I move—

Agreed to.

I move—

Mr. Speaker, the first time I gave notice of this Bill was in 1965, and old members will remember that on that occasion as well as on the 14th May, 1965, when I made the second-reading speech, I fully explained the Bill, and showed that the provisions and principles underlying this Bill were not new, but that they were mainly a résumé of the principles embodied in the Defence Act and other legislation. I think that old members will agree with me that it will, for the greater part, be a waste of the time of the House if I were to traverse that same road and to make that same speech which old members have already heard and which new members have had the opportunity of studying fully in Hansard. I am told, Sir, and I am very grateful for it, that new members are so eager to learn and to work that there is hardly a single one of them who has not yet familiarized himself fully with this Bill. We are now dealing with a Bill which, unfortunately, has to be introduced, but one would hope and trust, of course, that it will never be necessary to make use of the provisions of this Bill. At the very outset I want to draw the attention of hon. members to the fact that the provisions of this Bill do not apply to South West Africa. There has been a request that it should in fact be applied to South West Africa, and in accordance with the procedure of the House I shall have to ask for an instruction from the House on a later occasion for the purpose of inserting that provision at the Committee Stage. I shall do that in due course.

The underlying principle of this Bill is the protection and the safeguarding of the civilian population in order to alleviate as far as possible the distress inevitably caused to civilians in time of war, and experience has unfortunately shown that, unlike the case of wars in by-gone days, civilians are to an ever-increasing extent becoming the victims of circumstances caused by war. For that reason it has become essential not only for us, but also for every country in the world that such an organization should be established in order to alleviate as far as possible the distress caused to civilians in time of war. We in South Africa are in the fortunate position that for more than 60 years we have not had to wage war on our own soil. We are also in the fortunate position, for which we can be very grateful, that unlike other regions we have not had to deal with earthquakes and other major acts of God, which would have made it necessary for such an organization to step in. We have in fact had minor disasters, but the usual organizations were capable of dealing with those disasters. The principle of this Bill, therefore, is that the civilian population should be safeguarded as far as possible, and coupled with that this Bill seeks to allow matters to take a course as near as possible to normal during the state of emergency. That is the underlying principle, and you will remember, Sir, that the hon. the Leader of the Opposition has already indicated that as far as the principle of this Bill is concerned, there is no disagreement between this side and that side of the House. I foresee that we shall have a fruitful discussion, not only at the second-reading stage, but in particular at the Committee Stage, and I shall really welcome it if hon. members would think freely about these matters, seeing that we are in the position that, owing to the circumstances I have sketched, very few of us, if any, have any personal experience of disasters or of wars on our own soil and of the consequences arising from those events for the civilian population. In drafting this Bill, we therefore had to draw on the experience of other countries which were in a much better position to judge and which had experienced war on their own soil in recent times; and as for the rest, as I have already said, we made use of the existing provisions in our legislation for dealing with matters of this nature. This Bill proposes to establish the organization, the Directorate of Emergency Planning. I shall leave it to hon. members to give their opinions freely on whether or not the name is the correct one. We are fortunate in that where we have not had precedents and where we have often had to break into new territory, we have found in the person of the Director, Mr. van der Walt, a person who is intensely interested in this matter and who has made a very thorough study of matters affecting this Bill, and who has established, in the short time during which he has been charged with this matter, a very thorough basic organization for safeguarding civilians in South Africa.

For the purposes of this Bill, the Directorate, after consulting the military authorities, who are after all the people whose point of view has to be the decisive one, divided the Republic into what they called 13 target areas. Of those 13 target areas four are situated at the Witwatersrand. If one were to take the whole of the Witwatersrand as one target area, the organization would be too large and too clumsy. After making a thorough study of the matter, we divided the Witwatersrand into four divisions. In addition to these there are the following target areas: Pretoria, Durban, Pietermaritzburg, Bloemfontein, the Ver-eeniging-Sasol-Vanderbijl complex, Cape Town, East London, Port Elizabeth and Pietersburg. Those are the 13 target areas, and in charge of each of those target areas is an area controller, who is either a retired military or police officer. They will set up the necessary organization in consultation with the Directorate. Adjoining the target areas there are certain auxiliary areas. Thus, for instance, Kimberley is an auxiliary area for Bloemfontein, Queenstown for East London, Stellenbosch and the Strand for Cape Town, and so forth. If necessary, I shall have more to say about that.

The task imposed upon the area controllers by this Bill I can briefly summarize as follows. In the first place it is their duty to provide a blueprint for action in the event of the occurrence of any of the contingencies visualized by the provisions of the Act. Hon. members will realize that it is often the case that many of these disasters occur suddenly, without any prior notice. At such times it is imperative that there should be an organization which has time at its disposal and which specializes in planning what steps should be taken in the event of the occurrence of the various disasters which are visualized, and such steps should be taken immediately. If one wants to save lives or alleviate distress, it is of little avail if one arrives at the scene a day or two or a few days after the disaster has occurred.

Secondly, this organization is charged with safeguarding certain strategic industries and works. I am not talking about safeguarding them against attacks made in time of war—that is not their task but that of the military—but about seeing to it that the necessary measures are taken by industries and advice is given to them on how to protect the industry itself against riots, or on how to keep the industry going indoors in time of war, and how to take the necessary measures there. It is also the function of the organization to train people so that they might render the necessary assistance. As for the rest, and this is a particularly important function, it is expected of the organization—and to a very large extent it has already covered that field—that, in case of disaster, identification of buildings, premises and material should be made in good time, so that instead of groping about at that stage, one would know exactly where things are and where requirements may be obtained. A very important function of this organization is to co-ordinate and to supplement existing services thereof, and I shall have more to say about that in a moment. It is also their function to prepare the public by means of information on how to behave under given circumstances. I shall refer in greater detail to 11 of the headings I have just mentioned.

As regards the preparation of blueprint plans, I can inform the House that since we last met here full plans have either been finalized or are in the process of being finalized, which will make it possible to have at our disposal in the event of any contingency a basic organization in order to do what may be required. They have been drafted in the closest consultation with the State Departments, the Provincial Administrations, local authorities and other bodies such as the C.S.I.R. and other interested parties. I should like to avail myself of this opportunity to express my gratitude for and my appreciation of the co-operation given by everybody in this regard. In passing I should also point out that the Directorate is experiencing one difficulty, and that is that the public simply does not want to take this matter seriously. A large section of the public believes that something such as is visualized in this Bill will simply never occur. Of course, we all pray that it will not occur. We hope that it will not occur, but we simply dare not take up the attitude that it will not. This is the insurance one has to take out, the money one has to spend, and one will be very grateful if such a disaster does not occur and it appears that one has spent the money in vain. I shall therefore appreciate it if all hon. members would on their part encourage the public in the circles in which they move to give the necessary cooperation in this regard.

Various technical committees have been established under these area controllers, and liaison officers have been appointed amongst the civilian population to launch this organization smoothly. Here one is, of course, faced with the problem that one does not have at one’s disposal all the money one would like to invest in such an organization and that one does not have the surplus man-power one would like to use in this organization, but I can assure hon. members that, taking into consideration the funds we have at our disposal,, we have negotiated as far as was necessary with all local bodies and all persons who have to be brought into the matter, and that we have established a very solid basic organization.

I want to deal with the matter of safeguarding strategic industries and works. Hon. members will remember that in the past this duty was entrusted to the police. It has been felt that this organization is par excellence the organization which should make a study of this matter, as it has in fact done. I have already pointed out in passing that it is not merely a question of fencing in and protecting the industry against undesirable intrusion; one has to go further because in times of disaster it may be necessary for the workers in that industry to continue their work and then it is one’s duty to take the necessary steps in that industry, on the actual premises itself, to safeguard to the utmost those workers who have to perform work which is essential to the State. The Directorate has frequently consulted industrialists and I am very glad that very good co-operation has been obtained and that the necessary has been done in virtually every case. A very important aspect of the matter is the training of persons to treat the injured in the event of disaster, to alleviate distress and to rescue people who may be trapped by rubble. In this regard we have also sought the close co-operation of the various first-aid organizations such as the Noodhulpliga, St. John’s and other organizations, and I am glad to be able to tell hon. members that classes have been arranged in the target areas through the kind offices of these organizations, and that it has been calculated that between 12,000 and 15,000 people have availed themselves of the facilities to attend these classes and to receive the necessary instruction.

However, we must go further than that. We also have to provide advanced training for first-aid assistants, doctors and nurses, because treating the injured under war conditions is, of course, quite different from treating people under normal conditions. It is quite a different matter for a first-aid assistant to help people under war conditions than to help people injured in a rugby match. I may also add that a course in home-nursing, a very comprehensive course, has been drawn up in close co-operation with the nursing order. It is being printed at present and it will be made available to the public soon. In dealing with training, these two aspects are particularly important: care of the injured on the one hand and, on the other hand, fire-fighting and removing victims trapped by rubble. In this Bill we visualize that we shall have to deal mainly with disasters such as fire and rubble. In passing I draw hon. members’ attention to the fact that fire-fighting is, of course, the responsibility and the function of local authorities. It is, however, the case that local authorities only have the fire-fighting machinery required to meet their minimum normal needs. In war conditions, however, we shall find, as other countries have found, that the machinery one has at one’s disposal should not merely be more or less adequate; one would then have to draw upon all manner of auxiliary machinery. We have therefore also co-operated very closely with the fire-fighting divisions of the local authorities. We have laid down certain minimum standards, and projects have been discussed to supplement the equipment of local authorities where it may be necessary. However, it will of course be to no avail if we have the necessary fire-brigade lorries and have stored up the foam required for that purpose, but do not have the people to work this equipment. For that reason it will be necessary, and this Bill makes it possible, to train the necessary people to act as fire-fighters in times of emergency. We shall train them in the closest consultation with the local authorities which do have the necessary machinery at their disposal, and I am glad to be able to tell hon. members that some of the larger city councils have not only offered their co-operation in this regard, but also have the necessary accommodation at their disposal to enable us to train the necessary people to serve as helpers as soon as this Bill is passed. Hon. members will notice that there is a clause which makes it possible for volunteers to enroll for the purpose of undergoing training. We shall be very grateful if they come forward in sufficient numbers, but if they do not, we will have to conscript people for compulsory training, however reluctant we may be to do so, because I repeat that it will be of very little use to us to have acquired all the machinery and not to have the people who know how to fight fires or how to rescue people trapped by rubble.

A very important aspect is the question of identifying buildings. Hon. members will find that in Clause 3 of the Bill. It is necessary that in the midst of disaster, in the midst of war, the Central Government, the Provincial Administrations and local authorities should continue their business. It will of course be impossible for them to do so if they do not have the necessary premises at their disposal. During our previous discussion of this Bill, I gave hon. members examples of this. One of the duties of this organization is therefore to identify various centres and buildings so that, if the need arises, they may immediately furnish the Central Government, the Provincial Administrations or the local authorities with the neccessary information as to where the necessary accommodation for continuing their business might be found, and this organization does of course have the power to commandeer, on behalf of those bodies, such buildings as may be necessary for the continuation of their business if it should become necessary to do so. These systems of government, of course, do not have their own ways and means of commandeering such accommodation. I shall mention another example: there is the matter of treating the injured. In each of the target areas the controllers have made a complete survey of available hospital facilities. For instance, it may happen that those facilities are not sufficient in a time of disaster, and then it is the duty of this organization—and it has also been provided for—not only to indicate other premises where an emergency hospital, for instance, can be erected, but also to determine where the necessary furniture can be obtained for putting that hospital into operation immediately. The question of evacuating people is a very important one. It goes without saying that most people will be in a position to look after themselves and to move out of a disaster-stricken area, but there are many people in children’s homes, homes for the aged and hospitals who, with the best will in the world, cannot look after themselves. They have to be identified and places to which these people can be taken have to be identified.

These things have already been seen to and I have thought it proper to give the House an idea of what has been done so that hon. members might fully realize that we have not been idle in the past years, but that we have indeed done the necessary.

I have dealt with the principle of the Bill. In passing I just want to point out to hon. members once again that the important aspect of the Bill is the question of defining a state of emergency. Hon. members will find that in Clause 1, which deals with definitions. The gist of the Bill is contained in Clause 3, which deals with the various duties of this Directorate and what is envisaged in terms of the provisions of this Bill.

After this explanation, Sir, I trust that we shall have the co-operation of everybody in this House. After all, this Bill is no political measure, but a Bill dealing with the interests of all of us and we are all only concerned with alleviating as far as possible the distress which may be caused by conditions prevailing in times of war and disaster.

Sir, as indicated when this Bill was before the House on a previous occasion, there is no disagreement between the Government and ourselves as to the importance of this legislation and the desirability of its being passed. Having listened, however, to what has already been done without any legislation, one wonders whether this legislation is really so necessary in the light of what the Minister has managed to achieve without the powers for which he is asking. It is obvious, of course, that the principle underlying the Bill has our complete support; that the Bill seeks to take over where other legislation has left off and that while in a large measure it is a consolidating bill, it also extends the scope of the activities of the Department which the Minister has created. We are extremely grateful to the Minister for having given us a bird’s-eye view of the work already undertaken, the planning that has been done and the progress made. I think I can assure him that his appeal to members of Parliament on this side of the House to try to ensure that there is civilian co-operation will not fall on deaf ears, and if he does need assistance in jogging the elbow of the Minister of Finance in order to get more money from him, he might find that his appeals will not fall on deaf ears as far as this side of the House is concerned.

I think what has been done already shows that fundamentally the three principles of emergency planning have been followed, namely, that where one seeks to prepare plans of this kind, there should be as great a measure of decentralization as possible in the plans made; that there should be strategic stock piling and identification of equipment and supplies, and that there should be long-range preparation of plans which can be put into practice at very short notice. What the Minister has told us is indicative of the fact that that has already been undertaken. I think where we have a difference of opinion with the Minister is in the manner in which he seeks to exercise his power. To-day he has given us a bird’s-eye view of what he has been doing. When last he spoke he dealt with the provisions of the Bill, and he will forgive me if I deal with both speeches this afternoon. I think we differ in this respect that we are not satisfied that sufficient use is being made of existing machinery, and we are not entirely sure that this Department should be controlled by the Minister of Justice. You see, Sir, the whole experience in Great Britain, which is a country that has experienced the effects of war on its own soil in recent years, has pointed to the fact that small self-contained units should be established to operate independently in times of chaos. Those units should be as decentralized as possible and as small as possible within reason. The tendency has been in Britain to give each ministry and its sub-departments a little more work to do and then to coordinate through the Department of the Home Secretary or, in the case of South Africa, through the Ministry of the Interior. It would seem here that while co-operating with existing organizations we are creating a new department with the danger of it becoming top-heavy and the danger of Parkinson’s law applying.

No, it is a skeleton department.

I accept that it is a skeleton department but we have seen skeleton departments started before and sometimes becoming quite fat and bulging with the passage of years, not only in South Africa but in other countries of the world. Parkinson’s law does apply without any doubt and I am not happy yet that this danger is being avoided in this legislation. If you look at the American precedents as well you find that while the Defence Department takes a big responsibility under the Civil Defence Act of 1950 they have an administrator working through the State Governors and the mayors and the municipal authorities throughout the country so as to introduce as little new departmental work as possible and make use of existing organizations to the absolute maximum. Sir, I am not satisfied that there is sufficient emphasis on that in this legislation, and I am also not satisfied that the Ministry of Justice should be the co-ordinating Department. It is true it already has control of the Police Force and therefore it has a very wide network. My own feeling would be that the Department of the Interior might be a more suitable department, just as in England where the co-operation falls under the Home Secretary, which is the equivalent of our Minister of the Interior. I do not propose to make an issue of this, but I think it is something which we may well discuss in committee. After all, it is the Minister of the Interior who has the coordinating link with the provincial councils—between the provincial counsels and the divisional councils in the Cape—and has a certain measure of control, through his Administrators, of the various municipal bodies in the country. It seems to me that there is already a ready-made network which might very usefully be employed in this work, perhaps more effectively than the Department of Justice. The hon. the Minister on a previous occasion told us that his reason for the different form of organization that he was envisaging in this Bill, was that because, what he was planning for, was the period between the disaster and the various existing Governmental departments being able to come into operation. I understand that to be the case, and he emphasized that in previous speeches. But that is not mentioned in this Bill, Mr. Speaker. There is no mention of it whatever. In fact, there is no time limit, so to speak, for the operation of this Bill. It comes into operation at once …

Your answer is in Clause 3 (2) of the Bill.

No, it is not. Because the position is that while those are the objectives which are set out, the fact is certain planning has to be done now for which certain authority is necessary under this Bill. Certain regulations can be made under this Bill which are not limited in time or in scope. For that reason it seems to me that this Bill can continue to operate as long as the hon. the Minister thinks an emergency exists, and certain other powers can be used even when there is no emergency at all. Now, the hon. the Minister has previously expressed the hope that he will have to use these powers for as short a period as possible, and he does not want to extend them. I have no doubt that is his object. But, Mr. Speaker, we have to deal with various individuals at various times, there will be different incumbents of the post, and I think we want to have that fairly clearly limited in the legislation so that we know where we are.

I also have an uneasy feeling, Sir, that there is not enough decentralization. The principle followed overseas—as I have indicated before—is a little extra work for each department as opposed to the creation of new departments. It seems to me there is not as much scope here for the local authority, which is the very essence of the British system and, to an extent, the essence of the American system. I think that is borne out by Section 2 (2) (a) of the Civil Defence Act of 1948 of Great Britain dealing with the regulations made under the Act. These indicate to what extent the local authorities can be used and the pressure that can be brought to bear upon them. Section 2 fl) deals with the functions of the local and the police authorities in various parts of the country.

I know, Sir, that in peace time the chief tasks are to keep a local organization in being as a framework for expansion in the various areas, to provide training and equipment, and to proceed with essential research and, where necessary, stockpiling and planning. That may very well require centralized planning, and does require centralized planning. But I still have this worry that we may have a department which becomes too top-heavy, which becomes too centralized, with a result that the units are not sufficiently decentralized for action in case of emergency. I also have the worry that though the target areas have been defined and the auxiliary areas defined, insufficient attention has been given to the agricultural areas, and I think perhaps also to the Bantu reserves, where we may be faced with the problems of a very serious kind indeed. I have been very pleased to see certain advice given to farmers through the Government publication Farming in South Africa, but, of course, Sir, this is a vast subject. It is a subject that is going to require a temendous amount of research and a tremendous amount of training. Unless it is brought pertinently to the notice of the public we may very easily find our food supplies affected. We may very easily find in the Bantu areas, where there has not been proper or responsible training, conditions developing which will not be easy to contain. So much for the general approach.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I should like to say one or two things about the Bill itself. It seems odd that where there is a Bill in which so much emphasis should be on decentralization, you find in Clause 5 dealing with delegation powers, that it expressly excludes the power of sub-delegation. I would have though sub-delegation to be vitally necessary. It would be particularly necessary in the event of thermonuclear attack, atomic attack, particularly in the target areas. I would have thought the officials should have the power to appoint people, but this power the Minister seeks expressly to exclude. It would be particularly important in cases of fire-fighting, the control of local transport services, and in peculiar matters, such as the Durban telephone exchange which is controlled by the local municipality.

I was worried, too, by Clause 6. It seems that the provisions for financial assistance are clumsy in the extreme. Financial assistance seems to be limited to actions taken in consultation with the hon. the Minister of Finance. Now, in an actual emergency there may not be a Minister of Finance to consult with at all. But when there is no emergency, surely we should have more regular methods of controlling expenditure? It seems to me also. Sir. that the provisions of the Bill do not grant the Minister responsible for administering this legislation much scone. I wonder whether it would not be wise to differentiate between activities of this directorate in normal times and its activities in times of emergency. The Minister should be given full powers in an emergency.

You have that under the Emergency Act.

What Act is that?

I refer to the Public Safety Act of 1953.

I will deal with that in a moment, Mr. Speaker. It seems to me that one has two different types of emergency here. An emergency under the Public Safety Act is different from this type of emergency. It is defined entirely differently. While we do have a certain measure of overlapping, they do not coincide entirely. You have two different states of affairs arising. An emergency under this legislation is different from an emergency under the Public Safety Act—it is a wider type of emergency. I should like to see the hon. the Minister armed with the fullest powers to deal with an emergency under this Bill.

If it is otherwise, you have the War Measures Act.

Mr. Speaker, the hon. the Minister will find we have three types of emergency in South Africa. In the Defence Act there is a state of war. In the Public Safety Act the State President has to be satisfied as to certain things. And then there is this Bill, which is the widest of the lot, because it defines a disaster and refers to the opinion of this hon. the Minister as to the existence of an emergency. So we have three different types of emergency. They cannot coincide, because they are not the same. There is a possibility that while there is overlapping, in certain situations they will not overlap. I think that it is unnecessary to limit the powers of the hon. the Minister in certain circumstances. The same applies to sub-sections (2) and (3) of Clause 3 of the Bill. Why should the Minister’s powers there be limited to the extent that he may only exercise them in consultation with the Department of State in question? In a state of emergency he should be entitled to act on his own.

Clause 9 provides for the protection of employees in the event of their receiving compulsory training. But there is no protection whatever for people who volunteer for training. They can be victimized by their employers, and no protection is given to them in terms of this Bill at all. I know that the protection of volunteers is rather a difficult question with which to deal, but it seems to me, Sir, that this is either an important national service or it is not. And if it is an important national service then it seems to me that steps should be taken to try and ensure that volunteers are also protected. Now, Mr. Speaker, I wonder if it is realized how many people may be involved. I have been looking through the figures for Great Britain, and I see that in 1962 there were no less than 680,000 volunteers undergoing regular training under the civil defence scheme in Great Britain. They have a population of between 50,000,000 and 60,000,000, and Britain is a closely populated country. We have a population of between 15,000,000 and 16,000,000 and we are not a closely populated country. So obviously we can manage with far fewer participants. But. Sir, even at a conservative estimate, we may find numbers involved far in excess of the entire strength of our police force to-day, for instance, as well as the entire strength of the Permanent Force. I am not referring to the citizens force. Therefore I think it is so vitally important that the question of protection for the volunteer should be given attention. Otherwise we will not have anywhere near the required number of personnel to ensure an efficient service in South Africa.

Another matter that worries me is the power to make regulations. Clause 18 refers to that aspect. That power is in no way subject to review by Parliament. Regulations made under this clause are not subject to review at all. That seems to be an unhappy situation. In Great Britain under the Civil Defence Act of 1948, Section 8 (3) makes provision for Parliament to review regulations. I quote—

1. (a) may make different provisions for different cases or classes of cases.

Sub-section (3) reads—

We find the same provision in the Public Safety Act of 1953. In terms of that Act the State President declares an emergency. But provision exists for parliamentary control of regulations made under the Act. It seems to me as though most of these regulations will be made before there is an actual emergency in existence. It seems as if they should be subject to parliamentary control.

I have not the slightest objection to that.

In that case suitable amendments will be moved in the Committee Stage.

As I said before, Sir, we have three types of emergency if the provisions of this Bill are also considered. One wonders whether it is not possible for a measure of co-ordination as regards these three types of emergency to be obtained. Because, Sir, there will be a fair amount of overlapping. There will be a state of affairs where the Public Safety Act applies, which will be an emergency under this Act. We will have two sets of regulations applying, one of which will have to come before Parliament. There will also be a certain amount of overlapping of powers and functions under the two Acts. It should not be beyond the ingenuity of our draftsmen to try and create one consolidated measure ensuring a measure of parliamentary supervision, but preventing the overlapping which is likely to take place.

Clause 4 deals with indemnity against loss or damage arising out of directions given. Now, it is very difficult to know what is meant by directions given under this Act. Is there any limitation to directions given under the Act? There is a clear definition of actions taken under the Act. But what is the position in respect of directions given under the Act?

I am also interested to find that in terms of the licence given to Radio South Africa there are certain conditions under which direction and control of the radio can be taken over by the Government of the day. Does that emergency coincide with the emergency under this Bill? Is the definition of the two the same? Will we not find ourselves having an emergency in terms of this legislation, and not being able to take over Radio South Africa, and vice versa?

The whole essence of planning of this nature is the creation of alternative authorities to replace any authorities which are destroyed or fall by the wayside. It is also essential that there be a very careful direction of manpower to ensure that there is not such a measure of duplication as to result in the employment of personnel under this Bill who are also vitally important personnel in other vital spheres which are also affected at the same time. It is so easy to get hold of a good man and give him a number of jobs. But very often in time of emergency you find you need the same man for three or four different jobs. You may also find you need him simultaneously for two vitally important jobs which are mutually exclusive and your organization tends to be disrupted. It seems to me that it is absolutely essential that the whole question of the control of manpower should be investigated very carefully indeed, and I wondered whether it was not something to which the Ministry of Labour should give a good deal of attention. I have in mind especially the sort of situation which might arise if we have internal riots or similar occurrences.

Then there is the question of payment of compensation to individuals under the Act in regard to which it will be necessary to prove negligence. It seems quite possible that there may be numbers of cases of this nature in the event of an emergency. Now, I wonder whether it would not be wiser to establish something in the nature of a national assistance board—which, I believe, has operated in certain countries—before whom claims could be brought for speedy settlement. Because, Sir, in an emergency one may have a number of claims coming forward and because the courts may not function for quite some time, it may be a long time before an individual can get any form of compensation. In the meanwhile his claim cannot be dealt with. If we had such a board, or something of that sort, with power to dispose of claims speedily, the system might be streamlined to a considerable extent.

The hon. the Minister has given us an outline of the plans so far, but one wonders whether he is getting the co-operation from local authorities for which one would have hoped.

Local authorities’ co-operation is the whole basis of the organization.

I know, Sir, but from what I have heard a number of local authorities have not undertaken the surveys desired by the hon. Minister’s Department.

We are receiving the best co-operation from the local authorities.

I am very glad to hear that. I was led to believe that there had been a great deal of delay in certain areas, that a backlog had arisen, and that there was a lack of that sense of urgency which is so vital for a matter of this kind. The hon. the Minister himself complained that the public were not showing the hoped-for interest in this matter, and I wondered when he spoke whether sufficient attention was being given to this matter of fall-out shelters. I have been reading the directives in the United States of America. According to these, civil defence planning must be contingency planning, and the fall-out shelters constitute the core of civil defence. First emphasis must be given to planning the best use of the best shelter available at any time, which is of itself a broad effort involving not only obtaining the shelters and making them ready, but also planning their use, including assignment, warning, shelter management, etc. All civil defence programming is built on the shelter basis. Now, I know the Minister said in a previous speech that he did not regard the provision of shelters as practical here in South Africa. I think I am correct in saying that. I gained the impression that there was not much attention being given to this problem.

No, we are busy adapting existing buildings and building new buildings.

Yes, I have seen certain of the literature given out by the Department, and I think the Minister and his Department should be congratulated on it, but I wonder whether we have gone quite far enough. You see, Sir, some of our target areas are as closely populated as any target areas in Europe or in most countries of the world. Where a country the size of the United States, with its own vast open spaces, gives as much attention to this question of the necessity for fall-out shelters. I wonder whether it is getting enough attention here in South Africa at present. It is not strictly covered by any provision of the Bill, but it does seem that when we are discussing a matter of this kind it is vitally important that more attention should be devoted to that particular aspect of the problem.

Another matter to which I do not think sufficient attention has been given is the whole question of water, the contamination of water and the provision of alternative water supplies. It would be very easy in certain areas, by contaminating our water supplies, to put vast industrial complexes out of action altogether, and unless attention is given to the provision of alternative water supplies that might be the weak link of this whole civil defence programme here. Now I know there are some people who say that if you have a Polaris missile fired from a submarine off the coast which is able to bombard all your major centres, you are for it anyhow and what is the good of worrying? Sir, I am afraid I do not share that view. I know there are estimates that a very large section of the civilian population, a very high percentage, may succumb to the very first attacks which come without warning, but if we have made proper provision for shelters and if we have proper planning it should be possible nevertheless to save a very real percentage of our population, and to save the percentage of the population which may really matter in maintaining the position in South Africa and in regard to building up again in the future. Therefore I say to the Minister that when it comes to jogging the arm of the hon. the Minister of Finance on this matter, his appeals will not fall on deaf ears on this side of the House. There are some of us who have had experience, not of thermonuclear warfare but of the sort of situation which did develop in Europe in the last war, and we know to what extent you may have a complete dislocation of the local civilian authority as the result even of heavy bombing. When you have atomic bombing, one can well imagine the sort of situation that could develop.

I think those are the main points to which I wish to draw the Minister’s attention at this stage. There will be certain proposals coming before him in the Committee Stage. There will be certain individuals on this side who will wish to direct his attention to particular aspects of the legislation, but he can rest assured that this legislation has our support and we will do our best to convert it into as efficient a piece of legislation as possible on the statute book.

Mr. Speaker, during my rugby days I was taught that a player lost his nervousness immediately after the first ball had been kicked off at the commencement of a match. Allow me to believe, in order to inspire myself with some courage, that the ball has been duly kicked off and that I may proceed with my speech. As a newcomer I feel myself at liberty to participate in this debate for two reasons. The first is that the hon. the Leader of the Opposition intimated on a previous occasion that he would raise no objections to the main principles of this Bill. This afternoon that attitude in respect of the main principles was reiterated in this House by the hon. the Leader of the Opposition. Secondly, we know that the densely populated areas of a country are usually the most severely hit by the miseries caused by an emergency. Having the honour to represent a constituency like Port Elizabeth Central in this House—a constituency which is one of the smallest geographical constituencies in South Africa and, accordingly, one of the most densely populated areas in our country—I know that if we should be faced with an emergency in respect of which proper preparations had not been made, the population, in particular the civilians and their property, would be very hard hit by such an emergency. What is more, the Port Elizabeth and Uitenhage areas contain many large industrial institutions. Our constituency is situated in the heart of that area and includes many important targets such as the harbour, the Post Office with all its ramifications, the seats of the Municipality and the Divisional Council, the High and the lower courts and nine large primary schools, so that it is obvious that emergency planning is of great importance to us; and what applies to the Port Elizabeth-Uitenhage complex applies to all the target areas in our country. I therefore find it a very great privilege to be able to support this Bill as far as its main principles are concerned. In any discussion of the main principles the question naturally arises: What is emergency planning?

It has been said in South Africa that the blueness of our mountains and the stillness of our plains and our rolling hills are the language of our country, but we must admit that this beloved country has known time of adversity and disaster. We need only think of the Three Years’ War, the great flood in Port Elizabeth in 1908, the influenza epidemic of 1918 and the Roodepoort tornado in 1948. Then we have to admit that we have indeed been privileged that our country has not been more severely and more often afflicted by disaster and strife. In that very fact lies our problem in respect of emergency planning. Because our country and our people have not been afflicted often, we have gained very little experience of those disasters. But on the other hand, just as in other matters our Government is always alive to the needs of our country and its people—as we have seen once more this afternoon—it has, like other civilized countries, already taken measures for the protection of the civilian population against the possible effects of a state of emergency. Hence the name emergency planning. To my way of thinking emergency planning is civilian defence for the sake of ensuring national security, and if we want to save lives and property we have to plan and prepare well in advance because that holds the key to our continued existence. For that reason we need emergency planning. We all hope for peace and prosperity, and in this country, more so than in many other countries, we are fortunate in that we continue to enjoy these blessings, but we must never lose sight of the nature of modern warfare and of what the fate of civilians will be in the event of something like that happening. We know that it is necessary to maintain our Defence Force for military defence purposes, and in the same way it is necessary to maintain our Police Force in order to ensure internal security, but it is equally essential that we should streamline our civil defence and should keep it going all the time in order to protect our civilians in times of emergency and adversity.

A large number of important principles are involved in this Bill, and although most of these principles are as old as the hills, it is necessary for us to modernize, to co-ordinate and to create machinery to meet modern circumstances. To me the essence of this Bill is to provide for the more effective combating of the misery which might result from an emergency. With that in view, I notice that this Bill has two main facets, on the one hand to empower the State to make such preparations as would enable it to combat a state of emergency; and on the other hand to enable it to act very quickly and very effectively in times of emergency. During the remainder of the time at my disposal I want to deal with a few of the main principles of this Bill.

Clause 1 defines the concept of a state of emergency very clearly. What it adds up to is that it is a state which arises in the event of war, internal riots or any disaster, whether local or national in character, including acts of God. Machinery has to be created for the purpose of combating these disasters, and the kingpin in that emergency planning machinery is the Directorate of Emergency Planning, whose object it will be to take measures, in addition to those taken under the Defence Act, the Police Act and the Public Safety Act, for the purpose of providing the Republic and its inhabitants with the greatest possible measure of protection and assistance in an emergency and, in the second place, combating civilian disruption during such an emergency. For those important services manpower is of course required, people who can serve as firemen, as nurses, as first-aid men, people who have to be trained and prepared to form part of this large organization. Clause 9 provides for compulsory training and service, if necessary. This principle has been accepted by us and by all the civilized countries in the world. We have it in our Defence Act as well. In Clause 10 the Bill further provides that voluntary services may be employed. In Clause 12 the Bill provides that the State President may establish or designate institutions for the training of those people. I believe that the people of South Africa will welcome these important provisions, for here they are being afforded the opportunity of preparing themselves to perform services for their fellowmen and country in the true sense of the word. For the sake of our country and its people it is essential that we shall always be prepared in the event of an emergency and in order to be prepared we have to plan purposefully and unwaveringly. In this connection we think of the two major youth organizations in our country. We think of the motto of the Boy Scouts, which is “Be Prepared”, and of that of the Voortrekker movement, which is “Hou Koers”. We believe that it will be possible in due course to include these youth movements in our survival services.

Finally, I know and I trust that, through the opportunities which are being created here, the people of South Africa will be able to do their share in providing the noblest service of all, service to their people and their country.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to congratulate the hon. member for Port Elizabeth (Central) on his maiden speech in this House. He made an earnest and constructive contribution to the debate, which augurs very well indeed for success in the future in this House.

I rise to support the general principles of this Bill; I feel that the Government is quite right in making the necessary preparations to deal with any state of emergency which might arise in our country. The Government has a duty to protect this country and its inhabitants, and I see this Bill as a necessary legal measure to enable the Government to take unto itself all the legal powers to deal with all aspects which might arise in a time of emergency. A Bill of this nature is by no means exclusive to the Republic of South Africa. In the U.S.A, and the U.K. and France, just to mention a few countries, there exist legal measures to deal with emergency planning and with all the necessary steps the Government is entitled to take for the protection of their respective countries and their inhabitants. I have no doubt that similar laws exist in most countries of the world. Indeed, in the course of the hon. the Minister’s speech last year when introducing this Bill he referred to the fact that similar legislation exists in various other countries and that this Bill follows to a very large extent the pattern of legislation in those countries. As the Minister said last year, this measure must be seen in the light of the fact that we are living in a dangerous world and, like any other country, South Africa must be prepared to protect its citizens from any catastrophe that may hit us. In these circumstances, therefore. I am certain that this emergency planning Bill will receive the wholehearted support of the entire House and of all well-disposed citizens in our country.

There is one aspect in regard to this emergency planning which I would like to raise specifically with the Minister to-day, and that briefly is the role which our Coloured citizens are likely to play in this emergency planning. Clause 3 is the most important clause of the entire measure, as the Minister has pointed out. It sets out the object and purpose of the establishment of this Directorate of Emergency Planning and it vests the Minister and the Directorate with what I regard as essential powers to combat in the most effectual manner any civilian disruption which may take place in a state of emergency. The Minister has indicated this afternoon, and previously, that his Department has already had exploratory discussions with major city councils and town councils throughout the country, with our Provincial Administrations and with many public and semi-public bodies in regard to this very important measure. I earnestly commend to the Minister that discussions should take place with some of our Coloured leaders.

That is being done.

I am very glad of that. I have no doubt at all that our Coloured people can play a very important part in these civilian protection services. I am reminded of the fact that during the last war we in the city of Cape Town enrolled a large number of Coloured men who were not on active service for the Civilian Protective Service of the city. At that time I happened to be the chairman of the Finance Committee dealing with the civilian protective services of the Peninsula, and I was thus in a very privileged position to come into close contact with this large number of Coloured leaders who played an important role in that organization. Under White officers we formed a Coloured branch of the C.P.S. organization. These Coloured men helped us to parade the streets in predominantly Coloured areas. They helped us to guard our essential services in the city, and throughout the war they played an important part generally in helping to carry out the multifarious important duties assigned to them for the protection of our civilian population. Since those days we have developed, as the House knows, large areas almost exclusively occupied by members of the Coloured community. It is essential to my mind that the Coloured people should be fully incorporated in this emergency planning. I am quite certain that they can play a very important role in helping to maintain essential services and to protect essential industries and health services throughout the country. particularly in areas adjacent to their own homes. In fire-fighting, in rescue and evacuation work, and indeed in every phase of activity falling under these emergency planning schemes, the Coloured people can play an important role, particularly in their own areas. It is perhaps appropriate for me to quote here a tribute paid to the Coloured police reservists in the Epping and Athlone areas a few weeks ago by a namesake of the hon. the Minister, the Divisional Commissioner of Police, Brig. J. F. B. Vorster, who said that the police were making great progress in combating crime and that the Coloured reservists were a great help and a great asset to the police. He went on to point out that these Coloured police reservists were a group of people who were prepared to sacrifice their spare time to counteract lawlessness in their areas and were at all times prepared to endanger their lives in protection of the law-abiding citizens in their areas; and despite the fact that some reservists were intimidated and others were assaulted, they persevered in their determination to combat crime. Indeed, this tribute paid by Brig. Vorster, supported by a similar tribute paid by the District Commandant at Athlone, led to a very excellent leader in the Burger which appeared a few weeks ago, where again tribute was paid to the development of a solid civic sense among the Coloured community as a whole, and the authorities were urged to try to encourage that civic sense as much as possible.

I would therefore urge the Minister to say in the course of his reply to the debate a word of encouragement to the Coloured people. I would urge him to ensure that his Directorate of Emergency Planning will make the fullest use of the services of our Coloured citizens, many of whom have already indicated their willingness to participate on a voluntary basis. There have been many who have indicated their wholehearted support of the scheme. I am sure that an expression of goodwill from the Minister to our Coloured citizens will encourage the vast majority of them to throw themselves wholeheartedly behind this important service to our country. It will indicate to them that they have not been disregarded in this important civic activity. It will be the means, I feel, of resuscitating the sense of civic responsibility which I am sure most of them are only too anxious to assume. To my mind, it would be fatal to the success of this entire emergency planning if the fullest use were not made of the Coloured people and if they were in any way disregarded in this scheme.

For these reasons I would urge the hon. the Minister to ensure that the fullest possible use should be made of our Coloured citizens in the scheme, which I am sure will have the full backing of everyone in this House.

Mr. Speaker, we have already heard that we on this side of the House accept the Bill in principle, and I am one of those new boys the Minister referred to who should have read his speech of last year. I have done so and I am grateful for the information that he has given to the House in that speech. South Africa is very fortunate in that it has never been necessary during all these decades since Union to have made use of this type of emergency planning, but the unfortunate thing is with South Africans that they will sit back, take un the newspaper in the evening and draw a chair up to the fire and forget the outside world. They look to the South African Police for their personal safety and for protecting their property. Every citizen decides to take his place in a community of his own choice and he must remember that in taking his place in that community he owes some civic duty towards that community. Probably the only occasion in South Africa where emergency planning could have been of use was during the 1922 Industrial Strike. I accept that those miners had very good reason to go out on strike, but unfortunately the strike stretched out from month to month and eventually, for financial reasons, I take it, they had to leave the area to provide for their homes and their families. But here is a case of a blatantly unorganized civil community. When the bubble burst and the shooting took place, irresponsible citizens of the towns took up arms and, needless to say, the small detachments of police were their main targets. They shot innocent children and respectable citizens lost their lives. I myself remember two small children of about five years old being shot. Whether they were shot deliberately or by crossfire is unknown, but they nevertheless lost their lives. During the same period fire-bugs were busy committing arson, smashing windows, looting and generally committing vandalism. Only after the towns were relieved by the mounted riflemen and the burgher forces were the police again in a position to restore law and order. On subsequent investigation, those people who did the shooting said that they had never touched a rifle; as a matter of fact, they had never even seen a rifle.

But on the other hand where organized emergency planning was in operation in the City of London during the last war, during the peak of the attack on London, blocks of tenements would be bombed and reduced to burning rubble. Within minutes fire fighters would be there to put out the fire; Red Cross and medical teams would roll up to attend to the injured, with ambulances to take them away to emergency hospitals. Teams of labourers with the necessary tools would systematically comb the debris for trapped persons and to remove the bodies of those killed. Skilled artisans would attend to the restoration of water, sewage, gas and electricity supplies. I remember that Guy’s Hospital was bombed; half of it was burnt down but the patients, together with the staff, were nevertheless evacuated to pre-arranged points in the country. This also applied to schools in various parts of the city. The local authorities were organized as separate units. There was no necessity for overlapping. I would suggest to the hon. the Minister that local authorities be given similar powers, as against provincial powers. If one local authority is blown into ineffectiveness, the neighbouring authority would be able to give complete assistance as a separate unit. At this stage. Sir, I must ask: What about the non-Europeans? Will they also be trained to serve their own groups? Surely they cannot be left as lookers-on to create pandemonium. The evacuation of schools, hospitals and homes for the aged must be prearranged. Storage points for essential foods, water and clothing all have to be established away from the urban areas. As one hon. member said here last week, when you turn on a tap you expect drinking water, not radioactive poison. Everybody realizes that to provide air-raid shelters would be a colossal task. Could some alternative arrangement not be made? We are living in a mechanical age and parking garages are continually being erected, especially in built-up areas. Could not the hon. the Minister investigate the possibility of having plans drawn up for these future buildings which would be strong enough to serve as air-raid shelters? I sincerely hone that no suggestion will be beyond sympathetic investigation. We know that there will be a State Department to deal with all these disasters, but during the flux period, until this State Department can effectively come into operation, these local authorities will have to attend to their own affairs in their own areas. It must be remembered that the execution of these emergency regulations calls for the marshalling of resources in which the individual, the community, private enterprise and all levels of government must play a part. Each must make a contribution. The preparation must be developed as part of everyone’s normal functions and activities. The scheme as planned must and will succeed because the main factor is the survival of the individual.

I want to congratulate the hon. member who has just resumed his seat, one who is just as much a new member as I am, very sincerely on his maiden speech.

Mr. Speaker, as you are aware, I am also a mere newcomer to this House. Seldom before in my life have I found myself in as critical a situation as I do at this moment. Realizing fully that I am addressing a most learned audience I am really hesitant about attempting anything, but there are nevertheless a few small matters affecting my constituency which I first want to touch upon before proceeding to the discussion of a matter which will be more in the national interest.

In the first instance I must pay tribute this afternoon to my predecessor. I am thinking here of Professor A. J. Malan, the former Deputy-Speaker of the House of Assembly and Chairman of Committees. Professor Malan was a very diligent person who served his constituency sincerely, humbly and honestly, and judging by the status he achieved, the position he held here, I take it that he was respected here as well. In my new career I shall endeavour to follow in the footsteps of my predecessor, not as far as his status is concerned, but as far as his humbleness and his sincerity and his other actions are concerned.

I also have a message from my constituency for the hon. the Prime Minister of the Republic of South Africa. My voters asked me to remember to convey this message at the first opportunity I had. It is a message of homage and of thanks, and also a congratulatory one on his dedicated zeal and interest in the South West Africa affair. We realize fully that if he had not taken active steps and made so many sacrifices, the judgment would most probably have been a different one. We are grateful for his faith in the case and we are also grateful for his faith in the Almighty.

Mr. Speaker, we also want to express our thanks to the Government for not granting permission for the building of a compound, which was to have housed 400 Bantu, in the constituency. That decision was in accordance with the policy of the Government and the will of the people, and we are grateful for it. We are grateful for the progress which has been made, in recent years in particular, with the removal and resettlement of Bantu in Lady Selborne and we should like to make an appeal to the authorities concerned to dispose of this matter as rapidly as possible. Then we have another problem in the constituency. It is also of local interest but if the authorities concerned and the Government could do something about the matter we would appreciate it. I am referring to the Indians living and trading in our White residential area. We shall be very grateful if attention is given to this matter and if those Indians can be resettled.

I am now passing on to a matter affecting the entire population, not only a section of the population, not only a party, and not only a group of the population either, but the entire population of the Republic of South Africa. I am now venturing upon somewhat dangerous ground. After having heard the lawyers on this matter it is somewhat difficult for me as layman to mention this matter. The Civilian Protective Services Section was established with effect from the 1st December, 1962, and its designation has since been changed to Emergency Planning. If it will not be considered very presumptuous of me, I should like to ask whether the designation could not be reconsidered and whether we could not content ourselves with the old designation, i.e. Civilian Protective Services? That is the international designation. Up to the present, statutory authority for the Section’s activities has been derived from the Defence Act, Section 82, which authorizes the State President to establish Civilian Protective Services, but it has now become necessary to place an Act on the Statute Books to grant parliamentary authority for the Section’s activities. It fits in with the modern view to-day and with the modern conditions in the modern world that we should have an Act which covers all these aspects of the field in which emergency planning operates. Adequate and specialized parliamentary authority must be obtained to organize and to strengthen emergency planning. Emergency planning, in the form in which it is acceptable to the Republic, comprises two important concepts, i.e. the survival of the population, and plans to ensure the continuation of the government of the country.

Certain powers without which the preparations cannot be proceeded with effectively, have to be grafted. This is also in accordance with what other countries of the world are doing to-day. We are thinking here of countries such as Russia, the United States of America, Britain, Norway and Sweden, and many other countries. The progress which has thus far been made with emergency planning has been purely administrative, but that progress has been very great because there has been identification, there has been co-ordination, there has been systematization and organization of these various State Departments and local authorities, and for that we are also very grateful to the hon. Minister of Justice.

I now want to mention briefly the principles of the Bill under discussion. Military and police functions have, of course, been excluded. The Bill covers the measures and facilities which are essential for the survival and the readjustment of civilians. These include the protection of essential industries and measures to ensure the continuation of the government of the country during a state of emergency. The continuation of the government of the country is of great importance, because the administration and organization of all associated matters have to be removed to places remote from the normal places in times of disruption or when disaster strikes a country. The powers conferred upon the Minister in this respect are to ensure that the essential functions of the government of the country can be continued in the various places with as little disturbance as possible. The measures to be considered under this Bill include the provision of key personnel, continuation of government, communication between authorities themselves and between authorities and the public, and also the provision of essential records. In my opinion the Bill covers all the things necessary to carry out its objectives within the defined fields, i.e. provision is made for the administrative machine and for manpower for the performance of services, namely firemen, rescue workers, first-aid men, male nurses, nurses, medical personnel etc.

Something in this Bill which might evoke a little criticism is the powers of enforcement being granted to the Minister, but from the nature of the case it is essential that powers be conferred upon the Minister to enable him to enforce the surrender of certain essential commodities. It would be ideal if this preparation could take place on a voluntary basis, but many countries of the world have already learned the costly lesson that provision has to be made for powers of enforcement, since the matter has never really progressed very far on a voluntary basis. There must be certainty as to people being available for training and service. It must be possible to demand the essential goods required in a state of emergency. It must be possible to obtain the information necessary to keep the entire planning machine functioning smoothly. If any person were to refuse to supply any information, it would be as well if the Minister could force that information to be given. The same principle is found in the Public Health Act, namely in the case of local authorities which fail to carry out measures for the health of the district. Similarly there must also be punitive measures to discourage persons who obstruct this Act or who do not carry out their duties properly, from obstructing the Act, or the planning or the organization.

In addition provision has been made for the protection of essential industries, places and areas (Clauses 7 and 3 (i) (cc)). That forms an inseparable part of planning. In the same way as it is essential that civilians be protected, so it is essential that factories and the people working in them be protected, so that in a state of emergency the economy and the industries can be continued with. Fire-fighting, rescue work and medical services are of course indispensable and must be provided within the industry itself, provision for which has in fact been made in the Bill. Until now statutory provision for the protection of places and areas which may be regarded, as key points, i.e. those which are of strategic and cardinal importance for the continuation of the economy, has been contained in Section 18 of the General Law Amendment Act of 1963. However, the application of this section has given rise to many problems. The provisions as embodied in the Bill under discussion have been drawn up so as to bridge these problems and adapt the relevant measures to the broader requirements of emergency planning. Steps taken in terms of the new provisions will be undertaken and carried out by Emergency Planning with the closest collaboration of the South African Police. Security both within and without the relevant places is of course a police matter.

Mr. Speaker, the reason why I have chosen to talk about this extremely difficult Bill and this extremely difficult aspect of it, is because I was one of the volunteers as district liaison officer and because I have had personal experience of how emergency planning functions in practice, how it is organized and all that it envisages—that is why I find that this Bill is a measure which covers all these necessary things.

I want to associate myself with the hon. the Minister and with the hon. the Leader of the Opposition, who expressed the opinion that this idea that civilians should take more and more interest in the matter of emergency planning must be brought home to them, because I see in this a major educational task, an educational task in the sense that people must realize their responsibility towards themselves, towards their fellow-countrymen, towards their country and their people. That is why I feel myself at liberty to take an interest in this Bill, and that is also the reason for my plea and this “speech”, which I put between quotation marks.

I would like on behalf of the House to congratulate the hon. member for Hercules on his maiden speech. He commenced by saying that he was hesitant to make his first speech in this House, but I must say that the remarkable ingenuity with which he managed to coyer a number of subjects, augurs well for his future in this House. I wish too to congratulate him on the suggestion which he made about changing the title of the Bill. I agree with him that such a Bill would better be entitled “Civil Protection Bill”, that is to say, after certain amendments, which I feel are essential, have been brought about.

The hon. member for Peninsula, who last spoke from these benches, mentioned that he thought that every well-disposed person would be in favour of this Bill. I consider myself to be a well-disposed person and I am in favour of this idea of planning in advance for the protection of civilians in emergencies such as war or national disaster. This, Sir, is of course sense, but I do not agree with the hon. member who said that the Bill which is before the House, the Emergency Planning Bill, resembled the acts passed by other countries in anticipation of emergencies or national disasters. Indeed, I see in this Bill two important principles enshrined, particularly in Clauses 3 and 9, which go well beyond any of the legislation which I have examined pertaining to emergency legislation in countries such as America, the United Kingdom, Canada and the Netherlands. In none of those countries do I find provisions such as those enshrined in the two main clauses which the hon. the Minister says contain the very core of this Bill, i.e. Clauses 3 and 9. I shall come back to these clauses in some detail a little bit later. I want to point out that the mere administration of emergency planning, of setting up a civil protection service, can in fact be done without any legislation being passed by this House and indeed has been done. The hon. the Minister has set up his emergency administration; he set it up several years ago. I think he set up his emergency planning organization as far back as October, 1962, and the first brochure was issued in February, 1965. His planning organization sent this brochure to every householder as far back as February of last year and therefore it is not necessary in fact, as far as the administration is concerned and in order to get the machinery in motion for such planning to contend with any emergency or contingency such as a national disaster, for a Bill of this nature to come to this House. All that Parliament has to do is to vote the necessary money in the Budget and that presumably has been done in previous years in order to enable the Minister to set up his organization. I am prepared to concede that over and beyond certain administrative measures it might be necessary for legislation to be introduced into this House, but such legislation should be very carefully framed indeed so that it involves the least possible interference with the ordinary life, the ordinary economy, the ordinary rights of persons and property in the Republic. I do not believe that the Bill which is before us to-day in any way conforms with these requirements. On the contrary, I believe that this Bill confers on the Minister unqualified powers of interference with the daily life and the property rights of citizens and indeed with the national economy as a whole; that it does not clearly define, as I believe it should, the powers of the Minister in respect of any emergency, and it does not provide any safeguards in respect of the duration of any period during which emergency powers may be taken by the hon. the Minister. Because of that, because I believe that the principles enshrined in this Bill go counter to what I believe to be the requirements as shown in other countries with the passing of any form of civil protection bill, I wish to move—

In Canada too the emergency planning scheme contains certain specific safeguards involving the submission of proclamations of emergency to Parliament. If Parliament is not sitting, it must be summoned. In the Netherlands, Parliament must immediately be sommoned so that decisions taken by the Minister concerned can be embodied in legislation. If the States-General do not pass the legislation, the state of preparedness falls away within four days. The United Kingdom has its Civil Defence Act, but it also had the Emergency Powers Defence Act, which were passed immediately before the outbreak of World War II. Those Acts gave special powers, but they have fallen away and now everything is once more subject to Parliamentary approval. If the measures are not approved by Parliament, they fall away within 28 days.

The Bill the Minister is presenting to the House to-day is very different indeed from emergency powers adopted by the United States, Netherlands, Canada or Great Britain for times of national emergency or to meet the requirements of planning for a national emergency. Not only does this Bill fail to safeguard any rights after an emergency has arisen, but it also fails to safeguard these rights even before the Minister has declared any state of emergency as defined in this Bill. A state of emergency, as defined in this Bill, goes much further than the emergency as defined in the Public Safety Act and it certainly goes further than the emergency defined in terms of the Defence Act, because it can include any disaster. Disaster can include an influx of refugees. This is a new provision in the Bill. I do not think the hon. the Minister explained why he found it necessary, between the time he presented the last Bill to the House and this Bill, to include in the definition of “disaster”, the influx of refugees. I presume he wishes to take over property and so on. It seems to me to be going very far indeed that the declaration of some such disaster can mean a state of emergency, which then means that the Minister is vested with very wide powers indeed.

The Minister, I know, will tell us that he has no intention of abusing any powers under this Act, but I am afraid that such protestation has been made very often across the floor of this House. Ministerial protestations, as far as I am concerned, are no substitute for legal guarantees. So far I have been talking in terms of general principles.

I now want to turn to specific clauses to which I have objection and which I believe embody the very pith of this Bill. Clause 9, the conscription clause, provides for a power which can be exercised—and the House should consider this well—in advance of any declaration of a state of emergency as defined in this Bill. That is how I interpret it. No restriction is placed on the hon. the Minister first to declare a state of emergency in terms of this Bill—I am not talking of a state of emergency in terms of the Public Safety Act—before he can actually implement conscription for civil defence of all people, all civilians aged 17 to 65. They can be conscripted for, and be required to render service in connection with, any matter referred to in Clause 3 (1), which defined all the various functions which have to be performed by the Civil Defence Organization. The persons liable for such service are those who are not on the various reserves. The majority of the people who are so conscripted are likely to be married people, many of them with responsible jobs. We are not simply dealing with teenagers, Sir. The Minister is not simply taking 19-year olds just out of school the way the army does. Anybody between the age of 17 and 65, male or female, married or unmarried, employed or unemployed, can be conscripted by the hon. the Minister prior to his declaring a state of emergency under this Bill. I believe that taking people away from their work and their families is a very serious matter. The Bill certainly envisages that they may be taken away from their work, because if one reads this clause …

Will there be any work if there is a state of emergency?

The point is, what is an emergency? The emergency can take the form of an influx of refugees. It can be any disaster which the Minister thinks is a state of emergency. But in any case, of course there will be work even if there is an emergency. How does the hon. the Minister think the country is going to run if everybody is conscripted to go for some form of emergency training? That was a really absurd interjection from the hon. member. The Bill envisages that people will be taken away from their work. Clause 11 clearly shows this because the employer is obliged to give leave, and he may not refuse to employ the person thereafter. What is more, the Bill in no way limits the period for which a person may be taken away for training. The Minister may conscript a person for six months, a year or as long as he likes, and he does not even have to declare a state of emergency. He does not even have to say that the country is in a state of emergency in terms of this Bill. If the hon. the Minister requires people to be trained for civil defence such as air-raid precautions, evacuation, resettlement of communities, emergency ambulance services, firefighting, etc.—the sort of matters actually specified in Clause 3—then surely what is required is not these blanket powers of civilian conscription, but the training of expert and administrative personnel. For this purpose, I feel that, given decent offers of remuneration and conditions of service, and given the availability of suitable manpower, such personnel could be adequately and voluntarily recruited.

Incidentally, other hon. members mentioned the question of non-Whites. I too would like to know what particular precautions the Minister is envisaging for instance in an area like Soweto, which is a vast township south of Johannesburg where well over 600,000 Africans are living. It is isolated from the rest of the city. I would like to know if the hon. the Minister has any particular plans in that regard. I would like to know if he has attempted any voluntary recruitment of people there or if any training schemes for the people there have been set in motion. I should like to make it clear that I am not in any way against the idea of training people for this sort of service. As I have said, the hon. the Minister has shown us that he is quite capable of setting up a department and co-operating adequately with the local authorities. He tells us that they are all functioning very well and that he is cooperating with all the services, such as the Red Cross, St. John’s, the Noodhulpliga and all the other services similar to those which are provided by these people. There is therefore no reason why he should not go ahead with this aspect of the matter and if necessary obtain a larger grant of money from this House in order to set all this in motion. What I object to is the taking of these blanket powers of conscription which he may apply to any citizen between the ages of 17 and 65, without even having to declare any form of national emergency. I suggest that the hon. the Minister look at the British Home Guard Act of 1951 which gives the Home Office adequate powers of recruiting on a voluntary basis personnel which can carry out duties as far as the Home Guard is concerned. Some people may, however, not be required to live away from home. They may not be placed in full-time service and they do not have to leave their employment. It is a voluntary, part-time service and I cannot see why we cannot have the same thing here. Also in the Home Guard Act there are safeguards for the individual against the disruption of his work and family life, which are totally absent from the bill before this House.

There are powers other than conscription which I object to. Most of the matters mentioned in Clause 3 are things to be done during an actual emergency, as I read that clause, but nevertheless the hon. the Minister is empowered to take very far-reaching steps in advance of the state of emergency. For instance, he has very general powers in the first part of this clause. According to my interpretation, his powers include the power to take steps in preparation before any emergency arises. I deduced this from paragraphs (aa) and (cc) of sub-section (1) of this clause. Powers granted under these two paragraphs may be exercised without the declaration of any emergency. In paragraph (bb) there is a proviso which states very clearly that the power to direct any person who is the owner of or who has custody of or control over any land, building, etc., to surrender the use thereof, may not be exercised by the Minister unless the said direction is issued during a declared state of emergency. This proviso does not appear in paragraph (aa), which directs that any person may have to furnish the Minister with such information as he demands, or paragraph (cc) in terms of which the Minister may direct the management of any industry which in his opinion is an essential industry, to do anything that he wants them to do. I do not believe that the hon. the Minister should have the powers as defined in this clause out of emergency times.

I should also like to comment on the Minister’s powers when he has declared an emergency. If the Minister alone is to have the right to proclaim an emergency for the purposes of this Act, his proclamation should fall away after 24 hours unless confirmed by the State President. And Parliament should also have the right to consider his action, to approve it or disapprove it. I do not think any Minister has the right to declare a state of emergency for instance in terms of the Public Safety Act. That is done by the State President. I believe that any extension of emergency powers beyond the powers which the hon. the Minister already has under the Public Safety Act, should be by way of legislation and not proclamation. The regulations referred to in Clause 18, as the hon. the Leader of the Opposition mentioned, are extremely wide. The Minister has no duty to report these regulations to Parliament. I do not know of any precedent in other countries for legislation of this nature for civil protection. The hon. the Minister has said to us that he has studied narrowly the laws which are in force in other countries. He did not give us any specific instances. I too have looked at laws which are in force in other countries, in the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada and the Netherlands. I have examined their emergency planning legislation for matters of civil defence and civil emergencies and I do not see in any of those laws the wide powers which the hon. the Minister is taking in this Bill. Therefore I suggest that the House should not pass the Second Reading of this Bill, but that it should instead refer this Bill to a Select Committee before it passes the Second Reading. Such a Bill should be calculated to advance the idea of civil protection, but at the same time it should see to it that powers to interfere with the economy of the country, of conscription, to take over essential industries, etc. are not handed to the Minister without some limitation of his power and without some review by Parliament of these powers. I move

Mr. Speaker, what a sad place the world would be if one regarded everything one saw in legislation as dangerous and bad. The hon. member for Houghton sees everything taking place in this House as interference with rights. She sees in this Bill extending powers for the hon. Minister and she is upset about everything in a negative way. I believe that this motion to refer this Bill to a select committee is unnecessary. Last year this legislation went through a second reading in this House. This year it was again explained by the hon. the Minister and was accepted by the Opposition. Now the hon. member for Houghton moves that it be referred to a select committee. Mr. Speaker, we have grown tired of her gramophone record which has got stuck in the same groove and I even find that the needle has worn down in that groove. I wonder why the hon. member for Houghton is so afraid of the hon. Minister of Justice. Does she have a personal fear of him? Or do her friends who helped draw up her speech perhaps harbour apprehensive thoughts of the hon. the Minister? One gets the impression that the entire fear complex is not as innocent as it appears.

What we are dealing with here is another one of those insurance policies which the Government is taking out for the safety of South Africa. That is why this Bill is something which deserves the support of all hon. members of the House. During the Second World War approximately 34,000,000 people lost their lives. Statistics prove that most of them, more than half, were civilians and private individuals who lost their lives in the war as a result of a series of factors of which direct loss of life through bombs or weapons of one kind or another was not the principal cause. There is a series of attendant factors which come into operation in a situation such as this for which this legislation is making provision. There is the tremendous disruption which follows on an event such as the Second World War. As a result of such disruptions millions of civilians, particularly in Europe, died of causes which had their indirect origin in the war. South Africa can also become involved in a global war. South Africa, by virtue of her strategic position and by virtue of all the factors involved, can become involved in a struggle together with the countries of the West. A variety of occurrences can then take place. I shall glance for a moment at only one of the things which can happen. Suppose South Africa, by virtue of her strategic position is attacked by Polaris submarines. A submarine can take up a position at the edge of the pack ice 3,000 miles away and fire Polaris projectiles at Cape Town, or they can approach closer to our coast and attack any city in South Africa with atom bombs. A Polaris projectile has a striking range of more than 3,000 miles. If this were to happen, our radar could give us a warning of approximately 15 to 20 minutes. It would inform us that an attack directed against South Africa is on the way. The hon. Leader of the Opposition has said that we should consider the substantial expansion of bomb shelters and cellars. For the kind of attack which can take place in the present world situation a bomb shelter is virtually quite ineffective. During the Second World War there was a long warning before aeroplanes could carry through their attack. But with the modern weapons with which civilians in particular can be attacked and cities destroyed, the warning period is extremely limited. Besides, not more than approximately 5 per cent of the population of a city such as Cape Town, would be able to reach a bomb shelter before the attack was carried through. If an atom bomb were to fall on Cape Town it would mean that everything within a radius of five miles would be completely destroyed and reduced to ashes. It would mean that people finding themselves in Bellville or Parow and other places far from the city would receive severe burns from which a large percentage-of them would probably die. It would mean places such as Paarl, Stellenbosch and Somerset West would be exposed to radio-active fall-out which could cause people grievous bodily harm. That is the extent of the grave danger facing us. Against that we only have the warning given by our radar. That is why it is so essential that an emergency plan should go into operation at the shortest possible notice. That is why it is essential that, at the shortest possible notice, a machine should go into operation to undertake the protection of civilians and so that plans will not first have to be made and co-ordination planned. A predetermined programme of action must react automatically whenever there is a warning or a state of emergency of this nature. That is why it will also be necessary for the services of surrounding areas to be adjusted to such a plan of work so that they can also proceed in a coordinated way with the work which has to be done.

There is something else which could occur in South Africa and which could give rise to a state of emergency. We could be faced with a sabotage campaign organized on a countrywide basis to plunge the country into chaos. We know that there were such plans. We know what proportions the sabotage campaign would have assumed if it had not failed due to the very measures taken by the hon. the Minister. Can you imagine the chaos which could be caused in South Africa if a country-wide sabotage campaign suddenly occurred? Such a sabotage campaign could be directed against us, either coupled with a border war or on its own. It would be directed against all the arteries of our entire existence. In the first instance it would be aimed at our means of communication such as the telephone exchanges, our road communications, etc. These communications are in the first line of fire should anything of this nature occur. That is why it is also necessary that preliminary action be taken in a way which will restrict the disruption to a minimum. I am thinking now of radio amateurs in particular who are used to a large extent in other countries to establish emergency lines of communication if normal communications are cut off. We have a tremendously large and sparsely populated country and that is the reason why it is not possible to defend every point in our country. That is why machinery is necessary which can come into operation automatically if our communications are cut off.

There is another important matter which ought to receive attention in this connection and that is the provision of power and light. Something of this nature usually takes place at night. When the power communications of the larger centres are cut off when it is dark, there is the greatest chaos imaginable. That is why I believe it is very important that the Minister should give attention in his emergency planning to the possible provision of emergency lighting if sources of power were damaged or power lines cut off. I think it is essential that a number of persons should have previous knowledge so that they can illuminate certain strategic points. They can, for example, be coordinated in an organization in which they will be able to take action in some way or another—the easiest and most suitable would probably be motor car lights—in such a state of emergency. It is important that these measures should take place automatically. When lines of communication are cut and chaos results, it is too late to issue orders. It cannot be emphasized sufficiently that whatever planning there is for a given state of emergency there should be automatic steps which have already been co-ordinated with other steps. A given occurrence should set a whole series of operations going without orders having to be issued and without there having to be any further instructions, and without there having to be any further consultation between various persons. The instructions must be such that they can be carried out automatically and mechanically the moment any action is necessary.

Mr. Speaker, we do not expect these things to happen in South Africa. The hon. member for Houghton’s fear is unfounded if her fear is for things which in the first instance do not stand in the Act and which, in the second, will not be practicable. I have already said that it is important that this precaution be taken. It is also our prayer that it will never be necessary to use it. But things can happen and have happened in other countries which may require such precautions. At Anchorage in Alaska half a city was swallowed up in an earthquake. Although we are fortunate enough not to be situated in those regions of the earth thus afflicted, all kinds of disasters of that nature can take place here and cause great chaos. That is why we are thankful to the hon. Minister for introducing this legislation so that the nation and history can never point an accusing finger at this House and himself at least for not having done anything to safeguard us against these disasters which can occur. That will not happen because the necessary measures will have been taken in time.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to approach this matter from a specific point of view. I want to approach it from the point of view of how the provisions of this Bill and any subsequent organization set up for emergency purposes are likely to affect our womenfolk and our children in South Africa. Whether we are dealing with a state of total war, a state of emergency or internal disorders, in terms of the definitions contained in the Bill, I think one salient point must never be lost sight of—that everything possible must be done to protect South Africa’s children from these hazards. I am quite sure that the hon. the Minister will agree with me about this. I think we should never forget that, whatever may happen to us as adults, we have a prime duty to preserve future generations in South Africa, both for their own sake and for the sake of the country. In his second-reading speech the hon. the Minister emphasized the importance of the part that is likely to be played by the civilian population in any future conflict, whether it is internal or external. I cannot but endorse his statement. He is entirely correct. Let no one underestimate this danger. The new division of planning will in reality do two things. It will establish a form of national service as well as civil defence. As I see it, these are the two main things. Of course, the women of South Africa will be most anxious to play as great a part as possible in any such services.

Mr. Speaker, when, during the last war, my husband served with the Royal Army Medical Corps in Britain and throughout Europe, it was my privilege to spend the best part of seven years as an ordinary civilian in the United Kingdom as a participant on the Home Front, as it was called, subject to all the restrictions and hazards of that particular time. Reading this Bill, it seems to me that, despite what was said by the hon. member for Houghton, much of the planning that was done in Britain during the last war has been taken as an example for what we intend putting into practice here in South Africa. We of the Home Front in Britain during the last war enjoyed no luxuries of any kind, the principle being that the armed forces should receive priority when it came to the allocation, on a national basis, of food, fuel, clothing and such things.

I suggest to the hon. Minister that the whole question of civil defence should be thought out in depth and be organized in such a way so as to prepare ourselves for any eventuality. I think the Minister and I agree on this. As I said just now, my experiences during World War IT were that the armed forces took priority, a principle which will continue to be applied in any future war. Next in priority, however, I think is the protection and care of the nation’s children. This involves a host of matters to which I should like to call the attention of the hon. the Minister.

Firstly, there is the question of the evacuation of children. In many cases this will have to be undertaken without their parents and will be from centres falling within a danger zone—whether because of military occupation, bombing raids or on account of industry or plant being the likely object of attack. A particular area may be zoned as dangerous also on account of lines of communication within that area which might also constitute the object of attack, necessitating the civilian population being moved elsewhere. I would like to impress upon the Minister that whenever children have to be evacuated in large numbers and sent away from their homes, provision will have to be made, not only for their accommodation and feeding, but also for their education. If our civilian population is to be mobilized in terms of Clause 9 of this Bill, there will be many instances where women working in factories or engaged in some other vital task will have to carry on with their work while their families (certainly those with older children) are removed to areas of safety. Such children will, of course, be removed under the supervision of teachers, welfare workers and people of that kind. Sight must not be lost of the fact that when a country is engaged in war the period during which these children may be forced to be away from their homes may run into months or even years. With this in view I should like to urge that the question of schooling should also be provided for.

Here I would like to refer the hon. the Minister to Annexure 1, page 28 of the latest report of the Department of Justice tabled in this House earlier this year. This annexure sets out in detail what is called a “diagram of survival organization”. In fact, this annexure sets out in diagrammatic form what is contained in Clause 3 (1) of the Bill. I would like to ask the hon. the Minister to consider adding a further sub-division to the right-hand column of this diagram headed: “education services”, listed under the following heads: school and hostel accommodation, school feeding. education supervisors and equipment centres. While dealing with this report I would also like to ask the hon. the Minister a question. On page 27 the statement is made that the introduction of first aid and home nursing, fire fighting and rescue work as school subjects has been investigated and accented in principle by the Minister. What I should like to know is what Minister is referred to here? Is it the Minister of Justice or is it the Minister of Education?

The Minister in his speech referred also to the question of public apathy. I am glad he mentioned it because I have here two Press cuttings which refer specifically to this matter. One is dated June last year and refers to Cape Town, in respect of which it is said that few volunteers have offered themselves in this city for emergency work. At the same time it points out that whilst 13,000 people were being trained in Johannesburg by the division of emergency planning only 2,000 people in Cape Town were learning to do anything about it. The other statement I have here is of a more recent date (October, 1965) and was made by Brigadier Acker, who said that—

He described that attitude as being very unsound. Of course, I agree with the hon. the Minister that this degree of apathy is to be regretted and particularly so in respect of the Cape Peninsula—because, in the event of an invasion, our coastal towns must first be neutralized. Our ports would become the first object of attack. So I would like to know from the hon. the Minister whether he has any plans as to how to counteract this apathy. When there is a state of war, there is always the maximum call-up of all able-bodied men. People in the subsidiary services, such as Police reserves, fire fighting, rescue work, first-aid, air-raid wardens, and civilian assistants to anti-aircraft units, etc., are usually controlled by the Government. There are, of course, professional instructors but the services themselves are usually run by civilians themselves. My experience in the United Kingdom was that a lot of this work was organized and carried out by a national organization called the Home Guard. The hon. member for Houghton also referred to this Act. I wonder whether it would not be a helpful suggestion to the Minister to consider the establishment of some similar organization here in South Africa for the reason that such an organization could bring the urgency and responsibility of these matters directly into every home, thus making people feel that they are personally involved. If you talk to the public to-day of emergency planning they do not know what you are talking about, but when you talk to them about protecting their homes they would probably think twice about it. So from a propaganda point of view I think such a suggestion is worthwhile considering. The home guard in the United Kingdom consisted of people beyond the age of military call-up. They were men who were not fit enough to serve in the armed forces but were more than able to carry out important duties in protecting the civilian population. They worked day and night and did a marvellous job. But they were organized into a specific unit, with their own uniform, status and discipline. In this way they became a very proud force indeed.

Let me refer specifically to fire fighting services. I know something about the effects of ordinary bombing raids on civilian populations. Of nuclear raids I have, of course, no experience. I was a little astonished to find, in the handbook of the hon. the Minister, a picture of a young man and a young woman trying to put out a fire with a bucket. This bucket apparently contained either water or sand. Of course, it is useful to have this type of thing in your house, but has the Minister’s department given any thought to the question of issuing what was issued in the United Kingdom during the war to every householder, namely a stirrup pump? These were quite easy to handle and could be attached to any water main or worked from any dam, river, swimming bath or water tank in the vicinity. In this way you could help to put out a fire far more effectively than merely using a bucket of water for the purpose whilst waiting for proper fire fighting units to arrive. I can say that these pumps proved absolutely invaluable to the householders.

Then there is the question of food. Here I suggest to the hon. the Minister that he should give priority attention to the question of the stockpiling of essential foodstuffs, especially for consumption by children. It is essential that children, during their years of growth, should be assured of a balanced diet no matter under what circumstances they may find themselves. This involves, of course, the question of our imports, which have to be protected against enemy action either on sea or on land. We may, of course, find ourselves sufficiently fortunate as never to have to ration food in South Africa, but we cannot take any chances. So we have to prepare ourselves for it. It is stated in the Bill that essential services will be dealt with by the Department of Social Welfare, but food is a question which I think goes much further than that. I would like the hon. the Minister to give us some indication of what his plans are in this respect. About certain basic foodstuffs we need not have to worry because we have them available here in South Africa, while there are others the non-availability of which might cause concern. We have, for instance, been importing large quantities of butter and cheese lately, so that the situation in respect of these products might become difficult. Similarly the position about meat, and milk, the product about which I am most concerned. Last year the hon. the Minister of Agricultural Technical Services told a conference in Natal that at present 134 pints of milk were available to every member of the population annually, compared with the from 200-300 pints of milk for every adult and double that for every child recommended by nutritional experts. Obviously, we do not have enough milk in South Africa unless we proceed to stockpile milk in powdered form. Last year we imported more than 700,000 tons of butter, a situation which has been made even worse by the recent drought conditions. Clearly, therefore, the question of the availability of dried as well as of fresh milk is one which will have to be considered very seriously.

In the United Kingdom during World War II rations for children as well as for adults were very small but despite that and whatever the position of the adults, children were allowed a minimum of one pint of milk a day throughout the war, irrespective of their circumstances. In addition, large quantities of cod liver oil, orange juice and ascorbic acid tablets were imported from America under a lease-lend agreement. Thus it was ensured that the children at least received a fairly well balanced diet throughout the war. We in this country need not, of course, concern ourselves with the tablets referred to because here we have our own citrus and guava crops. We have, however, to make provision for items such as dried milk, meat and possibly also for dried egg powder.

As far as our non-White are concerned, those in the urban and those in the rural areas, I suggest that we are going to be faced with a formidable problem when it comes to feeding them. South Africa’s biggest health problem, apart from the problem posed by those non-Whites who, as a result of deficiency diseases die in their infancy under normal circumstances, is the nutritional deficiency rate amongst pre-school and primary school children particularly amongst non-Whites. This is certain to become a very great problem—especially in time of war. I think that when we are planning for an emergency the first thing which should be done is to define the nutritional requirements of every age group. This is a matter of national importance, particularly so during times of war or blockade. Therefore we should start thinking about this problem as soon as possible.

In spite of our wonderful sunshine here in South Africa, we should also start thinking about the requirements of vitamin D and of the high incidence of rickets amongst children in their first year of life, particularly children in urban areas where the incidence of this disease is very high. We should make plans, as was done overseas during the war years, to import and stockpile cod liver oil and other similar items in order to be able to deal with this and related matters.

If small children are evacuated in large numbers from urban areas, then we should once again think in terms of organized school feeding. It is something which should be investigated. We could organize some plan for the handing out of dried milk, cod-liver-oil, dried fruit, fruit juices, etc. at food control centres as has been done elsewhere in time of emergency. While we are on the subject of food supplies, I wish to make a small point which may be a useful one. I want to suggest that the Department’s experts give some attention to stockpiling soya bean products. They have an extraordinary high protein content, Mr. Speaker, and can be used in all sorts of ways both for adults and for children. Moreover, they are very easy to stockpile. I do not wish to labour the question of food any longer, except to say that if the United Kingdom had not taken the pains it did to ensure a balanced vitamin diet for its children during the last war, they would have suffered very severely in the years that followed. Because of these precautions my own children and thousands of others, I am thankful to say, suffered no deficiencies at all. Would it not be better if the Government established a Ministry of Food and Fuel rather than a Ministry of Sport at this stage?

The question of air-raid shelters has been dealt with by certain hon. members, and I only wish to make one point in that regard. During his second-reading speech the hon. the Minister said it was simply impossible to provide the entire nation with shelters. The point was made that it is possible to have shelters of a kind. But, Sir, we may be subjected to ordinary bombing raids—not necessarily nuclear raids. Would it not be possible to arrange for the commandeering of station subways, cellars, underground garages, etc.? I suggest that they all be included in a list of shelters.

All these places have been identified.

I am delighted to hear that, and there is therefore no more to be said on the subject, except to express the hope that these underground premises will be fitted out with sandbags, water tanks, sleeping bunks, first-aid kit, basic rations, and all those things which go with an underground shelter. I take it the hon. the Minister’s Department is attending to this aspect of the matter.

Of course, Sir, we shall have to consider stockpiling a certain proportion of the wool produced in this country, for very obvious and practical purposes. When it comes to cotton—and I hope hon. members will not laugh—I hope the hon. the Minister will consider stockpiling a certain amount of cotton. Because, Sir, babies have to wear certain indispensable garments, and if these are unobtainable in time of war it would be quite impossible for mothers to carry on!

My final point concerns the call-up of married women. The call-up of single women presents far less difficulty than the utilization of married women. But married women can render a very valuable contribution of a part-time nature to our war effort, should such a situation ever arise. There could be labour centres, manned mainly by women—if I may put it that way—where individual circumstances and cases might be discussed. It might amuse the hon. the Minister to hear that I served in the land army in Britain for a time, loading swedes, carting manure, cleaning out the cow sheds—and even learning how to milk a cow! All able-bodied agricultural workers in the United Kingdom were called up. But later on most of us who had children to look after were able to put in two or three hours a week at a local factory machining barrage balloons for the anti-aircraft units. This type of work was very well organized indeed on a shift basis. The sum total of this contribution on the part of all married women who were able to do it must have been very considerable indeed.

In conclusion I wish to stress that it is absolutely essential to organize our civil defence plans on such a basis that the maximum amount of protection and care are given to our children. I would be grateful if the hon. the Minister would give us an assurance that this Division of Emergency Planning will make this a matter of top priority when the expansion of his Department receives attention.

Mr. Speaker, this was not the hon. member’s maiden speech but none the less I cannot refrain from congratulating her on her contribution here this afternoon, particularly if one takes the hon. member for Houghton’s contribution into consideration. Usually one finds that members of the same sex support one another against the opposite sex, but here, just as in the past, we once more had a division in the ranks of the one sex, and we very nearly saw fireworks in this debate! Mr. Speaker, as far as the hon. member for Houghton is concerned, it would seem to me that as soon as the name of the hon. Minister of Justice is mentioned in this House, her hair stands on end and she is automatically opposed to him.

No, they just turn grey.

Now I wonder whether the hon. member has in fact read this Bill. If she read the short description on the title page she would have seen that this measure makes provision for the establishment of a Directorate of Emergency Planning and the creation of civilian protective services. I am quite unable to see why she objects to this measure and why she wants it to be referred to a select committee.

The titles of measures are misleading, as we have experienced only too often in the past.

The hon. member also complained that this Bill did not make provision for normal life, such as commercial activities, being continued. But, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member apparently does not understand what is contained in this measure. This Bill envisages that very state of affairs which would arise when everyday life were disrupted. That is when emergency planning will come to the fore. That is why this measure has been introduced. I am quite unable to see why the hon. member has requested that this Bill be referred to a select committee and why she is opposed to this measure.

She referred to Clause 9 which empowers the hon. Minister to call up persons between the ages of 17 and 65, and asked who would do the work if the hon. Minister called up all persons in these age groups.

I did not say that.

This proves once more that the hon. member does not at all understand why this measure has been introduced here. I think she must go and do her homework again, and then she will understand this Bill. I shall not discuss what the hon. member for Houghton said any further.

Because you did not read this measure.

Perhaps I did not read it, but you do not understand it at all. But I assure the hon. member that I did read it. In any case, we shall leave it at that. In his introductory speech the hon. Minister said that there was not much interest amongst the public in this kind of planning. The thought therefore occurred to me that certain things might be done to arouse the public’s interest to a greater extent. This proposed Department is being created to prepare the public for what has to be done when a state of emergency arises. I can imagine how the daily routine will be disrupted in a time of emergency. I am thinking for example of failures in the supply of power and water, fires which would have to be extinguished, etc. Now we must ask ourselves how we can stimulate public interest in this matter to a greater extent. I cannot help thinking of our radio services, and the thought occurred to me whether it would not be possible to broadcast a weekly or even a daily talk on this subject. It must be produced in such a way that the public will find it interesting and will have their interest aroused. Perhaps our newspapers could also publish regular articles in this connection. Even the children—and many adults too of course—could be reached through the comics section of the week-end newspapers. Of course, the Department has distributed pamphlets in this connection amongst the public. They have been sent to all and sundry, but I doubt whether even 1 per cent of the public has read the pamphlets. The moment people receive anything of this nature their first reaction is to lay it aside with the intention of reading it the next day. I think these pamphlets could be made more attractive. I am also thinking of posters which can, inter alia, be pasted up in post offices. Recently I had to give testimony in a case and had to wait the whole day at the court to be called. One sits in the lobby feeling rather bored, waiting to be called to give testimony. If some of these posters were on display in the lobby, one could not help reading it. Of course people waiting at our courts until they are called is an everyday phenomenon—and sometimes they have to wait a very long time. Posters which are so conspicuously displayed will make the public aware that something has to be done about this matter.

If the posters were illustrated, even M.P.s would be able to read them.

They would have to be well illustrated before the hon. member would be able to understand the poster! This is a serious matter and yet the hon. member is trying to play the fool. I am also thinking about what could be done in our schools. Is it not perhaps advisable for our children to receive emergency planning instruction for, say, approximately a half hour a week? When a state of emergency ev’’sts—particularly in wartime—burns are the injuries occurring most. Very few of us—myself included—know how to treat a burn. It might happen that the adult person in the house who received training of this nature is unconscious or injured. That is why as many people as possible should receive such training so that they can render aid when necessary. By means of the weekly instruction our school children can make themselves proficient in this direction as well. Emergency planning should also be explained to people in charge of institutions, such as hospitals, because there will be many people—as the hon. Minister rightly remarked—who will not be able to help themselves. I am thinking now of the great hail storm which struck Pretoria in 1947. All the tiled roofs at the Weskoppies Institution were destroyed and the mental patients there ran around in confusion without anyone knowing exactly what to do. Something like that then becomes a state of emergency and people working at such institutions must receive the necessary instruction and training in order to take the necessary steps in times of emergency.

According to these pamphlets it is recommended that each house must have at least one fire extinguisher at a central point. Householders should therefore acquire fire extinguishers. Now I wonder how many people responded to this appeal? Is it not possible for the Department to arouse people’s interest and enthusiasm in this respect as well? Perhaps a subsidy could be paid to those installing a fire extinguisher in their homes. Of course we find fire extinguishers at strategic points in large buildings. Perhaps the presence of fire extinguishers in every home could be made compulsory by municipal regulations. When fires break out in a time of emergency, such a fire extinguisher could then be used. I wonder whether municipalities should not be compelled to adopt legislation accordingly, so that dwelling places, in the same way as large buildings, also have fire extinguishers and buckets of sand. Of course I hope that such a state of emergency will never arise, but one must still be prepared for it.

Another question which has occurred to me is what should be done with people who destroy their own property. This measure makes provision for such an event, but a colossal amount will be envolved when a major fire occurs. One can imagine the great damage which could be caused in a place such as Cape Town if a bomb were to be dropped here. Businessmen could be totally ruined by the damage. Since I do not want to place an obligation on the Government, I want to propose that the possibility be investigated of municipalities levying a small tax which may then be utilized to create a fund which may be used in this connection. A strong fund may be built up over a period of time, and when circumstances warrant it that fund can be utilized to provide a measure of compensation to people who have suffered damages. A very small levy might be able to solve the problem.

Mr. Speaker, I associate myself with this legislation. I am glad that the hon. Minister has introduced it. I think we will all help to make a success of this measure. Our prayer is that it will never be necessary for the Minister to use the powers granted him by this Bill, in other words, that such a state of emergency will never occur in our country.

Mr. Speaker, first of all I might mention how very pleased I am to be able to represent an urban constituency, namely East London (North), in South Africa’s House of Assembly. Then too I am pleased to be able to succeed my predecessor, Mr. A. N. Field, who always fulfilled his duties conscientiously and in a dignified way. I might also mention, Sir, that it has taken me many moons to get here, but it will take another person many, many more moons to get me out of here! Now, coming to this Bill, Mr. Speaker, it is well known that the ideological war, or the cold war as it is known, is being waged with increasing intensity throughout the world. International relations are continually being strained to breaking point. Up to now all peace efforts have proved of little avail. The danger of nuclear warfare on a global scale involving all countries and peoples remains a serious threat. In principle the Government has accepted financial responsibility for all those services which will be utilized in time of emergency. Hence we see that the Division of Emergency Planning was established on the 1st December, 1962. As has been mentioned, South Africa is seldom afflicted by earthquakes, tornadoes or floods. We often have droughts, but droughts do not come within the ambit of this Bill, and in any case droughts do not hit us overnight, as other disasters might do. We know, that to combat predetermined consequences of war, or other disasters is not an easy task. All measures in this Bill affect all people in all walks of life. It is a national Bill, in other words, it covers the whole State.

Everybody must of course be ready to take care of himself against the possible effects of nuclear war. It is accepted that it is everybody’s duty here to encourage planning for emergencies, to encourage all our people to be aware of any possible eventualities that may arise. The real danger of nuclear missiles and bombs is of course the burns resulting from the blasts, etc. The radio-active fall-out or radio activity, is the real danger worrying most of us. This radio activity is a substance which cannot be seen or felt, nor can it be smelt. It is also impossible to judge where the fall-out will settle. Naturally, conditions prevailing at the time, such as climatic conditions, alter the winds at different levels above the earth and therefore also alters the course of this radio fall-out or radio activity. It could be that the poisonous activity is driven for many hundreds of miles from the point of impact or, for that matter, from the point of the explosion. Fortunately. Mr. Speaker, this radio activity diminishes rapidly over a very short period. One finds that after eight hours of an explosion, about 90 per cent of the radio activity diminishes while after two days 99 per cent of it is lost. After a matter of two weeks 99.9 per cent of this radio fall-out disappears. But. Mr. Sneaker, the remaining 0.1 per cent is the real danger which we must be prepared to face. Although this percentage in itself is not very dangerous, it is in fact very dangerous if it is ingested or inhaled. I have been through the Bill and I have read the hon. the Minister’s speech made in this House during March last year, but, Mr. Speaker, I see no mention of the position in so far as it may affect our water supplies. The possible contamination of our water supplies has already been mentioned by my Leader. I know for instance that many small villages all over our country have unconsciously provided for the eventuality of water contamination, in this that they have provided covered receptacles or reservoirs, where fresh water for drinking purposes may be stored. But this provision has not been made in our larger centres. I should, therefore, like to suggest to the hon. the Minister that somehow or other we must find, and devise ways and means of providing for ourselves in our larger centres, with covered emergency reservoirs which could be filled in the event of anticipated emergencies. We should have these covered reservoirs in order to avoid the dangers of contamination. Nuclear warfare has much in common with conventional warfare in this respect, that wounds and injuries sustained, in no way differ from that of conventional warfare. We thus find that we will have under nuclear warfare no real new problems to face. The problems are the same as those which history has taught us. The use of nuclear weapons, Mr. Speaker, could naturally have a chain reaction throughout the world. The bomb that was dropped on Hiroshima in 1945 had the equivalent of 20,000 tons of dynamite. Since then we have had Russia’s latest bomb, a hydrogen bomb, which was three thousand times stronger or with more explosive power than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima. In regard to a suggestion made by an hon. member of this House which was to the effect that a select committee be appointed to investigate this matter, I can only say that I am of the opinion that the sands of time are running out. The other countries of the world are wasting no time with the appointment of committees or commissions in this particular regard. We must build on that which has already been done in regard to our security in this country, and waste no time about it. The position is that a new hydrogen bomb can be made to-day which, compared to the bomb dropped on Hiroshima, is stronger than 20,000,000 tons of dynamite and that this can even be increased to 200,000,000 tons, if necessary. It cost the United States of America, and France each not less than £35,000,000 sterling to develop and produce their first bombs. Now, we have in South Africa the Defence Act, the Public Safety Act, and now this Emergency Planning Bill; it is our duty. Mr. Speaker, to encourage all people in South Africa to plan for an emergency, in particular an emergency in so far as nuclear warfare is concerned. Our best insurance in South Africa against this type of warfare, is to be fully prepared.

Mr. Speaker, it is my privilege to congratulate the hon. member, who has just spoken, on his maiden speech. Listening to him it would appear that he has apparently made it his task to make a thorough study of the questions and difficulties which might crop up during air attacks and the waging of a nuclear war. I must say that I think he has made a particularly sound and a good contribution in this regard. We hope he shall remain here a long time—precisely how long is another question of course—because it is not every day that a person on the opposite side of this House entertains us with such a thoroughly prepared speech. I sincerely hope, Mr. Speaker, that in this particular respect he has set a very good example to his older colleagues. I congratulate him once more. Now I want to congratulate the hon. Minister on the fact that he too, just as in the case of other countries of a high level of industrial development and development in other spheres, is taking precautions with this piece of legislation for the worst which might befall. I do not want this to be interpreted as meaning that we are very soon expecting the worst. But, Mr. Speaker, it is the duty of every country, just as it is the duty of every citizen of that country, to prepare itself for every possible contingency. Listening to all these speeches it has become clear to me that the hon. Minister has the whole-hearted support of this Parliament as well as the country on this specific matter. Those voices we have listened to give a clear indication of this. The fact that not much has been written or said about this subject must not be interpreted by the hon. Minister as meaning that the public is indifferent to this matter. On the contrary, I think the public has just been waiting for the guidance which is now being provided by this Bill. I want to mention one aspect which has not yet been mentioned here in the House. After the end of the Second World War one often read that, besides all the dangers involved in a nuclear war, one of the most immediate dangers cropping up after a bomb attack, apart from the loss of life and damage to buildings, would be the splintering of glass. We all know that nowadays our elegant department stores consist, for the major part, of glass. It is maintained that after the explosion of a large bomb in a city such as London, one of the immediate dangers is the presence of glass particles in foodstuffs. We all know that foodstuffs are scarce in wartime and that children in particular make a dash for such places after a bomb attack, not only out of curiosity, but also to get at some of the foodstuffs. These foodstuffs may be full of shattered glass particles which of course constitute a grave danger. In this way a tremendous amount of damage can be caused as an aftermath of such a bomb attack. Sometimes one finds a little humour in the situation in spite of such terrible circumstances. So, for example, I read about one young boy who stood waiting with others in a bomb shelter. All that came, however, were the aeroplanes which were to drop their bombs. This happened after the alarm had been sounded. Much later on in the night, when he had become tired of standing, he wished that the aeroplanes would come and drop their bombs so that he could go to sleep. I think it is necessary that the public should receive instruction in regard to all these aspects, that the bodies concerned—local authorities—and the volunteers for whom provision is made, must play their part, that these bodies and persons—apart from factors for which provision had already been made—should prepare themselves for the worst, and that the public should be set to thinking and acting. Apart from the first-aid training we find in the industries—particularly in the mines—there is an appallingly large portion of our public who are still very ignorant as far as the rendering of first-aid in the case of accidents is concerned. I think it is the duty of every man and woman to receive at least preliminary training in first-aid. I do not want to boast of the fact here that for the past 30 or 40 years I have held a first-aid certificate, but I do want to recommend that each one of you—particularly those forming part of our population who will of necessity have to remain and operate in the home—become proficient in first-aid, which will not only consist of the rendering of assistance to the wounded but will also consist of first-aid in the prevention of the terrible aftereffects of air bombardments in major cities such as Cape Town and Johannesburg, etc. I want to make an appeal to the members of the House and to the public to give a little more heed to the matter of first-aid because you may be sure, Mr. Speaker, that if this country were one day to be involved in a war—something we hope will not happen—first-aid services in populous areas such as these will be very, very essential.

Mr. Speaker, a little earlier a member on the other side of this House referred to the ordeal which he was going through as one which he has faced many times on the rugby field. At the moment I feel like an opening batsman standing at the end of 22 yards and looking at Neil Adcock another 50 yards beyond winding up for his first delivery. However, I hope that I will be able to meet this first delivery in the middle of the bat. I am proud to stand here as the representative of the people of the Pietermaritzburg District constituency. Indeed, I am honoured to have inherited the mantle worn for so long by Captain Bertram Henwood, who had a distinguished career of approximately 20 years in this House and who always carried out his duties in a most exemplary manner. Captain Henwood, alas, has now come to the end of an illustrious career owing to failing health. Dealing with the matter in hand, it is obvious that this Bill has been introduced with the praiseworthy intention of creating the means whereby the population of South Africa will be protected and cared for during a state of emergency as defined, and further, for the rehabilitation of that population thereafter. Although we on this side of the House accept the principles embodied in this Bill, many questions arise from the perusal of the provisions contained therein. These, Mr. Speaker, I respectfully submit to the hon. the Minister for his consideration. Firstly, in what way will this Bill affect the duties of Justices of the Peace? Is it envisaged that they will automatically be drawn into any measures which may be taken in terms of Clause 3 (1)? Will they be required to serve on the committees which will be established in terms of Clause 8? I venture to suggest to the hon. the Minister that as a Justice of the Peace is a man of substance, usually a man with an intimate knowledge of his area, that he would prove invaluable as a member of such a committee. Consideration should be given, I submit, to the appointment ex officio of all Justices of the Peace onto the local planning committees. Dealing further with the prospect, I should like to ask the hon. the Minister if it is the intention to appoint committees only “to report to him, the director or any officer of the division, or to advise him, the director or the said officer on any matter which he may refer to any such committee” as provided in Clause 8 (1). Will these committees have no function other than this purely advisory one? I respectfully suggest to the hon. the Minister that they should also have executive functions as it is a known practical fact that committees of a purely advisory nature tend in the long run to lose interest and to fade away if they do not see the practical application of their recommendations! As I have said before, this Bill is designed to protect the population of South Africa. It is an undisputed fact that the bulk or the majority of the population is non-White. Clause 9 (1) provides that “Every person within the Republic shall, as from the date on which he becomes 17 years of age until the date on which his 65th year expires, be liable to undergo training, as prescribed, in connection with any matter referred to in Section 3 (1).” The words I want to draw special attention to are “every person within the Republic”. Is it the intention of the hon. the Minister that persons of all racial groups represented in South Africa shall undergo such training? I was pleased to hear the hon. Minister telling the non. member for Peninsula that he is consulting with the Coloured peoples or with the leaders of the Coloured peoples. Is the hon. Minister also consulting with the leaders of the Indian and Bantu communities in the Republic? Is it his intention to appoint non-Whites to serve on committees as provided for in Clause 8? I refer particularly to those areas such as Chatsworth, Langa, Nyanga, Kwa Mashu, Umlazi, Edendale and Soweto where the greater concentration of people is persons of the non-White groups. I submit that without an effective planning organization and the utilization of local people with a knowledge of local affairs, the effects of any disaster which may lead to the declaration of a state of emergency in these areas, will be magnified and the task of control and rehabilitation made more difficult. While considering this Bill, my thoughts lead to the two distressing rail smashes which occurred in the last year and to the incidents that followed. I thought how these two events could so easily have developed into an ugly situation; how it could have developed into internal riots which could have resulted in the declaration of just such a state of emergency as is envisaged in this Bill. I thought further that perhaps this Bill should embody provisions for the training of people to prevent such a happening. Particularly people should be trained to develop self-control and a sense of responsibility. It only requires that they should be given stability, security, encouragement, training, and the opportunity, for the Bantu people in particular, to show that they do have these qualities. I request that this particular aspect should receive the urgent attention of the hon. Minister in consultation with the hon. Minister of Bantu Administration and Development. Whilst thinking about the applications of these measures to the Bantu people, the question arises whether the provisions of this Bill will apply in the Transkei. As it is not specifically excluded, I must accept that it will apply to that territory. In view of the special nature of the Transkei, I submit that special provisions therefore are necessary. In this connection I submit the following questions, once again for consideration by the hon. Minister: Will control, in te’ms of this Bill, be exercised by the hon. the Minister within the Transkei or will he delegate his authority to the Transkeian Government? Will the Transkei Government be required to carry part or the whole of the expense incurred? Will the Transkei Government have any say in the appointment of a regional director? Will that regional director be a Bantu? Will the committees appointed in terms of Section 8 comprise only Bantu people or Whites or both? If control is delegated to the Transkeian Government, what provisions will be made for the residents in the White townships? A further recommendation that I should like to place before the hon. the Minister, is that advance training in certain aspects be considered and be commenced as soon as possible. I refer particularly to decentralization of medical services by the establishment of more undertakings such as the Government sponsored Botha’s Hill Health Centre in Natal. We have heard hon. members saying this afternoon that it appeared that control is being centralized. I would commend to the Minister that he consider the question of decentralization as being the best way of planning. The principle I was referring to in connection with the Botha’s Hill Health Centre is to take medicine to the people, rather than the present system of taking the people miles away from their homes to overcrowded hospitals in the urban areas. In times of emergency these health centres could serve the additional purpose of being turned into field hospitals. If these health centres are coupled, as the one at Botha’s Hill is. with an organization such as The Valiey Trust, the benefits are enormous. The Valley Trust. I must mention, is unconnected with any Government or provincial organization. It is a welfare organization which is best described as a socio-medico project. Its aim is to sponsor many different projects aimed at encouraging the Bantu to help themselves and to make better use of the soil and other natural resources with a view to better food production and feeding habits. Dr. H. H. Stott, the founder and chairman of The Valley Trust, strongly emphasizes the urgency of this approach if any real progress is to be made towards the prevention of disease. But I submit that an additional benefit which will be of interest to the hon. the Minister is that the rural Bantu people are taught to be independent of outside sources of supply for their food requirements. Guided largely by the study and research into attitudes, habits, conceptions and customs of the people. The Valley Trust has establ’shed a variety of projects. These include demonstration gardens where people are taught to use the soil to the best advantage, to develop their land to its true potential without the use of artificial fertilizer. Furthermore, this project gives attention to small demonstration fish dams which have been erected, and assistance is given to the Bantu people to establish their own fish dams as an invaluable source of protein, which is essential in their diet. They are further taught and encouraged to grow vegetables and a home produce market has been established as an incentive, where they buy each other’s produce. A fruit tree nursery has been established and a maize grinding mill, which encourages the consumption of whole ground maize and not the refined product which is generally purchased in the stores today: and of course a cooking demonstration unit is provided to encourage improved dietary habits, especially among cases of malnutrition and tuberculosis. These cases are referred to it by the adjacent Botha’s Hill Health Centre and the T.B. Settlement.

The Bantu in the Valley of a Thousand Hills have responded and are co-operating very well. This is evidenced by the recent developments in the Valley of scores of fenced-in, productive vegetable gardens, many with fruit trees, numerous produce stalls and a large number of fish dams. The formula for this experiment has been a simple and commendable one: and that is to teach the Bantu people to help themselves rather than passively to accept charity. Productivity has been the main theme throughout. As the hon. member for Wynberg has pointed out to the Minister, this question of feeding the Bantu people could well be a very difficult one. Surely it will be of great comfort to the Minister if he were to know that in many rural areas the population would not be dependent on food and medical supplies coming in from the outside areas. I commend this idea to him for consideration once again in consultation with the Minister of Bantu Administration and Development.

I regard it as a privilege to congratulate the member for Pietermaritzburg (District), who has just sat down, on his maiden speech. He has made an excellent contribution and we hone to hear a great deal more from him in this House in the coming years.

We have been hearing about atomic warfare and the radio-active fall-out for which we have to make provision. Personally I do not greatly fear the possibility of an atomic war against us, but it may happen. We are not in a position to make shelters against atomic bombs available to the public here in this country. We are grateful for the fact that our towns are so widely scattered, and that may be our best protection in the event of an atomic raid. But we can in fact provide shelters against the ordinary air-raids, and possibly also against projectile attacks from submarines, etc. As we have already had speeches this afternoon in which hon. members pointed out that fire-fighting and the provision of emergency accommodation, food and clothing and the continuation of the country’s government have received attention, I want to concentrate on only a few other aspects at this stage.

The first one is rescue-work and the second the treatment and care of sick and injured persons, and then also the maintenance of health services. I feel it is absolutely essential to make provision for the maintenance of health services. That means that water supplies should always be in order and that the sewerage system should always be kept in order, because if an emergency arises and those facilities break down, one may very soon have major epidemics in such a stricken area. The position in the target areas is that there are usually hospitals and that liaison is established with the local authorities to obtain the co-operation of health officers with those in charge of emergency planning, but I feel it is not sufficient that only the local authority health officers and staff should be drawn into the emergency planning services, but that it is essential that all the medical personnel and all trained nurses who are no longer doing active nursing and also members of the Nood-hulpliga and of the Red Cross, should join these services actively even at this stage, and should see to it that units are created not only in the target areas, but also in the larger surrounding areas, so that they will be able to report for duty and fulfil these functions in the event of a catastrophe.

I think there is rather too much indifference among our people regarding emergency planning. Particularly now, after the World Court’s judgment on South West Africa has been delivered, we here in South Africa may feel that the pressure has eased off and people may be more inclined to sit back and to hope that nothing will ever happen. But we should not forget that there are still states which are not satisfied with our form of government and our planning for the future. For that reason there are still threats which cannot be ignored so lightly. I should like to appeal to the Medical Society of South Africa to urge members of its various branches to join these emergency planning services and to see to it that everything is ready in the event of such a disaster striking us. It is easily said that there is a hospital, but we know that the hospitals are already crowded with people who are ill, and if a further 50 or 100 persons requiring care were added, the hospitals would neither be able to accommodate all those people, nor would the staffs of the hospitals be able to care for that additional number of people. It is, therefore, essential that planning should start even now so that field hospitals or even temporary hospitals can be set up in the grounds of existing hospitals, so that they will be prepared to supply the necessary services in the event of a sudden influx of injured people. But medical services are not required only after people have been saved from the ruins. I feel it is equally essential that medical men should be available when debris is cleared, at the removal of persons from the debris, because it is very often absolutely essential to apply first-aid on the spot to save the lives of such people. It often happens that people will lose their lives before they reach a hospital, if they do not receive proper first-aid. For that reason I feel it is essential that medical men and nurses should even now report to and join the emergency planning services, and ensure that our rescue teams are prepared in the event of such a disaster striking us.

Mr. Speaker, it is with a great sense of the occasion that one stands up in this House to make a maiden speech, because I think that all of us. the new boys in this House, have a contribution to make which I think will be different from that of our predecessors. I think very largely we are younger people and I think this is going to be a very interesting Parliament in which fully a third of the total membership are new members. I think we are all looking forward to the time when the sparks will begin to fly, and when we have this terrible moment behind us. But. Sir, I must confess to feeling somewhat of a jaded maiden, because this is the third maiden speech I have had to make, and I can tell you that to make a maiden speech in the Other Place is a far more unnerving experience because there the hon. members appear to be listening.

This Bill deals with emergency planning. I believe the subject which has been mentioned by several speakers already, of atomic fall-out, is perhaps going a bit far beyond the immediate intentions of the Bill, but I believe it is a direction in which the Minister must channel his thoughts, that when he has all his machinery set up to deal with small, local disturbances, this matter of planning for atomic fall-out should also be at the back of his mind, because the main thing we have to look at and plan for is survival. You know. Sir, Mao tse Tung of the Chinese Communist Party is reported to have said that he does not care if 300,000,000 Chinese are destroyed in an atomic war because there will still be 300,000,000 left. I believe that we have a duty to see that as many as possible of our people will survive should this terrible catastrophe come upon us. To me this is a personal matter, because where I live, in the valley of the Umgeni River, you can see the mist and the rain coming from the coast at Durban, and should there ever be an atomic attack on Durban in the right weather conditions, I believe that the whole of the Umgeni Valley will be contaminated. Sir, I must tell you that half the White population of Natal live in the Umgeni Valley and my hon. friend the member for Vryheid will agree with me when I say that it is the best half of the White population of Natal.

Have you ever been to the Free State?

I have been to the Free State, but I must not be contentious now. Not only does half of the White population live there, but half of the Bantu population as well, because you have vast development taking place at Kwa Mashu and at the Umlazi Mission, and the many areas around Pietermaritzburg. I believe it is important that we should give thought to this matter and particularly to the contamination of the countryside, because we will have to contend with the continuation of food supplies and I believe that in this matter our farming population is going to play a vital part. I feel that the Minister would be well advised to consult with Organized Agriculture and to inspan the services of the local farmers’ associations, because these are the natural leaders of the countryside. These are the people who can be relied upon by the Minister and his Department of Planning to maintain control and to take any emergency steps that may be necessary should such an occasion ever occur. All sorts of things have to be done. Planning must be done on the farms from the point of view of providing shelter for stock and the emergency provision of fodder. The hon. member for East London North has told us that within a week most of the danger of radiation has gone, but you have to live through that week and it is vital that our livestock should be protected for the future supplies of food in the country. This is something which should be given thought to and I should like to suggest to the Minister that he might make use of an informal organization which grew up in Natal in 1961 when the Bantu neonle of Harding made a march upon the town of Harding, where our people informally organized areas of concentration to which the White farmers and their families could go for safety, and tied in each of these areas with a shortwave radio receiver, and in that way ensured the safety of the White people in the countryside. I believe that this is something which can be done, in this instance by selecting certain points and by making use of shortwave radios in order to make sure that, should something like this happen, which I fervently pray will never happen to us, we will then have these ready-made organizations of farmers who I believe can be impressed with the urgency of the situation. We have heard that there is a shortage of volunteers for this work, but I believe that in the farming community you will find those who are responsible enough to take an active part in work of this nature and will lend themselves readily to any steps that may be taken by the Minister. I say this is the final catastrophe which may befall us. We hope it will never happen, but I think the extension of the groundwork laid down in this Bill is aimed at seeing that should it happen we will be prepared.

I find it a particular privilege to congratulate the hon. member for Mooi River on his maiden speech in this House, and to thank him for it. Various terms are used in Afrikaans to denote this type of speech—“ontgroeningstoespraak”, “nooiens toespraak” and “eerstelingtoespraak”—and I have never been able to decide which of the three I have mentioned is preferable. I think one’s choice would depend on one’s basic make-up and also on one’s life and one’s outlook upon life as far as the opposite sex is concerned—the love affairs and the disappointments one may have had. The hon. member comes from Mooi River. If he should perhaps one day represent Waterberg he would be able to tell us about an even more sweet-sounding name, namely Mooimeisiesfontein. His speech was short and pithy. When I say that his speech was worth listening to and that we hope and trust he will continue in that vein and make even more important and fruitful contributions, I am not saying so merely because it is customary. I do not want to speak in those clichés which are used in this connection because one has nothing else to say. I mean it sincerely when I express my appreciation for the fact that the hon. member’s speech was a constructive one and contained a great deal of good advice. In addition he displayed a new approach, and his approach to this extremely important legislation gave us a very clear indication of the convincing manner in which the Minister presented his case and of the fact that he has the support of all sides of this House, except the support of my neighbour here, who always regards it as her duty to oppose every single thing which the Government brings before this House. I take it that the contributions which have been made, especially by the new members of the Opposition, will act as a stimulus to the hon. the Leader of the Opposition and are an indication that when similar important legislation comes before this House in future, he may expect the best from his backbenchers in support of sound legislation such as has always been introduced by the hon. the Minister of Justice in the past and will be introduced by him in the future. The misery and distress that can be suffered by mankind in this life, not only as a result of a direct attack during a war but also as a result of natural disasters, can take many forms. It is also true that such disasters can cause physical suffering to women and children, especially in time of war. unlike in the days when you, Mr. Sneaker, and I would lie behind Martini- Henry rifles and subsequently behind Mausers when we fought in a war. In those years warfare was so completely different that our women and children were reasonably safe at home. That can no longer be said. Our large urban areas where there is a concentration of industries may be the target of an intentional or unintentional attack which will maim and destroy women and children, and yet that will be accepted as legitimate tactics because the country is at war. When one deems it necessary to drop an atom bomb somewhere in order to destroy enemy forces, the lives of women and children will be sacrificed. Then there is, inter alia, the possible damaging and destruction of food supplies, the poisoning, damaging or total destruction of water supplies and sources of power and light. This legislation demands the serious attention of both sides of this House and I trust that after the hon. the Minister has replied to this debate we shall have the House’s wholehearted acceptance of this essential measure for safeguarding our country, our resources, our women and children—those that will be in danger when we are plunged into a war.

With these few words and in accordance with an agreement made between the Whips in this House, I move—

Agreed to.