Mr. Chairman, I want to agree with the hon. member for Edenvale on one small point. He referred to the report of the Department of Bantu Education and I want to agree with him that it is a very thorough and comprehensive report and that it was compiled systematically. I think everyone in the House will express his sincere gratitude towards the Secretary of Bantu Education and his department for this report. Something which some people lose sight of, and which is surely of importance, is the fact that the Department of Bantu Education is a completely autonomous department, a department on its own.

Last night we listened to a repetition of the objections to the whole idea of Bantu education. Bantu education is not supposed to have its own department but should be integrated with, say, the Department of National Education. I examined the opinions of various speakers and writers in this connection. I want to refer to the message published by the “Ministers’ fraternal of Langa, Nyanga and Guguletu” in which reference is made, amongst others, to “the detested Bantu education system which continues with inadequate adaptations”. In the same vein, Dr. Manas Buthelezi—this is not the man from KwaZulu, but the man from Soweto—expressed his opinion on Bantu education, and said—

In other words, his attitude is that Bantu education is unacceptable. In this connection I should like to point out a few things and quote a few authorities myself. I suppose hon. members are perfectly within their rights to hold a certain view of Bantu education as a separate department. There have, however, been numerous important findings in favour of the idea of a separate department for Bantu education. I want to associate myself unhesitatingly with a report by Unesco, a report which has already been referred to in this House on numerous occasions. This report was published in 1961 as a result of the Addis Ababa conference in 1961. I quote—

It continues—

I also want to refer to a pronouncement by Chief Minister Mangope last year. He said—

That is a man of South Africa, a man who is concerned with Bantu education. That is his point of view in this connection.

I want to refer to a pronouncement by Prof. Kgware. If I am not mistaken, when the name of Prof. Kgware was mentioned here last night as an authority in the field of education, a groan was heard from the other side of the House. It may be that I interpreted the groan wrongly. Perhaps it was only an hon. member who did not feel well! What does Prof. Kgware say? I quote—

He continues—

When asked what his attitude would be towards multinational education, Prof. Kgware said, according to this report—

The report continues—

This is another Black leader in South Africa.

For interest’s sake I now also want to quote from a document, a memorandum, which was published in Canada. It is called “A Statement of the Indian Philosophy of Education”. I have referred to it before. I quote from it—

The report continues as follows—

It continues to state—

I can quote many other passages to this effect, but I do not have the time to quote it at greater length. The point which I should like to make in this respect, is that if people object to the idea of Bantu education as such, they come up against a wall of thought which opposes them.

The question of the standard and the quality of education for Blacks is often brought up in discussions. Derisive remarks about it are often heard, from Whites as well as Blacks. I want to state here and now that basically, the Department of Bantu Education is pursuing the same objectives as any other department of education, i.e. to make the best use of the potential of the children entrusted to them and to equip them for their task in life and to make them useful members of their own communities. These are the basic objectives of Bantu education, too. There have been misgivings, and misgivings are still being spread. The misgivings were spread even before the establishment of the department. The curricula were published as long ago as 1954 and comment on them was invited. Most of the comment made about them, was negative and destructive. It might be of interest to the hon. member for Parktown—he is not in the House today—that the Institute for Race Relations appointed a panel of independent experts which analysed the curricula. What were their findings? The findings of the authorities appeared in the The Star and read more or less as follows—

Those were the findings of people who are normally not friends of the Government. But the critics simply ignored these findings. I want to stress that the syllabuses apply up to and including the junior certificate. The Department of Bantu Education has never had its own syllabuses and examinations for the senior certificate. If there is criticism, people should take note of that. The schools have always had the choice to enrol for the matriculation examination of either the Joint Matriculation Board or the Department of National Education. That has always been the policy. In 1976 a drastic change took place. It was decided at that time to co-ordinate education in the Republic in respect of content and standard because the tendency existed to play off the one department against the other.

Inter-departmental committees were appointed to compile core syllabuses for all subjects and these would then serve as the minimum requirement for all education departments. The Department of Bantu Education was a party to this arrangement. The arrangement with regard to the matriculation examination remained unchanged, however, i.e. either the examination of the Joint Matriculation Board or the examination of the Department of National Education could be written. The Joint Matriculation Board watches over the standard of the matriculation examination in any case. That is a fact which we must take into account.

A very important aspect is that the success of the department in respect of its objectives, is linked with the quality and the equipment of its teaching staff. That is very important. I think hon. members on that side of the House also stressed this aspect. This again depends on the point of view and the feeling with which one considers that fact. It reminds me of a line which somebody once wrote: “Two men looked out through prison bars; the one saw mud, the other stars.” On the one hand we have very great appreciation for the work done by the teachers, because they work in difficult circumstances, and we must take this fully into account when we judge Bantu education. I gained the impression that the hon. member for Edenvale did not do justice last night to the work done by the teachers with their often inadequate equipment. Please let us today express our appreciation unanimously for what these people do in the interests of the schooling and the education of their own people. The fact remains, however, that many of them do not possess all the qualifications necessary for the task which they have to carry out. This is especially the case with regard to the secondary schools. Unfortunately it is true that 96% of the teachers only have Std. 8 plus a teaching diploma. When one is talking about the standard of work and the equipment of teachers, one has to take into account that the classes are too big in all cases. In the secondary field the average is nearly 32 pupils per teacher, but overall the number is much higher, in spite of the fact that we have already lowered it. However, I shall return to that later. These are things which we have to take into account when we talk about standards.

When one takes these things into account it is fortunately true that large-scale programmes for in-service training of teachers are in existence. These is for instance such a centre at Mamelodi. R74 000 is voted for this training. An hon. member spoke about this rather sneeringly, but the fact of the matter is that this scheme, i.e. in-service training for teachers, is something with regard to which the Department of Bantu Education was ahead of the other departments by five years—I say this in all friendliness towards the hon. the Minister of National Education. It is therefore an achievement. At the Mamelodi centre 54 courses for 1 414 teachers and inspectors were offered. That proves what is being done.

I want to point out further that the financial incentive to study schools subjects at degree level through Unisa is being planned. Furthermore, facilities at centres for adults will be utilized, together with special education panels to improve the academic qualifications of Black teachers. I want to point out that 200 people have enrolled at the centre in the Cape Peninsula. That is an indication of progress which is being made, increasing progress.

The conditions of service of teachers with regard to pensions, leave benefits and so forth, have already been put on a par with those of Whites. It must also be noted that the recent statement by the Minister of National Education in connection with the improved salary structure for teachers, when the economic position of the country allows it, would of course also be applicable to Black teachers. That is something of which note should be taken.

I also want to point out that the pupil/teacher ratio has improved considerably. A year or two ago it was still 59 pupils per teacher. That has already been reduced to 49 pupils per teacher. If we take into account that the same teacher takes two classes in the double session scheme, it means for all practical purposes a ratio of 43 pupils per teacher.

I want to point out a striking phenomenon. A remarkable shift of pupils enrolling in the higher classes is taking place. That means that more pupils are now reaching the higher standards. Although the total enrolment increased by 107 000—I am talking about all the schools now—in comparison with 1975 there was a decrease of 2,8% or of 19 Oil in the number of pupils who came to school for the first time, i.e. in sub A. That could indicate that the backlog is actually being eliminated if it has not already been eliminated. There is also a slackening in the increase in the number of pupils in the other classes in the primary schools. I should like to quote the relevant figures. In sub B the increase was only 3,9%; in Std. 1 it was 2,7%; in Std. 2, 3,7%; in Std. 3, 4,2%; in Std. 4, 5,2% and in Std. 5, 25,3%. It may be interesting to note that the number of pupils from sub A to Std. 5 in White areas totals 2 898 754. That is 4,1% more than in 1975, and 43,6% of this number are pupils who fall under the Department of Bantu Education and 56,4% under the educational departments of the homelands.

I should also like to point out that there has been a tremendous increase, especially on the secondary level, and in this regard I refer to the increase of 54% from 1975 to 1976. The number of secondary schools has increased by 154—of which 150 in the homelands and four in White areas. The total for 1976 is 841 secondary schools. The number of pupils in the secondary schools is 389 000, 60% in the homelands and 40% in White areas. I should also like to point out that in 1976, 1 700 more trainee teachers were accepted for training than in 1975. I am referring to page 61 of the report. I might also add that there are nine training schools for teachers in Transkei—we no longer have a say over them, but I only mention it in passing. In the homelands there are 28 and in the White areas, seven. That gives us a total of 35 in the Republic of South Africa. There are 15 000 trainee teachers; more than 8 000 are first year students, less than 7 000 are second year students and 81 are in the specialist class.

I should also like to touch on another matter which is often discussed in these times, and that is the question of free and compulsory education. I differentiate between “free” and “compulsory” education. It has recently been used as a battle cry, and especially, I think, as propaganda against the Department of Bantu Education. Allow me to stress that there is already free education. It already exists. The education of a Black child is already free education. I say this because no pupil in the present dispensation pays for his education. No pupil can be barred from school because he has not paid certain fees. No tutorial fees are prescribed. He does not pay for his education. Where, then, does the confusion arise, may I ask?

I think the confusion lies in the fact that there are also things like school funds and other school requisites to which children do still contribute. I should like to point out, however, that the department has issued regulations in connection with the collecting, spending and administration of school funds. Four principles apply here. The first is that the contribution to school funds is voluntary, except in the case of post-primary schools where school boards can make it compulsory, but on condition that the maximum amounts are laid down by regulation, with the specific aim of protecting parents against possible exploitation. The maximum in the primary schools is thus Rl,20 per annum and in the secondary schools it is R4 per annum. The approval of the Secretary of Bantu Education is necessary to exceed these amounts, but so far it has not yet been necessary for him to give such approval. It has never been necessary.

Moneys can also be collected for other purposes, but people should not confuse this with non-free education. It can be collected for sport, and also for certain subjects, but this can only happen with the prior permission of the parents, the school board and the regional director. In other words, children who are not able to make contributions, cannot simply be forced to do so. It is also important that a meeting of parents is held every year in February so that an account can be given of collection and spending and in this way the parents have a say in this matter. In any case, school funds are not an unusual phenomenon. All other schools are familiar with them.

There is also another minor matter, something which is perhaps not so important. Often, however, it is the less important matters which are grasped at and blown up out of proportion. I am referring here to the question of school uniforms. Some schools require them. The reproach is levelled that it is a form of discrimination. It is however a generally accepted practice and, in point of fact, a method of avoiding discrimination between well-off children and poor children—let us not think that there is no such difference. The department also warned against exploitation, in cases where pupils were not admitted because they did not have the prescribed school uniform. In this way the department watches over the interests of the child and of his parents. Now it is very strange that critics claim that it is only for Blacks that a school uniform is prescribed and this goes hand in hand with the suggestion that the onus is really on the department to supply school uniforms to these people.

The other matter at issue here is the question of school requisites. It is true that parents pay for some school requisites. This is a system which the department inherited from its predecessors. In other words, even that dispensation which is extolled by some people as the ideal movement in respect of which Dr. Verwoerd supposedly sinned so grievously—I shall return to the reference made by the hon. member for Edenvale in this regard later in the afternoon—is actually held against us. In those days they also had to pay for school requisites. The department is however continually trying to ease the burden on parents. Right from the start, reading books in the three languages are supplied to all pupils in primary schools. A limited number of textbooks were bought and supplied to schools—I am speaking of the past now. During 1974 a fixed programme was accepted in terms of which text books are supplied to schools.

One may now ask: What is the position in 1977? Surely it is important to know that. If the department does anything good, why should we not mention it if it is worthwhile? In forms III, IV and V, all text books are supplied to all pupils in schools which fall under the Department of Bantu Education, if principals send in a requisition correctly and in time.

Yes.

The hon. member could have inspired them to do it. In respect of forms I and II, 75% of the books have already been supplied. In respect of Stds. 3 to 5, 50% of the books have already been supplied. Std. 1 is being supplied with the necessary textbooks in mathematics this year. The ideal is to cover the whole field at the beginning of 1978. After that the process of replacing books will start.

I wonder whether I should weary hon. members with the amounts spent on textbooks as long ago as 1974, i.e. three years ago; for Stds. 1 and 2, R390 000 in round figures; for Stds. 3 and 4, R1 391 000; for Std. 5, R720 000; for form I, R532 000; for form II, R376 000; for form III, R515 000; and for forms IV and V, R343 000. If one takes into consideration the small number of pupils at the secondary level, this is a considerable amount. It has not yet been possible to supply prescribed books and stationery. We hope to be able to do that in the future.

May I say a word or two about compulsory education. That is another matter which has come to our attention with even greater urgency since last year. The hon. Minister has said on several occasions that compulsory education has been accepted as the ideal in respect of Black pupils as well. I think, however, every sober member in this House and also the public at large will realize that this is not a scheme which can be implemented overnight. We pointed that out last year too, and said that certain preparatory steps were necessary. The first is the elimination of double sessions. We are doing this in a concrete way, i.e.: Since January 1976, 20% of all additional teaching posts are allocated specifically to the sub-standards so that double sessions can be eliminated. Then of course one also has to take into consideration the availability of classrooms. Then there is also the lowering of the pupil/teacher ratio. Let me point out in passing that the hon. member for Edenvale made a mistake in that he divided the number of pupils by the number of classrooms and so arrived at the size of the classes. This however is not correct. He himself referred to the platoon system whereby a principal with his full staff teaches, say, 400 or 500 children in the morning and another principal with his full staff teaches another few hundred children in the afternoon in the same classrooms. In the double sessions scheme the same teacher teaches two classes. In other words, every teacher has two classes. That reduces the number of pupils per teacher.

Then there is also the establishment of special classes for the mentally retarded. In respect of this matter, we had experimental classes in Mamelodi and Atteridgeville, and proved that this was no longer an experiment but that it should be an integrated part of schooling and education for the mentally retarded child at the lower primary school level. We realize that, and we are busy implementing it to such an extent that in 1977 the system will be extended to seven other major centres.

We now come to the question of the additional classrooms. In this respect I want to point out something interesting. The increase in the number of pupils was 107 000. I am speaking of pupils under Bantu education in a single year. If this increase has to be accommodated in additional classrooms—and the calculations are on the basis of 50 pupils per classroom—2 000 additional classrooms are immediately necessary. Furthermore, the reduction in the size of classes and the additional classrooms which that will necessitate, have not yet been budgeted for. If we want to reduce the pupil/teacher ratio even further, say from 50 to 40, one would need about 7 700 additional classrooms in the present circumstances. We made a calculation and if we want to break even as to the number of pupils, say for example at a ratio of 43 pupils per teacher, each with his own classroom, then we should have to build nearly 36 classrooms daily, every school day. Hon. members would do well to think about this. Furthermore, if hon. members bear in mind that a classroom costs R3 400 to R4 000, and R6 000 in South West Africa, they will realize that these are enormous amounts which would have to be budgeted for.

I want to point out that the undertaking in respect of compulsory education which is required of parents, to keep their children at school until Std. 2, is definitely a step in the direction of compulsory education. I am not one of those who are satisfied with a comparison between the position of Blacks in South Africa and the position of Blacks in other parts of Africa. I realize in all soberness that the Black man in South Africa measures his position against that of the Whites in South Africa. That we realize.

Sure!

That is one minor point on which we agree. In other words, that is one little lesson which the Opposition does not have to teach me. It is also very interesting to see that when it suits some bodies and persons, they prefer not only to compare themselves with Africa, they also prefer to associate themselves with Africa for the sake of their “liberation movement”. As I have already said, let us look for interest’s sake at what the position in Africa is with which some of them associate themselves so readily. According to the Unesco yearbook of 1974—the latest one—there are 21 African states which do not have compulsory education. I do not only mention that for the edification of the hon. member for Houghton; that is only for interest’s sake. According to the conference on education in Addis Ababa in 1961 it was decided to have compulsory and free education in all African states by 1980. It was planned that 71% of all children of school-going age should already have started with primary education in 1970, or should have completed it. The actual figure is not 71%, but 37%. In the Republic of South Africa, 72% to 75% of the children of school-going age were at school in 1975, i.e. about 21,07% of the total population. If the fact is taken into account that not all children of school-going age are still at school, or to put it differently: that many children of school-going age who are not at school any more, have dropped out in the meanwhile—but they too were at school—then the percentage of Black children who do receive tuition in practice or have received it, is much higher than the 72% to 75% which we have on record. Reference has been made to the drop-out figure. In the rest of Africa, 50% of all beginners do not progress further than their second school year. The comparative percentage with regard to Black pupils in South Africa was less than 25% in 1975. If the 25%, who spend a year or two or more at school, are taken into account and are counted as people who have received school education, the percentage of Black pupils of school-going age who receive school education, or received it, is considerably higher. Then the picture looks far rosier, even if the fact of the drop-out figure is a less favourable phenomenon.

I also want to refer briefly to the tuition of adults. The existing system of evening classes and of continuation classes under the control of school boards, in terms of which after hours tuition is at present given to nearly 10 200 people has certain shortcomings—shortcomings which we do not want to conceal. One of the reasons for the shortcomings is the fact that the control by school boards leaves much to be desired. It is not, as some like to claim, that evening classes have come to an end. Those which were closed in 1968, were those situated in White residential areas. In terms of Government policy, such schools should preferably be under the control of school boards in Black residential areas.

The existing system of evening schools in Black townships is supported by centres for adult education. In the main Black residential areas it is put into operation and fully financed by the Government. During this year 20 new evening schools are coming into operation. Their aim is to aid the approximately 41 000 adult candidates who enrol for the departmental examinations every year, especially with a view to obtaining the junior and senior certificates.

Last but not least, a few words about the question of literacy. As far as this aspect is concerned, there is a certain amount of concern. It is, however, true that the existing programmes, the existing courses in literacy, are evaluated by the Human Sciences Research Council. The department is busy compiling post-literacy programmes to enable adults to carry on with the improvement of their qualifications. There are inter alia the following courses: a literacy course of six months, a preparatory course of 20 weeks for sub. A to Std. 2; a first course of one year for Std. 3 and Std. 4; a second course of one year for Std. 5; a third course for Std. 8 and a fourth course for Std. 10. The latter two courses are both offered with a view to individual subjects.

Later, when hon. members have had more opportunities to speak, I should like to comment on their contributions and add something here and there. At this stage, however, I shall content myself with what I have already said.

Mr. Chairman, it is difficult to know on what aspect to respond to the hon. the Deputy Minister. He has covered a very wide field and has referred to a great number of the issues which are reported in full in the annual report. On a number of those issues I am in full agreement with the hon. the Deputy Minister. In the first instance, I agree with him that the report is very good. It is an excellent report, a report which gives us the information that we need. In the second instance I believe it is right that we should pay tribute to the hundreds and thousands of teachers who are teaching under extremely difficult conditions throughout South Africa.

Black and White?

Yes, Black and White. I had in mind all teachers. I do not distinguish in that way, as the hon. member should know. As far as I am concerned a teacher is a teacher. I also want to say that we agree that when we are talking about education it is very important to know that those who are being taught are being taught in an environment and against the background with which they are familiar. In other words, culture of course comes into it. One cannot impose a foreign body of facts upon a child and suggest for a moment that that is education. No one on this side of the House is suggesting that at all. What we are saying is that when one artificially separates people in different groups in the way that we are doing in South Africa at every level, we are doing violence to the principle of education rather than the opposite.

I also want to say that there are distinct improvements, set out in this report, in the whole programme of Bantu education. There can be no doubt about that either, and for that too we are grateful.

I want to return to a remark which the hon. the Deputy Minister made in the Bantu Administration debate when he referred to the demonstrations, disturbances and riots which have taken place in South Africa over the last few months. I want to raise once again—I hope for the last time—the vexed question of the language medium and whether or not Afrikaans has any part to play at all in the beginning or the development of the disturbances and the subsequent riots. First of all I would like to ask three questions of the hon. the Deputy Minister and, indeed, of his colleague, the hon. the Minister himself. Firstly, if Afrikaans was not an issue, why then was the regulation changed so very rapidly? Secondly, why now the so-called “new deal” in Bantu education if the cause of the disturbances was simply the work of agitators? Thirdly, why were Messrs. X, Y and Z and not forgetting U, so jubilant about the decision to change the regulation? If it had nothing to do with the disturbances at all and was something of no consequence, why is it then that the hon. the Deputy Minister and his colleagues moved in early July to change the regulation?

Mr. Chairman, may I ask the hon. member a question?

Mr. Chairman, I am afraid my time is very restricted. Where we have sought to condemn the hon. the Deputy Minister is in his stubbornness prior to June 16 when all the warning signs were there and he would not heed them. However, it is not only that. After 16 June that same stubbornness continued. I want to quote what the hon. the Deputy Minister said in Beeld of 17 June 1976—

That was said by the man who is at the head of the Bantu education programme in South Africa. This is the kind of remark that we have become accustomed to from that hon. Deputy Minister. It is very much in line with his own attitude and remarks on Blacks worshipping in White areas. I long for the day when he and I meet in some other place—be it in heaven or in hell, which depends very much on him—to see just how much segregation and how much separate, but equal development there will be there. I am afraid he is in for a great shock and surprise, no matter where he may land up. [Interjections.]

What about yourself?

I said “he and I”.

In the annual report reference is made to the first step towards compulsory education. Earlier on I asked a question of the hon. the Deputy Minister as to how many of the parents who enrolled children in Sub A this year signed an undertaking to keep their children at school for at least four years. The reply was that he was not able to give the information as it was not yet available. I wonder if he has had any further information, or at least some preliminary information, as to how this has been accepted by the parents concerned, because I think it is a very important first step. Obviously, compulsory education must be linked with free education. One cannot compel people to have education and then impose restrictive measures on them by making them pay something they cannot afford. The issue of free books is a good start in this direction, a step which has been very long overdue.

However, I want to say to the hon. the Deputy Minister that despite the commitment to compulsory education—which is new—there remains considerable disillusionment and cynicism among Blacks in general and Black educationalists in particular. One of the new heroes of that side of the House is Prof. Kgware. For a change I should now like to quote him in response to the department’s determination to move towards compulsory education. Prof. Kgware is reported to have said: “It is 40 years too late.” I am, of course, in full agreement with him. Whilst the improvements which have been announced are significant and commendable, we must not underestimate the effect of earlier policies of the Nationalist Government, policies which have done untold harm and have made Bantu education a dirty word for the majority of Blacks. The hon. the Deputy Minister himself acknowledged this earlier in his speech.

That is a scandalous thing to say.

That is exactly what has been said. It is no use hiding from reality. It was Dr. Verwoerd who once said: “Education must train and teach people in accordance with their opportunities in life, according to the sphere in which they live. Native education should be controlled in such a way that it should be in accord with the policy of the State.” The Minister of Bantu Education in 1959, Mr. W. A. Maree, went much further than that. The hon. members over there simply have to try to understand why there is so much disillusionment, suspicion and distrust in South Africa today. I quote from Hansard of April 1959 (Vol. 100, col. 4453)—

He was talking about Blacks and Whites working together at high level in education—

And this is the important sentence—

That is the kind of heritage we have as a result of the Government. That is the kind of thing that has been going on year after year. Now that changes are being made, let us salute those changes and say: “Well done! We are glad to hear about them.” Let us be under no false impression, however. We have an enormous amount of work to do in future, because the kind of situation which has existed in South Africa for the last quarter of a century, is going to catch up with us in days yet to come. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, we have just listened to what the hon. member for Pinelands had to say. He is a former theologian, the hon. the Deputy Minister of Bantu Education is a former theologian and I myself am a former theologian. In view of this, I should like to tell the hon. the Deputy Minister that I find it very difficult to keep my ecumenical relations with the hon. member in order, but despite that, I am doing my best. I have been listening to that hon. member for quite a few years, and sometimes I find it astonishing, even when the hon. member is expounding his theology, how easily he can tear apart the texts of the Scripture. The same goes for his speeches in this House, because look at the simplistic impression he has of the intricate situation as regards the composition of peoples in South Africa in the light of history and he is going to cure it simply by dealing it a few blows. Moreover, that hon. member also finds it very easy to attribute all the problems that exist in South Africa to the NP, their policy and in particular, to the Afrikaner. The hon. member referred, inter alia, to the hereafter where he and the hon. the Deputy Minister might meet one another. In a moment of seriousness, as one clergyman to another, I want to tell the hon. member that Christ’s mercy extends to the members of the NP and to the Afrikaner as well. The hon. member would do well to look at the report of the Department of Bantu Education, because many Afrikaans names appear in it. Many of my people …

I did not say a word about the Afrikaners.

By way of his insinuation about Afrikaans the hon. member has once again stirred up an old issue. I should very much like to make my speech today in a sober, scientific and academic atmosphere. Despite all the venom, propaganda and methods he is using against this side of the House, we shall, in developing our policy continue, calmly and imperturbably, to act not in a panic-stricken, incorrect, hurried and anxious manner, but justly and soundly in the interests of all the peoples of South Africa. Providence has willed that the NP should govern and we shall try to do so with the greatest responsibility and competence, despite all our weaknesses. The hon. member and I shall not live to do so, but our children and our grandchildren will most probably reap the fruits of the policy that we are following. [Interjections.]

I should like to exchange a few ideas in regard to the development of the Bantu universities in South Africa. The growth of the three Black universities is apparent from the following data in particular: Since the establishment of the three universities in 1960, student enrolments have more than doubled every five years. In 1960 there were 366 full-time Black students, whilst in 1976 there were more than 5 000 full-time students at the three universities. The indications are that this trend will continue. For the Government to have been able to make financial provision for the rapidly-growing development of the Black universities, is no small achievement. In summary, the following statistics may be quoted to indicate the financial implications of the phenomenal growth. Current expenditure for the three universities increased from R640 000 in 1960 to approximately R12 080 000 in 1976. What this amounts to, is that there has been almost a twenty-fold increase in the financial expenditure over the past 16 years. If capital expenditure is taken into account the data attest to equally remarkable development.

A visit to any of the three Black universities would leave no doubt in anyone’s mind that the buildings and facilities are not only effective educationally, but also architecturally modern, elegant and impressive. A fact worth mentioning in this regard is that a five-year programme has been drawn up for each of the three universities. This includes complete master plans for housing approximately 5 000 students on each of the campuses. The master plans entail the provision of academic facilities, hostels for both men and women, area development and a wide range of sporting and other student facilities aimed at healthy extramural student activities in particular.

Because the emphasis has fallen mainly on academic and residential facilities, recreational facilities for students have not been quite adequate in the past. This aspect of university life is at present being rectified and is enjoying the urgent attention of the university authorities. Moreover, much progress has already been made as regards recreational facilities for Black staff. For example, a club hall costing R40 000 is being constructed for the Black staff of the University of the North, whereas they also have facilities such as a golf links and a restaurant at their disposal. As an indication of the range of university buildings, the position at the University of the North may be mentioned. At that university there are already seven women’s hostels and 20 for men, together providing accommodation for at least 2 000 students. The largest of these provide residential and dining facilities for 250 students.

In the light of what has been done about the provision of university facilities, it is gratifying to be able to state that continuous growth and progress is noticeable in the academic field. The number of degrees and diplomas conferred at the three Black universities annually, attests to this. In 1960, only 52 degrees were conferred by the University of Fort Hare, whilst in 1975, more than 500 degrees were obtained at the three Black universities. In the same year, 285 diplomas were obtained as well.

A wide spectrum of study courses is already being offered at the Black universities. Faculties of literature and philosophy, natural sciences, administration and commerce, theology, education and law exist at each of those universities. Apart from that, there is a fully-fledged faculty of agriculture and forestry at the University of Fort Hare, all serving the Black population groups in the Republic of South Africa. The same goes for the training facilities in pharmacy, nursing and optometry offered by the University of the North. The Department of Geodesy at the University of Fort Hare is also an inter-ethnic one. Another interesting fact is that the University of Fort Hare offers a degree in agricultural engineering whilst an institute for agricultural research has also been established there with a view to developing agriculture in the homelands. At present, the university is devoting attention to the introduction of a diploma course in drama. It is interesting to know that departments of music, fine arts and applied computer science already exist for Black students.

When it is completed, the Medical University of Southern Africa will fill a great need in the training of Black physicians, dental surgeons and veterinary surgeons. Rapid progress is at present being made in the construction of the necessary academic buildings near Ga Rankuwa and it is expected that the first second-year medical students will be admitted to the university in 1978. These students receive training in the first-year medical courses at the three existing Black universities. The Medical University has been designed to admit 200 medical, 50 dental and 50 veterinary students annually to the second year.

In order to give a further stimulus to the training of the necessary Black physicians and dentists, generous bursaries are being awarded to all Black students who qualify for them. Students studying at the medical faculty in Durban, receive bursaries amounting to R750 per annum. Students who receive such bursaries, undertake to offer their services, on completion of their studies, for an equal number of years in the homelands or other Bantu areas. Bursaries are offered on the same basis to students studying in the educational field. A large variety of bursaries and loans is made available to students in general. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Rissik, in his opening remarks, unfortunately directed his attention to my own speech a little earlier on, referring not to the NP or its policy but to the Afrikaner. I just want to remind him again, as I did by way of an interjection, that not once in my earlier speech did I mention the word. Either he associates the NP with Afrikaners in his own mind, and therefore there is no place for anyone else—I do not know whether this is some sort of psychological slip—or he deliberately moves the criticism away from the policy of the Government to the Afrikaner, thereby stirring up emotions. I hope very much that the hon. member for Rissik will be much more careful when he does that in the future. Because the ground that has to be covered is so vast, and because there is so much that has yet to be done, I want to suggest six points to the hon. the Deputy Minister that I believe are of the utmost priority. Some of them will inevitably overlap with some of the priorities of the Bantu Education Department, as reflected in the report and, indeed, in the hon. the Minister’s speech itself. Firstly, if there is going to be a new deal in Bantu education—because that is the kind of connotation that this matter has been given—there must be, and continue to be, consultation with Blacks as a prerequisite. In other words, if we are going to move in this direction, we must understand that the vast majority of Blacks in education, or those being taught today, are not talking about the mere change of a name. That is not the most important thing. What they want to see is a distinct change in substance. When I emphasize consultation, I do not only mean consultation which means that someone is called into an office and is told what the policy is. I mean that more and more one should find—as one has found now at the University of the North—that Blacks are appointed to the top positions. Here I want to agree again with the hon. the Deputy Minister. I do not believe in reverse discrimination either. I do not believe that one should appoint anyone merely because he happens to be Black or happens to be White. I believe that appointments should be made on merit. If the man or the woman is qualified, he or she ought to get the job. However, there is something about the annual report that does mystify me. If one looks at page 21, one sees the so-called White areas of the Republic divided into six regions. Virtually all the regional directors and all the inspectors are White. There are 45 White inspectors and one Bantu inspector, six regional directors and 122 Bantu assistant inspectors. However, the exact opposite is the case in the homeland areas. Is this because there is a shortage of staff? Is it deliberate policy to have them confined or attracted to the homeland areas? Or is this a deliberate attempt to keep the total control at the very top, in the so-called White areas, even though we are dealing here with Bantu education …

It is not “so-called”.

Of course it is “so-called”. There are Blacks and Whites everywhere. You know, one even finds Black people in Cape Town! That is the first point I want to make. Consultation at every level is an absolute prerequisite if we are going to make any real advance.

The second absolute priority is the training of teachers. Reference has already been made, in the report and by the hon. the Deputy Minister, to the attempts that are being made to raise the standards because the standards are appallingly low. Less than one African teacher in 10 has a matriculation certificate, and goodness knows that is low enough. We obviously need more teachers and we also need better qualified teachers. In the annual report we are told that there are six new training colleges, and my question to the hon. the Deputy Minister is: What does the report mean when it states that the matter has reached an advanced stage of planning? I would be very glad if the hon. the Deputy Minister could tell us exactly how far we have progressed with those training colleges. Financial aid to teachers, in order to raise qualifications, is commendable, but we have to have more colleges in urban areas. At the present time there is not a single one in Cape Town. Again and again some of the hardships, which we as White people never experience, are the daily lot of the Blacks. If they want to get to a secondary school they very often have to travel hundreds of miles and pay boarding fees. This is something we do not have to do. If they want to train as teachers they very often have to go to far-off areas which they have never been to before because it is the policy of the Government. Instead of building the colleges where the people are, we seem to be content to divide them in this unreasonable way.

Thirdly, I believe there must be a very much quicker movement towards salary parity. Salaries paid to teachers in general are very low indeed, but the salaries paid to Black teachers are discriminatory and disgraceful. It is no wonder, then, that so many Blacks are now leaving the teaching profession. Last year I was told that in the western Cape a male primary school teacher was paid R92 per month and that a fully qualified high school principal at the top of his salary scale was paid approximately the same as a White female primary school teacher with only a training college qualification at the bottom of her salary scale. That is simply not good enough. If we are going to invest in the people of this country, we must begin with our teachers, and especially those teachers who are labouring under the very difficult conditions of double sessions, inadequate schools and classrooms, etc.

Fourthly, I suggest a dramatic narrowing of the gap between the amounts spent on Black and White school children. According to the latest figures I have been able to obtain, R41 per year is spent on each Black child. That may vary a little; it may even have gone up—I certainly hope it has. By contrast more than R600 per year is spent on each White child. This means that more than ten times as much, to put it conservatively, is spent on each White child as is spent on each African child. What is more, the drop-out rate amongst African school children is most alarming. It is true that there are over three million Black children at school at the sub A level. However, less than 1% of that total enrolment reaches matric. One then realizes that, without making any kind of comparison, if we are to have better teachers, we must start by making sure that the secondary schools are producing the kind of people we are going to need.

Fifthly, I believe—here the hon. the Deputy Minister and I obviously part company—that if one looks at our priorities in South Africa, it is clear that we need the formation of a new Department of National Education. We could put the present Minister of National Education in overall charge. The Department of Sport and Recreation could perhaps be given to the hon. member for Johannesburg West. The hon. members for Moorreesburg and Vereeniging could perhaps be appointed as Deputy Ministers. This would make for a pretty start. Naturally, we have to start with what we have. Unfortunately, we cannot include the best candidates who are sitting in these benches. To be serious, I really believe we shall never resolve the anomalies, the hurt, the suspicion and the discrimination which still exist in Bantu education until there is a co-ordinated department looking after the total needs of all South Africans. If we do not strive to obtain these objectives, not only because it is the right thing to do, but also because it is the only sensible and secure thing to do, I cannot see how we can avoid revolution in Southern Africa.

My sixth and final point is that with these five priorities a great deal more money must be made available. It is all very well for the hon. member for Port Natal to say that more than R50 million has been added. That is not so. The buildings take up the difference. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Pinelands stated certain priorities and also asked the hon. the Deputy Minister certain questions, none of which I shall go into. He made certain remarks about secondary education, however, to which I shall refer in the course of my speech.

Frequent reference has been made to the necessity of establishing a larger Black middle-class, a middle-class of proprietors that has learnt to know and appreciate the meaning and the value of private ownership. It is important that a middle-class be established that comprises Black people who, because of their own possessions and vested interests, would also run the risk of losing a great deal if disorder and anarchy were to prevail. That is why such an economic middle-class has an important stabilizing influence on the community. Consequently, it is important that we should do everything in our power to ensure that this group grows rapidly.

One important factor that could make a large contribution to the establishment of such a middle-class, is education and particularly secondary education. Primary education is particularly important for the developing nations, but without the essential supplementation and completion of this by secondary education, the child’s potential is not developed to the full. Someone once said that if education means that windows to life are opened, then primary education opens a window onto a courtyard, whilst secondary education makes it possible to see beyond the confines of the house, and even the far-off horizons.

Without a broad basis of secondary education, no people could develop adequately and many of the problems we have in South Africa could not be solved because for a long time now, the function of the school has not been merely to eliminate ignorance and illiteracy. The school, and in this case the Black school in South Africa, is one of the most important—to put it this way—answers or solutions to the problems we have to contend with. That is why Black education remains one of the highest priorities of the Government, even under difficult financial conditions. The numbers of Black pupils at high schools are certainly not adequate or by any means satisfactory. But the growth tempo—the hon. leaders of the Opposition parties must take note of this—is spectacular and this graph shows a sharp upward tendency.

One must also bear in mind that it is a very difficult and slow process to effect a significant increase in the number of pupils at secondary level. Pupils do not simply reach high school overnight. High school is the culmination of a process that begins in the parental home and extends over many years. The level of development of the parents and particularly their attitude and approach to secondary education, is of vital importance. Initially, Black parents thought that completion of primary school meant an adequate education for their children. Today, this attitude is rapidly changing. More and more parents and children are realizing how essential secondary education is. They realize that secondary education opens new doors to more careers and better opportunities.

The increase over the years in the number of pupils that have been admitted to form I—i.e. the beginners’ class of the secondary school—reveals an extremely encouraging tendency. In 1965, 25 300 pupils started in form I. In 1970, 41 800 pupils started in form I, and this represents an average annual growth rate of 12,9%. In 1975, 123 900 pupils enrolled and this represents a growth rate of 39,3%. In 1976, their numbers increased to an unbelievable 214 500, a growth rate of 73%. It is true that this extraordinary increase has been influenced by the fact that Bantu education has now changed over from a 13-year school structure to a 12-year school structure. But even when this is taken into account, this growth rate remains a spectacular one. This wave of pupils in 1976 means that there will be more than 30 000 candidates for the matriculation examination in 1980. On the other hand, expressed as a percentage of the total Black population, this does not sound very impressive. However, if we take into account that there were 957 matriculants in 1960, 1 500 in 1965 and 5 500 in 1973, then 30 000 in 1980 indicates phenomenal growth. That is what is important. What is important, is the tendency towards growth and development in Bantu education. In fact, South Africa is the only country in the world that has a large and developing population and can boast of such a consistent and dramatic growth curve. The high dropout figure, an aspect to which the hon. the Deputy Minister also referred, is in fact one of the most characteristic phenomena of secondary education in Africa. The projections relating to secondary education in the future, are even more spectacular.

In newsletter No. 76 of the Human Sciences Research Council, it is stated that according to expectations, there will be as many as 645 000 Black pupils in high schools by 1980, and that by 1990, there will be as many as 1,4 million. The complete educational profile of Blacks in South Africa is even more overwhelming. When the number of pupils who are receiving primary and secondary education and technical training is added up, the expected number of Black pupils at public and private schools will already amount to five million by 1980, whilst by 1990, it will already amount to 8,1 million. This is a terrific number. It is almost twice the present White population; and all this has happened within 12 to 13 years.

Is there a country in Africa that can boast of such dramatic growth in the numbers of its educated? Is there another country in Africa whose educational prospects are so rosy? No. There are many African countries that will have to realize that whilst one can become rich in weapons and soldiers, one can become poor in knowledge. Then the soul of a nation suffers harm.

Bantu education in South Africa is not without its problems and shortcomings. We are quite prepared to admit this. But then people like the hon. member for Pinelands should also be fair and reasonable and take cognizance of the positive growth and developments that are taking place in this field. I believe secondary education is extremely vital for peaceful co-existence in South Africa. South Africa’s future is going to be determined by the quality of the education we give to the children of her peoples. It is for that very reason that we can say with conviction today that we are not afraid of the future.

Mr. Chairman, our problem in this debate this afternoon lay in breaking the thread of the former theologians. [Interjections.] We sat and listened to the former theologians throughout the afternoon. The contributions by the former theologians in the NP were very lucid. It is unfortunate, however, that a former theologian in the PRP should be so negative that he does not take account of realities and cannot understand that we are dealing with development. He made a tremendous fuss about non-White teachers’ salaries, which according to him are disgracefully low. But does the hon. member not realize that the Government is engaged in an evolutionary development; in the field of Bantu education as well? Is he unable to comprehend the significance of the fact that during the past seven years, the salaries of Black teachers have increased by 110% in the case of men, and by 132% in the case of women? If one would only look for something positive, one would find it. However, if someone is not prepared to think positively, then, I believe, he is not able to recognize any positive development either.

This afternoon I want to discuss the construction of school buildings and the provision of educational institutions. The question of the financing and construction of school buildings and other educational institutions for the Bantu, is fairly complicated. In general, the man in the street knows very little about it and people who are otherwise well informed, do not know all the ins and outs. Very often, the upshot of this is that incorrect and distorted viewpoints on the matter are expounded. This matter needs to be set out in detail to eliminate possible misunderstandings or misconceptions, particularly in regard to the functions of the Department of Bantu Education.

The department deals with and has control over a variety of educational institutions which are financed and constructed in various ways by a variety of departments and bodies. According to the present pattern of financing, the following departments and bodies are involved in the physical provision of educational facilities for the Bantu: The Department of Bantu Education, the Department of Bantu Administration and Development, the Department of Public Works, and the Department of Community Development. Then, too, there are the various Bantu Affairs Administration Boards, farm owners, tribal authorities, school boards, homeland governments, owners of mines and factories and control bodies of schools for special education.

For the sake of clarity, it is also necessary to give an indication as to how schools and institutions are classified in the various areas for financing and construction purposes. In White areas we find Government institutions such as teachers’ training schools, senior secondary schools, departmental and public industrial centres, private primary schools on Government property, primary and junior secondary community schools in urban Bantu residential areas, farm schools, and mine and factory schools. Moreover, in the Bantu Trust areas we have Government institutions such as Bantu universities, colleges for advanced technical education, teachers’ training schools, senior secondary schools, technical and trade schools, as well as the rand-for-rand subsidy basis for community schools and community schools as a part of township development. In the Bantu homelands we find homeland schools, those post-primary educational institutions to which pupils from mainly the White areas are admitted.

Although the policy in respect of post-primary instruction remains homeland-orientated, the institutions in the homelands are finding it increasingly difficult to accommodate the growing numbers of pupils from White areas. Consequently, in order to relieve this accommodation crisis, it was decided to provide senior secondary Government schools and a few teachers’ training schools in addition to the function of the Bantu Administration Boards in providing and constructing primary and junior secondary schools in Bantu residential areas in White areas.

The financing and provision of these Government schools is undertaken by the Department of Public Works, as the supply department, in its appropriation. Consequently, the construction, hiring and maintenance of the Government schools are the responsibility of the Department of Public Works. Initially, it was decided that 15 new senior secondary schools had to be constructed over a period of five years. Meanwhile, however, the demand for accommodation has become so urgent that the programme will have to be completed within three years. The first five schools—two in Soweto, one in Sebokeng, one in Kathlehong and one in Langa—will be constructed during the present financial year. Two educational institutions, namely the Mopahadi training school at Kroonstad and the Sebokeng training school, will also be provided.

Arising out of a decision by the Government in 1974 that the productivity of the Bantu in industry had to be increased, the following training institutions, in whose construction the State has a direct interest, came into being, namely departmental industrial centres and public industrial training centres. The departmental industrial centres are constructed in urban residential areas by the Department of Public Works in accordance with a list of requisites and a priority basis drawn up by the Department of Bantu Education. Eight of these centres have already been completed and another eight are still in the planning stage at present. The costs involved in the centres amount to R250 000 per centre. R200 000 is spent on equipment for every centre. The public centres for training Black workers are constructed by the Department of Public Works for industry in White industrial areas. The State’s contribution to the construction of those centres amounts to R150 000 per centre, plus R100 000 for equipment.

Primary and senior secondary community schools are constructed and maintained as part of housing schemes in White urban areas by the various Bantu Affairs Administration Boards. Loans for this purpose are awarded by the Department of Community Development at the request of the Bantu Affairs Administration Boards. Capital and interest are redeemed from revenue obtained from a teaching levy that is payable along with the hire of the premises.

Farm schools are constructed in White areas by the owners of farms for the pupils of their workers. A maximum subsidy of R1 000 per classroom or R1 800 for two classrooms is paid to farm owners by the Department of Bantu Education. I want to emphasize that the farming community makes a very substantial contribution in this regard, particularly if we take into account that in the past, farmers bore most of the costs themselves and made very little use of the subsidies. The owners of mines and factories provide classrooms themselves and receive no State aid for this. That is all I have to say as far as the construction of institutions in White areas is concerned.

Up to now, the Department of Bantu Administration and Development has budgeted on the S.A. Bantu Trust Account for educational buildings in Bantu Trust areas. The construction of some of these buildings was undertaken by the Department of Bantu Administration and Development itself, whilst the Department of Bantu Education paid for the others. Last year, however, it was decided that as from the 1977-’78 financial year, the Department of Bantu Education itself would budget for the construction and maintenance of the Government institutions in question. Apart from this, the department will also make provision in its budget for schools constructed on a rand-for-rand basis by the tribal authorities and school boards. However, the Department of Bantu Administration and Development remains responsible for educational buildings that form part of township developments. The post-primary educational institution that is being promoted by the Department of Bantu Education will be used mainly by pupils from the White areas. Hostels will be made available to them. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, having participated in the discussion of the Vote “Bantu Education” for a number of years, I have become accustomed to glowing pictures being painted by hon. members on that side of the House.

We know your picture too!

I want to give a realistic picture compared to the rest of Africa and state a challenge to which the hon. the Minister will not respond. I agree that when one compares the situation of Bantu education in South Africa with that of the rest of Africa, we are streets ahead of them. [Interjections.] I should, however, like to ask the hon. the Minister of Bantu Education whether he can name one country in Africa which, for fifteen years—as happened at the edict of Dr. Verwoerd in South Africa—pegged the State expenditure on Bantu education on R13 million? Is there another country in Africa which can claim that sad record?

It was not too little!

The hon. the Minister is silent now.

I said it was not too little!

When hon. members on that side of the House paint these glowing pictures, they should perhaps let their imagination go a little further and think what the picture in regard to Bantu education would have been had there been an expenditure in the trend of all other Cabinet posts, namely an increase year by year. What would have been the picture then? Would hon. members have had to get up on the other side of the House and plead for more school buildings, classrooms and teachers? I believe we would have been in a much happier position.

During the debate on the Bantu Education Amendment Bill, I raised the question of adult education in White areas with the hon. the Minister and I appealed to him to provide facilities for adult education accessible, not necessarily in White areas, for domestic servants. In his reply the hon. the Minister said that there were certain difficulties in this regard, and he went on to say that the Opposition sought the concentration of activities of Black people living in White residential areas. The hon. Minister continued—

Then the hon. the Minister suggested that perhaps I could raise the matter again under this Vote. What are some of the facts in regard to adult education for the Bantu? We welcome the improvements which have been announced in regard to the establishment of facilities, all of which, as far as we know, are in townships and not accessible to urban domestic workers. Take the situation in Durban as an example. I am fairly reliably informed that there are approximately 28 000 Bantu domestic workers in Durban, and it is estimated that from 10 000 to 12 000 of them are living in servants’ quarters adjoining the homes of their White employers. I am quite certain that similar situations exist in other major centres of the Republic. There is no sense in saying that accommodation is available for these people in the Bantu townships, because the Bantu townships are already overcrowded.

On the figures which the hon. the Minister gave me in answer to my questions, I have established that the ratio of person to house, the average in the four Bantu townships surrounding Durban—that is KwaMashu, Umlazi, Chesterville and Lamontville—is eight persons per house. There is thus no room for any more people there, and these domestic servants will have to stay where they are. Those are the official figures. But what is the actual situation? The official figures list the population of Umlazi at approximately 157 000. My information, which comes from a very good source as well, indicates that the population is nearer 300 000. The hon. the Deputy Minister also referred to the concentration of activities of Black people living in White residential areas. What are the activities of urban Black employees living in White areas at the moment? What do they do in their leisure hours, which in any event are pretty few? They can be confined to their kia’s or their houses at the back of their employer’s property or they can gather on pavements or on street comers. There are no facilities or opportunities to improve themselves by attending any classes whatsoever. During the hon. the Prime Minister’s Vote, the hon. the Deputy Minister was reported as saying, and I quote from The Citizen of 24 April—

The hon. the Deputy Minister is quoted as having said further—

That is a very profound thought. My appeal to the hon. the Deputy Minister involves a minor change to give a major opportunity to the urban Bantu domestic workers as far as adult education facilities are concerned. It would be a change creating literacy from illiteracy and an ability to understand and appreciate the significance of events and developments. It would create a better understanding between employer and employee and lead to greater productivity. I am not suggesting that the establishment of these centres should necessarily be in White residential areas, but I do suggest that it is feasible to provide a suitable venue for adult education and training in industrial and commercial areas adjacent or near to the White residential areas. I believe that if the hon. the Deputy Minister were to provide the motivation and grant the necessary permission, suitable venuses could be found. Let me give an example. Let us take the Sydney-Dalton Road complex in Durban. There are 1 500 Bantu men in a hostel in that industrial-commercial area. Surely it would be possible to establish an adult education centre there, where these men could improve themselves, in an area adjacent to Berea, Glenwood, Congella or Umbilo. If they wished to, domestic servants could then avail themselves of the chance for education. As the hon. the Minister has said, the scope is limitless now. A start can be made at the point of illiteracy and progress be made right up to matriculation exemption. I know there are many who would still like to avail themselves of the chances they had before this Government deprived them of the opportunity by closing the schools in the White areas. I believe that it is encouraging to read in the annual report of the Department of Bantu Education that literacy is extending to this level of education. The report also states—

Will the hon. the Deputy Minister please give serious thought to this suggestion of mine? It would make life so much more pleasant for so many young people who seek to learn but who have lacked the opportunity to do so.

I also want to refer to another aspect. My colleague, the hon. member for Umhlatuzana, said the following when he referred to the riots, and I quote—

We know that the parents themselves are anxious to allow their children to avail themselves of opportunities for education, but what is the position of the teachers? We have been told that there are 63 000-odd teachers and that there are approximately 8 500 school principals. There are 5 800 primary school teachers in the Republic. However, the salaries for these school principals have not been revised since 1974. I know that the minimum educational standard for those school principals is Std. 8 plus two further years of training. I also know that this does not compare with the academic qualifications of White school principals, but I submit in all seriousness that their responsibility in these times is greater. Their influence in the formation of young minds and in moulding the thinking of young people, if they themselves are satisfied and happy in their work, is inestimable. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Berea will not hold it against me if I do not react to his speech, except just to say that I was definitely impressed with the way in which he argued his case, in contrast to the contributions of some other hon. members who are inclined to exaggerate statements instead of discussing them in a balanced way, as I shall try to indicate in a moment.

Firstly I should very much like to react to a matter which was raised by the hon. member for Pinelands. It is an old story which we heard last year as well as the year before, namely the objection to the amount which is spent on Bantu education as against the amount spent on White education. Surely it is quite clear that the hon. member for Pine-lands ought to realize that there is a vast difference in numbers between the Whites and the Blacks as regards the school-going population. Obviously there is such a great difference that if the same amount were to be spent on Black education, the implications would be so far-reaching that there simply would not be enough money available.

Secondly, the hon. member is conveniently forgetting that if one compares White education with Black education, it is quite obvious that one is dealing with more advanced education in the case of White education. If we compare the number of White pupils at secondary school with the number of Black pupils at secondary school, we find a great basic difference. Of course secondary education is more expensive than primary education. Therefore it is obviously not correct simply to compare the amount of R41—I think this is the amount which the hon. member quoted—with the amount of R600. In using such an argument, surely the hon. member is trying to mislead the Committee.

I should also like to deal with an argument raised by the hon. member for Edenvale last night. With all due respect towards the hon. member I want to point out that I think he delivered well-balanced speeches in the House in both 1974 and 1975. To be sure, he criticized certain things, but the speeches were calm and balanced. I want to tell the hon. member straight out that the contribution which he made last night left me with quite the opposite impression. It seems to me that the hon. member has completely lost his balance; that he is closing his eyes to one side of the matter and using a magnifying glass to study the other.

The hon. member quoted from page 3 of the report. I am afraid that the hon. member not only misread it, but—I want to charge him with this—also brought the Committee under the wrong impression. Amongst other things he spoke about the 1 500 additional teachers who have to be made available to Bantu education every year. However, what he lost sight of was the fact that the report states very clearly that the training of teachers is being planned in such a way that buildings must be erected with the facilities required for training approximately 1 500—the following words are important—additional teachers every year. I want to take the argument further. Last year 6 642 teachers qualified. The report says that they plan to have 1 500 teachers qualify annually, apart from the 6 642. Therefore they are additional to the 6 642 teachers. If we take this analysis further—this is something which the hon. member forgot …

I asked a question.

The hon. member must give me the opportunity to continue. The hon. member forgot to spell it out to the Committee that the school-going population increased by 106 993 in 1975-’76. Surely it is correct—the hon. member will grant me this—that if I apply the present pupil/teacher ratio of 59:1 to the 106 993 pupils—that is, if I take the increase in the school-going population into account—I arrive at the figure of 2 016. Therefore we would actually have needed 2 016 teachers to maintain the pupil/teacher ratio at 59:1. What is the actual position? The fact is that 6 642 teachers have qualified and that plans have been made for an additional 1 500. Therefore the fact of the matter is that 4 626 additional teachers qualified last year and can be used to replace unqualified teachers and, secondly, to improve the pupil/teacher ratio. The hon. member is shaking his head so emphatically that the noise is actually confusing me. Nevertheless these are the facts. I think that the hon. member has interpreted them quite incorrectly.

I asked a question. I did not make a statement.

Mr. Chairman, anyone who studies the report of the department of Bantu Education must be impressed by the immense task which is being performed by the department. To me it is a foregone conclusion that these people are moving mountains. Of course there are still problems; there is no doubt about that. Of course there is a backlog; we know this. But surely we must also see the positive side of this. We must read this report with an open mind and be willing to see the positive side of the situation as well. If we do this, I am sure that we shall see that the positive side far outweighs the shortcomings which still exist.

As I see it, the two greatest problems which are being experienced in Bantu education are the shortage of properly qualified and specialist teachers on the one hand and, on the other hand the high rate of increase in the number of pupils, at secondary school level in particular. Let me quote a few figures. In 1979, there were 15 918 000 pupils, including the Transkei. In 1976 there were 16 093 000, excluding the Transkei. This includes pupils from Sub A to matric. What is surprising is that the number of pupils at secondary level has increased so enormously, by 217%. This indicates that there has been a shift towards higher education in respect of the Bantu as well.

The latest tendency concerning the number of pupils is also interesting. The hon. the Deputy Minister has already referred to the fact that the number of pupils in Sub A showed a negative growth rate of minus 2,8% in 1975-’76. This indicates that the wave of Black children we must accommodate in the schools has now levelled off and that we have therefore made provision for all the Black pupils who do want to receive education. The total number of pupils at primary school level also decreased in 1975-’76. There was a negative growth rate of minus 6,3% at this level. I concede that this was after the St. 6 pupils had been transferred to secondary schools.

I just want to draw attention briefly to the ratio between pupils and teachers to which the hon. the Minister also referred. In 1955 it was 50:2. In 1970 it rose to 59:8, which was definitely alarming. However, it did not stop there. Today it is 51:9, excluding the Transkei, as the hon. the Deputy Minister pointed out. In the Republic of South Africa, excluding the homelands, it is 49,7, which is a great improvement on the 59:8 of 1970.

What is being done to combat the problems which I have referred to? In 1971, 8 148 student teachers completed their training at 35 institutions. Since 1971, 15 new training colleges have come into operation, four of which are in the White areas—I do not have time to mention them by name—and 11 in the homelands. At the end of 1976, 15 000 student teachers were being trained at 35 institutions. I do not include the Transkei; there are approximately 2 000 student teachers there. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, unlike the Opposition, the hon. member for Virginia argued his case very well and presented us with a more positive picture. Lot had hope because he had faith on his side. However, this Opposition has no hope and even less faith. Last night in this House the hon. member for Pietermaritzburg North did nothing but launch a tirade against the so-called poor education which is being provided for the Bantu. I consider it disgraceful to try and disparrage the serious efforts of the Government and the Department of Bantu Education, while massive efforts are being made to give the Bantu training and education, people who reproduce without restraint and increase at a very high rate.

I should like to refer the hon. member to the Pretoria News. He does not have to listen to me. The following appeared in the Pretoria News of 3 March, under the heading “Big boost for Black education”—

Then the Pretoria News goes on to talk about “this huge percentage increase in spending on Black education”. But that hon. member is sorry about it, because it is so much more difficult now to make political capital out of it.

The hon. member for Edenvale was a little more positive, and so was the hon. member for Pinelands, to my great amazement. Over the years Bantu education has progressed at an ever-increasing and phenomenal rate under this Government. Mr. Chairman, you will remember that for a period of 16 years the department was limited to a financial allocation of only R13 million plus tax paid by Blacks. In the 1972-’73 financial year the present vote was created and the picture as regards the subsequent increased expenditure is as follows: In 1955, R15 million was voted under the old dispensation, i.e. for the whole Republic; the vote in 1964-’65, also under the old dispensation, was R24 million for the whole Republic; the vote for 1972-’73, that is, under the new dispensation, i.e. only for Bantu in White areas, was R32 million; the vote for 1976-’77, also under the new dispensation, and also only for Bantu in White areas, was R78 million, and for 1977-’78, also under the new dispensation and only for Bantu in White areas, it was R117,4 million. This is the growth, progress and development which has taken place in regard to Bantu education. The Opposition is asking for an instant solution. Firstly, even if it had been possible to have an instant solution, simply to have teachers trained overnight, etc., a completely lop-sided development would have taken place. Just as is the case when an individual experiences sudden development, there will be lop-sided development in that respect too. There has never been stagnation, but up to now only continual progress and growth in this sphere.

The Government and the department have always had to put up with unfair criticism. For years there was talk about the fact that Bantu education was not free and the provision of free school books was brought up. This is an exaggerated approach, because the three reading books in the three languages—Afrikaans, English and the Bantu languages—have been provided free from as far back as 20 years ago. Over the past few years the Government has spent R500 000 on this annually. The hon. the Deputy Minister referred to the programme which was instituted approximately four years ago, a programme which takes into account the provision of free books to Black scholars. He pointed out that ultimately, in January 1979, there should be provision for free books for all Black pupils. Apart from the fact that textbooks and reading books will be provided free, the useful life of the books is also taken into account. The useful life of the books is normally taken to be between three and four years. After that period the books are replaced and supplemented. Furthermore, the programme is considered a preparatory step towards introducing compulsory education. Apart from the R2 million for purchasing school books, the allocation for the provision of library books amounts to R100 000 annually.

However, there is a matter which I should like to bring to the attention of the department. This is that it should possibly be suggested that book training should be a very important subject in the training of pupils. I find that in White schools, too, the real value of books—the real value which should be attached to books—is never realized properly. I believe that more attention should definitely be paid to book training in schools. This will contribute towards books lasting much longer.

I was pleased to learn from the annual report that Bibles in various languages are provided by the Bible Society. These Bibles are provided at a subsidized price and the amount involved is already R40 000. As Whites here at the southern tip of Africa, it is one of our tasks to christianize the other population groups in our country too. To me it is a very good sign that Bibles are being provided to Black pupils. Furthermore, R170 000 has been voted for the improvement of apparatus and equipment in laboratories for education in the natural sciences. Every school which falls within reach of an FM transmitter is provided with a radio, in order to make it possible for scholars to listen to the daily school radio broadcasts transmitted by Radio Bantu. Apart from the R223 000 allocated to the department for maintaining this educational service, provision has also been made for additional radio sets and other audio-visual equipment. Approximately R300 000 has been voted for purchasing equipment for the practical subjects, like gardening, handwork, homecraft, etc. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I will not say much about the speech of the hon. member for Hercules, except that it is obvious that he has studied the report. He convinced us of that. But I wonder if the hon. member has ever paid a visit to the schools he talks about so glowingly. I am certain that if he did he also would have discovered the conditions that the hon. member for Pietermaritzburg North spoke about last night.

I want to speak about what I think is the stepchild of Bantu education, i.e. technical education. I call it the stepchild because so far in this debate nobody has even referred to it and, furthermore, although we are grateful for the report of the department, I cannot find very much information in it to give me much joy in so far as technical education is concerned. It is rather difficult to discover from the report how much capital is being allocated to technical and trade schools which are being or have been built or for the buying of equipment. Neither is there much information about the staff that is being employed, their qualifications, or about the number of people it is envisaged would be employed. From the information available like this it is very difficult to discover whether there has indeed been any progress in technical education in the Bantu areas or even in the White areas. I notice from the report that there are now apparently about 25 schools controlled by the Department of Bantu Education, schools where trade and technical subjects are taught. The report says there are 15 trade schools, six secondary schools teaching vocational subjects, three trade schools under construction and another trade school at Madadeni that is possibly open already or should be opening this year. This gives a total of 25. I see that most of the courses vary from two to three years. According to the little information that I can get the output of boys trained is apparently 3 600 every two years. This gives an average of 1 800 per year. If one relates that to the number of schools it works out at an average of 75 trainees per institution. This to me sounds wrong. I cannot understand how a trade schools can turn out only 75 trainees a year, whereas most White trade schools in South Africa are handling a minimum of 300 to 400 trainees a year. I could not understand it and therefore tried to discover the reasons therefore in respect of one particular subject with which I am familiar, i.e. welding. What is being done as far as welding is concerned? I know that non-Whites are most suitable for welding. Although repetitive, it calls for a high degree of concentration. Non-Whites seem to like it and they do it very well. A study of the report shows that only 11 courses are available for Bantu welders and that 314 welders were trained in two years. That is 175 per year, or an average of 14 per school. This is the thing that bugs me. I cannot understand how one trade instructor can only turn out 14 trainees per year per school. I presume that there is at least one instructor in welding at a school. He should be able to turn out at least 30 trainees per year, when one thinks back to the old COTT scheme, which turned out 50 to 60 trainess per course which lasted for only a couple of months. Even today, in the White trade schools or technical high schools, one trade instructor can turn out 40 trainees per year.

I wonder what the problem is. Is it the equipment or the expertise? Is there not enough equipment to train more boys? If so, I can understand it. But why are we not told how much equipment there is and how much it is being planned to expand on equipment in the coming year? A conservative guess is that there are 3 655 pupils this year, and I reckon for those pupils one should have at least 180 instructors, because no trade instructor can handle more than 20 boys per class. 180 gives an average of 20 odd per class. I put a question to the hon. the Minister in this respect last year, question No. 903. In reply he said there were only 39 trade instructors with certificates in the Department of Bantu Education. In addition 18 were academically qualified and had taken a few technical subjects. This gives a total of 57. Who are the rest and what qualifications have they got? There is nothing in the report about the qualifications of these trade instructors. As a matter of fact, according to the report neither the director of the department, nor the chief education planner nor the education planner has technical qualifications. They possess M.A.s and B.A.s, but not one has an engineering or technical degree. This may perhaps be where the fault lies.

I also notice that the report gives no failure rate. Last year the failure rate was given. Last year’s failure rate was not a bad one—it was between 80% and 90%. I should like to know the reason why it is not given this year. Is it worse this year? If it were better, I presume it would have been in the report. According to the hon. the Minister’s reply to my question, the basic requirement for a trade instructor is a five-year apprenticeship in a recognized trade!

I should like to know where they are going to get Black tradesmen with five-year apprenticeship in a trade, and if they are able to get them, are they able to compete with the wages a Black tradesman can earn in industry outside or can earn for himself as his own employer? I think we must admit that job reservation is finished. The Government admits it. We must also admit that the Physical Planning Act will not be implemented much in the near future. These two Acts will be honoured more in the breach than in fact. We must look to the future. We know that the White youth is not interested in the trades. Even in this time of economic recession and unemployment, White boys are not coming forward to take up trade work. We know there is an industrial boom coming. After a recession there must be a boom. There is a backlog of work to be caught up with. We hope so, in any case, and we must plan for it if we believe it. This does not appear to be the case with the department. The homelands are training men, but they will never keep these trained men once there is an industrial boom. They will go to the White areas where they can earn far more money. There is going to be an acute shortage of Black tradesmen. This is something the Department of Bantu Education should plan for more realistically. Why can we not have more Black trade schools in White areas?

The hon. the Minister went to great lengths yesterday to explain to us that Soweto was a White area and was going to remain one, although I think those are going to be his famous last words! Nevertheless, I asked for more trade schools in the White areas. I see that at the moment no trades are being taught to Bantu in the Free State or in the White areas in the Cape. I know the Basuto in the Free State is eminently suited to trade work. Why are there no trade schools for the Basuto in White areas? They should be trained and provision should be made for them. I see a trade school is being planned at Welkom. However, in the report it is not indicated when this trade school is going to be opened.

I should like to compare the figures. The total turn-out of trainees in White areas was 431, as opposed to 3 300 in the Black areas. Something should be done about the situation. I appeal to the hon. the Minister to increase the capacity and output of the trade schools. The first requirement is that he should educate the Black youth that there is dignity in labour, that a white-collar job is not superior to an overall job, that a tradesman can today earn more than his counterpart in commerce and that, furthermore, he can establish his own business and so become independent. All these advantages should be brought to the attention of Black youths. Plenty of material should then become available. I should suggest that what is needed, is a Black SSB similar to what we had for the White youth in the last depression. This will give them some sense of discipline and self-respect. These people make the best tradesmen. The greatest need at the moment is to step up the training of trade instructors. The hon. the Minister should know—if nobody else knows—that one cannot train tradesmen without instructors. He should therefore offer incentives and better pay to obtain these people. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for South Coast will forgive me if I do not follow up on his remarks. The hon. member for Edenvale said last night he was grateful for the adult education centres which had been established. I want to take a closer look at the question of adult education this afternoon and explain it. Education for adults was introduced in August 1975. We are all agreed that the education of the child is and remains the primary purpose of education. Hence we find that a very high standard has been maintained at all times in the education of our youth because of the time, manpower and funds which have been devoted to their education. Literacy training and the further education of adults can therefore now be given attention to for the first time. The Department of Bantu Education is the largest department of education in the Republic. It has approximately million pupils, 12 000 schools and 67 000 teachers. Statistics of Transkei are excluded from these figures.

It is pleasing to note that a start was made in 1975 with literacy training for a fairly large number of illiterate people. This year there is an appropriation of R350 000 for adult education. Adult education provides training for those who cannot attend a normal school. In this connection special attention is given to two particular aspects. In the first place there are literacy classes and secondly there is the improvement of qualifications. Adult education is offered to people who for socioeconomic reasons have had to leave school early. Their qualifications are improved through the medium of night schools, continuation classes, private study and correspondence colleges. These students are called private candidates. They write the annual departmental external exams from Std. 5 to Form V. The latter is the Matriculation or Senior Certificate examination.

It is interesting to note that the Department of Bantu Education is the examining body which controls all examinations from primary school up to and including Form III. For Form V, Bantu candidates write the National Senior Certificate or Matriculation examination in the same way as private candidates of all the other population groups. In 1976 there were 1 229 private candidate entrants for Std. 5; 13 155 for Form III and 27 187 for matric. This gives a total of 41 571.

In August 1976 there was a changeover to the establishment of State centres—these are the centres to which the hon. member for Edenvale has referred. The centres are established as required to meet the needs of the number of pupils, and are in no way a substitute for the existing night schools. Night schools continue to exist parallel with State centres. No buildings are erected and use is made of available accommodation. In this connection the Bantu Administration boards everywhere in the country are particularly helpful with the provision of accommodation for the schools. To date there are 17 such centres of which 12 are already functioning. They are situated, inter alia, in Cape Town, Port Elizabeth, Grahamstown, Pietermaritzburg, Durban, Bloemfontein, Pretoria and Johannesburg. There are four in Soweto, two in Boksburg and one each in Potchefstroom, Klerksdorp and Witrivier. Night classes are held in these centres from Mondays to Thursdays.

Various courses are offered at the centres. The first of the courses is the literacy course which extends over a course of 20 training weeks. Then there is a follow-up course—course No. 1—the literacy course in which the students are taught, inter alia, in a second language—either Afrikaans or English—elementary arithmetic and environmental studies. This takes them to about the Std. 2 level. A third course, or course No. 2, is of one year’s duration, or 40 training weeks, and this takes the students to about the Std. 4 level. Course No. 3 is also of a year’s duration and takes the students to the Std. 5 examination level. In this course conventional subjects are taken at the rate of one or more subjects a year. Course No. 4 is a preparation for the Form III examination. One or more subjects can be taken and credits in respect of subjects previously taken can be built up until the candidate has obtained the full Form III or Junior Certificate examination. Course No. 5 embraces the work of Form IV and V, and also serves as a preparation for the Form V examination or the National Senior Certificate or Matriculation examination. Subject credits are built up here too. The training period is shorter than in the case of normal schools and special study plans are accordingly designed. The teachers are all professionally qualified and the teachers of the literacy classes undergo a special training course. White teachers are only used if a Black teacher is not at all available.

Each centre has a control board elected by the centre’s own people and courses are controlled by the board. Control boards are composed representatively of all population groups. In addition there are also student liaison committees and, of course, the department’s knowledge, advice and assistance is available for adult education should those territories which are self-governing request it. This indicates briefly what has been done and what is happening at present in connection with adult education for the Bantu.

Mr. Chairman, on 27 October 1953 the late Dr. Verwoerd said the following during the opening of the General Council of the Ciskei—

During a debate in the Senate on 7 June 1954 Dr. Verwoerd also said the following in a declaration of policy (Senate Hansard, col. 2606)—

If we review the course of events today, we arrive at only one conclusion, namely that the NP, the late Dr. Verwoerd, the then Minister of Bantu Administration, the present hon. Minister of Bantu Administration and Development who succeeded him in this post and all his Deputy Ministers and officials who loyally supported him over the years, gave dramatic stature to the promise which Dr. Verwoerd made to the Black nations of South Africa on 27 October 1953.

To prove this, I would like to focus on education in the homelands. In the fatherlands of the Black nations, Bophuthatswana, Ciskei, Gazankulu, KwaZulu, Lebowa, Qwaqwa and Venda we today find seven full-fledged education departments. The Republic of Transkei, already an independent neighbour of South Africa, has its own full-fledged Department of Education. At the head of each of these departments of education, we today find a Black man as Minister of Education, supported by a host of Black professional office bearers. Only 17 White professional officers were promised to these departments of education. Under the direction of these departments 35 068 Black teachers are today educating 1 886 310 Black pupils. The total number of Black pupils who are attending school in South Africa, amounts to 3 319 520. The number of Black pupils in homeland schools is 1 886 310, while there are 1 433 210 Black children attending school in White areas. Thus we see that by far the most Black pupils are at present being educated in the homelands. If Transkei, which is already an independent Republic, is included in the abovementioned figures, we find that 63% of all Black pupils are being educated in their fatherland. That is indeed a unique achievement. However, the late Dr. Verwoerd also said the following in the Senate on 7 June 1954—

Let us look at the position of the Black teacher in the homelands today. We find that there is a total of 63 868 Bantu teachers in South Africa. In the homelands there are 36 068 Black teachers as against 28 000 Black teachers in the White areas. Thus we also see here that by far the most Black teachers are serving their own people today within their own fatherland and that the Black people in the service of education are today the builders and creators of an own future in their own fatherland. We find that 28 of the 35 Black teachers’ training schools are situated within the homelands, schools where still more men and women are being trained to render a service to their own community. Let us look at what the teaching profession in the homelands has brought forth over the years. If we look at the Department of Education in Bophuthatswana, we find 11 persons in the Ministry of this department who occupy the most senior positions. Only two are Whites. Only one of the nine Tswanas who hold office in this Ministry is not a graduate, while their chief education planner is a man with a doctor’s degree. The inspectorate of the Department of Education in Bophuthatswana consists of 15 Tswanas. Only three of them are not in possession of at least a B.A. degree. Let us look at the Department of Education of KwaZulu. The Ministry consists of 10 people who occupy the most senior posts. Four are Whites. The six Zulus in these posts are all graduates. The inspectorate of 22 Zulus have only two undergraduates. This Department of Education of KwaZulu today controls 1 087 educational institutions with 635 548 pupils and 11 847 teachers.

Four of the seven chief ministers’ careers ran through the educational and training profession of their own people to the high posts which they fill today. I refer to Mr. Phatudi, the chief minister of Lebowa who was an inspector of education, Mr. Mangope, the chief minister of Bophuthatswana who was a headmaster, Mr. Mopedi of Qwaqwa who was also an inspector of schools and Prof. Ntsanwisi of Gazankulu who was a professor at the University of the North. We see therefore that over the years the Bantu teacher was incorporated as an active factor in the development progress of the Bantu nations, after the policy statement made by Dr. Verwoerd on 7 June 1954 and that they are serving and developing their people today. To show that the office bearers and departments of education in the homelands attained great success this year, together with the Department of Bantu Education, I should like to quote from Bantu of March 1977, in which an article written by Dr. W. J. Breytenbach of the Africa Institute appeared. In it he said—

The comparative figure for Africa is only approximately 11%—

Mr. Chairman, while education in Africa deteriorated, the hon. member for Pinelands and also hon. members of the official Opposition admitted that there was progress under the guidance of the Department of Bantu Education and the homeland departments of education. I think we can today congratulate the hon. the Minister, the Deputy Minister of Bantu Administration and Education and officials who supported them over the years, with what they have done in regard to Bantu education to serve the Bantu nations of South Africa in that way. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Kuruman will forgive me if I do not reply to his speech, because in the short time at my disposal I want to return to the speeches of the hon. the Deputy Minister and the hon. member for Port Natal. The hon. the Deputy Minister quoted interesting information from the annual report. Much of it sounds impressive, but one must take into account the perspective in which it has to be seen. Let me give just one illustration. The hon. the Deputy Minister mentioned the increase of 54% in student numbers at secondary schools. But what he did not tell us, and what is in reality necessary to put matters in perspective, is that from 1975 the school system changed from a 13 year structure to a 12 year structure, and that Std. 6 has virtually fallen away, as a result of which the high schools suddenly had an artificial intake. In reality they had a double intake, if one wants to put it that way. So in 1974 there were more than 200 000 pupils in Std. 6 and also 210 000 in Std. 5. As a result, there was an enormous accumulation.

I should like to come back to the speech of the hon. member for Port Natal. Let me say to him at once that I was shocked to notice how selectively he quoted figures. I really did not expect that of him. It may be fitting for some of his colleagues to do it but I really did not expect it of him. In a most dramatic manner, with reference to the medium of education, he pointed out that there was not one scholar being educated through the medium of Afrikaans. Let us take a look at page 235 of the annual report. We must bear in mind that the hon. member for Port Natal knows as well as any of us that the dispute in regard to the medium of education did not actually refer to those schools where Afrikaans was exclusively the medium of education. It really concerned those schools which had been instructed to use both Afrikaans and English as medium of education.

A second point, which the hon. member also realizes is that this matter does not concern the homelands but in fact the White areas.

A third factor is that it has nothing to do with primary schools; it deals with secondary schools. If we look at this table, we see that the column which the hon. member should have taken into consideration is the column which gives particulars in regard to education in English and in Afrikaans. The figure is given there of 140 640 pupils in White areas who attended such schools. So it is another story altogether. If the hon. member had further analysed the figures in connection with secondary education, he would have seen that from Form I to Form V there was not one form where at least 50% of the number of pupils actually attending schools did not have both English and Afrikaans as a medium of education, and in some cases it was as high as 75%. I am sorry the hon. member did not give attention to that column on the same page which is really relevant.

The hon. the Minister also replied last night in regard to the regulations concerning the language medium. I also want to ask the hon. member, if it had nothing to do with the matter why was it changed so suddenly in June 1976? For example, I quoted last night from a letter I had received from a school inspector who stated what should be done. He said the school boards had to decide on this. If one looks at page 58 of the report, one sees it was decided in June that the school boards had to take the decision. It was decided in June—just as that school inspector had already suggested in November 1975—that there should be two extra lessons for certain subjects in certain areas. According to information given by the hon. the Minister last year in this House in reply to question 14 of 22 June 1976, it is very clear that instructions had already been issued in 1974 that certain subjects had to be taught through the medium of English and others through the medium of Afrikaans. In the same reply which was given to us last year we also find that the hon. the Deputy Minister admitted that as far back as January 1975 certain organizations had made representations to the hon. the Minister. That is our complaint in this regard. I do not want to spend more time on this specific aspect except to say that I hope the hon. the Deputy Minister will make use of this opportunity to enlighten us in regard to the tremendous harm that has been done, and what will happen in future. I accept the fact that the real victims of last year’s riots and of the senseless destruction of schools are in fact the scholars themselves. They will also have to realize that the behaviour of those persons who were behind it can only be described as diabolic. Although I am of the opinion that the hon. the Minister and the Government as well actually made things easier for the agitators and made it possible for them to gain success, one can of course never justify such behaviour. But what we can do, and what I believe we must do, is to pause and say to ourselves that we can understand why some people do certain things. We do not have to condone them and justify them. If certain factors are taken into account one can, for example, understand why there were people at the University of Zululand who set the university alight. If certain factors are taken into account this is understandable but it cannot be condoned. For example, it must be borne in mind that these people were told: “This is your own university, but because you have your own university, you must forfeit certain other rights and privileges. Because you have a university of your own, it is the only one in the country which you are entitled to attend. Even if you want to go to a non-White ethnic university you must first ask for permission. If you want to go to a White university, your chances are slim.”

Let us try to draw a comparison. Suppose we go to the Whites of the Free State and say to them: “You have got a university in the Free State. That is the only university to which you are entitled. If you want to go to the University of Stellenbosch just to play good rugby, you must first get permission from some authority.” What would the feeling be in respect of their own university which they have there? If hon. members do not realize that it is actually this sort of factor which is involved in the whole principle of teaching, and that it also gives rise to the sort of behaviour we experienced, there is no hope for our future. What really is at issue is how teaching is controlled in the country. A change of name will not help much. It is a great pity that the department is bringing down so much ill-feeling upon itself. I believe that there are a good many people in the department who really have only one end in view and that is the promotion of education for the Bantu. The share of the Bantu in his own education, as well as in the control thereof, is a process which must really be speeded up, and very quickly too. As long as the Bantu Education Vote is approved by this Parliament without the Bantu having any say in the decision-making, Bantu education will remain potentially problematical and it will be exploited by agitators. I wonder why the hon. the Minister and his deputies, in terms of their policy, cannot decide that Bantu education in certain parts of the Cape, for instance, in urban areas and in the Ciskei, should be controlled by the Ciskei education department. Why do they not institute a common control over Bantu education in the Transvaal by the various homelands? [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I think this afternoon’s discussion of Bantu education can be described as a parade of ex-ministers of religion, fortunately with a few Christians in their ranks. [Interjections.]

Many thanks!

Mr. Chairman, I included the hon. member for Pinelands only among the ex-ministers of religion. [Interjections.] I want to express my heartfelt thanks to hon. members who have taken part in this discussion, hon. members on both sides of the House. Hon. members on the other side had of course to look for points of criticism. They did in fact look for them and meant to find them. I want to give those hon. members the assurance that the interest in Bantu education and the attention which has been given to bottlenecks in Bantu education, are matters which are handled with far closer attention by this department itself and hon. members on this side of the House than by hon. members on the other side. Hon. members on the Government side showed a far greater measure of earnestness in this regard.

I do not think I am being unfair to any hon. member when I say that the contributions of hon. members on this side of the House—I refer for example to the hon. member for Port Natal, the hon. member for Rissik, the hon. member for Geduld, the hon. member for Middelburg, the hon. member for Virginia, the hon. member for Hercules, the hon. member for Maraisburg and the hon. member for Kuruman—were positive and sound contributions, contributions which testified to a penetrating study of the matter and an intense and positive interest.

As I have already said, I do not take it amiss of hon. members on the other side for raising certain points of criticism. It is those points I should like to deal with now.

I want to begin with the hon. member for Edenvale. Certain aspects raised by the hon. member have already been dealt with by other hon. members, and I should like to reply to others. In regard to the question of pre-school training, I want to point out that that is not the sort of education which falls under this department. The department does, however, offer a course for pre-school assistants. It is a course which is offered to four different institutions. Special courses for nursery school teachers are also offered. Although this is not a matter which is controlled by my department, we are already doing something in this regard. The hon. member for Virginia has, I think, replied effectively in regard to the training of teachers. I do not want to take this further, therefore, except to say that when we succeed in raising the number of aspirant teachers by 1 700 in one year, it is a considerable increase.

The hon. member also spoke of school-leaving, the drop-out rate. In this regard I think the hon. member got hold of two figures which confused him somewhat. With the changeover to the 12-year system and the abolition of Std. 6, it simply meant that pupils in Std. 5 and Std. 6 would be in the same class the following year. It is obvious that with a wave of this nature flowing virtually right through the secondary schools, there would be a decline both before and after the Std. 10 side of the wave. One must take that into account.

The hon. member also referred to the number of pupils per classroom. I think I dealt with this in my previous speech. It should be interesting to note that according to the latest figures we provided approximately 7 000 male and female teachers in one year, that is to say, 35 per school day throughout the year.

The hon. member also referred to the double sessions in the platoon system. I have already dealt with that. One must take this into account if one wants to calculate the number of pupils per teacher. One cannot simply calculate the number of pupils per classroom because the same teacher is on duty in the same classroom on the same day for two classes. So the number of pupils per teacher is considerably less.

The hon. member referred to the commencement of the system which has apparently been conceived and born in sin. I think the hon. member referred by implication to Dr. Verwoerd and what happened in his time. The hon. member did not spell out what he meant, but still I think—I do not know if this is what he meant—it was some kind of a taunt, and I just want to reply to that taunt. What did Dr. Verwoerd say in the debate at that time? The hon. member for Kuruman has already quoted a portion of the speech, and I should also like to quote a few sentences. It was a contentious speech and has also been quoted to the Cillié Commission. It is possible that this is what hon. members had in mind, and also that they want to cast suspicion on the system of Bantu education. Dr. Verwoerd spoke on 7 June 1954 in regard to the Black child and said (Senate Hansard col. 2619)—

That after all is separate development! But all doors are open within his own community. That was also the trend of the speech of the hon. the Prime Minister last Wednesday on the removal of discrimination. All doors are open to the non-Whites; we are opening those doors for them.

Within his own community!

Oh yes, within his own community.

Not outside?

If by “outside” the hon. member means my community, then I say “no”. Within his own community all doors are open, however, and therefore it will not profit him to have an education which has as its aim his assimilation into the White community when he cannot and will not be absorbed there. We are not talking now only of labour relations; we are talking of a society with a totality of structures and expressions. The hon. member has not yet grasped this little bit of worldly wisdom, viz. that a community does not consist only of labour relations, and if he does not know it now, at least he knew it 20 years ago! [Interjections.] Dr. Verwoerd went on to say (col. 2619)—

I could quote further from this very positive exposition by Dr. Verwoerd in relation to the aims and background of Bantu education but I shall leave it at that.

The hon. member also put a question on the subject of the standard of education and referred to Blacks who were excluded from the administration. The hon. member for Durban Central also referred to this. If I understand those hon. members aright, their arguments amount to this, that where Bantu education is at issue, Black people should occupy all the posts, even in this House. They therefore want a Black as Minister of Bantu Education in this House because Bantu education is discussed here. We differ on this, of course. It is one thing to give further consideration to fields in which one can give the Blacks a greater say—we are in fact thinking along these lines—so that White people need not be involved in matters which the Black people can deal with themselves; but it is another matter when one wants to draw a line right through, from the lowest social structure right through the second level of government to the first level of government, and include those people directly at all levels in the decision-making processes. That is another matter altogether.

They do it for the White man.

The hon. member referred to a few Black inspectors, but I think the hon. member suffers from a tendency to minimize the facts. The position is that at the moment there are 164 Black inspectors of schools. That is really a considerable number. In addition Blacks serve on the examination board, on subject committees and on book committees. The Education Advisory Board and six sub-committees consist entirely of Blacks. The hon. member referred to school boards and school committees, but at the same time he rather brushed them aside with his left hand as if they were of lesser importance. The school boards and the schools committees consist of Black people and all along the line—throughout the Republic—more than 50 000 Black people are involved in this way in the education of their own children.

The hon. member also referred to scholars older than 18 years of age. I do not know if that hon. member is advocating that the department should forbid these children to go to school. A few years ago, when many of our people did not have opportunities either, there were quite a few of us who were rather old at school, and it was no shame. It went hand in hand with certain socio-economic circumstances. There are certain socio-economic as well as personal circumstances outside the control of Bantu education which have resulted in people of a more advanced age still being in the classrooms.

The hon. member also referred to pupils who were actually at homeland schools. There are certain problems attached to this situation. It is naturally our desire, and our policy, to have and to make secondary education homeland oriented as far as possible. The positive approach is that one would like to educate the children of a particular nation within the community to which they belong, and to cultivate in them a love for their own people and for their own land, and that one does not want to rob a nation of its developing talent. That is why we prefer secondary pupils in particular to be educated in the homelands. But this is a matter that is being investigated. We are looking at the requirements, and where there is no choice we make concessions. The broad policy, however, is homeland-oriented secondary education.

The hon. member tried to get a dig in at the Afrikaner with regard to the language medium. The position is however that our approach in every case is based on mother-tongue education. If there was one thing for which the Afrikaner strove—this was part of his whole struggle—it was acknowledgment of his national dignity, and with this his own culture, and included in his own culture, his own language. That is also the basic policy with regard to Bantu education, viz, that as far as possible a child should be educated in his own mother-tongue, in secondary education as well. There are of course problems, concerning scientific terms, for example, which make it difficult to offer certain subjects in a Bantu language immediately. But the ideal is that where it is possible to offer a subject in the mother-tongue, it should be done. Where this is not possible, the basic approach is to use the two official languages of the country. I do not know whether it is necessary to go into this any further. I think I have already spent a reasonably long time on the arguments of the hon. member for Eden-vale.

I want to come now to the arguments of the hon. member for Pietermaritzburg North. I said we had had a parade of ex-ministers of religion and certain Christians in this debate. I do not want to say that I make an exception in this case, but this brother really makes it difficult for me. [Interjections.] At the request of the Opposition it was arranged that a group of Opposition members would visit schools in the residential areas in the Peninsula to view the damage that had been done to the schools. They were accompanied by the relevant area inspector. I am sorry that the only conclusion or impression the visit left with the hon. member was a negative one. The hon. member only saw the fire-blackened walls and wanted to know why the damage had not already been repaired the next day. Really, I find the hon. member’s approach very negative. He spoke of fire-blackened walls and broken windows as though this was the general state of the schools. It could surely have been expected of the hon. member that as a responsible person he would have voiced his displeasure at the acts of vandalism that had been committed. But that is a note which we missed right through the discussion. The hon. member for Durban North said a very necessary thing, and it is also necessary that it should have come from that side of the House. We do not want to deal with political opportunism here. One should not just say vaguely that it really was not a nice thing that the riots took place and that there was arson and murder, and at the same time to say: “Now you really must hurry up and bring about changes, otherwise we will have a second round of the same thing.” We must not practice this sort of political opportunism.

†The hon. member referred to needlework. Perhaps it is indicative of the hon. member’s attitude that he referred to the expenditure in this respect and to the small subsidy which schools receive from the department. Either intentionally or unintentionally the hon. member ignores the fact that it is expected of children under the control of departments other than the Department of Bantu Education, to buy certain materials for the same purpose. These schools are even expected to sell the finished articles, and the money is used for buying other articles. The moneys received accrue to the school fund and are used to buy new supplies. I think it is worthwhile saying that the subsidy paid by the department is calculated to cover 50% of the overall cost. This subsidy has been increased considerably this year.

The hon. member also referred to what he called “the no-pay study leave.” The hon. member stated that no study leave was given to teachers. I would strongly recommend to the hon. member that he should study the conditions of service before making sweeping statements like that in the House. Regulation 13 of Government Notice R1289 of 17 August 1962, as amended, specifically makes provision for study leave. The conditions of service of Black teachers are exactly the same as those of their White counterparts.

The hon. member also referred to books which are supplied to be inadequate and out-dated. I regard the hon. member’s remark as rather scandalous. Particulars about the crash programme to supply text books have been given repeatedly and I have repeated it this afternoon. Principals are expected to choose their own text-books when the requisitions are submitted to the department, and no out-dated books appear on this list. I think the hon. member must revise his remark.

*The hon. member also referred to expenditure and although I do not say that he spoke untruths, he was nevertheless guilty of some serious errors regarding the facts. It was of course, an attempt to bring the Government into discredit and to try to cause dissatisfaction. What are the facts? He alleges: “In fact the budget has been cut by 55%. ” The total amount voted last year for ordinary education was R65 million. This amount has been increased this year to R80 320 000, and that represents an increase of approximately 23%. So I think the hon. member’s arithmetic is a bit confused.

Does that include the training of teachers?

I would prefer it if the hon. member would give me a chance to finish, because there are hon. members who are waiting for the debate to be concluded. The hon. member and I can have a discussion later, like two Christians together.

The hon. member for Pinelands asked a number of questions and again referred to strikes at the schools and the question of whether Afrikaans was the cause or not. I want to make a few assertions in this regard for the information of the hon. member. The first is that the first strikes had absolutely nothing to do with Afrikaans. I have so much information at my disposal that I would try the hon. member’s patience if I made use of everything. However, let me give the hon. member a few facts for consideration and cogitation. I refer to an incident at the Naledi High School in Soweto when Lt. Bekker and a Bantu member of the Security Police in Soweto went to the school to fetch one Enos Ngutshana, 20 years old in Std. 9, to take him to the security office in Soweto for questioning in regard to certain activities. This was normal procedure on the part of the police. The pupil was taken to the principal’s office and informed that he had to accompany the police. He was rebellious but was given the opportunity to get his case from the classroom. The office in which Lt. Bekker was waiting was then attacked and stoned. The telephone wire to the office was cut and Lt. Bekker’s vehicle, a Volkswagen, was overturned and set alight. The vehicle was burnt out. It would seem to me as though this was an organized group of people who knew precisely what they wanted to do and had to do at any given moment. They knew precisely that they had to cut the telephone wire and that they had to overturn the vehicle and set it alight. That had nothing to do with Afrikaans!

I want to refer to another incident. At one stage there was a strike at a few schools. The strike occurred because three principals had been dismissed by their own school board. Pressure was then brought to bear from outside, from a homeland, to reinstate these people in their posts. They yielded to this pressure, but in the meantime the children at those schools went on strike and the strikes were an exercise for what was still to come. In that case too the strike and the riots that accompanied it had nothing to do with Afrikaans. I also have other information here, and if the hon. member for Pinelands is interested, I can give it to him. In view of the time factor I do not want to elaborate on it any further now. There is a slight possibility—perhaps not so slight—that the hon. member knows more about these activities than I do! The hon. member also asked: “If Afrikaans was not an issue, why was the regulation changed so quickly?” Let me put the matter this way. Since 1955 the policy has been for the two official languages to be taught alongside the mother-tongue in the schools. Teachers who were not proficient in either English and Afrikaans were given five years to comply with this requirement. In 1959 a regulation was issued in which those concerned were reminded that what is at present the practice would come into operation in 1960. This was laid down because bilingualism is accepted as the norm in the Public Service. But that is not the whole story. During this whole period it was accepted that there were teachers who were not equally proficient in both languages and that text books for specific subjects were not available in a specific language. As a result of this the policy was applied so accommodatingly over the years that it was not made compulsory on a 50:50 basis. Inquiries were made at the schools during the ’seventies and a vote indicated that 63% of the schools preferred a 50:50 basis. I think there were 5% who preferred Afrikaans. The rest preferred English. That was the approach then. We then decided to keep that 50:50 basis, but to apply it in such a manner that if a school did not have the necessary teachers or textbooks, it could apply to be released from the obligation. That was the position throughout. When we had discussions with Soweto leaders—I accompanied the hon. the Minister of Bantu Administration and Development—and we heard what the people there had to say, it became apparent, also from the discussions which the Secretary for Bantu Education had with some of these leaders, that these people were labouring under the colossal misapprehension that Afrikaans was as compulsory as English, and that no exceptions would be made.

The hon. the Minister, who handled the matter very neatly, can testify to the fact that that morning I told those Black people they and their people were labouring under a great and disturbing misunderstanding. They then said: “Yes, it was a grave misunderstanding as to the real policy.” But these matters did not end at a school which objected to Afrikaans as the language medium for a certain subject. Where in fact there was a teacher who could teach a certain subject in Afrikaans and so their application was not granted, the matter did not end there. Some of those people even came to Pretoria to talk to the Department of Bantu Education, and we listened to these people. But we felt that there should at least be some sort of order.

I want to come now to a certain press report, to which the hon. member referred, in regard to what I ostensibly said on the day of the riots when I was in Windhoek. I want to put the matter quite definitely here. If I had intimated that they had to accept Afrikaans because we were in power, once and for all—and that is not the approach—it would have been wrong. It is not our policy to force our language down other people’s throats. What those hon. members forget is that in the same breath in which I said that this Government was in power and legally determined the pattern of affairs in South Africa, I also said that other people, all along the line, were free to apply for exemption. This had been done to such an extent that we had the position in Soweto of 95% English and 5% Afrikaans. That is the situation. But it is another matter when pupils seek to dictate to the country as if they were ruling South Africa. That cannot be tolerated. I just want to refer hon. members here once again to the firm stand our hon. Prime Minister took last year when he said that the disturbances had to end. One cannot allow a country to be governed by people who act unlawfully. There is an orderly way of doing things.

There are various other matters to which I still want to reply. The hon. member referred to a so-called “new deal”. I have sketched the history in regard to this language question. While the schools in each case were free to apply for exemption, and in practice actually decided to use either the one or the other language, we said: “All right; let us have it on paper then that in consultation with its school board the school has decided on the medium of education. All they have to do is report to our office so that this can be done in an orderly fashion.”

That is exactly what we asked for. We asked for it two months before then and we were told “no”.

The reply was not “no”. The reply was as I have just spelt it out here. That is the department’s policy.

I would rather not reply to the hon. member’s reference to our perhaps seeing each other somewhere afterwards. The hon. member for Berea referred to the question of adult education. I just want to say that centres for adult education can be established at the hostels. It is already the case at mine hostels. The centre at St. Anthony falls within an industrial area. The hon. member can give us acceptable suggestions.

Mr. Chairman, I think it is time that I concluded. If there are still questions to be attended to, I am prepared to answer them in writing. I want to finish with a heartfelt word of thanks to all the hon. members who participated in the debate.

Votes agreed to.

Chairman directed to report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Mr. Speaker, I move—

As you know, the development of the homelands in the economic sphere in respect of all matters in the whole of the Republic, with the exception of the Ciskei and South West Africa, has been under the control of the Bantu Investment Corporation. The Bantu Mining Corporation, on the other hand, controlled all mining matters in the homelands of the Republic and South West Africa.

During the past 18 months development corporations have been established on a national basis in each of the existing homelands for which legislative assemblies were established, with the exception of KwaZulu.

The national development corporations were established to make it possible to work on a more concentrated basis within a particular homeland and so that the economy of such a homeland could also develop its own character, regard being had to the supply of raw materials and the human potential of each national group.

Half of the members of the board of directors of each of the national development corporations are consequently nominated by the homeland Government in question, and these directors are in most cases Black people.

The aforesaid national development corporations have taken over many of the functions of the Bantu Investment Corporation.

For the sake of completeness I must also mention that a national development corporation has also been established in respect of the Ciskei, where the Xhosa Development Corporation undertook the economic development, a corporation which in turn has to a large extent taken over the functions of the XDC. Owing to the changes in the organization of the corporations it is now necessary to effect further organizational changes in order to complete the process.

As was foreseen, the large number of corporations which now exist has made it necessary for co-ordination to be effected, for example to prevent money being wasted as a result of unnecessary duplication. It will not be profitable for each one of the corporations to build up its own organization of specialists, covering the entire spectrum of economic development, and consequently it is being planned to establish a body which will have a specialist organization and from which individual corporations will be able to obtain advice.

Just as the Public Service of the Republic makes officials available to homelands for the performance of functions for which citizens are not available, the latter organization will also, within its means, place members of its staff at the disposal of national development corporations.

Apart from the advisory function and the function of providing staff, the body will act in a co-ordinating capacity in respect of various corporations and will also undertake financing by means of shareholding.

Mr. Speaker, I should now like to explain the Bill briefly.

Clause 1(a):

The definition of the words “Bantu company” is being amended so that there will be no impediment to the forming of companies in which Whites hold shares.

Clauses 1(b) and (2):

The name of the investment corporation is being changed to Corporation for Economic Development, Limited.

Clause 3:

Until now the Bantu Investment Corporation was involved in the direct development of the homeland economies. In future the Corporation for Economic Development will, however, also seek to develop the economy by means of development corporations and corporations, for example by providing funds and advice.

Clause 4:

At present the Act restricts certain of the powers to Bantu, and these restrictions are now eliminated so that there can be greater freedom in seeking to attain the objects.

Clause 5:

As has already been mentioned, a reorganization of corporations took place and with such reorganization there was also a reshuffle of functions and duties. As a result of this process it may be desirable to change the names of certain corporations or even to dissolve them, and the amendment seeks to make such actions possible.

†Clauses 6 and 7:

The amendment provides for a clear division of functions, but the amendment is so worded that it also provides for the eventuality where a joint project is undertaken.

Clause 8:

The national development corporation took over some of the functions of the investment corporation and the development corporation, and as a result some of the assets of the abovementioned corporations will also be so transferred. The transfer of assets may result in a reduction of share capital and the amendment provides therefor.

Clauses 9 and 10:

The amendments only correct the references to the Companies Act.

Clause 11:

Contains the short title.

I hope the aims and implications of the Bill have been adequately explained and that there will be general agreement on it.

Mr. Speaker, I have listened with interest to the hon. the Deputy Minister’s introduction of this measure and I think that, before one looks at the amendment, it is instructive to look briefly at the structure of the existing Act. There are three levels of operation. There is what at this moment is called the Bantu Investment Corporation, which is a sort of umbrella body, dealing principally with large-scale planning and direction of affairs. Then there are two levels of corporations. There is the development corporation which, as the hon. the Deputy Minister has said, tends now to operate at the regional level, and there is the corporation itself, at what one might call the third level, which engages upon specific projects in the various homelands. As the hon. the Deputy Minister has said, it is proposed to change the name of the central body to the Corporation for Economic Development, Limited, and as the hon. the Deputy Minister has indicated, there are various clauses in the Bill which make for greater flexibility in the operation of these various bodies, particularly in so far as the introduction of non-Bantu capital and interest is concerned—I am referring to business interests—and also to widen the scope of operation of the various bodies, particularly at the lower level where there is a change of definition of the term “Bantu company”. Until the introduction of this Bill a Bantu company had to be a company in which all the shares were held by Bantu persons. The significant change now is that it is still a Bantu company, provided the majority of its shares are held by Bantu persons. Where it is an association other than a company, Bantu persons or Bantu corporations are entitled to more than half of its profits or assets. That is the principal change brought about by clause 1 of this Bill. That, however, is to be read in conjunction with clause 4 which is an amendment of the existing section 4 of the principal Act dealing with the powers of the central body, a body which is now to be called The Corporation for Economic Development.

It is instructive to look at the changes that are being made in that respect. This deals with a variety of functions and powers. It defines, in fact, in section 4 of the principal Act, what the Corporation for Economic Development, Limited, can do. I just want to name some of the aspects. It can establish industrial, commercial and financial undertakings. It can assist with the establishment of such undertakings. It can establish, or assist in establishing, companies for industrial, commercial and mining business purposes in the Bantu homelands. It can guarantee or underwrite the issue of any loan, stock or debentures for those purposes. It can guarantee contracts of any person and it can purchase movable property and securities.

In every one of those respects, in the law as it stands, the necessary power can be used in respect of persons who are Bantu, or Bantu companies. However, in every case—in terms of this Bill—the amendment deletes the reference to Bantu or Bantu persons, and this means that all these powers, of which I have given a brief indication, can be exercised in respect of institutions, undertakings and persons other than Bantu persons, etc.

There are further amendments in respect of clause 4, amendments of a similar kind. When it comes to assuming powers of trustee or executor, when it comes to lending money, with or without security, for the purposes of advancing the interests of a business or acting as an agent for, or on behalf of, a person, here again in every case the reference to the necessity for the person concerned to be a Bantu is deleted.

I think I have said enough in respect of those clauses to indicate how much wider it is anticipated that these various corporations will operate, and the extent to which non-Bantu interests, non-Bantu capital and the control of non-Bantu affairs in the homelands is being introduced. This is a welcome change, because hon. members in these benches have for years indicated their belief that proper economic development of the homelands, even by means of corporations such as we are dealing with here, can only be fully implemented by the introduction of non-Bantu capital and through the medium of private enterprise companies which are not controlled by a public utility such as this. I may say that for that reason we shall give this Bill our support at Second Reading.

One has some difficulty, however, in respect of two clauses. The first is clause 5, which I shall deal with more fully during the Committee Stage. However, it does seem inappropriate that the State President should, by a mere proclamation, have the power which is sought to be given to him to change the name of the central body, the Corporation for Economic Development, Limited, and after consultation with that body any other corporation, be it a development corporation or a simple corporation, and to have the power, by similar means, to dissolve development corporations or an ordinary corporation simply by a proclamation in the Gazette. It is clear from what the hon. the Minister has said, and from the scope of the principal Act, that a development corporation can be a considerable body with wide interests and wide influences. I have doubts as to whether the correct way of dissolving a body of that kind is simply by a gazetted notice under the signature of the State President. The second clause with which one has some difficulty is clause 7, because it is not clear to me what is intended here. Clause 7 introduces a subsection to substitute subsection (2) of section 7 of the principal Act which reads—

By definition a corporation is a body which deals with a specific undertaking at the lowest level. The corporation can be given, in order to exercise its powers, some of the powers set out in section 4(1). Then the amendment also suggests the following—

Those are the powers referred to in section 4(1)—

However, the corporation has not been established for a portion of the homeland. It has been established for a specific undertaking, and I wonder whether the intention here is not that the other two upper bodies will not exercise the powers that have been given to the lowest body in section 4 in respect of its undertaking or its sphere of activities, rather than in that portion of the homelands in respect of which such corporation has been established.

Is that not the implication?

Well, it does not seem to me to achieve whatever is intended. There are two concepts that one is dealing with. One is dealing, in the first instance, with a corporation which does not deal with an area of the homeland; it deals with an undertaking, for example a clothing factory.

Or a mining corporation.

Or a mining corporation which deals with a mine in a specific place, but primarily it is an undertaking. The powers that one says one is not going to allow the two upper levels of the corporations to exercise, because they have already been given to the two lower levels of the corporations, are the powers in respect of a geographical area. With respect, if it is a factory or a mine it would be more appropriate to decide not to duplicate and to prevent the two upper levels from exercising those powers which have been delegated to the operative corporation in respect of its undertaking, rather than in respect of a geographical area. For the rest, I agree with the views expressed by the hon. the Minister that clauses 9 and 10 hang together and are amendments which are rather consequential, up-dating the Companies Act and matters of that kind. I also agree with the desirability of the power in clause 8 to reduce the capital of, what one may call, the holding corporations.

Having said that I wish to repeat that we shall give this Bill our support at Second Reading. In the Committee Stage I shall go deeper into the two clauses which I have mentioned.

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member who has just resumed his seat, made a very balanced contribution in regard to the legislation. This Bill definitely deserves to be welcomed by everyone without any misgivings. It is a new milestone in the history of the development of the Bantu homelands. I want to say how pleased I am that the hon. member made it clear in such a balanced way that they, too, had taken cognizance of this Bill and that they had been pleasantly surprised by its scope.

I do not want to spell out in detail what every clause of the Bill envisages. The hon. the Deputy Minister has already done so. The few points of criticism raised by the hon. member are very technical and I shall leave it to the hon. the Deputy Minister to react to them. They are, in fact, of minor importance.

The fact is that of the most important amendments in this Bill are those converting the Bantu Investment Corporation into the Corporation for Economic Development, which is to act as an umbrella body in a co-ordinating capacity as regards all the other national corporations or corporations established under it, and which will be able to render assistance in the form of skill, capital and advice. This is very important. It is also co-ordinating in the sense that it may delimit the areas of certain corporations in order to prevent overlapping and therefore wastage.

The most important change is perhaps the fact that non-Black people will now be given an opportunity in a junior capacity—if I may put it that way—to use their skills and capital for the development of the homelands. There was a stage when it was not desirable to allow these things because it was feared that such opportunities might be abused. However, we have now reached the stage in the general development of the Bantu homelands and of South Africa where we can afford to make the skills and capital of the Whites available to the homelands as well for their further development.

Now I want to give a short review of a few sectors to which it is very important to apply these new amendments. Firstly, the homelands have great agricultural potential. Seventy-six per cent of the homelands receive more than 500 mm of rain per annum as against the mere 35% of the White areas. The agricultural potential of the homelands if 23% of the total potential of the Republic of South Africa, but at the moment they produce only 5,8% of the aggregate agricultural production. The proposed legislation creates the instruments for ensuring major changes and progress in this sphere too. Black agriculture is still far too subsistence-orientated at this stage. Bringing about improvement in this sphere is largely a sociological problem.

However, scholastic development can also make a large contribution. A great deal is being done by the Government in this respect. There are already five training centres and 1 008 extension officers active in the homelands. The corporations which are made possible by the proposed legislation, will now play a very useful role by making capital and knowledge, that of the Whites too, available to the agricultural industry of the Bantu homelands.

A great deal has already been done in developing the homelands—I do not want to go into this in detail—as regards irrigation schemes, etc. The co-operative undertakings have already shown fine results on a secondary level, and are probably adjusted to the Black man’s traditional concept of communal property. As regards agriculture, the homelands have shown a constant growth of 3,1% over the years, in sharp contrast to a constant decrease of as much as 5% in most Africa States, as far as their agricultural production is concerned. Project farming on a cooperative basis also shows great promise in the homelands, and in this way the Black people are being taught to convert their inclination for subsistence farming into an orientation towards agricultural marketing. Mining also holds great possibilities for some of the homelands. For instance, there were as many as 26 mines employing 67 767 Black workers in Bophuthatswana in 1975. According to the new dispensation which is being created by the amending legislation, a great deal of development can be generated with the aid of the skills and capital of the White man. As in the case of the Whites, increasing urbanization is also the order of the day for the Blacks. In 1970 only 526 000 people were settled in the urban areas of the Bantu homelands. By 1975 their numbers had already increased to 973 000. This is almost a million. This implies major industrial development so as to employ all these people.

The existing dispensation, which is being created by the new amending legislation, makes it possible for work to be provided in the homelands. For instance, there were 60 factories in Babalegi in 1970. At the moment there are more than 100 factories with 10 000 workers, whereas only 6 000 workers were employed previously. In 1964 only four loans totalling R70 000 had been granted to prospective entrepreneurs, and by 1975 as many as 2 492 loans totalling R21 million had been granted. In 1961 there were 3 900 Black traders in the homelands, and in 1976 there were as many as 9 000. This is dramatic progress indeed. The IDC has already invested more than R200 million in border industries. The BIC has already invested R81,3 million in the Ciskei. The per capita income of the Bantu homelands has increased from R57 per capita in 1961 to R175 per capita at the present time. This compares favourably with the per capita income of most Africa States. I shall briefly mention the per capita income of a few Africa States: Somalia R60; Lesotho R70; Malawi R75 and Tanzania R94.

The important fact is that there are 100 000 new work-seekers in the Bantu homelands every year, of whom only 65 000 can be employed within the homelands and in the border industries at the present time. As I have already said, industrial development in the homelands must be stimulated to the greatest possible extent, so as to make it possible to provide employment to all the people there. It is my considered opinion that this piece of legislation, in terms of which the capital and skills of the Whites are allowed to be used in the homelands too, with a view to achieving the ideal of employing all the Black people within the homelands, is legislation which deserves support. Over the years it has been the policy of the Government to achieve this particular ideal as far as possible, the ideal to find employment in the homelands for every new work-seeker inside or outside the homelands. I want to repeat how pleased I am because the Opposition has accepted the legislation in such a fine spirit. I also give it my very enthusiastic support.

Mr. Speaker, I have been listening very attentively to the speech of the hon. member for Sasolburg and I have also noted with appreciation what has been achieved with regard to the development of the Bantu homelands. I agree with the hon. member that all possible means are to be utilized to stimulate that development still further. The comparison he drew with other countries in Africa I leave at that. We have said on more than one occasion that such a comparison is essentially invalid in South Africa. Like the hon. member for Umhlatuzana I want to welcome this Bill wholeheartedly. I think it is an important Bill, because it is in point of fact the completion of a process that started with the passing of the Investment Corporations Act in 1959.

Hon. members will remember that that legislation in fact made no provision for a development body. Initially it was purely and simply an investment corporation. It was only in 1968, with the passing of the Promotion of the Economic Development of Bantu Homelands Act that the functions of the BIC were extended to include the undertaking of actual development projects. In 1976 the pattern developed that is being finalized in the Bill before this House. Even though it is happening at a very late stage, I nevertheless welcome the fact that the recommendations of the Tomlinson Report are being implemented. Actually it is astonishing to compare this Bill after all these years to the recommendations of the Tomlinson Commission. I quote from paragraph 23 on page 188 of the summary of the report (U.G. 61—’55)—

The commission said that the use of White capital for the development of the homelands would not be sufficient, hence the following recommendation—

We have not reached that yet, but maybe we shall.

I quote the following from paragraph 24—

What we have in the form of the development corporations may be compared to the subsidiary to which the Tomlinson Commission referred—

The commission also envisaged the establishment by the corporation of a regional corporation for every Bantu region at some later stage. In other words, the basic pattern we find in this Bill and in earlier legislation, is in fact aimed at giving effect to the recommendations of the Tomlinson Commission.

However, I also welcome the Bill from a more philosophical point of view. In this House it so often happens that the impression is given that we are dealing with irreconcilable contradictions, with policies and principles which are in point of fact so far removed from one another that it is impossible ever to find common grounds. Very often arguments are advanced here, especially by hon. members on the opposite side, which create the impression that there is certainty about policies and that those policies will never be deviated from. For that reason it is a pleasure for me to be able to say, where we are now discussing a Bill that makes provision for allowing White capital and White initiative into the homelands, as pointed out by the hon. member and the hon. the Deputy Minister, that there is still hope for our nation. Whereas it was stated relentlessly and implacably before that White capital would never under any circumstances be allowed for the development of Bantu homelands, we have progressed so far that today we have a Bill before this House that will in fact render this possible. I am very grateful for this change and I happen to have here the speech made by the then Deputy Minister of Bantu Administration and Development in this House when the Bill providing for the establishment of the Bantu Investment Corporation was before this House in 1955. I want to quote from his speech just to tell hon. members that I am grateful for the fact that we are able in spite of the apparent implacability and stubbornness to make progress. The then hon. the Deputy Minister said the following in connection with a motion of Mr. Waterson (Hansard, 4 February 1959, col. 408)—

Here he was referring to Mr. De Wet Nel who was the Minister at that time—

Those were his words.

He continued in this vein and went on to say—

And so he continued.

Who was that Deputy Minister?

He said (Hansard, 1959, Vol. 99, col. 409)—

Who was the Deputy Minister? [Interjections.]

I plead ignorance. I do not know who that Deputy Minister was. [Interjections.] However, the quotation comes from Hansard, 1959, Vol. 99, col. 408 and 409. I must say that I am not quoting this out of spite, although one could have done so if one wished. I am quoting this, in view of the strong contradictions which sometimes exist in this House, in order to illustrate that things we proclaim as being gospel today, may prove to be wrong tomorrow.

Mr. Speaker, we are glad that the hon. member for Edenvale also gets philosophical enjoyment out of supporting this Bill. Of course, he is now going back many years. Presumably he also called other days to mind, days when he was, with Sabra, etc., where he also expressed other ideas. However, we are grateful that the hon. member for Edenvale also supports the Bill. As the hon. the Deputy Minister and other speakers said, this is a very important Bill. It definitely gives greater meaning to the present dispensation. The economic development in a homeland is not only a prerequisite for the success of that particular homeland. It is definitely also a prerequisite for a favourable economic future of all the peoples in our country. Hon. members will recall that prior to 1960, there was virtually only maintenance production in most of the homelands. That was the only economic activity that existed. People seeking employment went to the White areas to find a livelihood there. In the sixties, more vigorous economic activity took place, although it was not on a very large scale at that time. Examples were the rehabilitation of land, agricultural planning, township development on a small scale and then, too, very important in the sixties, the establishment of these development corporations and the stimulation of the commercial activities in the homelands. However, it has been since 1970 in particular that the economic development in the homelands really got into its stride. Today we see positive action in the homelands. Thanks to the participation of the homeland authorities, the inhabitants of the homelands, the corporations and the White entrepreneurs, we no longer have merely a subsistence economy. Now we also find that agriculture is being stimulated with a view to increased production, something which was not really thought about much before. The mining potential is being ascertained and developed. Industrial development is taking place by involving White entrepreneurs. The commercial and service sectors are being expanded, towns are being established, workers are being trained and transport services are being expanded. If one looks at the latest report of the BIC, one forms a clear impression of the significant and balanced contribution the corporations have made during the past few years to the economic developments in the homelands.

The hon. member for Sasolburg quoted statistics with regard to the agricultural potential, and in this connection I want to refer to just one of the corporation’s activities. Several farms that became homeland areas as a result of consolidation have been placed under the administration of the corporation and these farms are now being used as agricultural growth points in the homelands. During the debate on consolidation there was grave concern about the White farms that were to be handled by non-experts. Here the corporation stepped in and achieved a great deal of success. Recently the S.A. Oorsig showed how a team of experts was training local Black people to take over and manage farms that formerly belonged to Whites. In 1975 the agricultural section of the Bantu Investment Corporation took over the properties, and it now operates these farms as a single unit with maximum Black participation. Other primary objectives are the creating of job opportunities, which means that excessive mechanization did not take place, and the training of Black workers. The result, 18 months later, is beautiful cotton and tobacco fields, excellent beef and dairy cattle, a large and growing pig farming industry, improved citrus and yellow peach orchards and sultana vineyards. There is also potential for further development. The number of Black workers increased in the period of 18 months from a few hundred to 2 400 and the number of jobs is expected to rise to 3 500 with cash wages of R1 million. It is projects like these that are of great importance for the development of our homelands. I may point out, for interest’s sake, that the Bantu Development Corporation, as it is known today, has found that apart from the social benefits the project has brought to the area, there is another reason why the BIC promotes agricultural projects, and that is because it costs R960 to create a job opportunity in agriculture as against R2 000 in the industrial sector.

Despite the world-wide phenomenon of a drop in economic activities, the corporation is still making good progress with the establishing of industries in the homelands. In the latest annual report of the BIC we see this once again. This year the BIC is spending R34 million on industrial establishment. That is equivalent to the total expenditure during the development programme of the previous six years.

Let me mention a few other facts which might be less well-known. As a result of the poor representation of Black people in the manufacturing sector, the corporation recently tackled a scheme to make factory space available to Black manufacturers at a nominal rental. One of these units, accommodating seven Swazi industrialists is at present in production. Another seven are in the process of construction. The establishment of these small industries comprises a scheme in accordance with which Black entrepreneurs with limited capital will be able to establish their own manufacturing concerns. Buildings which can be divided into several production areas of varying sizes have been constructed. This is being controlled by an official of the corporation who has the necessary skill as far as factory management is concerned. This official gives advice, leadership and management training to Black manufacturers with regard to financial control, the purchase of raw materials, production and marketing. The corporation purchases raw materials and keeps them in stock until such time as the manufacturer needs it.

Order! The hon. member’s speech is very interesting, but he should not discuss the administration of the principal Act in too much detail.

I shall take note of that, Mr. Speaker.

Naturally there are bottlenecks and this Bill seeks to remove them. The major bottleneck is to establish industries in the homelands and to get White entrepreneurs there. Let us look at Isithebe. This is an area that covers 107 ha in KwaZulu and that area is fully occupied. At the moment another expansion of 200 ha for industrial establishment is taking place. I believe that the overall impact of this Bill will facilitate the activities of the corporations and will in fact enable them to attract industrialists to those areas to an increasing extent.

The establishment of commercial facilities in the homelands will also be facilitated by the provisions of this Bill. One method is to enter into an agreement on a tripartite basis according to which a skilful White entrepreneur will have the opportunity, as I understand it, to carry on a business in collaboration with a development corporation for a limited period of 10 to 15 years for the purpose of teaching skills to the Black people. Several contracts of this nature have already been concluded.

Under all these circumstances, and because the Bill we are considering will undoubtedly afford the objectives of the corporations a far greater impact, I gladly support the Bill.

Mr. Speaker, I was very interested indeed to see the contents of this Bill when it was published. It is obvious from the amendments that are being introduced that the Government is more and more coming round to the original recommendations contained in the Tomlinson Commission’s report. One of those was a strong recommendation for the employment of what was termed European as well as Government entrepreneurs. At the time, that recommendation was one of the important recommendations that were rejected by the Government.

The other important one, to my mind, is the whole question of individual land tenure in the Bantustans. Since then the Government has staggered along towards the original recommendations regarding White capital investment. It has done so, first of all, by allowing White capital into the homelands on an agency basis, and of course it is now going a step further by allowing further investment by persons other than Bantu persons in the Bantustans. We are not going to oppose this Bill. When the original measure was introduced, i.e. the 1968 Act, I supported the amendment which was introduced by the official Opposition, namely to send the Bill to a Select Committee. One of the reasons given at the time was that the methods of investment, etc., were not satisfactory, as introduced by the original Bill, and therefore it would be better to see if some improvement could be effected by sending the Bill to a Select Committee. I believe this to be an improvement on the existing system and therefore we in these benches are not going to oppose the Bill.

We believe in the development of underdeveloped areas which, with the best will in the world, is the only way one can describe the existing homelands. We agree with the principle of decentralization on an economic basis, but not as an ideological objective. This is perhaps where we differ from the Government in principle. I cannot go into that in any great detail at the moment as that involves the principal Act. In so far as this Bill—to my mind anyway, and I speak on behalf of my colleagues—does represent a step in the right direction and does recognize that it is necessary for the Government to allow further investment of White capital and entrepreneural skills, we shall not oppose this Bill.

Mr. Speaker, the IUP will not oppose the legislation either, for the simple reason that it is, in the first place, a considerable improvement and, in the second place, because it will be a considerable stimulant for the Bantu homeland areas in the long run. If there was anything which I think worried most of us over the years, it was the very lack of large-scale economic development in these areas. As a result of this we also had the situation of the Black person becoming more and more dependent on the White areas for employment. The absorptive power in his own area was inadequate to allow him to remain there. This legislation comes at the very stage when all of us can welcome it, because we have a great number of Black people today who do not have enough work, not only in the homelands, but also in other areas. The spectre of unemployment is already present and may become much bigger in a time of economic recession. If this Corporation for Economic Development, by ensuring that White capital and White skill can be used to a greater extent in the homelands, can prevent unemployment on a large scale in South Africa, it is to be welcomed, apart from the fact that we have the normal increase in numbers of these people every year. For that reason we on this side of the House welcome the fact that the hon. the Deputy Minister is introducing these amendments now.

There is something about this issue that worries me and I think it is necessary that the question be asked. Under normal circumstances the capital will be channelled through the Corporation for Economic Development and the Corporation will have considerable powers. However, there are still many people who have the impression that private capital should also be used in the homelands for economic development. I want to ask the hon. the Deputy Minister whether these changes will also mean that the Government may be considering not only to channel private capital through the development corporation to the homelands, but also to allow further private capital to promote development in the homelands. Will it also be possible in due course to welcome a change in this approach on the part of the State? I trust the hon. the Deputy Minister will be able to give us an indication in this direction.

Mr. Speaker, the previous two speakers, those of the IUP and the PRP, supported the legislation. The hon. member for Edenvale and the hon. member for Houghton referred to the Tomlinson Report and said that the NP did not support it at the time and that it did not accept the report. The difference is that the NP knows the right time to introduce changes like these. That is precisely the difference between us and the PRP and the UP.

This Bill makes provision for an umbrella body in the place of the old BIC and the XDC. The main purpose of this legislation is to co-ordinate and to provide financial and managerial assistance. Where the foundations have already been laid, it is now possible to built on the very same foundations in terms of the provisions of this legislation.