I move, as an unopposed motion—

seconded.

Agreed to.

I move, as an unopposed motion—

seconded.

A greed to.

I move—

I was on my feet immediately after questions when Ministers caught the eye of Mr. Speaker first and introduced motions not on the Order Paper. I wish to avail myself of Standing Order No. 33 to bring before the House a matter of public urgency by moving the adjournment.

Will the hon. member state the matter?

The matter refers to the diggers on the alluvial fields, particularly to the Lichtenburg area. It is a matter of great urgency, and the public press has drawn attention to it, and, generally speaking, it is fairly well understood. In addition to the public press some members of this House have investigated personally the unfortunate and deplorable conditions on alluvial diggings, arising partly out of recent regulations. The hon. member for Delarey (Mr. van Hees) was one, and the hon. member for Christiana (Mr. Moll) was another. I was there myself about a week ago, and satisfied myself that conditions were abnormal. The situation has been described as “a tragedy,” and unless something is done quickly that tragedy may deepen, and further difficulties arise. Many of these men are starving. Numbers are making their way into the towns without work to offer and to homes in which there is no food. Their condition is deplorable in the extreme.

The hon. member must not discuss the merits of the matter. He must just state the case, and, if permission is allowed, he can go fully into the matter.

The recent area proclaimed has not given them a chance to live. The position is such that we do not know at any moment when further difficulties may arise, or when this law-abiding community may take measures to protect what they consider their own interests. I trust, therefore, that, as a matter of urgency, the House will consent to discussing the question.

The matter is undoubtedly of very great public importance, but I am not satisfied that it is of such urgency that it cannot be met by giving notice of motion in the ordinary way. I do not think, therefore, that it falls under Standing Order No. 33, and I am not prepared to submit it to the House.

I move, as an unopposed motion and pursuant to notice—

I have obtained the consent of the Minister of Native Affairs, and of the movers of the preceding motion and amendments.

seconded.

Motion put and agreed to.

I move—

When one looks at the railway map showing 13,000 miles of railway, one finds a large gap in it in the fine country through which the Olifants River runs. I intend at present to call the attention of the Minister and of the board to that gap. As for the second part of my motion, it is chiefly intended to get in touch with the East Rand market. I shall confidently leave the second part to the eloquence of the hon. member for Pretoria (South) (Dr. van Broekhuizen). I want chiefly to confine myself to the great interest the bushveld has in a railway. It is a well-known fact that the East Rand market is about the best in the Transvaal. The first part of the motion is intended to point out the urgent necessity, and the advantage of providing that white part of the map with a railway, and so developing it. During the last few years there has been amazing development in farming along the Olifants River. There are now splendid farms, where chiefly wheat is produced. The hon. member for Lydenburg (Mr. Nieuwenhuize) is better able to speak of the importance of wheat-producing districts. I am speaking chiefly about the part of the motion which refers to the railway from Bronkhorstspruit to Marble Hall, because charity begins at home. It is one of the best parts and has never yet attained the development it should through lack of railways. We know that the present Minister has successfully introduced the road motor system, and we are grateful, and on behalf of the electors I have to praise him for what he has already done. There are also motors in my district, and they have worked successfully.

Do they pay?

So well that it has become necessary to replace them by railways. That is just my argument. Hitherto it was feared that that rich country in the bushveld was unhealthy. That superstition has also been entirely quashed. I have a report here about health conditions there, and it says that the best chance of reaching old age is given by those parts. The report says that the bushveld is among the healthiest parts in South Africa, and that it contains persons who are over 100 years old. If the railway is built hon. members can also go to that healthy area. There is the other tributary of the Olifants River, namely the Moses River. Development has also been great there during recent years. A few years ago there were only a few people, but now there are from 70 to 100 voters, and a large irrigation scheme will be started along the Olifants River, embracing at least 2,500 morgen of land, and scores of families will find a living. There is a further big scheme of irrigation higher up along the Olifants River. Because I attach so much importance to that part I made a visit there of three days and received the impression of paradise, even the snake not being about. The buffalo grass grew luxuriantly and I challenge any member to mention a part of South Africa where grass grows so high. The well-known expert, Pieter Koch, also visited that part, and made a report confirming its being the paradise of the Transvaal. There will shortly be fine irrigation works along the river, and a scheme is pending of entering into agreements with the largest firm I know in those parts, namely Lever Bros., to use the dry land for planting monkey-nuts on a large scale. They are excellent, and the Minister of Agriculture ought to get hold of that report and study it for his enlightenment and my encouragement. The policy of the Government rightly is to use motor-lorries for transport where development is at all possible. It attains a certain height, but what actually makes a railway necessary is industry, particularly mining. In those parts we have the greatest mineral richness in the world, and digging for gold was commenced on a small scale; there are also molybdenite and magnesite. These are minerals now being bought here by America, and they will be of great importance when our new iron and steel industry is created. There is also plenty of coal. Rut the greatest industry may prove to be marble. I might give my imagination wing. There is every kind of marble, black, white and coloured, and even transparent. I visited the place, and one of the gifted artists, Architect Moerdyk, said that that marble was equal to what the Greeks used for their statues. It has not been used for 2,000 years, and now we have the humble little division of Pretoria (North) supplying it. I have the reports of the Government expert. I do not wish to read them, but to quote something from them. What, for instance, do Mr. Trevor and Dr. Wagner, the well-known experts, say? They say it is the largest, and most beautiful deposit of marble that they know of in the world; so cheap that it can be used for ordinary buildings. The report was issued in 1919 by the then Minister of Mines and Industries, Mr. F. S. Malan. An interview with Professor Pearce, the well-known Johannesburg expert, was recently published in the “Star,” and he says that the sandstone that we use for our public buildings cannot resist the weather. If we look at the Union Buildings we agree, as several portions show bad patches. The same applies to other large buildings. Other architects have also maintained this, and refer to the town hall of Johannesburg, the Bank of Africa, the law courts, and the art gallery in Johannesburg. I understand the reason is that the sandstone contains iron. The sandstone cannot resist the weather, but now there is marble which gives an opportunity for electing lovely buildings in the Union. The quantity is unlimited, and is estimated by Drs. Rodger and Wagner at 250,000,000 cubic feet. Then we can build our memorial buildings of marble, and art lovers will be able to come and see the buildings, just like the dome of Milan, which is built of Carara marble. I hope that in the near future a building will be erected of that marble for the legislators of the Union, so that it will be a permanent monument of beauty and durability.

Where?

I am prepared to vote for Cape Town, if it is built of that marble, because then north and south will meet each other in architectural style. There is a large market for marble. I have a return here of the imports, and it appears from the report of the Board of Trade and Industries that it amounts to at least £25,000 per year. Experts have calculated that we can obtain the marble in our own country at Marble Hall for at least £50 a ton less. The iron and steel industry will require a great deal of lime, and the best lime in the world can be obtained from waste marble from those parts. Our consumption of lime is already high, amounting to several thousand pounds. The Johannesburg mines spend about £153,000 a year on lime, and according to the report on the iron and steel industry, 32,000 tons a year will be required for the factory to be established at Pretoria. The report also says that the best lime can be got at Marble Hall. It can also be got from Taungs, but the distance is great, and the lime worse. Large quantities of lime are also used by the acetylene factories, the sugar industry, and the farming industry. If a light railway is built, tremendous development will follow. I hope the Minister will accept the motion, and carry it out quickly. I have a letter here from a well-known Cape firm, which writes that our marble is known in Europe, it was exhibited at Wembly, and there is some of it in the High Commissioner’s office in London. The firm writes that it will be able to compete in price, and of course also in quality, with the marble of Carara. There is a chance of exporting it to Europe, America and Australia. I hope the motion will be accepted, and given effect to.

I second. I most willingly support the motion. The Carara marble of South Africa is also very necessary to the artist. Our artists complain that they have no marble to work on. If, then, statues are required in future, one, for instance, for the Minister of Railways, they can use that marble. I have risen chiefly, however, to advocate the joining up of the railway line from Bronkhorstspruit to Benoni in order to reach the East Rand market. The constituency has really been treated very badly. For two years we have been promised a road motor service; I think the only excuse the Minister can have for delay is that he intends to build a railway there. I am very sorry that, notwithstanding the promise, there are no motor-lorries there yet. The Minister said, and the department wrote, that the road is in such a state that they cannot run any lorries there. The portion of the road which is boggy is only about ten yards, and the motors can get through it easily. We are tired of those promises.

Let the provincial authorities repair the road.

It is only a short road, and I hope the Minister will keep his promise. However, we really need a railway there, and possibly the Minister intends to give us one. The lorries can run there, and if they are authorized, the road will certainly he repaired.

I move, as an amendment—

We have heard a great deal about marble, but that is commonest in the parts where I am asking for a railway. We need not go to Europe to see marble, we walk on marble everywhere up there, and it can be seen in the head office of the railways here. We have all kinds of marble. There is much development taking place along the Oliphants river. The Minister has instituted a motor service there, and we are grateful. Two months after the lorries arrived the traffic increased so tremendously, that it is clear that the lorries cannot cope with it. There are now nine lorries from Bitterfontein to O’okiep, and further on to Concordia, hut the big lorries break up the roads so much that the poor Divisional Council cannot keep them in repair. It is absolutely necessary that a railway should be built there. Those districts are neglected. It is not a small white spot, but the largest white spot in the Union. The former Government neglected it. This Government has already given it bread, and the position is improving, but matters were so neglected that a good deal more is necessary. It will pay. Minerals will also be discovered there, and the lorries, the forerunners of the railway, have so much to carry that the Minister will see himself that a railway is necessary. My second proposal is a line from Klaver via Vanrhynsdorp to Calvinia, and a line from Tygerberg to Kalabaskraal. This is a connecting line. The bit of railway which we have now got will only pay when it is extended, and the connection with Kalabaskraal is completed. We have now 19½ miles of branch line. By the extension, it will become a main line, and bring us 500 miles closer to South-West Africa. The interests of Cape Town weighed too much with previous Governments for the line to be built, and we are thankful to this Government for doing something for us, though more is necessary. It will pay, and wipe out the neglect of the past.

In seconding the amendment, I would like to draw attention to the fact that by a very small expenditure we should be able to develop a large portion of South Africa. The Government could purchase the Milnerton railway and build a line from Tygerberg to Kalabaskraal, thus connecting it with Malmesbury and to the railways leading to South-West Africa. I am sorry that it is impossible to paint the glorious picture which the hon. member for Pretoria (Mr. Oost) has done. We shall be unable to connect the railway to marble halls and the promised land of South Africa, but the line I suggest would not only develop the small farms in the north-west, but the south-west protectorate would also be developed. The main line to De Aar has to cope with an enormous amount of traffic, and it is futile to expect it to carry much more than it is at present doing. The line I suggest would relieve the railway to De Aar of 15 per cent. of the present traffic. We are justified in asking the Government to consider the matter.

I move, as a further amendment—

I am pleased to be able to move this resolution which has come up every year. With reference to the line from Worcester via Villiersdorp along the Doom River, I can only say that it has, on many occasions, been surveyed by the experts. The Minister knows the line very well. It is not a question of marble, but of agricultural development. It is an area that has regular rains, and is very fruitful. As for Villiersdorp, there is a natural settlement there, not established with Government aid, but by private capital, and it is one of the most prosperous settlements in South Africa. I say no more about the first portion. Then there is the second line from Bot River via Hermanus to Stanford. The line will not only open up one of the most beautiful and healthy coastal areas, but also one of the most fruitful parts of South Africa. Stanford is the centre of a large agricultural area, and the line will lead to great developments. The Minister knows that the existing road motor service has already got almost too much work. Some years the ’buses carry 10,000 passengers, and the number is increasing very much. Without the least hesitation, I propose the line.

I second. The mover has put the case so clearly, I am sure the Government will give consideration to this question.

I move, as a further amendment—

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

The line I propose is so good that I need not say much. The worse a matter is, the more it has to be praised to get anything done. I leave that to other hon. members. I just want to remind the Minister of the fact that the line to Losberg is only a half measure, and a half measure can, of course, not pay well. When the connection is made with the line between Langlaagte and Vereeniging, so that the people have an opportunity of going to the Johannesburg market, there will be great development. The hon. member for Losberg (Mr. Brits) will be able to speak about the traffic in fruit that will take place. Then I want to remind the Minister that the line from Losberg via Lawley to Potchefstroom will be 14 miles shorter than that from Johannesburg to Potchefstroom. The block of traffic between Johannesburg and Randfontein will thereby be reduced, and this is very necessary. The line will pay. I need not say much more. I see that the Minister is listening more attentively to this than to the other motions, because he knows it is of greater importance. He knows that the line will only pay if it is extended.

I second. I agree with the hon. member. Everyone knows how rich those parts are in minerals, and what development might take place there in other respects. It is very fruitful there. We are thankful that a part of the line has been built, but it will only pay well if it is extended. The hon. member who has just spoken has pointed out that it will shorten the main line connection by 14 miles. I certainly hope the Minister will give special attention to this motion.

I move, as a further amendment—

I do this with every confidence that it will have the serious consideration of the Minister of Railways and also of the Railway Board. I think this is the fourth occasion I have had to appeal to the Minister, but as it is such an excellent scheme, I feel that by continuing to knock at the door of the Minister eventually our request will be acceded to. I repeat again what I have said before that the line I am pleading for is a very short line, about 27 miles in length, and it goes through the most productive section of the south-western province, serving particularly a great grain-producing area. It is wheat which we want, and of which we are importing now too much, and the serious attention of the Government in regard to wheat production could be shown in the extension of this line. It will shorten the distance to the coast by a considerable length. Produce loaded at Protem has to go all the way through Caledon over Sir Lowry’s Pass and through Worcester to the North. By this extension we shall save 150 miles or more. I feel it is necessary for the encouragement of the farmers in that vicinity that this line should be constructed. When it was suggested some years ago it was stated the line was only “pro tem,” the name itself suggesting the stigma which we want taken away. I hope the other people who hold out such beautiful promises about their lines will also get their lines.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

This line has been repeatedly proposed. The Railway Board knows all about it, and they probably want to build the line, but the question is only, when. It must be done quickly. The mealie kings live in this part. Thousands of bags of mealies are grown there, and the quantity will be increased if the railway is constructed quickly. It can be postponed no longer.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

It is unnecessary to speak at length on this matter. The line is too good to require it. The Minister and the Railway Board, and everyone else knows it.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

This is the third time I have introduced this motion, and I hope it will be the last. We, of course, expect that a new railway programme will be introduced next session, and I do not for a moment doubt that the Minister and the Railway Board will, in any case, include what I propose in the programme. The first proposal is the connection between the Cape Province and Natal, an inter-provincial line. In this respect it differs from all the other proposals, and clearly shows the importance and necessity for the line to the country in general. The second part of my motion deals with the line of a more local kind in the district of Dordrecht. I want to point out that Wodehouse has no railway. It will possibly be said that there is a line from Sterkstroom to Maclear. It is true that it touches a small southern point of the district, but it is a shame how those important districts are neglected. Beyond this there is absolutely no railway, and the Minister will agree that the line from Dordrecht in the direction of Klipfontein is of great importance. We are thankful for the granting of the road motor service which has been in operation since October, and when the Minister has the data he will be convinced that it is a very payable undertaking, and that it is high time that the motor service be replaced by a railway to develop those fruitful areas.

I second. I think if the Minister will take the trouble to read the very able speech made by the hon. member for Tembuland last session in connection with this matter, it will save the time of the House.

I move, as a further amendment—

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

I could easily keep the House till to-morrow morning by mentioning the good qualities of my motion, but it is not necessary, as it is so good. I do not wish to be guilty of the same mistake as other members who have talked at such length.

I second. It is one of the most important of the lines proposed.

I moved a similar amendment last year. I hope the Minister will notice that the present proposal is in conflict with the one before the House last year. Careful attention must be given to the matter, because the line now proposed will not work well in practice. I proposed last year to build the line direct to the water works, and it must be passed in that form. It must not just be a question of satisfying a village, but of the development of the country. Undoubtedly something must be done in those parts, and the line must be extended, but the present motion gives a wrong direction. I also hope that the Minister will not delay much more before building the line from Winburg to Marquard. The Minister knows ail about it, and I hope he will act quickly.

I move, as a further amendment—

I also wish to refer hon. members to the map. While other parts have a great network of railways, my districts have none. The fiscal division of Sutherland is about 4,000 square miles, and has not a mile of railway. The people there are surely not step-children, but taxpayers, and have the right, as regards railway communication, to be fairly treated. I am glad that the Minister has told me that it has been decided to institute a road motor service between Matjesfontein and Sutherland. I hope it will be a great success, and also that Sutherland will soon have a railway. I want to refer the Minister to Section 127 of the South Africa Act, which lays down that the railways must be run on business principles with due regard to agricultural and industrial development, and the advancement, by cheap transport, of the establishment of an agricultural and industrial population in the inland parts of all provinces of the Union. The time has really come to build the line I propose. All sections of the population must be treated the same. In France there are State schools with only one pupil, and letters are delivered at everyone’s door. In the district of Sutherland there are people who live 100 miles from the nearest railway, and no one is closer to it than 30 to 40 miles. That is not the way to act, The railways must develop those inland parts. The Minister will say that it will not pay, but I think that there will be so much development that it will pay. May I, however, point out that other parts have got railways, which, according to an admission by the hon. member for Cape Town (Central) (Mr. Jagger) will not pay till the day of judgment. There is, e.g., the line from Calvinia to Hutchinson. The loss on that is from about £50,000 to £60,000 a year. There is the line from Touws River to Ladismith with a loss of £20,000 to £30,000 a year. My line will certainly not lose so much, and I hope it will soon be built. Then I ask for the extension of the line Ceres-Prince Alfred’s Hamlet. This also passes through an area of about 4,000 square miles, and the length of the railway there is five miles, and will, I hope, be increased this year to six-and-a-half miles. It is an area where, as a result of the small line, hundreds of thousands of new fruit trees were planted, and which brings in more income tax to the treasury than many other districts, and which has a right to further railway communication.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

This is the same amendment as last year. Some members say that they also introduced their motions last year, others say that they have done so three times. I hope a different procedure will be followed in future, and that, possibly, the rule will be adopted that only once in every five years the same railway proposal may be introduced, and that once it has been put on the list of the Railway Board, it is disposed of. I hope that the Railway Board will thoroughly investigate the line which I propose, and which is connected with the motions of the hon. members for Ladybrand (Mr. Swart) and Winburg (Dr. van der Merwe). The eastern parts of the Free State undoubtedly need communications, and I hope that the interests of the little village of Hobhouse will be borne in mind. The village is a very important centre.

I second.

I move, as a further amendment—

The Railway Board visited the district for which I am asking a railway, and know the circumstances. It is the largest grain producing part of the Flee State, and the necessity for a railway there is very great, and it will greatly develop. I need not enlarge on the subject, but I make an earnest appeal to the Minister to give his attention to it.

I second the amendment without the least hesitation. Last time there were about 40 to 50 amendments, now the number is much reduced. It shows the importance of the proposals which had not yet been disposed of. I hope the Minister will also notice that the amendments all come from his own party. When the Opposition was in power it looked very well after its own party, and the Opposition no longer has any interest in this matter, as only two members are present, the hon. member for von Brandis (Mr. Nathan), who, we know, takes an interest in everything, and the hon. member for East London (City) (the Rev. Mr. Rider), who is trying to follow his good example.

I move, as a further amendment—

My amendment is the last, and I hope that when the Minister commences the consideration of the proposals he will start at the bottom.

It is a pleasure to second the amendment. The Minister is surely convinced that lines are never built needlessly in the Free State.

I move, as a further amendment—

I think that the Minister will comply with this request, and that it is not necessary to say anything further to convince him, or the Railway Board of the necessity for this line. He has himself often advocated it, and if he refers to his own speeches he will find excellent arguments.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

With regard to this line the test has already been made by motor-lorries, and it clearly appeared that a railway line is necessary along the Olifants River, and that it will pay.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

This is a very important line. The part which exists now is only a half measure, and the Government can surely not allow it to be a dead end in the veld. Only the extension will make it pay well.

seconded.

I move, as a further amendment—

If the railway is built it will save thousands, and hundreds of thousands of stock in times of drought, and enable those parts to develop.

seconded.

There is, of course, no objection to accepting the motion with its amendments. The hon. member for Pretoria (North) (Mr. Oost) only asked for the consideration of the proposal, and the Railway Board will do so very willingly. In connection with the various motions, I was glad to see that they were much fewer than last year. Apparently the system of road motor services has had so much success that many needs have been supplied, and this has of course convinced a large number of members that their request for railway extension was a little premature. This is proved by the fewer motions. I am glad to see that the system of road motors has been so successful. In all probability there will be no motions at all next session.

Oh, yes.

I think that if is not sufficiently understood how enormously our railways have extended since 1922. The Union Government has authorized 1,963 miles of new railway, and of this, nearly 2,000 miles, 1,170 have up to the 31st of December of last year actually been opened, while 435 miles are already under construction, and there only 347 miles which have to be commenced, and will, we hope, be undertaken this or next year. It goes without saying that there can be no question of a new railway programme until the old programme has been completed, but when that is done hon. members can rest assured that what they have said will be gone into and considered by the Railway Board. I think that hon. members will also be interested in the figures of the road motor services, and I am glad to be able to tell them that the policy is giving great satisfaction. I am very sorry that the hon. member for Pretoria (South) (Dr. van Broekhuizen) has made an attack on the railway administration in connection with the non-establishment of a road motor service in his district. I have the correspondence here. Only on the 4th instant the hon. member was written to fully, and it was explained that we were anxious to introduce it, but that the condition of the roads was such that we could not, and he should make representation to the provincial authorities. Let me here say that the railway administration is not prepared to establish motor services when the provincial authorities will not give proper care to the roads. Hon. members will understand that if the roads are not in proper order, the exploitation of motor services will cause enormous expense, and the whole policy will then break down. I must therefore tell the hon. member and his constituents again that if the roads are put in proper order there will be no further delay in connection with the institution of the necessary services, which have, as a matter of fact, already been authorized. The motor services which have already been opened or authorized cover 8,593 miles, more than two-thirds of the mileage of the Union railway system. The institution of the motor-’buses has undoubtedly been a great success, and the department will institute others, always provided the public are prepared to support the services, and that the roads are in such a state that they can be instituted without extraordinary expense. It is not necessary to say more. I am prepared to accept the motion.

Amendments put and agreed to.

Motion, as amended, put and agreed to, viz.—

I move—

The cause of this motion is to be found in the past, very far in the past. The burger forces of the two old Republics were still holding their own in July, 1901, against the enemy, a mighty enemy, an enemy which sang: “We’ve got the ships, we’ve got the men, we have got the money, too.” The late Gen. Botha had no ships, he had only a few men, and at that time no money. He could fight without ships, and he did wonders with few men, but no one can fight without money, not even the best general. Accordingly in July, 1901, he gave Breytenbach instructions to collect arrear taxes from the natives. Breytenbach was a very cautious man, even if he was a field-cornet, and said that it was dangerous. The natives were riotous, and it would be dangerous to sue them for taxes. Gen. Botha said that he must have money, especially for sending people to Europe to obtain peace. Mr. Breytenbach was a farmer, and he had 3,000 golden pounds buried on his farm as a kind of fixed deposit. It is about the best fixed deposit one can have. If he had left the money there, he would have been well off after the war, but he loved his people, dug up the fixed deposit, and gave it to Gen. Botha to wage the war, and make peace. I notice there are members laughing, but I ask any member here who would do the same thing to stand up and I will take off my hat to him. If one of the hon. members will rise, let us see him. Mr. Breytenbach is in very poor circumstances to-day, and this Government, as well as the former Government, and this House, as well as the former House have done much to redress the ravages of the war. Officials have been assisted, pensions have been granted, persons who were wounded have been aided, and I say it is a moral obligation to assist Mr. Breytenbach also. It is a debt of honour that Gen. Botha incurred on our behalf, and it is our duty, as honourable men, to pay the debt of honour. I am sorry that the hon. member for Standerton (Gen. Smuts) is not here at the moment, because I should like to appeal to him as he probably, as a general, got a part of the £3,000 for his commando. I appeal to all members who fought with us to support me, also to those members who were prevented from fighting, and to those who fought against the Boers, because I say Mr. Breytenbach’s act was that of a sportsman, and we must also act as sportsmen, and let him get his money back. There is no doubt that the money was borrowed, because Gen. Emmet signed a declaration in that respect which is here before the House. It is in the hands of the Clerk or Mr. Speaker. He says he counted the money and ex-State Secretary Reitz and others still alive witnessed it. I was also a witness. I do not know Mr. Breytenbach personally, and have never met him since that time, when I heard about his noble act. That is why I move the resolution.

seconded.

I do not suppose that anybody in the House doubts that the money referred to in the motion was advanced. The mover referred to the old song: “We’ve got the ships, we’ve got the men, we’ve got the money too,” but he did not add the words: “We don’t want to fight, but, by jingo, if we do.” I will move, as a slight amendment—

It is nothing new for me to say when motions of this kind are made, that Government should not pay out State moneys readily without first reporting the matter to the House. I have been answered by Ministers who explain that because they say they will go into the matter very carefully, or because they accept a motion it did not follow that the recommendation contained in the motion would necessarily be acted upon. I do not think public money should be paid away without the House being placed in possession of the whole of the facts.

seconded.

On the understanding that the Government is in no way bound in accepting the amendment, I am prepared to do so on behalf of the Minister of Finance.

I am prepared to accept the amendment. However great my respect for the Government is, Mr. Breytenbach has, I think, a still better chance if the amendment is passed.

Amendment put and agreed to.

Motion, as amended, put and agreed to, viz.—