropriateness of the approach of the inspectorate in respect of inspections, audits, inquiries, inquest inquiries and profile of the industry, and the mining sector’s performance. I think the Minister has touched on this particular point.

Integration in respect of occupational health diseases will take place as follows. Currently we have a Cabinet decision, which was taken in 1999, which calls for the integration and consolidation of the institutions and laws regulating occupational health and safety. A draft policy document was circulated to stakeholders for comment last year. The following concerns specific to mining stakeholders have been taken into account: Making provision for specialist inspectorates to serve hazardous sectors such as mining; establishing mechanisms for securing adequate data; a phased-in implementation process to ensure proper planning; and a manageable process based on appropriate research.

On human resource development within mining health and safety, the overall goal of the Mining Qualification Authority is to develop appropriate knowledge and skills in the mining, minerals and jewellery sectors. In the past year the MQA applied surpluses arising from the 10% levy fund allocated to administration to the following priority areas: adult basic education; R15,2 million for apprenticeships; quality management systems; the accreditation of training service providers, which cost about R5 million; developing and piloting learning material, which cost about R10 million; and bursaries for scarce resources, for which R14,4 million was allocated.

Further, when it comes to human resource development, we have spoken about this in this Parliament, but we also want to give progress reports.

The Malaysian scholarship programme that was established during 1999 as part of the South Africa-Malaysia bilateral agreement has thus far created study opportunities for 28 South African students from historically disadvantaged communities. They are currently registered for electrical, mechanical and chemical engineering, as well as information technology degrees at Petronas Technology University.

Eight additional scholarships have been offered to South Africa for the 2002 academic year and it is anticipated that the total number of registered students will increase to 36. One also has to bear in mind that in granting this scholarship, we try to target those communities who did not have the privilege of going to university or cannot access skills which are needed in the energy sector.

Regarding HIV/Aids, as we all know, people are a most fundamental and valuable resource. We have a departmental HIV/Aids and related diseases policy. It is currently being implemented with the Employee Assistance Programme. Awareness campaigns are continuously conducted. The Centre for Human Resource Development, with the help of an employee who lives openly with HIV/Aids, is working in the department conducting counselling for its staff infected or affected by HIV. This is in line with the policy of the Department of Health.

In the mining industry a Tripartite Health and Safety Committee was established and launched on 1 December 2001. Its terms of reference are to be finalised soon. The committee’s duty is to co-ordinate ways of addressing the impact of HIV/Aids. A number of initiatives are under way at various mines and in different regions. A Witbank project straddles the mining and energy industry.

Regarding mineral development, the mining sector summit of February 2000 reached consensus in the implementation of five sector strategies for job creation. A committee known as the Sector Partnership is in place and has made considerable progress in implementing strategy. We expect that the appointment of a programme manager with the necessary capacity will enhance the implementation of the mining summit’s outcome.

Since the mining summit’s outcome, this is what has been benefited. We have managed to save 5 000 potentially redundant jobs at mines in danger of closure; established a social plan pilot project at Ergo; established a developmental centre for retrenched mine workers in Lusikisiki; and secured the opening of a mine technology training facility for small-scale mining at Mintek. We are planning a mining week which is going to be held at Nasrec from 30 September to 4 October. This is going to be the first of its kind in South Africa. Therefore, we invite members to come and participate in this mining week.

With regard to the small-scale mining sector, underdevelopment and undercapitalisation due to the abundant light-scale opportunities already characterise our mineral industry. However, this Government recognised the potential to develop these previously underutilised resources and introduced the National Small-Scale Mining Development Framework.

The constraints facing small-scale miners regarding access to resources and information required an adjustment to the regulatory regime, in order to create a conducive economic environment within which the sector can flourish. These aspects are being addressed in the new Minerals and Petroleum Resources Development Bill.

Despite constraints, we are already providing assistance to several small- scale miners and the department has currently received 86 applicants for assistance. Sixteen of these have been identified to have potential and three are at an advanced stage of implementation at Eldorado in Mpumalanga, Welverdiend Diamond Project in the North West and Osizweni in KwaZulu- Natal.

I now turn to the department’s approach to ensure that mining activities are integrated into the local economic activities of the communities. Eldorado has become one such pilot project in which mining exploration activities have created 80 jobs in the mining sector. It is envisaged that revenue from the mineral project will find other forms of economic activity as part of an inclusive rural development initiative.

A number of agricultural opportunities have already been identified, and a process is currently being put in place to involve the Department of Agriculture in order to ensure an integrated approach to the development of this rural area. Opportunities to develop an integrated project that includes beneficiation and tourism are currently being explored. Another advanced project is a brick-making project in KwaZulu-Natal in which Corobrik has entered into a joint venture or partnership with the community. The IDC has already committed funds towards the capitalisation of the project. The required business skills and full ownership will be transferred to the small-scale miners concerned over a period of two to three years.

On the energy side, we need a balance between utilisation of energy resources and environmental considerations to promote sustainable development. I am convinced that renewable energy could play a small but very important role in the development of a sustainable energy system. We are currently drafting a White Paper on Renewable Energy which will supplement the White Paper on Energy Policy of December 1998. The Government policy on renewable energy is intended to provide focused support for the development of renewable energy sources for both small and large applications.

Large-scale renewable energy supply schemes can increase the diversity of supply and minimise environmental impacts. Currently, other energy carriers, such as coal and oil, do not include the cost of the environmental externalities and, therefore, do not reflect their true cost of consumption to our society. We cannot continue on a business-as-usual basis. Polluting energy carriers will have to take the responsibility more seriously by assisting in the establishment of renewable energy. They will have a number of options. The draft White Paper proposes a renewable energy fund administered by the Central Energy Fund. The fund will also be used to mobilise financial resources and green financing. The draft paper also proposes financial and fiscal incentives to stimulate the implementation of renewable and energy-saving technologies.

With regard to the nuclear sector, in the next two months we will be releasing the draft radioactive waste management policy and strategy for public comment. This document has been a long time in preparation, but this has allowed us enough time to cater for current developments. The principles on which the draft policy is based are, we believe, acceptable internationally.

I want to touch upon the area of human resource development in the energy sector. We are pleased as a department that the various role-players in the sector have managed to heed our call for the development of human resources in nuclear-related fields. Last year the Schonland Centre at Wits University produced 17 postgraduate diplomates in reactor engineering. The University of the North West awarded 10 masters degrees in applied radiation technology. A further 10 students are completing their final year this year, and 17 are registered for the first year of the two-year masters programme.

I am pleased to report that for this year, of the 15 candidates who have registered for the postgraduate diploma in nuclear reactor engineering at the Schonland Centre, eight are women. For this financial year we will also be conducting a nuclear sector skills audit, which will lead to the formulation of a national nuclear skills plan. I also want to indicate that some of the hon members were talking about petrol. I want to bring to their attention the fact that regarding petrol pricing, which is of concern to all of us and which was used in the past, we are in a process right now of getting three departments, the Department of Trade and Industry, the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology and ourselves, to make sure that we are able to look at this matter together. Cabinet has given us the go-ahead to continually find a better mechanism or a better way of ensuring that our people might benefit from a cost-effective petrol association. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr E J LUCAS: Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Minister of Minerals and Energy, and hon members, the Minister, Deputy Minister and the Department of Minerals and Energy are responsible for two of the largest sectors of our national economy. The mining industry has, for more than a century, formed the backbone of South Africa’s economy, providing employment to hundreds of thousands and generating billions in foreign exchange. The energy industry forms another vital component of our economic success and wellbeing. From the generation of comparatively cheap electricity for industrial applications to the existing new developments in natural gas and oil exploration, this sector is a major driver of economic growth.

Furthermore, the South African mining and energy sectors are the most advanced on the African continent. Both these sectors are perfectly placed to accelerate African development in line with the objectives of Nepad, and will no doubt play a vital role in ensuring a better life for all Africans. South Africa should indeed be proud to be able to call on these two world- class industries for its own economic development and growth and that of our continent which, in truth, has never really lived up to its full potential.

The 2002-03 Minerals and Energy budget amounts to R1,825 billion, which is R581 million more than the revised estimate for the 2001-02 financial year. This overall increase is virtually entirely due to the increase of about R350 million for the national electrification programme, and about R265 million to redeem the loans of the SA Nuclear Energy Corporation.

The IFP supports the increased allocation to the electrification programme in the light of the vital role that the programme plays in improving the lives of the poor. We are also thankful that the Government’s commitments with regard to the so-called nuclear loans are almost complete, with small allocations to follow in 2003-04 and 2004-05. We also welcome the general increases in the budget for administration, the promotion of mine health and safety, minerals development and energy management.

I would now like to concentrate on a few issues of a general nature. Late last year the Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy had to bid farewell to its long-serving chairperson, Mr Duma Nkosi. I, for one, was saddened by the loss of such a highly talented, creative and objective individual who chaired our committee with dignity and in a nonpartisan manner that was a credit to participatory democracy. I would therefore like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to Duma Nkosi for his innovation, energy and commitment to the portfolio committee and to wish him well in his new appointment.

At the same time I would like to welcome the hon Ronald Mofokeng as the new chairperson of the portfolio committee. In the short time he has been chairperson, Mr Mofokeng has already shown that he is committed to the ideals of participatory democracy and co-operative governance. We look forward to assisting him where we can.

Over the past few years the Department of Minerals and Energy has gone through a difficult transformation and restructuring process. This process was not without its complexities and problems, but I think that it would be appropriate at this time to congratulate the director-general, his senior management and all departmental officials on the progress they have made in transforming the department into a vehicle that is well suited to service delivery and to the promotion and regulation of the mining and energy industries. The department has, among other things, been very successful in utilising its internal capacity, and I want to encourage it to constantly keep on developing the skills and capacity of its officials.

In addition, the DME has been very successful in empowering women within the department, in the small-scale mining field and in rural development. We congratulate them on this achievement and express the hope that their excellent track record in this regard will be maintained.

Earlier this month South African consumers were dealt another heavy blow with yet another increase in the retail price of petrol, diesel and paraffin. Coming on top of the general food price increases, rising inflation and higher interest rates, it must seem to many consumers that there is simply no light at the end of the tunnel. We understand and accept that the international crude oil price and the dollar-rand exchange rate play vitally important roles in our local fuel prices, but there are other factors that also influence the pump price, and it is within this Government’s power to investigate whether there is any possibility of lightening the burden of the consumer.

It was recently announced that the department would launch another review of the fuel price mechanism to determine whether it is still relevant, considering all the variables that may have changed. A similar review was conducted not too long ago, but no benefit accrued to the consumer. I therefore want to call on the department to explore all possible avenues in this review that could lead to lower prices or, at the very least, to lower the price increases. Furthermore, I want to call on the department to inform the public of what progress it is making with this review. The public certainly deserves to know the facts.

The South African mining industry is also affected by the international prices for gold, platinum, diamonds, coal and other minerals that are exported. In this case the poor dollar-rand exchange rate works in our favour, with gold-mining companies recently reporting massive increases in earnings. This is indeed good news for the South African economy. Higher earnings should guarantee that fewer jobs are lost, that new jobs may be created and that capital investment continues unabated.

I believe that South Africa should take advantage of the higher international mineral prices to the fullest extent possible. One of the ways of doing this is to provide more incentives to the mining industry while keeping in mind the characteristics of international commodity markets and supply and demand factors.

Since 1994 the transformation of South Africa has in many instances been accomplished by interventionist legislation emanating from this Parliament. The 1996 Mine Health and Safety Act is a good example of this type of legislation in the minerals and energy field.

A few short weeks ago the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Bill was tabled in parliament. This Bill, when enacted, will dramatically alter this South African mining landscape by transforming the so-called old-order mining dispensation to fit in with the objectives of the new South Africa. It has been a long road to bring the Bill to Parliament, starting in 1998 with the release of a White Paper. As the Bill aims to fundamentally change the mining industries, it should be no surprise that it has elicited vehement criticism from some quarters and fulsome praise from others.

It is now up to Parliament to make a final decision on striking a balance between the interests of all concerned stakeholders. I want to congratulate the Minister and the department on the extensive process of consultation that they undertook with all stakeholders to finalise the draft of the Bill now before Parliament. There will undoubtedly be further disagreements when the portfolio committee considers a Bill, but at least every voice will have been heard.

It is in this regard that I would like to conclude. It has come to my attention that some stakeholders have expressed concern about the short final period for detailed comment on the Bill. If one keeps in mind that the final draft was tabled on 19 April and the comment period will close on 19 May, a total of just 19 working days, it appears to me that an extension to the deadline for comment by 10 working days would not unnecessarily delay the passing of the Bill. The portfolio committee will also be in a much better position if it is in possession of stakeholders’ detailed comments when it considers the Bill.

I therefore want to urge the Minister to consider my proposal in a favourable light.

Ms S D MOTUBATSE: Chairperson, Minister, Deputy Minister and hon members, let me congratulate the Minister on her achievements of the past year, which can be regarded as ANC achievements.

The ANC is fully supporting the Budget Vote speech because the ANC is committed to service delivery to the poor. In today’s debate I will focus my speech on two issues, firstly the integrated national electrification programme and electricity restructuring.

The ANC has done extremely well. Through the electrification programme more than 2 million people in South Africa received electricity last year alone. Here we are talking about rural communities, and this should be applauded, of course. I am also happy to note that the budget allocation for the electrification programme has been increased, and as the ANC we support the hon the Minister on this programme.

Malobanyana mo mohlomphegi Tona o be a le go la Tubatse, moo a bego a ile go thakgola projeke ya mohlakase motsaneng wa Tukakgomo. Ka Sepedi ba re: Go nwa meetse ke go kgolwa. Ge motho a se a ya go iponela ka a gagwe, gagabo ke thabeng! Ruri-ruri Mohlakase o kaonefaditše maphelo a batho ba gaborena ba magaeng ka tsela yeo e makatšago!

Ge re sa le gona mo go tša mohlakase, motlatšatona, elego kgadi ya ga Shabangu, le yena o be a le Mathopestad, moo a bego a ile go thakgola ye nngwe ya diprojeke tša mohlakase - gore maphelo a basadi le wona a kaonefale. Ke rialo gobane matšatšing ano, ka baka la projeke ye ya mohlakase, basadi ga ba sa tsoga e sa le ka maswiswana go ya go rwalela dikgong. Le bona ba no ya kua lebotong gomme ba thanya, go swana le batho ka moka. [Legofsi.] Ga ba sa šokiša, ka go se tsebe gore ba lebe kae. Se,, se ra gore ka kgonthe ANC e nyaka go kaonefatša maphelo a batho ba gaborena. Dienywa tše ka moka re kgona go di bona ka maahlo a rena. [Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.]

[Recently, the hon the Minister visited the land of the Tubatse, where she launched an electrification project, at the village of Tukakgomo. The Pedi say: It is only by drinking the water that you quench your thirst, meaning that the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Seeing is believing! It is truly amazing how access to electricity has improved the quality of life of our people in the rural areas! Still on the issue of electrification, the Deputy Minister, Ms Shabangu, also went to Mathopestad to launch one of the electrification projects - so that the quality of life of women may be improved. I say so because nowadays, due to access to electricity, women no longer have get up at the crack dawn to collect wood. Like everybody else, they just touch a switch. [Applause.] They used to present a pitiable sight when they did not know where to go and look for wood. Not any more. This means that the ANC really wants to improve the quality of life of our people. The fruit of this labour is there for all to see.]

The project that we are delivering also encompasses the free basic service of 50 kilowatts per household per month. This makes electricity affordable to people in the rural areas because there is a subsidy from the department. The ANC policy on restructuring favours an integrated approach. We need to balance commercial needs against developmental and social policy objectives such as achieving universal access to energy services, affordability, competitiveness of tariffs, diversification of energy resources and security of supply.

The restructuring of this industry, I think, has been on the table for a long time and we must acknowledge the progress made up to now, but we think there is room for improvement. There is still much more that can be done on this project.

The ANC would like to see our people receiving a better quality of supply and service and a more financially vibrant and sustainable industry. We also believe that accelerating this programme, especially in the rural areas, will facilitate the development of home-based industries like manufacturing and mining beneficiation.

To the ANC, providing energy sources should translate into an enhanced quality of life of the people.

Gape ge re lebelela kua magaeng, re a tseba gore mohlakase wo re bego re o bona peleng o be o no thalaganya ka godimo ga dintlo tša rena. O be o sa tsene ka magaeng a rena. Re be re sa tsebe gore rena re dirile eng ge mohlakase o swanetše fela babašweu. Eupša, ANC e re laeditše gore le rena re ka kgona go šomiša mohlakase gomme ra tšwela pele, gobane segolothata re batho. Se se lego bohlokwa ke gore re batho, ga re diphoofolo. Le ka sekgowa: (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[We all know that, in the rural areas, the electric cables that we used to see were those that passed above our houses. We never had access to electricity. We did not know what we had done wrong to make electricity accessible to the white people only. However, the ANC has told us that we too may have access to electricity because, first and foremost, we are human beings. The important thing is that we are human beings and not animals. To put it in plain English:]

We are not less human.

In conclusion, there are questions that still need to be answered: Are we going to see any rollovers from this year’s budget? What is the departmental plan on that? Is there any financial support for women involved in other mining projects, like ceramics? We know that our women have wonderful hands.

Diatla tša bona ga di dutle; ba kgona go di šomiša. [Their hands do not leak. They are capable of using them to good effect.]

In the integrated national electrification programme, our SMMEs include women …

… gobane re a tseba gore go ya ka maekemišetšo a mmušo wa rena, basadi le bona ba swanetše gore ba tsenye diatla ka gore le bona ke borakgwebo; ba kgona go šoma go swana le banna.

Se sengwe seo Tona a swanetšego go se fa šedi ke gore … (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[… because we know that, according to the intentions of our Government, women are expected to also lend a hand because they too are businesspeople; they are capable of doing business, just like the men.

Another issue that the Minister needs to look into is …]

… how genuine is the BEE deal?

Gobane re a tseba gore matšatšing ano go na le seo go thwego ke ``Rent a black woman’’.

Mafelelong, ke rata gore … (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[Because we know that, nowadays, there is something called: ``Rent-a-Black- Woman’’.

Finally, I would like to say … ]

… if we diversify, because we always speak of an integrated energy supply policy, how developed is our technology in other energy sources?

Re a nyaka go ka šomiša tše dingwe, efela ga re kwišiše gore di tlo re fihlisa bokgole bjo bokae. Ge ke nyaka go šomiša eneji ya letšatši, solar energy, nka e tshepa go fihla bokgole bjo bokae? Ke eng seo e ka ntirelago sona?

Ke kgopela gore Tona a re fe dikarabo go dipotšišo tseo re mmotšišago tšona gore ge re boela dikarongkgetho tša rena, re kgone go ba hlathollela; re kgone go ba thuša gore ba kwišiše gore ba ka šomiša dilo tšeo ntle le go tekateka. [Legofsi.] (Translation of Pedi paragraphs follows.)

[We really would like to use other energy sources, but the problem is that we do not know how far they take us. Should I wish to use solar energy, how far can I trust it? What can it do for me?

I would like the Minister to respond to these questions so that when we go back to our constituencies we may be able to explain to our people and be able to help them understand that they may use those things without any fear. [Applause.]]

Prof I J MOHAMED: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister and hon members, it is a pleasure for me to support, on behalf of the ANC, the Budget Vote of the Department of Minerals and Energy. I congratulate Mr Mofokeng on his appointment as chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy.

I want to address the nuclear energy part of the DME Budget Vote. The funding of the SA Nuclear Energy Corporation, Necsa, has always been a point of controversy. Its funding absorbed about 60% of the DME Budget Vote during the high point of the nuclear bomb project of the apartheid regime. The ANC must be congratulated that it reduced this funding to 30% in 1998- 99, to 24% in 2000 and 20% in 2001. In 2002 it was reduced to 15%. The transfer payments to Eskom in 2001 and 2002 are excluded from these calculations.

The 15% of the DME Budget Vote spent on Necsa is still too much. This is particularly so if we remember that the contribution, to the South African electricity grid of Eskom, by the Koeberg nuclear station is 6,8%. Of course, Necsa also produces radio isotopes and carries out decommissioning and decontamination of nuclear installations and material, the storage of nuclear waste and related regulatory functions, as well as fluorine chemistry research. But this cannot justify the 15% share of the DME budget.

Nuclear technology has made major contributions in medicine through scanning techniques for cancer and other diseases, isotopes for internal medical examinations such as cardiac and kidney problems, and the treatment of blood for transfusion services in the face of the HIV/Aids concerns.

In the engineering and mining industries it has contributed in the examination of steel structures, and in dealing with the problem of the breakup and scattering of radiation-bearing ores and their decontamination. In the food industries it is used for the sterilisation of food, which can then be stored for very long periods. That is just a brief summary of some of the things that we can expect from nuclear technology, as opposed to nuclear energy.

On another level, there are major environmental problems with hydrocarbon emissions from coal, gas and oil-fired power stations or even firewood stoves. These energy sources must be severely limited, to stop a disastrous environment excessively building up.

South Africa, in spite of large coal resources, has not excluded nuclear energy as a possible energy source for the future. Dr Ben Ngubane, the Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, said at the second national nuclear conference in May 2001 that, and I quote:

Cabinet has approved the spending of almost half a billion rand on a feasibility study to build the prototype of a Pebble Bed Modular Reactor, the PBMR. This is a bold decision considering the controversial nature of nuclear power both internationally and nationally.

Eskom believes that the PBMR can be built rapidly and economically, that there is export potential and that it can be sited in strategic places to power small towns or other installations. The nuclear waste could be stored in sites such as Koeberg and moved to suitable repositories after at least 10 years.

Eskom owns 30% of equity in the PBMR, the Industrial Development Corporation 25%, the British Nuclear Fuel 22,5%, Excellon of the USA 12,5% and the remaining 10% is reserved for black economic empowerment.

The Department of Minerals and Energy has established a PBMR interdepartmental co-ordinating committee to address matters relating to the PBMR. The Minister of Minerals and Energy said in her opening address to the same conference I just spoke about, and I quote:

We also endeavour to consult widely on the PBMR and the option of nuclear power. Recently I led a delegation to France, the UK and Germany to conduct a fact-finding mission on nuclear energy and related aspects with special reference to Eskom’s investigation into the PBMR, and with the general objective to inform the decision-making process and facilitate constructive debate with stakeholders and the possible expansion of nuclear-power-generation in South Africa.

The energy-management programme of the Department of Minerals and Energy aims to develop and promote the optimal use of energy sources to support growth, development and access. Its subprogramme of nuclear and renewables promotes development of renewable energies. In its key outputs indicators and targets for this subprogramme, it lists the development of the PBMR strategy by 2004, but no inputs are given. So one is at a loss as to what funds are allocated to this.

The overall budget for nuclear energy is R6,082 million, of which R5 million is for membership of the International Atomic Agency. Clearly, the balance of R1,082 million cannot be enough for development of the PBMR strategy and various study tours made abroad and the major problems with nuclear waste, and the development of suitable heavy concrete buildings which must be constructed to house the PBMR as well as spent fuel.

The Public Finance Management Act requires the Department of Minerals and Energy to tell us exactly, one, what is being done about nuclear-spent fuel and nuclear waste; two, what costs are involved; three, the personnel engaged; and, four, if the work has been outsourced, to whom and at what cost.

It is not enough to tell us that two draft policy documents have been produced on the state of nuclear waste, and that a third is being prepared. We need to know what the inputs are. We also need to know if the choice of high-level waste is deep-level sites, with minimum risk of seismic eruption for 3 000 or 4 000 years, or are we going to store in deep-rock storage places with mechanical storing and retrieving, so that radioactive waste could be retrieved when new technologies are available to reprocess these?

We need to know how we mean to convey such high-level material on congested highways and from possibly many PBMR sites or other nuclear reaction if we go this route. I want to expand further on this.

I want to say that Dr Ngubane, in his address to the second national nuclear conference in May, stated that the problem facing the Department of Minerals and Energy was very clear, and I quote:

The subject of your conference, nuclear science and technology, probably does not strike a positive response to the majority of South Africans. This is for good reasons. Worldwide your subject is associated, in the popular mind, with nuclear weapons, secrecy, official lies, failed nuclear power systems, radioactive pollution and lack of transparency. You have to face the fact that the very positive benefits that flow from your skills and knowledge are not so familiar with the public and certainly get considerably less coverage. It will require extra openness, extra patience and extra persistence to succeed. Your conference is part of the long process required for public opinion to make rational, informed choices, and trusting the technical experts who seek this advice.

I fully agree with these sentiments, but I would like to add that there are well-informed experts who dispute the Eskom estimate of the costs of the PBMR and export possibilities and who share these views of the so-called ``popular mind’’.

Mnr A H NEL: Voorsitter, ek wil graag van die geleentheid gebruik maak om die Minister en haar departement geluk te wens met die veranderinge en die verbeteringe aan die minerale ontwikkelingswetgewing. Die verbeteringe in die wetgewing is meestal onderhandel in die onderhandelinge tussen die departement en die mynindustrie. Myns insiens word die belange van die grondeienaar nie genoegsaam uitgespel nie. Daar is ook ander aspekte van die wetgewing wat verdere opheldering verg, soos byvoorbeeld die oordraagbaarheid van die verskillende nuwe regte en die vergoedings- en die onteieningsklousules. Ons sal hierdie sake opneem in die besprekings in die komitee.

Ek wil graag ‘n paar aangeleenthede rakende die petrolprys bespreek. Daar is min gebeurtenisse in hierdie land wat elke inwoner so intens raak soos ‘n verhoging van die petrolprys. Dit is nie net die petrol wat ‘n mens in jou voertuig gooi wat duurder word nie, dit laat ook die prys van die taxis en die busse se fooie styg. ‘n Mens se kos, en feitlik elke lewensbehoefte word duurder. Elke keer as die petrolprys opgaan - en in die laaste tyd is dit mos elke maand - gaan alle ander goedere en dienste se pryse op, maar as die prys ‘n slag daal, dan word niks, maar absoluut niks, goedkoper nie. In die platteland, waar ek vandaan kom, gaan dit nog erger. Behalwe dat die petrolprys in elk geval daar hoër is, kry die polisieman, die staatsamptenaar, die klerk en die munisipale arbeider nie ‘n sent meer as sy kollega in die stad nie, maar hy betaal meer vir elke item. Dit help nie ‘n mens vertel vir die mense petrol se prys is afhanklik van die rand- dollar-wisselkoers en die prys van ruolie nie. Mense kry swaar, en hulle wil hê daar moet iets gedoen word.

Wat is die oplossing? Eerstens sal die Minister en die industrie deeglik en vinnig die prysbepalingsmeganisme van petrol onder oë moet neem, asook elke komponent van die finale pompprys, sodat elke moontlike besparing wat teweeg gebring kan word aan die verbruiker deurgegee word. Tweedens wil ek graag die Minister se inisiatiewe vir die besparing van brandstof verwelkom, en haar aanmoedig om hierdie aksie uit te brei. Pamflette met bestuurstegnieke, en ander metodes om brandstof te bespaar, moet by elke vulstasie beskikbaar wees. Hier kan die industrie ook help deur te sorg dat dit uitgedeel word aan elke motoris en taxi-eienaar.

Derdens sal die Minister party van haar kollegas in die Kabinet moet aanspreek oor hulle uitsprake, asook oor die dinge wat hulle nalaat om te doen. As die petrolprys ‘n funksie van die rand-dollar-wisselkoers en die internasionale ruolieprys is, dan sal enige veranderinge in die waarde van die rand of die olieprys die petrolprys beïnvloed.

Kom ek noem ‘n paar voorbeelde. Dit lyk vir my dit is nie soseer die gebeure in Zimbabwe wat ‘n negatiewe invloed op die rand het nie, as onbesonne uitsprake van senior Ministers en senior parlementslede wat daardie gebeure wil legitimeer. Die konsekwensies en persepsies hiervan is voor die hand liggend.

Kom ons neem verder die ongelukkige konfliksituasie in die Midde-Ooste, wat die grondoorsaak is van die verhoging van die ruolieprys die afgelope tyd. In plaas daarvan om ons mag en aansien as voorsitter van die onverbonde lande te gebruik om druk te plaas op die Regering se vriende in die Midde- Ooste, en op Amerika en Europa, om die strydende groepe om die onderhandelingstafel te kry, kies ons kant in die konflik. Ons Regering is ‘n voorstander van dialoog. [Tussenwerpsels.] Ons President predik dit op alle internasionale platforms, maar in die Midde-Oosterse kwessie verleng ons die konflik deur ons optrede.

Die oorsake van die verhoging in die petrolprys is ingewikkeld en is afhanklik van ‘n klomp faktore, maar die gevolge van die verhoging is eenvoudig: mense kry swaar. Hulle moet meer betaal vir feitlik alles. Dit verhoog inflasie, met gevolglike druk vir hoër rentekoerse wat weer daartoe lei dat mense hoër afbetalings moet maak op hulle huislenings. [Tussenwerpsels.] Die totale negatiewe invloed wat verhoogde petrolpryse op ons ekonomie het, kan in ‘n groot mate teengewerk word deur optrede en aksies van die Minister en haar kabinetskollegas.

Ons, en die kiesers daar buite, hou u dop. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr A H NEL: Mr Chairman, I would like to take the opportunity to congratulate the Minister and her department on the amendments and improvements that were made to the mineral development legislation. The improvements in the legislation were mostly negotiated during negotiations between the department and the mining industry. In my view the interests of the landowner are not adequately expounded. There are also other aspects of the legislation that require further training, such as, for example, the transferability of the different new rights and clauses in respect of compensation and expropriation. We shall take up these matters during discussions in the committee.

I would like to discuss a few issues relating to the petrol price. There are few events in this country that affect each citizen as intensely as an increase in the price of fuel. It is not only the petrol one puts into one’s vehicle that becomes more expensive, but it also causes the taxi and bus fares to increase. One’s food, and virtually each and every commodity of life grows more expensive. Every time that the petrol price goes up - and recently this has been every month - the prices of all the other goods and services increase, but when the price comes down for a change, then nothing, but nothing, becomes cheaper.

In the rural areas, where I come from, things are even worse. Apart from the petrol price being higher there in any event, the policeman, the public servant, the clerk or the municipal worker does not get a cent more than his colleague in the city, but pays more for each item. It does not help telling people that the price of petrol depends on the rand-dollar exchange rate and the price of crude oil. People are suffering hardship, and they want something to be done about it.

What is the solution? Firstly, the Minister and the industry will have to take a thorough and expeditious look at the mechanism employed for determining the price of petrol, as well as each component of the final pump price, so that every possible saving that could be made is passed on to the consumer.

Secondly, I would like to welcome the Minister’s initiatives for the saving of fuel, and encourage her to extend this action. Pamphlets with driving techniques and other methods of saving fuel must be available at each filling station. Here the industry could also help by ensuring that they are distributed to each motorist and taxi owner.

Thirdly, the Minister will have to talk to some of her colleagues about their statements, also concerning the things they neglect to do. If the petrol price is a function of the rand-dollar exchange rate and the international price of crude oil, then any changes in the value of the rand or the price of oil will affect the price of petrol.

Allow me to mention a few examples. It seems to me as if it is not so much events in Zimbabwe that have a negative effect on the rand, as ill- considered statements by senior Ministers and senior members of Parliament who wish to legitimise those occurrences. The consequences and perceptions of this are obvious.

Let us furthermore take the unfortunate conflict situation in the Middle East, which is the basic cause of the recent increase in the price of crude oil. Instead of using our power and prestige as chair of the nonaligned countries to put pressure on the Government’s friends in the Middle East, and on America and Europe, to get the warring groups round the negotiating table, we take sides in the conflict. Our Government is an advocate of dialogue. [Interjections.] Our President preaches this from every international platform, but on the question of the Middle East we are extending the conflict through our action.

The causes of the increase in the petrol price are complicated and depend on a number of factors, but the consequences of the increase are simple: People suffer hardship. They must pay more for virtually everything. It raises inflation, with concomitant pressure for higher interest rates, which in turn mean that people have to make higher payments on their mortgage loans. [Interjections.] The totally negative effect that increased petrol prices have on our economy can to a great degree be countered by means of action on the part of the Minister and her colleagues in the Cabinet. We, and the voters out there, are watching you.]

Mr S K LOUW: Chairperson, it is indeed an honour for me to participate in this debate on the mineral and energy Budget Vote, which is politically led by Minister Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka and Deputy Minister Susan Shabangu.

I am saying an excited ``yes’’, because things are really moving in the right direction, a direction that the ANC can be proud of, and a direction that we can fully claim the ANC leads and takes full responsibility for and is proud to account for in terms of delivery. The mandate, policy and direction are critical issues to focus on, especially when one has to deal with a structure which was previously dominated by white male capitalists.

Let me highlight some critical achievements in the oil industry, and the radical paradigm shift the Minister took to empower the disadvantaged groups, especially women, in the liquid fuel industry. The formation of Woesa, Women in Oil and Energy in South Africa, has been one of the major breakthroughs in the industry. The launch of Woesa is designed, therefore, to facilitate women’s participation in the oil and energy sector. This is a platform to ensure that women take advantage of the opportunities offered by the energy sector and are identified as one of the main drivers of economic progress and development of black empowerment.

Women also need to ensure that we continue to liberalise our economy. They have to take up major roles in the fuel industry, and remain in the driving seat that will benefit growth from the 25% entrance minimum for the historically disadvantaged groups. This is a massive opportunity for black economic empowerment.

I want to address the other challenges and opportunities that our Government, led by the ANC, is faced with. I want to focus on PetroSA, which will be closely linked with the New Partnership for Africa’s Development programme, a vehicle that will embrace other major African countries with mineral potential.

These resources can be utilised in the fight against poverty and be best used for the beneficiation of disadvantaged groups on our continent. Africa’s strength lies in its mineral and natural resources, and PetroSA will potentially play a key role in building a resource infrastructure in South Africa and the rest of Africa. It is also this role that the ANC plays in cementing the different resources to benefit our continent as a major basis for development.

PetroSA’s challenges are to integrate state assets in the oil and gas sector. While the apartheid era policy on liquid fuels, especially Mossgas, was focused on security at any price, the challenges that PetroSA faces is to make these assets pay, and also to contribute to national and regional development. PetroSA’s upstream, so far, is looking at Angola and Gabone, with Gabone looking extremely promising.

South Africa is well positioned to explore for oil in Africa. This will boost the security of supplying oil for PetroSA and place it on a firm footing commercially as an integrated oil and gas company.

It will also enable PetroSA to act as a hedge against fluctuating international oil prices. Our country has long been used as a stepping stone for other countries’ economic growth, and it is about time we raised our voices. The task team for PetroSA has also indicated that massive improvements in efficiency are possible in the Mossgas plan without significant investment.

We can look forward to a significant increase in revenue from the optimisation of the refinery. West Coast gas means we will no longer shut down Mossgas in 2008. Its production life can be extended until at least

1. The Mossgas refinery is the only large-scale refinery in the world that has implemented gas-to-liquid technology. This institution is experienced in the technology, but another hindrance is the Sasol licensing agreement, an apartheid agreement that places severe limits on its commercial use, even though Sasol was a government-owned finance company during the apartheid time.

Another major project is the Mozambique gas pipeline, which was launched on Friday with major spin-offs as an alternative in energy supply. This is also a project that will have to be embraced by Nepad.

Allow me to touch on very important issues in the mining sector. Exciting information in the mining sector is that the Council for Geoscience has completed a mineral-deposit map of the African continent, indicating 60 000 plus mineral deposits contained in the African soil. Geological maps for Gabon, Sierra Leone and Morocco have been draughted, and another one is currently being prepared for Mozambique. These are some of the achievements that will benefit from the Nepad initiative.

This can be regarded as a cornerstone for mining and mineral development on the continent and one of the major catalysts for the operationalisation of Nepad. The map contains a complete overview of the opportunities for mega projects and integrated resources. It will also assist investors in identifying exploration targets, and Government in planning for physical infrastructure.

Beneficiation relates to the department’s concern that our mineral resources are being exported in their raw state while they could be beneficiated in our country, create more jobs and bring more forex. The department has, amongst other initiatives, signed a memorandum of understanding on geological exploration and mining with the Chinese government. [Time expired.]

Mr M N RAMODIKE: Chairperson, I want to focus on and confine myself to four areas of the Budget Vote, namely transformation in the mining industry, the demise of the Sasol gas pipeline, electricity distribution and, finally, budget allocation and constraints.

It is gratifying to know that the Minister’s commitment towards the rapid addressing of historical imbalances in South African mineral wealth and the redistribution of energy resources remains consistent in terms of policy- making.

It is an indisputable fact that the system of mineral rights acquisition and ownership in this country is a historical legacy bequeathed by both colonialism and apartheid. It is also true that the introduction of pass laws and other discriminatory pieces of legislation around 1872 and subsequently the introduction of the Land Act during the apartheid era effectively removed all land and mineral rights from the indigenous people and restricted their movement, thus curtailing their economic activity and reducing them to mere purveyors of cheap labour.

The Mining Rights Act of 1976, for example, consolidated various laws regulating the mining industry and it became the golden law of the country that no coloured person, no African, no Asiatic, no coloured American or Chinaman may be a licence holder of mineral rights or may in any way be connected with the diggings, but should only be allowed as a workman in the service of whites.

The Minister’s policy to rapidly address historical imbalances in South Africa through equitable redistribution of energy and mineral resources in order to eradicate the injustices of the past - which still manifest themselves in the ownership patterns of the mineral industry - is commendable and should therefore be welcomed by all South Africans.

On the question of the Mozambican Sasol gas pipeline, our Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy visited the Temane gas fields in Pande, in Mozambique towards the end of last year, after receiving an invitation from Sasol. This honourable House subsequently passed the Gas Bill which has today enabled the Mozambican government, the South African Government and Sasol Petroleum International to finalise the agreement for the construction of the 850km gas pipeline from Temane gas fields to Secunda in Mpumalanga. This is great news for both South Africa and Mozambique in terms of job creation and economic growth. The gas pipeline will, for the first time in this country, compete with coal and create not less than 1 000 jobs.

On the question of budget allocations and constraints, it is unfortunate that the budget allocation from the National Treasury was at least 25% less than what was requested. The consequences of this funding shortfall will be, inter alia, that the department will not be able to carry out the legislation of nuclear waste management. The implementation of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Bill will also fail and this will negatively affect economic growth and job creation as key objectives of the department. The environmental legacy of the past will not be addressed, public participation activities called for by the National Nuclear Regulator Act will not be implemented; and there will be a failure to implement statutory responsibilities, which will compromise investigations into major accidents and disasters.

The Minister is otherwise succeeding in turning the idling mineral and energy resources of this country into a potent weapon against poverty. The only problem that should seriously be addressed is the continuous escalation of the petrol price. The UDM supports the Bill and urges the hon the Minister of Finance to accede to her budget request.

Rre S J MONGWAKETSE: Modulasetilo, Tona le Motlatsatona, badiri ka nna, mokaedi wa lefapha, bagolwane mo lefapheng le Ma-Aforika Borwa, ke ka maswabi a magolo mo kgotlhapeomolaong e e tlotlegang e re buang gompieno rese na le mokaulengwe wa rona, e leng rraarona, mogolwane wa rona, segatlhamelamasisi, rramakgonthe wa dipolotiki, motlotlegi Rre Steve Tshwete. Rona re le ba mokgatlho wa ANC ga re kitla re mo swabisa, re tla tsaya dikano tsa gagwe re di tsweletsa pele. A a robale ka kagiso! (Translation of Tswana paragraph follows.)

[Mr S J MONGWAKETSE: Chairperson, Minister, Deputy Minister, colleagues, Director-General, senior officials in the department and South Africans, today it is with great sadness in this respected legislature that we speak without our colleague, our elder, a warrior and stalwart of politics, the hon Steve Tshwete. As the ANC we will never disappoint him; we will continue with his vision. May he rest in peace!]

The mineral and mining industry is a sunrise industry. Some of our people would want us to believe that, due to the fact that the mineral and mining industry exploits nonrenewable natural resources, this mainstay of the economy is gasping its last breath. I wish to state emphatically that those who belong to this school of thought are wrong.

Provisional figures released in March this year indicate a 1% increase in the contribution of mining and quarrying to the GDP. While some years ago one would cry about the demise of the gold industry, recent reports indicate that this sector of the industry is bouncing back. There is a lot of interest in our platinum, manganese and diamonds sector. Notwithstanding the employment losses over the last decade, the mining and minerals industry seems to show signs of a rebirth. This is a sure sign that it is still a long time before the sun will set on this industry. This is indeed a sunrise industry. I am sure that the sun will shine evermore on this industry once the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Bill is promulgated.

Those hon members who either flew or drove to Cape Town, however antimining they might be, should remember that they either flew in or drove an item made of minerals. Thus the saying: ``If it is not planted, it is mined.’’

Ke batla go ama ntlha ya tsweletso ya ikonomi ya bantsho. Papetlana ya lekwalo la kgololosego le le kwadileng ka 1912 ke mokgatlhomogolo wa ANC ke seikokotlelosegolo sa rona. The wealth of this country will be shared by its citizens equally.'' Molao mongwe le mongwe o re o dirang re le ba ANC, re o dira re lebilecharter’’.

Ke rata go bolelela Tona gore re a leboga ka go bona a kgaratlha go tlisa tekatekano ya moruo mo bathong ba bantsho mo Aforika Borwa. Re mmone a leka go tlisa sengwe se sennye mme se natetsha mo intasetering ya oli. Mme ke botsa gore mo meepong ya Aforika Borwa ke diperesente di le kae? (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)

[I want to touch on the point of black economic development. The ANC Freedom Charter of 1912 is our anchor. It says that the wealth of this country will be shared by its citizens equally. Every law that we as the ANC draft is done with the Freedom Charter in mind.

I want to tell the Minister that we are thankful to see her fighting to have economic equity among the black people of South Africa. We saw her trying to bring about a minute improvement in the oil industry. I wish to ask: What is the percentage in relation to the South African mines?]

Can the Minister tell us what the percentage of black economic empowerment in the mining industry is? I listened very curiously when the Minister showed the percentage of mining houses that have between 63% and 85% of the reserves. I was really shocked, because in actual fact it means that black economic empowerment is not going to be realised, because they are not prepared to release mineral rights and share with us. [Interjections.]

The Minister has echoed the statement that before the Bill is promulgated, these mining houses must at least compromise and say: ``Let us share.’’ But now it seems as if the Minister’s cry is falling on deaf ears. [Interjections.]

Bagaetsho, fa re dira melao, go aga go nna le selelo sa gore Tona o inaya dithata tse dintsi. [When we draft the laws there is an outcry that the Minister gives himself or herself a lot of powers.]

Every time, whenever we make laws, people exclaim that they are very worried about the powers that the Minister is writing into those laws. I know very well that, across the board, everybody is saying that these Ministers are empowering themselves and have a lot of power. But in actual fact the Ministers intend to correct the imbalances of the past 300 years.

But now at the present juncture, since 85% of mineral reserves are in the hands of a few, when the mineral development Bill comes before the House I will not compromise. We will give the Minister the power, so that she should correct the imbalances. I am sorry, but I will not compromise. [Applause.]

I will only compromise if the industry is able to listen. In actual fact, this South Africa belongs to all of us and we must share its wealth. We should do this without compromising. We belong to no other land but South Africa.

Let me now deal with the rehabilitation of abandoned asbestos mines. Our Constitution grants everyone the right to an environment that is not harmful to their health or wellbeing, and to have the environment protected for the benefit of present and future generations. It is within this constitutional context that the department is engaged in the rehabilitation of abandoned mines in South Africa.

Since the inception in 1986 of the Asbestos Dams Rehabilitation Programmes on asbestos mine dumps, the Government has spent around R80 million to rehabilitate 56 asbestos dumps. There are still 150 dumps to be rehabilitated from the mega budget of R21 million in the 2001-02 financial year.

The department has spent around R19 million on the rehabilitation of asbestos dumps. This is an indication that the Ministry is concerned about the health implications of asbestos fibres. As members know, it is the poorest of the poor who fall prey to flying asbestos fibres. These rehabilitation works will continue under the current financial year and it is important for us to highlight some of the successfully rehabilitated areas.

Due to the rehabilitation works completed in the Northern Cape, particularly in the Prieska area, in Glen Allen and Koegasbrug, the level of asbestos fibre in the atmosphere in that area has been reduced from one fibre per millimetre - the hazardous level that can cause asbestosis - to less than 0,01 fibre per millimetre. Mpumalanga …

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, although you are firing on all cylinders, I am afraid that your time has expired! [Applause.]

Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Chairperson, our country has inherited an economic system whose policy and strategy were designed with the deliberate and systematic intention of maintaining and sustaining racial and private ownership of productive and natural resources. That is what we have inherited. To this end, the liquid fuel and mining industries are still dominated by white-owned companies, and the Minister has referred to this. Black companies that have entered these fields of economic activities have not passed the 10% mark in market share. This state of affairs should not be allowed to continue and is unacceptable.

Time and again we take pride in the fact that we have a world-class mining industry, yet workers continue to experience health and safety hazards in these mines.

Azapo believes that working people have a right to health and safety, free from the assumption that there is harmony with the demands for capital accumulation. These rights must be combined with recognition of the need to provide workers with a living wage and to safeguard their immediate livelihood within the industry.

Women in particular are super-exploited for two reasons. Firstly, their work is still influenced by the gender ascriptive roles originating from household fear. They are often tea ladies, floor cleaners, etc, and this state of affairs must also be addressed. Secondly, they are paid less than men on the basis of the roles that have been allocated to them historically and which continue to be the roles that they are supposed to play in a new society. The Department of Minerals and Energy has a responsibility, therefore, to change these circumstances to which women are subjected.

Over the past two years, Eskom has been credited with having availed electricity to rural communities. This is plausible. Whilst Azapo is encouraged by this development, it is nonetheless not happy with the speed at which the electrification process is moving.

Finally, Government should continue vigorously to provide favourable and sustainable conditions for increasing empowerment opportunities within the minerals and energy sphere. This empowerment should not benefit few individuals, but it must benefit all.

Ms E NGALEKA: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister and hon members, in the 1960s Denmark was dependent mainly on imported energy sources such as coal and oil. Enthusiasts, NGOs and entrepreneurs began to investigate the possibility of generating energy from wind. Steeply rising oil prices lent strong government support to this initiative and gradually wind turbines began to appear in the country.

Initially, wind energy was very expensive and government protected the industry through a number of measures, including obliging utilities to purchase wind power at higher than market prices. Huge technological advances were made in three decades and now, in the 21st century, the Danish wind power industry is a model industry.

In Denmark, wind turbines can compete with fossil fuel power. They are owned by thousands of small investors, creating thousands of entrepreneurs and jobs.

Wind turbines are Denmark’s biggest export industry, earning the country billions of dollars in foreign exchange. Wind power is the fastest growing source of electricity in the world. On some days, more than half of Denmark’s electricity comes from wind. The current Danish government aims to boost wind power to half of Denmark’s electricity generating capacity. Government, researchers, entrepreneurs, engineers and civil society all played significant roles in the economic miracle. Can we repeat this experience in South Africa? Is it possible to establish a number of brand- new energy industries here? Experience in the rest of the world tells us that this is indeed possible, with a strong commitment from Government. Last year the Government released a renewable energy strategy document, and the Department of Minerals and Energy will be releasing a White Paper on Renewable Energy later this year, indicating the current Government’s seriousness about renewable energy.

The strategy document outlines a number of exciting possibilities and initiatives for South Africa. I will mention some of these briefly. South Africa will soon have its own wind energy project in the form of the Darling wind farm, which the Minister has designated as the lead project. Hopefully, electricity will be flowing from Darling by the time of the world summit.

The Government continues with its programme of off-grid electrification, for which R60 million has been allocated this year. Thousands of rural households are already benefiting from solar electricity.

In his Budget Speech, the Minister of Finance recognised the potential and benefits of biodiesel, a clean-burning diesel produced from plant oils, by granting tax relief to producers. An innovative group is planning to produce biodiesel from nuts which grow in semi-arid areas, ideal for our drought-stricken interior. This will potentially create thousands of jobs in addition to cutting our import bill for crude oil and benefiting the environment.

Solar water heating has massive potential for South Africa. We have the best solar resources in the world and, best of all, solar water heating is considerably cheaper than other forms of water heating. We could lead the world in solar water heating for the industry. All these and more could form the basis for new energy industries, as well as forming an important part of Government’s climate change strategy.

There are two problems with the strategy document as it is. The first problem is that it is vague on support mechanisms for renewables. We need definite support in the form of funding for research and development, direct or indirect subsidies, tax incentives and other mechanisms, and these need to be built into current and future regulatory frameworks. Some of this support can come from international mechanisms such as the Combined Development Mechanism. The second problem is lack of capacity in Government. The DME has significant problems with capacity. This could be partly remedied by the Minister’s plan to hand some of these responsibilities to the Central Energy Fund.

The same problems beset Government’s energy efficiency strategy, which can also potentially make a very valuable contribution to the economy and the environment, as well as solving some of the energy problems of our households. The Government’s Integrated Energy Plan, as well as other energy models, indicates that the best option to combat climate change is a series of energy efficiency programmes combined with a programme of support for renewable energy. We also have the option of developing the region’s renewable hydroelectric resources in line with the President’s Nepad initiatives. This might be the cheapest renewable energy option.

Experience in other countries has shown that energy efficiency has both immediate and long-term benefits to individuals and the economy. This experience also shows that we need a strong, independent agency to implement a successful programme. Such a programme could cut the costs of industry, cut our fuel costs and thus our transport costs and, equally importantly, significantly cut the energy costs of poor households. An extensive energy efficiency programme would also create jobs and have considerable environmental benefits.

Energy efficiency and renewables at a household level hold immense benefits for women. Solar electricity eliminates the need for candles and paraffin for lighting and lowers the risk of fires, while energy-efficient housing in a number of pilot projects has almost eliminated the need for heating, thus saving rural women hours a day collecting firewood. One current DME initiative is the dissemination of solar stoves in the Northern Cape, which will also reduce the burden on women in rural areas and conserve scarce wood resources.

The ANC is committed to exploring these exciting opportunities, and we will support the Minister and the department in all their initiatives.

The ANC supports this Vote. [Applause.]

Mr B G BELL: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister, hon fellow members and guests, it is my privilege to speak on behalf of the DP and the Democratic Alliance in this budget debate. Over the past year, we appeared to have made some progress. The redrafting of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Bill is an improvement on the original version. The Act to convert Eskom into a company will assist in the restructuring of the energy field. The separation of the three aspects, ie generation, distribution and final delivery, will allow for more flexibility.

Although in the briefings there appeared to be more questions than answers, some progress has been made and a great deal of thought has obviously been put in.

The gas industry received a major boost by the passing of the gas Bill and the gas pipeline to be laid from the Temane field in Mozambique. Both of these factors will be of great benefit to South Africa and Mozambique. We would like to congratulate Sasol on their initiative and wish them luck in the future operation of the pipeline. The investment in terms of today’s money values is some US$14 million.

The official launch of this project was last week. A negative is the ever- increasing price of liquid fuels. The fuel price affects all aspects of our economy, and other speakers have mentioned this at great length. It is recognised that the major causes are the rand exchange rate and the rising price of crude oil. The reregulation of liquid fuel, refining and distribution is considered by many to be a possible solution, and we call on the ANC Government to pursue this avenue with some haste.

It is recognised that the total deregulation of the fuel industry is probably impossible and unwise as the Opec countries control the supply of crude oil at source and could hold a country to ransom. The lack of any visible progress in the preparation of the integrated energy plan called for in the White Paper on energy is a disappointment.

We call on the ANC to please do something about this before we go any further in restructuring the energy sector so that we have a plan to work from and do not make decisions which may have to be reversed at some stage in the future. In last year’s Budget Speech I called for this to be completed. My call was echoed by many other speakers, and the Minister replied that this would receive some priority. It is encouraging to hear from the Minister that July 2002 is D-day. [Interjections.]

The mining industry is sound and making good advances. Both gold and platinum have seen an increase in the dollar price, and the drop in value of the rand has helped the bottom line. Accidents in the mining industry are still causing concern. The coal sector continues to lead the way in reducing the accident rate. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! The hon Mr J H Nash, ANC, is the next speaker. [Applause.] Order! It seems, hon members, that the debate on Minerals and Energy Affairs can never come to an end unless the hon Mr Nash has his say. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]

Mr J H NASH: Chairperson, Mr Bell says, Do not liberalise.'' [Interjections.] Mr Davidson saysLiberalise.’’ [Laughter.] One can see how confused the DP is. [Laughter.] But I really want to deal with Mr Davidson today. [Interjections.] There have been many unsubstantiated claims about strategic stock, especially from Mr Davidson and the opposition benches. [Interjections.] The purchase of Basrah Light, it is argued, has been a grade that is sanctioned by the UN. [Interjections.]

A cursory glance at the UN Internet site gives the terms and conditions for the purchase of Basrah Light as part of the UN oil-for-food programme. The hon member wants to know about Basrah Light and why we are buying Basrah Light. I am going to tell him. [Laughter.] The SFF has applied UN conditions for the purchase of this crude oil. [Interjections.] This crude oil is also currently underpriced due to the UN smart sanctions against Iraq.

This underpricing is beneficial to South Africa and it demonstrates that an economic decision was made with regard to this crude oil as strategic stock. It should also be noted that the US is a large importer of this crude oil through a US company called Bay Oil.

Basrah Light, if mixed with a secondary grade of strategic stock … [Interjections.] The hon member wants to know about Basrah Light: he should just use his ears for a change. [Laughter.] Basrah Light, if mixed with a secondary grade of strategic stock which was purchased, namely Bonny Light, would give the country a refining barrel in accordance with current demand patterns of a high white product yield. [Interjections.]

The mixing will also allow the reduction in sulphur levels within the refining … [Interjections.] I will read it again for the hon member. The mixing will also allow for the reduction in sulphur levels without the refiners investing in expensive hardware in a period that requires emergency cover.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON: Order! Hon member, try and speak into the mike, otherwise Hansard will have difficulty recording you! [Laughter.]

Mr J H NASH: Chairperson, I do not need to speak to the rest. I need to speak to educated men. [Laughter.] The grades purchased by the SFF are commercially tradable, which is an added advantage. This is why the SFF had Basrah Light and mixed it. Moreover, it has been argued that South African refineries have not run Iraqi crude oil. [Interjections.] What did the hon member read in the papers? [Laughter.] Those people who informed him must inform him properly next time. [Laughter.]

Once again a cursory glance at the Sapia annual report of 2001 indicates that in 1997 South Africa imported 943 000 metric tons of Iraqi crude oil. In 1998 the country imported 413 000 metric tons and, again, in 1999 it imported 137 000 metric tons. This year the country will be importing 4 million barrels of Basrah Light for strategic purposes. But the hon member is asking why the SFF purchased Basrah Light. [Interjections.] The only reason why Mr Davidson is complaining is because he does not like the colour of the board of the SFF which was appointed by the Minister. [Applause.] This is the only reason he turns around and asks why a company that has been in existence for a year must get a contract. Where did he ever hear of someone tendering and being requested to choose a company that has 12 or 14 years of experience? The best tender gets it. Does he know why he does not like it? The tender was won by another poor black company. [Applause.] Blacks must not get these things, he seems to think. The only reason he has complained about this is that he cannot see blacks entering the market, and his thinking in this regard must change. [Applause.] [Interjections.] My racism is pathetic, but the hon member cannot get rid of his racism.

The IBLC pricing formula is beginning to feel its death pangs that commenced with the change in the pricing formula of LPG. In the past, this product was priced at Mogas 93 minus R10 a ton, and now it is going to be priced at Mogas 93 minus R205 a ton.

This change in the pricing formula will bring much-needed relief to poor households. This is what I am dealing with - the poorest of the poor. This relief can only be felt at the grassroots level if the rest of the LPG value chain is assessed in order to trim off the remaining fat on the price. One must remember that last year I spoke on the fat of the oil companies. Here once again, I say that the fat of the oil companies must be given to the poorest of the poor. [Interjections.] Share! We are not saying people must not make a profit, but that that profit must be shared and let the poorest of the poor benefit. [Interjections.] That is what we are saying. I cannot blame Mr Lee, because the only thing that he can write in the papers is coconuts. [Laughter.]

In our meeting with the department, they denied that paraffin pricing was linked to jet fuel pricing. At that point, I said I would come back to prove that it was linked, because I am saying that one must not link jet fuel with ordinary paraffin, which the poorest of the poor must use. [Time expired.] [[Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, are you rising on a point of order? Members, please allow the hon member to make his point.

Mr F BHENGU: Chairperson, whilst the hon member Nash was addressing the House, the hon member Davidson called the hon member Nash a racist. I would like you to make a ruling on that, Chair.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Davidson, did you say that the hon Nash was a racist? [Interjections.]

Mr I O DAVIDSON: Yes, Chairperson, absolutely. He called me a racist. I was quite happy to call him a racist in return. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, I did not hear the hon Nash saying that you were a racist.

Mr I O DAVIDSON: The implication was …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Now what we need to do is to separate the issues, the first issue being whether the hon member had alleged that the hon Nash was racist.

Mr I O DAVIDSON: Chairperson, I quite clearly said that.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: If you had, are you willing to withdraw, hon member?

Mr I O DAVIDSON: Chairperson, I am happy to withdraw that and I respectfully ask that you ask him to withdraw the implication … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, when you make a withdrawal you do not qualify that withdrawal.

Mr I O DAVIDSON: Chairperson, yes, I withdraw that but then I am asking you to do the same … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, you may then raise your second point. Yes, hon member?

Mr I O DAVIDSON: Chairperson, may I too then raise a point and ask if it is parliamentary for that member, by implication, to call me a racist? [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSSON OF COMMITTEES: As I said, I did not hear him. Let me indicate to you that if the implication had been that someone is a racist, the mere reference to someone by race is not racist. To be racist one has to impugn the integrity or the standing of someone else. That would then constitute racism. But if you have the impression that by implication the hon member made statements that were racist, I am willing to look at that and to rule again at a later stage.

Mr I O DAVIDSON: Chairperson, might I respectfully ask you, Sir, to inspect the record, because that gentleman there said, and it was more than by implication … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you, hon member, I will certainly do that and come back to the House. The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon members for a very lively, robust and energising debate.

I would just like to add a few critical comments and additional information that the Deputy Minister did not manage to share with the House. One of those is that Cabinet recently approved the end of leaded petrol as from

1. The 40% reduction of sulphur in diesel, which was implemented in January this year, will be further reduced to 0,05% in 2006. Those who worked with us to reach this decision are thanked by us and, of course, there will be ongoing discussion because, to some extent, this is not an easy decision to implement. We would therefore seek to continue to co- operate with the industry in order to make that possible.

I would also like to highlight to members that very innovative measures have been undertaken in Mintek in order to utilise the great technology strength and research that we have. As a result, significant foreign revenue is now being earned by Mintek in that respect and through the investments that they have made in the promotion of small miners.

I would also like to say that regarding Eskom, it is urgent that it should actively support the introduction of regulation of electricity in SADC and beyond, as currently spearheaded by NER. We need Eskom to support and promote the interests of the shareholder, and the policy of the South African Government is about being a government utility.

There have been a lot of improvements in Necsa. The sales are up by 30% and there is an investment in skills training. At present, Necsa is providing training to 100 technikon students in mechanical and electrical engineering. I just thought that I should highlight those issues. Of course, NNR has made significant strides. One if its outstanding initiatives, which is in any case an obligation, has been the emergency simulation that it undertook this year when it demonstrated its capacity to intervene in case of an emergency. It is currently involved in a number of international protocols to which it contributes and it is also involved in the promotion of training in this sector.

Regarding some of the questions and concerns that were raised by hon members, I would like to say that I would not like to flog a dead horse. The issue is that the SA Diamond Board is very much linked to the legislation that we are trying to kill. I would not want to make the shortcomings of the CEO of the diamond board a subject of a parliamentary debate. There are processes that we are following up in order to address that and, in due course, we will make an announcement. We will co-operate with the board in order to arrive at a solution.

I want to assure the hon Davidson that we are concerned about the situation in the diamond board. That is why we, ourselves, have taken active steps to try and address the issue. But, I think that the CEO deserves privacy too. We should not be discussing his conditions of service in the House.

On the issue of the SFF tender, I do not want to get into details because we will be providing a written answer. We are not treating this as a priority because it is just another ghost chase that Ian Davidson now and again pops up in the House. We have perfectly valid and good answers in that respect. Some of the hon members who spoke before had started to address that issue. However, there will be a written answer which will be a matter of public record and other members will be able to read it.

I am concerned about members of the opposition when they give an impression that there is something magic and significant that the South African Government and oil industry can do about the petrol price. They are misleading the consumers and that is not fair. The price of petrol, by and large, is influenced by the price of a barrel of crude oil at the source. Any tinkering that we can do - which is something that we are looking at - is actually minimal. Those members should not raise the hopes of people. They should concentrate on some of the effective measures that people can take in their lives because there is a lot of wastage. They must not downplay some of the education that we are trying to promote which will give people genuine relief, by giving people false hopes.

The opposition wants us to subsidise the price of petrol. South Africa is in the middle in terms of what it charges for tax in relation to the petrol price. At the top are countries such as France at about 70%, and we are in the thirties. At the bottom are countries such as Zimbabwe and others. Do those members want to stand in a queue with an empty ``spakpak’’? There is a course in this shortcut that they are pushing us to. We are a responsible Government; we will not take popular decisions that will come back and haunt us, finish and klaar! [Applause.]

As far as I am concerned, we are in the process of discussing measures by which we can continuously try to improve. We are willing to hear them out, but they should not abuse this platform and mislead the whole nation. I think it is unfair and it is criminal. [Interjections.] On the issue of rollovers that was also raised by one of the hon members, all of these rollovers are actually accounted for in our budget. In reality we did not have a rollover. In fact, we overspent, but the money was just committed. Of course, if I had more time I would itemise it, but this answer will be available.

On the issue of radioactive waste management, the polluter-pays principle obtains also in the nuclear sector. There will be no issuing of a licence to a generator without looking at all these measures and how this will be paid for. As things stand now, Eskom does pay for its waste management at Koeberg. We are not going to change those principles but we also heed the caution that hon members are raising. That is why we will not take any rushed decision on anything that has to do with the nuclear industry. We also share the concern and the fear that the communities have.

On the issue of renewable technology and whether it is safe and reliable, one of the reasons we do not have as much renewable energy in our energy mix as hon members and I would like to have, is exactly because the technology is not as advanced as we would like it to be. Research is being undertaken, we are investing in it, and hopefully, over time, we will see an increase. But right now we do not have all the answers that we need. I must say it is heartwarming to know that today, in areas like deep rural KwaZulu-Natal, we actually have more than a thousand households that are using fuel cells. That is progress.

In areas such as Cofimvaba there are wind turbines. In areas such as Lubisi, people are actually using wind turbines. The combination of the skills that we have in the CSIR, and very soon in the Central Energy Fund, which we are also mandating to get involved in this sector, will mean that we will increase our capacity as a country to improve delivery in this area, and of course Eskom has considerable investment in this area.

About the percentage of blacks who own companies in the mining industry, I do not want to polarise the House, because I think we all know the answer. I do not want to use this platform to bash the mining industry because we actually want to win them over, so that they can take a responsible step. We want to assist them to make sure that we can include, and increase the participation of, black people, but, really, ownership by black people is dismal. We all know that the challenge is for us not to flog the dead horse but to assist in waking it up, so that we all have a bright future. As hon members know, we in the ANC actually believe that South Africa belongs to all those who work in it, black and white, and we think that in this industry there is room for all. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Minister, just before you leave, in your closing comments regarding some of the statements, you said they were unfair and criminal. May I request you to withdraw the word criminal''? You may say it is unfair and unfortunate, but because there is total freedom of speech in Parliament, it cannot be criminal. I would request you please to withdraw the wordcriminal’’.

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: I withdraw it, Chairperson. But some of the ``skelms’’ here must not be naughty. [Laughter.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: Chairperson, the hon the Minister referred to some of the skelms'' here ... [Interjections.] ... and that must refer to hon members. May I ask you to ask the hon the Minister to withdraw that, Sir. There are noskelms’’ here, but only hon members.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, I fully uphold the argument that there are only hon members here. Again, I would like to request the hon the Minister to withdraw the reference to ``skelms’’.

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Mr Chairperson, I withdraw. I will not even call them ``hon skelms’’. I withdraw unconditionally, because the party has to begin.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon colleagues, you have been working voluntary overtime, so thank you very much.

Debate concluded.

The House adjourned at 20:30. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

THURSDAY, 28 MARCH 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Dr S C Cwele has been appointed as chairperson of the Joint Standing
 Committee on Intelligence with effect from 22 March 2002.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the
     Truth and Reconciliation Commission for 2000-2001 [RP 16-2002].


 (2)    Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the
     South African Diamond Board for 2000-2001 [RP 29-2002].

1. The Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:

 (1)    The Agreement on Science and Technological Co-operation between
     the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government
     of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, tabled in terms of section
     231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (2)    The Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
     Africa and the Federal Republic of Nigeria on Co-operation in the
     Field of Arts and Culture, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of
     the Constitution, 1996.

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:

 (1)    Report of the Judicial Service Commission for 2000-2001.


 (2)    Report and Financial Statements of the Legal Aid Board for 2000-
     2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
     Statements for 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Communications:

 Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Department of
 Communications for 1999-2000.

1. The Minister of Labour:

 Strategic Plan of the Department of Labour for 2002-2005.

                        FRIDAY, 5 APRIL 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    Assent by the President of the Republic in respect of the
     following Bills:


      (i)     Social Grants Appropriation Bill [B 9 - 2002] - Act No 2
              of 2002 (assented to and signed by President on 27 March
              2002);
      (ii)    Burundi Protection Support Appropriation Bill [B 10 -
              2002] - Act No 3 of 2002 (assented to and signed by
              President on 27 March 2002);


      (iii)   Unemployment Insurance Contributions Bill [B 85 - 2001] -
              Act No 4 of 2002 (assented to and signed by President on
              27 March 2002); and


      (iv)    Division of Revenue Bill [B 5D - 2002] - Act No 5 of 2002
              (assented to and signed by President on 27 March 2002).

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Minister for Provincial and Local Government on 21 February
     2002 submitted a draft of the Disaster Management Bill, 2002, as
     well as the memorandum explaining the objects of the proposed
     legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint
     Rule 159. The draft has been referred to the Portfolio Committee
     on Provincial and Local Government and the Select Committee on
     Local Government and Administration by the Speaker and the
     Chairperson, respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).


 (2)    The Minister of Finance on 15 March 2002 submitted a draft of
     the Collective Investment Schemes Control Bill, 2002, as well as
     the memorandum explaining the objects of the proposed legislation,
     to the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The
     draft has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Finance and
     the Select Committee on Finance by the Speaker and the
     Chairperson, respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).


 (3)    The Minister of Health on 15 March 2002 submitted drafts of the
     Health Donations Fund Repeal Bill, 2002, and the  Occupational
     Diseases in Mines and Works Amendment Bill, 2002, as well as the
     memoranda explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to
     the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The
     drafts have been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Health and
     the Select Committee on Social Services by the Speaker and the
     Chairperson, respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
 relevant committees as mentioned below:


 (1)    The following paper is referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts:


     Report of the Auditor-General on the Delays in the tabling of
     Annual Reports as required by the Public Finance Management Act,
     1999 (Act No 1 of 1999) [RP 45-2002].


 (2)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Social Development:


     Strategic Plan for Social Development for 2002-2005.


 (3)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Water Affairs and Forestry:


     Strategic Plan for Water Affairs and Forestry for 2002-2005.


 (4)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Minerals and Energy:


     Strategic Plan for the Department of Minerals and Energy for 2002-
     2005.


 (5)    The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts for consideration and report:


     (a)     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
          of the Pan South African Language Board for 2000-2001 [RP 38-
          2002].


     (b)     Report and Financial Statements of the South African
          Revenue Services for 2000-2001, including the Report of the
          Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2000-2001.


 (6)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Labour, the Portfolio Committee on Health and the Portfolio
     Committee on Social Development. The Report of the Auditor-General
     contained in the following paper is referred to the Standing
     Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and report:


     Report and Financial Statements of the Health and Welfare Sector
     Training Authority for 2000-2001, including the Report of the
     Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2000-2001.


 (7)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Justice and Constitutional Development:


     Documents in terms of section 9(1) of the Promotion of National
     Unity and Reconciliation Act, 1995, regarding the Remuneration,
     Allowances and other Employment Benefits of the Staff of the Truth
     and Reconciliation Commission.


 (8)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Foreign Affairs:


     Strategic Plan for the Department of Foreign Affairs for 2002-
     2005.


 (9)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Defence:


     (a)     Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
          Africa and the Government of the State of Qatar concerning Co-
          operation in the Military Field, tabled in terms of section
          231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (b)     Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of the
          Republic of South Africa and the Government of the People's
          Republic of China concerning Defence Co-operation, tabled in
          terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (c)     Arrangement between the Department of Defence of the
          Republic of South Africa and the Minister of Foreign Affairs
          of the Netherlands, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
          Constitution, 1996.
     (d)     Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of the
          Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of
          Burundi concerning the South African Mission in Support of the
          Implementation of the Arusha Peace and Reconciliation
          Agreement for Burundi, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of
          the Constitution, 1996.


     (e)     Specific Arrangement between the Government of the
          Republic of South Africa and the Kingdom of Belgium on The
          Funding of the South African Protection Support Detachment in
          Support of the Implementation of the Arusha Peace and
          Reconciliation Agreement for Burundi, tabled in terms of
          section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (f)     Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of the
          Republic of South Africa and the United Nations contributing
          Resources to the "Mission de l'Organisation des Nations Unies
          au Congo" (MONUC), tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
          Constitution, 1996.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry:

 (1)    Government Notice No R.652 published in Government Gazette No
     22472 dated 20 July 2001, Norms and Standards in respect of
     Tariffs for Water Services, made in terms of section 10(1) of the
     Water Services Act, 1997 (Act No 108 of 1997).


 (2)    General Notice No 1775 published in Government Gazette No 22527
     dated 1 August 2001, Draft Regulations under the National Veld and
     Forest Fire Act, 1998 (Act No 101 of 1998).


 (3)    Government Notice No 757 published in Government Gazette No
     22577 dated 24 August 2001, Determining of an Interest Rate, made
     in terms of section 59(3)(a) of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act
     No 36 of 1998).


 (4)    Government Notice No 850 published in Government Gazette No
     22652 dated 7 September 2001, Invitation to submit written
     comments on Proposed Directions with regard to the Control and
     Management of General Communal and General Small Waste Disposal
     sites, made in terms of section 20(5) of the Environment
     Conservation Act, 1989 (Act No 73 of 1989).


 (5)    Government Notice No 1096 published in Government Gazette No
     22801 dated 9 November 2001, Determining of an Interest Rate, made
     in terms of section 59(3)(a) of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act
     No 36 of 1998).


 (6)    Government Notice No 1173 published in Government Gazette No
     22830 dated 13 November 2001, Regarding the Prohibition on the
     making of Fires in the Open Air: Western Cape, made in terms of
     the Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).


 (7)    Government Notice No 1174 published in Government Gazette No
     22830 dated 13 November 2001, Regarding the Prohibition on the
     making of Fires in the Open Air: Districts of Clanwilliam,
     Piketberg, Ceres, Tulbagh, Worcester, Caledon, Paarl,
     Stellenbosch, Strand and Somerset West, made in terms of the
     Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).


 (8)    Government Notice No 1175 published in Government Gazette No
     22830 dated 13 November 2001, Regarding the Prohibition on the
     making of Fires in the Open Air: Districts of Swellendam and
     Montagu, made in terms of the Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of
     1984).


 (9)    Government Notice No 1201 published in Government Gazette No
     22839 dated 23 November 2001, Regarding the Establishment of the
     Thabina Irrigation Scheme Water User Association, District of
     Mopani in the Northern Province, Water Management Area Number 2,
     made in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


 (10)   Government Notice No 1306 published in Government Gazette No
     22904 dated 14 December 2001, Regarding the Transformation of the
     Kalahari West Water Board, Division of Gordonia, Province of the
     Northern Cape, into the Kalahari West Water User Association,
     Water Management Area Number 14, Province of the Northern Cape,
     made in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
 (11)   Government Notice No 1307 published in Government Gazette No
     22904 dated 14 December 2001, Regarding the Transformation of the
     Kalahari East Water Board, Division of Postmasburg and Kuruman,
     Province of the Northern Cape, into the Kalahari East Water User
     Association, Water Management Area Number 10, Province of the
     Northern Cape, made in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act
     No 36 of 1998).


 (12)   Government Notice No 1308 published in Government Gazette No
     22904 dated 14 December 2001, Regarding the Transformation of the
     Kat River Irrigation Board, Division of Stockenstroom, Victoria
     East and Fort Beaufort, Province of the Eastern Cape, into the Kat
     River Valley Water User Association, Water Management Area Number
     15, Province of the Eastern Cape, made in terms of the National
     Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


 (13)   Government Notice No 1309 published in Government Gazette No
       22904 dated 14 December 2001, Regarding the Transformation of
       the Great Letaba Major Irrigation Board, Districts of Letaba and
       Pietersburg, Northern Province, into the Letaba Water User
       Association, Water Management Area Number 2, Northern Province,
       made in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of
       1998).


(14)    Government Notice No 1357 published in Government Gazette No
       22929 dated 14 December 2001, Assessing DWAF's compliance with
       the NEMA Principles, made in terms of the National Environmental
       Management Act, 1998 (Act No 107 of 1998).


 (15)   Government Notice No 42 published in Government Gazette No 23037
       dated 25 January 2002, Regarding the Transformation of the Blyde
       River Irrigation Board, Magisterial District of Phalaborwa,
       Northern Province, into the Lower Blyde River Water User
       Association, Water Management Area Number 4, Northern Province,
       made in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of
       1998).


 (16)   Government Notice No 89 published in Government Gazette No 23053
       dated 1 February 2002, Regarding the Establishment of the
       Lebalelo Water User Association, Districts of Letaba and
       Lydenburg, in the Northern and Mpumalanga Provinces, Water
       Management Area Number 4, made in terms of the National Water
       Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


 (17)   Government Notice No 91 published in Government Gazette No 23053
       dated 1 February 2002, Directions with regard to the Control and
       Management of General Communal and General Small Waste Disposal
       Sites, made in terms of section 20(5)(b) of the Environment
       Conservation Act, 1989 (Act No 73 of 1989). 2.    The Minister of Transport:


 (1)    Report and Financial Statements of the Road Accident Fund for
     2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor General on the
     Financial Statements for 2000-2001 [RP 31-2002].


 (2)    Strategic Plan of the Department of Transport for 2002-2003.

1. The Minister of Sport and Recreation:

 Strategic Plan of the Department of Sport and Recreation for 2002-2004.

1. The Minister of Correctional Services:

 Strategic Plan of the Department of Correctional Services for 2002-
 2005.

                        MONDAY, 15 APRIL 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS: National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 The following changes have been made to the membership of Joint
 Committees, viz:


 Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women:


 Appointed: Mathibela, N F; Mbuyazi, L R (Alt); Ngubane, H (Alt);
 Roopnarain, U.


 Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth and
 Disabled Persons:


 Appointed: Dhlamini, B W (Alt); Mbuyazi, L R.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

The following changes have been made to the membership of Portfolio and
 Standing Committees , viz:


 Communications:


 Appointed: Phadagi, M G (Alt).


 Environmental Affairs and Tourism:


 Appointed: Phadagi, M G.


 Finance:


 Appointed: Andrew, K M (Alt).


 Health:


 Appointed: Cachalia, I M; Mathibela, N F; Twala, N M (Alt).


 Public Accounts:


 Appointed: Lowe, C M.
 Discharged: Taljaard, R.


 Trade and Industry:


 Appointed: Phadagi, M G (Alt).

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Finance:

 (1)    Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
     and the Government of the Republic of the Seychelles for the
     Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion
     with respect to Taxes on Income, tabled in terms of section 231(2)
     of the Constitution, 1996.


 (2)    Explanatory Memorandum on the Double Taxation Agreement between
     the Republic of South Africa and the Republic of the Seychelles.

1. The Minister of Transport:

 (1)    Air Transport Agreement between the Government of the Republic
     of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of Germany,
     tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (2)    Bilateral Air Services Agreement between the Government of the
     Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Federal
     Republic of Brazil, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
     Constitution, 1996.

1. The Minister of Safety and Security:

 Strategic Plan of the Independent Complaints Directorate for 2002-2005
 [RP 51-2002].

1. The Minister of Communications:

 Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Department of
 Communications for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-
 General on the Financial Statements for 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Labour:

 Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Construction Education
 and Training Authority for 2000-2001, including the Report of the
 Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2000-2001 [RP 19-2002].

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Communications on the Media Development and Diversity Agency Bill [B 2 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 18 March 2002:

   The Portfolio Committee on Communications, having considered the subject of the Media Development and Diversity Agency Bill [B 2 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 2A - 2002].

                     FRIDAY, 19 APRIL 2002
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development on 7
     March 2002 submitted drafts of the Constitution of the Republic of
     South Africa Amendment Bill, 2002, and the Constitution of the
     Republic of South Africa Second Amendment Bill, 2002, as well as
     the memorandums explaining the objects of the proposed
     legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint
     Rule 159. The drafts have been referred to the Portfolio Committee
     on Justice and Constitutional Development and the Select Committee
     on Security and Constitutional Affairs by the Speaker and the
     Chairperson, respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).


 (2)    The Minister of Minerals and Energy on 11 April 2002 submitted a
     draft of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Bill,
     2002, as well as the memorandum explaining the objects of the
     proposed legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms
     of Joint Rule 159. The draft has been referred to the Portfolio
     Committee on Minerals and Energy and the Select Committee on
     Economic and Foreign Affairs by the Speaker and the Chairperson,
     respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).


 (3)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister for Justice
     and Constitutional Development in the National Assembly on 18
     April 2002 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Insolvency Amendment Bill [B 14 - 2002] (National Assembly
          - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its
          introduction published in Government Gazette No 23231 of 15
          March 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice
     and Constitutional Development of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
     the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
     working days.


 (4)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister of Minerals
     and Energy in the National Assembly on 19 April 2002 and referred
     to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms
     of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Bill [B 15 -
          2002] (National Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of
          Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in
          Government Gazette No 23316 of 12 April 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Minerals
     and Energy of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
     the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
     working days.


 (5)    The following Bills were introduced by the Minister for Justice
     and Constitutional Development in the National Assembly on 19
     April 2002 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Constitution of the Republic of South Africa Amendment
             Bill [B 16 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 74) [Bill and
             prior notice of its introduction published in Government
             Gazette No 23218 of 11 March 2002.]


     (ii)    Constitution of the Republic of South Africa Second
             Amendment Bill [B 17 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 74)
             [Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in
             Government Gazette No 23218 of 11 March 2002.]


     The Bills have been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice
     and Constitutional Development of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
     the Bills may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
     working days.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:

 (1)    Government Notice No R.37 published in Government Gazette No
     23029 dated 18 January 2002, Magistrates Courts: Amendment of the
     Rules of Court, made in terms of section 6 of the Rules Board for
     Courts of Law Act, 1985 (Act No 107 of 1985).
 (2)    Government Notice No R.38 published in Government Gazette No
     23029 dated 18 January 2002, Magistrates Courts: Amendment of the
     Rules of Court, made in terms of section 6 of the Rules Board for
     Courts of Law Act, 1985 (Act No 107 of 1985).


 (3)    Proclamation No R.9 published in Government Gazette No 23119
     dated 15 February 2002, Commencement of sections 10, 14, 16, and
     51, made in terms of the Promotion of Access to Information Act,
     2000 (Act No 2 of 2000).


 (4)    Government Notice No R.187 published in Government Gazette No
     23119 dated 15 February 2002, Regulations regarding the Promotion
     of Access to Information, made in terms of the Promotion of Access
     to Information Act, 2000 (Act No 2 of 2000).


 (5)    Government Notice No 292 published in Government Gazette No
     23176 dated 28 February 2002, Directives made in terms of section
     7 of the Criminal Matters Amendment Act, 1998 (Act No 68 of 1998).


 (6)    Proclamation No R.15 published in Government Gazette No 23149
     dated 15 February 2002, Commencement of the Criminal Matters
     Amendment Act, 1998 (Act No 68 of 1998).


 (7)    Government Notice No R.213 published in Government Gazette No
     23149 dated 28 February 2002, Determination of remuneration
     payable to curator ad litem, made in terms of section 29 of the
     Mental Health Act, 1973 (Act No 18 of 1973).


 (8)    Government Notice No R.214 published in the Government Gazette
     No 23149 dated 28 February 2002, Regulations prescribing the
     tariff of allowances payable to psychiatrists who appear as
     witnesses in court, made in terms of the Criminal Procedure Act,
     1977 (Act No 51 of 1977).


 (9)    Strategic Plan for the Department of Justice and Constitutional
     Development for 2002-2005.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 Written comments received from the public and provincial legislatures
 on the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa Amendment Bill [B
 16 - 2002] and the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa Second
 Amendment Bill [B 17 - 2002], submitted by the Minister for Justice and
 Constitutional Development in terms of section 74(6)(a) of the
 Constitution, 1996.


 Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional
 Development.

                        MONDAY, 22 APRIL 2002

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Finance:

 (1)    Proclamation No 17 published in Government Gazette No 23169
     dated 28 February 2002, Commencement of the Financial Intelligence
     Centre Act, 2001 (Act No 38 of 2001).


 (2)    Proclamation R.19 published in Government Gazette No 23196 dated
     1 March 2002, Fixing of date on which sections 37(1), 38(1) and
     48(1) shall come into operation, made in terms of the Revenue Laws
     Amendment Act, 2001 (Act No 19 of 2001).


 (3)    Government Notice No R.256 published in Government Gazette No
     23196 dated 1 March 2002, Determination interest rate for purposes
     of paragraph (a) of the definition of "official rate of interest"
     in paragraph 1 of the Seventh Schedule, made in terms of the
     Income Tax Act, 1962 (Act No 58 of 1962).


 (4)    Proclamation Notice No 20 published in Government Gazette No
     23207 dated 15 March 2002, Appointment of members of the Special
     Courts for the hearing of income tax appeals, made in terms of the
     Income Tax Act, 1962 (Act No 58 of 1962).


 (5)    Government Notice No R.335 published in Government Gazette No
     23246 dated 18 March 2002, Draft Treasury Regulations, made in
     terms of section 78 of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999
     (Act No 1 of 1999).

1. The Minister of Home Affairs:

 A list of approved early naturalisation applications in terms of
 section 5(9) of the South African Citizenship Act, 1995 (Act No 88 of
 1995).


 Copies of the list of applications are available at the Office of the
 Clerk of Papers on request.

                      WEDNESDAY, 24 APRIL 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 The Minister in the Presidency submitted the umTheto wokuThuthukisa
 zokuRhatjha mazombe kunye neHlangano ejamele iindlela zokurhatjha
 ezahlukeneko [B 2 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75) to the Speaker
 and the Chairperson on 23 April 2002. This is the official translation
 of the Media Development and Diversity Agency Bill [B 2 - 2002]
 (National Assembly - sec 75), which was introduced in the National
 Assembly by the Minister on 4 February 2002.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 Letter from the President of the Republic, dated 28 March 2002,
 addressed to the Speaker of the National Assembly informing Parliament
 of the resignation of the Inspector-General of Intelligence, Dr F
 Randera.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 General Report of the Auditor-General on audit outcomes for 2000-2001
 [RP 58-2002].

                       THURSDAY, 25 APRIL 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister of Social
     Development in the National Assembly on 24 April 2002 and referred
     to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms
     of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Probation Services Amendment Bill [B 18 - 2002] (National
           Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
           notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette
           No 23072 of 8 February 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Social
     Development of the National Assembly.
     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
     the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
     working days.


 (2)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister for Justice
     and Constitutional Development in the National Assembly on 25
     April 2002 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Prevention of Corruption Bill [B 19 - 2002] (National
          Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
          notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No
          23336 of 18 April 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice
     and Constitutional Development of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
     the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
     working days.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 Mr F Beukman has been appointed as Chairperson of the Standing
 Committee on Public Accounts with effect from 24 April 2002.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs:

 The Strategic Plan for the Department of Agriculture for 2002-2005. 2.    The Minister of Health:


 (1)    The Strategic Plan for the Department of Health for 2001-2004.


 (2)    The Operational Plans of the Department of Health for 2002-2003.

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Minister for the Public Service and Administration on 11
     April 2002 submitted a draft of the State Information Technology
     Agency Amendment Bill, 2002, as well as the memorandum explaining
     the objects of the proposed legislation, to the Speaker and the
     Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The draft has been
     referred to the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and
     Administration and the Select Committee on Local Government and
     Administration by the Speaker and the Chairperson, respectively,
     in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).


 (2)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister of Health in
     the National Assembly on 29 April 2002 and referred to the Joint
     Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule
     160:


     (i)     Health Donations Fund Act Repeal Bill [B 20 - 2002]
          (National Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and
          prior notice of its introduction published in Government
          Gazette No 23251 of 20 March 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Health of
     the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
     the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
     working days.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 The following changes have been made to the membership of Committees,
 viz:


 Home Affairs:


 Appointed: Swart, S N (Alt).


 Labour:


 Appointed: Madasa, Z L (Alt).


 Minerals and Energy:


 Appointed: Dudley, C (Alt).


 Private Members' Legislative Proposals and Special Petitions:
 Appointed: Swart, S N (Alt).


 Public Accounts:


 Appointed: Beukman, F; Dudley, C.
 Discharged: Blaas, A; Green, L.


 Public Service and Administration:


 Appointed: Madasa, Z L (Alt).


 Trade and Industry:


 Appointed: Madasa, Z L.
 Discharged: Dudley, C.

1. The Speaker:

 The following member vacated her seat with effect from 22 April 2002:


 Ncube, B N Z.

1. The Speaker: Letter from the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development, dated 22 April 2002, addressed to the Speaker of the National Assembly informing Parliament that the period of office of the Public Protector, Adv S A M Baqwa, is due to come to an end during September 2002.

2. The Speaker:

 The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
 relevant committees as mentioned below:


 (1)    The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts:


     (a)     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
          of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission for 2000-2001 [RP
          16-2002].


     (b)     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
          of the South African Diamond Board for 2000-2001 [RP 29-2002].


 (2)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Health:


     (a)     Strategic Plan for the Department of Health for 2001-2004.


     (b)     The Operations Plans of the Department of Health for 2002-
          2003.


 (3)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Agriculture and Land Affairs:


     Strategic Plan for the Department of Agriculture for 2002-2005.


 (4)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:
     (a)     The Agreement on Science and Technological Co-operation
          between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the
          Government of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, tabled in terms
          of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (b)     The Agreement between the Government of the Republic of
          South Africa and the Federal Republic of Nigeria on Co-
          operation in the Field of Arts and Culture, tabled in terms of
          section 231(3) of the constitution, 1996.


 (5)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Justice and Constitutional Development. The Report of the Auditor-
     General contained in the following papers are referred to the
     Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and
     report:


     (a)     General Report of the Auditor-General on audit outcomes
          for 2000-2001 [RP 58-2002].
     (b)     Report of the Judicial Service Commission for 2000-2001.


     (c)     Report and Financial Statements of the Legal Aid Board for
          2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
          Financial Statements for 2000-2001.


 (6)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Communications:


     Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Department of
     Communications for 1999-2000.


 (7)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Labour:


     Strategic Plan of the Department of Labour for 2002-2005.


 (8)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Transport. The Report of the Auditor-General contained in the
     following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on Public
     Accounts for consideration and report:


     (a)     Report and Financial Statements of the Road Accident Fund
          for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
          the Financial Statements for 2002-2004.


     (b)     Strategic Plan of the Department of Transport for 2002-
          2003.


 (9)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Sport and Recreation:


     Strategic Plan of the Department of Sport and Recreation for 2002-
     2004.


 (10)   The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Water Affairs and Forestry:
     (1)     Government Notice No R. 652 published in Government
          Gazette No 22472 dated 20 July 2001, Norms and Standards in
          respect of Tariffs for Water Services, made in terms of
          section 10(1) of the Water Services Act, 1997 (Act No 108 of
          1997).


     (2)     General Notice No 1775 published in Government Gazette No
          22527 dated 1 August 2001, Draft Regulations under the
          National Veld and Forest Fire Act, 1998 (Act No 101 of 1998).


     (3)     Government Notice No 757 published in Government Gazette
          No 22577 dated 24 August 2001, Determining of an Interest
          Rate, made in terms of section 59(3)(a) of the National Water
          Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


     (4)     Government Notice No 850 published in Government Gazette
          No 22652 dated 7 September 2001, Invitation to submit written
          comments on Proposed Directions with regard to the Control and
          Management of General Communal and General Small Waste
          Disposal sites, made in terms of section 20(5) of the
          Environment Conservation Act 1989 (Act No 73 of 1989).


     (5)     Government Notice No 1096 published in Government Gazette
          No 22801 dated 9 November 2001, Determining of an Interest
          Rate, made in terms of section 59(3)(a) of the National Water
          Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


     (6)     Government Notice No 1173 published in Government Gazette
          No 22830 dated 13 November 2001, Regarding the Prohibition on
          the making of Fires in the Open Air: Western Cape, made in
          terms of the Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).


     (7)     Government Notice No 1174 published in Government Gazette
          No 22830 dated 13 November 2001, Regarding the Prohibition on
          the making of Fires in the Open Air: Districts of Clanwilliam,
          Piketberg, Ceres, Tulbagh, Worcester, Caledon, Paarl,
          Stellenbosch, Strand and Somerset West, made in terms of the
          Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).


     (8)     Government Notice No 1175 published in Government Gazette
          No 22830 dated 13 November 2001, Regarding the Prohibition on
          the making of Fires in the Open Air: Districts of Swellendam
          and Montagu, made in terms of the Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122
          of 1984).


     (9)     Government Notice No 1201 published in Government Gazette
          No 22839 dated 23 November 2001, Regarding the Establishment
          of the Thabina Irrigation Scheme Water User Association,
          District of Mopani in the Northern Province, Water Management
          Area Number 2, made in terms of the National Water Act, 1998
          (Act No 36 of 1998).


     (10)    Government Notice No 1306 published in Government Gazette
           No 22904 dated 14 December 2001, Regarding the
           Transformation of the Kalahari West Water Board, Division of
           Gordonia, Province of the Northern Cape, into the Kalahari
           West Water User Association, Water Management Area Number
           14, Province of the Northern Cape, made in terms of the
           National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


    (11)     Government Notice No 1307 published in Government Gazette
           No 22904 dated 14 December 2001, Regarding the
           Transformation of the Kalahari East Water Board, Division of
           Postmasburg and Kuruman, Province of the Northern Cape, into
           the Kalahari East Water User Association, Water Management
           Area Number 10, Province of the Northern Cape, in terms of
           the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


    (12)     Government Notice No 1308 published in Government Gazette
          No 22904 dated 14 December 2001, Regarding the Transformation
          of the Kat River Irrigation Board, Division of Stockenstroom,
          Victoria East and Fort Beaufort, Province of the Eastern Cape,
          into the Kat River Valley Water User Association, Water
          Management Area Number 15, Province of the Eastern Cape, made
          in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


     (13)    Government Notice No 1309 published in Government Gazette
           No 22904 dated 14 December 2001, Regarding the
           Transformation of the Great Letaba Major Irrigation Board,
           Districts of Letaba and Pietersburg, Northern Province, into
           the Letaba Water User Association, Water Management Area
           Number 2, Northern Province, made in terms of the National
           Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


     (14)    Government Notice No 1357 published in Government Gazette
           No 22929 dated 14 December 2001, Assessing DWAF's compliance
           with the NEMA Principles, made in terms of the National
           Environmental Management Act, 1998 (Act No 107 of 1998).


     (15)    Government Notice No 42 published in Government Gazette No
           23037 dated 25 January 2002, Regarding the Transformation of
           the Blyde River Irrigation Board, Magisterial District of
           Phalaborwa, Northern Province, into the Lower Blyde River
           Water User Association, Water Management Area Number 4,
           Northern Province, made in terms of the National Water Act,
           1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


     (16)    Government Notice No 89 published in Government Gazette No
           23053 dated 1 February 2002, Regarding the Establishment of
           the Lebalelo Water User Association, Districts of Letaba and
           Lydenburg, in the Northern and Mpumalanga Provinces, Water
           Management Area Number 4, made in terms of the National
           Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


     (17)    Government Notice No 91 published in Government Gazette No
           23053 dated 1 February 2002, Directions with regard to the
           Control and Management of General Communal and General Small
           Waste Disposal Sites, made in terms of section 20(5)(b) of
           the Environment Conservation Act, 1989 (Act No 73 of 1989).

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the
     Meat Board for 1999-2000 [RP 37-2002].


 (2)    Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the
     Citrus Board for 1999-2000 [RP 47-2002].


 (3)    Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the
     Maize Board for 2000-2001 [RP 46-2002].

1. The Speaker:

 (1)    Submission of the Financial and Fiscal Commission on the
     Division of Revenue for 2003-2004, tabled in terms of section 9 of
     the Intergovernmental Fiscal Relations Act, 1997 (Act No 97 of
     1997).


 (2)    Report of the Public Protector on an investigation pertaining to
     the purchase of pieces of jewellery by the Minister of Minerals
     and Energy.


 Report is tabled for information and copies of the report are available
 from the office of the Clerk of the Papers.

1. The Minister of Finance:

 (1)    Proclamation No R.28 published in Government Gazette No 23284,
     dated 28 March 2002, Determination of date of commencement of
     Unemployment Insurance Contributions Act, 2002 (Act No 4 of 2002).


 (2)    Proclamation No R.30 published in Government Gazette No 23292,
     dated 28 March 2002, Commencement of Division of Revenue Act, 2002
     (Act No 5 of 2002).

                       TUESDAY, 30 APRIL 2002

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Transport:

 (a)    Bilateral Air Services Agreement between the Government of the
     Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Islamic
     Republic of Pakistan, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
     Constitution, 1996.


 (b)    Explanatory Memorandum to the Agreement.

1. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs:

 The Medium Term Strategic and Operational Plan of the Department of
 Land Affairs for 2002-2006.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Joint Committee on Constitutional Review, dated 30 April 2002, as follows:

   The Joint Rules of Parliament provide that the Committee must review the Constitution annually and report on the review to the Assembly and the Council. The Rules also provide that the Committee must, by notice in the public media by 1 May, invite the public to submit to the Committee, within 30 days after placing of the advertisement, written representations on any constitutional matter (Joint Rule 102(1) and (2).

   As a result of a very full parliamentary programme, the Committee requests the Assembly and the Council to give it permission to place its advertisement referred to in paragraph (2) above before 10 May 2002.

 Report to be considered.

                        THURSDAY, 2 MAY 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 The following Bill was introduced by the Minister for Provincial and
 Local Government in the National Assembly on 2 May 2002 and referred to
 the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint
 Rule 160:


 (i)    Disaster Management Bill [B 21 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec
     76) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its
     introduction published in Government Gazette No 23254 of 28 March
     2002.]


 The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Provincial and
 Local Government of the National Assembly.


 In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of the
 Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary working
 days.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 Dr Z P Jordan has been appointed as chairperson of the Portfolio
 Committee on Foreign Affairs with effect from 2 May 2002.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Communications on the Filling of Vacancies on ICASA Board, dated 25 April 2002:

   The Portfolio Committee on Communications, having considered the shortlist of candidates, recommends the following persons as councillors to the ICASA Board:

       (1)      Ms Nadia Bulbulia;
       (2)      Ms Mamoduphi Mohlala;
       (3)      Mr Lumko Mtimde.
   

 Report to be considered.

                         FRIDAY, 3 MAY 2002 ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 Mr N H Masithela has been appointed as chairperson of the Portfolio
 Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs with effect from 2 May 2002.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Correctional Services:

 Annual Report of the Judicial Inspectorate on Prisons and Prisoners for
 2001-2002 [RP 61-2002].

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs on Winter Cereal Industry, dated 23 April 2002:

   The Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs, having considered the application by the National Agricultural Marketing Council for the implementation of the statutory measures in the Winter Cereal Industry, reports, in terms of section 15 of the Marketing of Agricultural Products Act, 1996, that it has approved the recommendations of the council.

                      MONDAY, 6 MAY 2002
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 (1)    Mr M J Mahlangu has resigned as Chairperson of Committees with
     effect from 7 May 2002.


 (2)    Mrs M A A Njobe has been appointed as chairperson of the
     Portfolio Committee on Arts, Culture, Science and Technology with
     effect from 2 May 2002.

1. The Speaker:

 The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
 relevant committees as mentioned below:


 (1)    The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts:


     (a)     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
          of the Meat Board for 1999-2000 [RP 37-2002].


     (b)     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
          of the Citrus Board for 1999-2000 [RP 47-2002].


     (c)     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
          of the Maize Board for 2000-2001 [RP 46-2002].


 (2)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Social Development for consideration and report. It is also
     referred to the Portfolio Committee on Finance and the Portfolio
     Committee on Provincial and Local Government:


     Submission of the Financial and Fiscal Commission on the Division
     of Revenue for 2003-2004, tabled in terms of section 9 of the
     Intergovernmental and Fiscal Relations Act, 1997 (Act No 97 of
     1997).


 (3)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Finance:


     Proclamation No R.28 published in Government Gazette No 23284,
     dated 28 March 2002, Determination of date of commencement of
     Unemployment Insurance Contributions Act, 2002 (Act No 4 of 2002).


     Proclamation No R.30 published in Government Gazette No 23292,
     dated 28 March 2002, Commencement of Division of Revenue Act, 2002
     (Act No 5 of 2002).


 (4)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Transport:


     Bilateral Air Services Agreement between the Government of the
     Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Islamic
     Republic of Pakistan, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
     Constitution, 1996.


 (5)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Agriculture and Land Affairs:


     The Medium Term Strategic and Operational Plan of the Department
     of Land Affairs for 2002-2006.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Transport:

 (1)    Bilateral Air Services Agreement Between the Government of the
     Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Federal
     Democratic Republic of Ethiopia, tabled in terms of section 231(3)
     of the Constitution, 1996.


 (2)    Explanatory Memorandum to the Agreement.

1. The Minister of Trade and Industry:

 (1)    Trade Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
     Africa and the Government of the Republic of Bulgaria, tabled in
     terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (2)    Explanatory Memorandum to the Agreement.


 (3)    Trade and Economic Co-operation Agreement between the Government
     of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic
     of Belarus, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution,
     1996.


 (4)    Explanatory Memorandum to the Agreement.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. First Report of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, dated 13 March 2002:

 The Standing Commmittee on Public Accounts reports as follows:


 The Committee heard evidence from the Director-General and acting Chief
 Financial Officer of the Department of Justice and Constitutional
 Development on 14 November 2001 on the Reports of the Auditor-General
 on the Financial Statements of Vote 18 - Justice and Constitutional
 Development for the year ended 31 March 2001 and on the Statement of
 Monies in Trust (formerly Deposit Account) administered by the
 Department of Constitutional Development for the year ended 31 March
 2001.


 A.     Report on Financial Statements of Vote 18 - Justice and
     Constitutional Development for year ended 31 March 2001 (Part A,
     Annexure to RP 158/2001)


     In the Report under review, the Auditor-General withheld his
     opinion on the financial statements of the Department, and
     qualified his opinion on compliance by it with laws and
     regulations applicable to financial matters. This indicates a
     worsening in the financial management position from the previous
     year. It is with concern that the Committee wishes to report on
     the following specific areas:


     1. Expenditure [par 2.2.1(a)]


          The Committee was informed that the Department was unable to
          present supporting documentation as assurance for the validity
          of expenditure amounting to R7 million. In addition, a very
          serious capturing backlog existed regarding the financial
          management system resulting in uncertainty regarding the
          accuracy and completeness of the amounts included in the
          income statement and balance sheet. There was also
          overstatement of expenditure, as well as unrecorded
          expenditure.


          The Committee welcomed the Director-General's indication that
          the bulk of the backlogs would be cleared by the end of March
          2002. It was also learned that there was a serious backlog
          regarding the writing-up of books within the Department, and
          that a concerted effort was being made to correct the
          situation but that there was no indication when the task would
          be completed.


          The Committee expects progress would have been made by the end
          of the 2001-2002 financial year regarding the work of both
          task teams. The Committee recommends that the Director-General
          report thereon within a month of receipt of these
          recommendations. He should also provide a clear indication of
          how long it should take to fully correct the situation, as
          well as indicate the risks for delays and how such risks were
          being addressed.
     2. Internal control environment [par 2.2.1(g)]


          Internal controls are essential to any sound system of
          financial management, and fundamental to curbing fraud and
          corruption. The Committee was therefore very perturbed at the
          acknowledgement by the Chief Financial Officer that the
          Department was not in a position to provide assurance to
          Parliament of a proper internal control environment.


          The Committee wishes to point out that, owing to its
          stewardship of public monies, the Department cannot be allowed
          to compromise on internal controls. In addition, given the
          nature of its work, the Department of Justice should set an
          example with regard to a disciplined management environment.


          The Committee therefore recommends that the Director-General
          afford this matter the highest priority. The Committee has
          also written to the Chairpersons of the Portfolio Committees
          on Justice and Constitutional Development and on Finance
          highlighting areas of concern. The Director-General must
          continue to explore ways in which the Department can -


          *   reprioritise its budget in order to provide the human and
              technical resources required to support a proper control
              environment; and


          *   implement compensating controls in areas where separation
              of duties is not feasible.


     3. Personnel expenditure [par 2.2.1(a)(I)]
          In the light of the personnel expenditure of the Department,
          totalling R1,6 billion, the Committee is very concerned about
          the various unexplained differences between the personnel and
          salary administration system and the financial management
          system. The extent of the various unexplained differences
          totalled R36,4 million.


          The Committee recommends that the result of the reconciliation
          exercise, as verified by the Department's internal auditors in
          November 2001 as well as by any other reconciliation results
          received subsequently, be reported to the Committee.


          The Committee also recommends that the Director-General report
          on the impact on financial management of the resources
          obtained through the "body shop" tender, and whether progress
          has been in line with performance targets set.


     4. Suspense accounts


          The Committee is concerned about the extensive use of the high-
          risk phenomena of suspense accounts in the Department - in
          March funds in suspense totalled approximately R657,4 million.
          A suspense account is used when no certainty has been reached
          with regard to the proper posting of certain transactions, and
          in the Committees experience is one of the worst ways for a
          department to manage its accounts.


          The Committee recommends that the Director-General resolve the
          systemic problems that may contribute to unnecessary use of
          suspense accounts and implement better discipline among senior
          management staff as regards the use of suspense accounts, and
          provide a regime under which it may be permissible.


     5. Leave credits


          The Committee was informed that a departmental task team would
          complete an audit of the leave records of the Department by
          December 2001.


          The Committee recommends that the Director-General report
          within a month of receipt of this resolution on the result of
          the audit and what corrective steps, if any, are to be
          implemented.


          Internal audit [par 3.7]


          The Committee was informed that the Director-General was in
          the process of assessing the capacity of the internal function
          required by section 38 of the Public Finance Management Act
          (PFMA).


          The Committee recommends that the Director-General report on
          the result of his assessment and indicate whether the contract
          of the firm of auditors currently insourced by the Department
          will be extended, and whether transfer of skills during the
          contract period so far had been adequate.


     6. Thefts and losses


          The Committee noted that during the year under review, losses
          written off amounted to R650,000, down from R2900,000 the
          previous year. However, a proper thefts and losses register
          did not exist and an annual stocktaking of inventory and
          equipment did not take place.


          The Committee recommends that the Director-General ensure that
          a proper thefts and losses register exist by the end of June
          2002. He should also ensure that a proper annual stocktaking,
          to which the external auditors will be invited, will be
          scheduled for the 2002-2003 financial year.


     7. Asset management


          The Committee noted that, with respect to asset management
          within the Department, a programme will be completed by the
          end of January 2002 that will address the proper management of
          classes of assets.


          The Committee recommends that the Auditor-General evaluate the
          aforementioned programme during the 2001-2002 audit and
          specifically report thereon.


     8. Training in financial management


          The Committee commends the Director-General for the extensive
          training interventions that staff members have been exposed
          to, especially training relating to the PFMA.


          The Committee recommends that the Director-General briefly
          report on the return on this investment by, inter alia,
          indicating the total cost of training for the year in
          question, as well as the impact the training has had on the
          performance of the staff members in question, for example by
          evaluating the performance of the staff concerned six months
          after the training intervention, to determine whether the
          training has the desired impact.


     9. Housing guarantees - general financial management capacity
          within Department [par 2.2.1(e)]


          A contingent liability of approximately R22,5 million exists
          with respect to housing guarantees. The Committee commends the
          Director-General on having completed the reconciliation
          between the housing guarantee register and the personnel and
          administration system. However, the Committee is concerned
          that the reconciled state will not be able to be sustained,
          given the staff shortages. The Committee noted that interviews
          in respect of all posts would be completed by the end of
          November 2001.


          The Committee recommends that the Director-General report -


          (a) as a matter of urgency on progress made with regard to the
              filling of all vacancies for financial administrative
              staff; and


          (b) on the adequacy of the performance of the Human Resources
              Department in terms of industry benchmarks for the
              filling of vacant posts.


     10.     Witness protection programme [par 3.3]


          The Committee welcomes the assurance by the Director-General
          that the necessary approval from the State Tender Board
          regarding alternative procurement measures would be obtained
          before the end of the 2001-2002 financial year.


          The Committee recommends that the detail of the arrangements
          with the State Tender Board be provided to the Auditor-General
          for evaluation during the 2001-2002 audit and for specific
          reporting thereon.


     11.     Donor funding [par 2.2.1(c)]


          The Committee took note of a number of shortcomings in the
          financial records in respect of foreign aid assistance.
          Weaknesses in project management were also identified.


          The Committee recommends that by the end of the financial year
          all the deficiencies should have been resolved to the
          satisfaction of the respective donors and the Auditor-General.


          The Committee shall await the report of the Auditor-General on
          the audits of the donor accounts for the last four years
          before making any further recommendations, including the R3,9
          million donor funds for which the Directorate of Special
          Operations is responsible.


     12.     National Directorate of Public Prosecutions: Unresolved
          matters pertaining to 1999-2000 financial year [par 3.8]


          Separate accountability was established for the Directorate of
          Special Operations in December 2000. The Committee took note
          of the following matters reported on by the Auditor-General:
          *   Some unauthorised expenditure amounting to R523 000
              occurred, owing to non-compliance with tender board
              procedures.


          *   During the external audit certain documentation was
              unavailable to validate expenditure totalling R117 000.


          *   Donor funds to the amount of R3,9 million were not
              administered in terms of prescribed procedure.


          The Committee notes with concern the non-compliance with the
          prescripts of the PFMA at the time of the establishment of the
          DSO and the resultant irregular expenditure, which the
          Committee will be reviewing in terms of the applicable legal
          framework.


          The Committee recommends that a submission be made by the
          Chief Executive Officer of the DSO, highlighting the financial
          accountability arrangements between the CEO of the DSO and the
          Accounting Officer of the Department of Justice within a month
          of receipt of these recommendations.


 B.     Report on Statement of Monies in Trust (formerly Deposit
     Account) administered by Department of Constitutional Development
     for year ended 31 March 2001 (Part B, Annexure to RP 158/2001)


     The Committee wishes to express its most serious concern about the
     position regarding the Monies in Trust accounts.


     The Committee recommends that the Director-General immediately
     report to it on the following matters:


     1. Whether the post of Chief Director requested to manage the
          account had been approved, and if so, when it would be filled.




     2. When the Justice Deposit Account System would be fully
          operational.


     3. What progress has been made with regard to automation of
          receipts and payments of monies in trust (including the
          possible involvement of the Post Office).

Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts on Study Tour to Singapore and to Sixth Biennial Australasian Council of Public Accounts Committees (ACPAC) Conference in Canberra, Australia, dated 13 November 2001:

 The Standing Committee on Public Accounts (the Committee) reports as
 follows:
 A.     Introduction


     The Committee, by invitation by the Office of the Auditor-General,
     attended the Sixth Biennial ACPAC Conference held in Canberra,
     Australia, from 4 to 6 February 2001. The tour to Australia
     included an overnight stop in Singapore, where the delegation held
     a brief meeting with their Deputy Auditor-General, Mr Teo Chee
     Khiang.


     The multiparty delegation consisted of Mr D Gumede (ANC), Mr P
     Gerber (ANC), Mr B G Bell (DP) and Ms B Marshoff (ANC), as well as
     Mr E Molefe, Committee Secretary.


 B.     Meeting in Singapore


     1. Purpose of meeting - briefing by Office of Auditor-General on:


          *   Mode of operation of the Public Accounts Committee in
            Singapore


          *   Relationship between the Office of the Auditor-General and
            the Public Accounts Committee


          *   Audit Committees in national departments


          *   Fight against corruption in public sector


          (a) Mode of operation of Public Accounts Committee


              Singapore's public accounts committee consists of seven
              members of Parliament. The Speaker of Parliament appoints
              the chairperson of the committee. Although the ruling
              party has a majority of more than 70%, the Standing
              Orders of Parliament require a balanced representation
              between government benches and the opposition benches.


              The main task of the committee is to examine accounts
              showing the appropriation of the sums granted by
              Parliament to meet the public expenditure, and such
              accounts laid before Parliament as the committee may
              think fit, together with the Auditor-Generals' reports.


              All committee meetings are closed and report becomes only
              a public document when debated in Parliament.


              The committee operates informally and there are no
              standing rules governing it. Parliament provides
              administrative service and researchers. The committee
              shares researchers with other committees.


              The committee's work is focused mainly on Auditor-
              General's reports on state-owned companies. These reports
              are detailed and are submitted individually, whilst a
              summarised general report is prepared for departments.


              The committee, however, is not precluded from requesting
              a detailed report from such a department. This method of
              reporting on the finances of the departments is the
              result of the Audit Act, which prohibits the Auditor-
              General from divulging any information uncovered when
              auditing government departments, except to the President,
              who is not a member of a political party but is elected
              by popular vote.
              The summarised report of the Auditor-General on
              government departments normally concentrate on the
              following:


              *    Financial Audit
                The Auditor-General evaluates proprietary, accuracy and
                transactions.


              *    Compliance Audit


                The Auditor-General evaluates whether laws, regulations
                and policies have been complied with.


              *    Value-for-money Audit


                The Auditor-General evaluates whether there is waste or
                extravagance in the management and use of funds,
                manpower and or other resources.
              *    Programme Audit


                The Auditor-General evaluates the desired results or
                benefits set to measure performance and report on the
                effectiveness of the programme.
          The Auditor-General must inform the President of any proposed
          transaction by the government that is likely to draw on the
          reserves of the government not accumulated by it during its
          term of office. This is the result of an Act of Parliament,
          which precludes a new government from using the reserves
          accumulated by a previous government.


          The committee has the power to summon the Prime Minister to
          appear before it. In practice, the Permanent Secretary, a
          political appointee, is the one summoned by the committee.


          (b) Relationship with Office of Auditor-General


              There is no statute or regulations that require a close
              working relationship between the Auditor-General's office
              and the public accounts committee.
              The officials in the Office of the Auditor-General are
              neither part of the preparatory work performed before the
              hearing nor part of the  drafting of committee reports
              and resolutions. Their relationship is on an ad hoc basis
              - to provide additional information when required to do
              so.


              Article 148-f(1) of the Constitution of Singapore
              requires that the Office of the Auditor-General be
              independent of the government, despite the fact that it
              is being funded by the government.


              The Auditor-General is appointed for a term of six years,
              which is renewable.


          (c) Audit committees in national departments
              There is no law that requires national government
              departments and state-owned departments to appoint audit
              committees. If a state department establishes an audit
              committee, the chairperson of that committee can be an
              employee of that department.


              Cash accounting is practised, but because of legislation,
              assets registers are kept. The value of an asset is at
              purchase price and is not devalued until the asset is
              disposed of.


          (d) Fight against corruption in public sector


              All the investigations on any corrupt practices uncovered
              by the Office of the Auditor-General in the cause of
              auditing state-owned companies and state departments are
              referred to the Corrupt Practices' Investigation Bureau.
              The Prime Minister appoints the head of the unit who
              reports directly to him. The Auditor-General does not
              perform forensic audits, unless there appears to be
              irregularities.


              The prescription period in Singapore is six years. The
              Office of the Public Service Commission pursues claims
              for the recovery of money owed to the government. This
              Office, supplemented by tough punitive measures taken
              against those found guilty, led to a high success rate in
              fighting corruption.


     2. Recommendations


          The Committee recommends that:


          (a) It investigate the prescription legislation in Singapore.


          (b) It conduct further dialogue with the public accounts
              committee of Singapore to clarify certain points.


 C.     Conference in Canberra, Australia - introduction


     The Conference was attended by all members of the Australasian
     Council of Public Accounts Committees (ACPAC), namely public
     accounts committees and Auditors-General of the Federal States of
     Australia, Fidji and New Zealand, and observers from the Canadian
     council of public accounts, the Committee, Executive members of
     the SA Association of Public Accounts Committees (APAC) and
     Auditors-General from Hong Kong and South Africa.


     Presentations were made on the following themes:


     * Accrual Accounting


     * Transparency, including commercial confidentiality


     * Outsourcing risk: Risk management in new contestable environment


     * Retention of corporate memory and skills in public service


     * Public interest in new contestable environment


     * The impact of devolution


     * Measuring performance in the public sector


     Major findings from above-mentioned themes


     1. There is general movement among ACPAC members from cash
          accounting to accrual accounting, and New Zealand seems to be
          at the forefront.


     2. Most countries are outsourcing their service activities.


     3. Loss of corporate memory (skills, experience and knowledge) by
          the public sector is a major problem experienced in the
          process of outsourcing government activities.


     4. Outsourcing by the public sector has created confusion and
          responsibility, accountability was clouded, and some delegates
          were concerned at the long-term liability.


     5. There was general consensus that efficiency and productivity in
          the public sector are no longer the only criteria measuring
          performance, but that outcomes are more important - efficiency
          and productivity are useless unless outcomes are good.


     6. Continuous problems are being experienced by governments trying
          to balance contractual terms with transparency in cases of
          commercial confidence - non-disclosure in the name of
          commercial in-confidence viz-a-viz disclosure for
          transparency.


     7. Measuring performance in the public sector is a very difficult
          task. None of the presenters proposed any satisfactory
          criteria to be used.


     8. There is no clear-cut understanding on what constitutes public
          interest.


 D.     Accrual accounting and its impact on accountability


     The implementation of accrual accounting to replace the cash
     accounting system in many public sectors has seen major
     improvements in accountability in the public sector.


     Presenters argued that accrual accounting is the key to more
     informed decision-making and, therefore, better financial
     management, because it distinguishes between capital and current
     expenditure and facilitates more accurate costing of outputs.


     1. New Zealand experience


          The implementation of accrual accounting in the New Zealand
          central government sector was part of a much wider reform of
          financial management in the public sector. A major reform was
          devolving financial management from central control to the
          control of the departmental chief executive.


          Financial management reforms undertaken by New Zealand
          included the following:


          (a) Changes in the accounting basis, the result of which moved
              responsibilities and accountability from central control
              to the operational level.


          (b) Accrual accounting in New Zealand now shows the full costs
              of programmes and activities, including capital costs and
              budgets.


          (c) A shift in emphasis from controls over inputs to controls
              over outputs.


          During the transitional period by departments from cash to
          accrual, the Treasury performed the following key tasks:


          *   Developed a set of accounting policy parameters within
            which departmental accounting policies were constrained, and
            within which general Accepted Accounting Principles (GAAP)
            was used.


          *   Approving the readiness of departments to move on to the
            new system.


          The presenters emphasised that successful implementation of
          the system could be achieved if:


          *   There is wide support so that the changes are effectively
            adopted.


          *   Off-the-shelf commercial software is used.


          *   Changes in human resource management must be implemented
            where directors are given powers to set remunerations and
            hire and fire as they see fit.


 E.     Transparency (including commercial in-confidence)


     Governments throughout the world have many challenges in the
     future, if they are going to achieve a proper balance between the
     legitimate need for secrecy and the transparency necessary to
     ensure an adequate level of government accountability.


     One of the consequences of the managerial approach to modern
     government is that much of the information that reveals the
     activities of government is now of a commercial nature. As a
     result, access to documents by citizens and their elected
     representatives is being prevented by the increased use of
     commercial confidentiality claims.


     The concern at the conference was that this presents a major
     threat to existing mechanisms for ensuring accountability and
     requires a new focus on the issue of commercial confidentiality
     and its effect on the transparency of government activities.


     The Australian Federal State of Victoria, which presented the
     paper on this theme, raised concerns on the impact of
     confidentiality on an open government. It submitted that there was
     widespread concern about the over-use of confidentiality clauses
     in government contracts and an increasing reliance on claims of
     commercial in-confidence to resist disclosure of information. This
     was applied not only to requests for information by members of the
     public, but also to MPs, parliamentary committees and the Auditor-
     General.


     As an attempt to remedy the situation, the federal public accounts
     committee of Victoria has proposed guidelines, which were
     submitted to the Commonwealth Parliaments for adoption. The report
     contained analyses, different in context, in respect of which
     claims for confidentiality may arise. It particularly singles out
     governmental contracts and the tendering process as those
     requiring attention.


     Some of the proposed guidelines are:


     1. Departments must ensure that third parties are made familiar
          with disclosure requirements before providing sensitive
          information to government agencies.


     2. Parliaments must ensure that there is a general assumption of
          disclosure and restrict the use of confidentiality clause in
          government contracts.


     3. The use of confidentiality clauses should be kept to an
          absolute minimum and contracts should instead contain specific
          terms, stating that they are prima facie public documents.


     4. Parliamentary committees and the Auditor-General must have
          unrestricted powers to access commercially sensitive material
          held by government agencies and third parties, in order to
          perform their duties.


     It was, however, pointed out that a variety of options exist for
     dealing with commercially sensitive material and that, where
     genuine reasons exist, it is possible to take middle ground
     between unrestricted access or total confidentiality.


     It was found that the main opponents to disclosure were state
     departments' heads; private institutions were generally quite
     prepared to allow full release of documents.


 F.     Outsourcing risk: risk management in new contestable environment


     Since the 1980s, governments all over the world have been engaged
     in the process of outsourcing of service delivery functions, which
     have traditionally been the sole purview of the government. For
     many governments, outsourcing is considered an attractive
     alternative to standard in-house government service delivery.


     It was observed that competition has forced outsourcing issues to
     become more prominent. It is used to enhance government service
     delivery by introducing competition to the public sector.


     However, as presenters from Queensland, Australia, stated, poorly
     managed outsourcing arrangements can be fraught with risks and may
     result in adverse outcomes for stakeholders.


     Key points which can help mitigate risk in outsourcing
     arrangements


     Departments/agencies should ensure that:


     1. Their core competencies, strategic goals and deficiencies are
          clearly defined.


     2. Arrangements are planned, not hastily entered into. A formal
          contract should exist which specifies the roles and
          responsibilities of the government department and other
          parties entering into the outsourcing arrangement, and should
          include clear provisions to ensure transparency and
          accountability.


     3. Officers managing outsourcing projects have appropriate skills.


     4. There is regular and effective monitoring and evaluation of
          arrangements.


     5. Probity and accountability requirements are observed at all
          times during the outsourcing cycle - outsourcing activity
          should not in any way reduce the risk management obligations
          on an accounting officer.


     6. Outsourcing is only used in those business areas which are
          conducive to outsourcing and will deliver improved returns.


     7. They address sensitive issues associated with potential job
          losses.


     8. They manage the contract. This phase involves managing
          outsourcing arrangements.


     To try and manage such issues, the Queensland government policy on
     contracting out of government services specifies that there will
     be no contracting out of services currently provided in-house,
     other than in circumstances where:


     (a)     Actual shortages exist in skilled in-house staff.


     (b)     There is a lack of available infrastructure capital or
          funds to meet the cost of providing new technology.


     (c)     It can be clearly demonstrated that it is in the public
          interest that services should be contracted out.


     The general view was that service provision, whether through in-
     house provision or outsourcing, ultimately funded through
     appropriations from Parliament and the government, must remain
     primarily responsible and accountable in evaluating the process of
     outsourcing.


 G.     Retention of corporate memory and skills in public services


     Corporate memory is the collective experience, knowledge and
     creative energy stored in employees. It also includes explicit
     knowledge, which is more tangible as it is gained through formal
     processes, databases and manuals. It is formed through the
     collective business experiences, visions, successes and failures
     of all employees.


     There were concerns that:


     1. The loss of experience and expertise in the public sector has
          the potential to adversely affect the ability of the public
          service to conduct its core business efficiently and
          effectively.


     2. Outsourcing public services can place a limitation on
          information sharing - to preserve their jobs, employees
          sometimes guard the specific business information that they
          possess. It is for this reason that public sectors must engage
          in or encourage information sharing within the institution and
          promote succession planning.


     3. Outsourcing is the major contributing factor in loss of
          corporate memory.


     Positive steps towards retention of corporate memory against
     threats from downsizing and contracting out were proposed. It was
     also recognised that the provision of services is not just about
     realising the lowest price, but also about maximising overall
     value for money for the taxpayer - outcomes and ensuring proper
     accountability for the use of public resources.


     Strategies proposed to counter loss of corporate memory in the
     public sector were:


     (a)     Preservation of records - accurate record-keeping and
          maintenance of files.


     (b)     Move towards information technology (IT).


     (c)     Proper use of human resources.


     (d)     Establishing specific policies and procedures to be
          followed, such as having mechanisms in place to deal with
          staff change and hand-over procedures and using standard
          documents.


     (e)     Knowledge management.


 H.     Public interest in new contestable environment


     The purpose of this theme was to define public interest and see
     how best it could be protected.


     Australian Parliaments (Federal and Commonwealth) have effectively
     adopted a practice of defining the term public interest on a case-
     by-case assessment, rather than trying to be prescriptive.
     Therefore, while the term is widely understood and applied, it is
     not precisely defined.


     Parliament, through its membership, is responsible for protecting
     the best interest of the electorate. Presenters argued that the
     executive government is not beyond parliamentary scrutiny and that
     Parliament has a right to have sufficient information available in
     order to fully determine the public interest and benefit of policy
     implementation.


     However, it is acknowledged that there is no clear-cut
     understanding of what constitutes public interest in all
     circumstances. If members of Parliament are to define the public
     interest, it is probably best undertaken on a case-by-case basis
     rather than within a framework of broad controlling principles.


 I.     Impact of devolution


     The debates on this theme were centred on the impact arising from
     the devolution of responsibilities for the delivery of government
     services under the Commonwealth's Financial Management Act in
     respect of Asset Management.


     Effective strategic asset management remains a challenge for many
     government organisations.


     In Australia, the Financial Management and Accountability Act has
     created a framework for better Commonwealth asset management by
     devolving the responsibility and accountability for managing the
     assets of departments and agencies to their Chief Executive
     Officers.


     It is the Commonwealth government's expectation that, through
     accrual budgeting, managers will actively manage their resourse
     base. Managers will also be required to define outputs and link
     them to outcomes.


     Presenters were convinced that better asset management could not
     only realise substantial financial savings for agencies and the
     Commonwealth, but also improve service quality by using assets,
     which are tailored to their purpose and are well managed.


     Assets management could be improved by:


     1. Formulating general guidelines, with the assistance of the
          Auditor-General.


     2. The creation of bodies like asset management forums, which will
          prevent departments from working in isolation. These forums
          should meet regularly to exchange information on assets
          management issues.


     3. Senior management performance measurement should include a
          reference of how assets under their control are managed
          efficiently and effectively.


 J.     Measuring performance in public sector


     The measurement of outcomes, to the extent that it could be
     practically and effectively achieved, could enhance the
     accountability of the executive government.


     The introduction of the Public Corporations Act (PCA) by the South
     Australian Government in measuring performance as it relates to
     government businesses, was the most significant development in
     assisting performance monitoring.


     The requirement for government businesses (subject to PCA) to
     develop a charter and an annual Performance Statement, that
     includes financial and non-financial performance targets, has led
     to performance measurement constituting an essential component in
     running their businesses. This is a highly debated matter. A paper
     was presented and judging from discussions, no solution was
     reached, because measuring performance in the public sector is a
     very difficult task.


 K.     Next ACPAC Conference


     The South African Association of Public Accounts Committees
     (APAC), of which the Committee is a member, was invited to be
     member of ACPAC.
     The representatives of APAC present indicated that the matter
     would be discussed with their members.


     If APAC joins, they will participate in the next ACPAC Conference,
     to be held in Melbourne in 2003.


 L.     Recommendations


     The Committee recommends as follows:


     1. That it be proposed to the Executive Council of APAC that the
          Committee join ACPAC, if finances are available.


     2. That it consider approaching Parliament for resources to carry
          out research work.


     3. That, if it has researchers, it will be in an improved position
          to do investigative work.


 M.     Conclusion


     The delegation, through formal and informal interaction with other
     MPs at the Conference and with the Deputy Auditor-General in
     Singapore, were exposed to some alternative method of dealing with
     issues relating to financial management in the public sector.


     For that reason, the visit was of great benefit to Committee
     members who have to deal with some of these problems in future.


     It was also interesting to note that members of ACPAC are spending
     considerable time on investigative work. The reason for this was
     that they were well-resourced, with an average of three
     researchers and one professional adviser (in most cases an
     academic).


     We thank the Department of Foreign Affairs and the South African
     High Commission in both Singapore and Australia for ensuring that
     our visit was enjoyable.

                         TUESDAY, 7 MAY 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 (1)    Mr M I Scott has been appointed as chairperson of the Portfolio
     Committee on Home Affairs with effect from 6 May 2002.


 (2)    The following changes have been made to the membership of
     Committees, viz:


     Correctional Services:
      Appointed: Mashimbye, J N; Moeketse, K M(Alt).


     Constitutional Review:


     Appointed: Holomisa, S P.


     Home Affairs:


     Appointed: Chikane, M M (Alt); Scott, M I.


     Members' Interest and Ethics:


     Appointed: Landers, L T.
     Discharged: Ncube, B N.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Home Affairs:

 (1)    Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Electoral
     Commission for 1998-1999, including the Report of the Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements for 1998-1999 [RP 11-2002].


 (2)    Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Electoral
     Commission for 1999-2000, including the Report of the Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements for 1999-2000 [RP 12-2002].


 (3)    Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Electoral
     Commission for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements for 2000-2001 [RP 13-2002].

1. The Minister of Housing:

 Strategic Plan of the Department of Housing for 2002-2004.

COMMITTEE REPORTS: National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on Kyoto Protocol on Climate Change, dated 6 May 2002:

   The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Kyoto Protocol to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Protocol.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Select Committee on Social Services on the Mental Health Care Bill [B 69B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 76), dated 30 April 2002:

   The Select Committee on Social Services, having considered the subject of the Mental Health Care Bill [B 69B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 76), referred to it, reports the Bill with amendments [B 69C - 2001].