Mr. Chairman, may I have the privilege of the half-hour?

I am in some difficulty this morning immediately, because …

You are always in trouble!

With a Government like this, yes! It is my pleasure and privilege to be the first to welcome the new Minister who is taking care of this very important portfolio. I have to do so with the former Minister present. Furthermore, we are dealing with 1981, very largely, for which I think the former Minister has to accept some responsibility. So, if there is anything good in this respect, I suppose the Minister has to be praised. If there is anything bad to be said, the present Minister may simply say: “Well, you must talk to him.” I assume that the hon. the Minister who is now assuming the portfolio will accept both praise and the blame, if there should be blame at all.

When the previous Minister resigned from the Nationalist Party, I made a statement calling upon the Prime Minister not to replace him as a first step towards a new approach to the management of education in South Africa. I did not do so because I thought that no-one was necessary to do the work. Obviously, this is an enormous task. I did so rather because it would help us to take seriously the recommendations of the De Lange Commission, which talk of a new single Department of Education. I want to emphasize that because we continually plead for one department, it does not follow that we are asking for some bureaucratic giant. Decentralization and allocation of responsibility is vital, and no single Minister could accept total responsibility without major assistance. But, Mr. Chairman, the management of education in South Africa does not have to be on an ethnic basis either. For example, if you had a Minister who accepted major responsibility for education in South Africa, he could quite easily have a number of Deputy Ministers or even several Directors, each of whom could be responsible for an area of education—by that I mean for example tertiary education, teacher training, secondary schools, primary schools, etc. We do not have to put this into racial compartments. We could distribute the needs of a total education programme for South Africa in that way. I hope that this Minister, whether he is acting in a caretaker capacity or in a permanent capacity, will strongly endorse the recommendations of the De Lange Commission with regard to a single Department of Education. I hope he will not miss this opportunity. He is someone who, I believe, has done a lot of thinking about this.

Mr. Chairman, I should also like to welcome Dr. Fourie, who has taken over the very important and responsible position of Director-General as from 1 May. I wish I had more time, but I would like to pay tribute to Mr. Rousseau, who has now been transferred on promotion. He served the Department very ably and very well for many years, and I know that Dr. Fourie will follow in his footsteps. Dr. Fourie has received most of his education in the Free State, but I am happy to note that he was actually born in the Cape Province, and it is the foundation that really counts in the end! Therefore, Sir, I have no doubt that he is going to do a fine job.

Then, Sir, I should like to thank both Ministers and the Department for the Annual Report for 1981. Once again, it is a massive undertaking and reflects the incredible range and responsibilities of a very large Department. There are so many aspects I would like to comment on, but time will simply not allow. There are, however, two in particular which are hardly highlighted— they are almost mentioned in passing—but represent a major shift in policy. I am sure the hon. member for Virginia must be a very troubled man! On page 107 we read that “as from 1982, all school committees may decide on the medium of instruction to be used from Std. III upwards”. When we bear in mind the arguments of the hon. member for Virginia and so many other on his side who have pleaded for “moedertaal” right through until Std. V and Std. VI and, if they could have their way, right through until the people die, and when we bear in mind the 1976 uprising and the subsequent disasters in schools throughout South Africa, this is a very welcome decision indeed. I want to make a forecast. I want to say that you will find that the overwhelming majority of committees will opt for English or Afrikaans as the medium of instruction, after Std. III. Secondly, on page 109, reference is made to the latest regulation of the Joint Matriculation Board, which means that candidates offering a Black first language higher grade will not be obliged to offer both official languages. This is a very significant development, and one which is both sensible and fair, and we certainly welcome it.

I would also like to welcome the recent announcement by the Department which will bring parity to all teachers who have completed three years’ study beyond matriculation. This is a major step in the right direction, and we welcome it.

At first glance, the report records outstanding progress. It is almost a hymn of praise. But, if one sees the report of 1981 against the background of 30 years of neglect and the deep and pressing demands of 1982 and the future in our country, then I want to say to the hon. the Minister that there is absolutely no room whatsoever for complacency. I want to list, by way of illustration, some of the glaring inequalities and needs which cry out for an even greater effort to be made.

Firstly, there is a matter which we have raised on many occasions, and that is the per capita expenditure. In answer to a question I asked earlier in this session, we were told by the Minister that the per capita expenditure, including expenditure of a capital nature, on Black school pupils in the Republic amounted to R176,20. That is the figure I got from the Department. This, of course, is in stark contrast to the amount of more than R1 000 per capita spent on White school pupils. I refer to Question No. 274.

Secondly, Sir, it seems to me that ideological attitudes still continue to override educational needs.

No, that is not true.

The hon. member for Virginia says that is not true, but let me give him a specific illustration of what I mean. I shall back up everything I am trying to say. In answer to a question dated 12 February 1982, as to whether or not this Department had made any representations to the Cape Provincial Administration regarding the use by Black pupils of empty and underutilized school facilities for Whites in rural areas, I was told that “rural areas is an undefined concept”—that is a brilliant statement; it is what one calls a non-answer—and that if I was referring to residential areas, school facilities are provided in own residential areas. This, Sir, despite the fact that the De Lange Report, which after all came into being at the instruction of the hon. the Prime Minister, recommends that empty or underutilized White schools should be used by other races and that provisions of the Group Areas Act should be disregarded. Now I challenge the hon. the Minister and his chief spokesman on that side, the hon. member for Virginia: What is prevailing there—ideology or educational needs?

Common sense. [Interjections.]

Common sense, my eye! Sir, that is nothing more than ideological claptrap. It is not an educational response and it is not a response to the needs which face South Africa, which we all say we are prepared to meet. I would like to know this Minister’s attitude concerning this situation. Is he going to be bound by the continuing remarks of the right wing in that party, or is he going to be influenced by the De Lange Commission, which makes this recommendation?

Let me talk, thirdly, about free stationery. The Department’s policy is to provide free stationery only to schools where compulsory education has been introduced. This means that in 1981 free stationery was provided to a mere 33 000 pupils in the whole of South Africa. This is again in strong contrast to the free stationery provided to all White pupils. Now, I know this is a new venture and I know that improvements have been brought about, but they are simply not being made fast enough. I believe that the people who need it most are the people who are getting it least.

Then, Sir, I want to refer to the Additional Estimates which the House looked at earlier this year, namely the Estimates of Additional Expenditure for the financial year ending 31 March 1982. Unfortunately, the time available for that measure lapsed before we could get to Education and Training, but now I want to ask some questions about it. Under Education and Training, I was quite staggered to discover that there was a decrease of nearly R10 million in the expenditure. Savings were realized by an amount of R1 335 000 in administration and teacher training because vacant and new posts, including teaching posts in respect of—and I emphasize this—basic teacher training and further training, could not be suitably filled or could not be filled at all. What an indictment, when seen against the needs of extensive teacher training. Other savings amounting to more than R7 million were achieved in the pre-primary and primary education and secondary education programmes. These savings were effected, according to the report presented by the Department of Education and Training, by not filling vacant and new teaching posts at primary and secondary level.

There was a corresponding increase because of several urgent services which had to be performed. I believe that what really happened was that these urgent needs, which I am going to refer to in a moment, determined the policy to take money away from the areas I have already referred to, in order to meet them. Now what were these urgent needs? Firstly, the sewage at the University of Fort Hare was in such a poor condition that the university could well be closed down by the Department of Health. That is not my statement; that is the statement made by the Department of Education and Training. How on earth can it get into such a situation? How long does that take to develop, for the Department suddenly to realize that unless they did something about the matter at this major university, the Department of Health, another Government Department, would threaten to close it down? Secondly, there was a serious shortage of accommodation at the University of Zululand, and thirdly, the University of the North had—and again I use the words of the report—for “quite a while” experienced an insufficient supply of water. These are basic facilities required. It seems to me that because of bad planning these pressing problems had to be solved at the expense of such vital areas as teacher training, pre-primary and primary education and secondary education.

Fifthly, Sir, I come to the question of vacancies. In looking at the central organization in the report, I counted 44 vacancies in top posts. How on earth can the Department do its job if there are so many glaring vacancies in almost every department? This is serious, Sir, and I should like the Minister to tell us how it is possible for top posts to be vacant, and to tell us for how long they have been vacant. All we are told is that they were vacant during 1981.

Sixthly, Sir, I want to refer to the drop-out rate. One of the major setbacks facing Black education is that some 58% of Black school starters drop out in the first four years. This is a tragic waste of human resource and financial investment by this Department. The Research Unit for Education Planning at the University of the Free State notes that more than 125 000 Blacks left school without being able to read or write in South Africa and the National States during 1980. It also records that more than 180 000 pupils left school being semi-literate. If one studies the figures in the report on pages 8 to 11, and again on pages 233 and 234, it is clear that the drop-out rate remains unacceptably high, and that the Minister and his Department must give their urgent attention to this very real problem.

In the seventh place, I want to refer to the question of matric results. In another question I put to the hon. the Minister during this session, I was told that of the 42 617 pupils who wrote Std. VIII, only 26 894 passed. In Std. X 14 420 entered, but only 8 154 passed. Of all those who wrote, only just over 2 000 qualified for university entrance. In another question, I was informed that 48 571 entered for the National Senior Certificate exemption in 1981. Of these 48 571, only 25 963 passed. 22 608 failed, and only 6 096 obtained matriculation exemption. This is not good enough, Sir, in terms of the Department’s own commitment and in terms of the Government’s own statements.

Then, Sir, we come to the question of tertiary education. Again and again statements are made at every level ad nauseam, from Government and Opposition, to the effect that we are in desperate need of well-trained people in South Africa, but despite the background of these overwhelming needs, universities and technikons remain segregated. Here again we have a case of ideological considerations outweighing educational and economic needs. Only last year, the Vista University Bill was passed, which restricts it in the main to Black students only.

Then, Sir, we come to teacher training. Nearly 250 000 Black teachers will have to be trained by the year 2020. Yet, when I asked a question of the Minister this session, whether any new teacher training institutions for Blacks were established by his Department in 1981, the short answer was, no. In the same question, I was told that the total number of pupils enrolled at teacher training institutions totalled a mere 14 342. We are only beginning to scratch the surface. And then we must bear in mind that of the 64 858 Black teachers, 50 486 have a junior certificate or less, and that of that number, more than 10 000 have no teaching qualification at all. Despite all the attempts being made by the Department—and there have been many improvements—we have to tackle this problem with a great deal more imagination, more money and more urgency.

It is not surprising then, when one bears in mind not only the disadvantaged nature of the Black child’s home and the inadequate staff and facilities, that our schools are producing so many school leavers who lack functional competence in both spoken and written communication. I want to put it to the Minister that the Department will have to devise methods by which Black school leavers will be given what I would call “bridging” educational opportunities so that they are more ready to take their place both at university, training college and in the commercial and industrial sector.

In the few minutes remaining to me, I want to deal with only two other matters. Firstly, I would like the hon. the Minister to make a statement about the situation at the Fort Hare University. I know that this falls within the Ciskei, but we are there on an agency basis, and I would like to know what our relationship is there now, what links and what responsibilities we have, and whether the perpetual rumours and press reports of over-zealous police action are true, and what the chances are for the return to normality of that campus. This place has been a hotbed, as the hon. the Minister knows, for years. I should like to know what the present status is.

The situation is almost normal.

That is good.

Finally, I would like some information on a very serious matter. I may say that my information on this matter is sketchy. It is information which was given to me by some Black parents, a couple of teachers and a couple of press reports. I do not know how much truth there lies in them, but I regard this as serious. I refer to certain youth camps which are apparently organized for Black pupils who fall under this Department by, amongst others, the West Cape Administration Board and the Defence Force’s Civic Action Wing. I want to know from the hon. the Minister what the Defence Force’s involvement is, why they are involved at all, what the objectives are, to what extent these camps are held in different parts of the country, and whether this is done in direct consultation with his Department. Further, I want to know whether the principals and teachers of the schools are fully consulted and whether they participate, and whether parents have given their approval. I hope the Minister can give a full and satisfactory reply to these and other questions, for if not, then I believe a full-scale inquiry is called for, which will involve the Department, teachers and parents, so as to establish the motivation for the camps, the involvement of the military and the methods and content used by the organizers. Blacks have been subjected to indoctrination for so long that it is not surprising that there is deep-rooted suspicion concerning these camps, and I believe it must be resolved at the highest level.

Mr. Chairman, before reaching to what the hon. member for Pinelands said, allow me to extend a warm welcome from this side of the House to the hon. the Minister who is present here. This additional responsibility which has been placed on his shoulders has necessarily increased his burden. We believe that the hon. the Minister is capable of dealing with this greater responsibility and of shouldering this additional workload. However, for the sake of the department and the education of the Blacks in South Africa, I want to express the hope that a successor will be appointed in a permanent capacity as soon as practicable in this regard.

Mr. Chairman, allow me too to refer on this occasion to the former Director-General of this department, Mr. Rousseau. Mr. Rousseau was appointed to another senior post in the State administration and he left the Department of Education and Training at the end of last month. I should like to join the hon. member for Pinelands in congratulating and thanking Mr. Rousseau. However, we on this side of the House do not merely wish to congratulate Mr. Rousseau on his appointment to his new post and his new office; we also wish to thank him for the enthusiasm and the positive attitude he displayed in the service of Black education from 1942. During this period of 40 years he strove continuously to bring education to the Black peoples of South Africa. The achievements which he and his department attained are reflected in this year’s annual report, which I should like to refer to at a later stage in my speech. Neither do I think that we are the only ones who would wish to express our gratitude in this regard. I am sure that the leaders in education and the community leaders of the Blacks would like to associate themselves with these expressions of thanks. What he did for Black education, and with it for upliftment generally, will later be proved by history and will stand as a memorial to his dedication to the task which he fulfilled.

In addition, we should also like to add our own congratulations to those expressed by the hon. member for Pinelands to Dr. Fourie on his appointment as the new Director General of this department. We wish to assure him of our wholehearted co-operation. We believe and trust that he will enjoy working as Director-General in this department.

The hon. member for Pinelands once again sang his same old song. We have become accustomed to that. We had once again to listen to his old, worn-out plea for one department for all education in South Africa. That argument is old and hackneyed. [Interjections.] He and his party apparently want this, but our question is: Do the Blacks want it? The Official Opposition has never been able to give us an adequate reply to that question.

No, that is not true.

It is true. The statements of both present and former educationists in Black education prove that this is the case.

But what did Atasa have to say this year?

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member wants to quote Atasa. The question is whether the majority of Blacks in South Africa want this. That is the crux of the matter. The second question which has to be answered is whether it is educationally acceptable that education be under one department …

Yes, of course.

… and that it be controlled under one structure.

Yes, the De Lange Commission says so.

If the hon. member says “yes” then he must also accept the historical fact that at present there is no equality in the education systems. Does he wish to dump Black education under one structure together with White education so that they will continue to be at a disadvantage which is a fact which we acknowledge?

No! [Interjections.]

Sir, we are not prepared to do that. Then the hon. member cannot argue that we should include all education under one department.

Why not?

If the hon. member will listen he will realize what our standpoint is in this respect. We on this side of the House accept the principle of equal education for all in this country. [Interjections.] We have no argument with that. We have never adopted the attitude of claiming a kind of super education for Whites which we deny other population groups in South Africa.

Not even Dr. Verwoerd?

Order! I cannot allow a dialogue to take place across the floor of the House. I shall be pleased if the hon. member for Pinelands will abide by that. The hon. member may proceed.

It would be ideal if we had a situation where there was complete parity in respect of education. I believe that that would certainly be a happy state of affairs, but we are aware, and we have often debated this, that a traditional backlog has been built up which we shall have to remove. I want to quote the hon. the Prime Minister in this regard. On 5 May 1980 he had the following to say—

Mr. Chairman, this is the crux of the problem. This is the core around which the discussion should revolve. Allow me to tell the hon. member for Pinelands that the Afrikaner is certainly in a position to judge in this regard and perhaps to consider this problem with a greater measure of understanding because he also had a traditional backlog at one stage during this process. That is why I want to assure him that we on this side of the House have a great deal more understanding for this problem than he may imagine. That is also why the National Party has made this problem its own. This is in fact the case, and I challenge the Official Opposition to try to prove that there is not at least a willingness on the part of the Government to provide each population group with all the education possible.

Now, Mr. Chairman, I come to the HSRC report, the De Lange report, to which the hon. member for Pinelands referred. I want to quote from page 211. It reads—

We do not dispute this statement. We on this side of the House have never advocated inequality in education purely on the basis of race or colour.

But you have!

On the contrary, the Government is in the process of giving education, Black education as well, the highest possible priority. However, in attaining any ideal or eventual goal, there are financial limitations which have an inhibiting effect and which have to be taken into account.

Sir, let us consider for a moment the budget itself, the realities of the expenditure of rands and cents in respect of Black education. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I rise to give the hon. member the opportunity to complete his speech.

I thank the hon. Chief Whip of the official Opposition for this concession. I just want to refer to the figures in respect of expenditure on education from which capital expenditure and costs in respect of universities have been excluded.

In 1980-’81 the total expenditure was R298 million. In the past year, R414 million was spent in this regard. This represents an increase of R100 million in one year in respect of the normal expenditure on Black education. This increase is more than the total expenditure 10 years ago in respect of Black education. Very well, now hon. members may argue and say that we made a mistake 10 years ago by not spending more. We may argue about this and perhaps we could debate it.

[Inaudible.]

Mr. Chairman, if that hon. member on that side of the House will keep his mouth shut for a moment and not say very much later when he makes his speech, perhaps everyone on this Committee will benefit.

A further factor we have to take into account if we wish to implement equal education, is that there has recently been a pupil explosion, an increase in the number of pupils at school. I should like to congratulate the department once again on an extremely comprehensive and good annual report. This document which is placed at our disposal annually, is of great value indeed to the student of education and we wish to express our gratitude for it once again. When we look at the statistics in the annual report, it is true that those without courage will throw their hands in the air and surrender completely. We see that in 1962 there were 1 600 000 Black pupils at school and that in 1982 there were 3 700 000 Black pupils at school. This represents an increase in the Black school population of more than 2 million pupils in a short period of 20 years.

The staff position is even more illuminating in this regard. In 1962 there were 28 849 teachers and in 1981 there were 83 819. This represents an increase over this period of 55 000 teachers. Sir, this is probably one of the fundamental problems we shall have to face. A subsequent speaker on this side of the House will deal with this in greater detail. However, I want to state that in future the training of teachers will have to be given very much more attention. Here I want to agree with the hon. member for Pinelands. It is simply not good enough to have a semi-trained Black teaching body any longer.

This brings me to the Vista University. Mr. Chairman, allow me at the outset to convey our heartiest congratulations on behalf of this side of the House to Prof. Crous on his appointment as Rector of this university. Acceptance of this post necessarily presents great challenges, but we have no doubt that Prof. Crous is fully capable and equipped to accept and meet these challenges. We should like to wish him everything of the very best. Sir, we also understand that the basic staff as well as the registrar of Vista have already been appointed. The council of the university has been appointed and has already been announced. This council is privileged to include four present rectors of universities. It is an illustrious council and we believe that it will launch this university with a great deal of enthusiasm. The education department has already been organized and I am told that a professor of education has already been appointed. I see it as the task of Vista first and foremost to concern itself with the training and advanced training of teachers. Sir, it is essential that the education department give its immediate and urgent attention to this. However, this is not the only task of the university. A few years ago during the discussion on another Vote when I advocated the active training of people of colour to accept white collar jobs and administrative posts in their own administration, the hon. member—unfortunately he is not present now—for Langlaagte was unhappy about it. I want to reiterate that we will be making a mistake if we do not give people of colour, and here I mean more specifically Blacks, the opportunity of preparing themselves academically in order to enable them eventually to do the sophisticated work which is at present being done by Whites in their own areas, their own States. Sir, we simply cannot keep people of colour out of these senior posts by means of obstructionist politics in order to offer our Whites a so-called entrenchment. Such an entrenchment may cause us to bury ourselves. That is why I should like to see a larger growth the number of students at universities, technikons and technical schools. Sir, Black technicians will have to become available very rapidly in order to serve their own people.

I want to refer briefly to the recent St. X examinations. It is true that there were problems in this regard. Firstly, I think it is necessary to thank the Department for the way in which it dealt with this difficult matter. When the leakage of certain examination papers became known, it was decided immediately that certain steps should be taken. The first logical reaction was probably that the examination should be re-written. Apart from the prohibitive expense this would entail, the question immediately arose as to how many candidates had been involved and how many subjects had been affected by this leakage. A further problem was obviously the administrative one of reprinting and re-writing the examination papers, the marking of the papers and the processing of the marks. This would have meant that students could not be accepted for admission to universities and that for an additional year they would not be entitled to the qualifications they had earned. With the aid of the examiners and the external moderators appointed by the department the obvious irregularities that were present would be determined. Where such an irregularity could be identified, the particular subject was re-written in the school or the region. Furthermore, the premise was adopted that individual candidates were not guilty in this regard, and the re-writing could take place without any problems. The Joint Matriculation Board also satisfied itself that fixed requirements had been met and did not summarily accept the original results. These unfortunate events were dealt with by the department in a highly professional manner and we wish to thank them for it.

I want to conclude by referring to another professional standpoint which the department has adopted. It is well-founded not only professionally but also educationally. Sir, I am referring here to the age limit which has been introduced for the various periods of instruction. The maximum age for the primary school has now been fixed at 16 years and for Std. X for 20 years. However, this age limit does not apply to bona fide failures. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Gezina will pardon me if I do not react to what he said. Nor do I think I shall have time today to criticize the hon. the Minister, since I am in the unique position which very rarely occurs in the history of South Africa of having to praise the former Minister from the Opposition benches for everything he did while he was in this department. [Interjections.] However, I do not wish to make use of that opportunity, since I want rather to pay tribute to this department today in respect of what it does and to everyone involved in it.

Mr. Chairman, the first statement I want to make is that from my experience of the administration of South Africa, I do not have the least doubt—in fact I am absolutely convinced—that as far as results are concerned, there is no department to beat it. In South Africa, this department is the one which, if one judges it on the function for which it was established, has produced the most results.

[Inaudible.]

No, Sir, it is not because I was there. It is simply a fact. No other department has produced the results which this department has. I should just like to mention the fact that 10 years ago the budget of this department was R27 million. It is now R475 million. This is as far as growth is concerned. As far as pupils are concerned, the task for which it was established is the following: When the State took over this function there were at the time 1 million Black children at school in South Africa. In this same sphere, the number is now approaching 6 million. This is phenomenal growth. Apart from this, the annual increase in the number of Black pupils in that sphere is as much as for the entire Cape Education Department; in other words the annual increase in the number of Black pupils is equivalent to the total number of pupils under the Cape Education Department. This is the task of this department in conjunction with the 10 other Black education departments. Sir, this department has done well.

I should also like to say that the 2½ years I spent in this department were the best years of my life because one is dealing here on the one hand with people who are conscious of their vocation. There is not one official in this department who did not choose to go there of his own accord. Each had a choice. Most of them began in other departments but because they felt the need to do so, they came to this department of their own free will. On the one hand one has this sense of vocation while on the other hand one has people who are in the process of developing and who are struggling to progress and to find a place in the sun. That is why we have had these results.

I should also like to congratulate the officials of this department on what they have done over the years and to thank them for the pleasant time I spent with them. The experience I gained in being able to work with people like that was invaluable. I should like heartily to congratulate Dr. Fourie, who has been appointed Director-General. He deserves it. He is equipped for it. He has a fantastic team of people working with him. He has what it takes to meet the challenge of the future and achieve great things. I want to pay particular tribute to Mr. Rousseau, the retiring Director-General, who has done outstanding work in this department over the past few years under extremely difficult circumstances. He was able to do so because he was dedicated, because he was inspired, because he believed in what he was doing. He was born at a mission station outside South Africa. As a young man he had to decide whether he was going to become a missionary or a teacher. He realized that as a teacher he would perhaps be in a better position to do more than he as a missionary. That is why I should like to say that we were dealing here with a remarkable man who has done the Black people of South Africa an extraordinary service. I think his name will always have a place of honour in the history of Black education.

Mr. Chairman, I should also like to say that Black people have come to realize one thing. I do not only wish to pay tribute to the officials; I also want to thank the members of the Council for Education and Training and to wish them well in what they are doing, as well as the teachers, the parents and all the pupils who are inspired and who are performing a great task. I want to wish them success and good luck in the years ahead.

It is true that an education system has not yet been developed in Africa which is characteristic of the people of Africa, which has its roots in the culture of the people of Africa. Mr. Chairman, I believe—and I am being quite genuine when I say this—that the people of Africa will only attain the same quality of education as the rest of the world when that system of education is developed by themselves to enable them also to compete with the rest of the world on an equal basis as far as this, too, is concerned, and that they should not use other people’s methods and means to develop themselves. No one nation can perform that function for another. Each has to do so for itself. The best thing of all is that I think the Black people realize this. They realize that it is the function of each. However, they can be sure that the Whites of South Africa are their friends and allies in this regard. The Whites cannot develop the system for them; they can only assist them. That is why the large number of people who are inspired by this ideal is one of the finest testimonials to the Whites of South Africa in what they are doing on this continent. That is why I am convinced that the Government would be making a grave mistake if it were to hearken to the plea of the hon. member for Pine-lands, for whom I have also gained respect over the years. However, his views are erroneous. The Government would be making a mistake if they were to accede to his pleas that there should be one department, because I am convinced that if Africa is going to develop its own education system, it will take place here in South Africa. I think it is already taking place. The greatest blow to that development will be for the Government to give in and establish one department for the various population groups.

Should it not simply be one education system?

One education system would be completely wrong. One needs more than one education system because one is dealing here with more than one culture and with more than one kind of person. That is why I want to tell you on our part, Sir, that we do not make any secret at all of the fact that in future we are going to advocate national education. We shall advocate this in South Africa in an unequivocal way. I want to go further and say that the Government will be making another mistake if they appoint one Minister of Education. That will be a grave mistake because we have to deal here with a tremendous task. The task is not so much the administrative work of the office as it is liaison among the various other departments serving the same pupils as this department and among which there is a tremendous amount of interaction throughout South Africa. That is why I think it would be a fatal mistake if the Government were to decide not to appoint a Minister for this department, because this is our greatest task in the sphere of education. Not only do we have the most people but we also have the unique task of developing an education system. However, this has to take place in co-operation with the other departments, the departments of the national States and the independent States which already exist. In this respect I think that there is a remarkable effort taking place in South Africa where one has the people of the Third World who want to make progress, to develop. In my dealings with Black parents I found that there was one thing which was obvious to them and which they understood and that was when one told them that we Afrikaners were also poor and downtrodden at one stage but that our forefathers realized that the future lay in education, and that their future did too. [Interjection.] Yes, and they realize that.

In a separate department?

Yes, a separate department because their future will not be served by one education department.

[Inaudible.]

I beg your pardon?

Order!

That is why this is the one thing that these people realize. I also want to say that one has also to deal with elements that are trying to exploit innocent children, to incite them to destroy their own education facilities thereby not fulfilling that ideal. That is why my plea is that the Government will not yield to the temptation and the pleas that there should be one department and that there should be one Minister because here in South Africa an education system for the people of Africa is developing which will eventually find its echo outside South Africa as well. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, now that the hon. member for Lichtenburg has also made his speech, I find myself in a strange position. The fact is that since the Department of Education and Training became a separate portfolio, I have been chairman of the Education and Training study group of the National Party and over the years I have of course worked very closely with the hon. member for Lichtenburg. Permit me, Sir, to place on record at this stage that I appreciate very much the way in which we were able to work together, as well as the exceptional disposition displayed by this former hon. Minister towards me personally as well as towards this group. Permit me, too, to say here and now that I praise him for the exceptional work which he, too, did in this Department for the two and a half years that he was privileged to build up Black education, a matter which was very close to his heart.

I should like to react to a few remarks by the hon. member for Pinelands. In the course of my contribution during this debate I shall return to several of the matters. At this point I should like to react immediately to the statement by the hon. member for Pinelands that he was pleased to note on page 107 of the report that mother-tongue education is now being adopted from Std. III. If my memory serves, this hon. member was a member of the Select Committee when we placed the new Black Education Act on the Statute Book in 1979. The hon. member knows—he should not be ashamed, because it can happen to us all—that one of the sections reads that the principle of mother-tongue tuition will apply up to and including Std. II, but that subsequently that principle may be departed from in accordance with the wishes of the parents. Probably the hon. member has merely forgotten this. This is a matter which was put to rights as long ago as 1979.

What did I forget?

What appears in the Act. [Interjection.] However, I want to proceed. This hon. member is not going to put me off my stroke again. At the time he talked about per capita expenditure. This is a debating point which we have debated literally for hours over the years. It is indeed true that there is a tremendous difference in the per capita expenditure, but it is equally true that the per capita expenditure only in respect of Black people has increased dramatically in recent years. I calculate that the per capita expenditure at the present moment, capital expenditure excluded, is R140 per Black scholar, and when one includes the capital expenditure, R196 per Black scholar. Now compare this with 5 years ago. If he does so, the hon. member for Pinelands will concede that there is a dramatic improvement in this regard. Surely there are very good reasons why one cannot just draw a per se unqualified comparison between the per capita expenditure of the Black people on the one hand and that of the Whites on the other. The hon. member knows that just as well as I do and I am not going to waste my time at this point discussing the matter with him further. At the moment the educational systems differ drastically, largely because Black education is still, in the main, centred lower down, while White education is centred higher up. Therefore I am not going to discuss the matter further.

Mr. Chairman, permit me to make two assertions here and now. I am profoundly aware of the tremendous task of and challenge to this side of the House in respect of Black education. It is a mighty task. However, I wish to add at once that notwithstanding that tremendous challenge, the attainment of this ideal of Black education must never lead to the stagnation or deterioration of White education.

But I accept that.

I am merely making the point, because it is of the utmost importance. Due to its rapid development, this country also needs the future expertise of the Whites and we should also exploit that potential to the full without, on the other hand, neglecting the development of Black education. We must say this to each other.

There is a second matter I want to mention, Sir, before I proceed. This is that the hon. member for Pinelands should now accept that the broad educational policy in respect of Whites, Coloureds and Asians of this side of the House is not politically infiltrated and initiated. The policy of this side of the House is based on sound educational reasons.

No.

The hon. member can disagree with me; it is his right.

Yes, we shall.

It is based on sound educational reasons and when hon. members check up in Hansard on my speeches and those of many of my colleagues in the past, they will notice how we quoted various educationalists the whole world over to confirm this view of ours. However, the Opposition are free to drag politics into education if they want to. We on this side of the House, however, say that there are specific educational views, points of departure and principles and that we shall proceed on that basis to provide the best for all the various education groups. This is how the hon. member for Lichtenburg brilliantly summarized in a few words in this House, at this stage too, what the points of departure of this side of the House were and still are. I think this is the only sound point of departure.

It will change.

To proceed, I want to react briefly to what the hon. member said with regard to a single Ministry and a single Department of Education. The hon. member put his foot in it. He was very clever to ask what Atasa has said while the hon. member for Gezina was busy.

Yes.

I have also read Atasa and I am going to quote from it today to substantiate my point of view, because I am afraid that the hon. member for Pinelands is sometimes inclined to read something and to take something out of it—it is his right—to defend his viewpoint. However, I now want to take the other side. Let me say first of all, Sir, that the Government’s preliminary memorandum must be read in conjunction with the HSRC report. It is of course true that the HSRC report recommends only a single Ministry and a single Department. In addition, however, the Government has come forward with its views and its provisional memorandum, based on its views, in which it has indicated very clearly that it, too, bases those views on basic educational reasons, but in addition—and on that we must agree to differ—that the educational system also forms part of the political structure. The hon. member would be able to accuse me on that basis that this is politics. No, Sir, it is not petty politics. This is the case in any country in the world. That is why the points of departure are Christian education, a broad national character, mother-tongue tuition and then—and this is very important—the retention of the right to self-determination. This is not discrimination. This is actually attention, assistance and recognition of the rights of other population groups, rights equivalent to those we demand for ourselves. Separate residential areas and separate schools flow from that. There is therefore no question of this having to do with political gain.

I now come to Atasa. It is a fact that Atasa, with its 60 000 members, propagates one Ministry and department of education. This is so. However, Atasa also went further and said that it endorsed every one of the eleven principles of the De Lange report. That is precisely what the Government has done. However, the Government endorses them subject to particular standpoints. I now want to go further. What did Atasa do? Has Atasa not also said that it accepts every one of the eleven principles, subject to particular standpoints? Yes it did, and I shall read it to you. Atasa said—

Now we go further—

Mr. Chairman, is this not exactly similar to what this side of the House is doing? Yes, it is exactly similar to what this side of the House is doing by saying that it endorses particular points of approach and those eleven principles. Atasa says the same. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Virginia will excuse me if I do not carry on with his longstanding serial difference with regard to the hon. member for Pinelands. There is lots of time for that, and they will have lots of time to tell stories about what happened on the Select Committee.

I would like to associate the NRP with the remarks made about the outgoing Director General, Mr. Rousseau. There is no question that Mr. Rousseau, during his period of office, was responsible for an enormous increase in the mobility and drive in Black education, as well as an enormous increase in the amount of attention given to Black education. He, together with his staff, spearheaded an enormous improvement in the situation, as the hon. member for Lichtenburg outlined very adequately.

I would also like to associate members of this party with the good wishes of the other hon. members to the incoming Director General, Dr. Fourie. I am quite certain that, with the team that he has and with the aims that the Department has set itself, we shall be hearing a great deal about his exploits and the further improvement in the situation in Black education.

I would like to deal with an area which we still regard as not exactly a black hole, but something akin to that. Despite all this tremendous improvement, the amount of money spent, the attention paid to the improvement in the qualifications of teachers and the general attempts to uplift education and achieve a situation of parity in educations for the different groups in South Africa, there is an area in which there is definite void. This area relates to the rural farm workers, his access to secondary school educational institutions and the effective training of that farm worker, particularly in view of the fact that we have the spotlight now turned on the role that agriculture is playing in providing adequate employment opportunities. We have talked about decentralization and deconcentration, a phase which the country is entering in the industrial and commercial world. There is also the inquiry by the Manpower Commission into domestic and agricultural workers. There is no question that the agricultural industry is going to have to play a far greater role in South Africa’s ability to meet the challenge of providing employment opportunities. Equally so— I do not want to touch on the mealie price and the problems that housewives are having with it—we are going to have to get ourselves really jacked up in the productivity field so that we shall be able to produce more in order to compete on the overseas’ markets. This is where the real way out lies for South African employment, namely to increase our exports of agricultural products. To do this, we need far greater expertise, far better training and far greater input from the side of the agricultural worker.

Coming back to the question of the education available to rural Blacks in this country, I think all the hon. members in this House today will agree with me that, despite the very good record of farm schools, they are at a distinct disadvantage to their counterparts in the towns and villages, where schools are built and facilities are provided for the children and where naturally far more money is spent, because there is a far greater concentration of population. The farm school system, whilst it has a tremendous record and has done a great job, …

Thanks to the farmers.

… it certainly has not had the backing and the sort of spotlight that the normal school system has enjoyed. I want to say to the hon. the Minister that this is an area to which his Department must now turn and really must have a good look at how we are going to meet the challenge of providing a better level of training for the rural Blacks in this country by means of secondary education facilities that will be accessible to them. I make a point of this, because the real scenario in and around the farm school is that they attend the farm school, but the moment they achieve the highest standard, whether it is Std. 5, Std. 4, Std. 3 or whatever the case may be in that particular area, there comes a tremendous drop in attendance. Many of them cannot afford to send their children away. Many of them have to scratch around to try and find a relative to stay with or some form of boarding facility quite some distance away from their homes. Then they go into the bigger league of schools where uniforms are required and where there is a greater standardization in the community schools in the various villages and towns. The rural people are therefore put to tremendous disadvantage and the educational process literally falls off when they leave the farm schools. This is obviously not a problem which is going to be easily solved. However, I would like to suggest, as an interim measure, that the Department seriously consider the extension of the farm schools. The Department has been a bit rigid about this. Somehow there is a block somewhere; may be there is a principle involved in the educational aspect, but to try and get a Std. VI or Std. VII child into a farm school situation, is a tremendous task and I think we are going to have to bend the principles and the regulations temporarily in order to achieve some form of continuity for the farm child so that he does in fact have at least some access to education. It might not be the perfect answer and the farm child might not get the same quality that he is going to get in the better State schools, but at least he will get something where at present he simply falls out all together.

In this technological age and in respect of the whole manpower concept, the concept of meeting the challenge between now and the year 2000, the farm child is at an immediate disadvantage if he goes into commerce or the industry, because he cannot be trained technically.

A particular area to which I would like the Department to give serious consideration, is the question of agricultural high schools. Here we have a field which is ideal for the rural community. The farm children are brought up in that sort of atmosphere. These schools are a most effective form of educational upbringing. I think all the hon. members in the House will know about schools like the one at Mooi River, Tweespruit and Marlow at Cradock. There are also certain other agricultural high schools. These institutions have a tremendously high standard of practical and theoretical agricultural training. The boys, who are naturally Whites at this stage and who come from those schools are very, very well thought of and they have an ability which is well-known in the farming world.

As it is in farming in general, the way of getting into the agricultural sphere, is that you are bom on that property and you simply carry on there after your normal education, or you attend an agricultural high school or college or maybe go to university.

To the Black man there is a tremendous break in that cycle. If we could institute, through the hon. the Minister’s Department, the system of agricultural high schools as one of the ways of bridging this gap in the availability and accessibility of secondary education, we would be doing a good thing. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, it is a pleasure to follow on the hon. member for King William’s Town, and I share his sentiments with regard to how much leeway the child attending a farm school, the Black child, has to make up. We believe that it is definitely possible for plans to be devised in due course so as to meet the needs of these people, about which we cannot disagree.

The Government, by its acceptance of the first principle of the report of the HSRC, which states that the State should purposefully strive for equal educational opportunities, including equal educational standards for each inhabitant, irrespective of race or colour, creed or sex, the Government has committed itself, inter alia, to upgrading and improving the standard of teacher training of Black people, because this is one of the prerequisite methods for raising the educational standards to ensure equal standards for that population group. The Department of Education and Training, in spite of tremendous leeways to be made up, has accepted this challenge with exemplary zeal and enthusiasm and has already achieved spectacular results, particularly by means of the application of certain methods. Firstly, there is the raising of the requirements for admission to the teaching profession. This has been rendered possible in consequence of the larger numbers of Std. X pupils who are at present completing their studies. It is now possible to make a senior certificate and professional post-school training for a period of three years the minimum requirements for all teachers’ courses as from this year. With the introduction of this minimum requirement in teacher training, Black education will now be on a par with that of Whites, Coloureds and Indians. A second point is the increase in the number of colleges. This is intended to encourage and promote teacher training further.

In consequence of the tremendous increase in the enrolment of Black pupils, brought about, inter alia, by the introduction of compulsory education in a large number of schools and by the need to improve the teacher-pupil ratio, the Department has had to make provision for the erection of additional teachers’ training colleges. This year the training of teachers also commenced on the East Rand, in the building of the St. Anthony Centre. Two new colleges were opened this year, one near Pietermaritzburg and one near Fort Beaufort. Each of the two colleges is capable of accommodating more than 1 000 students. New buildings are also being planned for the colleges near Vereeniging and Kroonstad. At present there are 35 teachers’ training colleges in the Republic for the Black population. Of these colleges 27 are in the National States and eight are under the direct control of the Department of Education and Training. The standard of teacher training has further been enhanced by the introduction of greater differentiation of training courses. New courses were introduced. At Mabopane Technikon a teachers’ training course for, inter alia, technical subjects was introduced which could be of tremendous significance to the further development of technical education amongst Black people. Moreover, a course for specializing in, for example, physical education was introduced in this way. In addition study opportunities for working teachers were also increased. The Department is paying special attention to the creation of opportunities for working teachers to improve their academic and professional qualifications. For example, teachers who still do not have a senior certificate are being afforded the opportunity of obtaining the certificate on a part-time basis at centres for adult education. In addition a programme for further professional training was launched this year. An in-service training programme in the form of centralized in-service training at the departmental centre in Mamelodi near Pretoria and decentralized in-service training in the various regions and circles is being intensively pursued. During 1981 the attendance figures relating to these in-service training courses were 21 400 for primary schools and 6 000 for secondary schools.

In addition people are being encouraged to follow teachers’ training courses by availing themselves of board and lodging facilities offered at five colleges under the control of the Department and at 20 colleges in the National States as well as of the large amount made available in the form of bursaries for people who want to obtain teaching qualifications.

The Government has also committed itself to ensuring, a part from equal educational standards, salary parity between White and Black teachers. A milestone was reached in the history of Black education with the payment of equal salaries for all Black teachers with three years’ training after Std. X. There is a very close interaction between the training of teachers and parity of salaries. After all, it goes without saying that one can only have parity when training is of the same quality.

Last year parity was introduced into post levels two to six, those of principals, vice-principals and heads of departments, on condition that their qualifications fell into category C, i.e. three years’ training or more after matric. As from 1 April 1982, Black teachers in post level 1 earn the same as their White colleagues provided they have the minimum qualification of matric and three years’ training after matric. Although there were only 2 000 teachers in this group this year who earned these equal salaries, it is nevertheless proof of the tremendous progress which has been made.

The raising of the required educational qualification amongst Black people ensures that more and more Black teachers will reach parity with their White colleagues. It is interesting to take cognizance of the figures. In 1974 Black teachers on average received 38% of the salaries of their White colleagues. This was increased to 58% in 1977, to 68% in 1978 and 76% in 1980.

When we compare this percentage received by the Blacks to the average income of the White teachers, however, we must always have regard to what the qualifications of the Black teacher were as compared to those of his White colleague.

By leaving no stone unturned in an effort to raise the standard of the education for Black people by means of raising the training qualifications and by making these higher training qualifications a condition for salary parity, the Department is indeed succeeding in establishing a well-trained, satisfied and happy Black teaching profession.

Mr. Chairman, I just want to say that in general I associate myself with the positive remarks made by the hon. member for Kimberley North in connection with the progress made in recent times in respect of the various aspects which had been mentioned here. One is aware of that progress.

Before elaborating on that aspect, I just want to associate myself with what was said by my colleague, the hon. member for Pine-lands. I also want to express my appreciation for the report which is at our disposal, and I want to congratulate the new Director-General, Dr. Fourie, on his appointment. I want to express the sincere hope and expectation that my personal relationship with him will be as cordial and frank as my relationship with his predecessor, Mr. Rousseau, was. I want to express the same view in respect of the new Minister of Education and Training. I do not know for how long he will remain in this post, but I just want to say that for as long as he may occupy that post, I hope that I shall enjoy the same cordial co-operation from him as I enjoyed from his predecessor. Although the hon. the Minister’s predecessor and I definitely differed fundamentally in respect of philosophy and policy, our relationship was always one of true cordiality and goodwill. I think this will probably continue.

As regards the views of the hon. member for Kimberley North and the hon. member for Virginia on the progress which has been made in connection with the per capita expenditure for Black children as well as the matter of parity, I just want to say that we are aware of these things. One naturally has appreciation for this progress. I think hon. members will concede that what is at issue is the question whether progress in the past could not have been more rapid.

We are looking to the future.

In this regard we can differ on the nature of the case, and in a certain sense this is a fruitless kind of debate. We are looking to the future now. As far as the future is concerned, I want to say that it now depends on the rate at which we are going to achieve these things. I am referring to the parity of salaries, the parity of the quality of training and the creation of equal educational opportunities as recommended by the De Lange Commission and as basically accepted by the Government. Now hon. members will realize that it is our task as the official Opposition constantly to take note of those points and to say: “We believe that the provision of these things should definitely be accorded a greater measure of financial priority than is at present the case.” Surely we have every right to do so.

Mr. Chairman, I want to confine myself more particularly to certain aspects concerning universities. My other colleagues will deal with other aspects. I want to come back to a few points. My colleague the hon. member for Pinelands questioned the hon. the Minister about the position at Fort Hare. We are naturally concerned about it. However, we are aware of the latest developments this morning.

What really interests me, is the exact obligations and responsibilities which the South African Government, through the Department of Education and Training, has in respect of the University of Fort Hare. It may give rise to an awkward situation if the Government of the Republic of South Africa, through its Department of Education and Training, can be held responsible for the control over the university but ultimately has no further control over matters such as the arrest of students, etc., which is in progress on and around the campus. Hon. members will concede this point to me. I just want to draw the attention to the possible dilemma which may arise in this regard. I should like to hear more about this from the hon. the Minister.

I think it was with appreciation that we took cognizance of the progress made in respect of Medunsa and in respect of Vista. We opposed the establishment of Vista as a separate institution but now that it has been established we naturally hope that it will progress as rapidly as possible. From the nature of the case Vista cannot meet the real requirements, as we stated in that debate, because as is clearly evident now, the primary object of Vista is to provide working Black teachers and other working Blacks with additional training facilities. I believe that in the Witwatersrand complex there is indeed a need for a separate institution, in other words an institution for Blacks. Vista cannot meet this need. I shall come back to this.

A separate institution?

I shall come back to that later on. Vista cannot satisfy all the needs.

He is gradually beginning to see the light.

I just want to tell the hon. member for Kimberley North that we have never objected to separate institutions as such. What we object to is the compulsory exclusion. [Interjections.] It is the compulsory exclusion. Surely we have never said that there should not be Black schools. I say it is the compulsory exclusion of people to which we object. This is what is at issue.

[Inaudible.]

Nothing which has been said so far this afternoon by any of the hon. members, has refuted the fact that there is a need for a central point of control, a single Ministry. Honestly, not one of the arguments advanced here was conclusive in this regard. I just want to say this: What the hon. members on that side of this House do not understand, is the importance of symbols to the Black man. For as long as we insist so dogmatically on this point that we cannot under any circumstances conceive of a single Ministry of Education, for so long will many Blacks continue to regard it as a sign of the compulsory subservience in which we place them.

For as long as you tell them that.

I am simply saying that we cannot deny the importance of the symbolism and the recognition, through symbolism, of the dignity of man.

[Inaudible.]

I did not interrupt that hon. member when he was speaking.

Mr. Chairman, I want to say that we have taken cognizance of the increase in the number of students. Nevertheless, I want to ask what the explanation is for the marked decline in the number of students at the University of Fort Hare. Time does not allow me to go into this matter any further. In addition there has been a marked decline in the number of degrees obtained, including post-graduate qualifications, especially at the University of Fort Hare. I should very much like to know what the explanation is for this alarming development at that university. There may be a very simple explanation for this, but we should nevertheless like to hear it.

I want to proceed by saying that if we look at this field of tertiary education it is alarming to see the small number of students enrolling for post-graduate study at the Black university. If we accept that the need, as far as academic posts at universities are concerned, as well as in respect of other needs in the country, is going to continue growing, I want to say in all sincerity that we shall have to give this matter special attention so as to ascertain in what way we shall be able to encourage a larger number of students to take post-graduate courses at universities. I know there are economic as well as other factors which play a role, but it is a tremendous need which exists. I find it perturbing to see such a very small number of students enrolled at the universities for post-graduate courses.

To this I want to add—unfortunately I do not have much time left—that I do not feel very happy about the fact that the White component of the lecturing staff of our universities still represents such a high percentage of the number of lecturers. This brings me back to the question of the need for better training of students taking post-graduate courses.

In this regard I want to draw attention to the projections of the De Lange Commission in connection with the anticipated increase in the Black university population. I want to point out that this poses a tremendous challenge to the Department, the Government and to all of us as I am of the opinion that on the present basis we shall not be able to meet the needs which will arise if we accept the projections of the Commission. The higher projection of the De Lange Commission—and according to my own calculations this high projection is too low in any event, as is already apparent from last year’s and this year’s numbers—envisages a Black student population of 15 700 at universities, excluding Unisa, in the year 1990. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I want to begin by associating myself with the comments made by the hon. member for Lichtenburg on the dedication of the officials of this department. When one takes into consideration the task which they have to perform, one can have nothing but praise for them. The hon. member Prof. Olivier dealt with the rate at which this department was progressing and with the future of this department. Everything done by this department shows that under the circumstances, with the rapid increase in numbers, that is the best it can possibly do, because there is an absolute explosion and a revolution taking place amongst the Blacks in this field. I think the hon. member must understand the position which has to be dealt with.

I do not have any information concerning the present position at Fort Hare, but it is cause for concern that problems are continuously arising at that university. To us, as to the Opposition, it is cause for concern, and we should like to ascertain what the causes of these problems are. As far as Medunsa is concerned, the hon. member admitted that they opposed it and now he admits—as in the case of many things done by the NP in the past—that they go along with it. As far as Vista University is concerned he admits that teacher training will be provided but he says that it will not meet the needs. Surely it is an enormous need which is being met if one has regard to the future. If one looks at the training of teachers alone, a very large need is being met there—apart from the other universities.

If one looks at this department one must admit—as the hon. member for Lichtenburg said, and he knows a great deal about this matter—that it is an enormous department and that this year, for example, 181 new schools opened their doors. Then one has to admit that the Government and the officials of the department, co-operating for development, regard the problem and their handling thereof as a high priority. We must admit to one another that there is an absolute revolution in education, particularly when one has regard to the fact that up to the end of this century 220 000 teachers will be required, apart from those who are there at the moment, to meet the educational needs. The report of the De Lange Commission says that virtually 4 million Black children are attending school at present and that this number will double or treble by the end of this century. Therefore one can understand the enormity of this task. In considering this we must admit to one another that a serious shortage of skilled manpower exists, as these investigations have proved to us.

Another thing we have to admit to one another is that up to now with our present approach to education, career education has been neglected in this country, as was found by the De Lange Commission. A large and serious need for career-orientated education with regard to the Black people exists, especially in the field of technical education.

The need for manpower in South Africa is critical. In looking at the present attitude of the department, one sees that it is in fact willing to have the emphasis fall on vocational and technical education. If we want to maintain the growth rate of 4,5% in South Africa—only 4,5%—then we have to provide 23 000 skilled workers and 9 500 technicians every year. At present we are training only 10 000 skilled workers and 2 000 technicians. After all, the position is that the largest resource we shall be able to utilize is the Black people in the Black schools.

If we compare South Africa to other countries such as Taiwan and Israel, which are readily comparable to our situation, we see that the children being trained in technical directions in South Africa represents only 11% of the numbers being trained in those directions in those countries.

[Inaudible.]

The hon. the member for Greytown sits behind the hon. the Leader of the Opposition and the hon. member for Pinelands and he is merely “His Master’s Voice”. He pipes up every time …

[Inaudible.]

We must exercise care not to have a disproportionate situation arising between the school and the work situation so as to avoid having unemployment in the ranks of the learned. In the Republic of South Africa there are 24 million people and in Taiwan 17 million people, but in Taiwan there are ten times as many career-orientated persons, or technically trained persons. Their schools are career orientated up to Std. X. We must take care not to cause unemployment as a result of people not being trained, but also not to provide training for which there is no demand. This department is definitely paying attention to this matter. They are conducting a serious investigation into the situation and they concentrate more on secondary technical education, post-school technical education and technikon training. I want to refer briefly—I do not have the time to go into detail now— to the various technical centres. There are secondary technical schools, and with regard to post-school technical education there are the bloc exemption classes, the one-year fulltime courses, the intensive commercial courses at technical colleagues, artisan training and intensive short courses being offered. In addition there is increasing co-operation with the private sector with regard to the erection of technikons so as to promote technical training. I do not want to go into detail but I do want to praise the Department of Education and Training for having spotted this particular direction and for having made provision therefor to the best of their ability. With the available funds and staff the department is moving in the right direction. Under this Department of Education and Training, 1981 was a special year for technical education in particular.

We need to look at one other thing. We should tell one another that this is an enormous department with staff shortages and insufficient trained staff. This problem is mainly caused by the tremendous explosion in the Black population. In 1958 Dr. Verwoerd estimated that the Black population would number 19 million by the year 2000. The Black population already exceeded 19 million in 1976. At the beginning of this century the Black people numbered only 3 million, and it is anticipated that they will number 30 million or more by the end of the century, and consequently one must realize the problem faced by this department. The South African Blacks will find themselves on a road of misery if they do not realize that this uncontrolled increase in their numbers will cause problems for them and for us. This uncontrolled increase in the number of Black people is one of the biggest threats confronting South Africa. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I am pleased that the hon. member for Vryheid is aware of the shortage of skilled workers which threatens to impede our growth rate.

†The Government has accepted its obligations to supply education and training to the Black population of South Africa. It is now nationally agreed that this is not only a moral responsibility, but a practical necessity. That is the requirement of education and training right across the board. We can have the most grandiose economic and constitutional plans, but they will have no chance of success whatsoever if we are unable to fulfil the country’s requirement of technically trained people. The young Black recruit apprentice is scientifically tested before he is taken on. He is someone who has passed Std. 8, has taken mathematics, and the tests will have proved that he has satisfactory mathematical and mechanical ability, but he will often perform much below his potential. His background has been very different from his White contemporary, who is part and parcel of a modern industrial culture. Problem solving, measurement of results, economic discipline and effort, result and reward are concepts that the young White has grown up with. They are something that a young Black not only has to understand, but has to accept. The department is to be congratulated on its forthright handling of this problem. The pre-employment training—sometimes on a full-scale basis at a technical college, as in Port Elizabeth—can go a long way to solving the problem of the young apprentice’s inadequate mathematical preparation and his ignorance of how he will be assessed by his superiors and fellow-workers in the economic world which he is entering. Proof that the Black youngster instinctively understands his problem and that he is prepared to do something about it, is shown by his acceptance of the orientation programmes which are available to him. These are completely voluntary, yet in the last four years, the attendance at these orientation sessions has increased from 12 700 to 23 000 students. At the level of the apprentice this is a problem that is not too serious. It can be rectified and is being successfully handled in the manner described, but when it comes to matriculants who have been selected to attend technikons, the matter is far more important. Firstly the training is much more expensive—at least as expensive as going to university—and secondly one desires a high quality product at the end of a long and sophisticated educational process which blends practical experience with theory. The Federation of Civil Engineering Contractors has shown commendable initiative in dealing with this situation. They have put into operation the so-called Soweto Project. Once again the problem is the same as with apprentices, but at a more sophisticated level. Young diploma students are selected on merit and tests show their mathematical and latent problem solving ability.

Business suspended at 12h45 and resumed at 14h15.

Mr. Chairman, when the Committee adjourned, we were discussing the training of technical students, particularly technikon students, and I was saying that the Federation of Civil Engineering Contractors had a system whereby it identified promising students in the Black townships and then gave these people the opportunity of improving their maths and science background by providing teachers for them and also took them to visit the sites of major construction operations so that they could actually see what they were studying for and what the ultimate end of their study was. This is done to assist students, when they go to technikons to do diploma courses, with their first year, to get into the study and to do well.

I have one further matter to raise in connection with Black technikons and that is the difficulty that one has if one lives in the Cape of sending students to technikons. It is very expensive and not easy to send students to the Transvaal for three or four years to attend technikons. The result is frequently that a promising young Black student might lose out as against a White, Coloured or Indian student, not because of an innate lack of ability that he has, but because he cannot attend a technikon in the Cape. These other race groups have technikons virtually on their doorstep which they can attend. One must ask the question whether the time has not now been reached where our ambition should be to keep technikons full and productively occupied with the best student material that we have, irrespective of what race it belongs to. I am sure that this is absolutely necessary now and something that we should do. Alternatively, one has to consider whether one should not establish additional technikons or a technikon in the Cape. This will obviously be a very expensive thing to do, but if this were done, we should cater for the concentration of the Black population in the Eastern Cape, and the most logical place to establish it would be Port Elizabeth.

In the time available to me there is another matter I must deal with. We cannot concentrate so completely on the needs of the new entrant to the labour force that we forget about the man who is already there— the old hand who may have had no education and little training but has had years of experience at the coal-face and has survived a difficult selection process. One ignores his skills and strength at one’s peril. It will be years before the new entrant to the market is able to do the job that he is doing. It has been estimated that South Africa has 3 million Black workers who are illiterate. The Productivity Institute tells us that ranked by improvement in productivity per worker against 26 other countries, South Africa came second last. One of the first steps to improve this situation is adult literacy training. We must ask ourselves whether we are doing enough in this field and if what we are doing is effective. Productivity growth, economic opportunity for the individual, improved social standards and many other advantages depend on it. These adults cannot fit into any conventional school pattern. They have a day that is long and arduous, and family responsibilities, but many are prepared to make great sacrifices in order to learn to read and write. Fortunate ones may work for firms like Barlow Rand, who is enlightened enough to provide on the job literacy training for them. This is something that the department must obviously encourage and I would like to associate myself with the remarks made by the hon. member for Pinelands who, in the Manpower debate, called upon the department or the Government to make subsidies available to employers for literacy training on the job—and tax concessions as well. The vast majority of illiterate Black workers, however, will have to fall under a different scheme and be catered for differently. Statistics made available to us highlight the fact that we have not begun to tackle this problem seriously. Last year there were only 10 700 adults enrolled in all adult literacy courses. The De Lange Commission’s report recommended the subsidization of universities to undertake research into literacy programmes. Other countries have travelled this road before us and we should send people overseas in order to examine their experience. We need an overall and comprehensive system, but one that is adaptable to various situations. There is a belief that the system used by the Department of Education and Training is not adequate, nor are systems such as Operation Upgrade, which is designed to supply the needs of Western countries, and systems which have been transplanted more or less without alteration to this country.

I believe there is a great and almost untapped resource that can be harnessed in a national literacy training programme. [Time expired.)

Mr. Chairman, I have no objection to what was said by the hon. member for Walmer. On the contrary, I think he made a very positive contribution and I want to leave the matter at that.

I think the climate we are experiencing in this Committee this afternoon redounds solely to the credit of this department. We are dealing with such an important matter that it certainly is inappropriate for us to pitch into one another. We must argue the problems surrounding the education and training of the children in a quiet and level-headed manner. Even the hon. member for Pinelands surprised me with the manner in which he acted here today.

Every day.

I want to say at once that I have come to know him over the past number of years and I do not think that the previous time is the only time he will rise to participate in this debate, and consequently I want to warn the hon. the Minister that the hon. member for Pinelands is at his most dangerous when he rises to speak a second or a third time. I do hope that today he will, in the spirit prevailing here, be responsible when he next rises to speak.

It is on record that it is this Government’s endeavour to create opportunities for every child in this country, irrespective of his colour to enable him to qualify himself as well as possible for the occupation he would like to practice. The share of the Department of Education and Training in this endeavour is a major one. I say this is our endeavour, and we must realize that this cannot happen overnight. The progress made by the department in this regard over the past year has been truly astonishing. It sounds like a fairytale. If one looks back to a few years ago, to the number of Black children who attended school and to the number of attending school today, the provision of classrooms, grounds and facilities at schools, then it is absolutely astonishing that this department has been able to meet these demands. It is also true that the department has experienced its difficulties—I should rather say that it has been placed in positions which had a restrictive effect on it, apart from a shortage of funds. If my memory serves me well, the Department of Education and Training became a full-fledged department with its own Minister in 1978. Since 1978 this department has had no fewer than three Ministers, and I recall that the first Minister in charge of this department was Minister Cruywagen who is at present the Administrator of the Transvaal. He was followed by Minister Janson, who is today a Commissioner-General, and he was followed by Minister Ferdi Hartzenberg, who is today the hon. member for Lichtenburg. At the moment this department is temporarily under the wing of the hon. the Minister of Industries, Commerce and Tourism. This afternoon I want to wish him everything of the best for the task that is awaiting him. Despite the change of Ministers the work of the department did not remain in abeyance. On the contrary, it is clear that tremendous progress has been made, especially in the past year or two. The department was faced with tremendous challenges and these challenges were met by the Director-General and his officials who did excellent work in this department.

When one looks at the report of the De Lange Commission, one paragraph requires one’s special attention and I am referring to page 26 where one reads—

This is a single, short paragraph saying a mouthful. In the Free State we planned in 1976 to establish a new Black town, Botshabella, near Onverwacht. When the establishment of this town was planned six years ago, provision was made for a population of ±40 000 inhabitants in the year 1985. Now, three years prior to 1985, there are between 130 000 and 140 000 inhabitants. Provision had to be made for school facilities for the children and within a space of five years no fewer than 20 primary schools with 17 632 pupils were established. Provision was made for two secondary schools with 1 617 pupils. For 1983 another four primary schools and one secondary school are being planned. This proves that urbanization and the shift of people from one area to another require very thorough planning as far as school facilities are concerned.

I want to single out a further point or two. In the first place I want to refer to the teachers at farm schools. Last year, when I participated in this debate, I asked the hon. the Minister whether we could not consider paying a special allowance—a kind of incentive wage—to the teachers at farm schools. The position is that most of the teachers at farm schools are women. I understand that ±70% of farm school teachers are women. These people are performing a very important task in the rural areas. They are more than just a teacher. They are performing an educational task and they deal with the child in his formative years. It is true that many of those children attending farm schools do not have the opportunity of going to secondary schools, since facilities are simply not available for them. The secondary schools are overflowing and there are no hostel facilities. The foundation of the small child’s education in the primary division must be of the best quality. Because these teachers are remote from the cities and towns and all the facilities offered by them, we are struggling at this time to receive applications for filling vacancies in farm schools. I really think that we can make out a case for requesting the department to grant a special allowance to that teacher who is still prepared to teach at a farm school. If those farm schools have to disappear, provision will have to be made for those children at urban schools, secondary schools or in larger communities. I truly believe that it would be profitable if we were to pay those people a special allowance.

I also want to say a few words about the schools on smallholdings. This is a real problem, not only in my constituency, but I believe also in every other constituency in which there are smallholdings. I am aware of the fact that a few years ago the department appointed a committee to investigate the position of schools on smallholdings. It was decided at the time on the recommendation of the committee that schools on smallholdings could fall under farm schools. Consequently they would qualify for subsidies, etc. The problem is, however, that each of these smallholdings extend over a small piece of land and that the owners of the land are consequently unable to make land available for school complexes and school buildings. Moreover, the position is that local smallholding boards do not have land at their disposal either which they can make available for schools. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, further to what was said by the hon. member for Winburg I want to say that the farmers and the farming communities in our rural areas have, as far as I know, done a great deal as far as the education of Black children is concerned. I am also aware of the fact that there are many farmers who go out of their way to make special additional provision for the teachers. In my opinion one should have very great appreciation for this.

I think it would be a good thing if the hon. member for Pinelands, with the critical view he takes of what has been done over the past 30 or 40 years for the children of Black people and their education, were to state the other side of the matter during his travels by saying that the Whites in this country, to a large extent the Afrikaner, have done a great deal for the education of Blacks.

What about the backlog?

Now the hon. member may speak of a “backlog”, but perhaps he should start with Dingaan and Chaka. They did not do enough. Circumstances were very different when we moved into the country.

Now he is destroying his own case.

No, I am not destroying my own case. I want to tell the hon. member that the Afrikaner and the White man have done a great deal—and they did not do so with a leftist, liberalistic and humanistic attitude, merely to destroy structures in that way. I think the old Afrikaners, with their approach to education and the transfer of cultural elements from one to the other, did a great deal of good.

The hon. member for Winburg also said that if one were to make projections of the number of Black children, one would find that there has been a population explosion not only in South Africa but all over Africa and the world and that for that very reason one’s planning in the field of education has had to fit into the broader planning in respect of each particular geographic area. The CP will see education for Black people not only as national education for the respective groups, but also as a facet of the pattern of life of peoples. We believe that far more thorough planning must go into the ordering of such education.

I, too, want to express a few words of gratitude to the former Director-General of this Department. For the past 16 years he participated indirectly in these debates. I find it amazing that when one director-general leaves, one can notice what he did. He dedicated his life to his task. So often it is the politicians who get all the blame or the credit. I think it is the officials who are actually the people who are responsible to a large extent for the good work that is being done. One is particularly grateful for that. I also want to congratulate the new Director General.

At the beginning of my academic career I became a teacher. There are many of my former fellow students and former colleagues who subsequently found themselves in Black, Brown and Indian education. I must say that it often was some of the brightest men in my classes who dedicated their lives to other cultural groups.

The hon. member for Gezina discussed the training of people for the Public Service. I want to tell him that I was in the Other Place when he discussed state administration, but I gained the impression that the hon. member holds the view that Black people should be brought into the White Public Service. I know him and I found this rather strange. Today, however, he rectified the matter here and I was pleased to hear it. [Interjections.] That was the impression which the newspaper projected but then I also have to say that we do not believe all, or at least not many, of the newspapers. On that score I am in agreement with the hon. member. [Interjections.]

It is interesting year after year to discuss and to have insight into the education offered to the children of other national groups. I do hope, however, that we in Southern Africa will be able to move more rapidly towards a situation in which the respective Black peoples and their leaders, through their forms of government, will take over to a larger extent the responsibility of determining the education for their own people, and that eventually we might possibly be able to conduct a dialogue on education on a basis of co-existence in Southern Africa in which we might have to take combined action in many cases. Each national group should accept the responsibility for its own children to a large extent so that I shall be able to speak of the education of my children and the Zulus will be able to speak of the education of their children. I hope that it will be possible to achieve a situation like this in the future.

Now I want to come to the argument advanced by the hon. member for Pinelands with regard to one department, one Minister and an integrated system of education. I think that is true to the hon. member’s principles. He believes that to be best. I differ in principle from him and I do not really want to discuss it with him.

Now I want to refer to what was said by hon. members of the NP. We now have the new dimension in politics. Whether I or they were wrong or whether all of us were right or wrong does not matter now, but the fact nevertheless remains that one will naturally have to look more critically at the approach the NP, that stands for the relative concept of one nation consisting of Brown people, Indians and Whites, will adopt to education in South Africa in the future. We have had the assurance from the NP that primary and secondary education are not negotiable but tertiary education is not included in this. I should like to hear from the hon. the Minister whether there is any possibility of closer integration with the Black people, especially those living in the White areas … [Interjections.] If one includes political facets such as mixed government and power sharing in one’s pattern of fife, this will, from the nature of the case, spill over to all the other facets of one’s pattern of fife. Now that we have entered a new era in the politics of South Africa it will be very interesting to see what view the Government will take of education in South Africa in future.

[Inaudible.]

The hon. member is referring to sport. In a compound national organism there cannot be separateness with regard to the one facet and togetherness with regard to the other facets. The two must influence each other and grow in the one direction or the other.

Can you subscribe to the sports policy?

The hon. member is fairly new in the NP and I think he still has a great deal to learn as far as this is concerned. [Interjections.] I want to tell him that there is not a single aspect of the NP policy on which I did not adopt a critical standpoint and put my own standpoint. I want to congratulate the hon. the Minister on having obtained this particular portfolio. The hon. the Minister and I have always got on well with each other and we shall continue to do so, because I find that he is a person who speaks frankly and clearly on his standpoints. In the past we often differed on that score and we shall possibly do so again. However, I like that kind of political opponent, because one knows where he stands on matters of principle, what his projections and his ideals are and what policy he wants to base on his principles and ideals. That is the most pleasant manner of debating one can have. [Interjections.] I do not want to disturb the peace prevailing on this Friday afternoon.

Dawie lives in the twentieth century.

These are matters on which we will naturally conduct a much more penetrating and profound debate in the future.

I want to put another question to the hon. the Minister. An official in his Department, Mr. Jaap Strydom, an old student friend of mine and a man who has done very good work in Soweto, once discussed the possibility of erecting schools for very gifted Black children, children in the class of the hon. member for Pinelands and a few of the other clever members, in Soweto. I want to ask the hon. the Minister what progress has been made in this regard, whether attention will be given to them there and whether the schools will be erected only in Soweto or elsewhere as well. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Rissik spent much of his time reacting to points which have already been made in this debate and asking certain questions. I shall not react to his reactions, but rather turn to the speech made by the hon. member for Winburg.

If my memory serves me correctly, the hon. member spoke after me during this debate last year and was courteous enough to support many of the points which I made. If I remember correctly further, the topic which we both agreed on then was that of farm school education. This is an area which still interests me. I should therefore like to follow on the arguments of the hon. member for Winburg and associate myself with them.

The hon. member for King William’s Town this morning also spoke about the importance of providing facilities for farm labourers. He made a plea for agricultural educational facilities for farm children. This is an idea which surely has merit.

I think the importance of farm school education cannot be stressed enough. There are over four million Black people living on White farms in South Africa. It is obvious that a high proportion of them are children and that many schools will be needed.

During this debate last year I pointed out how the system depended almost entirely on the goodwill of the farmers. There are 70 000 White farmers in South Africa who are primarily responsible for the education of the children amongst these four million Blacks. If a Black child has the misfortune of living in an area in which farmers are not prepared or not able to provide school facilities, then that child either has to walk an incredibly long distance or else go without education. At the same time I pointed out that boarding facilities for Black children in towns were, to my knowledge, non-existent. In any case, it was the Department’s policy to give town children preference over country children when it came to filling vacancies at schools. This is the stated policy of the Department. As far as I am aware, the position today is exactly the same as it was before. Now we have a new Minister and perhaps he can tell us about new plans to overcome these problems.

I should like to refer specifically to the amount of money spent by the Department on rural children during the past year. It is difficult to extract this figure from the report which we have in front of us, but we do see that last year the Department subsidized 4 913 schools on White farms whereas the year before that it subsidized 4 982. There has thus been a marginal decrease in the number of farm schools which have been subsidized—69 to be precise. According to the report, 397 new classrooms have been built by farmers at a subsidized cost of R756 260. Because the number of schools is not increasing, we must assume that what is happening is that the existing schools are being enlarged and improved. Obviously we can have no quarrel with that, but it is my impression that the Department is not keen to recruit farmers to open new schools, and I would appeal to the hon. the Minister to have his Department play a more active role in this recruitment. At the moment it is left to concerned people in the district to put pressure on their fellow farmers to open schools where a need exists, that is if farmers themselves are not prepared to initiate a request to the Department. I do not think that this is the correct way of doing things.

In any case, spending less than R1 million on providing educational facilities for over four million people is, I am sure hon. members will agree, less than satisfactory.

My second concern is with the rural child who passes std. 5. Where is he then to go? He is caught in an invidious trap. Because it is not the Department’s policy to provide secondary school education in the rural areas, he is forced to go to town. But, as I have said earlier, this depends on him finding a place there, and he will only find a place when the town children have all been accommodated. They get first bite at the educational cherry. With conditions of overcrowding being the rule of the day, he more often than not cannot be placed and ends up with a minimum of education and a maximum of resentment. My second appeal to the hon. the Minister then is to instruct the secondary schools in town not to discriminate against the farm child when they are placing children. I can accept the argument that secondary school facilities should be provided in towns where obviously there is a concentration of population, but then the farm child must not be made to suffer as a consequence of this policy.

The third point I wish to raise concerns the provision of boarding facilities. According to this report and as far as I have been able to determine not one Black child in the entire Republic is accommodated by the Department in a boarding establishment. I know that boarding establishments have been provided at colleges, but they have not been provided for school children. I would be glad if the hon. the Minister would prove me wrong in that regard.

Those farm children who are lucky enough to find a place at a school in town must then find a place to stay. This need is usually met by relatives or friends of the parents. This is a perennial headache for the parents of farm children and so my third appeal to the hon. the Minister is that he give serious consideration to the necessity for providing boarding facilities for Black children in urban areas, particularly at secondary school level.

These three appeals refer to three important shortcomings in the hon. the Minister’s Department and I trust that he will give them the attention they deserve.

Mr. Chairman, the hon. members for Rissik and Albany put certain questions to the hon. the Minister to which I think he will reply, and I shall therefore leave it at that.

I want to come back to what I said before the adjournment for lunch in pursuance of certain statements made at the annual congress of Atasa. I referred to Prof. E. Mphahlele and what he had had to say with regard to their request for one ministry and a single department. I want to refer particularly to two other matters which the same gentleman raised. He said that Black teachers should propagate this Africa concept so that Black people could cultivate a pride in their identity and their origin. This is precisely how we on this side of the Committee feel about this whole matter. However, he stated further that this Africa concept and philosophy was characterized by a belief in the spirits of the forefathers, the forming of communities, communal patterns of behaviour for family life, respect for older people and parents and belief in one Supreme Being and the African patterns of social relations. My standpoint is that the basic principles of this side of the Committee concerning Black education are fully subscribed to even by an organization such as Atasa as well as various Black educationists and other leaders.

No, that is untrue.

The hon. member will have the opportunity of making his speech. However, I want to go further.

May I ask you a question?

You know that I do not have the time for that. I want to go further and quote what someone by the name of Dean Walter Sapp had to say in an article in Time Magazine of 12 October 1981. Fie was discussing the request of the Negroes with regard to separate education. I quote—

This is what it is all about. The attitude we on this side of the Committee adopt is also in the interests of the Black people. It is of course necessary that the education facilities in the national States do not lag behind in respect of their development. We would be doing the national States and the States which are eventually to become sovereignly independent an injustice if we were to create education facilities here of such a nature that their education facilities compared unfavourably with the quality of education in the Republic of South Africa. I say that it would be an injustice because those national States will eventually have to provide their own pupils in their own areas with education of a quality which is at least equal to that in any other place. This will therefore have to be borne in mind, although I do not mean by that that education in White areas should be neglected. Because this is the case, it is, of course, essential that there should be the necessary liaison between the education authorities in the various national States and the Department of Education and Training.

I can find no fault with the fact that one will have to have some kind of liaison mechanism in respect of education which will have to be presented at a level at which equal standards, certification, the training of teachers, curriculums, conditions of service and so on will apply, since one is dealing with the employment of those same people—I have previously advanced this argument—within a common market. However, I shall leave it at that.

I wish I had the time to talk about the achievements of this Department in detail. The hon. member for Pinelands and various other speakers on that side of the Committee have stated that there are still many shortcomings. It is the right of the hon. members to do so, but I also have the right to speak about the absolutely phenomenal growth taking place under the control of this Government’s Department of Education and Training. I want to state categorically that what we are doing in respect of White education, whether in respect of pre-primary, secondary, tertiary or adult education, teacher training or health services—one could list them all—this Department is also doing in respect of Black education.

If we wish to draw comparisons and we look at the period 1904 to 1954, a period in which Black education was in the hands of the churches—fine work was being done and I do not wish to criticize it—the recommendations of the Eiselen Commission which was operative from 1949 to 1951, and the Black Education Act of 1953 whereby Black education was placed under the control of the central Government, the phenomenal development in this sphere becomes apparent. At that early stage, it was the intention to bring education to the masses. The emphasis then was on primary education. That was essential at the time but it did not stop there. In 1967-we began to focus on secondary education, in 1972 on technical education and in 1975 on adult education, and in 1978 the Department of Education and Training was established. The Education and Training Act of 1979 contained extremely important provisions and enabled us at that stage to do the things we could not do previously, things such as the introduction of compulsory education, free education, the provision of free textbooks, to which the hon. member referred—if I have time I shall return to this—mother-tongue education up to and including Std. II, health services and so on. My hon. colleague quoted what the hon. the Prime Minister had to say, viz. that he, the Prime Minister, is striving for equal education for all the various population groups within the limitations of the South African economy. This was said in 1980, but let us consider what took place subsequently. The same standard was determined for all departments of education, Black teachers’ associations obtained representation on the Joint Matriculation Board, and the Council for Education and Training now comprises only Blacks who advise the Minister. In 1955, before the central Government took over Black education, 36% of all Black children of schoolgoing age were attending school while in 1975, 75% of Black children of schoolgoing age were attending Black schools. In 1940, only 6,16% of the total Black population was at school while in 1981—and the TBV countries are excluded—22,8% were at school. This compares extremely favourably with any country in Africa one could mention.

I want now to discuss the question of textbooks. In 1977-78 we spent R3,4 million while in 1981-’82 we spent R7 million solely on textbooks for Blacks.

Let us consider the growth that has taken place. The growth in primary education has stabilized to between 4% and 5% annually, but what does one find in secondary education? During the past 25 years the growth has been no less than 1 600%. This is phenomenal and it costs money. Let us look at the number of matriculants. In 1953 there were 500 Blacks in matric while in 1981 there were 49 000 in matric. Then the hon. member for Pinelands says that he is concerned about the so-called drop-outs. This is true and I am also concerned about it. I am also concerned about the drop-outs in White education and at White universities. I agree with him.

Yes, but it is much worse among the Blacks.

Let us have a look at the pass rate among Black matriculants. In 1960 the pass rate was 19% while in 1981 it was 60%. I give credit to their teachers but this would not have been possible if they still had facilities which compared extremely unfavourably. Therefore we should give credit for this, too, and admit that there has been a tremendous improvement in the quality of the education being offered to the Blacks as well.

Let us consider secondary schools for a moment. In 1949 only 2,6% of the school-going population were attending secondary schools while in 1981 the figure was 16,1%. Surely this is something to be proud of and something that that side of the Committee should also recognize. We should also make this known to the world at large which accuses us of not doing enough for the Black people. The hon. member for Pinelands referred to teacher training. In 1981 more than 6 000 Black teachers qualified at the eight training centres in the Republic of South Africa and the 26 in the national States. Even more recently, in 1982, there were 8 600 more pupils at Black schools than in 1981. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, in case the hon. member for Virginia thinks that we on this side of the Committee are too negative, I want to tell him that I agree with him that the achievements of the Department over the past few years have in fact been impressive. I believe there was little progress in earlier times, but certainly over the past few years it has been very difficult to find fault with the Department.

One thing that has impressed me this afternoon is the great deal of consensus in the Committee regarding the problems with which we will be faced in the next 15 to 20 years as far as the provision of Black education is concerned. I think there is general agreement as to the number of pupils to be trained and the number of teachers to be put through training college. The only point on which there has been some fundamental disagreement, has been the question of a single education department, for which we stand, whereas that side of the Committee advocates separate education departments. That is a fundamental issue about which we have argued enough and I therefore do not intend to enter that debate today. I am not quite sure where the NRP stands, but anyway, I do not think they know either. I should like to refer briefly to the speech of the hon. member for Vryheid because, in the course of his speech, he gave us some very interesting statistics which, I think, are fairly well known to us. However, he spoke of the number of teachers that will have to be trained within the next two years. He also spoke about the number of skilled workers which we would have to train and bring into the job market. He spoke about the number of technical workers that have to come into our economy. Obviously Black people are going to assume a more and more important role in the economy and the economy is basically one economy as such. What is interesting is that he has not taken the next step. In spite of all these projections he still denies the fact that Blacks will share power in some way in our country some day. Perhaps he will get round to that way of thinking.

They are getting there, they are getting there.

They are getting there slowly. Perhaps he already has but he is too afraid to say it because of the C.P. on my left. Another point which was mentioned by the hon. member for Vryheid and also by the hon. member for Rissik, concerns the question of population growth and how this made it difficult to provide all the various facilities needed. Those who have made a study of this subject and have looked at different countries around the world, will have noticed that population growth rates have declined as socio-economic status has improved. This has been shown in most countries of the world where population growth rates decline. Socio-economic status is very closely linked with education and that is why I believe that education is vitally important in this country. As far as Black education is concerned, we should be channelling as many funds and resources to Black education as possible.

That brings me to the point which I wanted to talk about today, and that is the question of pre-primary education. This is something which I think is perhaps one of the most important aspects of education in this country. Environmental deprivation is one of the main reasons why children are not ready for school. Environmental deprivations related to many factors such as poor living conditions, poor housing conditions, lack of sanitation, crowding, poor family life and unmarried mothers. Many of these factors all add up to environmental deprivation and this causes the child to have a very poor start in the educational process. This is mainly experienced in the lower socio-economic groups and particularly among Black groups in this country. There can be little doubt that Government policy in the past and present has, to a certain extent, contributed to this. In this regard one can think of factors such as migrant labour, the breaking up of family life, housing neglect and others. The De Lange Commission reports that children from such backgrounds usually perform poorly when entering school and it is very difficult for these children to make up for lost ground later on. The environments in which they grow up do not provide experience of technology, science and mathematics which enables them to grasp certain concepts later on. We can take our children as an example. From an early age they are exposed to television, motor cars, supermarkets, traffic and all the other trappings of modern civilization.

And the Blacks?

Not to the same extent, especially in the rural environment. These provide part of their early informal education and part of the child’s early learning process. He learns from an early stage the demands that modern society is going to make upon him. Many Black children are not exposed to these stimuli, especially those living in rural areas. I do not think we can really argue about that. It is generally conceded that the scope of the informal education determines the benefits the child derives later on in his schooling life. Many of these factors fall outside the direct scope of the hon. the Minister because they can only be changed by a slow process. That is why I believe that pre-primary education and school readiness education is so important to help these children to somehow compensate for their deprived background when they enter the educational process because these children are being trained to go into the same economy and they will have to compete on an equal basis with other children later on.

We should realize that the wealth of any country depends on the quality of its people and that quality depends upon the skills they possess and the educational qualifications they acquire. That is why we should place more emphasis on the so-called pre-basic education as the De Lange Commission recommends. For example, they say that school readiness is a pre-condition for a successful school career. They recommend pre-basic bridging periods, aimed at school readiness as soon as possible, in the areas where the needs are greatest. I really believe that this need is greatest amongst our Black population. One other aspect relates to the health of children. This is defined in the De Lange Commission report as the physical, mental and social well-being of children. I cannot go into much detail here because I do not have the time, but one important factor which determines a child’s performance, relates to his nutrition. I have had experience in schools in KwaZulu where children attend schools so that they can get one decent meal a day. These meals are provided by welfare organizations and by churches. A child who is hungry and is badly nourished cannot perform properly. I think the hon. the Minister should approach his colleague, the hon. Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries and somehow try to channel surplus food into these outlets. I am sure that this can be done to the benefit of farmers who have surpluses in many products. Two price schemes are fairly easy to implement in this type of situation and I am sure that some sort of scheme can be worked out.

In 1981 there were 709 000 Sub A pupils in South Africa and according to the hon. the Minister’s report aptitude tests were performed on some 50 000 at 500 schools and some 200 000 were exposed to school-readiness programmes. This represents a welcome start but more needs to be done in this regard and the scope of these school-readiness programmes needs to be expanded. I also note that there is a new course for pre-primary teachers and again I welcome this. Looking at the figures however the number of teachers who have enrolled are, unfortunately, very small in relation to the total number so far. I am also pleased to note that a subsidy of R25 per child is being paid in pre-primary schools and I welcome this too. However, I think it is very unfortunate that the department had to effect savings in this vitally important area of schooling. The department attempts to involve community councils and the different boards in pre-primary education. This is a refreshing approach to involve other people in providing this vital aspect of education. I think they should try to pressurize or encourage these groups to assist more. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I have pleasure in speaking after the hon. member for Pietermaritzburg South. I found his speech extremely positive and I could find no fault with the suggestions contained therein.

I should like to focus the spotlight on the activities of the Department of Education and Training in respect of special education. Last year was the Year of the Disabled and it again focused attention on the position of the disabled in society. It brought home the message that the disabled want to be, and can be, self-sufficient and prefer not to be dependent on a pension. It also proved once again that the negative aspect of the matter is more easily recognized than the positive. Fortunately, however, the UN has a positive approach to the problem and it proved with the adoption of the Declaration of the Rights of the Disabled in 1975 that society is aware of the demands disablement brings with it. The involvement of society is also recognized and accepted. Within a lifespan the attitude towards disablement has also gone through a phase of tolerance after an initial period of scorn and mistrust, and one finds that a stage has even been reached now where many communities make an active contribution by assisting the disabled and by acknowledging that they are also entitled to the good things of life. It is a generally accepted fact that a community cannot regard itself as being civilized until it is prepared to care for its disabled. An estimated 10% of a population is disabled and almost 25% of the population is affected by disablement in some way or other. The necessity for the involvement of the community is therefore obvious, and that is why it is generally accepted that society has to make a particular contribution in educating and teaching the disabled. However, the State also has to make a considerable contribution towards the total development of the disabled. We dare not ignore their abilities and skills. Everyone has faults and shortcomings, but, whereas most people can hide their shortcomings, the truly disabled person cannot do so. A disabled person had the following to say on one occasion, and I quote—

The disabled are entitled to the same education and training as those who are not disabled. However, it is important to note once again how important the involvement of the community is in the education of these people. That is why it is also essential that special education take place within a particular ethnic context, and it is not possible to share education facilities outside this ethnic context. This approach is in the interests of the child and I want to ask that when special education for the disabled is being considered, the situation should be regarded positively and that opportunities should not be sought to make political capital out of the situation at the expense of the disabled person. The Human Sciences Research Council emphasizes the important role of the parent in the research study of the education of severely mentally retarded children, and that specialists should assist in caring for the child within the family context and assist him in his final development. This report also recommends that children who are mentally retarded should be identified as soon as possible after birth and that they should be referred to specialists. If this is not done, valuable education and training opportunities will be lost. The report also mentions that the retarded pre-school child may become more acceptable for assimilation into society with sufficient correct attention. Mentally retarded people do not have to be a burden on society, and neither do they have to rely permanently upon insitutionalized care. The NSRC’s most important recommendations in the report on the education of severely mentally retarded pupils are that schools with boarding facilities should be available, that this kind of retarded pupil should be identified early and that teachers should be specially trained for the education and training of the mentally retarded child. With what has already been said as background, I had a look at the activities of the Division of Special Education of the Department of Education and Training and, on the basis of the department’s annual report for 1981, I ascertained how the division had succeeded in carrying out its task. The task of the Division of Special Education is, inter alia, keeping a watchful eye on the quality of education, giving expert advice, ensuring follow-up visits, carrying out inspections, upgrading teaching staff, planning education and planning and giving guidance in respect of the provision of teaching aids. One of its most important tasks is to co-operate with other education departments, including those of the national and independent States. Apart from the tasks mentioned, the department also has to progress a research programme on the education of severely mentally retarded children. The Department of Education and Training accepted responsibility for the training of these pupils on 1 April 1980. At present there are eight schools registered and the registration of a further eight schools is pending. Within the scope of the division’s training programme is a subject called practical living. This subject prepares pupils for the practical demands of life. Aspects such as finance, marriage, citizenship, self-concept, first aid, recreation, social obligation and career guidance are taught by way of this subject. Since 1953 the control of the education of Blacks has been in the hands of Central Government and since that date this education has become more purposeful and has been adapted to the personal, social and economic needs of the Black peoples.

Remedial education plays an extremely important role in the activities of the department. For example, at the end of the pupils’ first school year the worst failures are identified and placed in a separate class at the beginning of their second year. There are only 25 pupils per teacher. A comprehensive school preparedness programme lasting 12 weeks is repeated, and at the end of the programme pupils who have made satisfactory progress are transferred to an ordinary Sub A class. The remaining pupils stay in their individual classes and receive intensive mother tongue and mathematics instruction for a further eight weeks. Those who show the necessary progress are transferred to the ordinary Sub A class and the few remaining, after having had thorough tests and after consultation with their parents, are regarded as being mentally retarded and change to subject instruction. Subject instruction is based on the core syllabuses for the severely mentally retarded as drawn up by the Department of National Education. The teachers of ordinary Sub A classes give individual remedial instruction after school to small groups of their weakest pupils. What is very obvious from the annual report is the lack of involvement of the community in the education of the disabled. There are churches and other organizations which concern themselves with the education and training of the disabled. Unfortunately, taken as a whole, there is a mere 10% involvement on the part of the broader Black communities.

In conclusion, I want to advocate greater involvement in the part of the community and I want to ask that those clerics who constantly advocate violence, civil disobedience and passive resistance should rather use their energy and influence to assist the disabled in their communities. The disabled do not ask their talented leaders for arms, ammunition or other tools of terrorism. All they ask for is understanding. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I am certain that the hon. member for Maraisburg will forgive me if I do not react to his speech, but I should like to go back to the farm and elaborate further on the idea of agricultural high schools for Blacks.

†Before I do that I want to correct an error in not having officially welcomed the hon. the Minister to this department.

We keep the best for last.

My hon. colleague has put the matter in the right perspective. I would like to go a little further with the idea of agricultural high schools for Blacks because I feel that the whole idea of agricultural development in the homelands has been one which has taken such an open turn. People have spoken their minds to a far greater degree this session in regard to the absolute necessity for White expertise to be taken back into the national States and of course, into the homelands. The whole idea of getting Blacks into the agricultural stream is to enable the agricultural industry in the homelands and national States to get off the ground and this idea will have to come from the Republic at the source of expertise and practical application of farming. I am afraid that if one leaves the homelands and the national States to do this entirely on their own, they will have a tremendous uphill battle. A great number of their workers will in any event be going into the Republic to work on White-owned farms. If one is going to have the children of those people looking for secondary education only in the villages and towns one is, in fact, aiding and abetting a form of urbanization instead of decentralization into the rural areas. If we can bring about a situation where organized agriculture is concluded in the discussions with this department in regard to the establishment of these schools in strategic points throughout the Republic, one would get an upsurge of interest and participation by farmers and farmers’ associations. One will find that bursaries will be forthcoming and that they will have a personal interest that families of their staff receive admission to these agricultural schools. This in turn would have a reflection back on the primary and secondary schools because they would have to achieve a certain standard for admission to the agricultural schools. There would be a tremendous outflow of involvement in the rural community, with the wellbeing of their staff, their staffs children and a tremendous uplift of expertise and technical knowledge right through the whole system. One would also have crosspollination to a certain extent. As we know that a lot of these people have relations in the national States and the homelands and they move backwards and forwards. They would, perhaps, have their children come to these schools in the Republic perhaps by choice and this knowledge and information would be taken back and would create a far greater uniformity of purpose and outlook in relation to the agricultural industry as a whole.

There is an agricultural settlement in the Taung area where a limited number of Black extension officers play a tremendously important role in co-ordinating a farming programme for the Black farmers. It has resulted in greatly increased productivity and has generated interest and almost excitement amongst the farmers participating in the various production units. Their crops are good and their productivity level is as good as any found in this country. There is a complete dearth of this in South Africa. We have acknowledged the permanent existence of the Blacks in our urban areas. We must also acknowledge his permanent existence in our rural areas and the fact that we are going to have to see to their well-being in the areas in which they will be able to find employment. We should start now in providing for this on a far more realistic basis. As I have said earlier, there is a total fall-off in the education of the children of Black rural workers and this is the real problem. This is a marvellous report which contains tremendous statistics of every possible nature. I cannot think of a department which provides more statistics than this department. There is an absolute void in the grand effort that is going on here, because the rural people are at a tremendous disadvantage and I do ask the hon. the Minister and his department to give serious consideration to the closing of the gap and to make facilities for secondary education available to these people who are going to be a very important part of the economic productivity chain of agriculture in the future. In particular he should give his attention to the concept of the agricultural high school.

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for King William’s Town continued his argument for the provision of education for rural Black children. There is a great deal of merit in his argument and I believe that, in time, provision will in fact be made for this.

We have almost come to the end of the discussion of this Vote. After having listened to the speeches of the hon. members of the Official Opposition, I thought to myself that when in the future they come to a discussion of this Vote, they ought to nominate only one person, and all he would have to do on behalf of the Official Opposition would be to say: “I came, I saw and I was overwhelmed. I raise my hat, carry on.”

Can you say that in Latin?

It is a fact that in the Republic of South Africa the Black people have a tremendous backlog in respect of education qualifications. There are thousands of adults who are completely illiterate, for whom it must be a tremendous problem to live and work, to travel and to find themselves in a world where the written word and the ability to deal with it are absolutely necessary. There are thousands more whose education qualifications are completely inadequate to enable them to be considered for promotion in the posts they occupy. The Department of Education and Training has accepted the challenge on a broad front to afford adults the opportunity of receiving further education and is carrying this out with wonderful results. The programme for the education of adults aims firstly at increasing the academic qualifications of the teachers in the employ of the department. When one considers that in 1978 the highest academic qualification of 62,9% of the Black male and female teachers was std. VIII plus teacher’s certificate, one can understand the tremendous need for opportunities for further study. I am pleased to be able to say that at present there are 4 014 teachers doing the senior certificate course at adult education centres. A second aim is to assist adults to improve their academic qualifications with a view to promotion in the work they are doing. The following figures show the use that is being made of this opportunity. In 1981 the enrolment for the preparatory courses, i.e. from Sub A to Std. II, was 6 604, for course 1, i.e. Stds. III and IV, it was 5 145, and for course 2, i.e. Std. V, it was 8 549. For Std. VIII it was 15 102 and for Std. X it was 13 537, which includes the number of serving teachers.

A third aim is to make literacy education or instruction available. In 1981 the number of enrolments was 10 702. However, instruction in literacy demands the specialized training of instructors, and special courses have been arranged to train these instructors. This is what is so striking about this department—it does not try to meet the needs of people in a random way but carries those things through to their logical conclusion. If literacy courses are offered, courses for the instructors who have to present those courses are also given. In 1981, 331 instructors were trained to take charge of these courses. This course lasts for 32 weeks. There is an A course, which includes literacy, the mother tongue and two official languages, and a B course, which only includes literacy in the mother tongue. A certificate is issued to the people who attend these courses.

Furthermore, it is important to remember that all adults who further their studies at approved centres receive free study material in all subjects from Substandard A to Std. X. The centres for adult education are established by the department on request and on its own initiative. Each centre where adult education takes place must be registered with the department, and there are already 4 782 teachers teaching at these centres on a part-time basis. There are 44 full-time principals and seven inspectors. In this regard we are once again impressed by the absolute thoroughness with which things in this department are carried out. Not only has the department established the centres and appointed the staff but it has also appointed inspectors to see that the work is done properly. There are 175 of these centres at present. Furthermore, it is important to remember that on application and after approval by the department, the private sector may establish its own centres which then have to be registered.

It is interesting to note the enrolment for literacy instruction. This course attracts people over a wide age spectrum, from 16 years to 60 years and older. It is extremely interesting to note the figures. In 1980 920 people were enrolled in the age group 16 to 19 years. There were 3 041 in the age group 20 to 29 years, 3 472 in the age group 30 to 39 years, 2 270 in the age group 40 to 49 years, 825 in the age group 50 to 59 years and 174 in the age group 60 years and older. These enrolments therefore cover the entire age spectrum from 16 years to, well, as old as the hon. member for Pinelands and I are. [Interjections.]

It is also important to note that the department regards this section of its activities viz. adult education, as being of the utmost importance. The amounts appropriated in the budget in this regard are proof of this. In the previous financial year the amount was R6 131 000, whereas this year it is R9 181 000, an increase of 49% in the expenditure on this kind of education, which is of great significance and value indeed.

I want to conclude on a completely different note. Mr. Chairman, please allow me on this occasion to thank the department and the hon. member for Lichtenburg very much indeed. Last Tuesday I was privileged to be in my home town where eight new classrooms are being built at present at each of the primary schools while a new high school is also being built for next year. I would so much have liked the hon. member for Lichtenburg in his former capacity as Minister of this Department, and the Director-General of the Department, Mr. Rousseau, to have experienced the intense gratitude of the people there in this regard. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Kimberley North quoted many statistics from the annual report of the department. This will, of course, be very illuminating for hon. members who have not read the report, but I did examine the annual report and therefore I shall merely associate myself with what he said about the good work done by the department and the well-prepared annual report, which reflects its activities.

In contrast to the hon. member for Rissik, who advocates total separation. I do find it a pity that the essential statistics relating to the independent states have not also been included, because in the long term we can only harm our economy by cutting ourselves off from what is happening in the educational field there. I remember how pleased I was two or three years ago when Minister Punt Janson announced that the Government had accepted in principle that compulsory free education for all Black people would be introduced in the Republic within the foreseeable future. Only about a month after that, however, Dr. Connie Mulder said that we should bear in mind that within the foreseeable future there would be no Black people left in South Africa. [Interjections.] That, of course, is not how one solves the problems. I do want to say that I am sure that the department has accepted the challenge of Minister Punt Janson and is not striving to achieve Dr. Connie Mulder’s option.

I am pleased to see that the training of teachers is enjoying a very high priority. This can clearly be seen from many of the new programmes, e.g. that the new minimum qualification for training in the new diploma courses introduced at the beginning of the year, three and four year courses, is now matriculation; indeed, the principal aim of the Vista University is specifically teacher training; in addition there are in-service training programmes, etc. Therefore one can say that as far as new entrants are concerned, they are now starting on a very good footing. I do want to ask whether the hon. the Minister has a target date by which his department wishes to achieve the pupil/ teacher ratio of 30:1 as is envisaged in the report of the De Lange Commission.

I note from the report that last year, for example, there were 20 new pupils for every new teacher, and that the ratio was therefore improving. However, when one realizes that the pupil/teacher ratio is at present 47:1, I should like to know what the target date is by which to achieve that ratio of 30:1.

†Today I want to make a special appeal on behalf of that very large group of under-qualified teachers who are already in the service of the department. Of the current teacher corps we see that of the 37 000 teachers employed by the department, 3 000 have less than a matric qualification, and if one includes the national states, 62 000 teachers out of 83 000 have less than a matric qualification. Of these, 20 000 have less than a Std. VIII qualification. These teachers form the bulk of the teaching staff, especially in the primary schools. Taking into account their own lack of training, the teacher/pupil ratio, the pupils per classroom ratio and the general lack of facilities, I think that their performance measured in terms of the pass rate, is nothing short of a miracle. We see, for example, that the Std. V pass rate is fairly close to 80%. In other words, I think that these people achieve above-expected results in a world in which the accepted norm is that a teacher should have a minimum qualification of M plus three or even M plus four. However, the drop-out rate is too high, and as far as this relates to the under-qualification of teachers, I think that urgent action is required.

I wonder if hon. members realize that, at the top of their scale, there are approximately 10 000 teachers in South Africa, 5 000 working for this department, who get less than any of their pupils could earn doing part-time gardening for pocket-money. That is, assuming that members pay their part time gardeners approximately R7 per day, in other words, R1 890 per annum. Added to this group there are a further 51 000 teachers, 26 000 in the national States, with less than a matric qualification, but with some teaching certificate, who are now on a maximum notch of R420 per month. Furthermore, to illustrate the point, one must realize that the next jump is to a maximum notch of R8 400 per annum, and from there, with a degree plus certificate, a maximum notch of R14 900. From the very lowest to the very highest qualification, therefore, there is a ratio of 8:1 which I think is too large a gap. I believe that these under-qualified teachers deserve a better financial deal as well as extraordinary opportunities to improve not only their teaching ability, but also their remuneration. As I have indicated earlier, these teachers achieve remarkable results, so that one can say without doubt that there is no direct or absolute correlation between a person’s academic qualifications and his ability to teach others, especially in the primary school situation.

I therefore propose that in the career development of these teachers, namely in both their continuous training and their service conditions, the department should move away from the stereotyped method of an input in terms of the teacher’s own qualifications as the sole criterion in determining their remuneration. One should rather look at the output, or the results that are achieved …

How are you going to measure that?

… in terms of the task at hand, namely to teach children to pass their grades.

*The linking of remuneration to a post, Mr. Chairman, is surely not a strange idea. For example, all members of Parliament receive exactly the same salary, while the Prime Minister, irrespective of qualifications, receives considerably more.

So what you are proposing is that the Progs are to receive nothing in the future, measured in terms of their output?

Mr. Chairman, I realize that there are many service training schemes. Last year some 15 000 teachers benefited from these, but unfortunately these courses seem to be isolated in so far as these courses cannot be accumulated towards recognition for improved remuneration. Teachers are therefore compelled to embark on a regular academic paper chase, which means that 62 000 teachers who want to reach the top of their profession without giving up their means of livelihood in the process, must start out from JC or less, firstly, to reach matric, which can take two years. From there onwards one must remember that if they do the certificate only, they are still R6 500 short of the top, that they will then have to do a degree part-time, which could mean another six or seven years of part-time study before they earn the top salary. In respect of all this there are no intermediate steps of recognition, other than a sort of token prize of R60 per subject achieved in part-time degree study. It may therefore take a person perhaps more than ten years to reach the top and during all this time the teacher cannot give of his best in his classroom; somebody who is already making a valuable contribution is filling training space which could perhaps be better used by a new entrant, while the curriculum of his own studies do not necessarily enhance that of his students. While not wanting to discourage further study in a standard academic direction, the plight of these under-privileged and under-qualified teachers should, in my view, be taken up as an opportunity to experiment with more enlightened or even revolutionary methods of teachers’ training, possibly only as a crisis intervention effort to meet the extraordinary challenge.

I would therefore suggest that we look towards progressive series of short modular courses, where the emphasis would start with the curriculum content of the pupil together with teaching method, towards a broadening of the teacher’s own knowledge and development. Access and exit from the series should not be rigid and modules should be linked to remuneration. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the position in which I find myself this afternoon as acting Minister of Education and Training reminds me of the saying they have in the North West, viz. “dat dit ’n bekwaam plek hierdie is om te makeer”. By that I do not mean that the exhilarating challenges with which the Department of Education and Training concerns itself make one want to run away, but rather, that in the short time that I have been privileged to accept responsibility for this department I have simply not been able to establish myself to such an extent as to be able to stand here this afternoon with any pretence that I am an expert on this subject. Fortunately, hon. members on this side of the House have given me good support, and the sound contributions made here by the senior members in particular have been so valuable that my task this afternoon has been considerably facilitated.

†In cricket terminology I think I could describe myself as a kind of night watchman, the objective being to protect one’s wicket and if one should score a few runs, that is regarded as a bonus. I must also say that in general the hon. members played cricket this afternoon, in that the debate was reasonably constructive and of a high standard. I should like to thank them all for that.

*Mr. Chairman, the task of the Department of Education and Training, and the extent of the task, are enormous, as various hon. members have already indicated this afternoon by referring to statistics. It is due to the importance of this task and with a view to the future that the Government gives a high priority to Education and Training. Various statistics mentioned this afternoon and referred to by hon. members attest to the importance which the Government attaches to this task. Before putting a few ideas to the Committee with reference to certain statistics, I should also like to associate myself with various hon. members who have referred to the annual report of the department and congratulated the Director General and his senior staff.

More than any other department, the activities of the Department of Education and Training are expressed in statistics. Indeed, the annual report of the department is a tremendously rich source of statistical data. Accordingly I should like to congratulate the department for the way in which they have drawn up the annual report. While addressing these few remarks to the department I also wish to associate myself with various other hon. members by conveying the sincere thanks and appreciation of the Government to Mr. Rousseau, who retired as Director-General of the Department of Education and Training at the end of April. Anyone who has worked with Mr. Rousseau for any length of time or who knows him will be able to attest, as have many hon. members of the Committee, to his outstanding characteristics. The contribution he has made to Black education in South Africa—I really want to say in Southern Africa—is phenomenal. The hon. member for Lichtenburg made special reference to this. Mr. Rousseau’s dedication to the upliftment and moulding of Black people originated with his father, who was a missionary in Malawi and later in Sekhukhuneland. After his training Mr. Rousseau felt it his calling to contribute towards the upliftment and development of the Black peoples. He chose education as the way of fulfilling that calling. Accordingly a lifetime of service to his fellowman began at the Stofberg Memorial School, where he began his teaching career.

Whites in South Africa, and the Afrikaner in particular, are often criticized in leftist liberal circles and accused of supposedly caring nothing for Black people, apart from wanting to oppress and humiliate them. Nothing, of course, is further from the truth. But where are those liberals who are prepared to devote a lifetime of service, without recognition or fuss, to the upliftment and moulding of Black people? No, Sir, it takes the dedication of an Afrikaner boy of the calibre of Joubert Rousseau to do that.

Hear, hear!

Therefore I thank him not only on behalf of the Government and, I believe, all the members of this Committee but also on behalf of many thousands of Black people who, due to his dedication and zeal, have gained the opportunity for a better life. We wish him many more fruitful years in the service of the Commission for Administration.

Mr. Chairman, it is also my privilege to associate myself with various hon. members who have welcomed Dr. Fourie here, and to convey to him our best wishes with a view to the heavy responsibilities that now rest upon his shoulders. One need only examine Dr. Fourie’s curriculum vitae to realize how outstanding he is equipped for this great and complex task. I therefore do not doubt that this department will go from strength to strength under the able leadership of Dr. Fourie.

I also wish to convey my congratulations to Mr. W. P. Steenkamp on his appointment as Deputy Director-General.

As I have already said, I wish to associate myself with various members who sought to indicate this afternoon by reference to statistics how spectacularly Black education has grown in South Africa over the past number of years. As far as I am concerned there is no figure that better expresses this phenomenal development and progress than the increased appropriation for Black education over the years. If one bears in mind that only a decade ago, in 1972-’73, a mere R27 million was spent on education, whereas 10 years later the amount voted had increased by 1 600%—almost eightfold—to the present amount of R475 million, one can form some idea of the growth that has in fact taken place. This is even more significant if one compares this increase in the budget for Education and Training with the increase in the total national budget. In this regard I just wish to take the past few years as an example. In 1977-’78 the budget for Education and Training increased by 50,7% as against a 13,6% increase in the total national budget. In 1978-79 the budget for Education and Training increased by 22,5% as against the 9,1% of the total national budget. In 1979-’80 the appropriation for Education and Training rose by 26,3% as against the 13,7% of the national budget. In 1980-’81 the appropriation for Education and Training rose by 34,3% as against the 16,4% of the national budget. In 1981-’82 the appropriation for Education and Training rose by 51,4% as against the increase of 17% in the total national budget. As members are aware, the appropriation for Education and Training increased by 28,7% this year as against the 13,7% of the national budget. These are remarkable increases, and the problem of many hon. members, particularly those on the side of the Official Opposition, and the hon. member for Pinelands in particular, is the tendency not to measure progress by what has been achieved over the years. There is a temptation to assess this progress and development against the yardstick of a modern, sophisticated First World educational system. It must be borne in mind that we are dealing here with people who are often first generation entrants to education.

†Mr. Chairman, it is necessary for the South African economy to continue to grow at an average growth rate of at least 5% and preferably more during the 1980s to provide enough employment opportunities for the fastgrowing Black population. It is estimated that the labour force will increase from approximately 10,5 million in 1980 to 17,6 million by the year 2000. In other words, during the next 18 years job opportunities will have to be created for 7 million additional work-seekers or at the rate of almost 1 000 jobs per day. The Government and the Department are aware of this mammoth task and have tackled it with determination. We are resolved to eliminate the backlog in education in terms of facilities within the next few years. As the statistics prove tremendous progress has already been registered in many fields. The Department’s main objective is to reconcile the potential of the student with the needs of the country.

*Mr. Chairman, this is a matter which was referred to by the hon. member for Vryheid as well when he dealt with technical training. It is true that a marked shift in emphasis is taking place in this regard. It is technical training for the very purpose of preparing the Black community, the Black school child, the Black pupil, for the technical world in which he finds himself.

†In this connection it is obvious that a fair growth rate and the concomitant job creation and improvement in the quality of life will only be obtained if the contribution to high level manpower is also made by other population groups than by the White population group. In other words, the demand for people in the category of high level manpower must also extend to other groups and must not only be confined to the White population group. South Africa will not be able to fully realize its development potential and to offer all its peoples an acceptable standard of living if the White population group has to continue to provide for most of the needs for high level manpower. At present 96% of the management group in the South African economy, including the national states, consist of Whites. If this trend continues a relative deterioration can in fact be expected in the course of time for the very simple reason that the potential for the further employment of Whites at management level has almost reached an optimal level.

*It is against this background that the Government places such a high premium on training. It is still the aim not only to extend the facilities and as a result broaden education, but also to increase the quality. The latest budget attests to this once again. The budget as an expression of the Government’s intention to take positive action to improve the quality of education in Black ranks also gives expression to the various emphases displayed by the Government in this budget.

In the course of the day several speakers have referred to various aspects of this. In the first instance I wish to deal with the speech of the hon. member for Pietermaritzburg South because he dealt with one of these matters, viz. pre-primary education which, as appears from the budget, is a matter to which the Government is devoting increasing attention. The fact is that we take cognizance of the fact—and various hon. speakers have also stressed this—that the environment plays an important role in the formative years of a child’s life. Accordingly, in the first years of school we often have a child who has a cultural and academic leeway to make up. Cultural poverty plays so major a role that the child’s progress at school is influenced by it. Accordingly it is also necessary to give attention to these first years of a child’s life, when formal education does not yet have a formative influence on the child, but his environment does play an important role. Accordingly we do not support the standpoint of the behaviorist who believes that the child is exclusively a product of his environment. As Christians we believe that as an individual, the human being is a unique creation and is more than his environment. Man is capable of surmounting his environment, however limiting. However, the limiting or restrictive influence on the child of his environment cannot be underestimated. This is evident, particularly when one studies the influence of subcultures on a child or persons who belong to that subculture and notes the extent to which the influence of the environment can have almost an enslaving effect on a child. The example of the subculture of poverty is well known to members of the Committee in this regard. Nevertheless the child is more than his environment and he is capable of overcoming his environment. He is still educable, and education and training can play an important role in eliminating the backward position the child is in due to his environment.

Since I have touched on the aspect of behaviourism, it is perhaps interesting to note that this approach exemplifies the crucial difference between the Christian view of life and Marxist philosophy. Marxism believes that man, who is a product of his structures and his society, can only really be liberated if those structures are radically changed. The world view that we subscribe to is based on the belief that the being, heart and attitude of people must be changed, and the structures must change in accordance with that. However, man is not dependent on the environment. Man is not merely a product of his environment. Accordingly in education we must be primarily geared to the child as the object, as the Department of Education and Training in fact is. This education and training eventually has a ripple effect, affecting the family and the society in which the child finds himself. Specifically in order to involve the pre-school child in the educational programme in the important formative years of his life, the department has launched a school preparedness programme over the years. This forms part of the upgrading programme for primary education.

One of the disturbing problems being faced in education, which hon. members have also referred to this afternoon, is the high drop-out rate. I hope to say a few words about this at a later stage. Due to the upgrading programme for primary education to which the department has given special attention, more than 700 000 children have enjoyed the privilege of being involved in remedial education over the years up to and including this year. This has had a dramatic effect on the drop-out rate. In certain schools its influence has been such that the drop-out rate has dropped from 18% to 3%.

†The department has now decided to become involved in pre-primary schooling, as the hon. member for Pietermaritzburg South has requested. This involvement entails the training of teachers for this purpose, the compiling of a programme for nursery schools and the subsidizing of nursery schools by R100 per annum. In order to obtain maximum utilization of the facilities and teachers available, it was decided to concentrate initially on the five-year olds only. However, the extension of the scheme to four-year olds and three-year olds will be considered in the near future.

*As far as primary education is concerned, statistics indicate that entry into primary education is stabilizing at approximately 3% and perhaps somewhat higher. However, it is evident that growth rate is stabilizing and this indicates that we are slowly making up the tremendous leeway with regard to the provision of facilities for primary education. Accordingly the emphasis can also shift away from the provision of education and the extension of facilities and more towards the improvement of education itself. This entails a school preparedness programme for Substandard A—the department is already concerned with this—remedial education for scholastically retarded children in Substandard B, and special classes for the mentally retarded from Std. I. This also entails the further expansion of compulsory education. Further expansion involves vertical expansion at schools that have already accepted it, viz. to the extent that the children progress to higher standards, compulsory education in that school is extended. It also involves horizontal expansion, to the extent that additional communities that ask for it are included in the compulsory education programme if the facilities are available. While entry at the primary level is stabilizing, it is important to note that the number of teachers has increased by 10,5%. This signifies a considerable improvement over the past year in the teacher-pupil ratio. In 1968 this ratio was approximately 1:58. I note that the HSRC report still talks about 1:48, while the hon. member for Greytown spoke of a ratio of 1:47. It seems as if the figure for this year will be closer to 1:42. Therefore this is a considerable improvement in that sphere.

The challenges faced by Black education are often presented so one-sidedly, and the impression is created that although some progress is being made, the department will simply be unable to handle the tremendous challenges that lie ahead. Reference was made this afternoon to the HSRC statistics, viz. that up to and including the year 2020, 245 000 qualified Black teachers will have to be provided. The fact is that at present there are already adequate training facilities for teachers in the department to meet this challenge. The hon. member for Pinelands—I shall come back to him later in greater detail—also made mention of this. However, the fact is that from this year, Std. X plus three years are being set as a prerequisite for entry to the educational profession. The hon. member also referred to that. Even taking this condition into account, it is still clear that with the present output of approximately 10 600 teachers per annum, by the year 2020 there will already be more than 360 000 teachers, and here I refer to 360 000 teachers with matriculation plus three years of further training, and these teachers can be produced by way of the existing facilities. Perhaps I should react at this stage to the hon. member’s remark to the effect that I had indicated in reply to his question in the House that no teacher training facilities had been taken into use during 1981. The hon. member’s question was in fact whether the department had established new teacher training institutions for Blacks in 1981. The fact is that the department established three in 1980, two of which came into operation or were activated in 1981 and the other this year. Therefore, three new teacher training colleges were in full use from this year.

He asked the wrong question.

No, my question was correct.

Unfortunately the question was not correctly formulated.

You have had second thoughts about it.

No, the question was whether any new teacher training institutions for Blacks had been established by my department.

Yes, that is right.

Not a single new one was established in 1981, but two were enacted. The fact therefore remains that two new teacher training colleges opened their doors during 1981, and another at the beginning of 1982.

Due to the greater availability of matriculants it is now possible to improve the general standard of teacher training.

Mr. Chairman, may I ask the hon. the Minister a question? I acknowledge the incredible development in teacher training, and I also mentioned it in my speech. However, in the figures quoted by the hon. the Minister I do not think he has taken into account that the projected number of teachers needed by 2020 are over and above teachers that retire and leave the service of the Department. We must therefore not be too complacent at the figure which the hon. the Minister has given us.

Order! The hon. member must ask a question.

Is the hon. the Minister aware of that fact?

I am very well aware of that fact, but I did not even allow for an increase in output. Even if one assumes that the output up to the year 2020 would stay the same as that for 1981, we will still be able to meet, in round figures, that number. Certainly the drop-out or retirement figure should coincide with an increase. I agree and I think that will certainly be taken into account.

*Various hon. members, particularly the hon. members for Winburg, King William’s Town and Albany, referred to the role played by the farm school and asked certain questions in this regard. I shall come back to certain questions in greater detail at a later stage when I reply to the hon. members. The important role played by the farm school is well known and has been dealt with and emphasized in previous debates under this Vote by various hon. members. Accordingly it is a pleasure to announce this afternoon that the Treasury has agreed to increase considerably with effect from 1 April 1982 the subsidy for farm school buildings, which was previously subject to a maximum of R2 000, and to improve the scheme. The basis of subsidization for farm school buildings built after 1 April 1982 which comply with the requirements of the scheme differs in a number of important respects from the previous system. I should like to refer to this briefly.

In the first place, the new subsidy comprises 50% of the real construction cost up to a maximum of R5 000 per classroom. This R5 000, in contrast to the previous maximum of R2 000, is based on the unit cost of R10 000 which will apply per classroom for the financial year 1982-’83. The unit cost per classroom will be revised annually to make provision for cost increases. Additional services such as toilets, storerooms, offices, etc. as provided by the department will have to be included with the classrooms built by the farm owner. The nature and extent of these additional facilities will depend on the number of classrooms built.

Secondly, the subsidy will, with the approval of the Minister, be paid for more than four classrooms—the limitation which applied in the past.

Thirdly, in the normal course the farm owner first has to complete the building before the subsidy is paid. In terms of the new system, if for some reason he is unable to finance the construction of the building up to the stage of completion, arrangements can be made in special cases for the subsidy to be paid as the construction work progresses.

Fourthly, existing schools with no facilities such as storerooms, toilets, etc. can be subsidized on the same basis for the construction of these facilities to supplement the existing classrooms.

Fifthly, where existing classrooms are dilapidated and have ceased to be suitable for their purpose, farm owners can apply for the replacement of those classrooms on the same subsidy basis as applies to the construction of new classrooms.

Sixthly, in future the department will assist farm owners financially to renovate and maintain classrooms and school buildings. Application may be made for a maintenance subsidy not exceeding R500 in respect of classrooms that were five years old on 1 April 1982. However, there is one important condition I wish to point out: Before subsidies are paid out in terms of the new basis of subsidization, the owner must enter into an agreement with the department that he will make the accommodation constructed or improved in this way, available for schooling purposes for a period of at least nine years and eleven months.

I hope that this major and praiseworthy improvement in the scheme will indeed serve as a stimulus and incentive to farm owners, as the hon. member for Albany asked, to make these facilities available on their farms, for their own benefit as well.

A further important matter which I wish to dwell on briefly is the following: During discussions that took place between the hon. the Prime Minister and the Chief Ministers of the various national States, the need was identified to devote attention to the serious disparities that were developing among the various education departments. As a result, discussions took place among the various educational authorities and from these it was clear that there was a major need for more and improved educational co-ordination. Unless there was better co-ordination in the future, the disparities that were developing would have increased and had serious consequences for the quality and standard of education in Southern Africa. The fact is that pupils and teachers move around in the country, and it is only logical to argue that if salaries, for example, were to be made more attractive in one state than in another, teachers would be attracted there, to the detriment of the other national States. It is therefore essential as regards the quality of education, the teacher and orderly development of education in Southern Africa that there be better co-ordination at this level. The development of the national States and the establishment of separate national departments have meant that in the course of time control and financing of education has become fragmented. The Department of Cooperation and Development makes an overall amount available to the various States, and the various Governments then determine, in accordance with their own priorities, how the funds are to be allocated to the various departments of the national States. The absence of proper joint planning, consultation and co-ordination among the various education departments can give rise to tremendous disparities. Since the budget is in fact an important instrument of policy for every department, because the budget is used to single out certain priorities and give precedence to specific matters, it has been decided by the various education departments of the national States and by the Department of Education and Training that in future the Department of Education and Training must assist in a co-ordinating capacity in advanced planning for and drafting of budgets for the various education departments. In order to give effect to this unanimous request by the various national States the Cabinet has decided that in the first place, there will in future be co-ordination of all educational budgets by the Department of Education and Training; secondly, that the Department of Education and Training must give all possible aid and advice to national States to enable them to plan draft budgets for educational services properly and effectively so that the highest degree of uniformity can be achieved, without infringing upon the autonomy of the various departments; thirdly, that the Department of Education and Training make recommendations to the Treasury concerning those funds which may be set aside for educational assistance programmes in the national States; fourthly, that the amounts voted, as in the past, be made available to the national States by the Department of Co-operation and Development.

I want to stress once again that this new dispensation in no way detracts from the autonomy of the various national States. The various national States are still free to determine their own priorities, in respect of education as well. It is still the responsibility of the various national States and their education departments to handle the expenditure. This decision by the various national States has only been taken in order to co-operate with a view to achieving greater parity in the educational systems in Southern Africa to the benefit of all interested parties.

It is therefore a confederation of education policy.

It seems to me that the hon. member has considerable insight. If he is beginning to think along those lines he may also see the merit of the NP policy of creating, within the framework of a community of autonomous States, the instruments with which to deliberate and consult with one another in various spheres without this having to detract in any way from the autonomy and independence of the units. That, in brief, is the concept of a confederation. The hon. member has not had the opportunity to make a speech this afternoon, but by this remark he has made a very significant contribution.

If I come closer to a confederation, will you come closer to a federation?

I should now like to touch on a few of the remaining matters raised by hon. members.

†I think the hon. member for Virginia and the hon. member for Gezina dealt very effectively with the hon. member for Pine-lands, particularly regarding the concept of one department and one educational system for South Africa.

The hon. member also referred to the vacant posts and he inquired why there were vacant posts in the department and why they were not filled. He also asked whether this was a way of channelling funds to other priorities.

The fact is that the various teaching posts are budgeted for on a scale, which in effect means that budgeting is done in accordance with the qualifications deemed necessary for that specific post. However, when the post is filled by a person with a lesser qualification, the post is not vacant, but is vacant percentage-wise, because the less qualified person who occupies the post does not draw the full salary of the person who has the necessary qualifications. Therefore this can mean that posts are indeed filled, but are not filled as regards 10%, 20% or 30% of the salary as expressed in the budget. Due to the cumulative effect of this factor, there is a substantial amount in the budget of the department which is reflected as relating to vacancies, but strictly speaking, this does not in fact imply that such vacancies do exist.

The hon. member also referred to the vacancies at head office. The vacancies that exist at head office and are reflected in the annual report did, on the one hand, arise due to new posts that were created which could not be filled immediately. However, on the other hand, one must also bear in mind the phenomenon that an annual report reflects the figures at one specific moment. However, the Department’s activities and the filling of posts are on-going processes, and many of the posts indicated as vacant in the annual report have in the meantime been filled. This also applies to several of the posts at head office.

†The hon. member also referred to the high percentage of drop-outs. I share the hon. member’s concern for this particular problem and the department is doing its utmost to try to solve the problem. However, one must also remember that the high percentage of drop-outs is also due to other factors.

Yes, I accept that.

The one change in the department’s policy which will also entail a change in the number of drop-outs is, for example, the compulsory age-limit with regard to primary and senior schools. It used to be the case that a man who entered Sub A at the age of 18 wanted to leave school to get married at age 20. Circumstances such as these meant that various pupils left the schools at an early stage.

The hon. member also asked about Fort Hare. Perhaps I should just provide the details very briefly. On the occasion of the university’s graduation ceremony on 1 May, stones were thrown by a group of students, apparently about 150 of them, when the Cabinet of Ciskei arrived on the university campus. Stones were thrown, a car was damaged, a window was broken and the Ciskeian police accompanying the motorcade, fired shots and used tearsmoke to disperse the rioters. Two people were wounded and 22 arrested. This occurred on Saturday, 1 May. On Monday, 3 May no students attended class, and meetings were held without the permission of the rector. On that occasion 1 500 students were taken into custody, but later released after paying admissions of guilt of R50.

That is a great deal of money.

The council of the university as well as the rector did their best to persuade the students to continue with their classes and tried to bring activities back to normal. After it became evident that persuasion would not be sufficient to get the students back to class, the rector gave notice yesterday that students who were not attending their normal classes by 11h15 would have to leave the university. Initially the ultimatum was ignored, but since then the position has changed to such an extent that it is a pleasure to announce that I have been in contact with the authorities this morning and it appears that almost all the students returned to their classes and that activities are being proceeded with on a relatively normal basis. However, there is still a very small group of students who are not prepared to co-operate.

†The fact is that the Ciskei is an independent State, and as an independent State responsible for its own law and order. An agreement was signed between the Governments of the Republic of South Africa and the Ciskei on the control of the University of Fort Hare. I should like to refer hon. members to one or two important aspects of this agreement. According to this agreement the Government of the Republic of South Africa which, in its Department of Education and Training, is at present administering the University of Fort Hare Act, 1969, will—

*In other words, as in the case of any other university, the execution of duties and the administrative responsibilities of the university fall under this Department, but they are also transferred to the council and authorities of the university, because it is the policy to grant as much autonomy as possible to the various university authorities. However, when it is a matter of the maintenance of law and order in another country’s territory, the hon. member will understand that this is not a matter in which the South African Government can interfere.

†The hon. member also asked about youth camps. The hon. member was probably referring to a youth camp conducted by the Administration Board of the Orange Free State. The Administration Board invited the South African Defence Force to take part in a programme arranged by the Administration Board. The Department of Education and Training was not consulted when the camp was arranged. Consequently the Department was not involved in the programme at all. When the Department became aware of the programme arranged by the Administration Board, particularly the involvement of the South African Defence Force in that programme, it objected very strongly to that programme. The Department of Education and Training has a special section responsible for the arrangement of youth camps and the promotion of youth activities. In the camps conducted by the Department the emphasis falls on the inculcation of those qualities that would equip the youth for leadership in their schools and communities. No attempt is ever made to indoctrinate the youth in any way. The pupils attending the camps are made aware, amongst other things, of nature conservation, the norms required for effective leadership, responsibility, integrity, loyalty to their own people, discipline, etc. These camps are conducted by the Department of Education and Training, without the involvement of the South African Defence Force.

Mr. Chairman, do I take it that the Department was totally uninvolved with other camps which I understood, from fairly reliable information, have also been held in the Cape, camps which involved schools under this Department and at which, only recently, army trucks and Defence Force personnel were involved? Am I to understand that in the opinion of the Minister and his Department this is not their policy and that they will not allow it to take place in the future?

My senior officials and I are not aware of any other camp arranged or organized by the Department, at which the South African Defence Force was in any way involved.

*The hon. member for Gezina dealt with the remarks of the hon. member for Pine-lands. He made a very constructive contribution for which I should like to thank him. He also referred to the high priority the Government gives to education and training and the variety of steps taken in this regard. I thank him, too, for the friendly words he addressed to the Department concerning the way in which the leaks during the recent matriculation examination were dealt with.

The hon. member for Virginia dealt as ably with the comments by the hon. member for Pinelands. The hon. member for Pine-lands is going to be full of aches and pains tomorrow. [Interjections.]

No, you are wide off the mark.

I thank the hon. member for his outstanding contribution. [Interjections.]

The hon. member for Lichtenburg apologized for not being able to be present. Until very recently he was responsible for this Department. In the short time that I have had the privilege of becoming better acquainted with this Department, I can honestly say that it appears that the hon. member for Lichtenburg did good work. He worked with enthusiasm and built up good relations, not only within the Department but also with the Black heads of education with whom he came in contact. Not only did he display enthusiasm, he also, in my opinion, displayed the right attitude towards the work, he strove with enthusiasm to achieve the objectives set by the Government, namely, equal quality of education, parity in salaries and all the other objectives that form part of the policy of the Government. I am sorry the hon. member is not present because I should like to speak to him as a brother. I should like to say to him that I shall not be negative, and I am also grateful that he was very positive. I cannot therefore hold it against him if there are still major deficiencies or backlogs in Education and Training. Therefore I find it regrettable that the hon. member for Lichtenburg, who is one of the few hon. members of the Conservative Party for whom I had exceptional regard as a person and a friend, made remarks in a different debate about a former colleague and Minister which, in my opinion, were not a credit to his dignity. We are trying to the best of our ability to make up a lot of leeway—a situation which in many respects we inherited. To say, therefore, that he ashamed of an hon. Minister who is not capable of showing progress with the work he is engaged in, is not the kind of a remark I expect from the hon. member for Lichtenburg.

The hon. member Prof. Olivier discussed the universities for the most part. The hon. member comes along, dragging his feet somewhat, and says that he accepts Vista after all, but let us say that there was rejoicing at one convert. [Interjections.] The hon. member Prof. Olivier asked questions about the number enrolled at our universities, particularly the drop in enrolment last year. After a consistent increase over many years, there was a notable but limited drop in enrolment at the universities, including Fort Hare, last year. The answer, of course, is obvious. The answer is to be found in the riots and the fact that far fewer matriculants were able to write their senior certificate examinations and enter the universities. [Interjections.] Yes, those are the facts. [Interjections.]

Mr. Chairman, may I ask the hon. the Minister a question?

Before the hon. member puts a question to me, let me just tell him what the position is. The total enrolments at these universities rose considerably in 1982, and I shall stick to totals. There were a total of 10 487 enrolments for the Black universities—the University of Fort Hare, the University of Zululand, the University of the North and Medunsa—as against 7 900 the previous year. The moderate drop is being eliminated entirely, due to the increased university enrolment this year. The statistics which the hon. member quoted in connection with post-graduate education only relate to Black universities, but there are also several post-graduate students studying at our White universities. Therefore, in order to form a comprehensive picture of the of students at the post-graduate level, those students must also be taken into account.

Certainly.

Taking into account the enormous increase at the university level in recent years, one must expect that the cumulative effect of education and training will contribute to the dramatic increases in the years that lie ahead. I remember when I attended the university of Stellenbosch—not so many years ago. At that stage we had exactly 5 500 students. However, the objective is for these Black universities to have an average of 5 500 students per university within the next few years—by the middle of this decade. However, one must also take into account that at the higher levels in particular, the university or post-graduate level, development is slower than may be the case at the primary and secondary level. With reference to the hon. member’s question about the smaller number of students who have completed their studies, I can only indicate that it is difficult to give an off-the-cuff indication as to what the reasons are. It does seem as if there was heavy pressure on students during the time of economic prosperity in South Africa, with the shortage of highly trained manpower, not to proceed with a second degree but to be employed immediately by the private sector. Therefore it is due to the outstanding offers received by students that fewer students proceeded with a second degree. Apart from that, as the hon. member himself knows, post-graduate study is a field in which certain fluctuations do occur; the numbers do not simply increase progressively each year.

The hon. member for Vryheid discussed technical training and referred to the need for far more to be done about technical training. The fact is that technical training is one of the Department’s top priorities. The expansion of the facilities in Black residential areas, where an upgrading of existing schools is taking place, also means that a greater variety of subjects can be offered to pupils, viz. that differentiated education can come into its own to a greater extent. As a result the number of pupils in key subjects, which are also important in later technical and professional life, has increased considerably. I shall only mention the increase of 28% in commercial subjects and 95% in technical subjects. However, I must add at once that the latter increase is an increase from a very low level. As a result, the eventual total number of pupils taking technical subjects is still far too small, but this field of education is being given special attention. Within a short space of time the Department has made exceptional progress in this sphere. Whereas there were only two technical colleges in 1980, since 1981 twelve new technical colleges have been opened, and another 16 are being planned. The hon. member did refer to a problem area, but the Department is fully aware of this and in addition is making provision for large-scale training in that direction.

At the secondary level serious problems are being experienced in providing meaningful vocational guidance. The reason for this is that the child is not always adequately acquainted with the technical and professional world. This problem is being dealt with by also offering technical orientation courses at various technical centres.

†The hon. member for Walmer made a fine speech. I would like to advise the hon. member for Pinelands to go and read that speech, particularly the first part.

It would be pointless. He would not understand it.

He made very positive remarks about adult literacy education. The fact is that literacy programmes have been introduced by the Department as part of the adult education programme. The programme for adults up to standard five level has already been restructured to provide for Black adults employed in agriculture, industry and commerce.

*The importance of the type of education to which the hon. member referred cannot be underestimated. It is not only a matter of the upliftment of the individual in his community. It is not only a matter of the improvement of a person’s literacy and therefore his improvement as a person. It is also a benefit which is of great importance to the community as such. A child who passes the first years of his life in a home where there is no reading and in which he does not know what is to be found in books, a home in which stimulating discussions about man and his world do not take place, starts off at a tremendous disadvantage. Not only does adult education contribute towards increasing the literacy of the community, it also promotes an orientation towards education in the community.

To conclude, a further indication of the importance the Department attaches to this matter is the extent of adult education in the centres that have been registered, and there are 243 of them. The 126 satellite campuses are also of special importance in this regard. Of course, this education is not aimed solely at the person who had to leave school early or who had no opportunity to be exposed to education. As certain hon. members have mentioned here, the academic courses are also geared to offer the teacher the opportunity to improve his qualifications. I think the hon. member for Kimberley North referred to the fact that a target group of 4 700 teachers have already had the opportunity to improve their teaching qualifications in this way.

The hon. member for King William’s Town referred to farm schools, and in a certain sense I have already replied to that. The other aspect he touched on was that of secondary education on the farms. This is a matter which is being attended to. Where numbers justify it and there is merit in the creation of secondary facilities, such facilities have already been created. I do not wish to discuss all the problems that that entails this afternoon, but the fact is that the quality of secondary level education is ultimately determined, inter alia, by the number of pupils and the variety of courses that can be offered. In the nature of the matter, then, it is only logical to argue that better facilities will be offered in the towns, where there are larger concentrations of people.

†The hon. member asked for education to be extended to say Std. VI level, which would of course mean that for example a laboratory would have to be included in the facilities that are provided, and there would have to be electricity, running water and many other things that are sometimes more difficult to provide in farm schools than in schools in bigger urban areas.

*The hon. member also discussed agricultural schools. In this regard I should like to point out that the agricultural school is geared primarily to preparing the prospective farmer for his task. Therefore the primary task is to equip the farmer and get him established. They are not primarily there to train the employees of the farmer. With a view to the need to establish farmers, to give farmers on a smaller and larger scale the opportunity to prepare themselves for their eventual life’s task, it is necessary that the agricultural colleges or agricultural schools in the national States be given preference.

Once again, in his two speeches, the hon. member for Kimberley North has made an outstanding contribution to the debate. In the first instance I want to thank him for his contribution on parity. He referred to the special milestone achieved this year in that parity has also been extended to the level of the ordinary teacher and that post level 1 has also been included. In his second contribution he also pointed out how the number of teachers is increasing and what is being done to improve the quality of education.

The hon. member for Winburg made a very good contribution about farm schools. I trust that the hon. member is grateful for the improvement to this scheme that has been introduced. One appreciates the fact that a person with an intimate knowledge of farm schools and their needs could discuss this subject with so much warmth and appreciation, but also from a positive point of view.

The hon. member for Rissik put a question to me. Over the years I have often had long discussions with him. Sometimes we have differed with one another, but I always find it a pleasure to argue with him because he is a person who, in my opinion, sincerely tries to find answers to our difficult problems in this country. Even if we are not always in agreement on the solution to be offered, I do believe that we cherish the same aims or ideals.

Where did all these discussions take place?

Over a cup of tea.

Oh!

Although the NP’s policy on primary and secondary education is clear to the hon. member, he asked: What, then, about tertiary education, the universities? In this regard, too, the hon. member, who for a long time was chairman of the NP’s study group on national education, is in my opinion fully acquainted with the party’s approach. The university reflects the spirit and character of the people or population group for whom it has been established. Education is primarily a matter of the implanting of culture, and this implanting of culture is a more important factor in the primary and secondary phases of the child’s life. However, when the young man or young woman eventually enters university life, the academic component becomes stronger, and particularly when he or she reaches post-graduate level, he or she becomes part of the international community of knowledge. Accordingly it is as well that there should be a greater degree of openness at that level, that there should be reciprocation, that there should be an exchange of ideas, that there should be mutual stimulation, because the cultural moulding has to a large extent been achieved over the years. If it had not been for universities abroad where Afrikaner students, who guide our Afrikaans students today, were able to study, the intellectual component would also have been lacking. Accordingly it is also important in the ethnic community of South Africa that the spirit and character of the various universities be maintained but that this sound academic interaction takes place in the ethnic community, particularly since the accent at post-graduate level is strongly academic. Accordingly I have dealt very briefly with the matter about which that hon. member put a question. He knows what the policy is. He knows that the various universities make provision for the needs of the various population groups, but when provision has not been made in these universities for certain fields of study, provision can be made to accommodate these studies at White universities.

†I think I have answered the questions of the hon. member for Albany about farm schools.

The hon. member for Pietermaritzburg South referred to pre-primary education, which I have also dealt with.

*The hon. member for Maraisburg drew our attention to the problem of the retarded child. I am grateful that he also takes cognizance of the considerable increase in the budget specifically to make provision for the retarded child. It is an increase of 44%. The fact is that the cost per pupil in such a school is of course considerably greater than in an ordinary school. However, the Government wants to involve and interest communities as far as possible so that they, too, can play a role in this regard. The Department encourages community involvement by subsidizing buildings by 95%. The activities in such an institution are further subsidized by 100%. A start was already made last year on construction work on the first secondary school for retarded pupils. It is being proceeded with this year. I refer to the school for cerebral palsied in Soweto. Construction programmes for schools for the aurally handicapped on the East Rand and also for paraplegics in Durban will be initiated shortly.

The hon. member for Greytown asked about the annual reports of the independent States. I ought not really even to answer such a question, but I just want to ask him for what reason he might require the annual report of the four independent States that previously formed part of South African territory, if he does not also want the annual education reports of the BLS countries? If he takes a personal interest, he can write to the various States and ask them for their annual reports. [Interjections.] The contempt with which the hon. member referred to the independent States from the very outset is a pointer to his attitude to these independent States. [Interjections.]

Order!

I want to conclude by sincerely thanking hon. members on this side of the House and also the hon. members on the other side of the House who made positive contributions. I think that in general this debate has contributed towards spotlighting various aspects of the Department’s activities, and although we are aware of the tremendous challenges that lie ahead—they are indeed enormous challenges—good progress has been made over the years. We know that this progress will continue. Accordingly, in the years that lie ahead we shall be able to see how the leeway is made up in many respects, how new ground is broken and how new beacons are planted on the road of education and training in Southern Africa, in a way that will be of the utmost benefit to this subcontinent.

Vote agreed to.

The Committee rose at 16h58.