TUESDAY, 4 APRIL 2000 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:00.

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Ms F HAJAIG: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) noting with concern the developments in Zimbabwe;

(2) reaffirming our close relationship with our neighbouring state;

(3) respecting the sovereign integrity of the Zimbabwean nation; and

(4) noting that the wellbeing of our countries is dependent on peace,prosperity and democracy within each others’ borders,

calls on the government and people of Zimbabwe to respect the rule of law, the independence of the judiciary and the constitutional framework of that country and to seek creative, democratic and just means to solve the crisis that the country faces.

[Applause.]

Mr C W EGLIN: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:

That the House, noting that -

(1) the violent suppression by Zanu-PF supporters and police of lawful protest against land invasions is a further violation of the rule of law in Zimbabwe;

(2) President Mugabe is implicated in this outrage by his condonation of violence against anyone who resists land invasions; and

(3) this breach of the rule of law in Zimbabwe violates article 4 of the SADC Founding Treaty of 1992,

calls on the Government and the people of South Africa to speak out against the escalating violation of human rights and democracy in Zimbabwe, and further calls on President Mbeki to communicate with President Mugabe as a matter of urgency -

   (a)  condemning the land invasions;


   (b)  emphasising that President Mugabe's failure to uphold the rule
       of law in Zimbabwe not only violates a basis for SADC co-
       operation, but seriously undermines the prospect of an African
       renaissance; and


   (c)  urging a commitment to genuine free and fair elections, and
       offering South African assistance to monitor them.

[Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr M F CASSIM: Madam Speaker, I give notice that at the next sitting of the House I shall move:

That, whereas pride of place is given to the independence, integrity and viability of the system of justice in every respected and cherished democracy and our judiciary is a cornerstone of our own democracy, the House -

(1) learns with sadness that informed commentators are pointing out many shortcomings within the justice system which, because they have not been quickly and adequately addressed, are impacting negatively on the workings of the justice system; and

(2) calls on the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development to take the bull by the horns and to deal with grievances and shortcomings so that our courts function at an optimal level and all personnel feel that the system is working adequately and efficiently.

Mrs M M MALUMISE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House, noting that the international drug manufacturer Pfizer has offered to provide one of its products, Diflucan, which currently costs more than R60 a dose, free of charge in South Africa to Aids patients for the control of fungal infections -

(1) commends Pfizer for its progressive approach; and

(2) calls on other drug companies that manufacture drugs for the treatment of patients with HIV/Aids to follow the example of Pfizer.

[Applause.]

Dr S J GOUS: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the New NP: That the House -

(1) notes that a media debate is taking place concerning the President’s contact with so-called Aids dissidents;

(2) accepts the right of the President and the Minister of Health to have discussions and contact with whomever they please; and

(3) in view of the negative speculation and the possible effect it might have on the World Aids Congress in Durban scheduled for later this year, calls on the President and the Minister of Health to inform the House unambiguously of the future role that the so-called Aids dissidents will or will not play in the Government’s anti-Aids initiative in the future.

Dr G W KOORNHOF: Madam Speaker, I give notice that at the next sitting of the House I will move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) notes the reported statements by Cosatu’s secretary-general over the weekend that South Africa’s jobless masses are getting edgy about the pace of efforts by business and Government to create new jobs and save existing ones;

(2) expresses agreement with Mr Vavi’s assertion that ``the unemployment situation in the country has reached catastrophic levels’’;

(3) nonetheless condemns the reported determination of Cosatu to proceed with a national strike in May;

(4) reiterates the conviction that a national strike during the current unemployment crisis can only impact negatively on the livelihoods of workers by bringing a part of the economy to a standstill for a whole day and further alienating investors, not to mention a further ill- afforded drop in productivity; and

(5) calls on Government urgently to develop a strategy to address the unemployment crisis in South Africa, in which the UDM’s proposals for job creation should be considered. Mr D S MAIMANE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that a Pietersburg garage owner may face a charge of assault after allegedly forcing a worker to eat dog faeces;

(2) deplores this alleged inhumane treatment and abuse of power;

(3) calls on the Northern Province police to pursue the matter with the full force of the law; and

(4) offers its support to the victim. [Applause.]

Dr S E M PHEKO: Madam Speaker, I give notice that at the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the PAC:

That the House - (1) notes that South Africa’s income distribution is now the most unequal in the world;

(2) notes that South Africa’s Gini coefficient, now measuring 0,69, is higher than that of Brazil, which formerly topped world charts;

(3) also notes that the gap between the rich and the poor has widened among poor households, who have experienced a decline of 20% in their incomes and their standard of living;

(4) acknowledges that there is no doubt that the current economic- oriented policy is anti-poor and is creating massive unemployment; and

(5) notes that the PAC reiterates that this country’s social, economic and political problems can never be solved by moving wealth from the poor to the rich.

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mevrou die Speaker, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die AEB sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis - (1) met sorg kennis neem van die jongste vergrype van die Mugabe-bewind in Zimbabwe, naamlik die totale verontagsaming van ‘n bevel van die Hooggeregshof, die skending van die reg op uitdrukking van sy burgers en die eensydige steun van die Zimbabwiese polisiemag aan wetsverbrekers;

(2) meen dat hierdie optrede die totale subkontinent in diskrediet bring;

(3) erken dat die gebeure in Zimbabwe ‘n direk negatiewe invloed op Suid- Afrika het, waarvan die jongste daling van die rand ‘n sprekende bewys is;

(4) glo dat daar na Suid-Afrika as die toonaangewende land in die SAOG- groep opgesien word om duidelik standpunt in te neem en leiding te gee in dié verband;

(5) meen dat die onwilligheid van die Suid-Afrikaanse Regering om bloot ‘n woord van kritiek teen mnr Mugabe uit te spreek, ons eie land ernstig skade berokken; en

(6) meen dat die optrede van mnr Mugabe en die reaksie van die Suid- Afrikaanse Regering die bona fides van die strewe na ‘n Afrika- renaissance ernstig in diskrediet bring. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the AEB:

That the House -

(1) notes with concern the latest infringements of the Mugabe regime in Zimbabwe, namely the total disregard of a Supreme Court order, the violation of the right of expression of its citizens and the unilateral support of the Zimbabwean police force for law-breakers;

(2) is of the opinion that this action brings the entire subcontinent into disrepute;

(3) recognises that the events in Zimbabwe have a direct, negative effect on South Africa, of which the latest drop in the value of the rand is conclusive proof;

(4) believes that South Africa is looked up to as the leading country in the SADC group to adopt a clear position and show leadership in this regard;

(5) is of the opinion that the unwillingness of the South African Government merely to express a word of criticism about Mr Mugabe is doing our own county serious harm; and

(6) is of the opinion that the actions of Mr Mugabe and the reaction of the South African Government are bringing the bona fides of the pursuit of an African renaissance into serious disrepute.]

Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:

That the House -

(1) noting the threatened boycott of the 13th International Aids Conference to be held in Durban this year by internationally renowned scientists working in the field of Aids research;

(2) recognising that this boycott is the result of the Government’s continued support for discredited Aids sceptics, which has manifested itself, inter alia,in the inclusion of Aids sceptics on an Aids task team and the extension of invitations to Aids sceptics to attend the conference; and

(3) acknowledging that the DP has repeatedly warned the Government of the possibility of international isolation if it persists with this approach,

calls on the Government to -

   (a)  accept the internationally accepted medical findings that HIV
       causes Aids; and


   (b)  do everything in its power to fight the HIV/Aids pandemic in
       South Africa.

[Applause.]

Dr K RAJOO: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I will move:

That the House -

(1) mourns the passing away of 13 innocent students in a Chatsworth nightclub;

(2) notes that -

   (a)  nightclubs where liquor is freely purveyed should not admit
       young students;


   (b)  nightclubs should be strictly regulated and under-age people
       should not be allowed to enter;


   (c)  severe punishment should be meted out to the culprits who were
       responsible for throwing a teargas canister into the overcrowded
       nightclub, resulting in a deadly aftermath; and


   (d)  the horrendous and senseless deaths of young schoolchildren must
       never be repeated; and

(3) calls on all authorities - the police, education, licensing, fire and health departments - closely to monitor any place which allows large numbers of people in order to check for under-age people, drugs and weapons of any sort.

Mr R P ZONDO: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes the report that the rate of prosecutions for motor vehicle hijackings in Gauteng has increased from 5% to 45%;

(2) believes that this is an indication of our Government’s commitment to and success in fighting crime and its new emphasis on prosecution- based investigation;

(3) commends the Police Service, the Office of the National Director of Public Prosecutions, the special investigative units and the Ministers of the peace and security cluster for their dedication and commitment; and

(4) looks forward to an ongoing increase in the success rate in curbing criminality in our country.

[Applause.]

Dr E A SCHOEMAN: Mevrou die Speaker, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die Nuwe NP sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) met ontsteltenis kennis neem van die jongste twee gevalle van plaasmoorde in Mpumalanga en KwaZulu-Natal;

(2) sy innige meegevoel teenoor die familie en naasbestaandes betuig;

(3) daarvan kennis neem dat plaasmoorde steeds onrusbarend toeneem, in teenstelling met ‘n andersins dalende moordsyfer; en

(4) daarvan kennis neem dat dit onwaarskynlik is dat roof die enigste of hoofmotief is, veral in die lig van plaasmoordtendense oor ‘n tydperk heen; en

(5) die President van Suid-Afrika versoek om ‘n kommissie van ondersoek in te stel na plaasmoorde en geweld op plase. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Dr E A SCHOEMAN: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House -

(1) notes with dismay the most recent two instances of farm murders in Mpumalanga and KwaZulu-Natal;

(2) expresses its heartfelt condolences to the family and next of kin;

(3) notes that farm murders are still alarmingly on the increase, in contrast with an otherwise declining murder rate; (4) notes that theft is unlikely to be the only or the main motive, especially in the light of farm murder trends over a period of time; and

(5) requests the President of South Africa to appoint a commission of inquiry into farm murders and violence on farms.]

Mr S NAIDOO: Madam Speaker, I give notice that at the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) condemns the call by Deputy President Jacob Zuma on the ICFTU to lower prices of anti-Aids drugs;

(2) recognises that the lowering of prices in order for drugs to be affordable, especially for poor people, is a commendable idea;

(3) nonetheless notes that it remains Government’s responsibility to assist in the fight against Aids and not to question the prices of drugs or the link between HIV and Aids; and (4) commends the offer of free treatment by Pfizer to help the poor.

Mr T M GONIWE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the DP has embarked on what Business Day describes as ``a McCarthyist effort to paint a false picture of the post-apartheid state’’ by accusing anyone ever associated with the ANC who gains a prominent position of being advanced through cronyism or nepotism;

(2) recognises that most people dedicated to the downfall of apartheid and the transformation of the state were members and supporters of the ANC;

(3) concludes that if all people who support the ANC were precluded from public positions, as the DP would like, this would be a new form of job reservation, excluding those excluded under apartheid; and (4) calls on the DP to desist from its meaningless publicity-seeking that fools only the foolish and contributes nothing to the transformation of our country.

[Applause.]

Mr S E OPPERMAN: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:

That the House -

(1) notes that the President’s legal adviser Mojanku Gumbi was involved in putting pressure on the chairperson of the SA Telecommunications Regulatory Authority, Nape Maepa, to recuse herself from the licensing process of Satra;

(2) further notes that this intervention has created the impression that the Presidency has acted improperly and has therefore cast doubts on the health of South Africa’s investment and regulatory environment; and

(3) calls on the Government to set up a judicial commission of inquiry into the role of the executive in the licensing process in order to signal a commitment to good governance on the part of the executive and improving South Africa’s image amongst South Africa’s investors.

[Applause.]

  DEATHS CAUSED BY FIRE IN LANGA AND STORMS RIVER RAFTING DISASTER

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes with shock the deaths resulting from the fire in Langa;

(2) further notes the tragic loss of life in the Storms River rafting disaster; (3) commends those involved in rescue operations and the emergency services for their valiant efforts to prevent further loss of life;

(4) sends its condolences to all those who lost loved ones and its sympathy to those who lost their possessions; and

(5) wishes those who were injured a speedy recovery.

Agreed to.

                      DEATHS IN CHATSWORTH CLUB

                         (Draft Resolution)

Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes with shock and sadness the loss of the thirteen school children in Chatsworth, KwaZulu-Natal, who died while enjoying themselves at the dance club Throb on 24 March 2000; (2) notes that this deliberate act of evil to sabotage the club with poisonous gas resulted in the loss of thirteen young, vibrant future leaders of South Africa;

(3) extends its sympathy and condolences to the bereaved family and wishes the injured a speedy recovery;

(4) calls on the Government to introduce strict legislation to either monitor or close down clubs operating in residential areas and to disallow children of a certain age group who are vulnerable to alcohol and drug abuse, entrance to clubs; and

(5) calls for intensive investigation to be executed so that the deserved punishment would be meted out to the perpetrators.

Agreed to.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON LABOUR - BUDGET VOTE 19

Order taken without debate. Report adopted.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 19 - Labour:

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Madam Speaker, today I speak under inspiration. I am inspired not by those who arrogantly see themselves as the sole repository of solutions to the challenges our country faces today. My inspiration hails not from those who naively seek to offer simplistic, ill- conceived and spurious theorems on how our country can raise levels of investment, promote economic growth, create more jobs and eradicate poverty. I draw my inspiration today from an indigenous African philosopher, an aboriginal African prophet of unrivalled intellectual capacity, who was quoted here by the Minister of Finance the other day. I refer to a begotten son of the African continent, Ben Okri, who, on the eve of the millennium, wrote as follows:

Let’s be wonderfully awake For what we are going to create, To make happen, In this mass co-scripting Of the future.

What a challenge. As we South Africans co-script our future, we are called on to be ``wonderfully awake’’. I interpret this to mean that we all have a profound responsibility to know the direct and indirect, intended and unintended, positive and negative consequences of our actions, not so that we are incapacitated by indecision, but so that we can script a truly wonderful future. Nowhere is this more challenging than in the labour market, in the marketplace where people’s labour is bought and sold. This marketplace is, in so many ways, so unlike the one in which apples, tables or cars, or similar inanimate objects - things - are exchanged.

In the labour market people agree to work for others in exchange for wages. Such agreements are usually tempered by a limitation on a number of hours to be worked or the output to be achieved - that is the conditions of employment - because labour, unlike other things, is sold by ordinary mortals of flesh and blood who therefore need to sleep, eat and recreate.

Some would have us believe that so sacred is this marketplace that it should operate unfettered by ground rules. ``Let those that enter such agreements settle the terms between themselves,’’ they say. But few subscribe to so radical a notion, hopefully no one in this House today, because many of us are awake to the fact that not everyone enters into such agreements freely and voluntarily.

Perhaps the clearest example of such people is children. Our Bill of Rights enshrines the rights of children, amongst which is the right of every child to be protected from exploitative labour practices. In other words, we have all agreed that children are not free to sell their labour, and the laws that prevent them from doing so are appropriate. The same would also most likely apply to the worker rights contained in the Bill of Rights and those conventions which are listed in the declaration of fundamental worker rights passed by the International Labour Organisation.

The majority would probably also agree that laws should be passed to protect people from agreeing to do work that is so dangerous that it directly threatens their lives. If Mr Mokoena, Mr Mohamali, Mr Mkhabela had known of a flaw in the plan to build the Njaka Bridge, would they have signed on in July 1998 for a day’s casual labour? We will never know because they are dead as a result of the collapse of the bridge, together with 11 others. The majority of us agree that a pursuit of profits cannot be allowed to endanger human life. Indeed, it is subhuman to behave in this way. So we have collectively agreed that such agreements cannot be freely entered into. We are awake to this.

However, beyond the protection of children and the protection of the lives of workers, once we enter the arena of improving the quality of life of all citizens - a phrase contained in the preamble to the Constitution - there are distinct differences of view. For example, the Basic Conditions of Employment Act seeks to set a floor of rights, a minimum below which freely entered into employment agreements cannot go.

The Act seeks to protect those who are notionally free, but in practice are too vulnerable to protect themselves. These workers, such as domestic workers and agricultural workers, are too dispersed, too trapped by the daily grind of survival, and too vulnerable in the hands of many unscrupulous and abusive madams and masters who deny them time to rest, to worship or to attend to their family responsibilities.

It is our responsibility as Government to ensure that the employment contracts of those susceptible to exploitation are in harmony with the injunctions of our Constitution. The logic of this proposition is challenged by those seeking to lower their wage bill. Driven by greed and an insatiable appetite for profits, our detractors argue that desperate, hungry people should be free to work below this floor of basic employment conditions. They present economic models on wage elasticity, which claim to prove that if wages and conditions fell to their lowest possible level there would be more jobs. They pontificate that any job, however bad, is better than no job at all.

Let us not romanticise this argument. It means quite literally that more people should be free to work themselves to exhaustion and sickness, or even death, for another’s profit. So cunning are our detractors that they have established reactionary formations whose ulterior motive is to deceive the unemployed to support economic arguments that advance the interests of the greedy minority. Those who demand that we should lower labour standards argue that employment opportunities will increase if workers are exposed to harsh and inhuman employment conditions. Research shows that there is no necessary link between legislating protection for workers and increasing unemployment. Put differently, there is no empirical basis to suggest that the lowering of labour standards results in a sustainable increase in job creation. We therefore do not believe that either more or less regulation will solve the crisis of unemployment.

But just as we must not romanticise this argument, so, too, must we be vigilant of glib complacency. Of course, our critics allege that we are not sufficiently awake to the consequences for those without work. I accept that this is, and must remain, an issue of red alert for all of us.

Adrian du Plessis from Business South Africa was reported in The Star of 13 March 2000 to have said that ours is a labour market vision based on employment in the formal sector, with rising wages offset by improvements in productivity and the development of a broad skills base''. He went on to say that such a vision has producedsome unintended consequences’’. Primary among these is that rising formal sector wages and improved efficiencies have aggravated labour substitution, particularly of the unskilled and less skilled persons at the margin of the labour market.'' He, however, came to the conclusion thata low wage labour market model with a lower skills mix just was not on the cards’’ given ``our particular history and the special constellation of forces in our society’’.

Adrian du Plessis is correct. This Government has decided that instead of expanding the range of less free agreements in the labour market, it will rather stimulate the growth of more and better jobs. This should not be interpreted to mean that lower skilled and more labour-intensive sectors are excluded. Quite the reverse. They are clearly to be encouraged if they bring jobs. But rather the argument is that in all sectors - be they more labour intensive or more capital intensive - there should be an upward productivity pull, not a downward poverty collapse, because rising productivity will ultimately result in increased investment and wealth creation.

Where then are the new jobs to come from? I believe that they are to come in three broadly defined segments of the labour market - formal sector growth, small business growth and supporting development sector initiatives. In respect of formal sector growth, as our President noted in his state of the nation address:

… we have never been better positioned than we are today to achieve the progress we have to attain with regard to this important challenge. Many major indicators point to the excellent work that has been done to place our country on a strong growth path.

Growth rates of between 3,5% and 6,5% are predicted for the next two years. But, left to itself, the formal sector could grow without absorbing the majority of the unemployed in our country, so-called jobless growth'' or job-few growth’’, or the benefits could take too long to reach the unemployed. Complementary strategies are needed to stimulate productive economic activity amongst the unemployed. Stimulation of small and micro enterprises is the second key element of such a strategy, and the provision of Government-funded or Government-enabled infrastructure and local economic development initiatives is the third. Public-private partnerships are emerging as an important means of leveraging private sector investment into these programmes, as is the restructuring of state assets. Government, as the largest employer in the land, can also influence economic behaviour through its procurement policies.

These three elements of an overall employment strategy are mutually reinforcing. Indeed, at the heart of Government’s Reconstruction and Development Programme from the start has been the idea that positive synergies can be found between all three elements. In all of these it is clear that labour market policies have a vital contribution to make to the success of the overall orchestra of macroeconomic, fiscal, monetary, industrial and development policies, if rising employment is to be the outcome of this co-scripting of the future.

What then are the contributions to be made from the side of the labour market to economic growth, stability and employment creation in the formal, informal and development sectors? For the purposes of this address, I shall cluster the contributions of my department into four themes and address the contributions of each to employment stability and growth. The themes are basic protection, the management of opposing interests, insurance in the event of loss of employment and, finally, employment productivity and equity promotion.

The first theme is basic protection. In the year ahead we shall continue to roll out the Basic Conditions of Employment Act. In addition to the sectoral determination for small business which modifies conditions of employment in certain areas, such as overtime payment and hours of work, further determinations will be published which will seek to achieve a balance between accommodating the needs, primarily of small employers, and protecting the rights of workers.

These determinations shall be in sectors which include significant numbers of small employers, including domestic and farmworkers, and those in retail, hospitality and clothing. We are also seeking to develop statutory minimum levels of remuneration and conditions of employment for people in job creation projects and people engaged in learnerships in the hospitality industry, which is the new form of learning to promote access to the labour market for the young.

This year we also see ourselves finalising a comprehensive programme of action against the elimination of child labour, in line with the ILO convention on eradicating the worst forms of child labour, which this Parliament ratified recently. Also related to the imperative of basic protection, I wish to bring Parliament’s attention to the policy developments in the area of occupational health and safety. Cabinet has resolved to promote a more integrated approach to health and safety across the labour market and across Government departments responsible for this, namely the Departments of Labour, Minerals and Energy and Health, in order to enhance efficiency and effectiveness. Task teams have been established to develop proposals and plans in order to give this decision force and effect.

Under the second theme, viz the management of opposing interests, a format for reaching employment agreements which has been put in place by the Constitution, the National Economic, Development and Labour Council Act and the Labour Relations Act, amongst others, is addressed. We have created a set of bargaining institutions such as Nedlac, bargaining councils and workplace forums on the one hand, and mechanisms to manage conflict such as the CCMA and the Labour Court on the other, which we should be proud of.

However, the question I want to pose is whether we are using these institutions to the best of our collective ability. Are we using them to effectively achieve our vision of economic growth and wealth creation? My assessment reveals that while each of these institutions contributes towards achieving our vision, there is still room for improvement. My department will explore, in the course of the year, mechanisms to enhance the effectiveness of these important institutions.

The third theme is insurance against loss of employment. For workers the threat of unemployment is often close to a life and death issue. The loss of income associated with the loss of a job means no food on the table, no money for schooling or educating the kids, no transport money to find new jobs etc. Two strategies have traditionally been adopted with different emphasis at different times.

The first is passive labour market measures and the second is more active ones. Both seek to make times of change, particularly times of job loss, less difficult. By making them less difficult it is hoped that people would be more willing to change, hence there would be greater flexibility and room for repositioning and adjustment. At the centre of passive labour market intervention is the provision of insurance against unemployment, which in South Africa translates into the Unemployment Insurance Fund. As hon members are aware, we have recently published a new draft Bill which is currently before Nedlac. Public comment closed on 31 March this year.

The new Bill seeks to address problems of sustainability of the fund. It also seeks to widen the scope of coverage, graduate the benefits schedule, delink maternity and unemployment benefits and strengthen compliance and enforcement measures. The second passive labour market measure managed by my department is compensation for occupational injuries and diseases. This fund continues to be used to provide compensation to workers who are more or less incapacitated at work.

On the more active side, my department has begun, in partnership with the National Productivity Institute, to implement the social plan agreement. This agreement was reached at the jobs summit in October 1998. It provides, in the first place, for measures which seek to avoid retrenchment through the promotion of future forums at work which can anticipate threats which may lead to job losses. In addition to the social plan technical support facility housed at the National Productivity Institute, help is being provided to firms facing productivity challenges which threaten jobs. Where retrenchments are unavoidable, my department has geared itself to providing assistance at the point of retrenchment, through the provision of information and advice, and by providing training opportunities to help retrenchees find work in other sectors.

In partnership with the Department of Provincial and Local Government, we are also engaged in assisting communities that have been severely affected by large-scale retrenchments. In the latter circumstances, my department seeks to provide employment and skills development services that support initiatives for new economic development. In the year that lies ahead, the application of a social plan through the restructuring of state assets will be the most challenging. Another active labour market measure is employment and skills development services, which I will deal with under the theme ``employment, productivity and equity promotion’’, to which I now turn.

Having addressed the question of core rights, having described the enabling environment for collective bargaining and having put in place certain active and passive measures which seek to protect workers when they lose their jobs, some might say: ``Surely that is the total package of labour market measures?’’ In South Africa, these measures are indeed the necessary elements of a labour market policy portfolio, but they fall short of being sufficient.

Over and above these basics, there is a powerful imperative to actively promote employment productivity and equity in our country. In all instances, the market on its own has failed to adequately address these issues. Our country is plaqued by inequality and a low-skills base by virtue of its history. This legacy must be turned around if we are to achieve our goal of a rising standard of living for all. To do this, it is necessary for a mass co-scripting of the future to take place. This is about reaching into the future, defining where we want to be, and then putting in place the plans we need in order to move step by step towards their achievement.

Setting goals and defining implementation plans backed up by people and other resources is the key. We are painfully aware of the levels of inequality that characterise our society in general, and our labour market in particular. Without intervention, the situation seems to be getting worse. Recent research commissioned for the Department of Labour has shown that over the 25-year period from 1970 to 1995, there have been no net new jobs for African workers. New jobs, such as there were, went to Indian, coloured and white workers. Therefore the market on its own, cannot correct the wrongs of the past. Indeed, it appears to mirror them. The drawing up of employment equity plans, ie the setting of targets and developing of strategies to correct historical inequalities, is a key mechanism this Government is promoting in order to address the problem.

By June this year we will receive the first employment equity reports from employers. We hope that we will be able to identify both the extent of compliance with the Act, including the racial, gender and disability profile of our workplaces, and the good and bad measures that employers are taking in order to bring these profiles into line with national and regional demographics. These reports should further assist us to establish whether, indeed, these measures are moving towards the target of a more just labour market. A similar approach is adopted in relation to skills development. Again, we know that South Africa’s workforce has skills levels that reflect the shameful outcome of apartheid education and training policies. It is estimated that only 20% of our workforce could be called skilled or highly skilled, while the skills levels required in the formal sector have risen dramatically over the past 25 years. As such, there is an absolute mismatch between the skills demanded and the skills available in the labour market.

Vukani ke mzi kaNtu nithathe loo mkhonto nibinze. Yakukhala ke ze nikhwaze niholonge nithi, ``icamagu livumile’’. Athi ke uNgcwabe kwincwadi ethi Khala Zome, kumbongo wakhe othi Imbumba yamanyama:

Latshona ilanga umhlambi usendle bayephi abelusi, ziyephi iinkokeli luyafa usapho luqwengwa zingcuka hlabani ngekrele ningafi nihleli.

Lo Rhulumente ukhokelwa yi-ANC umbutho wesizwe ubekele abantu izixhobo zokulwa emisebenzini. Ewe idabi eli alizi kuba lula, kodwa zaxhokonxwa nini mhla navota kunyaka ophelileyo. Yini na ke ukuba nisonge izandla nibukele kubanjenwe ngazo kwiinkalo ngeenkalo? Sifuna amabutho okumilisela nokukhusela le nkululeko. Qulani nigqibe niphelele ninyathele ngolwenene nokhohlo, niqhiwul’iintloko nikhuphe iingaga nibize umngeni kubo bonke abasebenzi. Yitshoni ngazwi nye ukuthi, ucalu-calulo ngokwesini, ngokukhubazeka nebala maluphele luthi nya kwiindawo zokusebenza. Yitshoni nithi unyaka mnye ngulo. Abaqeshi mabeze nezicwangciso neengxelo ngaphambili.

Baxeleleni kwakhona ukuba uthi uNgcwabe kumbongo wakhe:

Ungathetha uxele izulu ligqrekreza uthethe de uphalaze iinyembezi ungekasibonisi ukusebenza akukasixeleli nto usathule.

Athi ke yena uJolobe komnye wemibongo yakhe othi Ukwenziwa komkhonzi:

Inge ingamangala ikhusel’ilungelo yangqingwa yabiyelwa ngobulumko namava amaqhinga oyiswa kufunw’iqobozeke isizathu esihle singafihla ububi kuba ndikubonile ukwenziwa komkhonzi kwinkatyana yedyokhwe.

Udlula athi:

irhintyelwe ngentambo zayidla ebuntloko yangxoliswa yakhatywa kwaphathwa kulelezwa injongo yona inye mayithwale idyokhwe lolwezulu uqeqesho olujonge umqeqeshwa kuba ndikubonile ukwenziwa komkhonzi kwinkatyana yedyokhwe.

Ningavumi ke nina ukuqobozeka nithambe wunyukeni lo mnqatsa womendo impumelelo isentabeni ifuna abo banomxhino kuphela. Olu hambo lwethu lude kakhulu kunjalonje kodwa ke umhambi akadinwa ziinduku zakhe. Phikela uyenza le ntswahla yengxolo ade ongevayo eve kuba akukho mlanjana ungagqumiyo kakade. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)

[People of Afrika wake up and take the sword and thrust. When it bellows you must shout and say, ``Our offering has been accepted.’’ Ngcwabe says, in his book entitled, Khala Zome, specifically in his poem entitled, Imbumba yamanyama:

Latshona ilanga umhlambi usendle baye phi abelusi, ziye phi iinkokeli Luyafa usapho luqwengwa ziingcuka hlabani ngekrele ningafi nihleli.

This ANC-led Government, the organisation for the nation, has provided people with mechanisms to fight for their rights at work. Yes, the battle will not be easy, but it was started by you on the day you voted last year. Why fold your arms when there is war on all fronts? We want warriors to implement and protect this freedom. Prepare for battle and march forward with heads held high.

Take out your shields and make a challenge to all workers. Say with one voice that discrimination on the basis of gender, disability and colour must be eradicated totally from the workplace. Say this is the year! Employers must come forward with plans and reports.

Tell them again that Ngcwabe says, in his poem:

Ungathetha uxele izulu ligqekreza uthethe de uphalaze iinyembezi ungekasibonisi ukusebenza akukasixeleli nto usathule.

And Jolobe says, in one of his poems entitled, Ukwenziwa komkhonzi:

Inge ingamangala ikhusel’ ilungelo yangqingwa yabiyelwa ngobulumko namava amaqhinga oyiswa kufunw’ iqobozeke isizathu esihle singafihla ububi kuba ndikubonile ukwenziwa komkhonzi kwinkatyana yedyokhwe.

He goes on to say:

Irhintyelwe ngeentambo zayidla ebuntloko yangxoliswa yakhatywa kwaphathwa kulelezwa injongo yona inye mayithwale idyokhwe lolwezulu uqeqesho olujonge umqeqeshwa kuba ndikubonile ukwenziwa komkhonzi kwinkatyana yedyokhwe.

Do not allow yourselves to be tamed. Struggle on because success does not come easily and it only comes to those who show persistence. This journey of ours is very long, but a traveller does not give up. Keep on making this loud noise until everyone who does not yet hear it does hear of. Indeed, everyone blows his own trumpet.]

This state of affairs is inhibiting new investment, slowing down the diffusion of new technology and new productivity-enhancing forms of work organisation, and even stratifying the expansion of the small business sector.

Of course, there is a fundamental need to enhance the education system and improve the quality of learning that new entrants bring with them when they enter the labour market. However, this strategy needs to be augmented by interventions which seek to improve the matching of skills developed with those needed. The skills development strategy seeks to fill this gap. It seeks to put in place a financial incentive through the levy grant system and a set of industry-owned change agents, known as sector education and training authorities, that will drive behavioural change in large and small firms the right way.

The key point in relation to both the Skills Development Act and the Employment Equity Act is that the processes of plan writing and planning implementation are the means we intend to use in order to change the profile of our labour market. Together with the active participation of all social partners, we must change our labour market from one which is characterised by low skills linked to high levels of inequality, to one which has rising skills, to rising productivity, competitiveness, employment and the complete eradication of all discrimination. Skills development and employment equity are also intended to help those that are currently unemployed or who are students about to leave full-time learning and enter the job market.

Recruitment and selection criteria will need to favour those previously disadvantaged, and 20% of the levy funds collected is to be dedicated to helping these vulnerable groups to build their skills base to a level at which they can enter and re-enter the labour market - in the formal sector, in a small or micro business or in a developmental project. There will be skill and equity targets with plans at the level of workplaces, skill and equity targets with plans at the level of economic sectors, skill and equity targets with plans within communities and provinces, and skill and equity targets with plans for the nation. In this way we have begun to mass co-script a truly wonderful future for our country. At the heart of the success of all these plans is the commitment and energy of our people. The labour market need not only be the place where alienated individuals buy and sell their labour power within a set of basic rules which hold back the market jungle. It can also be the place where organised people with vision and commitment for a greater future are able to envision a dream and then put in place concrete and practical steps to reach it step by step.

As Ben Okri put it:

We are, more or less The makers of the future. We create what time will frame.

[Applause.]

Mr S A MSHUDULU: Madam Speaker, Deputy President, hon members of this House, the ANC reaffirmed at its 50th national conference in Mafikeng that the basic economic and social transformation framework is the RDP. In order to give effect to its programme of fundamental economic transformation it committed itself to developing a programme of further legislative changes and to clear timeframes with deliverables and the implementation plan.

It is for this reason that the ANC Government, in its manifesto, confirmed that it recognised the right to fair labour practices, the right to form and join trade unions and to strike in terms of procedures outlined in the Labour Relations Act. Employers cannot employ and fire at will as a result of the protection in section 185 of the LRA and the code of good practice. There is also the extension of the Basic Conditions of Employment Act to all vulnerable employees through sectoral determinations and in consultation with all stakeholders.

On measures to redress the imbalances of the past, employers are to implement affirmative action measures as outlined in section 9(2) of the Constitution and in the Employment Equity Act so as to prohibit unfair discrimination and for the protection of the majority of the electorate. The ANC is concerned with improving the skills of workers through the Skills Development Act and with the funding thereof.

The system of learnership for the young and unemployed is in place. The setting up of sectoral education and training authorities is to be established, as it is by now, to ensure that training addresses the needs and requirements of the sector. Workers are given the right to refuse work that can harm the environment and themselves through the National Environment Management Act. It established Nedlac to give workers and communities a say over policy formulation.

Ditsela was launched through a grant from the Department of Labour, and no fewer than 1 483 unionists were trained in the two years up to 1999. The list is endless as it further includes the Presidential Jobs Summit. It is against this commitment that the ANC needs to remind political organisations such as the DP that had no interest in the needs of the oppressed working class, including the poorest of the poor and the unemployed, that it inherited problems that manifest themselves in the form of joblessness and economic stagnation which were created by the nationalist capitalist production process. These production systems ignored the multifaceted, productive component which comprised labour, capital material and technological management, but blamed everything - I repeat, blamed everything - on the least-paid labour force, including retrenchment. The apartheid laws and policies did not create an enabling environment that allowed for employment security; that allowed for productivity and competitiveness; that allowed for gainsharing as a benefit to workers, customers and shareholders; that allowed participation and consultation; and that allowed career pathing and skill formation for all, as well as work organisation that would enhance industrial harmony, productivity and motivation.

The labour market has high rates of unemployment and underemployment. The low rate at which productive employment is being created in the economy, more so in the private sector; the existence of widespread poverty among low-wage earners and the unemployed; the extreme level of unequality, primarily on the basis of race and gender; the low level of education, skills and investment in training; the legacy of adversarial labour relations in the formal economy; and the inadequate protection of some low- wage earners, such as farmworkers and domestic workers, were all exacerbated by the then institutions of apartheid and officials who were - and are still - loyal to the then government.

We in the ANC commend the hon the Minister of Labour for the good work he and his department have done so far. We further believe that the R748 million allocated to the department will, indeed, fulfil the mandate to deliver on the following: Reducing unemployment, poverty and inequality through policies and programmes developed in consultation with role-players

• that is business, Government, labour and communities - and are aimed at improved economic efficiency and productivity, skills development, employment creation and sound labour relations, as well as eliminating inequality and discrimination in the workplace, alleviating poverty, and protecting and enhancing worker rights and benefits.

A more pragmatic approach, through the mandate we all have - except, of course, any group that might be confused - as entrenched in the Constitution of South Africa in its preamble and in sections 1 and 2, relating to the supremacy of the Constitution, section 9 and 9(2), specifically on equity, and section 23 in general, is a commitment to the improvement of the quality of life of all citizens, the freedom and the potential of every person in this country. Hence it acknowledges the democratic values and honours the supremacy of the Constitution and the fundamental human rights in general. One of the instruments that can redress the above-mentioned imbalances is the acceleration of the implementation of the Presidential Jobs Summit resolutions, as it has been hampered by other stakeholders. We have labour, who had to consult first before a one-day contribution could be made. To this effect we must commend the Public Service unions, on behalf of 1 million members, for having made this breakthrough towards the Umsobomvu Fund, and all those who have contributed already.

We must confirm that the department passed the Employment Equity Act in 1998, and what is in place is the piecemeal phasing-in approach. This Act provides for equity in employment. This Act, in order to promote the constitutional rights of equity and the exercise of democracy, calls for the elimination of discrimination in employment. It calls for Government and employers to ensure the implementation of employment equity to redress the ill-effects of discrimination; it calls for an achievement of a diverse workforce that is broadly representative of our people; it seeks to promote economic development and efficiency in the workplace; and it gives effect to the obligations of the republic as a member of the ILO.

The ANC Government, through this Act, has identified the target group of employers and beneficiaries called the designated group comprising of employers with over 50 employees and a high turnover, including the Government, black people, women of all races and people with disabilities who were disadvantaged in the past. The ANC Government, through this Act, requires these employers in consultation with worker representatives, to do an organisational audit that will reflect the anomalies and imbalances at the workplace in relation to section 19 of the Employment Equity Act. This entails the following: Information on employment policies, practices, procedures and the working environment in order to identify employment barriers which adversely affect the people from the designated groups.

There must be an analysis that must include a profile, as prescribed, of the designated employer’s workforce within each occupational category and level, in order to determine the degree of underrepresentation of people from the designated group in various occupational categories and levels in that employer’s workforce. Having made the above analysis, the designated employer must prepare and implement an employment equity plan which will achieve reasonable progress towards employment equity and implementation. This plan must state the objectives to be achieved each year; affirmative- action measures, in conjunction with unions; numerical goals to achieve an equitable representation; timetables and objectives other than numerical goals; duration of the plan, which may not be shorter than one year and longer than five years; procedures for monitoring and evaluation; an internal dispute procedure; and the person responsible for the monitoring and evaluation of the plan.

It further outlines the criteria of employment interview and consideration, which include formal qualifications related to the job requirement, recognition of prior learning, relevant experience, and the capacity to acquire, within a reasonable time, the ability to do the job. In making a final determination, an employer may not unfairly discriminate against a person on the grounds that the person lacks the relevant experience. It must be noted that most black women and the disabled do not secure jobs, because the panel comprises predominantly white males who make entry into gainful employment very difficult. It is for this reason that the Act provides for enforcement measures and monitoring mechanisms that will ensure compliance.

The Act further makes room for representatives of the workforce to be party to any decision that relates to recruitment, employment, training, placement, career pathing, affirmative action, and the total implementation of the employment equity plan before being submitted to the Department of Labour. It is, therefore, crucial that we call upon all women, both black and white, the disabled and the youth, and disadvantaged blacks to stand up and look around for the nearest labour centre which has been transformed into a centre of excellence, any ANC constituency office or any local government and welfare offices for advice, guidance or help.

Ngeli thuba lolu lwabiwo-mali, masimbulele uMongameli wethu, uMbeki, ngokuwukhokela uMzantsi Afrika ngeli xesha libaluleke kangaka lamarhamncwa abawela ivoti yabamnyama. Masiphinde simbulele okaMdladlana kunye neSebe lakhe lezaBasebenzi ngokukhokela iaPresidential Jobs Summit nokwenza ukuba zifezeke ngendlela eyanelisayo izigqibo zayo ngokuthi ziguqule indlela endala yokusebenza kweSebe lezaBasebenzi. [Laphela ixesha.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.) [On this occasion of the labour appropriation let us thank our President, Mr Mbeki, for leading South Africa at this critical time when the beasts are so greedy for the votes of the black people. Again, let us thank hon Mdladlana and his Ministry of Labour for leading the Presidential Jobs Summit as well as facilitating the satisfactory accomplishment of its decisions in such a manner that they changed the old method that the Department of Labour applied. [Time expired.]]

Mr R J HEINE: Mr Chairman and hon members, the Financial Mail runs with the headline ``Time to say I want you’’ to foreign investors. The German financial institution DEG urges the Government to relax rigid labour policies and clothing companies in KwaZulu-Natal beg for relief as the wage- cost crunch bites. Yet, all the while Government expresses its amazement that already hard-pressed businesses are not queuing up to register for the skills levy and the hon the Minister of Labour urges the unions to embark on a national strike, come May 10. The paradox is breathtaking.

When the premier of Mpumalanga, the hon Mr Mahlangu, said it was okay for politicians to lie, he was lambasted for doing so. I would like to make it perfectly clear that, while I hold no brief for the hon Mr Mahlangu whatsoever, what the hon the Minister of Labour had to say to hundreds of workers in Johannesburg on March 17 was, quite frankly, no less shocking and certainly far more damaging.

Instead of slapping down the unions and telling them in clear, unambiguous terms that strikes will merely damage the economy and will result in further job losses and less foreign direct investment, the hon the Minister stands up and says that he does not want to be a strong labour Minister with weak unions. He beats his chest, thumps his fist and urges the unions to defend their revolutionary values by taking part in Cosatu’s planned protest action against the private sector at the beginning of May. He says he would rather resign than see the unions go soft. Despite the negative impact and repercussions that this statement is likely to have on South Africa’s ability to attract significant levels of foreign direct investment, Government has remained remarkably silent on this matter.

The hon the Ministers of Finance and of Trade and Industry must be fuming. How on earth do they explain to potential investors that yes, the hon the Minister of Labour supports the unions and actually urges them to go on strike, that these actions disrupt core business functions and are costing money while, at the same time, persuade them to come to South Africa with their foreign exchange and jobs? I would hate to be in their shoes.

The hon the Minister should be encouraging the unions to back down from their present course of action. He should be advocating a policy of hard work, mutual respect and stability in the labour market. He should not be seen whipping up emotions and leading the attack against the business sector.

In the Budget we learned that the Department of Labour will counter the prevailing global trend to downsize and streamline. We discovered it would actually increase its staff numbers from 5 400 to 6 000. These additional 600 posts will mostly be for ``job cops’’, people who will be dedicated to ensuring that the stifling requirements of South Africa’s debilitating and expensive labour legislation are adhered to by the business sector.

The department will spend R144 million or 19% of its budget on policing those businesses who pay the taxes that go towards the budget allocations in the first place. Instead of opening up the labour market to allow for greater competition and movement, the Department of Labour will tighten the screws. We will have our job cops who will punish businesses for wanting to expand and employ more South Africans, and we will probably see some half- baked amendments to our labour laws.

The very same businesses that the hon the Minister will be responsible for policing, have made significant contributions to job creation, and the records speak for themselves. The Jobs Summit resolved that Government, business and organised labour would each create funds in a national effort to create jobs. However, so far only the business fund has made any progress. The Business Trust was established in July 1999 and has reached R750 million of its R1 billion target. The board has already allocated R650 million to projects and signed six of an envisaged seven strategic partnerships. A further R850 million was allocated to the Umsobomvu Fund. Most of this money came from taxes on the demutualisation of Old Mutual and Sanlam. This fund is under the control of the hon the Minister of Finance.

Organised labour, meanwhile, has done nothing with its Job Creation Trust, which has accumulated R25 million in voluntary contributions from unionists, private individuals and the business sector who donated one day’s salary. The trust is jointly run by Cosatu, the Federation of Labour Unions and the National Council of Trade Unions. It has a management board, but this has met only once since its inception. It has not released any money nor has it begun any projects. Fedusa’s Deputy General Secretary, Mr Dennis George, says the fund has operational difficulties because it lacks administrators. It is obvious that the unions are not interested in creating jobs. They are more busy organising strikes and, with the blessing of the hon the Minister of Labour, they want to hurt the business sector even more, notwithstanding the contribution it has made to job creation and skills development.

While the hon the Minister kowtows to the unions and their members, he says that the labour laws will be reviewed to make it even more difficult to hire and fire people. While this flies in the face of what the business community is crying out for, the Government itself is guilty of ignoring some of the most basic and fundamental tenets of its very own labour legislation. For instance, the former Director of Labour in the Western Cape, Mr Brian Williams, was suspended in October 1998 on full salary. As a result of the department’s incompetence in getting to grips with the provisions of the labour laws, which it was responsible for drafting in the first place, Mr Williams appeared before the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration and two disciplinary hearings over a 12-month period, costing the taxpayer R824 000 in legal fees. However, efforts to oust Mr Williams failed and he was reinstated in his original position from 1 November 1999, only to have a final settlement package negotiated, whereupon he left the department less than two months later. I am told that the terms of the settlement are confidential, and I can only guess what Mr Williams was paid to keep quiet and to go quietly.

Allow me to offer the House another example. In Mpumalanga the MEC for Education, Mr Craig Padayachee, has been ordered to pay more than R2,6 million to Mrs Sithole, the former Education MEC, who was fired because of the 1998 matric examinations scandal. The Pretoria High Court ruled that Mrs Sithole’s contract had been unlawfully terminated, violating the terms of the Labour Relations Act. Perhaps the most startling indication of the Government’s labour law inflexibility and rigidity is the news that the Chief Executive Officer of the SA Airways, Mr Coleman Andrews, has applied for a full exemption from the Basic Conditions of the Employment Act. This, in itself, is one of the most damning indictments of the Government’s labour policy. For a Government-owned airline to ask for exemption of this sort just goes to show how rigid the legal provisions are, and how difficult and costly they are to comply with.

If the Government is trying to duck and dive when it comes to the labour laws, how does it expect the private sector to fall in line? The Government has far more in the way of resources, both in terms of money and staff, than ordinary businesses; and yet it is unable to follow the correct procedures when it comes to dismissing personnel.

I think the hon the Minister should draw a salient lesson from these few examples. He should ensure that the labour law amendments which are due to be brought before Parliament in August loosen their provisions. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr N S MIDDLETON: Mr Chairman, hon members, we are more or less the makers of the future. We create what time will frame.

Ngivumelana naleliya lungu ngalokho elikushilo. Ngithi lokho elikushilo ngokwethu. [I agree with what the hon member has just said. I say he has expressed our view.]

It is, however, regrettable that this department’s budget has been cut by R90 million, roughly 10% of the previous financial year’s total. The decrease of 5,7% in the funding for training of staff must be a cause for concern to everybody. The reason provided is that an increase in line- function activities means that less funding is available for training. This is not consistent with the increase in the appointments of inspectors. Surely more funding should have been made available for training the newly appointed inspectors.

An employment skills development survey shows that the largest decrease is in this budget. The explanation for cutting this budget in this particular sphere and transferring it to the National Skills Fund does not tell the entire story. The fact of the matter is that the department will not be able to maintain its services to the unemployed and the unskilled in the forthcoming financial year.

However, we welcome the increase in allocation to the SA National Council for the Blind and the National Council for the Physically Disabled, as it shows some commitment to the improvement of the position of the handicapped, as is required by the Constitution. The IFP supports the budget for the 2000-01 financial year, but I have this to say to the hon the Minister.

The MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Uyayimosha manje! [You are spoiling it now!]

Mr N S MIDDLETON: Angiyimoshi. Ake lithule lelo lunga elihloniphekile! [I am not spoiling it. Could that hon member please be quiet!]

I want to make an earnest appeal to our Minister of Labour to play a crucial role as a referee in this team of economic Ministers. [Interjections.] He must make it very clear to his colleagues how important it is to ensure the creation of more jobs in the future. The Minister must pressurise his colleagues to help him to stimulate job creation. If they do not listen, the Minister must report them to me. [Laughter.]

In spite of what many businesspeople would like us to believe, including some politicians, they must all be told that the contrary is true: The problem with the South African economy is not about trade unions per se. It is about our wrong and misplaced attitudes about trade unionism in this country. [Applause.] It is time we accepted the fact that no country can prosper economically if it continues to ignore the workers as the backbone of the economy of the country. [Interjections.]

Now is the time for employers, both in the public and private sectors, to be honest with themselves and with the workers, particularly when they talk of downsizing, outsourcing and redeployment because, at the end of the day, all this means retrenchment and the loss of jobs. So they must not play around with these terms where workers are concerned.

In this regard, I want to further appeal to the Minister to again use his influence, particularly on his colleagues in the Cabinet, to help him revisit the present status of the Insolvency Act which is being abused by many employers. The Minister’s proposals to overhaul the Unemployment Insurance Act is also commended by the IFP. We support this and we want to advise the Minister that, in this regard, he must consider increasing the contributions to the fund. Secondly, the benefit must be extended from six months to 12 months. Thirdly, the benefits payable should not be subject to normal taxation as is the case now.

Furthermore, I want to bring it to the Minister’s attention - and he has already mentioned it in his speech - the question of child labour which still thrives in this country. This is shocking.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, your speaking time has expired.

Mr N S MIDDLETON: It can never be! [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! It is, so please be seated. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

Mr S M RASMENI: Chairperson, hon members of Parliament, I think I agree with hon Middleton that the DP’s attitude is against unions. If the DP had its way, we would never have had unions in this country. [Interjections.] However, I must tell them and advise them that unfortunately for them, unions are here, and they are here to stay. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!

Mr S M RASMENI: The programmes of the Department of Labour are based on sound policies. These include playing a significant role in reducing unemployment, poverty and inequality through policies and programmes that have been developed in consultation with the role-players and which are aimed at improved economic efficiency and productivity, skills development and employment creation, sound labour relations, the elimination of inequality and discrimination at the workplace, and the protection and enhancement of workers’ rights and benefits. It is our hope that the budget of R748 327 000 will go a long way towards the implementation of the policies and programmes of this department.

The ANC Government - our Government - and the Department of Labour in particular, need to be commended for the work well done in such a short space of time. The establishment of a labour market policy and a legislative framework which enabled bodies of conflicting interest, labour and business, to talk to each other and to contribute positively to shaping sound labour relations after many years of industrial conflict and turmoil which saw workers being killed, imprisoned and fighting in factions, should be commended. These acts were carried out by both the apartheid government and industrial bosses through their military police and the notorious induna systems.

Today, we are proud to have created institutions such as Nedlac and the CCMA to settle disputes, labour courts, employment conditions commissions and many other structures for the good and benefit of employers, labour and the people of South Africa. For the first time, after many years, South Africa enjoys membership of and plays a significant role in the International Labour Organisation. These achievements have not come about as hand-outs or manna from heaven. They are the gains brought about by the struggle led by the ANC, acting together with its alliance partners and the great majority of South Africans.

The ANC, with the overwhelming majority of our people, defeated the apartheid government in April 1994. So, together, we should build a better life for all. A nation of equals, of proud citizens with a restored dignity, is emerging. In the past five years the ANC has been leading a vast process of change against the odds, faced with challenges and resistance. The ANC remains resolute in the struggle to remove the apartheid system and all that remains of its practices such, as the oppression and victimisation of farmworkers and domestic workers.

The farmworkers and farming community find themselves trapped in a vicious cycle that is very difficult to break. Violation of basic human rights by farmers, the employers, is the order of the day and forms part and parcel of conditions of employment and conditions of living and staying in the farming areas. The denial of labour rights, exploitation, payment of slave wages and worse, the killing of farmworkers and their children, can never be divorced from the system of apartheid capitalism of which the DP is a part. [Interjections.] This is the same system which we referred to as ``colonialism of a special type’’ and which we managed to fight in the factories, in the mines and in the entire country. It is very clear that some farmers are still bent on perpetuating what were discriminatory laws and practices even though such laws do not exist on our Statute Book. Black workers are earning 7,5% of the wages earned by white workers. Year after year, as we celebrate Human Rights Day, many of our people working and living on the farms are unfairly dismissed and evicted, and their families and children thrown out. Children have no option but to break off their schooling.

We dare not forget the shooting and killing of Angeline Zwane, aged six, at Zesfontein near Benoni, and the fatal killing of Ralph Motlane, nine years old, by the farmer at Krokodildrif farm near Swartruggens. Violation of the human rights of farm workers was perpetrated in the Tshipise district in the Northern Province by a farmer and private security operator. A farmer refused to allow the burial of the late Mr Serote, who had worked and lived for 30 years on Lillispan farm near Coligny in the North West. Lizzie Mokwema, nine years old, was crushed and killed by a farmer’s bakkie in Delareyville. Farmers prevent labour inspectors from entering farms when doing their inspections. They set dogs on those inspectors who happen to be black. We are disappointed by the naked racism displayed by two white farmers who were interviewed by a journalist from The Sunday Independent after the imprisonment of Eugène Terre’Blanche. They had this to say, and I quote:

… Will Eugène be safe in prison? If anything happens to Eugene, more blacks will die than at Blood River.

Another had this to say, and I quote:

The trouble with people like you is that you don’t know what a kaffir is. I do because I work with them. And if I call my dog a kaffir, it would be an insult to the dog.

All these bad practices and racial remarks are just a symbol of the last kicks of a dying horse such as the DP. [Laughter.] The long arm of the law is catching up with them.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, please keep to the Vote at hand. [Applause.]

Mr S M RASMENI: They should ask Eugéne de Kock and Eugène Terre’Blanche. We are pleased to learn from the Minister that the department intends extending the Basic Conditions of Employment Act to the farm and domestic workers … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mnr D M BAKKER: Mnr die Voorsitter, artikel 10 van ons Grondwet waarborg die inherente waardigheid van elke burger, en bepaal dat elkeen die reg het dat sy of haar waardigheid gerespekteer en beskerm moet word.

In die beskerming van ons grondwetlike beginsels kan ons dus nie toelaat dat die waardigheid van ons mense aangetas word nie. Wat kan die waardigheid van ‘n persoon wat wíl werk maar nie kán werk nie omdat daar nie werkgeleenthede is nie, meer aantas as juis die feit dat hy of sy nie in a posisie is om sy of haar verantwoordelikheid teenoor ‘n gesin, ‘n familielid, ‘n kind of kinders na te kom om voedsel op die tafel of ‘n dak oor hulle koppe te plaas nie?

Ongelukkig is daar baie sulke mense in ons land. Werkloosheid is aan die toeneem eerder as aan die afneem. Slegs een uit 30 werksoekers het ‘n kans op sukses. Volgens Statistiek Suid-Afrika het meer as 43 000 werkgeleenthede in die formele besigsheidsektor in die laaste drie maande van 1999 verlore gegaan, en meer as 120 000 werkgeleenthede tussen Desember 1998 en Desember 1999, en dan praat ons nie eens van plaasarbeiders nie. Dit terwyl Gear, die Regering se makro-ekonomiese beleid, 833 000 nuwe werkgeleenthede tussen 1996 en 2000 belowe het, en daarná 409 000 werkgeleenthede per jaar in elke daaropvolgende jaar. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr D M BAKKER: Mr Chairman, section 10 of our Constitution guarantees the inherent dignity of every citizen, and states that everyone has the right to have his or her dignity respected and protected.

In the protection of our constitutional principles we therefore cannot allow the dignity of our people to be assailed. What can assail the dignity of a person who wants to work but cannot work, because there are no job opportunities, more than precisely the fact that he or she is not in a position to honour his or her obligations towards a family, a relative, a child or children, to provide them with food or a roof over their heads?

Unfortunately there are many such people in our country. Unemployment is increasing rather than decreasing. Only one out of 30 job-seekers has a chance of being successful. According to Statistics South Africa more than 43 000 job opportunities were lost in the formal business sector during the last three months of 1999, and more than 120 000 between December 1998 and December 1999, and here we are not even speaking about farm labourers. This happened while Gear, the Government’s macroeconomic policy, promised 833 000 new job opportunities between 1996 and 2000, and 409 000 job opportunities per year in every subsequent year.]

Government’s economic report looks impressive. The GDP growth rate is up, foreign direct investment is up, inflation is down, the interest rate is considerably down, foreign reserves are up and the budget deficit as a percentage of gross domestic product is down. Everything looks good until one comes to South Africa’s labour policy. The question is therefore: Why are we not seeing any results?

Ondanks baie goeie werk deur die Regering op ekonomiese gebied, is daar steeds geen beduidende regstreekse vaste investering in die land nie. Die land is redelik suksesvol met die lok van korttermynportefeuljebeleggings, maar dit is geld wat oornag kan uitstroom.

Die agb Minister van Finansies, Trevor Manuel, sê in ‘n onderhoud dat die Regering se beleid tot op datum nie werk geskep het nie en dat ‘n beleidsverandering nodig is. President Mbeki het in sy Openingsrede onder meer gesê arbeidswetgewing moet gewysig word in ‘n poging om die struikelblokke in die pad van buitelandse investering uit die weg te ruim. In Februarie vanjaar, ná die ANC se nasionale uitvoerende komiteeberaad, sê die ANC-woordvoerder, Smuts Ngonyama, dat ‘n regering nie werk kan skep nie, maar slegs die omgewing tot stand kan bring om werkskepping te bevorder. Hierdie uitsprake is baie bemoedigend en begin die indruk wek dat die Regering erns het met werkskepping. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Despite very good work by the Government in the economic sphere, there is still no significant direct fixed investment in the country. The country is fairly successful in attracting short-term portfolio investments, but this is money that can flow out overnight.

The hon the Minister of Finance, Trevor Manuel, said in an interview that the Government’s policy had to date not created jobs, and that a change in policy was needed. In his Opening Address President Mbeki said, inter alia, that labour legislation should be amended in an effort to remove the obstacles in the way of foreign investment. In February this year, after the conference of the ANC national executive committee, ANC spokesman Smuts Ngonyama said that a government could not create employment, but could only create the environment which could promote job creation. These statements are very encouraging and are starting to create the impression that the Government is serious about job creation.]

But for this very reason it is very discouraging to read headlines stating, and I quote, ``Mdladlana turns Mbeki’s speech into a Rubicon’’.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Who is that? Who is that?

Mr D M BAKKER: That is you, Minister. [Interjections.] We all agree that there is no quick fix for unemployment, but what is needed is for the Minister of Labour to take some hard decisions and to start implementing some of those decisions required in terms of the labour policy. After the President commissioned a review to assess the extent to which labour policies could be impacting adversely on the imperatives of investment attraction and employment creation strategies, the hon the Minister started a process to review labour legislation and to introduce amendments by appointing a task team under the head of his former director-general and by holding a series of consultations with social partners.

Mr T M GONIWE: Chairperson, on a point of order …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! What is your point of order?

Mr T M GONIWE: Chairperson, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary for the member not to refer appropriately to the Minister?

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! That is not a point of order. Please be seated.

Mr T M GONIWE: Chairperson, what is it?

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! It is not a point order and I am ruling on that. Please be seated. [Laughter.] Please continue.

Mr D M BAKKER: Chairperson, in reply to a question put to the Minister last September, he stated:

At this stage, we have not identified any aspects of labour laws that have proven to be obstacles to the creation of jobs. What we have identified is that there is a problem of negative perceptions about our labour laws and that these perceptions impact on reality …

Ever since then the hon the Minister, who is a former president of the SA Democratic Teachers’ Union, affiliated to Cosatu, has been very vague as to what exactly the amendments to the existing legislation are that he and his department are proposing. We continuously hear remarks by the hon the Minister that the results of the process demonstrated in no uncertain terms that the fundamentals of our labour market policy are sound and that the overall thrust of our legislative framework remains correct. We hear him saying that no one has given him a definition of flexibility. He keeps on referring to regulated flexibility'', but places his emphasis on regulated’’ without saying anything about ``flexibility’’.

What is now needed is for the hon the Minister to outline in detail precisely what he and his department are actually committed to doing for job creation. The general state of uncertainty which is prevailing at the moment is doing nothing to boost business confidence, and swift and decisive action is now long overdue. Employment creation is not only determined by economic growth, but also by the employment-creating capacity of the economy. The latter, in turn, is determined to a very large extent by the cost of labour relative to that of capital. To say that excessive increases in the cost of labour hamper employment is stating the obvious.

In a policy research document published in 1993, the World Bank came to the conclusion that the success achieved by some of the East Asian countries in eradicating unemployment could, to a large extent, be attributed to labour policies that succeeded in keeping the labour cost marginally below market- clearing levels. Rigid or inflexible labour markets and cost-increasing labour legislation, labour policies and labour practices give rise to high and rapidly increasing labour costs and inhibit employment creation, especially under conditions of increasing international competition. In order to cope with increased competition the only choice employers often have is to reduce the wage bill through the curtailment of employment, especially of lower-skilled workers.

The cost of labour also includes the direct and indirect cost of labour arising from labour practices and labour legislation, as well as strikes, stayaways, go-slows, intimidation etc. The obstacles to job creation are clear. What is needed is for the Minister to take decisive decisions.

Tot dusver het die berg nog net ‘n muis gebaar. Die agb Minister bly halstarrig vasklou aan ‘n oordrewe beskerming van die aristokrasie van sy ou vakbond. Sy party het in 1994 werk aan almal beloof, en terwyl goeie vordering op ander gebiede gemaak word en baie van sy kabinetskollegas wesenlike ideologiese en beleidsveranderings toegepas het, blyk dit asof die agb Minister slegs bereid is om kosmetiese verslappings van arbeidswetgewing te oorweeg.   Die Nuwe NP doen ‘n vriendelike beroep op die agb Minister en sy departement om die voorbeeld van sekere van sy kollegas te volg en daadwerklik iets omtrent werkskepping te doen. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Thus far the mountain has only brought forth a mouse. The hon the Minister is obstinately clinging to the excessive protection of the aristocracy of his old trade union. In 1994 his party promised jobs for everyone, and while good progress has been made in other areas, and many of his colleagues in the Cabinet have implemented substantial ideological and policy changes, it would seem as if the hon the Minister is only prepared to consider cosmetic relaxations when it comes to labour legislation.

The New NP appeals politely to the hon the Minister and his department to follow the example of some of his colleagues and really do something about job creation. [Time expired.]]

Mr T M GONIWE: Mr Chairperson, on a point of order: According to Rule 61, no member shall refer to any other member by his or her first name, or names only. I distinctly heard the previous speaker referring to the Minister as Mdladlana''. He did not saythe honourable’’.   The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, if you read very carefully, you will see after the photograph of the hon Minister, that what you are quoting now is his surname. If the pronunciation was wrong, we can understand. If the name was totally wrong, I would allow your point of order.

Mr T M GONIWE: My point is about honourable''. One is supposed to say the hon Mdladlana’’.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I agree on that. All members in this House are to be addressed as the honourable''. In many cases in this House most members sometimes omitthe honourable’’. It is disappointing to us, and we ask all members to use the word ``honourable’’. Thank you.

Mr D M BAKKER: Chair, may I address you on the point of order that you have just ruled upon.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Is it further to what that hon member raised, sir? Mr D M BAKKER: Sir, in every respect in my speech at all stages I referred to the Minister as the hon Minister'' and in Afrikaans todie agb Minister’ …

… behalwe wanneer ek aangehaal het, uit ‘n koerantberig waar dit direk na die Minister verwys het, sonder om agbare'' te gebruik. Dit is die punt waaroor ek u toespreek in dié verband. [... except when I quoted from a newspaper report which referred directly to the Minister, without using the wordhonourable’’. That is the point on which I am addressing you in this regard.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, we accept your bona fides and we know your intention was good. He has been quoting from a newspaper and that is how the name came about. [Interjections.]

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: He did not pronounce my surname correctly! [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Minister, you will have your time. [Interjections.] Order! Hon Minister, you will have your time at the podium.

Mr M N RAMODIKE: Chairperson, the UDM supports this Vote. The UDM supports and welcomes the transformation brought about by the Department of Labour in the workplace.

In terms of the introductory remarks of the Department of Labour, as contained in the explanatory memorandum, the aim and objective is to play a significant role - in consultation with other role-players - in the reduction of unemployment, poverty and inequality through policies and programmes which are aimed at improved economic efficiency and productivity.

It is one thing to have good Government policies - in this case, good labour policies - but a different thing to have good implementation of the policies. It becomes a question of good tools that remain unused or, if used, used haphazardly. Let me start by referring to the statement made by the hon the Minister of Labour on 3 August 1999 during a media briefing on the implementation of the Jobs Summit agreements, which he repeated this afternoon in this honourable House.

The hon the Minister, like millions of South Africans and in particular Government employees, unionists and community representatives, expresses a grave concern about the continued shedding of jobs throughout our economy. He said, and I quote:

Allow me at the outset to put to bed any simplistic notion that unemployment has somehow been caused by labour legislation.

We all accepted last year that the financial crisis in the East was principally responsible for the falling of our currency.

The question I would like to ask the hon the Minister is: Why are the unions continuously reacting with dismay to the Government’s move to implement the Jobs Summit agreements? In January 2000 the National Union of Public Servants and Allied Workers said that the Government was engaged in a move to undermine and ultimately get rid of statutory bargaining structures. Nupsaw stated categorically that they were never engaged by Government on any wage policy. What is the Government’s position with regard to this statement by Nupsaw?

The union went further to accuse the Government of conniving with some unions in the implementation of labour policies without the consent and knowledge of other unions. This is irreconcilable with the announcement made by the hon the Minister during the briefing on the implementation of the Jobs Summit agreements, and today, in this hon House. It cannot be argued that the unions that made these statements are those which are not affiliated to Cosatu, which is an ally of the ruling party.

Cosatu has also, on numerous occasions, publicly differed with the Government and expressed dissatisfaction with the implementation of some labour policies, in particular the Gear policy. Now, what are the hon the Minister’s plans to address these challenges, given the situation and recognising that our economy, in this early stage of a profound transition, faces the threat of a global economic crisis?

According to the social plan agreement between the department and other key role-players, growth and job creation are urgent priorities and the social plan approach aims to avoid job losses and employment decline. The UDM welcomes and supports this statement. While one would welcome this move by our hon Minister, the social plan approach - and in particular the social plan technical support facility - which is aimed at exploring alternatives to employment, as well as the establishment of retirement response teams and other services, becomes irreconcilable. There is a continuous loss of jobs without alternatives, in spite of the existence of the social plan approach.

Reference was also made to the integrated provincial project which is driven by the Department of Trade and Industry and which bring together Government departments which are responsible for infrastructural development. [Time expired.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, the next speaker will be making a maiden speech. Please give her the courtesy she deserves. [Applause.]

Miss T E LISHIVHA: Chairperson, making the workplace safe and healthy for workers is the basis of the occupational health discipline and is a mandate given to the department.

This mandate excludes the health and safety of mineworkers. The main objectives are, firstly, to promote the co-regulation of the management of occupational health and safety in the industrial sector; secondly, to address the backlog of accident investigation; and, thirdly, to develop a career path for occupational health and safety inspectors, etc.

There is regulation by the department to ensure that health and safety standards are implemented in the workplace, such as lead regulation, facilities regulation, general safety regulation, etc. The workers must have protective clothing, such as safety shoes, overalls, gloves, etc, because everyone should work in a safe environment.

The total number of accidents, according to the industry, from 1995 to 1999 was only 120 which means that it is not the same as in previous years. This number has decreased because the Government is now implementing the regulations to force the industrial sector to use protective equipment.

A zwi ambi uri vhatholi a vho ngo zwi ḓivha uri vhashumi vha fanela u tsireledzwa. Vho zwi ita nga khole. Ṋamusi muvhuso u ḓo sala mutholi muṅwe na muṅwe murahu malugana na tsireledzo ya vhashumi. (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraph follows.)

[It does not mean that employers did not know that workers must be protected. They did it deliberately. Today, the Government will ensure that every employer protects his employees.]

The Constitution affords everyone the right to a healthy and safe environment. Improving workers’ health is still a major challenge facing the country.

Fhedzi, ngauri Mudzimu ha laṱi vhana vhawe, ndi ngazwo muvhuso une wa khou vhusa zwino u tshi khou lusa u tandulula vhuaḓa ho itiwaho nga vhatholi vho vhaisaho vhathu vho itaho zwibveledzwa zwine vhatholi vha ḓiṱongisa ngazwo zwino. Muvhuso wo vhetshela vhathu vhane vha ḓo vhona uri hu na tsireledzo na mutakalo fhethu hu shumelwaho hone. Vha ḓo sedza na uri tshomedzo dza hone dzo tea naa. Ingoho, vhathu vhanzhi vho fhela nga u huvhadzwa nga matsimbi na matombo mishumoni. Muvhuso wa vhathu wo ḓiimisela uri zwo raloho zwi songo tsha bvelela. Zwi dina ngauri mushumi u a huvhala kana a lovha ngeno muṱa wawe wa sala u sa wani tshithu. Zwi vhonala ngauri vhatholi a vha na zwikwama zwa ndindakhombo. Muvhuso muswa u ḓo ita uri hu vhe na tshikwama tsha ndindakhombo tsha mushumeli muṅwe na muṅwe. Muvhuso washu wo zwi sedza wa dovha wa zwi sala murahu uri zwi itehe hoṱhe kha vhashumi vha Afurika Tshipembe. Ri ḓo dovha hafhu ra ṱuṱuwedza uri na vhafumakadzi vha lavheleswe nga iṱo ḽa vhuthu musi vho ḓihwala, ngauri kanzhi vha a shumiswa u swika ḓuvha ḽa u vhofholowa. Vha dovha hafhu vha lavhelelwa u vhuya mushumoni murahu ha maḓuvha maṱanu kana maṱuku kha maṱanu. Zwenezwo zwi sumba u sa lavhelesa mutakalo wa muṅwe muthu ngauri muthu o raloho u vha a sa athu u khwaṱha miraḓo.

Ri khou fululedza muvhuso washu wo ṱalifhaho ngauri u na milayo i itaho uri hu vhe na mbavhalelo ya mutakalo wa muthu. Muthu u na iyo pfanelo ngauri ha ngo fhamabana na mutholi wawe. Kha ri tikedze muvhuso washu kha nḓila dzine wa khou lingedza u tsireledza na u vhavhalela mutakalo wa vhathu mishumoni. Arali vhashumi vha tshi farwa nga malwadze na u vhulawa hu nga si vhe na zwibveledzwa. Phanḓa na u tikedza muvhuso hoyu wo ṱalifhaho! Muvhuso u lwelwaho vhathu vho tambudzwaho nga u sa vhudzwa pfanelo dzavho.

Ri livhuha muhasho wo ḓaho na mulayo une wa tsireledza muthu muṅwe na muṅwe mushumoni wawe. [U vhanda zwanḓa.] (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraph follows.)

[That is why the present Government is pursuing a solution to the carelessness of the previous employers who oppressed people whose products they are now boasting about, and which shows that God does not forsake his children. The Government has put in place people who will see to it that there is safety and health standards in the workplace. They will also check if the machines are fit for use. Indeed, many people have been disabled because of injury by machines and other things at work. The present Government is determined to stop that from happening again. What is also worrying is that there is no compensation for injured people or to the next of kin after a death on duty. The Government is putting in place legislation that will cover all workers in the form of a compensation fund.

Our Government has investigated the possibility and made a follow-up so that all workers in South Africa should be compensated. We also appeal for good treatment of pregnant women, because they are mostly in employment until the day of delivery. They are also expected to return to work after no more than five days or less. This therefore means disregard of an employee’s health because she is still not fit to work.

We applaud our wise Government for having laws that ensure health care for everyone. Anyone has that right because one does not differ from one’s employer. Let us all support our Government in its cause for health care of people at work. If workers are ill and killed, there cannot be any production. Forward with the support of this wise Government! The Government has fought for people who suffered because of lack of human rights.

We thank this department which has come up with laws for protecting everyone in the workplace. [Applause.]]

Adv Z L MADASA: Mr Chairman, the Department of Labour has done very well in putting in place a framework for skills development through the establishment of various institutions and mechanisms. This is commended and endorsed by the ACDP. Skills development is essential for the reduction of unemployment. South Africa will only become a strong global player economically when we have a sufficiently skilled labour source. The country must invest in its people to ensure future economic growth.

``The Department of Labour is not an employer, but a provider of skills for the Government,’’ the director-general said when he briefed the labour committee on the budget. However, personnel expenditure still accounts for about 64,7% of the total budget. I would submit that taking into account the stated function of the department, personnel expenditure is unacceptably high. The director-general also hinted at the possibility of overexpenditure on personnel because there are vacancies that have not been filled. If this is the case, the Treasury instructions for full-cost budgeting have been transgressed by the department. Improper budgeting is tantamount to financial mismanagement.

The Minister of Finance, in his Budget speech, stated that budgeting has an important part to play and is central to improving the quality of public service. He also said:

Although we must not forget that it is people who deliver services, we must also acknowledge that a better balance between personnel and nonpersonnel spending will improve the quality of the services we have to deliver.

The department, whose function - in the words of the director-general - it is to provide skills, must reflect the balance that the Minister of Finance referred to. Personnel expenditure must come down for speedy and efficient service delivery, for the simple reason that the state does not have money. The Department of Labour will not be able to contribute satisfactorily to the overall stated aim of the Government, namely to improve service delivery, unless personnel expenditure is reduced drastically. [Time expired.]

Dr P W A MULDER: Mr Chairman, on behalf of the FF I would like to express our congratulations to President Mbeki and the hon the Minister of Labour on some of their positions regarding the illegal Volkswagen strike. If things had gone wrong there, the message to the outside world would have been very bad for South Africa.

Unemployment is South Africa’s biggest problem. I am convinced that unemployment is also the main cause of our totally unacceptable crime rate. How do we solve it? By creating more jobs. It is as simple as that. But the Government cannot create the jobs. The private sector must do that.

Broadly speaking, our economy is healthy and growing. Yet, no jobs are being created. Why? I would venture to say that it is because of our labour relations legislation. If I want to buy my family a new car, there are many factors to consider. The most important is that I have five children. I would like to buy myself a Porsche, but it has only two seats and is very expensive. I would have to consider buying a Toyota Hi-Ace or a Volkswagen Microbus. After 1994, the ANC Government went and bought itself a Porsche as far as labour legislation is concerned, most probably because of Cosatu’s influence. Modern legislation based on European models is heavily weighted in the workers’ favour, but the European labour markets are Porsches while we need a Toyota Hi-Ace in South Africa.

In South Africa we lose more jobs daily than we create. Between 1975 and 1994, R5,7 billion was invested in industrial technology by employers, that is automatisation.

In Europa het die getal werkers die afgelope 20 jaar bykans konstant gebly. In sommige lande het die getal werkers selfs verminder en hul wetgewing is daarvoor geskryf. In Amerika is die situasie nader aan die Suid-frikaanse een, waar ‘n mens groot getalle nuwe werkers het wat die arbeidsmark betree en daar mededinging in die werkplek is, asook groot getalle ongeskoolde arbeiders.

Die Regering het gesê hy gaan kyk na die arbeidswetgewing ten einde die onvoorsiene gevolge daarvan te verbeter. Hierna moet gekyk word, want ons het ‘n Porsche en ons kort ‘n Toyota. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [In Europe the number of workers has remained almost the same over the past 20 years. In some countries the number of workers has even decreased and their legislation was written for that purpose. In America the situation is closer to that of South Africa, where one has large numbers of new workers entering the job market and where there is competition in the workplace, as well as large numbers of unskilled labourers.

The Government has said that it would be examining labour legislation in order to improve on unforeseen consequences. This must be looked at, because we have a Porsche and what we need is a Toyota. [Time expired.]]

Ms L A ABRAHAMS: Mr Chairman, as South Africa’s young economy is catapulted into the 21st century, it faces major economic and social challenges and constraints. The poor skills profile within South Africa is one such constraint and is likely to act as a brake on growth.

The skills development strategy does not claim that skills on their own will deliver economic and employment growth in our country, as skills development is not simply about preparing people to perform routine tasks in an unchanging environment, but also about empowering people to perform at a high standard, where standards are measured by their appropriateness for a specified period whilst dynamic social and economic purposes are achieved.

Skills development is an area which in the past was neglected. Apartheid planners invested in infrastructure and a small minority. This legacy is still felt today. Through the skills development programme and the transformation embarked on since 1994, our society is being transformed in order to deal with the legacy.

The skills development programme will create an ideal setting for industrial growth that abounds with opportunities in every sector of our economy. Minister Tito Mboweni, in the foreword of the Green Paper on skills development, said, and I quote:

This strategy aims to set in motion a skills revolution in our country and nothing less than a revolution will suffice when one considers the urgent need for employment and productivity growth in our country.

The need for the programme cannot be overemphasised. South Africa has been rated as having one of the poorest human resource development records in the world. The poor quality of basic education and the systematic exclusion of black South Africans from decent training opportunities are major contributors to this. There has been a serious failure to address middle- level skills requirements in our society. We see the decline in the apprenticeship system and the failure to put anything in its place.

Skills shortages at these and higher levels constrain productivity growth within enterprises and limit the self-employment or employment options of individuals. The level of industrial training in South Africa is much lower than that of our major trading partners. The sectors in which most of our growth and employment opportunities are likely to occur in the future spend less on skills development than the national average.

Most industry training is informal. A very small portion of formal training is provided to lower-level workers. There is a failure on the part of firms to recognise the importance of training within the new competitive environment and the need for training to be strategically integrated into their competitive strategies. These legacies and the huge challenges facing South Africa in terms of employment, growth and development demand a new conceptual approach to skills development. The overall vision is of a human resource development system which promotes economic and employment growth and social development through a focus on education, training and employment services. The approach does not suggest that the supply side of the system should be disregarded or neglected, but rather that it should be improved within the context of demand-led training.

The low skills base is one of the reasons for the low levels of investment in our country. General schooling and the good efforts of individual companies or industries are insufficient to turn this situation around. It requires national intervention to strengthen the link between workplace education, training, economic growth and employment opportunities. There is a critical need to manage the dislocation caused by structural change, to eliminate institutional impediments to employment creation and to hasten the process towards a sustainable, inclusive labour force. International evidence suggests a need to focus on investment in human development, including education, training and basic welfare. The key to achieving higher employment rates lies in unlocking the structural barriers to labour absorption.

The social partners and other stakeholders have lent their support to this. The major challenge, however, will be to implement the institutional arrangements needed for execution. Putting South Africa on a developmental and employment-absorbing growth path is a long-term challenge which will only become reality if the partnership between business, labour and Government is continued. We have already reached milestones in transformation with key victories such as the passing and implementation of the Labour Relations Act, the Basic Conditions of Employment Act, the Employment Equity Act, the Skills Development Act and the Skills Development Levies Act.

I want to take this opportunity to commend the department on their achievement with regard to the skills programme. The National Skills Authority, which is made up of stakeholders, the National Skills Fund and a skills planning unit within the department, has been established. The department has driven extensive preparations with stakeholders in order to set up 26 sector and education training authorities. A funding regulation outlining how firms can claim back grants from levies paid was published in February.

Significant progress has been made in the implementation of learnerships, including a pilot project in KwaZulu-Natal and the launch of a tourism sector initiative funded by the Department of Labour and the Business Trust, which will result in 15 000 learnerships.

I would like to thank the Ministry for extending its obligation to establish and enforce … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Before I call the next speaker, I must ask the hon Mpontshane and the hon Peter Smith please to pay attention to the debate. [Laughter.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon members, I want firstly to congratulate the hon T E Lishivha on her maiden speech.

In South Africa the informal economy does matter. It encompasses all economic activities pursued without the sanction of the authorities, that is those that are not recorded in the national accounts. The market efficiency in the informal sector is determined by the availability of labour and resources. Most of us have implicitly assumed that unrecorded economic activity is a good thing. This view is not universally accepted. The degree of involvement of informal economic activities does not necessarily complement the formal economic sector.

An informal producer may supply goods to a capitalist at a low price. This allows the capitalist to pay lower wages to his or her workers, thus increasing the rate of exploitation. The freedom from red tape is a mixed blessing. Some informal activities impose substantial external costs on society. For example, the vending of foodstuffs may increase the risk of epidemic disease. Furthermore, the employee may be subjected to poor working conditions which can increase the risk of occupational disease and accidents. In the event of exploitation, most often legal resources against the employer prove to be difficult and expensive.

The informal economy serves as a buffer against unemployment. Owing to the lack of information, it is clear that the policy-making for the informal sector is complex. Therefore survey data in estimating the nature and extent of the labour force in participating in the hidden economy is a necessity. What is problematic in South Africa is that in the past many nonwhite citizens were forced to confine themselves to specific regions. Consequently, a discrepancy in per capita income was a result of political distortions imposed on the economy. Therefore there is an enormous difference in production capacity and standards of living between rural and urban South Africans.

One of the most important implications for policy to consider today is the result of previous attempts to keep the disadvantaged out of the major urban areas. However, we must also consider that the nature of the current education system and limitations on the acquisition of skills have a negative impact on the economy. This has resulted in most of the national labour force being unskilled.

Although income redistribution between whites and the historically disadvantaged has taken place, this redistribution has not necessarily been equally shared. On the whole it is the skilled nonwhite labour force that has benefited from the economic transformation. The unskilled labour force is still suffering. Amendment of the Labour Relations Act is necessary to eliminate the enormous backlogs in the CCMA in order to empower arbitrators to mediate and pass meaningful and legitimate awards to wronged employees and employers, which will reduce the backlog in labour courts.

Unfortunately, the present labour system is being exploited by unscrupulous entrepreneurs. These entrepreneurs exploit employees by exhausting the companies’ disciplinary and grievance procedure in courts. The companies’ main aim with this attitude is to manipulate and take full advantage of the huge backlogs at the CCMA.

Due to the lengthy waiting period of the present labour legal resource system, some aggrieved employees do not have the moral stamina to pursue their cases. This unfortunately works to the advantage of the company. Arbitration with teeth will eliminate the daunting challenge to employees of having to go through the unnecessary phases of labour law and process.

The Employment Equity Act, although promulgated, is not implemented to its fullest capacity. The unemployment equity commission which should have been in place has not yet materialised. Many companies, more especially in the private sectors have just recently started forming employment equity committees, which definitely … [Time expired.]

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mnr die Voorsitter, arbeid is ‘n emosionele en ‘n baie sensitiewe saak in enige land, en soveel te meer in ‘n land soos Suid- Afrika waar ons staan in ‘n proses van transformasie. Voeg daarby die feit dat georganiseerde arbeid een van die vennote in die regeringskoalisie is, en die saak raak nog meer ingewikkeld. Voeg daarby die groot werkloosheidsyfer in ons land, waaruit blyk dat elke arbeidsgeleentheid ‘n skaars en gesogte kommoditeit is, en ons besef dat nie die ideologiese nie, maar die ekonomiese oorwegings hier voorrang moet geniet.

In sy presidentsrede het die agb mnr Mbeki aangedui dat sekere aspekte van die arbeidswetgewing onvoorsiene nadelige gevolge inhou. Hy het aangekondig dat ‘n hersiening daarvan in die vooruitsig gestel word. Die grootste onvoorsiene gevolg is die kontraproduktiewe effek van hierdie wette. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [Mr C AUCAMP: Mr Chairperson, labour is an emotional and very sensitive matter in any country, and even more so in a country such as South Africa, where we are engaged in a process of transformation. In addition, organised labour is one of the partners in the government coalition and hence the matter becomes even more complicated. In addition to that, we have a very high unemployment rate in our country, and consequently every job opportunity is a scarce and sought-after commodity, which makes us realise that not ideological ideas, but economic considerations, should receive priority in this regard.

In his presidential address the hon Mr Mbeki indicated that certain aspects of the labour legislation have unforeseen detrimental effects. He announced that its revision is being envisaged. The most important unforeseen consequence is the counterproductive effect of these laws.]

I must say ``unforeseen’’ in inverted commas, because different opposition parties did actually foresee these so-called unforeseen consequences of our labour laws.

Die arbeidswette wat by uitstek die werker wil beskerm, is kontraproduktief. Wetgewing maak die arbeidskommoditeit so duur en onbekostigbaar dat eerder oorgeskakel word na kapitaalintensiewe as arbeidsintensiewe ondernemings. Die gevolg: groter werkloosheid.

Rekonstruksie vind plaas sodat die status van werkers van voltydse werknemers na tydelike kontrakwerkers met minder voordele verander word. Regstellende aksie in die werkplek kom neer op gewettigde diskriminasie met gevolglike verlies aan kundigheid, ervaring en produktiwiteit. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The labour legislation aimed pre-eminently at the protection of the worker is counterproductive. As a result of legislation the labour commodity is so expensive and unaffordable that we have changed over to capital-intensive rather than labour-intensive enterprises. The result: more unemployment.

Reconstruction takes place so that the status of workers is changed from that of full-time workers to that of part-time contract workers with fewer benefits. Affirmative action in the workplace is tantamount to legalised discrimination, with a consequent loss of competence, experience and productivity.] The AEB is of the opinion that to approach a better labour dispensation, attempts must be made to achieve the following goals. The structuring of a more flexible labour market should encourage employers to employ, not to retrench. Adversarialism in the workplace should be reduced and co- operation and joint decision-making encouraged.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: How do we do that?

Mr C AUCAMP: That is the hon the Minister’s job. Every employee’s job security should be protected as far as possible, and the rights of minority unions should be protected. Greater emphasis should be placed on the constitutional right of every employee to freedom of association. With these goals in mind, the AEB proposes, inter alia, the following amendments to existing labour laws, and I will concentrate only on the Employment Equity Act.

Only affirmative-action programmes in terms of Chapter 3 of the Act may be considered to be so-called fair discrimination. The current wording is too wide and open to abuse by employers. Chapter 3 of the Act should specifically prohibit any type of affirmative action that establishes an absolute barrier to the employment of persons from nondesignated groups. This Chapter should also place an obligation on an employer to ensure that affirmative measures are implemented in a manner that is least likely to unreasonably limit the rights of employees from nondesignated groups. It should also prohibit the dismissal of employees as a measure to obtain a more representative workforce. The composition of the Commission for Employment Equity should be revised to include a representative from nondesignated groups.

Verder moet dit in gedagte gehou word dat die nuwe wet op gelyke indiensneming werknemers uit nie-aangewese groepe feitlik per definisie uitsluit sodat hulle geen beskerming geniet nie. Die Wet op Arbeidsbetrekkinge sal ek daar laat weens ‘n gebrek aan tyd.

Samevattend wil ek sê die hoë en toenemende werkloosheidsyfer in Suid- Afrika onderstreep die feit dat ideologies gedrewe ingrepe en regeringsmanipulering van die arbeidsmark besig is om te boemerang teen hulle wat veronderstel is om daaruit bevoordeel te word. Alleen die privaatsektor kan deur ekonomiese groei die oplossing bied vir werkloosheid. Ons moet die markkragte toelaat om hulle natuurlike rol te speel, en die massale vlak van armoede, waartoe werkloosheid die grootste bydrae lewer, sal op natuurlike wyse die hoof gebied word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Furthermore, it must be borne in mind that the new Act on equal employment virtually by definition excludes employees from non-designated groups so that they do not enjoy any protection. I shall not discuss the Labour Relations Act owing to the fact that my time is limited.

I want to summarise by saying that the high and increasing rate of unemployment in South Africa underlines the fact that ideologically-driven interventions and Government manipulation of the labour market are starting to boomerang on those people who are supposed to benefit from them. Only the private sector can, by means of economic growth, solve the problem of unemployment. We must allow the market forces to play their natural role, and the massive rate of poverty, in respect of which unemployment is the largest contributing factor, will be rectified in a natural way.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, the next speaker, M J G Mzondeki, will be speaking from his seat. [Applause.]

Mr M J G MZONDEKI: Chair, hon members, when the then Minister of Labour presented the Green Paper on Skills Development Strategy for Economic and Employment Growth in South Africa, he said:

It aims to set in motion a skills revolution in our country, and nothing less than a skills revolution will suffice when one considers the urgent need for employment and productivity growth in our country.

He further said:

This strategy does not claim that the development of skills on its own will achieve these objectives, but it argues that skilled people are a fundamentally necessary part of any economic employment growth strategy.

In pursuit of this objective, the Department of Labour is implementing a skills development programme. The passing of the Skills Development Act of 1998 and the Skills Development Levies Act of 1999 laid a foundation for this programme to take its course. The purpose of these Acts is not only to improve the quality of life of workers but also to improve the prospects of the previously disadvantaged to enter the labour market as well as to redress those disadvantages through training and education. It is also aimed at assisting work-seekers to find work and retrenched workers to re- enter the labour market.

I speak on behalf of the Free State Goldfields constituency where workers are not only hit by the gold-bearing rock, but are also hard-hit by the retrenchments. Allow me then to say that amongst those hit the hardest by the pass laws of apartheid are people with disabilities. This is truly because they were not only denied education, but they were also denied an opportunity to learn through exposure to the working environment, because, as many of us will know, there was no dedicated skills programme, and we learnt through our experiences in the work environment.

Many disabled people were injured on the mines in mining accidents while digging gold under the worst conditions and subject to poor safety standards. I say this, having worked on the mines both underground and on the surface myself for the better part of my life. Because there were no skills development programmes or labour laws that protected people from being repatriated when they were declared unfit for one category of employment, most of those disabled workers saw their way home without compensation and without, at least, any skills to fend for themselves. And it is against this background that I fully support the Department of Labour in embarking on this skills development programme.

The few that remained on the mines were placed on the lowest category of jobs - such as cleaners, general labourers, and so on - even though some of them, through exposure at work, had risen to supervisory levels. Hon members will know that some of us were called amabaasboy [baasboys]. We had the responsibility of digging gold from underground, but when some of us became disabled they were placed in those lower-category jobs. Today these workers are able to challenge these unfair dismissals through the provisions of the Labour Relations Act, but more so, they can go home and move to other SETAS equipped with skills. I say this because in the constituency where I come from, already mineworkers have benefited from the social plan. I acknowledge that not enough is being done; there is still room to improve the social plan to benefit more people. Many disabled mineworkers who were retrenched in the Free State Goldfields have for the first time, through the implementation of the social plan, been able to go home equipped with skills.

Allow me also to focus on some of the initiatives by the Department of Labour to empower the previously disadvantaged. The Department of Labour is embarking on the transformation of the so-called sheltered employment factories. There are 13 of them in the country, R18 million is budgeted for them and they employ 1 500 disabled people. There are concerns about this scheme, which was initially intended to accommodate disabled people as they were, at the time, discriminated against and were not allowed into the labour market.

The problem is that of that 1 500, only 460 are black people. The rest, about 1 000, are white people. If one looks at the geographic spread of those centres, one finds that it does not benefit the most disadvantaged, ie the disabled people in the rural areas, which is why I support the initiative of the department to seriously embark upon the transformation process of these schemes. There is no dedicated plan at these centres: while some of the people might be able to exit from these centres into the labour market, it is not as a result of a dedicated plan, but of exposure to the work environment.

I thus fully support the Minister in embarking on this transformation process. Also, this is undermining the principle indicated in the Integrated Disability Strategy, which proposes that disabled people be integrated into the labour market. If one looks at these schemes, one finds that they are putting disabled people in some corner and that is against the principle, as I said, proposed in the Integrated Disability Strategy.

In conclusion, I want to thank the Minister of Labour for his commitment to ensuring an enabling environment for all to access jobs, and his staff for their commitment to turning the labour centres into client-friendly centres. [Applause.]

Prince N E ZULU: Deputy Chairperson, Minister of Labour, Ministers of state and Deputy Ministers present in the Chamber, hon members, three weeks from now workers the world over will celebrate their famous Workers’ Day: famous in the sense that they will be celebrating the fruits of their labour in the past 12 months, realised individually and collectively. Their profits are practical and valuable. They enrich the heart, calm the mind and console the spirit. They cause the workers to want to produce more and better, behave onerously and love management even more in another 12 months to come. At the end of my address, I am going to support the Vote on Labour on behalf of my party if I am not cut short by that pronouncement: ``Time has expired’’. [Laughter.]

What is it that workers in South Africa will celebrate on 1 May 2000 in the face of the present state of our economy, which is stagnating or shrinking? Are the workers going to celebrate the many thousands of jobs lost in the labour market? Are they going to celebrate the threat of many more jobs still to be lost in the mines, manufacturing sector, Public Service and agriculture? Staff shortages in some departments are alarming, and one would not like to expose the statistics. While staff is short, the workload is shared among serving personnel at the cost of efficiency and morale. Is that what the workers will celebrate next month?

While the principle of taxi recapitalisation is welcomed to a mild degree, what about the jobs to be lost in the process by taxi owners, spare parts manufacturers, taxi drivers and cleaners? There is no logic in the theory that one should shed many jobs in order to create many more jobs, as some pundits would like us to believe. Workers in the industry have no cause to celebrate, but to mourn the prospects of losing their jobs in thousands.

Unemployment is a devil on the throat of society. It is a scourge eating into the fibre and morale of men and women, young and old. It manifests itself in crime, abject poverty, illiteracy and behaviour that is unknown to humankind. While the country is steeped in such crisis of unprecedented unemployment, workers do not find cause to celebrate but to group and regroup, crying over the economy that stifles the budget for Labour.

We saw workers flexing their muscles against the previous regime. We saw how telling their blow was to the system that strangled their freedom, and we better sound a warning against misdirected worker power if concerns about economic growth remain a pie in the sky.

Yes, the IFP also supports Vote 19 - luckily, I have not been cut short! But the IFP has concerns about the incentive package that is shoddy and unable to make South Africa an attractive investment destination over other developing nations. Despite all the explanations given in the budget summary on employment and skills development services, nothing satisfies the mind if this year’s allocation is slashed by 32,5%. Workers will find it difficult to celebrate this decrease.

Ms H F MALEBANA: Mr Chairperson and hon members, on 27 April 1994, millions of workers woke up very early in the morning. But on that day they were not going to their normal exploitative workplaces. They were not going to the bosses, who were always in the offices planning the fate of the overworked workers. On the dawn of that day, they were going to the polls to cast their vote.

Ba be ba ile gore go beng mešomo: Go lekane lehono, ge le le dinkwe, rena, bjalo ka bašomi, re mapogo. [They were going to say to the employers: Enough is enough.]

Why this excitement? The poor workers knew that, on that day, their cross would wipe the tears from their eyes and the sweat from their foreheads, and also clean up their blood, as some of them were beaten or even killed for their labour. They woke up, knowing that, as from that day, the cross they had made - a right they were denied for centuries - was going to usher new meaning into their lives. The party they were going to elect was going to take the heavy load from their shoulders.

In 1956, H S Erasmus, an MP during NP rule said, and I quote:

It is most desirable that all young natives, say between 15 and 16 years of age, be placed in youth camps so that they can do land service and do it gratis. There they must be taught to work with a pick and shovel because they will need this knowledge in their lives.

As one listens to some members of the Opposition and reads newspaper articles written by them, one hears echoes of Erasmus. They try to entrench child labour and dehumanise farmworkers who, as we know, work in extremely squalid and appalling conditions under oppressive farmers who can only be described as brutal and brutish in the extreme. In the past, our workers were not allowed to form unions. As a result, they were subject to the whims of their employers.

Molaotheo wa Afrika-Borwa o šireletša bašomi. Wona o re ga go motho yo a swanetšego go šomiswa bjalo ka lekgoba, goba go šomišwa ka kgapeletšo. Bana le bona ga ba swanela go gapeletšwa go šoma pele ga ge ba le nywaga ye lesomehlano. Ngwana yo a šomago ga a swanela go šoma mošomo wa ba bagolo mo a ka gobalago, goba a hlagelwa ke ditlamorago tšeo di ka mo šitišago go phela bokaone ge a gola. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[The Constitution of South Africa protects workers, and it provides that no one may be subjected to slavery, servitude or forced labour. Children too should not be forced to work unless they are above 15 years of age. Every child has a right not to be required to or permitted to perform work or provide services that are inappropriate for a person of that child’s age, that might result in their injury or consequences that might impact negatively on their future.]

The Department of Labour has the interests of workers at heart, and therefore bends over backwards in trying to change people’s lives for the better. When we therefore say that we are a nation at work trying to create a better life for all, we include the Department of Labour. The department has initiated and implemented legislation enabling the promotion of sound and stable relations in the workplace, the protection of the rights of workers and employers and the provision of a range of services to thousands of citizens, including those in the remotest parts of this country, the jobless and the vulnerable, especially domestic and farmworkers.

Government’s commitment to the protection and safeguarding of workers’ rights started with the RDP document. It stressed basic organisational rights for all workers, such as them being able to join the union of their choice, workers’ entitlement to a living wage and collective bargaining power at national and industrial level, as well as at their workplace, so as to give them a say in decision-making. Affirmative action was introduced to address discrimination in companies.

These actions culminated in the Government’s passing of the Employment Equity Act and the Skills Development Act. The Employment Equity Act seeks to achieve equality in the workplace, to ensure the promotion of equal opportunities for all workers and to eliminate unfair discrimination. It also ensures that discrimination against women and the disabled are addressed. The Skills Development Act promotes the training of these workers. The Labour Relations Act strengthens the organisational rights of workers. It promotes centralised bargaining councils and protects workers against dismissal in legal strikes. The Labour Relations Act also covers those workers who were previously excluded, namely domestic and farmworkers and public servants.

A number of statutory bodies were established to ensure that workers are treated fairly, and that their labour is recognised. These include the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, the Labour Court, the National Skills Authority and the Sectoral Education and Training Authorities.

The CCMA plays an active role in ensuring that disputes are resolved amicably. In order to fulfil its objectives, the department has to ensure that it functions effectively and that it strengthens the CCMA. The Labour Court has to be adequately resourced in order for it to fulfil its functions. We welcome the increase in this programme.

The department also has to develop the National Skills Authority and to ensure that Sectoral Education and Training Authorities are built in order to train the previously disadvantaged and vulnerable workers into an effective and employable labour force.

The Labour Relations Act has enhanced organisational rights for trade unions as entrenched in the Constitution. It has also entrenched the constitutional right to strike, simplified dispute resolution procedures, promoted sectoral collective bargaining and codified dismissal procedures. Nevertheless, there are problems and unintended consequences.

In the ANC’s 1999 election manifesto, the President said:

Our central challenge for the next five years is to use the experience we gained, the policies we have put into place and institutions of democracy we have created to bring about even greater change than we have achieved in the first five years of democratic government.

This will have to be realised, as we are saying that there are flaws in the Labour Relations Act and the Basic Conditions of Employment Act, and that we need to deal with that in order to correct them. This only means that certain sections within the laws have to be amended.

Section 23 of the Constitution says: ``Everyone has the right to fair labour practices.’’ This applies to all workers, and it must be obeyed by all employers and employees. It also regulates working hours, overtime, and maternity leave. The Basic Conditions of Employment Act also sets conditions for what must happen when an employer, owing to operational requirements, has to terminate an employee’s service.

Tshepedišo le phethagatšo ya molao wo, e dirwa ke bahlahlobi ba mešomo. Bona ba fiwa maatla a go nyakišiša le go hlahloba dillo tša bašomi; go botšiša batho ka ga mešomo le dingwalwa le dibuka tša beng-mešomo. [The implementation of this Act is supervised by labour inspectors, who are authorised to enquire into and attend to employees’ grievances, to assess the work done by employees and to check employers’ records.]

This Vote seeks to ensure that productive employment opportunities are opened up for new work-seekers. It will also help to improve the effectiveness of labour markets by investing more in skills development and training. This, of course, will be achieved through the Skills Development Act and the Skills Development Levies Act. Both these Acts attempt to strengthen the link between workplace education and training, and economic growth and employment opportunities.

The 15-point programme of action of the department gives the intention and vision of the department for the creation of a labour market that is conducive to economic growth. The department is committed to playing a significant role in the reduction of unemployment, poverty and inequalities.

These Acts, in partnership with the Vote, will help curb the low rate of the creation of productive employment, inefficient utilisation of labour owing to discriminatory practices and the denial of fair labour standards to the majority of the workers.

I would like urge the Minister to proceed and tell him that we support the Vote. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr N S BRUCE: Chairperson, in early February hon President Thabo Mbeki announced that the hon Minister of Labour had led a review of labour market legislation to remove the unintended consequences of the Labour Relations Act, the Basic Conditions of Employment Act and the Insolvency Act. He said that these unintended consequences arose from the contrasting claims of fair labour practice and the fostering of economic growth sufficient to create jobs. The President said that the Minister of Labour had not only already interacted with Nedlac on this matter, but he would also introduce changes this year.

The number of unemployed has continued to rise and will still rise further. The rand has continued to fall, and will continue to fall further, while the growth which the economy is experiencing now, as a result of commodity price increases and not Government policy, is not enough to arrest either of these two morbid trends.

The hon the Minister has this afternoon described the working of markets in disturbingly inaccurate caricature. Markets fail if the Government places impediments in their way. Governments who do not take notice of markets have failed everywhere. The United States is a profit-driven country and one of the most free and most humane in the world. [Interjections.] By contrast, Cuba or China, countries that are driven by compulsion and fear, are characterised by inhumanity and poverty as a result. [Interjections.]

Ever since the President’s remarks on the labour laws, the hon the Minister of Labour has been prevaricating. He knows that fixed capital investment is vital to job creation. He knows that investors are, with reason, sceptical of our labour laws. He answers them with an ill-informed attack on market economics, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. He has done enormous harm this afternoon to this country’s investment prospects. [Interjections.]

Apart from growing queues of jobless, the urgency of these labour law reforms has been illustrated by the plight of one of Government’s own businesses, the South African Airways. It wants full exemption from the Basic Conditions of Employment Act. When the hon the Minister confronts this request, he will be caught between the intemperate trade unions demanding more laws, and the ambitious young American Republican running SAA, Mr Coleman Andrews, whom Government appointed, demanding fewer laws. What is the hon the Minister going to sacrifice - trade union votes or the jobs that a profitable company will generate? He is going to need the wisdom of Solomon to solve this problem, and, quite frankly, from what he said about economics this afternoon, he does not have it. [Laughter.]

If a company the size of SAA cannot operate profitably, burdened by our labour laws, what hope have medium to small companies - the very companies that are able to create more jobs and quickly at that? The hon the Minister’s own President has told him that labour reforms are necessary. Mr Andrews has given him an example and yet the Minister, vexed by the fact that he understands neither, claims to speak under inspiration. The Minister would have, would he not, for he has let go of facts. Perhaps what he meant was not inspiration, but perspiration. What he said was banal in the extreme. The DP cannot support a budget that underpins a policy that creates unemployment. [[Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr M A MAPHALALA: Chairperson, hon Minister and members, last week I attended two workshops, on skills development and levies, one in Gauteng and one in Durban in KwaZulu-Natal. Both workshops were attended with the full capacity of the attendants. The participants in these workshops were mainly representatives from business.

What I understood from what they were saying in those workshops - all of them without exception - was that they were grateful that at last, in South Africa, the Government was taking education and training seriously and was beginning to link the two. They were saying that with this approach and this move, the productivity and quality of products in South Africa would improve. They said that this would bring about better investment in South Africa and that it would increase the confidence of investors in South Africa.

I wondered, as I was sitting here listening to the speakers, mainly from the DP and one speaker from the New NP, whom they represent. All along I was under the impression that the DP represents big business. But, today, I concluded that they represent themselves. [Applause.] Today, I concluded that the New NP - those that are here - represent themselves. Perhaps, this answers the question of why the NP came into power in 1948, lost that power in 1994 and further lost power in 1999. Perhaps this answers this question, since they are not representing any constituency. [Applause.] I want to believe that the same thing applies to the DP. Their support is declining. They will see in the next elections. [Interjections.] [Applause.] An HON MEMBER: Siyanda. [We are increasing.]

Mr M A MAPHALALA: That is wishful thinking. The few things that the opposition has said here clearly indicate their interests. Secondly, this probably tells us about the composition of this House, that perhaps members on the Government side and few members on the opposition side - if I had time I would name those parties - are simply talking to themselves because, no matter how much one argues with the opposition here, they are not going to listen. There is no reason that will bring them back to their senses. [Interjections.]

We are talking about the Vote of the Department of Labour. Their concern is mainly that the Government wants to remove laws that make human beings in South Africa slaves. They say that they want to maintain that. They are talking of labour inflexibility. I would want to understand what that labour inflexibility is that they are talking about. [Interjections.] It is labour inflexibility to say that workers must be able to join organisations of their choice. It is labour inflexibility to say that there must be a minimum wage in South Africa. That is labour inflexibility, because they want to have people who will slave for them. They want people to work for R100 per month. That is what they want. [Applause.]

Mr M J ELLIS: How many jobs have you lost?

Mr M A MAPHALALA: I have lost so many jobs precisely because of that kind of approach of that member. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!

Mr M A MAPHALALA: Chairperson, there is a gentleman who is said to be an MP of the DP. I am not very sure whether it is the hon Bruce that was standing here before me. But in a newspaper of 27 …

An HON MEMBER: Which one?

Mr M A MAPHALALA: It does not matter. I will tell you later. Do not worry. He says that colonialism did not bring apartheid to South Africa. [Interjections.] He says colonialism and apartheid did not create suffering for Africans in South Africa, blacks in particular. [Interjections.] The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!

Mr M A MAPHALALA: He says that it is the inferiority of blacks that makes blacks suffer in South Africa. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!

Mr M A MAPHALALA: I wonder where such a type of person comes from. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

UMPHATHISWA WEZABASEBENZI: Mhlalingaphambili, mandibulele kakhulu kuMaphalala. Ndicinga ukuba uyiphalaze kakuhle le nyewe, akukho mfuneko ke yokuba ndibe ndizikhathaza ngale nkothovu yexhego ingu-Bruce … [Kwahlekwa] … eliqiqisholwana elibonakalayo ukuba libufanarha nenkuba- bulongo. [Kwahlekwa.] Ngoko ke andinakuzixakekisa ngaye.

Mandiwabulele kakhulu amalungu ekomiti yesebe lolawulo. Ndiva int’ embi ngokuba umhlalingaphambili wekomiti yesebe lolawulo abe akabanga nakho ukuba nathi namhlanje. Siva ukuba uye waya kutyandwa esibhedlele. Simnqwenelela impilo entle uSalie Manie. Kwakhona ndifuna ukubulela kuMlawuli-Jikelele weSebe lezaBasebenzi kunye neqela lakhe ngomsebenzi omhle kangaka abawenzayo kweli sebe.

Mandiwabulele onke amalungu athe athabatha inxaxheba kule ngxoxo namhlanje. Noko akukhange kutake zintlantsi. Bendiba i-DP iza kuza nento entsha. Ngelishwa ke namalungu azivele ukuba akukho nto intsha iza nayo. Iseyilaa DP iza nalaa nto indala, indyengelele yedlwebhe-dlwebhe lomhluzi ongacacanga. [Kwahlekwa.] Ngoko ke akukho mfuneko yokuzihlupha kakhulu ngabantu abafana ne-DP.

KuMnu Bakker, ndifuna ukuthi nje kuye ifani yam nguMdladlana, ngoko ke ndiyacela kwinkosi yam le ukuba xa indibiza ingathi ndinguMadladlana. [Kwahlekwa.] Andinguye uMadladlana ndinguMdladlana. [Kwahlekwa.] Akanakuthanda naye xa ndinokuthi ifani yakhe nguBhakilisi. [Kwahlekwa.] Uya kufuna ukuba ndimbize ngendlela eyiyo. Mabazifunde iilwimi zethu aba bafana kuba basebancinci, basibize ngendlela eyiyo, ukuze baze kukhula kakuhle ngoba ingcinezelo ye-NP yenza ukuba iingqondo zabo zithwangazele. [Uwele- wele.]

Intetho yam yomhla we-17 kuMatshi e-Germiston ibhaliwe. Amalungu ale Ndlu amele i-DP angayifumana xa eyifuna. Into endingazi kuyenza kukufela ubudenge nobuyatha bentatheli ye-Business Report bokudala impixano ngenxa yengqondo yayo engakwaziyo ukukhongozela kakuhle. Kutheni le nto ubuhiba nobuyatha bayo bubuzwa kum?

Kamnandi ke uHeremiya uyayithetha le nto athi: ``Umntu ngamnye uya kuma yedwa phambi koThixo wakhe aziphendulele ngokwakhe.’’ Ndiya kuzifela ke ezam izono, kodwa andisayi kufela izono zentatheli ye-Business Report.

ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILEYO: Amen! [Kwahlekwa.]

UMPHATHISWA: Ngoko ke, ohloniphekileyo uRudi Heine ukhangeleka ngathi utyibilikela ngakule nkalo sendiyizobe ngasentla yokukhangeleka eheshe- heshe apha entloko. Andinqweneli ke ukuntywila kwelo chibi labantu abashiywa ziingqondo.

Mandigqibele ngokubuza kohloniphekileyo uRudi Heine … (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)

[The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Let me truly thank hon Mr Maphalala. I think that he delivered what was said properly. There is, therefore, no need for me to bother myself about this ancient old man by the name of Bruce … [Laughter] … this prophet of doom who is obviously almost similar to a dungbeetle. [Laughter.] I therefore cannot keep myself occupied with him.

Let me truly thank the portfolio committee members. It is a pity that the chairperson of the portfolio committee could not be with us today. We heard that he has gone to hospital to undergo an operation. We wish Mr Salie Manie well. I also want to thank the Director-General of the Department of Labour and his team for the sterling work they are doing here.

Let me thank all the members who participated in this debate today. No sparks flew, though. I thought the DP would come up with something new. Unfortunately, they did not come up with anything new. The members heard for themselves. It is still the DP bringing the same old thing, a weak, unappetising, flavourless sauce. [Laughter.] So, there is no need for one to bother oneself too much about people like the members of the DP.

I just want to say to Mr Bakker that my surname is Mdladlana. I therefore ask this chief ' of mine not to refer to me as madladlana’ when mentioning my surname. [Laughter.] I am not madladlana', I am Mdladlana. [Laughter.] He, also, would not like it if I refer to him as bakilisi’ when mentioning his surname.[Laughter.] He would want me to pronounce his surname properly. These young men must learn our language because they are still young. In order to come right they must pronounce our names in a proper manner, because the NP oppression caused their mentality to wander.

My speech of 17 March in Germiston has been recorded. It is available if the DP members of this House need it. I am not going to allow myself to be sacrificed because of the stupidity and simpleness of the Business Report journalist in engineering conflict, owing to the inability of his brain to collect properly. Why is the idiocy and the stupidity of the journalist asked of me?

What is nice is that Jeremiah mentions this and says:

Each and every person will stand alone before his Lord and give account.

So, I am going to pay the price for my own sins, but I am not going to be sacrificed for the sins of a Business Report journalist.

An HON MEMBER: Amen!

The MINISTER: Therefore, the hon Rudi Heine appears to be drifting towards being someone who seems to be mentally disturbed, as already sketched out above. I do not wish to sink in the morass of people who are out of their minds.

Let me end by asking the hon Rudi Heine ….

… is he suggesting that employers be given a free right to exploit workers and to expose them to inhuman conditions with impunity? Is he suggesting that laws passed by this Parliament be treated with disdain?

The inspectors of the department do not see their role as that of policing employers. In the first instance, they counsel employees and employers to understand their mutual obligations. The aim is to promote sound labour relations and workplace stability. However, where employers remain recalcitrant and undermine the laws of the state, my department shall not hesitate to crack down on those who want to create chaos in the workplace. [Applause.] Ukuba ngaba ke iindlebe ezi zabo abazivuli kakuhle, baya kuqhuba ngale ndlela baqhuba ngayo, njengokuba ndimana ndibeva behewula bekhwaza. Ndiyabavela ke, ndiyabasizela kakhulu.

Ukuba belikho ithuba - ndibhekisa kuMnu Ramodike - bendiya kukhe - uyabuza ukuba ndithini na kuba akasiva isiXhosa … [Kwahlekwa.] Unempandla kodwa isiXhosa akasiva, ngoku iyamtya into yokuba ndibe ndithetha ulwimi lwasekhaya, iyamhlafuna apha entloko unkabi - bendiza kukhe ndinabe, kodwa ke ngethemba lokuba ulilungu lala komiti yesebe lolawulo, siya kuzinika ithuba lokuba siyazise ikomiti ukuba sindawoni na malunga neQonga leeNgxoxo ngezemiSebenzi (Jobs Summit) ukwenzela ukuba sihambe kunye, sincedisane ngalo mba kunjalo nje.

Ndiyalibulela kakhulu ilungu elihloniphekileyo uLishivha, elikhankanye indima yoKhuseleko nokuKhathalelwa kweMpilo eMsebenzini. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)

[If they do not open their ears properly then they are going to conduct themselves in the manner they do, by way of interjecting and the loud shouts that I can hear. I sympathise with them. I pity them very much. If there was time available - I am referring to Mr Ramodike - would have … he is asking what I am saying because he does not understand isiXhosa … [Laughter.] The fact that I am delivering my speech in my home language is bugging him, it is working on the mind of the `fellow’ - I would have elaborated but he is, hopefully, a member of the portfolio committee, we are going to afford ourselves an opportunity of informing it about where we are with regard to the Jobs Summit so that we move on together and we help one another about this issue.

I truly thank the hon member, Lishivha, who mentioned occupational safety and health care in the workplace.]

Cabinet has agreed that we need to integrate and co-ordinate our policies, because as it stands now the occupational health and safety issues are all over. There is fragmentation of occupational health and safety. That is why three departments have been tasked to look into this matter, that is the Department of Health, the Department of Minerals and Energy and the Department of Labour. Of course we have to consult a number of other departments, such as the Departments of Transport and of Environmental Affairs, etc. Ndiyawabulela kakhulu ke amalungu ngale nkxaso ingakanana. Andinqweneli kuphinda ndiwagcina apha ithuba elide. [Kwaqhwatywa.] [I truly thank the members for such great support. I do not wish, again, to keep members here for a long time. [Applause.]]

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, I do not like to introduce my presence by shouting ``order’’, but you leave me no alternative.

Debate concluded.

        HOW DEVELOPING COUNTRIES COPE WITH NATURAL DISASTERS

                      (Subject for Discussion)

The SPEAKER: Hon members, a few weeks ago the House received reports on the impact of the floods and other disasters on communities in all our constituencies. Last week I had the opportunity to be briefed on and to see some of the flood damage in our neighbouring country of Mozambique.   On behalf of the SADC Parliamentary Forum, the Speaker of the Parliament of Zimbabwe and I, accompanied by the parliamentary counsellor to the President, met with President Chissano and conveyed condolences at the loss of life and pledged support and solidarity to the people of Mozambique. We were informed that 900 000 Mozambicans had been displaced and nearly 2 million people had been affected by the floods. We overflew vast expanses of the country under water, some areas as wide as 35 kilometres. Many rooftops bore pitiful bundles of families’ remaining possessions. Many more homes were totally submerged or destroyed. Over 70 000 cattle had been killed. Each night, we South Africans have seen the devastation and the courage and resolve of the people of Mozambique. What we have perhaps not appreciated fully is how the entire SADC region has responded - each country providing whatever support they could from the very meagre resources they have and each country trying to assist their neighbours.

The South African helicopters were not the only regional planes in the area. All the helicopters in Lesotho and Malawi have also been involved. Botswana sent one million litres of fuel and Zimbabwe sent 159 tons of seed.

What has happened in our country in the Northern Province, Mpumalanga, KwaZulu-Natal, the Eastern Cape and the Western Cape, and throughout the SADC region, provides the context of the debate that is to follow. Hundreds of millions of dollars are needed for relief, and billions more for repairs. Much more is required for reconstruction and sustained development to take place. The international community needs to recognise that development aid cannot be cut down, because there is a need for reconstruction and relief. But we ourselves need also to recognise that there is a growing scale of natural disasters which particularly impact on developing countries.

So, as we look at relief, we need also to consider preventive measures. We believe - and I would want to commend to this Parliament - that as a Parliament, we need to start looking at the need to install preventive measures within our own country, in our region and in developed countries globally. That is the challenge we face and which affects us all.

With that introduction, hon members, I would wish that we now proceed with this debate on the motion that I requested should be placed before the House. And I do not have a speakers’ list! [Interjections.] I call upon the hon G Borman.

Mrs G M BORMAN: Madam Speaker, hon members, the recent disasters have shown that the Government’s policy in this area is just that: a national disaster. [Interjections.]

The DP would first like to express its sincere sympathy with the victims of the disasters that have recently ravaged our subcontinent. We have watched, night by night, on TV the loss of human life, homes, shelter and livestock as a result of tornadoes, fires and floods. We have been stunned and saddened by the terrible human suffering involved. The DP salutes all those who worked so tirelessly under very difficult circumstances to rescue and bring relief to those affected.

However, we have become increasingly aware of the tragic lack of co- ordination between all the relevant role-players and the inexcusable absence of a proper disaster management policy. Let me sketch this Government’s bumbling and fumbling which has gone on since 1994. [Interjections.] In 1994, after the floods on the Cape Flats, Cabinet decided to assess South Africa’s disaster management. What did they do? They reviewed the structures. A year down the line, Cabinet made the brilliant recommendation that a formal structure for disaster management be established. Another year later, in February 1996, the national disaster management committee was established to act as a co-ordinating and managing body. In March 1997, a great step forward was taken. The Cabinet formed an interministerial committee for disaster management and included Ministers from 13 portfolios. It was necessary. This committee proved the truth of the old saying that a committee is a group of people who, individually, can do nothing but collectively can meet together and decide that nothing can be done.

Eventually, in February 1998, a Green Paper was published for comment. Ten months later the Cabinet approved a White Paper and in January this year the Disaster Management Bill was finally published for public comment. Goodness knows how many disasters have come and gone whilst the Government talks to itself about disaster management. In the very month that this collection of words was being bandied around, the Constantiaberg and Simon’s Town fires were raging. Once more, Rome burnt whilst Nero fiddled. How long does it take this Government to formulate policy and do something? [Interjections.]

The Portfolio Committee on Provincial and Local Government deemed it to be an urgent matter. So what did it do? Hon members have guessed it: it set up a special committee! This committee met once in February. It was a shambles that was arranged at the last minute. There was no quorum and the meeting had to be abandoned. [Interjections.] We are still waiting for the next one. That is how serious this Parliament is about the problem.

The DP believes that the present policy is inadequate. The affected party should not be dependent on ad hoc decisions reflecting the grace and favour of either the President or the Minister. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order! Are you rising on a point of order?

Mr Y I CARRIM: Madam Speaker, is the hon member prepared to take a question?

Mrs G M BORMAN: No! I will take one at the end if I have time.

I now want to focus on our priorities as developing countries. The Mail & Gaurdian, dated 24 to 30 March, featured a letter from Norman Tshumbi of Windhoek, in which he responds to a question under the heading ``Well done, South Africa: Where are the other countries that possess helicoptors?’’ and I quote:

In defence of Namibia, I have to inform you that as a poor country our airforce only had two helicoptors. These were sent to the Democratic Republic of Congo to shoot at some people. We were subsequently informed that they crashed mid-air in bad weather, killing everyone in the helicopter. So we are unable to send any to Mozambique.

I continue with what Mr Tshumbi said:

While the priorities of the UN’s High Commission for Refugees leaves much to be desired, we need to look at our government’s priorities. Had we not committed us to the war in Congo, Namibia could have assisted with plucking people from tree tops and Zimbabwe could have had more money for petrol.

This, sadly, reflects the microcosm of Africa as a whole. We have no trouble mobilising our limited resources to kill and we have nothing left with which to save lives. From the research that we have done, we have found that … [Interjections.]

The MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: That is all you know: research!

Mrs G M BORMAN: … responsible governments around the world - including Bangladesh, for example - had clear policy guidelines for disaster management with four essential components: prevention, preparedness, response and recovery.

In view of all this, the DP calls on the Government to instruct the SANDF to establish a disaster management task force whose responsibility it would be to co-ordinate all the resources available - military, business, the private sector, NGOs and churches - with a clear line of command and communication. We must avoid at all cost the muddle over permission to land at Hoedspruit whilst people are dying, as happened recently.

The DP believes that South Africa should take the lead in SADC over this matter. We have the best resources and personnel and should be seeking to co-ordinate the countries of the region in responding to disasters. [Time expired.]

Rev K M ZONDI: Madam Speaker, hon members, I think this debate warrants quite a modicum of respect in the sense that disasters and natural disasters affect the poorest of the poor.

HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

Rev K M ZONDI: In fact, this is not a matter which should be used as a party-political football. [Applause.]

I think the recent floods in countries such as Mozambique and Madagascar have once again highlighted the shocking lack of capacity on the part of these countries to deal effectively with natural disasters. Both Mozambique and Madagascar are among the poorest countries in the developing world.

Developing countries are, by definition, operating on shoe-string budgets where priorities are set in a manner that is designed to meet only the bare necessities of life, such as food, medication and shelter. Quite clearly the state of readiness to deal with natural disasters inevitably becomes a standard and a luxury poor countries cannot attain and afford at will.

People living in developing countries thus bear the brunt of their countries’ inability to protect them in the wake of natural disasters. This means that the overwhelming majority of the world’s population will continue to suffer the devastating effects of natural disasters with very little protection.

According to figures released by the UN World Development Report, it is estimated that by the year 2025, 80% of the world’s population will live in developing countries, and half of this figure represents people who will be in areas highly vulnerable to flooding and storms. Developing countries become entirely dependent on the assistance that the international community can give. The trouble is that it takes time for the international community to respond in a co-ordinated fashion to cries of dire need for help.

The aftermath of disasters imposes very heavy and negative consequences on developing countries. Their economies suffer such setbacks that they regress by decades. It is therefore imperative that the world community functions even more as a unit and begins to deal with natural disasters in a properly co-ordinated and proactive fashion. There has to be a joining together of hands between the developed and developing nations, aimed at helping the establishment of local capacities in developing nations to enable them to begin to cope with these disasters and their aftermath.

The developing countries will have to achieve this by putting in place co- ordinated and preventative measures, measures that are capable of interpreting data and trends in such phenomena as global warming. For example, we are told that half the world’s population lives in coastal zones. This translates to 10 million people who are at constant risk of experiencing flooding. Now, the role of the international community is to establish proactive and reactive measures that are going to enhance its capacity to act with swiftness in the wake of pending and striking disasters.

The interdependence between developing and developed countries necessitated and brought about by globalisation compels the international community to act as one, as none of the developing countries can actually be expected to deal with these disasters on their own. For example, we are informed that, owing to natural disasters, 60% of the world’s population will be living in zones potentially infested with malaria by the year 2100, and that there could be an estimated extra 50 million to 80 million cases of malaria and 3,5 million more cases of river-blindness.

All these figures indicate, in a small way, however remote it might seem at the present moment, that these natural disasters confront very poor nations which are ill-equipped, not because of mistakes they are making, but merely because these are the conditions in which they find themselves. In many cases, they are not responsible for them. We call for co-ordinated action on the part of the international community. [Applause.]

Mev M E OLCKERS: Mevrou die Speaker, die hantering van natuurlike rampe deur ontwikkelende lande - trouens deur enige land ter wêreld - sal altyd afhang van die intensiteit, omvang en ligging van sodanige ramp. Omdat hierdie faktore nie vooraf bepaal kan word nie, vereis die hantering van so ‘n situasie deurlopende gereedheid. Die verwysing na ontwikkelende lande impliseer lande met klein ekonomieë en gebrekkige hulpmiddels, wat dit uiters moeilik maak om onverwagse situasies te hanteer.

Die onlangse ramp in Mosambiek en die noordelike provinsies van die Republiek van Suid-Afrika, asook in die aangrensende gebied van KwaZulu- Natal, het nie net die lewe van talle mense geëis nie, maar in groot gebiede is die infrastruktuur vernietig, wat die slagaar van hul ekonomiese ontwikkeling is. Skade aan hoëpotensiaal-landbougrond sal net herstel kan word teen geweldige koste. Voeg daaraan toe die verlies aan behuising en die uitbreek van siekte-epidemies, asook die koste wat die herstel van eersgenoemde en bekamping van laasgenoemde meebring, en dan besef ‘n mens die ontsaglike skade wat natuurrampe kan veroorsaak.

Die hantering van natuurrampe en die nagevolge daarvan binne die grense van ‘n bepaalde staat bly daardie regering se verantwoordelikheid. Die state wat deel uitmaak van die Suider-Afrikaanse Ontwikkelingsgemeenskap het nie die ekonomiese mag of hulpmiddels om so ‘n situasie op ‘n ad hoc-grondslag te hanteer nie. Om dié situasie te hanteer, is dit noodsaaklik dat elkeen van hierdie lande ‘n permanente regeringsramptrust skep waartoe die staat jaarliks bydra en waarheen skenkings vir hierdie doel gekanaliseer kan word.

Tweedens moet in ag geneem word dat ‘n ramp sulke afmetings kan aanneem dat buurstate eintlik ‘n morele verpligting het om hulp te verleen, maar dit nie altyd kan bekostig nie. Daarom, glo ek, moet baie ernstig oorweeg word om ‘n interstaatlike rampfonds te stig waartoe alle deelnemende state volgens ‘n vaste formule ‘n verpligte jaarlikse bydrae lewer. So ‘n fonds moet bestuur word volgens ‘n ooreenkoms of akte van aanwending sodat misbruike sover moontlik vermy kan word. Wanneer rampe menslike nood en lyding veroorsaak, moet die vraag nie wees of hulp verleen gaan word nie, maar eerder hoe vinnig hulp verleen kan word en wat die omvang daarvan gaan wees.

Wat Suid-Afrika betref, hoop ek van harte dat wetgewing oor rampbestuur opgestel kan word wat elke moontlikheid sal uitskakel dat die lyding van mense gebruik word om politieke punte aan te teken. Dit is dringend noodsaaklik dat ‘n beleid geformuleer word wat rampsituasies gebalanseerd sal evalueer. Voedselproduksie is net so belangrik soos water en elektrisiteit, en andersom.

Miskien kan die grootste sukses teen rampe in Suider-Afrika bereik word deur groter prioriteit te gee aan ordelike ruimtelike beplanning. Die man wat sy huis teen ‘n hoogte bou se kanse op oorlewing is groter as dié van ‘n man wat sy huis op die walle van ‘n rivier bou.

Die VN beraam dat 80% van die wêreldbevolking in 2025 in ontwikkelende lande sal woon. Gegewe die veranderende, ekstreme weersomstandighede, waar die een orkaan elke 50 jaar nou een elke 10 jaar geword het, is die stigting van so ‘n interstaatlike rampfonds noodsaaklik. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mrs M E OLCKERS: Madam Speaker, the managing of natural disasters by developing countries - in fact by any country in the world - will always depend on the intensity, extent and location of such a disaster. Because these factors cannot be predetermined, the managing of such a situation requires continuous preparedness. The reference to developing countries implies countries with small economies and insufficient resources, which makes it extremely difficult to manage unexpected situations.

The recent disaster in Mozambique and the northern provinces of the Republic of South Africa, as well as in the neighbouring area of KwaZulu- Natal, not only claimed the lives of many people, but destroyed the infrastructure in large areas, which is the main artery of their economic development. Damage to high-potential agricultural land will only be made good at enormous expense. Add to that the loss of housing and the outbreak of epidemics, as well as the costs which the reparation of the firstmentioned and the control of the lastmentioned will bring about, and one realises the enormous damage which natural disasters can cause.

The managing of natural disasters and their consequences within the borders of a specific state remain the responsibility of that government. The states which comprise the Southern African Development Community do not have the economic power or the resources to deal with such a situation on an ad hoc basis. To deal with a situation such as this, it is imperative that every one of these countries creates a permanent government disaster trust to which the state contributes annually and to which donations could be channelled for this purpose.

Secondly, one should take into consideration the fact that a disaster could assume such alarming proportions that neighbouring countries actually have a moral obligation to offer help, but cannot always afford to do so. For this reason I believe that we should very seriously consider establishing an interstate disaster fund to which every participating state would make a compulsory annual contribution according to a fixed formula. Such a fund should be managed according to an agreement or deed of application so that misuse can be avoided as far as possible. When disasters cause human need and suffering the question should not be asked whether help should be given, but rather how quickly that help can be given and what the extent of that help is going to be.

As far as South Africa is concerned, I sincerely hope that legislation on disaster management can be drafted which will eliminate every possibility of using the suffering of people to score political points. It is vital that a policy should be formulated which can evaluate disaster situations in a balanced manner. Food production is just as important as water and electricity and vice versa.

Perhaps the greatest success against disasters in Southern Africa can be achieved by giving even greater priority to orderly spatial planning. The man who builds his house on a hill has a better chance of survival than the man who builds his house on the banks of a river.

The UN estimates that in 2025 80% of the world population will be living in developing countries. Given the changing, extreme weather conditions, where one hurricane every 50 years has now become one every 10 years, the establishment of such an interstate disaster fund is imperative. [Time expired.]]

Mr B M SOLO: Madam Speaker, I sometimes wonder if people understand what is going on and what their responsibilities are. Let me start with the last speaker. She was probably just giving her own opinion because she does not actually sit in my portfolio committee, which deals with these matters. Someone else from the NP is there and I expected that person at least to participate in this debate. Maybe they do not follow what is happening there or they do not understand.

I just want to clarify some issues that were mentioned by the speaker from the DP, the hon member Gloria Borman, who actually serves on the subcommittee that deals with disaster management. I am really surprised by her utterances and I can only wonder if people are really honest about their responsibilities, because these matters are dealt with at that level.

In terms of what she was saying here, it appears as if she was not part of that committee and has never been to that committee. [Interjections.] She knows very well that there is a White Paper, but of course, this morning she again alluded to the fact that she is not aware of an existing White Paper. [Interjections.] Also, this morning we were informed that there is legislation in the pipeline to deal particularly with disaster management, but again she stands here denying any knowledge of such legislation. [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: She is a disaster herself.

Mr B M SOLO: That is correct. We have disasters within ourselves sometimes, particularly in the case of the DP. [Interjections.] I am really disappointed, because I did not expect that. The hon Gloria Borman goes on to say … [Laughter.]

Ngifuna ukuqinisekisa ukuthi amalungu alalele nokuthi ayezwa uma ngikhuluma ngoba awalaleli uma sisemihlanganweni. [I want to ensure that hon members are listening and that they have heard what I have just said because they do not listen at meetings.]

Sometimes it is as if we are wasting our time, and I want to request members please to participate in the deliberations in this Parliament, because that is what we are here for. I say this because although members are always in these portfolio committee meetings, they keep quiet throughout, but then they come and stand here and stage a grand show. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

I also want to remind this House of the fact that Parliament, at the beginning of this year, released about 17 MPs to go to the various areas that had been affected by disasters. This shows how serious this Parliament is about that general situation. This morning, again, we were briefed by the department on all its activities and efforts to deal with this problem.

Yes, it is true that the subcommittee sat some time in February - that is correct. But how many members in that meeting were from the opposition parties?

An HON MEMBER: What year was that?

Mr B M SOLO: I am talking about this year, as that hon member knows very well. I should probably start a class for that member and lecture him in order to enable him to understand these things.

Again, we spent about four hours with the department. The department informed us of all its efforts to ensure that it deals with this matter of disaster management. I want to put it to members that we are serious and that this debate is very important. We are going to deal with this matter in a way that we deem fit. We are not going to be advised by them, because it is clear that they live in a different country. Of course, they know their history, and I do not have to repeat it. They must note that people are dying and that the people who are actually dying are the poorest of the poor, not because of their own doing, but because of their history and the political history of this country.

The importance of this debate should not be undermined. The question of natural disasters is very critical to developing countries. Therefore the debate today should be welcomed by all South Africans and the world community as a whole, except probably the DP whose members do not see themselves as South Africans. It is also equally important to note the seriousness of our Government in dealing with this matter and in trying to ensure the rescue, protection and security of all communities against any form of disaster.

Before addressing issues raised in the debate, I want to extend our deep sorrow and regret, on behalf of all South Africans, at the loss of hundreds of lives and the destruction of property and the environment as a result of the recent floods caused by cyclonic weather conditions. I further want to express our solidarity with those poor countries that have been detrimentally been affected and express our sympathy to the bereaved and flood-affected territories, not only in South Africa, but also throughout the SADC region. Unfortunately, due to time constraints, I will not be able to deal with all matters that I would have liked to deal with. But I will, in an economic way, restrict myself to those matters that need emphasis.

While all countries are affected by natural disasters, the impact on developing countries is greater. The majority of the world population inhabit these countries, amongst which are the poorest of the poor accounting for 90% of those killed annually in such events. Development programmes are set back and a greater strain … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr M N RAMODIKE: Madam Speaker … Interjections.]

Mrs M E OLCKERS: Madam Speaker, on a point of information … [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order! No, hon member, you cannot do that.

Mrs M E OLCKERS: I beg your pardon, Madam Speaker, it is a point of order.

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, could you start with your point of order, please.

Mrs M E OLCKERS: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: I would just like to inform you that our member … [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order! No, hon member, I have a lot of experience with members sneaking in other matters behind points of order.

Mrs M E OLCKERS: Madam Speaker, on a straightforward point of order: I suppose the previous hon speaker was referring to our member Mr Frik van Deventer, who is in hospital having tests. I think it is petty politics to say that he is not here. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, I am sorry, but that is not a point of order. I take note of the information, but you should convey it to the member concerned. Would the next speaker please proceed.

Mr M N RAMODIKE: Madam Speaker, the UDM wishes to thank you for initiating this debate in this hon House. It is a very important debate and it is in the best interests of the nation. The underlying point here is what other developing countries are doing in order to cope with unforeseen natural disasters.

It can never be a question of pointing a finger at one another or at the Government. Disasters are forces of nature which are unpredictable. They are acts of the omnipresent and the omnipotent which even prophets and scientists are finding very difficult to comprehend.

I had the privilege of visiting many countries abroad which have been hit by natural disasters such as earthquakes, floods and famine. I also had the privilege, a week ago, of accompanying the Portfolio Committee on Public Works during a visit to the flood-damaged areas in the Northern Province. I speak here with first-hand information and knowledge of the severe amount of damage I have seen to road infrastructure and other damaged property.

It was indeed very unfortunate that only two political parties took the trouble to visit the flood-damaged areas in the Northern Province. An overview contained in the World Disaster Report of 1999 produced by the International Committee of the Red Cross and the SA Red Cross Society, many disasters could be mitigated if more cash was spent on disaster preparedness.

A recent cost benefit analysis suggested that US $3,15 billion invested in China over the past 40 years in order to control floods averted potential losses of US $12 billion. [Interjections.]

Mrs M L NGWENYA: Madam Speaker, can the hon member take a question?

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, are you prepared to take a question?

Mr M N RAMODIKE: No, Madam Speaker, that will waste my time. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, will you please take your seat. Hon members, please do not rise on points of order when you know that they are not points of order.

Mr M N RAMODIKE: Madam Speaker, confronted by continuing humanitarian needs in South Africa’s neighbouring countries, and constraints in our budget and mistakes of past poor planning and performance, South Africa should now join others in the Humanitarian Charter on Minimum Standards and Requirements in Disaster Response. It is frightening to know that half of the world’s population live in coastal zones, and indeed that over 10 million of these people are, according to experts, at constant risk of being flooded.

The rate indicators that are referred to by the United Nations, and which estimate that people living in developing countries are highly vulnerable to flooding and storms, should be taken seriously. Flooding was experienced in Mpumalanga, the North West, KwaZulu-Natal, Gauteng, the Northern Province and the Eastern Cape and also in Mozambique and Madagascar. These areas were hit by a cyclone which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of people.

Further indicators point to sea-level rises. Tides are predicted to rise by 44 cm by the year 2080, which may result in millions of people being flooded. The UDM will support any endeavour and programme of a development strategy aimed at natural disaster mitigation. We call on the Government to involve all stakeholders in building international links, which will promote local and international disaster preparedness, with the aim of being proactive, rather than the reactive research we have at present. [Applause.]

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Madam Speaker, a document detailing strategy for managing crises states: Africa’s crises are in large part due to the chronic state of underdevelopment in the region. What is more, disasters and underdevelopment create a vicious cycle that is difficult to break. It is understood that developing countries are far more susceptible to crises threats than are developed countries.

The same document states that the sub-Saharan region has recently experienced the greatest frequency and most serious effects of disasters, more than any other region in the world. The document quotes the Africa regional director of the WHO who said that, out of a population of more than 744 million, 734 million lived in countries that were considered to be disaster prone.

The question we need to ask is: What are the reasons or factors that give rise to these crises? The reference mentions that in spite of the frequency of natural disasters, very few deaths are caused by these crises. They do, however, have a huge impact on homelessness or displacement. Epidemic crises have, however, resulted in substantially higher levels of mortality in the 1970s and 1980s.

Since the 1990s, conflict-related crises represent the most serious threat to development initiatives. Millions of lives have been lost in the last decade through conflict. In other words, the crises in Africa are varyingly held together by certain causal factors.

The question is not how developing countries cope with natural disasters. The simple fact is that Africa cannot afford to face any crises of whatever shape or form. At the opening of the regional meeting on natural disasters in Nairobi in 1999, the Kenyan Minister of State in his opening address made the following comments:

Africa cannot afford natural disasters because they tend to exacerbate poverty conditions. A single natural disaster in an African country may reverse fundamentally the gains made on the development front and the recovery from the same would disrupt national development plans and public budgets or exhaust scarce national resources.

The sad state of affairs about the African continent’s response to natural disasters, according to the Financial Times of 12 March 2000, is that nothing is being done to stop a recurrence of floods and other potential natural disasters in future years. The sooner we learn that the world views the problems of Africa as those that Africans will have to call with themselves, the more Africans will have call to account those governments who are responsible for bad governance. The development of Africa will not be primarily driven by the good intentions of developed countries, but must be driven by the moral imperative of respect for institutional democracy and good government. [Applause.]

Genl C L VILJOEN: Daar is ‘n ou beginsel wat lui dat as ‘n mens se buurman se huis brand, jy nie net staan en kyk nie; jy spring in en jy help. Dit is die kernbeginsel as ons kom by die kwessie van hoe ons rampe kan bekamp. Dit gaan dus om medemenslikheid; om te keer dat mense skade ly, en ás hulle skade ly, om hulle so vinnig moontlik te help.

Al is ‘n ontwikkelende land arm of al het hy te min bronne, moet so ‘n land homself help. So ‘n land moet ook bereid wees om ander te help. Hoe word dit gedoen? ‘n Ontwikkelende land kan arm wees, maar hy kan ‘n goeie regering hê, ‘n regering wat met wysheid regeer. Ek gaan nou vir agb lede vier belangrike stappe noem wat so ‘n regering kan toepas om hierdie soort bekamping te vermag. Eerstens moet so ‘n regering voorkomende stappe en beplanning doen. ‘n Goeie regering laat nie toe dat huise in laagwatergebiede gebou word waar dit deur vloedwater weggeneem kan word nie. Ons weet mos nou waar die afgelope oorstromings was, en ons weet dit het ‘n besonder hoë vlak bereik. Ons weet dus nou waar om huise te bou en waar om hulle nie te bou nie.

‘n Goeie regering laat nie plakkerskampe of hoëdigtheid-informele behuising toe waarin daar nie behoorlike toegangspaaie is wat die bestryding van brande moeilik maak nie. ‘n Goeie regering laat nie ‘n swak struktuur toe in gebiede waarin daar aardbewings voorkom nie. Goeie regering is dus een van die eerste beginsels, en enige land - ontwikkeld of onontwikkeld - kan goeie regering hê.

Tweedens sorg ‘n goeie regering ook vir gebeurlikheidsplanne op sowel nasionale as plaaslike vlak. Onlangs toe ons die brande hier in die Wes- Kaap gehad het, was ek verstom toe ek my in antwoord op ‘n oproep van ‘n radiostasie as vrywilliger aangemeld het om te gaan help vuurslaan. Daar was baie vrywilligers wat hulle aangemeld het, maar eerstens was die strukture nie gereed om vrywilligers te hanteer nie en tweedens was die vrywilligers ook nie almal opgelei om te doen wat van hulle verwag is nie.

Derdens sorg ‘n goeie regering dat daar in dié verband vir internasionale en streeksamewerking voorsiening gemaak word. Ons het die saak in hierdie Huis bespreek, en ek het my toespraak afgesluit met ‘n beroep op die Regering vir ‘n besigheidsplan oor hoe die huidige oorstromings gehanteer gaan word.

Ons weet mos as dit in die Limpopo reën, gaan die water af na Xai-Xai toe in Mosambiek. Was daar skakeling en was daar genoegsame samewerking in dié verband? Was die helikopterbrandstof vooruitgeplaas, en is daar voorsiening gemaak om mense betyds uit die laagliggende gebiede van Mosambiek te verwyder?

Laastens moet ‘n goeie regering sorg dat die herskedulering van regeringsprioriteite onmiddellik plaasvind sover dit besteding betref ná so ‘n ramp ‘n land getref het. ‘n Goeie regering wat wakker regeer, al is die land arm, kan baie doen om rampe te bekamp. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Gen C L VILJOEN: There is an old principle which has it that if one’s neighbour’s house is burning, one does not merely stand and watch; one jumps in and renders assistance. This is the core principle when we come to the issue of how one can combat disasters. The issue is therefore common humanity; to prevent people suffering damage, and if they do suffer damage, to help them as quickly as possible.

Even if a developing country is poor or has too few resources, such a country must still help itself. Such a country must also be prepared to help others. How is this done? A developing country can be poor, but it can have a good government, a government which governs with wisdom. I am now going to mention for hon members four important steps which such a government can implement to achieve this sort of action.

Firstly, such a government must take preventative steps and do planning. A good government does not allow houses to be built in low-water areas where they can be carried away by flood waters. We now know where the recent floodings took place and we know that they reached a particularly high level. We therefore now know where to build houses and where not to build them.

A good government does not allow squatter camps or high-density informal housing where there are not adequate access roads which can hamper the fighting of fires. A good government does not allow a weak structure in areas in which earthquakes occur. A good government is therefore one of the first principles, and any country - developed or undeveloped - can have a good government.

Secondly, a good government takes care of contingency plans at national as well as local level. When we had the recent fires here in the Western Cape, I was astounded when, in response to an appeal from a radio station, I reported as a volunteer to help fight the fires. There were many volunteers who reported, but firstly the structures were not prepared to deal with volunteers and secondly the volunteers were not all trained to do what was expected of them.

Thirdly, a good government sees to it that in this regard provision is made for international and regional co-operation. We have discussed this matter in the House, and I concluded my speech with an appeal to the Government for a business plan on how the current floodings are going to be dealt with.

Surely we know that if it rains in the Limpopo, the water travels down to Xai-Xai in Mozambique. Was there liaison and was there sufficient co- operation in this regard? Was the helicopter fuel placed on site, and was provision made timeously to remove people from the low-lying areas of Mozambique?

Finally, after such a disaster has hit a country a good government must ensure that the rescheduling of government priorities as far as spending is concerned takes place immediately. A good government which governs in an alert manner, can do a lot to combat disasters, even if the country is poor. [Interjections.]]

Mr G E BALOI: Madam Speaker, according to the World Disaster Report of 1999, there were more natural disasters in 1998 than in any year on record. Natural disasters such as earthquakes, floods, forest fires and hurricanes are increasingly threatening the world. The climatic changes are real and every week new evidence emerges indicating the increase of natural disasters. In the last decade, on average, natural disasters killed 128 000 people and affected another 136 million. However, natural catastrophes still provoke a knee-jerk response from donor agencies, and more solutions are still needed.

Fires have occurred in South Africa too. It is estimated that the fires that devastated the Western Cape cost the country more than R3 billion in damage. The economic impact of the recent flooding in the northern part of our country was devastating and the flood damage is estimated at R1,7 billion. Nearly R880 million of this is required just to repair roads, bridges and drainage.

However, rebuilding is not just about houses, roads and infrastructures, as metres of sand from river floods cover agricultural land. Most commercial farmers in the Northern Province lost about 50% of their crops destined for export. Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Madagascar and Botswana were also devastated by the recent floods.

El Niño also had an effect and caused 21 000 lives to be lost in 1998. We are concerned that the Government of developing countries lack resources to invest in robust infrastructure and prevention … [Interjections.] [Time expired.]

Dr A I VAN NIEKERK: Madam Speaker, I would like to be positive in this debate. I do not think that natural disasters are something that we would like to deal with, but it is a phenomenon which we have been experiencing lately that natural disasters seem to be increasing in the world in terms of their frequency. Millions of people, especially the poor, are usually the hardest hit when a flood or a drought or an earthquake occurs. These disasters can never be predicted with precision and no government has a fool-proof plan to contain disasters.

Die sleutel tot die sinvolle hantering van natuurrampe lê in die vermoë van ‘n land se staatsdiens en sy private sektor om vinnig te reageer en die gevolge te beperk sodra ‘n ramp voorkom.

Hiervoor is ‘n klein kernkomitee nodig wat die nodige gesag dra en wat die hulpbronne van die staat en die private sektor vinnig en effektief kan mobiliseer om hulp te verleen en die verlening daarvan te moniteer. Hierdie liggaam moet ook die tydperke tussen rampe gebruik om voorsorgmaatreëls in plek te kry om die effek van rampe, as dit sou voorkom, tot die minimum te beperk.

Dit is so dat die grootste lewensverlies as gevolg van rampe plaasvind binne die eerste uur ná ‘n ramp. Dit is dan wanneer doelgerigte, vinnige optrede noodsaaklik is. Die skep van skakelpunte tussen departemente en tussen regerings is dus noodsaaklik vir sinvolle rampbeheer.

Die optrede van instansies soos die Weermag en private sektor gedurende die afgelope rampe in Suid-Afrika was lofwaardig. Dit wys net wat goeie organisasie kan doen en waar die uitdaging vir die suksesvolle hantering van rampe lê. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The key to dealing meaningfully with natural disasters lies in the ability of a country’s public service and its private sector to react quickly and to limit the effects of a disaster as soon as it occurs.

For this purpose a small core committee is required which has the necessary authority and which can quickly and effectively mobilise the resources of the state and the private sector to provide aid and to monitor the rendering thereof. This body should also make use of the periods between disasters to establish preventative measures in order to limit the effect of disasters, if they do occur, to the minimum.

It is a fact that the greatest loss of life owing to disasters occurs within the first hour after the disaster. It is then that purposeful and speedy action is necessary. The creation of links between departments and governments is therefore essential for meaningful disaster control. The actions of institutions such as the Defence Force and the private sector during the recent disasters in South Africa were commendable. This just goes to show what good organisation can do and where the challenge lies for dealing successfully with disasters. [Interjections.]]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, I thank you for introducing this very important debate. The spate of multiple disasters in developing countries has placed a strain on the international relief system. Developing countries are not facilitated to respond proactively to disasters, therefore this worsens the plight. The immense and simultaneous demand for assistance from the various international relief institutions, frustrates the system and weakens timeous response, therefore natural disaster mitigation must be promoted at international and local level.

The key to effective international disaster management is efficient administration and co-ordination. The objectives and strategies of an international disaster committee must be long term so that response can be executed with unconditional preparedness. When spearheading and co- ordinating an international response to disaster, attention must be focused on the role of NGOs, the free-market charity system and the fact that in most Western countries soldiers are trained for short-term military objectives, but not equipped with appropriate skills to handle disasters, therefore every assistance must be given wherever possible to the affected areas.

It is no use standing here and criticising and pointing fingers. Let us get together and find a solution to the problem. [Applause.]

Mr C NQAKULA: Madam Speaker, today’s debate is one of a number of initiatives that were mounted at different times in the recent past to discuss the formulation of measures to deal effectively with natural disasters in developing countries. The floods in Mozambique provided a platform for such discussions. One of the noteworthy events following the floods in Mozambique was the holding by SADC in Maputo on 14 March of an extraordinary summit of its heads of state and government.

The objective of the summit was to review the impact of the floods on SADC countries, particularly Mozambique. The heads of state appreciated the necessity to establish mechanisms that would enable developing countries to respond effectively and timeously to disasters. The approach of the ANC on these questions - and also in respect of political conflict that lead to violence - is that the adoption of preventative strategies is much more effective. Reaction after the fact is always more expensive.

In this context, Government published a White Paper in which a new approach is mooted regarding disaster management. The approach leans more heavily on the necessity to reduce the probability and severity of disaster occurrences, as opposed to reliance only on emergency rescue services. Given their nature and character, developing countries need good systems in place to respond to natural disasters. This is so because disasters impact directly on the economy and social wellbeing of countries where they occur.

I was recently part of a group - as the Speaker said - of SADC Parliamentary Forum members on a visit to Mozambique. The scenes of devastation that we saw were just as she described them. There are areas where it may not even be possible to achieve total reconstruction as the country very slowly begins to pick up the pieces, whereas in our country, in provinces like the Northern Province, Mpumalanga, Gauteng and the Eastern Cape, to mention but a few, it looks as if the speed to recovery is faster than in Mozambique.

The fact is that there has been a tremendous loss of lives of loved ones and possessions. There was a news item the other day of the 50 shacks that were destroyed by fire in an informal settlement near Langa. One of those who lost their possessions in the disaster spoke about the R400 he had saved in the shack. If the story of that amount of money was told, I am certain that we would learn about the struggle by the person to raise and save it. It may even have been his only savings which took him years to put together. That is the tragedy of disasters. That is why it is better to prevent them from happening or to minimise their impact when they do happen.

When disasters hit, poor people suffer the most. It should be remembered that most of those who live in shacks are forced in that direction by poverty. The process of building the shacks is not planned, as informal settlements at times spring up through land invasion. The area where the shacks are built is often small and this leads to great density where one shack literally springs up on the doorstep of the next. The consequence often is that when one shack burns, many others in the vicinity become victims of that fire.

It is true, therefore, that while disasters may be natural, their consequences are socially determined. The effects of poor planning, as well as lack of access to suitable land, housing and so on hit poor people more. In Mozambique, one could not but note that most of the houses which survived the floods were built by the Portuguese settlers. We note with a sense of pride that our Government is according the matter of disaster management serious attention.

Government has an interministerial committee for disaster management. But the matter of disasters should be, in the first instance, a question that involves all our people. The ANC calls upon leaders and members of the opposition to consider this one matter as an issue where we should not try to score political points. Of course, it is in character, in so far as the DP is concerned, to adopt the stance that they have adopted. It reminds one of the story of the frog, which was going to cross a flooded river. It came upon a scorpion, which asked it for a ride to cross the river. The frog correctly said that it could not do that, because the scorpion would sting and kill it. But the scorpion assured the frog that it would not do it as it needed to cross the flooded river. As the story goes, right in the middle of the river, the scorpion, true to character, stung the frog. As the two were drowning, the frog said to the scorpion that it had assured it that it would not sting it. The scorpion said that it was in its character to do that sort of thing. It is in the character of the DP to be destructive all the time, even when we are discussing matters of national interest. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

In the previous debate, when we were dealing with the Labour Vote, the DP said that one must create conditions in South Africa where the rich, the bosses, must continue to make huge profits and the workers must receive meagre wages. That is where they come from. [Interjections.]

However, what we need to do is to mobilise our people in the various communities where they live to participate as a key component in disaster management. There are a number of things we should do. We should develop early warning systems, implement consistent monitoring and tracking and collect information regarding the phenomena that trigger disasters. We should acquire modern technical equipment to enable us to deal with these disasters.

The African continent expects South Africa to always be at the forefront of disaster management, particularly in the field of emergency rescue services. This places a particular obligation on us to improve our programmes and methods in this respect.

The ANC would like to see a situation where significant resources, both human and material, will be deployed to deal with disasters. We would want to argue, for instance, for the establishment of an academy to train appropriate numbers of recruits in emergency rescue operations. On qualifying, some of the recruits should be deployed at disaster management centres which the Government should establish in the disaster-prone areas of our country. Part of their function at these centres would be to educate people about disasters and train residents to survive such occurrences.

Parliament has already commended the SANDF for its role in Mozambique and within the borders of our own country as soldiers from various units fought heroically to minimise the level of devastation in the wake of the recent floods. However, it is in order, I believe, to once more say, ``Well done!’’

Of course, the DP would like to see a situation similar to that of the past where soldiers from South Africa, as part and parcel of the policies of the apartheid regime, went into these countries to kill people. The SANDF went to Mozambique to save people, as part and parcel of the policies of our Government, and the DP is unhappy about that. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: Hon members, I want to address the way in which we have addressed the subject of this debate. I acknowledge that political parties are prone to attack their opponents at every opportunity, but it is very unfortunate that some members in this House have used the entire time allocated to them to score points off each other.

We need to remind ourselves that the days when our country was isolated are over. South Africans, including members of this House, need to take their place as responsible members of the international community, recognising global interdependence and acknowledging that we are indeed the keepers of our brothers and sisters.

I want to ask all hon members, individually and collectively, to reflect on this debate, and to consider how we have contributed to solutions and whether we have contributed by the way in which we have addressed the subject matter today. I leave it to hon members to provide their own answers, having done that reflection. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

        COPING WITH NATURAL DISASTERS IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES
                         (Draft Resolution)

The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes the increasing incidence of natural disasters in the past decade, and in particular, the impact on developing countries;

(2) is concerned that the governments of developing countries lack resources to invest in robust infrastructure and prevention measures, and that major natural disasters shatter the economies of large areas of the developing world;

(3) is aware of the implications for developing countries as they try to deal with the dislocation caused by natural disasters and simultaneously endeavour to sustain development;

(4) recognises that the increased interdependence of economies, which is a consequence of globalisation, should lead to equitable and sustainable development;

(5) calls upon the United Nations and its relevant agencies to spearhead and co-ordinate an international response; and

(6) urges all parliaments to co-operate in working towards such a concerted international effort to develop local and international disaster preparedness, with the emphasis on proactive rather than reactive resourcing, and with the threefold goal of -

   (a)  improving preventative measures, disaster preparedness and
       planning at all levels;


   (b)  expediting the provision of immediate humanitarian relief to the
       affected population; and


   (c)  instituting long-term strategic planning to assist economic and
       other recovery from natural disasters.

Agreed to.

The House adjourned at 17:45. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                        MONDAY, 20 MARCH 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 16 March 2000 in terms of
     Joint Rule 160(6), classified the following Bill as a section 75
     Bill:


     (i)     South African Communications Regulatory Authority Bill [B
          14 - 2000] ((National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio
          Committee on Communications - National Assembly).

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 The following guidelines are printed in accordance with he resolution
 adopted in the House on 16 March 2000.

 GUIDELINES FOR TRIAL RUN TO QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY


 1.     CLUSTERS OF MINISTERS


     For the purposes of questions for oral reply each Minister will be
     placed in one of three clusters of Ministers. The clusters will be
     as follows:

     Cluster 1: Peace and Security
     Defence, Foreign Affairs, Safety and Security, Correctional
     Services, Justice and Constitutional Development, Intelligence.

     Cluster 2: Social Service and Governance
     Home Affairs, Education, Welfare, Housing, Public Service,
     Communications, Water Affairs and Forestry, Health, Sport and
     Recreation, Minister in the Office of the President, Provincial
     and Local Government.

     Cluster 3: Economic
     Finance, Public Works, Public Enterprises, Trade and Industry,
     Labour, Agriculture and Land Affairs, Transport, Environmental
     Affairs and Tourism, Minerals and Energy, Arts, Culture, Science
     and Technology.

     The clusters will rotate on a weekly basis so that each cluster of
     Ministers will answer questions every three weeks.


 2.     URGENT QUESTIONS TO MINISTER NOT DUE TO ANSWER


     A member who wants an urgent question to be placed on the Question
     Paper for a day on which such question would not be dealt with by
     a particular cluster, should hand in the question to the Speaker
     and clearly indicate that it is an urgent question. The request
     will be dealt with in the same way as a request for a snap debate.
     Such question must be submitted to the Speaker at the latest by
     12:00 on the Tuesday in the week preceding the week in which the
     question is to be answered. The Questions office must be informed
     by the Speaker's office of the approved questions by 12:00 the
     next day for processing and publication on Friday.


 3.     NUMBER OF QUESTIONS PER MINISTER


     No more than eight questions for oral reply shall be put to a
     Minister on any particular question day: Provided that questions
     transferred from written to oral reply and questions that had been
     standing over are not included in this number.


 4.     ORDER OF QUESTIONS BY PARTIES


     The order in which questions will be asked is the same as that
     applicable to notices of motions in the House, ie
     (1)     ANC
     (2)     DP
     (3)     IFP
     (4)     ANC
     (5)     New NP
     (6)     UDM
     (7)     ANC
     (8)     ACDP/PAC/MF
     (9)     FF/UCDP/FA/AEB/AZAPO

     A party is not obliged to ask a question and should it not do so
     the next party's question will be called.


 5.     NUMBER OF QUESTIONS PER MEMBER


     Each member may ask a maximum of two questions per question day.
     This excludes urgent questions, questions that are on the Question
     Paper because they stood over and written questions transferred
     for oral reply.


 6.     QUESTIONS NOT ANSWERED AT END OF QUESTION TIME


     The procedure relating to such questions remains the same, that is
     replies must be handed in to the Secretary for inclusion in the
     Official Report of Debates of the House. All replies to such
     questions not received by the Secretary before 12:00 on the Monday
     preceding the Tuesday on which the Internal Question Paper for a
     particular question day is published will be regarded as questions
     standing over until the next cluster session. These questions will
     be published at the end of the Question Paper. Parties may decide
     to prioritise such questions.


 7.     PARTY PRIORITY OF QUESTIONS


     Parties will need to prioritise their questions and give the
     Questions office the order in which they want their questions to
     appear on the Question Paper by 12:00 on the Wednesday in the week
     preceding the week in which they are to be answered. If parties do
     not meet this deadline the questions will be published in the
     order that they appear on the Internal Question Paper.

     The Internal Question Paper on Tuesday will contain all the
     questions as they have been received. Parties can use this
     Question Paper to prioritise their questions.

     The Internal Question Paper for Thursday will contain the
     questions in the order in which they will be dealt with on the
     next Wednesday.


 8.     TIME LIMITS FOR QUESTIONS AND REPLIES


     Not more than three minutes will be allowed for the initial answer
     unless the presiding officer is of the opinion that the answer is
     sufficiently important to necessitate an additional time which
     must be limited to two more minutes.

     Five supplementary questions of one minute each will be allowed
     arising from the reply to a question: Provided that the member who
     asked the question should be given the first opportunity to ask a
     supplementary question. The member will be entitled to express an
     opinion.

     The reply to a supplementary question is limited to two minutes,
     unless the presiding officer is of the opinion that the answer is
     sufficiently important to necessitate more time.


 9.     QUESTIONS STANDING OVER


     If a Minister or Deputy Minister requests that a question stands
     over, that question shall stand over for reply until the next
     question day on which his or her cluster replies to questions.

     If a question that is put during question time stands over because
     the Minister is not in the House to answer and the party that
     asked the question so requests, the question will be put on the
     next Question Paper for reply.


     Other questions which will be regarded as standing over are those
     referred to in paragraph 6.


 10.    WRITTEN QUESTIONS TRANSFERRED FOR ORAL REPLY
     The procedure relating to such questions remains the same, with
     the exception that such questions will be cluster-bound.


 11.    QUESTIONS TO THE PRESIDENT


     The President will answer questions of national or international
     importance once a quarter.

     Such questions will be sifted in a process involving the Speaker
     to ensure that only questions satisfying a set criteria are asked
     to the President.

     At any other time questions relating to the President must be
     directed to the Deputy President or the Minister in the Office of
     the President.

     The President will answer a maximum of six questions on each such
     day.

     The order in which parties will ask questions to the President is
     the same as that which applies to questions to Ministers: Provided
     that at the next session of questions to the President the
     sequence will be continued from the point where it was interrupted
     during the previous question session.

     Supplementary questions will be dealt with on the same basis as
     supplementary questions for oral reply to Ministers.
     Procedure:

     Questions to the President must be submitted to the Speaker's
     Office on the Monday, 16 days prior to the Wednesday on which they
     are due to be answered. The Questions office must be informed by
     12:00 on the Tuesday, following that Monday of the approved
     questions so that they can be processed and published by the
     Thursday, almost two weeks before question day.


 12.    QUESTIONS TO THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT


     Questions to the Deputy President will have precedence over
     questions to Ministers.

     The Deputy President will not answer questions in the week that
     the President answers questions or on the day when he or she is
     answering questions in the National Council of Provinces.

     The Deputy President will answer a maximum of four questions per
     question day. The time allocated for such questions forms part of
     the total time for questions.

     The order in which parties will ask questions to the Deputy
     President is the same as that which applies to questions to
     Ministers: Provided that at the next session of questions to the
     Deputy President the sequence will be continued from the point
     where it was interrupted during the previous question session.


 13.    FORM OF QUESTION PAPER


     The Question Paper will only reflect the questions that are due to
     be answered on a particular question day.


 14.    INTERNAL QUESTION PAPER


     The Internal Question Paper will be published on Tuesday, Thursday
     and Friday.

     The format of the Internal Question Paper for Tuesday, which
     contains all the questions for oral reply for the next Wednesday,
     will remain the same.
     The Internal Question Paper for Thursday will contain the
     questions in the order in which they will be answered on the next
     Wednesday. Questions to the President will also appear in
     Wednesday's Internal Question Paper.

     The Internal Question Paper for Friday will contain all the
     questions for written reply received during that parliamentary
     working week.

     The questions will retain their original numbers to assist
     departments and to avoid confusion.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly:

Papers:

1. The Speaker:

 (1)    The President of the Republic submitted the following letter,
     dated 3 March 2000, to the Speaker of the National Assembly,
     informing Parliament, in terms of section 201(2) of the
     Constitution, 1996, of the employment of the South African
     National Defence Force in terms of section 201(2)(c) of the
     Constitution, 1996:


     REPORT IN TERMS OF SECTION 201(2) OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE
     REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA, 1996 (ACT 108 OF 1996) ON THE EMPLOYMENT
     OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL DEFENCE FORCE FOR SERVICES RELATED
     TO FLOODS IN THE GAZA, MAPUTO AND SOFALA PROVINCES.


     This serves to inform the National Assembly that I authorised the
     employment of the South African National Defence Force (SANDF)
     personnel and equipment in the Provinces. This employment is
     extended from 25 February 2000 to 17 March 2000.

     This employment was authorised in accordance with the provisions
     of section 82(4)(b)(ii) read with section 227(1)(d) of the
     Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1993 (Act No 200 of
     1993), [which sections continue to be in force in terms of Item
     24(1) of Schedule 6 to the Constitution of the Republic of South
     Africa, 1996 (Act No 108 of 1996)], read further with section
     3(2)(a)(v) of the Defence Act, 1957 (Act No 44 of 1957).

     A request was received by the Department of Foreign Affairs from
     the Government of the Republic of Mozambique to render
     humanitarian assistance in the location and relocation of people
     trapped by the flooding, and to assist in distributing and
     delivering emergency supplies to the affected areas. In line with
     our international obligations to render such assistance, the
     deployment was authorised.

     The deployment consisted of 88 personnel, 5 X Oryx helicopters, 2
     X BK117 helicopters, 1 X Casa 212 and 3 X Cessna 208 light
     aircraft. The personnel and equipment were deployed to Beira and
     Maputo for the duration of the effort. Other support aircraft
     which were used for the deployment of equipment and support
     personnel to the two locations were 2 X C130 transport aircraft.

     Financial implications
     -  The estimated total cost of this deployment will be R10 267 528-
          00.

     -  I have consulted the Minister of Finance who will make the
          necessary funds available through the Department of Foreign
          Affairs and Defence.


     I will also communicate this report to the Members of the National
     Council of Provinces, and wish to request that you bring the
     contents of this report to the notice of the National Assembly.

     Regards

     J G ZUMA
     ACTING PRESIDENT

     Referred to the Joint Standing Committee on Defence.

                      WEDNESDAY, 22 MARCH 2000

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Reports of the Auditor-General on the -

 (1)    Financial Statements of the South African Medical Research
     Council for 1998-99 [RP 43-2000];

 (2)    Financial Statements of the South African Diamond Board for 1998-
     99 [RP 42-2000];

 (3)    Financial Statements of the Universal Service Agency for 1997-98
     [RP 46-2000];

 (4)    Financial Statements of Vote 35 - Transport for 1998-99 [RP 159-
     1999];

 (5)    Financial Statements of Vote 34 - Trade and Industry for 1998-99
     [RP 158-1999].

1. The Minister of Minerals and Energy: Report of the Council for Geoscience for 1998-99 including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements.

                    THURSDAY, 23 MARCH 2000
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    Assent by the President of the Republic in respect of the
     following Bills:


     i  South African Airways Unallocatable Debt Bill [B 1 - 2000] -
              Act No 7 of 2000 (assented to and signed by President on
              16 March 2000);

     ii Tourism Amendment Bill [B 3 - 2000] - Act No 8 of 2000
              (assented to and signed by President on 15 March 2000);
              and

     iii     Lotteries Amendment Bill [B 13B - 2000] - Act No 10 of
              2000 (assented to and signed by President on 16 March
              2000).

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs:

 Report of the Department of Land Affairs for 1999-2000 [RP 51-2000].

                        MONDAY, 27 MARCH 2000

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson: Reports of the Auditor-General on the -

 (a)    Financial Statements on Vote 4 - Agriculture for 1998-99 [RP 129-
     1999].

 (b)    Financial Statements on Vote 23 - Land Affairs and the
     Registration of Deeds Trading Account for 1998-99 [RP 147-1999].

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker: Final Declaration of the Parliamentary Meeting on the occasion of Unctad X. Adopted unanimously on 11 February 2000.

 We, national legislators elected by our people to represent them, are
 meeting in Bangkok at the invitation of the Inter-Parliamentary Union
 and the Thai National Assembly on the eve of the Tenth Session of the
 United Nations Conference on Trade and Development (UNCTAD X).

 We call on parliaments and their members to become more closely
 involved in the international negotiating process on trade, finance and
 development issues. As members of parliament, we speak for
 constituencies that cut across the divide of rich and poor, capital and
 labour, the public and private sector, and corporate and small-scale
 enterprise. We express concerns that encompass many single issues
 championed by various lobbies and pressure groups. Moreover, greater
 parliamentary involvement can only be beneficial to development.
 Indeed, democracy, respect for the rule of law and a government that is
 transparent and accountable to parliament are indispensable building
 blocks for good governance and sustainable development.

 We are convinced that only through greater solidarity and international
 cooperation will all peoples benefit from the processes of
 globalisation and trade liberalisation. Our participation in the
 formulation of global development policy at UNCTAD X takes on added
 importance at a time when the world community is assessing the
 potential and risks of globalisation and trade liberalisation for world
 economic growth and development and is formulating development
 strategies to make globalisation a process that benefits all peoples.
 We therefore take this opportunity to lay before UNCTAD X our
 perspective on the current state of globalisation and development.

 IMPACT OF GLOBALISATION

 The current processes of globalisation and liberalisation have had a
 major impact on people all over the world, politically, economically,
 socially, culturally and environmentally. While offering unprecedented
 opportunities for expansion of international trade and investment -
 major generators of economic growth and development - globalisation and
 liberalisation can also have substantial adverse repercussions on the
 development process if not properly managed. Although financial and
 trade liberalisation has contributed to economic growth in many
 countries, this has not been the case in others, particularly the less
 developed countries. The Asian financial crisis, the systemic effects
 of which have adversely affected international trade and the global
 economic and social development of many countries in the region and
 beyond, is a clear example of the downside risk of rapid liberalisation
 of financial and capital markets without appropriate supervision and
 regulation and an effective mechanism for the management of short-term
 capital flows.

 For a great number of developing countries, the current international
 trading system within the WTO framework has not yet yielded its
 expected benefits. Developing countries consider that the developed
 members have not yet fully implemented, in terms of both content and
 spirit, their WTO obligations, particularly in the areas of market
 access for agricultural and textile products. Various non-tariff
 barriers have been and continue to be created. They also feel that the
 WTO has yet to create a level playing field and for these reasons
 emphasise their need for special and differential treatment and
 technical assistance, particularly in the area of professional
 training, to implement their WTO obligations.

 These concerns highlight the need to strengthen solidarity and
 international cooperation in transforming existing international trade,
 financial and investment regimes into a more coherent system conducive
 to sustainable development and growth for all.

 Although global management requires international and multilateral
 norms, standards and regimes, they must be flexible and operate within
 an agreed framework. Multilateral systems and regimes have to be
 negotiated to ensure that the concerns of various groups of countries
 are duly taken into account and that, in the end, a balanced settlement
 of interests is achieved.

 The overriding preoccupation in this regard is to ensure that emerging
 multilateral systems enable different national models of political,
 economic and social organisation to function within a universally
 accepted framework of norms and rules. We are strongly convinced that
 no system of globalisation is acceptable if it attempts to impose
 standardised practices irrespective of the cultural and social values
 that have shaped societies through the ages.

 TRADE LIBERALISATION AND HUMAN DEVELOPMENT

 There is a growing consensus that economic growth should serve as a
 means towards human development. Growth should translate into the
 betterment of people's lives. International trade as an economic tool
 can make an important contribution to this goal by raising standards of
 living and enhancing employment opportunities, generating a steady
 growth of real income, eliminating poverty and ensuring sustainable
 development.

 Mechanisms are required to ensure that the benefits of trade are widely
 shared, also among countries that are currently marginalized. While
 promoting free and fair trade, we need to establish a level playing
 field. To this end, arrangements for special and differential treatment
 for developing countries and countries with economies in transition
 have to be considered. Importance should also be attached to assistance
 in capacity-building.

 The multilateral trading system under the World Trade Organization
 offers the prospect of further trade liberalisation, thus expanding
 trading opportunities. To produce realistic results, the next round of
 multilateral trade negotiations must have a broad-based and balanced
 agenda, taking into account the interests and concerns of all
 participants. Agricultural negotiations should aim at achieving the
 long-term objective of fundamental reform, while taking account of food
 security concerns and the role of agriculture in environmental
 protection. Current obstacles to agricultural trade expansion should be
 reviewed as a matter of urgency. In services, the objective should be
 to achieve progressively higher levels of liberalisation. In the case
 of manufactured products, non-tariff barriers must also be addressed to
 preserve the benefits resulting from tariff reduction. As technology
 holds the key to enhanced productivity and competitiveness, improved
 arrangements to facilitate the transfer of technology are imperative.

 As members of parliament, we reaffirm our belief that economic well-
 being and social development for all - women equally with men, the poor
 and marginalized equally with the wealthy - can be raised through the
 promotion of international trade. However, mechanisms are needed to
 ensure that globalisation and liberalisation effectively lead to
 improvements in labour and environmental standards, the protection of
 children and, generally, respect for human rights. Governments are
 encouraged to pursue a trade policy that facilitates free and open
 trade, without a hidden protectionist agenda.

 NEW INTERNATIONAL FINANCIAL ARCHITECTURE AND RESOURCES FOR DEVELOPMENT

 For many years now, the Inter-Parliamentary Union has been speaking on
 behalf of the world parliamentary community in support of the view that
 a new international financial architecture ought to be established in
 order to overcome the deficiencies of current arrangements established
 at Bretton Woods in the 1940s.

 As a result of rapid global liberalisation of financial markets,
 private capital flows of all types have increased in speed and volume.
 But the benefits of liberalised flows of finance are often nullified by
 the adverse effects of excessively volatile short-term capital flows,
 as reflected in the recent Asian financial crisis that has had severe
 negative repercussions on international trade and processes of social
 and economic development in the region and beyond. To address these
 risks of globalisation, the need to establish a new international
 financial architecture has now become more urgent.

 Establishing a new architecture should aim at crisis prevention,
 providing better mechanisms for risk and crisis management, enhancing
 international financial stability to promote international trade and
 economic development, and intensifying developing countries'
 participation in reforming the international financial architecture.
 Measures should include, inter alia, enhancing the predictability and
 transparency of international capital flows; strengthening the
 framework for national and international regulation and supervision of
 short-term capital flows and introducing safeguards against speculative
 attacks; encouraging burden-sharing between debtors and creditors; and
 improving the role of international lenders of last resort and regional
 financial support mechanisms, including the question of conditionality
 of access to credit from the International Monetary Fund. We believe
 the UNCTAD is well placed to assist developing countries and countries
 with economies in transition in addressing these issues.
 There is an ongoing lamentable tendency to downgrade the importance and
 significance of Official Development Assistance (ODA), which is a vital
 resource for poorer developing countries with little or no access to
 international private capital. Its current level of less than 0.3 per
 cent of GNP, in contrast to the universally agreed target of 0.7 per
 cent of GNP of the developed countries, has to be viewed with great
 concern.

 It should be recalled in this connection that major conferences of the
 United Nations over the last decade, such as the World Summit for
 Social Development and the World Food Summit, were used by the
 international community to proclaim the goal of eliminating absolute
 poverty and improving standards in education, health care and food
 security. Wide-ranging international norms and targets were likewise
 agreed upon for such economic, social and environmental issues as
 enhancement of the role of women, removal of discriminatory practices,
 the rights of children, child labour, access to water and sanitation,
 the safeguarding of forests and biodiversity. We reiterate our view
 that, for these goals to be achieved, a renewed effort to revitalise
 ODA flows to poor countries is crucial.

 We are encouraged by recent decisions to write off the external debt of
 poor developing countries - a measure that the IPU has been
 consistently advocating. It is important to ensure now that these
 decisions are rapidly implemented so that the countries concerned see
 the benefits of debt write-offs as soon as possible. Further
 concessions are required, in terms of both conditionality and the
 volume of debt written off.
 We are convinced that UNCTAD can play a significant role in taking a
 fresh look at the current structure of development finance in order to
 establish mechanisms within the multilateral system and in bilateral
 aid arrangements that prevent the accumulation of external debt by poor
 countries in the future. A decisive shift towards promoting sustainable
 direct foreign investment and providing concessionary finance as grants
 instead of loans is probably the best way of achieving this aim.

 NEED FOR TRANSPARENCY AND FAIR NEGOTIATION

 Multilateral and international systems - be they in the area of trade,
 finance, social or environmental regulation - should invariably be
 transparent in their design, application and practice. While
 significant advances have been made in recent years in improving
 transparency in some international organisations such as the World
 Bank, there is still a lack of transparency in the decision-making and
 functions of various multilateral bodies. Although membership of these
 organisations is almost universal, some important decisions are taken
 by just a few. Moreover, secrecy surrounds the operation of such bodies
 and access to relevant information is largely confined to governments,
 excluding legislators and civil society.

 Lack of transparency undermines the processes of benign globalisation
 and democratic governance. Multilateral trade concessions gained in the
 past have been the result of intense bargaining and negotiation. To
 advance the cause of free trade is therefore to achieve an environment
 where fair negotiation and fair bargaining can take place in a
 transparent manner without domination by the politically and
 economically powerful. As parliamentarians, we urge UNCTAD and WTO to
 address the issue of transparency and fair negotiation, with full
 participation by all countries, before the world slips back into
 protectionism.

 Multilateral institutions also need to set standards of transparency
 and accountability in their decision-making process and in actions at
 the global, regional and national levels. This is a key issue in the
 management of international trade and finance. Transnational
 corporations should be equally transparent in their practices and
 should be accountable and responsible, especially with regard to
 environmental, labour and social concerns. Particular attention must be
 given to the eradication of corrupt practices in public and corporate
 transactions.

 Finally, we call on the Inter-Parliamentary Union, as the world
 organisation of parliaments of sovereign States, to pursue and
 strengthen its dialogue and cooperation with multilateral institutions
 active in the field of trade, finance and development, in particular
 with WTO, UNCTAD and the Bretton Woods institutions, with the objective
 of providing a parliamentary dimension enabling members of parliament
 to convey the concerns of peoples everywhere to these institutions and
 to assist in forging popular support for their action. Through the
 greater involvement of parliamentarians in global development policy-
 making, the legislative branch will also be able to contribute
 substantively to developing the legislative change and harmonisation
 that are essential to participatory processes of globalisation and
 trade liberalisation.

 PARLIAMENTARY FOLLOW-UP ACTION

 We also recommend that the following measures be adopted by parliaments
 and their members in each country:


 - Ensure that the Final Document of UNCTAD X, as well as the present
     Declaration of the Parliamentary Meeting, are distributed in
     parliament to relevant committees;

 - Equally ensure that these documents are considered in parliaments and
     its relevant standing committees including, wherever possible,
     through plenary debate in parliament;

 - Utilise fully the parliamentary oversight function with a view to
     ensuring governmental follow-up to the outcome of the UNCTAD X.


 Finally, we recommend that parliaments and their members, working
 through their world organisation, the Inter-Parliamentary Union:


 - Invite the IPU Council to endorse this Declaration, thus converting
     it into a policy statement of the IPU on trade, finance and
     development;

 - Request the IPU Secretary General to circulate this Declaration to
     all parliaments represented in the IPU, inviting them to ensure
     that its contents are brought to the attention of all relevant
     parliamentary bodies for their consideration and guidance;

 - Request the IPU to establish a world directory of all parliamentary
     bodies and standing committees that address trade, finance and
     development issues with a view to facilitating the sharing of
     relevant information and experiences among them and with the IPU
     and relevant multilateral institutions;

 - Invite the IPU and UNCTAD to work closely together to raise awareness
     for parliaments and their members on the implications for national
     legislation of specific trade and investment issues and to provide
     assistance in this regard, including through the organisation of
     parliamentary workshops;

 - Invite the IPU to organise a global specialised conference on trade,
     finance and development issues, in cooperation with the relevant
     multilateral institutions, to be convened in Geneva by the end of
     January 2001 at the latest; and

 - Invite the governing bodies of IPU to establish an Ad Hoc Commission
     to look into issues relating to parliamentary follow-up to the
     Third WTO Ministerial Meeting in Seattle and to make appropriate
     recommendations for action.

                       TUESDAY, 28 MARCH 2000 TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    Reports of the Auditor-General on the -


     (a)     Deposit Account Administered by the Department of Justice
          for 1997-98 [RP 196-99].

     (b)     Certain Transport-Related Agencies, Authorities and Funds
          [RP 60-2000].


 (2)    Report and Financial Statements of the Special Investigating
     Unit for 1998-99 including Report of the Auditor-General on the
     Financial Statements.

1. The Minister for the Public Service and Administration:

 Report of the Public Service Commission on Evaluation of Departments'
 Annual Reports as an Accountability Mechanism [RP 193-1999].

                      WEDNESDAY, 29 MARCH 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
 relevant committees as mentioned below:


 (1)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Agriculture and Land Affairs and the Select Committee on Land and
     Environmental Affairs:


     (a)     Report of the Department of Agriculture for 1999-2000 [RP
          59-2000];

     (b)     Report of the Department of Land Affairs for 1999-2000 [RP
          51-2000].


 (2)    The following paper is referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts for consideration and report and to the Portfolio
     Committee on Health and the Select Committee on Social Services
     for information:


     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the
     South African Medical Research Council for 1998-99 [RP 43-2000].


 (3)    The following paper is referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts for consideration and report and to the Portfolio
     Committee on Minerals and Energy and the Select Committee on
     Economic Affairs for information:

    Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the
    South African Diamond Board for 1998-99 [RP 42-2000].


 (4)    The following paper is referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts for consideration and report and to the Portfolio
     Committee on Communications and the Select Committee on Labour and
     Public Enterprises for information:
     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the
     Universal Service Agency for 1998-99 [RP 46-2000].


 (5)    The following paper is referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts for consideration and report and to the Portfolio
     Committee on Transport and the Select Committee on Public Services
     for information:
     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote
     35 - Transport for 1998-99 [RP 159-1999].


 (6)    The following paper is referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts for consideration and report and to the Portfolio
     Committee on Trade and Industry and the Select Committee on
     Economic Affairs for information:


     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote
     34 - Trade and Industry for 1998-99 [RP 158-1999].


 (7)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Minerals and Energy and the Select Committee on Economic Affairs:


     Report of the Council for Geoscience for 1998-99 including the
     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements.


 (8)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Justice and Constitutional Development and the Select Committee on
     Security and Constitutional Affairs and the Report of the Auditor-
     General is referred to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts:


     Report and Financial Statements of the Special Investigating Unit
     for 1998-99 including Report of the Auditor-General on the
     Financial Statements.


 (9)    The following paper is referred to the Joint Standing
     Subcommittee on Accountability for consideration and report and to
     all portfolio committees and select committees and the Standing
     Committee on Public Accounts for consideration:


     Report of the Public Service Commission on Evaluation of
     Departments' Annual Reports as an Accountability Mechanism [RP 193-
     1999].


 (10) The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts for consideration and report and to the Portfolio
     Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs and the Select Committee
     on Land and Environmental Affairs for information:


     (a)     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
          on Vote 4 - Agriculture for 1998-99 [RP 129-1999].

     (b)     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
          on Vote 23 - Land Affairs and the Registration of Deeds
          Trading Account for 1998-99 [RP 147-1999].

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister for the Public Service and Administration:

 Report of the Public Service Commission for 1999 [RP 44-2000].

                        FRIDAY, 31 MARCH 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Minister of Public Works on 28 March 2000 submitted drafts
     of the following Bills, and memorandums explaining the objects of
     the proposed legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson in
     terms of Joint Rule 159:


     i  Council for the Built Environment Bill, 2000


     ii Engineering Profession Bill, 2000
     iii     Architectural Profession Bill, 2000


     iv Landscape Architectural Profession Bill, 2000


     v  Property Valuers Profession Bill, 2000


     vi Quantity Surveying Profession Bill, 2000


     vii     Project and Construction Management Professions Bill, 2000


     The drafts have been referred by the Speaker and the Chairperson
     to the Portfolio Committee on Public Works and the Select
     Committee on Public Services, respectively, in accordance with
     Joint Rule 159(1)(a) and (b).

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    Assent by the President of the Republic in respect of the
     following Bill:

     i  Land Affairs General Amendment Bill [B 64D - 99] - Act No 11 of
          2000 (assented to and signed by President on 22 March 2000).

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

The following changes have been made to the membership of Committees, viz: Defence:

 Appointed: Ntuli, S B.
 Discharged: Ntuli, M B.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Labour on Budget Vote 19: Labour, dated 14 March 2000:

 The Portfolio Committee on Labour, having considered Budget Vote 19:
 Labour, referred to it, reports as follows:


 A.     Introduction


     The Committee viewed the briefing on the Budget Vote on 7 March
     2000 as an ideal opportunity to interact with the Department, to
     assess whether its work is still on track and to examine carefully
     what the needs are of each programme and what still remains to be
     done.

     This Report records in respect of each Programme of the Department
     and of the Budget Vote as a whole -


     1. a discussion on the 2000-01 budget allocation;


     2. a presentation by the Department made to the Committee; and


     3. the Committee's comments.


     The recommendations in paragraph K of this Report and the
     Committee's comments in paragraph J are directed to the Department
     of Labour as a whole.


 B.     Department of Labour
     The Director-General (Adv Rams Ramashia) and officials from the
     Department briefed the Committee on the Department's 15-point
     programme. The briefing covered programmes that the Department is
     currently focussing on and their relevance to the budget
     (administration, occupational health and safety of persons, social
     insurance, employment and skills development services, labour
     relations, labour policy, and auxiliary and associated services).
     Adv Ramashia said that the Department's activities previously had
     been dominated by policy development, putting in place a new
     legislative framework and setting up new labour market
     institutions. However, the 15-point programme signalled a strong
     shift towards implementation. He said that the Department aims to
     ensure that the range of public services which it delivers, is
     professional and client-orientated. He further outlined the
     Department's key activities for the year, as well as the budget
     allocations. He indicated that the Department's allocation has
     decreased by 10,83%. The Department has been allocated R748,327
     billion for 2000-01, in contrast with the 1999-2000 budget
     allocation of R839,259 billion.


 C.     Programme 1: Administration


     1. Budget allocation


          The allocation for 2000-01 is R154,661 million, which
          constitutes an increase of R26,167 million. The programme's
          allocation has thus been boosted by 20,36%.


     2. Presentation by Chief Director: Administration


          Dr Haasbroek, the Chief Director: Administration, indicated
          that the key focus of the Department's administration would be
          the establishment of a public/private partnership with a view
          to setting up an electronic one-stop service, which would
          underpin the Department's commitment to accessible,
          professional and client-orientated services. He expressed
          confidence that the Department would be ready for the Public
          Finance Management Act, which will come into effect on 1 April
          2000, and said significant groundwork, including training and
          awareness-raising, has been done.


 D.     Programme 2: Occupational Health and Safety of Persons


     1. Budget allocation
          An amount of R36,477 million has been allocated for this
          programme. It is a 26,28% increase on the R28,885 million
          allocated for 1999-2000.


     2. Presentation by Director-General


          The Director-General said that the Department will play the
          leading role in implementing a Cabinet decision to integrate
          occupational health and safety competencies currently under
          the Departments of Labour, of Health and of Minerals and
          Energy. A preventative campaign to promote workplace health
          and safety is to be launched in 2000 to raise awareness and
          build capacity among stakeholders. Special attention will be
          paid to health and safety in small businesses and the informal
          sector. The Compensation Fund will be concentrating on
          improved service delivery through automation and
          decentralisation, as well as on developing policy in respect
          of new areas such as compensation for workers who contract
          HIV/Aids in the workplace and extended coverage for domestic
          workers.


 E.     Progamme 3: Social Insurance


     1. Budget allocation


          An amount of R21,408 million has been allocated for this
          programme for 2000-01. The allocation represents a 1,08%
          decrease on the 1999-2000 allocation of R21,641 million.


     2. Presentation by Deputy Director-General


          The Deputy Director-General, Mr Les Kettledas, said that the
          Social Insurance programme contributes to the Unemployment
          Insurance Fund and compensates workers employed by the State,
          or their dependants, in cases of accidents and diseases
          sustained while on duty. He said the negotiations in Nedlac
          and the passage of the new legislation through Parliament
          would be a priority for the Department this year. The focus
          will be on the social security system. The Department's
          activities in respect of social security need to be co-
          ordinated within the broader development of a comprehensive
          social security system. Regulations and guidelines will be
          improved in order to improve the management of the fund. The
          main focus is on service delivery in order to maximise the use
          of technology, management and training right down to labour
          centre level. The need to minimise fraud with regard to the
          fund is of extreme importance. He also informed the Committee
          that the new UIF Bill has been submitted to Nedlac.


 F.     Programme 4: Employment and Skills Development Services


     1. Budget allocation


          The allocation for 2000-01 is R274,361 million. It constitutes
          a 32% decrease when compared with the 1999-2000 allocation,
          which was R406,285 million.


     2. Presentation by Chief Director: Human Resources Development and
          Employment Services


          Ms Adrian Baird, the Chief Director, stated that much
          attention was focussed on the Department's flagship Employment
          and Skills Development Services programme, which is tasked
          with the implementation of the Skills Development Act and the
          Skills Development Levies Act and which receives more than a
          third of the Department's budget allocation. She further
          stated that the reduction in the allocation for 2000-01 is due
          to the fact that the funding of the National Skills Fund will
          be largely through the implementation of the skills levy from
          April 2000, and that this should not be construed as the
          government not being committed to skills development, but that
          the Sector Education and Training Authorities (SETAs) will
          become self-sufficient. She further indicated that the
          Department had driven extensive preparations with stakeholders
          to set up SETAs. This month, the Minister of Labour is
          expected to formally establish 25 SETAs, covering each sector
          of the economy.


 G.     Programme 5: Labour Relations
     1. Budget allocation


          The programme has been allocated R212,861 million, which
          represents a 1,9% increase compared to the 1999-00 allocation
          of R208,937 million. More than half of the allocation
          constitutes a transfer to the Commission for Conciliation,
          Mediation and Arbitration.


     2. Presentation by Chief Director: Labour Relations


          Ms Seftel, the Chief Director, said the main emphasis will be
          on the implementation of the Employment Equity Act, as well as
          on introduction to the amendments to aspects of the Labour
          Relations Act and the Basic Conditions of Employment Act, in
          order to address unintended consequences.


 H.     Programme 6: Labour Policy


     1. Budget allocation


          For 2000-01, the programme has been allocated R33,308 million.
          It is a 33,25% increase on the 1999-2000 allocation, which was
          R24,996 million. The programme is responsible for transfers to
          the National Productivity Institute, which amount to R20,444
          million for 2000-01. The increase is attributed to higher
          spending on personnel, intended to strengthen capacity with
          respect to labour policy.


     2. Presentation by Mr Les Kettledas, Deputy Director-General


          The Deputy Director-General alluded to the fact that a range
          of activities is under way to monitor, analise and disseminate
          labour market information and statistics. The objective is to
          conduct research to assist in monitoring, review and
          formulation of labour market policies so as to ensure that
          policies remain relevant to the developments within that
          labour market. The Department has published a report with
          regard to strike statistics. The programme provides ongoing
          support for activities relating to implementation of job
          summit agreements and other related programmes. It also
          renders assistance to other areas in need of support. There
          is, and needs to be, a close working relationship with
          Statistics South Africa to ensure that statistics are relevant
          to activities in which the Department is engaged. The
          Department is also embarking on research on the incidence of
          "casualisation" in the hospitality and retail sectors, and
          wants to determine the extent and nature of this phenomenon.
          Research is being conducted to determine the impact of labour
          market policies, which would inform future policy formulation.


 I.     Programme 7: Auxiliary and Associated Services
     1. Budget allocation


          The programme has been allocated R15,251 million. This
          constitutes a 23,82% decrease compared to the previous year's
          allocation, which was R20,021 million.


     2. Presentation by Deputy Director-General


          He explained that this programme makes provision for transfers
          to Nedlac and activities relating to International Relations
          which are relevant to labour matters. The decline in the
          allocation is attributed to a shift towards contribution to
          work centres for the disabled and workshops for the blind. He
          said the Department's work in international relations includes
          the Organisation for African Unity's Labour and Social Affairs
          Commission and the African Regional Administration Centre,
          whose focus is mainly on English-speaking countries in Africa
          in order to strengthen labour administration within English-
          speaking Africa. Other areas of work are the International
          Labour Organisation and technical co-operation. In order to
          advocate the establishment of a common regulatory framework on
          labour, employment and related social issues, the Department
          promotes the adoption of the SADC protocol on labour relations
          issues. The Department hosted an SADC conference, where 14
          SADC member states could share their experience with regard to
          labour relations matters and strengthen the capacity of
          independent trade unions and employer organisations. The
          Department appreciates the effort of businesses in South
          Africa to establish a business body to interact with the SADC
          Employment and Labour Sector. They have already been able to
          bring in all the employer bodies.

          Mr Kettledas further stated that technical co-operation should
          complement our national resources, and that they will seek
          additional resources through technical co-operation.


 J.     Committee's comments
     The briefing by the Department indicated a need for the Committee
     to be involved in issues emanating from the Department, especially
     with regard to the Budget. The committee reaffirmed its intention
     to involve itself in the process of the Department, with the
     intention to fulfil its oversight function in a more pro-active
     way. This implies that the close relationship with the Department
     needs to be continued. The Committee raised a number of concerns
     with regard to the individual programmes of the Department as they
     relate to the Budget. The Committee felt that the Department
     should focus on the following issues:


     1. Implementing performance management contracts at all levels in
          the Department, not only at the level of Director-General and
          senior officials.


     2. Integration and powers of inspectors.


     3. Promoting of small business.


     4. Following up on the workplace forums that are in place to
          establish which sectors are lagging behind.


     5. Improving accessibility and client-orientated service in rural
          areas.


     6. Briefing the Committee on what the proposed changes in the
          Basic Conditions of Employment Act entail.


     7. Streamlining the payment method of the Compensation Fund and
          the Unemployment Insurance Fund.


 K.     Recommendations


     In concluding its review of the Budget Vote, the Committee would
     like to emphasise the continuing importance of the Public Finance
     Management Act. Service delivery is crucial to the effectiveness
     of the Department, and the continued effective implementation of
     methods and mechanisms to ensure efficient delivery remains the
     top priority of the provincial offices and the labour centres.
     The Committee therefore recommends that the provincial offices and
     labour centres -


     1. develop and maintain a clear understanding of what is required
          of them in terms of delivery, based on the clearly articulated
          needs of service users; and


     2. carefully engage in, and revise, continuous progress checks to
          ensure that the budget is utilised optimally, and ensure that
          improved services are delivered to the public through the
          implementation of the Department's programmes.


 Report to be considered.

                        MONDAY, 3 APRIL 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson: The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the relevant committees as mentioned below:

 (1)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Public Service and Administration and the Select Committee on
     Local Government and Administration:


     Report of the Public Service Commission for 1999 [RP 44-2000].


 (2)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Home Affairs and the Select Committee on Social Services:


     Report and Financial Statements of the Film and Publication Board
     for 1998-99.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 The following paper has been tabled and is now referred to the
 Portfolio Committee on Finance, the Portfolio Committee on Trade and
 Industry and the Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs for their
 consideration:

 Final Declaration of the Parliamentary Meeting on the Occasion of
 Unctad X, adopted unanimously on 11 February 2000.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister for the Public Service and Administration:

 Report of the Public Service Commission on the Investigation into
 Dismissals as a result of Misconduct [RP 199-99].

 Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and
 Administration and the Select Committee on Local Government and
 Administration.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 Resolutions of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for 1999 and
 replies thereto obtained by the Department of State Expenditure -
 Eighth, Ninth, Tenth, Eleventh, Twelfth, Thirteenth, Fourteenth,
 Fifteenth, Sixteenth, Seventeenth, Eighteenth, Nineteenth and Twentieth
 Report, 1999.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on Vote 32: Trade and Industry, dated 10 March 2000:

 The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry, having examined Vote 32:
 Trade and Industry for the 2000-01 financial year, as well as the
 forward estimates for 2001-02 and 2002-03 included in the National
 Expenditure Survey, referred to it, reports as follows:


 A.     The main features of the budget are the following:


     1. The Department has been allocated R2 203,6 million for the
          financial year 2000-01, while forward estimates anticipate it
          receiving R2 264,2 million and R2 332,2 million in the years
          2001-02 and 2002-03, respectively, in comparision with the
          R2 060,9 million voted and the R2 344,6 million actually
          allocated in the Adjustment Appropriation for 1999-2000. The
          Department's budget can thus be described as a constant budget
          with minor fluctuations.


     2. The 2000-01 budget is divided into four programmes, compared to
          10 in the previous budget. These are the following:


          (1) Programme 1 - Administration (4% of the total).


          (2) Programme 2 - Trade, Investment and Entrepreneurial
              Development (88%).


          (3) Programme 3 - Trade Policy and Global Positioning (1%).


          (4) Programme 4 - Business Regulation and Consumer Services
              (7%).


          Programme 2, which accounts for the bulk of the Department's
          expenditure, incorporates seven programmes from the previous
          structure: Industrial Sector Strategy, Investment Support,
          Small Business Promotion, Trade Facilitation, Standards and
          Industrial Environment, Technology Enhancement in Industry and
          Policy Analysis and Research.


     3. The budget for Programme 1 is increased from R68,6 million in
          1999-2000 to R86,4 million in 2000-01. This is mainly to
          provide for additional personnel in the executive management
          office.


     4. The budget for activities falling under Programme 2 is
          increased from R1 896,3 million in 1999-2000 to R1 943 million
          in 2000-01. About 33,7% of the funds allocated are for
          investment support, and there is an initial provision of R10
          million for the taxi recapitalisation programme.


     5. The budget for Programme 3 is reduced from R30,6 million to
          R24,3 million, upon conclusion of the European Union
          agreement.


     6. Programme 4's budget is increased from R65,5 million to R144,6
          million, mainly to provide for the costs of establishing and
          running the Competition Commission and Tribunal.


     7. The formal classification of expenditure into the four
          programmes does not permit a ready identification of resources
          allocated to the main activities of the Department,
          particularly those in Programme 2. The Director-General,
          however, indicated to the Committee that the Department
          intends that its resources be deployed in three overlapping
          priority activities: 52% to investment, 43% to Black Economic
          Empowerment and 35% to the promotion of Small, Medium and
          Micro Enterprises.


     8. Transfer payments account for 83% of the total budget. A
          significant part of these transfer payments are made to
          associated "family institutions", including the Industrial
          Development Corporation, the Ntsika Enterprise Promotion
          agency, Khula Finance, the South African Bureau of Standards,
          the Competition Commission, Investment South Africa and the
          Board of Tariffs and Trade.


     9. Approximately R600 million, more than a quarter of the total
          amount allocated to the Department in the 1999-2000 budget,
          remained unspent at the end of the 1999-2000 financial year.
          The Department has requested that a sizeable portion of these
          funds be "rolled over" to provide, inter alia, additional
          finance for the taxi recapitalisation programme and for
          recapitalisation of Khula.


     The Committee had an opportunity to engage on budgetary issues
     with four of the Department's associated institutions: The IDC,
     the CSIR, Ntsika and Khula. Highlights of these discussions are
     set out below.


 B.     Industrial Development Corporation


     1. The IDC provides loan and equity finance to businesses involved
          in industry, tourism and agro-industrial activities. It is
          largely self-financing and pays dividends to its sole
          shareholder, the State.


     2. The IDC was responsible for 7% of the fixed investment in the
          South African economy last year, and is also extensively
          involved in the SADC region. The Corporation envisages
          assisting 350 enterprises in the financial year 2000-01 (a 55%
          increase on the previous year) and expects to approve loans
          and investments of R3,3 billion (an increase of 11%).


     3. The IDC manages, on behalf of the Department, a number of key
          industrial policy programmes as well as the National
          Empowerment Fund.


 C.     Council for Scientific and Industrial Research


     1. The CSIR provides scientific and technological support for
          industrial development. 60% of the CSIR's funds emanate from
          clients and contracts. An amount of a little over R 299
          million is transferred to the CSIR from the budget of the
          Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology via the
          Department of Trade and Industry.




     2. The amount and proportion of the CSIR's budget emanating from
          State funds has been declining. It is envisaged that by 2003
          the CSIR will receive only 30% of its funding from the
          government. There is a debate, both within the CSIR and the
          government, about what the optimum mix should be, and
          international experience in comparable institutions is varied.


 D.     Ntsika


     1. Ntsika is moving towards a greater focus on core activities.
          Its future role depends on decisions that need to be taken in
          view of the ongoing review of the small business support
          strategy. There is also debate within Ntsika as to whether it
          should focus on SMME start-up or business expansion. It has
          decided to tilt its focus towards start-up activities and
          rural enterprises.




     2. There is some uncertainty about Ntsika's present and future
          funding. Its allocation from the Department for 1999-2000 was
          reduced. The Department will provide Ntsika with R80 million
          in the 2000-01 financial year. A further R34,5 million will be
          provided by confirmed donor funding, and R1,9 million will be
          earned as interest. Ntsika estimates that it requires R 312,8
          million to fund activities identified in a needs analysis
          undertaken with provinces and other stakeholders as necessary.
          The agency needs to raise a further R13,8 million to finance
          the more limited programme it has planned for 2000-01.




 E.     Khula


     1. Khula plans to expand its business loans portfolio from R142
          million to R263 million in the course of this financial year.
          Its support programme to Retail Finance Institutions (RFIs)
          has been more successful than the bank guarantee scheme. The
          latter has resulted in only 773 active clients currently being
          served, with 6 184 jobs created.


     2. Experience with RFIs has led Khula to the conclusion that it
          needs to be more prudent with regard to provision for bad
          debts. The organisation has requested R200 million for
          recapitalisation, and says that it cannot operate beyond July
          unless further capital funds are allocated to it. If it
          receives half the amount, it says it will not be able to
          expand its activities. Khula also says it needs R90 million to
          provide service support to RFIs. Without this amount, CEO
          Sizwe Tati says, Khula will have to impose a moratorium on its
          capacity development and operational support to RFIs.


     3. It is not certain that Khula-supported activities are
          sufficiently benefitting target groups in disadvantaged
          communities.


 F.     Comments


     The Department is in the midst of a major reassessment and
     restructuring exercise, and the Committee has had a number of
     opportunities to engage with the Director-General on this. The
     Committee was informed that the format and presentation of the
     budget will be changed in future to give a clearer indication of
     priorities, as well as progress in attaining measurable
     objectives. The Committee has been invited to meet at regular
     intervals with the Department to assess the extent to which
     activities are in line with declared priorities and are achieving
     results.

     The Committee agrees that the format of both past and current
     budgets has not been sufficiently focussed. Expected outputs have
     not been clearly indicated and quantified, with the result that no
     real base to measure impact has been provided. Previous
     assessments of performance have largely relied on vague measures
     of outcome - the number of jobs said to have been created or
     sustained by various programmes. The basis of these calculations
     has, however, not been wholly clear and quantified, measurable
     outputs expected from various activities against which progress
     can be assessed, have not been developed. Thus, while some
     expected outputs are listed in the explanatory memorandum attached
     to the present budget, no quantitative indicators are attached,
     nor are details provided as to how it is intended to match these
     expected outputs with expenditure allocations.

     The Department indicated to the Committee that it is striving to
     achieve greater focus, both in its activities and in the
     reflection of this in its budget. The Department defines its
     fundamental task and strategy as being to grow the economy,
     through the following:


     1. Facilitating access to sustainable economic activity and
          employment.




     2. Raising the level of investment.


     3. Increasing market access.




     4. Promoting a fair, efficient and competitive market place for
          businesses and consumers.


     The Committee was told that, as a result of its consultations and
     discussions with various stakeholders, including the Committee, it
     had chosen to focus its various activities in 2000-01 on three key
     objectives, namely Promoting Small, Medium and Micro-Enterprises,
     Empowerment and Investment.

     The Committee broadly endorses and supports this focus, provided
     of course that sufficient attention is paid to other important
     activities, including critical multi-lateral and regional trade
     relations. The Committee accepts the challenge to engage with the
     Department at regular intervals over the course of the financial
     year to assess progress in achieving these objectives. Clear
     measurable output indicators, that assess impact and relevance as
     well as measure activity, need to be developed as a matter of
     urgency.
     While appreciating and supporting the new course being charted by
     the Department, the Committee is obliged to record its disquiet at
     the large sum left unspent from last year's budget. Although we
     understand that many of the Department's programmes involve
     transfers that cannot be predicted with absolute certainty in
     advance, the large amount that is unspent is, in our view, a cause
     for concern. We do, however, agree that it should also be seen as
     an opportunity. The Department has requested the Department of
     State Expenditure to permit "roll-overs" to support the taxi
     recapitalisation programme, the recapitalisation of Khula,
     incentives and other support for SMMEs. The Committee earnestly
     hopes that these funds are rolled over for such purposes. At the
     same time, we trust that, in the future, provision for such key
     strategic activities as the taxi and Khula recapitalisation will
     be made in the main budget.




 G.     The Committee also draws attention to the following:


     1. Both Ntsika and Khula have indicated that without additional
          funding they will be obliged to reduce their activities. We
          appreciate that the SMME strategy is currently under review
          and that it is the intention that SMME support becomes a
          priority activity and focus for the whole Department and not
          just for specific institutions. The role and scope of
          activities of both Khula and Ntsika may well change, and
          indeed, in our view, needs to change in important respects. At
          the same time, there is evidently a pressing need to expand
          the scope of SMME support. There is thus clearly a need to
          move speedily and decisively on the restructuring of the SMME
          programme and not allow the current uncertainty or budget
          constraints to result in a curtailment of services.




     2. There is need for a wider debate on desirable targets for
          government support for institutions involved in science and
          technology like the CSIR. The CSIR is clearly a valuable
          national asset, and the appropriate level of governmental
          funding for such an institution needs to be established, at
          least in part, on the basis of strategic considerations and
          not merely in the process of competing for scarce fiscal
          resources.


     3. Some evaluation and reassessment of the assignment of the
          management of a number of key industrial policy programmes to
          the IDC need to be made as part of the process of
          restructuring. While the IDC has a pool of professional skills
          and capacities that the Department may not presently have,
          managing such programmes is not the core business of the IDC,
          and the Department has to pay a management fee. There may well
          be a case for continuing to assign such programmes to the IDC,
          but this needs to be reviewed.

                        TUESDAY, 4 APRIL 2000

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Transport:

 (1)    Letter of Notification of Association with the International
     COSPAS/SASAT Programme as a Ground Segment Provider, tabled in
     terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.

 (2)    Explanatory Memorandum to the Letter of Association with the
     International COSPAS/SASAT Programme as a Ground Segment Provider.

1. The Minister of Trade and Industry:

 Reports of the Board on Tariffs and Trade on the -

 (a)    Application for a reduction in the rate of duty on certain
     frozen and canned berries and fruit, Report No 3882;

 (b)    Application for increase in the rate of duty on plastic pipes,
     Report No 3883;

 (c)    Application for rebate of the duty on frozen, mechanically
     deboned meat of bovine animals for the manufacture of sausage,
     Report No 3884;

 (d)    Application for increase in the rate of duty on industrial
     gloves and application for rebate of duty on synthetic rubber
     latex used in the manufacture of industrial gloves, Report No
     3886;

 (e)    Rebate of duty on anti-oxidants classifiable under tariff
     subheading 3812.30.10, Report No 3887;

 (f)    Application for a reduction in the rate of duty on anti-oxidants
     and accelerators, Report No 3888;

 (g)    Increase in the duty on thin sheets (voiles) of glass fibre,
     Report No 3893;

 (h)    Reduction in the rate of duty on other extracted oleoresins
     obtained from extraction of natural raw plant material classified
     under tariff subheading 3301.90.70, Report No 3895.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism on the African-Eurasian Migratory Waterbirds Agreement, dated 4 April 2000:

   The Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of The Agreement on the Conservation of African-Eurasian Migratory Waterbirds, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement.

 Report to be considered.