Mr Chairman, I thank you for this opportunity.

It was with shock and horror that we learnt of the senseless murder of one of our colleagues from the House of Representatives, Mr Peter Jacobs, who was the member of Parliament for the Alra Park constituency.

It is ironic that the first speech in this first joint debate should be a reference to this very tragic incident. At its first meeting after this the House of Representatives will formally move a full motion of condolence. On behalf of those of us in the first joint sitting of an extended committee I, however, want to take the opportunity this morning to pay tribute to the deceased member and convey our deepest sympathy to his next-of-kin.

I came to know Mr Jacobs, as a former Whip of his party, as a courteous man with an infectious sense of humour who was ready to sacrifice everything for his voters. He strove with intensity and fervour to ensure that the system would succeed.

The general public does not always have the proper perspective on the high price members of all Houses, but of some Houses in particular, pay to participate in this system and get it to succeed. For that reason our sincere sympathy also goes to the House of Representatives in this hour of darkness. Our prayer is that this senseless deed will not discourage and intimidate those hon members, but will in fact encourage them to greater dedication. Then Peter Jacob will not have died in vain.

Mr Chairman, lady and gentlemen, on behalf of the Executive Committee of the Cape, I should like to associate myself with the words expressed by the Chief Whip in regard to the death of our deceased friend, Mr Peter Jacobs. It was a senseless act and we associate ourselves fully with those words of sympathy.

The amendment of the Standing Rules and Orders of Parliament makes provision for a meeting of this Extended Committee on Provincial Matters to be held in public and for the Administrator and other members of the Executive Committee, as well as all the Cape members of Parliament of all three Houses of Parliament, to participate in the proceedings. From the point of view of provincial government, this is an important and historic milestone in the constitutional development process.

For the fifth time in the political history of South Africa we have a joint sitting consisting of all population groups from the present Parliament which are deliberating jointly and which are vested with powers of disposal. When the provincial councils were dissolved two years ago the provincial government lost its most important direct channel of communication and accountability. The interim arrangements made to discuss important matters, such as provincial budgets—which in the case of the Cape amounts to R2 746 million for the present financial year—did not satisfy the requirements of such an important level of government. Although the new arrangement which is being set in motion here today is possibly not the ideal one, it represents a recognition of the prominent place and role of provincial government in the system of government of the Republic of South Africa which directly affects the daily lives of every person in the Cape Province.

I cannot emphasise strongly enough the importance of powers for all the inhabitants of the Cape, and if it should appear that the new experiment with which we are beginning today does not allow sufficient time for an in-depth discussion of a budget of almost R3 billion, Parliament will have to reflect again. I want to express the hope that this new arrangement will contribute to promoting open and two-way communication between provincial government and the communities served by it.

The scope, diversity and complexity of the provincial government services are so comprehensive that my Executive Committee has prepared for hon members a concise guide to its areas of function, in which the addresses and telephone numbers of the functionaries concerned are also indicated. The guide can serve as a useful source of reference for Cape MPs and copies will be dispatched as soon as possible to every hon member.

The 1987 annual report of the province is at present being printed, and we hope to make it available soon. The devolution of functions from central government departments during the past two years has contributed considerably to the sphere of responsibility of provincial government. The scope of services devolved by the central to the provincial government during the past two years has caused 17 430 staff members to be added to the provincial establishment, which is more than the total establishment of most central government departments, and has led to an increase in personnel posts from 54 006 to 71 436.

Various powers which were previously vested in the provincial government have in turn been delegated to local authorities, examples of which are the power to decide about delegation of personnel, various matters in regard to voters’ lists, the establishment of cemeteries, tender exemptions, certain official allowances within laid-down guidelines and other matters. Further investigations are being carried out to determine what other powers can be transferred to local authorities.

In addition a possible amendment of the legislation on local authorities is at present being investigated to make provision for the further transfer of powers. As hon members are aware the surface area of the province covers 721 004 square kilometres, which is almost one and a half times more than the combined surface area of the other three provinces, and this makes the rendering of services very expensive. In my opinion the norms for the provisions of funds for the rendering of services will of necessity have to be adapted to make provision for costs caused by the vast distances, otherwise this factor could lead to a weakening and deterioration in services one would never be able to rectify since it would be aggravated by the large population increase and the worrying extent of the urbanisation process, services such as infrastructure, housing, social and other community services such as hospitals, clinics and ambulance services in the urban areas in particular.

The private sector will have to play a greater role in the provision of housing, for example, but a solution to the problem of providing adequate funds for these essential basic services remains an urgent necessity. Our effective growth on our budget this year, after new devalued services have been left out of account, amounts to a mere …

Mr Chairman, may I ask the hon Administrator a question?

Mr Chairman, I am not prepared to reply to any questions at this stage.

Our effective growth on our budget this year after new devalued services have been left out of account, amounts to a mere 0,19%, and to compete with an inflation rate of approximately 14% is no joke. We shall be compelled to keep on re-arranging the priorities of services, scaling down standards and effecting greater productivity and privatisation where possible.

Order! A point of order is being raised.

Mr Chairman, I just want to refer back to Mr Jacobs, a member of the standing committee. I see everyone has received those blue reports. Are we not also entitled to receive such reports so that we can prepare ourselves for the debate?

The Chair has nothing to do with the distribution of documents, and I think this is a very inopportune stage of the Administrator’s speech at which to interrupt him. The hon the Administrator may proceed.

We shall be obliged to re-arrange the priorities of services, to scale down standards and effect greater productivity and privatisation where possible. You will realise, however, that this cannot continue without serious harm being done to provincial responsibilities.

I want to deal very briefly with a few important functional areas. My colleagues, the other members of the Executive Committee, will probably go into these in greater detail later.

†Hospital and Health Services

The needs of the Province in this area are immense. The amount of R1 385,743 million voted for this service is enormous, but it is unfortunately not adequate, and this area deserves greater prominence when national priorities are determined.

It must be borne in mind that the demand for such service is determined by actual need and not created artificially or at will. A rapid increase in population, the rapid Black urbanisation process, progressive rise in the living standards and increased life expectancy all place an unbearable pressure on health services. The importance of health services for a country must not be underestimated and the present growth of 1,2% per annum allowed for health services is completely inadequate. Special needs that I wish to emphasise are: The commissioning of new and renovated physical facilities and the acquisition of equipment; health services in Black residential areas; and ambulance services which, especially after the much-discussed AA Report, appeared to be lacking in a number of ways.

On 21 June 1987 the first patients moved into the new Groote Schuur wards which were ready for occupation at that stage. The patients and staff were overjoyed and 348 beds are occupied at present in the new building. The official opening ceremony for the new hospital is planned for September or October 1989.

I should like to refer briefly to hospital fees. In December 1985 already, the executive committee decided that from 1 April 1986 the hospital fee structure for the Cape Province should essentially be linked to the taxable income of a family unit and to medical aid benefit scales. Both were adjusted recently. The new employee tax deduction tables came into operation on 1 May 1987 and the medical aid benefit scales on 1 January 1988. Had we followed the same formula as in the past, tariffs would have had to be adjusted by an average of 28,5%. However, in the light of the State President’s initiatives to restrict inflation and his accompanying appeal that tariff increases should be limited, the Executive Committee approved an adjustment of the Cape Province’s fee structure, subject to Ministerial approval and/or the Cabinet’s approval of this step. The whole question of tariff increases is, therefore, still sub judice.

Since provision has, however, already been made for this income in the estimate, the retention of the existing tariff scales will necessarily result in a deficit of approximately R21 million in the 1988-89 estimate of revenue. At this stage it remains a matter of speculation whether there will be no increase at all or whether there will be only a limited increase. An increase to cover the full shortfall is out of the question. My Executive Committee is fully aware of its responsibility to fight inflation to the best of its ability.

I come to roads and traffic administration. As in earlier statements, I must once again stress that the funds voted for this branch are not sufficient to provide in the need for these services—in a province measuring 721 004 square kilometres, with the result that the cost of road construction and maintenance extremely high. Fortunately, the Department of Transport has now undertaken to declare 1 785 kilometres of trunk roads in the province, which form part of the proposed national network, to be national roads. As a result of this, the Department of Transport will spend R55,8 million in the 1988-89 financial year on the provision and maintenance of roads which, to date, have been the financial responsibility of the province. Furthermore, the department allocated R17 million for utilization on roads in respect of which the divisional councils are the road authorities.

It is still a fact that the backlog which has built up with regard to the provision and maintenance of our roads cannot be overcome in the foreseeable future. However, the province will be able to make provision for the most urgent current reconstruction and maintenance requirements this year. The norms which apply to the provision of finances for the rendering of services will, however, have to be adjusted drastically in order to avoid impairment. The funds voted will enable the divisional councils and regional services councils to perform their functions in respect of road maintenance in particular. However, I must point out to members that the amount of R52,2 million voted for the maintenance of trunk roads is less than 1% of the replacement value of the trunk road network, namely R6 000 million. Together with the national roads these roads are the lifelines of the province. On account of the vastness of the province they are used extensively for travelling and transport purposes. It is therefore of the greatest importance to both road users and the national economy that this network is maintained properly.

The floods in the Northern Cape and Karoo have caused considerable damage to roads. However, an amount of R17 million was voted in this regard in the current financial year, and repairs have started already.

I come now to the subject of nature and environmental conservation. The importance of the marine resources is clearly illustrated by the fact that nearly 800 000 tons of all types of fish and rock lobster are caught annually in South Africa’s territorial waters. This figure represents a value of nearly R500 million per annum. The institution and enforcement of effective control measures to ensure that this resource is protected and managed in such a way that a lasting yield is ensured for the future is therefore of paramount importance. The recent apprehension of a Spanish trawler caught trawling illegally within our territorial waters is an example of the stricter control measures being enforced at present.

In the field of community services the creation of an infrastructure and the provision of housing for Blacks is an immense task, especially if it is taken into account that there are approximately 2,8 million Blacks—excluding those in the independent states—in the Cape Province, of whom approximately 2 million may be found in urban areas, and that their natural growth rate is estimated at between 3% and 5% per year.

Since taking over this responsibility two years ago, approximately 5 200 ha land has either been identified or acquired for Black development, of which 68% is situated in the metropolitan areas. This land has the potential to be developed into 100 000 serviced residential plots on which housing can be provided by means of self-help, work creation of sub-economic schemes, and the involvement of the private sector. In the past two years 29 500 serviced plots have been made available by the provincial government to Blacks, of which 14 000 will be developed by the private sector.

Two years ago there were 86 Black local authorities of which about 30 were not functioning. At present there are 91 which are functioning. Since many Black local authorities are not in a growth phase yet and do not have skilled personnel at their disposal, they must be assisted by White officials. The training of Black officials and council members is, however, well under way.

Another sensitive issue is the increase in illegal squatting, especially in the Peninsula and its environs. It is a situation which, in the face of existing legislation, cannot be allowed to continue unchecked. Various steps are being taken and new legislation which is being considered at present, should make it easier to deal with the matter.

Recreation facilities

Last year R30 million was spent by the province in respect of recreation facilities for all population groups, and as hon members will notice from the Estimates, the same amount has been earmarked for this year.

* Regional Services Councils

Apart from the three regional services councils that have already been established, the Delimitation Board has already completed the investigations into an additional 19 regional services councils envisaged for the Cape. It was decided to let the establishment of regional services councils coincide with the commencement of the financial year of local authorities, that is 1 July. By 1 July 1989 at least four were to have been established in the Southern Cape, and possibly one in the Kimberley area. The financing of rural regional services councils is at present being investigated since it is clearly apparent that the envisaged levies will not generate sufficient income for the services of a RSC. If a solution can be found in time, the 14 councils in these areas will also be established by 1 July 1989.

In the meantime the first three councils are rapidly coming of age and expanding their objectives, since it would not be possible to continue for much longer on the existing basis with the financing of provincial functions without the standard and scope of essential services inevitably being detrimentally affected by the scarcity of funds. I kindly request the hon members to put their heads together with me in order to resolve this tricky problem.

Finally I should like, during the debate, to deal with specific matters raised by hon members, while the members of the Executive Committee are at their disposal concerning the matters which fall under their jurisdiction.

Mr Chairman, it is a great honour to be the first member of Parliament to participate in the debate on this historic occasion on the road of constitutional reform. This is an event to which I have been looking forward with keen anticipation, because I believe that people should talk directly to one another in this country, that they should be able to conduct a debate with one another and to look one another in the eyes, so that we may convey our standpoints to one another in person instead of reading about them in Hansard or the Press.

I also consider it an honour to speak after the hon the Administrator of the Cape Province. I want to congratulate him on an impressive maiden speech on this extended committee. He made an impressive maiden speech in the House of Representatives, too, just as many of us will be making our maiden speeches here today. I want to thank him for the standard that he has set; I think his frankness, thorough preparation, composure and dignity should be emulated by us all.

†Allow me to extend a word of thanks and appreciation to him and all the members of the Executive Committee for the way in which they are conducting the affairs of the Cape Province. They have to execute their duties under very difficult circumstances. Firstly, numerous new responsibilities have devolved upon them. Secondly, as hon members have heard from the speech of the Administrator, finances are not in abundance, but the needs of our people are. To make ends meet, they have to be very circumspect in their spending. I think they are doing a sturdy job. As a matter of fact, I have so much confidence in the Executive Committee and the Administrator, that I propose we send them on the field next time a rugby team from South West Africa comes to Newlands! Perhaps it will go better with us then! [Interjections.]

Mr Chairman, will the hon member take a question?

No, sir, I will not.

*Forgive me if I indulge in a little nostalgia. There are 33 former MPCs sitting on this extended committee today. We gained valuable experience on the old Provincial Council, for each of those 33 members enjoyed his participation on that council. It was a privilege for us to be able to serve on it. However, when the tricameral Parliament came into being, it soon became apparent that the Provincial Council could not be retained in the form in which it was constituted at that time.

Various models were proposed. The one chosen took the form of a designated Executive Committee which would be controlled by Parliament by means of a standing committee and debates on the Budget and the report of the standing committee in the various Houses. This system came in for a great deal of criticism, especially because of the contention that there was insufficient Parliamentary control over the actions of the Administrator and the Executive Committee.

I want the people of the Cape Province to know that it is not easy for the Administrator and the Executive Committee to be cross-examined by 23 members of Parliament for approximately seven days. It is not easy, but that is what happens. Among these 23 members of Parliament there are some formidable cross-examiners. Not only are the actions and policy of the Administrator and the Executive Committee assessed, but their patience, too, is sorely tried at times. It is no easy task either for the Provincial Secretary and his senior officials to furnish replies, on the basis of the Auditor-General’s report, to questions put by members of this standing committee.

While I am talking about the Provincial Secretary and his officials, I also want to thank them for their contributions to provincial government. Furthermore, I should be neglecting my duty if I failed to thank the members of my standing committee for the mutual understanding and co-operation that we enjoyed.

Mr Chairman, what are we going to do with this first joint public sitting? This question has occurred to me. What are we going to do with this opportunity? Are we going to use it or abuse it? Are we going to use it to prove wrong those critics who allege that the various groups in this country cannot work together? Are we going to abuse the opportunity, so that people may speak of us afterwards and say, “We told you so”? Are we going to use this opportunity to show the world that constitutional reform can take place by way of dialogue and negotiation? Are we going to abuse this opportunity—as some hon members are already doing—or are we going to show the world that we can accomplish something?

Mr Chairman, on a point of order: Is the hon member entitled to imply that a member of this committee is abusing this opportunity?

Order! The hon member was in order and he may continue.

Thank you, Mr Chairman. The truth always hurts.

Are we going to use this opportunity to provide our voters with guidance, or are we going to abuse this opportunity by telling our voters what they want to hear? Are we going to use this opportunity to state our standpoints in a civilised way, even though we differ fundamentally from one another, or are we going to abuse this opportunity by turning this debate into a political brawl? Every time someone rises in this committee, he will have to answer this question.

Finally, I do not believe that we have come to the end of constitutional reform at the provincial level. My personal opinion is that if we want to bring the government to the people, we shall have to give very serious consideration in future to the introduction of provincial councils or regional councils consisting of representatives of all population groups. Let us prove by our debate on this occasion today that this is possible, so that we may pave the way for further constitutional development.

Mr Chairman, I want to associate myself with the remarks of the hon the Chief Whip of Parliament by saying that we as a party have been shocked by the sudden death of our friend, the hon member for Alra Park, Mr Peter Jacobs. At this stage we want to convey our condolences to his family—I believe the leader of the party will have a lot to say about this incident later.

Mr Chairman, this is a historical occasion. It is historical because I am the chairman of the first committee to participate in the provincial debate in the Senate Hall. It is also historical because this is the place where our franchise was removed. I therefore think we will have a lot to say.

I do not want to concentrate on what the hon member for Parow said; we must always use this platform for politics because of our history. He will recall that today is the first time in our existence since 1984 that we are able to participate in a provincial debate. This is the political arena in terms of the Constitution of his Government where we have to state our views.

He must tell me whether we are busy with window-dressing. This is a historic week for the NP of South Africa. For the last 40 years they have maintained their status of oppression. I read several newspapers and I always ask myself what we have to boast about, because we are denying people rights. Is denying someone a right something to boast about? How have they handled South Africa? The major question is how they have handled South Africa. In the sports arena our people are banned from participating overseas. We are banned politically by sanctions. Then one hears this cry that we must talk as if affairs in South Africa are all right.

Before I tell hon members about a shocking article which appeared in the newspapers, it is appropriate that I should congratulate the hon member for Toekomsrus and the hon member for Gelvandale on the historical battle they fought and in which they won a case in the Supreme Court which ruled that the beaches in Port Elizabeth were open to all races.

What I find strange is the Administrator’s appeal against a decision which he cannot defend morally. Nobody can defend beach apartheid. The waters were not created by any South African White person. It is something God-given. With this we are trying to preserve something that is not a right. Do we not have consideration for other people?

I have the book with the debates of the Cape Provincial Council of 1980. In one of these debates the hon the Administrator tried to defend this policy of separateness. Separate can, however, never be equal. There cannot be equality when there is separation. This debate was after the City Council of Cape Town had been requested to open their beaches. In this debate the hon the Administrator read out a letter which he had written in reply to the request of the City Council. I quote from the Debates of the Provincial Council of the Cape Province (col 704, 27 February 1980):

If the hon the Administrator is serious about his task and if he is interested in the various population groups he will not appeal to the Court of Appeal.

I also want to quote from the interesting speech made on the same day by Mr Hulley, now the hon member for Constantia in the House of Assembly (col 724):

Then there were some interjections—

I think that is the important message today in South Africa: No person’s identity can be taken away. We in the LP say that the right of the individual is paramount. We say this with much respect to the Administrators. I wonder whether, when the decision was taken to appeal against the decision of the Supreme Court, the other members of the executive committee were consulted. I would like the hon the Administrator to tell us today whether the other members were consulted and, if so, whether they agreed with his decision to appeal against the decision.

I now want to look at local government. In local government we deal with the lives of people. As far as we, as Black people, are concerned it is important to look at what is happening in this arena. I want to state emphatically that the function of the provincial administration is, irrespective of what we might hear, to look at the policies of the Government. In this regard I want to refer to p 22 of the Guide on Provincial Functions:

However, when we look at that and at what is happening in South Africa one could ask the question: “Are we serious in what we are doing?” Let us for example look at housing for Black people. What is happening in this particular field? We can built as many houses for Black people as we want to but the time will come in the near future when we shall have to say that the Group Areas Act must be abolished. This Act in itself is militating against the wishes of millions of South Africans. How can we justify something that is immoral? When one is in a difficult position one must look at one’s instructions.

I think the time has come for us to sit down in an honest frame of mind and conduct proper negotiations. Then we should consider the road ahead; we should ask ourselves where we are going. Let us look at this road that lies ahead.

I want to say today that irrespective of the type of laws we pass and irrespective of the force we use, South Africa will one day be governed by people of all race groups. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I should like to associate myself with the previous hon member and convey, on behalf of the House of Delegates, our sympathy to the bereaved family of the late Mr Jacobs, who was the hon member for Alra Park.

Mr Chairman, I want to speak about the most hurtful legislation in South Africa as it is being applied in the Cape. It is this legislation which has made us many enemies abroad and in Africa. The admittance of people to beaches is one of the matters provided for in this legislation. The beach in the Strand is one example. There have been many requests from MPs and other officials in respect of this beach, but these have all fallen on deaf ears. I should like to know what the Provincial Council of the Cape is doing about it.

It has been said that there are limited funds and that there are many objectives. No funds are required, however, to get the authorities to open this beach and other beaches. Exercise is all that is required.

I also want to address the question of business and residential areas. The cream of these areas are for Whites only, and I must say that our communities view this as a very sad state of affairs. After all, they are also South Africans, but they are being deprived of their right as human beings to trade where they want and to live where they want to. Because of this hurtful legislation foreign countries have been disinvesting in this country, and this disinvestment has been bringing about unemployment amongst our people. There are a few things I should like to know from the Administrator.

We were told that every school would be open to the different race groups, and I want to know what is being done in this regard and whether he supports this. I also know that apartheid is still being practised at certain hospitals in the Cape. I know, for instance, that apartheid is being practised at Tygerberg Hospital. Yet, the Administrator told us in the standing committee that apartheid was not being practised at any hospital. I am sure that if we got rid of some of these practices our people would live in peace, that there would be no disinvestment and that there would be plenty of employment opportunities.

When one thinks about group areas, one has to concede that group areas exist all over the world. However, other countries do not provide for group areas on their Statute Books. The group areas may exist, but no provision is made for them on the Statute books of those countries. I am sure that, once our legislation with regard to group areas, has been removed from our Statute Book, those countries will become friends with South Africa once again as they were before this legislation was introduced.

Finally, Sir, I want to thank the members of the provincial council who are present here and I also want to express my appreciation for our having been given this opportunity to express our problems to them.

Order! While the next speaker, the hon member for Soutpansberg, is approaching the rostrum, I want to point out to hon members that a seat has been reserved here where hon members may await their turn to speak. In this way we can save a little time.

Mr Chairman, in the first place I associate myself, on behalf of my party, with the other expressions of sympathy on the death of Mr P S Jacobs, MP.

At the outset of these proceedings the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly wants to avail itself of this first opportunity to express its vehement displeasure and consternation at the distasteful way in which the present regime is using the new Standing Rules and Orders to transfer its pernicious policy of power sharing to the provinces. [Interjections.] The CP maintains in the first place that this exercise is a continuation of the integration process to which the Government is committed and by means of which other peoples govern jointly over Whites. We Afrikaners and the fellow Whites who identify themselves with the aspirations of the Afrikaner …

Mr Chairman, may I put a question to the hon member?

Mr Chairman, if I have time at the end of my speech, I shall give the hon member an opportunity to put his question. [Interjections.]

Mr Chairman, on a point of order: The hon member is saying that the hon member for Soutpansberg is a little scared.

Mr Chairman, I do not mind the hon member saying that, because perhaps he does not know yet what scared means. [Interjections.]

Mr Chairman …

Does the hon member want to raise a point of order? I cannot allow him to start an argument now.

Mr Chairman, my point of order is the following: If the hon member wants me to show him what scared means …

Order! That is not a point of order. The hon member for Soutpansberg may proceed.

Secondly, we deny with contempt the argument that these exercises we are engaged in today in Pretoria, Cape Town, Bloemfontein and Pietermaritzburg, are an extension of democracy. All four provinces are governed by administrators with MECs from various ethnic groups. They were appointed by the hon the State President and are accountable to him through the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning. Democratically elected provincial councils were abolished. This is no extension of democracy, but the curtailment thereof. We are participating here in a macabre death dance around the dying embers of democracy and in the process the voters are being exposed to an objectionable political confidence trick.

I do not understand that.

The hon member says he does not understand that, but I want to tell him that with the passage of time …

Order! No, the hon member must restrain himself, I cannot allow a dialogue.

Mr Chairman, I have no quarrel with the hon member. He will be deprived of democracy by the NP in exactly the same way as the Whites are being deprived of it.

We shall not allow it!

Yes, we shall not allow it either. We shall come to this again later. [Interjections.] In addition I just want to tell the hon member that I am not talking about a people’s democracy, but about a Western democracy.

Thirdly, I want to say that Cape Town is the legislative capital of the RSA. During these next two days the benches of the three Houses in Cape Town are gathering dust. Approximately three-quarters of the members of Parliament, plus a large number of officials, including Hansard reporters and clerks, now have to travel to Pretoria, Bloemfontein and Pietermaritzburg. They must be provided with accommodation. Adequate security arrangements must also be made at the four meeting places. All this costs in excess of R100 000, additional to the amounts budgeted for the cost of a normal parliamentary session held in Cape Town. [Interjections.] All this is happening while all of the amenities of Parliament, with its officials, remain available at no additional cost. The parliamentary programme comes to a halt while hon members of Parliament assemble in the provincial capitals.

Fourthly, opposition parties are reduced to irrelevancies. Without the opposition Whips having been consulted in accordance with tradition— they were merely convened and informed of the way in which the speaking turns and times had been allocated—we are now confronted with the following completely inadequate situation: As far as Natal is concerned, the total debating time is 720 minutes. Of this a quarter, that is to say 180 minutes, has been allocated to the Administrator and to MECs. To the NP, that propagates the Government’s standpoint together with the Administrator and the MECs, 200 minutes have been allocated. To the House of Representatives, that is sitting here in a co-governing capacity, 80 minutes have been allocated. To the House of Delegates, similarly participating here in a co-governing capacity, 150 minutes have been allocated. To the CP 40 minutes have been allocated; to the PFP 30 minutes and to the Independents 10 minutes.

Even though we were therefore to accept that a certain degree of opposition would emanate from the ranks of the House of Representatives and the House of Delegates, the government of the province receives 52,8% of the allocated time and the total opposition in the House of Assembly only 11,1%.

I come next to the Transvaal, where a total of 660 minutes have been allocated for debate. A quarter of this—165 minutes—has been allocated to the Administrator and the MECs. To the NP 190 minutes have been allocated—a total of 355 minutes. To the House of Representatives 140 minutes have been allocated; the House of Delegates receives 70 minutes; the CP 40 minutes, the PFP 30 minutes, the NDM 10 minutes and the Independents 10 minutes. Government time therefore amounts to 53,8%, while the opposition in the House of Assembly receives 13,6%.

Let us next consider the Orange Free State. The total debating time is 480 minutes. A quarter— 120 minutes—has been allocated to the Administrators and the MECs. The NP receives 150 minutes—a total of 270 minutes. The House of Representatives receives 100 minutes, the House of Delegates 40 minutes, the CP 30 minutes and the PFP 20 minutes. The government time therefore amounts to 56,25% and that of the opposition in the House of Assembly 10,4%.

Is there no representation in the Free State?

Who is the hon member referring to now? Is he asking whether the House of Delegates is represented in the Free State? [Interjections.]

Order! I cannot allow a dialogue. The hon member may react if he sees fit, but I cannot allow a dialogue. The hon member may proceed.

The Cape receives a total of 690 minutes for debate. The Administrator and the MECs receive a quarter, that is, 170 minutes, the NP receives 200 minutes. This is a total of 370 minutes. The House of Representatives receives 145 minutes; the House of Delegates 75 minutes, the CP 40, the PFP 30, the Independents 10 minutes. Total government time is therefore 53,6% and that of the opposition in the House of Assembly 11,6%. [Interjections.]

Mr Chairman, may I ask the hon member whether he is implying that the Government party, with its numerical superiority, must receive less than 50% of the time?

I shall come to the hon member’s question soon. The extremely unfair and calculated discrimination against the CP is further clearly illustrated by the following examples.

In the Free State the CP, with a total of 60 000 voters who supported its policy on 6 May, receives 30 minutes debating time. In the same debate the Coloureds, with 6 000 votes, receive 100 minutes debating time. [Interjections.]

The Indians, who with a few inhabitants have no votes in the Free State, and who can have no interest in the Free State’s budget, received 40 minutes more debating time than the CP. [Interjections.]

In the Cape and Natal certain adjustments were made to the debating time in order to give the Indians more time in Natal and the Coloureds more time in the Cape, in accordance with their numbers. In the Transvaal, where the CP won 22 seats and polled 383 000 votes—100 000 more votes than the Coloureds’ total number of votes of 272 000 in the entire Republic—there has been no adjustment for the CP. [Interjections.] That is how fair it is. [Interjections.]

Actually you should not have received any time.

That is the language one hears from people who want to govern—“Actually you should not have received any time.” It is like Buthelezi who says that the Whites will be condemned to eternal imprisonment in a Zulu democracy. [Interjections.]

Order! I am sorry to have to interrupt the hon member but his time has expired.

Mr Chairman, I am merely rising to afford the hon member an opportunity to complete his speech.

Mr Chairman, I thank the hon member.

Mr Chairman, on a point of order: The hon member was speaking for ten minutes on issues which were not necessarily important to hon members who are present here. [Interjections.] He had only been speaking for a minute when he already started insulting a lot of hon members of the Houses of Representatives and Delegates … [Interjections.]

Order! It is not for the Chair to interfere with the content of an hon member’s speech, provided that it is not unparliamentary. The hon member’s speech is not unparliamentary and therefore I cannot stop him from saying what he says.

Mr Chairman, in the Transvaal the CP, with its 383 000 votes, received 40 minutes debating time, while the Coloureds, with 35 000 votes received 140 minutes debating time. [Interjections.] Mr Chairman, I am not involved in a quarrel with the hon members on my right hand side. I am quarreling with the system. That is what we are opposed to.

In spite of the power-sharing principle which is under discussion here, this unfair conduct can point to nothing but a calculated attempt to deprive CP voters of their democratic rights in these debates, in favour of the Coloureds and the Indians. The 547 502 CP voters in the RSA are receiving a total of 150 minutes of debating time, while the 272 854 Coloured voters are receiving 456 minutes and the 83 613 Indians 335 minutes. Such an unfair system surely calls for maximum resistance and maximum disapproval.

This effort to make the CP irrelevant as the Official Opposition is being further supported by the clearly spelt out standpoint of the Labour Party which lays claim inter alia to their being the Official Opposition and to their having this confirmed as a convention. They say they are the Official Opposition, but the NP is governing by their grace. They are the coalition partners of the NP. [Interjections.] They are helping the NP to govern.

The CP regards the arguments and factual statements mentioned above in such a serious light that it will now demonstrate its opposition to the inconsiderate distortion of the system by withdrawing from today’s proceedings. We shall return to the assembly hall tomorrow.

Mr Chairman, I could just mention that we are also making this statement available to the Press now.

Mr Chairman, this reaction on the part of the hon member of Soutpansberg was to be expected. Their attitude throughout was that they would not participate in the proceedings of this meeting. What the hon member in fact illustrated to us with his statistical analysis, in his own calculation which he presented here today, was that there is no powersharing, because the time allocation as he pointed it out has been proportionally divided among the respective Houses and the various parties of each of those Houses.

Another aspect which the hon member touched upon was the so-called cost involved in the fact that the committees are sitting in various provinces to deal with the affairs of each province. However, he does not take into account the fact that it is a cheaper process than the process which applied previously when the provincial councils were still constitutionally part of our structure.

I want to deal with something completely different today, because not only is the NP celebrating a festival this week, but this whole year is generally known as a year of festivals. That is why I do not think it would be inappropriate, on this occasion, to express a special word of congratulations to the Cape Performing Arts Board which is celebrating its 25th anniversary this year.

In all civilisations over the centuries the performing arts have played an important role in expressing the level of development of communities. The theatre, opera, ballet and music must therefore form a component of the quality of life one is experiencing.

That is why communities would be impoverished without the arts. In fact the arts form an integral component of the community as such. Throughout history these have been visible and material indications of mankind’s civilisation and refinement. Consequently it is not unusual that governments accept co-responsibility for the funding of organisations that seek to promote the performing arts.

The Administrator of the Cape, the hon Mr Eugene Louw, consequently undertook at the time of the reopening of the Opera House in Port Elizabeth to do everything possible to increase the appropriation of funds for Capab to save it from financial ruin. In this he has succeeded very well indeed because the grant-in-aid of R8,358 million, which was appropriated for the 1987-88 financial year, has been increased in the coming financial year to R15,64 million, including rentals. I am convinced that this increased appropriation will be gratefully accepted.

There is no getting away from the fact that the expenditure involved in quality performances is exceedingly high, and this situation is aggravated by gnawing inflation. It is only in highly exceptional cases in the world that it is possible to operate the performing arts profitably. Capab therefore has to rely on other sources in any case in order to balance its budget.

To make the theatre more accessible, Capab recently launched the “Nico for All” project. This entails sponsorships and donations from the private sector to make it possible for interested but initially financially underprivileged people to attend theatrical productions, rehearsals, lectures, demonstrations, workshops and other theatre activities in the Nico Malan Theatre. This project, which deserves approbation from all, is succeeding in enhancing the quality of life of these people by means of spiritual, emotional and intellectual enrichment. In this way it is instilling an interest in the arts in a large section of the Cape community.

This project is also an investment for the future because in this way future audiences are being created. Perhaps this is not always realised, Mr Chairman, but the arts contribute a great deal to education, they boost tourism and transport services, and stimulate the retail trade.

Recently administrative and managerial changes have been effected in Capab. The well-known and well-loved Mr Gé Korsten has indicated that he is going to retire from service, but at the request of the board he agreed to remain on in the position of chief director until the end of next year. We thank him not only for that, but also for the excellent service he has rendered to Capab.

Mr Chairman, you will not take it amiss of me if I convey a special word of congratulation to the designated chief director, Mr George Loopuyt. Prior to his designation, he was Deputy Chief Director: Eastern Cape, and was located in Port Elizabeth. We from the Eastern Cape know the standard of his work and the enthusiasm with which he does it. That is why we know that this designation testifies to a wise decision, and we wish him everything of the best in this challenging position.

During the present year the hon Administrator, Mr Louw, was also responsible for the board of Capab being depoliticised. The Administrator himself vacated the position of chairman of the board and the board was reduced from 20 to 15 members, of whom only four of the previous board members were reappointed, while the previous vice-chairman, Mr Pierre Marais, was appointed as chairman.

I have already mentioned the attitude of the hon the Administrator towards Capab and the arts. Major maintenance work and expenditure on improvements in respect of the Nico Malan Theatre and the Port Elizabeth Opera House occurred during his period of office. This committee, and the community in general, takes cognisance with gratitude of the unselfish work which the Administrator has done in this connection. We know that as political functionary he is responsible for Capab, and that he will carry on with this good work.

When an appeal was made to local authorities to make a special contribution to the funds of Capab, the municipality of Port Elizabeth contributed generously and received general praise for this action. This contribution was also made in order to promote the performing arts in the Eastern Cape. In the cultural community it is almost common cause that Port Elizabeth ought to be the cultural capital of the Cape.

Recently the Port Elizabeth Opera House was renovated and extended, and today it is the oldest Victorian Theatre in South Africa still in daily use. With these improved facilities, increased monetary contributions from the local authority, and the starved theatre-goer, the community’s claim to more of the successful box-office performances for Port Elizabeth has increased. In respect of drama and ballet the needs of Port Elizabeth are being met to an increasing extent and we are grateful for that. Unfortunately we still do not have the facilities for presenting an opera there, and the indication is that the costs involved in the construction of the necessary facilities will be in the region of R25 million; something which at this stage of course we cannot afford. One can only hope that one day it will still be possible to realise this ideal of the community. It is also appreciated that it costs several thousand rands to take the orchestra to Port Elizabeth for performances.

If all of Capab’s activities are considered, it will be realised that the board is a major provider of employment, employing very specialised personnel in both a full-time as well as a part-time capacity. The role played by Capab in introducing the arts to our students of all races is commendable. Limited funds inhibit attempts to do even better in this sphere, and this is a growing need. Once again it is an area in respect of which one can only hope that, with more funds being made available in future, this need will also be met so that we can also educate our youth in that aspect of civilisation.

Mr Chairman, it is a privilege for us to participate in this debate today. It is a pity, though, that the members of the CP have just walked out, for you see, they think they are the only people who are God’s children. They think they are the only people who have been given an opportunity to negotiate on what kind of people they want to be when they are born here in South Africa. We, who do not share the same skin colour, are absolutely nothing in their eyes.

They protested and complained about the time allocated to them here, but what about the 19 million Black people who have not received a single minute of time here?

On 14 May my little boy was celebrating his twelfth birthday, and I asked him: “What do you want as a present?” We drove out to the Strand, although we do not know the place very well, and we bought fish hooks and sinkers there, as well as nylon gut. We then walked across the road.

Sir, you said we must look one another in the eyes this morning. I am looking you in the eyes now. When we came to that jetty there, there was a sign which stated “Whites only”. I then had a choice. I could then have told my son that we must turn around and go home, or I could break the law. What would your choice have been, Sir? You said we must look one another in the eyes— I am looking you in the eyes. What would your choice have been?

I chose to break the law, so that my son could have respect for his father—his father who had told him that he was going to Parliament because Parliament was the place where the laws were made, repealed and amended. His father had come with him, but here was a sign saying that we were not allowed to fish there. This happened as recently as 14 May of this year.

It is time we stopped selling one another short. It is time we did the right thing in this Parliament. There is nothing which hurts one more than to have to tell one’s own child: “You may not do that because it is against the law”. No wonder they say “To hell with the law!” in the musical District Six—The Musical.

The small things that hurt us are these kinds of no-entry signs. What I want to know today is why we may not catch fish on that jetty. You, Sir, said we must look one another in the eyes, and I want to look all of you sitting here in the eyes and ask you why my son and I cannot catch fish in the Strand. Why are there no recreation facilities for us along the coast of South Africa? Surely South Africa does not belong only to you; South Africa belongs to all of us sitting here. We are prepared to make our contribution towards a better South Africa. When are you going to make your contribution for a better South Africa? If you are afraid the beaches are going to become overcrowded, why do we not charge an entrance fee at those beaches, so that the hon the Administrator can get more revenue. If a thousand people come to that beach, and the beach can only accommodate a thousand people, we close the gates because the thousand people on the beach are all we will allow onto that beach for that day.

How long are we going to carry on in this way? Do the hon members want us to simply forget about this parliamentary system, and that we came here to discuss matters with them, but their ears are deaf? Must we do what Umkhonto we Sizwe is doing, and try to shoot their ears open? We chose the path of peaceful negotiation because we sitting on this side do not believe in violence. However we cannot carry on like this forever. We cannot come here day after day and plead for perfectly ordinary things.

According to the standards of those hon members I am a civilised man. I am so civilised that I can participate in this debate, but I am not civilised enough to catch fish with my son on the beach. When are we going to grow up? When are we going to put the interests of South Africa first, and not the interests of the NP or the interests of the Whites? The hon members do not need laws to protect them. They are what they are and we are what we are and we do not need laws to protect that. However, we do need laws to protect South Africa. Let us therefore from now on consider laws to protect South Africa, instead of laws to protect the Whites only.

I want to go further. Today the hon the Administrator complained that R1 358 million was not enough for hospital services, but can you believe it, we then triplicate those services so that Whites, Coloureds and Indians can be served separately. Why this unnecessary waste of money? [Interjections.] On the one hand the money is not enough, but on the other hand we create separate facilities. Why cannot we share the available facilities? Are we lepers? Surely we are not lepers! It is time we told one another the truth. The sooner we realise that we must live like brothers in South Africa, the sooner there will be change. The hon members do not need their White skins to protect them, but we do need standards and norms to protect all of us in this country. Let us make laws to lay down those standards and norms so that we can assure everyone in this country of a better life.

The other issue I want to raise is that of roads. For that purpose only R52,2 million was appropriated. What about the road between East London and Grahamstown, running through the Ciskei? That road is so full of potholes that one has to dodge them. That road belongs to South Africa, but why is it not being maintained? Why must we constantly drive through the potholes? Cannot something be done about it!

We have also been complaining for years about the narrow bridge along the road leading off the N2 to the little town of Breidbach. The time has now come for a decent bridge to be built for the people of Breidbach.

Mr Chairman, before I come to my speech, and before I react to the hon member for Border, I want to convey my gratitude and appreciation to the Administrator and his officials for the attractive and informative document they made available to us. To me as an ex-MPC it means a great deal. The facts which we have forgotten already, and which we as MPs must have at our disposal, are all contained in this document, and we can make very good use of it.

I should like to react to the hon member for Border. He and I have many things in common. Both of us are part-time attorneys who no longer make any money. We are part-time members of Parliament who do not have enough time for everything. The other day he informed me that he had borrowed a toga from my office which, according to him, must have been a very good one because he had won his case in it. I want to agree with him, because I also won quite a number of cases in it. I should now like to react to a few of the matters he raised. He made a few interesting statements. In regard to beaches he mentioned the charging of an entrance fee as a possible solution.

He also made the following statement. I do not think these are his specific words, but what it amounted to, however, was that whenever the beaches are full, they should be closed. I do not know whether those were his exact words. If that is the case, however, I just want to say that I think this is the cardinal problem we have to deal with. I am now speaking from my experience of local government in the past. I know one of the cardinal problems the Administrator and his administration have to contend with is the shortage of adequate facilities at some places in order to meet the demand.

I nevertheless agree with him when he says that everything in this country should be made readily available to everyone. Furthermore, of course, there is another very important aspect. This is that law and order must be maintained. I believe that both of us, by virtue of our background, will ask for this.

The next related aspect is that of the progress and development of everyone. This is what must count in this respect, and not the individual benefit of a single community at the expense of another. On that score I agree wholeheartedly with him. If these are the matters on which we can agree with one another in future, I think that he and I have a great deal in common which could promote sound co-operation between us. In this way I believe that we will for many years be able to help and augment each other in this country and in this Parliament.

Mr Chairman, I now want to return to the subject of the debate itself. I want to say a few words about finances. Just before I do so, I want to say a few words about the philosophy of tax as a base. According to the policy of the CP, as stated by the hon member for Bethal, everyone has the right to vote wherever he pays tax. I think it is imperative that we should understand in this debate today that this right is firstly related to a constitutional or political situation. In the second place services are paid for at certain places. From this it is apparent that a clear distinction exists between the two abovementioned facets. The first facet lies in the sphere of politics or constitutional matters. The second facet—that of payment for services—implies an automatic right to vote and rendering of contributions where one has to pay for them.

The first facet I can illustrate as follows. A foreigner who owns land in Switzerland, for example, has no franchise on the political level in that country. Nevertheless he does have franchise on the municipal level. I think these are factors which are of very great importance to us in this debate.

As far as the Administrator and his administration are concerned, I think it is important to note that the Administrator has to make very great contributions and has to take very important decisions in regard to the large amount of money that is spent. From the present budget it appears that R2 721,805 million is the amount being dealt with this year by the Cape Provincial Administration. Now the following question arises. When an organisation or an individual has to expend such a large amount is it not essential that he should also have decision-making powers over that money? In this respect I am thinking, for example, of a say in determining priorities at the highest level.

The Government, as implementer of government policy, ought to be the expert in regard to the precedence which is being created for it to make those contributions. This means, however, that this determination of priorities cannot be retained on the first level of government only, while the provinces have no say in the matter. Now we have the situation that the provinces are mostly in the dark about the merits or norms that are being applied in dealing with the overall or total amount allocated to them.

I believe that the question of determining priorities is being regarded too narrowly at this stage. It will therefore have to be extended to the provinces. I am referring to pages 18, 82, 103, 116, 118 and 119 of the Afrikaans text of the budget, on which it is apparent that the presentation of the estimates is based on the example of that of the central Government. One can therefore deduce from this that the provinces’ budgets will also have to be geared to budgeting by objectives now.

In this case a question immediately arises, because what it amounts to is the fact that virement in that case can only be approved by Parliament. That means that the Administrator-in-Executive Committee will no longer have final decisionmaking powers to transfer funds between line functionaries. If one refers to the report of the Auditor-General one sees that what we always refer to as column 2 amounts are involved here.

I believe that what we are dealing with here is not in accordance with the Government’s declared policy of devolution of power, and therefore I want to advocate that the provincial government be allowed to obtain full competence, so that they alone can decide in regard to such relocations of funds. Therefore I want to propose that only one Vote be allocated to the Provincial Administration.

A second point I want to make in this connection is that if one wants to maintain this first syndrome of central control, one must remember that Pretoria is situated rather far away to arrange matters in such a way that the Administrator and the Executive Committee, with the activities they have, should be governed from there. I think it would consequently be better if we made the logistical lines a little shorter.

In regard to the co-ordinating function of the provincial government when it comes to priorities on the third level of government, I think that there should never be any liaison with the central Government or with its departments, because those logistical lines extend too far. If we were to do that it would amount to the province merely being seen as a branch office of the joint central departments.

Under the old dispensation it was usually members of the provincial councils who liaised directly with the communities, but now that that situation has changed, I believe that we must find an alternative for the inhabitants of the Cape in order to determine their needs and comply with those needs on a level which will be directly beneficial to them.

In this connection I should like to refer to the old Slater Report in which it was stated as a cardinal point of policy that local government, or rather the third tier of government, should be direct and should be made available to communities over as short a distance as possible.

I referred earlier to the delegation of virement. If one looks at section 31 of the Exchequer and Audit Act, one sees that it is very clearly provided there that the Minister of Finance and the Treasury have powers and central control which in my opinion is no longer appropriate to the idea of the devolution of power.

I want to mention a few cases in this connection. In this way there is approval for the write-off of losses of State property and public money. There is also the approval of rates, scales and tariffs, and authorisation for exemption and so on. In my opinion the Administrator-in-Executive Committee ought to be a competent, autonomous body which is capable of taking decisions of the same calibre in regard to these aspects. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I happen to be in a good mood this morning and, on this historic occasion, I do not wish to sound a discordant note. I think it is common knowledge that we have all come a long way in order to find ourselves in the situation in which we do find ourselves this morning. Whilst there are pains on all sides—to the left, to the right, in front of us and behind us—let us not just simply groan about them but do what is really important, and that is to find remedies for these pains so that we will be able to build a better, stronger and happier foundation for a future South Africa.

Mr Chairman, I want to say that we should bury the past because we are not living in the past. If we continue to reminisce about the past we may overlook vital issues that affect us at present. Human problems are such that they cannot be overcome overnight. However, there must be sincerity to remove the most hurtful legislation at all tiers of government. Therefore, while I want to acknowledge the fact that there have been reforms, certain fundamental issues have still to be considered.

The much-discussed Group Areas Act has harmed, has left scars, and will continue to hurt as long as this ill-conceived Act remains on the Statute Book.

In regard to the provincial council the provincial administration is in fact rendering important functions especially in this transitional phase. Therefore, while we encourage them in respect of many matters that they have undertaken of late, many of which they have been carried through successfully, there are setbacks, and I think we should discuss these setbacks in a collective manner so as to make the message clear that progress and improvement must of necessity come at a faster rate.

In the South African situation with its complex problems we have to prepare the stage for postapartheid South Africa. This is our main responsibility, and getting together as we have got together this morning augurs well for that important and sacred task, for when that day dawns in South Africa, all of us—Whites, Blacks, Coloureds and Indians—want to be found managing the affairs of South Africa as equal citizens, not some as first class and others as second class citizens, and even third class citizens. We must wipe out these unnecessary differences.

Neither should there be any vestige of unnecessary colour consciousness. We all support supermarkets, do we not? Then let us make South Africa that great supermarket for the 21st century.

For the present, therefore, let us be realists and start improving the quality of life of all peoples in this fair land of South Africa. We need to have courage, of course. We need to meet the challenges in respect of the improvement of housing, education, social and recreational facilities, civic amenities and economic opportunities, bearing in mind the less advanced or more disadvantaged among our population at all times. These matters need to be administered in a fair and just way. If we succeed in these matters, we will be successful in South Africa. However, if we fail in this, all of us will be failing ourselves.

Therefore, my appeal this morning is for goodwill, and civilised goodwill at that, on the part of all the people in South Africa.

Mr Chairman, for me it is also a privilege to be able to participate in this historic occasion.

I should like to take this opportunity to thank the chairman of the Standing Committee on Provincial Affairs: Cape Province, the hon member for Parow and the hon Administrator and hon members of the Executive Committee for the manner in which they furnished us with information in the standing committee and for the way proceedings were conducted there.

This is the second year I have served on this committee, and it is a very interesting committee. Today, in a way, history is repeating itself, because not so long ago—just a few decades ago— Coloured people did have a direct say in the administration of the affairs of the province.

I also briefly want to take this opportunity to respond to two hon members who spoke previously. The hon member for Soutpansberg spoke of the eroding of democracy, and said in reply to an interjection by the hon member for Mamre that he was not speaking of a people’s democracy; he was talking about a Western democracy. If it is the hon member’s intention to set up a Western democracy in this country, I want to support him, but I must say that it is a complete paradox of his party’s policy and view of a people’s democracy.

The hon member gave a very good percentual exposition of time allocated in this debate to the CP and other parties from the various provinces. He told us that the CP did not support powersharing and that it would fail in future, but they also missed a really golden opportunity, in the 15 minutes he was allocated on this historic occasion, to give us an idea of the CP’s vision of provincial administration, and I think he would have had an audience here which would have listened to him with an open mind.

I now want to come to the hon member for Border. The hon member spoke of separate facilities and separate beaches. I should like to associate myself with what the hon member had to say about discrimination in relation to beaches reserved for Whites. However, I feel this was another illustration of the political prevarication indulged in by the hon member and his party. This is the same hon member who, about a month ago, during the debate on the State President’s Vote, in response to hon members of my party, the LP, asked what sort of radicalism was being practised here. Without this radicalism we could supposedly have obtained a lot more money for own affairs. Today he was again an exponent of the same sort of radicalism and revolt against apartheid.

I want to take the opportunity today to speak briefly on a subject which has a prejudicial effect on my community, the Black community in this country, ie the Government’s policy regarding separate hospitals. During 1987 in our report tabled in Parliament, we drew the attention of the hon the Administrator and the Executive Committee to the fact that there was no legal restraint on opening up training hospitals, on a totally non-discriminatory basis, to all population groups in the province. We also recommended that as a matter of policy hospitals should, in fact, be totally open. The motivation we gave for this was that the provinces were supposed to administer general affairs in terms of the Constitution. The object of general affairs is to provide services, on a communal basis, to all inhabitants of a province. On the basis of this motivation, it is indeed a paradox of Government policy and of the Constitution that there are still separate reserved wards in provincial hospitals.

We also objected to facilities available for provincial staff in certain places such as Vryburg and Uitenhage, being provided only for White nurses. I am referring here specifically to nurses’ hostels. In the case of Vryburg, there are 10 dwelling units available for live-in nurses. Two are used by White nurses, eight of the units are standing empty and are from time to time sublet to White female teachers. I want to say that it is a tragedy that there are people in this country who would rather lose South Africa than forfeit their race prejudice and exclusivity.

The hon Administrator had the following to say in reply to these questions, and I quote:

I do not think it is correct to say that by opening up these hostels one would forfeit efficiency, but it would be correct to say however that apartheid, racial prejudice and racism would be forfeited if these facilities were thrown open to all nursing staff of the provincial administration.

We also complained this year about having noted with shock that in regard to our recommendation in the previous report, no progress had been made with the opening of hostels for all nurses in the CPA.

The hon member for Soutpansberg also referred to the increasing degree to which bureaucratic government was being implemented in this country, and I want to associate myself with this. In their present form, provincial administrations are not motivated at all to make optimal use of facilities, and to ensure that funds are appropriated in the most cost-effective way, because there is no direct, public accountability to the taxpayer. The Government is, in fact, not engaged in a devolution of power, but rather in the decentralisation of administration. We find that power is increasingly being vested in a strong executive authority in the Cabinet and the ceremonial head of state.

I briefly want to state our view with regard to the general affairs services administered by the province, and say that the provinces rendering services on a racially segregated basis to the inhabitants of a province is, in fact, a denial of the Government’s policy of general affairs which must be provided on a communal, non-differential basis.

We also drew the Administrator’s attention to the fact that in most cases the facilities in “nonWhite” wards in hospitals were over-extended, and that many wards in the White section were empty. To illustrate this I again want to refer to the Vryburg Hospital, where there is one ward with 20 beds for Black, Coloured and Indian women, and one ward with 20 beds for Black, Coloured and Indian male patients, while a whole wing in the White section of the hospital is empty. How can one justify that? It is my considered opinion that an attempt will be made here today to defend discrepancies of this kind—the indefensible aspects—in the provision of services by the province.

I want to come back briefly to the rules of the province for the admission of State patients. Rule (b) reads:

Here again I believe that this is not the case, and that I am not given a chance to say where I want to be treated in a provincial hospital. We find the reason for this in paragraph 31(2)(i) of this policy document, in which it is provided that:

Once again we see that there is a bureaucrat who has to exercise his discretion in regard to the inherent right of South African taxpayers to decide where services should be provided for them.

The Administrator says the following regarding a recommendation by the House of Assembly in its report for the 1987-88 financial year:

The NP said that in the House of Assembly. I quote further:

Today I want to put it to the Administrator categorically that there is no legal restriction on opening up training hospitals on a totally nonsegregated basis. The Administrator says he does not implement racial discrimination in the provision of services, except where legal restrictions are in force, but he does not take this policy to its logical conclusion as far as training hospitals are concerned. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, as the first spokesman of the PFP in this debate, I would like to start off by making some general remarks. On behalf of the PFP, I should firstly like to express our condolences at the death of the late member for Alra Park.

Secondly I note that this extended committee system that is being launched today, represents both good and bad news. On the positive side it is the first occasion for public joint debates with members of all three Houses sitting together, and as such it opens a new chapter in the history of the tricameral system. To my knowledge it also is the first time in South African history that a Black man has sat in this Chamber as a participant in a Parliamentary political debate.

Thirdly, it is a great improvement on the system in use last year, whereby provincial matters formed a mere part of the general debate on constitutional affairs and consequently no time was specifically focussed on the affairs of the province.

On the other side of the balance sheet, however, it is ironic that the Black South African sitting here today has the smallest representation in this Chamber yet he comes from probably the biggest population group of the Cape Province. It is also tragic that he sits here with no elected mandate from the group from which he is a member and he sits here as a nominee of the NP Government, which must make his position very difficult indeed.

Secondly, this extended committee is one of the constitutional descendants of Jan Van Riebeeck’s original Council of Policy which I believe met on the Drommedaris on the high seas in 1652. The constitutional thread of government bodies which runs through our history from that original Council of Policy which was appointed by the Dutch East India Company has run through many chapters including the prolonged struggle for democratic government in the Cape Colony that led to the old Cape Parliament and, after Union, to the Cape Provincial Council which was abolished in 1986.

In the light of the history of the Cape Province of over a century of democratically elected government institutions I regret to say that this extended committee is a pitiful substitute. Although there were many flaws in the old Cape Provincial system—it fell far short of the autonomous separate federal State parliaments which we in the PFP envisage as the ideal building block for a South African constitution—it was nevertheless a democratic representative system and it was a body that had constitutionally defined powers. Its voters’ roll should simply have been expanded to include all South Africans.

This extended committee has the right of public discussion and we welcome it, but it has no right of public decision. This committee reflects the proportional composition of the parliament as a whole, but in no way represents the proportional make-up of either the population groups or the party political strength of the Cape Province. In short this body purports to take the place of the abolished Provincial Council, but as a mere subcommittee of the central Parliament it is no more than a farcical charade of representative provincial government. Another negative aspect of these discussions is that although the Provincial Administration now accounts for far more revenue and far more responsibility than previously these two days of debate are supposed to substitute for what was previously a provincial session lasting up to eight weeks in a normal year. To suggest that justice can be done to the important subjects under discussion in only two days of debate is frankly laughable.

There are many aspects to the activities of the reconstituted provincial administration upon which the PFP would like to comment. In my own speaking turn I want to focus on the issue of beaches as have other hon members before me. The policy on beaches of the PFP is very simple. No beach anywhere on the coastline of the Republic should be reserved on the basis of race or colour. In my view, any reservation of a Godgiven beach on the basis of race or colour is a moral outrage and a stinking affront to those citizens who are thereby excluded. I must state publicly that as a White South African I am ashamed that I am forced to be associated, by implication, with the racial zoning of beaches which has been carried out by other White South Africans representing the NP Government. I am only thankful that my own party has not compromised itself over the years in this respect and I must note also that the Cape Town City Council has not compromised itself either.

For over 300 years this country had no beach zoning. The first human feet on our beaches were not White feet. If one takes an extract from the minutes of the East London City Council in 1969 one sees they said the following:

Yet, in 1953 the NP Government introduced the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act. An example of the way in which they imposed this against the wishes of the people can be taken from a telegram to the town clerk of East London, from the director of Local Government, dated 1 December 1969. The last sentence of that telegram reads:

So it was in 1969, and so it is today. The hon the Administrator, with the backing of the NP, still resists the opening of beaches, and that Act goes against over 300 years of our history. The Reservation of Separate Amenities Act, Act 49 of 1953, very specifically places the control over the sea shore in the hands of the Administrator in Executive Committee. The application of that control was delegated subsequently by a notice in, I think, 1972. It was withdrawn again in a notice, PN/484, on 21 August 1987. So, to my mind there is absolutely no doubt at all that the responsibility with regard to reserved beaches lies full square with this Executive Committee, and in particular with this hon the Administrator.

Word has gone out that local option is in the pipeline and that councils will be permitted to make the choice for themselves as to whether facilities are going to be open or not. I am against that choice being available. I believe there must be a laid down principal that is applied nationally that all beaches are open to all South Africans— to all persons, without reservation. Be that as it may, although local option is in the pipeline, we also have the example of the major cities in the Cape Province asking for their beaches to be opened and the hon the Administrator resisting.

I want to identify with the question posed by the hon member for Haarlem. Was the decision to appeal against the Port Elizabeth Supreme Court decision taken by the hon the Administrator personally or by the committee? If it was the committee’s decision, is it correct that the persons on that committee who are not White went along with that decision? Sir, I would find it stunning if that were the case. I believe the public should have an answer to that.

An irony is, in my opinion, that if the proposition were put to the vote here today, namely that this committee calls upon the Executive Committee of the Provincial Administration to execute its authority to deproclaim all demarcated beaches throughout the Cape Province, it would win. If the people who are not in any way represented here, except by Mr Nyati, were here, it would win by such an overwhelming vote. Yet this Executive Committee and this hon Administrator resist it.

It is interesting to note what Alfred Hoernlé said about racial discrimination—and he said this some 40 years ago:

[Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is interesting to note that the last reference which the hon member for Constantia used was written more than 40 years ago, when there was no apartheid, so to speak, instituted by the NP Government, because the NP was not in power at that stage. Therefore, obviously that reference is not applicable at this stage. [Interjections.]

*There is also another aspect I want to touch on briefly. I want to agree with what the hon member Mr Lockey said with regard to the hon member for Soutpansberg.

The hon member for Soutpansberg used a number of interesting adjectives here, of which the following are examples. He said we were exposed to an “objectionable political confidence trick” in this committee this morning. The hon member did not specifically say that he was making this allegation as a Afrikaner, but because the hon members of the CP constantly appear in the House of Assembly as the mouthpiece and the so-called only voices of the Afrikaner, I want to say in this House this morning that I dissociate myself from the remarks and behaviour of the hon member for Soutpansberg, and I am doing so as an Afrikaner. [Interjections.]

The hon member for Soutpansberg and his colleagues are under the impression that political leadership is based on hopes, dreams and good intentions. They sit in the secure stronghold of the House of Assembly, without being exposed to the other communities of South Africa, and then they proclaim their hopes, dreams and good intentions. But surely leadership is based on one’s ability to turn one’s hopes, dreams and good intentions into reality. Here where we have the opportunity this morning for the CP to put its leadership to the test of thorough argument, they are conspicuous by their absence. Consequently we must again come to the conclusion that they are unable to face up to the realities of South Africa.

I want to talk briefly about marine control. When we look at the budget for marine control, the question is whether the functions are being carried out satisfactorily, and whether the amounts voted are sufficient to ensure the continued utilisation of the marine resources to assure future generations of a livelihood. How does one determine whether the funds are sufficient to ensure that these Cape resources of rock lobster and abalone and, to a great extent, white fish, will still be as important a component of the Cape culture to future generations? The question is: Will the control functions and their management by the province lead to the results of research being applied in such a way that the resource will be protected for future generations?

Marine control is a relatively new experience for the province and is under the leadership of the MEC, Mr Adams. I submit that at first glance the funds voted would seem to be inadequate. Unfortunately there are no exact criteria to ascertain whether or not the appropriation is adequate, and for that reason one must allow oneself to be led by circumstantial data to gain a perspective.

The fishing industry earns R180 million in foreign exchange. The primary landed value of the fishing harvest is approximately R500 million, as the hon the Administrator said this morning. The Department of Environment Affairs is spending approximately R18 million on scientific marine research, and the provincial budget at the disposal of the MPC Mr Adams is only 1,4% of the primary value of the total marine resource. The question is: Is this amount adequate?

I submit that at first glance this would seem to be inadequate. For that reason I am appealing to the hon the Administrator to fill the 30 or so additional posts which have been created, to supplement the existing 70 posts, as soon as possible in order to perform the control function effectively.

It is significant that in addition to the full-time control officers, approximately 15% of the cases which are investigated by the inspectorate were brought to their attention by approximately 50 honorary officials who are actively involved in this. In this connection it is also appropriate for us to express a word of appreciation in this committee to the approximately 50 honorary officials for their service.

There is a further aspect, namely the involvement of the public. We have spoken about the honorary officials who assist the inspectorate to investigate irregularities, but the public certainly plays a role too. We want to appeal to the public as far as possible to support the inspectorate with information which can lead to poachers and black marketeers being apprehended. In this regard the recent success of the inspectorate in uncovering a large-scale rock lobster black market network is of particular importance. I want to congratulate the inspectorate on this success. I want to express the hope that they will also succeed, to an increasing extent, in uncovering black marketeering, specifically in the abalone industry, and bringing the people to book.

For years now, the public have been of the opinion that the abalone resource in particular is being overutilised. If this is the case, both the public and commercial divers are responsible for this. It is therefore important for the public to help to control overutilisation, where it exists.

The Administrator referred to the Spanish ship which was caught with fish worth more than a million rands on board. It is of no avail for us to spend millions of rands on the scientific gathering of information on marine management if we do not make adequate provision for the control function to be performed effectively.

In this connection I merely want to mention that recently there were suggestions that seven patrol boats would be privatised. I hope the Administrator will see to it that this is prevented. When the control services to the province were phased out there were already doubts as to whether it would be wise to fragment this unit of control by phasing out a part of the marine control or management to the province. There were doubts about this. I myself had serious doubts about this. At the moment the province’s inspectorate is proving itself, but I think it would be foolish to privatise the patrol boats, or a part of the marine control functions. I want to appeal to the Administrator to prevent this from happening.

Mr Chairman, after Saturday’s match at Newlands, I did not feel like going home. It was a dark night, but there was one thing which gave me the courage to turn up at this debate anyway. This debate is of the utmost importance to South Africa. Although I frequently criticise the Government here and abroad about the things which are wrong, I believe that what we are doing here today, we are doing in the interests of a new South Africa.

Today South Africa is at the crossroads. We are privileged to participate in this debate and other parliamentary processes. We are the people who must take the lead to progress beyond these crossroads. We must realise once and for all that South Africa is the only country we have. We as South Africans must also have the courage to decide on the course to adapt in future in order to reach those objectives.

It is gratifying that we can disagree with one another in this House this morning, but it is also gratifying to know that this is the start of that unanimity which must be cultivated to get us beyond the crossroads. The hon member for Constantia spoke about the MEC, Mr Nyati, who is here today. I hope that Mr Nyati understood him in the right spirit. If there is any problem, I want to rectify it.

It was a great privilege for me to travel in Canada and the United States of America in March. My travelling companion was my fellow South African, Mr Nyati. I want to thank the Administrator for giving Mr Nyati the time to go abroad to represent South Africa. In this MEC I found that unanimity which many of these hon members sitting in this Parliament at present lack. Even members of the CP could learn from the way in which Mr Nyati put South Africa’s case abroad.

Hon members could learn from the sacrifices he is making to serve on this Committee today; the dangers and the intimidation he has to face to be here and to take his place at the negotiating table.

The hon member for Soutpansberg said we were participating in a death dance. If he goes ahead with what they have planned for South Africa’s future, we will not only be participating in a death dance; we will have passed that stage. It will be the end of South Africa and of unanimity.

The NP members must take cognisance of the challenges which Mr Nyati faced abroad and which he accepted with dignity as a fellow South African. He did not do this as a Black South African, but as a South African who went there to represent his country. I can only admire him for the discipline, character and sacrifice which he displayed in fighting South Africa’s cause abroad.

At the moment it is difficult for South Africans to sell reform abroad. I want to ask that more members be used to put South Africa’s case.

We in this committee have chosen the path of negotiation. However, negotiations must also result in everyone having a share at the end of the day.

Mr Nyati did have problems while abroad. His problem was that he could not explain why we still had separate education systems in South Africa. He could not explain why his children could not attend the same school as the children of other MECs, with whom he served, and why he could not live in the same residential area as his colleagues. These are the problems Mr Nyati experienced abroad.

Mr Nyati also had the problem that he could not explain why he could not swim or even fish on the same beaches as the other MECs. Mr Nyati also had the problem that he could not explain why he could not use all the libraries of the Cape Provincial Administration, although he was an MEC.

Are you people not ashamed of yourselves?

Mr Nyati’s problem was also that he could not explain why he could not be admitted to the same hospital as other members of the Executive Committee or receive treatment at the same clinic as them. He also had the problem that he could not explain why all the public facilities which were available to the other MECs were not available to him too. Another problem which Mr Nyati had was that he could not explain why, although he was so competent that he could defend and represent South Africa abroad, he was not competent enough to have franchise in this country. The fact is that our country is going through a difficult time, but we are all trying to improve South Africa’s position here on the subcontinent and in the rest of Africa.

I believe that we must make a greater effort to develop tourism in this country. I know, and hon members will agree with me, that if we succeed in developing tourism further this will give greater economic power to our province. More employment opportunities will be created in our province and in this way we will also succeed in improving the quality of life of many people. Furthermore tourism also gives us those social opportunities which we sometimes lack. It creates the opportunity for relaxation as well as the opportunity which is lacking with regard to the education of our youth and of the South African community as a whole. In this way tourism brings us to another facet, ie it links us to the rest of Africa and the rest of the world. Politically tourism can help us to bridge the gaps and become acquainted with our past as well as with the challenges of other communities. We can also give those communities the opportunity to become acquainted with our challenges and our problems. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is a privilege to speak after the hon member for Mamre, Mr Abe Williams. I want to thank him for his positive contribution to this debate. We know him to be a loyal South African and we appreciate his achievements here and when he represented our country overseas.

†There are two matters today that I wish to deal with. I want to get away from the political debate and look at the budget for we are after all dealing with the budget of the Cape Province. There are two aspects I want to deal with. The first one is that of the Provincial Revolving Loan Fund and the second one the question of Black housing within the Cape Province.

Dealing firstly then with the revolving fund, as it is normally called, I have noticed that people in general and even colleagues in the Standing Committee on Provincial Affairs: Cape Province are a little at sea with regard to the purpose and the function of this very important and extremely useful financial vehicle. The revolving fund plays a vital part in the budgeting and operation of the province’s finance. The fund was established in accordance with the provisions laid down in the Provincial Capital and Loan Funds Ordinance, 1962.

By establishing the fund it became possible for us to make the best use of moneys which, prior to 1962, were held in certain capital and reserve funds of the province. The purpose of the fund may be defined as the making of short-term loans at a low interest rate primarily to the provincial administration for disbursement from the revenue account for the construction of trunk and other roads, and also, by way of exception, to finance capital works. In addition, loans can also be made to divisional councils, regional services councils and municipalities for the acquisition of road-building plant and for road construction works.

Loans to local authorities were previously made from the resources of the Provincial Road Fund, the capital of which amounted to approximately R10 million and was absorbed into the Provincial Revolving Loan Fund. Details of the various funds which were amalgamated to form the Provincial Revolving Loan Fund are given as an addendum to the preliminary balance sheet—which was prepared recently—as at 31 March 1988 by the province, together with particulars of additional sums voted at various times to strengthen the fund.

At the time the fund was established it was envisaged that the capital available would be augmented by half-yearly interest payments in respect of loans that had been made. The levying of an interest rate of 3% per annum was instituted in order to ensure a small annual increase in the capital available.

To provide for further automatic increments of the fund, in addition to the interest on loans made from the fund—I referred to this previously— interest at ruling Treasury rates is levied on the capital sums made available for use in connection with the operation of the administration’s capitalised trading accounts. These trading accounts—hospital and school requisite stores, etc—function on a business basis. In this way interest on capital and rental in respect of premises occupied is reflected in their overheads, in addition to salaries, wages, railage, packaging, etc. This interest, as well as the rentals charged in respect of accommodation provided by the administration, must in terms of section 3(h) and (i) of Ordinance 3 of 1962, be paid into the fund— which ensures that there is an annual increase in the available capital. The combined annual increment in respect of the interest on loans made from the fund, plus interest and rental charged to the capitalised trading accounts, thus allow for gradual expansion of the purposes for which the fund was created—which, as I stated earlier, is intended primarily for road construction. The establishment of the Revolving Fund, essentially for use within the framework of the province’s accounting system, is intended to ensure that reasonable medium-term forward planning of road construction can be embarked upon. A primary purpose of the fund is the financing of road construction itself; and as the construction or reconstruction of any given route may stretch over a period of three to five years from the time the initial planning is done until the completion of the road, there is a need for certainty that sufficient funds will be available over this period so as to permit the orderly planning of manpower and plant resources.

In those cases where the construction of roads is left to contractors, the knowledge that sufficient funds are available, no matter how long the period may be in respect of which the tenderer has contracted, permits the contract to be spread over a number of financial years.

An analysis of the estimates of revenue for the year ended 31 March 1989 reveals that receipts from the Revolving Fund for this year are expected to total R144 754 000, whilst interest and rental charges generated by the fund will yield an additional R6,5 million. The former amount will be appropriated in terms of Vote 4J and 4K to “construction and reconstruction” of roads, “surveys and fees of consulting engineers” and expropriations, as well as “loans to local authorities”. The sum of R6,5 million will be appropriated to the Revolving Loan Fund itself in terms of Vote 1B.7.

The assets of the fund as at 31 March 1988 amounted to R385 771 000 and consisted of current loans to local authorities and provincial administrations, and of cash on hand.

It will be seen therefore that this fund plays a stabilising role in the finances of the province and is a major factor in assisting the maintenance and extension of the road network of the Cape.

I think that we should consider adjusting the interest rate of 3%. While appreciating the inflationary aspect of the suggestion it is nevertheless something that I think the province should look at because it would most certainly strengthen the fund considerably if the interest rate was increased by 1% or more.

I now want to turn to the question of Black housing in the Cape Province. The Administrator of the Cape, Mr Gene Louw, recently made a most enlightening statement relating to Black housing in this province. He indicated that with the abolition of development boards the function of developing Black communities was transferred to the Provincial Administration. He pointed out that the CPA investigated the needs of Blacks after the Administration had signed an agreement of co-operation with the SA Housing Trust.

It was discovered that the immediate need for Black housing in the Cape Province was approximately 111 000 units. At an estimated average cost of R10 000 per plot and R10 000 per house this meant that the minimum immediate need amounted to a staggering R2 000 million. This amount does not include the initial cost of the acquisition of the township land which is paid for by central Government.

It is common knowledge that the Cape Provincial Administration applied to central Government for an amount of R475 million for their 1988-89 financial year. It appears that the province has only been allocated an amount of approximately R110 million. If we are to seriously tackle the socio-economic problems facing our Black communities in the Cape and if we want to eliminate unhealthy conditions and squatter settlements we must support the Administrator and his MECs, Mr Koos Theron and Mr Nyati, and the CPA with their representations to central Government for the allocation of a more realistic contribution for Black housing. With the greatest respect, the allocated amount of R110 million is hopelessly too little.

We in Government are only too aware of the many and varied demands being made on the Treasury for South Africa’s needs. I believe, however, that unless we apply more funds to Black housing and Black community development we will inevitably experience growing unrest and dissatisfaction.

Order! I regret to inform the hon member that his time has expired.

Mr Chairman, I rise merely to afford the hon member the opportunity to continue with his speech.

Mr Chairman, I thank the hon Whip.

It is true that the Government cannot provide all the housing for Blacks. The private sector must also accept the challenge. The SA Housing Trust has been established to assist builders, developers and private people to finance housing at an interest rate of 8% per annum. At a Press conference recently the hon the Minister of Public Works and Land Affairs, Mr P T C du Plessis, pointed out that “while there was never enough money for housing” the Government nevertheless spent R1,64 billion on housing last year. Of this R400 million was advanced to the SA Housing Trust on an interest-free basis to encourage the private sector.

We must of course realise and concede that South Africa and therefore the Cape Province have been through a very difficult financial period for approximately three years with minimal growth. The latest indications, however, are that we are emerging from that slump and that the economy of the country has turned around. The first quarter of 1988 reflects a growth rate of 4%. There is no question but that we are now in an upswing. If this upswing is allowed to develop in a controlled manner the result will undoubtedly be an increase of funds available to the central Government. We support the sentiments of the Administrator that it is of utmost importance that central Government in the future makes sufficient funds available through the National Housing Fund to ensure that the CPA can carry out the necessary development for Black housing and for our Black communities.

A final thought is that we are entering a new era of privatisation. The Cape Province will in the process also look at rationalising assets. In this process we may find that certain buildings owned by the province are not being utilised to the full and could be disposed of. If the province finds this to be so and sells the property this could constitute a valuable additional source of funds for further infrastructure. Perhaps old administration board surplus assets may be available. We must examine every aspect in this regard carefully and see if we cannot employ all our resources for the benefit of all the people of the Cape Province.

Mr Chairman, I deem it a great privilege to address this Cape Provincial Joint Sitting. I say it is a privilege because here we have an opportunity to hear each other and I, coming from the Black representatives of this country, would like to say certain things for the benefit, information and consideration of all hon members seated in this House.

I regard the provincial administration as an important component of government and as such the provincial administration in the first place must be just in its government. When I say just, it must cater for the welfare of all its citizens. In South Africa we have too many discriminatory laws—discriminatory against people on racial grounds. The Black people are oppressed in this country. Nobody can deny that. There is a hue and cry in the country to eradicate these discriminatory laws and to liberate the people, and the provincial administration could play a very important role in eradicating this evil. The Black people had been neglected for far too long. When I talk about the Blacks, I am talking about the people other than the Whites. We have First and Third World conditions in this country. We have heard of this. A lot of people are talking about it. However, the fact remains that Third World conditions do exist in this country and what are we doing about it? I state that the Whites are a privileged group in this country. They were selfish, preserved a lot of things for themselves and neglected the other groups.

Job reservation was done away with recently. In this time and era the Administrator of the Cape Province was trying to impose beach apartheid. It is disgraceful. We learn to project for the future and nobody in this House can deny that we are looking at the future. Everybody knows in which direction we have to move. We came to Parliament, to this tricameral system—which I regard as a passing phase, albeit a very important phase—so that everybody can hear us and listen to what we have to say because we represent the voice of the oppressed people in this country. We represent their feelings and their way of thinking. I stand here not as an irresponsible person but as a responsible person who cares for the welfare and the future of this country, because I live here under happy circumstances.

There has to be stability and peace in the future. How will we get this? I am not so concerned about political power. Of course, political power is a means to an end. [Time expired]

Mr Chairman, I am grateful to be a part of this historic event and to be able to make history too. Allow me to express my thanks and appreciation to the Administrator and his committee.

This afternoon I am participating here as a South African, who lays claim to all the facilities which this country offers. I have become a part of reform. I came here because I was part of the solution and not of the problem. In this respect certain organisations must also support us.

I now come back to the province. I would be the first to admit that these people are working under difficult circumstances, particularly as regards finances. Would it not be better if we did away with the duplication of facilities? Then the money would go further and we could put our shoulders to the wheel and work harder. We are concerned with what is best for the province and for South Africa. That is the crux of the matter. We are not here to score political debating points. We only want what is best for the Cape Province and for South Africa. The authorities must support us in this.

During a recent visit to Australia I was attacked by the Black Power movement. However, all they are concerned about is group areas and apartheid. I could point out the many laws which we had changed, and how we had effected many changes since we came here. We began to dismantle apartheid. I could point this out to them. How much better would it not have been if we could have abolished those other hurtful laws? Would we not then be able to put our case better abroad?

Next year we are going to have another budget. I am asking hon members: Would it be right for us to have to agree to a budget which discriminated against us? This is something we must give serious attention to.

Open beaches was another matter on which I was attacked. When one arrives in South Africa by plane one sees the beautiful beaches with their white sand. It is an absolute paradise. However, when it comes to the reality one finds that these beaches are reserved for certain population groups. Why is there discrimination in respect of beaches? I can give hon members the assurance that if those beaches were thrown open no one would lose his identity as a result. [Interjections.] People would not flock to those beaches in their thousands. After all, we learnt in the past that when certain legislation was abolished there was not an increase. When that law was abolished there was not a great deal of intermarrying. The same would apply if those beaches were thrown open. People would not flock there in their thousands.

What is the policy in respect of open beaches? Is it going to be a gradual process, and how is it going to be applied? Furthermore, what is the position with regard to the marinas? Is the Group Areas Act going to apply there too? I would appreciate it if we could be given information on this. We can turn this country, and the Cape Province in particular, into a paradise.

I think it was the hon member for Soutpansberg who said—at any rate this is the policy of his party—that people must be compartmentalised. They advocate the policy of partition.

How much is it going to cost?

It is going to cost a lot of money. It is going to cost millions of rands, if it can be implemented.

For that reason we support the policy of reform because the hon the State President has irrevocably committed himself to the reform process, and the purpose of our participation here is to support his policy and to support him in the realisation of that reform process.

However, I want to say that with the policy of partition those people who are moderate are going to become militant. I can tell hon members that the House of Representatives will become militant if a policy of partition is introduced. We are not prepared to move backwards or to reverse. We are not prepared to do that.

We are also committed to reform. We are committed to co-operation. We are committed to working together to give our people outside their rightful share and to ensure that they will get their rightful share in the new South Africa which I believe will come into existence soon.

Without the CP.

It will be a South Africa in which everyone can live as a human being, and not as a Coloured, a Black and an Afrikaner, and where we will have one fatherland, South Africa. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure for me to speak after the hon member for Britstown, in the sense that I also come from the North-Western Cape, from the Upington district. While he was speaking this morning with the typical accent of that region, I could not help thinking of the springbok and all the other game up there in our part of the world.

I also wish to pay tribute to you today, Sir. This is an historic day. It marks the beginning of things that I hope will grow in our country until we eventually achieve the ideals to which so many members have referred this morning. To you, Sir, who played an important part in making this possible for us, I should like to convey my thanks and appreciation.

I want to pay tribute today to the Department of Nature and Environmental Conservation in the Cape Province, and especially to our competent and dedicated officials. I wish them every success in their endeavours. I should also like to convey my best wishes to the MEC, Mr Adams, for the great task with which he is entrusted. I wish them everything of the best for the future.

Education is a top priority in the conservation of the environment; in fact, it is one of the department’s fastest-growing functions. There is continuous and increasing liaison and co-operation with organised game groups. The department also provides an advisory service for game farmers. In order to keep professional hunters abreast of new developments, several briefing sessions have been held. There are many hunting enthusiasts in the Cape Province, and a large number of them have been registered as professional hunters. Many have written the theoretical examination that forms part of the requirements for registration.

I am very pleased to announce today that a parliamentary hunting and nature conservation society has recently been formed here in Cape Town. On a previous occasion in the Provincial Council some years ago I said that my love of nature was stimulated by my love of hunting, and this is indeed the case. South Africans are natural hunters. For many of us, in fact, hunting forms an indispensable part of our way of life.

Unfortunately, game is becoming too expensive for the ordinary South African hunter. In this connection, the Department of Nature and Environmental Conservation in the Cape Province has done magnificent work. During the sixties, the game population in the Cape Province was very small, especially when it came to our endangered species. Today the situation has changed completely. Farmers who would like to conserve the environment have been helped to put up proper fences and to introduce game to their farms. In this way, farmers have begun to exercise control over game, and because of the incentives that are offered, they have started to promote game conservation. Today approximately 7,5 million hectares are being used for game conservation in the Cape Province. This area comprises more than 1 200 farms of approximately 5 900 hectares each, on which there are many thousands of buck. Only the open areas of the Cape Province do not yet have an abundant supply of game. Normal observation has shown that the game have multiplied well, and our bigger species of antelope in particular, such as eland, gemsbok and kudu, are found in large numbers today.

There is plenty of small game, of course. I may mention in passing that I was privileged to be up in the Kalahari last weekend, in the Vanzylsrus area, and it was wonderful to see that only the horns of the little springbok were visible above the grass.

In the Orange Free State, in the reserve called Tussen Die Riviere, a hundred packages of different kinds of game are made available to hunters each year. In terms of the prices paid by trophy hunters, these packages are very cheap indeed. It is possible to argue, therefore, as some people do, that the State is in fact subsidising the prices. The other part of Tussen Die Riviere, which is on the Cape Province side, has been made available by the province to the University of the Orange Free State for research purposes. Perhaps this illustrates the attitude adopted by the department in the Cape Province.

In accordance with the management plan of the Cape department, a decision is taken annually or from time to time as to the number of game that should be removed from a particular area. When the numbers are very high, they are reduced drastically, and then the game are allowed to multiply again in the natural way. Large numbers of game are caught and sold by auction to farmers, by whom they are then distributed and thus resettled. Quite a lot of game are also sold to farmers at fixed treasury prices. Sometimes, when they have multiplied too rapidly, venison dealers are asked, by way of tender, to shoot the buck that have been caught. This is done over a very short period—two or three days—and involves minimal disturbance of the game.

Because I am aware of the steadfast resistance on the part of the department and the Administrator of the Cape Province to hunting in reserves, I do not intend to advocate that today. I am also aware of the department’s opposition to the idea of a hunting ranch in the Cape Province, and I also want to refer today to representations made in the past by the MEC, Mr A J van Wyk, the former member for Kimberley South. However, times have changed. Looking about me in the Chamber today, I see the enormous change that has taken place in our country. It has been a change for the better. I believe that times have also changed in the sense that the idea of a hunting ranch in the Cape Province can be mooted again. I want to plead for the purchase of land in the North-Western part of the Cape Province for the purposes of such a hunting ranch. On farms patronised by trophy hunters, special rules apply. There are hunting lodges, abattoirs and many luxuries that lead to an enormous escalation of prices. Not only is this beyond the financial means of the vast majority of South African hunters, but it is also not our style. South Africans prefer to spend a night or two in the veld and to enjoy their natural surroundings. It would not therefore be necessary for the province to spend large amounts of money on facilities on such a hunting ranch, therefore. Surplus game from other areas could be resettled there and hunting packages could be made available to members of the South African hunting and nature conservation societies. I believe that the hon the Administrator and the department can be assured of the unanimous support of the Parliamentary hunting and nature conservation society in this connection.

The establishment of a hunting ranch in the Cape Province would not involve any extra expenditure for the State. Hunting packages made available only to members of the South African hunting societies could generate enough money to pay for the ranch and to cover the current expenditure. This does not mean that the State should interfere with private initiative, but would simply be the realisation of the ideals of a group of South Africans who love the soil in the tradition of the farmer.

Unfortunately, my time is very limited, but in the second part of my speech, I should like to associate myself with the hon member for Caledon, who spoke about marine conservation and control and the financing of this. In the June 1988 edition of the publication called Insig it says that a great deal of attention is being given to the destruction of the layer of ozone that surrounds the earth and the effect this may have on the world climate, but what about the destruction of our submarine source of oxygen? In The Vital Seas, a publication of the environment programme of the United Nations, it is estimated that the microscopic plants in the oceans provide a quarter of the world’s oxygen. Are we suffocating them with our plastic rubbish?

†The use of non-biodegradable materials in fishing-gear and packaging is resulting in high mortality among marine mammals like dolphins, whales, sea-otters etc. The most common synthetic material used is plastic. Manufacturing of plastic has grown so rapidly since its development just over 40 years ago that enough sheet plastic was produced in 1970 to place our entire planet in one giant bag. The additional production of Styrofoam that year was enough to cover all the oceans of the earth. In countries where the problems have been documented, the vast majority of persistent plastics currently found in the marine environment appeared to have originated in the fishing industry. This includes fishing gear, abandoned netting and a range of plastic trash. Pleasure boats, sports fishing, drilling rigs, cruise ships, navies, research vessels, cargo ships and oil tankers also contribute large amounts of plastic trash. Land sources such as municipal stormwater run-off may also be a factor in some areas. More than 50 000 ships sail the sea, their crews numbering 1½ million. [Time expired]

Mr Chairman, I must begin by saying that this is indeed an historic occasion. It is regrettable, therefore, that the hon members of the CP chose to withdraw at such an early stage.

Something one cannot help noticing about the CP, of course, is their peculiar attitude. On the standing committees, they usually abstain from voting. They withdraw. They do not participate. The hon member of the CP told us that his party represented 22 seats in the Transvaal. I only hope the voters of the Transvaal approve of the CP’s withdrawal, of its refusal to participate and its abstention from voting.

The hon member said that his party was supported by 30 000 voters in the Free State. In spite of that, they withdraw from the proceedings, they do not participate and they abstain from voting. I really think those voters should reconsider this matter in the light of the step taken here by their representatives.

†Mr Chairman, I also strongly want to endorse the tear-jerking speech the hon member for Mamre so boldly delivered here this morning in relation to the hon Mr Nyati. To my mind it was a real tear-jerker, specifically in view of the sacrifice he is said to have made.

Strangely enough, I noted that three previous speakers addressed themselves to the issue of nature conservation. I asked myself what was going to happen. I had prepared a speech on nature conservation, and these three hon members all spoke on the very same topic. What I want to do, however, is make out a case for nature-conservation officers to be trained and employed by the provincial administration. The Cape Province has under its jurisdiction about 43 nature-conservation reserves. Apart from those there are also 78 such reserves under the jurisdiction of local authorities.

I am a representative of a poor community. I am a concerned person because we have thousands of matriculants roaming the streets of Cape Town. I am aware of the fact that we know where we are going. We have a short-term need and also a long-term goal. In this whole process, however, we also have to bear in mind the thousands of underprivileged and unemployed. We have to do that while bearing in mind what we want and where we are going.

By the end of this year there will be a further 5 000 to 7 000 school-leavers who will be joining the ranks of the unemployed matriculants. In view of this fact I want to make an urgent plea. In view of the fact that nature conservation has enjoyed such prominence here today and has been supported so strongly by previous speakers in this debate, I want to ask whether the time has not come for this particular aspect be given its place of maximum importance and that a high premium be placed on it.

In this particular regard I want to make the following suggestion. On 1 July the province is opening its training school for traffic officers. Is it not time for the hon the Administrator to give the same priority to this very important aspect? I suggest that a similar type of training school be established for the training of nature-conservation officers. Then, I believe, we can be sure the task of nature conservation will really come into its own.

Mr Chairman, I read the definition given in Custos. It states:

Mr Chairman, if this definition is internationally accepted, then I think it is high time that emphasis and a higher premium be placed upon this. Custos goes on to say—

I want to go further in this regard. When we look at the situation of nature conservation, I believe that there are approximately 2 695 posts to deal with this matter. The question I wish to put to the hon the Administrator is: How many people of colour are employed in these posts? I should also like to know whether it is possible that new posts are going to be created in the ensuing year. I ask this question because it is becoming an increasingly important issue. I know for a fact that there are honorary nature conservation officers. I also know for a fact that traffic officers are honorary nature conservation officers. However, we must also remember that these people do not concentrate and place the same emphasis upon this particular matter as would be the case if they had been trained for the job. I do feel that the time has come for people of colour to be employed in this regard.

One reads in the Press that over the past number of months quite a few people have been arrested for offences in regard to nature conservation. The people I have referred to could be utilised to control such matters as stock-theft and also the protection of our bait resources, for example.

*There are many matters that these people could see to, and I believe the time has come to train people in this connection. When we look at the coastline that falls under the hon the Administrator, we see that it extends for approximately 2 500 kilometres from East London all the way to Walvis Bay. That entire coastline has to be patrolled. I am asking, therefore, whether this small group of nature conservation officers can possibly do justice to this important task of nature conservation.

†In this regard there is a certain anomaly that one finds. It is apparently felt that people of colour do not place the same emphasis upon this matter as the Whites do. Let us take a situation in an area populated by people of colour, such as the Cape Flats. Because of the socio-political situation people are forced to squat in these particular areas. One cannot blame the women who live in these areas and accuse them of being the biggest destroyers of nature. The mother is the one who has to keep the pot boiling. She is the one who has to prepare the family meal. What does she do for fuel?

*All she can do is to destroy the surrounding vegetation, no matter how valuable it may be. She must keep her fire going and make sure that the food will be cooked when her children come home. The little one who accompanies her does not know that those plants should not be broken or pulled out. He simply accepts the fact that wood is required for making a fire. That is why I feel it is time we realised the importance of addressing the socio-political circumstances of our Blacks on the Cape Flats without delay.

Mr Chairman, I should like to congratulate the hon member who has just resumed his seat on a very positive contribution.

In the few minutes at my disposal I should like to refer briefly to two aspects and confine myself specifically to the Northern Cape, the area of our beautiful province which is actually far away from Cape Town.

The first aspect I want to refer to is the major contribution by the Cape Provincial Administration during the recent rain and flood damage. I should like to have my thanks placed on record specifically for the contribution made by the Office for Community Services in Kimberley.

On 4 March the hon member for De Aar and I were privileged to accompany MECs and senior officials of the CPA on a visit to these flood-ravaged areas. What struck us was the thoroughness with which everything was planned. On our arrival, for example, we were provided with a document which contained a summary of all the damage in every town and everything which had already been done to relieve the problems. Owing to a lack of time I shall only mention a few of the places we visited.

At Ritchie, Modderrivier, we were shown that approximately 3 000 people had been left homeless, 507 houses had been destroyed, and 130 tents as well as 100 blankets had been provided. Emergency rations were issued to 18 150 people.

At Douglas 7 490 people of all population groups had been left homeless. Emergency rations were issued to 28 700 people.

At Jan Kempdorp, Valspan, where the Black residential area in particular was hard hit, 1 366 people had been left homeless and approximately 300 houses had collapsed.

At Warrenton, Ikhutseng—this is the Black township there—1 806 people had been left homeless and approximately 300 houses had been unable to withstand the force of the water.

Suffice it to say that the CPA helped to relieve the plight of thousands of people and is still helping with the restoration and the improvement of services in this entire area. I merely want to refer to the improvement of community services, and am deliberately not mentioning the major role played in the repair of roads and bridges, because I believe other hon members on this side of the House will refer to this.

I want to express my sincere thanks to the hon the Administrator, every hon MEC and every official, and I think that goes for every hon member of this committee as well as every member of the community outside, for their compassion and for their actions which show that we care about each other. I believe this is the attitude which we need more than anything else in South Africa, an attitude of caring about each other.

The second aspect I want to refer to is Black housing. In this regard I should like to associate myself with the hon member for King William’s Town, but I am referring specifically to the Northern Cape and, if I may define it more closely, Development Area B.

Last year the standing committee referred specifically in recommendations 5.15 and 5.16 to the housing of Black communities. In recommendation 5.15 it was stated that the committee was of the opinion that the funds allocated were inadequate and that urgent attention had to be given to this matter. In the comments of the Executive Committee they also endorsed this standpoint. Today I also want to say that one is grateful that the hon the Administrator has made it clear that to a certain extent this has been acceded to.

If one looks at the Cape metropolitan area where approximately 35 000 serviced sites and approximately 5 000 houses are needed, it would seem as if the Northern Cape, where the shortage is only approximately 9 900 houses and 8 500 sites, has nothing to complain about. However, the problem in the Northern Cape is that the Black population is to a large extent burdened by unemployment and a low income structure.

Another factor is that Black towns such as the one at Vryburg and Vaalspan at Jan Kempdorp were to be moved, with the result that no development could take place in those towns for several years.

Furthermore what I said at the outset regarding the effect of the rain and the floods in February and March of this year must also be borne in mind, and this has made the housing backlog even worse.

The special job creation programme announced by the Government affords a welcome source of finance for projects and also provides an income to many unemployed persons. By means of these projects 1 900 sites have so far been provided with water and 149 houses have been built.

Owing to the position of trust which has built up between the officials of the CPA and most of the Black local governments in this area, almost all of them remained steadfast in the face of intimidation during the riots. In 1987 a special financial allocation was also made to these towns in the Northern Cape.

As a result of this allocation several projects could be identified and have now been completed or are in various stages of completion. Projects vary from high-mast lighting at Jan Kempdorp, Olifantshoek and elsewhere, to créches at Vryburg, Daniëlskuil and Barkly West, community halls at Reivilo, Douglas and Delportshoop, and several houses at Warrenton, Daniëlskuil and Griekwastad.

During the past two years there have also been negotiations for with the National Housing Commission for funds for the carrying out of several projects. Recently the National Housing Commission approved supported self-help building projects which involved the erection of 1 160 houses, and funds for the erection of 387 houses have already been voted. A self-help building scheme has been launched with great success at Galeshewe near Kimberley, and a total of 251 houses have been completed, while a further 78 are in the process of being built.

Arising from this success the concept of supported self-help building has been enthusiastically accepted in 15 Black towns in the Northern Cape. The Office for Community Services in the Northern Cape provides the necessary technical assistance to the self-help builders. Furthermore an agreement has been reached with the Northern Cape Training Centre that they will provide unemployed persons with training in the building trade free of charge for supported self-help building schemes.

If one considers everything that is being done, one is grateful for the dedication of officials and for projects which could be tackled and completed.

The entire matter of housing in the Northern Cape, as in the case in the rest of the Cape and South Africa, revolves around two questions. The first question is where we will get enough money to meet all the needs. In the Northern Cape, as I have said, we have a shortage of approximately 10 000 houses. Calculated at R10 000 per house, as the hon member for King William’s Town said a while ago, this amounts to approximately R100 million. One can make one’s own calculations and work out for oneself what the position is in the rest of the Cape.

I therefore believe that we will have to get our employers increasingly involved and that we must take a serious look at the standard of housing, particularly when the State must provide houses itself.

The second question is where we will get enough land for all these urban areas. The number of people is increasing, but the land available for housing is decreasing.

Possibly we shall have to give far more attention to vertical housing instead of horizontal housing. The average population density of the 102 Black towns in the Cape is 9,25 persons per site, and to bring this population density down to a more acceptable 6,8 persons per site, approximately 80 000 serviced sites are needed, based on present numbers.

This is indeed a virtually impossible task, but something which I believe will have to be done, because even if we were to create the best structures, in which we could also make the Black man part of the decision-making process at the highest level, and even if we could plan for these structures and this system of government to be within the financial capability of South Africa, I believe that we would still lose the fight against the enemies of South Africa if we did not meet the basic need of the people for a roof over their heads. [Time expired.]

Business interrupted at 12h35 and resumed at 14h15.

Mr Chairman, thank you very much for the privilege. Before I start I should like to ask whether I cannot use the time of the hon members of the CP. [Interjections.]

Order! No, the hon member is only entitled to make a 10 minute speech.

I want to react briefly to the speech which the hon member for Soutpansberg made here. This afternoon I am proud to say, in the first place, that I am able to speak here in the provincial committee with hon members of all three Houses. I am also proud to be able to say that the LP did teach the CP something, namely the boycotts and walkouts dating from the time of the old CRC. [Interjections.] I must congratulate them in absentia.

As regards the provincial estimate, I should like to talk about roads today. Sir, if you know where I actually come from … [Interjections.] According to the old proverb the way to a man’s heart is through his stomach, but in our part of the world the way to a man’s heart is over a donkey, because when one runs over a donkey one sometimes does not even notice.

Today I should like to know—joking aside!— what the province’s policy actually is with regard to roads. Over the years roads were subsidised by the province, local authorities and divisional councils. Now we come to our Coloured residential areas. Significantly, and as regards the local authority level, my actual concern is for the safety of our people there, and particularly our children, because some of our gravel roads (padstrate) are, apart from the dust, in such a dreadful state that if one does not travel on them at 180 km/h one cannot stay on the road. Now hon members can imagine what misery is sometimes caused here by clouds of dust. People eat, sleep and live in dust.

Under subhead B.1 of Vote 4, I see an amount of R47,269 million. This was the revised amount voted for 1987-88 for maintenance, repairs and betterment of roads. Under subhead B.2, construction of roads, R16 million has been voted, and under subhead B.3, subsidies to local authorities for road construction and maintenance, R69 106 000. How do these subsidies affect our respective local authorities? How do they affect the need for bus stops and taxi ranks at local government level?

I am going to mention a real problem to the House. The hon member referred to Springbok, and I am also going to refer to Namaqualand. There is a large and established transport company in Namaqualand, which operates a daily bus service between Springbok and Cape Town, between Springbok and Kakamas and other areas. Since the days of the defunct relations committee, representations have been made to the local authority and the relevant bus companies to provide proper bus stops and taxi ranks. However, they did not see their way clear to meeting that need. The relevant bus companies said, for example, that they were paying thousands of rands to the province every year in the form of vehicle licences and the provinces subsidised local authorities and divisional councils annually.

On page 43, under Vote 4, subhead B.3, under Divisional Councils R83 117 000 is being voted in paragraph (a)(1) as a subsidy on revenue-expenditure on main and divisional roads. Under subhead B.3, paragraph (a)(2), special projects, the amount being voted is R15 598 000. Under municipalities under subhead B.3(b), subsidy on maintenance and betterment of main roads, the amount being voted is R8 million. Has the time not eventually come for the expenditure on and subsidising of divisional councils and local authorities by the province to receive preference on the basis of need and safety?

Regional allocation will also very definitely have to be investigated, particularly when one considers that on page 43, under Vote 4: Roads and Traffic Administration, R83 117 000 has been voted under subhead B.3(a)(1), subsidies on revenue-expenditure on main and divisional roads, for the 1988-89 financial year.

Next I want to refer to page 41, subhead K, under expenditure to be financed by loans from the Revolving Loan Fund, where the amount voted has decreased by R8 280 000. Apart from main and divisional roads there is still the life-blood of the rural areas, namely minor roads. Today I actually want to ask that minor roads also be subsidised, because it is these roads which get one where one wants to be and this applies specifically in the rural areas. Many of our Coloured children use these roads to get to the nearest schools. If the Administrator considers it necessary I will be glad to provide him with the necessary information. Because the minor road does not qualify for proclamation as a divisional road, and therefore cannot be subsidised, it is not actually a minor (ondergeskikte) road, but an unsuitable (ongeskikte) road.

On the main road from Springbok to Upington, before one reaches Pofadder, the road branches off to Pella, and this is a divisional road. However, that road is in such a bad state that fatal accidents often occur on it. The road from Springbok to Kommaggas is also a divisional road, but no one would dare to travel on this road over the mountain at night. I have frequently discussed this matter with the secretary of the Namaqualand Divisional Council, but time and again I am faced by the same problem, namely that there are no funds available. This road, the divisional road from Buffelsrivier to Kleinsee, and the road which branches off to Kleinsee just before one reaches Port Nolloth, have already claimed many lives because they are in such a bad state that they are unsafe.

Where did all these millions of rands that were voted in the past and that are still being voted go? That is why I am asking this House to give serious consideration to heeding my representations for regional allocations. When I talk about regional allocations hon members will of course know what I mean. If money was allocated to a region then we would like to know from our municipalities that money has been allocated to us and that we have received a certain subsidy and what they have done with this money.

We can curtail expenditure on everything except our road network, because this is the life-blood of the country. If we look at page 41 of the CPA Vote 4, subhead E. 1,2,5 and 6, I personally feel that big cuts can be made in these amounts. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I take pleasure in following the hon member for Springbok. While he was speaking here about the roads, there was an interjection about national roads, and this reminded me of a farmer in the Chairman’s constituency, whom I recently asked if any rain had fallen in his part of the world. He replied: “No, we only had a real national shower.” I asked: “Why do you say that”? And he replied: “All the rain fell on the national road.” I really hope that as regards rain, the hon member for Springbok’s area will also be blessed.

This afternoon I am also standing here anticipating what the hon member for Claremont may say. He is not here today and I think this in fact shows that he has an arrogance towards the parliamentary system in that he requested a turn to speak and has not taken the trouble to be here today. I submit that he is also showing contempt for the parliamentary system. I am of the opinion that at this moment he is probably ferreting around in residential areas with his allies, the Black Sash, the UDF and others, inciting people against the parliamentary system and therefore—I am saying this deliberately—I want to put a few facts on record this afternoon.

I am referring to a residential area matter we have in our constituency, namely the Lawaaikamp matter, which is well-known to many hon members and which is not only being nationalised but also internationalised at the moment, so much so that there are quite a number of overseas Press groups in that area at the moment. I also want to apologise in advance to the Administrator and the MECs because I must travel down this evening to speak to them tomorrow, largely because people like the hon member for Claremont have seized on an opportunity not only to bring this Government into discredit but to discredit certain leaders in this country in connection with that area.

What are the facts? In George there is a residential area called Tembuletu which came into existence in a very short period of time under the direction of the Executive Committee under the Administrator and specifically under the expert guidance of the MEC, Mr Koos Theron. Its original name was Tyalora. The new name was found after there had been a competition among the residents to find a new name. The new name means “new hope”. This residential area developed within a relatively short period.

Let me tell hon members of the PFP at once, with reference to interjections last week in the House of Assembly, that the new residential area is not kilometres from the existing residential area, as was alleged. The precise distance, which I measured on Saturday morning, is 1,4 km. This new residential area came into existence within a relatively short period.

Why, Sir, is it necessary to evacuate Lawaaikamp? In the first place I want to make it clear that it is impossible to redevelop this area while the existing structures are there.

†No proper town planning can be done with the existing structures in this area.

*I want to make it clear that I, like my Government, am opposed to enforced removals. The hon the State President also said so in 1985. I want to state categorically that in this case we are not dealing with enforced removals. The Lawaaikamp matter must be seen as a positive community programme aimed at the upliftment of the Black community. I think the hon gentlemen who are acquainted with this town in the Southern Cape will agree with me that our town has always been known for its good human relations with others. We have always cared about our brothers of colour. At the moment, for example, there is no suggestion that people of colour need move out of existing Coloured residential areas like Urbanville and Borchards.

What are the facts? At the moment there are only approximately 202 structures and approximately 1 000 people left in Lawaaikamp, after about 800 families had moved to the new Black residential areas. This process forms part of our Government’s orderly urbanisation process. George, owing to its strategic position and the fact that it was declared a growth point a number of years ago, lured thousands of people there in this growing process. They thought there would be employment opportunities for them there. In addition there was also the announcement of the envisaged development in the Mossel Bay constituency. However, I want to issue a warning today that at this stage there is absolutely no prospect of additional employment opportunities for people from elsewhere. A large percentage of persons are already unemployed.

At the moment there are approximately 15 000 people in Tembuletu. Up to now an amount of R9 million have been spent in this area. A further R3,5 million will be spent on upgrading services, and I have been informed that a further R17 million is going to be spent on additional community services.

What does this new residential area consist of? Sir, the positive aspects are never emphasized. Only the negative aspects are pointed out—in an effort to get at the Government and to detract from orderly government. In this new residential area there are already two full-fledged schools— a secondary school with 11 classrooms and a primary school with 17 classrooms. As regards sports facilities there are a soccer field and a rugby field, change-rooms and a club house. A second soccer field and a netball court are at present under construction. There is sewerage for the entire area, and water on every site. There is electricity in a third of the first phase of the development area. There are four high-mast lighting poles, two shops—I want to add that the owner of one of these shops is Mr Kenneth Seboto, the former chairman of the George Civic Association—a creche for 100 children and a community work centre. There are three playgrounds with equipment.

†There is also a community health services centre, with a dental clinic which will be completed within the next week or so. There is a daily bus service into the central business district and may I just mention, Sir, that the bus tariff is the same as that from Lawaaikamp.

*There is also a police station which is manned 24 hours a day. There are 250 conventional houses which are nearing completion. They will be completed within the next three weeks or so and will be available to the approximately 202 families at present living in Lawaaikamp. I want to repeat that conventional housing will be available for people who are living in extreme slum conditions at the moment. Does an inhumane Government behave in this way? I repeat that I do not consider this to be enforced removal. However, we must have order in this community, Sir.

Lawaaikamp’s inhabitants are also being compensated by up to R1 000 for their existing shacks, and they are even lent transport by the municipality if they prefer. At present a community farm for Blacks in the vicinity of Tembuletu is also under consideration. I have mentioned that 800 families have already moved.

In conclusion I want to say that we in George consider all people to be equal citizens, and as such we do not begrudge any citizen an orderly community life.

Mr Chairman, in following the hon member for George I should like to say that I have not visited Lawaaikamp personally and I do not know a great deal about the details of what has happened there. I might say that what bothers me is that whereas the hon member talks about the impossibility of the upgrading or redeveloping that area, I was under the impression that once the Black people had moved out, it was going to be upgraded and redeveloped, and then made available to people who are not Black. I might also say, on the weight of evidence over the years, the Government’s record in respect of forced removals, even as of 1987, is one to be ashamed of. We have heard many similar arguments in regard to District Six, that it was not possible to upgrade or redevelop the area without clearing out tens of thousands of people. Last year in December I was at Noordhoek myself where I saw one of the most recent forced removals. Therefore, on the weight of historic evidence I should be inclined to believe many others before I believe the Government on this score.

I wish firstly to refer briefly to the question of provincial government as this is a new feature of that form of government that we are experiencing today. The hon the Administrator referred to “provincial government” a couple of times. As far as I am concerned, provincial government as such does not exist in South Africa today. It is not provincial government. It may be a provincial section of the Department of Constitutional Development and Planning, but “government” in any normal terms of the word does not exist in the province.

Previously, when I was a member of the Cape Provincial Council, given all the racial problems, including the fact that there were only White people on the council and only White voters, there actually were elected provincial councillors, elected members of the executive committee, and an appointed Administrator. Now all these people are appointed, and without casting any aspersions on them as people or their personalities, I wish to point out that they are essentially officials today. These hon members of the executive committee who sit in this Chamber today, represent nobody and they are none other than the appointees of the NP. That is why they are here—they are not elected or representative of anybody in this province.

I find it decidedly odd that we have the situation inside Parhament where elected Members of Parliament from all racial groups in this province, other than Black, are participating in a debate discussing provincial affairs, and it is going to be responded to by people who are essentially officials appointed by the hon the State President, and not by elected members of this Parliament or elected members of any other body.

Today I firstly wish to address myself to this subject of squatters, land and Black housing. All three of these topics have been acute problems for 15 years or more. Controversy, conflict and violence between the authorities and the communities, and within the communities themselves, have been a feature of this period.

This year, 1988, presents a major and perhaps unique opportunity to make giant strides towards resolving many of the main problems that have bedevilled the lives of squatter communities in the Cape Peninsula.

Firstly, there is land available. Old Crossroads covers about 94 ha; at the site south of Lansdowne Road, referred to as Brown’s Farm area, there is about 218 ha; at KTC there is about 50 ha; and at Khayelitsha there is of course a great deal of land.

Secondly, there is some money available. We were told that at Khayelitsha there would be funds available to the extent of R45 million; at Crossroads, R12 million; and at the Brown’s Farm site, R31 million.

As far as KTC is concerned, I do not have figures. Presumably there should be some money available there, too.

Today the right of Black people to be in Cape Town is no longer seriously challenged by the Government as it was a few years ago. For the first time, the elements necessary to tackle the acute housing problems constructively are wholly or partially there. I appeal to the authorities to get it right this time round.

There is an urgent need for houses and service sites. Features of the way in which squatter communities have been treated in the past, have included malicious neglect and broken promises on the part of the Government, hence there is a great deal of suspicion, which is not surprising.

I remain concerned about the slow progress. The proposed 218 hectare site in Lansdowne Road is a constructive step, and I congratulate the MEC and others involved in finding that land. However, what is happening on a broader front? Upgrading is taking place at the pace of a snail. Let us look at KTC as an example. On 24 June 1986, which is nearly two years ago, the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning, in answer to a question as to whether KTC was to be upgraded, said that a greater portion of KTC would be upgraded as the first phase of upgrading the whole area. When he was asked then this would happen, he said that building and construction would commence as soon as the various parties concerned had been negotiated with.

In February 1987, when he was asked what was happening in respect of KTC as far as upgrading was concerned, the answer was, and I quote: “As soon as approval of funds have been obtained, construction of the first phase can be started immediately”. That was in February 1987. Now, in May 1988, what has happened? They are still talking and discussing, but upgrading as such, on any substantial scale, has not taken place.

Last year, and I am not quoting word for word, an MEC said that the people would not be spending another winter in those conditions in which they are living. We are now in winter—and a heavy winter, judging by the last few days we have had here in the Cape—and what has happened? Those people are spending another winter in those conditions. I believe greater urgency is imperative.

Besides the lack of urgency, the rivalry between factions and the absence of democratically elected leaders, remains an enormous problem. It is of critical importance that the allocation of sites in the upgrading schemes be done with the utmost sensitivity and impartiality. Unfortunately, I have serious doubts that this will happen. The temptation for the authorities to appoint compliant war-lords as official leaders seems irresistible. Twice in the past year the Supreme Court has overruled the Administrator in his attempts to impose leaders in contravention of the law. Two years ago, in a shameful forced removal, the authorities supported compliant war-lords in their armed assault on tens of thousands of other squatters. Arson, murder and devastation were the result. I appeal to the Government not to take sides, even if it serves their short-term interests. The Government should get on with upgrading and proper elections as a matter of urgency. The Government should not squander this unique opportunity that it has.

The final point I wish to refer to is pensions. It is about time that discrimination against Blacks in respect of old-age pensions be stopped. Discrimination takes place in a number of ways. The pension itself is only 54% of the White pension. Pensions are only paid bi-monthly. They cannot be paid directly into bank or building society accounts, and tens of thousands of eligible Black people are not receiving pensions at present.

In August last year, the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning, told us that the necessary steps have been taken to implement the phasing in of monthly payments. The target date was 1 April 1987 for phasing in over three financial years. However, it still has not happened. They are still not available. I want to know when they are going to become available.

Paying these pensions into accounts is also one of the problems, because banks and building societies require a minimum balance. I would like to make an appeal today to banks and building societies, particularly at a time that they are competing vigorously for the savings of senior citizens, to please do something to assist the poorest pensioners of all. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, on the previous occasion I wanted to refer in my speech to the separate amenities legislation by saying that the objectives of this legislation are to free the Government from the responsibility of providing equal facilities for all population groups. As long as this legislation is on the Statute Book there will never really be equal facilities for all population groups.

The report of the President’s Council on the abolition of this legislation has been under consideration by the Government for almost a year now and there is not yet any positive, purposeful sign that there is going to be a reaction to this.

I now want to discuss Vote 10, Community Services, and refer briefly to the entire matter of Black local government. In my previous speech I referred to the fact that the system we now have for provincial government is not perfect. There is room for improvement. Government spokesmen gave the assurance that the last word on reform at this second tier of government had not yet been spoken.

The present system—regardless of how acceptable it is—is far better than the old system of White provincial councils which it replaced. I am convinced that it is through the confluence of this deficient initiative on the part of the Government and the reaction of the unfranchised community that it may be possible to resolve checkmate situations in our country and reach compromises on the problems confronting us.

The present Constitution has several shortcomings. The Labour Party’s Eshowe resolution was criticised because we decided to participate in the system although we rejected the Constitution. However, several positive reforms have already resulted from this system. I want to refer, for example, to the abolition of influx control. This deficient Parliament removed one of the worst provisions from the Statute Book, namely section 10 of the legislation on Black consolidation in urban areas. This amounted to the recognition of all Black people as an inherent part of South Africa.

As recently as three years ago Black people were not yet recognised by this Government as permanent inhabitants of South Africa. Today this is the case. Reforms such as the acceptance of Black citizenship and the recognition of their right to own property in fact led to one of the most prominent critics of this system, the former leader of the PFP, Dr van Zyl Slabbert, having to admit this weekend in an article in the Sunday Times that participation in our set-up is virtually the only option to bring about change in South Africa.

The province is to a large extent the heir of the old development boards. Although this system is unacceptable it is a far better system than the old dispensation, and during the two years in which the provincial executive committees have been in existence we have seen them make rapid progress, particularly in the sphere of Black housing and freehold. One can take a look at KwaMagxaki where beautiful houses have been built. Just across the road from this residential area one sees the squatter camps. Then one realises how bitter these people really were; they could afford such beautiful palaces, but they were forced to live in those squatter camps because they were never given a chance.

The shortage of Black housing, as the hon member for King William’s Town pointed out, is at present 110 000 dwelling units in the Cape Province. It goes without saying that there is an astronomical need and that this is a major problem which will have to be dealt with at this level of government.

I want to dwell briefly on Khayelitsha and in the same context refer to the Group Areas Act. Apart from the arguments of social discrimination, provisions of the Group Areas Act also amount to economic discrimination. Through the Group Areas Act the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning and the Cabinet are able to control prosperity.

They can determine how large the areas for people of colour must be and where they must be situated. At Khayelitsha it was decided to settle approximately 400 000 people on approximately 2 000 ha. Approximately 45 000 units will have to be built. Owing to the fact that the area cannot accommodate this number of people, one finds that there is an absolute imbalance today owing to the population density. Approximately 30% of the land has been allocated to housing and the remaining 70% to open spaces, schools, business premises, auxiliary services and roads. The result is that a family of seven or eight people must be accommodated on a site measuring 112 square metres. On this piece of land a house must be built and there must be place for parking. What is more the building regulations must be complied with and provision must also be made for the possibility of extending the house.

I want to ask the hon MECs entrusted with this matter whether they are not in the process of building a First World squatter camp there. Why do they not negotiate for more land so that the plots there can be bigger and the extension possibilities better? Owing to this imbalance between the land for housing and the land for open spaces, schools, business premises and roads, one finds that the land and the plots in Khayelitsha costs R57 per square metre. Next door, in Bluedowns, where the private sector is in the process of developing houses for Coloured people, land costs R27 per square metre. However, because a person has a Black skin he must pay double the price to go and live in Khayelitsha. If that is not discrimination then I do not know what discrimination is.

I want to come back to another aspect which is very dear to my heart and this concerns the entire matter of private sector development. Recently the hon the Administrator announced that the housing problems of the Black community in the Cape Province were going to be considered creatively. I should like to wish him everything of the best in this regard. I think the initiatives to get the Urban Foundation and the Housing Trust involved in this are good and can have positive results.

Something which has been a thorn in my side for some time now concerns proclamations which have cost implications for private sector developers inter alia. In this regard I want to refer, for example, to the proclamation concerning the connection of electricity. In the new climate and approach where the private sector is being used specifically to solve housing problems, in my opinion these proclamations with cost implications must be reconsidered. Today the situation is that a private sector developer does virtually everything. For example, he connects the cables, but he must still pay R150 for this connection to the province or regional services council. I think this is simply another form of indirect taxation and urgent attention must be given to these and similar proclamations.

With reference to the scenario I sketched regarding Khayelitsha I also want to ask the hon the Administrator and his officials to negotiate with private sector developers when these people are involved in solving the housing problems. They must not come forward with a one-sided structural plan and tell the developers that this or that is the framework within which they will have to develop. They must sit down around a table together and see how the available land can be utilised to the optimum and as cost-effectively as possible. Then there will not be a repetition of the Khayelitsha problem.

I also want to say something about the Group Areas Act. Our committee recommended that we consider the fact that the provinces administer this Act as immoral, discriminatory and a waste of money. Today the hon member for Kimberley North said something with which I should like to agree. He said our attitude should be one of caring about each other. In this regard I want to refer to a certain Mrs M J Rutter of 6 Hull Street, Kimberley. She is a so-called Coloured who was born in Griekwastad in South Africa. On 30 July 1985 she married a British citizen and she returned to South Africa with him—this time not as a Coloured but as a British citizen. Owing to the fact that we are dealing here with a case where a White man married a Coloured and because she originally came from South Africa and was classified as a Coloured they had to apply for a permit to live at 6 Hull Street, Kimberley. This application was refused by the provincial authorities on 21 October. The procedure adopted in this case was that the MP consulted some of the residents in that area regarding the matter. They said they did not see their way clear to living next door to a Coloured. Because of this the application was refused. Sir, this kind of behaviour is immoral; there is no suggestion of caring about each other in this procedure. The time has now come for the Government to see to what extent they can satisfy the CP and to what extent they can build a peaceful future in this country with other South Africans. Then they must act on the basis of equality. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I take pleasure in following the hon member Mr Lockey. I merely want to tell him that if he puts his representations, which in my opinion he made in a very responsible way here this afternoon, calmly I am sure he will get results. One must simply not be in too much of a hurry.

As the MP for Queenstown I would also very much have liked to talk about Black housing this afternoon. However, I was asked to talk about something else. I merely want to say that I agree wholeheartedly with the hon member for King William’s Town regarding his representations and I wish to assure the Executive Committee that I feel very strongly about high-class housing for wealthy Blacks in my constituency. I do not see why a wealthy man should have to live in the “townships”. I want to assure the Executive Committee that they have my support when it comes to high-class housing for Blacks.

The matter I have been asked to talk about and which I should like to say a few words about this afternoon concerns a very important institution in the community life of our country. This is the old institution of organising agricultural shows in virtually every town and city in our country. In the Cape there are 93 registered agricultural societies and in the past financial year 77 agricultural shows were held here in our province. We can hardly overestimate the farming value of an agricultural show. A farmer who has not yet had the opportunity to compare his animal or his product with that of another farmer does not know whether his animal or commodity is up to standard.

The judges we use at these shows are usually experts and can give an exhibitor useful information on how he can improve the quality of his animals. In the business world billions of rands are spent annually on advertisements and the agricultural show is probably one of the most effective methods of advertising for the farmer and the businessman.

In a largely depopulated rural area an annual agricultural show also has great social value. It is, after all, the place where friends and strangers meet. In every show programme time is set aside for a show dance which makes the rural areas attractive to our young people in particular.

Our agricultural shows also have great entertainment value since our schools, our Police Force and our Defence Force, inter alia, also play an important role in respect of publicity. There are people who allege that agricultural shows no longer attract enough interest and that their programmes have become hackneyed and stereotyped. Sir, I want to refute this statement very strongly this afternoon, and point out to you that a show like the one which is going to be held at Graaff-Reinet next weekend rented 252 stables for the saddle horse championships, and this society had to refuse many entries owing to a lack of facilities. Apart from the exhibiting of a large variety of animals they also present an extremely interesting programme which varies from a marathon and a fashion show to a baby show.

Financial support by the provincial administration to agricultural societies in our province is an old convention if we take into consideration that this financial assistance was introduced in terms of the provisions of section 9 of Ordinance 23 of 1918.

To come into consideration for such assistance, the nature and scope of the permanent improvements which agricultural societies have in mind, must be approved by the administration in advance. They are required first to use any funds of their own to finance or partially finance improvements. In addition agricultural societies must also give proof of their financial ability to defray their part of the interest and redemption payments from normal revenue.

In addition an assistance allowance of 50 cents in the rand is paid to societies presenting shows to help to cover their operating costs for every year they have a show. This allowance has a maximum of R20 000, except in the case of the WP Agricultural Society, which has a maximum of R35 000. In the 1987-88 financial year R928 313 was paid out to societies. For the 1988-89 financial year the amount of R1 097 000 has been voted for this purpose. In view of the importance of agricultural shows in every community, and in the light of the facts I have mentioned here, as well as the fact that the province’s contribution has been an institution for the past 70 years, I want to appeal to the administration today for these financial contributions not to be scaled down, but for them to be adjusted bearing inflation and the astronomically high building costs nowadays in mind. The fine role of the rural farming communities should never be underestimated.

Mr Chairman, I still have a few minutes left. Some of my hon colleagues are going to talk about divisional councils, roads, etc, but allow me to mention a few matters. I farm in the Midland Divisional Council area. This consists of three areas which prior to their amalgamation were separate divisional council areas.

The Midland Divisional Council now wants to increase its tariffs by 10%. I have no objection to that, but what I should like to ask is why it is permissible for the tariffs in the different districts to differ so much. The people in the area do not pay the same rates for their fixed property, and this is causing a lot of trouble between our farmers. There is a second matter I want to bring to the attention of the MEC, Mr van Wyk, namely the road between Tarkastad and Hofmeyr. There is a beautiful tarred road up to the outskirts of Tarkastad, but then one has to travel the 30 kilometres to Hofmeyr on a corrugated road. Would it be possible for us not to have the tarred road ending in the middle of nowhere? Can we not have a tarred road to the remote little town of Hofmeyr? This will link up well with the road which already runs from north to south. I am mentioning this problem while I have the chance.

Mr Chairman, it is a singular honour and privilege for me to attend this joint meeting and try to make a brief contribution. As all my colleagues come from Natal, I am the only Asian present who comes from the Cape, the area with which today’s proceedings, in fact, are concerned.

Much has been said about the opening up of beaches and beach facilities to all population groups, and I should like to give my full support to this. Somebody told me the other day that this subject had been done to death.

It has also been said that civilisation ends at Du Toits Kloof. Discriminatory legislation is not implemented as strictly in large cities such as Cape Town, Port Elizabeth, etc, as it is in the country towns.

I should like to bring a few facts to the attention of the Administrator and his department so that they can be put right in the course of time.

Although hospitals fall under general affairs, the provincial council still plays an important role in the running of hospital services. Today I want to make an earnest appeal for all facilities at Cape hospitals to be opened up for all population groups. I am thinking, for example, of the new wing of the Groote Schuur Hospital, which has been opened to all population groups, and in which everything is running smoothly. There should be no problem. Facilities at some hospitals for non-Whites leave a lot to be desired. Even where members of our own community serve on these hospital boards, their contribution does not seem to be worth much. In addition, some hospitals have no outpatient department, and I want to make a further appeal that outpatient departments should be set up in such hospitals. Vryburg in the Northern Cape is an example of this. Training hospitals have no training facilities for Black nurses. They do not even have hostel facilities. Steps must be taken to see that these students receive the necessary assistance. Even where there are facilities for them, they are still not subsidised. It is Government policy to bring about parity in respect of salaries and service benefits for all staff in the public sector. It is not done in all cases. We therefore make an earnest appeal to the Administrator and his staff to implement this as soon as possible.

In certain circumstances libraries are open to all population groups, but there is still discrimination in some libraries. Problems are experienced in certain residential areas which are far from public libraries. Hon members know themselves that reading is one of the recreational facilities of our modern times. Children are making more and more use of libraries for reference purposes. I want to ask the Administration whether it is not possible to have satellite libraries in our residential areas, especially in the Cape.

Internal recreational facilities are divided between Whites and non-Whites only. Until such time as there is only one recreational facility for all population groups, I earnestly appeal to the CPA to expand the present facilities for existing recreational opportunities, so that they will be available to all non-Whites.

Mr Chairman, it is a great pleasure for me to follow up on the hon member for North-Western Cape. This afternoon the hon member referred to various aspects of provincial administration and provincial government, and made some representations to the Administrator. I am sure he will receive suitable replies in this connection.

As a man born and bred in the Cape, it is a singular privilege for me to be able to participate today in this extended provincial committee of the Cape. I should like to speak on Vote 3, Hospital and Health Services. Allow me at the outset to express my thanks and pay tribute to all doctors, nursing staff and other paramedic and administrative staff employed on a full-time basis in hospitals and the overall spectrum of health services in the Cape Province. The Province of the Cape of Good Hope has received world-wide recognition for the medical milestones it has reached, and there are very few people in the world who do not know of Groote Schuur Hospital and the first heart-transplant.

I think that today we owe a big vote of thanks to those who have to take administrative and other important decisions. I am referring here specifically to the Administrator of the Cape, the MEC in charge of hospital and health services, Mr A J van Wyk, and our chief director of hospital and health services, Dr R Saunders. We thank them for their dedication in this connection.

The Cape Province is a vast area indeed, and it is the task of second-tier government, together with the health services of the own affairs administrations, to ensure that all times good and adequate medical services are available for all population groups in the province. The following amounts have been appropriated for hospital and health services in the Cape Province for the financial year ending 31 March 1989:

This amount represents an increase of R189 977 000 on the previous financial year. Included in this figure is an amount of R117 395 000 in respect of functions taken over by the Department of National Health and Population Development for hospitals for mental health and infectious diseases. The actual increase is therefore only R72 575 000 and the particulars of this increase are set out fully in the explanatory memorandum to Vote No 3.

At first glance, this seems to be a large amount, but when one considers the demands made on the Government in this sphere, one can have nothing but praise for the formidable task which has to be undertaken with the available funds. In the Cape Province there are two large training hospitals with all their branches, apart from the training colleges and secondary services. In the Western Cape alone there are 42 provincial hospitals, apart from district-medical and related services. In the Eastern Cape there are 28 hospitals, apart from other medical services, and in the Northern Cape there are 13 hospitals, apart from the other district-medical services.

I want to state that the Cape Province provides good health care for its inhabitants. Allow me, though, to touch on an aspect which I feel could be profitably considered. I am referring to the situation prevailing at many of our country hospitals—often due to circumstances beyond their control—where doctors are not always available to give immediate attention to emergency cases brought to those country hospitals.

Let me also say at once that I am not asking for the appointment of full-time medical staff in because that could only be undertaken at enormous expense. But I would like to express the view that there is a need for more effective channelling of emergency cases from country hospitals to the training and larger provincial hospitals. Perhaps the answer or the solution might lie in the provision of a more streamlined and modern ambulance service using road and air transport to convey emergency cases to the right and best possible medical service.

If hon members will permit me, I shall put forward a few ideas on a sector of medicine which performs such wonderful work in our large training hospitals. I am referring to the Department of Haematology, Oncology and Radiotherapy.

When we examine the two training hospitals, we find that Groote Schuur Hospital has very good facilities in this regard. Groote Schuur also has two sub-departments at Frere Hospital and the Provincial Hospital in Port Elizabeth. It might be mentioned that Groot Schuur Hospital alone handles approximately 3 000 new patients in this field annually.

This service is also provided at Tygerberg Hospital, with clinics at George, Kimberley and Windhoek. Approximately 1 000 new patients a year attend these clinics and at the Tygerberg Hospital there are approximately 2 400 new patients annually.

As far as oncology is concerned, there is close co-operation between the radiotherapy and the oncology facilities which exist in addition to the radiotherapy facilities.

It might also be mentioned that the Cape is very greatly privileged to have had the Faure Hospital established. This is a national facility, in which the Cape will have a very large share, ie the neutron therapy machine which has been installed at Faure, with a hospital equipped with 30 beds under the control of the Medical Superintendent of the Hottentots Holland Hospital. Although it is not in operation as yet, the clinical treatment and protocol involved will be the responsibility of the two radiotherapy departments of the Groote Schuur and Tygerberg hospitals.

As far as haematology is concerned, there are some outstanding facilities and these are available at both the training hospitals.

Everybody has a fear of cancer and we all believe it will never affect us, but if one day it should be one’s fate, one often stands alone and dependent on the direction, guidance, encouragement and assistance of doctors in these departments. I do not specifically want to single out all these doctors and nurses from all the other wonderful doctors and nurses in our hospitals, but I want to pay tribute today to all those silent workers in medical science who perform such wonderful work and never ask for special acknowledgment.

These people not only wage war on cancer and try to save people’s lives, but they also have to give advice and be a pastoral psychologist and someone offering moral support. Magnificent work is being done in this connection by the departments at Groote Schuur and Tygerberg Hospitals, as well as the Red Cross Children’s Hospital, and I want to pay tribute today to the doctors who devote their lives to this branch of medicine.

I support this appropriation with pride.

Mr Chairman, I want to begin on the subject of hospital boards. As hon members will recall, hospital boards are appointed and 99% of hospital boards are an all-White affair. What I want to say to the Administrator is that I wonder why, when there are Blacks involved in the highest posts in the land, we cannot have this arrangement at the lower levels. Why can there not be a decentralisation of power? I think this is important. I think that the moment we begin to have people of colour on the hospital boards, part of our problem will be solved.

I now want to talk about the ambulance service. As far as we are concerned, the ambulance service is a very important one and this service is subsidised entirely by the province.

In the city areas one has various organisations such as Saame. I want to speak particularly about Port Elizabeth because I know a little bit about what is happening there.

There have been negotiations by Saame, which is a workers’ organisation, to have quota systems introduced. By quota systems, I mean so many Whites, so many Blacks, so many Coloureds, so many Indians and so many Chinese, for example.

However, what is amazing is that most of the senior positions are held by people who are White. Looking at the situation in terms of numbers, whereas Blacks are in the majority there is not a single Black person in a top executive position as far as the ambulance services are concerned. I do not wish to say that this is a disgrace, but the Administrator must now take over this function and administer it himself. We have sufficient personnel from the old development administration bodies—they keep changing their names—and these personnel can look after the interests of all South Africans, irrespective of race, colour or creed.

The ambulance services are supposed to operate on a non-racial basis. This is so because when one is sick one does not care who treats one, since one has two priorities: Either one wants to get well, or else one wants to die in peace. Be that as it may, I do not think I have ever seen a person who is dying or very ill who is worried about who treats him. Colour is not important when one is sick; one’s priority is to get well. By virtue of privilege, White South Africans have all been reared by Black hands. It is only when they become older that they realise that Black people are not good people.

Passing now to the rural areas, I wish to state that this is where one encounters many problems as far as ambulance services are concerned. I just wish to dwell for a moment on the situation in Karreedouw. Karreedouw is a very beautiful town in the Langkloof. It is an excellent town. Recently a beautiful hospital was opened there, but unfortunately this hospital is also run on a racial basis, with separate beds for separate people. It will be recalled that the hon member Mr Lockey dealt with this subject at length, and we were told that people have … [Interjection.]

*I think the hon member should listen to what I am saying, Sir.

†Kareedouw is a beautiful town in the Langkloof, and in the hospital there they practice separation. They have beds for White people and beds for Black people. That is what I am saying. What is more, the nurses are on a non-racial basis, but where are these nurses to reside? There is no fixed abode for them. There is no nurses’ home for them, as can be found in Port Elizabeth or in any other big centre. I want to appeal to the Administrator today to go out of his way to erect buildings where these people can be accommodated. After all, this is a training hospital, and fortunately the people in charge have no problem with Black people staying with them. I therefore want to make the appeal that we try and do something about this.

I want to go a little further, to a nice place like Joubertina. We have a small clinic at Joubertina, manned by both White and Black people. However, I think they have a specific problem with regard to the ambulance services, since this falls under the municipality of Joubertina. I should like the MEC in charge of ambulance services to inquire as to what is happening there. Are people being employed on a racial basis? Are people being employed full-time? What training facilities do we have for those people in Joubertina?

Then I want to ask whether we have satellite stations further down the Langkloof from which the ambulances operate. If one travels down the Langkloof from Joubertina one passes Krakeel, Louterwater, Haarlem and all those places. My plea is that if we do not have this, then we should establish satellite stations from which these ambulances can be manned so that we can get people to hospital or to the clinics more quickly. I do not think that is asking a lot.

I want to make a serious plea that we have an inquiry into what I term this quota employment system that we have in various centres. If that could be done, I should be pleased.

I now wish to come to an important matter that we have to deal with, namely squatters. On the one hand they are called squatters, while on the other hand we call these people homeless people. We in South Africa have a big problem in this regard, because on the one hand we have this ugly word “squatters” as against the beautiful concept of “homeless people”.

This is especially the case in the platteland because in terms of the Government’s policy an area must be proclaimed before people can stay in that area. It must be proclaimed an area for a particular group. Before that is done people cannot live there. I am saying this because I listened to the “wonderful” speech by the hon member for George who mentioned what a beautiful country South Africa was and how the Government went out of its way to accommodate people. However, I want to ask this fundamental question this afternoon: Is George an open area? Can people live where they want to? If we can honestly give a positive answer to that question then we can talk about a beautiful South Africa. Until such time as every place in this country is open to all this will not be a beautiful country. It is quite a different story to be on the side of the privileged than to be on the receiving end.

Where we have this problem of homeless people we have to look into the whole question of area proclamation. I speak from experience because I have been trying to get an area declared open for the last three years. What has happened is that the farmers are now farming with people. The people on those farms have no facilities whatsoever—no water or electricity supplies. The farmers cannot be blamed. It is the policy which is the cause of all these problems. I want to call for the proper planning of South Africa—i e in terms of people and not of races.

In South Africa we have a system in terms of which the place where people have to live is determined by the colour of their skin. We are pushed into ghetto’s or so-called proclaimed areas. Once we are in those areas we require business sites and industrial areas. In terms of the master plan the owner of that particular piece of land into which we are driven is the local authority. What happens then is that our people have to buy business sites on public tender. That means exploitation. According to the thinking of the provincial authorities public tender is the only fair way in which business sites can be allocated. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure for me to follow on the hon member for Haarlem. It is obvious that he knows his constituency and that he serves his people well.

*I want to wish him everything of the best. He made an oblique reference to the farmers who supposedly did nothing…

No, I did not say that. [Interjections.]

Very well, then I apologise to the hon member. I should like to take him on a visit to a farm some time. [Interjections.]

Up until a few months ago, we used to toil our way in a stop-start fashion over Du Toitskloof pass. There were always long queues of lorries and it was slow going. Now we glide, like a knife through butter, through the biggest and the longest tunnel in the Republic. It takes us into the Bree River valley and to the loveliest town in the valley, which is of course my town, Worcester. [Interjections.] The tunnel is wonderful. To me it looks like the finest town hall I have ever seen; just a bit finer even. Anybody can go through it. As long as one has R4 in one’s pocket, the tunnel is open for one; one just drives through.

When the tunnel was built, a giant pipeline was laid under the road surface to take water from the Bree River valley to the Paarl side of the mountain. We on the other side were peeved at having our water being taken away. Nevertheless we now believe that it is better to give than to receive. We only hope that we on the other side of the mountain will also be on the receiving end. We hope that Cape Town and Paarl realise and appreciate what we have done for them.

For a long time the town of Worcester was almost hidden from sight. At the moment things are blooming there, even in winter. There was talk of developing a large recreation resort on the Worcester side where the Du Toitskloof tunnel emerges. There was a whole controversy about this. I thank the hon the Administrator sincerely for having finally put paid to the plans for that recreation resort. This was a good decision, because people and animals would have frozen there. It is very, very cold indeed. Nobody could picnic there.

Worcester is a very progressive town. This is even more so now. Because of its healthy climate and plentiful food and good liquor, and the serenity of the surroundings, a very fast-growing community has settled there. Even if it is such a healthy place, there are still sick people there as well. This has meant that the community has had to face serious hospitalisation problem.

I shall briefly mention just a few of these problems. According to an in-depth investigation there is a shortage of 155 beds. This shortage has been determined on the basis of South African hospital norms. Together with a doubling of the present accommodation, all the auxiliary services will have to be extended. This includes for example operating theatres, the radiology section, physiotherapy services, the pharmacy, the supply store, kitchens, mortuaries, cloakrooms and so on. There is very limited space and a lack of facilities on the casualty side, which has always been hopelessly overloaded. I have already been to look round there. Sometimes it looks just like a butcher’s shop.

The position might improve in a few months, when the planned extensions are completed and taken into use. Tenders were awarded for these at the relevant stage. But this will still not solve the problem completely, and this aspect will have to be given further, urgent attention.

The steady stream of people to the out-patients department has increased to such an extent in recent years that the available space is overcrowded. There is not enough waiting, standing and seating accommodation, and patients stand in the passages, the entrances and even outside. This gives rise to delays in the treatment of patients and dissatisfaction amongst the public. These complaints are justified.

To keep these masses away from the hospitals, we shall have to provide one or more community health centres in the more densely populated areas, particularly the Black area of Zweletemba. This is an extremely urgent matter and will have to be rectified soon. People are becoming fidgety about this situation.

More and more pressure is being placed on the Eben Dönges Hospital at Worcester to act in a selection capacity for the provision of more advanced services to this region, thereby relieving the pressure on the over-full Peninsula training hospitals. This could be done if the necessary facilities were established at the Eben Dönges Hospital, for example an intensive care unit and so on. This would not form part of the complex of general wards.

The hospital at Worcester is increasingly coming to be regarded as a regional hospital. It serves the surrounding regions in the Bree River valley, but it is nevertheless not a fully-fledged regional hospital, even though this work is being done there.

I have almost come to the end of my questions.

One of the major shortcomings from which our hospitals have suffered for many years is a staff shortage. In all spheres this gives cause for concern and particularly in respect of nursing staff which has to cope with the unreasonable overload. We run a definite risk in this respect. We do not want unfair, preferential treatment in the face of greater needs in other communities, but I should first like to see that the needs of other communities are greater. I thank the authorities for the establishment of the hospital at Worcester, in spite of all its shortcomings. When these shortcomings have been overcome, the situation will improve. I also say thank you to the hon the Administrator and his MEC for their open-door policy.

I also want to pay tribute to the superintendent of our hospital who never has a long face, although he has to carry this heavy burden. He always has a smile and he is always positive, and he can teach us all a lesson or two—that even in this Chamber, if we were positive, we could iron out many problems. In that way there would be a much easier road ahead for all of us.

Mr Chairman, let me pick up where I left off. First I want to ask the hon member for Northern Cape something. He is so inclined to say that civilisation ends at Du Toitskloof. I do not know whether I can agree with him because he did not tell us from which side! [Interjections.] When I travel home from work then civilisation ends at Du Toitskloof. [Interjections.]

I have given the insurance that if we abolish certain discriminatory legislation we will not crowd each other out and we will not lose our identities. There is therefore nothing to fear. Frequently when I have to entertain guests I telephone first; I must make inquiries as to whether the restaurant is open or closed in order to spare my guests any embarrassment. If I take guests to a place which is closed and I must turn back, how can I explain to them that I am a part of the Government but that I am not allowed to go in? This is the dilemma we are facing today.

This morning I painted the picture of this beautiful country of ours. We do not want to see this country of ours go up in flames. We know that there are people outside whose objective it is to destroy this beautiful country of ours. It is these people who incite people abroad to speed up that process of destruction. We do not ask for help from the outside world. We do not ask the rest of the world to come and help us. We in South Africa are quite capable of making the necessary changes ourselves. We are courageous enough to abolish laws which no longer apply.

We have already abolished outdated and/or discriminatory legislation in the past. We abolished discriminatory legislation because it was outdated. We did not do so because there was pressure on us. We did so because we could manage without those discriminatory laws. We did so because we wanted to make South Africa a bearable country to live in.

If we do not get rid of those laws we are playing into the hands of our critics and we are giving these people more reason to throw stones at us. This also gives our extra-parliamentary groups the chance to point out that shortcomings are triumphing.

For that reason it is essential for us to speed up this reform process, because if we do that we are counteracting the enemies of this country. We must be serious. We must do more and talk less. We must bring this country into line with the rest of the world, but we must do this from conviction. We must not engage in window-dressing. It must be a serious attempt to keep the country, South Africa, on the world map.

There are so many people in the rest of the world and in Africa who have the answers. There are also many of them who have the solutions, but when I look at those countries I ask myself whether it is worthwhile taking the advice of those people. Is it worthwhile taking the advice of those countries, considering what they look like? Just look at them! They are nevertheless the people who have the solutions to our problems.

The time has come for us to put our shoulders to the wheel and really start our reform programme. We must really start to make this country bearable for each and every person. This country must be given its rightful place again, a country in which each and every person can live together in peace, love and harmony, and then, and only then, can we carry on.

I believe that when that day dawns, we will also be able to sing at the top of our voices: “Oh South Africa, dear land!”

Mr Chairman, I take great pleasure in speaking after the hon member who has just resumed his seat. His speech contained wonderful idealism, and I think we would all like to share it with him.

I want to refer to a topic which some people consider contentious, but I want to refer to it because there are a number of race horse trainers, stud farms and race horse breeders in my constituency. Today I want to refer to a new form of betting which made its appearance on our Cape race courses in the second half of last year, namely the so-called Pick Six. In order to win the Pick Six one must pick the winning horse in six consecutive races, and that is why the Pick Six is exactly what its name implies it is.

However, the first thing which strikes one about the Pick Six, and which catches one’s attention is the tremendous sums of money which are wagered and won. It is not unusual to read and hear about punters winning R50 000, R100 000, R200 000 and even more. Earlier this year a record amount of over R1 million was shared by a few punters at the Kenilworth Racecourse. Frequently the Pick Six is not won, and then the amount which is not won is carried over to the next race meeting. In this way a few weeks ago the record amount of over R5 million was shared by a few punters on the Rand.

Man has one weakness; he likes to earn easy money. [Interjections.] The hon member for Mamre is quite right; this applies to all of us. People like to get rich quickly. They would like to reap without sowing first. We saw this in the shares débacle of 1969, and the growth fund débacle during the same period. We had the shares rush last year, and we know how that ended. We saw how people burnt their fingers burnt in the kubus affair.

It is human to want to make easy money, but this is something I do not like, and I think we in this Chamber have a duty in this regard, because these enormous sums of money are causing a racing fever which did not exist before. It is tempting people to participate in horse racing, whereas they may otherwise never have done so. If a person can afford to lose his money there it is his business but there are literally thousands of people from the poorer sectors of our population who are wasting the money for food for their wives and children, their bread and butter, on the race courses, and it is this which is worrying me.

In racing circles there is serious concern about the fact that so many outsiders have won since the introduction of the Pick Six horse races. Many questions are also being asked in newspaper reports. [Interjections.] Questions are being asked in the correspondence columns of our newspapers. Racegoers who have attended horse races for more than 20 years are very worried about what is happening.

Time and again the question is asked, why are so many outsiders winning? The reason is sought among the race-horse trainers, the bookmakers and the jockeys, and today I must tell hon members—I am sorry to have to say this—that attention is centred on the jockeys. I do not want to elaborate on this further, except to say that something is severely wrong in the South African racing industry.

I would like to know who the people are who are winning the Pick Six, because the winners are incognito. I would also like to know how large the sums of money are which these winners wager on the Pick Six. Then I ask whether the time has not come for racing clubs to be compelled, in terms of the Horse Racing Ordinance, to make this information public.

All I want to ask today is that the province investigate this matter with a view to taking appropriate steps to ensure that the interests of our public are protected. Quite possibly the abolition of the Pick Six could be considered.

Mr Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to address this House. This is an historical event. There are one or two things that I would like to say before I speak on the Budget.

Firstly, I want to express my appreciation to the Administrator and the MECs with whom I had dealings. The management committee and myself always found them most helpful and we appreciate that.

I feel it is important that the allocation of funds to local authorities should be handled on a fixed basis. For example, the reason for this is that the provincial authority allocates funds to the Cape Town City Council. This allocation constitutes a globular amount. The council therefore allocates such funds on a priority basis determined by itself. Consequently one finds that the bigger part of these funds are spent in the more affluent areas. If we want to be honest and look one another in the eye—as was said this morning— the Black perception is that these funds are being spent in the White areas. The non-White areas in our community are severely neglected. When provincial roads are built by the city councils, they are done in half measure—by that I mean that only single carriageway roads are constructed.

The hon member who spoke before me referred to horse races, and I will continue in that vein. Take for instance Racecourse Road and Turfhall Road, which crosses the railway line, in Lansdowne. This is one street with two different names. In the White area it is called Racecourse Road and it becomes Turfhall Road as soon as it runs through the Coloured area. Racecourse Road is duplicated and landscaped where the White race lives…

By the Prog City Council of Cape Town.

Correct. Turfhall Road has one carriageway only and no landscaping. Sand has filtered into the gutter drains. Turfhall Road has one sidewalk; Racecourse Road has two sidewalks constructed on both sides. Turfhall Road serves an industrial area and workers have to walk through sand from the station because there is a lack of pavements. The only manner in which it can be ensured that non-White areas are equally treated by the parent local authority, is that the provincial authority insists that when the city councils apply for funds, the list of priorities are submitted to this authority for approval. This, I believe, is most important. Furthermore, this list of priorities must be sanctioned by the management committees.

Sir, general funds are being given to a local authority and these funds are also being utilised in our areas. However, we have no say in the matter and if we cannot adopt such a policy, management committee areas will forever be underdeveloped by way of the roads and the council will insist that regional services councils apply the funds. This is what we are doing right now.

Much has been said in regard to beaches. However, I do not intend to talk about the opening or closing of beaches. Bathing…

You cannot swim.

I shall reply to the hon member later.

†Bathing is dangerous at those beach resorts that are set aside for non-Whites. Consequently people stream to safe beaches. This has resulted in beaches becoming overcrowded—with disastrous results. It is therefore imperative that additional funds should be made available for the provision of a tidal pool and the like at non-White resorts.

For example, Kogel Bay in Gordons Bay is an extremely popular resort, but swimming at this facility is extremely dangerous and drownings are commonplace. I must once more insist that when funds are released to councils for expenditure on Kogel Bay, this provincial authority should insist that as a priority it be used for a tidal pool.

Cape Town City Council insists on the provision of other facilities, for example they see a parking area as a priority at Kogel Bay. I consider the emphasis to be on human life and not on improving property as a priority.

In such an enlightened society as the one in which we live one unfortunately hears—we have heard again today—about ambulances refusing to pick up patients if they are of the wrong colour. It is unfortunate that we still hear of such instances. I feel that local authorities that still practise this sort of petty apartheid should be severely reprimanded. I shall go as far as to say that funds should be taken away from them as a punishment, because I believe that the apartheid era is passing. In my constituency we experience that ambulances take a very long time to reach the scene when called to an accident. This can result in the injured person losing his life, and this has happened. My appeal is that shortcomings in our area be critically examined and that additional funding be provided where it is found that there is a lack of ambulances or staff.

A disturbing thought is that one still finds apartheid in hospitals. This evil must be eradicated. We are beginning to talk about the post-apartheid era and we cannot sell the post-apartheid era if we still have this kind of discrimination. I hope and trust that the new Groote Schuur Hospital will be divested of all instances of separateness.

There are almost half a million people residing in the Athlone and District Management Committee area. To serve this population we have branch libraries. This area is served by one regional library which was opened by the hon Administrator. The management committee has repeatedly asked the council to increase the floor space of the library, because these facilities are being used extensively. Now because of the extremely overcrowded conditions under which our people live, the library is being used for research and study purposes. The floor area of the regional library in Athlone is far too small for this purpose and has resulted in overcrowding. One can go there on any afternoon of the week and one will find the library totally overcrowded. My appeal is that a special allocation of funds be made available to the council for a bigger regional library in Athlone. I have received reports from management committees… [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, in following on after the hon member for Bonteheuwel I shall not be speaking on the same subject, but I should merely like to comment that many of the problems that he raised in his speech illustrates the very great need that exists for local authorities to represent all people and not to be restricted to individual races.

Earlier the hon member for George stated that this Government does not pursue a policy of forced removals and I beg to differ with his statement. In 1982 Dr Piet Koornhof declared that there would be no more forced removals in South Africa and in May 1987 the hon the State President sent a message to fellow South Africans confirming that forced resettlements had in fact been stopped.

In January this year the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning added a proviso to this. He said that the Government has never said that there would be no more forced removals. What the Government said, according to the hon the Minister, was that there would be no forced removals for political purposes. The Government now appears to be blurring the distinction between removals for developmental purposes and removals for political purposes. I should like to illustrate this by the example of Lawaaikamp in George, where Blacks have lived for some 35 years. The Government has now developed Sandkraal for Black housing and wishes all Blacks from Lawaaikamp to move there. I have no argument with what the hon member for George had to say regarding the facilities that have been provided there but, according to the town clerk of George, the Coloured area adjacent to Lawaaikamp is to be extended and will encompass that area. In my opinion the Blacks have valid reasons for not wishing to move. That is why they are resisting the move. There is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that should these people be moved, it would be against their will. This is further confirmation that the Government still wishes to pursue social engineering on purely ideological grounds.

Sir, moving closer to home, I should like to refer to what the Supreme Court found regarding the squatters who were moved from Noordhoek to Khayelitsha in December last year—and I use the word “squatters” but prefer the words “homeless people”, as used by the hon member for Haarlem. It was found that the squatters were dispossessed by duress; that statements…

Mr Chairman, on a point of order: I think there is an appeal pending in that regard. I think the matter is sub judice and that the hon member should therefore refrain from discussing it any further at this stage.

Fine, Mr Chairman. Today, in fact, I do not wish to deal with the subject of forced removals as such. I wish to deal with the underlying reasons for this policy—a policy according to which people are treated as pawns in a game, to be moved at will. It is a policy which has destroyed family life and opportunity and which divides people on grounds of race. It creates racial friction and feeds on racial inequality of opportunity.

It is common cause that a developing nation such as ours has to contend with escalating urbanisation. People have to find work in order to have shelter and to feed and clothe their families. This process has escalated in recent years, mainly because of this Government’s refusal, in the past, to accept the reality of urbanisation. The Group Areas Act, influx control and the Coloured labour preference policy have all contributed to the problems which we are now facing. By artificially stemming the influx tide we are now faced with movements of people which have reached tidal wave proportions.

However, I believe it is necessary to give credit where it is due. I believe that there have been significant improvements since the responsibility for Blacks housing was moved from the now defunct Administration Boards to the province. I believe that much good work has been done and that the provincial authorities are to be congratulated and thanked for this. I further believe that I speak for many when I say that we are now far more confident about the province’s ability to deal with the problems in this area.

Two recent developments are particularly noteworthy. The first is the hon the Administrator’s recently announced agreement between the Cape Administration and the South African Housing Trust whereby an additional 4 500 housing sites will be provided at Khayelitsha. Secondly, I believe that the planned re-housing on Browns Farm of persons displaced from Cross-roads and KTC in 1986 is a significant move forward. These people have faced enormous hardships and deprivation, and I echo the call of the hon member for Cape Town Gardens for officials to be sensitive and fair in allocating these sites. To be seen to be favouring any specific group will only heighten the tension and lead to further instability.

However, Sir, the executive of the province has to operate within the overall framework of Government policy. All too often these policies have precluded the provision of housing in terms of accepted town planning principles. Access to employment opportunities is the most important consideration in the location of low-cost housing. Access to education, health, recreation and religious facilities is important, but survival is contingent upon employment, and access to employment possibilities must be the overriding criterion in the location of a low income housing area.

This need has manifested itself in the Peninsula in many ways, specifically in the form of a number of so-called squatter communities. Today I wish to make a plea to the Government to address this problem. Indiscriminate squatting, often on private land, is obviously unacceptable, but there is an urgent need for Government to proclaim smaller pockets of land for Black housing outside the existing proclaimed areas.

There is, for example, a need to house approximately 2 000 Blacks in the southern Peninsula. These people would include those presently living in Noordhoek, Hout Bay and Fish Hoek. Khayelitsha does not represent a practical solution to their problem. Many of those working in Noordhoek are presently earning R10 a day, and the cost of their transport to and from Khayelitsha would amount to some R7,40. In any event, there is no or very little prospect of them finding work closer to Khayelitsha.

The problem of Black housing in the southern Peninsula will not be resolved by local authorities acting in the sole interest of their White ratepayers. I believe that the Blacks, many of whom have been displaced from farms and have lived in these areas for two to three generations, have a right to be there as well. I therefore make a plea to the hon the Minister concerned to help these people. Similarly, I believe there is a need for pockets of Black housing in the northern areas, for example, provision needs to be made for approximately 90 Black and “mixed” families living in Bloekombos in the Kraaifontein district.

What I am pleading for, is a fundamental shift in Government policy. It is no longer possible to house people neatly on racial criteria alone, nor is it possible to protect White privilege in the face of Black economic hardship and deprivation.

What is needed is for Government to recognise the economic and social realities of the 1980s, and to adopt flexible policies of land allocation which will meet the living requirements of all our people fairly.

Mr Chairman, I am back on course. I almost lost my way.

I listened to what other speakers in the debate said and my hon colleague who spoke earlier on, made an appeal for open beaches, better beach facilities and tidal pools. In my part of the world we barely have enough water to drink, and we cannot therefore ask for a tidal pool. We do not know what a tidal pool is. We have to consult a dictionary to find out what a tidal pool is. We only know about roads.

Today I respectfully want to ask the hon the Administrator something, and at the same time I respectfully want to invite him, and his officials, to come and pay me a visit. However, he must come by car so that I can take him for a drive on those roads. The last time an Administrator travelled on those roads the car overturned, and since then we have never had another Administrator on those roads.

Why do I feel so strongly about roads? Let me put it this way, if you will permit me to do so: A man died and his coffin had to be transported to the cemetery by road on a wagon. The road was so bad that on the way the coffin fell off the wagon. When the coffin sprang open, the man stood up because he had apparently only suffered a fainting fit. Next time around his wife had that road repaired at her expense so that the coffin could not fall off the wagon again.

Let us come back to the discussion. I am again talking about minor roads, and I hope the hon the Administrator will not hold it against me today, because these are the roads I travel on day and night.

In the same way that my hon colleagues asked for open beaches and better beach facilities I should like to ask today for us to see whether there is not a way to have these minor roads classified, to a certain extent, under the subsidised loans or allowances.

I work very well with the divisional councils in those areas, but the poor people’s hands are tied. There are no funds and they cannot do anything about it. After one has travelled on those roads one has to stay at home for seven months to get over the shock.

I know my time is limited but there is something else I want to talk about, otherwise I am going to be on the wrong track again! I have already spoken to the Secretary of the Divisional Council: Namaqualand about subsidised loans for Coloured workers. He promised me that as soon as this could be implemented on the same basis on which loans are allocated to White workers of the divisional council he would do something about this. There are Coloured people who have been working for the divisional council for years now, but unfortunately they cannot afford a home of their own, because they do not get subsidised loans. Perhaps the Administrator can help me in this regard.

Forgive me for always talking about my constituency, but that is where I must travel about. There is a road from Springbok to Kleinsee, where the diamonds come from. The road is a proclaimed divisional council road but owing to a lack of funds this road cannot be maintained. The road is used frequently, but the diamonds simply fall out of one’s trouser pockets when one travels on that road. I spoke to the hon the Minister of Transport Affairs about this, and he said he could do nothing about it. He said I should address my lamentations to the Administrator. I would like to see that road in a better condition.

The road to Kommagas—as I said in my previous speech—is a road which one can only travel on in the daytime. The road runs through the mountains, and if one travels on that road at a jog trot at night, one is sometimes stopped by ghosts. I spoke to Mr Claase, the Secretary of the Divisional Council: Namaqualand, and he told me there were no funds available. A great deal of money is needed to improve the road. They will have to dynamite the mountain. At the moment there are no funds available.

I want to ask the Administrator to see whether he cannot help us. Perhaps one should rather apply subsidising at regional level. There may be other regions where subsidies are needed more, but perhaps our region needs them more—I do not know. Perhaps there are funds one can take some money from. I see in the budget there are funds for traffic counting and radio communication. The people in my part of the world do not even know what these things are, but perhaps we can get some young boys to count how many vehicles use that road. That may help.

Can they count?

Yes, they can count. Six little children together can count rather well!

But will they count for nothing?

They will do it for nothing. There are many roads of inferior quality which have not been proclaimed. However, these are the roads which are used most in our rural areas, because agricultural products have to be transported on these roads.

Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure for me to participate in this debate on provincial affairs this afternoon. I should like to associate myself with the previous speaker and sincerely thank the Administrator, members of the Executive Committee and their officials for the pleasant and fine way in which this team always helps me when I go to them with the problems of my constituency.

I also want to associate myself with my colleague, the hon member for Kimberley North, who expressed his thanks to the provincial administration for the fine way in which they met the needs of our people who were devastated by the recent floods. He said something which he did not want placed on record, but I cannot leave it at that. I shall reply to him later but I should like to thank hon members. We appreciate this and our people, the voters of all population groups, appreciate the help which the administration gave in this regard.

It is a pleasure for me to follow my colleague, the hon member for Springbok, who spoke so calmly about the gravel roads in his part of the world. There are not many gravel roads where I come from, but I also know about dust. It is also a pleasure for me to welcome him to the club which has been debating roads for many years now. He is a new entrant to the debate and we welcome his contribution. I am convinced that, in the spirit of the debate here today, which actually improved significantly after the first hour or two, we can go on to handle our problems. This also applies to the problems he has.

It just so happens that I should also like to say a few words about minor roads, but I have another problem in this regard which I want to bring to the attention of the relevant authority. In this regard I am also referring to Vote 4 of the memorandum on page 6. Of course this also involves funds.

I think I should explain briefly to hon members what a minor road is so that they will know what we are talking about when we refer to a minor road. This is a proclaimed public road which usually gives access to one or more registered properties. Obviously one finds minor roads in rural areas. They are roads which, quite possibly owing to the amount of traffic they carry, simply cannot qualify for divisional road status.

The ordinance provides that a divisional council can maintain a minor road if it has the funds. Certain exceptions are then made in which funds can be allocated for minor roads. If I remember correctly a school bus route is one of the things which can allow such a road to qualify for additional financial aid.

However, what is worrying me is the matter of the responsibility for minor roads. We now have a new dispensation with regional services councils. While I was working with this I became aware of the extent of minor roads in the province. It must be remembered that according to the ordinance the minor road is a public road. It is a public road which of course crosses the land of a landowner and in consequence of the description given in the ordinance with regard to the allocation of subsidies minor roads, owing to the road status, cannot be maintained properly. This results in a certain responsibility.

If we look at regional services councils, we find that the tax aspect falls away. At present the divisional councils must maintain minor roads from their tax revenue. This source of revenue will therefore fall away when regional services councils come into operation. Consideration must be given to what is going to be done as regards minor roads. Whose responsibility are they going to be and what recommendations are going to be made in this regard? This is not a matter which can be discussed lightly; minor roads cover a total distance of approximately 84 000 km in the province.

Many of these roads have fallen into disuse. I am now talking about the rural areas, because the Cape is a large province. The maintenance of the roads is becoming a problem. I feel we should look specifically at the minor roads which are still being used and we shall have to consider deproclaiming the other minor roads which have fallen into disuse. It is true that a road which is not maintained by means of adequate drainage, is very prone to erosion. We must give attention to this aspect because when we talk about roads today we are inclined to think of our trunk roads, the tarred roads and dual-carriage highways, and forget all about this responsibility of ours. In support of this I can merely mention that there are 3 500 km of minor roads in the divisional council area of Prieska alone. The expenditure of the divisional council of Prieska from own funds on minor roads increased from 40% in 1985-86 to 61% in 1987-88, and then dropped to 52% in 1988-89. This is a unique problem to which I shall again refer briefly later on. This merely shows that certain divisional councils must use a large part of their revenue for the maintenance of minor roads. I am afraid they do not have the funds and must of necessity save on other votes or on other minor roads.

Arising from this I want to mention briefly that we have a big problem in my constituency and specifically in the Prieska area. As regards irrigation roads I want to mention that in recent years—since approximately 1985—tremendous development has taken place in the field of irrigation. The roads the people in the irrigation areas must rely on for the transportation of their products are mainly minor roads. Since Eskom power has been provided, since water rights have been made available to farmers and since there has been a constant supply of water in the P K le Roux Dam, the development in the field of irrigation has mushroomed. New irrigation units virtually became a reality overnight. Centre pivot systems have changed the entire irrigation technique to such an extent that land which it was not possible to irrigate in the past has now become irrigable.

Those people are soon going to be bankrupt.

In the divisional council area of Prieska there are 17 223 ha under irrigation with a potential new area of 14 230 ha. Water rights have already been issued for 10 700 ha. Crops such as maize, watermelons, cotton, lucerne and anything one can think of, are being cultivated under irrigation. Products with a total mass of approximately 146 000 tons per annum must be transported over 150 km of roads, most of which are minor roads. When it is borne in mind that the products are transported in lorries weighing up to 30 tons, one can imagine the state those roads are in. At present there are approximately 200 farmers and 1 800 agricultural workers—the figure for labourers is expected to double. The taxable value of the irrigation land in Prieska is R3 million and in Hopetown R2,5 million. However, this value is still based on grazing value and not on the actual irrigation value of the land. This gives the divisional council a meagre income of R31 000 in tax revenue from irrigation land along the Orange River. There is therefore a serious need for additional funds. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, when I concluded my previous speech I was appealing to the Cape Provincial Administration to make a greater effort to promote tourism in the Cape. I want to start this speech by taking this appeal further and saying that I do not believe that tourism should stop on this side of the mountain or even at Bloubergstrand. I believe tourism must also be promoted in that area which is dear to my heart, namely the West Coast.

At the outset I want to thank the Administrator and his MECs for their visits to the West Coast. It was a pleasure to have them there on several occasions, particularly during the harvest festival. We also appreciated their other visits, for example when they came to take a look at our beach problems. I also want to thank the Provincial Administration for what is being done and what has been done in connection with the erection of a clinic in Mamre. I believe that what is taking place in Mamre at the moment will be developed so that the cultural value of that little town which has been overlooked for 150 years will be fully realised.

I also want to make an appeal for consideration to be given to the village of Pella, approximately 5 km in the direction of Atlantis. There is a small church society there, and I think the Provincial Administration should look into cases where churches do not accept their responsibility or where they are not in a position to continue with developments. In such cases the Provincial Administration should step in to try to improve the lot of the people.

It is causing me concern that empty promises are always being made when it comes to the West Coast. Over the years the West Coast has been identified as a growth point. I want to know what has become of this growth, because the point is still there. Sir, the time has come for us to consider the development potential and the human potential of the West Coast. I do not believe we must centralise everything around the Cape municipal area or even the greater Cape area. We must not pump all our money into this area. We have tremendous development pressure on the West Coast. The copper industry in Namaqualand has collapsed and people are streaming to areas on the West Coast in their thousands. I am therefore appealing for us to throw open the West Coast to development. Let us also throw open the Sandveld to all the people. Let us see how close we can bring our people to nature and how available nature can be to the people. I want to say a word of thanks for the development of the beach at Langebaan, and I also want to say a word of thanks for the conservation efforts under way there. Sir, that area has far more potential than many parts of South Africa.

Would the hon member suggest that as a homeland?

I can tell that hon member that we know all about the homeland story. We will end up with the homeland and the hon member will have the tap. Then, when things go wrong in the homeland, they will turn off the tap. I say no; I want to tell the hon member for De Aar that we must take the water and the irrigation through everyone’s areas. There must not be taps which can be turned off. In any case, the people in the homeland do not get the opportunity to put their case here.

I want to ask the Provincial Administration to look at the West Coast. I want to address specific problems in respect of Paternoster. The politics surrounding Paternoster must now be cleared up. That area has been declared a Coloured area and the arm-twisting in connection with Paternoster is no longer necessary. The Administration: House of Representatives wants to go ahead with the development of that area. We want to provide housing there. I therefore believe that we must stop debating Paternoster now. I also believe that Paternoster is creating the opportunity to throw the West Coast open to the entire country.

I also want to ask that consideration be given to the possibility of completing the road between Paternoster and Vredenburg sooner. This is an important road, and at the moment it is keeping people away from this beautiful little town. I also want to ask that consideration be given to the construction of a road between Vredenburg and Saldanha. I feel the West Coast has fared rather well recently as regards the betterment of roads, but the condition of the road between Vredenburg and Saldanha is alarming. Furthermore, I myself can attest to the dangerous state of the road between Darling and Hopefield. I am asking the Administration to look into this because this will relieve the position of the people living there.

The Richtersveld is an area which must be thrown open to development, so that the people can enjoy the culture and the nature there. I believe that those communities must be helped by the construction of a good road.

It was alarming to learn that the Provincial Administration, or whoever is responsible for this, was not doing their duty in the Verlorevlei area. That area has beautiful scenery and a great deal of potential, and it must be conserved. I feel this problem must be urgently addressed. Mistakes that were made in the past must be put right. We cannot allow decisions to be taken about places without consulting the people. The people of the West Coast and the entire Sandveld must be given the opportunity to become a part of the general economic and social development. They must be exposed to the general development which is taking place.

I believe the West Coast and the Sandveld did not get their rightful share in the past because we did not have political leaders who were strong enough. I submit that we are going to turn the tables and that in future we are going to take the opportunity to ensure that those areas get the necessary development. We are going to come here time and again to discuss the glaring shortcomings of that area. We are going to convince the administration that those areas were neglected in the past and that no attention was paid to the people and their needs.

However, I also want to say that it is good to see that positive things are happening in that area. It was a giant step for the province and for the people concerned when it was decided to throw open the development at the Langebaan lagoon. I think the island development there is a striking example of what we should do in the new South Africa. We should throw open facilities to the public and afford people the opportunity to go and live there. I want to praise the development at Lientjiesklip at Langebaan. This reflects the spirit of the West Coast, and I hope the spirit of the West Coast will also become the spirit of the new South Africa.

Mr Chairman, I want to thank the powers that be for this opportunity to take part in this very historic joint sitting of the extended public committee. I am sure we would all have been much happier if the other component of the South African society took part with us in this very historic debate.

Before I continue with my speech I want to make an observation concerning the absence of a member of the Indian community on the Executive Committee of the Cape Province. I think the Department of Confusion and Complications must have made a mistake somewhere along the line and that is why we do not find any members of the Indian community on the Executive Committee of the Cape. [Interjections.] What I have said must not be misconstrued. Since the removal of the barriers restricting the movement of Indians in South Africa, Indians have moved into the Cape and the Transvaal and soon they will be moving into the Orange Free State.

South Africa belongs to all South Africans and therefore provision must be made for all the people to be represented on all levels. A lot has been said about national, provincial and also parochial politics. I will not indulge too much in that. Suffice it to say that the South African economy cannot carry the ideologies of the present system. I say this from the economic point of view, because from the political point of view most of us, if not all, know that this is not something that is going to continue for ever. This must come to an end. Let us in this regard take the HSRC, which pointed out in no uncertain terms that the majority of South Africans, irrespective of colour or creed, are all supporting the idea of one government for all the people by all the people—provided, of course, that one group does not dominate the other. That being the direction in which South Africans are moving, I do not see why we should be wasting our time pursuing the system of separate development and own affairs. Therefore I think the time has now come that somewhere along the line somebody has to stand up and say: “So far, and no more”, which must come from at least the administrators to whom a lot of power is going to be devolved. However, if that power is going to be the same kind of own affairs and separate development power it is not going to be a lasting solution to the problems of this country.

Talking about the economic ability to carry this ideology, we must remember that in 1984 the total Budget of the South African Parliament was in the region of R24 billion and in 1988 we are looking at R50 billion, and there could be some overspending. Looking at that we must ask ourselves whether this country can carry this burden. Is it possible to continue along this line of action? A lot of our people are talking about the ills of the rand. Hon members should not be mistaken. If the rand was not where it is today we would have gone to the wall, because our exports are benefitting very much from the lower rand and therefore it has in a way been a blessing to this country’s fortunes. Imagine if the rand were equivalent to the dollar, and gold were trading at $425 an ounce, what would we be getting for it? We would not be looking at the R990 and R1 000 figures of return. That is simple arithmetic— double what we would have been getting if it were an equivalent ratio. Therefore it is not something that has hit us below the belt, but rather something that has given us enough impetus to continue with our large budgeting. If things become equal, we will be finding ourselves without the money to run the shows that we are contemplating.

Down to the provincial level, deregulation has become the cry at parliamentary level, but coming from certain provinces throughout, members of Parliament would realise that it is trickling down very slowly indeed, and the administration, with the executive committee, must now look at local authorities who are digging in their heels and not allowing these inhibitions to be removed. It is important that deregulation must not only be spoken about but must also be practiced, and to be put into practice we need the Administrator’s executive committee to delegate certain persons to attend to this at local government level. That is where it has all started and that is where it all must stop. In fact, that is where the buck stops. If people cannot remove these regulations and deregulate to allow people of colour and everybody to be involved in the economy then the whole talk about small businesses and the informal sector will just become nothing but words and no deeds.

I am a Natalian and I do not know much about the Cape, but down in the Cape there is a hue and cry about the price of land down at Pelican Park. Across the “vlei” one can buy a house and land for about R50 000, but at Pelican Park one has to pay R45 000 for a piece of land. Therefore something must be wrong somewhere along the line, because Pelican Park was developed from land that was owned by the State and it was transferred to another State department.

Therefore, who is scoring points and who is making money from this, at the expense of people who are not represented on the executive committee of this province? We do not know where the answers will come from. This is a matter which must seriously be looked into. That land is not being sold, because the price is R45 000 for a piece of land. Where in the Cape does one find such expensive land? I do not think even for land on the main beach fronts does one pay such prices. This, I believe, is something which the administration should look at. They should come up with some answers to solve these problems.

Mr Chairman, I am privileged to follow the hon member for Southern Natal. I am not going to react to his speech. I think he confined himself mainly to the problems they have. One can clearly see that he comes from Natal. I suppose they are rather proud after their defeat of Eastern Province last Saturday, and of course they are faring better than Western Province.

It is a great privilege for me to participate in this debate today, particularly as I am again privileged to be able to speak about Vote 4: Roads. I want to confine myself mainly to minor roads, about which the hon members for Springbok and De Aar also expressed concern. However, I think I want to approach the matter from a slightly different angle to those two hon members.

Towards the end of June of last year there were 84 000 km of minor public roads in the Cape Province. Recently the Western Cape and Algoa Regional Services Councils were established. Prior to this all minor roads were built and maintained solely from divisional council taxes. With the coming into existence of the said two regional services councils this source of revenue fell away and the financial responsibility in respect of their minor roads was transferred to the province. For that reason R2 million was voted by the Treasury in the province’s revised estimates for 1987-88 for this purpose and the amount was transferred to the said two councils for this purpose.

Preliminary estimates indicate that at least R16 million per annum will be needed for this purpose when all the divisional councils are converted into regional services councils. Because all the remaining divisional councils cannot be converted into regional services councils this year, and there is not yet any certainty as to which of them are going to be converted, it is not possible at this stage to estimate the funds needed and only a nominal provision is made for this in the printed estimates. However, urgent attention will have to be given to this matter when the first revised estimate is drafted in July or August 1988, so that the necessary funds can be acquired from the Treasury.

I must also mention that in general the minor roads of provinces are not in a good condition and that the engineers of the roads division have ascertained that approximately twice this amount of funds will be needed to maintain these roads as the divisional councils are at present doing or to provide them with a better surface.

Big problems exist specifically in those areas where deciduous fruit is produced, because it is absolutely essential for roads to be in a very good condition. These deciduous fruit areas are also served mainly by minor roads. These roads must be in a good condition specifically during the harvesting season.

The reason for this is that when fruit has scratches or bruises it is not of export quality and this is a tremendous loss for those farmers and for the country as a whole, particularly when we take into account what a major earner of foreign exchange deciduous fruit has been in recent years.

Quite a number of minor roads serve farms which produce large quantities of fruit, and the councils in the Witsenberg and Caledon areas in particular are finding it very difficult to maintain these roads out of their own funds.

However, it is not only in these areas that we have problems. The hon member for De Aar also referred to this. Specifically in the irrigation areas farmers are experiencing major problems with the maintenance of minor roads. This also applies to divisional councils, because in these irrigation areas heavy loads of agricultural products are transported on these roads which have not been compacted properly. For that reason they cannot carry these heavy loads and the roads are very soon in a very bad condition.

I am also very concerned about the shortage of funds to repair minor roads in the areas where flooding took place in recent months. In most of the divisional council areas it is the policy of the divisional councils for a council to contribute 50% of the costs of maintaining a minor road and for the rest to be contributed by the users of such roads.

I want to use a divisional council area which I know very well and the circumstances of which I am also very well acquainted with, as an example for this committee. During the flooding in Natal towards the end of September and the beginning of October of last year, that part of the flood which also this divisional councils in the Cape, caused tremendous damage totalling approximately R1 million to minor roads in the Drakensberg divisional council. This divisional council really does not have the money to repair these roads fully.

Before I go any further I want to take this opportunity to thank the hon Administrator, the MEC entrusted with roads and the Department of Roads that such quick action was taken after this flood damage, and that the hon MEC personally visited those roads and that divisional council area, accompanied by one of the engineers from the office of the provincial roads engineer, to acquaint themselves with the damage and the destruction which took place on those roads. As a result of this visit by the hon MEC and the Department of Roads the province voted a fine sum of money to help this divisional council to repair these roads to a certain extent.

In spite of this fine contribution from the province there is, however, not enough money to repair these roads fully and the divisional council will not be able to spend anything on these roads during the coming financial year because they will not have the necessary funds. For that reason I want to appeal to the authorities to look into this problem and see whether a plan cannot be made.

I also want to take this opportunity to address a request to the Department of Roads. I see under Vote 4 that the road from Maclear to Halcyon Drift which was to have been tarred has now been removed from the Appropriation and I want to know what the future of this road is and what the problem is which has resulted in this road being removed, because in my opinion the traffic on this road justifies this provision.

Mr Chairman, I think that the first hon member who referred to the question of Black development was the hon member for King William’s Town. Although it is true that the province received only just over R109 million this year through the National Housing Fund, and although it is true that that will only enable us to complete certain projects that we have been committed to, it will also help us to supply funds to complete about 9 000 self-help units plus a further 350 subeconomic units. I shall come back to this again, but personally I do not think that we should be too pessimistic about the amount of money received through the National Housing Fund, since I fully agree with the hon member that it is not the function of Government alone to provide housing in this country.

*The hon member for Kimberley North made some very kind remarks about the involvement of the province at the time of the floods. I want to thank him for that. However, I believe that there are other people who deserve thanks and appreciation, and they are the civil defence services of the various local authorities. These civil defence organisations, in co-operation with other bodies, did excellent work during the recent floods in the Northern Cape; in particular, they saw to it that thousands of people from all communities in the disaster area were able to obtain temporary accommodation as well as food and clothing, and were given a timeous warning, in most cases, to flee from the path of the approaching flood-waters.

I should like to convey a special word of thanks to the Kimberley municipality for its assistance to the municipality of Ritchie in its hour of need, and to the Cape Town municipality for having made available its mobile communications vehicle to repair and improve radio communications in the disaster areas.

The hon member for Kimberley North also referred to the need for development in the Northern Cape, and it is true that serious needs exist in several of the smaller towns. The good news I have for the hon member is that in the case of Valspan, where there is a serious situation owing to the collapse of approximately 300 houses as a result of excessive rains, the province has already made an amount of R2 million available for the provision of infrastructure in the town and the survey and subdivision of Valspan into proper erven.

In addition, we have negotiated with the Housing Trust, inter alia, about the possible provision of funds for self-help building schemes in the case of Lekutseng.

In the case of Huhudi—I think that is the other place he referred to—near Vryburg, considerable amounts were made available during the previous financial year for community facilities, and in the current financial year, funds have again been made available for Huhudi.

The hon member for George dealt quite effectively, in my opinion, with the situation regarding Lawaaikamp. I have nothing to add to his remarks, either by way of criticism or factual comment. Perhaps I should just make one general statement, and I do not wish to be controversial about this. It is all very well to get emotional about the removal or non-removal of squatters or homeless people, as one hon member called them. However, when one reaches a stage in this country where one’s ownership of land no longer has any value in the sense that one can exercise control over it, and one can no longer control people who come from anywhere and who deprive one of one’s enjoyment of the rights conferred by ownership, then ownership has come to be of very little value in this country.

†The hon member for Gardens apologised for not being able to be present. At times I was not quite sure whether he was praising us or fighting with us.

In essence I think he said that the rate of development was too slow but with the exception of Brown’s Farm and KTC all the areas that he referred to are, in fact, being developed at the moment. In Old Crossroads area the first phase has been completed and this development has taken place over the last 18 months to two years. The first phase of the upgrading of Old Cross-roads has been completed and some 1 340 sites have been serviced. Private developers will move onto those sites within the next week to build 900 houses there. The second phase of development will commence within the next two months and will produce another 1 500 sites within the next eight to nine months. That will leave an area of about 48 ha or between another 1 200 and 1 400 sites to be serviced for the upgrading of Old Crossroads to be completed.

In Khayelitsha 4 450 residential sites plus 380 business sites have been serviced, of which 3 000 have been made available to private developers and a further 180 ha have been earmarked for joint development by private developers and the SA Housing Trust.

The hon the Administrator mentioned the figures this morning when he said that over the past two years 29 000 sites have been serviced throughout the Province. I am afraid a typographical error slipped into the speech of the hon Administrator because, in fact, 14 000 sites have been made available to private developers.

*This brings me to the hon member Mr Lockey. I shall reply in greater detail tomorrow to his criticism concerning the small plots in Khayelitsha. The hon member created the impression, if I understood him correctly, that it was all very well for the province to negotiate with the SA Housing Trust and with the Urban Foundation, but that it should now start negotiating with private developers. The fact is that I am not aware of a single project in the Cape Province at the moment that is being developed by the province and the Urban Foundation. As I have said, 14 000 plots have been made available to private developers for development over the past two years.

I must also mention at once that there are two ways in which the private sector can get involved in the provision of housing for the Black communities in particular. I think the easiest way would be for them to get involved quickly and to provide housing for the higher and middle income market, and then to take their profit and move out. In my opinion, that would be irresponsible and shortsighted. It would be equally irresponsible of the province to allow it. The more responsible way in which the private sector could get involved, in my opinion, would be by providing housing for a much bigger market. That is essentially what is happening in Khayelitsha at the moment. A total of 4 450 plots are being made available to private developers, subject to fairly tight restrictions. However, if the private sector is really interested in providing Black people with housing at a low cost, they are in fact being afforded the opportunity of entering that market. What is interesting is that more than 8 000 applications have been received for the 4 450 plots we have made available. Allocations have already been made to approximately 29 developers, and we hope that the building operations will commence within the next two or two and a half months.

No matter how we approach this need for development, there is one fact we must not lose sight of, and that is that the real problem is poverty. Providing only for the physical needs of a community is not going to get us very far. It is not going to solve the problems.

I believe that poverty is a problem that can be very successfully combated by the private and public sectors together.

I want to make haste. Hon members really should take the trouble to go to Crossroads, where a training centre has recently been completed with the aid of job creation funds. This training centre occupies an area of almost 4 500 square metres and was built by unemployed people within a period of 68 days. The training that will be provided at that centre will enable more people to earn their own livelihood than any other single effort that I know of.

Another very exciting development is that a so-called “people’s piazza” or “people’s agora” is being developed in Khayelitsha by private enterprise. A private developer has bought a fairly large site of just over 3ha, and he is putting up buildings on 70 residential plots around the periphery. Every built-up site will have its own small shop-front, and within the piazza there will be approximately 180 stalls, which the owners will be able to let to people from outside who want to come and make a living there. It is calculated that if this succeeds, approximately 500 job opportunities could be created within this small development.

That is all I want to say for the moment, Mr Chairman. I should prefer to reply in greater detail tomorrow to matters such as the hon member for Cape Town Gardens’ problems with the pace of development, and perhaps to say more about the planning and development being undertaken at the moment.

Mr Chairman, it is truly a great honour for me to participate in this Chamber with its beautiful red cushions today. Both my deceased father as well as my father-in-law were members of the old Senate. Hon members will therefore understand that this is an exceptional day for me on which I, too, can take my seat here.

Mr Chairman, just as Mr Theron did, I want to dwell briefly on points which hon members raised here today. I must say that it is a wide field I have to cover. It extends from hospitals, roads and horse races to agricultural shows. That is why I am rising to speak now, before other subjects are also raised.

When I refer to the first page of my notes I see that the hon member for Newholme, the hon member for Border, the hon member Mr Lockey and the hon member for Mamre all referred to hospitals. With the exception of a few other facets to which some of them referred, all of them discussed so-called apartheid in hospitals.

I now wish to begin with Mr Lockey, who made a very good contribution here today. Today I want to repeat what I explained previously to him on the committee concerning the two matters to which he referred, namely the underutilisation of certain facilities in hospitals by one population group while there is an overutilisation by other population groups. I assure him that I regard this matter in a very serious light. Furthermore the hon member referred to the hospital in Vryburg. After the previous occasion on which the committee met I immediately sent officials to Vryburg to undertake an investigation for us in this connection.

Shortly afterwards I paid a personal visit to Vryburg. I visited the hospital there and convened the hospital board. I can inform hon members today that it became apparent that there had in fact been an underutilisation of certain amenities. A ward had been closed, just as the hon member said. That is what we found there. As far as this underutilisation is concerned, arrangements have already been made for that ward to be placed at the disposal of non-White patients.

Furthermore I can inform the hon member that I am just as concerned about the question of the underutilisation of White nurses’ homes. To solve this problem is not so easy as it was to solve the problem of the ward in the Vryburg Hospital.

Before I discuss the matter further I just want to point out that there are also various other hospitals in which this problem of underutilisation by Whites and overutilisation by other population groups was given serious consideration.

To mention another example, we visited the Mowbray Maternity Home, and I just want to say that I shall continue in this way to try to ensure that the underutilisation of hospitals comes to an end before any further expansions at such a hospital will be initiated.

As regards the question of nurses’ homes, I do not have such a clear answer for hon members. As I said on a previous occasion, this matter has been investigated. The investigation has been completed and a report has been brought out. Unfortunately I find myself in the situation at the moment in which I am in possession of the report—it is in my briefcase here in the Chamber—but I have not yet had an opportunity to submit the recommendations and the findings of the investigation to the full committee. At the time the hon the Administrator and I both said that we needed approximately three months time. At the end of this month, on the occasion of the next full sitting of the Executive Committee, this report will be dealt with and I shall subsequently inform hon members of any resolutions which may result from it. That is what I have to say to Mr Lockey on this matter.

Other hon members, including Mr Lockey, also made the observation that they would prefer to have a choice about receiving treatment in a hospital. In this connection I should like to make two observations. In the first place there is no such thing as one race group receiving inferior treatment to another race group. In our hospitals all people receive precisely the same treatment. There is no discrimination in regard to the type of treatment nor its quality. If one member of a population group were able to choose where he received treatment in a hospital, he must remember that the person lying with him in that hall also has a choice as to who he wants to be with. In addition to that I have another problem at this stage. I think we are making wonderful progress in regard to the improvement of attitudes, and we must not be over-hasty with this matter.

I hope that I have replied satisfactorily in this connection to hon members, and I want to let that suffice. I want to express the hope that the hon member for Border is also satisfied.

The hon member for Border also referred to the East London-Grahamstown Road. I just want to tell him that at present in-depth talks are being held with the Department of Foreign Affairs in regard to the improvement of this road. Apparently this road does not have a high priority for the Ciskei and consequently they are not really interested in the condition of the road. The hon member is not present in the Chamber at the moment, and I want to tell him in his absence that his plea in connection with the Breidbach Bridge is a demonstration to us of how the system can work. I am saying this because today the hon member had an opportunity to bring this matter to the attention of the officials sitting here and my own, while we were not aware of their problem. I want to tell the hon member that we will definitely give attention to it.

†I come now to the hon member for King William’s Town. I want to thank him very much indeed for having gone to the trouble of getting his facts straight as far as the Revolving Loan Fund is concerned.

*It is very clear to me that the hon member knows what he is talking about, because the Revolving Loan Fund is not a matter that everyone is always fully conversant with. However, I want to tell him that while the province itself has to subsidise all the interest, it will only aggravate inflation to increase the interest rate. It can have no other effect.

The hon member for Springbok discussed roads in Brown residential areas. I want to tell the hon member that the department is already engaged in an investigation in this connection.

I want to add that in the past there was sufficient funds to subsidise some roads in White towns through the Provincial Administration. It was primarily the case—one must face up to these facts—that the main roads of our country’s ran through the middle of the White town. Those roads were usually tarred. The Coloured town usually adjoined the White town, and the main road normally did not run through it. To a large extent we are now deproclaiming these roads in the White towns. Every year more of them are deproclaimed, and they are no longer being subsidised because there are simply not enough funds to do so.

As regards the Coloured and Black towns, enquiries are being instituted to ensure that at least the entrances to these towns are provided with a tarred surface. In regard to all the places with the fine-sounding names which the hon member enumerated here, such as Pella, I want to give the hon member the undertaking that we shall look into those matters. I shall reply further to the hon member on this matter tomorrow, or if not, I shall provide the hon member with a written reply on the specific road problems he raised.

The hon member also discussed the minor roads. In this connection I am also referring to the hon member for De Aar, and at the same time I want to reply to his observations. As the committee heard from Mr Pretorius, certain of these roads situated in the two existing regional services councils were in fact subsidised this year by the Provincial Administration by way of a subsidy for the maintenance of subsidiary roads.

Furthermore I can point out that earnest representations were made to the Minister of Constitutional Planning and Development by the Provincial Administration, and that he in his turn is negotiating with the Minister of Finance to try to have these roads fully subsidised in future, when regional services councils are established.

I come next to the hon member for Queenstown, who discussed agricultural shows. We want to continue with this, but I rather doubt that we will be in a position to increase our assistance in this connection. We will probably have to keep to the 50% subsidy. We shall have to try to make the presentation of our shows more attractive and collect more funds for our shows ourselves. Nevertheless we are glad to be able to be of assistance in this connection.

The hon member also referred to the Midland Divisional Council and to differentiated levies. My colleague, Mr Schoeman, MEC, and I agreed that he would reply to the hon member on that score.

The hon member referred specifically to the road between Tarkastad and Hofmeyr. To all the hon members who discussed specific road projects for sections they wanted to have tarred, I want to say that we have ordered an investigation. The department has appointed a firm of consulting engineers, which is engaged in an investigation into all roads with an EVU count of more than 150 per day. EVU actually means “equivalent vehicle units”. They will draw up a priority list— I almost want to call it that—and place the roads in the sequence in which they will be improved, and some of which will ultimately be tarred. [Interjections.]

I hear Keimond being mentioned by way of interjection. I can give the assurance that the Keimond road is one that they are investigating. All the roads are being investigated, and that is why we can leave the matter at that.

The hon member for North-Western Cape—he is also, as I am, a person from the Northern Cape in the vicinity of Kimberley—also referred to the question of out-patients. It is very seldom possible to establish an out-patient department at these smaller hospitals in the rural areas. That is why we make use of the part-time district surgeons because we find that this is the most economical way of rendering an acceptable and good service in the rural areas.

I want to thank the hon member Mr D P de K van Gend for the excellent speech he made here on the Hospitals Department. I know that it came from the bottom of his heart. We are thankful for the study he made. We are pleased to know that there are people in Parliament who take such an interest in the work this department is doing. He did his homework well. I should like to thank him very much indeed.

The hon member for Haarlem spoke about hospital boards. I should like to tell him that among the general affairs hospitals there is not one at which there are not at least two Coloureds serving on the hospital board. As far as all the other hospitals are concerned, except for the Volks Hospital, the Provincial Hospital in Port Elizabeth and the Hospital in Walvis Bay, there are Coloureds serving on all the hospital boards.

He then referred to the nurses’ homes at Kareedouw. I want to tell the hon member that in the first place it is a hospital that is supported by the province, and not a provincial hospital. They have already approached us to make nurses dwellings available there. At present there is a shortage of accommodation for six White nurses and seven non-White nurses, but at the moment there is simply no accommodation in the town, and we do not have the funds now to build such a hostel.

The hon member referred to the possibility of more ambulance stations in the Langkloof. We can have that matter investigated, but I am afraid we will perhaps find that once again we are brought up short by a lack of funds.

Then we come to the hon member for Worcester, who requested extensions to his hospital. The planning, as he knows, has already been done, and at the moment tenders are being awaited in respect of certain of these services. We have major problems in regard to personnel, and there is a shortage of nurses, but certain of the services will shortly be made available there, and the others will follow as soon as funds allow.

Then we come to the hon member for False Bay. He has caused me something of a problem, because the province and those who supervise horse racing in the Cape Province get along very well together at the moment. I have every confidence in these people. I did not ask for this portfolio, but I got it. I am not a person who is conversant with horse races or gambling. The hon member will have to come with a more strongly motivated case before I will take such a drastic step as to order a committee of inquiry.

There is very good control over races and betting in the Cape. We know precisely what is bet on every race and what portion we must receive. I also read about this in the newspaper the other day. A person wrote to say that he could not understand why just any horse is able to win in the Cape. I feel that it should really be like that. Any horse must be able to win. [Interjections.]

I am sorry that I have to disappoint the hon member, but I also want to tell him something about the experience people had in Natal for example. At this stage we do not have any casinos near us in CapeTown, but in Natal and elsewhere it was the case that these people bet that money in any case. When the Pick 6 was introduced, however, they bet their money on the Pick 6 instead of running off to the casinos. I also want to say that nothing in the world is going to stop people from betting. That is simply the way it is—there are people who like taking a wager now and again, and we will not be able to stop them. If we do something about it we will simply be driving them underground.

The hon member for Bonteheuwel and I have had many pleasant conversations in my office. [Interjections.] He spoke about ambulances. [Interjections.] No, he works for his constituency. I want to tell him that we really have a problem with ambulances in this area. The population is increasing tremendously, and we do not have sufficient funds to allow us to make expansions in this area. The prices of ambulances have increased enormously. I do not want to enumerate all the figures for various types of ambulances now—perhaps I could give these figures to the hon member tomorrow—but a very simple ambulance today costs more than R100 000. Of course we have to provide this entire large province—many people mentioned today how large this province was—with ambulances. We shall have to obtain help from elsewhere in respect of ambulance services if we wish to improve them. I am prepared to have the matter reinvestigated to see whether we cannot render a better service by means of reorganisation.

I want to say one thing to the hon member for De Aar in regard to subsidiary roads. A great deal of unco-ordinated development took place in the irrigation areas. The roads department did not know in advance that these vast irrigation undertakings were going to development with focus points along the river. After they had come into existence, the farmers and MPs approached us with the complaint that they were unable to get their crops off the lands. We are saddled with a backlog…

They can convey the stuff in boats along the river.

It seems to me someone is suggesting a plan to the hon member for De Aar. We are in the process of negotiating, and it will cost approximately R17 million to build the roads in the irrigation areas along the Orange River. The point I want to make, however, is that we must try to prevent such uncoordinated development from taking place.

The hon member for Mamre expressed his thanks for the clinic in Mamre. I want to thank him for his words of appreciation. He also referred to Pella, and I shall have the matter investigated. Unfortunately I am not acquainted with all the routes the hon member mentioned. The hon the Minister of Transport Affairs recently announced that the West Coast road was going to be tarred, and that R90 million had been appropriated for this purpose. The province will help as far as it can, but I want to make it very clear that the project is not going to be financed with provincial funds. The West Coast road is going to be tarred primarily with tourism in mind. The hon member also has tourism in mind. In regard to the other roads to which the hon member referred I can inform him that we are at present engaged in an investigation of all roads with an equivalent vehicle unit count of more than 150 per day.

The hon member for Aliwal also referred to minor roads. I think I have dealt with this matter in sufficient detail. I want to thank him for the appreciation he conveyed to us for the assistance we rendered during the flood disaster. We can certainly give further attention to the situation, but our problem is that this area was not declared a disaster area. I shall definitely try to establish whether we can be of assistance to him. Furthermore I want to give hon members the assurance that we are doing our utmost to help them as far as hospitals and roads are concerned.

Mr Chairman, I would like to draw the Administrator’s attention to Vote No 10 on page 83, with specific reference to valuations. I read through Ordinance No 26 of 1944 but could not find any ways or means that could be used to “discriminate”. I am mentioning this because we discovered a subtle discriminatory practice in valuations which we are not very much aware of. I am going through this whole exercise because certain cases were brought to my attention in a letter. Years ago there was a similar problem with regard to Constantia and Grassy Park. In this instance one finds that the valuation of property in Constantia was lower than in Grassy Park.

*It occurred to me then that this was an elite residential area, but that poor people had to pay more. I shall leave it at that.

†I was hoping that this particular issue would have been eliminated in years to come because of deputations that were led to the Administrator. I would like to bring the Administrator’s attention to certain cases that occurred as recently as 1978. In case No 100 the valuation of a property in Glen Haven was R27 500 and the size of the plot was 575 square metres. The average valuation was R47,83 per square metre. This is in a Coloured area. The valuation for Sample No 99 was R29 000. The size of the plot was 653 square metres and the average valuation was R44,41 per square metre.

I want to go a little further to an adjacent area. The valuation for Sample 109 is R25 000 and the size of the plot is 985 square metres. This area is Ridgeworth and the valuation per square metre is R25,38. I want to go further and I want to take an area in Eversdale. The valuation of Sample No R149 is R37 000. The size of the plot is 1 446 square metres and the average valuation is R25,29 per square metre. If one takes an area in Labiance, Sample No 78, the valuation is R16 000, the size of the plot is 729 square metres and the average valuation is R21,95.

Let us look at the particular set-up and examine section 71 of Ordinance No 26 of 1944. Its states very clearly that if the director is of the opinion that any of the land values determined by the Valuation Court, are not fair and reasonable or should not for any reason be further considered, he shall remit such values to the Valuation Court for its reconsideration and decision. I feel that since we are now moving in the era of a new dispensation we should by now have moved away from these discriminatory measures.

This has to do with valuations and I feel that this is one of the things that are really impeding our development, because if one looks at our areas, one sees that there is a lack of proper roads and the infrastructure needed for development yet one finds that we have to pay this enormous amount per square metre. I feel there ought to be a rethink or revaluation when it comes to this type of thing. I wonder if one were to make a complete investigation and run through the whole exercise whether this particular discrimination would be found throughout every area.

*When there are two adjacent areas, the valuations in the Coloured area are higher. I am putting the matter bluntly, but I expect the Administrator to rectify the situation here today, because it is a matter one encounters every day and people are very dissatisfied about it.

I want to go further. A problem relating to rates in a very small developed town has been brought to my notice. I wish to refer to the Coloured town of Middleton, near Caledon. This local authority levies rates amounting to 4,2 cents per rand on behalf of the Caledon Divisional Council. This has been approved by the Administrator. If one were to investigate the matter, one would see that that local authority provides that community with the bare minimum of services.

There is a clinic service and water is supplied to the town. There is a sewerage system—a pumping system—for 20 subeconomic houses. However, that is just about all. There is no proper stormwater drainage, only ditches next to the roads. There are no kerbstones or tarred roads. There is no security service either. No street lighting is provided. There is no question of public gardens; the whole area is overgrown. There are no parks or community centres…

Is it not a nature reserve? [Interjections.]

The local authority does not provide any sports facilities either, Sir, nor does it maintain a cemetery. I could go on in this vein.

In spite of all these things, rates are levied there at a higher rate than in any of the towns that we know. In the White part of Caledon, the community already has all the facilities to which I have referred. However, they are taxed at a lower rate.

It is disgraceful!

The hon the Administrator must decide whether or not this is correct. I do not understand the explanation that is given. The rate of taxation is high because the valuations are low! As far as the low valuation is concerned, Sir—not the occupant, especially if he cannot afford to pay his rates—the recovery value is immediately equated to the valuation of the said property. The local authority is only protecting itself in this connection. In such a case it is sure to get a bargain. At the same time, it can point to the fact that it provides the municipal services. It is high time, therefore, that this matter was thoroughly investigated.

Sir, one of my hon colleagues asked me to make a point of mentioning our management system. We have management committees, the members of which do not receive any remuneration or allowances. These people are involved in the activities of the local authorities…

It is McGregor!

Yes, it is indeed McGregor! The request has been made—I think I mentioned this last time as well—that urgent attention should be given to the road across the mountain at McGregor. It is only about eight kilometres in length, and it would drastically reduce the distance to Cape Town. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I shall demonstrate my loyalty by first answering the question of the hon member for Queenstown. I see that he is not in the Chamber at the moment; I should appreciate it if hon members would convey this to him. He asked on what grounds there could be a differentiated levy rate in the area of jurisdiction a divisional council, and referred to Midland. The fact of the matter is that it was the case up to and including 1981. After that a uniform levy rate was introduced in the divisional council area of Midland.

The hon member for Bonteheuwel made the statement that the local authority wanted to provide a parking area at Kogel Bay, and that he thought a tidal pool was more important. Firstly, I must say that the allocations that are made by the province do not give the local authorities carte blanche. Allocations are made for specific projects.

In this regard I can perhaps mention what the identified projects at Kogel Bay, Harmonie-strand and Hendon Park are: At Kogel Bay—a tidal pool; ablution facilities; water supply; road construction; landscaping; staff housing; the construction of an entrance. Secondly, at Harmoniestrand—a tidal pool; the purchase of the golf course in order to expand the whole area there; ablution facilities; landscaping.

With regard to Hendon Park, we are planning the upgrading of the existing facilities, including the provision of a caravan park and a tidal pool. Hon members can therefore see that we are definitely paying attention to the need for tidal pools to make the beach facilities safer for our people.

The hon member for Haarlem made the statement that the sale of business sites by public auction was the only fair way to do this.

No, I did not say that.

That was the hon member’s last sentence, but I do not want to argue with him. All I want to say is that the province actually endorses that statement. As recently as 15 February this year the policy was reconfirmed by means of a circular, to the effect that a local authority that wanted to dispose of business sites that were council property had to do so by public tender or public auction and that the province would only give permission for out-of-hand sales in highly exceptional cases, because it was a minefield. It creates the opportunity for preferential treatment, something which could cause us many problems.

The hon member for Bishop Lavis referred to evaluations. Firstly, I want to tell him that in most cases evaluations are done by trained provincial valuers; exceptions occur in the cases of a few of our much larger local authorities who use their own valuers. These valuers use the market value as a basis, which is determined by what a willing buyer is prepared to pay a willing seller. That is the basis for their estimate. They then send out a number of trial estimates. These trial estimates are evaluated in a valuation court. Taxpayers have access to this and they have the right to object to these trial estimates. Only when the trial estimates have been accepted is the general valuation done.

I want to tell hon members at once that the valuer’s valuation of the property value actually has nothing to do with the levy rate. The levy rate is determined by the budget; in other words, the need for a certain income is the decisive factor. The total property value of the local authority area is then used, and the levy rate is then determined in order to generate that particular income.

Mr Chairman, may I ask the hon member of the Executive Committee a question?

Not at this stage, Mr Chairman, as my time is limited.

Various speakers referred to the reform process in our country. The constitutional reform process is unstoppable in its momentum towards reform on the third tier of government as well. Despite whatever is said about it, the realities and the demands of our time require that this process go ahead without interruption. Sometimes the process is slow and sometimes fast, and often it is uphill, but it continues. To the degree in which provincial government is involved in this, and to the degree in which it falls within the framework of its functions, it is not only promoting this process but is also implementing it in an orderly and planned manner.

Great things have been achieved during the past year with the establishment of the first regional services councils. The hon the Administrator referred to this in his speech. However, it must be emphasised that from the very outset a unique situation existed in the Cape Province as a result of historical factors as well as its vast size. The inhabitants of the Cape Province are accustomed to being served by a local authority even in the remotest areas. The inhabitants of the Cape Province are also accustomed to making a financial contribution and to receiving certain services in return.

Our rural fanning population was an inseparable part of this system. That local authority system, the Division Council system, satisfied a particular need and established itself on those grounds in this large province for nearly 130 years. At the same time a wealth of knowledge, experience and expertise was accumulated—not only by the decision-makers, but also by the officials who had to render the service.

On this occasion I should like to express profound thanks and appreciation on behalf of the province to the host of council members and officials for an excellent service over many years in an outstanding system. This province therefore has this enormous source of knowledge and expertise that it can apply in its regional services councils. It can only be to the advantage of the system. It actually gives the Cape Province a phenomenal head start.

There are many functions provided by divisional councils that are identified as regional functions by law. Therefore, the Cape Province is ahead of its counterparts in other provinces. The regional services councils provide not only a development function, but also a service function at the same time. The regional services councils of the Cape Province therefore commence their service-rendering function as a continuation of divisional council function with the same well-trained personnel. These personnel are, as is shown by the existing regional services councils, in a position to manage the treasury function so effectively that the computer programme of the Algoa Regional Services Council is being bought by other regional services councils. That is proof of the advantages that the Cape Divisional Council system offers to new regional services councils.

However, there are also own affairs functions that the regional services councils are providing as continuation functions of divisional councils owing to their involvement and expertise. However, they are fulfilling this function as an agent, and for the account of the principal until such time as the principal should decide otherwise. If an own affairs department were to decide to manage the function itself, the Abolition of Development Bodies Amendment Act makes provision for negotiation with the staff to be transferred along with the function.

Budgets are at present being considered. Expression is being given to the proviso to section 12(6) for the function of implementing, improving and maintaining the infrastructure services and facilities in areas in which an urgent need exists.

In the vast rural area of the Cape Province, it is clear that services that can be provided on a regional basis, are extremely limited. Nevertheless, each White town forms an interdependent economic community with its neighbouring Brown or Black towns as, in most cases, they share services such as water, electricity, sewerage and the like. Therefore, there is a need for a forum in which these communities can discuss matters of common interest such as funds for large-scale services.

Some speakers see this vacuum as a need for mini-regional services councils. In order to prevent structural problems and in order to find a solution within the concept of the existing law, the province will have to investigate the possibility of the implementation of section 10(a) committees in these areas as a viable alternative in order to address this fundamental problem.

This is only one example of the possibilities that this exciting system offers; possibilities that can be investigated, utilised and adapted in the future.

Tomorrow I shall deal with hon members who spoke about beaches and say more about the matter. Thank you very much.

Business interrupted.

Order! Before we begin with the business of this Committee, I merely want to announce, in consequence of the sudden demise yesterday evening of Mr Peter Jacobs, the member of Parliament for Alra Park in the House of Representatives, that I understand that a telegram was sent by Mr Speaker to Mr Jacobs’ family this morning in which he expressed his condolences on behalf of all members.

Mr Chairman and hon members, I am sure that I speak on behalf of all present here this morning when I say how shocked and saddened we were to hear of the events of last night, which brought about the untimely death of the hon member for Alra Park. It is perhaps a sign of the times in which we live that we have to receive news of this kind; a sign also, I suppose, of lowered standards and tension.

I am sure it is the wish of all of us that there be conveyed—as you have done, Sir, in your announcement—to his wife and his immediate family and friends our shock and sadness at this event.

Would you, Sir, allow me to ask this House to rise for a moment in silence as a mark of respect. Thank you.

Mr Chairman, with reference to what the hon the Administrator has said, on behalf of the party I represent and on behalf of the hon members of the House of Representatives and, no doubt, all hon members present in this Chamber today, I wish to say that we too are saddened and shocked at the happenings of last night. We are saddened at the loss of Mr Peter Jacobs, the member for Alra Park. We are not only saddened by his untimely death, we are shocked by the manner in which it happened.

Peter Jacobs was a hard-working man. He always impressed one with his honesty and his integrity. Above all, he was a man of the people—one who identified closely with the community he served. We, too, wish to convey our deepest sympathies to his wife, members of his family and his friends.

Mr Chairman, on behalf of all the hon members of the House of Delegates I, too, join others in paying tribute to the family of the late Mr Jacobs.

We have known him not only from the time the tricameral Parliament was established in August 1984, but before that, when he played an active role not only in the affairs of the Coloured community, but in the affairs of the South African community.

Like all of us who were not in Parliament before 1984, we realise the perils, the problems and the trials we are going to be subjected to in our important decision to play a role in leading this country towards a course of peaceful evolutionary change. One does not really know the motive of this sad and tragic incident that took place last night. Nevertheless it was a cowardly act, performed against a person who lived a life of peace and practised a life of peace.

On behalf of the hon members of the House of Delegates, I express our deepest condolences to the family of the late Mr Jacobs.

Mr Chairman, we on this side of the House, as the representatives of the NP, would like to associate ourselves with the sentiments expressed by the hon the Administrator and the representatives of the House of Representatives and the House of Delegates.

I believe that all of us who are meeting here as members of Parliament, are shocked at the news of what happened yesterday. It indicates to us that there is an element of danger for all of us who live according to our convictions. I think it is a lesson to us that the high price Mr Jacobs paid by giving his life in the service of his people may also be required of each one of us.

Mr Chairman, on behalf of the CP, I should also like to associate myself with the sentiments expressed here in regard to the untimely death of Mr Peter Jacobs. We mourn with his wife and his dear ones, and associate ourselves fully with the condolences expressed here today.

Mr Chairman, on behalf of the hon members of the PFP in the House of Assembly and the House of Delegates, we associate ourselves fully with the views expressed concerning the unfortunate and terrible demise of Mr Peter Jacobs.

We all know that violence and politics, unfortunately, go together in this country. We in this Chamber, and Parliament as a whole, know that we must reject the linking of violence and politics totally and absolutely.

We bear in our minds the memory of this man, who served not only his community, but the greater South Africa. We convey our condolences to his wife and to his family.

Mr Chairman, we in the National Democratic Movement associate ourselves with the condolences expressed here this morning by the gentlemen who spoke before me. I do not wish to add to it. Our thoughts in these times are with the wife and family of the late hon member and we wish them strength.

Mr Chairman, I wish to associate myself strongly with the expression of sympathy that has been extended to the family of Mr Jacobs. Obviously one looks in absolute horror and disgust at the manner in which the victim was assaulted. I want to convey my deepest condolences to his family.

Mr Chairman, on behalf of my family and the United Democratic Party I wish to extend my deepest sympathy to the family of the late hon member for Alra Park. Peter, may your soul rest in peace.

Mr Chairman, as the administrator who presided over the final proceedings of the old provincial council in this historic chamber in June 1986 it is with particular pleasure that I have the honour of presenting a Budget speech here today. May I remind hon members of what I said in my Budget speech of 4 June 1985. On that day I said that I would not be surprised if an administrator would once again in the future present his budget to a representative institution in this chamber. I said in addition that if I were asked, I would recommend that the new standing committee of Parliament dealing with the provincial affairs of Natal should sit in this chamber in Pietermaritzburg.

So it has come about that this old building which was erected in 1889 and which has for nearly 100 years housed the legislature representative of the White community, is now for the first time in the long and eventful history of this province the home of an elected parliamentary institution representative of a far wider community than ever before. I do not wish to suggest that this extended standing committee of Parliament is the end of the road in so far as the constitutional development of regional government is concerned, but that it represents progress along the road of such development cannot, I believe, be gainsaid.

It is, I think, most appropriate that this historic occasion should be taking place during the celebration of the 150th anniversary of the founding of Pietermaritzburg, the capital city of this province.

With those few words of introduction, I now come to the financial matters before us.

1987-88 Financial Year

I shall now deal briefly with the province’s position in view of the closure shortly of the financial books of the province for the 1987-88 financial year. As members are aware, the province was able to draw up additional estimates for incorporation into the Additional Appropriation Act of Parliament to the amount of R87,165 million in order to cover the basic needs of the province to 31 March 1988 which included additional funds granted by the Treasury. Firstly, for the restoration of flood damage an amount of R69,487 million was granted. Secondly, for the loss of the fuel rebate to the administration and local authorities a sum of R3 million was granted. Thirdly for the shortfall in respect of the 12,5% general salary adjustment and improved service conditions in respect of certain career specific dispensations, in particular medical personnel, an amount of R12,542 million was granted.

Although at the present time the province’s final financial position is not known, I am nevertheless pleased to report, especially in these times of financial stringency, that the province has been able to meet its financial commitments and should close the financial year with a substantial surplus.

*1988-89 financial year

Unlike in the past, when the province’s allocation from the Treasury was based on a formula, a guideline amount, which totalled R925,9 million for this financial year, is now being allocated to the Vote of the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning by the Treasury. Because of the policy of restricting expenditure by the public sector to the lowest possible level without seriously disrupting existing services, the province was requested to draw up a draft budget using this amount and taking the provincial revenue into account.

Should one draw a comparison with the original budget for 1987-88, the province is faced with the challenge of meeting its requirements for 1988-89 on the basis of an increase of approximately 3,5%. As was customary in the past, the Treasury reduced the draft budget, cutting down on it by an amount of R16,5 million.

Special allocations were, however, made by the Treasury for example the continuation costs of the general salary adjustment of 12,5% to the amount of R54,828 million, flood relief to the amount of R13,559 million, R86,31 million in respect of 11 hospitals and institutions which devolved from the Department of National Health and Population Development, and the take-over of the Government Garage function from the Department of Transport Affairs to the amount of R8,722 million. This resulted in a total allocation of R1 112,158 million, and together with the province’s own revenue of R195 362 million from taxes and departmental receipts, it was possible to calculate the final draft budget at R1 307,52 million.

Revenue 1988-89

Compared with the original 1987-88 budget, the present financial year shows an increase of R218,389 million or 20,05% which is made up as follows:

1. (1) An increase of R26,418 million under the heading “Provincial taxation and departmental receipts” which can be ascribed mainly to:
   1. (a) An increase of R6,192 million in totalisator tax because of greater support by the public;
   2. (b) motor vehicle registration and licence fees which were increased by approximately 11% with effect from 1 September 1987 and will yield an expected increase of R5,85 million; and
   3. (c) revised hospital fees in the changed collection system which took effect on 1 April 1988 and will be responsible for an increase of R15,606 million.
2. (2) A comparison between the estimated revenue for 1988-89 and the original budget for 1987-88 under the heading: “Allocations, grants, etc” shows an increase of R191,971 million which requires explanation.

The difference of R215,369 million between the Treasury allocation of R1 102,556 million in respect of 1988-89 and that of R887,187 million in respect of 1987-88 arises from certain functions which were transferred from the central Government to the province, as well as allocations for flood relief and the continuation costs of the salary adjustment of 12,5% as from 1 July 1987.

This increase is, however, being reduced because an amount of R33 million was allocated by the Treasury during 1987-88 for the general salary adjustment of 12,5% as from 1 July 1987, whereas only R9,602 million was allocated during 1988-89 for salary improvements which are related mainly to endowments for various staff groups as well as the removal of disparity between population groups. The net result is an increase of R191,971 million.

†Expenditure 1988-89

Having dealt with revenue, I now come to expenditure in respect of the 1988-89 financial year. Mr Chairman, before I embark on the explanation of the various Votes, I wish to draw attention to the fact that the difference between the 1988-89 and 1987-88 financial years is R212 851 million. Of this amount R203,222 million represents services which devolved on the province, which leaves an amount of only R9,629 million to meet increased costs. It is therefore quite obvious that the province has had to cut back on certain of its services to be able to frame its estimates within the available funds.

Vote No 1—“General Administration”:

The provision for 1988-89 is R15,579 million more than the original provision for 1987-88 and it mainly relates to (a) the effect of the 12,5% general salary adjustment; (b) post expansion and incorporation of services previously provided for under Vote 6, and (c) an increased special contribution to the Civil Pensions Stabilisation Account.

Vote No 2—“Hospitals, Medical and Health Services”:

The current financial year reveals an increase of R164,737 million over the provision for 1987-88, which is mainly attributable to the following:

1. (a) the effect of the 12,5% general salary adjustment, coupled with certain career-specific dispensations;
2. (b) over and above the normal wage drift, provision was made for limited post expansion as well as to cater for an under-provision in the previous financial year;
3. (c) provision for 11 hospitals and institutions which devolved from the Department of National Health and Population Development; and
4. (d) increased costs of supplies and services, in particular drugs and medicines.

Vote No 3—“Roads and Bridges”:

An increase of 18,31% has been allowed on this Vote, which represents an increase of R38,975 million. The main reasons for this increase are:

1. (a) the effect of the 12,5% general salary adjustment as well as certain career-specific dispensations, for a full year;
2. (b) provision for flood relief;
3. (c) a greater provision under the road maintenance subhead of the Vote as the normal maintenance programme for 1987-88 was delayed in order to concentrate on flood damage restoration;
4. (d) provision for the Special Treasury Road from Ulundi to Nongoma; and
5. (e) the need to provide for Government Garage expenditure which has devolved on us from the Department of Transport.

These increases amount to R45,635 million. Apart from these increases, which are abnormal, there has been an overall decrease of R6,660 million or 3,13% in this Vote as compared with the original provision for 1987-88.

Vote No 4—“Works”:

An amount of R64,137 million has been provided under Vote 4—“Works”. This is R6,236 million or 10,77% higher than the original provision for 1987-88. This is a combination increase of 8,13% on the non-capital portion of the Vote which amounts to R4,709 million, and only 2,64% on the major works or capital portion, which amounts to R1,527 million. The main reasons for these increases are:

1. (a) the effect of the 12,5% general salary adjustment as well as certain career-specific dispensations, for a full year;
2. (b) the incorporation of the salary and salary-related costs of the works personnel of the Community Services office previously provided under Vote No 6—“Community Services”;
3. (c) provision for capital and maintenance requirements in respect of places of safety; and
4. (d) small increases for maintenance of buildings, and for furniture and equipment required for relocation of the Head Office component of Works.

Vote No 5—“Miscellaneous”;

An amount of R81,821 million has been provided for this Vote, which is R11,1 million greater than the original provision for 1987-88. The increase is attributable mainly to necessary increased assistance to statutory bodies which fall under the control of the province. The increased subsidy covers rising costs in general as well as the effects of the 12,5% general salary adjustment for a full year, to the personnel of the Natal Parks Board, the Development and Services Board and the Natal Sharks Board.

The increase for the Natal Performing Arts Council is due to the fact that full subsidisation of this body is the sole responsibility of the province as from 1988-89.

I also wish to draw attention to the provision under a new subhead J: Joint Executive Authority: KwaZulu-Natal, to allow for the province’s 50% share of administrative costs and nominal amounts in specific fields for possible future development.

Vote No 6—“Community Services":

As from 1987-88 this became a new Vote in the Administration’s estimates and, to refresh your memory, Mr Chairman, basically covers the cost of functions which devolved on the Administration from the Department of Constitutional Development and Planning and the former Natalia Development Board.

An amount of R196 893 000 has been provided for Vote 6 in 1988-89, which is R378 000 or 0,19% less than the original provision of R197 271 000 for 1987-88. In view of such a minor overall change in the Estimates for 1988-89 compared with that for 1987-88 no further comment is necessary.

Vote No 7—“Improvement of Conditions of Service”:

Mr Chairman, this Vote was created in 1987-88 at the Treasury’s request to make provision for the first year of expenditure resulting from improved conditions of service of officers and employees of the NPA, and other persons whose remuneration is paid or subsidised fully or partly by the province, such as personnel of the statutory bodies and persons attached to institutions such as mission hospitals who are financed fully or partly from the Account for Provincial Services: Natal. The provision for 1987-88 amounted to R33 million towards the 12,5% general salary adjustment as from 1 July 1987. The Commission for Administration has allocated an amount of R9 602 000 for the 1988-89 financial year for career-specific dispensations for various groups of personnel, as well as for the removal of disparity between population groups. By comparison, therefore, this represents a decrease of R23 298 000 or 70,9%.

In drawing up this Budget the Executive Committee has tried to heed the exhortations of all financial authorities to avoid stoking the fires of inflation by means of limiting Government expenditure, whilst at the same time providing adequate services for the people of this province. I trust that this standing committee will find that in this difficult task we have achieved some measure of success.

Mr Chairman, I do not at this stage propose to speak in detail about the Budget which the hon the Administrator has just presented to the committee, except to express our gratification on behalf of the NP at the prospect of a surplus to which he referred.

Allow me briefly to congratulate the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee with the realistic Budget he has presented to this committee. Secondly, I also congratulate and thank him for his untiring efforts to serve the interests of Natal through the allocation of funds. Thirdly, I believe thanks are due to the hon the Administrator for the way in which he has managed the province over the past number of years through one of its most difficult periods of change. Especially over the last two years I, as chairman of the Standing Committee on Natal Provincial Affairs, have been very closely in touch with the Administration of this province. We, as members of the standing committee, can vouch for the efforts of not only the hon the Administrator, but also the members of his Executive Committee.

Perhaps this is an appropriate time to make it clear that this meeting here today is not the Standing Committee on Natal Provincial Affairs, as has been incorrectly stated in an editorial of one of our Natal newspapers on Friday. This is in fact Parliament, in its Natal component, sitting here in its entirety. I think it is perhaps fitting and necessary that at some stage consideration be given to changing the names of the various committees so that confusion between the Joint Standing Committee on Natal Provincial Affairs and the extended parliamentary committee, this meeting here, should not arise so easily.

This is indeed an historic occasion. Through a coincidence this is the first joint debating session that the four components of Parliament will have in the various capitals. As such, it is the first time that a unanimous decision of the three Houses of Parliament is being implemented. Secondly, it is historic in the sense that we are again gathered here in the old Legislative Chamber of Natal, on yet another momentous occasion. I have no doubt that for the vast majority of Natalians, the transfer of parliamentary debate on Natal’s Budget to the province will be a joyous occasion, even though there are undoubtedly those who, like the Natal Mercury on Friday, would prefer to lament the loss of the provincial councils and its debates.

I have said before, and I say again, that the fact that the responsibility for provincial legislation and government has passed into the hands of Parliament and parliamentarians does not mean that accountability for the province and provincial policies are in any way diminished. On the contrary, there are today almost 60 members of Parliament here, mainly representing people of Natal. Each of these members is partly charged with the responsibility to ensure good government at provincial level also, while the old provincial council boasted only 20 members. Moreover, the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee now have the opportunity to account for their actions and to tell the people of Natal of the provision of funds to representatives of all the people of Natal other than the Zulus, who have their seat of government at Ulundi.

As for the attempts to minimise the allocated 10 hours debating time as all that is allocated for the affairs of Natal, I am afraid it shows the ignorance of many as to how the new system works. People who say that only 10 hours are allocated to Natal forget that the standing committee has not only already spent days on this Budget, but that further time must be found during the year for the consideration of the Auditor-General’s report on Natal’s accounts and for the consideration of all draft legislation for the province. I spent nine years with the Natal Provincial Council in this Chamber, five of them as leader of the opposition, and I can assure hon members that the duties of the parliamentary standing committee are every bit as onerous and time-consuming as those of the former provincial councils.

The prophets of doom, I imagine, had similar laments in 1910, when they surveyed the diminished role of the new provincial councils, vis-á-vis the former colonial parliaments. May I suggest that those who saw that what South Africa gained in 1910 by the act of Union was of greater importance than the loss of parliamentary status for Natal have been shown over the years to have been the more far-sighted people. Similarly, the creation of the tricameral Parliament has necessitated that a price had to be paid. The Americans have a saying: “There is always a price-tag.” In this particular case the price that had to be paid was the price of doing away with a multiplicity of White legislative bodies in order that several group-related councils could come into being. I have little doubt that the choice to abolish provincial councils in favour of this system where people from the White as well as the Coloured and Indian communities can serve in the highest level of government, was the right one.

Sir, in conclusion, in the last minute or two that I have at my disposal, I noticed that some of the opposition parties in the House of Assembly have certain reservations and objections to the time allocated to them in this committee for the next two days. I do not want to analyse the time allocated, since this is something that the Whips should do. However, hon members of the PFP have indicated that they only have three hon members and consequently feel that the time allocated to them is too short. That is simply untrue. I refer to the article that was published in the Daily News last week.

They are annoyed because their three hon members in Natal have less time than the CP. They seem to have forgotten that there are two hon members from the House of Delegates who are also hon members of the PFP. The time allocated to them should also be taken as time allocated to the PFP. If the PFP chooses not to regard the two hon members in the House of Delegates as hon members of the PFP in their own right, that is their concern. However, if that is so, it is the worst example of paternalism I have ever seen in this country.

As far as the objections to their debating time on the part of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly is concerned, I have little doubt that their threats to boycott these proceedings were merely an attempt to save face. So far, none of these threats have materialised. As far as their representative position in Natal is concerned, they simply do not exist. The CP is here today by the grace of the tricameral system which they have pledged to destroy. Consequently, if they choose to boycott these proceedings, we certainly would have no objection to that. Natal can do very well without the policies of the CP and we can continue without their assistance. They have told newspapers that they have been allocated less time than hon members of the House of Representatives and the House of Delegates. That is a racist argument, if ever I heard one. We have much pleasure in supporting the Bill.

Mr Chairman, I am pleased to follow in this debate after those remarks. I would like to start off by saying that I am pleased that I have the opportunity today of speaking at an extended Parliamentary committee meeting which is multi-racial in its composition and structure. I think this is the forerunner of the inevitable.

Today is an historic occasion. I echo the sentiments expressed by the previous speaker. However, my one disappointment is that on this historic occasion, a very large component of the Natal population is not represented in this forum.

I believe that something ought to be done. The process of reform ought to be implemented rapidly to address that particular situation.

I also feel it would be apt on this occasion to consider the role of the late Mr Frank Martins. I believe that the role of the old Executive Committee of the province has been significant. Its significance was the emergence of the KwaZulu/Natal Indaba. I believe that, whilst the executive at that time was only representative of one race group, it made significant progress towards a regional solution. Now that we have a nominated, appointed, multi-racial committee in Natal, I think their role should be even greater. They should play a much more significant role in trying to achieve a regional solution as soon as possible.

To achieve this regional solution, I believe they should act as a link between the State and the KwaZulu government and the people of Natal in general. Whilst this is an historic occasion, it is unfortunate that we do not have a total solution. I believe today’s meeting will be the forerunner of the eventual provincial structure for Natal which will be representative of all its people.

Whilst I understand that the provincial executive will be here, it is not in a position to bring about constitutional change. I believe they have to work on assignments, delegated to them and instructed by the central Government. Whilst that is so, I believe that within the provincial ordinance itself, the Executive Committee could look at some of the issues that affect people of colour. I believe that the provincial executive should, in fact, introduce changes in the provincial ordinance to address those problems that affect people of colour.

Here I would like to refer to the rating system which exists in this particular province. The rating system is based on supply and demand. Properties are valued in respect of purchase price and the market value of properties. Based on that valuation, rates are paid. Obviously Indians living in the same town as Whites are being forced to pay higher prices because of the Group Areas Act and the supply and demand situation. They are obliged to pay higher interest rates for comparable properties situated in a White area.

The Administrator will no doubt remember the impasse that has built up in Westville and Grey Street on this very issue. An attempt had been made by the introduction of an amendment to the ordinance and by way of section 151(10). When a property is affected as a result of the Group Areas Act, the local authority may allow a rebate of 40%. In spite of that amendment, that was not a solution in itself. I believe the local authorities were reluctant to give rebates, because it affected their own budgets because local authorities were represented by just one particular race group. The local authorities therefore could quite rightly be considered as judge and jury in their own cause.

I believe an interim solution would be an amendment to the ordinance, allowing the Appeals Board to act as an arbiter in respect of determining rebates for people who are affected by the Group Areas Act. I make this submission to the Administrator and Executive Committee for serious consideration in this particular forum. Obviously the ideal situation would be the repeal of the Group Areas Act, but I know the provincial authority is not in a position to do that. However, we will take this up in another forum. Here, in this forum, I think it is well within the ambit of the Administrator and the Executive Committee to introduce that particular amendment I have suggested. It will bring some measure of relief and remove conflict at local level.

I also want to deal with another aspect. Insofar as the existing local authorities structures are concerned, they are based on race. The towns in Natal—except for one or two—are controlled by their particular race group. Until such time as we have a structure at that particular level, which is acceptable to all the inhabitants in local authorities, the province should refrain from devolving any further powers on local authorities. It will, in effect, devolve powers on just one particular group or race in a local authority. I appeal to the provincial authorities not to attempt to bring about a devolution of power at this particular stage until such time as we have local government structures that are acceptable to people in local authority areas. This was the topic of a debate on a proposed amendment we dealt with quite extensively.

We are looking forward to the recommendations of the province as regards the accommodation of the aspirations of all the people of Natal at local government level. With great interest we await their recommendations regarding what the provincial executive in its multiracial character believes would be the type of structure acceptable to the people of Natal. I mention this because it brings us to the beach issue.

We have a lot of conflict on the beaches. I do not want to go into all the details as I believe hon members have followed this in the media. Some political parties have exploited the situation as well. [Interjections.] We are fully aware of this. However, I believe that this is the result of beaches being under the control of local authorities and having been zoned on racial lines. The original zoning on racial lines has created frustration and has been a potential source of much conflict. Therefore, whilst the hon MEC might consider this to be rubbish, I would suggest that he should check his own facts in that regard.

I believe the hon MEC who interjected should in fact understand the frustration and anger of people of colour when it comes to being removed from beaches that are zoned on racial lines. The control by local authorities of certain beaches or the areas surrounding those beaches really acts as a blocking mechanism to keep people of colour from getting the use of the beaches.

A lot has been said about the conflict when beaches are open. I would like to cite the example of hotels when their use was purely on racial lines. When it was said that hotels should be open to all races there was a lot of resistance. People thought that the sky was going to fall. Eventually all hotels were opened to all races and nothing happened. I think the same would apply if all beaches all over the country were to be opened to all races.

At this stage I would like to quote from a standing committee report dated Friday, 12 June 1987. I quote:

Order! I regret having to interrupt the hon member, but his time has expired.

Mr Chairman, I rise merely to afford the hon member an opportunity to complete his speech.

Mr Chairman, I am indebted to the hon member.

I would like to move on to another aspect. When one investigates the funds that are allocated to Natal for the hospital service itself, the doctor to patient ratio and the nurse to patient ratio, one will find that Natal is lagging behind in comparison to the other provinces. This fact emerged at the discussion in the standing committee as well. I would like to suggest that the provincial executive in fact put greater pressure on the Treasury to ensure that more funds are made available, that services are improved and equipment is not confined to any specific hospital. Hospitals on a regional basis throughout the province should all have these facilities. There is certain very sophisticated equipment and I am not a medical man and therefore cannot go into details, using medical jargon. However, I do know that certain sophisticated equipment is only available at Greys Hospital and Addington Hospital. These hospitals are not frequented by the general public of Natal. For instance the brain-scanning machine is only available at these two hospitals. King Edward VIII Hospital and various other hospitals serve a very large community and I believe that all these hospitals should have these facilities, because they are important if we want to provide a proper service.

I also believe that hospitals are established with public funds and therefore they should be available to the public regardless of race. Any person needing treatment should be in a position to walk into any hospital without being turned away because of race considerations. I also believe that having hospitals under own and general affairs is absurd. The provincial executive should ensure that hospitals will at all times remain a general affair. They should not be regarded as an own affair. In this particular regard the House of Delegates makes it very clear that regardless of which political parties we may belong to, the general feeling is that we would like hospitals to fall under general affairs rather than own affairs.

I would like to deal with another aspect. Since the provincial executive is multiracial in its character and it deals with the question of group areas permits, certain perceptions are now created. The Indian and Coloured members stand accused of refusing permits. A large number of permits have been declined and I believe that this obnoxious practice of having to decline permits to people who wish to acquire property or to occupy it, should be done away with. In fact, such applications should be considered favourably and granted. I believe that whilst the Act itself has to be addressed in another forum, in terms of its delegated powers the provincial executive should understand that by refusing group areas permits it is creating conflict. This is another potential conflict area. I am aware of the fact that there are situations where the local authority, as well as the LAC concerned, supports the application for a permit yet, for some strange, unknown reason such an application is turned down by the provincial authorities in Pietermaritzburg. I believe that this is an unacceptable situation, especially when the two local governing bodies do support the application. This whole practice is an indictment to our human dignity.

I would like to repeat what I said earlier, that the ideal for us in Natal, especially if we want to see stability in this particular province, is the establishment of non-racial local authorities. I believe there should be a closer link between the provincial authority and all these local organisations through their provincial associations.

I must say that I was a bit disappointed when I was advised that on 29 July 1987 a letter from the provincial secretary to some senior members of the Natal Association was sent out, which read as follows and I quote:

Whilst the intention in this particular letter might be good, I would like to take this opportunity to say that we should allow the provincial associations to come together and work together. This particular letter has created the impression that the provincial authorities are trying to divide the association, trying to take each town on its own. It emerged at one stage in a press report that Durban’s southern local affairs committee was prepared to go it alone with extended powers, as opposed to the ideal of a non-racial local authority. However, subsequently at a Natal Association meeting this southern Durban local affairs committee said that they were not prepared to extend these delegated powers. Therefore I believe that negotiations and discussions should be on that basis.

We in Natal have the Natal Municipal Association protecting mainly White interests; the Natal Association of Local Affairs Committees representing Indian and Coloured interests’ and Ucan—the Urban Council Association of Natal—and KwaLoga, representing Black interests. The ideal would be for all of those who are sincerely and genuinely interested in the upliftment of our societies and our communities, to be involved in one Natal provincial body.

I appeal to all the bodies outside to come together. They are not statutory bodies, but non-statutory bodies and they represent local Government interest and if that is the case they should be united in one front. There have been preliminary discussions, but the ideal has not been reached. We need that ideal situation to bring about better understanding between people in this particular region and to have regional stability here in Natal.

I want to deal very quickly with RSCs. Here again we have a situation where the Administrator and the Executive are going to be charged with the ultimate responsibility. I believe that there has to be a greater understanding between the KwaZulu Government and the province before this particular concept is introduced here in Natal. The concept in itself might be acceptable, but the manner in which it is structured and in which it has been pushed down has not been acceptable to the KwaZulu Government.

I believe that we cannot ignore the KwaZulu Government. I am not holding the provincial executive responsible, but I believe that they have a joint executive authority and they have certain communications. This must be used to advantage to bring about a greater understanding between the central and the KwaZulu governments.

I now want to say that in so far as hospital services are concerned it is said that the hospital boards which are appointed by the provincial executive—they are appointed boards—play a very significant role. However, I do not know what criteria is used by the provincial executive when these executive boards are appointed. I have raised the matter privately with the hon MECs and I have received no satisfactory answer. However, I am aware that in an area like Stanger where 90% of the patients are Black it would appear that the appointments of the board are made very much on party political lines. People who have given sterling service to the community in the past have been removed from that particular board. I should like to mention the name of Mr R A Moodley who is still the Chairman of the Child Welfare Society. He was on the board before and why he was removed I just do not know. I cannot understand that. The people who were used to replace him belong to a certain political party and it is very clear… [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, the hon member who has just spoken will excuse me if I do not follow up his argument. Members of the CP will in due course deal with some of the matters that have been raised by him.

*Mr Chairman, in regard to the speech by the hon member for Umlazi, I want to say at the outset that he was of course not telling the whole truth here when he said that the three Houses decided unanimously that the debate should take place in this form. It was, in fact, a unanimous decision, although it took the hon House of Representatives two years to reach that unanimity, and this decision was strenuously opposed in the House of Assembly by the CP. In that respect, therefore, there was not unanimity in the House of Assembly. I say, therefore, it was not the whole truth.

There has been talk of Houses. At the commencement of these proceedings, the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly is taking this first opportunity to express its profound displeasure at the unedifying way in which the governing party is using the new Standing Rules and Orders to transfer its pernicious policy of power-sharing to the provinces.

In the first place, the CP maintains that this exercise is an extension of the integration process to which the Government is committed, and in terms of which other peoples jointly govern Whites. We Afrikaners and those fellow-Whites who associate themselves with Afrikaner aspirations, we who once undertook a Great Trek and fought a war to the death because we refused to be governed jointly by other peoples, once again place on record our deep-seated repugnance at being jointly governed by other peoples and other ethnic groups.

†We reject with contempt the argument that these exercises in which we are engaged in Cape Town, Bloemfontein, Pietermaritzburg and Pretoria today represent an extension of democracy. All four of the provinces are being governed by an Administrator with MECs from different population groups, appointed by the State President and beholden to him through the medium of the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning. Democratically elected provincial councils are being abolished. This is no extension of democracy. It is a curtailment and a limitation thereof. We are participating here today in a weird and macabre death dance around the embers of the dying fires of democracy. In the process the voters of this beautiful province are being exposed to an objectionable political confidence trick.

*Thirdly, Cape Town is the legislative capital of the RSA. The benches in the three Houses of Parliament in Cape Town are gathering dust during these two days. About three-quarters of the members of Parliament, plus a large number of officials, including Hansard reporters and clerks, have now had to travel to Pretoria, Bloemfontein and Pietermaritzburg. Accommodation must be provided for them. The same applies to security officials and the Press. Adequate security measures have had to be taken at the four venues.

And we are so poor.

Yes, exactly, Sir, we are very poor. Perhaps you do not realise that. You do not know that the salaries of members of Parliament and public servants have not been increased this year, or are you asleep? Are you asleep, Sir? All this is costing an additional R100 000, added to the normal appropriation budgeted for the costs of the normal parliamentary session held in Cape Town. This is taking place while the facilities of Parliament, with its officials, are available at no extra cost. The parliamentary programme has come to a standstill while members of Parliament assemble in the provincial capitals.

Fourthly, opposition parties have been reduced to irrelevancy without opposition Whips being consulted in the traditional way. They were simply called together and told how speeches and times had been allocated, and we have now been confronted with the following totally inadequate situation. In the first place, the total debating time for Natal is 720 minutes. Of this one-quarter, ie 180 minutes, has been allocated to the Administrator and MEC’s. The NP, which together with the Administrator and the MEC’s propagates the Government viewpoint, has been allocated 200 minutes. To the House of Representatives, present in its capacity as joint governor, 80 minutes has been allocated and to the House of Delegates, also acting here in its capacity as joint governor, 150 minutes has been allocated, and to the CP 40 minutes. Thirty minutes have been allocated to the PFP and 10 to the independents. So even if we were to accept that there would be some opposing voices raised in the ranks of the House of Representatives and the House of Delegates, the provincial government is getting 52,8% of the allocated time, and the total opposition in the House of Assembly only 11,1%.

In the Transvaal the total debating time is 660 minutes: A quarter to the Administrator and MEC’s, 160 minutes; 190 minutes to the NP, therefore 355 minutes to the governing party; 140 minutes to the House of Representatives; 70 minutes to the House of Delegates; 40 minutes to the CP; 30 minutes to the PFP; 10 minutes to the NDM and 10 minutes to the independents. The Government’s time is therefore 53,8%, with 13,6% for the House of Assembly opposition.

In the Orange Free State the total debating time is 480 minutes. A quarter is allocated to the Administrator and MEC’s. The NP has been allocated 150 minutes—a total of 270 minutes; 100 minutes to the House of Representatives; 40 minutes to the House of Delegates; 30 minutes to the CP and 20 minutes to the PFP. Government time therefore accounts for 56,25%, while that of the opposition in the House of Assembly accounts for 10,40%.

In the Cape the total debating time is 690 minutes. A quarter goes to the Administrator and MEC’s, viz 170 minutes. The NP is being given 200 minutes, a total therefore of 370 minutes. The House of Representatives has been given 145 minutes; the CP 40 minutes and the independents 10 minutes. In this case Government time accounts for 53,6% while the opposition in the House of Assembly gets 11,6%.

This extremely unfair and calculated discrimination against the CP is also very clearly illustrated by the following example. In the Orange Free State, the CP which has 60 000 voters which supported its policy on 6 May 1987, has been given 30 minutes’ debating time. [Interjections.] In the same debate the Coloureds, with 6 000 votes, get 100 minutes’ debating time. The Indians who, apart from a few inhabitants, had no votes in the Free State, and who can have no interest in the Free State budget, nevertheless get 40 minutes more debating time than the CP.

Shame!

Certain adjustments have been made to the debating time in the Cape and Natal to give the Indians more time in Natal and the Coloureds more time in the Cape, in accordance with their numbers. In the Transvaal, where the CP obtained 22 seats and 383 000 votes— 100 000 more votes than the entire Coloured vote of 270 000 for the whole of the Republic—no adjustment has been made for the CP. In the Transvaal the CP, with its 383 000 votes, gets 40 minutes of debating time, while the Coloureds, with 35 000 votes, get 140 minutes of debating time.

Apart from the principle of power-sharing which is at issue here, this unfairness amounts to nothing less than a deliberate attempt to deprive the CP voters of their democratic rights in these debates in favour of the Coloureds and Indians.

Order! I am sorry to interrupt the hon member, but his time has expired.

Mr Chairman, I rise merely to afford the hon member an opportunity to complete his speech.

I thank the hon member for Umfolozi.

The 574 502 CP voters in the RSA are getting a total of 150 minutes of debating time, while the 272 854 Coloured voters are getting 465 minutes and the 83 613 Indians are getting 335 minutes. Such an unfair system calls for rejection and opposition in the strongest possible terms. This attempt to make the CP, as the Official Opposition, irrelevant is further underscored by the clearly spelt-out viewpoint of the LP, which claims, inter alia, to be the Official Opposition, and that they want this established as a convention, and this while they are joint-governors and that hon member is serving in Mr P W Botha’s Cabinet.

The CP views the abovementioned arguments and statements of fact in such a serious light that it will now demonstrate its opposition to this inconsiderate distortion of the system by withdrawing from today’s proceedings. We shall return to the debating chamber tomorrow.

Mr Chairman, having listened to the tirade by the hon member for Brakpan, one gets the distinct feeling that it is a matter of sour grapes. In addition, as regards his suggestion of proportional representation, does he advocate taking over the PFP’s policy of proportional representation instead of representation by the number of seats that are held in the House?

It is a very familiar feeling for me to be here today; it is almost like being at home. On behalf of my party I wish to express our sincere thanks to the hon the Administrator, the members of the Executive Committee and the entire staff of the NPA for their outstanding effort in restoring flood damages as quickly as they did. I realise that much work is still to be finalised, but tremendous team-work accomplished more than anyone could expect in the short period of time, often at great personal sacrifice. We salute the hon the Administrator and his entire team, and we congratulate them on their efficiency and tender to them our grateful thanks.

There has been much adverse comment in the Press by the opposition parties, namely the CP and the PFP, in respect of time allocations and the cost of these Extended Public Standing Committees. I should like to begin by dealing with the allocations. I see that the CP have left and I should like to say: “Good riddance!”

Hear, hear!

At the beginning of the year, when the CP were asked what time they required for the Provincial Budget debates, their requests were as follows: Cape, 15 minutes; Natal, 15 minutes; Free State, 15 minutes; Transvaal, 20 minutes; giving a total of 65 minutes. They were granted this time. In the debates presently taking place, the CP’s time allocation is as follows: They have been given 40 minutes in the Cape; 40 minutes in Natal; 30 minutes in the Orange Free State; and 40 minutes in the Transvaal. In fact, therefore, their time allocation has been increased by 85 minutes.

You should give us the balance.

What is really hurting them is that the House of Representatives and the House of Delegates have more time than they; that is the rub! However, with respect, it is about time they realise that they are not the only opposition in Parliament, and furthermore, that provincial budgets are the responsibility of Parliament and not only the House of Assembly.

When we look at the position of the PFP, we note that at the beginning of the year they asked for 15 minutes for the Cape; 15 minutes for Natal; no time in the Free State—none at all; and in the Transvaal, they asked for 15 minutes and were given a total of 45 minutes. The PFP today have been given an additional 65 minutes for debate.

I now wish to quote from a Durban daily newspaper. The quotation reads as follows:

I think I have dealt with that, and I think that this House is now familiar with the true facts.

On top of this, opposition parties feel that for Parliament to divide up and travel to the different capitals will be inordinately expensive, with the taxpayer having to pay for air tickets, hotels and hired cars. I should now like to deal with that section.

*Both opposition parties insisted that Parliament should pay for members’ air tickets, hotel costs and travelling expenses. They insisted on this at the second meeting, as well as with the hon Leader of the House at our last meeting. Mr Dalling of the PFP in particular insisted on this. I think it is an absolute farce that it is they who are alleging that the taxpayer’s money is being wasted, after they asked for this.

†Of course, they very conveniently overlook the costs involved in the Administrator, the members of the Executive Committee and their officials going down to Cape Town and staying there for three weeks while the provincial budgets are debated in the three different Houses, while they were onlookers and could not take part in the debate.

History is being made today. Not only are we having a joint debate by all three Houses, but the Administrator and Executive Committee are participating in the debate, which is the correct and proper thing to happen as they are the executive of Natal and they are accountable.

When I speak of joint or mixed debates, I fully understand why the CP made a puerile twelfth-hour attempt in the House of Assembly last Friday to forestall these meetings taking place. They have a bucolic approach to modern-day politics in South Africa today. Their thinking is fossilised when it comes to joint or mixed debating. When one considers the policy they peddle, one can understand their way of thinking. They are zealots for the cause of the pure Afrikaner in a “Wit tuisland”, at the expense of anyone or any group if need be. They object most strenuously to mixed debates—why, Sir? I think they suffer from a disorder arising from a conflict between the desire to be noticed and the fear of being humiliated, characterised by aggressiveness.

The CP are lavish in their prevarication of the true facts, both in debates and in the Press. They are, I believe, Sir, irrelevant in the macro-political situation because their Machiavellian brand of politics has no place in the reform process of today. Their policy in my opinion is based on the fear of the non-White and is fettered with such emotion that instead of promoting racial harmony, they are working directly against it and creating the opposite.

Much adverse comment has been made in the Press by the opposition parties, namely the CP and the PFP, but I believe one has to look at the situation as it really is. I do not believe that we should take much notice of the CP. The CP stood in 10 out of the 20 seats in the last election and they had their nose bloodied in each one. In total they could only obtain 8,81% of the total votes cast. It is therefore clear that Natal spurned their approach and their brand of political solutions for South Africa. Why is this so? It is because the CP’s policies are perfidious and are incapable of execution, except I believe, through the barrel of a gun—similar to the ANC or, for that matter, the AWB.

Mr Chairman, when one looks at the Estimate of Revenue and Expenditure for the province of Natal for the current financial year, one could almost agree that all is well in Natal—this does of course depend on who one is. Even the joint committee’s first report on the Budget complains only about the decrease in the expenditure under Vote No 6 “Community Services” where there is a shortfall of R378 000.

The deficit of R23,3 million shown in Vote No 7 “Improvement of Conditions of Service” is not a loss to the province in real terms. It refers to the transfer of responsibilities which arose as a consequence of the bureaucratic fragmentation.

In reality, according to the plea of the first report, the provincial executive is requested to find R378 000 from its budget of R1,3 billion for this year to maintain and to continue with the quality of services desired by the province. A definite assurance, however, has been given by the province in its report that it would manage with ease to raise this amount because the figure is “so small”—these are the words used in the report.

I now want to come to my party’s main concern, namely the credibility of this second tier of government. The provincial executive councils, being nominated bodies, have no direct accountability to the electorate. They are bodies without a mandate from the people over whom they exercise power. By virtue of their reference, they are merely extensions of the executive power of the first-tier.

The power exercised by the province of Natal is derived from the national control authority and all its actions are controlled by it. That basically and briefly defines the devolution rather than the division of power which would have been more in keeping with the aspirations of the taxpayers of this province.

It is common knowledge that in the first-tier of government, consensus is confined to the majority parties in each House, be it in the standing committees or in the Chambers themselves. The criteria in any decision-making are therefore based on numbers. The viewpoint of the opposition parties can therefore hardly make an impact and in many cases it is precluded.

The construction of the provincial executive committee is a precise illustration of this point. The White component of the executive committee is nominated by the White own affairs administration and the Administrator is nominated by the hon the State President. The Coloured and Indian members are nominated by their respective Ministers’ Councils. Should this not have been the prerogative of the taxpayer in Natal?

Furthermore, opposition parties are completely left out in the provincial executive committee. Only the ruling élite of the tricameral system is in charge. Could this be labelled authoritarianism? [Interjections.]

The Provincial Executive of Natal would do well to take note of their own specific White authoritarian style of administration. All 21 of the 21 top directorate positions, are firmly held by Whites. The concept of own affairs is totally dogmatic with regard to representation on statutory bodies. An Indian person, for instance, cannot be represented by a Coloured, White or African person in the provincial executive. MEC’s are therefore called upon to administer racial segregation. The administration of the so-called “nonWhite MEC’s” of the respective communities can only be termed oppressive. It is blatant apartheid and apartheid can do nothing but that.

As far as I am concerned, the concept of own affairs represents the ultimate racial humiliation to we Black people who still consider this country to be our only home. We do not enjoy a common humanity with Whites and thus we cannot consider ourselves part of the South African nation. [Interjections.] As a consequence, we have no rightful claim upon the State.

The irony of the situation, however, is that on the one hand I may be a political alien in this country but on the other hand I am a member of Parliament, sagacious in my thirst for reasonable legislation for the country at large. At New Germany, for instance, I was chased away from the library a few months ago because it was for the exclusive use by White people. Yet, as a member of this Committee, I am expected today to support the provincial budget from which that same library will eventually benefit.

The cornerstones of apartheid—these are the Group Areas Act, the Population Registration Act, the Reservation of Separate Amenities Act etc—are still firmly in place after nearly four years of the tricameral system and indeed after 40 years of NP rule. While the Black people are made to feel as though they are pariahs in their own country, South African, mostly Whites, are regarded as pariahs by the international community with regard to sports tours, sports persons, sanctions etc. Yet the Government will not move away from its apartheid laws.

Although I am fully aware that the provincial executive committees have no power to alter racial laws—specifically by extending civil rights to all the people within their jurisdiction—they can, however, make the right noises to the right people in order for them to make the right moves. The Natal Provincial Executive Committee, however, is looking the wrong way and thus deliberately dumping us all into conflict and mayhem. [Interjections.] I therefore cannot support the Second Reading of this Appropriation Bill.

Mr Chairman, the PFP believes it is important that a regional legislative body exists for the province of Natal and we believe that all of us are here today to serve the welfare of Natal. The standing committee of the province is the designated body to look at the budget of the province of Natal.

In addition, there is the Joint Executive Authority which meets together with the Cabinet of KwaZulu to consider the affairs of this province, and it is the affairs of this province to which I wish to address myself today.

During the past year we have had considerable problems in the province. We have had natural disasters—the floods—and man-made disasters in the form of the killings that have been going on, not only in the greater Edendale area but in other parts of this province as well. It is those kinds of disasters that I believe a regional legislative body should be addressing and taking decisions on. In this regard I should like to point out that it is at the legislative level in the region that we should be discussing the killings of the members of the Legislative Assembly of KwaZulu that have occurred in Natal. We should be talking about the killings that have occurred between political groups and we should be talking about the killings of neutral people who have found themselves caught between factions. [Interjections.]

Mr Chairman, we believe that the standing committee and the extended committee we are serving on today do not provide the answer. This has been labelled by the chairman of the standing committee himself in a Press statement as an “interim situation”, and I want to touch on that a little later.

We in the PFP believe that there is a great deal of unhappiness, not only in our party but in other parties as well, concerning the secrecy and the difficulty of handling ordinances in respect of which the standing committee of Parliament can put forward no amendments unless they are acceptable to the Administrator and to the Executive Committee. We must point out, as the hon member for Umlazi has done, that the standing committee of Parliament has met and has discussed this Budget in some detail, and has put a large number of questions to the Administrator and the Executive Committee, in reply to which we have received a considerable amount of information, for which I thank them. These questions relate to matters such as hospital fees and it is interesting to note that a full discussion on the question of hospital fees took place some three weeks before the debacle which actually occurred on 1 April when those hospital fees went up. Therefore, it did not seem to help terribly much. However, there was no public debate, which is what we believe should happen. We had a discussion on group areas. We had a discussion on the expenditure on community services in respect of Black affairs.

However, I now wish to address the matter of the Administrator and the MECs, and their role. They are appointees. The hon member for Durban Suburbs has touched on that and I do not intend to expand on it. At least two of them are prominently labelled and are happy to have their names associated with the governing party of South Africa in offices within that party. That is their right, but they are political appointees and they are not elected. That point must be made very clear. [Interjections.]

It is very important that we also consider what the hon the Administrator said when he started off today. He talked about a representative body but I think we must give due consideration to the fact that we are not fully representative. However, I am not criticising the hon the Administrator on that score because it is the very context in which this Committee works. However, we have a budget of R200 million to be spent in the so-called White areas of Natal, or the common areas of Natal, on Black people who are not represented here, and it is very important that that be brought about.

I should like to turn briefly to those criticisms we have heard in the Committee today which have emanated from the Progressive Federal Party. We will not be doing any boycotting. [Interjections.] We will be engaging that party on the opposite side of the Committee in regard to exactly the kind of things they have been trying to do to this country. [Interjections.]

This Committee is not going to vote. There is no voting on this. Let us take an issue such as the group areas. The vast majority of the hon members in this Committee today are opposed to group areas. How many are opposed to group areas? [Interjections.] By my count, of the 59 people who serve on this Committee, 40 belong to parties that are opposed to group areas and 19 hon members sitting on that side of the Committee support group areas. [Interjections.] That is why we cannot vote; because they are in the minority. [Interjections.] There is no proposal on behalf of the NP to move from this interim position. [Interjections.]

We have time allocations that are nonsensical. [Interjections.] The hon member for South Coast raised the question of the time allocation under the Vote of the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning. What he failed to mention to this Extended Committee was that the times for those provincial votes fall within the Vote timings of that hon Minister and that if we as a party choose to use the time allocated under the hon the Minister’s Vote to in fact discuss provincial affairs, that time is also included. He knows that, and so he is confusing the entire situation. [Interjections.]

Let us have look at the situation. The NP has, I believe, approximately 190 minutes. It holds 14 seats in Parliament. The House of Delegates has 150 minutes. It holds 34 parliamentary seats. [Interjections.] What is the time allocation? The NP has 38% of the time allocated to hon members in this Committee whilst the House of Delegates has 29%. It is entirely inequitable and the NP is aware of that.

How many seats do you have in Natal?

The situation I believe we should be addressing here today is, in fact: Where do we go from here? Where do we move if we all agree that this Committee is unacceptable and, in the words of the hon member for Umlazi, is an interim situation? [Interjections.] The Nationalists agree that it is not acceptable. Where do we go from here?

We have heard that it is possible that the hon members of the tricameral Parliament sitting here could sit together with the members of the KwaZulu Legislative Assembly in order to debate and discuss the affairs of the region as a whole. However, Mr Chairman, if a decision came about in respect of which voting was necessary, each of those components would vote separately. [Interjections.] I want to challenge the Nats to deny that they are, in fact, discussing that as an interim regional situation in this province. If that is the situation, how far away are they from the Indaba proposals? [Interjections.] I actually believe that we are very close to the Indaba proposals, and those are the things that should be on the agenda for this regional legislative body to discuss. [Interjections.]

Negotiation is important. I regret that the tone of the hon member for Umlazi when he commenced this debate served to transfer the confrontational styles each of us has in their respective Houses to this Committee. [Interjections.] I greatly regret it because I believe it is important that as a regional legislative body we come together for the benefit of the region as a whole and, of necessity, to confront those very problems which I addressed right at the beginning of my speech. [Interjections.]

Mr Chairman, hon members of my party will be looking at hospitals and at their development and fee structures. We shall be looking at the Group Areas Act and particularly at the distribution of the refusals of permits.

Last year 85 permit applications were refused, of which 44% were for people of colour to lease, occupy or acquire White residential properties. As a single category, this occupied by far a dominant position. Twenty such permits were issued. Two permits were issued to Black people, 14 to so-called Coloured people and four to Indians, to occupy leased property in White residential areas. What I am saying, then, is that a number were refused and a number were granted. What we should like to be discussed today, is the basis on which those decisions were made, on the grounds of the Act allowing the Executive Committee, or as it is now could, the Administrative and Executive Committee, to make certain decisions assessing whether or not it is to the benefit of the community. We need to get to the nitty-gritty. Hon colleagues who have spoken previously have said: “Grant all permits”. We would support that as an interim measure, but in those cases where permits are being refused we should like to know why they are being refused and on whose authority they are being refused. In that connection we should like to understand clearly whether, in making those decisions, the delegate of the administration is, in fact, making them with the full support of every member of that Executive Committee. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, there is no doubt about the fact that this is an historic day for South Africa and especially for Natal. As the hon the Administrator of Natal has indicated, it is also the 150th anniversary of the city of Pietermaritzburg.

Of course, Pietermaritzburg is written into the history books of India, because it was here on that cold, chilly night that Mahatma Gandhi thought of the idea of satyagraha, which changed the course of history of the Asian subcontinent. I do not want to refer to other affairs of Pietermaritzburg. I believe that Pietermaritzburg was also responsible for giving South Africa its first Jackpot and Place Accumulators.

If anybody has to complain about the time allocation for this debate, it is the members of the House of Delegates. We believe in Natal we have the largest number of MPs in Parliament and we should be given the longest time allocation for this debate, because we believe to a certain extent that this province is the last bastion of the British Empire, the last outpost, etc. Views have been expressed by the PFP in respect of time allocation, but coming to our local situation in the House of Delegates, I notice that the two PFP-members in the House of Delegates have an allocation of 20 minutes and my party, which has 19 members, and should therefore have been allocated 185 minutes, has only 50 minutes. Nevertheless, the House of Delegates here is one. We are combined and I do not think there is division on principles and policies as to how we want to see Natal governed in the future.

I want to take this opportunity of expressing our appreciation to the hon the Administrator of Natal, his Executive Committee and the NPA for the excellent work they have done under very difficult and trying circumstances. When the old provincial council was disbanded and the newlystructured provincial executive committee introduced, in spite of the fact that certain important functions were taken away from the provinces and allocated to own affairs administrations, additional responsibilities were given to the provinces. It is my considered view that those additional responsibilities which were transferred to the provincial executive committee and the provincial administration, compared to the responsibilities they had before the dissolution of the provincial council, constitute a heavier responsibility.

We enjoy an excellent relationship with the provincial executive committee and our Administration in the House of Delegates and with the administration in respect of matters relating to the Indian community and also in respect of matters which may be transferred to our Administration which are presently dealt with by the provincial administration. I also want to place on record our appreciation to the province for the excellent manner in which they handled our recent flood disaster.

Also during this period we saw historic changes. They may not be changes which will satisfy our political ideal, but I believe one of the important developments was the establishment of the Natal-KwaZulu executive authority. The Natal-KwaZulu executive authority may be one of the structures where there is co-operation and understanding between the government of KwaZulu and the NPA, but of course, away from the glare of publicity, there are various administrative structures where there is understanding, co-operation, co-ordination and harmony between the NPA and the administration and government of KwaZulu. We express the wish that one day this Natal-KwaZulu joint executive authority will evolve into a type of proper regional authority for Natal.

Here I want to quote from a speech made by the hon the State President a few years ago at the Durban City Hall, which was referred to by the media as the famous Rubicon speech. Let us very carefully examine what the hon the State President stated that night. Firstly, he indicated for the first time that national states that did not want to accept independence could be allowed to remain part and parcel of South Africa. Secondly, he referred to the commonness of South Africa, one boundary, one South Africa and one nation. Thirdly, he made suggestions in respect of the finding of solutions on a regional basis.

Mr Chairman, just before the lunch break I was dealing with certain significant points made in the speech by the hon the State President at the Durban City Hall a few years ago. On one of the occasions of the official opening of Parliament, the hon the State President officially declared the Government’s policy towards apartheid when he said the old colonial system of apartheid was outdated.

Arising out of this significant statement, it is the responsibility of everyone—Central Government, provincial authorities and those at local authority level—to ensure that apartheid in practice and legislation is completely removed.

In 1983 in Bloemfontein the hon the State President, when he was still Prime Minister, made certain suggestions in respect of interim measures relating to local government. We are on the verge of embarking on two important events in Natal, in particular, but also in other parts of South Africa. One deals with the question of the establishment of a regional services council, and the other is that, for the first time in the history of South Africa, all the race groups will take part in local government elections on the same day and subject to the same rules.

Although these elections are going to be separate, they are not going to be equal. I want to state the standpoint of the House of Delegates on local government very, very clearly. The present direction of separate, ethnic, local autonomous areas is unacceptable. We are not opposed to the creation of local authorities, provided they are geographical and not based on ethnic or racial considerations, and provided the creation of local authorities on a geographical basis are acceptable to the people who are residing within those geographical boundaries.

Natal saw the first creation of the LAC approximately 20 years ago. Two decades later we are still at the starting point. The man in the street, the broad masses of South Africa, are not going to pass judgement on what is happening in Pietermaritzburg today. They are going to pass judgement on the translation of this into practical realities and benefits which would accrue to them from deliberations and decisions we are going to take today. The attitude and decisions of local authorities, and the direction that local authorities are going to take, are therefore of tremendous significance to all of us.

I am disturbed that certain municipalities—not all of them—are more concerned about White areas in their preparations for the October 26 elections. We are concerned about what is going to happen in Tongaat where we have a multiracial local authority. The White sector may go for an election, but it is uncertain whether the Indian sector will also go for an election. Local authorities should not hide behind State policies, because in certain areas no central Government legislation or central Government policy exists.

What we are disturbed about, in addition to what the hon member for Stanger has stated, is the question of equal distribution of funds in all areas, irrespective of race, colour or creed. Local authorities have a habit of keeping separate accounts in terms of a local affairs committee regulation, tailoring expenditure in the so-called Indian, Coloured and Black areas, according to the contribution of those areas. I believe this should not be done. This practice should cease immediately.

If one takes the Durban City Council’s allocation for assistance to sporting bodies as an example, one will find a very large percentage of that assistance goes to the White community, while all sectors of that particular municipality contribute directly or indirectly to the coffers. I think it is important that the hon the State President’s suggestion which he made in 1983 in respect of interim solutions, be implemented, so that management committees and LAC can have joint deliberations. I cannot see any reason whatsoever why a municipality like Durban should not give the various LACs representation in the management committee. The central Government, at the same time, was prepared to allow people of colour in the highest structure of this country, namely the Cabinet.

Apartheid must be eliminated. I am particularly concerned about municipal budgets. There is an important principle enshrined in the regional services council’s legislation, and this principle is applied in areas where regional services councils are established in other parts of South Africa, namely that one must not distribute funds in the direction where the funds come from. Funds must be distributed where the greatest need exists. That is the biggest problem affecting the people at the grassroots level when they see that certain sections of the community are given basic amenities and facilities, while they are denied the right to have these basis amenities and facilities.

Although the regional services councils have been criticised, I accept that there is some justification in these criticisms aimed at the method of collection of revenue and the manner in which the regional services councils are structured. However, one cannot deny the fact that it is an improvement for two reasons. Firstly, one will be able to allocate money to areas that are not able to afford development themselves. Secondly, there is multi-racialism in the structure of the regional services councils. Although the type of representation will be based on a measure of separateness, that nevertheless is progress, in my considered opinion.

I had an example in Brits where the Indian community could not afford to provide certain facilities. However, as soon as the regional services council was established, they were allocated certain funds and they were given an outright grant by the regional services council. If a regional services council is established without Kwamashu, without Umhlahli, one would not be able to explain to these people on a regional basis why they are not getting the benefit of the revenue that is going to be generated within a particular region. I therefore want to make an appeal. A very good sentiment was expressed by the hon member for Stanger that we cannot separate KwaZulu from the other parts of Natal in the programme to establish the regional services council. I think there has been a lot of positive development in respect of co-ordination and understanding with the government of KwaZulu, and if we can establish the regional services councils and attend to the criticism, deficiencies and discrepancies in this legislation, we will go a long way in providing the basic amenities and facilities in the local authority areas. If they are left with separateness, they will not be able to provide.

I now come to certain local authorities which have accepted autonomy in certain Indian areas, like Isipingo. One cannot allow a crazy situation to continue where one has a local authority that is not contiguous. I do not accept that decision about Prospecton. If we are true to the utterances and the policy that local authorities must be determined or established on a regional basis, I think it is avarice gone mad. If one wants to provide local authority structures for other communities, one cannot deny them the right to have areas that will generate the necessary revenue for their viability. I honestly believe this question of Prospecton must be re-examined.

A lot has been said about facilities. I want to deal with the beach issue. We have local authorities which adopt certain attitudes. Some are positive, some are negative. I do not want to say that along the Eastern Seaboard we have a so-called Indian Ocean. The House of Delegates does not want to claim any jurisdiction over that. I would not like to give the Administrator and the Executive Committee the delegated authority to grant permits to non-Indians on behalf of the House of Delegates!

Nevertheless, we are in an age and in a transition period where changes are taking place. We all agree that these changes must take place in an orderly fashion, but one cannot deny people the right to use what nature has provided. I want to recommend my personal belief that if certain local authorities are adopting negative attitudes, the responsibility of the control over beaches must be shifted from these local authorities to either the provincial structure or any other structure in this country.

After the official declaration made by the hon the State President we cannot allow apartheid to be entrenched or continue. In spite of the fact that the tricameral Parliament is structured along apartheid lines it is progress, because we believe that sufficient changes were made from the rigid attitude of Whites.

This morning the Conservative Party criticised the dissolution of the former Provincial Council. They said it used to be democratically elected. If one elects people from one race group in this country and that one race group is then represented in the Provincial Council, taking decisions that affect the lives of other race groups, I cannot see how those provincial councils could have been democratically elected.

With our presence here this morning as members of the Coloured, Indian and White communities we have made it very clear that we want all the race groups in this country to take part in decision making at the highest level.

I have indicated that ever since the newly structured provincial government was establishment, its responsibilities have increased. They are bigger than those this structure had before. In Parliament we have dealt with many reform measures and changes. One of the greatest changes that was brought about in this tricameral Parliament was the repeal of the legislation relating to pass-laws and the Government’s White Paper on Urbanisation, as a result of which there is an influx of people of colour to the cities. The province has taken the responsibility for Black housing and it plays an important role in respect of the identification of land—especially for the housing of the various race groups.

While we at central Government level in Cape Town are arguing about the repeal of the group areas legislation, the Group Areas Act does not discriminate. It does not state that one race group or one group must have an advantage over another in respect of the fair allocation of land. I believe that a very heavy responsibility now rests with our Provincial Executive Committee and the Provincial Administration to ensure that there is timely identification of land, especially for Black people—who are not represented in the structures where decisions are taken—so that we can avoid creating the fertile ground for revolution in our major areas.

I have personally stated in Parliament on numerous occasions that I do not believe that own affairs is apartheid. We have had a history in this country of the stratification of society and a history of the First and the Third World situation. We also have the history where Whites took decisions for us and did not give us the type of services that we needed. An example thereof is Phoenix, which is developing as the largest single Asian area outside the Asian subcontinent, without the necessary hospital facilities. Provincial government identified it as a high priority about eight or nine years ago.

However, I believe in a different concept. We should use these structures as an interim measure to ensure that we get the type of services which were denied to us when we were not represented in the structures where decisions are taken. I am glad that the hon the Minister of National Health and Population Development, with the support of the Cabinet, determined a national health plan where, although in terms of the Constitution hospitals are declared as own affairs, they will only be on the books as such for academic or theoretical purposes. In reality they will remain with the provinces.

In spite of the fact that the Administration of the House of Assembly may think otherwise, I express the wish that we do not disturb the status quo as regards what the province is doing in the administration of local government affairs. If that should be transferred it will create problems where, for instance, a White municipality has jurisdiction over areas of other race groups which will in fact be responsible directly to the Administration: House of Assembly.

Therefore, in respect of hospitals and in respect of this Budget, we must be strictly guided by one important principle, that if allocation of priorities is to take place, these priorities should be allocated where the greatest needs exist. We need that hospital in Phoenix. We are negotiating with the Administration. We want to ensure that King Edward VIII Hospital and R K Khan Hospital receive the type of attention they deserve.

Once again I would like to thank the hon the Administrator and the Executive Committee for the co-operation and understanding our administration and our community have been receiving.

Mr Chairman, I deem it a great privilege, indeed, to speak on this very historic occasion today. I had intended not to allow myself to be lured away from my prepared speech, but I must say that after the contributions by the hon members for Pinetown and Brakpan I find this very difficult. As far as the PFP is concerned it is clear that they have nothing to complain about and are indeed getting more than they deserve. If they do want to complain about this, I would suggest that they complain to the electorate. Moreover, they should complain to those two members of their party who have in fact deserted them. No less than 40% of the representation of the PFP in Parliament has deserted them in less than a year. Clearly that cannot be our fault.

* As far as the CP is concerned, they complained about a certain amount, but they did not say what the alternative was. They did not tell us what it would cost to establish a Coloured, Indian or “Boerestaat”. It will not cost thousands of rands, but billions. Not less than R400 billion. The objection by the CP to this Vote on the affairs of Natal being discussed in Natal, means only one thing. It proves to us that these people feel nothing for the people of Natal.

†As the member representing the Pietermaritzburg North constituency, where the administration of Natal is based and where this historic building is also situated, I cannot but, at the outset, thank the hon the Administrator and the hon MECs, the Provincial Secretary and all the officials of the NPA for the excellent service they are rendering for the benefit of our province. I would also like to thank the said officials for the very prompt and effective attention that they have given, over many years, not only to my representations but also to those from other hon members on this side.

This does not mean that I am always happy with the results I get or the replies I receive, but I can always rest assured that the best attention has been given to them. I would like to submit that we in Natal can indeed be very grateful for the very efficient administration we have.

I would like to refer to the joint executive authority which has been established for Natal and KwaZulu in the last year. I have no doubt that as far as constitutional development for Natal and KwaZulu is concerned, this has been the most important development in the last year and will continue to be so for many years to come. I would also like to thank the hon the Administrator and the hon MECs, as well as the senior officials, for the crucial role they played in the establishment of this authority.

The JEA fulfils a very long-felt need. The fact is that Natal and KwaZulu form an economic and geographic unit which requires the closest cooperation as far as executive action in many fields is concerned—I can just name a few such as roads, environmental affairs, health matters, animal diseases and general planning for development. There are many other examples.

These common concerns arise out of the fact that we are economically and geographically interdependent. However, apart from these considerations there have also been other special considerations and special developments over the last year which urge closer co-operation and decisiontaking. I should like to refer to the recent tremendous trend towards urbanisation in our province and the need to develop rural areas, the need to lessen the impact of both these aspects on our ecology and also the need to provide employment opportunities. These developments also demand the closest co-operation between the administrations governing Natal.

I would like to point out the conditions for the success of this authority as I see them. The first condition in my submission is already provided for and that is that there should indeed be cooperation between the authorities in this area. It should be co-operation between equals and not the domination of one authority by another.

However, the other requirement which is very important at this stage is that the JEA must be seen to be working and that it must be productive. It must be seen by the people to be to the benefit of the people of Natal and then not only in the short term ie through short-term projects—I am sure that we shall soon see successful short-term projects—but it must also be seen by way of long-term projects and lasting projects. It is in this regard that I want to make an appeal to the JEA through our MECs.

I want to refer to Natal’s biggest natural resource which is certainly one of the biggest in the country and that is the Tugela River. As far as volume is concerned it is second only to the Orange River and it is bigger than the Vaal River. In spite of this huge asset the water resources of this river have not been harnessed to the benefit of Natal. We know of the multimillion rand development to make the water in the upper reaches of this river available to the Witwatersrand. This export of water from Natal, from our province, has in the past come under fire from Natalians. Perhaps this is not justified, because we also reap the benefits of the gold production on the Reef. A contribution of water from our province is perhaps not unreasonable. However, I would submit that the time is now ripe for a major development of the Tugela River for the benefit of the people of Natal. This project should consist of dams, canals, agricultural projects linked to that and perhaps hydro-electric plants. I must say that I would be in favour of such plants rather than a nuclear power station on the North Coast, which will also place further pressure on our balance of payments. If one compares the population deriving direct benefit from the Orange River project to the population that would derive direct benefit from such a project in our province then this proposed project is completely vindicated.

I believe that the JEA should take the initiative to institute an investigation into the feasibility of such a project. Once that is established we should all place pressure on the central Government to fund that. There are many reports available in this regard. In the short term these projects would reduce unemployment in the area, but in the long term they would create a new development axis along the river in central KwaZulu. That would also relieve the pressure on the existing metropolitan areas. I hope the members of the Executive Committee who are all members of the JEA will be sympathetic to this cause.

Mr Chairman, it is indeed a pleasure for me to address the province of Natal in this beautiful setting. This is a more historic event than our entrance into Parliament in the tricameral system in 1984.

I just want to refer to a few points since I have only ten minutes. Long-winded politicians need more time than that, of course. I want to emphasise the need for the extension and expansion of regional government in opposition to central government. We all know what strong central government has done for this country and what it has done to this country. We also know that there are regional differences in this country. The people of Natal are essentially different to people in other regions. Why should Natal therefore not have its own parliament, as it had for a certain measure of time, and proceed to make its laws in a way it sees fit.

We believe that despite what the hon member for Brakpan said here earlier this morning about the expenses incurred in having stronger and bigger regional government, we set great store by it in spite of the costs that he referred to. I should like to remind him that before the present provincial government was instituted the previous provincial council did not cost so much money to operate for it to become prohibitive. We should like to see a return to this larger arrangement—of course, on a non-racial basis—a return to a strong provincial government or regional government rather than the strong centralised form of government that we have at the moment.

We need to bring government back to the man in the street. It should be brought as close to the man in the street as possible. Having government far away from the man in the street on a centralised basis is just not on. It does not work. I especially want to emphasise this point that we should like to see an extension of regional government. We believe a shift in emphasis from centralised government to regional government will allow for all the regional differences that exist in this country and also for the extensive common ground that can be found in a particular region.

The hon member for Durban Suburbs mentioned that consensus is only reached between majority parties.

Take him to task.

I would not like to take the hon member to task for this as my hon learned colleague would prefer me to do, but it is a fact that particularly at standing committee level the opinion of every single political entity in Parliament is taken into account. The hon member himself has made contributions on standing committees which have been accepted. It is therefore beyond my ken to understand what he means by saying that opposition groups, or small parties, are not considered. The same member complained that the Executive Committee is nominated on the one hand and on the other hand he contradicts himself by claiming that their little party should also have representation on this same provincial government. This means he does not like appointment, but he wants appointment. One does not really know what he means by that.

The hon member for Pinetown made the point that the budget has already been discussed behind closed doors. It has been extensively discussed, debated at length and many questions were asked. In fact, the hon member for Pinetown asked some very interesting questions and here I must give laurels to the Administrator and the Executive and particularly the officials for their detailed replies which they so promptly gave us soon after the meetings.

For this reason, since such a lot of discussion on the Budget has taken place already, I must agree with the hon member for Pinetown that it really is a pity that those discussions took place in camera. Had this not been the case it would have obviated the need for a duplication of debates on the same issues.

However, before my time expires I should like to refer to two things. The first is library services. I believe it is time the province withdrew all financial support from local authorities which still choose to function on a racially exclusive basis as far as libraries are concerned. What is wrong with having libraries open? If our children cannot sit together in a library, study books together and do research together in a library, what future is there for this country? In this day and age a local authority which prefers to remain exclusive must be made to pay for it. If they want exclusive libraries for themselves, then they must be made to pay for it.

This brings me to a very important aspect. I was present at the opening of Library Week in Durban, in my constituency. I cast my eyes around the bookshelves, and really this is unforgivable. The selection of books we have available to our people in the little township libraries, is pitiful. I am certain that if one were to compare the various libraries in as far as the selection of books and source material is concerned, we would find that the libraries in certain areas really fall short.

We question whether a local authority must be allowed to proceed with this discriminatory practice in selecting beforehand what children in certain areas must read. Of course, if local authorities are pressurised to open their libraries, the risk of the hon member for Durban Suburbs being shooed out of the library, will fall away.

The final point is the matter of the utilisation of beach amenities. This matter has become a thorny political issue in Natal. Natal has the ideal climate and natural facilities for tourism for the whole of the country, and for foreigners as well. It does not help if in this day and age a man like Mr Alice in Wonderland can be allowed to make the statements that he has been making since 1 January of this year. These statements do the province an immeasurable amount of harm, and something must be done about this. I am shocked and stunned by the fact that so little has been set aside in the Budget for beach facilities in this province. The relevant amounts, as compared with the other province, namely the Cape, really make me shudder a bit.

However, I have thought carefully about this. I wonder why local authorities like Margate—a growth point on the South Coast—and even local authorities like Port Shepstone, which is also on the South Coast and in my constituency, and to the north Umhlanga Rocks, do not apply for funds from the province. If one thinks carefully about this, it is easy to understand. It is because the local authorities I have just mentioned do not wish to open their facilities. Thus they hide behind a shortage of facilities on the beaches in order not to open them.

Again I believe that an investigation must be launched by the Administrator-in-Executive Committee, and if this kind of local authority does not want to co-operate, then I believe that the province must step in, take over the beach development and simply provide. In this way the argument that there are insufficient facilities available must fall away so that everybody can live in peace in this province.

I feel extremely strongly about this, because we can be sure that as far as this matter is concerned, every time the holiday season arrives it will surface time and time again. It does our province no good to have this kind of bickering over the utilisation of our natural resources.

Having made those few points—I will have another opportunity to address this House—I should like to conclude.

Mr Chairman, it has been said earlier this morning that those present represent the Natal component of Parliament. I was rather surprised to discover for the first time that Brakpan is a part of Natal! I was also surprised to note that the CP have four members of Parliament from Natal! So much for that kind of discussion.

When the hon member for Arena Park started speaking, I wondered whether he had in fact already become the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Delegates, but of course later it transpired that he still remains a member of the Cabinet, to judge from the pro-Nationalist sentiments expressed by him.

We started the debate this morning on a sombre note, recording with great sorrow the death of Mr Peter Jacobs. All of us who participated in the election of 1984 knew that we were taking risks. We knew that we were taking great physical risks. The hon member for Alra Park knew he was taking that risk. The hon the Deputy Minister of Population Development knew he was taking a risk and he carries today the physical injuries resulting from the risk he took in participating in the tricameral situation. He has the shrapnel of the bomb within his body at the present time. Why were these risks taken? They were taken in the pursuit of political reform by peaceful means—not to assist the NP to remain in power. Those people who betrayed those who took those risks, also betrayed humanity. Those people, by pursuing the policies of apartheid, are guilty of the killing of a member of Parliament. I want to make that statement quite categorically. Apartheid is what killed Peter Jacobs.

We noticed apartheid in the seating arrangements of this House. When I sat down this morning I was astonished to find that the seating was such that all the White members except two officials were seated on the right-hand side, and the Government forces—including the Labour Party and the hon member for Arena Park; they are Government forces—are seated betwixt and between the opposition forces. This is because those who arranged the seating are so obsessed with racialism that they cannot get away from racial separation, even when it comes to a stupid little thing like seating. This pathological obsession with racialism is going to be the undoing of all of us in South Africa.

In this Chamber there is a slight colonial throwback. In 1896 it was in this Chamber that the parliamentary franchise which the Indian component in Natal then enjoyed was taken away. In 1924 the municipal franchise which that community enjoyed was taken away—in this very Chamber! Today, however, we find also a throw-back to the colonialist era in that we have the viceroy of the regime together with his five councillors. The viceroy is an appointee; the five councillors are appointees. They were never elected to the position which they hold at the present time. If anyone objects to the injection of the British colonial atmosphere into this House then I shall amend my statement by saying that we have the Oberfuehrer of P W Botha here in the person of the Administrator.

On a point of order, Mr Chairman: Is it parliamentary language to refer to the hon the State President as an Oberfuehrer?

No, Sir. I referred to the appointee as the Oberfuehrer.

I would suggest, Sir, that that is also not parliamentary language in that it refers to the Administrator.

Order! I should like to call upon the hon member for Reservoir Hills to refer to the hon the State President as the hon the State President.

Mr Chairman, the hon the State President has appointed individuals to the provincial executive in the same manner that a certain chancellor of another country appointed his representatives to the various lands at that time.

We were promised and we were told that the Provincial Executive would be a multiracial body. Reference was made by the hon member for Stanger this morning to the Provincial Executive being a multiracial body. I want to know where the Black people of Natal are represented in the Provincial Executive. [Interjections.] I do not want to know about the joint executive authority—I am talking about the Executive Committee which rules this part of the province.

We were told about accountability. Anyone who understands political philosophy will tell us that accountability is not merely to appear before a forum to answer questions. Accountability is going back to the electorate and asking the electorate to approve or not to approve the actions of those who administer government. [Interjections.] There is no accountability by the Natal Provincial Executive to any electorate because not a single member of that Executive is directly answerable to the electorate. Not a single member will offer himself for election because that is not the situation. Anyone who says so, is subverting Parliamentary procedure. Indeed, he is perverting political philosophy and he will be a political pervert. [Interjections.] We do not want a perversion of the democratic processes.

What we need as a substitute for the abolition of the provincial councils is a system for the election of the members of the Executive Committee and that system could take many forms.

I now want to deal with the group areas. [Interjections.] A total of 85 persons were refused groups areas permits. Every single individual on the Executive Committee—regardless of whether or not he tells us in private that he asked for a group areas permit application to be granted—is co-responsible, co-culpable and guilty of a gross offence against humanity by the Council refusing such a permit. I want to say that those who expelled Mr Henry Klotz, the mayor of Durban, deserted him. Any kind of apartheid, whether it is on the beach or not, can never be supported by Mr Klotz and he refuses to become a clot.

I now want to deal with the statement made that the concept of own affairs with regard to hospitals is academic and theoretical. If we want to rule this country by deviousness and by telling lies to the public, then let it be academic and theoretical. If we want to be honest and to uphold a clean administration, however, let it be admitted that hospitals can never be a part of own affairs. That part of the designation by the hon the State President is therefore absolutely nonsensical. It is not just theoretical, it flies in the face of truth and is unfactual.

In regard to the question of the joint executive authority, I admit immediately that what the hon member for Pietermaritzburg South said in that context was sound common sense. Why, therefore, can those members from the provincial administration not be full members of the Executive Committee of the province and participate absolutely fully? There is no logical reason why that should not be possible. The logical answer is that the recommendation of the Natal-KwaZulu Indaba should be accepted by all sensible and honourable people as being the regional solution for the political problems of Natal. If that is done, we will be able to usher in a kind of peace in Natal which has not existed previously. [Interjections.] We will be able to introduce a kind of inter-racial co-operation which can only produce harmony. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, one does not have much time for philosophising or speculating when one has to reply to so many issues. I intend to proceed forthwith to deal with some of the matters that have been raised by hon members here today.

Firstly, the hon member for Stanger raised the issue of the rating problem, particularly as it affects the Indian community. I want to place on public record that we are aware of the inequities that do apply in this regard. We have taken steps as an administration to try to bring relief in certain cases and we continue to try and bring relief with regard to our powers to delay the preparation of new valuation rolls.

I want to say, however, that the proposal that this problem should be solved by what amounts to cross-subsidisation from one section of the community to another, is not one that is acceptable to this administration. We believe that this matter in fact should be handled by a definite programme to increase the amount of land available to the communities who are suffering the results of this situation of supply and demand. We therefore happily support the suggestion made by the hon the Chairman of the Ministers’ Council in the House of Delegates that this matter should receive our urgent attention. I wish to assure him that in fact it is receiving our urgent attention.

With regard to the question of the devolution of powers to local affairs committees, and in particular to local authorities, I want to say that we find ourselves in a somewhat difficult position. This administration has agreed and is party to the agreement that the co-ordinating council for local government affairs should be the council which guides the decisions in this regard. We are subject to a resolution of that co-ordinating council on which are represented all communities in local government in this country, right up to the highest level. Here we are urged and criticised for not devolving powers fast enough to local authorities.

I, in my capacity as a member of the Executive Committee dealing with these matters, regularly attend meetings with the relevant hon Ministers from both the House of Delegates and the House of Representatives. They too support the view in those meetings that we should be seen to be devolving powers to local authorities and to local affairs committees. We therefore find ourselves in a cleft stick situation when we are told by the standing committee and by speakers here today that this is exactly what we should not be doing. It makes it very difficult for us as an administration really to be able to ascertain what these communities want us to do.

I want to say that with regard to local affairs committees and the plea that in negotiating with them we should deal only with a regional association—in the instance of Natal it is the Natal Association of Local Affairs Committees or NALAC—it is not for lack of trying that such efforts have failed. This administration set up a committee chaired by myself on which were represented all the regional bodies for local government in Natal together with our officials to try to thrash out a modus operandi for the assignment, devolution or delegation, as the case may be, of real and meaningful powers to local affairs committees. However, we found ourselves in a situation where from one meeting to the next we had no consistency in approach and no reliable indication from the body concerned as to what they wanted.

We would have agreement at one meeting and then disagreement on the same issue at the following meeting, and so it was in frustration that we dissolved that committee and resolved to deal directly with local affairs committees. I want to say that we have an extraordinarily good relationship with individual local affairs committees. We are prepared to work with them and we have a great understanding for them. We wish— and it is my desire—that we could develop a similar relationship with NALAC, that is to say, one of attempting to seek a common solution rather than one of criticism and of breaking down the good that we attempt to do.

In regard to additional powers, I am not going to enter into a controversial argument here as to what the eventual direction of local government is going to be but I want to say that whatever that direction is, albeit independent, ethnically based local authorities or some other arrangement, in order for any arrangement to be successful the participants must gain experience in exercising authority with responsibility. They must gain experience in making decisions for which they can be held responsible, both financially and in other ways. I believe that the acceptance of delegated powers—devolved powers; real, meaningful powers—by local affairs committees in Natal will be of great advantage to them whatever the future may hold.

I want to emphasise that from our administration’s point of view this is not a trick to lure people into a situation of autonomy. It is part of the process of enabling people to experience what it is to have to fulfil the demands they themselves and their communities make.

In this regard I want to emphasise the fact that the coming into being of the regional services councils will, of course, give the members of local affairs committees a real and meaningful say, and this is to be welcomed. I feel sure that when they begin to exercise the real powers they will have there, they will see that there is an advantage to be derived from having a real say in the affairs of their own communities.

In regard to the regional services councils I want to touch briefly on one issue. I want to make it quite clear to hon members gathered here today that vis-á-vis KwaZulu it is not the case that it is either we or the legislation which is excluding KwaZulu. The factual situation is that they cannot be included against their will. The truthful situation, therefore, is that they are in fact excluding themselves. As I have emphasised, we cannot include them without their agreement. Suffice it to say at this stage that I am confident that we are in the process of finding a solution and that we will, through the good offices of the JEA and other contacts we have, arrive at a solution which will enable all peoples to participate in the benefits of the regional services councils system in Natal.

Moving on, I should like briefly to comment on the question of Tongaat, which was raised by the hon the Chairman of the Ministers’ Council in the House of Delegates. We believe that this matter has been happily resolved and that we shall in due course be able to report to the responsible Minister that we shall have a suitable arrangement in Tongaat. We have given this matter our urgent attention.

Many hon members present here today have made reference to the beach issue and I wish to take this opportunity to place on record some factual information pertaining to the exact parameters within which we as an administration have to work.

First and foremost I want to make it clear that the reports that appear in the media and in other publications to the effect that the beaches of Natal are open, or closed, or zoned, or whatever the case may be, are not true. The factual situation is that outside the port cities of Durban and Richards Bay no beach in Natal has ever been zoned for the exclusive use of any group. Therefore, it is not a question of whether or not people are permitted on a beach. No person has been prohibited by way of legislation from using any beach outside those two port cities.

The following are some interesting statistics in relation to the coastline from Tugela Mouth to Port Edward. Firstly, 90% of the land adjoining the Admiralty Reserve is either a White group area or a controlled area effectively occupied by Whites. This is an historic fact. [Interjections] The remaining 10% is shared by KwaZulu at Turton and Mgababa; by the Indian community at Tongaat and Umzinto North; and by the Coloured community at Ifafa Beach.

That is scandalous; absolutely scandalous.

It might well be. I am giving hon members the historic facts.

It is still scandalous.

Furthermore, Natal’s beaches have been carefully researched and have been classified into four groups. [Interjections.]

The A category beaches are those that are considered highly suitable for recreational use. The B category beaches are those that are considered suitable but do have some limitations. The C category beaches are those that are suitable but have distinct limitations or reservations, and D category beaches are those that are totally unsuitable or dangerous.

I also want to state as an historic fact that all A and B category beaches in Natal are settled by members of the White group, as are the majority of the C category beaches. The potential for new beach development is virtually nil. In fact we have identified six small enclaves along the entire coast south of Durban where new beach development could take place.

You know what that means; they will grab the lot!

I want to make the point that it is therefore clear that no matter what point of view one adopts, anyone who insists on beach segregation or beach demarcation along racial lines will have to concede that this will require a major sacrifice by the White group. Our policy, therefore…

That is absolute nonsense! [Interjections.]

Clearly hon members have not allowed me to finish and they do not understand what I am leading up to. They do not understand. [Interjections.] Our policy, therefore is to concentrate on the provision of additional facilities and infrastructure on existing beaches and on new beaches in an attempt to spread the crowds as widely as possible across all beaches.

Quite clearly those problems that have been experienced are associated with overcrowding and the resultant anti-social behaviour. In this regard methods of crowd control, including limiting and controlling parking and the introduction where necessary of suitable pay beaches, are being investigated.

What do we need to enable everyone to have a place in the sun on the beaches? We need money. In this present year we received an amount of R4,7 million for the development of facilities on beaches. We believe that we could comfortably use R29 million to enable facilities to be established so that everyone can use the beaches in comfort. However, we are doing our best within the financial constraints placed upon us in an effort to accommodate everyone. [Interjections.]

I have sketched the historical situation and the parameters within which we have to work. This is a situation that has developed over a period of 100 years or more and we are attempting to solve the problem which exists at the moment.

It is quite clear from the reaction I received that the gravamen of what I said in fact did not get through to certain hon members in the House.

On the question of the credibility of the executive committee regarding members being elected or nominated, I just want to say one thing: There are those of us on the Executive Committee who have stood for election and fought elections many times. I want to put on record that I as a person would prefer any time to be elected. The irony of the situation is of course that every election I have ever fought, I have soundly beaten a member of the party to which I now belong. It is of interest to me that it is because I believe that one has to try and make a positive contribution to the solving of our problems that I find myself having accepted this particular nomination.

Was that a carrot?

No, there are neither diamonds nor carrots in the circles in which I work, Mr Chairman.

On the question of library services, I have taken note of what the hon member for Wentworth has said. I am pleased to be able to report this afternoon that the situation is improving, literally, month by month and that more and more of our library facilities are being used by all the ratepayers of the local authorities in which they are situated. There are certain constraints with regard to opening libraries totally for people outside the borough or the local authority, simply because of space or the size of the facility concerned.

On the question of the limited supply of books, I would just like to make it clear that all books in our central depot are available to all the affiliated libraries. Therefore our total supply of books should be available, on an exchange basis, in every library and they are continually changed by our mobile services. Therefore, the only constraint, in fact, on the variety or the choice of books at libraries is the limit we have in our central stores. Books have become enormously expensive items since most of them are imported. I do wish to place on record that as far as the provincial library services are concerned all books in that service are available to all subscribers and all members of libraries, whether that library be in a small hamlet or in one of the bigger cities. Obviously, there is a limit as to how fast we can exchange the books since there is a logistic problem, but there should be no problem at all of access to our entire stock by all the people who subscribe to those libraries.

Mr Chairman, I welcome the announcements regarding the increase of beach facilities. It will certainly relieve problems on the beach with regard to recreation. However, I believe the very figures which the hon member quoted, namely that 90% of the property on the beachfront belongs to White group areas in itself tells a story. However, I believe that this does not only go for recreational aspects, but also for ordinary residential property. I daresay that while 90% of the beachfront may fall within White group areas, it would also seem that when one flies in from the south 90% of all the level land in Natal belongs to White group areas. There is therefore a dire need for the entire edifice to be broken down, not simply regarding recreational property. The Group Areas Act itself must go.

The MEC certainly gave a new meaning to the concept of supply and demand when he referred to land. In any normal society that is an economic concept. In our society I am afraid economics must always play second fiddle to certain ideological constraints.

When we take part in this debate, it in no way implies our satisfaction with the procedure and the constitutional concoction in which we find ourselves here today having to deal with the affairs of the province of Natal. In this regard it seems that I am not alone because not one single party in this Chamber in fact accepts the Constitution of our country. It obviously goes without saying that those who are not here today also do not accept the Constitution of our country, namely those Black Natalians whose affairs we discuss here today as general affairs of the Whites, Coloureds and Indians. However, they are not here even to discuss their own affairs. I think it is a sorry state of affairs that the constitution which should determine the future history of our society, should be shaped by the degree of discontent that is prevailing in our society.

Why do you not give us your plan?

It is very simple, Sir. South Africa is one country and it belongs to all its people and all its people should have a say in the Government. It is as simple as that. If one does not understand the logical conclusions of democracy, one has a lot to learn.

The hon member for Umlazi and others said that this was an historic occasion. This one can only agree with. It is a day in the history of South Africa, but I am afraid that this will not be a proud occasion to look back on. When scholars eventually look back on this day, I think they will hang their heads at the so called bearers of the democratic tradition for the devious ways they go about trying to circumvent the very consequences of democracy, namely the scrutiny of the majority of the people. The challenge of the future in South Africa is to bring legitimacy to the government in South Africa. For many years this Chamber had that legitimacy because the members who were elected here and who discussed the affairs of the province could be held responsible by the electorate.

One man, one vote.

And women too. We are not a sexist lot. Women and men should all have the vote. Today this Chamber is responsible also on a one man, one vote basis, but that one man is the hon the State President and he is the man with the vote.

Legitimacy in government centres on two aspects. The one is the ideology, which determines the structures and the representation. The second is that which measures the fairness of the allocation of the resources over society and the sharing of the fruits in society. I think on both these scores this forum and indeed the Constitution of our country is flawed and it has no legitimacy.

Did they tell you that in Dakar?

No, one only has to walk outside here and ask the first Black man one comes across.

The hon member for South Coast said that the policies of the CP can only be achieved through the barrel of a gun. By that he is in fact trying to say that partitioning would have no legitimacy. However, I believe for the majority of South Africans the ideological difference between that party and the one which left this morning is very superficial indeed. The CP insists on geographical boundaries between people. The NP made one small little change by saying that one can now actually carry one’s boundary with one and call it own affairs. We have heard from this side of the House that that is also a totally unacceptable concept to those hon members.

Until the NP rejects the ideology of race as the determining factor in shaping the structures of society and also in terms of the allocation of resources, there will be no legitimacy in government in South Africa.

Let us, for example, look at how we now seek to evade the whole question of legitimacy. Some other factors determine policy. Let us for instance look at these applications under the Group Areas Act. How absurd that I, as a member of Parliament, must say aye or nay to some restaurant owner regarding whether he is able to serve a member of the Black population group with a sit-down meal. According to whether I say yes or no, I get a note back which says that it has either been accepted or rejected, without giving a reason.

Now what is the reason? Could it be that policy is determined by the racial prejudice of neighbours? As an MP I am asked to approve an application for a White farmer to be allowed to put an Indian family in a cottage—that was the word he used—on his farm to help him run a joint venture, a market gardening exercise. My simple question is this: All over South Africa many people of colour live on White farms. They help White farmers on their farms. I wonder why, in this particular instance, was it badged? Was it done because it was called a cottage and not a farm kaya? Why was there a special application needed?

There is another thing that bothers me even more, and that is the way in which priorities are determined in this country. If one looks at the White Paper on Law and Order, what are we busy with? It does not say that we are busy with government. It says we are busy fighting a revolutionary war. It also says that the allocation of resources is directed to those areas where the next bit of pressure is going to come from. In other words, we say: If you throw stones, we may very well give you some of the resources. I have seen occasions where people have argued substantial cases for having certain resources allocated their way. However, because they do not resort to throwing stones, nothing happens at that end.

I also want to refer to the whole road system on the highways. People have to live with what for years have been called off-ramps, but which have now been declared national roads. We build big tollroads which take most of the pressure off the roads during a normal day. After the tollroad is completed, we go and spend millions of rands to improve a few off-ramps or on-ramps so that some privileged people can get to work a few minutes earlier, while two or three kilometers down the road in the Valley of a Thousand Hills people are trapped. They do not even have roads to get to work every day. I would certainly like the whole question of infrastructure on the border between that highway area and the KwaZulu area to be seriously looked at.

I know many members of the Executive Committee. I respect their compassion and integrity. I think they do not necessarily want to be in the position they are in now, having to listen to all sorts of accusations about their representativeness, but they should seriously look at the whole question of infrastructure in that area on a non-racial basis. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Greytown wants to make a plea in this House on behalf of the Blacks. He does not even represent the supporters of the party who elected him at the last election. The Blacks have been invited to participate in a national council, where they will at last be able to examine the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa with us. I do not think it is up to him to take up the cudgels on behalf of the Blacks.

I should like to take this opportunity sincerely to thank the Administrator and the Executive Committee for the arrangements they have made to receive us here today. I also want to take this opportunity to thank them for the co-operation we have received from them. It is indeed a privilege to work with them. Thanks to them, our task as representatives is an easy one. We on this side of the House welcome the opportunity to discuss the affairs of this province today.

†I served on the Provincial Council of Natal for five and a half years as a member of the opposition. Although I may still sound critical this afternoon, I am speaking as a constituency man. I am speaking on behalf of Natal when I ask that more funds be made available for the maintenance and building of roads in Natal.

*In Natal, the construction and maintenance of roads is a very expensive process, for several reasons. Firstly, there is the question of the topography. There is the mountainous character of this province. Furthermore, our traffic increases by 6% a year as a result of tourism. Because of the increase in the tariffs of the SATS, most of our timber and sugar traffic must be transferred from rail to road. Often we find that the roads were not built for such heavy traffic and that we shall have to give urgent attention to this matter.

The roads in the rural areas are sometimes in such a bad condition that the people who use them cannot help being dissatisfied. Our rural inhabitants suffer damage to expensive vehicles and equipment as a result of the poor roads, while they also pay taxes and take out licences for their vehicles—just like those of us who live in town and travel on tarred roads every day. We find that growth points have developed in Natal and that the roads in those areas cannot carry the increasing traffic either.

†The funds provided for the construction and maintenance of roads in Natal have declined steadily in real terms over the past number of years. The effect has been that funds that are available for the construction of roads have dropped from 61,3% to 40% over the past 10 years. At the same time the allocation for other services has increased. The reduction in funds available for the construction of new roads, has resulted from the fact that construction of new roads is the only activity which can be varied significantly from year to year when cutbacks are required. Should the present trend continue, the available funds will hardly be enough to cover maintenance and administration.

The backlog which built up over the previous five years alone was estimated at R556 million in September 1987. This was a result of inadequate funding to counteract the effect of the escalation of costs. Early in 1987 the Department of Finance prescribed that the future funding of roads in Natal was to be based on a negative real growth of 1,5%. However, the actual funds provided for the current and preceding financial years, have resulted in an additional deficit of R76 million in real terms, compared to the allocation contemplated in the policy of a 1,5% decline in real terms.

*The volume of traffic on Natal roads is increasing by 6% a year, while less money is being provided for the construction and maintenance of roads. The result is that our roads in the province are deteriorating and that the traffic on the roads is becoming increasingly heavy. The situation has been aggravated by the exceptionally high rainfall we have had recently. The floods and the subsequent rain have considerably shortened the life of some roads.

Apart from the fact that the Roads Department is unable to handle all the additional repairs, more than R100 million will be needed to rebuild damaged provincial roads the life of which has been shortened. Consequently I want to take this opportunity to put a special request to the central Government that special funds be made available for this purpose, since obviously no provision has been made for the premature collapse of roads.

A further problem we are experiencing in practice as a result of this is that the tarring of roads which had been properly tarred to begin with, will have to be postponed for a considerable number of years.

†In addition to the foregoing, the Department of Finance has ruled that the construction and maintenance of the main roads in KwaZulu must be funded from the Provincial Vote without any additional funds from the Treasury or the Department of Development Aid.

*The construction of the Ulundi-Nongoma road, for example, will cost R31 million, which will have to come from provincial funds. The road from Vryheid to Nongoma and Umfolozi will also have to be financed from provincial funds. Access roads to the Black areas, especially those around Durban, have become urgently necessary. However, there are not enough funds available for this purpose, and because of the importance of these routes, we wish to request the central Government to make special funds available to the province for the building of these important access roads as well.

This brings me to the floods which we experienced in Natal in 1987-88. I want to take this opportunity to thank the central Government for its aid to flood victims in Natal. I also wish to thank the hon the Administrator and the Executive Committee, as well as the Roads Department in particular, for the way in which they handled this situation.

The September 1987 floods are regarded as the worst disaster South Africa has ever suffered. The September floods were followed by an unusually wet summer, during which there were more local floods that did great damage to roads and bridges. The worst of these was the flood in the Drakensberg area during February 1988. It is estimated that the total cost of repairing the flood damage will be R110 million in respect of September 1987 and R30 million in respect of the subsequent floods, which gives us a total of R140 million.

The floods have made enormous demands on the staff of the Roads Department. Of course, private contractors have also been used. We convey our sincere thanks to the hon the Administrator, the Executive Committee, and the Executive Director of Roads and his department for their magnificent achievements. I know of no other civil engineering organisation in South Africa that has ever handled a situation of this kind as well as Natal has done. We want to convey our sincere congratulations to them all on this occasion.

Mr Chairman, I, too, want to place on record, as did other hon speakers, my appreciation for the hon the Administrator, his Executive and the entire Administration for their untiring efforts during the time of the flood disaster. I had the privilege of serving on the Cabinet committee that dealt with the flood disaster together with the hon the Administrator, and I would like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to his contribution in this regard.

Other speakers have said, and it bears repeating, that today’s sitting and debate is an historic one. I stand here as a son of Natal, born in the J G Crooks Hospital—commonly known as the Re-nishaw Hospital—and raised on a farm in this very province. However, today’s sitting is also tinged with irony, given Natal’s political history. At this point I would like to echo the statement by the hon member for Stanger, when he said that the vast majority of Natalians are absent today. For this reason we in the Labour Party see this sitting as an interim step towards the ideal propounded by my party; ie a non-racial, geographically-based federal form of Government. It is also of particular significance to us who, as people of colour, were excluded from participating in the debates of the old provincial council which was segregated, exclusively for Whites. At this point we need to make it clear to the Conservative Party—this was also stated by other speakers—and to anyone else who is ignorant of the fact, that the old provincial councils were not democratically elected. These councils were elected by Whites and were racially exclusive in composition, taking decisions which affected the lives of people of all races in the various provinces. As one who regards himself as a democrat, in the true sense of the word, I could not and cannot regard the old provincial councils as having been democratic.

The hon member for Umlazi in his address referred also to the 1910 Act of Union. Here again it needs to be said, lest we forget, that this was the very Act that specifically excluded us from participation in the governing bodies of this country.

During his introduction the hon the Administrator touched on several points; specifically constitutional development in our country and also removal of disparity. Amongst others these are the very points that I wish to address. One of the functions of the provincial administration, as the hon member for Greytown pointed out, is the issuing of permits in terms of the Groups Areas Act, Act No 36 of 1966. These permits are issued to people of one race group wishing to live in a group area set aside for another race group. The Labour Party believes strongly that the Group Areas Act has no place in South African society. However, this leads me to a problem that has existed in this very city for more than 20 years. I refer here to a group of families living in the area commonly known as the Fitzsimmons Road— Buttery Crescent area.

When the Group Areas Act was first implemented in 1966 it was expected of these families to move out and make way for people of another race group—in this case the Indians. Since then these families, who are classified Coloured, have had the sword of Damocles hanging over their heads. I now wish to refer to an article in the Natal Witness of Thursday, 12 May 1988, written by Strini Moodley. The article is headed:

The article states, inter alia, that:

We should like this point cleared up as speedily as possible. It is immoral for a group of people, for ideological reasons, to have this sword of Damocles hanging over their heads for such a long time. I fail to see why there should be a delay in this matter, and I believe it should be resolved as speedily as possible. I await with anticipation a reply from the relevant Minister or his administration.

At this point I want to refer to racial incidents that have occurred in the recent past on our beaches. The hon MEC Mr Miller made reference in his address to this particular issue, and we all know that the Blanckenberg affair is history. The issue, I believe, was fully debated; in fact, I myself raised the issue in the House of Representatives in an earlier debate this year. However, since that incident, other similar incidents have occurred. I refer for purposes of this debate to the incident in which a certain Mr Ismail Moolla of Umzinto was asked to leave or was prevented from using the beach at Umtwalumi. This gentleman, whom I might add regards himself, and is regarded by many others, as a patriotic South African, took it upon himself to write to the Administrator asking him to take action. I am given to understand that the hon the Administrator, in his reply, stated that common law provisions were adequate in this case, and that therefore it was unnecessary for him to take any action. On this point I disagree with the hon the Administrator.

What must he do?

I shall tell you know what we must do. You and I, Mr Chairman, as well as the hon the Administrator, know that in theory, perhaps, common law provisions may seem to be adequate, but in practice the ordinary man who is turned away—illegally, mind you— from utilising a beach, will not take the trouble to take the matter further.

Order! I regret to have to inform the hon the Deputy Minister that his time has expired.

Mr Chairman, I rise merely to afford the hon the Deputy Minister the opportunity to complete his speech.

I thank the hon Whip. I believe that the time has come, as a logical step, when punitive measures should be applied in cases of this nature. Incidents such as these do irreparable harm to this country’s image. No amount of vacillating or explaining the situation away can repair the damage. I therefore believe it is time we made it an offence punishable by law to prevent any person from using any beach on the Natal coastline—apart, obviously, from the port of Durban and the port of Richards Bay.

This brings me to the whole question of local government and local authorities. Again, in his address to us the hon MEC Mr Miller made the statement—obviously he was referring to people of colour—that people of colour had first to gain some experience before being elevated to these positions in government.

When I became an MP I had no experience. Two years later I was appointed a Deputy Minister, to my surprise. I had had no experience. Therefore we see that statement as merely delaying the inevitable; it is unacceptable. It is time we addressed the whole question of representation on local authorities.

You misunderstood the statement.

Then you should have made it clearer. We believe it is time that the status of existing city and town councils and community councils was changed to that of management committees, as they exist in other provinces, or to that of local affairs committees, as they exist here in Natal. Then all these Mancoms and LACs could serve—for want of a name—on a metropolitan council. We believe that this is an important interim step, and it must be seen as such.

Mr Chairman, it is indeed a privilege and a great pleasure for me to follow the hon the Deputy Minister of Population Development. He is a man who has already distinguished himself in parliamentary circles, and there is a lot in what he said during the course of his speech. However, time does not allow one to make a fuller appraisal of his speech.

At the outset I, too, want to associate myself with the tributes paid to the hon the Administrator and the members of the Executive Committee. I can say this in all sincerity, since I have had numerous dealings with the Administrator and his Executive, and I have been accorded not only the greatest courtesy, but also the greatest efficiency. It gives me much pleasure to record this.

There is something I would like to point out to hon members who are present today. As far as I can see, and as I assess the position, we are today witnessing the greatest achievement yet of the tricameral system. It is all very well to talk about apartheid as if nothing has happened. The NRP supported the ‘Yes’ vote in the referendum and, as time goes by, one realises what an important and correct decision that was. We must talk about phasing out apartheid. Let us be realistic: We would not be sitting here today, or even in our various Chambers, had there not been some conviction as regards the phasing out of apartheid. We supported the ‘Yes’ vote on the basis that it was a step in the right direction. However, I am not saying that one is looking for the permanent exclusion of the Black people. Their exclusion may be taking too long, but I think the point is that one has to appreciate the problems that are being experienced and we had evidence of this this morning when certain members of this Committee decided to withdraw.

I now want to deal with the question of the road systems in this province. The problem when preparing a speech on such a broad subject as a provincial budget is the ability to decide on what aspects must be included in order to comply with the requirements of a ten minute speech, which I now note is down to eight minutes.

For this reason one can only deal relatively briefly with certain specific subjects. It is for this reason that I, in the first place, wish to turn my attention to the specific question of the funding of the road systems in the province, a matter that has also been referred to by the hon member for Umfolozi. I am particularly concerned about the amount that has been allocated in the Budget for this purpose. It is quite obvious that a crisis situation exists in regard to the financing of the Natal roads.

It is a frightening prospect that the accumulated financial backlog to restore provincial roads in Natal to the required standard will involve an amount in excess of R500 million. More frightening still is the fact that the longer this backlog is allowed to drag on and accumulate, the more the possibility exists that the financial escalation will assume unmanageable proportions, leaving a situation where the condition of our roads will deteriorate to such an extent that they will be unable to cope with the present as well as the future traffic requirements of the province.

I need hardly remind members that this will have serious implications in many regions, particularly in those areas where rail services have been terminated relatively recently. The province is now faced with yet a further problem as a result of the September floods, and one notes with concern that financing from the provincial budget will be called upon to meet the costs of repairing large sections of the road systems which have been undermined due to the excessive rainfall.

I want to point out that a further responsibility has now fallen into the lap of the Natal Roads Department in the form of the upgrading and maintenance of the alternate road to the N3 between Nottingham Road and Estcourt. Let me say right now that I consider this road to be highly unsuitable as an alternate road to the N3 for a number of reasons, the most important being that there are sections which are highly dangerous. In my opinion this road does not measure up to being classified as a suitable alternate road to the proposed tolled N3. I might point out that the road in question was condemned some 15 years ago as being inadequate to carry the heavy vehicles of that time. One’s mind boggles when comparing the heavy vehicles that were operated then with the giants of today.

My question is, and I trust that I will receive a reply to this: Who took the decision in regard to the suitability of this road and on whose shoulders will the responsibility rest if accidents occur on such dangerous sections as Griffins Hill? Furthermore, I wish to make it clear that I consider the route through Nottingham Road itself to be highly unacceptable in that accidents are bound to occur when the section becomes congested as a result of the regular large livestock auctions that are held in the area.

I await with considerable interest replies by the hon the Minister of Transport Affairs tomorrow to questions I submitted in Parliament as to when the toll at Mooi River will become operative and when the upgrading of the alternate road will be completed. As I see it, there can be no question of the toll being opened at Mooi River before the problems surrounding the alternate road have been finally resolved.

For the information of this Committee, I would like to point out that the estimated cost of upgrading the alternate road has been calculated at R50 million—to be borne by the province. I find it strange that no mention has yet been made regarding the additional funds from the Treasury for this purpose. I would ask the hon the Administrator or the member of the Provincial Council who is responsible for roads to give us an indication as to what developments there have been in regard to the funding of the alternate road. The province is so strapped for cash at the present time that there is no way that it can carry this additional responsibility. It is therefore imperative that the Treasury provide the funds for all aspects of the road improvement arising from the so-called “privatisation” of the N3.

In the few minutes still available to me, I too wish to turn my attention to the JEA of Natal-KwaZulu. I would be interested to hear how many meetings have been held and to receive a general progress report in this regard. It is important that this initiative remains fully functional if it is to achieve the objects for which it was created.

I support the comments of the hon member for Pietermaritzburg North. I can think of no more appropriate opportunity than this to appeal to the Government to interest itself once again in the Indaba proposals. The efforts of those who participated in the Indaba exercise must not be allowed to dissipate into thin air. History will yet record that the Indaba initiative itself was a great achievement—for no other reason than that it proved that it is possible for people of all race groups to get around the negotiating table in an attempt to sort out regional problems. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I am pleased to be able to participate in this discussion. At this stage I only wish to deal with a few matters that have been raised in the debate so far. Generally speaking, I feel it is a pity that only two days have been set aside for this. I also feel it is a pity that the structure of a debate of this nature should be that the whole of the provincial Budget should be dealt with as a unit. It would make it much easier if one could deal separately with, for example, roads, hospitals or local government in separate Votes. One could then have a meaningful discussion and a meaningful structure in the debate on that matter. That, however, is a matter to be decided at Parliamentary level. I merely wish to make a suggestion in that regard.

I would like to deal initially with some matters that have been raised by the hon member for Mooi River, dealing with the toll road and matters relating thereto. I think it is an extremely important matter. While dealing with that issue, I shall also deal briefly with the whole financing structure of roads in Natal.

On the question of toll roads, it is unfortunately so that the freeway is a responsibility of the Department of Transport and not of the Provincial Administration. Our involvement in the negotiations has been very much on the periphery. Now that the negotiations have, for all practical purposes, been completed and the responsibility has been handed over to the consortium Tollcon, it has become our responsibility to deal with the possible consequences.

According to available information the tolls levied at the two toll plazas at Mooi River and at Keeversfontein, the junction of the new free-way—which is likely to be completed within about two months—and the Ladysmith-Van Reenen Road are likely to be R6 at Mooi River and R6,50 at Keeversfontein for ordinary motor cars. I believe that a higher tariff, but not a much higher tariff, is to be charged for lorries and multi-axle vehicles. I do not wish to express an opinion on the justification of the tariff. The establishment of a privatised road of this nature is a new venture. There is virtually no basis on which accurate calculations can be based and I must accept that Tollcon is likely to review the tariffs once a pattern of user traffic has developed.

I do, however, believe that the relatively high tariff and the fact that the travelling public is not accustomed to the imposition of such high tolls, is likely to have the effect that a substantial portion of the traffic which currently uses the existing freeway is likely to be diverted onto the alternative toll-free route. From Frere to Van Reenen, the existing national road via Colenso and Ladysmith is available and can most probably continue to carry the traffic. It does so at the moment. It is, however, because of the inadequacy of the existing route that such danger spots as Colenso Heights exist and that it was considered essential to build the new freeway. Now, however, there will be less traffic on the existing road and so at least the alternative route from Frere via Ladysmith should be able to cope with a reduced volume of traffic.

My concern, however, is that the alternative route between Hilton and Frere, ie the old main road through Nottingham Road and Mooi River, is not at present adequate to carry the expected increased volume of traffic. Estimates of the increased traffic as a result of the re-routing vary between 30% and 15% of the traffic that uses the freeway at present. Either way, it will be a considerable additional burden on a road which over the years has become what one could call a satisfactory rural road.

At a push it might be able to carry the additional motor cars. It would be, to put it mildly, at a serious inconvenience. However, I do not believe that it could carry any substantial number of additional heavy vehicles.

The Provincial Roads Department would then be called upon to give urgent and serious attention to the upgrading of the alternative route. At the present time we have not included that section in our five-year programme and neither have we provided in our 1988-89 budget for any major work on that road. I must add that at present we do not have any available funds to divert from other projects to that road either. It is a matter which will have to be taken up urgently and seriously with the Treasury and the hon the Minister of Transport. I would therefore submit that urgent submissions have to be made in regard to this matter.

From a survey of the alternative road, it would appear to be possible for road users to shorten the alternative route by diverting from the freeway at the Nottingham Road turn-off. In other words they could make use of a considerable section of the freeway up to the Nottingham Road turn off and then proceed via Rosetta to Mooi River, crossing the freeway and, before reaching Est-court, turning off to the left back onto the free-way. It would therefore not be necessary to use the whole of the alternative route.

However, whereas that might be possible, I do not think it would be in the right spirit to use a privatised road without contributing to its income. Obviously, however, road users will take advantage of the best possible road available to them over the longest section of the route.

I should like to announce that the Executive Committee will be holding discussions with the consortium Tollcon within the next few weeks and then we shall probably be able to discuss many of these aspects which will become part of our responsibility.

At this stage I should also like to refer to certain matters relating to the Joint Executive Authority. Numerous hon members have referred to the Joint Executive Authority. I should like to mention that the Joint Executive Authority, consisting of five MECs and five members of the KwaZulu Cabinet, have had regular meetings every month.

Apart from the JEA we also have the so-called Working Group where the officials of the NPA and the officials of KwaZulu meet separately, also once a month. Then we also have various sub-committees to deal with specialist organisations. At the moment we have two specialist interest groups, such as one for hospitals and health matters and one to deal with questions relating to squatters and housing development.

However, the JEA is not a super-provincial government but rather a vital co-ordinating body which deals with a variety of matters that are of common concern to both Natal and KwaZulu. Such matters can be assigned to the JEA by the hon the State President at the request of KwaZulu and/or the Administrator.

As an example I should like to refer to the co-operation on hospital and health matters. The area of Natal and KwaZulu is almost as interlocking as a jigsaw puzzle. Both metropolitan Durban and metropolitan Pietermaritzburg are made up of KwaZulu residents and residents of the White, Indian and Coloured population groups, but also of large numbers of Blacks who are not resident in KwaZulu.

It is obvious that there should be the closest liaison and co-ordination between the two administrations. We have now established a Joint Standing Committee on Health Matters and, apart from the monthly meetings of the JEA, Dr Mdlalose, KwaZulu Minister of Health, and I, together with my colleague, Mr Naidoo, meet on a regular basis. We have met three times this year and we address problems such as control of malaria, rabies, water pollution, the shortage of doctors, matters relating to district surgeons, the planning of community health clinics, etc.

Moreover, we have already established a joint purchasing arrangement for drugs, medicines and surgical sundries for both KwaZulu and Natal. This has resulted in an approximate expected saving in this financial year of between R2 million and R4 million for KwaZulu alone. However, it has also brought certain advantages to us in that we have now enlarged our purchasing organisation. We have been able to provide quality control and a well controlled computer ordering, handling and delivery service to the hospitals of Natal and to certain regional hospitals of KwaZulu in order to provide a really effective service. In this way we have been able to reduce the stockholding at our hospitals, with an expected saving of R2 million to us.

Moreover, by being able to monitor closely our respective needs in a co-ordinated way we can timeously assist the KwaZulu hospitals department when requested to do so by seconding doctors and, if necessary, also by jointly approaching the authorities in Cape Town or Pretoria to co-ordinate the recruitment of overseas doctors so that we can overcome the serious shortage of hospital doctors.

If the KwaZulu hospitals experience problems in coping with the pressure to provide adequate health services, then it is logical that there will be a greater pressure on our hospitals. Therefore it is necessary that the handling of these matters should as far as possible be co-ordinated. One hand must wash the other.

Daily the commuter traffic criss-crosses Durban. Some 2 000 buses pass King Edward VIII Hospital every day. I shall have more to say about the co-operation between the King Edward VIII Hospital and the Prince Mshiyeni Hospital at a later opportunity. However, the JEA is a practical example of sensible co-operation for the mutual benefit of both second tier governments within the region of Natal and KwaZulu. It is not only at the level of officials, but also at the level of top political functionaries. It is not an ad hoc co-operation but it is a statutorily structured executive body with powers to take decisions and to carry them out.

The JEA does not diminish the powers of either the KwaZulu Government or the Natal provincial government. Decisions are taken on the basis of consensus. I must add, however, that the matters that we deal with mostly involve basic practical issues on which co-operation is such a logical imperative that voting thereon has never yet become an issue.

It has the added advantage that the rubbing of shoulders on a regular basis, to deal with these practical issues, establishes the opportunity for the respective political leaders of the two governments to develop better understanding and mutual trust. It does not involve a possible political power-struggle, nor is it based on a majoritarian principle, which could so easily erupt into a conflict situation. The JEA is built on the foundation of co-operation and co-ordination. I would also like to say that we have had close co-operation on the question of libraries and the Executive Committee recently took a decision that a certain surplus stock of 300 000 books we have are to be donated to KwaZulu through the co-operation of the JEA. At this stage I will reserve further comments for a later stage.

Mr Chairman, the King Edward VIII Hospital in Congella, Durban, falls within the constituency of Umbilo, which I represent. I have had the opportunity to go on two extensive tours of the hospital. This hospital was officially opened by the Earl of Clarendon in December 1936. Exactly one week later King Edward VIII abdicated. Its original function was to provide general medical care for African and Indian patients, both inadequately catered for in existing provincial hospitals at the time. The neonatal King Edward VIII Hospital was well-designed. It was simple and pragmatic, the total cost of construction being R265 000 or R380 per bed for a 720 bed unit.

In 1951 the University of Natal Medical School was established in close proximity to the King Edward VIII Hospital. With this change of lifestyle, more progressive management was required. Phenomenal progress in medical services and technical advancement took place. The rapid urbanisation of Durban has resulted in a tremendous service demand. It was obvious that additional staff and space would be required to establish services such as an intensive care unit, an oncology unit and a burns’ unit. Many alterations within the existing structure took place and extra pre-fabricated buildings were erected. Modem equipment was purchased. However, the constricting anatomy of the hospital today still remains the biggest problem of the King Edward VIII Hospital.

Today the King Edward VIII Hospital, with all its traditions, has established itself as a medical mecca for patients from the whole of Natal, KwaZulu and Transkei. For those who like interesting figures, the King Edward VIII Hospital prepares 10 000 excellent meals a day, 18 000 loaves of bread are digested every month, washed down with 60 000 litres of milk and sweetened with 12 tons of sugar.

To give hon members a further indication of the position at the King Edward VIII Hospital at present, the figures given for the 1987-88 financial year are as follows:

Apparently, it costs about R135 per patient per day, whereas the income per patient is approximately R3 per day.

Mr Chairman, as the chief medical superintendent, Dr J Morfopolous said in the South African Medical Journal of 22 November 1986, and I quote:

He went on to say, and I quote:

The King Edward VIII Hospital has frequently been critically reported on by the media. On 18 April 1988 the hon the Deputy Minister of National Health, when he spoke in the House of Assembly, referred to the King Edward VIII Hospital and said, inter alia, and I quote:

*According to the hon the Deputy Minister the erection of a new academic hospital for Durban is now receiving attention and eventually this will lead to the King Edward VIII Hospital being developed as a regional hospital. He also mentioned that approximately R4 million had been allocated for the current financial year which is now going to be spent on the provision of further facilities there, eg the conversion of the outpatient section and the establishment of a blood bank for the laboratories of the emergency section.

†I understand that it has been decided to erect a new building on the northwestern comer of the existing site to provide specialist out-patient facilities for internal medicine, ear, nose and throat surgery and dermatology. Work on this project will apparently begin in July 1988 and will take two years to complete. The cost of the entire project will be in the order of R13 million.

I am given to understand that in addition the existing out-patient department will be upgraded, with considerable rationalisation of patient-flow patterns and improved facilities and that a dedicated trauma and casualty unit will be provided.

I wish to take this opportunity of specifically thanking Mr Volker, the MEC in charge of hospitals, and Dr Howes for the interest they show in the King Edward VIII Hospital and their efforts to bring about the upgrading and redevelopment of the hospital.

It is clear that once the Prince Mshiyeni Hospital is fully in use, it will alleviate the pressure on the King Edward VIII Hospital. I know that there has been significant progress in this regard during the current year, but I would like Mr Volker to tell us more in this regard. I would also like to ask him what the time-scale is for the building of the proposed new academic hospital in Cato Manor, and also what the position is with the building of a hospital in the Inanda area. It is further clear that community health centres can also alleviate pressure on the King Edward VIII Hospital. Although I know that much progress has been made in establishing community health centres, I would like to know what the future looks like in this regard.

In conclusion I wish to pay tribute to, and thank, the chief medical superintendent, Dr Morfopolous, and all other professional and administrative staff of the King Edward VIII Hospital for their excellent work and the high quality medical service they continue to provide to the community.

Mr Chairman, I stand here with bitterness. Allow me to express my bitterness here this afternoon. This Chamber has caused injustice to the non-White community of Natal. I say this, because this Chamber was responsible for most of the ordinances in Natal. It is this Chamber that passed the ordinances.

Let us look at the ethnic local authorities this Chamber created and which caused us hardship. Take Isipingo itself, which I represent. Go and look at Isipingo. Where do we get the money to run that town council? What money do we get? Should we go to the seashore and pick up pebbles to run the township? This Chamber has caused havoc to the non-White community of Natal.

I want to speak about Prospecton, a large industrial area, which was taken away from the Indian community. Isipingo originally belonged to the Indian community. It was their land. However, the Group Areas Board created Isipingo Beach, which was occupied by the Whites, and in the back of their minds they planned a huge industrial township.

They divided that community. In the southwest of Isipingo lies Isipingo Beach. In the southeast of Isipingo lies the Isipingo Rail. In the centre lies a huge industrial complex. Where does the revenue go? That revenue goes down to Amanzimtoti, even though it is within the borders of Isipingo.

Look at the condition of our beaches. That is why I ask where we get the money. Do we go to the seashore and pick up pebbles and run that beach? We did not ask for local authorities in Isipingo. Local authorities were pushed down our throats. It was pushed down our throats.

You elected them!

We never did that. It was pushed down our throats by this Chamber. That is where my grievance lies. It has created havoc.

I believed that if we had a new nominated executive on the Demarcation Board, justice would be done, but what happened? We had an election on 6 May 1987. What was the answer from the Demarcation Board and the Executive Committee of Natal? They said Prospecton had to go back to Amanzimtoti. Look at the environment of Isipingo. Go and look at it. I do not know if the Executive Committee has ever had the opportunity to go and visit the area.

Look at the condition of our roads. Where do we get the money? We have to tax our own people in Isipingo to pay the rates. Isipingo, an Indian area, pays the highest rates in this country. Our own people have to pay the rates. That little local authority must disband.

I now come to the Durban City Council. What is being done for the large Indian population of Durban? They divided us. They sent us to places where we did not want to go. They took our lands. They expropriated our own farms in Chatsworth where they put up homes. Just look at the homes they have put up in Chatsworth. Where did the instructions come from? The instruction came from this Chamber—nowhere else! The instruction did not come from Cape Town.

I agree with the CP. It was a hell of a waste of money to bring all these people here, to have this Parliamentary debate here. It costs money. The legislative functions take place in Cape Town. Why could we not have argued this in Cape Town?

Mr Chairman, on a point of order: The hon member for Isipingo used the word “hell”.

Oh man, that is so trivial!

Order! Did the hon member for Isipingo use the word “hell”?

Yes sir, I did say “hell”.

Order! Will the hon member please withdraw that?

Mr Chairman, I withdraw it. This is a complete waste of taxpayers’ money. The hon the State President said he wanted to fight inflation. Is this the way in which we are going to fight inflation, by having four different sittings of Parliament? Every possible service has been duplicated or triplicated—now we are quadruplicating it!

I humbly ask and plead with the Government. The city in which we discuss legislative matters is Cape Town. Why must we come here and sit in four different provinces? Why? Most hon members probably came here to have lunch at the expense of the City Council of Pietermaritzburg. I think that is what most hon members are waiting for. It is a waste of the poor ratepayers’ money. The ratepayers in Pietermaritzburg are paying for lunch today. It does not come out of anybody’s pocket here today.

Let us look at the issue in Clairwood, which is five kilometres away from the centre of Durban. This Chamber had the full authority to protect the area, but what has it done with this area? It has destroyed that community. That community was not an Indian community. It was a non-racial community. It was a multi-racial community. The Whites lived there. The Indians lived there. The Coloureds lived there. The Blacks lived there. What has this Chamber done? It has destroyed it!

Today the Durban City Council comes with plans to divide that community again. They want it to be an Indian area. We do not want it to be an Indian area. This Executive Committee has the power to stop that. Give it back to the rightful owners. What happened to our rates during all these years? We have been paying industrial rates. Where have our rates been used? Our rates have been used in the White areas—Montclair, Woodland, Brighton Beach. What services have we been given there? Go back and look at Clairwood. It is right in the centre of the city!

I sincerely believe that the entire tricameral system must go. Let us fight for one Parliament. Let us fight for a non-racial South Africa. Let us avoid the barrel of the gun. Let us avoid confrontation at our doorstep. The only way we can survive is by fighting for peace and harmony in this country.

Mr Chairman, I do not stand here to answer any questions, but I stand here as a result of comments made by Messrs Thompson, Heine and others, particularly with regard to the floods in Natal. Those of us that have been deeply involved in the damage that the floods caused, know exactly what happened throughout Natal, particularly on the North Coast. There has been considerable damage to the north of Tongaat, so much so that the Administrator himself, in the company of the hon member for Stanger and the hon the Minister of Local Government and Agriculture in the House of Delegates, toured the area around Stanger. They were able to see the millions of rands worth of damage that was caused. I thought it would only be fair for me to give this House an overview of the position we found ourselves in, and what the province had to undergo to put things right.

September is the normal time for the start of the rainy season in Natal, usually with gentle spring showers. In 1987, however, the rains started towards the end of August, followed by four days of continuous rain at the end of September.

We did not know this.

Unfortunately many people did not know the seriousness of the situation. They only went by what they read in the papers. I therefore thought it would be a good idea if I gave hon members an idea of what the province had to undergo.

The damage to the roads and bridges appears to have been caused mainly by the very high peak flows. These resulted from the extended duration of the rainfall, coupled with the occurrence of the highest intensity of rain at the time when the rivers were already full. It must be emphasised that, contrary to the view generally held, no modern bridge structures were damaged, although some of the bridges were washed away. The damaged structures were mostly between 26 and 42 years old, and were designed before the flood hydrographs currently used became available.

What about the La Mercy Bridge?

I shall come to that shortly. Little damage occurred to the modern national bridges which were less than 20 years old, although several bridges suffered severe erosion around the abutments. These bridges were designed with the benefit of better flood intensity and scour depth prediction data, which had not been available previously. Improved piling equipment has also become available since the early 1960s to build foundations capable of meeting modern design criteria.

The declared national road network consists of the coastal N2 route connecting inland to the Transvaal at Pongola, and the Durban-Johannesburg N3 route. Relatively little damage occurred on these main highways. The total cost of R4 million reflects the lesser damage suffered by modern high level bridges, often with additional waterways occasioned by the high geometric standard of freeways. The wide side drains minimised damage to road structures by diverting excessive flows from culverts which overfilled and by retaining slides of topsoil and grass away from the traffic lanes.

Only two serious disruptions required traffic to be diverted for several weeks. Some 200 metres of the southern approach to the Mvoti River bridge on the north coast was washed away and a landslide in residual dolerite soil on shale resulted in a 100 metre gap in the northbound carriageway of the N3 route at McKenzie’s Hill between Howick and Mooi River. This landslide necessitated the installation of stressed anchor cables to hold the southbound carriageway, which enabled this carriageway to carry all the N3 traffic during reconstruction of the failed section. A rock toe was constructed to restrain the slip movement without removing the major portion of the landslide, which was retained as the embankment with the road reconstructed on top.

Further landslides due to the February 1988 rains occurred adjacent to the Mariannhill Toll Plaza and at Inchanga, together with two sinkholes at Sterkspruit. Damage to rural roads and bridges occurred at more than 400 points and included 28 bridge structures, 130 bridge approaches and 40 causeways. The four major provincial bridges damaged were located on the coastal routes, either in estuaries or near the coast.

The greatest single disaster was the collapse of the John Ross Bridge over the Tugela River. This 27-year-old bridge had a continuous deck and was founded on caissons keyed into the tillite bedrock. The river level was well below the underside of the deck when the one pier in midstream was presumably displaced from its caisson foundation. The collapse of this pier resulted in a chain reaction which left only the abutments standing.

The traffic was diverted to the 50-year-old single lane steel bridge upstream and to the unused half of the rail bridge over the Tugela River. Preliminary tenders to design and construct a replacement bridge have been received and five tenderers have been selected to submit detailed designs and tenders. The construction period offered will be a major consideration in the adjudication of tenders in order to minimise the inconvenience currently being suffered by road users.

One pier and two spans of the Mdloti River bridge near La Mercy failed. The northern approach to this 26-year-old bridge was also washed away. This approach has been rebuilt and the two collapsed decks replaced by a single 32 metre span. This work, including minor widening of the deck, was completed within 11 weeks. During this period all the North Coast traffic had to be directed through Verulam and Tongaat. Severe traffic congestion was experienced and the additional road user costs were estimated at R55 000 per day.

On the South Coast three bridge structures at Illovo, Scottburgh and Port Shepstone were damaged by the floods. The 40-year-old structures over the estuaries at Illovo and Scottburgh were both founded on relatively shallow friction piles and caissons.

The Lovu River bridge was damaged for the third time. On each occasion a different pier had collapsed and it was therefore decided to construct a new bridge upstream of the present one. As an interim measure, a temporary single lane steel structure of the Callander Hamilton type has been erected across the gap in the bridge. The components of two bridges of this type were previously acquired by the Department of Transport for emergencies and were used for the first time. Valuable experience was gained and minor improvements will be made in future, including the replacement of the skid bearings with more robust units.

Four spans of the Mpambinyoni River bridge at Scottburgh collapsed and were replaced by three spans and two piers founded on very much deeper piles than the original ones. The spans which were rebuilt after the 1985 floods were not damaged. During construction traffic was diverted to a temporary causeway across the estuary. Subsequent rains in February have washed away the causeway on two occasions.

At Batstones Drift near Port Shepstone the lower level causeway over the Mzimkulu River was washed away. This carried mainly cane traffic and was built on timber piles after the 1959 floods. Traffic used a temporary pontoon bridge erected by the SA Defence Force while a new low-level structure founded on concrete piles was being constructed.

Inland the border bridge over the Mtamvuna River between Harding and the Transkei suffered the loss of its superstructure. A temporary Bailey bridge was also erected by the SA Defence Force to carry the traffic until the superstructure can be rebuilt by the Department of Transport.

Further upstream on the Mzimkulu River a 40-year-old bridge giving access to the Centocow Mission near Creighton was severely damaged. A temporary crossing has been provided using a second Callander Hamilton emergency bridge.

The approaches to the Josephine Bridge over the Mkomasi River between Richmond and Ixopo were washed away. Of particular interest is the fact that the south abutment constructed in 1914 was badly damaged and will have to be replaced while the adjacent extension built in 1972 withstood the onslaught.

Heavy rains in the catchment areas of both the Umkomaas and the Loteni Rivers in February 1988 resulted in damage to both these structures. The Loteni Bridge on the road between Himeville and Nottingham Road was washed away completely and two spans of the Umkomaas Bridge in Impendle were damaged.

That is a partial overview. I would not say that it is a complete overview but it gives hon members an idea of the damage caused to the roads and of the amount of time it took the Roads Department of the Natal Provincial Administration to repair the damage so that traffic could flow freely.

Mr Chairman, I consider it an honour and a privilege to participate in this debate after various speakers have already commented on the historic nature of this meeting. I want to say this afternoon that this is the beginning of great things for Natal. [Interjections.]

†Let us forget the frustrations of the past and build a better tomorrow. [Interjections.] Tomorrow is only as far as we are going to progress today. Yesterday has gone and therefore, hon members, let us join hands and try to replace those frustrations that we as non-Whites have experienced with something better, together with our White colleagues.

I therefore want to congratulate a certain gentleman who was a chairman of the standing committee for Natal, Mr Con Botha, on how he has welded together the three components of debating, criticising and building for Natal within a short period.

*Mr Chairman, I want to congratulate you as well. I am honoured to observe the way in which you have been presiding here all day, and the role you have played in these initial stages will be recorded for posterity.

†I also want to pay tribute to the Administrator, his executive members and officials for the way in which they constructed and presented this Budget to us this morning.

*The hon MEC Mr Volker was quite right in saying that the debate would be of a high standard if we took individual aspects, such as hospitals, local government and so on, and if we debated those aspects one at a time. That could lead to better things. For that reason I want to touch on only one aspect this afternoon, namely local government. The citizens of Natal are affected by local government. It does not matter who is in control when a water-pipe bursts. It does not matter who that municipality sends out when a road is in poor condition. Those citizens want it repaired. I therefore want to warn that the sparks are going to fly on 26 October of this year if we attach political connotations to our attempts to serve those citizens. Local government has changed so radically that Oom Jan van der Merwe, who has come to live in town after farming with bananas for many years, will no longer be able to join the municipality, because the present administration of that local body is such that it requires some knowledge on his part. It is going to be subdivided into portfolios and he will have to be charged with one of them. This is going to mean that the citizen in every city or town is going to come forward to ensure that men and women of the right calibre are voted into the municipality. I am so sorry that this morning’s gentlemen are not here to listen to this message.

They are not the real Afrikaners that I know, and I hope the Press will pick up this statement of mine. They are a group of Afrikaners who have gone astray. They must not, therefore, believe that that little breeze of change that is blowing in the Transvaal will be felt in the green fields of Natal. The same can be said about us. We are also fighting a by-election here, and on 8 June the people are going to vote for a party that is going to mean something to them, a party that has their interests at heart, and a party that criticizes and does not merely vilify, a party that has a new vision for Natal and for South Africa as a whole.

It is true that the status quo this afternoon is municipalities and management committees for Coloureds and Indians, but the Black inhabitants are not included yet. However, I am delighted to have heard here this afternoon that moves are afoot to accommodate them as well, and I should like these regional services councils to become mini-councils on which those two components of local government can meet and where we should cease to be blinded by financial considerations. This will be the case as long as there is and must be an interchange of ideas. To me, that is the beauty of this meeting.

I want to go further and talk about these regional services councils. These councils should have been introduced long ago; then we would not have had the duplication that we have today. More money will also be saved from now on. They will see to it that a regional services council starts upliftment work where it is needed most. I hope they have the courage to say that we are going to see to it here in Natal that men and women of the right calibre serve on these regional services councils.

I want to say something about my own component, the Coloured people, in Natal. They have no land at present. They have no land on which to build houses, and I ask the province to have certain areas set aside for them. That land need only be serviced, and they will build their houses themselves by means of a self-help scheme. The results could be wonderful. My people are prepared to work and to do the same things that any other component is doing in this region. Mr Chairman, I want to tell the Administrator through you that unfortunately my people do not have the land they need.

†They are sandwiched between other groups to a great extent. I do not want to touch on group areas. I only want to touch on the reality that my people cannot build houses, proper schools or the facilities that are required by a human being. All we want in Natal is to be treated as human beings and to be proud, as the hon the Minister mentioned here, to be from Natal. I am so pleased that through this platform now we have the members of Parliament and the Administration here and I can foresee only one thing and that is that with this new venture Natal will be the better for this no matter what political affiliation we have. Yesterday is past and we can only move closer to tomorrow if we make progress today.

Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure to speak after the hon member for Esselen Park. I should like to welcome the hon member to the green province, Natal, and thank him for his very positive contribution and the message that we can all build a future together.

†It is a nostalgic occasion for me, having been a member of the old Natal Provincial Council which was disbanded on 30 June 1986. With this I join other hon members in congratulating the hon the Administrator, the new Executive Committee and officials on the outstanding job they have done since that date.

We heard the hon the Administrator today comment and speculate that this historic gathering of the Extended Parliamentary Committee was not the end of the road as far as the constitutional development of second-tier government was concerned. Most of us welcome and endorse those sentiments, except of course for the radical racist right-wing CP who have boycotted proceedings today, no doubt to organise their political meeting in my constituency of Pietermaritzburg South tonight. They are a disgrace to any system!

When provincial councils were dissolved in 1986 most of us believed that we were going through an interim period in our history and were awaiting an extension of the new dispensation and it appears we were right.

This magnificent Chamber was used prior to Union in 1910 as the seat of Government of Natal and was a full two-Chamber system in those days. I look forward to and will work for the day when it will once again be used to maximum benefit as a Legislative Assembly on an elected basis to represent all the people of Natal. In spite of rejection by the right-wing opposition benches of the direction in which the NP is moving, I believe we shall succeed in spite of them.

The hon the State President outlined to the House of Assembly on 21 April this year far-reaching changes to South Africa’s political systems, with Blacks participating in all levels of government. The idea of the Great Indaba makes me confident of the future of our country. It is regrettable that certain of the members here today do not seek to build on these foundations, but have been totally destructive.

In the limited time at my disposal I should like to address myself to certain provincial issues, the first being hospital tariffs. The low cost recovery by nearly all of the provincial hospitals has been a matter of great concern for some years. Locally the cost recovery of Northdale and Greys Hospitals is reported as being 6,25% and 15% respectively. In most of the hospitals in the province, the recovery rate is well below this.

The revised fee structures introduced on 1 April still do not meet the Treasury’s guideline of a 20% recovery—and I am sure that all hon members will agree that even this is very low. The additional R15,606 million in income from hospital receipts budgeted for 1988-89 is, I think, a most welcome trend. However, the greatest care must be taken not to allow health care to deteriorate because of the financial circumstances of the patient. Social pensioners in particular must be accorded sympathetic treatment. On the other hand, the dodgers—and there are many of them—must be properly charged. Improved administration is an essential.

On the question of proposed increased boarding and accommodation fees to be paid by student nurses, I have a special plea to make. Fees have recently been increased from R70 to R104 per month, and a further increase to R170 or R200 per month is mooted for October this year. Our nurses do a wonderful job in health care with low remuneration. With no salary increases forthcoming as yet this year, I make a plea on behalf of the nurses at least to delay a further increase in boarding fees until a general increase in salaries is granted.

While a member of the Provincial Council, on several occasions I raised the question of conversion and proper utilisation of the Old Greys Hospital complex. Under Vote No 4—“General” I am pleased to note that much is being planned in continuing this conversion. It would be reassuring to know that all available accommodation is being utilised to full advantage. I refer in particular to the old nurses’ and doctors’ residential quarters which till recently provided accommodation to the University of Natal and in some cases to disadvantaged persons.

I now refer to ambulance services. In 1982, in response to deteriorating standards of prehospital and emergency care, Ambulance and Emergency Medical Services, known as AEMS, was constituted by the Provincial Executive Committee. This marked the transformation of a piecemeal and second-rate ambulance service into one of the finest in the country, and perhaps in the world.

At that stage there were 25 inferior ambulances, run by the various local authorities. There was no integrated system, and not a single paramedic. We had many unpleasant incidents. In the subsequent four years no fewer than 239 sophisticated new vehicles were introduced. More than a thousand trainees attended the provincial ambulance training school. A new air ambulance service was introduced in 1986, and this enhanced the emergency service even further.

I believe tribute is due to the MEC in charge of hospitals at that time, Dr Fred Clarke, and the various directors of hospital services, as well as the present MEC and Executive Committee, and the Director of Hospital Services.

At present the Ambulance and Emergency Medical Services operates as a separate institution within the Department of Hospital Services. It operates as a prehospital limb of the department, allowing integrated development and planning with the rest of the department. It has a responsibility that is province-wide, and as such is possibly the only emergency service in Natal that can of itself mount a co-ordinated province-wide response in the case of major incidents and disasters. In addition to this there are 250 000 annual interhospital transfers, together with all their normal duties.

The chief of the AEMS, holding the post of Chief Medical Superintendent, ensures not only the medical direction of the service, but enables the highest standards possible to be maintained. I think Dr Keenan should be congratulated on the standard achieved.

Functionally, five operational regions have been defined in Natal to ensure efficient administration and maximum integrated co-ordination. Recent speculation concerning the fragmentation of ambulance services by their being allocated to regional services councils or local authorities, fills me with dismay. Ambulance services are an integral part of health services, and cannot be divorced or be allowed to deteriorate. We must ensure that ambulance services remain under medical direction, supported by the co-ordinated responsibility of the province and the Department of Health and Population Development. Regional services councils are designed as an extension to democratic third-tier government and will not be in a position successfully to operate a modern, efficient, co-ordinated ambulance and emergency medical service.

One last local issue that concerns me is the present chaotic traffic conditions in Pietermaritzburg. The city centre is a problem for the City Council of Pietermaritzburg to resolve, but the daily traffic chaos on the arterial road access from the northern suburbs—Northdale, Eastwood and that area of the city on the other side of the national road—needs the urgent attention of the Department of Transport and the Natal Provincial Roads Department.

The City Council of Pietermaritzburg has budgeted R600 000 provisionally to commence a new project—the Manning Road extension and a bridge to span the highway, so creating a second route. It cannot contemplate this work without substantial outside support. With over 85 000 Indian and Coloured people in the area and an additional 2 000 homes planned, urgent attention must be given to an intolerable situation.

Mr Chairman, firstly I wish to extend our appreciation to the hon the Administrator and his colleagues for their warm welcome on this historic occasion, not only because it is in this building; I think that the meeting itself is also a very historic one.

The tricameral parliamentary system is no doubt a difficult one, as we are all going through a phase of change, and this is no doubt a transitional period for the different peoples of South Africa. In addition, old habits die hard. We believe that a concerted effort should be made by all our people to find permanent solutions to the many problems that confront us in this beautiful country of ours.

In saying this I want to echo the sentiment of the late Jawaharlal Nehru when he became Prime Minister of India. He said that we should not dwell on the past, although it might be a bitter one, a frustrated one and a very difficult one; instead we should look into the future and let the future beckon us. I think this is a leaf we should all take out of his book, and in that direction I want to say that I believe, for whatever it is worth, that this exercise that we are presently engaged in is no doubt a step forward; a step in the right direction, in search of what all of us here in South Africa are looking for.

This might be one of the small ways in which one sometimes finds the solutions that we are all looking for. I do admit, and I do agree that we are deliberating in this House in the absence of the majority of the communities that also reside in this province of ours, and it is of course not the best situation that they are discussing their requirements at another level or on another platform. However, I hope that this will bring about that kind of a change so that we all can sit and discuss how and where we should do things, and how we should spend our money and in which direction.

I should also like to thank the hon the Administrator—I do not want to embarrass him—and the executive members and all heads of departments, because I have been a party to the sufferings in the recent floods, and we alone who really suffer, know the pain. I want to express my thanks to the heads of these departments for the excellent job of work done during the floods in Natal, and especially the co-operation and understanding extended to all those victims and those involved in this very difficult situation.

I would just like to revert to what we are debating here today, namely the Budget for the 1988-89 financial year that is allocated to be spent in the province of Natal on different Votes which are numbered from 1 to 7. I do not want to elaborate on this as we have gone through this very thoroughly in the standing committee. I do want to say, however, that I do not believe that the amounts allocated in the different Votes are sufficient and that they will enable us to overcome the many difficulties that exist in various areas during this financial year.

Many positive and constructive reasons, however, were given to us as to why certain amounts were not allocated in order to meet the aspirations and the requirements for facilities in the various areas. Two very important reasons were the unexpected flood disasters that we have recently had as well as the very stringent financial constraints—not only in Natal, but in the country as a whole. One must remember that high positions require responsibility. It is with responsibility that I speak here today. These reasons were given to us by the efficient official of the Provincial Administration. We must not just criticise for the sake of criticising. I believe that those are the reasons why there were certain cutbacks in certain important areas where we would have liked to have seen that the necessary finances were found to enable us to execute various projects in those areas.

There are a few other matters of concern that pertain to my constituency and I believe that they fall under the umbrella of the Provincial Administration. First of all I would like to refer to the roads in our area. I would like to refer to the MR468 that goes through Dassenhoek and Mariannhill in the Indian residential area to KwaZulu. This has become a very busy and dangerous road, especially at the intersection with the through road to the Shallcross, Chatsworth, Klaarwater and St Wendolin’s residential areas.

The second road that is of great concern to all of us is the intersection of Acorn Road, Chestnut Road and the MR468. Acorn Road serves a primary school with approximately 1 000 pupils, while Chestnut-Crescent Road serves a high school also with approximately 1 000 pupils. It is necessary for these pupils to cross the road daily at this point. Statistics released in 1986 by the Protection Services Board in Pinetown revealed that 3 806 vehicles pass through this intersection daily between 6 am and 6 pm. I wrote to the relevant department in this regard in 1986 and I was assured that something would be done to make this intersection more safe. Many accidents have already occurred there—many of them fatal.

There seems to be some disquiet about the Arthur Hopewell Highway, the R613, becoming a freeway. At this stage I would like to appeal to the hon the Administrator that there should be consultation between all the authorities and all the communities who use this road presently. The community of Starkeville Village has no other access to Pinetown, Durban etc except along the R613.

Another matter of concern is the creation of a community clinic in the area of Shallcross, Das-senhoek, Mariannhill and Welbedacht. In the late seventies and early eighties it was suggested that an extension of the R K Kahn Hospital should be created here. There are 20 000 Indian people living in this vicinity and an extension of the R K Kahn Hospital here will alleviate the problems of congestion that are experienced at present.

I also want to mention that we have recently amended legislation that extended the life of services boards such as the Development and Services Board, the Water Board etc. We made these amendments to extend the existence periods of these community services boards. With that in mind, we would like these organisations to get off the ground now. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, whereas some of my hon colleagues on this side of the Committee have referred to specific aspects concerning the Budget, I want to refer more to the macro situation in the few minutes available to me. I want to advance reasons why I believe that there should be a thorough examination of the Central Government’s fiscal policy in respect of the financing of provinces.

†In his opening remarks to the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Provincial Affairs: Natal earlier this year, the hon the Administrator referred to the tight monetary restrictions placed on Natal by the hon the Minister of Finance. He also referred to the strong ties that have been forged between the Treasury and Natal on financial matters, and I quote:

Section 4A of the Exchequer and Audit Act, Act 66 of 1975, states inter alia that the four provinces will receive an annual payment as a direct charge on the State Revenue Account. This amount shall be equal to the difference between the expenditure authorised by a general law and the revenue accruing to such accounts.

In comparing the provincial taxation and the departmental receipts of the four provinces against the allocation received in terms of section 4A of the Exchequer and Audit Act for the financial year ending 31 March 1989, Natal is supposed to raise 14,9% from its resources as against the 11,2% of the Orange Free State, 5,1% of the Cape of Good Hope and 8,3% of the Transvaal.

*From this I infer that there is a disparity between the contributions that the provinces have to generate from their own resources within the provinces. The implementation of the Constitution Act of the RSA has had far-reaching direct as well as indirect consequences for the finances of the provinces.

In the past, the allocation in respect of current expenditure was calculated on the basis of a formula as contained in the Government’s White Paper on the report of the Schumann Commission. However, the amount calculated was adjusted if the Minister of Finance believed that such an adjustment was justified by the prevailing circumstances relating to State finances. As far as the capital appropriation is concerned, the funds requested by the provinces were related to the guideline amount of the allocation in respect of capital expenditure laid down for the whole Government sector. Its priority vis-à-vis other Government expenditure is determined by the Priorities Committee.

†Although Natal remains South Africa’s smallest province, the population growth has been such that it accommodates some 20% of all South Africans today. According to the 1980 census figure there were more than eight Blacks for every White person, approximately 51 Blacks for every Coloured person and about seven Blacks for every Asian person in Natal-KwaZulu. These ratios are expected to change to approximately 13 Blacks for every White person, 70 Blacks for every Coloured person and 10 Blacks for every Asian person in Natal-KwaZulu by the year 2010. As in the case of the total population of Natal-KwaZulu, by the year 2010 the economically active Black population is expected to constitute almost 84% of the total economically active population of the region. For every estimated economically active White male in Natal-KwaZulu in 1980 there were an estimated seven economically active Black males. This ratio is expected to change to 1:10 by the year 2010.

The expected 2,2-fold increase in the number of economically active Blacks between 1980 and 2010 is indicative of the magnitude of the task ahead to accommodate the potential number of Blacks who would wish to partake in the economic activity of our province in the future.

A number of issues of strategic importance for decision-making in Natal-KwaZulu emerge from the preceding discussion on the population of Natal-KwaZulu to the year 2010.

Firstly, the composition of the population of this region is expected to change quite dramatically due to the differences in natural increase of the various population groups.

Secondly, and of equal importance, the expected changes in the structure of the various population groups, dominated by the expected increase in numbers among Blacks in the 0-14 and 15-64 age groups, will make heavy demands on resource allocation in the provision of housing, education and training, the creation of employment opportunities and a wide spectrum of socio-economic services.

Of the six national states, most urban development has taken place in KwaZulu. By 1982, 740 000 people had been settled in 92 000 housing units in 25 towns in KwaZulu, 208 000 more people and 15 700 more houses than in 1978.

The number of Black workers who reside in a national state but travel to and from work in the RSA every day increased from 290 800 in 1976 to over 700 000 in 1982. With almost 400 000 in 1982, KwaZulu accounted for more than half the total number of commuters of the six self-governing states. These men and women lived in towns such as KwaMashu, Umlazi, Ezakheni, Madadeni and Osizweni and worked in Durban, Pinetown, and the Pietermaritzburg industrial complex, and in the growth-points of Newcastle and Richards Bay. Of these commuters, 71% travelled by bus.

*The point I want to make is that the process of urbanisation with which we are faced here, and which I have described, is irreversible, and that with the back-to-the-wall situation we have here in Natal, it obviously imposes a heavy financial burden on the province.

A second aspect to which I have referred is the demography and the change it is undergoing in respect of the province of Natal and KwaZulu, and the third point I have mentioned is the disparity that already exists between the internal sources of revenue.

Time will not allow me to cover everything, but if we were to look, for example, at the hospital standards in our province and to compare them with those of other provinces, we would find that there was a considerable difference.

I want to make a strong plea that we should get away from historical data and values and adopt acceptable norms which we can determine by way of negotiation. I urge the hon the Administrator and the Executive Committee to make representations to the central Government to conduct an in-depth inquiry into the fiscal allocations to the province, not only for the financing of current accounts, but also for the financing of capital programmes.

Mr Chairman, at the start of this meeting this morning the hon the Administrator said in his opening remarks with regard to the passing away of the late Mr Jacobs, the hon member for Alra Park, that the lower standards in the community could have been one of the causes of the conflict and that poor Mr Jacobs could have been the victim of this.

Taking that as an admission by a very hon colleague and Administrator and by various hon members of Parliament, today’s historic meeting has proved that people of colour can sit together and represent the interests of all and govern for the security, prosperity and social upliftment of people of colour. Therefore, the fear that the White community had and which was expressed even at the time of the referendum and the election, must surely be proved unfounded by today’s historic meeting, which shows that people of colour want to sit and govern for the betterment of society and South Africa as a whole.

Therefore, any further extension of the own affairs structures or the demise of certain other existing structures will only represent a retrospective step in our development programme and in those developments that are taking place.

Before I come to one or two additional matters which I intend to raise, I should like to make an appeal today that this Committee should understand that the existing institutions and structures that we already have, have been tried, tested and proved successful, and have yielded a great financial saving, and one of these is the Development and Services Board.

In case hon members are not aware of this, I should like to tell them that the Development and Services Board and similar institutions in South Africa have played a tremendous role in uplifting the underprivileged or rural communities. In seeking the ideology of apartheid and separate development, we are trying to destroy or close down those structures which have done a tremendous amount of work, and it is rumoured—and I want to issue a warning in this regard—that those structures will be divided into own affairs departments. I wish to state very categorically to the hon the Administrator and the Executive Council and to hon members of this Committee that it will be a sad day when one breaks down these institutions and further extends the own affairs concept, because in our view own affairs will not last and the tricameral system must change because we have proved today that we can sit together without all the other structures and still govern South Africa. Therefore I want to make this appeal here today.

The Development and Services Board was established in 1941 with the coming into effect of Ordinance 20 of 1941 and was subsequently changed from the Local Health Commission in 1974.

I want hon members to look at the hard facts. At the present moment we have 57 development areas and 33 regulated areas. That makes a total of 90 of these areas which the Development Services Board controls. In some cases they provide hard services and in others, soft services. By “hard services” I mean that they develop roads and other items of infrastructure.

They are dealing with a population of 95 044 people—that is excluding the KwaZulu area— and what is envisaged is that when this body goes, in which regard legislation has already been passed by Parliament granting it an extension of time, one will once again break up those communities into separate White, Coloured and Indian own affairs components. Then one will have own affairs components dictating to people—I do not know to whom; possibly it will be to the MECs— and telling them to get things done, or they might set up their own structures.

However, this department has done a wonderful piece of work at a great financial saving. In fact, I want to stress here today that it will cost us more to run those same areas once we start to divide up that existing structure into the various own affairs departments. As it is the own affairs administrations cannot obtain suitable staff to man certain of the departments. Why, when we are moving away from this sort of administration and when we are sitting here today at this historic meeting, should we have to get rid of an existing structure?

There are 91 785 sq km of land in the rural areas which still has to be developed; land on which Blacks, Whites, Coloureds and Indians and everyone else is living. That was the whole idea of the coming into being of the Development and Services Board and the Local Health Commission, namely to develop the rural areas. Today they have done a wonderful job, resulting in far greater savings. One can go and ask in many of these areas which are controlled by the Development and Services Board: The answer will be they want the Development and Services Board.

I believe it is sad that we in South Africa are moving away for an ideology, while we have 91 000 sq km of rural area where people are living and need help. I plead that we should stop separate development right now. A decision has to be taken. I and the party I belong to have stated continuously that the Development and Services Board and the other bodies should not go. There are many reasons why many people wanted the divisional council and other bodies to go. However, as far as the Development and Services Board is concerned, it is on record that since the time the establishment of Regional Services Councils was discussed, we have made our stand clear that Natal has a different type of problem to the rural platteland and other areas in South Africa. A case has been made out and therefore the Development and Services Board was not mentioned specifically.

I also believe that they will not be able to raise the standard of living of the people in the area to that of these 90 development-regulated areas with an estimated expenditure of R26 million. We need more money. There is a hue and cry concerning the undeveloped areas. Many cities and towns still experience problems. However, many of my colleagues have adequately covered the disparity problems which the urban areas are experiencing.

In the little time I have, I wish to raise another issue. Ordinance No 39 of 1969, which provides that certain facilities such as cemeteries and other facilities be provided by local authorities, does not provide for crematoriums. Local authorities are unable to provide for such facilities because of the lack of suitable land. Today housing, schools and sportsfields require the best areas of a particular town. Therefore it will become extremely difficult in the future for large cemeteries to exist. I plead here today that Ordinance No 39 of 1969 be amended to allow for local authorities to provide crematoriums, in view of the problems we are going to face in the future.

The other issue I want to raise here is that of environmental pollution. It is sad that South Africa gives much publicity to this matter, and yet our pollution and waste problem is not taken as seriously as it is in many other smaller countries. Here I want to make a plea that while Acts of Parliament do provide for a certain measure of control, the provinces will have to play a greater role and not allow environmental pollution to take place to the extent it does in South Africa today. Much money is wasted on campaigns. We need to enforce stricter measures to ensure that man does not destroy himself by destroying his environment. One can imagine the magnitude of the problem we are facing when one considers that a city has two million tons of waste which wastes taxpayers’ money to clear up and in the whole of South Africa we have something like 15 million tons of all types of waste. This costs something like R400 to R1 000 per ton and has to be recycled at a cost of something like R30 per ton. If one goes around the cities of South Africa, one can see this. I believe there is a need to take severe measures, because we want good cities, clean towns and a good environment. [Time expired]

Mr Chairman, it is with great pleasure that I follow the hon member for Red Hill. I think the hon member made a very constructive speech here this afternoon, in particular as far as the Development and Services Board is concerned. I think they have done a tremendous job for the underprivileged here in Natal.

The 30th June 1986 was a very sad day for Natal, when this Provincial Council came to an end. When one looks back after almost two years, one can see that we took the right decision by creating this new dispensation for South Africa. Today we witness that we can talk, not about each other, but facing each other across the floor and debating with one another to try and sort out the problems of this country.

At this stage I would just like to pay tribute to the hon the Administrator and members of the Executive Committee for the difficult task they had this last year in trying to run the province efficiently with funds which were not sufficient. I believe that the people of Natal can be very proud of our Executive Committee. I would also like to pay a special tribute to our provincial secretary, Mr Roy Hindell, and his officials for the excellent work they have done over the last year.

My thanks also go to our statutory bodies which we sometimes forget, and I am thinking now of the Natal Parks Board, its director and his staff. I want to thank them very much indeed for a tremendous job in keeping such a good name for the Natal Parks Board which is recognised throughout the world.

To our Sharks Board, the director and deputy-directors, I express heartfelt thanks for the dangerous work these men do every day, guarding the shark-nets up and down the North and South Coast of Natal, installing nets, repairing them and checking them.

My thanks also go to Mr John Martin and Mr Willy Ferreira for helping us in Parliament with various questions. I thank them very much for that.

Coming to my address, I would like to refer to the hon member for Wentworth who, I believe, made a very constructive contribution to the debate today. He asked that the Government be brought closer to the people. I do not think there is anybody on this side of the House who will disagree with that. I believe it is up to us here in this Chamber tonight. I would like to hear hon members coming forward with suggestions which the Executive Committee can take to the Cabinet and the Government, as to what other powers we would like for this province, in order to have a more efficient administration for our people. I fully support that motion.

The hon member for Pinetown mentioned the issue of having secret meetings at which we ask the members of the Executive Committee certain questions about the province which are not made public. As far as I am concerned, we have no problem with that. We are not hiding anything from the public. I would endorse the sentiments expressed by the hon member of the Executive Committee when he said earlier today that we should have a longer period for debating the detail of the Budget in public, continuing doing what we do at the moment. In fact we must extend the time so that we can even ask written questions during the few days that we are sitting in the provincial council.

We saw headlines a few days ago—and I am sorry that some hon members from the PFP are not here… [Interjections.] There are only a few sitting there. Let me rather call them the Progressive Disinformation Party, because that is what they stand for. It is a disgrace that in the last few days we have seen headlines criticising the Government for spending R100 000 to bring people to this Chamber and to the other provinces. They are misleading the public with such statements and by calling this a farce. Is this a farce that we are having here today? Would hon members rather go back to the other three Chambers and debate there?

I just want to give hon members an example. When the Transvaal had a provincial system, it cost them R2,26 million. The figure for the Cape was R1,960 million. The figure for the Orange Free State was R980 000, and for Natal R700 000. These are merely estimates, but the total comes to R6,3 million. Now people want to tell me that the Government is wasting the taxpayers’ money! We are saving the taxpayer money with this system. The PFP does not want to hear that balderdash.

I would now like to come to something a little closer to home, namely the Addington Hospital in my constituency. If one walks into the casualty department of that hospital and walks through the corridors, one feels ashamed. Just a little bit of paint would make that place look a lot better. The walls are chipped. It is certainly not a good sight for any person. One could mistake the Addington Hospital for a factory if one visits someone there. I appeal to the Executive Council to try and revamp Addington. Let it look like a hospital. Let it look clean and healthy. Most people go there to be healed.

I would now like to come to the Parks Board. I mentioned earlier what a tremendous organisation that is. We are very privileged to have such an organisation in Natal. However, some of our parks are so old and dilapidated that I honestly feel ashamed to think that visitors from other provinces or overseas have to see this. Some people use the accommodation in the parks. I believe that we should launch a vigorous campaign and employ professional marketing people. I believe we should go out to businessmen and encourage them to invest money in the Parks Board. In return they can get holiday facilities for their particular companies over a certain period. I shall give hon members an example. Our bush camps are built like that at the present moment. Over a 10 or 15 year period that company will have the privilege of using that facility for a few weeks per year.

I also believe that we must look at our entrance fee structure and our bed cost per night. At the end of the day, we have to give our visitors a good holiday and good facilities. We cannot do that without money. Every effort should be made to collect money from big business. We should employ professional people to assist the Parks Board in upgrading the facilities in the different areas.

Mr Chairman, the remarks made by the hon member for Durban Point with regard to the PFP, are themselves balderdash. It seems that he and his party are aware of the fact that they are losing this debate. I note with interest that they have now called for reinforcements! The hon member for Turffontein and the hon member for East London City have joined us. It seems as if the NP is aware of the fact that they are not doing too well in this debate. They obviously need somebody to hold their hands. It reminds me of the old Nat policy of ‘safety in numbers’.

I want to identify myself fully with the sentiments expressed by the hon member for Pinetown and the hon member for Reservoir Hills with regard to the manner in which these provincial meetings have been set up. I say this directly to the hon member for Durban Point: The NP has placed an overemphasis on itself in terms of speaking time.

While the hon member for Pinetown was speaking, I noted with interest that the hon member Mr Redinger asked by way of an interjection, and I quote him, “Which is the majority party in Natal?” That in itself represents his naivety, for he was implying by way of this interjection that the NP is the majority party in Natal, and South Africa. I join the other hon members of this House today who have indicated quite clearly that the NP is far from being the majority group in Natal. Everything we have discussed today touches on this particular point.

Of course, we expect this from the NP. Because of their belief in and acceptance of the apartheid policy, they tend to forget that the Black community has a right to represent itself, and does not need—nor does it want—the NP, in particular, or anyone else for that matter, to represent it at any level, let alone at Parliamentary level. The sooner Black representation comes about at all levels, the better.

I was also intrigued by the opening comments made by the hon member for Umlazi who ensured, by what he said, that this debate today and tomorrow would not be without political provocation on all sides of the House. He set a strange tone for the debate. None of the parties present will let him down. However, one would expect a chairman of a standing committee of the province of Natal to be a little more circumspect in what he had to say. There is no doubt that today he has, in fact, established his credentials very clearly in the minds of all members of that committee. I believe that he has done his cause as chairman of that committee no good at all.

I also want to refer briefly to the fact that it is extremely noticeable that the Leader of the NP here in Natal, the hon the Minister of Home Affairs, is not present today; neither is the hon the Deputy Minister of Economic Affairs and Technology. He, too, is obviously a senior member of the party. I must ask whether their absence is indicative of the low level of importance that senior members of the NP place on this provincial debate, particularly when one realises that hon Ministers and hon Deputy Ministers from the other Houses are present here today.

I want to touch very briefly on a matter that the hon member for Durban Point mentioned, namely the fine work that the Natal Sharks Board is doing. Natal coastal cities and towns owe much of their status as premier holiday resorts in the country to the Natal Sharks Board. This is obvious to all members of this committee. I want to commend the Natal Sharks Board for their dedication to their task, and for their vigilance in assuring that all beaches on the Natal coast are safe for all. However, there are also other reasons why the Sharks Board deserves accolades— not least of all the extremely important role they played during the floods of September 1987. Many of its members risked their lives in order to save others, while they all worked long hours in assisting with flood relief. They deserve the highest accolades for their total involvement in assisting thousands of people who were affected by the worst natural disaster this country has seen.

I want to express the PFP’s gratitude to that particular board and the people involved, for their commitment to the preservation of life in all circumstances and to their deep concern for conservation.

Mr Chairman, I am following on my neighbour—I wish I could say my good neighbour—the hon member for Durban North. Listening to him and all his talk about our bringing in reinforcements and our believing in safety in numbers, I am sure anybody with only two other representatives in the House of Assembly in Natal must hanker after some safety in numbers! Unfortunately they will never have those numbers in Natal—neither in the House of Assembly, nor as regards the voters. The voters of Natal have shown that they reject what the PFP stands for. They did that very decisively less than a year ago.

I do not want to be unkind to my hon friend, but as far as his remarks pertaining to the Chairman of the Natal Standing Committee, the hon member for Umlazi, is concerned, if they were not so obscure, they would be decidedly objectionable. There are very few members of that standing committee and this committee who will not agree with me that that hon member acts as chairman in a very distinguished way and with great dignity. In fact, he is an asset to that committee.

I really do not want to waste my time, because I have constructive things that I want to say, but the last reference I would like to react to, is that the hon member chose to make a frivolous reference to the absence of the hon the Minister of Home Affairs. I do not think it was a serious question and therefore it does not warrant a serious response.

I have the honour to represent the coastal constituency which extends 140 kilometres along the Natal North Coast and includes the Natal Sharks Board headquarters. I should like to refer briefly to the financial situation of that organisation. Before doing so, however, I should like to pay tribute to the director of that board, Mrs Beulah Davis, and the board itself, as well as the staff, for the work which is being done by them in that organisation.

One point made by the hon member for Durban North with which I could agree was in respect of the fine work being done by the Sharks Board. However, what I think is perhaps more important is the very important work which they are now doing on an on-going basis to protect the tremendously valuable tourism industry along the coast of Natal. In fact it has been calculated that on even a small section of the Natal North Coast that industry is worth something like R96 million per annum. I think that the figure for the rest of the coast, if calculated, would be a very big and very impressive figure.

What is also encouraging is that this is being done in a way which is sensitive to environmental concern. Here I should like to refer specifically to the appointment recently of a very capable young researcher to study the effects of the shark nets on dolphins and other coastal marine ecology. I should like to compliment the board on taking that step.

*As far as the finances of the Sharks Board are concerned, the following facts need to be noted. I do not wish to go into technical detail, but I do want to point out that for four years—and this is an appropriation committee—no additional funds were requested on the revised budget for that board. That was due to accurate budgeting and excellent financial control. The only exception in this regard was an unavoidable request arising from the Natal flood disaster and, of course, cases where general salary increases were granted as a result of central Government decisions.

Furthermore, a comparison between actual and budgeted expenditure reveals the following. In 1986 there was a variation of only ,053% on a budgeted amount of several million rands, and in 1987 this variation was approximately ,178%. In my view this is an outstanding achievement for any organisation. The increase in expenditure was also well controlled, and the increase in 1987-88 was just over 7% while it was 6,3% in 1988-89. In other words it was about half the inflation rate.

†These results have been achieved by way of very good management systems, and I have had the privilege of being taken through the establishment as well, where I have seen this first-hand. The result of these accounting procedures of the board is such that they can obtain immediate accurate cost data on any piece of equipment or any expenditure incurred by any particular officer, and the cost per beach, per station and per portion of coastline, through a comprehensive computer system which I believe must compare with the best in the world.

There are other systems which they use to encourage their staff to be competitive in terms of being economical, and the result of that is also a very high standard of maintenance, which is in effect preventative maintenance, which has enabled the board to maintain a fleet of vehicles at a cost per kilometre 30% cheaper than the rates specified by the Public Service.

In conclusion I would like to say that the Sharks Board and its staff are to be commended for the very careful way in which they handle taxpayers’ money. We as a committee should acknowledge what they are doing in this regard.

Mr Chairman, the Development and Services Board, commonly styled the Local Health Commission, was constituted by the Natal Provincial Council in terms of Ordinance No 20 of 1941. By the year 1987 the board was the proclaimed local authority for 92 development and regulated areas.

A development area is a recognised urban area where normal township development is controlled. The board is responsible for the provision and maintenance of a wide range of local authority services, based mainly on health considerations. The primary objective is to uplift these areas to a level of self-sufficiency; either self-government at local authority level, or in cooperation with an independent local authority area, where this is viable and feasible.

Many of the development areas for which the board is responsible were placed under its jurisdiction because of the lack of basic health services and infrastructural development. The board has provided and is providing basic coverage in the field of essential services and at the same time the board receives a grant from the Provincial Revenue Account each year to assist in achieving this end.

In the past grants-in-aid have been paid to organisations on a rand-for-rand basis for capital projects. Sewage treatment works fall within the category of capital works. Two sewage treatment works have been planned for the South Coast. The first is to be situated at Park Rynie and is expected to serve this township as well as Ocean View, part of Umzinto North and eventually part of Scottsburgh.

The second is planned near Palm Beach and will treat the effluent from this area as well as Trafalgar and San Lameer. The works will be operated by the respective regional water services co-operations and are estimated to cost a total of about R3 million, to which the regional water board has agreed to make a capital contribution of R0,85 million.

The reason for raising this issue is to drive home the fact that monies for sewage works are made available from two sources by way of grants; namely the Provincial Revenue Account and, secondly, the Department of Waterworks. The Department of Waterworks gives an outright grant of one third of the total cost of a new sewage works, and the cost of the balance—that is two thirds of the cost—is made available in the form of a loan payable over 30 years.

An amount of R10,5 million was allocated for housing at Shakaskraal in 1986 by the former Minister of Local Government, Housing and Agriculture in the House of Delegates. What disturbs me is the fact that although some two years have elapsed, the housing project at Shakaskraal still remains in cold storage. The reason advanced by both the House of Delegates and the Development and Services Board is that no funds are available for sewage works which it is estimated will cost about R7 million. It boggles the mind that although the Development and Services Board has utilised funds from the sources I have already mentioned to sort out the problems in some areas, they have failed to do so in the case of Shakaskraal.

Since the Development and Services Board is one of the many arms of the provincial administration, I make an earnest appeal to the Executive Committee to make the grant-in-aid available to Shakaskraal, or alternatively, to apply to the Department of Waterworks. A sewage works at Shakaskraal will not only serve Shakaskraal but will also serve the Umhlali and the Ntete area.

The provincial administration is in charge of licensing, the collecting of revenue and the provision of other services to practically the whole of rural Natal. What beats me, however, is this; Why is it that the Department of National Health and Population Development should be in charge of health services for the rural areas? Whereas the province itself is the licensing authority, when it comes to motor registration, those people have to pay to the province. They know which area they are registered in. If they have a fine to pay, they must know where to pay. When it comes to health, however, it is the Department of National Health and Population Development that they have to approach.

The Department of National Health and Population Development has to be in charge of health services for the rural areas whereas the province itself is the licensing authority. When it comes to water registration those people have to pay the province. They do not know in which area they are registered. If they have a fine to pay they have to know where to pay it, but when it comes to health they have to look to the State health department.

The inspectors of the State health department are readily let loose on our people without any control. I say this because of the fact that these officials of the State health department give the traders a lot of problems in the rural areas, and they seem to have powers that are not checked. They also seem to usurp the powers of other departments. I have heard of cases where they go to traders and if, for example, it is a panel-beating shop they tell them: “You have to repair my car or otherwise your premises will not be passed.” If they are not given something to put in their pocket they are not passed. This seems to be a popular thing. Coming down to facts I must say I preferred the old system—and I am saying this from my own experience—where we had the Whites only and had no problems. If we gave them a cup of tea they were grateful. Today, however, we have our own people and they are the ones who are giving us problems. It is not anybody else.

I would like this situation to be rectified. It must be rectified. The Natal Provincial Administration are the ones who must rectify this particular problem since Natal falls under their area of jurisdiction.

I would like to raise one other issue here with regard to the change of usage of land. Next to developed areas one will find a number of farms. They are supposed to be farms but they are not really farms and people have been applying for change of usage. They have been finding difficulty in being granted change of usage and allowance has been made for this. I think we should try to allow those people who are within one kilometre radius of a town change of usage. That will not only solve our housing problem, but will also lessen the burden on the taxpayer of providing subsidised housing to the people, because when one finds private enterprise developing houses nobody goes to the State for a loan or even grumbles about it or the price of the house. Here is a willing-buyer-willing-seller basis and more of this should be allowed so that the burden on the State will be far less.

Mr Chairman, it is the tradition of this House or of this Chamber that the Administrator, whilst he deals with financial matters, constitutional matters and those particular departments which fall under his jurisdiction, does not enter into party political debate however attractive that might be from time to time. I propose to follow that tradition.

Every man in this House I believe has an ideal of the type of constitutional structure that he would like to see imposed at the regional and national level. We all have our ideals and we all have a vision of the type of structure we would like to see. However, if one is to make a contribution to the public life of this country—and I take it that all of us here are in that position—then one has to use the structure that is available in order to make that contribution, and whilst it is open to anybody to press for changes of that structure through the appropriate channel, as long as the structure is there either one uses it or one goes elsewhere. One is of course then not able to make a contribution.

If one is at the executive level within the structure at the level of the province the tool that I have to use as Administrator to make a contribution is the Executive Committee of Natal. We must bear in mind that we are in a reform era and that we are moving away from the rigidities of the past towards a goal—everyone has their own goals—but this era of reform I would suggest is a period where flexibility is required. I do not believe that one could get a better instrument to bring about the administration or the flexibility that is required than the Executive Committee over which I have the honour of presiding—the hon gentlemen on my right, representative as they are of all points of view of the majorities in the three Houses that are represented here. I would therefore like to reply to the criticism that came from a number of hon members of the fact that the Executive Committee is an appointed body. One has heard this before, but speaking for myself I have had some difficulty in following the logic of that criticism. I have some difficulty in seeing the difference in principle between an Executive Committee who achieve their office because they are nominated by the majority party that used to sit in the White provincial council—the caucus of the majority party—and accepting nomination to be appointed to the Executive Committee because of the view of that body and accepting appointment to the Executive Committee because one has the support of the majority caucus in any other chamber. These gentlemen are appointed by the hon the State President as has been said earlier.

They are not directly elected.

They may not be directly elected but they have the confidence of the majority caucus in each of the Chambers just as the previous Executive Committee over which I had the honour of presiding had the support of the majority caucus in the Provincial Council. I therefore have great difficulty in seeing any difference in principle between those two situations.

Another point I should like hon members to understand—and I rather gather that it is not understood universally here today—is that to secure a decision in the Executive Committee I, as the chairman, have to work towards a consensus. Now that requires tolerance, effort, hard work and a preparedness to try to accommodate the other man’s point of view if it is to be successful, bearing in mind, as I have said, that all three Chambers are represented on that Executive Committee. I should like to pay tribute to the members of the Natal Executive Committee, because in the two years that we have been there it has been very rare indeed that I have not been able to secure a consensus decision in that committee. I believe it says a lot for the good sense of the people concerned that one is able to say that.

I should like to comment, if I may, on some of the points made by the hon the Deputy Minister of Population Development, since he raised a number of points upon which I should like to feel that there is a complete understanding of our point of view.

The hon the Deputy Minister took exception to a comment made by my hon colleague Mr Miller in regard to his attitude towards local affairs committees, as we call them in this province. I read into what the hon the Deputy Minister said that he felt there was an element of unacceptable paternalism in what Mr Miller said. I should be very unhappy if that impression was allowed to persist, since nobody could survive in an Executive Committee composed as mine is if that were his viewpoint. I would like to impress upon the hon the Deputy Minister—and anybody else who may have gained that impression—that nothing could be further from the attitude of Mr Miller in that regard. Mr Miller has the closest association with local government of every kind in this province. I do not believe—and I have sat with both the present Executive Committee and the previous one—that there has been a member who has developed, through sheer hard work and effort, a closer association with local authorities of all shades of opinion and representative of all the communities than has Mr Miller. I would therefore be very unhappy if the hon the Deputy Minister were to go away from this Chamber with a view of what we in the Executive Committee represent in respect of our philosophy of government, which was not in fact the case.

I should like to say a word or two in regard to the question of group areas permits. The point was made by a number of speakers—it was emphasised by the hon member for Reservoir Hills— that if we were, as we have done, to refuse a permit, we were acting in some almost ungodly way. As I have said, we work—as does everybody else in this House—within a given structure, and the existence of group areas and the issuing of permits is part of the legislative structure. My Executive Committee has the task of issuing permits. We do not deal with permits capriciously. We deal with them with the greatest care and attention, because we know that it is a field which is extremely sensitive.

As hon members probably know, some powers are delegated to officials in that regard, but any of the difficult ones come up to the Executive Committee, and of course there is always an appeal to the Executive Committee in respect of a decision that people are dissatisfied with. We are required to adjudicate upon the issue or non-issue of a permit in terms of the legislation, and hon members will know that there are two provisions, two requirements within section 21, that we have to look at, and there are half a dozen or more other provisions that we are required to look at, and in terms of which we have to assess the granting or refusal of a permit. That is precisely what we do. We also consult widely amongst local authorities, members of Parliament and others. The result of all this is in the answers to the questions that we have given to questions put to us in the various Houses of Parliament. I think that few could quarrel with the fact that if one looks at the figures, 76% of the permit applications have been granted during the period under review, and of the 11 appeals that have come to us, nine were granted.

Therefore, bearing in mind the field within which we have to operate, and the requirements of the legislation which are mandatory upon us in the exercise of our judgment, as well as the fact that one has to achieve consensus in order to deal with matters of this kind, I think on analysis, a fair judgment would be that we have not acted unreasonably in that regard.

The hon the Deputy Minister also raised the question of beaches, and his difference of opinion with me in regard to the way in which the two isolated incidents that we have had in the field of persons obstructing the use of beaches by others have been dealt with. I felt that when Mr Miller was speaking on the question of beaches, there was not a complete understanding, either of our attitude or of the facts of the situation. Apart from the beaches of the cities of Durban and Richards Bay, that are dealt with under separate legislation and have nothing to do with my Administration, the beaches of Natal, as Mr Miller said, have never been closed. Therefore in respect of those beaches it is not a question of opening them; it is one of stating the simple fact that the Natal Provincial Administration has never closed them. That is still the position today. On one or two occasions, and unfortunately they have been highly publicised, some individuals have taken the law into their own hands. I do not wish to go into those details, save to deal with the points that the hon the Deputy Minister raised, namely that he felt that it would be better to make such an action a criminal offence. I felt, as he corrected indicated—such was my reply—that this should be dealt with as an infringement of one’s civil rights in terms of the ordinary law.

I realise that this is a difficult and sensitive field, but there are as many people saying that we have too many Acts on the Statute Book creating criminal offences, as there are those who believe that one is not adequately protected if one goes to the courts in terms of the civil law. I appreciate that there is soundness in what the hon the Deputy Minister says, namely that the ordinary person does not bother to go that far. That is, of course, perfectly true. However, there are many organisations in this country, as there are elsewhere in the world, that will espouse the cause of a person who believes that he has been injured in that regard, in the sense of assisting him to go to court if that has sufficient support amongst the general public. The hon the Deputy Minister is shaking his head. I accept that there may be a different point of view. I happen to hold the view that the one I have expressed is preferable in the long run.

I would then like to come to the other aspect of beaches which Mr Miller touched on. Whilst the beaches are open, and always have been, and anybody can go onto the beach and bathe or fish if he wishes, the difficulty arises in the back-up facilities behind the beach, and it is there that we have spent the bulk of the funds that have been given to us; expropriating land and developing the back-up facilities so that there are more places to which all communities can go. Mr Miller was perfectly correct when he said that the problem is that historically, and long before the Group Areas Act, the bulk of that land came into White hands. If one is to develop it as a public authority, then one is required to expropriate the land with the expenditure of public funds for all communities. This is precisely what my Administration has been doing and I am glad to say that recently we have had an indication that the Government will probably make additional funds available to us for that purpose.

Exactly the same position would apply if the land along the beaches happened to be owned by the Indian community or any other community. A similar expropriation and a similar expenditure of public funds would have to take place.

The other point I should like to touch on is the question of libraries. I was very appreciative of what hon members said in regard to the manner in which we have answered questions on these sensitive issues because I do not believe anyone could wish for fuller answers in respect of facts and details than the ones we have given in these sensitive fields. If one looks at the answers given in respect of libraries, what is the position?

Firstly, we do not subsidise libraries as such. We subsidise the erection of a building and we provide a supply of books. That is the extent of our responsibility. The libraries are run by the local authorities.

If hon members look at the answers we gave to the questions asked on this subject, they will find that by far the largest number of libraries in this province are open and that the overwhelming majority of people who deal with libraries are in those areas where the libraries are open. Hon members will also have seen that in respect of the minority of cases in which libraries serve a limited community, this is not done simply on a racial basis. There are half a dozen types of cases, and these cases have been enumerated in the answers given to hon members and so I shall not elaborate on them and give reasons as to why, in certain cases, a limited service is provided. Very often the building is simply too small to accommodate more than are served at the present time.

The principle accepted by the Executive Committee is perfectly clear. We take the view that we are a general affairs administration and consequently that we deal with all communities. It is very easy to state the principle but I believe there is a difference between stating a principle and adopting a strategy for its implementation. Moreover, when one is moving through a transition phase from one position to another, or a period of reform, one’s method of implementation when dealing with people is very often as important as, and very often more important than, the principle itself. In the two years that we have been in office as a general affairs Executive Committee I believe we have brought about a situation which does not lend itself to strong criticism when one considers that we have made so much progress within that short space of time that the majority of libraries serving the majority of people are available to all. I have no doubt that given time and the continued approach of my Executive Committee, the principle will ultimately be fully implemented.

I have dealt with permits and our approach to permits. I have dealt with those aspects of beaches which I wished to attempt to clarify, and I should like to touch finally on the question of Isipingo because there was strong criticism from the hon member who represents that constituency, both as to the attitude of my Administration towards his local authority and in regard to the question of Prospecton in particular.

The hon MEC Mr Miller, who deals with local government, has spent a full day with the local authority at Isipingo and two full afternoons with that council. I do not think any other member of the Executive Committee has spent as much time attempting to unravel the difficulties and to establish a relationship with a particular local authority.

As to Prospecton, hon members will recall that this concerned an application made by Isipingo to have Prospecton cut off from Amanzimtoti and included in the borough of Isipingo. The Executive Committee, as it was required to do, referred the matter to the Demarcation Board, which is an independent body with membership from both the White and Indian communities, and after that board had heard exhaustive evidence—senior counsel appeared before that board on behalf of both municipalities—a detailed recommendation was submitted to the Executive Committee of Natal.

The recommendation was that Prospecton should not be detached from Amanzimtoti and attached to Isipingo but that it should remain where it was. This was extensively canvassed within the Executive Committee and I do not believe that anyone who has read the report of the Demarcation Board could have come to any other conclusion.

Those are the matters I wish to deal with at this stage. I shall, of course, deal with the remainder of the debate later on in the proceedings.

Business interrupted.

Mr Chairman, it is customary on an occasion such as this to say that history is being made. This is indeed the case today, but there are different definitions of what history actually is. The historian Edward Gibbon said that history was little more than the register of the crimes, follies and misfortunes of mankind. In contrast to this there is the statement by Miguel de Cervantes which reads:

It is in this manner that I want to typify today and tomorrow’s historic meeting of this extended public committee, in the development of the new constitutional dispensation. Parliament has interrupted its business in Cape Town for these two important days to afford the standing committees of provincial affairs an opportunity to meet in the provincial capitals to give attention to the provincial estimates and other provincial matters. Here the past, the present and the future are indeed meeting, and history is being made in more ways than one.

Mr Chairman, I should like to welcome you and hon members of the committee to Bloemfontein and the Free State. I want to assure you of our sincere goodwill and sympathy toward all of you and through you, toward all inhabitants of the Free State and the other three provinces. I want to express the hope that as visitors, you will leave here with happy and pleasant memories of the Free State and its people. May today’s historic meeting, as in the words of Cervantes, preserve the memories of great deeds and act as evidence of the past to us. May it serve as an example and a teacher of the present, and may the warnings which it holds for the future not be overlooked by us—a warning that we have a great and responsible task.

With the phasing out of the elected provincial councils in 1986, a large sector of the public was erroneously under the impression that provincial government had been eliminated. This is not the case. A change in form has taken place in respect of provincial government, in the sense that provincial council members are no longer being elected, but that the elected members of Parliament are taking their place. The Provincial Government Act, 1986, in terms of which the then provincial councils were disbanded, in fact stabilised provincial government. Section 4 of that Act expressly provided that ordinances agreed to by the provincial councils, as well as subordinate legislation promulgated in terms thereof, would continue to apply. Section 14 of the Act also provides for the amendment of ordinances by means of proclamation which the Administrator may promulgate with the consent of a committee of Parliament.

Sir, hon members already have experience of the business of these committees; as a matter of fact, after this sitting of this committee a committee which is going to consider the amending ordinances for the Free State is going to meet. The fact that that committee, on the strength of a standing decision, will meet in public here in Bloemfontein so that the provincial legislative process can be carried out in the capital, is conclusive proof that provincial government, even as regards legislation, still exists.

In addition to the amending of ordinances, the said Act also confers the authority to promulgate proclamations concerning any matter which is entrusted to a province in terms of an Act of Parliament. This matter can be further supplemented by the State President. In order to encourage voter involvement and afford interested groups the opportunity to have a say in the provincial legislative process, the Act makes the advertising of particulars on legislation compulsory.

From the above it should be clear to hon members that the legislative process at provincial level is not falling away—although a provincial council no longer exists. However, that is not all the Provincial Government Act makes provision for. The post of Administrator, in whose name all executive actions of the province take place, is also being stabilised. According to the Act the Administrator, assisted by the other members of the Executive Committee, deals with all provincial matters. All powers which a province and its Executive Committee had in terms of legislation and which were not expressly withdrawn, continue to exist unchanged.

Section 15 of the Act creates a particular mechanism through which expression can be given to the Government’s declared policy of decentralisation and the devolution of power. According to this provision the State President may, as regards general affairs, entrust the implementation of any Act which vests powers in a Minister to an Administrator and his Executive Committee. Potentially this provision has moved and broadened the provincial government’s horizons, so that it is no longer limited to the matters which were entrusted to the provincial councils in the past.

There was no delay in the devolution of powers either. In 1986, shortly after the new provincial government came into effect on 1 July, a number of Acts devolved on the Administrator for implementation. Because development boards were also abolished on 1 July of the same year, the provinces had to take over that development role. For that reason in particular legislation dealing with Blacks, and specifically Black local authorities and other community and welfare functions, was added to the provinces’ sphere of responsibility.

†In the past the provincial budget was submitted to the provincial council by the Administrator of a province in his capacity as a representative of the central Government. Each province had a Provincial Revenue Fund and, in respect of that fund, the former provincial council of the province, in terms of its standing orders, appointed a sessional Committee on Public Accounts to report on the budget and to consider the report of the provincial auditor. Although the Provincial Revenue Fund fell away, provision has been made in section 82 of the Republic of South Africa Constitution Act, 1983, for a separate revenue account for each province as part of the State Revenue Fund.

Ever since 1987 committees of Parliament, constituted as far as possible to include MPs of the province concerned, have sat at the same time as the Standing Committee on Public Accounts to consider the provincial budgets. These committees perform the same function in respect of the provincial budgets as that performed by the aforementioned committee in respect of the State Revenue Fund as a whole. What is important in this regard is the fact that the budgets of the provinces have not purely and simply disappeared into the greater pool of the national budget, and that an element has been retained in constituting the provincial committees. What is more, the fact that we are meeting here in Bloemfontein today is proof of the Government’s intention of continuing provincial government.

The members of the Executive Committee and I welcome the meeting being held here, because it gives us the opportunity to report in public on the activities of the province and to explain for which services the funds, budgeted for the current financial year, will be utilised. We are thus looking forward to participating in the proceedings of the Committee.

If you will allow me, Mr Chairman, I would like to start by giving a review of the activities of the Provincial Administration in the various fields in which it is active. I will discuss these activities in the order in which they appear in the budget.

The general administration of the province falls under Vote 1, and includes, among other things, the following services: Central personnel management service, training, management advisory services, provisioning administration, law administration, law enforcement, office auxiliary services and special services.

The central personnel management services directorate is responsible for the normal personnel functions of the Administration, in other words, recruitment, selection, placement, promotion, maintenance and retirement. Apart from these functions the directorate also performs an important function in respect of liaison with staff and the settlement of disputes.

During a strike that occurred from 25 to 31 August 1987 at Pelonomi Hospital, the labour utilisation division, for instance, played a leading part in negotiations with the strike leaders in an attempt to settle the dispute. In view of the division’s role in this regard, it was also involved in identifying those people against whom action had to be taken and also in leading evidence at the subsequent trial for misconduct.

The division was directly involved in the establishment of works committees for Black staff in the various offices, hospitals and other components of the Administration in the Orange Free State. It assisted with the election of committees and, where possible, meetings were attended to inform workers of their conditions of service and to clear up difficulties.

With regard to housing for Black staff of the Administration, 747 applications for 100% housing loans were processed in the past year. On behalf of workers the division negotiates with local authorities to obtain erven and it also negotiates with financial institutions to make loans available to prospective home-owners. Workers are also assisted in selecting building plans and in making arrangements with building contractors in order to obtain the best benefits for the workers.

The training subdirectorate, which also functions under this directorate, promotes the administrative and functional training of employees. It functions in close co-operation with the Training Institute of the Commission for Administration and on its own, through authorised officials, presents certain courses and seminars of the Institute. Certain courses are already presented to Coloured and Black officials, but the subdirectorate plans to extend its service to include all courses and seminars for these population groups.

The establishment of the Administration was increased by 2 256 posts during this year. This is due mainly to the devolution of certain functions and the related transfer of posts from the Department of National Health and Population Development to the four provincial administrations. This brings the total establishment of the Administration to approximately 24 000.

The functions of the management advisory services directorate, consisting of the organisation and work study subdirectorate and the programming division, are aimed at promoting efficiency. In this regard the directorate has undertaken various investigations.

The community services study section has for the past year been involved in the devolution process of certain functions from the Department of Development Planning to the Provincial Administration, as well as the incorporation of the former development boards. This devolution required a total functional and establishment study which resulted in the investigation of the Chief Directorate of Community Services of this Administration in its entirety. Seven hundred posts were involved, of which the top level posts were evaluated by the Commission for Administration.

The hospital services study section is involved in the devolution of certain functions from the Department of National Health and Population Development to this Administration as from 1 April 1988. This devolution of functions resulted in an increase of 17,6% in the establishment of the hospital services branch. At present the devolved organisation is limited to the functions of the hospital services branch until such time as all functions will be integrated by means of a complete functional and establishment investigation. This section is presently also engaged in redesigning an organisational structure which will rationalise all the said functions.

For the past year the roads studies section has acted in an advisory capacity in the devolution of the function of state motor transport. This section made an advanced procedure and method study in this regard to prepare the Administration in case the function of state motor transport should finally be transferred from the Department of Transport. A further investigation in regard to a place of safety for Black children in need of care was also successfully completed.

The general provincial services studies section investigated the available accommodation in the H F Verwoerd and C R Swart Buildings. A restructuring of the various components in the said buildings was effected, with an increase in efficiency in respect of the functions. The organisational relocation and the implementation of the provisioning administration system (PAS) are presently being investigated and it is expected that the PAS will possibly be implemented in April 1989.

The mechanisation section investigated the establishment of a new financial management system (FMS) and is presently engaged in implementing the FMS in respect of devolved functions. For functions performed by the Provincial Administration, the FMS will be implemented from 1 April 1989. The hospital information component may shortly implement a computerised patient administration system with a laboratory system incorporated into it.

The programming division has for the past year been engaged in the maintenance of various computer systems. The new computerised library system is already 99% developed.

The law administration division is responsible for all law administration matters such as, for instance, amendment of ordinances, arrangements for the licensing of motor vehicles and control of horse racing.

The office auxiliary services division performs the normal auxiliary functions such as the registry service, typing services and telephone services for all components of the Administration. For interest’s sake I would like to mention that the switchboard of the H F Verwoerd and C R Swart buildings is presently manned by five units, handling 95 incoming and outgoing lines and 1 030 extensions. About 9 000 calls are handled daily. This does not include internal calls and outside calls made directly by officials.

An investigation showed that the system is overloaded and that provision will have to be made in the 1989-90 main estimates for a digital telephone control system. The proposed system will be able to handle about 2 000 extensions to meet future needs.

The special services subdirectorate is responsible for collecting information, developing strategies, developing and executing strategic communication programmes and providing security services to promote the Provincial Administration’s security preparedness.

*As regards Vote 2, “Hospitals and Public Health”, I should like to mention that various projects of importance were completed at the larger specialist hospitals during the past financial year. Owing to a lack of funds further needs, and specifically the purchase of certain medical equipment, had to remain in abeyance during that financial year. Not all funds made available in the additional appropriation for this purpose could be utilised, however, owing to a lack of time, and a part thereof had to be carried over.

However, I can mention that a new linear accelerator for the treatment of cancer patients was taken into use by the Pelonomi Hospital in the financial year. This resulted in patients from this institution no longer having to be transported to the National Hospital for such treatment.

The planning of the envisaged hospital with 620 beds for non-Whites in Welkom, as well as the hospital with 100 beds for Whites to replace the existing Voortrekker Hospital at Kroonstad, has been completed and depending on the availability of funds, building will hopefully start in the foreseeable future.

As regards rural hospitals, the erection of the Hoopstad Hospital is progressing satisfactorily and construction is expected to be completed in December 1988. The estimated erection costs will total approximately R5,5 million.

The planning for the envisaged new hospital at Bothaville has been completed and it is planned to start calling for tenders in the last quarter of this financial year. The construction will be completed in the 1991-92 financial year at an expected cost of approximately R7,018 million.

At present functional alterations, which involve extensive additions and considerable changes to existing buildings, are being made at the Reitz Hospital. This project is expected to be completed in December 1988 and the costs involved will total approximately R5,23 million.

Hon members will allow me on this occasion to mention the important health services that are rendered to needy inhabitants of the province by the 64 part-time district surgeons in the Orange Free State. I want to express the sincere appreciation of the Administration for this service.

The compensation and conditions of service of part-time district surgeons have already received special attention and I am grateful to announce that the Administration has found it possible to introduce considerable improvements in this regard. I have no doubt that this step will contribute to meeting the important needs of this group of medical practitioners.

The devolution of the health services which I have mentioned has obviously added a considerable component to the duties of the Hospital Services branch. As is to be expected, it has led to considerable administrative efforts and reorganisation.

In this regard I want to refer to primary health care which is rendered in the so-called section 30 areas. A section 30 area means an area in which, for the purposes of the Health Act, the Minister of National Health and Population Development is the local authority, in other words, the rural areas, and does not include areas like municipalities and local councils. A total of 103 nursing posts for the rendering of the said services have been transferred to the province. However, only 84 of these posts are at present filled.

School health services to Blacks is another service which has been transferred to the Administration. Of the 25 approved posts in respect of nurses received in this regard, only 12 are filled. However, real efforts are being made to fill the vacancies and expand the service.

School health services for Whites, with all staff and infrastructure, have been transferred to the Department of Health Services and Welfare: Administration of the House of Assembly, with effect from 1 April 1988.

In summary it can be said that in spite of factors such as a lack of funds and a shortage of staff, continued progress is taking place in the field of hospital and health services in this province.

Mr Chairman, there was probably not a single component of the Administration which was not affected in some way or other by the flood disaster of February and March of this year. Within a period of approximately one month more than the annual average rainfall was recorded in some regions. At one specific registration point, 1485 mm of rain was recorded and hon members will realise that this is approximately 1,5 metres.

When I therefore come to Vote 3, “Roads and Bridges”, hon members will understand that the ordinary estimates cannot make provision on their own for this tremendous damage which was caused to our road network. Repair costs are estimated at more than R48 million. We are therefore very grateful that the hon the Minister of Finance could announce that in the 1988-89 and 1989-90 budgets, provision would be made partially to meet the most essential needs.

Staff of the roads branch and the inspection services division and civil defence worked untiringly during the disaster to keep the most important routes safe and to open them to traffic as soon as possible, and work is still under way on secondary and tertiary roads. The assistance of advisory engineers and contractors was and is being used to make the road network serviceable again. The repair programmes will take at least 24 months before conditions will be the same as they were before the floods.

Although the normal activities of the Roads Branch were disrupted to a great extent, everything possible is being done to resume normal services. The programmes of construction units and contractors were delayed because they were withdrawn to undertake repair work and it was too wet to work on their own projects.

In accordance with existing policy the maximum possible amount of work is farmed out, ie allocated to the private sector for implementation. Further investigations in this regard are being undertaken by an independent consultant.

Under the leadership of the Commission for Administration a function adjustment programme is also being carried out by the Roads Branch to ensure that all functions performed by the branch are essential functions which must be performed by the authorities.

†Mr Chairman, Vote 4 makes provision for miscellaneous services which include, among other things, the environmental and nature conservation directorate, the public resorts subdirectorate, library and museum services and the Performing Arts Council of the Orange Free State, or Pacofs.

The environmental and nature conservation directorate was elevated in status during the past year when the subdirectorate became a directorate. The activities of the directorate are reflected in the objectives as contained in the Nature Conservation Ordinance and other laws relating to nature conservation and in guidelines provided by the International Union for the Conservation of Nature.

The ordinance stipulates that the directorate must ensure that indigenous plants and animals are not overexploited. The directorate must also launch projects to maintain nature reserves through regulations according to management programmes directed by active research and monitoring. Visitors to the reserves and the general public must furthermore be informed about the conservation of nature assets.

At both national and international level an increasing interest in the conservation of the environment and nature is developing because the survival of mankind is closely linked to such conservation. It is for this reason that the directorate is gradually becoming more involved in determining the environmental effects in respect of proposed development, such as the quarrying of stone and sand, the building of roads and assisting in the establishment of the guide plans as required by the Minister.

Interest groups advocating environmental conservation are increasing day by day and they look to the directorate for guidance and co-ordination. It is for this reason that a stage has now been reached where nature conservation scientists, environmental experts, nature conservationists and extension officers must have sufficient qualifications in order to guide the public with confidence.

A view of the future and its related problems entails the tremendous task of directing those who have an attitude of indifference to nature conservation towards sensible utilisation of nature resources. What is at stake here is the survival of some of the endangered plant and animal species, and therefore it may very soon be too late to protect endangered plants and animals if some land-owners and decision-makers do not realise now that prompt action is called for.

This province deems it very important to provide sufficient recreational facilities for all its inhabitants and the purpose of the public resorts subdirectorate is to establish and manage public recreational facilities. After the good rains of the season all resorts once again have enough water to continue with their activities. The Jim Fouché Holiday Resort has already become as popular with anglers and boat-owners as it was before the drought during which the resort was dependent on water from a borehole.

Good progress has already been made with the first phase of modernising the Maselspoort Holiday Resort. For the Willem Pretorius Game Resort modernisation of the restaurant and some of the older types of rondavels is being planned. The Hendrik Verwoerd Dam Resort, with its modern holiday units and panoramic view of the Hendrik Verwoerd Dam, is becoming increasingly popular with tourists and a welcome place to stay overnight for travellers on the north-south route.

At the end of 1987 the Philip Sanders Holiday Resort for Coloureds was opened to the public and this resort meets a great need among the Coloured community. This project of about R6,467 million includes holiday units, group quarters for sports or youth groups as well as recreational facilities such as a swimming pool and tennis courts. A restaurant, a recreation hall with a kitchen and a caravan park with the necessary washing and toilet facilities are also included in the project. Planning of further staff houses and recreational facilities is presently receiving attention.

Building of the first fully fledged recreation resort for Blacks in the Free State at the Allemanskraal Dam has progressed well. The project of about R5,97 million is expected to be completed by the end of 1989. Another recreation resort for Blacks at the Rustfontein Dam, which is presently in the planning stage, will be established at a cost of about R5,53 million.

In the Orange Free State sustained efforts are made to provide a more efficient library service to all inhabitants of the province because it is believed that functional and well-equipped libraries will contribute towards improving the quality of life and an informed community. Thus libraries are regarded as important instruments for promoting community development. The Administration therefore endeavours to provide proper library facilities to those communities which do not have such facilities yet because of historical and financial reasons.

In view of its development role in the province, the Provincial Administration is actively involved in the conservation of the Orange Free State’s cultural historical heritage. I doubt whether much in the field of conservation would be achieved in the Free State if the Administration did not make such a substantial contribution. Thus the Administration is involved in the maintenance and management of museums and as regards conservation in general, the Administration co-operates and liaises with other conservation bodies, interest groups and individuals.

Management of the National Afrikaans Literature Museum and Research Centre (NALM) is the most important task of the museum service in the Orange Free State. NALM is regarded in academic circles and among authors as an institution playing a key role, and increasingly able to play such a role, in the wider context of research on Afrikaans, supplying information on Afrikaans and promoting Afrikaans in general. In a multicultural South Africa this institution is increasingly regarded as particularly important for the future of Afrikaans. In order to play this key role properly, NALM nowadays increasingly and mainly concentrates on contemporary Afrikaans writers, especially with regard to honouring writers, displays, research, collection of manuscripts, liaison, etc.

*It is the task of the Chief Directorate Works to meet the accommodation and related needs of the Provincial Administration. This involves the acquisition, planning, development, maintenance, restoration and alienation of immovable property.

The Chief Directorate Works is at present also handling all the property matters of the Department of Education on an agency basis. The Chief Directorate Works is therefore dealing with the premises, with or without improvements, of approximately 1 300 individual registered properties in 74 towns and cities in the province. Of these properties more than 900 are used for education purposes, approximately 75 for hospital services, 75 for law enforcement, 55 for nature conservation, 50 for public libraries and 40 for the roads administration, whereas the rest are used for the other services rendered by the Administration.

The estimate of the chief directorate for capital projects, ie new buildings, totalled R32,494 million in the 1988-89 financial year in respect of 53 services for the Provincial Administration and R24,176 million in respect of 78 services for the Department of Education. These funds are provided under Vote 7. In this regard the most important project is a new hospital for Blacks at Welkom, for which R2,65 million has been made available for this financial year for the payment of the connection of municipal services and the relevant consultation fees to the private architects, engineers and quantity surveyors entrusted with the planning. Negotiations are still under way with the Treasury for the funds for the erection of the envisaged hospital. Other important services which are either already under way or which will be started in this financial year are extensions to the Pelonomi Hospital in Bloemfontein costing approximately R6 million, resort development at Maselspoort costing R800 000, new roads offices and stores at Trompsburg costing R519 000, a new library for Bethlehem costing R586 000 and various capital services for the Department of Education.

The chief directorate is also handling 189 minor works services in the 1988-89 financial year amounting to approximately R9 million for the Provincial Administration and 223 minor works services amounting to R7,745 million for the Department of Education. In addition to the minor works programme there are also approximately 5 000 services which are handled on a requisition basis. Furthermore there are many capital as well as minor works projects at present in different stages of planning, such as a new hospital at Bothaville and several libraries for Blacks in different centres, to mention but a few.

What is important in respect of the activities of the chief directorate of works is that as many as approximately 99% of all works are farmed out to the private sector. In the 1987-88 financial year, for example, in respect of capital projects of the Administration alone, a total amount of approximately R5,857 million was paid in private consultant’s fees, while contract work totalling approximately R22,151 million was allocated to private contractors. In the same year a total amount of approximately R5,615 million was paid out in private consultant’s fees in respect of capital projects for the Department of Education and capital contract work for the same department valued at approximately R21,254 million was performed by private contractors. The chief directorate of works is therefore making a major contribution to the building industry in the Free State and can justifiably be labelled the largest builder in the province.

†Vote 6 deals with community services. The concept of community services is a totally new term in the Provincial Administration. The chief directorate of community services was established on 1 February 1986 on the recommendation of the Commission for Administration.

It represents an amalgamation of the functions of the former local government branch of the Administration and the functions of the former Southern Free State and Oranje-Vaal Development Boards which were transferred to the Province, as well as the functions of the Free State Regional Office of the former Department of Constitutional Development and Planning. In addition certain functions of the new Department of Development Planning were transferred to the Administration on 1 February 1987. Investigations presently undertaken under the direction of the Commission for Administration imply further drastic changes and the addition of even more functions.

At present the chief directorate of community services functions with six separate directorates and one subdirectorate at head office and three regional offices. I do not want to bore hon members with details. Some of my colleagues in the Executive Committee will supply them with more details about certain aspects. I trust that they will be able to show hon members that in a fairly short time we have already achieved much, of which we are really proud.

I deem it important to give an indication of the clients to whom the chief directorate of community services as a whole must render services. These are: 77 White local authorities; 18 White smallholdings committees; 70 Black local authorities; 4 Black towns that do not yet have their own local authorities—these will be established in the near future; 11 Coloured management committees; 1 Indian group area at Harrismith has already been proclaimed. Three others in Bloemfontein and the Goldfields are presently being considered. One Regional Services Council (Bloemarea) has been functioning since 1 July 1987. The Demarcation Board has completed its investigations in respect of three further regional services councils and the rest of the province will be completed before the end of the year.

Furthermore, there are about 84 000 Black pensioners and receivers of various allowances who are served at about 240 pay points in the province. Social workers are working among a total Black community of 1,4 million people in the Province, plus nearly 300 000 in the Botshabelo area, where we act as an agent of the Qwaqwa government. The more or less 150 000 inhabitants of the Thaba Nchu area of Bophuthatswana and the approximately 165 000 mine-workers housed in compounds and hostels on mining property presently are not our responsibility.

I would also like to sketch to hon members the background of the position in respect of Black urban communities. These local authorities are autonomous and should be able to function independently. The fact, however, is that these communities represent the most backward communities in society. Owing to large-scale unemployment and a low family income in the case of 70% or more of the inhabitants, most community members’ ability to pay is so low that the local authority cannot generate sufficient revenue.

Most of the local authorities, and then I mean almost all of them, or 69 out of 74, cannot even render the most essential services to their communities from their income and also cannot afford the necessary equipment for these services.

They cannot even afford the salaries of the most essential key personnel. This situation puts a lot of pressure on the advice, guidance and physical assistance that community services must render. There are just not enough staff around with sufficient expertise and skills to be everywhere and do everything that has to be done in time. On the other hand it must be borne in mind that these local authorities should be guided towards full self-reliance as soon as possible. However, there should be no illusions whatsoever about the matter. The task with which we are busy will take decades and not just a few years.

It is of the utmost importance that fixed formulas be worked out to ensure that physical and financial assistance given to these communities and local authorities is not undertaken in a random or hit-or-miss manner, but is properly controlled and checked in accordance with each community’s ability to pay. What is of equal importance is that there should be uniformity among the provinces in this matter, otherwise the communities in one province may be favoured above or disadvantaged in respect of those of another province. Budgets in respect of specific services will also have to be adapted accordingly. Just as important as the aforementioned is the fact that local authorities and individuals within the communities will have to accept that the ability of people and institutions to pay constitutes certain limitations. In respect of services such as water, electricity and sewerage, as well as streets and pavements, and last but not least, housing, certain limitations will have to be accepted.

The concept of an upper town, a middle town and a downtown with sophisticated services on the one hand and only rudimentary services on the other, is a concept that is and remains a reality. Developers, building contractors and financial institutions too will inevitably have to lower their aim to meet the large percentage of underprivileged people among the communities in this province with a view to the peace and stability of each community.

Mr Chairman, I ask for an understanding of our particular situation. It is the knowledge that one understands that will motivate us towards positive action that will benefit all communities in the province and lead to a better quality of life.

*Finally, Mr Chairman, Vote 8 makes provision only for occupational differentiation.

I have tried to give hon members a short review of the activities of this Administration. I accept that when it is measured against the amount of work or the estimates of larger provinces or some Government departments, it may look modest. This may be so, but this does not detract from the love and the loyalty which this Administration has for our province and its inhabitants. Nor does it detract from the loyalty and dedication with which we will continue to perform our task in future.

We will never pretend that the Free State is better than other provinces, because we are aware of our limitations, shortcomings and weaknesses. We are aware of the many blessings we have received. If we are accused of being different, we do not apologise for that. If there is one reason why the Free State may be different to the other regions of our country, I believe it is because there are so few of us compared with other provinces. That is why we realise that we need one another. In this spirit in which we need, accept and recognise one another, we are trying to serve the province. Mr Chairman, I hope that you will accept us in that spirit.

Mr Chairman, unfortunately I have a problem with my vocal chords, and I hope you will bear with me. At the outset let me say that it is with shock and disappointment that I learned this morning of the death of the hon member for Alra Park, Mr Peter Jacobs. I came to know him as a dedicated Christian. No wonder he was on his way back from a church service when someone took his life in a very dastardly fashion. Mr Chairman, I want to express our sincere sympathy to you, the House of Representatives and his family, and we pray for comfort and strength in this adversity.

It is a pleasure to speak after the hon the Administrator. He is no stranger to politics. As far back as 1968 he became MP for Bethlehem. For many years, first as MPC and later for five years as MEC, it was my pleasure to work with him.

During this time I came to know Mr Louis Botha as a person of great enthusiasm, with a tremendous zest for work, joie de vivre and appreciation for the fine things of life. I think that the Free State is singularly fortunate in having the services of a Louis Botha. He also referred to the fact that this was an historic event, because not only is it the first sitting of the Extended Public Committee on Provincial Affairs, but it is also the first joint sitting in which joint debating is taking place. This is also the first opportunity that hon members will have to speak from the podium. We are all contributing to the shaping of history.

Although this is a great honour, particularly for me as the first parliamentary speaker, let me add at once that this also entails responsibilities. Our responsibility here today entails an effort on our part always to maintain the dignity of Parliament, even here in Bloemfontein. My appeal therefore is that we do not take this opportunity to engage in petty politics or to score a few political points against one another. Let us rather take the opportunity to serve our province, the Free State, with its proud past, to the best of our ability. Here we truly have an opportunity to give a demonstration of co-operation and consensus.

I should also like to eliminate all misunderstandings about the composition of this Committee. This is not merely an extension of Parliament; it is, in point of fact, Parliament itself. This sitting is not replacing the old provincial councils, but creating an opportunity for us to discuss the interests of the Free State, and even more than that, the interests of our voters. Every representative can speak about the needs of his constituency, but he also has an opportunity to discuss the finer aspects of his constituency. At this meeting order is maintained as it would normally be maintained during any Parliamentary sitting, because here we are discussing general affairs.

In contrast, of course, there is the joint committee on provincial affairs, or in other words the standing committee, as it was previously known, constituted in terms of the Constitution and consisting of 23 members of all Houses and parties in Parliament. I think that all the opposition parties are in a favourable position in the Free State, because all the seats in the Free State are held either by the NP or by the members of the LP in the House of Representatives.

I understand that there are also complaints about the time allocated to various people and parties. The discussion of this Vote normally takes place under Development Planning. I checked and clarified this aspect with the hon the Chief Whip of Parliament, and at the beginning of the year, when mention was made of the amount of time that should be allocated to each party, the CP only requested 15 minutes. It now has 30 minutes, twice the amount of time it asked for. At that stage the PFP did not ask for any time at all, and the PFP now has 20 minutes. Let us tell each other at the outset that this is not where one should argue about petty aspects such as this. If we wanted to allocate debating time on the basis of representation, I am afraid that only two groups would get a turn to speak.

I now want to come back to the joint committee, however. Firstly I want to thank all the members of the joint committee very sincerely for the wonderful co-operation we have had in that committee. To you, Mr Chairman, to hon members of the House of Representatives and to hon members of the House of Delegates and the House of Assembly, I can say today, with a great sense of gratitude and acclamation, that there has been cordial and sincere co-operation in the standing committee for the province. Thus far we have succeeded in having virtually all our resolutions adopted unanimously, and in the discussion of this Vote a motion was moved by the House of Representatives which was unanimously agreed to.

This resolution was not adopted lightly, however. It was adopted with a great sense of responsibility, also in the light of the appeal made by the State President at the opening of Parliament that we should save and cut down on expenditure with a view to putting the country’s economy back on its feet. I quote the standing committee resolution:

This resolution was adopted with a great sense of responsibility.

In the time at my disposal I am going to try to give hon members a bit of background information about the reasons for adopting this resolution. Let me say at once that we are not bewailing the fact that the resolution was adopted or that we obtained too little money. That is not the case. I should like to clarify the needs of the Free State, however. The initial needs, as estimated by the administration itself, totalled an amount of R943,174 million. Only R850,411 million was made available, however, for the financing of all the services of the province.

Included in the R850 million was R28 million which had to be employed by the province for services which had devolved to the province and for which provision had not been made in the initial amount. In other words, the amount allocated to the Free State was R121 million less than the initial estimate. In regard to this amount a saving has to be effected somewhere. I do not want to occupy our members with all the ramifications, but there are two major problem areas that we shall have to examine. Firstly we have a problem in regard to hospitals and public health. The Free State is known for the good services it furnishes in this field. The second question involves roads and bridges. One of my other colleagues will have more to say about roads and bridges, but I shall nevertheless be coming back to that aspect.

The initial amount requested for hospitals was R424,482 million. An amount of R342,463 million was allocated. This included R21 million for health services which devolved to the province from the Department of National Health and Population Development and which had to be financed from this amount.

Order! I am sorry, but the hon member’s time has expired.

Mr Chairman, I rise merely to afford the hon member an opportunity to complete his speech.

Mr Chairman, I thank the hon member for Schweizer-Reneke for the opportunity he has given me to complete my speech. Consequently there was a saving of R103 million which had to be effected, or virtually 25% of the amount requested. The province did not shy away from this. Plans were immediately made. The result of this reduction was that essential posts could not be filled. This led to a saving of approximately R10 million. There was also essential equipment that had to be purchased. I have here a long list which the MEC made available to me. The amount involved is R15,535 million which was saved because equipment could not be purchased or replaced.

There is also a tremendous shortage in ambulance services. Whilst I am talking about ambulance services, permit to digress slightly for a moment. In September of last year the hon member for Pinetown asked a question about ambulance services in Parliament. Both the question and the reply could very easily have left a wrong impression, and that is what happened. There are certain people in Parliament whose sole aim it is to create dissatisfaction amongst our people. Let me concede at once that the ambulance services in the Free State are not perfect. Let us examine the picture for the past few years, however. The hospital services branch took over that service from the local authorities on 1 October 1981, and at that stage there were only 31 municipalities that had some or other form of ambulance service available, and the equipment was of extremely poor quality. Since the takeover in 1981, 73 fully equipped ambulances, which meet the improved specifications, have been purchased. Last year we intended purchasing a further 35 ambulances, but since there was over-expenditure to the tune of R10 million on hospital services, that was not possible. The result was that in the long run only one extra ambulance was purchased. In this year’s budget, however, provision is being made for the purchasing of a further 45 ambulances. This appears in Vote No 2, Item G on page 55, where it is included in the amount of R8 368 million for ambulance services.

I also want to mention another interesting aspect. With the takeover of the ambulance services in the 1982-83 financial year, the total costs involved in running the ambulance service amounted to only R985 000. For the present financial year the estimated amount is R2,782 million. So there was also a tremendous improvement in ambulance services. In the meantime significant progress is also being made in the training of staff for the ambulance services.

Another area in which great savings had to be effected was that of medicines and district surgeon services. I hope the MEC entrusted with hospital services will furnish us with more particulars. Hon members of Parliament, however, are aware of the fact that the various provincial administrations’ decision that prescriptions for district surgeons would no longer be dispensed by pharmacies in areas where hospital pharmacies existed led to a great rumpus. Numerous deputations of pharmacists came to see me. When the MEC gives us the figures, however, hon members will appreciate the reason underlying the need for such a saving. What is also interesting is that in September of last year an article appeared in the medical journal about the so-called high costs of hospital services in the Free State. Apart from the fact that the information in this article was completely incorrect—I hope this matter will be put right—it also created a completely distorted picture. Let us look at the actual position in regard to the cost of hospital services in the Free State. There are only three academic hospitals in Bloemfontein, and it is no secret that academic hospitals are much more expensive than other hospitals. The Director of Hospital Services recently told me that it was estimated that the present cost per bed per day at the academic hospitals was R250. If someone becomes seriously ill, regardless of the illness, that person occupies that expensive bed in an academic hospital. What is more, Bloemfontein’s hospitals not only have to serve Bloemfontein, but also Botshabelo and other surrounding areas, the whole of the Western Transvaal and to a large extent also the Northern and North-Eastern Cape. As a result of these good services furnished by our hospital services, Free State hospital services have gained a tremendous reputation in the field of open-heart surgery and oncotherapy. More than 30% of all heart-bypass operations or open-heart surgery performed in the Free State are preformed on patients from other provinces. Approximately 40% of all oncotherapy administered in the Free State is administered to patients from other provinces. Nor is it any secret that these days a heart-bypass operation costs approximately R16 000. That is why, on this occasion, I want to make a very urgent appeal to the hon the Minister of Finance to bear these facts in mind when allocations are made to the Free State. We must obtain the funds to furnish this excellent service.

Unfortunately time is going to catch up with me, but I just want to refer briefly to roads. The other day I told someone who was opposed to toll roads that all he needed was to be made MEC entrusted with roads in the Free State for a period of five years. Then he would very quickly change his tune. The Free State is in a unique position in regard to its roads. Apart from the fact that this small province has no fewer than 48 000 kilometres of proclaimed roads, it is also in the unenviable position that it has no road construction material. Notwithstanding that, the Free State has succeeded in establishing and maintaining a sound road infrastructure. The old story about the Free State having the worst roads is a thing of the past. Here, too, the original amount requested was R156 million, while the amount allocated was R146 million. So there was already a shortage of R10 million.

The hon the Administrator referred to the floods, and in the future reference will probably be made to that again. The damage which it has been possible to determine so far, amounts to approximately R48 million, as the hon the Administrator said. The intention is to repair the damage in the next two financial years—in this financial year R30 million will be spent, and in the next financial year R18 million. Thus far, however, the Treasury has only voted R23 million for this purpose. This does not take into account the hidden damage, because one must realise that a great deal of the damage caused by such a flood only becomes discernible after a long period. Also in regard to the capital for the establishment of the infrastructure, the amount originally estimated was R38 million, while the amount allocated was R30 million. If only the R30 million in toto could be employed for new projects, the Free State would probably be able to do a great deal with it. Unfortunately the major portion of these funds has to be employed to continue with projects on which work has already commenced. Only two new projects could be announced this year, ie the hospital at Bothaville and the hospital at Welkom to which reference will probably be made at a later stage in the debate.

In conclusion I should like to take this opportunity of expressing my thanks and appreciation for what has been voted for my constituency in this budget. I want to thank the hon the Administrator and hon members of the Executive Committee for the funds they made available for the establishment of an intensive care unit at the hospital in Bethlehem. Apart from the fact that outstanding service is going to be rendered—we already have the specialist facilities—it is also going to effect a great saving in costs for the province, because whereas all patients needing intensive care previously had to come to Bloemfontein, all those living in the North-Eastern Free State can now be cared for in Bethlehem. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, permit me to associate myself with the hon member for Bethlehem’s words of sympathy for our deceased colleague, the hon member for Alra Park, Mr Peter Sam Jacobs. It can be said of him that he fought for his people and did not hesitate to expose injustice, regardless of the personal consequences. I think his death furnishes proof of the violent times in which we in Parliament have to do our jobs. Our heartfelt sympathy goes out to his wife and children.

It is a singular privilege for me to speak in this Committee under your chairmanship today. For you, Mr Chairman—who have been on the South African political scene for so long, yet also outside its top authoritative structure—I think it is a happy day that it is in the Free State, which over the years has supposedly been verkramp, where the hon the Chairman of the House of Representatives, a Coloured person from the Free State, can act as presiding officer and make history, in spite of the complaint from our friends about a mixed government. [Interjections.] We wish the hon the Chairman of House everything of the best, and may he exercise his authority over all hon members in this Committee, whether they be members of the LP or the CP.

We find it strange to be sitting here today, when a controversy is raging outside merely because this Committee and the three other Committees are sitting. Looking around at this Committee today, I see people ranging from the hon member of the executive committee, Mr Mokotjo, MEC, to the hon member for Southern Free State; from the hon member for Lichtenburg to the hon member for Actonville, all participating in the proceedings of this Committee under the chairmanship of the Chairman of the House of Representatives. There are people who say that Parliament is wasting R100 000 on the three extended public committees’ sitting today. That was in yesterday’s newspaper headlines. Some people are even holding meetings about this this evening. Before I come to the budget, I want to make it clear that we are here to stay, and people should get used to that idea. A lily-white South Africa is no longer viable.

We are gathered here after probably one of the biggest floods the Free State has ever experienced. As the hon the Administrator himself said earlier, while one was flying over the farmlands, the cities and the towns, they looked like islands, surrounded by a sea of water. One came to realise that all that water must have threatened people’s lives at some or other stage. With their large farming community, one could say that the Free Staters must continually have prayed for their survival.

Let us also say today, however, that hon members of the LP are deeply concerned about the amount made available to the Free State for the maintenance and development of its infrastructure. I think it was the hon member for Bethlehem who expressed his concern about this earlier and motivated it. Under normal circumstances this would have been bad enough, but surely extraordinary circumstances are prevailing in the Free State. Let us take as an example the province’s roads which have suffered severe damage. The hon the Administrator himself said today that this amount had increased, according to the published budget, in comparison with that of last year. It would be correct to say, however, that it actually decreased. I want to venture to say today that adequate provision has not been made for protecting existing roads and infrastructure against the ravages of time. Any businessman would tell one that in doing so one begins to create problems for oneself. The Treasury must make more funds available for this purpose. We must remember that the damage to Free State roads during the flood disaster ran to approximately R48 million. In other words, it would cost R48 million to restore the roads to what they were before the flood disaster. If the central Government does not provide the full amount, the province itself will be responsible for the repair work. We would then find ourselves lagging behind even further. Valuable projects, such as the construction of access roads to Black and Coloured areas—which in my opinion has already been accepted as policy by the province— would then be moved further down on the priority list. We cannot afford that. The hon the Administrator informed us this morning that the Treasury had made an amount available for repair work. Our question is whether enough money has been made available. The Free State cannot allow a state of affairs in which insufficient money has been made available.

If I say that Free State roads have been hard hit by the floods, I mean it. If we exclude the N1, which falls under the hon the Minister of Transport Affairs, we find that the bridge structures of two of our bridges have been badly damaged. That is not all. The ground slope approaches to more than 100 bridges have been badly damaged. People have become accustomed to the standard of our roads. After the floods this is quite another matter. Free State motorists still travel along these roads at the same speed. At some stage this is going to give rise to serious accidents. Today I want to appeal to motorists to travel more slowly, for the sake of their own safety, since their roads have been badly damaged after the floods.

I also want to say that we do not yet know what the actual damage to Free State roads has been, as the hon member for Bethlehem correctly mentioned earlier. We shall still have to see how much actual damage has been done to our tarred primary routes as the Free State sun and cold winter weather take their toll. The effects of the floods are going to be felt for a long time. Even as we are gathered here, there are many people who are travelling on poor roads and who are cut off from their properties. I want to suggest that when the province gets the additional funds for the flood damage from the Treasury it should, over and above its own staff, also make use of consultants and contractors from other provinces, as has been done in the past. Even with the present repair work, there is a great shortage of people with heavy vehicles to transport the gravel. This is a strange phenomenon in a country in which people continue to complain that they do not have jobs; a country in which people are always complaining that the large transport undertakings have brought about their demise.

Order! I regret having to interrupt the hon member, but his time has expired.

Mr Chairman, I rise merely to afford the hon member an opportunity to complete his speech.

I thank the hon member for Opkoms.

These people must come to the fore, because there is work for them to do in the Free State.

I also want to speak about Vote No 2—“Hospitals and Public Health”. This budget only reflects the financial needs for proper administration, and frequently we find that the political undertones are concealed to such an extent that they are difficult to detect. As far as the political principles underlying the Vote are concerned, the own and general affairs concept is also applicable here. Certain hospitals in the Free State are designated as own affairs hospitals, and consequently the policy of those hospitals is determined by the House of Assembly. The implication of this is that those hospitals are for the exclusive use of the White group. Permit me to say that we in the LP have nothing against the fact that people want to reserve certain facilities for themselves. That can only happen, however, if there are sufficient facilities for everyone. If not, all facilities should be open to all races. The majority of hospitals, however, are designated as general affairs. The three major hospitals are the Pelonomi Hospital, the Universitas Hospital and the National Hospital. Although hospitals in predominantly White areas have been established for the use of Whites, we are delighted to hear that the Executive Committee has apparently accepted the policy that no one needing medical attention, for example in an emergency, may be turned away from any hospital. That is a very sound policy. In regard to the policy of the Administration: House of Representatives, I want to remind hon members of the fact that when the reclassification of health service functions was announced by the hon the Minister of National Health on 24 June 1986, the hon the Minister of Health Services and Welfare (Representatives) made it clear that all health centres falling under his department were open to everyone. To date, however, no health centre in a Coloured area has been transferred to the Department of Health Services and Welfare. For the most part, Coloureds and Blacks are treated at the same hospital, and consequently such hospitals are regarded as general affairs.

In this regard I also want to refer to the question of ambulance services. Here, too, let me mention that they are run on a non-racial basis—at least that is what I am told—and that patients, regardless of race or colour, are transported in the same ambulances. Such an improvement on the previous situation, when that service was still run by local authorities and was consequently dealt with on a segregated basis, is gratifying. I must also link up with what the hon the Administrator said earlier, however, about the possible establishment of a hospital for Black people at Welkom. The hon the Administrator said that when the necessary funds were available, they would proceed with the project. Welkom has a large Black population and inadequate medical facilities. At present the administration is renting beds from the Ernest Oppenheimer Hospital in an attempt to solve the problem. The Ernest Oppenheimer Hospital, as hon members know, belongs to Anglo American. The province must launch the project as quickly as possible, and the necessary funding simply must be provided.

Lastly I want to refer to Vote No 4—“Library Services”. The whole question relating to library services is still in the proverbial melting pot. From what I have been able to ascertain, the services for Whites and Coloureds are going to become own affairs. Let us look at the historical position of library services. As far as Whites are concerned, the policy was that the province was responsible for all construction costs, including the provision of relevant supplies such as books and facilities. As far as Black people and Coloureds are concerned, a one-off subsidy covering only 50% of the total construction costs was paid. In regard to Blacks the present policy is that the provinces accept responsibility for the full construction costs of libraries. The salaries of Black library staff are also fully subsidised. As far as Coloureds are concerned, I gather that the policy is still being considered. I nevertheless want to make one apposite remark, and that is that teaching people to read is part of the programme aimed at uplifting people in the country with a view to allowing them to complete their schooling. I therefore wish to request that the programme be expedited so that our people can be given an opportunity for a better future by way of improving their reading skills.

Mr Chairman, may I also on behalf of this joint committee express our heartfelt sympathy for the bereaved family of Mr P S Jacobs. We pray that God will grant his family the courage and strength to bear this sad loss.

Today is indeed a historical day in the Orange Free State, especially in that all of us are gathered here to deliberate matters affecting our communities. At the outset I would like to share the following with the hon the Administrator of the Orange Free State. The Orange Free State was recently hit by severe floods and we have taken note of the sufferings of the people. We also shared their pains. We have done everything possible from our side to contribute towards the flood disaster fund. We pray that these people will reach normality in their lives again.

*I should also like to convey our thanks to the Police and the Defence Force for the role they played in this regard.

†There are approximately 1 million Indians in South Africa. The majority of them reside in the metropolitan towns and areas, especially in Natal and the Transvaal. The fact that the hon the Administrator and his people recommended that Indians be allowed into the Orange Free State, has been a great and bold step in the history of South Africa. We congratulate you for that and wish to say that the members of our community will reciprocate in the best possible way to prove that this decision has been correct.

I also want to use this opportunity to thank my colleague, the hon Chairman, as well as my other colleagues in the House of Representatives for their support in welcoming the Indians to the Free State. The majority of the Indian community in South Africa are loyal South African citizens who do not believe in chicken runs and who are prepared to work hard, not only to support their families, but also to make sure that this contributes towards South Africa as a whole. Therefore, the entry of Indians into the Orange Free State was a matter of necessity so that they too could contribute towards the development of this province. The Free State should be open to all population groups of South Africa. We will then find advancement in the economic development of this area. There is a nuclear business settlement in Bloemfontein and other surrounding towns. Opportunities should be provided to expand business activities within the confines of other smaller towns to contribute towards the economic life of such towns. In doing so, loyalties will be strengthened and relationships maintained for the promotion of good community life.

A large number of Indians would also like to carry out farming activities. These people should be given the opportunity to work lands which lie fallow in the Orange Free State. This will counteract unemployment and encourage farmers to be more productive.

As far as housing is concerned, it will be greatly appreciated if the hon the Administrator and his team will assist the Administration: House of Delegates in expediting this important development. At present Indian families who have moved into the Orange Free State are living in very cramped conditions.

The hon the Minister, however, has located three areas of which at least one will be redeveloped for residential purposes. There are about 50 families living in the Orange Free State, but there are no hospital facilities. If a person gets sick, he or she has to travel to the Transvaal for treatment. Only in emergencies are Indians allowed to be treated in hospitals in the Free State. Something needs to be done urgently to help these families. If a person of Indian origin dies, there are no burial facilities available. The dead person in fact has to be taken to the Transvaal. I want to request that immediate attention be given to this aspect.

I also want to refer to schooling facilities. It is necessary that Indian children have these facilities made available to them.

Mr Chairman, in regard to the death of Mr P S Jacobs of Alra Park, on behalf of the CP I should like to express my sympathy to his next of kin, and also to his colleagues in the House of Representatives.

The hon the Administrator mentioned the fact that the Free State was not a large province as far as surface area was concerned, and that it did not have a large budget either. I should like to tell the hon the Administrator that he need not feel self-conscious about that. Owing to the role it has played in the history of South Africa, and the role it is playing at the moment, and also owing to the outstanding calibre and strength of character of its people, the Free State is an asset we can all be proud of. For that reason I believe—as do other hon members of the CP—that the proceedings which are taking place here today, and which are an expression of the constitutional dispensation in South Africa, do not constitute an ideal situation for South Africa or for the Free State.

On this occasion we want to place on record our extreme dissatisfaction, and we wish to do so for three main reasons. In the first place these proceedings are representative of the constitutional dispensation in South Africa, ie power-sharing. The CP rejects that with all the force at its command, and it does so for the simple reason that there is no example in the world of powersharing being successfully implemented. Since the time of the Roman Empire, and even prior to that, it has not been possible, with any success, to force various peoples into one governmental structure. At the beginning of this century the Whites of South Africa refused to be incorporated in the British Empire as a whole. At that time they opposed this with every means at their command. Likewise the Roman Empire met its end, but this took several centuries of violence and bloodshed until provision was ultimately made for sound nationalism and sovereign ethnic government. That is how present-day Europe came into being. For this reason we want to make it very clear that power-sharing can only work if the participating peoples agree to this and continue to do so. If, at some later stage, they no longer agree, there is no way to get out of the situation. The CP therefore wants to make it very clear that it is opposed to all forms of power-sharing. In the ranks of the White generals there is also increasing opposition to power-sharing, and we are going to make it our job to see to it that the majority of Whites are opposed to it. We do not mind about those who want to engage in power-sharing. If there are peoples in South Africa who want to do that, amalgamating their political power and their territories, they are free to do so. The Whites and the CP, however, state expressly that they are not in favour of that.

Secondly we want to express our displeasure at the proceedings, because we completely reject the statement that this is a broadening of the democratic base. There was a provincial council here in the Free State, and the representatives of the people were elected by the people. The executive committee came from their ranks, and that committee was subject to the scrutiny of the representatives of the people at full sittings of the provincial council, as frequently as was necessary throughout the year. This has now given way to an executive committee which is appointed, and for 480 minutes a part of Parliament now convenes in the Free State to examine the business of the Executive Committee. The voting does not take place here, however, but in Cape Town. For this reason we reject the statement that this meeting constitutes a broadening of the democratic base. What it is, in fact, is a narrowing of the democratic base. Whites, who had democracy, no longer have it—in fact there is no longer any democracy for anyone. Everyone’s democracy has been curtailed.

Thirdly we record our displeasure because, in the politics of South Africa, opposition parties are going to be reduced to irrelevancy. Without the Whips of the opposition parties having been consulted, we have been confronted with the time now being made available to us. Of the 480 minutes available during these two days, the hon the Administrator and members of the executive committee receive a quarter of the time, ie 120 minutes. The NP, which is one of the parties forming the Government in South Africa, and which obtained 93 000 votes in the Free State, receives 150 minutes in which to speak. One asks oneself whether the Government does not have any confidence in the Executive Committee and therefore has to give one of the governing parties 150 minutes to support the Executive Committee. The House of Representatives, which obtained 6 193 votes in the Free State, and which also had two uncontested seats, is given 100 minutes. The LP, which is also one of the elements of the Government, is probably going to get the lion’s share of those 100 minutes. The House of Delegates, which obtained no votes in the Free State, is given 40 minutes. The CP, however, which obtained virtually 61 000 votes in the Free State, gets only 30 minutes.

But that is not true. How many seats do you have?

We obtained 61 000 votes, while the NP obtained 93 000. However, that is the last time the NP will be obtaining a majority of votes or seats in the Free State. Next time the CP will obtain the majority in the Free State. The CP is definitely going to be the majority party in the Free State. We, however, get only 30 minutes, which means that the opposition parties in the House of Assembly—I am including the PFP’s 20 minutes—are being granted only 10% of the overall time. A democracy cannot function in this way, because the governing parties sit here for the sole purpose of defending the Executive Committee. The opposition parties are, in point of fact, the parties which get down to brass tacks and scrutinise the steps taken by the Executive Committee and the government. The time of the opposition parties, however, is reduced to 10% of the overall time. If opposition parties do not come into their own, democracy definitely cannot function. For that reason the CP finds itself in the unfortunate position of having no other effective way of expressing its displeasure at the whole affair than to inform hon members that today the CP will no longer be participating in the proceedings. Hon members will only see us here again tomorrow.

Mr Chairman, you will understand that for me, as an ardent Free Stater, it is a great privilege to participate in this historic debate. We are here in Bloemfontein to discuss the Orange Free State’s budget, but also to demonstrate how consensus democracy works in South Africa.

Sir, you have seen a headstrong party boycotting the proceedings here—how its members demonstrated here and walked out of the Chamber. That is a party which does not see its way clear to putting forward its views in a committee such as this. It simply waves aside the proceedings and leaves. That is also how they run away from the realities in South Africa. I want to examine this in more detail, even though they are not present here this afternoon. They are not prepared to listen to the counter-arguments that we raise here this afternoon. They are running away because they do not want to hear with what arguments theirs are going to be countered. We shall settle scores with them elsewhere on a suitable occasion.

Sir, I am saying that we are here to demonstrate to our people in the Free State how consensus democracy works. Agreement was reached amongst the majority parties behind closed doors, and we approved the budget. It is true that the National Party and the Labour Party fundamentally disagree with each other—not only as far as the principles underlying their policies are concerned, but also ideologically and philosophically. We do not merely pat each other on the back, Sir; we come right out with it when we disagree with one another. The important point, however, is that we want the system to work. It is in the interests of our province and of our own people that the standing committee should succeed in performing its functions. We are Free Staters, Sir. We seek points of agreement rather than points of difference. We demonstrate this to our people, and being able to do so here in Bloemfontein today is a great moment for us.

I now come to the role of the minority parties. I want to devote as little attention to this as possible, because the brazenness of the demonstration we have just witnessed really goes against the grain. Normally they do not say much in the standing committees, but they are vociferous when they have to appear in public. They normally seek conflict, Sir. They look for as many points of disagreement as possible and then they exploit them. Actually this is a Free State own affair, as the hon member for Bethlehem has said, because only the NP and the LP have seats in this province.

In spite of the absence of the hon member for Lichtenburg, I want to react to a few things he said. He is the one who said that he was opposed to this consensus democracy and that he wanted to smash it to smithereens. He did not want to work at building it up; he wanted to break it down. They are not builders; they are demolishes and destroyers. He is the deputy leader of the party, but instead of telling us what his party’s policy embodies for the Free State, they are holding a protest meeting in this city of ours this evening. I hope he has the courage to say at that meeting what his party is going to do with the more than 2 million South Sothos in the Free State. There are 400 000 Whites in the Free State. I shall content myself with furnishing the figures relating to only those two population groups. His party’s policy is majority occupation. We in the Free State want to know what his party is going to do with those 1,7 million South Sothos who, according to the CP’s policy, have to be deported from the Free State. Where will they go? Are they going to be deported to Qwaqwa? Is the Free State part of that party’s “Boerestaat” concept? If that party wishes to move those people to Qwaqwa, what is it going to do with them there?

The CP states that they economically want to relocate the Black people and the other people of colour living in their so-called “Boerestate”. The hon member has probably not read any of the development reports on Qwaqwa. That small self-governing state does not have the economic capacity to provide work even to the people living there at present—let alone the 1,7 million other South Sothos which that party wants to relocate. If that is what it wants to do, does the CP expect the rest of us in the Free State to be satisfied with the development and the creation of job opportunities taking place in Qwaqwa?

No, Sir, these hon members who are opposed to the system and are merely bent on destruction must tell us this evening what their intentions are as far as the Free State is concerned. The Free Staters are entitled to know in which direction a party wants to take them. The CP boast so readily of the fact—the hon member for Lichtenburg emphasised it here once again—that they are going to win the House of Assembly election in the Free State next time round. We would like to know what they intend to do if that should happen. We want to know what they are going to do with us in this province—I am referring to the Whites, the Coloureds and the Blacks, and also the handful of Indians now living here. We want to know what is in store for us. The hon member for Lichtenburg has an obligation to tell us.

The NP says that there will always be Black people in the Free State. Together we shall have to seek acceptable solutions whereby they can also have a political voice in the Free State. Their solutions must be acceptable to the Black people, or else the system will not work. What is important, however, is that they should also be acceptable to the Whites, the Coloureds and the Indians. They cannot only be acceptable to one group; they must also be acceptable to the other groups. That is why our hon State President said that we would again go to the White electorate, by way of a referendum, before any changes were made to the constitutional model in South Africa, and have the relevant proposals either accepted or rejected. Sir, the NP lays down the following conditions: There must not be any domination in the coming dispensation. One of the conditions that we, as Whites, impose is that in the imminent new system there should be a guarantee that the civilised values we advocate will be maintained.

In conclusion I want to say that we Free Staters— the Whites, Coloureds, Blacks and the small handful of Indians here—want development to take place in our province. We also seek peaceful coexistence. Our people’s interests come first, and we are working for those interests. We do not have time for petty politics in this debate, Sir. With these words I gladly support the budget.

Mr Chairman, on this historic occasion it is a privilege and a pleasure for me to speak in support of the Vote. For me, as a Free Stater, it is always a pleasure to be able to put the case for people in the Free State.

Last year, during the discussion of this same Vote in Cape Town, I spoke about relations. I referred to the sound relations built up in recent years between the Coloureds and the Whites in the Free State. I want to appeal to the hon member for Lichtenburg to read that speech of mine in last year’s Hansard so that he can also see the other side of the picture in regard to relations between Whites and non-Whites in the Free State. Sir, what the hon member for Lichtenburg did here today was a blot on the name of every CP supporter in the Free State. We Free Staters are a small group of people in a small province, and in my view co-operation between Whites and non-Whites is essential.

For me, as a Free Stater, it is of cardinal importance that we give priority to the Free State’s interests. I truly believe that members of the NP are engaged in reform, even though I cannot agree with them that they are moving in the right direction. I do not find the idea of groups acceptable. As a Free Stater, however, my first priority is my constituency and my people. I want to point out that I am not only speaking of Coloureds; I am including the other population groups, particularly the Blacks.

The other day I asked one of the young members in my constituency what he expected of a member of Parliament. He said: “An MP is there to deliver the goodies.” He said that an MP who could not deliver the goods did not belong in Parliament, because he was not a representative of his people. That is why we in the Free State must work together, in spite of our political differences and the fact that historically we are lagging behind in various fields. As a result of the fact that we are lagging behind historically, we must move towards working together for the sake of the Free State. I am the representative of the Western Free State constituency which starts at Sasolburg, stretches all along the N1 up to Bloemfontein, and also along the Vaal River up to Boshoff. Historically we lag behind in the Western Free state, and for that reason I specifically want to speak today about the needs and shortcomings we experience there.

As an MP I deal with our people each and every day. People talk. They ask for two things in particular: Housing and job opportunities. In 1985 the hon the Minister of Local Government, Housing and Works in the House of Representatives addressed a public meeting in Welkom. The first question was: “Sir, we have heard about all the politics and the federal structure advocated by the LP, but what about the job opportunities and housing?” I think the Orange Free State has done its share as far as job creation is concerned. I therefore want to thank the hon the Administrator and his team for the assistance granted to us with the job creation projects and the funds that were voted.

Today, however, I specifically want to speak about Vote no 2. This Vote is of cardinal importance to my constituency and especially to Kroonstad, particularly as far as the central laundries are concerned. Three quarters of the bread-winners in Brentpark, the Coloured residential area, work in the central laundries. At the central laundries news travels very fast, and that is why I have taken the trouble to examine the position of these people. As the MP and representative of these people I would be neglecting my duty if I did not ask to have the fixed salary scales of the central laundries increased. We are grateful for the loans granted to the province for housing, etc. What happens in practice, however, is that people negotiate loans for housing—I cannot blame them for that, because the opportunity is there— but the average income group earns between R200 and R450 per month, and approximately half the salaries of those people are deducted for payments on their houses, in spite of the subsidy. In the first five years, until furniture is bought and the costs involved in owning a new home have been bridged, those people have a difficult time of it. The first question is how one can augment one’s income. The second step is to approach one’s MP and to speak about the matter. I am a member of the Standing Committee on Finance, and I realise what shortcomings there are in the State’s budget and how little money is available, but in my view my people come first.

In looking at the report of the province, I see that productivity was maintained in spite of a shortage of manpower. I now ask myself: If my people have been productive and have not been guilty of stone-throwing, burning down houses or boycotts, like Dr Hartzenberg and the CPs, should the hon the Administrator and his team not have a look at adjusting these sliding scales, which have been pegged, and granting salary adjustments to help the people at the central laundries. As I have said, we are grateful for the home loans which have been granted. This has helped to such an extent that the management committee of Brentpark, Kroonstad, has not had to renegotiate loans for housing this year and build houses with State funds.

This brings me to the Roads and Bridges Vote. That department is also one of the departments in the Western Free State in which many of my people work. The Roads Department of the Free State does good work, but as a result of the low salaries the people earn—between R200 and R450 per month—we have the same problem here too. I should like the hon the Administrator and his team to look into the salary scales of the workers. I am speaking in particular about the Black workers, including my Coloured brethren, but also about the Whites. Everyone is included in the increase of this salary-scale package which I am advocating today.

If I look at Vote no 2, “Hospitals and Public Health”, I see that an amount of R120 000 under “Public Health” is ascribed to burials for the indigent. I live in a very poor constituency, and through our committee for the aged I encounter instances, each and every day, in which money is needed for the burial of people whose identities are unknown. They are people who have been living there for years, but who have no families. They are simply drifters. I should like the money voted for this increase in the Vote to be made more freely available for the Coloured people, particularly in Parys, Vredefort and Winburg. To a lesser extent this also applies to the other towns.

I would be neglecting my duty if, as far as district surgeon services are concerned, I did not lodge a complaint against the district surgeon of Kroonstad. One man cannot treat between 150 and 300 people every Monday morning from 08h00 to 10h00.

Order! Unfortunately the hon member’s time has expired.

Mr Chairman, I rise merely to afford the hon member an opportunity to complete his speech.

Thank you, Sir. I should like to ask for one of two things to happen in Kroonstad. Either the district surgeon there must receive additional assistance or he must resign. If he does not get some assistance, he must be removed from that post, because we repeatedly receive complaints about the treatment our people receive there. The poor doctor’s workload is too much of a burden, and the result is that he cannot keep his temper under control. I should like to make an appeal to have that matter examined, because in that situation those people are vulnerable. People who are ill have to stand and wait from 07h00 to 10h00, only to hear that they have to come back again the next day. I should like us to examine the possibility of appointing additional doctors.

To me it is a question of the needs of my people. Since my time has expired, however, I merely want to make one final appeal. At a later stage in the debate I hope to have ten minutes in which to continue putting the case for my Western Free State constituency. To conclude, let me first make an appeal to the hon the Administrator— since so much has been said about ambulance services—for an ambulance service at Bronville until such time as the new hospital has been constructed. Our problem there is that during weekends, from Friday to Sunday evening, things are a bit chaotic there. With all the stabbings, etc, an ambulance is needed, because people are not always prepared to transport others. The SA Police—there is a police station—object ever so slightly when they have to transport people in the police pick-up.

I now want to make an appeal for some other arrangements to be made at the hospital itself so that an ambulance can be made available. I have spoken to the young policemen at the police station in Bronville, and they say that they would be prepared, in their free time or during office hours, to get someone to man the ambulance. I have not yet taken the matter up with the SAP, but I want to ask the hon the Administrator today to investigate this matter.

Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure for me to speak after the hon member for Western Free State. In a serious speech he lodged a plea for certain aspects concerning his constituency, to which I think the hon the Administrator and the MECs will reply.

In the time at my disposal I should like to focus the attention of the Committee on the library service of the Free State Provincial Administration. I want to begin by saying that it is interesting that on 1 February of this year, exactly 40 years ago, the Free State Provincial Administration accepted responsibility for providing library services to the inhabitants of the Orange Free State. In many respects, therefore, 1948 was an historic year. On 1 February 1948 Dr S H Pellisier, who at the time had just retired as director of education in the Free State, was appointed as the first full-time library organiser in the Free State. Today the Subdirectorate: Library Services consists of a central organisation and three regional libraries, ie in Bloemfontein, Bethlehem and Kroonstad. In total, assistance is granted to 357 libraries, including school libraries. For this comprehensive task provision is made for an amount of R5,241 million in the budget under discussion, an amount which represents an increase of R672 000 on the amount for the previous year, chiefly for salary adjustments.

For a long time now libraries have ceased to be places from which one merely borrowed books for leisure reading. In modern-day society the public library has become a centre which also has to provide for the information and research needs of the community. Knowledge and information are indispensable to the development of a community. Through the gathering and dissemination of knowledge and information the public library furnishes an indispensable service to the community which it serves. In this connection the Free State’s library service has rendered an indispensable service to the Free State. In congratulating it today on its fortieth anniversary, I should like to express the hope that the service will persevere in gathering knowledge and information, which is indispensable to the development of all our communities, and also in distributing this knowledge and information throughout our province.

I also want to make a friendly appeal to the hon the Administrator and the Executive Committee: Where possible, could consideration be given to establishing a public library in the southern suburbs of Bloemfontein? This is a long-felt need, and I am sure that the Executive Committee would have the co-operation of the city council of Bloemfontein for this purpose.

A singular characteristic of the provincial library service is its school library service. The Free State is the only province which furnishes a library service to schools, this service being rendered to White schools on an agency basis. In other provinces the library service rendered to schools is undertaken by the respective Departments of Education. The question is whether the Own Affairs Administration: House of Assembly will, in time, take over this function in the Free State or whether the status quo is going to be maintained. The provision of a library service to White schools is, of course, a comprehensive function, particularly if one bears in mind that library material is made available to 211 school libraries. One welcomes the arrangement in terms of which there is close co-operation between the educationists on the one hand and the library staff on the other when it comes to providing library material, particularly in regard to the selection of the material and the expert guidance that is given in the school library service.

It is also necessary for this Committee to take note of the fact that at present the library service is in the process of implementing a computerised library system. One will realise how essential a computerised library system was if one bears in mind that at present the service has to deal with more than 3 million items which are issued to 350 libraries and are circulated amongst these libraries, and that so far records have been kept by way of hand-written index cards that have had to be filed. It is not merely in regard to stocktaking that the computer has proved to be indispensable, but also in regard to all other library functions, for example the acquisition of new stock, retrieval, bibliographic and information services and, last but not least, administrative information. The result of a computerised library service for the Free State is that the end-users, ie members of the Free State public, will be benefited. They will gain the greatest benefit in that the material requested can be traced more rapidly, more intensive searches for sources of information will be possible and products such as reading lists can be furnished more quickly.

Today it is generally accepted that the electronic revolution taking place in the world at present is as extensive as the industrial revolution. This electronic revolution embodies the more rapid transfer from an industrial community, based on energy, to a computer community, based on information. Library science lends itself preeminently to the meaningful utilisation of the unique possibilities presented by computers. I wish the library service everything of the best with its computerised system. It is my conviction that the Free State will experience the full benefits of that system.

In conclusion I want to indicate the efforts made by the Free State Provincial Administration to provide public library services to communities which do not yet have such services. The hon the Administrator also referred to that aspect this morning. Since last year our province has accepted full responsibility for the erection of library buildings and the provision of library furniture in Black local authority areas in the Free State. Responsibility has also been accepted for the salaries of the staff in control of these libraries, and this is done by way of grants-in-aid to Black local authorities. We cannot overemphasise the need for library facilities in Black communities. Because of their limited sources of revenue, it is a major problem for a Black local authority to provide library buildings, library staff and library material. And that is the reason why, as yet, no library facilities exist in the majority of Black residential areas in our province. Last year’s decision by the Free State Executive Committee to accept responsibility for this should therefore be welcomed. A big and challenging task awaits the Executive Committee, and in particular the Subdirectorate: Library Services. In my opinion the Administrator and the Executive Committee deserve this Committee’s sincere appreciation for this essential step they are taking, and I should like to wish them everything of the best in implementing their resolution.

The Free State can be proud of its provincial library service which is celebrating its fortieth anniversary this year. For 40 years now valuable service has been rendered to Free Staters. The funds voted for this over a period of four decades represent money invested in the people of the province, and in my view, therefore, it is money well spent.

Mr Chairman, I want to associate myself with the condolences expressed by other hon members at the tragic passing away of our colleague who was the hon member for Alra Park. We in the People’s Party are praying that the family of our hon deceased colleague will have the courage to bear this irrevocable loss. I knew our late hon colleague as one of nature’s gentlemen, and his passing away is really tragic.

Mr Chairman, our presence here today as Indians in the Orange Free State is an indication of what the process of reform has done for South Africans. Not so long ago we, the Indian community, required a little piece of paper in order to traverse the roads of the Orange Free State when travelling from Natal to the Transvaal. Today, however, we are sitting here as MPs to discuss common problems.

It is unfortunate, though, that in our midst we have people who do not appreciate that the future of South Africa depends on our getting together around a conference table—as we are indeed doing today. My party does not believe in boycott politics. If we believed in boycott politics we would not have been here today. The progress we have made until today could not possibly have been achieved by means of boycott politics. It is unfortunate, therefore, that we had to see boycott politics manifest itself here this morning. The safe future of the people of South Africa is dependent upon our finding ourselves—as we are indeed doing today—around a conference table.

Unfortunately, in South Africa we have extremism on the left and we have extremism on the right. We saw a manifestation of right-wing extremism today. That is not how we want to see the future, however. We want a safe future in this beloved country of ours; we want a safe future for our children and our grandchildren. How are we going to find this safe future? We are not going to find it through extremism.

We will disagree with one another. Indeed, it is natural that we do. In the final analysis, however, we have to find one another around a conference table. There are those who advocate violence as a means to an end. Then there are those who advocate boycotts as a means to an end. My party, however, stands for a policy in terms of which we all have to get together and find one another for the good of our country. I want to say on behalf of my people that we are thankful to the hon the Administrator of the Orange Free State and those municipalities and town councils who have readily accepted members of my community in their midst. I particularly want to thank the people of Hennenman who have so readily made available the complex which formerly belonged to the White cement company and which we are now negotiating to take over for members of the Indian community. I also want to thank the municipality of Welkom whose officials welcomed us in their midst and who indicated that the Indian community would be made welcome in the beautiful town of Welkom. Then, of course, we also have to say thank you to the municipality or the town council of Bloemfontein for having allowed our people the right to live amongst them.

Mr Chairman, I just want to say a few things about hospital services. I know there is discrimination in the hospital services. If one were to look at the bed occupancy rate in the non-White section one would find that there was a 90% average occupancy, whereas according to the figures that are available to us the average occupancy rate in White sections of the hospitals all around the country is only 44%. To me this is an indication that there is a problem, and this problem will remain for as long as we cannot get together and share facilities in this country. I believe that we should look for a just way of providing health services for all the peoples of this province. I believe these figures indicate that some adjustments should be made as far as the making available of these hospital services is concerned.

Mr Chairman, I feel inclined to suggest, right at the start of the resumption of business, that after the sumptuous meal we had it would be advisable for us to adjourn and take the rest of the afternoon off so that we can go to the beautiful resorts we have here.

Unfortunately that cannot be allowed.

Thank you very much, Mr Chairman. I shall abide by your ruling, then, and proceed with my speech.

Mr Chairman, I was talking about hospital services. I had said that the differences in the occupancy rates indicate to me that there was a need for adjustments because of the oversupply of beds in the White sections of the hospital. I feel those excess beds could be used by the Black people of the Orange Free State. I have a particular problem as far as my community is concerned. The Virginia Hospital is about 600 metres from an Indian family living in Virginia. When the members of this family have to go to hospital, however, they have to go to the hospital in Welkom, 32 kilometres away, because that is the only hospital that will admit them. I want to suggest, on behalf of the people who live around there, that we make arrangements for the Virginia Hospital to have a private ward so that my people there can have hospital services.

I now want to turn to another matter in which I, as the Deputy Minister of Environment Affairs, have a personal interest. In this regard I wish to congratulate the hon the Administrator and the hon members of the Executive Committee on their programme of nature conservation and on their proper utilisation of the natural resources of the province. The hon the Administrator mentioned that the Provincial Administration is concerned about the indifference which people show towards nature conservation, and that the Provincial Administration is doing something positive to rectify this matter. I believe their programme of nature conservation complements the Government’s policy regarding environment conservation, as highlighted in the 1980 White Paper in which prominence is given to environmental education.

I want to appeal to the Provincial Administration of the Orange Free State to give serious consideration to making allowance in their future budgets for another aspect of environment conservation, viz the vexatious problem of littering which is of such concern to us. I understand that the Keep South Africa Beautiful Association’s national campaign on littering has not yet found much support in this province. If I am wrong, I would like to be proved wrong, but I have found in my investigations that not much is being done here in the Orange Free State to support this national campaign by the Keep South Africa Beautiful Association. I feel this province does have a part to play, and if they make allowance for this in their future budgets they will be able to nudge our city fathers into embracing this very important aspect of environmental education. For my part, I shall submit a memorandum to them through my department in the not too distant future in which I shall elaborate on this matter.

It is unfortunate, Sir, that one’s time is so limited, because there is so much one can say at a meeting of this nature. I should not like to adopt an attitude like the one that was adopted earlier today, however, and say that because of time constraints I am going to boycott meetings of this nature. What we have come to do here is to use the limited time at our disposal to the best advantage.

Mr Chairman, at the outset I should like, on behalf of the PFP, to record our condolences at the death of Mr Peter Jacobs, who was the hon member for Alra Park, and to extend our deepest sympathy to his family. I should also like to record the shock which I think we all felt at this event. We are dismayed that there are people in this country who should feel obliged, whatever their reasons, to resort to violence in any form, whether it be to solve political problems or to prove any other points.

Mr Chairman, the hon the Administrator said at the outset of his speech that he believed today would be a day on which history would be made. He referred to two definitions of history. He thought the second definition which he referred to was the more appropriate one. I am afraid I am of the opinion that the first definition is more appropriate to the proceedings of today. In fact, Sir, without wanting to belittle what is happening here today, I want to say that I believe today will not be remembered. I do not say this to be snide or cynical, but I think that this meeting is merely a perpetuation of what has already been started in this country, viz the tricameral concept of group government or own affairs. I think this will be proved, in the course of history, not only to have been a mistake, but also to have been irrelevant to the solution of the problems of this country and more particularly the problems of this province.

A further reason why I think today will not be remembered is that it is merely another step— and not a particularly significant one—in the emasculation of the system of provincial government. I think this is most unfortunate. As the hon the Administrator indicated, today’s meeting is really nothing more than a report back to the people of this province. It is not seriously intended to be part of the democratic process of government. It is certainly not seriously intended to be a forum in which to debate the issues which affect the people of this province.

In this facade—I believe it is nothing else but a facade—of multiracial debate, the group that constitutes the majority of the people in this province does not have a single elected representative here today. I am referring, of course, to the Black group—if we must talk about groups! I am speaking now about the greater Orange Free State, because this province not only provides services to the Black people living in the province, but to the Black people of QwaQwa as well. These 4 million people, whose interests are very much affected by what happens at provincial administration level, do not, as I said, have a single elected representative sitting here today. That is why I say it is a facade of multiracial debate; it is a facade of multiracial government.

Despite the toothlessness of this committee, however, our party will not adopt the approach which the CP has adopted. We will use this Committee to best advantage as an opportunity to draw the hon the Administrator’s attention to certain matters in the hope that the small contribution we can make—10 minutes in my case and 10 minutes in the case of the hon member for Green Point—as we represent our party, and in what we say will lead to an improvement in services provided by the Provincial Administration for all citizens of this province.

I intend dealing in the main with the unequal and discriminatory provision of services. I must stress that the PFP does not claim to speak on behalf of any section of our population. We have often been accused of claiming to speak on behalf of the Black people. That is not so. As MPs we have a duty to all the citizens of this country and all the citizens of this province, regardless of their race. In cases in which we feel certain South Africans are not getting a fair deal, we shall certainly speak out on their behalf.

I intend to refer initially to certain aspects of the provision of hospital services. I want to say that the fundamental problem in the provision of hospital services, as is the case with most other provincial services, can be ascribed to the fact that services are administered on a racially segregated basis. It is because of that that there are discrepancies, shortcomings and duplication. We merely have to look at the ratio of available beds in our provincial hospitals in comparison with the population of the province to realise that the provision of services, as far as hospital services go, is anything but equal. We have, according to the figures in the annual report, 2 498 beds for Whites in all the provincial hospitals. We have 2 760 beds for non-Whites—merely 262 more. We are talking of providing services for a population of 400 000 in the case of Whites, more than 60 000 Coloureds and over 4 million Blacks. As the hon member for Bethlehem correctly pointed out, this province does not provide services for only people from the province, but also for people from Botshabelo and elsewhere. It is quite clear, therefore, that if one is providing services on a group basis the present situation makes a mockery of any claim of any sort of equality in the provision of services.

What concerns me, however, is the maldistribution, the results of which are not insignificant. I do not know the exact reasons why we have this figure, but when one looks at the death rate in our provincial hospitals one sees that in A class hospitals, from the same number of patients treated, there are on average 647 deaths of White patients as opposed to 1 832 deaths of non-White patients. In other words, from the same number of patients treated, the death rate of patients from the non-White group is three times as high as that in the case of patients from the White group. That is the case in our A class hospitals where facilities are of the most specialised kind.

In the B class hospitals the figure is even worse. There again, from almost the same number of patients treated in the White group and the non-White group, there were 674 deaths amongst Whites and 2 800 deaths amongst Blacks—four and a half times as many! I am not suggesting that it is because of inferior treatment. I do not know the exact reason, but I am not suggesting that any doctor who has taken the Hippocratic oath or any nurse would intentionally provide a lesser service. Obviously I am not suggesting that for a moment, but there must be a reason. Could it be that we are not providing adequate preventative health care? The figures are nevertheless disturbing and I should like to know why there is such a vast discrepancy.

I should also like to ask some questions relating to other areas. I refer inter alia to the library services. We were told in reply to questions that were asked that there are 77 libraries in this province for Whites, seven for Blacks and six for Coloureds. We are told that the reason for this is that they are under the control of local government and not provincial government. I suggest that this is merely a convenient way of getting around racial discrimination.

The same applies in the case of the museum service. Despite the classification as Own Affairs: House of Assembly, where we have five of the six provincial museums for Whites only— because it is now classified as Own Affairs: House of Assembly—the other nine are all administered by local authorities. Two of them are classified as general affairs. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, under the previous dispensation I was a member of the Provincial Council for 25 years. At present I have more than 18 years’ service as a member of the Executive Committee of the Orange Free State. Today we are meeting here in terms of a new dispensation. We have a new system, and I want to say here this afternoon that I do not apologise for the fact that I am serving on this Executive Committee with Ramoeltsi Mokotjo and Clarence Henney.

If there were only Whites in the Orange Free State, and if only White interests were at stake, it would have been a good thing to have had only Whites on this Committee. That is not the case, however. We have Whites in the Free State, we have a large number of Black people in the Free State, we have Coloureds in the Free State, and recently we have also had Indians. In my opinion hon members of this Committee probably have the following question in mind: What does the Provincial Administration of the Orange Free State do with the R342 million voted in the budget for hospital and health services?

For the first 10 minutes I should like to give hon members a glimpse of what we really do in the Free State. I do not expect hon members to write down or remember these statistics, but in giving them the cold, hard facts I merely want to afford them some insight into what we are generally doing in regard to hospital and health services in the Free State. I am now going to give hon members the statistics, and each time I shall first give the figure for the Bloemfontein complex of hospitals and then the total for the Free State.

The reason for my drawing a distinction here is that approximately 66% to 70% of our overall budget is spent on the training hospital complex in Bloemfontein. It is important to take note of that fact. I have here the statistics for 1987. In the Bloemfontein hospital complex we treated 86 983 patients, and in the Free State as a whole 247 465. As far as outpatients are concerned, in the Bloemfontein complex we treated more than 266 000, and in the Free State as a whole more than 585 000. As far as physiotherapy is concerned, in the Bloemfontein complex we treated 66 639 patients, while the total for the Free State was 73 358. We gave 131 821 patients X-ray treatment in Bloemfontein, while the figure was 285 000 patients for the Free State as a whole. As far as radiotherapy is concerned—this is chiefly for cancer—we treated 6 472 patients in Bloemfontein during the one year, whilst the total for the Free State as a whole was only 6 529. In regard to surgical operations, ie operations performed in theatres, the total for the Bloemfontein complex was 45 158 and that for the Free State 98 132. Further interesting figures to give one an idea of the large number of patients treated in this small province are the following: The number of pathology samples taken in Bloemfontein was 2 732 000, whilst it was 2 813 000 for the Free State as a whole. This includes Whites, Coloureds and Blacks.

These statistics may be nothing but lifeless figures to hon members, but they do give one a fairly clear picture of the work done by this branch of the provincial administration. We have a very wide spectrum of activities, ranging from a small clinic in the rural districts, manned by a trained nurse, to our smaller community hospitals, our regional hospitals and also the training hospitals where our patients are given highly sophisticated treatment. Here professors and eminent medical doctors make use of specialised equipment to do very important work in the medical field. In addition we also run ambulance services, we train nurses at our college Vekovs, the Free State Training College for White nurses, where we also train our Coloured nurses, and Mankovs—the first part of the abbreviation stands for Mangaung, the Black city outside Bloemfontein—the training college for the Pelonomi Hospital. In Vekovs we have 350 White students and 50 Coloured students this year, and at Mangaung— this is only the second year that the college has been in existence—we have 340 students being trained as nurses, and as hon members know, all nurses now have to meet the requirements of the Nursing Council, ie a stipulated four-year training period.

Reference was made to ambulance services, but I do not want to say a great deal about that, because my time is limited. I merely want to say, as I have said previously, that the 45 ambulances we intend purchasing during this financial year will help to improve this service. Twenty of these ambulances will replace old, obsolete ambulances which we still have in service at the moment. We do not like to have an ambulance breaking down when it is transporting patients. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is a privilege to speak after such a senior member of the Executive Committee. I think the statistics he gave us here are very useful. I should also like to thank the hon the Administrator for his words of welcome this morning, as well as everyone who assisted in getting this hall ready for the proceedings here today. It was a big job which had to be done in a very short time.

I should also like to refer to the death of the hon member for Alra Park, Mr Peter Jacobs, and say that I think one should go further than a mere expression of sympathy. I immediately want to express my sympathy to his family and all the hon members of the LP who have experienced this harsh blow. It is very clear that South Africa’s enemies are beginning to close their ranks. We see this in their conduct in the country as well as abroad—we all saw the programme about sanctions on television last night. The question remains what we as moderates are going to do in this country. Are we going to do what we saw here this morning, viz boycott opportunities for joint discussion such as the one we have today, and walk out? Are we going to try to put “people’s power” in control in South Africa by committing the kind of act that was committed last night? No, I think the message in the tragic death of that person is that we as moderates must take cognisance of the enemy’s plans against this country and that by means of discussion such as this, we must work out a future for this country together.

†I also want to refer to the hon member for Natal Midlands in respect of his remarks about an Indian group area here in Bloemfontein. I just want to tell the Indian community that we who are involved in the affairs of Bloemfontein will do everything we can to support the Indian community in their efforts to acquire their own group area here, because that is the policy of our party.

I cannot ignore the remarks made by the hon member for Groote Schuur. He called this a facade, a bluff. I do not want to comment on his other remarks, but I think he does not know what is going on in South Africa. He does not know what the alternatives are for us in this country. We must either look at partition or at the creation of a people’s democracy here in this country. The NP is busy with a process whereby, on the one hand, it sees as far as possible to the upliftment of the people of this country. On the other hand, on the constitutional level, the NP tries to bring people into a system and to train them.

*Sir, in the time I have left, I should like to talk about regional services councils and the attendant involvement of agriculture. I want to express a word of sincere thanks for what has been achieved in the Free State by the Bloemfontein area’s regional services council. I am grateful for the wonderful co-operation among the respective population groups. When we see how well this regional services council is functioning, and how deficiencies in the area are being taken care of, we cannot but express our disappointment to our Administrator because of the shelving of the establishment of other regional services councils. It is a pity that the process cannot get going in other parts of the Free State at this time.

Regional services councils do not comprise a different form of government; instead they form a forum for discussion and decision-making—on a joint basis, on general affairs. It is a matter of providing services on a regional basis, and it is aimed at benefiting everyone. It is a matter of uplifting the depressed areas. The major objective of regional services councils is community development, and therefore development in the political and economic spheres—without the domination of one group over another. Here we see a practical manifestation of NP policy. If we can build upon this in future, we can create a dispensation in South Africa in which there will be room for everyone.

Although the financial assistance to local authorities is of the utmost importance, one may never underestimate the advantage of good and sound relations between population groups. The Bloemfontein area’s regional services council has succeeded eminently in this respect. Within a year it has proved that consensus-government is not only practically possible, but can be refined to a very effective decision-making process.

When we look at the involvement of agriculture, it appears that the SA Agricultural Union has assumed a very realistic standpoint since the beginning. This body said it would not give an opinion on the merit of regional services councils, since a regional services council is a political institution. However, it would put the case of agriculture to the best of its ability and negotiate for agriculture. Today one can say that almost everything the agricultural union requested should be incorporated, was incorporated when the Regional Services Councils Amendment Act was passed on 11 May this year. In terms of this Act, rural boards receive representation on the regional services councils, to the tune of three rural boards per population group in a region. Provision is also made for differentiated levies, so that regional services councils can give a discount. The franchise is no longer determined according to services that have been purchased. There are other criteria now. In future the Administrator will determine on what basis this can take place.

The SA Agricultural Union indicated that it welcomed these steps. The agricultural union is still involved in the activities of the Croeser Committee, however, which is considering other forms of levies for regional services councils. The process of negotiation is continuing, therefore. Even before the legislation was amended, the Bloemfontein area’s regional services council granted representation to agriculture by co-opting a person from the Bloemfontein district. In addition, a committee was appointed to determine what services regional services councils could perform for agriculture in that area. The report of that committee has been published, and on the basis of that report the Bloemfontein District Farmers’ Union is now involved in further investigations to determine what needs really exist in the area, in which regional services councils can play a part.

I want to summarise by saying that the Government has accommodated agriculture in respect of all the representations that were made in this regard. It is true that our agricultural community is now getting a say on the level of local government, a say it never had before. It is important to note, with reference to the course of events in Bloemfontein, that it is clear from the point of view of agriculture that the regional services councils are concerned with the total development of the region. If we can appreciate that, the benefit regional services councils can have for the rural areas will be enormous.

I want to conclude by thanking everyone who assisted in creating this dispensation. I want to wish them the best of luck. I hope that in future they will be able to develop the example they are setting here—also to the benefit of other regional services councils that are to be established.

Mr Chairman, I should like to associate myself with the sentiments that were expressed here today with regard to my colleague, Mr Peter Jacobs, the hon member for Alra Park.

I also want to express my displeasure about the conduct of the CP this morning. If the CP members think they are intimidating us, I want them to explain to their voters what their leader was doing on his visit to the Zulu king, Goodwill Zweletini. The CP must start realising that they will have to negotiate with us, the other groups. It will require a great deal to implement the kind of new dispensation that they envisage. The hon the State President has mentioned numerous times that this dispensation is not the alpha and the omega. The CP must understand that the hon the State President simply means that we are not perfect. No one is perfect. If the CP can tell us this afternoon that they are perfect, we want to know what South Africa’s alternative is. What we heard this morning, viz that the CP wants to take over the Free State, is lamentable. They will have to get past us first, however, Sir. They must keep that in mind. I do not want to waste my time by saying anything else about the CP, however.

In the first place I want to congratulate the hon the Administrator and the administration on the way in which our roads were repaired at the time of the flood. I also want to thank our traffic officers, who worked long hours—especially over that long weekend which extended over seven days—and I want to congratulate the public on the patience they exercised. I want to congratulate the traffic officers on their quick action at places where pieces of the road had washed away, for instance, and they had to put up signs and so on. Had they not done this in time, many people could have been killed.

In my opinion the security aspect in our province is of cardinal importance. During the flood we realised once again that the Free State is truly an artery of the South African transport system. Road and rail transport were paralysed. Sir, when we point out in Parliament how central the Free State is, certain people refuse to acknowledge that that is so. It emerged clearly once again during these events, however.

The morning the hon the Administrator was telephoned and asked to go on an inspection tour in the Free State to see how much damage had been done in our province—I mention this just for interest’s sake to show what we Free Staters are like—he immediately made his excuses to the standing committee and came. I want to thank him for doing so. The call came at an almost impossible time, since other things which were also important had happened in the Cape.

I want to ask the administration how many of our roads in the Free State still have to repaired, with specific reference to the number of kilometres of secondary and tertiary tarred roads.

The CP is going to try to change the attitude of the people in the Free State. As I know the Free Staters, however, that is no easy task. We hold the record, for example, when one looks at the number of people who died on our roads over the Easter weekend. Our figure was the lowest. I am worried that if attitudes are to be influenced here, our road safety will be affected. One sometimes laughs when the CP says that when they take over there will be white telephones for Whites, brown telephones for Coloureds and black telephones for Blacks. I would not be surprised if they told the voters one of these days that they were going to build their own N1 for their own use. They make all these ridiculous statements, because they know that they are not practicable. Now they are trying to make us feel guilty because we are here this afternoon. I am just as much of an elected member as the hon member for Lichtenburg. They must remember that we were also elected to Parliament.

I also want to talk about hospital services. I want to congratulate the administration on the establishment of the cancer unit at the Pelonomi Hospital. We received various complaints that our people sometimes had to wait a number of hours before being treated. That has been eliminated. The unit is situated close to our community, so that our people can be treated in time. We are experiencing a problem with regard to the district surgeon in Bloemfontein. Our district surgeon visits us on Tuesdays and Thursdays. The police have informed me that in the case of a rape, for example, the district surgeon sometimes does not come out at night. The police investigation is impeded if the raped person can be taken to the district surgeon only the following morning. I want to request that measures be taken so that when necessary, a district surgeon will come if he is called out late at night.

I do not want to promote partition or apartheid, but I must advocate my people’s cause. We are experiencing a problem with regard to our Coloured student nurses. They cannot all be accommodated at the hostel at the Pelonomi Hospital. I want to ask the administration to give serious consideration to building a hostel for our student nurses as well. I appreciate the extensions to the Pelonomi Hospital announced by the hon the Administrator, however.

My colleague, the hon member for Western Free State, spoke about the indigent cases. I also dealt with cases of that nature this year, which came from Botshabelo. The people did not know whom to approach, and I telephoned the administration’s office and was called back a few hours later. The person was buried and the people came from Botshabelo specially to thank me. I should like to convey these thanks to the administration and to tell them that what they did is appreciated. Sometimes these things seem unimportant, but they are appreciated.

We have the problem in the Free State that our rural areas are very sparsely populated and therefore do not get much attention. Like the hon member for Western Free State, I want to appeal that places of safety also be erected for the Blacks where possible. All the children cannot always be accommodated in the existing places. I appreciate the investigation conducted by the administration, because it is going to be of great benefit to us in future. These are the children who may, for example, be used against us in future. Certain elements are going to exploit these situations and cause us even greater problems.

Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure for me to speak after the hon member for Opkoms. I think he furnished a sturdy contribution and need not be ashamed of being here today.

Sir, Peter Jacobs was a personal friend of mine, and it was with shock that I learnt of his death this morning. It was a cowardly act. I want to express my heartfelt sympathy with his family.

It is a privilege for me to participate in this historic debate in the good old Free State where I was born and grew up. There is a saying: A Free Stater always comes back to his place of birth. [Interjections.]

I think it is fitting to lodge a plea here in Bloemfontein today for the urgent treatment of a serious condition suffered by the Free State goldfields, particularly in my constituency, and I am referring to narrowing of the coronary arteries. The treatment I am advocating is urgent heartbypass surgery, an operation which is performed at the Universitas Hospital virtually on a daily basis, an operation for which they have become very famous and of which those of us living in the Free State are very proud.

Today I want to lodge a plea for a by-pass operation for the N1 national route south of Kroonstad and also for the complete upgrading of the road network in and around the goldfields. Recently the hon the State President, when opening the Huguenot tunnel, strongly emphasised that good road links were the vital arteries in the body of our country and that the economy could only flourish if those arteries were not clogged up. Without in any way detracting from what the provincial administration has already spent on roads in the gold-fields, and still intends to spend, I nevertheless wish to submit that the vital arteries of the gold-fields have definitely become calcified or have narrowed to a certain extent. The structural condition of all five of the exit routes from the gold-fields is such that not one qualifies for a speed limit of 120 km per hour. For example, a speed limit of 100 km per hour applies for the route south of Welkom to approximately 20 km from Bloemfontein. That is the main artery to the South! This artery is not very sound, because the recent flood disaster washed away one bridge on that route, and within one day a large number of heavy vehicles had built up there. That is certainly not a healthy state of affairs for the country’s economy. No wonder there was such congestion, because transport studies on the gold-fields alone have indicated that as early as 1986 a traffic volume of approximately 3 000 vehicles per day was moving along the road from Welkom to Kroonstad. The traffic flow on the provincial road south of Welkom to Bloemfontein was 1 800 vehicles from Welkom, and from Virginia the figure was 2 500 vehicles per day. This gives a total of 4 300 vehicles per day. The corresponding estimated through-traffic on the planned N1 route, which will pass Ventersburg, is less than 2 000 vehicles per day.

The gold-fields are therefore undoubtedly a great source of traffic to and from the PWD area, and also to and from the south. If the road were to be rerouted through the Free State gold-fields, it is estimated that an additional 5 000 vehicles per day would make use of the route. I am talking about a section of the road which traverses the gold-fields and which is approximately 30 km in length. Diverting traffic onto such a high-order road would mean better utilisation of expensive infrastructure. The road east of Hennenman would only carry through-traffic, since the local traffic flow is so small that it can be ignored. To give a better perspective to the volumes involved, let me just mention that the expected traffic volume between Welkom and Virginia will be approximately 17 000 vehicles per day in the year 2 000. At present the traffic volume is 10 000 vehicles per day. Another advantage is that the route configuration from Kroonstad via the goldfields to Bloemfontein would be approximately 11 km shorter than the existing configuration. This in itself embodies an operating capital benefit. I am aware of the fact that the province no longer views the needs of the rapidly growing region on an ad hoc basis, as was the case in the past, and that it is now treated as a larger whole. We are grateful for the fact that the road construction programme was only drafted after a comprehensive traffic study by an expert firm of consulting engineers so as to ensure that the most important needs were given top priority. I am particularly grateful for the fact that the Virginia-Welkom road—the so-called death road—will be reconstructed and doubled in size within the context of this year’s road construction programme. I am also aware of the fact that the Department of Transport and the Transport Services have been examining the possibility of rerouting the N1 for some time now. I want to make an urgent appeal for the prescribed steps not to be postponed for much longer. I do not only want to make representations today. I also want to pay tribute.

Earlier on I mentioned in passing the achievements of the Faculty of Medicine at our university which is generally regarded as one of the best medical faculties in the RSA. The research done here is renowned both nationally and internationally. In this regard I am thinking, for example, of research in the field of allergies, pomology, vascular surgery, endocrinology, toxicology, chemical pathology and many others. The Department of Cardiology and Cardio-Vascular Surgery has gained nationwide recognition for its specialised heart catheterization investigations, angioplasty operations and heart-bypass operations. 2 000 heart catheterizations, 200 coronary angioplasty procedures and between 500 and 600 open-heart operations are carried out annually with excellent results. On behalf of Free State doctors I want to pay tribute to, and also express our thanks and appreciation for, the Faculty of Medicine. I want to tell that faculty that we are very proud of it.

As hon members have heard, in 1987 the oncotherapy section treated 15 000 White patients and also non-White patients from throughout the RSA, South West Africa and the neighbouring states, the linear accelerator playing a major role in this treatment. Today I also want to pay tribute to the back-room boys who do very important and sometimes extremely frustrating work. Most doctors do not see their way clear to doing this. People in the Free State greatly appreciate this work that is being done. As an inhabitant of the city I am very conscious of the problems involved in furnishing health services owing to physical shortages, not only in the Free State, but throughout the country. In spite of that, an acceptable health service is provided in the Free State, one which compares favourably with that furnished in the rest of the world. I am also aware that good progress has been made in another very important area, ie that of the population development programme. It was gratifying to read in the annual report that there has been a considerable increase in the number of visits to family planning clinics. Recently I came across an interesting slogan: “Population explosion is everybody’s baby.” I am glad to see that the province has also made it their baby. I am aware that on 1 April of this year 2 247 posts were transferred from the Department of National Health and Population Development’s establishment to that of the province’s hospital and health services branch. In conjunction with that, a variety of functions also devolved to this level, and I want to wish the department well.

Mr Chairman, I want to begin by expressing our sincere sympathy on behalf of the Administrator and Executive Committee with hon members of the House of Representatives on the death of Mr P S Jacobs. Naturally we did not know the hon member as hon members did, and therefore cannot attest to his participation in the relevant House, but we regard any act like the one that took the life of the hon member as unacceptable. For this reason we should like to associate ourselves with those who have condemned this act.

I want to try to refer briefly to certain comments that hon members made about our roads. I do not want to spend too much of my time on that. The hon member for Diamant referred to access roads to Coloured towns in the Free State. I can reassure the hon member, because the Executive Committee has already accepted the policy that access roads to Coloured as well as Black towns must be tarred, and this matter is receiving positive attention as money becomes available. The hon member also said we should make more use of outside contractors. It is already the administration’s policy that we give as much as possible of the roads section’s work out on contract. More than 75% of the budget for roads is given out on contract to private contractors.

†The hon member for Central Rand expressed his gratitude, together with the hon member for Natal Midlands, for the fact that Indians are allowed in the Free State now. The hon member also pleaded for the extension of business opportunities for the people of his race group. I just want to stress that the Government accepted the principle of the declaration of free business areas in every town, or every local authority, which applies for such a declaration. By doing that, business opportunities for all race groups will be available in most of the towns in the Free State. At this stage I can announce that the central business areas of two towns have already been declared free business areas, namely Welkom, on 30 April 1987, and Frankfort, on 31 March 1988. Five more towns are in the process of being considered for the declaration of free business areas.

*The hon member for Opkoms requested that we give an indication of the number of kilometres of road—primary, secondary and tertiary—which have not yet been repaired. That is difficult, because it is not one long piece of road that is untraversable. Only certain sections of the road are untraversable, especially with regard to the run-up to the various bridges that washed away, were repaired temporarily and which are receiving attention at the moment. At this stage it is difficult to negotiate those roads, because pot-holes are still appearing in these soft formations.

In addition there is the Tierkloof Bridge on the road between Bethlehem and Reitz which has been given out on contract for repairs amounting to R800 000.

The hon member for Welkom who has just resumed his seat referred to the alignment of the N1 route. I do not want to say anything about that, because the N1 is not a road built by the province, but by the National Transport Commission. I therefore assume that the representations will eventually reach that commission and the central Government, so that they can attend to the matter. The hon member also referred to roads in the gold-fields in general. I shall refer to these roads during the course of my speech, and more specifically to Welkom, Virginia, Odendaalsrus, etc.

When it was announced that this debate would take place in the Free State, I undertook to avail myself of the opportunity to talk to hon members about the policy and approach of the roads section and its obligations in the Orange Free State. If I have enough time, I should also like to refer to road traffic in the Free State, which is also my responsibility. The responsibility the roads section has to the Free State’s public is to ensure that connecting routes are built and that roads are maintained. During the past two years an in-depth study has once again been made of missing links in our road network. According to this study, it would be possible to complete the network by the year 2000 if one adhered to the 1984 funding level. This would mean that by the year 2000, the Orange Free State would have a complete network of primary or tarred roads. Subsequent to this, attention could be given to the upgrading of other roads, as well as the building of certain new roads where this is necessary as a result of development. The lack of funds, however, has meant that during the past five years there has been a consistent decrease in real terms in the funds that have been made available for roads in the Free State. This means that in terms of the 1988-89 budget and at a 15% inflation rate, almost 50% less in funds has been made available for the building of roads than in the 1983-84 financial year. With this general shortage of funds, as well as the rand/dollar exchange rate and the escalation in road building costs in mind, I should like to mention a few figures. To build a single carriageway tarred road of 1km cost approximately R250 000 in 1983. Today it costs R450 000 to build the same road. That is an increase of 80%. A special secondary tarred road—a gravel road with a layer of tar—cost only R45 000 per kilometre in 1983. Today it costs R150 000 per kilometre. That represents an increase of 233%. To build a secondary gravel road without tar costs R8 000 in 1983. Today it costs R20 000, an increase of 150%. To regravel a gravel road cost R5 000 per kilometre in 1983. Today it costs R12 000, an increase of 140%. To supply one kilometre of road with a single seal reseal cost R7 500 five years ago. Today it costs R15 000, an increase of 100%. As a result of these factors, the roads section has had to make serious adjustments in its policy so as to serve the best interests of the country as a whole and, of course, of the Free State in particular. It would be easy simply to decide that there was no more money and that therefore we were not going to build any more roads in the Free State. Instead of this negative attitude, the roads section of the Orange Free State has taken very important guideline decisions. I want to refer to these briefly.

It was decided inter alia that the road network in the Free State could not stagnate, but that it should be extended at a slower rate. In the second place it was decided that road standards would have to be adjusted, but that the changed standards would still have to be permanent so that roads would not have to receive attention too soon. In the third place, the principle of phase development of the total network was accepted. Roads in the primary network will be built as high standard gravel roads, until they can be tarred later. Special secondary roads will be built on alignments for later primary roads. In order to complete the primary road network in the Free State by the year 2000, it would be necessary to build 2 000 km of lacking tarred road links at a rate of 154 km per year. In addition it would be necessary to double 90 km of existing tarred roads and to rehabilitate or rebuild a further 1 600 km of present tarred roads at a rate of 123 km per year. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to participate in the debate. There has been frequent reference to figures this morning, indicating inter alia that we are supposedly not the true representatives of our people. If there were to be an election in my constituency, as well as the hon the Chairman’s constituency, a clear picture would emerge of who actually represents whom here. More than 500 years ago William Shakespeare said: “The old order changes and maketh way for the new, but God fulfils himself in many ways lest one old good custom should corrupt the world.”

I want to congratulate the hon the Chairman of the House of Representatives on his appointment as chairman of this extended provincial committee. I am a protégé of the hon Chairman, and it is encouraging to know that he who has left such an indelible mark on the history of our people in the Free State, and whose potential as a leader and presiding officer has been proven time and again, has had this honour of being appointed Chairman, and I venture to say that I do not think anybody else deserves that honour.

At this stage I should like to confine myself to local government, community services for Black people, which includes Black local authorities, as well as matters relevant to local government for Coloureds, including Coloured management committees. I do not want to deal with relations campaigns now. I believe that relations campaigns have an own identity, and in a later speech I shall give my full attention to that matter. At present South Africa is experiencing tremendous political change. According to certain political organisations and church denominations, it is not true that political change is taking place in this country, or has already taken place.

According to others again, the changes which have already taken place and which the Government intends implementing are meaningless, and they feel frustrated. As we have seen here this morning, others feel disturbed and panic-stricken because of the winds of change blowing through our country. These alarmists feel a sense of disquiet at things not remaining as they have always been. They are not only uncertain of themselves, but also of their beliefs. That is why there is such a tremendous onslaught, from both the left and the right, on the protagonists of change in South Africa, and why these people with such a great love for South Africa are being accused of the most dreadful things.

Let us look for a moment at what is happening in South Africa in the political, social and socio-economic spheres. For a better perspective, I should like to take hon members back to May 1983 when the federal congress of the NP was held right here in Bloemfontein. Major issues were discussed there. There was very serious discussion. South Africa was placed on the scales, and it was decided that something had to be done to save South Africa and preserve our fine father-land for our descendants. When I speak about descendants, I am speaking about Whites, Blacks and Coloureds. At the same congress—I think it was in the same city hall—an in-depth investigation was conducted into recommendations which the President’s Council was to have submitted on local government and minimum administrative control over local authorities and matters affecting Coloured management committees.

Mr Chairman, you will remember that, because at that stage you were a member of the President’s Council. That same President’s Council proposed the principle of the maximum devolution of powers, decentralisation of administration at local government level and minimum administrative control over local authorities. I think that in the development of its reform plans, the Government acted on the assumption that local government institutions, wherever possible, should be set up for the different population groups, subject to the requirement that effective measures be taken to make these local authorities viable.

Hon members will recall that the President’s Council recommended that chairmen of management and local affairs committees be appointed with full voting powers to local White management committees. I feel that this is the right time to compliment the Free State, because this was the brainchild of the Free State, and it was in the Free State that it was nurtured to fruition. In 1972, under the chairmanship of Mr Sanders, we, the Coloured inhabitants of the Free State, first began to consider the idea of more co-ordinated co-operation with White municipalities. This led to the formation of the Orange Free State Municipal Liaison Association in 1975-76 under the chairmanship of the present hon Deputy Minister of Defence. What was our aim? Why did we decide on this? We decided that there were certain matters of common interest on which we could decide together. I am so sorry that the hon members of the CP are not here to hear that what they want to destroy or argue out of existence in the Free State had its roots right here in the Free State. We in the Free State regard ourselves as reasonable people who take note of the realities, and who seek peace and peaceful solutions for the problems of South Africa. That is why we in the Free State sought ways and means of solving these problems.

It is so often said that the Whites in the Free State are so-called verkramptes, but I want to tell South Africa and the CP today that they are living in a political dream world. I regard the people of the Free State as people who want to preserve their past, as reasonable and thinking individuals who do not simply think of what they can get for themselves, but who think of others too. What a clear illustration we saw of this during the recent floods which occurred in our province.

Order! I am sorry, but the hon member’s time has expired.

I rise merely to give the hon member the opportunity to complete his speech.

Thank you. What a fair illustration was given to South Africa of how people of different race groups can work together when they are jointly affected by something. Not everything in the Free State is moonlight and roses. We have our problems and differences, but we know how and where to solve them, and we are always searching for ways to solve our problems.

As hon members know, I represent a part of the Free State which lagged behind when the rest of South Africa was developing. I represent those poor people in the Southern Free State. I am not speaking today only about the Coloured component I represent; I am speaking also about the Black people who are part of our community there. Something will have to be done. It is a great pity that so little is given to the Free State, because something will have to be done to take those people and lift them up out of the poverty and backwardness in which they are trapped. That will only be done when the necessary funds are made available. What makes it even worse is that the Southern Free State was hit by the floods. Whereas in the past the situation was desperate, it can now only be described as worse than desperate.

I think that what Abraham Lincoln said on 4 March 1865 could be strictly be applied to the Free State. I want to quote him, but before doing so, I merely want to say again what a pity it is that hon members of the CP are not here today, because what Abraham Lincoln said in America then applies in the Free State now. I do not hesitate to say that. He said:

There is much to be done. The Free State, as I said, is not all moonlight and roses. There is work to be done, but I want to tell the CP that if ever the Whites of the Free State were offended, it was this morning when the CP underestimated them. They underestimated the mentality of the White voters of the Free State. They underestimated their integrity when they behaved with such self-importance and said they were going to tackle the Free State. The Free State does not approve of that kind of behaviour; not even the underdeveloped Coloureds and Blacks do.

I believe that the Whites who are more advanced, people who have worked hard to build on the foundation stones of great men like Jim Fouché and Jan Brand, will not permit those foundation stones from which monuments have been erected on the Free State veld, to be destroyed by racial differences and division in the Free State.

Mr Chairman, at the outset I should like to express my thanks for the wonderful sentiments conveyed here this morning by the hon member for Bloemfontein East regarding library services in the Orange Free State. I want to assure him that such constructive criticism makes us even more determined to convert the many problems facing us in the province into challenges for the future. As far as the sentiments of the hon member for Diamant are concerned, I want to give the assurance that we have duly noted the content of his speech, and we shall take the appropriate action.

I think this is the right stage at which to inform hon members of the province’s policy in regard to the components of library services and the particulars relating to this. This would be a good juncture at which to make known the functions of the branch library services. The first function of the branch library services is that of establishing an infrastructure for the provision of library services. A second function involves the provision of specialised services. Thirdly, it is responsible for the provision of research services to promote the use of library material, and fourthly for the provision of auxiliary services. The library services component comprises specific institutions in the province which assist in the provision of library services. These institutions are mainly local authorities, components of the provincial administration and the Free State education department. Assistance is given to local authorities in respect of public library services, and this consists of the selection, purchase, preparation and provision of library material, as well as the provision of information services, giving expert advice, training library staff and financing and erecting library buildings. In the case of local authorities in Black residential areas, financial assistance is also provided by way of annual grants-in-aid in respect of the salaries of staff in charge of libraries. Local authorities themselves are responsible for the management, control and running of their libraries.

The Free State Provincial Administration is the only administration which provides library services to departmental White schools. This service was started in 1967, but it has been conducted on an agency basis since April 1986, although for educational purposes the school library is under the control of the Free State education department. At present there is no indication that this function will be taken over by the Administration: House of Assembly in the near future. Specialised information services are provided to all components of the provincial administration. Five of these components are in great need of study and research facilities and branch libraries are run by them. Assistance is rendered to 357 libraries at present, ie 78 public libraries and 37 library depots in White residential areas; 7 public libraries and 12 library depots in Black residential areas; 7 public libraries in Coloured residential areas, 211 school libraries and 5 subject libraries. Financial support from the White, Black and Coloured local authorities for the erection and running of libraries is regarded as an own affair of the relevant Ministers’ Council and administration, while the traditional library services of the provincial administrations are regarded as a general affair. According to a recent letter from the Commissioner for Administration, this financial support, as an own affair, will provisionally be held in abeyance until a decision on the classification of local government is taken. In the meantime, the Free State Provincial Administration is proceeding with the financing of library buildings for the communities concerned for as long as funds permit.

I want to give hon members an indication of the funds appropriated for the 1988-89 financial year for the erection of library buildings. Funds were made available in the 1988-89 financial year for the erection of library buildings in two White local authority areas, viz Bethlehem and Allan-ridge, and in six Black local authority areas, viz Maokeng in Kroonstad, Kutlwanong in Odendaalsrus, 42nd Hill in Harrismith, Meloding in Virginia, Megheleng in Ficksburg and Mangaung in Bloemfontein. In the planning and building program for the past five years, requirements identified were the further erection of library buildings in White and Black residential areas, as well as Coloured residential areas such as Luckhoff, Diamanthoogte at Koffiefontein, Greyville at Fauresmith, Kareehof at Boshof, Sandershoogte at Jacobsdal, Noordmanville at Tropmpsburg and Ebenhaeserhoogte at Wepener. Good progress was made last year with the expansion of library services to communities and groups which previously lacked them. Library services were provided for the communities of Bain’s Vlei, Bloemspruit, Riebeeckstad, Edenhoogte at Edenburg, the Coloured town at the Verwoerd Dam, Kgotsong at Bothaville and to patients in the Pelonomi Hospital.

There was a sound increase in the use of libraries during 1987. The total book circulation of libraries was almost 5,25 million, which represents an increase of 8% on the previous year. A most encouraging tendency is evident in the circulation of non-fictional subject literature, which increased by 13,4%. Bearing in mind the content of the subject lecture collection, it is evident that libraries are increasingly being used for obtaining information, self-education and cultural literacy. Libraries are succeeding therefore in continually playing a more meaningful role in the promotion of community development. I trust that the details I have given here today will contribute to putting the functional sphere of branch library services in a better perspective.

I want to devote the remaining time at my disposal to responding to the hon member for Southern Free State, and, more specifically, to speaking about local government institutions for Coloureds. Anyone involved in local government in recent times would definitely have realised that this is an exciting period in the history of their development. It has been noticeable that White councillors and Coloured management committee members and officials have enthusiastically been discussing and deliberating on the challenges involved in the whole process of constitutional reform. Certain arrangements have already been made to bring about better communication between White local government and Coloured management committees, accompanied by a better appreciation of one another’s requirements and goals. The arrangements recently led to the laying of a solid foundation between the population groups and local government, but my desire is that all members of the two population groups concerned should grasp the opportunity to use their efforts, expertise, time and talents, in order to realise this arrangement. At this stage there are already 21 proclaimed Coloured group areas in the Free State, while four proposed Coloured group areas are in the process of being proclaimed. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure for me to speak after the hon MEC, Mr Henney, and to congratulate him on his first speech in this Committee. As the hon the Administrator and other hon members have said, today is certainly an historic occasion, this being the first sitting of this extended committee, and the first public debate in which all the political parties represented in Parliament are participating. The question that occurs to me is what we will make of such an opportunity. Will we use this opportunity—it will occur again in the future—to the advantage and benefit of the Free State, or will we abuse it by trying to score political points against one another? If we want to resolve this question, I think it is necessary first of all to tell one another that we have basic policy differences and that every party represented here will retain those policy differences, if necessary, but that there will still be adequate opportunity for joint debating and decision-making which will be to the benefit of the Free State as a whole.

I am grateful for having this turn to speak so shortly after the hon member for Southern Free State has spoken. If I might use that as an illustration, I should like to point out that the hon member and I serve almost the same part of the Free State. On more than one occasion the hon member and I have been in contact, with beneficial results for all the inhabitants of the Southern Free State. I hope that this will serve as an example to hon members of how I believe this Committee should act. The hon member for Southern Free State and I definitely do not have the same political principles. However, there is enough room for mutual co-operation.

I want to furnish proof of this particular statement of mine by quoting two passages. Firstly, I quote from the NP’s programme of principles:

That is NP policy. But on the other hand, point 5 of the LP’s policy reads as follows:

Sir, I do not want to analyse these two policy standpoints. However, in a certain respect they are diametrically opposed to one another. Nevertheless, the hon member for Free State described the Whites as reasonable and thinking people who were intent on preserving their heritage. What does that tell us, Sir? It tells us that despite our political differences, there is still room for us to co-operate in finding a better dispensation for the Free State.

I did think of making a speech on a theme based on some of the points raised here earlier today by the hon member for Lichtenburg. The hon member and his party left this Committee on the grounds of three policy standpoints which they elucidated here. Firstly, he said that they were leaving the Committee and would not take part in the discussion because of so-called power-sharing which had not worked anywhere in the world. I say: That will be the day. Power-sharing or joint decision-making is nothing new. I am extremely sorry that the hon member is not here, because I should like to tell him that to his face. I shall try to find an opportunity in Parliament some time to tell him that. Have the hon member and his party forgotten that when they were still part of the NP we took joint decisions at the highest level in the multilateral Ministers’ Council with representatives of the TBVC countries?

If we wanted to give a further example of the feasibility of joint decision-making, where would we find a better illustration than the discussions in the Standing Committees on Provincial Affairs in Parliament? Those hon members—and all the hon members present here who form part of that Committee—took part in discussions for two days, and eventually a joint decision was taken. First there was joint deliberation and then a joint decision was taken. And that was done to the benefit of the Free State as a whole.

As a further illustration of joint decision-making, let me refer to the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee. It has come to my attention that the Executive Committee, as presently constituted, with Messrs Henney and Mokotjo as members, has to date taken 1 043 decisions. These decisions were taken after in-depth discussions which took place unanimously on the basis of consensus. Can one find a better example of joint decision-making in South Africa, with its multi-cultural composition, being possible, attainable and desirable? That, then, is obviously the road we must follow.

While I am referring to the Executive Committee, I should like to congratulate the hon the Administrator on his arrangement of the functions of MECs and in this connection I want to refer specifically to Messrs Mokotjo and Henney. Mr Mokotjo was appointed chairman of the directorate dealing inter alia with social services for Black people and including responsibility for Black local authority matters. This includes a multitude of aspects. If we want to develop community services for the Black people, how can anyone say that Mr Mokotjo is not the most suitable person, and is not better qualified than Messrs Simes or Dreyer? That is certainly the case. I can see no reason why we would not accept that a Black man, Mr Mokotjo, would be specifically responsible for housing and social and welfare services for Black people. That is the course we are trying to follow. The people must be represented by their own ranks, because they know these people. They live together.

Sir, allow me to dwell for a moment on Mr Henney. I should be pleased if the hon the Administrator could tell us at a later stage to what extent Mr Henney is accepted as the spokesman of the Coloured communities in the Free State. I should like to hear the response of hon members of the Labour Party in this connection. Mr Henney, MEC, is entrusted with local government for Coloureds, which includes management committees and the promotion of relations campaigns.

Another of Mr Henney’s functions is library services. I think it was a wise decision to put library services under the chairmanship of Mr Henney. As far as Whites are concerned, there are 77 libraries: 7 for Blacks and 6 for Coloureds. There is obviously a great need for libraries for Coloureds and Black people, and eventually this need will have to be catered for. Perhaps it is as well that Mr Henney is the chairman and Mr Mokotjo the deputy chairman of the directorate.

It is a pleasure for me to be able to say today that notwithstanding the further course of this debate, we have established a base here which rests on co-operation and joint decision-making on which we will surely be able to expand in the future. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I bring greetings and good wishes from the Indian people of Natal to the hon the Administrator of the Orange Free State, the hon members of his Executive Committee and also to the people of the Orange Free State in general. We regard it as a privilege to debate and to comment on the provincial budget of the Orange Free State. This is indeed a historic occasion for the Indian community in South Africa.

As you know, Mr Chairman, the Indian community of South Africa, although they are bona fide South African citizens who hold valid identity documents and passports, have, for obvious reasons, not had the privilege to travel freely and to reside in this part of their very own country. This is something of the past, however, and now that the Government has given the Indian community the opportunity to settle and reside in the Orange Free State, I hope sincerely that the Provincial Administration and also the local municipalities will throw open areas and remove all the red tape that prevailed in the past.

With regard to the budget itself, it is sad to see that little or no provision has been made for the upliftment of the quality of life of the Indians who are here in their very small numbers. Nevertheless, Sir, I envisage the years ahead with a great deal of hope that provision will be made in the field of housing, education and recreational facilities.

As far as recreational facilities are concerned, I note on page 57 of the Provincial Administration’s annual report for 1986-87 that the average rondavel occupancy at all the resorts is merely 50% and that the average bed occupancy is 37%. This indicates that the existing White holiday resorts are being underutilised. It is inexplicable, therefore, that resorts for Blacks, Coloureds and Indians are being established at tremendous cost to the ratepayers of this province. It is my honest belief that the answer lies not in the proliferation of facilities but rather in the sharing of the existing facilities. I feel that the taxpayers should not be overburdened. We have to live in this country, and we will have to live together and share equally. Any duplication of services, therefore, will merely increase the burden on the ratepayer.

Finally, in the limited time still at my disposal I want to thank the Provincial Administration and also the people of the Orange Free State for the warm reception that has been given to members of the House of Delegates and for the hospitality that has been shown on this historic occasion.

Mr Chairman, it is indeed a pleasure to follow upon the hon member for Havenside. We have much in common, and it is my deepest desire that this province will make provision for these people as soon as possible. It is strange that it was that old Oriental philosopher, Confucius, who best described what is going on in this country at the moment. He said:

To those, Mr Chairman, who do not abide by this golden rule, who want to disturb the tranquility of our beautiful province for opportunistic reasons and to achieve short-term objectives, those of us who are together here today say: Keep your dirty hands to yourself. All our communities—I am convinced that our Black communities feel this way too—are on the side of those who welcomed Archbishop Desmond Tutu with slogans like, “Go and pray with the Russians. We want food, not sanctions.”

*Sir, in this beautiful province of ours, the Free State, those of us who are closely involved in the political development here, are aware of a growing understanding between the different population groups. We no longer shout at each other in the streets; we talk to each other and we listen to each other. If we fall down, we support one another and we help one another to our feet.

Recently I attended a fine meeting of the relations committee in Wepener. The hon the Minister of Health Services and Welfare in the House of Assembly was the main speaker. I am proud of Wepener, but Wepener is only a symbol, a personification of what is going on in the Free State at the moment. We are in the process of creating channels so that we will not be strangers to one another in future.

Relations committees are being established and are going from strength to strength. Liaison forums did important work during the recent flood disaster, too, when floods made us all equal. At the centre of this struggle against polarisation in our communities is one person, a venerable old gentleman who is present here today, Mr R J Mokotjo. Sir, I had an interview with Mr Mokotjo on Friday, and it was a wonderful privilege for me, who has been in politics for some time now. There is no bitterness in Mr Mokotjo. He looks back with gratitude to his origins, and it is with gratitude that he speaks of his “oubaas” for whom his father worked for 50 years and who made it possible for him to be here today.

He also has a vision of the future, a dream for his people. Today he holds an important position: He is the chairman of a directorate which, apart from this important relations strategy, is also responsible for the social welfare services of his people. His people, like the Afrikaners many years ago, are today experiencing the trauma of urbanisation, unemployment and finding their feet in a strange world. For that reason I am grateful to see that he already has 29 workers who in recent years have held 3 260 guidance interviews. Social pensions are also going to be taken over by his directorate soon. This is welcome progress.

Mr Mokotjo is also responsible for housing. I drove with him through the Mangaun Pass, we flew over Botshabelo and we also visited many of the towns in my constituency, and I must say I am impressed with what is happening there. The progress taking place there is impressive.

One is concerned about the tremendous backlogs, about the frustrations and the conflicting interests, but one still believes that this is making way for a new spirit. I can see this in many of the towns falling under Mr Mokotjo’s control. Doubt is making way for new hope. Where until recently battlecries were resounding, we hear today the work-songs which, together with the clink of trowel and bricks, have become a symphony of hope, of expectations and of a new life.

Underlying this new spirit which is prevailing in the Free State is the establishment of own Black management bodies for which Mr Mokotjo is also responsible. That foundation which gives one a feeling of self-esteem and tells one that although as an individual one is not very important, one can negotiate for a better future and discuss matters which improve one’s living conditions, is an entirely new field of experience these people are entering. We must learn from the lessons of Africa and not leave them entirely to their own devices. For that reason I am glad that the Directorate: Community Services is taking them by the hand and is offering the necessary guidance and training programmes. In the process of the functions of the development boards being taken over by this new department there are gaps and vacuums which must be filled and these people see to it that the systems do not collapse. As a representative of Whites I was also given the assurance that the 3 000 staff members were not simply being thrown to the wolves, but that they had received good offers and that most of them had been placed in good positions. Only 130 of the staff of the old development boards have been discharged, but they are still on the paysheet and are still being paid.

In a conversation with Mr Mokotjo he told me that we had run 80 yards and that there were only 20 yards left to the winning post. He said: We dare not turn back now, because both my people and yours will get hurt. We must go on. I can tell Mr Mokotjo that I am positive that the spirit which is prevailing here today will eventually triumph. The Free State and its people will see to it that the damning statement made by Alistair Horn in his book on Algeria will not apply to South Africa. He said:

Peter Jacobs died for this ideal. I knew him well.

I met him in Bible Study groups which meet every second week. He was a believer and I believe that he did not die in vain. His memory can ensure that moderation triumphs in this country.

Mr Chairman, I should like to associate myself with the sympathy which has been expressed on the death of the hon member for Alra Park, and I do so also on behalf of the Black people of the Free State.

†I also want to avail myself of the opportunity to thank the hon member for Smithfield for the kind sentiments he expressed about me.

*The hon member for Western Free State spoke about relations in the Free State, especially in the Southern Free State, which are improving. I want to assure him here that this has been my experience as well, as a Black person and as an MEC in the Free State.

The hon the Administrator referred to the activities in connection with the Black communities in the Free State. I should like to provide a little background information, but before I do so I should like to express a word of thanks on behalf of all the Black people of the Free State.

†I want to say thank you very much to all the well-disposed members of the three Houses of Parliament for the good words they have put in for us when they had the opportunity.

†It is a pleasure for me to be able to speak to hon members on an occasion such as this about as relevant a matter as community services for Blacks. In the Free State Provincial Administration this is dealt with by five directorates with various subdirectorates. Right at the outset I want to say that it is the Free State’s policy to establish the best possible way of life for all its inhabitants in the shortest possible time. In order to do justice to community development in the socio-economic sphere and social sphere, conditions must be improved to such an extent that the quality of life is improved. In this process training is indispensable.

Surely it is obvious that if members of a local community acquire the necessary expertise by means of training, they will be able to be active agents in their own development. The training which has to be undergone covers a very broad spectrum. Many aspects of it require formal tuition, but some facets can be provided by short courses and in-service training. All possible expertise possessed by local authorities is harnessed for use where the need is the greatest. In the Exchequer Division personnel suitable for training is extremely limited, but the necessary progress is being made. The Director: Local Authorities and his personnel give advice and render assistance, on an ongoing basis, to the local authorities in respect of the implementation of the powers entrusted to them in terms of the Black Local Authorities Act.

The area of jurisdiction of the provincial administration of the Orange Free State presently includes four city councils, eight town councils, 56 town committees and two local authority committees. That comes to a total of 70. For administrative purposes, this area of jurisdiction is divided into three regions with regional offices at Bloemfontein, Kroonstad and Bethlehem. It is obvious that the development and functioning of a local authority is limited by its financial capabilities. Therefore the possibility of additional sources of income must be considered. Up to now the nature of development in urban residential areas has prevented communities from creating sufficient financial resources on their own in respect of the provision of the region’s needs and capital projects and other services have been subsidised from other sources, for example donations and bridging finance. The creation of additional sources of revenue is essential and consideration could for example be given to the provision of business and service industry complexes by replanning urban residential areas.

Urbanisation in urban areas and in rural towns must be accepted as being an inevitable phase in the development of the Republic of South Africa and of its inhabitants, and must therefore be utilised positively in such a way that the quality of life of all population groups is enhanced. Land which is to be used for future urbanisation has been identified in the guide plans and in the structural plans which are being drawn up for every town or region. This land is known as the hinterland and the acquisition of this land for the establishment of towns rests with the local authority or the urban developer who purchases it, who establishes infrastructures on it and either improves or markets the premises or merely markets the serviced premises. In order to promote better land utilisation it is essential that a sound balance be maintained between premises which are made available for habitation purposes, for commercial and industrial premises and the recreational needs of the residents. The utilisation and the making available of land for urbanisation must be planned in such a way as to enable the maximum utilisation of its infrastructure and future expansion.

The distance between residential areas and the place of work is especially important so that travelling distances and times can be kept to the minimum. The limited availability of land for urbanisation renders it essential that in the immediate future consideration be given to high-density housing. In addition to the timeous provision of sufficient land to make approved stands available, and in so doing promote orderly urbanisation, it is essential that occupation also be used as a deliberate measure to bring about urbanisation in an orderly manner. Occupation means accommodation and that includes all existing houses, core houses, boarding houses, hostels, flats as well as informal housing structures, provided they are erected on approved stands.

It is gratifying, however, to see that building societies, banks and organisations such as the South African Housing Trust, the Urban Foundation and private developers are becoming increasingly involved in the provision of infrastructure and housing. The largest percentage of loans which have been raised for housing purposes from the National Housing Committee indicate that there is movement in the right direction, namely the provision of housing to those who cannot look after themselves. This category includes the handicapped, the aged, welfare cases and people with very low incomes. In these cases use is made mainly of self-help building schemes by means of building-material loans, while attempting to keep the infrastructure costs as low as possible.

In order to ensure that land remains available for subeconomic groups, it is an essential practice that 30% of a town’s available land be set aside for low-cost housing. As far as the development of land is concerned, an appeal is being made to developers to make provision for the installation of services on some stands where they can be purchased at affordable prices by occupants who have a low income. Because of the requirements which have to be complied with in practice, it must be accepted that in every Black community—as the hon the Administrator said—there is an upper town which has all the infrastructural services as well as a middle and downtown which have only the rudimentary services in relation to the ability of the occupants to pay.

In future the Free State Provincial Administration will have to gear itself specifically towards being of assistance in the acquisition of land, the negotiation of financing for the development of urban areas, as well as the erection of homes for all population groups and the various income groups.

I am able to announce with pride that, as far as the special house-selling project is concerned, more than 6 000 of the 21 000 houses available in the province have been sold since the project was started in 1983. The monthly rate of sales is continuing to increase from less than 100 during July 1987 to almost 900 during March 1988. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, allow me to express my sympathy with the family of Mr Jacobs, the late MP for Alra Park. The new dispensation has brought much heartache to the Coloured people. It has cost many of our friends their lives. But it cost God his life to redeem us and therefore we of the LP will carry on. We shall persevere, because we feel it is our vocation to bring about change. We believe in a change of heart, and not in a change of words. We believe in deeds, not in words.

As far as the walk-out is concerned, I only want to say that throughout the years the Whites have put the Coloureds’ case in Parliament, and today, when the Coloured man is here to put his own case, they walk out. I just want to tell them that they have been calling the tune for too long. We danced even when they played the wrong tune, but that time is past. Today we play in the same orchestra and govern jointly in this country. I want to thank the hon the State President for this opportunity this afternoon. Had he not made a move, we would not have been here this afternoon. He listened to the calls of the Coloured people, and for that we thank him.

There have been great changes in the country. Today we have a Coloured man and a Black man who are MEC’s. I call on them to promote our peoples’ interests and to put their case. They must maintain close ties with our community, so that they will know what we want.

I am sorry about what has happened; it breaks one’s heart, but allow me to thank the City Council of Bloemfontein for making this hall available to accommodate us. We also thank the hon the Administrator.

An amount of R850 411 000 has been budgeted in the eight Votes for the next financial year. I hope that the money will be divided fairly amongst the various elements of the community of the Free State. I venture to say that although many changes have taken place and still are taking place, it can still be said that the Coloured and Black residential areas begin where the tarred road ends. I hope and trust that the hon the Administrator will ensure that this money will also be used for these communities. We do not ask any more for ourselves than we ask for others. We want to share with others this land which God gave to all of us. I always say South Africa is like a spotted cow. It has black, white, brown and grey patches. Should one of those patches become sore, the whole animal is sore, and if one patch is dealt a deathblow, the whole animal is killed. But if one cures that one patch, the whole animal is cured. We trust that the hon the State President is restoring the whole animal, South Africa, to health. We should go on our knees and pray that he and our leader, Rev Hendrickse, will make the South African people happy.

I want to refer to our recreation resorts which cost R6,5 million. I want to thank the hon the Administrator for looking after our interests. I see from the report that other resorts will also be changed, modernised and enlarged. I want to advocate that more facilities should be created for us at the Philip Sanders resort at the Mockes Dam. The resort is on the small side and is often full to overflowing. We appreciate what we have been given, but we ask that it be made a little larger. Sometimes our Black brethren come to this place, and we do not want to turn them away. I am the last person to want to turn them away, because I think it hurts them.

We want to thank the hon the Administrator for the welcome given to us in Bloemfontein, but I want to point out that there are still people in this city and this province who discriminate against our people. There are still restaurants which turn us away when we want to have a meal there. Our feelings are still being hurt in the Free State. It is said that Coloureds and Blacks in the Free State do not walk on the pavements because they get pushed off. That, however, is not true.

We live, work and think together in the Free State, together with our hon Administrator, Mr Botha. When we approach him, he is always ready to give advice. May he have a long life helping the Coloured people of the Free State. We are going to fight the so-called liberal set, the people of the Cape. When the Administrator announced the funds to be made available to the management committees, he was the first to stand up for the Coloured people. We appreciate that and we shall always be grateful. Today is a great day for me.

I also want to thank the hon leader of the NP in the Free State, the hon the Minister of Justice. I spent half an hour with him at the airport discussing the question of our Indian brethren. We decided on a date when the executive committee of the Free State and representatives of the LP and the NP could meet at the President Hotel for discussions. That is how we find one another, sitting down together and having discussions. That is how people are converted when they listen to a clergyman speaking from a platform. [Interjections.] Hon members probably want to know why they are sitting there. Mr Chairman, you know how it happened.

Referring to this budget, I want to speak on hospital services. I want to point out to the hon the Administrator that our people are not being treated properly by the doctors at Pelonomi hospital. They use language I would not like to repeat, and I ask that they be admonished. I also want to talk to my people: Coloureds and Blacks should not give the doctors cause to treat them badly. They should not put one another’s lives in danger in weekend brawls. They should help one another and bear one another’s burdens. I call on my people not to take the lives of others. When I visit the hospital at weekends, they are lying there, the victims of stab wounds. Why? What is the cause? Is it poor housing? What is it? I do not know.

This brings me to roads. People suffer bone fractures on our roads, and have to be treated in hospital. In our Black area cars collide on the roads because there are so many potholes. That is why the hospitals are full. We have a wonderful man at that hospital, Dr Viviers. He is a patient man who never takes sides and always listens when we speak to him, or plead or complain about the treatment meted out to our people in that hospital. I want to call on my own people, however, to be deserving of respect and to realise that we cannot manage without those doctors. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is a pleasure to speak after the hon member for Heidedal. It is quite illuminating to see the enthusiasm with which hon members of the House of Representatives are participating in this first, historic debate of a joint extended committee of Parliament. That is the spirit in which we in South Africa must live together. We cannot argue away the realities of South Africa. We cannot boycott the realities of the situation. We cannot walk out of a meeting and so try to change the system, or spin ourselves into a cocoon and evade the reality.

What happened this morning? The CP objected to the time they were to be given for speaking in this debate. That is one of the reasons they walked out. However, let me give hon members details of what the Whips had previously arranged. Initially discussions in all four provinces were to have taken place simultaneously, and the CP would only have had 65 minutes in that discussion—that is for a discussion of the estimates of all four provinces. They only asked for 15 minutes for the Free State. The hon the Chief Whip of Parliament, however, gave them 30 minutes for debating time here. They were therefore given twice as much time as they originally asked for, and now they have walked out because they did not get sufficient time.

The type of disinformation with which the CP misleads the voters can no longer be tolerated in this country. I am going to recommend to Mr Speaker that they not be recompensed, because they did not attend these proceedings. They talk about the NP wasting the taxpayers’ money, but they came here this evening to hold a public meeting at the taxpayers’ expense. They want to spread their disinformation here in Bloemfontein this evening at the expense of the taxpayers. We cannot allow this, and I hope I shall be able to make out a case with Mr Speaker, so that they will not be compensated for travel and accommodation expenses, because they boycotted these proceedings.

Let us consider for a while where the idea came from that change should take place in South Africa. Let us consider the participants in this scheme for change to take place. We can then also take a look at those who shied away from these factors they themselves decided on as being the only solution to the South African situation. Today they are shying away from the very things they formulated as the solutions. When Dr Andries Treurnicht was still a member of the NP and leader of the NP in the Transvaal, he made a policy speech on 3 November 1981 at the Transvaal congress. In this policy speech—I am going to quote some passages from it—he said:

Why did he say that? He spoke about motivation, because everybody is resistant to change. It is a psychological factor. One has to motivate people to adapt to the needs of the time. He then went on to say:

He also said:

That was the manifesto for the 1981 election, in which a programme of action, a 12-point plan, was announced. He said:

He accepted, therefore, the will of the majority in the election.

We also said further in our manifesto that there should be a division of power between South African Whites, Coloureds and Indians, with a system of consolidation and joint responsibility on matters of common concern. In our own comment, we said that the concept of independent own states for each of them was not possible in practice. What do they proclaim today? Partition, without qualifying how it should be implemented. At the same time however, there are deep-rooted differences between these population groups, which means that it is realistic to differentiate between those matters which are unique to each of them, and matters of common concern. Today they are boycotting the discussion of those matters of common concern. How can one trust people who propounded these matters of principle as being sacrosanct in 1981 and as being the only solution, only to shy away and boycott them when they have to be implemented?

That is not all, however. This system will mean that there will have to be self-determination for groups when it comes to their own affairs, and that everybody will be involved with matters of common concern in such a way that self-determination is not prejudiced. None of these population groups—not the House of Representatives, not the House of Delegates, not the House of Assembly—will permit a dismantling of their own affairs and allow their own interests to be prejudiced. The CP calls it power-sharing, however, and then they interpret it as the principle of power-sharing was interpreted under the old dispensation, when power-sharing meant one man, one vote in a unitary system, in other words, a common voters’ roll. Now we have separate voters’ rolls and own affairs which cannot be encroached upon. One can now jointly share power, because protection for what is one’s own is embodied in the Constitution. Why do they shy away from this system?

He said:

I ask now whether they are not fanning the flames of revolution. Are they trying to propagate resolution by their conduct?

The course they are adopting is a fatal one.

I think I have wasted enough time talking about these people. I think I should also say something about my constituency.

Order! I am sorry to interrupt, but the hon member’s time has expired. The hon member himself conceded that he had wasted his time.

Mr Chairman, it is indeed a historic occasion in that we as parliamentarians are meeting for the first time in Bloemfontein to discuss the provincial Budget Vote. The principle of being accountable is a good one. There should in fact be a strong partnership between central and provincial government.

On the question of hospital services we were told that the Indian community would be treated for emergency cases only. I believe that we must depoliticise hospital services so that this facility should accommodate not only emergency cases, but also patients who require routine treatment. What happens in the case of a pregnancy? I implore the MEC in charge of hospital services to respond to my request that a ward be reserved for this purpose, so that our community can be accorded the full facilities.

I would also like to ask the following questions as far as road traffic is concerned. In the first place, how many White, Coloured, Indian and Black traffic officers are employed by the administration? Secondly, is there parity in the salary structures of all population groups in all provincial departments? Thirdly, what steps have been contemplated to curb the high death rates on provincial roads? Fourthly, how much has been budgeted for effective programmes for the rehabilitation of drunken drivers. Fifthly, with reference to traffic officers, how many vacancies are there and why are they not filled?

As far as works are concerned I would also like to pose the following questions. Firstly, how are tenders called for and what criteria are used in determining the successful tenders? Secondly, have any tenders been awarded to non-White contractors during the past year? If not, why not?

As far as library services are concerned I would like to know whether council and provincial libraries are open to all races. What is the administration’s policy on users of libraries?

Mr Chairman, I thank you for affording me this opportunity and I trust that the MECs will respond to my questions.

Mr Chairman, I should like to begin by saying that it is indeed a great privilege for me, as the only former MPC, after the abolition of provincial councils, to be able to participate as an MP in this Committee. [Interjections.]

I have a bone to pick with the CP on a few issues. According to the list of speakers, I think I should actually have spoken tomorrow. I have, however, had to speak this afternoon, thanks to the distasteful boycott by the CP. This afternoon the hon member for Lichtenburg started off by saying that as NP members we were here this afternoon to protect the hon the Administrator and the MECs. That shows me how little they know about the Free State, because I had the privilege of serving under those people for five years. They did not need any protection then. This morning and this afternoon they have also shown by their conduct in this Committee that they do not need protection. They have no quarrel with anyone; they are rendering outstanding service to the Free State, and for that I thank them.

I want to say something else. Why should anyone with 25 years’ service in the provincial council, and 18 years as a member of the executive committee, need protection from people who are too afraid to participate in the proceedings of this Committee today when we are discussing the affairs of the province? [Interjections.] I therefore refute that accusation. I also want to add something which in my view we should not neglect to do. I am just as sorry as the hon member for Sasolburg that they are not here. We in South Africa are dissatisfied that the world at large is boycotting us. As Whites in this country, we try to give substance and direction, so that everybody can be represented. In the process, however, my fellow-Afrikaners walk out of a committee in which they are supposed to be serving the interests of the Free State. I think the voters they are relying on to give them a majority vote in the Free State will note the sort of interest they show in the affairs of the Free State, because we are not here just to score political points. We are here to debate the interests and the future of the Free State. A few fellow-Afrikaners, who do not think it worthwhile to participate in this Committee today, have taken to their heels, but I know why they have done so. Obviously, as they want to make politics out of this issue, they do not have a good political case to put in this Committee.

There is something else which I am proud of. The hon the Chairman and I each have the privilege of representing a constituency in the Eastern Free State. It is, of course, the loveliest part of the Free State. This dispensation has only existed for a short while, but we have already achieved something. The Coloured community of Ficksburg won the prize for the community which has shown the greatest progress over the past year. You will acknowledge, Sir, that that achievement would not have been possible had the two communities not worked together. I want to pay tribute to those two groups in a small community in the Free State which, within the short space of a year, joined forces and won this prize in competition with all the large centres in South Africa. I am very proud of this, and I think the hon the Chairman is too. We are proud of the way in which success was achieved.

I should like to come to another matter. The hon member for Bethlehem referred this morning to the importance of our road network in the Free State. I want to lodge a plea. I do not have much criticism, except that the road between Senekal and Ficksburg has still not been tarred. I have heard that it is being tarred. Do not misunderstand me, Sir, we have been negotiating on this matter. I do not want the Press to make a mistake about this.

I have no problem with the way our province spends money on roads. I do think, however, as far as the Free State is concerned, that something is overlooked when it comes to allocating funds for roads. We must realise, Sir, that the Free State does not have the most roads per surface area because it wants to boast, but because, firstly, it is the most productive agricultural province in the country.

I shall provide hon members with figures in this regard; I am not sucking them out of my thumb. The largest industry in agriculture is the maize industry. We produce 36% of the maize. When one takes the surface area of the Free State into account, it is clear just how great an achievement this is. As far as wheat is concerned, we produce 45% of the country’s total production. As far as the dairy industry is concerned—this is the third largest commodity—we produce 28% of the country’s total production. May I just tell the hon members of the CP, who all come from the Transvaal, that they would not have had milk to drink if the Free State had not been there. They are not even here to help me take up the cudgels for the dairy industry in the Free State. What is more, we produce 32% of the grain sorghum in the country, and 40% of the country’s sunflower harvest. That is a long list, Sir; I shall leave it at that. However, I would just like to take up the cudgels for the hon member for Bethlehem, by saying that they produce 36% of the potatoes in the country.

That, therefore, is the reason, Sir. That is why we have three types of roads, and why the Free State is the only province which has tertiary roads. After all, the farmers’ products must get to the towns. The Free State is also the only province which helps to maintain farm roads so that the products can be delivered to the right places.

There is another reason why roads are important in the Free State and why we have so many roads. People from the Cape Province and the Transvaal drive through the Free State. [Interjections.] Yes, the CP too. I now have a strange request. There is a dual carriageway up to the Vaal River, and then it stops. I know there are a lot of people in the Transvaal, Sir, but where do all those people go when they have reached the Vaal River? I want to ask the Treasury to consider this matter when they are allocating funds for the maintenance of roads.

The Free State is not only a transit route for those two provinces. The hon member for Welkom showed quite correctly how important the gold-fields and gold are to us, but the labourers working there have to travel through my constituency to get to their homes. We have no problem with that, because we are trying to make something of this. But we need roads of a standard that can cope with this traffic.

The Free State has something else which is unique, ie SS roads. However, once the Executive Committee has decided on the SS road in my constituency, people travel that route until there is nothing left of it, Sir. We must therefore get our freeways fixed first so that the Transvaal and the Cape can find each other. We must do the same for the route to the homelands and Lesotho. Then our SS roads will come into their own and fulfil the function for which they were built by the Free State Provincial Administration. I want to make an earnest plea that this matter be looked into. I am pleased that the hon member of the Executive Committee, Mr Dreyer, has said that they foresee a greater future for SS roads. I thank them for that as well.

In my constituency there is a road which introduces the loveliest part of the Free State to the rest of the country. It is, as it were, the garden route of the Free State. This road is falling into complete disrepair. I request that this matter receive urgent consideration. It is in the area of the Free State which has the greatest tourist potential.

Business interrupted.

Mr Chairman, at the outset, I wish to raise a point of order. As I understand the Rules of Parliament in terms of which this committee is here assembled, this is a committee of Parliament. I take it as a point of privilege that the right of a member of Parliament to attend meetings of Parliament and its committees should be unhampered and unimpeded and free of any impingement upon the dignity of the members of Parliament.

As members of Parliament we are allowed to enter Parliament and, in fact, the authorities make it clear that anyone who impedes a member’s access to Parliament commits an offence. That is regarded as a breach of privilege.

We in this committee this morning are expected and required—in fact it is demanded of us—to be subjected to security searches; to conform with security arrangements, and that we empty our pockets. In my own case, my papers were examined in order to see what I was carrying. In addition to that, I have been required to surrender my parliamentary identity card in order to have attached to my person a card issued by the Reserve Bank which they have decided to use.

I say that this is an infringement of the dignity of members of Parliament. I say it is a breach of privilege because it is subjecting members of Parliament to indignities which are quite unheard of in parliamentary government in South Africa. This is due to the fact that we are meeting here in a place which is not the correct place for Parliament to meet. It is owing to the fact that an organisation other than Parliament is making the arrangements for our meeting here, and that is not in accordance with parliamentary practice. It is a gross infringement of the privilege of Parliament and its members.

Mr Chairman, on a further point of order: I agree with what the hon member for Yeoville has said. I merely want to add that it is customary for the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition (House of Assembly) to be allowed to pass unhindered even at airports of the SA Airways, and at this meeting this morning even he was subjected to these security measures and had to exchange his identity card for this Reserve Bank card. I want it placed on record that the CP objects to this in the strongest terms.

Mr Chairman, I want to associate myself with the hon member for Yeoville who expressed his displeasure at what happened here this morning. We in the Labour Party of South Africa adopt a very strong standpoint against such conduct, especially when it comes to our leadership. We know and trust that the present situation exists because security is a priority, but in this case it is a very great weakness in that it demonstrates that the privilege of members of Parliament is not protected.

Mr Chairman, on behalf of all the hon members of the House of Delegates, and not only those of a particular party, I wish to place on record our objection to the manner in which we too were subjected to a security search. We identify with the remarks and sentiments already expressed. We hope that this will not set a precedent or be repeated should similar meetings be held at venues of this nature in future.

The hon member for Yeoville expressed our feelings on this matter very adequately. We believe that as members of Parliament we cannot allow ourselves to be subjected to such security checks. They are demeaning.

Mr Chairman, we take cognisance of the standpoint of the four parties. This is a new beginning for all of us in that we have the privilege this morning of meeting in our various provincial capitals. We are not meeting in the provincial council chamber, because it does not have sufficient facilities for all of us.

I want to express my thanks to the staff of the security institution as well as the Reserve Bank who received us in such a friendly fashion this morning … [Interjections.] …and showed us where our offices and the council chamber were and even where we could have tea.

I think this is simply a ploy of the various parties to waste time this morning. We are grateful to have the privilege of meeting in our provincial capital, where the hon the Administrator and the four hon members of the Executive Committee can take part in the discussions. Once again we express our thanks for this, and we reject these standpoints of the four parties.

Mr Chairman, allow me to begin by saying that I am not certain whether it becomes either the dignity of the hon member for Alberton or that of Parliament to refer to a point of privilege as a “foefie”. I think it is an impertinence and uncalled for. [Interjections.] If that is the way in which these proceedings are going to be conducted, I think they are even more lacking in dignity than seemed the case earlier this morning.

Secondly, it is pointless to refer to the courtesy of the personnel. Neither I nor, I think, the other hon members who have raised this point have any problem with that. The reality is that the personnel were carrying out orders, and I want to know whose orders they were. Were they carrying out the orders of Parliament? Did those orders come from Mr Speaker or from you, Sir? Depending on whose orders were being carried out, the breach of privilege could be a far more serious one.

The other matter—I find this fascinating—is that hon members of the NP were apparently shown offices. I was shown no office. I do not know who was shown an office and who was not. [Interjections.] I do not know what is going on. I arrived here and found myself subjected to an indignity to which a member of Parliament is not subjected when he attends Parliament. I have certainly not been shown those facilities which the hon members of the governing party, the ruling party in South Africa, appear to have been shown. [Interjections.]

There are other matters which arise here, such as the question of who is entitled to be present and to participate in this debate. Why, for example, are we not allowed to sit in party groups? Why does our seating have to be allocated in such a manner that we have difficulty in communication? Why are all these things taking place?

If this is a committee of Parliament, then something has happened to Parliament which has changed its status and the privilege of its members dramatically. As parliamentarians, we are not prepared to tolerate this encroachment upon our rights and privileges.

Order! The hon member has taken a point of privilege, and there is no doubt that this is a matter which certainly needs to be investigated. I am not aware who issued the particular orders or what the arrangements were. This meeting is in effect a sitting of Parliament, and arrangements fall within the ambit of Mr Speaker’s responsibilities. I will endeavour to ascertain from him what the arrangements were or should be. I will also endeavour to have these arrangements changed forthwith. I cannot take the matter any further at this stage, except to say that I have taken note of the point of order raised by the hon member for Yeoville.

Mr Chairman, just before you proceed, I would like to make a request.

Order! The hon the Chief Whip may proceed.

Mr Chairman, my name is Richards and I am the Leader of the House of Representatives. Unfortunately we are not all acquainted with one another, even after four years!

The point I should like to make is that an hon member of Parliament died tragically last night. The hon member for Alra Park, Mr P S Jacobs, was murdered in his constituency in front of his church, and I wish to request that we have a moment of silence in memory of the late Mr Jacobs.

Order! This matter has been considered and finality has been reached. I wish to inform the committee that I must announce with regret that Mr P S Jacobs, LP, died yesterday evening in Alberton under tragic circumstances.

We shall not be able to adopt a motion of condolence here, but I willingly give hon members the opportunity to say something about the tragic incident, in memory of the late Mr Jacobs, if they so wish.

I now call upon the hon the Leader of the House of Representatives to speak.

Mr Chairman, I have been associated with Mr Jacobs for many years, and it is indeed a sad moment for me to stand here and think about what has happened to a person who was prepared to sacrifice not only his life, but also the future of his entire family in the interests of South Africa.

I have nothing but praise for his quality as a person because I believe he was an excellent example of the way in which every South African should approach the problems confronting this country. We will remember him as a fighter. We will remember him as a person who did not spare himself.

It is with great love and affection that we say to his family: In your hour of need, we are with you.

Mr Chairman, on behalf of the Standing Committee on Provincial Affairs: Transvaal I should like to associate myself with the motion before the committee and the sentiments that have been expressed here.

Mr Peter Jacobs was a very conscientious member of the standing committee. He never hesitated to get to the crux of matters and to do his duty as a parliamentarian. We on the standing committee will miss him a great deal.

On behalf of the members of the standing committee, I should like to express our sympathy and condolences to his family.

Mr Chairman, I wish to associate myself with the remarks of the other speakers in regard to the sad demise and tragic death of one of our colleagues. In saying this, I also want to say how deeply I regret the tragic death of this Transvaal colleague of ours and the fact that a man of such high calibre has been taken so tragically from our midst.

In associating myself with the condolences expressed by previous speakers, I want to say that on behalf of all of us here this morning I pray that he may rest in peace.

Mr Chairman, on behalf of my party I should like to express our sincere sympathy to the party of the hon member who died so tragically. We should like to associate ourselves with the words of tribute paid to him as well as the sympathy expressed to his party and his next of kin.

Mr Chairman, on behalf of the PFP I should like to express our condolences to the family of the late Mr Jacobs, and we should also like to associate ourselves with the views that have been expressed by other members of Parliament in regard to the tragic and untimely death of the member for Alra Park.

Mr Chairman, I also want to associate myself with earlier speakers. I was privileged to get to know Peter Jacobs during the period in which he was a member of Parliament. Other members of the standing committee also came to know him as a deeply religious Christian and had the privilege of meeting with him regularly on occasions of fellowship in Cape Town.

We trust that the love and comfort of God and Christ through His spirit will be with his family.

Order! Although the committee cannot agree to a motion of condolence, I think it would be appropriate if hon members would rise for a moment as an expression of respect to our late colleague and of sympathy with his next of kin.

[Members stood in silence as a token of respect.]

Order! There are a few matters that I want to mention at the outset. In the first place I want to inform hon members that I have been appointed as chairman of the Extended Public Committee on Provincial Affairs: Transvaal.

The second matter that I want to mention is that the Administrator-in-Executive Committee and I would like to invite hon members to a buffet meal in the Foyer Restaurant of the State Theatre in Church Street at 12h30 this afternoon. There was no time to inform hon members of this by means of a circular, and that is why I am making this announcement.

I should like to request hon members, whenever they speak, to indicate under which Vote or item they are addressing the Chair. This will limit inquiries from the Chair in this connection and will ensure that hon members are interrupted as little as possible while making their speeches. It will also ensure that hon members receive replies from the relevant provincial functionaries. Hon members’ co-operation in this connection will be appreciated.

Mr Chairman, I wish to raise a point of order. I wish to pose my point of order in the form of a question.

In terms of the Rules, it appears to me as though we are convened here as an extended public committee as defined in terms of Rule 34 of the Rules of Parliament.

I notice from the list of speakers that has been formally circulated that people other than members of Parliament are to address this Committee during the course of debates, and I should like to ask under what Rule of Parliament people who are not members of Parliament are entitled to address this Committee and participate in the debates.

I should like clarity in regard to who is entitled to address this Committee and participate in its debates during its sittings, and in terms of which Rules.

Order! The hon the Administrator of the Transvaal and members of the Executive Committee are entitled to participate in terms of Rule 66(4)(d).

Mr Chairman, members of the Executive Committee and hon members of Parliament: During the sitting of the standing committee on 18 March of this year in Cape Town I gave a brief introductory review of the activities of the Transvaal Provincial Administration. The members of the committee indicated that they found this information particularly useful for the expansion of their knowledge of provincial affairs. At the beginning of this debate it is therefore a great privilege for me to make introductory observations on the basis of this experience concerning the activities of the provincial government of the Transvaal. Copies of the document which I am using which at most refer to a few aspects of the province’s extensive activities will be made available to hon members at a later stage. I trust hon members will also find them valuable.

†Furthermore, Mr Chairman, we were under the impression that the different branches of activities of the province would be discussed in succession. The hon members of the Executive Committee have also prepared certain introductory notes, but then we learnt that there would be no opportunity for them to deliver those introductory notes. However, the documents they have prepared will also be available and will be circulated.

*I am merely mentioning that the Provincial Council came into existence as a legislative authority in 1910. The first session, however, only commenced on 18 January 1911. For 75 years the Provincial Council played a key role in the constitutional structure of the country, and after it was decided to abolish the Provincial Council on 30 June 1986, the final and historic meeting was held on 12 June 1986.

†The most important characteristics of the new provincial government established on 1 July 1986 in terms of the Provincial Government Act of 1986 are the following:

Firstly, the White uniracial Provincial Council and Executive Committee were abolished. Secondly, they were replaced by an Executive Committee headed by the Administrator, representing all population groups. This is the first significant level of decision-making, in addition to that of local government and more recently regional services councils, in which Blacks are also involved. Thirdly, decisions are made by means of consensus. This is the highest level of government where this decision-making procedure applies.

Fourthly, the Executive Committee has the same legislative powers as the former Provincial Council. Fifthly, provincial legislation and the Budget of the province are evaluated and considered by a Parliamentary standing committee, consisting of members of all three Houses of Parliament. Sixthly, the province only deals with general affairs, and its own affairs functions are systematically transferred to the respective own affairs administrations of the three Houses, or are dealt with on their behalf on an agency basis.

The administrative body is composed of four major components, now called “branches”, in the place of the former departments. At the head of the administrative body is the Provincial Secretary, assisted by the Executive Directors, each of whom controls one of the branches, namely, (1) General Provincial Services, (2) Hospital Services, (3) Roads and (4) Community Services. The latter also controls inter alia the Black local authorities, as well as the housing and social services of the Black population.

*I also want to refer briefly to the devolution of functions to the Administration. Various functions which have been classified as general affairs have already devolved from central Government departments to the Administration. The transfer of functions has had a significant effect on the responsibilities and the volume of work of the Administration. Unfortunately, the devolution has not always been accompanied by sufficient provision of staff, and that has placed a greater burden on existing personnel who are already working under great pressure. The following are the most important functions which have thus far been devolved:

From the Department of Constitutional Development and Planning the Administration has acquired control over, firstly, the control over Black local government; secondly, the administration of the Group Areas Act; thirdly, the prevention of unlawful squatting; fourthly, the administration and payment of social pensions to Blacks; and fifthly, Black housing, which also relates to the National Housing Commission.

The Administration took over control from the Department of National Health and Population Development of firstly, psychiatric services; secondly, contagious diseases; thirdly, full-time district surgeon services, excluding forensic services; and fourthly, the Southern and Northern Transvaal regional offices of that department.

We took over certain functions from the Department of Environment Affairs in terms of the Physical Planning Act, the Environment Conservation Act, the Forest Act and the Mountain Catchment Areas Act. When such functional transfers occur and when more than one role player has been entrusted with a particular function, it can easily happen that the various role players encroach on one another’s terrains. As far as inter-governmental relations between central and provincial government levels are concerned it is, however, gratifying to mention that the Cabinet has approved certain measures to eliminate problems which have been identified in this regard. The following are referred to inter alia:

Central line functionaries have experienced problems with the practical interpretation and application of the policy of devolution and the transfer of functions and have for understandable reasons displayed a measure of resistance to the devolution of their powers. These problems manifest themselves especially in draft legislation, policy statements and executive actions by the departments in functional spheres where the provincial administration has to fulfill an executive role in its own right. It subsequently caused the tendency to keep powers and functions centralised instead of devolving them for implementation purposes to the lowest possible level. This could for example happen by wanting to repeal existing ordinances and replace them with central equalising legislation.

I want to refer to other circumstances in this regard, but to save time, I shall not quote them; hon members will find them in the document which will be made available to them later.

I am also referring to a few basic rules for co-operation. After thorough consideration of the arranging of inter-governmental relations the Cabinet has now accepted the following basic rules for co-operation:

Firstly, the central departments responsible for the combined functional spheres which are also being dealt with by the provincial governments at executive level, have to take the initiative for the introduction of suitable co-ordinating arrangements. The particular nature of a specific functional sphere will, however, dictate the deployment of the co-ordinating structure and processes. All role players at the central as well as the provincial level of every functional terrain, both political and bureaucratic, depending on circumstances, must be involved as full-fledged members of the co-ordinating mechanisms. A clear distinction must be drawn between general and executive policy. That also applies, for example, to legislation, in order to delineate such policy-determining as well as executive powers between the relevant levels, without disregarding the Administrators’ legislative powers or provincial differences.

Throughout the parties must have a full say in determining general policy, norms, standards, national priorities and formulas for financing. Finally, the principle of devolution of powers and functions to the lowest possible level of authority must be realised.

†Now I wish to refer to the functions of the provincial administration. I should like to describe to hon members briefly how the Transvaal Provincial Administration functions, and also illustrate the future role of this Administration to some extent. In doing so, I do not intend purely to speculate or to dwell on illusions. I should like to tell hon members what we are engaged in and what we are aiming at, and I wish I could emphasise it sufficiently that what we are engaged in is crucial and of primary importance. I should like to repeat once again what I have already said on a previous occasion in respect of certain of our functions and responsibilities, namely that we in the provinces are involved in the prelude to the main performance to be enacted on the South African stage. The solidity of other structures will depend on the solidity of the foundations we are laying at the moment.

*I also want to refer to certain general functions of which the first is the General Provincial Services branch. As a result of the devolution of a variety of functions there has been a tremendous increase in the demands which have been made on this branch to provide auxiliary services, such as personnel and financial administration, management advisory services and legal administration. The organisational structures of the component have as far as possible been adapted to enable it to deal with the increased demands.

With the addition of a number of new conservation areas the number of reserves which are being controlled and managed by the Directorate: Nature Conservation, now totals 59. The Directorate has achieved remarkable successes in the breeding of rare species of game such as the roan antelope, the black wildebeest as well as the white rhino.

The Chief Directorate: Works meets the accommodation requirements of the administration and also meets the requirements of the Transvaal Education Department on an agency basis. A start will be made with the following major projects in the 1988-89 financial year. The first major project is the erection of the regional and training hospital in Ga-Rankuwa at an estimated cost of R336,4 million. The second project is the Pretoria Academic Hospital at an estimated cost of R219,5 million. The third project is the building of wards G and H at the Baragwanath Hospital at an estimated cost of R9,7 million.

†I now turn to hospital services. On 1 April 1988 the Hospital Services branch took over various executive functions from the Department of National Health and Population Development. This embraces, for instance, hospitals such as the Ga-Rankuwa, Weskoppies and Sterkfontein Hospitals and the Witrand Care and Rehabilitation Centre, as well as the Itshelejuba Hospital that is operated on behalf of the South African Development Trust for the Department of Development Aid. This brings about the transfer of a further 6 080 beds to the province. In addition a large portion of health services, provided by the National Health Department through the two Transvaal regional offices in Johannesburg and Pietersburg with a network of suboffices, was also taken over.

It is clear that the State Health Services will have to shift the accent from sophisticated treatment to more preventative treatment and treatment within the community. To achieve this, it is important that patients receiving treatment on a certain level not be admitted to a higher level where the service is much more expensive. It is further important that the National Health Services facilities plan of the Minister of National Health and Population Development is to be developed to the full. This makes provision for the most suitable facilities for specific ailments. The emphasis is therefore to a larger extent on clinic services where a greater volume of lesser ailments can be treated by staff, not highly qualified but qualified enough to render the necessary treatment.

The primary health care nursing staff is trained to diagnose certain diseases and to prescribe specially prepared medicines. Through this a large volume of less important work is channelled away from the medical practitioner, thus enabling him to pay attention to the more serious cases. Clinics or community health centres, where primary health care is supplied, also play an important role to keep less serious cases from hospitals. Only those patients who cannot be treated at clinic level will be referred to hospitals. It is therefore this administration’s declared policy to pay more attention to preventative health services.

An important development that will ensure that patients will not remain in hospital longer than necessary, is home care for patients, which is in the process of being established. Patients no longer in need of hospital treatment and care and who can be safely discharged, will be visited at home by nursing staff. Home care in relation to hospital care is much less expensive. A hospital bed occupied by such a patient can be vacated to admit a patient in need of hospital or more specialised care.

*Furthermore, I want to refer to the Roads branch. The task of this branch is the construction, maintenance and protection of roads. At present there is a network of almost 48 000 kilometres in the Transvaal, of which 29 300 kilometres are gravel roads. In the branch’s striving for a more cost-effective utilisation of its scarce funds and limited manpower, the road management system is being computerised and refined. The development of this system has been identified by the Commission for Administration as the Roads branch’s primary project for increased productivity. It is a comprehensive project which has furnished valuable management inputs in respect of the analysis of the economic justifiability and priority specification of road construction projects.

As far as personnel is concerned, the Roads branch is still working with an establishment which was approved in 1969. I did not read this incorrectly. It was really approved in 1969. This is undoubtedly an indication of the management efficiency which is being practised in the branch.

Since the abolition of the development boards on 30 June 1986, the branch has also been entrusted with the provision of maintenance of access roads to Black town in the Transvaal. Important projects which have recently been completed are the conversion of roads P91/1 and 51 at Modderfontein into dual carriageways. The conversion of the access road to Sebokeng near Vereeniging into a dual carriageway; the completion of the highest tarred road in Transvaal over the Steenkampsberg and the Kloofpas between Potgietersrus and Marken. Important projects which are presently under way are the Lenasia interchange on road 186/1, the construction of an access road to Munsieville at Krugersdorp and the construction of a link road between Mabopane and Medunsa. From additional funds which have been acquired, the conversion of the road between Kinross, Evander and Secunda into a dual carriageway will be undertaken, as well as the improvement of the so-called sugarcane roads in the Pongola area and the road system in Ermelo.

†Next, I turn to community services and the Community Service branch. As the Provincial Administration has taken over the responsibility of managing the interests of the Black population, the development boards have been abolished and 3 523 members of their staff have been absorbed in our administration. Meanwhile the 12 RSC’s, which have been decided upon for the Transvaal, have already been established and are fully operational. They are all producing sound results with exciting prospects.

*While they tell me that there are problems with the farmers—Jet me say this in Afrikaans—it has been agreed, after negotiations between the SAAU and the Government, that the farmers are at liberty to negotiate with their respective RSCs firstly, about the frequency of payment of levies and secondly, about the granting of rebates. Until such times as rural councils are established under the amending Bill relating to this, which came before Parliament recently, there is nothing preventing district agricultural unions from submitting an application, whenever they choose to do so, to be recognised as a representative body with full voting rights on a SRC.

†With a view to the closer co-operation between local authorities, co-ordinating committees have been formed with the support of the Transvaal Municipal Executive, TAMCOM and Black councils. These are informal forums for dialogue and co-operation on which councillors of local authorities within the same municipal area and representing all the population groups serve. About 60 of the 80 Black local authorities have already been involved in such co-ordinating committees. All these structures and resultant action have created a mutual spirit of understanding and a willingness to consult and co-operate as has never been the case before.

The Transvaal Provincial Administration claims a substantial amount of credit for the calm and stability prevailing in Black residential areas at present but although I lay claim to this, the presence of the security forces is not underestimated and is much appreciated. It remains our aim and task to establish orderly local government in all communities with the advantages this holds and to provide everyone with at least minimum standard facilities which are the basics needed for a decent and meaningful existence. It is therefore our aspiration and task—we are working hard on this—to replace security actions with those promoting welfare and prosperity, because it is by the latter that communities are built and people are uplifted.

Because our Black local authorities, in particular, have a poor and non-viable financial foundation and substructure, artificial remedies to support them can never ensure lasting solutions. I have therefore appointed a working group under the chairmanship of Dr Simon Brand, the chief executive officer of the Development Bank of Southern Africa, to investigate and report on the financial position of the Soweto City Council.

The working group was instructed, in the short term, to investigate and make recommendations on how to deal with the budget and cash-flow situation during the present financial year and, in the longer term, to investigate and make recommendations on a strategy for strengthening the economic and financial bases and therefore also the finances of the Soweto City Council. The first interim report dealing with the short-term issues has been received and their report on the second phase of the investigation is expected within two or three months.

We are hopeful that the solutions which will crystallize from Soweto will serve as a model for other councils too so that solutions may be found that will substantially alleviate and ultimately solve these problems.

Since October 1986, when local Black authorities became the responsibility of the Transvaal Provincial Administration, a gradual improvement in the receiving of rents and services levies in respect of local authorities in the Transvaal has been noted. This is reflected in comparing the October 1986 and February 1988 figures that I will read to hon members now. The levies for October 1986 were R21 605 380, of which R9 563 373 was received. That represented an improvement of 44,3%. The levies for February 1988 were R26 135 118, of which R18 374 169 was received. That represented an improvement of 70,3%.

The Administration will continue to render financial assistance to local authorities in merited cases on an economy of scale. However, such assistance will be in the form of loans with the provision that local authorities will do everything possible to balance their income and expenditure. Since the take-over of the housing function on 18 December 1986, 15 060 houses were erected with national housing funds and sold to inhabitants of Black towns. To date, 61 798 of the available 266 239 houses in the Transvaal have been sold. In view of the stringent economical situation experienced over the past number of years and the large number of unemployed Blacks, this is a remarkable achievement. It should be borne in mind that radical elements want to prevent the sale of houses because the rent boycott is handicapped by a successful sale.

In the 1987-88 financial year an amount of R202 134 765 was approved by the National Housing Commission for infrastructure, the upgrading of housing units and services, the purchase of land for residential purposes, self-building schemes and the surveying of land for Black housing in this province. In the 1988-89 financial year an amount of R143 million was made available for the completion of these housing projects for Blacks in our province.

The take-over of civil pensions is progressing well. Some progress has been made with the cutting out of the long queues and the congregating of people at pay-out points. The Provincial Administration has already started with the physical payment of pensions in Soweto and envisages completing the take-over by December 1988. Hopefully all pensions will be paid on a monthly basis by March 1989.

*Since the Budget has already been discussed at length this year at the meetings of the Standing Committee on Provincial Affairs, only a few references are being made to it. In contrast to the draft budget for 1987-88 the 1988-89 draft budget shows an increase of 20,85% or R559 522 000. This could be considered a dramatic increase, but if one bears in mind that an amount of R264 713 000 may be ascribed to the take-over of various functions with effect from 1 April 1988, the increase in real terms is a mere R294 800 000, which represents an increase of 10,98%.

It should be borne in mind that the carry-through effect of the 12,5% salary adjustments, with effect from 1 July 1987, and the improvement in the conditions of service of certain professions, with effect from various dates during 1987, also had a significant effect on the increase. Of the amount of R3 243 million which has been requested for the 1988-89 financial year, R529 158 000 has been contributed from own income. That means that this Administration has increased its own income by 17,8%. This step, however unpopular it may be, was taken because functions which were entrusted to this Administration could simply no longer be effectively implemented with the funds which were being allocated from the Exchequer.

The financing of services is unfortunately a problem with which the entire Government Service is struggling at present, but after repeated representations by this Administration, it is gratifying to be able to say that indications are that attempts are being made to try to find a more scientific method according to which the eventual distribution of the available funds can be made among the various role players.

From what I have presented to hon members and from the ensuing discussion and replies, hon members will realise the enormous scope and importance of the functions performed by the province. In addition to what has already been established, the Administration, as a development instrument, has a decisive role to play and it is the goal of the executive committee, the top management of the Administration and I to perform this task properly, with dedication and with flair. Almost all the functions which the province performs have an effect on the individual in a very direct and intimate way in terms of his daily existence. For that reason it is also accepted that the Administration, besides its task of controlling and supervising, also has a particular supportive and service-rendering task which it similarly wants to perform with enthusiasm and compassion.

I trust that this short session will be of value to hon members in terms of the acquisition of information relating to the widely divergent field of operations of the provincial government. I trust it will stimulate an understanding for the important responsibilities with which the provinces are entrusted and that we shall joint forces as partners and supporters in the service of even the most humble.

I conclude by welcoming hon members to the Transvaal. I trust that our time together will be fruitful and pleasant.

Mr Chairman, on behalf of the standing committee I thank the hon the Administrator and the members of the Executive Committee, the Provincial Secretary and senior members of staff, for their co-operation with the standing committee. During the past two years we have agreed to various ordinances and have already discussed two budgets. We were impressed by the enthusiasm with which they tackled their task, their frankness to the standing committee and their thorough knowledge of the matters they were dealing with. Questions were answered very frankly and hon members’ problems received a great deal of attention.

This morning the hon members were privileged to get an overview of the functions of the Administration, and hon members will therefore realise how valuable hon members of the standing committee found the explanation by the hon the Administrator. We are sorry to take our leave of the hon the Administrator, but we wish him and his wife a very pleasant retirement. We should also like to congratulate and welcome Mr Danie Hough. He is no stranger to those of us on this side of the Committee; many of us served with him on the former Provincial Council and have worked with him in other posts which he has held.

This is a very historic debate. It is not only the first joint debate, but it is also the first time that an Extended Committee of Parliament has met in the capital of the Transvaal. This will also be the first time that the hon the Administrator and the MECs will participate in the activities of this public committee. When those of us on this side of the committee advocated this procedure last year we did not think it would come into operation so soon. We realise that the rapid implementation of this will cause certain growing pains and we understand the problems of hon members. However, we have every confidence that these problems can be intercepted, particularly if we take into account—having listened to the hon the Administrator—how important it is for this debate to take place in public and in the capital, Pretoria.

Today the Administration is probably the largest agent for development in the country. I am referring to Vote 1, “General Administration”. The hon the Administrator’s view of his duties is also very revealing in this regard. The estimate of R3,2 billion for the Transvaal can be measured against different Votes of Parliament. Then we find that if the obligations in respect of loans are not taken into account in the Finance Vote, only the Votes for Defence, Administration: House of Assembly and Development Aid exceed it in size. Of the amount of R3,2 billion 17,8% is being collected from own sources and the balance is being voted by the central Government. The legislative powers are subject to the approval of the Standing Committee.

According to the Transvaal budget this Administration’s functions are divided into eight Votes. According to monetary value the most important of these are hospital services, community services and roads and bridges. This side of the Committee will give attention to these subjects and hon members will single out the matters in respect of their constituencies and regions on which they would like to debate.

We want to thank the hon the Administrator for the document of the Directorate: Nature Conservation which we received here this morning. Hon members of the Standing Committee have been provided with reports from time to time, but we are really looking forward to a combined annual report on the activities of all the departments, and we hope that in future this will be at our disposal before this debate so that we can also make the necessary use of it. I hope the review will give hon members a great deal of insight into the activities of all the departments. Until such times as it can be arranged that we receive the annual report prior to the debate, I think this will help hon members a great deal.

I also want to take this opportunity to express my regret that owing to the course of events we could not accept the invitation issued by the hon the Administrator last year to show hon members the departments and explain things to them. However, we hope that the invitation will be issued again in future. We also hope that after this debate hon members will postpone other matters in order to get this important insight into the functions of the Administration of the Transvaal.

†We on this side of the committee consider the Transvaal Administration of vital importance. It affects the lives of millions of people. That is why we intend to debate that Administration’s activities in depth in this Committee. As I have said, the standing committee has considered the Budget; we have received certain replies, and today we have received an overview from the hon the Administrator. In the standing committee we have probed into various votes and programmes; we have received information and explanations. I trust every hon member was afforded every opportunity to ask questions and receive replies. Certain lengthy replies were also given in writing. Therefore we on this side of the Committee do not intend to be side-tracked by irrelevancies, as we consider this debate of too much importance because, as I have said, of the vital role it plays. However, if we are side-tracked and do not debate the matter before us, we feel we will fail in our duties to our constituencies. Therefore, we on this side of the Committee intend to discuss this very serious subject before us in depth.

Mr Chairman, I want to make my contribution to this historic debate in the South African Parliament insofar as it concerns the structure of reform. This is probably one of the most historically significant debates because the provincial debate is taking place during the first meeting of the extended public committee.

I want to associate myself immediately with the hon member for Nelspruit, who conveyed his greetings to the hon the Administrator. On behalf of the House of Representatives I want to wish the hon the Administrator a fruitful period of rest. A foreman like him deserves his rest.

To be participating in the Transvaal provincial debate must not be regarded as cold water on a duck’s back, but the way we see provincial government at present, it is a chilling and cold organisation. Nothing drastic has come from the province yet. I should now like to clarify my standpoints in the light of the political atmosphere and the developments we are experiencing at present.

To me the Provincial Vote No 2—“Library and Museum Services”—continues to be a cancer as far as progress is concerned, and it reinforces partition during the period of reform. In the joint committee meeting in Cape Town we were told that the province intended to establish own museums for our people. [Interjections.] That is a ridiculous premise on the part of the province.

I ask what it is we are eliminating. Is the province doing a somersault in respect of the previous year’s opening address by the hon the State President in which he said that the concept of colonial apartheid was outdated? Now suddenly they are doing a somersault and entrenching and reinforcing apartheid by continuing to establish our own museums and our own libraries for us. Apartheid cannot continue to be entrenched further and further by their wanting to erect our own museums for us.

That kind of building is merely going to cause the bitterness and the frustration of the past to flare up among the inhabitants. The past will also be displayed in public and resentment about the past will be reinforced.

With reference to those who want this, I realise it is difficult to display history such as that of Simon van der Stel in public.

I should like to discuss library services further. It is the province’s task to tell the local authorities that we are wasting funds. The unnecessary duplication must be eliminated. One library open to all races is the answer to South Africa’s problems. Public facilities must be used by everybody.

I get the impression that the Whites still want to try to prevent our people from getting on in life. Whites are afraid because Blacks will be better qualified if they yearn for a little learning.

It is of cardinal importance to make an exception of this culture which is a weapon of consciousness for my people. One national culture, not an ethnic culture, is the answer to the country’s problems. Therefore it is essential for the White Afrikaners to sacrifice their own character or their own history.

It is high time that White Afrikaners realised once and for all that the time for “jointocracy” has come. The time of “pigmentocracy” has passed for ever. We must build bridges now. We must be convinced of the necessity for cultural contact, because culture knows no colour.

We shall have to live through troubled nights if we go ahead with the building of own libraries and museums in our residential areas. Today I want to tell the hon the Administrator to open the door so that I can come inside and be counted, to rid South Africa of the mess of apartheid. I must not be cheated of my rights by a confused influence.

N P van Wyk Louw spoke about a liberal nationalism, a nationalism which looks beyond the aspirations of an own people and leaves room for the aspirations of others … [Interjections] … a nationalism which can also see the nationalism of another world beyond South Africa’s horizon.

I want to tell hon members that it is this generosity of spirit and vision which causes me to believe sc passionately in the idea of participation. On this basis people will not only acquire a shared interest in national events, but they also get an opportunity to make their own contributions and to compete.

Let us not view developments in the constitutional sphere from a perspective of fear, but from a perspective of trust and mutual acceptance in the search for peace and progress in South Africa.

Mr Chairman, today is indeed a red-letter day in the history of South Africa. This historic exercise has begun with a solemn message regarding the passing away of a great South African. Although tributes have already been paid, I do not want to fail to mention that the late Peter Jacobs gave his life in the cause of the survival of humanity in South Africa. I hope and pray that, for the good of all South Africans, this exercise will continue in the spirit which was intended, and that it will serve its intended purpose.

Having heard the detailed overview in the report of the hon the Administrator, I am indeed pleased to note the progress and the various developments and advancements that have taken place during the short period in which he has held office. If I had the opportunity I would propose a motion opposing his retirement.

There are many issues, and I would like to highlight a few of them rather than going into hard-core politics. After all, being a realist and a negotiator, I believe that in the circumstances in which I find myself and those of my community, there are issues that have to be highlighted. Having done so, I will naturally expect the relevant authorities to take cognisance of these issues and give them the requisite attention in accordance with reforms in South Africa.

As I say, this is an historic occasion to have the Transvaal component of hon members of Parliament meeting in the executive capital of Pretoria today to discuss the Budget of the Transvaal Provincial Administration with the hon the Administrator and members of his Executive Committee. Of course, Sir, quite understandably, the Province of the Transvaal is one of the biggest in the country and its Budget is in fact an in-depth Budget, much larger than those of other provinces. Although we have been participants in the standing committee, I am now beginning to realise, with respect, that two days may not be sufficient to discuss in detail all the implications of a vast province like the Transvaal.

The hon the Administrator made a very important point here. He said that the solidity of a country is dependent on local government. Therefore, the very fact that this exercise is being carried out here today where it should be carried out, means that all the implications of bread-and-butter issues must be addressed and discussed.

One of the problems facing the Indian community in the Transvaal is the unification of Lenasia South and Lenasia East. I have personally negotiated this matter and the members of the Lenasia Management Committee have also negotiated this matter together with other authorities. This matter was discussed with the Johannesburg Municipality, together with the hon the Administrator and his Executive in the Transvaal.

No two contiguous areas can afford the luxury of different authorities, one being a peri-urban authority and the other being the Johannesburg Municipality. I do understand that there are certain circumstances obtaining that have given rise to this situation, but from a logical point of view I want to impress upon the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee that by virtue of the circumstances and the representations made, they should apply their minds to accelerating the possibility of the unification of Lenasia South and Lenasia East.

I want to say that I am pleased that the 12 regional services councils are operational in the Transvaal, and I want to thank the hon the Administrator and the Executive Committee for their efforts in this regard. While the regional services councils appear to be functioning very well in the Transvaal, I should like the member of the Executive Committee in charge of local government to give us a brief report on the successful implementation of these councils. I should also like to know whether the system of regional services councils will be extended to all management committees, community councils and town councils so that they can meet and discuss general matters affecting a town council. I should also like to ask what the policy of the Transvaal Provincial Administration is in regard to parity in salaries of White and non-White councillors in relation to the grading of respective local authorities.

In regard to recreational facilities and public resorts, hardly any outdoor recreational facilities apart from Roodeplaat Rusoord exist for members of my community. The facilities that they enjoyed in the past at Badplaas and Warmbaths have been discontinued. I should like to know from the hon member of the Executive Committee in charge of these matters whether the facilities at Badplaas and Warmbaths will again be opened in the future and, if so, would he please indicate when such a measure will be introduced; if not, why not? Why are the facilities at Loskop Dam near Witbank restricted exclusively to the use of Whites only. I believe that the hon member of the Executive Committee in charge of these matters has a moral responsibility to provide equal facilities for all population groups. If equal facilities cannot be provided, then existing facilities have to be shared. It may be submitted as a defence that these resorts fall under own affairs. However, the funds for such resorts have come from the general rating fund to which every South African regardless of race or colour has made a contribution. We must remove politicalideology from the recreational arena. If we want meaningful reconciliation then the hon members of the Executive Committee must take serious note of the need to introduce a policy that allows the intermingling of the various race groups.

As far as nature conservation is concerned, I note with a degree of satisfaction that a substantial amount is to be spent in this regard. I want specifically to refer to the Dinjala Nature Reserve where training facilities for nature conservation officers are, inter alia, to be provided. I should like to know whether these facilities are to be open to all races, which reserves are open to all races and which are restricted to use by Whites exclusively.

There have recently been some finds in the Nelspruit area in regard to the Dravidian Cult, and certain controversial statements have been made in this regard. This matter has also been discussed in Parliament. I should like to impress upon the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee to apply their minds to the fact that this is indeed a sensitive issue, and that only when we have established the absolute truth of this find should any further decision be taken.

With this, Sir, I wish to thank the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee for their initiative and for the progress that has already been made and, on behalf of the House of Delegates, I wish this exercise every success.

Order! Before I call upon the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly to speak, I first want to react to the point of order raised by the hon member for Yeoville.

†It has now been arranged that the ordinary Parliamentary permit will grant access to what can be termed for the time being the Parliamentary precincts of this building. There will be no searching of hon members or of their possessions.

*Access to this part of the building will take place by means of displaying the usual Parliamentary permit. There will be no searching of hon members or of their possessions, and hon members are welcome, at a later stage, to exchange the tickets which they have in their possession at present for their Parliamentary permits.

Mr Chairman, I should like to address the Committee in regard to Vote No 1—“General Administration”.

Before going any further, I should like to associate myself with the kind thoughts which have been conveyed here to the hon the Administrator. We are paying tribute to a person who has rendered service in public life for a long time. I also believe that the hon the Administrator and Mrs Cruywagen will take many pleasant memories of public life with them. My party should like to associate itself with the good wishes which have been conveyed to them. We hope they will enjoy a very pleasant period of rest. We also hope that after his retirement the hon the Administrator will be able to say what he wants to!

Mr Chairman, I want to refer briefly to the hon member from the House of Representatives. He made a few remarks here which I should like to touch upon in passing. I want to say that his few remarks about the Afrikaner people sounded to me like a few cannon shots fired across the bow of the Afrikaner people’s ship, the message being: “Sink yourselves”. In all friendliness I want to tell him: Forget it. In all civility I am telling him that no people with a grain of self-respect would do that—not on the instructions nor at the request of a member of any other community or people.

I want to make a second observation. With regard to his reference to N P van Wyk Louw I can just mention that there are many people who read Van Wyk Louw. I do not know whether the hon member has allowed himself to be seduced by the name Louw. However, I can show him a few examples of what Van Wyk Louw said regarding peoples in South Africa, and even about races in South Africa, which might make his ears tingle. It was the same Van Wyk Louw who said that even if we were to wake up one morning and by some dispensation we had all turned green, the good Lord would still pick us up by the scruff of our necks and give us a home according to tribe, language, people and nation. It was the same Van Wyk Louw who also said that we would only be able to achieve the equality which some people in South Africa advocated over the dead body of an entire people.

I therefore want to tell the hon member that I do not believe he is fostering goodwill in this way. I think what he said there should rather have been left unsaid.

Mr Chairman, at the start of these proceedings the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly would like to take this first opportunity to express its vehement displeasure and dismay at the distasteful way in which the governing party is using the new Standing Rules of Parliament to transfer what we consider to be a pernicious policy of power-sharing to the provinces. The CP maintains that this practice is a continuation of the process of integration to which the Government has committed itself, by which other peoples jointly govern Whites. We as Afrikaners, and fellow-Whites who associate ourselves with Afrikaner aspirations, who in earlier days undertook a Great Trek—our ancestors—and were involved in a war to the death because we refused to be governed by other peoples, hereby place on record once again our deeply-felt aversion to be jointly ruled by other peoples and ethnic groups. [Interjections.]

I want to state clearly that as far as we are concerned we have no intention whatsoever of governing any other people. However, we shall maintain and advocate the right to be governed by our own people until we no longer exist or until we have won!

Mr Chairman, we dispute the argument that these exercises we are engaging in today in Pretoria, Cape Town, Bloemfontein and Pietermaritzburg are an extension of democracy. All four the provinces are being governed by administrators with MECs from the various population groups, appointed by the hon the State President and accountable to him through the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning. Democratically elected provincial councils have been abolished. That is no extension of democracy; on the contrary it is a curtailment of it. We are participating here in a macabre dance of death around the dying embers of the fires of democracy, and in the process the voters are exposed to what we consider to be an objectionable political confidence trick.

Cape Town is the legislative capital of South Africa. During these two days the benches of the three Houses of Parliament in Cape Town are gathering dust. Approximately 75% of the members of Parliament, plus a large number of officials of Parliament, including Hansard reporters and clerks, now have to travel to Pretoria, Bloemfontein and Pietermaritzburg. They have to be provided with accommodation. Sufficient security measures also have to be taken at the four meeting places. I interrupt myself here merely to say that it is really the limit that when one wants to be let through a door one is told that one might have a nail in the sole of one’s shoe and therefore one cannot enter!

As I said, adequate security measures and many other arrangements have to be made at the four meeting places. According to our estimates all these arrangements cost approximately R100 000, in addition to the amounts which are budgeted for the cost of the normal Parliamentary session which is held in Cape Town.

This is happening while all the facilities of Parliament, with the officials, remain available at no additional cost. The Parliamentary programme comes to a halt while members of Parliament meet in the provincial capitals.

Mr Chairman, I want to make a fourth observation. Opposition parties are being reduced to being irrelevancies. [Interjections.] That hon member will not say that for much longer. This is happening without Opposition Whips having been consulted according to tradition. They were merely convened and informed as to how speaking turns and speaking times had been allocated. Therefore we are now being confronted with the following, completely inadequate situation. [Interjections.] That hon Whip should rather listen. Mr Chairman, the fact is that some people cannot crack a whip without it striking them behind their own ear.

Let us consider the situation in Natal. Natal’s total debating time is 720 minutes. Of that a quarter, in other words 180 minutes, has been allocated to the hon the Administrator and the MECs. To the NP, who together with the hon the Administrator and the MECs propagate the Government standpoints, 200 minutes have been allocated. In total the Government and the NP therefore have 380 minutes.

To the House of Representatives 140 minutes have been allocated; to the House of Delegates, 70 minutes; to the CP, 40 minutes; to the PFP, 30 minutes; to the NDM, 10 minutes and to the Independents, 10 minutes. Therefore the NP has 53,8% of the time at its disposal, while all the opposition parties in the House of Assembly have 13,6% of the time at their disposal. [Interjections.]

I want to elucidate the importance of this kind of democracy in another way. In the Transvaal the NP has received 49% of the votes and the CP 35%. That includes all the parties and all the groups.

How many seats did you get?

The NP has received 190 minutes, which amounts to 40% of the debating time of all the parties. The CP has received 40 minutes, which amounts to 9% of the debating time.

After all, you only have 22 seats.

The PFP with its 11% of the votes has received 30 minutes, which amounts to 6%, yet the House of Representatives which received 3% of the vote in the Transvaal, has received 140 minutes, which amounts to 30% of the time.

That is untrue and the hon the Leader knows it!

The Indians who received 1% of the votes in the Transvaal, have received 70 minutes, which amounts to 15% of the debating time of the parties.

The total debating time in the Orange Free State is 480 minutes. The hon the Administrator and the hon members of the Executive Committee have received 120 minutes, which is a quarter of the time, while the NP has received 150 minutes. Together they therefore have 270 minutes at their disposal.

How much time did you ask for?

The House of Representatives has received 100 minutes; the House of Delegates, 40 minutes, the CP 30 minutes and the PFP, 20 minutes. The Government has therefore received 56,25% of the time, while all the opposition parties in the House of Assembly together have received 10,4% of the time. [Interjections.]

Hon members should look at this from another angle. The NP, with 57% of the votes has received 44% of the parties’ debating time. The CP, with 37% of the votes, has received 9% of the debating time.

How many seats do you have?

The PFP with 2% of the votes has received 6% of the debating time; the House of Representatives with 4% of the votes, has received 29% of the parties’ debating time and the Indians …

How much time did the AWB get?

I wish that hon member would stop being so inane.

The House of Delegates, with no votes in the Orange Free State, has received 12% of the parties’ debating time. The CP wants to know whether that is the NP’s image of democracy in the new dispensation. It is not only a farce, it is a disgrace.

The same applies to the Cape. The debating time there is 690 minutes of which a quarter goes to the hon the Administrator and the hon members of the Executive Committee. The NP, with 45% of the votes has received 200 minutes; the House of Representatives, with 30% of the votes has received 145 minutes, which represents 29% of the debating time; the House of Delegates, with 0,3% of the votes has received 75 minutes, and the CP, with 11% of the votes, has received 40 minutes, which amounts to 8% of the debating time. The PFP with 12% of the votes has received 30 minutes, which amounts to 6% of the debating time. We can go on in this way. The Government has therefore received 53,6% of the debating time, while the entire opposition in the House of Assembly has received 11,6%. [Interjections.]

We maintain that the extremely unfair and calculated discrimination against the CP is further illustrated very clearly by the following examples. In the Free State the CP, with 60 000 voters who supported their policy on 6 May, has received 30 minutes’ debating time. In the same debate, the Coloureds, with 6 000 votes has received 100 minutes’ debating time. Yet the Indians, who did not receive any votes in the Free State and cannot have any interest in the Free State Budget, have received 40 minutes more debating time than the CP. I think any unprejudiced person would concede that there is a disparity here.

In the Cape and in Natal certain adjustments in the debating time have been made in order to give the Indians more time in Natal and the Coloureds more time in the Cape in accordance with their numbers, and the CP says that that is fair enough. In the Transvaal, where the CP received 383 000 votes with 22 seats, which is 100 000 votes more than the Coloureds’ voting total for the entire RSA, no adjustments have been made for the CP. In the Transvaal, the CP with its 383 000 votes received 40 minutes’ debating time, while the Coloureds’ 35 000 votes have earned them 140 minutes’ debating time!

Those are simply the figures and the numbers which will swamp that side of the Committee if they proceed with this system of theirs. Regardless of the power-sharing principle which is under discussion here, these injustices indicate nothing but a calculated attempt to deprive the CP voters of their democratic rights in these debates in favour of the Coloureds and the Indians. The 547 502 CP voters in the RSA are receiving a total of 150 minutes of the debating time, while 272 000 Coloured voters are receiving 465 minutes and 83 000 Indian voters 335 minutes. Such an unfair system calls for the maximum degree of censure and opposition and we are expressing it here this afternoon. [Interjections.]

This attempt to render the CP irrelevant as the Official Opposition is further supported by the clearly spelt-out standpoint of the Labour Party which claims, inter alia, that they are the Official Opposition and that they want this established as a convention. If they get their way and bring Blacks into the parliamentary system, they will not count at all because we shall then have a Black opposition. [Interjections.] Hon members should just think again. They have not even begun to think about the basic issues in South Africa.

The CP considers the arguments and the factual statements which I have just mentioned in such a serious light that we shall now demonstrate our opposition to the inconsiderate distortion of the system by withdrawing from this Committee. We shall return to this Committee tomorrow. [Interjections.]

Mr Chairman, it is indeed a privilege for me to take part in this historic debate, but at the same time it is a sad moment when one thinks that while one of our colleagues paid the supreme sacrifice yesterday for his willingness to participate, co-operate and seek a constitutional solution for South Africa, there are parties in this country which are prepared to undermine the system on the basis of technicalities. Mr Chairman, if it were not for the fact that you called me to order, I would have said it was disgraceful.

What are the facts? While we are gathered here to debate serious matters, viz the interests of the people we represent, the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly made an emotional address this afternoon about technical points such as the allocation of time. It is very clear that he has no idea of the way in which this system functions. It does not function purely on the basis of numbers.

There is another very important and interesting perspective on what we saw here, however. In reality this afternoon the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly was introducing a motion of no-confidence in his own Whips’ ability to negotiate. The fact is that when the Whips negotiated for debating time, the CP requested 15 minutes in the Cape. They were granted 40 minutes. In Natal they requested 15 minutes, and they were granted 40 minutes. In the Free State they requested 15 minutes, and were granted 30 minutes.

And what did you do to us?

In the Transvaal, the CP requested 20 minutes and was granted 40 minutes. [Interjections.]

I should like to react to the PFP. In the Cape they requested 15 minutes and were granted 30 minutes.

You are misleading the committee.

In Natal they requested 15 minutes …

Mr Chairman, may I interrupt myself on a point of order and ask whether it is permissible for the hon member for Yeoville to claim that I am misleading the committee?

Order! No, it is not permissible. The hon member for Yeoville must withdraw that.

Mr Chairman, I shall withdraw it and I shall say …

Order! The hon member knows as well as I do that the withdrawal should be unconditional.

I withdraw it unconditionally.

Thank you, that is all I want to know.

It is untrue!

The CP requested only 65 minutes in total for the provincial debates, but were granted 150 minutes.

That is untrue!

Is the hon member talking on behalf of the CP now? [Interjections.] I would prefer to talk about serious things.

Mr Chairman, may I ask the hon member a question?

Mr Chairman, I have already had to sacrifice a lot of my time because of a point of order. I am not prepared to reply to questions.

Yes, because you cannot answer.

I should like to talk about a very serious matter this afternoon. This morning we in this House were in the position of having to pay tribute to a colleague we lost yesterday. The hon member for Randburg referred to this hon member and to occasions on which we saw one another on a regular basis. I also had the privilege of meeting that hon member there, and I regard the loss of Peter Jacobs as a personal loss, and indeed a loss for all moderates who are seeking constitutional solutions to South Africa’s problems.

This was not the only serious onslaught this weekend on people who are prepared to seek solutions within a constitutional system, however. People in Soweto also paid the supreme sacrifice yesterday. This augurs ill for the atmosphere in which we shall have to fight municipal elections later this year. I think there are people in each community who are earnestly seeking solutions in the best interests of their communities. I also had the privilege this weekend of entertaining a council member from KwaThema, in addition to my own voters, at my home. KwaThema is my constituency’s neighbouring town. This council member had serious discussions with me about the imminent municipal elections and about his anxiety in this respect.

The events which we were informed of this morning reminded me of the privilege I had of visiting the very unfortunate country of El Salvador at the end of 1979 when our ambassador there had been kidnapped. There I saw what happens in a community that permits itself to become totally polarised and divided into fighting groups. We must not ignore the danger signs in our own country. It is my prayer that those of us who work within the system, even if we differ with one another, will differ in such a way in these municipal elections this year that we will not play into the hands of those who want to tear our country apart, because there are fundamental dangers.

It is essential that we differ with regard to the differences between us in such a way that we shall debate those differences seriously, but responsibly. Against that background I should like to appeal for all of us who work within the system to make a contribution to establish the structures which have been and are being created to promote co-operation between communities. I am referring specifically to the RSCs, which are still in their infancy. It is a fact that even our friends in the CP—who saw fit to withdraw from here today—acknowledge the permanent physical presence of Blacks in all our metropolises in the same country. Consequently their official policy states that Blacks should enjoy representation at least up to the level of local government. The mere fact that we live together in geographic units and share certain facilities and interests with one another, makes it essential for us to talk to one another about those interests, and to serve the best interests of those people we appoint there. In this connection the RSCs provide an important opportunity which we dare not pass up.

Mr Chairman …

Hear, hear!

… this is a very important moment for me. Is is important in South Africa’s history that people begin to get together. Therefore, I cannot understand what happened earlier today.

†To me and, I am sure, to the rest of South Africa it is quite clear that South Africa will never be the same again. The hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly and his party know that and if they want to remain in the South Africa that they know, then there is no solution to the problems of South Africa. I want to say, without any fear of contradiction, that the alternative the CP offers to South Africa is certainly no solution.

It is laughable!

It is an escalation of the problem. I want to say, with respect, that what they are offering is annihilation. We will have to learn to live together or otherwise perish as fools in this country.

*The price of apartheid is too high a price to pay. What the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly and his party, and to a certain extent the NP, are offering us, is certainly too expensive. We simply cannot afford it any more.

†I want to go back to the opening address of the hon the State President where he placed emphasis on the economy of this country. I then want to say that it is a contradiction if he still wants to duplicate facilities in this country. If, on the one hand, we have concern for the economy of this country, let us then carry it right through to its absolute logical conclusion.

Order! Can the hon member indicate to me on which Vote he is talking?

Yes, Mr Chairman, it is Vote No 1: “General Administration”.

Order! The hon member must come closer to the Vote.

I shall do so with pleasure, Mr Chairman.

If we wish to administer this country successfully—I presume I am discussing the Vote now— we shall have to give attention to the way we govern this country. When we look at the economy of this country, we can see that we cannot afford to pay twice or three times for the same thing.

†One only has to look at hospital services in this country. I want to say that although I agree that we are not a welfare state, I still believe it is the duty of any democratic country to look after the health of its citizens. In this beautiful province of ours, there is only one hospital for Coloureds. I am not asking for more Coloured hospitals, but I am just trying to point out to hon members how ridiculous the policy of apartheid in hospital services is.

If one wants to regionalise health care, how will one divide one hospital in such a vast province? That will have to be done if one wants to carry apartheid to its logical conclusion. It is absolutely impossible, and therefore I ask the hon the Administrator and his Executive to have another look at hospital services.

Without any fear of contradiction, I say that we have an adequate number of hospitals in this country. On the one hand, it is unnecessary to have an oversupply of empty beds and, on the other hand, to have an undersupply of beds. [Interjections.] I want to ask when we are going to build a second hospital in Soweto. In the same breath I also want to say that if we come to our senses there will not be the need for another hospital in Soweto! Enough beds are available in the region, if only hospitals can be shared.

The separation of the twins at Baragwanath has proved to us very recently—with a bit of dynamic medicine—that we can take our rightful place in the world of medicine. There the concern was for two individuals and not their colour. We have been concerning ourselves with colour for too long. I therefore find it so strange that the hon members ridicule the hon Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly and the hon members of his party and yet the majority of us are as guilty because we gave birth to that kind of thinking.

*We must come to our senses!

†Let us turn hospital services in this province and in this country into something we can be proud of. We have the facilities and we have the trained personnel. Let us share. We should not have a Johannesburg hospital—in over-abundance— which is mostly half-empty whereas at Coronationville and Baragwanath people are mostly sleeping on the floor.

With all due respect, I want to invite hon members to visit my hospital—an institution which I am very proud of, where some of the finest doctors in this country have been trained and which has rendered some of the finest medical services. This is only possible because of the dedication of those who serve there. It certainly was not due to the encouragement they got from the Government or the provincial administration in particular.

My earnest appeal is for a redistribution of the resources. I want to come back—I must come back—to the reality of the situation as someone who is concerned about the economy of the country. Let us look at what we can and cannot afford. We certainly cannot afford to carry on in this foolish manner perpetuating apartheid and apartheid services. We certainly cannot afford to continue duplicating and triplicating facilities.

Let us use this historic occasion to make our entry into the world community. Let us take, or begin to take, our rightful place in world society. Let us stop embarrassing ourselves and citizens of this country in particular.

I think of the Zola Budds of this country who have had to leave the shores of this country simply because they have talent. To share that talent with the rest of the world they have to be embarrassed outside. It is absolutely ridiculous that a person with talent has to sell his soul simply because he wants to share it.

*Surely it is ridiculous for a healthy person to have to advertise in a newspaper for a wife because he wants to participate in world sport.

Mr Chairman, this afternoon the hon member for Toekomsrus referred to a specific matter. I mention this with reference to the remarks which were made by the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition (House of Assembly), namely that we want to govern ourselves and that we do not want others governing us. The Leader of the Official Opposition is so concerned about governing himself—he does not want others to govern over or together with him—yet he has no objection to the NP having governed alone for many years over so many other people who also live in this country. It is in this regard that I mention the speech made by the hon member for Toekomsrus.

It is the first time since the accession of that community of the House of Representatives to parliamentary level that they have the right to help govern their own affairs as well as affairs which concern all of us. It is the hon member’s privilege this afternoon to negotiate for better hospitals for their community.

I should like to discuss Vote No 6, “Roads”. Last year I said in Parliament that this year we would celebrate the 150th anniversary of the Great Trek, yet we are as divided now as the Voortrekkers themselves were in 1838. We are celebrating the 150th anniversary of the year in which that Great Trek began, yet the Great Trek is not over yet—urbanisation is still taking place and people are continuing to stream to the Transvaal.

That causes even greater pressure on the provision of roads in our province. It is not only the increasing population of the Transvaal, but also the development in the various areas of the Transvaal which bring much greater pressure to bear on existing roads and on the provision of new roads in our province.

I want to single out a few aspects which increase this pressure, such as the establishment and development of decentralised growth points in the Transvaal—Secunda, Ellisras and others. Other factors are the development of the Black states and the self-governing national states with the accompanying commuter traffic, which to an increasing extent is by car and minibus; the new power stations and coal mines in the Eastern Transvaal Highveld; the problems in the Border area of the North-Western Transvaal and the development in the PWV area which in itself is the largest single growth point in the country.

I have referred to the development in the Eastern Transvaal—Secunda, the coal mines and the power stations. Unfortunately the hon member for Middelburg took to the road during the Vote discussion on roads. Therefore I might as well refer to the maintenance of roads. Roads in that area are being destroyed by heavy vehicles. An ordinary single axle truck causes the same damage as do 4 700 passenger vehicles. Thát is a single axle truck carrying a normal load.

A truck carrying a double load—a load which is therefore twice as much as the load for which the truck was designed—causes 16 times as much damage. That truck causes the same damage as 75 000 passenger vehicles would cause at the same time. In addition to the need for new roads, the maintenance and repair of damaged roads are a very high priority. The need for the provision and repair of roads and the acquisition of finances for this are unfortunately in inverse proportion to one another. The greater the need the lower the funds.

Therefore it is a good thing for us to take note of the Budget, especially of the budgeted amount for this financial year with regard to roads in the Transvaal. The Roads branch asked for R650 million. In fact the need was for R1,1 billion. They only asked for R650 million, and of that they only received R520 million. The budgeted amount, after certain additional functions were added, is R546 million. I am mentioning this merely for the sake of the correctness of the figures in the Budget documents.

During the past 16 years the budgeted amount for roads in the Transvaal Budget has declined percentage-wise from 25,9% to 18% this year. The average growth in the increase of the budgeted amount over the 16 year period was 11,7%. The budgeted amount for hospital services increased during the same period of 16 years by an average of 18,2%, that for nature conservation by 17,5%, that for local government by 29,2% and that for works by 30,5%.

Over the years a tremendous backlog has developed in the Transvaal in respect of the provision of roads. The backlog in respect of the provision of new roads and the repair of existing roads is at present estimated to be approximately R893 million. Because this is the case, quite a few roads were neglected this year. The PWV-9, which would have by-passed Pretoria has had to be abandoned. Road 206-1 and road 158-1 have been abandoned or postponed. Roads 205-1, P38-1, P16-1, K-96 and K-198, as well as road P59-1, road 51 and several other roads have either been abandoned or have been postponed to a later date. The need for those roads is, nevertheless, very great.

When we discuss roads there is, however, quite a long list of roads the construction of which has merely been postponed. The construction or tarring of quite a number of roads has either been scrapped or shelved because the province simply does not have the money to proceed. It is of course true that the State’s finances are merely a bolt of cloth from which many items have to be cut. Everyone is merely entitled to as much as the claims of all the other claimants would allow. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, Parliament has progressed from the stage of standing committees to extended committees such as this one, and we await the next logical step of joint parliamentary debates. We have opted for participation politics in order to find ourselves, and the CP’s exercise in rhetoric here this afternoon was regrettable. Even more regrettable is the fact that since the advent of the tricameral Parliament, we have come no closer to accommodating our Black brothers in Parliament. The appointment of Mr Mavuso as MEC in the Transvaal was an eye-opener. I believe that the hon MEC is making a very valid contribution to the Transvaal Provincial Administration.

I would now like to draw the attention of hon members to the question of the opening of the Lenasia South hospital, and I call upon the hon MEC in charge of hospital services to react to this. This building has stood completed for the past two years, equipped, I believe, with the most modern equipment at a cost of approximately R7 million. To this day, however, this building stands like a monument reflecting a serious flaw in the Provincial Administration.

How does one plan priorities? Surely, when one approves a building programme, the need for additional expenses to take care of the day-to-day running costs has to be taken into account. With all due respect, I cannot accept the argument that the province does not have the R3 million required for this annual expense. This smacks of inefficiency, and the hon MEC must give us a better reason than the lack of funds. If a department plans a building and does not take into account the administration costs, that does not augur well for sound administration. I believe that the hospital at Ellisras has also been completed and is still closed.

If we look at the urgent need for hospital services, we will see not only that the continued failure to open the Lenasia South hospital is placing an unnecessary burden and pressure on existing facilities, but also that the issue is being used by radicals and played up out of all proportion.

In The Indicator of 29 March 1988, the Rev Gerrie Lubbe is quoted as having said the following:

The fact that the Lenasia South hospital is still closed has given the House of Delegates a bad name. In the eyes of the community outside, it has made us seem ineffective. I believe that the province has to take a stand here. The need exists as never before for this hospital to be opened, and this must be done immediately.

There is no doubt that this hospital is a wonderful structure, but its equipment is still wrapped in cellophane. The province has a budget of approximately R1,4 billion. Surely one can adjust the budget to accommodate the opening of this hospital. That would even relieve and assist the patients in Annadale, Eldorado Park and neighbouring Soweto, where overcrowding exists at Baragwanath.

Baragwanath has been the topic of discussion locally and internationally, as mentioned by the hon member for Toekomsrus. While the administration is to be commended on having the type of equipment that enabled the successful separation of the famous twins, Mpho and Mphonyana, the fact that patients sleep on the floor does not enhance the image of the administration or that of the central Government.

The action of the Provincial Administration in demanding apologies from the doctors who dared openly to make known their feelings about the deplorable situation has in its turn to be deplored. One does not threaten people with such academic qualifications and, considering the brain drain, the department’s action should have been one of diplomacy rather than giving the image of a bullyboy. I should like to know when last the MEC in charge of hospitals conducted a detailed inspection in loco not only at Baragwanath but also at other hospitals that fall under his jurisdiction.

What about the Western Transvaal?

I am referring to all hospitals that fall under his jurisdiction. I recommend regular inspections at all hospitals with members of Parliament being invited to accompany officials on what I would call a goodwill and fact-finding mission to these hospitals. I personally would welcome such a visit to the Boksburg-Benoni Hospital, the area I come from.

I wish also to touch on a few other points. Briefly, I want to call upon the administration to enlighten us insofar as the closing date for voter registration for the forthcoming municipal elections is concerned. There seems to be some uncertainty in this regard. In Benoni where I come from the date given was 20 May, but we are informed that in other areas it is 30 June. I would be grateful if this uncertainty could be clarified.

The hon the Minister of Local Government and Agriculture in the House of Delegates referred to recreational resorts. We as a community are not only land-starved but also recreation-starved. As far as the Badplaas and Warmbaths resorts are concerned we have over the years been promised that this matter was being attended to. I want to ask: But when? When are these resorts going to be opened to our people. We are not asking for resorts to be given to us on a group basis. However, at this stage, while the Group Areas Act remains on the Statute Book, we have no option but to ask this question in these particular circumstances. What was the purpose of the Group Areas Act? It was intended to provide for separate but equal facilities. “Separate” was taken care of, Sir, but “equal” was forgotten somewhere along the line.

Another point I wish to raise is the question of tenders. I should like to know what criteria are used in determining tenders, how they are advertised and who confirms such tenders. There still appear to be tremendous delays in the proclamation of townships, and this fact is wreaking havoc—if I may put it that way—in our community where the people, as I stated earlier, are land-starved. The sooner we can get rid of red tape, the better. I am told that there are some 30 departments through which a proclamation has to filter before any decision can be made and approval given. I believe we should streamline procedures of this nature.

One has to be in the position in which we find ourselves. We are able to listen to officials and to Ministers giving us their reasons but these reasons are totally unacceptable to the masses outside who require nothing more than a shelter, a roof over their heads. It is said that a contented community is a happy community. My people ask for nothing more than a roof over their heads from which to operate. Yes, there are avenues that are denied them and there are privileges that are denied them but in the final analysis I believe that the distribution of land in the country has to be looked at again.

It is all very well for us to come here and make glowing speeches that fall on responsive ears, but the proof lies in what happens when we leave here. That proof lies in the enactment of legislation and the taking of decisions and whether they are taken with a bias towards one group or not. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is a privilege for me to follow the hon member Mr Seedat. I want to join him in his plea for the immediate opening of the Lenasia South hospital. I should like the hon the Administrator and his officials to give us the assurance that the delay in commissioning this hospital is not an attempt to force the House of Delegates to have this hospital as an own affairs hospital. I would like that assurance.

In the second instance, I should like to support the hon member’s remarks in regard to the doctors at Baragwanath. We have recently seen an example of the high standard of medicine practised at Baragwanath Hospital, sometimes I believe not because of the Government, the province and their officials but in spite of them, and I think that the doctors and staff at Baragwanath Hospital should be supported from a manpower and financial point of view. The conditions of service there should be improved and I think it is of vital importance that more beds should be made available in those demoralising parts of the hospital where there is overcrowding with patients having to be nursed on the floor. I take great exception to one of the officials saying that the patients on the floor can be nursed there because they are used to sleeping like that at home. I think this is a stupid and insensitive remark, and I have not heard of any reprimand in this regard.

Disgraceful!

It is not just a question of sleeping on the floor; it is a question of nursing people and treating people on the floor. One just cannot maintain the same sort of standard under these circumstances. One of the biggest problems of the doctors at Baragwanath Hospital is to be able to find the patients.

In the third instance I wish to support the hon member in his plea—in fact, I would make it a demand—that there should be regular inspections by members of Parliament and the MECs and officials at these hospitals so that we can see and discuss the conditions at these hospitals. I am referring here to hospitals for Blacks and Whites. I am of the opinion that there has been a deterioration in morale and a loss of manpower. It would seem to me that the answer is not to provide additional and more adequate facilities but to emphasise the responsibility of the Government to privatise in this regard. I believe we must not have private practice financing apartheid in provincial hospitals.

I should like to extend the best wishes of the PFP to the hon the Administrator and his wife for a happy retirement. I also want to thank the MECs and the officials for their assistance and courtesy. When we fight, we are not fighting with them, because we have a great deal of admiration for them. We are fighting the NP which, after 40 years of racial discrimination, has enabled us to have this meeting here today. Many people have said that our meeting here today is an historic occasion. I agree. This is an occasion on which members of different racial groups can debate the affairs of the province together. However, I also believe that it is a farce, and I should like to develop my argument in this regard to prove that it is a farce. I think it would be better if we were to have this debate at the State Theatre rather than in this Reserve Bank Auditorium, because that is a place where we can act and make-believe and not have to face up to the realities of South Africa. While we can sit here together and debate the affairs of the province in this committee today, when we leave here we are classified in terms of a racial Act. When we leave here, we could meet with an accident. While we can debate hospitals generally here, if we were to be injured in such an accident we would have to go to our racially classified ward in our racially classified hospital. [Interjections.] That is where we would have to go.

As far as the question of ambulances is concerned, we can discuss the question of people of different races, but the majority of Transvalers are not even represented here. Most of the hospital beds in the Transvaal are for Blacks. If we are going to have a debate of this nature, then why do we not have it with Blacks as well? If it is such an advantage—and it is—to have people of various races discussing their own problems in the various hospitals, why cannot the Blacks be present and enjoy the same advantage? You see, Sir, this is an historic farce because we have had 40 years of racist NP Government, and the provincial services are now the agents of this Government in continuing with racial discrimination in our hospitals, libraries and elsewhere. This is the farce that we are experiencing.

We were told that this meeting here today was intended to bring provincial government back to the people. I have counted the members of the public present here today. This morning I do not think that more than five people were present, and this afternoon I count no more than 10. Even the public realise that this is a total farce, and so they do not wish to participate. Until we can leave here and be equal South Africans and use our facilities equally and debate and vote together in the best interests of all South Africans, I say that this type of meeting we are having here today is an historic farce and we in the PFP will fight this system.

Order! The hon member is not allowed to call the proceedings of Parliament a farce. He must withdraw that remark.

Very well, Sir, I withdraw it.

Mr Chairman, I want to thank the MEC for hospital services for his report. We would have liked to have had it earlier but we do appreciate his difficulties. However, we will study the report carefully.

The hospitals under the Transvaal Provincial Administration are run on a racial basis. I asked the following question in Parliament:

I should like hon members of this committee to listen to the reply I received. The reply was no. Not one is integrated. The reply goes on to state:

I should like to ask hon members of the House of Delegates whether it is their wish and need to have separate hospitals.

No!

Is it their wish and need to lie in separate wards in hospitals?

No!

Is it their wish to share wards with Whites, Coloured and Blacks?

Yes!

Mr Chairman, this statement in the reply I received to my question is totally untrue. I shall not be permitted to express myself more strongly in this regard.

I also asked the following question:

The answer I received was that this information was not readily available.

Mr Chairman, on a point of order: …

You are just wasting time.

Never mind, this is a waste of time anyhow!

Mr Chairman, the hon member has the opportunity to put the questions he is now asking to the hon the Minister himself in Parliament. I really believe that this is not something with which we should occupy ourselves this afternoon. I request that you rule that he return to the Vote under discussion.

Order! I did not hear what the hon member for Parktown was saying, because I was occupied with something else. I will now listen very attentively to him. The hon member for Parktown may proceed.

Mr Chairman, by means of replies which I obtained to certain questions, I have tried to indicate that the attitude of the Government is that no racial integration should take place in hospitals, and that includes provincial hospitals. I also put questions in connection with the number of patients in these hospitals. From the replies I received, it was very clear that as far as the hospitals in each province were concerned—I am referring specifically to the hospitals in the province of the Transvaal—the position is that most of the White hospitals have a bed occupation of between 60% and 70%, whereas the position in the non-White hospitals is that the bed occupation is approximately 100%. We have requested time and again that these underutilised hospitals be used to assist in treating patients in those hospitals which are totally overutilised. Why can this not be done, however? It is because as far as this issue is concerned racial discrimination forms the basis of the approach of the provincial hospital administration in the Transvaal. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I wish to raise a point of order. You specifically asked previous speakers to explain what particular Vote they were discussing when they started speaking in general terms. The hon member for Toekomsrus was one of the hon members you pulled up in this regard.

Secondly, the point has now been taken by the hon member for Boksburg that because the hon the Minister has dealt with something, it is not a point to be raised here. I do not want us to waste each other’s time because if points of order are continually to be raised during speeches, this sort of game can be played by everybody. For this reason I ask you to rule, firstly, that any matter falling within the purview of the province may be discussed, whether policy or otherwise; and secondly, that under the Vote of the salary of the hon the Administrator, all policy matters pertaining to provincial government of whatever nature may be discussed. That was always the tradition in the Provincial Council—that when one speaks to the Vote covering the salary of the Administrator it is like speaking in Parliament under the Vote of the hon the State President or, before that, the Prime Minister.

Therefore, Sir, I ask you to rule that all these policy matters can be discussed so that we do not find that we start interrupting one another and wasting each other’s time—especially as we have such a limited amount of time—in regard to points of order that are not valid.

Mr Chairman, I wish to raise a further point of order.

Order! Before I take a further point of order I wish to rule on the point of order raised by the hon member for Yeoville. The situation is simply that I have not prevented any hon member from speaking. What I have tried to do is obtain clarification in regard to what hon members were discussing. In the case of the hon member for Toekomsrus, he immediately brought his speech into line with the subject he was intending to discuss, namely hospitals.

I am not in a position to give a ruling on a theoretical approach in regard to what may or may not be the situation as far as future arguments are concerned. I shall consider each and every matter raised on its merits. However, I would request hon members not to raise points of order unnecessarily. On the other hand, if they are convinced that such a point of order is legitimate, then they must raise it. The hon member for Yeoville is quite correct when he says that because of the limited time available, the raising of points of order during a particular speech is a serious matter as far as that particular speaker is concerned.

*The hon member for Rust Ter Vaal may raise his point of order now.

Mr Chairman, the point of order I wish to raise is, what procedure should be adapted in this Committee when an hon member is threatened by another hon member?

Order! The hon member has already raised that matter with me, but he could not give me the name of the person involved. I want the hon member to establish what the situation is in that regard. Nevertheless, I want to state that a point of order or a point of privilege—when one hon member is threatened by another hon member, it is a point of privilege—should be raised at the earliest possible opportunity. The hon member did in fact raise it at the earliest possible opportunity, and I accept that.

However, I am told that this Committee is not authorised to deal with such a point of privilege. If the hon member can identify the person who threatened him, he may approach me again. However, at this stage I am of the opinion that the hon member acted correctly by raising the point of privilege at this stage and that he may raise this point of privilege at a later stage in his own House, after which a select committee may be appointed, if necessary.

Thank you, Mr Chairman.

Mr Chairman, I intend to make a few observations about the Baragwanath Hospital and the Siamese twins, the related financial problems, and in that regard I shall also return to certain remarks made by the hon member for Parktown.

By way of introduction, however, I merely want to touch on a few aspects which were raised by previous speakers. Unfortunately the CP members are no longer present. They will now simply have to decide whether they are running boycotters or boycotting runners! The hon the Leader of the CP had a great deal to say about the Great Trek and the reasons why it took place. One asks oneself whether there were no coloured persons who participated in that Trek. Were there not a number of coloured persons present on 16 December 1838? What about those people—do they no longer exist today?

It took you a long time to find that out.

No, I have always known it. The hon the Leader of the CP also had a great deal to say about the percentage of votes the CP received and how that compared with the number of Coloureds who voted, and so on. In this regard I merely want to ask one question: What percentage of votes did the NP poll in 1948 when they came to power?

A minority vote.

They had a minority vote. The same happened in 1953, and consequently I merely want to ask the hon the Leader of the CP not to apply principles when it suits him to do so, and not apply them when it does not suit him to do so. I want to say that the joint meeting which is taking place here today is much closer to the reality in South Africa, compared with what we had in the past. [Interjections.] Of course, Sir!, The Dutch have an expression: “Algaande leert men”, and we shall also learn from experience. My parliamentary dignity was not violated when the fellows searched me for security reasons this morning. In fact, the girls were so pretty that as far as I am concerned they could even have stripped me! [Interjections.] It really did not bother me. It is, however, obvious, and other hon members also referred to this, that we shall have to create a forum so that the Blacks will also have the opportunity to discuss things here.

The hon member for Rust Ter Vaal said inter alia that there must be more and better cultural contact. I fully agree with the hon member. Of course! I have devoted three speeches in the House of Assembly to this very question of better cultural contact.

[Inaudible]

The hon member for Yeoville must listen to me now. If the hon member is saying that there must be more and better cultural contact, he is surely admitting that different cultural groups exist! He is implying that. Surely the hon member cannot ask for better cultural contact between groups unless different cultural groups exist. That is also today’s reality, Sir, and those cultural groups imply group interests and group rights as well. What about the right to mother-tongue education? Surely it includes that as well. Therefore I want to conclude this part of my speech by saying that those people, such as the boycotting running CP members who deny the existence of general affairs, as well as those people who deny the existence of own affairs of groups—or if they do not deny them, in any case do not want to have provision made for them in the constitutional dispensation—are totally removed from the truth and reality. They are in fact denying reality, and that denial is a dangerous denial if one wishes to apply it in practice.

I said that I wanted to discuss Baragwanath Hospital. I think the mere fact that a White is rising to his feet here to discuss Baragwanath Hospital, surely proves that this is a general affair. I am very interested in Baragwanath Hospital. Baragwanath Hospital is situated in the municipal area of Johannesburg. It is a stone’s throw from my … Yes, perhaps I should not have said a stone’s throw away … It is just a short distance from my home.

Just a jump!

Just a small stone!

Yes, fine, just a jump. What did I want to say about Baragwanath Hospital? Looking at the clock, I think I must change my entire speech and quickly say what I wanted to say. In the first place, Baragwanath Hospital is a hospital in Soweto. Whether or not one wants them on one side and whether or not one wants to have that place in a separate area the fact remains that Soweto exists.

Order! I was late in watching the hon member’s time. The hon member may speak for 10 minutes.

Thank you, Mr Chairman. I suppose I may not ask the Chairman how much time I have left.

Let us say there are two million people living in Soweto. The Chairman of the West Rand Regional Services Council, Mr Gert Borman, provided some figures which I want to mention quickly. We are not quite sure how many people live in Soweto, but let us say there are approximately two million. I am quoting from The Star of 19 May 1988:

Mr Borman also said that it was estimated that 5,5 people were living in each squatter dwelling, and if one multiplies 230 000 by 5,5 one arrives at 1,265 million. We are therefore speaking of an additional 1,26 million people who are also living in Soweto, where there are already two or three million people living.

I want to tell the hon the Leader of the House of Representatives that there is not a shadow of doubt that a second hospital for Soweto is an absolute and urgent necessity.

When?

That hon member has asked when. The day before yesterday. There has been a need for it for a long time. The fact of the matter is that according to our Health Services Plan Baragwanath Hospital is a level VI academic hospital. There must also be a regional hospital. There must be community hospitals. There must be community health centres—like the old clinics. If one does not have them, the pressure on that academic hospital is very great, and that is what is happening. Some of the “specials”—as they are called in Johannesburg—are no longer available in Baragwanath Hospital. Cardiovascular and thoracic surgery are no longer available there. That brings me to what I wanted to say. We must, without a shadow of a doubt, give very urgent attention to that second hospital.

However, we know that money is the big problem. That is the problem, Sir. In Johannesburg there are 500 vacant beds in the Lenasia, Coronation, Leratong and Hillbrow hospitals. They are not being used simply because there is no money.

Before making a few observations about the twins, I first want to refer to the old classic cake which has to be divided. I listened to my hon friend from Hercules when he spoke about roads. Another hon member is going to talk about nature conservation. The cake has to be divided in respect of all those things. Today I want to maintain that regardless of one’s political party, colour group, sex and so on, we in South Africa are sitting on a health time-bomb unless we channel more money to health services. If one cannot increase the size of that cake one must simply channel more money to health services, even if a road has to be abandoned in the process. Large parts of Baragwanath Hospital—the nurses’ complex, and so on—were built with money that was borrowed abroad. The Americans are now closing that avenue. Boycotters and advocates of sanctions are closing those avenues. They are affecting the lives of people, and in this case very seriously affecting the lives of Blacks, by not allowing that money to come in.

As far as the Baragwanath twins are concerned, I think this is a case in which South Africa has proved—Prof Lipschitz and his 40 team members, including Dr Mike Ford and Dr Dirk Hagen—that academically speaking we are the “A team”. There is absolutely no doubt about that.

The Baragwanath twins have also shown that in an emergency, as was the case with the flood disasters, but also on joyous occasions, South Africa does stand together. In this way we stood together and prayed together for those twins— Mpho and Mphonyana. I see that the mother of the twins has said that their Afrikaans names are Lena and Hester, after her madam who treated her so well. Sir, I could quote a lot about this, but time will not allow me to do so. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, it is indeed a privilege to be speaking after the hon member for Langlaagte. It is a pity, however, that I had to get to know someone with such a wonderful personality outside the traditional South African confines. Circumstances in the country obviously prevented this. At the very beginning of his speech, the hon member for Langlaagte spoke in a very conciliatory way. As one of those people who has suffered under oppression, I nevertheless want to tell him that reconciliation is not acceptable to us unless there is restitution as well. He, as a member of the governing party, will really have to make a concerted effort in that direction.

In any event, I know that the hon member for Langlaagte spoke in good faith when he referred to Baragwanath Hospital, and in particular to the world-renowned Mathibela twins. I am very concerned about them. I am very fond of them because they were, after all, born in my home town, Klerksdorp. The hon member also referred to Baragwanath in particular. In this regard I want to quote from Saturday’s edition of The Star in regard to the question of beds in that hospital:

That is definitely cause for concern, Sir.

However, I want to come back to the Budget before the Committee. I want to start by associating myself with those hon colleagues who wished the hon the Administrator a fruitful period of rest. I know the hon the Administrator also has close ties with the Western Transvaal, and therefore I convey the best wishes of the Western Transvaal to him. Furthermore, I also want to congratulate the hon the Administrator on this Budget, which I see shows a real growth of 10,98%, of which amount the province has financed R529 million or 17,8% from its own resources.

I should now like to discuss Vote No 1—“General Administration”—and in the same breath refer to policy aspects in respect of other Votes. I shall discuss the other Votes during a subsequent speaking turn. At a later stage in my address I also want to refer to the spectacle created by the hon Leader of the Official Opposition of the House of Assembly.

As far as I am concerned, the Budget before the Committee continues to revolve around the question of racial discrimination. I want to make it clear that discrimination at all times concerns the relationship of privilege as opposed to injustice. Discrimination is also alive and well on the statutory and institutional level and that is why the Labour Party of South Africa is so insistent about the abolition of racially discriminatory legislation. Those people who discriminate and in so doing want to dominate, such as the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly wanted to do here, concentrate the most important instruments of power in their own hands and arrogate the ultimate decision-making to themselves.

Since the inception of the new constitutional dispensation numerous legislative measures which were of a racial and colour discriminatory nature have been removed from the Statute Book, but White domination is still present. The tragedy of apartheid lies in its very success. People are so far removed from one another …

Order! The hon member must move closer to the Vote under discussion.

Mr Chairman, I shall come to that now.

People are so far removed from one another and have so little contact with one another that they have not only become estranged from one another but have built up all kinds of prejudices towards one another. For example, I could refer to hospitals, recreational resorts and so on, where we are in fact kept physically separated from one another. We are prevented from making one another’s acquaintance socially.

Which nature reserves?

I shall come to that. I shall tell the hon MEC Mr Schoeman which nature reserves I am referring to. Socially, we are kept away from each other, yet we are expected to sit round a table and reach consensus on constitutional matters.

I should like to tell the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly that apartheid brings about a lack of fair and equal opportunities, which in our opinion is a source of great social injustice. The disparity in incomes, inequality in the provision of collective services and the inequality in available opportunities between the various population groups have inevitably had a great effect on the standard of living and the quality of life of the various population groups. The immediate consequence of this is the absolute and wide-spread poverty in our communities. In the Transvaal 25% of the population maintain a relatively high standard of living. That is true. However, at the same time almost 50% of the population live in poverty and a third of them live well below the breadline.

Surely the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly knows that this policy, which has brought about such widespread poverty, was a welfare-state policy for the sake of the Whites. It was mainly for the sake of the upliftment of impoverished Whites and this policy was pursued to give the Afrikaners their rightful place in South Africa. It was, however, also a policy in terms of which attempts were made to [inculcate] fear among the Afrikaners…

Order! If the hon member does not now confine himself to the Vote under discussion I shall order him to resume his seat.

Mr Chairman, I am going to abide by your ruling. However, I want to address you on this, since I am discussing Vote No 1— “General Administration”. It is the hon the Administrator’s Vote which deals with policy in the province. I have to refer to the general aspects of policy.

Order! The hon member must now confine himself to the Vote under discussion. I have given him a lot of time to speak in general terms. This is not a general discussion of the Vote of a Minister in one of the Houses of Parliament.

Mr Chairman, may I address you on that point?

Order! I request the hon member for Yeoville to allow me to make my own ruling. The hon member Mr Douw may proceed.

Mr Chairman, if you will allow me, I should like to confine myself specifically to what the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly said here earlier.

People who do not know one another, who are kept away from one another by structural legislation cannot trust one another either and people who cannot trust one another are filled with suspicion towards one another. What the hon the Leader of the Official Opposition of the House of Assembly told us here today was that there was an increasing emotion of fear on the part of the Whites—fear for the loss of so-called political self-determination. However, what is being lost sight of, is the fact that the Blacks, of whom I am one, have an increasing emotion of hatred— hatred for the Whites who are responsible for their inferior position, hatred for everyone who excludes them, and hatred for everyone who oppresses them, as well as hatred for a system which seeks to control their lives by imposing a pattern on them.

Today I want to tell all my White colleagues in South Africa that the liberation struggle is not only a struggle of the oppressed. The White man will never truly be free until every Black is also free in the country of his birth. [Interjections.] The spectacle which we experienced earlier here was clear proof that the Afrikaner himself has fallen victim to apartheid. For some people apartheid is indispensable for the maintenance of their identity. As far as I am concerned, however, the Afrikaner can maintain his identity without any legislation. It is purely a biological process. For us, the struggle continues.

Mr Chairman, it is a privilege to be addressing this committee of Parliament on this historic occasion, the first time Parliament has brought the business of Government to the provinces, and is thus in effect bringing Government to the people. [Interjections.] Predictably, and as we have seen and heard, the system has its detractors who do not appear to understand all the processes that go along with the broadening of democracy in a society such as ours. [Interjections.]

This debate is particularly important in that it is the first time that all health services are directly answerable to Parliament and the central Government, and also the first time that provincial hospital services will be responsible for psychiatric hospitals, formerly administered by the central Government. It is interesting to note that the mental health budget of more than R215 million makes up 15% of the total hospital services budget.

There can be no doubt that there are shortcomings in the admission and treatment of mentally disturbed persons; no-one has ever pretended otherwise, and I am certain that with goodwill, and in consultation with the medical profession, most of these problems can be solved.

The new dispensation provides a unique opportunity for the provinces, and in particular for the Transvaal, to provide even more comprehensive health services by enabling them to budget according to objectives, as the central Government does, making it easier to determine priorities and allowing a tight rein to be kept on expenditure for the good of all concerned.

As the hon the Minister recently and quite rightly remarked, we have to provide both the sophisticated services which the public demands and primary health care services. Of course we face daunting problems at times. Overcrowding and underutilisation are matters which have to be addressed urgently, for one is as bad as the other.

With the increased emphasis on privatisation, perhaps the time has come to allow hospital doctors to treat private patients in the hospital environment and to charge private patients’ fees for this. As we know, this measure has been applied with great success in many Western countries.

I want to congratulate the hon the Minister of National Health and Population Development for his global vision on health services, and in particular for his bold initiatives regarding the creation of a Southern African health service transcending borders and political systems. [Interjections.] In the fullness of time the success of this policy will impact on provincial health services beneficially.

In the second place, I would like to express my admiration for the hospital services of the Transvaal which, despite severe obstacles, continue to render with dedication one of the highest standards of health care in the world. [Interjections.]

The hon member for Langlaagte highlighted the brilliant world firsts achieved at Baragwanath Hospital in relation to the separation of the Mathibela Siamese twins. That such a complicated operation cost hundreds of thousands of rands, while the mother will have to pay only what we spend on busfare every week, is also significant and gives the lie to malicious people who seek to politicise our health services. [Interjections.]

Some even seized on the fact that the hon the Administrator of the Transvaal and our first lady, Mrs Elize Botha, paid visits to the twins. The hon the Administrator had every right to do so, and so did Mrs Botha as a mother and as a first lady. The moving reception she was accorded by patients and nurses after she had prayed over the twins is an emotional testimony to the goodwill that exists between the races. I agree with the hon member Mr Seedat that it is a pity that such visits do not take place more often in extraordinary cases, and I believe MPs and their wives should also devote some time to visiting and comforting the sick.

Having said that, I hope I will be permitted to speak on the consequences of the population explosion. Population densities in this province are such that increasing urbanisation, even where done in an orderly manner, will inevitably place almost unbearable pressure on health mechanisms that might have been perfectly adequate five years ago, but which can now no longer cope. The burning question is whether or not this province can afford to support such a large population, despite the fact that the country’s industrial dynamo, the PWV triangle, generates employment and prosperity.

Despite our determination to withstand the economic onslaught against us by creating additional employment and skills wherever possible—the Government’s programmes in this regard have had a heartening measure of success—there can be no doubt that we have to start paying even greater attention to the population explosion, which many have rightly termed a time-bomb. This responsibility should be shouldered by the province, local authorities and the communities we serve. I reiterate my belief that population control must become a burning issue at provincial and municipal level as well.

Adequate services require sufficient funds. The Transvaal, with its burgeoning population, requires at least 45,66% of the total budget for all branches of provincial hospital services. Unfortunately, the Transvaal receives only 37,46% in order to meet the hospital needs of almost half of South Africa’s population. Last year it actually received R1, 139 billion, that is R4 million less that the Cape, which has a population two thirds the size of that of the Transvaal. This year the Transvaal is asking for R1,209 billion, when in fact it should be receiving about R1,5 billion, excluding psychiatric hospitals transferred from the Department of National Health.

It is equally true to say that with the cost of health services we simply cannot afford to build one luxurious hospital after another, least of all when underutilisation occurs as a result of poor planning. It is also unfortunate that we cannot afford to have more academic hospitals and academic beds because they are much more expensive than vitally needed community clinics.

I believe we should sell off to the private sector our badly underutilised hospitals, recovering the cost and making a modest profit, and also privatise hospitals that are almost exclusively used by private patients. We are, after all, a capitalist country, and we simply cannot afford a socialist system of health care.

I must emphasise that the divestment of hospitals that I have suggested should take place only with the support of the communities served by those hospitals and the approval of the various hospital boards concerned.

We must also make a concentrated effort to keep doctors in South Africa, especially from the greatest school in South Africa, namely Wits. I was disturbed to see that last year for the first time the number of doctors registered with the Medical Council showed a decrease. Although doctors’ salaries have been improved, there are still other areas that have to be looked at to prevent and arrest the brain drain of professionals, inter alia the attitude of hospital administrators in their relationships with the medical profession, which must be cordial and open. Anything that disturbs this harmonious relationship must be fought tooth and nail.

There is also a growing feeling among doctors against what they perceive to be a system of regimentation. For instance, the present system of enforcing a 56 hour working week with scant recognition paid to the question of after-hours availability is causing much resentment. A doctor may be roused twice from his much needed rest in the early hours of the morning. It may take him 30 minutes to deal with both cases, yet he can put down only that period as the time worked, despite the fact that a period of some four hours might have been involved in such cases.

I also believe that channels between hospital administration as a whole and clinical staff, and not just those between superintendents and clinical staff, must be kept open at all times. All criticism should be honestly evaluated and acted upon. I do not believe that we should shrug off every criticism as politically inspired and therefore worthless. We must develop greater flexibility all round. If, for instance, more beds and toilets are urgently required, or if a crisis develops because of an increased demand on services, we must not allow this to develop to the proportions of a scandal before we take action, or worse still, take no action at all because we fear loss of face. Let us rather take a leaf out of the SADF’s handbook, and respond quickly, effectively and adequately to any crisis, even if it means putting up temporary structures and engaging staff on an ad hoc basis.

Allow me to conclude by saying that we cannot turn away the sick. To paraphrase the hon the Minister, we cannot tell a person that he must go away and die because there are no facilities to cater for his illness. [Interjections.] I am under no illusion that the provision of health services to the satisfaction of all is a monumental task, but at the same time I also feel that critics should offer constructive suggestions and cost-effective solutions. Above all, they should stop politicising health services. We have only to look at the campaign of vilification conducted overseas against us, which is aided by false or distorted statistics, to realise the problems we are up against. At the end of the day, however, goodwill, understanding and our basic humanitarian principles will win the day.

Mr Chairman, this is indeed an historic occasion, in that we are meeting in the province of the Transvaal as a free component of Parliament. The principle of accountability is a good one, and I am certain the Administration, ie the hon the Administrator and the hon members of the Executive Committee, will be able to account for their actions.

I understand that regional services councils are functioning in the Transvaal, and that some 12 regions have been established. To quote the hon the Administrator, they are producing sound results and have exciting prospects. I would like the hon MEC in charge of regional services councils to give us some indication of how the regional services councils are functioning at the present moment, and to tell us whether councillors of all population groups are working within the definition of consensus politics.

Furthermore, I would like to know what the policy of the Administration is with regard to those traders who have paid their annual licence fees and are now required also to pay levies in the course of the same year. Will they be reimbursed, or has the province any clear directive in this regard?

In respect of traffic enforcement I should like to ask the following questions. How many White, Coloured and Black traffic officers are employed by the Administration? If there are vacancies, why have they not been filled? What are the qualifications required of such traffic officers? What steps and policy changes are envisaged against the increasing incidence of drunken and negligent driving offences? I am not trying to pass the buck, but I believe it is the responsibility of both the central Government and the provincial government to curb the carnage on our roads. I would also like to know whether any rehabilitation programmes are planned for drunken drivers and negligent drivers. I see that the revenue from motor vehicle licences is R11,42 million. May I ask how this is utilised with specific reference to the road safety programme?

I am aware that we are all constrained by budget restrictions. Much has been said about the Lenasia hospital, which was built and has been lying idle for some two years. We are under tremendous pressure from and constantly criticised by the extra-parliamentary groups, who say we are ineffective and not even able to operate a facility which has already been provided. I believe the Administration requires about R3 million to put the hospital into “operation”. If it is true that this is the amount required, I am astonished that the province could not find that R3 million in those two years. I ask the hon MEC in charge of hospitals to expedite this matter and open that hospital as soon as possible.

Furthermore, I cannot forgive the hon MEC in charge of hospitals for increasing the out-patient tariffs for the lower income group and pensioners. I believe that there should be a concession for pensioners, and I call on the Administration to respond to this suggestion.

Besides the Roodeplaat pleasure resort, there appears to be no alternative for race groups other than Whites. I may mention that Badplaas and Warmbaths are closed to members of those race groups. I would like to know whether the Administration is going to provide facilities in both these places. I would also like to know what the province’s policy is towards sharing facilities provided in the resorts. To provide separate facilities is not economically viable, and I want to appeal to the Administration in a spirit of accommodation to make the resorts available to all population groups. This would be a meaningful step, in that it would bring South Africans of all colours together in a recreational environment.

Looking at page 16 of the Estimates, I observe that there is an increase of nearly 100% under Vote No 1, and I might as well ask some questions about it. What is the reason for this increase? Which are the institutions that benefit from the grants-in-aid and from these financial assistance programmes? One of the reasons given in the explanatory memorandum is the following:

I wonder whether this performing arts programme is suited to all South Africans. Is it such that it is acceptable to and provides for all South Africans, or is it for a particular group? Furthermore, in terms of privatisation and deregulation, to what extent is the work done by the province given to contractors?

Allow me to add that we are now in the process of preparing for the local government elections in October. There is much bewilderment in regard to a few aspects of the registration of voters as far as the management committees and local government affairs are concerned. May I ask the Administration whether a final date has been determined in respect of the registration of voters for the local government elections of all population groups? Has a date been set for the inspection of the final voters’ roll? Is it the same for all population groups?

Finally, on behalf of my party, Solidarity, I wish to extend our good wishes to the hon the Administrator in view of his forthcoming retirement. May God keep him well, and may he continue to see some light in the Administration guiding the Transvaal.

Mr Chairman, I am discussing hospital services and my speech will deal with the use of hospital facilities by the aged and senile, as well as making sheltered employment facilities available for the disabled.

Some of the figures in respect of the percentage of aged—in this case White aged especially—are the following: In 1985 Whites who were 65 years of age and older already constituted 8,4% of the total White population, and it has been calculated that by the year 2020 the figure will be as high as 15,1%. At the same time, it is also known that in some countries in Western Europe more than 19% of the total population is above 65 years of age. Within a few decades the Indian and Coloured communities in South Africa will follow the same path, but so much for the figures. There is no longer any doubt that the need for geriatric care will continue to increase. At the same time we have a funding problem which will most probably become more critical.

The report of the relevant committee of the President’s Council contains certain recommendations, and they are inter alia that service centres and day-care centres be investigated in order to retain the aged in the community for a longer time instead of placing them in institutions; and that community services such as service centres, home assistance centres and day-care centres be encouraged at the initial phase where private welfare organisations are prepared to accept responsibility for them.

It has also been recommended that the particular contributions which the aged themselves can make must be acknowledged. We must keep them active in the community for as long as possible, also for the sake of their own self-image.

Furthermore, the President’s Council Committee came to the conclusion that there was an urgent need for accommodation and care for the infirm aged. This must, however, be seen against the background that there are too many healthy aged, especially Whites, living in subsidised housing in South Africa.

It is therefore necessary for facilities to be created for the support of aged who are physically and mentally healthy after their discharge from the institution, having required institutional care at some stage, until the person is again completely independent and can return to society.

The problem of underutilisation of hospital beds occurs especially in hospitals for Whites. Dr G de V Morrison indicated in May 1986 that the possibility ought to be examined of private welfare organisations taking care of the infirm aged in these underutilised areas. There is no doubt that there will be problems in respect of the use and financing of the kitchen and other facilities, but it should be possible to resolve them.

At present in the Kempton Park Hospital there are 83 beds available, one ward with 30 beds is completely vacant, and with reorganisation possibly more wards could become available. The Council for the Aged of Kempton Park is at present engaged in reconsidering improvements to their services for the aged as well as improved planning. Cognisance has been taken of the fact that financial support is available for the development of a social day-care centre at the present service centre. The aged who also have to be cared for by day while their children work, will be accommodated. It will be possible from time to time to assist individual cases requiring care on a temporary basis 24 hours a day.

The major problem, however, remains the senile aged person and the aged person who needs help in a medical rehabilitation day-care centre. The latter must be located inside a hospital. The services will be exclusively of a rehabilitatory nature and will not last for longer than seven to 12 weeks. The persons frequenting the day-care centres come mainly from the hospital wards. The personnel will consist of professional people, such as a sister, a social worker, an occupational therapist and a physiotherapist as well as voluntary workers including elderly persons who are physically strong and who will be able to help with feeding, bathing, entertainment and so on. The hospital and welfare organisation could run these service centres on a partnership basis.

In Kempton Park senile aged persons are accommodated and cared for in two different residential houses, converted for the purpose. It means that everything has to be duplicated. The use of one large hospital ward with 30 beds can bring about major cost savings for the welfare organisation. At the moment it is difficult to convene the groups involved. Co-ordination must take place somewhere along the line.

I want to mention another example. In Kempton Park there is a school which, as a result of development in the area, has been standing empty for 10 years. At the same time there is a great need for a facility to create a sheltered place of work for mentally handicapped persons. Kempton Park prides itself on having one of the most modern training centres at which instruction is being provided at great expense and with the utmost affection to trainable, yet seriously mentally retarded persons. When that child is forced to leave the school between the age of 18 and 21, all those skills are quickly unlearnt, since they cannot compete on the open labour market.

At the Panorama Special School children are trained in various vocational subjects. These children can only qualify to be employed as artisans if they have an N1 qualification. These young people can cope with the practical aspect when they are tested at the Olifantsfontein Trade Test Centre, yet they are not capable of passing the theoretical tests. They are also being trained at great expense merely to face the future as unemployed persons. A sheltered place of employment could also meet their needs, and they could help to make the centre viable.

More than two years ago the Council for the Disabled begun to plan such a centre. The same problem arises here again. Various departments are involved, and we are simply not getting any further. Major financial implications render it impossible to make a start without any help.

The use of the aforementioned school grounds, located on a smallholding, could be the answer. Mr Gunning, our ministerial representative, is at present assisting us with the co-ordination and I extend my thanks to him for that.

Today I appeal for a structure to be created to establish better co-ordination between the private and especially the welfare sector on the one hand and the Government departments on the other. A lot of money and time is being wasted with people running to and fro from one department and building to another and still not getting anything done ultimately.

A heavy burden could be transferred from the State to the private sector. Surely that is the privatisation for which we are all yearning.

Mr Chairman, I want to discuss Vote No 1—“General Administration”, and in particular the second item in the hon the Administrator’s speech, which was referred to as “die administrasie van die Wet op Groepsge-biede”. I want to begin by saying that my party and I are totally opposed to the Group Areas Act. We do not accept this Act, and its administration should not rest with the hon the Administrator.

There are many reasons why the Group Areas Act cannot be accepted. I have been a victim of that Act twice myself. I was uprooted from my residential area and place of birth and pushed 30 km out of Johannesburg, and 20 years later the State decided that that particular area could no longer be a Coloured group area. It had to become a Black group area, and I was affected by it again.

I repeat that the Act is unacceptable, and I think that the hon the Administrator should not have to administer it. That responsibility should rest with the first ties of government, and we can fight it out there. If it remains with the hon the Administrator, we are going to continue to have the many problems which we are experiencing in the Transvaal. Whenever anything goes wrong, we will have to blame the hon the Administrator and chaps representing our various race groups on his administration, while the Group Areas Act is not of their doing. The Group Areas Act existed long before the advent of this new tricameral system, and we therefore cannot just pass the buck from one group to another. That is unacceptable.

What has the Group Areas Act done to our people? It has broken homes, destroyed families and taken people away from their churches. People whose residential areas represent the investment of a lifetime have seen that investment taken away from them.

Before I continue, I want to tell the NP that I am not only speaking in terms of the Coloureds, the Blacks or the Indians. I am speaking in general, because it has affected everybody. It it has affected the Whites too, but to a lesser extent than the other race groups. When I speak about group areas, therefore, I am using general terms and not referring to any one race group.

Let me continue. The Group Areas Act has broken up many homes, and has in some cases brought on heart attacks and been a cause of death. One could therefore also say that this Act is an Act of murder. It is intolerable and unacceptable. We will oppose the Group Areas Act at all costs and do our best to see that it does not continue to operate.

Let us look at the permit system. What happens? A person applies for a permit. He can afford to live in a particular area and is of high standing, and yet he is turned down because of the colour of his skin. Furthermore, it is only in respect of a White group area that such an application is turned down. He is not turned away from any other area. I am not saying that we do not want other race groups in our areas. There are many in our areas, because we accept them and welcome them with open arms, but why does the White community not do the same? Of all the permits applied for, I have not seen one that was approved for residential rights in a White area; not one.

The members of our non-White group have been making sacrifices for too long. [Interjections.] Now it is time that the other race group, the White race group, started making sacrifices too, not for the sake of an individual or of a party, but for the sake of the country.

Let me go on about these permits. Permits separate families too. I have a letter from the province which states that a White man who marries a Coloured woman becomes a Coloured automatically. I asked the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning a question about this in Parliament and he replied that such a man remained White. I want to know where the province gets its information that a person marrying a Coloured is automatically classified Coloured?

There are many problems surrounding the Group Areas Act that are going to hamper the work of the provincial administration. My recommendation remains that the administration of the Group Areas Act should revert to the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning. It is he who should find solutions to the problems, because it is unfair to pass that responsibility on to the province. If my information is correct, Dr Hoods would be the MEC responsible for administering this vicious Act. He will be saddled with it, and he opposes it because he belongs to the party to which I belong. I therefore do not see how the province can simply pass it on and say Dr Hoods should administer it. I am sure that if Dr Hoods had his way, he would grant permits to everyone who applied, but because of the laws of the province, he cannot do so.

Not the laws of the province, the laws of Parliament.

Yes, and that is why I said that it should not rest on the shoulders of the hon the Administrator, but should go right back to Parliament and the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning. It is his baby, so let him sort out the problems.

Let us look again at the effect of the Group Areas Act. It has taken people out of the centre of Johannesburg and the so-called Coloured suburbs surrounding Johannesburg and dumped them in a place called Annadale. The people there and in the area of Lenasia South are affected by the Group Areas Act. They have to pay twice as much to get to town. It costs them much more to live in that area, because they have to do all their shopping in town. One has to go back there during the weekend, and it costs a fortune to go to town and back.

Do hon members know what the roads department and the Department of Transport have done now? They have decided to put up a tollgate. [Interjections.) Having pushed them out by means of the vicious Group Areas Act, they have now decided to punish them by introducing a toll-road so that people going in and out of Annadale have to pay. That is not acceptable either to the people of Annadale or those of Lenasia South. [Interjections.] The province might turn round and say that this is the problem of the Department of Transport. I agree, but the department would not do something like that without consulting the province. The province must have given them the go ahead.

My view is that there is no way to stop that toll-gate now, because too much money has been spent on it. However, the province together with the Department of Transport will have to find a way of allowing the people of Annadale not to pay at that toll-gate. The hon the Minister of Transport Affairs mentioned in passing that he was going to broaden the old Vereniging road. That is part of the solution, but only part. We still have to find a way of exempting the residents of that area from paying, because it is no fault of theirs that they have been pushed so far out of town. It is a result of this vicious, outrageous Group Areas Act, which will never be accepted by me or my party.

Mr Chairman, at this stage I should like to start replying to some of the speeches that have been delivered here, but in order to put it beyond all doubt, in terms of the ruling you gave earlier this morning, that I am entitled to take part in this debate, I should also like to indicate that, apart from my replies, I shall at the same time deal with Vote 1.A.3—General Administration: Salaries, Wages and Allowances—Remuneration and allowances to the Administrator and Members of the Executive Committee—and Vote 7.A.1—Community Services: Salaries, Wages and Allowances—Basic salaries and wages, including fixed allowances and service bonuses.

My colleagues and I regard it as a special honour and a great privilege to take part in these proceedings today. The fact of the matter is that the hon the Administrator and the Executive Committee form an important executive arm of the Government, and since the Constitution now stipulates that Parliament is our legislator, it is essential, at least as far as the Budget is concerned, that this contact and accounting for our actions should take place between the Executive Committee and Parliament.

The point I wish to make very clear—it was raised here earlier today—is that the Executive Committee is not a policy-making body. We carry out policy in terms of the Acts of Parliament. We do not carry out the policy of any particular political party either.

†I say this, Sir, because you are also aware of the fact that certain hon members change political affiliations and parties so fast that an ordinary MEC cannot keep track. [Interjections.]

*We carry out the country’s policy as laid down in Parliamentary legislation, and if the policy as such is criticised, we say, as was in fact said today, that Parliament must change the legislation.

Different people from different population groups and political parties are drawn together in this Executive Committee.

†I want to say, Sir, that not one of these members of the Executive Committee asked to be appointed to the Executive Committee. They were approached to serve on this body, and in certain instances they have already sacrificed a lot. However, in the course of almost two years they have proved something, namely that in spite of separate identities, differing views and the fact that they represent different people, they have given expression to a formula and to a concept. As far as I can see, the only concept that can survive in South Africa is that of working together in spite of differences. We can meet one another halfway and we can fulfil the expectations of most, if not all, of the reasonable people with reasonable expectations in and for our country. [Interjections.]

*In South Africa, as probably in no other country in the world, there are forces, such as those that are active in the universe, that are moving and working, centrifugal forces, forces that create tension, conflict, friction and hostility.

CPs!

That is perhaps a good example.

There are other forces as well—centripetal forces, which are seeking to bring about reconciliation. I think this Executive Committee is one of the best examples of such a force that this country has ever produced.

I want to mention, to the credit of my hon colleagues in the Executive Committee and the hon the Administrator, that when we deal with differences—and there have been differences during the past two years—we do not shout at one another. We join hands and try to see how and if we can accommodate one another. [Interjections.]

The system, no matter how imperfect, proves that in a world—we saw a striking illustration of this on television last night—that is organising and working towards breaking South Africa economically and otherwise, we are able to form alliances that strengthen us; not alliances with alien forces and powers, but alliances among our own people.

†This is not something unique to the Transvaal; it has also been proved in the other provinces.

*Let there be no doubt about the fact that as far as I am concerned—my hon colleagues know this—I take a realistic view of the situation in South Africa, and I say we cannot close our eyes to historic facts and the realities of our country.

I want to link up with what the hon member for Langlaagte said. It is not possible to establish, extend and operate a dispensation in this country without giving the necessary emphasis and attention to group interests and own structures for dealing with them. However, we do have common interests which call for common structures.

†The hon the Minister of Local Government and Agriculture (Delegates) and the hon member for Bayview raised two matters. In the first instance, regarding the questions relating to Dinjala and the reserves under the control of the Directorate of Nature Conservation, it ought to be appreciated that the facilities that exist at Dinjala are very limited.

Dinjala can only accommodate approximately 40 persons. These facilities are in the first instance being used for the in-service training of the staff of the Directorate of Nature Conservation and also by the Provincial Administration, but they are also available to other State departments and any other organisation provided that the necessary bookings are made and the necessary fees are paid. Dinjala is open not as a public resort but for the presentation of courses etc. It is open to all people; there is no discrimination as far as race is concerned.

As far as the nature reserves under the control of the Directorate of Nature Conservation are concerned, I also wish to state, in reply to what the hon member for Bayview said, that they are open to all races for nature-oriented outdoor recreational purposes.

*I think hon members are perhaps making a mistake in failing to distinguish between the public resorts and the reserves under the control of the Nature Conservation department, which are two entirely different matters.

†The other matter which was raised was the question of the regional services councils. Pertinent questions were put to me by two hon members. The hon the Minister requested a report. It is a very simple matter to provide hon members with statistics. It was decided to demarcate 12 regional services councils in the Transvaal. They have all been established and are all operational. I can also tell hon members that in a full financial year the expected total income of these regional services councils will amount to approximately R300 million. Despite what has been said in the past, I can also give the assurance that especially as far as the larger councils with higher incomes are concerned, the total administrative costs will be in the vicinity of 5% to 10%. In the rural areas where the income will be lower, these administrative costs could go as high as 20%. However, taking all the relevant factors into account, this is still an acceptable figure.

A question was also asked in regard to licence fees. It is quite correct that in terms of the Regional Services Councils Act, licence fees fall away from the date that the levies are imposed. However, as far as the period is concerned—in most cases, only a few months—we are seeking legal advice in regard to the position of the overlap. In the final instance this will be a matter between the business people themselves and the specific local authority.

These then are the statistics, but what is important is that at this point in time we have approximately 400 leaders of all population groups from various local authorities in the field of local government who have been brought together, and they are already rendering inestimably valuable service to their communities through the concept of these established regional services councils.

In the original investigations several objectives with regard to regional services councils were defined. These were, firstly, to act as a horizontal extension of local government and to execute local government functions on a regional basis; secondly, to establish an extensive structure in order to devolve other functions to the local government area not previously performed at that level; thirdly, to establish additional sources of revenue for local government functions; fourthly, to secure economies of scale through utilising effectively, more efficiently and more economically existing expertise and infrastructure on a regional basis; fifthly, to give stature to the Government’s reform policy on decision-making by means of processes aimed at local government structures which will grant local authorities an independent say in their own affairs within the area of jurisdiction of that local authority, and then also general local government structures where the various local authorities can co-operate with each other on matters of general interest and mutual benefit on a regional basis. As hon members all know, there is also a further direct goal prescribed in the Regional Services Councils Act namely the principle that when establishing its priorities for the appropriation of its funds an RSC should give preference to the establishment, the improvement and the maintenance of infrastructural services and facilities in areas where the greatest need exists.

These aims as aforementioned can be combined and defined by stating that the main objective and task of an RSC is to initiate actions whereby the standard of living of all the inhabitants in the area can be improved through sharing the new sources of revenue provided for this purpose.

Moreover, the activities of these councils in any of their areas can result in material developmental results particularly in three spheres, namely the economic or physical field by building roads, providing electricity and so forth; in the social field because better living conditions are a precondition for higher standards of living; and thirdly, also in the constitutional sphere. In this regard I am not referring to the overhead development on central or provincial level but specifically to the level of local government.

Through the RSC concept the best leadership, expertise and existing infrastructure at ground level, where available, can now be utilised in an entire region. Every regional services council comprises representatives of all the local authorities in its area. Therefore, by creating an RSC we have a body which on the one hand is an extension of local government and, on the other hand, can be described as a regional body which, without the identity or autonomy of town or city councils being affected, offers the only forum in addition to the executive committees of the provinces where leaders of all communities deliberate and decide together. Most important of all, however, is that every local community of every population group now positively feels and knows that its needs, for example, in regard to water supply, sewerage, streets and so forth are being attended to. These needs are identified and quantified and put on priority lists. Where possible, they are also budgeted for.

Since the decision-making process of RSC’s is largely reliant and dependant upon the concept of consensus, its successful implementation in the future will to a large extent be determined by the attitudes of the participating bodies and individuals. As it is not in the first place political ideology that is at stake but the rendering of service to and the welfare of people—goals on which it is easier to reach consensus—the RSC is an ideal place and opportunity to build mutual understanding among groups. As the public exposure of the participants is less than on a national level there is in my view a greater chance of success at this stage.

Criticism has been levelled at the composition of the RSC’s. In the RSC concept we have a form of participating democracy which in my view, in one form or another, under prevailing circumstances is the only possible model suitable for South Africa, once again taking into account the realities of our country.

We are also aware of the fact that many questions in respect of constitutional development in our country still need to be answered. I feel, however, that the general public is not sufficiently aware of the obvious and the apparent, namely, participation in government and administration at the places where we live in our immediate environment. This is a tremendous field and is very important. It embraces to a large extent the daily weal and woe of our people. It will avail us nothing if we keep our eyes fixed on the mountains while we stumble over obstacles in our path. Having been involved in the establishment of the RSC’s in the Transvaal I can confidently state that the concept is a success. Numerous communities have already benefited from their activities and many projects aimed at the upliftment of communities are being planned and implemented. It is my considered opinion that the RSC’s in our various regions should be supported.

The establishment of regional services councils is a milestone in the history of South Africa. This, to my mind, is reform in the real sense of the word.

*Different political parties hold different political views in this regard, but I want to appeal seriously to hon members for us to put aside our ideological differences and support this concept, because the good that this has already done in the interests of our people at grassroots level, is something that I cannot describe to hon members in the course of twenty minutes.

With this I want to conclude my speech, particularly in the light of what happened here this morning. I sincerely regret the fact that our hon friends are not present here at the moment.

They ran away!

Yes, they ran away.

My question to those hon members who are at the moment conspicuous by their absence, is whether we do agree, irrespective of the ultimate political and constitutional models we might aspire to and irrespective of our vision of the future as regards the ultimate constitution of South Africa, as I have been told all political parties agree, that local government, and therefore local communities as well, are the building blocks for a sound constellation in South Africa. If we do agree on this point, how are we going to succeed in building that model, no matter what it looks like, without properly organised local authorities?

What is it possible to build with? A disorderly, unorganised, incited, radical mass without identified leaders and without identified structures that command respect, or the opposite in the form of local communities, calmly going about their lives and jobs, communities whose needs have been identified and are contained in own and common structures, aimed at improving the quality of life and capable of dealing with social problems such as unbridled population growth, in order to establish a better quality of life and so forth? Which of these two options is more acceptable, irrespective of what our ultimate model may look like?

There is something I cannot understand, and I want to illustrate this by telling hon members about our experience at local government level. Those local authorities that consist mainly of supporters of those hon friends who walked out of this meeting this morning, cannot ignore the realities and, therefore, until now they have been co-operating fully in order to allow this concept to succeed. It is a pity that they seem to be stirred up from time to time by their friends in Parliament.

I have tried to reply to a few of the questions that have been put thus far in respect of nature conservation and the RSC’s. I trust that the information I supplied contained the replies to those questions. If I am afforded the opportunity later during this debate I should like to reply briefly to questions concerning the Roads Department and issues such as privatization, giving work out on tender and the toll road at Lenasia, as well as the comments made by the hon member for Hercules this morning.

Mr Chairman, it is a great pleasure for me to follow my former political boss in the Provincial Council, and to have listened to all the very sensible things that he had to say.

I will be dealing with a different topic, and that relates to Vote No 4—“Hospital Services”. I am afraid I am going to be rather parochial, because I would like to raise a matter which is of great concern to my constituents, and that is the South Rand hospital, which is in my constituency, and the uncertainty about its future.

The hospital was built some 30 years ago at a cost of R1,34 million, and today it is valued at over R40 million. It is a small but very nice community hospital, which was built after a long campaign by residents of the southern suburbs of Johannesburg to have their own hospital. Many of my constituents, most of them elderly, can remember the campaign and signed petitions to have the hospital established to serve the southern suburbs. This hospital is very important to residents of that area.

I became a member of the hospital board in 1984. At that time, the hospital was about two-thirds utilised, but usage has now dwindled to about 50% to 57%. There have been many reasons for this. Among those which have come up since I became a member of the board, was the shortage of nursing staff resulting from the requirement that nurses should work extra hours for which they were not paid. As a result of this, many left.

Mercifully, this has now been overcome, and the hospital is well served by nursing staff of a high standard. The reason for this is the excellent accommodation at the hospital in the form of flats and a very good nurses’ home, as well as the housing subsidies provided by the province. Most of the nursing staff are drawn from the area, and many of them are married women who work on a part-time basis. In fact, these women would be lost to the nursing profession if they were not able to work at their own local hospital.

There are other problems—the provincial authorities are no doubt aware of them—in relation to the means test and the accommodation of private patients, but the latest specific problem is that it is becoming increasingly difficult at our hospital to fill the vacant posts for doctors. There are at present nine such posts at the hospital, six of which have been vacant for months.

At full capacity, the hospital has a total of 12 wards accommodating some 412 beds. At present only seven wards are in operation, with 190 beds in them. Of these beds, only 110 are filled. This is clearly a dreadful waste of expensive and valuable infrastructure and resources. The hospital board is very aware of this, and for the past two years has been asking the authorities to consider what could be done. At times we feel quite “moedeloos”.

The board has suggested that while it is very important to retain the clinic and out-patient facilities provided by the hospital to the southern suburbs, the vacant wards and extra facilities could well be used as a frail care centre, servicing the numerous old-age homes in the southern suburbs and near the city centre. Examples of these old-age homes in the south are Queens-haven, which accommodates some 300 senior citizens, the Apostolic Church’s Eden Home and another facility near the hospital, Reuven old-age home, with some 350 old people in it. None of these old-age homes is far away, and the managers of the institutions keep making anxious enquiries about the future of the hospital on which they depend to such an extent.

This uncertainty is very debilitating for the provision of health services in the southern suburbs. A rumour that is doing the rounds is that the hospital will be taken over entirely as a frail care centre. The board has stated that it is in favour of the spare capacity of the hospital being utilised in this fashion, but it has made an appeal that the hospital should continue to perform a service to the community, especially the older members of the southern suburbs community who depend on the services provided by the hospital.

As I have said, there is a large community of old people served by the hospital, estimated by the superintendent at some 5 000 patients at any one time attending for regular treatment. Approximately 100 patients are treated every weekday, and this amounts to a couple of thousand a month. All these people are from the southern suburbs, and if this facility is taken away, it would be most detrimental to my older constituents.

A number of organisations, including church and commercial organisations, have stated that they are prepared to take over the running of the vacant wards as a frail care centre. All they require are the wards, the beds and the use of the kitchen on an agreed basis. A number of memoranda in connection with the future of the hospital have been submitted by the board and myself suggesting that the hospital be used on the basis that I have just outlined.

For the past year we have been advised in answer to queries that the hospital has been classified as an own affairs hospital, it has been allocated to the Department of Health Services and Welfare, and that proposals by various parties for the use of the hospital are at present being investigated.

I believe that Dr Wim de Villiers is doing this investigation on behalf of the province. However, we as the board do not know who the other various parties mentioned are. We as the board have in fact put up several memoranda, as I have said, but we are unaware what other bodies or institutions have any right to do so, and who these various parties are.

I submit that the delays and uncertainty in taking a decision on the South Rand hospital are very detrimental to the future of the hospital and the credibility of hospital services in the south in general. As I have said, the people of my constituency have a great interest in this hospital, and they regard it as their hospital. It is most important, I submit, that the right decision is taken. As I have said, there are all sorts of rumours doing the rounds. Agents for private concerns have arrived at the hospital, saying that their clients were interested in buying the hospital. No-one seems to know why they have arrived. It would also appear that some of them at least are under the impression that they are going to be able to buy up State assets on the cheap. Therefore it is most important that the right decision is reached as soon as possible.

It is for that reason that I am making an appeal to the authorities concerned seriously to consider retaining the clinic facilities and some wards at the hospital for the people living in the south, and also to consider using the vacant wards as soon as possible for the care of the frail aged in the south.

Mr Chairman, I want to begin by paying tribute to the hon the Administrator as the Administrator of the Transvaal, as a friend and as a person. I want to say to him that we shall miss him. He was a true friend.

At the same time I cannot refrain from paying tribute to a former MEC, Mr Griffiths; a person who has also served us well. I also want to welcome the new MEC, Mr Olaus van Zyl, to his new position.

We have just listened to the hon MEC Mr Schoeman telling us about the RSC’s etc. It was very interesting to hear that the RSC’s in the Transvaal were successful. For my own part I can say that the RSC serving my area is successful too. I have actually seen how the money is spent there and what kind of service is provided there.

I am perhaps going to be critical of the hospital services this afternoon, and I hope my good friend the MEC responsible for hospital services will not regard this as a personal attack on him.

†As you are aware, over many years people other than Whites have suffered the indignity of being turned away from hospitals only because of the colour of their skin. During the past few years, especially during discussions of the Budget Votes on Health Services and Welfare and National Health and Population Development, several hon members in the House of Delegates, as well as in the other Houses, have repeatedly highlighted the discriminatory practices in hospitals as a result of the application of the policy of apartheid. Although South Africa has entered a new era of social change following the promulgation of the Republic of South Africa Constitution Act, 110 of 1983, the media have from time to time reported on incidents where certain hospitals continue to be run along lines of racial segregation, and non-Whites are being refused admission because of the hospital being reserved for Whites only. In some instances the patients died hours after being refused hospitalisation. This state of affairs is not one of isolated incidents, but it is fairly general in hospital services.

Here I wish to mention two incidents which occurred over the last few months, and one of the hospitals I am going to name is the Community Hospital at Groblersdal.

We have a sizeable Indian community in and around Groblersdal and Marble Hall. It was tragic that just before Christmas a five-year-old child was rushed to the hospital after drinking paraffin. He was turned away from the hospital by the matron and was even refused emergency treatment. She said that they did not provide a service for people other than Whites. [Interjections.] This child died on the way to the hospital at Middleburg where there were facilities available.

As recently as a month or two ago a similar incident occurred. A patient was turned away from this particular hospital at Groblersdal. This elderly person died in the Warmbaths hospital before he could be transferred to the hospital at Nylstroom. We feel that this type of thing should not occur in these times.

I wish to highlight another very serious problem we are faced with, and that is the blatant discrimination in the ambulance services. I wish to mention instances today where the province has failed to implement its stated policy of a non-discriminatory ambulance service.

In Pretoria the ambulance service is run by the City Council, and I wish to ask the following questions: Why is it that Black ambulance drivers are not issued with the same uniform as their White counterparts? Why is it that new ambulances bought by the province and supplied to the Pretoria Ambulance Service are only driven by White ambulancemen? Why, if the equipment supplied to ambulances is the same for all races, is it that grey blankets are used for noir-White patients and red blankets for White patients? [Interjections.] Why is it that not a single ambulance driven by a Black driver in Pretoria is equipped with an emergency siren? [Interjections.] Why is it that only old-model vehicles are used as non-White ambulances, and these same ambulances are frequently sent to places like Laudium, where I live, and Eersterus, where the Coloured community live, especially in nonemergency cases, whereas the vehicles sent out to White areas are of a much higher standard? Why is it that Erasmia, which has far fewer residents than Laudium, is catered for from the Philip Nel Fire and Ambulance Station, whereas Laudium residents have to wait for an ambulance to come from the Pretoria Central Ambulance Station, and empty ambulances frequently return from Atteridgeville? [Interjections.]

I raise these points because of the gross inequity that my people are suffering. According to the City Council of Pretoria’s record of financial details and statistical data on tariffs for 1987-88, issued by the City Treasurer’s department, the rates paid by Laudium property holders is higher than most of those paid by White property holders in those suburbs of Pretoria. Despite this, the service that we as a community of Pretoria have been receiving from both the City Council and the Transvaal Provincial Administration has been disgusting.

Yes, we are sick and tired of being prime contributors to the revenue of this province and receiving second and third rate facilities. [Interjections.] I also want the world to know today that numerous Indian people are dying because there is not proper emergency treatment available to them.

I know that the hon MEC in charge of hospital services is shaking his head, but I wish to tell him that numerous attempts by the Laudium Hospital Board and members of Parliament to arrange a meeting with him have failed. I do admit that in the one instance the hon MEC fell ill, and we can excuse him, but apart from that time we could still not meet the hon MEC in charge of hospital services.

If one is taken to the H F Verwoerd Hospital in the case of an emergency, one has to wait for hours before one is attended to by a doctor. There are no doctors available in the casualty ward at the H F Verwoerd Hospital in cases of emergencies. There are no services available at the hospital at Laudium for emergency services and casualty sections. We have to wait for a doctor to finish attending to his patients in the White section of the H F Verwoerd Hospital before he can come to attend to the other patients.

I do not know how long such circumstances can still continue. The non-White casualty section at the H F Verwoerd Hospital has degenerated into an absolute shambles. My people are dying because they have to wait for hours and hours before a doctor or a specialist attends to them in emergency cases. If the hon MEC in charge of hospital services wants details of particular cases, I am prepared to provide him with these. [Interjections.]

There are absolutely no other casualty facilities available to us, and the White Press has ignored the plight of emergency patients at the H F Verwoerd Hospital completely. Why must our patients wait for doctors first to finish examining White patients before they are summoned to attend to non-White patients?

I wish to repeat that my people are dying because of the lack of proper facilities. We have taken up this matter time and again, but the position is not changing. What is happening here in Pretoria is not the exception. We know what happens at other hospitals as well. We know of the stance adopted by the MEC in charge of hospital services in the Transvaal.

I wish to state today that the MEC in charge of hospital services has failed to meet the challenges facing him. [Interjections.] I do not wish to criticise him personally, because although I was going to say to him that the only solution was for him to resign, I am not going to ask him to do that today. [Interjections.] The question before us is whether he is competent to handle the task.

To return to the local hospital at Laudium, I wish to point out that it has been operational for several years. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I do not know whether what we have experienced here today is called farcical, but I wish to say that I think it has been a salutary experience for hon members of the Government to hear directly from the hon members of the Houses of Representatives and Delegates about the many legitimate grievances which the people have, whom they represent. I think it is a great pity that there are not Black members present to do exactly the same thing. I think it would be an eye-opener for many hon members who do not ever have the opportunity of having direct contact with those people.

I am talking on Vote 7.A.1. The hon member for Springs took the CP to task for not accepting the fact that Blacks are permanent residents in the metropolitan areas of the Republic.

That is not what I said. I said that they do accept it.

Did the hon member say that they do accept it?

Yes.

Well, it sounded to me as if the hon member said that they had for a long time not done so. In any event, I would say to the hon member for Springs that he and his party certainly took 30 years to recognise that elementary and obvious fact. The result of their dilatory acceptance is the proliferation of squatter camps around every metropolitan area in the Republic, and the most deplorable shortage of housing, which is now approaching 800 000 units. Steps are belatedly being taken, both in the identification of available land for site and service, and in tackling, together with the private sector, the actual provision of housing. It is happening belatedly indeed, however. Much remains to be done before one can say that one has even really begun to break the back of this tremendous problem.

One of my colleagues will be dealing with this in more detail tomorrow, so I shall not pursue the matter any further, except to urge the Administration to realise that more must be done about the problem of the Black and Coloured urban poor, a matter that has to be dealt with with great urgency, because I believe the provision of shelter is man’s most elementary need.

Why did you oppose Norweto?

I do not have to enter into an argument with that hon member about this. We do not want Black, White, Coloured and Indian areas. [Interjections.] We want the whole of the Republic open to everybody, to live wherever they can afford to do so. [Interjections.] One of the first things we would do is to repeal the Group Areas Act, for example. [Interjections.]

The question I wish to deal with today is that of forced removals, which I say are still being carried out by this Government despite the fact that we had the hon the Minister of Development Aid and Education way back in 1985 tell us that there were to be no more forced removals in South Africa, and the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning saying the same thing, only, he added that this applied to removals for political purposes. Nevertheless, we think he really affirmed what the hon the Minister of Development Aid and Education had said way back in 1985.

When is a forced removal not a forced removal? I say that the Government uses several devices at its disposal, and one example of this is that of the Oukasie township, just outside the town of Brits. What the Government has done there was firstly to deproclaim a perfectly legal Black township that had been in existence for some 75 years, and then to take action against the residents of that township who are resisting removal to another area, under the Prevention of Illegal Squatting Act. That means it deproclaims a legal township and then of course takes action under the Prevention of Illegal Squatting Act. In this way the Government, by applying various forms of pressure and harassment, which I shall describe in a moment, tries to get people to move “voluntarily”. I think the disgusting case of the Black township Oukasie is something members ought to know about.

On 26 April 1988 Oukasie, which had been deproclaimed as a legal township last year, was declared an emergency camp under the Prevention of Illegal Squatting Act. Ten pages of regulations were issued by the hon the Administrator, and the regulations have now been imposed on the 8 000 to 10 000 people who so far have been resisting removal from Oukasie to Lethlabile, which is some 25 km away from Brits.

Disgraceful!

Yes, it is disgraceful.

I ought to emphasise that Oukasie is on the edge of Brits. It is within walking distance of the town and within about four km of the industrial area. Many of the people there are out of work, since disinvestment, for instance, meant the closing of the Alpha Romeo plant in Brits. The township being so close to Brits means that the residents can at least walk into Brits and look for piecework, and pick up a little employment that way. Being removed 25 km out of Brits means that they would have to pay R1,70 for a return journey from Lethlabile and take a 40-minute journey each way.

There is now a constant police and army presence inside Oukasie. I understand that tents have been set up on the soccer field that belonged to that township, to accommodate them.

A survey is being undertaken in respect of which every person living there has to give the most detailed information: Name, sex, age, ID number, right of occupation, name of employer and remuneration, if any. Only residents and tenants with permits are now allowed to be there. No-one else can even stay overnight at a house in Oukasie. Nobody may keep an animal without special permission. [Interjections.] There is no sub-letting without permission, and no entry into the camp without permission, except for the resident and his family.

Is that Russia?

One might well ask whether that is Russia. The climate is different, but not much else.

No structural changes are allowed to the houses without permission, and worst of all is that the service charges, although no improvements have been made in the township, have been increased from R24,00 per month to R37,50 per month. [Interjections.] This happens in a township where unemployment is rife. [Interjections.] What is more, R15 per month has been added as an additional charge for services for each lodger.

I wish to say at once that the township is by no means ideal. There is no water borne sewerage or electricity, and the roads are very bad. I have visited there twice. I will, however, say this, that there are a number of good brick houses in the township, and the people do not wish to leave, quite obviously because of the distance involved if they move to Lethlabile.

There are heavy penalties, by the way, for contravention of these regulations: A fine of up to R500 fine or up to three months’ imprisonment for a first offence, or both, and a fine of up to R1 000 or six months’ imprisonment, or both, for a second offence.

I say it is nothing short of harassment. It is harassment to make these people move, but because it will not be at gunpoint, the Government will say it is a voluntary removal. I say that it is no such thing. There is no reason whatsoever why the conditions at Oukasie could not have been upgraded in situ. A feasibility study has been conducted which shows that this could have been done at a cost of R3 million. There is no reason at all why people should not have had taps and flush-toilets put into these areas.

I believe that the hon the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning has betrayed these people. He gave me his personal assurance that he would not force the removal of the Oukasie residents and I believe this is an indirect method of forced removal, if it is not, as I said, an actual direct removal. It is a scandalous betrayal of a solemn undertaking and the Government and the Administration ought to be ashamed of themselves.

Koster is another case in point. This is a Black township established in 1929, nearly 60 years ago, right next to the White residential area. It has a total … [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I am thrilled that the Chair announced me as the hon member for Eldorado Park. I have been trying to find it on the maps given to us by the province, in order to describe where my constituency is. I did not see it. I did not see it, because the community of 200 000 people is not known to the province of the Transvaal. Not only that, but many other towns in the Transvaal are also not known.

I will give hon members an example. When one goes to Witbank from Johannesburg, one passes one of the biggest cities around eastern Johannesburg, called Daveyton. On that road there is no indication where one can turn into this place. There is an indication to Klipfontein, but Daveyton is never indicated. When one comes back from Witbank, it is even worse if one does not know the place. Regarding all the new cities that are springing up in South Africa, nobody can identify them or visit them, because there is no identification. The reason is that not all the people are represented here. Even though we are represented now, in the past it was very difficult for the people who have been running this country alone to know exactly what happens in our places.

I want to speak about health services in my constituency. Many years ago, in 1977, my community consisted of about 150 000 people. Because there was a lack of health facilities in our community, we decided to demonstrate that we could try and do something for ourselves. Wits students who were practising at Baragwanath Hospital and at Coronation Hospital, together with local doctors, mostly Indian doctors, decided to run a curative clinic once a week. We looked for accommodation, but could not find any. I had to sacrifice my home. I had three bedrooms and these were turned into examination rooms. My kitchen was used as a dispensary. It started at seven o’clock in the evening and continued until one o’clock in the morning. The students used to see about 100 people a night. We did this for two years at my home and after that the city council built a clinic and we decided to use that in the evenings. That continued until 1979 or 1980.

At that time the province knew that it had to do something about Eldorado Park. We had a site in Extension 4 where we wanted to provide housing. The province communicated with the City Council of Johannesburg and said that they would like to acquire this land for the immediate erection of a hospital. That land was given, but because it was not proclaimed at the time—it was only proclaimed in 1984—the entire community of Eldorado Park and the area next to us, Dominionville, was patiently waiting for a hospital to be erected there.

We wanted the hospital, because it became very difficult for the people to travel to Coronation Hospital. It became very difficult for us to go to the hospitals surrounding Eldorado Park. At the present moment, an old-age pensioner going to Coronation Hospital must pay R15 for the ambulance. An ordinary person must pay R28 to go to Coronation Hospital. That is the truth. I can show hon members the receipts to prove it. People who are involved in accidents and must be rushed to hospital normally die before they reach the hospital.

I want to make it clear that the hospital I have mentioned, Coronation Hospital, is a beautiful hospital to us. They give one the best treatment in the world, even if it is overcrowded. We used to go to Baragwanath Hospital, because we lacked a hospital. Unfortunately, it became so overcrowded that our people were prevented from going there, except for emergencies. We have had about five emergencies where busses carrying a number of people overturned and Baragwanath Hospital was of service to us.

However, what is important is that we tried by all possible means to do something for ourselves, because we identified the need in our community. Of course, we expect the authorities to follow, and to listen exactly to what the people want.

Another problem facing us concerns outpatients, people who have been in Coronation Hospital and, because the hospital is full, are sent home and have to attend an out-patient section of the hospital. Firstly, we have to find transport for these people. Of course, transport for pensioners and unemployed people is very difficult. Transport in general for people who must go through Uncle Charlie’s at all times to reach the hospital is so difficult that the only reasonable thing to do is to see to it that a hospital is established nearby.

I am not against all hospitals being opened to everybody. I believe that every hospital in Johannesburg must be open to all communities, because in every White area there are people of colour. There are Blacks there. It is a difficult situation if one stays in a beautiful area like Houghton and one has to rush one of one’s servants to Baragwanath Hospital, instead of going to the General Hospital nearby. It is difficult for anybody who lives in any place where there is a hospital nearby to be told they cannot enter because of the colour of their skin. That does not work. That is why we are saying that all the empty beds in all hospitals should be used for the communities nearby. However, where it is viable, a community should have a hospital. It should not only be for Coloured people, but for the people of Johannesburg, or perhaps for the people who use the road. Anybody who is involved in an accident should be allowed into the hospital, because a hospital should not have regard for colour. It should be for the use of all people.

I do not want to overemphasise this, but it is important that poor people have access to health services. To me it is important that poor people are able to go to a hospital. They can walk there if they can still walk, or they can be taken in a wheelbarrow.

It is also important for the parents of those who are in hospital to be able to visit them. I will tell hon members about a little incident which occurred in my own community. A certain man was stabbed. When he was in Coronation Hospital his friends wanted to visit him but in order to get to the hospital they had to have money for a taxi. They did not have any money. The story ended with one of them taking someone’s wheelbarrow and hosepipe and selling these in order to obtain the necessary money to get to that particular hospital to visit their friend.

Mr Chairman, are we not corrupting our own communities? Are we not corrupting our own society in South Africa by forcing people to do bad things in order to accomplish something good for their friends? I feel that at this stage we do not want to have our South African community turned into what the Russians or the French call forced delinquent proletarians. If a man is not a worker he should not be left to live by his wits. Let us not force people to do that. [Time expired]

Mr Chairman, it is a great privilege for me to be able to participate in this meeting today. I should very much like to congratulate the hon the Administrator and his Executive Committee on the fantastic progress they have already made in this province of ours in order to prove that people of all population groups can work together here.

The hon MEC Mr Schoeman spelt out very clearly that today we are dealing with the quality of life of all our people here in the Transvaal. I suppose one cannot really blame the hon members of the House of Representatives for using this platform today to get rid of their emotional frustrations.

They are not emotional! It is a disgrace to put it like that! [Interjections.]

At least this proves that we have come a long way and that we are giving everyone in this country an opportunity to have a say in the democratic set-up; as well as an opportunity to raise their problems here so that we can try to find solutions to everyone’s problems.

This afternoon I want to talk about Vote No 4— “Hospital Services”. This would seem to me to be the problem we are going to discuss most here today. As a matter of a fact a great deal has already been said about it. The health of all our people in the Transvaal is very important. For that reason it is essential that with the available finance—I want to emphasise “available finance”—the best and most effective services are provided at the 76 hospitals and more than 40 clinics in the Transvaal. It has already been mentioned here today that the Transvaal, which accommodates 47% of the total population of South Africa, does not receive as much money as it should. I was therefore gratified when the hon the Administrator said here today that a formula was being worked out in terms of which a fairer distribution of finance between the four provinces could be achieved.

For the 1988-89 financial year R1,625 billion has been voted for hospital and health services. Owing to a shortage of finance the amount has been cut to R1,387 billion, and it therefore goes without saying that all the needs cannot be met and that certain services must of necessity be curtailed. At present the Transvaal needs R92 million to provide the basic equipment to hospitals. This amount was curtailed to R20 million, and it is therefore fair to assume that quite a lot less can be purchased. It is important to replace outdated equipment, and every possible effort is being made to cut down on repair costs as much as possible.

Of course in certain cases so much has already been paid in repair costs that the relevant equipment could probably have been replaced several times over. This year an amount of R35 million has been voted for the replacement of outdated x-ray equipment. However, because only R10 million is available only one-third of this can be replaced. Unfortunately hospitals in the Transvaal are competing with private institutions, that can afford to buy the latest and most expensive equipment. Of course these people are not subject to many financial restrictions. These institutions concentrate on profits, and accordingly charge high patient fees. They also pay their nursing staff higher salaries than the provincial hospitals can afford.

The Transvaal subsidises a large number of non-paying patients, and we must never forget that two-thirds of our country’s inhabitants are Third World people. We must also provide facilities for them, and every effort is being made to recover bad debts. This nevertheless remains a problem.

At the moment there are more than 400 beds standing empty. This is because of a shortage of money. Owing to a lack of finance those beds simply cannot be used. If this can be done this will greatly relieve a situation where existing facilities are already becoming inadequate.

Staff also remains a problem. At the moment the nurse: patient ratio is 0,9:1, whereas the ideal ratio is 1,52:1. Hospitals are trying to improve the situation by providing additional services. I want to state very clearly here that we take our hats off to all the hospital staff who work long hours of overtime without additional compensation. However, this is not the ideal state of affairs. Hon members will agree with me on this. At the moment there are 2 219 vacant posts which cannot be filled owing to a shortage of money. In spite of all the problems which the Transvaal is experiencing with its finances I nevertheless want to state unequivocally today that all patients, irrespective of race, colour or creed, are treated the same in our provincial hospitals.

†Mr Chairman, a lot has already been said about the H F Verwoerd training hospital, where 90% of our qualified doctors still remain to render their services to this country. So many of those trained doctors serve throughout the Transvaal. I do want to state categorically, however, that we are very proud of the cancer unit we have at the H F Verwoerd Hospital. It is one of the best cancer units in the world, for which I want to salute Dr Faulkson and his staff.

It is becoming more and more important to improve the health standards of our people in order that less can be spent on hospitals and on health services. Early diagnosis and treatment in relation to cancer is very important. The reality today is that 25% of our population are cancer prone. The position in Great Britain is that 24% of the total population die as a result of cancer. A total cure for cancer is still beyond our reach. Moreover the treatment of cancer is expensive. If we take into account, however, that in Great Britain the cost of cancer treatment comprises only 1,3% of that country’s total medical costs that seems quite realistic.

*Eighty percent of our patients suffering from cancer will be treated by means of oncology. This is the term which nowadays is used internationally for chemotherapy. At present it is very important that in the treatment of cancer patients cognisance is taken not only of the patient but also of the kind of cancer and of the kind of substances administered and in certain cases not administered. Surgery and radiotheraphy can only cure 20% of cancer sufferers. Today more than 270 main kinds of cancer are already known, and a large number of these are curable if they are diagnosed in time.

At the H F Verwoerd Hospital an entirely new approach is being adopted. This involves total planning and a total knowledge of the patient— not only physical but also psychic. Cancer medicines are expensive, but in spite of this oncology is effective because the treatment is only administered by properly and specially trained medical practitioners on a daily basis. The most expensive single item in any health budget is the admission of patients. The sooner a patient can therefore be discharged the better, and the lower the costs.

What is so phenomenal is that in 1987 a total of 44 000 cancer patients were treated by this unit. What is more there are only 26 beds in the ward allocated to the unit. This sounds almost unbelievable, but the patients are treated on a daily basis, after which they return home to the warmth and intimacy of their families. Of course, this means a great deal psychologically to the recovery of that patient.

It is also important for the treatment of cancer not to be decentralised, owing to the costs involved. At present there are two units for the treatment of cancer in the Transvaal—one at the H F Verwoerd Hospital and the other at the Hillbrow Hospital. All races are treated there. I myself saw people from Ga-Rankuwa—ambulances full of them—arriving and being treated with great compassion at the H F Verwoerd Hospital. If one takes into consideration that the number of Black patients is increasing one realises how important thorough planning is.

†The side-effects of cancer treatment are still a problem. However, it is good to know that experiments are underway to develop a new cancer medication which does not cause nausea. I believe this will be available in one or two years’ time. It would be a tremendous breakthrough. Notwithstanding the negative reports which so often appear in the Press, on services, especially with regard to those services in some of our Black hospitals, I want to state here categorically that the services the patients receive in Transvaal provincial hospitals are of the best. No sick patient is ever turned away because there is no room for him, although facilities are limited and often overcrowded. Seneca, that old sage, said thousands of years ago: “The wish for healing has ever been the half of health.”

*On behalf of all of us here in the Transvaal I wish to express my thanks and appreciation to all the medical practitioners, the sisters, the nurses and the assistant nurses of all races who perform their duties so unselfishly and their work under difficult conditions in the service of their fellow-man.

Mr Chairman, since the introduction of the Group Areas Act the Indian community has lost tremendously. They have lost their properties and they have lost their businesses. What were they paid in return? They were actually paid peanuts for their properties and their businesses. The Indian community also had a joint family system. However, this system was destroyed by the Group Areas Act. When the joint family system still functioned, the parents and their sons lived together and the sons would bring in their wives. However, today they have to look for their own homes.

At present there is, especially in Lenasia and Laudium, a tremendous shortage of homes.

Actonville too!

Actonville too, and this is causing concern to the Indian community. Not only in the Indian community, but in most communities housing is just about the greatest shortage that is faced today.

I want to draw hon members’ attention to Lenasia. This township was developed approximately 27 years ago. It has a population of about 120 000. The Indian community of Lenasia has suffered a lack of services such as hospital services. In this regard I want to support the call by the hon member Mr Seedat and the hon member for Parktown that the hospital at Lenasia should be given top priority. I believe this is a must.

At present the Indian community have to take their sick to the Coronation Hospital, which is some distance from Lenasia. In the case of an accident, hon members can imagine the delay in the arrival of an ambulance. Here, too, the ambulance services are not all that efficient, and the injured have to travel quite a distance. The delay could also cost the life of an injured person. Our old folk are also faced with this dilemma, especially people of 60 to 70 years old who have to travel quite a distance by bus. I think we should endeavour to get the hospital in Lenasia opened as soon as possible.

I also want to touch on the question of clinics. I believe clinics should be established in as many areas as possible. This will alleviate the overcrowding in hospitals. This will also help many mothers-to-be, and will save time lost in travelling.

Turning to the question of roads, I would like to say that the street lighting on the Lenasia South highway is causing concern to the people of Lenasia South. I had the opportunity of witnessing an accident there. There are no lights whatsoever on that highway, and there are also no traffic lights. We are living in a modern age, not in olden times. We need these essential services, for which we are paying. We are contributing to the coffers of the province and the City Council. We are paying rates, and I think we deserve these services.

Many accidents occur, and people’s lives are lost. I am aware of one such accident which took place in Lenasia, and the bodies of the victims were found only the following day by a White woman. Nobody knew the accident had taken place because that road is totally dark. I think residents of Lenasia would agree with me. We badly need street lights there, as well as traffic lights.

Another area where there are no street lights is Lenasia Extension 10. There are lights in the houses, but for some or other reason there are no street lights. This is causing concern among the people living there.

I would like to move on to another matter. A traffic officer summarily cancelled the popular Jock of the Bushveld marathon, which is normally held during Easter in Barberton. This caused untold inconvenience to the participants. I want to know from the hon the Administrator whether this matter has been investigated, and if not, why not. What steps have been taken against the official who was rude and arrogant towards the participants? Was he reprimanded? What steps are to be taken to avoid a repetition of this incident? Should this official not first seek permission from his senior inspectors before taking such a drastic step?

As far as recreational facilities in Indian towns are concerned, there is also a lack of sporting facilities to which the authorities must give serious consideration. We also need swimming pools, community halls and libraries. This is a must.

I also want to support the call made by the hon the Minister of Local Government and Agriculture (Delegates) in connection with the Indian relics in Nelspruit. I believe this matter must be given serious consideration. The people who are concerned about this and who are involved in this should get together and discuss this matter before reaching a final decision.

In conclusion I want to appeal to the Government to spend more money on education and social needs, which to my mind is the right thing to do at this point in time.

I would like to wish the hon the Administrator and his wife a happy retirement.

Mr Chairman, I am certainly going to make history on this historic occasion by complying with the Whips’ instructions and making the shortest speech in this Committee.

I want to refer very briefly to the Hospital Services Vote. I want to ask the hon MEC entrusted with this portfolio what progress is being made with the academic hospital at the H F Verwoerd Hospital. Although we are aware of the considerable capital expenditure that is involved here and of the demands a project of this nature makes on the financial treasury, we are equally aware of the importance of establishing an additional academic hospital. We are grateful that Pretoria is receiving preference in this connection.

I should like to know from the MEC in question what the time-scale of this specific project will be. What time-schedule are we talking about when it comes to a project such as the academic hospital? I accept that everything cannot be completed in one financial year; consequently it is important to hear what the specific time-schedule for the whole project will be.

We acknowledge that the project is going according to plan at the moment, however, and are grateful for that. As a result of various activities at the H F Verwoerd Hospital, however, there are fundamental problems on the site itself, specifically with reference to parking facilities. A number of complaints have been received from the public and from visitors who complained that parking facilities were sadly lacking. Although we understand the public’s problem, we appeal to the visiting public to be patient. Once the project has been finalised and the extensions and the roads at the H F Verwoerd Hospital have been completed, I believe that everyone will benefit— both the visitors and the general public. On behalf of the hospital, we are making a serious request to our public to be truly patient in this connection, to show understanding for this problem, and to accept the present situation for the moment. We should like to wish the H F Verwoerd Hospital everything of the best with their future plans.

Mr Chairman, I want to express my thanks for this opportunity to make a contribution in this Budget debate on Provincial Affairs. We have heard many things about hospitals and other matters this afternoon. The hon member for Bezuidenhout, for example, said the politicizing of hospital services must be stopped. I want to say that we did not come here to politicize these matters, but it is true that these matters were politicized earlier. The Transvaal Provincial Administration has been governing for 75 years, and they are the people who caused these matters to be dealt with on a political basis. We had no say and could not make any contribution to the decision as to where the hospitals should be situated, who should visit them, etc.

I am going to talk on a constituency level now, and refer specifically to the Coronation Hospital. The Coronation Hospital is situated close to Johannesburg, approximately 15 kilometres from the centre of Johannesburg. The J G Strijdom Hospital, a White hospital, is two kilometres from the Coronation Hospital. We are privileged at the moment, because—I do not know whether this is true, but according to the Provincial Administration it is—when a hospital has a nurses’ training college, it qualifies as a general hospital. I now want to know what applies at the J G Strijdom Hospital, because they also have a nurses’ training college—the Ann Latsky Nurses’ Training College. The Coronation Hospital has to serve the people of Lenasia, Annadale, Eldorado Park, Coronationville, Newclare and the other surrounding Coloured residential areas, because it is the only hospital which our Coloured people can go to for treatment, whereas the Whites have a number of other hospitals which are not fully utilised. Apartheid is the cause of these separate hospitals, and this has caused the death of many people who were ill.

I want to mention two specific cases in this regard. The one concerned a White man who was stabbed on a train from Johannesburg at Newclare Station. The hospital is half a kilometre from the station, but because it is a non-White hospital, they had to take him to a hospital in Roodepoort. He died as a result. There is also the case of two Black nurses who wanted to help a White man on the East Rand, but a White man then decided that those Blacks could not touch that man, perhaps because he felt that their “paint” was too wet and that that man would become Black as well … [Interjections] … and he also died.

That is a disgrace!

The Coronation Hospital was built for 150 patients. There are 503 beds in that hospital today. According to the speech of Dr Kirstein, who received us, 44 additional beds were given to the Coronation Hospital as an extension. It is not really an extension, because it merely provides relief with regard to the already overcrowded hospital wards. Where some beds stood in passages and where people had to lie in the passages and on the floors, they merely moved these beds to the other wards to grant relief there.

Then there is the question of the hospital’s budget. The budget has again been cut by approximately R5 million. Sir, I do not know how one can function effectively if one has to work with a budget smaller than what one requested.

There is also the problem of transport. Approximately seven of the hospital vehicles have been stolen, and already there is a shortage of vehicles. At present only one has been replaced. They are assisted by the local garage in Langlaagte which gives them a vehicle now and then, but these vehicles are in such a state that they have to be repaired every so often. If the department’s roads section is responsible for the insurance of these vehicles, why cannot they replace these vehicles? If they do not want to bear the burden of insuring these vehicles with a private company, our people have to struggle to do their work and to get to a hospital. Last year we requested two vehicles so that nurses could go out to patients who could be treated better at home than in a hospital, and room could be made for those people who really need hospitalisation. As of yet no vehicle has been provided for this purpose.

At the moment the occupation of beds at the Coronation Hospital is 93,28% for the year. The J G Strijdom Hospital, which is two kilometres away, also has a nurses’ training college, with the result that they are also classified as a general hospital. Why can these vacant beds in the J G Strijdom Hospital not be used, and the services shared by the two hospitals, since they are so close to one another? I should like an answer to that.

With reference to the hospital’s overcrowding, we want to request—and this has been requested by numerous people—that in order to provide relief at the Coronation Hospital, the hospital at Lenasia is not seen by the people of Annadale, Soweto and Eldorado Park—everyone who lives close to the hospital—as a hospital that was built only for Indians, but as a hospital that was built for the community that lives near the hospital; that this hospital is thrown open very quickly so that there will be sufficient room for the people from other areas; and that more day hospitals are created in our areas so that people who live too far away from the hospital need not unnecessarily stay there overnight, but can rather be treated at their clinics.

I also want to ask how much progress has been made with the extension of the out-patient section at the Coronation Hospital, because that would provide great relief for the people who have to spend hours waiting at the hospital. Perhaps the extension of the out-patient section could receive more attention.

I now want to talk about resorts. We are complaining about a backlog. There are 11 White resorts in the Transvaal, as opposed to one for Coloureds and Indians—it is the same one; we have to share it. The Executive Committee is a multiracial committee. We do not agree with the fact that these resorts now have to be classified as own affairs, because over a period of 75 years the Whites have had 11 resorts built for them, whereas we have only one. How are we going to catch up on a backlog, which has built up in 75 years, in such a short time?

Never! [Interjections.]

Since the province’s executive management committee is multiracial, I want to ask whether the MEC entrusted with these resorts has any objection to taking some of his members who are not White to these resorts, and if not, why the resorts cannot be thrown open for the use of everyone?

Do the squatters know about that?

Although we did not make a very big financial contribution to the Treasury in earlier years, that was not our fault. It was the Government’s fault. They did nothing about our receiving lower salaries and being underpaid, and the result is that …

You cannot lay all the blame on us!

It is your fault; you governed the country!

That cannot be true!

It is true, Sir! [Interjections.] [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I knew that the Leader of the Official Opposition in the House of Assembly would walk out before I spoke.

Give them a hiding!

The reason is that I represent the Northern Transvaal, the entire Northern Transvaal, while they only represent a small portion of the Transvaal. That is why they walked out! There could also be another reason why they walked out. [Interjections.] They made poor history today.

Another possible reason why they walked out today was that they were canvassing for tonight’s protest meeting. One seldom walks out for no reason at all.

Mr Chairman, I would like to refer to situations regarding Vote No 4: “Hospital Services”. I agree that this is an historic day in the life of South Africa. Perhaps it would have been more historic—I underline the word “historic”—if Blacks were given an opportunity to sit with us and discuss and debate these issues with us. [Interjections.] I indeed feel privileged to take part in this debate.

Before I dwell on what I will try to speak about, I first wish to convey my thanks to the hon the Administrator and wish him luck in his days of retirement. At the same time, however, I want to say that when we need him, we will come for him. We need the experience he has gathered over the years in his capacity as Administrator of the Transvaal. We know that his performance as Administrator has been quite good, and we will call upon him whenever we need him. He must never close his door when we need him.

I said earlier that this was an historic day, and I am going to contribute to the discussion on Vote No 4: “Hospital Services”. I have a problem in that the towns in my constituency are headed by men who walk out so that I have a problem when it comes to hospitalisation. In an area like Brits, which is about 70 to 72 kilometres from here, there is a hospital within walking distance. There is a small Coloured settlement there— Noodkamp—and it is small because it is overpopulated. They have to pass the hospital on their way to town, but they may not go there for health services. [Interjections.] What is hurtful, and what fills me with bitter feelings, is that amongst the residents there are the aged who are infirm and sickly. They have to wait for their pensions, and after pension day they must collectively hire a taxi—a kombi—to go to the H F Verwoerd Hospital because they do not provide services for members of our community at the Brits hospital.

If the province has to spend so much money on one hospital when the other residents have to wait for their pensions and then travel about 72 km and still wait at the hospital before they receive services, I want that to be investigated. It is of no avail to be told from time to time that it depends on the numbers—two or four beds to 500 patients. That is beside the point. The people want day-to-day treatment. They need tablets; they do not need to lie there. There are of course chronic cases where the people will go and He there, but I am referring to those people who will wait until they receive their small pensions, and then, thereafter, go collectively, as a group, to hospitals. In most cases, when they get to the hospital the time for which they received their tablets has almost elapsed. That is a matter which must be investigated. It is quite true that there is a clinic there, but what do we expect of the clinic? Something must be done—we need a thorough investigation. It is useless for hon members to shake their heads and write this down—we need results! That is what we want! Brits is an old town and Pretoria is an old town. If hon members had known that there was such a situation, they would have addressed it long ago. [Interjections.]

Then we double tax!

You can pay twice; you can afford it!

Another issue which is very disheartening, is that for a small agricultural community far away in the Northern Transvaal on the slopes of the Sout-pansberg—the Buysdorp area—the nearest hospital is about 72 km from Buysdorp. What happens is that if someone is sick they have to hire transport to get there, and being a White hospital, they are turned away, irrespective of the fact that the man is about to die. The nearest hospital to that one is the one in the Republic of Venda— the Elim Hospital. They then have to take the patients there. In this beautiful country of ours, where the sun shines all the time, where we have warmth and yet where people walk about with bitter feelings, where are we leading our country?

To Venda!

My party believes in negotiations. We want to consider and discuss these issues that make us bitter. It is not that hon members do not know this; I know they already have answers for what I am going to say, because it has been said so many times already, and it will only be repeated again.

Now, what are we going to do in such a situation? [Interjection.] Right. Those who feel they cannot take their patients to Venda, may take them to Pietersburg, which is about 112 km from Buysdorp. You can forget about the patients being visited. In some cases a patient will die there without the family knowing, and when they go there, they find that the person is dead. I think something is wrong in this regard. We should investigate this.

There is another issue I want to raise. Just the other day I was called to Warmbaths. There is a small school there with 58 pupils—it is a small area. Twenty of those 58 pupils—over 30%— have bilharzia. One asks oneself why this should be so. One has Overvaal there, with all the facilities, but these poor children have to walk through the bush to a muddy dam to go and swim there—Warmbaths is a warm place, and they have to swim. Now they all have bilharzia. Whose fault is that? There is something wrong. It must be investigated. But this is not all. When the principal discovered that the children were listless—boys were sitting there like 40 or 50-year olds—he started investigating, and then he discovered this. He collected the children, obtained transport and took them to Warmbaths. When he got there, they said he should go to Nylstroom. Now he is involved in raising money from a community that is unemployed and lives in shacks. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I have heard a lot of things hurled at the NP today, but this is the first time in my short career as a politician that I have ever been accused of causing bilharzia amongst children.

Nobody blamed you!

The whole day I have been listening to everyone telling me that the NP is entirely responsible for everything that happens in this country. [Interjections.] I should like to say that I would like these people who have shouted at us today to have lived under Jannie Smuts; I would like them to have lived under the South African Party, and particularly I would like them to have lived under the British—I really would have. [Interjections.]

One of the first books that I ever read about the mixing of the nations in this country was a British book, the life story of Colonel Graham, and it was called A proper degree of terror. That is how the British described their administration in this country.

I have heard a lot of criticism, but nobody who has criticised us today has told us how, in this country at the tip of Africa, we are going to find the money to do everything that they tell us we have to do. The British and Jannie Smuts and everybody else I know never said to us: “Right, you deserve houses, you deserve education, you deserve this, you deserve that.” As far as I know, we in this country had to fight and earn everything we got. I think there is a pretty good chance that everybody who lives in this country at the moment is going to get a fair deal, and I think that the sooner the people that criticise us realise that, the better. [Interjections.]

I think that this meeting today is one of the most significant meetings I have attended. I think that had it not been significant—I heard a senior hon member who spoke before I did, describe it as a farce—the CP would not have walked out. The CP cannot take what is happening here today. [Interjections.] I enjoy being shouted at by those people on my left, because a democratic process is taking place here today. I think it is an important one, and that is why the CP walked out of here today.

It has been interesting for me, at least, to hear the viewpoints of people. Take our laws—no matter how sincerely and well we make those laws, and how well we believe in them, today we learnt that there are people who see those laws from a different point of view, and I think that is democracy.

I would also like to see that when we hold this meeting in ten years’ time, there will be Blacks on the left here too—and I think my party is working slowly and surely to achieve this.

Why in ten years’ time?

However, I think that the Blacks are represented here today. The Blacks are represented in the person of a giant in the Transvaal, the person who administers all the money that we have at our disposal. He, I am pleased to say, came from Germiston as an MP and is now the Administrator of Transvaal. Our Administrator can speak most of the languages that the Blacks in this country speak.

That does not make him a Black.

I think that through everything that has been done since we started with this new dispensation of Government our Administrator has represented the Blacks, along with Mr John Mavuso, who in my eyes is a hero of the Transvaal.

*Mr Willem Cruywagen was born in a small town, the name of which I cannot even pronounce—I think it is Ugie in the Eastern Cape. He matriculated in Elliot and thereafter attended a college of education. Then he went to teach in the Cape. Later he went back to university—he chose a very bad university; he could have gone to Wits, but he went to Pretoria. Then he accepted—this was perhaps the greatest luck Germiston had in its entire history—a post in Germiston. Immediately afterwards he became a city councillor, and in 1961 he was elected …

On a point of order, Mr Chairman: What Vote is the hon member discussing?

General Administration, and I am trying to show, if hon members do not know it, how lucky they are to have the Administrator that they have.

We are not denying that.

Order! Hon members seem to be taking great pleasure in shouting from their seats. I do not think that by doing so they are according due respect to the speaker at the podium.

In 1974 he was appointed a Deputy Minister, then he was appointed a Minister, and in 1978 he became the Administrator of the Transvaal. Although he is going to retire soon, he will remain the chairman of the Hendrik Verwoerd Trust Fund and of the Voortrekker Monument Committee. I think it was this year that he received the Order for Meritorious Service, Gold.

†Our Administrator has left a mark on this province of ours, and I hope that whatever we deliberate today, whatever we think of, whatever we have achieved, whatever people say must still be done, his mark will stay in the Transvaal. I am particularly proud that he came from our city and that he has arranged the meeting that we have here today.

Business interrupted.