TUESDAY, 23 MAY 2000 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 10:08.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I trust that the member whose cellphone rang will have turned it off, and will make a suitable donation to a deserving charity.

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I wish to give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That the Council - (1) notes with dismay the appalling conditions under which mothers-to-be are treated at the Retreat Obstetric Unit;

(2) notes that because of theft and a lack of funds, maternity wards have been left filthy and under-equipped;

(3) notes that as a result of these appalling conditions patients are now being forced to give birth on torn, blood-stained mattresses and are being told to bring their own bedding;

(4) notes that some of the mothers-to-be deliver on torn mattresses of which the plastic has peeled off, exposing the foam;

(5) notes the unhealthy use of newspapers when delivering patients, the shortage of linen and other equipment necessary in a maternity unit, like blood-pressure apparatus; and

(6) therefore appeals to the Department of Health to attend to this shocking and dehumanising work situation, where a healthy service has turned into a high-risk service.

Mr K D S DURR: Madam Chair, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That the Council -

(1) calls upon the Minister of Trade and Industry -

   (a)  urgently to come up with guidelines for acceptable interest
       rates in line with free-market principles for the micro-lending
       industry; and
   (b)  to liaise with the Financial Services Board and the Banking
       Council of South Africa; and

(2) requests the Minister to hold discussions with the Minister of Finance in order to establish whether the Financial Services Board, rather than the Department of Trade and Industry, would not be the more appropriate and effective regulator of the micro-lending industry.

Mev A M VERSFELD: Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting sal voorstel:

Dat die Raad -

(1) kennis neem van die feit dat -

   (a)  Ministers nie betyds antwoord op skriftelike vrae wat aan hulle
       gestel word nie; en


   (b)  die regte antwoorde nie by die regte vrae verstrek word nie; en

(2) versoek dat -

   (a)  vrae wat vir beantwoording aan die departement deurgegee word
       deur die Ministers gekontroleer moet word;


   (b)  antwoorde eerlik, opreg en deursigtig beantwoord moet word; en


   (c)  die kwessie van foutiewe of misleidende inligting as 'n saak van
       dringende openbare belang in die Raad bespreek word. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mrs A M VERSVELD: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting I shall move:

That the Council -

(1) notes the fact that -

   (a)  Ministers do not reply in time to written questions that are put
       to them; and


   (b)  the right replies do not go with the correct questions; and

(2) requests that -

   (a)  questions that are forwarded to the department for reply should
       be checked by the Ministers;


   (b)  questions should be answered honestly, frankly and
       transparently; and


   (c)  the matter of faulty or misleading information is discussed in
       the Council as a matter of urgent public importance.]

Mnr C ACKERMANN: Voorsitter, ek gee kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting van die Raad sal voorstel:

Dat die Raad -

(1) kennis neem van die ernstige afmetings van swak administrasie in Mpumalanga;

(2) ‘n beroep op die premier van daardie provinsie doen om die volle verantwoordelikheid te aanvaar vir wat tans in sy regering plaasvind; en

(3) die premier en die huidige LUR’e van Mpumalanga versoek om by ‘n spesiale debat in hierdie Raad verslag te doen oor ongerymdhede, korrupsie, magsvergrypinge en uitspattige lewenstyle wat daartoe gelei het dat ‘n beter lewe vir almal in hierdie provinsie nou ‘n mite geword het. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr C ACKERMANN: Chairperson, I give notice that at the next sitting of the Council I shall move:

That the Council -

(1) notes the alarming proportions of poor administration in Mpumalanga;

(2) appeals to the Premier of that province to accept full responsibility for what is currently taking place in his government; and

(3) requests the Premier and the current MECs of Mpumalanga, at a special debate in this Council, to report on irregularities, corruption, abuse of power and extravagant lifestyles which have led to a better life for all in this province now having become a myth.]

Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting van hierdie Raad sal voorstel:

Dat die Raad -

(1) met teleurstelling daarvan kennis neem dat die kontrak vir die vervaardiging van die Springbokrugbytruie aan ‘n maatskappy in Spanje toegeken is;

(2) kennis neem dat hierdie handeling ‘n herhaling is van die vroeëre toekenning van ‘n kontrak van Lugmaghemde aan ‘n maatskappy in China; en

(3) sterk voel dat daar geen rede is dat die tekstielbedryf van Suid- Afrika, wat reeds onder druk is deur onder meer arbeidswetgewing, hierdeur ondermyn word en dat werkverliese veroorsaak word nie. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of this Council I shall move:

That the Council -

(1) notes with disappointment that the contract for the manufacturing of the Springbok rugby jerseys has been awarded to a company in Spain;

(2) notes that this action is a recurrence of the earlier awarding of a contract for Air Force shirts to a company in China; and

(3) feels strongly that there is no sound reason for the textile industry in South Africa, which is already under pressure from, inter alia, labour legislation, to be undermined and for job losses to be incurred because of this.]

Mnr P A MATTHEE: Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting van die Raad sal voorstel:

Dat die Raad -

(1) kennis neem van die inhoud van ‘n gesamentlike verklaring van die Hoofregter, regter Ismail Mahomed, en die President van die Konstitusionele Hof, regter Arthur Chaskalson, na aanleiding van kritiek op die regbank deur mnr Smuts Ngonyama, hoof van die ANC se leierskantoor, oor die Boesak-verhoor;

(2) van mening is dat ongeregverdigde en onredelike aanvalle op die integriteit van die regbank nie die proses van transformasie aanhelp nie, maar dat dit die grondwetlike rol van die regbank ondermyn, mense se vertroue in howe se beslissings wegkalwer en die regpleging as beroep skade berokken; en

(3) die standpunt van die gemelde regters ondersteun en ‘n beroep op alle burgers doen om hulle standpunt te eerbiedig. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That the Council -

(1) notes the content of a joint statement by the Chief Justice, Justice Ismail Mahomed, and the President of the Constitutional Court, Justice Arthur Chaskalson, relating to the criticism of the judiciary by Mr Smuts Ngonyama, chief of the ANC leaders’ office, concerning the Boesak trial;

(2) is of the view that unjustified and unreasonable attacks on the integrity of the judiciary do not promote the process of transformation, but that they undermine the constitutional role of the judiciary, erode people’s confidence in the findings of courts and harm the administration of justice as a profession; and

(3) supports the standpoint of the aforementioned justices and appeals to all citizens to honour their standpoint.]

CONGRATULATIONS TO UNDER 23 SOCCER TEAM AND NEW SPRINGBOK TEAM AND HOPE FOR SPEEDY CONCLUSION TO KING INQUIRY

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr N M RAJU: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council - (1) congratulates the South African under 23 soccer team, the Amaglug- glug, on its convincing victory against the All Whites of New Zealand, thus setting up an exciting follow-up match this weekend in South Africa;

(2) congratulates the new Springboks selected to represent South Africa in the forthcoming international matches against Canada and England, and specially congratulates André Vos on his elevation to captaincy; and

(3) wishes the Justice King inquiry into match-fixing in cricket to be conducted speedily in the interests of all.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

               SCHOOL BUS ACCIDENT IN THE EASTERN CAPE

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I move without notice: That the Council -

(1) expresses its shock and disbelief over the Eastern Cape bus crash which occurred on Sunday afternoon between Mount Ayliff and Mount Frere;

(2) notes that -

   (a)  a bus transporting schoolchildren from a soccer match in Mount
       Ayliff overturned and plunged down an embankment on the
       notorious Umzimvumbu stretch of road between the towns Mount
       Ayliff and Mount Frere; and


   (b)  four boys died at the scene and one in hospital, increasing the
       total number of children who died in the incident to five;

(3) extends the same condolences to all the families of those unfortunate students who have fallen victim to this incident;

(4) strongly urges the Minister of Transport to take the matter under full investigation and to issue a report as to the circumstances which led to the accident; and

(5) is of the opinion that there must be stricter measures with regard to the conditions and roadworthy tests applied to buses.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

CONGRATULATIONS TO WORKFORCE OF EASTERN CAPE-PORT ELIZABETH COCA-COLA PLANT

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr Z S KOLWENI: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council extends its heartfelt congratulations to the entire workforce of the Eastern Cape-Port Elizabeth Coca-Cola plant for achieving a prestigious award as the world’s best bottling plant of the century.

Thank you, you are a good example. Keep it up!

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! It seems to me the workers do deserve some applause from hon members. I see members are not keen to applaud the workers of South Africa for a productivity award. [Applause.]

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

              IDENTIFICATION OF BOMB BY STREETCHILDREN

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr K D S DURR: Madam Chair, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) salutes the bravery of the three streetchildren in the Green Point- Sea Point area that identified to the authorities a live pipe bomb that was ticking away and that was about to explode, for their public spiritedness and brave example that allowed the police to disarm the bomb and thus to save lives; and

(2) calls upon the Minister of Safety and Security to consider an award to these young people.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

      INTRODUCTION OF INDIGENOUS LANGUAGE AS COMPULSORY SUBJECT

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) commends the Minister of Education on his bold move to introduce an indigenous language as a compulsory subject in the school curriculum - the country has long been waiting for this to happen; and

(2) urges the Department of Education to ensure that this process is monitored closely to ensure the effective implementation of language instruction.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

CALL ON MINISTER TO MAKE PUBLIC THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT: PROPERTY RATES BILL

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr C ACKERMANN: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) takes note of the Local Government: Property Rates Bill of which the tenth draft has become known through unfamiliar channels;

(2) in which local government has representation, calls on the relevant Minister to bring this Bill, as soon as possible, to the fore through the proper channels; and

(3) notes that this Bill, which could have a major impact on ratepayers’ finances, must be made available to all stakeholders in the interests of transparency, openness and good governance, and that it could form part of the debate for the forthcoming municipal elections.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Is there any objection to the motion?

Mr M BHABHA: Yes, Chairperson.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! There is an objection. The motion will therefore become notice of a motion.

                     KILLING OF POLICE OFFICERS

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) takes note that -

   (a)  during the first three months of this year 48 police members
       were killed in the line of duty;
   (b)  last year 81 were killed on duty and 131 whilst off duty; and


   (c)  more than 1 600 police officers were murdered, on and off duty,
       between 1994 and 1999;

(2) support the Ministers of Safety and Security and for Justice and Constitutional Development in their intention to take steps that would empower courts to impose maximum sentences on the killers of police officers; and

(3) urges the Government immediately to address the shortages of trained personnel, vehicles and other equipment in the SA Police Service, so that the lives of police members are not unnecessarily endangered because of such shortages.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

     VIOLATION OF BILL OF RIGHTS BY CONSTAND VILJOEN'S DAUGHTER

                         (Draft Resolution) Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes the shocking violation of the Bill of Rights, in respect of the right to human dignity, by the daughter of Freedom Front leader Constand Viljoen;

(2) further notes that Hester Sterretjie Gouws, Viljoen’s daughter, was in the dock this week for allegedly forcing 41-year-old Martha Mdiba to strip, so she could check whether Mdiba had stolen anything from the butcher, in front of her colleagues and a young boy;

(3) urges the Department of Safety and Security to appoint a competent detective with credibility to investigate this heinous crime; and

(4) hopes that justice will take its course in respect of all those who undermine our constitutionally entrenched Bill of Rights.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I would remind members that matters that are still with the courts awaiting judgment are sub judice, and I suspect that this motion will fall foul of that rule. I shall therefore not put the question. We will look at the substance of the motion, and should it not be in conflict with the Rule, we will allow Mrs Lubidla to bring it back to the House. I would like to examine both the content of the motion as well as the rule, prior to putting it to the Council for adoption.

     FAST-TRACKING OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT: MUNICIPAL ELECTORAL BILL

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That the Council ratifies the decision the Joint Programme Subcommittee took on 17 May 2000 in accordance with Joint Rule 216(2), namely that the Local Government: Municipal Electoral Bill, 2000, be fast-tracked by, where necessary, shortening any period within which any step in the legislative process relating to the Bill must be completed, in order to make it possible for the Bill to be passed by both Houses of Parliament by 23 June 2000 (see Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 410).

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                         (Review of Policy)

Vote No 29 - Sport and Recreation:

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I welcome Minister Balfour to the NCOP, as well as all special delegates that have joined us this morning.

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Madam Chair, hon members of the Council, firstly, I would like to correct one thing.

I know that I do not have the simplest of names, neither do I have the most African of surnames. [Laughter.] Therefore it is one of the problems that I come across all the time. I do insist on being called Ngconde'', because that is my name, and I do insist on being called by my given surname, which isBalfour’’. That is not my name, that is my surname.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I said ``Minister Balfour’’.

The MINISTER: No, it was not said by Madam Chair. On the paper here it says Mr B Ngconde … [Laughter.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I see.

The MINISTER: I nearly walked out of here because I thought that is not I.

Mr M E SURTY: But the Minister is a good sport …

The MINISTER: Because I am a good sport, I will accept that. However, it should be changed to Ngconde Balfour'', notBalfour Ngconde’’.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Are you unsure yourself?

The MINISTER: That is what my mother told me. [Laughter.]

It is indeed an honour for me to address this august House in this, my maiden budget speech, almost at the end of my first year in office.

I would like to reflect on what has been a very busy year in my Ministry and the Department of Sport and Recreation. I would also like to give members some insights into the path I am contemplating for my area of responsibility, and concentrate in particular on how I see the relationship between the national Ministry and the department and their provincial counterparts.

The year 2000, as hon members are aware, is a watershed year for sport and recreation in South Africa, given the fact that the SA Sports Commission, as well as the new smaller organisational component for sport and recreation, have assumed full-scale operation on 1 April this year. This represents a new dawn for sport and recreation that will, I am very confident, take the institution to new heights in South Africa.

Allow me, first of all, to contextualise my approach to sport and recreation for my term of office. Hon members are aware of the approach of Government to integrate its initiatives in striving to improve the quality of life for all South Africans.

It is envisaged that by combining or integrating the efforts of various Government departments, we shall be able to make a greater impact on the lives of all South Africans. I have already witnessed the fruits of this approach. Sport and recreation form part of the social and international relations as well as the governance and administration sectors. It is my intention to take sport and recreation to the centre stage of these domains.

It is my view that sport and recreation have been trivialised or have been considered to be a luxury for too long. As a global phenomenon, sport has a significant impact on many spheres of social life, including the economy. Indeed, in the latter regard, I am proud to report that the latest research shows that the contribution of sport and recreation to the GDP in our country has increased from 1,9% in 1997 to 2% in 1999. Its estimated worth is some R15 billion. If capital expenditure is included, the contribution rises to R16 billion or 2,1% of the GDP.

Sport and recreation provide employment for some 34 000 full-time employees and 6 000 part-time workers as well as about 8 000 volunteers. The Western Cape should not come in late and try to disturb us. [Laughter.] We therefore sideline sport or place it on the periphery at our own peril.

Sport has always been something of a stepchild when it comes to Government allocation of resources. The situation in the provinces is no different, particularly when sport and recreation is combined with other portfolios. It suffers greatly when this happens. We, however, understand why that has been and still is the case, for there are very many other areas that require Government’s urgent and immediate attention.

Government, however, has always been committed to ensuring access to sport and recreation for all South Africans and to creating opportunities and eliminating backlogs in this regard in the disadvantaged sectors of our society. I think in this regard I also have to mention that one of the motions I heard today was about the Springbok jerseys. We are looking into that and it will be sorted out in no time.

I believe that I have the full support of the provinces in this regard. Ultimately sport takes place in the provinces and at the local level, which makes the commitment an imperative. Impediments to access is one of the legacies of apartheid and we shall strive tirelessly to eliminate those problems.

I am nevertheless dissatisfied with the budgetary allocation for sport and recreation. Our baseline allocation for the 2000-2001 financial year of R54 million constitutes 0,025% of the national Budget and translates, from a national perspective, into a per capita annual expenditure of approximately R1,20. This can never be satisfactory. We shall continue to fight for a bigger piece of the cake and I believe, on the merits of our case, that we will get that. I have already had positive indications on the possible improvements to our baseline allocation in this regard and I trust that the provinces will follow suit.

We sometimes tend to pay lip service to the potential of sport and recreation to contribute to nation-building and the like. We shall, however, have to invest more substantially in this institution if we are to realise such benefits. We shall not adopt a crybaby approach because of our budgetary allocation. Rather, we shall strive to unlock the additional resources required to meet the needs of sport and recreation ourselves.

The fact that we are one of the five good causes that will benefit from the National Lottery will go some way towards achieving this goal. I am sure members are aware that the distribution of lottery proceeds will be based on the contributions of provinces in terms of ticket purchases. Provinces will benefit from lottery proceeds in proportion to the sales that they have lodged. The prospects of this cash injection for sports development are exciting, to say the least. Moreover, the SA Sport Commission was created also with the aim of securing additional resources for sports and recreation to try to eliminate the shortfall.

Allow me to now focus briefly on some of the areas of endeavour of my Ministry and the department that I believe contribute to the actualisation of the Government’s broader objectives. Firstly, we will contribute to eliminating all forms of discrimination against women. I have requested our Women and Sport programme to redirect their energies to ensure that more women participate in sports and recreation and that the level of their performances is raised at the same time.

We are in the process of amending legislation that prohibits women from participating in certain sports, so as to ensure that we are in synchronisation with the Constitution of our country. I am referring, of course, to women’s involvement in boxing. [Interjections.] Our Constitution is described as a model all over the world. If we fail to respect its provisions, we will render the supreme law of the country meaningless. While speaking about the Constitution, I would like to warn sports administrators that have other viewpoints that no Constitution of any international sports organisation, including that of the IOC, is above the supreme law of this country.

I heard some whistles when I spoke about women boxing. [Laughter.] I think the members of the Council are enjoying this. They will probably be assisting us to get women boxers in shape and into the ring. [Interjections.] As I am a father of three daughters, we should make sure that we take all the necessary precautions and care when we get these young ladies into the ring. We should make sure that they do not get out of the ring harmed, but they should also enjoy their sport and be able to gain benefits from that. [Interjections.]

Secondly, we are looking at integrated rural development and urban renewal strategies. Our involvement in the creation of physical infrastructure and the provision of programmes in the rural areas and inner cities is manifold. Our facility creation project, addressed by means of RDP funds, was biased towards the rural areas. Sadly, however, this project has come to an end because the funds have dried up. We are however very proud of having built nine multipurpose indoor and more then 300 multipurpose outdoor sport facilities across the country with the funds that were put at our disposal.

The co-operation between national, provincial and local authorities in this project was exemplary and provided many valuable lessons that will enhance future co-operation. I am not saying, however, that we did not make any mistakes or did not experience any problems. On the contrary, we experienced some major problems, some of which have led to in-depth investigations. This is one domain however in which we shall strive to find additional resources, as our project has only made a slight dent in the huge backlog that exists for sport and recreation facilities, especially in disadvantaged areas.

Our problem, with regard to facilities in South Africa, is not about how many facilities we have or the quality thereof, but rather about the distribution of these facilities. The provision is skewed to the urban, advantaged and predominantly white areas.

We are in the process of developing a national facility plan aimed at ensuring that the right facilities are built in the right places at the right time. It is also intended to ensure that the general community makes the numerous facilities that lie dormant for large parts of the day available for use. I am thinking here of school facilities, private clubs, facilities at military bases and the like.

I trust that the provinces will contribute to the formulation of and buy into the national facility plan that is being developed currently, for it makes good sense to avoid duplication and the creation of white elephants in a domain where resources are extremely scarce.

We have dedicated programmes for establishing sustainable sport and recreation activities in the rural areas, and a new project aimed at rekindling indigenous sport is bound to promote increased participation and contribute to the restoration of the dignity of our people, by reviving elements of culture that have been denigrated and, in many instances, crushed. We are targeting the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and the Northern Province for pilot projects in this regard.

Moreover, the department, in conjunction with the commission, has set aside a considerable sum of money in this year’s budget for this project. I trust that the provinces will supplement this and embark on similar projects themselves. To this effect, we have employed a person at director level to co-ordinate this project. Indigenous sport is also very close to our President’s heart, and I hope it will be close to the hearts of all those who work in the provinces.

Fourthly, I am going to talk about combating racism and the question of representivity in sport. Last year my department held a conference to address the question of racism in sport. I was saddened by the realisation that where sport was once at the forefront of transformation and integration in this society, we have fallen behind in this regard. At the conference we developed a charter on no racism in sport that will be observed by the entire sport fraternity of our country.

I hope to include the question of racism in sport in the national and international conferences on racism that are being planned for South Africa later this year. I trust that provincial departments will consider hosting similar indabas in their provinces in order to help rid our society of this problem in our sport.

Indeed, provincial federations are being blamed for the current lack of representivity in South African sport, whereas, in my view, they should be the cradle of nonracialism and promote opportunities for all in our country. In this regard, time and again when we look at the selection of national teams, we tend to be very critical of the national federations. Sometimes we do not look at what provinces are doing to assist us so that young people can be given opportunities at provincial level and go up to national level. We tend to focus only at national level. There are provincial federations that are culprits in this regard, and we need to bring them to book for that.

On the question of the representivity of our sport teams, I have made my position absolutely clear. Our national representative teams will be chosen strictly on merit. I will, however, keep a close watch on developments in this regard and trust that the federations will ensure that the best teams are, indeed, being selected.

The national federations are acutely aware that the country is making them responsible for ensuring that our teams are competitive internationally, and that, at the same time, they continually strive to ensure that they reflect the demographics of the South African society. Representivity and transformation in sport are two things that are non-negotiable.

At levels below that of national representation, we will actively create opportunities for players from disadvantaged backgrounds to gain access to elite participation. This is not to say that I shall not be monitoring the progress towards representivity even at that level.

I have no doubt in my mind that this is the one area in which the provinces will be able to make a valuable contribution.

I am happy to announce that in the several meetings that I have held with the major sports federations, I have received unanimous support in this regard. Indeed, the national federations have signed performance contracts with me, in which they undertake to make teams as representative as possible.

I shall hold them to these contracts and measure the extent to which they realise their targets within one year. I am not looking at a five-year plan for representation, and I am not looking at a five-year plan for transformation, but I am looking at a one year at a time kind of plan, because we want to monitor exactly what they are doing.

Therefore, no federation is going to come back and say that they could not do it, that they could not find the people to put into the teams. Neither are we saying that they should just take anybody from the streets. But there are young people with potential and talent who should be nurtured within our federations, to make sure that they reach the highest pinnacle of their sports lives.

On this one as well, there was a report, which I need to mention, about the Springbok team which was announced last Saturday. We would have hoped that we would know for a fact that three of the players that are in that team, Chester Williams, Breyten Paulse and Deon Kayser, are there on merit.

There is no wing in South African rugby who is as good as Breyten Paulse at this stage. [Interjections.] If there is anybody who wants to dispute that, then that person is a fool. Secondly, if one looks at the four wingers that are in that team, the three wingers, Chester Williams, Deon Kayser - who goes on as a centre as well - and Breyten, are the best wingers we can find even in world rugby at this stage. That, also, is a fact. Those three are not quota players. They are there on merit. They deserve to be in that team. [Applause.]

Allow me to focus, in conclusion, on a number of sport-related issues that have arisen during my brief spell as Minister of Sport and Recreation, which I shall continue to deal with during this coming year. Members will recall that I have had to intervene in certain federations that were experiencing one crisis or another. These include the SA National Boxing Control Commission as well as the SA Football Association and the Professional Soccer League.

I am very happy to announce that last Friday we had a boxing indaba, which came out with a vision for South African boxing. Within no time, we will be bringing legislation to Parliament, which will correct all the ills and the problems that have beset the national boxing commission. We have also looked at the change of the old piece of legislation, Act 39 of 1954.

We have overhauled the whole Act so as to include women’s boxing in there as well, and to make sure that we have the insurance and the lives of boxers catered for. This is unlike what had been happening before, where people would take boxers, not pay their purse monies and do whatever they liked. That has changed from last Friday.

I am also happy to announce that the boxing commission has appointed a committee to investigate the alleged misconduct and mismanagement of boxing’s finances by the CEO of boxing, who is a suspended man right now. I have also requested provinces to examine and report on the state of boxing in the areas under their jurisdiction.

I am aware that indabas have already taken place in certain provinces. I am in the process of revising that boxing Act, so that the provinces can know what to put in there. This should be ready to enter the Parliamentary process. As I have said, the new Bill will be ready by August this year.

On Safa - I can hear some people moaning quite nicely - the soccer authorities have provided me with a comprehensive report on their activities in respect of the various matters that I raised with them during our several meetings. I am currently in contact with them to clarify some of the issues that I raised in the report, and I am confident that the matter will be concluded very shortly.

I must stress, however, that we will strive to clean up the sport where there is corruption and where administrators have tried to build their individual fiefdoms. If a particular sport does not budge or move forward, we will use all our persuasive powers to make them move. When one is a handsome young Minister, one just smiles at them and they move. [Laughter.] One does not have to use unnecessary methods. [Interjections.] Smiling at them makes life very easy, and they move because they know that one is such a nice and comfortable person to work with.

There are a number of issues in respect of soccer, such as the referees issue, which we are handling at the moment. Referees are being bribed left, right and centre to throw some games. Some of the club owners give money to others to fix matches. Match-fixing seems to be the in-thing nowadays. It is going to be out. We are dealing with that. But, at the same time we need to be focusing on our World Cup bid, which is doing very well at the moment. I am sure by the time the announcement is made in Zürich on 5th and 6th July we will have cleaned up a lot of the wrongs that exist in our soccer.

Another issue I want to address very quickly is the issue of struggling clubs within the PSL. There are clubs that are struggling to make ends meet. I will mention quite a number of those clubs. I have met with those clubs and we are dealing with the issue of sponsorship for them to try to help them survive. Bush Bucks from Umtata, Phunya Sele-Sele from the Free State and Quaqua Stars are some of those clubs that are battling. We are doing our best to assist those clubs so that they can be on a par with their counterparts within the PSL. [Applause.] Of course, people from Phunya Sele-Sele ``bana ba o shebile’’ [the children are watching you] will clap very hard. [Laughter.]

This year is, of course, Olympic year and members are aware, I am sure, of the controversy that has plagued the selection of Team South Africa to date. Team South Africa is the team that we will be sending to the Olympic Games in Sydney in September. I have been engaged with, and we will continue to engage Nocsa to ensure that the matter is concluded amicably in the interests of the country as a whole. Here I am talking about the hockey situation. The hockey situation is totally unacceptable and we are talking about it.

Last Saturday, I was at the Nocsa AGM and I addressed myself to this issue. All young people in our country who have really worked very hard to qualify for the Olympic Games ought to be given the opportunity to go to the Olympic Games. If we have to introduce some limitations so that they can do more work to integrate and to make sure that our sport goes to all areas, we have to sit down and do that. But, we should never ever use any event or games as punishment for something that has not been done.

We nevertheless want to wish our sons and daughters who will be striving to do the nation proud in Sydney, Australia, every success in their campaign. I know the team has not been totally finalised. It is coming to finalisation and will be leaving our shores within no time to go and represent this country in Sydney. Among the people in the team, one has the likes of Dikeledi Moropane, who is the sprint sensation of South Africa. Those are people we are really proud of and we hope they bring back the gold.

Our performances since readmission to the Olympic Movement have improved steadily over the years, and we expect that the trend will continue in Sydney. I would also like to wish the National Olympic Committee of South Africa, Nocsa, very well in preparing the Team South Africa for the games.

On the 2006 Soccer World Cup bid, at the risk of being repetitive, let me confirm that I am confident that we stand a good chance of winning the 2006 World Cup bid. At the moment, we are seen as the frontrunners with Germany. England has messed up their chances. They cannot go around with soccer hooligans and hope that Fifa will give them the Soccer World Cup. That is irresponsible. But the best country that Fifa would give the World Cup to is South Africa. I am convinced that our country is capable and equipped to host an event of this nature.

I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the bid company. They are out in Samoa. They have just left Kuala Lumpur and gone to Samoa, but I would like to congratulate them, in particular, the CEO, Danny Jordaan, on the excellent work that they have done in putting South Africa’s case to the world.

We therefore look forward to the positive outcome on 5 and 6 July. Again, I would like to thank the provinces for their support in this regard, especially during the Fifa technical committee visit to our country. Our provinces showed that soccer is still the number one sport in our country. They came out in full force for the World Cup bid. I am happy to announce that the Minister of Education, Kader Asmal, and I have made considerable progress with regard to the issue of physical education and school sport in our schools. We are committed to ensuring that these activities are restored to their rightful places in the programmes of all schools in South Africa. I am convinced that for pupils from disadvantaged communities, physical education and school sport provide the one certain opportunity in their lives to gain access to sport and recreation.

We are planning a joint summit. Before I go to the summit, let me just report very quickly that we commissioned a task team to look into the issue of school sport. For too long, school sport has been a stepchild of both sport and recreation, and education. The CEPD report came out clearly showing that between the two departments, we have to make a decision as to where school sport resides. We made a decision that school sport will be within the Department of Sport and Recreation, but the curricular side of it will be within Education, that is human movement and physical education will be within that curricular side of education. But the league, that is the competitive side of school sport, will be within this department, and we let provinces know that we are going to take care of that issue and we will look into the budgetary constraints of that whole process.

We have also looked at the issue of teachers in schools. It is an issue that needs a lot of debate - whether our teachers are really doing us justice and are promoting school sport properly within our schools.

We are planning a joint summit on physical education and school sport in June this year that will chart the course ahead. We shall be meeting with representatives of teacher unions shortly to get their buy-in and commitment to the process.

Of course, the provinces have a central role to play in this regard. Education is largely a provincial competency, and provincial sports departments will, therefore, also have to play a central role in the process of rekindling a physical education and sports culture in our schools.

I call upon all teachers to do their utmost to ensure that this initiative succeeds. It is in the interest of our youth and our country. It is no accident, I believe, that the schools with an established culture of learning in this country are also those schools with an established sporting culture.

This year I also plan to introduce the following legislation. I have spoken about the boxing control Bill that will replace the existing Boxing and Wrestling Control Act of 1954. That Act is older than some of the members of the Council, and even older than some of the members of the executive. But it is not older than me - I am older than that Act. We will then change that so that it meets the modern requirements of our sport and of our Constitution.

The SA Sports Commission Third Amendment Bill aims to streamline the operations of the SA Sports Commission. Hon members will recall that the original Act of the SA Sports Commission was drafted on the premise that there would not an independent Ministry of Sport and Recreation. After a lot of discussions with the relevant stakeholders, many aspects of that Act had to be reconsidered in order to acknowledge the existence of an independent Minister and department. The third amendment will constitute the adjustment that will ensure the smooth and efficient functioning of the SA Sports Commission and its interaction with my Ministry.

Allow me to deviate briefly in order to explain how the new structures in sport and recreation will function after 1 April this year.

The Department of Sport and Recreation and the National Sports Council have now been collapsed into the new SA Sports Commission and a new smaller Department of Sport and Recreation that will fulfil the functions of the structures that have ceased to operate.

In the process we have managed to eliminate all the duplication that has existed in the functioning of the Department of Sport and Recreation and the NSC, without incurring any additional expenses. The schedule 3 smaller Department of Sport and Recreation will be responsible for policy development, intergovernmental relations, transfer payments to clients - those are the national federations - and for servicing my Ministry, while the SA Sports Commission will be responsible for line function activities related to sport and recreation and for unlocking additional resources. The Council is aware that I have appointed the CEO of the SA Sports Commission and he is with us here today. He is Dr Joe Phaahla, and he used to be the MEC for sports, health and education in Mpumalanga. [Applause.] [Interjections.] I beg your pardon, it is the Northern Province. I nearly gave him to another province. He is now the CEO. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order!

The MINISTER: He is now the new CEO. [Laughter.] We will also be appointing the head of the new smaller unit which will be called Sport SA - that is the new Department of Sport. We will be appointing the deputy director- general as head of that department.

I have been questioned repeatedly about the establishment of provincial sports commissions, and some of the people who have been asking questions are MECs, especially Mr Wiley. I have responded at numerous forums that those decisions of forming and establishing provincial sports commissions in provinces rest entirely with the provinces. I know that some provinces are adopting a wait-and-see approach on the matter and we would like to encourage them to consider the matter with great circumspection. The bottom line is that they are under no obligation to replicate the national model.

There are a number of other issues that I shall endeavour to take up with the provinces through Minmec. Allow me to add that I am happy with the arrangements for co-operative governance between my Ministry and the national and provincial departments, through Minmec and the technical interdepartmental committees. Indeed, I look forward to expanding this forum in order to consolidate such co-operation.

Some of the issues that I would like to pursue further include the question of the crippling rates and taxes that are being levied on sports clubs, which, I believe, might lead to their demise eventually. I believe that we should be innovative in this regard and exploit the situation in order to ensure that these facilities are opened up for maximal utilisation by the entire community, and not only for the privileged in our country.

The role of provinces and local authorities in sports development and recreation, I believe, should also be brought under the spotlight. I believe that this is an area in which the concept of co-operative governance should be applied more comprehensively. I am particularly keen to see the provinces take charge of the provincial recreation councils that have been established through Sanrec.

While we are experiencing some problems with Sanrec, it is my understanding that the pro-recs, which are in the provinces, have been performing very well. I believe that provincial departments of sports and recreation should consider taking these structures under their wings.

I am also happy to note that certain provinces have taken the initiative of honouring their outstanding sports achievers. I have been privileged to attend some of these awards ceremonies and I have been impressed by the high standards that have been set. However, I would also like to encourage our provinces to honour all those veterans who, over the years, have given of themselves to sport, even during the dark days of apartheid. We should honour them and give them what they really deserve in terms of colours and blazers, be it in boxing - one thinks of the likes of Happy Boy Mgxaji and Sigegede Nhlapo - or the many people in other sports. We should always honour those people because we did not have the chance to do that before.

I also understand that, with regard to the Springboks, the Sarfu people are going to be honouring all those players who were never honoured during the apartheid years, who refused to play apartheid rugby. Now, however, when they honour the former Springboks they will honour those people as well. It is heart-warming to know that for what they have given to sport they will be given something in return.

I thank everybody for their kind attention. [Applause.]

Mr D M KGWARE: Madam Chair, hon Minister of Sport and Recreation, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, allow me to make some brief observations. The recent controversy which accompanied the national cricket team brought into sharp focus the distance we still have to travel towards the transformation of sport in our country. Some people in the Chamber might question the correctness of this statement and might ask themselves what Hansie Cronjé’s admission has to do with transformation in sport. For me it has everything to do with transformation.

When I talk about the transformation of sport, I do not only refer to the necessity of having representative teams. Transformation is not confined to the physical changes or development. It also involves the changing of mindsets. Together with our efforts to ensure that sport reflects our demographics, we should also strive to inculcate in our sportsmen and sportswomen the values of honesty and hard work, because worthwhile victories never come cheap. This is an important lesson we learnt during our long and difficult struggle for freedom.

Although it is the hope of every South African sports lover that incidents such as the Cronjé debacle are isolated and not widespread, we should not close our eyes to the possibility that they could be more widespread than initially thought, and may not be confined to players, but involve sports administrators as well.

It is a well-known factor that the successful isolation of apartheid sport resulted in aggressive attempts to buy overseas teams and individuals to come and play in South Africa. There are countless examples of overseas teams which were offered and accepted large sums of money to break the sports boycott to compete with South African teams. There was no legislation that prevented the bribery of international teams and individuals to compete against South African teams. The apartheid government, in fact, encouraged such dishonesty.

It is difficult to see how honesty could have prevailed under these circumstances. Dishonesty is but one of the many problems which the Department of Sport and Recreation has inherited after the successful transition to democratic rule in 1994.

Racism, the unequal distribution of sports and recreational facilities, particularly in our rural areas, neglect of our indigenous sports and lack of proper co-ordination between national and local government concerning the development of sport, are some of the other problems which the department will have to address.

The department faces the unenviable task of having to address these challenges within the confines of a limited budget. Yet, if one reviews the progress that has been made over the past few years, it is clear that the Minister and his department have made significant progress. Since 1994, the department has provided funding to the tune of R48 million, which saw the establishment of more than 130 outdoor sport and recreation facilities in communities which in the past were denied such facilities. It also launched courses to build capacity with regard to the management of these facilities and to mobilise communities to take ownership of and to care for their facilities.

As the Select Committee on Sports and Recreation, we are looking forward to intensifying our programme of action with regard to the issues affecting sporting matters. The Minister has our support at all times. [Applause.]

Mr I SEGALO (Free State): Chairperson, there are basically three issues that the Free State would like to address in this debate. These are racism in sports, co-operative governance relating to sports facilities and matters of indigenous sport.

I shall deal with racism in sport. As a result of the dated polarisation of South African sport, transformation thereof is a warranted and ongoing process that is, and should not only be, driven by the RSA Government. It should be equally driven by sport federations and macro sport bodies that are resident within the Republic. The groundbreaking effort evidenced by the Department of Sport and Recreation, Nocsa and NSC ``No Racism in Sport’’ conference, which was held in Midrand in July 1999, is not only acknowledged to be long overdue by the Free State province, but also indicative of the need for the province, and all other provinces, to engage in a similar process of debating around this issue in appropriate fora, to heighten awareness about racism in sport in the Free State province and to ensure that this apartheid scourge is finally removed from the mainstream of our sport and recreation.

The view of our province is that racism in sport can manifest itself in various ways and affect all administrators, athletes, coaches and technical officials as internal role-players in sport, but it is not necessarily limited to affecting the said identified role-players only. Ordinary citizens of our province, and the Republic at large, are also greatly affected by this scourge. The private sector is also affected by racism in sport in as far as it relates to sponsorships and donations towards sport development in all the accredited sport codes that are practised in our province and the Republic in general.

It is within this foregoing context that our province will be holding a summit which will be addressing racism in sport later in the 2000-2001 financial year, to look at the following. Firstly, it will seek to identify all instances and manifestations of racism within the Free State mainstream sport and recreation. Secondly, it will seek to demystify dated myths around sport and recreation participation trends, that in turn deny demographic growth in sport and recreation in the Free State whilst subtly perpetuating apartheid in the Free State mainstream of sport and recreation.

Thirdly, as informed by the finding of the appropriate fora attending the envisaged summit, is to systematically begin in all earnest with the requisite transformation process that would result in all traces of racism in sport being eradicated in mainstream sport and recreation in the Free State.

Regarding co-operative governance relating to sports facilities, our view as a province regarding sport and recreation, in cognisance of the Constitution of the Republic, and as informed by priority 1 of the White Paper on sport and recreation, is that all three spheres of government should, of necessity, co-operate on the issue of the provision and maintenance of sport and recreation facilities within the Free State.

The Free State approach regarding this matter is that both the provincial and local spheres of government should provide and secure funding for sport and recreation facilities within the Free State. On account of the fact that the local sphere of government has the constitutional obligation of maintaining sport and recreation facilities, the directorate of sport and recreation has assigned one official to oversee the educational process of empowering volunteers, within benefiting communities, on how to maintain and utilise these facilities optimally, whilst safeguarding them from vandalism.

Regarding indigenous sport - and I must say that that is a part of our rural development strategy - in acknowledgement of the rural nature of our province, our provincial government holds the view that sport development programmes that are under way in the Free State should not only benefit people who live in the urban areas, but also be extended to all rural communities in the province.

In pursuit of this ideal, the province and its strategic partner, the Provincial Recreation Council of the Free State or Prorec, in conjunction with the Department of Sport and Recreation, has, to date, already staged rural sport development projects in areas such as Qwaqwa, Botshabelo and Thaba Nchu in the 1999-2000 financial year. As part of a sport and recreation-specific contribution to the attainment of the African renaissance ideal, our province has in the current financial year started with the process of raising the profile of Dipapadi Tsa Basotho as the pilot phase of the development initiative in this regard.

This approach is warranted by the fact that - and this is very important - the Sesotho culture predominates in the Free State province and has a cultural institution such as the Basotho Cultural Village, which is central to the entire process. It is also informed by the fact that the Free State province will benefit from other provinces where other cultures predominate, and that the national picture regarding what the rest of the Republic has, in terms of indigenous sport and recreation activities that warrant revival, can be attained through this very approach that is advocated by the Free State. To conclude, in this process of raising the profile of dipapadi tsa rasotho [traditional Sotho games], emphasis will be on those who promise and prove to enhance formal education certification of such indigenous sport and recreation activities as morabaraba, diketo and kgathi, to mention but a few to be prioritised. [Applause.]

Mr B HERMANUS (Northern Cape): Hon Chair, Minister Balfour, hon members, special delegates, comrades, ladies and gentlemen, it is my privilege to address this house on the challenges facing sport in the Northern Cape.

Having travelled the length and breadth of our vast province has once again highlighted the severe neglect and deprivation that our people suffered under apartheid with regard to the provision of sports facilities. We, however, appreciate the initiatives of our national department in addressing the imbalances created by apartheid as far as facilities are concerned.

As a provincial government committed to the creation of equal opportunities for all our citizens, we will continuously endeavour to provide adequate facilities in all our communities. We sincerely believe that one can only say that one has created equal opportunities if one has equal facilities available in all communities. Special initiatives must be implemented to level the playing field and create opportunities to give birth to the abundant untapped talent in former disadvantaged communities. We are convinced that there are many Lucas Radebes, Dingaan Thobelas, Josia Thugwanes, Penny Heynses, Breyton Paulses and Dikeledi Moropanes out there, and, in partnership with our provincial federations and national federations, we will unearth this talent. We acknowledge that our work has just begun.

Within our limited resources, we will endeavour to address the imbalances of the past, and we are optimistic that priority would be given to our situation when decisions are taken with regard to the provision of sports facilities and the distribution of funds received from the lottery. As we continue our march out of the doldrums of apartheid, our objectives will remain the provision of basic facilities where none exist, creating opportunities for rural communities, eradicating racism in sport and entrenching nonracialism, building upon basic training to achieve high levels of competition and eventually excellence, creating access to existing facilities for all communities we serve, providing the platform for our sportspersons to achieve and excel, and acknowledging the contributions made by our sportspersons of the past, especially those who have never been recognised. Transformation is central to all our work.

In striving to achieve our objectives of creating opportunities and giving birth to talent, we recognise the need to be appropriately equipped to do so. To this end our training programmes will continue to target women, youth and the disabled as a means to address the poverty levels in our communities and make an impact on the high levels of crime. Sport can play a unifying role in our country and sport should continuously be used as a tool to break down all the artificial racial barriers created by apartheid.

In partnership with the provincial sports councils we insist on monitoring the development programmes of sports federations to ensure that they are outcomes based. A decision recently taken is to conduct unity audits of all sports codes in our province, and we are planning a no-racism-in-sport indaba which will be hosted in August. We have been prompted to do this as a result of the existence of racism in many of our sporting codes in the province. Our aim is to ensure that provincial codes sign performance agreements committing themselves to development, unity and nonracialism.

Sport at learning institutions is critically important to the holistic development of the child and should become an integral part of school curricula, and our educators should be dedicated to this process. We welcome the decision that school competitive sport and school leagues will fall under the Department of Sport and Recreation provincially and nationally. We are in the process of establishing partnerships with local government structures explaining their role in terms of the White Paper on Sport and Recreation. Initiatives at this level include joint sport and recreation programmes and the establishment of a sports trust funded from a percentage of service fees paid to municipalities by citizens. Great emphasis is placed on the rural communities in our attempt to eliminate the backlog as far as sport illiteracy is concerned.

Regular sport literacy courses are conducted, and coaching clinics in partnership with the provincial and national sports federations are taken to the remotest parts of our province. In the process of doing this, we are committed to the revival of indigenous sport and recreation activities. A provincial event to promote indigenous sport will be held on 24 September as part of our Heritage Day celebrations.

The Northern Cape department of sport expresses delight in the establishment of the SA Sports Commission and are confident that the commission will contribute to unlocking energy and giving birth to talent, and thereby contribute towards reducing levels of crime and despair in our province. We are encouraged by the drive and enthusiasm shown by the Minister and his team at national level in taking sport to greater heights.

We acknowledge that there is much more we can do in our province to bring sport to the forefront and to take it to greater heights. We acknowledge that there is still much more we can do nationally to ensure that we create opportunities for all the untapped talent we have.

The Northern Cape has a team in place and our people are moving with us in support of our vision, as outlined. Kea lebogo. [Thank you.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I did not call you, Mr Raju. [Laughter.]

Before I proceed I want to acknowledge the presence of our little children on the gallery. They are very well behaved and I wish them well in their excursion of Parliament. Who knows, one day they may be sitting in this Parliament and in this Chamber.

I now call upon the hon member Raju.

Mr N M RAJU: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister Balfour, hon MECs and special delegates, and hon permanent delegates of the NCOP, at the outset I wish to state that I share the sentiments expressed by the hon the Minister with regard to sport and recreation.

The statement that sport and recreation has been trivialised for too long is absolutely true, and that sport and recreation is on the threshold of emerging from the shadows and taking its rightful place on the centre stage of our life is most welcome.

In fact, I personally have long been saddened by the cinderella treatment given to this important dimension of life in South Africa. I quote Sir Henry Newbolt’s famous words:

When the Great Scorer comes to write against your name, he writes not that you won or lost, but how you played the game.

Those were the halcyon days of yore when a game was played for its sheer enjoyment. The outcome of the game, a win or a loss, was of little or no consequence. In fact, all that the victor received was a frond of palm leaves.

Today the face of sport has been completely reconstructed by professionalism, that is money. I am not going to dwell this morning on the most recent multimillion rand deal that South Africa’s two most powerful soccer teams, Kaizer Chiefs and Orlando Pirates, have recently concluded, nor am I going to focus on the pathos engendered by the heart-rending exit of AmaZulu from the premier league - the once mighty Usutho from my own province, KwaZulu-Natal, the world’s last outpost of the mighty Zulu empire

• and neither am I going to make reference to the entry of the formidable woman boxers into our sporting world. I rather prefer to wrestle with them. [Interjections.] However, I will concede that not only in soccer, but also in cricket, despite the dark shadow cast on it by the embarrassing match-fixing scandal, which has incidentally stained the image of cricket not only in South Africa but also internationally, in tennis, swimming, golf, hockey, athletics and most recently in netball, South African sportsmen and sportswomen have done South Africa proud in the international arena. Consistently and persistently, our sporting stars are elbowing themselves to the front line of world sports.

But do we really lounge back and bask in the glory of the meteoric achievements of South Africans at home and abroad?

Let us for a moment turn our telescope onto the home front, especially away from the towns and cities, and have a closer look at the situation obtaining in our rural areas. Can we really say that sport and recreation enjoy pride of place in the lives of our rural compatriots? In Thomas Gray’s Elegy written in a Country Churchyard, these words appear:

Full many a gem of purest ray serene The dark unfathom’d caves of ocean bear: Full many a flower is born to blush unseen, And waste its sweetness in the desert air.

These words succinctly describe the wealth of talent that remains unearthed in our rural areas, which remain deprived of adequate sport and recreational facilities.

It is from these very rustic and rural environments that some of our great stars, nevertheless, emerge like shooting stars across the South African firmament - Josia Tugwane, the great marathon runner; Papwa Sewgolum, golfer; ``Tap Tap’’ Makhathini, boxer - plucked from relative obscurity into the limelight.

The state has an obligation to ensure that every South African - from the farthest rural corner in our land to the nearest informal settlement living precariously on river-banks in the middle of our cities - is not denied access to some elementary form of recreational outlet. Here is where the provinces, local authorities and schools bear the responsibility. In fact, I was glad to hear the hon the Minister refer to the fact that provincial sporting commissions are about to be established.

That is not all. What about our schools, not only in the rural areas, but in the urban townships as well? As long as our children and our youth do not have places to vent their energy and indulge in invigorating exercises and discover their sporting prowess, the state will stand guilty of looking at the stars and forgetting the flowers at our feet. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mnr C ACKERMANN: Mnr die Voorsitter, die Nuwe NP vereenselwig hom met die voorstel wat goedgekeur is ten opsigte van die onder-23-sokkerspan wat geseëvier het oor Nieu-Seeland asook met die standpunt en die gelukwensing van die Minister ten opsigte van die Suid-Afrikaanse rugbyspan, die Springbokke onder leiding van Andrè Vos, wat gekies is om ons internasionaal te verteenwoordig, ook veral in die Drie Nasies-toernooi. Dit was goed om te hoor die Minister sê Breyton Paulse is die beste vleuel in Suid-Afrika. Laat ek hom net daaraan herinner, Breyton Paulse is van die Wes-Kaap en van die Stormers! Ons is baie trots op hom! [Gelag.]

Ek wil ook verwys na die standpunte wat my kollega ingeneem het oor die toerusting en die rugbytruie wat in Spanje gemaak word. Dit wys nou net hoe sensitief so ‘n aangeleentheid kan word. Die agtergrond, soos ek dit verstaan, is dat Nike die borg van die sporttoerusting is. Daarom sal ons op ons borge ‘n beroep moet doen dat hulle ook sensitief sal raak omtrent die aangeleentheid oor waar sporttruie gemaak word. Agb lede weet self dat sporttruie deesdae op ‘n baie wetenskaplike wyse gemaak word en dat dit nie net altyd van gewone materiaal is nie. Ons sal die borge moet bewus maak van hierdie tipe ding sodat hulle besef dat dit darem belangrik is dat daardie klere in Suid-Afrika gemaak sal word.

Ek wil net sê ‘n mens moenie nou Sarfu se keel afsny as gevolg daarvan nie. Daar mag redes agter hierdie ding wees, en ons moet eerder met gesonde verstand daarna kyk om die situasie te voorkom.

Suid-Afrika het op sportgebied verskeie uitdagings, en ek gaan net na so ‘n paar verwys. Die grootste uitdaging is natuurlik om die aanbieding van die Wêreldbeker sokkertoernooi in 2006 vir Suid-Afrika te wen. Hierin ondersteun die Nuwe NP die Minister en Safa ten volle. Afrika verdien ‘n kans om hierdie grootse sportgebeurtenis te kan aanbied.

As die ontwikkelde Eerste Wêreld werklik ‘n bydrae wil maak tot opheffing en ontwikkeling, nie net in Suid-Afrika nie, maar in die hele Suider- Afrika, dan behoort hulle die aanbieding van die toernooi in 2006 aan ons toe te ken. ‘n R30-miljard-inspuiting vir ons land se ekonomie, die skepping van bykans 140 000 werkgeleenthede en ander vooruitsigte wat vir Suid-Afrikaners ontsluit word, kan Suid-Afrika en die streek net tot groot heil strek.

‘n Mens kan nie anders nie as om die eendragtigheid van ons mense omtrent hierdie bod te ervaar en te loof. Daar is R40 miljoen wat geïn is deur borge, die media wat elke poging van die bodkomitee tot die fynste besonderhede uitlig en loof, politieke partye wat sonder uitsondering saamstaan oor hierdie aangeleentheid. Sokker kan ‘n reusebydrae lewer om die demokratiese ideale in ons land tot hul volle reg te laat kom. Ons wens die bodkomitee alles van die beste toe.

Tog is ek bly dat die Minister ook vandag verwys het na die ongerymdhede wat in sokker voorkom. Ons kan nie toelaat dat hierdie ongerymdhede voortduur nie, want dit gaan ons bod kelder. Daarom staan ons by die Minister, en vra hom om onverbiddelik en so gou moontlik standpunt in te neem om hierdie ongerymdhede opgelos te kry. ‘n Tweede uitdaging wat ons in die gesig staar, is om te verseker dat Suid- Afrika se sportspanne internasionaal mededingend bly, maar ook om toe te sien dat die nasionale sportspanne uiteindelik die demografie van die land weerspieël.

Ek wil die Minister loof vir die sterk standpunt wat hy inneem teen rassisme in sport. Hier is vandag baie verwys na rassisme in sport, maar ek wil ook een waarskuwing rig: ons moenie agter rassisme skuil ter wille van eie gewin nie. Ons moet baie versigtig daarmee wees. Ons moet ook die goeie uitbring wat reeds gedoen is, en daarop voortbou.

As ons by wyse van strafmaatreëls gaan optree, soos Noksa gemaak het met ons manshokkiespan - en ek sal graag by die Minister wil hoor wat gaan nou aan met die manshokkiespan - of as ons rassekwotas op nasionale sportspanne gaan afdwing, gaan sport en goeie menseverhoudings in Suid-Afrika daaronder ly. Die vordering wat daar gemaak is, op die meeste vlakke van alle sportsoorte ten opsigte van verteenwoordigendheid, is absoluut lofwaardig in die kort tyd wat ons demokrasie bestaan.

Kyk net hoe bankvas staan die Vrystaters agter hulle nuwe, opwindende losskakel - ek dink sy naam is Simba! - van die Cheetahs. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is jammer dat hy van Zimbabwe kom, maar wat saak maak, is dat hy daar is op meriete, en vir hom open dit ‘n nuwe wêreld en word ook nuwe bande van samewerking gesmee. Dit is ‘n plesier om te sien dat die Vrystaters die Vodacom-beker gewen het, en hy was juis instrumenteel agter daardie absolute spanpoging wat daar plaasgevind het. [Tussenwerpsels.] Kom ons lig dit uit, kom ons maak daarvan iets. Ons moenie net op die negatiewe konsentreer nie.

Die situasie in die Vrystaat staan in teenstelling met wat nou in die SWD aan die gang is. Daar is dit nie net rugbypolitiek nie; dit is plein partypolitiek! [Tyd verstreke.] [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr C ACKERMANN: Mr Chairperson, the New NP associates itself with the motion agreed to with regard to the under-23 soccer team that triumphed over New Zealand, as well as with the standpoint and the congratulations of the Minister with regard to the South African rugby team, the Springboks under the captaincy of André Vos, who were selected to represent us at the international level, especially in the Tri Nations Tournament. It was good to hear the Minister say that Breyton Paulse was the best winger in South Africa. May I just remind him that Breyton Paulse is from the Western Cape and one of the Stormers! We are very proud of him! [Laughter.]

I would also like to refer to the I would also like to refer to the standpoints my colleague had taken with regard to the equipment and rugby jerseys that are made in Spain. This indicates how sensitive such an issue can be. The background, as I understand it, is that Nike is the sponsor of the sport equipment. Therefore, we will have to appeal to our sponsors also to become sensitive about the issue of where rugby jerseys are manufactured. Hon members know that rugby jerseys are manufactured in a highly scientific manner these days and that they are not always simply made of ordinary fabric. We will have to make the sponsors aware of this kind of thing so that they would at least realise the importance of manufacturing these jerseys in South Africa.

I would also wish to say that one should not crucify Sarfu because of that. There may be reasons for this decision and we should rather use our common sense when looking at the matter in order to solve the problem.

South Africa faces various challenges in the field of sports, and I am only going to refer to only a few of them. The greatest challenge, of course, is to win the bid so that South Africa could host the Soccer World Cup tournament in 2006. The New NP fully supports the Minister and Safa in this regard. Africa deserves a chance to host this major sports event.

If the developed First World really wants to make a contribution to upliftment and development, not only in South Africa, but also the whole of Southern Africa, then they should award the hosting of the tournament in 2006 to us. An injection of R30 billion for the economy of our country, the creation of almost 140 000 jobs and other prospects which would open up to South Africans, will be of great benefit to South Africa and the region as a whole.

One cannot but experience and praise the solidarity amongst our people with regard to this bid. There is the R40 million collected by the sponsors, the media, which focuses on and praises every effort of the bid committee to the last detail, political parties that, without exception, stand together on this issue. Soccer can make a major contribution to do justice to the democratic ideals of our country. We wish the bid committee the best of luck.

I am nevertheless glad that the Minister referred today to the irregularities which occur within soccer. We cannot allow these irregularities to continue, because it is going to sink our bid. Therefore, we stand by the Minister and request him to adopt an implacable position as soon as possible in order to resolve these irregularities.

A second challenge we are facing is ensuring that South African sports teams remain competitive in the international arena, but also ensuring that the national sports teams eventually reflect the demographics of the country as a whole.

I wish to laud the Minister for the strong stand he has taken against racism in sport. Much reference was made here today to racism in sport, but I also wish to issue one warning: We should not hide behind racism for our own benefit. We should be very careful in this regard. We should focus on the good that has already been achieved and build on that.

If we are to act punitively, as Nocsa did in the case of our hockey team - and I would like to hear from the Minister what is happening with the men’s hockey team - or enforce racial quotas on our national sports teams, this will be to the detriment of sport and sound human relations in South Africa. The progress that has been made at most levels in all types of sport with regard to representivity, is absolutely laudable, taking into consideration the brief existence of our democracy.

Just look at how firmly the people from the Free State stand behind their new, exciting fly-half - I think his name is Simba - of the Cheetahs! [Interjections.] It is a pity that he comes from Zimbabwe, but what is important is that he is there on merit, and it opens a new world to him and new ties of co-operation are being forged. It is a pleasure to see that the Free State won the Vodacom Cup and he was indeed instrumental in that absolute team effort there. [Interjections.] Let us highlight this, let us make something of this. We should not merely concentrate on the negative. The situation in the Free State is in contrast to what is happening in the SWD. There, it is not only rugby politics, but plain party politics! [Time expired.][Applause.]]

Mrs E E N KANKOSI-SHANDU (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, hon Council members and colleagues, firstly I want to say thank you very much to our Minister for this morning’s very comprehensive and informative speech.

We all know the saying ``all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy’’. For that reason we in KwaZulu-Natal believe very strongly that sport has a very important role to play. We in KwaZulu-Natal also want to share with hon members our joy and pride in the performance of many of our men and women who have achieved excellence in sport. I want to inform our Minister that we are now in our second year of recognising the best sport performances in our province, also that of the veterans. We had our last prizegiving on Friday, 19 May.

For that reason we believe that sport and recreation should be rated among the national priorities of our country. Recreation is essential for both mental and physical health, keeping the body and spirit in a state of fitness. Competitive sport has the capacity of unifying people, as it requires absolute co-operative collaboration, discipline and commitment in order to win, if a person forms part of a team.

Fortunately the majority of sporting activities take place in team context, thus persuading participants to put the team before personal interests. These are features of nation-building and can bring about healing and reconciliation in a society divided by the ills of the past.

However, as the budget now stands, one doubts whether the department will reach out to the provinces with financial assistance to promote all the sports codes and develop infrastructure in the disadvantaged areas by way of redress and equity funds.

We also want to thank our Minister for the steps taken towards reviving indigenous sports and appointing a co-ordinator who will work particularly with three targeted provinces, which are for the largest part rural.

The question of recreation and the development of traditional games and sporting activities cannot simply continue as subjects for discussion; there must be an action plan as our Minister has said. Traditional sport must be promoted to the level of competitive sport. Examples of this are ukugenda'', skipping, bottle racing, three-legged race, counting games, wrestling orukuzwana amandla’’.

We also want to thank the Minister for clarifying the national policy governing the provision of sport and recreation so that provinces can have something to follow. We also want to thank him for clarifying where competitive sport resides, especially in the school sector. I am the provincial Minister of Education, Culture, Sport and Recreation and I have a very big problem in actually locating the residence of sport. The Minister has now given us clarity.

Some sporting activities such as traditional dancing, in isiZulu ingoma'' dancing, can actually be classified as cultural activities. However, there is a relationship between this kind of sport and the formal sporting and traditional activities. I therefore wish to suggest to our Minister that, in addition to speaking to the Minister of Education, there should be talks between himself, the Minister of Education and the Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, in whose department activities such as ingoma’’, ``isichathamiya’’ and such sports reside as cultural activities.

The budget should also recognise the potential sport has of developing industries and job opportunities that can employ millions in our country. Youth sport and recreation groups, I believe, should be encouraged to organise themselves into legal entities so that they can access opportunities offered by Government departments as service providers of entertainment, sports equipment, training facilities, conference centres and so on.

I am aware that the Minister has spoken about the millions that sporting activities employ. I am also talking about actually targeting real groups, real people, especially in the rural areas, where one forms them into, for example, co-operatives so that they become legal entities and can actually tender for sporting activities and other opportunities that are available in government as service providers in this area. [Interjections.] I want to assure the Minister and the Council that we have gone a step ahead in KwaZulu-Natal and have launched Wasa, the Women Sports Association in South Africa. In fact, we have, in addition to the sports known traditionally as women’s sports, associations of women soccer and karate players. Having said that, I want sports and recreation groups to be encouraged to form themselves into legal entities.

I would also like to inform our Minister that we have gone ahead in KwaZulu- Natal and actually assisted some groups and made them legal entities. I will quote two, one of them the Zulu Dancers, Singers and Entertainers Co- operative Limited, which has just returned from performing in Jordan and did South Africa very proud. In fact, I heard that our Speaker of Parliament was in Jordan and got acclamation from all the countries of the world for the performance of this group that went and performed in Jordan last month. [Interjections.] I want to inform our Minister that we also have another group that has been registered as a co-operative and actually provides service to government and other people. It is called Ubuhle boLundi, and is an isichathamiya group.

The Department of Sport and Recreation must encourage people to excel in what they can do best. However, I am afraid that the Minister’s budget is very lamentable. Nonetheless, we do support him and the budget that has been given to his department and we acclaim him for saying that he is not a crybaby and will do the best with what he has.

Before I sit down, I just want also to point to the question of the Comrades Marathon in our province and representivity in that sports code. That is one of the sports codes in our province in which very little is happening in terms of representivity. We also want to thank the Minister for the circulars he has sent to us as provinces in which he has asked us to send him the names of schools to which he can send sports kit such as jerseys. We look forward to South Africa winning the 2006 bid from Fifa and we actually look forward to that tournament being hosted by our province in Kwazulu-Natal. [Applause.]

Mr L SUKA: Chairperson, Minister of Sport and Recreation, special delegates from the various provinces, I just want to say to the Minister and his department: ``Forward ever, backward never!’’ A sporting nation is a healthy nation and in that regard he is posing a challenge to us to take sport very seriously. I want to say just a small thing, namely that when we talk of racism in sport we are not overemphasising that point, but are making a statement as we go towards that national conference later in the year. So people should not panic when we talk of racism in sport.

It is an honour for me to address this House on the occasion of the debate on this Budget Vote.

I am going to use this opportunity to reflect on racism in sport, and the relationship between the National Sports Commission, the provincial organisations and the federations in sport.

Let me begin by using the following words: It is time that the integral role which sport plays in the process of nation-building is fully recognised. These are the words that the White Paper on Sport and Recreation uses, quoting an observation made by the Commonwealth heads of government working group in Harare in 1995 on the pivotal role that sport plays in nation-building. The White Paper continues, on the role of sport in nation-building, and I quote: Perhaps the most important of all roles is the role of sport in fostering national unity. The contribution of sport in the process of nation-building, which is a critical objective of the ANC Government, cannot be overstated, particularly when viewed against the background of apartheid and its legacy which has resulted in the racial polarisation of our society, as has been alluded to by the Free State delegate.

National unity, with sport playing a vital role in its creation, is a noble idea which I believe is shared by all in this House and certainly by the overwhelming majority of South Africans. We commend the Minister and his department for strides made towards nonracism and building racial unity in sport. As such, we are looking forward to that conference.

Sadly, sport, which has made great strides in this country in redressing imbalances and forging nonracism, continues to be dogged by incidents of racial intolerance in certain sporting codes. For instance, a black reporter narrating his experience wrote about an incident at a test match that was played in Port Elizabeth where a section of the crowd threw objects and shouted racial insults at black performers during the event. That was very unacceptable. Sporting people will know about this event that I am referring to.

Yet, on another front, a famous coach of one of our teams taking part in the Super 12 has inexplicably dropped a black player from his squad - an action that was greeted with astonishment in the established press and also invited a strong reaction from Sarfu’s CEO. If the members have read last week’s Sunday Times, they will know the article that I am referring to.

At another level, we still continue to see all-white teams in our national teams of certain sporting codes at different levels of sport. We continue to see disparity as far as the availability of sporting facilities in our society is concerned, let alone the rural communities, especially in the three provinces that were identified by the Minister. These are incidents that perpetuate racism, one way or another, in our society and still continue every day.

Such a state of affairs cannot be allowed to exist in this new democracy. We need to tilt the balance of forces so that everybody is advantaged at that level. [Interjections.] We must state that we will not allow ourselves, also, to be subjected to being second class in our sports when it comes to facilities, especially in school sports. If time allowed me, I would have delved much into the school sports. We call on all our people to confront racism whenever and wherever it raises its ugly head in sport.

We must at this stage commend the Minister on his appointment of a chief executive office for the SA Sports Commission, hence the slogan that I started with: ``Forward ever, backward never.’’ Transformation is necessary at this point in time and we need to accelerate that. We will support the Minister.

We believe that this is an important step in the development of sports in our country. We also welcome efforts made at establishing organisational structures for the SA Sports Commission so that we may move and accelerate that transformation. We must at this stage reflect on the relations of the sports federations with the SA Sports Commission. We envisage a relationship that will be mutually beneficial for these important sports institutions at a human level. We believe that SA Sports Commission will assist the sport federations by giving them the necessary capacity to run their sporting codes, though we understand that the Minister’s budget is limited. As such he is saying to us, I hope, that we need to put more effort into lobbying for more funds for sport, so that it need no longer be the stepchild of Education or another department.

This is vital. For sport establishments to achieve their goals they have to be run very effectively. We also see a role for the SA Sports Commission in giving capacity to various provincial sports institutions. We would like to see a situation where provinces contribute effectively to the National Sport Council. A critical area here would be the development of sports facilities at community level.

Once again I would like also to commend one of the disadvantaged rugby teams in the Eastern Cape, namely Harlequins. They are the champions of the Eastern Cape, and are going to represent that province from 1 July until 8 July in the national rugby clubs championship in Pretoria. That team was formed only in 1992 and they are the champions of the Eastern Cape, representing the entire province at that level. That team comes from a disadvantaged community. [Time expired.] [Applause.] Mr P G QOKWENI: Chairperson, hon Minister, MECs and members, in supporting the Budget Vote on behalf of the UDM, I wish to salute the hon the Minister for his selfless commitment to the use of sport and recreation to transform the South African society for the better. It is regretted that the budget constitutes only 0,05% of the total national Budget.

Like all other portfolios, of course, sport and recreation has to compete against the other sectors of the economy for the limited financial resources. As Africans with rural origins we had occasions to fit recreational games into our shepherd’s programme as we looked after our father’s stock.

Sasidlal’ uthinti, sigibisel’ izagweba. Sasimilisel’ iinduku. Sasidlal’ ungcaka, sincindan’ ecekweni.

ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILEYO: Nondize! (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.

[We used to play the traditional jukskei game (uthinti). We would throw sticks at other target sticks that were stuck into the ground and play the traditional game, `ungcaka’, and the game of touch. An HON MEMBER: As well as the hide-and-seek game.]

Mr P G QOKWENI: On the ragged and sloping terrain, the uneven and rocky landscape of Maxham’antsundu and kuGxarha eMqongci. [at Gxarha’s place at Mqongci], … This is an example of the disadvantaged areas of the Eastern Cape. These sports must be revived.

Sasihlatywa ngamev’ omthole, umnga nomqaqoba. Sasibhuzuk’ iinzwane kukukhab’ iinyengane sakuphos’ umthuma sisiba yibhola. [Uwele-wele.] Ayekrunek’ amaqatha kukugangxelek’ emingxunyeni yamabal’ okubaleka kwezo ntsukaze. [Uwele-wele.] Zazisenzeka ke ezi zinto, mzukulwana kaKhawuta, kaTshawe, kaNgconde, kaTogu. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[We used to be pricked by the thorns of the acacia, the camel-thorn and others. We would have our toes bruised as a result of kicking granite rock after missing the fruit of the solanum, which we used as a ball. [Interjections.] We sprained our ankles as a result of getting our feet trapped in the potholes on the tracks full of prickly thickets. [Interjections.] I tell you, grandchildren of Khawuta, of Tshawe, of Ngconde, of Togu, these things happened.] Yes, we are only too delighted to be able to repeat those sports activities we were taught at our schools, which could not boast of any better facilities than those we improvised in the grazing land. Though good to the extent that they demonstrated the creative power of the rural Africans to improvise and meet the challenges of adaptations to their immediate surroundings, these experiences provided a fertile ground for the mobilisation of our rural masses around their disadvantage. The imbalances in the distribution of resources between the urban and rural areas, therefore, must be redressed very vigilantly.

We need to intervene to provide ownership and funds for school sport and to develop the potential which many of our children have to become world heroes. We would love to hear that the Ministers of Education and Sport and Recreation have not only considered how they would mutually resolve this issue, but of the programmes that their departments have put in place to redeem school sport from homelessness.

Much has been said about what sport and recreation could do to promote unity and reconciliation among South Africans, and stabilise our democracy. However, there is a view that our communities are becoming impatient with the pace at which both the racial and the sexual composition of those who participate and manage sport and recreation are transformed.

Lastly, we are looking forward to hearing positively, in the near future, of the results of South Africa’s bid to host the 2006 soccer World Cup. We would like to cheer those of our fellow men and women whose responsibility it is to network, forge links and market the country for this purpose, on behalf of the rest of us as South Africans. [Applause.]

Mr M G E WILEY (Western Cape): Mr Chairman, thank you very much for this opportunity to be back in this august House. I have had many memorable occasions here, and with you in the Chair, I am sure I am in good hands.

May I also say that, following on the Minister’s speech, I feel that sport in this country is also in good hands. I have made many speeches in this House, and not all of them have been all that pleasant, in that I have felt it my political duty to attack the other side of the House. However, today it is a pleasure for me to say that we have a Minister of Sport and Recreation in this country that has sport in his heart. He already has a proven track record in his short period of time in this position, and I think it only bodes well for sport.

May I say that he has another quality that has not really been fully amplified, and that is that he is exceptionally courageous. I think there are a number of issues that he has touched on already, specifically with regard to things like school sports, the way he is prepared to tackle Nocsa on sensitive issues, the way that he has done it so publicly and that he has come come up on the side of sportspeople. He should be highly commended for that. As a South African, I would like to thank him in that regard. [Applause.]

I also think that the fact that it is an Olympic year, it bears repeating that informal Olympic motto which says that, the important thing to remember is not the winning but the taking part, it is not the triumph but the struggle'' - and that was not an ANC slogan -that it is not whether you have won or lost but how you played the game.’’ I think that we must always remember that as our motto for this country as well. It is the taking part, not necessarily the winning, that is so important.

If we look at some of the incidents that have taken place with regard to some of our top class sportsmen in the past year or so, we see the many unsavoury accusations that have been made against some of them, and we realise that either money or winning has become foremost in their minds, and not just the taking part.

In his reply, I would like the Minister to please address the issue of lottery funds. Sport is one of the five recipients of these lottery funds. The Minister did indicate that he was going to supplement the budget with that. My understanding is that Treasury instructions prevent the Minister’s budget from being supplemented by that, and that it will have to be done by another method. Perhaps the Minister could spell out his vision as to how sport is going to become a beneficiary in that regard.

Being in the NCOP where the provinces have their say, I would like to report, briefly, with regard to the Western Cape as a sporting province. Our mission is, primarily, to support sporting federations in this province. We do so to the tune of about R1 million a year. Assisting local authorities to upgrade and build new sporting facilities in the past year, we spent some R600 000 to assist rural sport facilities’ upliftment. All of these were in disadvantaged areas.

In encouraging the development of outstanding athletes at provincial and national level to improve representivity, I can say with some pride that the majority of representatives of the Ussasa teams come from the Western Cape, and many of our national representatives also come from the Western Cape.

We have recently re-established Wecsa, the Western Cape Sports Academy, here in the Western Cape headed by sports scientist Dr Liz Breson, and the rest of the team are also eminent members of the sports fraternity who are in those capacities because of their expertise. This has been done to increase participation in sport and recreation for all ages from schoolchildren to senior citizens, to encourage healthy lifestyles, sportsmanship and team spirit and to offer an alternative to crime, drugs and gangsterism.

We are doing this by organising community games, with summer and winter varieties, and also by the initiation of something which is now in its third year of existence, namely the safe haven project, which is modelled on the idea of the American police academy day, with police officers providing a safe haven in a crime-ridden area where children can go and play sport once or twice a week under protection and supervision of the police. Also, the police officers are often used as coaches.

We will also be furthering the capacity of this province through the chrysalis programme, involving the training of young adults. I will tell members a little bit more about it in a second. We are also assisting sports forums in their endeavours to promote sport in communities. For this, we have started a volunteer programme. I think that we are possibly one of the first provinces to do so. We take young people who are keen on sport into a residential programme for about a week and teach them how to be sports volunteers, so that when we have the community games, we can call on a nucleus of people who know how to run a sports day and can use them as experts rather than having to rely on reinventing the wheel each time within a community that has not got the necessary expertise to do so.

Thirdly, we want to contribute to the economic growth of the province by promoting sports tourism. I think that the Minister referred to that. The correction that I was trying to get across to the Minister is that the figure is not R15 million, but R15 billion that is being contributed to the GDP of this country. I think that sports tourism is probably one of the most underrated tourism attractions that this country can offer. I know that our province, in particular, has its fair share of international events with the Argus cycle tour, the Two Oceans Marathon and many other events that we host very successfully indeed. I think that it is something that we genuinely need to do by coupling ourselves with the department of tourism, because this aspect is very much underrated.

We have just hosted the Cosasa games, in which we had five other countries’ teams coming to participate against South African teams. It was held at the Bellville track. It was most successful and, in turn, had a positive impact on our economy. It is our mission to turn the Western Cape into the sports mecca of South Africa, and we invite other provinces to compete against us in that regard. [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: Good luck!

Mr M G E WILEY (Western Cape): Thank you.

I want to say to the Minister that we assisted 60 sports codes with funds last year. This coming year, we are going to assist them with a further R1,5 million. The fact of the matter is that, as in the case of national Government, sport at provincial level is unfortunately considered to be a necessary nuisance in many respects. We do not get our fair share of the budget. I think that it would be good strategy for us to devise, at the next Minmec, a strategy on how to sell sport and recreation to our respective governments at provincial and national level to bring about a marketable item. Sport is a marketable item that we can sell to our Minister of Finance. Sport must play a much greater role than it does at the moment. It is not just a question of having fun competing against another team. It has a much greater impact on our youth.

The Minister has already indicated the way in which he wishes to handle school sport at the moment. I must tell the Minister that I have certain reservations because the financial implications thereof are going to be tremendous, and at the end of the day sal die uitvoering daarvan op provinsiale vlak wees [the execution thereof will be at provincial level]. The provinces will have to bear that. This will become essentially, at this point in time and unless the Minister has another mechanism in mind, an unfunded mandate. Yet the schools that need it the most are the ones that are also going to require the most funds.

Currently, in my department of community safety, which is the other hat that I wear, we are doing a focus project in crime prevention in the 14 schools in Manenberg.

As from July, following on the lead of the national department, where South Africa has been twinned with Australia as a sporting nation, we have also taken up our provincial responsibility and we have twinned ourselves with one of the states in Australia. And, as part of that programme, we have already had an exchange student going over to Australia, and we are now bringing two Australian coaches out here, starting in July, who will be seconded to the Manenberg project to bring about school sport and physical education and to run school sport. Because, at the end of the day, if the children are not occupied for a greater part of the day, they have to go on the streets. They have no other option, especially in the disadvantaged areas where there are not sufficient facilities at this point in time.

May I say though - and I can only speak on behalf of the Western Cape - that we, in fact, do have an exceptional amount of sports facilities. A lot of them are placed in the wrong areas, but most schools have a semblance of sports facilities. The problem, just like the major municipal facilities, is the running costs and overheads that go with it.

We find now at the moment that many schools have the irrigation facilities and fields, but there is nobody to water the fields and there is nobody who is prepared to accept the responsibility of watering the fields. It always used to be a member of staff’s responsibility, or a janitor or something of that nature, and because of the cuts in budgets, the first posts which were cut were two specific posts, one of which was nonserious staff or clerical staff, which might be janitors, but also truancy officers. So, we have a double whammy in that regard. Nobody is watching the kids to make sure that they are staying in schools, so they are not attending school regularly. Secondly, with the impact of the new education policy, which has a much higher pressure loading on the teachers with one-in-35 and one-in-40 pupil- teacher ratio, this means that teachers are too exhausted … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, special delegates and hon members, when the democratic Government came into power, it immediately secured a partnership with all the peoples of the country through, amongst others, a programme called the RDP.

This social contract with the people posed some challenges for a young Government like ours, but, as time goes by, it is proving that it is a worthwhile exercise, since it is reinforcing the principle of co-operative governance.

The communities of Silindilelo in Lothair, Sivukile in Morgenzon, Botleng in Delmas, and Sakhile in Standerton are still excited and empowered by the close co-operation with the Department of Sport and Recreation in the province. The facilities that were built in these communities are looked after by the communities with a sense of pride and ownership.

Where there are no funds to pay for a full-time caretaker or any maintenance, for example, members of the sport committees take turns in looking after and maintaining these facilities.

Another remarkable initiative by the department is the teaching of the national anthem and its meaning to sportspeople at sporting events. The department has also taken upon itself to explain other public holidays to the sporting communities, such as Freedom day, Youth day and Heritage day.

While a larger section of Mpumalanga province was still excited about the job opportunities created by the Maputo Development Corridor, the Department of Sport and Recreation further developed this initiative by staging festivals showcasing sporting codes of a cultural nature.

This in turn also created further job opportunities for people who were unable to be employed in the construction sector. In this way the department has unearthed the cultural talents of people which were dormant.

A further innovation initiated by the department is the construction of cultural centres which embrace African architecture. The Manzana cultural centre near Badplaas, the Ndebele Village on the northern Highveld and the Matsulu Cultural Centre near Kaapmuiden are examples of this unique African architecture and resemble a very sophisticated ant hill called a ``lichugwana’’. These initiatives have restored pride in the community to the extent that they now volunteer for any activities initiated by the Department of Sport and Recreation. This has also in turn encouraged traditional leaders to participate in initiatives taking place in their areas.

In the past year, the majority of communities in Mpumalanga were very grateful for the R10 000 which was allocated for youth sport development in the communities. These grants made it possible for all the communities to participate meaningfully in the annual Premier Games. These games encompass all sporting codes in the province.

In conclusion, I would like to thank the Department of Sport and Recreation for these initiatives and encourage them to carry on with their good work. As far as the province is concerned, we are indeed living in exciting times and more funds will ensure that this positive spirit is spread further. [Applause.]

Mrs C NKUNA: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, allow me to start by saying that we in the Northern Province would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Ria Stars Football Club for attaining promotion to the elite Premier Soccer League, and in particular Mrs Ria Ledwaba, the owner of the above club, for her perseverance and ultimate achievement. [Applause.]

There is little doubt that sport and recreation has played a role in the democratisation of our country and that, as a catalyst, it has brought and continues to bring persons of divergent backgrounds together. The Northern Province happens to be one of the three provinces which were identified for pilot projects during the 1998-99 financial year. The aim was to provide and promote sports participation in rural and disadvantaged areas, as well as the establishment of multisport clubs in disadvantaged and rural areas and contact sport leader courses in villages with the help of the National Sports Council. Now we have the SA Sports Commission, and I would also like to take this opportunity to congratulate the CEO of the SA Sports Commission, Dr Joe Phaahla, on his new post.

The Rural Sport Development Project is the initiative of the national Department of Sport and Recreation, and benefited 13 villages all over the Northern Province. The challenge in the provision of facilities in South Africa is not simply about a shortage of facilities, but rather the location of facilities. They are just not where the majority of the people are.

Some of the objectives in the Northern Province were the formation of clubs in rural areas, and linking these clubs to associations, unions, councils and federations, be they regional, provincial or national. In doing so we give an opportunity to the most disadvantaged groups, such as the disabled and women in rural areas, a chance to take part in sport. I would appreciate it if the hon the Minister could one day be in a position to watch the disabled at the Letaba School dancing on their wheelchairs.

Lastly, clubs in the rural areas must be encouraged to participate in tournaments and championships organised by provincial federations. We are aware that national federations do give local federations some funding for development. Owing to the vastness of the province, development programmes, which in most cases are followed in townships, do not reach the most rural areas. In almost all 13 villages involved in rural sports development in the province, facilities are not in a good state or are nonexistent. Most facilities, like the soccer grounds, were swept away during the recent heavy floods. There have been talks with some TLCs, but no agreement has been reached regarding the maintenance of sports facilities.

With regard to racism, we do not have incidents of racism in sport in the Northern province, but one can say with confidence that the department is successfully dealing with the issue. Racism in sports has its roots in parallel sports structures which were prevalent during the apartheid era. For instance, in the Northern Province we used to have karate for blacks and karate for whites. As a result of the intervention of the department, we now have one karate structure in the province.

Mechanisms such as the funding policy of the department are some of the attempts by the Government to deal with the unification of sports and recreation structures. The department, like the newly established provincial sports council, takes the exercise of removing racism from sport very seriously. It does not mean that we do not have racism in our province. We do have it in some other sectors, especially in the farming industries.

The debate around school sport has been going on for almost four years to date. Consultants were appointed on rural sports development to deal with the issue. A report on the issue was tabled to both the Minister of Education and the Minister of Sport and Recreation. A task team was set up to look into the recommendations of the consultants. The issue is not yet resolved.

At provincial level, a proposal on policy relations between the Department of Sport and Recreation and that of Education was made to the Department of Education. To date the Department of Education has not responded.

Rural sports festivals were organised in different pilot villages of the province in February and March 1999. These festivals provided opportunities for course participants to do practicals for the sports leader course. It also presented an opportunity for the National Sports Council to award certificates to the sports leaders that were trained.

In order to streamline relations between local government and the sport and recreation and the arts and culture departments as far as sports facilities are concerned, we have proposed to district councils and TLCs that they have to maintain facilities within their areas, even if those facilities were erected by national or provincial government. In this regard we are in close co-operation with both the district councils and the TLCs.

Provincial sports organisations and federations do not have direct contact with the SA Sports Commission. The SA Sports Commission is a delivery agent for rural sports development. The provincial department of sport and recreation does both the work of the national department and that of rural sports development. Well, at the moment it is not envisaged that there will be a provincial sports commission.

Ndzi pfumelele ku vula leswi landzelaka mayelana na leswi hi xilungu hi swi vulaka leswaku i ``indigenous games’’. Mayelana na mintlangu ya khale, Xifundzankulu xa N’walungu xi pfumerile ku pfuxeta mintlangu yo tano hi ku teka xiavo ku fikela eka xiyimo xa rixaka, laha Hofinkulu ya kona yi nga ka Xifundzankulu xa Gauteng. Xikongomelo xa kona i ku pfuxeta no tlakusa mintlangu hinkwayo leyi nga lahleka etikweni ra hina. Ntsena lexi nga kona eka n’wina Holobye hi leswaku tindhawu ta ku tlangela mintlangu leyi ti lava ku lunghisiwa. (Translation of Tsonga paragraph follows.)

[Allow me to say the following in regard to what in English are referred to as indigenous games. In so far as old traditional games are concerned, the Northern Province has agreed to revive such games by way of promoting them to the national level, with the head office based in Gauteng. The main objective is to revive and promote all sports which were neglected in our country. The only thing that is of great concern to the hon the Minister is that facilities for playing these games need to be repaired.]

In conclusion, we do have successes and challenges. We have succeeded in Transnet’s …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Maybe we will hear about the challenges next time. [Laughter.] Your time has expired. [Applause.]

Prince B Z ZULU: Chairperson, hon Minister of Sport and Recreation, special delegates from the provinces, hon members, sport and recreation are essential components in the construction and development of a healthy society. This is particularly true in the case of South Africa in which decades of enforced segregation resulted in an unequal distribution of sport and recreational facilities in favour of a privileged minority. Millions of people, and particularly our youth, were denied the right to a normal and healthy life.

The apartheid regime used our school sports as laboratories to further their dream of dividing our young people and to spread the false idea that success in sport was the sole preserve of white scholars. The tragic consequence of this policy was that only members of this privileged sector of our society excelled on the sports field and were elected to represent their country at a national level. The rest of our people, sadly, lagged behind.

This is the legacy with which the Department of Sport and Recreation is faced. The challenge before the hon the Minister and his department is to undo this system and to replace it with a system in which all our people have equal access to sport and recreational facilities. In the absence of such a system, we will not be able to elect national teams which are representative and we will continue with a situation in which South Africans would rather support foreign teams instead of their own.

The transformation of sport cannot be left entirely in the hands of individual sporting codes and federations. They need the active encouragement of Government through its Department of Sport and Recreation. The department has already made a significant contribution by creating a policy framework through the enactment of various pieces of legislation, including the South African Sports Commission Act and the National Sport and Recreation Act. This legislative framework should guide codes and federations to speed up transformation and ensure that participation reflects our country’s demographics.

The transformation of our sport should start at school level, because this is where our future sports heroes are nurtured. We will have to take a hard look at our existing school sport to rectify its shortcomings and to enhance its positive aspects.

I was pleased to learn that the department has commissioned an investigation into the state of our school sport during 1998. This investigation is very important because, for me, schools are centres for social interaction. They are a mechanism through which we can teach our youngsters to be tolerant of and respectful towards each other. School sport plays a major role in this social interaction. It provides people with the opportunity to learn more about the cultures and backgrounds of their fellow people and encourages a sense of camaraderie between children.

However, we will not be able to encourage such interaction if schools and communities are not provided with the necessary sports facilities and if school sport is not open to equal participation by all people. We therefore need to ensure that sports and other recreational facilities are provided at schools, particularly those that were neglected by the apartheid regime.

In addition to this, we need to ensure that the historically privileged schools should transform their sporting codes to ensure equal participation by previously disadvantaged people. The above initiatives must be supplemented by conscious attempts to identify children with basic sporting abilities. The department has already done something in this regard. In KwaZulu-Natal, the department, in conjunction with the provincial department, has built a number of sports and recreation facilities in the poor and rural areas. It has also embarked on a campaign to identify children with basic sporting abilities.

During 1998/1999 the department screened 9 000 children between the ages of 12 and 13 in all the provinces. The top 2% of these children will be channelled and nurtured into respective sporting codes for which they have been found to be suitable. This is a commendable achievement which shows the commitment of the Minister and his department to transforming our traditional perception of sport and to getting the whole nation to play. [Applause.]

Ms F N MAZIBUKO (Gauteng): Comrade Chairperson, I would like to greet the members of the House. Hon Minister, members of the Council, special delegates from the provinces and ladies and gentlemen, firstly, I would like to indicate to the Minister that it is no use for him to say that he is not a crybaby. I think it is about time that he started crying, so that the issues of sport and recreation were taken very seriously. Actually, he is not a baby, he is a man. He needs to cry like a man. You know, men do cry. [Laughter.]

Getting to my speech, our biggest challenge is to present the majority of our citizens with the opportunity and resources to climb the ladder in search of success and glory. We must now combat the backlogs of the past in the most efficient and effective manner by combining all the resources at our collective disposal to shape the dreams and aspirations of those we represent. The challenge is now.

As the reconstruction and development document outlines clearly, sport and recreation are an integral part of reconstructing and developing a healthier society. Sport and recreation should cut across all developmental programmes, and be accessible and affordable to all South Africans, including those in rural areas, the young and the elderly.

Sport and recreation should become part of our lives. Our children need to identify with sportsmen and sportswomen as their role models. Sport should be an alternative to drug-taking, casual sex and gangsterism.

Healthy bodies create healthy minds and it is the lack of adequate sports and recreational facilities that perpetuates the social pathologies that bedevil us. We need to create a platform for excellence and, more importantly, we need to promote mass community participation so that broader societal issues are addressed. The key objectives of our current budget in our province, Gauteng - the smart province - are to promote sports and recreational activities amongst the population of the province and to offer financial assistance in the form of aid to organisations and local government for the provision of facilities and programmes to promote sport and recreation.

Regarding our budget in the current financial year 2000-2001, the department in our province receives limited resources, but compared to other financial years this year, 2000-2001, has been an improvement. The department was allocated an amount of R108 million. Out of that amount sport and recreation benefited R8,2 million. The outputs and the outcomes will be to perform the diverse functions ranging from the promotion of mass and quality participation in sport to catering for activities for the young and old, the able-bodied, persons with disabilities, men and women, cutting across cultural boundaries.

During the current budget year of 2000-2001 the department intends to build and upgrade 40 sports and recreational facilities. A significant number of these facilities will be built and upgraded in previously disadvantaged areas. The projects will be chosen on the basis of funding criteria and there will be a small attempt to close the need gap that exist in these areas. Activities that the department will be undertaking will have a mass appeal and will encourage healthy lifestyles amongst our communities.

A sum of R1 million has been set aside to offer financial assistance to federations which meet the set criteria for funding. Gauteng’s Sports Academy is beginning to bear fruit in realising the potential in training, and the Gauteng youth are gaining interest in sport as a career and confidence that they can perform well. A case in point is that of badminton, which has four of those who were trained through the programme of the sports academy.

The department, in partnership with the Institute of Sports Science and Woolworths’ Shosholoza, launched a sports science programme. To date, three mobile units have been purchased. These mobile units provide drug testing, physiotherapy and they are manned by sports scientists of long-standing credibility. Although not all federations are fully involved in the programmes, those that are participating are that of netball, swimming and soccer, and the sports academy itself, and they have shown great improvement in their performance.

With regard to the promotion of sport and recreation, in our province we promote sports and recreation projects and centres as well as sports and recreational events. Our deliverables are: the management and establishment of local sports and recreation councils. We have established academy federations whose task will be to introduce sports codes in their various areas, especially in previously disadvantaged areas. We host specialised programmes focusing on HIV/Aids awareness, and we also promote games by hosting the Masakhane Games.

In Gauteng the Masakhane Games are held annually, which so far have attracted about 40 000 participants. These are multisports games that help to identify and develop young stars with talent. We have also seen the participation of young people, even from rural communities such as Hekpoort, Meyerton and Onverwacht. The intended aim is to have these games culminating in regional and provincial games. Local government and local businesses have contributed towards the success of these games.

With regard to women and sport, I start with a quote from Pirinen of 1997, page 295:

The feminine-looking female body participating in feminine-appropriate sport has been privileged in South Africa as the acceptable appearance for women, while the masculine-looking female has been portrayed in a negative fashion. The feminine-looking female body is seen as the acceptable way to express female sexuality.

The introduction of women in sport has brought out a positive result in terms of which females participate on the same level with their male counterparts, and they have received substantial support from this directorate over the past few years.

Although the budget does not explicitly list women’s empowerment programmes, the programmes of the directorate make provision for women’s participation.

Certificates of fitness have been issued to women who have participated in sporting activities that were hosted by the department. Now the challenge lies with us to encourage and engage women to participate fully in sport. Legislation also needs to be drafted that will prioritise women in sport, and this needs to be speeded up.

Before I conclude, I want to say that we as Gauteng will encourage our citizens to purchase more of the lotto tickets. They must tata ma chance'' andtata ma millions’’ so that we will be able to allocate more money to sports development. We will also welcome and appreciate it if the Minister would speed up the elimination of discrimination against women, not only in boxing, but also in all other sport codes. More legislation needs to be looked at so that discrimination against women will be done away with.

The Minister also needs to look at all archaic and obsolete pieces of legislation, some as old as our great-grandfathers and great-grandmothers, as these need to be amended and redrafted.

Lastly, we welcome the involvement of education’s partnership with the Department of Sport and Recreation in focusing on school sport. In Gauteng, on 29 May at 11h00 at the Parktonian Hotel, the Departments of Sport and Recreation and of Education will be signing a joint agreement for the promotion and development of school sport.

In conclusion, sport is a powerful bond which draws our nation together in a vibrant, participating, informed and economically viable community, and makes provision for infrastructure and programmes for the empowerment of the people of Gauteng which will improve the quality of their lives and contribute to economic growth. Sport is a powerful force for change in South Africa and the social mood of the nation can be read in the achievements of South African sportsmen and sportswomen. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! This is now the opportunity for the hon the Minister to respond and maybe to cry. [Laughter.]

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Mr Chairperson, it is good to hear that I can cry, but crying has got to be done in a controlled way. One cannot just cry for the sake of crying. One has to control it.

First of all, I want to acknowledge the presence of colleagues from the Netherlands. We have countries who are in partnership with us and who make agreements with us on sharing sports resources and sportspeople. I think some of the provinces mentioned some of those countries which have agreements with those provinces and with us nationally. In the gallery we have Rob de Vries and Bart van Ooien. They both come from the Netherlands’ department of sport and recreation. [Applause.]

I want to thank the members who have participated in today’s debate. Most of what they said has been very, very good and those proposals and the advice will be taken care of. We may not be able to answer all of questions here, but I would love members to keep the communication lines open, especially between the provincial members and myself, so that we can be able to talk about the issues all the time as we develop and move forward.

I would also like to thank the MECs who are my colleagues in Minmec and who have participated today. It is probably only one or two provinces who could not make it to come to this debate, but those who are here have really given us a fair understanding of what they are doing in the provinces and how those provinces are progressing.

There are a number of issues I want to raise. Sport, to me, is one those emotive portfolios. It is very emotive and very temperamental, because everybody around the country tends to want to contribute to sport, which is very good.

With some portfolios people would probably say that they do not know much about what is happening in them. But when it comes to sport, everybody wants to know, because it touches the core of every individual in our country. I always appreciate that. When one goes around shopping centres, one will find the youngsters, as well as mothers and fathers, trying to drag one by one’s coat-tails to tell one what should be done, and what should not be done. I do appreciate this because it means that one is in touch with a very exciting portfolio. It is alive and touches everybody’s life. If a team is selected, everybody phones and wants to say: ``No, no, no, that member should not be in the team, it should be this member! Therefore, it gets to be quite exciting. I think I love it, but I do not think I can last the pace. The pace is too much. [Laughter.]

Let me talk about some incidents, first of all, because there are some things that run throughout sport. However, just before I do that, I am reminded of what Mr Qokweni was saying. We need not do these things in Parliament. I will tell why hon members. Mr Qokweni was actually going right back to my roots, and talking about my ancestors, grandfathers and so on. Normally, once one does that, I would stop the car, if I was driving it, and get my kierie out. I would see if there was a group of males standing there, try my luck with them, and beat one or two of them, just to feel that I am still a Ngconde. [Laughter.] Therefore, the hon member should please not do that in Parliament, because I nearly jumped up and said: ``That is me to the core’’, and that my dad used to do that. So one should not do it.

The issues that have run throughout the debates on school sport and other issues, really are issues that we are addressing, and I am hoping that, within no time at all, we will have a clear policy for all the provinces on that issue. I would like to say to hon members to please work with us, to be patient, and that we will get to the real issue of providing proper school sport in all our schools in South Africa. We will work it out and get there.

Some hon members have mentioned the issue of match fixing. Yes, that is one of those dark things that have happened in our country. The Hansie Cronje scandal is a scandal that has robbed us, and it has robbed the world. But I think we are handling it quite well. We have put a commission of inquiry in place. The team gathers in my office every morning. It is doing its job. The commission of inquiry itself will be a public event. Anybody can go there. It will be held in the Centre for the Book in Queen Victoria Street. That is very close to us here. I understand this morning from the commissioner, Judge King, that the opening batsman for the commission will be Dr Ali Bacher. So, everybody should feel free to go and participate in that commission, and hear the probes that will go on, because we want a commission that is very strong, very strict and that is going to probe these players and remove the shadow of doubt in our minds about what is going on. Those who are found to have contravened the criminal Acts of this country will definitely be charged. There is no doubt about that.

We also want to clear up the issue of corruption in sport. Nowadays one does not know whether a game has been fixed or not. One just does not know! We need to clear up all of that in sport so that our young people can have faith in their role models again, and all of us can begin to have faith in sportspeople. I am looking forward to the report that will come out after a month from the King Commission.

The Free State has spoken quite well. I want to congratulate the Free State and all the other provinces that are planning to have events that look at the issue of racism in sport. As they have mentioned, the country is also looking at racism in issues in all our lives around the country. This year and next year there is going to be one national and one international conference. Those are conferences, we believe, that sport should play a very strong role in, because we live with racism in sport every day of our lives.

I am also excited about the developments in the Free State in all regards, and I would like to see them really moving forward and taking issues up.

With regard to the Northern Cape, my colleague Brian Hermanus pointed out quite a number of things that they will be doing concerning the Public Finance Management Act, which is very crucial to us. They will also be doing a number of things in that province, despite their limited resources, and I wish them well. I would like to say to all the provinces - and I have said this time and again - that I am available to be invited to the provinces to see for myself what is going on there, and to give an input if I can.

I never thought that there could be a meeting of minds with some of the opposition parties. I want to thank all of the opposition parties, particularly Mr Raju and others, who participated in this debate. There is a meeting of minds when it comes to sport in this country. At least we do agree on some things. Their inputs have been very constructive. I have met Mr Raju time and again and he would stop me and say: ``Something is happening there, we need to look into it.’’ I appreciate that.

I just want to comment very quickly on the issue that was raised by Mam’ uShandu from KwaZulu-Natal. She raised the issue of indigenous sport. Yes, she was quite correct in saying that I should have some talks with the Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology because some of these indigenous sports border on being cultural. So we need to find a way of assisting one another in this regard.

The issue of the sports industry and sports tourism, which was raised by Mark Wiley, is also a very important issue, and we will be talking to Minister Valli Moosa who has also been trying to sit down and talk about this with us.

To go back a little bit to the issue of the Comrades Marathon Association that was raised by Mam’ uShandu, I would like to say that we are looking into it. I was in KwaZulu-Natal about a week ago to sort out a problem concerning the CMA with Athletics South Africa and KwaZulu-Natal Athletics. I think it is sorted out now. We are looking forward to the CMA contributing to the lives of people in KwaZulu-Natal and making sure that youngsters begin to say: ``The Comrades Marathon is ours in KwaZulu-Natal and it is ours nationally as well. We will participate in it and we will get benefits out of it.’’ It is not right, sometimes, to see the Comrades Marathon just passing communities by and never affecting the lives of people in those communities. We have looked into that issue. I hope to be in KwaZulu-Natal on 16 June when the Comrades Marathon takes place.

We also have a programme that, I think, has reached provinces, an Admiral Sportswear programme, which I am excited about. This programme is a partnership between Admiral Sportswear and the Department of Sport and Recreation. In terms of this programme we will identify 1 000 schools over three years, that is about 250 schools per year. These will be mostly disadvantaged rural schools. We have asked for a contact person in each province, somebody who is going to look at those schools and report back to us.

There is the thinking that the Western Cape is not rural enough, so we should not be looking at the Western Cape. Gauteng is the smart province. It is not rural enough. [Interjections.] So Gauteng is not part of that programme. It is very smart. We will look at very, very rural provinces, and this programmes will provide those schools with sports equipment for soccer and netball free of charge. [Applause.] That programme will be running for three years. The programme really caters for the most disadvantaged rural schools in rural provinces, namely the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal, the Northern Province, Mpumalanga,

An HON MEMBER: The Northern Cape?

The MINISTER: The Northern Cape, yes.

An HON MEMBER: The Free State?

The MINISTER: A little bit of the Free State.

An HON MEMBER: North West?

The MINISTER: The North West, yes.

We will look into all of those. I am excited that we will be able to reach out to the young people in those schools. Secondly, there is another issue which comes up time and again. Our young people get selected for the United Schools Sports Association of SA, or whatever other teams, to go overseas and often their parents cannot raise the money for their air fares. We have set up a fund called the Minister’s Discretionary Fund, which will assist some of these young people. It really is a dream for them, especially the very disadvantaged, to go overseas and participate there. We will look into that. [Applause.]

We have advertised for members for a distribution agency for lottery funds. These members will sit in on meetings and assist in deciding on what will happen with whatever money we will get from the lottery fund. Once agreement is reached on the members and Minister Alec Erwin of the Department of Trade and Industry has appointed them, they will devise a policy on how we will use the funds. We will call for proposals from provinces on how they see those funds being used. Our focus here will probably mostly be on sports development. We cannot use the funds to supplement our budget, the hon member is quite correct in saying that. We will, however, definitely find a way of ensuring that these funds do work for us in our country.

I think I have addressed a number of issues, like sport for the disabled. It is the year of the Olympics and also that of the Paralympic Games. They will also be going to Sydney. We have always been biased towards the youth, the disabled and women. That is the kind of bias that we have in this department. We will continue in this vein, making sure that disabled sportspeople do get a fair share of our budget, thus ensuring that they are cared for as citizens of this country. [Applause.]

I think we are agreed on issues of transformation. We should transform. We should make sure that things are working out quite well for all of us.

I want to conclude by saying we are a nation building itself to become a world leader in sport. We need to clean up a number of things that we are doing, but I think the motto of the Olympic movement, ``higher, faster, stronger,’’ is fitting. That is what we, as the Department of Sport and Recreation, want to achieve. We also want to emphasise the point that whatever we do will be underpinned by transformation, representivity and ensuring that we give our people all over the country more opportunities, especially those who have been disadvantaged. !ke e: /xarra //ke. [Diverse people unite.] Thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Thank you, hon Minister. That concludes the debate. I take this opportunity to thank the hon the Minister for engaging this House in a lively and enriching debate. I hope hon members have benefited.

Debate concluded.

Business suspended at 13:01 and resumed at 14:06.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                         (Review of Policy)

Vote No 34 - Water Affairs and Forestry:

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: Madam Chair, members of the NCOP, avuxeni, dumelang, goeie dag, molweni, sanibonani, good afternoon, shalom, assalaamu-alai-kum, !ke e: /xarra //ke. [Diverse people unite.] [Interjections.] We welcome the coming together and working together of people, as expressed by the saying ``unity in diversity’’. The National Council of Provinces obviously embodies this wonderful tapestry of our country.

Members of the NCOP have a special window onto that second sphere of Government. This means that hon members have a first-hand understanding of some of the problems that we face in our provinces in respect of the obligations of my department.

Hon members know how great the disparities are between those who can access clean drinking water at the turn of a tap, and those who have to fetch it every day, sometimes from miles distant. Hon members know the health risks of collecting water from sources that are often polluted.

The provinces are also at the rock face when it comes to dealing with natural disasters. Some members, for sure, will have experienced the terrible floods in the Northern Province and Mpumalanga and, of course, the effects of the heavy rains spread beyond those two provinces into KwaZulu- Natal, the Free State, North West province and, of course, Gauteng, where flooding caused terrible destruction in Alexandra and Diepsloot in the heart of that city. In this province and in the Eastern Cape we have witnessed the havoc and destruction caused by terrible fires. Tornadoes continue to devastate parts of our country. Langa, Guguletu, Mount Ayliff and Umtata have suffered as a result. The costs of such disasters are very high. Lives were lost, homes were destroyed and the infrastructure upon which hundreds of thousands of people depend for their existence is now having to be rebuilt.

At a time when our first obligation is to gather our resources and do all we can to improve the lives of the poorest of our people, these have been severe blows. Yet we need to accept that they are part of the dramatic pattern of drought and flood that characterises our climate, and must be tempered with well-planned and co-ordinated disaster management strategies.

I will not be covering all aspects of our work in the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry. I will be attempting to give some review, and I have therefore selected a few items that I felt would be of particular interest and importance to the NCOP.

I would like to start by telling hon members the story of an encounter in the Eastern Cape that made a great impression on me. It also, as hon members will see, led to me changing my mind about some aspects of our water delivery.

Last winter, on a very chilly day, I paid a visit to a very poor village in the foothills of the Drakensberg near Mount Ayliff. I was there to visit a water project, and as I arrived, the whole village came to meet me. It is a well-organised community with a water scheme that seems to be functioning very well. In exchange for R10 a month, villagers receive the basic 25 litres per person per day as promised by the RDP. It looked like, and is, a good and successful project.

After the welcome we went down to the river. Well, it was a riverbed with a trickle of water. A borehole had been drilled and the water was being pumped up from underground and reticulated into the village. It was with great surprise that I came across a young woman with a tiny three-week-old baby, as I soon discovered, on her back, digging a hole at the side of the river, and proceeding to scoop water from the bottom of this hole into her container. I asked her why she did not use the village scheme. She said that her husband was unemployed and that she could not afford to pay the R10 for the water, so she was digging for her own.

The encounter brought home two very important lessons. The first is that many of our people are so desperately poor that they cannot even afford what may seem to us to be a very small price to pay - R10 a month. The second is that if we cannot provide for the women - who are the spine of so many of our poor rural communities, we cannot truly say that we are genuinely empowering the poorest of the poor. In respect of the first point, the meeting with the young mother showed me that we cannot simply assume that everyone can afford to pay for water, however low we consider the price. This means we have to find alternative ways of bringing everybody in our country into the loop. I regard this as one of the biggest challenges facing me, my department and our Government.

For this reason we have decided to look at ways of providing a minimum amount of water free to those who cannot afford to buy it or who cannot buy into local water schemes. It is a fine principle to say that everybody must pay for their services, but there are those who really cannot afford to do so. In the meantime, like the rest of us, they depend on water for life.

The Durban Metropolitan Council has come up with a staggered water tariff that I consider to be an excellent working model. The first six kilolitres of water per month for a family is absolutely free. The amount is essential water consumption for that family. Any water consumed over and above that, rises in price in a series of steps. In other words, as one progresses up that ladder, one pays more for the water that one uses. Therefore if one wants to fill one’s swimming pool every month or water an exotic English- type garden, or if one washes one’s cars and so on, and one uses that kind of water, then one will pay that extra level and tariff.

The staggered tariff not only ensures that those who cannot afford to pay receive a basic minimum, but it also seeks to change the attitude of those who take water for granted and waste it because it is too cheap. Like any scarce resource, we must put a value on water. This is not something that only appeals to the socialists amongst us on the left wing. The Durban Metropolitan Council came up with this idea, and Hermanus, just across False Bay, which is considered to be quite a conservative town, has an excellent staggered tariff framework that greatly assists the poorest at the bottom of the scale.

The second point, arising from that meeting with the young mother on the riverbank, relates to our obligation to the poorest of the poor. As we all know, the very poorest of the poor are all too often women living in the remote rural areas. We reflect on this in our speeches and documents. Yet how often do we consider the vital role women play in such communities?

Women provide the glue that cements the community together, demonstrating the most remarkable levels of endurance in the face of extreme poverty and suffering.

Often they enjoy little or no status, yet it is they who find the food to feed the children, provide the care that keeps the family together and walk those miles to fetch the basic requirements for daily living. Sometimes, as in Mangondi village near Thohoyandou, where a group of women have cleared the land and planted a market garden with their bare hands, the enterprise of women transforms the entire community.

The point is that we have a special obligation to relieve them of the burden under which they exist. It is they, after all, who carry the firewood and water home to their families. They have inherited the apartheid burden of being the hewers of wood and the drawers of water.

This is why my department has committed itself to the provision of employment for women. Water Affairs and Forestry employs large numbers of women to lay pipes in areas we put in our schemes. In the Working for Water programme, 60% of the tens of thousands we employ in all provinces to eradicate alien vegetation are women. Forestry too targets women for jobs in the rural areas. We do this not only because we pity or admire women, we do it because it is good common sense. When we provide work for women we put food on the table for the whole family. When we provide work for women, we invest in the community.

It is important to establish exactly where we need to install and implement our water and sanitation schemes and how well those we have already installed are working. This is why I have recently conducted an audit of the work of my department. Where our work intersects with that of other departments, we included their achievements as well.

The audit shows that since 1994, Government has served an estimated 9,2 million people with basic water supplies. In rural areas, the proportion served by the infrastructure is up from 33% to 50%. Around 4 million people have received new supplies from my department, 2,6 million to RDP standards, and over 6 million have benefited through improvements to the reliability and quality of supplies. In urban areas the proportion served has risen from 84% to 92%. About half of these improvements were achieved through the rural programme of my department, and the balance through housing programmes, local government and other organisations.

Our achievements in the field of sanitation have been dramatic in urban areas, with about 5 million benefiting from improved sanitation, particularly through the Department of Housing. In the rural areas, we have scarcely scratched the surface, but as housing support focuses more on the rural areas, we are hopeful that the situation will improve. This is not, of course, nearly good enough. There are over 8 million people in our rural areas who do not have water … Pardon me, this is the kind of interruption that sometimes happens to the rural water schemes. [Laughter.] I hope my reputation as a terrorist is not frightening everybody here. [Laughter.]

There are over 20 million rural people with no acceptable sanitation. This, as the President of the Constitutional Court pointed out just a few days ago, has serious consequences for our constitutional obligations. He said last Thursday:

Millions of people are still without houses, education and jobs, and there can be little dignity in living under such conditions. Dignity, equality and freedom will be achieved only when the socioeconomic conditions are transformed.

He continued:

Socioeconomic rights are rooted in respect for human dignity, for how can there be dignity in a life lived without access to housing, food, water … or in the case of persons unable to support themselves …

He correctly points out that it is incumbent on the state to take action to achieve the progressive realisation of these issues.

I quote Judge Chaskalson because, like him, I want to stress the fact that I consider the war against poverty to be the most critical issue facing us today. We have to win this war. This means we need to do a great deal more than simply manage our scarce natural resources and provide reliable and efficient services. We need to do these things in a way that ensures a better quality of life and dignity for all.

Our audit shows that the bulk of water supply backlog lies in the three provinces with the largest number of the poor: the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu- Natal and the Northern Province. More than 80% of the people still to be served live in these three provinces. Obviously the matter is urgent. It seems, however, that the original date projected for the fulfilment of our obligations, which is 2007, may be unrealistic. I have accordingly taken the matter to Cabinet, which has asked me to meet with Ministers Manuel and Mufamadi to investigate how we can speed up our water delivery.

We need to look too at the issue of sustainability. As we have learnt, putting in the initial infrastructure is not enough. Systems have run dry owing to a lack of management and maintenance at the local level. We need to ensure that the local structure responsible for keeping the system working is properly trained, motivated, empowered and has the funds. People on the ground must be educated on how to look after their water systems and to counter vandalism.

I would like to say how grateful we are for the assistance received from our donors. Last Saturday the European Union ambassador and I opened an important project in Zingquthu village in the Glen Grey district near Queenstown. The European Union has set aside over R80 million for the installation of basic water supply, targeting the former homeland areas of the Transkei and Ciskei. Together with Government’s contribution, the total there amounts to over R100 million.

We are seeing real results from this generous donor investment, with water being supplied to 154 villages serving a total population of over 200 000. The EU has also contributed a significant R200 million to water projects in the Northern Province, and, after a recent meeting I had with the ambassador, they promised to consider making a significant grant for water service in KwaZulu-Natal. These and other similar projects are critical because they bring real, practical changes to the lives of our people.

I would like to use this opportunity to also briefly talk about something the EU ambassador said to me on Saturday. He told me that the EU enjoyed working with my department for two reasons. Firstly, our accounting and reporting systems are transparent and above reproach. Secondly, the money they give us goes directly into projects where they can see that it makes a difference. We have succeeded in ensuring that not a rand or a cent is wasted. My director-general and department present here deserve a great deal of credit for this.

This made me realise once again how enormously important this aspect of our work is. We need to be honest, we need to be accountable and we need to ensure that the money we are given goes to improve the lives of the poor. It is very distressing and embarrassing to read of money that goes astray, of corrupt officials who line their pockets with money that is intended to relieve the plight of others. This obviously also applies to leadership, no matter how great or small. Whatever contribution we might have made to the struggle in the past, this is an aspect of our society that we need to wipe out in no uncertain terms. Corruption and fraud are unacceptable anywhere. They are nothing short of disgraceful in a country committed to the elimination of poverty. We must take our lead from our President, Thabo Mbeki, who has declared war on corruption.

The fact that water provision is, as we know, the responsibility of local government does not mean we simply turn our backs on the fact that many people are without basic services. We cannot simply demand that municipalities deliver services if they lack the funds, the skill or the capacity. As national and provincial government, we have a constitutional responsibility to make sure that services are delivered. This means we must remain fully informed about where and why services have failed.

We must consider ways of ensuring that the equitable share allocated to local government for the delivery of basic services is better utilised. Funds should be allocated to speeding up the provision of water services and sustaining the projects my department has put in place. It is not sufficient to lay the pipes and put in the taps. This is actually relatively easy compared to what must follow. The projects must operate in a sustainable way with the necessary funds for management and maintenance at the local government level. This is something that I intend taking very seriously. I will be discussing these issues next week at round-table meetings with MECs and we will, in consultation with the Minister for Provincial and Local Government, as well as the Minister of Finance, consider what is to be done.

Since I became Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry, we have developed a chant to celebrate the two national resources we are responsible for: ``Viva water, pure and clean! Viva forests, rich and green!’’

We have talked about water, so let me turn to our forests, the other half of my portfolio. The restructuring of our commercial forests has attracted considerable interest. Here we touch on the contentious issue of what we as Government should be doing with some of our assets. Government must do what Government does best. We are not tree farmers or saw-mill managers. Our job is to make sure the economy grows to the benefit of our people, and not to run every aspect of the economy. I am working with my colleague the Minister of Public Enterprises to implement the Cabinet’s decision that Government should not be in the business of farming trees. Our commercial forestry industry generates exports and earns the foreign currency we need to keep our economy running and creates tens of thousands of jobs in rural areas. This means we need to make sure that its management is in good hands.

We have made important progress with restructuring. Offers to take over the running of forests in the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal are in the final stages of negotiation. In Mpumalanga and the Northern Province, however, most of the offers we have received do not reflect the real value of the forests. The few proposals worth considering were unable to bring the necessary financial resources to the table. Obviously we are not going to give away valuable assets simply to get rid of the responsibility of managing our forests. We will therefore be going back to the interested parties shortly to ask for new bids in what we hope will be an accelerated process. Once the current transactions are completed, we will turn our attention to restructuring the medium-size forests called category B forests. Many of these offer tremendous opportunities for local business development to serve regional needs, and local business will be prioritised.

We are also initiating the process of the transfer of the small local woodlots to community management. This will be an important contribution to enabling rural communities which depend on firewood for most of their energy and building needs to improve their self-sufficiency. I believe that as much as 80% of rural people’s energy needs are met by firewood, much of it, as I have mentioned earlier, carried daily by women. The management of our precious indigenous forests is also receiving more focused attention.

My department is making the first inventory of all indigenous forests which cover less than one per cent of our total land area, so that appropriate management standards can be applied to each one. I would like to report to the House on the progress we are making in one particularly difficult area, Dukuduku in KwaZulu-Natal. As many of you know, this small coastal forest is next to the St Lucia world heritage site and should rightly be part of that national park. We will be having discussions with the Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism in that respect. At present, together with the Department of Land Affairs and the provincial department of housing, my department has taken steps to acquire productive land on which to resettle those who have taken refuge in the forest, because they have nowhere else to go. This will be one of the biggest land redistribution projects yet undertaken.

Many hon members will have read of the problems we are experiencing in Dukuduku. I would like to assure them that these have nothing to do with the central issue of protecting our natural forests or acquiring land for resettlement. They relate to the activities of criminals who are pursuing illegal activities in that forest and will be dealt with. Criminal activity and intimidation have been obstructing the completion of a registration process that is necessary if people are to be relocated. We will not allow the criminals to stand in the way of this process, which is good for the people and will save the forest. I would like to emphasise the enormous importance we as Government place on working in a co-operative and integrated way. As all here are aware, our President has stressed the importance of clustering our efforts in order to achieve co-ordinated and systematic development. As we all know, our Constitution requires that Government work in such a way. My department is engaged in co-operative work with all three spheres of Government, particularly on key rural projects. I have already mentioned the intersection with the work of the Department of Housing in respect of sanitation and the work in Dukuduku.

I am also working with the Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism to consolidate national parks and heritage sites, such as St Lucia and in the Cape Peninsula National Park. We are working with the Department of Trade and Industry to develop opportunities along the Orange River in the Northern Cape in line with its SDI strategy. We are engaged in other SDI projects in the Lebombo corridor and on the Wild Coast.

My work with the national Department of Agriculture on the development of policy and new approaches for the support of emerging farmers from various disadvantaged communities is taking place. In the Eastern Cape we are working with the provincial department of agriculture on the rehabilitation of the Tyefu, Ncora and Qamata irrigation schemes. From Ceres in the Western Cape to Orabie in the Northern Province, and Schemula and Mbazwana in the northern KwaZulu-Natal area, collaboration on development programmes is under way.

We are also engaged in a vital partnership venture with the private sector. A recent example is the Ukuvuka Firestop campaign in this province, which is being well supported by local business and the private sector. The campaign aims to eradicate the alien vegetation that contributed to the spread of the fires earlier this year and to set up a voluntary fire fighting association to fight fires along the mountain chain and in our more vulnerable settlements. We see this campaign as an important model for similar partnerships in the country.

Ukuvuka arises from the Working for Water programme, which is a great success story. It is a partnership with all the provinces which has featured job creation - 40 000 at its peak and 20 000 at present - through the employment of women, youth and the disabled, and of course success in clearing the alien species. Poverty relief is a very important aspect of this project, as well as the secondary industries using the by-products from the trees that are cut down.

This kind of public-private sector co-operation will, we hope, play an increasingly important role in our efforts to build a better life for all. In order to ensure that such partnerships are efficiently and effectively run in the area of water services where we need public-private partnerships to develop these schemes and to mobilise the capital, my department is drawing up a set of regulations which should be ready soon, and I do hope to make an announcement in this respect during my speech to the National Assembly on 9 June.

In coming to a conclusion, I would like to say that I am enormously gratified by the support we received during Arbor Week and Water Week. The private sector played a very supportive role, as did national Government, including the President and Cabinet. However, I was particularly impressed by the way in which all members in the provinces responded to the national call and organised activities throughout the country. I thank hon members for that, and look forward to the continued involvement of their provinces in our future projects.

It is only fitting that I should conclude by expressing my appreciation for the hard work done by the department and all the staff, led by the director- general, Mr Mike Muller, present with us today. My appreciation also goes to my advisers, Miss Janet Love and Dr Eugene Mokeyane, as well as to Guy Preston, a special adviser and a leader of the Working for Water programme, and, of course, a special expression of gratitude to the Ministry staff, all of whom have helped to ease this old soldier into a fascinating new billet. [Applause.]

Rev P MOATSHE: Mmusakgotla, kedumedisa Kokoano e ka pula. Ke a re: Pula! [Chairperson, I wish to greet this Assembly with the following sentiment: Pula! [Rain!]

HON MEMBERS: A ene! [Let it rain!]

Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Chief Whip, hon members, special delegates from provinces, we greet you this afternoon. It is no exaggeration to say that in the past the Council had had acrimonious debates about the accessibility of water in the remote areas. The existence of passion and different views on this topic is hardly surprising, for it corresponds to the anxieties which grip the hearts and minds of the people who sent us to this Council.

``I would like to express my profound concern about the minimal achievement of water services in rural areas’’, said the Minister of Water Affairs, on reviewing the strategy to find ways to further regulate and accelerate service delivery in rural areas without compromising sustainability. Before 1994 millions of South Africans did not have access to an adequate supply of water. Nearly 21 million lacked basic sanitation services.

The Chief Directorate of Water Services was established in 1994 to ensure that all South Africans have access to a sustainable, effective, equitable, economical water supply and sanitation services. Its core primary function is the reconstruction and development programmes in rural areas. The new National Water Act of 1998 ensures that users of water will pay in accordance with the amount of water used. On the other hand, it also makes provision for assistance to the poor who cannot afford to pay for bulk water to start a business. This law specifically mentions those who were previously disadvantaged on the basis of race and gender.

Government’s efforts to supply water have yielded some results, with close to 5 million people already having been served with water. There are 1 007 projects, of which 205 have already been completed, 265 are active and 539 have been deferred. These projects also help create new jobs for the unemployed. Countrywide 308 732 people have been employed, 59 663 of them in the North West province. Statistical reports in the North West province reveal that 7 million people have been served with water since 1994; 44 projects having been completed, with R682 million having been spent on these projects. Owing to the lack of funding, some projects have been deferred.

The North West province’s budget has been decreasing over the years. In the 1997-98 financial year the province spent R250 million, in 1998-99 R160 million was spent. In the 1999-2000 financial year the province was allocated R54 347 million for water service projects. The reason for this decrease is that the province has managed to serve a sustainable number of people with water, and funds are now being shifted to other provinces such as the Northern Province, Mpumalanga, the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal.

In this year’s budget R609 151 million has been voted for Water Affairs conditional grants. The North West province’s share of this grant is R46 799 million. This is a capital grant allocation to municipalities that should be used to provide the capital infrastructure for basic water services where local authorities currently lack such capacity.

Urban local government needs to develop their capacity to involve people in local decision-making. In rural areas existing bodies, such as local development communities or water and sanitation committees, assisted by local government or water boards where possible, will be involved in promoting sanitation programmes. These programmes will not succeed unless the whole community is mobilised, particularly women and children. This stems from the poor representation of rural communities on water boards. It is the responsibility of each community to safeguard public health and to reach consensus as to the sanitation system that is affordable and acceptable.

High levels of poverty prevail in rural areas. Agriculture workers’ households are among the poorest. Average wages in agriculture are well below the minimum living level. Workers’ qualification levels are low. They have few other recourses and they demonstrate little mobility in the labour market. The vulnerability of farmworkers has increased, because they rely on their employers not only for employment, but also for services such as water, electricity and transport.

The key to addressing these issues is to increase employment through the use of labour-intensive technologies, improve the conditions of employment of farmworkers, and increase support to small farmers through the extension of services and research on appropriate production methods.

In order to tackle this problem, one has to look at the example of the North West province, as it is a highly rural area. Most people have not had access to clean drinking water. However, through the reconstruction and development project, this problem has been slightly minimised. People have not just been served with water, but the unemployment problem has also improved because local people have been given employment by this project.

Water is vital for the life and health of people and ecosystems, and a basic requirement for the development of our country. However, around the country, women, men and children lack access to adequate and safe water to meet their most basic needs. Water resources, and the related ecosystems that provide and sustain them, are under threat from pollution, unsustainable use, land use changes, climate changes and many other forces.

The link between these threats and poverty is clear, because it is the poor who are hit first and the hardest. This leads to one simple conclusion - business as usual is not an option.

There is, of course, a huge diversity of needs and situations around the country, but together we have one common goal - to provide water security in the 21st century. This means ensuring that freshwater, coastal and related ecosystems are protected and improved, that sustainable development and political stability are promoted, that every person has access to enough safe water at an affordable cost in order to lead a healthy and productive life, and that the vulnerable are protected from the risk of water-related hazards. [Applause.]

Ms B THOMSON: Chairperson, hon Minister, special delegates and hon members, the future of indigenous trees and sustainable forest development lies in using these resources wisely. In this regard, we must include those that destroy this natural heritage in development efforts.

The protection of natural forests and woodlands is precisely spelt out in South Africa’s National Forestry Action Plan, or NFAP. Hand in hand with the protection of these natural resources is the protection of the environment. In terms of the Constitution, this is a function to be undertaken concurrently by both the national and provincial governments.

Indigenous trees tend to be overutilised. This has a disastrous effect on erosion, desertification and water runoff, which can lead to severe floods and loss of usable land.

Human factors lead to the degradation of our indigenous trees. Bad management practices, for example, have led to many alien vegetation types intruding on South African lands. Many rare and endangered plants occur in habitats subject to afforestation. The species are eventually overshadowed and wiped out by the exotics. This is ecologically unsound. However, new legislation will hopefully take care of this.

There is nothing wrong with exotic plants as long as they are properly managed. After all, indigenous plants are very slow growing and cannot supply our timber needs. The problem arises when exotic plants become invaders and pose environmental threats and fire hazards.

Another destructive factor and one which raises socioeconomic implications for development is community attitude. Community participation in the management of forest resource bases is paramount. Their involvement will go a long way towards preserving our indigenous trees. Wood supplies are one of the basic needs, namely energy, of rural households. If there is no wood to gather, household incomes are stretched further in order to buy other sources of energy. This can worsen the poverty already existing. In the process of wood gathering, indigenous trees are destroyed. Therefore, if communities could create their own sources of energy and at low cost, as in local woodlands, this would protect our natural vegetation, as well as save money.

This is where community forestry becomes a means of combating, or alleviating, the impact of poverty. Women are the ones who benefit most from community forestry. They are saved the burden of having to carry fire wood over long distances. If they are empowered to start their own community forestry projects, major improvements in women’s lifestyles can be achieved. Community forestry can save women a lot of time, a lot of hard labour and a lot of physical stress.

As set out in the White Paper on sustainable forest development in South Africa, community forestry also encourages people to plant indigenous trees to build the local resource base and improve living conditions.

Besides unwisely providing fuel wood, indigenous trees are used on a large scale by traditional healers. This is often most unsustainable. If we are to sustain this natural resource base, we ought therefore to get the community as well as traditional healers involved in the protection of indigenous trees. In this process of participatory development, communities need to be self-reliant.

However, development workers need to understand that they cannot make people self-reliant. People become self-reliant. This is usually the approach adopted by some development workers, especially those with university backgrounds. They seem to impose solutions on people’s problems. In my view, this is the wrong approach. People must be vehicles of their own destiny. It is more a question of attitude than scientific knowledge, money and materials. People must have a feeling of awareness of the environment, and have confidence in themselves to fight their way up from poverty. It must be the people’s own efforts that drive the development process. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mev A M VERSVELD: Voorsitter, Minister, water is lewe. Sedert 30 November 1999 onttrek die Weskus-distriksraad en die Departement van Waterwese en Bosbou daagliks sowat 4 000 kubieke meter water om die groeiende nywerhede en huishoudings in die omgewing van water te voorsien. Dit is nou by die Langebaanweg-akwafer. Die plan is om die onttrekking binne die volgende twee jaar op te skuif na ongeveer 21 000 kubieke meter. Boere langs hierdie Langebaanweg-akwafer is baie bekommerd nadat talle boorgate wat voorheen artesies was nou tot ‘n meter benede die oppervlak gesak het.

Wat is die gevolge hiervan? Van die putte op die plase het opgedroog. Tussen 4 en 5 kilometer van die waterveld het die watervlak met 5 m gesak. Nader aan die pompe het dit reeds met 7 m gesak. Die verskoning hiervoor aangevoer was dat dit as gevolg van die droogtes is. Daar was al voorheen droogtes. Hierdie is nie die eerste een nie, maar nog nooit het die putte opgedroog nie. Vir die eerste keer vandat die mense in hierdie omgewing kan onthou, is rooikransbome besig om hulle blare af te gooi.

Trouens, die bome is besig om dood te gaan, so ook die fynbos en die zonkwasriet. Impakstudies is volgens die wet ‘n voorvereiste. Wat is dan die probleem? ‘n Paar maande gelede is daar op ‘n vergadering gevra of daar enige verbinding tussen die boonste akwafer en die onderliggende een by Langebaanweg is. Die antwoord was nee. Die waarheid is egter dat die boonste akwafer inderdaad gevoed word uit die onderste een. As hierdie waarheid in daardie stadium uitgekom het, sou daar nog verlof toegestaan word vir die onttrekking van water uit die onderste akwafer? Ek glo nie.

Die impakstudies - en dit is die groot probleem, glo ek - word nie geëvalueer nie. In die geval van die Langebaanweg-akwafer is daar die volgende tekortkomings in die impakstudies. Daar is geen voorafstudie van die plantegroei en die bedreigde spesies, en die impak van die dalende watertafel daarop gedoen nie. Alhoewel daar aanvaar is dat die watertafel daar sou daal, is daar geen kritieke limiet vooraf bepaal nie, en/of wanneer onttrekking gestaak of verminder gaan word nie. Daar is geen riglyne ten opsigte van besoedeling nie. Tot op hede is daar nog geen bakteriële en virustoetsings op die water gedoen nie, maar die ontstellendste van alles is, die streekdiensteraad is die impakteerder, die moniteerder en ook die begunstigde. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mrs A M VERSVELD: Chairperson, Minister, water is life. Since 30 November 1999 the West Coast District Council and the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry have daily been drawing approximately 4 000 cubic metres of water to supply the growing industries and households in the surrounding areas. This is now at the Langebaan Road aquifer. The plan is to increase the dehydration to approximately 21 000 cubic metres within the next two years. Farmers adjacent to this Langebaan Road aquifer are very concerned after many boreholes, which previously were artesian, have now dropped to a metre below the surface.

What are the consequences of this? Some of the wells on the farms have dried up. Between 4 and 5 kilometres from the aquifer, the water level has dropped by 5 m. Closer to the pumps it has already dropped by 7 m. The excuse offered was that this was as a result of the droughts. We have had droughts in the past. This is not the first one, but never before have the wells dried up. This is the first time, since people in this area can remember, that rooikrans trees are starting to lose their leaves.

As a matter of fact, the trees are starting to die, as is the fynbos, and the zonkwasriet. According to the law impact studies are a prerequisite. What then is the problem? At a meeting a few months ago the question was asked whether there was any connection between the top aquifer and the subjacent one at Langebaan Road. The answer was no. The truth is, however, that the top aquifer is indeed being fed from the bottom one. If this truth had been revealed at that stage, would permission still have been granted for the dehydration of water from the bottom aquifer? I think not.

The impact studies - and this is the major problem, I believe - are not being evaluated. In the case of the Langebaan Road aquifer the following shortcomings are evident in the impact studies. No prestudy of the vegetation and endangered species, and the impact of the receding water table on them was ever conducted. Although it was accepted that the water table there would recede, no critical limit was determined before the time, and/or when dehydration would be stopped or decreased. There are no guidelines with regard to pollution.

To this day no bacterial or viral tests have been conducted on the water, but the most disturbing of all is that the regional services council, which is making the impact, is the monitor as well as the beneficiary.]

The lack of a proper evaluation makes the present system of EIA requirements useless. The money spent putting together the EIA must be considered a complete waste if there is not a proper evaluation, because - and this is a very sad story - the production of EIAs has, to a certain extent, become a bread and butter issue for a number of consultants. Therefore, the EIAs should be reviewed by an independent panel with the required expertise.

Why do I say this? Let us look at two reports of two experts on the Langebaan Road aquifer, namely Weber of the CSIR and Timmerman. Weber states that the salinity of the upper aquifer is higher than that of the Langebaan Road aquifer. Timmerman states the opposite. Weber states that there is no connection between the upper aquifer and the Langebaan Road aquifer. Timmerman states the reverse.

Toens and Associates were appointed by the SA National Parks Board to undertake an independent and unbiased review of the geohydrological reports in the light of the proposed exploitation of the Langebaan Road aquifer. The SA National Parks specifically requested that this review focus on a number of important geohydrological conclusions contained in these reports that are possibly ambiguous and/or in conflict with one another.

One of the SA National Parks’ main concerns is that a reduction in the availability of fresh ground water to the lagoon will alter its natural salinity levels and thereby negatively impact on the wetland ecosystem, which is an integral part of the West Coast National Park. This system is also a registered Ramsat wetland of international importance.

As a lack of funds is always a problem, a possible way of achieving this independent panel with the required expertise would be if a sum equal to approximately 10% of the cost of the EIA could be set aside for this purpose. This money could fund some of the expenses of a multidisciplinary body to report back to the authorities concerned. Further funding should be the responsibility of the Government or, at least, until the financing on the ``polluter pays’’ principle is worked out.

Ek wil nie en kan nie ‘n oordeel vel oor die tegniese korrektheid aldan nie van die verskillende menings nie, maar dat hulle lynreg van mekaar verskil, is baie seker. In hierdie geval, ter wille van water, ter wille van lewe, doen ek ‘n beroep op die Minister om in die toekoms alle omgewingsimpakstudies wat enige negatiewe effek op water kan hê te laat evalueer deur ‘n onafhanklike liggaam met die nodige kundigheid. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[I cannot and will not pass judgment about the technical correctness of the different opinions, but that they directly differ from one another is very certain. In this case, for the sake of water, for the sake of life, I am making an appeal to the Minister in future to have all environmental impact studies which could have any negative effect on water re-evaluated by an independent body with the necessary expertise.]

Dr E A CONROY: Madam Chairperson, Minister Kasrils, MEC Metcalf and colleagues, in the first instance, I would like to respond to the Minister by saying: ke e: /xarra //ke [Diverse people unite]. I am also relieved to hear from the Minister that the EU considers his department’s book-keeping better than that of the Foundation for Peace and Justice. [Interjections.]

May I mention at the outset that the New NP supports the Water Affairs and Forestry Budget. According to last week’s Mail & Guardian, research by the Rural Development Services Network has shown that 60% of rural people still do not have adequate drinking water and that, I quote: ``government water delivery is in a serious crisis of sustainability’’.

This, while the Reconstruction and Development Programme has promised a safe water supply of 20 to 30 litres per person per day in the short term and an on-site supply of 50 to 60 litres per person per day in the medium term, a timeframe which should have been reached approximately by now.

The same research report apparently indicates that only 26% of water projects were fully operational which would, and I again quote: ``imply 780 000 benefactors rather than the 3 million claimed by the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry.’’ This can very likely be attributed to, inter alia, budget cuts in water provision which amounted to 21,6% in the 1999- 2000 budget and 3,6% in the present budget.

Hoewel die Nuwe NP, soos ek aan die begin van my toespraak genoem het, die begroting steun, doen ek dit egter nie sonder ‘n paar woorde van kritiek nie. Uit bogenoemde aangehaalde kritiek uit die pers, hetsy dit geregverdig is al dan nie, en saamgelees met die res van die begroting, wil dit voorkom - die Minister moet my maar korrigeer as ek verkeerd is - asof die departement, waarvan die gestelde doel onder andere is om die beskikbaarheid van water op nasionale vlak te verseker, die begrotingsnitte ten opsigte van watervoorsiening gemaak het om hom in staat te stel om vir verhoogde personeeluitgawes voorsiening te kan maak.

Dit blyk uit die begroting dat, ná professionele en spesiale dienste asook oordragbetalings, elk met ‘n beraamde uitgawe van om en by R1 miljard, personeel die grootste enkele hap van ietwat meer as R421 miljoen, of 16%, uit die totale begroting van R2,6 miljard neem.

Hoewel die totale begroting nie eens met 1% oor dié van verlede jaar toeneem nie, verteenwoordig personeeluitgawes in vanjaar se begroting ‘n toename van R113,8 miljoen, oftewel 37%, die grootste styging in die begroting in randterme.

Dit is dan ook geen wonder nie, aangesien die sinsnede ``die koste van die die nuwe salarisverhogings, asook die deurdrakoste van die verbetering van diensvoorwaardes ten opsigte van 1999-2000’’ soos ‘n refrein voorkom in feitlik elke program wat ‘n toename toon. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Although the New NP, as I mentioned at the beginning of my speech, supports the budget, I will not do so without a few words of criticism.

From the above-mentioned criticism quoted from the press, whether justified or not, and read in conjunction with the rest of the budget, it would appear - the Minister will have to correct me if I am wrong - as if the department, of which the stated mission is, inter alia, to ensure the availability of water at a national level, has made the budget cuts in respect of water supply to enable it to provide for increased personnel expenditure.

It has become evident from the budget that, after professional and special services as well as transfer payments, each with an estimated expenditure of around R1 billion, personnel takes the single biggest slice of a little over R421 million, or 16%, from the total budget of R2,6 billion. Although the total budget does not increase by more than 1% over that of the previous year, personnel expenditure in this year’s budget represents an increase of R113,8 million, or 37%, the biggest increase in the budget in rand terms.

This is also not surprising then, because the phrase ``the costs of the new salary improvements, as well as the carry-through cost of the improvement of conditions of service for 1999-2000’’ appears like a refrain in virtually every programme that has showed an increase.]

I shall, however, be doing an injustice to the Minister and the department if I were to conclude without also having presented them with a compliment where it is deserved.

In an address to the NCOP conference on disaster management last Thursday, Minister Kasrils elucidated the serious way in which they see the role they should be playing with regard to the line-function aspects of disaster management, namely of floods, droughts and fires. He also pointed out the department’s proposed role as convener of the floods working group which will form part of the overall national disaster management strategy. He proposed the introduction of a national fire reaction system which will provide a more co-ordinated approach to especially bush, veld and forest firefighting in the country.

In a country such as ours, where we either have a feast of overindulgence in the form of flash floods, or famine in the shape of protracted droughts which, in turn, invariably lead to runaway veld and forest fires, our Department of Water Affairs and Forestry can surely be commended for the strategic, vital and critical role it is playing in the management of disasters of which we have had more than our quota during the past few months.

Ms M METCALF (Gauteng): Madam Chairperson, I want to congratulate the Minister on his budget speech and say that the Gauteng province will certainly be supporting the passing of his budget.

The way that he spoke in terms of the human implications of his work on a daily basis, for women in particular, makes us understand very clearly that he has an understanding of the profound importance of this portfolio, of his new billeting, which he is so clearly enjoying.

I know that common wisdom, when one talks to people around our provinces in this country, is that there is often a sense of puzzlement that we should indeed have a Minister of Water Affairs or that we indeed have to pay services for water, because water is seen as a gift from God. Often people have said that this is something that comes to us from God and ask what the role is of man in the process.

However, I think in South Africa we need to grow much more deeply in our understanding that, indeed, water is a finite resource in this country. We are a semiarid country. The conversion ratio of rain to surface water is extremely low. It is amongst the lowest in the world, and I think everyone is aware that the growing demands for water mean that in the next 30 years we are going to experience at least a 50% increase in the demand for water. So our water, indeed, although it does come from God, has an economic value. It is a finite resource and it is of enormous significance, both socially and economically.

If we look at the social reality of access to water in this country, as Minister Kasrils has already shown, access to water does reflect the inequalities of the past, inequalities which we as a country have committed ourselves to redressing over the years and decades ahead.

Looking at the census statistics from 1996 and doing some reworking of those calculations, I find it very interesting that only 27% of African households had access to piped water in their homes in 1996, whereas 96% of whites had access to piped water. Looking at the number of African people who were dependent on water from dams, rivers and streams, the figure is nearly 20%, but the figure for white people who were dependent on water from those sources is only 0,2%.

We need to recognise that the political and economic distortions that have caused the creation of so many settlements in our country where people live without formal services are, indeed, the legacy of apartheid that we must deal with.

Socially, there are enormous implications from the fact that water is such a finite resource, but also economically. Water is not only an important basic need for citizens in this country, but also very important in our economic activity. In 1996, 70% of our national consumption of water was used in mining, industrial, irrigation and forestry work.

But we also need to be very honest, not only in terms of the social impacts of our history, but also in terms of our environmental impacts. We know that those resource-use patterns have been very exploitative, that industry and agriculture have used water wastefully, with very few incentives, if any, to use it wisely. So we have had a very unsustainable pattern of use of our resources, and we have also had widespread environmental degradation. There has been no incentive to recycle water or to use it on an environmentally sustainable basis.

So we are very aware that there are two key policy issues amongst all of the responsibilities that Minister Kasrils faces. One is to deal with the widespread environmental degradation affecting the basic resource of water, and the second is to manage water distribution in a way which will reach greater social equity.

I think in South Africa we all are aware that there is extensive surface and ground water pollution, that, typically, the sources and the influences of that are the effluent from industry, the fact that we have so much acid mine drainage, the effect of unproperly treated sewage, the agricultural run-off, the huge effects of litter and, of course, the very many poorly managed landfill sites.

I am very grateful to the Minister for the very close working relationship that he has developed with us in Gauteng as we try to deal with the massive water pollution problem in the Vaal area, particularly by the industrial activities of Iscor. But we need to make sure that we work together much more effectively to ensure that the environmental degradation that has resulted from the poor management of the past is taken forward with much more careful incentives, in terms of both the implementation of our legislation and the introduction of different financial instruments that would, in fact, encourage both the carrot and the stick approach to industry to comply.

I think that one of the most important messages that we need to take to all of our leaders is, indeed, that there is an integral link between environmental health and economic health; that we cannot have a sustainable economy without sustainable environmental practices.

I think the question of sustainability is something that is poorly understood in the country. We need, throughout the length and breadth of our schools, of our organisations, of our legislatures, indeed, in the work of every parliamentary committee in this House, to constantly remember that we cannot meet the needs of our current generation in a way that compromises the ability of future generations to meet their needs.

So we believe that the work that the Minister needs to do in dealing much more decisively, much more rigorously, in terms of existing legislation, with environmental degradation, is something that we will be working to support the Minister in, much more closely.

We also wish to work with the Minister very closely in ensuring that we meet the needs for greater social justice in the management of water. We want to congratulate the Minister on the stated commitment that he has made today, not only to ongoing work to achieve minimum free amounts of water per person in the country per day, but also to ensuring that we begin to experience differential pricing strategies so that, indeed, the principle of some for all and not more for some is carried forward in our water- management strategies.

Everyone is familiar with Agenda 21 of the Rio conference, which prevailed upon all signatories to that agreement to uphold the principles that proper integrated water-resource management must be based on a perception of water as an integral part of the ecosystem, that it is a natural resource for both social and economic good, and that it must be protected. The principle that came out of the Rio conference is that our priorities, in utilising our water, have to be, firstly, meeting our basic needs, and, secondly, safeguarding our ecosystems. And once we have fulfilled those basic responsibilities beyond those requirements, water users should be charged appropriately for the use of water beyond basic services and basic needs.

So the commitment of the National Water Act of 1998, which does require us to implement changes in the pricing structure to reflect the true environmental and social cost of water, must be taken forward, through the work that the Minister has committed himself to. The Rio conference required that urban dwellers should, by the year 2000, have access to at least 40 litres per day. We understand that our commitments are more modest in this country, but we would urge the Minister and work together with him to ensure that we do put into place a policy framework which arises out of the spirit of the National Water Act and out of the spirit of the National Environmental Management Act, and that is compliant with our commitments to international policy instruments, and that we do develop the appropriate institutional, legal and financial mechanisms to ensure that water policy and its implementation are, indeed, a catalyst for sustainable social progress and for sustainable economic growth.

The experiments that the Minister referred to in places like Hermanus, and other areas, need to be replicated, need to be improved upon, need to be extended to other local governments … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms A ROSSOUW (Western Cape): Hon Chairperson, Minister Kasrils, water is the key to development, both present and future. People depend on water for life. All jobs, be they in industry, in commerce, in agriculture or in tourism, are, in some way, dependent on water.

The current patterns of water use show that in South Africa irrigation accounts for about 52% of water used, while 12% is used for domestic and municipal purposes, 7,6% for industry, 2,7% for mining, 2,7% for power generation and 50% for nature conservation.

Daarom sal lewegewende water ‘n netelige saak bly as ons dit nie omsigtig hanteer nie. Die probleem van ‘n steeds groeiende bevolking wat al hoe meer verstedelik en wat gevoed sal moet word, kan, gesien ons beperkte watervoorrade en in die algemeen laepotensiaal-landbougrond, dalk ‘n groter uitdaging word as wat aanvanklik besef is. Op stuk van sake kan geen land se grondwet waarin die individu se regte omskryf is, die reënval verhoog, die grond dieper en vrugbaarder en minder ontvanklik vir erosie maak nie.

Almal wat ‘n verbintenis met landbou het sal weet dat Suid-Afrika nie ryklik bedeeld is met water nie. Dit is egter nie direk as gevolg van ons lae reënval nie, maar eerder as gevolg van die verdampingstempo van water.

Ons gemiddelde jaarlikse reënval is 600 mm teenoor ‘n wêreldgemiddeld van 860 mm. As gevolg van die verdampingstempo bereik slegs ‘n skrale 9% van ons reënval die riviere. Met ander woorde, 91% van ons water verdamp terug in die atmosfeer.

Landbou is reeds, soos genoem, verreweg ons grootste gebruiker van water. Daarom beskou ons Departement van Landbou dit as sy erns om te bevestig dat ons met ‘n studie wil begin oor die ekonomieser benutting van besproeiingswater. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Therefore life-giving water will remain a thorny issue if we do not deal with it carefully. The problem of an ever-growing population which is becoming increasingly urbanised and which will have to be fed could, given our limited water supplies and generally low-potential agricultural land, perhaps become a greater challenge than initially realised. In the end no country’s constitution in which the rights of the individual are defined, can increase the rainfall and make the ground deeper and more fertile and less susceptible to erosion.

Everyone who is connected to agriculture knows that South Africa is not richly endowed with water. However, this is not directly as a result of our low rainfall, but rather as a result of the rate of evaporation of water. Our average annual rainfall is 600 mm, compared to a world average of 860 mm. As a result of the rate of evaporation, a mere 9% of our rainfall reaches the rivers. In other words, 91% of our water evaporates back into the atmosphere.

As has already been mentioned, agriculture is already by far the largest consumer of water. Our Department of Agriculture therefore considers it a serious matter to confirm that we want to initiate a study on the more economic utilisation of irrigation water.]

The irrigation sector will increasingly become involved in finding balanced solutions within the agricultural sector and between agriculture and other water consumers. Water wastage at farm level may be ascribed to the following factors, amongst others: the complexity of farming and irrigation management, insufficient systems of maintenance, poor designs, ignorance of irrigation scheduling and shortages of proven practical information which is readily available.

The aim of this project is to identify optimal farming practices, including irrigation which promotes efficient water consumption at farm level. The optimal use of irrigation water will be determined by comparing the water consumption and output - kilograms versus monetary value - of different producers at farm level, taking farming practices into account.

According to estimates of the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, nearly 60% of the utilisable surfaces, subterranean and other water resources of the Western Cape are already being extracted for human use.

Suid-Afrika het ook nie groot riviere of die groot ondergrondse watervoorrade waarmee ander lande geseën is nie. Die Oranjerivier, ons grootste rivier, verteenwoordig minder as 10% van Zimbabwe se watervoorraad, en as Suid-Afrika, die Wes-Kaap en elke ander provinsie nie goeie bestuur toepas nie, sal ons watervoorraad nie voldoende wees nie.

Ons opvanggebiede sal bewaar moet word sodat die optimale vloei van riviere verseker kan word. Individue en instansies sal die besoedeling van ons waterbronne ten alle koste moet teenwerk.

Elke inwoner en burger van Suid-Afrika moet onder die besef van die kosbaarheid van ons waterbronne gebring word sodat elkeen sy deel sal bydra om dit te bewaar, anders sal ons binne ‘n dekade of wat probleme met die verskaffing van water ondervind. Die Werk-vir-waterprojek wat reeds in 1995 begin is, is daarom des te meer lofwaardig, en ons begin die vrugte daarvan pluk. Afgesien van die werkgeleenthede wat die projek skep, vereenselwig dit die bewaring van ons skaars waterbronne met die onderhoud van die unieke biodiversiteit in die Wes-Kaap.

Ons in die Wes-Kaap is trots daarop dat ons een van die grootste en eerste implementeringsagente van die program is. Die projek, onder die vaandel van ons nuutgestigte Wes-Kaapse Natuurbewaringsraad, verskaf werk aan omtrent 3 000 histories agtergeblewenes van wie 50% vroue is. Bykans 40 individuele projekte is hier ter sprake.

Konserwatief geskat is omtrent 1,2 miljoen ha grond in die Wes-Kaap met indringerplante besmet. Die afgelope jaar het ons ook gesien hoe nuwe projekte momentum aan die ontwikkeling van opkomende kontrakteurs gee, wat op sy beurt verhoogde produktiwiteit en groter ekonomiese bemagtiging teweeg sal bring.

Daar is tans tientalle voorbeelde in die Wes-Kaap van die private inwerkingstelling van hierdie projek. Die provinsiale departement van landbou het reeds ‘n noemenswaardige finansiële bydrae gemaak tot die sukses van projekte in Credokrans en Elsenburg. Die projekbestuurder en die provinsiale departement van ekonomiese sake onderhandel tans oor moontlike vennootskappe ten opsigte van die opleiding van kontrakteurs en die potensiaal om sekondêre industrieë te ontgin soos die waardetoevoeging tot afgekapte materiaal.

Moontlikhede word ook ondersoek oor hoe die provinsie meer regstreekse finansiële hulp aan grondeienaars kan verleen wat in vennootskap met die Departement van Waterwese en Bosbou ‘n bydrae wil lewer om van die ongewenste indringerplante op hul grond ontslae te raak. Dit is ‘n neiging wat aangemoedig word omdat die behoefte die begroting ver oorskry. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[South Africa also does not have the big rivers or the large subterranean water resources with which other countries have been blessed. The Orange River, our biggest river, represents less than 10% of Zimbabwe’s water supply, and if South Africa, the Western Cape and every other province does not implement good management, our water supply will not be sufficient.

Our catchment areas will have to be preserved so that the optimal flow of rivers can be ensured. Individuals and institutions will have to counter the pollution of our water resources at all costs. Every inhabitant and citizen of South Africa must be brought to the realisation of the preciousness of our water resources so that each one can play his part to preserve it, otherwise we will experience problems with the provision of water within a decade or so. The Working for Water project, which was already initiated in 1995, is therefore even more praiseworthy, and we are beginning to reap the benefits thereof. Apart from the job opportunities which the project creates, it associates the conservation of our scarce water resources with the maintenance of the unique biodiversity in the Western Cape.

We in the Western Cape are proud of the fact that we are one of the biggest and first implementation agents of the programme. The project, under the banner of our newly established Western Cape Nature Conservation Board, provides work to approximately 3 000 historically disadvantaged people, of whom 50% are women. Nearly 40 individual projects are involved here.

Conservatively estimated, approximately 1,2 million ha of land in the Western Cape are contaminated by alien vegetation. During the past year we have also seen how new projects have given momentum to the development of emerging contractors, which in turn will lead to increased productivity and to economic empowerment.

There are currently numerous examples in the Western Cape of the private implementation of this project. The provincial department of agriculture has already made a significant financial contribution to the success of projects in Credokrans and Elsenburg. The project manager and the provincial department of economic affairs are currently negotiating about possible partnerships with regard to training of contractors and the potential to exploit secondary industries such as the value added to chopped material.

Possibilities are also being investigated as to how the province can render more direct financial assistance to landowners who, in partnership with the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, want to make a contribution to getting rid of the undesired alien vegetation on their land. This is a trend which should be encouraged because the need far exceeds the budget.]

However, this must take place in a spirit of co-operation and not coercion. We in the Western Cape are committed to assisting in negotiated compliance with legislation in this regard. If the department makes sufficient resources available, the Working for Water project, managed by the province, has already proved that co-operative governance can work, if done in a mutually beneficial manner.

Natuurbewaring in die Wes-Kaap het talle suksesverhale. Verhoogde produktiwiteitsvlakke in Genadendal is een van die voorbeelde. Die projek verskaf kindersorg en ‘n goeie MIV/vigs-program en ons is trots op die feit dat die Wes-Kaap hom met dié inwerkingstellingsprogram onderskei het. Na aanleiding van die sukses van dié projek word daar gehoop dat beter koördinering tussen die onderskeie departemente en die provinsie tot groter waardetoevoeging sal lei.

Studies en navorsing van die WNNR het bevestig die uitroei van indringerplante het wel bygedra tot verhoogde waterafvloei, in sommige gevalle soveel as 30%. Ons is optimisties dat die loodsprojekte in die Wes- Kaap om natuurlike vyande van indringerplante te gebruik om die probleem hok te slaan ook sal slaag. Die verantwoordelike toepassing van biologiese beheer is kritiek noodsaaklik om die bedreiging van indringerplante die hoof te bied. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Nature conservation in the Western Cape has many success stories. One of the examples is increased productivity levels in Genadendal. The project provides childcare and a good HIV/Aids programme and we are proud of the fact that the Western Cape distinguished itself with this introductory programme. In response to the success of this project it is hoped that improved co-ordination between the various departments and the province will lead to greater value adding. Studies and research by the CSIR have confirmed that the eradication of alien vegetation has indeed contributed to increased water drainage, in some cases by as much as 30%. We are optimistic that pilot projects in the Western Cape to use natural enemies of alien vegetation to combat the problem will also succeed. The responsible application of biological control is critically necessary to combat the threat of alien vegetation.]

All South Africans can contribute to change the way we all think about water, the way we all use water and the way we value and conserve the most essential of our natural resources. [Applause.]

Chief M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, a man’s face is like a book. One can read anger, happiness or frustration in his face.

In the region called Bushbuckridge in the Northern Province, there is a village called Oakley. It consists of no fewer than 18 000 people. Our mothers and sisters wake up between about 3 and 4 am to queue for water. Rising that early is no guarantee that one will definitely get water.

There is an area called Linting in the southern region around Lebowakgomo. The whole community relies on three hand pumps for water. In this community families are not allowed to fetch more than three 20-litre containers of water. This is a local arrangement. If a family, by any chance, exceed their allocation, they will be seriously reprimanded or a village committee will call them to account.

In the central region around Pietersburg, there is a village called ga- Makanye. For fresh and clean water, this community has to rely on the existing water supply from Mankweng near Turfloop.

Thohoyandou is one of the areas found in the northern region. In this region there are areas such as Tshipise in the far north. Families who have the means will go to the extent of hiring vans to fetch water from neighbouring towns. The Tshipise community survives on two hand pumps.

There is a village called eka Nkuri in the Lowveld region. This village is a few kilometres away from Giyani. Communities are not allowed to use tap water for washing or laundry. They can only do their washing in the river, where the water is so polluted. [Interjections.]

In the bushveld region, near Nylstroom, there is an area called Phahameng. Those who know Nylstroom very well need not be reminded what kind of people stay in that town. Water reticulation in this area is not up to scratch. Much can still be done to improve water supply in this area.

Tshamahansi is one of the villages in the western region, near Potgietersrus. Mapela is one of those villages in the western region. The said villages have few taps in their village streets. In most cases, those taps are dry for weeks. One woman sustained serious injuries because she was shoved and pushed by other women who were also trying to get those few drops of drinking water.

When the ANC came to power in 1994, we said that enough is enough. [Interjections.] We said that our people could not lead normal lives under such conditions. We cannot allow our people to fight for water in rivers with animals. I am glad to realise that the Government is busy with water projects to alleviate those hardships experienced by our people. We are optimistic that when these water projects are completed, water shortages in our communities will be a thing of the past. I would like to tell the hon the Minister to keep up the good work.

There are no more items. [Laughter.] There was a time when forestry was not taken seriously in our country. We are aware that there are processes undertaken by this Government to commercialise forestry plantations. Our people want some assurances as to the advantages of commercialising these forestry plantations. We would be glad if the hon the Minister could brief this Council on the criteria which will be used when categorising, or whatever, these forestry plantations. We would also like to know how plantations such as Salique, Welgevonden and Hebron have been categorised.

We also want to know, with regard to some of the equipment in the forests which are going to be commercialised, whether the investors who are going to take over are going to take over the equipment, or whether they are going to buy the equipment from the Government. We would also be glad if the Minister could comment on how the new investors in these forestry plantations are going to plough back into our communities. We are satisfied with the direction that the department is taking. It is clear that there is light at the end of the tunnel. The department is using the right channels. The team in the hon the Minister’s department is a capable panel.

We have a saying in Sepedi: Kodumela moepa thutsi ga go lehumo le letswago kgauswi. [Perseverance is the mother of success.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member …

Chief M L MOKOENA: I am listening, Chairperson. [Laughter.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I will respect your chieftainship. Just finish your sentence. [Laughter.] Your time has expired. [Laughter.]

Chief M L MOKOENA: I am humbled, Chairperson. [Laughter.] The ANC supports this Budget Vote. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

Mr M M MACKENZIE (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, hon Minister, time and tide and the SA Airways wait for no man.

Amalungu azongixolela uma ngikhuluma ulimi oluvela ezulwini. [Uhleko.] [Members of Parliament will forgive me for speaking Zulu. [Laughter.]]

The Government’s policy of bringing potable water to the people, as a basic human right, has created expectations, particularly amongst the rural communities of KwaZulu-Natal. They now expect water in the near future. The reality is, however, somewhat different, in that despite the large injections of capital and the considerable manpower hours spent on this, the process of delivery is far too slow. Now the heartbreaking fact is emerging that it will be many years before rural people will have their water as promised.

Ngempela, abasemakhaya basazoqhubeka nokuphuza udaka kule minyaka ezayo. [Of course, rural people will continue drinking unclean water in the coming years.]

Scrutiny has shown that there is a further anomaly emerging, and that is the disparity in spending by the department on community water supply to the provinces. It will be seen that the most populous provinces are the worst off. In fact, the allocation to KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape is way off when the two-year estimate of the population who do not have water to the RDP standard is taken into consideration.

Ngicela ukubuza kuNgqongqoshe ukuthi senzeni? Senzeni bo? [I would like to ask the hon the Minister: What wrongs have we committed? I repeat: What wrongs have we committed?]

What is more alarming, however, is that provinces such as the Northern Cape, with the population without water estimated at 100 000, enjoy a per capita expenditure of R563 against a miserable R76 per capita in the Eastern Cape, and an equally miserable R90 per capita in KwaZulu-Natal. It must be asked whether the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry has an equitable policy towards the provision of supplies, or is it a case of the squeaky wheel that gets the oil?

The people who need it most are now the worst affected. Not to put too fine a point on it, a close look will show that one of the problems is that there is no one who speaks for the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry in the province, and as water affairs is a national competence, this results in a split response to a national problem, because the provincial departments of agriculture and environmental affairs, the Department of Public Works and the Department of Provincial and Local Government each have a responsibility for water matters that relate to their specific areas of competency. It is therefore very difficult for the provinces to speak with one voice on water issues.

Although a provincial liaison committee, a PLC, as well as the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry Minmec, meet regularly, these forums are generally not attended by the Departments of Public Works and of Local Government. Consequently, matters affecting them are seldom addressed. A case in point is the per capita funding mentioned, which affects the Department of Provincial and Local Government, but is being raised by the Department of Agriculture. We are told that the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry is attempting to address these issues by restructuring the PLCs and the Minmecs, but this has not yet happened.

The recent floods and the past floods in KwaZulu-Natal have left behind a lesson which must be acted upon and, at the same time, be an action which can possibly facilitate a development area. Nongoma is the centre of a huge area which is severely underdeveloped and therefore economically depressed.

If one looks south of here, there are a number of beautiful dam sites on the black Umfolozi River which have been identified. In particular, there is a large area which is eminently suitable for irrigation, which could play a major role in poverty alleviation in this area.

The building of a dam would also act as an assurance when erratic flows are experienced in times of drought, and also as a check on those devastating floods that ruin agriculture on the Mfolozi flood plain. In addition, this storage would also act as a reserve for the fast-growing Richards Bay- Empangeni area. A feasibility study is required. However, we are told that the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry have no funds to initiate such a study.

The provincial department of agriculture is therefore prepared to contribute towards such a study in order to get it started, and thus be able to address the dire need of a people who are crushed by poverty and growing hunger. Red tape now rears its head as the new National Water Act requires that before any new development can take place in a catchment, the reserve needs to be calculated. This reserve makes provision for human, animal and environmental needs in that catchment, and the determination of this all-important reserve is a complex, time-consuming and expensive process.

The emerging result of this process is that there are delays which are seriously slowing down service delivery. We request the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry to be more pragmatic in their approach in order to meet the demands of the people, and thus to please determine with haste a means of funding the research of a reserve.

Veld fires are an age-old problem and, once again, require some sort of work in tandem with the community in order that responsibility can be taken for sound veld management, with the aim of using fire as a tool rather than as a threat. Extension officers who now work for the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, as well as those of Agriculture, now need to get together in order to help communities combat wildcat fires that threaten to reduce grazing, which is the only reserve that most of the rural people have for a long winter, and threaten loss of cattle through starvation if there is nothing held in reserve. We therefore ask the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry to work in very close association with the Department of Agriculture in developing some sort of cycle that is observed and is easy to handle from the community’s point of view.

The destruction of grassland, in particular, denies essential grazing and this, as I said earlier, will result in animals dying off. Lastly, we need also to look at a clear link-up with the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry and provincial agriculture on a system in which the evaluation of a catchment and catchment management is done on a pro forma basis that does not require long, drawn-out investigations which would only add to the hardship which is being experienced by people in these catchments.

Okokugcina, uNgqongqoshe ngizomchazela ukuthi kusekude ngaphambi kokuba indaba yaseDukuduku ilungiswe. [Lastly, I will explain to the hon the Minister that it is still early enough to get the Dukuduku problem sorted out.]

There is a long way to go before we can conclude that the Dukuduku issue has been successfully fixed, because the Minister will never regenerate that forest in his lifetime or mine. It has now been severely set back and even though it is in a prime growth area - and I know that there are rampant criminals there and so on - if the Minister has alternative land, I appeal to him to move the people. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

Ngithi kuNgqongqoshe: Nyakaza mfowethu. [Uhleko.] [Ihlombe.] [I would like to urge the hon the Minister to do something. [Laughter.] [Applause.]]

Mr R M NYAKANE: Chairperson, I am going to cover the same area that my hon chief here covered. So there will be some overlapping in my speech. I do not want to waste time, except to emphasise the issue or the urgency of the need for water, especially in the western region of the Northern Province.

He mentioned a few villages in the western region. However, I want to draw the attention of this House to the two areas which also experience acute shortages of water supply, and they are the Koedoes and Rebone rural councils, as well as the Palala and Ellisras rural councils that are situated in the western region. These areas are definitely in trouble. In order to express the gravity or magnitude of the problem there, water is being sold there at 50 cents per 20 litres. Therefore the situation there is one in which those who have tend to exploit those who do not have. I would humbly request the Minister to pay attention to this particular issue.

I refer to the western region of Northern Province because of one advantage in that area, namely that we have the Mogalakwena River which flows throughout the year. During the apartheid regime a dam was built approximately 15 km away from these local councils. That dam was specifically built for fishing and recreational purposes. Perhaps we could look into that source to see whether we could help those people living in that area.

I would like to commend the department for Programme 2, in that given the flood problem we had recently I realise that we have a programme here in which to conduct studies or investigations into floods and warning systems. I think this is a breakthrough in that in future it could help us to predict floods in advance. We hope that this will be a success. I would like also to congratulate the Minister on Programme 1, namely administration, in terms of which the department had the foresight to set aside 531 units of bursaries for future children.

Under Programme 5: Regional Planning, I realise that the Minister will be embarking on projects throughout South Africa. These 386 projects are on the implementation of water services. I have observed that the Minister has allocated 30 projects to the Northern Province. I know he might not have a ready answer at the moment, but I would like to know how he is going to spread these 30 projects amongst the seven regions of the Northern Province.

Lastly, the Minister touched on a very interesting aspect of vandalism in the villages. This vandalism attitude on the part of our people in the villages is seen when they break pipes and service tanks. There is also the problem of diesel for pumping water into service tanks.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, your time is up.

Mr R M NYAKANE: I would urge that the Minister seriously look into this particular matter. Although time has run out, we have no problem with the passing of this particular Vote. [Applause.]

Mr S C T MAKWEYA (Northern Cape): Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members of Parliament, esteemed officials, ladies and gentlemen, if I were to ask members to characterise the Northern Cape province in one word, some would say vast'', some would sayempty’’, but probably most would say ``dry’’.

The dryness of the province is a natural characteristic that has determined much of its geography and history. It is a dry land that has discouraged settlement, so that it only has about 800 000 residents while occupying almost a third of the country’s area. It has a population density of less than two people per square kilometre. The dryness has determined the land use and land ownership patterns, in which huge farms based on extensive grazing of cattle, sheep and wildlife are the norm.

We all recognise the vital importance of water. One has only to visit Namaqualand at the right moment to witness the miracle of water as a life- giving force. But, all over the province, the enormous impact water has had in shaping the landscape can also be seen in the mountains of the Richtersveld, the many other hill ranges, the Orange River valley as it cuts through the Asbesberg, or the saltpans between Calvinia and Kenhardt. It is not surprising that the Batswana settled and moved up and down the Vaal and Harts more than 150 years ago, or that Kuruman with its amazing ``eye’’ became a significant centre that long ago. Nor is it surprising today, as we look to the future, that we are embarking upon the Gariep Special Development Initiative - something the Minister has alluded to.

Although borehole technology has allowed settlement to occur far from surface water sources, and dams with their pipelines can now support cities relatively far from rivers, the fact remains that water is a determinant of where and at what expense development can take place. Irrigation technology has allowed us to utilise river water to grow crops at some distance from the water source, but the reduction and removal of subsidies is forcing farmers to concentrate on higher value crops with increasingly demanding levels of management - illustrating very pointedly the impact of the cost of water on land use. Land close to a river is obviously more desirable than land far from it. This has always been the case. Farmers wanted river frontage, and white settlers did their utmost to ensure that they got all they could. As the cost of water goes up, and access to water becomes stricter, so does the cost of land adjacent to the river.

Herein lies one of the challenges facing the Northern Cape. We are progressing relatively well in our land reform programme. We are extremely grateful for the promise of 4 000 new hectares of water rights, and we are determined to ensure that this precious gift is used to redress some of the inequalities of past land policy. Riverfront land is expensive to purchase at market rates, especially where it runs alongside irrigable soils. The development of irrigation systems is also extremely expensive and the management of these systems requires particular skills and experience.

Our aim is, at its root, to see new farmers, who are by definition those who have little in the way of skills, experience or capital, benefit from the new water rights. Capital is difficult and expensive to raise. Good farm managers who are willing to work in the Northern Cape are hard to find. These issues exist even where we have restitution and redistribution of communities in place - in places such as Riemvasmaak, Witbank and Goodhouse. We are facing an uphill battle. It will take time, but we believe that we do have individual commercial farmers here and there who are willing to support new communities, equity schemes, farmer mentor programmes and other methods that will lead to a broader representation of people in the agricultural sector.

With water so precious to us, we are also very conscious of the need to maintain its quality. We do not ever wish to be in the position of the Ancient Mariner lost at sea saying, as we stand on the banks of the Orange River, ``water, water everywhere, Nor any drop to drink.’’ This will happen if we allow our fresh water sources to become excessively polluted. We feel the need to ensure that waste water is rendered safe for reuse, whether this comes from mining operations, urban centres or agriculture itself. As we assume responsibility for waste management at provincial level, one of our goals must be to ensure that no waste contaminates our surface or ground water resources.

I wish to draw this assembly’s attention to one of many types of contamination facing us, namely the pollution of the Orange River by unrehabilitated asbestos mine dumps in the Prieska area. We do not know the full scale of this contamination nor the degree to which the river is affected, but we do know the tragic impact asbestos has on ordinary people, and we are determined to support the raising of funds to address this issue. Coincidentally, we had a meeting this morning with the portfolio committee on environmental affairs and they told us that asbestos fibres cause no harm when they are dumped into a river. We are not convinced by that argument, and we would be happy if that issue could be taken up.

We have experienced one of the ironies around the issue of water this past year. Like its opposite sign, fire, we cannot do without it, but we can also suffer disastrously if it gets out of control. Arid areas such as the Northern Cape are known for droughts and flash floods. There is no such thing as an average year. Until this year, the record rainfall for the Richtersveld area was 55 mm for the whole month of September. This year, that record was more than shattered by rainfall exceeding 100 mm all in one day - in the wrong season. It is only nine months ago that my office was dealing with the impact of a long drought. Yet this rainy season has seen vineyards as well as livestock ranches ravaged by floods. One month, the farmers are praising God for good rains; two months later, they are praying that the rain will not spoil the harvest. Others blame the devil when it rains too much. Last year, when we discussed disaster relief, we referred to drought, whereas this year, we refer to floods. This is the reality of the Northern Cape. Die boere vra ons: wat de donner gaan aan? [The farmers ask us: What in thunder is going on?] [Laughter.]

We recognise the importance of water, both when it is scarce and when it is overabundant. The challenge facing us now is to manage it sustainably. This means not only using our apportioned quantity equitably, but ensuring its long-term quality. This is not something that one department can do on its own. It requires the consistent co-operation and co-ordination of all water- using sectors such as agriculture, fishing and forestry, mining and energy, commerce and manufacturing, urban development, conservation and environment, and even tourism for that matter. This is our challenge, and we welcome aboard all who will work with us to meet it. Let us have a toast to water! [Applause.] Dr H E MATEME (Northern Province): Modulasetulo wa ntlo ye e hlomphegago, maloko a ntlo, Tona e hlomphegago, ke lethabo le legolo go tswa go profense yeo e ithekgilego ka Limpopo River … [Chairperson, hon members, hon Minister, it is my pleasure to come from the province that leans on the Limpopo River …]

… to come and participate in this debate in this august House.

Bjale ka ge difoka t[s]a profense ya gešu di šetše di boletse … [As the royalty from my province have already said …]

The royalty from my province have already made their input, as have all other members who have given the background to this whole topic. I find it fitting that, as the last speaker in the group from my province, I should, without wasting time, focus on the way forward.

Rena ba profense ya Leboa, re re morwa wa Kasrils le badirisani ka yena ba gole ba kake tlou, dit[s]hukudu e be ba[s]imane. [We in the Northern Province say that Minister Kasrils and his colleagues should grow and grow bigger as they are doing a wonderful job.]

I will translate it after this meeting to save time now. I wish that the Minister of Defence had stayed till we made our presentation. We think, as a democratic Government transforming society in our country, that there is an expression we need to learn from the military. I may not quote it properly. It is said that the pace of any army is assessed in terms of its slowest soldier. Now, as we transform the country, the tendency has always been that the pace will be determined by the place where there are the brightest lights - namely Gauteng and the Western Cape. From now onwards, we would like to propose to the democratic Government that we should do as the army does. Let us assess the pace of transformation according to the pace set by those who were hit the hardest by the previous era. [Applause.]

In proposing the way forward, we would like to start by proposing a marriage between the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry and the Department of Education, through its arbour programme, as well as the Department of Communications. It is a pity the Minister of Communications is not here.

The programmes of the democratic Government are very good. Our able Ministers are in their offices. We have provinces hard at work, but where do things go wrong? As a person from a rural province, we feel that the rural masses of this country are not on board. [Interjections.] Firstly, they are not on board because, much as they would want to watch this debate here on their televisions, they have no televisions. [Interjections.] Much as they would want to read about the Budget and all these other things, the language used in these documents is foreign to them, it is not user- friendly. [Interjections.] Much as they would want to read, the level of illiteracy in some of the rural areas is still very high.

Therefore, as a way forward, we would propose to Government that the Department of Communications should come up with a programme which will enable the progress that this Government is making to filter down to the people who need it most. [Interjections.]

As regards the question of water, this is the suggestion we are bringing from the flood-ravaged province: We are naturally optimistic people. We feel that maybe it was a blessing in disguise for these floods to come when our democracy is only six years old. We have learned lessons which we want to use regarding the proposals for future plans, as we re-engineer those plans. Our information is that all the bridges which were washed away during the floods were those bridges that were designed during the drought period.

Our proposal therefore is, as we re-engineer bridges and dams for this country, let us do so with foresight and let us learn the lessons from the floods. Let us plan for a very long time. The Afrikaans-speaking people say: Goedkoop is duurkoop.'' [A bad bargain is dear at a farthing.] So, as we utilise the budget for this financial year, we are humbly proposing to the Minister that, although we will shout, make a noise, and are in a hurry for progress, he should remember:Goedkoop is duurkoop.’’ [Interjections.] Let us go for quality, let us go for cost-effective plans, so that hundreds of years from now posterity can raise their heads and say that great people lived and planned for them. [Interjections.] Regarding the question of re-engineering, experts inform us that, had we had the foresight and the resources and had we planned ahead, some of the containments along the Limpopo and Olifants Rivers that were damaged by the flood, would not have been damaged as badly as they have been. As we put the meagre resources of the taxpayers of this country to use, we are suggesting that that lesson be taken on board.

The other suggestion we would like to make is that we need to have machinery in place to educate the users of the programmes of the Government how they should enter the process. Farmers in our area complain that this Government has no resources to assist them, but the actual problem is, first and foremost, communication and, secondly, the know-how. We need some part of the budget. We suggest it should be utilised to capacitate those who need to benefit from these programmes.

The bureaucratic line is also putting us at a disadvantage. It moves submissions from the Northern Province from place to place, via the big offices. When it gets to the Minister’s desk it is completely diluted, and it gives a different message altogether. Could the bureaucratic line also be attended to? Last, but not least, on the question of restructuring the forests, we are happy that new bids will be invited. In our province there are people who feel those forests belong to them. They were dispossessed of them, because of our history, but all their bids were turned down. It is encouraging to know that this process will be reopened. Our suggestion is: Nothing for us without us. Please have machinery that will take us on board. [Interjections.]

I want to come to the Arabie Dam in the Northern Province. This can be used as an example of the perceptions on the ground. These perceptions, I think, can be addressed by adequate communication. The local people feel that they must have a campaign to cut off all these pipes which are channelling the water from this dam past their households to some place on the other side. We need a programme to adequately inform our people at grass roots and to take them on board.

As we are moving towards the local government elections, the department should introduce a programme about local government, in order to capacitate, to finance, and to enable that tier of government to come up with its own by-laws, where this is necessary, so that the implementation of the programmes of this Government is not shot in the foot. [Applause.]

Ms B N DLULANE: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, Government’s effort to supply water in rural areas has been minimal. Hence the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry is focusing on reviewing the strategy to find ways to further accelerate service delivery in rural areas without compromising sustainability. New approaches will be developed by the department to ensure that safe water is affordable to all South Africans.

In the province of the Eastern Cape there are too many capital grant funding programmes which focus on water supply to the remote parts of the province, that is the Community Water Supply and Sanitation Programmes of the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, and the Consolidated Municipality Infrastructure Programme, which I will refer to here as the CMIP. Although the CMIP previously had a strong urban focus, the real direction of the programme by Parliament in December 1999 has opened up the opportunity to invest in water supply to remote communities.

The department has already implemented the redirection of the CMIP, and an amount of R50 million has recently been allocated for water to rural areas in the Eastern Cape province. As it will be very important for the two programmes to supplement each other for this purpose, the provincial programme manager for the CMIP in the province has formed a very close working relationship with the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry in the province, and both parties participate at co-ordination meetings.

A promising development with regard to the delivery of water to the rural areas of the province is the drawing up of a multiannual action plan by the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry with the aim of securing possible funding from the European Union.

This will focus the efforts of the different programmes and could also be used to secure further donor funding, and this will be very important in the reduction of the infrastructure backlog. The Department of Water Affairs and Forestry estimates the backlog to be approximately R8 billion with regard to water and sanitation infrastructure.

It is important to note that in the past, sanitation services were neglected in the province, and water to remote areas should not be seen in isolation, as sanitation plays a vital role in the health and hygiene of rural communities. Their sanitation services should be brought up to the same level as developed areas, and the development of water supply or the extension of water supply should not be slowed down. The backlog in sanitation should be taken into account when funds are allocated to the province.

A very important aspect relating to the provision of water to rural communities is the operation and maintenance of those schemes. This means that the infrastructure provided must be the property of a municipality and the municipality must accept this responsibility from the outset of the project. Numerous schemes already exist or are under construction, which must, in turn, be transferred to the municipality. The Department of Water Affairs and Forestry should also give priority to this issue, as well as to the strengthening of technical operations and maintenance capacity of the municipalities.

Very high rainfall was recorded in most areas of the Eastern Cape. Over the past six months this resulted in loss of lives and damage to infrastructure. The biggest impact on communities was the damage to access roads and bridges to remote areas. During December 1999 and January 2000 thunderstorms caused an estimated R40,9 million worth of damage to infrastructure in the province. This was followed by more severe floods during March and April 2000 which caused a further R113,5 million worth of damage.

These floods were so severe in some parts of the province that the national Minister for Provincial and Local Government visited the province. The President also declared some areas of the province disaster areas. The emergency reconstruction command centre has been established and is already functioning in the province, as per the directive from the President, Comrade Thabo Mbeki. The Department of Water Affairs and Forestry also provided an input to this centre.

Veld fires ravaged the northeastern region of the Eastern Cape in 1999. This once again highlighted the threat posed to rural communities through the destruction of homes, livestock and grazing fields, as well as the possible loss of life. During two periods when veld fires occurred, damage of R10,9 million and R6 million was caused by these occurrences.

The following measures were put in place by the Department of Housing and local government to counter the effects of veld fires. A joint initiative between the Department of Housing, local government, the Department of Agriculture and landowners and communities has been initiated to minimise the impact of veld fires. Emergency relief was delivered to affected communities.

This co-ordination of the various programmes to address the infrastructure backlog in the province should be undertaken in the light of poverty and needs of the province. There are 6 000 rural villages with a population of eight million rural people without access to basic water and sanitation services.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, your time is up. [Applause.]

Nksz B N DLULANE: Nathi siliphondo leMpuma Koloni siyayingqina into yokuba sisasela amanzi anezabonkolo, njengokuba ebesitsho uMphathiswa. Siyathemba ukuba ukuba bangakhawulezisa ukuze nathi sifane namanye amazwe, nezinye iingingqi, sisele amanzi acocekileyo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[Ms B N DLULANE: We, as the Eastern Cape province, also confirm the fact that we still drink water that is contaminated with tadpoles, as the Minister said. We hope that the process will be sped up so that we can, like people of other countries and areas, drink clean water. [Applause.]]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, please note that the hon member who is going to speak now, hon member Chabaku, will be making her maiden speech. [Applause.]

Rev M CHABAKU: Chairperson, MECs present, special delegates, the House at large, I want to thank God and the House for enabling me to address this august House for the first time in my life. [Interjections.] I also want to commend the hon the Minister for an all-embracing review which was informative, encouraging and really what we yearn for.

I also commend the Minister for the compassion he showed and expressed in his presentation, especially when he spoke about the poorest of the poor. I really feel good about his leadership. It reminded me of my childhood when I grew up in Western Township, which is between Sophiatown and Newclare. We used the water to wash dishes, to scrub our benches, which were our only furniture, and then to scrub the floor. Thereafter we washed the dust off our feet with it. Only then was it sprinkled on our small vegetable garden. Hence, my love and support for water programmes. [Interjections.] We recycled. So it is part of my lifestyle.

My name, Motlalepula, means ``one who comes with the rain’’. [Interjections.] That may be one of the reasons for my passionate concern about water, for all living things have water, from the tiniest ant to the biggest oak tree. That is why our major provincial concern is about water, which is a vital part of life.

The Free State province shares my deep and sincere appreciation for the help and interest that the national Government gave in the need for water, especially in the areas of Botshabelo, Thaba ‘Nchu and Qwaqwa, which have acute shortages of water and employment. These areas are former homelands with the most acute needs for industry, empowerment and for enabling efforts in the issuance, control, management and usage of water.

For the sake of those who may not know much about Botshabelo, it is a town on its own, made up of people who were evicted from and rejected by other homelands and flung 54 km far out of Bloemfontein. Only their labour was needed, so that even the meagre wages they could get from Bloemfontein ended up on the road, paying for inadequate transport. Botshabelo was established by the previous government, designed and operated with meanness, cruelty and racism. These authorities claimed to be civilised and religious, when they callously uprooted God’s people who had no means of self-sustenance or survival.

We would have liked to develop a venture breeding Telapia, the freshwater fish. But we had to abandon this programme because of drought and the situation that we have there. The few industries on the periphery of Botshabelo are at the entrance to this complex residence and are not adequately funded. Apparently, aliens seem to be the ones who have been preferred to run and own those industries. Water was provided, but God’s people did not have the means to pay for it. The TLC ended up owing Bloemwater R11,95 million, which was finally written off two years later after Botshabelo was proclaimed a municipality. The TLC and the community still pay for the services, even though they have inadequate means.

The Botshabelo council secured funds from the district council for pilot programmes of prepaid meterised water sources in units G and H. Three thousand of them were installed. The treasury observed with great delight that there was a 100% increase in water payment in those two areas. In the light of this progress, the council is applying for funds to the tune of R15 million in order to speed up the project. It also requests that the water debt of R30 million, which was incurred as a capital cost of supplying water to Botshabelo by Bloemwater, be written off. Similar requests have also been made of Bloemwater itself, but Bloemwater has never assisted us, not even with one cent.

The Botshabelo TLC spent R3 million on the installation of 2 700 erven as part of a continual programme on water improvement of the industrial pipeline. Bloemwater, on the other hand, has not been as co-operative as we expected them to be. The water supply is grossly inadequate, even for daily household consumption. Efforts are made to encourage people to create jobs for themselves, even though they have very high debts.

Water is essential to life. It is a basic right of people to have access to water, even though they still owe Bloemwater R7 million for the months of October, November and December of 1999.

There is water that comes from the Katse Dam in Lesotho which goes to the province of Gauteng through the Free State. We therefore request humbly and urgently that the hon the Minister look into that and also think of writing off the $11,5 million owed to Bloemwater, to assist with funds of $30 million to speed up the installation of prepaid water meters and for their management and maintenance. This would include Thaba ‘Nchu with 37 villages, of which one third have no taps, but depend on windmills, and QwaQwa with its backlog in metered water.

We also request that the Minister note that the Free State is aware that eucalyptus trees suck up much of the needed water and are not indigenous to South Africa. However, many of these trees in cities, on farms and in towns act as windbreakers and reduce the amount of topsoil that is blown away by the gusty Free State wind, preventing many rivers from flowing to the ocean with precious topsoil.

In addition, we request that the Minister also encourage investors and entrepreneurs to uplift the Free State as they fly over it and drive through it on their way to Gauteng, the Eastern Cape, the Northern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal, the North West and Lesotho. They should pay for the roads too. [Interjections.]

The Free State is still the bread, beef, lamb and corn basket of South Africa. It is speedily improving to become the industrial outreach provider and service provider. It still provides a steady source of quality medical and surgical care. Some of the best schools, colleges and universities are in the Free State, let alone the significant contributions that the Free State always makes to sport and culture. That is why, despite our poverty and unemployment, we take pride in our province.

Therefore the Free State is rising. It needs further support for survival and self-reliance. May God continue to strengthen the vision we have for ourselves and for the whole of the country. I tried to give my speech in three minutes. Amen. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! I am glad hon members have found the maiden speech elucidating.

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: Madam Chairperson, let me start first of all by beginning with the last speaker. After all, there is the fact that the last speaker has made her maiden speech. Also, as we all know, she is one of our elder colleagues of great and outstanding dignity. I am not saying anything about who was the best, because I found everybody very eloquent. I really listened with great respect and interest and one could note the great unanimity here in terms of the input, for which I thank all the hon members of the NCOP.

However, I feel that I should start with the Free State, because of the maiden speech. I would like to say to the Rev Motlalepula:

Kgotso, Pula, nala! [Peace, rain, greenery!]

In fact, I wish I could say this in every single language for those who are not acquainted with this lovely Setswana saying, which I really think says everything about what we want to see in our country, namely that out of pula'', the rain, emergesnala’’, the greenery, and that is the vegetation, the growth and the development, and from that emerges ``kgotso’’, which is peace. It really inspires me.

I would like to say to the reverend that I followed very closely what she had to say about the Orange River, Botshabelo, and Thaba ‘Nchu. These were areas that I did visit, and I want to tell the hon member that I was taken by my department on a visit to the Caledon River. We drove along it to a pump station which was taking the water out, some 140 km from the Rusfontein Dam near Bloemfontein, cleaning it, putting it into an additional dam to channel it through to the Modder River and bringing that through to the Rusfontein Dam.

At the end of that journey I met the people of Botshabelo and Thaba ‘Nchu and together we opened the new purification plant, which was then pumping the water through to Thaba ‘Nchu, and then back up the Caledon River. What amazed me and the people whom I spoke to was this enormous journey of the water. They all came to me and said that for the first time - and here I think of MEC Mary Metcalfe, who was talking about the rain coming from the clouds - they understood why they must pay for the water, because they could see it did not simply come from the rain into the taps and that it took those long journeys.

Let me say, having noted what was said here by the reverend and all the members, that I carefully took notes of everything that everybody said. My officials are here taking note of what has been said and, clearly, there is no way I am going to be able to respond to every single point made. In fact, the clerk here has asked me to finish just before 17:50 to enable hon members to catch their buses.

I am going to try to focus on some of the most stringent or sharpest barbs, because while a great deal of appreciation was exhibited in the contributions, and an acceptance of what Government is doing and has been trying to do since 1994 on the one hand, hon members are, quite justifiably, doing their work by saying what they said on the other hand. In this regard I want to say to Rev Chabaku, after having gone to open that purification plant and hearing from the people how they then understood where the water came from when they turned on the taps in Botshabelo and Thaba ‘Nchu, that I have not been able to go back. It is difficult to do that because there are thousands of villages in the nine provinces. However, I will go back to Botshabelo and have a glass of water from those taps. I want to assure her that we will check her complaints about the water quality.

Regarding the question of the debt owed to Bloemwater, of course this is something in terms of which I am not empowered to wave a wand and say: ``Forget the debts’’. We know what would happen to the country and that how things would fall apart if we could not go for the cost recovery. It is so unfortunate that with something as vital as water there has to be cost recovery, but it is because of the purification plants, the dams, the pipes, the canals and all these things that then reticulate into the taps that the costs increase.

Of course, we are seeking, with the water boards, to find the best possible way to address this from national through to provincial level and from my department through to the water boards. But as I have said in my address here, we must get things right at the local council level, and we know the problems are there. In a sense I am responding to the kgoši from the Northern Province, to those who have complained about the Arabie situation, the Eastern Cape, the problems of the Northern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and Mpumalanga and everywhere else. Unless we have the questions sorted out on the ground at local level, there is no way that we will solve the problem, because water is a local issue.

I am the national custodian of the water and I have got to make sure that we have a reserve, that we have sufficient water for the environment, for domestic purposes, for the economy and agriculture, that it is pure, that it is clean, that we protect the environment and that we protect water from pollution, etc.

However, by the time we are able, if we can find the capital, to build up at the local village level in sometimes very difficult parts geographically

• remote parts, uphill, inaccessible areas, from across the remote plains of the Free State into the Northern Cape, - we have to have the capacity, management and maintenance at local level which has got to come into operation.

But clearly, the Government cannot underwrite the funding from month to month to month. We can put in the capital costs, but then there has to be a certain degree of cost recovery, and if there is no cost recovery, then yes, we will try to find a way of providing conditional grants. It is quite another story to still look into seeing if we can get the funds from Finance. However, we have got to have the local council level working, whether at Langebaan or wherever, to ensure that the system works, and that is the biggest challenge. So we do know, and I am pleased, in fact.

I do not recoil from the criticism from the nkosi saying: ``Item: This village still does not have water. Item: In this village, the people are having to fight for it. Item: The taps in that village are a problem! Let us know where the problems are, because we have got 20 000 villages or more to reach. It is a question of money, it is a question of time. We started the programme in 1996, in fact, not in 1994. There was a lot of preparation, study, evaluation, and so on to be put in place. The department was a reborn department from 1994.

Then there is the programme in which we try to be systematic about how we deal with the thousands of villages, small towns, bigger towns that are all waiting in a queue. We cannot bring it to everybody all at the same time, so we have tried to get through to all the provinces.

There was an approach from 1995 or 1996 to deal with the various provinces. We knew that in KwaZulu-Natal, in the Northern Province and in the Eastern Cape, we were going to have the biggest backlog because they are the most populous provinces and have the greatest amount of people in the rural areas who are the poorest, etc. So, of course, we could deal, as the reverend pointed out, with the Northern Province, the Northern Cape, the North West and with the Free State to some degree. With the Western Cape and Gauteng, obviously it was quicker because they had infrastructure and, in other areas, there were fewer people to deal with.

So it is a major problem that we still have not succeeded in delivering to the people in all nine provinces. We have the percentages of people in all nine provinces, namely, 2,5% in Gauteng, 1,5% in the Western Cape, a couple of percent in the Northern Cape, 9% in the North West province, 2% or 3% in Free State, etc, who still must be reached.

We have got to, having provided a tremendous amount of capital all round and having tried to do it equitably, begin to pump more funding into those three major provinces. And, as I reported in my speech, we were well aware of the problem in KwaZulu-Natal. However, the hon member from KwaZulu-Natal did not take into account the problems that the Government and the country have had in dealing with KwaZulu-Natal. We could only begin, really, to start getting to grips with the problem well past 1996 or in 1997.

We know about a virtual civil war there, about the violence, and, in the aftermath, we blessedly saw peace returning, but not everywhere all at once. But then there has been - and this was a major problem - tremendous friction in the province, not between two political parties as such, but between new local governments, councillors and amakhosi. There were very big splits, tremendous tensions and suspicions about what the Government was trying to do. It made it very slow.

I can assure hon members - I will have to write to the hon member, but I do not know whether there are any other members here from the province - that the premier of the province … [Interjections] … thanks, I am very pleased to know this - the Minister of Home Affairs, Minister Buthelezi, the monarch and the various MECs will attest to the number of times that I have had discussions with them. Hon members will be reminded that, in my presentation, I told them that I have had a special meeting with the ambassador from the European Union. He told me that they evaluated the country in 1996 when they decided to put forward massive amounts of funds - nearly R100 million into the Eastern Cape and R200 million into the Northern Province, which has helped us so much - and he told me that they decided not to put funding into KwaZulu-Natal at that stage because of the very problems that I referred to. I asked him: Why no funding for KwaZulu- Natal, ambassador?'' I said to him:Ambassador, the situation now is much better, and, in fact, by an injection of donor aid, you will assist us in developing the stability and peace we need to bring people together and move forward. So I give the example about KwaZulu-Natal to the members here.

We are looking at different problems and different ways of trying to deal with them. We are saying, as the kgoši from the Northern Province said after Item, item, item,''Good luck!’’ Bereka thata!'' as I would say in Sesotho or Setswana - he used Tshivenda - meaningWork hard!’’ which is what we are doing. This is what needs to be borne in mind.

Madam Chair, I am looking very anxiously at the time because in two minutes you must call me to order. I would like to say to Mrs Versveld, who gave an excellent contribution, that certainly, the problem of the aquifer is something we are looking at, and, in terms of the National Water Act, we are now able to intervene in the abstraction issues in relation to ground water, and we are dealing with this through the Ministry of Environmental and Tourism. I take note of the environmental impact assessment problem that she has raised.

I would like to say that the question of the clearance of alien vegetation is a very important aspect, as a number of speakers have pointed out. This is clearly one way that we can assist, immediately, with the problem in the Langebaan area in terms of the salinity and so on. I would ask her to give

• and I am sure she probably already has given - her support to that excellent programme.

With regard to Dr Conroy, again on KwaZulu-Natal, he … No, he is not from KwaZulu-Natal, sorry. He talked about the rural development seminal network, in quotes, and about the department and evaluation. These are, in fact, figures that the department, in a very transparent way, has provided to that very NGO. But there is not a crisis, or the kind of crisis he talked about. There are issues of sustainability, which I addressed. And, of course, the points that he made are reflected in the way I have approached the problem, of saying to hon members here all very honestly that, looking at the audit, looking at that mountain of backlog we have got to climb, looking at the limited funds that can come in, it is going to take a long time, and I cannot see this happening by the year 2007.

But before I end, I do want to respond to the hon member from the Northern Province who talked about the need for a way ahead. Our approach to the audit and review, and the fact that through Cabinet, and my approach to Cabinet, they have now asked me to get together with the Minister for Provincial and Local Government and the Minister of Finance mean that, what we are determining to do is, really, in response to the cries that I have heard here today. I am from the city, but when I go to the rural areas - and this portfolio takes me there often - I hear those cries. We have to look at the cries in relation to the question of trying to speed up delivery, finding the ways of doing so and looking at the issue of basic access to water for the poor.

The kgoši asked me about the forestry issue and categories A, B and C. I think that is the last point that I will make. The question was put in a very impassioned way. In relation to that, category A covers the very large tracts of forests that can only be handled through big enterprises with big capital, and we have been looking to foreign investment that will team up with our own people to deal with those tracts of forests.

Category B comes down more to the provincial level where local business can be engaged. Of course, we are looking very intently - the hon member asked about criteria - at the question of partnerships, of black empowerment, and so on.

Category C refers to the very small woodlots where, just as we are dealing with the water situation, we must ensure that those woodlots help these very poverty-stricken people of the rural areas.

Having taken two more minutes than I should have, with the good grace of the hon Chairperson, I feel that, at this point, I must say siyabonga, sekuphelile-ke [Thank you, that is all]. Thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

               NONPROFIT ORGANISATIONS AMENDMENT BILL

            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

Order disposed of without debate.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

                        MOTION WITHOUT NOTICE

                              (Ruling)

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, I would now like to make a ruling on the motion without notice proposed by Mrs Lubidla this morning, 23 May 2000.

During the sitting this morning, Mrs Lubidla proposed a motion without notice pertaining to a case which is currently before our courts. I undertook to study the motion and to give a ruling as to whether the motion deals with a matter that is sub judice.

Rule 48 of the Rules of this House provides that no member, while addressing the Council, may reflect on the merits of any matter on which a judicial decision is pending.

Having studied the motion as proposed by Mrs Lubidla, I am satisfied that it does reflect on the merits of a case before the courts. This is evident in the referral to the incident described in the motion as ``this heinous crime’’.

I will therefore not allow the motion to proceed. The Council adjourned at 17:54. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                        THURSDAY, 18 MAY 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Subcommittee of the Joint Programme Committee on 17 May 2000
     took a decision, in accordance with Joint Rule 216, that the Local
     Government: Municipal Electoral Bill, 2000, be fast-tracked with a
     view to ensuring that the Bill can be passed by both Houses by 23
     June 2000.


     In terms of Joint Rule 216(4) this decision must be tabled in both
     Houses for ratification.


 (2)    Assent by the President of the Republic in respect of the
     following Bill:


     (a)     Fire Brigade Services Amendment Bill [B 63B - 99] - Act No
              14 of 2000 (assented to and signed by President on 12 May
              2000).


 (3)    The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism on 18 May 2000
     submitted a draft of the South African Weather Bureau Bill, 2000,
     and the memorandum explaining the objects of the proposed
     legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint
     Rule 159. The draft has been referred by the Speaker and the
     Chairperson to the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs
     and Tourism and the Select Committee on Land and Environmental
     Affairs, respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
 relevant committees as mentioned below:


 (1)    The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts for consideration and report. It is also referred
     to the Portfolio Committee on Communications and to the Select
     Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises for information:


     (a) Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of
          the South African Telecommunications Regulatory Authority for
          1998-99 [RP 84-2000].


     (b)     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
          of the Ciskei Broadcasting Corporation for 1993-94 to 1996-97
          and the period ended 30 November 1997 [RP 79-2000].


 (2)    The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts for consideration and report. It is also referred
     to the Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy and to the
     Select Committee on Economic Affairs for information:


     (a) Report of the Auditor-General on the Group Annual Financial
          Statements of Soekor (Pty) Ltd for 1997-98 [RP 78-2000].


     (b)     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
          of Enerkom (Proprietary) Limited for 1998-99 [RP 57-2000].


 (3)    The following paper is referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts for consideration and report. It is also referred
     to the Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of
     Life and Status of Women for information:


     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the
     Commission on Gender Equality for 1998-99 [RP 85-2000].


 (4)    The following paper is referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts for consideration and report. It is also referred
     to the Portfolio Committee on Labour and to the Select Committee
     on Labour and Public Enterprises for information:


     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the
     Unemployment Insurance Fund for 1997 and 1998 [RP 77-2000].


 (5)    The following paper is referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts for consideration and report. It is also referred
     to the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs and to
     the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs for
     information:


     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the
     Agricultural Research Council for 1998-99 [RP 40-2000].


 (6)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Health and to the Select Committee on Social Services:


     Report of the Department of Health for 1999-2000 [RP 75-2000].

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Finance:

 List of Shareholders of the South African Reserve Bank as at March
 2000.

1. The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism:

 Report of the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism for 1999-
 2000 [RP 68-2000].


                         FRIDAY, 19 MAY 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following Bill was introduced in the National Assembly on 19
     May 2000 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Firearms Control Bill [B 34 - 2000] (National Assembly -
          sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security -
          National Assembly) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
          notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No
          21193 of 19 May 2000.]

National Council of Provinces:

1. The Chairperson:

 Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:


 Bill passed by National Assembly on 19 May 2000 and transmitted for
 concurrence:


 (a)    Tourism Amendment Bill [B 50B - 99] (National Assembly - sec
     76(1)) - (Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs -
     National Council of Provinces).
                         MONDAY, 22 MAY 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following Bill was introduced in the National Assembly on 22
     May 2000 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Local Government: Municipal Electoral Bill [B 35 - 2000]
          (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Home
          Affairs - National Assembly) [The Bill has been fast-tracked -
          see Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 410.]


 (2)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 22 May 2000 in terms of
     Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bill as a section 75
     Bill:


     (i)     Identification Amendment Bill [B 33 - 2000] (National
          Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs -
          National Assembly).


 (3)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 22 May 2000 in terms of
     Joint Rule 160(4), classified the following Bills as section 76
     Bills:


     (i)     Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences
              Amendment Bill [B 31 - 2000] (National Council of
              Provinces - sec 76) - (Select Committee on Public
              Services - National Council of Provinces).


     (ii)    Road Traffic Management Corporation Amendment Bill [B 32 -
              2000] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76) - (Select
              Committee on Public Services - National Council of
              Provinces).


 (4)    The following changes have been made to the membership of Joint
     Committees, viz:


     Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women:
     Discharged: Abrahams, L A.


     Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Youth, Children and
     Disabled Persons:


     Appointed: Dithebe, S L.


 (5)    The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to
     the relevant committees as mentioned below:


     (i)     The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
           on Finance and to the Select Committee on Finance:


           List of Shareholders of the South African Reserve Bank as at
           March 2000.


     (ii)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio
           Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism and to the
           Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs:


           Report of the Department of Environmental Affairs and
           Tourism for 1999-2000 [RP 68-2000].


     (iii    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio
           Committee on Trade and Industry and to the Select Committee
           on Economic Affairs for consideration and report:


          (a) Constitution of the United Nations Industrial Development
              Organisation (UNIDO), tabled in terms of section 231(2)
              of the Constitution, 1996.


          (b) Explanatory Memorandum to the Constitution.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Report of the Auditor-General on the Secret Services Account, the
 Related Departmental Accounts and the Security Services Special Account
 for 1998-99 [RP 125-99].

1. The Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:

 (1)    Government Notice Number 1466 published in the Government
     Gazette No 20692 dated 10 December 1999, Amendment of Item 8 of
     Government Notice No 1584 of 4 October 1996, made in terms of
     section 10(2)(a) of the National Monuments Act, 1969 (Act No 28 of
     1969).


 (2)    Government Notice Number 127 published in the Government Gazette
     No 20705 dated 10 December 1999, Board Notice No 127 of 1999, made
     in terms of section 11(7) of the Pan South African Language Board
     Act, 1995 (Act No 59 of 1995).


 (3)    Government Notice Number 128 published in the Government Gazette
     No 20705 dated 10 December 1999, Designation of a Provincial
     Language Committee: KwaZulu-Natal, made in terms of section 8(8)
     of the Pan South African Language Board Act, 1995 (Act No 59 of
     1995).


 (4)    Government Notice Number 52 published in the Government Gazette
     No 20820 dated 28 January 2000, Designation as a conservation
     area: The Air Force Base Swartkop in Pretoria, made in terms of
     section 5(9) of the National Monuments Act, 1969 (Act 28 of 1969).


 (5)    Government Notice Number 83 published in the Government Gazette
     No 20837 dated 4 February 2000, Approval of official places names
     by the National Place Names Committee.


 (6)    Government Notice Number 158 published in the Government Gazette
     No 20877 dated 18 February 2000, Application for registration of
     heraldic representations and objections thereto, made in terms of
     section 7A and B of the Heraldry Act, 1962 (Act No 18 of 1962).


 (7)    Government Notice Number 159 published in the Government Gazette
     No 20877 dated 18 February 2000, Registration of heraldic
     representations, made in terms of section 10 of the Heraldry Act,
     1962 (Act No 18 of 1962).


 (8)    Government Notice Number 160 published in the Government Gazette
     No 20877 dated 18 February 2000, Registration of heraldic
     representations, made in terms of section 10 of the Heraldry Act,
     1962 (Act No 18 of 1962).

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Select Committee on Social Services on the Nonprofit Organisations Amendment Bill [B 9 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 22 May 2000:

   The Select Committee on Social Services, having considered the subject of the Nonprofit Organisations Amendment Bill [B 9 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

                     TUESDAY, 23 MAY 2000
   

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister for Provincial and Local Government:

 Reasons for declaring a state of disaster in the Province of KwaZulu-
 Natal in terms of section 2(1) of the Civil Protection Act, 1977 (Act
 No 67 of 1977).

1. The Minister of Housing:

 The Report of the Department of Housing for 1999 [RP 74-2000].

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Select Committee on Public Services on the Road Accident Fund Commission Amendment Bill [B 12 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 22 May 2000:

   The Select Committee on Public Services, having considered the subject of the Road Accident Fund Commission Amendment Bill [B 12

   • 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

   With reference to the proposed new paragraph (b) of section 7(4) of the Act, the Committee recommends that the Commission be encouraged to complete its work within the period stipulated in section 7(4)(a).