Mr. Speaker, I move—

Mr. Chairman, just before the adjournment of the House on Friday, the hon. member for Houghton made the introductory speech in the debate on the present Vote. The hon. member really said very little that merits a reply. There is very little in the speech that I wish to refer to. She merely referred to the high prison population in South Africa and compared it with the prison population in the USA and in the United Kingdom. As far as her comparison is concerned, I could not quite make out what she was aiming at. I do not believe the circumstances in South Africa, the human material in South Africa, is at all similar to that in the United Kingdom or in the USA. One might just as well compare the prison population of a central African state with that of one of the Scandinavian countries, for example.

I shall say something just now about the hon. member’s reference to the prison population as such. However, I do not believe that her reference to the laws which, according to her, allegedly give rise to these conditions, should be discussed under this Vote. This should rather have been discussed under the Votes of the relevant Ministers responsible for those particular statutes.

This is the first and perhaps the last time that this hon. Minister is handling the vote on this portfolio. I think he has a good year behind him. On behalf of all hon. members on this side of the House, I wish to congratulate him. The Commissioner, Gen. Du Preez, has, in my view, submitted an excellent report. I wish not only to thank him, but also to congratulate him on this.

I should like to refer briefly to various points in the report that strike me as being positive. The first aspect is that of assistance to independent States and non-independent Black States. I believe this is a very positive contribution by the Department of Prisons to the development of our neighbouring States and to other States that are still in the process of becoming independent. It is very beneficial for those States to have such a highly developed state as South Africa as a neighbour.

There is also reference in the report to the publicity by this department from time to time. I have seen some of these efforts. I have seen some of these exhibitions and I wish to describe them, in a word, as “excellent”. It is interesting, in particular, to listen to the Prison Service Band. One is struck by the youthfulness of the conductor and most of the Band members. I think one should congratulate the Band and the leader on the experimental presentation of entertainment. This is really healthy entertainment.

There is a final point that flows from the report. I refer to the question of visits to prisons. It is mentioned in the report that during the year under review, there were 529 visits to prisons, i.e., 24 by judges, 338 by magistrates, 13 by foreign visitors and 154 by other persons actively concerned with the problem of crime. These regular visits, coupled with the fact that it is possible to visit prisoners, afford members of the public who perhaps know somebody in prison, and also other members of the general public, the assurance that the handling of prisoners and their treatment is under observation at all times. Personally, I know of no negative comment that has come from any visitor. Consequently, one must conclude that there is no reason for criticism of conditions in our prisons. I think this is a great compliment to the department.

Our group on this side of the House participating in the debate, call ourselves the Justice, Police and Prisons Group. This is a group that deals with problems of crime on an on-going basis, but this does not mean that that is all we deal with. The Prisons Department is pre-eminently involved in the handling of the consequences of an offence. After the criminal has been brought to book, tried and convicted, he lands up with the department whose Vote we are now dealing with. It would have been ideal if there had been no need for prisons in the world; in other words, if we had had a society free of crime. That would have meant that there would have been no prison population. Crime is as old as humanity itself. I am pleased to learn from the report of the Commissioner that this department is itself making an effort to reduce its workload, to combat crime. It is stated in the report (page 7)—

Then there is reference to information services by way of public appearances, to welfare associations, church associations, parent-teacher associations and other bodies. It is pointed out that during the year under review there were 108 such public appearances.

I am gratified that the department is participating so actively in the information service for the prevention of crime and that the department is in fact also trying to make the community as such aware of the fact that crime can be prevented. In this regard I wish to refer to a piece of editorial comment in Nexus, the Press organ of the department, in which it is stated that crime is a social problem. The author goes on to state—

[Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I claim the privilege of the half-hour. [Interjections.] I am not going to speak for half an hour, so the hon. member need not worry. I am not going to reply to the hon. member for Waterkloof because I have a number of matters to raise with the hon. the Minister and I want to do it in as short a time as possible. I just want to recommend to the hon. member the excellent piece of research which was recently done by Mrs. Mana Slabbert of the Department of Criminology at the University of Cape Town. That deals very specifically with the question he raised this afternoon, viz. that crime is part of the society in which it is committed. A very excellent analysis is given of that and I think the hon. member would find it interesting.

On Friday when I spoke on this Vote, I omitted to commend the hon. the Minister for his first appearance in this particular guise. I am not too sure what the hon. member for Waterkloof meant when he said “first and last”, but perhaps someone else will explain that to me. Anyway, I hope that in the short time in which the hon. the Minister is going to serve in this particular capacity, we will have a reasonable working relationship. I assure the hon. the Minister that my intention is not to be troublesome, but to be helpful and also to try to assist prisoners with their miserable lot, because in my opinion there is really nothing more miserable and helpless than a prisoner and a country’s standard of civilization is, as Winston Churchill once remarked, judged by the way in which the country treats its prisoners.

On Friday I raised with the hon. the Minister the point that the number of prisoners killed by other prisoners in our gaols is alarmingly high, that this is obviously a result of the prisons being overcrowded and that there is not enough supervision. I said I hoped something would be done about it. My colleague, the hon. member for Green Point, will probably be dealing with that in more detail. I do want to point out that the people who are in gaol are being punished by being deprived of their freedom. It is surely not meant that they should also be deprived of their lives. It is the responsibility of the prison authorities to see that this does not happen. Then too, I must tell the hon. the Minister that I get a number of letters from prisons all over the country. In those letters there are the usual complaints about inadequate food, badly prepared food, rough treatment from warders and the fact that prisoners are often subject to abusive language from warders. Everytime in the past when I have submitted these complaints to the department I received a reply saying that the complaints have been investigated, but that there was no foundation to them and that they had obviously been made only with the intention of causing trouble. I find it difficult to believe that when one receives complaints from a wide spectrum of the prison institutions of this country, this is an organized plot to cause trouble. I hope that the complaints are indeed thoroughly investigated.

Up to now I have been dealing with ordinary jails and ordinary prisoners. I now want to turn to what I call the political prisoners or, as officialdom terms them, prisoners who have committed crimes against the State, in other words, people who are in jail as a result of having fallen foul of the security laws in South Africa. This class of prisoner, probably because they have a number of educated men among them who have bothered to take the trouble to acquaint themselves with prison regulations and are articulate in voicing any complaints that they have, probably are physically better off than the prisoners in many of the other jails. From them, I have had no complaints about physical ill-treatment of any kind, and I want to say at once that it also appears to me that there is no doubt that conditions on Robben Island have improved. I am told that prisoners are now supplied with beds instead of having to sleep on the floor on bed-rolls, that they have adequate clothing and that the phasing-in of food on a non-racial basis has commenced, although it has not yet been concluded. I have also been told that recreational facilities are better, that there are some sporting facilities for the prisoners and, unlike the early years, they are now allowed to listen to censored newscasts and broadcasts of sporting events. However, they are still not allowed newspapers, which is a great deprivation, particularly for this class of prisoner. They are not allowed contact visits, and I believe that the lack of these privileges is something that ought to be reviewed and that the whole policy which obtains at present of restricting visitors to what are known as “first-degree” relatives, should be changed, because there are a lot of people who do not have “first-degree” relatives, or whose “first-degree” relatives find it difficult to visit them.

There are three respects in which this category of prisoners, that is the political prisoners, the people who are in jail for committing crimes against the State, are worse off than any other type of prisoner. Firstly, they are isolated from other prisoners, and this can, of course, lead to friction and psychological problems when small groups of men are locked up together for very long stretches of time. I take as an example the case of the so-called “single cell prisoners” on Robben Island who, I understand, number about 30 and who have long been incarcerated together, some of them for as long as 14 years. People get on each other’s nerves in those conditions and friction is bound to arise. They have their own isolated recreation yard and are allowed out of this restricted area—which I understand has very high walls—about once a fortnight for a walk. Otherwise they are kept in this very restricted area all the time. They are not permitted to join in the football games with the other prisoners on the island. Worst of all, they cannot take advantage of the workshops which have been set up on Robben Island. There are many categories, such as carpentry and other constructive occupations in which these prisoners are not able to participate. The only work available to these political prisoners is work of a hard manual type, and since they are allowed to choose whether they want to do it or not, they apparently do not choose anymore to do this type of work, and so they are doing no work at all.

Secondly, the privilege of post matriculation studies which they used to enjoy, has been denied to them over the last two years, although prisoners who have already commenced such courses, are being allowed to complete them. I raised this matter last year during the Prisons Vote and I must say that I found the explanation given by the hon. the Minister’s predecessor completely unacceptable. They were petty and illogical reasons, and they amounted to punishing all the prisoners in this category for the sins of a few. Apparently a few of those prisoners had abused the privilege of using the extra paper with which they had been provided to write their exercises to send messages to each other. I do not consider that to be a sin of such importance that the result should be that everyone should be deprived of the opportunity to study for post-matriculation qualifications. Then it has also been stated that these people are incapable of rehabilitation and they use their studies when they came out of gaol against South Africa. That is really an absurd reason to give for not permitting post-matriculation studies.

Why is it absurd?

They do it anyway. If they are going to do it, whether they have obtained a degree or not in history, law, or whatever, does not make them more capable of doing that. In any event it means that those who are left behind are being punished for sins committed by those who have left the gaol, and that is manifestly unfair.

South Africa is a signatory, as the hon. the Minister must know, to the resolution embodying “the Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners” which was adopted ip 1955 at the first UN congress on “The Prevention of Crime and the Treatment of Offenders.” Rule 77 of this resolution, which deals with education, states inter alia—

I come now to the third, and what I believe the worst, form of discrimination against prisoners who have committed crimes against the State and that is that they are rarely, if ever, granted parole or remission of sentence. Neither the prison regulations nor the Prisons Act, as far as I could ascertain, actually singles out this class of prisoner for this sort of treatment. Yet, almost without exception, each and every one of them is made to serve his sentence term to the very last day. They are not released on parole and they get no remission. It is true that right at the beginning when some young people got into trouble, one or two of them were allowed to leave the country, but other than that every one of the other prisoners who went to gaol for committing crimes against the State get no remission of sentence and are not allowed out on parole. Even when they are finally released, such prisoners are not then free in the normal sense of the word as they live the restricted lives of banned men. In other words, they are twice punished, once by the court of law …

No, not all of them.

Not all of them, but a great number.

Well, why do you not say so?

Not all of them, but a great number. Most of them are banned when they are released from Robben Island, and they therefore have been punished twice. This also applies to those who are released from the Pretoria gaol. They are punished once by the court and then again by ministerial edict. I must say that the banning of persons does not fall under the jurisdiction of this hon. Minister—I will be raising this aspect with the hon. the Minister of Justice—but the present policy of no parole and no remission of sentence for “politicals” does fall under the hon. the Minister and I want to ask him to reconsider it. It seems to me that a little more of a humanitarian approach would be very good and a little less retribution would also be very good and more in keeping with the so-called new enlightened approach of the Government.

On Robben Island there are at present 492 prisoners, of whom six are under the age of 18, serving sentences for crimes against the State. There are also some young prisoners in this category at Allandale Prison. I believe there are seven White prisoners still left in the Pretoria gaol serving sentences that range from six years to life. Most of them, apart from the lifer—we do not know how long his sentence is going to be—have served more than half of their sentences, which is the period normally required of other prisoners before they become eligible for parole. I believe that remission of one-third of a sentence is generally granted as a matter of course, based of course on the good behaviour of the prisoner in gaol and providing that such prisoner is not a recidivist. However, the political prisoners are completely excluded from any such consideration. There are in all 38 prisoners serving life sentences for crimes against the State in South Africa, amongst whom of course are the so-called Rivonia group of Mandela, Sisulu, Mbeki, Kathrada and others, including Goldberg, who is in Pretoria. These people have already spent 14 years in gaol. I believe the time has come for the hon. the Minister to set up a judicial commission of inquiry to investigate the position of all long-term prisoners in this category with a view to parole or remission. Each case can be considered on merit. I repeat again that more humanity and less retribution should be the yardstick.

Finally, and here I speak in my personal capacity because this is a subject outside of strict party policy, I believe we should also appoint a commission of inquiry in South Africa to consider the whole question of the death penalty. I have raised this in Parliament as a private member’s motion and I spoke on it when the Criminal Procedure Act was amended. I believe we in South Africa ought to reconsider our attitude to the death penalty. We have the unenviable record in South Africa of hanging more people each year than the entire Western world put together, that is the few Western countries that have retained the death penalty, which are few and far between. Last year 133 people were hanged in South Africa.

Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that the hon. member for Houghton is retrogressing with the years. Already she is dealing with capital punishment during the debate on the Prisons Vote. She has dragged this in in order to present a picture of our security services that is exaggerated and lacking in perspective. [Interjections.] She ought to be ashamed of herself. My impression is that she has only a temporary interest in South Africa.

What do you mean by that?

The hon. member creates the impression that the innocent are in prison and that the guilty go free.

You are childish.

The hon. member pleads for a more humanitarian approach to prisoners. I state without any reservation that the department has an exceptionally humanitarian approach to prisoners, and that goes for the care they receive too. The hon. member tells us that she hears this and that about various prisons. I put it to her that she knows a great deal more than she professes to know.

Judges and magistrates have access to prisons at all times so that they may acquaint themselves with what goes on there.

The hon. member also brought specific matters of policy to the attention of the hon. the Minister, to which he will furnish the appropriate reply. This year I had another opportunity of visiting the prison at Klerksdorp, which is a big prison. I was impressed anew by the spic and span conditions in that prison. That applies throughout the country, according to the report which one can read, and also from reports one receives.

I wish to thank the hon. the Minister for the decision he has announced in connection with the retention of the ranks of personnel in the service of the department. It is of particular importance to these people. When visiting a prison, one is always impressed by the motivated teamwork prevailing at each and every prison.

I should like to say something about a particular aspect of the main objectives of the Department of Prisons, viz. the rehabilitation of prisoners. In order to succeed in this, probably one of the major tasks is to guide the prisoner towards religious rehabilitation. The hon. member for Houghton would do well to give attention to that, too. She could read about the spiritual care that is provided and tell us whether she thinks that the prisoners for whom she is interceding, are also susceptible to spiritual rehabilitation. I am convinced that in the important task of spiritual rehabilitation of the prisoner, the church and the department at all times co-operate exceptionally well. The State creates the opportunity and the facilities which make it possible for the church to carry out its divine calling, namely the spiritual care of prisoners. The State is not trying to encroach upon the province of the church. In fact, the State does not meddle with the principles of the church or with religious convictions. For that reason one finds that the church has virtually unlimited access to the prisoners. Actually, no other organization has comparable access to prisoners.

What is interesting, is the divergent religions one encounters among prisoners. The principle of religious freedom is recognized and upheld at all times. Apart from approximately 8% heathen among the prisoners, there are 5% plus prisoners who embrace the Jewish Faith; 1% plus Moslems; ¼% Hindu-Buddhist, while approximately 85% are adherents of the Christian Faith. It is an accepted policy that every church or denomination should itself be responsible for the spiritual care of a prisoner belonging to that church or denomination during the time of his detention and also after his discharge, because there is such a wide variety of churches and denominations—approximately 60 of them.

On 30 June last year there were 1 489 part-time and full-time spiritual workers of the various denominations and faiths working in the prisons. During that year, these spiritual workers paid 20 425 visits to prisons. Owing to the magnitude of the spiritual need and the limited time of the church for ministering to prisoners, it was decided several years ago to appoint regional chaplains at a number of major prisons to undertake spiritual work in the prisons on a full-time basis. Accordingly, the State has, in a very positive way, met the need of the church to reach the prisoners.

At this point I wish to mention, with great appreciation, the excellent work which the Chief Prisons Chaplain, Major-Gen. Sephton, has done over the years in striving for the most effective possible development of the structure and organization of the chaplain service, a task in which he is still actively engaged. It is now approximately four years since regional chaplains were appointed to the permanent establishment of the department to exercise control on a regional basis over the work of all the full-time and part-time spiritual workers, and even to minister to the spiritual needs of prisoners as well. At present, 13 regional chaplains have already been appointed, and they are representative of all the various churches performing spiritual work among the prisoners. In the prison at Klerksdorp, we are also fortunate in having a regional chaplain in the person of Col. Vorster, a dedicated person who is doing tremendous work and who commands great respect. The task of the regional chaplain requires dedication and exertion if one takes into account the fact that 15 different prisons fall under the regional chaplain in the Western Transvaal, for example. There are consistently good relations between the church and the department which continue to be improved and promoted, on the one hand by way of consultation and agreements in connection with the appointment of full-time spiritual workers and chaplains, and on the other through the actions of officers and regional chaplains at churches in various ways, inter alia, by way of preaching engagements, so as to furnish information to the prisoner and his close relations regarding the work done by the department and the church both at the time of the prisoner’s discharge and thereafter. As can be appreciated, the spiritual care of the prisoner is a specialized ministry and for that reason all spiritual workers and regional chaplains are trained, equipped and informed about their place, purpose and task in respect of the spiritual care of the prisoner.

One could still enlarge on this a great deal by referring to the particular modes of ministration, for example church services, prayer meetings, catechetic instruction, Bible study, etc., but suffice it to say that the spiritual care of prisoners is provided in the very closest co-operation with the prison personnel and members of the other specialized services. Special efforts are made with the pastoral care of psychopaths, sick prisoners, addicts, and prisoners in solitary confinement. A high premium is placed on every specialized service. It is the aim of the department to return a healthy person to society. Consequently, just as physical care receives a great deal of attention and the medical and hygienic care and supply of food is of the very best quality for the sake of physical welfare, the spiritual care, too, is of the very highest standard.

I wish to express my appreciation to the spiritual workers for their untiring and unostentatious efforts to bring about the spiritual upliftment and rehabilitation of prisoners.

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Klerksdorp dealt with an important aspect of rehabilitation and spoke about the emphasis that was being placed on spiritual aspects and the part played by the various churches and social workers in the rehabilitation of prisoners. One of the prime objects of the Department of Prisons is to place the greatest possible emphasis on the rehabilitation measures that are to be taken while the prisoner is in the care of the department. In recent years we have seen greater emphasis on rehabilitation rather than on punitive measures. I think it would be interesting if the hon. the Minister could give some indication of the degree of success the Department of Prisons is having with rehabilitation. From surveys that have been undertaken from time to time amongst White youths at the Constantia Reformatory, we know that only 12,9% did not commit a serious offence within five years of their release from that reform school. It would therefore be interesting to know whether the degree of success the Department of Prisons is having with rehabilitation is constantly under review. If it is not under review, a full investigation should be undertaken to ensure that the maximum degree of success is achieved with rehabilitation.

When one looks at the figures in the annual report of the department, one sees that there is a shortage of staff. This is highlighted in the latest report. It would be interesting to know whether the hon. the Minister intends extending the improved benefits that have been announced for the S.A. Police also to those in the service of the Department of Prisons. Obviously the need to retain staff members who have undergone specialized training is of paramount importance in bringing about a higher standard of rehabilitation, and therefore I hope the hon. the Minister will be able to give some indication as to whether it is to be made more attractive for those people to remain in the service of the Department of Prisons rather than to go into the private sector and the department losing their services as far as important social work is concerned.

We know that on daily average there are about hundred thousand prisoners and that the prevention of crime is an important aspect. This of course goes hand in hand with the success that is being achieved with rehabilitation. We know that there will always be crime and therefore crime prevention is only a matter of degree. I think it was Bernard Shaw who said that people had become so accustomed to life seasoned with crime and poverty that they could not contemplate life without either of these. The question of the prevention of crime is an important aspect in any endeavour to keep the number of prisoners within reasonable limits.

As regards the care of persons who are in the care of the Department of Prisons, one must immediately compliment the department on the fact that in our country riots and serious unrest in prisons are almost unknown, and this does show that a high standard of discipline and control is maintained in South Africa. The hon. member for Houghton referred to the question of the death of prisoners whilst in detention as a result of assaults by fellow-prisoners. The number of deaths in detention as a result of this seems to be on the increase. When one looks at the figures contained in the 1978-79 report, one sees that in that year 35 sentenced and two unsentenced, a total of 37, prisoners died as a result of assaults by fellow-prisoners, whereas in the previous year a total of 33 sentenced and unsentenced prisoners died as a result of assaults by fellow-prisoners. According to the 1977-78 report, 28 prisoners died that year as a result of assaults by fellow-prisoners. From time to time we learn about this from Press reports and trials that have taken place. We have seen the establishment of gangs in prisons. It would certainly appear, however, that the question of having adequate staff to deal with discipline in the prisons is a vitally important aspect in rehabilitation.

The question of the cost involved is also an aspect that comes very much to the fore. One only has to look at the figures in the present estimates. The average cost is now R3 per day whereas the previous year it was R2,68 per day; so there is a considerable increase in the cost per day as far as the prisoners are concerned. Here, too, one must take into account the enormous cost to the State in the event of a high crime rate and consequently a large number of persons being admitted to the various gaols.

We know that the hon. the Minister is not responsible for the fact that there are such large numbers of persons coming into our prisons, but a few years ago there was an interesting article by the former Chief Justice, Mr. Justice Ogilvie-Thompson, who highlighted an aspect that could also have an effect on the number of persons being held in prison. He emphasized the fact that a situation should be created allowing people to be placed on probation, particularly first offenders, as an alternative to imprisonment. I know that this depends on having sufficient qualified social workers who are able to report to the courts, but it certainly is an aspect that should receive careful consideration. Perhaps the hon. the Minister could take this matter up with his colleague to see whether it is not possible to have greater use made of probation, particularly in the case of first offenders, instead of sentencing them to a term of imprisonment. Probation should therefore be considered as an alternative to imprisonment.

Surveys undertaken in Japan indicate that it was possible to enlist the support of the community, with voluntary probation officers working under the guidance of trained probation officers, thus being able to alleviate the shortage in probation officers. Such people could help to give guidance within the community, thus obviating the necessity of having many people sent to prison. In many instances this could make a valuable contribution towards the rehabilitation of those people. I have had contact with ex-prisoners from time to time, and my contacts have emphasized the stigma attached to a prison record and the difficulty such people have in finding their feet again in the community. This is another aspect in the whole question of the prevention of crime, because obviously if a person is successfully rehabilitated, and is again able to adjust himself to society, he is in a position to lead a normal life in the community once more. If one reads past reports, one sees the emphasis placed on this aspect. I refer for example to the June 1976 report, which states the following—

That was contained in a report tabled four years ago. A very vital part of the overall rehabilitation campaign is indeed to try to bring about a situation in which the prevention of crime is given top priority. I therefore hope that the hon. the Minister could give the Committee an indication of whether any such national campaign is contemplated. If not, could he not perhaps give consideration to such a national campaign, a campaign similar to other campaigns we have had, e.g. the “Year of the Child” and “Health Year” campaigns. Perhaps consideration could be given to a “Year for the Prevention of Crime” so as to make the community aware of how serious this problem is within the community.

There are other aspects related to the functioning of this department. In order to try to ascertain what is being undertaken, I should like to refer briefly to the Van Wyk Committee of Inquiry into Psychopaths. In the latest report we see what steps have been taken in the establishment of the hospital prison at Zonderwater and also the fact that the first person to have undergone treatment has been released on parole, a person who was a certified psychopath. Reference is made to the fact that the Coloured community is also to have a prison hospital established at Brandvlei prison for Coloured psychopaths. No mention is made at all, however, of the other groups. There is no indication of any steps being taken to establish a prison hospital for certified criminal psychopaths amongst the Black community. I mention this because the Van Wyk Committee particularly draws attention to the fact that psychopathy is a very serious problem amongst all race groups. In fact, the committee makes a recommendation on page 24.

Mr. Chairman, it is a pleasure to speak after the hon. member for Umbilo, who made such a positive and constructive contribution here. He dealt specifically with certain aspects of rehabilitation. I am convinced that the matters he has raised, receive the constant attention of the department.

However, I wish to deal with another aspect of rehabilitation, viz. the aspect of work and training. The Prisons and Reformatories Act, (Act No. 8 of 1959) provides, in section 77, that subject to certain provisions, every prisoner should be employed, trained, and treated. Here then we have three specific directives contained in the relevant Section of the Act. In the first place, the task is to keep the prisoners occupied, in the second place it is the training, and in the third place, the treatment of prisoners. I think it has become necessary for special attention to be devoted to the first two directives, in particular, and then also to note the interaction between the two.

The learned author Max Grünhut, in his work Penal Reform—A Comparative Study, points out on page 96 that—

The author summarizes the interaction between work and training in a nutshell on page 209 of the book, as follows—

Major Gerrie Malan of the Department of Prisons wrote in the March edition of the departmental periodical Nexus that work provides practical training, while training in turn results in an improved work performance.

The function of work and training should not be underestimated. It does not only have a therapeutic value, but is also regarded as one of the most important reasons why regular bloody prison riots do not occur in South Africa. It therefore forms the nucleus of the natural discipline of the South African prison system. Apart from this, it is also valuable from the point of view of rehabilitation, and consequently also from the point of view of the prevention of crime. The learning and acquisition of skills and abilities contribute towards the prisoner, in achieving something, experiencing something new in life, which enhances his so-called self-esteem and his ego. It is consequently a requirement that all labour performed by prisoners, everything with which prisoners are kept occupied, should be meaningful and have an express purpose. The work performed in the institution should be comparable with similar work requirements experienced in the free labour market, or else it will not be possible to place former prisoners in employment in society, and they could revert to crime on account of unemployment.

With this object in view, and because the department realizes its duty in this regard, the Prison Service has modern workshops and building activities, and particular attention is paid to vocational training for certain trades. Prisoners who lack qualifications and skills, are given the opportunity of equipping themselves for a trade of some kind so that they can be usefully employed in society later on. Prisoners who plied a trade before their imprisonment, are given the opportunity of further qualifying themselves in their various vocations. In the third place, the object of work and training is to maintain knowledge and skills and prevent them from becoming rusty by constant exercise.

It is gratifying to know that vocational training is not subordinated to considerations of production and economics in the prison service. However, it is also inevitably the position that production does indeed take place and that there is consequently a direct or indirect contribution to the subsistence of the prisoner.

After consideration of various factors such as terms of imprisonment, previous criminal convictions, addiction to drugs, personal aptitude and abilities etc., the prisoner is assigned to one of the training centres. Table 19 in the Annual Report of the Commissioner stipulates the many fields in which persons have already been trained. One reads of occupations such as electrician, toolmaker, blacksmith, wood machinist, cabinet maker and so forth as far as the particular trades are concerned.

Under the heading “Industries” in the same report, there is a description of the various fields in which labour is utilized to meet the needs of the building works and building programme of the department. This technical training programme is presented in a purposeful way, and when prisoners have completed the prescribed training period for the vocations for which tests have been introduced, they are afforded the opportunity of sitting for the tests, and they obtain the very same certificates and diplomas which they would otherwise have obtained in normal society outside prison.

Prisoners who are not subjected to intensive training, for example the short-term prisoners and those who do not have the necessary aptitude, are expected to perform healthy but constructive unskilled labour. Into this category fall the helpers who are involved in the building activities and who perform certain cleaning and other essential work, and also those who are hired out by the department.

The English author L. W. Fox, author of the book The English Prison and Borstal Systems, refers, on page 181, to the problem of finding suitable work for short-term prisoners, and expresses the following view on this matter—

Section 75 of the Prisons Act provides that as far as possible, labour should be utilized in respect of public works, which means that in this regard the State should have priority in this regard. At present, labour is being utilized as follows: In the first place, by the department itself, and then under the supervision and control of properly trained personnel; in the second place, by certain State departments and local authorities, who must themselves supply the necessary guards; and in the third place, as Major Malan states in the article mentioned—

I think the House should note with appreciation the work being done in this field by dedicated officials and officers.

Mr. Chairman, I wish to thank the hon. member for East London City for a well-considered speech. However, let me proceed and thank the hon. the Minister sincerely for the Government decision in connection with the retention of the rank structure in the Prison Service. This is something for which there is general appreciation. I also wish to thank the Commissioner of Prisons and the officials of the department for the sustained high quality work they are doing in that department in the interests of our country.

It is generally accepted that the prison population of South Africa is proportionally among the highest in the world. There is also no doubt that at present the prison population in South Africa is increasing at an alarming rate. The prison population in South Africa is 389,1 per 100 000 people as against 58,5 in Denmark, 59,9 in Belgium and 23,2 in the Netherlands. The total number of people detained in prisons in South Africa as at 30 June last year, was 537 758. During the past 20 months there has been a considerable increase in the prison population of South Africa. The number of awaiting-trial prisoners has greatly increased, as has the category of people sentenced to imprisonment for a period of between two years and five years plus. This increase creates immense problems now and in the long term. This year the budget of the department increased by an amount of more than R10 million, which represents an increase of approximately 10% over that of the previous year. If one considers the increase in the prison population, it is obvious even at this stage that the increase of 10%, which is lower than the rate of inflation, will not, in the long term, be sufficient to cope with the present prison population explosion. Consequently, I should like to ask the hon. the Minister today in all seriousness whether we should not take another look at the large number of Black people who land up in our prisons as a result of control measures such as the influx control measures, etc.

We have achieved a major breakthrough with the establishment of aid centres to reduce the number of people in our prisons. In this regard I wish to tell the hon. the Minister that in the long term, our country could only benefit if we were to investigate once again whether we could not devise some other means of coping with this large number of people who land up in prison. During the year ending 30 June last year there were more than 89 000 of these people. I honestly think that from a social point of view, this is not a healthy situation in the long term and that we should therefore look into it. We are all in favour of control, but none of us, certainly not the members of the NP, are in favour of a situation where people detained in terms of control measures ultimately land up in prison where they become involved with all sorts of criminal elements and perhaps themselves fall into the trap of becoming involved in crime at a later stage.

It is also obvious that our vast prison population creates a distorted image of South Africa. Moreover it creates major problems as regards the handling and accommodation of these people. It is obvious, for example, that the extent of the accommodation requirements and the concomitant costs are going to create immense problems in future. Already the proportion of staff establishment to prisoners in South Africa also compares very unfavourably with that of other countries. The ratio between personnel and prisoners in South Africa is 1:14, whereas in Denmark it is 1:5; in Belgium, 1:2,3 and in the Netherlands, 1:1,5. The proportion of personnel to prisoners in South Africa is such that in the end it must inevitably create serious problems, also in respect of control. In view of the general shortage of manpower in South Africa, it is clear that we could have serious problems in this field in future.

The cost of detaining prisoners is also increasing immensely. In 1970, the cost of supplying a prisoner with clothing and food, was 86 cents. In the present financial year, the cost is more than R3 per prisoner. It is obvious that here, too, we are going to be faced with an increasing problem. Another fact that is connected with the immensely high prison population, is that in many respects this high prison population generates crime. There is no doubt about that. No sociologist would dispute that if one puts a large number of persons into prisons, then in the long term one will also have problems of criminality among people who are perhaps not criminals by nature but who have landed up in prison as a result of a single offence. Under these circumstances there is the further problem that as a result of our huge prison population in South Africa, rehabilitation, particularly with regard to the vast number of Black people in our prisons, is in many respects physically altogether impossible. There is a huge daily prison population and there are not sufficient personnel to perform the educational and rehabilitation functions.

The hon. member for Houghton and other people are fond of saying that the problems being experienced in South Africa prisons with the huge numbers of Blacks, is attributable to the people detained in terms of the so-called control measures. However, a very interesting feature of the prison population in South Africa is the fact that the number of prisoners per 100 000 of the population is far higher among the Coloured population than among any other group in South Africa. One could reason, according to the arguments of the Opposition, that the 840,62 per 100 000 of the Coloured population who are in prisons, should have been lower than in the case of the Black people. As far as the Black people are concerned, one finds that only 417,3 per 100 000 of the population are in prison, as against 840,62 among Coloureds. It is therefore not correct to say that control measures as such are the reason for the large numbers of Black people in our prisons.

If one considers the whole question of the large numbers of people in the prisons of South Africa, it is obvious that it is a more deep-seated problem than would appear at first sight. As far as the Black people are concerned, one could basically say that the large numbers in our prisons should be seen against the background of a cultural conflict and the serious social disruption and immense personal problems created for hundreds of thousands of Black people as a result of this conflict. It also has to be seen against the background of urbanization and all its attendant problems. Therefore, if we wish to see how we could reduce the prison population in South Africa in the long term, it is obvious that it could not be achieved by way of the single measure of rehabilitation within the prison, but that a total socioeconomic upliftment effort and a total programme of action by the Government is necessary to get the communities and the individual within a community stabilized. If we are unable to re-establish the anchors of proper family control and family discipline among our Black people in South Africa, we are heading for an ever-increasing prison population in the short term, and perhaps also in the long term. I therefore wish to make an urgent plea that our entire rehabilitation programme in respect of people who land up in prisons, be considered from the point of view of the immense social problems, and that the people outside prisons should also be aware that the entire upliftment and educational action of the Government is actually the basis on which the large prison population in South Africa can be reduced in future. In this regard I wish to ask the Minister whether there could not be a more in-depth investigation, in the Commissioner’s report for next year, of the whole concept of crime and what it is all about and whether, in this regard, it would not perhaps be possible for something other than purely statistical data to be provided.

Mr. Chairman, it is a privilege for me to follow up on what the hon. member for Innesdal said about persons landing up in prison due to what he described as control measures, often referred to in English as cases of “petty offences” relating to influx control and other forms of control. This results in persons finding themselves in prisons, not because they displayed criminal tendencies or deliberately flouted a law, but often because they find themselves in an unenviable position as regards the availability of dwelling places and employment, and this causes them to find themselves on the wrong side of the law. Attention must definitely be given to this aspect and I am pleased that the hon. member for Innesdal raised this matter, particularly after the hon. member for Waterkloof had said that the whole issue of the large prison population and the reasons for it were not necessarily a matter for the Department of Prisons. With all due respect, I maintain that to a large extent this is indeed a matter for the department, and I am of the opinion that it is the duty of the hon. the Minister to bring the matter to the attention of his colleagues in the Cabinet if the administration of his colleagues’ departments has an effect on the prison population under the control of the hon. the Minister.

I want to mention as an example something which happened locally and which indicates that such negotiations and discussions can indeed be fruitful. A few years ago the prison authorities in Cape Town brought to the attention of the chief magistrate of Cape Town the fact that the situation in the Cape prisons in particular had become untenable. As a result circulars were sent out, discussions were held with the chief magistrate of Cape Town and a new procedure was introduced in respect of persons arrested or imprisoned for drunkeness. This is just a small example by means of which I want to indicate that if this department takes the initiative, the possibility of obtaining cooperation from other departments does exist. That is why it is important that this be taken further without delay.

The importance of a prison service has been emphasized on a number of occasions in this and other debates. The fact that it is a pointer to the standard of civilization of a country was again mentioned by the hon. member for Houghton. The importance of a prison service in a country which has as large a per capita prison population as that of South Africa is vastly greater because there is a disturbing number of families, particularly Coloured and Black families, in which it is normal for a member of the family to find himself in prison at one stage or another. There is a disturbingly high percentage of people for whom it is no longer very strange or an unusual phenomenon for a member of their family to find himself behind bars. For that very reason there is a greater obligation than is normally the case on our prison service to maintain the correct standards and adopt the correct approach in the course of their activities.

The hon. member for Waterkloof made mention of the number of visits paid to prisons in South Africa in the course of the year under review. He advanced the point that this indicated that the prison service had nothing to hide and that its activities could stand the test of critical inspection. I believe that the general public would like to assume that this is the case. However, I want to say that there are still too many restrictions on public inspection of our prison service. There are still too many restrictions to create really sufficient confidence among the public that what happens within our prisons is correct and that everything is in order with regard to those people who find themselves in that unfortunate position.

On what grounds do you say that?

I say it due to the ignorance, due to the fact that they are not permitted to find out what is going on. I say this on those grounds and on no other grounds.

Where is it stated that the public is not admitted?

I am coming to that. I am now simply referring to the restrictions imposed upon the Press with regard to the publication of information in connection what takes place in the prison. As we have already indicated in previous debates in this House and during the debate on a similar provision in the Police Act, section 44(f) of the Prisons Act makes it very difficult if not impossible for the Press to give proper …

Surely it is not a restriction to publish the truth.

Whose speech is this? We are limited to 10 minutes. Does the hon. the Minister not realize that? [Interjections.]

Unfortunately there are sometimes differing opinions as to what the truth is. There is no doubt that this sort of restriction is a serious one, because it relates to publication with a view to opening to public view what is happening in our prisons. When we discussed a section which in fact had precisely the same effect, when that article was inserted recently in the Police Act, English language and Afrikaans language newspapers throughout the country stated clearly that it was extremely difficult for them to evade those restrictions in order to carry out their duty properly, viz. that of informing the public. I really do not believe that a department which has nothing to conceal has any right to impose such restrictions on the Press. There is no reason for it. If a report were to appear giving an inaccurate version of some situation, then surely there are extremely good facilities for the department to rectify the matter itself.

What do you seek to insinuate thereby?

To tell the truth, in such a case the department is in a position to invite people there so that they themselves can determine what the true situation is. They can go into the matter and study the background. Then they can try to reach a sound conclusion.

Are you insinuating that the department has something to hide?

I simply believe that the mere existence of this type of restriction is an unfavourable reflection on the prison service and does the prison service no good. That is the tragedy in this regard. Precisely the opposite is being achieved of what people hoped would be achieved when that section was inserted in the Statute Book in the first instance. Accordingly I call upon the hon. the Minister please, in Heavens name, to reconsider that kind of restriction.

Last year in a similar debate I complimented the hon. the Minister and the prison authorities on an invitation they had addressed to a group of journalists to pay a visit to Robben Island, to investigate what went on there and to see how things were done on Robben Island. At the time I said that this was a good reflection on the prison service. Unfortunately, as far as I know there has not been a repetition. Surely it is obvious that this is a sound course of action, it is obviously a sound way of promoting public relations and is the kind of thing we should like to see in our prison service, namely that more such invitations be extended and also that provision be made on an ongoing basis for representatives of the Press and representatives of the public to be accorded free access to facts and information in regard to what takes place in our prisons.

Finally, I also just wish to add briefly to what has already been raised by the hon. member for Houghton and also the hon. member for Umbilo with regard to prison violence. During the year under review the Cape prisons unfortunately held the record for prison violence. I refer to the number of persons who have died within prisons as a result of assault. This is not a matter which people in Cape Town and in the Western Cape in general can feel proud of. This is a matter which must receive the most urgent attention of the hon. the Minister and his department. This situation in our prisons has in fact got out of hand to some extent. In general, one would wish to say that one could hardly be in a safer place than within the walls of a prison, simply because ultimately, it surely ensures the best form of control, since control and supervision are easier there than in any other place in which an individual could find himself. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Green Point spoke about the large number of prisoners in the prisons of this country. That may be true, but it has nothing to do with the Prisons Service as such. The Service is not to blame for it. They do not arrest the people. They are merely there to take these people into safe custody.

The second aspect to which the hon. member referred was the visits of judges and magistrates to the prisons, and he also felt that the Press should have free access, as it were, to go wherever they wanted to go in the prisons. It is probably that he had Robben Island in mind, more than anything else, but I do not think that that request can be granted. I just wish to point out that if I had to choose between the objectivity of a judge or a magistrate and the objectivity of a junior reporter, I can find no reason why I should not accept that of the former. What is more, I should like to refer to the report of the Commissioner of Prisons, and the hon. member would do well to look at page 8 of that report. On page 8 there is a paragraph entitled “Liaison with news media” and, inter alia, it reads—

All that this presupposes is that the accuracy of a report should be confirmed. What can be wrong with that, if the accuracy must be confirmed? Or does that hon. member want one to be able to bruit anything abroad? What is happening here with the PFP is that they are dissociating themselves from the community in this country. They are one small group and all the other people are on the other side.

That is a lie.

They do not consider the Prisons Service to be part of them.

Mr. Chairman, is the hon. member for Bryanston entitled to say: “That is a lie?”

Mr. Chairman, I withdraw that. [Interjections.] It is Rex vs the truth.

The Prisons Service in South Africa has one of the proudest records in the world in respect of accessibility to the Press, to our judges and to our magistrates. It is correct that we can be proud of the openess of our Prisons Service. There is nothing to hide. Our country can be very proud of that fact.

The aim of the Prisons Service as defined in the Budget is “to contribute to the maintenance of law and order by detaining persons under legal warrant in prisons”. The purpose of the discussion of this Vote is then, of course, to see whether this department is in fact achieving this aim, in view of the restrictions on the funds at it’s disposal. The question is: Who is the person who works in this department? It is an ordinary South African who is doing his best for this nation and who must perhaps discharge his obligations in poor buildings, and who has just as dangerous as task to fulfill as any person on the borders of South Africa, because he is dealing with cunning and sophisticated criminals who are becoming more so all the time. Under these circumstances it is expected of him to return a better individual to the community than the community gave to him.

In this connection I should like to refer briefly to a matter which may be important in this context, viz. the flights and escapes which occurs during the year, for this is something which one should also see in its correct perspective to be able to appreciate the great work which this department is doing. The daily prison population is approximately 98 300. This is approximately 35 million person-days per annum. This is a tremendous number of people who require organization and administration. If one considers this aspect, one sees that there were a mere 1 781 escapes during the year. Of these only 174 were from prisons. The others were in fact mere absconders. The actual excape rate is equal to 0,0051%. That is a very small percentage, and an extremely proud record for the department. It means that they are succeeding in their aim which they set themselves and to which I referred earlier. We must congratulate this department, the Commissioner and the hon. the Minister on the absolute competence displayed.

When we consider the financial aspect, we note that this department earned R11 million, for on page 14, Vote 24, of the Estimate of the Expenditure to be defrayed from State Revenue Account during the financial year ending 31 March 1981, one reads about certain—

This is an example to many Government Departments. On this, too, the hon. the Minister, the department and the Commissioner ought to be very sincerely congratulated. I do so gladly.

If one takes cognizance of the two aspects of the financial savings which occurred and the competence with which the department is fulfilling its function, the following question comes to mind: Why is it that this department is one of the best Prisons Departments in the world? I shall suggest three reasons. In the first place it is a disciplined department. We have few prison riots. Why? Because it is a disciplined department, and the prisoner appreciates that fact. He knows where he stands. In the second place it functions with absolute efficiency. I do not think it is generally known that this department produced five Springbok shottists last year. This year the department won the inter-service competition against the Defence Force and the Police. This is truly a great achievement on its part. The hon. the Minister must not take it amiss of me now for having referred to the police, but I should like to congratulate the department of Prisons.

Something which we could also bear in mind is that the department has set its officers a very high academic standard. I think 24% of the officers are graduates. This is truly excellent and commendable, and we have the right to be proud of this department.

Finally, I wish to say that the fact that members of the department wear uniforms with distinctive badges, and receive their commissions from the State President, is an extremely important reason for the absolute competence of the Department. The authority structure within the ranks promotes better discipline. A man who is wearing the uniform feels proud of it, and will not disgrace it. For that reason I wish to thank the hon. Minister for the fact that uniforms and ranks are going to be retained in this very competent and highly respected department.

Measured against the standards of the Budget, the department has truly maintained an excellent record and for that reason I wish to congratulate the hon. the Minister, the Commissioner of Police and his staff.

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Green Point made a few observations to which I should like to refer, but before I do so I want to congratulate the hon. member for Pretoria West on his fine speech, and also associate myself with his congratulations which he conveyed to the department for the work it is doing.

Today the hon. member for Green Point objected to newspapers not being able to publish articles as they pleased on conditions in prisons. However, what articles are they not able to publish? They cannot write articles, the truth of which has not been established in the eyes of the Department of Prisons. In other words, the articles which they cannot publish are in fact negative articles in which attacks are made on the department concerning the treatment of prisoners. What the hon. member was advocating today was that the newspapers should be allowed to publish such articles. It would certainly have strengthened his case considerably if he had been able to indicate that a need for such articles existed and if he had been able to state today that abuses were occurring which no one knew about and that it would therefore be a good thing if the newspapers could expose them, but he made out no such case. His speech did, however, create the impression that abuses existed which ought to be exposed.

If a journalist wishes to write about abuses which allegedly exist in prisons, what source will he be able to consult? Surely his source can only be the people in a prison, people who can perhaps have a specific motive for telling an untruth about the prison, and whose evidence is unverified.

From whom should he establish the truth?

If a person has any complaints, he can go through certain channels. He can lay complaints with a magistrate or a judge who certainly have the right to verify them. Magistrates and judges are people of integrity and we can expect them to set the necessary inquiry in motion if they receive such complaints. If a person is assaulted in prison he can surely lay a complaint of assault with the police. Do such things happen? In addition there are Red Cross inspections which take place, during which complaints can certainly be lodged. All the reports we receive are reports to the effect that the treatment of prisoners in prison is of an excellent standard. If the request of the hon. member for Green Point were to be complied with, it would lead, without any valid reason, to query-marks being placed against the treatment received by prisoners in South African prisons.

Such a query-mark already exists.

There is no such query-mark. I also wish to point out to the hon. member for Green Point that further query-marks are being caused without there being any reason whatsoever for them, as a result of remarks such as those which were made by the hon. member for Houghton. The hon. member for Houghton referred here today to the first report of the UN Commission, a report which appeared in August 1955, and then claimed that the treatment meted out to prisoners in South Africa was not in accordance with the minimum requirements laid down in that report.

I referred to education. You did not listen to my speech.

I put it to the hon. member that her remark was not true. The Prisons Act and the regulations promulgated in terms of that Act, as well as the way in which they are being applied, do in fact comply with the minimum requirements, according to reports which were received from international bodies.

Not in respect of education. I referred specifically to education.

According to the reports the treatment does in fact comply with the minimum requirements laid down.

Oh, go away. You are a silly little man.

Is he talking Dutch brandy, Helen?

What the hon. member for Houghton should have done, was produce evidence. What proof does she have? She made an unverified statement here, a statement which had no substance whatsoever, because she cannot produce any evidence to prove that it is true. With that statement, however, she was placing a query-mark against the Department of Prisons in South Africa, a department of which the whole of South Africa should in fact be proud.

Those are her old tactics.

In her speech the hon. member for Houghton also made a plea today for prisoners who are being detained for contravening South Africa’s security legislation. She did so merely because she wished to turn this matter into a political issue.

Oh, go and get lost.

Yes, she did so because she wished to turn the matter into a political issue. She did so because she sides with those who wish to create the impression that some prisoners are not being treated properly by the Department of Prisons. But the hon. member must realize that her attempts in this connection are transparent. She expressed very little appreciation for the work being done by the department, and should, in my opinion, be severely reproached for her attitude and conduct.

The treatment of prisoners in South African prisons is aimed at the rehabilitation of such prisoners. It takes place in accordance with modern principles of penology. Every prisoner is treated as an individual. For each individual prisoner an individual programme is worked out. In this connection we should also take cognizance firstly of the classification of the prisons themselves and secondly of the respective inhabitants of the prisons. Consequently prisons are classified in the following sequence. In the first place there are maximum security prisons, in the second place medium security prisons, and in the third place minimum security prisons. The inmates themselves are classified into four categories, as I understand it. Firstly there are the C and D categories, which are the maximum security prisoners. Then there are the B and A categories. The latter are the minimum security prisoners. When a prisoner is admitted to prison and classified, cognizance is not necessarily taken only of the length of his sentence, nor only of the nature of his offence, or whether or not he is a first offender. Cognizance is also taken of his mental state, his social background, his active or his latent possibilities, and the extent to which he can benefit from treatment in prison. In addition there are other factors which play a more important part in this connection, i.e. the intellectual ability of the prisoner, his personality, his emotional maturity, his temperament and his rehabilitative potential.

In connection with the treatment of prisoners I wish to single out one important aspect today. It is that a prisoner—to express it in such terms—can make progress in prison. He can initially be classified as a C or D category prisoner. However if he behaves himself well and continues to co-operate with the prison authorities, and also if he shows a willingness to reform himself, he can be reclassified into a B or A category, and in that way improve his position in the prison.

That means that the rehabilitation programme of the Department of Prisons is geared to ensuring that the treatment which a prisoner receives in prison depends largely on himself, so that he therefore has the opportunity of reforming himself and improving his position in prison.

Mr. Chairman, I rise to speak as a person in whose constituency there will in future be one of the largest prisons in our country, but I also rise to tell the hon. the Minister, if he is not aware of it, that as far as the staff of Leeuwkop is concerned, that is the prison to which I am referring—I am in the fortunate position to be able to testify that we are very great pals. I mean this in the good sense of the word, and by it I mean not only myself personally, because the staff of Leeuwkop play their full part in the social life of that whole area. In the field of sport—we have already heard about this from the hon. member for Pretoria West—there are people who have achieved great things, and yet they play an active part alongside every member of the community. In our case, too, the uniform is no longer a frightening symbol, but rather a symbol which draws one closer and compels respect. Thus we greatly appreciate the fact that the hon. the Minister has caused the ranks of officers in the Prisons Service to be retained.

In general I wish to state that I offer it very strongly for consideration by the hon. the Minister that he should, with reference to his statement at the time of the discussion of the Police Vote, ensure that promotion is not solely on the basis of departmental exams and/or academic training. It is a generally accepted fact that the best farmer is not necessarily the farmer who has academic qualifications or has had university training. The same applies to politics, because the best politician is not the one with the best qualifications, but the one who can remain standing behind his wickets when it becomes necessary to do so. [Interjections.] I earnestly suggest that thorough consideration be given to this matter. We must not lose sight of the fact that we are frequently dealing with the loyal officer who has rendered good service with a clear record for 30 or 35 years. Does he not deserve, on the basis of his loyal service and clean record, to be promoted to such an extent, before he retires from the service, that he can look back with gratitude and pride to his service of a lifetime in the department? It is really the case that academic qualifications, although they are a good thing and welcomed by all of us, should not be the only criterion which one applies when one wishes to make merit awards to loyal officers of a department. I would appreciate it very much indeed if the hon. the Minister would confirm in this connection what he said when the Police Vote was being discussed.

Finally, one further remark. If it can be worked out in practice and if a formula can be found for it, I think one should consider, in view of the educational value for and benefit to the prisoner, to release prisoners on parole to approved institutions and/or individuals. My argument is as follows: It happens that a criminal, in the company of another criminal, elevates crime to a deed of heroism, but now I should like to know whether this cannot be neutralized and the harmful effects reduced, by placing such a criminal in the company of a person who does not belong in that category. He should therefore be placed in the company of educated people, who love freedom and deplore misconduct. There are such institutions and employers.

When I advocate release on parole, I do not of course have dangerous prisoners in mind. I wonder whether one cannot release the prisoners whom I do have in mind— these are the non-dangerous prisoners—on parole in groups or as individuals, so that when outside they are able to come under the influence of natural surroundings, and also under the influence of people who mean well with the community and society. I repeat: Is it not time to look at this matter again? I wonder whether a formula cannot be worked out in this connection, in the interests of that sector of our community whom we are so fond of labelling “unfortunate”.

I conclude by conveying my thanks to the staff of the Leeuwkop Prison for the active, splendid and noble part which they are playing in serving their community with honour, love and great dedication.

Mr. Chairman, I should like to give the hon. member for Witwatersberg the assurance here and now that serious attention is being given to the gist of what he has in mind. When I say something more about parole at a later stage I shall reply in greater detail and say what I have in mind in that regard. I should like to set the hon. member’s mind at rest. What he advocated with regard to promotion is in fact already operative in the department and it is applied as sympathetically as possible, as circumstances permit.

I just wish to confirm that to me this is an exceptional occasion, in that for the first time in my Parliamentary career I am able to take charge of this debate as the responsible Minister. It is a privilege granted to me by the hon. the Prime Minister to be responsible at the administerial level for this department and the work done by the department. I have had a pleasant nine months as Minister in this particular portfolio.

I should now like to comment briefly on specific aspects raised by hon. members. The hon. member for Waterkloof expressed his appreciation in respect of various general matters. I thank him for doing so. The hon. member for Klerksdorp, among other things, made mention of a very important division in our department, namely the chaplains service and the other spiritual workers involved. This is exceptionally important work. When one visits prisons it is a privilege to hear from the prisoners themselves of what value the service is to them.

†The hon. member for Umbilo mentioned several aspects. The first aspect I want to refer to is his question whether the system of rehabilitation is under constant review. The reply is that it is definitely reviewed from time to time. It is so important that we cannot do otherwise.

Can you say what percentage of success there is with rehabilitation?

Yes, I shall refer to percentages when I discuss the question of parole. I shall give the hon. member four or five figures in that connection.

The hon. member also referred to the question of the overcrowding of prisons, and asked whether probation could not be applied as an alternative to imprisonment, especially in the case of first offenders. The overcrowding of our prisons is a matter of great concern also to me. We are at present having serious discussions, not only with the Department of Public Works, but also with the Treasury, about this particular matter. As far as probation is concerned, it is for the courts to decide about probation for first offenders. That is not a matter for us to decide. It is for the courts to give first offenders suspended sentences. I think that that is really what the hon. member had in mind.

The hon. member asked me to institute a national campaign for the prevention of crime. Although I appreciate the hon. member’s concern about this, and in spite of the fact that I myself may be enthusiastic about such a campaign, it is not really the responsibility of my department. I therefore do not want to give any undertaking in that regard.

The hon. member also wants to know what the position is in regard to rehabilitative training for psychopathic prisoners. He referred to Zonderwater for the Whites and Brandvlei for the Coloureds. The hon. member will see from the report of the department that provision is being made at Baviaanspoort for Blacks. I hope that that system will be applied there within the near future.

*The hon. member for East London City delivered a well-prepared contribution for which I thank him. The subject dealt with by the hon. member is a very important one.

The hon. member for Innesdal expressed his concern about a variety of aspects. He was particularly concerned about the increase in the prison population. This is indeed a matter for concern, but if one looks at the statistics, one sees that this year’s figure is the third highest over the past ten years. Therefore there has not been a disturbing increase over the past year. It may be higher than the figure last year, but in comparison with the past ten years, today’s figure is the third highest. However, that does not detract from the hon. member’s contribution. I just wish to provide a little perspective on the matter as far as the increase was concerned.

The hon. member also referred to the cost increase per prisoner. That is indeed true but although I do not have the precise figures and details readilly available, I may say that our cost per prisoner is minimal in comparison with that in any other comparable country in the world. We can therefore feel very happy about that. In addition the hon. member laid particular stress on the issue of rehabilitation, and made the point that rehabilitation could contribute towards a drop in the criminal population. I thank the hon. member for his contribution.

The hon. member for Pretoria West referred to our liaison service in particular. I shall deal with that in detail in a moment.

The hon. member for Pretoria West and various other hon. members also expressed their thanks for the fact that the military ranking system will in essence be retained in this department. I am very grateful that this is the position and that I was able to announce a few months ago that the status quo would be maintained. I am pleased that hon. members take an interest in this. We all know that the question whether the department should retain its military character as far as ranks are concerned, was a very serious matter for every member of the department. I thank hon. members for their interest in this regard.

The hon. member for Pretoria Central furnished a satisfactory reply with regard to certain matters raised by members of the Opposition.

I have already replied to the hon. member for Witwatersberg.

Then there are the contributions of hon. members of the Opposition, the official Opposition in particular. I shall reply as comprehensively as possible to the matters they have raised.

†I cannot, however, understand the hon. member for Houghton …

You never could.

… and unfortunately her junior colleague from Green Point is now beginning to follow in her footsteps.

Hear, hear!

He is doing so in respect of certain of the attitudes he adopts and certain allegations he makes which I just cannot understand. He is definitely not doing it in the interests of the department or of South Africa.

That is not so.

The hon. member for Houghton today referred to numerous complaints about assaults, food, facilities and what-have-you in our prisons and alleged that the reply received was always the same. She also emphasized the question of assaults. The hon. member knows very well that she might have received complaints, but they were not numerous. Why always the overstatement?

Have you seen the letters?

The hon. member has a pretty clear picture as to the conditions on Robben Island, for instance. Yet she made the allegation that small groups were isolated and allowed out for walks only once every 14 days. She further alleged that they were not allowed to participate in sport …

I did not say that.

I made the note that the hon. member said that they were not allowed to take part in sport and because they did not have proper workshop duties, they preferred to do nothing at all. Why did the hon. member make this statement when she knew that it was not correct?

Tell us what is not correct.

I am asking the hon. member for Houghton why she makes these allegations when she knows that she is, unfortunately, the one member in this Chamber whose speeches are reported the world over. Why does she always make allegations like these in her speeches when she ought to know better?

The hon. member went on to say that the security prisoners on Robben Island received no remission of sentence and were not allowed out on parole. She also said that the moment they were released they were banned.

Most of them.

Why did the hon. member not say “some of them”? The hon. member knows that a small number are banned. So why does she say “most of them”? The hon. member knows better than that.

Are the prisoners held under security laws?

What about the merits of the case?

I will come to the merits. The hon. Chief Whip must remain calm.

*The hon. member for Green Point asked questions here, but I wonder whether he has ever taken the trouble to visit a prison? Has the hon. member ever visited a prison?

Yes.

I am not referring to a prison in a small town with one or two cells. Has the hon. member ever taken the trouble to visit Pollsmoor Prison, for example?

Yes, I have been there.

Has the hon. member ever visited Victor Verster Prison or Robben Island?

Not yet.

How many years ago did the hon. member visit Pollsmoor Prison?

He cannot remember.

I, too, think he cannot remember. It probably happened when he was a little boy. The hon. member does not have the vaguest idea of what this is all about.

[Inaudible.]

The hon. member is an advocate by profession. [Interjections.] I appreciate his profession, but I nevertheless wish to ask him whether he has ever taken the trouble to read section 44 properly? He need not even study the section.

I have just read it again.

Then the hon. member read the section badly. [Interjections.] The hon. member is making the same innuendoes as the hon. member for Houghton made.

I did not make innuendoes. I made statements.

The innuendo was made that because the department had something to hide, the department had called for legislation to impose a prohibition on the publication of departmental matters. However, when an hon. member asked the hon. member for Green Point what the department was supposed to be hiding, he did not know. When the hon. member was asked to furnish examples, he was unable to provide any.

I have never suggested that they have anything to hide. The hon. the Minister is himself creating the impression …

Order!

The hon. member also referred to murders in the prisons and said that the prisons ought in fact to be the safest place on earth. Such a thing must not happen. In other words, he is placing the blame on the department. The hon. member takes an interest in the department’s affairs. Indeed, that is why he takes part in the debate, and I am pleased that he is doing so. But has he taken the trouble, before making this kind of speech, to speak to senior officials of the department about the things that concern him, in order to ascertain the true facts and in addition—he is free to do so—to visit a prison so as to see for himself what the inside of a prison looks like. Why does he not do so before standing up in this House and saying the kind of thing which is widely publicized and thereafter cannot be withdrawn? I think it is irresponsible of the hon. member.

†I shall in the course of my reply, reply in detail to most of the matters which the hon. member for Houghton has spoken about. If I should leave anything out, she must please remind me at the end of my speech.

*I should like to deal in greater detail with some of the subjects raised. The first relates to the system of parole. Various hon. members have expressed concern about the system and its practical results. In this connection I should like to refer to certain aspects. In the first instance I want to point out that we have a releasing policy based on a practice which applies not only in our country but also in certain other Western countries. It cannot be expected that we should simply follow certain practices slavishly. We must consider whether our approach in this regard is the correct one. In this regard I should like to point out that it is necessary to take note of the ethical principles on which conditional release—parole—is based. A distinction must also be drawn between probation and parole. I am now confining myself to parole. Conditional release is granted a prisoner on the basis of philosophies peculiar to the Western philosophy of life. It is by no means a question of a prisoner being forgiven his crime or crimes. Nor is it a question of there being a stereotyped formula in which every prisoner who commits a crime is released. Nor is it a question of the Department of Prisons being 100% convinced that every prisoner who is conditionally released will not commit a crime again. In any event, such a thing would be humanly impossible. It is a question of compassion—the Afrikaans word is “erbarming”—and it is not based simply upon an irresponsible humanist or philanthropic tendency. On the contrary, it is based on the conviction that crime cannot be combated merely by punishment, and a conviction that prisoners—not all of them—may experience compassion, and that the consequences of such an experience often finds expression in the good conduct of prisoners after they have been freed from the prison. Theoretically speaking, the prisoner released on parole is subject by law to certain restrictions. The sentence remains in full operation and if he were at any time to be unwilling or unable to comply with the conditions of his release or if were to misbehave, he may be returned to the prison in his own interests and in those of the public, in order to serve the remainder of his sentence. However, the fact that an offender serves his whole sentence does not necessarily make him a better person.

We have statistics relating to the freeing of prisoners in categories of sentence: Up to and including six months, longer than six months and more than two years. For those under six months, the number of prisoners whose condition or release was refused by the Commissioner—it is therefore not automatic—amounted to 3 302 during the period 1 March 1978 to 31 March 1979. The number of prisoners whose conditional release was delayed after approval had already been granted for conditional release was 108 during the period 1 September 1978 to 31 March 1979. The number of prisoners whose parole was cancelled after having been approved was 461 during the period September 1978 to March 1979. I am giving these figures to hon. members because less well informed people argue, incorrectly, that the people are granted parole automatically and that certain malpractices arise from this. That is not so. Bearing in mind the fact that a prisoner must be released at some stage by law, one may ask who ought to bear the blame if such a prisoner were to commit a crime again after having been released unconditionally. I have something to say about this this afternoon. There is a lively discussion in progress concerning this subject among various departments, inter alia, the Department of Prisons, the S.A. Police, the Department of Justice and the Department of Co-operation and Development, and probably the Department of Welfare and Pensions, too, as well as other interested bodies, with regard to matters relating to our judicial procedures and the position of prisoners. I should just like to point out certain figures to hon. members in connection with our parole system. I think the hon. member for Umbilo put a question to me in this connection. I do this merely to indicate to hon. members that our parole system is not a failure. In the case of prisoners who have been sentenced to terms of up to four months, the percentage of failures is 17,86%. Hon. members will realize that there is very little opportunity for rehabilitation as far as these people are concerned. In the case of prisoners with sentences of more than four months, up to and including six months, the percentage is slightly higher, namely 18,37%. Here again it is a case of lack of opportunity for rehabilitation. In the case of prisoners with sentences of longer than six months, up to and including two years, there is a drop, because then the system of rehabilitation begins to come into effect. In that case the percentage is 15,82%, and in the cases where the sentences are longer than two years, the percentage is 11,19%. Hon. members can see, therefore, that the process of rehabilitation implemented in the prison does benefit prisoners substantially. With regard to Whites alone it is interesting to note that the number of Whites who fail after being granted parole, is 14%. That is in the case of White prisoners serving sentences of two years and longer. Here again I feel satisfied that the percentage is low if one takes into account the problems we are faced with, our population structure and the population in our prisons.

Is that in regard to sentences of two years?

Two years and longer. In this regard I also wish to refer to the recommendations in the report of the Viljoen Commission, the Commission of Inquiry into the Penal System of the Republic of South Africa. This report was published in 1976. Various recommendations were made in this very important report with regard to parole. I wish to refer to three recommendations. The first is the recommendation on page 143, in paragraph 5.3.4(2)—

This refers to the Department of Justice. This is a very important recommendation, but unfortunately it is not being implemented regularly in practice at the moment. I should also like to refer to two other recommendations, namely those which appear on page 163 of the report in paragraph 6.5. They are recommendations 5 and 6. Recommendation 5 reads—

Recommendation 6 reads—

In this regard I should just like to say that I have decided that an interdepartmental committee is to be appointed immediately, a committee of the Departments of Prisons and Police, with the aim of investigating in depth and complying with the recommendations in the report of the Viljoen Commission. I also have the assurance of the hon. the Minister of Justice that the Department of Justice will co-operate, and I have every reason to believe that the Minister of Co-operation and Development will give us his co-operation as well, so that this committee may consist of knowledgeable senior officials of the three departments, officials who will give constant attention to this whole matter of parole. I also just wish to add that because this problem is not my responsibility alone but that of a few departments, I am going to ask this committee and my hon. colleagues to give urgent attention to the details provided in table 18 on page 28 of the report. These are statistics relating to influx control. At present, due to offences of this nature, the prison population totals up to 61 000 and more. This is a very serious matter and one which has received attention for a number of years. It is a source of disquiet to many of us. I want to say to hon. members, in particular the hon. member for Houghton …

I mentioned that on Friday.

… that I will make an earnest request to the committee to take an in depth look at this matter and to advise us and other departments who are trying to bring about an improvement in this regard.

That is very good news.

Yes, I am a good Minister. The hon. member is beginning to realize that.

But you are not going to stay very long.

The hon. member for Houghton and other hon. members expressed ideas about the study privileges of prisoners. This matter was dealt with at great length in last year’s debate by hon. members and also by my predecessor. Therefore, for obvious reasons, I do not wish to go into this in detail. The time for this debate is in any event very limited. It is probably unnecessary for me to deal with the question of study opportunities for prisoners who have not matriculated and the rehabilitative effect and sound advantages of study. I should like to place on record the fact that it is untrue—such an accusation has been made—that prisoners are not entitled to study after matriculation.

I did not say that.

No, the hon. member did not say that. I am just placing it on record.

*Facilities exist for all prisoners to study for the matriculation certificate and there are facilities for all prisoners, except security prisoners, to obtain qualifications after matriculation. The only condition set in this connection is that prisoners must follow courses which it is practicable to study in the prison, and which do not require practical training. For the moment I shall leave the details aside. Do hon. members know that the usual lights-out time is 20h00? However, prisoners studying for matric or engaged in a literacy project need only switch off their lights at 21h00, while all prisoners who are registered as university students can have their hours of study extended to 24h00. I think that this is an exceptional privilege for prisoners. They can study until midnight, although most of them do not study later than 23h00. I should like to point out to hon. members that for every questionnaire that a candidate has to submit, he can be exempted from work the previous day to enable him to prepare for the examination. Many hon. members in this House did not even have that opportunity. They even had to sit here during evening sessions and then write examinations the following day. The prisoner gets a whole day to prepare himself. I hope the hon. member for Houghton takes note of this.

[Inaudible.]

I now wish to refer to security prisoners. I do not wish to cover the whole terrain covered last year. Last year the reason why security prisoners had not been permitted to study after matric during the past two years was debated at length. The reasons for this were furnished and abuses were pointed out.

[Inaudible.]

The hon. member for Houghton does not accept the explanation. She thinks that they are not good arguments, but I shall leave it at that. All the arguments were dealt with at length during the debate last year. The administrative problems that existed were also debated at length, and therefore I am not going to deal with the matter in detail again at this point. I should just like to say that together with the commissioner and senior officials of the department I have given constant attention to the whole matter of study opportunities for security prisoners. We have received responsible representations from various persons and bodies in South Africa and overseas, not only over the past nine months while I have been responsible for this matter, but prior to that as well. The Commissioner and I have considered the matter again and we have decided that study opportunities will be reintroduced for security prisoners.

Will be?

Yes.

Oh, good.

They will be introduced on the basis that they will be practicable courses. A prisoner must not come and ask us whether he can take a complicated B.Sc. degree which requires a lot of practical work. We cannot handle impossible subjects. I am referring to normal post-matric courses of study. The details can be furnished to the people concerned by the Commissioner at a later stage. At this point I am merely announcing that a decision has been taken to reintroduce this. Time does not permit me to go into detail.

That is more good news. We have only had good news so far.

If the hon. member for Houghton would only give me a chance. She is making me excited. Let me just see what more I can tell her. In connection with these further study opportunities for security prisoners and their circumstances, the Commissioner has also appointed a departmental committee to investigate all aspects of these security prisoners. I do not wish to intimate thereby that hon. members, particularly those opposite, should cherish expectations of novelties and improvements. That is by no means the case. This committee will do its work quietly and will report to the Commissioner, and on the basis of that report the Commissioner will decide what the position of the prisoner is to be. I want to assure the hon. House that constant attention is given to the circumstances of the prisoners. One of the matters to which the Commissioner gives his serious attention and which will probably be finalized in the foreseeable future if not this afternoon or perhaps tomorrow, is that an English and an Afrikaans newspaper may be made available to the library of these prisoners.

Uncensored?

The Commissioner is considering the matter. As far as we are concerned, it will be censored very little, if at all.

The Citizen.

I do not say that that is what the Commissioner will decide, but if a journal such as The Star in English and Die Burger in Afrikaans were to be provided, the prisoners would in any event be in good hands.

There is another aspect about which I have something to say, namely the accusation by the hon. member for Green Point that the Department of Prisons hides behind legislation. The reason for that may be that there are malpractices.

I did not say that.

The hon. member made sinister suggestions. If the hon. member were only to take the trouble to read section 44 of the Prisons Act properly, he would see that it provides that any member of the public may, with the authority in writing of the Commissioner, publish photographs, details, sketches of prison premises, and, under certain circumstances, even of a prisoner in the circumstances in which these people live and work. Section 44 goes on to say that such publicity must be the truth. That is all that is asked. The hon. member for Green Point charges the department with telling the public and the Press that they must only publish the truth about the department. I cannot understand that. I do not know how the hon. member’s head works, if it works at all.

Does he have a head? [Interjections.]

It looks like it.

Mr. Chairman, I should like to put it to the hon. the Minister that the problem I am struggling with is the question why such restrictions do not apply to other departments. Why do they only apply to the S.A. Police, Prisons and the Department of Defence? Why is it necessary?

There are of course other bodies too, for example the Atomic Energy Board and other organizations to which similar restrictions apply in terms of legislation. Those restrictions do apply and there are very good reasons for them. The most important reason, of course, is the security aspect. From the point of view of security it is most important that such restrictions should exist. Are we, then, to permit the Press or any other organization in South Africa to publish at will anything and any photographs about our prisons, particularly our security prisons? Surely the hon. member for Green Point will agree with me that that could not be permitted. Therefore, if the hon. member does not expect that and agrees that there must be a degree of restriction, why not uphold those restrictions?

[Inaudible.]

No. Let us rather approach this matter with a little more responsibility. I should now like to refer to an editorial in Beeld dated 5 May 1980. I do this so that we can at least find a positive point of contact. It is clear that the hon. member for Green Point has never been near a prison in his life. That is why he is concerned.

Are you trying to make me out to be a liar?

I shall use this editorial in Beeld as an example. In fact, this is one of a number of similar examples which have come to my notice over the past few months, examples of concern expressed in a responsible way in some of our newspapers with regard to the provisions of section 44 of the Prisons Act and the question of the extent to which reports in connection with prison activities may be published. In the editorial in question the editor says, inter alia, the following—

The editor goes on to say that he had made a submission to the department, and that the department had furnished him with a full reply. The editor also said that the integrity of the department was above suspicion. Then he went on, and I quote—

Later he says—

This is precisely the situation that prevails in the Department of Prisons. There is nothing wrong that we wish to conceal. After all, the hon. member could read that in the department’s annual report as well. Other hon. members have mentioned how many visits have been paid to prisons by judges and other people. Surely the hon. member knows, too, that the has a special Directorate of Information, an information service which functions on a 24-hour basis. The Press knows that too, and makes use of it.

During the period 1 July 1976 to 30 July 1977, 896 Press inquiries were dealt with during office hours and 225 out of office hours. During the corresponding period in 1971-’78, 645 inquiries were dealt with during office hours and 171 inquiries after office hours. During the corresponding period in 1978-’79, 35 inquiries were dealt with during office hours and 184 inquiries after office hours. Surely this indicates that this is a system which works. Informed people make use of the system. In future, if the hon. member for Green Point does not want to address inquiries to the department or to me, he need only ask the Press how this system works. They will be able to provide him with all the information.

I read in the Press what they say about it.

I think it was the hon. member for Green Point who mentioned that there was a Press project in terms of which a group of Pressmen were taken to Robben Island, a project which was a great success. It gave rise to much positive reporting. The hon. member asked why this was not followed up. The fact of the matter is that over the past year there have been 20 Press projects with regard to visits to our prisons. These have taken place at the request of the Press itself. We were very willing to co-operate. I should like to place on record here today that it is the standpoint of the department that it does not wish to conceal everything behind high walls, as some people think.

I want to put it to our media that we are not engaged in concealing things. I also wish to put it to hon. members opposite that they need not be so suspicious. My standpoint and that of the Commissioner is that it is our aim to inform the public about the activities of the department in a balanced and positive way. We want the public to be aware of them. After all, we do good things.

Mr. Chairman, may I ask the hon. the Minister whether he is prepared to allow a group of hon. members of this House to visit various institutions during the recess?

Yes. As a matter of fact, hon. members on this side of the House who are interested in the affairs of this department have already asked me to arrange such a visit in Pretoria and Johannesburg. I will gladly, as I always do in the case of these visits, include any hon. members of the Opposition who may be nominated.

*I should very much like to do so. The hon. member can take it that this will be done in the recess, as soon as possible after the June vacation.

I now wish to conclude by saying that we do good things in the department. Good things, too, take place behind those prison walls. It is not only ugly things that take place there.

Hon. members have referred to the large number of murders that take place. However, hon. members must come with me and make the acquaintance of the kind of people we have in the prisons where those murders take place. [Interjections.]

Some of those people do not only arouse a feeling of pity. One is not merely amazed. When one walks out of there, one says to oneself: “I had not thought we had such people in our community; I am rather pleased to be outside again.” I do not say this to be disparaging towards those people, but they are among the crudest people one finds in any community. They are people who would cut another person’s throat for no reason whatsoever. The other day I was at one of these prisons in which this worst class of prisoner is accommodated, the very worst. Those people cannot even be permitted to work together during the day, because they might get hold of a hammer or a stone. Even when they are working outside in the open air one has to separate them, and I am not referring to only a few. This applies to hundreds of them. There have been cases of a prisoners simply picking up a hammer and smashing in another’s head, and then one is saddled with a murder. Then hon. members opposite ask why there are so many murders in prisons.

Take the question of gangs. In some of our prisons the behaviour of these gangs was utterly abominable. There have been some of the crudest and ugliest cases one could imagine. We should really be very, very grateful that such a small number of murders takes place. This is due to good supervision, proper discipline and proper care of these people. We should thank the good Lord every day of our lives for the fact that so few of our officials get hurt. If hon. members were to make the acquaintance of some of the people we have in our prisons, they would be very grateful to walk out of there. They would thank the good Lord that so few of our staff are injured in the execution of their duties.

What about remission?

We should therefore like section 44 to be seen as a positive section. We should like to implement its provisions positively in co-operation with the media and members of the public. All we say that there must be sound discipline. Accordingly such requests must only be addressed to the Commissioner. Apart from that, we can only set the requirement, on the basis of experience in the past, that what is published must be the truth. I do not think that this is an unnecessary restriction.

†I am not sure whether I have answered all the questions raised by the hon. member for Houghton.

No. There is still the question of remission and parole for security people.

The hon. member has asked me to consider parole for security people. The hon. member knows what the attitude of the Government is at this stage. [Interjections.] Let me just tell the hon. member that I am making a note of this, but I am not taking the matter any further. As far as I am concerned, at this stage there is no parole. I have, however, made a note of her request.

*There is another matter in connection with security prisoners which I should like to mention. The hon. member referred to it. It is not true that they can only get out every 14 days. I want to place these facts on record. The security prisoners on Robben Island in the B or A group do move around. There is a group of approximately 50 who are regarded as a leadership group, and these are accommodated on their own. They do not associate with the other prisoners during leisure time and otherwise. However, they get out every day of their lives. They are entitled to walk around on the sportsfields every day of their lives. They regularly participate in sport. Some of them play tennis every day of their lives. As far as that is concerned, they are very well looked after, and their health is very good. I therefore want to place on record that these people get more than sufficient opportunity to get outside and participate in healthy sport. They are not kept apart all the time.

I do not believe there is anything else to which I have not yet replied.

The provision of employment for those people.

When they had the opportunity they did not want to do it in any event. I am sorry that I cannot reply to that in more detail at this point, because I do not have the time. Perhaps we can discuss it personally.

I should just like to express my gratitude for the positive contributions of all the hon. members who took part in the debate. I do not include the hon. member for Houghton, because she said a few things which made one a little hot under the collar. I can assure hon. members that this fine department will carry on with its work this year in the same positive way as it has done over the past year.

Mr. Chairman, I request the privilege of the half-hour.

I believe that at the outset we should try to look at South Africa through the eyes of the outside world, to look at South Africa as perhaps an overseas investor might look at it and to try to look at the positive advantages an overseas investor might find when considering investing in South Africa. First of all, and very obviously, the outside investor will look at South Africa in terms of its tremendous mineral wealth in the form of gold, diamonds, platinum and many other precious metals. Secondly, still looking through this investor’s eyes, we find that as regards the steel-making process we have almost every mineral that is necessary to produce steel. We have vast quantities of iron ore. While on the subject of iron ore, I saw in a Press report recently that there is concern in Japan about the world supply of iron ore. I wonder if the hon. the Minister would like to comment on this with a view to South Africa’s export of iron ore to Japan and other countries. With a shortage apparently just over the hill—they were talking about a shortage during the ’80s—would it perhaps not be wise to conserve our iron ore and not export as much as we are currently doing? We also have plenty of coking coal. We have manganese and we have chrome in enormous quantities. Our neighbour, Zimbabwe, of course has plenty of chrome as well. We also have vanadium. These are the precious metals and minerals we have in quantity.

In addition to this, we have an established infrastructure in South Africa which, frankly, cannot be matched by any underdeveloped country in the world. I would not call South Africa under-developed, but certainly we do still have tremendous scope for further development. The basic infrastructure is there. We have our communication networks and our transportation networks. We have road networks, we have banking and financial expertise and we have managerial talents. All of these are available to the investor in South Africa.

Many countries in the Western world have these various talents, but what they lack and what South Africa has is the final element of labour. We have a large and almost untapped pool of unskilled labour, and I believe that this is the crux of the whole issue. We have untapped labour the Western world does not have. We are all aware that the highly industrial countries in the Western world have over a number of years had to import their unskilled labour from various countries. Unskilled labour from Turkey and Eastern countries have poured into, for instance, Germany, which has used this pool of unskilled labour. This is coming to an end. It is creating problems of assimilation in the countries to which these unskilled labourers come. We in this country cannot exist in isolation. I believe that our resources here in South Africa must be utilized in conjunction with and to the advantage of both ourselves and the Western world. What we need in this country is the job opportunities.

I think one of the foremost problems that faces South Africa today is South Africa’s ability to create the employment for the present unemployed, and not only for the present unemployed, but also for the unemployed in the future, the tremendous number of people who are coming on to the labour market year by year. I think it is appreciated by hon. members on all sides of the House that we are having difficulty in finding sufficient work for these people to do and creating the job opportunities. We need these opportunities and the Western world needs unskilled labour. When one looks at these two factors, surely it becomes obvious that we must try to put something together whereby we, and the Western world, can help ourselves to provide the jobs and the booming economy that we need. The cost of providing these jobs is not cheap. It is escalating very sharply. Hon. members might be interested in the recent report of the Ciskei National Development Corporation. In that report one sees that in 1975 the investment per Black work opportunity was R4 168. In 1979 this figure had escalated to R7 200. But the very serious situation that has arisen is that in this report mention is made that they had recently approved three new industries. These new industries will create a certain number of jobs, and when one does a division one finds that on the capital that will be spent on the jobs that will be created it cost R25 587 per job. The report states further that they have also approved the extension of six existing factories, which will cost a certain sum of money and which will create a certain number of jobs. If one does a calculation there one will find that those jobs have cost R35 714 each to create. This is obviously ludicrous. We cannot afford to spend money at this rate to provide jobs. We simply do not have the resources in South Africa to do this. Taking the latter figure, it will cost R35 714 million only to cope with an unemployment figure of 1 million, and I believe the unemployment figure is in excess of that at this stage.

It thus becomes obvious that outside investment must be a major part of our strategy, and I believe we can get this investment by capitalizing on our advantages and by providing the labour pool which the Western world so badly needs. We must create the right climate to encourage multinational corporations to invest in South Africa, particularly those that are labour intensive. We must let them use our local and imported materials to manufacture for world-wide export. Let South Africa become an industrial base which they can utilize to export throughout the rest of the world. We are strategically situated between the East and the West and we are on a major sea route. These are all advantages which we can use to sell South Africa. By all means, let us insist on a percentage of local equity in the enterprise. Let us not see giant multinational corporations setting themselves up here without some benefit in terms of capital being created for South Africa. By all means, let us insist on local equity in these enterprises.

I believe the concept can be of undoubted benefit, but how does one bring it about? Various measures are employed throughout the world and—and this is what I am really driving at—three basic methods are used. These are firstly, a free port; secondly, a free trade zone and, thirdly, an export processing zone. I believe we can discount the free port concept. There are only approximately 13 of them throughout the world and these are situated predominantly on islands where the sea forms a very definite boundary. In this regard Hong Kong and Gibralter spring to mind. The free trade zone is the most common type of customs privileged area in the world today. There are about 80 of these around the world and they are specifically orientated towards industrial growth.

They are used to stimulate activities that are in the national economic interest. They do not create imports and they encourage the final processing of goods before they enter the commercial life of the country. Thus local labour, materials and component can be used. All manufacturing operations are reviewed in advance for their impact on the balance of payments and on the domestic industry. I believe that we might well look at free trade zones for utilization in South Africa. Then there is of course the EPZ, the export process zone. These are export orientated and designed to stimulate industrial development. They do not compete unequally with local industries and so will not affect the local market adversely. In Taiwan, in the village of Kaosuing, they have 170 acres as an export process zone, and that set-up employs no less than 42 000 workers in 150 factories. When one looks at the South African situation, if we can create job opportunities for 42 000 people, we would be doing a great job. The EPZ is outside the customs area and, in addition, tax benefits should be available in proportion to the employment created. For South Africa the advantages are obvious. It creates employment; it brings in foreign currency; it brings in foreign investment; it brings about closer ties with the Western world and, of course, it will have the additional advantage that a EPZ should really be situated in a coastal area where one’s port is close by and able to freely export the goods. It is also obvious, and I am sure the hon. the Minister, as a Kapenaar himself, will agree with me, that it is necessary to create more employment opportunities in the Cape. We have recently seen, in the latest delimitation, how fast the Transvaal is developing and how the Cape is lagging behind. This is perhaps another additional benefit that could be derived from an exercise of this nature.

To leave that issue for the moment, I want to come to the State corporations and their capital market operations. The State corporations are taking tremendous sums of capital out of the South African economy. They have done so for a number of years and it is patently their intention to continue to do so. There are Iscor, Escom and Sasol and they all draw huge sums of money from the South African capital market. I believe that better control of this withdrawal of capital from the market is necessary. I appreciate that there is an interdepartmental committee for the determination of capital investment priorities, but it certainly has insufficient powers to curb what they themselves believe is an expansionist drive of State utilities. The Board of Trade has recommended stricter discipline. Yet I understand that the hon. the Minister has rejected these recommendations. When we exist in a society where the hon. the Prime Minister himself has suggested that we should go more towards a free enterprise system, perhaps one should wonder if that message has got through to the hon. the Minister. I would therefore call upon him to accept recommendation 13 of the Board of Trade and Industries report, namely that a capital project evaluation group for the public sector should be established, a group that should have power to control the quality and the priority of capital projects. I believe it is necessary that, in looking at the overall economy and where big corporations can make such a tremendous impact by the withdrawal of funds, this must be controlled. Priorities must be decided upon. One cannot have corporations working in isolation and withdrawing tremendous sums of money out of the available capital in South Africa.

Then, on the next point, I was asked by the hon. the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries during the discussion of his Vote to bring some points to the attention of this hon. the Minister, points which I had made for the attention of the hon. the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries. These points relate to Escom and the rural electrification system. In the first place, I believe that Escom is robbing the farmer by charging him 18% per annum on capital cost of the extension of the line to the farm. This is nothing short of usury and it continues forever. That 18% is paid annually for the rest of that farm’s life. Secondly, the capital costs are too high within Escom, and I quote the example of Vredefort, where Escom quoted R300 000 for the installation of lines to a group of 10 farmers. A private contractor was able to quote for the job at R180 000, a saving of R120 000. In the third place, Escom controls the area in which a municipality can supply electricity. I therefore call, firstly, for Escom to reduce the 18% charge; secondly, for municipalities to supply to farmers in at least 20 km beyond their present areas; thirdly, for farmers to be allowed to instal their own lines and transformers subject to inspection by Escom; fourthly, for farmers to be allowed to form electrical co-operatives, to purchase in bulk and to distribute amongst themselves, including their having the right to have private contractors to instal the lines and transforming stations—I can tell the hon. the Minister that this has been done successfully in the United States of America for many years— and, fifthly, for the Government to subsidize the farmers with cheap loans and subsidized charges in certain areas, to enable them to electrify, thus saving diesel consumption and, of course, plenty of foreign exchange. Escom is, of course, a subject entirely on its own. I think that one should at this stage have a closer look at the situation as regards the report of the Board of Trade and Industries and Escom as a whole. I believe that the system which is utilized by Escom is, without doubt, very badly in need of considerable overhaul, and anyone who reads the report of the Board of Trade and Industries for last year will realize why that is the case. When one finds in that report that they themselves estimate that Escom’s earnings as a percentage of average equity in 1977 was 59,1%—that is in table 5.17 of the report of the Board of Trade and Industries —one realizes what a fantastic investment Escom has. The earnings as a percentage of average equity was expected to be 43,8% in 1978 and 38,7% in 1979. However, what do we find in 1980? We find that, yet again, Escom has put up the price the consumer has to pay, presumably to keep this tremendous profitability going. I would also point out that in America, where the utility companies, such as electricity supply companies, are funded by private enterprise, one finds a situation where those utility companies make an average profit of only 12% after tax, and when one compare this with an Escom figure running over 50%, one realizes that private enterprise would perhaps be doing a better job for the average South African than Escom would.

Escom’s off-take of capital expenditure from 1978 to 1985—and this ties up with the second point I mentioned during this debate —is expected to exceed R21 371 million. That is a tremendous sum of money to take out of the South African economy. Where are they going to fund this from? They intend to fund almost half of this amount from retained tariff income, in other words, from profits and depreciation. This is very clearly stated in the report of the Board of Trade and Industries in table 5.22. They estimate that the profit component will grow from 0,58 cents per kilowatt in 1978 to 1,72 cents per kilowatt in 1985. So what are they looking at? They are looking at increasing profitability. I also believe that these figures must be looked at in the light of the fact that the cost of electricity represents a significant proportion of the total costs of input in the South African economy. Electrical supply is a very major proportion of their costs for many industries. One finds that, in looking at these figures, the electricity costs in certain Undertakings in South Africa are in fact higher than they are in most of the outside world. An article which was written especially for Energy and the Environment by H. J. Burger and C. T. Birch states that—

I cannot believe that that can be borne out in any shape or form. I do not believe that that is a correct statement and I want to quote some figures. Admittedly the figures I have relate to 1978. I do not have the latest figures. But if one looks at the Reef as being a unit of 100 and makes certain assumptions in terms of demand, usage, etc., one finds that if the Reef is looked at as being 100, East London is 244; Austria, 157; Denmark, 130; Spain, 93; Sweden, 98 and Switzerland, 130. Great Britain is 125. What I am therefore really saying here, is that in certain areas—and I know that the worst possible example of this type of undertaking can be found in East London—the cost of electricity to the consumer in that area is considerably higher than would be paid in an equivalent situation in many countries of the world. This being the case, I believe there is a very good case to be made out for the hon. the Minister to take further action in regard to Escom and to make certain recommendations.

When the Electricity Act was passed in 1922, there was no immediate thought of a national power grid. This is now a reality, while the Act has remained much the same. I believe therefore that, firstly, there should be a move towards the equalizing of tariffs throughout South Africa and, secondly, that power should be delivered to each undertaking at the same basic rate, no matter how far from the point of supply that undertaking is situated. I believe that because we have a national power grid, every undertaking should be entitled to buy its electricity from that power grid at the same basic unit cost. The undertakings which are at the moment situated the farthest away from the points of supply, are penalized heavily.

My second suggestion relates to the construction activities of Escom. I believe Escom should only run, repair and maintain, and not embark on construction of any kind. I appreciate that they do get quotes for most, probably all, of their large capital works, but they do, I understand, erect their own power lines and undertake the erection of a certain amount of original capital structures themselves. I do not believe they should do this. I believe that their job should basically be to run, repair and maintain their power lines, and not to put up new power lines. I believe that private enterprise will be able to do the job of putting up such lines and erecting transformer stations at a far less onerous cost than Escom currently charges. I think the instance of the Vredefort farmers is adequate proof of this. I believe therefore that the hon. the Minister must act soon in terms of the report of the Board of Trade and Industries on this matter, and if it does, South Africa will, I believe, owe him a big debt of gratitude.

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for East London North is the official Opposition’s new shadow Minister of Industries and of Commerce and Consumer Affairs.

He is always in the shadow.

I should like to welcome him in this capacity.

The hon. member referred to the possibilities of foreign investment in South Africa and made certain remarks in connection with Escom. Other hon. speakers on this side of the House will react to the question of Escom. I just want to say that for the most part I agree with him on South Africa’s potential as far as foreign investment is concerned. He also referred to our vast infrastructure, to the financial institutions and to our manpower.

However, I do find that the official Opposition is always seeking to create the impression that the Government’s first duty is to provide manpower. The only task of the Government and the department is in fact to create opportunities and incentives for the private sector. In this respect the Government and the department are extremely successful, particularly if we bear in mind that, according to an article which appeared over the past weekend, we created 13 000 employment opportunities during the first three months of this year, as a result of the economic climate which has developed. In respect of this matter we must indeed congratulate the department and the Government for creating the opportunities and climate for this new revival.

Although I have been participating in debates on economic affairs for years now, it is also a privilege for me to participate for the first time here today in my capacity as chairman of our Industries and Commerce and Consumer Affairs study group.

As a result of the Government’s programme of rationalization this department indeed offers tremendous new challenges for the future. I just wish to dwell for a few moments on the restructuring and functions of the department. The hon. the Minister of Industries and of Commerce and Consumer Affairs took over this department in the course of this year. Perhaps it is because he is a medical practitioner that the economy has been very sound over the past year. Incidentally, the former chief spokesman of the official Opposition and I are medical practitioners too. On this occasion I should just like to thank Dr. De Beer for his contributions in similar debates in the past. I should also like to express a word of gratitude and appreciation to Mr. P. F. Theron who, after a long period of excellent service to the State, is to resign in the course of this year. We wish him, too, everything of the best. A word of welcome, too, to Dr. Du Plessis, who will take over the reins of this department later this year.

With the removal of the Sea Fisheries function of this department and the addition of tourism and the liquor industry, the functions of this department are now coming into their own, and what belongs together is being united. It is therefore necessary to take a closer look at the functions of this department, since it has quite often been criticized in the past for possibly being too zealous in the execution of its task and interfering in the free market mechanism.

Any protagonist of free enterprise will readily agree that the system cannot function properly unless the State exercises a regulating function. The purpose is specifically to organize and regulate the unacceptable manifestations of an uncontrolled capitalist system. If this does not happen, the system will destroy itself. The question arises: How far must the State go, for too little control will give rise to exploitation of the public, and too much control impedes the working of the system? Fortunately the hon. the Minister and his department have very effective legislation in South Africa with which to fulfil this function. The Competition Board is in a position to curb any over-zealous control by the State. In my opinion the department has demonstrated during the past year that it has fulfilled this function with distinction.

The next important function of the department and of the State is in its capacity as a producer. This task is confined to strategic industries and enterprises of national importance that are too large for the private sector to manage. Even with regard to these factors the Government, particularly in recent years, has increased the involvement of the private sector. As examples I could mention the systematic elimination of certain Iscor interests and the issue of Sasol shares to the public. On the one hand I want to welcome this trend. On the other, I also want to issue the warning that this should be done with the greatest circumspection, otherwise we may find in future that the economic viability of certain Government corporations may be seriously prejudiced.

In this respect I am referring in particular to certain outside interests of Iscor, which were, and to a large extent still are, intimately bound up with its own economic activities and vitality. We should not forget that Iscor’s major task is to produce a strategic national product. Furthermore we should also bear in mind that Iscor has to produce a considerable number of profiles that are not profitable, whereas other steel industries for the most part sell economically profitable profiles to the trade. A number of hon. members, including hon. members of the official Opposition and of the other Opposition parties, had the privilege of taking a closer look at many of Iscor’s activities during the previous Parliamentary recess. We were once again tremendously impressed by the scope and importance of its activities for South Africa.

We should like to convey our sincere gratitude to the hon. the Minister, the department and Iscor for the opportunity we were afforded to obtain such profound insight into this whole industry. It was gratifying to hear that Iscor is overcoming its economic problems, which arose during the years of recession. However, in the national interest, the hon. the Minister and the department must jealously guard Iscor’s interests, although we were tremendously impressed by Iscor’s own capabilities.

I should also like to point out that the department’s next task, apart from its administrative function, is that of a publicity department, a department that is to create opportunities for two of the most important facets of our economic activities, viz. tourism and export promotion. Other hon. members will have more to say about these subjects.

My time has almost expired. I just want to point out in conclusion that the Department of Industries, Commerce and Consumer Affairs is playing an extremely important role in the prosperity of our country and its people. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I do believe I have a rather unique opportunity this afternoon in that I am called upon to congratulate the new chairman of the Government’s study group on this particular portfolio, and also the new chief spokesman for the official Opposition, as well as a new Minister. This is the first time that he handles this particular Vote in his new capacity. I for one fully appreciate the tremendous task and responsibility which the hon. the Minister now has. We have just heard the hon. member for Newcastle explain some of the functions of the department. We also heard the hon. member for East London North talking about Escom’s long term capital development programme of some R21 000 million.

This hon. Minister has an extremely important role to play in the economy of South Africa. For this reason I should like to refer particularly to inflation today. I appreciate the fact that the hon. the Minister’s predecessor conducted a very extensive campaign in order to combat inflation. I do think, however, that we must accept that that campaign in fact failed. It failed for a great variety of reasons. However, I sincerely hope that despite this failure the hon. the Minister is not going to ignore this problem. In fact, I hope he is going to give it his very close attention. I think that it has been said that inflation is the result of people wanting more goods and services for less work or effort on their part. This is a modern trend might I say, as we all know. The hon. the Minister of Finance has however, in recent years, corrected his side of the problem by keeping Government spending within tight limits and by maintaining a tight rein on the money supply. One would have hoped that as a result of this there would have been a decline in inflation, but this has not been the case. I therefore believe that we must look for other possible reasons why we have not got the better of this problem.

If people want more goods for less work— and this is a natural phenomenon in the modern world because of our political systems and the rising expectations of people as a result of education—it must follow that if inflation is not to occur, the entire production system within a nation must produce more goods for the smaller effort. What I am trying to say is that I believe that our whole production system in South Africa has to produce more goods, not only as a result of the human effort put into the production process, but more especially as a result of the human effort put into the production process, but more especially as a result of the capital, material and technological components in our production sphere. The hon. member for East London North spoke about the huge amounts of capital required to provide jobs. I believe that we have to measure our capital investment in terms of the number of jobs that are created per unit of capital employed. If we are fighting inflation, another measure should be the return on our investment, in terms of productivity or goods produced, per unit of capital invested. We have to study this very closely at this time in South Africa. Mankind has gone through the whole industrial revolution, from way back in the last century, through Henry Ford’s introduction of mass-production techniques. Today we have the micro-chip, the computer with integrated electronic circuits, etc. Somehow the Western world has not, however, got the better of the problem of inflation. I believe we have to ask ourselves why.

In this regard, I should like to ask the hon. the Minister, whether we are getting enough return for the capital, technology and the effort we are investing in our industry. I do not believe we are. I firmly believe that we can do better. Having studied the CSIR report, I see on page vii a discussion of the year in retrospect. The report indicates what the CSIR is attempting to do and how it marshals the tremendous reservoir of technology and research behind its projects. An example it refers to is the national energy research programme in which altogether 56 organizations, including universities, statutory organizations, Government departments, private companies, etc., are involved in trying to overcome our energy problems. Perhaps the CSIR should launch what I would like to call a national production systems research programme. What I envisage is a research programme into the various systems of production in South Africa, analysing these systems to see whether we are getting the required pay-back that we should be getting in an attempt to overcome this problem of inflation. Are we getting enough pay-back in terms of the investment of human, capital and technological resources? I think that that is an important question we have to ask ourselves. All too often, I believe, men on the job are so preoccupied with the day to day problems that they cannot see the wood for the trees. Therefore, if the CSIR could launch a research programme, as I have suggested, they could provide for these engineers, the technologists, the managers on the job some form of guidelines or rule-of-thumb methods by which they could examine their own production systems and determine whether they are in fact, getting the benefits from it that they should be getting.

I should like to give a practical example. Some 20 years ago the sugar industry, an industry I know, was afraid that within a period of five years it would not be able to harvest its sugar-cane manually because of the cost of labour and because of the shortage of labour. The sugar industry then decided to send a delegation around the world to investigate this problem, and I was fortunate to be a member of that delegation. We went to Australia, Hawaii, the United States, etc., and examined every mechanical and manual system of harvesting sugar-cane in these countries with a view to bringing back to South Africa a mechanized system by means of which we could meet the predicted challenge of no labour and high wages. As a result of this study, we recommended that rather than mechanize entirely, we should partially mechanize and thereby introduce a whole new system of harvesting this crop. We went into this in great depth, and as a result it was decided to mechanize only the loading of the sugar-cane, but to retain the manual cutting of cane. We also changed the method of cutting cane. In fact, under certain field conditions, we introduced a different type of cane knife—it was as simple as that.

What has been the result of this exercise in systems analysis? Some 17 years later I do not believe there is a single mechanical harvester operating commercially in South Africa. I exclude Swaziland.

Not one operating efficiently.

I am prepared to wager that if I, as a cane farmer, operated a mechanical harvester in South Africa today the cost of doing the job would be double the cost of harvesting manually. But what else has the industry achieved? I have estimated that the sugar industry has saved in the region of R50 million of capital it would have had to invest in mechanical harvesters had it totally mechanized the harvesting operation. More important, it has retained some 15 000 jobs by keeping the manual cane cutters in their job. What is even more important, is that by changing the system, by removing the arduous task of lifting and carrying the cut cane, the cane cutters’ productivity has increased as much as threefold and fourfold with the result that today in many cases he is earning as much as an industrial worker does in the neighbouring industrial areas.

This is the sort of thing I hope the hon. the Minister will give consideration to. I have given one example I know of—there are many, many other disciplines I do not know of. I do know, however, that we need a co-ordinated research programme of what I would call system analysis to determine whether in fact we are doing the job the right way in view of our peculiar circumstances. We are a nation with rich natural resources, tremendous labour resources and great technology. Somehow we have to marshal the technology and the capital of the Western world with the labour resources and the attitudes of the African world. We have to put these two together to create an effective economic machine. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, firstly I should like to congratulate the hon. member for Amanzimtoti on his now being the NRP’s chief spokesman in this field. I think that he has now been congratulated from all sides. The hon. member made a good speech. He referred in particular to inflation, which is a difficult problem, all the more so because we do not have an isolated economy. In the course of my speech I shall also refer to the question of inflation, from the point of view of the consumer. The hon. member also referred to the sugar industry. He is an expert in that field. He stated a particular problem by way of an example and the hon. the Minister will probably furnish him with an appropriate reply.

We find ourselves in a time of an economic revival. In just such a time the buying public can very easily go on an undisciplined buying spree. The fact that prices of goods and services are rising are, of course, still a cause for concern, but I also believe that every consumer can make a contribution to efforts to reduce prices, so as to combat inflation in that way as well. If one firstly guards against buying overhastily, if one thinks again before one buys, and if one secondly guards against purchasing goods beyond one’s means, and thirdly considers whether what one wants to buy is really necessary, and fourthly considers how effective what one wants to buy really is, if one buys selectively, if one buys quality goods and if one makes judicious use of durable goods and services, I believe that one can make a contribution to forcing prices down. Every person would like to improve his financial position, but a great onus rests on him to spend his money within his means. Of course, this is not always easy for everyone to do.

I am concerned about the fact that there seems to be too much buying on credit. In fact, people’s salaries are often discounted months in advance. One can so easily buy oneself rich, but eventually this causes people in this position to become despondent which in turn affects their ability to work and lowers their productivity while it should in fact be raised. If everyone in our country were to make an inventory of everything they possess but do not use, i.e. useless and unnecessary things they have bought, they would be surprised at the value of such items measured in monetary terms. Standards of living are most definitely not measured in the first instance by the quantity of goods one possesses or has purchased.

At the same time I want to point out that owing to the constantly growing buying power in this country and the resultant increase in the daily consumption goods trade, a major onus and responsibility rests on the dealer to ensure, in his conduct towards the buyer, and in particular the unsophisticated buyer, that such a buyer receives value for his money. The dealer plays a very important part in the promotion of human interrelationships. The shop floor is a daily meeting place of all peoples and here the businessman, through his conduct, can instill the confidence and set the example which is necessary for the promotion of relationships.

I should like to refer to the question of the quality of goods. No one can afford to purchase rubbish or poor-quality goods, irrespective of whether this is a physical commodity or services which are rendered to a person. Consequently we should guard against the sale of poor quality goods to people. Owing to the work of the SABS the consumer is able to purchase a quality product when purchasing just about any product.

I should like to say something about this and a few other aspects of the work of the SABS. The buyer’s guide made available by the SABS serves as an exceptional aid, not only for the consumer, but for the dealer as well. I believe that one should make more extensive use of this guide. A product bearing the SABS mark offers, inter alia, the following advantages to a consumer: It ensures the optimum quality for price and purpose, it guarantees approved quality and thus offers confidence in the product, it protects the safety and the health of the consumer, it saves time while shopping so that time-consuming comparisons are eliminated, it ensures easier replacability and repairs and provides effective action by the SABS in cases where deficiencies in manufacture occur.

A more extensive use of this buyer’s guide can only be to the advantage of the consumer because it ensures quality in every case. It is indeed necessary to exercise a greater measure of common sense when buying. Real planning, and in fact responsibility when buying, must form part of an individual’s make-up.

The SABS plays an exceptional part in our economy and beyond it. In fact, it is an organization which enjoys great international recognition. The best co-operation continues to exist between the Bureau and the industry.

I should like to refer with appreciation to the fine service rendered by Mr. F. J. Teichmann as Director-General of the Bureau for more than 30 years and to his exceptional contribution to the development of the organization. I also wish the new Director-General, Mr. D. P. Verster, everything of the best.

The SABS participates in a large number of activities and I should like to refer to a number of recent highlights, apart from those mentioned in the SABS annual report. The first permit to use a standard mark on mobile houses was recently issued to a manufacturer in Pinetown. A Cape Town firm received the first permit to place a standard mark on women’s handbags. This is basically a fashion article and I think the hon. member for Germiston District will be interested in this. Thirdly, pamphlets on safety symbols and safe wiring practices have been translated into Xhosa. Brochures on standard marks and precautionary labelling of textiles are nearing completion.

A meeting of the International Standards Organization’s technical committee on sizing systems and instructions for clothing was held in Pretoria last year. Thirty three delegates from 22 countries were present. The official of the SABS in Geneva was appointed chairman of the International Standards Organization’s committee on certification for three years.

A five-year investigation programme into construction material and corrosion protection of pipes for underground use has been launched on behalf of the Chamber of Mines. The Chamber has also changed over from its own value design to the utilization of cast iron valves manufactured according to SABS standards.

The SABS plays a major part in export promotion and import reduction. A recent example is an inspection of locally manufactured isolators for export to Greece, marble to Italy and Germany, and many others.

Standardization helps to develop local products to a level where they can replace imported goods. A recent example is the paper for cheque forms, which is now being manufactured locally under SABS supervision. The advantages of standardization for large buyers is well known, but lower income groups are also benefitted. In a recent comparative test of inexpensive tin-openers, the one type failed after having been used 80 times, whereas another type could open 3 000 average tins.

In 1979 a standard agreement was signed between the SABS and the National Bureau of Standards of Taiwan.

One is grateful for the work being done by the SABS and I am also convinced of the fact that the Bureau should be given greater publicity in the interests of all the inhabitants of this country. I am thinking, for example of publicity through the medium of television as well, by way of spot advertisements.

Mr. Chairman, we wish the hon. the Minister and the hon. member for Newcastle well in their new capacities.

The hon. member for Klerksdorp spoke about people who should buy only what they can afford and said that there were too many credit sales. There is a lot of sense in what the hon. member said but I assume the hon. member is conscious of the tremendous expansion of our industries as a result of the large number of credit sales.

†There has to be a balance between credit and cash sales and generally speaking I think that commerce and industry in South Africa have adopted a very responsible attitude in that regard. In terms of recent legislation the hon. the Minister also has the authority to intervene, but, generally speaking, I think that he will find that commerce and industry will adopt a positive attitude in regard to credit sales, because, after all, if the person in commerce and industry who sells the goods gives credit too easily, in the end it will be the seller who goes bankcrupt. Therefore the seller has to adopt a very responsible attitude in relation to his credit sales.

South Africa has made enormous strides in certain industries and in certain fields, like the field of energy, she has led most other countries. It has been estimated that by approximately 1985 Sasol will produce more petroleum products than the combined production of all the oil companies operating in South Africa. The Industrial Development Corporation and the people at Sasol are to be congratulated on their foresight and enterprise in this most magnificent venture.

The Managing Director of Sasol holds the view that more can be done to make South Africa an exporter of energy. He mentions the coal possibilities and investigations at present to produce methanol from coal, and to export same to countries for their electricity requirements. Some of these investigations are being done at very great cost and the Government would be well advised to look into the possibility of giving these companies greater concessions for development purposes and, of course, providing greater export inducement facilities. There has been an assessment that there would be a world-wide shortage of iron ore during the mid-1980s and that the importance of South Africa as a reliable supplier in this regard cannot be overstressed. I should like to ask the hon. the Minister in this respect whether now is not the time to form a consortium of foreign and local interests to proceed with a semis plant, a project that was held in abeyance some years ago when it came on the boards at that stage. I think the estimated cost a few years ago was R2 400 million, and the earnings per annum in respect of foreign exchange ran into many hundreds of millions of rand. As in the case of Sasol, once the initial risks are taken and the scheme is running profitably, the public could possibly participate. It is absolutely vital in general that we should export more semi-processed products than raw materials. That would not only be an enormous boost to our industrial growth, but would also create vast job opportunities in various fields. It goes without saying that that would make those industries far more self-reliant and would enable them to become far more diversified. The World Bank has called on the Iscor computer expertise to help it evaluate applications for loans for steel works. The bank asked Iscor to draw up a computer model to help in evaluating the applications from developing countries. Iscor was chosen because of its position as a steel producer in a developing country. The World Bank is apparently fully satisfied with the model produced by Iscor. This is a tribute to Iscor to be singled out, and we are pleased that Iscor has received international recognition in this way. It is also pleasing to see that Iscor’s situation has changed, because Iscor is now running at a profit, and we hope that that situation will prevail.

I was surprised to see a report by the Board of Trade and Industries with regard to the very low increase in labour productivity. Between 1970 and 1977 the percentage increase in labour productivity was 5% in South Africa, compared to 17% in Britain, 41% in Japan and 65% in Belgium during the same period. This lack of productivity must surely contribute very strongly towards our inflation rate. This is a matter which must obviously be of very great concern to the hon. the Minister and his department, and it is a matter which I believe requires urgent investigation. The public corporations have an important role to play in the industrial development of our country. More particularly, risk capital is needed, and where the private sector is not prepared to put up the risk capital it is expected that the public corporations put up the risk capital. It is an unfair situation, but that is how life is. The public corporations will be spending nearly R10 000 million in the next few years, until 1982, the largest percentage of which, namely 40%, will be provided by Sasol and approximately 37% by Escom. I think that the public corporations must continue to expand, but as in the case of Sasol, once the initial risk has proved successful, the public finance should be raised. In this way, the public corporations can raise further capital for expansion and the private sector can make its contribution towards that expansion. I believe that one of the most important matters that should occupy the minds of the people in this department, of all Government departments, as well as the private sector, is the development of Southern Africa. While we have neighbours that are poor, hungry and sick and without the basic infrastructures, we shall have neighbours who can fall prey to the Marxist expansion in Africa. For so long, too, will we have neighbours who will be envious of the position of South Africa. A development bank must be established, as well as an African economic market, to see to the developing of the economic potential and welfare in general of Southern Africa. The Marxists have come to Africa with armaments for warfare. Nowhere have they brought economic prosperity, food production or improved health services. On the contrary, they have brought chaos and increased poverty. This continent, like all the others, is divided between the States that have and the States that do not have. The private sector, the Government and the public corporations have the expertise to co-operate with the States of Africa so that each one can realize its full potential. Each State, on its own, can never achieve for itself as much as a constellation of States can achieve for each of them. It is therefore in the interests of all the States of Southern Africa to co-operate with one another to their mutual benefit while each State retains its own complete sovereignty. For obvious reasons the West has a vested interest in the economic development of Southern Africa and should be approached to play a part. A development bank and an African economic market must be established and a blue-print must be drawn up of the essential requirements of each State and the priorities in fields like economic development, of increased food production and of health services, etc.

The intention must be to develop the resources of each State to the fullest and to realize the potential of the citizens of that State to the greatest benefit of each State. This will lead to stability and development in the whole of Southern Africa. It is of no use the West merely giving direct financial aid to the African States without the necessary expertise to ensure that that aid is used as productively as is possible. I believe the West should have a hand in the formation of the development bank and should provide some financial assistance. The Government should approach the leaders of the West. One of the leaders may be approached to co-ordinate and to inspire the West to greater momentum. One does not want to single out a particular leader, but it seems as if Mrs. Thatcher, the British Prime Minister, is the one who will get the ball rolling the fastest. In the meantime commerce and industry must proceed with matters, while the public corporations could assist the Government in this enormous task. Peace and stability on the continent are dependent upon improving the living standards of all the people of Africa. We should not wait for the West to help, but proceed as a matter of urgency, because even if the West is not disposed towards helping us, we would in the circumstances have wasted no time in that regard. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I rise merely to afford the hon. member the opportunity of completing his speech.

I thank the hon. member the opportunity which he affords me to complete my speech.

I now want to turn to another matter. I want to tell the hon. the Minister that we await with interest the outcome of the investigations concerning the stimulation of the motor industry by extending the terms of repayment and by reducing the initial deposits for the purchase of motor-cars. Members of Parliament for Port Elizabeth have made, some verbally and some in writing, representations that industrial concessions for further improvement in the Port Elizabeth region should be granted. The hon. the Minister has received written representations. We are pleased that this matter is also enjoying the attention of the hon. the Prime Minister’s planning advisers as it is absolutely necessary that our region realizes its full potential. We have the water, the land, the electricity, the airports, the railways, the university, the schools and the training colleges—the complete infrastructure necessary for further industrial development at the lowest possible costs. The development possibilities in our region are unlimited, and all we ask for is for the Government to investigate ways and means of assisting us to develop our region so that our region can make the fullest possible contribution to the economy of South Africa as a whole. In conclusion I want to tell the hon. the Minister that we enjoy the fullest co-operation and assistance of the various departments, including the public corporations that fall under him. We are grateful for this.

Mr. Chairman, as usual the hon. member for Walmer made a very positive contribution, a contribution for which I thank him. I do not want to react any further to his speech.

The hon. member for Amanzimtoti said that our inflation campaign had failed. I just want to ask him whether he is not aware that our inflation is primarily imported inflation. It is caused by rising fuel prices and the increase in the prices of machinery and equipment which we have to import on a large scale for the rapid expansion which is taking place in this country.

I am very glad to participate in this debate today, for it is an exciting experience to discuss the South African economy, for while the rest of the world is expecting a recession, South Africa is entering a period of economic revival. Whereas the Western world is facing a sombre decade of the ’eighties, a golden decade of the ’eighties is being predicted for the Republic. A senior editor of one of the USA’s most influential business magazines, a certain Mr. Forbes, recently paid a visit to South Africa and said on his departure—

There are experts who predict that South Africa, as the supplier of key minerals to the West, will play just as important a role at the end of this century as Saudi Arabia is now playing in the supply of oil to the Western countries.

There is increasing international recognition and understanding for South Africa’s growing status as an economic power. A few weeks ago 300 American businessmen, most of whom are millionaires, met in Johannesburg. They selected Johannesburg as a conference centre owing to the fact that South Africa is setting the pace as a gold producer and owing to its existing exceptionally favourable position among the world’s industrialized countries.

It is indeed true that South Africa has very good economic cards on the table which it is able to play on the world scene and on the African scene in particular. There are its rich natural resources, its strength on the energy front, its increasing food production, its extensive economic infrastructure, the increase in its exports and its successful policy of financial discipline. When we combine these factors, we find in them a winning combination which in the months which he ahead could ensure an increasing economic growth rate, greater employment, a strengthening currency, higher foreign reserves and greater prosperity for all levels of our population.

South Africa can muster these economic plus points to great effect in its master strategy. It is important that this be done quickly, well and correctly. In the first place we shall have to use our economic prosperity to solve our own pressing political issues, such as the creation of a better dispensation for all the peoples of this country. In the second place we shall have to utilize our economic prosperity to move outwards to our neighbours so that the hon. the Prime Minister’s ideal, the creation of a constellation of States in Southern Africa, may be realized.

The attraction to our neighbours of such an association of States is South Africa’s strong economy and that which South Africa offers to Southern Africa. The constellation of States which is being envisaged will eventually take shape principally as a result of the material advantages contained in it, advantages which cannot be scoffed at, for the signs are already there that the economic shoe has started to pinch everywhere in Africa and that they are beginning to look around them for economic assistance.

History has demonstrated that political power can only grow from the strong foundation of economic strength. That is why our strong economy gives us bargaining power. I should like to quote from a document all of us received in the course of the day. The speech of USA’s Deputy Foreign Secretary for African Affairs on 30 April in the American Congress is reported as follows—

This very important American spokesman tells us that South Africa’s power lies in its economy, that it gives us bargaining power. It is indeed true that South Africa’s economy has become the pivot on which everything turns today, and because this is the case, everyone who is involved in this economy has a great responsibility in determining the fate of South Africa and of Southern Africa.

It is of the utmost importance that we should keep our economy strong. One of the greatest impediments to the growth of our country is the shortage of engineers, physical scientists, chemists, geologists, technicians and managers; in other words, the lack of expertise which we have in South Africa. We have an oversupply of graduates in arts and literature, even among non-Whites, while we do not have people for the accelerated technology and the new requirements of the dynamic technical age we have entered. Whites in South Africa will have to realize one thing very quickly, viz. that the 17% of the Whites cannot meet the needs for skilled manpower of the total population of this country. To mention only one example, I want to point out that the non-Whites in South Africa already own more than 250 000 motor-cars. Surely it is therefore very logical that the non-Whites will have to receive training to at least be able to repair their own motor-cars. Why must the Whites do all this work? Our greatest immediate task is to prepare the millions of untrained Black people for the economy.

The Government and the private sector are already doing a great deal in this regard. But what we do need is a crash programme of short, intensive courses. The universities in our country will have to wrench themselves out of their mediaeval rut of arts and literature in order to make far greater provision for the technical explosion we are experiencing in South Africa. One of South Africa’s greatest riches is its massive labour potential. But then we shall rapidly have to teach these people manual skills for this is what we need. Skilled hands, White, Brown and Black, can make the decade of the ’eighties the golden years of the ’eighties for South Africa. If this happens, nothing will be able to stop this country from winning.

Inflation undermines economic growth. As I said a moment ago, we are principally saddled with imported inflation. What now remains for us is the question: What can we do to combat inflation? We can combat inflation by placing greater emphasis on the training and the more effective utilization of manpower, so that we can achieve greater productivity in South Africa. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I want to congratulate the hon. member for Bloemfontein North on his positive contribution, a contribution which did not, of course, pass unnoticed.

On this occasion I should like to examine the aspect of decentralization in somewhat greater depth. In every country of the world we find a concentration of the buying power in and around the cities, and a great concentration in and around the capitals of the world in particular. For example, London and Paris each have approximately 20% of the total population of their respective countries concentrated in those particular cities. In South Africa we have the largest concentration in the PWV area, which is, moreover, the economic heartland of South Africa. But to ensure that decentralized border industries will contribute to and stimulate homeland development, there are at present many concessions for industrialists, in terms of Government policy, by which they are encouraged either to move to border areas or to expand their activities in that direction. Despite the concessions available, there are, however, many other factors that prevent industrialists from being encouraged to move to decentralized areas. Two of these aspects are that the industrialist is moving away from his market and the outlets for his products and, secondly, he is moving away from the raw materials he needs for his manufacturing processes. These objections are not always valid for some decentralized areas, but in other areas they do in fact play a cardinal role. For example this is the case in the Eastern Cape and in the border area. The only major resource the Eastern Cape and the Border can offer, is their labour, and consequently industries that seek to establish themselves there have to be labour-intensive. With the exception of wool and pineapples in the border area, all raw materials will have to be imported for processing. Capital-intensive industries that enter areas with high labour concentrations will consequently not help to solve the local problems there.

It is for these reasons that concessions are so important in attracting specific functional industries to that area. Negative economic factors that militate against moving will consequently have to be eliminated, but once this has been done, and because the areas are adjacent to national Black States, and also because it is of importance that these areas should receive their rightful quota of industrial establishment, the industrialist is in fact faced with a second dilemma. The concessions in the homelands across the border are in many cases even better than the decentralization benefits the border industrialist can obtain. Infrastructures in the border industrial area are not being fully utilized and consequently the communities are labouring under the pressure of the tax burden of repaying the heavy capital cost involved in this. In some border industrial areas, particularly the border area east of the Ciskei, where there is an element of uncertainty as to the future of the area, and where many claims are being made on the area itself, attention is at present being given to a method of solving the problem. To what extent these claims are justifiable and to what extent they will be met, is not yet clear at this stage. What is clear to me, however, is that positive work is being done by the Van der Walt Commission, and I have the assurance that once consolidation in the area has been completed, there will be certainty about the future which will contribute towards making the area economically more viable. Everyone will know where a border is or will be and will plan his economic activities accordingly.

The Government has always accorded industrial decentralization a high priority, and it has instituted an investigation into the characteristic deficiencies in specific areas. For example, the University of Port Elizabeth was instructed to carry out research into the total set-up in the border area and publish a report. It is alleged that the Government already has this report and I believe that it is receiving the urgent attention it requires. The report has not yet been made available but I expect that there will be positive recommendations to counteract a real situation, and I also expect that maximum labour utilization will become a reality in East London and the border area within the foreseeable future. Shortly after the budget speech I read banner headlines in newspapers in Durban which indicated that the climate of economic revival which had been created had had such a tremendous impact there that there had been a phenomenal demand for employment opportunities. Unfortunately this phenomenon has not yet worked its way through to the areas of Port Elizabeth and East London.

Let me now refer to an article in the Oosterlig of 5 May this year, under the heading: “Ekonomiese groei in Port Elizabeth sorgwekkend.” The introductory paragraph reads as follows—

This statement comes from an article in the magazine Ontwikkeling, a publication of the city’s Afrikaanse Sakekamer, with reference to an investigation by Prof. J. H. Smith, a professor in economics at the University of Port Elizabeth. This learned professor points out, inter alia, that the Port Elizabeth area has only 3,5% of this country’s institutions and employs only 6,06% of its labour force, whereas it pays 6,5% of this country’s wages and salaries and produces 6,23% of this country net yield. This does not mean that the people working in that area are unproductive, for this interesting statistic is also brought to light in the report—

The phenomenon being experienced in the border area is comparable to this. A totally different approach will have to be developed to make this area viable and keep it that way. Quite apart from the granting of concessions, we shall have to examine how the various areas compare with a large concentrated area.

It is also part of Escom’s policy and managing principles that every business enterprise has to pay its operating costs and to provide its own capital requirements from its own tariffs. But then it is also true that the larger the number of consumers in the existing reticulation, the lower the unit tariff can be. Hence the difference in tariffs in the different regions. With the long distances and the integrated distribution of electricity, I wonder whether it is not time for tariffs to be equalized to a greater extent, even if not fully. Then the recent tariff increase will not be as unpopular as it is now. A standard percentage increase of tariffs on unequal scales has the effect that the difference does in fact become greater, and has a more negative effect in an area such as the border area.

It is specifically in an area such as the border area, which is geographically situated between the independent Black State Transkei and the self-governing national State Ciskei, that the unparalleled possibilities of economic interdependence are best realized and ought to be developed. This is the origin of the inevitable constellation of Southern African States which must be nurtured and strengthened. I advocate this cause accordingly. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I listened with interest to the speech of the hon. member for East London City, who talked about the Port Elizabeth area as well as the border area, both of which he knows well, as he lives in one and represents the other. I must say that we in these benches are very gratified that that hon. member now supports the hon. member for East London North, who made a plea for more reasonable electricity tariffs in the East London area and the corridor between Transkei and Ciskei to enable greater development to take place in those areas. His support is very, very welcome indeed and I hope that the hon. the Minister will listen to his voice, which is now joined to that of the hon. member for East London North. What one can glean from his speech—and it is a lesson we should learn—is that it is very difficult to induce economic growth when one does not have good, sound economic reasons for that growth but one does it for ideological reasons. He talked about decentralization, and one of the great difficulties we have had with decentralization in the past is that we have tried to decentralize along borders where there was no good economic reason why growth should take place. The failure of much of the decentralization programme in that area, and one thinks for example of the huge sum of money that have been poured into the Berlin area with very little result, makes one realize that it is very difficult to put ideologies first and good sound economic reasoning second. The result has been the failure of many of our decentralization programmes.

I also listened with interest to the speech of the hon. member for Bloemfontein North. He talked about the possibility of South Africa becoming the economic wonder of the world. He also talked about the free enterprise system. One has to realize that a free enterprise system involves many other things than just the matters he mentioned. It also involves things like the free movement of labour. One of the disappointments of the withdrawal of the Physical Planning and Utilization of Resources Act today is that we hope that there might be some improvement in terms of physical planning as far as the entrepreneurs’ ability is concerned to employ labour in the urban areas of South Africa. We must accept that in South Africa, like most other countries in the world, the majority of our growth is going to take place in areas that are already developed. All of us would like to see greater decentralization. We would like to see economic growth in South Africa spread out over a big area, but this will not altogether happen. We have to accept that there is going to be growth of industry in our urban areas, in our so-called White areas, and we must also accept that we are going to need more labour for that growth. If we are not going to inhibit growth, something will have to be done about the Physical Planning and Utilization of Resources Act, and I would commend it to the hon. the Minister that he talks to the hon. the Prime Minister and the other members of the Cabinet about the Physical Planning and Utilization of Resources Act, because he is not going to achieve the growth that he would like unless he does so.

I am pleased to say at this stage, and this is the first debate where I am able to do so, that I am glad that there is now a Minister who by virtue of his title has special responsibility for consumer affairs. This is a great step forward, because the record of the Government in so far as protection of the consumer in the past is concerned, has not been above reproach. In fact, it is a very bad record. I must also say that since the hon. the Minister took over this portfolio leading to the hope that greater stress was going to be placed on consumer protection, his record has not been very good either. I raised the matter of monopolies in general under the discussion on the Prime Minister’s Vote and more specifically the monopoly that was created when S.A. Breweries took over Intercontinental Breweries and a deal was made as far as wine interests were concerned.

Are those the only consumers that you want to protect?

They are, among others, some of the consumers I want to protect.

Is the hon. member for Florida against the beer drinkers?

Does the hon. member for Florida think it is a good idea for wine farmers to exist? Does he believe that the farmers should make wine?

Why do you put alcohol as priority No. 1? What about meat?

The hon. member seems to be arguing about it. I will come to the meat aspect. When the hon. the Minister’s predecessor last year introduced the Maintenance and Promotion of Competition Act, he committed the Government to a principle that monopolies for the most part should not be allowed to exist, because for the most part they were not in the interests of the consumer. Then we had the situation where the beer interests got together at the time that there was a vacuum, because the new Competition Board was not yet in operation. The matter went before the Cabinet where the proposed merger was considered, and the Government gave permission for the merger to go ahead. I still cannot understand why this was ever allowed to happen, because if one looks at the Act which was passed last year, it is quite clear that this arrangement whereby S.A. Breweries took over Intercontinental Breweries constituted—as the Act is worded—the acquisition of controlling interest as defined in the Act and a restrictive practice inasmuch as this arrangement, inter alia, by directly or indirectly restricting competition has or is calculated to have the effect of restricting the production or distribution of the commodity and enhancing or maintaining the price of any commodity. We all know what has happened in the beer market since that time. Prices have gone up and up. We also know what has happened as far as wine is concerned. The prices have also gone up. It always interests me that when it comes to price increases on wine the KWV appear to be an absolute law unto themselves. They actually have to get ministerial permission before they are granted an increase in the price of wine, but yet they always announce it pending the Minister’s permission. In this connection I should like to read from a newspaper cutting from The Cape Times of 15 January of this year, and this is typical of what happens every time there is an increase in the price of wine. I quote—

I repeat that the words “which in the past has always been granted”. It is quite clear and everybody knows that whenever the KWV goes to the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries he gives them whatever they ask. Therefore I am going to say to this hon. Minister that I hope that now that he is Minister of Consumer Affairs he is going to do something about it, because the monopoly which exists in the wine industry is a monopoly in terms of the legislation that is on our Statute Book, and it is now his responsibility to fight the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries to protect the consumer.

Do you want to give the farmers a lower price?

I am not necessarily suggesting that the farmer should get a lower price. I am suggesting that the essence of a free enterprise system is competition. Far too many things that that hon. member from the Mealie Broederbond says tend to do away with competition. He wants controls on everything. We know his attitude, and we reject it.

I want to ask the hon. the Minister a specific question. Is he or is he not going to use the powers that he has under the Maintenance and Promotion of Competition Act to let the Competition Board investigate the breweries and to investigate the wine industry? It is within his power and I ask him to do so. I should also like to know what his attitude is in regard to public interest in this matter. If these mergers were not in the public interest, it is up to the Competition Board to make recommendations to the hon. the Minister to do something about it.

There are also other monopolies, and one must realize that if we are ever going to control inflation in this country and have a free enterprise system, we have to restrict monopolies. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the arguments advanced by the hon. member for Orange Grove concerning the Government’s alleged approach to monopolises, are as ridiculous as the argument with which he commenced, viz. that we should not decentralize because this would ostensibly be for ideological reasons only. If the Opposition would only get it into their heads that decentralization in the South African context, even though it may seem ideological, is necessary for sensible economic development, South Africa could perhaps get a lot further. I accuse the Opposition of being one of the major factors causing South Africa to be saddled with the problem of an inadequately decentralized economic development, whereas such development is essential for our continued existence. They are the people who say from morning to night that the Black states are indigent areas. They are the people who are constantly saying that we are doing nothing there. We shall never be able to do anything and those states will remain poor appendages of South Africa as long as we do not decentralize. If those hon. members want to call this ideology, then they must simply swallow it. We call it plain common sense in the economic sphere.

But I want to discuss a subject about which, I must frankly say, I know very little. What does concern me, however, is that I am not the only one, and that throughout our country and throughout the world there are hundreds, thousands, perhaps millions of people who do not know enough about this subject, viz. the problem of inflation. Dr. Anton Rupert has called it our greatest enemy. We know that in simple language, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. We know that growth is being impeded as a result of the high inflation rate. Business enterprises cannot get off the ground. Company profits are eaten up. People do not have enough money to invest. We know the symptoms. Growth is terminated. We as politicians know that the Government is constantly being criticized. Instability in the political, economic and social spheres is created in people’s minds as a result of inflation. That is why it is vital that we should get this problem under control.

The Government and the public are really a type of suicide squad when we examine the concept “inflation”, because on the one hand the public keeps asking for more, and on the other, the Government—this is the case throughout the world—does not always close its eyes and ears to the public and it then hands out to an increasing extent. This concept of ask and give runs throughout our whole economy like a golden thread, and eventually we reach the point where everyone asks for more than they would like to give.

One of the major reasons why we are struggling with this problem is that there is tremendous ignorance among our people. I should like to ask the hon. the Minister to launch a comprehensive information effort. We must do this in the schools and use the medium of television and newspapers to inform our people more effectively in simple language about the essential nature of inflation.

The fact is that the word “inflation” in itself creates problems, because what is inflation? Every second economist explains it from a different angle. The Government explains it from its angle, the employer sees it from his angle and the employee sees it from his angle. Eventually, in the midst of all these debates and all these intricacies, we fail to come to grips with the central problem which we have to tackle on the road ahead. We say importation is one of the factors causing the high inflation rate in South Africa. Scientists say that if the overseas prices rise by 9%, the inflation scale rises by 2,9%, i.e. if the inflation rate is 10% and the prices of imported goods rise by 9% overseas, the inflation rate becomes 12,9%. We are told that fuel is responsible for the high inflation rate. We are told that administered prices are a factor in the high rate of inflation we are experiencing. We are told that labour bottlenecks are a factor in the inflation rate. We are also told that wages are a factor.

If all these factors are added together, the man in the street asks where he stands and what he can do about this problem. The Government then declares that it is prepared to do a few things to combat it. The Government says that it will curb its spending, train labour, abolish the surcharge on imports, prevent administered prices from rising so rapidly, etc. We also give a little medicine for the symptoms. The pensioners are struggling, and consequently we accommodate them to some extent. We subsidize food prices to alleviate the consumer’s burden.

In many respects South Africa is an inflation paradise. If we look at South Africa’s dependence on imports, we see that we shall continue to import high inflation from abroad. If we look at the question of oil prices, we see that there is a good chance that world oil prices will rise again. We can also look at one aspect which contributes enormously to inflation in South Africa, viz. the question of the narrowing of the wage gap. We then see that on the road ahead we shall not be able to evade a greater threat of inflation.

We are now saying that we want growth in South Africa. We base our economic projections on a strong growth rate. We say that we must show more growth than is the case at present. It must be sound growth based on productivity. This is the instrument with which we should like to combat inflation after the Government itself has taken various steps.

However, we are dealing with the psychology of inflation. What is the psychology of inflation? The psychology of inflation is part of man himself, man whose expectations always exceed what he is prepared to offer. In a certain sense all of us are guilty of this because, due to our human nature we are inclined to say that somebody else must sacrifice something, but we ourselves need not sacrifice anything. If one examines issues like production and wage increases in our economy from every angle, one sees that the human being is the central element in the economy, the human being who wants to use more than he wants to generate. While educating people, we must also tell them what we mean when we say that they must generate more. What is the point in telling a mineworker or a worker from Iscor that he has to increase his productivity? From eight o’clock to five o’clock he works untiringly and therefore he cannot work harder and produce more, even if he wants to. Increasing his production depends on the management of that business enterprise. It is entirely out of his hands. How does one tell an ordinary public servant who does administrative work that he must increase his production? Our education effort must consequently be aimed at informing people about what we mean when we say that productivity is the basis for growth. This just shows one how deeply one will have to delve as far as our people’s future education and knowledge are concerned.

Realization of the basic element of growth, viz. higher productivity is not a matter for the ordinary worker alone, but is in particular a matter for management and the Government. We need a team effort on the part of everyone in South Africa if we want to banish the spectre of inflation in this country. That is why I want to advocate very strongly that we must state our comprehensive educational objective in simple language to our people. When, like many other hon. members, I sit in front of the television and listen to our economists and other clever people discussing the economy, I ask myself how on earth the ordinary man who is part of the total production machine will ever understand what is going on. How can he ever see himself within the framework of the Government’s objective of bringing about higher productivity?

Accordingly I want to ask that we go all out to involve our pupils, young people, workers, administrative and professional people and managers in an extensive anti-inflation and productivity effort of this kind. I believe that if we were to succeed in explaining the nature and essence of this problem to each person in the simplest possible terms, and could urge him to achieve higher production, we in South Africa would indeed be able to generate more than we use.

There are many impediments on the road to growth that lies ahead of us. Two of the greatest impediments are the tremendous population growth and development backlog among the Black peoples. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Orange Grove provided the only little bit of excitement which came from the other side of the House today, because as always when he talks about agricultural matters or economic affairs, he bordered on the absurd all the time. He wanted to accuse the Government of having neglected the poor. He chose the example of the monopoly in the liquor trade.

Do you think the poor do not drink beer?

If there is one example of a luxury item in this country, then surely it is liquor.

[Inaudible.]

If he wants to say that we on this side of the House have neglected the poor and have not protected the consumer, I challenge him to come forward and say where exactly he believes exploitation is taking place, and to name companies and specific consumer goods that are involved. He also made certain snide remarks to the hon. member for Carletonville. I want to remind him that if it had not been for the stability brought about in the agricultural development of this country through various means and devices supported and initiated by this Government, the consumer in South Africa would have paid much more for food than he is paying today. A very simple analysis of world food prices will clearly show this very fact. So to accuse the hon. member for Carletonville of being a member of the mealie “Broederbond” and to suggest that this side of the House neglected the poor is silly politics … [Interjections.]

*If there is one thing on which all the leaders of all population groups in South Africa can agree it is the fact that tremendous demands are being made on the economy of South Africa. These are in many respects unique demands which are unequalled anywhere in the world. We have a foreign threat which forces us to spend vast amounts on our Defence Force. This is a direct expenditure as a result of the foreign threat against us.

Then there is the concealed effect of this threat. All of us know what it means to take our young men out of the economy for two years as ordinary consumers, as ordinary people participating in the normal processes of the economy. As national servicemen they are in many respects isolated from the economy. We know what it means in terms of a disruption of the economy, not only to have to give up those people, but also to have to give up other productive people from time to time.

For the purpose of my speech the most important factor, however, is the internal demand made on the economy. This is a two-dimensional demand, firstly with a vertical component which is the need to raise the standard of living of most people in South Africa dramatically. The second component, the horizontal component, is the demand which is made in affording more people work opportunities and this frequently forces the vertical component downwards, particularly in certain population groups.

Unfortunately it has happened as a result of historical and other factors in South Africa that the disparity which exists within the vertical component, viz. the standard of living enjoyed by various people, has developed along the dividing line of colour. In terms of the horizontal component as well there is still a tremendous disparity today, which can also in general be drawn along the dividing line of colour.

It is a fact that when the Whites came to South Africa they brought with them economic skills which they still display today. These skills pre-eminently equipped them with the ability to amass a wealth of riches, assets and capital in the shortest possible time. As a result of this process, just as happened elsewhere in Africa, the coloured people in South Africa, specifically the Black people, were virtually without exception reduced to the status of labourers. The same thing happened in other countries of the New World, but I just mention this in passing.

As regards the horizontal component of the population increase, it is a fact that we are dealing with the added momentum of a cultural phenomenon, i.e. that of family sizes. The result is that exceptionally large families still occur, particularly among coloured people. This momentum is still in progress, in a First World context where there is the best medical care for children and elderly people. Consequently there is both population stagnation as well as a population explosion which causes these disparities to perpetuate themselves. In the White community it is a fact that the size of the families and the total population has more or less stabilized, and this causes wealth to perpetuate itself within a family context. If things go well for a family they become richer because they do not distribute the wealth among many children. This wealth is able to pass from one generation to the next by inheritance. They can afford to pay for sophisticated training. In the Black community it is unfortunately a fact that the population growth results in an overall watering down of wealth which is generated within a family.

In respect of this inequality, which came about as part of a historic process, it is surely the task of every White person in this country, who enjoys the benefits of that cultural advantage and who has been able to amass wealth and opportunities for himself, to ensure that a better equilibrium is effected in this division. However, I will never, in all my life, advocate economic equality, because it is an absurdity. There cannot be economic equality in respect of the division of wealth, because it inveighs against the creation, for people across the dividing line of colour—I am not discussing coloured matters—do not have the same abilities. All we can hope for in this country is that the disparity which exists can be brought into line with the natural inequality which exists between people in terms of their God-given abilities. If we can achieve that in this country, we have achieved a fair economic system.

Mr. Chairman, the free enterprise system is the only system which will enable South Africa to cope with the tremendous demands which are being made on its economy. This, however, is not the free enterprise system which Marxism has caricaturized, but a free enterprise system which affords every individual the opportunity of using his most creative qualities, and at the same time, too, extending a hand of compassion to those standing on the bottommost rung of the ladder. Communism, on the other hand, is a system which reduces the finest creative qualities of mankind to a colourless drabness, and which reduces those standing on the bottommost rung of the ladder to an eternal parasitic existence.

I think that we in South Africa should convey this message to the Black leaders. Since we have this disparity in the economy, they find themselves in the exceptional and excellent position, if they take upon their shoulders the responsibilities of the free enterprise system, of conveying to their people that wealth can only be created by hard work and ingenuity, and that one’s wage demands should not amount to the Government being expected to help an individual carry out his personal spending programme, but that this should be determined by his own productivity. If there are leaders of this nature, leaders which will convey this message to their people and avail themselves of the opportunities which there are today, those leaders will be honoured by posterity. But if there are Black leaders who hold up to their people a Utopia, a thousand-year reign of peace, in which all will go well—a mere land of ease and plenty— without also informing their people of what their responsibilities are in regard to free participation and hard work, those leaders will in future be dishonoured and regarded with contempt by posterity.

I believe that we should in South Africa create other good opportunities for Whites, Blacks and Coloureds to flourish side by side in this system, and that this free enterprise system is the one area in which White, Black and Brown leaders can come to terms with one another, the one area in which we can make a start with a new era of prosperity and development in South Africa.

Mr. Chairman, earlier this afternoon the hon. member for East London North had a great deal to say about Escom. He raised a good number of points on which I should like to give him my support. Amongst other things, he discussed the generation of power for agriculture and said that it should be made cheaper.

When the Trade and Industry report appeared last year—hon. members will remember it—it actually dealt predominantly with financing Escom. Another report was then held out in prospect, a report concerning tariffs. Now I should like to put the same question as the hon. member for East London North. When we will be given a clear indication of how the tariffs are going to be made more uniform for agriculture and the other sectors in the country? I think this is a very serious question, to which everyone would like a reply.

I think it is also fitting for a few words to be said in this debate about the chairman who has already retired, Dr. Straszacker. Dr. Straszacker became a member of the commission 28 years ago, in 1952. He was chairman of the commission for 18 years, from 1962. I think the country owes a great deal to a person like dr. Straszacker, who retired at the beginning of this year. He accomplished a mammoth task. At the same time I also want to congratulate his successor, Mr. Smith, on his appointment. We all believe that he will accomplish equally good work for the country as his predecessor did.

When one talks about Escom and the provision of electricity, one actually accepts Escom without a second thought. When one casts one’s eyes across the plains at night, here in the Cape, on the Witwatersrand and elsewhere, one sees a sea of lights everywhere, and accepts that electricity is simply provided throughout the country without any trouble. One accepts that it should always be there. However, have any of us ever made inquiries about what a gigantic organization Escom really is? Escom provides 93% of all electricity in this country, and 60% of the electricity in the whole of Africa. If one takes this into account, one must come to the conclusion that Escom really is an economic giant in South Africa, a giant with assets totalling more than R7,5 billion. At the moment electricity represents 20% of the energy consumption, according to the report. However, it is also envisaged that by the year 2000, Escom will provide for 40% of the energy consumption of the country. I think this is a tremendous achievement.

One also accepts that where there is electricity there is development. In the Escom report the following is said in the caption under the photograph on page 12—

That is why I should also like to make a request for another remote area where we would very much like to have more electricity. I am referring to the far Northern Transvaal, particularly the Bosveld of the Northern Transvaal. Electricity there will mean a great deal of development for us, particularly in agriculture too. We have seen that the Department of Agricultural Credit and Land Tenure has done its utmost to get people to occupy those border farms. If we can provide more electricity to those areas on the border, we will be able to get more people to occupy these farms, farms that can be cultivated intensively. Then economic development could also take place there. Those farms will then form a buffer for us. We also know that the agricultural industry there will be given a tremendous push, because since fuel has become extremely expensive these days, the farmers are all opposed to use diesel oil for their pumps, electricity supply, transport and other energy requirements. In the third place, providing power there will provide development for the homelands. I do not think any of us would deny that we are going to encounter problems in future if we do not take an in depth look at the development of the homelands throughout the Republic, and this can be done to a large extent by providing power.

As the report puts it too, Escom is a very large provider of employment. Escom itself stimulates the South African economy at all times and provides employment, both directly and indirectly, to 140 000 people in this country. Escom employees 44 000 people directly. If there is development in the form of power stations in the far Northern Transvaal, it would also be a source of employment for the people there. We all know that specialized workers are very necessary for Escom, for instance mechanical engineers, electrical engineers and other engineers, but there is more than enough unskilled labour in the far Northern Transvaal, and those people actually have a very good training potential.

We accept that Escom has vast development programmes. It is mentioned in the report that Escom has to plan as much as ten years in advance for further development programmes. I see that a power station is also being planned for Ellisras. I think the name of the power station is the Ilanga power station. Cannot the hon. the Minister give us an indication of when a start will be made on building that power station? In the second place, are there perhaps other such power stations in the pipeline? I am thinking in particular of the Springbok flats, the Pietersburg area and of the extreme north near Waterpoort. Of course, coal is no problem in those areas. The whole Bushveld has more than enough minerals of all types. I think that this is another good reason why it is necessary to provide more power in the far North.

To come back to the provision of power to the platteland, I just want to quote from the report (page 20)—

I want to conclude by saying that I think it would be a very good step forward for the sake of the survival and safe-guarding of the Republic of South Africa, if Escom could undertake development in the far North too which would further stimulate other development there.

Mr. Chairman, I want to begin by thanking the hon. members for their contributions. Since I am handling this Vote for the first time in this House, I feel that I must make a few remarks at this stage about events during the past year.

There has been a great deal of talk about corporations, but I should like to mention a few people’s names here because they should be mentioned, since they have been serving public corporations with very great efficiency over many years. These are people who are well-trained and who came out of the depression, if I may put it like that, and who, as public servants, are our back-bone today.

We lost the services of Mr. R. F. J. Teichmann this year when he retired as director-general of the SABS. We also lost Dr. Straszacker at Escom as well as Mr. Kitshoff of the IDC. Death deprived us of Dr. Chris van der Merwe-Brink. He had been president of the CSIR. I cannot allow this opportunity to pass without first wishing the gentlemen who have retired a happy retirement and thanking them for the work they have done in the interests of South Africa, its economy, its science and in many other respects. With the death of Dr. Van der Merwe-Brink we lost one of our most brilliant scientists and administrators and one of our foremost industrialists, professors of science, and scientific experts. We wish to offer our condolences to his family.

I also want to refer to my predecessor, who did excellent work over five years. It was a very difficult period for South Africa’s economy. He took over the work at a time when inflation as assuming enormous proportions because of demand inflation, which was somewhat different from the inflation we have today. He never spared himself. He showed initiative and he initiated legislation in co-operation with the Department which was placed on the Statute Book to help us to achieve to a large extent our economic objectives which are necessary in order to regulate a free and civilized economy. On the whole we agree with that and I want to thank him for it.

Quite a number of members who took part in the debate talked about matters which are the subject of discussion everywhere today, matters such as inflation, electricity problems, high tariffs, an iron-ore shortage which may arise, decentralization, rationalization of public corporations and the idea of a constellation of states. I shall not reply to every member individually in regard to all these matters, but I shall deal with some of these matters in general terms and I shall try in the process to reply to hon. members as far as I can.

†In the first instance I want to thank the hon. member for East London North for the way in which he started the debate. I could not agree with him more that South Africa, with all its resources, its strategic importance and its large labour resources, although perhaps unskilled, has certain comparative advantages which I agree we should try to use to the best of our ability. He also spoke about creating job opportunities, and in this respect I also agree with him. But, I did not agree with him in other instances. As far as his problems with Escom and the supply of electricity in the East London area are concerned, I will return to that aspect during the course of my general remarks later on. As far as export areas are concerned I can only tell him that this matter was examined by a committee some time ago, during 1978 or 1979. They came to the conclusion that it is not feasible to institute a regional free trading zone. As far as they could find facts to substantiate their findings, Taiwan was a country where it did work, but Taiwan has a very large market in nearby Japan as well as an over-abundance of labour. It did work in Taiwan because Japan acted as an industrial agent that could provide a very big market. The Government fully considered the report of this committee, but decided rather to provide rebate facilities as far as customs, tariffs and so on are concerned. We feel that this will provide the same kind of relief as a free trading zone would. The Government did not take this decision lightly, but did confer and consult with trade and industry, and with the exception of the East London Chamber of Commerce everybody agreed that it was not feasible. However, that is not the end of the story. Later on in the debate I will point out that we are looking at an industrial strategy for South Africa and at the regional problems. We are looking at that in a completely new light, and we have been doing a lot of work over the past few months. But I shall come back to that later. The regional “retardedness” of this area is also something which received attention. Therefore, if the hon. member will be a little patient, I shall again refer to that later.

The hon. member also spoke about electricity and Escom.

*The hon. member for Potgietersrus also spoke about that, and to some extent he agreed with the hon. member for East London North. Generally speaking, Escom is one of the country’s biggest spenders of capital, and it is quite right that the Government should ensure that resources are being utilized in the most economic way. The capital priorities committee which the hon. member has in mind has already been appointed. For the big public corporations there is a capital priorities committee which in the first place advises the Minister of Finance and with which the Department of Industries co-operates closely. It is true that the Board of Trade and Industries has investigated the tariff structure of Escom and certain other aspects of Escom’s policy. They have made certain recommendations, but nowhere did they find that this big public corporation was inefficient. Nevertheless, it was decided that Escom should undertake a productivity study, and this will be done. The Government has accepted that. Even though there was no visible reason for it, the Government nevertheless felt that it had a duty towards the public in this regard. The same was done in the case of Iscor, and these productivity studies are in progress at the moment.

The hon. member also spoke about uniform electricity prices. Even the Board of Trade and Industries does not believe that it will ever be possible, generally speaking, to arrive at uniform electricity prices. What can be done, however, is to pool the central generating costs and perhaps the interest on loans as well. These amounts can be pooled, but then it will not necessarily be for transmission and distribution as well. After all, Escom is subject to statutory provisions and has to recover its costs. It does not have any capital of its own. It has to find it. It has to find it by borrowing on the domestic market, through its tariffs and by borrowing on the overseas market. The Government has also accepted this recommendation by Escom, i.e. that the pooling of central development costs is something which can in fact be gradually introduced.

Then the hon. member also referred to the excessive profits which Escom is allegedly making. The position with Escom is— and the hon. member really should know this—that it has to cover its costs; otherwise we shall have problems. Precisely because we kept down the prices too much over the years, at a stage when we were suppressing the economy, as it were, in order to bring down inflation, Escom’s problems with capital have constantly grown. That is why there have been unusual increases during the past year. But all the increases are still within the inflation figure. Therefore I do not believe the hon. member’s charge in this regard is justified.

†The hon. member also drew some comparisons between the border area of East London and certain European countries. I do not want to argue with him about that but, generally speaking, I think that electricity costs in South Africa compare favourably with those of overseas countries.

In some areas, yes.

We have long distances and a sparsely populated country, with only approximately 18 or 19 people per square mile. Therefore the cost of supply would in any case be higher than it would be in a densely populated country.

Then there was also an allegation with regard to exorbitant tariffs.

Line charges.

In a certain sense I have already replied to what the hon. member said. As far as the problem of the farmers is concerned, we are trying to solve that. Information has to be made available to me and offers have to be made. We are thinking of the possibility of forming agricultural co-operatives to supply electricity in the rural areas subject to very strict conditions, as has been done in America. These possibilities exist, and agricultural leaders are investigating them. I have already had talks with them in this connection. Strangely enough, the region to which the hon. member referred was the one in which the greatest problems arose. Therefore steps are being taken in this regard as well. It is not something we are simply ignoring.

†The hon. member for Amanzimtoti spoke about inflation. I shall come back to that later. He spoke about the CSIR and then mentioned a “national production research programme”. I think the hon. member himself provided the answer he wanted in regard to the CSIR. That is that companies should look at their own structure and their own productivity. The CSIR is there to aid them, but not to undertake these investigations for them. The sugar industry succeeded in doing just that. So, as far as I am concerned, the hon. member for Amanzimtoti answered his own question. I do not think I can agree with him that it is the job of the CSIR.

*The hon. member for Newcastle discussed and explained the functions of the department. He also spoke about rationalization, to which I shall come back later. He also discussed Iscor, and I thank him for doing so, because he had something positive to say about Iscor, as we ought to have, because this is a big corporation which already has R3 250 million as a basis for its existence. That corporation has gone through difficult times. This year, for the first time, there is the prospect of a profit. Some people are trying to say what the profit will be, but I should prefer not to do so.

The hon. member for Klerksdorp made a fine contribution by explaining what the SABS does. Because of quality control and the investigations undertaken in South Africa in that connection, the scientific way in which it is done and the way in which it is co-ordinated, and the fact that these scientists have built up a very good relationship with the outside world, meetings of the International Standardization Committee are being held in South Africa this year, something which has never happened before as far as I know. Quality and the image presented by this bureau are of great benefit to us abroad. I am proud of the SABS and the work which is being done there, because it includes such a wide spectrum of science.

I felt I should say something about inflation, since many hon. members spoke about it. It is true that inflation is causing concern among us all today. We had many problems in 1975, and now we are having problems once again. However, we must remember that the objectives of the economy are sometimes contradictory. If one wants to achieve growth, especially in a country like South Africa, one must always bear in mind the danger of inflation. We have certain structural problems in our economy. Growth is accompanied by the development of bottlenecks, and when bottlenecks arise, a demand develops which leads to a price rise. Therefore one should see the inflation problem in the right perspective and then try to see what one can do about it through research and with the help of people who have already been successful. I must tell hon. members that the Western world has tried all kinds of plans for combating inflation. However, what do we find? At the recent meeting of the International Monetary Fund, Bums said that the world seemed simply to have accepted inflation as something which they cannot solve and which they will just have to live with. However, this does not mean that we also have to live with it or accept it, but we must acquaint ourselves with the problems and then see whether there is anything we can do about them.

I want to point out some structural characteristics which are causing problems. Hon. members know that in the first place, South Africa has a relative shortage of capital, especially risk capital. In a certain sense we also have technological problems because we do not have all the skilled workers we should have. If the economy is to grow to the stage where it will be able to provide job opportunities for all, shortages will begin to develop as far as trained people are concerned. They are simply not available. Even at this stage, where the economy is showing a growth rate of 5%—at least, we think that is the growth rate—we are beginning to experience shortages as far as the more skilled professions are concerned. Now that the economy is entering a stage of accelerated growth, we must be very wary of inflation. Inflation is with us. A second factor we must bear in mind—perhaps not everyone will agree with me about this—is the great difference between the incomes of our population groups. For the last few years we have been following a policy which is intended to narrow the wage gap. We have not always related this to productivity. We have not always thought of it. I am not at all opposed to this, but it is recognized to be a factor which has to a certain extent encouraged inflation.

A third structural characteristic is of course the openness of our economy. We have an enormous mutual import and export trade. This makes a country very vulnerable when the economies of its trade partners are in a state of recession. This is the danger we are now facing again. The importation of crude oil has been extremely expensive. Recently we have been importing capital equipment, industrial raw materials and intermediary materials at an enormously high cost. All these things have served to increase costs.

A final factor we must bear in mind, of course, is the question of food production. We all know that the nature of agriculture in this country is uncertain. The farmer has to contend with an uncertain climate; sometimes there are droughts and sometimes there are floods. If one wants to maintain a reasonable measure of price stability with regard to food, one needs an aid to enable one at least to counteract price fluctuations. This sector also has to contend with the rising cost of fuel and of imported implements and equipment. Many of these things come from beyond our country’s borders. Therefore it is not an easy task to combat inflation. We must devote all our energies to it. This is why my colleague and I deliberated about the matter last year and produced a six-point plan which he has now supplemented with further monetary and fiscal measures, where he is allowing the rand to float upwards and where he has abandoned the import levy of 7½%, etc. He has also taken a few other measures with regard to the banks. In addition, we have agreed that we have a duty to limit public expenditure to a minimum, i.e. the financial discipline must be there and the creation of money must be restricted to the absolute minimum. Administered prices and price-controlled articles constitute the other problem. This is where the State suffers. We should only allow these when there are inevitable cost increases and when we can absorb them, for if one accepts the responsibility for price control—which applies to only 15% of our commodities—one cannot refuse a person a certain profit, otherwise one will end up by having no production at all any more. As far as this is concerned, therefore, we are obliged to allow prices to rise, but within the bounds of what we can absorb. Of course a certain degree of self-control is expected of all. Whether we can expect this in the present times, with the mental attitude that prevails, I largely doubt, but we nevertheless have to appeal to commerce and industry to produce more, and to exercise more self-control in the demands that they make. This will enable us to contain inflation to a large extent. Management efficiency and productivity—all these matters—we have also taken into consideration. When speaking about wage and salary increases, too, one has to think of inflation.

What is also very important, however, and hon. members have referred to this, is the training of our manpower. I have every hope that our Manpower Commission, which has already begun its work, will help us a great deal in this respect, so that we shall be able, and someone has said this here, to produce crash programmes through which we can train people at the middle and top levels as fast as possible, because this could remove those bottlenecks in the sense that higher productivity could reduce unit costs. Even if all these measures found favour with people, we would still be faced with the problem that the Western world, which is trying almost anything, has not altogether succeeded in defeating inflation. Therefore I have asked the Economic Advisory Council once again to make an in-depth study of inflation as a matter of urgency. We have called together the private sector, the departmental experts and other experts. They write as follows in a report—

This gives hon. members an indication of the direction in which we shall have to think. We shall have to search for the fundamental cause in these directions and we shall have to see whether our competition is healthy. This is why it was decided earlier this year that the Economic Advisory Council would scrutinize this matter once again after a thorough study, particularly in order to see whether we cannot take measures to promote healthier competition. The Competition Board, which came into operation on 1 January, can play an extremely important role in this respect.

With these few words I wanted at least to indicate the problem of inflation and what we are trying to do. I do not think we can launch a tremendous campaign against inflation at this stage. I do not think we can do that. We should rather take measures to counteract inflation, because the Economic Advisory Council also feels that a new campaign, like the one in 1975, when we decided on an anti-inflation campaign, would not be right at this stage, because we are not yet faced with demand inflation. However, our economy is not growing quite as we would like it to. But we should not see the red light at this early stage. We are faced with cost-push inflation, which comes from behind, so we must approach the problem in a different way.

†The hon. member for Walmer also referred to the question of inflation. He made a very constructive speech. As usual, he referred to Port Elizabeth and the motor industry. I do not blame him for that. He spoke about hire-purchase and the lengthening of the repayment period, etc. I noted everything he said. As far as Port Elizabeth is concerned, and the question of specific concessions to that area, I believe the hon. member will have to exercise a little patience. I will probably be able to give him some idea tomorrow of what we really envisage for the South African industrial strategy as a whole at this stage. There is still a lot of work to be done, however. The hon. member also spoke about semis works and the possible shortage of iron ore. I think I have already referred to the latter.

No, you have not.

Have I not? According to experts we need not have any fears at the present moment. For many decades to come we will have no problems in this regard, because we will have ample quantities of high quality iron ore. Moreover, we also have medium-grade ore on which we can fall back later, should the need arise. Therefore the hon. member need not worry about that. This is as far as my information goes.

The hon. member also referred briefly to a development bank. I might touch on that later, although that is not really my area of jurisdiction, as the hon. member probably knows. I might, however, just touch on it because it links up to a certain extent with the rationalization process of our corporations and with the idea of a constellation of States, to which some hon. members referred.

*The hon. member for Bloemfontein North gave what I considered to be a balanced exposition of his optimistic view of the South African economy, compared with a world around us which is on the brink of a recession, or is already experiencing a recession, countries which are gradually turning their eyes and their minds to South Africa after the events in Afghanistan, after the incidents in the Persian Gulf and all the other things now taking place around us. In this respect we are particularly fortunate. During my visit of 10 days to foreign countries I found that these people were now eager to make overtures to South Africa. Well, their motives are their own, of course. We assume that they are sincere. They are beginning to realize that there is a part of the world where the people are able to maintain law and order and to achieve economic growth in spite of the fact that they are only 4,5 million to 5 million in number and that they also accept responsibility for 25 million or 20 million people. That is why I have received quite a number of visits from overseas industrialists recently. I would not like to say how many, but investments of hundreds of thousands of rands in this country may be just around the corner.

When we discuss the other matters later, we can come back to the question of the constellation of States. I am very glad that the hon. member for Bloemfontein North took our neighbours intoonsideration in this respect. The way in which we can make a success of political co-operation in South Africa is basically determined by the needs of the people. Naturally, people’s basic needs are accommodation, clothing and food. Ultimately these will be the decisive factors. This will be the method, the procedure, we shall follow to rectify this matter which will determine whether we shall be successful in this or not.

The hon. member for East London City also made a fine contribution about decentralization. I have already promised that I shall devote some time to that tomorrow and say a few things about it.

†The hon. member for Orange Grove spoke about the consumers and immediately jumped to the liquor trade and monopolies. The Government did not initiate this or go into it off its own bat. The Government is indeed acutely aware of the adverse effects of monopolies as against the benefits of sound competition.

*Although the Government believes in the free market system, a monopoly is not necessarily an evil in itself. We have many monopolies in fields where the free market mechanism cannot function because only a single enterprise is involved. Sometimes it is the State that has to act. No one else can or wants to do it. I am not referring to this specific case. I am referring to the principle that a monopoly per se does not have to be an evil. Sometimes one has to allow it. However, the State believes in free enterprise, free competition, and for that reason the necessary legislation has been placed on the Statute Book. For that reason, too, we have machinery to ensure that if there is any suspicion that the consumer is being prejudiced because of unfair competition, the matter can be thoroughly investigated.

Lip service.

The State appointed a commission in 1967, and this matter was thoroughly investigated at that time. Hon. members know that the Maintenance and Promotion of Competition Act was placed on the Statute Book last year and that its basic function is “to provide for the maintenance and promotion of competition in the economy, for the prevention or control of restrictive practices and the acquisition of controlling interests in businesses and undertakings, and for matters connected therewith”. That is the long title of the Act.

There are many laws, but you are doing nothing.

That hon. member is not doing anything either. He is just sitting there talking. I am explaining to him that … [Interjections.] If only the hon. member would listen. What does the hon. member want me to do? Am I to leave? I have my work to do. I have to explain why that hon. member’s view is not correct.

You like monopolies; that is all.

I am not here to conduct a dialogue. In terms of that Act, which came into operation on 1 January, the Competition Board has a principal task, and that is to act in close consultation with the private sector and to lay down guidelines for a healthy competition policy. It has to investigate when investigation is necessary, sometimes of its own accord and sometimes when requested to do so by the Minister. The board has already commenced its activities and its investigations are already under way. I hope it will make a major contribution, and I believe that it will.

This brings me specifically to this recent take-over in the liquor industry. The Government did not have the right under any legislation to prevent any take-over. There is no law to prevent a take-over. However, the people explained that they wanted to rationalize the industry in this way. The Government only laid down conditions. Some people may think the conditions were not strict enough. That is something we may differ about. However, the Government gave its consent subject to certain conditions. The Government had no legal right to refuse. The decision was taken. But the board’s investigation of the liquor industry, including this particular aspect, is continuing. Therefore these people are not exempt from an investigation. They are proceeding to rationalize their industry, as they call it, and perhaps it will work out well. However, problems may arise. The Competition Board is conducting an investigation which it had already begun before these developments took place. We had to pass legislation in this House to give them the right to proceed with the investigation. As far as that is concerned, therefore, I think the hon. member has no real cause for concern. I think that in this case the Government has again done what it could and should have done.

As far as the hon. member for Innesdal is concerned, I just want to say that as I have already said, the Economic Advisory Council feels that we should not initiate a campaign against inflation at this stage. This is a very complex problem at the moment. We are between the devil and the deep blue sea. On the one hand there is cost-push. The Government’s first priority is growth. When there is growth, demand inflation starts all over again. A campaign was waged against demand inflation some time ago. We can now launch a campaign against cost-push inflation. In this connection I have pointed to a few issues. I hope the hon. member understands that. We shall go on wrestling with this problem. It will receive further consideration in the course of this month.

In my opinion, the hon. member for Florida gave a very fine exposition of the problems inherent in our population composition. He pointed out that we had elements of a Third and a First World in our country and he said we should get the interests of these two together and absorb the imbalance into the economy in some way. It is a good thing that he mentioned this. It is also a very good thing that he once again pointed out the enormous difference there is between communism and the free market system.

Reference has also been made to the rationalization of corporations. I shall come back to that on a later occasion.

†Members on both sides of the House have referred to the idea of the constellation of States. That, too, I might just touch on tomorrow. I do not wish to say any more at present.

Mr. Chairman, I should first of all like to respond to what the hon. the Minister has said at the beginning of his speech where he referred to the former Minister in charge of this portfolio, who I am very pleased to see is in the House this evening. The hon. the Minister said that this colleague had held this portfolio during five extremely difficult years in the economy of South Africa. I agree with him. I agree that the former Minister had a very difficult task.

He even rode a bicycle at one stage.

I should like to state my interest right at the outset by saying that I am a sugar farmer. The hon. the Minister now administers the sugar industry, and I should like to say to the former hon. Minister that those of us directly involved in the industry have really appreciated the attitude with which he approached many of our problems. We did not always agree with him, as we do not always agree with him here across the floor of the House. He did, however, approach this industry in an enthusiastic and energetic manner, and I should like to take this opportunity to say to him that those of us who, like myself, are involved in this industry, really appreciated the approach he took.

I should like to raise a subject which was debated in 1978 during the debate on the Sugar Bill of that time. I refer to the Price Stabilization Fund. I do not know whether the new hon. Minister is aware of how exactly this Price Stabilization Fund operates, but basically it comes into play during times of high production and high world prices when there are funds available in excess of the cost of production and the return on capital which is allowed to the various sectors of the sugar industry under the price formula which is agreed upon by the Government and the sugar industry. Way back in 1974, when times were good in the sugar industry, the Price Stabilization Fund built up to a level of just about R100 million. It was at that time when not the former hon. Minister, but his predecessor, made the mistake of reducing the domestic price of sugar, thereby cutting off the funds flowing into the Price Stabilization Fund.

I believe that that decision has had detrimental effect on the industry right up to this day. I believe we must learn from experience, because it was shortly after that decision was taken that the world price of sugar crashed and the industry entered a period of restriction on production. Just at the present moment when we were hoping that we were coming out of this depression because the world price had now climbed to just over £300 sterling—this was the daily price quoted in London during the last few days—we find the industry suffering a tremendous drought. Some areas are experiencing the worst drought they have suffered in 100 years. However, the point I want to put to the hon. the Minister is that during the debate in 1978 the former hon. Minister made the following statement in regard to the Stabilization Fund. He said (Hansard 1978, col. 1579)—

I want to tell the hon. the Minister that I agree wholeheartedly with that statement, and I sincerely hope that the present hon. Minister will also agree to the principle that the Stabilization Fund should be allowed to build up in good years to at least the equivalent of one year’s value of the sugar crop, before there is any tampering with the money flowing into it. I say this because we have learnt an extremely expensive lesson. I was pleased to see a report in the Press to the effect that the hon. the Minister recently toured the sugar industry and has seen for himself the effects of the disastrous drought which has hit certain areas. I sincerely hope that some way or other the effects of this drought are going to be alleviated. I do not know how the hon. the Minister can do it, but had we had a really substantial Stabilization Fund, possibly the industry—and I do not purport to speak for the industry—would have been able to use some of that money at this time to alleviate the situation in those drought-stricken areas. I sincerely hope the hon. the Minister will bear this in mind.

I was most interested to hear what the hon. member for Innesdal and one or two other hon. members had to say about inflation and the hon. the Minister’s response to that. I am extremely pleased to hear what the hon. member for Innesdal had to say, and that is that we must try and get across to our people some of the basic causes of inflation. He admitted that he did not know much about it. I suppose I, too, must admit that I do not know much about it. In response to other hon. members the hon. the Minister said that the economic council is looking into this problem, but I want to put it to the hon. the Minister that in the past we have had some of the best economic brains in the country working on inflation, but they did not solve the problem. So what is really the cause of all this? We know that some nations, such as West Germany and Japan, are able to lick inflation. Why can they do it?

Not any longer.

Not any longer? Well, if they cannot do it any longer, we must ask the reason why. I have my own views on this.

What about America?

I believe one of the main reasons for inflation is that people believe they can spend more than they earn. Let us look at this from a practical point of view. I think we must get it across to our people that if I, as an individual, the man in the street, accept all the H.P. facilities and all the credit cards—I received one in the post today, and I am sure we all did—it would lead to a sorry state of affairs. The man in the street is bombarded with opportunities to borrow money. But what happens when a member of the public cannot pay all of his accounts at the end of the month? He ends up in a debtors’ court. If I, as a farmer or businessmen, borrow money, spend more than I am earning and find, when I balance or try to balance my books at the end of the year, that I cannot, what is the result? The firm goes bankrupt and ends up in a bankruptcy court. But what happens when the Government of a nation allows its people and allows itself to spend more than is being earned?

What is your solution?

At the end of the year, when the Minister of Finance tries to balance his books, the nation does not go bankrupt; all that happens is that the Government prints more paper money, so the value of the rand drops. That is the way the books are balanced.

What is your solution?

The solution is that I believe that all of us, the man in the street and the Government, must learn to live within our means. That is the solution. We have got to get back to understanding that one cannot spend more than one is earning.

I agree.

The hon. member for Wonderboom agrees with me. I believe this is not a political issue and it should not be a political issue. It is something which we in this House should get very clear in our minds. This hon. member, who opposes me politically, agrees with me now, and I find it encouraging that he should agree with me. If we do not give the lead to the people, who will? Maybe the reason why Western Germany is starting to lose out today is that their politicians are promising the people more than the nation can afford. That is what destroyed Great Britain economically. That is why the USA today has prime bankrates of 20% per annum. It is because credit and still more credit was available for everybody but now the moment of truth has arrived. Until now, when the nation tried to balance its books, the only way they could balance them was by printing paper money and thereby lowering the value of their currency. I believe it is the politicians in the first place who must put this right. If we in this House can reach concensus on these matters, then I believe we can lick inflation. I believe that one of the reasons why the Western World is suffering from bouts of inflation is the socialist thinking which prevails in so many quarters. Politicians in the past have promised the people certain social welfare services and benefits but, as Margaret Thatcher is now finding, she has to cut out all these services in order that the economy of her country may recover. I believe this “welfare state” attitude is one of the basic causes of inflation throughout the Western World today. However, I believe we can lick it.

Mr. Chairman, may I ask the hon. member to make reference to the Government’s growth in the budgets of the last few years?

Yes. In my Second Reading speech on the Appropriation Bill I congratulated the hon. the Minister of Finance for having disciplined government spending and maintained a tight rein on the money supply. But that is something that we in these benches called for the last six or seven years. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I listened attentively to the hon. member for Amanzimtoti. With all due respect, what he said about the sugar industry is beyond me, and he and the hon. the Minister will have to argue that out further. What he said about inflation was very interesting. What I find interesting, is that in this debate on industries we were able to meet one another on such a constructive level out of the political arena and exchange ideas on this matter, ideas which were really constructive, when viewed from any angle. With regard to the question which the hon. member for Florida asked concerning the total action of the joint Opposition during the budgets over the past few years, one wonders whether the hon. member for Amanzimtoti, as a member of the joint Opposition, should not have availed himself of the opportunity to ask for a greater sense of responsibility among all sections of the Opposition when it comes to budgets.

The theme that I should like to raise tonight, is one that I want to describe as that of a total strategy. Of course, I realize that it is impossible to deal with an idea like this extensively within the space of ten minutes and that is why I should like to approach the matter from an alternative, practical viewpoint and enumerate a few ideas, ideas which I believe may perhaps be considered in order to make our economy more supple and streamlined. If one takes a look at our present situation, we are in the fortunate position that, in contrast to the rest of the world, the Republic of South Africa is on the crest of a wave of prosperity at the moment. I quote from The Argus of 11 February 1980—

We read in Suid-Afrika Stigtingsnuus that Southern Africa is a prosperous zone. The interesting point that they make there, is that all the Africa States surrounding and bordering on the Republic are those which are the most prosperous in comparison to the rest of Africa. In contrast to this we see that the rest of the Western World is entering something of a recession. The USA in particular is entering a fairly serious state of recession. With regard to the Third World, we read in The Citizen of 30 April this year, under the heading “OAU Chief says Africa is dying”—

One hopes that it will not be necessary for Africa to die before it can be born again to make a positive contribution for its people. One also hopes that, instead of adhering to political ideologies, it will return once again to the practical realism of the economy. One hopes too that that realism, with the assistance which South Africa gives Africa, is on the point of breaking through, so that Africa and all its people can enjoy the benefit of it. If we look at the basic problems that we are experiencing in our country at the moment, we see that there are four of them. There is low productivity. In this regard there are still good signs in South Africa, and we see that, as early as in 1978, a report appeared in the Press under the heading “The US adopts South African productivity test”—

We note that we will have to try to improve our low productivity in this country by increasing our standards of education. On the other hand, we have not done so badly. I quote what Steven Mulholland said, in an article in the Sunday Times—

Therefore, we are not as badly off as we think. A second problem is the question of a lack of employment opportunities. However, we are also in a much more advantageous position in this respect in the sense that we have one of the highest growth rates in the world at the moment. Thirdly, one of the biggest problems that we have, is our lack of knowledge of the advantages of capitalism as against Marxism. Fourthly, there is the question of inflation. Inflation has already been discussed very thoroughly here tonight. I should like to avail myself of the opportunity to say that I believe if we want to follow a total strategy, and bind ourselves to the free market system, as we have already done, we must put everything in motion that could assist in promoting the economy and making it more supple and flexible. I should like to make the following proposals in this regard. The first point that I want to make, is that I believe that we should eliminate unnecessary, obsolete legislation. In this regard I should like to refer to the Sunday Times of 6 April 1980, in which we read that a group has now been founded, apparently as a result of the hon. the Prime Minister’s Carlton conference, which is known as Sincom. Sincom is investigating this very situation. They have already discovered that at this stage there are approximately 4 000 laws and statutes in South Africa that impede the free mechanism of commerce. I hope that this report will reach us in the near future. However, there is something that bothers us, viz. that this report is going to be more socio-political than based exclusively on facts. If this is the case, it will be a pity.

The second point that I want to raise, is that we must try to synchronize our transport with our shopping hours, for instance. The staggering of shopping hours is my third point too. We must link up the staggered shopping hours, together with transport, to the suppleness of our economy and the flexibility of our trade so that we can obtain the most productivity out of what we put into it, instead of the present situation, in which there is in fact a negative effect in some respects. Now I want to come to the next point. I want to ask the hon. the Minister, and other hon. Ministers who may possibly be of assistance in this regard, as seriously as I can, to put everything possible in motion to eliminate unnecessary paperwork, which is assuming vast proportions at the moment. This is a factor which can impede commerce tremendously and which can also cause production to drop.

Then I want to refer to the question of the unnecessary requirements laid down by certain local authorities which have developed into small kingdoms. I think it is time that we should take a look at this aspect, since we are not involved in the rationalization of the Public Service. I know it cannot be done at once, but it must nevertheless be done as quickly and as radically as possible, to follow up this rationalization.

The most important point that I want to raise, is that we should try to accomplish the transfer of knowledge with regard to the free economy system to our Coloured and Black people as quickly as possible, and that together with this we should bring the advantages of capitalism above those of Marxism, within a partnership context, to the attention of all. I want to ask whether it is possible for this idea to be propagated as a by-product for youth preparedness for all schools, Black, Coloured and White, in a purposeful attempt to bring it home to our people that the advantages of capitalism and the free trade system, are far superior to those of every other system. I think if we can bring it home to the young people in our schools, particularly our Black youth, that there are places and opportunities for everyone in this country, and that our free market system has many advantages—in this regard political factors which make it difficult for us to do so at this stage, must be disregarded— we shall be taking a positive step.

Mr. Chairman, I associate myself entirely with the remarks made by the hon. member for Vasco. I also support the requests that he made, and wish him luck with them.

However, I want to devote my speech chiefly to other aspects, local aspects specifically. During a debate on another Vote, I referred briefly to the absolute necessity for the economic position of Grahamstown to be improved, chiefly due to the tremendous unemployment amongst the Black people there. However, there is a great deal of unemployment amongst the people of colour in Grahamstown too. The State has already tried to do its share by granting Grahamstown border industry status, but unfortunately it appears that the objectives of the decentralization programme there, have not yet been achieved successfully, as is apparently the case throughout the entire country.

I want to refer to what the Decentralization of Industries Board pointed out in its latest report. It is probably also because of this that the Riekert Commission made certain recommendations in its report. The commission recommended, amongst other things, that where decentralization concessions appear to be inadequate, active steps must be taken to increase them to such an extent that they will serve as a positive incentive for industrialists to decentralize. As I understand it, this recommendation in the Riekert report has been accepted by the State, and the improvement and restructuring of incentive measures is now being considered. The matter was referred for consideration to a panel for economic strategy, under the chairmanship of the economic adviser of the hon. the Prime Minister. In this regard, however, I want to suggest a principle and request what I think is a new principle, viz. where a business has already been established in a border area and this particular business considers making a change, due to circumstances, the Decentralization Board and the State must grant the maximum number of concessions possible to such a business in order to try to ensure that that business will remain in the area where it has already become established.

I can explain this by way of an example from my region. There is a business, one of the few businesses in the area, that has been there for many years already and that employs a particularly large number of employees, for that area, in any event. With time, the machinery of that business fell into disrepair to a large extent, and they now have to consider replacing practically all their machinery completely. They have weighed up the circumstances and apparently it will be easier and more profitable for them rather to shift the entire project to a growth point like Atlantis. Hon. members can imagine what the effect will be when one does not yet have an industry and tries to attract one. It is only a vacuum that must be filled, and consequently one loses nothing if one does not gain anything. However, when one has an existing industry and this is moved to another area due to circumstances, a large gap arises and many people who had formerly been employed, are now unemployed. That is why I am asking for the principle to be applied that where there is an existing industry everything possible should be done to keep that industry there where it has become established. I realize that this could lead to certain abuse. That is why I am not asking for a final reply from the hon. the Minister at this stage. I am merely asking for this specific principle to be investigated and that the hon. the Minister could refer it, possibly with a recommendation, to the panel for economic strategy which is investigating this matter. If the hon. the Minister could make a positive recommendation in this regard, it would be greatly appreciated.

Then I also took note with gratitude and appreciation of what the hon. the Minister said about the electricity position. In spite of that, however, I want to add my voice to those of various other hon. members. I am referring particularly to the hon. members of East London City and King William’s Town. I am also asking for a radical new dispensation with regard to the provision of electricity to the Eastern Cape, the border area and then, of course, more specifically to my constituency Albany with the various towns there. I am asking for this specifically for the rural area too, but there I should like to associate myself with the hon. member for Potgietersrus with regard to the farming community. The provision of electricity is not only an economic factor, but it is also developing into a strategic factor. The strategic considerations, particularly in our area, may possibly become just as important as the economic considerations. That is why I make bold to ask for it once again.

Then there is a third factor that I should like to touch on briefly. According to the National Physical Development Plan which was published in 1975, Grahamstown is the principal town of region number 10. In spite of the fact that Grahamstown has achieved border area status, there is very little industrial development due to reasons which cannot be dealt with now. This plan includes the following remark amongst others—

It is particularly with regard to these service functions that we are dependent upon the State and I am asking the hon. the Minister to use his influence with other Ministers where possible to ensure that every possible service function that can be directed towards Grahamstown, will in fact be directed there. Perhaps I can give an example to explain exactly what I mean. The Cape Provincial Council decided to make Grahamstown the principal town for the nature conservation office for that whole region. It is this type of service function that I am asking the State for. Where possible, in accordance with the status that it has achieved as the principal town of this particular region, Grahamstown must be given the opportunity to develop by means of the services of the State being developed and expanded from Grahamstown. I must point out, though, that in the meantime the people of Grahamstown have not simply been sitting still, doing nothing and waiting for the State. On the initiative of a certain Mr. Truscott, a good friend of mine, who is also the chairman of the local Chamber of Commerce, the Chamber of Commerce collected funds and asked the Department of Economics at Rhodes University to undertake a study of the potential of Grahamstown as such in the economic sphere. I think this is a praiseworthy, positive attempt, and when the report is made available, hopefully within a short while, I believe that I shall be able to recommend it with confidence to the hon. the Minister, as well as to other hon. Ministers who might be involved, so that they can take real note of that report which was requested on the initiative of the economically active people of Grahamstown.

I should like to content myself with this at this stage.

Mr. Chairman, in the first place I just wish to congratulate the hon. member for Albany on his fine and positive contribution. Tonight we have again been impressed by the excellent services he is rendering to the people in his constituency. I sincerely hope that the deserving representations he has made here tonight, will meet with success.

†We have several economic imperatives in Southern Africa, of which perhaps the greatest are growth, the creation of more employment opportunities and the raising of economic standards. Hopefully the higher standards will ultimately mean a reduction in our population growth. Over the years we have seen a growing convergence of the South African and Southern African economy, and the hon. the Prime Minister, in his Carlton hotel speech, on 22 November last year, said—

From adequate economic expansion greater order and stability will originate. We know that the economic slump which began in 1957 led to an extensive degree to the political unrest and riots of the early 1960s, and incidents such as those that occurred at Sharpeville, in 1960. It also gave rise to the economic recession of the mid-1970s, and further added to the problems we encountered in Soweto and elsewhere in South Africa, in 1976 and 1977.

South Africa has to grow. We know that 40% of our population is under the age of 14 years and some 80% of our population is under the age of 20 years. In his historic address of 22 November last year to South African businessmen in Johannesburg, the hon. the Prime Minister mentioned amongst other things the role played by the small businessmen. That was endorsed by Dr. Anton Rupert in his reply to the hon. the Prime Minister’s speech. Dr. Rupert quoted statistics and said that of the nine million job opportunities that had been created in the USA in the eight years until 1977, five million had in fact been created by small businessmen, only three million by the State, and fewer than 500 000 by the 1 000 top corporations in the USA; in other words, fewer than 60 job opportunities per corporation.

When we talk about small business, “small” does not necessarily mean less complicated or easier. Small businessmen in fact often require wide experience and talents in various fields, talents other than particular human talents. Often the professional manager has a narrower vision and a narrower perspective of business and of society. Nevertheless, I wish to support very strongly the plea made by Dr. Rupert that evening, as well as everything that was said by the hon. the Prime Minister on the same occasion. The small businessman is a great stimulus to the maintenance of a free society, and the proliferation of small business opens up a number of choices to the individual purchaser in society. This adds to personal liberty. Competition adds competitiveness and excellence. Besides, as we all know, small business is a very large employer.

I should also like to pay tribute this evening to the Small Business Advisory Bureau, of the Potchefstroom University, and to the assistance they received from the Afrikaanse Handelsinstituut and from Assocom in this respect. I should also like to pay tribute to the excellent work that the Rupert family is doing in the promotion of small business.

I should like to make a suggestion in this regard. Perhaps the hon. the Minister could consider encouraging the creation of a small business bureau through one of the known interested parties, e.g. Assocom, the Afrikaanse Handelsinstituut or perhaps the Small Business Advisory Bureau itself. Here small and medium-sized businesses with a definite success record, which wish to assist Africans or people of colour, can register so that in-house training can be provided in a real life, small business environment. I know that there must be thousands of small businesses in South Africa that would be just as prepared to give fellow South Africans a leg-up, people of colour in the homelands, perhaps, or in the Black urban areas. One could, I believe, establish a system of twinning. A small homeland or Black urban business could pair off with a willing, similar type of White-owned business which would open up a constant channel of continuously available advice for the Black businessman. That Black businessman would then only be one telephone call away from instant advice from a person who knows his particular business intimately. One is very grateful for the great work that is being done by the Economic Development Corporation in association with other groups, with certain homeland operators, in tripartite business arrangements. What I am suggesting is not in place of anything that is being done, but in conjunction to what is currently in progress. I say this because the problems that we have in Southern Africa, including the economic problem, are immense. So unless we act on a broad front, with energy, and mobilize all the resources we have, allowing us all to make a valid contribution in South Africa, we may well not succeed. We need to develop on such a scale, on such a time-scale, that I believe that we will have to harness all our people, and what could be more rational than to get the small businessman and the medium-sized businessman to give a leg-up to similar businesses in Black areas? I believe that an enormous pool of goodwill exists, and I furthermore believe that enormous goodwill would be generated by such action.

Another technique that could be used on a large scale, particularly in retailing in urban and peri-urban Black communities, to facilitate the establishment of small businesses, is the franchise principle. In terms of this system, certain companies allow others, on a royalty basis, to use their name, their technology and their marketing and management techniques. I believe that a small business advisory bureau, or any other appropriate authority that may take this action, could either negotiate a head-lease with such companies or obtain the authority to sub-lease the rights in certain Black areas. They could act as agents for these companies that are prepared to grant franchises in Black areas. These franchise arrangements could cover an enormously wide variety of businesses, including service stations, restaurants, dry cleaners, hotels and various kinds of retailers. I believe that this technique could promote the rapid growth of small business in South Africa, and the beauty of it is that immediately on opening a business, that business is known, it has the benefit of national and sub-regional advertising, the standard of the product and service is known and most companies selling franchises have a detailed manual that the owner can and must follow. So there is a continuous technology transfer, back-up and follow-up services afforded by the franchise giver. Given that a person obtains a franchise on a given site, falling within known successful parameters, and given that the owner strictly abides by the manual, as laid down, he is almost guaranteed of success. I believe that this franchise principle could be developed by the department and would assist enormously in speeding up the provision of facilities in Black areas. This would incorporate the principles of private initiative with the financial controls and technology transfer and training that is necessary for a small business. It would, in fact, be a marriage between the small business and big business, and I hope it is a marriage that will be consummated with a degree of urgency. Small business is the greatest potential employer in South Africa, and I believe that we must hurry to establish small business on as wide a front, and on as healthy a basis, as we possibly can.

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Maitland commented on the important role of small businesses in the South African economy, and I agree with him. I think he quoted figures on job creation which, if I am correct, come from the United States. It is an interesting point to note that in Japan small businesses in fact account for something like 80% of all the people who are employed. I think also that it is particularly important with regard to small businesses that we encourage amongst the Blacks the desire to establish small businesses, because it is important—and I think it was the hon. member for Vasco who made this point—that Blacks should also derive benefits from the capitalistic system.

I should like to speak tonight about the question of consumers and consumerism. We hear a great deal these days about the rights of consumers and in fact we have a term to describe it, viz. consumerism. Some people feel that this is a relatively new phenomenon, but in fact this is not so. If one looks, for example, at the history of the United States, one sees that there are three periods in the 20th century in which we had this movement of consumerism. In the early 1900s it was based essentially on the question of rising prices. I am sure the hon. member for Orange Grove, my colleague, will be interested in this that Upton Sinclair’s expose of conditions in the American meat industry and the scandal concerning ethical drugs helped the movement. In the 1930s there was a similar movement, again brought about by rising prices and another drug scandal.

You have got it in for chemists.

I have nothing against chemists. In the 1960s we had another consumer movement and in this instance the reasons were of course a lot more complex. There was Ralph Nader’s campaign against the Corvair motor-car because it was not safe. There was a greater awareness of environmental factors amongst consumers generally. Also consumers were becoming better educated. I think that today we would be well advised to assume that for various reasons consumerism is likely to be with us to stay. One reason is the rising prices. Moreover many products are becoming more complex and hazardous. Here one thinks particularly of the increasing number of the electrical appliances that are being sold. There is, particularly amongst the younger generation, a greater concern about the environment and what we do to it. Also, as I have said, consumers are becoming better educated.

At times it would seem in South Africa that the Government’s attitude has varied between one of laissez faire—I refer for instance to the abolition of rent control— and one of over-regulation of the market place. As Prof. Lombard has pointed out, in South Africa Government policy has vacillated between economic liberalism and economic socialism or, rather, economic bureaucracy in unpredictable ways. However, I doubt whether there are many in this House who would propagate a system of caveat emptor as the only protection for consumers. Often those who put forward this point of view cite the free enterprise or capitalistic system as the basis for their argument. Academically speaking, it might be possible to argue that, in a system of pure free enterprise and hence a system of perfect free competition, the market place will deal with those organizations that are inefficient, dishonest or corrupt.

South Africa is, however, not an example of a perfectly competitive market place, nor of a perfect free enterprise economic system. Firstly, we have a situation in South Africa where the total public sector at the end of 1976 owned 54% of the real capital stock of South Africa and the private sector only 46%. Secondly, we have in South Africa an advanced state of State capitalism. Many of these bodies operate under monopolistic or virtually monopolistic conditions. Consumers have a right to be protected from public organizations as much as they have the right to be protected from organizations in the private sector. Moreover, such public organizations are not subject to the same market forces most free enterprise organizations are.

Thirdly, there is a concentration of power in a few economic hands in many cases. The Commission of Inquiry into the Regulation of Monopolistic Conditions Act, the Mouton Commission, found that out of a total of 181 manufacturing industries in South Africa, in 58 cases, that is 32,5%, the three largest firms accounted for at least 70% of the total turnover in that industry. It also found that in 44 cases the three largest firms accounted for 80% of the turnover, and that at the one extreme there are industries in which no more than three firms controlled at least 95% of the turnover of that industry. Clearly then in South Africa we cannot allow the unfettered exploitation of consumers. However, we do not want a situation in which private enterprise is placed in chains. I believe that the following consumer rights would not hamper the effective functioning of the private-enterprise system. These include the right not to buy a product that is offered for sale. This is not a right that everybody in South Africa has, because if I want to travel by air, I have to travel by means of S.A. Airways.

What is wrong with that?

There is just no competition to choose from. The consumer also has the right to expect the product to be safe, and the right to expect the product to be what it is claimed to be. These are the traditional rights which buyers have had. Comparing these rights, many believe that the balance of power lies on the seller’s side. It is true that the buyer can refuse to buy any product, but it is generally felt that the buyer is really without sufficient information, education and protection to make wise decisions in the face of highly sophisticated sellers. Therefore I believe there are additional rights that consumers are entitled to. For example, they should have the right to be adequately informed about the more important aspects of a product, the right to be protected against questionable products and marketing practices and the right to influence products and marketing practices in directions that will enhance the “quality of life”.

Whose responsibility is that?

I would like to dwell on the sixth point that I raised, namely the right of consumers to exercise influence in directions that will lead to better products and services and to an enhanced quality of life. It is no longer good enough to argue that the consumer should only be seen as a pawn subject to the tyranny of experts or the tyranny of bureaucrats. Aristotle said: “Who is a better judge of the comfort of my house, the experts who built it or I who live in it?” I believe that we should rather see consumers as real partners in the management of society and treat them as such. In other words, the public must not merely be receivers of the services provided by public administration authorities, or local authorities, but there should also be a greater emphasis on the active role of consumers as satisfaction seekers.

We must realize that consumers can be broken into various segments and that the needs of these segments differ from one another. Many businessmen have realized this and have accepted this concept. A study by Dr. Sandra van der Merwe showed that those who accept this concept of the need to satisfy the needs of consumers have a greater return on capital than those companies that do not accept it. I believe that this marketing approach to consumers should not only be encouraged among all businesses, but should also be sold, by the hon. the Minister of Industries and of Commerce and Consumer Affairs, to his colleagues. Moreover, public bodies should be encouraged to involve the recipients of their services in determining the nature and extent of their services. For example, the sort of things I think we can involve them in is, for example, having mothers involved in deciding what the school uniforms for a school should be, because they are intimately involved with this.

They are.

They should also be involved in the question of abortions. There was a commission of inquiry on which there were no women representatives serving as commissioners. That is wrong, because they are intimately involved in that particular issue. [Interjections.] Indeed, Government and public bodies should be encouraged to undertake continuous and extensive market research. Moreover, recipients of the services should be consulted on a continuous basis. By this I do not mean merely talking to consumers, but also listening to what they have to say. Such a policy would have many advantages. Firstly, it would give those who manage public bodies a better idea of how the consumers of their services view those services. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I am not going to react to the argument of the hon. member for Edenvale because I think the argument he has presented in regard to consumer interests is somewhat of an oversimplification. I doubt very much whether the general views expressed by the hon. member conform with those of the S.A. Consumer Council. I think one would encounter a greater variety of views in the Consumer Council than were expressed by the hon. member for Edenvale. [Interjections.] Whether it is an over-simplification is something we can argue about. We have the interests of the consumer at heart. It is obvious that any company marketing a reputable product does take into consideration the interests, the likes and the dislikes of the consumer. Otherwise that company would not sell its goods. It is a complete oversimplification of the argument that the hon. member presented here.

I now want to come back to the subject introduced by the hon. member for Maitland in regard to the interests of the small businessman. I should like to approach this question from an entirely different point of view. I think that in our economy there are certain national economic objectives, and one can list them as: Maintaining a satisfactory growth rate in the economy, making provision for adequate employment opportunities, providing for a socially acceptable distribution of income and providing for a socially acceptable geographical distribution of economic activity throughout the country. To maintain any one of these objectives there are four essentials. The first essential is new ideas, the second essential is the development of new processes, the third essential is the development of new competitive fields and the fourth essential is new marketing concepts in one’s economy.

I think this is very much borne out by the statement made by the hon. the Prime Minister when he met businessmen in Johannesburg and said—and I shall paraphrase what he said—that no Government can successfully prescribe to individual entrepreneurs what to produce, how to produce, for whom to produce and where to invest. I mention this because if our economy has to grow and expand, it cannot do so only on the basis of existing public corporations, listed and private companies and the individual business entrepreneurs. If we have to think of acting in that restricted field, with our expanding population and our increasing growth rate, we have to ask ourselves if there is sufficient opportunity in South Africa for the new entrepreneur, whether in industry or in commerce. I think, too, that it is an undisputed fact, as the hon. member for Maitland pointed out as stated by Dr. Rupert at the Prime Minister’s conference, that the small businessman can offer far more employment opportunities than can the big corporations. In the light of this one has to ask oneself, if one is anxious that small businesses should develop, whether the present trend in South Africa is, in fact, not in the opposite direction. When one talks of small businesses—and the hon. member for Maitland and the hon. member for Edenvale also used that term on several occasions—no definition was given as to what exactly a small business is. A small business can be a shop around the corner, a café, a shoemaker’s shop or a little dry cleaning business. When one talks in terms of a small business, and in terms of an expanding economy and an increased growth rate, one has to take one’s thinking a little bit beyond the field of the small business around the comer or the café. We have to look at the trend in South Africa, and I want to quote the latest report of the IDC which states (page 3)—

There is another indication, when one looks at the trends. If one looks at the Stock Exchange Handbook one sees that it lists companies which, since January 1977, have had their names removed from the Stock Exchange listings. Forty-eight public companies, covering such wide interests in marketable consumer goods as shoes, hosiery, electrical goods, textiles, liquor, steel products, clothing, foodstuffs, eggs and even chemicals are included. The majority of these delistings were as a result of take-overs or the amalgamation of capital interest based on the argument that this gave greater efficiency in the development of the business, in distribution or in management as such.

I am of the opinion that there are other steps that are necessary if one is to develop the type of entrepreneur we have in mind and which we generally classify today as a small businessman. If one takes a pin and places it on any one of the listings that appear daily in the stock exchange list in the newspaper, listings in any one of the sectors —that involved in production, distribution, the service industries or trading in our country—and one goes into the history of the company in the name of which one has stuck the pin, one will find that it was started by an entrepreneur, a small businessman, who developed his capital until, eventually, he reached the stage where he had to go public to be able to develop his business further. In most cases the companies that are listed started as one-man businesses. The question I pose, is: How long has it been since a new company has sought a listing on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange, a new company which was started by a private entrepreneur?

I can think of one such last year.

Yes, there are exceptions, but they are absolutely the exception.

How many new listings were there last year?

But the new listings mostly come from an amalgamation or big organizations seeking new capital. One has to look again at the IDC report for support on this. In referring to the small industries, the report states (p. 5)—

There are inhibiting factors which prevent the development of the entrepreneur spirit in our country. At this point in time, I refer particularly to the White entrepreneur. I am not referring to the development corporation which was recently set up by Dr. Anton Rupert, and the idea of which he helped to propagate. One of the biggest stumbling blocks—and I direct a plea to the hon. the Minister in this regard—in the way of the average company, the company with R200 000 or R250 000 capital development, is, I believe, our taxation system. My plea tonight is for the hon. the Minister to make a plea to his colleague the hon. the Minister of Finance. This taxation system, I think, tends, in the development of an average sized business, to take away the entrepreneur spirit. In most cases these private businesses of average means and with a capital structure of R150 000 or R200 000 are still in the private company category as one-man shows. If one looks at a business in trade or in the engineering industry, a business with a capital investment of, for instance, R250 000 under the existing system, one sees that it can expect between 12% and 15% net return on its capital investment after that entrepreneur has paid himself a salary. However, after tax he has very little to put into the further expansion of the business. This is one of the inhibiting factors, because, as one finds in many cases, the entrepreneur asks what the use is of expanding, because he is merely working for the taxman. I think that the day has to arrive rapidly—and I hope that the hon. the Minister will make this plea to his colleague the hon. the Minister of Finance—when there will be taxation relief for the private businessman so that he can put back some of his profits into his business to develop it to a greater extent, for the greater growth of the economy of the country. I see the hon. member nodding his head in agreement. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, because of the lateness of the hour I have decided, after having worked out a 10-minute speech in which I wished to suggest a miraculous formula with which we could limit the cost of living in this country, but after having then listened to the hon. the Minister and noticed in particular the long-suffering way in which he reacted to individual requests by hon. members, to change my speech completely and to discuss another subject. The matter which I wish to discuss with him can in fact be summarized in one sentence. The time has come for the contemplated semis works or processing unit in South Africa to be built at Saldanha Bay, specifically in the interests of the Boland. While the hon. the Minister is thinking of a reply to this suggestion, I first wish to perform another little task.

Under the new dispensation for our Public Service, control over the Sea Fisheries Division has been transferred from the Department of Industries to the Department of Agriculture, so that the latter department is now called the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries. I was one of those who has been advocating over the years that this should be done.

I wish to avail myself of this opportunity to praise and pay great tribute to the Department of Industries, once the Department of Economic Affairs, to the various responsible Ministers, to the Sea Fisheries Division and to Fishcor who brought this wonderful and colourful industry of ours to where it is today. In the initial years of this industry many growing pains were experienced, and the Department of Industries really went out of its way to nurse this industry through its growing pains. In this connection I am thinking for example of the tremendous part played by the Department of Industries in the pelagic fishing industry, the deep-sea trawling industry, the rock lobster industry, the abalone industry, the exploitation of seaweed before a start was made with the construction of Saldanha Bay Harbour, and all the minor branches of the exploitation of marine resources, I wish to pay tribute to the Department of Industries for everything which it has done over the years.

I now wish to return to the subject which I wish to discuss. If one considers the situation in the Boland today, one sees that the growth rate in the Boland has lagged behind the population increase in the Greater Boland. Besides the White people there is also a large Coloured population living in this area. In the Western Cape metropolitan area, in which there are already signs of an overconcentration of Coloured and White people, the hon. the Minister of Cooperation and Development wishes at this stage to cause a fourth large Black city to arise alongside Langa, Nyanga and Guguletu. To me this sounds completely paradoxical.

I maintain that the growth rate in the Boland today is not keeping pace with the population growth. The only way in which this dilemma can be solved is for the State to ensure that this semis works at Saldanha Bay becomes a reality. In recent years the State has done a great deal in the Boland to stimulate new growth and development. I am thinking here of the nuclear power station and the Atlantis project. The Atlantis project is so successful at this stage that the hon. member for Albany has even complained that the project is siphoning people and industries away from his part of the world.

That is true.

Today the Atlantis project is a great success. It is but one of the successes achieved by the Government. I am also thinking, for example, of the railway line from Sishen to Saldanha Bay and of the Boland water plan. All these things have been established by the Government to stimulate growth momentum in the Boland. Despite of these courageous efforts, however, there is in reality only one real star project by means of which we can create additional growth in the Western Cape, and that is the envisaged semis works at Saldanha Bay. Today the Atlantis project is the outstanding example to us of such development. We struggled with it. We wanted to create a new growth point in that specific area. At one stage the Government did the initial work through the Industrial Development Corporation with the establishment of the diesel project there. Since that diesel project was established it has been remarkable what tremendous growth momentum has been born in that specific area as a result of the fact that the Government showed that it had confidence in what it created.

Only today I was talking to the staff of this decentralized office of the Industrial Development Corporation, and in passing I want to thank the hon. the Minister and his department for having a decentralized office of the Industrial Development Corporation in Cape Town. They tell me that recently there has been a stream of people calling at the office to look at the various forms of investments which can be made in this specific area. The same situation applies in the Saldanha Bay area. There we created an infrastructure and laid on a water supply at a cost of approximately R52 million. We worked out a detailed guide plan in which millions of rands have been invested, and we have brought the ore from Sishen.

When I stand on the quay at Saldanha Bay and look at the wonderful achievement in front of me and I see thousands upon thousands of tons of crude ore being exported to the outside world, I feel heartsore. I think it is wrong that South Africa should export its crude ore on such a vast scale, while we are saddled in our own country with a major unemployment problem. The time has come for our Government to give very serious consideration indeed to the processing of ore at Saldanha Bay, even if it is only in a semi-processed form. There are many other factors which influence the situation and which I do not have the time to go into now. The hon. the Minister is an expert on this area and is very fond of it. I know for example what a tremendous contribution he made to establishing an area such as Atlantis from scratch. I am making an appeal to him to make this project a reality as soon as possible.

At this stage I am aware that we cannot, in the first instance, ask the Government for money to make this project a reality. But private enterprise can make a contribution. At this stage it is no secret that negotiations with the Government are in progress. However a delay has been encountered in finding a formula according to which this situation can ultimately become a reality. I am making an appeal to the hon. the Minister, as a person who is fond of this particular area, to conduct the necessary consultations and ensure as soon as possible that this situation becomes a reality.

In the second place I wish to refer to the Atlantis project. We have made a start with various decentralized growth points in South Africa, for example in Newcastle … [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, it is always very pleasant to listen to the hon. member for Moorreesburg, particularly when he is talking about his own constituency. There are definitely few hon. members in this House to whom their constituencies and that part of the world which they come from are as dear to them as is the case of the hon. member for Moorreesburg.

Earlier today the hon. member for Newcastle referred to the duties and responsibilities of the public sector and the private sector in the economic development of our country. I want to refer in particular to the duties of these two sectors, particularly as far as export promotion is concerned.

Probably one of the most important findings of the latest economic development programme in connection with growth prospects in South Africa over the next 10 years is that these will to a large extent be determined by the course taken by the balance of payments. This finding arises primarily from the experiences South Africa had during the ’seventies, when we were tremendously dependent on foreign capital and when it was necessary to stimulate exports to a great extent, thereby obtaining foreign exchange so as to become less dependent on fluctuations in the influx of foreign capital. There are strong indications that, as a result of the tremendous import replacement projects and the tremendous increase in the export of goods, our economy is in future perhaps not going to be so extremely sensitive to the balance of payments problems.

Despite the fact that we may in future not have to rely so heavily on exports for the sake of our balance of payments, we shall nevertheless have to accord an extremely high priority to our exports so as to create more labour opportunities for our people in South Africa.

In the third scenario of the economic development programme under the heading an “Exceptional Export Effort”, and which is the most optimistic forecast for South Africa, it is calculated that in 1987 the unemployment rate will be running at 11,5%, provided we can maintain an average growth of 5,8% in our export of goods. When we speak of exports for the sake of improving our unemployment figure, what we are referring to in particular is the export of more labour-intensive manufactured products. In promoting the export of these products the Directorate of Export Promotion plays an extremely important part. This directorate is involved in the practical aspects of export promotion. The activities of this directorate can be classified into three main categories: In the first place it is its task to maintain contact with the local exporters. Various committees have been established by means of which recommendations can be obtained from exporters by means of which the Government can decide to improve its export incentives.

Another activity of the directorate is its foreign trade representative service. This service is at present maintaining 35 trade offices in 27 countries. These offices are manned by 61 export officers, consisting of 26 marketing officers, who are normally people recruited locally.

The third activity of this directorate is to control the administration of various export concessions and incentive measures. Further services offered by the directorate to exporters and prospective exporters are the provision of advice and information, as well as assistance in finding markets. The directorate also makes recommendations pertaining to and arising from statutary amendments and amended regulations in foreign countries as far as they can affect our exports. The directorate also carries out provisional market research on behalf of our exports. They arrange the participation of our exporters in foreign exhibitions, for which exporters can receive financial assistance from the State, and they also inspect South African products abroad, particularly perishable products. One of the important aspects of this directorate is that it disseminates information on products which can be exported by means of newsletters sent abroad. So, for, example, every office abroad has its own newsletter. The directorate also has a computerized list of all importers and their products, so that organizations making inquiries can easily be referred to these persons. There is no doubt that the activities of the directorate and the export incentive measures of the Government have proved and are still proving to be tremendously successful. This is demonstrated by the vast increase in the exporting of goods. From 1978 to 1979 these exports increased by 19%. In January this year, as an annual rate, they amounted to R11 500 million, which is R850 million more than the imports.

The best evidence of the success of these operations, however, is the export of manufactured goods. During the years 1975 to 1978, which is only a period of three years, the exports of these manufactured goods rose by 164% and amounted to R2 350 million. These figures, the services rendered by the directorate and the concessions being offered by the Government are evidence of the fact that the State is doing its duty by promoting exports. The duty of promoting exports, however, does not rest only on the State. The Reynders Commission found that the duty of the State is merely to create the right economic climate to make the circumstances conducive to exports. The main obligation in regard to export promotion must rest on the shoulders of private enterprise. Unfortunately it cannot be said that all manufacturers are really doing their duty in this connection. There are still far too many major international trade fairs at which few, if any, South African manufacturers have exhibits, while this is in any case the only way of really capturing new markets. This is also happening in spite of the fact that there is tremendous State assistance and that it is also possible to obtain tremendous tax benefits as a result of such promotion. Established labour-intensive manufacturers will have to know that unless there are other valid considerations, they are not doing their duty to the country if they are not exporting a large percentage of their production. To capture the foreign market frequently takes years of promotion and perseverance. Foreign importers must not only be persuaded of the quality or price of the product, they must also be persuaded of the fact that the exporter is stable and that it is an investment to do business with him. That is why it is important that exporters should not in future appear only sporadically with exhibits, but should persist in this. I would like to hold up one of our local manufacturers to this House as a very good example. I am referring to the Three Spears company in Cape Town, which manufactures backpacks and tents. In spite of the fact that this company has to import 30% of its raw materials, it exported 60% of its production last year and this year the percentage is going to be far higher. However, it took six years of perservering with displays at foreign trade fairs to achieve this. I should like to make an appeal to our manufacturers to co-operate with greater enthusiasm and perseverance in the export promotion effort, particularly on by exhibiting on international trade fairs.

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Pietermaritzburg North has made a well-founded plea for the extension of our exports. He will forgive me if I leave it at that and do not take the matter any further, because I wish to raise a different question with the hon. the Minister this evening. It is a question which touches on energy matters. To a certain extent some of my comments will in fact also apply to the discussion of another Vote, namely Mineral and Energy Affairs. I shall, however, try to restrict myself to those aspects which touch on the Vote we are discussing this evening.

Firstly, I want to raise with the hon. the Minister this evening the question of South Africa’s export of coal and some thoughts relating to that. Last year South Africa exported some 23 million tons of coal. It was sold for a sum of some R480 million. In terms of our foreign exchange that is an important sum of money and it is a large sum of money. It is, however, a very interesting exercise to ask whether in fact we are getting the best out of what we are exporting. I do not believe we are, and I should like to express some thoughts with regard to the other side of the picture. If we take the 23 million tons of coal we exported, it is interesting to see that Sasols 1, 2 and 3 altogether will use only approximately that quantity of coal in a full year. I think that that, for a start, is a very interesting comparison to make. Let us, however, take it a stage further and have a look at the products which can be produced from the 23 million tons of coal. If one does that, the comparison becomes quite startling. For a start, 23 million tons of coal will enable us to produce some 4 600 million litres of fuel. That is quite apart from the 1,3 million tons of chemicals of the various types that are already being produced by Sasol 1. As the hon. the Minister will know, there are some 110 different by-products Sasol 1 produces. The range of by-products in the Sasol process is therefore a very wide one. The value of this to South Africa is, of course, enormous and in some instances incalculable. The third spin-off from the 23 million tons of coal would be some 25 million cubic metres of gas which in itself is a very useful energy source in South Africa.

I cannot help thinking that in the place of the R480 million we are getting from exporting coal at a price of R21 per ton, approximately, we could be getting very much more if we were to beneficiate that coal, as it were, and export some of the end products of that process of beneficiation. If one took the 4 600 million litres of fuel I referred to and exported that at 40 cents per litre, that in itself would be worth R1 840 million, which is four times as much as the value of the coal exported in its raw state. That does not take into account any of the other by-products I mentioned or the gas.

When one talks in terms of millions of tons, it is very easy to lose sight of the point one is trying to make. I should like to reduce the million tons to 1 ton and discuss the products one gets out of 1 ton of coal when it is put through a Sasol or similar process. That 1 ton of coal will produce approximately 156 litres of fuel. Sasol fuel is at present sold on the Rand for 54 cents per litre. In other words, the 156 litres will bring in R84. Then, the 1 ton of coal would give us some 50 kg of assorted chemicals, ranging from ethylene and chemicals for the pharmaceutical industry through to tar, ammonia and sulphur. I think we are not getting the best possible value if we export coal at a give away price of R21 per ton when we know what we can get from that coal if it goes through the processes we are capable of applying within this country. I want to put it to the hon. the Minister that perhaps the time has come to consider this aspect very carefully and to look again at the whole question of the quantities of coal South Africa is exporting. Coal is a finite commodity. The resources of coal can be exhausted. Therefore we must look at it again in the light of the advantage to South Africa of an on-going building of Sasol plants.

I know that the point of view of the chairman of Sasol at present is that we have enough to cope with until the end of the 1980s and that he also believes that there might be a new technology at that stage. However, the point I want to make is that, if we were to continue now to plan a Sasol 4, we would be able to phase in the workers as and when they finish Sasol 3. As it is, it is going to be difficult, perhaps, to find jobs for many of those skilled and semi-skilled workers. I believe that private institutions and the public would be very happy to invest—even knowing that they might not be getting dividends for some time—because we know the value of the Sasol installations to this country. If we could beneficiate our coal to the extent that we could export the fuel and chemical products derived from that coal rather than the coal itself at rock-bottom prices, I believe that this would be very much in the interests of the country.

Another issue I want to raise with the hon. the Minister this evening is the question of the price of fuel. I believe that, if there is one major factor today in the high inflation rate that we see in South Africa, then it is the price the average person is paying for liquid fuel in South Africa. This is one of the major factors in the inflationary spiral. I believe the time has perhaps come for the hon. the Minister to look at the levies that are charged in respect of each litre of fuel that is sold or produced in South Africa, with a view to seeing whether it is not possible to make fuel available more cheaply. The general manager of one of the large motor manufacturers in this country, based in Port Elizabeth, calculated recently that it would cost the Government approximately R112 million in loss of taxes to reduce the price of fuel by 10%. I have also done some calculations and I cannot agree with these figures. I think it would cost more than that, but I was only working on a estimate of how much fuel is sold in this country, because there is a lot of secrecy surrounding the quantity of fuel that is sold, and we are aware of the reasons for this. I do not agree with it, but I can understand the reasoning behind it. However, I wonder whether the hon. the Minister could not inform the House when he replies to the debate what it would cost the Government to reduce the price of fuel by 10%; in other words, what the direct loss in terms of excise and tax would be to the Government if they were to reduce the price of fuel by 10%. I personally would like to see a price of 40c per litre for fuel in South Africa. That would represent a reduction in price of some 20%, and I believe there are an awful lot of people who could motivate a case for reducing the price of fuel by 20%. However, we cannot have everything all at once. I would appreciate it if the hon. the Minister could tell us what it would cost the Government in loss of taxes to reduce the price of fuel by 10%, because I believe we could do that as a first step. That, coupled with the reduced taxes which will come into effect in July, would have a very significant effect on improving the economy and helping to give the extra boost that is needed to really get the economy moving.

Thirdly, I would like to raise with the hon. the Minister the question of the levies on gas. The Second State Oil Fund Amendment Act of last year enabled the hon. the Minister to put a fairly significant duty of 7,4c on each kilogram of liquid petroleum gas. In some areas of South Africa that gas is widely used for heating and cooking purposes. I believe this big extra wallop that the hon. the Minister is taking in the form of this levy has added unnecessarily to the inflationary spiral. We are producing and burning at our refineries more gas than we can use, and I cannot see any real reason or motivation behind the thinking that it is necessary to have such a high price on gas that is widely used in South Africa. The price has absolutely sky-rocketed over the past 10 years. Particularly to farmers and people living in outlying areas this represents an enormous burden. I wonder whether this aspect cannot be looked into and whether it is not possible to encourage the use of gas by removing some of the levy which is presently payable. If the levy is reduced, profit and other margins will also be reduced and the actual price will come down significantly.

Mr. Chairman, allow me briefly to extend a hearty welcome to my bench mate in this House. [Interjections.] I trust that his term here will be long, pleasant and very fruitful. I am quite sure that he will feel at home here very soon since his grandfather was an MP in the Free State and his father was not only a member of this House, but also an Administrator of the Cape. Therefore, as the farmers and the hon. the Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries would say, he was bred for the job.

In the limited time at my disposal I should like to say a few things about the sugar industry and this also fits in with the hon. member for Fauresmith, whose success was sweet. The sugar farmers experienced very difficult times for many years and this is happening once again with the drought which we are experiencing in that area. Last year, R25 million had to be borrowed to keep the price of sugar at a reasonable level. At the time, it amounted to R104,05 per ton of sucrose or R13,15 per ton of cane, and even at this level it was considerably lower than the production costs and the norms laid down by the Government for the return allowed on capital. In this regard I want to associate myself with the hon. member for Amanzimtoti who expressed his concern about the fact that the Stabilization Fund was depleted within such a short period of time.

The industry’s problems however, did not only begin last year. The fact of the matter is that this down trend extended over a period of seven to eight years. However, this trend was entrenched by funds taken from the Stabilization Fund.

In the early seventies the world price of sugar was very high. I can recall very well that the sugar price amounted to £650 in 1974. From the point of view of the sugar farmer, the high sugar price at the time had an unfortunate history. From January 1974 to the middle of 1978, sugar was sold on the domestic market at a price below the production costs. This problem was aggravated when the domestic price was decreased in February 1972 and once again in November 1974 as a result of the high export price. According to calculations, the period in which the domestic price was decreased, caused a loss of approximately R80 million, an amount which would have otherwise been paid into the Stabilization Fund.

After this period of a high world price for sugar, the price dropped to a considerably lower level than the domestic production costs, viz. from £600 in 1974 to £150 in 1975 and £120 by the end of 1976. This inevitably led to the end of a period in which the high export price was utilized to keep the domestic price at such a low level. At that stage the domestic price was so low that it covered a mere half of the production costs.

The sharp price increase which was introduced to set the position right at that stage, then brought about a slight drop in domestic consumption. Only by the middle of 1978 had the domestic price come more or less into line with the production costs.

As has already been said, the shortage during this period in which costs could not be covered, had to be made good. This was done by withdrawals from the Stabilization Fund. Gradually the Stabilization Fund became completely depleted. Like all other sectors of agriculture, this industry is also subject to the tremendous increase in production costs.

Against this background, I now want to come to the argument that I want to raise. At the moment, as the hon. member for Amanzimtoti indicated earlier on, the world price has shown a considerable increase once again. It is now approximately £300 per ton as against £97 per ton at the same time last year. Unfortunately, however, the farmer will not be able to benefit from this higher price since the sugar region, particularly in my constituency in Zululand, is suffering one of the most serious droughts in living memory, for the second consecutive year for some regions and for as much as the fourth consecutive year for others.

I grew up in Zululand and I have never seen the cane in the condition that it is now in some areas. It is heartbreaking to see how the cane has been completely destroyed on some farms. In the Heatonville and Tandanani area, the cane has died completely on some farms and it will have to be re-established there. The condition is further aggravated by the Eldana borer which strikes this reed affected by drought.

When farmers’ associations brought the problem to my attention, I suggested that they go through the Sugar Association and draw up a memorandum. On this occasion I want to express my hearty thanks to the hon. the Minister of Industries and the hon. the Minister of Community Development who visited the constituency. We have already visited those areas by helicopter. Now I want to ask that when the Sugar Association and representatives of the farmers come to see the hon. the Minister as well as the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Fisheries on Wednesday, we should really do everything in our power to assist these farmers who have been forced to their knees, and to grant them the required assistance. Conditions are serious and therefore I am asking for aid from the Government.

As I have already said, the farmers are already experiencing a backlog. They have gone through years of drought and they are burdened by debt. Some of them have fallen behind with their bond repayments. There is current expenditure that they have to incur all the time. In conditions of drought such as these the cost per area unit and the cost per ton increases, but the main problem is that many of these farmers will have to re-establish large areas, and to re-establish cane, costs one anything between R750 and R1 000 per ha. Under the circumstances it is impossible for these farmers to stand alone.

That is why I am asking the Government to assist us in this regard. I am asking for assistance which will not only slow down the downfall of the farmer, but that will put him on his feet once again. I am asking the Government to offer assistance on the long term so that we can offer relief and keep our farmers on the farms. Many of the farmers in these stricken areas are young men who began farming recently, do not have the required working capital and have not yet been able to build up reserves to survive this period, and that is why I am asking the Government to help.

I want to thank the hon. the Minister for the sympathetic attitude that he has adopted thus far. I believe that he will do everything in his power to help. We shall also twist the arm of the hon. the Minister of Finance, the NP’s leader in Natal, to help us.