Mr. Speaker, I move—

When I speak of muggings and molestation of elderly people, I in no way wish to ignore the fact that people of all ages are subjected to the vengeance of the many anti-social deviates who appear to be making the densely populated urban areas increasingly their hunting-grounds.

I approach the problem of the deterioration of the quality of life from the elderly person’s point of view not because he is physically the easiest victim to abuse. There should be no mistake about it that the muggers usually hunt in packs of even three and four together and can just as easily attack a healthy and fit young man as the elderly. I approach it from this angle, because the elderly person who lives in a densely populated urban area seldom can look forward to the day when he will move out of that society again. For the elderly person his final residential address has invariably been determined. He either finds peace and tranquillity where he is, or he will never enjoy it again. To him or her we owe a social responsibility, and I am moving the motion for that reason. The younger person who lives in a densely populated urban area, can afford to tolerate the inconvenience, because he has just set out on his way through life. He either moves out of that environment soon and then looks back on these unpleasant incidents and insecurity as part of his life’s experience and he invariably manages to do so with a considerable sense of amusement. Even if he does not move out quickly, he can still live in the hope of better days. This all helps to make life tolerable.

It is my view that muggings and molestations are increasing. My own personal observation, after representing for nine years a constituency which is densely populated, makes me sincerely believe that the incidence of muggings and molestations is increasing alarmingly. I do not, however, want to approach this problem on a parochial basis, because while some of the factors I am going to speak about undoubtedly exists in a constituency such as Durban Central, others do not. I believe that there are certain factors which are common to all densely populated urban areas. This is clearly illustrated by an article under the heading “Beware! The mugger stalks” which appeared in The Star sometime ago. This article says, inter alia—

But it is not only in Johannesburg and Durban where this occurs, as I will illustrate by quoting random cases I have picked from the editions of The Argus of January 1979. In Cape Town on 6 January Eric Litchfield, a sub-editor of The Cape Times, was robbed and left unconscious. On the same date in Port Elizabeth a 62 year old man was attacked while jogging in the city. In Johannesburg on 8 January former Springbok tennis ace, Eric Sturgess, age 53, was mugged in his shop and taken to hospital with lots of pain. On 10 January a 61-year-old visitor from Austria was attacked in Adderley Street, Cape Town. On 16 January an elderly attorney was attacked in Cape Town. On 24 January a 54-year-old woman died after being robbed and attacked. This is inevitable. On 27 January the historian and radio personality, Eric Rosenthal, age 73, was attacked in a city lift. On 27 January a 79 year old retired medical practitioner was assaulted and robbed by a man who pushed him into a lift. So there is a never-ending stream of reports of attacks on people known and unknown, rich and poor. As recently as 16 February there was the following report about what was said by Mr. R. H. Peckham, a Cape Town magistrate—

On the strength of this evidence I believe that we can safely say that there has definitely been an increase in the incidence of mugging.

The point I should now like to make is that muggers come from all race groups. I particularly want to make this point at this stage in my speech in view of the trend of a recent debate we conducted in this House on social conditions in Sea Point and Green Point. In the light of the trend of discussion in that debate, I should like to ask hon. members who participate in this debate to refrain from introducing any colour or racial overtones into the debate. I say this because when the situation is viewed in its wider context, one sees that it is incorrect to place the blame on Blacks or Coloureds alone. I can assure hon. members, for example, that it would be wrong to say that there are no White muggers in Durban as well. Here I am not referring to hobos or tramps. The people I am referring to are those numbers of young people who are just won’t-work Whites. Since I am an ex-schoolmaster, let me mention that I have kept an eye on some of these muggers ever since they left school. The only time that some of them stop roaming the streets is when they are gaoled, and then only until they are released and return to continue terrorizing law-abiding citizens.

I now come to a consideration of the central issue which is the question of who the muggers are and where they operate. In this regard I am indebted, for my general description, to several newspaper reports. In the cities muggers strike virtually anywhere, as can be seen from the examples I have quoted. While narrow passageways, alleys, public toilets, entrances to old blocks of flats, old lifts, car parks and areas around letterboxes are natural and favourite hunting grounds, areas within running distance of bus stops, taxi ranks and railway stations are also very popular. I came across the following description in a newspaper article. It stated that muggers are nothing but scavengers, devoid of any ethical or moral values. There is something I should like to add to this. The last thing they want to do is work, or show any sympathy or consideration for others. One may rightly ask, at this point, what a mugger looks like when in action. I think it would be best to quote the description which a woman, who was mugged twice in a lift, gave of her assailants. She described them as “mad dogs with hard, cruel faces”.

*Now I come to the question of the tragedy of fear. It is these “mad dogs with their hard, cruel faces” who strike fear into our elderly people. It is they who lower the quality of people’s lives. Where fear is found among children, it can sometimes assume comical dimensions, for very often such fears are largely based on illusions, and not on reality, and are as such a passing phenomenon. But when one sees real fear in the eyes of the elderly and hears it in their voices, there is nothing humorous about it. Then one experiences only a quiet sadness, even when one realizes deep down that to some extent illusions play a role here too. A life free from fear and anxiety is a basic human right which has evolved over the centuries-long process of civilization. In the jungle, and in places where civilization is still dormant, even the strongest and fittest, that are ultimately able to survive, experience fear and anxiety. In our modern society, even the weakest people ought to be able to live without fear and anxiety. Although this is not quite possible, it ought at least to be our aim. In the examples I quoted, I demonstrated that the elderly in our densely populated urban areas are not subjected to physical fear only. The quality of their lives is marred by other fears too. For example there is the fear of a deterioration in his financial position. He realizes that against the background of an ever-increasing cost of living and the drop in value of money, it is becoming more and more difficult to keep up his present financial position. A further deterioration of the position will cause him to take refuge in an even more unsafe part of the city.

The vast majority of elderly people in the densely populated areas are either pensioners or people living on a fixed income. They are the hardest hit by the continual erosion of the value of money. It is often tragic to see how the quality of life of the ex-magistrate, or the ex-schoolmaster or school inspector as a pensioner decreases continually as years go by. Eventually a stage is reached where his standard of living is no longer related at all to that which could be expected of a person of his social status and, let us be honest, to that which he in particular should be entitled to. These are matters to which the Government should in my opinion pay urgent attention. What is more, I believe the Government is able to give this urgent attention.

In modern life, the pensioner’s preretirement period is getting longer owing to the rapid progress of medical science. This has certain advantages, of course, but a longer life also entails certain problems which we should take note of. The deterioration of people’s financial position is one of them. Apart from fear of physical dangers and the deterioration of one’s financial position, we find that as far as the quality of life is concerned, there is another great fear in the densely populated urban areas, viz. the fear of loneliness. Many of our elderly people used to enjoy family-life, but in the densely populated urban areas most of them are single. It is the single person in today’s society who really has reason to dread loneliness.

There are also some other elements where fear is involved. There is also the fear of noise. And volumes could be written about the effect of too much noise on the emotional state of man. The rich, the poor, the old and the young suffer this. The inconsiderate motorist, the motor-cyclist who wants to hear whose exhaust can make the biggest noise and perhaps even the municipality who at any time allows repairs of roads, etc. to be done, but pays no heed to the element, are all responsible. It happens quite often too that the Railways causes unnecessary and too much noise. All these things make the lives of our elderly city dwellers unnecessarily unpleasant.

†Then we also have to cope with the short-sightedness and carelessness of many other people as is evidenced by this letter I have received from an elderly person in my constituency who, once it became known that I would be moving this motion here, wrote to me as follows—

The timing of robots is all in favour of the motorist. Municipalities appear to think that pedestrians are jet-propelled. Comers are particularly dangerous. Pedestrians appear to have no right of way. Cars speed around the comers and one has to be pretty agile to get back onto the curb even though the robot is in one’s favour.

I just mention this because it should make it clear to hon. members why I refer in this motion not only to the Government but also to other relevant authorities.

Over and above the fear of physical attacks, of loneliness and of excessive noise, there is another fear which contributes to a deterioration of the quality of life of elderly people in densely populated areas, and that is the fear of the lack of decent suitable accommodation. I mention this as a specific problem in my motion. I want to stress the hardship which are caused by the lack of decent suitable accommodation. This is another basic fear haunting the elderly.

There was a time when in Durban—I am going to use Durban as an example because I know the situation there—there were many establishments providing accommodation in the form of furnished apartments and rooms. This was a godsend to a particular type of elderly person. But this type of accommodation has virtually disappeared and has been replaced by modern blocks of flats. This type of accommodation is just beyond the means of certain categories of elderly people. I believe the Government should take the initiative and create the right climate for the building of furnished apartments again. If the right climate is created, it can be done. Private initiative can also do something about it. Otherwise the Government should, via the Department of Community Development and/ or the Department of Social Welfare and Pensions, double its efforts and do something constructive about it. South Africa’s obsession with turning the central urban areas into concrete jungles of high-rise buildings is another factor in the deterioration of the quality of life of many elderly people.

In so many of the older cities of Europe life is still bearable even in the central city areas—although there may not be many people living there—because of the timeous introduction of building height restrictions. This appears to be a term which is unknown in the vocabulary of South Africans and our city fathers must quickly learn it. What is required are steps not only by the Government, but also by local authorities. The city councils and the municipalities are the closest to the problem. Their activities affect the daily lives of elderly people to a very great extent. They are ideally equipped to improve the quality of life for the elderly. Some seem to be oblivious of the fact, luckily, others are not. They do, however, face a very serious problem, a problem with which only the Government can assist them, and this is that with an antiquated tax structure they already carry too heavy a burden in providing normal services. The situation has already been reached that many people pay more in municipal rates than in income tax. The tax structure requires urgent revision. I am very glad to note that the right noises have been made in this respect. This is a major factor causing elderly home-owners to sell their homes in the suburbs and to move to more densely populated flat-land areas where, although they are not in any financial difficulties, they are introduced to an environment where, measured against their previous mode of living, the quality of life soon deteriorates. I want to underline the fact that the quality of life deteriorates also for the person with money who lives in a densely populated area. Furthermore, the inadequacy of the present tax structure limits the ability of local authorities to improve the quality of life of those living within their jurisdiction. One of my colleagues will specifically deal with the many ways to improve the quality of life of the elderly people and another will deal with the hardships in obtaining suitable accommodation.

In conclusion I wish to make a few suggestions regarding combating muggings and molestations. Of course, the mugger luckily does not always win, as can be seen from these brief reports, and I quote—

Or this one—

Here it concerns a 74-year-old lady who was doddering back from her shopping. As her handbag was grabbed, widowed Mrs. West showed that she had not forgotten her judo. Her comments tell the whole story—

Both these cases happen to be little old ladies from London. But, as our own South African little old ladies may not be as proficient in judo …

Do not be so sure!

Sir, I am encouraged by one of the little old ladies in this House! As I said, our little old ladies may not all be quite as proficient in judo or have such sharp teeth; so I want to make certain suggestions. The first is a practical suggestion, namely the introduction of mugger alarms which can be carried by elderly people to scare off muggers. In England an organization concerned with the aged has distributed hundreds of these. We could try this system here as well. Secondly, there is the compulsory installation of alarms in flats, especially in the foyers and corridors of the buildings. These two measures will naturally only have a limited effect. It will, however, surprise hon. members to learn what confidence this will give many an elderly person, just knowing that they will be in a position to scare off possible attackers. Thirdly, there is—and this is of paramount importance and a basic reason for the flourishing of lawlessness—the inadequacy of our Police Force. First of all, they must be better paid. Their numbers must be drastically increased and their physical presence, particularly on foot patrols, must be reintroduced. A fourth aspect is that darkness is an invitation to crime. Parks and streets should therefore be better illuminated at night.

I wish to conclude by repeating what I said earlier, i.e. that we have a social responsibility towards the elderly. All of us here are on our own particular way through life. Some of us are already famous, others live in the hope of becoming famous while others have already failed. But one thing is certain, and that is that we will all one day grow old. How can we expect that others should care for us if, when we were in a position to do something, we did not care for them? For this reason I am very pleased to have had the opportunity of moving this motion today.

Mr. Speaker, like other hon. members on this side of the House I am very grateful for the opportunity being afforded us this morning to discuss the very important subject “the needs of the elderly”. I have looked at the motion introduced by the hon. member for Durban Central and I can only feel disappointed, because looking at his motion one finds that it reflects a spirit of pessimism and an aimless search for something he was unable to offer us in his speech when he elucidated the motion.

What amazed me in particular was that after giving notice of his motion a few weeks ago, the hon. member added an extra section to the motion at a later stage to the effect that an appeal be made to all local authorities to do their part as well. In that way the blame for everything going wrong in regard to the elderly is not being laid at the door of the Government.

Having listened to the closing remarks of the hon. member for Durban Central one concludes that he could and would have rendered a far better service if he had adopted a positive approach to the matter instead of referring in a merely negative sense to what was not being offered.

Tell us now what you have to say about the matter.

I asked myself whether the hon. member for Durban Central was not perhaps troubled by any feelings of guilt. Is the hon. member for Durban Central perhaps so busy enjoying, together with his voters, the prosperity brought to his region by holiday-goers from elsewhere that he forgets the needs of the elderly? Why is an appeal now being made to the Government in terms of the motion to take urgent steps? Who is twisting the hon. member’s arm? Is it perhaps his own voters? Looking at the hon. member this morning and bearing in mind his good physical condition I can guess why there are so many needy elderly people in Durban Central. Taking everything into account, I therefore move as an amendment—

1. “(1) this House—
   1. (a) notes with thanks and appreciation the outstanding services rendered by the State and the community to the ever increasing number of elderly people in our society; and
   2. (b) wishes to lay particular stress on the extremely important part which the community will have to play in ever increasing measure in the care of and provision of services to the aged;
2. (2) this House, however, warns against the growing tendency on the part of the general public not to concern itself sufficiently with social problems in respect of the aged.”.

I state categorically this morning that the Government is not evading its responsibilities regarding the elderly. With the means at its disposal the State is doing everything in its power for the elderly. The majority of local authorities have also begun to wake up in the sense that they have a local responsibility towards the elderly. Similarly, a large proportion of the public complies with its responsibilities towards the elderly.

†We know what the needs of the aged are. I want to spell out those needs quite frankly: The need for an adequate income, the need for adequate accommodation, maintenance needs and the need to overcome poverty. Furthermore there are problems in so far as the minimum support levels and the supply of comprehensive services are concerned.

*We are fully aware that such needs exist and consequently I say that we cannot evade our responsibilities.

We also know and keep in mind what the statistics reveal in so far as the aged are concerned. Here too it is important to take note of that particularly because there has been a basic shift as regards the composition of modern society. In 1921 five out of every 100 Whites had reached the age of 60 years or older, giving a total of 81 000. In 1977 the number had risen to ten out of every hundred. According to predictions, by the year 2020 the number will be in the region of 1,5 million. Now we must ask ourselves what the life expectation of modern man is. In 1920 it was 55 years in the case of men, whereas in 1977 it had risen to 65 years. In the case of women it was 59 years in 1921 whereas it is now 73 years.

As far as the White population is concerned, there are at present 400 000 and the predictions are that by the year 2020, there will be 1,107 million. If, however, we look at the sum total of all elderly people in the Republic it appears that according to predictions, by the year 2020 there will be approximately 5,9 million of them. In this regard, however, I want to point out that the Government has long been aware of the prevailing needs with regard to the needs of the elderly, including the elderly people of other population groups who are the responsibility of the State. Including the Black States that are still to become independent, the number of elderly people will be approximately 5,9 million people by the year 2020, as I have already said. This of course means elderly people above the age of 60 years. In my opinion we are making a big mistake when we regard the elderly purely as people in the age group of over 60 years and have done with it. By doing so we are running the risk of dividing the lives of human beings into strict phases and seeing people purely as infants, adolescents, adults, middle-aged people or elderly people. Whether the elderly person is 60 or 100 years he is subject to certain legal restrictions. I want to propose that in the future we take full cognizance of the fact that a distinction must also be drawn among elderly people. We must do this as follows. In the first place there are those between 60 and 70 years, a group of people who are usually still able to lead a very positive and fruitful life and make a major contribution to society. Then, too, there is the group of between 75 and 85 to 90 years, of which a large proportion is still fairly mobile and can also make its contribution to society. Then there is a small group of elderly people, those who are very old, some of them even up to 110 years—to whom we may refer as infirm elderly people. As it happens I saw a photo of one of them in the newspaper only yesterday.

Looking at the composition of the population in this way, we are inclined to forget about the middle group of active people, those between 20 and 59 years. It is they who, as it were, carry the society. Today of course we encounter the trend that the growth rate of elderly people above the age of 60 years is growing more rapidly than is the case among the middle group, those who have to carry the heaviest burden, who not Only have to look after the elderly people older than 60 years, but also those below the age of 20 years. From this it is evident that the burden on this middle group is going to become progressively heavier in future. In other words this is not a one-sided burden resting on the elderly as a result of their age and the circumstances they live in, nor purely on the youth, from the viewpoint of their needs, but also in particular a burden—not in the negative sense of the word—on the responsible people, the functioning people in the society.

I have a number of statistical data here. However, I do not wish to go into them any further. It is just interesting, however, and I should like to draw the attention of the hon. member for Durban Central to this, that 67% of the Whites above 65 years were independent in 1960, that only 5% of them lived in homes at the time whereas 25% of them lived with family or friends. This is on the basis of statistics I obtained from the National Council for the Aged. What I mean by this is that the majority of elderly people are still intellectually and socially capable of making a contribution to the community. I wish to pay tribute in this regard to a number of elderly service officers whom we see among us here every day busy performing a very useful function. There are others, too, that are still able to perform very useful functions. Because we are too busy we tend not to notice and appreciate these people.

I have said before that a fundamental shift is taking place and we must anticipate it if we want to prevent problems in the future. When dealing with the group of elderly people above the age of 65 years we see that approximately 66% of them are still fit. Therefore, they can still move, work and make a contribution. 34% of the elderly are reasonably healthy and reasonably mobile. The so-called infirm elderly people comprise 8%. We must not forget that in the year 2 000 more than 1,5 million elderly people will be above the age of 60 years. In passing, the average age of applicants to old-age homes is at present 75 years. What does that tell us?

I also want to touch on the very important aspect that we must also consider the short pre-history of care of the aged, seen as a whole. I believe that the hon. member who introduced the debate will agree with me when I say that if we compare the situation in the Republic of South Africa with that in Europe we find that we have a history of only approximately 50 years in South Africa. This dates from the Poor White question of the twenties up to the present. In contrast, care of the aged in Europe dates from as far back as the 16th century. We have about 300 years’ leeway to make up. However, the Government has made up almost the entire leeway and in certain respects we already offer more than is the case abroad. History tells us that as early as 1665, Jan van Riebeeck gave orders that the needs of the elderly had to be given specific attention. Those needs have developed since then so that at present there is a network of services in all sectors and facets of society rendering service to these people. The Government can be very proud of the milestones that have been achieved and those that are still to be achieved. Act No. 22 of 1928, the Old Age Pensions Act passed by the NP, provides for a monthly State pensions on a non-contributory basis. I have in mind, too, the establishment of the National Council for the Aged in 1956. Act No. 81 of 1967, the Aged Persons Act, deals specifically with certain duties undertaken by the State in regard to elderly people. The Health Act of 1977, too, is specifically drafted with elderly people in mind.

I think it is very important that we should consider three aspects in particular this morning. I shall let that suffice. Firstly, all existing old-age homes and institutions for the elderly must open their doors to the older people in our community at large and enable them to share the facilities they offer. This will meet a tremendous need. In the second place I ask for reduced rates for those people above the age of 65 earning a salary of R200 or less. In the third place—and this is very important—a national pension scheme must be established.

†Mr. Speaker, a national pension scheme will give everybody, men and women, the opportunity to contribute towards a pension payable on their retirement. This is a deferred form of income and should be treated as such. Legislation should be introduced—and I do know that it is in the pipeline—to exercise strict control over the administration of pension schemes and to ensure acceptable minimum standards and the full transferability and preservation of pension contributions. I know that I shall be shouted down by some insurance companies and the private sector, but I certainly think it would be easier to introduce a national pension scheme than to try to rectify what is wrong with private pension schemes.

*What does the elderly person ask for? He wants to be independent but he is afraid of loneliness, he is afraid of rejection and he is afraid of losing his security. He also wants to be protected physically against dangers such as assaults. However, it is high time that the elderly person be educated, too, and that he should learn about the dangers involved in simply going out in the evening and strolling around. They must be taught to refrain from simply opening their door to anyone. They must see to their own safety. Many of the older people are careless.

I am grateful that we have been able to debate this matter this morning. I want to conclude by saying that what is heroic about the elderly people is best seen in the elderly person in a state of grace who goes home. That is what Schnitzler refers to when he speaks of the elderly person who has found peace with his God.

Mr. Speaker, we on these benches believe that the House is indebted to the hon. member for Durban Central for moving this motion and thus giving us the opportunity of discussing this matter. I cannot for one moment agree with the hon. member for Brits who said that the hon. member for Durban Central had not made a positive contribution. On the contrary, he has made a positive contribution and has highlighted the difficulties, as set out in his motion, which are indeed experienced. If anyone should have a guilt complex, I would say it should be the hon. member for Brits who, in moving his amendment, has tried to create the impression that the hands of the Government are clean and that it is in no way to blame for the situation which has developed. I am being extremely euphemistic when I say that we find it very difficult to understand the motivation behind such an amendment.

We are indebted to the hon. member for Durban Central because his motion embraces so many aspects of the alarming deterioration of the quality of life of elderly people who live in densely populated urban areas, only one of which is the occurrence of mugging. I did not expect the hon. member to go quite so far in his discussion of muggings, but nevertheless his points were well made. The motion also embraces facets such as molestation and hardships and suitable decent accommodation for elderly people and the urgent steps that need to be taken to alleviate these problems. These problems, of course, immediately bring to mind areas like Hillbrow, Soweto, Lenasia, Kliptown, Guguletu and Nyanga.

The motion before the House refers to elderly people. What is an elderly person? By definition an elderly person is anyone who is 10 years older than one is oneself. Since the youngest member of this House is 36 years old, by definition most of us are elderly people. For the sake of argument, however, I shall assume that the oldest member in this House is 50 years old, and therefore when I refer to elderly people I shall be referring to people who are 60 years of age or older. There are statistics available for people in this category, and according to these statistics, in 1975 there were some 460 000 Whites, 65 000 Coloureds, 26 000 Asians and 886 000 Blacks in South Africa who were over the age of 60.

Whose responsibility are these elderly people? Are they the responsibility of their families or the responsibility of the State? There is obviously a family responsibility in certain cases, but in other cases the aged are the responsibility of the State. I want to start by referring to the aged Whites. In a study on the aged, which I was fortunate enough to do in the USA, the UK and Europe, I found that the general approach, particularly in the USA, has been that the aged are senior citizens, that they have worked for the country and that they deserve the assistance of the community as a whole. It is felt that early retirement is not a good thing because people should be kept active, but that when these people do retire and are placed in homes and institutions, there should be a programme to keep them active and healthy at all times.

That is the approach that should be adopted. There are obviously the wealthy aged as well, people who can take care of themselves but whose families sometimes do not find it convenient for them to live with them. I think provision should also be made for them. Certain steps are, I believe, being taken, but I do not think enough is being done. The poor aged can find homes in the community, and the department provides funds at a very low rate of interest. The best example of the category of people we are speaking about today is to be found, however, amongst the approximately 13 028 White pensioners who get their pensions of R88 per month.

I want to use Hillbrow as an example because it is my constituency and does fit in with the motion we are discussing here today. It is a densely populated area where there are many elderly and aged widows, divorcees and single people who are lonely and scared. They are locked in their flats and do not open their doors when someone knocks. Hon. members who came to visit my constituency will bear me out when I say that when I once went out on a canvassing campaign, the people only opened their doors a fraction, keeping the chain on all the time. They do not easily let one in. Even when one introduces oneself, they are suspicious and do not believe one is who one says one is. That is how scared they are.

Why do you not show your identity card?

This is understandable when one bears in mind all the muggings that take place in lifts and in the streets. In answer to a question put in this House I was, in fact, told that at the end of June 1975 there were 1 230 cases of assault with intent. At the end of June 1976 there were 1 338, whilst at the end of June 1977 the figure had risen to 1 379. This is an incidence of approximately four per day or one every six hours. It is obvious that it is difficult, if not impossible, for these aged to defend themselves. Police raids in the area could cause a drop in the crime rate, but such raids have normally been carried out after offences have been committed, and so that has not been much help. My information is that crime is still on the increase.

So what is the answer? The answer is the reintroduction of the policeman on the beat. This is something we have advocated on previous occasions but nothing seems to have been done. We have called for regular policing and for certain policemen to be placed permanently in certain precincts so that they get to know the areas. We have also called for mobile police units, using vehicles of any kind, so that the police can get around quickly. Instead of just concentrating on past offenders, what the police should, in fact, be concentrating on are gambling, shebeens and prostitution, all of which reduce the quality of life, not only of the aged, of course, but of everyone. I received a letter which is now in the possession of the hon. the Minister of Police, a letter in which a woman invites the police to sit on her balcony and watch the prostitution, gambling and mugging that goes on across the street, this being a daily occurrence in that area.

Hillbrow is very vital and alive. It is the Soho of South Africa and should stay that way, but the maintenance of law and order is the responsibility of this Government and the Government is falling down on its job. Let us help the defenceless and the aged.

This motion also makes mention of molestations, and in this regard I want to refer to the landlord-tenant relationship. I have received many complaints about rent increases. The fact is that many elderly people have fixed incomes, either pensions or fixed investments. In spite of already having received the 10% increase, what is going to happen to these people in two years time, because by then the benefit of such an increase would virtually have been neutralized. Such an increase is only of limited value because rent control is fast being removed. These people, on their limited pensions or fixed investments, must face rent increases and the increasing cost of living, especially the increasing cost of food. They simply cannot make ends meet. They cannot pay their way and there is no way of subsidizing them. This is also reducing the quality of life, and I call upon the Department of Community Development to carry out a survey of pensioners and other elderly people to determine their incomes and expenses and to see whether the formula, which stipulates that rents should not exceed 25% of people’s incomes, is being adhered to.

I believe that we should protect people by seeing to it that there is no more than one rent increase per year because I have received many complaints indicating that repeated rent increase applications are made to the Rent Board by certain landlords in the space of a year. This matter certainly needs investigation. I think we should look at the French system. There, without any stigma being attached to anyone, people who cannot pay their way receive State subsidies, unknown to their neighbours or anyone else, so that they can pay their rent. We talk of the hardships involved in finding decent, suitable accommodation, yet the Minister has harassed the non-White people living in empty buildings in Hillbrow, Yeoville and such areas while the landlords and the tenants of buildings in those areas have made no objection whatsoever to their living there. Many of them are elderly people and they are being chased out of those areas. We are merely dealing with consequences and not the reason why this has happened which is that the department has not met its responsibility of supplying sufficient accommodation all over.

Do you find it strange that the Government implements the Act?

There are prosecutions in regard to this state of affairs, but who are the complainants? To my knowledge they are in many instances not the people living in other buildings in the area, but the members of the National Front who have taken it upon themselves to visit the flats to find out where non-Whites are living and then to complain to the police, the Rent Board and others. Although they do not even live in the area concerned, they are the ones who are causing this hardship and the harassment to which the hon. the Minister of Community Development is not subjecting them. I want to draw the attention of the House to the fact that members of the NP in the city council of Johannesburg were party to a resolution taken at the last council meeting condemning this action and asking for a stay of eviction for these people until proper accommodation is found for all of them. The root cause must be removed.

The quality of life of elderly people should also be improved by removing another source of complaints, that of excessive noise. Buzzbikes driving by all night, motor-cars hooting at night and so on disturb their sleep. This is a health hazard and it is nerve-racking. The solution is very simple. I think we should consider applying the Palo Alto law, a very simple law which merely provides that anyone making a noise exceeding by 10 decibels the average noise level in a particular area is guilty of an offence. If we were to nationalize that law, I believe we would be doing a lot to relieve this terrible problem of noise.

However, Mr. Speaker, one does not find elderly people only among the Whites; not only Whites live in densely populated areas; not only Whites are molested and suffer hardships to find decent accommodation— there are also the Blacks. In Alexandra Township, for instance, all family accommodation is to be eliminated. Where are the aged to go? Single men and women are to be placed in hostels in seven areas, in each of which eight hostels are to be built. In 1972 there were hostels for 2 600 men and also 600 women. Now there are hostels for 3 000 men. What has happened to the aged? What has happened to the 11 000 families who have been in Alexandra Township since 1963? In Soweto there are 10 000 families on the waiting-list and in respect of accommodation there is a backlog of 22 000 over and above the extra 2 000 units required each year. Where are the aged there? The Vaal Triangle has a backlog of 5 000.

I want to remind the House that the former Minister of Plural Relations and Development, Dr. Connie Mulder, on 1 May 1978 said the following—

Where is the evidence of this? I did not hear the hon. member for Brits, in praising the Government, tell the House what steps have been taken. On the contrary, the people in the townships are suffering very much. I hear that the urban council now has a new plan for Soweto. We want to know whether in this plan proper provision is made for the aged to improve the quality of life of all of them there. We want to call for a survey to be made to report on the plight of the aged.

The aged have for instance been hit by rent increases amounting to 225% since October 1978 in the eight Witwatersrand centres. In Nyanga, Langa and Guguletu rents went up by 100%. Where are they to get the extra income from to meet these increases? It may be a small amount to some people, but not to them. There are approximately 185 000 pensioners drawing R23,75 per month. When they go to collect their pensions, they form what has been described as the “queue of shame” because they can only collect their pensions on one day once in every two months. The Whites are more fortunate in that they can collect theirs once a month on one of three days. What is more, if they cannot go, they can send someone else, whilst the Blacks have to furnish a certificate as to why they could not go. This is not the way to treat these people. The quality of life of these people must be improved by the hon. the Minister and other members of the Cabinet. There are 65 000 Coloureds there and there is a housing shortage of 4 700 units. Though 60 000 Coloureds live in Johannesburg, Jordan House accommodates only 96 Coloureds and Frederick Place only 50 Coloureds. That is not enough. Nor is Ennerdale, the new city to be built, adequate to provide for the aged people. I therefore think more provision must be made in this respect.

As far as the Indian population is concerned, I am sure my colleague, the hon. member for Musgrave, will deal with their position. We do know, however, that in Lenasia alone there is a shortage of 2 000 houses. We also know that Indian families like to keep their elderly people with them, but this leads to overcrowding, and I think the situation must be looked at very carefully.

The main problem is the rising cost of living, especially such aspects as rent, food and clothing, and they cannot match their expenses to their income. South Africa’s senior citizens deserve better treatment. They have contributed towards present welfare and the prosperous state of the nation. They deserve the best so let us give it to them.

As far as the local authorities are concerned, let me say that they have very limited jurisdiction. As a result of the findings of the Hoek Commission, in the Transvaal they are not allowed to do any welfare work at all. They can only provide houses through the Department of Social Welfare and Pensions. The policing has to be done by the Government. The noise abatement bureaux of each local authority have, it is true, played a big part in controlling noise levels, but for some reason Johannesburg has not kept its end up. Therefore, while I agree with the motion proposed by the hon. member for Durban Central, I believe we should go just a step further, and perhaps he will assist us in doing so. I therefore move the following amendment—

1. (a) rent increases;
2. (b) the distribution of pensions;
3. (c) police protection;
4. (d) noise abatement; and
5. (e) the general welfare of the aged.”.

Mr. Speaker, I am convinced that there is not a single hon. member in this House who will find fault with the aim of this motion if he is sincerely concerned about the lot of our old people. We may differ about the methods, and that is why various amendments have been moved today, but eventually what it all—even the amendment by the hon. member for Hillbrow—comes down to, is that we would like something to be done about the lot of our elderly people.

This motion refers to two aspects. Firstly, there is the question of muggings and molestation, and secondly, the question of housing. It is to be deplored that our elderly people, too, should fall prey to these ruffians and layabouts who operate in our urban areas in particular. However, we should consider where these muggings take place. The hon. member for Durban Central referred to this. They usually take place in the poorer residential areas, the slum areas, of our urban complexes. These things take place in the narrow, poorly-lit streets and passageways. Unfortunately, these are also the areas in which many of our elderly necessarily have to live because their financial position is such that they are unable to live in other places. The same slum areas are, incidentally, also where the layabouts and ruffians stay.

I took the trouble to look at the data on muggings in my own city over a period of three months. I came to the conclusion that to a large extent they are not limited to muggings of elderly people. The hon. member for Durban Central also mentioned this. We have heard about the number of middle-aged people, young people, businessmen, professional people and even women— we also heard that the women are apparently better able to defend themselves than the men—who have been attacked in those areas. It is not necessary, therefore, to dwell on the problem that our elderly people are necessarily the only people who are assaulted. I repeat: They are assaulted because they find themselves in those areas where they necessarily have to live due to their financial circumstances. The solution as far as muggings are concerned is obvious. There must be more constables and more Police reservists. If I may introduce this matter here, I just want to say that I think that the public, the people in the various residential areas, particularly the men, ought to make themselves available to assist the South African Police. Then we shall be able to solve this problem as well.

The biggest problem, however, is the quality of life, the standard of living of elderly people. This is determined firstly by their financial position, secondly by neglect and thirdly by self-isolation. As far as the financial position is concerned, a great deal has already been said in this House about the pensions of our elderly people. The pensions they get are inadequate. Here I have in mind in particular our old-age pensioners and those pensioners who receive private pensions and worked at a time when pension schemes were not yet popular and sometimes did not even exist, or belonged to such a scheme for a short period only. Usually they contributed towards such a scheme when their income was low. Therefore, their contributions were low and consequently their benefits are low as well. Last week I referred to the means test and I think I must refer to it again and say that the means test makes it impossible for these people to maintain a decent standard of living. The cost of their own housing makes it impossible for the pensioners to live in a good area. The housing of this class of person is becoming more and more of a problem because there are pensioners who have obtained their own property over the years, responsible people who have seen to it that they obtain their own house, but now that they are on pension, now when they are old, this property begins to become a burden for them instead of an asset. I am not critisizing the municipalities because they levy rates. They must levy rates; it is their duty to do so. However, in a debate here yesterday the hon. member for Bellville made recommendations concerning other methods that could be adopted. We must go into the matter to see how we can afford relief to house-owner pensioners so that they are not evicted from their own homes. We must make it possible for them to stay there because while the man is in his own house he is not a burden on the local authority or the State.

Another matter to which I want to refer is that we must see to it that our healthy elderly people are kept busy. The hon. member for Brits also referred to that. He referred in particular to our service officers in this Parliament. The trend is to tell a healthy man at too early a stage in his life that he has to retire. We must make use of the services of these people.

The second cause of the problem is neglect. The biggest culprits as far as this is concerned, are the family of the elderly people. To some of us it is an honour and a privilege to have our elderly people with us, but to other people it is a burden. These people must change their approach. Some communities are responsible for exclusion of old people from community activities. That too is a mistake. We must not make them feel that they are not important and that we do not want them there.

Self-isolation is the fault of the elderly person himself in that he feels self-pity and isolates himself from the community and holds himself aloof from the community. I think that every community could contribute a great deal towards making these people feel that they are still part of society and still play a role. I agree that steps must be taken and therefore I support the motion. However, I want to qualify this by saying that further steps must be taken since I do not wish to intimate that steps are not being taken or are not still being taken. If we wish to do something about it we must investigate the matter further. I want to point out that we must start with our local authorities, because if there is a problem for the elderly people in a specific community, particularly as far as the standard of living and housing is concerned, then in my opinion the fault lies with the local authority which does not take the initiative.

I want to pay tribute and give credit where credit is due; therefore I avail myself of this opportunity this morning to give credit to the Department of Community Development. I do this because I myself have been intimately involved in this problem for a number of years and I have an understanding of the problems in my area. I am also aware of the aid and support we have had from the Department of Community Development. Indeed, we found that the hon. the Minister and the officials were at all times eager to grant financial aid to local bodies to overcome the problems. Last week we went on a tour to view the activities of the Department of Community Development. Among other things, we looked at housing schemes and while we were doing so, one of the officials made a joke by saying that he hoped that the present Minister would remain with the department for always. Although he saw it as a joke, I want to say that if I were to use those words, I would mean them sincerely because with his helpful attitude, the hon. the Minister has brought about large-scale changes in the department to enable local authorities to see to proper housing.

I can surely refer to an example—it could not do any harm, after all—by indicating what can be done by a local authority if it shows the necessary initiative. I want to refer to the local authorities in my area. Port Elizabeth is a city with many old people. In the city there are many areas needing renewal and one comes across many old people in the circumstances we are discussing now. However, the municipality approached the Department of Community Development and today there are five schemes for Whites and three for Coloureds within the municipal area of Port Elizabeth. The schemes entail a total of 1 041 dwelling units, constructed at a cost of R2,708 million and accommodating 1 577 elderly people. This may not sound like a large number, but if one compares it pro rata with the population one finds that Port Elizabeth sets all cities an example. Port Elizabeth has made use of the facilities at its disposal.

What I have just referred to was achieved by the municipality, but in the municipal area and the regions surrounding Port Elizabeth, other organizations such as the ACVV, the churches, the Red Cross and St. Johns have established no fewer than 19 institutions for the accommodation of the aged. I point this out because I believe that there are organizations in other areas, too, that should take the initiative. They too will find that the door of the Department of Community Development will be open to them.

I want to avail myself of this opportunity to invite hon. members who have problems in their areas to come and look at what has been done in my area. They are very welcome to come and look at what has been achieved there.

However, there is more to it than merely putting a roof over the head of an elderly person; I have already said that one must involve him in the community. One must make him feel that he forms part of the community. Therefore it is not sufficient merely to provide him with a house. In Port Elizabeth the municipality performs welfare services and in this regard I should like to break a lance for the University of Port Elizabeth, since second- and third-year students as well as the lecturing staff involve themselves in the problems of our elderly people. They render social services and carry out research work among the elderly. They do something of vital importance, viz. they keep our elderly people really active. Let me say it frankly: One must try to keep old people young, because as long as someone is young he looks after himself. As long as he remains young, he takes care of himself. [Interjections.]

Look at the hon. member for Standerton!

I have the hon. member for Standerton in mind in particular; he must definitely keep himself active and young. These students and lecturing staff take a lively interest in what goes on among the elderly people in those communities. They see to the needs of those people. They see to it that those people take part themselves in the management and control of their institutions. They give them advice. They keep them active by means of productions, not merely to provide them with entertainment, but also by affording them the opportunity to take part in productions themselves. They arrange outings. These are things which cause the elderly people to feel that they are still appreciated and there are still people who are pleased that there are elderly people in their community.

Another aspect of housing for the elderly is this: We must try to get away from the idea that elderly people must be accommodated in old-age homes run along the lines of a hostel. There are many elderly people who do not like this. In particular there are those who have lived in a house of their own throughout their lives. When such an elderly person is eventually obliged to leave his home it is by no means good for him or his welfare to put him in a room at that point. We should rather adopt the system that is being adopted in my area. This is the establishment of living complexes, flatlets in which elderly couples can live and can feel that they are still in fact living on their own, or bachelor quarters in which an elderly person can live alone without feeling that he is cooped up in a hostel. This is the kind of development we need. In this way we can create a community feeling among those people. Recreation facilities must also be provided for them. When a municipality gets so far as to build a dwelling complex for elderly people it must also see to it that facilities are provided. I have in mind one such dwelling complex at which even a snooker room has been provided. Of course, I do not know whether there is a snooker table. That is just in passing. However, the snooker room has been built and people will be able to entertain themselves there one day.

My time is almost up. I want to point out that when I refer to the investigations that have to be instituted, I am not expressing criticism or pointing a finger; merely making a request that further investigations be instituted and that further relief, if possible, be afforded to those people who need it so much.

Mr. Speaker, I should like to agree with the previous speaker when he states that this motion concerns the accommodation, the care and the safeguarding of our elderly people. However, I want to object at once to one thing which the hon. member for Port Elizabeth Central said. That is his statement that elderly people think that they are cooped up in old-age homes. I shall come back to that again later.

I also agree that this very important matter must be debated here. However, we should really be a little more positive than the hon. members for Durban Central and Hillbrow were. In my opinion they stated the case so negatively that the whole matter could be a poor testimonial, not only for certain cities, but perhaps for our country as a whole.

Actually I wish to lend my full support to the amendment proposed so clearly and well by the hon. member for Brits. Pleas have been made here for an enlarged Police force. In that regard I must agree. However, we must remember that in this country as well we will always have our pro rata percentage of ruffians. Appeals have also been made for the State and local authorities to have a bigger share in the accommodation of our elderly people. This is already being done. I want to concentrate in particular on our pensioners. They are a group of people including women above the age of 60 years and men above the age of 65 years. They are wonderful people and have contributed their share to the development of this country, this people and the economy in their lifetime. Not through their own doing, but due to circumstances, they are not in a position to be economically self-reliant. These people have nothing to be ashamed of and nothing to feel inferior about. They contributed their share in the past.

At the end of the previous financial year there were 137 949 of these people. During the same period the State paid them pensions amounting to R128 304 000. This amount represents an increase of R13 500 000 as against the previous year. The reason is that the number of pensioners increased by 3 500 and also that an increased pension was paid. In 1968 there were 98 000 of these old people. At that stage an amount of R35½ million was paid to them. This means that the number of pensioners increased by 40% in the period from 1968 to 1978, viz. 10 years. The payments to them as a contribution to a decent life increase by 250%. I therefore maintain that the State is in fact doing its duty in this regard.

I know that people do not like listening to statistics, but if this matter is to be placed in the correct perspective, then figures must unfortunately be provided. The majority of these people to whom I refer live in their own or in hired houses until the day of their death. Many of them land up at some stage with their children or family. This is a very fine way of accommodating and looking after our elderly people. That is as it should be. I cannot imagine that a child could neglect his responsibility towards his parents. However, since so many women have to work at present due to the high standard of living, it quite often happens that these old people land up in institutions for the aged. These institutions are going to be very much more popular in the future. Many of these institutions make flatlets and the smaller type of house to which the hon. member for Port Elizabeth Central referred, available. However, it seems as if institutions where the healthy, ill and infirm old people are cared for in three separate sections under the same roof, are becoming more and more popular.

One can look at what the State is doing for these people. Firstly I want to bring to the attention of hon. members that at present there are approximately 700 almost totally infirm old people in our country. These 700 people are cared for in eight old-age homes, all of which belong to the State. The four other old-age homes belong to a private firm, Smith, Mitchell and Co., where elderly people are cared for in return for payment by the State. These 700 very infirm people are looked after until the day of their death to the best of the State’s ability. By way of comparison I want to mention that there are 89 private institutions for elderly people registered in our country. These 89 private institutions make provision for 3 787 elderly people who, due to their financial position, are not a burden on the State. The State has made a contribution to the establishment of institutions where a further 3 150 elderly people, who are not a burden on the State either, are accommodated. Then there are 294 institutions that are not self-supporting. The State must subsidize these 294 institutions with an amount of approximately R10 million per annum. In these 294 institutions for elderly people, there are 15 448 elderly people of whom 9 168 are infirm. From the time that the National Housing Fund came into being until the end of the 1977-’78 financial year, the State has contributed an amount of R90 600 000 in the form of loans for the construction of such institutions. This has been done at an interest rate of 1%, which is in fact less than the administration costs which the loans involve. I just want to add that the State suffers a loss of interest of approximately R15 million annually due to the construction of these buildings. In 1978 there were still 57 institutions for the elderly under construction for which loans had been provided. I therefore wish to maintain that the State is in fact doing its full duty as regards these people.

Sir, we do not wish to become a welfare State. It will always be expected of the private sector to contribute its share to the accommodation, care and safeguarding of our elderly people. As far as the housing of these elderly people is concerned there is the finest co-operation among the voluntary welfare organizations, service organizations, churches, local authorities and the State. It would be a great pity if this balance were to be disturbed by a misrepresentation of the State’s contribution in regard to these people.

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Springs has given an indication of some of the assistance rendered to elderly people by the State. I will touch on some of the issues he has raised during the course of my speech. Sir, we are indebted to the hon. member for Durban Central for moving this motion. We are dealing with an important subject, affecting as it does the lives of many thousands of South Africans of all races.

I believe that one of the yardsticks by which one measures the extent to which a nation is entitled to call itself civilized, is the manner in which it treats its senior citizens, and I want to look at South Africa from that point of view during the course of my remarks this morning. I do not want to become involved in the kind of argument we often have across the floor of the House about whether this Government does more for elderly people than other Governments have done, nor do we want any other discussion of that kind.

I think that all of us would agree that when we are dealing with a matter relating to the senior citizens of our country, it should be treated as a matter that transcends normal party political differences, and if, in the course of my remarks, I am critical of our national approach to the elderly, it should be seen as a general criticism, applying perhaps to all of us. There can surely be no one in this House this morning who would suggest—and I include even the most enthusiastic of the Government supporters—that the situation of the elderly does not need constant review and improvement. I think that all of us basically realize that this is a problem which the country has, in fact which any community has, and I think all of us would want to see the maximum done to assist the elderly with whatever problems may concern them. In the course of my remarks I do not want to suggest either—and I agree with what has been said by other speakers in this regard— that there are not thousands of South Africans with a social conscience as far as the elderly are concerned. I think that that fact is emphasized by the splendid work done by any number of voluntary welfare organizations, and certainly voluntary assistance to the elderly is very much part and parcel of our society. Though I pay tribute to the people who do give their time and their energy to this sort of work, much more is needed.

I think that there is a desperate need for a co-ordinated effort involving the Government, the local authorities and voluntary welfare organizations in order to provide some sort of charter for senior citizens in South Africa. It must be a charter to coordinate services for the elderly and to provide for their needs, having regard to the totality of the problem. I believe, as I say, that this has to be a partnership effort involving the Government, local authorities and voluntary welfare organizations. We can talk about muggings and molestation, and we can talk about accommodation problems— and these are certainly significant, being important factors at the present time—but there are many other areas of distress for the elderly, distress areas involving their quality of life, and I believe that there is a desperate need to deal with this problem in its totality. Society must be made conscious of the difficulties.

In my view elderly people do not want to be regarded as a problem and they do not want to be a burden to society. They want to be independent and to enjoy their retirement. They are the mothers and fathers of the nation, and for the most part they have earned their right to respect and their right to live out the twilight of their lives in comfort and peace. This is certainly what the rest of society owes them, and nothing less.

Generally I think their problems stem from insecurity and loneliness. I think these are major factors in the lives of many elderly people. The insecurity may be financial, it may result from the muggings and molestations to which the hon. member for Durban Central has referred or it may be insecurity which results from concern about the accommodation situation, but generally it is an insecurity which stems from just getting old, from the realization that one’s own generation is shrinking, that one’s contemporaries are dwindling and that one is living in a strange world controlled and influenced by other generations. There is, of course, also the problem of sheer loneliness to which I have referred. I know any number of elderly people, some of them widows without families, who live almost from one week to the next without seeing a single friend. I certainly think that that is a problem that effects the quality of life of these people. I have already spoken about the attempts we should make to alleviate this sort of situation and I have also spoken about the need for a charter for senior citizens.

I want to deal with some aspects which I think should be studied in formulating such a charter. We must not be afraid to draw on the experience and example of other societies, other countries. Firstly, one must look at the question of financial support, particularly in so far as it affects people who rely solely on their pensions and do not have other financial means and who in the latter years of their lives find it very difficult to make ends meet with their incomes. Pension allowances are always inadequate. We know this. No matter how successive Governments may improve pensions and successive Ministers of Finance may review pensions, pension allowances are always inadequate. I think that, so far as the pensioners are concerned, they are also faced with the problem that they are uncertain about future increments to their pensions. There are, it is true, ad hoc increases from time to time, but pensioners are in any case always shackled by the means test which, despite constant changes in the value of money, has provided for a fixed amount over a number of years. As regards the financial position of pensioners, one can draw a comparison with the situation that exists in the United Kingdom. It is interesting to note that there the Government is obliged by legislation to continue to consider increases in pensions at least annually in line with percentage increases in prices or in the average earnings of the ordinary individual, whichever is the more beneficial to the pensioner. The pensioner there, therefore, has the guarantee that each year his pension allowance is going to be reconsidered and raised depending on the value of money to bring him into line with the average earnings of the wage earners in the country.

Are you suggesting we do that here as well?

I think it is the sort of thing one should look at. The hon. member for Brits spoke earlier about a national pension scheme and I was encouraged by his reference to that. I think one has to provide for some sort of situation whereby the pensioner will at least know with some degree of certainty that his pension is going to be increased from time to time to link up with his increased living costs. Again looking at the example of the United Kingdom, it is interesting to note that in 1973 the gap between pensions and average earnings was such that the pension of a single pensioner was about a quarter of the average earnings taken home by the individual. By 1975 it was near to one-third. There is therefore a constant improvement in the position, a constant narrowing of the gap.

The provision is made for a generous attendance allowance for those elderly people who need care and attention. This is something else I think we should consider in South Africa. There are any number of elderly people here who need care and attention and who do not have the means with which to get that care and attention. In the United Kingdom provision is also made for a supplementary pension to bring the pensioner up to a guaranteed weekly level to enable him to meet his day-to-day living expenses. In addition there is, as in other countries, generous consideration given to pensioners by local authorities and other agencies in regard to the payment of rates. One of the previous speakers spoke about this burden on elderly people. As I have said, in some cases they are given a very generous consideration in regard to the payment of rates. In some cases, too, provision is made for them to receive rent allowances if they cannot cope with the rent they have to pay. These are matters which I believe could be considered in a charter for senior citizens.

Then there is the whole question of health services. We know that there is a degree of medical aid given to elderly people at most of our major hospitals. There are, however, many gaps in the sort of aid that is given. In this regard one thinks again of the example of other countries where prescribed medicines, spectacles and hearing aids are free to social pensioners. Dental treatment and dentures are also provided free. Again, this is the sort of thing to which we should be giving attention because these matters contribute to the real hardship of those people who have to rely entirely on their old-age pensions in order to exist. In this regard one thinks generally of hospitalization and clinic services which should also be given consideration. I think it should be the aim to make such services more freely available to pensioners.

Then, of course, there is the whole question of social services. I believe that local authorities should take the lead in trying to assist elderly people to stay on, as far as possible, in their own accommodation. I think it is generally conceded by people who have studied these matters that it is far better for elderly people to remain in their own environment and only at the very end or in special circumstances to move to some form of institution or old-age home. In this regard local authorities could provide assistance as they do in other countries where local authorities provide such services either directly or through welfare agencies. Such services include giving elderly people domestic help, sitters-in, night attendants, a laundry service, meals and so on.

I think this could be a very practical, definite and positive contribution towards making it possible for people to remain in their own environment.

Another matter I want to raise in the limited time at my disposal, is the question of local authorities primarily, and perhaps Government agencies too, paying more attention to the needs of elderly people in their use of public buildings, and in this regard one thinks particularly of their access to public buildings. Very often there are steps which people who have to rely on a wheelchairs or walking aids cannot negotiate. In other countries one now very often sees buildings having to conform to particular standards. There has to be some sort of a ramp leading into a building, so that invalids or elderly people do not have to climb stairs. These are some of the matters which should be looked at.

Then there is the whole question of housing that also has to be given consideration. I dealt with the one aspect of allowing people to remain in their own environment—and I think this is a very definite problem—but I also want to refer to leisure activities. In this regard one thinks of radio and television, which are vital sources of entertainment for elderly people. [Interjections.] Well, we may disagree on the programmes and the standard of programmes.

They have no choice.

They have no choice, I agree, but even if an elderly person sitting at home has only the SATV to look at and local radio programmes to listen to, that is better than nothing. These services play a vital part in the lives of these elderly people. I certainly do believe that more attention should be given to the type of programme for elderly people. I also believe that greater assistance should be given to the question of licences so that these people are able to afford these facilities.

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Musgrave has dealt with a number of positive aspects involving the improvement of the quality of life of the elderly citizens of this country. I agree with him, of course, but I must just point out that a number of the suggestions he made are already being put into force by some welfare organizations which are being prevented from extending their operations by the fact that they have to rely on the State, to a great extent, for the necessary funds. The hon. member for Durban Central has moved this motion, and I think all of us in this House should be grateful to him for having done so and appreciate the fact that this provides an opportunity for many hon. members to put forward various positive suggestions such as those put forward by the hon. member for Musgrave.

The question of the increase in crimes such as mugging and molestation, and their effect on the elderly section of the community, is one which deserves serious consideration. If one takes into account figures recently supplied to the House in reply to a question by the hon. member for Houghton, one is certainly alarmed at the tremendous overall increase in violent crime in South Africa. I also feel, however, that there are other aspects we have to consider. We find that younger people are more often involved in crime than in the past. We also find that other factors are involved, such as a lack of proper housing, proper town planning and proper educational and recreational facilities. It would appear that the time has come for the hon. the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions to consider the instigation of a thorough sociological investigation into the reasons for the high violent crime rate in South Africa at the present time. I believe that this is an important problem to which the hon. the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions should give serious consideration. Obviously there always will be crime in society. Knowing what human beings are, it is impossible to believe that there could ever be a totally crime-free society. However, every effort should be made to approach this whole problem on a long-term basis and to find ways of preventing crime. I believe that in this respect the hon. the Minister can play a very positive role in tackling this problem, especially the long-term aspect of crime prevention.

I now want to refer to the position of the older folk who have been suffering as a result of this increase in crime. The hon. member for Durban Central referred to a number of cases in which older people, particularly widows, are often completely defenceless and have fallen prey to criminal elements in the country.

In many instances the older people, of course, do fall prey to this because of their circumstances and because of the necessity of living in depressed urban areas. Some have to live in old buildings whose condition has sadly deteriorated. In some cases the landlords will not proceed with the improvement of those buildings because they are hoping to get a demolition order at a later stage. Other elderly people have been subjected to rent increases, as the hon. member for Hillbrow quite rightly pointed out, and even if a building is a rent-controlled building it does not offer the security that it perhaps offered in the past. This is the result of increases in rent determinations brought about by increased rates and other factors. Therefore the landlord has had to ask for, and receives, a higher rental for certain properties that are often occupied by older people.

It is interesting to note that a survey done recently amongst members of the White community over the age of 65 years indicated that 83% of the elderly people are living in urban areas today. Consequently, a large number of them are concentrated in those urban areas. This survey also indicated that the numbers of older people living with their families and their children have decreased over the years. According to this survey there are now only 21% of those people over 65 years of age who are living with their children and families, just over 8% living in old-age homes or other institutions, while 71% are living independently. We know that a large number of older people wish to live independently for as long as possible, but that there are various reasons why they have to seek other accommodation. This whole question of providing suitable accommodation for our senior citizens is one which causes a great deal of concern to welfare organizations, mainly because of the lack of funds and also because they are often overwhelmed by the demand for such accommodation. In most of our large urban areas there are long waiting lists of people trying to gain access to such accommodation. A recent survey of those applicants, done in Durban by one of the largest organizations in the country, showed that a large number of these people were applying for accommodation for economic reasons, because of failing health, in order to have security for their remaining days or because of the fear of having to live alone in a house or a flat. Basically these were the four main reasons why many of these people had made application for accommodation.

The fear of living alone in a flat or house is a very real one, especially as far as widows are concerned. Efforts have been made, by churches and welfare organizations, to assist some of these people who are often afraid that when they collect their pensions from the post office they might be robbed or mugged, and that is why there is an organization in Cape Town known as Pensioners’ Protection, a group which provides transport for pensioners on pay-out days so that they fetch their pensions from the various post offices in safety. Pensioners have expressed the fear that there is a very real risk of mugging and bag-snatching on such occasions. The very real fears of many of these people when walking in the streets after having collected their pensions are evidenced by the need for these organizations that are providing some assistance and protection for them, and the community has also come forward to assist them. It is hoped that other organizations in other parts of the Republic will also provide some service of a similar nature.

People living in older buildings are also faced with tremendous rent increases and increased living costs, and those living in hotels and boarding houses find themselves in a similar situation due to increased tariffs. Then there are those who are perhaps not receiving any form of social pension and are wholly dependent on their investments. They now view with alarm the trend of decreasing interest rates. Owing to these reduced interest rates they have a decreasing income with which to meet the problem of an increasing rate of inflation. So their dilemma is a very real one.

Many of these people do try to find other accommodation, but because they are unable to find suitable accommodation, they have to reduce their standard of living. Their quality of life is then altered. That is another aspect which has certainly received serious consideration amongst welfare workers. It has been found in Durban—and I am sure that this can be done in other parts of the country as well—that in order to keep these people in their environments the welfare organizations have been buying up existing blocks of flats or hotels, of course with the assistance of Government funds made available for the purpose. This meets the very real problem of old person not wanting to be shut off from the community by being placed in some institution or some home for the aged, 50 or 60 km away from their natural environment and from their friends and relatives. It has been possible to purchase buildings and to convert them to meet the needs and requirements of the older people. It provides them with security, they have a telephone service operating 24 hours a day, there is always a guard or watchman on duty and they have a feeling of security in the knowledge that in their remaining days they will be well looked after in such places.

In this regard I want to urge the hon. the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions to see to it that the Government makes available more funds so that welfare organizations can, from time to time, take advantage of the possibilities that do exist by purchasing existing buildings and renovating and converting them, where necessary, to meet certain standards because certain standards must obviously be set in this regard. Such additional funds will ensure that these welfare organizations are able to procure such buildings and to maintain them according to the set standards. There is, to my mind, an important role the Government can play in assisting these people in the purchasing of existing buildings situated in the main central areas. For those who are not fortunate enough to be living in a home for the aged where they can receive attention, it is necessary to provide support services such as meals-on-wheels and home help services. These are two vital components of any service centre. In this respect a restriction in the availability of funds, is also a factor. That is why I maintain that the Government can play a greater role, for instance in financing these service centres. I think the hon. member for Brits suggested the opening of old-age homes to admit more people for other purposes, etc. This has been done by a number of welfare organizations that administer old-age homes and have their service centres within the precincts of those homes. This system has proved to be highly successful, but it is costly. The subsidization of service centres is another matter that requires urgent attention from the Government.

The concept of keeping people in the community is one that is accepted by all welfare workers as being the ideal. Sufficient funds have to be available, however, to bring about such a situation. Services such as meals-on-wheels and home help are means of making contact with these people, and it is often found that they require more urgent attention. Urgent cases can then be admitted to various homes for the aged.

The motion deals with the elderly citizens, yet I immediately think of those of really advanced years who are more than 80 years old and of the tremendous difficulties they have in trying to find accommodation in any of the available old-age homes. Many organizations do not admit applicants who have already attained an age of 80 years. These are therefore the people who need assistance from the community, the Government and from everybody else in order to see that they are given the necessary security for their remaining days.

The question of an attendant’s allowance was also mentioned. In 1965 the Government introduced an attendant’s allowance amounting to R10 a month. This has, of course, been of great assistance to those people who require some help and are able to produce a medical certificate stating that they are unable to live alone without some sort of assistance. That amount of R10 a month has, however, remained unaltered since 1965. I am sure that the hon. member for Brits will agree that it is unsatisfactory that this amount of R10 a month, which is to assist people in failing health who have to live alone, has remained unaltered since 1965. This is a matter that requires urgent attention, and I hope that the hon. the Minister—particularly as he is also the Minister of Health—will appreciate that that R10 a month, which was worth something in 1965, is worth little more than nothing in 1979. So this certainly requires the urgent assistance of the Government.

I do not want to become involved in a discussion of the means test because my time is limited and the Whip is already sitting next to me. I should just like to say that I sincerely hope that the hon. the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions has succeeded in persuading the hon. the Minister of Finance to make available sufficient funds to relax the means test, which has remained unaltered since 1972. The ceiling limit for a single person is only R82. If a person receives more than R82 a month, as a private pension or from any other source, he is disqualified from receiving any old-age pension whatsoever. An increasing number of people are living alone today, and it has been estimated that 71% of pensioners live independently, receiving small private pensions—perhaps their late husbands paid for these pensions, or they are widows’ benefits—of just more than the ceiling limit of R82 a month. Only the other day I heard of a case of someone receiving a widow’s pension of R85 a month, and she had been receiving the same amount for more than 10 years. In that time her rent has escalated from R26 a month to R70 a month, but still she is not entitled to any assistance whatsoever from the department Because her income exceeds R82 a month, she has to live off the R85 a month which a private pension brings her.

These figures have become hopelessly outdated and antiquated. It requires the urgent attention of the Government. The hon. the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions is in the House today. He is listening to this debate and I am sure he realizes this. I have sympathy with him because I know he has to have sufficient funds which must be provided by the hon. the Minister of Finance. I hope he will manage to persuade the hon. the Minister of Finance to come to the assistance of this needy group of people. When the hon. the Minister replies to the debate we will be listening with interest to hear what his department is planning for the future. Of course, he can tell us that without disclosing any secrets. We do not want any secrets disclosed here in the House. However, our old folks are still looking to the future, although they look to the future at this moment with trepidation and with fear, and not with the degree of security to which they are entitled.

Mr. Speaker, in the few minutes available to me I should like to make a few corrections. I think, however, that I may as well concentrate on one aspect only. That is community involvement. I need not say any more about State involvement. It has already been made quite clear that the Government has the interests of the elderly people at heart. When we consult the statistics for the years 1968 to 1974, it appears that the annual increase in the old-age pensions paid out was between R3 million and R5 million. Since 1974 to this date, it has increased to an average of R15 million a year. When we look at the amount paid out per person, it appears that the graph remained static at £5 until about 1948. When the NP came into power, that same graph began to rise and eventually it soared.

One could go on like this. However, all these aspects have already been referred to. There is one important correction I want to make, however. As far as assaults on the aged are concerned, I believe one should see the matter in perspective. It is no use referring to individual cases and becoming emotional about the matter. After all, statistics show clearly what the position is. I refer in this respect to Durban. Muggings of persons over the age of 60 reported to the police in Durban in 1977 amounted to 179 in all. In 1978, it rose to 199. In the case of Whites, the number dropped from 25 to 12. There was an increase among the Asiatics, from 37 to 51, and also among the Black population.

In Cape Town, there was a total number of 43 reported assaults on Whites in 1978. This total had dropped from 78 in 1977 to 43. The total number of assaults reported dropped from 269 in 1977 to 239 in 1978. I think, therefore, that one should pay more attention to statistics in this respect in order perhaps to get a better perspective.

I should also like to discuss community involvement, and especially to associate it with the question of service centres. I should like to point out the wonderful work which is being done by the department in support of this. Furthermore, I want to point out the progress that has already been made with service centres. These are intended, of course, to satisfy the needs of elderly people not only their material needs, but also their other needs, such as their needs in their loneliness, and their need for recognition and love. I want to refer to a study by the Department of Social Welfare and Pensions, a study of community services to the aged. It contains, among other things, a definition of service centres. The definition, which is formulated by Van Enkelen, reads as follows—

The idea, therefore, is that the aged should be able to live independently, but that they should still be able to obtain the services they are entitled to. We find in this connection that the number of service centres in the cities has increased to 12. Of these, Pretoria has three, Johannesburg one, Germiston three, Durban two and so on. The membership of these service centres is 4 563. Four new service centres have been approved. The subsidy rose from R32 500 in 1975 to R133 500 in 1976. The services offered at these centres are almost unlimited. It depends on the initiative of the person in charge of the programme whether he can fit in everything. Possible services include, for example, lectures, film shows, drama performances, painting, library services, discussions, information services, educational services, meals, toilet facilities, occupational therapy, physiotherapy, indoor and outdoor recreation, excursions, hairdressers, laundry services, gymnastics, folk-dances, shops which sell manufactured articles, etc.

It is clear, therefore, that the field of service centres is the one in which progress can be made and in which the community can provide these services. I feel that the community as such should become more involved by earmarking areas, especially in the 1980 census, which are mostly inhabited by elderly people, and by drawing up certain guidelines for the State and for provincial and local authorities responsible for the provision of services in those areas. The community could get more involved in that respect. I am thinking, for example, of certain services presently undertaken by Government institutions, to which more attention will have to be given. More attention will have to be given to public transport, for example. I am thinking, too, of clinics and health services. I hope it will be possible for more police to be present in the areas than is normally the case. Advice bureaux and post offices should be ready to meet the needs of the aged. A mobile postal service could perhaps be introduced. The Department of Sport and Recreation could also make available a larger subsidy for sport facilities in these areas where a larger concentration of elderly people live. We know it is the policy of local authorities that the aged should be kept out of the old-age homes. In South Africa, 8% of the elderly people are accommodated in old-age homes, as against 1¼% in the United Kingdom. The percentage in South Africa is the highest in the world. Those homes should mainly be used for the infirm aged.

These remarks were meant to indicate briefly how the community could get more involved. Finally, I just want to point out that the Department of Social Welfare has published a pamphlet known as circular No. 4 of 1965 concerning the subsidizing of service centres for the aged.

Business suspended at 12h45 and resumed at 14h15.

Afternoon Sitting

Mr. Speaker, there is a most important problem that should be highlighted to make every South African citizen aware of the very nature of the complexities of the situation, and that is the quality of life of the elderly people in our society. But first of all I want to turn my attention to the hon. member for South Coast whom I believe said something here this morning which, to say the least, was very unfortunate. This constant harping on the past is something that has tended to creep into debates across the floor of the House. The hon. member for South Coast harps on the £5 per month pension which was sufficient until 1948. This constant dragging in of history and the mistakes of others is not going to help us today and it is not going to help us in the future because the mistakes of 30 years ago are the mistakes of a past era, and are we going to perpetuate those errors by harping on what happened 30 years ago and saying that since R10 was then insufficient, are we not marvellous fellows because we are giving pensioners R82 or R84 a month today? We are merely perpetuating the error. In 30 years time there may well be people—even those of us sitting in this House today—who could be wondering where their next meal is coming from. Are they going to bless us for what we have done? Please do not indulge in petty politics, therefore. [Interjections.]

I want to prick a few consciences. This new expression “the quality of life” is one that is easy to understand because it is so descriptive, but unfortunately so many of us tend to take for granted the life-style to which we have become accustomed. I am sorry to have to say this, but so many of us, in doing so, do not stop to think of the less fortunate people in the community, the senior citizens who all too often live a frightened existence in a lonely world. What is the quality of life of the elderly social pensioner? What can he really afford? He can barely afford his board and lodging. Fortunately there are many of our pensioners who, whilst enjoying the benefit of a social pension, are also able to supplement their incomes by virtue of the fact that over the years they have saved and accumulated funds from which they draw interest, and also possibly by virtue of the fact that they draw supplementary pensions from funds to which they have contributed over the years. One must appreciate that because of inflation over the past few years— I am not laying the blame at anybody’s door because this is a world-wide problem—and the resulting devaluation of money coupled with the high cost of goods and services, the vast majority of the elderly are finding it increasingly difficult to make ends meet Consequently their quality of life has been, and is being, steadily eroded away and is deteriorating as each hour goes by.

I know that this debate is one in which the hon. the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions is taking a keen interest, but I believe that it behoves every hon. Minister to look carefully at his department, his budget, his sources of revenue and then to ask himself what he can do to improve the quality of life of those senior citizens who have made a meaningful contribution to the well-being of this country, those citizens who deserve a place in the sun, with peace of mind and the comforts they are entitled to.

Beginning with the hon. the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions, I believe the time is already past midnight that he should take meaningful steps towards a complete revision of all pensions as well as a complete revision of the means test. In connection with the means test I believe he should apply his mind to examining it realistically. He must realize and appreciate that it is our responsibility—I say “our” in the true sense of the word—collectively to see that social pensioners can get the sort of pension on which they can afford to live. The means test should be revised and updated each year in order to cater for the changing needs of the times because they change fast. I do not believe that social pensions can ever do more than to provide the bare necessities. I also do not believe, however, that social pensioners or any pensioners should have to eat into their hard-earned capital in order to maintain life and in order to meet these necessities. It is that capital, that additional income from possibly a contributory pension scheme, which is so vital to them in order to maintain the standards of living to which they were accustomed through their working lives.

I say that the onus rests on every Minister. I should like to illustrate what I have in mind. I should like to ride my old hobby-horse and to say to the hon. the Minister of National Education—he is not here—I do not think it is his business to be here—that he should consider whether the time is not ripe for pensioners to enjoy free or nominal licence rates in respect of television sets. We have today black and white television sets that can be afforded by families who will give them to their older folk. People can afford to do this. We have a market swamped with used sets, and I know of many young people who have offered sets to the older folk, but have been told: “Please do not give it to me; I cannot afford a licence at R3 per month.” This is not a joke. When one is getting R82 per month, R3 per month is a lot of money. Surely, the hon. the Minister can initiate an investigation into the possibility of making arrangements in respect of fees charged to advertisers now that our television has gone commercial. We are treated ad nauseam to advertisements on soaps and detergents and what have you; let them pay a little more. Surely, he must know how easy it would be to balance the books and to grant concessions to the elderly.

Let us turn to another Ministry. What more comforting instrument than a telephone can one have at one’s bedside in one’s lonely years? It is a link to the outside world. It gives one that feeling of security. It is something tangible. Why must we charge the pensioner R3,50 a month for this telephone rental? Why can all of us not pay a little more, why can commerce not pay a little more and why can the social pensioner, on production of his pension card, not have to pay a nominal rental for this telephone or, even better, have it free of charge? Why not?

I now come to the hon. the Minister of Plural Relations and Development. How many of our older people have to have domestic help by virtue of illness? By virtue of the fact that they are crippled, they may not be able to walk. For many reasons they may have to have domestic help. When they do find domestic help, they must find an additional R1,20 each month which they have to pay the local Administration Board. Why is this not waived in respect of these people?

There is also the hon. the Minister of Transport. As a matter of fact the list is endless. Why do we not do the sort of thing commerce and industry are prepared to do? Look at the many cinemas that allow pensioners in for a pittance. Are we asking for too much as regards assistance to these people?

Local authorities must also play their part. They must assist in respect of buses and transportation generally, and also in respect of rates for those who have owned property over the years and who are now unable to meet those rates. These people have done a lot for society. Similarly our provincial hospitals could do more. It behoves all authorities to make a greater effort in this regard. I believe that all of us in the House and in the country should become more aware of the low standard of the quality of life of our elderly people and the circumstances that compel them to suffer. My appeal to all of us is that we must look at ourselves and see what each of us can do to improve the quality of life of the elderly not on a temporary basis, but permanently.

Mr. Speaker, in the short time available to me I want to begin by thanking all the speakers who participated in the debate for their contributions. Unfortunately it is impossible for me to respond to everyone’s speech in such a short time. In any event, I have listened to their suggestions. There were some interesting ones, and these will receive further attention. I shall speak in general terms about the motion, the amendments to it and matters relating to the care of the aged.

†I do not want to cross swords with the hon. member for Durban Central for introducing this motion in so far as it throws light on a problem we on both sides of the House regard as a very important problem and on the importance of giving continuous attention to the problem of the aged, to the situation of the aged, as it was put by the hon. member for Musgrave. As the hon. member for Umhlanga has just said, it pricks the conscience from time to time and none of us escapes from that, at all times. I cannot, however, agree with the hon. member for Durban Central that there has been as alarming a decline in the quality of life of the aged as is implied in his motion. It is so that the State and the community should, as partners, always involve themselves in this and try to bring about improvements, even where conditions are already fairly good. Although we agree on that, we must at the same time stick to the facts; we must be realistic and try to put matters in their right perspective. Some hon. members were inclined to devote parts of their speeches to parochial matters. I do not blame them for that, but I think that in my reply I should treat those aspects as part and parcel of the overall, comprehensive problem of care of the aged. In so far as crime prevention was mentioned, I think hon. members will realize that that requires a multi-discipline approach in that it does not just concern one department. They will therefore excuse me if I do not go into that too deeply.

*I should like to begin by saying a few things which I believe should be said at this stage. This is the first time that I am privileged to act as Minister of this department. We shall have approximately 380 000 elderly people in our society in South Africa by next year, just under 20 000 of whom will be accommodated in 294 old-age homes. In the nine urban centres, a total of 9 592 elderly people will be accommodated in 110 old-age homes. An average amount of R469 is spent on their accommodation there every year. This does not include the other services in connection with the care of the aged. Nor does it include the more than R10 million which is paid to them by way of social services and social pensions. As far as Durban is concerned—I do think that the hon. member for Durban Central had the circumstances in his constituency in mind—I want to say that there are almost 24 000 elderly people in Durban, 1 924 of whom are already accommodated in housing provided or subsidized by the State. Housing for a further 144 people has been approved. According to my information, however, 230 subeconomic flats of the Durban city council are standing empty at the moment. A further 85 flats which can be rented for R40 to R60 a month are also empty. Therefore it seems that there is not such an acute shortage of suitable housing in Durban.

More generally, I want to say that approximately 151 444 elderly people receive social pensions. In other words, 39,71% of the aged receive these pensions. The State pays R9,75 million to the 9 236 elderly people in Durban. I therefore think that the State’s investment in the improvement, as far as it is able to, of the quality of life of the people of that area is not insignificant.

I have taken cognizance of the complaints and the reports about muggings. This is so, and it is regrettable that 0,15% of Durban’s elderly people are mugged. It is interesting to note that in urban centres such as Durban and East London, the number of muggings is considerable higher—according to my information—than in Johannesburg and Germiston. There must be a reason for this, a reason which I cannot pinpoint at this stage. Nevertheless, this is not something one can feel happy about. At that stage of one’s life, one feels that security is among one’s greatest needs. It is a source of anxiety, because the elderly person wants to feel safe economically, physically and other otherwise. This occupies his mind all day long. Good housing is also important for improving the quality of their lives. We all agree with that.

However, this does not offer any guarantee against muggings or molestations. This appears from reports quoted here by the hon. member. Still, we must proceed with the provision of housing. One of the most important services which can be rendered by the State is the provision of suitable housing and good institutional care, and this will be continued. Of course, we cannot prevent muggings and molestations in this way. I may come back to this later.

As regards the quality of life of the aged— the hon. member for Umbilo referred to this in particular—it is the official policy in our country that elderly people should remain an integral part of their community as long as possible. Loneliness is a very important factor for these elderly persons, as was said by all members who took part in this debate. It would serve no purpose if, in addition to the provision of housing and institutional care, we did not provide any community services to brighten the life of the elderly person. Other supportive social services are extremely important, otherwise the housing measures would lose a great deal of their security value. Group housing, for example, is very important. In this connection I want to point out that cities such as Pretoria, Port Elizabeth, Durban and other cities, the local authorities of which are able to obtain loans at an interest rate of 1%, a concession of which they have in fact made use, have done a great deal to promote the security of the aged. The department encourages that kind of scheme and propagates it intensively. However, I want to say that nowhere in the world, as far as we know, is there a better scheme for providing housing for elderly people than in South Africa. The lowest interest rate on a loan is 0,05%. In England there is nothing of this kind. In Australia and Canada, a part of it has to be paid back. In Holland, the interest rate is 4% to 5%. Moreover, in addition to this housing there are the service centres as well. We believe that the service centres are extremely important, because they can provide the extra services which are so necessary to complete the life of the elderly, services such as meals, recreational facilities, medical services, information services, feeding services, etc. This can be done close by, as the hon. member for South Coast also mentioned. Local authorities can establish service centres by erecting a building or letting a part of a complex for this purpose, and that rent, together with the services provided there, will be subsidized. Local authorities can do a great deal to improve the life of our elderly people and to make it more pleasant in general by arranging functions for them on days set aside for them.

But not welfare work. According to the commission, they ought not to do any welfare work.

This is not welfare in the legal sense, but a city council can arrange special days for elderly people; there is nothing to prevent them. In this connection I feel that local authorities can do much to help. One could emphasize the need for making the elderly people in the neighbourhood feel a part of the community. As hon. members know, it is not the policy of the Government to provide the services itself; it is a partnership policy. The idea is to support the welfare organizations financially and otherwise, to assist them, and I think that under the new Welfare Act, which may come into operation this year and certain parts of which are already in operation, as I understand, subsidies on the services provided for these people will be significantly improved. Hon. members know, of course, that one cannot concentrate all these people in housing schemes. There are too many elderly people who want to remain independent and who wish to stay on in their own houses. I feel that those people should also have the benefit of aid at service centres. Even though they are not in old-age homes, they must have the benefit of applying to the service centres for assistance so that they may obtain home assistance, home visits, or health services they would not otherwise have. With the failing energies of the aged person, he sometimes does not even know where to go for information.

The quality of life of the elderly person—I am coming back to this again—in South Africa compares very well with that of any elderly person in the rest of the world. I say this because I believe it and because the Department of Social Welfare and Pensions has done research and field work in this connection over many years. But many of our people really prefer to continue independently, and we must never deprive them of that particular quality, their independence. An important thing which has not been mentioned here is the preparation of our elderly people for their old age. My department is conducting an investigation at the moment, and I expect to receive recommendations shortly concerning a project which can be initiated to help prepare these people for their old age.

Furthermore, a start has already been made in making guards available in certain areas, so that when the old people receive their pensions, they may be protected by guards, because this is the time when the criminals strike. Of course, we shall not be able to expand this very much for financial and other reasons, but nevertheless, it is a plan which has already been implemented to some extent.

We shall always expand our services for elderly people in so far as we are able. This is a moral obligation, and I thank places such as Oudtshoorn and Germiston by name for what they have already done to promote such a comprehensive approach. It was interesting to see a 90-year-old still playing tennis. I found it interesting to hear that a well-known athlete had jogged with a 94-year-old who could still do the last 100 metres in 15 seconds. I wonder whether all of us in this House could do that. Care of the aged enjoys a high priority in this country, and I want to assure hon. members that that high priority will be recognized by the appropriation of constantly increasing amounts of money. We do not want to make a detailed analysis here of the enormous amounts of money which are spent on it. However, I can assure hon. members that I appreciate the sympathetic ideas which were expressed here today without partypolitical considerations, and that I shall devote myself to the improvement of the position and the problems of our elderly people.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to thank all hon. members who have participated in this debate. In the first place I should like to express my surprise at the fact that hon. members on that side of the House, including the hon. the Minister to a certain extent, could not see their way clear to agreeing with me that there has been evidence of a deterioration in the quality of life of the elderly people in our densely populated urban areas. To illustrate this point, I should just like to use one of the figures provided by the hon. the Minister himself. He quoted Durban here, he said, there are so many flats available in the price range R40 to R60 a month that he could not see what the problem was. That, to my mind, is the very problem. Can hon. members imagine someone having to live today on a social pension of R88 a month and having to pay R60 for rent? Do they honestly think that people can live on R28 a month without there being a deterioration in their quality of life? For people who receive such pensions and have to cope in the face of today’s cost of living index, there must obviously be a deterioration in the quality of life.

In the second place I also wish to express my disappointment at the fact that there was an attempt, especially by the hon. member for Brits, to try to turn this debate into a political one. He accused me of all sorts of negative actions, i.e. attacks on the Government, etc. I can only tell him that if I had wanted this to be a political debate, and if I had wanted it to be a condemnation of the Government, I would have framed my motion in that way, and we would then have had just such a debate. If the hon. member for Brits would perhaps take the trouble to read the speeches of the debate, or even my motion, he might appreciate that that was not my intention at all. Neither was it my intention to approach it from a parochial point of view. As some of the hon. members who took part in the debate are new members to the House, I shall not be too hard on them. To a certain extent I think it is the fault of their Whips for not having informed them that if one anticipates what a speaker is going to say and, having written one’s speech one finds out that the speaker does not say it, one should quickly change the contents of one’s speech.

Some hon. members did, however, put forward positive suggestions, for example the idea of a contributory pension scheme. This is an idea that we have been advocating for many years, but we have always been accused of being socialist in our approach, etc. I want to thank all hon. members for participating in the debate. The hon. member for Hillbrow, for instance, raised the interesting issue of the situation in the Black townships.

Business interrupted in accordance with Standing Order No. 34 and motion and amendments lapsed.

Mr. Speaker, I move the motion printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows—

I believe that the South African economy, as a result of its intertwinedness as of such a nature that there can definitely be no question of a separate Coloured economy. Nor is it my object to discuss that. I should prefer to confine myself to the economic development of the Brown community. Unlike the case of the Black nations, where the political objective is independence and that independence is linked to a territory which has to accommodate, inter alia, the economy of that nation, this is not true in the case of the Coloureds. When I say this I do not, of course, imply that economic independence is a precondition for political independence.

It is to be doubted whether the existing Coloured townships and group areas can develop to such an extent that they can accommodate an autonomous Coloured economy. Nor do I believe this to be desirable, if one sees it against the background of our economic set-up. Because this is so, and because we accept it as being so, the constitutional proposals of the Government contain the principle of joint responsibility with regard to the economy.

Let me therefore state clearly that the point of this motion is not the analysis of a separate economy, but the important question whether the Coloureds of South Africa shared in the economic development of South Africa and whether they in their turn will be able to make a contribution to the South African economy in future. We are, therefore, in the position this afternoon to determine the economic bottlenecks of the Coloureds. On the other hand, we are also in a position to emphasize the positive progress and development that has taken place and to underline the economic opportunities and possibilities for the future. Therefore the first, and definitely the most important, question we shall have to answer is whether the Coloured has shared in the economic growth and development of South Africa.

It is, of course, a fact that one of the main characteristics of Western civilization is the sustained economic growth which has been maintained since the 16th century. This has meant that there has been an improvement in standards of living, and together with that an increase in the number of goods and services and employment opportunities. This is precisely what we in South Africa have also experienced, and the question is, therefore, whether the Coloureds have also had a share in that.

I believe that this question can be answered in two ways. In the first place the question can be answered by what can be observed, i.e. standard of living, housing, transport, education facilities and other facilities. Most important is, of course, the creation or development of a middle class.

In his opening address at the annual congress of the Associated Chambers of Commerce of South Africa, Mr. J. G. van der Horst put it as follows on 17 October 1978—

As far as the Coloureds are concerned, the years since 1965 have been a period of radical socio-economic transformation of society, to use the words of Prof. Jan Sadie. Prof. Sadie also comes to the conclusion that the Coloured community has experienced the beginning of a strong middle class.

In reply to a question by Dr. P. G. du Plessis, Rev. R. Hendrickse, leader of the Labour Party in the CRC, said in The Transvaler of 22 February this year that the middle class is developing very strongly. In reply to a further question he said that there was a percentage shift from the underprivileged to a middle class.

This pronouncement and these findings of a professor in economics, and a Brown political leader, in my opinion prove that the Government has succeeded in allowing the Coloureds to share in the economic development of South Africa. I believe, in fact, that no objective observer could dispute this statement. In other words, what we observe in the Coloured communities, housing and all the other facilities which are coming into existence, confirm that they have shared in the economic upswing in South Africa.

In the second place, however, I also believe that this question should be answered on the basis of statistics. Therefore I should like to bring certain things to the attention of hon. members. Between 1960 and 1977 the percentage of the labour force in skilled and semi-skilled blue-collar positions increased from 27,7% to 34,6%, and those in skilled and semi-skilled white-collar positions, from 8,7% to 18,6%. It is therefore clear that the Coloureds have entered the skilled labour market to a greater degree than they have the unskilled market. We find that the total remuneration for labour to Coloureds was R177 million in 1960. In 1975 it was R979 million. For the period 1970 to 1976 the increase in remuneration was 16,9%. The average income per Coloured household in Cape Town was R1 586 per annum in 1960, and in 1975 it was R3 131 annually; an increase of 97%. In 1975 the Coloureds in Cape Town and surrounding areas represented a consumer market of approximately R485 million, which is considerably more than the gross domestic product of many African states. Between 1960 and 1977 the percentage of the labour force attached to agriculture decreased from 22% to 13%, but even though there was a decrease, there was nevertheless an increase in wages from R26 million in 1960 to R69 million in 1965. At the moment there are between 12 000 and 15 000 Coloured traders. To mention one more statistic, in 1960 there were approximately 300 male Coloureds in the higher managerial posts. In 1973 the figure was already 700. In the professional and technical field there were 6 500 male Coloureds in 1960, and in 1970 the number rose to 10 600.

Therefore, to summarize: Objective observation and statistics confirm what I have already said, i.e. that since 1965 a radical socio-economic transformation of the Coloured society has taken place. In Rapport of 18 February 1979 it is said that there has been a considerable increase in the standard of living of these people in the past 15 years. While we are grateful for the economic progress that has been made and which has transformed the Brown population drastically, I do not believe that one can ever reach a level or point of total satisfaction in economics. I believe that when this happens, there will be stagnation which can lead to degeneration in the long term.

If, therefore, the Coloureds have shared in the economic development of South Africa, and were put on the road of economic development, progress should also be made in this direction. Within the framework and capacity of the South African economy, the Government has committed itself to meet the economic needs of all the nations in South Africa and therefore the needs of all the communities and people. The Coloured is definitely not excluded from this provision. Subsequently I should like to bring the factors which contributed to this development to the attention of hon. members. In this regard I should like to mention in the first place the sound South African economic policy which maintained a sound balance throughout the golden years of economic prosperity, as well as during the recession, and enabled everyone in this country to share in the economic growth. I believe it says a great deal that even in the longest recession since the ’thirties, the Government was able to succeed in meeting the basic needs of all the population groups. It is true that the pace decreased, but there was not a total standstill with regard to housing, school facilities and the creation of employment opportunities, not even with regard to the narrowing of the wage gap. With regard to the latter, I can refer to the latest announcement of the hon. the Prime Minister and the Minister of Transport. One should issue a word of warning, however, i.e. that the prosperity of everyone in South Africa depends on a growing economy. It is therefore a pity that a voice was heard occasionally from among the Coloured ranks in favour of foreign sanctions, which discouraged foreign investors to a certain extent. If the South African economy breaks, it breaks all of us. White and Brown should therefore accept joint responsibility for the building of a strong South African economy.

A second factor I want to mention is education and training. Another member on this side of the House will discuss this matter fully. All I want to say is that an degree of upward mobility for the Coloured worker has been established in nearly all spheres of labour. It is a fact that the Coloureds are now entering employment opportunities which were previously occupied by Whites. I want to make bold to say that improved and more extensive training has played a major role in this regard. We have to admit that there are not nearly enough facilities for the training of school-going and post-matriculation Coloureds, but it has to be admitted that remarkable progress has already been made. The fact that training opportunities are in fact offered, is to me very important and there is no lack of talent and ability on the part of the Coloured pupil and student to make use of these opportunities.

A third factor in the economic development of the Coloured is the work of the CDC. Another hon. member on this side of the House will discuss the functions of this corporation more specifically. The CDC was established in 1962 for the purpose of aiding the progress of the Coloured in the industrial field and the financial sector by means of the granting of loans, the provision of technical leadership and tackling profitable enterprises. Up to September 1978 the expenditure of the corporation amounted to R45 863 731, in other words almost R46 million, of which approximately half was for its own projects and the other half for the financing of Coloured businessmen. I believe that the CDC has been, and still is, an instrument wherewith to help satisfy the economic needs of the Coloured community. I want to say without fear of contradiction that the corporation has been faithful to its terms of reference as laid down by Act No. 4 of 1962, i.e.—

I want to convey my gratitude and appreciation to the board of directors of the corporation and all its officials and pay tribute to them for the immense task they have been unobtrusively performing over the years to promote the economic development of the Coloureds and to get Coloured businessmen established.

A fourth factor in the economic development of the Coloureds is the policy of separate development which has as its basic premise the right of every nation or community group to be able to develop. This policy has created possibilities for development and provided economic protection for the Coloured by safeguarding him to a great extent against economic exploitation. It is a fact that the economy, and more particularly the business world, is a hard and difficult world in which sympathy plays no part. Under the policy of separate development, special attention has been paid to the economic development of the Coloureds, and Coloured businessmen were assisted in getting established. Unceasing efforts are being made to create opportunities.

There is a fifth factor: The greater and steadily increasing economic sense of responsibility of the Coloured himself. Here I cannot mention a better example than that described by Prof. Jan Sadie as follows—

Reverend Hendrickse said that a tremendous drop in the birth rate occurred as a result of the realization that smaller families ensure a better living and that socio-economic improvement gives rise to new opinions about birth. For the period 1960-’65 the birth rate was 47,2 per thousand, which at that stage was the highest in the world. For the period 1975-’80 it is estimated at 32 per 1 000.

What is the result? Because of this, children can receive more and greater individual attention from the parents; children can attend school longer; a new generation of higher quality with more initiative and imagination is produced; the next generation is influenced for the good; and we are escaping the culture of poverty.

I should like to refer briefly to two other factors, which have to be developed further. The first is “the Coloured as industrialist”. It is true that the Government has announced that industrial areas will in future have no group character, and depending on the recovery of the economy it can be expected that Coloureds will join the industrial world more actively in future. In this regard it can be mentioned that the Coloured Development Corporation has made a deliberate effort since 1975 to promote industrial development for Coloureds.

The second factor that we can and must develop further, is that the Greater Western Cape should be reserved as a labour preference area for Coloureds. Let me say this afternoon that this is not a political move. I also want to put it clearly that it is not a campaign against the Black man in the Western Cape. I believe that it is an economic safety measure. I want to say that it is an honest and sincere safety measure in the interests of the Coloured himself.

The factors I have mentioned, have already eliminated certain problems for the Coloureds. In the first place there is the problem of the lack of skill. In the second place there is the absence of a business tradition. In the third place there is the problem created as the result of a lack of relevant specialized knowledge and experience. I believe that the above-mentioned three problems have been eliminated in recent years.

We shall never be able to divide the South African economy, as far as White and Brown is concerned, into water-tight compartments. We shall never be able to eliminate the interdependence. We will be jointly responsible for South Africa’s economic preparedness and thus for the growth and strength of our economy. In spite of all the dangers threatening us, I believe that a future with fine economic opportunities for all, awaits us. But then, in the first place, we shall have to work harder and high priority will have to be given to productivity. In the second place there will also have to be social responsibility and honesty, in other words, discipline in living. If this is broken down and disappears, economic disaster will follow. In the third place, White and Brown will have to display economic patriotism.

The nature of South Africa’s position today is such that the emphasis in future will have to be placed more and more on merit and productivity. Where Prof. Sadie said in his analysis that the continuation of the present demographic tendency amongst Coloureds will lead to the fact that shortly there will be little difference between White and Brown other than the colour of their skin, I welcome it in an economic sense because to me that will be proof that there has been development. While wilful and hostile people emphasized separateness, we emphasized development. If what the professor said comes into being, our policy would have been successful and the Coloured will not be a brake in the economic life of South Africa, but an asset. We want every population group, every community in this country to be an economic asset for the country. If therefore, this happens in South Africa, it can only be an asset and I believe that although there are many problems awaiting us, if we have a sound and good relationship between White and Brown we can face this era with courage and faith. If we add to this the proposals of the Government with regard to a new constitutional dispensation, we shall find that its purpose is not only political stability, but that it will also bring about a strong economic participation, and if we can get political stability together with a strong economic participation, I believe sincerely that a great and fine future awaits White and Brown in this country.

Mr. Speaker, the subject broached by the hon. member for Oudtshoorn, i.e. that of economic development and the degree of progress made in this field, is, of course, one of the most difficult subjects to discuss in social science. Considerable debate could be devoted to the criteria one should use. For example there are some sociologists who consider the number of medical practitioners per 1 000 members of the population to determine the level of socio-economic development. What I am trying to say is that in spite of the fact that this is going to turn into a political debate, we should be careful not to apply a certain criterion and then to extol it as the most important indication of the economic development that has taken place. I think that the hon. member really tried not to use a specific indicator to prove that economic development has taken place. However, the motion he moved falls short in comparison with the quality of his speech. When I read the motion for the first time, I thought that it was a rather presumptuous motion. In fact, I still think so. One should be careful not to congratulate oneself too soon, particularly when it comes to economic development and the Government’s role in that development. The most important point at issue between the Government and us, I think, lies in the question of whether the Government’s policy, political as well as social and economic, has made a greater contribution to the progress of the Coloureds. We are of the opinion that this is not the case and I want to substantiate this claim in the course of my speech.

If one wants to examine the validity of the motion of the hon. member for Oudtshoorn, one can refer back to a great deal of the information that appeared in the Erika Theron Report. I do not think I am doing the hon. member an injustice when I say that a great deal of his information did in fact come from that report. There was new information, but I think that most of his information nevertheless came from that report.

What is wrong with that?

There is nothing wrong with that; I am also going to use some of that information. The hon. member must not be so sensitive. I am only trying to say that the report appeared in 1976 and that it is now 1979 already. One can, therefore, expect this motion to be motivated on the grounds of other information than just that made available to us by the report. That is all I am trying to say. If one examines that report, and in particular three criteria, viz. income and consumption, Coloured entrepreneurship and the whole question of Coloured labour, one can more or less determine the degree of progress that has, in fact, taken place. If one examines the question of income and consumption as set out in the report, one sees that 80% of the Coloureds’ personal income in 1976 consisted of what the employer paid the Coloured as employee in comparison with 64% in the case of Whites. Proportionately, therefore, there is basically a very small entrepreneurial class among the Coloured population. In fact, it has already been stated that Whites earn 15 times more from property transactions than Coloureds, and that 40% of the Coloured population’s income is spent on food. This item of expenditure is an important indication of the degree of prosperity of a community. We have seen that 38% of that population group lived below the adjusted minimum standard of living in 1976 and that a mere 25% of the consumer goods purchased by the Coloured household, was purchased in the so-called Coloured areas as opposed to 75% outside their areas. This, of course, has a restrictive effect on the stimulation of independent Coloured business enterprises in their so-called own group areas.

With regard to the whole question of Coloured entrepreneurship, I must say that the hon. member for Oudtshoorn did not furnish us with much new information. He stated that there were between 12 000 and 15 000 Coloured traders, but this is information we had as far back as 1976. A new fact he brought to our attention was that the spending of the CDC to date had amounted to R45 million, as opposed to R20 million up to 1976. However, at that point in time half of that amount was spent to assist businessmen and the other half on the projects of the CDC itself. This is an important fact to emphasize, because in 1976 the vast majority of those businessmen operated one-man ventures. One should like to see to what extent this picture has changed, since what is of real meaning to the entrepreneur, is the number of job opportunities he creates and the amount of capital he can generate as an indication of economic growth.

In the Theron report we see that the major obstacles in the way of the Coloured entrepreneur were: The administration of the Groups Areas Act, the poor planning of Coloured residential areas and the high prices of property owing to the policy of alienation in terms of the Housing Act. These obstacles are a direct result of the traditional policy of the Government with regard to the Coloureds. For that reason one can justifiably draw the conclusion that the extent to which progress was, in fact, made in this area was the extent to which the traditional aspects of the Government’s Coloured policy were reviewed in order to afford the Coloured an opportunity to develop. In other words, we can conclude that the degree of progress made in the field of Coloured entrepreneurship may be ascribed to the fact that the Government has changed certain aspects of its traditional policy.

However, we must see this whole question of entrepreneurship in its correct perspective. We see that the number of entrepreneurs actually comprises a very small percentage of the Coloured population and that the ability of this group to stimulate the economic development of the whole group, is fairly limited. I do not think that one should praise oneself too much in this regard, like someone blowing his own trumpet, which is what the hon. member for Oudtshoorn tried to do.

The following criterion to which I want to refer, is the question of Coloured labour. In this regard I readily concede to the hon. member that remarkable progress has been made in this field, particularly in the construction industry, the manufacturing industry and in the commercial and financial sectors. Once again it is interesting to note that even the Theron report stated in this regard that two of the most important reasons for progress being made in this field, were, in the first place, because higher salaries were being paid by both the Government and the private sector, and, in the second place, because there had been a great deal of labour mobility. These words “labour mobility” are, of course very euphemistic words. It actually means that more and more Coloureds may do work previously done by the Whites. Both of these aspects—the narrowing of the wage gap and the opening up of the labour structure— are aspects which were not always traditional policy of the Government. These, too, are deviations from Government policy. Therefore, one can say once again that the extent to which there was progress in the field of labour, was exactly the extent to which the Government abandoned its traditional approach in respect of this Coloured population group. If we become too excited about Coloured labour in general we should not forget that in 1976 25% of the Coloured labour was still employed on the farms. Now the hon. member informs us that this figure has dropped to 13% and he regards this as an indication of progress. I do not want to accept it at face value. One does, after all, want to know why they left the farms and whether they found work after having left them. What type of work did they find? To say that farm labour has dropped from 22% to 13% is not necessarily a sign of economic development. We must know why it dropped from 22% to 13%. And what became of those that left? Did they get better jobs? The hon. member has not yet told us that. However, what is interesting is that of that 25%, 75% lived below the adjusted minimum standard of living in 1976. They had an average income of between R50 and R70 per month. In my opinion, if one speaks of 25% it represents a very large proportion of any population group. One should also examine this 25% if one wants to determine to what extent there was progress along the road of economic development and what active and positive results—as the hon. member put it—there were.

The other aspects to which the hon. member referred, were education, welfare services, health, transportation, etc. I should have like the hon. member or one of his colleagues to have told us whether the situation in respect of transportation had improved greatly. The Theron Commission report states that one of the worst handicaps for the average Coloured labourer is the time he has to spend on travel, the quality of that transportation, the problems he has in reaching his work, and the way in which these factors affect his working ability and working capacity. It is with this general picture as background that we should examine the degree of progress made along the road of economic development. It is in this respect that the hon. member for Oudtshoorn gave us certain statistics. I have already commented on some of those statistics. Some of the factors mentioned by the hon. member here, one can accept, for example the growth of the South African economy, which is of course a combination of Government policy as well as the actions of the private sector. There are still quite a few problem areas with regard to the whole question of education and training to which the hon. member referred. He did not explain to us why such a special contribution was made to economic development in this particular sphere.

He said that one of the other hon. members would do so. He also referred to the contribution of the CDC. Far be it from us to say that the CDC is not doing good work. But we should not overestimate this work in terms of the general socio-economic position of the Coloured population. If one begins to do that one will be trying to create the impression that between 12 000 and 15 000 businessmen will succeed in improving the economic position of the Coloured. In my opinion this cannot be taken for granted.

I want to return to the other factors, since I fail completely to follow the hon. member’s train of thought when he says that two other reasons for there having been economic development are the policy of separate development and the Coloured labour preference policy in the Western Cape. In this regard we differ diametrically from each other. There is no question about that. In all honesty I must say that I feel that if the White man should hang his head in shame at some of his actions in the political life in South Africa, he should do so with regard to what he has done to the Coloured population. Therefore, we should not begin to praise ourselves too quickly for what the policy has brought into being in this regard. We should not lose sight of the economic effect of the Group Areas Act on the Coloured community as a whole. One of the crucial dilemmas which emerged in the hon. member for Oudtshoorn’s speech has already been singled out by the Erika Theron Commission Report, and this is to refer to “the Coloured” in an undifferentiated sense as though we are dealing here with a homogenous population group in the ethnic sense of the word. This has already been brought into prominence in the Theron Commission Report. On page 469 we find the following—

The report goes on to say that one can broadly differentiate between three groups, three strata, in the Coloured population, i.e. the top, the middle and the bottom. The top group consists of approximately 20%, the middle group of approximately 40% of whom 20% incline to the top group, while the other 20% incline to the last group. The last group, therefore, comprises approximately 40% of the Coloured population. The commission’s finding with regard to this bottom group reads—

If one bears these two categories in mind, i.e. the top group and the bottom group, when we discuss the whole question of economic development, we are discussing two completely different aspects. We cannot apply the criterion used to determine the economic development of the top group to the bottom group, because to enable them to develop economically one must set about it in a different way to the stimulation of the middle-class group among the Coloured population, as the hon. member referred to it.

In this regard one could accuse the hon. member of having displayed a measure of economic snobbishness, since he concentrated mainly on the top 20%, the middle-class group. We are all aware of the fact—even the history of the Afrikaners indicates this—that the criterion for economic progress is the size of the poorest sector of the population and what attempts are being made to enable them to make progress. In this regard the Theron Commission Report is, in my opinion, consistent since it indicates two types of obstacles in the way of economic development of these two categories within the Coloured population group. With regard to the top group, the report identifies the following problem areas, on page 471 in paragraph 22.14—

I shall refer only to the first reason—

The report goes on to illustrate why this is so. The top group, therefore, experiences the greatest degree of hindrance as a result of statutory measures. Statutory measures are political measures and political measures arise from a political policy. Therefore, these restrictive measures are the result of the Government’s policy and for that reason we can say that if the top group makes progress, this must be because the effects of certain statutory measures are either being alleviated, or have disappeared completely from the Statute Book. This makes greater economic mobility for the top group possible.

For that reason one can say it again. It seems improbable to me that this motion makes sense when it asks for the Government to be thanked for the economic progress in this field.

However, if we look at the lowest group, it is also interesting to note which are the principal problem areas identified by the commission itself. I am referring to paragraph 22.46, which reads as follows—

This is a factor to which the hon. member for Oudtshoorn also referred—

There we have it. The bottom group must, in a sense, compete in a free market economy, in which they are to a certain extent restricted by, inter alia, aspects such as the Group Areas Act. Now they are expected to compete with the Whites in order to uplift themselves economically. It is interesting to note how the commission then went on to compare the poor White problem with the Coloured problem and pointed out that these were completely different situations, that they were not comparable, and that for that reason we cannot use the argument that the Whites pulled themselves up by their own shoestrings as it were, and that the Coloured should now do the same. The fact of the matter is that they are in a totally different economic situation, a situation in which they just cannot compete on this basis.

Here we see, therefore, that, if we look at this group in an undifferentiated way, and try to determine their economic development, we are going to run into trouble. We must examine the various sectors in this population group, the problems they have to deal with, and then we realize at once—in this respect I am indebted to the hon. member for Oudtshoorn—that one cannot speak of separate economic structures. The hon. member for Oudtshoorn indicated this clearly. One cannot speak of segregated or separate economic development. They are intertwined, and the moment one says that, one must allow the production factors which apply in the economy to react identically with regard to all these people. In that case one cannot deny these people job opportunities in a discriminating way, one cannot deprive them of capital in a discriminating way and neither can one deny them property and land in a discriminating way. Consequently, all these things indicate that if the degree of economic development to which the hon. member for Oudtshoorn referred is to continue and grow, it will mean that the Government will have to change its traditional policy with regard to the Coloureds.

Then we come to the important question to which the hon. member for Oudtshoorn simply appropriated to himself a reply, viz. that the new constitutional dispensation is, in fact, going to advance the matter. This is not obvious to me. Of course the hon. member did not explain to us how this was going to happen. He merely expressed a blind confidence in the functioning of the new proposed constitution. However, I must honestly say that, as the proposed constitution has now been explained to us, and as I now understand the matter, it could lead us into a period of creative uncertainty. Perhaps something could come of it, but it is not clear to me how the system is going to work in order to improve the economic situation of the Coloured. •

A theory of economic development is implicit in the approach of the hon. member for Oudtshoorn. Conversely stated the question is: How does one determine whether economic development can take place. Does one look at capital expenditure? Does one look at the role of the Government, etc.? When we put these questions about the Government’s approach, and we take the CDC as example, we note that there is a dual approach. On the one hand money is made available to the individual business enterprise, and on the other hand money is made available to the projects of the State itself. Therefore, there is State-guided economic development as well as individually-guided economic development. In this respect an attempt is being made to do this on a basis on which it must compete with the general economic situation in South Africa, in the so-called White economy. Therefore, this is really a contradiction in terms, since there is no such thing as a White economy.

For that reason it seems to me that the only way in which we will see progress in this field, is that the Government should to an increasing extent abandon its traditional policy with regard to the Coloured population, and to an increasing extent allow the Coloured to participate in all the economic opportunities in South Africa as an ordinary and equal citizen. I believe that this is the only way we can accomplish this kind of development. Therefore, I should like to move the following amendment to the motion of the hon. member for Oudtshoorn—

I believe that with this amendment I am removing some of the paternalism and the presumptuousness from the motion of the hon. member for Oudtshoorn.

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Oudtshoorn and the hon. member for Rondebosch have dealt with a point of view regarding the economic development of the Coloured section of our community, and the NRP will also attempt to put forward its point of view in this regard. The motion is phrased in the past tense. It deals with active attempts that have been made by the Government to place the Coloured community on the road of economic development and with the positive results that have been achieved in that regard.

During the course of this debate we therefore hope to hear something about the future of the Coloured people, and particularly about the economic development of that section of our community. If one takes into account the progress that has been made here in the past, one can only come to the conclusion that the economic development of the Coloured people has fallen far behind that of many other sections of the community. If one looks at the Erika Theron Commission report, one finds that the socio-economic position of the Coloured people was indeed one of the main issues in this report.

The hon. member for Rondebosch mentioned certain facts about the groupings indicated in that report. In Chapter 22, page 469, which deals with the socio-economic perspective, one sees that the upper stratum consists of only 20% of the Coloured people. In the lower stratum the figure is about 40%. This comment is made—

This is indicative of what the position has been. Therefore, one looks to the future with the hope that many of these socio-economic problems that have beset the Coloured section of our community will be eliminated so that they can develop in step with the development of the South African economy and other general development taking place in South Africa. That is why we hope that any impediments to such development will be eliminated by the Government to ensure that the Coloured community plays its part in that development as a integral part of the economy in the Republic of South Africa. That development must be along normal lines.

I hope the hon. the Minister will give some indication, when he replies to the debate, of what the Government has in mind for the economic development of the Coloured people in terms of their new dispensation. I say that because the hon. the Minister has made a few statements recently which have certainly raised the hope of many people, and it is hoped that his intentions will be translated into action. Very recently, on 9 February 1979, the hon. the Minister, in referring to the meeting of the Cape Town Relations Committee, said that more would be heard later of the opening of central business districts, recommended by the local committee and also advocated by the Erika Theron Commission. This raises the hopes of people who wish to see the Coloured community able to develop along socio-economic lines—with particular emphasis on their economic development—so that there will be a tremendous increase in their standard of living, particularly of those 40% in the lower stratum of the community referred to in the Erika Theron Commission Report. This has to be taken into account in the development and the rate of population increase in South Africa. The latest figures made available by the Department of Statistics indicate that the birth rate per 1 000 among Whites is 16,8; amongst the Coloureds, 26,3 and amongst the Asians 24,2. From these figures one can see that the Coloured group has a very high birth rate, and consequently opportunities must be made available for these people to participate in the economy of South Africa. That is why it is important to see to it that this upliftment of the Coloured people is accelerated so as to overcome problems that have caused a considerable backlog in the social services provided for the Coloured people.

The hindrances that might develop, and have developed in the past, were indicated in the various reports of the Coloured Development Corporation. We on these benches agree that the Coloured Development Corporation has played a positive role in the economic development of the Coloured people by providing job opportunities and also many other opportunities. The Coloured Development Corporation, however, also seems to be hindered by certain shortcomings such as a lack of funds, particularly for training facilities and the awarding of bursaries. We know that they have also experienced certain other difficulties. We are aware of the problems created by the Group Areas Act mentioned by the hon. member for Rondebosch, problems such as those relating to permits, proclaimed areas and uncontrolled areas. These are all matters that must receive the consideration of the Government; and it it is hoped that if any of these aspects prevent the normal economic development of the Coloured people they will be eliminated. The Coloured Development Corporation has considered many other aspects relating to the economic development of the Coloured community, and one can see, from the reaction to the number of applications granted and the number of applications refused, that some people in the Coloured section of our community are concerned about the fact that more applications are not granted by the Coloured Development Corporation. Unfortunately the latest available report of the Coloured Development Corporation is the one for the period ending 30 September 1977, but this report refers …

You will have the next one fairly soon.

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to hear that. The latest available report shows that 44,2% of applications received during 1977 were approved. In 1976 the figure was 47,4%. If one looks at the overall picture since 1962, one finds that 715 applications were granted while 854 applications were rejected. This seems to indicate a very high number of rejections, an aspect specifically referred to by various witnesses who gave evidence before the Erika Theron Commission. So, although we believe that the Coloured Development Corporation has played a positive role, it is undoubtedly necessary for more funds to be made available to ensure that the Corporation is able to extend the necessary services to people applying for assistance.

While looking at the future, I want to ask the hon. the Minister to tell the House, when he replies to the debate, why there has to be such a large number of directors on the board of the Coloured Development Corporation. A new board was evidently appointed last year and the board membership was increased from 13 to 14 members, the number of Coloured people serving on that board being increased from two to four. This seems to be very slow progress in that in a board of 14 members only four members of the Coloured community are represented.

What is the percentage increase?

The percentage increase is high, but it must be remembered that the number of members of the board is exceedingly high. Fourteen members of the board …

What is the point of appointing board members without experience?

The point is that there are 14 members on the board of directors of the Coloured Development Corporation, but if one looks at the Industrial Development Corporation one finds that there are only nine members on the board. There are six members on the board of directors of the Indian Industrial Development Corporation, of which three are members of the Indian Community. So, 50% of them are members of the Indian community. This is the position with a board consisting of six members. The board of the IDC consists of nine members, while the board of the CDC 14 members.

How do the percentages compare there, Hennie?

I wonder whether the hon. the Minister can give some indication of how he sees the future of the CDC, particularly in view of the new constitutional proposals.

We believe that the Coloured people are part of the overall South African economy, and to ensure that that is recorded I move as a further amendment—

Mr. Speaker, when one hears what the hon. members of the Opposition have to say about the economic development of the Coloured population, one cannot but come to the disconcerting conclusion that Eugene Marais was right when he said that there are people—now, alas, it appears that there are such hon. members on the Opposition benches—who go through life wearing blinkers big enough to blot out the sun. [Interjections.]

In his amendment the hon. member for Rondebosch spoke about the removal of impediments. In fact, he asked that all impediments should disappear as soon as possible. One has great respect for that hon. member …

Not too great!

… but one would so much have liked him to point out just a few of the impediments to us. Surely it is important that we consult one another in this matter and point out to one another the impediments referred to in the amendment.

The hon. member for Rondebosch also said he was pleased to see that the policy of the Government is not static, and that the few examples of progress could be attributed to deviations from the Government’s policy. One must be very stupid and naïve to expect a policy of a Government to be static. The policy of the NP is characterized by the very fact that it is not static, but is continually being adapted in an evolutionary way as circumstances present themselves. In this regard I refer, as example, to the constitution of the council of the Coloured Development Corporation. The council started with two Coloureds; now there are four. Why was there an increase? Because people with greater economic experience came forward, people whom they could utilize for the benefit of their own people. It is precisely as a result of the Government’s policy that such people were able to come forward.

I reiterate that one must certainly be very stupid and naïve if one at this stage still ascribes the lack of progress of the Coloured population in the economic sphere to the policy of separate development. Surely this is not true; surely this is a lack of progress which extends over centuries. However, the most important point is that in the motion under discussion there is no mention of a terminal point having been reached. Surely there is no such thing as a terminal point in the development process of a nation. What is at issue here is that the Government, by applying specific methods and creating opportunities, has placed the Coloured on the road of economic development, something which has already produced spectacular results over the past decade. They are there for all to see. If people are unable to see, to appreciate, to hear and to speak about those results, what is one to do with them? I think one should do with such people what my good old aunt Gesie always did. She merely said: “My dear child, all we can do is pray for them. ”

Let me say at once that it was only possible to achieve these positive results because of a splendid positive reaction on the part of the Coloured population to the opportunities afforded them by the Government. That is important. When opportunities are created and there is a reaction to them, development must take place. This positive reaction holds unlimited possibilities for the Coloureds in the economic field. This favourable positive reaction testifies in a striking way to the growing awareness among the Coloureds of the basic truth that a nation must save itself. This also serves as reply to the hon. member for Rondebosch’s problem: There is a middle class, but what is to become of the underlying stratum?

Are they a nation?

They must be saved by a middle class which must be and will be created.

Among the methods employed by the Government to place the Coloured on the road of economic development, inter alia, they justifiably proceeded on the assumption that the foundation for the development of every nation, in all fields of its national life, consists of the educational and training facilities which have been or are being made available to the nation concerned, as well as—and this is a closely related factor—the utilization of those facilities and opportunities by the nation itself. The correctness of the Government’s standpoint that education and training is fundamental to all development, is clear from findings that appear in a publication of the Organization for European Cooperation and Development. In an article entitled “The residual factor and economic growth” the contribution of education and training to the economic growth of the USA is analysed. The finding is that during the period 1909 to 1929 education and training contributed an estimated 29% to the economic growth of the USA. This percentage grew to 42% for the period 1929 to 1956, and it is expected that in the period 1956 to 1980 education and training will contribute 40% to the economic growth of the USA.

Now let us for a moment take cognizance of the positive steps taken by the Government to improve and develop the educational and training facilities for the Coloured population. In the first place I want to draw attention to the establishment of a separate department of education for the Coloureds, and the transfer of Coloured education to the former Department of Coloured Affairs. Seen in retrospect, this was indeed a milestone in the history of Coloured education. Linked to that, in the second place, was a comprehensive building programme to provide the necessary classroom space. During the period 1973 to 1978 an amount of R65 million was appropriated for this purpose. Between January 1975 and August 1978 74 new primary schools, 28 new secondary schools, two new training colleges, one new technical college and 11 new hostels were built. Measuring by any standard this is a case of: “This takes some doing”.

In the third place there was the introduction of free education and the gradual introduction of compulsory education. In the fourth place there was the establishment of a separate university for the Coloured population. In the fifth place there was the provision of vocational education and technical training through the establishment of a full-fledged College for Advanced Technical Education and the conversion of vocational schools into technical colleges, of which there are six in the country at present. In the sixth place there was the training of farm labourers at the Kromme Rhee Training Centre. In the seventh place the possibility of an agricultural college for Coloureds is at present being investigated. In the eighth place bursaries and loans will be made available for the training of teachers and in respect of other professional and semi-professional services. In the ninth place there is the introduction of training courses and the employment of Coloureds by the various Government departments, such as the Departments of Posts and Telecommunications, Police, Prisons and others. In the tenth place the CDC is playing its part in the training of businessmen in practice.

In very broad outline I have tried to indicate which training and educational facilities have been created by the Government for the Coloured population. Involuntarily the question arises: To what extent does the Coloured population utilize these facilities and opportunities to their own benefit and for their own progress. The reply to this question is to be found only on the basis of statistical data.

In primary schools the number of pupils increased from 276 245 in 1960 to 603 219 in 1978, an increase of 326 974. In the secondary schools the number of pupils increased from 28 585 in 1960 to 119 107 in 1978. During the same period the number of teachers increased from 9 656 in 1960 to 24 461 in 1978. On the tertiary level, i.e. at universities and training colleges, the number of students increased from 2 584 in 1960 to 10 661 in 1978. At technical and associated institutions the number of admissions has increased from 2 274 in 1960 to 6 177 in 1978. In 1965 1 709 study bursaries were awarded and in 1978 3 722.

In this correction I also want to refer to the extremely important service rendered by the CDC in the training of businessmen. Business courses are being offered at all the important centres where Coloureds find themselves.

The question now arises whether the facilities and opportunities for education and training have had any effect on the economic development of the Coloured. On the basis of statistic data this question can again be answered with a definite “yes”. The hon. member for Oudtshoorn furnished interesting figures in this regard.

However, it is obvious that the Coloured employee’s income will now be higher since he is now better trained and has higher education qualifications. Accordingly his productivity and efficiency is now far greater. Greater productivity and efficiency are, of course, coupled with increased remuneration. What we lose sight of, is that it is precisely the protected labour of the Coloureds in the Western Cape which has brought about an increase in their wages, salaries and income because, before this policy was implemented, they had to compete with the Black man’s wages and salaries, which were much lower. As a result of the protection afforded by that policy increased wage scales for the Coloureds are now being implemented. That we cannot deny. Even the PFP must accept that, too, although they do not want to.

Finally, I want to state that, by establishing the abovementioned educational and training facilities and other contributing factors, for example the positive utilization of these facilities by the Coloureds, the Government has actively placed the Coloured people on the road of economic development, but has not yet brought them to their final destination. They have only been placed on the road of economic development. All indications are that the Coloured people are on a road of which the horizons are as wide and extend as far as their own human capacities and ideals.

Mr. Speaker, we have listened attentively to the speech made by the hon. member for Kimberley North, and I think it must be said that the hon. member for Kimberley North is really a very good example of the kind of benevolent approach which one finds among members of his party towards the Brown population of South Africa. Benevolent, but also—I must say—condescending. In other words, there is goodwill towards the Brown population of South Africa, but still a sense of responsibility, as though it were actually the task of the Whites to save the Coloured population from its past [Interjections.] I am coming to that, for a large part of my speech will be devoted to that matter. I also want to prove that that is the very attitude which can frustrate the best attempts unless the progress and advancement of the Coloured community are undertaken mainly at their own initiative.

As far as the speech by the hon. member for Oudtshoorn is concerned, I want to say at once that there was much in it with which I can agree. With his motion, however, I am not so happy. Although he probably did not mean it that way, his motion is also steeped in that kind of paternalism which is rejected by the Coloured population itself. I think that in a motion of this nature, which is so important, one should be very careful neither to make out a case nor to agree with it if it indicates a kind of paternalism which implies that we are the ones who are going to govern on behalf of the Coloured population of South Africa, and not together with it, as an equal partner.

Where this motion refers to the CDC, I want to say at once that we agree with it and that we do not want to discourage the CDC. The value of the development programme is quite clear to anyone who cares to examine it. In addition, as has already been indicated, a further improvement has now been made in that there are more Coloured members than before. The number has increased from two to four. I think it is still a very small percentage, although the hon. the Minister will refer to a 100% improvement. However, it could go much further and much faster. I do want to point out that the CDC in its present form cannot really be more than the trigger of the gun. It is not the gun itself; or, to put it differently, it is the “pump primer”. It is not the pump itself. It is the injector for the pump.

The problem we have with regard to the motion is that it tends to pretend that it is only the Government which can pave the way for the economic development of the Coloured population, and that it is the CDC which must bring about that development. It implies, therefore, that the Coloured population itself has a minor role to play in its own development process. This implies that their own initiative is marginal in the total set-up. It implies that their representative instruments, such as the Coloured Persons Representative Council, are unfit to do the work which has to be done by the Government or Parliament at the moment. It testifies, therefore, to a kind of benevolent paternalism to which we object in the strongest terms, not because benevolence and paternalism are deplorable in themselves, but because they are inappropriate in the present situation.

Why, therefore, does the Coloured population need assistance? What does that need entail and why does it exist? It is only honest, I believe, to admit that the Coloured population group has been neglected by the rulers of this country in the past and that they have become the step-children of the White community in the social structure of this part of our country. There has been discrimination against them, and there is still a measure of discrimination. There has been exploitation, and there is still a measure of exploitation. There have been legal obstructions, and there are still legal obstructions. There have been social restrictions, and these still exist. They exist both in the public and in the private sector, and until such time as those obstructions and restrictions can be removed, we shall to a large extent remain guilty of the lack of progress in the economic development of the Coloured community. It is true that attempts have been made to redress the injustices and to try to compensate for the damage. These attempts are laudable, but as yet we are only at the preliminary stage of that attempt at redress. It is extremely presumptious, in my opinion, to claim credit already for what has been done up to now.

I want to refer, not only to the damage which has been done by obstructions and restrictions of this kind, but to the destruction of the capital values of the Coloured population. The enforcement of the Group Areas Act has destroyed houses, their workshops, their studios, their small-holdings and their business premises. What they created for themselves in the past has been destroyed, according to them, by the relentless implementation of the Group Areas Act. They have been moved and their lives have been disrupted in the implementation of a different policy—it was not their policy—of the Whites. As a result, these capital values are irretrievably lost to them. It is not only their fixed property which has been affected by this; it has been accompanied by a destruction of their social structure, their environmental comfort, etc. The hon. member referred to the transport facilities which were available to them, which they utilized, which they enjoyed and which suddenly were no longer available, and they have not been able up to now to make the same kind of facilities available to themselves. The economic and social coherence of that community was broken. Those aspects form the invisible part of a community’s capital, and that is the part which contributed to the lack of progress of the Brown community.

The hon. member for Kimberley North asked: “Where is the impediment?” He said that their backward position was not due to separate development. I just want to examine that briefly. Let us look at the present state of affairs. How much progress has been made with the participation of the Brown community in the public sector? When one looks at the Department of Coloured Relations, I want to concede at once to the hon. the Minister of Coloured Relations that the talents of the Brown people are being used on a large scale. It is happening as rapidly as possible, especially with regard to schools and education in general, as well as in the department itself. However, the Brown people are not only a part of a separate community. Everyone, including hon. members on the other side, concedes that we are one community, that we must co-operate, especially in this part of South Africa, that we must co-operate in every respect to strengthen that partnership.

The Public Service plays an important part in the general employment and work performed in a community. When we look at the Public Service as a whole, it appears that, in the South-western Cape, for example, there is a very small employment of Brown people, especially in the higher and medium ranks of the Public Service. It is true, after all, that 40% of the employment in the country is in the Public Service and in the public sector in general. With the exception of the lower ranks, there has hitherto been a very small employment of Coloureds in the higher ranks of the Public Service. Unless this can happen, one must surely speak of impediments. Perhaps it is not the fault of the Government, and perhaps it is possible to employ these people in the Public Service, if they have the necessary qualifications, of course. However, it is a fact that more and more qualified people are coming forward, but that the necessary posts are not becoming available. Unless that aspect of the matter is accelerated, we shall find in 10 or 15 years’ time, when we need the contribution of the Coloured population in our public sector—not only in the lower ranks, but also in the medium and higher ranks—that they simply will not be there, because they are not there now. Unless they begin now, unless they gain the necessary experience and promotion, they will not be available in 20 years to fill the posts for which they will be required. As I have already said, it is presumptious to claim credit at this stage for what has been done. It is true that progress is being made, but I think we should be modest about the assistance we have hitherto been able to offer the Coloured population of South Africa.

It is true that progress has been made, that we can thank the Government for attempts which have been made, but we must bear in mind that progress is still for the most part dependent on the recovery which is gradually being achieved by the Brown population itself on its own initiative. It is under way, but only partially, because of the official assistance from the Government side. Their own initiative is actually the crux of the matter, and I agree with the hon. member for Kimberley North about that. I want to refer, for example, to the programme for technical assistance and financial aid to the Third World, a programme which has been offered by the richer countries of the world over a period of years. When one looks at the literature on that programme, one immediately notices that it is already accepted that mere assistance and technical aid which do not involve the initiative of the local people are usually fruitless and unproductive. I think that in a debate of this nature, it is very useful to refer to that again and to point out that the entire success of the attempt is going to depend on the participation, the zeal, the enthusiasm and the dedication of the people for whom the programme is being undertaken, but together with whom it has to be undertaken so that they may eventually be able to continue themselves.

There is a desire among the Brown population in South Africa, especially among the young people, to know and to learn. One senses it everywhere. There is a desire among businessmen to succeed and among families to raise their standard of living. Reference has already been made to the findings of Prof. Sadie, and I think that the conclusions he drew are of the greatest importance. He points out that the drop in the birth-rate of the Coloured population through family planning is actually an expression of the will of those people themselves. It is not something which was forced upon them through legislation by the Government. It is something which they developed of their own free will. It is an expression of will which corresponds with what is happening in other civilized countries all over the world. If one looked at countries such as France, the United Kingdom, the USA, the Federal Republic of Germany and even the White population of this country, it is clear that it is an expression of will which arises from the realization among themselves that they have to raise their own standards of living to be better able to meet the demands of modern times and to enable them to inform their children better and to ensure economic stability. They themselves realize that they must contribute to this by applying family planning of their own free will. This serves as an important example of what the Coloured population is contributing to the improvement of its own economic condition.

The motion as a whole, and now I am not referring to the speeches of the hon. members for Oudtshoorn and Kimberley North, is also a reflection on the Coloured Persons Representative Council as a political instrument. Although it refers to the economic development and the upliftment of the Brown population of South Africa, there is absolutely no reference to the Coloured Representative Council. It only refers to and thanks the Government of the Republic. It is surprising that no reference is made or can be made to the CRC in a motion of this nature. The question may be asked why it was overlooked. If the Coloured Representative Council plays no role or cannot play any role, one must conclude that this testifies either to powerlessness on the part of that political instrument—that it is powerless to do those things which would lead to the economic emancipation of the population group for which it is responsible—or to a disparagement in the motion of the political role of that political instrument. It must be either the one or the other, for there is no other explanation for the silence on the subject of the Coloured Representative Council in this motion.

In the few minutes I have left, I want to refer briefly to the future of the Coloured population in South Africa. It ought to be said more often that we are not the ones who decide about them. They will have to decide for themselves about those things to which they aspire. When motions are moved in this House, or when debates take place, this must please be remembered. We can speak about them, but not for them. They will decide for themselves what their aspirations are, and if we can help them to achieve those aspirations, we shall have done something for them. However, we cannot do it for them.

They aspire to participation in an open community. If there is anyone in this House who doubts this, I advise him to make friends with a few of the Coloured leaders. He will then learn this within five minutes. They strive for a free economic community, and for the right to maintain their own identity as they want it and not as we think they ought to want it. They seek full productivity within their own community and within the South African community as a whole. The South-western Cape region is suffering from an economic decline. The solution to this lies among us and with us. We have a human factor which can and wants to be developed and which wants to contribute as a partner to the general economic development. They could make a contribution as a productive economic asset which could turn the South-western Cape into an area surpassing all the other regions in South Africa if we were to utilize fully the productivity, talents and energy of our Brown people in our community.

The hon. member for Rondebosch said that the motion was a presumptuous one. The hon. member for Constantia said that we should not try to reap praise at this early stage. If one considers the wording of the motion, surely it is clear that it also implies a discussion and meaningful evaluation of the economic progress of the Coloureds in South Africa. If hon. members differ, then this House is the place to present their arguments and not to make unproven personal remarks. The hon. member for Constantia said that the motion implies that Coloureds play a lesser role. There was not a single speech from this side of the House that referred in a derogatory vein to the role of the Coloureds in South Africa. If one analyses the facts one will probably be able to conclude that the Coloureds most certainly play a minor part in the economic development of South Africa. Why? Because less than 1% of the Coloured population is in possession of a matriculation certificate or higher qualification. It goes without say that the Coloureds must be trained. An analysis shows that there are fewer than 100 Coloureds in South Africa who have a university degree in commerce. Now the hon. member for Constantia states that the Coloureds must become involved. But, my goodness me, what is the purpose of the CDC? Is it not in fact to train the Coloureds and to involve them in the entire economic development of South Africa? As they make progress, more things are entrusted to them so that they can make further progress. In the course of my speech I shall deal primarily with the CDC. But before I come to that I want to say that hon. members of both the PFP and the NRP saw fit to implicate the policy of the Government in their amendments to this motion.

The hon. member for Constantia referred to group areas—the old story with which we are so familiar—and referred to the misery allegedly caused by the removals and the mess allegedly left behind when people are removed. How nice it is to be an irresponsible Opposition! They criticize the Government’s policy as it suits them. When it does not suit them, they keep quiet. For example, when it comes to the retail trade, it does not suit them because the argument is that the Coloured enterprises are supported by only a limited buying power. However, not a word is said about the fact that if it were not for the Group Areas Act, in terms of which the White may not compete in Coloured areas, the Coloured shops would not be able to subsist. Not a word is said about the protection which the Group Areas Act affords the Coloured businessman so that the Coloured businessman can make a living. In the past the refrain was that industrial development was being restricted by the group areas legislation. There are no further references to this now because these are now open areas. One finds that not even 0,1% of industrial development is generated by Coloured initiative. What has been established was established owing to the lead taken by the CDC in the process. I shall return to this point later.

The most important leg of this motion deals with the positive role played by the CDC. The hon. member for Rondebosch did say in passing: “They did make a contribution,” but in his amendment he ignored the role played by the CDC entirely. In other words, he deemed the contribution of the CDC to be so insignificant that he did not even have a reference to it in his amendment. I must say to the credit of the hon. member for Umbilo that in the first leg of his amendment he at least accorded recognition to the work done by the CDC in the interests of the development of the Coloured population.

It is delightful and easy to criticize the CDC and allege afterwards that training did in fact take place but on an insufficient scale. That is what is so strange: If you train people to the best of your ability the criticism is levelled that it was insufficient. If you invest capital to assist these people the criticism is once again levelled that it is insufficient. We heard the information in the House this afternoon that in 1975 just over R20 million was invested by the CDC, but that three years later it was R45 million. Consequently it more than doubled to the benefit of the economic development of the Coloured businessmen in this country. But that is ignored; it is not good enough. Comment is at all times derogatory. In the past it was even said—I am mentioning this in passing—that the CDC had had to write off only 0,82% of all its investments as bad debt. This is a great achievement, but in this connection one read in the Opposition newspapers that the board of the CDC was too parsimonious, that it was too conservative when it came to granting loans. However, if the magnitude of the bad debts had been greater, the criticism would probably have been: Look how poorly and badly it is being managed. One can never be right. It is an irresponsible Opposition that can say whatever it pleases.

I believe it is a bitter pill for the Opposition to swallow that the role played by the CDC is such a positive one, that there are monuments everywhere in South Africa testifying to the tremendous progress which has been made by encouraging business acumen, by promoting employment, by establishing business undertakings and by encouraging Coloured enterpreneurship to such an extent that businesses could be handed over to the entrepreneur to carry on with to their own good as well as that of all the Coloureds in South Africa.

That was why it was so important that the Government decided to make the Western Cape a labour preference area. However, that is something else the official Opposition wants nothing whatsoever to do with. They want nothing to do with it because it does not fit in with their socialistic, integrationistic policy. [Interjections.] However, when we look at the results of the labour preference policy and note the progress made by the Coloureds in the economic sphere, that progress is avoided by the Opposition. Even the Erika Theron Commission found that, through the labour preference policy, a great contribution was made to the better utilization of Coloured labour. In this connection I wish to refer to page 90 of the Erika Theron Report. The Erika Theron Report is quoted as it suits them, but when the findings of the commission do not fit in with their policy, those findings are not quoted. Now what is one to do under such circumstances?

In both amendments reference is made to the so-called ideological restrictions which impede any progress by the Coloureds. The Government is therefore being criticized because it is ostensibly owing to its policy that the Coloureds are unable to show any progress. However I want to urge hon. members to take cognizance of the fact that we today have Coloured postmasters, police officers, school principals and even a Coloured deputy head of a Government department. In addition, there are Coloured lecturers and professors. There are also Coloured businessmen who are making progress. It should also be observed that the ranks of professional men among the Coloureds have been swelled. If that is the result of the Government’s policy, is that not in fact the best evidence of a good and positive policy?

It is easy to refer in passing to the restrictions which might have been the result of the gap in salaries. However, we have also seen, from the facts presented by hon. members on this side, how those gaps are being eliminated. Later on, in the course of my speech, I shall submit further evidence in support of this statement. It is also easy to level criticism by saying that the CDC and the Government give primary consideration to the role of the employer, and not to the role of the employee. I want to submit that what the CDC has established has created an opportunity for the employee to play a useful economic role. Allow me to refer to a few aspects. During the past six to seven years, seven branches of Superama Limited employing 240 people were established, and this was done at a cost of R7 million. Those branches are operating on a profitable basis and 180 Coloured shareholders are involved, who themselves own almost 25 000 shares. During the past seven to eight years 28 business centres have been established by the CDC at a cost of R7 million. This applies not only to the Cape Peninsula, but also to Port Elizabeth, Uitenhage, Durban and Johannesburg. In addition 143 shops were provided with capital—and this in a space of only a few years. The CDC also initiated 101 projects of its own and, as they became profitable, 23 of the 101 projects were sold back to Coloured businessmen.

What is more, 80% to 90% of those businessmen were provided with financial backing to take over the business undertakings, and to operate them solely to their own benefit. So one can continue. During the past six to seven years 12 garages have been established, and 11 industries making provision for 63 industrialists in all parts of the country. Those are only a few of the things that have been established, enabling employees to find employment.

The CDC is experiencing restrictive factors. One of these is the limited availability of premises owing to delay on the part of local authorities. Reference has already been made to this during the course of the discussion this afternoon. Mr. Speaker, frequently this is caused by a lack of the right attitude on the part of the local authority in question. Frequently there are local authorities that want to protect White business interests and want to prevent proper and decent economic business development for Coloureds taking place in the areas zoned for Coloureds. I want to say that in this connection the progressive chain stores are most certainly the best example. Is it not the task of all of us in this House to create every possible opportunity for Coloured businessmen to make the maximum progress, even if it is detrimental to certain White business firms?

The CDC is most certainly experiencing problems because, from the nature of the evolutionary progress, there is also a lack of organizational ability which has to be created and developed, and because there is a lack of self-generated capital which has nevertheless increased remarkably in recent times to 41% in respect of individual Coloured businessmen. However, time was necessary to accomplish this. As the history of this matter has shown there was also of course a lack of mutual trust among individual businessmen. Surely that must be the case. It is in fact the role of the CDC to eliminate that lack of confidence and mutual distrust among businessmen so that they can confidently establish partnerships and companies and so that the State can give them the money to do so in their own interests.

Another restrictive factor to which reference was made this afternoon is most certainly the poor planning of certain Coloured residential areas. In residential areas where renewal and resettlement have become necessary for the sake of better accommodation, and not to the disadvantage of the community, the Government makes money available through the Department of Community Development so that a modernization and improvement can be effected in such residential areas. In such an improved, modified residential area better houses will be built, making it possible to establish people from a higher economic class there. This will also give rise to better leadership and better economic entrepreneurship. On the whole a better community can be formed in that way. In the same vein I want to say that the onerous and important task of providing the necessary services in the Coloured areas also rests on our local authorities, even if this were to increase taxation and even if that taxation were to be spread over all layers of the population. Nevertheless, it is essential that there should be decent roads, pavements, street lights and parking facilities in the Coloured areas, because these all contribute to an orderly community. One of the principal restrictive factors is most certainly the fact that White industrialists are not prepared to reach out a hand and initiate enterprises in open industrial areas in conjunction with Coloureds. The Whites would do well to examine their own conscience. For that reason the CDC takes the initiative in bringing these things into existence, so that we can establish a stronger and better Coloured community.

If we pause for just a moment to consider the question of industrial development, we note that there has been exceptional progress in this field during the past three years. The hon. member for Rondebosch does not have the facts pertaining to the past three years at his disposal. With a few exceptions he only has the facts furnished by the Theron report at our disposal. However, it is interesting to see that after tremendous progress was made in the retail trade, industry was the next sector to develop. Today approximately 20% of the funds of the CDC is already being spent on industrial development. We also see that the CDC considers an intensified investigation into the situation in this respect in order to bring about progress in the sphere of industry through the creation of projects to be one of its most important objects.

I just want to point out an example of how dynamically indeed the CDC sets about its task and what it has done in this sphere, apart from what it has done in regard to factories, to which I have already referred. I want to refer to a few other companies. Sherleys Products (1975) (Pty.) Ltd., a White-owned firm, was a leading clothing factory in George. This factory was destroyed by fire, and there was a possibility that the entire company would go into liquidation and that its 300 Coloured employees would be out of work. The CDC made approximately R1,25 million available and then took over and developed it. The benefits implicit in the decentralization policy made it possible for 300 Coloured employees to be employed in that factory today. The result is that a profitable factory was established. A second industrial project which the CDC undertook was to take over from Brits Textiles (Pty.) Ltd. in 1977. This company was purchased with decentralization funds. I am merely pointing out a few of the many examples which exist. This is a company which manufactures polyester products, it was purchased in Johannesburg and moved from there to Atlantis and established there. In that way a large number of work opportunities were created in Atlantis. It is only during the last few years that these things have happened. In 1978 the company Atlantis Knitting Mills (Pty.) Ltd. was one of the group which went insolvent. Who intervened to salvage the situation? The CDC intervened and invested R650 000 in the company. Today it is a factory which is making tremendous progress and which is providing approximately 300 people with employment. So one can continue.

I could also refer to the Drommedaris Visserye (Pty.) Ltd. A total of 190 Coloured fishermen, indirectly in the employ of this company, were in danger of losing their work owing to the fact that larger companies with modern vessels and ships and a great deal of money had ousted those Coloured fishermen so that they had no one to whom they could deliver their lobsters. For that reason the CDC intervened and established a subsidiary company. Today the CDC is financing 190 fishermen with their 290 fishing boats. Those people are not in fact employees of the CDC or of Drommedaris Visserye but are independent fishermen delivering their products to the subsidiary company of CDC, in which they themselves have a share. A portion of the profits are being ploughed back into their own community. Last year this company set a wonderful example by exporting 17 tons of whole cooked lobster to Japan, the first time that this was done by a company in South Africa. These are a few examples of what can be done.

Time does not allow me to dwell on the other achievements and progress in the industrial sphere shown by the CDC during the past few years, and consequently I shall confine myself to the last three years only. Where does the socio-economic development of the Coloureds stand today? What has caused them to be economically active. During the past 10 years the number of economically active Coloureds has increased twofold to one million. What has brought about that the average increase in family income of the Coloureds is 50% higher than the increase in family income of the Whites? What has caused all these things to happen? What has caused the Coloured consumer market here in the Peninsula alone to exceed the gross domestic product of many independent countries of Africa?

What has brought about that Coloured labour remuneration during the past 20 years has increased twelvefold? What has brought about that we have, during the past five years, invested R85 million in schools to further the education of and provide further training for the ¾ million Coloured schoolchildren in this country. Consequently I believe that the CDC and the Government deserve all possible appreciation for their initiative and policy in these special circumstances. This does not mean that we have reached the end of the road. Most certainly not. But let us express appreciation for what has been done, and let us stand shoulder to shoulder as we go forward to meet the future as well. That is why we find that during the past few years, since 1962, the CDC has established no less than 500 undertakings, erected 59 business premises and last year alone invested and made available to Coloured development initiative an additional amount of R4 million. Let us also pay tribute, not only to the economic success of the CDC, but let us also pay tribute to the dedication of the officials and the way in which they set about that task to establish something positive under difficult circumstances. They had to train people, acquire buildings, establish business undertakings and make them available to the Coloureds, and also maintain a follow-up service to ensure that an undertaking continued to function positively, so that afterwards, when it was complete, it could be handed over to the Coloured developer to carry on with.

I conclude by saying that in my opinion the Coloured people are still on the road of business and industrial progress. I believe that the infrastructure has been established, and I believe that in this process we have made better people of them. The Coloured birth and death rate, the child mortality rate and their natural population growth rate have, just as in the case of the Whites, fallen in all cases. In this process we have succeeded in making a better community person of the Coloured, in that we have created more managerial posts, created more work opportunities, caused incomes to rise, opened up more professional opportunities, caused labour peace to prevail, developed modern townships, and established business undertakings. In addition we intend dividing the responsibility in respect of Government power in this country. I believe that with all these things taken together South Africa is performing a tremendous service for and on behalf of the Coloureds of South Africa and with these few words I should like to pledge my sincere support to the motion moved by the hon. member for Oudtshoorn.

Mr. Speaker, I should just like to react briefly to what the hon. member for Durbanville said. The reason I am able to discuss only one or two matters with him, is a shortage of time on this side of the House. Firstly, I should like to remind the hon. member for Durbanville of something. He spoke here about the Opposition members who criticized, only when it suited them. I should just like to remind that hon. member, and perhaps also the hon. the Minister of Coloured Relations, that it is in fact that side of the House that was responsible for banishing the Coloured people into a social wilderness.

Oh no!

Now, if one struts like a peacock, with one’s tail feathers spread, one should count them carefully, for many of those tail feathers have been plucked out. That side of the House, the Government, should remember that they were responsible for banishing the Coloured population of this country into the wilderness. [Interjections.] They cannot dispute that.

You must motivate that.

An hon. member to my left tells me that I have to motivate that. Every speaker on that side of the House today has only spoken of the material part of their contribution in respect of the Coloured population. [Interjections.] Let me say at once that I do not want to suggest in any way that we on this side of the House wish to belittle in any way the work that has been done by the CDC. The hon. member should remember that, while the Coloured population of South Africa were in the wilderness, that side of the House concentrated only on the development of the Whites, for which the Coloured people also had to pay the price. Hon. members maintain here today that they have invested R45 million in this development corporation. That is, in my opinion, a fairly good effort, but the important factor here is this: What happened to the spiritual development of the Coloureds in South Africa? Anyone can hand out presents like Father Christmas, but it is only the generosity of a people that can spiritually uplift the oppressed people of Africa. [Interjections.]

Because of the short time at my disposal, this is unfortunately the only aspect of the speech of the hon. member for Durbanville to which I am able to react. For the benefit of the hon. member for Oudtshoorn, who introduced the motion, I should like to point out that the CDC provides work for only a small percentage of the Coloured population. The hon. member for Durbanville also referred to that. They speak of hundreds, but there are 2,4 million Coloured people. It is of course very necessary to develop a middle class, but today we should not focus the spotlight exclusively on that part of the population; we should also take a closer look at the more comprehensive pattern of our population structure.

†I should like to refer very briefly to further problems that we can expect in the Coloured community, and I certainly hope that all those directors which my hon. colleague referred to—I cannot quite remember how many were there, they were 16 or 19— will bear in mind a few of the facts that I should like to mention today. Firstly, we find that of the 2,5 million Coloureds in South Africa, only approximately 33% are economically active. If one makes a projection of new job opportunities that must be created in South Africa for the total population, one finds a very frightening figure. This should be borne in mind against the background that the number of unemployed people has increased drastically from 1975 to 1977. Unemployment amongst the total South African population has increased by 300%, and who knows how many of those thousands and thousands of unemployed people, are Coloureds. I cannot discover exactly what that figure is, because the Government, that is the Department of Statistics, amalgamates the figure for the Coloured and the Indian.

In regard to this projection as to the number of new jobs that must be created in South Africa, I should like to point out that it is expected—according to the number of new jobseekers at the moment, excluding the thousands of unemployed—that by the year 1980 the economy of our country is going to have to create approximately 1 400 new jobs a day, and that does not include jobs for the thousands of unemployed people in the country. Let us take that projection a little further, and bear it in mind that more than 25% of the jobseekers will be Coloureds by the year 2000. We then find that we shall have to create 2 000 new jobs a day to meet with the demand. The problem, of course, is that the hon. Government—if one might call it that—spends its time on the political manipulation of people instead of allowing the private free enterprise system to take care of providing jobs for the Coloured people. That is why it has now become necessary for them to start developing a body like the CDC. If this Government had stopped tinkering around with the manipulation of people and systems, then I believe the position could have been very different today. If they had spent their time on giving free and compulsory education to the Coloured people of South Africa, the CDC would not have been necessary at all.

The situation at the O’Kiep mine is very relevant to the labour problems that we are experiencing today, because it was the Government that started this monolithic monster of job reservation that we now have. It was the Government that started tinkering with the situation, and the result can be seen at the O’Kiep mine, for instance. [Interjections.] The underlying problem there is that the White mineworkers have accepted the Government and its word for the past 30 years and now insist that they want job reservation. That is what it is.

You are wrong.

The hon. the Prime Minister says that I am wrong, but I am telling him and that side of the House exactly what the underlying attitude of the mineworkers are.

Who started job reservation on the mines? [Interjections.]

This Government perpetuated it. They have entrenched the idea so deeply in the minds of the people that the political platform that they have pounded for the past 30 years, is going to backlash on them. The trouble has only started. The mining industry is going to epitomize the kind of problem that we are going to have as a result of expedient political policies propagated by that side of the House. The chickens have come home to roost. Although the hon. the Minister of Coloured Relations is not directly involved with what I have to say now, I should like to know from him whether he will lend support to three requests that I should like to put to that side of the House

Do you want me to help you now?

I say this in the interest of improved relations between employees and employers. I say it in the interest of the development of the Coloured people of South Africa, the people who are, due to an increase in their education, most likely to start moving into occupational areas that are at present exclusively occupied by the Whites. In this sense I should like to ask the hon. the Minister of Coloured Relations whether he will support me when I call upon the hon. the Minister of Labour to take immediate action to avoid the spreading of further wildcat strikes. I call upon the hon. the Minister of Labour for the immediate establishment of … [Interjections.]

Order! The hon. member is now completely outside the scope of the motion.

Mr. Speaker, It relates very much to the Coloureds who constitute the major number of employees in the copper-mining company at O’Kiep where the stake was started. [Interjections.] It is in the interest of inter-personal relations that I make this call upon the hon. the Minister. I call upon the hon. the Minister of Labour to call immediately for the establishment of a committee comprising members of the Chamber of Mines, the Mineworkers’ Union and the Department of Labour …

Order! That has no relation to the motion.

I respect your ruling, Sir. I can only hope that the Coloureds will come out well of these disputes in the mining industry.

I should also like to say that we on this side of the House strongly support a private free enterprise system. We recognize the value of the work done to date by the CDC. We recognize the value of that work, but the kind of trouble that we are experiencing in the gold-mining industry is due precisely to the ideological restrictions that have been placed upon the development of all the people of South Africa under the false—I say “false”, because the Government will not support it any more—edifices of apartheid and job reservation. I say that while the Government can give R45 million a year for improving the conditions for the Coloureds, what we really need in this country is a change of attitude by the Government.

Mr. Speaker, you rightly instructed the hon. member to come back to the subject under discussion. Listening to the hon. member, and noting his many excursions into other directions, I also observed how ill-acquainted he was with the subject under discussion, so it does not surprise me that he made such peculiar statements here. The hon. member said, among other things, that the Government was responsible for the fact that the Coloured people found themselves in a social wilderness. I do not know exactly what the hon. member meant by that. Is the hon. member a Rip van Winkel in this country?

No.

Is the backward position of the Coloured population in the socio economic sphere a problem of the past decade, or is it a problem which has been experienced in this country for the past three centuries?

The past 30 years. [Interjections.]

For the personal edification of the hon. member: That backward position of the Coloured people originated in the time when his political and spiritual predecessors were still in power in this country. That was the British empire. What did they do to give the Coloureds their due in this country? [Interjections.]

Order!

When the hon. member for Durban North wants to talk about economic circumstances, he will have to do his homework a little better. The hon. member will have to study.

Just give me time.

The hon. member says off-handedly that only 33% of the Coloured population is economically active. He makes that statement without having investigated the matter.

The figures are correct.

I do not question the figures which the hon. member mentioned. However, he did not do any research to ascertain why this was so. If the Coloured population is compared with any other population group in the country, it will be found that the greatest percentage of this group is under the age of 16 years.

You have not explained it yet.

A very small percentage of the Coloured population is over the age of 60 years. Their life expectation is not much more than 60 years. This answers the question. If the greater part of this population group falls in a very youthful age group, the percentage of those who are economically active can be low. The hon. member shakes his head. I want to ask him whether he has ever tried to make a deeper study of this subject.

You have not yet explained.

Of course I have. I am putting it to the hon. member.

You have not made any changes.

I shall not allow myself to be persuaded by the hon. member to venture into the circumstances of the mining industry and the Department of Labour, but I want to tell the hon. member that his knowledge of industrial legislation and the circumstances of the mining industry is obviously limited too. That is the conclusion I draw after having listened to the hon. member. [Interjections.]

The history of the colour bar in the mining industry has absolutely nothing to do with this Government. If the hon. member does not know that, he ought to do some research about the subject, and if he does not, the Minister of Labour and of Mines will make a fool of him, when he discusses this subject.

Just like your policy.

I want to come back to the subject. It is true—and the Erika Theron Commission also identified this—that almost the greater part of the Coloured population finds itself in an economically backward position. It is just regrettable that the hon. member does not know that this has been the case for donkey’s years.

Thirty years.

However, I want to add that it is the ideal of the Government to wipe out that backward position, for reasons, among others, of plain common sense. Surely it is obvious that if a part of the total population finds itself in an economically backward position—for whatever reason … It is not the Government’s fault, as the hon. member alleges. It goes back a long way.

It goes back to the United Party.

It was so even before the period of the United Party. However that may be, surely those people who are lagging behind are retarding the progress of the population as a whole. Therefore, it is a matter of plain common sense that the situation should be outgrown and overcome and that measures should be taken to do this. That is the Government’s standpoint. Since the time when the hon. the Prime Minister was in charge of my portfolio, he has spread this philosophy and said that we should wrench the Coloured population out of that socio-economically backward position. With this in view, several measures were taken even during his time, such as the establishment of the Coloured Development Corporation. However, this is only one of the instruments introduced by the Government in its eagerness to wrench the Coloured population, with its own help, out of its economically backward position.

The hon. member for Kimberley North referred to schemes in the educational field. How very important this is! When one looks at figures in the report of the Erika Theron Commission and later figures, more specifically of the ’seventies, one sees that the income level of Coloured people has risen more rapidly, percentage-wise, than that of any other population group. In this connection I see a direct correlation between this fact and the rise in educational levels and educational facilities at schools, technical colleges and other educational institutions.

That is why I say that the Government’s onslaught on this backward position and its attempt to wrench the Coloured people out of this backward position, with their own help, assumes various forms. Because the CDC is mentioned in the motion, however, and because very specific reference was made to it by the hon. member for Oudtshoorn, who introduced the motion, and because the hon. member for Durbanville also continued this line of argument very effectively, I should like to make a remark in this connection. I am sorry that the hon. member for Rondebosch cannot be here now. However, he apologized to me, because he had to catch a plane. The hon. member for Rondebosch was guilty of one thing. The hon. member for Constantia also tried to do it to a lesser extent, although he was more careful. An hon. member remarked to me that the hon. member for Constantia wanted to follow in the footsteps of the hon. member for Rondebosch, but was just more careful. The hon. member for Rondebosch was shamefacedly angry at the success of the CDC. That was why he said that we should not be too jubilant or lavish in our praises. Why not? I want to analyse this, and now I am reminded of the time before the PFP was a fairly large official Opposition party, when they were represented here by only one hon. member. Another Opposition Party was sitting in this House at that time, some of whose members at that time are now in the PFP. This was the time when the hon. the Prime Minister—who was in charge of Coloured Affairs at that time—introduced the legislation for establishing the CDC. The corporation was reviled by the Opposition at that time. Those sentiments were transferred to the Coloured community. But because success has been achieved since then, the hon. member for Rondebosch is shamefacedly angry about the attitude of his party and its predecessor at that time. That is why he is shamefacedly angry and does not want tribute to be paid. While we are on the subject of the CDC, I just want to say this. We are all interested in rugby in this country, after all. If we are at home on a Wednesday evening, we watch that splendid series which is being presented by Pierre Marais— “Springboksage”—on television. Last Wednesday night we could see Ben du Toit scoring a wonderful try against the All Blacks. Ben du Toit is the man under whose leadership the CDC is able to show such a graph which will soon appear in the annual report and which testifies to the service it renders to the Coloured community. If we are not ashamed of being proud of a sportsman who scores his try, why should we be ashamed and hide it under a bushel if he renders great services to a community, together with his co-directors and staff? They have also succeeded in gaining the confidence of this community, which was initially under the influence of some hon. members who have spoken this afternoon.

A year ago there was a television programme about the CDC, and I found it striking that a prominent member of the Labour Party, a member of the CRC, Mr. Babs Essop, told viewers unequivocally that no one could argue with him about the CDC, as members have tried to do here this afternoon. The CDC had meant a great deal to him personally and he believed that this body was working wonders for this community.

This is where we stand with the success story of the CDC. This body has had such a success story that hon. members whose party opposed the establishment of the CDC are reproaching me this afternoon and saying that there are two few Coloured directors at the moment. It is a wonderful world, to be sure. The hon. member for Durbanville said that whatever one did, one was always in the wrong in the eyes of hon. members on that side of the House.

I told the hon. member for Umbilo that an increase from two to four over a period of three years seems impressive to me. However, the number of directors is not the major priority. The most important consideration, after all, is the experience one wants to build into the board of directors of such a body. We do not want to turn the corporation into a joke; it is not a body where jokes are made. It is a body which must ensure that sound business methods are used by the corporation in its activities.

How many directors does Anglo American have?

I am not interested in that. However, if the hon. member wants to know how many Coloured directors they have, that is a very good question. The hon. member for Umbilo made comparisons with the Industrial Development Corporation and the Indian Industrial Development Corporation and said that they had fewer directors. The Indian Development Corporation has six directors and the Industrial Development Corporation has nine. There has to be a reason for everything, after all. Has the hon. member never thought of that? I spelt it out during the discussion of a Bill here last year that the Coloured Development Corporation was not concerned with only one particular facet of the economy, namely industry, as are the Industrial Development Corporation and the Indian Industrial Development Corporation. The Industrial Development Corporation and the Indian Industrial Development Corporation specialize only in industry. An examination of the Coloured Development Corporation Act shows that it shall be its function to encourage and promote the advancement of the Coloured population of the Republic in industry, commerce and finance. The CDC has to do this all over the country, and for that reason I do not know why the hon. member quarrels with me because of the fact that there are 14 directors.

That is too many.

No, I do not think it is too many. They have a very large area to look after. I have told the hon. member that I believe that one should build experience into the board of directors, and as they acquire the necessary experience, Coloured people must be appointed to those positions. They must serve the Coloured community, and when the experience is there, I am not unwilling to make use of it. However, if the hon. member had made some inquiries, he would have found that among the subsidiaries of the CDC, no fewer than 14 directorships are held by experienced Coloureds. The relevant point is that the composition of the CDC—and I accept the responsibility for it, because I had to handle it last year—is based on business expertise. Starting with the chairman, Dr. Ben du Toit, one could take the directors one by one, and one would find that they are men who have made their mark in South African business, men such as advocate Dawid de Villiers, for example, the former managing director of Sasol, a man we can be proud of The hon. member for Umbilo now wants to take me to task for having built this measure of experience into the board of directors, not for the glory of anyone, but for the economic development of the Coloured community.

I want to react to a further question put to me by the hon. member for Umbilo, and at the same time I shall be replying to the question of the hon. member for Constantia as well. It was asked what the Government had in mind in respect of economic progress under the proposed new dispensation. I hope I shall not surprise or shock the hon. member, but I want to make the statement, knowing how far the Coloured population is lagging behind economically, that if the new dispensation is implemented, I can foresee— and I hope the Coloured leaders will make use of such an opportunity—that there should be opportunity and room for a Department of Community Development to deal with the economic development of the Coloured people.

The hon. member for Constantia made the reproach that there were actually limited opportunities for the Coloured. He referred to my department, inter alia. But he is wrong in saying that, of course. It is not my department, but the Administration of Coloured Affairs, the administrative machine of the Coloured Persons’ Representative Council. There are great opportunities for Coloured people there. He made a plea for the creation of opportunities for Coloured people in other spheres as well. I agree with the hon. member. Hon. members can already see the growth and progress of the Coloureds in the Police Force, the Defence Force and the Post Office. The hon. member for Durbanville reminded the hon. member for Constantia of the fact that there were already Coloured postmasters. I do not think the hon. member knew that such senior positions were already being filled by Coloureds. The opportunities are there. In the administrative sphere, the Administration of Coloured Affairs—I am not speaking now of professional people in the educational sphere—the Coloureds can now advance very rapidly through the recognized channels. The most senior Coloured administrative officer in the Administration of Coloured Affairs is not even on the level of a deputy secretary. In other words, in this particular sector of the Public Service where Coloured people can come into their own, they have yet to attain these ranks through study, experience and training. How can the hon. member now criticize the fact that they do not yet occupy senior positions elsewhere in the Public Service?

I did not say so. I said they were not even on the first rung of the ladder in other departments yet.

The hon. member must understand that progress can only take place along the recognized channels and as a result of dedication, study and experience which have to be gained. The reproach was made here in a general way that the Government was paternalistic in its handling of this matter. The reproach was made that the Government wanted to claim for itself the glory and the honour and to eliminate the Coloureds. An hon. member has already pointed out that the Coloured Persons’ Representative Council is not even mentioned in the motion. I do not blame the hon. member who introduced the motion for not referring to it. There was the strongest opposition from a certain party to the establishment and the activities of the CDC. So that is not a reproach which the hon. member should lay at the door of the Government. Reproaches were flung at the Government to the effect that it was acting paternistically, that it only wanted to show off on its own behalf and did not want to involve the Coloureds. In this connection I want to mention a very topical matter, and that is that in addition to all the special tasks it performs in training Coloured businessmen and providing after-care to entrepreneurs who borrow money from the corporation, the CDC also sets the splendid example of creating opportunities in the projects launched by it or its subsidiaries for professional Coloureds such as attorneys, architects, auditors and so on. I want to ask whether those people who reproach the Government with being paternalistic are in earnest when it comes to the implementation of their ideas. Do hon. members know that apart from Coloured engineers, architects and other professional people, there are already partnerships and companies acting in their own right? I do not think that I am paternalistic when I speak to leaders and members of the Coloured community. But when they open their hearts to me, I have to discover that unlike the CDC, which creates opportunities for professional people among the Coloureds, there are certain local authorities and certain White bodies which make moral and liberal sounds in public, but privately are not inclined to give a Coloured firm an opportunity to do professional work.

Companies or partnership holding those liberal views are inclined rather to entice away qualified Coloureds from those few Coloured firms. I say that we should stop that kind of bluff in this country. We must be honest in what we advocate. There is room for and there is a need for the advancement of our Coloured population in the economic field. Our country needs them. But then we must be honest. For this reason, I want to appeal to companies and especially to local authorities to show their bona fides by offering opportunities, especially in Coloured areas, to professional Coloured people.

I think that this motion has served a very good purpose in that it has drawn the attention of the country to the fine work being done on a wide front and more specifically by the CDC. I want to congratulate the hon. member for Oudtshoorn and thank him for having moved this motion, and I want to express the confidence that this discussion of our Coloured population can only have a beneficial effect.

Mr. Speaker, I want to agree with the hon. the Minister of Coloured Relations that it is a good thing that this motion came before this House. One thing was very clearly revealed today, and that is the Opposition’s total inability to be positive. I do not think that the Opposition parties are expected to sing the praises of the Government, but I think we can expect one thing of them, and that is recognition of the positive aspects in the interests of an orderly and happy South Africa. If they refuse to grant that recognition, I want to tell them that they are creating unrest and tension in this country.

I think back to the words of an editorial in The Cape Times of 26 May 1978, the day when the NP had been in power for 30 years. It contained very irresponsible words. According to that editorial, the population group which had suffered most under the NP regime was the Coloureds. But what was the contribution of The Cape Times to the development of the Coloureds? Had the NP not come to power, what would have become of the Coloureds? If the previous Government had still been in power, the Coloureds might still have been on the common voter’s roll, and then they would still have driven the Coloureds to the polls, as they did 30 years ago, and abandoned them thereafter. Hon. members can look up the debates of 30 years ago in Hansard. Then they will see that no word was ever said about the interests of the Coloureds. We are not presumptious, as the hon. member for Rondebosch said, but we are grateful for having been able to make a contribution to the economic development of the Coloured people.

I want to thank hon. members on this side of the House who participated in the debate on this motion, as well as the hon. the Minister for the information he gave us. I want to thank him for his words and his positive leadership. I also want to thank all the officials of the CDC and the Department of Coloured Relations, people who do their work faithfully every day.

Business interrupted in accordance with Standing Order No. 34 and motion and amendments lapsed.