→ House of Assembly → 1988 → JUNE, 1988 → House of Assembly: Vol7 - THURSDAY 9 JUNE 1988

House of Assembly: Vol7 - THURSDAY 9 JUNE 1988

THURSDAY, 9 JUNE 1988 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

†Indicates translated version.

For written reply:

General Affairs:

Black urbanization: land 955. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

Whether any land was identified for Black urbanization purposes in the Republic over the past 10 years; if so, (a) where is this land located in each case, (b) what is the area of each piece of land and (c) what (i) was the purchase price and (ii) is the anticipated purchase price in each case?

 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:

Yes. Complete information for the full period is not readily available. In order to make provision for the process of orderly urbanization the following land was identified between 1 January 1986 and 31 March 1988 for Black housing:

(a)

(b)

Situated at (Black township in brackets)

Surface (ha)

Cape Province

Cape Town (Khayelitsha)

1667,0000

Cape Town (Nyanga)

30,1724

George (Tyolorha)

227,4426

Walvis Bay (Kuisebmond)

442,4719

Victoria West (Masinyusane)

24,6241

Kimberley (Galeshewe)

480,4232

Hanover (Nompumelelo)

72,9755

Barkley East (Nkululeko)

47,0013

Port Elizabeth (Motherwell) (Kwadesi)

2693,9491

Bathurst (Nolukhanyo)

33,2733

Uitenhage (Kwanobuhle)

183,8090

Lady Grey (Khwezinaledi)

62,3777

Fort Beaufort (Kwatinidubu)

114,9430

Kenton-on-Sea (Marselle)

237,8657

Port Alfred (Nkwenkwezi)

225,6905

Grahamstown (Rini)

203,9741

Molteno (Nomondo)

165,3652

Cathcart (Katikati)

167,8518

Ugie (Dyoki)

109,1731

Klipplaat (Wongaluthu)

118,6142

Maclear (Sonwabile)

75,6169

Orange Free State

Theunissen (Masilo)

142,0159

Koffiefontein (Ditlhaki)

59,8300

Welkom (Thabong)

1395,7896

Bethlehem (Bohlokong)

777,9130

Bothaville (Kgotsong)

309,8973

Hoopstad (Tikwana)

5,2677

Zastron (Matlakeng)

108,1610

Paul Roux (Motlomo)

121,9418

Bloemfontein (Mangaung)

786,2978

Odendaalsrus (Kutlwanong)

38,6001

Natal

Pinetown (St Wendolins)

±300

Louwsburg (not named as yet)

±125

Durban (Chesterville)

±93

Mooi River (Bruntville)

28,4821

New Hanover (Trust Feed)

±213

Transvaal

Komatipoort (not named as yet)

87,3620

Greylingstad (not named as yet)

57,4197

Witbank (kwaGuqa)

2454,4282

Ogies (Phola)

81,6560

Middelburg (Mhluzi)

509,8985

Ermelo (Wesselton)

261,0869

Balfour (Siyathemba)

85,000

Vanderbijl Park (Sebokeng/Evaton)

916,3978

Bronkhorstspruit (Ekangala)

1648,4052

Nigel (Duduza)

1180,1273

Boksburg (Vosloorus)

2044,2005

Germiston (Katlehong)

1358,6520

Johannesburg (Groter Soweto)

273,3510

Krugersdorp (Kagiso)

757,6144

Pretoria (Mamelodi)

1759,5063

Magaliesburg (Steenekoppie)

198,2428

Randburg (Alexandra)

91,8126

Roodepoort (Dobsonville)

149,3938

Kempton Park (Tembisa)

1359,3784

Alberton (Tokoza)

41,2000

Randfontein (Mohlakeng)

37,7243

Fochville (Wedela) Kriel (not named as yet)

815,0000
  1. (c) (i) Not all the land mentioned in each case above has been purchased with State funds because portions thereof belong to private developers who wish to develop it themselves or have it developed. National Housing funds (loans) were allocated to the various Provincial Government and Black local authorities for the purchase of land in some of these areas. Details regarding the purchase prices as requested are not readily available. However, during the financial year 1986/87 R12 400 592 and during 1987/88 R13 354 175 were allocated from the National Housing Fund for this purpose. A further R30m was allocated during 1987/88 from the budget of the Department of Development Planning for the purchase of land for Black urbanisation.
    1. (ii) Falls away. The expected purchase price is not readily available.
 Group areas: proclamation 1007. Mr S S VAN DER MERWE

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

  1. (1) (a) How many new (i) White, (ii) Coloured and (iii) Indian group areas were proclaimed in each province in 1986 and 1987, respectively and (b) what was the extent of each of these group areas;
  2. (2) (a) how many (i) White, (ii) Coloured and (iii) Indian group areas were re-proclaimed in each of these years and (b) for which race groups were they re-proclaimed in each case?
 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:
  1. (1) (a) and (b)

1986

Cape Province:

White

Coloured

Indian

Nil

13 areas (602 ha)

1 area (30 ha)

Orange Free State:

Nil

3 areas (224 ha)

nil

Transvaal:

1 area (479 ha)

3 areas (500 ha)

2 areas (212 ha)

1987

Cape Province:

White

Coloured

Indian

4 areas (306 ha)

28 areas (4126 ha)

Nil

Orange Free State:

Nil

2 areas (56 ha)

1 area (11 ha)

Natal:

Nil

2 areas (65 ha)

2 areas (12 ha)

Transvaal:

1 area (301 ha)

1 area (48 ha)

3 areas (309 ha)
  1. (2) (a) and (b)

    In 1986, one White group area in Natal was proclaimed for Coloured, as were two in the Transvaal and one in the Cape Province. One Coloured group area in Natal was reproclaimed for Indians.

    In 1987, three White group areas in the Cape Province were re-proclaimed for Coloureds.

 West Rand Development Board 1034. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

With reference to his reply to Question No 488 on 25 March 1988, (a) what was the value of the liabilities of the West Rand Development Board that were transferred to local authorities, (b) (i) to which local authorities and (ii) on what dates were these liabilities transferred and (c) what was the value of the liabilities transferred to each such local authority?

 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:

This matter vests in the Administrator of Transvaal and he furnished the following information:

(a) R203 744 303,94

(b) (i)

(ii)

(c)

Soweto

1983/84

572 846,39

1984/85

112 824 794,41

1985/86

1 096 483,45

114 494 124,25

Diepmeadow

1983/84

107 299,91

1984/85

23 457 037,75

1985/86

93 273,59

23 657 611,25

Dobsonville

1983/84

85 414,94

1984/85

8 224 317,78

1985/86

12 783,75

8 322 516,47

Kagiso

1983/84

252 571,61

1984/85

16 307 913,53

1985/86

132 440,37

16 692 925,51

Mohlakeng

1983/84

53 848,40

1984/85

5 723 337,22

1985/86

40 337,87

5 817 523,49

Bekkersdal

1983/84

16 862,90

1984/85

1 243 522,67

1985/86

2 289,58

1 262 675,15

Alexandra

1983/84

75 198,38

1984/85

33 395 344,83

1985/86

26 384,61

33 496 927,82
Orange Free State: libraries 1072. Mr W J D VAN WYK

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning.†

(a) How many libraries in the Orange Free State fall under the Sub-Directorate Library Service at present, (b) what average daily number of books is handled by these libraries and (c) what (i) is the name and (ii) are the educational qualifications of the person in charge of these libraries?

 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:

This matter vests in the Administrator of the Orange Free State and he furnished the following information:

  1. (a) 357
  2. (b) 17 329 (Except Sundays and Public Holidays)
  3. (c) (i) Mr G L Nordier
    1. (ii) B A degree and Higher Diploma in Librarianship.
 Brits Hospital 1091. Mr A GERBER

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:?

  1. (1) Whether any facilities for (a) Indian, (b) Coloured and (c) Black persons are provided by the Brits Hospital; if so, (i) what facilities and (ii) as from what date in each case;
  2. (2) whether it is the intention to extend these facilities; if so, (a) when and (b) what is envisaged in this regard?
 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:

This matter vests in the Administrator of Transvaal and he supplied the following information:

  1. (1) (a) Yes.
    1. (b) Yes.
    2. (c) No.
      1. (i) 3 beds for Indians/Coloured
      2. (ii) 13 November 1985
  2. (2) No.
    1. (a) and (b) Fall away.
 Natal: roads 1122. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

Which local authorities received loans for roads from the Natal Provincial Administration during the latest specified five-year period for which information is available?

 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:

This matter vests in the Administrator of Natal and he furnished the following information:

No local authorities received any loans for roads from the Natal Provincial Government during the last five-year period. A number of grants were made for improvements to Provincial Roads in Local Authority areas.

 Private schools 1151. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of National Education:

  1. (1) Whether his Department has to approve the establishment of new private schools; if not, why not; if so
  2. (2) whether his Department has given permission for the establishment of new multiracial schools in White group areas; if so, (a) how many such schools were established during the latest specified 12-month period for which information is available, (b) what are their (i) names and (ii) street addresses and (c) why was such permission given, in each case?
 The MINISTER OF NATIONAL EDUCATION:
  1. (1) No. Private schools are being registered in terms of the provisions of laws which are administered by the Department of Education and Training and the respective Departments of Education and Culture.
  2. (2) Falls away.
 Bloekombos: housing 1155. Mr S S VAN DER MERWE

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

Whether his Department or the Cape Provincial Administration is considering (a) a housing project and/or (b) the establishment of basic services for Blacks of Bloekombos, near Kraaifontein; if so, (i) what is the nature of this project, (ii) how many persons is it intended to accommodate there, (iii) what stage has the project reached and (iv) when is it anticipated that the project will be completed?

 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:

This matter vests in the Administrator of the Cape Province and he furnished the following information:

  1. (a) and (b) No.

    Rest of question falls away.

 Airports: catering facilities 1172. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:

  1. (1) Whether the catering facilities at State airports are administered by his Department; if not, by whom are they administered;
  2. (2) whether tenders are called for in this regard; if so, (a) for what period are tenders called for and (b) (i) who were the successful tenderers over the past 15 years and (ii) on what date was each of these tenders awarded?
 The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AFFAIRS:
  1. (1) Yes. The catering facilities which include bookshops are leased by the State to private entrepreneurs on a concessionary basis.
  2. (2) Yes.
    1. (a) Normally for a fixed period of five years with an option to extend the agreement for a further four years and eleven months. At Pierre van Ryneveld Airport, Upington where no catering facilities exist a kiosk is leased on a month to month basis.
    2. (b) (i) and (ii)

Jan Smuts Airport

Successful tenderers:

Date:

Airport Enterprises (Pty) Ltd

1 May 1965

Air Terminal Services SA (Pty) Ltd

1 February 1981

Louis Botha Airport

Successful tenderers:

Date:

L P and A J van den Berg (Pty) Ltd

24 March 1965

Spyskor (Natal) (Pty) Ltd

1 February 1981

D F Malan Airport

Successful tenderers:

Date:

L P and A J van den Berg (Pty) Ltd

28 July 1965

Spyskor (Cape) (Pty) Ltd

1 February 1981

J B M Hertzog Airport

Successful tenderers:

Date:

L P and A J van den Berg (Pty) Ltd

1 June 1967

Spyskor (Pty) Ltd

1 February 1981

H F Verwoerd Airport

Successful tenderers:

Date:

L P and A J van den Berg (Pty) Ltd

28 July 1965

Spyskor (Pty) Ltd

1 February 1981

B J Vorster Airport

Successful tenderers:

Date:

Messrs W L and A Dyason

1 August 1977

Mr W A Dyason

1 August 1987

Ben Schoeman Airport

Successful tenderers:

Date:

Ben Schoeman Restaurant (Pty) Ltd

1 May 1967

Mr F Ferucci

1 February 1981

P W Botha Airport

Successful tenderers:

Date:

Mr L Dyason

1 August 1977

Mr L Dyason

1 August 1987
Airports: book-shops 1173. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:

  1. (1) Whether the book-shops operating at State airports are administered by his Department; if not, by whom are they administered;
  2. (2) whether tenders are called for in this regard; if so, (a) for what period are tenders called for and (b) (i) who were the successful tenderers over the past 15 years and (ii) on what date was each of these tenders awarded?
 The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AFFAIRS:

(1) and (2)

Bookshops form part of the catering concession. Please refer to my reply to question 1172 in this regard.

 Airports: duty-free shops 1174. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:

  1. (1) Whether the duty-free shops at State airports are administered by his Department; if not, by whom are they administered;
  2. (2) whether tenders are called for in this regard; if so, (a) for what period are tenders called for and (b) (i) who were the successful tenderers over the past 15 years and (ii) on what date was each of these tenders awarded?
 The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AFFAIRS:
  1. (1) Yes. The duty-free goods and liquor shops are leased by the State to private entrepreneurs on a concessionary basis.
  2. (2) Yes.
    1. (a) Normally for a fixed period of five years. An option to extend the agreement for a further four years and eleven months was, however, granted in the case of the separate duty free goods shop at Jan Smuts Airport and the combined duty free liquor and goods shop at Louis Botha Airport.
    2. (b) (i) and (ii)

Jan Smuts Airport

For the former combined duty-free goods and liquor shop:

Successful tenderers:

Date:

Jan Smuts Duty Free Shop (Pty) Ltd

1 October 1969

Jan Smuts Duty Free Liquor Shop (Pty) Ltd

25 October 1978

For the separate duty-free liquor shop:

Successful tenderers:

Date:

Jan Smuts Duty Free Shop (Pty) Ltd

12 June 1981

Mount Argus (Pty) Ltd

1 January 1984

For the separate duty-free goods shop:

Successful tenderers:

Date:

SAGAD (Pty) Ltd

12 June 1981

Louis Botha Airport

For the combined duty-free goods and liquor shop:

Successful tenderers:

Date:

Southern Liquor Shops (Pty) Ltd

1 February 1981

D F Malan Airport

For the combined duty-free goods and liquor shop:

Successful tenderers:

Date:

Mount Argus (Pty) Ltd

1 January 1984
National Road Fund 1189. Mr R W HARDINGHAM

asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:

What percentage of the funds available in the National Road Fund was spent on (a) new roads and (b) the upgrading and maintenance of existing roads in each of the latest specified three financial years for which figures are available?

 The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AFFAIRS:
  1. (a) 1985/86: 43,7%

    1986/87: 40,7%

    1987/88: 43,1%

  2. (b) 1985/86: 37,5%

    1986/87: 32,7%

    1987/88: 29,1%

The attention of the honourable member is drawn to the fact that the funds on which percentages were calculated include the allocations made by the National Transport Commission to the provinces but that the percentages mentioned above do not include the National Road Funds’ contributions to Urban Transport Projects.

 Black townships: population 1211. Mr K M ANDREW

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

What was the defacto population of each of the Black townships falling under each community services area as at the latest specified date for which figures are available?

 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:

The honourable member is referred to my reply to Question 159 put by Mr P G Soal.

Own Affairs:

 Cyclone Demoina: farms taken over by State 118. Mr R W HARDINGHAM

asked the Minister of Agriculture and Water Supply:

(1) Whether any farms were taken over by the State as a result of damage caused by cyclone Demoina; if so,

  1. (2) whether any of these farms have been re-allocated; if so, (a) on what basis and (b) (i) to whom were these farms transferred, and (ii) at what cost, in each case;
  2. (3) whether any production methods aimed at preventing a repetition of damage caused by floods are being applied on these farms; if so, what production methods?
 The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE AND WATER SUPPLY:
  1. (1) Yes
  2. (2) Yes
    1. (a) Two economical units were sold b; public auction. Five uneconomica units were sold by tender.

(b)

(i)

(ii)

R

Economical units ULOA Agricultural Co-op Co Ltd

900 000,00

Umhlatuzi Valley Sugar Co Ltd

780 000,00

Uneconomical units Mr U G Groom

200 000,00

Mrs E L Groom

200 500,00

Mrs D P van Rooyen

202 000,00

Mrs M C Fryer

200 500,00

Mr S van Heerden

50 000,00
  1. (3) This responsibility rests upon the owners.
 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

†Indicates translated version.

For written reply:

General Affairs:

Proclamation of group areas 4. Mr W J DIETRICH

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

  1. (1) Whether (a) Salisbury Park, (b) Fairview, (c) Willowdene, (d) Walmer Location in the district of Port Elizabeth, (e) South End, (f) Central Hill, (g) North End,(h) Sidwell, (i) Village Board, (j) The Perl Road area, (k) Dowerville and (1) Veeplaats have been proclaimed as group areas for a specific race group; if so,
  2. (2) (a) (i) for which race group, and (ii) when, in each case, (b) how many (i) residential properties, (ii) churches, (iii) schools and (iv) shops were involved in respect of each of these areas and (c) (i) how many persons from each race group were property owners, and (ii) what was the total valuation of all properties in each such area per race group, as at the date of these areas being so proclaimed;
  3. (3) whether, at the time, the State made alternative arrangements for affected persons who wished to (a) rent, and (b) build their own, homes; if not, whynot; if so,
  4. (4) (a) what arrangements were made in respect of (i) (aa) alternative land and (bb) subsidies for those wishing to build their own homes and (ii) alternative accommodation for those wishing to rent housing units and (b) how many persons in each race group were affected by these alternative arrangements?
 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:
  1. (1) Yes, except Village Board and Perl Road, which are controlled areas and Walmer Location and Veeplaats which, in terms of Act 4 of 1984 as amended, are deemed to be set aside as development areas for the Black group.
  2. (2) (a) Salisbury Park — White (1965)

    Fairview — White (1961)

    Willowdene — White (1965)

    South End — White (1961)

    Central Hill — White (1961)

    North End — White (1961)

    Sidwell — White (1961)

    Dowerville — White (1961)

    1. (b) and (c) This information is not available.
  3. (3) and (4).

    The Department does not have access to this information as it is not responsible for moving people.

 Eastern Cape: proclamation of land for race groups 10. Mr P A CHENDRICKSE

asked the Minister of Constitutional Dvelopment and Planning:

  1. (a) How many hectares of land in the Eastern Cape have been proclaimed for residential purposes for Whites, Coloured, Indians and Blacks, respectively, (b) how many hectares of the land so proclaimed for each of these race groups are (i) undeveloped and (ii) owned by private individuals and (c) in respect of what date is this information furnished?
 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:
  1. (a) (i) White: 79 451 hectares
    1. (ii) Coloured: 23 225 hectares
    2. (iii) Indian: 622 hectares
    3. (iv) Black: 14 076 hectares have been set aside as development areas
  2. (b) Of the land set aside for Blacks, 6 750 hectares were undeveloped and 23 hectares were privately owned. Corresponding information is not available in respect of the other groups.
  3. (c) 4 May 1988.

    For the purpose of this reply, the Eastern Cape is regarded as consisting of the RSA portion of Development Region D.

 Transvaal: proclamation of areas for race groups 17. Mr T R GEORGE

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

How many areas in the Transvaal had been proclaimed for residential purposes for (a) Whites, (b) Coloureds, (c) Indians and (d) Blacks at the latest specified date for which information is available?

 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:
  1. (a) 140
  2. (b) 71
  3. (c) 115
  4. (d) 103

    This information is for the period until 20 May 1988.

 Langlaagte: proclamation as Coloured area 19. Mr T R GEORGE

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

Whether his Department intends proclaiming Langlaagte as a Coloured residential are; if not, why not; if so, when is it anticipated that this matter will be finalized?

 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:

No, no proposal has been received for the area to be investigated by the Group Areas Board for possible proclamation as a Coloured area.

 Riverlea: additional land 20. Mr T R GEORGE

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

  1. (1) Whether his Department intends providing additional land for the purpose of extending the Coloured area of Riverlea; if not, why not; if so, what land is being considered for this purpose;
  2. (2) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:
  1. (1) The Group Areas Board has investigated a proposal for the extension of the Riverlea Coloured group area. As a result of a multitude of surface permits and mining rights owned by mining companies, more than 90% of the land in question was affected to such an extent that development was uneconomic or impractical.

    The Administration: House of Representatives has, as a result, officially withdrawn its proposal in respect of this land.

  2. (2) No.
 Riverlea Extensions 1, 2, 3, 4: extension 22. Mr T R GEORGE

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

  1. (1) Whether his Department has received any representations for the extension of Riverlea Extensions 1, 2, 3 and 4; if so, (a) when, (b) from whom and (c) what is the purport of these representations;
  2. (2) whether any decisions have been taken in this regard; if not, (a) why not and (b) when is it anticipated that decisions will be taken;
  3. (3) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:

This matter vests in the Administrator of Transvaal and he furnished the following information:

  1. (1) Yes. Only for Riverlea Extension 1 and 2. Riverlea Extension 1 has been proclaimed on 30 June 1976 (Proclamation 120 (Administrators), 1976).
    1. (a) Riverlea Extension 2: 13 July 1965
    2. (b) City Council of Johannesburg
    3. (c) Application for township establishment.
  2. (2) Yes. The application for township establishment has been approved by the Administrator on 26 February 1987.
  3. (3) No.
 Riverlea Extension 2: proclamation as Coloured area 28. Mr T R GEORGE

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

  1. (1) Whether his Department intends proclaiming Riverlea Extension 2 as a Coloured residential area; if not, why not; if so, when is it anticipated that this matter will be finalized;
  2. (2) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:
  1. (1) Riverlea Extension 2 is already a Coloured group area. Rest of question falls away.
  2. (2) No.
 Coronationville Hospital: hygiene 29. Mr T R GEORGE

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

  1. (1) Whether the standards of hygiene at the Coronationville Hospital are being monitored; if so, (a) what procedure is followed in regard to pest control in respect of the wards of this hospital and (b) (i) at what intervals are these control measures taken and (ii) by whom;
  2. (2) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:

This matter vests in the Administrator of Transvaal and he supplied the following information:

  1. (1) Yes.
    1. (a) Treatment by means of spraying or by fumigation if necessary.
    2. (b) (i) Twice per week.
      1. (ii) By hospital staff trained for this purpose. However, the Control Horticulturist of the Branch: Hospital Services acts in an advisory capacity.
  2. (2) No.
 Coronationville Hospital: personnel 30. Mr T R GEORGE

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

Whether he will furnish statistics on the personnel of the Coronationville Hospital; if so, (a) how many (i) porters, (ii) cleaners, (iii) office personnel and (iv) (aa) part-time and (bb) full-time doctors were there at this hospital as at the latest specified date for which information is available and (b) how many such doctors were doing (i) day and (ii) night duty?

 The MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT AND PLANNING:

This matter vests in the Administrator of Transvaal and he supplied the following information:

  1. (a) (i) 21
    1. (ii) 162
    2. (iii) 91
    3. (iv)
      1. (aa) 33
      2. (bb) 89 as at 11 May 1988.
  2. (b)
    1. (i) 97 (33 part-time and 64 full-time)
    2. (ii) 25 (full-time).
 HOUSE OF DELEGATES

†Indicates translated version.

For oral reply :

Own Affairs:

Property in Chatsworth: holding costs *1. Mr P T POOVALINGAM

asked the Minister of Housing:

Whether, with reference to his reply to Question No 2 on 19 May 1988, his Department incurred any holding costs in respect of the property in Chatsworth sold to Hamilton Developers (Pty) Ltd in April 1988; if so, (a) what is the amount involved, (b) what rate of interest applied in the calculation of this amount and (c) on what date in April was the property sold to the company in question?

 The MINISTER OF HOUSING:

No.

  1. (a) Falls away.
  2. (b) Falls away.
  3. (c) Falls away.
 Mr P T POOVALINGAM:

Mr Chairman, arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, would the hon the Minister inform this House once again, fully and clearly, without any kind of fiddling around, as to when the property was purchased; how much was paid for it; the date on which the property was sold; for how much it was sold; and how much it cost the State to hold that property?

 The MINISTER:

Mr Chairman, I treat the phrase “fiddling around” with the utmost contempt which it deserves.

 Mr P T POOVALINGAM:

You are scared! [Interjections.]

 The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE:

Order! Has the hon the Minister finished?

 The MINISTER:

No, Mr Chairman, I have not finished.

 The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE:

Order! The hon the Minister may proceed.

 The MINISTER:

Mr Chairman, I just want to treat the statement “You are scared” with the contempt it deserves. If the hon member would learn how to ask his questions …

 The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE:

Order! Did the hon member for Reservoir Hills comment that the hon the Minister was scared?

 Mr P T POOVALINGAM:

Yes, Sir, I did.

 The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE:

Order! The hon member will have to withdraw the remark.

 Mr P T POOVALINGAM:

I have no alternative when the Chair orders me to do so.

 Mr R S NOWBATH:

Spit and lick again! [Interjections.]

 The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE:

Order! The hon the Minister may proceed.

 The MINISTER:

Mr Chairman, I believe the hon member has withdrawn his remark conditionally, and I would suggest that he must withdraw it unconditionally.

 The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE:

Order! Did the hon member fo Reservoir Hills intimate that the hon the Minister was still scared?

 Mr P T POOVALINGAM:

Mr Chairman, I made no conditions. I said: “Being ordered to withdraw, I withdraw.”

 The MINISTER:

That is a condition.

 The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE:

Has the hon member withdrawn unconditionally?

 Mr P T POOVALINGAM:

Yes, Sir.

 The CHAIRMAN OF THE HOUSE:

The hon the Minister may proceed.

 The MINISTER:

I shall answer any questions if the questions are framed properly, and in this case the department did not incur this. Therefore the hon member for Reservoir Hills must direct his questions properly. I have answered the quesion in the manner in which the question has been asked. I may say that if the hon member had referred to the Housing and Development Board he would have got the proper reply. I may also say that whatever decision was taken in this matter was done in full consultation with the Auditor-General. I hope that satisfies the hon member for Reservoir Hills.

 Mr P T POOVALINGAM:

Further arising out of that reply, will the hon the Minister of Housing dare to deny that the property concerned was acquried at a time when the Housing and Development Board was not even in existence?

 The MINISTER:

It is common knowledge that the Housing and Development Board is in existence …

 Mr P T POOVALINGAM:

Yes or no? Answer the question!

 The MINISTER:

… and the hon member must comment publicly and telephone his hon friends in Durban on the statement I have made. Whatever was done, was done in full consultation with the Auditor-General — let him move for a select committee on this.

 Mr P T POOVALINGAM:

Further arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, regretfully the hon the Minister has studiously avoided answering the question. The question is pertinently the following: Does the hon the Minister dare to deny that on the date the property was acquired, the Housing and Development Board did not even exist? It is a simple question.

 The MINISTER:

I am not sure of the date on which the property was acquired …

 Mr P T POOVALINGAM:

Do not fiddle around! Answer the question!

 The MINISTER:

The trouble with the hon member for Reservoir Hills is that he lives in an imaginary world.

 Mr J V IYMAN:

Mr Chairman, further arising from the hon the Minister’s reply, can the hon the Minister tell this House whether the property that was bought was the sole property of the developers from the time of acquiring it up to the date of sale; and did the State not incur any expenses?

 The MINISTER:

If the hon member puts that in writing I shall give him the appropriate reply.

 Mr P T POOVALINGAM:

You are ducking again; you are ducking and diving all the time!

 The MINISTER:

The Chairman, I crave the indulgence of the Chair. I think we have had an appeal about the image of this House. I indicated in this House a few minutes ago that whatever was done in this case was done in full consultation with the Auditor-General. We took that precaution.

 Mr P T POOVALINGAM:

You did not answer the question; you are still evading it.