announced that the Committee on Standing Rules and Orders had appointed the following members to serve on the Select Committee on Miners’ Phthisis Acts Consolidation Bill, viz.: The Minister of Mines and Industries, Messrs. Duncan, Sampson, O’Brien, Dr. Visser, Sir Ernest Oppenheimer, the Rev. Mr. Mullineux, Mr. Nieuwenhuize and the Rev. Mr. Hattingh.

I have been asked by the hon. member for Durban (Central) (Mr. Robinson) to move —

seconded.

Agreed to.

I put a question to the Minister of Defence on the 6th of March— Question No. VIII, which appears on page 169 of the Votes. His reply was that if I referred to his answer given and waited for the return which had been asked for by the hon. member for Griqualand (Mr. Gilson) I would get the information I desired. I waited for the return, but I cannot extract from the answer or return the answers I wanted to my question. Will the Minister now be good enough to answer the questions put to him on the 6th of March?

If the hon. member will examine: the answer given to the hon. member for Griqualand, I think he will find that that answer combined with the return answers his question.

No; they do not help me in the least, and I will put the question again.

I cannot allow further discussion on this question. The hon. member should put the question on the Order Paper.

Mr. Speaker, I want your ruling on a point of order. If an hon. member of this House tables a question to a Minister and the Minister does not answer the question, does that impose on the member the obligation of repeating the question? I consider that as a matter of courtesy the question should be answered.

This is a matter entirely at the discretion of the Minister. Ministers, are not compelled to reply to a question.

moved, as an unopposed motion and pursuant to notice—

seconded.

Agreed to.

I wish to move—

Has the hon. member consulted the Minister concerned? It is usual to do this beforehand.

I have not consulted the Minister

I move—

I do not believe it is necessary for me to say anything.

seconded.

Various members have asked me if it is the intention to adjourn on Thursday at 6 p.m. or at 11 o’clock, 11 o’clock is very near Good Friday.

At 11 o’clock.

May I call the Prime Minister’s attention to the fact that if the House sits on Thursday before Easter this will put members who live in the north in a very awkward position. As the hon. the Prime Minister knows a train does not leave for the Free State on Friday except to Bloemfontein but then one has to remain over there and I would therefore like to ask the hon. the Prime Minister to adjourn at 6 o’clock.

I would just say that this point was not brought to my notice before but if the House wishes it I will agree. I do not in that event wish to oppose it.

I am glad to hear this from the hon. the Prime Minister because it will be a great convenience to many members. There are many members who want to leave for the north by the evening train. The Government has been so good as to give us a short vacation for which we are thankful, we are still more thankful for this further concession.

Motion put and agreed to.

I move—

I must honestly say that I was agreeably surprised that this motion was received so well on all sides of the House. I hope that the Minister of Railways will receive it just as heartily, but not in the same way as his predecessor has for some years been doing. I know that the Minister is honourable in everything that he does, and I hope that he will say in his reply that he is going to accept the motion and I know that he will do it. But I hope that he will not do it in the same spirit as his predecessor. I have come to the House with the same motion for the last five years, and every time it has been accepted, but I am still waiting, and other members are also still waiting, that effect shall be given thereto. I do not want to say much, because I see that we have a mass of proposals which members want to see adopted. I am, however, convinced that hon. members who have made a visit to the north-western Free State will unanimously agree that that part has been neglected so far as railways are concerned, and that railway development will be necessary. Those portions, and also the north-western portion of the old Cape Province, have been treated in a step motherly manner in the past. If we make a comparison with other areas, for instance, with the Cape Peninsula, one can hardly move, or you are running into a railway. And we find that they are still engaged here in agitating for more railways. They are no longer satisfied with steam traction, but want electricity. But in the north-west of the Free State we have an extended country which has to make a living. They must be encouraged, because at the moment they have no facilities for reaching the market. If hon. members will look at the map they will see that these lines which I propose will go through an extensive country of 12,000 square miles, where there is not one inch of railway, and a large portion thereof is eminently suited for agricultural development.

Old people stick well.

Yes, there are old people, but if he will pay a short visit there, I am certain that he will come to a different conclusion. It is said that certain parts of the country are our granary. The real granary of the land will be the north-western portions of the Free State. I will only give a few facts to the House. From Vierfontein to Bothaville a line of 22 miles was built by the previous Government about 10 years ago. Before the line was completed the farmers produced about 60,000 bags of mealies. Two years later about 600,000 bags were carried over the 22 miles railway. Our ground is extraordinarily fruitful there. It is so fruitful that the farmers—and I also did this—-planted during the past 18 years mealies on the same ground without a drop of fertilizer, and it has produced every year the same generous crop, except last year in consequence of locusts and drought. This year it is a strange and a beautiful sight to look over the lovely hills of Hoopstad. I am certain that if hon. members come there now they will see that the country has changed into a Canaan. I know of cases where the farmers, two months ago, estimated their mealie crop between 5,000 and 6,000 bags, and recently when I met them again, when the mealies were in cob, they estimated the harvest at between 7,000 and 8,000.

The Free State estimates a little high.

We do not farm with crayfish. This proves what wonders can be worked if the Government will only give a little encouragement to the people, if they will only assist them to get their produce to the market. The distance from Bothaville to the main line to which a railway must be built, and the lines I propose, is about 200 miles. I acknowledge that, perhaps, some parts will not produce so much as some of the others, but those parts have other advantages. There are diamond mines. The hon. members for Beaconsfield (Sir David Harris) and Kimberley (Sir Ernest Oppenheimer) will admit that there are special difficulties connected with the working of those mines in consequence of the absence of proper transport for coal, etc. I go further. The Minister of Lands said yesterday in the House that the state has no more land to give out to settlers. There is a great deal of such ground suitable for purchase. There is ground obtainable at from £4 to £5 per morgen. There is extended land for settlement. I am convinced that if the Government will only build a railway, then the farmers will no longer require farms of two or three thousand morgen to make a living, because they cannot reach the market, but four or six will be able to exist on such a farm and make a good living. I do not ask the Government to give us a railway out of sentiment. The principle was already acknowledged by the Free State Volksraad, and had not the second war of independence broken out, I do not doubt for a moment that that line would already have been built. The former Government also acknowledged that the line was necessary, and a further advance was prevented by the dissolution of Parliament last year. The condition was then such that I addressed arguments to the Government to enquire if it was advisable to send the Railway Board there. The Government had made a commencement in the matter. Then came the dissolution of Parliament and the Minister of Railways said that he would send the Railway Board nowhere. Immediately after the election I approached the Government. I am glad that the Minister of Railways has seen the necessity therefor, and that he has sent the Railway Board there. I do not know what the report is, but I am certain that they will agree in view of the knowledge they have with all that I have said here. In the second part of my motion I speak of the line to the Haagenstad-Saltpan. There we have a great industry. Everyone will acknowledge that the salt industry is still in its infancy and it ought to be encouraged. It is very difficult to transport the salt. We know what the condition of the people is there, and I am convinced that the Government would feel that the people who work very hard there with their hands and make little profit should be assisted. If they are not encouraged, then the danger exists that hundreds of families will give up hope. To show the seriousness of the matter, and to support what I have said here about the fruitfulness of the land, I want to say that I have received telegrams and also letters from farmers’ associations asking the Government to come to their help in connection with the transport of mealies to the market. They appreciate that the line if adopted cannot be completed in time and they are sitting with their hands in their hair to get the mealies removed. Therefore they ask the Government for help to grant motor transport for the purpose. I know that our latest prophet was sent to gaol, but nevertheless I want to prophesy when I come to the House next year that I tell hon. members that between two and three million bags of mealies have been produced.

Why is there a question of relief work?

I have not asked this year for relief work, that was last year. The Government flatters itself with the idea that it is in power to develop the country and I appeal to the Minister of Railways, if he is in earnest about the development of the country, to push this line through if it is possible. I know that it is “a tall order.” I know that there are many members who want to introduce motions and, therefore, it is not necessary for me to elaborate the subject in as much as the Government and the Railway Board are convinced that the line is desirable, and because the north western portions of the Free State have been treated in a stepmotherly way, I ask the Government to commence with one line, and not only to accept the motion formally. I hope that when the railway programme comes before the House this line will be No. 1. With these few words I propose the motion.

I second the motion, and I would say at once that when my hon. friend, the member for Hoopstad (Mr. Conroy) was speaking, I read concurrence on the face of the hon. Minister for Railways and Harbours as to the necessity of this line. I do not intend to say much, but I just want to mention a few small points. I do not wish to go over the same ground that the hon. member for Hoopstad has done. I think hon. members of the House and the Government feel the necessity of this railway. The western Free State has always been treated in a very step-motherly manner so far as railways are concerned. The district of Boshof contains progressive farmers and need not take a back place to any district, but they have as far as traffic facilities are concerned had to wait for other districts. If we get a railway in the districts of Boshof and Hoopstad, hon. members will be surprised at the progress which will be brought about in a few years in those districts. But to-day there is no means of getting goods to the market. My hon. friend the mover has made the matter very clear. I only want to mention a few more points. Boshof is not alone a splendid sheep district; we can also produce much grain and cattle. But today it is impossible to make cattle farming pay because the people cannot get their butter to the market. For that reason alone there is a great need for a railway. I only want to mention one instance of the progressiveness of the farmers there. If we take into consideration that the Boshof district has for 15 years been treated in a step-motherly way with regard to railways, we must be astonished that there is there one of the best schools in the Union, to which children come from the Cape and other parts. This is in consequence of the progressiveness of the inhabitants of the Boshof district. They are just as progressive as any other portion of the Union. I only want to add something in connection with the line to Koffiefontein via Bothaville. We shall get communication with Johannesburg. We shall be able to carry our grain there. On the other hand, we shall be connected with East London, and in this way will be able to import the goods that we require for the development of the country. It is very necessary. But not that alone. A portion of the districts with which we shall come into communication have not any grain, and we shall be able to dispose of our grain there. I want to call the Minister’s attention to the large number of important villages which will be served by the line. Bultfontein, Hoopstad, Hertzogville, Dealeville, and it is important that the line should be so built that Paardeberg and Petersburg will become the central points. If it is not possible to build the whole line, then I would urge the hon. Minister to build the line from Bothaville for 50 miles, and from a point along Bloemfontein-Kimberley, 50 miles. That will be of great importance and it will convince the people there that they are not forgotten. I just want to add about the last part of the motion, that is, the line from a point on the Bloemfontein-Brandfort line to the Hagenstad-Saltpans. I earnestly hope that this line will receive consideration. I wish to quote figures, not things in the air, but facts. It had already been decided in 1896, before the war, to build a line from the Bloemfontein-Brandfort line to Saltpans. We find to-day at Saltpans 50 to 60 producers of salt who represent 50 families. The 50 families produce more or less 150,000 bags of salt per annum. The 50 families sold 100,000 bags the last year at the average price of 10½d. per bag, between 9d. and 1s. per bag. This means £4,500 for the total yield, or £90 per average per household, and anyone who will visit the neighbourhood and become acquainted with the conditions will be surprised at the courage which is exhibited by the people in making a living in the district and to keep going. We have heard a lot of the people who have streamed to the villages during the last few years. Only yesterday we heard from the Minister of Lands how thousands of pounds are spent to help the poor whites. Those people at the Saltpans do their utmost to make a living, and they are consequently not a burden on the State, that is why they must be assisted. I have already said that they get on the average between 9d. and 1s. per bag, but if a railway is built to carry the salt, an extra 8d. per bag will come to the producers. This means an extra £2,300. Further, I have already said that 50,000 bags were not sold. This was not because there was no market, but at least 20,000 bags were cancelled because they •could not be transported. If there had been proper railway communications the 20,000 bags would in the first place have been sold, and it would have been an extra amount in the pocket of the producers. I would like to draw the Minister’s attention to the fact that instead of £44,500, fully £9,000 would have come in if there had been proper railway facilities, and instead of £90, every family would have got on the average £180. And if a heavy line cannot be built, then I would urge that a light line should be built. I think I have convinced the Minister of the necessity of this railway. I will only add this. If we get a railway, then instead of 150,000 bags we shall very soon produce 300,000. The people are very progressive, and they will do their best if they are assisted. We have heard of thousands of pounds being spent on relief works, here we have the people who are ready to make a living at the salt pans. We must meet them with the small expenditure for the building of a railway to keep them there.

I move, as an amendment—

I do not intend to delay the House long. The line that I propose is known to the Minister and the Railway Board. I will only say a few words with reference to the railway from Villiersdorp and the hon. member for Worcester (Mr. Heatlie) will then speak on the line from Worcester to Villiersdorp. Villiersdorp lies in the valley of the River Zonder-End which is one of the most fruitful in the Union. Villiersdorp is in regard to church, education and agricultural matters, one of the most progressive districts in the western province. The church it is one of the oldest established in the Union. With regard to education Villiersdorp has a high school which is of great use to our people. An opportunity is given there by means of bursaries for free lodgings, etc., to young people from the whole Union to prosecute their studies there and to follow the classes, and Villiersdorp is thus one of the useful places of the Union in educational matters. In agricultural matters it is known that Villiersdorp is very well suited for closer settlement and this occurs there naturally without State assistance with the consequence that it is regarded as one of the most go-ahead parts of the Western Province as regards agriculture, fruit farming and sheep farming. What I have said here is also applicable to the same valley lower down. There the ground along the River Zonder-End is suitable for great development and up to Genadendal it carries a population of 7,000. This is without any railway connection. I can also add that Villiersdorp has a factory which produces annually thousands of leaguers of moss up to as much as 500 leaguers of moss confyt. Notwithstanding the fact that the people there did not have railway communication this development has taken place. The same development can also occur between Bot River, Hermanus and Stanford and in connection with the line that I propose for that part I can also say this that it is a peculiar circumstance that this coastal line will not only run through one of the most delightful and beautiful parts of the coast in the country but that it also will go through one of the most fruitful agricultural parts of Caledon district. At the present time about 12,000 people every year are carried by motor car between Bot River and Hermanus. Stanford, which is the most fruitful part of Caledon, lies beyond Hermanus and will be served by this railway. I bring this matter to the notice of the Minister and the House with pleasure. It will not only be for the advantage of the district, but for the benefit of the whole country. Visitors from all parts of the country and from Rhodesia come there. Even to-day all the hotels and lodgings are full of people who are spending their holidays on that coast. I thus propose my amendment.

I have great pleasure in seconding the motion so ably put forward by the hon. member for Caledon (Mr. Krige) and I only wish to say a few words in support of it. This suggested line will traverse the Worcester district for a distance of about 30 miles and will pass through a very fertile part of the country, well adapted to fruit, cereal and sheep farming. This type of farming is already being carried on very extensively in that part. It is well known that fruit culture cannot be successfully pursued when you have no other transport than road transport and it is to-day being carried on at a very great disadvantage. The stretch of country through which this line would pass is already fairly well populated in small settlements mostly by people who are making a moderate income from their efforts. Once this line is constructed you will soon have in that area double the present population and you will have a natural system of closer settlement, without the aid, as the hon. member for Caledon has said, of Government funds. The only thing wanted is railway construction, so that they can have easy transport to the stations both to the north and to the south. In addition, there is at present a considerable motor transport on the road from Worcester via Villiersdorp to Hermanus and it would be, I think, an eye-opener to the Minister of Railways if he would take note of the extent of the traffic which is now going along the road. Many passengers from the north who wish to go to the sea leave the train at Worcester and travel through by motor to Villiersdorp and Hermanus, avoiding the roundabout rail route via Bellville. This traffic would also be an immediate source of considerable revenue to the proposed line. Already several deputations have waited upon the Minister. He knows that the people there want this railway. The Railway Board arid successive Ministers of Railways have travelled across that portion of the country. They know the country and they ought to have that line included in their next railway programme, otherwise they will not be doing justice to those parts. I feel confident that this line will be embodied in the next construction programme.

I move, as a further amendment—

I shall be particularly short, because there are 40 amendments on the paper asking for railways, and I want to give other hon. members a chance. I may say that I am very much in earnest with this proposal. Under the previous Government a motion for this line has already been introduced four times, but without success. We now have a new Government. I want afresh to bring to the notice of the Minister the necessity for this railway. I hope that the new Minister will have a little more sympathy with the requirements of the north-west and that he will favourably consider the building of this line, I may say that the Minister has gone so far as to build a line for north-western Namaqualand, and I hope that he will also approve of building the line which I now propose from Krom River Station to a point as near as possible to Loxton and from there to Fraserburg. The line has already been surveyed. The length is 110 miles, and it is along very level ground. I may say that several times deputations have gone to the Government to request them to grant the wishes of these people. The railway now asked for will go through a district where first-class wool is produced in large quantities. Besides this we can produce grain there. The production of grain can be largely increased. We have the Sakriver and the Brakriver, which are very well provided with water and cause much fruitfulness, and if we get a railway line we shall be in a position to largely assist in reducing the shortage of wheat which there is in the Union—I think this amounts to 1,000,000 bags. Besides this, there is an inexhaustible supply of fertilizer. In the Western Province there is a great need for fertilizer, and this could be sent on by us by railway. I want to mention another point. Our farmers are now going in a great deal for fencing, jackal-proof fencing, with the consequence that the roads are very limited and it becomes impossible to trek with sheep, therefore a railway is urgently required to carry the sheep. If this does not happen there will be a great calamity in those parts. The line is necessary to save thousands of sheep in cases of drought. I think I have made it clear that it is highly necessary that this railway should be built and I sincerely trust that the Minister will take it into favourable consideration. I only want to add that in the past the north-westerly districts have been treated in a very stepmotherly manner.

In seconding the amendment moved by the hon. member for Victoria (West) (Mr. du Toit), I feel that if the Government favourably considers the construction of a line from the point mentioned in the amendment of the hon. member, it will not only be doing what is right and proper in the transportation development of the Union, but will also earn the everlasting gratitude of every member of the community in that particular district.

I move, as a further amendment—

I want to make a small alteration in the motion, namely, by adding the words “via Polfontein.” It is not necessary for me to advocate the matter. The motion and the line speak for themselves, as everyone who knows the district will acknowledge. Members have been pleading strongly for railways for the northern Free State and other portions, but if we take into consideration that Bechuanaland is as large as one-third of the Free State, then it is astonishing that it has not a single railway. We shall then also acknowledge that it is necessary that a railway should be built, because we have there to do with the pioneers who open up the world. In other lands, we should find that railway communication goes in front and that settlers follow. But here with us the settlers have preceded, and the railway is not yet there. The people are there, and they are now congregated in a heap and will die unless they get railway communication. I know that the difficulties of the Minister are very great, but I think that he is one of the few in Parliament who have already been about in that district, and I need not plead with him for the building of this line when one sees how urgent the calls are for railway communication in the Transvaal and the western portion of the Free State. I feel that it is time that something was done.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

I am glad that I also have an opportunity of explaining my amendment. I have introduced this motion in the House for the last five years. It is one of the most important railways that can be built in South Africa, i.e., the railway from Benoni to Pietersburg via Bronkhorstspruit. The line will run through one of the richest portions of our land, and the area will be developed by it. The East Rand is one of the richest portions in the world and gold will be found there for at least another 50 years. People who do not know these parts cannot imagine how flat the rich gold reef runs there. It is not as in Johannesburg where the gold must be mined very deep, but the mines I am talking about will continue the longest, and there you have the future market of South Africa. Further, the line runs through an area which is thickly populated which is also of great importance in connection with the building of a railway, that is why I propose the line to Bronkhorstspruit and from there to the Bushveld, a part that as yet has no railway, and which is very rich. The area that the proposed line will run through is of great importance also for fruit farming. Thousands of fruit trees are now being planted, and they will form one of the largest plantations in South Africa. It will also mean a large income for the railways, the transport of all the fruit. Then it is an area where platinum is found. Platinum has been discovered, and it is very necessary that a railway should be built. We thus have to do there with copper mines, tin mines and platinum mines. There is no lack of water, as we have the Moss River and the Elands River. All we require is the railway. It will also help very much in settling the problems of poor whites and of unemployment. I would, therefore, very strongly urge upon the Government to favourably consider the building of this line, and to start the construction as soon as possible. The building thereof is of great importance to the line which runs from the Rand to nearby Pretoria. The population there is very dense, and if it is developed it will mean a great deal. There is marble, cotton, and I don’t know what more. It is too much to mention what the ground is suited for, and the railway connection between the rich mines of Bronkhorstspruit and Johannesburg to-day is made by a detour of 100 miles. This will be reduced to 37 miles if the proposed line is built. It will thus be of great importance for the public in getting its goods to the market, especially soft fruits, it is of great importance not to make a detour. I could say much more about this magnificent country, but there are many more amendments on the Order Paper, and so I propose my own.

I second the amendment of the hon. member for Pretoria (South) (Gen. Muller), and I can assure the House that if that part of the Transvaal is opened up it will carry a population which will consume all the moss confyt—and more—that the hon. member for Caledon (Mr. Krige) has spoken about. I can give the House the assurance that the hon. member for Pretoria (South) and, I who have tried in my weak manner to assist him, are not in the least able to bring to the comprehension of hon. members the riches of those areas. Over and above what the hon. member for Pretoria (South) has said, I can say that marble is to be found in comparison with which the famous marble of Carrara in Italy means nothing, and which is sufficient to render needless all the other arguments which have been advanced in favour of railways. I know, however, that it will not be necessary to break the heart of the Minister of Railways and Harbours. I hope that the arguments of the hon. member for Pretoria (South) will make an impression upon the temperament of our humanitarian Minister, and that he will not make us wait for the railway, because I can say this to him, that as a consequence of the circumstances caused by the drought and such visitation the railway is urgently required, and the Minister ought to start the work as soon as possible. The people are in great need. They are all anxious to get work, because it is the habit of the Pretoria people to go on trying to get work where they can. I do not think that it is necessary to say more to convince members that the railway is necessary. The Minister has a report signed by two experts. One was sent by the Minister of Agriculture from Potchefstroom and one by the Minister of Railways and Harbours from Pretoria, and their report is more favourable than any ever made upon a railway. If it is not convincing, then I do not know what will carry conviction. I, therefore, second the motion.

I move, as a further amendment—

I desire to ask the Government to consider the extension of the line which now ends at Ceres and a line to Sutherland. I recently signed a petition made by hundreds of people and handed over for consideration to the Railway Board in which the extension of the railway which now ends at Ceres was urged and they ask for the continuation to Calvinia. Personally I only ask for the immediate extension of the line ending at Ceres. Such a line will contribute very much to the development of the neighbourhood. The district of Ceres to-day exports fruit in boxes amounting to one-third of the export from the whole Union and that district has only five miles of railway. The hon. Minister will have learnt that so many wagons with fruit arrive at Ceres Station that the officials do not know how to deal with the tremendous traffic. Naturally we hear in the House to-day from many prophets. It is always dangerous to prophesy but I argue that the Minister of Railways and the Railway Board by this time should be convinced of the necessity of extending the line which at present ends at Ceres. There is every possibility of great advantage being derived from it not alone for the district but also for the railways themselves. The revenue will be increased and the line will help to increase the surplus which there already is to-day. Moreover the line will help in getting rates reduced and in employing more civilized labour on the railways. There is an urgent need in the district for this railway extension. As I have already said in 1924 about one-third of the boxes of fruit exported from the Union came from Ceres. It seems to me that Sutherland has always been the Cinderella of South Africa. The nearest railway station is 72 miles away from Sutherland and there are many portions of the district which are 100 miles from the nearest railway station. I do not wish to prophesy that the line will pay. Personally I think that the line to Sutherland has a good chance of justifying its existence but I only wish to urge this that the people who live in the outside corners of the country should not be forgotten. They have a very hard time farming without proper means of transport, and the people are entitled to be met. They are tax payers and when they have to pay taxes they are not asked whether they live 100 miles from the station. This is not all that I could say in favour of my amendment but there are 40 amendments on the paper and the Minister will be worried a great deal more. I am sorry that I must bother him, but my electors who are also tax payers, cannot permit that their requirements should not be brought to the notice of the Minister.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

What has struck me this afternoon is that the hon. members who have been pleading for railways have already got railways in their division but I am pleading for a part which is nearly as large as the Free State and there is only a small line, namely, that from Wintersrush to Kimberley which was intended to make things easier for the diggers. The ground is always getting smaller in the Free State and the Transvaal and the farmers are there going in for intensive grain production. But when we come to cattle and sheep farming then I say that the parts for which I am speaking here, Bechuanaland and along the borders of the Kalahari, have a great future. I want to give figures to show what progress has been made. Five years ago there were about 100,000 sheep and to-day there are about 600,000. We are fortunately getting free here from gallamziekte with the result that cattle farming is making great progress, because for that purpose it is the best part of South Africa. Then I must also say that it was pleasant that the Minister sent the Railway Board there so that the members could see for themselves what the possibilities of that large constituency are and how the people there are pioneers engaged in opening the country for us to the great benefit and advantage of South Africa. The reason why these persons have not yet had the opportunity of making the improvements they should is because they are far removed from the railway and the time has now come that those parts shall be provided with railway communication. Much has been said about gold, coal and diamonds, but I think that if there is a region which will yet surprise us it is this one. I do not wish to play the prophet, our last prophet went to gaol, yet I make the prophecy that we will still throw up our hands in surprise about the sources of help from those parts. Iron ore lies on the ground there and not under the ground as in Europe. It contains 79 per cent. iron. We shall require iron for many objects and works in the country. Then we have also the asbestos which will be of great importance to the country. The Rooi Berger are a mass of this from one end to the other, then we have our Kuruman where there is a stream of water which, as is known for the last 50 years, has given annually millions of gallons of water and fruit culture can most suitably be undertaken. There is further an opportunity for young men who do not see a chance of buying ground in other parts because it has become so dear to get a piece of ground there and to make a respectable living for their own advancement and for the welfare of the country. In as much as there is a long list of motions which have still to be considered and as the necessity of this line is so self evident and in as much as the Minister and the Railway Board are aware of the circumstances and the Railway Board have been there I will say no more but hand in my motion.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

I feel I have a claim on the Minister of Railways, in so far that I have had a promise from him in regard to the new Cape Central Railway. I wish to strengthen the Minister’s hands by asking for an extension of the railway from Protem to Swellendam, a distance of approximately 27 miles. The ground is practically level all the way, and the line would be inexpensive to construct, the cost being estimated not to exceed £100,000. If the railway were extended from Protem to Swollen dam it would force the New Cape Central Railway to come to terms with the Government. The railway would go through a most productive country, especially in regard to wheat, in fact there is no better ground for wheat growing than that between Protem and Swellendam. The new line would supply a direct route from Cape Town to Port Elizabeth via Caledon. The ground which would be traversed by the new line is at present only partially tilled and ploughed, but the production could be increased by 100 per cent. The line from Cape Town to Protem is one of the few branch line railways that show a very handsome profit, and the extension to Swellendam would also pay. We had a discussion last week in regard to Blackridge. We do not like the name Protem, and if the extension is built the name could be changed to Klipbanks Kloof, its original name.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

In connection with the line I propose from Pietersburg to Middelburg, I wish to say at once that it is not necessary, in fact, to introduce the motion before the House, but I do it to help other members who want railway lines which will not pay. That which I propose will pay for all. The line will show such a profit that the Minister will thereafter be able to proceed with the extension of railways. I only wish to say that the progress in the north has been so astonishing that one cannot help being surprised. The hon. Minister knows this. Where there was formerly one district there are now three, and hon. members know that at the Witwatersrand show—which surely is the largest in South Africa—the farmers of Pietersburg are requested to kindly stop competing. Every year we take the first prizes, and our exhibits at the show now go there only for exhibition, for others to see how far they are still from the ideal. If it is so, then one feels the absolute necessity for the railway line that I am proposing. This is not a question of an ordinary district railway, but this line entirely fits in the great railway system and the communication with Lourenco Marques. In connection with Rhodesia, communication will be made after Lourenco Marques. With these few words I will leave the matter to the Minister; he will certainly have the line built, because it is one of the most important, and subsequently will be able to go over to building the lines that are not so much required.

I second the amendment with pleasure. I heard to-day that the best proposal can be killed by talking about it too long. The better the cause, the shorter the pleadings, and so I will confine myself to supporting the amendment with all my heart.

I move, as a further amendment—

During this debate it has been said several times that the western portions of our country have been treated in a very step-motherly manner in the past. We do not wish to find fault with the representatives of the eastern and central portions, but we claim the same treatment that the other parts have had. We have the honour of representing a constituency the size of half of Natal and a surface area of about 17,000 square miles, and a population of about 50,000, both white and coloured, and in my district we only find the following railways. In the south-western part the line from De Aar to South-West Africa, then on the eastern boundary the railway via De Aar to Rhodesia, and then we have also the small branch line from Belmont to Douglas. This is actually the only railway service in the large district that I have the honour to represent to-day, and with its great population, I think we have the right to more concessions from the Minister of Railways and the Railway Board. All hon. members are landing their districts as much as possible this afternoon. We do not take it amiss, but we have also to consider matters on another basis, and railways must not always be regarded in the first place from the point of view of a paying business, but the development of the country must be kept in view. With the building of the railway, there must be faith in the future and confidence in the population, who will not let the State suffer damage but will do everything to develop the area. I only wish to mention a few more points. The western portions are less privileged than the others. There are often communities far from the railway; they are advanced posts of civilization, but in their difficulties we should also think of them. They also pay taxes, and they must contribute to meeting the expenditure of the country. To-day most of the traffic is undertaken by private companies, but these are not able to profitably deal with the removal of produce. The hon. member for Barkly West (Mr. W. B. de Villiers) has mentioned the importance of his division. I would also like to refer to iron ore at Postmasberg. We know that the Minister of Railways and Harbours has the approval of this House to have railway material constructed, and if he does so, then he will require iron ore. But if there is no railway communication, then the iron ore cannot be carried. We in the north-west have a great need of railway extension, and therefore I hope that the Minister will take into favourable consideration the building of this line.

I second the amendment, and hope the hon. Minister will give it his careful consideration.

I move, as a further amendment—

The Ministers of other Governments had the habit of telling the farmers in the country that they should take off their coats and produce more. The farmers have done this, but then they have the right to say to the Minister: We have produced, now help us to reach the market with our produce. It is a pleasure to me to hand in this amendment which I want to alter by inserting “a railway from Kendal to Hendrina,” etc. I do not ask the acceptance of this amendment on behalf of one district, but I speak on behalf of six districts which will be served by this line, namely, Bethal, Witbank, Middelburg, Ermelo, Carolina and Barberton. We have heard here this afternoon of rich granaries, but those portions between Kendal and Hendrina produce the largest quantities of mealies. The farmers there usually produce from one to ten thousand bags per annum. Hendrina lies equidistant from the following towns: Bethal, Witbank, Middelburg, Ermelo and Carolina. It is especially those people who have a hard time, because they are far from the railway which will be served by this line. Not only will the agricultural produce be carried, but there is a coal seam of about 90 miles in diameter which is first class, and which can be worked by such a railway. There is not only coal, but if we go further from Carolina to Barberton we get asbestos, and the best asbestos mines in South Africa is at Kaapse Hoop. They produce thousands of tons per month. At Slaai Hoek there are rich gold fields and those at Barberton have long been known, not only this, those are large cotton areas on the Komati and Buffels flats. The tobacco and citrus culture is developed on the De Kaap flats and on the Komati. None of the parts we have heard to-day can compare with these areas where we have so many agricultural products. But I do not only think of this. The strongest point is that we in the north-eastern part of the Transvaal have always felt that Delagoa Bay is our natural harbour and for this reason this railway is not only wanted, but it is necessary. Hon. members will understand that it is impossible for us to export our fruit if we must send it 14,000 miles to Cape Town, while Delagoa Bay lies at our door.

I have great pleasure in seconding the amendment. As hon. members will see, the hon. member for Barberton (Mr. Rood) has taken over my amendment, and I can therefore only second the amendment of the hon. member. The line from Hendrina to Carolina and from Carolina on to Barberton is highly necessary, also the branch line that I have proposed from Kendal Station to Hendrina. We badly need these lines. The country does not require to be helped forward, the produce is already there and the hon. Minister knows that we have very large mealie farmers. In the area of the proposed railway I know of a farmer who gets 100,000 bags of mealies and of another who gets 65,000 bags, and there are others with 30,000 and 40,000 bags, but it is impossible for them to use their oxen for the transport to the nearest station. A beginning must be made with the building of a railway in our district and, therefore, I hope that in this year a commencement will be made with building the line from Kendal to Hendrina, and subsequently the extention over Carolina to Barberton. As has been said by the hon. member for Barberton (Mr. Rood), it is very necessary. I could say a great deal more in favour of the amendment, but I want to give other members a chance and, therefore, I merely support the amendment heartily.

I move, as a further amendment—

The line mentioned in my amendment will run through one of the most important districts in the country, namely, Losberg. Losberg has been buoyed up for years past with promises of a railway but it has never yet come until Losberg became unmanageable and revolted at the recent election wanting to run back to its own stable, and Losberg now asks its true master to give it the portion that comes to it. The portion which belongs to Losberg is that line which will run through one of the best mealie and wool districts in the Union; which will run through parts which produce more than any other in the country. Here we have a district that has the best tobacco in the Transvaal and the farmers will go in more for creameries, etc., if the railway were only there to carry the products. It will run through a district which has a ridge of iron ore, namely, Gatsrand, which is known as the best in the Transvaal. The reef has already been worked but because it is a difficult matter to transport the ore to Vereeniging and Pretoria no progress has been made. If this line was opened there will at once be a great development in this direction. We have heard here of gold, diamonds and platinum but they are not the greatest assets that we have in the land. Iron, which can be used here in our factories, will be a great treasure for the land. The railway will run along two settlements, namely, Klipdrift and Vyfhoek. Klipdrift is now 20 miles from the railway. We talk so much of the people who work on such settlements and what can we do on settlements with people if they cannot go in for intensive agriculture there? For that proper transport is necessary. Then we have further the village of Fochville with its celebrated name which has given signs of progress and it will be still further encouraged by such a railway. The Minister has said that if a district comes and asks for a railway and it can be proved that it will pay then the line will be built. I hope he will keep his word and will be convinced that this line will pay. The railway department has established a motor service there. In the northern portion the motor service will not help us much at certain times of the year. The freight lorries will leave us in the lurch in the summer and will not be able to carry our products with the consequence that the people will not produce so much. It is a pity. It seems to us that the railways first send a freight lorry to a place as a test whether a railway there will pay. This is not a good test. The roads are too bad. The Minister has already said that we hear of paradises when railways are asked for. We have no paradise in Losberg but I do not believe that Losberg is behind those districts which have been mentioned here to-day. I have the honour to move my amendment.

It is not necessary to delay long with this amendment. Important points have been mentioned but I would like to make use of the opportunity to point out a few things which are also very important. This railway is not before the House for the first time. It was asked for by the late Gen. Botha 12 or 14 years ago and the reason why it has not yet been built is because the necessary monies have never been made available. But now that we appear to have prospects of a brighter future I hope the necessary money will also be found for the building of this railway. That was always the great difficulty against the building of the Losberg railway. We cannot expect that a railway through the wilderness will pay but this railway will pay interest. Reference has been made to the great mealie producers in the district but besides this we have many other agricultural things such as tobacco, fruit, potatoes, etc. The export of fruit can be of great value but there is great need of a railway in order to develop the export. Moreover we have in Losberg two of the most flourishing settlements. If we want to make a bigger success of them then we must get them into better communication with the market and it is not only agriculture that we have to do with. Vereeniging is called the future manufacturing town of South Africa and it is of great importance that there should be communication between Potchefstroom and Vereeniging because at Vereeniging there will one day be a great need of iron ore which then can come out of the Potchefstroom district. I second the amendment.

I move, as a further amendment—

In making this proposal for the line mentioned it is important to know that it embraces 80,000 morgen of the most fruitful alluvial and ground got by accretion which can be put under water. The nearest market of those who farm there is Cape Town and in view of the fact that ostrich farming is now actually on its last legs it is necessary that that bit of line shall be built to give the people the opportunity to take the hundreds of tons of lucerne to the market. Also fruit farming is being developed there because it is always said that the fruits of Calitzdorp are the nicest. It will bring portions of the south western districts into nearer communication with the mother city. Not alone that—the whole people are looking forward to the line because if it is built there will be a direct communication between east and west. The distance from Cape Town to Oudtshoorn over the New Cape Central Railways is 388 miles, over Protem it is 336 and via Ladysmith it is 316 miles. We thus find that it is 72 miles nearer than over the New Cape Central Railway and 20 miles nearer than via Protem, but I do not recommend the line only because the distance is shorter, there are other grounds. An unheard of drought exists by which the people are driven to beggary. The Minister has said that he will do everything to help the people, enough is not done and the Government will have to commence relief works to help the people. The people call for help to prove their position and the only means they have is of offering the work of their hands. When those links have been joined—and it is absolutely necessary—then the other links from Klipplaat and Kokstad can also be joined up and then we shall have direct communication between Durban and Cape Town including also Port Elizabeth to East London. Then it will no longer be necessary to plead for the small line via Protem. I know that it is not necessary to use the marble of the hon. member for Pretoria (North) (Mr. Cost) to soften the Minister’s heart because I know that he already has a soft place in his heart for us.

I am very pleased to second the amendment. The difference between our motion and that of other members of the House is that we do not ask the Minister to commence a new line but to complete what has already been started. It is only a link that is missing in the railway chain and which we ask should be completed. We know that the characteristic of the present Government and the Minister of Railways is not to go in for any half measures, and I hope that also in this, where the work has been commenced, he will keep his reputation high and make a start. We have heard much this afternoon of hon. members praising their districts as the best in the country, but the past has proved that the southwestern districts of the Cape Province are the best districts of South Africa. A slackening off has now come in the particular industry that we have always had there, and the industry has got into difficulties. Oudtshoorn is the middle point of the south-west, and therefore the motion is of the greatest importance to the particular industry which will again in the future become of very great value. I second the motion.

The hon. member for Cradock (Mr. G. C. van Heerden) has asked me to move the amendment standing in ins name. As regards the first section, a line from Tarkastad to Cradock, this line has already been surveyed, and, if carried out, will link up two important centres by rail. In regard to Cradock, it is only necessary to mention, that the Government has already spent something like £1,000,000 on the construction of irrigation works, and, given ample railway facilities, it is a district with a promising future. In regard to the suggested line from Middelburg to either Nelspoort, Biesjespoort or Hutchinson, this would considerably shorten the line from East London to Cape Town and would traverse an area which is a potential grain-producing country. On behalf of the hon. member, I move, as a further amendment—

seconded.

I have great pleasure in moving the motion standing in my name. I dealt with this matter so fully last year, and as the arguments I then brought forward have never been contraverted, I do not propose to repeat them this year. I will, therefore, content myself with moving this motion, more particularly as I see that the right hon. the member for Fort Beaufort (Sir Thomas Smartt) is now in his place, and, as the other end of the line will be in his constituency, I am sure he will give some convincing local information to the House on this important matter. I move, as a further amendment—

In seconding this amendment, I would just say that I am afraid that the character which this debate has been taking has been due to the fact that many members consider that it is their business to move railway extensions in their constituencies when they know very often that the lines that they refer to in their amendments have no justification, and should certainly not receive the consideration of the Minister of Railways and Harbours or the Railway Board, but the line that has been proposed by my hon. friend (Brig.-Gen. Byron) is one that I am perfectly certain does not fall within that category. This line was considered so important by the Cape House of Assembly that it formed portion of a Railway Bill approved of by the old Cape Parliament, and the necessary money was voted for its construction. It was then suggested that a line of railway should be built from Barkly Bridge to a point on the Port Alfred line in the vicinity of Round Hill as portion of a through line to East London through the district of Peddie. That was approved by the Cape House previous to Union, and money was voted for the building of a 2 foot line from Barkly Bridge to somewhere in the vicinity of Round Hill. If that policy, which was then approved by the old Cape Parliament, had been adopted years ago that district would have been developed, an a through line of railway would have been running from Barkly Bridge to the port of East London. But an extraordinary thing took place, one of the few extraordinary things that took place in the Cape Parliament. The Government of those days, depending, as the present Government does upon the unthinking and unqualified support of their majority, without the authority of Parliament built a 3 foot 6 inch gauge line from Barkly Bridge to Alexandria, instead of using the money for building a 2 foot railway from Barkly Bridge to Round Hill on the Port Alfred-Grahamstown line as portion of a through line to East London, and the money that was voted by Parliament for the purpose of building this 2 foot line of twice the distance was utilized by the then Government as a 3 foot 6 inch line to Alexandria. I want to bring to the notice of the Minister of Railways and Harbours the great injustice then done to those districts. Prophesied that the 3 foot 6 inch line went to Alexandria it would remain there for years. That was in 1906. During the 19 years which have since gone by, these unfortunate people have been waiting for the restitution of their rights which had been so sadly tampered with formerly, and, as my hon. friend knows, the coastal districts of that area have great potentialities for agricultural development. I would say to the Minister that if he is not prepared to go on with the Alexandria extension, as there may be difficulties in connection with the crossing of the Fish River, then a line that would link Peddie with Alice or Debe Nek with a small section running down the coast would bring into cultivation a very large area of country. It is years ago since East London shipped from the Peddie district 35,000 bags of wheat. Unfortunately, rust broke out in that district, but with the new developments that are taking place and with the experimental station which has been established at Bathhurst, and the experiments which have been carried out there, I hope that rust-resisting wheat will be found for that portion of the country and, if such rust-resisting wheat is found, there is no doubt that it will become a very large cereal producing area. My hon. friend the Minister was good enough to allow me to express by views to him in the Railway Board in connection with this and another little railway where a grave injustice has been done by stopping the Fort Beaufort railway at Balfour, instead of Seymour, and I hope now that the facts have been brought to the notice of my hon. friend—and if he requires any further substantiation of those facts, he will find it in the admirable speech given by the hon. member for East London (North) (Brig.-Gen. Byron) last year—he will find that this is one of the lines which does not make a debate of this sort a farce. If this line were agreed to it would be instrumental in opening up important agricultural resources of the Union, and helping an industrious section of the people.

I move, as a further amendment—

It is a very important line, but I will not speak at length about it. It is not a separate line, but one of the links of the line from East London to the Free State. Other pieces of the line have been proposed by other members, and this one is one of the necessary links in the chain. It is no good speaking much about it, but I just wish to bring to the Minister’s notice that he should see to it that the Railway Board institutes a careful inquiry. I know that the Railway Board has been very busy during the last year, but it must further take care that they do not race from one place to the other in motor cars, but go into matters in detail to see where railways could be built. They must inquire what the products of the neighbourhood are and if it will pay to build the line. We know of a little line which was built for us, and after it was built, so much was produced that special trains had to run to carry all the produce. Therefore I hope that the Minister will take into consideration the line I am proposing. I hope the villages which lie in the district will be considered with a view to their being connected as far as possible with the railway.

I wish to second the amendment of the hon. member for Wepener (Mr. Hugo), in which he proposes this new line which he has pleaded for so earnestly. I am convinced, as he has said, that it is the best railway which we can build, and in the circumstances it gives me pleasure to support the amendment.

I will spare the Minister a speech and merely move, as a further amendment—

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

I shall be short, because the line that I propose is short, and I believe it will not cost much, but it is very necessary, and that is why I propose it. The reasons why I do this is, in the first place, because it will go through a portion of the country which in the past has been deprived of many privileges, which is very fruitful and is one of the districts that produces much maize. The second reason is because it is almost cut off by the formation of the ground from all the railways existing there, such as that of Kokstad. On the one side there is the blue granite strata, where one cannot get through, and on the other side there are the hills, which one cannot pass either. In the middle between the two the ground which produces much grain is situated, and I believe if those portions get a railway, which will be very short, it will soon pay. It is for this reason that I take the liberty of making this proposal, and I hope that the Minister will see his way open to get it for us. The third reason is because the roads there are so impossible, and the farmers are unable to transport their mealies with ox wagons in the time when they have to plough. They must carry the produce 20 miles, and it costs them at least a shilling a bag to take the mealies from the farms to the station. If the farmer reaps five or six thousand bags of mealies, then it will cost him a great deal to get the mealies to the station. There are also cattle farmers, and they have not the conveniences to get the milk and the cream carried. Because there are so many motions, I will not take up the time of the House any further.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

I will not detain the House. The hon. Minister is well aware of the facts regarding this railway. The survey took place long ago, and it is therefore not necessary for me to go into the matter any further. I merely propose the amendment.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

The hon. member for Fort Beaufort (Sir Thomas Smartt) is in favour of more railway extensions in the Eastern Province but the Eastern Province is already full of railway lines. What of the north-west? A member has complained that he has to pay 1s. to have a bag of wheat taken to the nearest station. But what must I say then who pays 12s. 6d. per bag for that service? It has always seemed as if the northwest is just a forsaken portion of the country. Only the present Government has turned its attention to that part of the country but the previous Governments never did this. We now at any rate are getting a line from Klaver to Kokenaap. This is however the extension of a branch line from the Malmesbury line. The line has been built in small sections as a branch line. First from Kraaifontein to Malmesbury and so on but the line ought never to have been built as a branch line, it ought to have been a main line then it would have been one of the most profitable in the country. To-day as a branch line it is the most profitable notwithstanding that it is only credited with 10 per cent. of the traffic to the main line. In Namaqualand we have the best wheat country but just as much wheat can be produced as we wish if only the necessary railway development comes about. We have there a better wheat country than any other place in the land. The shortage of wheat can be made up by Namaqualand if we only get a railway. To-day not so much wheat is produced because the transport to the nearest station makes it impossible. Transport is too dear. That is why I so strongly urge the building of this line. The line must be built into the middle of the wheat country. While I am on my feet I must make a complaint against the department. If the department sends out people to investigate who knows absolutely nothing about farming and who only go along the postal road then a railway will never be built. They must go into the country and make a thorough enquiry and then they will make different recommendations.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

I have the privilege on this occasion of representing the views of men of two or three provinces and parties in this House. What we want is not simply a line to develop the Native Territory, but also to secure the extension of the main line from Natal to the Cape Province. We are all agreed that this is the proper direction and there are no engineering difficulties worth speaking of.

I have much pleasure in seconding the proposal of the hon. member. Now that he has amended his proposal in the manner indicated by him I shall withdraw my amendment. The motion as now made is in consequence of a compromise which has been come to about the root of the line which will connect the Cape with Natal. There is the lower line from Umtata to Kokstad and there is the upper line from Maclear to Matatiele. I proposed the latter line last year and then a line was also proposed from Umtata to Kokstad. It is of course unreasonable to expect that the Government will build both lines. We then came together and arrived at an agreement on the lines contained in the motion introduced by the hon. member for East London (Central) (the Rev. Mr. Rider). The Railway Board recently visited the north-eastern portion of the Cape Province. We feel that these portions have in the past been treated in a fairly stepmotherly manner so far as railways are concerned and we think that we can with the greater assurance come to the House for favourable consideration of the building of the railway which will furnish connection between the Cape and Natal. In the old days when the republics still existed the understanding always existed between the Cape and Natal that a direct railway line would be built. With that object in view the two lines were built which exist to-day. The object was to extend the lines in the direction of Natal. The Railway Board could never have intended in building those lines that they would simply end there. The object was always to have direct communication between the Cape and Natal. This motion is intended to carry out that scheme. The motion is as I have ah ready said the consequence of a compromise. I do not wish to indicate hereby that I have rejected my proposal of last year, but it will in the circumstances be better to get a line from Maclear to Hope Monument and also from Umtata to Hope Monument and then beyond to go on by one line to Natal and then no line or only a direct line from Umtata to Kokstad. The line asked for differs from the other lines pleaded here to-day in that this is not a local line. It is more a national line. Also from a strategic point of view it is of very great importance.

I presume that the discussion is not confined to the proposers and seconders of these resolutions. I suppose the Minister is going to accept all these lines?

With reservations.

One wants to know what the reservations are. If the Minister intends to accept these resolutions South Africa is going to be pretty well equipped. I have risen to advance the claims of the line advocated by the hon. member for Pretoria (South) (Gen. Muller). It is just a circumstance that this proposed line is somewhere in my own constituency. If there is one line of outstanding merit this one seems to stand out from the rest, namely, a line from Benoni via Bronkhorstspruit to the Olifants River. It is a line the claims for which have been pressed year after year for a considerable period, because it is admitted by all those who know it to be a line pre-eminently suited to open up a vast tract of country, rich in minerals and in agricultural possibilities. The object is to connect the districts which such a line would serve with their only portal to a market, namely, Benoni, so I take this liberty of urging the consideration of this line, whatever the Minister may be disposed to do in regard to others.

I move, a further amendment—

The line which I propose will form a connection between the western portions of the Karroo and the Eastern Province. I thought that only the line I am proposing was of national importance, I understand now that the line recommended by the hon. member for Wodehouse (Mr. Vermooten) has this qualification. Well, similarly to that line, this line which I propose differs from the other proposed lines in this respect, that it is not only a mere local branch line, but that it, will form a connection between two great railway systems, namely, the western and the midland systems. If hon. members look at the railway map they will see that over the whole distance from Cape Town to De Aar, 500 miles, there is no connection, with the exception of the private line of the N.C.C.R., between the western and the midland system. The consequence is that the traffic between these parts of the country is limited and hindered. The passenger from Cape Town to Port Elizabeth must either use the N.C.C.R., or go by boat along the coast, because the route via De Aar is too circuitous. Most people are compelled to take the boat, the round about way hinders trade. Port Elizabeth is to-day undoubtedly the wool market of the Cape. The gentlemen of Cape Town will, perhaps, not like this, but it is anyhow a fact. Port Elizabeth is the wool market. The Karroo and the north-west are very good wool districts. The farmers are compelled to send their wool via De Aar if they wish to use the wool market at Port Elizabeth. The people very much want to sell at Port Elizabeth, but the rail mileage is too great. As I have already said, the line I propose is not an ordinary local line, it ought to have been built years ago, but in consequence of the conflict that we have had for years between the eastern and western provinces, nothing has ever come of the building of the line. The importance of the line is, however, not confined to the junction between east and west; the railway will also be of local importance, and will get much local freight as it is proposed to build the line through the district of Prince Albert. That is a rich district. Prince Albert will furnish lots of local traffic. The line will be from 88 to 100 miles long, and the construction will not cost much on account of the nature of the ground on which the line will be laid. Prince Albert is a rich district, because grain is grown there. A great deal of fruit is dried and tobacco is planted. Then there are lucerne and wool. If the Railway Board will visit the district it will see that there is lots of room for development. The line, as a local line, will produce sufficient profit, but it is in addition a national line which will connect two great railway systems and as such the line will be a great benefit.

I rise to second this amendment, but after the very eloquent speech the hon. member who has just moved it (Mr. E. H. Louw), it is necessary for me to add anything to what he has said.

I move, as a further amendment—

I don’t want to say much. The line speaks for itself and very probably it will be on the programme of new lines to be built this year. I have taken upon myself to second this amendment, and I certainly hope that the line will be built. I only want to say a few words about another line which has been proposed by the hon. member for East London City) (the Rev. Mr. Rider). The hon. member for Wodehouse (Mr. Vermooten) seconded the motion, and he said that an agreement had been arrived at to amalgamate his motion with hon. member for East London (City) (the Rev. Mr. Rider). I only wish to tell the hon. Minister that such an agreement has not been arrived at, and that the population do not approve of the agreement. The line from Maclear to Matatiele is of very great importance. It is a line which goes through a district inhabited by whites, while the line from Umtata to Kokstad will only be used by natives I only say this so that the Minister should not be under a misapprehension. I second the amendment.

I move, as a further amendment—

I shall be short. The proposal standing in my name is a twofold one. The one part deals with a line to the east of my district, and that is an agricultural line. The other is a proposal for a line to the west, and is more particularly meant to develop the mineral riches there The agricultural line is the same as that brought by me to the notice of the Minister last year, and I understand the Railway Board and the Minister have already given their attention to a portion of this line, which was in the first instance constructed by a private company. The line, according to my information, is being Put in order at the moment with the intention that it shall be taken over by the railway administration, and then a small line of about 11 miles which will not cost more than about £12,000, will be added. It is a humble request from the inhabitants of Schoemans Kloof, and I hope that the Minister will grant it. The second portion of my motion embraces the extension of the line which is intended to develop the mineral wealth, especially platinum and chrome. The line authorized and built in 1922 has been in use nearly a year; it is that from Lydenburg to Olifantspoortje. It has always been regarded as an agricultural line, that is to say, a line to develop agriculture in that part, but after the line was opened for use if appeared that it would be more used for the development of the mineral wealth than for the development of agriculture itself. I mention two minerals, namely, platinum and iron. About platinum I need hardly say anything; the papers are full of it. Since I left the district to come to Cape Town I have read in the newspapers reports of further discoveries. But it is not that the line should be extended in the first instance for the carriage of platinum. That can be transported fairly easily, but owing to the industry there will naturally be a large population, and for that purpose railway communication is necessary. Regarding the condition of the chrome mines, it is indeed by accident—and it is a happy chance—that the platinum finds have been discovered in the same area where the chrome-iron is, and the railway line which is here proposed will be of equal use to both, therefore I propose that the line Lydenburg-Olifantspoortje shall be extended via the farms De Spitskop and Eerste Geluk to the farm Mooi Hoek to develop the platinum and chrome-bearing ground. But when a careful investigation is made—and I do not doubt this will be done by the Railway Board—then possibly another route may be proposed which will better serve the whole area. It is even more necessary to build a railway for the chrome than for the platinum field. Up to the present the development of the chrome industry has been retarded by the high cost of transport. The condition of the roads is very bad, and in the summer, especially, it is very difficult to carry 1,000 tons per month over the bad roads, and in the winter there is a shortage of grass for the thousands of oxen that are necessary to carry the chrome iron to the station. I will only say, in conclusion, how the building of this line will assist the solution of the problem of unemployment. Much work will be obtained if these lands are developed. I hope that this proposed line will be further investigated, and I hope that it will then appear on the next railway programme.

I have the greatest satisfaction in seconding the amendment of the hon. member for Lydenburg (Mr. Nieuwenhuize). We have heard the whole afternoon about railway construction, but if anything is necessary, then it is this line. We all know about the great discoveries that have taken place in those parts, and I have the greatest expectations from them. I do not wish to detain the House, but I do want to bring to the notice of the Minister the urgent necessity of this line, because otherwise it might possibly happen that the Minister will hereafter have to do again what we recently heard of; the need was so great that he had to build a line illegally without the approval of Parliament. It appears to me that we are on the eve of just as great a development as when the discovery of gold on the Witwatersrand was made. The reports appearing in the newspapers may be exaggerated, but already 40 companies have been floated, and I am certain that great developments will take place. The hon. member has made so clear the other lines mentioned in his motion that I need only second them heartily. The construction of those lines will not alone assist Lydenburg, but will help the whole country, because those mines can give our country a great push ahead. We must not permit a lack of railways to prevent and baulk development. The people who have floated the companies have put their money into them and have really meant to push the country ahead.

I move, as a further amendment—

The Minister of Railways and Harbours, the Railway Board and the great majority in the House know that this is the best line that any Minister could build in the country. I leave the matter with the fullest confidence in the hands of the Minister and the Railway Board.

I have great pleasure in seconding the motion of my hon. friend the member for Ficksburg (Mr. Keyter), and I entirely endorse what he said. Ficksburg and Senekal should most certainly be connected.

I move, as a further amendment—

I do not wish to say anything further, but to move my amendment, hoping the Minister will give it consideration.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

May I point out that the name is wrongly spelt in the Order Paper in that “tam” is rendered “ten”? This section of the south-coast of Natal has a greater length of safe bathing beaches than any other portion of the Natal south-coast, and it is being developed even under the adverse circumstances at present existing. There are four small settlements started there, and there are also a large number of small settler farmers, but that part of the country is capable of very much more development.

When I see a really first-class optimist I like to give him a hand, and I therefore, have much pleasure in seconding the amendment of the hon. member for Natal Coast (Brig.-Gen. Arnott).

I move, as a further amendment—

Before discussing briefly my amendment I just want to say that I heartly support the amendment of the hon. member for Wepener (Mr. Hugo). But I want to strongly urge that the interests of the village of Ladybrand must be taken into consideration. It will be very interesting if I were to tell hon. members what foreign travellers say about Ladybrand. I read in an English newspaper—

The village of Ladybrand besides its highly productive environs is quickly becoming a part where you can go for a rest and I can also recommend hon. members who will be tired after this session to go there for a rest. I hope that the hon. Minister will see that the said line will join up at Ladybrand. Now I come to my own amendment. I will only say that after the extension to Marquard the conclusion to which a person must come is that the line should be prolonged via Excelsior to a point on the line to Bloemfontein-Modderpoort. The hon. member to Hoopstad (Mr. Conroy) has spoken about the Canaan of South Africa. If his deserves that name then the district that I represent is certainly the lost paradise. There you have a great grain area but an area which is unfortunately very badly off for roads and railways. The roads are bad because they are washed away by the torrential rains. I have just received a letter from someone who asks what they must now do with their mealies. The roads have been washed away and the nearest railway station is 30 or 40 miles distant with a mountainous road between. I hope the hon. Minister will soon give us the line.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

This line is of so great importance that I need not enlarge upon it. I only wish to bring it to the notice of the Minister and ask him to consider it. I know that he has such a clear insight into railway matters that he will see at once that the line is necessary and worthy of approval.

I wish to second this amendment of the hon. member for Heidelberg (Mr. de Wet) but not in the usual formal way in which it is done, because I think the amendment is one that deserves the most serious attention of the Minister. This area is one which has been referred to as having a gold content of something like £1,000,000,000. That is another way of saying that this is an area which is going to be one of the greatest assets to the State, and it is unthinkable that the Government should contemplate the development of that area without providing a railway so as to cheapen the cost of transport of machinery, coal and other necessaries. In addition, this line would mean a very substantial economy to the railways in eliminating the two long sides of the existing triangle and substituting a short base line. The present congestion at Germiston involves great difficulty in the handling of traffic and the construction of the proposed line from the Far East Rand to Heidelberg and thereafter to Vereeniging would bring the port of Natal within easier reach of the Far East Rand and considerably cheapen the cost of the transport of materials and facilitate the development of that area.

I move, as a further amendment—

The amendment I propose is for a line between Zeerust and Lichtenburg, and it goes through parts of our country that are very fruitful. Members have said to-day that the lines pleaded for by them serve the most fruitful parts of South Africa, and some have gone so far as to say that the areas are the most fruitful in the world. I shall be glad if they would become better informed about our country. There is certainly no part that is more fruitful than Klein Marico. We have a proof of this in the action of the Voortrekkers, who travelled over the whole land and there made their first settlement. But Klein Marico has always been neglected in railway matters. The railway that I propose is about 50 miles long, and the first 20 miles run through the famous mealie country where approximately a quarter of a million bags are reaped in a year. Moreover, in the valley we have the greatest slate mines in the country which cannot be used because there is no means of transport. Then we also have lead, mercury and vanadium. This railway will also connect the high veld and the bush veld, which is very necessary to the farmers requiring winter veld for their cattle. Klein Marico is one of the districts which exports many oranges, and these oranges have to be carried 25 miles to the railway, with the consequence that they do not arrive on the European markets in good condition. When a district has attained to such a pitch of progress and prosperity without the Government providing transport, then it deserves the consideration of the Government, and I have the fullest confidence that the Minister will give his attention to the matter. If he does so he will very soon be convinced that the line is necessary and that it is one of the first lines that deserves consideration by the Government. Members are interrupting me, but I am certain that if they will only make use of their free passes and come and look at those parts they will buy farms and come and live there.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

This is a different form to my notice of motion. According to that I was to ask for a railway commencing at Porterville Road. Since I have put my notice on the paper I have ascertained that a definitive agreement has been come to between the Portervillers and the inhabitants of the two Riebeeks that the railway can commence at Hermon. This has happened for the sake of co-operation and security. As I have for eight successive years asked for a railway to Porterville, I need not again elaborate the advantages. I am to-day in the happy position of not having to appeal to the sympathetic heart of the Minister as the hon. member for Ladybrand (Mr. Swart) has done. I base my appeal on the legal duty of the Minister, because the constitution expressly provides that railways must be built on business principles. According to all the reports the proposed railway would be a financial success.

I have promised to second the amendment, so my motion falls away. I only wish to support the proposal of the hon. member for Piquetberg (Mr. de Waal). We know that the hon. member has introduced this motion for some years. I think the hon. Minister is convinced that the population of Riebeek as well as of Porterville can claim a railway line, and I think the Minister also is convinced that it will be a paying line. I only wish to say that we have two kinds of railways in our country. The one is a line for development and the other is a line through ground which has already been developed. As regards this railway, I do not think that there are elsewhere such close settlements as in the neighbourhood of Riebeek Kasteel and Riebeek West. They have there reached a high standard of development, and the Government must now assist them with a railway line. I know that the attention of the Minister and the Railway Board has already been called to this area, and if they will investigate the matter more closely they will find that a railway will certainly pay there.

I move, as a further amendment—

I have the highest expectations from all the railways that have been proposed. They run through such rich ground and the farmers will work so hard that they will become very tired. I wish to propose a little line to give them the opportunity to come for a rest. It is only a line of 3¾ miles to Gordon’s Bay. The farmers who are so tired can then come and get easily to the coast for a change. It is one of the healthiest places, and at the moment there is a good high road, but it is a great disadvantage, especially to sick people to complete the last portion of their voyage by motor. The Minister knows these parts, and I hope he will have the line built. He will require it for the farmers who come to rest, and for the people who will have to build all the other lines.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

My motion comes a bit late, but I hope that the hon. Minister will see to it that this will be a case of “many that are last will be first.” I do not know whether the Minister has ever experienced the aroma of nice roast ribs when he is very hungry; if he has ever experienced that such ribs are put before him and he cannot have a single mouthful of them—so it has been with the people at Winburg. The line was approved by the Free State Government and the money voted for it. The work had been commenced and the earthworks were finished. Then came the war, and after much money had been put into it, the work was abandoned and Winburg to-day still suffers from a grievance. The money was voted for it and yet they have never had the railway. The Railway Board has been there. We had the honour of the first visit from them since the new Government came into power, but I fear that so many come to them that we must take another means of getting our railway. Perhaps the hon. Minister will now remove the old grievance. The line can be built very cheaply in consequence of the work which has already been done previously. Further, the line will certainly pay. Winburg is one of the most progressive districts, and the construction, as I have already said, will be very cheap. That is why I hope that the Minister of Railways will accede to our request.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

I think that there is nothing better in the way of an advertisement to the country than the discussion in the House when the railway proposals are considered. We even hear that portions of Hoopstad are compared to Canaan. The little line which I here propose is a railway that was already surveyed by the old Free State Government. When I say that this proposed line is situated in Heilbron then it is surely enough to influence the Government to also approve of it. It is the principal maize producing district in the Free State. It is a fruitful part, and a considerable quantity of wool is also produced. That is not all. Prospecting is going on at the moment at Oranjeville, and a large mine may be opened in that part. For this reason I propose the amendment, and I hope that the Minister will give his earnest attention thereto.

It gives me pleasure to support a line in that part of the Union. I do not only rise to get this line adopted, but to say that when the Minister has granted it, he can give his attention to the less important little lines that have been proposed here. It is not necessary to advocate the line, because who has not heard of Oranjeville? The value and necessity of this line is so generally known that I need not go more fully into the matter. I second the amendment.

I move, as a further amendment—

This is a short, cheap, little line, and yet the most important of all. It will connect the eastern portion of the Cape Province with the western portion and vice versa. A link of 46 miles is now missing to have a direct line from the western portion to Port Elizabeth. If the line is built, the export of fruit will be greatly advanced. The hon. Minister of Railways knows what the conditions are. His own constituency is in the neighbourhood.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

I want to propose the amendment on behalf of the hon. member. I have been accused on good authority that the previous Government had so much appreciated the necessity of some of these lines that it had had them surveyed.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

The lines were surveyed under the old Natal regime and they would traverse districts which are already most productive, and will develop still further. They only await railway construction to reach the pinnacle of production which they are able to attain. The lines indicated would serve to connect two branch railways that enjoy the distinction of being among the few branch lines that pay. The matter has been well represented to the Railway Board on various occasions, and the lines can be wholeheartedly commended to the favourable consideration of the House.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

In urging the construction of this line I would like to point out that there are two natural gates to the trade of the Transkei. One is through Amabele to Umtata, and this line has already been constructed, and is one of the paying branch lines. The other is the one I am now advocating, from Imvani to St. Mark’s, to be extended later on. This line will serve approximately 300,000 natives, and should help to develop the country greatly. The Minister has stated that he intends employing only white and coloured labour on railway construction outside of native areas, but that he will employ natives in native areas. Well, we know that the Government will soon be called upon to provide some form of relief work for the natives of Kingwilliamstown and the Cits Kei generally, and if the construction of this railway is undertaken, work will be provided for these unfortunate people and the many others who are being dismissed from the railway service, and this is a factor that deserves serious consideration. Moreover, the farmers are clamouring for labour, and this line will open up one of our greatest labour reservoirs. I therefore trust that it will receive very careful and sympathetic consideration.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

The line, as hon. members know, is in no need of support by argument. The Railway Board visited the district a little while ago, and if the members of the board possess the qualities we all credit them with, I have every hope that this line will be put through in the very near future.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

Let me say first that I heartily support the motion of the hon. member for Stellenbosch (Mr. J. P. Louw). I introduced the motion last year. So far as my own proposal is concerned, we tried in 1922 to get a line for the people there. They have large plantations of trees, and for the last 21 years they have been waiting for a railway. The promise was made by the Government in the past, but they are still waiting for the line. They did not succeed in 1922 either. They then wanted a line from Breyten to Lothair. I will not say any more about the matter, but bring to the notice of the Minister that there are also large Government plantations, and that the line is of the greatest importance, because the Government cannot bring the trees in those plantations to market. It is the same with the public, there are large plantations of trees, but no means of transport to get the trees to the market.

In seconding, I should like to make the observation that this particular line is different from all the other lines, and particularly the lines which have been mentioned by members on the right (S.A.P.). These are not economic lines; they are mere political railways, particularly the line supported by the hon. member for Fort Beaufort (Sir Thomas Smartt) which, like so many others, is mainly for the convenience of easily conveying native voters to the polls. This is an entirely different proposition. I am delighted with the indication that this country now moves fairly rapidly, because I remember when farmers (I believe it was in the Cradock district) threatened to tear up the railway that was proposed in their district; but now every farmer wants a line not only to his back door, but to his front door as well. I commend to the Minister, in dealing with these various applications, the saying of a French statesman in reply to a lady—

I move, as a further amendment—

I am pleased indeed to move this motion, and I realize that the Minister of Railways and Harbours and the Board will pay attention not only to this line, but to all the lines which have been moved; considering that in this country, where there are no waterways, the country will have to be developed from end to end by means of railways.

seconded.

This debate has been remarkable in two respects. The first was that we have here had various speeches from people who usually do not speak Afrikaans in the House and it is a sign which we welcome. The second is that the motions which have been introduced have been seconded from all parts of the House and this is a clear proof that our railway affairs are non-political, and that hon. members understand that when we have to do with railway extension it is a question that is outside politics. I am glad that members approached the matter in this way and I want to say that this is also the spirit in which the present railway administration tries to proceed, namely, to give effect to the spirit and letter of the constitution, that so far as possible no political influence shall be used in connection with our railways, as far as it is possible under a party Government system. It will be interesting for members to have a few figures about railway extension since the commencement of the Union. Since Union 2,452 miles have been built which have cost more or less £10,000,000. Hon. members will now think of the periods of the world war and the disorganization that it caused but the fact remains that it has taken us 16 years to build those railways and the proposals which have been made to-day amount to 3,503, miles which will cost about £15.062,000. This does not even include the railways which in the last few months have been submitted to the Minister and which are not included in these motions. This shows that the necessity of railway extension is felt in the whole country and the necessity is very great. With a view to the fact that the Government announced in the speech of H.E. the Governor-General that the Government intended during this session to introduce a programme of railway extension the Government have not the slightest objection to accept the motion because it asks nothing more than sympathy and that hon. members will always get from the administration where it is a question of extending the railway system. I would like to refer to a few points that have been made. Although the discussions this afternoon have been of great value, hon. members will understand that railways are not built upon the arguments that have been advanced here. Hon. members are naturally acquainted with the system upon which new lines are built. Only after a careful enquiry made by officials of the railways and officials of the Agricultural Department who go from farm to farm and investigate the production of the districts only the reports are considered by the Railway Board which then takes a decision about the extension. In our capacity as administration and as the Railway Board we must be guided by the returns and the reports of the officials of the administration and of the Agricultural Department. In this connection I speak, I am sure on behalf of all members of the House and when I say that the work that the members of the Railway Board have done recently in connection with the investigation of new railways is much appreciated and I give them the tribute of the House for the zeal they have shown. Every separate request for a line the members of the board have personally enquired into. As they are no longer young people—neither are they old—they deserve thanks for the close application to duty shown by them. We have heard about the carriage by motors as done by the administration and apparently a wrong impression prevails in that connection. The idea is that if the administration introduces a light motor service into a district then it means that the district will get no railway line. That is entirely wrong. The institution of the motor service is meant to help the farmers in the transport of their light produce to the nearest market and in this way to develop the district. If the district develops by this means and if the traffic increases as a consequence thereof then it is the first step the district shows that it is right for a railway. The fear to which some members have given expression that the institution of such a service would take away the chance of a railway is entirely unfounded. The service is only instituted to bring the farmers into communication with the markets. If the administration succeeds by the motor service in bringing a district to great development then it is the first guarantee of a line. Then it has been asked that the administration will also take upon it the heavy motor traffic, and that motors will be made available for the transport of mealies, inter alia. This we cannot undertake. It would mean that we should have to buy many more motors and to employ a large number of new officials and we are not prepared to do so. We cannot undertake the heavy motor traffic until such time as the roads are better, until such time as the traffic is better regulated, and until such time as Parliament empowers the administration to take in hand along with the railways the harbours, the steam ships and the light motor traffic, also the heavy motor traffic, we cannot undertake it. The administration is not prepared to do so to-day. The motor service is limited to-day to light traffic. It is a pleasure to me on behalf of the Government to accept the motion and amendments and I can give hon. members the assurance that the Railway Board is busy with a railway programme which I hope to introduce in the course of this session.

Amendments put and agreed to.

Motion, as amended, put and agreed to, viz.—