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House of Assembly: Vol28 - FRIDAY 6 FEBRUARY 1970

FRIDAY, 6TH FEBRUARY, 1970 Prayers— 2.20 p.m. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE *The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

Mr. Speaker, with your leave I should like to inform the House what business will be dealt with by the House next week. The Railways Part Appropriation, the Post Office Part Appropriation and the Railways Additional Appropriation will be dealt with and disposed of next week. Then priority will be given to Notice pf Motion No. 4, by the Deputy Minister of Bantu Administration and Education, in connection with the Bantu Laws Amendment Bill. In addition, priority will also be given to Order of the Day No. 4, i.e. the second reading of the Bantu Homelands Citizenship Bill. In between, the Industrial Conciliation Amendment Bill and the Workmen’s Compensation Amendment Bill will be dealt with. If there is an opportunity, the other Orders of the Day will also be dealt with.

TEMPORARY AMENDMENT OF STANDING ORDERS The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

Mr. Speaker, I move, as an unopposed motion—

That notwithstanding any provision in any Standing Order contained, the proceedings on all Additional Estimates of Expenditure for the present Session, shall be as follows:

(1) Additional Appropriation Bills shall be introduced by motion after notice;
(2) during discussion on the various stages of such Bills, members shall confine themselves to the reasons for the increased expenditure under the various votes or heads;
(3) all estimates of Additional Expenditure laid upon the Table shall stand referred to the Committees of the whole House on the respective Bills; and
(4) in Committee of the whole House—
1. (a) the schedules of the Bills shall be considered before the clauses; and
2. (b) no member, except the Minister in charge of a vote or head, shall address the Committee more than three times on any vote or head nor speak for longer than 10 minutes at a time.

This is simply the same procedure as was followed last session.

Motion put and agreed to.

QUESTIONS

For oral reply:

Legislation Regarding Loitering in Vicinity of Prisons *1. Mrs. H. SUZMAN

asked the Minister of Prisons:

Whether he intends to introduce legislation to amend section 44 of the Prisons Act. The MINISTER OF PRISONS:

No.

Costs Incurred i.c.w. Case of State versus South African Associated Newspapers, Gandar and Pogrund *2. Mrs. H. SUZMAN

asked the Minister of Justice:

What were the total costs incurred by the State in connection with the case of State versus South African Associated Newspapers, Gandar and Pogrund. The MINISTER OF JUSTICE:

No costs were incurred. The normal facilities and officials provided for the adjudication of criminal cases were used.

Electro-therapy Machines at Cinderella Prison *3. Mrs. H. SUZMAN

asked the Minister of Prisons:

Whether in view of the court’s findings in the case of State versus South African Associated Newspapers, Gandar and Pogrund on the use of electro-therapy machines at Cinderella Prison, any steps have been taken in regard to the use of these machines in prisons; if so, what steps; if not, why not. The MINISTER OF PRISONS: No, the machines had been withdrawn prior to the court’s findings. Development of Bantu Homelands, 1968-’69 *4. Mr. L, F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Bantu Administration and Development:

What was the total amount spent on the development of Bantu homelands during (he financial year 1968-’69. The MINISTER OF BANTU ADMINISTRATION AND DEVELOPMENT: R61,114,766 which includes the physical development of the Bantu homelands and the provision of the share capital of the Bantu Investment Corporation, the Xhosa Development Corporation and the Bantu Mining Corporation. Report of Committee into Use of Insecticides and Other Poisons *5. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Health:

(1) Whether the report of the committee appointed to investigate the use of insecticides and other poisons will be printed;
(2) what has been the total cost of the committee;
(3) whether it is intended to introduce legislation to implement the recommendations contained in the report of the committee; if so, when.

The MINISTER OF HEALTH:

(1) The question of the printing of the report is still under consideration.
(2) R29,016.80.
(3) The recommendations of the committee entail no amendment to existing legislation, but merely embrace amendments of the regulations concerned and the taking of certain administrative measures.

Representations Received from Indian Council *6. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Indian Affairs:

Whether he has received representations from the Indian Council; if so, (a) what representations and (b) which representations (i) have been favourably received and will be implemented, (ii) have been rejected and (iii) are pending. The MINISTER OF INDIAN AFFAIRS:

Yes.

(a) Since its inception on 1st September, 1968, the South African Indian Council has made the following representations to me.
1. (1) That deputations of the Council interview various Ministers on matters affecting the Indian community.
2. (2) That the Minister of Post and Telegraphs be requested to provide facilities for the training of Indian telephone technicians.
3. (3) That the Minister of Community Development be advised of the need for public amenities in Indian areas and that loans and grants be made available to local authorities for this purpose.
4. (4) That the Minister of Planning be requested to make available areas in the Tugela Basin and in the Richards Bay/ Empangeni complex for development by Indians.
5. (5) That the Minister of Planning be requested to relax restrictions under the Group Areas Act on the erection of buildings in the Grey Street area in Durban.
6. (6) That the Minister of Bantu Administration and Development be requested to lift the restrictions he placed on the employment of Bantu domestic servants in Indian Group Areas.
7. (7) That the Minister of Planning be requested to make provision for alternative agricultural land to substitute land lost through urbanization, the establishment of industries or through its acquisition by the South African Bantu Trust.
8. (8) That in order to meet the shortage of Indian dentists, the Minister of Health be requested to investigate the possibility of recognizing the qualifications in dentistry obtained by South African Indians in Pakistan and India.
9. (9) That the Minister of Planning be requested to receive a deputation of the Council to discuss the proclamation of group areas in the Grey Street area in Durban with him after he had received and studied the report and recommendations of the Group Areas Board.
10. (10) That the Government’s policy regarding the admission of brides and /or fiancees for members of certain minority groups within the Indian community be reviewed.
(b)
1. (i) 1, 2 and 4 (but in respect of the Tugela Basin);
2. (ii) 4 (in respect of the Richards Bay/ Empangeni complex) and 8;
3. (iii) 3, 5, 6, 7, 9 and 10.

Planning of District Six *7. Mr. H. M. TIMONEY

asked the Minister of Community Development:

Whether the planning of District Six, Cape Town, has been completed; if not. when will it be completed; if so, when will the plan be available for public inspection. The MINISTER OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT:

No, but it is trusted that the detailed replanning proposals by the team of town-planners mentioned in my reply to the question by the hon. member on 11th February, 1969, will be finally considered by the Committee for the Rehabilitation of Depressed Areas and my Department during the course of this year. After the plan has been submitted to me, the proposals will, in terms of the relative Ordinance, be forwarded in the normal manner via the City Council to the Townships Board for approval. The plans will then be open to public inspection as in the case of a normal application for township establishment.

Conveyance of Mineral Ore from Northern Cape to Saldanha Bay *8. Mr. H. M. TIMONEY

asked the Minister of Economic Affairs:

(1) Whether he has received a report on the proposed plan to convey mineral ore direct from the Northern Cape to a terminal at Saldanha Bay; if so,
(2) whether he will make a statement in regard to the matter.

The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC AFFAIRS:

(1) and (2). The Cabinet has appointed an inter-departmental committee, under the chairmanship of the Secretary for Industries, to study and to make a recommendation on the various schemes for the large scale export of iron ore. I shall make a statement when the Committee’s report, which is expected shortly, has been considered by the Cabinet.

Commission of Inquiry into Matters Relating to Security of the State *9. Mr. M. L. MITCHELL

asked the Prime Minister:

Whether he has received the report of the Commission of Inquiry into matters relating to the Security of the State on its original terms of reference; if so, when will it be laid upon the Table; if not, when does he expect to receive the report.

The PRIME MINISTER:

The report of the Commission of Inquiry into Matters relating to the Security of the State will be laid upon the Table as soon as it is received, but since the Commission is still occupied with its inquiry, it is not possible to indicate a date.

Mr. M. L. Mitchell:

Arising out of the reply of the hon. the Prime Minister, does he expect to have it before April the 22nd.

The PRIME MINISTER:

I cannot say.

Level Crossings on Southern Suburban Line,Cape Peninsula *10. Mr. J. W. E. WILEY

asked the Minister of Transport:

(a) How many level crossings are there on the Southern Suburban line north and south, respectively, of Lakeside station and (b) when is each of these crossings scheduled for elimination and replacement by underground or overhead thoroughfares.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

(a) There are eight level crossings situated north of Lakeside station, viz. at Claremont (Stegman Road), Kenilworth (Kenilworth Road), Dieprivier (De Waal Road and Marston Road), Heath-field (Roscommon Road), Retreat (Austell Road and White Road) and Steen-berg (Military Road) whilst five such crossings are situated south of Lakeside station at Lakeside (Uxbridge Road), False Bay (Albertyn Road), Muizenberg (York Road), Kalk Bay (on the road to the harbour) and Fish Hoek (Station Street).
(b) All the abovementioned crossings with the exception of that at Muizenberg (York Road) are listed for elimination in terms of section (6) of the Level Crossings Act, 1960. Construction work on the bridge structure of the elimination scheme at Dieprivier (De Waal Road) is expected to be completed within the next few months. Schemes for the elimination of the other level crossings listed are still in the planning stage and it is not possible to indicate at this juncture when construction work is likely to commence as this will depend on the completion of planning and other formalities and also in the allocation of the necessary funds for the various schemes by the Permanent Level Crossings Committee.

Commission of Inquiry into Fishing Industry *11. Mr. J. W. E. WILEY

asked the Minister of Economic Affairs:

Whether the Commission of Inquiry into the Fishing Industry has completed its deliberations; if so, when will its final report be available. The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC AFFAIRS:

No. The Commission will visit South West Africa next week in order to obtain further evidence. In view of the Commission’s wide terms of reference, which were also extended to South West Africa last year, its final report is not expected before the end of this year. Arrangements have, however, been made that in regard to aspects of a more urgent nature interim reports will be submitted. The hon. member will remember that the Commission’s first interim report dealing with the crayfish industry was tabled on 30th January, 1970.

White and Non-White Doctors Practising in the Republic *12. Mr. L. G. MURRAY

asked the Minister of Health:

How many (a) Bantu, (b) Coloured and (c) Asiatic doctors are practising in the Republic. The MINISTER OF HEALTH:

Since no separate registers are maintained by the South African Medical and Dental Council in respect of the various race groups, the particulars requested are not available.

Mr. L. G. MURRAY:

Arising out of the Minister’s reply, is he not in possession of any estimated figures.

The MINISTER:

I am afraid not.

Mr. L. F. WOOD:

Further arising out of the hon. the Minister’s reply, could the hon. the Minister advise us whether it is the intention to seek powers to provide for separate registers.

The MINISTER:

This matter is also under consideration at the moment by the Medical and Dental Council.

Mr. M. L. Mitchell:

Have you got a commission on it.

The MINISTER:

Are you looking for a job?

Mr. SPEAKER:

Order!

Funds Collected for University of Port Elizabeth *13. Mr. L. G. MURRAY

asked the Minister of National Education:

Whether the University of Port Elizabeth paid any commission, bonus or gratuity in respect of funds collected for the University; if so, (a) what amount, of) what was the rate of commission and (c) what was the amount collected. The MINISTER OF NATIONAL EDUCATION:

My Department of Higher Education has no record of the methods employed by the universities to collect funds. As the universities are autonomous institutions, they decide themselves as to what methods should be employed. However, the University of Port Elizabeth states that the position is as follows:

(i) One official receives three (3) per cent on his own collections plus R1,000 per annum in respect of travelling and incidental expenses.
(ii) One full-time collector receives R6.300 in respect of salary plus an allowance equal to his actual travelling expenses.
(iii) In a third case, funds are collected by professional collectors (company) against payment of an all-inclusive allowance of R1,650 per month.

Summarized, the replies to (a), (b) and (c) for the period 1967 to 1969 are as follows:

(a) R28.886 (including fixed salary of R12,600).
(b) The rate varies from three (3) per cent of salary to fixed monthly payment as agreed upon.
(c) R1,432,000 already collected.

Rifle Range for Pietermaritzburg *14. Cant. W. J. B. SMITH

asked the Minister of Defence:

(1) When will the rifle range for Pietermaritzburg be completed and brought into use;
(2) whether the range will still be on the proposed Merrivale site.

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE:

(1) Negotiations by the Department of Agricultural Credit and Land Tenure in connection with the acquisition of a suitable terrain for the rifle range have not yet been finalized. Provision has, however, been made for the construction of the rifle range during the 1970’71 financial year but it is not possible to say at this stage when it will be completed and brought into use.
(2) It depends on the outcome of the negotiations.

Emergency Relief Fund for Biafra *15. Mr. L. F. STOFBERG

asked the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions:

(1) Whether the Welfare Board gave permission for the collection of emergency relief funds for the inhabitants of Biafra; if so, (a) under what statutory provision was it done and (b) to which body or agency was permission given;
(2) whether reports that the emergency relief from South Africa has not been accepted have been brought to his notice;
(3) what steps does the Government now contemplate in regard to this matter.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL WELFARE AND PENSIONS:

(1) No, but the Chief Social Welfare Officer, Cape Town, issued a temporary permit on 22nd December, 1969, for the period 16 th September, 1969 to 31st December, 1969, for the Cape Peninsula and the Secretary for Social Welfare and Pensions issued a further temporary permit in terms of section 18 of the National Welfare Act, 1965, which authorizes the Biafra Relief Fund to raise funds in the Republic up to 31st March, 1970, for the indigent persons in Biafra. The conditions are that all purchases be made in the Republic and that the unused moneys be paid over to the fund for Foreign Emergency Relief.
(2) Yes.
(3) None.

Position of Non-Whites in S.A. Hotels for Whites *16. Mr. L. F. STOFBERG

asked the Minister of Community Development:

(1) Whether a statement, reported to have been made by a senior Government spokesman, that any non-white bona fide visitor may stay with Whites in South African hotels for Whites, has been brought to his notice;
(2) whether the Government is contemplating steps to prevent non-white visitors living in South Africa from staying in hotels for Whites.

The MINISTER OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT:

(1) No, but if the hon. member was really interested in what the true position is, the most elementary inquiry: would have made him aware that the position of non-Whites in South African hotels for Whites was laid down in 1950 when the Group Areas Act was first promulgated under the premiership of the late Dr. Malan, that it has existed unaltered under the premierships of the late Mr. Strydom and the late Dr. Verwoerd, and that to date it is still exactly the same. An attempt to create any other impression with the public is born out of either ignorance or wilfulness.
(2) I shall deal with this matter fully during the debate on the Part Appropriation Bill, and I am sorry for the hon. member.

Non-White Crews of Foreign Ships and Use of Night Clubs, Bioscopes and Other Public Facilities *17. Mr. I. F. STOFBERG

asked the Minister of Community Development:

(1) Whether non-white crews of ships calling at South African harbours may use facilities for Whites such as bioscopes, beaches, night clubs, swimming baths and restaurants;
(2) whether his attention has been drawn to a fight which occurred recently between Chinese and Japanese sailors in or near a Cape Town night club for Whites and in which a white woman or women were involved;
(3) whether steps are contemplated to prevent a recurrence; if not, why not.

The MINISTER OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT

(1) The occupation of persons in bioscopes, night clubs, swimming baths and restaurants is controlled by the provisions of section 1 (4) of the Group Areas Act, 1966 and Proclamation R26 of 12th February, 1965. The use of beach facilities does not fall in my province.
(2) No.
(3) The prevention of fights is not a matter within my jurisdiction.

Department of Justice: Circular No. 2 of 1968 Regarding Prosecutions i.c.w. Sabbath or Sunday Act of the Transvaal, 1896 *18. Mr. J. A. MARAIS

asked the Minister of Justice:

(1) Whether his approval was granted to Circular 2 of 1968. dated 9th February, 1968, in which public prosecutors of the Transvaal are instructed by the Attorney-General not to institute prosecutions for contravention of the Sabbath or Sunday Act of the Transvaal, 1896; if so,
(2) whether it is proposed to repeal this Act of 1896.

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE:

(1) Not beforehand. Circular No. 2 of 1968 of the Attorney-General in any case does not contain an instruction of the nature alleged by the hon. member in his question but is only to the effect that all police dockets submitted to prosecutors for a decision whether a prosecution in respect of offences under the Sabbath Act should be instituted or not should be referred to the Attorney-General for his decision. The Circular meets with my approval.
(2) No.

Department of Justice:

Circular No. 1 of 1969 Regarding Prosecutions i.c.w. Liquor Act

*19. Mr. J. A. MARAIS

asked the Minister of Justice:

(1) Whether his approval was granted to Circular No. 1 of 1969, dated 9th April, 1969, in which public prosecutors are instructed by the Attorney-General to institute no prosecutions for certain contraventions of the Liquor Act; if so,
(2) whether it is proposed to amend the Liquor Act so that visiting non-white persons will be permitted to consume liquor in South African hotels.

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE:

(1) Not beforehand. Circular No. 1 of 1969 of the Attorney-General in any case does not contain an instruction of the nature alleged by the hon. member in his question but is only to the effect that no prosecutions should be instituted against non-white foreign representatives and other dignitaries in connection with the supplying of liquor without the prior approval of the Attorney-General. The circular meets with my approval.
(2) No.

Erection of Hotel in Pretoria to Accommodate White and Non-White Persons *20. Mr. I. A. MARAIS

asked the Minister of Community Development:

(1) Whether his or his Department’s approval has been sought for the erection of a hotel in Pretoria in which visiting non-white persons will be accommodated together with white persons; if so, what site is contemplated for this hotel;
(2) whether such approval has been granted.

The MINISTER OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT:

(1) No.
(2) Falls away.

Displacement of White Female Employees by Coloured Employees *21. Dr. A. HERTZOG

asked the Minister of Labour:

(1) Whether any cases in which white women have been displaced from their employment as a result of the employment of Coloured persons have come to his notice; if so,
(2)what steps are being taken by the Government to protect such white women in their employment and to arrest the tendency.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR:

(1) From time to time complaints of this nature have been received, but in no instance did the investigation reveal a replacement of white workers. In certain instances, Coloureds were engaged to fill vacancies where Whites were not available. In such cases efforts were made and are still being made to supply the necessary white labour, and the requirements concerning racial separation are strictly enforced.
(2) Should Whites be replaced by Coloureds, the Government will, in terms of existing legislation, take steps to adjust the position.

Allowances paid to Robert Sobukwe *22. Dr. A. HERTZOG

asked the Minister of Justice:

(1) Whether any allowance is paid to Robert Sobukwe by the Government now that he is no longer detained on Robben Island; if so, what amount per month;
(2) whether housing and /or any other services are provided to him; if so, what is the value thereof.

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE

(1) Yes.

May, 1969	R100
June, 1969	R100
July, 1969	RI00
August, 1969	R40
September, 1969	R40
October, 1969	R40
Total	R420

No payments have been made since October, 1969.

(2) Not by my Department.

Promotion of Bantu police to rank of lieutenant *23. Dr. A. HERTZOG

asked the Minister of Police:

Whether Bantu police in the South African Police Service can henceforth be promoted to the rank of lieutenant; if so. what will be the official relationship between such a Bantu police Officer and a White policeman in a lower rank. The MINISTER OF POLICE: The various aspects of implementing an announcement in 1968 that non-White members of the South African Police will in due course also be able to attain Officers’ rank is still being considered by the Police Department. The official relationship between members of the South African Police is as laid down in the Police Act and Regulations. Loan granted to Malawi *24. Mr. W. T. MARAIS

asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs:

(l) Whether the loan of R8 million granted to Malawi by the Republic has been paid out in full; if so, when was it so paid out;
(2) whether he has ascertained the purpose for which the loan has been or is being used by Malawi; if so, what is the purpose;
(3) whether any repayment has been made by Malawi; if so, what repayment?

The MINISTER OFFOREIGN AFFAIRS:

(1) No.
(2) Yes. The loan is being utilized to defray expenditure connected with the construction and development of a new capital city for Malawi at Lilongwe.
(3) No.

Tuition to non-Whites in private White schools *25. Mr. W. T. MARAIS

asked the Minister of National Education:

Whether tuition is being given to any non-White persons in private white schools in the Republic and South-West Africa; if so, (a) in which schools, (b) for what reasons and (c) how many persons from each non-white race group are involved in this tuition. The MINISTER OF NATIONAL EDUCATION:

Ever since private schools came into being in South Africa, the right of admission thereto has vested in the governing bodies of such schools. Furthermore, private schools for Whites fall under the Provinces, and the tuition of pupils under Standard 10 does not come within the jurisdiction of the Minister of National Education. I am not, therefore, in a position to reply to the question, but as far as I have been able to ascertain, the schools still function exactly the same as was the case when the hon. member was a member of the National Party and his leader served as a member of the Government.

(a), (b) and (c) fall away.

Loans granted to Malawi by Industrial Development Corporation *26. Mr. W. T. MARAIS

asked the Minister of Economic Affairs:

(a) What loans have been granted to Malawi by the Industrial Development Corporation, (b) for what purposes are the loans being used, (c) what are the rates of interest and (d) what are the periods of the loans and the conditions of repayment.

The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC AFFAIRS:

(a) No direct loans. However, a financial credit amounting to R10,340,336 was granted on 14th May, 1968, in terms of the export finance scheme of the Industrial Development Corporation to enable a South African consortium to secure contracts for RIO,942,154, the content of which is mainly South African, including material and labour.
(b) For the construction of —
1. (i) a railway line from Liwonde in Malawi to Nova Freizo in Mozambique to join the existing railway line to Nacala on the Mozambique coast; and
2. (ii) railway carriages and other equipment.
(c) 6 per cent per annum.
(d) 15 years repayable as from the dates on which advances under the credit agreement are made.

Building of airport on West Rand *27. Mr. S. J. M. STEYN

asked the Minister of Transport:

Whether his Department is considering building an airport on the West Rand; if so, where will it be located. The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

My Department is not considering building an airport on the West Rand.

Vacation of flats as a result of share transactions *28. Mr. G. N. OLDFIELD

asked the Minister of Community Development:

(1) Whether is has been brought to his notice that tenants have been served notice to vacate flats as a result of share transactions by certain landlords;
(2) whether such tenants are protected by the Rents Act; if so, in terms of which section of the Act; if not, what steps have been taken or are contemplated to grant protection to such tenants.

The MINISTER OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT:

(1) Yes.
(2) Tenants of rent-controlled premises enjoy the necessary protection in terms of section 21 of the Rents Act.

White Railway employees: Losses and additions during 1969 *29. Mr. G. N. OLDFIELD

asked the Minister of Transport:

(1) (a) How many white Railway employees left the service during 1969 and (b) how many left the service due to (i) resignation, (ii) abscondment, (iii) retirement, (iv) death, (v) retrenchment and (vi) other reasons;
(2) how many white employees joined the Railway service during 1969.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRANSPORT

(1)
1. (a) 24,566.
2. (b)
  1. (i) 10,488
  2. (ii) 10,437
  3. (iii) 1,862
  4. (iv) 680
  5. (v) —
  6. (vi) 1,099.
3. (2) 21,301.

Reply standing over from Tuesday, 3rdFebruary, 1970

Arrests and convictions i.r.o. habit-forming and potentially harmful drugs

The MINISTER OF POLICE replied to Question *6, by Mr. L. F. Wood.

Question:

How many (a) arrests have been made and (b) convictions have been obtained in respect of the illegal possession, sale or use of (i) habit-forming and (ii) potentially harmful drugs during each of the last three years for which figures are available.

Reply:

In view of the fact that statistics in the form required by the hon. member are not kept, and the time, volume of work and cost involved in specially collecting such information, I regret that it is not practicable to furnish it.

For written reply:

Whites and non-Whites arrested and convicted for offences i.c.w. dagga 1. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Justice:

How many White, Coloured, Indian and Bantu persons respectively in the age groups (a) 17 years, (b) over 17 and 21 years and (c) over 21 years were (i) arrested and (ii) convicted for the illegal possession, sale or use of dagga during each year from 1963 to 1969. The MINISTER OF JUSTICE:

The Bureau for Statistics keeps statistics in respect of prosecutions and convictions and under the headings (1) cultivation of dagga, (2) use of dagga, (3) possession of dagga and (4) other offences in connection with dagga only.

1. 7.1963—30.6.1964

	Whites		Coloureds		Asiatics		Bantu
	(i)	(ii)	(i)	(ii)	(i)	(ii)	(i)	(ii)
(1) Up to 17 years	—	—	3	2	—	—	1	—
Over 17 and under 21	2	2	2	2	—	—	19	16
Over 21	16	6	42	30	—	—	612	522
(2) Up to 17 years	—	—	15	13	6	6	46	44
Over 17 and under 21	11	9	38	32	32	27	79	75
Over 21	28	21	130	116	69	65	349	318
(3) Up to 17 years	87	78	366	327	41	37	1,027	899
Over 17 and under 21	272	247	1,104	1,048	147	142	2,609	2,438
Over 21	613	537	3,292	3,066	420	395	13,389	12,179
(4) Up to 17 years	1	1	19	13	1	—	17	12
Over 17 and under 21	7	3	32	26	16	13	44	41
Over 21	25	14	172	112	33	26	672	547

1.7.1964-30.6.1965. Not available.

1.7.1965—30.6.1966

	Whites		Coloureds		Asiatics		Bantu
	(i)	(ii)	(i)	(ii)	(i)	(ii)	(i)	(ii)
(1) Up to 17 years	—	—	1	1	1	1	6	2
Over 17 and under 21	—	—	2	2	—	—	5	4
Over 21	19	6	24	23	13	3	446	380
(2) Up to 17 years	2	—	8	7	5	—	54	45
Over 17 and under 21	6	4	17	15	16	11	71	66
Over 21	11	8	53	48	49	37	329	313
(3) Up to 17 years	66	57	543	508	46	33	1,159	1,057
Over 17 and under 21	286	250	1,471	1,408	146	129	3,224	3,036
Over 21	672	592	4,109	3,846	490	426	13,597	12,400
(4) Up to 17 years	1	1	12	6	1	—	36	28
Over 17 and under 21	7	5	28	19	5	4	58	36
Over 21	15	14	152	99	23	15	636	489

1.7.1966—30.6.1967

	Whites		Coloureds		Asiatics		Bantu
(1) Up to 17 years	—	—	—	—	—	—	8	6
Over 17 and under 21	1	1	4	3	—	—	15	12
Over 21	16	9	31	22	6	6	378	234
(2) Up to 17 years	1	1	18	14	1	1	40	37
Over 17 and under 21	7	5	11	9	24	22	94	85
Over 21	12	12	68	60	31	30	312	290
(3) Up to 17 years	73	58	495	436	45	37	1,510	1,339
Over 17 and under 21	306	256	1,621	1,539	179	152	4,013	3,765
Over 21	843	692	4,864	4,598	502	435	16,007	14,560
(4) Up to 17 years	1	1	8	3	—	—	28	14
Over 17 and under 21	1	1	36	28	5	3	43	28
Over 21	15	10	182	118	11	7	618	453

1.7.1967—30.6.1968

	Whites		Coloureds		Asiatics		Bantu
(1) Up to 17 years	1	1	1	1	—	—	2	1
Over 17 and under 21	—	—	—	—	—	—	11	7
Over 21	10	4	27	20	1	—	316	252
(2) Up to 17 years	1	1	11	10	6	3	44	41
Over 17 and under 21	10	7	23	20	38	32	154	145
Over 21	22	16	57	52	65	61	479	451
(3) Up to 17 years	47	39	607	545	71	68	1,488	1,325
Over 17 and under 21	322	275	1 772	1,680	186	175	4,346	4,091
Over 21	789	656	5,041	4,771	590	513	15,708	14,365
(4) Up to 17 years	1	1	17	10	3	3	22	13
Over 17 and under 21	7	5	22	14	13	11	49	39
Over 21	31	23	177	120	23	19	607	451

1.7.1968—30.6.1969. Not yet available.

Applications received for registration of drugs 2. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Health:

(1) (a) How many applications for the registration of drugs have been (i) received, (ii) approved and (iii) rejected by the Drugs Control Council and (b) how many applications are pending;
(2) what amount has been received in (a) registration and (b) renewal fees.

The MINISTER OF HEALTH:

(1)
1. (a) Applications

(i)	(ii)	(iii)
Received	Approved	Rejected
2,149	331	4

(b) 2,012.

I may mention that of the 2,149 applications received, only 264 were in respect of new medicines intended for sale after July, 1968. In so far as medicines are concerned which were available prior to July, 1968, the applicants may continue with the sale thereof while the Drugs Control Council is considering their applications.

(2)
1. (a) R128,940.
2. (b) Nil.

Pay increases for white and non-white members of Public Service during 1969 3. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of the Interior:

(1) Whether (a) white and (b) non-white members of the Public Service received pay increases during 1969; if so, what over-all percentage increase in each case;
(2) how many (a) Bantu, (b) Coloured and (c) Indian employees are in receipt of salaries, rations and allowances which total (i) less than and (ii) more than R2,00 per working day.

The MINISTER OF THE INTERIOR:

(1) Yes.

	Percentage increase
(a) Whites
(i) Professional and other academically qualified personnel in other divisions as well as officials occupying posts of Under Secretary and equivalent or higher grades.	20-3% as from 1.4.1969.
(ii) Teachers	10% with effect from 1.4.1969 and an additional increase of 5% with effect from 1.4.1970.
(iii) Personnel in other divisions and work spheres.	Pensionable allowance of 6 % as from 1.4.1969 and consolidation of that allowance in basic salary with an additional average increase of 6-2% with effect from 1.10.1969.
(b) Non-Whites
(i) Teachers	10% with effect 1.4.1969 with an additional 5% as from 1.4.1970 in respect of teachers with higher professional qualifications.
(ii) Other salaried staff.	Pensionable allowance of 6% as from 1.4.1969 with an increase of the allowance to 10% with effect from 1.4.1970.

(2)

	(i)	(ii)
(a)	75,903	24,582
(b)	3,367	6,921
(c)	424	1,311

(Particulars in respect of non-White teachers are not included).

Pay increases for white and non-white members of S.A.R. & H. Administration during 1969 4. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Transport:

(1) Whether (a) white and (b) non-white employees of the South African Railways and Harbours Administration received pay increases during 1969; if so, what were the over-all percentage increases in each case;
(2) how many (a) Bantu, (b) Coloured and (c) Indian employees are in receipt of salaries, rations and allowances which total (i) less than and (ii) more than R2,00 per working day.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

(1) (a) and (b) No general pay increases were granted.

(2)

(a)	(i)	91,083
	(ii)	4,367
(b)	(i)	5,613
	(ii)	8,069
(c)	(i)	893
	(ii)	188.

Applications for telephones in Durban complex 5. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs:

How many applications for telephones in the Durban complex were (a) received and (b) met during 1969 and (c) still outstanding as at 31st December, 1969, The MINISTER OF POSTS AND TELEGRAPHS:

(a) 12,622 and (b) 8,768 and (c) 14,543. The figures under (a) and (b) are for the period 1st October, 1968, to 30th September, 1969. These statistics are not available for the year 1st January to 31st December, 1969.

Immigrants and Emigrants, 1969 6. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Planning:

(1) (a) How many persons immigrated to the Republic during 1969 and (b) front which countries did they come;
(2) how many (o) White, (6) Coloured, (e) Indian and (d) Bantu persons emigrated from the Republic during the same year.

The MINISTER OF PLANNING:

	(1) (a) Immigrants
	(i) entered	25,122
	and (ii) visitors approved as immigrants	4,319
	Total	29,441

(b)

Countries	Immigrants	Visitors approved as Immigrants
Rhodesia	1,961	573
Zambia	1,365	658
Malawi	28	29
Kenya	238	161
Tanzania	55	33
Mauritius	44	56
Madeira	88	23
Mozambique	184	182
Congo	14	31
Other African Countries	145	131
United Kingdom	10,342	1,125
Ireland	96	19
Austria	707	21
Belgium	390	32
Denmark	44	12
Finland	17	4
France	452	65
Germany	2,348	141
Greece	577	112
Netherlands	911	69
Italy	1,005	76
Norway	13	5
Portugal	932	129
Spain	26	17
Sweden	16	17
Switzerland	754	71
Czechoslovakia	1,241	12
Other European Countries	90	35
India	—	7
Japan	2	4
Malaysia	7	7
Cyprus	130	35
Israel	19	28
Other Asiatic Countries	26	34
Canada	152	22
United States of America	111	105
Argentina	6	1
Brazil	25	7
Other American Countries	4	18
Australia	394	141
New Zealand	159	83
Other Oceanic Countries	4	—

(2)
1. (a) 7,067,
2. (b) Information not available,
3. (c) 35 Indians and other Asiatics, and
4. (d) Information not available.

Apart from the 35 Asiatics 184 other non-Whites emigrated from the Republic.

NOTE: The abovementioned information is for the period 1st January to 30th September, 1969 only.

White and non-White Housing 7. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Community Development:

(1) What was the estimated shortage of houses for White, Coloured, Indian and Bantu persons respectively in each province as at 31st December, 1969;
(2) how many houses were made available for occupation by persons of each race group in each province during 1968 and 1969 respectively by (a) his Department and (b) local authorities.

The MINISTER OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT:

(1) My Department’s estimates in respect of the demand for dwellings for persons who qualify for housing financed from the National Housing Fund, as based on projections by demographs and waiting lists at local authorities and the Department’s regional Offices, are as follows:

	Transvaal	Cape	Natal	O.F.S.
Whites	1,220	1,910	1,240	310
Coloureds	4,800	14,700	1,460	450
Indians	1,350	1,110	8,870	0
Bantu	9,480	9,190	3,640	3,470

(a)	1968	1969	1968	1969	1968	1969	1968	1969
Whites	17	191	522	218	183	0	0	0
Coloureds	293	446	0	278	0	407	0	0
Indians	127	381	232	0	594	106	0	0
Bantu	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
(b)
Whites	1,912	2,040	835	788	312	192	209	272
Coloureds	315	1,024	5,641	9,757	310	36	66	152
Indians	216	404	0	0	2,688	1,952	0	0
Bantu	7,337	8,635	3,556	2,992	2,325	928	1,385	1,243

Average annual wages paid to white and non-white employees of S.A.R. & H. Administration, 1958 and 1968 8. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Transport:

What was the average annual wage paid to (a) White, (6) Coloured, (c) Indian and (d) Bantu employees of the South African Railways and Harbours Administration at the end of 1958 and 1968 respectively. The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

(a) December, 1958 R1,668
December, 1968 R2,892
(b) December, 1958 R295.68
December, 1968 R734.64
(c) December, 1958 R286.32
December, 1968 R560.16
(d) December, 1958 R286.32
December, 1968 R544.56

Coloured pupils successful in high school Examinations since 1963 9. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Coloured Affairs:

(1) How many Coloured pupils in each province have passed (a) std. VI and (b) std. VIII each year since 1963;
(2) what is the estimated total number of Coloured pupils who passed (a) std. VI, (b) std. VIII and (c) the matriculation or equivalent examination prior to 1st January, 1963;
(3) how many Coloured pupils have obtained a matriculation or senior certificate (a) with and (b) without university entrance qualification each year since 1964.

The MINISTER OF COLOURED AFFAIRS

(1)
1. (a) As the standard 6 examination is taken internally the statistics are not available.
2. (b) No statistics for the Transvaal and Natal for the years 1964,1965,1966 and 1967 are available, as the standard 8 examinations were taken internally. The statistics for 1963 are also not available.

	1964	1965	1966	1967	1968	1969
Cape Province	2,428	2,493	3,101	3,429	3,999	4,739
Orange Free State	46	42	32	28	25	43
Transvaal	(No statistics available on account of internal examination.)				250	620
Natal					284	380

(2) The necessary information of the provinces to be able to make a reliable estimate is not available.
(3) (a) Senior Certificate with Matriculation Exemption:

1964	1965	1966	1967	1968	1969
203	249	222	282	358	413*

(b) Senior Certificate without Matriculation Exemption:

1964	1965	1966	1967	1968	1969
399	615	662	905	920	1,033*

*The March 1970 supplementary examination results can only be added later.

Natal Indian pupils successful in high school examinations since 1964 10. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Indian Affairs:

(1) How many Indian pupils in Natal have passed (a) std. VI and (b) std. VIII each year since 1965;
(2) what is the estimated total number of Indian pupils in Natal who passed (a) std. VI, (b) std. VIII and (c) the matriculation or equivalent examination prior to 1st January, 1965;
(3) how many Indian pupils in Natal have obtained a matriculation or senior certificate (a) with and (b) without university entrance qualification each year since 1964.

The MINISTER OF INDIAN AFFAIRS:

(1)

	1965	1966	1967	1968	1969
(a)	6,293	7,896	9,924	9,359	10,387
(b)	1,364	3,527	2,577	3,006	3,898

(2) NOTE: Statistics represent passes in the ten year period 1955 to 1964.

(a) 48,594

(b) 10,186

(3)

	1964	1965	1966	1967	1968	1969
(a)	204	187	278	165	242	305
(b)	354	375	692	577	880	686

Hotels classified under Liquor Act 11. Mr. E. G. MALAN

asked the Minister of Justice:

How many hotels have been classified (a) under the Liquor Act and (b) in each of the categories A to F. The MINISTER OF JUSTICE:

(a)	1,157
(b)	Category	A	4
	Category	B	4
	Category	C	40
	Category	D	63
	Category	E	181
	Category	F	865

Processing of game carcasses in Kruger National Park 12. Mr. E. G. MALAN

asked the Minister of Agriculture:

(1) Whether the National Parks Board was involved in establishing a factory for canned venison; if so, (a) when and (b) at what cost was the factory erected;
(2) whether the factory was operated at a profit during each financial year; if not, (a) what was the profit or loss for each financial year and (b) what were the reasons for the loss.

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE:

(1) No—only in connection with the establishment of a by-product depot at Skukuza for the processing of game carcasses into biltong, blood-and bone meal. The enterprise was undertaken for the following reasons:
1. (i) From the viewpoint of nature conservation viz. to reduce the numbers of certain species of game which became too abundant in certain parts, thus threatening the continued existence of the park.
2. (ii) The laws regulating Veterinary Services prohibit the export from the Park of live or unprocessed game, with the exception of Quagga which are sold to farmers.
3. (iii) For reasons of hygiene. Game dying in the veld as a result of injuries constitutes a danger.
1. (a) 1967.
2. (b) Capital expenditure in connection with the byproduct depot for the period 1st April, 1967 to 31st December, 1969 amounts to R358,303,09.
(2) The depot was not operated at a profit during each year.
1. (a)
  1. Period 1/4/67 to 31/3/68 — R5,211,07 profit.
  2. Period 1/4/68 to 31/3/69 — R32,137,62 loss.
  3. Period 1/4/69 to 31/12/69 — R16,127.74 loss.
Stock to the value of approximately R20,000,00 is still on hand and the current financial year ought to show a profit again.
(b)
1. (i) New demands are being made from time to time by Veterinary Services. Production was hampered by extensions to the depot for example.
2. (ii) The undertaking is aimed solely at nature conservation and is not intended as a commercial venture.

Representations regarding playing of music on aircraft of S.A. Airways on Sundays 13. Mr. E. G. MALAN

asked the Minister of Transport:

Whether any representations have been made or complaints lodged in connection with the playing of music on aircraft of South African Airways on Sundays; if so (a) what was the nature of the representations or complaints, (b) what is the name of the person or body making the representations or lodging the complaints and (c) what was the reply thereto. The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

Yes.

(a) That some of the music played on aircraft on Sundays was not suitable.
(b) It is not considered to be in the public interest to reveal the names of persons who communicate with the Department on a confidential basis in regard to matters affecting the Service.
(c) The person from whom the complaint was received was informed that steps were being taken to select the music played on aircraft in such a manner as to eliminate cause for complaint.

Arrest and detention of Pati Lulu Betty Tshwa in terms of Terrorism Act 14. Mrs. H. SUZMAN

asked the Minister of Police:

(1) Whether a Bantu woman, Pati Lulu i Betty Tshwa, was arrested and detained in terms of the Terrorism Act during 1969; if so, (a) on what date was she; arrested and (b) for what period was she detained;
(2) whether any charge was laid against her; if so, (a) under what Act and (b) what was the nature of the charge;
(3) whether she was convicted; if so, what sentence was imposed by the Court.

The MINISTER OF POLICE:

(1) Yes.
1. (a) 30th July, 1969.
2. (b) 30th July, 1969 till 28th August, 1969.
(2) Yes.
1. (a) The Suppression of Communism Act, No. 44 of 1950.
2. (b) Unlawful possession of communist literature.
(3) Yes. Two months imprisonment conditionally suspended for one year.

15. Mrs. H. SUZMAN

—Reply standing over.

16. Mrs. H. SUZMAN

—Reply standing over.

Persons prosecuted and convicted of certain offences 17. Mrs. H. SUZMAN

asked the Minister of Police:

(1) How many were (a) prosecuted and (b) convicted during the period 1st July, 1968 to 30th June, 1969, of contraventions classified as offences;
(2) how many of these (a) prosecutions and (b) convictions were in respect of (i) murder, (ii) attempted murder, (iii) culpable homicide, (iv) robbery, (v) common assault, (vi) assault with intent to do grievous bodily harm and (vii) burglary.

The MINISTER OF POLICE:

(1) and (2) Statistics for the period required by the hon. member are not yet available.

Direct automatic dialling facilities at Randhoewe and Westonaria 18. Mr. E. G. MALAN

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs:

Whether steps are being taken to instal direct automatic dialling at the exchanges of (a) Randhoewe and (b) Westonaria; if so, (i) what steps, and (ii) when is the new system expected to come into operation; if not, why not. The MINISTER OF POSTS AND TELEGRAPHS:

(a) and (b) Yes.

Randhoewe:

In the provisional programme of 1972/73, provision has been made for the supply of equipment in respect of proposed new automatic exchanges at Eldorado, Wheatlands, Pelzvale, Main Reefs and Zuurbekom. The Randhoewe area will be served by these exchanges and it is expected that direct dialling facilities will be introduced at Randhoewe during 1973/74 simultaneously with the opening of the new exchanges.

Westonaria:

Equipment for the provision of direct dialling at Westonaria has been ordered for delivery during 1970/71 and the facilities are expected to be introduced during 1972.

Hijacking of aircraft 19. Mr. W. T. WEBBER

asked the Minister of Transport:

(1) Whether the Republic of South Africa was represented at the Amsterdam conference on the hijacking of aircraft; if so, (a) by whom and (b) what steps have been taken arising from the resolutions passed; if not, why not;
(2) whether the Republic is a party to the Tokyo Convention on hijacking and certain other offences committed aboard aircraft; if not, why not;
(3) whether the Republic is a party to any international agreements on the hijacking of aircraft; if so, which agreements; if not, why not;
(4) whether the Republic has any bilateral or multilateral air agreements with any countries; if not, why not; if so, with which countries;
(5) whether these agreements contain any special provisions in regard to the extradition and /or punishment of hijackers; if not, why not; if so, what are the provisions of the agreements with each country;
(6) whether any precautions have been taken to prevent the hijacking of aircraft of South African Airways on both domestic and international flights; if not. why not.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

(1) There was no “Amsterdam Conference on hijacking of Aircraft”. South African Airways were, however, represented by two officials at the Annual General Meeting of the International Air Transport Association (IATA) which took place in Amsterdam during 1969. At this meeting the question of hijacking formed an agenda item and a resolution was adopted which IATA communicated to my Department and which called upon States to take all measures necessary to end any further unlawful interference with aircraft in public air transport service and to support any action already taken or which may be taken by the United Nations or the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO).
(2) No. Although consideration has and is being given to the Republic of South Africa becoming a party to the Tokyo Convention, no decision has been reached. It is generally accepted that the present provisions of the Tokyo Convention has certain shortcomings, especially as regards hijacking of aircraft. In 1969 the council of ICAO established a “special committee on unlawful interference with civil aviation and its facilities”. During December, 1969, ICAO announced that a special draft treaty dealing solely with unlawful seizure of aircraft had been developed. After this draft had been considered by the ICAO Legal Committee in March, 1970, the draft treaty would be presented for adoption by a diplomatic conference later during 1970. Further consideration will be given to the question when the results of the March, 1970, meeting of the ICAO Legal Committee is known.
(3) No. I am not aware of any other agreements except the Tokyo Convention. The question, however, is confusing and if the honourable member is referring to extradition agreements, then it is not a matter to be dealt with by my Department.
(4)
1. (a) The Republic has bilateral agreements with the following States: Australia, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Botswana. Denmark. Federal Republic of Germany, France, Greece, Israel, Italy, Lesotho, Luxembourg, Malawi. Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Swaziland, Sweden. Switzerland, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, United States of America.
2. (b) It is assumed that in this context the term “multilateral air agreement” means a convention dealing with aviation. If so, the Republic is a party to—
  1. (i) Convention for the unification of certain rules relating to international carriage by Air (Warschau, 1929) as amended by the Hague Protocol (1955).
  2. (ii) Convention on International Civil Aviation (Chicago, 1944).
  3. (iii) International Air Services Transit Agreement (Chicago, 1944).
(5) No. The bilateral agreements deal with traffic rights and matters pertaining thereto and as far as I know, such agreements between other countries do not contain provisions concerning hijacking.
(6) I am of the opinion that it is not in the public interest to disclose the information called for.

Attendance of S.A.A. pilots of special conference on hijacking of aircraft 20. Mr. W. T. WEBBER

asked the Minister of Transport:

(1) Whether South African Airways pilots were represented at a special conference of the International Federation of Airline Pilots Association held in London during December, 1969, on the hijacking of aircraft; if so, by whom;
(2) whether this representative received financial assistance from the Government; if not, why not;
(3) whether representatives of the South African Airways Pilots Association receive any financial assistance from the Government to enable them to attend conferences of the International Federation of Airline Pilots Association; if not, why not;
(4) whether permission was requested by the South African Airways Pilots Association to participate in a proposed world-wide stoppage for 24 hours of all international airline services to attract attention to the seriousness of hijacking; if so,
(5) whether permission was granted; if not, why not.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

(1) Yes; by Captain F. Richter, Chairman of the South African Airways Pilots Association.
(2) No; no assistance was requested. Free air transportation was, however, provided.
(3) No; such assistance was not requested. Free air transportation is, however, provided by S.A.A. to two delegates annually.
(4) No.
(5) Falls away.

Cape Peninsula southern suburban railway line: White and non-white passengers; revenue and expenditure 21. Mr. J. W. E. WILEY

asked the Minister of Transport:

(1) (a) How many (i) white and (ii) non-White passengers used the Cape Peninsula southern suburban railway line during each of the last five years and (b) how many season tickets were issued to the public at stations south of Lakeside station;
(2) what was the (a) revenue and (b) expenditure during each of the last five years of the southern suburban line.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

(1)
1. (a) Details are not available.
2. (b) First class: 57,927.
  
  Third class: 6,780.
(2) Details are not available.

S.A.R. & H. Administration: White employees earning less than R200 per month 22. Mr. J. W. E. WILEY

asked the Minister of Transport:

(1) (a) How many white employees of the South African Railways and Harbours Administration received basic salaries of less than R200 per month during each of the past five years, (b) what categories of work did they perform and (c) what basic salary was paid in respect of each category;
(2) whether any compulsory deductions are made from these salaries; if so, what is the weekly or monthly amount in each category;
(3) what was the average weekly or monthly overtime worked by white railwaymen in each of these categories.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

(1)
1. (a) A total of 64,212 white employees received basic salaries or wages of less than R200 per month during 1969. Details are not readily available in respect of the previous four years.
2. (b) and (c) Details are not readily available.
(2) and (3) Details are not readily available.

Whites and non-Whites employed as postmen in Durban complex 23. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs:

How many White, Coloured, Indian and Bantu persons, respectively, are employed as postmen in the Durban complex. The MINISTER OF POSTS AND TELEGRAPHS:

Whites: 223 (including 88 postwomen who perform indoor duties).

Coloureds: 5.

Indians: 247.

Bantu: 32.

Graded posts in Railways and Harbours service filled by non-Whites 24. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Transport:

(a) In which graded posts in the Railways and Harbours service are vacancies being filled by non-white staff and (b) how many of these vacancies are filled by (i) Coloured, (ii) Indian and (iii) Bantu persons.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

(a)
1. Mooring attendant.
  - Flagman.
  - Deckhand (tugs and dredgers).
  - Stoker (tugs and dredgers).
  - Messenger.
  - Crossing attendant.
  - Castings dresser, class 2.
  - Trade hand (unclassified).
  - Carriage and wagon repairer, class 3. Steward.
  - Cook, class 2.
(b)
1. (i) 84.
2. (ii) 72.
3. (iii) 1,006.

25. Mr. L. F. WOOD

—Reply standing over.

Customs officials employed at major S.A. ports 26. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Finance:

(a) What is the present authorized establishment of customs officials at the ports of Durban, Cape Town, Port Elizabeth and East London, respectively, (b) how many posts are vacant and (c) how many of these posts are filled by (i) temporary and (ii) permanent staff.

The Minister of Finance:

		Durban	Cape Town	Port Elizabeth	East London
(a)	Authorized establishment as at 3rd February, 1970	261	223	139	71
(b)	Posts vacant	31	17	10	2
(c)	(i) Temporary staff	34	19	18	11
	(ii) Permanent staff	196	198	111	58

Permanent and temporary staff employed at major S.A. ports 27. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Transport:

(a) How many authorized posts are there at the ports of Durban, Cape Town, Port Elizabeth and East London, respectively, and (b) how many of these posts are filled by (i) permanent and (ii) temporary staff.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

(a)	Durban	4,262
	Cape Town	3,743
	Port Elizabeth	2,016
	East London	1,284
(b)	(i) Durban	2,032
	Cape Town	2,487
	Port Elizabeth	1,433
	East London	638
(ii) Durban	969
Cape Town	650
Port Elizabeth	370
East London	94

In addition to the permanent and temporary staff reflected under (b) (i) and (ii), the following casual servants are employed at the harbours in questions

Durban	228
Cape Town	301
Port Elizabeth	38
East London	11

Use of satellites i.c.w. telephone service between S.A. and South American countries 28. Mr. E. G MALAN

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs:

(1) Whether steps have been taken to make use of satellites for a telephone service between the Republic and (a) countries on the South American continent and (b) other countries; if so,
(2) whether he will make a statement in regard to the matter.

The MINISTER OF POSTS AND TELEGRAPHS:

(1) (a) and (b) Such steps were not taken from South Africa’s side. In the case of telecommunications traffic between the Republic and certain countries in South America, use is made of circuits in the Trans-Atlantic cable between South Africa and Spain, from where transit facilities in the form of satellite circuits via the Spanish ground station and the South Atlantic satellite are provided to and from the countries of destination by the private company in charge of Spain’s telecommunications affairs. The satellite circuits in question are the sole responsibility of that company. At this stage the possibility exists that a similar service may be introduced between the Republic and the United States of America only.
(2) The establishment of a ground station in South Africa and the use of direct satellite communications are not contemplated at present for the reasons set out in my statement of 13th May, 1969.

Commission of Inquiry into matters relating to Television 29. Mr. E. G. MALAN

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs:

(1) Whether the Commission of Inquiry into matters relating to television has commenced its deliberations; if so, how many meetings has it held;
(2) whether he will request the Commission to submit its report before 22nd April, 1970.

The MINISTER OF POSTS AND TELEGRAPHS:

(1) No.
(2) No.

Department of Cultural Affairs: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31,12.1969 30. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of National Education:

(a) What was the authorized establishment of the Department of Cultural Affairs in the (i) administrative, (ii) clerical, (iii) professional, (iv) technical, (v) general A; (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) non-classified and miscellaneous division as a{ 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (b) how many posts in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites.

The MINISTER OF NATIONAL EDUCATION:

(a)

			(b)	(c)	(d) (i)	(ii)
(i)	Administrative Division
	(1) Secretary	1	0	0	1	0
	(2) Deputy Secretary	1	0	0	1	0
	(3) Under Secretary	2	0	0	2	0
	(4) Senior Work Study Officer	1	0	0	1	0
	(5) Administrative Control Officer	2	0	0	2	0
	(6) Senior Accountant	1	0	0	1	0
	(7) Cultural Attache	3	0	1	2	0
	(8) Accountant	1	0	0	1	0
	(9) Administrative Officer	7	0	0	7	0
	(10) Training Officer	1	0	1	0	0
(ii)	Clerical Division
	(1) Senior Administrative Assistant	1	0	0	1	0
	(2) Senior Library Assistant	1	0	0	1	0
	(3) Assistant Accountant	1	0	0	1	0
	(4) Administrative Assistant	23	16	2	21	0
	(5) Library Assistant	59	21	0	59	0
	(6) Senior Typist	2	1	0	2	0
	(7) Typist	25	16	1	24	0
	(8) Part-time Typist	1	1	0	1	0
(iii)	Professional Division
	(1) Director: Language Services Bureau	1	0	0	1	0
	(2) Assistant Director: Language Services
	Bureau	3	0	0	3	0
	(3) Chief Language Officer	10	1	1	9	0
	(4) Senior Language Officer	10	3	1	9	0
	(5) Language Officer	12	2	2	10	0
	(6) Director of Archives	1	0	0	1	0
	(7) Deputy Director of Archives	1	0	0	1	0
	(8) Assistant Director of Archives	2	0	0	2	0
	(9) Chief Archivist	4	0	0	4	0
	(10) Senior Archivist	12	0	1	11	0
	(11) Archivist	40	12	1	39	0
	(12) Chief: Division of Adult Education	1	0	0	1	0
	(13) Chief Liaison Officer (Adult Education)	4	0	0	4	0
	(14) Senior Liaison Officer (Adult Education)	8	0	0	8	0
	(15) Liason Officer (Adult Education)	27	3	5	22	0
	(16) Chief Liaison Officer (Home Economics/ Dietetics)	1	0	0	1	0
	(17) Chief Professional Officer (Home Economics)	1	0	0	1	0
	(18) Chief Professional Officer (Dietetics)	1	0	0	1	0
	(19) Senior Professional Officer (Home Economics)	11	3	0	11	0
	(20) Senior Professional Officer (Dietetics)	1	1	0	1	0
	(21) Professional Officer (Home Economics)	39	14	7	32	0
	(22) Professional Officer (Dietetics)	20	3	6	14	0
	(23) Chief: Division of Library Services	1	0	0	1	0
	(24) Chief Librarian	2	0	0	2	0
	(25) Senior Librarian	6	0	0	6	0
	(26) Librarian	30	9	2	28	0
	(27) State Herald	1	0	0	1	0
	(28) State Historian	2	0	0	2	0
	(29) Senior Editor	5	1	0	5	0
	(30) Senior Professional Officer (Heraldry)	1	0	0	1	0
	(31) Professional Officer (Heraldry)	1	0	0	1	0
	(32) Chief Professional Officer (Museum)	1	0	0	1	0
	(33) Professional Officer (Museum)	3	1	0	3	0
	(34) Professional Officer (History)	1	0	1	0	0
	(35) Professional Officer (Physical Anthropology)	1	1	0	1	0
	(36) Professional Officer (Lower Vertebrates)	1	0	0	1	0
	(37) Professional Officer (Entomology)	1	0	1	0	0
	(38) Professional Officer (School Services)	1	1	0	1	0
	(iv) Technical Division
	(1) Senior Heraldry Draughtsman	1	0	0	1	0
	(2) Heraldry Draughtsman	1	1	0	1	0
	(3) Technician	2	0	1	1	0
	(4) Process Photographer	1	0	0	1	0
	(v) General A Division
	Nil posts
	(vi) General B Division
	(1) Senior Clerical Assistant	4	0	0	4	0
	(2) Clerical Assistant	35	20	3	32	0
	(3) Technical Assistant	7	0	2	5	0
	(4) Overseer	1	0	0	1	0
	(5) Part-time Clerical Assistant	1	1	0	1	0
	(vii) Services
	Nil posts
	(viii) Non-classified Division
	(1) Farm Manager	1	0	0	1	0
	(2) T.N. 7 (Messenger)	13	13	0	0	13
	(3) Coloured Messenger	2	2	0	0	2
	(4) Bantu Messenger	3	3	0	0	3
	(5) Non-White Labourer	17	14	3	0	14
	(6) Coloured Head Messenger	1	1	0	0	1
	(7) Bantu Labourer	22	22	0	0	22
	(8) T.N. 4 (Handyman)	7	5	2	5	0
	(9) T.N. 5 (Overseer/Guide)	3	3	0	3	0
	(10) T.N. 5 (Overseer)	3	2	1	2	0

Department of Higher Education: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 31. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of National Education:

(a) What was the authorized establishment of the Department of Higher Education in the (i) administrative, (ii) clerical, (iii) proffessional, (iv) technical, (v) general A, (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) non-classified and miscellaneous division as at 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (c) how many posts in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites.

The MINISTER OF NATIONAL EDUCATION:

1. Particulars of the posts created for the Department of Higher Education in terms of the Public Service Act, 1957 (Act No. 54 of 1957), as at 31st December, 1969, are as follows:—

	(a)	(b)	(c)		(d)
	Posts created	Posts filled by temporary appointments	Posts not filled	Posts (i) whites	filled by (ii) non-whites
(i) Administrative	54	—	1	53	—
(ii) Clerical	201:	58	3	198	—
(iii) Professional	32	—	5	27	—
(iv) Technical	44		6	38	—
(v) General A	36.	13	—	36	—
(vi) General B	1731	87	5	168	—
(vii) Non-classified	2	2	—	2	—
(viii) Other (non-Whites)	106	106	—	—	106
Totals	648	266	20	522	106

2. Particulars of the posts created for the Department of Higher Education in terms of the Educational Services Act, 1967 (Act No. 41 of 1967), as at 31st December, 1969, are as follows:

	(a)	(b)	(c)		(d)
	Posts created	Posts filled by temporary appointments	Posts not filled	Posts (i) whites	filled by (ii) non-whites
(i) Professional (Teaching Staff)	1,034	205	33	1,001	—
(ii) Non-Teaching Staff (Whites)	336	75	36	300	—
(iii) Non-Teaching Staff (Labourers)	724	*	*	—	*
Total	2,094

3. The information under 2 (iii) (b), (c) and (d) (ii) marked with *, are not available and cannot be supplied at short notice as the posts are filled locally by the schools concerned.

Department of Finance: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 32. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Finance:

The Minister of Finance:

(a)
1. (i) 126
2. (ii) 163
3. (iii) 46
4. (iv) 7
5. (v) 6
6. (vi) 126
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 163
(b)
1. (i) Nil
2. (ii) 30
3. (iii) 4
4. (iv) Nil
5. (v) 3
6. (vi) 43
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 162
(c)
1. (i) 7
2. (ii) 36
3. (iii) 10
4. (iv) Nil
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 6
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 1
(d)
1. (i) 119
2. (ii) 127
3. (iii) 36
4. (iv) 7
5. (v) 6
6. (vi) 120
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 52

Non-Whites:

(i) Nil
(ii) Nil
(iii) Nil
(iv) Nil
(v) Nil
(vi) Nil
(vii) Nil
(viii) 110

Department of Customs and Excise: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 33. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Finance:

(a) What was the authorized establishment of the Department of Customs and Excise in the (i) administrative, (ii) clerical, (iii) professional, (iv) technical, (v) general A, (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) nonclassified and miscellaneous division as at 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (c) how many posts in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE:

(a)
1. (i) 259
2. (ii) 499
3. (iii) —
4. (iv) —
5. (v) —
6. (vi) 522
7. (vii) —
8. (viii) 93
(b)

Administrative Division	—
Clerical Division	60
General B Division	60
Non-classified Division	88

Administrative Division	—
Clerical Division	52
General B Division	42
Non-classified Division	5

(i)	1,204
(ii)	70

Department of Inland Revenue: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 34. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Finance:

(a) What was the authorized establishment of the Department of Inland Revenue in the (i) administrative, (ii) clerical, (iii) professional, (iv) technical, (v) general A, (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) non-classified and miscellaneous division as at 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (c) how many posts in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE:

Statistics as at 31 st December 1969

Division	(a)	(b)	(c)	(d)
				(i)	(ii)
(i) Administrative	318	—	9	309	—
(ii) Clerical	1,077	236	138	939	—
(iii) Professional	5	—	—	5	—
(iv) Technical	—	—	—	—	—
(v) General A	—	—	—	—	—
(vi) General B	1,877	582	173	1,692	12
(vii) Services	—	—	—	—	—
(viii) Non-Classified and Miscellaneous	92	88	2	18	72
Total	3,369	906	322	2,963	84

Department of Agricultural Technical Services: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 35. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Agriculture:

(a) What was the authorized establishment; of the Department of Agricultural Technical Services in the (i) administrative, (ii) clerical, (iii) professional, (iv) technical, (v) general A, (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) nonclassified and miscellaneous division as at 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (c) how many posts in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites.

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE:

(a) 31st December, 1969
1. (i) 118
2. (ii) 471
3. (iii) 1,723
4. (iv) 1,518
5. (v) 85
6. (vi) 2,290
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 415
(b) 31st December, 1969
1. (i) Nil
2. (ii) no
3. (iii) 54
4. (iv) 29
5. (v) 7
6. (vi) 510
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 349
(c) 4th February, 1970
1. (i) 9
2. (ii) 63
3. (iii) 205
4. (iv) 209
5. (v) 3
6. (vi) 197
7. (vii) Nil
8. (v) 66
(d) 4th February, 1970
1. (i) Whites, 109; non-Whites, nil
2. (ii) Whites, 408; non-Whites, nil
3. (iii) Whites, 1,518; non-Whites, nil
4. (iv) Whites, 1,309; non-Whites, nil
5. (v) Whites, 82; non-Whites, nil
6. (vi) Whites, 2,093; non-Whites, nil
7. (vii) nil
8. (viii) Whites, 177; non-Whites, 172

Department of Agricultural Economics and Marketing: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.69 36. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Agriculture:

(a) What was the authorized establishment of the Department of Agricultural Economics and Marketing in the (i) administrative, (ii) clerical, (iii) professional, (iv) technical, (v) general A, (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) non-classified and miscellaneous division as at 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (c) how many posts in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites.

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE:

(a)
1. (i) 29
2. (ii) 106
3. (iii) 155
4. (iv) 315
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 67
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 13
b
1. (i) Nil
2. (ii) 26
3. (iii) 7
4. (iv) 26
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 35
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 12
c
1. Nil 118
2. (ii) 11
3. (iii) 40
4. (iv) 27
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 8
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 1
9. as at 31st December, 1969
(d)
1. (i) 586
2. (ii) 12

Department of Agricultural Credit and Land Tenure: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.69 37. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Agriculture:

(a) What was the authorized establishment of the Department of Agricultural Credit and Land Tenure in the (i) administrative, (ii) clerical, (iii) professional, (iv) technical, (v) general A, (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) non-classified and miscellaneous division as at 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (c) how many posts in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites.

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE:

(a)
1. (i) 198
2. (ii) 557
3. (iii] 47
4. (iv) 396
5. (v) 7
6. (vi) 609
7. (vii) None
8. (viii) 107
9. (ix) Non-classified additional to establishment—657
(b
1. (i) None
2. (ii) 159
3. (iii) None
4. (iv) 34
5. (v) 1
6. (vi) 220
7. (vii) None
8. (viii) i 97
9. (ix) 567
(c)
1. (i) 7
2. (ii) 69
3. (iii) 8
4. (iv) 89
5. (v) 2
6. (vi) 86
7. (vii) None
8. (viii) 10
9. (ix) 90
(d)
1. (i)
  1. 191
  2. (ii) 488
  3. (iii) 39
  4. (iv) 307
  5. (v) 5
  6. (vi) 523
  7. (vii None
  8. (viii) 12
  9. (ix) 111
2. (ii)
3. (i) None
4. (ii) None
5. (iii) None
6. (iv) None
7. (v) None
8. (vi) None
9. (vii) None
10. (viii) 85
11. (ix) 456.

Department of Defence: Authorized establishment and statf position at 31.12.69 38. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Defence:

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE:

(a)
1. (i) 34
2. (ii) 615
3. (iii) 5
4. (iv) 138
5. (v) 39
6. (vi) 1,887
7. (vii) 20,086
8. viii 1,721
(b)
1. (i) Nil
2. (ii) 196
3. (iii) 2
4. (iv) 15
5. (v) 21
6. (vi) 466
7. (vii) 2,580
8. (viii) 1,598
(c)
1. (i) 2
2. (ii) 75
3. (iii) Nil
4. (iv) 43
5. (v) 5
6. (vi) 263
7. (vii) 1,783
8. (viii) 184
(d)
1. (i) 19,391
2. (ii 2,779.

Department of Tourism: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 39. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Tourism:

(a) What was the authorized establishment of his Department in the (i) administrative, clerical, (iii) professional, (iv) technical, (v) general A, (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) non-classified and miscellaneous division as at 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (c) how many posts in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites.

The MINISTER OF TOURISM:

(a)
1. (i) 23
2. (ii) 33
3. (iii) 1
4. (iv) 2
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 13
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 2
(b)
1. (i) Nil
2. (ii) 2
3. (iii) Nil
4. (iv) Nil
5. (V) Nil
6. (vi) Nil
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 2
(As on 1.2.1970)
(c)
1. (i) 2
2. (ii) 12
3. (iii) 1
4. (iv) 1
5. (V) Nil
6. (vi) 5
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) Nil
(d)
1. (i) 51
2. (ii) 2

Department of Sport and Recreation: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 40. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Sport and Recreation:

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION:

(a)
1. (i) 4
2. (ii) 8
3. (iii) 20
4. (iv) Nil
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 5
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 1
(b)
1. (i) Nil
2. (ii) 2
3. (iii) Nil
4. (iv) Nil
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 1
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 1
(As on 31.12.69)
(c)
1. (i) Nil
2. (ii) 1
3. (iii) 2
4. (iv) Nil
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 3
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) Nil
(d)
1. (i) 29
2. (ii) 1

Department of Indian Affairs: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 41. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Indian Affairs:

(a) What was the authorized establishment of his Department in the (i) administrative, (ii) clerical, (iii) professional, (iv) technical, (v) general A, (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) non-classified and miscellaneous division as at 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (c) how many posts in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites. (a) What was the authorized establishment of his Department in the (i) administrative, (ii) clerical, (iii) professional, (iv) technical, (v) general A, (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) non-classified and miscellaneous division as at 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (c) how many posts in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites.

The MINISTER OF INDIAN AFFAIRS:

(a)
1. (i) 57
2. (ii) 68
3. (iii) 49
4. (iv) Nil
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 287
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 65
(b)
1. (i) Nil
2. (ii) 12
3. (iii) 1
4. (iv) Nil
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 35
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 54
(c)
1. (i) 4
2. (ii) 14
3. (iii) 5
4. (iv) Nil
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 22
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 11
(d)
1. (i) 186
2. (ii) 284

Note:

The above statistics do not include teaching personnel.

Department of Foreign Affairs: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 42. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs:

(a) What was the authorized establishment of his Department in the (i) administrative, (ii) clerical, (iii) professional, (iv) technical,, (v) general A, (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) non-classified and miscellaneous division as at 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (c) how many posts, in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites.

The MINISTER OFFOREIGN AFFAIRS:

(a)
1. (i) 149
2. (ii) 173
3. (iii) 1
4. (iv) Nil
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 38
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 630
(b)
1. (i) Nil
2. (ii) 20
3. (iii) Nil
4. (iv) Nil
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 10
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 582
(c)
1. (i) Nil
2. (ii) 19
3. (iii) Nil
4. (iv) Nil
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) Nil
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 48
(d)
1. (i) 885
2. (ii) 39

43. Mr. L. F. WOOD

—Reply standing over.

Department of Economic Affairs: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 44. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Economic Affairs:

(a) What was the authorized establishment of the Department of Industries in the (i) administrative, (ii) clerical, (iii) professional, (ii) technical, (v) general A, (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) non-classified and miscellaneous division as at 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (c) how many posts in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites.

The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC AFFAIRS:

	(a)	(b)	(c)	(d) (i)	(d) (ii)
(i)	22	Nil	1	21	Nil
(ii)	49	15	1	48	Nil
(iii)	111	5	24	87	Nil
(iv)	97	15	13	84	Nil
(v)	9	3	Nil	9	Nil
(vi)	144	12	27	117	Nil
(vii)	Nil	Falls away	Falls away	Falls away	Falls away
(viii)	439	404	35	62	342

Employees under category (viii) are regarded as temporary units in the sense that they do not contribute to the Public Service Pension Fund and can be discharged on twenty-four hours notice.

Department of Labour: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 45. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Labour:

(a) What was the authorized establishment of his Department in the (i) administrative, (ii) clerical, (iii) professional, (iv) technical, (iii) general A, (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) non-classified and miscellaneous division as at 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (c) how many posts in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR:

The figures as at 31st December, 1969, were as follows:

	(a)	(b)	(c)
(i)	154	—	—
(ii)	700	142	63
(iii)	115	10	5
(iv)	83	1	20
(v)	—	—	—
(vi)	669	236	60
(vii)	—	—	—
(viii)	143	128	8

(d)

(i)	(ii)
1,632	76

Department of Coloured Affairs and of Rehoboth Affairs: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 46. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Coloured Affairs:

The MINISTER OF COLOURED AFFAIRS:

		Department of Coloured Relations and Rehoboth Affairs.	Administration of Coloured Affairs.
(a)	(i)	39	None
	(ii)	50	None
	(iii)	10	None
	(iv)	3	None
	(v)	None	None
	(vi)	22	1,412
	(vii)	None	None
	(viii)	130	1,155
(b)	(i)	None	None
	(ii)	5	None
	(iii)	None	None
	(iv)	None	None
	(v)	None	None
	(vi)	6	171
	(vii)	None	None
	(viii)	1	79
(c)	(i)	6	None
	(ii)	4	None
	(iii)	1	None
	(iv)	1	None
	(v)	None	None
	(vi)	1	107
	(vii)	None	None
	(viii)	62	40

(d) (i) and (ii): All posts on the establishment of (d) (i) Since Coloured incumbents are not the Department are filled by Whites except the following:

Professional Division:	1 post
General B Division:	1 post
Non-classified:	63 posts

(i) Since Coloured incumbents are not available, the posts are filled as follows by White Officers and employees:

(i) Administrative:	82
(ii) Clerical:	250
(iii) Professional:	152
(iv) Technical:	12
(v) General A:	9
(vi) General B:	122
(vii) Services:	None
(viii) Non-classified:	37

(ii)

(i)-(v) General A:	None
(vi) General B:	707
(vii) Services:	None
(viii) Non-classified:	1,042

Department of Bantu Administration and Development: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 47. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Bantu Administration and Development:

The MINISTER OF BANTU ADMINISTRATION AND DEVELOPMENT:

(a)
1. (i) 381
2. (ii) 354
3. (iii) 95
4. (iv) 145
5. (v) 238
6. (vi) 1,469
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 1,330
(b)
1. (i) 3
2. (ii) 245
3. (iii) 18
4. (iv) 11
5. (v) 82
6. (vi) 197
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 34
(c)
1. (i) 12
2. (ii) 5
3. (iii) 5
4. (iv) 37
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 160
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 116
(d)
1. (i) 1,756 Whites
2. (ii) 1,850 non-Whites.

Department of Bantu Education: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.69 48. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Bantu Education:

The MINISTER OF BANTU EDUCATION:

(a)
1. (i) 46
2. (ii) 178
3. (iii) 89
4. (iv) 27
5. (v) 5
6. (vi) 319
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 1,287
(b)
1. (i) Nil
2. (ii) 53
3. (iii) 1
4. (iv) Nil
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 60
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) Nil
(c)
1. (i) 2
2. (ii) 18
3. (iii) 3
4. (iv) 1
5. (v) 1
6. (vi) 11
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 43
(d)
1. (i) 494
2. (ii) 1,457

Department of Justice: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.69 49. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Justice:

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE:

	(i)	(ii)	(iii)	(iv)	(v)	(vi)	(vii	(viii)
(a)	175	1,395	1,535	—	17	1,411	—	258
(b)	1	325	72	—	4	336	—	102
(c)	5	96	72	—	2	122	—	10

Department of Prisons: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.69 50. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Prisons:

The MINISTER OF PRISONS:

On the 31st December, 1969, the authorized establishment was as follows:

(a)
1. (i) Administrative posts: 3.
2. (ii) Clerical posts: None.
3. (ii) Professional posts: 3.
4. (iii) Technical posts: None.
5. (iv) General A-posts: None.
6. (v) General B-posts: None.
7. (vi) Services posts: 9,634.
8. (vii) Non-classified and miscellaneous division: None.
(b) Number of posts filled by temporary appointments:
1. (i) Administrative: None.
2. (ii) Professional: None.
3. (iii) Services: 320.
(b) Number of posts not filled on the 31st January, 1970:
1. (i) Administrative: None.
2. (ii) Professional. 3.
3. (iii) Services: None.
(c) On the 1st February, 1970, posts were filled by:
1. (i) Whites 5,774.
2. (ii) Non-Whites 3,863.
(d) On the 1st February, 1970, posts were filled by:
1. (i) Whites 5,774.
2. (ii) Non-Whites 3,863.

Department of Mines: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.69 51. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Mines:

The MINISTER OF MINES:

(a)		(b)	(c)
Classification of posts	Number	Posts filled by temporary appointments	Posts vacancy
(i) Administrative	95	None	1
(ii) Clerical	201	83	26
(iii) Professional	261	19	43
(iv) Technical	118	15	10
(v) General A	3	None	None
(vi) General B	121	49	13
(vii) Services	None	None	None
(viii) Non-classified	223	143	80
Total	1,022	309	173

(d) Posts filled by 713 Whites and 136 Non-whites.

Department of Planning: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.69 52. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Planning:

The MINISTER OF PLANNING:

(a)
1. (i) 57
2. (ii) 66
3. (iii) 58
4. (iv) 5
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 18
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 11
(b)
1. (i) Administrative: Nil
2. (ii) Clerical: 26
3. (iii) Professional: 3
4. (iv) Technical: 1
5. (v) General A: Nil
6. (vi) General B: 8
7. (vii) Services: Nil
8. (viii)Non-classified and miscellaneous division: 11
(c) 31st December, 1969:
1. (i) Administrative: 6
2. (ii) Clerical: 3
3. (iii) Professional: 13
4. (iv) Technical: 2
5. (v) General A: Nil
6. (vi) General B: Nil
7. (vii) Services: Nil
8. (viii)Non-classified and miscellaneous division: Nil
(d)
1. (i) 180
2. (ii) 11

Department of Health: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.69 53. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Health:

(a) What was the authorized establishment of his Department in the (i) administrative, (ii) clerical, (iii) professional, (iv) technical, (v) general A, (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) non-classified and miscellaneous division as at 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (c) how many posts in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites.

The MINISTER OF HEALTH:

	(a)	(b)	(c)	(d)
(i)	116	—	—	(i) 4,688
(ii)	220	50	24	(ii) 7,260
(iii)	411	36	78
(iv)	257	26	189
(v)	207	13	69
(vi)	3,751	1,380	93
(vii)	—	—	—
(viii)	7,694	7,439	255

Department of Posts and Telegraphs: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 54. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs:

The MINISTER OF POSTS AND TELEGRAPHS:

Division	Authorised establishment	Number of temporary incumbents	Number of posts not filled (actual vacancies)	Total number of incumbents (permanent and temporary)
				White	Non-White
Administrative	1,996	—	56	1,940	—
Clerical	6,960	258	516	6,226	218
Professional	242	8	25	217	—
Technical	4,336	52	307	4,029	—
General A	1,283	13	70	1,131	82
General B	25,302	7,443	2,394	20,745	2,163
Non-classified	5,712	1,282	532	762	4,418
Services		—	—	—	—
Total	45,831	9,056	3,900	35,050	6,881

The above figures reflect the position as at 31st December, 1969.

Most of the vacancies in the Administrative division will be filled by promotions during the course of this month.

On the 30th January, 1970, the following number of Officers (Whites) were in training (they are employed supernumerary to the authorized establishment)—

Clerks (Clerical division): 413
Woman Assistants (General B division): 644
Pupil Technicians (Technical division): 1,125
Learner Telephone Mechanics and Cable Jointers (General B division): 1,300
Of these Officers, the following are expected to complete their training during 1970—
- Clerks: 413
- Woman Assistants: 644
- Pupil Technicians: 185
- Learner Telephone Mechanics and Cable Jointers: 347

Department of Community Development: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 55. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Community Development:

(a) What was the authorized establishment of his Department in the (i) administrative, (ii) clerical, (iii) professional, (iv) technical, (v) genera] A, (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) non-classified and miscellaneous division as at 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (c) how many posts in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites.

The MINISTER OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT:

(a)	(b)	(c)	(d)
			Whites	Non-Whites
(i) 139	0	4	135	0
(ii) 423	88	64	359	0
(iii) 69	3	52	17	0
(iv) 259	20	40	219	0
(v) 0	0	0	0	0
(vi) 360	120	39	318	3
(vii) 0	0	0	0	0
(viii) 325	4	47	29	249

Department of Public Works: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 56. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Public Works:

The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS:

(a)	(i) 153	(b)	2	(c)	6	(d)	(i)	6	(d)	(ii)	None
	(ii) 393		86		46			46			None
	(iii) 136		18		31			31			None
	(iv) 532		39		87			87			None
	(v) 52		7		3			3			None
	(vi) 266		84		31			31			None
	(vii) None		—		—			—			—
	(viii) 420		378		42			42			52

Department of Interior: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.1969 57. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of the Interior:

The MINISTER OF THE INTERIOR:

Particulars in respect of the Department of the Interior.

	(i)	(ii)	(iii)	(iv)	(v)	(vi)	(vii)	(viii)
(a)	83	173	Nil	Nil	Nil	683	Nil	48
(b)	Nil	28	Nil	Nil	Nil	192	Nil	43
(c)	5	17	Nil	Nil	Nil	73	Nil	5

(d)
1. (i) 842
2. (ii) 45.

Particulars in respect of the Office of the Public Service Commission.

(a)
1. (i) 121
2. (ii) 54
3. (iii) Nil
4. (iv) Nil
5. (V) Nil
6. (vi) 21
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 9
(b) and (c)

Division	Posts filled by temporary appointments	Posts not filled on 31.1.1970
Administrative	None	6
Clerical	4	9
General B	9	none
Other divisions	None	None

Department of Water Affairs: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.69 58. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Water Affairs:

(a) What was the authorized establishment of his Department in the (i) administrative, (ii) clerical, (iff) professional, (iv) technical, (v) general A, (vi) general B, (vii) services and (viii) non-classified and miscellaneous division as at 31st December, 1969, (b) how many posts in each division are filled by temporary appointments, (c) how many posts in each division were not filled at the latest date for which statistics are available and (d) how many posts are filled by (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites.

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS:

Division	Authorized Establishment	Temporary Appointments	Posts not filled
	(a)	(b)	(c)
Administrative	68	—	9
Clerical	206	56	10
Professional	314	23	112
Technical	354	19	76
General A	46	6	1
General B	799	55	29
Services	—	—	—
Non-classified	3,788	—	—

(d) Posts filled by
1. (i) Whites 1,633
2. (ii) non-Whites 3,717

A further 3,460 Whites and 18,151 Non-Whites employed in terms of the provisions of Section 3 of the Water Act, 1956 (Act No. 54 of 1956).

Department of Forestry: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.69 59. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Forestry:

The MINISTER OF FORESTRY:

Division	Authorized Establishment	Temporary Appointments	Posts not filled
	(a)	(b)	(c)
Administrative	61	—	4
Clerical	179	21	3
Professional	124	—	4
Technical	464	4	53
General A	9	—	3
General B	1,214	169	189
Services	—	—	—
Non-classified	346	269	77

(d) Posts filled by
1. (i) Whites 1,776
2. (ii) Non-Whites 288

Employed in addition to the above according to requirements and available funds (As at 30/9/69):

TN 6 Labourers (White)	1,060
Non-White Labourers	12,390
Building Artisans: White	140
Non-White	153

Department of Information: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.69 60. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Information:

The MINISTER OF INFORMATION:

(a)
1. (i) 9
2. (ii) 50
3. (iii) 190
4. (iv) 17
5. (V) None
6. (Vi) 139
7. (vii) None
8. (viii) 41
(b)
1. (i) None
2. (ii) 22
3. (iii) 8
4. (iv) None
5. (V) None
6. (vi) 23
7. (vii) None
8. (viii) 37
9. (i) None
(c)
1. (ii) 1
2. (iii) 19
3. (iv) 7
4. (V) None
5. (vi) 10
6. (Vii) None
7. (viii) 4
8. (i) 279
9. (ii) 126.

Department of Social Welfare and Pensions: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.69 61. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions:

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL WELFARE AND PENSIONS:

(a)
1. (i) 94
2. (ii) 380
3. (iii) 262
4. (iv) Nil
5. (v) 8
6. (vi) 496
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 255
(b)
1. (i) Nil
2. (ii) 106
3. (iii) 46
4. (iv) Not applicable
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 221
7. (vii) Not applicable
8. (viii) Not applicable
(c)
1. (i) Nil
2. (ii) 27
3. (iii) 11
4. (iv) Not applicable
5. (v) 1
6. (vi) 30
7. (vii) Not applicable
8. (viii) 22
(d)
1. (i) 1,194
2. (ii) 210.

Department of Immigration: Authorized establishment and staff position at 31.12.69 62. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Immigration:

The MINISTER OF IMMIGRATION:

(a)
1. (i) 82
2. (ii) 124
3. (iii) Nil
4. (iv) Nil
5. (v) Nil
6. (vi) 91
7. (vii) Nil
8. (viii) 10
(b)
1. (i) Nil
2. (ii) 30
3. (vi) 36
4. (viii) 10
(c)
1. (i) 2
2. (ii) 6
3. (vi) 15
(d)
1. (i) 275
2. (ii) 9

Appointment of analysts, pharmacologists and pathologists in terms of Drugs Control Act,1965 63. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Health:

Whether he has appointed (a) analysts, (b) pharmacologists and (c) pathologists in terms of section 27 (1) of the Drugs Control Act, 1965; if so, how many in each case.

The MINISTER OF HEALTH:

(a), (b) and (c) No.

Inspectors in terms of Drugs Control Act: Authorized establishment and staff position 64. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Health:

Whether he has appointed any inspectors in terms of section 26 (1) of the Drugs Control Act, 1965; if so, (a) what is the present authorized establishment and (b) how many of the posts are filled by (i) permanent and (ii) temporary staff.

The MINISTER OF HEALTH:

Yes.

(a) 3 posts.
(b)
1. (i) All three posts are occupied by permanent staff.
2. (ii) Falls away.

Conveyance of new motor cars by rail from factory to dealers 65. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Transport:

Whether it is the intention of his Department to provide adequate facilities for new motor cars to be conveyed by rail from factory to dealers; if so, (a) what facilities and (b) when will they be introduced.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

The demand for the conveyance of motor vehicles by rail is at present being met. In order to meet future requirements, arrangements are being made to acquire two train sets of special double-decker wagons, each set consisting of 25 bogies, for the conveyance of motor vehicles from factory to dealers. From six to 12 vehicles will be conveyed in each wagon, depending on the size of the motor vehicles.

Delivery of the wagons is expected to commence in August, 1971.

Fixed property owned by Indians 66. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Indian Affairs:

(a) How many Indians in (i) rural areas, (ii) urban areas and (iii) Indian townships in urban areas own fixed property and (b) what is the total (i) value and (ii) area of the property owned in each category.

The MINISTER OF INDIAN AFFAIRS:

My Department does not have the information the hon. member requires.

Fixed property owned by Coloureds 67. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Coloured Affairs:

(a) How many Coloured persons in (i)rural areas, (ii) urban areas and (iii) Coloured townships in urban areas own fixed property and (b) what is the total (i) value and (ii) area of the property owned in each category.

The MINISTER OF COLOURED AFFAIRS:

Particulars are not available.

Fixed property owned by Bantu 68. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Bantu Administration and Development:

(a) How many Bantu in (i) the homelands, (ii) rural areas and (iii) urban townships own fixed property and (b) what is the total (i) value and (ii) area of the property owned in each category.

The MINISTER OF BANTU ADMINISTRATION AND DEVELOPMENT:

It is regretted that this information is not readily available. To obtain it will necessitate extensive research which is not considered justified in the circumstances.

Pesticide residue hazards 69. Mr. L. F. WOOD

asked the Minister of Health:

Whether, in the light of the tests under taken by the South African Bureau of Standards in connection with pesticide residue hazards, mentioned in the 24th Annual Report of the Bureau, he will make a statement indicating (a) the extent of the contamination of crops, produce and water supplies, (b) whether such contamination is in a concentration sufficient to endanger the health of human and animal life and (c) the steps to be taken to prevent or minimize such effects.

The MINISTER OF HEALTH:

(a) and (b) No routine tests for pesticidal residues in crops, produce or water supplies are undertaken by the South African Bureau of Standards. The pesticidal tests to which the hon. member refers were undertaken by the Bureau for registration purposes at the request of applicant manufacturers and the Department of Agricultural Technical Services. Suitability, effectiveness and poison tolerance are amongst others, prerequisites for the registration of any agricultural remedy and it was for this purpose that the tests concerned were carried out by the Bureau of Standards and not directly in connection with general consumers food or water. It can be expected, however, that agricultural products which were treated with pesticides would for a prescribed safety period have undesirable residues, but if the products are not marketed before the expiry of this period, no hazards will arise therefrom. The sampling of foodstuffs and domestic water supplies is the responsibility of local authorities. No instance of excessive pesticidal residues in food or domestic water has been brought to the notice of the Department. Moreover no dangerous quantities of pesticidal residues were found in any of the samples sent to departmental laboratories for analysis.
(b) Only recently I have approved of the withdrawal of a Government Notice which, as early as 1951, declared insecticidal poisoning as a notifiable disease, and the substitution thereof by a new notice which will shortly be published and whereby poisoning in any form by insecticides and pesticides will be declared a notifiable disease in the whole of the Republic.

Information thus obtained will enable the Department of Health to take the steps which may be required to combat the danger.

Department of Posts and Telegraphs: Employees earning less than R200 per month 70. Mr. J. W. E. WILEY

asked the Minister of Posts and Telegraphs:

(1) (a) How many white employees of his Department received basic salaries of less than R200 per month during each of the past 5 years, (b) what categories of work did they perform and (c) what basic salary was paid in respect of each category;
(2) whether any compulsory deductions are made from these salaries; if so, what is the weekly or monthly amount in each category;
(3) what was the average weekly or monthly overtime worked by white employees in each of these categories.

The MINISTER OF POSTS AND TELEGRAPHS:

The relative statistics are not readily available and compilation thereof will require a large amount of time and labour which cannot unfortunately be justified.

Properties purchased and sold by Group Areas Development Board in District Six 71. Mr. L. G. MURRAY

asked the Minister of Community Development:

(1) (a) How many properties were (i) purchased and (ii) sold by the Group Areas Development Board in the District Six redevelopment area of Cape Town during 1967, 1968 and 1969, respectively,
1. (a) what was the total price paid and
2. (b) what was the total current rateable value of the properties purchased;
(2) whether any of the properties were resold; if so, what was (a) the total received and (b) the total rateable value of these properties.

The MINISTER OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT:

		1967	1968	1969
(1)	(a)	(i) 50	363 (whereof 293 were expropriated).	896 (whereof 789 were expropriated).
		(ii) Nil	Nil	Nil
	(b)	R189.408	R598,707 in respect of 100 properties on which finality was reached regarding compensation.	R2,466,547 in respect of 198 properties on which finality was reached regarding compensation.
	(c)	R164.210	R534.758 in respect of the 100 properties mentioned under (b).	R1,918,020 in respect of the 198 properties mentioned under (b).
(2)		No.

Non-application of Rents Act, 1950 72. Mr. L. G. MURRAY

asked the Minister of Community Development:

Whether any properties have been exempted in terms of section 33 (1) (b) of the Rents Act, 1950; if so, (a) what properties, (b) on what date and (c) who were the owners, and in the case of a company, the directors of the company.

The MINISTER OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT:

No exemption of properties from rent control is possible in terms of section 33 (1) (b) of the Rents Act, 1950. The hon. member presumably refers to section 33 (IB). No properties have thus far been exempted from rent control in terms of this subsection.

Inaugural flights undertaken by S.A. Airways 73. Mr. L. G. MURRAY

asked the Minister of Transport:

(a) On what dates did the South African Airways inaugural flights to (i) Australia, (ii) South America and (iii) round the Bulge of Africa to Europe take place and (b) what are the names of the persons invited as guests in respect of each flight.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

(a)
1. (i) 3rd May, 1967, and 24th May, 1967.
2. (ii) 26th March, 1969.
3. (iii) No inaugural flights were operated to commemorate the diversion of S.A.A. flights to the new routes round the Bulge of Africa.
(b) It is common practice amongst airlines, with the concurrence of IATA, to arrange inaugural flights when new routes are introduced or existing routes extended and to invite prominent persons in different walks of life in their individual capacities or as representatives of groups or organizations, as guests on these flights. The purpose of an inaugural flight is to promote goodwill and to obtain publicity for the airline.
In view of the foregoing no purpose will be served by giving the further information desired by the hon. member.

Members of the Council of the University of Port Elizabeth 74. Mr. L. G. MURRAY

asked the Minister of National Education:

What are the names of the members of the Council of the University of Port Elizabeth. The MINISTER OF NATIONAL EDUCATION:

Mr. J. A. Delport

Dr. J. B. Nel

Mr. C. J. van Vollenhoven

Dr. A. D. Wassenaar (Chairman)

Mr. Justice G. C. A. Munnik

Mr. D. C. F. Ellis

Reverend M. A. Rimmington

Mr. F. D. Conradie (M.E.C.)

Reverend D. T. du P. Moolman

Mr. J. J. Engelbrecht (M.P.)

Mr. S. R. Edkins

Professor A. D. Muller

Professor S. J. Schoeman

Professor E. J. Marais (Principal ex officio)

Resignations from Police Force since 1965 75. Mr. L. G. MURRAY

asked the Minister of Police:

How many (a) Officers and (b) other ranks resigned from the Police Force during each year since 1965.

	(a)	(b)
1965	6	1.367
1966	1	915
1967	6	1,114
1968	15	1,337
1969	9	1,438

Figures under (b) also include discharges by purchase.

Authorized strength of Police Force during certain years. 76. Mr. L. G. MURRAY

asked the Minister of Police:

(a) What was the authorized strength of the Police Force and (b) how many (i) generals, (ii) lieutenant-generals, (iii) major-generals and (iv) brigadiers were there in the Police Force on 31st December of 1948, 1953, 1958, 1963 and 1969, respectively.

The MINISTER OF POLICE:

1948	20,588
1953	22,841
1958	28,465
1963	29,039
1969	34,437

	General	Lieutenant general	General major	Brigadier
1948:	—	—	1	1
1953:	—	—	1	3
1958:	—	—	1	4
1963:	—	1	2	10
1969:	1	2	3	39

Amounts paid to Cape local authorities by National Housing Commission, and White and non-White housing provided. 77. Mr. L. G. MURRAY

asked the Minister of Community Development:

(1) What amounts were paid by the National Housing Commission during each year since 1960 to (a) the Cape Town Municipality, (b) the Divisional Council of the Cape and (c) other organizations for the housing of (i) Whites and (ii) non-Whites in the areas of these councils;
(2) how many individual housing units were constructed for (a) Whites and (b) non-Whites during each of these years in the areas of these councils.

The MINISTER OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT:

(1)	(a)			(b)			(c)
	(i)	R	(ii)	(i)	R	(ii)	(i)	R	(ii)
1960/61	0		1,258,440	55,000		64,344	0		0
1961/62	9,656		2,216,280	821,904		87,420	0		0
1962/63	0		2,646,252	528,262		255,884	0		173,232
1963/64	0		2,323,763	0		1,304,815	0		447,530
1964/65	0		2,433,793	59,601		590,609	80,207		0
1965/66	0		2,708,941	254,799		273,583	0		0
1966/67	71,381		2,437,313	0		612,501	0		0
1967/68	0		2,712,420	10,628		218,166	0		0
1968/69	0		3,989,941	74,785		1,498,151	0		147,600
(2)
1960/61	0		1,084	11		150	0		0
1961/62	2		943	165		29	0		0
1962/63	0		2,339	108		510	0		34
1963/64	0		1,855	0		1,336	0		87
1964/65	0		2,366	12		179	16		0
1965/66	0		929	54		55	0		0
1966/67	14		1,372	0		157	0		0
1967/68	0		1,066	2		64	0		0
1968/69	0		1,262	15		463	0		29

78. Mr. L. G. MURRAY

—Reply standing over.

Personnel to assist the landdros of Rehoboth 79. Mr. L. G. MURRAY

asked the Minister of Rehoboth Affairs:

(1) What are the salaries and allowances payable to (a) clerical assistants and administrative personnel and (b) the senior agricultural official recently appointed or to be appointed to assist the landdros of Rehoboth;
(2) what is the estimated cost of the new administrative Offices to be constructed;
(3) what are the salaries and allowances of the (a) educational planner, (b) two school inspectors and (c) three assistant inspectors.

The MINISTER OF REHOBOTH AFFAIRS:

(1) Salaries:
1. (a) Administrative Officer — R3,600 ½ 150—4,800.
  Administrative Assistant — R1,200 ½ 120—3,000.
  
  Clerical Assistant — R1,020 ½ 90—1,200 ½ 120—2,040.
  
  Typists — R1,020 ½ 90—1,200 ½ 120—2,040.
2. (b) Senior Agricultural Officer —R3.600 ½ 120—4,200.

Allowances:

(i) Territorial Allowance.

Rate	Rate annum	Scope of application
I	R120	A full-time White Officer or employee whose wife and / or any other fully dependent person(s) is/are permanently resident in the territory.
II	R80	A full-time White Officer or employee with a partially dependent person(s) permanently resident in the territory.
III	R60	Any other full-time White Officer or employee: Provided that no allowance is payable to a married female Officer or employee whose husband is an Officer or employee or Railway employee in receipt of the territorial allowance at a rate higher than Rate III: Provided further that a married woman estranged from her husband/separated from bed and board, may be paid the allowance at Rate III if her husband is being paid the allowance at Rate III only.

(ii) Housing Allowance.
Single—R11,00 per month.

Married without children—R33.50 per month.

Married with one child—R42,00 per month.

Married with two or more children—R45,00 per month.

(2) According to a provisional calculation made by the Department of Public Works the cost of erection of new administrative Offices, will amount to R55,000.
(3) Salaries:
1. (a) Post does not exist.
2. (b) and (c): The Inspectorate for schools in the Territory of South West Africa consists of the following posts:
  1. 1 Chief Inspector of Education — R6,900 (fixed).
  2. 3 Inspector of Education — Fixed notches of either R6,000 or R6,300 or R6,600 according to the particular case.
  3. 1 Senior Inspector of Special Subjects — Fixed notches of either R5.400 or R5.700 or R6,000 according to the particular case.
  4. 4 Inspector/Inspectress of Special Subjects — Fixed notches of either R5,400 or R5,700 according to the particular case.
  5. 1 Assistant Inspector of Schools (Nama) R1,680 ½ 60—1,800 ½ 84 —2,640.
  6. The abovementioned Inspectorate is also responsible for the inspection duties in Rehoboth as the work attached to these inspections does not warrant a separate inspectorate for the Gebiet.
  7. Allowances:
  8. The allowances payable only to white Officers who occupy posts in the Inspectorate are similar to the allowances payable to white administrative personnel.

Purchasing of farms in Rehoboth 80. Mr. L. G. MURRAY

asked the Minister of Rehoboth Affairs:

(a) What was the purchase price paid by the State for eight farms purchased in Rehoboth and (b) what is the estimated cost of (i) fencing and (ii) provision of water.

The MINISTER OF REHOBOTH AFFAIRS:

(a) R1,090,831.62.
(b) (i) None.
(ii) R3,000.

Tsumis Teelstasie 81. Mr. L. G. MURRAY

asked the Minister of Rehoboth Affairs:

(a) What amount of capital has been invested in the Tsumis Teelstasie, (b) what is the annual (i) income and (ii) expenditure and (c) what is the estimated expenditure for (i) the provision of camps and (ii) buildings and improvements to be undertaken.

The MINISTER OF REHOBOTH AFFAIRS:

(a) R291,219.69 for purchase of land.
(b) (i) and (ii) None at present.
(c) (i) and (ii) are being investigated.

Rehoboth Development Corporation 82. Mr. L. G. MURRAY

asked the Minister of Rehoboth Affairs:

(1) (a) By whom is the share capital in the Rehoboth Development Corporation held, (b) on what basis are credit facilities provided or to be provided for Baster farmers and (c) what rate of interest is payable;
(2) how many farm units are farmed by Basters?

The MINISTER OF REHOBOTH AFFAIRS:

(1)
1. (a) The State in terms of section 17 (3) of Act No. 84 of 1969.
2. (b) and (c) Are being considered by the Board of Directors of the Corporation.
(2) 380.

83. Mr. W. T. WEBBER

—Reply standing over.

Whites and Non-Whites employed in Border industrial areas 84. Mr. W. T. WEBBER

asked the Minister of Economic Affairs:

What was the estimated total number of (a) Bantu, (b) Indian and Coloured and (c) white persons employed in each border industrial area as at 1st December, 1969.

The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC AFFAIRS:

(a), (b) and (c) For reasons I have often given in this House total employment statistics in border areas in the form requested by the hon. member are not available, but the following figures give an indication in this regard:

(1)
1. Number of employees in industry in the border and Bantu areas according to the 1959/60 industrial census:
2. (a) 54,941
3. (b) 9,132
4. (c) 11,163.
(2) Cumulative totals of estimated number of additional employees in border areas:
1. (a) 81,000
2. (b) 9,000
3. (c) 10,500.

Death of livestock through conditions at Johannesburg railway sidings, January, 1970 85. Mrs. H. SUZMAN

asked the Minister of Transport:

Whether steps have been taken to prevent a repetition of the conditions which led to the loss of livestock through thirst, starvation and overcrowding at Johannesburg railway sidings during January, 1970; if so, what steps, if not, why not.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

Presumably the hon. member refers to the circumstances which resulted from the congestion at the Newtown Abattoir during January, 1970.

The difficulties experienced were brought about by the inadequate kraal facilities provided by the Johannesburg Municipality and the consequent inability of consignees to take delivery of all livestock. The Railways Administration cannot, therefore, accept responsibility for the conditions which existed at the time.

The re-introduction of the quota system by the Livestock and Meat Industry Control Board should prevent a recurrence of similar conditions in the future.

Exhibition held by Non-White artist at Plettenberg Bay hotel for Whites 86. Mr. L. F. STOFBERG

asked the Minister of Community Development:

(1) Whether the recent exhibition of paintings by a non-White artist in a Plettenberg Bay hotel for Whites has been brought to his notice;
(2) whether permission for the exhibition was obtained from his Department?

The MINISTER OF COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT:

(1) No.
(2) Permission was not requested from my Department.

Western Cape Water Plan Commission 87. Mr. L. F. STOFBERG

asked the Minister of Water Affairs:

Whether, in view of the drought and the acute water shortage in large areas of the Boland, the completion of the report of the Western Cape Water Plan Commission can be expedited; if not, why not; if so, when will the report be made available to the public.

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS:

The Western Cape Water Plan Commission is fully occupied with its investigation and is working as fast as possible. It will serve no purpose to request the commission to expedite its investigation any more.

The particulars which may be of use to the public will be made available after receipt and study of the commission’s findings and recommendations.

Convictions i.r.o. offences under Immorality Act since 1966 88. Mr. L. F. STOFBERG

asked the Minister of Justice;

(a) What has the number of convictions been in respect of offences under the Immorality Act for each year since 1966, and
(b) in how many cases in each year were the sentences suspended.

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE:

(a)
1. Period 1.7.65—30.6.66—488
2. Period 1.7.66—30.6.67—693
3. Period 1.7.67—30.6.68—459

Statistics for the period 1.7.68—30.6.69 are not yet available.

(b) Statistics of this nature are not kept.

89. Mr. W. T. MARAIS

—Reply standing over.

Maintenance grants for White married and unmarried mothers 90. Mr. J. W. E. WILEY

asked the Minister of Social Welfare and Pensions:

(1) (a) How many White married and unmarried mothers are in receipt of maintenance grants (i) for themselves and (ii) for their children and (b) how many children have thus been maintained during each of the last three years;
(2) what are the amounts of maintenance grants paid to White married and unmarried mothers (i) for themselves and (ii) for their children if the fathers are unable to support them.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL WELFARE AND PENSIONS:

(1)
1. (a)
  1. (i) and (ii) A maintenance grant consisting of a parent’s allowance and a children’s allowance. If a children’s allowance is payable, the payment of an allowance to the parent depends on his means, and is not payable if the parent, in this case the mother, is in receipt of a social pension or grant.
  2. At present maintenance grants are payable to—
  3. 4,199 married mothers, and 5,289 unmarried mothers, i.e. widows and divorcees.
(b)

Year	Number of children
1967	18,907
1968	20,674
1969	23,100

(2)
1. (i) R33 per month plus a special additional amount of R10 per month to unmarried parent.
2. (ii) R8 per month in respect of each of the first two children.
  - R6 per month in respect of the third and successive children.
  - R2 per month bonus in respect of each child.
  - R2 per month in respect of each child attending primary school; and
  - R4 per month in respect of each child attending secondary school.

Maintenance grants for Coloured married and unmarried mothers 91. Mr. J. W. E. WILEY

asked the Minister of Coloured Affairs:

(1) (a) How many Coloured married and unmarried mothers are in receipt of maintenance grants (i) for themselves and (ii) for their children and (b) how many children have thus been maintained during each of the last three years;
(2) what are the amounts of maintenance grants paid to Coloured married and unmarried mothers (i) for themselves and (ii) for their children if the fathers are unable to support them.

The MINISTER OF COLOURED AFFAIRS:

Particulars for the Republic and South West Africa are given separately:

Republic

(1)
1. (a) (i) and (ii) Particulars are not available as function has been decentralized to 13 regional Offices as from 18th July, 1969. The total number of mothers (married and unmarried) who are at present in receipt of maintenance allowances amount to 15,850. Accordingly this number of files will have to be checked at the regional offices, with the result that the desired particulars cannot be acquired within the time available.
2. (b) As stated in 1 (a) also these particulars are distributed amongst the 13 regional Offices and particulars will accordingly not be obtainable within the time available.
(2)
1. (i) The basic monthly parent allowance (married and unmarried) amounts to R6, which can in certain selected cases, and having regard to the means test, be increased by means of additional allowances and bonusses up to a maximum of R19.25.
2. (ii): Married mothers.
3. 1st child—R3 p.m.
4. 2nd child—R3 p.m.
5. 3rd child—R2 p.m.
6. 4th child—R1 p.m.
7. Unmarried mothers.
8. 1st child—R3 p.m.
9. Further, none except in extraordinary cases, which are determined according to merit.
10. (A maximum of R9 per month for 4 or more children is paid in the case of married mothers only.)

South West Africa

(1)
1. (a)
  1. (i) Married 25
  2. Unmarried 82
  3. (ii) Married 35
  4. Unmarried 82
2. (b) Approximately 370 for each of the past 3 years.
(2)
1. (i) Married: A total amount of R106 per month plus a total amount of R306 per month in bonuses.
  Unmarried: A total amount of R615 per month plus a total amount of R1,190 per month in bonuses.
2. (ii) Married: A total amount of R308 per month.
  Unmarried: A total amount of R560 per month.

Maintenance grants for Indian married and unmarried mothers 92. Mr. J. W. E. WILEY

asked the Minister of Indian Affairs:

(1) (a) How many Indian married and unmarried mothers are in receipt of maintenance grants (i) for themselves and (ii) for their children and (b) how many children have thus been maintained during each of the last three years.
(2) what are the amounts of the maintenance grants paid to Indian married and unmarried mothers (i) for themselves and (ii) for their children if the fathers are unable to support them.

The MINISTER OF INDIAN AFFAIRS:

The computer calculating grants payable to Indians is not programmed to produce an analyses such as that requested by the honourable member. The capitation grant payable to a mother for her maintenance and that payable in respect of her child or children are combined and assessed as one Maintenance Grant. Separate statistics for married and unmarried mothers are not available but on 31st December, 1969, 8,426 Indian maintenance grantees were paid R2,155,136 which averages R22.25 per family per month.

Maintenance grants for Bantu married and unmarried mothers 93. Mr. J. W. E. WILEY

asked the Minister of Bantu Administration and Development:

(1) (a) How many Bantu married and unmarried mothers are in receipt of maintenance grants (i) for themselves and (ii) for their children and (b) how many children have thus been maintained during each of the last three years;
(2) what are the amounts of maintenance grants paid to Bantu married and unmarried mothers (i) for themselves and (ii) for their children if the fathers are unable to support them.

The MINISTER OF BANTU ADMINISTRATION AND DEVELOPMENT:

(1)
1. (a) As the records of the Department do not distinguish between those cases where Bantu mothers receive maintenance grants for themselves and those cases where they receive the grants for their children, it will only be possible to furnish separate figures after extensive reference to the case files which is not considered justified in the circumstances. 508 Bantu married and 1,583 Bantu unmarried mothers receive such grants.
2. (b) 1967—6,700; 1968—6,900; 1969 6,400.
(2)
1. (i) Up to R24 per year depending on the means of the applicant plus a bonus of R30 per year and an additional bonus of R21 per year for single mothers.
2. (ii) R18 per year for the first and second child and R15 per year for each of the third and fourth children plus a bonus of R6 per child per year.

Vacancies and staff losses in S.A. Defence Force 94. Brig. H. J. BRONKHORST

asked the Minister of Defence:

(1) How many Permanent Force vacancies are there in the Army, Air Force and Navy, respectively, for (a) Officers of the rank of commandant and above, (b) other Officers and (c) non-commissioned Officers;
(2) how many (a) resignations, (b) dismissals and (c) retirements on pension took place in the Army, Air Force and Navy, respectively, in respect of (i) Officers and (ii) other ranks during 1969.

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE:

			Army	Air Force	Navy
(1)	(a)		118	—	19
	(b)		499	92	109
	(c)		2,299	1,113	1,535
(2)	(a)	(i)	67	44	11
		(ii)	400	447	217
	(b)	(i)	1	—	—
		(ii)	114	90	83
	(c)	(i)	27	7	1
		(ii)	29	21	8

Notes

1. 2,442 civilians are employed temporarily against the vacancies as indicated in 1 (b) and (c).
2. There are at present 383 Permanent Force candidate Officers and 2.805 apprentices, who will be absorbed in the vacancies, as indicated in 1 (b) and (c) on completion of their training.
3. The Permanent Force establishment has increased considerably over the past two years as a result of Civil Service inspections and the militarizations of posts of the former Defence Secretariate. It is obvious that the new vacancies will only be filled gradually.

Nomination dates for general election of members of House of Assembly and Provincial Councils 95. Mr. J. A. MARAIS

asked the Minister of the interior:

Whether a date or dates for the nomination of candidates for the general election of members of the House of Assembly and for the general election of Provincial Councillors his or have been decided upon; if so, what date or dates.

The MINISTER OF THE INTERIOR:

No.

Replies standing over from Tuesday, 3rd February, 1970.

Job reservation

The MINISTER OF LABOUR replied to Question 12, by Mr. E. G. Malan:

Question:

(1) (a) What categories of workers of each race are subject to regulations regarding job reservation and (b) what is the estimated number of workers of each race in each category subject to such reservation;
(2) whether he has taken any steps since 1st January, 1969 to alter the extent to which job reservation is applied; if so, (a) to what extent, (b) in regard to which categories and races, (c) what is the estimated number of workers of each race in each category which will be involved and (d) when is it expected that the regulations regarding these measures will be published; if not, why not.

Reply:

(1)
1. (a) The details are as follows:
  Determination No. 2—Government Notice R1867 dated 6.12.63.
  
  Motor vehicle driving for Whites in the cleansing department of the Durban municipal undertaking.
  
  Determination No. 3—Government Notice R1868 dated 6.12.63.
  
  Iron, Steel, Engineering and Metallurgical Industries—Republic of South Africa. Certain work, as defined in the determination, for Whites. (The provisions of the determination have, however, been suspended for the duration of the industrial council agreement.)
  
  Determination No. 4—Government Notice R1869 dated 6.12.63.
  
  The work of traffic police, ambulance drivers/attendants and firemen for Whites in the Cape Town municipal undertaking.
  
  Determination No. 5—Government Notice R1870 dated 6.12.63.
  
  The operation of passenger lifts by Whites in certain undertakings, industries, trades and occupations, as set out in the determination, in the municipal areas of Bloemfontein, Johannesburg and Pretoria.
  
  Determination No. 6—Government Notice R1871 dated 6.12.63.
  
  Skilled work in the building industry, as defined in the determination, for Whites in the Transvaal and Orange Free State.
  
  Determination No. 7—Government Notice R1872 dated 6.12.63.
  
  Iron, Steel, Engineering and Metallurgical Industries—Republic of South Africa. Certain work, as defined in the determination, for Whites. (The provisions of the determination have, however, been suspended for the duration of the industrial council agreement.)
  
  Determination No. 8—Government Notice R1873 dated 6.12.63.
  
  Clothing Industry—Republic of South Africa. Certain work, as defined in the determination, for Whites in Transvaal, and in other areas, on a percentage basis for Whites and Coloureds. (This determination superseded Determination No. 1.)
  
  Determination No. 9—Government Notice R1874 dated 6.12.63.
  
  Motor vehicle driving for Whites in the health department of the Springs municipal undertaking.
  
  Determination No. 10—Government Notice R1875 dated 6.12.63.
  
  The work of drivers and conductors for Whites in the Road Passenger Transport Undertaking, Cape Peninsula.
  
  Determination No. 11—Government Notice R1876 dated 6.12.63.
  
  Motor transport driving for Whites in certain industries on the Free State Goldfields.
  
  Determination No. 12—Government Notice R1504 dated 14.9.62.
  
  The work of butcher, handyman, motor vehicle driver and cleaner for Whites in Abattoirs, and in the Wholesale Meat Trade on the Witwatersrand and Pretoria.
  
  Determination No. 13—Government Notice R1861 dated 9.11.62.
  
  Various skilled occupations in the building industry, as defined in the determination, for Whites in certain areas in the Cape Province and Natal.
  
  Determination No. 14—Government Notice R84 dated 18.1.63.
  
  The work of barman in white public bars for Whites in the municipal areas of Durban and Pietermaritzburg.
  
  Determination No. 15—Government Notice R897 dated 19.6.64.
  
  Motor vehicle driving for Whites in the cartage of bulk supplies of petroleum products, and goods in the goods transportation trade, to and from the Durban Harbour, and in certain other industries, as defined in the determination, in the magisterial district of Durban for Whites and Coloureds.
  
  Determination No. 16—Government Notice R1597 dated 16.10.64.
  
  Motor Assembly Industry—Republic of South Africa. Supervisory and control work as well as certain welding work for Whites except in the Blackheath area. Supervisory and control work and all skilled work in the Blackheath area for Whites and Coloureds. All other work in the Blackheath area for Coloureds. In certain other areas reservation of work on a percentage basis for Whites.
  
  Determination No. 17—Government Notice R1458 dated 24.9.65.
  
  The work of waiter or waitress, wine steward or page for Coloureds in the Western Cape and Natal, and the work of bedroom attendant, barboy and handyman in the Western Cape for Coloureds.
  
  Determination No. 18—Government Notice R124 dated 28.1.66.
  
  Leather Industry—Republic of South Africa. Certain operations, as defined in the determination, for Whites and Coloureds.
  
  Determination No. 19—Government Notice R1690 dated 28.10.66.
  
  Driving of motor vehicles, road construction machines and earth-moving machines for Whites in the Transvaal, Orange Free State and Natal.
  
  Determination No. 20—Government Notice R1168 dated 4.8.67.
  
  Furniture Industry—Republic of South Africa. The work of foreman, Assistant foreman, supervisor and machine maintenance mechanic for Whites.
  
  Determination No. 21—Government Notice R145 dated 2.2.68.
  
  Motor vehicle driving in certain industries and areas in the Transvaal and Orange Free State for Whites.
  
  Determination No. 22—Government Notice R977 dated 30.5.68.
  
  Motor vehicle driving for Whites in the undertaking conducted by Union Liquid Air Company in Transvaal and Orange Free State.
  
  Determination No. 23—Government Notice R1086 dated 21.6.68.
  
  The work of barman in white public bars for Whites in the Western Cape.
  
  Determination No. 24—Government Notice R1780 dated 4.10.68.
  
  The work of barman in white public bars for Whites in East London.
  
  Determination No. 25—Government Notice R980 dated 13.6.69.
  
  Motor vehicle driving for Whites in the service of the Divisional Council of Port Elizabeth.
2. (b) Information as to the number of workers at present employed in the occupations concerned is not available.
(2) No, job reservation is still being applied wherever necessary. As indicated in the reply to paragraph (1) (a), a new determination (No. 25) was made during 1969. A new reference was also issued to the Industrial Tribunal for an investigation into sampling,-surveying and ventilation work in the Mining Industry. The Tribunal is at present also finalizing its report and recommendation in pursuance of a reference issued during 1968 in respect of the Motor Assembly Industry in the magisterial district of Pretoria.

Funds made available for provision of housing for Bantu persons

The MINISTER OF BANTU ADMINISTRATION AND DEVELOPMENT replied to Question 13, by Mr. E. G. Malan:

Question:

(1) What is the total amount made available for Bantu housing in each of the past five years;
(2) what amount was made available in each of these years for this purpose by (a) his Department, (b) the Bantu Trust, (c) the various development corporations and (d) other central and provincial bodies;
(3) what amount was made available in each of these years for this purpose to (a) the Government of the Transkei (b) other Bantu authorities or bodies in the Bantu homelands and (c) local authorities in White areas.

Reply

1965/1966	R39,855,698
1966/1967	R34,933,808
1967/1968	R24,635,083
1968/1969	R36,824,537
1969/1970	R34,667,595

(2)
1. (a) Nil
(b)

1965/1966	R32,301,915
1966/1967	R26,966,074
1967/1968	R14,653,147
1968/1969	R25,687,240
1969/1970	R24,852,595

1965/1966	R 122,067
1966/1967	R 100,480
1967/1968	R 148,299
1968/1969	R76,297
1969/1970	Information not yet available

1965/1966	R7,441.716
1966/1967	R7,867,281
1967/1968	R9,833,637
1968/1969	R11,061,000
1969/1970	R9,835,000

(3)
1. (a) Information not available.
2. (b) Nil.
3. (c)

1965/1966	R7,441,716
1966/1967	R7,867,281
1967/1968	R9,833,637
1968/1969	R11,051,000
1969/1970	R9,835,000

In addition, loans made by the South African Bantu Trust to the City Councils of Durban and East London amount to R10,453,178.

Agencies for White-controlled industries inhomelands

The MINISTER OF BANTU ADMINISTRATION AND DEVELOPMENT replied to Question 14, by Mr. E. G. Malan:

Question:

(1) On what date was the announcement made of the system of agencies for White-controlled industries in the homelands;
(2) (a) how many agreements have been entered into with White agents for the establishment of such industries, (b) what is the nature of each industry and (c) what is the estimated number of (i) White and (ii) Bantu workers employed in these industries.

Reply:

(1) This is an old system which was brought to the fore in the past year or two.
(2)
1. (a) Particulars are not yet available in respect of the total number. During the past year 5 agreements were entered into.
2. (b) The said agreements were in respect of three timber mills, one stone quarry and one bag factory.
3. (c) In respect of the said agreements only the estimated numbers are as follows:
  1. (i) 38 White workers.
  2. (ii) 771 Bantu workers.

FIRST READING OF BILLS

The following Bills were read a First Time:

Railways and Harbours Part Appropriation Bill.

Railways and Harbours Additional Appropriation Bill.

Post Office Part Appropriation Bill.

NO-CONFIDENCE DEBATE

(Resumed)

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Mr. Speaker, at the start I wish to move, as a further amendment—

To omit all the words after “That” and to substitute “this House reaffirms its full confidence in the National Party and the manner in which it governs South Africa and in which it deals with the internal and external problems of the country”.

Yesterday evening I had the opportunity to refer briefly to certain urgent matters. Of course, I was asked by my hon. friend the hon. the Leader of the Opposition to reply to the charge sheet which he brought in against me, my Government and the National Party when he moved this motion of no confidence. Among other things, the hon. the Leader of the Opposition levelled the customary reproach at me that I am a weak leader. Let me tell the hon. the Leader that if he glances at Hansard, he will see that he levelled the same reproach at my predecessors. They were better men than I; how much the more, then, would he not level this reproach at me? The question of whether I am a weak leader or whether the hon. member is a good leader is not really something the hon. member and I can settle between ourselves. It is a matter which only the electorate of South Africa can decide. As for me, I want to say that it is with great confidence that I leave this matter entirely in the hands of the electorate. In the meantime, I do not have the impression that the voters outside like the hon. member more than they like me, since he has now placed this matter on a personal level. I do not know how things are going with the hon. member’s meetings, but I am quite satisfied with the way in which the public are attending my meetings to hear my standpoint and that of my party. I was particularly struck by this when I went to Durban to address a public meeting in the city hall there. I drove from the Louis Botha Airport to the city hall. On a number of poles there were two placards, one above the other—the one announcing the hon. member’s meeting at the top, and the other announcing my meeting below it. It amused me so much that I asked a friend to take a photograph of them for me. The placard announcing my meeting read—

Stadsaal: Openbare vergadering. City Hall: Public Meeting. 22 September/September 22nd, 8 nm./p.m.

In addition there was the customary photograph fitting to the occasion. That was all. The hon. member’s placard was extremely interesting. The customary photograph was on a television screen. All that Stood underneath it was this—

Div Montclair Hall/Saal Band, Bar, Braai

[Laughter.] I shall gladly send it to my hon. friend for perusal. I just want to say, Sir, seeing that the hon. member has now made a personal attack on me, that it has never been necessary for me to try to ensure a full attendance at my meetings by getting a-“band”. It has never been necessary for me to have a “bar”, and it has never been necessary for me to be “braai-ed”. I just want to say in passing, since the hon. member has now thrown matters onto the basis of our respective personalities, that I find this surprisingly interesting.

But then the hon. member went further and stated that I had called this election because I was afraid. It was a panic reaction on my part. But, Sir, there is nothing new in this. The hon. member is not only accusing me now; he accused my worthy predecessor, the late Dr. Verwoerd, in precisely the same words. I shall quote to the hon. member from the Sunday Times of 1st October, 1961. He then reacted to the then election announcement by Dr. Verwoerd as follows—

Sir De Villiers described the election on 18th October as “the frightened election”, because of the Government’s fear that it would not be returned to power if it held the election on the normal date in 1963. Dr. Verwoerd knew that he could not sustain the bluff of apartheid much longer.

Then we punished him more severely in that election than Graeme Pollock punishes a cricket ball, and then we punished him again in 1966. But after all those things the hon. member is now making precisely the same accusation. It might interest the hon. member for Yeoville to know that in that same speech in 1961 the hon. the Leader of the Opposition put precisely the same two questions to Dr. Verwoerd which he has now put to me, i.e. in regard to the “contributory pension scheme” and the “sound family health scheme”, as well as in regard to “better education and increased security”. I shall deal with this later, as may be opportune.

The hon. member will of course understand now that I cannot devote all my time to him, for a new leader has appeared in this House. I must devote my time to him as well. Indeed, Sir, I must take notice of the new leader, the hon. member for Ermelo, for this is not an everyday leader. This is a leader with a distinction. This is a leader with two testimonials, a requested testimonial from an unnamed minister of religion, and another testimonial from a well-known Judge. Consequently, I must also devote attention to this hon. member. But I shall deal first with the less important accusations the hon. the Leader of the Opposition levelled at me.

The hon. member accused me of changing the terms of reference of the Judge who was entrusted with the inquiry into the security position. I would be pleased if the hon. member for Yeoville would allow the hon. the Leader of the Opposition to give me his attention. The hon. the Leader of the Opposition accused me of having wrongly changed the terms of reference. On what grounds does the hon. member base his charge? There are no legal grounds for it, nor did the hon. member advance any grounds for his charge. But what did we have here now? I would be pleased if the hon. member would furnish me with a reply to that question. Here we had a commission which had to institute an inquiry into the security set-up, the composition and everything related to that, because, and I also stated this in public, I was concerned that South Africa should have only the best security set-up. We who are intimately concerned with this matter, cannot form an objective opinion as to whether there are not better methods to ensure the security of South Africa. It is not only South Africa that has taken such a step. Many countries, Australia, for example, have taken the step of appointing a Judge to perform precisely the same task. While this Judge was engaged on his task, the hon. member for Ermelo made accusations to the effect that the amount which had been made available was not the R4 million for which provision had been made on the Estimates, but that it was closer to R50 million. What other deduction could anyone have made from that, but that the hon. member for Ermelo was blazing it abroad that large-scale deception was being practised here; not only deception of the public, but also deception of Parliament. It means that the Prime Minister and Parliament were giving out that only R4 million was being appropriated, but that the amount in fact came to R50 million. Does the hon. the Leader of the Opposition expect me to have left it at that? Does the hon. the Leader of the Opposition expect me, taking into consideration our security position, and taking into consideration how delicate these matter are. to have simply dismissed it with a shrug of the shoulders? Here a responsible …, no, I may not use the word, here an hon. member comes along, who previously served in the Cabinet for many years, and makes this allegation. I had every right to refer it to a Judge. I want to state here now that if the same circumstances were to repeat themselves, I would again refer allegations of this nature to a Judge. The hon. the Leader of the Opposition, in the same way as I and any other member, is concerned that there should be no corruption or any trace of corruption. If such charges are levelled, they must therefore be investigated. I am astonished that the hon. Leader of the Opposition is levelling a reproach at me because of this. For what did I do? By advising the State President, I had that charge investigated in public by a Judge, and the witnesses were called. It is part of history now that the brave member for Ermelo was not prepared to substantiate under oath his statement in which he had uttered an untruth in public. In passing, I just want to draw attention to the Judge’s remark, i.e. that there is not an atom of truth in the allegations. That was the language of the court. The ordinary person would say that the hon. member for Ermelo had told a lie.

I should also like to point out in passing that the court stated that in so far as the hon. member for Ermelo had said that he had heard it from others, it was very clear, even from the finding of the court, that the court doubted very much whether he could have heard it from another person. I do not know of any one outside an asylum from whom he could have heard it. I think, and I charge the hon. member for Ermelo with having done this, that he either sucked it out of his thumb or sucked it out of his deputy leader’s thumb. I therefore reject the accusation made by the hon. the Leader of the Opposition because I had had that matter investigated. The hon. the Leader of the Opposition is aware of the fact that various complaints have been made against the Bureau for State Security. If the hon. the Leader is not satisfied with that aspect in regard to which the hon. member for Durban (North) has just informed him, he can put questions to me. I shall place myself at his disposal. The hon. the Leader is aware of the kind of gossip about this Bureau which is being bruited abroad. I want to refer to two of these stories, because I should like to have this placed on record. The staff of this Bureau, from its head all the way down, have no powers of arrest. Nor do they have any powers of detention whatsoever. Its task is the collection of information. In that regard section 29 was inserted. It would be as well and fitting that I should say a few words about section 29 on this occasion. In terms of our common law any head of a State Department, even a subordinate head, had the right to issue a certificate which provided that evidence in regard to a certain matter could not be given, and to present this certificate to the court. During my period of Office as Minister of Justice I myself once issued such a certificate. I want to illustrate the case to the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. The facts of the case were that a person had written a letter to the Department in which he had made certain charges against a messenger of the court. The messenger of the court came to hear about this. He demanded that the letter be produced. In fact, my private secretary was summonsed to come and produce that letter in court, for this man wanted to bring a libel action against that member of the public as a result of what he had heard. I issued a certificate to the effect that it was not in the interests of the public that the contents of that letter be disclosed. I did so for the simple reason that it is the elementary right of members of the public to complain about officials. If letters in which members of the public complain about officials can be produced, then you are depriving the public of the feeling of liberty or the right to complain about officials. This is also as I stated it to the court. The hon. member for Durban (North) is aware of that Transvaal case. The Transvaal court acknowledged that I was right. However, as time went by, different court decisions were given. What it boiled down to eventually was that one set of court decisions stated that the Minister and the head of a department had the power to withhold evidence, while the other set of decisions stated that it was the courts that could decide on the matter, and not the Minister or the head of a department. Then that clash arose in an Appeal Court case. Normally it went to the Department of Justice and normally the Department of Justice settled the case by means of section 29. But section 29 has nothing whatsoever to do with the Bureau for State Security as such. It was not introduced as a result of the establishment of that Bureau and it has nothing to do with it. It was a question of lack of clarity which arose as a result of decisions by Supreme Courts in regard to what the common law position in this connection should be.

*Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Was the position not made quite clear by the Appeal Court case of Van der Linde and Calitz?

*The PRIME MINISTER:

No. Unfortunately the Calitz case which came before the Appeal Court gave a decisive ruling in regard to that particular case only. The cardinal principle remained undecided. If the hon. member does not want to believe me, he can go and consult any jurist in this regard, even the hon. member for Durban (North).

*Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

He does not agree with you.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

But then you must get another advocate. That is the background in regard to this matter and with that background it astonishes me that there should have been so many personal attacks.

Now there was of course once more an attack by the hon. member for Ermelo.

An HON. MEMBER:

[Inaudible.]

*The PRIME MINISTER:

No, the hon. member is writing his political last will and testament. He made another attack. And I do not blame him for not wanting to look up, because the hon. member cannot look one in the eyes.

*Mr. S. F. KOTZE:

He is not wearing his dark glasses.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

He dare not look one in the eyes. He made another attack at Witbank, which in essence amounted to this, that I could now take that R4 million for myself and nobody would even know about it. It is such a dirty insinuation that no decent person would take any notice of it. I want to go further and say that no decent person would make such an allegation on a public platform.

As I have said, that commission was appointed because I was desirous of giving South Africa only the best in that sphere.

But, Mr. Speaker, the second charge the hon. member made against me was that I had allegedly stated in 1969 that all the members of my party at the time subscribed to the policy of my party. Now the facts have shown that I was wrong. I want to make the hon. the Leader of the Opposition a gift of this argument. I was wrong and he is right in this connection. I was wrong for the simple reason that I believed at the time that I could rely on the honesty and integrity of certain people. That is why I gave that assurance. To-day I am painfully aware of the fact that I cannot rely on honesty and integrity as far as some gentlemen in this House are concerned. I gave my country and my people that assurance at the time because all the matters in regard to which disputes subsequently arose had continually been discussed in party bodies and because votes had often been taken on these matters at congresses and other party occasions. At the 1966 congress the hon. member for Ermelo declared that I would never have to look behind me to see where he stood. On that occasion he thanked me and said that he would always be behind me.

*Dr. A. HERTZOG:

Then I did not yet realize what you had said.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

All the hon. member for Ermelo had omitted to say was what he would have in his hand when he was behind me. At the 1967 congress those matters were discussed and resolutions were taken in regard to them. At the 1968 congress votes were also taken on these matters, and I now come to the 1969 congress. I relied upon the honesty and integrity of people who had voted for all these things on various occasions. I relied on the integrity of the hon. member for Ermelo. After I had spoken for an hour and a half in stating the National Party’s policy in regard to the English and Afrikaans speaking people, he rose from his bench and stated that no man inside or outside this House could state it better than I had stated it that day. This stands recorded in Hansard.

*Dr. A. HERTZOG:

So what?

*The PRIME MINISTER:

The hon. member now asks me, “So what?” But he is opposing me now and says that this is one of the reasons why he established a party, and that our policy in this connection is wrong.

*Dr. A. HERTZOG:

That is not true.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

If the hon. member denies it, he must go and consult a psychiatrist, and if the psychiatrist finds nothing wrong, that psychiatrist must go and consult someone.

Dr. A. HERTZOG:

[Inaudible.]

*The PRIME MINISTER:

But surely we are not playing children’s games now; we are dealing with very serious matters. That speech dealt with co-operation between Afrikaans and English speaking people and I do not want to reiterate it here to-day. It is recorded in Hansard. What did the hon. member do then? He issued a pamphlet and attacked the hon. member for Umlazi, Mr. Lewis, by name and Professor Horwood here in this House. What kind of manliness is this if the hon. member for Ermelo had the opportunity of saying that Mr. Lewis should not be admitted to the party? I gave him the opportunity of voting on this matter, of voting “Yes” or “No” on this matter. Why did he not have the courage to vote “No”? Why did he not have the courage to say, “No”? Why does he now bicker in the House of Assembly and outside about this matter, while he had had a full say and while he knew that if one single man had voted against Mr. Lewis’s admission in the caucus, as I put it, he would not have been admitted to the National Party? Why did he not have the courage to get to his feet on that occasion? Nor did he have the courage to say a word to indicate that he did not agree with this at any party occasion where policy was discussed. I am asking the hon. member what conclusion I must arrive at from his actions. Was there nothing wrong, or did he know that it was wrong but did not have the courage to say a word against it? In plain Afrikaans we have a word for a man who does not have the courage to do something. I am not going to use it here, because it is unparliamentary, but the word has four letters and begins with an “m”. I want to make the statement here, and we shall still face each other across the floor of this House, to the hon. member for Ermelo that on no party occasion, either in private or in public, did he utter a single word to me as Leader of the party to the effect that there was any item of policy of the party or application of the policy with which he was not in agreement. What he did in fact say was directed against the Press. On that score he had a great deal to say and covered a wide field, but since he established his party he no longer has anything to say about it, for then he would have to offend his mouthpiece, the Sunday Times. Since that date the hon. member has had nothing to say, but that was the smokescreen he threw up at the time. But the hon. member did not say a single word on any occasion about policy or the application of policy. And if the hon. member now disputes this, then this is his opportunity to put a question to me in this regard, and I am readily available to reply to that question.

But let us examine the question of co-operation on account of which the hon. member found it necessary to establish a party. It was under discussion at the Transvaal congress and the hon. member voted for it, together with everybody else. The question of diplomats was discussed there and the hon. member was in agreement on that, together with the hon. members for Wonderboom and Innesdal. Since they now disagree with the Government, I am asking the hon. member for Ermelo: When did you disagree, at the Transvaal congress or only subsequently? When did you discover that you disagreed with the National Party? Surely that is a fair question. I will not place you under oath. I am simply asking the question, and I will not place you under oath. You can simply tell me whether you knew at the Transvaal congress already or whether it was only afterwards that you knew, for if the hon. member already knew this at the Transvaal congress, why did he not speak up when this matter was being discussed and he had been specifically invited by the Leader in the Transvaal to do so?

The same applies to immigration. Is it possible for one to be so ridiculous as the hon. member for Wonderboom? The motion on immigration was before the Transvaal congress, and the hon. member for Wonderboom stated: If you accept the amendment I have moved, I shall vote for this. And we accepted the amendment, and the hon. member became angry about the amendment and went and established a party because of it. Can one be so ridiculous?

Then there was the question of sport, and this we have debated here. I want to make this accusation again, and in order to set the mind of the hon. member for Ermelo at ease I want to repeat that I will not place him under oath and ask him to take an oath, because the hon. member is allergic to that. I just want to ask him why, since it is apparently one of the main planks in the platform of his new party, did he not raise this matter with me or with other leaders of the party on one single party occasion? When did the hon. member find out about Maoris, before or after he established his party?

I want to go further. Our party leaders discussed this matter fully in all its full consequences where the hon. member for Ermelo was present. He sat there when the party leaders—because the Cabinet does not discuss State matters only; the Cabinet also meets as party leaders—formulated this policy. The hon. member helped to formulate it, and he agreed that it should be raised by me here in parliament, even after it had been discussed for days in the caucus. But the hon. member never once opened his mouth to utter one single objection against it. This was the case from 1967 till to-day. But now the hon. member comes along and establishes a party and states that he has established that party because he wants to follow the course adopted by the late Dr. Verwoerd. Mr. Strydom and Dr. Malan. I want to tell the hon. member that this is the kind of member he is: If I should die tomorrow or the day after, he would stand by me. There is no doubt at all about that. But, Sir, let us consider for a moment this member’s party and let us consider some of his candidates and the statements made by them. They telephone me and tell me for the sake of interest that his mouthpiece on the East Rand, the Brakpan Herald, has announced that a certain Mr. Joos du Plessis has been put up as my opposing candidate by the member for Ermelo. The four previous candidates put up by him have disappeared, and now he has come forward with Mr. Joos du Plessis. This is the man who took a beating at the referendum in 1960 because he wanted Bantu and Coloured persons to vote in the referendum as well. In 1966 he was to have been the candidate of the Van der Merwes against me, but he only reached the door of the nomination room and then he did not know how one nominated someone and turned away. He has now been nominated by the member. These are the kind of people they are now bringing forward to be their candidate.

*Mr. S. F. KOTZE:

But they have no others.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

The hon. member for Wonderboom knows this man well, because I quoted at length from the report of the court case when I held a meeting for the hon. member for Wonderboom against Mr. Piet Bekker, with whom he is now sitting in one party.

Sir, let us now glance for a moment at the statements made by some of these candidates of the hon. member for Ermelo. Let us take a look at Professor Weiss, Mr. Beetge, Mr. Jooste, Mr. Mills and Mr. Pretorius. It is very interesting …

*An HON. MEMBER:

Paul Marais.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

No. we do not even mention Paul Marais. Let us just see now —for the public outside is concerned with this —whether there is any substance in the assertion that the National Party, as it is sitting on this side of the House, has deviated from the policy of former National Party leaders. Sir, the candidate of the Hertzog Party in Boks-burg is a Mr. Pretorius. In regard to this Mr. Pretorius the publication of the member for Ermelo. i.e. Die Afrikaner, to-day writes the following (translation)—

Public Service officials like Mr. Pik Botha, the Vorster candidate in Wonderboom, and Mr. Nothnagel, the provincial candidate, are being granted special leave to participate openly in politics. H.N.P. supporters like Mr. S. G. Pretorius, a candidate of the H.N.P. in Boksburg, are being kicked out.

The statement is made in this H.N.P. publication, which has now appeared upon the scene to tell the truth—and the hon. member for Ermelo is the great man of truth—that this Mr. Pretorius, who is a member of the Public Service, has been kicked out: Why does the hon. member for Ermelo allow Mr. Willie Lubbe to tell such a public lie? Surely it is not Calvinistic; it is not even honourable to allow such a lie to be told, because Pretorius has in fact not been kicked out. In the same way as Mr. Pik Botha and Mr. Nothnagel gave notice that they were resigning from the Public Ser vice, so Mr. Pretorius gave notice of his resignation, and he resigned with effect from 1st February. And now the great man of truth comes along and states, through the medium of his newspaper, that this Mr. Pretorius was kicked out. But let us see who this Mr. Pretorius is. Sir, I am not going to tell you what I say Mr. Pretorius is; I shall let Mr. Pretorius speak for himself, and I am quoting verbatim what he said at the meeting held in Brakpan by the member for Ermelo and the member for Innesdal. There this Mr. Pretorius appeared on the platform. This is what he said (translation)—

I resigned from the National Party in 1963 because I realized then already that the National Party was betraying us.

The hon. member for Innesdal, according to what I have been told, applauded loudly. [Interjections.] Yes, and in the transcript of this it is stated: “Booing and cheering.”

*Mr. J. A. MARAIS:

Am I mentioned by name as having cheered?

*The PRIME MINISTER:

I have heard that the hon. member cheered at this. Does the hon. member deny that he said this in front of him?

*Mr. J. A. MARAIS:

I deny that I cheered. [Interjections.]

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Does the hon. member deny that he said this?

*Mr. J. A. MARAIS:

Why do you say that I cheered?

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Because I have been informed that this gave you great satisfaction. [Interjections.] If the hon. member wants to get hot under the collar now, he must remember that Mr. Pretorius said that he had resigned from the National Party in 1963 because it was betraying the people. Why are you making him a candidate in Boksburg? But Mr. Pretorius went on. This man, who stated that Dr. Verwoerd in 1963 was a traitor, for he was then the Leader of the National Party, says—

In 1967 I joined the Conservative National Party because to my mind it was the party of the Afrikaner. I was elected to the head committee and subsequently became chairman. When the Herstigte Nasionale Party was established. I was at the congress. I felt at home there. I was among my own people, Afrikaners who were not ashamed to speak Afrikaans. They were not afraid to air their opinions. We thoroughly enjoyed talking to one another.

So much for Mr. Pretorius. Let us now look at the candidate of the Herstigte Nasionale Party, Mr. Beetge.

Dr. E. L. FISHER:

Are you going through the whole list? There are 42 of them.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Yes, this is my time, and I shall deal with this. [Interjections.]

*Mr. SPEAKER:

Order!

*The PRIME MINISTER:

The hon. member need not be afraid. I shall still come to his Leader and his party, and, if need be, if he is important enough, I shall come to him as well.

Mr. W. V. RAW:

Is this still a private fight?

*Mr. SPEAKER:

Order!

*The PRIME MINISTER:

This candidate of the Herstigte Nasionale Party, Mr. Beetge, held a meeting. I was not aware of it, nor did I see any statement in regard to the meeting until I received a report on it from the general secretary of the South African Iron and Steel and Related Industries Union. It is not necessary to relate what Mr. Beetge said, but it is necessary to read what the Steelworkers and Related Industries Union wrote in regard to this matter, under a covering letter from Mr. L. J. van den Bergh, the general secretary. This is what Mr. Van den Bergh wrote (translation)—

Dear Sir, In consequence of a report in the Pretoria News of 28th January, 1970, in which an account is given of a speech made in Hercules the previous evening by Mr. G. A. Beetge, my committee has instructed me to inform you that Mr. Beetge was speaking on his own behalf and not on behalf of the right-wing trade union movement. My committee does not agree with him that work reservation is political deceit.

That is apparently what Mr. Beetge had said. The letter continues—

On the contrary, my committee is satisfied that work reservation determinations have in fact prevented certain industries from becoming completely Black.

He then goes on—

My committee is also extremely unhappy about Mr. Beetge’s interpretation of the events concerning Republic Day. Mr. Fouché and Mr. Ferreira, who were also members of the deputation who came to see you, do not agree that he has presented the factual position, and my committee feels extremely unhappy that a matter which can be regarded as having been closed, is now being dragged into party politics. The assertion that you replied to the letter of the Co-ordinating Council because the Mine-workers’ Union threatened to strike, is also rejected by my committee with contempt. My head committee has instructed me to convey to you its sincere thanks for the assurance you have already given the Coordinating Council deputation, i.e. that the Cabinet will during 1971 give favourable consideration to declaring Republic Day to be a paid holiday with effect from 1972.

Let us just see how loyal these people are who take truth as their foundation-stone. I have here an extract from a letter written on 16th September, 1969, to the general secretary of the National Party, Mr. Steyl, by the candidate in Vereeniging, a certain Mr. Mills. On 16th September he wrote as follows—

I want to make it clear here that I have absolute confidence in the leadership of Adv. Vorster. I know that as long as he is Prime Minister there will be no complications and that he will solve all problems effectively in the interests of South Africa,

Now he is establishing a party to protest against me, while on 16th September he was oozing loyalty. Let us now consider for a moment the origin of the Herstigte Nasionale Party. I think the story must now be told. It had its origin in the establishment of certain conservative study groups in Pretoria which were established around the hon. member for Ermelo and the hon. member for Innesdal.

*Mr. J. A. MARAIS:

You know you are talking nonsense.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

No, we shall find out in a moment whether I am talking nonsense. Hon: members established that conservative study group and out of it this party was born. I shall present him with proof of this across the floor of this House in a moment. According to Mr. Robert van Tonder, in his booklet Die stryd duur voort, that conservative study group decided to put up one candidate in 1966. That was the candidate in Prinshof, a certain Mr. Botha, whom they went to fetch in Waterberg. The conservative study group adopted the attitude that they were the Strydom men and that one must return to Strydom. That is also the reason why they published the booklet entitled Die stryd duur voort. Robert van Tonder states that they chose that constituency deliberately. This is interesting if one looks at the 1966 election. All the constituencies in Pretoria, all of which the National Party opposed, were opposed by either the United Party or the Van der Merwe party. In the case of Prinshof it was the Conservative National Party candidate, and there was only one unopposed constituency in the whole of Pretoria, and that was Innesdal.

*Mr. J. A. MARAIS:

And Vereeniging.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

I am talking about Pretoria now. There is also the case of Vereeniging, because the United Party candidate who would have stood there got cold feet at the last moment. I want to charge the hon. member with things having been organized in such a way that the election in Innesdal was unopposed.

*Mr. J. A. MARAIS:

As in the case of Vereeniging.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Let us now go further and take a look at this Mr. Van Ton-der. He played a particularly important part in the Herstigte Nasionale Party, for at their congress he gave them R1,000 and he was led on to the stage. He is a prominent member of the H.N.P. I want to charge the Leader with their standpoint in regard to immigration having been prescribed by Robert van Tonder, because Robert van Tonder had already written the following against Dr. Verwoerd on page 90 of his booklet which was written in 1966 (translation)—

At the commencement of his regime Mr. Vorster had the sympathy of all Afrikaners. It was realized that he was not responsible for the immigration dilemma and that he had inherited it from Dr. Verwoerd.

This is a man who is a prominent member and who eventually will probably become a candidate of theirs as well. But listen further. The reproach is now being levelled at me that I have suddenly become like General Botha, according to those members. This is not the first time that this reproach has been levelled at me. This reproach was levelled at me on page 139 of Robert Van Tonder’s book. Just listen to this. He wrote, with the approval of the hon. member for Innesdal—

The truth of the matter is, however, that our leaders are no longer on the road followed by President Steyn, President Kruger, Dr. Malan and Adv. Strydom.

Soon he will probably be adding Albert Hertzog and Jaap Marais as well.

They are on the road followed by Thomas Francois Burger, Piet Joubert, Louis Botha, Jan Smuts, the Hertzog of the Coalition years and the post-1961 Dr. Verword.

But now we come to the language question, and then I will have finished dealing with these hon. members. It is worthy of note, and we are all aware of this, that they had before their congress a constitution which was not written in one language only; at that stage they still adhered to the National Party’s standpoint of having two official languages. The man who rose to his feet there and suggested that they should reconsider this matter, was none other than this Robert van Tonder. He moved the motion. It was stated at that congress—I think by the hon. member for Innesdal or by Jan Jooste—that their head committee would consider this matter. They did consider the matter. Then they adopted the attitude that there should be only one official language. Mr. Van Tonder was able to exercise that influence because this booklet of his was financed and published by the Conservative Study Group since they were in collusion in regard to this matter and because, it is not unfair to deduce, the hon. member for Ermelo could afford the printing cost of this booklet, for Robert van Tonder did not have the money. This is what he wrote on page 146—

The preservation of the Afrikaner people can only be guaranteed by forceful political action. South Africa will have one language, and possibly much sooner than we think. But it will be a hard struggle, and provided the National Party bethinks itself in time, a titanic struggle between Afrikaner and Afrikaner.

This Robert van Tonder wrote as far back as 1966. That is why he was able to exercise this influence of which there is evidence here. Since I am now discussing how these gentlemen made their about-face in respect of immigration, how they made their about-face in respect of all the policies of the National Party, I just want to say the following in passing to the hon. member for Ermelo. In the months which lie ahead he is going to discover one thing: It is one thing to intrigue in the dark, but it is a different matter to fight out in the open.

But since we have now mentioned immigration, I should like to reply to the accusation made by the hon. member for Yeoville in that connection and to the questions he put to me. This is of course an old story of the United Party and their allies. They support each other very staunchly now as far as this story is concerned. We have allegedly taken over the United Party’s policy. Again it is an accusation which the hon. member does not level at me alone. That accusation was levelled at my predecessors, as the hon. member will recall. Could he perhaps inform me how many times he has done so already?

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

Not at Dr. Malan or Adv. Strydom.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Only at Dr. Verwoerd and myself?

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

You said at your predecessors.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Yes. But he also levelled it at Mr. Strydom. It is recorded in Hansard.

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

You immediately begin with a fallacious argument.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Very well then, we are coming to that. But the hon. member put certain questions to me in regard to immigration. I should just like to read to the hon. member what was said in this Parliament on 5th February, 1965 (Hansard, column 622) by the late Dr. Verwoerd when the same point was raised. Dr. Verwoerd then said the following—

I said that at a time when there was no economic growth it would be foolish to have large-scale immigration because the available housing, food production and opportunities for employment did not allow of it. Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

Still absolute nonsense.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Let us go back to 1948. Then there was no food and no houses either. Does the hon. member for Yeoville not recall how he and I had to sift will through silk stockings in order to make white bread? After all, the hon. member knows this. Dr. Verwoerd also said at the time—

I said that, but I said it at the correct time when it had to be said. But I also said something further. I emphasized that it would be wrong for a country to allow immigrants to enter whilst there were sharp political clashes in the country between those who wanted to maintain imperialism and those, on the other hand, who wanted to bring about a republic. The immigrants would then have joined the one group or the other and would have played their part in the struggle of the country to become independent. That would have been harmful to the country as well as to themselves. I therefore said at the time that the time for extensive immigration would come only when South Africa was a republic, because then the immigrants could be absorbed into one nation with one allegiance and one fatherland only. I said that, and I was correct in saying so. When we became a republic, and when we left the Commonwealth, so that the idea of being swamped could not be realized any longer, and when the wave of prosperity was approaching, so that we knew there would no longer be unemployment but a need for workers, and when our food production in the meantime had caught up with the shortages because of our agricultural development, we said: Now is the time to accelerate the pace; now is the time when immigrants will be able to make a living and can be absorbed and become part of the nation.

The hon. member for Ermelo would do well to listen to this sentence, i.e. that immigrants should become part of the nation. After all, it is this hon. member who makes unjust and unfair attacks on immigrants who cannot speak for themselves. These are people who are coming to South Africa in the hour of its need to stand by the Whites here. I shall read further—

It was a consistent immigration policy which kept pace with changing circumstances. I am not ashamed of having said all this previously. It was at all times the correct application of this same policy of bringing skilled people into the country to contribute towards the increasing prosperity. No other test in regard to immigration is wise or sound in any country. I can therefore tell hon. members opposite that that is the yardstick by which we should be tested, viz. whether the Government at every stage knew what was the right thing to do then in regard to that aspect of our population problem.

To-day that is still my reply to the hon. member for Yeoville. Yesterday evening I also gave my reply to the hon. member in regard to the pension scheme. I then told the hon. member that his side of the House did not see their way clear to accepting it. In addition I want to tell the hon. member that when I was Deputy Minister of Social Welfare an official who was particularly sympathetic towards this idea was sent abroad by us to institute a thorough investigation. This person, who was sympathetic towards this idea when he left here, returned and told us, after he had examined the systems overseas, that that system would not be suitable for South Africa. I still believe that to-day.

I now want to discuss a related matter. We must not make reckless promises. I realize that if one does not have a policy one has to make promises. I am human enough to understand that. However, we must not make reckless promises which we cannot keep. We must not undermine the spirit and morale of our people. We must not set foot on the road to a welfare state, something which has already been introduced in Britain and other countries. Let us please at all times refrain from damaging the self-respect of our people. Let us rather encourage it. Reference was also made here to a medical scheme. The Minister charged with that matter explained the circumstances very clearly to that hon. member the other day. Either he was not present in the House, or he did not listen. The hon. the Minister told him that the number of beneficiaries at present totalled 2,156,000. After all, those are the lines along which we have developed, which we should encourage. Those are the lines along which we should develop. However, the United Party have never on any occasion even made a study or a test of what the costs would be in respect of those matters if the State were to undertake them. They have never gone into the question of whether the necessary manpower will be available. But what is more, they have never yet given one iota of attention to what this will do to the spirit of our people. These are aspects one should take into consideration before making reckless promises in this connection.

I now want to come to the next charge the hon. the Leader of the Opposition levelled at the Government and which he has given as a reason why there should not be any confidence in us. The hon. the Leader stated accusingly that it was no longer possible to go along with this Government because it had become high-handed, because it had become arrogant. I should like to put a question to the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. Surely he was acquainted with his former Government, not so? Can his tell me whether he knows of any government which is more accessible to all sectors of the public and to all people than this Government and its Ministers. I can speak from experience. I have been in this position for many years. A man who has a case is never too unimportant or his position too humble to request an interview with one of us and to consult us on the matter; but what is more, we mingle with our people, we live together with our people. In that lies the strength of the National Party. That is why we are sitting here. I now want to link up the attack by the hon. member for Newton Park on the hon. the Minister of Economic Affairs with this. Because I am mindful of these matters and must take note of them, I now want to address a specific question across the floor of this House to the hon. member for Newton Park and ask him whether he wants to allege, directly or by insinuation, that the hon. the Minister of Economic Affairs has done anything immoral or irregular, or that he was guilty of improper conduct

*Mr. D. M. STREICHER:

You heard my speech, did you not?

*The PRIME MINISTER:

I am not asking him this question because I want to try to drive him into a corner. I simply want to establish a basis for my argument.

*Mr. D. M. STREICHER:

I asked you what your policy was in this case.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Forget for the time being what you asked me. I shall state my policy in a moment. I want to know from the hon. member whether he is insinuating that the hon. Minister conducted himself immorally or unworthily in this connection.

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

Read his speech. He stated it very clearly there.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

But why does he not tell me about it then?

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

But why do you not read his speech?

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Oh please, I cannot read every member’s speech, can I? I want to get that reply now from the hon. member himself in order to establish a basis for my argument.

*Mr. D. M. STREICHER:

I made no insinuations. I simply quoted the Act and asked what the policy in this connection was.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

I am glad that I have received a reply now, because now I can state my own case. We need not argue about whether it was wise or whether it was unwise to do so. That is not the point at issue. However, I want to make it very clear that there was nothing irregular and nothing unworthy in the conduct of the hon. the Minister of Economic Affairs. The Land Bank is a business institution to which all farmers can turn for long-term mortgage financing and longterm loan financing. Many farmers avail themselves of its services. In all fairness and for the sake of the record I must say that Ministers of previous governments made use of those facilities just as Mr. Haak made use of them in this case. And all those Ministers who made use of those facilities were honourable men. I am not making any insinuations against them; there was nothing wrong in what they did. Sitting in this House, probably on both sides, are members who have Land Bank mortgages. I know of members on the opposite side of the House who have obtained such mortgages. There is nothing dishonourable in connection with that. I do not want to bandy those hon. member’s names across the floor of the House. It is not in my nature to do so. I am simply mentioning the fact and saying in addition that there is nothing dishonourable in connection with that. What is the position now? The position is that Minister Haak purchased a farm. He did not purchase it for himself, but for his minor son, who is at present an agricultural student and who intends to farm on it. That farm would have been registered in his name, because it is not possible to have it registered in a minor’s name. But one cannot have a mortgage registered in a minor’s name. And if it had not been for that fact the farm would have been registered in the name of Minister Haak’s son, an agricultural student. He obtained the loan as the hon. member stated here, in the same way as members of the House of Assembly sitting on that side of the House have obtained loans from the Land Bank and in the same way as any farmer is free to apply to the Land Bank with a view to subsidies on dams, etc. There is nothing dishonourable whatsoever in connection with that.

*Mr. D. M. STREICHER:

But surely you know that that is not the argument I mentioned?

*The PRIME MINISTER:

What is.the argument? I am quite prepared to have you put it to me by way of a question.

*Mr. D. M. STREICHER:

Mr. Speaker, I want to ask the hon. the Prime Minister whether he cannot recall that my point was that a loan of R118,000 had been granted here on the purchase price of R149,000. while the Land Bank Act stipulates very clearly that it should be the fair value of that land. How is it possible in this case that the fair value corresponds with the purchase price of R149,000?

*The PRIME MINISTER:

I can answer that question very easily for the hon. member. The valuation which the Land Bank made of that property, gave the value as R150,000. On that R150,000 they were entitled to grant the Minister a bond of R120,000. However, they gave him less, i.e. R118,000. Those are the facts of the case. Surely the hon. member knows that the amount is determined according to the value of the property as determined by the Land Bank. I have been informed by the Land Bank that, with due observance of their stated policy and principles, no bond has been refused during recent years owing to a lack of money, not in cases where the conditions of the Land Bank and its policy were complied with. The hon. member knows this, and he is in agreement with it. The reason why the hon. member raised this matter here was in order to start a gossip campaign against the Minister.

*Mr. D. M. STREICHER:

It was not necessary, he …

*The PRIME MINISTER:

He wanted to insinuate to people outside that there was something irregular here and that a Minister had been granted unfair privileges.

*Mr. D. M. STREICHER:

But you asked me only a moment ago what I had insinuated.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

I am telling you now what you had in the back of your mind. You can be as pious about it as you wish in this House.

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

What about the 41 per cent of applicants who are being refused?

*The PRIME MINISTER:

But I have just told hon. members that these applications are refused because they have not complied with the requirements of the Land Bank.

The MINISTER OF TOURISM:

That is an insinuation.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

There we get the insinuation from the hon. member, in spite of the explanation I have furnished here. That is typical of him. He will still go and exploit this matter. I want to make it very clear now that, as far as the Minister of Economic Affairs is concerned, I have every confidence in him, not only as an able Minister, as far as handling his portfolio is concerned, but also in his integrity. I have every confidence that he was not a party to anything unworthy, and I have confidence that he was not a party to anything improper. If he had been a party to anything of this nature, I would not have hesitated for a moment to terminate his membership of this Cabinet. Let us understand one another very clearly in regard to this matter. I find it reprehensible that such a matter was dealt with in this manner. I have discussed the matter with the Minister. Regardless of how difficult it may now be for him, in view of the fact that hon. members on that side of the House will exploit this matter recklessly for their own miserable political gain in order to catch a few votes in this way, he now feels that he must endeavour in the coming months to make other arrangements in this connection and to redeem the bond so that this gossiping can come to an end. He is doing this because he, in the same way as I am, is concerned at the level to which our public life is descending. I now want to say to some members of the Opposition, not all—I want to say this at once— and also to all four members of the Hertzog Party that as far as I am concerned, if there is one matter on which we are fighting this election, we are fighting it on political decency in South Africa.

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

What about the eggs and the tomatoes and the shouting down of speakers?

*Mr. SPEAKER:

Order!

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Yes, the hon. member hurled eggs and tomatoes in the days when it still suited him to do so. As far as this aspect is concerned, I want to conclude by informing the hon. members that I find nothing dishonourable and nothing irregular in connection with the conduct of the hon. the Minister. I appreciate the fact that the hon. the Minister of Economic Affairs has taken that decision which I have conveyed to you.

While I am dealing with this point. I just want to furnish hon. members with some information in regard to the Land Bank. At the end of last year the Land Bank had mortgages on farm properties to the value of R228 million. Long-term loans to farmers to the value of R8.4 million were outstanding. Long-term loans to co-operative societies for the purpose of helping farmers, amounted to R55.5 million. The total, therefore, is R292 million. These are funds which the Land Bank found and which the government made available to it for the purpose of helping the farmers of South Africa. But I want to tell hon. members that the Minister of Agriculture and the Minister of finance—these two in particular—other Cabinet members and I are mindful of the fact that we are entering a phase where more has to be done in this regard than this amount of R292 million which we have already made available, and that is why I want to make this announcement to-day. Deeply conscious of the growing dimensions of the need of the agricultural industry for adapted financing owing to oppressive drought conditions on the one hand and, on the other hand, fluctuating economic factors, the government is giving consideration to the appropriation of sufficient loan funds to the Land Bank from the Treasury in the course of the next few years so as to enable the bank to expand its financing programme to such an extent that all the reasonable needs of the farmer in respect of long-term mortgages on farms at a reasonable rate of interest may be met according to the merits of the circumstances of each case. This is the policy for the future. This is an aspect of policy which I discussed the year before last and especially last year with agricultural leaders and, in particular, with the Ministers of Agriculture and Finance.

Now the hon. member has asked me the customary questions in regard to the Bantu policy. I want to tell the hon. member at once that the questions he asked me on the economic development of the Bantu areas and related matters, are questions to which I furnished full replies last year, just as my predecessors had furnished full replies. My colleague the Minister of Bantu Administration furnished full replies this year. But if this is not enough for the hon. member, I want to tell him that recently two excellent papers by highly capable officials, i.e. Dr. Rieckert and Dr. Rautenbach, were read on this matter, and I shall furnish the hon. the Leader of the Opposition with copies of those papers.

*Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

I have already read them.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

That astonishes me, because in that case you did not understand them, for to a certain extent those papers cover the very questions you have asked me.

*Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

That is not satisfactory.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

If this is the hon. member’s argument, he will have another chance during this Session to raise this matter with me and then we can discuss it across the floor of the House. But I say that in so far as it is pertinent he has in this debate received his full reply from the hon. the Minister of Bantu Administration. The hon. the Leader only made one mistake, i.e. he proceeded on the false premise that in the year 2000 the number of Bantu would be between 36 and 40 million.

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

That is the estimate given by Die Beeld.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Since when has Die Beeld been an authority as far as you are concerned? I thought you knew so much that you were your own authority.

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

The Deputy Minister himself said this two years ago.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

I want to tell you that the highest responsible estimate which was made in that regard and which I have been able to find, was that there would be 7 million Whites, 5 million Coloureds, 1 million Asiatics and 27 million Bantu. [Interjections.] I am not involved in the argument between you and the Deputy Minister. I am merely furnishing the facts of the matter as I have been able to ascertain them.

I now want to debate with the hon. member for the umpteenth time. I now want to argue the question of political representation with the hon. member for the umpteenth time. We have discussed it in this House before. For the purposes of my argument I now want to accept that the United Party’s policy is to introduce white representation for the Bantu and for the Indians. I want to accept that in toto, and then I first just want to point out in passing that in that regard the hon. member immediately dragged in the matter of Lesotho to warn against our development of independent Bantu states which will eventually come into being. He tried to scare the electorate with the development that has occurred in Lesotho. He has already received the answer, but I am merely touching on it here. In the first place, it is after all a fact that we are preparing our black people much better than the British prepared theirs for becoming independent. In the second place, we did not throw away the old and introduce something new. We retained the good features in the old and incorporated them in the constitution, i.e. the system of chiefs. In the third place—and this is very important in view of what has happened in Lesotho—we stamped out communism, not only in our territory, but also in theirs. We shall to an increasing extent be prepared for it and stamp it out, wherever it may rear its head, and this is something the Britons did not do in Lesotho or in any of their other territories. Now this question has arisen, i.e. what is our relationship with Lesotho? I want to tell you, Sir, that our relationship with Lesotho is exactly the same as it is with Rhodesia. We are simply carrying on as though nothing has happened. Lesotho is a neighbouring state of ours. We do not interfere with them. We do not dictate to them. We have no hand in their decisions. But it is a neighbouring state with which we have to negotiate, and as far as we are concerned, Chief Jonathan is in effective control of that neighbouring state and we shall continue our negotiations with him as if in fact nothing has happened in Lesotho.

*Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

That is official recognition.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Official recognition or not. official recognition simply plays no part, just as little as it did in regard to Rhodesia. It is merely a question of our continuing as if nothing has happened. We have our specific relations with them and we are continuing with those specific relations. And as far as his state of emergency is concerned, he has furnished his reasons for that, i.e. that it was on account of communist subversion that he had to take this step. And that is his business. What I know about the B.C.P., compels me to agree with Chief Jonathan that it is a communist, subversive influence, for the Leader of the Opposition was a Peking communist, and this has been proved time and again in the past.

I say we are now coming to the cardinal point, the difference between the United Party’s policy on the one hand and our policy on the other, its policy of introducing into this Parliament the friction factor of colour representation, and my policy of eliminating that level of friction. Was it not specifically on that very point that the hon. member for Umlazi felt called upon to join the National Party? And to-day, on the eve of the election, I want to put this to the hon. member once again— and I also want to argue this matter with the hon. member for Yeoville. Their standpoint and their policy of introducing that colour factor into this Parliament will lead to friction for which we shall pay very dearly in South Africa. But I also want to tell him this. I want to argue that it is dangerous to introduce into this Parliament the representation of Bantu by Bantu. I take it that the hon. member agrees with me that it is dangerous to introduce them here. [Interjections.] I do not want to ask the hon. member a catch question; I merely want to argue this point. Is it dangerous to introduce them, yes or no?

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

Proceed with your argument.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

I am merely asking the hon. member the question. In that case I shall ask the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. After all, he must answer whether it is dangerous to introduce them here. I am asking him in all fairness: Does he consider lit dangerous that Bantu should represent Bantu here?

*Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

It is undesirable.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

The hon. member says it is undesirable; that is good enough for me. Sir, if it is undesirable, it can only be undesirable because it is dangerous. But, in any case, let us not play with words. Let us accept that we have at last succeeded in making him say that it is undesirable. But if it is undesirable, then, surely, it is folly to act in such a way that it may become possible; surely, then it would be extreme folly to create machinery which is going to make for precisely that undesirable state of affairs. Why then create the machinery which would make it possible for that undesirable state of affairs to occur? This is not a question of what I say. I am now going to quote hon. members on that side in order to prove that they themselves are saying that this undesirable state of affairs is in fact going to occur. I am not going to argue about it with the hon. member, but I am merely quoting for the sake of the record what he said on the B.B.C.—

Our Leader, Sir De Villiers Graaff, stated very clearly that whereas on our election we will give the black people of this country representation in Parliament by white people, he accepts and we all accept that that is not a permanent situation, that it will change and that future Parliaments will allow black people to come into Parliament.

In principle they are bringing about that undesirable state of affairs which they do not want, for they are saying to the Bantu: “You are entitled to being represented here in principle; you can come here.” Surely, then the next step would be that he would tell you. “I want to be represented by my own people,” and by implication you are conceding that this is exactly what will happen. On a subsequent occasion—and I want to place this on record as well—this matter was argued with you once again. At that time you joined issue with the Deputy Minister and you said (translation)—

He alleged that I had said that if we should come into power, the Bantu would be represented in Parliament by Whites, and subsequent to that I said in reply to a specific question that I accepted that in the course of time Parliament would allow Bantu to be represented in Parliament by Bantu. This is the gist of it. Sir, I said that and I believe that it will happen.

This is what you are holding up to us for the future; you believe that this will happen, but you are not merely resigning yourself to the belief that it will happen; you are opening the door so that it may in fact happen. This is what you are doing to South Africa. You now admit that it is undesirable to do this. I shall go further than that; I say that it is dangerous to do so, but you are opening the door to what you admit is undesirable. But, surely, you yourselves know—the hon. the Leader of the Opposition also said this—that Bantu will be represented here by Bantu, and he says he said it because he was under pressure at the time. After all, we had that argument here across the floor of the House. The greater the pressure, the blacker the representation becomes; we have had that admission from the lips of the Leader of the Opposition. But, Sir, we need not stop at them only.

*Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Pressure from whom?

*The PRIME MINISTER:

You said pressure from the people here in South Africa.

*Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

My own people.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Yes, your own people. You said your own people had brought pressure to bear on you, and you know how susceptible you are to pressure. Sir, this is recorded in Hansard; we need not argue about it. [Interjections.]

*An HON. MEMBER:

The hon. member for Houghton brought pressure to bear on him.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Does the hon. the Leader of the Opposition want to ask me a question about it?

*Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

No, I am going to speak about it.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

I shall not run away if you want to ask me a question about it. You are welcome to do so; we have lots of time.

*Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Does the hon. the Prime Minister admit that the late Dr. Verwoerd said in this House that the policy of sovereign independence had been adopted owing to pressure from outside, from abroad?

*The PRIME MINISTER:

All Dr. Verword said was that the pace was faster and being accelerated.

HON. MEMBERS:

No, that is untrue.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

You can argue about it; I am telling you what he said; after all, I shared in that process. But now the hon. the Leader of the Opposition has neatly tried to get round the question by referring to what was said by Dr. Verwoerd. Does he still admit that he said his people had brought pressure to bear on him?

*Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

I subsequently overcame that pressure …

*The PRIME MINISTER:

I am quite satisfied with that; the great pressure is something of the past, but it may be brought to bear again. But let us look at what is done in the green tree—the hon. member for Durban (North), a member who is becoming more and more influential in the United Party. The only member who has made more rapid progress is the member for Hillbrow, and I shall deal with him later. He has not yet issued a statement to the effect that I have the right to do so, but I am going to appropriate that right to myself. On 14th November, 1969, the hon. member for Durban (North) had a question-and-answer interview with the Natal Mercury. Questions were put to the hon. member in regard to these matters. Let us listen to what the hon. member said.

*Mr. M. L. MITCHELL:

Read the whole thing.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Yes, I am going to read out the whole thing, because the further I read it, the worse it becomes for the hon. member. I shall now read the relevant part. If the hon. member is so fond of what he said, he can read it aloud to himself at home to-night, but I am only going to read the relevant part now. This is what the hon. member said—

We say that the Coloureds should be represented by Coloured representatives, that Indian representatives should be white and that the Bantu representatives should also be white. This position would not change unless the electorate wished it. Mr. Morgan: Do you think that non-Whites would be satisfied with that solution? Mr. Mitchell: No. My own view is that obviously one day each group will be represented by their own people and this is something that I think is inevitable, but only when the white electorate is prepared to accept it. Mr. M. L. MITCHELL:

That is the answer.

Dr. E. L. FISHER:

What is wrong with that?

An HON. MEMBER:

He says it is inevitable.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

If, on the one hand, the hon. member says, “It is inevitable”, what is this qualification supposed to mean: “Only when the white electorate is prepared to accept it?” Surely, it is rubbish to say that. But this is not important to me. What is important to me, is that it is the hon. member’s view that Bantu will have seats in this House one day; this is what I find important. His view is that it is inevitable that the Bantu will take their place in this House.

*An HON. MEMBER:

A new Hofmeyr.

Mr. R. G. L. HOURQUEBIE:

The electorate will decide.

Mr. W. V. RAW:

May I ask the hon. the Prime Minister whether the fact that the hon. the Minister of Information believes in Coloured homelands means that that is the policy of the Nationalist Party?

Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

That is a fair question.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

I have made it very clear what the policy is. I said that was not practical politics. There are in fact people who are speculating on it and the hon. the Minister is one of them, but he did not say that it had to come or would come or that it was his belief that it had to come. [Interjections.] Hon. members must give me a chance to speak; I did not interrupt them. But let us now deal with the makulu boss of the United Party at the present moment, the member for Hillbrow. In that regard it is interesting to note—and I address this to the hon. member for Yeoville, who spoke on work reservation —that the workers of South Africa want work reservation. The workers of South Africa want work reservation. I am making that statement and I think hon. members agree with me.

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

Why then do you not give it to them?

*The PRIME MINISTER:

But you want to abolish what we have.

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

Why 2 per cent only? [Interjections.]

*The PRIME MINISTER:

As a matter of interest I just want to mention in passing the finding arrived at by the hon. member for Hillbrow in the book he wrote jointly with two other gentlemen, i.e. Suid-Afrikaners onder die soeklig. Just after he had written this book, the Leader of the Opposition was so impressed that he made him a candidate and brought him to Parliament.

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

No, he already was a candidate.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

This is what is said in this book (translation)—

There are barriers which the white manual labourers are trying to maintain at work and in the social and political spheres. The majority of them approve of job reservation.

This is the finding he arrived at after making a scientific study of the matter. But let us now look at the kind of Bantu policy pursued by the hon. member for Hillbrow, who is the candidates committee in the Transvaal at present. This is the committee which ousted the hon. member for Kensington in order to bring the political correspondent of the Progressives into this House. I find it interesting that it should in fact be George Oliver who has been made a candidate by the hon. member for Hillbrow, because the member for Hillbrow is searching for allies who share his views. I want to tell the hon. the Leader of the Opposition that the hon. member for Hillbrow does not endorse his policy. This is an interesting book. I do not know who of you have had the time to read this little book. This member made a penetrating study of politics in South Africa before becoming a member of this House. This is the conclusion he arrived at—

What we …

The “we” refers to the authors, but now it also refers to the United Party, of which he forms part. He said—

What we therefore envisage is a third chamber in the system of government in South Africa, a chamber in which the Natives will have direct representation by their own representatives. After all is said and done, there is a good South African precedent for such a body. Did President Kruger not create a second legislative assembly; (Volksraad) under circumstances which did not differ much from the present ones?

I shall now skip two paragraphs, and then he goes on to say—

This is the way it can work: a third legislative chamber, a second House or Bunga for the Bantu, or whatever it may be called, ought to be created. This will become a Parliament for the Natives living outside the autonomous Bantu homelands, and they will elect their own representatives in that body.

Then he goes on to say that these people will not be represented in that new chamber only, but on page 142 he says—

In the Senate the Natives will be represented by the Natives.

And then he is the chairman of the candidates committee …

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

He is not.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

What is he then?

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

Why do you not get your facts straight before you say such things? [Interjections.] That is untrue. [Interjections.]

*The PRIME MINISTER:

If I am under a wrong impression which the newspapers created for me … [Interjections.]

Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

[Inaudible.]

*Mr. SPEAKER:

Order!

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Is he on the candidates committee?

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

He is a member, yes, and there are 13 other members.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Very well, Sir, now I can understand why a candidate such as Mr. Oliver, who believes that Bantu must be represented in this Parliament by Bantu, and Coloureds by Coloureds, and Indians by Indians, is nominated in the place of an old veteran such as the hon. member for Kensington, and why the hon. member for Kensington had to receive such treatment at the hands of those hon. members. [Interjections.] My time is running out. [Interjections.] No, he (Mr. D. J. G. van den Heever) lost his nomination. He was not pushed out from the top in an undemocratic way.

I now come to the last point which I want to discuss with the hon. member, i.e. the question of the Coloured people. Groundlessly, the hon. member for Transkei and others accused me here, knowing full well that it is not so, of having said that I do not have a Coloured policy.

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

I heard that.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

No, you heard nothing about it. What the hon. member did hear was that not only I, but all of us, including the Leader of the Opposition, said that we could not foresee the end of the road, and that we did not know the final solution. Dr. Verwoerd said it repeatedly.

Mr. T. G. HUGHES:

In Hansard, volume 25, column 369, you said that you did not have the final solution. I have your Hansard here.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

I spoke about the final solution. I do not want to argue with the hon. member now. I just do not want him to put words into my mouth and distort what I said. That is all I want. [Interjections.]

*Mr. SPEAKER:

Order!

*The PRIME MINISTER:

I say that I differ with the hon. member for Peninsula, who has alleged that there is greater enmity between Whites and Coloureds to-day than in the past. Thanks to the policy of separate development, feelings between Whites and Coloureds have improved systematically over the years. They started improving when Minister P. W. Botha was the Minister, and they have continued to improve after Mr. Marais Viljoen took over from him. I am very grateful for that. We established the Coloured Persons’ Representative Council. We provided the Coloureds with business enterprises in their own areas and made it possible for them to develop. We gave them control over education at primary, secondary and university level. We have developed them and are developing them as an independent nation.

Mr. G. S. EDEN:

Then you go and pack their Council.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

The hon. member need not quarrel with me over that matter now. He received a full reply from the hon. the Minister for Coloured Affairs. If hon. members would listen for a moment—and they will have reason to listen to this—I want to say that I have felt since last year that the time has arrived to go further. After we did what we said we would do, and established the Coloured Persons’ Representative Council, it was felt that the time was ripe and that attention should be given to the Coloured municipal franchise.

Mr. G. S. EDEN:

The Coloured people have had a municipal franchise for years.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Yes, I know that. In this connection, discussions were held between the Coloured Persons’ Representative Council and myself. We went into this matter. In this connection, discussions were also held by me with the Leader of the Cape Province and with the Executive Committee of the Cape Province. I think it would be much better if I submitted the letters I received in this connection, arising from those discussions, to hon. members so that they may deduce precisely from that what the standpoint is and what is going to happen in the future. I want to say immediately that it has a negative aspect on the one hand, but on the other hand—and this is the side which carries the most weight—it has an exceptionally positive aspect which holds great benefit for the Coloured population, not only of the Cape Province, but of the other provinces as well. After the interviews in his connection, the Administrator wrote to me as follows (translation)—

I am writing with reference to the discussion which four members of the Executive Committee had with you on 30th January, but which I unfortunately could not attend, and the previous discussions about the question of mixed local authorities which Mr. F. J. Conradie, M.E.C., held with the Cabinet members concerned. The Executive Committee has now thoroughly considered the matter of accelerating the progress in the Coloured people in the field of local government and together with this the switch-over to the parliamentary voters’ roll for the election of councillors of all white local authorities, and has decided to accord its full support to the Government’s approach concerning such accelerated progress, as well as to the proposed investigation in connection with it. The Executive Committee accepts the principle of switching over to the parliamentary voters’ roll for the election of white local authorities, with suitable adjustments in the light of the Cape Province’s special circumstances as discussed by you with the members of the Executive Committee. I have now also requested the Director of Local Government to submit my proposals in this connection to the Executive Committee as soon as possible for their consideration. As the switch-over to the parliamentary voters’ roll will, inter alia, result in the disfranchisement of the non-White voters, its implementation will have to be coupled with the introduction of a positive role for the non-Whites, and the Coloureds in particular, in the field of local government. Because it is not regarded as desirable that a general election should again take place on the basis of a mixed voters’ roll, the Executive Committee has furthermore decided that immediate steps be taken for legislation in terms of which the general election due to be held in September, 1970, under the existing ordinance will be postponed to September, 1970, to be introduced in the Provincial Council at the earliest opportunity.

This comes from the province itself.

*Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

The bomb falls …

*The PRIME MINISTER:

It is no bomb, but a consistent application of our policy. I want to read the letter which I received from the Coloured Persons’ Representative Council to the House (translation)—

The Coloured Persons’ Representative Council Act, Act No. 49 of 1964, makes provision in section 17 for, inter alia, the administration of local government matters in respect of the Coloured areas by the Executive Committee. As you know, local government powers are at present in the hands of white local authorities, who perform their functions in terms of various provincial ordinances under the control of the Provincial Administration. In 1963 legislation was in fact passed by all four provincial councils to make provision for the establishment of consulting and management committees for Coloured group areas as a preparatory step and at a later stage, for full-fledged local authorities. A number of such committees have already been established throughout the Republic, but owing to a variety of reasons autonomous local authorities have not yet been established for Coloured group areas. The control and administration of Coloured areas is therefore still in the hands of white local authorities, while the Coloured people’s share therein is insignificant. The fact that Coloured persons in the Cape Province do have limited voting powers in municipal and divisional council elections is an impediment rather than an advantage in our endeavour to lead Coloured areas to independence. As a matter of fact, this causes so much friction and enmity on the part of both the white and the Coloured groups that it is in the common interest to terminate this doubtful privilege with the least delay. In view of the policy of the Government to create all possible opportunities for the parallel development of the Coloured population group into independent communities, inter alia, in the field of local government, and particularly in view of the objectives which the former Prime Minister, the late Dr. Verwoerd, announced in his speech to the Union Coloured Council in 1959, i.e. that within 10 years the Coloured people would have full control over their towns and cities, I wish to appeal to you humbly and yet in all seriousness to apply this policy consistently on the local government level as well. This would of course mean that the control of local government would be directly integrated with the functions and activities of the Coloured Persons’ Representative Council and its executive committee. I am convinced that the existing dual control is obsolete and that it is in the interest of all sections of the community that the creation of the necessary machinery for these powers to be taken over by the Coloured Council and the implementation of this plan should take place with the least delay. Your kind attention to this request will be highly appreciated.

This letter comes from the chairman. Mr. Tom Swartz. Discussions have been held by me. I have informed myself in this connection. The hon. member sitting over there knows that in Kimberley and other places that friction is building up. It is building up and it is leading to unpleasantness. It is leading to disturbances in race relations which should not be there. I am very grateful that all parties concerned in this matter …

*Mr. G. S. EDEN:

What friction is there in Kimberley?

*The PRIME MINISTER:

If the hon. member is not aware of it, it is time he sensed it or that he asked the hon. member for Kimberley, who is well informed in this regard, about it. This friction must be eliminated. The Coloured people themselves admit that there is friction. The Whites know that it is there. I am doing this not only, and I want to repeat it now, to eliminate an additional level of friction, but I want to do it because it is consistent policy to do it in this way. I want to do it because in terms of the policy of separate development it will create chances and opportunities for the Coloured people which they have not had before. From this it becomes clear what the future planning in this connection will be. I said on a previous occasion that I was busy laying foundations. I want to repeat: I do not know what the final solution will be and where the road will end, but I am constantly indicating the road, that the Coloured people should proceed along their own course and the Whites along their own course and that they can confer to and fro with one another on a friendly basis on their respective courses.

The National Party, and I shall conclude with this, has governed South Africa for 21 years. The Leader of the Opposition adopts the attitude that he has no confidence in this party. I wish to make the assertion that this party, after 21 years, after problems of boycotts and undermining, after it has had to deal with enmity and misunderstanding such as no other party has ever had to deal with, has led South Africa to great heights. South Africa to-day stands as a healthy state for everyone to see. We are envied by many other countries in the world because we can display South Africa like this, as it really is. Just look how it has grown. If one looks at the growth rate over the decades, one will see that there was an average growth of 4 per cent from 1917 to 1937. As a result of the circumstances which arose later, it dropped to below 4 per cent during the decade from 1937 to 1947. But from 1950 it started rising. In that decade the growth rate was 5 per cent, and in the decade of the sixties it was 6 per cent. Look at the growth rate of other countries. One need not even look at comparable countries. One may look at countries which in other respects were in a better position than South Africa. Sir, we have built up a strong South Africa under difficult circumstances in the years which have passed. We have built up a South Africa in which there is peace in the field of labour. To-day we have a Republic in which racial peace prevails. We have a Republic with a standard of living which ranks among the highest in the world. We have a Republic which is growing as no other country is growing. But what is more, in the midst of all the enmity existing in the world we have a Republic which, thanks to the course of action we have followed, is safe. The time of spectacular events in the political life of South Africa is past. All that lies ahead for us is hard work. The matter of race relations is one of the most delicate which South Africa will ever have to deal with, on account of the numerical ratios which I mentioned here to-day. I appeal to the old guard Who established the Republic and I appeal to the young people who ask “What must we live for?’ and I say that there is nothing more challenging, more beautiful and liner than working for the preservation of the Republic of South Africa. I call upon the young people of this nation, and also the people who established this Republic; to support and protect it. I want to conclude by saying that the Republic of South Africa and its interests are safe only in the hands of the National Party.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Mr. Speaker, the whole course of this debate, I think, he, made it perfectly clear that there is only one real reason for this election, namely because of the difficulties that have arisen between the hon. the Prime Minister and certain of his former colleagues. It has shown quite clearly that this election has been called to settle those differences and it has shown quite clearly that the machinery of State is in fact to be used to wash and iron the dirty linen of the Nationalist Party.

It is difficult to sum up this debate, because so much of it has been devoted to action between the hon. the Prime Minister and his former followers. I can only say that if I had been the referee in the fight I think I would have disqualified them both. I think I would have recommended that the Nationalist Party, because of its former record of resorting to tomatoes and eggs at public meetings, should be suspended for the future. It is no aid to an intelligent solution to the problems of South Africa. In so far as one has been able to follow this dispute it has been an unsavoury and unpleasant fight, which I do not believe has advanced the prestige of Parliament or the interests of the people of South Africa. Having listened to it all in the course of these five days, all I can say is: A plague on both the houses of the two parties concerned. The arguments on both sides seem to me to be singularly unimpressive and notable for their ferocity and invective rather than for their logic. In some respects the Herstigte Nasionale Party seemed to be left behind in the thinking of the Nationalist Party. In others they seem to show a very much keener appreciation of the dangers with which South Africa is faced under the policies of this Government. They certainly have a very real appreciation of the dangers of the application of what is known as the B O.S.S. clauses and also a very much keener appreciation of the dangers involved in the dictatorial ideas of the hon. the Prime Minister.

We have had the usual sanctimonious protestations on national unity from the Nationalist Party and we have had them thrown in the face of the Herstigte Nasionale Party. We have had the Leader of the Herstigte Nasionale Party reminded of his own difficulties with his own father. The one thing that was never mentioned during the course of this debate was the manner in which this Nationalist Party treated the late General Hertzog himself on this very subject of national unity. There are some of us who remember why this hon. gentleman left the Free State Congress of the Nationalist Party during the war years. We remember with what contempt the late Dr. Verwoerd wrote in the Transvaler that he had left the congress over the rights of the English, and saying he could hardly understand it. One remembers how it was over the dispute as to whether they should guarantee the political rights or also the language rights of the English-speaking people in South Africa. I am not surprised to find there are people in the Herstigte Nasionale Party who still have the ideas the Nationalist Party had in those days. They cannot deny it. That was their policy. They have come a long way since then. I am very glad to see it. However, they have still not come far enough to be able to say that they are achieving anything like real national unity in South Africa. I have said before and I say again what they stand for is co-operation on terms, not real national unity. I have said before too it does not surprise me that their terms tend to prove more and more unacceptable to English-speaking people who have had any experience inside the Nationalist Party.

It seems to me there are similar contradictions and obscurities in their setting out of the story in respect of their sports policy. This directive which was given to Mr. Orchard, our representative in New Zealand when he was here on leave before the All Black rugby team was due to come to South Africa, is something that we are hearing about since this dispute started for the first time. One wonders whether that mandate to Mr. Orchard embraced a full-blooded Maori or only people with Maori blood. One wonders that if it did embrace a full-blooded Maori, why it was that the tour was cancelled?

The PRIME MINISTER:

Do you not know what preceded?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. gentleman asks me whether I do not know what preceded.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

May I put a question to the hon. the Leader of the Opposition?

*Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

With pleasure.

*The PRIME MINISTER:

Does the hon. the Leader of the Opposition not know that this matter had two sides? The one side of the matter was the demand that had been made that we should practise mixed sport here in South Africa and that we should include Coloured persons in our team.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Mr. Speaker, is the hon. the Prime Minister suggesting that that was a claim from the New Zealand Rugby Union?

*The PRIME MINISTER:

No, from the politicians.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Nonsense. I am not interested in the politicians of the outside world. It was not they who cancelled the rugby tour. This rugby tour was cancelled by the New Zealanders.

The PRIME MINISTER:

No.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Oh yes. If there is this confusion of which the hon. the Prime Minister talks why was there no clear statement at the time setting out the position? It seems to me without any doubt that the Government would be better advised to admit that they were wrong in their policy and that they have changed this policy. What possible harm could it do to South Africa for that admission to be made? It would certainly create a better impression inside South Africa and especially outside South Africa. It could make this policy of real value for South Africa. It would make the position so much easier, for members like the hon. member for Port Elizabeth (Central) who spoke so strongly against Maoris being allowed to come to South Africa in a touring team. Now that he finds his seat is in danger, he is finding himself in support of the hon. the Prime Minister.

From this discussion two points emerge which I think are of national importance. These are points which I want to put pertinently to the Prime Minister. The first is that in the course of this debate this dispute between the Prime Minister and his former colleagues, the hon. member for Innesdal produced either an original document or a copy of an original document which appeared to have been top secret. The authenticity of that document has in no way been denied.

The PRIME MINISTER:

I have not seen it. He has not had the courtesy to show it to me.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. the Prime Minister says he has not seen it and I have not seen it. It does appear to me that its authenticity has not been denied and I suppose the Prime Minister and the Minister of Defence knew quite a lot about what was in that document.

The PRIME MINISTER:

That specific paragraph is genuine.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The Prime Minister says the specific paragraph is genuine. It is a fair presumption that if that specific paragraph is genuine that the document is genuine. What I want to know is how the hon. the Prime Minister is looking after the security of this country if a top secret document of that kind can, if one accepts the story of the hon. member, be sent to him through the post by somebody who must have had lawful access thereto.

The PRIME MINISTER:

That is an untruth.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. the Prime Minister says it is an untruth. Well, Sir, how did he get hold of it? I take it the hon. the Prime Minister did not give it to him. I take it the Minister of Defence did not give it to him.

The PRIME MINISTER:

No, certainly not.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

In other words, he got unauthorized possession of it and was not intended to have it. I say again, how is the Prime Minister looking after the security of our country when a document which he says is secret and in respect of which the exposure may endanger the lives of Portuguese soldiers, Rhodesian soldiers and our police …

The PRIME MINISTER:

I did not say that for one moment. His interpretation and the fact that … [Interjections.]

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Oh no, Sir. It is not I who put that interpretation on it. It is in every newspaper in South Africa that I have seen this morning.

The PRIME MINISTER:

I shall let you have the same document, then you may judge for yourself.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

It still does not help me. I am not sure that I am interested in the document. What I want to know is how it got into the hands of an unauthorized person while the hon. the Prime Minister is in charge of security. The other thing I want to know is this. The hon. the Prime Minister has told us that this document had no reference to the tapping of telephones.

The PRIME MINISTER:

Nothing whatsoever.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

I accept that entirely. But what we have not been told is whether there is in fact tapping of telephones, whether there is official sanction for listening in to telephone conversations.

The PRIME MINISTER:

That answer has been given you repeatedly for years and again this year.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

It has been given me repeatedly by Posts and Telegraphs. I am asking the Prime Minister to give it to me on behalf of the Bureau of State Security.

The PRIME MINISTER:

I say that the Bureau for State Security has nothing to do with that whatsoever.

Dr. E. L. FISHER:

But do they do it? Who does it then?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

I suspect that the hon. the Prime Minister is trying to run away from me again. I suspect that he is making use of some technicality and that he is suggesting that the Bureau does not do it …

The PRIME MINISTER:

You mentioned the Bureau and you asked me a question to which I have replied.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Can I put it this way to the Prime Minister. Is there authorized tapping or listening in to telephone conversations in South Africa or is there not?

The PRIME MINISTER:

No.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Then we must assume it takes place unauthorized.

The PRIME MINISTER:

Why must you assume that?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. the Prime Minister said that it is not authorized. He denies that it is taking place. Is that correct?

The PRIME MINISTER:

You have had the answer time and again.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

If that is the answer, I may say that it makes it very difficult to accept.

The PRIME MINISTER:

It makes it difficult for you to argue because that is the basis of your argument.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

No, the hon. Minister does not make it difficult for me to argue because there is hardly a civilized country in the world where it is not taking place in some form or other under some control or other. The hon. the Prime Minister knows it.

When I introduced this motion I raised six main issues. The first of these was the failure of the Bantu policy of the present Government. I want to say that when I dealt with that matter, I placed certain figures before this House, figures as to what I expected the number of Bantu to be which will have to be moved from year to year if the policy were to achieve any sort of success. The first contradiction has come in respect of those figures. It has come from the hon. the Prime Minister. I may say that I find it difficult to accept that he does not know of other figures published in newspapers of which Ministers in his Cabinet are directors. I find it difficult to accept that he does not know of the forecasts which were apparently made by the hon. the Deputy Minister in which he accepts very much higher figures. Accepting the hon. Prime Minister is right, there still is to be such a movement of Bantu from the white areas to the homelands if anything like the success they hope to achieve, is to be achieved that the whole policy is entirely impracticable. I want to say to the hon. gentleman and all members on that side of the House that if you have a policy of which the central element is to reduce and not to limit the number of Bantu in the white areas and it is manifest for everybody to see that you are failing despite all the possible and impossible steps which were outlined by the hon. Minister of Bantu Administration and Development, the time has come not to find an excuse for the failure of your implementation of the policy, but to look into the practicability of the policy itself. When that is done, when one tests the claims in the direction of success by Ministers on the Government side, then the figures given by the hon. Deputy Minister are too pathetic even to worry about. These claims are pathetic in the light of estimates by trained economists of what will have to be done by way of job opportunities in the reserves. They come here and say that they are making real progress. They base this on the hope that in the next five years they will provide jobs in the reserves for 5,000 Bantu. In the light of the vast numbers involved, this is so laughable that it is not even worthwhile having regard to it. Nothing, absolutely nothing the hon. Minister has said has shown that this policy is practicable or can ever be made practicable. I want to say to the hon. gentlemen opposite that it is reprehensible enough to mislead the public as they have done with this policy, but when they mislead themselves as they are doing at the moment with their belief of possible success for this policy, then they are heading for a crash, a crisis which can be disastrous to South Africa. When you have a policy which has failed, you have to start looking for a practicable alternative. The Minister suggests that the only practicable alternative is complete integration. He says that he knows of no middle course. It is most significant: While they say when you deal with the Bantu there is no middle course at all, there can only be complete segregation or complete integration, they suddenly find there is a middle course, namely parallel development, when it comes to the Coloured people. They know they put the Coloureds on the first step of the ladder in that direction, but they do not know where it is going or where it is going to end, but they concede it is a different policy. I want to suggest to the hon. the Prime Minister that it is high time he came down off his ivory tower and that he got down to the realities of the situation and tried to find a practical solution. I want to say that if he cannot find a practical solution, the sooner he makes way for people who have a practical solution the better for South Africa. After all, what is his policy doing? His policy is slowing up development all over South Africa; it is slowing down the rate of growth. It is acting as a clog on efficiency and it is endangering the whole future of Western civilization and the future of the white race in South Africa.

The hon. the Minister of Bantu Administration has issued a challenge to us as to how we shall limit the number of Bantu in the White areas. Sir, why should he challenge me to carry out his policy? It is his policy, with the impracticable ideal of limiting the number of Bantu in the white areas. He is the man who is going to carry it out; he is going to reduce the number. I have told him categorically that we would retain influx control and that there would be development inside the reserves with private white capital and white initiative and skills. I told him I believed that development would be faster than under his Government, and I believe it will be cheaper for the people of South Africa. Not only will it be cheaper and faster, but I believe it will be economically more advantageous to South Africa that we should develop those areas as part of one economic whole, the economy of the whole of South Africa, and not as seven or eight independent little economies which will probably be vying with each other before long.

The hon. the Minister still says numbers are not decisive; they do not really matter, but what matters is the basis on which the Bantu are in the white areas. Well, if they are right, then numbers do not matter as far as our policy is concerned, as long as political control is in the hands of the Whites, in civilized hands. Then why should not we withstand the pressure of numbers, if they can withstand the pressure of numbers? The argument cuts both ways.

But there is a dangerous development we have seen in this debate, and that is that the Deputy Minister of Bantu Administration is already suggesting that they have gone so far with homeland development that they can never turn back. Nobody can ever turn them back, and sovereign independence is now inevitable.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BANTU ADMINISTRATION AND EDUCATION:

I did not say that about sovereign independence.

HON. MEMBERS:

You did.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. member says he never said that. Well, either you can turn back or you cannot turn back. Now which is it? Does he agree that he said you cannot turn back?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BANTU ADMINISTRATION AND EDUCATION:

On the road to separate development, yes.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Yes, on the road of separate development towards sovereign independent Bantu states. In other words, the hon. member is suggesting that we have passed the point of no return and that we cannot now turn back from the promises they made to the Bantu people.

The PRIME MINISTER:

But who says we want to?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. gentleman asks who says they want to. Does he accept that it is now too late to turn back?

The PRIME MINISTER:

We do not want to turn back. It is the only road.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Does the hon. gentleman accept that it is now too late to turn back?

The PRIME MINISTER:

I have never considered that point because I do not want to turn back.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

In other words, this is probably the last election where the people of South Africa will have the opportunity of expressing their disapproval of sovereign independent Bantu states to be carved out of South Africa.

The PRIME MINISTER:

You said that in 1961 and again in 1966.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

No, I never said it in 1961. I have always said there was time to change course, but now this hon. gentleman is trying to create the impression that there is no longer time; things have gone too far. Then the position must be very much worse than I thought it was.

The PRIME MINISTER:

You can think what you like and you can tell the people what you like.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The Prime Minister seems to be getting a little excited. May I say to him quite categorically that the position then must be worse than I thought it was, and the people of South Africa must be warned that this is the position envisaged by the Prime Minister.

Now the hon. gentleman has made great play of the differences between our policy and his policy, and he has made great play of the differences between the British colonial policy and the policy of South Africa in respect of sovereign independent Bantu states. I want to say to him to-day that if he believes that in that way he can avoid the dangers of those sovereign i independent Bantu states, then he is living under a delusion. Then he is not aware of what is happening in the rest of Africa. I listened in the other night to “Current Affairs” on Radio South Africa, something which to my knowledge is never favourable to my party, but seems to come out with quite a lot that is favourable to the Government. What did I hear? Of something like 30 African states which have gained independence since 1959, in not one has power changed hands peacefully. That was not British colonial policy alone. That was the colonial policy of the metropolitan powers which have been in Africa over the years. Does the hon. gentleman think he is going to avoid that state of affairs? Sir, he is deluding himself and misleading the people of South Africa. Then he believes that his policy offers greater security for South Africa than the policy of this side of the House, because there is to be representation of non-Whites in this House. But he knows very well that there has been representation of non-Whites in this House before, and the clock did not stop and we did not have a revolution. He also knows that there is no reason whatever why the extent of that representation should not be controlled. The hon. gentleman is trying to suggest that the inevitable result of the policy of this side of the House will not only be Bantu representing Bantu, but greater numbers of Bantu in this House. I want to get it quite clear with the hon. gentleman. It has never been the policy of this side of the House that Bantu be represented by Bantu in this House. It has never been the policy of this side of the House and it is not the policy of this side of the House, and it cannot ever become policy unless a majority of the white voters in South Africa seek it. and I do not believe that they will seek it. The position is perfectly clear. We are giving representation to the Bantu by white people in this House and there will be no change in that policy without a referendum or an election in which that is the issue and it gets the support of the majority of the white voters of South Africa. But the suggestion is continually made by the hon. gentleman that we would change in the light of pressure. That comes ill from that hon. gentleman when his predecessor stated here in Parliament that the policy he is following to-day is not a policy that they would like to follow, that it is not a policy that they wanted to follow but a policy that was inevitably being forced upon them by outside pressure.

Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

And not the pace.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. gentleman has tried to run away from that this afternoon; he has tried to suggest to us that all Dr. Verwoerd said was that what would be affected was the pace of development. Sir, these are the words of his predecessor—

Daarteenoor, al bring dit sware stryd mee, stel ons weer ondubbelsinnig die ontwikkeling van die aparte rassegroepe. Die Bantoes sal kan ontwikkel tot aparte Bantoe-state. Dit is nie wat ons graag sou wou gesien het nie. Dit is ’n vorm van verbrokkeling wat ons nie graag sou wou gehad het as dit binne ons beheer was om so iets te vermy nie. In die lig van die magte wat toesak op Suid-Afrika, is daar egter geen twyfel dat dit mettertyd sal moet gedoen word om daardeur vir die blanke sy vryheid uit te koop.

Sir, what can be clearer than that? This policy is being applied by the hon. the Prime Minister because of pressures from outside. His predecessor said that it was not something that they would have liked to have done; that it was not something that they wished to do but that it was unavoidable because of the forces that were bringing pressure to bear upon them from outside.

The MINISTER OF INFORMATION:

What is the reference? [Interjections.]

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Hansard of 1961, col. 4277. Sir, I believe that there is no doubt whatever, when one compares the policies of the two sides, that the policy of this side of the House offers more security for Western civilization here, more security for the future of the white race and more security for good relations between White and non-White in South Africa than this impossible pipe dream of which the hon. the Prime Minister is always talking and which is being proved more and more to be impracticable and impossible of fulfilment. Sir, the hon. gentleman tried to cause further confusion by quoting something that had been written in a book by the hon. member for Hillbrow. I want to ask him whether he is going to take the responsibility for everything that has been said and written by Senator Horwood?

The PRIME MINISTER:

I must obviously take the responsibility.

An HON. MEMBER:

Do you agree with what he says?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE:

Since he has become a member of the National Party, of course.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

I think the hon. the Prime Minister is in for some bad surprises.

Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

Now you will see a new Nat Order.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Sir, I hope it stands in Hansard that the Prime Minister takes responsibility for everything..

The PRIME MINISTER:

I must obviously take the responsibility,

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE:

For what he has said since becoming a Nationalist.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Let me now deal, Sir, with the policy of the hon. the Prime Minister in regard to the Cape Coloured people. He said that the position between Furopean and Coloured was improving and that he disagreed with the hon. member for Peninsula in respect of the relations between Coloured and European. I want to say with tagret that I believe the hon. the Prime Minister is wrong. My own experience is a different one. It seems to me inconceivable that the hon. gentleman can be unaware of the bitterness that has been built up as a result of the actions of his Government, particularly the action of his Minister in the appointments he made to the Coloured Representative Council. But, Sir, the hon. gentleman has gone further. He has now taken another step which I fear may lead to further friction and further bitterness and that is the decision that in future parliamentary franchise will be applied for municipal and local body elections in South Africa. I am in difficulty at the moment because I do not have clearly from the hon. gentleman what the alternative is that has been placed before these people, and I would like to study those letters before I comment on this any further. But it does seem to me that this holds in it the seeds of further friction and further bitterness between the Coloureds and Europeans of South Africa. It is also quite clear from what the hon. gentleman says that he still has no idea of the end of the road in so far as the Coloured people are concerned.

The PRIME MINISTER:

Quite frankly, yes.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. gentleman says “Quite frankly, yes.” He asks the public of South Africa to vote for him to put them on the road and keep them on the road, the end of which he cannot foresee.

The PRIME MINISTER:

Do you foresee it?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. gentleman asks whether I foresee it. My forecast for the end of his road is friction between the races.

The MINISTER OF INFORMATION:

And yours?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

My forecast for the end of his road is that it is going to be proved that the State within a State which Dr. Verwoerd envisaged is impossible. My forecast is that they are going to find that you cannot have two sovereign parliaments within one State. My forecast is that he is going to be forced in the direction of his Minister of Information and move in the direction of a Colouredstan with all its difficulties, or it will not be possible to carry out his policy.

Sir, the second issue I raised was the question of this Government’s failure to deal with the manpower shortage in South Africa. What reply have we had? We had a reply from the Minister of Labour suggesting that the entire manpower shortage was exaggerated and need not really be taken seriously. Sir, I believe he was given authorities by the hon. member for Hillbrow which, to say the least of it, should make him think again. I would say that if the hon. gentleman says there is no manpower shortage in South Africa, he is whistling in the dark and running away from the realities of the situation.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR:

I did not say there was no manpower shortage; I said there was no crisis. There is a manpower shortage but there is no crisis.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

I am going to suggest to the hon. the Minister that it is fast reaching crisis proportions because of his inaction and his failure to deal with the situation. Sir, what did we have from the hon. gentleman? All we had from him was an attempt to find out what the position was in respect of job reservation. I think the hon. member for Hillbrow has exposed that as a snare and a delusion and a colossal bluff; so the cry came whether we would abolish job reservation.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR:

Will you please answer that?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Sir, hon. members opposite have had their reply.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR:

Will you abolish it?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

I want to emphasize certain aspects of it and I want the Minister to listen carefully.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR:

I will.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

I hope the hon. gentleman will because he knows very well that job reservation has two aspects. One aspect is what is known as the conventional colour bar in South Africa. This in practice amounts to a tacit agreement and some-tines an express agreement between employers and employees that certain spheres of work will be reserved for white workers. That is the South African convention and that is one which we do not propose to abolish and, as I shall show, we will take measures to protect any group of workers against any transgression against the spirit of that convention. The other use of the term “work reservation” is in respect of the rigid statutory colour bar contained in clause 77 of the Industrial Conciliation Act as it has been used by this Government.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR:

And also in the Mines Act.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Clause 77 is the clause that gives the Minister the power to reserve occupations either completely or on a percentage basis for Whites or any other race group. It has been operative for about 15 years and it has been proved a farce. Nobody knows that better than the Minister. There have been a few orders reserving various occupations. They affect about 2 per cent of the total labour force in South Africa. Some of these orders, Sir, are quite ridiculous. I do not believe lam wrong when I say that there is one that lays down that only white men can drive the vehicles that remove the night soil of certain races in Durban. Most of these orders have been rendered more or less useless by masses of exemptions granted by the Minister. In practice they have no relation to-day to the reservations originally granted. This clause is seldom used, and when used, it is vitiated by exemptions until only the shell of prejudice remains. Yet it remains on the Statute Book. It remains a disgrace to South Africa because of the impression it creates in the world outside, namely that we are selfish, intolerant and oppressive. As far as we are concerned, the provisions of clause 77 can and should be repealed.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR:

You have never yet stated that so clearly.

Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

We fought its introduction.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

We have said it for years already.

*An HON. MEMBER:

What you have said is recorded in Hansard.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

We have said something else which I hope the hon. member will agree will also be in Hansard. That is that we shall put in its place other guarantees for the workers which we believe will be more effective than clause 77. We shall entrust those guarantees, in the first instance, to the trade unions, and ultimately in the right of appeal to an impartial body like an industrial tribunal, for any worker who feels aggrieved at competition from members of other races in the sort of work he is doing.

Mr. V. A. VOLKER:

Do you want mixed trade unions?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. gentleman asks whether I want mixed trade unions. I believe that in many cases trade unions as we had them before this Government separated them led to very much better conditions for the workers of both races throughout South Africa.

HON. MEMBERS:

So you accept them?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

No, do not run away. The hon. gentleman knows that I accepted the trade unions as they were before this legislation was introduced. I have never accepted black trade unions for Bantu. The hon. gentleman knows that. The matter is so important that I want to mention a few more thoughts in this regard. The first is that I think we have to face the basic fact that our prosperity, that is our comfort and our way of life, depends on White and non-White working and working together in the interests of South Africa But we have to accept as another basic fact that the Whites are outnumbered by the other racial groups, who are often prepared to accept lower wages in competition with Whites. The danger is there, although one has every sympathy with employers who cannot get Black labour. Their problem is in fact our problem, since our prosperity depends on the success of their business enterprises. We on this side of the House believe that steps must be taken to prevent the abuse of labour, whether it be White or non-White. I am completely confident that businessmen can be assured of all the labour they need, while at the same time the white workers can be properly protected in South Africa. I believe that, with the growth of South Africa, white labour, and particularly trained white labour, can become a very scarce commodity and that we should make the best possible use of the labour force available to us. I believe that that is going to come to pass, provided that this Government accepts our proposals for equipping every white child for the responsibilities of leadership, and for giving every white worker the opportunity to educate and re-educate himself for better jobs. I do not believe that white workers are going to get better jobs or income security by keeping non-Whites out of industry. If he does, he is going to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. Black workers get jobs because there are not enough Whites to do the work. When they get those jobs, it very often means that there are better jobs available for the white men, and usually a better type of job as well.

Already the Handelsinstituut is saying that our educational system is 25 years behind the times. Already it is being said that this Government will have to double the amount of money that is being spent on education. Already it is becoming obvious that this Government will have to lend its assistance so that all able white children can be educated to the maximum of their ability, even at universities and institutions of higher learning, whether their parents can afford it or not.

The PRIME MINISTER:

May I ask you a question in that regard? Are you aware of the fact that, whereas in 1947 only 17 per cent of Std. VI pupils reach Matric, it is as high as 51 per cent to-day?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Sir, the hon. the Prime Minister is making the suggestion that he has improved the educational system. Yet the Handelsinstituut says that we are still 25 years behind the time. Those may be the facts, but they still reveal the highly unsatisfactory position in South Africa. They still reveal the fact that 49 per cent of those who have passed Std. 6 do not get Matric, and I wonder what percentage gets Std. 6? These are figures that can be put before the public, and be very misleading. I believe that our White population in South Africa is not getting an adequate education. I believe that that is supported by almost every educationist of any knowledge in this country. I believe that it is supported by the Federated Chamber of Industries, by the trade unions and by all the experts. I feel that the time has come for something to be done about it, as proposed by us on this side of the House.

The MINISTER OF INFORMATION:

Are you talking about white education?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Yes. I was speaking about white education. That is what I am now talking about, the white worker.

The MINISTER OF INFORMATION:

Do you think that there are some of them who do not get Std. 6?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Tragically, despite compulsory education, we do not have 100 per cent of pupils really passing Std. 6 at the moment. I know that they are supposed to. The hon. gentleman has been a schoolmaster. He has told us how he taught history. I would not be surprised if his class did not pass. [Interjections.] Not only do we want to see provision for the re-education of those workers to take better jobs, but we want to see provision for them for temporary housing if they have to move into different areas. We want to see the encouragement of industrial business expansion in every way by proper protection for economically sound business enterprises, by means of tax policies applied by the government.

Now, Sir, how would we protect the white worker? We believe that, first of all, what should be done by the White man and what should be done by the non-White are things that should be agreed upon between the trade union and the employers’ organizations. We believe that if there are difficulties, there should be an appeal to an industrial tribunal. We believe that where there is competition between White and non-White, the rate for the job must apply. We believe for those Whites who are less well educated and cannot compete, there must be a guaranteed minimum wage at real wages, which have regard to the value of money, and that it should be guaranteed them for a period of years while they are being reeducated. May I say that it is a part of our policy that increases in the cost of living should be taken into consideration and that there should be an adjustment of wages in accordance with the ordinary determinations so that the worker can share in the prosperity of South Africa. I believe not only that that would give a great deal of protection to these people, but also that it would enable us to have a far better type of job available for the Eruopean worker in South Africa, with complete security. Now I know that I am going to be asked how I can reconcile a minimum wage with the rate for the job. The answer is tint the rate for the job applies above the minimum wage. If Whites cannot get jobs at the minimum wage, they will have to be cared for by way of sheltered employment and special employment provided by the government. That is something we believe should be looked at. We are faced with a series of figures that were given us by the hon. the Minister of Labour indie-ting the extent to which the number of Bantu workers in the white industrial areas had grown. I may say that the figures he gave us are challenged to-day by one of the leading trade union officials in South Africa. From those figures it appears that whereas the hon. the Minister gave us the figure of 644,000 Bantu employed in industry in the white areas in 1968, the figure given by this gentleman is 722,800. These figures apparently come from the Bureau of Statistics. It appears that the number of African industrial workers as a proportion of all workers in industry in white areas rose from 55.5 per cent in 1965 to 55.6 per cent in 1968 while the percentage of Whites decreased. That is the opposite of what the hon. the Minister has told us. The suggestion is that the hon. the Minister’s figures do not conform with the official figures put out by the Bureau of Statistics. I fear that this is one of the troubles with which we are faced. The hon. gentleman is not facing this problem. He is not coping with it and he is slowing up the development of South Africa. He is limiting the prosperity of every section of the population because he does not have the courage to come out and tackle this problem in a way that will give better opportunities to Whites and raise the standard of living of all sections of the population.

I raised a third issue, namely the neglect of the ordinary man in the street by this Government. I referred particularly to the lot of the civil servant. The reply I got from the Minister of Economic Affairs was that there had been rises in wages in 1968 and that that had not been before an election. On 15th August last year, Dr. Enslin, chairman of their association, complained that a crisis was developing in the Civil Service because of a shortage of manpower and he ascribed it to the wage conditions in the Service. This matter has been drawn to the attention of hon. Ministers before but we have not had one satisfactory reply from the Government in this regard. I say without hesitation that my case is made as far as this matter is concerned.

Then there was raised the question of old age pensions and a national contributory pension scheme. We were told by the hon. the Prime Minister that the matter had been investigated when he was a Deputy Minister and that as far as he was concerned, those who had started out in favour of it ended up against it. He was not prepared to support it because after all we should have some national self-respect and engender self-respect in the individuals concerned.

The PRIME MINISTER:

I said that in general but it applies here as well.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

I want to say that we are thinking of a national contributory pension scheme to which the individual as well as the State should contribute. We believe that this is not only long overdue but also accepted in most Western countries and we cannot understand why it is not accepted in South Africa.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL WELFARE AND PENSIONS:

Do you include the Bantu?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Certainly those who are able to contribute adequately.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL WELFARE AND PENSIONS:

What about those who cannot contribute adequately?

Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

Just like workmen’s compensation.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Just like the situation at present; at least we will have had a big improvement.

Then I pointed out that the Government had overtaxed the people of South Africa over the last 20 years and that that overtaxation had become even more serious with the imposition of a purchase tax last year. I pointed out our objections to that purchase tax. I also pointed out how we had foretold that far more would be collected than was forecast by the Government. We have been proved to be completely correct as far as this is concerned. The Minister has now taken action which has shown that we were completely correct. I am still sure that when the Budget is presented we will see once more to what extent the ordinary man in the street has been overtaxed once more. This is my reply to the hon. the Prime Minister about the cost of social services. I believe that the money is there; that it is available. We have been overtaxed to the extent of nearly R1,250 million since 1948 and in addition to that the Government has salted away approximately R341 million which it has sterilized to take it out of circulation. That could be used for the needs of the ordinary people. I want to suggest that the replies of the hon. Prime Minister both in respect of a national contributory pension scheme and a State assisted medical aid scheme are utterly unsatisfactory and do not deserve the support of the people of South Africa.

I also raised the question of housing and we got a reply from the hon. Minister of Community Development. I want to say that I believe that that hon. Minister was really quite wise to confine himself in his reply largely to housing as it relates to Indians and Coloured persons who required housing in many cases as a result of removals under the Group Areas Act. The charge we make and the charge which remains unanswered is that he has not applied himself to the housing needs of our expanding white population. He has not applied himself to the increased prices of land, to the increased building costs and the problems they create for young couples and he has not applied himself to the increasing incidence of high density living conditions for young couples with young children. I want to say that as far as we on this side of the House are concerned, we charge this Minister with complete ineptitude.

Mr. G. P. C. BEZUIDENHOUT:

Oh, nonsense!

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Why then is there no overall planning for housing requirements? Why is the Government unable to tell us accurately what the position is or to assess the housing requirements and shortages? Why has the Government not stepped in to reduce the delays in respect of the approval of townships? Why has transfer duty not been reduced in respect of small houses? Why has there been no system of tax relief granted to employers providing housing for their own employees? There is only one answer and that is that this Government is indifferent to the lot of the ordinary man in the street in South Africa. That is another reason why they should be ignored by the electorate in this election.

The fourth matter raised was the question of agriculture and the failure of the Government to play its proper part in combating the problems of the agricultural community. Under the present drought conditions there are farmers who feel very bitterly throughout South Africa, particularly here in the South Western and North Western Cape at the present time. The trouble with the price policy of this Government is that the Ministers of Agriculture cannot defend themselves of their price policy. They talk of what they have done in terms of a long-term policy. Why was the Marais Commission appointed to work out a long-term policy for agriculture in South Africa? Hon. gentlemen will remember the dispute in this House when I raised the question of the lot of the agriculturalist in South Africa under the Prime Minister’s vote when I was told by members on that side of the House that I should raise it under the vote of the Ministers of Agriculture and that only matters of national importance should be raised under the Prime Minister’s Vote. What could be of greater national importance than the lot of the agriculturalist in South Africa? That hon. gentleman will remember the plans put before this House and the motion which came from the hon. member for Gardens for a commission to investigate the long-term planning of South African agriculture. That was voted down by that side of the House. What happened then?

When the then Prime Minister, Dr. Verwoerd, went to his own congresses he ran into so much trouble from his own people that he was forced to appoint the Marais Commission. What have we had since then? We have only had a few interim reports recommending very largely United Party policy. Now at last we had the hon. the Prime Minister announcing to-day that vast sums are going to be made available to meet the capital needs of farmers in difficult conditions to assist them a little further. How long have we not asked for more money to be made available? For how long have we not asked for the subsidization of rates of interest? For how long have we not asked for another price policy from this Government? Now members on the other side of the House turn round and ask us how we work out the costs of production. For how long have control boards not been working out the costs of production in South Africa? Why must they suddenly find that they can no longer do this because we propose that they should do it? Is it not one of the principles underlying the Marketing Act that the farmer should receive his production costs as well as a reasonable profit?

When that Act was established, it was de signed not only for orderly marketing of the farmers’ products, but also that price stability be ensured and to provide the farmer with a reasonable profit. It is this Minister of Agriculture who has departed from the principles of the Marketing Act. He is the Minister who has talked about supply and demand. At times when production costs had risen, he has nevertheless reduced the price of the commodity to the farmer concerned, as he did with white mealies a year or two ago, despite the recommendations of the Maize Control Board. If he is not prepared to follow a policy which will ensure production costs, a reasonable profit to the farmer and the recognition of the risk factor, what then is he in favour of in fixing prices for the farmers? The hon. gentleman will find the farmers will not be prepared to produce under those circumstances. That is one of the reasons why he is losing large numbers of farmers in South Africa. He quotes from a synopsis of our policy statement. He knows very well that our policy has been debated in this House on many occasions. He knows that we put proposals before this House to suggest that the instability of farming income should as far as possible be eliminated. How is the risk factor to be eliminated?

We have suggested that there should be the implementation of a general State-aided crop and stock insurance scheme, which will ensure that the farmer would at least get his production costs during unfavourable times, like drought, hail, frost and circumstances of that sort. He put the question of how he would work out production costs. I have said that the Marketing Board has been doing that for years. I know that those products which are normally exported provide problems, but if they are an important part of the industry which has been built up over the years, with big capital investment that is worthwhile saving, then I believe that the Government has to be prepared to subsidize where necessary in order to assist those people to remain on their feet. In cases of temporary surpluses and the possibility of the difficulty of disposing of these surpluses, I believe it is right that the Government should spend money to increase local demand, that it should be something borne by the whole community and not just the farming community. I want to say that these election promises by the Government are going to do very little to restore the confidence of the farming community in the Government after the way they have been treated over the years. This is merely an attempt to distract their attention from their difficulties because of the coming of the election. Why was this not done years ago, over the five, six years of drought we have had in various parts of this country? How many good farmers have not gone under because of the lack of help of the kind that the Prime Minister is suggesting he is going to offer to-day with an election around the corner?

Then there is a sixth issue which I believe should be placed before the public of South

Africa, namely the alarming development of authoritarian tendencies in this Government. It was very interesting to note that there was no attempt at defence so far as that was concerned from the other side of the House. Not a single Minister stood up and dealt with the subject.

The PRIME MINISTER:

I dealt with that last year.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. the Prime Minister says he dealt with it last year. Sir, this is this year and the examples I have been given run over the last year. He is no better than he was; he is a lot worse. It is high time that the public of South Africa call the hon. the Prime Minister and his party to book for the authoritarian tendencies that are developing.

The PRIME MINISTER:

I replied to the new one that you raised.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

I want to suggest that their failure to reply is a tacit admission that they themselves know how very arrogant they are becoming and with what arrogance and contempt they are treating the public of South Africa.

The hon. the Prime Minister has tried to justify his action against the hon. member for Ermelo in altering the terms of reference of the commission he appointed and having the matter immediately investigated. I wonder whether the hon. gentleman realized when he made the statement that he was going to have the hon. member investigated by that commission that at that time one of the regulations of the commission was that the names of witnesses could not be revealed.

The PRIME MINISTER:

Of course, I had known.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Of course he did. In anticipation of his power to alter the rules, he proceeded to make a statement in conflict with the rules.

The PRIME MINISTER:

It is because it was to be a public hearing.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Yes, it would be a public hearing with the object of embarrassing the hon. member to the maximum. [Interjections.]

As far as I am concerned, despite all the hon. gentleman’s talk of his desire to reveal fraud and deceit in public life, in which I go along with him, I think this was an entirely unnecessary step. It was a small step, not the sort of thing one expects from the Prime Minister of South Africa.

The PRIME MINISTER:

I appreciate you are taking up the cudgels for your partners.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. the Prime Minister can go on with the propaganda that the hon. member for Ermelo is my partner. Do hon. members know what he is doing? He is merely enlarging the credibility gap that already exists in respect of the views of the people of South Africa.

But the hon. gentleman went further and sought to deal with section 29, one of the provisions of the General Law Amendment Act.

The PRIME MINISTER:

Just in passing.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

But in passing he misled the House and the public of South Africa.

The PRIME MINISTER:

That is a lie.

HON. MEMBERS:

Order!

The PRIME MINISTER:

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member accused me of misleading the House. I put that to you, Sir.

Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

You must withdraw it.

The PRIME MINISTER:

I am perfectly prepared to withdraw it, provided the hon. member withdraws his accusation. [Interjections.] I put that as a point of order, Sir.

Mr. A. HOPEWELL:

Will the hon. the Prime Minister withdraw the words “it is a lie”.

The PRIME MINISTER:

I have asked Mr. Speaker’s ruling on a point of order. You know I always obey the Chair, and I am awaiting your ruling, Sir.

Mr. SPEAKER:

I think the hon. the

Prime Minister must withdraw the words.

The PRIME MINISTER:

I do, Sir.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. gentleman contends that the common law empowers the head of State to issue a certificate which was final in respect of matters affecting the security of the State. He says that he himself gave such a certificate, backed by a Transvaal court, and that there were conflicting decisions that caused the Department of Justice to come forward with section 29 to clarify the position. I raised with the hon. gentleman the question whether the case of Van der Linde and Calitz did not clarify the position and state it finally, since it was an Appeal Court decision. The hon. gentleman said that Calitz’ case dealt only with particular circumstances, a particular case, and had no general application. Now, Sir, the headnote of Calitz’ case is so general that it is difficult for me to accept that interpretation.

The PRIME MINISTER:

I will argue that point with you in the next debate.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. gentleman says he will argue it with me in the next debate, but I want to point something else out. Not only is that headnote of general application, but the interpretation which we on this side of the House have given to this section, has apparently been accepted by the Bar Councils of every Bar in South Africa. It has apparently also been accepted by every Law Society. There have come protests from teachers of law at a large number of our big universities, universities like the Rand Afrikaans University, Potchefstroom University, the University of South Africa and many other of our great teaching universities. I have that headnote here. I have their judgment here. I should like to place it before the hon. the Prime Minister, because it seems to me that the hon. gentleman either does not understand what is the implication of this section, or he has been misled by the people who should have advised him. There is no doubt whatever that the vast mass of legal opinion in South Africa is to the effect that that clause goes far too far and that the explanations so far given by the hon. the Prime Minister and by his Deputy Minister in this House did not meet the situation. The hon. the Deputy Minister apparently did not know that this case has gone on appeal. He did not realize that the case he quoted in respect of English law has been overruled by the House of Lords. The hon. the Prime Minister has made statements in this regard before his own congresses which, to put it mildly, leaves one with the impression that he has not had an opportunity of studying them and doing his homework on the subject.

The PRIME MINISTER:

If you want to argue the point with me I am prepared to do it.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. the Prime Minister put it to me and I must reply. It looks as if I am getting it all my own way too. It looks to me as if the hon. gentleman is not briefed even now. But what has this to do with the Prime Minister’s action in respect of the hon. member for Ermelo? It has nothing to do with it whatsoever and I want to say that I stand by my criticism in that respect.

The hon. gentleman has told us in lighter vein that he never needed advertisements about bars to get the public to his public meetings. I wonder if he remembers the meeting at Malmesbury on the 21st March and I wonder if he paid any attention to the advertisement advertising the meeting, namely “a big braai and a substantial bar”.

In saying that we have no confidence in this Government and asking the public to show their confidence in us, I cannot but recall how often we have been right and the Government has been wrong. There was the question of the purchase tax, the question of immigration and that of the Orange River scheme. There has also been the difficulty in regard to national unity which has now been revealed by the split between the Prime Minister and his friends in his own party. There have been questions in connection with the farmers’ income tax, the bulge in taxation, the taxation of married women and also a large number of other matters. One of the difficulties with this Government at the present time is that they make promises and statements and one is beginning to have difficulty in knowing exactly what one can accept. I have one example in respect of the hon. the Minister of Transport. He attacked the hon. member for Ermelo and his group at a meeting in Potchefstroom which was reported in Die Burger of the 18th October, 1969. He was reported as follows:

Minister Schoeman het gesê as dit dan in sonde is om af te wyk van in beleidsverklaring van ’n vorige Eerste Minister, wil hy vra waarom hierdie mense nie ook vir mnr. Vorster beskuldig het van afwyking van dr. Verwoerd se beleid toe die Regering besluit het dat die blanke Kleurlingverteenwoordigers in hierdie Parlement verwyder moes word nie. Minister Schoeman het dr. Verwoerd se woorde op 23 Januarie 1962 in die Volksraad aangehaal waar hy gesê het dat hy geen plan hoegenaamd het om die Kleurlingverteenwoordigers te verwyder, seifs nie nadat die Kleurlinge hulle eie Parlement het nie. The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

What is your point?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

My point is quite simple. The hon. the Minister said why did these people not accuse the Government of departing from Dr. Verwoerd’s policy. The hon. the Minister knows very well that the present Minister of Defence told us in this House that when that policy statement was made in this House Dr. Verwoerd and he had already decided that they were going to remove the Coloureds’ representatives.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

I am not concerned with what the hon. the Minister of Defence said.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The hon. the Minister says he is not concerned with what the hon. the Minister of Defence said, but he said it in this House. When I challenged him as to whether that was a correct reflection of what Dr. Verwoerd had done, there was no denial from this hon. Minister. Now it seems as if this hon. Minister of Transport did not believe the hon. the Minister of Defence.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

That is a very stupid thing to say. Do you expect me to know of a private conversation?

Mr. S. J. M. STEYN:

He is a cynical old man.

*Mr. SPEAKER:

Order! The hon. member for Yeoville is going too far now.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Here we have two hon. Ministers saying in this House that when Dr. Verwoerd made those statements he had no intention of retaining the representatives of the Coloured people in this House. Did the hon. the Minister not believe them either?

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

I read out what Dr. Verwoerd said in 1962 and I said it was no crime to change the policy of a previous government. What is your point? I cannot see your point.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

The whole point is that there was no change in policy and that only the public was bluffed as to what the policy was. This is the sort of difficulty we are beginning to have with this hon. Minister. Figures were given the other day in this House by the hon. gentleman concerning the editor of this new newspaper and his terms of employment. They categorically denied them.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

Yes, of course, they denied it. They deny everything.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

They deny everything, but the public will decide in due course who was right. But we had the case of the hon. the Minister of finance who came to this House in June last year and spoke about relaxation of exchange control and the effect it would have on the stock market. He said nothing would be done until we have settled the problem of selling our gold.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE:

That is not so.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

I have here the hon. gentleman’s exact words which I would like to read out to him. He said the following—

If we were to succeed in solving the problem of marketing gold and if we could obtain the foreign exchange and by doing so relax our exchange rate control and send more money to countries abroad I am convinced that share prices on the Exchange will show a downward trend. Once share prices on the Exchange show a downward trend people will be more inclined to invest money in fixed interest-bearing securities which include building societies.

Later on the same day he said the following—

If I can foresee the possibility of a solution to our gold marketing problem being found, a solution that will make it possible for us to sell our gold more freely and in that way to earn more foreign exchange, and to export more money out of the country which would inevitably lead to the Exchange showing a downward trend as well, it would be my duty to sound a note of warning. I did not say that I was sure that it would come. What I did in fact say was that I expected, hoped and trusted that we should find a solution to the problem shortly perhaps before the end of this year. What I did in fact deny was when I was asked whether I expected this to happen shortly, to-morrow, the day after or next week.

On that very night the hon. gentleman relaxed control from his seat in the Senate.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE:

Was it on account of gold sales?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

No, that is the point. It was not on account of gold sales. The hon. the Minister led the public to believe that he would not be able to do so until he solved the problem.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE:

I will take you up on that.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

I will be happy indeed. That hon. Minister is the person who told us that a purchase tax was going to be imposed on luxury and durable goods.

The MINISTER OF FINANCE:

When did I say that?

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

That I will also produce to the hon. gentleman in due course.

Mr. W. V. RAW:

Mainly luxury and durable goods.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

Yes, mainly luxury and durable goods. But what happened? Lip service to the promise, lip service to the statements and every kind of goods were taxed. We are faced with an election. I believe that the replies of this Government to our criticisms have been wholly unsatisfactory. I believe that we have spent a large part of these five days in washing the dirty linen of the Nationalist Party in this House. It seems that the hon. the Prime Minister and many members on his side of the House attach more importance to that fight than to the future problems of South Africa. I want to say that so far as we are concerned, this is merely another reason for having no confidence in the present Government. I want to say that what we offer to the people of South Africa is the maintenance of white leadership in South Africa over the whole of South Africa; and that we will live in peace and harmony with all races in South Africa, in one State with one central Government, but with the various races governing themselves in matters of more intimate concern to themselves. We will give them a measure of self-government in their own communities. We will recognize the special position of the reserves. We believe that we can ensure that peace and harmony through a federation of communities with defined representation for each community in the central Parliament on separate rolls. We will guarantee no change will come in the parliamentary representation of any of the non-White groups without the approval of the white electorate in a special election or referendum for that purpose. We believe that we can deal with the day-to-day problems of living and making a living in South Africa by maintaining separate social and residential amenities. We will provide sufficient properly-trained labour to meet the demands of an increasingly prosperous economy with the proviso that white workers will be protected against unfair competition. There will be protected employment at minimum rates of pay for those Whites who through no fault of their own are in need of such protection. There will be better facilities for the training and re-training of workers so that no white worker will fall by the wayside because he is not properly trained to take a better job.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT:

Platitudes and promises.

Sir DE VILLIERS GRAAFF:

That hon. gentleman says platitudes and promises. I challenge that hon. gentleman to make those same promises to the people of South Africa. He cannot do it; he is kicking over the traces by breaking the Government’s policy in respect of his own non-Whites on the Railways every day of the week. He knows it, but he is not prepared to have the private industrialist given the same relaxation. I want to say something else to that hon. gentleman. I want to say that we will uphold the rule of law in South Africa. We will secure South Africa against both internal and external attacks. We will guarantee every man’s right of access to independent courts of law in South Africa. We believe we can build up better living standards for all race groups. We will guarantee those social services which the hon. the Prime Minister is refusing to guarantee. We will guarantee to provide more houses especially for young couples anxious to start their own families. I believe we can, as I have said before, ensure that we will provide television as well. I believe that the people of South Africa are tired of this Government. I believe there has been so many failures, so many broken promises, so many statements which have not been accurate that the people no longer believe in them or have any right to believe in them. I believe the time has come for this House to show the people of South Africa an example in voting for a vote of no confidence in this Government.

Question put: That all the words after “That” stand part of the motion,

Upon which the House divided:

Ayes—41: Basson, J. A. L.; Basson. I. D. du P.; Bronkhorst, H. J.; Connan, J. M.; Deacon, W. H. D.; Eden, G. S.; Emdin, S.; Fisher, E. L.; Graaff, De V.; Hertzog, A.; Higgerty, J. W.; Hourquebie, R. G. L.; Jacobs, G. F.; Kingwill, W. G.; Malan, E. G: Marais, D. J.; Marais, J. A.; Marais, W. T.; Mitchell, M. L.; Mool-man. T. H.; Moore, P. A.; Murray, L. G.; Oldfield, G. N.; Radford, A.; Raw, W. V.; Smith, W. J. B.; Steyn, S. J. M.; Stofberg, L. F.; Streicher. D. M.; Sutton. W. M.; Suzman, H.; Taylor, C. D.; Thompson, J O. N.; Timoney. H-M.; Wainwright, C. J. S.; Waterson, S. F.; Webber, W. T.; Wiley, J. W. E.; Wood, L. F.

Tellers: A. Hopewell and T. G. Hughes.

Noes—113: Bodenstein, P.; Botha, H. J.; Botha, M. C.; Botha, M. W.; Botha, P. W.; Botha, S. P.; Brandt, J. W.; Carr, D. M.; Coetsee, H. J.; Coetzee, B.; Coetzee, J. A.; Cruywagen, W. A.; De Jager, P. R.; Delport, W. H.; De Wet, C.; De Wet, J. M.; De Wet, M. W.; Diederichs, N.; Du Plessis, A. H.; Du Toit, J. P.; Engelbrecht, J. J.; Erasmus, A. S. D.; Erasmus, J. J. P.; Grobler, M. S. F.; Grobler, W. S. J.; Haak, J. F. W.; Havemann, W. W. B.; Hayward, S. A. S.; Henning, J. M.; Herman, F.; Heystek, J.; Holland, M. W.; Horn, J. W. L.; Janson, T. N. H.; Jurgens, J. C.; Keyter, H. C. A.; Koornhof, P. G. J.; Kotzé, S. F.; Kruger, J. T.; Langley, I.; Le Grange, L.; Le Roux, F. J.; Le Roux, P. M. K.; Lewis, H. M.; Loots, J. J.; Malan, G. F.; Malan, J. J.; Malan, W. C.; Marais, P. S.; Maree, G. de K.; Martins. H. E.; McLachlan, R.; Meyer, P. H.; Morrison, G. de V.; Mulder, C. P.; Muller, H.; Muller, S. L.; Otto, J. C.; Pansegrouw, J. S.; Pelser, P. C.; Pienaar, B.; Pieterse, R. J. J.; Potgieter, J. E; Potgieter, S. P.; Rail, J. J.; Rail, J. W.; Rail, M. J,; Raubenheimer, A. J.; Raubenheimer, A. L.; Reinecke, C. J.; Reyneke. J. P. A.; Rossouw, W. J. C.; Roux, P. C.; Sadie. N. C. van R.; Schlebusch, A. L.; Schlebusch, J. A.; Schoeman, B. J.; Schoemun. H.; Schoeman, J. C. B.; Smit, H. H.; Smith, J. D.; Swanepoel, J. W. F.; Swiegers. J. G.; Torlage, P. H.; Treurnicht, N. F.; Van Breda. A.; Van den Heever, D. J. G.; Van der Merwe, C. V.; Van der Merwe, H. D. K.; Van der M’rwe, S. W.; Van der Merwe, W. L.; Van Niekerk, M. C.; Van Rensburg, M. C. G. J.; Van Staden, J. W.; Van Tonder, J. A.; Van Vuuren, P. Z. J.; Van Zyl. J. J. B.; Venter, M. J. de la R.; Venter, W. L. D. M.; Viljoen, M.; Viljoen, P. J. van B.; Visse, J. H.; Visser, A. J.; Volker, V. A.; Vorster, B. J.; Visloo, A. H.; Vosloo, W. L.; Waring, F. W.; Wentzel, J. J. Tellers: G. P. C. Bezuidenhout, G. P. van den Berg, P. S. van der Merwe and H. J. van Wyk.

Question accordingly negatived, the words omitted and the amendment proposed by Mr. J. A. Marais dropped.

Substitution of the words proposed by the Prime Minister then put and the House divided:

Ayes—113: Bodenstein, P.; Botha. H. J.; Botha, M. C.; Botha, M. W.; Botha, P. W.; Botha, S. P.; Brandt, J. W.; Carr, D. M.; Coetsee, H. J.; Coetzee, B.; Coetzee, J. A.; Cruywagen, W. A.; De Jager, P. R.; Delport, W. H.; De Wet, C.; De Wet, J. M.; De Wet, M. W.; Diederichs, N;.; Du Plessis, A. H.; Du Toit, J. P.; Engelbrecht, J. J.; Erasmus, A. S. D.; Erasmus, J. J. P.; Grobler, M. S. F.; Grobler, W. S. J.; Haak, J. F. W.; Havemann, W. W. B.; Hayward, S. A. S.; Herman, F.; Heystek, J.; Holland, M. W.; Horn, J. W. L.; Janson, T. N. H.; Jurgens, J. C.; Keyter, H. C. A.; Koornhof, P. G. J.; Kotzé, S. F.; Kruger, J. T.; Langley, T.; Le Grange, L.; Le Roux, F. J.; Le Roux, P. M. K.; Lewis, H. M.; Loots, J. J.; Malan, G. F.; Malan, J. J.; Malan, W. C.; Marais, P. S.; Maree, G. de K.; Martins, H. E.; McLachlan, R.; Meyer, P. H.; Morrison, G. de V.; Mulder, C. P.; Muller, H.; Muller, S. L.; Otto, J. C.; Pansegrouw, J. S.; Pelser, P. C.; Pienaar, B.; Pieterse, R. J. J.; Potgieter, J. E.; Potgieter, S. P.; Rail, J. J.; Rail, J. W.; Rail, M. J.; Raubenheimer, A. J.; Raubenheimer, A, L.; Reinecke, C. J.; Reyneke, J. P. A.; Rossouw, W. J. C.; Roux, P. C.; Sadie, N. C. van R.; Schlebusch, A. L.; Schlebusch, J. A.; Schoeman, B. J.; Schoeman, H.; Schoeman, J. C. B.; Smit, H. H.; Smith, J. D.; Swanepoel, J. W. F.; Swiegers, J. G.; Torlage, P. H.; Treurnicht, N. F.; Van Breda, A.; Van den Heever, D. J. G.; Van der Merwe, C. V.; Van der Merwe, H. D. K.; Van der Merwe, S. W.; Van der Merwe, W. L.; Van Niekerk, M. C.; Van Rensburg, M. C. G. J.; Van Staden, J. W.; Van Tonder, J. A.; Van Vuuren, P. Z. J.; Van Zyl, J. J. B.; Venter, M. J. de la R.; Venter, W. L. D. M.; Viljoen, M.; Viljoen, P. J. van B.; Visse, J. H.; Visser, A. J.; Volker, V. A.; Vorster, B. J.; Vorster, L. P. J.; Vosloo, A. H.; Vosloo, W. L.; Waring, F. W.; Wentzel, J. J.

Tellers: G. P. C. Bezuidenhout, G. P. van den Berg, P. S. van der Merwe and H. J. van Wyk.

Noes—37: Basson, J. A. L.; Basson, J. D. du P.; Bronkhorst, H. J.; Connan, J. M.; Deacon, W. H. D.; Eden, G. S.; Emdin, S.; Fisher, E. L.; Graaff, De V.; Higgerty, J. W.; Hourquebie, R. G. L.; Jacobs, G. F.; Kingwill, W. G.; Malan, E. G.; Marais, D. J.; Mitchell, M. L.; Moolman, J. H.; Moore, P. A.; Murray. L. G.; Oldfield, G. N.; Radford, A.; Raw, W. V.; Smith, W. J. B.; Steyn, S. J. M.; Streicher, D. M.; Sutton, W. M.; Suzman, H.; Taylor, C. D.; Thompson, J. O. N.; Timoney, H. M.; Wainwright, C. J. S.; Waterson, S. F.; Webber, W. T.; Wiley, J. W. E.; Wood L. F. Tellers: A. Hopewell and T. G. Hughes.

Substitution of the words agreed to.

Motion, as amended, accordingly agreed to, viz: “That this House reaffirms its full confidence in the National Party and the manner in which it governs South Africa and in which it deals with the internal and external problems of the country.”

The House adjourned at 6.22 p.m.

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