National Council of Provinces - 15 November 2001
THURSDAY, 15 NOVEMBER 2001 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:36.
The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the Council I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) takes note of the following paragraph in the 1999 Election Manifesto of the New NP:
The New NP says yes to government where provision is made for
multiparty government representing all communities, and where
responsibility is shared to make South Africa work - where opposition
parties are not relegated to the sterile and negative role of
critics, but are regarded as constructive players in the political
system;
(2) resolves that in a multi-ethnic country like ours, the aforesaid political system is the best form of democracy in terms of which all communities can feel part of the processes by which they are governed, and in which everyone feels welcome to help solve South Africa’s complex problems;
(3) believes that aggressive, fight back, divisive, winner-takes-all politics is not appropriate for South Africa and is, in fact, counterproductive to the interests of voters and minority communities, and will not contribute to the solving of the problems of our country …
[Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Mr Matthee, can you please take your seat? Hon members, we cannot expect other members always to say what we want them to say. We are at times forced to listen even to things that we do not want to hear. [Interjections.] Hon Matthee, please proceed.
Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, I continue:
… and will not contribute to the solving of the problems of our country such as crime, poverty, Aids and unemployment; and
(4) also believes that the participatory model of democracy, which has the quality of being completely responsive to all our citizens, will help to bring back many of our citizens into the mainstream of politics, where they can best contribute to the solution of the great questions that confront us all.
[Interjections.]
Mr J L THERON: Chairperson … [Interjections.]
Bly jy stil as ek praat! [Tussenwerpsels.] [You keep quiet when I speak! [Interjections.]]
Chairperson, I give notice that at the next sitting of the Council I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) notes with concern the decision by the Zimbabwean government to ban 1 000 commercial farmers from working their fields;
(2) further notes that this is in total contravention of the Abuja agreement;
(3) believes the action taken by the Zimbabwean president to be unconstitutional;
(4) expresses concern as to the impact this decision will have on the already half a million food-starved Zimbabweans; and …
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, on a point of order: It is not parliamentary to move motions on behalf of, or against, other governments.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! It is notice of a motion: It does not require our approval. Proceed, hon member.
Mr J L THERON: Chairperson, could you ask that hon member please to stop with his nonsense motions which he is always introducing.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! You are eating into your time, hon member.
Mr J L THERON: Chairperson, I continue:
(5) calls on the South African Government to use its regional powers to ensure that Zimbabwe keeps to its promise of orderly and legal land reform processes and to ensure an end to political violence in order to boost investor confidence.
Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, I give notice that at the next sitting of the Council I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) calls upon the South African Police Service to make it compulsory for police officials to undergo post-traumatic stress counselling if they are exposed to traumatic stress in the line of duty;
(2) notes that currently the medical aid allowance of R1 200 per annum is insufficient to allow police officials to undergo the appropriate counselling; and
(3) further notes the personal tragedies that have occurred as a result of the absence of a proper post-traumatic counselling service.
Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, ek gee kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting sal voorstel:
Dat die Raad -
(1) kennis neem - (a) van die Nuwe Nasionale Party se teleurstelling omdat die soveelste teikendatum vir die goedkeuring van die Suid- Afrikaanse Talewet nie gehaal is nie;
(b) dat die Nuwe Nasionale Party die Wes-Kaapse Taalkomitee
gelukwens met die aanvaarding van die voorgestelde provinsiale
Talewet deur die Wes-Kaapse kabinet; en
(c) dat die Nuwe Nasionale Party alles in sy vermoë sal doen en alle
instrumente tot sy beskikking sal gebruik om druk uit te oefen
en behulpsaam te wees om die proses tot finaliteit te bring;
(2) van mening is dat -
(a) Afrikaans en ander inheemse taalgemeenskappe nie langer in
onsekerheid oor hul taalregte gevange gehou kan en mag word nie;
(b) die Suid-Afrikaanse Parlement en regeringsamptenare se
ongrondwetlike taalbeleid van alles Engels besig is om in te
druis teen wêreldtendense waar veeltaligheid en die erkenning
van kleiner tale al hoe belangriker word; en
(c) die oordrewe gebruik van Engels nie die voortbestaan van Sepedi,
Sesotho, Setswana, siSwati, Tshivenda, Xitsonga, Afrikaans,
isiNdebele, isiXhosa of isiZulu verder mag benadeel nie; en
(3) kennis neem van mnr A E van Niekerk se uitnodiging aan die sprekers van bogenoemde tale saam met hom as taalombudsman ‘n gesprekgroep wat veeltaligheid voorstaan hier in die Parlement te vorm en te help om die Parlement ‘n vertoonvenster van veeltaligheid te maak en daardeur die trots vir die taal van ons voorvaders aan alle Suid-Afrikaners te demonstreer.
[Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) notes -
(a) the New National Party's disappointment because the umpteenth
target date for the adoption of the South African languages Act
was not met;
(b) that the New National Party congratulates the Western Cape
Language Committee on the adoption of the proposed provincial
languages Act by the Western Cape cabinet; and
(c) that the New National Party will do everything in its power and
use all instruments at its disposal to bring pressure to bear
and to be of assistance to bring the process to a conclusion;
(2) is of the opinion that -
(a) Afrikaans and other indigenous linguistic communities can and
may no longer be held hostage in uncertainty about their
language rights;
(b) the SA Parliament and government officials' unconstitutional
language policy of having everything in English flies in the
face of global trends in which multilingualism and the
recognition of smaller languages are becoming increasingly
important; and
(c) the excessive use of English must not further adversely affect
the continued existence of Sepedi, Sesotho, Setswana, Siswati,
Tshivenda, Xitsonga, Afrikaans, isiNdebele, isiXhosa or isiZulu;
and
(3) notes Mr A E van Niekerk’s invitation to the speakers of the aforementioned languages, together with him as language ombudsman, to form a discussion group advocating multilingualism here at Parliament and to assist in making Parliament a showcase of multilingualism, and in so doing to demonstrate to all South Africans pride in the language of our forefathers.
[Interjections.]]
Mr J L THERON: Chairperson, on a point of order.
Hierdie mosie van die agb lid is al oor en oor in hierdie Raad gestel. Kan u asseblief kyk na die inhoud van hierdie mosie om te sien of dit enigsins verskil van sy vorige mosies. [Tussenwerpsels.] [This hon member’s motion has been put to this House on more than one occasion. Could you please look at the content of this motion to see whether it differs somewhat from his previous motions. [Interjections.]]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon members, order! Please do not use the House. This is notice of a motion; it does not require anybody’s approval.
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, kan ek klaarmaak? [Chairperson, may I conclude?]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Complete your motion, hon member. You have half a second.
Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, ek herhaal net: Ek nooi die sprekers van bogenoemde tale om saam met my as taalombudsman ‘n pro- veeltaligheidsgesprekgroep hier in die Parlement te vorm, en te help om hierdie Parlement ‘n vertoonvenster van veeltaligheid te maak, en daardeur die trots vir die taal van ons voorvaders aan alle Suid-Afrikaners te demonstreer, en ek nooi die agb Theron uit om dit by te woon. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I would just like to repeat: I invite the speakers of the aforementioned languages, together with myself as language ombudsman, to form a pro-multilingualism discussion group here at Parliament, and to help make this Parliament a showcase of multilingualism and in so doing demonstrate the pride in the language of our forefathers to all South Africans, and I invite the hon Theron to attend.]
INITIATIVES TO CLEAN UP AND STREAMLINE PUBLIC ENTERPRISES
(Draft Resolution)
Dr E A CONROY: Chairperson, I move without notice: That the Council -
(1) congratulates the Minister of Public Enterprises on the bold step he has taken by initiating a clean-up operation at Transnet, especially in view of the heavy losses suffered by the national airline caused by ill-considered decisions and a lack of corrective action at a level where one would have thought the well-being of our national carrier is of paramount importance; and
(2) assures Minister Radebe of its support in any other similar moves he may make in the process of streamlining and updating the top financial and administrative management capacities of South Africa’s public enterprises.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONGRATULATIONS TO WORLD TRADE ORGANISATION AND TO CHINA ON ITS ENTRY TO THE ORGANISATION
(Draft Resolution) Prince B Z ZULU: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) commends participants at the World Trade Organisation (WTO) forum for being able to reach an agreement despite having clung initially to their entrenched national positions;
(2) congratulates China on its entry into the World Trade Organisation; and
(3) further commends the WTO for the declaration assuring developing countries that access to medicine for combating public health crises will not be undermined by rules protecting rights of intellectual property.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
AIR CRASH IN UNITED STATES
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) notes with concern the latest aviation calamity to strike the United States when an American Airlines passenger jet crashed shortly after take-off;
(2) further notes that most of the 268 passengers who died were citizens of the Dominican Republic who were on their way home to families and friends; and
(3) extends its sincerest sympathies and condolences to the families of the victims of the crash.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
RECRUITMENT OF COUNCILLORS OF PAN SOUTH AFRICAN LANGUAGE BOARD
(Draft Resolution)
Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, ek stel voor sonder kennisgewing:
(1) sy dank uitspreek teenoor die Portefeuljekomitee oor Kuns, Kultuur, Wetenskap en Tegnologie vir die afhandeling van die proses van onderhoude van kandidate vir raadslede van die Pan Suid-Afrikaanse Taalraad; en
(2) die hoop uitspreek dat hierdie aanbeveling die agbare Minister en Kabinet se goedkeuring sal wegdra sodat die Taalraad, wat sedert April 2001 nie ten volle kon funksioneer nie, gou met sy belangrike werk, naamlik om taalregte te beskerm en te bevorder, kan voortgaan. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)
[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) expresses its gratitude towards the Portfolio Committee on Arts, Culture, Science and Technology for concluding the process of interviews of candidates for councillors of the Pan South African Language Board; and
(2) expresses the hope that this recommendation will meet with the approval of the honourable Minister and the Cabinet in order that the Language Board, which has not been able to function fully since April 2001, may soon proceed with its important work, that is protecting and promoting language rights.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
GOOD WISHES FOR RELIGIOUS FESTIVALS
(Draft Resolution)
Ms S N NTLABATI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) wishes the Hindu community a happy Diwali festival and a prosperous new year tomorrow;
(2) wishes Muslims well over the month of Ramadan;
(3) wishes everyone in the Council a merry Christmas and a prosperous new year ÿ.ÿ.ÿ.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, has that motion not been moved? I am being advised that that motion has been moved, by Mr Raju.
Ms S N NTLABATI: … and fourthly …
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I am being advised that a similar motion has been moved already.
Ms S N NTLABATI: Mhlali-ngaphambili, ndicela uxolo kuba andikhange ndimve. [Chairperson, I am sorry, I did not hear him.]
I also wanted to wish those who are not attached to any religion well for the new year.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): No, we will do that tomorrow, hon member. Then you can wish anybody anything.
ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT STUDY REGARDING FLUORIDATION OF WATER
(Draft Resolution)
Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) calls upon the Government to prepare an environmental impact statement on the use and possible build up of fluoride in our water systems, before considering fluoridation for health and dental purposes; and
(2) further calls for a national and regional approach to the enquiry because of higher levels of fluoride that already exist in certain of our water systems.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
STORMS IN ALGERIA
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M A SULLIMAN (for the Chief Whip of the Council): Chairperson, I hereby move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Council the motion printed in his name on the Order Paper, as follows:
That the Council -
(1) notes that the fierce storms that swept Algeria killed at least 343 people, injured more than 300 and left at least 4 000 families homeless; and
(2) expresses its sympathy to the people of Algeria and hopes that the rescue efforts by the emergency personnel are successful in mitigating the effects of the disaster.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MEDIUM-TERM BUDGET POLICY STATEMENT Mrs C NKUNA: Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister, hon special delegates, hon colleagues, on 1 November this year a Joint Budget Committee sat for the first time in our Parliament's history, bringing together members of the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces.
The Joint Budget Committee began its life with a review of the 2001 Medium- Term Budget Policy Statement. In forming the Joint Budget Committee, Parliament has taken a quantum leap in advancing its physical responsibilities and oversight role. The Joint Budget Committee is in agreement with the gist of the 2001 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement. The Joint Budget Committee acknowledges that the 2001 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement is consistent with Government’s policy priority of poverty alleviation.
My participation in the Joint Budget Committee has taught me a lot. Allow me to share this with members. I am directing this also to the Minister of Finance, in absentia, and to his Deputy. In England, the Chancellor, who is the equivalent of our Minister of Finance, presents a fairly detailed budget speech. Benjamin Disraeli delivered the shortest speech, in 45 minutes in 1867, but the longest ever was in 1853, when it took William Gladstone almost five hours to deliver his speech.
Because of its length, the Chancellor may drink alcohol when delivering the budget speech - currently the only occasion on which alcohol is allowed in the Chamber. Members should remember that I am referring to England. Different Chancellors have shown a wide range of tastes in drink to sustain them while giving their budget speeches. For example, Chancellor U Dalton requested milk and rum, Dennis Harley requested brandy and water, and Sir George Hough requested gin and tonic. Perhaps our Minister should submit a special request to the Speaker of the National Assembly before delivering his Budget Speech next year. [Laughter.]
In producing the 2001 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, Government has been mindful of the deterioration in the international economic outlook in recent months. While remaining intensely mindful of our Reconstruction and Development Programme objectives, the proposed medium-term expenditure framework, as indicated in the 2001 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, is a balanced response to social, economic and developmental challenges. Spending on social services is estimated to rise by R5,5 billion and R7,5 billion for the outer years of the medium-term expenditure framework. This allows for substantial real growth over the medium term in all social service functions, including provisions for the Unemployment Insurance Fund.
Welfare spending will increase by 8,7% per annum. Spending on health will increase by 8,2% per annum. Additional spending on the integrated justice sector strengthens the capacity to fight crime. The annual average growth of 7,2% over the medium term for this sector includes the provision for phasing in 6 000 additional personnel in the South African Police Service. This is ammunition to those who will be questioning members about job creation.
Strengthening social service provision over the medium term gives effect to Government’s special focus on poverty alleviation. Social services, namely schools and higher education, primary health care and hospital services, social grants and welfare services, and housing play a key role in improving economic and development opportunities and reducing the physical and economic vulnerability of communities. Additional resources allocated to the social service sector will enable us to do the following. Firstly, it will enable us to increase the number of children benefiting from the child support grant, from 1 500 000 at present to 3 000 000 by the end of the fiscal year 2003. This should not encourage irresponsible fathers to make children hoping that the Government will take care of them.
Secondly, the additional resources will enable the Department of Health to cope with increased health needs and hospital admissions related to emerging communicable diseases such as Aids and malaria.
Thirdly, the additional resources will enable us to expand initiatives to improve the quality of education, through strengthening early childhood programmes and those aimed at learners with special needs.
Social security grants are effective mechanisms against poverty, providing income support to more than 4 000 000 South Africans every month. More specifically, Government has promoted delivery on national electrification programmes as part of the integrated infrastructure development initiatives under the Reconstruction and Development Programme. The electrification programme, which aims at improving access to basic electric services, has surpassed its delivery target, connecting 2 700 000 households in the period 1994 to 1999. Viva the ANC Government, Viva!
In one of the communities around my village there is a place called Mbamba- mencisi, which in Xitsonga means that when it gets dark, one starts looking for matches. But now with the Government’s programme, we have minimised the darkness in the villages, and that is why we are saying congratulations.
The next three-year programme will focus on connecting households in rural areas. Already rural households are connected; only a few are left. The Minister of Finance calls this whole process, a huge ship, and he says it is difficult to turn this huge ship. [Time Expired.] [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon Taabe, before I proceed, would you apologise to the House for disregarding the Rules of the NCOP?
Mr T B TAABE: Chairperson, my sincerest apologies.
Dr E A CONROY: Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister and colleagues, when one is on a long journey, wise people will advise that halfway along the planned route one should stop for a moment to look back and reflect on how one has done so far, and to calculate whether one’s resources have been applied judiciously up to that point, to reflect whether one has sufficient resources left to complete the journey and how the remaining challenges should be met, and only then to proceed on one’s journey.
Dit was vir my ‘n aangename voorreg om ‘n lid van dié parlement se eerste gesamentlike begrotingskomitee te wees wat in die lewe geroep is om ‘n integrale rol te speel in die skakeling tussen die uitvoerende gesag en die wetgewer in die aanloop tot die begroting vir volgende jaar. Ek het beslis, en ek is seker dat ek namens al my kollegas praat as ek dit sê, met dieper insig aan die anderkant uitgekom.
Die onderliggende tema en breë beleidsvoorkeure in die samestelling van die huidige en bestedingsraamwerk vir die medium termyn, is die vermindering van armoede ten einde ongelykhede en die daarmee gepaardgaande kwesbaarheid, te verlig.
Slegs die tyd sal leer of ons daarin kon slaag om dié beleidsdoelwit te bereik. In dié stadium wil dit voorkom asof die uitbreidingsgerigte aard van die begroting en die voorneme om geld beskikbaar te stel wat die sosiale probleme van die minder gegoede en armer deel van ons bevolking sal aanpak, terwyl dit ekonomiese groei en werkskepping oor die medium- tot lang termyn stimuleer, die regte prioriteitsrigting is om in te slaan.
Die feit dat die minister aangedui het dat hy nie van die gestelde inflasiedoelwit van 3% tot 6% gaan afwyk nie, is ‘n belangrike en lofwaardige aspek van die beleidsverklaring vir die medium termyn, en dít in ‘n tyd waarin die gedepresieerde rand ingevoerde kapitaalgoedere al duurder maak en Suid-Afrika se mededingende voordeel in die uitvoermark nadelig beïnvloed word. Ons hou saam met die minister asem op om te sien of sy voorspelling bewaarheid word.
Die herstrukturering van die Suid-Afrikaanse Inkomstediens tesame met ander hervormings, is daarvoor verantwoordelik dat groter inkomste teen ‘n laer belastingkoers ingesamel kon word. Dit het daartoe gelei dat die fiskale posisie verbeter het en dat daar moontlikhede vir verdere belastingverligting vir die middel- en laer inkomstegroepe in die vooruitsig is.
Ek wil kortliks verwys na ander lofwaardige prioriteite wat, ter onderskraging van die reeds genoemde voorkeur aan die verligting van armoede, in die beleidsverslag na vore tree.
Eerstens, ‘n deurlopende beklemtoning van beleggings in en die onderhoud en rehabilitasie van infrastruktuur wat sal bydra tot die land se vermoë om werk te skep en die ekonomiese groeivooruitsigte te versterk.
Tweedens, die baie belangrike punt van die versterking van programme wat die impak van die MIV/Vigs-epidemie aanpak.
Derdens, die herbouing van plaaslike bestuur en die nakoming van ondernemings wat die lewering van gratis basiese dienste sal verseker.
Vierdens, die versterking van kapasiteit in die sektor vir veiligheid en sekuriteit om misdaad te voorkom en te bestry.
Vyfdens, die herstrukturering van instellings soos die Werkloosheidsversekeringsfonds en die Poskantoor om hulle in staat te stel om dienslewering te verbeter.
Laastens, die deurlopende versterking van die administratiewe kapasiteit van die belastingowerhede en die skep van ‘n finansiële intelligensiesentrum om met die wêreldwye bestryding van geldwassery te help.
Die NNP kan hom met die mediumtermynbeleidsverslag vereenselwig.
Ek maak graag van die geleentheid gebruik om die Minister van Finansies, die adjunkminister en hul personeel geluk te wens met ‘n uitstekende, deursigtige en gebruikersvriendelike dokument. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[It was a pleasant privilege for me to be a member of this Parliament’s first joint budget committee which was called into existence to play an integral role in the liaison between the executive authority and the legislature in the run-up to the budget for next year. I certainly, and I am sure that I speak on behalf of all my colleagues when I say this, came out on the other side with greater insight.
The underlying theme and broad policy priority in the composition of the current and spending framework for the medium term is the reduction of poverty in order to reduce inequalities and the vulnerability associated with them.
Only time will tell whether we were able to succeed in this policy objective. At this stage it would appear that the extension-orientated nature of the budget and the intention to make money available which will address the social problems of the less well-off and poorer sector of our population, while stimulating economic growth and job creation in the medium to long term, is the correct priority direction to take.
The fact that the Minister indicated that he is not going to deviate from the stated inflation objective of 3% to 6% is an important and praiseworthy aspect of the policy statement for the medium term, and that at a time in which the depreciated rand is making imported capital goods even more expensive and South Africa’s competitive advantage in the export market is being negatively affected. Together with the Minister we are holding our breath to see whether his prediction will come true.
The restructuring of the South African Revenue Service, together with other reforms, is responsible for the fact that greater revenue could be collected at a lower tax rate. This has led to the fiscal position improving and the possibility for further tax relief for the middle and lower-income groups in future.
I want to refer briefly to other praiseworthy priorities which, in support of the already mentioned priority of the reduction of poverty, emerge in the policy report.
Firstly, a consistent emphasis on investments in and the maintenance and rehabilitation of infrastructure which will contribute to the country’s ability to create jobs and strengthen the economic growth prospects.
Secondly, the very important point about the strengthening of programmes which will tackle the impact of the HIV/Aids epidemic.
Thirdly, the rebuilding of local government and the meeting of undertakings which will ensure the delivery of free basic services.
Fourthly, the reinforcement of capacity in the sector of safety and security, to prevent and combat crime.
Fifthly, the restructuring of institutions like the Unemployment Insurance Fund and the Post Office to enable them to improve service delivery.
Finally, the continuous reinforcement of the administrative capacity of the tax authority and the creation of a financial intelligence centre to assist in the worldwide combating of money-laundering.
The NNP can identify itself with the medium-term policy statement.
I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Minister of Finance, the Deputy Minister and their staff on an outstanding, transparent and user-friendly document. [Applause.]]
Ms B THOMSON: Chairperson, Deputy Minister, special delegates and hon members, we congratulate the Minister of Finance and the officials of the National Treasury for the excellent format of the 2001 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement.
The Joint Budget Committee is pleased that the MTBPS process continues with an emphasis on investment and infrastructural growth. It also differentiates between maintenance of existing infrastructure and investment in new infrastructure. Expansion of infrastructure could only create new employment prospects, thereby facilitating medium- to long-term economic growth.
The Poverty Relief Fund provides further benefit for projects aimed at alleviating the plight of the poor. Funding of R1,5 billion is available for projects that redress water resourcing, waste management, creating of infrastructure and protection of water resources. Infrastructure projects that are under way include crèches, community facilities, access roads and water supply.
With regard to the building of schools, there has been a lack of investment in maintenance, and a large number of schools still require additional repairs. The national Department of Education has established a directorate for physical planning in order to look into the spending rates of various provinces. The department will also establish means of ensuring increases in capital investment.
It must be borne in mind that education and training are long-term investments which lay the foundation for an improved quality of life through increased skills and capabilities, thereby producing a positive externality. Externality occurs when the benefits of infrastructure investment spill over to a wider population.
However, with the inheritance of infrastructure backlogs especially prevalent in housing, health and education, it is commendable that Government has undertaken to increase spending on infrastructure.
In the years ahead, several investment projects such as water projects linked to Skuifraam Dam, road linking the N4 north of Pretoria with Botswana and the gas pipeline from Mozambique to South Africa, to name a few, will get under way. These investments in infrastrucural projects will boost real public sector investment growth beyond the budgetary projection of 8,8% per year and extend infrastructure services in support of broader social and economic development.
Delivery of any social sector commodity would simultaneously require a supply of services such as water, electricity, roads and housing. A social sector commodity cannot be provided in isolation. For instance, roads cannot be built leading to nowhere and houses should not be built without roads, water, electricity, and they should be in the proximity of educational institutions.
The crucial element of any integrated strategy is that while co-operation is required within the social sectors, co-ordination amongst the different spheres of government is equally necessary. There has to be both vertical and horizontal co-ordination simultaneously. This is the most daunting task confronting any government in transition and no blueprint exists for such undertaking.
The Joint Budget Committee is, however, concerned about the lack of co- ordination between Government departments, and the committee would, in future, recommend inviting national departments as clusters to its deliberations.
Ngibona ukuthi lokho kuyosiza ukuze omunye umnyango ungakhombi omunye esweni nomunye uvikele iso lawo. [I think this will help so that one department does not point at another with it defending itself.]
With reference to the vertical transfer of funds from national to provincial and local government, Government has adjusted the vertical equity share of the spheres of government to enable the execution of spending priorities in favour of the poor.
A major challenge at provincial level is the provision of social services, that is education, welfare and health. At local government level the challenge is the delivery of free basic services. The formula for the horizontal division of the equitable share has been adjusted to reflect the shifts in spending on social services in provinces.
The weight of the welfare component has been increased by 1% with a balancing reduction in the weight of economic components. The formula has also been updated to take account of the average provincial educational enrolment of the past three years.
The local government equitable share is projected to increase by an average of 13,9% per year over the medium term. The equitable share is distributed to municipalities relative to the number of households in poverty within their jurisdiction. The formula is targeted at households earning less than R1 100 a month, and aims to support the delivery of a basic package of services including water, sanitation, energy and solid waste.
In conclusion, the division of revenue set out in the 2001 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement reflects the growth in national transfers to the provincial and local government spheres. The increase in baseline allocations for the provinces allow for an accelerated infrastructure development programme. In the case of local government, increased allocation will give expression to the provision of free basic services to households and also facilitate a smooth transition of the demarcation process. [Applause.]
Mnr J L THERON: Voorsitter, die titel van my toespraak vanmiddag is The long walk to economic growth and job creation. [Tussenwerpsels.] [Gelag.]
Die Minister van Finansies en die tesourie kan geluk gewens word met die werk wat reeds gedoen is om die Suid-Afrikaanse ekonomie op koers te kry. ‘n Voorbeeld is die begrotingsbeleidsverklaring vir die medium termyn wat ons vandag debatteer. Dit word jaarliks gedoen om groter sekerheid en deursigtigheid te bewerkstellig. ‘n Verdere voorbeeld is die gesamentlike parlementêre begrotingskomitee wat daarop ingestel is om ontledings te doen en bydraes tot die begrotingsproses te lewer. Sekere grondliggende aspekte van die Suid-Afrikaanse ekonomie verg egter nog baie aandag, en daarom my titel The long walk to economic growth and job creation. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr J L THERON: Chairperson, the title of my speech this afternoon is The long walk to economic growth and job creation. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
The Minister of Finance and the treasury should be congratulated on the work already done to get the South African economy on track. An example of this is the budget policy statement for the medium-term which we are debating today. This is done annually to ensure greater certainty and transparency. Another example is the Joint Parliamentary Budget Committee who are focused on doing analysis and making contributions to the budget process. A few fundamental aspects of the South African economy, however, still deserves a lot of attention, and therefore my title The long walk to economic growth and job creation.]
Firstly, I would like to look at the positive economic fundamentals. There are a lot of possible aspects such as the objectives in the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, which we could mention. For instance, everybody would agree on the objectives set out in the MTBPS, namely the reduction of poverty to alleviate the inequality and vulnerability and greater emphasis on investment in infrastructure for economic growth; strengthening programmes that address the impact of the HIV/Aids pandemic; rebuilding local government and meeting commitments to ensure free basic service delivery; strengthening capacity in the safety and security sector to prevent and combat crime; the decision to take a holistic view of the taxation of retirement savings; and, lastly, individuals in line for further tax relief, although we should not forget that individuals are still very highly taxed in South Africa for what they receive in return.
Furthermore, the Minister of Finance and the Deputy Minister have confidence in the South African economy, which is in itself positive. However, in the joint budget committee the following was also mentioned. Firstly, the strong fiscal position provides room for fiscal policy to be used to stimulate growth; secondly, the strong, diversified export sector performing well owing to the very competitive currency; and thirdly, inflation is on a downward trend, meaning that we will not have to hike up interest rates or run up foreign liabilities, such as in 1998.
Ek wil ook die probleemgebiede in die Suid-Afrikaanse ekonomie bespreek. [I would also like to discuss the problem areas in the South African economy.]
If we look at the other side, the long walk side, to balance the picture of the South African economy, the following could be mentioned:
Ek wil eerstens na ekonomiese groei kyk. Groeikoerse van tussen 2,4% en 3,7% per jaar mag realisties wees, gegewe die regering se ekonomiese en sosiale beleid, maar is totaal ontoereikend vir die behoeftes van die miljoene arm en werklose Suid-Afrikaners.
Suid-Afrikaanse en internasionale ekonome is oortuig daarvan dat ons groeikoerse van meer as 6% kan bereik, maar dit blyk dat regeringsbeleid nie hierin kan slaag nie. Soos bekend is die VSA in ‘n resessie. Sowat nege maande later volg die res van die wêrelds se ekonomieë gewoonlik en ons volg dieselfde patroon. Indien die Suid-Afrikaanse groeikoers dus, as gevolg van ‘n wêreldwye resessie nog verder gaan terugsak, gaan dit ernstige ekonomiese en sosiale gevolge vir ons almal inhou.
Die MTBBV toon duidelik die rampspoedige uitwerking van die owerheid se privatiseringsproses wat heeltemal misluk het. Die een geleentheid na die ander gaan verlore om ‘n doeltreffende privatiseringsprogram in te stel.
Die gesloer om Telkom- en M-selaandele te verkoop, beteken die inkomste uit privatisering sal vanjaar 83% minder wees en vir die driejaartydperk 2001 tot 2004, 18% minder. Die uitwerking hiervan is een van die redes waarom die owerheid se leningsbehoeftes vanjaar met 128% tot R21,4 miljard gestyg het.
Die teleurstellings ten opsigte van die SAL en die poskantoor sal beslis die vertroue in die Suid-Afrikaanse ekonomie beïnvloed.
Wat die tweede en derde vlakke van regering betref, lê daar beslis ook nog ‘n lang pad voor. Wetgewing word tans deur die parlement gevoer dat provinsies belastings kan hef. Baie werk sal egter nog nodig wees voor enige sukses behaal sal word.
Die Minister van Finansies het self in die begrotingskomitee gesê baie werk is nog op die derde vlak van regering nodig. Probleme op dié regeringsvlak sluit in die druk op finansies as gevolg van gratis dienste, te hoë vergoeding van raadslede, hoë vlakke van verbruikerskuld as gevolg van die wanbetaling vir dienste en die beperkte vermoë van die nuwe derdevlakowerhede om geld reg te bestee en noodsaaklike dienste kostedoeltreffend te lewer.
Uit bogenoemde is dit duidelik dat die derde vlak van regering nog baie geld van nasionale en provinsiale vlak sal nodig hê vir noodsaaklike dienslewering op grondvlak.
Ek wil afsluit. Uit dié prentjie van die begrotingsbeleidsverklaring vir die medium termyn blyk die baie positiewe aspekte waarmee die minister, adjunkminister en departement gelukgewens kan word. Aan die ander kant is dit ook baie duidelik dat daar nog talle ernstige ekonomiese probleme is wat aangepak moet word. Daar lê dus nog ‘n lang pad voor vir hoër ekonomiese groei en groter werkskepping vir die ekonomiese en sosiale welvaart van Suid-Afrika. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Firstly, I would like to look at economic growth. Growth rates of between 2,4% and 3,7% per annum might be realistic, given the government’s economic and social policy, but is totally inadequate for the needs of the millions of poor and jobless South Africans.
South African and international economists are convinced of the fact that growth rates of more than 6% can be achieved, but is seems that government policy cannot succeed in doing this. We all know that the USA is in a recession. Usually approximately nine months later the rest of the world’s economies will follow and we follow the same pattern. Therefore, if the South African growth rate declines even further as a result of the worldwide recession it will have serious economic and social implications for all of us.
The MTBPS clearly shows the disastrous effects of the government’s privatisation process which has failed hopelessly. The one opportunity after the other is being lost to implement an effective privatisation programme.
The delay in selling Telkom and M-cell shares means the income from privatisation will be 83% less this year and 18% less for the three year term 2001 to 2004. The effect of this is one of the reasons why the government’s loan capacity this year has risen with 128% to R21,4 billion. The disappointments with regard to SAA and the Post Office will definitely influence the confidence in the South African economy.
With regard to the second and third levels of government, a very long road still lies ahead. Legislation is currently being passed by Parliament that provinces may raise their own taxes. However, a lot of work is still needed before any success can be achieved.
The Minister of Finance said in the budget committee that a lot of work is still necessary on the third level of government. Problems at this level of government includes the pressure on finances as a result of free services, the high remuneration of councillors, high levels of consumer debt as a result of the nonpayment of services and the limited capacity of the new third level authorities to spend money properly and to deliver essential services cost effectively.
From the abovementioned it is clear that the third level of government still needs a lot of money from national and provincial level for essential service provision at grassroots level. I wish to conclude. From this picture of the budget policy statement for the medium term it seems there are many positive aspects for which the Minister, Deputy Minister and department could be congratulated. On the other hand, however, it is also very clear that there are still many serious economic problems which should be tackled. A long road therefore still lies ahead for higher economic growth and greater job creation for the economic and social wellbeing of South Africa. [Applause.]]
Mr B J TOLO: Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister and the House at large, we want to thank you, Chairperson, for affording us the opportunity to participate in this very important debate, a Debate on the Medium Term Budget Policy Statement of Government.
It is important in that it gives us an opportunity to scrutinise or even to advise Government on the spending patterns in the medium term. The ticket on which the ANC Government was elected was that of bettering the lives of our people. Whatever the Government does in the short term, in the medium term and even in the long term is informed by this commitment.
It is no mistake therefore, that Government identified the eradication of poverty as its priority and that that priority can be alleviated through comprehensive programmes involving social services. It is therefore fitting that, in the medium term, Government will spend 58% of its entire Budget annually on social services.
As we all know, the greater part of social services’ function is a competency of provincial governments. This money is mainly transferred to the provinces as part of their equitable share, and more than 80% of these provincial equitable shares are spent on education, health, welfare and housing. The function of the national Government in this regard is to formulate relevant policies and to monitor adherence to these policies by the provincial governments as indicated in the MTEF.
The departments responsible for social services will receive a sizeable increase in their budget in the next three years to enable them to live up to their challenges in improving the quality of life of our people. I want to skim over the activities of these departments to give a bird’s eye view of what challenges each department faces and how each one of them will use the added budget to address these problems in the medium term.
With regard to education, developed countries and those who are on the developmental path know the eternal truth, which is that the best long-term investment that a country can make is an investment in human brains. To illustrate this, I want to use Japan as an example.
Japan, as hon members know, is a small country with no mineral resources. After the Second World War in the 1960s this country was poor and it produced products of very low quality, to such an extent that if anybody had anything perceived to be of low quality, it used to be referred to as ``Japan’’.
Today it is one of the strongest economies in the world because it took the right decision, that is to invest in the grey matter between people’s ears. To further illustrate what we are saying, I will relate a small episode. There is a country in this world - there is no need to make mention of its name because I like it very much - which produces very big and massive trucks. Japan imports lots and lots of these trucks. But when politicians from this country went to Japan, they could not see a single one of these trucks on the roads.
They wondered what the Japanese were doing with these trucks, and they launched an investigation. They discovered that when these trucks arrive in Japan, after removing the wheels, the Japanese throw the whole truck in a furnace so as to produce steel in order to make their own cars.
I am saying that Japan is so developed that it sees raw materials in other countries’ finished goods. [Laughter.] We are saying therefore that it is for that reasons that in South Africa we have to - and we have done so - put the lion’s share of social services’ funds into education.
The additional funds for education in the MTEF will go a long way in improving the quality of education in our country, be it in the form of additional classrooms, provision of sanitation, electricity, learning material, early childhood development, etc.
Let us look at health. Many, many years ago when I was in Form 1, I came across a book which I loved very much, called A Student’s Companion. I memorised one idiom from A Student’s Companion which I still love even today, which says: mens sana in corpore sano - a healthy mind in a healthy body. [Interjections.] Government has a responsibility to see to it that we have a healthy nation. That is why health services is an important and integral part of social services, and has been identified by Government as a priority. This is necessitated by the fact that the greater majority of our people do not belong to medical schemes and they rely on public health services.
The additional funds that this sector will get in the MTEF will address the ever-increasing demands of the health services. This problem is compounded by the fact that in recent years more people were admitted to hospitals due to communicable diseases such as HIV, tuberculosis, malaria, etc, as the Minister of Finance stated in his MTBPS.
Regarding social services, we said earlier that the ultimate answer in eradicating poverty and banishing hunger, disease and ignorance is through educating and skilling the nation. But we cannot, in the meantime, fold our arms and wait for the positive outputs of our investment in education. In the meantime, the Government has put in place poverty relief programmes that put to shame even some of the countries that are relatively more developed than we are. We can therefore, as a country, pat ourselves on the back for being a caring nation.
Over and above the programmes that we have referred to, through other departments, Government has put in place an integrated strategy that deals with the whole question of HIV/Aids. The strategy focuses on giving care and support for children and youth affected by this disease by implementing life-skills programmes in schools, voluntary testing and counselling of victims and home-based care. All these welfare programmes are responsible for the rising welfare spending of about 8,7% in the medium term. [Interjections.]
With the relaxation of influx control laws and the advent of democracy in 1994, we saw the exodus of people from rural areas to towns and cities. This resulted in the mushrooming of many more informal settlements around our towns and cities. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr J P GELDERBLOM: Chairperson, I am grateful for the opportunity to participate in the debate on the 2001 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement. In the first instance, it would be appropriate to congratulate the National Treasury on its ongoing efforts to enhance transparency, accountability and political oversight of the Budget process.
Although the general direction of the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement can be supported, allow me to use this opportunity to single out an area of concern. I am referring to the question of funding of tertiary services and training - conditional grants for central hospitals, training and research grants - in the health sector, discussed on pages 79, 80 and 81 of the policy statement, and, in particular, the redistribution of funds from the Western Cape and Gauteng provinces.
It is not my intention to debate the principle of redistribution, but rather the inadequate time allowed for adjusting to the lower levels of funding within which the central hospital will need to deliver its services. The policy statement provides that it be phased in over five years. I have been given to understand that this is a compromise solution between the original National Treasury stance and that which is advocated by the Minister of Health who is asking for a period of three years. The danger of short phase-in periods is that an inequitable situation might arise due to the overall lowering of the availability of health services, as such services will not necessarily follow the shifting of funds. Combined with substantial spending pressures or liabilities resulting from the rapid take-up rate for the child support grant and other national initiatives, and given the fact that there is no clear indication at what level and time the former will stabilise, a more realistic phase-in period for affected provinces would be at least eight years.
To mention but a few, the adjustment to lower levels of funding will require another remix of resources to deliver services at all health levels, causing instability within the system if not properly managed; an attempt at attaining the appropriate human resource skills mix at tertiary and other institutions, which once again will be hampered by the hiring, firing and redeployment of resources through mechanisms currently operating in the Public Service; revision of infrastructure provision through adaptation; greater urgency on the roll out of management information systems; adequate provisioning of equipment; institutional re-engineering; building capacity in receiving institutions; and redirection of budgets. What is our greater concern is the required management of the human resources in the absence of a labour agreed upon, affordable and flexible tool. To date, I have not had the pleasure of seeing such a tool, although personnel expenditure is estimated to represent 43,8% of consolidated national and provincial expenditure, as stated on page 72 of the policy statement.
Moving beyond the policy statement another issue that needs to be raised is the development of adequate performance indicators to enable us as a country to intelligently and objectively assess how well we are really doing compared to our competitors in the critical field of education and training, technology development and application, physical infrastructure and maintenance, health services and reducing inequality.
It seems to me that we have many nice-sounding policy statements which one can fully support, but with very little feedback to Parliament on the degree of success of their implementation and the attainment of the different goals set in such policy statements. [Applause.]
Mr T RALANE: Chairperson, Deputy Minister, special delegates and hon members, I endorse the views of my colleagues and friends that the 2001 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement is well presented and very comprehensive. Moreover, the statement before this House demystifies finance, thereby making key financial concepts and terminology easily accessible to the man in the street who is assumed to be uninitiated in financial matters.
Before I continue, I want to explain why finance is so intimidating.
A mathematician, an accountant and an economist apply for the same job. The
interviewer calls in the mathematician and asks, What does two plus two
equal?''. The mathematician replies, Four.’’ The interviewer asks,
Four, exactly?'' The mathematician looks at the interviewer incredulously
and says,Yes, four exactly.’’
Then the interviewer calls in the accountant and asks the same question. The accountant says, ``On average, four, give or take 10%, but on average, four.’’
Then the interviewer calls the economist and poses the same question. The economist gets up, locks the door, closes the shades, sits down next to the interviewer and says, ``What do you want it to equal?’’ [Laughter.]
On a more serious note, the MTBPS is progressive and continues with the objectives of our new democracy. Its progressive tendency is reflected in our tax policy and morale. Since 1994 Government has brought the company tax rate down from 40% to 30%. The personal tax rate structure has also been revised each year, bringing substantial relief to all taxpayers, and particularly to lower-and middle-income taxpayers.
The 2001 Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement tells us that the 2002 Budget will again bring tax relief to individuals in the lower-and middle-income brackets. More importantly, we can expect in the next Budget a narrowing of the gap between the top marginal income tax rate and the company tax rate.
The 2001 MTBPS indicates that over the next year, Government will undertake a holistic review of the taxation of retirement savings, as committed to Parliament during the deliberations on the 2001 Budget. In developing a tax regime for retirement savings, Government will be guided by the following principles, firstly, encouraging savings; secondly, facilitating post retirement income security; thirdly, equity in the overall distribution of Government resources allocated for retirement provision, including the old age grant and tax expenditures for retirement savings, fourthly, efficiency and neutrality in the allocation of the nation’s savings, fifthly, controlling tax avoidance opportunities; and, lastly, revenue stability and accountability for the provision of tax expenditures.
The redistributive or welfare role of the central fiscus is best observed by the tax exempt status awarded to public benefit organisations which play a decisive role in promoting democracy, fighting poverty and delivering vital social services to the people of South Africa. The tax exempt status of public benefit organisations allow taxpayers to make tax deductible donations. Government released a list of public benefit activities that an organisation could engage in to be awarded the tax exempt status.
We are pleased to learn from the 2001 MTBPS that Government will continue to engage stakeholders to identify additional public benefit activities that should benefit from the tax privileges. We commend the National Treasury for leading the fight against poverty.
The Budget committee acknowledges that our tax system has experienced substantial structural changes over the past few years. These changes include the following, firstly, broadening the tax base; secondly, strengthening the overall revenue system; thirdly, entrenchment of the principle of equity to enhance taxpayer morale; and, fourthly, administrative reforms to ensure a stable tax revenue base.
With these few comments the Budget committee congratulates the National Treasury on a job well done. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! I welcome the hon the Deputy Minister of Finance into the Chamber. I am not sure whether he is a mathematician, an accountant or an economist. [Laughter.] I call upon him to address the House. The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, I am definitely not an accountant. [Laughter.]
Once again I would like to thank members of the House for their participation in this debate and for their enthusiastic support for the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement. I must say that we really see this as part of the comprehensive reform of our budgeting system that has been unfolding in the country. The advent of the budget committee is yet another step in that unfolding reform of our budgeting system.
At the end of the day this must be about enhancing the political oversight of Parliament over what we do in the executive and in particular how we deal with matters of how we allocate the nation’s resources and for the purposes we allocate them. An important point in that regard is that there is a series of documents that we table in Parliament, and at the end of the day it is going to be the ability to utilise those documents in a manner that enables Parliament to give guidance in terms of areas that need attention regarding how we allocate the resources of the nation which will determine our success.
We tabled the Estimates of National Expenditure in which each department outlines its policy priorities and programmes for the next three years. It must be against that background that we should be able to evaluate the annual budgets that departments get.
We also tabled the Intergovernmental Fiscal Review which looks at the past three years to see how we have allocated our resources and the impact of that in the different areas.
The Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, against what is contained in the Intergovernmental Fiscal Review, should also enable members of Parliament, when looking at the past three years, as we do in the Intergovernmental Fiscal Review, to identify and factor that in as we engage with the Medium- Term Budget Policy Statement.
Generally, it is quite clear that with the challenges that are facing the country, and with the policy priorities that we have identified that we have to effect shifts that will see, over the medium term, more resources going towards provinces and local government, and if we take this together with the fact that part of the focus in the coming year is going to be on fighting poverty and vulnerability it is therefore relevant to us to be allocating more resources towards provinces and local government because one of the most effective weapons that are available to us to fight poverty and vulnerability is through our system of social grants. This, in a way, is a unique instrument that is available to us which is not widely available in countries that are comparable to us.
It is our way of protecting the weak members of our society, and this is one of the areas that we need to strengthen as we seek to fight poverty and vulnerability. There is also the fact that provinces have got to focus more on issues of rehabilitation and construction of new infrastructure.
Local authorities, and the extension of services to areas that have not been covered before to provide the free basic services all require us to ensure that we support those particular processes with increased resources towards provinces and local government.
Of course, there are particular challenges in local government. In a way, I think the challenges that are facing local government are really about some of the basic building blocks so that the local authorities are able to deliver basic services efficiently; they are able to bill people properly for services that they receive and they are able to collect the revenue that is due to them, because this is biggest source of funding for local authorities, as opposed to the provinces, where the greater portion of the funding comes from the equitable share.
I just want to pick up on a few of the points that were raised by hon members. I want to tell the hon Nkuna it is indeed a huge ship, which is difficult to turn around, but I think that when we look at the past period, we can say with confidence that we are succeeding in ensuring that at all these levels at which we operate, and at which our system of democratic government operates - national, provincial and local - we are succeeding in ensuring that we are all moving in step with each other.
One of the important issues about this budget policy statement is that all of the Governments at national, province and local level will be preparing their budgets for 2002 based on the policy priorities that we have identified, and these policy priorities are not sucked out of our thumbs on our part, but they are based on a widely consultative process at all levels
- at national, with the provinces and with local government. So all of us will be addressing common priorities. I think it is important, as we turn this ship around, also to make sure that all of its parts are basically moving in the same direction.
Instead of starting with those raised by the hon Conroy, perhaps I should start with the points raised by the hon Theron. Indeed, it is a long walk to economic freedom, economic growth, and economic development. I think the important thing is that, and this is part of what we have learned over the past few years, success comes with consistency, persistence and sometimes we also need to be bold in tackling the things that need to be done. I think that that lesson from what we have done so far should really sustain us as we seek to challenge the greatest achievement of the past five years or so, which has been the stabilising of our economy at the macro level.
The challenge that faces us now is those microeconomic reforms that will make our economy function and that will enable the economy to create jobs and enable people to establish enterprises and economic activities that will enable them to generate income for themselves. This is what microeconomic reform is all about - it is about getting the economy to function.
The persistence and the consistency that has served us well over the past five years should also see us exercising the same kind of consistency as we seek to challenge some of those micro-economic reforms. Part of the confidence that we have in our economy arises from some of those achievements of the past - a strong fiscal position and an export sector that is growing and that is diverse. This is quite different from the South Africa that depended largely on the export of raw commodities, where we mined gold and exported it.
A more diverse export basket is one of the important achievements of the past seven years. I wish to tell the hon Conroy that the issue about our exchange rate and depreciation is that there are potential negatives. There is the potential to import inflation, because some of things that we import are used as inputs into goods that we produce for export purposes, and so on.
There is that potential, but I think that the positive side is that it has indeed seen very substantial growth in the exports of South Africa. In the first six months of this year we have enjoyed a 10% growth in our exports, and a 50% growth in our exports to the European Union. That is partly the result of the depreciation of our exchange rate. So, we must not always see the negative side of the depreciation of our currency.
Indeed, we have to invest in our future. Investment in our future must be about investing in the human training, as the hon Tolo said. It is the best thing we can do to address a host of challenges. A skills shortage is one of the structural weaknesses of the South African economy and what it means is that we must use all avenues and opportunities to train and train our people, and so our basic schooling system must function better, and the Setas that we are establishing must function better. We must use all opportunities and we must address some of the patterns which are historical to our country in terms of access to education, particularly tertiary education, and access to some of the highly specialised areas of knowledge.
I was talking to Prof Njabulo Ndebele yesterday and I was quite encouraged when he told me about some of the trends that are beginning to manifest themselves at the University of Cape Town, because they are addressing exactly those issues of access to tertiary education, but also of access to some of the key specialised areas of knowledge.
On the issue of tertiary services and the funding thereof raised by the hon Gelderblom, this is a challenge that we have to continue to grapple with, because the reality is that whilst most of our tertiary hospital services are concentrated in the Western Cape and Gauteng, one finds that other provinces do have tertiary services as well which we have not supported adequately. It is an imbalance which we continue to grapple with in order to bring about a correction. As we do that, of course, we must do it in such a way that it does not impact negatively on some of our most important tertiary health facilities. It is really a matter of balancing, and hence the talk about phasing in whatever we need to do in that particular regard.
I think perhaps I should end, on this note, and that is that I will convey the choice that is available to the Minister of Finance for his Budget Speech next year. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): I am sure the Minister would like rum and milk. [Laughter.]
Debate concluded.
ADJUSTMENTS APPROPRIATION BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I was initially informed that Mr Lucas would make a speech. But I have since been informed that he will not be making one, which means, therefore, that there is no speaker’s list.
Votes Nos 1 to 13 agreed to.
Vote No 14 agreed to.
Vote No 15 agreed to.
Vote No 16 agreed to. Vote No 17 agreed to.
Votes Nos 18 to 20 agreed to.
Votes Nos 22 to 24 agreed to.
Vote No 25 agreed to.
Votes Nos 26 to 33 agreed to.
Schedule agreed to.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
REVENUE LAWS SECOND AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
Mr H T SOGONI: Chairperson, Deputy Minister of Finance, special delegates, hon members, I represent the Chairperson and members of the Select Committee on Finance. I would like to make the following statement and also to urge hon members to support the Revenue Laws Second Amendment Bill. Before doing so, allow me to convey a sincere word of gratitude to the hon the Minister of Finance and his department for patiently and expertly taking us through the briefing sessions on this comprehensive and technical but very important legislation. With the help of the Ministry of Finance, the select committee managed to reduce a Bill of 132 pages into this brief statement, which, however, still make sense of what the legislation contains in broad outline.
The committee further expresses sincere appreciation of the valuable input also made by various stakeholders in their submissions during the in-depth yet constructive and objective interrogation to which the Bill was subjected. The Bill introduces amendments to most of the revenue laws administered by the Commissioner for the SA Revenue Service. These amendments can be divided into several broad categories.
Sars has embarked on a process of restructuring its operations to improve collections and client service. This will fundamentally change the way in which Sars does business, and as a result various references in the revenue laws such as ``Receiver of Revenue’’ have become obsolete. These provisions are updated to accommodate Sars’s new structure.
On dispute resolution, the existing objection and appeal procedures are replaced by more streamlined procedures. The provisions of the Income Tax Act of 1962 are amended to enable the setting of rules that will deal with the dispute resolution process from objection to the final procedures to be followed in the tax court. These procedures will apply in respect of all the Acts administered by the commissioner, other than the Customs and Excise Act of 1964. However, the Bill also amends this Act to introduce new internal dispute resolution procedures.
A recent court decision held that a manufacturer of motor vehicles could dispose of motor vehicles manufactured for and used by employees on the basis that these motor vehicles were not trading stock and therefore not taxable. Accordingly, the Bill provides for an amendment to ensure that the proceeds of the disposal of all assets similar to those assets manufactured for resale are included in gross income.
Another court decision held that it is possible to dispose of mineral rights without triggering a recoupment of capital allowances in respect of the associated capital assets. The recoupment provisions are amended to address this deficiency and to pre-empt disputes in closely related cases.
With the introduction of the residence basis of taxation with effect from the beginning of this year, 2001, the concept of a controlled foreign entity or CFE has become more important in South Africa’s income tax system. In short, a CFE is a foreign company or similar entity that is controlled by South African residents. The income of that company may be attributed to the residents under certain circumstances to prevent tax avoidance.
A number of amendments are proposed, the most important of which is the participation exemption in respect of the disposal of one CFE by another CFE. This means that where a CFE holds more than a 25% interest in a second CFE, a dividend from or capital gain or disposal of the second CFE will be exempted from tax. This will clear the way for South African groups to restructure their foreign operations and to expand them. As part of the work done in respect of foreign currency and capital gains tax, the ordinary income tax provisions in respect of foreign currency gains or losses have been revisited. The Bill integrates the ordinary income tax provisions more closely with the capital gains tax provisions. One important change to the capital gains tax provisions is that foreign currency gains on the disposal of foreign currency equity instruments are now subject to tax.
This ensures that an artificial incentive is not created to invest in offshore equities to the detriment of domestic equities. There are existing measures for certain forms of corporate restructuring, which permit a group of companies to restructure their operations to improve business efficiency free of tax. These measures are deficient in certain respects, amongst which is the fact that they do not cater for capital gains tax. The Bill corrects this situation by repealing these measures and inserting new ones to permit tax-free restructuring by domestic companies, as long as the shareholders continue to have a substantial interest in the assets transferred.
Unfortunately, international experience has shown that these measures are often abused to avoid tax. So a number of anti-avoidance rules have had to be included. In order to simplify matters, though, many of these rules fall away after a period of 18 months. A number of amendments have been made to correct textual errors, close minor loopholes and provide greater certainty. The Bill introduces amendments to enhance control over goods in state warehouses and over goods that enter or transit through the Republic. Goods that have been imported in contravention of law may also be sold, destroyed or distributed to indigent persons or victims of natural disasters under certain circumstances.
Following a court decision that an expropriation is not a supply for Vat purposes, the Act is amended to ensure a Vat vendor treats an expropriation as a supply for VAT purposes. The definition of a welfare organisation is also brought into line with the public benefit organisation, as introduced in the Income Tax Act of 1962. Other amendments are also made to improve record keeping, encourage e-filing of Vat returns and to enhance the administration of Vat by customs.
In conclusion, these are some of the all-important aspects of the amendments contained in the Bill hereby submitted. Once more, on the behalf of the Select Committee on Finance, I urge the House to support the Bill. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Declaration of vote:
Dr E A CONROY: Mevrou die Voorsitter, in enige huishouding is dit nodig om by tye skoon te maak, om orde te skep, los drade op te tel en bymekaar te bring.
Die Wysigingswetsontwerp op Inkomstewette, 2000, wat ons laat verlede jaar bespreek het, en die aantal wysigings aan die inkomstewette wat vanjaar ter sprake gekom het, het dit nou genoodsaak dat orde met behulp van hierdie Tweede Wysigingswetsontwerp op Inkomstewette geskep word.
Die Nuwe NP steun hierdie wysigingswetsontwerp met die voorbehoud dat ons nié saamstem met die wysigings wat deur die instelling van kapitaalwinsbelasting genoodsaak word nie, aangesien ons beswaar teen die instelling van KWB reeds by ‘n vorige geleentheid geboekstaaf is. Die Nuwe NP is steeds van mening dat KWB ‘n onnodige belasting is waarvan die inkomste nie die administrasiekoste sal regverdig nie, en dat dit ingestel is in ‘n stadium waarop ander lande reeds besig is om dit as ‘n bron van inkomste uit te faseer. (Translation of declaration of vote follows.)
[Dr E A CONROY: Madam Chair, in any household it is necessary, at times, to create order, to pick up loose threads and bring them together.
The Revenue Laws Amendment Bill, 2000, which we debated, late last year, and the number of amendments that have come under discussion this year have now necessitated the creation of order by way of this Revenue Laws Second Amendment Bill.
The New NP supports this Bill with the proviso that we do not agree with the amendments that have been occasioned through the carrying into effect of capital gains tax, because our objection to the introduction of CGT has already been recorded on a previous occasion. The New NP is still of the opinion that CGT is an unnecessary tax of which the revenue will not justify the administrative costs, and that it has been introduced at a time when other countries are already phasing it out as a source of revenue.]
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA SECOND AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, this is the second Constitution amending Bill being dealt with within a short space of time by this House. The first one being, of course, the Constitution amending Bill which was debated on 30 October 2001.
Hon members of this House will recall that on that occasion the Minister referred to this Bill, which deals exclusively with financial matters and which needs to be approved by both this House and the National Assembly, in terms of section 74(3) of the Constitution. The National Treasury has been involved in a process of reviewing national legislation on financial matters. That review has revealed a range of difficulties, both legal and practical, in the implementation of the financial legislative regime contemplated in the Constitution.
The legislative review undertaken by the national Treasury has emphasised the need for a comprehensive, transparent, coherent and accountable budget process. To ensure this, it is proposed that, firstly, sections 77 and 120 of the Constitution be amended to extend the definition of the money Bill, to include Bills that abolish or reduce, or grant exemptions from taxes, levies, duties or surcharges.
Secondly, section 73 is amended to add the Division of Revenue Bill envisaged in section 214 to the list of legislation to be introduced in the National Assembly by the Minister of Finance only.
The amendment of section 73 takes into account what is really provided for in the Intergovernmental Fiscal Relations Act. It also takes into account the fact that budget legislation consists not only of tax legislation and Appropriation Bills, but also of legislation that provides for the equitable sharing of revenue raised nationally.
Section 216 is amended, firstly, to remove the words that obscure the content of the national Treasury by wrongly suggesting that the Cabinet member responsible for national financial matters is not a part of the National Treasury, when, in fact, that Cabinet member is in law the head of the National Treasury and the functionary in which the power and the authority of the National Treasury vests.
Secondly, the amendment makes it clear that stopping funds in terms of section 216(2) is a mechanism to enforce prescribed Treasury norms and standards. Thirdly, this amendment removes the implication of the current formulation that the only instance when the stopping of funds is allowed is when a serious or persistent material breach of Treasury norms and standards is committed.
It accordingly makes it clear that the national Treasury may stop the transfer of conditional grants to provinces and municipalities if they do not comply with the conditions of the grant. Section 217(3) is amended to make it clear that to the extent that organs of state decide to implement a preferential procurement policy, such policy must be implemented within the framework set out in the Preferential Procurement Policy Framework Act - the national legislation enacted pursuant to that section.
The amendment removes an anomaly caused by the pre-emptory requirement that national legislation must prescribe a framework for preferential procurement when, in terms of the current formulation, organs of state have the discretion to simply ignore this constitutionally required Act of Parliament.
We provided in section 220 of the Constitution for the establishment of the Financial and Fiscal Commission, or FFC, to make recommendations to Parliament, provincial legislatures and any other authority provided for in legislation.
While we provided that this important body would make recommendations and not decisions on financial and fiscal matters, and that it would be independent, impartial and subject only to the Constitution and the law, we structured it as if it were a financial and fiscal bargaining forum with representatives of each province and of local government.
Besides the fact that the FFC’s composition, in terms of the FFCs’s own submission, is cumbersome and has resulted in many vacancies, it also goes against the fundamental tenets of the body as being independent, of provinces as well, impartial, and subject to the Constitution and the law, not to mandates given by the national Government, and by provincial and local government.
The amendment of section 221 will rectify this anomaly and result in an effective membership of only nine people. Provision is made for the enactment of national legislation to regulate the participation of premiers and organised local governments in the appointment of FFC members. There is, of course, a consequential amendment to section 163 to deal with organised local government participation in the FFC process.
Section 226 is amended to allow for the enactment of framework legislation to ensure proper and uniform budgetary processes in the provinces, and to ensure that direct charges against provincial revenue funds are treated by all provinces as an exceptional form of authorising expenditure. This amendment effectively ensures that the budget process is comprehensive, coherent and transparent.
The amendment of section 226 also ensures that the allocation of national Government funds to local government through a province must be divided among municipalities in the province in accordance with national Government’s criteria.
A technical amendment is affected to section 228(1)(b) to delete a reference to the words ``tax bases’’ as tax experts believe that these words have no definite meaning in the context in which they appear. This deletion enhances the provinces’ power to raise taxes, including flat-rate surcharges on certain national taxes.
Section 230 is amended to ensure that it only regulates provincial borrowing powers, as municipal borrowing powers will now be dealt with in the new section 230A referred to earlier. The amendment to section 230, as is the case with section 230A, also makes it clear that loans for current expenditure may only be raised where necessary for bridging purposes, and accordingly deletes the confusing requirement that bridging finance be repaid within 12 months.
These constitutional amendments improve financial governance and transparency, make provision for the enactment of the legal framework necessary to ensure cheaper local government borrowing, covering longer periods, which is essential for local infrastructure development, and clarify confusions and sometimes contradictory sections in Chapter 13 of the Constitution. It is technical, but it is very clearly set out. [Applause.]
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, I prepared a 12-page speech, but after listening to the Deputy Minister I have no choice but to leave out 10 pages and concentrate on only two pages. [Interjections.]
When dedicated people are at work, they alter things which need to be altered, improve things which need to be improved and accommodate genuine concerns raised by people who might be negatively affected. As seasoned politicians, we are doing the same in this Bill.
In the past few years our Constitution has been put under a spotlight, and it was apparent that it is not without shortcomings. These shortcomings came from a range of practical difficulties that were encountered in its implementation, especially the clauses dealing with financial matters.
The powers of the Minister of Finance are extended in this Bill by amending section 73(2). In terms of this section, only a Cabinet member or committee of the National Assembly may introduce draft legislation, but only the Cabinet member responsible for national finance matters may introduce a money Bill in the Assembly. In other words, only the Minister of Finance may introduce all legislation emanating from the provisions of Chapter 12 of the Constitution. This then means that only the Minister of Finance would be constitutionally competent to introduce money Bills in the Assembly.
The Minister of Finance will do all these things mentioned in Chapter 12, except when such legislation relates to the financial administration of Parliament or a provincial legislature, or deals with the remuneration of persons holding public profits mentioned in section 219, or regulates rates on property in terms of section 229.
In this Bill we have been careful not to do anything that will negatively affect provinces. The NCOP, as a link between the national Government and the provinces, will have a say on any financial legislation that affects provinces from now on. As I said, the hon the Deputy Minister has covered lot of ground. I think the best thing for me to say now is that in whatever one is doing, if one realises or discovers that one is facing a wrong direction, one should just turn around and face the right direction. [Applause.]
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson … [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! The Chair is not making a mistake; Mr Lever.
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, I did not suggest that you were.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Nor did I suggest that Mr Lever was; I was replying to somebody. Carry on, Mr Lever.
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, I hope this has not eaten into my time; not that I need much, because the Bill has been explained rather comprehensively, but I will try to give a précis of it.
The Bill contains a number of important technical amendments to the Constitution of the Republic. The amendment of section 73 provides that only the Minister of Finance may introduce a Bill that provides for the equitable division of revenue raised nationally among the national, provincial and local spheres of government. It also provides that such a Bill may not be introduced in this House.
Section 77 is amended to replace and extend the definition of money Bills.
The word national'' is inserted before taxes’’ to distinguish taxes
raised at national level from those envisaged in the amendments to section
120 of the Constitution. The effect of section 77, read with section 73, is
that only the Minister of Finance may introduce a Bill which establishes,
abolishes or reduces taxes, or authorises with certain limited exceptions a
direct charge on the national revenue fund.
The amendments to section 120 brings the provincial equivalent of a money Bill into line with the changes made to the definition at national level.
The amendments to section 163(b) remove the obligation on Parliament to enact an Act to regulate the appointment of representatives of local government to the Financial and Fiscal Commission. This procedure will now be regulated by the procedures envisaged by the amendments to section 221 of the Constitution.
The amendments to section 216 clarify when and in what circumstances the national Treasury may stop the transfer of funds to a province or an organ of state.
The effect of the amendments to section 217 is to provide that organs of state must procure goods and services in a fair, equitable, transparent and cost-effective manner, and that such organs of state must implement their preferential procurement policies within the framework set out in the relevant national legislation.
The contentious part of the Bill is contained in the amendments to section
- Their effect is to reduce the number of members of the Financial and Fiscal Commission from 22 to 8 members. Originally, each province had a representative on the commission. In terms of the amendments, the President shall appoint three members to represent the provinces, after consultation with the premiers of all the provinces. Our fear is that an opposition voice will be excluded from the commission.
The Amendment to section 226 of the Constitution provides for national legislation which will set up a framework to determine when a province may authorise a withdrawal of money as a direct charge against the Provincial Revenue Fund. It also provides that money allocated to a province for municipalities in such province be paid over to the respective municipalities.
The amendments to section 228 are merely for deleting the words ``the tax bases of’’, as in the context of section 228 they had no meaning. The amendments to section 230 of the Constitution make the provisions thereof applicable to provinces only. The circumstances in which municipalities could commit themselves to debt were dealt with in the previous amendment to the Constitution. Despite the one reservation set out here, the DP supports the Bill. Mr N V NGIDI (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson this Government has always recognised the involvement of provinces in the national processes of governance. The creation of the NCOP attests to that. We thereby maximised the role of provinces in the national legislative process. This not only helped the provinces to impact on national processes, but also ensured that national processes became as transparent as possible. We as provinces would like to jealously guard our continued role in national processes.
We as representatives from the KwaZulu-Natal legislature have been given the mandate to support the Bill at hand, but that support is conditional. The condition is with regard to the changes that we believe should be effected in clause 7 of the Bill. We cannot agree to a diminished provincial role in the FFC process, hence we object to decreasing provincial representation.
We believe that decreasing provincial representation will stunt the commission’s performance of its task as contained in section 220(1) subsection 1 of the Constitution. We appreciate that the commission as it is currently composed is too big and cumbersome and that there is a need for its reduction. But we believe that the reduction must not happen at the expense of provincial representation. It is for this reason that we agreed with all the provisions of clause 7 of the Bill, except in so far as it purports to reduce provincial representation. Our mandate is to agree to all provisions of the Bill, except in so far as it reduces provincial representation from nine to three.
There is one legal point that needs to be addressed, and that is the question whether at this stage of the Bill we are in a position to effect any amendment. There is an opinion that says section 74 does not allow for that, but we believe that it is possible to do so. In terms of section 74(6) of the Constitution, we need to table written statements.
The question is: What should be contained in the written comments? We believe ours is not just to say aye or nay to the Bill, but, if necessary, to amend it. We submit that section 74(b) of the Constitution gives us that authority. As such, we propose that clause 7 of the Bill be amended in this manner, and that is that it stands as it is except in clause 7(1)(b) where we believe the status quo, as provided in section 221(b) of the Constitution, should prevail.
Mnr C ACKERMANN: Voorsitter, dit is nogal interessant dat die agb lid Lever hom verwerdig het om oor die Grondwet te praat terwyl sy party vandag sy rug op die Grondwet gekeer het. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Mr C ACKERMANN: Chairperson, it is quite interesting that the hon member Lever deigned to speak about the Constitution while his party today turned its back on the Constitution.]
His party undermined the Constitution of South Africa today by walking out of Parliament. [Interjections.] The Constitution provides for a democratic government. It provides for participation of political parties. It provides for houses of parliament, a public protector, courts, a judiciary, a Bill of rights and freedom of speech. What does Mr Lever’s party do? They boycott the highest institution of democratic government, which is Parliament. [Applause.] [Interjections.] What is more …
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! What is out of order, Mr Lever?
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, the sitting which the DP walked out of was not a sitting of Parliament, but an informal gathering of members. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Ackermann, you may proceed.
Mr C ACKERMANN: What is more, they cannot take criticism. This is a party that has criticised Cosatu time and time again for boycotting. But what do they do? They boycott! [Laughter.]
This is not fight back''; it is back fight’’. It is ``back-side’’
politics. This is turning our back on the very voters who put us in
Parliament to preserve the Constitution of South Africa. [Interjections.]
They are not the DP. They are the Boycott Party of SA. Therefore the
question is: Does South Africa still need such a party? The answer is no,
we do not need them. We need a constructive opposition in South Africa, and
that party is the New NP of SA. [Applause]. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, we have not heard the hon Ackermann say one relevant word about the Bill before this House. I would like to ask that he be confined to the subject matter of this debate.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Mr Lever, the hon member is still on the floor. You may proceed, hon member. You were talking about the Constitution.
Mnr C ACKERMANN: Voorsitter, ek sal die Huis nie langer vermaak met dié party nie. Ek het simpatie met die standpunt wat hy ingeneem het, maar Suid- Afrika het dié party nie meer nodig nie.
Die Nuwe NP sal die Grondwet van Suid-Afrika en dít waarvoor dit staan, verdedig. Ons glo nie die Grondwet moet willens en wetens verander word nie, maar ons glo ook ons moet nie rigied wees as die Grondwet verbeter kan word nie. Daarom sal ons dié Wysigingswetsontwerp steun.
Ons het sekere voorbehoude oor klousule 7, die samestelling van die Finansiële en Fiskale Kommissie. Tydens onlangse verhore van Salga in die portefeuljekomitee het ons verneem daar het ‘n behoefte ontstaan met die samestelling van die nuwe plaaslike owerhede in Suid-Afrika. Op plekke waar die drie vlakke van regering in die plaaslike owerheid verteenwoordig is, soos die metropole, distriksmunisipaliteite en gewone munisipaliteite, verteenwoordig provinsiale plaaslike organisasie nie altyd al drie vlakke van regering nie. Dit laat die gewig in provinsiale organisasies swaai ten gunste van òf metropole, distriksmunisipaliteite òf gewone munisipaliteite.
Die wetswysiging maak voorsiening vir net twee lede van plaaslike owerhede. Miskien moet ons dié aspek hersien om te kyk of ons nie ‘n balans tussen die drie sfere van plaaslike owerhede kan kry nie. Die klem moet nie op metropole of distriksmunisipaliteite geplaas word en hulle sodoende voorkeur geniet nie. Ingevolge die reëls van die Finansiële en Fiskale Kommissie moet ons ook na klein plaaslike owerhede kyk.
Ek wil dit graag onder die Minister se aandag bring. Dit is iets wat in die afgelope week na vore gekom het en wat nie ter sprake was in die portefeuljekomitee nie. In die toekoms moet ons miskien daarna kyk.
Die vraagstuk wat in klousule 9 voorkom, naamlik tax base'', lei tot
verwarring. Ons het vandag van die agb lid van die Vrystaat ook gehoor van
tax base’’. Daar bestaan ook ‘n siening dat die streekdiensterade se
heffings op ‘n tax base'' gebaseer is, naamlik omset. Derhalwe sal ons
graag wil weet, wat was die regering se oogmerk deur te sê dat dit 'n
tegniese verwydering is uit die wet. Wat was die oorweging? Hoekom is die
benamingtax base’’ wel uit die wet gehaal?
Met hierdie paar woorde en met hierdie lekker ``DP-bashing’’ sal die Nuwe NP hierdie wetsontwerp ondersteun. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr C ACKERMANN: Chairperson, I shall no longer entertain the House with this party. I have sympathy with the standpoint he adopted, but South Africa no longer needs this party.
The New NP will defend the Constitution of South Africa and what it stands for. We believe that the Constitution should not be amended wilfully, but we also believe that we should not be rigid if the Constitution could be improved. For this reason we shall support this amending Bill. We have certain reservations about clause 7, the composition of the Financial and Fiscal Commission. During the recent hearings of Salga in the portfolio committee we leant that a need had arisen with regard to the composition of the new local authorities in South Africa. In places where the three tiers of government are represented in the local authority, for example the metropolises, district municipalities and ordinary municipalities, provincial local organisations do not always represent the three tiers of government spheres. This shifts the balance in provincial organisations in favour of benefit of either metropolises, district municipalities or ordinary municipalities.
The statutory amendment provides for only two members of local authorities. Perhaps we should revise this aspect to see whether we cannot find a balance between the three spheres of local authorities. The emphasis must not be placed on metropolises or district municipalities so that they enjoy precedence as a consequence. In terms of the rules of the Financial and Fiscal Commission we must also look at the small local authorities. This is something I would like to bring to the Minister’s attention. It is something which has arisen this past week and which was not raised in the portfolio committee. Maybe we should look at this in the future.
The issue which arises in clause 9, namely tax base'', leads to
confusion. Today we also heard the hon member from the Free State mention
tax base’’. There is also a perception that the levies of the regional
services councils are based on a tax base'', namely turnover. Therefore
we would like to know what the Government's intention was when it stated
that this was a technical exclusion from the Act. What was the motivation?
Why was the phrasetax base’’ removed from the Act?
With these few words and with this enjoyable DP-bashing the New NP will support this Bill.] [Applause.]]
Prof M N KHUBISA (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, hon members, some of the
concerns of our province have been ably echoed by my colleague next to me.
This Bill seeks, among other things, to clarify in a broader manner the
meaning of a money Bill. The Bill includes or introduces other matters,
which are not found in the original text of the related clauses or sections
in the Constitution, for instance in clause 2(a) of this Bill where the
word or'' is deleted, and in clause 2(b) where or’’ is deleted and
``duties or surcharges’’ included.
This money Bill, again, in clause 2(c) goes on to include the abolition or reduction, or granting of exemptions from, any national taxes, levies, duties or surcharges. No one can deny the fact that we need a national framework that embodies uniformity in standards and norms regarding the procurement procedures of funds by the organs of state. This is necessary and important if, as a country, we have to develop means and ways of regulating how state organs use the finances of the state.
Let me say just two things, which are our concerns especially from the IFP side. We feel that the Constitution should not be amended piecemeal, but through a constitutional review process which is annual. I think that is our concern. But let me hasten to say that there is sense in removing ambiguities and complexities from any law. However, as the hon Deputy Minister stated in her speech, we need time to argue matters of this magnitude. Therefore, we need time to discuss these matters because they are very important.
It is very important for the Government to have a national framework to ensure that organs of state are able to use the money of the Government according to the standards set, although I must say, there is some need for creativity in terms of which organs of state are given an opportunity to work under their own set parameters and that the state checks whether the moneys are used correctly.
Having said that, let me hasten to say that as a province we feel, as has been said, that when we have the FCC, the number may be too big, because we have to deal with issues of efficiency and effectiveness. We propose that we remove the underlined words in clause 7(b) in order that the provision continues to read as it currently stands. [Applause.]
Mr S L ANDERSEN (Western Cape): Chairperson, initially the province of the Western Cape expressed concern regarding the provisions of the Bill as it appeared at its first publication. However, since its first publication amendments have been made to the Bill. The province is pleased that most of the contentious clauses, to which the province initially objected, have indeed have been rejected by the parliamentary portfolio committee, and do therefore not appear in the final draft of the Bill currently before the Council.
In view thereof, the province wishes to express its support for the Bill. At the same time, while the province does support the Bill, it also wishes to note certain reservations regarding three of the clauses. Firstly, regarding clause 4: proposed amendment of section 163, this clause provides that an Act of Parliament must determine procedures by which local government may participate in the process envisaged in section 221 to elect its representative to the Financial and Fiscal Commission.
While we accept that the envisaged process which is being provided for in this clause and in the proposed amendment to section 221 will allow for participation, this amendment will mean that local government loses the right to nominate persons to the FFC. There is a difference between nomination and mere consultation. In practice it will mean that local government will only be consulted as to who their representatives are. They will however, not be able to have the final say as to who their representatives to the FFC are as they would have had, had they been allowed to actually nominate persons. Secondly, with regard to clause 7, the proposed amendment of section 221, while this province realises that in terms of practicality there is a need to reduce the size of the FFC by reducing the number of provincial representatives to the FFC from nine to two, this will mean that the provinces will only be collectively represented. It must be borne in mind that the economic environment and financial position and interests of provinces differ from one another, and that each province should ideally have its own representative to address that province’s particular needs and concerns.
Furthermore, the Constitutional Court, in ex parte of the Constitutional Assembly, in recertification of the Constitution Republic of South Africa Act of 1996, emphasised the importance of the representation of each province at the FFC. This was enshrined in the constitutional principles upon which our Constitution is based, particularly constitutional principle
- Finally, while it is accepted that provinces and local government will participate in the process being envisaged in the amendment of section 221, provinces and local government will no longer be allowed to nominate their representatives. Thirdly, with regard to clause 9 - the proposed amendment to section 228 - the proposed amendment of this section, will delete the words ``tax base’’ from section 228. One cannot calculate a tax if there is no tax base upon which to calculate it.
Currently the Constitution will allow a provincial legislature, after the promulgation of the Provincial Tax Regulation Bill, to impose flat-rate surcharges on the tax bases of any nationally imposed tax levy duty.
In effect, this means that the province may not impose a flat-rate surcharge as a percentage of national tax liability, ie a surcharge or a tax on a tax. Thus, if the proposed amendment is effected, it would imply that a province may impose a surcharge on a national tax which is undesirable. Furthermore, by excluding the words ``tax base’’, the mobility of provinces to impose provincial taxes and increase own revenue sources is severely restricted.
It is suggested that the words ``tax base’’ should not be deleted, as the tax base is a higher income generator in comparison to tax potential on tax income, which is now proposed. The broader the tax base, the more taxpayers included in the base, and the greater the potential tax revenue for a given tax rate.
Finally, it should also be added that in the new proposed Provincial Tax Regulation Process Bill mention is also made of a tax base. From the point of view of consistency between statutes it may therefore be advisable not to delete the words from the Constitution. [Applause.]
Mr T B TAABE: Madam Chair, hon Deputy Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development, hon members, it would have been quite interesting if we had the opportunity to continue the debate on boycott politics and boycott parties. We would probably have had a very exciting afternoon of political engagement, at least at the level of this House. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!
Mr T B TAABE: I will not dwell on such issues. I think our overriding responsibility is to support the amendments as proposed. Anything else, at least at this juncture, is peripheral. As I have pointed out, this Bill deals with a number of technical amendments which I would like to deal with very briefly. Before that, I think we as members of this House should take the opportunity to thank the national Treasury for their resolve to ensure continuous review of national legislation on financial matters.
We should equally appreciate that such an exercise is bound to create its own complexities and difficulties in terms of legislation that will ensure that we can comply with the dictates enshrined in our Constitution.
The Deputy Minister this afternoon referred to the legislative review undertaken by the national Treasury which emphasises the need for, in her own words, a comprehensive, transparent, coherent and accountable budget process, which is sufficiently dealt with in sections 77 and 120 of the Constitution.
Equally important is section 217(3) which makes provision for organs of state who want to implement a preferential procurement policy. This section is quite unambiguous. It is quite unambivalent. It says quite clearly that whatever organ of state implements a preferential procurement policy must do so within the framework set out in the Preferential Procurement Policy Framework Act.
Regarding this Bill, section 221 changes the composition of the FFC by reducing the number of members from 22 to eight, thus obviating the problem of the FFC being a cumbersome body. We hope that with this provision, as is being suggested, a body as important as the FFC will be able to execute its mandate in a most effective and efficient way.
The technical amendments, as suggested, will assist us as legislatures and other arms of Government to do the kind of work we are supposed to do in terms of the Constitution, thus ensuring that, in the final analysis, we can improve the lot of our people out there.
I would have loved to respond to the statements the hon members of the opposition made. I will not, because I do not have time this afternoon to engage in all sorts of trivialities in this House. All sorts of things were said which to me were nothing but errant twaddle, if not balderdash at worst. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Madam Chair, we remain convinced that the new format for the FFC will enhance service to provinces. It is a principled position that we have taken. One of the issues that we have to deal with today is the rigid sticking to the principle that provinces can only be represented if they have a member. We feel this is not true.
We do not think each province requires its own member, partially because many of the provinces experience very similar fiscal challenges, but also because we think the three people that will be nominated to represent the provinces would very much be able to champion the cause of all nine. That is certainly our feeling.
Mr Lever is worried about the possible exclusion of an opposition voice from the FFC. However, as section 221 currently reads, each province is represented by one person nominated by the executive council of that province. It is obviously unlikely that the executive council concerned would nominate an opposition representative.
In any event, the bottom line is still that the FFC must be independent. Members of the FFC do not represent political principals. That is a reality of an independent body, and it is quite simple.
Mr Ackermann expressed concern about local government involvement. It went beyond taking into account the provision made by the Bill for national legislation that will provide for the involvement of organised local government in the appointment of the FFC.
If that legislation comes up, the hon Mr Ackermann really needs to play an active role in the formation thereof and get involved. Maybe he should flag that in his select committee’s work. I wish him well on the way forward.
The reference to the words ``tax base’’ in section 228 is removed because, in our view and in the view of international experts, and in the context in which it exists, these words have no proper meaning. Where they do exist in other pieces of legislation, they probably have a specific meaning, but here they do not. We believe the removal of those words further enhances the taxing powers of provinces as they will now be able to impose surcharges on the identified taxes and not just the tax bases that exist. We are talking about viewpoints. Our viewpoint is that this will certainly streamline the process. We do not believe that there is a Machiavelian intent to wrest influence or power from provinces. They will be very well represented. Furthermore, if the FFC works better, as the FFC itself has said, I remain convinced that the provinces will be served better in the long run. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Before I give parties the opportunity for declarations of vote, I think it is necessary to point out to the House that we have noted the amendment, but that according to Rule 173, amendments have to be placed on the Order Paper. My interpretation therefore is that they cannot be moved from the floor. I just wanted the House to know that I did not overlook that, but that I followed the Rules.
Declaration of vote:
Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, our mandate, which has already been put forward by both speakers from KwaZulu-Natal, is to propose an amendment to clause 7 by removing the underlined words in paragraph (b) of subsection 1 in order that the provision continues to read as it currently stands in the Constitution. Both speakers have referred to that. We have taken note of what you have said regarding the amendment. Our position is, however, that if this amendment cannot be considered today, we as a province have to oppose the Bill as a whole. That is our mandate.
I would also like to bring to your attention, in making this declaration, as has been pointed out by the Western Cape delegate in his speech, that although they have said they would support the Bill, they have serious reservations as far as clause 7 is concerned. In actual fact, they have also referred to the certification judgment by the Constitutional Court in which the representation of each province at the FFC was emphasised, and which is enshrined in the constitutional principles upon which our Constitution is based.
The position is that this mandate is dated only 13 November. Today is 15 November. The letter sent to the province points out that there is no room for a negotiating mandate, but that it will only be either a aye or a nay. We really feel strongly about this as a province, and we submit to you that there might be a way in which this amendment can be considered. If it is then rejected, that would be that, but if it cannot be considered, we as a province have to object to the Bill and oppose the Bill as a whole.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, you have quite correctly drawn the attention of my hon colleague to the procedure in the NCOP in terms of its Rules. The specific rule - Rule 224 - which deals with section 74 legislation, that is legislation that deals with constitutional amendments, provides specifically that before amendments can be considered by the Council, they must be placed on the Order Paper. Furthermore, in the event of a member placing an amendment on the Order Paper later than 12 o’clock on the preceding day, he or she can only do so with the permission of the Chairperson of the Council.
That is the provision. It does not allow any latitude other than the latitude that should the member fail to do so prior to the 24-hour period, then he or she must seek the permission of the Chairperson of the Council.
It is my respectful submission that this is a peremptory provision. We are talking about rules, and when we talk about the Constitution, we have to show the discipline and respect for that particular Rule. Furthermore, this Bill was circulated and provinces have participated in the processes. KwaZulu-Natal was part and parcel of the delegation that made representations when the committees conferred jointly, and they were aware of the fact that this matter was being referred directly to the Council.
Given that knowledge, there was sufficient opportunity for the member, or for the province, to make the appropriate application for an amendment to be placed on the Order Paper, and then considered. The practicality of it is that we cannot expect members or provinces to deviate from this procedure, because we are dealing with a constitutional amending Bill. Otherwise, provinces would now have to consider the amendment without having a mandate from their provinces to do so. This is the same prejudice that is being pleaded by KwaZulu-Natal through its representative.
I find it quite extraordinary that Mr Matthee raises the point when there are special delegates present, who are the duly authorised persons who carry the mandate of the province. However, they are not making the application. But Mr Matthee, who is a permanent delegate, is putting that position forward. I do not know whether such a mandate was conferred on him to move such an amendment in this House.
In a nutshell, unless an amendment appears on the Order Paper, it cannot be considered by Council, because each and every member of the Council must be fully aware of the exact contents of that proposed amendment.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, now the ball is in my court as I am the Chair. My ruling is that the Rules of this House will prevail. Therefore we will proceed with the programme.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 74(3)(b) of the Constitution (KwaZulu-Natal dissenting).
CRIMINAL PROCEDURE SECOND AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Madam Chair, this Bill is self-explanatory, very easy and very uncomplicated, and it is way overdue. I just want to say that it will bring to our court management processes an enormous boon. It will have a positive impact on court role management and court management. I do believe that that is to be welcomed by all.
I also know that in the committee process there was general support for this process, because it does not have a downside.
I am urging the Council to support the Bill. [Applause.]
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, let me follow the Deputy Minister’s example, because yesterday we went through a very difficult time.
In short, the select committee looked at this Bill and agreed that we were going to support it, because it makes it possible for the accused to enter into some kind of agreement with the prosecutor to expedite the case if he or she is pleading guilty. So, we are simply formalising that process, as the Deputy Minister said.
Having said that, I support the Bill. [Applause.] Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, the New NP supports this Bill which introduces a comprehensive new provision to give certainty to the system of plea and sentencing bargaining. It is a detailed and excellent piece of work which ensures that the rights of both the victims of crime and the accused are not overlooked where such a plea bargain arrangement or sentence agreement is made an order of court.
We also have to make use of this opportunity to thank the South African Law Commission for the excellent work that it has done in this fourth interim report on the simplification of criminal procedure as far as, specifically, sentence agreement is concerned.
It also refers in this report to the benefits that this will have on our whole criminal justice system. As we all know, and we have discussed it in this Council before and referred to it, there is a serious problem in the criminal justice system as far as the backlog in the courts is concerned, and as far as awaiting-trial prisoners in our prisons are concerned. We know that there are even some of those awaiting-trial prisoners who actually want to plead guilty. Some of those to whom we have spoken could plea guilty. This new amending Bill will certainly enhance the process of getting rid of the unacceptable backlog in our criminal justice system.
We want to express the hope and we trust that the goals that are set with this Bill will be met and that this will be used extensively and also that legal practitioners will make use of this Bill. We hope that this will enhance the whole criminal justice system in our country. [Applause.]
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, in order to streamline the procedure in the criminal courts, the South African Law Commission investigated the question of plea bargaining and sentence bargaining. The Law Commission found that although it was an informal process, the practice of plea bargaining has been conducted in our courts for some time, and that these practices were considered legal. In the past there was, however, no sentence bargaining.
In order to provide an incentive to entering into a plea of guilty, it was felt that the issue of sentence bargaining needed to be introduced and strictly regulated. Only prosecutors who are authorised in writing by the National Director of Public Prosecutions may enter into plea and sentence agreements. It is hoped that in practice this means only senior prosecutors will be authorised to enter into plea and sentence agreement.
An additional safeguard in the Act is that only the accused who are legally represented may enter into plea and sentence agreements. This is necessary to both obviate any form of coercion on an accused to plead guilty and exclude this as a ground to appealing or reviewing any conviction or sentence imposed as a result of a plea and sentence agreement.
In terms of the Bill, a prosecutor will have to consult with the investigating officer unless this would cause undue prejudice to the prosecution’s case or would affect the administration of justice. In entering into a plea and sentence agreement, the prosecutor must have due regard to the nature of and circumstances relating to the offence, the personal circumstances of the accused, the previous convictions of the accused, and the interests of the community. Where it is reasonable to do so, the prosecutor must allow the complainant or his or her legal representatives to make representation regarding the contents of the agreement and the possibility of including, in the agreement, a condition relating to compensation or rendering of some benefit or service in lieu of compensation to the complainant.
There are a number of formalities relating to the form and content of the agreement. A court is not permitted to participate in the negotiations leading to an agreement. Once an agreement has been entered into, the prosecutor shall inform the court of that fact. The court will then ascertain whether the formalities have been complied with, and afford the prosecutor an opportunity to correct any defects if the agreement does not comply with the necessary formalities. After the contents of the agreement have been disclosed, the court shall question the accused to determine whether the agreement was entered into freely and voluntarily and that the facts admitted by the accused constitute the offence to which he or she has pleaded. Further, the court will ascertain whether the accused confirms the contents of the agreement.
If for any reason the court is not satisfied that the accused is guilty of the offence pleaded to, it shall enter a plea of ``not guilty’’ and unless the accused waives this right, the trial shall proceed in front of a new magistrate. If the court is satisfied that the accused is guilty of the offence pleaded to, it shall consider the sentence agreement. If the court considers the sentence agreement just, it shall convict and sentence the accused in accordance with the agreement.
If the court considers the sentence unjust, it shall inform the prosecutor and the accused of what sentence it will consider just. The prosecutor and the accused would then have a choice to either abide by the agreement, subject to the right to lead evidence and present arguments on sentence, or withdraw from the agreement.
If under these circumstances the prosecutor and the accused choose to abide by the agreement, it may impose a sentence which it considers just. If either party withdraws from the agreement, then the trial shall commence afresh in front of a different magistrate, unless the accused waives this right.
This piece of legislation is necessary in order to streamline the procedures of the criminal justice system and, as such, the DP supports it. [Applause.]
Mr T B TAABE: Chairperson, I will not take much of the hon members’s time this afternoon. In relation to what has been said already by the hon Deputy Minister and other members, I want to say few things. One of the issues that I felt needed to be mentioned is that the Criminal Procedure Act, Act 51 of 1997, did not and does not, in any way, regulate the issue of sentence bargaining agreements, and this Bill, as hon members know, does just that. I felt that it would be important to explain what basically are the advantages of this legislation to our people in courtroom situations.
One of the advantages is that the proper ends of the criminal justice system are furthered, because swift and certain punishment serves the end of both general deterrent and the rehabilitation of the individual defendant. This is extremely important. A plea of guilty avoids the necessity of a public trial and may protect the innocent victim of a crime against the trauma of having to give evidence.
Hon members probably recall what the situation has been in our communities over the past few weeks in terms of the heinous crimes that have been perpetrated against innocent citizens of the country out there. So, this would then facilitate a situation in which the innocent victim of a particular crime is able to deal with the trauma of having to give evidence before a court of law.
Lastly, I must say that a plea agreement again may also contribute to the prosecution of other more serious offenders. The glorious army of the African people of this country, the ANC, supports the amendments to this Bill. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, I would like to thank the members for their contributions, which were positive, I might add. I also want to thank the officials and, in particular, Mr Labuschagne in our department, and the select committee for steering this legislation through this House. I would also like to make a rather unorthodox move with regard to the previous legislation. I forgot to do that earlier, because I had so many pieces of paper.
I would like to put it on record that I am grateful to the Chair and the select committee, and also to the members, for their contributions. Regarding that law it was very interesting, because we obviously had huge financial and a lot of legal inputs. This was an excellent example of co- operative governance. My thanks must go to Vuyo Kaagle of the Department of Finance and, of course, our own very valued Mr Johan de Lange from the Department of Justice. Thanks to all the members for their inputs, and I am delighted that this Bill is going through.
Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
The Council adjourned at 17:12. _______
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(1) Assent by the President of the Republic in respect of the
following Bills:
(a) Agricultural Research Amendment Bill [B 25B - 2001
(Reprint)] - Act No 27 of 2001 (assented to and signed by
President on 12 November 2001);
(b) Financial Institutions (Protection of Funds) Bill [B 23B -
2001] - Act No 28 of 2001 (assented to and signed by
President on 12 November 2001);
(c) Alexkor Limited Amendment Bill [B 29 - 2001] - Act No 29
of 2001 (assented to and signed by President on 12 November
2001); and
(d) Repeal of Volkstaat Council Provisions Bill [B 59 - 2001]
(National Assembly - sec 75)- Act No 30 of 2001 (assented to
and signed by President on 12 November 2001).
National Council of Provinces:
- The Chairperson:
(1) Bills passed by National Council of Provinces on 15 November
2001: To be submitted to President of the Republic for assent:
(i) Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B 82-2001] (National
Assembly - sec 77).
(ii) Revenue Laws Second Amendment Bill [B 84-2001] (National
Assembly - sec 77).
(iii) Constitution of the Republic of South Africa Second
Amendment Bill [B 78B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 74).
(iv) Criminal Procedure Second Amendment Bill [B 45B -2001]
(National Assembly - sec 75).
(2) Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:
Bill passed by National Assembly on 15 November 2001 and
transmitted for concurrence:
(i) Animal Identification Bill [B 49 - 2001] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Land and
Environmental Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Safety and Security:
Government Notice No R.1044 published in Government Gazette No 22750
dated 19 October 2001, Repeal of the South African Police Service
Grievance Procedure Regulations, 1995, made in terms of section
24(1)(f) of the South African Police Service Act, 1995 (Act No 68 of
1995).
- The Minister of Trade and Industry:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Competition Tribunal for
2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2000-2001 [RP 179-2001].
(b) Report and Financial Statements of Ntsika Enterprise Promotion
Agency for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General
on the Financial Statements for 2000-2001 [RP 198-2001].
(c) Report and Financial Statements of the National Lotteries Board
for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2000-2001.
National Council of Provinces:
-
Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on Designation of Ireland, dated 14 November 2001:
The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Designation of Ireland in terms of the Extradition Act, 1962 (Act No. 67 of 1962), referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 2(3)(a) of the Act, approve the said designation, subject to the following conditions:
-
No person surrendered by Ireland shall, in the Republic of South Africa -
(a) be proceeded against, sentenced or detained with a view to the carrying out of a sentence or detention order, or otherwise restricted in his or her personal freedom, for any offence committed prior to his or her surrender other than the offence in respect of which his or her extradition was sought or an offence of which he or she may lawfully be convicted on a charge of the offence in respect of which extradition was sought, except -
(i) with the consent of Ireland; or (ii) where the person, having had an opportunity of leaving the Republic of South Africa, has not done so within 45 days of final discharge in respect of the offence for which the person was surrendered by Ireland or, having left the Republic of South Africa after being so surrendered, has returned to the Republic of South Africa;(b) where the description of the offence charged is altered in the course of proceedings, be proceeded against or sentenced in the Republic of South Africa in respect of that offence, except so far as the offence under the new description is shown by its constituent elements to be an offence which would allow extradition from Ireland.
-
A person surrendered by Ireland shall not be surrendered by the Republic of South Africa to another country for an offence committed before the surrender of the person by Ireland except -
(a) with the consent of Ireland; or
(b) where the person, having had an opportunity of leaving the Republic of South Africa, has not done so within 45 days of final discharge in respect of the offence for which the person was surrendered by Ireland or, having left the Republic of South Africa after being so surrendered, has returned to the Republic of South Africa.
-
Report to be considered.
-
Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on Statutory Measures in Wine Industry, dated 13 November 2001:
The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having considered the application by the National Agricultural Marketing Council for the implementation of proposed statutory measures in the wine industry, reports, in terms of section 15 of the Marketing of Agricultural Products Act, 1996, that it has approved the recommendation of the Council.
The Committee further recommends that surplus funds be utilised at the Minister’s discretion within the industry in which they were collected.