House of Assembly: Vol7 - THURSDAY 21 APRIL 1988
†Indicates translated version.
For written reply:
General Affairs:
asked the Minister of Education and Development Aid:
- (1) What was the total (a) area of land which had been bought in each province in terms of the Development Trust and Land Act, No 18 of 1936, as at 31 December 1987 and (b) amount paid for this land;
- (2) what area of land (a) was bought in each province in 1987, (b) was added to each self-governing territory and independent Black state in that year and (c) remained to be bought in each province at 31 December 1987;
- (3) (a) what area of (i) land had been added to each self-governing territory and independent Black state as compensation for the removal of Black spots and (ii) compensatory land remains to be purchased in each province, and (b) what was that total area of land held by the South African Development Trust, as at the latest specified date for which figures are available?
(1) |
(a) |
Orange Free State |
212 746 hectares |
Cape |
1 574 202 hectares |
||
Natal |
505 895 hectares |
||
Transvaal |
3 190 344 hectares |
||
(h) |
R1 269 710 501 |
||
(2) |
(a) |
Orange Free State |
26 154 hectares |
Cape |
3 397 hectares |
||
Natal |
1 882 hectares |
||
Transvaal |
17 645 hectares |
||
(b) |
Transkei |
None |
|
Bophuthatswana |
17 hectares |
||
Venda |
None |
||
Ciskei |
46 827 hectares |
||
KaNgwane |
None |
||
KwaNdebele |
55 369 hectares |
||
Lebowa |
None |
||
Gazankulu |
None |
||
Qwaqwa |
10 690 hectares |
||
KwaZulu |
None |
- (c) The required information is not readily available. Certain proposals of the Commission for Co-operation and Development are still to be considered and the decisions on these proposals will affect the extent of the land still to be acquired.
- (3)
- (a) (i) and (ii) Details of the total area of compensatory land which was added to each self-governing and independent state are not kept in a register and the information is consequently not readily available.
- (b) Approximately 2 630 000 hectares comprising land bought by the South African Development Trust and land vested in the said Trust in terms of the Development Trust and Land Act, 1936 (Act 18/1936), as at 31 March 1988.
asked the Minister of Law and Order:
Whether, since his reply to Question No 3 on 28 July 1987, any persons or organizations have been prohibited from issuing or making statements critical of the Government; if so, (a) what persons or organizations, (b) when, (c) why, (d) in terms of what statutory provisions and (e) who took the decision in this regard?
No.
(a) to (e) Fall away.
asked the Minister of Law and Order:
- (1) Whether any complaints were received and charges were laid against members of the South African Police in 1987 in connection with their actions during unrest situations; if so, (a) when, (b) how many and (c) what were the circumstances surrounding these complaints and charges;
- (2) whether these complaints and charges have been investigated; if not, why not; if so, (a) when and (b) what were the findings in each case;
- (3) whether any action has been taken against members of the Police as a result; if not, why not; if so, (a) what action and (b) in respect of how many cases?
- (1) Yes.
- (a) On various dates during 1987.
- (b) and (c) A number of complaints and charges were received. However, separate records are not kept of those complaints and charges which are unrest-related. In addition, the complaints and charges are lodged at police stations country-wide.
To gather and process this information country-wide is a time-consuming task. Members of the Force who would have carried out the task, already perform long hours of duty under difficult circumstances. They can only perform this task at the cost of other important police functions. Such a task can, in addition, not be accounted for economically. On these grounds the furnishing of the requested information can therefore not be justified.
- (2) and (3) Complaints and charges lodged against members of the South African Police are fully investigated. In the case of departmental investigations, the commanding officers of those members decide whether there is sufficient evidence available to institute departmental steps. In the case of criminal charges, the case dockets are referred to the various Attorneys-general for a decision.
I wish to point out to the honourable member that the South African Police maintain strict discipline. Offences are not tolerated and suitable steps are taken without hesitation against members who commit departmental and/or criminal offences.
asked the Minister of Law and Order:
How many persons were killed in unrest-related incidents in each month from February 1987 up to and including January 1988?
I refer the honourable member to my reply to written question 244 which I also regard to be a sufficient answer to this question.
asked the Minister of Law and Order:
- (1) Whether any persons were detained in 1987 for interrogation in terms of section 13 of the Abuse of Dependence-producing Substances and Rehabilitation Centres Act, No 41 of 1971; if so, (a) how many and (b) for what period was each detained;
- (2) whether any of these persons were subsequently (a) charged with and (b) convicted of peddling drugs; if so, how many in each case;
- (3) whether any of the persons arrested in 1987 are still in detention for interrogation; if so, (a) how many and (b) for what period has each been so detained?
- (1) Yes.
- (a) 54 persons.
- (b) To gather and process this information country-wide is a time-consuming task. Members of the Force who would have carried out the task, already perform long hours of duty under difficult circumstances. They can only perform this task at the cost of other important police functions. Such a task can, in addition, not be accounted for economically. On these grounds the furnishing of the requested information can therefore not be justified.
- (2) (a) and (b) Yes, as far as can be ascertained, 46 persons were charged of which 10 persons were thus far convicted.
- (3) No
- (a) and (b) Fall away.
asked the Minister of Law and Order:
- (1) Whether he or the Deputy Minister of Law and Order undertook any overseas visits in 1987; if so, (a) which countries were visited and (b) what was the purpose of each visit;
- (2) whether he or this Deputy Minister was accompanied by any representatives of the media on these visits; if so, (a) what were the names of the journalists involved, (b) which newspapers or radio or television networks did they represent, (c) to which countries did each of these persons accompany him or this Deputy Minister and (d) why;
- (3) whether any costs were incurred by the Ministry of Law and Order as a result; if so, what total amount in that year?
- (1) No.
- (a) and (b) Fall away.
- (2) and (3) Fall away.
asked the Minister of Law and Order:
- (1) Whether (a) he and/or (b) the Ministry of Law and Order sent out Christmas cards in 1987; if so, (i) what total number of cards was printed, (ii) to whom were they sent, (iii) what was the total cost of producing and distributing these cards, and (iv) who was responsible for printing them, in each case;
- (2) whether postage stamps were used to send out these Christmas cards; if not, how were they distributed?
- (1) (a) and (b) Yes
- (i) 300 cards from existing stock were used.
- (ii) The State President, Members of the Cabinet, Ambassadors, Members of Parliament, Directors-General of the different departments and the General Staff of the South African Police.
- (iii) R410,00.
- (iv) The South African Police.
- (2) No. By official mail.
Own Affairs:
asked the Minister of Education and Culture:†
How many pupils were enrolled in White (a) primary and (b) high schools in the Republic in each year since 1980?
(a) |
(b) |
|
1980 |
573 172 |
358 341 |
1981 |
578 137 |
359 727 |
1982 |
580 121 |
366 455 |
1983 |
576 387 |
378 816 |
1984 |
565 094 |
391 731 |
1985 |
551 202 |
401 414 |
1986 |
530 088 |
404 493 |
1987 |
518 881 |
401 568 |
1988 |
512 964 |
397 971 |
†Indicates translated version.
For oral reply:
General Affairs:
asked the Minister of Law and Order:
- (1) Whether the South African Police have conducted and/or are conducting an investigation into a complaint concerning so-called poison-pen letters received by a certain member of Parliament, whose name has been furnished to the Police for the purpose of the Minister’s reply; if not, why not; if so, (a) what was the nature of this complaint and (b) (i) when and (ii) where was it lodged;
- (2) whether any charges have been prepared in this regard; if not, why not; if so, (a) what are these charges and (b) against whom have they been laid;
- (3) whether a politician and a businessman, whose names have been furnished to the Police, have been questioned in this regard; if so, what are their names in each case;
- (4) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
(1) to (4)
A charge of crimen injuria was lodged at Chatsworth Police Station during October 1987 and after completion of the investigation was submitted to the Attorney-General for his decision. This decision is still pending. Therefore the requested information is not furnished, because it may anticipate the judicial process.
aksed the Minister of Transport Affairs:
- (1) Whether the South African Airways (a) have appointed and/or (b) intend appointing Indian males as air stewards; if not, why not; if so, when;
- (2) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
- (1)
- (a) No.
- (b) To date all applications were unsuccessful. Should a suitable candidate apply, and provided a vacancy exists, he will be appointed without hesitation.
- (2) No.
Mr Chairman, arising out of the hon the Deputy Minister’s reply, can the hon the Deputy Minister tell this House what is considered a suitable qualification for an air steward?
I must indicate to the hon member that colour does not play a role. The suitability of a candidate will depend on his ability to perform his task as a male air steward and no other issues will be of importance.
Mr Chairman, further arising out of the hon the Deputy Minister’s reply, can he tell the House whether it is possible for him to furnish us with the criteria according to which someone can qualify as a suitable candidate?
Mr Chairman, I do not have all these service conditions and qualifications so readily available, but if the hon member wishes, the department can supply him with a complete reply on the various qualifications that are required.
Mr Chairman, further arising out of the hon the Deputy Minister’s reply, can he tell the House if his department has called for people of colour to apply for these positions?
Mr Chairman, on numerous occasions we have placed advertisements in the Press and elsewhere, where members of the public, upon seeing this, could have applied. We are therefore doing everything in our power to let the public know when such vacancies do arise and where they can apply.
asked the Minister of Law and Order:
- (1) Whether a certain member of the South African Police, whose name has been furnished to the Police for the purpose of the Minister’s reply, was recently transferred from Scottburgh police station; if so, (a) when, (b) why, (c) to which station was he transferred and (d) what is his (i) name and (ii) rank;
- (2) whether this member was transferred at his own request; if not, at whose request was he transferred;
- (3) whether the cost of this transfer was borne by the State; if not, why not;
- (4) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
- (1) Yes.
- (a) 10 March 1988
- (b) to (d) The member of the Force concerned was stationed at Scottburgh from 4 October 1978. He was promoted to the rank of Lieutenant on 1 December 1987. Scottsburgh has only one post for a Lieutenant which was already filled by the present Station Commander. Therefore, the member of the Force concerned was transferred to Isipingo to fill a vacancy there.
- (2) No. He was transferred to Isipingo because his services were required there.
- (3) Yes.
- (4) Yes. Transfer of members of the South African Police is considered on the grounds of vacancies that arise at individual stations. These vacancies are filled inter alia by transferring members of the Force who are over strength at other stations. Such transfers take place only in the interests of the Force and the service supplied to the community.
Furthermore, I wish to point out to the honourable member that the transfer of officers and members of the South African Police is an internal matter which should not be speculated about publicly.
Mr Chairman, arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, can he give us the assurance that the complaint made by a stupid woman called Mrs Clarke against maintaining a lieutenant of colour at the Scottburgh police station, played no part at all in this transfer?
Mr Chairman, as I have indicated this lieutenant had been a member of the Force for about 10 years at Scottburgh police station, where he did exemplary work. I do not know whether the complaint by this lady which the hon member has mentioned, played any role in this case. As I have indicated here this was done in the best interest of the Force and of the public. This is what we take into account with transfers.
Mr Chairman, we are pleased to accept the hon the Minister’s assurance in that regard.
Mr Chairman, further arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, and in view of the fact that his reply to the second part of the question was in the negative, and that the person in question had been transferred because his services were needed there, may I enquire from him whether, when a vacancy occurs at one of the police stations, there is an internal application system in the department, or whether departmental transfers are simply effected without members of the Force being given an opportunity to apply for various vacancies?
Mr Chairman, there is no internal application system in use in the department at the moment.
Mr Chairman, further arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, I want to say that as far as I am concerned the transfer of the lieutenant was clearly based on his colour because this appeared in the Press. According to Mrs Clarke the transfer …
Order! Does the hon member have a further question arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply?
No, Mr Chairman.
Mr Chairman, further arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, can he tell us whether there were no other lieutenants who qualified for that post earlier than the lieutenant in question? Were there no other lieutenants at other police stations who were suitably qualified earlier than the lieutenant in question?
Unfortunately, Mr Chairman, I do not know the answer to that question. I would therefore request the hon member to table his question, whereupon I shall investigate the matter and furnish him with a reply.
Own Affairs:
— Education and Culture.
[Reply standing over.]
asked the Minister of Housing:
- (1) Whether, with reference to his reply to Question No 3 on 4 June 1987, it is still the intention to retain the Westcliffe Shopping Centre in Chatsworth for use by his Administration; if so, (a) what use is it to be put to by his Administration and (b) when;
- (2) whether this centre is in a state of disrepair at present; if so, (a) why and (b) to what extent;
- (3) whether his Department was approached by the Durban City Council in connection with the state of this centre; if so, (a) when, (b) what was the nature of this approach and (c) what steps have been or are to be taken by his Department as a result of this approach;
- (4) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
- (1) Yes.
- (a) Shopping centre.
- (b) Presently.
- (2) Yes.
- (a) Negotiations were taking place for the sale of the complex to a consortium of the tenants and it was felt that the tenants could have repairs and renovations done at a more reasonable price than the Administration, which would result in a lower selling price being determined.
- (b) It has now become imperative that repairs and renovations be carried out.
- (3) Yes.
- (a) On 3 September 1986.
- (b) By letter.
- (c) During February 1987 it was decided to invite tender of all repairs and renovations to the buildings but the lowest tender according to specification was unacceptable and tenders were accordingly re-invited. These are being adjudicated at present.
- (4) No.
asked the Minister of Education and Culture:
- (1) Whether his Department has been informed that early Indian relics were recently discovered in the Nelspruit area; if so,
- (2) whether the cultural significance of these claims has been investigated by his Department; if not, why not; if so, what were the results of these investigations;
- (3) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
- (1) Yes.
- (2) and (3) Yes.
The Department has been briefed fully by Dr Hromnik who made the discoveries. His literature has been studied closely and representations have been made to the Town Council of Nelspruit for the preservation of the sites. The Minister of National Education is being approached to proclaim the sites as National Monuments. A visit to the sites is also being planned. Every effort is being made to preserve the sites. No response has been received from the Town Council of Nelspruit.
Mr Chairman, arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, may I ask him whether he is aware of the information furnished by the hon the Minister of National Education in which he clearly stated that the archaeological departments of the various universities had found that there was nothing there insofar as Indian relics were concerned?
Mr Chairman, I have taken it upon myself, together with a colleague of mine, the hon the Minister of Local Government and Agriculture, to visit the site in loco in order to satisfy myself that there is something there. I shall do so together with Dr Rhomnick and, if possible with those who have already submitted reports on it, and then hold discussions with my colleague the hon the Minister of National Education.
Mr Chairman, further arising from the hon the Minister’s reply, will he indicate to us whether he has anything firm and concrete with regard to the future development and usage of this site, and have the future plans been stopped or are they currently being proceeded with?
Mr Chairman, in answer to that I want to say that the area has been proclaimed for White housing, but I have sent a telegram to the town council to stay development of that particular area, which is a small area, until we have visited the site.
Mr Chairman, further arising from the hon the Minister’s reply, will he consider inviting the hon member for Chatsworth Central when that proposed meeting with Dr Hromnik and his department takes place?
I have no objection to that, Sir.
Mr Chairman, I am somewhat concerned about the reply to my previous supplementary question, that the hon the Minister of Education and Culture, just by making an appeal by letter, cannot in fact stop the local authority. My supplementary question, arising from that is: has he approached his colleagues who have the capacity to stop such a development from taking place, because he himself has not been in a position to do so?
Mr Chairman, the answer to that is no. I made a request to meet my colleague, but up till now he has not been able to meet me. I met him briefly two days ago, and he has been informed that I will be visiting the place and I will report back to him for discussions.
Order! This concludes our questions.