House of Assembly: Vol7 - TUESDAY 30 AUGUST 1988

TUESDAY, 30 AUGUST 1988 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

†Indicates translated version.

For oral reply:

General Affairs:

State President:

Angolan territory: visit by State President *1. Mr R R HULLEY

asked the State President:

Whether he and/or any Cabinet Minister visited Angolan territory during the last 12 months; if so, (a) why and (b)(i) what areas were visited, (ii) for how long and (iii) under what authority?

†The STATE PRESIDENT:

Yes, I paid a visit to the South African troops in Angola, where they are stationed, to express my appreciation to those who are protecting South Africa’s interests.

Ministers:

Question standing over from Tuesday, 28 June 1988:

Coega/Sundays Rivers: establishment of Black township *12. Mr D J N MALCOMESS

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

Whether the establishment of a Black township in the area between the Coega and Sundays Rivers is being (a) planned, (b) investigated and/or (c) considered; if so, what area?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF NATIONAL HEALTH (for the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning):
  1. (a) No.
  2. (b) With a view to the longer-term land requirements of the Black community, the Department of Development Planning is in consultation with various instances on an ongoing basis investigating possible development areas for the Black community of the Greater Algoa Bay area in terms of the Black Communities Development Act, 1984. Due to the location of the area between the Coega and the Sundays Rivers in relation to the existing township of Motherwell, this area is also being investigated as a possible alternative.
  3. (c) Two applications for the setting aside of land between the Coega and the Sundays Rivers as Development Areas have been received by the Department of Development Planning. These applications will be considered once the investigation referred to in (b) has been completed.

New Questions:

International sporting events: tax rebates for sponsors *1. Mr K M ANDREW

asked the Minister of National Education:

  1. (1) Whether any changes were effected or are to be effected in respect of tax rebates for sponsors of international sporting events; if so, (a) what changes, (b) when and (c) why;
  2. (2) what are or were the criteria for, according international status to, a sporting event and so enabling the sponsor of that event to qualify for a tax rebate;
  3. (3) who makes the decision as to whether a particular event qualifies for a tax rebate for its sponsor;
  4. (4) (a) how many sporting events qualified for such rebates over the latest specified five-year period for which informaton is available and (b) what total amount was allowed in such tax rebates over this period?
†The MINISTER OF NATIONAL EDUCATION:
  1. (1) Yes.
    1. (a) Section 18B of the Income Tax Act, Act 58 of 1962, is not to be amended. The policy in accordance with which the provisions of section 18B are applied has, however, been amended.
    2. (b) 1 April 1988.
    3. (c) The policy has been amended to ensure that the loss of revenue by the Government as a result of section 18B will remain realistic.
  2. (2) In terms of section 18B a sporting event can be regarded as an international event if the Minister of Finance after consultation with the Minister of National Education is satisfied that —
    * it is a type of event which is commonly participated in on an international basis;
    • * a substantial number of the participants or the key participants are or will be persons who are not residents of the Republic; and
    • * that the holding of such event is or will be of material advantage to sporting activities in the Republic.
  3. (3) The Minister of Finance after consultation with the Minister of National Education.
  4. (4)
    1. (a) From the commencement of the provisions of section 18B up to 30 August 1988 a total of 185 sporting events have been considered for such rebates.
    2. (b) Forty-eight applications have been dealt with, which represents a total sponsorship allowance of R14 037 104. A sponsorship allowance, in terms of section 18B of the Income Tax Act, Act 65 of 1986, is an amount that a sponsoring company shall be allowed to deduct from its income.
Western Cape Area Development Board: accumulated deficit *2. Mr K M ANDREW

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

  1. (1) Whether the Western Cape Area Development Board has or had an accumulated deficit; if so, (a) what was this deficit as at the latest specified date for which informationis available, (b) how is it to be dealt with and (c) who decided on how it is to be dealt with;
  2. (2) whether any such deficit is to be (a) written off and (b) taken over by any other body or Department; if so, (i) who made this decision and (ii) by which other body or Department is it to be taken over?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF NATIONAL HEALTH (for the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning):

This matter vests in the Administrator of the Cape Province, and he furnished the following information:

  1. (1) Yes.
    1. (a) On 30 June 1986 a total deficit of R90 013 168,61, which had accumulated since 1974 when the old Administration Boards were established, existed. This amount represents the deficit of the said Boards, the abolished Western Cape Area Development Board and various Black local authorities.

Rest of question:

No decision has been taken as yet. On 1 July 1986, the accumulated deficit of the erstwhile Western Cape Area Development Board was carried forward to the Cape Provincial Government in terms of section 3(1)(a) of Act 75 of 1986: Abolition of Development Bodies Act, 1986. As soon as the audited accumulated deficit as at 31 March 1988 is ascertained, it will be dealt with in terms of section 3(2)(a) of the said Act.

Pensions not collected: suspended *3. Mr K M ANDREW

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

  1. (1) Whether any Black pensioners had their pensions cancelled as a result of not collecting them for a number of months; if so, (a) in respect of the latest specified three-year period for which information is available, what total (i) number of pensioners and (ii) amount of money was involved and (b) what are the regulations and procedures applicable to such cancellations;
  2. (2) whether any changes are envisaged in regard to this cancellation procedure; ifnot, why not; if so, (a) what changes and (b) when?
†The DEPUTY MINISTER OF NATIONAL HEALTH (for the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning):

This matter vests in the Administrators of the respective Provincial Governments. This information, however, was co-ordinated and furnished by the Transvaal Provincial Government:

  1. (1) A pension which has not been collected is not cancelled, but only suspended. Such pensions may be restored immediately.
    1. (a) (i) Statistics are only available in respect of the period July 1987 up to June 1988 and the number of pensioners is as follows:

Tvl:

1 585

OFS:

376

Natal:

1 239

CPA:

44

Total:

3 244

  1. (ii) The total amount involved is not available but the average financial implication is R702 per person.
  1. (b) Regulation 18(1)(i) of the Regulations framed in terms of the Social Pensions Act, 1973 (Act 37 of 1973). The procedure as laid down by Regulation 18(1)(i) is that if a pensioner applies within two years on the form determined by the Provincial Secretary for the pension to be restored, the Provincial Secretary may order, with due regard to the circumstances, that the lapsed social pension be restored as from such date as he may determine, provided that after a period of two years no application may be made for the restoration of a lapsed pension but that a fresh application should be made for the granting of such a pension.
  1. (2) No, not for the present.
    1. (a) and (b) fall away.
Amabele/Stutterheim: road tarred *4. Mr D J N MALCOMESS

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

  1. (1) With reference to the reply of the Minister of Transport Affairs to Question No 7, standing over, on 28 June 1988, (a) when and (b) by whom was the tarred road between Amabele and Stutterheim tarred originally;
  2. (2) whether this road is being retarred at present; if so, (a) by whom, (b) at what estimated cost and (c) why?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF NATIONAL HEALTH (for the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning):

The following information was furnished by the Cape Provincial Government:

  1. (1)
    1. (a) 1976-77
    2. (b) The Divisional Council of Stutterheim.
  2. (2) Yes.
    1. (a) The Department Road Unit of the Cape Provincial Administration.
    2. (b) R1,7 million.
    3. (c) The road was at that time built as a main road with a relatively low traffic count, especially heavy axles. It now forms part of a trunk road which is a direct route from Stutterheim to East London and which will therefore carry the main traffic. This section of road is thus geometrically and structurally not suitable and must be rebuilt in accordance with the required standards.
Trans-Natal: fire-extinguishers in coaches in working order *5. Mr D J N MALCOMESS

asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:

  1. (1) Whether, with reference to the fire on the Trans-Natal on 28 June 1988, the fire-extinguishers in the affected coaches were in working order; if not, (a) why not and (b) when were they last serviced and checked;
  2. (2) whether the South African Transport Services check the fire-extinguishers on trains at regular intervals; if not, why not; if so, at what intervals?
†The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AFFAIRS:
  1. (1) Yes.
    1. (a) Falls away.
    2. (b) The fire-extinguisher in coach 33069 was serviced and checked on 8 June 1988 and that in coach 33042 on 26 June 1988.
  2. (2) Yes, at three-monthly intervals, as well as a visual inspection before the departure of a passenger train, to ensure that fire extinguishers have not been tampered with and that the seals are not broken.
Mr Robert Von Palace Kolbatschenko: relevant facts *6. Mr D J N MALCOMESS

asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

  1. (1) Whether, with reference to his reply to Question No 5, standing over, on 28 June 1988, there has been any change in the position as set out by him in reply to Question No 17 on 26 April 1988; if not, why not; if so,
  2. (2) whether he is now able to make public the relevant facts regarding the granting of permanent residence to Mr Robert Von Palace Kolbatschenko; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant facts;
  3. (3) whether the prosecution authorities have come to a decision regarding appropriate legal action to be taken against the official arrested in connection with the incident; if not, why not; if so, what is this decision;
  4. (4) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS:
  1. (1) to (4) The hon member is referred to my replies to oral Questions No 25 on 1 March 1988, No 17 on 26 April 1988 and No 5 on 21 June 1988. In my replies already given in this House, I have mentioned that:
    1. (a) the official of the Department involved in this matter, Mr J D Scheffer, has been provisionally suspended pending the outcome of any legal action that might be taken against him;
    2. (b) the Department is fully co-operating with the SA Police in their investigation;
    3. (c) the SA Police was supplied with all the available information, a police docket was opened and no final decision with regard to suitable legal action has been taken.

The hon member is furthermore referred to the fact that a commission of enquiry under the chairmanship of the hon Mr Justice L T C Harms has been appointed. The terms of reference of the commission are wide enough to include this matter.

The hon member is also referred to a statement by the Minister of Justice in which, inter alia, the following was mentioned:

The investigation will in the meantime in no way inhibit investigations into possible criminal offences and prosecutions.

The Department of Home Affairs has no part in the taking of decisions to prosecute. This is a matter that rests with the Department of Justice. Questions with regard to prosecutions must consequently be put to my colleague, the hon the Minister of Justice.

Finally, I would like to inform the hon member that Mr Scheffer is currently awaiting sentence in another case in the Regional Court, Pretoria, which has no bearing on this matter.

Staff: medical/administrative *7. Mr R J LORIMER

asked the Minister of National Health and Population Development:

How many (a) medical and (b) administrative staff were employed by his Department as at the latest specified date for which information is available?

†The MINISTER OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND POPULATION DEVELOPMENT:
  1. (a) 177 and
  2. (b) 91 as at 23 August 1988.
The State versus Goosen and Another: cost of trial *8. Mr D J DALLING

asked the Minister of Justice:

What was the total cost to the State of the trial of The State versus Goosen and Another?

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE:

It is impossible to quantify the total cost to the State of a specific criminal case. Such cost could, however, relate to the following items:

Case record

2 Assessors

Subsistence and travel allowance for judge and assessors

Witness fees and expenses (for the State) Man hours of judge and state personnel apportioned to the case.

Mr D J DALLING:

Mr Chairman, arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, was any money spent by the State in funding the defence of the accused persons in the case?

The MINISTER:

Mr Chairman, not by the Department of Justice.

Mr D J DALLING:

Sir, the hon the Minister has not answered the question. Was any money expended by the State?

The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE:

Order† The hon the Minister has replied to the question as regards his portfolio.

The MINISTER:

Mr Chairman. Apart from the items I have mentioned that could be either allocated or apportioned to this case, nothing else has been expended by the Department of Justice.

Peter Kaye-Eddie: contravention of Group Areas Act *9. Mr F J LE ROUX

asked the Minister of Justice :†

  1. (1) Whether a criminal case, particulars of which have been furnished to the Minister’s Department for the purpose of his reply, was heard in the Benoni regional court earlier this year; if so, (a) who was the accused and (b) what was the gravamen of the charges against him;
  2. (2) whether the case has been disposed of; if so, what was the outcome thereof;
  3. (3) whether the case was postponed atany stage; if so, (a) on whose instructions and (b) at whose request;
  4. (4) whether representations for the postponement of this case were received from any persons or bodies; if so, (a) from whom or from what bodies, (b)(i) to whom were these representations made and (ii) what was the nature thereof and (c) why was the case postponed?
†The MINISTER OF JUSTICE:

(1) to (4) I had enquiries made at the Attorney-General and according to him it appears from the case record that Peter Kaye-Eddie is standing trial on a charge of contravening section 26(1) of the Group Areas Act, 1966 (Act 36 of 1966). The case record is a public document and should the hon member require any other information he is at liberty to approach the Clerk of the Court, Benoni, in this regard. The number allocated to the case record is Benoni SH 282/88.

Beer: evasion of GST *10. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Finance:

  1. (1) Whether he or his Department has been informed of and/or received any complaints about alleged general sales tax (GST) evasions involving beer purchased GST-free in Rosslyn near Pretoria for business undertakings in Bophuthatswana and subsequently transported to South Africa for sale at reduced prices; if so,
  2. (2) whether he has taken any steps in this regard; if not, why not; if so, (a) what steps and (b) when;
  3. (3) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
The MINISTER OF FINANCE:
  1. (1) The Inland Revenue Branch of the Department of Finance is aware of such malpractices.
  2. (2) In terms of regulations made in July 1987 under the Sales Tax Act, 1978, as amended with effect from 1 August 1987, liquor traders from neighbouring states may no longer take possession of liquor in South Africa free of sales tax. It is only where liquor sold in South Africa is delivered or consigned by the seller to the purchaser’s address outside South Africa and proof of such delivery or consignment is kept by the seller, that the sale of such liquor is exempt from sales tax. Whenever reports of malpractices in that regard have been received by Inland Revenue, an investigation has been launched, resulting to date in payment of well over R1 million in sales tax and penalty being claimed from the liquor traders concerned. Further investigations are still in progress.
  3. (3) In regard to liquor which is exported from South Africa and then finds its way back into South Africa, there is a clear charge to sales tax in respect of the importation into South Africa of such liquor. However, the lack of clearly defined borders and border control measures such as between some of South Africa’s neighbouring states makes effective enforcement of the provisions of the Sales Tax Act extremely difficult. This is a problem which is receiving consideration in the drafting of legislation with a view to introducing the value-added tax recently announced by the Government.
Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS:

Mr Chairman, arising from the hon the Minister’s reply, does he have any idea how much has been lost in GST revenue to date as far as that contravention is concerned?

The MINISTER:

Mr Chairman, we obviously do not know how much has been lost, otherwise we would have retrieved it.

Springs: assault of Black person *11. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Law and Order:

  1. (1) Whether, with reference to his reply to Question No 1, standing over, on 14 June 1988, the South African Police on the East Rand have conducted any further investigations in connection with the alleged assault of a Black person in a street in Springs by a group of White persons; if not, why not; if so,
  2. (2) whether any forensic laboratory tests have been carried out to establish whether evidence of any type of blood was found on the pavement stones at the spot where the alleged assault took place; if not, why not; if so, (a) when and (b) with what results?
†The MINISTER OF LAW AND ORDER:
  1. (1) Yes.
  2. (2) Yes.
    1. (a) 16 June 1988.
    2. (b) The pavement stones which were pointed out to the South African Police and on which blood was alleged to be present, were forensically examined by the South African Police. The examination of these stones indicated no traces of blood.
Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS:

Mr Chairman, arising from the hon the Minister’s answer, I would like to ask him whether the SAP could find any facts whatsoever either to support the allegations or to verify the accompanying photograph contained in the propaganda based on a report in the Springs and Brakpan Advertiser of 8 January 1988, issued on behalf of the NP, the advertisements widely placed in newspapers by the hon member for Springs on behalf of the NP, used to defame the CP during the by-election campaigns.

The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE:

Order† The hon member is making a speech. That is not allowed. [Interjections.]

Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS:

Mr Chairman, further arising …

The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE:

Order† There is nothing further arising. I put Question No 12.

†Mr J J NIEMANN:

Mr Chairman, on a point of order: After you gave your ruling with regard to the hon member Mr Derby-Lewis, he said that it was “disgraceful”. I take it that that was a direct reflection on the Chair, and I ask you to give your ruling in this connection.

†The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE:

I did not hear the hon member say that. Did the hon member say it?

†Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS:

Mr Chairman, I was speaking to my colleague next to me; it was not meant for the House. [Interjections.]

Mr J J NIEMANN:

Mr Chairman, on a point of order: Even if the hon member addressed it to his colleague next to him, he nevertheless spoke loudly enough for me to hear him say it was “disgraceful”.

†Mr A L JORDAAN:

Yes, we all heard him say that†

†The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE:

Order! Did the hon member say it with the intention of casting a reflection on the Chair?

†Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS:

Mr Chairman, I was referring to this colleague of mine, as I said before. [Interjections.] That is a lovely choir†

†The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE:

Order! No, I request the hon member to answer my question, please.

†Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS:

I did not intend a reflection on the Chair, Mr Chairman.

Transkei Government/JALC Holdings: R11 million dispute *12. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs:

  1. (1) Whether he has at any time raised with General Bantu Holomisa the matter of the R11 million dispute which allegedly exists between the Transkei Government and a South African-based company, the name of which has been furnished to the Minister’s Department for the purpose of his reply; if so, (a) when, (b) why and (c) what is the name of the company in question;
  2. (2) whether his Department has committed the South African Government in any way with regard to this transaction or any other transactions concerning this company; if so, what are the relevant details?
†The MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS:
  1. (1) Yes. On 8 June 1988 Gen Bantu Holomisa accompanied by Brig T T Matanzima, Acting Commander of the Transkei Defence Force, and Col C Duly, Member of the Military Council of Transkei, held discussions in Cape Town inter alia with me, the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, the South African Ambassador in Transkei and members of the Department of Foreign Affairs concerning a number of matter of bilateral interest as well as the security situation in Southern Africa. I was at that time aware of allegations to the effect that JALC Holdings (Pty) Ltd had been refused payment for the construction of a housing project in Ezebeleni and that the Company was faced with insolvency unless payment was effected. Representations had even been made to the SA Government for the Government to suspend further budgetary assistance to the Transkei Government until such time as JALC Holdings had been compensated for the work which they had completed. Although the Department of Foreign Affairs was not involved in this project, we were concerned about the possibility that the project would not be completed and that the Transkei Government would eventually be left holding the baby. The creditors of JALC Holdings could probably have instituted a claim against JALC Holdings and eventually funds would have had to be found by the Transkei Government to repair faulty work and possibly to round off uncompleted work. This in turn could have created an irksome budgetary problem for the Transkei because there would simply not have been funds available for this and my Department could also not have accepted responsibility for it. I therefore asked Gen Holomisa whether he could inform me of the circumstances surrounding this matter. He explained that some of the houses had sustained cracks and that his Government did not intend to pay JALC before the work had been satisfactorily completed. Gen Holomisa also referred to the enquiry of the Alexander Commission and indicated that his Government were waiting for its findings inter alia in as far as it concerned JALC. I agreed entirely with Gen Holomisa that no money should be paid for uncompleted work and also not for defective work. I further stated that the Transkei Government could possibly consider whether it would not be desirable for the legal representatives of the respective parties to discuss the matter in order to obviate the Transkei Government’s eventually being saddled with all these financial woes. When I learned a few days later that rumours were spreading to the effect that I had persuaded Gen Holomisa to favour JALC, I telephoned the South African Ambassador in Umtata personally and asked him to inform Gen Holomisa that my advice to him was under no circumstances to pay a cent until there was clarity on the implications of the various possible developments.
    I may add that my Department and I were already concerned some years ago about the allegations of corruption and misapplication of state funds in Transkei. I and my Department made several attempts to have the allegations investigated by the Transkei Government. It was not an easy task because the Transkei is an independent sovereign state. Nevertheless on more than one occasion I put it to members of the Transkei Government that allegations about corruption and misapplication of state funds in the Transkei were increasing and that it was in the interest of the Transkei to have a proper investigation instituted. In the end the Transkei Government agreed with me and themselves appointed the Commission of which Judge T H van Reenen was the Chairman. This Commission was appointed on 26 February 1986 by the State President of Transkei to investigate the actions of the Department of Commerce, Industry and Tourism. Thereafter I and my Department played an active role in getting the Alexander Commission appointed on 21 August 1986 and in making the funding of the Commission’s costs possible. This Commission was appointed to investigate the activities of the Transkei Department of Works and Energy. On 11 January 1988 the Commission’s mandate was expanded to investigate gambling rights and related matters.
  2. (2) No. There was, however, a case concerning an affiliated company, Temba Construction, details of which I furnish gladly.
    The Transkei Government approached the RSA for financial assistance to the value of R8,3 million for the construction of 231 housing units for the Transkei police, and in 1987 an agreement was concluded with Transkei in terms of which 231 housing units would be constructed at a cost of approximately R12 million for the Transkei police in Umtata. Transkei’s contribution to the project was to have been approximately R3,7 million.
    While the negotiations for the loan were still in progress, Transkei, without liaising with the RSA and contrary to agreed procedures, awarded a tender for the construction of the housing units to Temba Construction (Pty) Ltd, an affiliated company of JALC Holdings. In addition it was learnt that the number of housing units had been reduced in the tender to 134 but that the costs were to be the same as for 231 units. As a result of this the Department of Foreign Affairs informed the Transkei Government that it was not prepared to proceed with the loan agreement.
RSA citizens detained in neighbouring states *13. Mr R R HULLEY

asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs:

  1. (a) How many South African citizens are currently being detained in neighbouring states, (b) what are their names, (c) on what dates were they detained, (d) where are they currently being held, (e) what are the reasons given for their detention and (f) what steps are being taken by the South African Government in this regard?
The MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS:

It would not be in the public interest to publish this information, but the Department of Foreign Affairs will be pleased to furnish available information to the hon member on a confidential basis. I can, however, assure the hon member that the South African Government at all times takes all steps available to it to look after the interests of those concerned.

Mr R R HULLEY:

Mr Chairman, arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, is the hon the Minister prepared to put a figure to the number of South Africans being held?

The MINISTER:

Mr Chairman, I thought I had made it clear to the hon member that should he personally be interested, we will furnish him with information, but I consider it to be neither in the person’s nor South Africa’s interest to divulge this information in public. Should he, however, personally be interested — I do not doubt his personal interest — he can obtain the information.

Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty *14. Mr R R HULLEY

asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs:

Whether South Africa has indicated that it intends to sign the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details?

The MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS:

The position of the South African Government on this matter is contained in a statement of the hon the State President dated 21 September

1987.

Cairo: attendance of talks *15. Mr P G SOAL

asked the Minister of Information, Broadcasting Services and the Film Industry:

Whether a member of the Bureau for Information attended talks in Cairo on 24 and 25 June 1988; if so, (a) which member, (b) why, (c) who

  1. (i) authorised and (ii) financed his trip and (d) what was the total cost of sending this person to Cairo?
†The MINISTER OF INFORMATION, BROADCASTING SERVICES AND THE FILM INDUSTRY:

Yes.

  1. (a) The Director: Media Liaison.
  2. (b) At the invitation of the Department of Foreign Affairs, to assist with the handling of the large number of foreign media representatives who converged on Cairo to cover the talks.
  3. (c)
    1. (i) The Minister of Information, Broad casting Services and the Film Industry.
    2. (ii) The Department of Foreign Affairs in respect of transportation and the Bureau for Information in respect of accommodation.
  4. (d) There was no transportation expense for the Bureau for Information in view of the fact that the Department of Foreign Affairs chartered an aircraft for the visit. Accommodation costs amounted to R560,67.
Mr P G SOAL:

Mr Chairman, arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, was he aware of the official’s visit to Cairo before or after the visit to Cairo?

The MINISTER:

Before the visit, Sir.

Detention of certain person: circumstances *16. Mr J VAN ECK

asked the Minister of Law and Order:

  1. (1) Whether a certain person, whose name has been furnished to the South African Police for the purpose of the Minister’s reply, was detained by the Police in the Johannesburg area on or about 9 June 1988; if so, (a) on what date, (b) in terms of what statutory provisions, (c) where was he held during his detention, (d) on what date was his stay in this place of detention terminated and (e) what is his name;
  2. (2) whether he was released from detention; if not, under what circumstances did his detention cease;
  3. (3) whether his (a) family and (b) lawyers were informed that he was no longer in detention; if not, why not; if so, when in each case;
  4. (4) whether the Police have investigated the circumstances surrounding the cessation of his detention; if not, why not; if so, what was the outcome?
The MINISTER OF LAW AND ORDER:
  1. (1) Yes.
    1. (a) On 10 June 1988.
    2. (b) Section 29(1) of the Internal Security Act, 1982 (Act 74 of 1982).
    3. (c) I am not prepared to furnish these particulars.
    4. (d) 12 June 1988.
    5. (e) The name furnished by the hon member.
  2. (2) No. He escaped from lawful custody.
  3. (3) (a) and (b) Yes. On 4 July 1988 the South African Police informed his family through their legal representative.
  4. (4) Yes. The case is still being investigated.
†Mr J VAN ECK:

Mr Chairman, arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply and in view of the fact that Mr Stanza Bopape was in Police detention and that after his disappearance the Police communicated on three occasions with the attorneys acting on his behalf, on 27 and 30 June …

†The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE:

Order† The hon member must put his question.

†Mr J VAN ECK:

Mr Chairman, may I then ask the hon the Minister why the attorneys were not told on those occasions that he had actually disappeared, because this was not mentioned in any of those three communications.

†The MINISTER:

Mr Chairman, as I indicated to the hon member, this person’s attorneys were informed on 4 July that he had escaped from detention, and that was our official notification to them.

†Mr J VAN ECK:

Mr Chairman, further arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, why did the Police investigation team which investigated the man’s disappearance not contact his father nor make inquiries at his home about his disappearance? [Interjections.]

KTC squatter camp: death of Macincedane Committee member *17. Mr J VAN ECK

asked the Minister of Law and Order:†

  1. (1) Whether the South African Police have investigated the death on 28 January 1988 of a member of the Macincedane Committee of the KTC squatter camp, whose name has been furnished to the Police for the purpose of the Minister’s reply; if so, what is the name of this person;
  2. (2) whether this investigation has been completed; if so, what is the outcome of the investigation; if not, (a) why not and (b) when is the report on this investigation expected;
  3. (3) whether any persons have been detained in connection with the death of the above-mentioned person since 28 January; if so, (a) how many persons and (b) on what dates were these persons (i) detained and (ii) released;
  4. (4) whether any of these persons were released on bail pending a further investigation; if so, what (a) are their names and (b) was the amount of the bail?
†The MINISTER OF LAW AND ORDER:
  1. (1) Yes. The name furnished by the hon member.
  2. (2) Yes. The case docket has been forwarded to the Attorney-General for his decision.
    1. (a) and (b) fall away.
  3. (3) and (4)
    A number of persons were arrested on a charge of murder and are at present still in detention. The court released one of these persons on bail.
Sandkraal/Lawaaikamp: visit by officials *18. Mr J VAN ECK

asked the Minister of Information, Broadcasting Services and the Film Industry:†

  1. (1) With reference to his reply to Question No 14, standing over, on 28 June 1988, what was the total cost involved in respect of salaries, transport, accommodation and entertainment expenses, in sending the two officials of his Department to George from 19 May to 1 June 1988;
  2. (2) whether these officials were sent to George at the request of the Office for Community Services in Sandkraal; if so, what was the nature of this request; if not, who decided to send them to George;
  3. (3) whether these officials supported the view of the Municipality of George in their contact with the local and international press during their visit to George; if so, (a) what was the view of this municipality on the removal of the residents of Lawaaikamp to Sandkraal and (b) at what stage was it decided to support this view?
The MINISTER OF INFORMATION, BROADCASTING SERVICES AND THE FILM INDUSTRY:
  1. (1) The transport and accommodation cost of the two officials amounted to R1 687,83. No entertainment expenses were incurred. There were no additional salary expenses.
  2. (2) No.
    The officials went to George in the course of their normal duties regarding liaison with the local and foreign media as well as the furnishing of information regarding the development of Tembalethu.
  3. (3)
    1. (a) The officials organized a press conference during which the Town Council as well as the MP for George had the opportunity to state their cases.
    2. (b) The officials did not act on behalf of the Town Council of George.
SADF: production/distribution of pamphlets *19. Mr S S VAN DER MERWE

asked the Minister of Defence:

  1. (1) Whether any members of the South African Defence Force were in any way involved in the production and/or distribution of pamphlets reportedly dropped from a low-flying helicopter over the suburbs of Cape Town on 23 May 1987; if so, (a) what are the (i) names and (ii) ranks of the persons involved, (b) in which section of the Defence Force are they employed and (c) on whose instructions were they so involved;
  2. (2) whether he intends taking any action against these persons; if not, why not; if so, (a) what action and (b) when?
†The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE:

(1) and (2) The case is sub judice because it forms part of an interdict against the Minister of Defence, and no information can therefore be disclosed.

Natal Provincial Division of Supreme Court: vacancies *20. Mr R A F SWART

asked the Minister of Justice:

(a) (i) How many vacancies are there on the Natal Provincial Division of the Supreme Court, (ii) what are they and (iii) in respect of what date is this information furnished and (b) when is it anticipated that these vancancies will be filled?

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE:
  1. (a)
    1. (i) One.
    2. (ii) Judge — in view of the promotion of Mr Justice Howard to the position of Judge President.
    3. (iii) 1 September 1988.
  2. (b) In due course. An acting judge has been appointed in order to maintain the numerical strength of the Bench concerned in the mean time.

Own Affairs:

Mafikeng, Bophuthatswana: schools *1. Mr R J LORIMER

asked the Minister of Education and Culture:

  1. (1) Whether there is a school in Mafikeng, Bophuthatswana, which falls under the control of his Department; if so, (a) why, (b) since when and (c) how many (i) teachers were employed and (ii) pupils were enrolled at this school as at the latest specified date for which figures are available;
  2. (2) whether the conditions of employment of teachers at this school differ in any way from those of teachers employed in schools in the Republic; if so, what are the relevant details?
†The MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE:
  1. (1) Yes, three schools, namely Mafeking High School, Mafeking Primary School and the Mafeking Preparatory School.
    1. (a) On the incorporation of Mafikeng into Bophuthatswana the governments of the RSA and Bophuthatswana entered into an agreement whereby the Cape Education Department shall have the right to establish, manage and maintain schools in Mafikeng.

(b)

20 September 1980.

(c)

on 24 June 1988

(i)

(ii)

secondary school

20

293

primary school

19

284

preparatory school

12

246

  1. (2) Yes, in addition to the general conditions they are also entitled to the following:
    Foreign service allowance; rent allowance where applicable; free housing where possible; refund of monthly housing instalment; payment of rates and taxes levied on property; free domestic electricity, water and gas; payment of travelling expenses where applicable; and transfer costs.
Mr K M ANDREW:

Mr Chairman, arising from the hon the Minister’s reply, may I ask him whether there are children other than White children admitted to any of these schools?

†The MINISTER:

Mr Chairman, at the moment I am not quite sure, but I assume that they would be White children only. However, I can give the hon member the answer if he will call me at my office. At the moment I am not sure.

Transvaal: African language compulsory for Std 6/7 *2. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Education and Culture:

  1. (1) With reference to his reply to Question No 40 on 11 March 1988, why is the Transvaal the only province in which the study of an African language is compulsory for Std 6 and Std 7 pupils in White schools;
  2. (2) whether the marks obtained in African languages by these pupils are taken into consideration for the purposes of promotion from one standard to the next; if so, what are the relevant details;
  3. (3) whether his Department intends taking any steps in regard to the study of African languages in the four provinces; if so, (a) what steps in respect of each province and (b) when;
  4. (4) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE:
  1. (1) Because the courses provided by the provincial education departments vary in accordance with local needs.
  2. (2) No, not for the majority of pupils. The marks of pupils who elect to study an African language as a third language up to Std 10 are taken into consideration for promotion purposes.
  3. (3) The hon member is referred to part (2) of the answer to his question 152 on 9 June 1988.
  4. (4) No.
Private/provincial schools: control *3. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Education and Culture:

Whether all (a) private and (b) provincial schools which are attended by both White and non-White pupils fall under the control of his Department; if not, (i) under whose control do they fall and (ii) what categories of such schools fall under his Department?

†The MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE:
  1. (a)
    1. (i) No, only private schools registered in terms of section 2 of the Private Schools Act (House of Assembly), 1986, fall under my Department. Private schools may also register with other Education Departments.
    2. (ii) Pre-primary, primary and secondary schools registered with the Department.
  2. (b)
    1. (i) Schools instituted in terms of the various provincial Education Ordinances and the Educational Services Act, 1967, and which fall under the provincial education departments, the TED, CED, NED and OFSED, fall under my Department. Children of diplomats and members of consular missions may attend these schools.
    2. (ii) pre-primary, primary and secondary schools referred to in (b)(i).
Primary and secondary schools: budgeting formulae for construction *4. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Education and Culture:

  1. (1) What formulae are used in budgeting amounts for school construction in respect of (a) primary and (b) secondary schools;
  2. (2) whether these formulae include provision for cultural and/or recreational facilities; if so, what are the relevant details?
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE:

(1) and (2) In terms of section 2(1) of the National Policy for General Education Affairs Act, 1984 (Act No 76 of 1984) norms and standards for the financing of education fall under the Minister of National Education.

Mr R M BURROWS:

Mr Chairman, arising from the hon the Minister’s reply, can he indicate what formula he has been using for the past two years?

†The MINISTER:

Mr Chairman, the reply is quite clearly that the formula falls under the discretion of the hon the Minister of National Education, and we act on that basis.

Parish Road, Constantia: new school *5. Mr R R HULLEY

asked the Minister of Education and Culture:

Whether it is the intention to build a new school in Parish Road, Constantia; if so, what are the relevant details?

†The MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE:

No, not at this stage.

Local Councils Act: draft regulations *6. Mr R R HULLEY

asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

  1. (1) Whether, with reference to his reply to Question No 5 on 15 March 1988, the draft regulations required by section 6 of the Local Councils Act, No 94 of 1987, have been published; if not, why not; if so, (a) when, (b) what has been the response thereto, (c) when is it anticipated that the (i) regulations will be promulgated and (ii) first local councils will be brought into existence;
  2. (2) whether any further developments have taken place with regard to the six local areas which had applied for local council status by 15 March 1988; if so, what developments in each case?
The MINISTER OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND HOUSING:
  1. (1) No. The concept of Local Councils is new in local government affairs and a variety of matters have to be taken into account in the preparation of regulations to ensure the orderly establishment of local councils. For this reason a private Law Consultant and expert in Local Government affairs has been appointed to prepare the regulations which, on account of their comprehensiveness, could not be provided to me on the anticipated date.
    The draft regulations have recently come to hand and I have requested the comments of the United Municipal Executive of South Africa.
    I am likewise requesting the comments of the Association of Combined Divisional Councils, the Administrators of Provincial Administrations and those institutions in Local Areas which have already indicated their interest in establishing Local Councils. I expect these comments by 23 September 1988.
    After the comments have been considered the regulations will be finalised and promulgated. This will enable me to proceed with the establishment of local councils.
    I refer to my recent interview with the hon member for Constantia, when I informed him of the developments, and I shall be pleased to receive his comments on the draft regulations.
    1. (a), (b) and (c) (i) and (ii) fall away.
      I may add that services in local areas are being rendered by the Western Cape and Algoa Regional Services Councils by virtue of agreements I have entered into in this regard.
  2. (2) No. Please refer to my aforementioned reply.
    Bodies from 14 Local Areas have since applied for the status of local councils.
Mr R R HULLEY:

Mr Chairman, arising from thehon the Minister’s reply, I take the opportunity to thank the hon the Minister for giving me insight into the draft regulations and I will certainly respond accordingly, but I would like to ask him whether he is able to give an assurance that all possible steps will be taken to establish these bodies on 26 October or as close to that date as possible, so that they may be part of the setting up of the regional services councils thereafter.

The MINISTER:

Mr Chairman, we will do our utmost to achieve that as soon as possible after 26 October. That is our intention.

For written reply:

General Affairs:

Independent Black states: criteria for budgetary aid 1141. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs:

  1. (1) What criteria are used in determining the amount of budgetary aid to be allocated to the four independent Black states;
  2. (2) whether his Department has information on the total amount budgeted by these states during the latest specified five-year period for which figures are available; if so, what percentage of this amount was contributed by the Republic during this period?
The MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS:
  1. (1) Since the establishment of the Joint Financial Adjustment Committees between South Africa and the TBVC States, multiyear adjustment programmes have been launched which are used as a guideline for determining the extent of budgetary aid. These multi-year programmes in short should ideally entail an increase in budgetary assistance of 25% per annum (with 1986/87 as the basis year), the growth rate in current expenditure being limited to 10% per annum and that in respect of capital expenditure, use be made mainly of concessionary funding in order to facilitate a 20% growth per annum in total capital expenditure. At the same time the own revenue of the TBVC States should increase by 20% per annum. The main purpose of this programme is to reach a break-even point between revenue and expenditure in 1991/92 which will eliminate the necessity of mobilising any bridging finance.
    In terms of the multi-year adjustment programmes, task teams, consisting of officials from RSA Government Departments, the Development Bank of Southern Africa and the respective independent states, jointly meet on a regular basis to pay penetrating attention to each state’s draft budget as well as to discuss other important budgetary matters which during the course of a financial year may require special attention.
    As regards a more equitable approach to budgetary aid, the South African Government is still of the opinion that the system of norms and standards should form the basis for future financial relations between South Africa and the TBVC States. Due to various reasons this system could not be implemented up until now.
    However, the Multilateral Technical Committee on Finance reached consensus that, in order not to delay the implementation of the system of norms and standards, the following inputs also be used in determining the extent of budgetary aid in respect of the 1988/89 financial year:
    • — the needs of the TBVC States; and
    • — the preliminary findings of an investigation under the chairmanship of the Central Economic Advisory Service, concerning the adoption of a macro view of realistic financial relations between the various Governments and levels of Government within South Africa.
    Moreover the following inputs have also been used in determining the extent of the budgetary aid:
    • — a contribution in respect of occupationally differentiated salaries which is necessary due to the integrated nature of the South African economy.
    • — a 50% contribution from South Africa in respect of a programme to reach parity with regard to social pensions.
    • — contributions in respect of additional costs incurred when additional land is added to the TBVC States as well as contributions in respect of new services which are being undertaken by them.
    • — a contribution towards the costs of establishing a Population Development Programme in each of the TBVC States.
  2. (2) The required information is furnished in the table here below:

Transkei R million

%

Bophuthatswana R million

%

Venda R million

%

Ciskei R million

%

1984/85

r896,91)

26,23)

R1 029,31)

5,13)

R245,21)

51,53)

R459,81)

41,53)

1985/86

R1 180,31)

26,13)

R1 270,91)

14,53)

R274,51)

48,63)

R606,01)

36,83)

1986/87

R1 312,72)

29,34)

R1 410,72)

13,14)

R399,52)

44,34)

R729,02)

36,64)

1987/88

R1 604,42)

33,64)

R1 662,32)

21,64)

R514,82)

44,34)

R947,02)

35,34)

1988/89

R1 952,02)

34,54)

R1 746,02)

25,04)

R568,02)

49,54)

R1 068,52)

38,54)

Notes:

1) Actual expenditure according to Auditor-General reports.

2) Total estimates of expenditures (original as well as additional estimates of expenditure).

3) Direct financial assistance by South Africa as a percentage of actual expenditure.

4) Direct financial assistance by South Africa as a percentage of total estimated expenditure.

Diplomatic vehicles: number-plate system 1329. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs:

Whether, with reference to his reply to Question No 2 on 7 June 1988, the number-plate system for diplomatic vehicles used by South Africa differs from the system used in (a) the United Kingdom, (b) West Germany, (c) France and (d) Japan; if so, what are the relevant details?

The MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS:

Yes, although not materially in the case of Japan. It will not be in South Africa’s interest to furnish the pertinent details. I or the Chief of Protocol of the Department will be pleased to explain to the Honourable Member the reason for this.

Own Affairs:

Teachers: applications refused 175. Mr K M ANDREW

asked the Minister of Education and Culture:

Whether any applications from suitably qualified (a) primary and (b) secondary school teachers for posts at schools under his control were refused by his Department in 1988; if so, (i) why, (ii) how many in each case and (iii) in which regions?

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE:
  1. (a) and (b)
    1. (i) Yes, vacancies are advertised on a regular basis. It is a normal phenomenon that management councils receive more applications than the available vacancies. Consequently all applicants are not placed in posts.
      Supplementary reasons include: the use of incorrect application forms, applications submitted to late and insufficient qualifications for the post concerned.
    2. (ii) It is not possible to determine these numbers,
    3. (iii) in all the regions concerned.
Student teachers: bursaries 177. Mr K M ANDREW

asked the Minister of Education and Culture:

(a) How many bursaries were granted by his Department to student teachers in 1988 and (b) what was the total amount granted in that year?

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE:
  1. (a) 9 044;
  2. (b) R41 154 947.
1987-88 budget: over-/underspending 178. Mr R M BURROWS

asked the Minister of Education and Culture:

  1. (1) Whether his Department overspent or underspent in the 1987-88 financial year in comparison with the budgeted figures for his Department for that year; if so, (a)(i) what was the amount so overspent or underspent in the 1987-88 financial year and (ii) why and (b) what percentage does this represent of his Department’s total budget for that year;
  2. (2) whether his Department was obliged to carry forward the amount overspent in the said year to the 1988-89 financial year or permitted to carry forward any surplus moneys; if not, why not; if so, what has been the effect of such action;
  3. (3) whether his Department has taken any steps to make up any deficit; if not, why not; if so, (a) what steps were taken in the 1987- 88 and/or 1988-89 financial year to cut expenditure and (b) what further steps are envisaged in respect of cut-backs in the 1988- 89 financial year;
  4. (4) whether any cuts in the provision of funds to State-aided or private schools are being applied or envisaged for the 1988-89 financial year; if so, (a) what is or was the extent of the cuts and (b) by what body were they authorized;
  5. (5) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE:

This information is not readily available. The financial returns for the 1987/88 financial year have not been finalised.

  1. (1) falls away;
  2. (2) falls away;
  3. (3) falls away;
  4. (4) no;
  5. (5) no.
Natal Teachers’ Society 184. Mr A GERBER

asked the Minister of Education and Culture:†

  1. (1) Whether it is compulsory for teachers in Natal to be members of a certain teachers’ association, whose name has been furnished to the Minister’s Department for the purpose of his reply; if so, why; if not,
  2. (2) whether teachers who are not members of or have resigned from this association are compelled to pay the fees for subscribing to the publication of the association; if so,
  3. (3) whether these subscription fees are collected from teachers by his Department; if so, under what agreement is this done;
  4. (4) what is the name of the association concerned?
The MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE:
  1. (1) No,
  2. (2) no, however they are required to pay professional fees,
  3. (3) falls away,
  4. (4) the Natal Teachers’ Society.
HOUSE OF DELEGATES

†Indicates translated version.

For written reply:

General Affairs:

Own Affairs budgets: formula for transfer of moneys 26. Mr M RAJAB

asked the Minister of Finance:

  1. (1) Whether his Department has determined a formula for the statutory transfer of moneys to the budgets of own affairs departments; if so, (a) what is this formula, (b) how was it determined, (c) for how long has this formula been applied and (d) who had the final say in approving this formula;
  2. (2) whether the Ministers’ Councils of the three Houses of Parliament were consulted before the formula was finalized; if not, why not; if so, with what result;
  3. (3) whether this formula is applied in determining the financing requirements of the three Departments of Education and Culture; if not, (a) why not and (b)(i) what formulae were used in respect of the past two financial years, (ii) how were they determined and (iii) which own affairs administrations approved them;
  4. (4) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
The MINISTER OF FINANCE:
  1. (1) Regarding education, the Minister of Finance has already given his approval for the application of a subsidy formula for education proposed by the Minister of National Education. This formula was used as reference in finalising the budget allocations for education in the current financial year, but has not yet been approved as general education policy by the Minister of National Education.
    Formulae for welfare services and housing do exist, but are not yet being applied as such; they are however, taken into account as a guideline for budget allocations.
    1. (a) , (b), (c) and (d) fall away.
  2. (2) Yes, as far as education is concerned. The National Policy for General Education Affairs Act, 1984 (Act No 76 of 1984), determines that the Minister of National Education must consult with the Ministers of departments of State responsible for education before determining general education policy. This consultation has already taken place in respect of the subsidy formula for education which is already being used as reference in determining the budget allocations for education. Final negotiations are taking place in order to approve these formulae as general education policy.
    The formulae for welfare services and housing have been approved by the Ministers’ Councils of the three Houses of Parliament.
  3. (3)
    1. (a) The formulae for welfare services and housing are not yet being applied, since proposals made by the Administration: House of Assembly in consultation with the other two Administrations for the refinement of the existing formulae are still under consideration. Legislation to authorise the Minister of Finance to determine these formulae after consultation with the relevant Ministers in the three Ministers’ Councils, will be tabled during the 1989 session of Parliament.
    2. (b) Falls away.
  4. (4) No.