Mr Chairman, right at the outset of my speech yesterday I asked the hon the Minister to give an undertaking on behalf of the Government that the Government would act effectively and positively against the Afrikanervolkswag should that organization be guilty of propagating racism and violence. Mr Chairman, the hon the Minister was as silent as the grave about that request. No answer was forthcoming from him on behalf of the Government, and I think that is an answer which he and the Government owe South Africa. I also want to add that the allegation of the hon the Minister and other spokesmen on that side of the House that the CP are exploiting Afrikaner cultural organizations for political ends is ludicrous when seen against the background of the NP’s own record in this respect. For more than half a century the NP has continuously, blatantly, unscrupulously and brazenly exploited and misused virtually every Afrikaner cultural organization to feed the NP’s lust for power and to strengthen its position of power. The Afrikaner Broederbond’s record of secrecy and of prejudice against other groups and of the unfair favouring of its own group at the expense of others, of infiltrating the Public Service, schools, churches etc, is just as unacceptable and detestable and just as repulsive as the obviously crude racism of the AV. They are birds of a feather. Both are a threat to democracy, stability and racial peace in our country. Both should be rejected by every right-minded person. Mr Chairman, I want to tell you that if the hon the Minister and the Government do not have the courage or the conviction to act against an organization when they think that such action will not be to their advantage politically, then I want to assure you that had the PFP been in power we would have acted effectively against organizations which stir up violence in South Africa. I appeal to the hon the Minister not to keep silent on this matter any longer.

I should like to say something about private schools very briefly because I should like the hon the Minister to give his attention to it. There are some 160 000 pupils in private schools in South Africa. They make up 2,6% of all pupils and 7,5% of the White pupils in our country. Private schools perform very valuable work in the education of the youth of our country and can form the vanguard in the process of making multiracial education a reality in South Africa. They can act as pioneers in this very important and sensitive field. I want to appeal to the hon the Minister to announce a policy for private schools which will provide, inter alia, for acceptance of the fact that private schools render meaningful and valuable service to our society and for the definite acceptance of them by the Government; secondly, the acceptance of the principle of the autonomy of private schools; thirdly, government aid by way of subsidy based on pupil enrolment; and fourthly, the acceptance of the right of private schools to enrol scholars of all race groups. I should very much like to request the hon the Minister to make an announcement about this very important matter during the course of the discussion of his Vote.

There is also a third matter, and that deals with the expenditure on technological research and development in South Africa by the Government. I want to suggest that for a developing country such as South Africa, a country which is being given the opportunity to take the lead in Africa, it is altogether inadequate. In South Africa it is less than 0,7% of our GDP. When one compares this figure with those of other developed countries in the Western World, as well as developing countries, one sees that in the case of the other countries approximately three times as much of their GDP is spent on technological research and development. When one looks at the growth in real terms of this expenditure in South Africa since 1970 one finds that it is on average a bare 5% per annum. I think all hon members will agree with me that that is not sufficient. There is of course also the problem concerning the private sector in South Africa. In Western countries, for example in America, the private sector spends an enormous amount of money on research in this field. In South Africa the private sector prefers to import people with the necessary knowledge or even to buy the knowledge. In South Africa the private sector spends only about one third of the national research budget on technology. I appeal to the hon the Minister to look into this matter and to determine whether it will not be possible for us to increase that expenditure significantly.

There is also a fourth matter—a somewhat sensitive one—which I should also like to raise with the hon the Minister, and this relates to violence on television and in video films shown on television. In a recent HSRC inquiry it was found that South African pupils spend virtually the same amount of time watching television as on their school benches. A report appeared in The Star in connection with these findings and I should like to make three short quotes therefrom. It was found in America “that there should be little wonder when violent deaths through suicide, homicide and accidents reach epidemic proportion among our children, American researchers have concluded“. One gains the impression that the same tendency is now starting to take root in South Africa and that it is even on the increase. The following is a finding of the HSRC:

In that respect they very much resemble the NP and the Government of South Africa.

A Johannesburg child psychologist said the following:

*Mr Chairman, I think we will all agree that television encourages aggression and violence among young children. I do not want to advocate censorship at this stage because I am against censorship in principle. I do, however, believe that the Government should investigate the possibility of taking effective steps and exercising control over television and videos as far as young children are concerned. In one way or another a system must be designed to prevent young children spending too much time in front of television sets and being exposed to films that force brutality and violence on them.

The final point which I should like to raise is the following: Can the hon the Minister inform us what the near future holds for White education? When I say that I am talking of our own education, the own affairs of Whites. When is the control of White education going to be transferred from the provinces to the White Chamber and the White Ministers’ Council? When will a regional base for education in South Africa be introduced? I think there is a great deal of uncertainty in the country because the Government has not yet given a clear answer on the transfer of education from the provinces to the White Chamber of Parliament. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Bryanston challenged the Government in respect of its attitude towards the AV, and in addition he dragged in an unpleasant accusation of blatant and unscrupulous action by the Broederbond.

I want to be very fair to the hon member and give him a year until the next discussion of this Vote to bring proof of instances where the Broederbond has acted blatantly and unscrupulously.

The NP has ruthlessly exploited the Afrikaans cultural organizations.

The promotion and expansion of culture in its widest and broadest diversity is one of the most important functions of the Department of National Education.

Does it include politics?

Mr Chairman, I sometimes wonder how untenable the position would be if all the cockroaches in a house were in a position to make themselves heard.

Mr Chairman, on a point of order: Do you think that in his reference to cockroaches, the hon member was referring to hon members of this Committee? [Interjections.]

Order! Will the hon member for Kimberley North indicate whether or not he was referring to hon members of this Committee?

No, Mr Chairman, I was not referring to hon members of this Committee.

Order! The hon member may proceed.

It is very important to note that the Department itself does not initiate and execute the programmes for the promotion of cultural life, but that by way of subsidization and guidance local voluntary organizations are enabled to undertake cultural promotion in accordance with the needs of their own communities. In the light of what I have just said I should, firstly, like to refer to the regional councils for cultural affairs which were established by the legislation of 1983, Act No 35 of 1983, which came into operation on 1 April 1984. The aim of the legislation is to decentralize the rendering of advice in regard to the promotion of culture which was previously the responsibility of the National Cultural Council, and to channel it to the various regions in the country. This Act provides for the appointment of councils for cultural affairs at all the regional offices of the Department, of which there are eight with subsidiary offices in Durban, Pietersburg, Nelspruit, East London, Vredendal and Oudtshoorn. Right at the outset of my argument I want to ask in all seriousness that regional councils also be established at the subsidiary offices to take the principle of decentralization even further. I do not know whether the method of establishing the councils and the compilation of the functions with which they will be charged has already been finalized. In all humility I do not intend making suggestions—after all who am I to prescribe how such a vital task should be tackled—but I should like to air some thoughts on the composition of the councils and the functions they can fulfil. As far as the composition is concerned I suggest that in the main town or city where the office is situated five or more members, but not more than eight, should be nominated. Secondly, one or two additional members should be appointed for every other big town or city or centre in the region. The regional council so constituted will then appoint subcommittees comprising a member of the council as chairman and one or two representatives of each town or community surrounding the big city or centre which is not the seat of the office. The council will also establish subcommittees that will consist of people with a particular interest in specific fields, for example subcommittees for stage and drama, singing and choral work, the preservation of historical monuments and the conservation of the environment, provided that on all subcommittees a member of the council shall act as chairman. A subcommittee could even be established to serve the interests of the English-speaking section of the community.

Those then are some thoughts on the composition of these councils. I should now like to formulate some ideas on the functions and tasks of these regional councils.

As I see it, the first task that such a council will undertake will be to introduce and keep a register of all voluntary organizations which are active in the cultural field in the region concerned. Secondly, it must introduce and keep a register of persons who are able and prepared to give lectures, demonstrations, speeches, talks, etc. There is an urgent need, especially in smaller communities, for them to have access to a source from which they can choose people who can hold lectures and talks and make speeches for them. This register will then be available at the regional council. Thirdly, the regional council will be responsible for the introduction and keeping of a talent register of singers, performers, ventriloquists, etc. Fourthly, they will introduce and keep a register of suitable venues in each community. One of the biggest problems in the practising of cultural activities by a community is the lack of venues. The reading circle does not know where to meet, the drama club does not know where to meet, the art needlework group does not know where to meet and the flower arranging group does not know where to meet. In this regard I think in particular of the utilization of our school buildings. It is very interesting that the Indian education authorities have now introduced a system whereby schools are utilized as community education centres. These buildings cost millions of rand but are utilized for only 1 400 to 1 500 hours per year. I am of the opinion that those buildings can be used for the kind of activity to which I have referred.

A further function of the council will be the organizing of exhibitions and performances in co-operation with local committees. It will also undertake the organising of regional festivals. In this regard I think, for example, of song festivals and school festivals. It will also in all instances act in an advisory capacity with regard to the establishing of cultural organizations in communities where such a need may exist. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Kimberley North will excuse me if I do not pursue the subject which he dealt with, although I do not find much fault with the thoughts which he expressed. I should like to come back to what the hon member for Gezina said.

The hon member for Gezina apparently has an obsession to cross swords with me politically. I want to refer to what he said because the hon member will not learn that he always comes off second best, as happened again yesterday. He put his foot in it properly yesterday when he made the positive assertion that Prof Carel Boshoff would not have been a controversial figure had he not resigned from the NP but had remained a member of the NP. I want to ask the hon member and also the hon the Minister who also called for Prof Boshoff’s resignation, specifically whether in the light of this assertion it therefore means that every officer of the Voortrekker movement, every parent who is a member of the Heemraad and every child who is a member of the movement who has resigned from the NP, are also controversial figures and should resign from the Voortrekker movement? Must every officer who no longer is a member of the NP therefore also resign his membership of the Voortrekker movement? If that is not necessary the argument advanced in this regard and the demand being made are not consistent with each other.

May I put a question to the hon member?

No, I do not have time now. [Interjections.] I have only two minutes, man.

The hon member for Gezina also did not grasp what it was all about. The newspaper Die Transvaler stated that Prof Carel Boshoff had become a controversial figure, and requested him to resign because he had become involved in political and cultural activities about which clear differences of opinion within the Afrikaner community existed. It was on that account that I said that it was nothing new in the Voortrekker movement. The first head of the Voortrekker movement was an active politician, a member of the House of Assembly, a member of the old National Party. After fusion he became leader of the purified National Party of the Free State. He was actively involved in politics.

But he was a Nationalist.

I want to tell the hon member who shouted “but he was Nationalist” that the National Party of Gen Hertzog was the party that formed a coalition with the South African Party of Gen Smuts. It was that National Party that fused. Dr Malan, Dr Van der Merwe and others formed the coalition initially but when fusion took place they did not follow their leader and the National Party in that fusion but broke away and formed their own party, namely the purified National Party. That is the history of fusion, and if hon members are unable to understand that they are welcome to come to me for lessons about it.

That is what it is all about, and not about the fact that the one resigned from the NP and the other not. The one resigned from the NP and the other one left the fused NP and joined a new party.

My time is very limited but I nevertheless want to ask the hon the Minister if he will agree with me that men and women teachers are not supposed to take part in active politics. Will the hon the Minister acknowledge that that is the case? Or do teachers have a free hand to participate? I had extensive experience, when I was still in the NP, of teachers who served on the executives of NP branches. Nowadays, however, there is a big question mark over the whole question of the teacher and party politics. If it is so that a teacher is expected not to participate actively in party politics or to serve on the executive committees of parties, I want to ask if it is fair for a member of the House of Assembly to write secret letters to teachers at schools and use them secretly to gather information for him about the political views of teachers on the staff of their schools? For what reason is this being done? Listen to the following letter:

Vriendelike groete.

Dr M H VELDMAN, LV.

I have with me the list which was attached and which those teachers had to complete secretly about the political views of their fellow staff members.

Read it.

The headings at the top of the form are: School—Name—Adress—Telephone Number—NP, CP, other. Is that fair, is that just? While teachers are expected not to participate actively in politics and not to serve on the executive bodies of political parties, they are being used to reveal their colleagues’ political convictions secretly to a member of the House of Assembly, who is apparently so afraid of losing his seat in an eventual general election that he now seeks to act against teachers who do not share his convictions. I trust the hon the Minister will make a full statement in this regard. Seeing that he is inclined to talk about certain things at length he should spell out in detail what his standpoint is in regard to this matter.

The NP has always been like that. It is nothing new.

We have also today reached the parting of the ways as far as the Department of National Education as it is currently composed is concerned. The hon the Minister of Internal Affairs made an announcement on Friday during the discussion of the Commission for Administration Vote in regard to the situation in terms of the new dispensation. Although it was relevant there I think it is also relevant to this Vote. In this situation it is now being said that one’s own affairs will be one administration under an administrative head and that he will have the same status as a departmental head, in other words as a Director General. White own affairs will therefore be reduced to a single small department in the whole Government set-up. Within that set-up room is now going to be made for education, for health and welfare and all the other compartments that are going to be subdepartments of the whole set-up. This means that education, which is today a fully-fledged White Department of National Education, will be reduced to a small subdepartment within the Government administration in the new dispensation and that it is going to be deprived of many of its functions. Since education has been highlighted as one of the own affairs by means of which the self-determination of Whites can be realized and preserved, I want to ask what will happen now to self-determination in education which is being reduced to a subdepartment within a department, whereas one has the situation today that the Department of National Education is a huge, autonomous White department which is responsible for all education for Whites? That department and its self-determination is being reduced to a small subdepartment, to nothing. Education is now being fragmented. At the moment we have the Department of National Education, and subservient to it the provincial education departments. We will now be getting a further little department in between that will deal with own affairs in this regard. I should now like to ask the hon the Minister whether this small department for own affairs will in due course claim the provincial education departments in its own interests, and whether this is the way the provinces are going to be phased out.

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Koedoespoort made mention of so-called secret meetings that were being held. Look who is talking! [Interjections.] The hon member specifically referred to secret meetings, and I can recall more than one occasion when it leaked out that hon members in that party had arranged similar gatherings for teachers and/or clergymen.

Ask Louis Nel.

That is not the point I am making. I am merely saying: “Look who is talking!”

I want to refer now to the hon member for Koedoespoort’s remarks regarding the Voortrekker movement and the connection with Dr N J van der Merwe. I know that this connection with Dr N J van der Merwe comes from Prof Carel Boshoff himself.

I did not say that. [Interjections.]

I think we should rather leave Dr van der Merwe at that. [Interjections.] He was a respected leader of his people, leader of this party, etc.

I would rather now evaluate the person in question, namely Prof Carel Boshoff. [Interjections.] I want to put it categorically that the political affiliation of a Voortrekker officer should not be questioned. That is, however, not the point at issue here. The case of Prof Carel Boshoff is very controversial as a result of his own doings and as a result of the fact that he is establishing an organization which is aimed at dividing the Afrikaner in his cultural life. He sent out selective invitations only to people who are supporters of specific political schools of thought in Afrikaner ranks.

But you should be an authority.

I do not know what the hon member is talking about now. In other words, Prof Boshoff deliberately extended invitations in an attempt to establish an organization which is aimed at nothing less than to divide the Afrikaner in his cultural life. That makes him controversial. [Interjections.] Since the hon member for Koedoespoort is now reacting in that way...

Mr Chairman, may I ask the hon member a question?

No, I unfortunately do not have time now. Since the hon member for Koedoespoort is now reacting in that way I want to say the following about this movement that was established during the past weekend. An important question that has to be answered here...

Order! I want to ask hon members not to converse so loudly.

The question that has to be answered here in the Committee is how the Conservative Party sees the Afrikanervolkswag. We have not yet received an answer to that. The CP must tell us what its interests are with regard to that organization. Ostensibly, the reaction to date shows only one thing clearly, namely the self-interest of the CP in this organization.

The Conservative Party also sees the Afrikanervolkswag as a counter to other Afrikaner cultural organizations in particular.

Name them.

The Rapportryers, FAK, volkspele etc. [Interjections.]

The Afrikanervolkswag aims to bring about division in the Afrikaner cultural life as a counter to other Afrikaner cultural organizations and in doing so by implication to get at the National Party. That is definitely the object. The object can also be put differently. If it is not the object to achieve what I have just indicated, why then have invitations not been extended to representatives or supporters of all political parties to involve Afrikaners? The object could then be brought home that the Afrikanervolkswag wants to bring peace in Afrikaner cultural ranks. That is, however, not the object.

I want to refer now to another subject, one to which the hon member for Stellenbosch also referred yesterday, namely the position of our universities as part of the total education family. In pursuance of previous representations regarding salaries that have already been made here, it is important that we also put a specific standpoint in favour of university staff, teaching and otherwise but particularly teaching, as part of the total education family. This is a fact from which one cannot escape. There is considerable proof and there are many examples one can use to show that there is a backlog today in respect of the salary position of the teaching staff at universities.

I want to associate myself with other pleas in this regard that the position of these persons should be viewed favourably. It has been stated repeatedly in the past—this dates back to the Van Wyk-De Vries report of 1974—that in the broad context of the education family the university should be looked at as the zenith of the pyramid. In that respect a plea can justly be made for the position of university teaching staff.

I want to add specifically, in pursuance of what the hon member for Stellenbosch said yesterday, that universities should at the same time be called upon to look at the position within their own ranks. I am referring specifically now to rationalization at our universities. It is clear from discussions with persons on university staffs that teaching staff are sometimes utilized unproductively. It is unfortunately the case that faculties are being established at our universities which cannot be justified by the student enrolment in the study fields or disciplines concerned. I know that certain universities have already been searching their own hearts in relation to this problem and have in fact started with rationalization within their own ranks. I want to make the plea that as far as productivity and the best utilization of manpower are concerned an unnecessary wastage of good manpower in this situation cannot be afforded. It is therefore important that while we advocate better salary adjustments at universities, universities should also take into account their own positions in regard to productivity.

It is frequently found today that there are institutes at different universities which deal with the same subjects. Excessive duplication is caused in this way and research on more or less the same subjects is done at a variety of universities. We just cannot afford this duplication in terms of numbers, people and manpower. It is important that we concentrate on the availability of manpower and the best utilization thereof when study and research are undertaken in respect of specific subjects. We should rather attempt to rationalize among universities so that university A for example will concentrate on one aspect and university B on another. In this respect I want to appeal to the CUH and the UAC to investigate this matter within their own ranks and to look at the best utilization of our potential manpower. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, in the first instance I also want to congratulate Dr Meiring on his new post and wish him all the best for the future. Dr Meiring has been known to us for a long time. We are used to the high quality of the service he renders. We are looking forward to receiving it from him again.

†Life is quite interesting. As a politician one battles from time to time to receive publicity for your views on television and radio. As all politicians will tell you, one tries desperately to do this. Only occasionally you are successful, especially if you are in a third opposition minority party such as I am, namely the NRP. However, yesterday was the only time I have received publicity for a non-statement. This non-statement referred to the fact that the NRP did not comment on the establishment of the Afrikanervolkswag and their recent conference. Nevertheless, we reserved our statements until today as yesterday was the prime day for head-hunting.

The NRP’s attitude has always been that under a democratic constitution, which South Africa has, it is the right of any organization and any group of people to establish political parties with a particular doctrine. It is also their constitutional and democratic right to establish cultural organizations, provided that those organizations are not abused, do not break the law and do not propagate a policy which will be offensive to a large sector of the population. Therefore, as far as the establishment of the CP, HNP and AWB is concerned, we maintain that it is their constitutional right to do so. However, it is the abuse of constitutional rights and the misleading of people to which we object. If an organization or political party says that it is establishing a cultural organization, then it should be seen to be establishing a cultural organization and not a front for political activities. What is the antidote to this? The hon member for Bryanston and other hon members appealed to the hon the Minister and the Government to make highhanded statements about how they would curtail the activities of those parties which participated in the congress of the Afrikanervolkswag on Saturday.

If they propagate violence.

If they propagate or perceive violence or messages of violence.

We believe that when they act within the law and state their policies as they did, the best antidote to that type of propaganda is to give their message maximum exposure. I would like to pay particular tribute to the South African television services for allowing us to see what happened behind closed doors.

Open doors.

I thought that those people could speak by invitation only. [Interjections.] It is absolutely essential that there should be maximum exposure for these people’s views. I want to tell hon members of the CP that since that exposure they have lost the little bit of support which they had in Natal and I will tell the hon members why. They admit that they have lost what little support they had. It was not only racism which was propagated there, but also a new phase of fascism. It was seen there and every decent and respectful South African citizen will turn his back actively against those who propagate a form of fascism. We would like to pass this message on to those people who are as concerned as we are that the best antidote for this type of propaganda is in fact maximum exposure. We should not be afraid for the public to see what happens there because then they can judge for themselves what is in the best interests of South Africa. We support the hon member for Bryanston fully and we also want to appeal to the Government that, should there be any attempts to distort democracy by abuse or by advocating violence, no matter how cloaked in cultural activity, it should act in the interests of all citizens.

That is as far as we would like to go. We look forward with great interest to see whether the front candidate of the Conservative Party in the municipal election in the Durban Point ward makes any headway tomorrow at all. I think the hon member for Rissik will then see what damage they have done to themselves with this propaganda. [Interjections.]

I want to refer very briefly to a matter raised by the hon member for Pinetown. I made the statement here that free compulsory education, as is currently the practice in White education, namely 10 years formal schooling up to Std 8 or to the age of 16 years, was not acceptable to either the Buthelezi Commission or the people of kwaZulu. The hon member tried to give us the impression that my statement was incorrect and he then quoted from I think the Buthelezi report on education, a specialist report, to the effect that they did accept “voetstoots” free and compulsory education such as is practiced in the White community at the moment. That, of course, is not correct.

What was the recommendation?

I will read it to you. The hon member quoted part of the Buthelezi Commission’s recommendations, but he refused to give me the details of his reference.

I did give a reference.

I did not hear that. My apologies to the hon member if he did but I asked him specifically to give detailed references. What the hon member did not say was that the Zulu people and the Buthelezi Commission did not accept “voetstoots” the idea of transferring the White system of compulsory education as a solution in kwaZulu.

What about the De Lange Commission?

We are not talking about the De Lange Commission now. [Interjections.] I am referring to the hon member’s reaction to my statement. What the hon member did was to read out two of the recommendations but he did not read the qualifications to those recommendations. I refer the hon member to volume 2 of the Buthelezi Commission’s report. On page 257, under the heading “The requirements for stability and development in kwaZulu and Natal” the Commission says inter alia the following:

1. (4) The provision of compulsory basic schooling of at least seven years’ duration.

This the hon member mentioned. Paragraph five states:

1. (5) Three years of compulsory basic post-school education as a goal (see recommendation 27).

The hon member did not read this last part, namely “see recommendation 27.” I am doing this merely to straighten the record. The part which the hon member did not read appears on page 259. It reads as follows:

1. (7) A system of compulsory fully State-subsidized basic schooling of at least seven years’ duration should be instituted. This should be followed by five years of post-basic schooling, subsidized on a decreasing sliding scale with increasing parental contributions. Large scale State bursary provision for pupils of merit should supplement parental contributions. (This differs from recommendation No 5 as present financial constraints make that philosophical ideal impossible to implement for all people.)

I hope the hon member will take note of the fact that what we were saying is that in our appeals for improved education we must avoid the trap of saying that the system which is applicable to the White community should be transferred to other communities and that that will provide them with improved education. We do not believe that it will.

That is generally accepted.

Good, then we agree on that particular point.

The third aspect with which I would like to deal today is an appeal to the hon the Minister to establish an ad hoc committee under the Committee of Heads of Education to do a full investigation into the training, application and work schedule of our vocational guidance teachers in the White schools. Possibly other departments will take a lead from this. I believe there is an inadequate supply of properly trained vocational guidance teachers in our schools which in turn has very serious repercussions on students who have to choose from a multiplicity of careers today in a highly complex technological society. The requirements for a counselling educationist is in fact that he should be qualified as a psychologist, which is a six year course, and also that he should be qualified as a teacher. However, for a vocational guidance teacher, a prerequisite is full education and training as a teacher as well as supplementary training as vocational guidance teacher. As a consequence there is today a considerable shortage of adequately trained vocational guidance teachers. The hon the Minister and hon members will agree that one of the most important functions of our schools today is to have people prepared for tertiary education and to bring about job preparedness. That is the most important function. In that there is a vital golden link, namely to assist people to go into the right vocation. The opportunity for trial and error today is not there. One has to make the correct choice right at the beginning. I appeal to the hon the Minister to allow the maximum investigation into this matter. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I listened with interest to the hon member for Durban North. I was particularly interested in his viewpoints regarding the problems in Afrikaner ranks. What worries me tremendously is the distorted image of the Afrikaner in South Africa which was transmitted to the world over the past weekend. I will be sincerely grateful if this distorted image of the Afrikaner can be lived down by people in this country.

As happens in Afrikaans drama, I want to bring about dramatic variation and refer to a very friendly subject which can be in the interests of and a help to all hon members.

The hon the Prime Minister announced recently that he had appointed a committee under the chairmanship of the Vice State President to investigate research facilities for members of Parliament. This drew my attention to one of the oldest cultural institutions in our country, namely the South African Library, which is situated in a very elegant building just on the other side of the avenue, in the Company Gardens.

I think it would serve a good cause to draw the attention of the Committee to this institution which is really a historical and very important institution in South Africa. This library was established in 1818 in terms of a proclamation of Lord Charles Somerset. The library was financed by a tax which was levied at that time on wine production.

It seems almost as if the old Dutch song of that time rings true. It goes:

A library is not something which can be established and which is then finished and can be left as it is. It is interesting to note that this library was built on the basis of a donation made by an official of the Dutch East India Company, Joachem van Dessen. He came to South Africa in 1727, and in 1761 he bequeathed his collection of 4 000 books to the South African nation. However, it was a long time before there was a library. The collection was maintained by the Groote Kerk, which also purchased additional books. When the South African Library was established in 1818, this formed the nucleus of that library.

In this way many wonderful donations were made to this library over the years. There was for instance the contribution of Sir George Grey who had made a fantastic collection of books and documents from all over the world. There was also the well-known collection of Onse Jan Hofmeyr and that of Charles Fairbridge, for whose collection a special extension was added to the library.

Nowadays, however, large private donations are no longer made to libraries. It must be remembered that in 1954 the Cape Town City Council took over the library function of the city. Since then the South African Library has functioned with the State Library in Pretoria as a fully-fledged national library for the Republic. The one in Cape Town is the national reference and preservation library and the State Library in Pretoria is the national lending library.

The South African Library in Cape Town today plays a dynamic role in the area of preservation and offers in its reference section, but also throughout the world, information from its collections on a wide spectrum of subjects. Important bibliographical sources are compiled, there are active publication programmes, and there is active participation in the recently constituted South African Library and Information network. In this regard it renders assistance to the National Advisory Council.

It is also necessary for us to look at the problems of this library. I want to refer to three problems. The library is housed in a beautiful building, but the building is 125 years old and is hopelessly inadequate to meet present-day requirements. In the second instance I fear that it does not have enough money and, even as far as salaries go, it cannot hold a candle to the statutory and university libraries.

A third problem is that donations to libraries in South African cannot be deducted from tax as is the case in overseas countries.

A fourth problem is that a great many books, magazines and newspapers in the library are gradually deteriorating because of air pollution and the fluctuation in humidity and temperature. This process can only be halted if considerable expense is incurred on modern air conditioning equipment.

All these problems have in the past on more than one occasion been brought to the attention of the hon the Minister by the council of the library which consists of people serving the library in an honorary capacity, who do the work for the love of it. There is great appreciation for the attention which the hon the Minister and his department give to the problems of this library.

Finally, with great respect, I would like to raise a certain matter. I realize that vested interests are involved here and I do not want to offend anybody when I mention this. However, I want to recommend that the committee under the chairmanship of the Vice State President which is investigating research facilities should look carefully at the services of the South African Library as a national library with the supporting function which it has in the South African Library system and which it can possibly also exercise in respect of Parliament and members of Parliament. Members of Parliament, like any member of the public, have access to this library today. I realize that this is a sensitive problem and I do not want to detract from the autonomy of the Parliamentary Library, but I wonder whether an amalgamation of the Parliamentary Library with or an extension thereof to the South African Library would not make a very important contribution towards eliminating the duplication and overlapping which I believe exists between these two libraries. Both of these libraries are copyright libraries. This means that copies of all books, magazines and newspapers published in this country have to be supplied to these two libraries. They are also supplied to three other libraries in the country. The one falls under the Department of National Education and that is why I want to refer to this matter today. The other library falls under Parliament. Both are experiencing exactly the same problems as regards money, space and staff.

Some of us have had the privilege of visiting Washington and the Library of Congress there. This is a wonderful library which serves Congressmen and at the same time provides the public with the best possible research facilities. With the new dispensation and changes which will take place, we in South Africa now have a golden opportunity for rationalization by means of amalgamation and the establishment of one big library without equal in the Western parliamentary system.

I am a person who is very fond of tradition. We heard recently in the Assembly of the restoration that will be done to buildings. In no way do I want to offend against the tradition of the Parliamentary Library or the South African Library. I merely mention this idea in the interests of hon members. These suggestions for rationalization will have to enjoy the attention of the National Advisory Council on Library and Information Affairs. This is a very important institution which the hon the Minister established to advise him on library and information matters. The main task of this council is to ensure that information in its totality will be available in all areas of library affairs in the most effective way.

Mr Chairman, I listened with great attention to the speech of the hon member for Paarl. I associate myself with his call for more funds for the South African Library. Unfortunately I do not have the time to react in detail to what he referred to. However, I do want to add that it would be a big mistake if the autonomy of Parliament—which includes the autonomy of the Parliamentary Library—were to be relinquished.

I also want to refer—in pursuance of the hon the Minister’s speech—to what happened in Pretoria over the past weekend. I certainly do not do so—as one might be tempted to do—with a feeling of “Schadenfreude”. It must be made clear that there was a time when the NP was not prepared to separate Afrikanerhood from loyalty to the NP. People like myself and others who were on the other side definitely had to bear the brunt of this. That fact cannot be denied. From the nature of things it is however not necessary to be bitter about it. Who are the people who were in the bosom of the NP at that time? They are the people who took part in the founding of the new cultural organization on Friday evening. It is therefore certainly not surprising that such a situation developed and that there has been that type of reaction from NP quarters. This happened not only in respect of cultural bodies but in respect of scientific bodies too. For example, hon members know very well how the racial policy of the NP was enforced in respect of membership of scientific associations. It is very regrettable that such a situation developed. Party political interference of whatever nature must be kept out of Afrikaner cultural organizations. In this respect I refer to the FAK, the Akademie vir Wetenskap en Kuns, the Afrikaanse Handelsinstituut, the ATKV, the Voortrekker movement and similar organizations. I want to appeal to all people who want to be worthy of the name Afrikaner to refrain from party political interference of whatever nature in Afrikaner cultural bodies. The concept of Afrikaner goes much further than just political parties.

This concept will remain in spite of the comings and goings of political parties. It is the existence and culture of the Afrikaner which comes into play here.

I do not want to comment on organizations such as the AB, the Ruiterwag and the Rapportryers. The measure to which they are or were cultural organizations I leave to people to judge for themselves.

I believe that every responsible Afrikaner who loves this country and all its people will firmly and distastefully reject the spirit which prevailed at the founding of the Afrikanervolkswag on Friday evening. A very clearly discernible spirit was evident at that founding. In referring to this, I am not referring to individuals but to the general spirit that obviously prevailed there. I want to join the hon member for Durban North in saying that hon members of the Conservative Party did themselves untold harm because of the type of company they kept there.

Does it worry you?

No, I am definitely not worried about it.

Then leave us alone. You and Gerrit work well together.

I am not interested in reacting to that kind of interjection. The hon the Minister of National Education knows where I stand in the party political sphere. He knows that we on this side of the House, and I personally, have disagreed with the policy of the Government for many years. So the hon member for Rissik does not have to try to embarrass me or the hon the Minister by treating us in the same way.

He is unable to embarrass anybody but himself.

Yes, that is so.

As far as this matter is concerned, we do not have to overreact. I sound this warning especially to the Press and other Afrikaners and more particularly the National Party. I do not believe that there is the slightest possibility that these rightist groups will ever govern this country. I therefore believe that there is no reason for anybody to be fearful of what happened on Friday evening. Only a minority of responsible and thinking Afrikaners will support the spirit that prevailed there. It is very clear on the basis not only of what happened on Friday evening but also because of what has happened previously that there is an element in that movement and among our Afrikaners which can be regarded as belonging to the lunatic fringe of our society. Those people must be seen and treated in that light.

Mr Chairman, I have listened attentively to certain speakers. The hon member for Durban North, for example, pleaded for “maximum exposure”. I want to agree with him it is in the interests of the community if what is said and how it is said is seen. However, I am not in favour of selective exposure, selective in the sense that there is a still shot of someone who moved a motion—no less a person than the former Rector of the University of Pretoria—while the focus remains for some time on an AWB-badge.

I am referring to selective exposure because I have personal experience of it. After 10 October last year I was offered the opportunity of making a tape for television. I wanted to know how much time I had at my disposal. The reply was that I had unlimited time. Of the tape of 13 minutes, only 3 minutes 40 seconds were eventually shown. I was alone on the one side against four people on the other side. That is selective exposure.

If there has to be revelation or exposure, what is sometimes said in the House should also be shown. Let the hon the Prime Minister also be shown in cases such as the one in Waterkloof in which he referred to a man as having the face of an orang-outang. I wonder how that would have gone down on television.

Oh, shame!

These are facts. What is said about me across the floor of the House, namely that I am a jackal and a two-faced jackal, should also be shown on television. I wonder how that would go down on television. I can also refer to many other examples. Let us also hear and see it when the hon the Prime Minister refers to me as an outrageous pedlar and let us then see how that goes down with the viewing public.

I want now to refer to the hon the Minister’s remark yesterday that I was a political chameleon. This does not befit the image he has had in the Afrikaner community up to the present. It was a deliberate and humiliating remark. I want to leave it at that. I think he can improve on that. However, the hon the Minister is the last one to talk about chameleons. Listen to this statement of his and compare it with his present standpoint. I am referring to what he said a few years ago, but it is some time now since he made his volte face. I quote:

The hon the Minister should look at what he himself said so that he can decide whether he has not become a political whirligig.

Much has been said about and derogatory references made to a gathering in which I took part. I want to say openly this afternoon that I am not in the least sorry about the contribution I made on that occasion. With that I am of course saying emphatically that I do not support every standpoint which was adopted there. [Interjections.] Do hon members on that side agree with what the hon the Prime Minister said about me, namely that I was a two-faced jackal and that I had a face like an orang-outang? [Interjections.] Then I leave it at that. If I did not exercise the right to disagree with what he said in my presence, I would be spineless.

I say it is important.

The hon member for Winburg is not under discussion now.

As far as this matter is concerned, I want to make a few further remarks. My party and I welcome, firstly, the revival in Afrikaner national and cultural awareness. This revival is necessary. Secondly, it is very clear that a large section of our people feel threatened in respect of their freedom and self-determination. That threat exists not only in the political field but is also evident in the social and other cultural fields. Thirdly, we recognize the right of our compatriots to form any cultural organization by means of which they seek to promote the welfare of our people in an honourable way. They have that right and nobody can deny them that. In addition, we deplore any high-handedness on the part of persons or bodies who would deny or seek to deny a group of people that right.

Further more we see the danger that cultural life can be attenuated to a narrow party political domination. I said that and was applauded for saying it.

Furthermore, we reject politics that endanger cultural practices at other levels. We encounter those politics in the National Party and the Progressive Federal Party.

And the HNP.

And the HNP? We do not agree with everything.

We welcome an organization whose driving force is not hate, a lust for power or unchristian racism—I said this on Friday night, but hon members do not know about it because there was selective exposure of what I said—and which encourages a special love for one’s own nation and one’s own culture. We want to encourage and welcome an organization that has the will to survive in its own free situation and with justice in respect of other cultural groups. If this party fails in its standpoint in this respect, hon members will have the right to reprimand us. We should, however, be allowed the right to declare our own standpoint. We welcome an organization which guards against forces which threaten our nationhood and our own character. Those forces exist. We welcome an organization which seeks to obey the Commandments of God in its own national life and adopt a Christian attitude. If we fall short, we must assist one another. However, we welcome an organization which has these aims. We welcome and promote peace and co-operation among cultural groups which respect each other’s individual natures. No existing organization has the absolute right to exist alone.

But of course. We do not say that.

If the hon member does not want anything to do with that, leave it alone. It has the right to exist. The hon member wants to deny such an organization that right. [Interjections.]

We acknowledge the responsibility also to promote the welfare of other groups in so far as we are able. We also recognize the necessity to fight with every honourable means at our disposal to resist a violation of our freedom and our rights. At the same time we say—I said this on Friday evening too—that the means used in the fight must not undermine the refinement of character, the courtesy and cultural level and Christian decency of and respect for others. Talk about exposure! It was selective exposure which also did not say what our standpoint in this regard was.

Naturally we are worried about the signs of denationalization and the influence of liberalism which betrays a people. Naturally we are also concerned about the abandonment of self-determination and the use of political power to subject our people to multi-racialism. We reject any attempt to introduce a spirit of hostility and militant hatred, violence—call it fascism or national socialism if you wish—into our cultural society. We reject any attempt to give our nation that ideological character. [Interjections.] Allow me to put my own point of view. Hon members must not try to force their own points of view upon me. I am talking about my own point of view and am interpreting my party’s point of view. We do not see our salvation in our obstinate betrayal of our ethnic character or identity, in cultural passivity, in abandoning self-determination or in multiracialism, but neither do we see it in a disregard for Christian culture, justice, mutual respect or responsibility.

Mr Chairman, I should like to address myself to the hon member for Waterberg and I also want to ask him a question. Last Friday evening he talked about traitors and I want to ask him now who the traitors are to whom he referred. On that occasion the hon member alluded to the same thing that he alluded to at Ellis Park, and he must now tell us very clearly who those traitors are.

I will tell you; read the Ten Commandments again.

The hon member continues to make people suspect and to cast aspersions on people with his duplicity. Among other things the hon member attacked the hon the Minister of National Education, and I ask him now please to reply for a change to the questions we put to him instead of continuing with his double talk. The hon member for Turffontein gave that hon member a very good name, namely the hit-and-run member.

I cannot see this cultural organization, the so-called Volkswag, as anything but a politically militant, rightist radical cultural organization. That is all I can call it. [Interjections.] If I am jealous of it, hon members must please pray for me.

Why are you so shaky?

I want to dissociate myself completely from this organization. The hon member for Bryanston and I have very little in common but I agree that all rightminded people must reject that organization.

You are on the same course.

Order! I have called on the hon member Dr Welgemoed to speak and I appeal to hon members to give him the opportunity to make his speech.

Mr Chairman, the chairman of this new organization, Prof Boshoff, talked about three legs. The one leg, the AWB, which was also represented at that meeting, campaigns for civil war and bloodshed, and I now ask: Where are your muzzle-loaders? If this is the stage that these hon members have reached, then must go and dig up their muzzle-loaders. If this is the standpoint which they as a cultural organization wish to adopt, I see only problems for them in future.

Yesterday the hon the Minister talked about the salary structures of university staff, and I agree that differentiation should be applied within the limits of the money allocated to them. I would also like to associate myself with the hon member for Stellenbosch and the hon member for Johannesburg North who felt very strongly that universities should start specializing. I believe that the time for specialization at universities has arrived and that we should take a decision about this as soon as possible. I trust therefore that the CUH will in future give attention to it.

In column 6056 of last year’s Hansard, the hon the Minister said that every university, in accordance with the number of publications by its staff and students which appeared in recognized professional publications in South Africa and abroad, could earn an additional subsidy for research. With this in mind I want to ask the hon the Minister to consider including textbooks written by university staff or students as well, because great benefits can flow from this. We have only a limited number of Afrikaans textbooks, and if we acknowledge them as part of the research package, more people may be prepared to write books of this nature.

I also want to associate myself with the hon member for Bryanston with regard to research and development, but do not want to aim a blow in that direction as he did. I can give the hon member the assurance that I am concerned about research too. His figure of 0,65% in respect of money spent on research is correct. I should also like to ask the hon the Minister to do everything possible in his power to stimulate and extend research in South Africa. However, I believe that the problem does not lie so much with the Government as with private enterprise. During the 1979-80 financial year more than R300 million was spent on research and development. Between 70% and 75% of that amount was financed by the universities on the one hand and Government bodies on the other hand, while the share of the private sector was about 25%. So I appeal to the hon the Minister to make it more attractive for these people, and in this respect I associate myself once again with the hon member for Bryanston. I am not in favour of our importing all our technology because it can cause problems in the long run.

It is a fact that South Africa does not spend enough money on research and development, and I believe that we should aim to bring it closer to 1% in the short term. There are countries which already spend more than 1% on research, for example, South Korea and the Republic of China, and they are already reaping the benefit of it. I believe therefore that if we were to spend more on research we would also benefit from it.

I want to leave the financing of research at that, however, and come back to the human sciences in general over which the hon the Minister has more power than over total research. In this regard I particularly want to point out to the hon the Minister that only 10% of the more than R3 million which was spent on research was used for research into human sciences and 90% of it for research into the natural sciences. I realize that the hon the Minister has already done much in this regard, but I would like to know what else he is going to do to further stimulate research in connection with the human sciences in particular. I would also be pleased if the hon the Minister would convey this thought to the other Ministers who are involved in research and development. In addition, I want to appeal to Black, Coloured and Indian students who are obtaining postgraduate qualifications at universities in growing numbers, to specialize in research and development. Nobody can do better research into the human sciences in respect of a certain group of people than those who belong to that group.

Interesting developments are taking place nowadays, and I want to ask the hon the Minister how he can ensure that the research that is done can be applied in practice. The hon the Minister has appointed committees in the past to do certain work, and I suggest that he should, for example, appoint a committee to determine how the research that is done can be channelled to the place where it can be put to practical use.

We tried it in Randburg but you wrecked it.

Yes, but you did the wrong kind of research.

You said it was reckless and irresponsible.

The hon member did the wrong kind of research; that is his problem. This should then become part of the science policy and development program of the Republic of South Africa. Research in itself serves no purpose if it cannot be applied in practice.

Too little money is spent on research in South Africa, and we cannot therefore do research which will eventually be shelved and gather dust. At this moment there are no fewer than 16 ministries in South Africa which are involved in one way or another with research. I also want to suggest therefore that the Scientific Advisory Council should ensure that there is no duplication, that the money available is used properly and that the result of the research undertaken is applied in practice. The Republic of South Africa already gives preference to the development products of the soil but it will now also have to give precedence to products of the brain. We must not give attention to the one and neglect the other because both these aspects are important for the socio-economic development of the Republic of South Africa.

Mr Chairman, I want to put it to the hon the Minister that the chairman of the NP branch at Stellenbosch said that the apparent refusal by the majority of students of the University of Stellenbosch to admit non-Whites to the residences was a form of racism and that he rejected their standpoint. If the hon the Minister does not refute that statement today I must accept the fact that it is the policy of the NP that university residences must be mixed.

The hon member for Virginia tried here yesterday in a very disappointing manner to intimidate and to blackmail Prof Marius Swart in regard to the possibility that he could become chairman of the FAK. He did so by holding out the threat that should the latter not reject the Afrikanervolkswag as a political organization he would most probably forfeit the opportunity of becoming chairman of the FAK. According to rumours the hon the Prime Minister has instructed the hon member for Virginia, the hon member for Johannesburg West and the hon member Dr Pieterse to undertake a mission throughout the country to ensure that Prof Marius Swart does not become chairman of the FAK.

Do you think we will accomplish that? Do you think it is possible?

It would seem that I am quite correct.

Mr Chairman, I want to address myself to the hon member for Pretoria East and to the hon member for Brits. Earlier this year the hon member for Pretoria East said:

I want to ask the hon the Minister at what stage during the discussion of this Vote we have to approve the budget of the University of Pretoria, and whether it depends on the conduct of Professor Boshoff.

The hon member for Brits said:

The hon member for Brits is a member of the DR Church and I suggest he goes to the governing body of the DR theological faculty and requests them to appoint a commission of inquiry into the activities of Prof Carel Boshoff, and that he should then be suspended as professor of Theological Section B at the University of Pretoria. If that hon member has the courage to do so he should get up and ask for that.

I can tell the hon member for Pretoria East that I have been in contact with the University of Pretoria. [Interjections.] The hon member for Turffontein is an elder in the DR Church and he can ask for such an investigation. If he does not do so I can tell him what he ought to know he is.

That is a good suggestion.

I have been in contact with the University of Pretoria and there is no complaint whatsoever about Prof Boshoff or his activities at the university.

The NP is embarking upon a bigger intimidation campaign in this country than Jan Hofmeyr and all like-minded persons could ever have launched during the thirties and forties. Neither the NP nor anybody else will be able to intimidate any member of the CP or of any other rightist organization to the extent where they will not continue with the struggle which we are waging in South Africa. We submit that part of this southern land belongs to the White man and that we want to govern ourselves there. We will pursue this ideal in spite of all the methods of intimidation with which the hon member for Virginia and this hon Minister occupy themselves.

I also want to ask the hon the Minister what he is going to do about other professors who are actively involved in the NP as chairmen of constituency councils, for example Prof Roelf Botha, in my own constituency, and Dr Pieter Smit. For many years I was a teacher at the University of Pretoria, and from the beginning I was very active in the NP. I was even chairman of a regional executive body and addressed many meetings throughout the country, but there were never any complaints about my activities as a politician. As far as this matter is concerned I can also ask about people such as Prof De Lange, Prof Mouton, Prof Christo Hanekom and Prof Charles Nieuwoudt. The latter two gentlemen, so I am told, were professors and members of the President’s Council simultaneously.

The more the hon the Minister behaves in the manner he has been behaving over the past few days the greater the proof of the bankruptcy of the NP as far as principles and policy are concerned. I want, however, to express my thanks to him for making these mistakes because with each of these mistakes the CP gains more and more ground. [Interjections.]

Order! I called upon the hon member for Rissik to speak and other hon members must please give him an opportunity to put his case.

Mr Chairman, I want to tell these hon members, all English-speakers, the Jews in this country and all those who are anxious because of what they have seen on television, that they should not be worried at all about the influence the CP will exert. They need not be alarmed at the influence we are exerting at present and also not at the influence we will exert when we take over the Government. There is no need for any minority group to be worried that we will make any attempt whatsoever to intimidate any group in respect of its religion or whatever it may be or that we will offend anyone because of what he happens to be. The propaganda of the NP is crasser than anything that Jan Hofmeyr could ever have been capable of in his whole life. I want to put it to the hon the Minister that if anyone ever made a complete turnabout—the hon the Minister is free to grimace; in any event it does not make him more attractive—it is this hon Minister. I want to tell the hon the Minister that although he may have been a professor outside, he is only a sub A pupil in politics and he will never pass.

Is the hon member a professor here?

No, I am only an ordinary man. I am an ordinary, humble Afrikaner, and I am not prepared to put my survival at stake, not even though I have a professor here who, while it suited him to be so, was a conservative. He was chairman of every body of which he was chairman simply because he used to be a so-called conservative. When, however, the moment of crisis for his people dawned he collapsed, just as so many Afrikaner leaders collapsed in the times of crisis of the Afrikaner. I want to put it to the hon the Minister that the fact that he surrendered will be recorded in history. He is the one man in this country who had the opportunity of backing up his people and the Whites. Notwithstanding the fact that he used to hold all those positions, the moment he had to take the responsibility, he did not have the courage or the ability to do so. This political struggle within the ranks of Afrikanerdom has only just begun. On the road ahead we will get our own back on him and on the NP who have capitulated.

Mr Chairman, I really do deplore the personal attack the hon member for Rissik made on the hon the Minister. The hon the Minister is able to hold his own and therefore it is not necessary for me to try to reply to the personal attack the hon member made on the hon the Minister. The hon member made the assertion that the hon the Minister had made a complete turnabout. However, I have known the hon the Minister over quite a number of years and we have worked together very closely. I can tell you that I cannot see at all where the hon member for Rissik gets those ideas of his from.

Do you differ with me?

Of course I differ with the hon member. The only possible basis on which the hon member can found his statement is the distortions of the statements of the hon the Minister which have been taken out of perspective. I want to reject the assertion as being really undignified. The hon member for Rissik also made the assertion that this Government was guilty of intimidation, and he said it in consequence of the insistence of this side of the Committee that people should not misuse their official positions. That is in fact what it is all about. This side of the House is not intimidating anybody in any respect. All we ask is that everyone keep to the written and unwritten rules of the game.

Lay a charge against Prof Boshoff if you have the courage.

We are laying the charge against Prof Boshoff here. We do not want to deprive anybody of the right to occupy, for example, an educational or a theological position and also to take part in politics, because it is possible up to a point to separate those two roles. It is of course sometimes extremely difficult and everybody does not always succeed in doing it. That is precisely our problem with Prof Boshoff. Prof Boshoff is in fact proving to us at the moment that he is misusing cultural organizations for political gain. That is what it is all about.

What cultural organizations do you belong to?

The cultural organizations to which I belong are not at issue now. The hon member is trying to drag a red herring across my path. The point is that Prof Boshoff is misusing culture for political ends. It is for that reason that we say to him: “Man, you are also head of an extremely respected cultural institution of long standing in the form of the Voortrekkers. Withdraw from it because you will not be able to leave a body like that untarnished. You are not able to separate the roles.” We would rather call upon him to step down.

In any case he is also possessed.

I do not want to comment on that kind of remark. The point is, however, that it has been shown clearly over a long period that Prof Boshoff has misused cultural institutions for political ends. The whole essence of the Volkswag is in fact that it is a so-called cultural organization which goes under the cloak of culture but which has only one political aim and that is a purely political one. I want to call a halt in respect of this matter at this point and touch on an entirely non-political subject.

I want in a certain sense to associate myself with the hon member Dr Welgemoed who made a plea for greater emphasis on research in South Africa. I want to make a plea for the human sciences. The human sciences and the natural sciences are frequently placed in contention with one another. Although there is no doubt that the natural sciences are a science the question is frequently asked whether in fact the human sciences are a science and whether they should not be placed more on the level of the arts. One can discuss this at great length, but I just want to say that in my opinion the field of human science is infinitely more complex than the field of natural science. The variables with which a human scientist has to deal when he operates in that field are much more numerous and much more complex than those with which the natural scientist has to deal. The human scientist has up to now relied almost more on intuition, feeling and deduction than on facts and logic for the very reason that the field is so incomprehensible.

In South Africa we have a very unique human science situation since the human science variables in South Africa are unique and are different to those of the rest of the world. One cannot therefore transplant the research that is done elsewhere in the human science field into South Africa with the same ease as one can in the case of the natural sciences. I want therefore to make the plea that thorough attention also be given to the human science field then it comes to stimulating research and training.

Mr Chairman, at this stage I want to refrain from dealing once again in detail with the question of the founding of the Afrikanervolkswag which I examined exhaustively yesterday.

However, in pursuance of the request of the hon member for Bryanston I want to say that it is of course understandable that an organization such as this would be only too grateful to a government that made of it a martyr, something that stood accused or something that had been unjustly treated. One can understand this very well. The hon member for Durban North demonstrated a sound appreciation of the matter when he said—which I think practically all South Africans with sound political judgment are doing this morning—that maximum exposure of the action of these people in the heat and glow of their conviction is the best way to enable them to hang themselves politically and culturally. For that reason one can leave this organization to its own devices with impunity. One can with impunity trust the South African public and in particular the Afrikaans cultural community, to display the insight and the good judgment to condemn this organization in the way it deserves. On the other hand I want to say that the Government has a very good reputation in that it has proved that it knows how to deal with any organization no matter of what population group and no matter on what side of the political spectrum, which by word or deed seeks to encourage violence or race hatred in this country. I am sure that my colleague, the hon the Minister of Law and Order, would know very well how to use the instruments of the law that Parliament has made available to the Government if this organization or any other organization were to break the law in respect of violence or racism.

I want to refer very briefly to the speech of the hon member for Waterberg. After having listened to all the things of which he was not ashamed and all the things for which he stood, I felt that the entire catalogue that he had mentioned was essentially a catalogue of political condemnations and political standpoints. If ever one wanted to know the character and the orientation of this organization in respect of which he was apparently expressing an opinion, we have learnt through the medium of the hon member for Waterberg himself what the essential political motivations and political objections to things that are happening in this country are which form the basis of the founding of this organization.

The hon member also tried to describe me as a chameleon. The hon member did not refer to something—which I did—which he said himself a few days ago in pursuance of the Nkomati Accord. Initially the hon member mentioned the Nkomati Accord with appreciation but changed his tune subsequently in order to conclude an agreement with Mr Japie Marais when he said that it would be a debacle if any further peace treaties were to be concluded with South Africa’s neighbouring countries. Because of me, however, the hon member had to revert to a standpoint which I had adopted at the start of the seventies—I cannot remember the precise date. I make no apologies for it. Other hon members on this and even that side of the Committee and myself have in fact adapted and changed our points of view in respect of specific attitudes in the light of new plans that have been developed and new approaches and clever alternatives for old obsolete ideas that have been thought out. The hon member for Waterberg and his henchmen were with the NP in 1977 when the NP moved away from a policy of separate development for the Coloureds to a policy that cannot be otherwise described than as a policy which had built into it joint responsibility, that is to say joint decision-making and a measure of power sharing in respect of matters of common concern together with self-determination in respect of own affairs. Those hon members had second thoughts subsequently, and they had every right to have second thoughts. However, they had already walked a common path the whole way up to 1982. So I make no apology in that regard. I am not one of those—as is apparently the case in respect of the hon member for Rissik—who had everything revealed to him perfectly at the start of his life and who has never found the need to change his own opinions, to hone them and to adjust them. I admit that I participated in the struggle of my people in trying to find solutions in the course of which we had often to change our point of view. Where initially we condemned co-operation with Africa, we subsequently accepted it for good reasons and because of the realities. Where initially we demanded the incorporation of the Protectorates, subsequently, under the guidance of Dr Verwoerd, we even established new independent states within our own territory. Whereas we initially, in reaction to the Smuts policy, condemned all immigration, we changed and adapted our point of view.

Sir, I am a member of that section of Afrikanerdom that is trying realistically in the light of changed circumstances to make the necessary adjustments and the necessary adaptations which will eventually be in the interests of nationalism, in the interests of the survival of our people. That is what it is all about. It is not a question of an ideological liberalism or an ideological conservatism; in principle, it is all about nationalism. It is all about the interests of one’s people in the light of one’s principles and in the light of the realities with which one has to deal, in these circumstances, and I make no apology for that.

I also noticed quite in passing—perhaps I heard incorrectly—that in reply to an interjection from one of the hon members on this side in regard to what the HNP had apparently done on the founding of the Afrikanervolkswag, the hon member for Water-berg said: “But I do not agree with them”. I do not agree with them but I enter into an election agreement with them in respect of a by-election. That is the sort of political leadership that I find very difficult to understand.

I want to refer briefly to certain questions asked by the hon member for Koedoespoort. I want to make it clear to the hon member for Koedoespoort that I do not agree with the point of view that every person who resigns from the NP, or any party at all, is thereby disqualified to be a leader in the Voortrekkers or whatever other cultural organization it may be. If anybody says this, I disagree with him. However, when a person who holds a sensitive leadership position in a youth movement like the Voortrekkers—I need not repeat the whole matter; the hon member for Helderkruin set it out very well earlier on—becomes involved in such an outspoken, contentious, active and almost militant fashion in public life in contentious questions, he excludes himself by definition in terms of any commonsensical judgment of what is good for a youth organization from being a suitable person to continue to occupy that position of leadership. I believe that in our cultural organizations we must not act heretically towards members of other political parties. For that reason I want to make it very clear that the statement of the hon member for Koedoespoort is one with which I cannot agree, namely to expect a person simply because he has resigned from a particular political party also to have to leave a cultural organization.

In the second place I want to refer to the questions of the hon member for Koedoespoort in regard to participation by teachers in active politics. There are very clear conditions of service in this regard. Every teacher ought to know what the conditions of service are. Those conditions of services, are laid down by the education departments. No teacher is prohibited from participating in politics; he may be a member of a political party, he may even be an executive member of a political party, but he may not distribute any political material or carry on any political activity on the school premises whether in the classroom or otherwise. I am aware of the fact that because of an arrangement made by various school principals, political discussions do in fact take place in the staff room. I think that that is in order provided it is done in the proper way, because these people are all adults. However, the conditions of service prohibit a teacher from carrying on any political activities on the school premises. A teacher is also expected not to be politically active in public; in other words, a teacher appearing actively at a public political meeting as speaker or otherwise would also not be acting correctly.

The hon member for Koedoespoort also referred to the fact that as part of the own affairs administration for Whites, education would be reduced to an unimportant inconsequentiality. However, White education already makes up a third of the totality of the present Department of National Education; actually a quarter. Although it has primarily the important task of White education to fulfil, in the second place the Department of National Education also has the task of the promotion of culture, and in the third place, also the task of the promotion of sport—which is a general affair—and, over the past few years, has in the fourth place been given the responsibility of handling macro-policy planning, the policy planning that is needed for co-ordinated policy implementation in respect of all education departments of all population groups. It will only be that portion, namely White education matters from pre-school to university level which at present falls under the Department of National Education, that will in my opinion be taken up in the new dispensation as the most important component of own affairs administration for Whites. After all, one has to see this matter in its proper perspective. As far as the positon of the provincial education departments in relation to a future department responsible for White education is concerned, this is something which in terms of the clear and openly declared attitude of the governing party is a matter that still has to be negotiated with the provinces themselves and in respect of which negotiations are in fact already proceeding. Obviously the Government will not adopt any standpoint in this regard until such time as it has obtained clarity in regard to those matters together with the various provincial authorities.

I should like to associate myself with the speech made by the hon member Dr Pieterse and express my very great appreciation for what he said in regard to the Suid-Afrikaanse Akademie which is celebrating its 75th anniversary this year. I should also like to convey the Government’s and my hearty congratulations to the Suid-Afrikaanse Akademie and pay tribute to the present chairman and executive and to everyone who has served this asset of our South African scientific and academic sphere, particularly from the Afrikaans point of view, so faithfully over the years. It is a pleasure for me to be able to say that in this festival year the State has undertaken to take responsibility for 85% of the cost of erection of a new building which the Akademie wishes to erect—85% of the total cost which will not exceed R1,7 million. A non-recurring grant of R300 000 which already appears on the Estimates has been made available which will be used on an rand-for-rand basis for the initial planning. Thereafter the annual instalments of the Akademie to defray capital and interest will be subsidized by the State by 85%, more or less on the same basis as is done for universities. I want to wish the Akademie every success with the establishment of this new facility as well, which will no doubt give still further impetus to their activities.

I also want to refer to a matter which was not mentioned by any hon members but which is nevertheless of importance. I am referring here to the work of the National Monuments Council, the old Historical Monuments Commission. I want to refer to the new director, Dr Chris Ludolff, who has been appointed as the first permanent director. He is a former head of the division of museum services of the Cape Provincial Administration, and he has already made spectacular progress in connection with the work of the National Monuments Council. He is the successor to the well-known Dr Douglas Hey, also formerly with the Cape Provincial Administration, who was director for a number of years in a more or less part-time capacity. The department was able to help the council to reorganize fairly extensively and to develop proper administrative, technical and regional components. The council is also planning a national register of all objects and buildings worthy of preservation so that we will know where such buildings are and so that local authorities and developers can be warned timeously should a development place something of that nature in jeopardy. The staff of the NMC has also been increased considerably. I should like to express my very sincere thanks to the members serving on the NMC who do so in their free time, in that, more than most other statutory council members, they also have to do a considerable amount of travelling and pay visits to all parts of the country without receiving any remuneration for so doing. They are really rendering an excellent cultural service to the South African community as a whole. Mr Justice M R de Kock who acts as chairman merits our particular appreciation.

It is sometimes said that we do not spend enough in respect of this matter. The hon member for Parktown said this last year, but I should just like to mention some figures here. In 1980-81 the budget of the NMC was R455 000; the year thereafter, R619 000; the year thereafter, R702 000; then R1 394 000 and this year R1 627 000. In other words, the funds of the NMC have nearly quadrupled over a period of five financial years. This is very clear proof of the high priority which the Government—and I want to say that the personal interest of the hon the Prime Minister lends impetus to this—devotes to the preservation of the cultural treasures of the country.

In the cultural sphere I should also like to refer briefly to the progress being made with the Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal. This is a matter that dates back to the twenties to the late Prof Jan Smith who was appointed as part-time editor of the Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal when a unit was established at the University of Stellenbosch to publish an authoritative dictionary of Afrikaans over the course of years. The staff of the Woordeboek vir die Afrikaanse Taal fall under a controlling body established by statute which includes among others the Rector of the University of Stellenbosch and which is under the chairmanship of the Director-General of National Education. Six volumes of this dictionary have already been published but with the sixth volume we have still only reached the letter K, and what may perhaps be significant is the fact that the last word in the sixth volume is “koliek”. In am very pleased to be able to announce that the seventh volume has now been completed and will be made available shortly when one of the new volumes is handed over officially to the hon the Prime Minister and the State President.

In 1981 I issued instructions that the board of control should give urgent attention to expediting the work in connection with the Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal. Various steps were taken to effect that expedition, and I hope that under the new editor, Mr D C Hauptfleisch, that expedition will be achieved. Definitions of words will henceforth be briefer and less encyclopaedic, which will mean that not so much non-etymological research will need to be done. The screening of words, expressions and alternative forms for inclusion will henceforth be subject to stricter requirements in respect of acceptable usage. The inclusion of technical terms will be restricted, and particular attention will be given to whether they are terms which are also required in the communication between technician and layman. This too will require less technical research and expedite the etymological work. Self-explanatory composites and derivatives will as a rule be included without explanation and purely selectively, whereas these were often re-explained at great length in the past, the so-called “kop-peltekenlemmas”, where the first portion of a composite word is defined once and thereafter variations are added which are self-explanatory, will be used to a greater extent. In this way there has already been a considerable increase in the rate at which these matters are being dealt with. We find for example that in the new Deel VII there are only about 1 300 words dealt with in the first 300 pages, but that almost 1 700 words are dealt with in the last 200 pages. This indicates considerable expedition. I should like to express appreciation to the editing staff and the board of control of the Woordeboek van die Afrikaanse Taal, and express the hope that they will succeed in meeting the expectations of the public and particularly the users of Afrikaans who are to be found among all sections of our population today, by expediting this important work.

I also want to refer in rather more detail to the efforts of the Department to promote the introduction of our culture to countries abroad. I want with great pleasure to record the fact that we have at the moment six permanent cultural officers abroad as against the one we had when I took over this portfolio in 1980, and that we are on the point of appointing cultural officers in three other important Western capitals. I want to express my appreciation for the exchange of postgraduate students, about 15 of whom came here to do research last year under the departmental programme; the exchange of young students and schoolgoing children which is being arranged particularly between West Germany and South Africa; the succession of leading cultural and scientific guests—last year there were 20 of them—visiting South Africa from various countries; and programmes through the medium of which we have enabled South Africans to attend conferences abroad. I want to refer to the programme—humble perhaps, but I think very effective—of lending reasonably meaningful financial support to choirs, orchestral groups and folk-dancing groups on an amateur basis which have already reached a high achievement level and wish to travel abroad. I also want to refer with great appreciation to the share of the Department in the three international competitions last year and at the start of this year that were arranged with the assistance of the cultural programme of the Department. The first was the Roodepoort International Eisteddfod of South Africa, RIESA, which took place last year. It was a resounding success and received considerable television coverage—hon members would all have known about it. It also attracted outstanding artistic groups from abroad to this country. I also want to refer to the second international piano competition and the first international singing competition which was arranged in an excellent and highly professional way by Unisa’s faculty of music in co-operation with the Department, and which really attracted young musicians, young pianists and young singers from abroad of the highest calibre. This was a good opportunity for South African singers and musicians to compete at high level. They also realized that we had a considerable backlog to make up. On the other hand, we also recruited many good ambassadors for our country in the persons of those people who visited us.

I want now to come back in rather more detail to specific remarks made by certain hon members. At the start, the hon member for Bryanston asked how the budget for own affairs would be handled in the future. I want in this respect to refer him to section 84 of the Constitution where it is stated that there will be three components for the accounts of each House in the handling of own affairs: Firstly, an amount prescribed in terms of a formula; secondly, an amount appropriated by way of a general law; and thirdly, amounts which are appropriated that are apparently intended for specific projects subject to certain conditions. Furthermore, provision is made in Schedule 1 of the Constitution that every House can obtain funds from levies for services rendered in respect of its various own affairs matters. Those are the chief sources. The administrative details in regard to how this is to be handled are receiving attention at the moment.

I do not want to lose this opportunity of also referring to a remark at the end of the speech of the hon member for Bryanston when he spoke about the majority of all South Africans in the education profession preferring an integrated education system. I want to state categorically that this sort of approach is rejected in principle by this side of the Committee, by the Government. The Government does not accept South Africa as a large undivided unitary community, and it does not simply count heads in terms of the total community of South Africa, and also not in terms of the entire teaching profession of South Africa. The point of view of this Government is that of the acknowledgement of ethnic diversity, and therefore of the acceptance of various peoples and population groups as the basis upon which political structures have also to be built in this country. Decisions and choices have therefore to be made according to the majorities within each specific group. The choice and the conviction and the wishes of the White population group are and will remain a fact within the realities of the constitutional set-up in South Africa. Simply to walk all over this and say that the majority in South Africa are in favour of an integrated education system simply does not take account—as in the case of so many other aspects of the policy of the Official Opposition—of the position as it is in South Africa in respect of the realities of our community.

I want to refer with appreciation to the contribution of the hon member for Durban North.

†The hon member asked about the validity of the present matriculation and senior certificate examinations. I should like to point out that, as envisaged in the White Paper, we are working on the setting up of a statutory certification council which will take care of the setting of standards and the evaluation of all the different national public examinations. In other words, the council will also more specifically deal with the requirements for a public examination at the end of the school system, not only for entrance towards the tertiary sector, but also as a sufficient basis for entrance to the professional or occupational world. I should also like to refer to the fact that the Committee of University Principals has worked on a study to refine the admission procedures through matriculation for the university system. This matter has not yet been finalized and I have been informed that the Committee of University Principals has requested the Human Sciences Research Council to go into more detail. The matter is very complicated and the efforts that have been made in the past to improve the filters through which students are allowed to move on to the tertiary education system have not always been effective and therefore have to be reassessed very carefully. This is a matter of great importance and high priority and I shall see to it that it is attended to. I am grateful that the hon member brought it to the attention of the Committee and it will receive the necessary ongoing attention so that we can report back in future. The hon member also referred to the importance of modem educational technology, especially television.

The hon member for Alberton also made a very important contribution in connection with television in education.

†The position here is that, at the request of the interim task group which formulated proposals for the Government’s White Paper on the De Lange Report, the HSRC set up two teams which produced in much more detail reports on the introduction and phasing in of computer-assisted education in South Africa and also of the use of television in education. These reports were completed at the end of last year. The report on computers in education has already been released. The different education departments are now studying the implications, especially financially which are quite considerable. We hope to have their feedback in order to formulate Government policy on this matter as soon as possible. I agree with the hon member and the hon member for Alberton that the use of television can really contribute dramatically to enhance education, especially in those sectors of the school system where the teachers are underqualified. I should like to refer to a recent discussion I had with Dr Peet van Zyl, the director of educational television at the SABC. I was really excited by what they are already doing and what they are planning for the future. The SABC has set up a unit to deal with educational television and takes into consideration the different needs of the more advanced social context of the Whites and that of the Black and the Coloured people. They have already, from their own funds, started the planning and the preparation of programmes. They are hoping to get additional financial grants next year. I am sure that we are soon going to see the results of this work, not only in formal school programmes, but also in informal programmes contributing towards adult education, towards improvement of literacy and towards a better understanding of democratic and citizen values, and an assessment of the free market system and things like that. I should like to report, therefore, that a lot of work is being done and I think quite considerable progress has been made.

*I want to thank the hon member for Brentwood very much indeed for his particularly knowledgeable, thorough and sympathetic treatment of the whole question of schools for handicapped children. In order to save time I should for the time being like to leave the other aspect of his speech at that and simply refer to his appeal that special provision be made specifically for the child with learning problems who at the moment is largely accommodated in schools for the physically handicapped. I may mention here that discussions were held during October last year with the chairmen of the controlling bodies and school principals of eleven of the schools involved in regard to the separation of the children with specific learning disabilities from the physically handicapped children. This was followed up by visits to the individual schools and discussions with the full controlling bodies. With one exception all eleven schools proclaimed their willingness to fall in with the proposed new national plan for children with specific learning disabilities in separate schools, and therefore too a national plan for the cerebral palsied. From the nature of things we will have to take account of the phasing out of the type of pupil who has as it were been “wrongly” placed. We do not want to transfer such children to another school because their social adjustment is very delicate. We have therefore to phase out the children, who as it were have been “wrongly” placed, from a specific school, and subsequently that school will then concentrate only on children belonging to a specific problem group. We think that a period of five years will effectively solve the problem. Four additional schools will also become available within that period so that in my opinion the whole matter can be dealt with very well indeed. I want to thank the hon member once again for his contribution.

The hon member Prof Olivier dealt particularly with universities and asked for greater clarity in connection with the application of the university subsidy formula. As hon members have mentioned, we were unfortunately unable this year even as far as the present formula was concerned to allocate to universities the full amount to which they were entitled in terms of the formula. A saving of 2,4% had to be effected, amounting to a total of R10 million on a total budget of about R500 million. I have however received the assurance from my colleague, the hon the Minister of Finance, that he will do his best, as a first priority, to make it available at a later stage in the financial year. I have informed the universities accordingly. In the meantime the universities have had a windfall in the form of an additional amount of R9,6 million out of savings during the past year, which they had not counted on, with a view to affording the improvement of staff positions. The Government has approved of the new refined formula but was not able to implement it this year because it would have meant additional expenditure of about R80 million over and above the amount provided for this year by the old formula. This was impossible under the present financial circumstances. I trust that we will be able to phase in this new formula either partially or completely next year.

The hon member also referred to an important manpower study and, in pursuance thereof, asked whether the Department would not be prepared to make some of these studies that are published by the Directorate: Macro Education Policy of the Department of National Education, under the name SAPSE or SANSO, freely available. Many of those studies are internal studies but, as we deal with the matter and state our policy in that respect, it is our practice to release them as well. It would not be sensible simply to distribute them to everyone, but I want to issue an invitation to all hon members who are interested in receiving these studies that are released, to send their names to the Director General. We will ensure that they receive them regularly, and we could also act as a channel by means of which to do the same thing in connection with HSRC reports in specific categories in which hon members are interested.

I should like to deal with a further matter and that is in pursuance of the hon member for Standerton’s very fine reference to one of the heartache aspects of education namely, as he called them, the Children’s Act schools. These are schools for children declared to be in need of care. He mentioned various problems and referred among other things to the particular demands that are to be made of teachers at these schools. With great gratitude to the Department I want to refer here to an important investigation that was made in regard to these schools on the initiative of our Director General. Dr Meyer felt that the Department of National Education accepted the existence of industrial schools and reformatories as a fact, and that we should look anew at whether they had really been established on an education basis. For that reason an investigation was instituted into the question of schools for child care under the leadership of one of our senior officials, Mr De Jager, presently Chief Director. I should like to mention the most important points dealt with in that enquiry. Unfortunately, I cannot give details of everything that has been done in regard to this completed investigation because I will not have the time. In the first place, attention was given to the present physical position of the schools, their make-up in terms of the courses of study they offer, the premises in which they are located—which are often very old and neglected buildings—their geographical position, co-education and also language differentiation in the schools. Secondly, attention was given to future projected numbers of pupils in the schools for child care. It is an interesting fact that while the numbers are not increasing, the seriousness of the offences on the grounds of which children are referred has increased, and the age of the children has decreased. Both of these factors are most alarming. Attention was given to the viability of the schools in regard to the number of pupils, and it was found that there would be no problems in the immediate future in making full use of the accommodation. Further attention was also given to placing the essence and aims of these schools for child care and reformatories on an education and training oriented basis. The question was again asked whether it was necessary to provide this special education outside of the main stream of the pedagogically neglected child. Once again efforts were made to justify a matter mentioned by one of the hon members here namely that the child in need of care should fall under three departments throughout his whole lifetime. He sometimes falls under the Department of Health and Welfare. Sometimes he falls under the Department of National Education, and sometimes he falls under the Department of Manpower. The hon member for Koedoespoort referred to the problem of aftercare in this connection. This matter has been given further attention, and we are trying to improve interdepartmental co-operation. Attention has also been given to an amendment of the law to normalize the schools, not to regard them as strange schools which one did not actually talk about, and particularly to have another look at the words “industrial school”. The position of non-committed children who could be assisted by these schools but who have not been declared in need of care is also being considered. The quality of the teachers and their training as well as in-service training received particular attention. I consider this to be of fundamental importance. I want to agree with the hon member for Standerton. Education in our country makes very heavy demands on the profession. However, even heavier demands are made on the education profession in respect of children who have been referred by a children’s court for special care, whose home lives have been disrupted, who have perhaps never experienced a normal pattern of family life, and who have possibly already seen the inside of a jail. To deal with these children not only in their classroom but also in the playground, in the hostels and during the holidays, makes very heavy demands on the teachers. I believe that special consideration of their case is advisable on the part of the bodies engaged in advising me in regard to conditions of service. Furthermore, attention was given to the efficient functioning of the principals of these schools and to special training so that these principals would be better equipped for their task.

The extramural education and care of the pedagogically neglected pupil both as regards hostel life and the extracurricular life, received attention. After my visits to the schools I insisted that more attention be given to subject differentiation with a view to vocational needs, because there is not always adequate vocational preparation for the children in training them for a vocation which they can follow once they leave the school. Last but not least, attention was also given to handicapped children, namely children who are therefore not only in need of care but who also have a sensory handicap, physical handicap or mental handicap. Attention was also given to the auxiliary education services and to the medical and nursing services. I want to express my great appreciation to Dr Meyer and his staff—in particular Mr De Jager who worked on this project—for the investigation they made, and particularly for the typically efficient and cogent manner in which the Director General has already put as many wheels as possible in motion in order to implement the proposals.

I have been asked by the Whips to resume my seat, which I shall do. I shall reply to the other hon members later on.

Mr Chairman, I would like to turn the debate to the sport section of the hon the Minister’s portfolio. I am not the first speaker on this section. The hon member for Kuruman had something to say yesterday, but all I can say to that hon member is that when he thinks things are going badly with school sport, we in the PFP think that they are going well, and I assume the position is applicable vice versa as well. Unfortunately there are some things in South Africa where we just have nothing to say to one another.

One of the most serious problems in South African sport today, is the serious lack of facilities. This lack of facilities, I believe, was very clearly highlighted in the Human Sciences Research Council report on sport. They brought out three things which I think are worthy of mention. The first was the very unequal distribution in the provision of facilities. For example, Whites have 73% of all athletic tracks, 92% of all golf courses and 84% of all hockey fields. White schools have some 73% of all sporting facilities. The second thing which they bring out is the provision of sporting facilities and the fragmented way in which they are provided. There are some 47 first and second tier Government bodies who provide these facilities and there are 15 Government departments included in this. In addition to that there are hundreds of local authorities and municipalities who also provide sporting facilities. This results in a fragmented, unco-ordinated and completely uneven provision of sporting facilities throughout South Africa.

The third point they highlight is the financing of facilities and the share which the central Government plays in making finance available. During 1979-80, the period which the survey covered, the total finance going into sport was R571 million, of which only some R28 million came from central Government, namely 4%, and R14 million from the provincial authorities, namely 2,3%. Individuals made up the greatest contribution of the lot, contributing some 31% of the total financing. At the same time it was estimated that if reasonable facilities are to be provided for all population groups, we would need some R1 432 million to be spent on sport. Obviously we cannot do this overnight and it is obviously impossible for central Government to provide all this money. What we do need, however, is some clear statement from the Minister that in time we are going to make an attempt to provide adequate facilities for all the population groups in this country.

In this regard I would like to highlight two points which were brought up in this report. The first one was the establishment of a statutory sports council. The hon member for Sandton has called for this in the past. He even had a Bill on the Order Paper for this in the past. We believe that such a council could better co-ordinate the provision of facilities and could better channel the available funds into the most needy areas. Another recommendation which came out of the report was the establishment or allowing of sports pools. The Minister will know that sports pools are a common method of channelling money into sports in other countries. It does take some of the burden off central Government, and we would strongly urge him to consider this method of finding money and of making it available for sport.

Since the last Sport Vote a number of significant events have taken place in sport in South Africa. Some of them are good news; some bad news. Let me deal with the good news first. We on this side of the House were very pleased to see that the English rugby tour is going to take place. The side will be arriving in South Africa sometime later this month. We are glad that the English Rugby Board did not bow to political pressure to cancel this tour. One of the most newsworthy events that has taken place in the last few months is the Zola Budd affair.

We are very sad that she had to leave the country in order to pursue her athletic career, but we wish her well and will be following her progress with great interest. We are proud that she learnt how to run in South Africa and we will always remember her for that. At the same time one cannot help reflecting on the many other South African sportsmen who have been forced to leave the country in order to pursue their sporting careers. The list is too long to go into here, but a few that immediately spring to mind are, for example Sydney Maree, who is now an American citizen; Mark Handelsman, an Olympic candidate in Israel; Johan Kriek; Cliff Drysdale; the three cricketers Alan Lamb, Chris Smith and Tony Greigg, who are now all English citizens; Kepler Wessels, who is now an Australian citizen; and Gertie Coetzee, who I understand is in the process of becoming an American citizen. I think that it is extremely sad for us as South Africans that these people have been forced to leave the country in order to realize their potential.

We also, of course, had our share of bad news this year. All the bad news we have had as far as sport is concerned, has been related to some or other discriminatory law in South Africa. I think it is just as well to review some of these. We first of all had the Colin Croft incident when he was thrown off a train in Cape Town. If we did not have laws in this country relating to who can travel in what carriage, this incident would never have arisen. It is something we have asked the hon the Minister of Transport Affairs repeatedly to do away with. I do not think that most South Africans have any idea how bad incidents like this are for our sporting authorities overseas. I think the best way to illustrate this is to quote from a speech made by the English Minister of Sport, Mr Neil McFarlane, in the House of Commons in February this year. I quote from his Hansard, col 105:

Another incident, which hit the sporting scene in South Africa like a bombshell last year, was of course the gauche attitude relating to school sport. Unfortunately this became widely publicized throughout the world because it first hit the headlines during the International Rugby Media Conference in South Africa. Another recent incident of course is the question of the Coloured coach, who has been appointed to coach a Witbank soccer side. This man, unfortunately, had a White wife, so that created all sorts of snags as well. A final incident, one which is probably going to come to the fore in the next few months, is one which is brewing, relating to the cricketer, Alvin Kallicharan, who has now been invited to play cricket for a Welkom club. We believe that the retention of laws prohibiting Indians from living in the Free State is completely untenable and a source of embarrassment to all South Africans. No doubt some provision will be made for him, but it illustrates the hypocrisy of the whole system, when a foreigner can be afforded some form of honorary White status. What happens to the Coloured, Indian and Black South Africans who are not afforded the same honorary White status?

Mr Chairman, one can go along with many of the sentiments expressed by the hon member for Pietermaritzburg South, particularly in so far as sporting achievements are concerned. [Interjections.]

I should like to make use of this opportunity to thank Dr Meyer, the Director General, very much indeed for his wonderful period of service at the helm of National Education. We will certainly miss him in this important post. We hope that with all his activities he will enjoy a prosperous future career. Thank you very much, doctor.

Furthermore I have learnt that Mr and Mrs Marx who have been with him for some considerable time are also about to take their leave of the department. To them we also say many thanks for the service they have rendered.

When we look at sporting achievements it may perhaps be fitting to take note of the fact that in the department we have to deal with sport which is today one of the most powerful weapons for cementing friendships and for rectifying warped international perspectives. Therefore the accomplishments of our crack sporting men and women create a positive image when time and time again they act as ambassadors for our country. I cannot help mentioning the name of Gary Player who, because of his ingenuity and perseverance, continues to be one of our most brilliant ambassadors on international golf courses. With his charming and sincere personality he means a lot to the country.

During the international gymnastics display in Zurich, Switzerland, in 1982, Ambassador Van Heerden said in Bonn, West Germany, that because of its impeccable conduct the South African team had accomplished more for the Republic in the field of diplomacy than the embassy had been capable of achieving in five years. This speaks volumes for us South Africans.

I want to add immediately that we regret the fact that Zola Budd has left South Africa. She has caused a worldwide sensation but we do not begrudge her the opportunity of ultimately also developing her talent further. In Britain she was subject to criticism, and even Maggie Thatcher was obliged to take action against the venomous criticism on the part of the Labour Party. We are grateful for that. We are also grateful for Evette de Klerk’s achievements in atheletics. One is thankful for Kevin Curren, who caused quite a commotion at the Wimbledon Tennis Championships. According to a newspaper cutting which I have in my possession he said he was very proud of still being able to maintain the good name of South Africa. His total eclipse of Jimmy Connors was an outstanding accomplishment indeed.

Mr Chairman, mention has also been made here of Gerrie Coetzee and Sydney Maree. I have here a newspaper clipping of a report to the effect that Sydney Maree said: “I have set the record particularly for the sake of South Africa”. One is grateful that these athletes, irrespective of their colour, were able to defeat international giants in a world championship. Then there is also Bruce Fordyce who has gained three successive victories in the gruelling London to Brighton Marathon. There is also Shaun Thompson, the erstwhile world champion surfer. Then there is yachtsman Bertie Reed who won the BOC Challenge Around the World Yacht Race in his particular class. Among other things he also broke an existing world record by an unprecedented 49 days.

We have two world champions in practical pistol shooting, namely Mrs Edith Almeida in 1983 and Mrs Waltraut Louw in 1979 and 1981. In cycling circles we have Alan van Heerden, while canoeist Greyling Viljoen settled accounts with the world’s best canoeists in Spain last year.

I am not even talking about England where Alan Lamb and Chris Smith are stars in English test cricket. I am not even talking about Kepler Wessels, who has distinguished himself in the Australian test team. Thanks to country cricket, names such as Peter Kirsten, Garth le Roux, Barry Richards and Clive Rice have become household names in England.

In the sphere of rugby we have various prominent players. We also hope that with the arrival of the British rugby team we will again be in a position to watch first class rugby played by our own Springboks. There are rugby players like Danie Gerber, Errol Tobias, Wilfred Cupido, Hennie Bekker, Rob Louw and many others.

On the racetracks of the world the name of Sarel van der Merwe has of course become well known. Just look at what he has done for us on the world’s racetracks. Furthermore there are Kork Ballington and John Eckerold who are motorcyle champions.

There is hardly a sphere in which we cannot perform well. In this regard I should also like to mention what Mr Joe Pamensky has done for international cricket tours to South Africa. Mr Justice H W O Klopper was chairman of the World Boxing Association. Then there are also the Thompson Brothers leading the world body for veteran motor cars, and Roy Saint who is a member of the international water skiing body. There is also Koos Botha who is a member of the world tug-of-war team. So, one can go on mentioning names. There are actually too many to mention them all. They are ambassadors for South Africa.

I am sorry the hon member for Kuruman is not here today because I wish to talk now about the sports policy of the National Party since it has been said time and again that we have deviated and that we find ourselves now on the road to integration. I just want to tell hon members of the CP what the hon member for Kuruman said.

So you still stand by the Loskop Dam speech?

I destroyed you earlier in the other House. Do not let me destroy you here as well for I am eager to get at the Progs. I see red whenever I spot a Prog.

The hon member for Kuruman, referring to the Progs, said (Hansard, Monday, 21 May 1979, col 6969):

He then went on to say (col 6972):

The hon member for Kuruman then went on to talk about the ideals we were pursuing, and he said:

He then added—

Then he said:

Are you still in favour of that?

Yes, I am still in favour of that just as I used to be because that also happened to be the standpoint of the National Party in 1976 when that hon member was still with us. That hon member also joined us in asking for healthy co-operation in 1976. That hon member also pleaded for interaction among all the population groups. That hon member pleaded for competition among all the population groups. That hon member asked for combined administration by all the population groups. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, I merely want to thank the hon member for Rosettenville for his very impressive and positive contribution to this sport debate. The hon member submitted to us an impressive list indeed of names of South Africans who have made their mark both nationally and internationally. We are really proud of the accomplishments of those South Africans. It actually proves that we as South Africans have the ability of contributing our share and of maintaining high standards despite the international sport boycott. I want to refer in particular to Zola Budd. We saw again on Saturday how well she performed overseas. She is the third best in the world over 10 000 metres. This proves that the standards we maintain in the training of our young athletes are really of international quality. I think this is an outstanding accomplishment on our part, particularly in the light of the so-called international sport boycott against South Africa.

Why is she doing it in London?

Because she needs international experience.

Why cannot she get international experience here?

Because people like the members of the PFP go out into the world to convey the following message: Boycott, boycott, boycott. It is typical of the Progressive Federal Party, but they do not realize the damage they are doing to South African sportsmen with this attitude.

Ron, you go and run in the Comrades Marathon.

Mr Chairman, I will join that hon member any time.

If one reads the departmental report one finds on page 114 a very impressive list of international competitions which have in fact been held in South Africa in various sports during 1983. If one looks at the 43 various types of sports in which these people participated one can clearly see that the strategy which we are employing at the moment is working for South African sport. Organizations such as Hart, Sanroc and so forth are beginning to fail dismally in their attempt to influence overseas sports bodies. It is heartening to see that those who are concerned about sport overseas are now at last making their voices heard. I think we will see more and more sports bodies and previous friends of ours overseas letting their voices be heard and we will find that sportsmen despite political agitation will be coming to South Africa.

There are two matters I should like to raise with the hon the Minister. Firstly, I should like to refer to school sport. I should like to ask the hon the Minister whether the new policy of community participation in financing school activities will equally apply to sporting facilities at schools. We are aware that there is an increasing tendency on the part of the Government to have the community get more involved in the control of its particular school. We know that shortly school fees will have to be increased as the Government will reduce its contribution. Communities will be more represented and will have a greater responsibility in decision-making on the school councils regarding the appointment of teachers, etc. I should like to know from the hon the Minister whether this new financial strategy is likely seriously to affect finance which may be made available to schools to create their sports infrastructure.

Secondly, I should like to pay tribute to the private sector in South Africa, who are the unsung heroes of providing finance for infrastructure in sport. Very few of the professional sports in South Africa today would be able to continue with their activities and even amateurs would not be able to continue participating at their present level if it were not for the fact that private enterprise is prepared to make a very substantial contribution towards sports promotion. If one looks at the rugby fields one sees advertisements for cameras, insurance companies and beer manufacturing companies etc along the border. One sees these advertisements at horse races and at surf life saving competitions. One finds them at tennis tournaments. Always in the background one sees the names of those companies in South Africa who are prepared to make an investment in sport. Their financial return on these advertisements is probably one of the lowest they get, but they have a social conscience and are prepared to meet their social responsibilities by putting money into sport in South Africa. I should like to pay particular tribute to those companies who have been prepared to do it. I should also like to encourage more companies in South Africa to put more money into sport one way or the other. Whether it is by way of adopting a team which they then finance, whether it is by way of taking advertising space, whether it is by way of making direct grants to sport, I believe our private enterprise should make it a policy of every company in South Africa to make some contribution towards sports promotion in South Africa. I believe the companies themselves will appreciate that this is a highly visible means of making themselves and their interests in sport in South Africa known. There are obviously tax advantages as well for these companies which do contribute to sport in South Africa. I certainly hope that we will see an increasing tendency amongst companies to do this. In particular in respect of the developing groups in South Africa I believe private enterprise can play a greater role by providing some form of financial assistance to them.

In conclusion I should like to say to the hon the Minister that we are most grateful to his department for taking the responsibility for sports promotion in South Africa. A healthy body goes with a healthy mind. If we are all as fit as we should be I am sure most people will vote NRP because they will realize what a healthy party that is.

Mr Chairman, in principle I do not disagree with the hon member for Durban North. I am sure the hon the Minister will reply to his questions.

I should like to react to what the hon member for Kuruman said yesterday in respect of school sport. I want firstly to sketch the background in order to place the matter in its correct perspective. Reference was also made to a Coloured who had been captain of the Boland Nuffield team, and mention was also made of the Craven Rugby Week. In the third instance reference was also made—the hon member for Koedoespoort should listen because I should like to hear his reaction to this—to a school athletics meeting that had taken place. This meeting took place under the patronage of the Western Province Schools’ Athletics Association. I think the idea that the hon member for Kuruman wanted to put forward was that the National Party now found itself on the road to integration as far as sport was concerned. What is the situation in this association? In the first instance this association has been in existence now for seven years. I do not know whether the hon member for Rissik or the hon member for Koedoespoort has any problem with this. As I have said, the association has been in existence now for seven years and is an autonomous body which does not conduct its activities within the school context. It acts with complete autonomy in respect of the organizing of sporting events involving primary schools of the province. All this is within the compass of the policy of the National Party. I should like now to put a question to the hon member for Rissik. I want to ask him whether he supported the Government’s sports policy in 1976.

If I am given a chance to speak I will reply to that hon member.

No, Mr Chairman, that hon member need only say yes or no. If the hon member has a problem in respect of his reply he can safely ask the hon member for Koedoespoort to tell us whether he supported the sports policy of the National Party in 1976.

Give me a 10-minute turn to speak and I will tell you.

I contend that those hon members never supported that policy. If they had supported it they would not have had a problem in respect of the Nuffield Cricket Week, in respect of the Craven Rugby Week or even in respect of this athletics meeting because it has been the policy of the National Party since 1976 that sporting events outside of the school context are the affair of the sporting associations themselves, that those sporting associations act autonomously in this respect and that it is also for the parent to decide whether to allow his child to participate or not.

Does the hon member know that at the Transvaal Congress of 1976 a small group of people voted against that policy?

Yes, but that is why I want to know what the standpoint of these hon members is. 1976 is rather long ago. I should like to hear from the hon member for Rissik or from the hon member for Koedoespoort this evening whether the Conservative Party favours a policy of separation in sport from club level up to international level.

The hon member for Rosettenville voted against it in 1976.

No, I want to know what the hon member for Rissik has to say.

I will send you our booklet and you can read what it contains.

If the hon member for Rissik is referring to their constitution, I can tell him that I have it here with me and that I accept as correct what stands in it. For the purpose of my argument I should like to quote what is said here in relation to sport. It states:

I accept that this is still the policy of the Conservative Party. Does the hon member for Rissik agree with this?

I wrote it.

If that is so I should really like to hear the opinion of the hon member for Rissik regarding a statement by the hon member for Waterberg in which he said, inter alia:

I should really like to hear the opinion of the hon member for Rissik in this regard.

Give me a chance.

I should really like to know whether the hon member for Rissik and the hon member for Koedoespoort agree with this statement. [Interjections.] The argument can be advanced that those hon members do not know when the hon member for Waterberg uttered these words, and that it is therefore possible that he may have said this while he was still a member of the National Party. However, do they know that he made this statement at the time of the by-election in Parys while he was a member of the Conservative Party?

And you said there that there was not going to be either a Coloured or an Indian in the Cabinet.

Earlier this afternoon we heard about jackals and faces and chameleons and all sorts of things of that nature, but if we look now at statements in connection with sport and at chameleon tricks, I believe the hon member for Waterberg is a very good example. I want to quote something in this regard. I readily reveal my source, for to judge by reports on the meeting at the weedend, not all newspapers are equally reliable. I quote from Die Afrikaner of 24 August 1983. It states:

Furthermore, I should like to refer the hon member for Rissik and the hon member for Koedoespoort, who are frontbenchers of the CP here, to the Patriot of 13 January 1984. Under the heading “Rugby” it states:

What do they mean by this? Was it not the hon member for Kuruman who launched an attack on Craven Week yesterday? Then they come along with another interesting matter and ask:

Mr Chairman, in most modern countries of the world physical training and sport are seen as an integral part of the education program. In this respect therefore South Africa is no exception, and it is therefore also the responsibility of the Department of National Education to improve the spiritual, intellectual and physical potential of the citizens of the country for the benefit of society. The directorate for the promotion of sport and recreation has been specifically instructed to improve participation in sport and recreational activities domestically among all population groups, and also to promote international relationships and participation. South Africa is not spared in the international sphere, and all world powers are being employed in order to isolate us in the field of sport. Is it not ironical that while the Government has been depoliticizing sport since 1979, it now appears as though the international community is demanding that its sporting affairs be handled by politicians? It is with great appreciation that we on this side of the House note the outstanding contribution sporting bodies are making to combat the isolation of South Africa in the sporting sphere. The international rugby media congress, which was attended by approximately 70 rugby writers from 14 countries, is a good example of this.

On behalf of this side of the House I should also like to welcome with acclamation the British Lions who are due to arrive in South Africa within a few days. Time does not permit me to discuss the success of the West Indian cricket tours. We can talk about it further on a later occasion.

In conclusion I also want to express to the department, and specifically to the directorate for the promotion of sport and recreation and the liaison staff at head office as well as at all the various regional offices, the gratitude and appreciation of this side of the House. It must be emphasized that we in South Africa usually place the accent on competitive sport. In this respect the participation figure is 48 out of 1 000, while in the case of recreational sport it is 106 out of 1 000. [Time expired.]

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Newcastle, to whom I listened most carefully, accuses the Conservative Party of having been inconsistent in the statements they have made over the years on sport. I heartily agree with him. I want to tell hon members on that side that the PFP and the CP hold very little brief for each other in so far as sports policy is concerned. However, it ill behoves that hon member to throw stones from the glass house wherein he is standing. It was only a few years ago that it was the National Party that would not allow the Maoris to come into this country. It was only a few years ago that the National Party banned Mr D’Oliveira from coming here, thus starting the sports boycott against South Africa. It was only a few years ago that the NP refused to have mixed clubs and said that the concept of merit selection was a communist plot and in fact refused to have Black people sullying the Springbok blazer. Those were the words of one of the past Ministers of Sport and Recreation. We see today the change in the NP. So much changed are they that they are prepared to hasten and hustle Mr Kallicharan into the Free State through the backdoor in order to get round a policy of theirs. We are delighted at the change of heart of the National Party on sports policy and we support that change of heart. However, I think they should be very careful when they throw stones at people about changes in policy because they are living in glass houses themselves.

I listened carefully to the hon member for Durban North. He mentioned two matters which I thought were important. Firstly, he said that there had taken place 43 international sporting events in South Africa in the past year, as reported in the annual report of the department. I looked at these and wondered whether members really know that at least 50% of those international events were made possible by sponsors. He mentioned the role of private enterprise in sport as being the benefactors of sport. That is basically what I would like to talk about today.

In the coming financial year the Government will spend some R8,196 million on the promotion of sport in South Africa. This proposed expenditure is split amongst five departments. The Department of Co-operation and Development out of its total budget of R1,9 billion has earmarked the princely sum of R125 000 for the promotion of sport amongst Black people. The Department of Internal Affairs out of an overall budget of R912 million has set aside R45 000 to be used to promote sport amongst the Indian population in South Africa. The Department of National Education which has a budget for 1984-85 of R866 million has allocated R6 112 000 to its sports section. The Department of Prisons will spend some R274 000 mainly on sports facilities for its own staff. The Department of Community Development will disburse some R1,5 million on the next phase of the planning and construction of the national sport centre at Crown Mines. It is an easy calculation to establish that there will be an expenditure of some 33 cents per head of population in South Africa in the course of next year in respect of sport. Taking into account the woeful gaps which exist between our various communities, the inadequacy of fields, the dearth of training facilities and coaching facilities, the very poorness of so many sports communities, it is a source of great disappointment to me that so low a priority has been afforded to sport by the Government. If merit selection is to mean anything, if people are to be able to acquire the expertise necessary to gain them selection and if merit selection is to be more than just a nice sounding phrase, specific and urgent programmes are needed to bring facilities, expertise and opportunities to the hundreds and thousands of sportsmen who come from the less privileged, the less affluent sections of our community. I believe this allocation of public moneys to sport is probably one of the lowest, judged by any criteria, to be found in the Western World.

So it has fallen on the shoulders of private individuals and of private enterprise to foot the major part of the sporting bill in South Africa. It is correct that South African sport should look to private enterprise to fill these gaps, because it is not only the Government which has a responsibility in this regard. I estimate that in the past year private enterprise has invested over R25 million, about three times that planned for expenditure by the Government this year, in sport in the Republic, this money being channelled to promoting major events both national and international, providing coaching facilities, developing fields, providing awards and prizes and also to cover the enormous travelling costs of teams in the Republic. Apart from supporting internal sport on a huge scale, such prestige events as for instance the West Indies cricket tour, the Altech Open Tennis Tournament, the international jockeys’ series and the Formula 1 Grand Prix would not have been possible without an enormous input from private enterprise.

Of course, sports sponsors are not totally altruistic. We all know that. The companies derive benefits in the form of publicity being given to their corporate images and to their products. However, sports sponsors, as represented by the South African Sports Sponsors’ Association, are limited in the benefits that they may derive. Agreements exist with the SABC and also with the various sporting bodies circumscribing their rights, what they can and what they cannot do. Be that as it may, sponsors play an invaluable role in furthering South African sport and in many cases domestic sponsorships relieve the Government of responsibilities which it cannot or will not take up. Apart from the actual cash spent directly on a sponsorship, every sponsorship generates other revenue which redounds to the general good. For instance, more money is spent on sports ground advertising signs bringing extra revenue to sports bodies. Newspaper advertising revenue is increased and consequently through media publicity gate revenue is increased. Gate revenue is of course the life-blood of sports bodies. This revenue is needed for coaching, training and so forth.

Over the years the Government has allowed rebates for tax purposes at two levels, namely at the figure of 46,2% in respect of internal events and double that figure in respect of sponsorships relating to international fixtures. Earlier this year the second rebate was withdrawn. This sudden withdrawal could have serious consequences for international events being staged in the Republic. Several of the events are now in jeopardy. When we realize that less than one-fifth of the money spent on sponsorships relates to international events and that the overwhelming amount in sponsorships is spent on internal events one can understand that the financial benefit derived by the Exchequer from this withdrawal of the rebate is really a very small sum of money. At a stroke of a pen the Government, unwittingly and without malice, but nonetheless quite successfully, has done what our external anti-South African forces have been attempting to do for years. My appeal to the hon the Minister is that he should please speak to the hon the Minister of Finance and ask him to reinstate this second rebate. If he can succeed in that, he will see to it that the goose that lays the golden egg is not killed and that sport in South Africa will be served.

Mr Chairman, the hon member for Sandton must excuse me if I do not react to his plea for more funds. The hon the Minister will probably reply to that.

A month from today South Africa’s heavyweight, Gerrie Coetzee, boxes against Larry Holmes for the biggest purse that has ever been offered to a South African boxer. Both boxers are world champions and the winner will wear the crown of a new overall world champion. This is a big breakthrough for professional boxing in the world. The World Boxing Association, of which Gerrie is presently the recognized heavyweight champion, was established in 1920. The World Boxing Council, of which Larry Holmes was the former heavyweight champion, was established in 1963. Everything points to the fact that under the new boxing body that has been established, only one heavyweight champion of the world will be crowned. This boxing match is enjoying widespread interest throughout the world, and it is exciting to know that a South African from Boksburg, the son of Oom Flip Coetzee, is the centre of attraction. Gerrie is a worthy boxing ambassador and, regardless of the many emotion-packed remarks by his American manager and those of American newsmen, Gerrie is and remains a true South African. It is a great pity that this fight will not take place in South Africa, as it could contribute to the further improvement of relations among peoples. I do not want to say that the present legislation or the circumstances created by this legislation is the only reason why the fight is not taking place here, but I am nevertheless of the opinion that certain provisions of the Boxing and Wrestling Control Act could have contributed to the decision to have the fight take place in America. I would like to have a closer look at the present legislation as regards boxing.

In this regard I want to say at the outset that I do not want to launch an attack on the persons and bodies which have over the years tried to regulate and promote professional boxing in the country. It is also not my intention to single out and malign individuals because of their association with the practising of the sport. I am completely satisfied that there are no individuals who misuse their position to their own advantage. The day after tomorrow, on 10 May, it will be 94 years since the Transvaal Volksraad, with the adoption of section 58, placed a total embargo on the holding of boxing tournaments. This ban applied to professional boxing as well as amateur boxing. On 28 March 1923, Act No 5 of 1923 was passed, heralding the era of boxing as a sport in South Africa. This Act was aimed at laying down uniform rules and ensuring that there was orderly conduct at tournaments. John Sholto Douglas, the eighth Marquis of Queensberry, campaigned for the adoption of the Queensberry Rules during the period 1884 to 1900. Before the general adoption of these rules, people boxed with bare fists, and the first British boxing champion of this era was Jack Broughton, 1704-1789. Round about 1860 experienced American boxers arrived on the scene. Thus John Heenan, the then American champion, fought Tom Sayers, the British champion, in Farnborough, Hampshire, on 17 April 1860 according to the Queensberry Rules. Heenan weighed 195 pounds and Sayers 149 pounds. The fight was over 42 rounds and the outcome was a draw. The fight between John L Sullivan and Gentleman Jim Corbett in 1892 was the beginning of a new era in professional boxing.

I mention these few interesting episodes from the boxing annals to show at what late stage the sport of boxing in South Africa was able to come into its own. As a matter of interest I want to mention that Act No 10 of 1939 was passed on 28 March 1939 which allowed wrestling tournaments under the same conditions as boxing tournaments. This was of course the period of the Masked Marvel. On 15 June 1954 the Boxing and Wrestling Control Act was passed. However, the Act only came into operation on 1 January 1960. In actual fact, therefore, the Act of 1923 applied up to 1 January 1960.

Against this background I want to sketch a few problems which I see in regard to the application of the present legislation. In the first place this Act gives wide powers to a statutory control board which is not representative of the boxing fraternity. In the second place things have taken place over the years which have made many people unhappy. It has so happened, for example, that officials, boxers, promoters, coaches and others have been arraigned before the control board for contraventions of rules and regulations which are punishable under the law by a fine or imprisonment, and that after the hearing the board has withdrawn the licences of these people without giving any reasons. As far as I have been able to establish, no formal charges have ever been laid before our courts by the control board against any boxer, promoter or any such person. The control board decides on the issuing of licences to promoters and suchlike and gives no reasons for the refusal of such an application. I am personally aware of a promoter who for the past four years has periodically applied for a licence without success. The income of the control board is obtained from licencing fees, levies and sponsorships. Although the income and expenditure statements are audited annually and submitted to the hon the Minister, the people who pay the fees and levies have no insight into these statements, which gives rise to dissatisfaction.

Every South African boxer has to contribute part of his purse to a welfare fund for boxers. As I understand it, this fund amounts to almost R100 000, and there is great dissatisfaction because contributors do not know what happens to the money. The sponsorship of a well-known gin producer or marketer amounts to a considerable sum, and complaints have been received from a number of quarters against liquor advertisements which promising young boxers, who should not use strong drink, have to display and promote at every possible opportunity.

For every tournament which is presented, promoters have to pay 6% of the gross income, to a maximum amount of R5 000, to the control board, irrespective of whether the tournament showed a profit or not. If the Gerrie Coetzee/Larry Holmes fight were to be held in the Republic, the promoter would have to pay R500 000 to the control board and, of course, the normal income tax as well. Gerrie would have to contribute 1½% of his purse, in other words approximately R60 000, to the welfare fund for boxers, while Larry Holmes would be exempted from those disbursements in terms of the Act.

The control board has decided that a blood relative cannot coach a boxer or assist him during a tournament. This rule, which I cannot find anywhere on paper, means that Gerrie Coetzee’s father cannot coach his two younger sons and possibly also make champions of them. A statement by the executive director of the Transvaal Boxing Control Board that he was allowed to act as referee in America because of his Greek citizenship, also made many boxing fans unhappy.

I can mention many other problems to motivate my request that this Act be investigated again. However, I want to content myself by saying that many of the approximately 300 boxers, promoters and coaches as well as many boxing fans in general are unhappy about the present state of affairs.

I want to close by saying to Gerrie what we usually say in Parliament: Eat Larry up! If anybody else stands in your way, eat him up as well.

Mr Chairman, I should like to thank the hon member for Maraisburg very much indeed for, and in fact also congratulate him on, his particularly well prepared and knowledgeable speech in regard to possible problems in connection with the laws dealing with the control of boxing and wrestling and the ways in which they could be improved. Over the past months he has proved himself to be an interested and sympathetic aficionado of the professional boxing profession, and I have taken very serious note of the matters that he raised here. I undertake to take a very close look at these matters together with him and the directorate for the promotion of sport and recreation, and I want to say that I will make use of his considered suggestions.

I also want to congratulate the hon member for Newcastle. I do not think that any Minister’s work has ever been taken over more efficiently than was done by the hon member when he replied effectively to the hon member for Kuruman in regard to the policy on school sport of the NP and also the chameleon-like antics of people on the other side who have so much to say about the sport policy. I thank him sincerely for it.

The hon member for Rosettenville eulogized our sportsmen and our sports administrators in his own inimitable fashion, and I want to associate myself with his remarks. We can mention many names but by mentioning just a few names I want to pay tribute to the whole of the sporting community and to thank them for the excellent work that is being done. I do not think that we can find a better name than Zola Budd in order through her to pay tribute to, to express our pride in and to encourage all our sportsmen and women in this country. Zola Budd will always remain a girl from the Free State in the hearts of every South African, and we wish her every success, just as we wish all our sportsmen and women success through her.

I also want to mention the names of a few people who have made a great contribution and who are promoting foreign relationships particularly as sports diplomats. I refer here to Mr Rudolf Opperman, the chairman of the South African Olympic and National Games Association, and the Sports Federation. Then there is also Mr Joe Pamensky, a sport diplomat par excellence, who has had so much really spectacular success in the cricketing sphere. Then there is also that indestructible veteran and doyen of sport, Dr Danie Craven, and I want to thank him for everything that he has achieved. I can mention many other examples as well, and I also want to refer to what the promoters and administrators of tennis have done in continuing to promote topflight world tennis in this country. However, ladies and gentlemen, during the past week...

Order! I want to point out to the hon the Minister that members must be addressed as hon members and not as ladies and gentlemen.

Thank you, Mr Chairman. I want to point to hon members that over the past year athletics particularly has given us a golden year of records and other achievements. When we consider the length of time that athletics has been isolated and how in spite of that isolation success has been achieved because of the devotion of coaches, administrators and athletes themselves, I do not think we can do otherwise than express a word of thanks to all of them through the medium of Prof Charles Nieuwoudt, their supreme head.

†At the request of the hon member for Pietermaritzburg South I would like to give the assurance that the Government is giving high priority to a method of narrowing, in one way or another, the big gap that exists—and I admit that it exists—in respect of facilities for sports for the different population groups, not only at school level, but also in the community life. The problem is that there are so many other priorities, especially in the education field, that we sometimes find that the communities concerned prefer that the sports facilities should be held in abeyance until such time as the educational needs of the communities have been fully accommodated. However, because we accept that there are shortcomings in this regard, we are busy working on this problem.

The hon member for Sandton referred to the importance of private enterprise and I wish to agree with him fully in this respect, but I am afraid that I cannot agree with his request that we should once again go back to the old tax rebate which was available to some sponsors of international sporting events. In those cases they received the ordinary 46,2% deduction in terms of companies tax, as well as another 46,2% deduction in terms of the so-called export promotion programme which they were successful in getting, and finally they were also exempted from the 7% general sales tax. They therefore received deductions totalling more than 100% at the cost of the taxpayer, while they also received the full benefit of the publicity, etc. I am afraid that the hon the Minister of Finance had a good case that this was perhaps going too far. He in fact received very serious and well argued objections from leaders of the financial community. We shall certainly continue with the 46,2% company tax rebate and with the exemption from general sales tax. However, I cannot agree to his request as regards the other matter.

To what does the sales tax apply? Where is the benefit there?

Sales tax applies to all advertisements, and sports sponsorship has been specifically excluded from advertisements. However, sports sponsorships is included as advertisements in order to be exempted from company tax. They get their bread buttered on both sides in this respect.

The hon member for Durban North also referred to this matter and I have now dealt with his queries as well.

*In pursuance of the remarks of the hon member for Pietermaritzburg South in regard to a national sporting council, I should like to inform the Committee of the state of affairs in connection with the consideration of the recommendations of the HSRC’s report on sport that was released in 1982. Because of serious doubts on the part of local Government bodies in regard to the acceptability of certain findings and recommendations in that report, deferment had repeatedly to be granted up to July last year in order to afford everyone the opportunity of commenting. After various discussions among representatives of the United Municipal Executive of South Africa, the chief sports unbrella bodies and the department, under the leadership of Mr Rudolph Opperman, success was achieved in September 1983 in reaching agreement regarding comments on the vexed points at issue, thus satisfying the local authorities. It was however decided to submit this consensus to the National Interim Liaison Committee on Local Government Affairs as well in order also to involve local government bodies for Coloureds and Indians in the matter. Unfortunately, this could only be done in March 1984.

A key recommendation in the HSRC report regards the establishment by law of a South African Sports Council. The sports congress which dealt with this report in November 1982 supported this idea generally but asked that there should be further discussion among interested parties in regard to the detailed composition of the proposed sports council. However, as certain fundamental problems arose in regard to the implementation of the proposed sports council, I had a broad representative discussion with all interested persons and bodies recently in order to try to iron out the problems positively and to try to promote the establishment of a sports council.

I want to refer briefly to the four most important problems. Firstly, although the South African Olympic and National Games Association and the South African Sports Federation strongly advocate the idea of a sports council, there are nevertheless a few very strong national sports control bodies that do not associate themselves with this idea. This holds good for rugby, cricket, tennis, swimming and furthermore, perhaps a lesser body, namely sailing as well. They all want to remain outside of the authority of such a sports council.

Secondly, in its key chapter, chapter 2, the HRSC report motivates the establishment of a sports council chiefly on the grounds that it will eliminate the fragmentation of national sports umbrella bodies, of which there are at least nine, through the medium of a single sports council which will have to take over the functions of most of these bodies. It is contended that the duplication and conflict of functions and the resultant friction will be eliminated in this way, and that it will in fact effect a rationalization in the utilization of existing available financial and manpower resources. The report asks that the existing and obviously autonomous umbrella bodies be given the choice of inclusion or otherwise in the sports council. However, in their comments practically all the existing umbrella bodies expressed doubt in regard to inclusion in the new council. In doing so, they actually removed the basis for the main reason set out in the HSRC report for the introduction of such a council. The result of this attitude will be that instead of rationalization, the establishment of a new council will simply add a further umbrella body to the nine that already exist. That is why it is necessary that there should first of all be greater co-operation in regard to the rationalization motive for the establishment of a sports council on the part of the umbrella bodies concerned.

Thirdly, in chapter 12 of the HSRC report it is contended that the composition of a sports council should be given effect to from the point of view of the finding of a balance and of harmony among the interested groups as a whole. They argue further against its composition from representatives of the various particular interested groups and the spokesmen that have to account to their interested groups. They argue in favour of “objective and uncommitted individuals”. This is actually a very idealistic but rather unrealistic view which is in conflict with its own arguments in that the report suggests a council which will consist of the representatives of interested groups against which they have just argued. While the report also argues strongly against a sports council consisting of uncommitted authoritative persons appointed by a Government body, as in Great Britain or Canada for example, the eventual proposal is still essentially in conflict with its own basic arguments against the representatives of interests.

The fourth problem is that although the HSRC report already regards the proposed sports council as justified even if it were only to bring about the rationalization of the existing and available finance and manpower for national sports management, it is nevertheless the considered point of view of an influential and authoritative person like Mr Rudolph Opperman, the president of the two main umbrella bodies, that unless a considerable increase over and above the existing financial means—the hon member for Sandton also advocated this—can be assured not only through the medium of Government grants but also from more independent sources, the establishment of a sports council cannot be justified and that the status quo should rather be maintained.

After we had considered these objections of groups that did not wish to be included, the lack of rationalization on the part of umbrella bodies, the problem of the excessive representation of interests and the financial problems, the conference of all the interested groups which I convened in Pretoria last month agreed at the suggestion of Mr Opperman to ask Prof Gert Scholtz, the director of the HSRC’s sports investigation, together with his chief research team and in consultation with the various umbrella bodies and the few aggrieved sporting fields, to make a further effort to try to formulate more satisfactory and workable proposals for a sports council.

In the light of the point of view held by Mr Opperman, I undertook to ensure that the Department of National Education would in the meantime approach the Treasury to obtain support for a meaningful increase in financial support by the State for the promotion of sport at national and umbrella body level in order to place more effective means in the hands of the proposed sports council.

It is my opinion that this undertaking is an important step forward, that there is more consensus among elements who have had difficulty finding one another, and that we can succeed in giving practical implementation to the proposal of a sports council.

In the few minutes at my disposal I want to refer to a few further remarks of hon members who participated in the debate earlier. On this occasion I want generally to express my sincere thanks to hon members for the high level at which this debate has been carried on, for their carefully prepared contributions and for the great measure of expertise and enthusiasm that has been shown in the interests of education, culture and sport.

I thank the hon member for Stellenbosch for his contribution regarding universities. I have already dealt with certain aspects to which he referred. He maintained that university staff were depressed and that they were concerned about the position of the university in the future of South Africa. On behalf of the Government I want to give my personal and unequivocal assurance that the university performs such a unique function, is made up of such an important part of manpower at the highest level in our country and has the task of helping to study and solve such difficult problems that the leadership position of universities in education and our national economy as a whole cannot for a moment be denied or questioned. Although high priority will be given to technikons during the next decade as far as the provision of capital is concerned—they have built up a great backlog in respect of their campus development—provision will nevertheless be made for universities in respect of their normal, research and capital subsidization to such an extent that their leadership position and creative contribution will not be called into question.

I want to put it to the hon member for Bryanston that the Government’s investigation regarding its policy in respect of private schools and, in particular, its financial support of private schools, has made great progress. Nevertheless, co-ordination of this programme is difficult because we are dealing here with provinces which have applied strongly divergent policies in the past. However, I hope that we can bring this matter to finality in the near future and that we shall then be able to make an announcement in this connection.

I also want to support most heartily the request of the hon member for Bryanston in regard to violence on television and video films. My wife and myself were really put off by a film that was shown just before the news yesterday evening. It was an exhibition of revolting and objectionable American violence. I shall ask the Committee of Heads of Education and the HSRC to provide me with the necessary expertise and knowledge so that I can also ask the Government to bring the necessary pressure to bear so that we can get away from our excessive obsession with the fact that it is only exposure to sex and blasphemy that is unacceptable. By means of this overemphasizing of violence we are destroying one of the fundamental sensitivities of our culture.

I find the suggestions of the hon member for Kimberley North in connection with the composition of regional cultural councils quite acceptable. I want to assure him that, in contrast with the past when the department’s cultural advisory bodies emanated chiefly from the large cities, with the composition of the new regional cultural councils we are giving proper attention to our rural regions and larger towns away from the main centres. I also subscribe completely to his suggestion that the school buildings should be utilized not only by the school but by the community as a whole with a view to the promotion of culture. The same things holds good for sporting facilities at schools. We must get away from the exclusive use of sports facilities by only one school. The use of sports facilities by various schools and also the community will come into its own in future planning.

I have already referred to the remarks of the hon member for Koedoespoort.

As usual, the hon member for Johannesburg West made a very knowledgeable contribution in regard to universities. I am in particular agreement with his concluding remarks that universities also have a responsibility to rationalize their own unproductive aspects. We are dealing here particularly with the elimination of unnecessary duplication of courses. Each university must not be permitted to climb on every bandwagon. The new Universities and Technikons Advisory Council will give much closer attention in the future to the question of courses at universities being approved bearing in mind our financial and manpower capabilities. The same things holds good for the efficacy of universities as far as research and training are concerned. I am not one of those who believe that universities alone should have to take the blame for the high failure rate that sometimes occurs. This is also due to shortcomings in respect of the responsibility of parents and the infrastructure provided by the schools. However, in this regard, too, universities have an important rationalization function in increasing their own productivity.

†I gladly accept the suggestion made by the hon member for Durban North to investigate the training and teaching of vocational guidance teachers. I agree with him that this is a very important part of the profession. We can well investigate this matter, which was also mentioned as a high priority in the report of the De Lange Commission.

*The hon member for Paarl made a fine contribution on the South African Library. He also made certain suggestions in regard to rationalization between that library and the Library of Parliament. I think the best would be to leave it to the committee under the chairmanship of the Vice State President which—as the hon the Prime Minister has announced—is soon going to investigate research opportunities for Parliamentary staff.

I want to express great appreciation to the hon member Dr Welgemoed for having dealt with a large number of pertinent and important research matters in a short while. It is the declared policy of the Government to increase the amount spent on research from State funds from the present 0,68% to 1,0% as soon as possible. I also want to assure him that we are considering increasing the emphasis on research into the human sciences. Indeed, the fact that the amount that the HSRC has available for researchers outside of the HSRC, for example at universities, was increased by 46% this year, is proof of the high priority we are giving to this. I also accept his suggestion that particularly as far as the human sciences are concerned, mechanisms be instituted in order to ensure that research results are in fact applied in practice.

The hon member for Helderkruin also made certain remarks in this connection that I have taken to heart.

I do not think it is necessary to reply to the speech of the hon member for Rissik.

I want therefore to content myself by once again thanking most heartily all hon members who participated in the debate.

Vote agreed to.