House of Assembly: Vol13 - TUESDAY 2 MAY 1989
The sign * indicates a translation. The sign †, used subsequently in the same interpellation, indicates the original language.
General Affairs:
asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:
What is the Government’s standpoint in respect of the declaration of free settlement areas in Johannesburg in general and Pageview in particular?
B821E.INT
Mr Speaker, as is the case in most other metropolitan areas in the country the settlement pattern in certain areas in Johannesburg has undergone a marked change during the past few years. The occupation of parts of the Joubert Park and Hillbrow area by people of colour is generally known. It is also true that a considerable number of Indians have already settled themselves in areas such as Mayfair.
This phenomenon can be mainly ascribed to the operation of market forces and the preference that people have for certain residential areas owing to social and financial considerations. In certain high-density residential areas the age of the buildings and consequently the affordability of residential units has been conducive to changing the group character. The favourable situation of these areas in respect of job opportunities in and around the city centre has also played an important part in this connection.
Although own residential areas with an own community character is and will remain Government policy, there are those who, because of the diversity of the population structure, do not place a high premium on this and would like to associate freely in all spheres. To make provision for this the Free Settlement Areas Act was placed on the Statute Book in 1988.
In the identification of possible free settlement areas in Johannesburg consideration will therefore be given to areas in the vicinity of the city centre in which the above-mentioned settlement pattern has already established itself. A need also exists for free settlement areas in the high-quality residential areas. The opening of existing high-income residential areas to satisfy this need may possibly also be considered.
Pageview was declared a White group area on 24 May 1963. This residential area consists of 398 residential erven and three flat sites. The Administration: House of Assembly at present owns 258 of these erven on which 79 new dwellings have been erected, while 78 new homes have already been sold by the Administration. The Administration has therefore erected a total of 157 new dwellings that make provision for accommodation in the lower-income group. On the three flat sites 27 three-bedroomed flats have been erected and let. This is also the property of the Administration: House of Assembly. The City Council of Johannesburg owns the remaining 62 residential erven in this area.
In contrast to this there are only about 32 structures that are occupied by Indians in Pageview and these structures are in general dilapidated and in a particularly poor condition. I am not unsympathetic towards the Indian families in Pageview, but because of the above-mentioned reasons I could not see my way clear to supporting an investigation into Pageview as a free settlement area.
Mayfair is adjacent to Pageview and also part of the Johannesburg West constituency. There I took the initiative by asking for an investigation into the possibility of a free settlement area.
Mayfair consists of approximately 2 000 residential erven. The population composition in the area is according to surveys mainly Indian. I am convinced that the Indian families of Pageview can be accommodated in Mayfair in an appropriate and suitable manner as an alternative to the deplorable structures in which some of them are living at the moment. [Time expired.]
Mr Speaker, the House of Assembly is making history today because as far as I know this is the first time that an NP member, a member of the governing party, takes a Minister under interpellation, if that is the right expression. [Interjections.] However, the importance and the relevance of this subject at this precise juncture justifies these historic events.
Allow me to say at the outset that we in Langlaagte sincerely appreciate the fact that the hon the Deputy Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning, Mr Roelf Meyer, recently accompanied city councillor Mr Gert Bezuidenhout and Mr Willie Lang, a community leader, and myself on an in loco inspection of Homestead Park, Paarlshoop and a portion of Mayfair to find out precisely how matters had developed there.
Naturally this interpellation is concerned with the application, the practical implementation, of the policy in regard to free settlement areas. The success or otherwise of this policy is going to depend largely on its implementation, and here the time factor is of the utmost importance.
Free settlement areas are an essential, positive development and a definite step forward in the reform process. In this way peaceful coexistence or peaceful cohabitation, if you like, in South Africa is being promoted.
However it is also very clear and implicit in this process that if one accepts free settlement areas as a policy, there are also, and must be, non-free settlement areas or rather own residential areas and own community life. This is the other side of the coin, and definitely not the reverse side of the coin.
What is the position in the Langlaagte constituency in Johannesburg in regard to this practical application and implementation of the free settlement policy on the one hand, and own residential areas on the other? We accept the need for free settlement areas in Johannesburg. We accept that Mayfair to the west of Robertson Street should be declared a lawful open area, and we say the sooner, the better. We also accept that new open areas, not only existing areas, should be considered.
However, we insist on our rights to continue to retain residential areas such as Homestead Park, Paarlshoop, Mayfair West, Crosby and other areas for our own community. [Interjections.] We are fighting for our rights. We are fighting to retain our own community life.
I should like to say more about Homestead Park, Paarlshoop and the Abraham Kriel Children’s Home. This interpellation deals with the application, as I have already said. The Homestead Park-Paarlshoop residential area is, as it were, a closed area. It is closed off as a result of the industrial areas, open spaces, railway lines and the vacant, undermined areas surrounding it. The neighbourhood is scarcely large enough to support an own community life of church and school. [Time expired.]
Mr Speaker, it is very clear why the NP, just before the election campaign, is coming forward with an interpellation such as this one. The hon interpellant is now putting forward a standpoint which he would like to sell to his voters, namely that the areas in and surrounding his constituency will after all be reserved for the White population group. He is afraid of the implications of his own party’s policy in regard to free settlement areas; hence the interpellation. [Interjections.]
If we now consider the standpoint of the hon the Deputy Minister in this connection then this is precisely the policy of the NP. We are not open, we are not closed. We do not really know what we are.
Open and closed!
Is it not true that the hon the Deputy Minister said that own residential areas were still Government policy? He admitted at the same time that a change had taken place in the group character in Johannesburg for people who now wished to associate freely. He then furnished a long explanation.
We say that the NP is afraid to go to the voters with this policy of free settlement areas. Let me mention an example in this connection—the hon the Deputy Minister knows what I am talking about. Adjacent to the southern side of Johannesburg is the Suurbekom area. It is now going to be declared a development area. [Interjections.] The area to the east of the Johannesburg-Potchefstroom Road has expressly been set aside as a White group area. I now invite the hon the Deputy Minister to pay a visit to that area. He will see that it is already de facto a mixed residential area. He is turning it into a free settlement area, although he expressly promised the voters that it would remain a White residential area. [Time expired.]
Mr Speaker, let me begin at once with the last point made by that hon member, namely the point in regard to Suurbekom. The hon member knows as well as I do that on 5 December we announced that the area to the west of Soweto was being set aside as a possible Black development area. This area’s boundary, on the southern side, is the Johannesburg-Potchefstroom Road.
Correct!
That is correct, but who went and sold properties to the south of that road to people of colour? [Interjections.]
The CP!
Who did? That is the whole point. Is it the Government that sold those properties? Did we give any indication that the character of that area was going to change? [Interjections.] No, definitely not! Some of the party compatriots of that hon member are now approaching me and telling me that we must now consider a group character change in respect of that area. [Interjections.] This is so typical of the CP as we have come to experience it over the years. Petitions are sent to us and in the end, if we consider what the petitioners themselves are doing, they are the people who are running away from those areas, as we saw happening in Mayfair and elsewhere.
Let us now argue the point of open and closed areas, to which the hon member referred. I sometimes get the impression that they are merely closed. [Interjections.] What is really important, however? I have taken time to deal with this point because the fact of the matter is that in Johannesburg we are dealing with a situation which the colleague of that hon member, the hon member for Overvaal, conceded last year could not be dealt with in any other way than by reflecting the reality of the situation. In other words, the Hillbrow question cannot be unravelled. The hon member for Overvaal said that Hillbrow was a mixed area. [Interjections.]
The question is do we want to perpetuate the illegality, or do we want to ensure that a situation of legality and stability arises in those residential areas? Owing to that reason, namely the situation as it presents itself at present, I personally took the initiative of ordering a free settlement investigation in the case of Mayfair. [Time expired.]
Mr Speaker, this interpellation has led to a number of very interesting points.
Firstly, in regard to the role of the hon the Minister and that of the hon the Deputy Minister, in spite of the assurances given at the time of the debate on the Free Settlement Areas Bill and the procedures prescribed, it would seem that the hon the Deputy Minister has an extraordinary degree of influence over the deliberations in regard to that Act. It would seem that in the case of Pageview the hon the Deputy Minister has the influence to prevent an investigation from even taking place. It is not just a question of making his input and saying that he wants it open or not, but he is exercising such influence that, as a result, an investigation will not take place.
Secondly, another interesting point is that the hon the Deputy Minister takes us back to the time of forced removals. He is in fact suggesting that the 50 odd families should just pack up, smash down their houses and move somewhere else in the hope that Mayfair will be able to accommodate them in due course. It is the same old principle.
Thirdly, judging by the attitude of the hon the Deputy Minister it would seem that until an already established residential area is virtually overrun by people of colour, the Government will not consider declaring it an open area. By implication this means that they must rely on illegality to apply their own policy. It highlights the complete inadequacy of the free settlement area system to alleviate the problems that have been created by the Group Areas Act.
It is nonsense to suggest that it creates an open choice for everybody. One cannot have an free settlement area, a White area, a Coloured area and a Black area in every area where people need to make their choice to live in terms of affordability, where they are employed, transport and so forth.
In the final analysis, the Act and the system will not work. [Time expired.]
Mr Speaker, it is the standpoint and policy of the NP that people have the right to live in their own communities and to live a community life of their own. The State has a duty to take that right into account in its statutes and to protect it. Just as the Free Settlement Areas Act takes into account in statutory form the right of people who do not want an own community life, so the right of the other people must also be taken into account.
I said that Homestead Park was in reality a closed off area. I also said that it was the cultural birthplace and milieu of the Abraham Kriel Afrikaner Children’s Home. One cannot relocate that children’s home to Houghton, Lenasia or Soweto. The children’s home belongs where it is and where it has been all these years.
During the past 12 to 16 months we have had the situation in which approximately 70 families of Indian origin, rich people with a great deal of money, have been moving illegally into that neighbourhood. [Interjections.] The question that may now be asked is whether we should not allow the market mechanism to take its course. [Time expired.]
Mr Speaker, the hon member for Green Point said that I had made use of an advantageous situation. That is not true. The representatives of the Save Pageview Association spoke to me and asked me whether I would be prepared to support an investigation to establish whether Pageview should become a free settlement area or not. I told them that I would examine the facts. I did so, and also held talks with representatives of the White community. I wrote back to them, and my reply was that according to the facts I could not support such an investigation. That is what I said.
The fact of the matter is that I do not have the authority to take that decision. The Ministers’ Council of the House of Assembly has the authority to decide whether there should be an investigation or not. All that I did was to express my opinion, as representative of the constituency concerned.
The hon member is now harping on the fact that we are not prepared to investigate free settlement in Pageview. I want to say the following to him: A representative of his party in Johannesburg, who is also a city councillor of Johannesburg, a certain Mr Strydom, is also an inhabitant of the Johannesburg West constituency and resides in Melville. When I confronted him with the facts and asked him whether he would be prepared to support an investigation into Melville as a free settlement area, his reply was: “No, not until the whole of Johannesburg has been thrown open.” However it is good enough for Pageview, which falls in the lower income group, to be thrown open as long as the other residential area in which he lives is protected. [Interjections.] I think that this type of hypocritical standpoint which the hon members adopt should really be exposed. Considering all the circumstances, I am not prepared to change my standpoint in the case of Pageview. However, I do think it is important—I shall concede this point to the hon member—that we should in fact consider the throwing open, by way of free settlement, of higher income areas in Johannesburg. I think there are grounds for instituting such an investigation. [Interjections.] When we have done that, we can indeed involve a balanced cross-section of the society of Johannesburg in that way, because then we have Mayfair as such an area and, for the sake of argument, an area such as Houghton as well. [Time expired.]
Debate concluded.
asked the Minister of Economic Affairs and Technology:
(a) What were the reasons for the recent increase in the price of petrol and diesel and (b) what are the present components of the total price of fuel?
B823E.INT
Mr Speaker, the recent increase in the price of fuel consists of four basic components. The first was the increase in transport costs which were previously announced to become effective as of 1 April. These were delayed until 15 April and they were financed during the interim period out of the Equalisation Fund. This increase varies between 0,6 cents and 0,7 cents per litre.
The second was the increased fuel levy levied on diesel for road users of 2,5 cents per litre which was to become effective as of April 1, but which was deferred until 15 April.
The third component was the rising international prices of fuel which makes up the largest component of 6 cents to 9 cents per litre. The reason for this was the increase in international prices which since September last year have been something like 40% in United States’ dollar terms. As a result of these increases there had also to be a slight increase of 0,3 cents per litre in the resellers’ margins.
*The components of the total for 93 octane fuel price as at 15 April 1989 in the PWV area are as follows:
(i) |
Landed cost |
40,142 c/ℓ |
(ii) |
Zone differential or transport cost |
9,2 c/ℓ |
(iii) |
Delivery differential |
1,9 c/ℓ |
(iv) |
Customs and Excise |
4,0 c/ℓ |
(v) |
Motor Vehicle Accident Fund (MVA) |
3,6 c/ℓ |
(vi) |
Retail margin |
8,7 c/ℓ |
(vii) |
Wholesale margin |
5,558 c/ℓ |
(viii) |
Equalisation Fund levy |
7,0 c/ℓ |
(ix) |
Fuel tax |
31,9 c/ℓ |
(x) |
Pump price in the PWV area |
112,0 c/ℓ |
Therefore the pump price increase was as follows:
Landed cost |
6,4 c/ℓ |
Retail margin |
0,3 c/ℓ |
Transport costs |
0,7 c/1 |
Rounding off at pump minus |
(0,4) c/1 |
Total increase |
7,0 c/1 |
The increased wholesale price for diesel in the PWV area was the result of:
Landed cost |
8,8 c/1 |
Transport cost |
0,6 c/1 |
Total increase |
9,4 c/1 |
In addition to the above-mentioned increase the fuel levy on the price of diesel was increased by 2,5 c/1 for road-users who do not qualify for a rebate on the diesel price.
Mr Speaker, the NP Government is being accused today of overburdening the consumer with fuel price increases. The Government wants to link these increases mainly to the world price of crude oil and the weak exchange rate of the rand, as if all of South Africa’s fuel is imported from overseas.
For years now the consumer has contributed to the pump price in order to make South Africa less vulnerable to outside influences. In addition to the weak rand and the increases in the crude-oil price which put pressure on the fuel price, we know that the price of petrol is an easy method of taxation.
We know the Government is desperately seeking new ways and means of taxation. Therefore we can understand why the inland price of petrol was increased by 37% last year and the price at the coast by 39%.
The latest increase in the petrol price is going to cause the general inflation rate to sky-rocket. It is therefore clear that the hon the State President’s prediction and intention to bring the inflation rate down to 9% by 1990, are going to come to nothing as a result of these increases.
The National Energy Board has predicted that an additional increase in the petrol price later this year will be inevitable. This comes as no surprise, as it is in line with the trend we have noticed since the NP started to reform in all earnestness. This has been the case since August 1983 when a certain kind of petrol which cost 59,6 c/1 cost 88,0 c/1 in January 1985, 102 c/1 in January 1986 and 105 c/1 in January 1987.
It is striking not only that the frequency of the increases has become alarmingly high during this period, but also that the increases themselves have risen to such an extent each time that the increase between September 1988 and the next price announcement in January 1989 was higher than the price of a single litre of petrol in July 1970—95 c/1 to 105 c/1, whereas the price was 9,2 c/1 in July 1970.
At present we are experiencing the third increase in eight months. I can therefore understand that the Government has become so embarrassed by these periodic increases that it no longer wants to make the announcements itself and leaves it to the National Energy Board to do so on its behalf. The fuel tax on every litre of petrol is 31,9 cents. When one adds the extra 4 cents for customs and excise plus the 7 cents for the Equalisation Fund, the Government’s share out of each litre of fuel amounts to 42,9 cents.
Once again this proves to us that the Government is in a financial bind, if I may be so bold as to make the understatement of the year.
Mr Speaker, the present high price of petrol and diesel, seen together with the recent price increase and the threat of a further price increase later this year, probably just after the general election, represents one of the main costs which the long-suffering consumer has to pay for the NP’s mismanagement of the economy.
In spite of the generally favourable crude oil price on the world market compared with earlier years, South Africans are forced to pay one of the highest fuel prices in the world, mainly for two reasons.
Firstly, there is the Government’s inability to control inflation or its own expenditure has led to the rapid depreciation in the value of the rand which in turn affects the price of all imports, not least fuel. Each time the consumers of South Africa fill up their tanks, they are paying for this economic mismanagement.
Secondly, there is the Government’s policy of treating the fuel price as a tax milch cow. It is clear from the figures that the fuel price at the pump far exceeds the direct commercial costs to be covered. The difference is what the Government takes in hidden tax revenue to finance its misguided political policies. Some 40% of the money on every litre is spent on the Government’s policies. The increase in the price of fuel will have a negative ripple effect right throughout the economy and further accelerate inflation in South Africa.
In the end the increase in fuel affects the price of bread and all other commodities to a greater or lesser degree. This Government’s stated policy of controlling inflation lacks all credibility as a result of its failed attempts to keep its own expenditure within budgeted targets. When this NP Government allows the prices that it administers, such as the fuel price, to rise so dramatically in such a short time, how can it expect others to exercise restraint?
Mr Speaker, I believe the two speakers who have just commented on this have overreacted and are very emotional. I say this because first of all this recent fuel price increase had nothing whatsoever to do with taxation. It had to do with rising costs.
The hon member for Constantia says he expects another increase just after the election. I would suggest that it might even come before that because international prices are rising at the moment and the South African Government does not control international fuel prices. The hon member says that this is NP mismanagement of the economy. This has got nothing whatsoever to do with mismanagement or otherwise of the South African economy.
Its got everything to do with it.
The hon member also says that we have the highest fuel prices in the world. That is totally incorrect. He goes on to say that taxes consist of more that 50% of the price of fuel. That is not correct.
I said 40%.
I have given the exact figures making up the price of R1,12, and of the R1,12, only 35,9 cents represents any form of taxation, the others being transport costs, production margins and reselling margins, and I really believe that that hon member is not really addressing this particular question honestly.
As far as the hon member for Delmas is concerned, he also said that we are using this fuel price increase as an increase in taxes. That is not correct.
Mr Speaker, on a point of order: Is it in order for the the hon Deputy Minister to say that a member of this House is not treating a matter honestly?
Order! That is not a point of order. The hon the Deputy Minister may continue.
I would like to say to those hon members that in recent times, due to a big oil spill off the Alaskan coast and to a big oil fire in California, the world prices of crude oil and other petroleum products have increased considerably, and this is the main reason why we have had to have the recent increase in the price of fuel. [Time expired.]
Mr Speaker, the South African farmers are once again being harassed and troubled by input costs, because in the midst of a series of price increases, a rising inflation rate and increases in indirect taxation and import levies on essential means of production, the announced increase in the fuel price comes as yet another threat, a threat so great that agricultural experts are of the opinion that agriculture’s fuel expenditure will increase by approximately R450 million. There are even rumours that the price will increase once again within the next few months. We know, after all, that an increase in the price of fuel causes a chain reaction in the prices of practically all means of production, as was the case with the recent increases in transport tariffs.
This brings me to the next point. Producers are alarmed that the price of petrol, which is mainly a consumer item, has been increased by 7 cents whereas the price of diesel, which is mainly a production item, has been increased by 9,4 cents in the case of agricultural diesel and by 11,3 cents in the case of road diesel. This begs the question as to whether the increased fuel price will be to the disadvantage of the producers, the economy or the consumers. Whatever the case may be, productivity and economising, which form the most important foundation for a sound economy, are being thwarted by these efforts.
Expenditure on fuel as a part of agricultural requirements has increased from R192,5 million in 1987 to R991,7 million in 1988. Worse still is the fact that the increase from 1978 to 1987 works out to an average of 17,81% per year. By comparison the latest increase has been 21,71% between 1987 and 1988. [Interjections.] At present it seems as if the increase for 1988-89 is going to be even higher percentage-wise. This points to an enormous increase in the price of fuel and this increase is becoming unbearable.
This afternoon I want to appeal to the hon the Minister, or the hon the Deputy Minister, on behalf of all the voters and consumers, and in particular on behalf of the CP farmers and the handful of remaining NP farmers. [Interjections.] I note that the NP MPs have no intention of doing anything about these prices on behalf of their voters. I want to ask the hon the Minister to reconsider the price of fuel and in particular the price of diesel. The hon the Minister knows as well as I do that the farmers cannot pass the increase in fuel prices on. They have to foot the bill out of their farming activities.
Mr Speaker, I would like to say to the hon member for Delmas that as a farmer I have great sympathy for the farmers of South Africa. I speak as a farmer who uses diesel. [Interjections.] I accept that the rate of increase in fuel has been considerable in recent times but the question I want that hon member to answer is how one can stop international prices from rising.
The hon member pleads for the Government to do something as far as diesel prices are concerned. Already the diesel price to farmers is 21,1 cents per litre less than the price paid by other diesel users throughout South Africa. If we decrease the price of diesel to farmers—the hon member may want to have that for his voters in his constituency—what does that mean? It must mean that he is asking the Government to pay a subsidy on diesel for the farming community. [Interjections.] The hon member says nonsense. Then where will the money come from to pay the shortfall? This is the question that one has to ask. [Interjections.] If there is a subsidy, who pays for it? The taxpayers of South Africa! We know what has happened in Europe as a result of the tremendous subsidies which are paid to agriculture by the governments of those countries.
There is another aspect that I want to put to that hon member. How would he suggest the Government controls the abuse of a differential diesel price system which creates tremendous incentives because of the low price of diesel for the farmer and the higher price for other users? I am referring to the abuse which occurs with persons using rebated agricultural diesel to power their vehicles operating on public roads. [Time expired.]
Debate concluded.
†Indicates translated version.
For oral reply:
General Affairs:
Questions standing over from Tuesday, 25 April 1989:
asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs:
- (1) Whether he, his Deputy Minister or any officials of his Department held meetings with the Soviet Ambassador in Mozambique during the latter half of 1988; if so, what was the purpose of these meetings;
- (2) whether it is the intention to allow Soviet officials to enter South Africa; if so, for what reasons?
B732E
- (1) I myself or the Deputy Minister did not hold any meetings with the Soviet Ambassador in Mozambique during the latter half of 1988. It is possible that the South African Trade Representative met with the Soviet Ambassador at social functions.
- (2) Yes. In terms of the agreements reached on the implementation of UN Security Council Resolution 435 and Cuban withdrawal from Angola.
Arising from the hon the Minister’s reply, would he mind telling us what apartheid has to do with the Cuban settlement as raised by the Russian representative recently in Cape Town?
Absolutely nothing! [Interjections.]
asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs:
With reference to his reply to Question No 8 on 11 April 1989, (a) which senior Ciskei Ministers attended the meeting on 12 February 1989, (b) how many persons from East Peelton were present at this meeting, (c) at what time did the meeting (i) commence and (ii) finish and (d) what issues were discussed at it?
B739E
The Government of Ciskei has supplied the following information:
- (a) Three senior Ciskei Ministers visited the area on the said date.
- (b) A survey of the number of persons present was not made.
- (c) The visit took place during the morning.
- (d) Discussions revolved around the attainment of peace and stability in the area.
asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs:
With reference to his reply to paragraph (2) of Question No 8 on 11 April 1989, under what circumstances is the South African Government prepared to take action to protect its citizens living in independent Black states?
B740E
In terms of the applicable rules of International law.
New questions:
Mr Speaker: Order! I put new Question No 1 to the hon the Minister of Finance.
I put Question No 2.
asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:
- (1) Whether recommendations regarding the allocation of township land for Blacks in the PWV area were submitted to him; if so, (a) when and (b) from whom;
- (2) whether he has received a consultants’ report on these recommendations; if so, who were the consultants;
- (3) whether he has accepted all of these recommendations; if not, which recommendations did he (a) accept and (b) reject?
B691E
- (1) Yes.
- (a) during March 1988;
- (b) from the Department of Development Planning
- (2) Yes, the firms:
Plan-Associates;
Rosmarin and Partners;
Plankonsult;
Osborne, Oakenfull and Meekel; and Van der Schyff, Baylis, Gericke and Druce. - (3) No.
- (a) and (b) In my statement of 2 June 1988 in this regard, the Government fully indicated which proposals were acceptable and which were not.
Mr Speaker, on a point of order! what remedy is available to an hon member when he asks a question and the Minister concerned does not get up? In the circumstances I would submit that if the particular Minister is present the member is entitled to require that the Minister should at least get up and say that he will or will not answer.
Order! That is for the presiding officier to decide; not a member.
Mr Speaker, I am raising a point of order.
Order! My ruling is that it is for the presiding officer and not for a member to decide. [Interjections.] In respect of Question No 1, is the hon the Minister or the hon the Deputy Minister present? I then put Question No 1 to the hon the Deputy Minister of Finance.
asked the Minister of Finance:
Whether his Department authorized the Reserve Bank to pay mining houses the proceeds of their gold sales in dollars; if so, (a) what are the advantages to South Africa of this course of action and (b) whose responsibility will it be to see that the proceeds of these gold sales remain in South Africa?
B690E
On the recommendation of the South African Reserve Bank authorisation was granted to pay the mining houses the proceeds of their gold sales in US dollars, with effect from 1 February 1989.
- (a) The Reserve Bank credits the $-accounts of the mining house concerned with the proceeds on day of delivery at the current $-price of gold. The mines therefore do not receive the dollar proceeds in a foreign country, but the dollar amount to their credit must within 7 days be sold to authorised South African foreign exchange dealers.
In this way the local exchange market is broadened and its effectiveness promoted, since private bodies can themselves offer dollars for rand, with the result that the exchange rate of the rand reflects, more effectively, the balance between supply and demand. The South African Reserve Bank, at its own discretion, intervenes in this market in order to stabilise the exchange rate when the market is in disequilibrium. - (b) The fact that the proceeds must be sold in South Africa within the confines of the banking system, and within 7 days, as indicated, obliges the mining houses to treat these proceeds just as does any other receiver of foreign exchange. It necessarily imposes a responsibility on the Reserve Bank to ensure that this system operates within the parameters of the exchange control regulations.
asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:
- (1) Whether the Free Settlement Board is investigating the possibility of establishing a free settlement area in Windmill Park, Boskburg; if so,
- (2) whether the lawful residents of Windmill Park have applied to this board for free settlement area status for their suburb; if so, (a) when and (b) what are the names of these applicants; if not, at whose request is the board investigating this possibility?
B729E
- (1) Yes.
- (2) The Act does not make provision for residents of an area to apply directly to the Free Settlement Board. In this case the Free Settlement Board has been requested in terms of the Act by the Minister’s Council of the House of Assembly.
asked the Minister of Defencert
- (1) Whether, with reference to his reply to Question No 7 on 11 April 1989, the South African Defence Force at any stage during 1988 or 1989 (a) produced or (b) obtained any films, video films, photographs and/or any other photographic material in which certain White residents and/or visitors to the Black residential area of Mamelodi appear, among others a certain person whose name has been furnished to the Defence Force for the purpose of the Minister’s reply; if so,
- (2) whether this film material has been exhibited to any group or groups of national servicemen and/or other members of the Defence Force since November 1988; if so, (a) to how many national servicemen has this film material been exhibited, (b) what are the names of the persons appearing in it, (c) for what purpose was this material exhibited to national servicemen and (d) what attitude towards the persons appearing in the films, video films and/or photographic material concerned did the persons who exhibited the material convey to the national servicemen concerned?
B737E
- (1)
- (a) No.
- (b) Yes, only video films.
- (2) Yes.
- (a) The video film was not shown to any initial National Servicemen but to members of the Citizen Force and Commandos.
- (b) Groups of people appear in the video film amongst whom the person whose name was supplied by the hon member, an unknown Roman Catholic priest and Reverend R. Briggs.
- (c) The video film forms part of an orientation programme for new troops reporting for service in Mamelodi and is shown in order to familiarize them with the circumstances and daily life in the residential area.
- (d) No point of view was taken against the people of Mamelodi and in particular the spiritual leaders.
Mr Speaker, arising out of the reply of the hon the Deputy Minister, does he not believe that in the light of his previous replies to this question, he has deceived the House in those replies?
Mr Speaker, no, in my previous replies I tried to expose that hon member’s total ignorance and his antagonism towards the South African Defence Force. [Interjections.]
Mr Speaker, further arising out of the hon the Deputy Minister’s reply, in the light of the fact that such a video was indeed presented with the material contained in it, does the hon the Deputy Minister blame young men if they experience problems with national service when such a political role is fulfilled by that hon Minister? [Interjections.]
Mr Speaker, no political role was fulfilled and I do not blame those young men.
asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:†
Whether it is the intention of the Government to transfer the functions mentioned in Schedule 2 to the Regional Services Councils Act, No 109 of 1985, to regional services councils; if not, who not; if so, (a) what functions and (b) when?
B755E
The power to entrust functions to regional services councils is in terms of section 3(1)(b) of the Regional Services Councils Act, 1985 (Act 109 of 1985) vest in the Administrator of the province concerned. The Government’s approach is that the entrusting of functions or parts of functions to regional services councils should be a gradual process that should keep pace with the capabilities of the various councils and the needs of their regions.
- (a) and (b) fall away.
Mr Speaker, arising out of the reply of the hon the Deputy Minister, I should like to ask the hon the Deputy Minister, firstly, whether he is aware of and, secondly, whether he agrees with what the Deputy Minister of Development Aid said in the House of Representatives last year on 28 March? I quote from Hansard, 1988, col 5173:
I want to give the hon member Mr Lockey and all the other hon members the assurance that the intention is for all 22 functions to be transferred eventually, even though this will take place systematically or partially.
Mr Speaker, I do not have first-hand knowledge of this point of view. However, it is clear from my reply that the intention is to transfer the functions, but this will take place gradually according to the ability of the regional services councils to take over the functions of the region concerned.
Mr Speaker, further arising out of the reply of the hon the Deputy Minister, I just want to know whether all 22 functions will eventually be transferred.
Mr Speaker, I do not have the reply to that. If the hon member wants to ask a question about that, he is welcome to have it included in the Question Paper.
asked the Minister of Economic Affairs and Technology:
(a) What are the benefits to South Africa of purchasing electricity supplied by the Cahora Bassa Project in Mozambique and (b) what percentage of South Africa’s power requisites (i) was met through Cahora Bassa in 1988 and (ii) is it estimated will be so met in 1989?
B706E
- (a) Apart from any advantage in the field of international relations that co-operation with Portugal and Mozambique may have for South Africa, the purchase of power from the Cahora Bassa project has the following benefits:
- — South Africa can purchase the power at a cheaper tariff than that at which it can produce power itself.
- — South African coal and water resources are conserved.
- — The construction of a new power station to supply an equal amount of power can be delayed, depending on the growth in demand, for approximately 1 to 2 years, with a corresponding saving in interest on the capital costs.
- — Installations erected at great cost in South Africa for the receipt and conversion of the power for injection into the national grid, can be productively utilized.
- (b) Nil. (The transmission lines are out of order since 1983).
- (i) and (ii) Fall away.
Mr Speaker, arising from the hon the Deputy Minister’s reply, I would like to ask what the present over-capacity of Eskom is? In view of the information I have which indicates that we already have a capacity in excess of 50% more than we require, how does the hon the Deputy Minister see us requiring any power from Cahora Bassa?
Mr Speaker, I do not have with me the exact percentage figures of Eskom’s installed over-capacity. However, it is true that we do have more capacity that we are utilising at the present time, but I doubt that is anywhere near 50%. I can get that figure for the hon member and I will do so.
As far as whether or not we should proceed to try to get Cahora Bassa operating, I think that I have clearly stated the benefits for South Africa in the reply to the question. In reqard to approaching the problem of getting Cahora Bassa going, we have taken all the factors I have mentioned into consideration and we believe that it is in the best interests of South Africa.
asked the Minister of Finance:
- (1) Whether the Treasury was prejudiced, directly or indirectly, as a result of an alleged R2 million bribe, particulars of which have been furnished to the Minister’s Department for the purpose of his reply; if so, (a) in what manner, (b) to what extent and (c) what are the (i) circumstances surrounding the matter and (ii) names of the persons involved;
- (2) whether he intends taking any action in this regard; if not, why not; if so, (a) what action and (b) when?
B713E
- (1) No; (a), (b) and (c) fall away.
- (2) No; the Treasury was not prejudiced; (a) and (b) fall away.
asked the Minister of Law and Order:†
- (1) Whether a certain person, whose name has been furnished to the South African Police for the purpose of the Minister’s reply, has been exempted from Reservist duty; if so, when; if not, why not;
- (2) what is the name of this person?
B795E
- (1) Yes, 16 September 1988.
- (2) Mr Sam Bloomberg, MP.
Mr Speaker, arising out of the hon Minister’s reply, may I ask him whether he is aware that under the Standing Rules of the SA Police, a person may not stand as a candidate for a political party if he is a police reservist? [Interjections.]
Mr Speaker, I do not know what my reply to the question has to do with what the hon member asked trie. It does not arise out of it. It is a totally new question. I suggest that the hon member have his question included in the Question Paper and I shall then answer it.
Thus you do not know the answer!
asked the Minister of Finance:
(a) How many fine ounces of gold were sold during the latest specified 12-month period for which figures are available and (b) what was the average price of gold in rand terms over this period?
B717E
- (a) 130 656 and 21 965 154 ounces fine gold was sold by the SA Mint Company and the SA Reserve Bank respectively over the period 1 April 1988 to 31 March 1989 and
- (b) the average price over this period was R990,53 per fine ounce in respect of gold sales by the SA Mint Company, and R1 000,93 per fine ounce in respect of sales by the SA Reserve Bank.
asked the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning:
- (1) Whether the Rumpff Commission has completed its investigations into constitutional and other matters relating to the Moutse district; if not, (a) why not and (b) when is it anticipated that its investigations will be completed; if so, when;
- (2) whether a report on its findings will be tabled in Parliament; if not, why not; if so, when?
B805E
- (1) Yes.
- (a) and (b) fall away.
- (2) No decision has as yet been taken in this regard.
asked the Minister of National Health and Population Development:
(a) How many persons were being held at the State President’s pleasure at institutions falling under his Department as at the latest specified date for which figures are available and (b) (i) what are the names of these institutions and (ii) where are they situated?
B806E
The Department of National Health and Population Development does not have any institutions under its control where State President’s Patients are being held. The relevant institutions were devoluted to the provincial and own affairs administrations. The following information is provided by these administrations:
- (a) 1 335 State President’s Patients as at 31 October 1988.
- (b) (i) and (ii)
- — Midlands Hospital at Pietermaritzburg,
- — Oranje Hospital at Bloemfontein,
- — Stikland Hospital at Bellville, Cape Province,
- — Valkenberg Hospital at Observatory, Cape Province,
- — Komani Hospital at Queenstown,
- — Westfort Hospital at Pretoria,
- — Tower Hospital at Fort Beaufort,
- — Weseinde Hospital at Kimberley,
- — Fort England Hospital at Grahamstown,
- — Witrand Care and Rehabilitation Centre at Potchefstroom,
- — Weskoppies Hospital at Pretoria,
- — Sterkfontein Hospital at Krugersdorp,
- — Lentegeur Hospital at Mitchells Plain, and
- — Nelspoort Care and Rehabilitation Centre at Nelspoort.
asked the Minister of Finance:
- (1) What is the current limit on donations from persons in the Republic to persons and bodies in other countries;
- (2) whether persons are required to obtain a permit for donations exceeding this limit; if so,
- (3) whether, with reference to the reply of the Minister of Constitutional Development and Planning to Question No 19 on 14 March 1989, a Mr J M R Berardo (a) applied for and (b) was granted such a permit for the donation of cycads; if so, what are the relevant details?
B807E
- (1) R1 000.
- (2) Yes.
- (3)
- (a) Yes.
- (b) Yes, the SA Reserve Bank in the circumstances of the request granted permission to the value of R22 300 in respect of a gift to the Botanical Garden s in Madeira.
Mr Speaker, arising from the reply of the hon the Deputy Minister is the Reserve Bank prepared to take action against the individual concerned if evidence is submitted that that shipment was worth a minimum of R300 000 and on world markets R700 000?
Order! The time for questions on general affairs has now expired. The hon the Deputy Minister’s reply can be furnished to the hon member.
Business interrupted in accordinace with Rule 180C (3) of the Standing Rules of Parliament.
asked the Minister of Defence:
What percentage of national servicemen requested exemption from rendering service in townships in 1988?
B808E
There were no reported cases. The hon member is also referred to my reply in this House to written question No 14 of 1989.
asked the Minister of Education and Development Aid:
Whether any principals and/or teachers in the employ of the Department of Education and Training were killed or injured in Natal as a result of violent incidents in the past 12 months; if so, (a) (i) when and (ii) where did these incidents occur and (b) what steps were taken by this Department as a result of these incidents?
B809E
- (1) Yes, but only injured.
- (a)
- (i)
- (1) 20 April 1988
- (2) 14 September 1988
- (3) 1 October 1988
- (4) 19 January 1989
- (5) 1 February 1989
- (ii)
- (1) Inanda residential area
- (2) Inanda residental area
- (3) Imbali residental area
- (4) Vryheid (Northern Natal Collieries)
- (5) Inanda residential area
- (i)
- (b) (1) Case reported to the SAP.
- (a)
- (2) Six pupils suspended from school; SAP was called in.
- (3) Two guilty pupils suspended from school; hostels searched. Action was taken against pupils possessing sharp instruments (arms).
- (4) Corporal punishment administered to guilty pupils, with the consent of their parents.
- (5) Security measures were itensified.
asked his Minister of National Health and Population Development:
- (1) What facilities are there in Natal for the treatment of children suffering from leukemia;
- (2) whether any hospitals in the Republic have a full range of facilities for the treatment of this disease; if so, which hospitals; if not, (a) why not and (b) what is being done to rectify this situation?
B810E
- (1) All major hospitals, academic and regional hospitals in Natal are able to treat children suffering from leukemia; the hospitals concerned are:
Addington Hospital, Durban
R K Khan Hospital, Durban
Clairwood Hospital, Durban
King Edward VIII Hospital, Durban
Grey’s Hospital, Pietermaritzburg
Northdale Hospital, Pietermaritzburg
Eshowe Hospital
Ladysmith Hospital
Port Shepstone Hospital
Newcastle Hospital
Patients from community country hospitals who require treatment are referred to the above hospitals when necessary, - (2) yes, the following information is furnished by the provincial administrations:
NATAL
The hon member is referred to my reply to point one.
TRANSVAAL
H F Verwoerd Hospital
Kalafong Hospital
Ga-Rankuwa Hospital
Johannesburg Hospital
Baragwanath Hospital
Hillbrow Hospital
ORANGE FREE STATE
Pelonomi Hospital
Universitas Hospital
CAPE PROVINCE
Tygerberg Hospital
Groote Schuur Hospital
Red Cross Hospital
(a) and (b) fall away.
asked the Minister of National Health and Population Development:
How many cases of Aids were identified in the Republic, (a) excluding and (b) including the independent Black states, in 1988?
B811E
- (a) 89 cases of AIDS have been identified of which 84 were South African cases and the balance from four foreign countries.
- (b) The Republic of South Africa does not report on data pertinent to the independent National States.
asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs:
(a) How many members of Parliament visited foreign countries at Government expense in the (i) 1987-88 and (ii) 1988-89 financial years and (b) what are their names in each case?
B812E
- (a)
- (i) Excluding myself and the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, three members of Parliament visited foreign countries at the expense of my Department in the 1987-88 financial year, and
- (ii) twenty-three in the 1988-89 financial year;
- (b) The members of Parliament visiting foreign countries in 1987-88 were:
Dr S G A Golden
Dr J N Reddy
Mr A Williams
The members of Parliament visiting foreign countries in 1988-89 were:
Mr A S Akoob
Mr H J Bekker
Mr D de V Graaff
Mr J Douw
Mr A Fourie
Mr T George
Dr S G A Golden
Mr N Jumuna
Mr N E Khan
Mr A E Lambat
Mr J J Lemmer
Mr D Lockey
Rev E J Manikkam
Prof N J J Olivier
Mr M Rajab
Mr C R Redcliffe
Mr J L Retief
Mr I Richards
Mr G Shah
Mr H A Smith
Mr C J van R Botha
Dr J Vilonel
asked the Minister of Law and Order:
- (1) Whether there has been an investigation into the cause of death of a certain person, whose name has been furnished to the South African Police for the purpose of the Minister’s reply, on or about 21 March 1989 at Katlehong; if not, why not; if so, (a) what were the findings and (b) what is the name of this person;
- (2) whether a post-mortem has been held; if so, what were the findings; if not, why not?
B813E
- (1) and (2)
Yes, the cause of death of the person whose name had been furnished by the hon member, is being investigated. As soon as the investigation has been completed, the docket will be submitted to the Public Prosecutor for an inquest to be held. No particulars are therefore furnished at this stage because it may prejudice the investigation and anticipate the findings of the inquest.
asked the Minister of Education and Development Aid:
Whether any additional classrooms were built in 1988 at schools falling under the control of his Departmentl if not, why not; if so, (a) how many additional classroom places were provided in that year and (b) what was the total cost of providing these additional classrooms?
B815E
Yes.
- (a) 88 865.
- (b) R147 004 697.
asked the Minister of Education and Development Aid:
Whether there was any shortage of classroom places in 1988 at (a) primary and (b) secondary schools administered by his Department; if so, how many classroom places were short at (i) primary and (ii) secondary schools; if not, what was the average number of pupils per classroom at (aa) primary and (bb) secondary schools?
B817E
- (a) Yes.
- (b) Yes.
The estimated shortage of classrooms (not shortage of classroom places) based on a basis of 40 primary and 35 secondary pupils per classroom are as follows.- (i) 1 782 classrooms (March 1988).
- (ii) 2 730 classrooms (March 1988)
- (aa) Falls away.
- (bb) Falls away.
asked the Minister of Agriculture:
Whether he has at any time taken any decision regarding the prevention of sales and/or the use of hormonal herbicides in any part of South Africa; if not, why not; if so, (a) (i) in respect of which areas and (ii) when were these decisions taken, (b) what were the circumstances surrounding these decisions and (c) which herbicides were involved in each case?
B818E
- (a) (i) and (ii) and (c) The particulars were fully published in Government Notice 89 of 16 January 1987, as substituted by Government Notice R.949 of 30 April 1987, which in it’s turn was substituted by Government Notice R. 1992 of 30 September 1989.
- (b) Farmers reported damage to certain vegetable crops, allegedly caused by the herbicides indicated in the said Notices.
The sign * indicates a translation. The sign † used subsequently in the same interpellation, indicates the original language.
Own Affairs:
asked the Minister of Health Services and Welfare:
Whether the Government intends increasing social pensions; if not, why not?
B828E.INT
Mr Speaker, the position of social pensioners receives constant consideration by the Government, and also by the Ministers’ Council of the Administration: House of Assembly. I want to give hon members the assurance that if circumstances permit and funds can be made available for this purpose an increase in social pensions and allowances will always receive favourable consideration.
*In 1962 the Government set itself the objective of adjusting social pensions and allowances annually if it was in any way possible and if funds for this purpose could be made available. We were able to attain this objective, except in 1988. I realise that the Treasury could not make funds available during 1988 for an increase in pensions and allowances.
Nevertheless, we received a stream of appeals. We cannot simply say no to each plea and react negatively. Therefore I was grateful that during January 1989 considerable increases were granted to people receiving pensions and allowances. I want to point out that the basic pension for Whites increased by R154 per month, or 158,76%, from October 1979 to January 1989. Given all criteria these concessions were as generous as the Treasury could manage. This proves that the Government of the day is sympathetic towards our aged and under-privileged people.
†I can assure hon members that the Government is fully aware of the hardships experienced by the aged and other social pensioners to make ends meet under present economic conditions. Sight must, however, not be lost of the fact that the South African social pension schemes are non contributory by nature and that funds to finance these schemes are derived solely from taxation. The main objective of the schemes is also not to make pensioners financially fully independent but merely financially to assist the family or the community to care for elderly, underprivileged persons. It has always been the Government’s point of view that it is the duty of every citizen during his economically active life to provide for his old age or for times of need, even to such an extent that it will not be necessary to ask for assistance from the State.
One can realise that the country’s relatively small number of taxpayers cannot be taxed indiscriminately … [Time expired.]
Mr Speaker, we hear again that the Government is always giving consideration to the question of social pensions. The matter is under consideration again, we are told. I want to say, however, that the issue of social pensions is one that has been hotly debated in this House for a number of years. Opposition spokesmen for more than a decade have pointed out the gross injustices meted out by the Government to social pensioners, while hon Ministers from the governing party have in fact expressed their concern for the aged without really doing anything at all. One only needs to read Hansard over the past ten years—read all the debates that have taken place on this subject—to realise how sadly misplaced the Government’s reasoning is, or rather how little the Government seems to care, while it is indeed the Government that should care for the aged.
They do not care at all!
Only last year we listened to the hon the Minister of Health Services and Welfare in this House trying desperately to convince us that the Government’s decision not to grant an increase in social pensions during the 1988-89 financial year was justified; that in fact a R60 one-off bonus was all that was needed to ease the burden of the social pensioner.
Scandalous!
He tried to show then that social pensions had in fact increased by more that 213% between 1976 and 1987, and today we hear again about percentage increases. The statistics, however, are irrelevant. They are absolutely irrelevant in terms of the real needs of the aged and also in terms of what has happened to the South African economy. One hundred percent of nothing is nothing. Two hundred and thirteen percent of very little remains very little. This is exactly what the increase in social pensions in rand and cents has meant over the past decade— very little.
With the increases in social pensions against the real inflation rate running at between 13% and more than 20% for the past 15 years, there is no doubt that social pensioners are much worse off now than they were ten years ago. There have been constant calls on the Government to raise the means test for social pensioners. Last year, in this House, the hon the Minister announced, and I quote—
May I ask the hon the Minister what the outcome of such considerations is? He said again today that consideration is always being given to this but we never hear the result. Surely by now some decision must have been reached. There have been requests for years for the means test to be revised but to no avail. We have to face the fact that more and more desperate elderly people in South Africa are either not in a position to receive a social pension because of the inadequacy of the means test or, if they do receive a pension, it is grossly inadequate.
Against this background we have the Government setting aside R1 billion for little more than election pay-off extravaganzas such as the writing off of R460 million in Maize Board deficits and reintroducing diesel subsidies to farmers. These are obviously both aimed at securing the farmers’ vote. Then we also have the extraordinary introduction, at a time when our economy can least afford it, of long service awards. [Time expired.]
Mr Chairman, in December last year I made enquiries at a home for the aged in need of care and discovered that the average unit cost in respect of the organisation concerned amounted to R816 per month at that stage. It has certainly increased considerably since then as a result of the series of price increases in the meantime. My argument is that if this is the case, how can the hon the Minister expect an elderly person who is completely dependent on his own resources and receives no other assistance, to live on an amount of R251 per month? It is impossible!
It is Government policy, and this is on record, that parity in social pensions must be effected for all population groups. I now want to ask the hon the Minister what period of time and what method are envisaged to bring this about. Will the percentage increase for Whites remain much lower than for other population groups?
I want to quote from a letter which is a cry of distress from a social pensioner and which is characteristic of that received from thousands of social pensioners:
She goes on to say:
Mr Speaker, it is too much to expect our White pensioners to provide for clothing and food, as in this case, out of R122 per month these days. While the Government is so generously running the show these days with the election in mind, it should remember that these people are also taxpayers and voters. We ask that they also be assisted and that they also receive a little generosity. [Interjections.]
Mr Speaker, the hon member for Durban North referred to a means test. Surely a means test should be applied when pensions are granted. If there were no means test, there would be absolute chaos in that sphere. It is a fact that we did consider the means test. We apply the means test with discretion, but we cannot do away with it because then we would have chaos.
I want to tell the hon member for Pietersburg that my responsibility lies with the White pensioner and the White aged. I cannot talk about the other population groups. My job is to help the White aged.
The hon member for Pietersburg also referred to costs per unit. We regularly determine the cost per unit in old-age homes. We constantly adjust our subsidy, the working capital which we contribute to old-age homes. I want to tell the hon member that our contribution this year to old-age homes and other existing institutions amounts to R140 million in working capital alone. This has to be carried through, because once one has started contributing that working capital to an old-age home, one has to keep it up until that project no longer exists. That amount simply increases every year.
I agree wholeheartedly with the hon member for Pietersburg that one certainly cannot exist on R251 per month, but I also want to tell the hon member that that is not all we do for the aged.
The department is not the only one helping the aged. I also want to point out the fact that the department grants subsidies and builds service centres. The aged are subsidised and they can go to these service centres for certain services, such as regular meals. I want to tell the hon member that at present there are approximately 60 000 subeconomic aged in subsidised old-age homes. [Time expired.]
Mr Speaker, I am sorry that the hon member for Pietersburg brought up the matter of comparing social pensions on a percentage basis. Seeing that he has done so, I think it is important to point out that the maximum pension that a Black social pensioner may receive is R150 per month and the maximum pension a White pensioner may receive is R251 per month. This seems to be a very substantial difference, particularly when we bear in mind that the household subsistence levels for Blacks in, for example, the Johannesburg area are now approaching R550 per month. That argument, therefore, is not really a an argument that reflects caring for aged people.
Secondly, I would like to deal with the question of the means test. At present one may receive a pension of R251 if one’s income is no more than R89 per month. For every R2 that one’s income goes up, the amount of the pension goes down. Surely R89 per month is a pittance! In the light of the inflationary situation this should certainly be reviewed.
There is also the question of free assets. One is entitled to have free assets of R10 000. That was fixed some considerable time ago when inflationary conditions were completely different. Surely there is a case to be made out to review that situation.
The difficulty one has is that according to the latest figures that I have available is that there are 212 075 White pensioners receiving social pensions. Those people are in dire need of help. What is more important? To go and buy Swiss watches or to go and help social pensioners? What is more important? To decide to help the Maize Board which has got itself into trouble or to help elderly people who are need of help? The issue is one of priorities. [Time expired.]
Mr Speaker, I would like to carry on where the hon member for Yeoville left off, namely the whole question of expensive Swiss watches and so forth. There is no doubt about it that this money should have been channelled towards a far better cause—social pensions.
We must accept that at the end of the day it is the social pensioners who appear to be of little or no significance in Government planning. This has been proved again this year.
Over the past decade the social pensioners have grown poorer and poorer every year as the increase in the cost of living has always been greater than the increase in pensions granted.
The steady decline in the real value of the pensions has had disastrous consequences for the tens of thousands of pensioners. This can only reflect a grave injustice to pensioners. I must ask if the Government does not care whether social old-age pensioners suffer acute discomfort. I think that that is the point which arises from this very short debate.
It seems that the Government has adopted the attitude that all social pensioners are rare sorts of creatures who no longer need to purchase certain medicines from private practitioners. [Time expired.]
Mr Speaker, the hon member for Yeoville said that we should consider certain amounts in the means test and that it should be revised. I want to assure the hon member that we continuously give consideration to the matter and shall also consider the amounts he mentioned.
I said our department was not the only one which cared for the aged. There are also certain suppliers of health services who provide these services at nominal tariffs to the poorer aged. The Department of Housing also makes amounts available to the aged at an interest rate of 1% to enable them to acquire homes.
I should like to emphasise that it is obvious that children should also contribute to the care of their parents. There is a saying that one parent finds it possible to care for many children, but that many children do not find it possible to care for one parent. This is particularly true of the Whites. Children are no longer prepared to take care of their parents. That is probably why there are 423 homes for the White aged in South Africa, whereas the other population groups only have a total of 73 homes for the aged.
In the case of Blacks it was traditionally the responsibility of a couple’s eldest son to take care of his aged parents. This tradition still prevails in the rural areas and I think it is necessary that we as Whites follow this example.
I want to conclude by giving the assurance that we in the Ministers’ Council certainly give consideration to the position of the White aged and to pensions. If it is in any way possible, and if the funds are available, we shall increase pensions. [Time expired.]
Debate concluded.
†Indicates translated version.
For oral reply:
Own Affairs:
asked the Minister of Education and Culture:†
Whether (a) temporarily and (b) permanently appointed teachers make contributions in terms of the provisions of the Unemployment Insurance Act, No 30 of 1966; if not, why not?
B796E
- (a) Yes, provided that their earnings do not exceed R35 000 per annum,
- (b) no, they are excluded in terms of section 2(2)(m) of the Unemployment Insurance Act as they contribute to the Government Service Pension Fund.
asked the Minister of Education and Culture:
Whether he intends to implement the Education Affairs Act (House of Assembly), No 70 of 1988, during the course of 1989; if so, when will the regulations pertaining to this legislation be published?
B819E
Yes, as soon as possible.
asked the Minister of Education and Culture:
- (1) Whether all student places in colleges of education falling under the control of his Department are filled; if so, how many such places are there; if not, (a) how many places are vacant and (b) why are they vacant;
- (2) whether any arrangements have been made with any other departments of education for the utilization of any colleges of education, or parts thereof, falling under the control of his Department; if so, what arrangements;
- (3) whether any colleges of education, or parts thereof, have been disposed of in any way to any other Government Department or organization; if so, (a) which colleges and (b) to which Government Department or organization in each case?
B820E
(1) No,
(a) |
Cape |
1 354 |
Natal |
1 004 |
|
OFS |
238 |
|
Transvaal |
971 |
|
Total |
3 567 |
(b) student quotas at each college of education have been reduced;
- (2) no, but there is an agreement with the Department of Education and Culture: House of Representatives and the KwaZulu Education Department to admit a number of their teachers to the distance teaching college, the Natal College of Education, for further training;
- (3) yes,
(a) |
(b) |
Cape |
|
Paarl College of Education |
SA Police |
Oudtshoorn College of Education |
SA Defence Force |
OFS |
|
Bloemfontein College of Education (two hostels and one college building) |
Technikon OFS |
Transvaal |
|
Onderwyskollege Pretoria (part of old campus) |
SA Defence Force |
For written reply:
General Affairs:
asked the Minister of Nationa Health and Population Development:
- (1) Whether any cuts in staff establishment were determined at the (a) J G Strijdom, (b) Coronation, (c) Johannesburg, (d) Hillbrow and (e) Baragwanath Hospital in any staff category in 1988; if so, what cuts in each specified category at each of these hospitals;
- (2) whether the cuts affect medical teaching posts; if so, in what way;
- (3) whether the cuts were determined in consultation with (a) Medical Faculty of the University of the Witwatersrand and (b) Vice-Chancellor of that university; if not, why not;
- (4) whether the cuts were agreed to by the authorities of the above-mentioned university; if so, on what date was agreement reached;
- (5) whether the withdrawn posts will be terminated with immediate effect as they become vacant; if not, what procedure will be followed?
B490E
- (1) (a), (b), (c), (d) and (e)
No, due to occupational specific dispensations some alterations e.g. re-namings and re-allocations of existing posts occurred; - (2) to (5) fall away.
asked the Minister of Manpower:
Whether any national servicemen who were granted the status of religious objectors have had to wait to be placed in alternative service; if so, how many such religious objectors were not placed in alternative service for (a) 12 months, (b) 9 months, (c) 6 months and (d) 3 months in 1988?
B500E
Yes.
- (a) 1
- (b) 1
- (c) 2
- (d) 20
asked the Minister for Administration and Privatisation:
- (1) Whether public service bursaries were offered in the 1988-89 financial year; if so, (a) (i) how many and (ii) what total amount of money was involved and (b) (i) how many such bursaries were awarded to persons from each specified race group and (ii) what was the value of the bursaries so awarded per race group;
- (2) whether there was any decrease in the number of bursaries offered; if so, (a) why and (b) what was the extent of the decrease in comparison with the 1987-88 financial year?
B541
- (1) Yes
- (a)
- (i) 2 465 (of which 1 768 were awarded)
- (ii) R4 327 012 (awarded)
- (a)
(b) |
(i) Whites |
: 1 376 |
Coloureds |
: 128 |
|
Indians |
: 80 |
|
Blacks |
: 184 |
(ii) |
Whites |
: R3 533 670 |
Coloureds |
: R 192 233 |
|
Indians |
: R 324 008 |
|
Blacks |
: R 277 101 |
(2) No, (a) and (b) fall away
asked the Minister of Manpower:
- (1) How many national servicemen who had obtained the status of religious objectors were assigned to his Department for placement in alternative service in 1988;
- (2) whether any of these religious objectors remained to be placed in alternative service as at 31 December 1988; if so, how many (a) had and (b) had not been so placed as at that date?
B547E
- (1) 222
- (2) Yes
- (a) Placed —198 Deferment granted — 6
- (b) 18
asked the Minister of Manpower:
- (1) How many national servicemen (a) applied for and (b) were granted the status of religious objectors in 1988;
- (2) how many of these persons were (a) Jehovah’s Witnesses, (b) Roman Catholics, (c) Anglicans, (d) Methodists, (e) Baptists, (f) Presbyterians, (g) members of the Dutch Reformed Church and (h) members of any other specified religious denominations?
B548E
- (1)
- (a) 329
- (b) 222
- (2)
- (a) 162
- (b) 5
- (c) 10
- (d) 4
- (e) 0
- (f) 0
- (g) 2
- (h) 39
Christadelphians |
6 |
Glenridge Christian Fellowship |
2 |
Jewish |
1 |
Manor Community Church |
1 |
Quaker (Society of Friends) |
2 |
Rastafarian |
1 |
Seventh Day Adventists |
1 |
United Congregational Church |
2 |
World Wide Church of God |
23 |
asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:
Whether any money is to be or has been spent on houses which are adjacent to the lighthouses at (a) Fish River Mouth, (b) Cape St Francis and (c) Danger Point and are the property of the South African Transport Services; if so, (i) how much in each case, (ii) for what purpose and (iii) who will be entitled to use these houses?
B656E
(a), (b) and (c) Yes.
(i) |
Fish River Mouth |
— R26 200 |
Cape St Francis |
— R 2 507 |
|
Danger Point |
— R92 300 |
(ii) Fish River Mouth
Refurbishing and refurnishing of two houses and routine maintenance to the Lighthouse-keeper’s house.
Cape St Francis
Refurnishing of one house.
Danger Point
Refurbishing and refurnishing of two houses and routine maintenance to the Lighthouse-keeper’s house.
(iii) Lighthouse-inspectors, maintenance personnel, SA Harbours’ clients, local and overseas counterparts, opinion leaders, etc.
The facilities will also be let to the private sector for the holding of seminars. In this manner income will be derived which would contribute towards keeping the houses preserved for the future.
Since lighthouses became automised the number of lighthouse-keepers was reduced from three to one in these instances. When assets become obsolete its economical viability is carefully determined whereupon consideration is extended to either demolish or otherwise restore it for practical use. The latter option was found to be justified.
asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:
How many employees who were still in the service of the South African Transport Services as at 31 December 1988, had bought back pensionable service?
B657E
12 405.
asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:
(a) How many South African Transport Services employees who bought back pensionable service have retired since the buying-back of pensionable service came into effect in respect of the Transport Services, (b) what total amount, excluding any interest on the amounts outstanding, did these persons pay to buy back such service, (c) what total amount was received by these persons in increased gratuities in respect of such service, (d) what total additional amount in monthly pensions is paid to them as a result of their having bought back pensionable service and (e) in respect of what date is this information furnished?
B658E
- (a) 29 196
- (b), (c) and (d) The information is not readily available and it will take much time and expense to gather such information.
- (e) 17 April 1989.
asked the Minister of Manpower:
How many males and females, respectively, were registered at labour bureaux as workseekers in terms of the Guidance and Placement Act, No 62 of 1981, as at the end of each month in 1988?
B663E
(See table on cols. 947 and 948.)
asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:
Whether he intends providing any subsidy to members of a certain taxi association, the name of which has been furnished to the Ministers’ Department for the purpose of his reply; if so, (a) why, (b) what will the amount of the subsidy be and (c) what is the name of this association?
B696E
No.
(a), (b) and (c) fall away.
asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:
What was the extent of the subsidy granted to bus operators in respect of commuter traffic in each of the four main metropolitan areas in the 1987-88 financial year?
B762E
Johannesburg/Pretoria |
: R115 053 011,99 |
Cape Town/Peninsula |
: R 37 211 683,61 |
Port Elizabeth/Uitenhage |
: R 11 994 578,78 |
Durban/Pinetown |
: R 55 652 221,87 |
The attention of the honourable member is drawn to the fact that the above-mentioned information was already supplied in my reply to question 68 of 24 February 1989.
asked the Minister of Finance:
- (1) Whether provision has been made for persons or bodies other than bona fide farmers to be granted loans by the Land Bank;
- (2) whether any such persons or bodies received loans from the Land Bank over the latest specified period of five years for which figures are avilable; if so, (a) why, (b) in terms of what statutory provisions or regulations, (c) what are the names of these persons or bodies and (d) (i) what were the amounts of the loans granted and (ii) on what dates were they granted?
B725E
- (1) Yes—in terms of section 21(1)(c) ter read with section 45 quat of the Land Bank Act, 1944 (Act 13 of 1944).
- (2) No
- (a), (b), (c) and (d) (i) and (ii) fall away.
Own Affairs:
asked the Minister of Education and Culture:
How many non-White children were attending (a) State-subsidized private schools and (b) State-controlled schools in each of the four provinces as at the latest specified date for which figures are available?
B685E
*
(a) |
*(b) |
||
Cape |
2 351 |
27 |
(as at 1989-04-18) |
Natal |
1 716 |
3 |
(as at 1989-04-18) |
OFS |
196 |
7 |
(as at 1989-04-18) |
Transvaal |
5 486 |
68 |
(as at 1989-04-18) |
*Children of diplomats and members of consular missions.
TOTAL REGISTRATIONS: 1988
Jan |
Feb |
Mar |
Apr |
May |
Jun |
Jul |
Aug |
Sept |
Oct |
Nov |
Dec |
|||||||||||||
M |
F |
M |
F |
M |
F |
M |
F |
M |
F |
M |
F |
M |
F |
M |
F |
M |
F |
M |
F |
M |
F |
M |
F |
|
Bloemfontein |
4466 |
2 554 |
4 867 |
2718 |
4 678 |
2 745 |
4520 |
2 459 |
4 605 |
2 351 |
4 821 |
2 333 |
4 946 |
2 325 |
5199 |
2 405 |
5194 |
2 386 |
5 289 |
2 375 |
5 269 |
2 332 |
5 085 |
2 313 |
Cape Town |
14 683 |
7 708 |
14 701 |
9421 |
15 603 |
9 474 |
13 187 |
9 149 |
12 552 |
9 248 |
12 989 |
8 431 |
11955 |
7 524 |
11993 |
7 670 |
11635 |
7 018 |
11959 |
7 395 |
11763 |
7157 |
10 029 |
6 283 |
Durban |
22 699 |
10 713 |
26 503 |
12 877 |
23 089 |
11402 |
22 531 |
11015 |
21802 |
11032 |
22 814 |
11051 |
23116 |
10 821 |
22 843 |
10 355 |
22144 |
9 331 |
20 809 |
8 530 |
19 970 |
8 507 |
17 106 |
7918 |
East London |
2 843 |
1440 |
3 377 |
1733 |
2553 |
1360 |
2 665 |
1 184 |
1982 |
873 |
1964 |
754 |
2 299 |
891 |
2 212 |
755 |
2 524 |
894 |
2 228 |
641 |
2 024 |
594 |
1791 |
481 |
George |
1374 |
806 |
1531 |
952 |
1548 |
838 |
1518 |
924 |
1695 |
1040 |
1614 |
1066 |
1667 |
1076 |
1743 |
1158 |
1671 |
1144 |
1818 |
1166 |
1529 |
1085 |
1763 |
1242 |
Johannesburg |
28 005 |
12 739 |
31 577 |
14 964 |
31 061 |
13 183 |
28 918 |
12134 |
30103 |
11854 |
27 897 |
11 561 |
27 569 |
11586 |
28 338 |
12 468 |
27 982 |
12 065 |
27 986 |
11954 |
24172 |
9 222 |
23 837 |
8 621 |
Kimberley |
2 518 |
988 |
2160 |
776 |
2104 |
783 |
2167 |
700 |
1970 |
775 |
1968 |
761 |
1978 |
875 |
2 253 |
925 |
2 230 |
921 |
2143 |
867 |
2 038 |
814 |
1921 |
714 |
Port Elizabeth |
5 291 |
2 070 |
6255 |
3 045 |
5121 |
2 508 |
4 368 |
1961 |
4181 |
1861 |
4 446 |
2017 |
4656 |
2 348 |
4 969 |
2102 |
4383 |
1995 |
4121 |
1945 |
3 603 |
1649 |
2 273 |
1026 |
Pretoria |
12 812 |
6991 |
17 475 |
8 308 |
14160 |
6 504 |
13 019 |
6452 |
12 317 |
5 477 |
13 012 |
5 549 |
11986 |
5 231 |
12 278 |
5 769 |
11663 |
5 443 |
11476 |
6 094 |
8610 |
5 252 |
7 572 |
4 204 |
Total |
94 691 |
46 009 |
108 446 |
54 794 |
99 917 |
48 797 |
92 893 |
45 978 |
91207 |
44 511 |
91 525 |
43 523 |
90172 |
42 677 |
91 828 |
43 607 |
89 426 |
41 197 |
87 829 |
40967 |
78 978 |
36 612 |
71377 |
32 802 |
The sign * indicates a translation. The sign † used subsequently in the same interpellation, indicates the original language.
Own Affairs:
asked the Minister of Education and Culture:
Whether Zonnebloem College is to be closed; if so, what provision has been or is to be made for the students of this college?
C92E.INT
Mr Chairman, the reply is yes. The lease of the Zonnebloem Education College buildings expires at the end of 1992. No provision exists for the renewal of the lease due to the fact that the renewal clause has been deleted from the original contract after consultation with the relevant church authorities and at their request. Apart from the question of leasing, the Zonnebloem Education College complex was originally used for the training of female teachers at a post-Std 8 level, in other words, for the obtaining of the Lower Primary Teachers’ Certificate, LPTC, and the Junior Primary Teachers’ Certificate, JPTC. This level of teacher-training was gradually phased out so that since 1982 all teacher-training is offered at a post-Std 10 level.
The existing building structure and facilities at Zonnebloem do not conform to the prescribed norms for effective teacher training at post-Std 10 level and as such the continued use of the said structure and facilities will not serve the interests of education in general and teacher training in particular. Considering all the relevant circumstances, the department has no other alternative but to close the particular college.
At present there are 169 first- and second-year students enrolled at the Zonnebloem College. All of them together with the possible third-year failures, will be taken up at the new Kuils River Education College.
The closing date is December 1989. The reason for this is to ensure the maximum utilisation of the Kuils River Education College, not only as far as students are concerned, but also as far as lecturing staff is concerned. In the meantime the Zonnebloem buildings will be used inter alia to accommodate pupils of a school when a school building is being upgraded. [Time expired.]
Mr Chairman, I put this question. Hon members are probably all aware that this educational institution was the birthplace of our cultural development and progress. Many of the teachers one still comes across talk these days about this beacon in our evolutionary history with sadness. Now this institution is going to suffer the same fate as the old Hugh African Training Centre in Johannesburg. There was also a request for the preservation of that institution.
Zonnebloem College is one of the oldest colleges in the country, and in my opinion it should be preserved at all costs. [Interjections.] In fact, it should be declared a national monument and restored to its original glory. [Interjections.] It is interesting that hon members make a joke of it when I say this institution should be declared a national monument. [Interjections.] That is where things started.
The hon the Minister says the college cannot be used effectively for modern training. I realise that, but the building can be extended in order to modernise it. [Interjections.] I want to know whether the rector and the students’ council were consulted when a decision was taken. That appears not to be the case. We know the group areas history of District Six. Why should we allow the community to be upset by this as well? It is said that the church wants the money. The church says that is not true, however. [Interjections.] Who is telling the truth? [Interjections.] [Time expired.]
Mr Chairman, the official reason the Department of Education and Culture has given up to now for closing Zonnebloem College at the end of this year, is that “it places a financial burden on education funds”. Yet the Department of Education and Culture will still have to pay the rent for this building which it leases from the Anglican Church until 1992. This means that a total amount of approximately R1 million will have to be paid for a building that is not being utilised by the Department of Education and Culture. [Interjections.]
In the Sunday Times Extra of 16 April 1989 a House of Representatives spokesman, Mr Thinus Dempsey, was reported to have said, and I quote:
[Time expired.]
Mr Chairman, I find it very interesting that hon members make such a fuss about a matter that is not really controversial, and on which they should really agree with us. [Interjections.] I also want to know from the hon the Minister where the students who are studying at the college at present live. Will it not inconvenience them if they now have to go to Kuils River? [Interjections.] The hon the Minister of Local Government and Housing is laughing. [Interjections.] These are questions to which one wants replies.
If this is not a serious matter, I should like to know why the students boycotted classes last week and the week before as a result of the closure of the college. [Interjections.] That is … [Time expired.]
Mr Chairman, I think as Minister of Education and Culture it behoves me to express our sincere gratitude, not only to the Anglican Church but to all churches in South Africa who have made a major contribution to education among an oppressed community. I have to remind hon members that the first educational institution was the Hankey Training School which was closed in 1920 and became the Dower College under the Congregational Church. There was the Wesley Training College under the Methodist Church and the Perseverance Training College in Kimberley. The Anglican Church was involved in Zonnebloem College. The Dutch Reformed Church was heavily involved in the Batswood Training College.
If we are to make sentiment, the whole question of decisions on what is best for the future would be as applicable to those churches that have made the sacrifices and who are involved in the transfer of their buildings to the department. The same sentiment ought to have been expressed when the Dower College buildings were transferred to Port Elizabeth. Those who are in the college at the moment will certainly not suffer any difficulty with regard to transport. Some of them enjoy a hostel facility. If the hon member visits Kuils River College he will find that there is no other training facility—not even within the so-called White group—that can compare with the facilities that are being provided there.
We cannot handle the whole question of declaring the property a monument because it belongs to the diocese of the Anglican Church. We certainly cannot improve upon the facilities. If one goes to Kuils River and sees the modern lecture rooms and all the facilities, one will realise that this is certainly a good investment for the future. It is not a financial burden as the hon member for Schauderville tried to imply. The buildings are actually going to be used by the Department of Education and Culture for education. [Time expired.]
Debate concluded.
asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:
Whether his Department intends making erf 4063 in Eldorado Park available to a certain teachers’ association, the name of which has been furnished to the Minister’s Department for the purpose of his reply; if so, (a) when and (b) at what price; if not, why not?
C93E.INT
Mr Chairman, the answer is No, (a) falls away and (b) falls away.
Mr Chairman, I find the answer alone interesting. The hon the Minister is aware of the controversy surrounding this particular erf. On 2 November 1987, reference number 17-3-1-2-3727, Mr H S Mouton of the department replied to an applicant who had previously wanted to buy this erf for business purposes that he could not get it, because the Department of Public Works and Land Affairs wanted it for official use. Yet, after the teachers’ association had applied for this erf, it was sold to a private company for business purposes. It also emerges, as is customary in the department, that tenders for the sale of this erf were not called for.
Is this an irregularity or is it the department’s normal procedure to sell erven in that way? I think the department should institute an investigation into the sale of this erf. The teachers’ association applied for this side for the erection of a teachers’ centre—this is not formal education—with a view to establishing a career centre, a study centre, an organised youth and social club, a centre for the improvement of literacy in the community and a computer centre.
We know the department says that the necessary funds to provide such facilities are not available at present, but this is a case of people taking their own initiative and they want to erect that centre there. It will cost millions of rand. [Time expired.]
Mr Chairman, I had a look at the documentation. To my mind the Eldorado Park Educational and Recreational Trust submitted a well-motivated application for erf 4063 Eldorado Park. On what criteria was this particular site allocated to M & M Motors of which Mr Donovan Mateman is a main shareholder? We would like to know this from the hon the Minister.
One would have thought that the hon the Minister’s department would have gone out of their way to support this application of the trust. There exists—the hon the Minister knows this— a dire need for institutions like the one being contemplated by that particular trust. We have a situation where an erf was allocated to somebody for profit-making purposes when it could have been utilised for educational purposes.
Mr Chairman, there is something very strange concerning this erf which I want to single out here. On 16 May 1988 this association wrote to the hon the Minister. They are still waiting for an answer. They did not even receive an acknowledgement of receipt. The hon the Minister sits there and simplistically answers “no”. On 17 January 1989 the hon member for Klipspruit West also wrote a letter to the hon the Minister, to no avail.
I now ask the hon the Minister what is going on here. For the sake of the education and the development of the education of 25 000 pupils in that area, I want to ask him to reconsider his decision and to sell the erf to the trust which is controlled by means of the Transvaal Teachers’ Association. [Time expired.]
Mr Chairman, the hon member for Reigerpark put a question to me, and I replied to the question as it was put in writing. If he wants further information, he can put that in writing.
Debate concluded.
†Indicates translated version.
For oral reply:
Own Affairs:
asked the Minister of the Budget:
- (1) Whether his Department experienced any difficulties in regard to certain telephone bills incurred by the Minister of the Budget in the 1984-85 financial year; if so, what was the nature of these difficulties;
- (2) whether these bills were paid by his Department; if so, (a) why and (b) what was the total amount involved; if not, why not?
D88E
- (1) Yes.
The Department had difficulty in obtaining a statement on official calls the Minister of the Budget had made from the telephone at his private residence. The statement was a pre-requisite to determining the amount recoverable from the Minister in respect of private calls. - (2) Yes.
- (a) To prevent the Minister’s telephone being disconnected on account of unpaid Post Office accounts.
- (b) R1 2256,37 (of which R157,75 for private calls has been recovered).
Mr Chairman, arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, could he tell us: (1) Who was the Minister of the Budget during the period 1984-1985; and (2) How many days did this amount of R1 256,37 cover?
Mr Chairman, the answer to question 1 is that the hon member of Laudium was the Minister of the Budget at that time, and to question 2, that it was for the financial year 1984-85.
Mr Chairman, further arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, I would like to know whether it was for the whole year.
It was for the financial year, and therefore for a whole year until the end of the financial year, being 31 August.
Mr Chairman, further arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, do I understand that the only problem which arose at that time was that the department had not been able to get any statements or any verification for claims made for the payment of telephone bills?
Mr Chairman, the difficulty which arose was to separate the private calls vis-à-vis the official calls.
asked the Minister of Housing:
- (1) Whether portion 7 of erf 551, Asiatic Bazaar, Pretoria, was allocated to a certain firm or business concern for resettlement purposes; if so, what is the name of this firm or business concerned;
- (2) whether this firm or business concern was liquidated subsequently; if so,
- (3) whether the site in question is to be (a) repossessed or (b) resold by auction or tender;
- (4) whether he will make a statement on the matter?
D89E
- (1) Yes, E I Abramjee Properties (Pty) Ltd.
- (2) No.
- (3)
- (a) Falls away.
- (b) Falls away.
- (4) No.
Mr Chairman, arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, do I understand that: (1) There was no resettlement whatsoever involved in this allocation; and (2) It is the policy of the department to dispose of properties without advertising them so that fair competition can be provided for?
Mr Chairman, I suggest that the hon member Mr Abram puts his questions down in writing and he will receive a response at the appropriate time.
Cover-up!
Mr Chairman, further arising out of the hon the Minister’s reply, will he kindly confirm that at the relevant time someone else and not he was the Minister of Housing, and that that person had a propensity for giving rewards for services rendered?
Mr Chairman, my only response is that I was not the Minister of Housing at that time.
For written reply:
General Affairs:
asked the Minister of Transport Affairs:
- (1) How many Indians were employed by the South African Airways as (a) cabin attendants and (b) clerks as at the latest specified date for which figures are available;
- (2) whether these (a) cabin attendants and (b) clerks are members of the permanent staff; if not, why not;
- (3) what is the longest period for which any Indian cabin attendant or clerk has been employed by the South African Airways?
D69E
- (1)
- (a) Six. As at 13 April 1989.
- (b) Two senior clerks and seven clerks. As at 13 April 1989.
- (2)
- (a) Yes.
- (b) Two senior clerks and one clerk have been appointed to the permanent staff. Six clerks do not as yet qualify for appointment to the permanent service as they have not completed two years service.
- (3) Cabin attendant — since 1 July 1982 Senior clerk — since 1 November 1977 Clerk — since 13 October 1986.