THURSDAY, 22 JUNE 2000 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 14:02.

The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                          NOTICE OF MOTION

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That the Council -

(1) notes with regret the findings of the study by R Chetty for the National Crime Prevention Centre on the use and distribution of firearms in South Africa, including the following -

   (a)  that between 1994 and 1998 the number of people killed by guns
       had increased annually from 41% to 49% and that this senseless
       killing is still continuing;


   (b)  that more than 460 children under the age of 12 and 358 minors
       between 12 and 17 years of age were killed by guns in 1998;


   (c)  that the majority of murder victims killed by firearms were
       between 18 and 49 years of age, living either in Gauteng or
       KwaZulu-Natal;


   (d)  that South Africa has one of the highest rates of police
       officers killed in the world; and


   (e)  that of the 12 298 firearm-related murders committed in 1998,
       more than 7 000 were committed with guns; and

(2) therefore requests the Department of Safety and Security to urgently address all these concerns by applying strict preventative measures to prevent the unnecessary loss of life.

   APPRECIATION FOR ROLE AND WORK OF NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) as it has reached the halfway mark of its sittings this year, wishes to express its sincere thanks and appreciation to the Chairperson, the Deputy Chairperson, the Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson of Committees, the Secretariat and all officials of the Council, as well as the Chief Whip and all other whips, not only for the smooth running of this august Council, but also for the fact that the Council has in the first half of the first year of the millennium succeeded in creating an awareness of the importance and the pivotal role of the Council in respect of the Executive, the provinces and the public at large;

(2) looks forward to an exciting, fruitful and constructive rest of the year; and

(3) commits itself to work even harder in improving on its performance during the first half of this year in fulfilling its mandates and to make South Africa a better place for all its people.

[Applause.]

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                       VIOLENCE IN KWANONGOMA

                         (Draft Resolution)

Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) aligns itself with the report of, and the sentiments expressed and call made by, the Deputy President in the National Assembly this morning about the violence which took place in kwaNongoma in KwaZulu- Natal;

(2) calls on all political parties and peace-loving people in that area to leave no stone unturned in making sure that perpetrators of such violence are identified, isolated and flushed out of society; and

(3) again calls on all political parties to treat this matter with the seriousness it deserves and to encourage the people in kwaNongoma, and the country as a whole, in the best interests of love and peace, to stop maiming each other.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

              PROVISION OF TELEPHONE SERVICES BY TELKOM

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr S L E FENYANE: Chairperson, I move without notice: That the Council -

(1) otes that -

   (a)  the Telecommunications Act of 1996 and the licence contained in
       Notice 768 of 1997 laid out certain objectives which Telkom
       should meet;


   (b)  since then, approximately 1 017 799 access lines have been
       installed in previously underserviced areas;


   (c)  residents in 2 038 villages across the country received phone
       services for the very first time;


   (d)  8 911 priority customers such as schools and hospitals received
       phone services for the very first time; and


   (e)  the South African average of payphones per 1 000 people stands
       at 3,95 which exceeds the world average of 1,88;

(2) further notes that - (a) at the end of 1999 approximately 88% of Telkom employees had received training; and

   (b)  of the current 4 451 students who participate in Telkom's
       bursary programme, 54% are African; and

(3) congratulates Telkom on ensuring that many more South Africans have access to a phone today than they did in 1996 and on meeting the Government’s social objective with regard to telecommunications.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

 ACCIDENT ON ROAD BETWEEN MAMOGALIESKRAAL AND LETLHABILE NEAR BRITS

                         (Draft Resolution)

Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes - (a) with a deep sense of sadness and regret the death of 11 people which occurred on the road between Mamogaleskraal and Letlhabile near Brits on Tuesday, 13 June 2000;

   (b)  with unease the disturbing increase in deaths on our public
       roads; and


   (c)  with concern the apparent lawlessness of the driver of the heavy
       vehicle responsible for the accident, who was driving without a
       licence;

(2) offers condolences to all the families who lost relatives in this accident;

(3) appeals to all motorists to drive with extreme caution, especially during adverse weather conditions and thereby minimise the fatalities on our roads; and

(4) asks the traffic department to investigate the road conditions on this stretch of road in order to avoid a repeat of this type of accident.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                 AWARD FOR A FOR A DAY IN PARLIAMENT

                         (Draft Resolution)

Ms E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council notes that -

(1) Parliament recently received the exciting news that the publication, A Day in Parliament, a parliamentary comic book published to educate schoolchildren about parliamentary processes, has won one of the coveted International Association of Business Communicators’ Gold Quill Awards;

(2) the book was commissioned by the Public Participation Unit of Parliament in 1998 and that by March 1999, 5 000 copies had been published and delivered to Parliament for distribution to educators and learners visiting Parliament;

(3) the anecdotal information we have received thus far suggests that the initiative was received with great enthusiasm by the educators, who also found it fully compliant with the requirements of Curriculum 2005, particularly in terms of providing information in a format that learners find interesting - the comic book;

(4) for more than 25 years, the Gold Quill Awards Programme has been the hallmark of excellence in business communication and that the competition is recognised as one of the most credible industry measures, setting global standards of excellence and serving as the benchmark for the best;

(5) the annual international competition offers professional communicators an opportunity to have their work evaluated by expert judges, many of whom have been honoured for their excellence;

(6) Fox Strategic Company has won four of these awards since 1995 and its chief executive, Peter Blum, has represented South Africa on the panel of international judges; (7) this year’s 103 winners …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, is that a motion or a speech?

Ms E N LUBIDLA: It is a motion congratulating Parliament, Chairperson.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, could you summarise because your time has almost expired.

Ms E N LUBIDLA: Thank you, Chairperson. I continue:

(7) this year’s 103 winners were judged by the esteemed International Blue Ribbon Panel, and were selected out of 1 341 entries from 17 countries;

(8) the winners will be honoured at a gala banquet to be hosted by the IABC’s international conference on 28 June 2000 in Vancouver, Canada; and

(9) a copy of the comic book has been forwarded to the Speaker’s Office. (10) The opportunity to develop this award-winning publication on behalf of Parliament and our nation has been the greatest honour and a most humbling experience for all at Fox Strategic Company. For this we thank Madam Speaker and all other members of Parliament for making it possible.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, your time has expired. Is there any objection to accepting this short speech? [Laughter.] There is no objection.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

            COMMEMORATION OF DRAFTING OF FREEDOM CHARTER

                         (Draft Resolution)

Rev M CHABAKU: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) acknowledges the importance of this coming Sunday and Monday, being the memorable days when the Freedom Charter was drafted and unanimously accepted as the basis for the structural change of the racist, selfish, exploitative South Africa that dehumanised men and especially women, young people and children;

(2) looks back with pride and gratitude on the 45 years since 25 to 26 June 1955, during which the Freedom Charter continued to guide and influence our country and the whole world with its universal principles;

(3) unanimously endorses the Freedom Charter as the bulwark of our nation and future; and

(4) commits itself to being vigilant against forces that may seek to dilute it or deviate from its essence and goal, as we strive to create a God-guided and people-centred South Africa.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Is there any objection to the motion?

Mr C ACKERMANN: Yes, I object, Chairperson. The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.

HON MEMBERS: Shame!

Rev M CHABAKU: Chairperson …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! On what point are you rising, hon member?

Rev M CHABAKU: I am rising on a point of observation, Chairperson. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order, hon members!

              SOUTH AFRICA'S BID TO HOST 2006 WORLD CUP

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr D M KGWARE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the SA 2006 Bid Committee is in the final stages of lobbying
       support from Fifa delegates who will decide on the winning bid
       on Wednesday 5 July 2000; and


   (b)  the announcement will be made at the Zürich headquarters of Fifa
       on Thursday, 6 July 2000;

(2) wishes the SA 2006 Bid CEO, Danny Jordaan, and his committee the best of luck as they prepare to depart for Luxembourg to make South Africa’s final presentation at the UEFA Congress on the eve of the announcement;

(3) encourages all South Africans to give their unequivocal support to our Bid Committee; and

(4) urges all South Africans to demonstrate their support for our bid by actively engaging in all events planned throughout the country to coincide with the final announcement.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                        ZIMBABWEAN ELECTIONS

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr N M RAJU: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes that neighbouring Zimbabwe goes to the polls this weekend amid fears of violence and disruption; and

(2) expresses the hope that -

   (a)  the elections will be free and fair; and


   (b)  the results will be accepted by both the victors and the
       vanquished with a sense of calm equanimity in the true tradition
       of democracy.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Is there any objection to the motion?

Mr M E SURTY: Chairperson, I would like to amend the motion slightly. I move as an amendment:

That, in paragraph (1), amid fears'' be substituted byamid reports of fears’’.

We should rather word it thus, because we cannot state ``fears’’ as a statement of fact.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Does the hon member understand the amendment?

Mr N M RAJU: Yes, Chairperson, I have no objection to the amendment.

Amendment agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution. Motion, as amended, agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution, namely: That the Council -

(1) notes that neighbouring Zimbabwe goes to the polls this weekend amid reports of fears of violence and disruption; and

(2) expresses the hope that -

   (a)  the elections will be free and fair; and


   (b)  the results will be accepted by both the victors and the
       vanquished with a sense of calm equanimity in the true tradition
       of democracy.

       DONATION OF TEXTBOOKS BY JAPANESE EMBASSY TO NORTH WEST

                         (Draft Resolution)

Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) joins the North West department of education in thanking the Japanese Embassy and Education Africa for their generous donation of textbooks to the value of R490 000;

(2) welcomes the innovative learning environment offered by the Japanese Ambassador, Isi Sakasang, and the CEO of Education Africa, James Urdang, through their learner-friendly and educator-friendly textbooks;

(3) thanks Superintendent J Swartz and the SAPS for their donation of 250 computers to the Department of Education; and

(4) extends its appreciation to everyone who has added positively to the culture of learning in the North West.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

  THE ROLE OF PANSALB IN ACHIEVING MULTILINGUALISM IN SOUTH AFRICA

                      (Subject for Discussion)

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, since this debate is a debate of public importance, it is a pity that the hon the Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology and his deputy cannot be here. However, we wish them luck with their endeavours, wherever they might be.

Die Pansat-wetgewing bepaal dat ‘n betrokke staatsorgaan wat deur die raad aangespreek word, daarop moet reageer. Hieroor praat ons ook later. Die bevindings van die raad was min, maar tog betekenisvol en behoort ‘n rol te speel in die formulering van ‘n taalbeleid. Dit gebeur egter nêrens nie. Tot op hede is elke bevinding van die raad in die Staatskoerant gepubliseer. Die doel hiervan is dat daar amptelik kennis gegee word van die bevindings ten opsigte van ‘n verbreking van die veeltaligsheidbeginsel soos vervat in die Grondwet. Hieraan word egter min, indien enige, waarde geheg, hetsy deur die oortreder, deur ander instansies of deur die agb Minister van Kuns, Kultuur, Wetenskap en Tegnologie.

In ‘n polemiek in die media tussen me Christa Roodt, die regsadviseur van Pansat, en minister Ngubane, het die Minister Pansat beskuldig dat hy nie oor hul bevindings ingelig word nie. Hierop het ek die agb Minister ‘n parlementêre vraag gestel. Ek hoop die Minister het die vraag, wat ooglopend namens hom beantwoord is, al onder oë gehad, want dit is ‘n verleentheid en weerspreek wat die Minister aanvanklik gesê het, en bevestig dat die Minister ten volle ingelig is.

Daar is verdere beperkende faktore wat die werk van Pansat bemoeilik. Die infrastruktuur sal moet uitgebrei word sodat Pansat nie net ‘n klakanaal word nie, maar ook ‘n moniteringsrol kan speel soos vervat in artikel 6(4) van die Grondwet, wat duidelik sê dat die gebruik van amptelike tale gemoniteer moet word. Dit is sinneloos dat dit deur ‘n instansie self gedoen word. Dit sal deur ‘n verlengstuk van die onafhanklike statutêre liggaam, Pansat, moet geskied. Dit geld ook vir ons provinsies.

Ons moet Pansat bedank vir wat reeds bereik is, maar ons moet hulle ook maan dat, sodra die nasionale taalwetgewing en -beleid uiteindelik ‘n werklikheid word, hulle werk drasties gaan toeneem. In België, met ‘n fyn taalregstelsel en net drie tale, naamlik Nederlands, Frans en Duits, ontvang hulle klagtekommissie, wat dieselfde is as Pansat, 73 klagtes per week.

Ons wens Pansat sterkte toe, en ons as die moeder en vader van dié waghond het ‘n verantwoordelikheid om hom sterk te maak sodat hy sy kop hoog kan hou en die tale van ons voorvaders kan help beskerm en ontwikkel, en ons kan vatbaar maak om respek vir mekaar se tale te hê. Voorsitter, ek dank u, I thank you, enkosi, ke a leboga. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: The PanSALB legislation provides that any organ of state that is addressed by the board, must react to this. We will talk about this a little later. The findings of the board were few, yet significant, and ought to play a role in the formulation of a language policy. However, no where is this happening. To date, every finding of the board has been published in the Government Gazette. The purpose of this is that official notice should be given of the findings in respect of a violation of the principle of multilingualism as entrenched in the Constitution. However, little, if any, value is attached to this, whether it be by the offender, by other institutions or by the hon the Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology. During the controversy in the media between Ms Christa Roodt, the law adviser of PanSALB, and Minister Ngubane, the Minister levelled the accusation at PanSALB that he was not informed about their findings. I put a parliamentary question to the hon the Minister in this regard. I hope that the Minister has seen the question, which was apparently answered on his behalf, because this is an embarrassment and contradicts what the Minister initially said, and confirms that the Minister was fully informed.

There are further limiting factors which complicate the work of PanSALB. The infrastructure will have to be extended so that PanSALB will not only become a channel for complaints, but will also be able to play a monitoring role as stipulated in section 6(4) of the Constitution, which clearly states that the use of official languages must be monitored. It is senseless that this should be done by an institution itself. This will have to occur by way of an extension of the independent statutory body, PanSALB. This also applies to our provinces.

We must thank PanSALB for what has already been achieved, but we must also caution them that, as soon as the national language legislation and policy eventually become a reality, their work will increase drastically. In Belgium, with a delicate language rights system and only three languages, namely Dutch, French and German, their complaints commission, which is the same as PanSALB, receives 73 complaints per week.

We wish PanSALB all the best, and we, as the mother and the father of this watchdog, have a responsibility to make it strong so that it can hold its head high and help protect and develop the languages of our forefathers, and can sensitise us to have respect for one another’s languages. Chairperson, I thank you, ek dank u, enkosi, ke a leboga. [Applause.]]

Mnr A MARAIS: Mnr die Voorsitter, taal word, soos tradisies, kultuur en ander kodes waarvolgens mense leef, nie ingebore nie, maar aangeleer. Die ontwikkeling word hoofsaaklik bepaal deur die omgewing en kan nie in isolasie bestaan teen die dinamiek van elders nie. Dit is van hierdie uitgangspunt dat ek hierdie baie belangrike debat sal wil benader. Die terme en uitdrukkings in my voorlegging mag dalk die lagspiere prikkel, en selfs lei tot frustrasie. Hierdeur word nie gepoog om hierdie debat te verkleineer nie, maar om die tipe kreatiwiteit te illustreer wat mense aanwend om brûe te bou wanneer daar politiek gepoog word om hul permanent van mekaar te skei.

Chair, vandag wheatie ons oor lingoes, die einste tsaandie wat die hele mense se existence blind gemaak het in die past. Ek’s sure al die gents en ma-ousies wat luister na die discussion, gaan dit xasa, omdat almal kan gain or share. Dit is ‘n mncaa topic en ‘n ou voel kwaai om deel te neem, especially as ‘n former hotnot wat nou eers as true madjieta beskou word. Aag man, djy wiet, die larnies ander dag, hulle het ons ‘n blind tyd gegee. Lingo is ge-use om ons dik moegoes te maak. Sheba, ander dag in die Bloem en elsewhere is jou future gedetermine deur die way djy sekere Afrikaanse woorde gepronounce het. [Gelag.] Elke aand het daar ‘n sirene twee keer gelui, die eerste om 20:45 en daarna om 21:00. Enige bushie of darkie wat daarná in die voormalige wit gebiede sonder ‘n permit gevind is, is óf dik getik óf gemang óf albei. [Gelag.] Die oortreders is gewoonlik gevra om óf jakkals'' ofgeld’’ te sê. Dié wat van djakkalasse'' oftselete’’ gepraat het, is automatically as darkies beskou, en die res as bushies. Enige tsarras is onmiddellik gedeport. Die sogenaamde bushies is twee of drie hengse klappe en ‘n skoen onder die sitvlak gegee en daarna huis toe gestuur. As ‘n mens verder nie die terme baas'' ofmiesies’’ gebruik het nie, was jou kanse om span te kry zilch. Selfs Engelssprekendes, wat veronderstel was om meer verlig te wees, het hierdie terme as voorwaardes vir werkverskaffing gebruik. In fact, baie van hulle was net so blind - hónd-sleg!

Dit was in hierdie opsig dat Afrikaans geprivatiseer is en as pro- Christelike meganisme gebruik is om uniforme eerbiedigheid deur nie-blankes teenoor witmense te bewerkstellig. Eers as ‘n hotnot, en toe as ‘n boesman, of was dit nou andersom, en toe later as ‘n Kaapse kleurling, ‘n other coloured, is ek die verpersoonliking van die Suid-Afrikaanse diversiteit. Ek is ‘n thoroughbred met 150 spesies agter my. Genuine, né? [Gelag.]

Wel, in my boek het alle ander pedigrees ‘n regmatige plek onder die suiderson. Die ironie van Afrikaans, wat later die persoonlike eiendom van sogenaamde Europese Afrikane geword het, was dat dit die mengelmoestaal was wat die slawe moes praat om hul verskeie masters te dien. Dit het uiteindelik die maatstaf geword wat gebruik is om verdeeldheid en onderdrukking te bespoedig. Dit is nou ‘n geval van ‘n lat vir jou eie bas pluk! Kommunikasie is die oeroue instrument wat verhoudings tussen mense en groepe reguleer. Die mees algemene vorm van kommunikasie is die sisteem van gesproke of geskrewe simbole wat bekend staan as taal. In hierdie konteks is die gevolgtrekking baie maklik: geen kommunikasie, geen gemeenskap. Alhoewel kommunikasie dan beskou word as die basiese proses deur middel waarvan politieke aksie of konflik plaasvind, moet veeltaligheid in die Suid-Afrikaanse konteks bloot as ‘n meganisme beskou word om versoening en nasiebou te bevorder.

Uit die moerasse van die romantiek is sekere dinge soos verhewendheid, reinheid, uniekheid en - die slegste van almal - rassisme ingevoer na die wieg van die ganse mensdom. Substantiewe gelykheid beteken ‘n ooreenkomstigheid tussen groothede wat aan mekaar gelyk is. Voortspruitend uit hierdie fundamentele konsep is die beginsels wat Pansat sal moet volg. Die erfenis van die romantiek moet nooit weer gebruik word om óf darkies'',bushies’’, tsarras'' of selfslarnies’’ te produseer nie. Dinge soos telete'' of geld, jakkals ofdjakkalas’’, ``mncaa- geit’’ en ander voorbeelde spreek boekdele. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit praat van assimilasie, mobiliteit, samehorigheid, evolusie en revolusie. Pansat het ‘n grondwetlike opdrag om veeltaligheid te bevorder. Die raad moet sensitief staan teenoor huidige realiteite. Taal as ‘n reg moenie in yster gegiet word nie, maar moet as ‘n meganisme gebruik word om die kuns van assosiasie te bevorder. Ideale soos nasiebou en patriotisme en ander sosiale prioriteite moet ook hul agenda beïnvloed. Die realisering van die gelyke bevordering van veeltaligheid benodig die daarstelling van die nodige meganismes. Hoe dit egter ookal mag sy … [Tyd verstreke.] [Applous.]

DIE ADJUNKVOORSITTER VAN DIE NRP (mnr M L Mushwana): Orde! Ek is ongelukkig nie seker watter taal u besig was om te praat nie, maar dit is seker nie dié van die agb mnr Van Niekerk nie! [Gelag.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr A MARAIS: Mr Chairperson, language, as is the case with traditions, culture and other codes according to which people live, is not innate, but acquired. The development is primarily determined by the environment and cannot exist in isolation against the dynamics of elsewhere. It is from this point of departure that I would like to approach this very important debate. The terms and expressions in my speech may perhaps raise a laugh, and even lead to frustration. This is not an attempt to minimise this debate, but to illustrate the type of creativity which people utilise to build bridges when a political attempt is made to separate them from one another permanently.

Chair, today we wheatie'' [are talking] aboutlingoes’’ [languages], the very tsaandie'' [thing] that disrupted people's lives in the past. I am sure that all thegents’’ [men] and ma-ousies'' [women] who are listening to the discussion are going toxasa’’ [find it agreeable], because everyone can gain or share. It is a mncaa'' [nice] topic and it makes one feel good to participate, especially as a formerhotnot’’ who is only now considered a true madjieta'' [man]. Oh man, you know, the larnies’’ [powers that be] gave us a blind tyd'' [raw deal] in the past.Lingo’’ [language] was used to make us dik moegoes'' [look like fools]. Sheba, back then in Bloemfontein and elsewhere your future was determined by the way in which you pronounced certain Afrikaans words. [Laughter.] Every evening a siren was sounded twice, first at 20:45 and then 21:00. Anybushie’’ [coloured person] or darkie'' [black person] found in the former white areas after that time without a permit, was either thoroughly beaten orgemang’’ [thrown in jail] or both. [Laughter.] The offenders were usually asked to say jakkals'' or geld’’. Those who spoke aboutdjakkalasse'' ortselete’’ were automatically considered darkies'' [black people], and the rest as bushies’’ [coloured people]. Any tsarras'' [Indians] were immediately deported. The so-calledbushies’’ [coloured people] were given two or three hefty slaps, booted out and sent home.

Furthermore, if one did not use the terms baas'' andmiesies’’, one’s chances of making the team were ``zilch’’ [zero]. Even English-speaking people, who were supposed to be more enlightened, considered these terms prerequisites for employment. In fact, many of them were just as blind - and really bad!

It is in this regard that Afrikaans was privatised and used as a pro- Christian mechanism to achieve uniform deference towards white people by non-whites. First as a ``hotnot’’, and then as a bushman, or was it the other way around, and later as a Cape coloured, other coloured, I am the personification of the South African diversity. I am a thoroughbred with 150 species behind me. Genuine, hey! [Laughter.]

Well, in my book all other pedigrees have a rightful place under the southern sun. The irony about Afrikaans, which later became the personal property of so-called European Africans, was that it was the hodgepodge language which the slaves had to speak to serve their various masters. It eventually became the yardstick which was used to expedite division and oppression. That is now a case of making a rod for one’s own back!

Communication is the ancient instrument which regulates relations between people and groups. The most common form of communication is the system of spoken or written symbols which is known as language. In this context the conclusion is very simple: no communication, no community. Although communication is then viewed as the basic process by way of which political action or conflict takes place, multilingualism in the South African context must be viewed merely as a mechanism to promote reconciliation and nation-building.

From the quagmire of romanticism certain things such as elevation, purity, uniqueness and - worst of all - racism were imported to the cradle of humanity. Substantive equality means a similarity between greatnesses which are equal to one another. Arising from this fundamental concept are the principles which PanSALB will have to follow. The legacy of romanticism must never again be used to produce darkies'',bushies’’, tsarras'' or evenlarnies’’. Things like tselete'' orgeld’’ jakkals'' or djakkalas’’, ``mncaa-ness’’ and other examples speak volumes. [Interjections.] They speak of assimilation, mobility, solidarity, evolution and revolution.

PanSALB has a constitutional task to promote multilingualism. The board must be sensitive towards current realities. Language as a right must not be cast in concrete, but must be used as a mechanism to promote the art of association. Ideals like nation-building and patriotism and other social priorities must also influence their agenda. The realisation of the equal promotion of multilingualism requires the establishment of the necessary mechanisms. However, whatever the case may be … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Unfortunately I am not sure which language you were speaking, but it is probably not that of the hon Mr Van Niekerk! [Laughter.]]

Mnr J L THERON: Mnr die Voorsitter, agb kollegas, ek moet sê ek het dié kollega van my se humorsin geniet. Dit was baie aangenaam. Ek wil graag afskop met ‘n aanhaling deur Norman Fairclough, ‘n Kanadese taalkenner, wat wys op die belangrikheid van taal:

It can hardly be news to anyone that we are living in a period of intense social change, but what is perhaps less obvious is how important language is within the changes that are taking place.

Ons weet almal ons leef in ‘n tydperk van baie veranderinge. Daarom is dit belangrik om nie nou te karring aan die individu se taalregte en die gebruik van moedertaal nie.

Wat is die DP se beleid? Die DP sal voluit veg vir meertaligheid in Suid- Afrika. Die DP glo in die bevordering van Suid-Afrika se taaldiversiteit en die uitbou van respek vir taalregte binne die beleidsraamwerk van ‘n demokratiese Suid-Afrika.

Wat is die taak van Pansat en die Departement van Kuns, Kultuur, Wetenskap en Tegnologie in dié verband? Nadat die taalwetgewing vir ‘n taalbeleid in die Wetboek verskyn, is dit die taak van Pansat en die departement om toe te sien dat hierdie wetgewing toegepas word, met ander woorde, dat die taalbeleid tot uitvoering gebring sal word.

Huidig weet ons dat Pansat nie oor die nodige magte beskik om hierdie taak na behore te volvoer nie. Die taalbeleid wat uitgevoer moet word, maak sy verskyning in ‘n kritieke stadium van ons geskiedenis, wanneer openbare en private instansies ad hoc-besluite neem en die grondwetlike vereistes en bepalings oor meertaligheid ignoreer. Pansat blyk geheel en al nie by magte te wees om hierdie totaal onaanvaarbare praktyke stop te sit nie.

Wat is die aanbevelings van die DP in dié verband? Pansat is ‘n artikel 6- komitee van die Grondwet. Dié komitee is nie onafhanklik en onpartydig genoeg nie, en beskik nie oor die nodige magte en tande om op te tree nie.

Voorts is daar aan die ander kant ook die Kommissie vir die Bevordering en Beskerming van die Regte van Kultuur, Godsdiens en Taalgemeenskappe, waarvan die wetgewing nou by die Kabinet is. Hierdie is ‘n artikel 185- kommissie van die Grondwet. Hierdie kommissie, wat onafhanklik en onpartydig saamgestel gaan word, het genoeg magte en tande om op te tree, en is op dieselfde vlak as die Menseregtekommissie, die Ouditeur-Generaal, die Openbare Beskermer en die Onafhanklike Verkiesingskommissie of OVK.

Die DP beveel aan dat Pansat ontbind en opgeneem word in die Kommissie vir die Bevordering en Beskerming van die Regte van Kultuur, Godsdiens en Taalgemeenskappe. Die wetgewing oor hierdie kommissie is tans voor die Kabinet en moet genoeg magte en tande gegee word om meertaligheid in Suid- Afrika te verskans en uit te bou. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows):

[Mr J L THERON: Mr Chairperson, hon colleagues, I must say that I enjoyed my colleague’s sense of humour. It was delightful. I would like to start with a quote by Norman Fairclough, a Canadian expert on language, dealing with the importance of language:

It can hardly be news to anyone that we are living in a period of intense social change, but what is perhaps less obvious is how important language is within the changes that are taking place.

We all know that we live in a time of major changes. Therefore it is important not to tamper with the language rights of the individual and the use of his or her mother tongue.

What is the DP’s policy in this regard? The DP will continue to strive for multilingualism in South Africa. The DP believes in the promotion of South Africa’s linguistic diversity and the cultivation of respect for language rights within the policy framework of a democratic South Africa.

What is the task of PanSALB and the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology in this regard? After language legislation for a language policy has been placed on the Statute Book, it is the task of PanSALB and the department to ensure that this legislation is enforced, in other words, that the language policy is implemented.

At present we are aware of the fact that PanSALB does not have the necessary powers to execute this task properly. The language policy which has to be implemented appears at a critical stage in our history, when public and private institutions are taking ad hoc decisions and tending to ignore the constitutional requirements in regard to multilingualism. PanSALB seems not to be in a position to put an end to such unacceptable practices.

What are the recommendations of the DP in this regard? PanSALB is a section 6 committee of the Constitution. This committee is not independent and impartial enough and does not have the necessary powers and teeth to take action.

Furthermore, there is also the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities, on which legislation is currently before Cabinet. This is a section 185 commission of the Constitution. This commission, which will be constituted independently and impartially, now has enough powers and teeth to act and is on the same level as the Human Rights Commission, the Auditor- General, the Public Protector and the Independent Electoral Commission or IEC.

The DP recommends that PanSALB be dissolved and made part of the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities. Legislation on this commission is currently before the Cabinet and it has to be given enough powers and teeth to entrench and promote multilingualism in South Africa.]

We have five constitutional provisions. Section 6 of the Constitution provides the primarily legal and constitutional framework for multilingualism, the use of official languages, and the promotion of respect and tolerance for South Africa’s linguistic diversity. Amongst other things, it establishes the following norms: All official languages must enjoy parity of esteem and be treated equitably. The status and use of indigenous languages must be enhanced. Government must take legislative and other measures to regulate and monitor the use of these official languages.

Wat sê die Heropbou- en Ontwikkelingsprogram in dié verband? [What does the Reconstruction and Development Programme say in this regard?]

The RDP also charges Government with the responsibility of establishing and implementing a language policy that encourages and supports, financially and otherwise, the utilisation of all languages of South Africa. That is in paragraph 3.4.3.7 of the RDP. The vision of the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology for promoting multilingualism is outlined in its corporate goal of supporting -

… the linguistic diversity of our country as a resource in empowering all South Africans fully to participate in their country’s social, political and economic life.

Wat betref die ontwikkeling van ‘n taalbeleid vir Suid-Afrika het die Departement van Kuns, Kultuur, Wetenskap en Tegnologie die taak om dié taalbeleid te ontwikkel. [With regard to the development of a language policy for South Africa the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology has the task of developing this language policy.]

What are the requirements? The basic requirements for a language policy in South Africa have to be, firstly, consistent with the constitutional provisions on language, including those relating to language as a human right. Secondly, they are fundamental to the management of our diverse language resources, the achievement of the Government’s goals of promoting democracy, equity and national unity and in addressing the language use, needs and priorities of the people of South Africa.

I conclude by saying that, as could be deduced from the above-mentioned, the DP feels very strongly about the enhancement of multilingualism in South Africa as one of our greatest assets. We feel that PanSALB is not the right vehicle to protect and promote multilingualism, and should be disbanded. The DP believes that PanSALB should be part of the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities. This is in Chapter 9, Section 185 of the Constitution, in terms of which the commission must be more independent, impartial, and have much more power to protect and promote multilingualism in South Africa.

Moruti P MOATSHE: Motlotlegi Moradisi le Ntlo e e tlotlegang, go boela kwa meding e e kgaotsweng ke batswakwa, fa ba re etsa baleleri le bafaladi mo lefatsheng la rona la tsalo, go lemoga dingwao, meetlo le setso sa bana ba thari, bana ba mpa le bana ba mmala we sebilo.

Batho Pele ke lenaane le le re rutang gore motho ke motho ka batho ba bangwe, mabogo dinku a a thebana. Puo ke yona e e ka re gorosang kwa go re ruteng, rona mmogo le bana ba rona, gore motho enne motho fa a sa nyatse ditso, dingwao le dipuo tsa merafe e mengwe.

A e re fa motho a thapiwa mo pusong, go lebiwe matshwaotshupo a a umakilweng fa godimo a gore aa o na le nonofo ya tlhaeletsano ka puo ya setho, go goroga go ba ba kaiwang ba sa rutega go ya ka thuto ya bophirima.

Fa moagi, Mo-Aforika, a etela dikantoro tsa Lefapha tsa Selegae go dira kopo ya lokwaloitshupo, a a bone diforomo tsa go dira kopo di kwadilwe ka puo ya setho. Fa go se jalo, a a bone thuso ka mongwe yo o kgonang puo e e dirisiwang ke bontsi.

Fa o fofa, o etela mafatshe a boditšhaba, puo e e dirisiwang mo difofaneng ke puo ya setso. Fa o le kwa Engelane, go dirisiwa sejatlhapi, kwa Jeremane go dirisiwa Sejeremane, kwa Holland ba dirisa Se-Nederland, mo Aforika Borwa ga go dirisiwe dipuo tsa setso. Maleme a setso ga a kaiwe ka gope fa go diriwa kitsiso mo moeng. Ke nako, mme nako ke gompieno, gore re gwetlhe go sa dirisiweng ga dipuo tsa setso tsa Aforika. Ke nako ya gore fa re le Ma-Aforika, re itse dipuo le serorumo sa tsona.

Ke kwa Toreng ya Babele kwa Modimo a dirileng gore batho ba se utlwane ka dipuo, mme ke kwa dipuo di tlholegileng teng. Re na le dipuo di le tharo tse di senang setso mo Aforkika Borwa. Ya ntlha ke Sefanakalo. E kopantshe Sezulu, Sendebele le Sexhosa. (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)

[Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson and honourable House, we are going back to our roots, from which we were cut off by outsiders who turned us into refugees in our own land; we are going back to the tradition, customs and culture of the black people.

Batho Pele is a programme that makes us aware that one needs other people if one is to succeed in life, and that one good deed deserves another. It is only through language that we can, together with our children, learn that a person is mature only when he or she does not look down on other people’s culture, tradition and languages.

Let us make it a rule that before someone is employed in the Public Service, it should first be established whether he or she is suitable in terms of the pointers mentioned above, ie whether he or she can communicate effectively with those who are regarded as uneducated in the western sense.

If citizens who speak an African language visit the Home Affairs office to apply for identity documents, they should be given forms that are written in their respective languages. If that is not possible, they should be helped by someone who speaks the dominant language in that area.

When one visits a foreign country, one finds that a local language is often used to make announcements in their planes. For example in England, English is used; in Germany it is German; and in Holland they use Dutch, but in South Africa we do not use any indigenous language. No respect for indigenous languages is shown whenever announcements are made on the air. It is time we challenged the failure to use African indigenous languages. It is time we as Africans learned and respected our languages.

It was in the Tower of Babel that God made it impossible for people to understand each other, and that languages were born. We have three languages which do not have a culture in South Africa. The first one is Fanagalo. It is a mixture of isiZulu, isiNdebele and isiXhosa.]

This language is not refined and is not technical.

E dirisiwa mo meepong. Puo ya bobedi ke Setsotsi, se se neng sedirisiwa ke Tony Marais. Sona se kopantshe Senyesemane, Sejeremane, Afrikaans le Sesotho, mme ke puo e e Sa tlhapang. E lebega e nyelela. [Setshego.]

Puo ya boraro ke Se-Afrikanse. Puo e, e agilwe morago ga ngwaga wa 1652. E kopantshe Senyesemane, Sejeremane le Se-Nederland. … (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)

[The second language is tsotsi taal, which was used by Tony Marais. It is a mixture of English, German, Afrikaans and Sesotho, and is also not refined. It seems to be dying. [Laughter.] The third language is Afrikaans. This language was developed after 1652. It is a mixture of English, German and Dutch. It is …]

… well-refined and technical. It does not have its authenticity in Africa …

… gonne ga e na mafoko a dipuo tsa Aforika. Fa o ka tlosa mafoko a Senyesemane, Sejeremane le Se-Nederland, ga go sa tlhole gona le se Afrikaans.

[… because it does not have any African language words. If you take away the English, German and Dutch words, there is no Afrikaans left.]

Puo ya bobedi ke Setsotsi se se kopantsheng Senyesemane, jalo jalo. Batho ba ba tlhamileng Afrikaans jaaka puo, ba supile ge ba na le bokgoni. Tshiamololo e simolotse ge ba gapeletsa Ma-Aforika Borwa go bua Afrikaans, ke ge bašha kwa dikolong ba emelela ka dinao, ba tsoga kgatlhanong le tiriso ya Afrikaans mo dikolong.

Tota ke boammaruri, dinaka tsa go rweswa ga di kgomarele, mme nonyane e e mephuphuto-megolo e iphatlha ka diphuka tsa yona. Baagi ba puo e, a ba tlogele go bana le mephuphuto, gore puo e amogeletsege, le ge setso sa yona se sena medi mo Aforika.

A badirisi ba Afrikaans ba tswele pele ka go aga puo ya bona, mme ba dire jalo kwa ntle le go baka dikgotlhang le go nyenyefatsa dipuo tsa setso sa Aforika. [Nako e fedile] [Legofi.] (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)

[The people who gave birth to Afrikaans as a language showed a remarkable ability. The problem started when they forced all South Africans to speak Afrikaans. The youths then rose against the use of Afrikaans as a medium of instruction in school.

It is really true that if something was not meant for a particular person, it will not suit that person. Furthermore, anybody who acts in an inconsiderate manner creates problems for himself or herself later on. So those who speak this language should show a little sensitivity so that their language can be broadly accepted, even though its culture is not rooted in Africa.

The Afrikaans speakers should continue to develop their language, but they should do so without creating friction between themselves and others or demeaning the indigenous African languages. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]

Mnu M J BHENGU: Baba Sihlalo, namhlanje igane esokeni ngoba uyabona nje ukuthi noma ngubani osukumayo usukuma angene enkundleni agiye ngolimi lwakhe lomdabu. [Ubuwelewele.] Nami ngizogiya ngolwami engaluncela entokazini yakwaSibiya, ngisho phela olwakithi lwale, KwaMthaniya.

Mangisho ukuthi siyakwemukela ukuthi kube khona izilimi eziningi kule lizwe ngoba lokho kusho ukuthi sakha izwe elibumbeneyo. Kodwa masisho futhi ukuthi amankomane yiwo ngempela ngempela enza ukuthi izilimi zethu zibukeleke phansi futhi zenzeleke phansi.

Okukhulu engingakusho ukuthi, noma bakwenza lokho, abakwazanga ukuphumelela ekutheni ziphele nya ngoba sisakwazi thina ukuthi nxa sikhuluma olwethu ulimi sikwazi ukuluqojamisa sikwazi futhi nokumcashisela kwayena lowo impela undlebezikhany’ilanga noma ngabe esethi useyakwazi ukulukhuluma. Uma sengifuna ukuthi angangizwa ukuthi ngithini, ngizothi akangitshele ukuthi uma ngithi siyohlangana esikhaleni kwaNtombela ngisuke ngisho ukuthini? [Uhleko.] Uma ngabe ngithi itshe limi ngothi nkombose kababa ngabe ngisho ukuthini? Ngisho-ke ukuthi kubalulekile ukuthi izilimi zethu zithuthukiswe.

Kodwa-ke nakhu okungafunakali: yilokhu esikubonayo ukuthi izilimi zethu zihuduleka phansi. Ezimayini kukhona le nto ekade ikhulunywa okuthiwa yisifanakalo. Leyo nto yimbi kabi kabi ngoba ayisona isiZulu. Abakithi bomdabu umuntu uye abezwe sebekhuluma sona. Umuntu uthola sebethi: Yiphi yena hamba makoti? Yiphi yena hambile fana? Manje-ke ngabe yini leyo? Ulimi luni lolo? Umuntu uye athole abafana basemalokishini, ngenxa yesimo esikusona, bethi: Ek sê, ek is mncaa vir her''. [Uhleko.] Babuye bethi: Ek sê’’, ngiyachazeka yilo muntu. Umuntu uye angabezwa ukuthi bathini. Babuye futhi bathi: ``Ek sê’’, ibhemile mfowethu. Manje-ke umuntu ngeke azi ngempela ukuthi lulimi luni lolo.

Ngichaza ukuthi yinto ebuhlungu le engicabanga ukuthi nxa sithuthukisa izilimi zethu kudingeka kuqaphelwe ukuthi izilimi zethu zomdabu zingahuduleki phansi ngoba yileyo into ebalulekile. UNgugi wa’ Thiongo ukubeka kahle kabi lokhu, futhi ngiyavumelana naye. Uthi ulimi luyinqola futhi lungugododla wosiko-mpilo nenhlalo-mpilo yomuntu. Leyo nto isho ukuthi uma umuntu engenalo ulimi lwakhe, lowo muntu … is neither fish nor fowl. [Akanhlanzi futhi akankukhu] Ukungabi hlanzi ungabi nkukhu kuyinto umuntu angayazi nje. Ngisho ukuthi uma kwenzeka lokhu, kufanele kwenzeke ngendlela okwenzeka ngayo esiNgisini nasesiBhunwini. Lezo zilimi azikaze zihudulelwe phansi kodwa ezethu izilimi zihuduleka phansi. Lokho-ke kwenziwa ngenhloso ngamankomane ukuze afake usungulo lapha emakhanda ethu ukuze sife, umuntu aphume kuyena ame ngaphandle azibuke. Lapho-ke umuntu usuke engaseyena umuntu - ngolimi nje lulodwa.

Hhiya! Wena weqhawe, ngicabanga ukuthi sengigiyile mina. Sengizobheka kwelakithi-ke ngiyodla incombo. [Ubuwelewele.] [Ihlombe.]

IPHINI LIKASIHLALO WOMKHANDLU KAZWELONKE WEZIFUNDAZWE: Siyabonga baba uBhengu. (Translation of Zulu speech follows.)

[Mr M J BHENGU: Mr Chairperson, today is a wonderful day, because whoever stands up delivers his speech in his mother tongue. [Interjections.] I am going to speak my own language as I learnt it from my mother, a daughter of the Sibaya clan. I am talking about my own language, which is isiZulu.

I would like to mention that we are happy that we have so many languages in this country, because it means that we are building a united nation. We should mention that colonists were the ones who really made it possible for our languages to be marginalised and taken for granted.

The important thing to mention is that although they did that, they did not succeed in eradicating them completely, because we, the speakers of these languages, can speak in such a way that even a white person who is fluent in African languages cannot understand a thing. If I want to confuse a white person I can ask him or her to explain what I mean by saying we will meet at the concavity between Ntombela's hills''. [Laughter.] What do I mean if I saythe stone stands by a stick, Nkombose, the child of my father’’? This means that there is a need for our languages to be developed.

The marginalisation of our languages is not acceptable. In the mines people speak isiFanakalo. IsiFanakalo is bad because it is not a Zulu dialect. Even the Africans speak isiFanakalo. One hears people say: Yiphi yena hamba makoti: Yiphi yena hambile fana?'' Now what is that? What language is it? Because of the conditions under which we live, one hears boys in black townships saying:Ek sê, ek is mncaa vir her’’. [Laughter.] Sometimes they say: Ek sê ngiyachazeka yilo muntu''. One cannot understand what they say. They sometimes say:Ek sê, ibhemile mfowethu’’. Now one cannot tell what language that is.

I think this is a bad thing and we should take it seriously when we develop our languages. Our languages should not be abused. Ngingi wa’ Thiongo puts this very clearly and I agree with him when he says a language is a wagon and the backbone of a person’s social and cultural life. This means that if a person does not have a mother tongue, he is neither fish nor fowl. The situation of being neither fish nor fowl is unknown to anyone. I mean that if this happens it should happen in the same way as it does with English and Afrikaans. Those languages have never been abused, whilst ours have. This was done on purpose by colonists so that we should look down upon ourselves. Without a language a person is nothing.

Oh! Fellow people, I have now finished my speech. I will go to my home area to eat traditional food. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Thank you very much, Mr Bhengu.]

Mrs C NKUNA: Mr Chairperson, I have learnt that there are problems with regard to the translation of my speech into English for the benefit of the House. Nonetheless, I am going to use Tsonga and English. What I really would have liked to use is my language, Tsonga.

Ndzi twa ndzi tsakile swinene namuntlha. Ndza tshemba leswaku lava va nga kona matlhelo yo fana na lomuya va Xifundzankulu xa N’walungu, na le Mpumalanga va tsake ngopfu namuntlha loko wonge ndza vonakala eka TV hi nkarhi wa sweswi ku vona manana wa Mutsonga a yimile a vulavula Xitsonga, hikuva Vatsonga hi van’wana lava endleke leswaku xidimokirasi lexi hi nga ka xona namuntlha xi va kona.

Xo sungula, Xitsonga i ririmi leri nga toloveriwangiki. (Translation of Tsonga paragraphs follows.)

[I feel very happy today. I trust that people from the Northern Province and Mpumalanga would be very happy if I could appear on a TV screen at this moment, and they could see a Tsonga lady standing and deliberating in Xitsonga, because the Tsongas are amongst the people who made this democracy which we have today happen.

In the first place, Xitsonga is not common.]

When I speak, it might sound as if it comes from a foreigner. I am not one.

Ndzi Muchangana. Ndzi Mutsonga, Xitsonga ku nga rin’wana ra tindzimi ta laha Afrika Dzonga.

Kutani, lexi ndzi navelaka ku xi vula, i mayelana na ntirho lowu PanSALB yi faneleke ku wu endla. Xo sungula PanSALB yi nkhensiwa swinene loko yi ta va yi tekile matimba yo vonisisa leswaku tindzimi hinkwato leti ta khumen’we ti twakala. Ha yi nkhensa swinene ku va yi endlile swilo swo fana ni sweswo. (Translation of Tsonga paragraphs follows.)

[I am a Shangaan. I am a Tsonga and Xitsonga is one of the languages in South Africa. What I would like to say concerns a task that should be performed by PanSALB. Firstly, we would like to thank PanSALB for its efforts in ensuring that all eleven languages are used. We would like to thank it for ensuring that such a thing happens.]

There are languages such as English, Afrikaans, isiXhosa, isiZulu, Sesotho, Setswana, etc. These languages are heard and are known, but there are languages such as Xitsonga, Tshivenda, Siswati, isiNdebele, etc, which are seldom heard, if at all.

Kutani hi ta kombela swinene leswaku PanSALB yi tshikelela, yi tiyisisa yi tirha swin’we na SABC ku endla leswaku tindzimi leti ti twakala. Ndzi pfumeleleni nakambe ku vula leswaku eka tindzimi leti ndzi ti vulavuleke, van’wanyana xikombiso, va vula leswaku Vatsonga a va talanga, Vavenda a va talanga, Va-Ndhevele a va talanga. Vanhu lava va kona, va le tindhawini ta vona. Vanhu lava va xava swilo swo fana na ti-TV. Vanhu lava va hakela tilayisense, kambe loko swi fika eka nkarhi wa leswaku vanhu lava va yingisela mahungu, a va ma kumi mahungu hi tindzimi leti vulavuriwaka. (Translation of Tsonga paragraph follows.)

[We request PanSALB to work hand in hand with the SABC in enabling these languages to be used and heard. Allow me also to point out, in respect of the languages I have mentioned, that some people say, for example, that there are few Tsongas, there are also few Vendas, and Ndebeles. These people do exist, and they reside in their areas. These people buy appliances, like televisions and they pay for their licences, but when the time comes to listen to the news, they are unable to listen to the news in their own language.]

A person has to switch to English. After the English news, one tries Afrikaans. After the Afrikaans news, one goes to Sesotho in order to close the gaps. The people on whose behalf I am standing here today request that their languages be given an opportunity or a chance, so that they can listen to the news in their own languages.

With regard to the print media, it really has done nothing or is doing very little. We are only covered in respect of issues that are controversial.

Hi khavhariwa loko ku vulavuriwa hi timhaka ta vuloyi. Loko ku ri na timhaka letinene ta tiprojeke, nhluvuko, na ta ndhavuko swi tele, ntsena a hi khavhariwi. Swilo sweswo a swi hi khomi kahle. A ku ri na minongonoko eka SABC 2, yo fana na Swa Hombe, Zwa Nthesa, minongonoko yo fana na leyi a yi tsakeriwa swinene naswona vanhu a va rhandza minongonoko ya kona swinene. Kambe SABC 2, yi yimisile minongonoko ya kona, xana hikokwalaho ka yini yi yimisiwile?

Ku na minongonoko yo fana na Muvhango, vanhu lavo tala va tsakela ku wu yingisela lowu tlangiwaka hi Tshivenda, kutani loko munhu a twa munhu un’wana a vulavula Tshivenda, a swi hlamarisi ngopfu hikuva lava yingiselaka Muvhango va swi twa leswaku Vavenda na vona va kona.

Ndzi na xikombelo lexi landzelaka. Ndzi kombela leswaku tindzimi leti ndzi ti vuleke, ndzi rhandza ku kongomisa xikombelo xa mina eka PanSALB, na le ka SABC, leswaku tindzimi leti ndzi vulavuleke ha tona a ti landzeleriwi, a ti nyikiwi vutomi, leswaku ti hanya.

Ndzi kombela leswaku hina lava hi nga laha, a hi dyondzeni ku xixima tindzimi ta vanhu van’wana. (Translation of Tsonga paragraphs follows.)

[We are only covered on matters relating to witchcraft. Good news about projects, development and cultural matters is not reported. Such things are discouraging. There were programmes on SABC2, like Swa Hombe, Zwa Nthesa, which were very popular and liked by people, but SABC2 stopped broadcasting the above-mentioned programmes. Why were those programmes discontinued?

There are programmes such as Muvhango, which people are interested in watching, which is in Tshivenda. People are not surprised to hear others speaking Tshivenda, because they hear this language on TV when they watch this story, so they are aware that the Tshivenda language is being featured on TV.

I have the following request. I would like to request PanSALB and the SABC to conduct a follow-up in regard to the above-mentioned languages. These languages should be used on TV so that they are activated and used like other languages on TV.

I request that we who are here should learn to respect other people’s languages.]

There is no language that is above the others. There is no culture that is above others. We only have South Africans in all their diversity.

Kutani a hi ringeteni ku va hi endla leswaku tindzimi leti ta landzeleriwa. Ku na minongonoko ngopfu ngopfu eka SABC 2, mi kuma leswaku nongonoko wa kona, xikombiso, minongonoko ya vana yi haxiwa hi Xinghezi, xana hikwalaho ka yini yi nga haxiwi hi Xitsonga? Kumbe yi haxiwanyana hi Xivenda? Leswaku na vona va ta titwa va ri ekaya. Na vona va ta titwa leswaku i vatshami, vaaki va Afrika Dzonga. A ndzi naveli ku lehisa ngopfu, eka ku vulavula loku ka mina. Ndzi navela ku vula leswaku leswi ndzi swi kombeleke, loko kova leswaku swi ta endliwa, hi ta tsaka ngopfu. Ndzi hetelela hi ku va ndzi nkhensa, livhuwa, siyabonga, thank you, ni leswaku, dankie. (Translation of Tsonga paragraph follows.)

[We should try and see to it that there is a follow-up in so far as these languages are concerned. There are programmes on TV, especially SABC2, for example children’s programmes, which are broadcast in English. Can such programmes not be broadcast in Xitsonga or in Tshivenda? Doing this would enable these people to feel at home. They too would feel that they are citizens of South Africa. I do not want to say a lot about this. I would like to say that I would be happy if my requests were accepted and carried out. Lastly I would like to say ``ha nkhensa, livhuwa, siyabonga, thank you, ni leswaku, and dankie.’’]

Mr M J BHENGU: Chairperson, on a point of order: We do not seem to have interpreters available.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I was not aware of that. Unfortunately you waited until the member had finished her speech. Maybe the Chief Whip of the Council needs to look into the matter.

Nk B THOMSON: Sihlalo, nami ngiyajabula ukuthola ithuba lokuthi ngikhulume ngolimi engaluncela ebeleni lwentombi yakwaNkosi. Umama wami lowo, uMaNkosi. Ulimi lwesintu luyincence yokuncela ubuntu bona obuyisikhali sokulwa nobulwane okumanje bubhubhisa umhlaba ngezindlela ezahlukene.

Ngizothanda ukuthinta kancane ngobuntu ngoba phela yibona obuyindlela yokuphila. Kwalona igama elithi ubuntu limumethe incazelo ekhandwe ngukwakhiwa kwalo. Igama elithi ubuntu lihambisana nempande ethi ``ntu’’ okuyiyona ephethe wonke amagama asitshela ngabantu: umuntu, umntakwenu, intokazi, kanye nobuntu. Maningi amagama achaza ukuthi ulimi yilona olucacisa umqondo wobuzwe banoma yiluphi ulimi abantu balolo limi abacabanga ngalo. Ngaphandle kokwazi ulimi olunjengalolu, awukwazi ukuzisondeza ebuntwini.

Umqondo negama elibhekene nobuntu, ngokungekhona ubuntu - ubulwane. Uma sihlola leli gama sithola ukuthi impande yalo imi egameni elithi ilwa''. Olwayo isilwi futhi konke okunoilwa’’ phakathi kusho amagama anjengo ilwa''isilwane’’ noma ubulwane.'' Kusho ukuthi uma umuntu enza into enale mpande yocezu lwenkulumo ulwa’’ phakathi, wenza ubulwane, okuyinto ephambene nobuntu. [Ubuwelewele.]

Kufanele sikwazi ukubeka imiqondo yethu ngezilimi zethu. Amagama achaza izinto, ngokunjalo nomqondo, ayeqanjwe ngendlela yokuthi abeke umuntu esithombeni esiyiso. Kudinga phela umuntu amxhumanise nemizwa yabantu ngoba wayesungulwe ngalowo mthambo wozwelo olunjalo. Asithathe bona ubuntu obuxhumanisa inzalabantu nayo yonke into engumuntu emhlabeni, kwazise phela yonke leyo nto yazalwa ngumuntu wesifazane. Lesi yisenzo esinobuhlungu bakhona sokuletha umuntu emhlabeni esibizwa ngesilungu ngokuthi ama-labour pains.

Manje-ke uma umuntu esetolika ngesintu uthola ukuthi namadoda asengacishe acabange ukuzisondeza emqondweni wenjula yalo lelo gama ngoba phela ukuthi labour'' kusho umsebenzi kanti ukuthipain’’ kusho ubuhlungu. Uma owesilisa ebethela isipikili odongeni bese eyashweba, azishaye umunwe, uzwa ubuhlungu. Lobu buhlungu ubuthole esebenza, ngakho-ke kusho ukuthi usewazwile ama``labour pains’’. [Ubuwelewele.]

Yingakho-ke kwaba namagama asemqoka akwazi ukwehlukanisa izinhlobo zobuhlungu njengokuletha umuntu emhlabeni. Kuthiwa-ke ama``labour pains’’ yizinseka, ngesiZulu. Akukho ndoda eyoke izwe izinseka empilweni yayo. Leli yigama elikhuthaza ukwazisa nokubaluleka kwabantu besifazane nokubacabangela ngobuntu abethweswa bona ngumdali.

Okuyikona-ke ngukuthi, uma sithanda ukuthi izwe lakithi lingene ligamanxe ntshi esisekelweni sokuthi mazibuye emasisweni okungumgomo we-African Renaissance, osutolikiwe ngesintu sakithi, kufanele senze konke okusemandleni ethu ukuthi siluchaze ulimi lwethu ngendlela efanele. Empeleni ulimi lwesintu lungulimi olumnandi ngendlela emangalisayo uma lukhulunywa ngendlela efanele, kwazise phela abanye ozakwethu baye bakhulume isifanakalo bese bethi leso yisiZulu. Phinde! Akunjalo. Kusuke lokhu kuyizindlela nje ezakhiwa ukuze kuxhumaneke nalabo abangasiqondi kahle isiZulu. Kuseyikho phela ukukhombisa ubuntu bobubele besizwe esimnyama. Mangibonise ngokuthi: Yiphi wena hamba?'' okuchaza ukuthi Uyaphi?’’ kanye nokuthi: Yipha mina lokudla.'' okuchaza ukuthiNgiphe ukudla.’’ kanye namanye amagama.

Ulimi lwesiZulu lusengolunye lwezilimi ezinqabe kakhulu emhlabeni namuhla, futhi ezibukelwa phansi. Amanye amagama olimi lwethu asagqitshwa yizivunguvungu zothuli zesikhathi, aze aba yizingcezu zenkulumo engasekho. Isibonelo nasi: Igama elithi ubisi alisajwayelekile njengentusi, ngakho phela ukuthi ubuntu bethu busagqibekile yizo phela izivunguvungu zothuli.

Sengiyagoqa manje. Ububele busho inkosi yobuntu bonke emhlabeni ngencazelo engudukathole wobuhlakani. Sihlushwa yisikhathi ngoba kungasa siqoba amaqatha ezizathu ezisho into eyodwa. Ekugcineni, masikhuthaze ukwazisa izilimi zethu. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu speech follows.) [Ms B THOMSON: Chairperson, I am glad to have the opportunity to speak the language I learnt from my mother, a daughter of the Nkosi clan. My mother is neé Nkosi. An African language is the source from which one can learn about ubuntu (humanity), which is a weapon to fight the anti-humanism which is now destroying our world in different ways.

I would like to talk about ubuntu because it is a way of life. The word ubuntu'' contains the syllables which describe it. The wordubuntu’’ has the syllable ntu which is found in all terms that describe people, for instance, umuntu [a person], umntakwenu [your lover], intokazi [a young woman] and ubuntu [humanity]. There are a couple of words which show the nationality of any people who speak that language and the way they think. Without knowing a people’s language, one cannot associate with the speakers of that language.

The implication is that the opposite of the word ubuntu'' isubulwane’’ [animalism]. The word ubulwane'' comes from the wordilwa’’ [to fight]. The one who fights is a fighter and all words that contain the syllables ilwa'' denote the element of animalism. This means that if a person does something which has to do with the stemlwa’’ [fight], he is committing an anti-human act, which is against ubuntu. [Interjections.]

We should be able to express our own opinions in our own languages. Words in our languages were created in a way that enables one to pick up the meaning of those words from the way they are structured and pronounced. One should link one’s interpretation of a word to the way people feel about it because most of the words are based on the way people feel about things. Let us look at the word ``ubuntu’’ which links women with other things on earth since everything was birthed by a woman. This is something that has its own painful experience, called labour pains, the pains that are felt by a woman when she gives birth.

If the term labour pains'' is understood within the African context, it will not exclude men. Men can associate themselves with the depth of its meaning because the wordlabour’’ means task and ``pain’’ means discomfort that one feels in one’s body.

When a man hits himself on his finger with a hammer, in an attempt to hit the nail into the wall, he feels the pain. He is injured, which causes him pain while he is working. Therefore, it means that he has experienced labour pains. [Interjections.]

That is why there are important words to explain different pains like the pains that one feels when one gives birth. In Zulu these pains are called ``izinseka’’ [labour pains]. No man will ever experience labour pains. The term encourages the recognition and the importance of women when it comes to the ubuntu that God gave them.

Therefore, if we want our country to be a proud one and one fully engaged in the so-called African renaissance, which has been translated into our African way, we should do everything we can to describe our language in the proper manner.

In fact our language is one of the sweetest ones which is spoken in the proper manner, although some speak isiFanakalo, thinking that they are speaking Zulu. That is not correct. IsiFanakalo was created in order that it might facilitate communication with those who could not speak Zulu. It was one of the ways of showing ubuntu and the mercy of the black people. Let me illustrate this by saying: Yiphi wena hamba'', which means: Where are you going?’’ To say: Yipha mina lokudla'' means:Please give me food’’. There are many other examples of this.

The Zulu language is one of the unpopular and marginalised languages in the world today. Some of the terms in our languages are blocked by the dust of time, they are now figures of a dead speech. Here is an example: The term ``milk’’ is no longer used to refer to a cow’s milk: this is because our own ubuntu has been covered with a storm of dust.

In conclusion, mercy is the king of all ubuntu in the world since it has a broad meaning of wisdom. The timeframe is a problem because we can talk endlessly explaining one thing. Let us encourage people to recognise and respect our languages. [Applause.]]

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, according to the speakers’ list, there is still another speaker to go.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I have a speakers’ list here, do not worry. It is your turn now. It is Mr Van Niekerk. Could you take the floor? [Interjections.]

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Am I the last speaker, Chairperson?

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! No, I am using a speakers’ list, sir. What is your problem, Mr Van Niekerk?

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, my only problem is that the speakers’ list that I have was differently compiled, according to how we … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Thank you, Mr Van Niekerk. I am chairing. The speakers’ list which I am holding is the one which prevails. You are the next speaker. [Interjections.]

Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, as daar nog êrens mense was wat getwyfel het aan veeltaligheid, behoort hulle ná hierdie debat tot ander insigte te kom, want hierdie was heel waarskynlik een van die mees veeltalige debatte wat ooit in die Parlement van Suid-Afrika gehou is, wat juis die gees van die Grondwet weerspieël. Dit is baie belangrik. Alhoewel daar tot op hede nie veel oor Pansat gepraat is nie, het dit ‘n gees van veeltaligheid en trots vir elkeen se eie taal weerspieël, en dit is al ‘n groot stap vorentoe in die taaldebat.

Daar word ook gesê dat die taaldebat ‘n debat van die Afrikaanssprekendes is. Vandag het bewys dat dit nie waar is nie. Daar is bewys dat die swartmense, die sprekers van die ander inheemse tale van Suid-Afrika, net soveel erg het daaraan en net so trots en besorgd is oor hulle eie taal wat afgeskaal word.

Die DP het daarna verwys dat Pansat moet ontbind, en moet saamsmelt met die Kommissie vir die Bevordering en Beskerming van die Regte van Kultuur-, Godsdiens- en Taalgemeenskappe, soos vervat in artikel 185 van die Grondwet. Ek verstaan dit nie in hierdie stadium nie, en ek wil graag hê ons moet meer daaroor praat. Dit is juis ‘n liggaam wat nog nie bestaan nie. Die wetgewing wat verband hou met die kommissie se probleem is juis dat dit geen tande het nie, en Pansat kan bloot deur ‘n wetswysiging meer tande en meer mag kry, terwyl die Grondwet verander moet word om daarvan ontslae te raak. Dit maak nie sin nie, en om saam te smelt met ‘n kommissie wat vir groepregte staan, rym nie met die liberale gedagte van individuele regte nie. Kom ons laat dit egter daar.

Daar is twee ander aspekte wat ek graag wil bespreek. Die eerste een hou daarmee verband dat Pansat se veeltaligheid in Suid-Afrika slegs kan slaag as daar enersyds die politieke wil bestaan om dit te laat slaag, en andersyds as die binnegoed by Pansat bestaan om uitvoering te gee aan sy oortuigings, aanbevelings en bevindings.

Daar is ‘n klomp mense wat hulle daarvoor beywer dat Pansat meer magte moet kry. Ons het ook in hierdie Huis ‘n voorstel ter tafel gelê. Dit lyk egter ook of Pansat self te lam is om te doen wat hy wel kan doen. Daar is nog nie een geval waar die Grondwet oortree is en hulle aanbevelings gedoen het wat daadwerklike optrede van hulle tot gevolg gehad het nie. Daar is nog nie een toetssaak deur Pansat aanhangig gemaak nie.

Nou wil ek sê, as Pansat sy aansien wil behou of wil laat styg, daag ek die raad vandag uit om die burgemeester van Bloemfontein hof toe te neem omdat hy die raad bespotlik gemaak het deur te sê dat hy hom nie aan Pansat se bevindings sal steur nie en dat hy maar Konstitusionele Hof toe geneem kan word. Ek is seker Pansat se voorsitter en raad het genoeg binnegoed om hierdie uitdaging te aanvaar, want daar moet ‘n nuwe kultuur van taalregte in hierdie regstaat van ons geskep word. As gematigde maniere nie werk nie, moet die hof se hulp ingeroep word.

Ek is ook skaam om vandag hier te rapporteer dat Pansat as ‘n raad die afgelope ses jaar nie daarin kon slaag nie om in gesprek te tree met die President, die Adjunkpresident of een van die Ministers van Suid-Afrika oor hierdie belangrike taak wat hulle het. Selfs toe die President in April 1999 aangekondig het dat daar ‘n meganisme in sy kantoor gaan wees vir taalkwessies, het Pansat na vore gekom en aangebied om te help. Die President het nog nie daarop geantwoord nie. Hierdie sake moet reggestel word.

Ek sê vandag baie dankie dat ons hieroor kon praat. As ‘n liggaam wat gebore is uit die Grondwet en ‘n liggaam van die Parlement sal ons moet wys waar ons staan. Ek is seker dat ons dit met hierdie debat doen, en ek wil vir kollega Tony net sê dit is mncaa [lekker] om Afrikaans te praat! [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, if there were any people left somewhere who still doubted multilingualism they should have come to a different understanding after this debate, because this was most probably one of the most multilingual debates that has ever taken place in Parliament, which in fact conveys the spirit of the Constitution. This is very important. Although not much has been said about PanSALB thus far, the debate reflected a spirit of multilingualism and pride in each person’s own language, and as such this is a large step forward in the language debate.

What has been said is that the language debate is the debate of those who speak Afrikaans. Today proved that this is not true. There has been proof that the black people, speakers of the other indigenous languages of South Africa, are just as interested and are just as proud of and concerned about their own languages that are being scaled down.

The DP made reference to the question that PanSALB should dissolve and merge with the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities, as contained in section 185 of the Constitution. I do not understand that at this stage, and I would like us to discuss this further. This is in fact a body that does not as yet exist. The legislation that relates to the problem of the commission is precisely that it has no teeth, and PanSALB can obtain more teeth and power simply by means of an amendment of the law, while the Constitution must be amended to get rid of it. It makes no sense, and to merge with a commission that advocates group rights is not consistent with the liberal idea of individual rights. Let us leave that there, however.

There are two other aspects that I would like to discuss. The first relates to the fact that the multilingualism of PanSALB in South Africa can only succeed if, on the one hand, there is the political will to make it succeed, and on the other, if PanSALB has the substance to put into effect its own convictions, recommendations and findings.

There are a large number of people who are making every effort that PanSALB should obtain greater powers. We in this Council also laid a proposal on the table. However, it seems as if PanSALB itself is too lame to do what it can in fact do. There has not yet been one case where the Constitution has been transgressed and they made recommendations that resulted in real action on their part. Not one test case has been introduced by PanSALB.

I now want to say that if PanSALB wishes to retain or improve its esteem, I challenge the board today to take the mayor of Bloemfontein to court for ridiculing the board by saying that he would not heed PanSALB’s findings and that they were welcome to take him to the Constitutional Court. I am certain that PanSALB’s chairperson and board have sufficient substance to accept this challenge, because a new culture of language rights must be established in this constitutional state of ours. If moderate ways do not work, then the assistance of the court must be obtained.

I am also ashamed to report here today that during the past six years PanSALB, as a board, has not succeeded in entering into discussions with the President, the Deputy President or one of the Ministers of South Africa in respect of this very important task of theirs. Even when the President announced in April 1993 that there would be a mechanism for language issues in his office, PanSALB came forward and offered to assist. The President has not yet replied to this. These issues have to be rectified.

I want to say thank you very much today that we could talk about this. As a body that arose from the Constitution and a body of Parliament we will have to show where we stand. I am certain that we shall do so with this debate, and I just want to say to my colleague Tony that it is ``mncaa’’ [good] to speak Afrikaans! [Applause.]]

Moh G N M PANDOR: Modulasetulo, nna le wena re okamela Ntlo e ngwaga otlhe. Gompieno ke simolola go utlwa batho ba bua dipuo tsa bona, mme ke maketse e letota. Ke ntse ke botsa baemedi ba NCOP gore ke ka lobaka la eng ba sa bue dipuo tsa bona. Gompieno ke ba utlwile. Ke ntse ke nagana gore ga ba kgone go di bua. Jaanong re utlwile gore ba itse go bua dipuo tsa bona. Re batla go bona ba dirisa maleme a mo NCOP, eseng mo dikganetsanong fela. [Legofi.]

Ke batla go boela mo puisanong ya gompieno. Fa ke ntse ke bua, o tla utlwa gore ke leka go bua Setswana, le fa se sa siama thata; Le ga le ga se Sefanakalo! Ke Setswana sa toropo. [Setshego.] (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)

[Mrs G N M PANDOR: Chairperson, you and I preside over this House for the whole year, but today I have, for the first time, listened to people speaking their own languages, and I was pleasantly surprised. I have often asked members of the NCOP why they would not speak their own languages, and today I heard them do that. I thought they could not do it! Now we know that they can, indeed, speak those languages. We want to hear them speak them more often in the NCOP, and not just when there is this kind of debate. [Applause.]

To come back to today’s discussion, members can all hear that I am making an effort to speak Setswana, even though I am not perfect. Nevertheless, I have not been speaking Fanakalo! It is the Setswana that is spoken in the townships. [Laughter.]

If we were to read PanSALB’s annual report …]

… we would see exactly what its role is. All we need to do is to refer to its annual report. We would read there that it is a body that emanates not from the Bill of Rights in the Constitution, but from the early Chapter 1 of the Constitution.

It has a particular role, ie that of making recommendations and promoting awareness of multilingualism, as well as investigating, researching and reporting to the state. Therefore, its role would be to seek to be responsive to those aspects of language promotion that are contained in section 6 of the Constitution.

When we look at the annual report of the Pan South African Language Board, we see, in fact, that it is attempting to conduct research and promote language planning and multilingual language use. We see, for example, that in the Northern Province there have been some projects and activities that seek to encourage the use of languages other than the two powerful languages of South Africa - Afrikaans and English. So, the Pan South African Language Board has been making an attempt.

Allow me to come back to what I would like to talk about today. When one examines the area of language, and if one goes into the sphere of education, one finds there a reflection of a concept that was coined by an educationist, Ivan Illich. The concept was ``the hidden curriculum’’. This concept has become a well-known phrase in the study of education. Like all expressions in educational philosophy, it conceals more than it reveals. It was meant to suggest that the overt curriculum of schools and other establishments where formal education takes place is much less important in the long run than the covert process of subtle repression, which is the real curriculum of educational establishments.

The implication to be drawn from this is that, whether intentional or otherwise, educators may also be in the business of conveying repressive, authoritarian or elite messages. I think it is worth considering this notion in a debate such as this one, especially when the language we tend to use - and which I am using now - is English, the social vehicle par excellence of imperialism.

The majority of children in our country are denied the opportunity to develop their full potential through education, because of our demand that they must spend the bulk of their school life learning through a language that is alienating and foreign. Even worse is that this enforced alienation occurs in formerly disadvantaged schools - which are attended by the majority of our children - and in the new integrated schools that many young black South Africans now attend. It is pleasing to note that at some of these integrated schools we do see the encouragement of the study of previously excluded languages. Firmly linked to the ``hidden curriculum’’ notion is the observation, in my view, that this study of African languages is not done by utilising teachers who are mother-tongue speakers of the particular indigenous languages. [Applause.] What form of message is being sent to learners in such a context? They are being told covertly:

Adults in your community cannot teach your language. They do not have the competence to fit into these new integrated schools.

In other words, English and Afrikaans can be and are taught by native speakers, but African languages can only be taught by non-native speakers of those languages.

We here in Parliament are ourselves guilty of such practice. We tend - over and over again - to use English and Afrikaans to the exclusion of the nine other official languages.

I have observed this in our own NCOP. In fact, throughout the system of education, very little has been done to ensure that multilingualism is part of our functioning. We have become hostage to the view that multilingualism in South Africa is about the status of Afrikaans, and not about the status of the nine previously ignored, indigenous languages of this country.

Clearly, all South Africans have the right to use and to enjoy using their languages. But more urgent and necessary is the affirmation of the previously marginalised and neglected indigenous languages of South Africa. If one looks at PanSALB’s role, this is what PanSALB should be promoting.

While we restate this objective, we also need to be fully aware of the importance of reality in such an undertaking. Clearly, as a country, we do not have the financial resources to pursue equality of treatment for all languages at the same time. This means that we may have to make difficult choices as to how we, as South Africans, pursue multilingual affirmative action. It cannot be done for all nine languages at the same time. I think we need to be realistic and fair - a demand, I am afraid, not many of us are equal to.

We need to be realistic in that we need a universally acceptable and accessible language of communication which will be used overtly for that purpose of universal communication. Then we should have the equal use of the 10 other official languages in a manner that finally recognises that black people speak languages other than English and Afrikaans. This is the challenging task that, I believe, PanSALB has got to begin to respond to - an awareness of the subliminal message, of the hidden curriculum and the active promotion of the previously disadvantaged languages of our country. Unless PanSALB takes on this role, its existence becomes insignificant to our progress in South Africa.

Having said that, I must reiterate that when one looks at the annual report of PanSALB, one does see that, indeed, there are some achievements that this body is striving to make. But of great note and worry are paragraphs that indicate that the primary concern of PanSALB appears to be a response to complaints about the non-use of Afrikaans. The majority of complaints, it says in the report, are about Afrikaans; and yet the mission, the Act and the report constantly refer to multilingualism and the promotion of previously neglected languages. Yet it does not appear to be a focus.

I think we, as the NCOP - as we have just begun today - need to promote the notion that the role of PanSALB is to ensure that those languages that did not enjoy attention previously, do so from today. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

             LOCAL GOVERNMENT: MUNICIPAL ELECTORAL BILL

            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I take the opportunity to welcome the hon the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs into this House, and call upon her to address the House.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Chairperson, I feel somewhat intimidated, rising at this point when everybody has been engaged in a very vibrant and multilingual debate.

Unfortunately, my Bill is in English only. I looked around to see if we had the new coat-of-arms, because I thought I could also ngigiye nami ngolimi olusha [do a traditional dance in the new language] of the new motto of the coat-of-arms. I am very surprised that the NCOP’s coat-of-arms has not yet arrived, so it does not give me the opportunity to … [Interjections.] [Laughter.] I just did not see one, otherwise I would also have expressed myself in that dying or dead language that we have.

After very successful elections in June last year, the IEC issued a note of caution that despite the successes of these particular elections, substantial work still remained to be done in refining the electoral process, as well as in preparing for the first municipal elections under the new constitutional dispensation. Part of this substantial work, I am very happy to say, has already been done, but much still needs to be done. However, it needs to be noted that there is no form of legislation that provides clear guidelines as to how the remaining work has to be done.

The Electoral Act which we passed in 1998, which regulates the elections of both the National Assembly and the provincial legislatures, contains virtually no specific provisions for the municipal elections. The reason is probably that at the time it was passed, the structures and representation of municipal councils were still in the conception stage and we had thought then that we could deal with the elections by way of regulations.

In view of the large-scale adjustments to the Electoral Act that would have been necessary in order to provide for municipal elections, we have opted for an entirely separate piece of legislation to deal extensively with such elections, and that is the Bill that we have before us today.

Allow me, for clarity’s sake, to give a chapter-by-chapter analysis of the Bill I am presenting to you today. This will be important because when we do rise, probably after today, most members will certainly want to explain the legislation to their constituencies. Therefore, I will go into it chapter by chapter, so that we are all at one in understanding the Bill that we are about to pass today.

Chapter 1 deals with the interpretation, the application and the administration of the Bill. Of importance in the definition part of this chapter is the definition of a ballot which, for the purposes of the Bill, should be understood to be referring to a vote. This chapter also proposes to provide for interpretation which gives effect to declarations, guarantees and responsibilities that are enshrined in the new Constitution.

Chapter 2 deals with the voters’ roll. I would like to say that at this point I think most members here have registered and are on the voters’ roll. It also deals with the determination of the election dates. It is in this chapter that provision is made for the utilisation of the national common voters’ roll, compiled and maintained in terms of the Electoral Act of 1998, for the municipal elections. Further proposals are made and these pertain to who it is that may vote, certification of segments of the vote by the chief electoral officer and regulations for a situation where a voter’s particulars do not appear in the certified segment of the voters’ roll, as well as any possible postponement of the elections.

Chapter 3 deals with preparations for the elections. This includes the compilation and publication in a Gazette or a provincial Gazette of the province concerned, of an election timetable when an election is called. It also, amongst other things, caters for the decentralisation of the pre- election registration of parties, the submission of party lists by parties, the establishment of voting stations and mobile voting stations, and the appointment of various officers who will be responsible for managing the voting and the counting processes.

Chapter 4 deals with and is modelled on the provisions of the Electoral Act of 1998 and provides for the accreditation of observers and persons providing voter education.

Chapter 6 deals with the counting procedure, the verification procedure, the objection procedure concerning verification, the sorting of ballot papers and the counting of votes, the results of the count, the determination and declaration of the results of the elections, and objections that have a bearing on the declared results.

The last chapter deals with prohibited conduct. It deals with the enforcement of the electoral code of conduct and the powers to enter private places under certain circumstances, as well as with the amendment of laws. It also deals with the short title of the Bill.

The instances of prohibited conduct referred to in this chapter amount to election fraud. The two schedules at the end of the Bill which I would like to bring to the attention of the House are Schedule 1, which contains the electoral code of conduct based on the Electoral Act of 1998, and Schedule 2, containing the proposed amendments of laws, including the proposed amendments to the Electoral Act of 1998 and the Local Government: Municipal Structures Act of 1998.

The amendment proposed to the Electoral Act of 1998 seeks to bring legal clarity to the expression ``ordinarily resident’’, with regard to persons lawfully imprisoned or detained. The amendment proposed to the Local Government: Municipal Structures Act are of a consequential nature, in order to bring the provisions contained in that Act in line with the proposed Bill.

I commend this Bill to members. It is a very balanced Bill. I am glad that the IEC is here with us today, because they drafted this very good Bill. It will ensure a smooth election and I urge all parties to support this. It is for our own good. [Applause.]

Ms L JACOBUS: Chairperson, I will not use the five minutes allocated to me, and I hope this will be taken into account for future debates that we might have in the House when one runs short of time. [Laughter.]

Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister and members, the Bill before us today deals, to a large extent, with logistical and technical preparations for the upcoming local government elections. The Deputy Minister has just given an overview of what it deals with. It also identifies guidelines for all role-players by which the elections are to be conducted.

I am sure that we will all agree that logistics and technicalities are sometimes very necessary in order to improve the quality of life of our people. And improving the quality of life of our people means the provision of quality services like education, health care, housing, water, electricity, etc.

Legislation and policies enacted at national and provincial levels would come to zero if there were no one to deliver these services at a local level. Thus, it is of vital importance that the sphere of local government is strengthened to perform this duty with the utmost of vigour to the best of its ability. The introduction of this Bill to Parliament, therefore, sets out the rules by which the local government elections will be conducted in a corruption- free manner, and the subsequent setting up of structures that will drive the process of a speedy delivery of services to our people.

The Bill ensures that every political party has an equal opportunity to select suitable candidates in the wards where they reside and which they wish to contest. With the vital step of ward demarcation boundaries being drawn up and finalised by the Demarcation Board almost behind us, it means that very shortly all voters will know exactly where to go to cast their votes. This Bill, therefore, complements this process, in that it outlines uniform criteria and standards for any person or party that wishes to participate in the new structures of local government, as set out by the Local Government: Municipal Structures Act.

While working our way through the different clauses contained in this Bill, it became clear that lessons had been learned from our previous experiences in the previous elections which we have had to date. Because the Electoral Act of 1998 did not cater for the specific needs of local government elections in its new format - and the Deputy Minister alluded to this fact

• it became necessary to craft this Bill before us today. And I am sure other members will probably go into details of the Bill before us.

We believe that, through the initiative of the IEC, the Department of Home Affairs, the Department of Provincial and Local Government and the portfolio and select committee process, we have managed to look holistically at these local government elections, and we hope that we have managed effectively to anticipate and deliberate on the needs and constraints of Government, voters, and candidates alike.

We believe we have done our best in spite of the time constraints.

Before concluding, I would like to thank the IEC - I see some of the commissioners are here: Commissioner Van der Merwe and Adv Lambani - and the Department of Home Affairs for their time, patience and diligence throughout the process of public hearings and the very lengthy deliberations, discussions and interrogations by the portfolio committee and the select committee. Their commitment and hard work are, indeed, noteworthy.

In conclusion, I would move that this House vote in favour of this Bill with its proposed amendments and accept the committee report as contained in the ATC of 21 June 2000. [Applause.]

Ms E C GOUWS: Madam Chairperson, hon members, we have a very big responsibility on our shoulders in this House. We are debating a Bill which will affect the rights of millions of people. The DP was part of a team which spent hours deliberating every clause and every sentence of this Bill. At the Southern African elections forum, which I attended in Windhoek, all participants agreed that while elections symbolised democracy, the electoral process is a very important component of the implementation of democracy.

Some fundamental factors determine the integrity of elections. These factors are the values expressed in the highest law of the land, such as inclusiveness, representivity, accountability and transparency. These values must be seen to be at work in the election process. Furthermore, the body that manages election arrangements must be impartial, independent and above partisan interests.

As agb lede dan bogenoemde in gedagte hou, sal hulle verstaan waarom die DP probleme het met sommige van die klousules in die wetsontwerp. Die klousules waarteen ons beswaar maak, kan dit vir die Onafhanklike Verkiesingskommissie onmoontlik maak om regtig ‘n vrye en regverdige verkiesing te verseker.

Ek wil graag ‘n paar van hierdie klousules noem. Volgens klousule 7 mag ‘n persoon op die laaste nippertjie aandring om te stem deur slegs ‘n beëdigde verklaring by die voorsittende beampte in te handig. Dit skep ruimte vir ongerymdhede, en selfs ook vir bedrog. Klousule 23 handel oor stembriewe. Dit is vir ons van kardinale belang dat stembriewe genommer moet word. Dit vergemaklik die proses van rekonsiliasie en skakel daarmee die oorambisieuse kieser ook uit.

Dit is natuurlik ‘n baie hartseer storie dat net 47% van die fondse wat die Onafhanklike Verkiesingskommissie aangevra het, bewillig is. Die gebrek aan fondse veroorsaak die afskaling van noodsaaklikhede, soos byvoorbeeld stembriewe met nommers, kieseropleiding en die registrasieproses. Dit is ook vir die DP baie onwaarskynlik dat volgnommers op die stembriewe die drukkoste van die briewe kan verhoog vanaf R50 miljoen na R100 miljoen, soos die OVK aan ons verslag gedoen het. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[If hon members keep the above in mind, they will understand why the DP has a problem with some of the clauses in the Bill. The clauses we object to can make it impossible for the Independent Electoral Commission really to ensure a free and fair election.

I would like to mention a few of these clauses. According to clause 7 a person may insist on being allowed to vote at the last moment by only submitting an affidavit to the presiding officer. This leaves room for anomalies and even for fraud. Clause 23 deals with ballot papers. It is of vital importance to us that ballot papers must be numbered. This facilitates the process of reconciliation and also eliminates the over- ambitious voter.

Of course it is very sad that only 47% of the funds which the Independent Electoral Commission requested, have been voted. The lack of funds is causing the scaling down of necessities, for example ballot papers with numbers, voter education and the registration process. The DP also considers it highly unlikely that consecutive numbers on ballot papers could increase the printing costs of the papers from R50 million to R100 million, as the IEC reported to us.]

Another area in which we have a principled objection with the Bill is that of the scrapping of both clauses 55 and 56, which would have allowed for special votes. Although the Bill was quite restrictive in awarding special votes, we believe, as did the state law adviser, that special votes should be extended to all voters who will be away from their voting stations on election day. We cannot see why having a day for special votes should be a logistical nightmare, as stated by the IEC. It must rather be seen as a dress rehearsal in terms of which problems can be identified and solved before the big day.

We are in agreement with the majority of the clauses, but because of the shortcomings I have mentioned the DP cannot support the Bill.

We voted for many millions of rand for all sorts of activities in our recent budget. We strongly object to the fact that not enough could be found for such an important event as the local government elections. South Africa is seen as the showpiece of democracy in Africa. Are we allowing financial support to tarnish this image?

Mr P G QOKWENI: Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister and members, we support the Bill in recognition, inter alia, of a persistent view that, as a new democracy, we have laid down a sound foundation of policies affecting various spheres of life. But we still need to act with more unwavering and unstinted vigour to ensure that their implementation delivers an improved quality of life. This raises the significance of local government as the door of service delivery and as an institution that is appropriately located in the midst of the people for service delivery together with them.

As part of the new democracy, which aims to transform South Africa from a platform of racial exclusion to that of integration, we want to continue identifying with the fledgling democracy as it further seeks to obviate the emergence of a struggle between those of us in the corridors of Parliament, boardrooms and offices in the public and private sectors on the one hand, and the poorest of our fellow men and women, who constitute the grass-roots in the urban and rural environs, on the other.

This legislation aims to establish a legitimate institution for the governance of local communities, provided, of course, it obtains in circumstances of free and fair elections as provided for in terms of section 42, thus giving the Government easy access to the communities and accelerating the pace of delivery. I concede that the Bill does not spell out the levels at which the IEC will be funded, but it is not the responsibility of the Bill to pronounce on such details, nor can it be faulted on matters extraneous to its content. The reality is that there are many demands from the various sectors of the economy, amongst them education, health and welfare, for a fair share of funding.

However, we strongly advise that the IEC be more adequately funded, so that poor funding does not compromise the election outcome due to an inability to provide voter education, poor quality ballot papers, ballot books that do not lend themselves easily to reconciliation in times of dispute and an inadequate supply of mobile stations. It is again the illiterate, especially those victims of rural poverty situated in the vast tract of sparsely populated administrative areas, who will suffer the worst consequences.

Lastly, we pay tribute to the various stakeholders - IEC, Home Affairs, portfolio and select committees, legal advisers, etc - for the valuable contribution they have made to the clarity and quality of this Bill. The fact that regulations will not be tampered with a month before the elections adds to the enrichment of the democratic process. [Applause.]

Mr J HORNE: Chairperson, Deputy Minister and hon members of the Council, by now it ought to be abundantly clear to us that the Electoral Act of 1998 mainly regulates the elections of the National Assembly and provincial legislatures, and hardly contains any provisions to regulate the municipal elections.

The Local Government: Municipal Electoral Bill before us addresses this shortcoming in the Electoral Act and attempts to cover all the important aspects that are needed to regulate municipal elections. The Bill will ensure the smooth running of the municipal elections and will also result in a fair election. Although it has to be accepted that the Bill might not satisfy everybody, every attempt was made by the portfolio and the select committees, as well as the IEC and the Department of Home Affairs, to address all aspects thereof.

In this regard, the chairpersons of the portfolio and select committees are to be congratulated on the manner in which they led and conducted the meetings over which they presided when this very important legislation, which will play an important part in the forthcoming municipal elections, was discussed. The New NP supports the Bill.

Mr M D DIKOKO (Salga): Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister, permanent and special delegates in the House, I rise this afternoon in this Chamber, first of all, to bring you fraternal greetings from the organised local government. Secondly, I would like to register Salga’s appreciation for having been accorded this opportunity to speak on the occasion of the debate on this special Bill.

The local government elections, which we all hope will be held in November this year, will mark the end of the historic term of our country’s first generation of democratically elected local government. We are talking in terms of both the preinterim and the interim phases. Simultaneously, it will usher in a second generation of local government. Thus the election will give the people of this country an opportunity to express and exercise their democratic right by once again electing the leaders of their choice at a local level.

It is common knowledge that, in the whole universe, to conduct successful elections which are free and fair is a massive task. The credibility and legitimacy of elections are very important aspects of the election process. This is the context within which we are here today, to have an input with regard to this municipal election Bill. We are all aware that the Electoral Act of 1998 that regulates the National Assembly and provincial legislatures contains virtually no specific provision for municipal elections. Therefore, this Bill establishes clear procedures on how the coming municipal elections must or will be conducted.

We, as Salga, really find the provision of this legislation elaborate and very comprehensive in outlining the procedures. I would like to thank the Deputy Minister for going even further and making sure that we know it chapter by chapter, in order that we may refer to it when dealing with whatever problem may arise, ie as regards specifically where to go and have a look.

This House has carried through its mandate in ensuring that the Bill is enacted on time, to remove uncertainty as to whether the elections are on the cards or not. The biggest challenge now remains with the IEC to effectively implement this legislation. The IEC has done its very best in the past to deliver successful elections. With this law in place, we hope that their work will be simplified and that the electoral process will enjoy the highest credibility possible amongst the people as being free, fair and honest with its results being respected by all participants.

Salga views this Bill as one of the distinguishing features of our young, yet flourishing democracy. It fits in squarely measured terms within the architectural design of the South African democratic system. Now is the time for this Bill to become the law. As organised local government, we support the Bill. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Nkk J N VILAKAZI: Sihlalo ohloniphekile, abahlonishwa uNgqongqoshe wethu nePhini likaNgqongqoshe kanye nomKhandlu wonke, ngifuna ukuqala ngokuncoma umhumushi wesiZulu obehumusha inkulumo kaMnu Bhengu nenkulumo kaNkk Thompson. Ngibona sengathi uqanduqandu. Uyasazi isiZulu, wasincela. Ngithi kuye: Phambili ndoda yamadoda. Muhle umsebenzi wakhe.

Ukuba ukhetho lufana nokuhlolwa kwezingane zesikole, lapho umuntu ethola umphumela wakhe ngokusebenza kwakhe, ngabe ngithi kuhle kuqondile, akudingi koniwa. Kodwa, ngiyaphinda futhi ngithi kodwa, lunamathizethize akhona.

Amanye ala mathizethize avezwa yindlela olusuke lusingathwe ngayo ukusuka phansi kuya ekugcineni. Thina be-IFP, siyokujabulela ukuthola izinto eziqondene nokhetho zilungisiwe. Abantu kufanele baqale ukukhetha kanyekanye kungekho izinto ezingakalungi njengoba kuvamise ukuthi kwenzeke, ikakhulu ezindaweni zasemakhaya.

Kuningi kakhulu okuye konakale lapha. Ngethemba ukuthi abe-IEC bazozama ukuqikelela ukuthi lokhu esivamise ukukhala ngakho uma kunokhetho, akwenzeki kulolu khetho. Uhlu lwabavoti kufanele lube seluqonde nse ngaphambi kokhetho. Iziteshi zokuvota kufanele kube yizo lezo ezaziwa ngumphakathi, zingaguqulwa isigubhukane.

Kuningi engingabe ngiyakusho kodwa kufika lapho ngibindwa khona uma ngikhuluma ngokhetho. UmThetho-sivivinywa osezithebeni thina be-IFP siyawusekela. Kodwa, izixwayiso engizishilo kudingeka ziqikelelwe. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu speech follows.)

[Ms J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, honourable House, our hon Minister and his deputy, firstly I would like to thank the interpreter who has just interpreted the speeches of Mr Bhengu and Ms Thompson. I am quite certain that he is an expert in isiZulu. I would like to tell him that he must keep it up, his work is good.

If elections were like school examinations in which one gets the result according to the effort one has put in, I would have said that they were fine. Elections have got their own ambiguities.

Ambiguities become evident in the way elections have been conducted from beginning to end. We in the IFP will be happy if all the preparations for the coming elections are in order. All people should vote at the same time, when everything is still in order as problems always crop up in the rural areas.

Many things get mixed up. I hope that the IEC will ensure that the problems that we usually face during elections are avoided this time. The voter’s roll should be in order before the elections. The polling stations should be the ones that people know. They should not be changed suddenly.

There is a lot that I should say here, but it is just that I get stuck when I talk about elections. The IFP supports the Bill that is on the table. However, care should be taken regarding the point that I have just warned against. [Applause.]]

Mr B WILLEM: Chairperson, all the speakers who spoke today stood up when delivering their speeches, and I am the only one who will deliver mine from a wheelchair. I believe that this occasion is another of those monumental moments in time that will be recorded in the annals of our history, and will be remembered with pride for generations to come.

The reason for celebration is that this Bill is the last in a series of preparatory legislation designed to ensure that our November 2000 local government elections run without a hitch. This Bill, together with the Local Government: Municipal Structures Act, the Local Government: Municipal Systems Bill and the infrastructural preparedness of the IEC and Home Affairs ought to facilitate an incident-free municipal elections.

All the local government Bills are aimed at ensuring an open and transparent election process. The Local Government: Municipal Structures Act shaped and designed municipalities into different categories and described electoral systems to be used, so that local government could become more transparent, accountable and people friendly. The Local Government: Municipal Systems Bill then followed, and will offer the opportunity to all our people to engage in public participatory activities into the affairs of local government. Here, accountability to the people will be the key concern of all municipalities.

The Bill before the House is also geared towards a transparent and open electoral process. It takes the already established election processes - established in the Electoral Act of 1998 - and adjusts them to the formulated legislation geared specifically for the new municipal structures, which had not been addressed in the Electoral Act.

This Local Government: Municipal Electoral Bill has been closely scrutinised all political parties and by all interested stakeholders across the political divide. With the exception of a few clauses, I am convinced that we have the support of all political parties. Of course, what follows the passage of this Bill is the serious politicking and character assassinations that other political parties - and not the ANC - will engage in during the next few months.

Hopefully all of us will develop thick skins and focus on getting the best person for the job of delivering to all our people, with special bias to those communities who still live under adverse social, economical and environmental conditions.

As the ANC, we want to ensure that those whom we voted into political positions at local government level do their work. The ANC endorses this Bill wholeheartedly. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank all the parties that have supported the Bill. I am happy that we have come to this point, as this Bill will now enable the IEC to make all the necessary preparations without any delay.

I was glad that the hon Goqweni of the UDM pointed out the essential difference between the financing of the process of the election and the content of the Bill, which seems to have been completely lost on the DP. We have taken note of the concerns surrounding the financing of the IEC and this matter will be attended to. We would like to assure the House that we have looked into the issue of special votes and after months of discussions we came to the considered conclusion that this would not be possible. It was not a decision taken very lightly.

We have also taken note of the IFP’s concerns about the previous shortcomings of the IEC in the conducting of elections. I am glad that the IEC is here and I believe that they understood the message very well. If they did not, as we go out for tea I will explain to them what the hon member was complaining about. These matters will be attended to.

Finally, it warms my heart that the Bill received such overwhelming support in the NCOP. We are used to having the dissenting voice of the DP. They have always dissented. We have nevertheless always gone ahead, despite their dissent, and we have had excellent elections in the past. We would like to thank the IEC and members for all the support they have given us. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

                    IDENTIFICATION AMENDMENT BILL

            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

Order disposed of without debate.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL SERVICES -SADC HEALTH PROTOCOL

Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Madam Chairperson, hon members, firstly, I am wondering whether somebody has coined some sort of a Fanakalo version of my surname. I would always object to that, because everybody’s surname has a historical heritage and pride.

It is always in the best interests of any country to be concerned about the health of its population, because without a healthy population we cannot even start to address the socioeconomic and environmental needs of our nation.

The protocol in front of us today sets out to extend our concerns to the entire Southern African Development Community, and at the same time it allows us to join all the other sectors that were established under the Southern African Development Treaty.

We know that diseases have no boundaries, nor do they discriminate against any person or nation. If we were to create artificial borders between nations that could potentially share medical resources, research and vaccines among themselves, then we would, needlessly, be putting all the citizens at risk.

The recent floods in Mozambique taught us a very important lesson in regional co-operation, which has always been part of our collective African heritage. Together, as the SADC region, we can ensure that all nations in our fold become their brother’s keeper, especially in the health sector.

We want to encourage all member states to share their economic wealth equally within the health sector, to ensure that our struggle against the Aids pandemic and all other communicable diseases becomes a struggle that can easily be won through collective co-operation. In conclusion, South Africa is currently the co-ordinator of the SADC health sector and is discharging its responsibilities excellently. Lastly, I encourage this House to ratify this protocol. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Report adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

  CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICES -
                  COSPAS/SARSAT NOTIFICATION LETTER

Ms P C P MAJODINA: Chairperson, honourable House, the Select Committee on Public Services, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the letter of notification of association with the international Cospas/Sarsat programme as a ground settlement, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approves the said letter on the following grounds.

As a signatory to the Safety of Life at Sea Convention, the Government of South Africa, through the Department of Transport, undertook to provide certain services, such as maritime safety information and search and rescue. Cospas is one such service.

The purpose of the agreement is, inter alia, to ensure the long-term operation of the Cospas/Sarsat system, and to provide distress alert and location data from the system to the international community in support of search and rescue operations on a non-discriminatory basis; secondly, to co- operate with other national authorities and relevant international organisations in the operation and co-ordination of the system.

Since its installation just over a year ago, the local alert data has aided a number of search and rescue missions. The latest was the Taiwanese MV Chwan Y1 No.1 on 14 May 2000, where the Republic of South Africa saved 23 lives. It is against this background that we recommend that this Council approve this notification. !ke e:/ xarra //ke. [Laughter.]

Debate concluded.

Report adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

        LOCAL GOVERNMENT: CROSS-BOUNDARY MUNICIPALITIES BILL

                (Consideration of Bill and of Report)

Order disposed of without debate.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

                    TAXATION LAWS AMENDMENT BILL

            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I must indicate to hon members that the Minister of Finance has sent me a letter, indicating an apology for not being here for this particular order. He is, as you would know, attending the meeting of Finance and Trade Ministers in Durban. I did receive a formal apology, which he asked me to convey to members.

Order disposed of without debate.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

              SOUTH AFRICAN COUNCIL FOR EDUCATORS BILL

            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

Order disposed of without debate.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                          FAREWELL MESSAGE

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Hon members, before I adjourn the House, I must thank you for your work during this session. We have completed a very heavy load of work, and I think our committees have done very well. I believe our plenaries have worked extremely well and I know members are now going off for a well-deserved leave period. I repeat members: you have a leave period which will be followed by a constituency work period where you will be in your constituency offices. These have been published in the media and, therefore, the public knows where to find you after your well-deserved leave and resting time.

I urge hon members to arrive home safely. Take care if you are on the road. You return in August, ie only those committees that will have legislation before them. A timetable of the programme for the next session has been distributed and is in your pigeonholes. It will help guide you, so that you are able to plan. We hope that during the period that we are in recess, we will have an indication as to what the election date is going to be, which will then allow us to draw up the framework for the whole year. I wish you a good rest, safe journey home and a worthwhile constituency work period.

The Council adjourned at 16:07. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                       WEDNESDAY, 21 JUNE 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS: National Council of Provinces:

1. The Chairperson:

 Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:


Bills passed by National Assembly on 20 June 2000 and transmitted for
concurrence:


 (a)    Identification Amendment Bill [B 33 - 2000] (National Assembly -
      sec 75) - (Select Committee on Social Services - National Council
      of Provinces).


 (b)    Local Government: Municipal Electoral Bill [B 35B - 2000]
      (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Select Committee on Social
      Services - National Council of Provinces).


 (c)    Local Government: Cross-boundary Municipalities Bill [B 37B -
      2000] (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Select Committee on Local
      Government and Administration - National Council of Provinces).


 Bill amended by National Assembly on 20 June 2000 and sent back for
 reconsideration in accordance with Rules 202-204:


 (a)    South African Council for Educators Bill [B 26D - 2000]
     (National Council of Provinces - sec 76) - (Select Committee on
     Education and Recreation - National Council of Provinces).

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Select Committee on Finance on the Taxation Laws Amendment Bill [B 38 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 77), dated 21 June 2000:

   The Select Committee on Finance, having considered and examined the Taxation Laws Amendment Bill [B 38 - 2000] (National Assembly

   • sec 77), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a Money Bill, reports that it has concluded its deliberations thereon.

2. Report of the Select Committee on Social Services on the Local Government: Municipal Electoral Bill [B 35B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 21 June 2000:

   The Select Committee on Social Services, having considered the subject of the Local Government: Municipal Electoral Bill [B 35B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

3. Report of the Select Committee on Social Services on the Identification Amendment Bill [B 33 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 21 June 2000:

   The Select Committee on Social Services, having considered the subject of the Identification Amendment Bill [B 33 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

4. Report of the Select Committee on Social Services on the SADC Health Protocol, dated 21 June 2000:

   The Select Committee on Social Services, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Protocol on Health in the Southern African Development Community, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Protocol.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Select Committee on Local Government and Administration on the Local Government: Cross-boundary Municipalities Bill [B 37B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 21 June 2000:

   The Select Committee on Local Government and Administration, having considered the subject of the Local Government: Cross- boundary Municipalities Bill [B 37B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

2. Report of the Select Committee on Education and Recreation on the South African Council for Educators Bill [B 26D - 2000] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76), dated 21 June 2000:

   The Select Committee on Education and Recreation, having considered the South African Council for Educators Bill [B 26D - 2000] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76), amended by the National Assembly and referred to the Committee, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

3. Report of the Select Committee on Public Services on the COSPAS/SARSAT Notification Letter, dated 21 June 2000:

   The Select Committee on Public Services, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Letter of Notification of Association with the International COSPAS/SARSAT Programme as a Ground Segment Provider, referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Letter of Notification. Report to be considered.

                    THURSDAY, 22 JUNE 2000
   

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister for Provincial and Local Government:

 Report and Financial Statements of the Training Board for Local
 Government Bodies for 1998-99, including the Report of the Auditor-
 General on the Financial Statements for 1998-99 [RP 66-2000].

1. The Minister of Public Works:

 Tiro - Community Based Public Works Programme Publication, June 2000,
 Volume One Number One.

1. The Minister of Labour:

 Report and Financial Statements of the National Economic Development
 and Labour Council for 1999-2000.