→ House of Assembly → 1988 → MARCH, 1988 → House of Assembly: Vol7 - TUESDAY 22 MARCH 1988

House of Assembly: Vol7 - TUESDAY 22 MARCH 1988

TUESDAY, 22 MARCH 1988 HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY

†Indicates translated version.

For oral reply:

General Affairs:

State President:

*1. Mr P G SOAL

— State President.

[Withdrawn.]

 KwaNdebele Police Force: proclamation to perform duties in accordance with South African common law *2. Mr P G SOAL

asked the State President:

Whether, in view of the successful application of Chief Gibson Mathebe against the Minister of Law and Order and the Commissioner of the KwaNdebele Police on 6 March 1988, he will consider exercising the powers vested in him in terms of section 25 of the Black Administration Act, No 38 of 1927, read with subsection (4) of section 30 of the National States Constitution Act, No 21 of 1971, to issue a proclamation requiring the KwaNdebele Police Force to perform their duties in accordance with the common law in South Africa; if not, why not; if so, when does he intend to issue such a proclamation?

 The MINISTER IN THE STATE PRESIDENT’S OFFICE ENTRUSTED WITH ADMINISTRATION AND BROADCASTING SERVICES (for the State President):

No. The court has already applied the common law.

Ministers:

Question standing over from Tuesday, 15 March 1988:

*1. Mr P G SOAL

— State President.

[Withdrawn.]

 *8. Mr T LANGLEY

— Law and Order.

†[Reply standing over.]

 †Mr T LANGLEY:

Mr Speaker, may I ask the hon the Deputy Minister what the reasons are for the delay in replying to one simple question? [Interjections.]

 †The DEPUTY MINISTER OF LAW AND ORDER:

Mr Speaker, I have only been asked to request that this specific question once again stand over. There is also a similar question later in the Question Paper, which in my opinion relates to this particular question.

 Mr T LANGLEY:

I think you are afraid to reply to this question!

 Mr SPEAKER:

Order!

New Questions:

*1. Mrs H SUZMAN

— Justice.

†[Reply standing over.]

 Legal abortions *2. Mrs H SUZMAN

asked the Minister of National Health and Population Development:

How many women had legal abortions in 1987 in terms of the Abortion and Sterilization Act, No 2 of 1975?

 The DEPUTY MINISTER OF NATIONAL HEALTH AND POPULATION DEVELOPMENT:

810

 Stutterheim, Eastern Cape: detention centre *3. Mrs H SUZMAN

asked the Minister of Public Works and Land Affairs:

Whether his Department or any persons attached to his Department have been involved in the planning or construction of a detention centre to be built in or near Stutterheim in the Eastern Cape; if so, (a) what is the nature of that involvement and (b) for whom is this detention centre being built?

 The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS AND LAND AFFAIRS:

No

(a) and (b) Falls away.

 *4. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

— Justice.

[Reply standing over.]

 Pretoria: meeting attended by Minister *5. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Law and Order:

  1. (1) Whether he and/or the Deputy Minister of Law and Order recently attended a meeting in Pretoria which was also attended by two persons whose names have been furnished to the South African Police for the purpose of the Minister’s reply; if so, (a) what are the names of these persons, (b) (i) at whose request, (ii) when and (iii) where in Pretoria was this meeting held and (c) (i) what other persons attended this meeting and (ii) in what capacities did they attend it;
  2. (2) whether the question of financial assistance from the State was raised during this meeting; if so,
  3. (3) whether the possibility of the withdrawal of such assistance was raised; if so, (a) by whom and (b) on whose authority?
 †The DEPUTY MINISTER OF LAW AND ORDER:
  1. (1) No
    1. (a) and (b) Fall away.
  2. (2) and (3) Fall away.
 Murderer/s of Dr Robert Smit/wife: statement regarding identity *6. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Law and Order:

  1. (1) Whether the identity of the person or persons who murdered Dr Robert Smit and his wife is known to the South African Police ;
  2. (2) whether the Police have obtained a statement regarding the identity of the murderer or murderers from a certain person, whose name has been furnished to the Police for the purpose of the Minister’s reply; if not, why not; if so,
  3. (3) whether he will disclose the (a) contents of this statement and (b) identity of the person by whom it was made; if not, why not;
  4. (4) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
 The DEPUTY MINISTER OF LAW AND ORDER:
  1. (1) No.
  2. (2) Yes, a statement was obtained, but it did not contain evidence from which the identity of the murderer or murderers could be established.
  3. (3) (a) and (b) No. The identity of persons who make statements to the Police is confidential and the contents of those statements are privileged information.
  4. (4) Yes. The investigation in this case is continuing. The South African Police will leave no stone unturned in tracing the guilty person/s.
 KTC: discussions regarding elections for town committees/town councillors *7. Mr J VAN ECK

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

  1. (1) Whether any official has (a) on the instruction and/or (b) with the knowledge of his Department (i) held any discussions with and/or (ii) put forward any proposals to members of the Masincedane Committee in the KTC squatter camp regarding the possibility of having a town committee and/or town councillors elected by the residents of this squatter camp; if so, (aa) what was the nature of these discussions and proposals and (bb) with how many members of the said committee were these discussions held;
  2. (2) whether his Department intends to proceed with its plans to hold elections for town committees or town councillors in the KTC squatter camp?
 †The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL PLANNING:

(1) No.

Rest of question falls away.

 Oukasie: emergency camp for Blacks *8. Mr A GERBER

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:†

  1. (1) Whether, with reference to his reply to Question No 3, standing over, on 6 October 1987, an emergency camp has been erected for Blacks in Oukasie; if not, why not; if so, what facilities (a) (i) have already been provided there and (ii) when and (b) (i) are to be provided there and (ii) when;
  2. (2) whether any further sites are being made available for squatters at present; if so, (a) how many, (b) how many squatters are on these sites at present and (c) in respect of what date is this information furnished?
 The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL PLANNING:
  1. (1) No. The matter is still being investigated in order to find the most suitable solution to the problem.
    1. (a) (i) and (ii) and (b) (i) and (ii) Fall away.
  2. (2) No.
    1. (a), (b) and (c) Fall away.
 *9. Mr T LANGLEY

— Law and Order.

†[Reply standing over.]

 Cape Peninsula: boycotts at schools on 3 March 1988 *10. Mr K M ANDREW

asked the Minister of Education and Development Aid:

  1. (1) Whether any boycotts affected attendance at schools under his control in the Cape Peninsula on or about 3 March 1988; if so, (a) how many pupils were affected, (b) which schools were involved and (c) what (i) was the duration of and (ii) were the reasons for these boycotts;
  2. (2) whether his Department took any action with a view to ending these boycotts; if not, why not; if so, (a) what action and (b) what progress has been made in this regard?
 The MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND DEVELOPMENT AID:
  1. (1) The pupils staged a stay-away action.
    1. (a) 5 310.
    2. (b) Fezeka Sec. School
      I.D. Mkize Sec. School
      Gugulethu Comprehensive School
      Langa Sec. School
      Luhlaza Sec. School
      Crossroads Sec. School
      Sizamile Sec. School
    3. (c)
      1. (i) 2-4 March 1988 (3 days).
      2. (ii) On 29 February 1988 a pamphlet was distributed in the name of the so-called Joint Student Representative Council, a non-democratically elected self-appointed body without a constitution. This JSRC is a branch of the Western Cape Students’ Congress (WECSCO) which, in turn is affiliated to the National Education Crisis Committee (NECC) and the UDF.
        In the said pamphlet pupils were called upon to sympathise with late applicants whose applications for admission to secondary schools were unsuccessful by maintaining “three days of concern”. Pupils interpreted this appeal as being a call to stay away from school for three days.
        The pamphlet was intimidating, inflammatory and inciting, abounding with untruths.
  2. (2) Yes
    1. (a)
      1. (i) A counter pamphlet in which the senselessness of such stay-away actions was pointed out, was distributed in the residential areas by the Department of Education and Training.
      2. (ii) On 3 March 1988 the Regional Director issued a press statement in which pupils were urged and encouraged to attend school.
      3. (iii) Staff meetings were held with the principals and personnel of the schools concerned. Once again the pointlessness of stay-away actions was discussed.
    2. (b) On Monday, 7 March 1988, school attendance at the affected schools was virtually back to normal and since Tuesday, 8 March, the average daily attendance increased.
 Mr K M ANDREW:

Mr Speaker, arising out of the reply of the hon the Minister, may I ask him what he would advise the 1 000 or more pupils of schoolgoing age who cannot gain admission to schools to do during the course of this year?

 The MINISTER:

Mr Speaker, let me first of all point out in reply to the hon member’s question that the department went out of its way by repeated extensions of the time for registration at these schools to afford pupils a reasonable chance to enrol for this year. Secondly, the department insists on proper registration. I am sure the hon member would not send his own children to a school where there was no proper registration and where pupils were allowed to register as they pleased after the date for registration had passed and where a long period of extension had already been granted.

I should like to give the assurance that everything possible was done to enable students who really wanted to study to enrol for this year. One cannot have a proper school functioning properly while continuously allowing students to register in dribs and drabs after the closing date.

The conclusion I arrive at is that of the approximately 1 300 pupils who made late application on the very last day and of whom only one tenth were admitted, not one really want to study seriously. I say this because most of these applications were based upon falsified or obviously changed documentation in an endeavour to obtain admission to classes to which they were not entitled to be admitted.

I think it would be very useful for these pupils to spend this year earning pocket money to enable themselves to study properly next year and to enrol in time for registration.

 Mr K M ANDREW:

Mr Speaker, further arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, could he indicate to the House what job opportunities there are in the Cape Peninsula for 13 and 14 year olds who want to earn the money to which he referred? [Interjections.]

 The MINISTER:

Mr Speaker, I would like to know from the hon member if, because of the lack of job opportunities, he wants students who refuse to comply with the normal disciplinary requirements of a school to be admitted to school just to be kept there. [Interjections.]

 Mr K M ANDREW:

Mr Speaker, may I have your guidance? Is an hon member allowed to respond to a question from an hon Minister during question time?

 Mr SPEAKER:

Order! That is for the Chair to decide.

 Mr K M ANDREW:

I am asking for your guidance, Sir.

 Mr SPEAKER:

Order! I have given the hon member my guidance on the issue by telling him that that is for the Chair to decide.

 Mr K M ANDREW:

Mr Speaker, further arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply …

 Mr SPEAKER:

Order! I am sorry, but the hon member has had his opportunity. He was addressing questions to the Chair.

 Transfer of pupils at private schools to State schools *11. Mr K M ANDREW

asked the Minister of National Education:

Whether his Department has made an estimate of what the additional cost to the State would have been in the (a) 1986/87 and (b) 1987/88 financial years if all pupils at private schools had transferred to State Schools; if so, what are these estimates in each case?

 †The MINISTER OF NATIONAL EDUCATION:

Yes. If the required fixed assets are assumed to be available already, the additional cost to the State would have been the following:

  1. (a) 1986/87 : R65 404 000
  2. (b) 1987/88 : R85 511 000
 Subsidies paid to private schools *12. Mr K M ANDREW

asked the Minister of National Education:

What amount (a) was paid out in subsidies to all private schools in the Republic in the 1986/87 financial year and (b) is it estimated will be so paid out in the 1987/88 financial year?

 The MINISTER OF NATIONAL EDUCATION:

In respect of private ordinary schools registered in terms of general education policy, the following total amounts have been allocated:

  1. (a) 1986/87 : R33 088 000
  2. (b) 1987/88 : R45 340 000
 *13. Mr D J DALLING

— Justice.

[Reply standing over.]

 Bread not conforming to requirements: convictions *14. Mr R W HARDINGHAM

asked the Minister of Agriculture:

Whether any convictions were obtained in 1987 against bakeries and/or retail outlets in connection with the supply of bread not conforming to (a) quality and (b) mass requirements; if so, how many in each case?

 The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE:

(a) and (b) No, but if in a particular case, the minimum requirements for standard bread are not complied with, the Wheat Board determines an amount according to a fixed formula by which the subsidy to the person or bakery concerned is reduced.

 Certain organization: training camp for members *15. Mr P G SOAL

asked the Minister of Law and Order:

  1. (1) Whether he and/or the South African Police have been informed of (a) the existence of a training camp for members of a certain organization, the name of which has been furnished to the Police for the purpose of the Minister’s reply, and (b) the purposes to which this camp is put; if so, what is the name of this organization;
  2. (2) whether he is taking or intends taking any action against the owners or managers of this camp; if not, why not; if so, (a) what action and (b) when?
 †The DEPUTY MINISTER OF LAW AND ORDER:
  1. (1)
    1. (a) yes
    2. (b) To provide training in self-defence, physical fitness and the use of firearms.
      The name furnished by the hon member.
  2. (2) No. As far as can be ascertained, no criminal offences have up until now been committed by these persons.
    1. (a) and (b) Fall away.
 Mr P G SOAL:

Mr Speaker, arising out of the hon the Deputy Minister’s reply, if it is permissible for the AWB to engage in a training camp of this nature, will he tell us whether it is permissible for other organisations to set up similar training camps?

 The DEPUTY MINISTER:

Mr Speaker, the point in question was whether any criminal offences had been committed and I indicated that according to the police investigation there had been none.

 Mr P G SOAL:

Mr Speaker, further arising out of the hon the Deputy Minister’s reply to the first part of my question in which he was asked whether he was aware of the camp and what happened there, may I ask him whether other organisations would be allowed to operate similar camps within South Africa?

 The DEPUTY MINISTER:

Mr Speaker, if any criminal offences were committed at such a camp, the police would of course take note and act accordingly. In this case, however, there were none, and that was the point in question.

 Manager of SAA in Rome: previous positions held *16. Mr D J N MALCOMESS

asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:

With reference to his reply to Question No 18 on 8 March 1988, what positions in the travelrelated field did the current manager of the South African Airways in Rome hold prior to his appointment to his present post?

 The MINISTER OF THE BUDGET AND WELFARE (for the Minister of Transport Affairs):

December 1970 - February 1974

Assistant to Director (Finance and Operation), Grosvenor Car Hire and Touring Limited

March 1974 - February 1976

Branch Manager, Grosvenor Tours

March 1976 - February 1979

Sales Manager and Marketing Director, African Adventure Tourism

March 1979 - July 1985

International Sales Manager, Marketing Manager, Group Marketing Director (International) and Member of Board of Directors, Southern Sun Hotels.
Articles taken to detainees by relatives *17. Mr J VAN ECK

asked the Minister of Law and Order:†

  1. (1) Whether relatives of persons detained in terms of section 29(1) of the Internal Security Act, No 74 of 1982, may on their own initiative take articles, or have articles taken, to such detainees; if so, what articles; if not, (a) why not and (b) since what date has this policy been applied;
  2. (2) whether detainees may on their own initiative ask their relatives for articles that they need; if so, what articles; if not, (a) why not and (b) since what date has this policy been applied?
 †The DEPUTY MINISTER OF LAW AND ORDER:
  1. (1) No
    1. (a) Because the detention instructions, for very good reasons, do not make provision therefor.
    2. (b) Since the legislation came into effect on 2 July 1982.
  2. (2) Yes. Personal requisites.
    1. (a) and (b) Fall away.

I wish to point out to the hon member that at the time of detention, the families of detainees are informed accordingly.

Should the families be allowed to take articles to detainees on their own initiative, it will cause enormous security risks. However, all requests received from detainees and their families are considered on merit.

 Lowest altitude to which fixed-wing aircraft descended *18. Mr J VAN ECK

asked the Minister of Law and Order:

  1. (1) With reference to his reply to Question No 27 on 23 February 1988, (a) what was the lowest altitude to which the fixed-wing aircraft descended and (b) why did this aircraft descend to this altitude;
  2. (2) whether the South African Police have ascertained what the lowest legally permissible altitude is for this aircraft; if so, (a) what is this altitude and (b) what is the make of the aircraft in question;
  3. (3) whether the Police have received any complaints about this incident; if so, what complaints;
  4. (4) whether any action is being contemplated in regard to this incident; if so, what action?
 The DEPUTY MINISTER OF LAW AND ORDER:

I wish to point out that this reply is being given after consultation with my colleague, the Minister of Defence.

  1. (1)
    1. (a) To an altitude of approximately 400 foot.
    2. (b) The aircraft descended from an altitude of approximately 1 000 foot to this altitude, because of engine trouble which resulted in an engine stoppage. After the pilot had succeeded in restarting the engine, he withdrew and flew to a nearby landing-strip at a lower power level. The engine was replaced at that landing-strip on 8 February 1988. The action was bona fide. It did not pose a threat to the safety of the mourners and was also not intended to harass them.
  2. (2) Yes.
    1. (a) 1 000 foot for ordinary civil aviation. However, in terms of Regulation 3.2(1) of the Rules of the Air, Air Traffic Services, Search and Rescue and Overflight Regulations of 1975, the Director of Civil Aviation gave individual permission to the South African Police and the South African Air Force to operate aircraft at altitudes which they find necessary in order to protect life and property. Furthermore, the pilot was busy with the emergency procedure referred to in paragraph (1)(b). The standard minimum flight altitude of 1 000 foot was therefore not applicable.
    2. (b) Aeritalia AM-3C.
  3. (3) No, not as far as can be ascertained.
  4. (4) No.
 Open areas: franchise arrangements at local level *19. Mr C W EGLIN

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

  1. (1) Whether an investigation is taking place into franchise arrangements at local level for members of all population groups living in open areas; if not, why not; if so, (a) by whom or what body is this investigation being carried out, (b) what stage has the investigation reached and (c) when will it be completed;
  2. (2) whether the draft legislation dealing with this matter will be tabled in Parliament during the current session; if not, (a) why not and (b) when is it anticipated that it will be so tabled?
 †The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL PLANNING:
  1. (1)
    1. (a) The Department of Development Planning is in the process of considering the constitutional implications of franchise arrangements at local level in open areas as envisaged in the State President’s speech in the House of Assembly on 5 October 1987.
    2. (b) and (c)
      The investigation has reached an advanced stage and will be completed shortly.
  2. (2) Yes.
    1. (a) and (b) Fall away.
 Mr K M ANDREW:

Mr Speaker, arising from the hon the Deputy Minister’s reply, may I ask him whether decisions have been made in respect of these local authority elections as to how voters’ rolls are going to be compiled in areas like Khayelitsha and Crossroads where one has large numbers of squatters?

 †The DEPUTY MINISTER:

Mr Speaker, the hon member’s question falls outside the general area that deals with franchise arrangements in open areas and thus it is not relevant at the moment.

 †Dr W J SNYMAN:

Mr Speaker, arising from the hon the Minister’s reply, does he expect that the investigation that is being done — the report of which will be tabled — will be completed before the general municipal elections in October?

 †The DEPUTY MINISTER:

Mr Speaker, the question was whether the draft legislation on this matter would be tabled in Parliament during the present session. I replied affirmatively to that. I think that answers the hon member’s question.

 Mr C W EGLIN:

Mr Speaker, further arising out of the answer and also the question asked, does the hon the Deputy Minister anticipate that this legislation which is going to be placed before Parliament this session will make provision for these people to participate in the municipal election of this year?

 †The DEPUTY MINISTER:

Mr Speaker, I shall repeat the words of the question because that is how the question was formulated. It says that there is an investigation in progress at the moment; and that implies all final decisions have not yet necessarily been taken. An investigation is in progress. The second part of the question is whether legislation will be submitted during this session and the reply to that is “yes”. One cannot say at the moment precisely what the content of this legislation is because the investigation is still in progress.

 Repealing/replacement of Reservation of Separate Amenities Act *20. Mr C W EGLIN

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

  1. (1) Whether an investigation is taking place with a view either to (a) repealing the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act, No 49 of 1953, or (b) replacing the said Act with other legislation which will be applied on a non-discriminatory basis; if not, why not; if so, (i) by whom or what body is this investigation being carried out and (ii) (aa) what stage has the investigation reached, and (bb) when will it be completed, in each case;
  2. (2) whether the draft legislation dealing with this matter will be tabled in Parliament during the current session; if not, (a) why not and (b) when is it anticipated that it will be so tabled?
 The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL PLANNING:
  1. (1) (a) and (b) yes
    1. (i) and (ii) (aa) and (bb)
      As the Administrators are responsible for the application of this Act, I requested them to advise me on the recommendations of the President’s Council in this regard. The matter is still under consideration.
  2. (2) At this stage, no indication can be given when the matter will be finalised.
 Amendment of Group Areas Act: open residential areas/adequate agricultural land *21. Mr C W EGLIN

asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:

  1. (1) Whether an investigation is taking place with a view to amending the Group Areas Act, No 36 of 1966, to make provision for (a) open residential areas where members of all population groups may reside and (b) adequate agricultural land being made available to members of all population groups; if not, why not; if so, (i) by whom or what body is this investigation being carried out and (ii) (aa) what stage has the investigation reached, and (bb) when will it be completed in each case;
  2. (2) whether the draft legislation dealing with these matters will be tabled in Parliament during the current session; if not, (a) why not and (b) when is it anticipated that it will be so tabled?
 †The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CONSTITUTIONAL PLANNING:
  1. (1)
    1. (a) The Department of Development Planning is in the process of considering the necessary amendments to legislation which is needed to implement the policy announcements of the State President in the House of Assembly on 5 October 1987.
    2. (b) The investigation is at an advanced stage and will be completed shortly.
  2. (2) Yes.
    1. (a) and (b) fall away.
 Affidavit blocking access to certain documents *22. Mr J B DE R VAN GEND

asked the Minister of Law and Order:

  1. (1) Whether he or his Deputy Minister issued an affidavit in terms of section 66 of the Internal Security Act, No 74 of 1982, in the cases of Mzamka and others versus the Minister of Law and Order and the Methodist Church in Africa versus the Minister of Law and Order blocking access to certain documents; if so, why;
  2. (2) whether he will furnish information on the documents in question; if not, why not; if so, what is the nature of the information contained in these documents?
 The DEPUTY MINISTER OF LAW AND ORDER:
  1. (1) Yes, both the Deputy Minister of Law and Order and I issued such affidavits. In our judgment, disclosure of the contents of the said documents would have been to the detriment of the safety of the State
  2. (2) No. For the same reasons mentioned in our affidavits and which I have just quoted.
 Mr J B DE R VAN GEND:

Mr Speaker, arising from the reply of the hon the Deputy Minister, may I ask him whether it has been established whether the documents in respect of which the affidavit was issued contained any information which could relate to the circumstances which are at issue in the trial referred to in the question?

 The DEPUTY MINISTER:

Mr Speaker, I think the point is that in terms of section 66 of the Internal Security Act, both the hon the Minister and I applied our minds to whether this information should be put before the court as public evidence. In both cases the decision was that it would not be appropriate to do so.

 Mr J B DE R VAN GEND:

Mr Speaker, further arising from the reply of the hon the Deputy Minister, may I point out that I understand the reason for issuing the affidavit. I am merely interested to know, not whether the information is in the opinion of the hon the Minister covered by the affidavit but whether the documents contain information which is relevant to the issues in these trials.

 The DEPUTY MINISTER:

Mr Speaker, I do not think I can reply to that question on behalf of the hon the Minister. If the hon member would like to put such a question to the hon the Minister, he may do so. As far as my own affidavit is concerned, I wish to say that I do not think it is really relevant as far as the court proceedings are concerned.

 East London: Buffel/military vehicle accident *23. Prof N J J OLIVIER

asked the Minister of Defence:

  1. (1) Whether a Buffel or any other military vehicle was involved in an accident in or near East London on or about 8 March 1988; if so,
  2. (2) whether any (a) members of the South African Defence Force and (b) other persons were killed or injured in this accident; if so, what are the relevant details;
  3. (3) whether a board of inquiry has been convened in regard to this incident; if not, why not; if so, (a) who is the chairman of the board and (b) when is it anticipated that the investigation into the matter will be completed?
 †The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE:
  1. (1) Yes
  2. (2)
    1. (a) Yes, one member was killed and nine injured.
    2. (b) No.
  3. (3) Yes
    1. (a) A senior officer of the Permanent Force.
    2. (b) Towards the end of March 1988.
 *24. Prof N J J OLIVIER

— Foreign Affairs.

[Withdrawn.]

 *25. Prof N J J OLIVIER

— Defence.

[Withdrawn.]

 Black persons of school-going age *26. Mr R M BURROWS

asked the Minister of Education and Development Aid:

Whether, with reference to his reply to Question No 226 on 27 July 1987, his Department has as yet made a calculation of the number of Black persons of school-going age in the Republic who are not attending school at present; if not, why not; if so, (a) what is the total number involved, (b) on what basis was the calculation made and (c) in respect of what date is this informatin furnished?

 The MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND DEVELOPMENT AID:

Yes, this includes the statistics for the self-governing States.

  1. (a) 1 051 189
  2. (b) School-going age is taken as 7-16 years.
    1. Sources: (i) Mid-year estimates by the Central Statistical Service based on the 1985-census and adjusted according to HSRC guidelines to compensate for under-enumeration
    2. (ii) Departmental figures.
  3. (c) March 1987.
 Mr R M BURROWS:

Mr Speaker, arising from the reply of the hon the Minister, can he give us an indication as to whether his department is aiming at making provision for these children who are not at school in his planning programme?

 The MINISTER:

Yes, Mr Speaker. The answer to that is very positive and affirmative. In fact, when one peruses the estimates over the past three years, one finds that there has been a decrease in the percentage of the estimated population of children of schoolgoing age not at school from 24,5% to 21% this year. The planning of the department provides for a continuous increase in the percentage of these children who are actually at school, so as to achieve as nearly as possible 100% school attendance as soon as is physically possible.

Own Affairs:

Private schools: subsidies *1. Mr K M ANDREW

asked the Minister of Education and Culture:

  1. (1) Whether, in 1987, any private schools registered with his Departmented or any provincial education departments did not apply for any subsidy for which such schools may have been eligible; if so, how many;
  2. (2) how many private schools that applied for subsidies of 45 per cent did not receive any subsidy in that year?
 †The MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE:
  1. (1) Yes,
    Cape: 11
    Natal: 6
    OFS: 0
    Transvaal: 11;
  2. (2) schools apply for a financial grant and not for a particular percentage category. The number of schools which applied but were not awarded such grants, is as follows:
    Cape: 1
    Natal: 0
    OFS: 0
    Transvaal: 5
 Private schools: subsidies *2. Mr K M ANDREW

asked the Minister of Education and Culture:

(a) How many private schools applied for a 15 per cent subsidy in 1987 and (b) how many of these schools received (i) a subsidy of 15 per cent and (ii) no subsidy?

 The MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE:
  1. (a) Schools apply for a financial grant and not for a particular percentage category;
  2. (b)
    1. (i)
      Cape: 9
      Natal: 0
      OFS: 0
      Transvaal: 57
    2. (ii)
      Cape: 1
      Natal: 0
      OFS: 0
      Transvaal: 5
 Ministerial Representatives: members of provincial education councils *3. Mr R M BURROWS

asked the Minister of Education and Culture:

  1. (1) Whether he or his Department has attempted to have Ministerial Representatives become members of the provincial education councils; if so, (a) why and (b) when;
  2. (2) whether any Ministerial Representatives have attended any meetings of the provincial education councils; if so, (a) in what capacity and (b) which meetings did they attend;
  3. (3) whether any Ministerial Representatives were excluded from those meetings of the provincial education councils from which non-members of such councils were excluded; if not, why not;
  4. (4) whether any Ministerial Representatives have taken any steps which impinge on the activities of the provincial education departments; if so, (a) what steps and (b) on what dates;
  5. (5) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
 †The MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE:
  1. (1) No,
    1. (a) and (b) fall away;
  2. (2) yes,
    1. (a) as observers,
    2. (b)
      Cape: 24 August 1987, 26 October 1987
      Natal: 26 August 1987 , 27 October 1987, 26 February 1988
      OFS: 20 August 1987 , 27 October 1987, 26 February 1988
      Transvaal: 31 August 1987, 26 October 1987, 25 February 1988
  3. (3) No, in terms of section 5(7)(a) of the National Education Policy Act, No 39 of 1967, each provincial education council determines its own rules and procedures regarding their meetings:
  4. (4) no,
    1. (a) and (b) fall away;
  5. (5) No.
 Private schools: subsidies *4. Mr K M ANDREW

asked the Minister of Education and Culture:

How many private schools which applied for subsidies of 45 per cent in 1987 received a subsidy of (a) 45 and (b) 15 per cent?

 The MINISTER OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE:

Schools apply for a financial grant and not for a particular percentage category;

  1. (a) the number of schools that received a 45% grant is:
    Cape: 29
  2. Natal: 37
    OFS: 4
    Transvaal: 34
  3. (b) the number of schools that received a 15% grant is:
    Cape: 9
    Natal: 0
    OFS: 0
    Transvaal: 57.

For written reply:

General Affairs:

Advertising expenditure: income tax deduction 8. Mr F J LE ROUX

asked the Minister of Finance:†

Whether (a) private individuals, (b) (i) public and (ii) private companies and (c) close corporations receive any rebate for income tax purposes in respect of expenditure on advertising for their businesses and/or products; if so, what is the formula for the rebate in each case?

 The MINISTER OF FINANCE:

(a), (b) & (c)

Any advertising expenditure actually incurred in the Republic in the production of income is allowable as a deduction as a normal business expense in the determination of taxable income, provided such expenditure is not of a capital nature.

This rule applies irrespective of whether the expenditure is incurred by individuals, public companies, private companies or close corporations.

 General sales tax: reduction/changes 295. Mr H H SCHWARZ

asked the Minister of Finance:

Whether he intends (a) reducing and (b) effecting any other changes to general sales tax; if not, why not; if so, (i) what (aa) reductions and (bb) changes and (ii) when?

 The MINISTER OF FINANCE:

(a) & (b)

During his address at the opening of the 1988 Session of Parliament the State President announced that the Government had accepted the Margo Commission’s alternative recommendation that sales tax be replaced by an invoice-based value-added tax.

Draft legislation providing for the introduction of VAT will be prepared and published for information and comment during the second half of this year and presented to Parliament in its final form early in 1989.

It may, nevertheless, be necessary to propose certain technical amendments in the customary Sales Tax Amendment Bill which will be introduced later this year.

As the rate is a budgetary matter, I will deal with it in my Main Budget.

(i) & (ii) Fall away.

 Overseas visits 574. Mr P G SOAL

asked the Minister of Public Works and Land Affairs:

  1. (1) Whether he or the Deputy Minister of Land Affairs undertook any overseas visits in 1987; if so, (a) which countries were visited and (b) what was the purpose of each visit;
  2. (2) whether he or his Deputy Minister was accompanied by any representatives of the media on these visits; if so, (a) what were the names of the journalists involved, (b) which newspapers or radio or television networks did they represent,(c) to which countries did each of these persons accompany him or his Deputy Minister and (d) why;
  3. (3) whether any costs were incurred by his Department as a result, if so, what total amount in that year?
 The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS AND LAND AFFAIRS:
  1. (1) Yes. I undertook an overseas visit but not the Deputy Minister of Land Affairs.
    1. (a) Spain
    2. (b) Private
  2. (2) No
    1. (a) Falls away.
    2. (b) Falls away.
    3. (c) Falls away.
    4. (d) Falls away.
  3. (3) No.
 Christmas cards sent out 605. Mr P G SOAL

asked the Minister of Defence:

  1. (1) Whether (a) he and/or (b) the South African Defence Force sent out Christmas cards in 1987; if so, (i) what total number of cards was printed, (ii) to whom were they sent, (iii) what was the total cost of producing and distributing these cards, and (iv) who was responsible for printing them, in each case;
  2. (2) whether postage stamps were used to send out these Christmas cards; if not, how were they distributed?
 The MINISTER OF DEFENCE:
  1. (1)
    1. (a) Yes
      1. (i) No Christmas cards were printed in 1987.
      2. (ii) Ministers and Deputy Ministers: 45
        Members of Parliament: 232 President’s Council members: 58 Board and Management of Armscor: 24
        General officers: 49
        Local ambassadors and attachés: 15
        Ambassadors and attachés in foreign countries: 15
        Local friends and family: 177
      3. (iii) In 1986 the printing cost per card was 12 cents, but it is not possible to determine the hidden costs of manpower and other materials.
      4. (iv) Armscor
    2. (b) yes
      1. (i), (ii), (iii) and (iv) Christmas cards are sent out by the SA Defence Force on a decentralised basis by some Headquarters, Formations, Commands and Units. To obtain this information will be too time-consuming and expensive.
  2. (2) Minister No. The Christmas cards were distributed against Government cost in terms of paragraph 8.1.3 of the Guidelines for Ministers.
    SA Defence Force. Christmas cards are sent out on a decentralised basis by some Headquarters, Formations and Units. To obtain this information will be too timeconsuming and expensive.
 Professional standing defence force: estimated cost 620. Prof N J J OLIVIER

asked the Minister of Defence:

Whether an estimate has been made of the cost of establishing a professional standing defence force to replace, over a period of time, the present system of military conscription; if not, why not; if so, (a) what is this estimate and (b) in which year was it made?

 The MINISTER OF DEFENCE:

Yes.

  1. (a) RM 2 415 for direct personnel expenses (salaries and allowances) only which, in 1984 Rand values, would have been 117% higher than the existing system in the same year.
  2. (b) 1984/85 financial year.
 Permanent Force: applications to join 621. Prof N J J OLIVIER

asked the Minister of Defence:

How many Black, White, Coloured and Indian persons, respectively, (a) applied to join, and (b) were accepted into, the Permanent Force as members of the South African (i) Army, (ii) Air Force, (iii) Navy and (iv) Medical Services in 1987 or the latest specified year for which information is available?

 The MINISTER OF DEFENCE:

1 January 1987 until 31 December 1987

(a)

(b)

(i)

White

5 520

2 092

Coloured

460

122

Indian

31

18

Black

2 260

2 232

(ii)

White

5 787

1 530

Coloured

191

27

Indian

102

6

Black

95

6

(iii)

White

815

413

Coloured

198

179

Indian

60

44

Black

1

1

(iv)

White

1 342

759

Coloured

33

18

Indian

5

0

Black

1

1
Inter-city luxury coach services: privatization 659. Mr P G SOAL

asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:

Whether any steps have been taken to privatize the inter-city luxury coach services of the South African Transport Services; if not, (a) why not and (b) when is it anticipated that steps will be taken in this regard; if so, what steps?

 The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AFFAIRS:

Yes.

The Honourable Member’s attention is directed to my Budget Speech on 24 February 1988 when I indicated that it is the intention to include all bus passenger services in the privatisation action and that I gave instructions that these services be developed as a separate business unit with a view to privatisation. This action is presently under way.

 Travel bureaux: profits/losses 661. Mr P G SOAL

asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:

What (a) were the (i) profits or (ii) losses incurred in respect of the (aa) London, (bb) Frankfort and (cc) New York South African Transport Services travel bureaux for each of the latest specified three financial years for which information is available and (b) is the projected (i) profit or (ii) loss in respect of each of these bureaux for the current financial year?

 The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AFFAIRS:

(a) (i)

(aa)

(bb)

(cc)

1984/85

R19 100

R23 100

R17 800

1985/86

R20 000

R 5 000

—

1986/87

R50 900

R10 000

R28 400

(ii)

1985/86

—

—

R15 000

(b) (i)

R100 000

R40 000

R30 000

(ii)

Falls away.

SAA flight 295: air hostesses able to speak Japanese/Mandarin 663. Mr D J N MALCOMESS

asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:

  1. (1) Whether any air hostesses on SAA flight 295 on 28 November 1987 could speak (a) Japanese and/or (b) Mandarin; if so, how many; if not, what languages could they speak;
  2. (2) whether any air hostesses on aircraft used on the Far East service speak either of these languages; if so, how many; if not, why not?
 The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AFFAIRS:
  1. (1) (a) and (b) No. They were able to converse in English, Afrikaans, German, Portuguese and Italian.
  2. (2) Yes. Two.
 Pension funds: shortages 674. Mr J J S PRINSLOO

asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:†

  1. (1) Whether there are any shortages in the pension funds of the South African Transport Services at present; if so, (a) in which pension funds, (b) (i) what do these shortages amount to and (ii) in respect of what date is this information furnished and (c) what did these shortages amount to on the corresponding date (i) 12, (ii) 24 and (iii) 36 calendar months ago;
  2. (2) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
 The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AFFAIRS:
  1. (1)
    1. (a) and (b) Actuaries in the private sector are presently in the process of evaluating the pension funds of South African Transport Services and it is expected that their report will be completed by the end of 1988.
    2. (c) Not available.
  2. (2) No.
 Military service: White doctors posted to hospitals 675. Mr H J COETZEE

asked the Minister of Defence:

  1. (1) What percentage of qualified White doctors called up for military service is posted to hospitals (a) for Whites, (b) for Blacks, (c) administered by the South African Defence Force, (d) in the four independent Black states and (e) in the self-governing territories;
  2. (2) (a) where are such doctors sent for their basic training and (b) what is the duration of this training?
 The MINISTER OF DEFENCE:
  1. (1) As on 8 March 1988
    1. (a) 1,25%
    2. (b) 2,52%
    3. (c) 51,3%
    4. (d) 0,63%
    5. (e) 0,31%
      NOTE: The remainder of the doctors (43,99%) are employed in sickbays, military medical clinics and for the training of medical orderlies.
  2. (2)
    1. (a) SA Medical Service Training Centre near Potchefstroom
    2. (b) 16 weeks.
 Botshabelo: bus boycotts 677. Mrs H SUZMAN

asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:

(a) How many bus boycotts were there in Botshabelo in 1987 and 1988, (b) on what dates did they occur and (c) what was the (i) duration and (ii) cause of each such boycott?

 The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AFFAIRS:
  1. (a) 1 in 1988.
  2. (b) From 1 to 4 January 1988.
  3. (c)
    1. (i) 4 days.
    2. (ii) An increase in bus fares.
 Five most junior posts: salary scales 709. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:

(a) What are the salary scales attached to each of the five most junior posts in the South African Transport Services, (b) how many of these posts are filled by Whites, Coloureds, Indians and Blacks, respectively, and (c) in respect of what date is this information furnished?

 The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT AFFAIRS:
  1. (a)
    1. (1) R4 530 - 4 770 - 5 010 - 5 250 annually
    2. (2) R4 530 - 4 770 - 5 010 - 5 250 - 5 490 annually
    3. (3) R4 560 - 4 830 - 5 040 - 5 280 - 5 520 annually
    4. (4) R4 770 - 5 010 - 5 250 - 5 490 - 5 820 annually
    5. (5) R4 830 - 5 040 - 5 280 - 5 520 - 5 850 annually

(b)

Whites

Coloureds

Indians

Blacks

(1)

3

10 359

248

60 657

(2)

Nil

291

37

1 155

(3)

Nil

Nil

Nil

16

(4)

Nil

337

30

1 985

(5)

Nil

18

Nil

103

(c) 1 March 1988
Control boards: functions 716. Mr C J DERBY-LEWIS

asked the Minister of Agriculture:

What are the functions of each of the control boards falling under his Department?

 The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE:

The functions of the control boards are set out in the Proclamations and Government Notices as indicated below:

Banana

Proclamation R. 109 of

Board:

1976, as amended.

Canning Fruit

Government Notice

Board:

R.2068 of 25 September 1987.

Chicory

Proclamation R.155 of

Board:

1978, as amended.

Citrus Board:

Proclamation R.2 of 1979, as amended.

Cotton Board:

Proclamation R.37 of 1974, as amended.

Dairy Board:

Proclamation R.290 of 1978, as amended.

Deciduous

Proclamation R.220 of

Fruit Board:

1979, as amended.

Dried Fruit

Proclamation R.302 of

Board:

1962, as amended.

Dry Bean

Government Notice R.370

Board:

of 27 February 1988.

Egg Board:

Proclamation R.64 of 1963, as amended.

Grain Sorghum Board:

Government Notice R.190 of 31 January 1986.

Lucerne Seed Control Board:

Proclamation R.30 of 1963, as amended.

Maize Board:

Proclamation R.45 of 1979, as amended.

Meat Board:

Mohair

Proclamation R.200 of 1964, as amended.

Board:

Proclamation R.281 of 1971, as amended.

Oil Seeds

Proclamation R.73 of

Board:

1982, as amended.

Potato Board:

Proclamation R.268 of 1970, as amended.

Rooibos Tea Control Board:

Proclamation R.167 of 1962, as amended.

Tobacco

Proclamation R.159 of

Board:

1971, as amended.

Wheat Board:

Proclamation R.162 of 1974, as amended.

Wool Board:

Proclamation R.155 of 1972, as amended.

The manner in which the powers, functions and duties vested in the control boards mentioned above are exercised, performed and carried out, is set out in the annual reports of these boards which are tabled each year in Parliament.

 Booklet: The Dismantling of Apartheid 793. Mr P G SOAL

asked the Deputy Minister of Information:

  1. (1) Whether the Bureau for Information was responsible for the compilation and/or distribution of a booklet entitled “The Dismantling of Apartheid”; if not, who is responsible for this booklet; if so, (a) why, (b) what was the nature of its involvement, (c) how many pages does the booklet comprise, (d) how many (i) English and (ii) Afrikaans copies of the booklet were produced, (e) to whom were copies of the booklet sent and (f) what was the total cost of producing, printing and distributing the booklet;
  2. (2) whether the views propagated in this publication reflect the views of the Government; if not, in what way do they differ;
  3. (3) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
 The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INFORMATION:
  1. (1) No. The booklet was published by the author.
    The Bureau purchased 50 000 copies which it has distributed.
    1. (a) The publication contains a useful chronicle of reform measures.
    2. (b) The Bureau’s involvement was limited to the purchase and distribution of copies of the publication.
    3. (c) 26 pages.
    4. (d) (i) and (ii) 50 000 English copies were purchased.
    5. (e) Copies were sent to contacts of the Bureau on a selective basis.
    6. (f) The publications were purchased at a price of 94 cents per copy. Cost of distribution is difficult to determine as railway costs incurred to transport copies to Regional Offices are not available as yet and because Regional Offices supplied copies free of charge on request and also during contact visits.
  2. (2) The booklet is a chronicle of reform measures. Views, if any, propagated are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of the Government.
  3. (3) No.